call the workshop on Clear Lake landings to order. It's August 11th. Commissioner Smith, you give us the prayer and the pledge, please, sir. Our father, we thank you now for this
opportunity to be servants of this city. We thank you God for all those present today. We ask father that you bring together a meeting of the minds so God that we may come to a resolve the solution to the problem that exists and we ask for all your blessing in our son Jesus name. Amen.
>> Amen. I allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
>> All right, we get started. I need to I don't even have the quorum statement with me. So, we'll just hopefully we will keep everybody be cordial. Vlad, why won't you come on down? And I know Vlad and his team have put together a lot of work. Got Greg in the
back who helped us put this the you know, at least the the option one together for us. And so he's here for any technical questions as far as the um the actual setup of the pump station and
and irrigation. So, go ahead. Take it up. turn. Glad your mic isn't on. >> Oh, okay. Sorry about that. So uh this workshop is basically a followup of the meeting the update to the problem
that uh we presented at a city council meeting on July 16th. So for some of you they were not here they were not present that you don't have the information what the update was. I'm going to give a brief introduction to some history of the problem and what was presented as an
update as option one and then we'll go to to an alternative solution that uh we may want to take a look into. So basically uh the historic issues in brief as you
can see on the photo clear water lake is a closed basin lake located in the city of Apakka just west of Cam Weaver where you can see that it just to the east of Mud Lake. Um, this lake has been experiencing high water levels, higher water levels in the recent years,
adversely affecting the residents of Clear Lake Landing and Clear Lake Estates, which is to the north. The lake is private and owned by four separate entities, which is Clear Lake Landing, AJ. This is the property, the development to the south of the lake.
Uh, Clear Lake Estates LLC, which is the development to the north, more like a northeast of the lake. Aven Point Community Association, which is the property, the development to the west and to the northwest, and uh Miss Sander
Gay Last, who lives on the east side right next to Binian Road. Um it was determined that irrigation water inflow along with excessive rainfall caused the rise of the lakes's water level. So the immediate response in 2003, so to
assist the adversely affected properties in 2003, the city permitted and executed emergency pumping of the lake and the emergency pumping was deployed in February of 2023 and finished in April of the same year. During the three-month
operations, the lake's water level was reduced by 3.4 4 ft and the total cost of the pumping was $194,50. So different long-term alternative solutions were considered
uh following the uh the emergency pumping and three options were actually considered. Option one was to reduce the rec to re recycle the lake surface water as irrigation source. Option two was to pump the surface water to the Northshore
recon water treatment plant and option three was to repeat temporary pumping whenever needed. Eventually option one was selected as best alternative due to less stress on the city's reclaimed water system. Uh Clear Lake Lending Away owns this system
and uh St. John's River Water Management District and the state of Florida Drove of this solution. So following the temporary pumping operation as I stated earlier the city contracted the Balmoral group to design and permit a long-term solution for this
problem to assist the affected communities. Uh the long-term solution consists of construction of alternative water supply irrigation pump station for clear for clear lake landing and disconnection of this residential development municipal reclaim water
system. The project design started in April of 2024 for the cost of $68,900 and has been completed and permitted with the water management district as a consumptive use permit in January 2025. The permit is issued to clear lake
landing. Uh the normal water level of clear water of clear water lake is at elevation of 65 ft and the district permit allows surface water withdrawal for irrigation down to elevation of 63 feet which is bring the lake the surface water 2 ft down. The current lake
elevation is 69.58 ft. This was taken on Friday. I'm sorry this was Yes. And this is approximately 3.4 4 in from the 69.3 ft that was measured on July 1st. So as you
can see in two weeks period between July 1st and July 16 when we had the first uh council meeting the surface water level we had some rain went up to approximately about five 5.5 ft and then since that point in the
following three weeks came down approximately 2 in to uh now 3.4 4 in above the 69.3 ft. So we also looked at the funding sources for option one at the council meeting on
the July 16th and the construction cost estimate is approximately $456,000 397.2,000 for construction and another 59.6,000 6,000 in 15% contingency that resulted
in approximately $3,000 per household and we're talking only about Clear Lake Lending Community. We have not considered the other two uh Clear Clear Lake estates and the Aven Point. So basically Avian Point already uh
deposited $60,000 in support services and city will is willing to provide another $60,000 in support services or in kind services for this project which remains the AO Clear Lake lending to
uh have a cost of approximately $336,000 which includes also the 15% contingency. This approximately equals to about $2,400 per household as this subdivision, this development has 142
homes. The city expenses to date as we reported at the same council meeting uh between the emergency pumping and the design of the pump station and the entire irrigation system is $263,000. So the next slide shows the basin
evaluation. Basically I have put two maps here. The one to the left you can see the pre-development basin. So everything colored in magenta or reddish color shows where how the drainage basin looked before any of the three
developments happened here. And this is 2004 2005. So Clear Lake Estates was the first that was constructed approximately 2004 2005. Then in 2015 uh Clear Lake landing on the south side. Okay. And uh
2019 and 2020 Aven Point started construction. So when you look at that Aven Point basically had 47 acres of the basin, Clear Lake estates 12 acres and Clear Lake Landing about 71 acres.
The slide the uh map to the right shows the post-development basin right after all of these three developments were built. So as you can see Aven Point went from 47 acres to 36 acres actually from
32% of the overall to about 24% of the overall uh contribution to the basin. And on top of it, they provided uh two dry retention ponds along the west side and along the northwest side abuing the
lake. Uh Clear Lake Estates actually went almost doubled the contribution from 12 acres since pre-development to pos to 23 acres and Clear Lake Lending went from 71 acres contribution to 85. And you can
clearly see that it's basically a combination of the red and the blue as the blue being uh what was developed after these three the properties were completely developed. So
the option one was the one that was presented as an update at the council meeting on July 6 the 16th. Uh we looked I believe commissioner me as for maybe to look for different alternatives. We looked at option two
uh that will potentially bring which was already considered in the in the original evaluation of the of the solution. This will actually propose a pump station with easement uh somewhere on the near the uh
northwest side of the of the lake which is inside the clear lake landing development and you can see that on the map. So basically option two proposes it's called the transfer surface water to Northshore reclaim water treatment plant
which you can see there's the facility to the in the uh lower left corner. This is owned by the city and basically this solution is to divert and pump about 19.2 million gallons a year from clear water lake to city own northshore
reclaim water treatment plant. This alternative will require construction of a pump station on a private property and designation of public easement which is shown on the map. Surface water can be stored in two existing 10 million gallon reservoirs that you can see also on the
map or treated for public access reuse. Uh the water management district, St. John's River Water Management District, will need to review if this design is actually permissible and if acceptable will most likely result in the city having to revise its consumptive use
permit. The age will bear the construction cost of this system which is estimated at around $1 million. So on the next slide I'm going to show some calculations that we have done between
so you can compare between option one and option two and this cost analysis uh of option one includes only clear lake lending and we looked at a five-year option and the 10-year option with a monthly payments for each of the
household of this of the development which consists of4 42 homes. So if we look at the capital financing cost, I know I said $336,000, but the estimate is let's say at about $350,000
loan with fiveyear at approximately 6% right now. That will be about $47.65 monthly per household. The operations and maintenance cost will be at about $18.14
a month. and the removal of the city reclaim water services with the fiscal year 26 2026 rates. It's basically saving of $85.47 per household. For this year, the numbers are $74, but effective October
1st, our average approximation is uh at about $85.47. This will result in a monthly saving for the household of $19.68. So approximately $20 a month saving if option one is selected over a five-year
payment. The 10 year is pretty much the same model that will result in a monthly estimate uh saving per household of about $40. So option two
pretty much presents um taking the water from the lake over to the Northshore reclaim water treatment plant and I also provided a fiveyear and a 10-year estimates and this is also for clear lake lending only. So the capital
financing cost if we look at a 5year it's 6% $1 million total it's $136.15 right there will be no operational and maintenance cost and there will be no removal of the city reclaim water
system. So, so the total estimated monthly cost per homeowner will be total $136.15. Uh the 10 year will result in about $78.18. Also considering the 10 year of the 6%. So this means that the city as we stated
will require an easement. So the station can be placed in an easement and the operation and maintenance cost will be uh the responsibility of the city and the residents will continue to receive reclin.
