We'll call the October 8th DRC meeting to order. We'll start with roll call. Community development is present. Please. Yeah. Lieutenant Jason Orin, public works, Dale Smith, fire, Jeremy Holderfield, and building John Hansen. All right. First two items on the agenda
is the same project. It's the 10:30 San Piper Street future land use and reszoning and air is the project manager. Good morning everyone. So this is a future land use and reszoning for 10:30 East Sanpiper Street. Um the applicant wants to reszone the property from
transitional to residential country estate and uh change the future land use from in progress to residential very low suburban so that they could um in the future put be able to um apply for a special exception for an accessory
dwelling unit on the property. Uh um staff is available for further comments question. All right. Any questions for me? Does not appear the applicants here. But any questions in regards to this? All right. Community development has nothing further other than what air was talking
about. Police. Any questions or comments? Anything additional? No, I have no questions. All right. Public works. No comments. Fired. No comments. Thank you. And building. All right. Everything. Thank you. All right. Thank you. All right. Next item on the agenda is the construction site plan for Spring Haven, formerly
known as Chandler Hills. This is the first submitt. I'm the project manager. Uh applicants in attendance this morning. Uh you received comments from DRC. Is there anything you would like to discuss before the DRC? If so, you could come we can get you on
the record. Yeah. Uh Dane Hamilton, Ashton Woods, 1064 Greenwood Boulevard, Lake Mary, Florida. Um I think overall um our primary concern I think is the sewer
capacity and I know Luke class has been or can I see Vlad's here? So if there's if there's any other if there's any update from that perspective that's really my my primary concern but um if you have any questions for for me or if I can't answer them I'll get back with Luke and we can talk about it. So right
I know public works is here and and Vlad is here as well. Good morning everyone. Simonoski, city engineer, public works director. Uh we talked about in one of the meetings earlier about extending the sidewalk
along Kelly Park from the frontage of the property to the corner there, right? Including the crosswalk at the traffic light. So it will make it safe for kids that actually go through that route and also for the other developments that coming on the west side of that to be
able to safely go to the school. Was that updated on the plans? I haven't looked at that. Dale, was was the sidewalk updated on the plans? The sidewalk in the front? I think it was like about 330 ft roughly.
Um I believe where we landed on this. Um, Bobby, if you could flip to the uh the overall site plan. I'm definitely trying. We're having some technical difficulties, but um there's a connection to the subdivision. Um that's it's just south
of the high school, but it's east of our property. Um it's where the lift station is proposed. There's actually an existing tie-in point over there which would give um students pedestrian access all the way via sidewalks to the high school in lie
of putting in any kind of sidewalk on Kelly Park Road. Um yeah, this will work. So you can see Oh, that's all for that. That's all right. Luke, we were just talking about the sidewalk. Sound like 441 shut down.
The sidewalk off the ceiling frontage, the main entrance to the Jason. They're kind of one and the same, right? So, we took the culdeac to keep the access through Estates. So, because that goes through and goes up to Park School
because there's no sidewalk on Jason. Well, there is side, not on the west side. It's but there's going to be a crosswalk. So, they're going to have to go I think on the east side and then cross there, right? How would they come back down to the school? Like right now, there's existing sidewalks through
right in front of the school. I think there's a just south of the school. There's no sidewalks going to the school. I'm pretty sure there is a sidewalk. I think we've looked it up. I don't think so. At least on one side there is a sidewalk on the east side
and I think it's on the east side correct. Yeah, on the west side where adjacent to the school there's no there's no sidewalk. No one is that basically the same sidewalk. Kids they live on the east side of Jason like the mobile home park there. I can't remember the name
and there's also other subdivisions. We have extended that sidewalk a few years ago. See this right for for these developments here. Mhm. So they utilized that sidewalk in front of the nursery. Mhm. Well, this is probably an old
April 2025, but there's no Oh, okay. This This is on the other side. Okay. So, there should be a sidewalk, Bobby. If you go down on Jason to the east, just to the east, there should be a sidewalk there, right?