So the option two considers clear lake lending and clear lake estates together. Right. So, Clear Lake Estates consists of 47 homes and combined with the Clear Lake Lending that will be total of $189 homes.
Uh, the 5-year option will result in a 102 point $102.29 and the 10-year option will result in a 58.74 a month per household. And again, the residents will continue
to receive reclaim water and they will be charged for that reclaimed water. So in comparison, if I go back to the first one, if Clear Lake Lending goes alone, there will be 136.15 over 5 years. If the Clear Lake Lending and
Clear Lake Estates come together, there will be 102.29. And for the 10 year will be 78.18 versus the 58.74. And eventually the third scenario is to
include aven point and how was this calculated to the two other developments. uh I calculated the 24% of the contribution to the drainage basin which resulted in approximately
uh I believe 55 homes uh to equal 234 homes total between the three developments. So again the five-year option will result in $82.62 a month per homeowner or household and
the 10ear will result in 47.44 44 per home or household. And that's the three different scenarios with the option two that we're bringing to you uh this evening.
Um in comparison to the option one that was presented on the July 16th council meeting. >> Any questions for Vlad? Were insurance costs calculated for this in any way
under operation and maintenance costs? Anything along those lines? So, I have you because you're estimating around $31,000 in maintenance costs per year for option one. >> For option one. Okay. If I go back there, there was uh $18.14
per household >> times 142 times 12. So, $31,000 per year. I did the math. Just trust me. >> Yes. Okay. >> Just trust me on that one. >> Yes. >> So, >> you feel that that's a accurate cost for maintenance per year?
>> This is the cost that was provided. We reached out to uh uh Mr. Gregory Sardell who is the engineer of Balmoral. >> Okay. >> Uh who designed the system and these are the information this is the information we got from you. >> Okay. And then were there any insurance
costs built into this estimate at all? No insurance though. >> So insurance like risk insurance, things of that nature, insurance should anything happen to it, stuff like that. >> So the answer is no.
>> Greg, >> got it. >> Thank you. >> Greg, you didn't come down. >> Thanks. >> Greg for us. >> He's our I I didn't see Greg. Yeah, >> it's the first time I've ever
>> he was here last time. >> Oh, I don't know why. >> Yeah, I'm Greg Sid out with the Balmoral Group. Uh, our business is located 165 Lincoln Avenue, Winter Park, Florida, and I'm the engineer of record on the uh consumptive use permit. And I put
together the estimate to which you are speaking. Um, it's it's the overall maintenance estimate is what it is at this point. just kind of a maintenance estimate, but I did not specifically look at was there an insurance cost associated with the insurance on the
system. It was more of, you know, parts are going to break. You don't really cover those with insurance. So, it's more of a liability. It was more of a what's the lifetime of these parts and you're going to have to replace those. So, I kind of added a factor in there to the maintenance cost assuming that they're going to, you know, save up
money. So, if the pump goes out, for example, they can buy a new pump. there's warranty on certain materials, you know, if they break before that. So, there's not really a life cycle cost for every single one, but it was just kind of a good engineer estimate based on um, you know, past experience with these
systems. >> Okay, understood. Thank you for that. And thank you for being here tonight as well. For the consumptive use permit itself, how difficult or not difficult is it to, I guess, adjust it if we were to pump this directly into our system? >> Um, the issue is your discharge
location. So, since right now you're just you're basically just pumping the water back into the um yards and then that's going into the groundwater, but now you're going to pump it over to Lake Apakka Basin. So, if you're going to do this in an emergency situation, it then
becomes what's the effect on the water quality. And so, that's what they that when they issue those emergency permits, that's something they take in that's one of the um factors that they take into account. So when you say what would the difficulty be it's almost a bit going back to square one because it's a
different use of the water right and it's >> but if we introduce it to like our system how this option two is kind of describing it to where it's pumped into our facility so not into like a pocket it's pumped into our facility
just >> we've got to treat it we got to treat it just like it's >> right there correct correct so there's going to be additional treatment there Right. We by moving this water the the only option that we have there is to go into the
existing wet well that is technically collecting water from Lake Apka. There's a sloo gate that we can isolate and then pump that water into the two dry ponds that actually have a filter system. But even after that there's has
to be some chlorination in order to >> reintroduce it back >> put it back into the public access. But so that doesn't specific to the consumptive use permit. How does that affect how does that affect our consumptive use permit? How is that process? How easy or difficult would it
be to adjust it? >> Well, it will affect it because it will require a modification of the overall uh um reclamation water facility permit, right? All these reclaimed water plants are in a way tied to the wastewater treatment plant. So they're all on the
same permit. So any changes to the system overall any introduction introduction let's say of surface water or any other water that will come into the system will require modification of the permit. >> Would it be similar educate me on this please similar to
like adding a neighborhood? If we added a new neighborhood somewhere would we have to adjust our consumptive use permit to take them into account if we're taking some water from them or >> No. No. No. Because this is the recline water. We're going to be introducing to that neighborhood the reclaim water that
is already treated. Right? Only if you only we introduce a new source of reclaim water. In that case we will require we will be required to modify the permit. >> Yeah. So the permit we obtained is
specifically for irrigation from the lake into the subdivision. And so it's not draw it's it's an irrigation permit. Right. basically and it so instead of getting your irrigation through the reclaimed water, we got a surface water
u consumptive use permit which is that's something that the water management districts are promoting because it helps save the groundwater. So that's why it was you know that was one of the things that assisted us with this is they like the idea of us using surface water for irrigation and then that also that reclaimed water could then be used
elsewhere to offset groundwater use. So, so we go back to the the original we had we brought Greg on board to do the, you know, the initial workup was that we were going to take the system on which that was our initial goal was for us the
city to take on the pump station. What we found out is because now if it's a city control pump station, then we have to go through the regulatory process including chlorination and all that. So the reason we've now have to put it to the HOA and they have to control it is
because if if it goes back >> Yeah. This is essentially a golf course irrigation permit, right? So this is what golf courses do. They pump out a lake to irrigate the golf course. So it's private water from their ponds going onto their private property. So since it was a homeowners association,
there's a lot of Department of Environmental Protection regulations that because it's treated like a golf course system that don't have to be met that normally would be and would um increase the cost of doing this. So for example, the reuse system um those have
to be uh the water has to be tested and those systems have to be clean before you can turn them on. This one we're just pumping out a lake. We just turn it on. The assumption is the lake water's clean, right? But we're separating it completely from the existing reuse. We have these locations where we're
actually severing the pipe and putting no no pipe back and then if we need to reconnect because of a long drought, then they would put the pipe back in and they'd have to go back to D to get that permit and we would have to drain and clean the system. >> Okay.