So, they will require basically a crosswalk here. But, but here's the problem. So, on Kelly Park, there's not rightway there right now. So like we're dedicating right away to the east of us at the corner. They haven't dedicated right away
this um under site. You see I'm there is still right away. There's just no curb. I think the I don't think there's enough because we're dedicating 15 ft. So they're not you see what I'm saying?
Like there's no room to build it right now which is why we took the access. Can we go to the public? Like in my head, keeping the kids off of Kelly Park where there's not enough rightway to build the sidewalk or and there is no sidewalk or on the west side
of Jason Dweller where there's no sidewalk. Keeping the kids off those roads and walking through the neighborhood to Orchard the States and then you just turn to the north. That's to me that's a lot safer for the kids. Well, but that's a huge subdivision. So
basically all the other ones that will be coming uh from let's say Oaks or Mhm. uh the one Chandler Oaks that's going to be on the west side of this development. Mhm. They're going to have no option but to go through the subdivision as well. So
if you zoom in that that section like this section here I think eventually everyone's building the sidewalks with the rightway dedication they're providing and eventually you'll have a sidewalk but in the interim Yeah. So, we're talking about from this drive,
right? Mhm. Basically in front of the wooded area. I I think there's sufficient right away there too. Look at the corner right there at Kelly Park and Jason Dwelli. There's not even four feet. You can't even cut that corner. You see what I'm saying?
There's just until there's a curve. There's no room. No. Like look at the corner. It's like the curve and the the property line until they give their rightway dedication. I don't see how you could even really build a sidewalk there. And same thing, they're going to have to
give right away on Jason Dwelli, I think. I mean, you might have room on Jason Dwelli, but you definitely don't have it on Kelly Park. That's why everyone everyone in the developments the whole way down has been given right away. And we're even doing the trail the city wants. It's a 10 foot
trail. We're we're building the trail as part of the development. There's definitely not room to build 10 foot trail. I mean, I don't we can measure that, but I think it's like three feet. It doesn't even meet ADA standards or any city standards.
Luke, how are you bringing them, you know, through the subdivision? Because that what's called Chandler Oaks Road is actually a private ingress and egress easement. It's not dedicated to the public. It's actually a private tract. It's not an easement. It's a track that's owned by that gets you to what? The subdivision.
But then are you going to go from the subdivision directly into the school property there? It goes from our subdivision. We're maintaining that emergency access through Orchard Estates through the private track that then connects to the public rideway and then the kids can walk right to the school. There's all sidewalks from
Orchard Estates to just the north north of Orchard. Oh, let's So they could walk through Orchard Estates because it's a it's a it's a track. Okay. with the sidewalk and then it's public right away. So to me that keeps the kids a lot
safer, keeps them off Kelly Park Road and off Jason Dwelli. We could try to build something but it doesn't to me it doesn't look like there's enough room. Yeah, but that track I mean you're going to have a street lights there is you're going to have period of time that
you're right. I think there's going to be an in walk in the dark and I don't know how safe is that area. I mean, it may be safer from the ours they wouldn't walk in the dark from the traffic perspective. But what do you say? I'm saying with our situation that we currently have designed, they don't walk in the dark.
The neighborhood's light uh lit with street lights. Um Spring Haven will be Orchard Estates is already lit and the school is right there. So, it's going to be like back here, right? This the
state currently has a the 15 foot track that they use for their emergency access that is Chandler Road, right? We're maintaining that connection through there to the public rideway and
then they can go up and walk to the school. So they're they're staying they would be on our public rideways. They'd go on this track, this this track that Orchard States and Spring Haven have the rights to public rideway which is the White Dalia
Drive. But all this is all lit. It has lighting and it has sidewalk. So to me it provides better access. Now I agree at the end of the day you want this temple trail to feed down. But until the two properties to the east of us until
they dedicate their rideway. I don't see how we're doing a 12oot trail. I'm sorry. There's a 12ft trail along Kelly Park. So the trail is on your side. Mhm. Yeah. It's a 30. So everyone's given everyone else has been given a 30 foot rideway dedication. So
we're doing a 30 foot rideaway dedication and 12 foot of trail that we're building. Okay. But so now we had any discussion with Is it one propert two? Yeah. Just to the east of us at the corner there's two
property owners. Not to my knowledge. Yeah. Maybe what we could do is have a meeting public works and and planning and Let's see if we can work something out with a dedication on that. In that case cuz we even talked about ideally we can extend it down.