So, >> I try to keep my answers short. Sorry. >> Say that again. >> I try to keep my answers short. So, >> no, it's it's helpful. Uh when was the last time we adjusted or revised our conceptive use permit? >> Uh the permit I believe 20122
>> and the next due is it's typically every five years. So it's going to be most likely uh near the end of July of 2027. >> Okay. And then and this is slightly off topic but it's not Border Lake. If we move forward with that pumping on that
lake, we would have to adjust our consumptive use permit. >> Well, it's related to the overall again, this system will not be directly connected to the consumptive use permit. It's connected to the um reclamation water facility, right? So, it's for the
waste water and the reclaimed water. Now in effect if you're introducing any kind of changes to the system they may affect the consumptive use permit if it's coming from let's say uh near wiky river that is protected area right
in this case probably it won't affect the the consumptive use permit it will only affect the water reclamation facility >> but but border border lake will we have to get a adjust a revised consumptive use permit for that project Probably >> probably
>> probably for the water reccomission >> but we'll also have to treat that water that'll have to be treated with chlorine. >> I understand we'll have to have its own little plant out there basically not not a mass but a plant. >> Yep. >> I understand. >> Yes. And and that system will have a completely different type of treatment. It will have a more sophisticated
filtration >> this filtration that will have to bring it to a certain Yes. >> So then the this lake itself is it springfed at all? Do we know anything about that? >> I don't know if it's springfed. All we know is it's a closed drainage basin.
So, basically what >> I showed on one of the previous slides. Let me see if I can go back. >> You You don't know, Greg, do you? >> You have any idea? >> I Yes. I I did not specifically study it, but you know, I would just say the fact that it holds water for such a long
time. there's ground water coming into it from somewhere whether it's coming from the Florida aquifer or just from the surficial aquifer. It it does have some type of groundwater source feeding it. Okay. I couldn't tell you specifically which one. >> Understood. Okay. Yeah. And then my question was just leading then to just
the cleanliness of the water itself. If we're going to be spraying it on lawns where kids are playing, I would say golf courses are different than residential lawns. So I just want to make sure if you can speak to that in that process. Um well it is called clear water lake
right u but we did not do any uh water uh quality testing on it and so the assumption is that's u that I'm working under was that the local um the city it's a private lake so is so I'm assuming if there water quality issues
we would that would be known right that it's hey we're having these issues issues down there but usually you know with the lakes themselves uh clarity is a big factor, right? And and is it good or bad water quality, but then there's also um I can tell you that
I irrigate from my lake at my yard and I don't have to put any fertilizer on it, right? Because there's enough fertilizer in the water already. So I don't, you know, this was near an orange grove for years. How much should they fertilize in the orange grove? How much nitrogen and phosphorus is in there? But those aren't
really harmful, if you will, right? So I don't Is there arsenic? I have no idea. Right. And is is there things like that in the water? I assume there's not. It was tested when the developments were going on. >> Have we tested Do we have any tests on file in the recent years that we can at least point to in any capacity?
>> No, I I haven't encountered any any >> So that may be beneficial to just to kind of check that off and make sure that that's being tested in some capacity. So although it is Clear Water Lake being out there, it's >> not that clear in its current form. So, just want to make sure that's being
addressed in some capacity. Um, I think that's my questions for now. I appreciate it. Thank you. >> Anybody else with any questions? >> Well, my my question is >> option one appeared to be cheaper
at the $336,000 as opposed to option two that came up to a million dollars. >> Correct. So >> yeah because the the again the capital
cost is less than than including piping off almost more than quarter of a mile >> right so the financial impact on the homeowners is less with option one than it is option two did I look at that
correct? >> Yes. Well, yes. With option one, at five year loan, they will have approximately 20 $20 a month in their pocket savings, right? With 10 years, it will be probably 40. >> And again, this is only for fiscal year
26 rates. >> 27 there will be another 15.5% probably saving on top of it. And as we propose the new rates going into 28 and 29 will be additional 3.5 for those two
additional years. So in general overall the cost of providing services will increase and option one will definitely provide more saving in that regard. >> All right >> then what we are presenting here. >> All right. So we talked about the cost
per homeowner. So where would the initial funding come from? the initial funding as I stated about 336,000 will come from the HOA. So, so this is calculating basically a loan of $350,000.
That's what I'm showing on that table in option one. >> So, so option one, the home HOA will have to come up to $336,000. >> And with option two, >> the homeowners have got to come up with a million dollars >> with a million dollars. Correct. >> Correct. because it's a longer distance.
There's more equipment and yeah, it's the just the capital cost is definitely higher. >> Yes. And you know, I just I do want to add a comment so that there's a clear understanding here is that um neither of
these options, if we get a really bad storm, a very bad hurricane that dumps 25 inches of rain, there's still going to be flooding in those houses, right? Because those pumps aren't going to be designed to handle that much rain. So, it's not this isn't going to fix
completely eliminate the possibility of flooding. you know, these are the options that we look at. And with the irrigation rate, it's more of the neighborhood has control about how much water they take out. And again, with this pump system, it's, you know, in anticipation of a hurricane, you would start pumping or something like that.
But it's, you know, it's going to have to be monitored and um um controlled, if you will, but it just the location in those closed basins. And you know, it's a common problem here. >> I appreciate that clarity. I guess that creates a new issue or I guess the the real dynamic between option one and
option two. Option one keeps all the water within the same basin. Option two removes it from that basin. Well, option one is removing the reuse water. So, right now the reuse is coming into the basin. So we're we're kind of taking if you looked at the irrigation rates, it's kind of the amount of water going in the
basin is now going to be reduced by double the current irrigation rate because the current reuse water that everyone uses in that basin and this is the premise of this work was that that's water being introduced into the basin. Right. So >> but it's not the whole it's not the
whole entirety of each neighborhood though that is in the new basin. >> Correct. It's just it's just for this particular >> when you got when when the uh calculations the estimates were done for the water that was being introduced was it calculating the new water basin where
it's a few homes in the north neighborhoods and a few homes in the south neighborhoods or was it all neighborhood all neighborhood? >> Yeah. Can you I I didn't >> So there's because and I'm looking at this map and I don't know how to use the correct terminology or vernacular for for this. >> Yeah. So that's that's surface water
runoff and I was strictly dealing with the irrigation rates in the neighborhood. >> Right. So you you calculated the entire neighborhood when you were taking into account because I want to say it was like 50 million gallons or 58 million may have been the number >> you were calculating the entire neighborhood. >> Yeah, it's based on the 142 homes being
converted from the reuse to the lake surface water. But not all in this map, not all 142 homes are currently contributing to the additional water to the basin through irrigation. Well, the it's the water itself, most a lot of
irrigation water is gone from evapo transpiration, but a good portion goes into the ground as well. And so that irrigation water is seeping into the lakes through the ground. >> So I understand that. Yeah. >> But only in the orange section. >> Uh >> plus the blue. >> Yeah. The blue the blue is the post
development. So >> So blue and orange >> blue and orange is actually what's happening now. >> Yeah. The assumption is everything is sloping down towards the lake. There wasn't a detailed study with wells to find out where the high point of the
groundwater was, right? But you it kind of follows the main ground contours. So the estimation is that you know yes all the water in the neighborhood would seep down those slopes and down into but there was not a detailed study for that as part of this. >> Okay understood. Thank you.
>> Let me ask you one more question. About I guess 20 ft outside of the entrance to Clear Lakes Landings between the road and the sidewalk there is some kind of a well. What is that?
Clear Lake Landing to the south entrance or to the one on uh Binyan of Bignyan. The >> the one off Bin across from the mud lake or whatever you call it. >> I'm not aware. >> Yeah, I'm not aware of any uh wells
there. There is a uh a valve there for the reuse system. That's a pretty large valve. But as far as any actual um you know wells that I'm I'm not aware of uh anything associated with the irrigation system that currently >> Well, I went and took a picture.
>> Yeah. >> So, so right outside of the entrance there's this great >> correct that's branching. And then there's this concrete box that goes down and then there's a car that comes into that concrete box.
>> Yeah. So that's probably collecting water from the road >> and going where any other questions from this side? >> Just have a quick question. So, is there any option that will permanently assist if there's any type of to stop the flooding?
>> Again, is cost, right? It's there's always an option, right? >> And it's it's cost and its impacts. But the issue what what what we refer to in in in drainage when you have a closed basin is we refer to what we call the over topping elevation. So somewhere
that if it fills up to a certain point, the water can flow out the side and go downhill somewhere. And so in this case, the over topping elevation is basically where your pump system is, right? For this way, but then also, you know, over into the other lakes, you have to find
the um low point. So I didn't do a a drainage analysis for this basin. Um so I'm not aware it would be. So that that overall solution is a bit hamstrung by our storm water rules, right? So if we if we we these
days we try and design in the emergency overflow, but there's no rule that requires you to do that, right? We're required to meet the FEMA regulations, the water management district regulations, and we're showing no adverse impacts to the other properties.
So that's what we're required to do. the emergency planning and the resiliency that you're talking about, which is what your question is. That's what's come up currently because the storm events are a lot are more than we designed for. So, you know, that's the legislature coming up with the rules and I understand there
was a new rule on that that doesn't allow the local agencies to put forth any more restrictive criteria than the state has. And so, that's something I just heard about. I'm not 100% sure on that, but but that's something as the engineers that we would have to look at.
So to answer your question, it would require a study recommendations. A lot of the stuff you're seeing here, it would be kind of going back to the drawing board and looking how do we make that happen? And then how do we make it happen without adversely impacting the other neighbors downstream? Right? That
that's the problem about water is if you move it somewhere, there's someone downstream that's flooding, right? Otherwise otherwise you wouldn't need a permit from the water management district to do this, right? That's kind of that's the rules and the regulations um require that. And by the way, drainage is my expertise. Irrigation is
something I've done as well. >> Commission. >> No, I'm kind of just getting a whole education here. >> Yes, that's a lot. >> Believe it or not, a whole education here. >> Yeah, I think it's just important to kind of hear from the homeowners and kind of what
>> what they're thinking. I mean, >> that's the entrance. You can see Thank you. How would >> that's been there a while too. Yeah, that's his story, >> right? >> Okay.
>> Okay. [Music] >> Say it's doing what? >> I I >> looked down inside. I didn't see a pump. >> I'm sorry. What was that? They said it was I couldn't hear what you're It was >> Wait, listen. We need to be at the Okay.
Are we done with question? We if that we can anybody wants to speak on the matter we come on up and we'll >> I need the cheat sheet >> real quick. Real quick. Mayor, uh Vlad, do you want to show Commissioners Anderson and Commissioner Vasquez this map real quick? Yes,
>> please. >> Okay. >> This is clear. >> You come right down here. This is a I'm not the only one. service to this.
>> I'm sorry. That's the subdivision across from Clear Lake. >> How big is that? This is connected to this. Greg, how big is Clear Lake? Remember how many acres? >> 30 39.
>> Yeah, that sounds about right. >> I trust you, right? >> I think it's 39. >> I gave you a bottle of water. I trust you. >> If the water overflows from here, goes into I think this is just collecting from the road.
>> It's just collecting from the road. Where does that pump to? Where does that water go to? Orange County. So the thing is does any of that going to any of the lakes the local lakes >> if it
>> if it drains only the road. Where's all that going to reservation? >> Uh those this is the only lake that is m it's connected with lakes. >> Okay.
>> But this particular lake is >> there aren't any pumps. There aren't any pumps. So it's Oh, so it's not >> So it's not Okay. >> So there's no pumps. >> Mayor, with all due respect, can we find out what the discussions about? I I'm
hearing about pumps and stuff like that of where pumps are pumping to. Can you clarify that? >> There's I was asking, was there any of any of these pipes pumping into your lake, but there's no pumps in your lake? >> There's no pumps going. >> I just want to make sure that we're not pumping into your lake. >> Okay. But he's showing me showing us
that >> the water goes across bign. >> Yeah. All the information it's going in. >> It's all a gravity system >> that is operated and maintained by the county. So >> Okay.
>> That's what we're trying to clarify. There's no pumps collect. Uh >> your He's saying that your lake is the only one that is a closed lake. It has no pumps going into it. Okay. Well, okay. All right. Thank you. >> So, everything this way
up here. >> Okay. >> It's a drop. >> Thank you for that. >> Thank you. Right. >> Okay. All right. Brian, go ahead. >> Sounds great. >> Mayor, commissioners, city staff, thank you for uh putting this on tonight. It really is kind of helpful to get it's a starting point instead of sitting at a
kitchen table and emails back and forth. This is a good start to to go from. So, I do have one question. As I stated before, my name is James Bryant Mater. I do go by Bryant Mater. I live at 2556 Lamar Valley there in Clear Lake Landings. I am the board president for
the community. I also have the the vice president with me as well. Um, my one question that I do have just because I moved out here four years ago is where does a reclaimed water come from? >> We got a couple places. One is all of
our waste water gets converted to reclaimed water. >> Okay. >> We have some water coming from um Altoont Springs. We have some coming from utilities inc. And then the balance so in our dry months comes from um uh
wells that we have and we have to have those permitted by St. John's is they tell us the maximum draw that we can take off. >> Okay. >> So nothing's coming from Lake Aapka at any time for the reclaim. Okay. I have a lot of notes on here because I
was I'm I'm like you, Miss Velasquez. As we're getting a study here, I also forgot to mention, thank you, Greg, for uh stepping up and helping out with this event. He did a really good job um walking us along with the permit process. So, thank you, Greg, and your company. My one question that I have is
we have four total entities that own the lake. Why is Clear Lake Landings the only one fronting this bill? Well, you're not fronting the bill if you pick option one. You're saving money every month. Listen, we'd love to take it on. I can tell you my utility
department would love to take it on. I' I'd love to >> We're done. You take it on. We're done. >> We can't. >> I just That's what we've already talked about. I can't take it on. >> So, you're going to save $20 a month. And the problem is if we put a pump station at Wicawa Estates, uh, Clear
Lake Estates, because they're a much smaller neighborhood, the basically all the infrastructure is basically the same with 42 homes. So, it it doesn't make near the economic sense for them to do it. >> I understand you say that we're going to save money. >> Yeah. >> But we have no real studies. We don't
have an insurance to find out what the insurance is going to cost. We have no idea what Duke is going to charge right now all the way to 2027 to 2029. We have no idea how much that's going to go up. We're being told that there's a study and we're going to or excuse me the
savings, but where's the savings from? Where's the data, Matt? That's what I want to see. How did we come up? I don't want a spreadsheet. I want to see the actual data of where did the maintenance come from from a maintenance company coming in here to maintain it monthly because I imagine we probably got to maintain the pumps monthly um in order
to to yeah >> get the m >> Well, I don't know if Greg, do you have a a breakout more? >> Yeah. So that's if you look at the estimate that I >> you need to come come back up please sir. >> Yeah. So there is an estimate in the um documents and that was that was included
within the uh monthly uh maintenance cost in the documents I had put together. I don't know um and those are the documents I had forwarded on. I don't have that handy. I apologize for that. >> Okay. We we can get that to them. >> Yeah. This was kind of last minute.
Sure. But uh but but so I basically took and you know as part of my engineer's estimate and with my background I've had the irrigation of knowing what would go into the maintenance and kind of put together a high-end estimate to say this
is where things should really fall out. Um and then part of that is you know the existing irrigation system maintenance also right you still have the existing water valves and all the items have to be maintained there as well. So that's why I put it on the higher end.