We dedicated we have the a step out here to the east. We talked about potentially getting an easement to come down. But even through there, there's no sidewalk here. So no matter how we get there, to me it's better for them to go this way that has street lighting and public rideways where they have access to to
walk through right here. Yeah. you're introducing him now into into everybody on the west side will have to go through this subdivision and then go through the other subdivision and then go again back north. And I think that's an interim solution
that gets the kids in a public rideway with street lighting. I think at the end of the day this 12oot trail and the rideway dedication that they're going to end up having to do whenever they come in. We haven't received any applications for those two. No. Okay. But but every other development has had
a 30 foot rideway dedication and a 12oot trail. And so I I think it's worth exploring. Maybe you know between us and you we we get with them and see it's actually that dedication can be it's actually three parcels now that I'm
looking at it. Yeah, there's one small one and then there's a flag lot and then there's the corner piece. So, we don't we don't mind trying, but I don't I don't see how there's enough room to build a sidewalk there. Definitely not the 12 trail that you guys are looking for.
We can survey how close the roadway is to that property corner, but based on property appraisers, it looks like it's like 3 4 feet. Okay, let's Yeah, let's let's take another one. Yeah, because this is what we we kind of talked to OCPS about it as well, saying
we're going to maintain that access to and then we talked to the city council about it and said this is the access we're going to provide. We're setting it up for the future to have better school access, but until they develop kind of suck. All right. Does anybody have any
questions for the applicant? Any additional questions? Hey, uh Luke, just to verify the alleys that you've got, they're 14 foot wide and they're two ways. Correct. So, the the KPI standard, it's a 20 foot alley. Uh the track, it's a
private track. The city, but the pavement's 14. The pavement's 14 and then there's two 12 foot 12 in not 12 foot sorry 12 inch ribbon curves on each side. So it's 16 foot of pave material but it's 20 foot cleared. What is our
that's the KPI standard on an alleyway. So basically you're giving me 16 foot of fire truck 16 foot of pavement uh um 14 foot of asphalt and one foot on either side of concrete driven curve. They call it flush curb.
All right. I'm I'm gonna have to really review that on those alleys just to make sure. I'll get back with you on those, Luke. Okay. I'm pretty sure that's the KPI standard is the one we we followed, but we can we can That's fine. I just got to take a really good look at dive into that. I didn't
realize I saw the 20 foot alleyway markings on it and kind of threw me off on back with you on that. And I know I was trying to think about after our conversation this morning. There's one spot on the site plan. You can see it here on the right next to the 262 where an alley tees into another
alley. We could look at that and kind of where everything else an alley hits a public rideway either 55 or 60 foot wide. Okay. My other concern with this one was the spacing on
um the back side of 270, 273, 274, that whole area where the roadway goes away. It looks like there's like a a section of um green space. Is that what that is? Yeah. Green space in the front of the the houses. I mean, that's my access for my units.
So now, like, how are we getting to those properties from our our parking? Because I mean, if we're coming private alley, those are garages, correct? Um, yeah. Off the alley, they have garages. Yes. And then that's my problem with like I can't depend on a garage where a
car is parked. So, you want the road in the front? Yeah. So, I got to have some type of I mean, I don't know how far off it is from that view, but I gota have some type of sidewalk, some type of way to take a stretch. I can't, you know. Yeah. The idea was to run a from the front porches there'd be like a sidewalk
connectivity to to one of the public rideways, whether it goes to the Okay. Would that be to the east or to the south, but we we can draw in the um the sidewalk connections. Okay, that would be great. So, I can lease. All right. Thank you. Anything additional?