>> Okay. Okay. >> So I like to see the the actual breakdown, you know, including the insurance, the monthly maintenance of where who's going to do this work, >> who's is going to fall on if we have all four entities, who's going to be the controlling factor of are we going to have a separate board that just controls
this pump station? >> It's yours. >> It's But if we have four entities involved with it, >> you're not. It's you. >> But why is it fair to the Clear Lake landings >> to to save $20 a month? I don't know. >> You're saying save $20 a month. I don't
see it yet. So, we we can't really go on something that we can't see or touch. We're just we're guesstimating right now. >> No, we're more we're more in guessing, but >> Well, we're guessing. >> Not down to the nickel. You're You're right. >> Yeah. So, I like to see what the dollar amount really actually is. >> Okay.
>> With the energy factor, what what kilowatt was used? What's those motors used a month? Do we really know? >> Sure. >> What happens if this pump comes up out of the ground and who we have a lot to repair? We're going to have to set a line item within our budget as well just
for the maintenance of this pump, which is important. >> But once again, why is Clear Lake Glandings the only one out of four entities that own this thing blunting the entire bill? >> I go back to you're saving $20 a month. I
>> I think there's other opt So there are other options, correct? So you guys are not >> You want to do option two? Absolutely. They you would have options. So the first option states >> absolutely have them involved then they everybody >> pull that option two back up that cost um
>> option two with all of them >> pay all three of them in there you go >> is four is four or three is >> yes >> so with more people involved we're spending more money >> sure >> why why is that >> Brian >> I'm just asking a simple question
>> free water man I I don't know how else to tell you that >> I free nothing's free nothing's free. There's a cost somewhere along the line. Somebody's paying for it. Nothing's free. Let's just get that out of the off the table. Nothing's free. >> It's going to come from somewhere.
Who's going to pay if this lake is going down low? Who's going to cover the cost to reapply for the permit? >> Clear Lake Landings, right? >> What's that? >> We will. >> You would cover that cost? >> No, we we will we will get the permit. We'll have to if we have to reconnect
you, we'll reconnect you. That's >> who's going to pay to reconnect? >> We will. >> I I haven't heard anything like that. >> So, are we trying to >> Are we trying to solve the flooding or we trying to solve the the drought? I mean, I don't >> I'm not here to solve the drought. I'm here to protect my community. That's
what I'm here to do. >> Okay. >> And so, that's the reason why I'm asking the questions. >> Sure. >> Because 5 years from now, if we have to reconnect back into this pump >> Yeah. >> or back into the reclaim, who's going to cover the cost? >> We are. >> Okay. So, the city's going to do that >> 100%. So, if it cost 100,000, you might
have to go get >> It's not that much. It's It's peanuts. Just >> Everything's free in peanuts, man. I like it. Everything's free in peanuts. So, >> um my other question is is where is Mud Lake being pumped into? >> It's not being pumped. >> There's no Is there a pump over there?
>> Nope. >> Nothing. Okay. >> Nope. >> Water testing. Has that been factored in? >> Can you test private? >> We haven't test it. No. >> Okay. That's probably some steps that we need to take if we're we're getting ready to move this forward. So, we probably need water testing. Sure.
>> To make sure that the chemicals and stuff aren't in there. >> Um I already have insurance, electricity factors, um monthly maintenance and repairs. Um another question I have is we were never really given option one, two, or three.
It was like clearly this is what it is. We're going to put the permit in your name. >> You guys are going to fund it's going to cost $450,000. Now all of a sudden the city has a another60,000. Avon Point is covered in 60,000. So we found $120,000
just by having a couple meetings here and there. Um we've never really I want to get that on the record. We never really had an option two three at all. It was just Clear Lake, you're you're handling that. Um, also who is taking the lake levels? Where's those where
who's providing that data? Is it an outside firm or is the city doing that? >> Inside. >> Okay. >> We we just I think we've got how many lakes do we have? you know, how many lakes we have on a we have I know we've got border, we've got uh Lake Hammer,
>> Border, Lake Jackson, McDade, uh Blue, Lake Page, >> Hammer, >> Lake Hammer. Uh now we started measuring this one. >> So, four or five lakes that across the city that we we measure on I would say seven or eight.
>> Y >> in option two, you provided an estimate of a cost of over $1 million. How was that provided? How did you break that number down? Was there estimates given from outside companies? >> No, we did an estimate based on the
recent prices for the pipe installation for the particular size and the length and all the fixtures they're required plus the wet well and also some of the valves pretty much all the equipment that is associated with that. >> Is there a breakdown on that that we can look as a community? Uh
>> I would think for a million dollars ought to be something on a spreadsheet somewhere. >> Is there a way that we can get that mayor? >> Yes, sure. >> Yeah, we can provide it to you. Yes. >> Do you have anything? >> Well, just that we have um we have a 12-page water study done in 2023. >> Oh, you did?
>> You did one. >> Oh, okay. >> So, >> but what did it I I don't I know we tested for nitrogen phosphorus a while back. That was fine. We didn't go down deep in a like arsenic or >> it just it was a final approval that it
was safe for reclaim, >> right? >> Um I think really having a breakdown of the cost because we have the answer to 142 homeowners of you know exactly >> what the cost of things are going to be. We can't suffice them just that you're
going to save $20 a month and just be happy. They want to know why, where, when, and and how is this going to affect us and the fact of the liability of us taking on the pump for the homeowners. So, >> we have to have all of that before really we can make a decision because we have to stand before those homeowners to
justify all of that. >> Sure. I I I understand. And at the $20 a month savings, and we haven't factored insurance, your insurance could be $2,800 just on that pump. It's >> So if you did $20 a month savings, is what you're stating at 142 houses,
that's $2,840 a month that we have to apply to insurance somewhere. We need kind of a we we need more of a breakdown of what's >> If you want to call your I mean, your insurance agent could tell you what it would cost. Our insurance would not
cover it. Just so you know, I did call. >> Really? >> Correct. >> It's over water. >> Huh? >> It's over water. They don't want to mess with something that's touching the water. Anything hurricane related. There's also other insurance companies
that I reached out to have a 10 10% hurricane deductible right off the bat >> of what that's insured for. >> Sure. >> So, do you have any ideas on insurance for pump stations? You might with your agricultural background. I don't know. Most of them I know are just included in the package, but well, it also depends
on the type of insurance. Are we is it a liability insurance or is it a replacement insurance? So, it's like when you buy something at Best Buy and they'll replace it up to a couple years or so much. So, it's what type of insurance are you getting? So, you know, being self-insured or having
some type of policy. I wouldn't know how much those policies would cost, but >> I I can work on that. >> Yeah. But but those are the two types, right? If someone gets hurt playing around the pump, right? and something happens there. That's a type of insurance. And the other type would be to replace it if it gets damaged,
>> right? Lightning strike or I don't know what how a hurricane could hurt a pump station, but just so we're clear if it >> I I'm a licensed insurance. I do this for a living. That's why I I do it all the time. I know what the coverages are. I know what's going on with it. So, as far as the the coverage ratio on it,
you're it's you're very limited on a pump station being there without it being actual cash value ACV. Correct. >> Um, so which means that not only do you have a hurricane deductible of 5 to 10% of what this what we're insuring it for. So we could be liable for $90,000 in
damage if a hurricane the first $90,000 to fix it. Plus it's also actual cash value. So then we have to front that bill. So that's when you're talking the cost savings of $18, that stuff has to be factored in as well. >> Sure. >> It's not factored in. So, the cost
savings, your $18 is slowly going down to where now we're back into the red of the HOA having to cover it and the homeowners and the 142 homeowners. >> And we don't have have we uh priced out debt for this because there's some upfront cost for that as well.
>> We got 6%. >> Well, other than just 6%, there's costs associated with getting the debt. So, Commissioner Nester, just to clarify, uh the two as we said, five years and 10 years at 6% interest, right, for the 124
homes. If let's say what uh Mr. Major concern is the saving is actually $20 only for the five years, the first five years after that the capital cost is covered completely. The loan is paid. So that 4765 comes out of the equation. So
it will be whatever the cost is, let's say, of $18 plus some insurance. >> There's a lot more variables in this though, and that's what we're discussing. So there, this isn't like a comprehensive approach to how we're budgeting anything. So I don't, this doesn't give the full picture of what this would look like because as you go on, just like a car, the older the car
gets, the more maintenance costs. So you have no maintenance cost and then big maintenance cost at the end. Whereas this is going to be very similar. Small, small, small, small, then very big. are probably after 5 years stuff starts adding up to where it's not just $18, it's $40, $50, $60. So, there's a lot of
variables in here that we didn't add in. I appreciate that it's here uh to to as a jumping point, but it's it's unfinished at best. I think it's a great discussion among
the the the mayor and the commissioners and the our board and Clear Lake Estates board. Um, but I think we're still we still got a lot of work to do in order to get the the numbers out correctly so we can sell it to our 142 because
they're going to have the same question. They're going to say, "What's going on with Avon Point? Why aren't they coughing up more? What what's going on with Clear Lake Estates?" And I'm not trying to add more to your budget, Clear Lakes Estates. So, I apologize ahead of time. I'm in her car.
But I I think there's still a lot of questions that we need to be able to have answers before we can go back in front of our community and say this is what's going on. But in the meantime, the lake is going up down up down. We are getting into hurricane season. Most of the uh pictures that you've seen on
the internet or on the news happened to be her house. Um that was two or three feet away. Greg and I um looked at it quite a bit. So, I haven't been over there for a little while, but it's it's definitely she knows the lake probably the the levels just as much as anybody
that's measuring it. So, um I think it's a great discussion, but I still think we need a a lot of work. >> So, have you had any discussion with the other two developments uh with Clear What is it? Clear Lake, your Clear Lake landing, Clear Lake
Estates and Abian Point. Are >> they aware of this? >> Oh, you are? Yeah. That's Kota Lake Estates. I don't know where I don't >> I can't get Avon Point to cut their palm trees down. So, I don't know how to get a hold of them
to have a discussion with them or >> but if they're putting in 60,000 somebody's talking to them >> correct who >> it's just I don't know where's the 60,000 coming from >> from AV on point. >> That's the 60 they they they put up front, >> right? So, who got that 60,000 from that?
>> It's in our Got it. So, somebody's talking to them. >> No, I have one question. The 60,000, am I hearing this right? That wasn't the 60,000 to pump the original deal to pump the lake. >> No, we've got it in We've got it in our
in a reserve. >> Okay. So, that wasn't paid. I thought that was discussed to have the the pumping. So, this 60,000 to come to >> Yeah. >> So, they knew about that a pump. >> Yeah. >> They did. They just gave 60,000. They gave the 60,000 to to make y'all go away.
>> Must be free. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So they gave 60,000 but they didn't know why they were paying 60,000. >> Well, sure. To get their development. >> To Okay. Say that again. >> To get their development. >> So hush money.
>> Hush money is what what I Yeah. >> No. >> Yeah. >> But >> so they paid 60,000 to get a co. No, that we when we they came forward for the development agreement and they were complaining the two neighborhoods were complaining about the water levels. They
wanted to build some additional houses. We said, "Well, one of the conditions will be that you put $60,000 toward the the the long-term solution for Clear Lake." So, that's that's >> Mayor, with all due respect, we need to negotiate better because they needed
something, right? And they built a lot more houses than just what they needed. They probably could have probably asked them for 450 when they needed to their CEO and needed that done. But now in the in the meantime, our 142 residents and possibly Clear Lake Estates are going to
have to front this bill. But they got their CEO and everything looks good because they coughed up $60,000. It just doesn't look good. Mayor, >> how many residents? >> Yeah. How many total houses were built over there in residents or units? including 45. There's more than 45.
>> Well, only only a quarter of the neighborhood drains into Clear Lake. The rest of it goes goes north. So, only a quarter of Aven Point. >> So, that explains >> Yeah. So, that explain My daughter's taking her permit deal. So, we drive
over there. That must be that little slight bump that we hit that diverts the water away from our lake then. >> Yes. >> Okay. So that's how they get down to the 25% of the >> who did that study. >> That's what we calculated that based on the area
that was presented in the map from what was in the pre-development. I believe it was 32%. In the post development it was uh 24%. What I they reduced basically between pre and post they reduced the area
draining into into the basin into clear water lake for 8% of the overall uh area that was draining there. >> But a lake that was already flooded was approved to have another 25% dumped into it.
>> No. No. The originally 32% of their property was draining into this area, right? Or was contributing into the drainage basin after the post development after the property was developed only 24%.
>> It's at $60,000 that they gave. >> Well, it's not believe it was related to that. I think it was a an additional phase that was already approved by a major development plan. So it was from what I recall there was a discussion
here at this podium and the developer said that they will contribute about $60,000 to continue with the project because >> they needed some >> well they they could have built it no matter what. I mean it was approved by
the major development plan. >> But wasn't it held up for a little while? It was because of the concerns that the other two neighborhoods. >> So they paid 60,000 to get what they wanted and now we're fronting that bill. Correct.
>> I wouldn't qualify like that because always if you have already approved plans major development plan, you may end up with a lawsuit. So >> yeah, >> I'm I'm just I don't know all the details on this, but I'm speculating
that that could potentially happen, right? >> So before that development was built, shouldn't have this study been done prior. >> They they still have to meet the one in aundred year. I mean, when you talk about storm water, Vlad, what's the the
the minimum standard is they have to have meet a one in aundred year. >> Yes. Yes. So all all they had to meet in this situation was basically the the post-development discharge into the drainage basin cannot exceed the flow and the volume of the pre-development
discharge and I believe they met that condition because St. John's otherwise wouldn't get wouldn't issue a permit. I mean these are the conditions that they required for their permit. >> So why would they give $60,000 if they felt like they didn't do anything wrong? There's a potential lawsuit. they their
project was moving along just perfect. But the minute that their project slowed down because you had two communities, I'll say the polite way stink on it, then the $60,000 automatically showed up. I I can't speak for them but
typically what happens is if somebody is in the middle of development and already had developed two or three phases and they want to complete the project they will rather contribute into the solution that is kind of presented or the belief is that exist and they're kind of
involved in that in order to move the project and to finish what they've started. >> Who negotiated the 60 how who came up with the $60,000? >> We did as a council. >> Yeah. Yeah. It was it was presented here at the city council. Yeah. >> Sure.
>> Come to mic. >> And um the reason why I'm cutting in is because there's some foot Oh, my name is Venus Griffith. Commissioners and mayor. I live 2428 Win Bay Place in Apa Clear Lake Estate subdivision. There is
footage out there that the developers of Avon Park dumped dirt in Clear Lake uh Lake there. There is footage out there. And I'm not going to tell you where it is, but there is footage out there. So,
you pay them off or they paid you to keep quiet knowing that they dumped out there. And they said the mayor knew about it. >> No, that's wrong. That's an absolute fabrication. >> Okay. Well, one day I'll show up with the footage >> that they don't.
>> Sure, let's do it. >> You know, because nobody's accountable to say where the $60,000 are coming from. That's just hush money. We are Clear Lake Estates suffered because of greed all the way around the lake. And I
I'm I love my neighbors because they're right across the street from me, right across the lake and everything. But we are suffering. I've been in my home for 19 years and we had no problem. Hurricanes came and gone. Trees are down. I don't care. But we had no
problem. And to find out the history of Apopka Lake is they sh had never built houses over there because the dirt everything is bad because of pesticides that goes all the way back to the 1900s.