I'm gonna go back to that. So look, what was the thought of how the pe how the kids from Oaks which are on the north side there, right? Oaks at Kelly Park, I think it's called, where is there any plan where they going to cross to get through this subdivision
to get to the school? There's no crossing on Kelly Park right now. No midblock crossing. So right now they can't go to the So they're way too close to the school. So, I'm assuming they're not going to be blessed. No. So, they have to walk.
But that's their problem. That's not ours to fix for them. They they got approved. They have they build they did 30 foot Broadway dedications in a sidewalk in front of them. They can't go to the east either. They're in a much worse situation than we are. We at least have connectivity through public rideways to the school.
Um they have to drive their kids really. I mean, I guess their kids can walk, but I probably wouldn't trust my And right now we have nothing on the north side. They built a sidewalk in front of their phase one and three. Like they have
their sections, but they don't have anything to the east on the north. Yeah. Like I said, we'll meet offline and discuss it a little bit more. Public works in the applicant. It sounds like it's going to require a
little collaboration to come up with a solution. Typically the Orange County School. No, the only thing we asked them, we asked them if we could connect to the back because like we we saw that we were stopping on a roadway to the east here and then we saw their um parking was
back here. So, we asked if we can get a back connection and they're understandably so. They're very particular about um access points for their schools. They don't want multiple access points. So, they would not uh agree to have us do that. They said you have to access off off of
Jason. So, the school's going to give you a back gate. They will not. It has to be manate the day. And I and I that's understandable with school shootings and act all the things that happen at schools that you have to be concerned with anymore. Um I I
understand it. It stinks in this situation it'd be really nice to have a an access, you know, if we lived in a good world, but but we don't. Yeah. We have to go south to through channel and then go up.
Yeah. We we'll our kids will just walk through where that culde-sac is. There's that access to White Dalia and we go through there. Well, and that's what I was saying that access, you know, once you leave the subdivision, the access for those lots between the subdivision
and Jason Dwelli, that's not a public right of way in there. There's a roadway in there. Correct. It's their emergency access, but our subdivision has rights to that. No, but once you get past the subdivision, no, White Dalia is a public road. They're not going to go through it.
They're going to get into White Dalia. Oh, they're gonna get into White Dia before they get to Jason Dwell. Yes. And then the sidewalk, the sidewalk goes up from White Dalia up to the school, right? And that's where it stops. It doesn't go further to the north on Jason Dwell.
Okay. Because I think okay at the end of the day what you what's going to have to happen is a 30 foot dedication from those three properties along Kelly Park and some additional dedication along Jason Dwelli for some sidewalk
whenever those properties come in. Okay, let's just see. I think we have some of the survey information so I can send you some stuff. Here's what we looked at. Yeah, it is tight. And Luke, I'm about halfway through my review. I'll get you my comments by the
end of the week. Okay. And you know the easement issue we had on the last subdivision. You've got a lot of pipe that and these 55 foot rideways that are extremely close to the rideway and you know 6, eight, nine feet deep. Yeah. I think when we did these plans we
hadn't talked about that yet. So I can look at that as well for this. So, I like I said, I'll get you my comments by the end of the week. Okay, perfect. All right. Anything additional for the applicant? Any questions? All right. I did want to talk about the culde-sac.
I know that was one of the planning comment. Um and and it is not allowed in the KPI. We can make it a stub road because it is technically an emergency access to Orchard Estate. It's their secondary access orchard estates to Tigris Drive and White Dalia. We can
make it a stub road if you want because you still have vehicular access there. Our thought was for solid waste and everything else. It made more sense, but I I'm fine making it a step if you'd rather. Yeah, the code says that you can't have a culdeac unless it's basically no other
alternative like an environmental issue like wetlands or something there. That's kind of the intent behind that in the in the KPI code. Uh stub out comp plan kind of discourages the stubouts. Um
yeah, I don't know what the what the solution would be there. Let me draw some things up. Um other alternatives. Look at the KPI. Okay. We can look that. All right. Yeah. And that was the only plan to comment that in the sidewalk the school issue which we talked about that
already at the commission meeting. All right. Do you have any other questions, Luke? No, we didn't get any other comments. Okay. Yep. And public works will be by the end of the week. And then is DA doing the review? I don't know. Just any of the well any of the
utilities? Yes. Okay. All right. Community development has nothing further. Police anything additional public works. No other comments. Fire. No other comments. Thank you. Building. I don't have anything. Thank you. All right. Thank you.
All right. There are no other items uh on the agenda. uh discussion. I sent an email to the DRC about Senate Bill 1080 which requires us to for site plan or something having to either approval approval with conditions or denial
within 120 days that was passed by the state legislature. So we have to kind of be mindful of our review times on these projects going forward. Um any other items for discussion? Well, that basically puts us on the same
time schedule as the water management district and D with reviewing their applications. Okay. All right. Now, with theirs, if you have questions or an incomplete application, that tolls the time till they get back with you. I assume it's the same with this.
I would assume so. Um, so basically to me I think and we can get a clarification from the legal department but yeah by the time you issue the comments and they respond to 120 days it's total that's what it seems to me like it is.
I don't think I don't believe it stops. I mean I think once it starts that's it. Uhhuh. Whether it's going back and forth back and forth that time runs. Yeah. So on the Senate on the new Senate bill. So in other words, if you're still
negotiating comments and 120 days hit, so what it's going to force us to do is then just to deny the application, deny the permit. So they then have to start over which doesn't make any sense because if or allow it and then with
changes to be made that's going to be probably be the way this is going to have to go because if you deny it then the it's going to hit the fan. Yeah. Because if the denial has to be based on you know reasons per the code and the comp plan you know that you're
not consistent with that or you know that type of stuff. So, do we inter do we approve it with some sort of written agreement that says we're going to address these things outside of the permitting process? I mean, maybe approve with conditions or, you know, here's your conditions of
approval that you have to satisfy. I don't know. I mean, we can reach out and get Cliff to weigh in on it and see how that works. But, uh, it's definitely, uh, you know, with Senate Bill 180, everything's burdensome and overreached now. And then Senate Bill 1080 where
where we have a shot clock basically to where we have to get everything done and then with you know cell towers we got a cell tower coming in and I think our code plus federal law requires a 60-day approval period on that as well. So it's uh yeah it's getting uh
so in other words if I approve Luke's project and there's some things we haven't agreed upon but I make it a condition of the permit that either forces him to do those things because it's the condition of the permit or then he's gonna have to come in and modify his
permit. Seems like a lot of extra work. Yeah. Yeah. It's approval. I think it said approval. Approval with conditions or denial was what it said. Yeah. Within 120 days, which is, you know, what? Four months.
[Laughter] We didn't either. The way the way some of these things are worded is ridiculous. Like it's like they didn't ask for anybody else. One guy's making a phone. They can say this. Yeah. It doesn't help the developer.
Definitely you guys, but I don't know that it actually helps the developer. I think you're going to get denied. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if you deny something to possibly face litigation and things like
that, too, you know. So, conditions really ask a Yeah. Because you could have 30 conditions of approval and and then we can charge you for submitting the plan amendment. I don't think it helps. Doesn't
definitely helps. Yeah, because and if it's a ma a major development plan or something, we have the 120 has to be public hearings. So that takes up two months because of the scheduling of the hearings and we might be taking
things forward with a bunch of conditions of approval. Oh, do the public meetings happen as well? I think so. I think it's the public meetings as well. Yeah. It's It's going to be
interesting. Yeah. All right. Anything else? Other than that, it's Wednesday, right? All right. We're journed.