And I have proof with that as well. So why Clear Lake Estates, Clear Lake Landings, Avon Park because of greed and say, "Okay, we're going to build bill build, but the infrastructure is not out there." And you promised me when you put
in the 429 there, that lady stood right here from the highway and said, "You will have no more flooding problems. If we come in, we'll make sure there's no flooding pro problems." There is going to be a flooding problem. We have a hurricane out there going to be a
hurricane tropical storm. If we have another Milton, then my house will be floated down down the river. And then what you going to say? It's no accountability. Why are we paying for your mistake or your greed? Why are we
doing that? because I don't see Apakka, city of Apaka, paying a dime. You passing it on to us, which is very unfair. I will get hit first because I have the biggest slot out there as everybody can
see and uh I'll get hit first. My grandson can't even play out there because he he thinks that's our park. He said, "What happened, Grandma? There's a few of us run around that park and everything. It's all damage. An
insurance company is never going to touch that. That's a big liability. We don't have enough 10 million, 25 million to really come there and do what you say you're going to do. And we putting a band-aid on Niagara Falls because we
cannot you cannot guarantee us that this will work in two years, in one year. You're just saying a possibility. And we pay out money for for what? For nothing. Do you think that's fair, mayor? Or you could bring your grandson or your grandbaby over to my house after it
rained and play around the park where alligators are. And I haven't seen any alligators because they float down low. It was a canal back and forth. Look at the maps. So the people that built Avon
Park dumped dirt and clogged up that lake. You need to set us that we we'll let our our MS4 coordinator take care of that. That's that's illegal. >> How you going to take care of it? Then you're going to have us to pay money to go down and into the lake. >> I just need to see them the pictures.
>> Okay. So when if if it's true, >> give us the pictures. >> If it's true, then what are you going to do? I want to hear. >> We'll take them to court. >> You that I'll be a old lady by taking court. >> So what would you like me to do? >> We going to have to do something. I know. >> Okay. So, you're going to give me the
pictures from the people that were dumping into the lake. If you'll do that, we'll we'll we'll take the appropriate measures. >> I can show you that. >> It's still not going to resolve the flooding. >> You know, I'm I'm I'm addressing this one issue. So, you want to bring me the the picture showing they dumped dirt
into the into the lake. We will take appropriate action. >> Well, your engineers here did not really um wasn't looking at stuff properly. They were not. It was at night and they do it a lot at night. I saw them.
>> Okay. Well, then give me the pictures. That's all I'm asking. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> You think? Oh, yeah. About the trees cuz we talked about the trees the last time. Um, Commissioner Neester said, "Can you remove the trees that we that was killed there?"
>> We have over 100 trees. >> Can I shoot? So, the trees was the trees on So, we have city trees on city property that we haven't removed that are dangerous. I want to make sure because we should not definitely be having >> as far as I know. That is city property. As far as I know, I I I don't I don't
have the map where it's supposed to be, but all of our trees on on that lake side are dead. We took down some >> and we paid for it cuz we you know it's some of them just fell. >> Yeah, it was very We have a sign. Fallen
trees, alligator, snakes. Nobody. How could you sell your house? because you you know you have danger right there. >> Excuse me, Bradley. Have we assessed to see if there's any trees that are on the city property that we're liable for? >> Commissioner, we don't have any city property around that link. >> We don't have any city.
>> That's right. It's all It's all private property. >> So that's all private property in the city. >> No, it's all property. >> I've been through it, too, but I'm just not Maybe I'm missing something. >> No, there's no problem. >> The trees are all in by the lake. >> I've been Okay. So,
>> yeah. So, that's that's a gated community. We don't have any city property in >> Okay. >> No, you're just so I guess what we need we need a more detailed breakdown. I need to get that to you. I need to come up with an insurance cost for the pump
station. >> So, within my closing, mayor, um, and commissioners, I I I think here's what we need to do. As you can clearly see, there's a lot of gaps in this in this plan. I think we really need to refocus it. Mayor, I' I've sent you a couple
emails to sit down, even prior to this meeting to where we could have been better prepared, and I laid it all out for you. I said, "Hey, let's sit back down and talk." So that way when we come to this meeting, we have more answers. Now, I feel like we're two to three weeks out from our last time that we
were in here, nothing's getting done. We have a we have a a savings of $18, but we have a lot more loopholes. Everything's being sold on. We're saving you money. we're saving you money, but we're technically we're not. So, with all due respect, I think we need to go back to the drawing board. Um,
somebody's got Avon points number. So, maybe we dial them up and talk to them about fronting more of a cost. So that way our community at Clear Lake Estates is is not holding this this iron for all these they're into it for $60,000, but
you're asking my community to go get a loan for $350,000 plus maintain it for years to come. >> Plus save money every month. >> I'm sorry. >> Plus save money every month. >> We don't know if there's a savings. I know, mayor. It's frustrating. I'm with you. Um I I do the same thing. I there
just like you told me this is an asset. It's not an asset. It's a liability. You can't sell this pump. It's a liability. This now becomes our HOA's liability where we have to go put a line item within our budget on maintenance, cost, repair, everything.
>> 100%. I Which means now our board and our property management company are probably going to be looking for more money because now they have to go out and find somebody that's going to maintain this, make sure it's done, manage the billing of it each month. There's a lot that goes into this.
who's going to pay who who's going to collect the money. Our our property management company's not a collection agency. So now we have to have an attorney. So if for some reason a homeowner decides not to pay their their front of the the bill, now we've got to get legal action involved with that.
There's a lot of cost. So now that $18 isn't looking so good. I'd appreciate the time, Mayor. >> Commissioner. Yes, ma'am. Absolutely. I was going through unfortunately I I remember the last time that you were here and you had you said that you kept referencing different emails between you
and the mayor. >> Yes, ma'am. >> I did get all those emails today. >> That's great. >> What is the ongoing lawsuit? Who who does that involve? >> We had an ongoing lawsuit with our uh the developer of the community that has now been settled
>> and it was settled. >> It was settled. >> Okay. But that didn't have anything to do with us, right? >> That has nothing to do with the city. >> Okay. >> The prior board um filed the the suit and the new board had cleaned it up. So, unfortunately, I can't discuss the the
deal, but yes, there was an ongoing and it has been settled. >> Was the lawsuit had anything to do with the flooding in the lake? >> No, ma'am. >> Okay. >> No, because I saw correspondence regarding it. So, I was wondering does it have anything to do with the lake?
>> The relevancy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, there was a a signed agreement from the the city, and this is prior to me getting on the board, where the city signed an agreement, and I'd have to find that agreement. I I know we could we could pull it up. Um, and that agreement was where the city was taking
some type of responsibility that they were going to handle it. Um, we did give that to another lawyer to take a look at it, um, to see if it was a binding agreement between the city and and our Clear Lake landings. So, I'd have to get that to you, Commissioner, and I could
definitely look at that >> because I I did see when I had asked for it at that meeting, I did today. I got all the emails. You send them mostly all to Commissioner Netor. So, I was able to get them because it's public record, but
I'm just reviewing them now, trying to kind of get the timeline, the dates when you wrote to the mayor and he responded. And so, I kept seeing something in the early months regarding an ongoing lawsuit. So, I was unsure if it had anything to do with the funding issue.
>> And and Commissioner, just so you know, the Nestus only came up from the prior meeting a little bit before I I shared the emails because I wasn't It's kind of hard to pull your emails down off of the website because it when you click on it to try to copy it, it does something crazy. So, I was I couldn't get each
commissioner on there. >> Yeah, that's okay. I mean, I did get them today, so I quite a few% them in some kind of order. Well, like I stated before, Commissioner, we were kind of confused. I mean, we sat in my house. A loan for our community was
never brought up. I I found out about a loan from our community when we were sitting here in the in the meeting the last time. >> Well, I did see an email from the mayor to you on July 10th where he actually is letting you know that this was going to
be on the July 16th city council. when he had and his email basically said, "Please invite the community to come out." But you're saying that when you received that email, you were unaware that at some point you were going to be responsible.
>> That email, ma'am, is is something completely different that he was inviting saying, "Hey, we're going to discuss this." Now, what I'm talking about is is if you go back in the emails, if you have a list of all the emails, you'll see where we were talking numbers. We were talking if if you look at one of the emails I said, "Hey, what
happens if our community pays 225 or 250? Um I can't remember what it was in there." >> It was half of 450k. So 225,000. >> Sounds great. >> Right. The city cover half of the
installation cost of the pump >> that there was what you proposed your alternative and that was back in >> May, May 9th. That would be correct. May >> Yes, ma'am. >> So, we were negotiating at that deal because I thought the city was going to
front this bill up front and then we were going to pay back that you guys were going to collect from the residents on the reclaim part until the loan was paid off. And then I if if you go back and look at that email, we're trying to figure out who's the collection part of of it once this loan's paid off, who
collects for the maintenance and and repairs and insurance and and so forth. So, that's what that email stated. I had a lot of questions in there if if you were >> You did. Yeah, >> you did. >> So, again, I just have to kind of sit down and review. >> No, I appreciate it. And like I said, this is a great first step. Um I'm
hoping that we can move it along. As as stated, there's other hur there's a hurricane out there right now. Um hopefully it doesn't hit our area or any area, but definitely over our lake. Um I don't want Nicole I love her to death and her family, but I don't want to see her at my house um because I'm higher
ground, but she's welcome to. But let's uh I I'd like to continue the discussion um and and try to get some type of a solution and resolution on this. >> Okay. Any other final comments, questions?
>> Come on. >> Uh Jeff Chaffy, um 2444 Wind Bay Place, Clear Lake Estates. Got a couple questions on option two for the pump and all that stuff. How many gallons does it take to get from 69 foot elevation to
63? >> I'm glad you asked that. >> Well, it's So, you got a 39 acre lake and there's 336 gallon 30 336,000 gallons of water per acre foot.
So, an acre foot is 13 million gallons. >> A lot. >> So, what is with with the new >> So, let me give you the the numbers. Um, Clear Lake. Uh, let's see. Or 25. Let me get you 24
because I got the full year on 24. Uh, hang on just one second. Mind. Shoot. I just had it. Oh, here we go. Here we go.
Okay. Uh 24. So 2024, Clear Lake Estates used 6,522,000 gallons. Clear Lake Landings used 50,475,656 gallons.
Your neighborhood averaged average 543,000 gallons a month and Clear Lake Landing average 4 million gallons 4,200 4,200,000 gallons per month.
>> Um, was that your question? >> No. I thought >> like how many gallons does it take >> right >> from 69 foot elevation to get it down to 63 to pump it >> be six times the >> 13 months of 78 million gallons. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. So then what would it take for this new pump to pump it to get it down that far? >> How long would it take? >> Yeah. >> I'm not you remember how big the or how big the pump? So with a with a 8 in pipe
will typically 24 hours operations 1.1 million gallons a day >> 1.1 million >> 1.1 million a day. >> Wow. >> With a 5 ft per second velocity, right? We use the same velocity let's say a 6 in pipe in 24 hours. I think it's around
450 maybe. No, I'm sorry. It's about 600,000 gallons. >> So it's bigger than the temporary pump that we had. >> Yeah. >> Okay. That was I think a 6 in. I think it was 6 in. I thought >> Yeah. >> So, what do you do with that water when it's pumped? It's going to go through
and get cleaned up >> on option two. >> Yes. >> Option two would go to our our facility there on Lust Road. >> Yeah. >> Where we would uh we have two um ponds. The water would go into the ponds, would be filtrated, come out of the
filtration, then it would have to be chlorinated, and then we can then put that into our our reclaimed water system. >> And then you're going to sell it? >> Yes. >> At $85 85 bucks a month per household. So,
we're paying $1 million for all of that when you're going to take that water and sell it. >> But >> that doesn't make any sense. Well, you're not paying for the >> and we're still paying for reclaimed, >> right? I I got it.
>> So, we're paying and giving you water and then you're making money on that. >> We're having to treat the water to >> You're not paying more than you're getting paid, >> but we're also having to to >> You're not You're not paying more than you're getting paid for it,
>> right? >> Well, we can pull it out of the ground for the electricity pulled out the Just saying it's free water we're giving you that we're paying a million dollars for. It'd be nice to know what those numbers are. >> What numbers?
>> What how much you're making on all that water continuously? >> Well, we're going to keep putting water in into the lake from our irrigation because we're all still going to be on reclaimed and you're going to continue to get that water. Yes, you're paying to
have it filtered and treated, but you're also reselling that water. >> Where's those numbers? Where's that data? >> That that's not certain. That was something that we were discussing and we will have to clarify that with San Johnson D if we can actually resell that
water because it's going to require additional treatment, right? So, we didn't calculate it what the additional treatment cost will be for the city. What I was looking at on a on a just a short notice, right, because we had to prepare this was, okay, there's an option that the permit that St. John's
issued right now, you can withdraw 19.2 million gallons a year and we can store there 20 million gallons total, right, in those two ponds. >> So, it was to keep it there and, you know, hoping
evaporation will help with some of the water to get >> You're going to sell that water? Uh, no. If we don't >> hold it for until the end of time. >> Well, if we don't treat it, we can't sell it, right? We're going to have to keep it there in the pond. So,
>> but we don't use that pond now at all. Correct. >> No, right now they're not in use. Yes. And that's why I was looking at this option. Potentially, we can utilize it because if we had other sources coming into that pond, that option two was going to be probably out of question.
So, if we go with option two and you don't sell that water and we just keep pumping it, pumping it, pumping it, what's going to happen? >> Well, you can't because you can only pump out 19.2 million gallons according to and Greg, correct me if I'm wrong. I
think the permit calls for 19.2 million gallons total, right? With a monthly not to exceed 4 million gallons. So let's say you have uh really during the rainy season you have two or three months where you can actually get
to 4 million gallons every month. >> That will give you let's say 12 million gallons, right? So the remaining of the year you're going to be only limited to seven or eight million gallons that you can pump out of the lake. But why would you give us this option if it's not really an option? >> Well, it is
>> just to scare us away with a million dollar price tag. No, no. It's okay. >> The the water is not just going to go and sit somewhere and stay there forever, is it? >> The mayor said you're going to sell it
possibly. Yes. If D can modify the permit and we're going to have to meet certain standards and we don't know what these standards are to treat the water so we can be sent back to public access, right? So that's why we didn't have the cost estimate of what
is going to cost the city to treat this water to bring it to the standard they can be sent >> and the standards that we have to meet are greater than the standards you have to meet >> to irrigate your yards with right >> yes it's going to be different >> I understand that it's going under claim
>> I mean you know the option I thought you guys were talking about because I was not involved in dealing was actually just discharging it to the other basin which is what they did during that emergency permit right so That's and so if they're going to collect the water and treat the water and then send it back into the reuse, that's more in in
Vlad's realm, if you will. And and so if that's something that you wouldn't have a lot of time to evaluate that in in the time frame since I talked to him, which was last last week sometime two years not enough time. >> No, I just talked with him week or so
ago. But um the the idea is is >> it's a fair it's a fair idea. >> I got it. >> Yeah. and just it was given to us as an option, >> right? >> We need to know all of the ramifications of that option. I mean, if they're going to treat it and sell it like the mayor says, then
>> I mean, what is what is that? What is that cost? >> Yeah. And that and that capital cost of $1 million that I kind of rounded, but it's maybe a little bit more conservative because it takes into account, you know, if the city needs to operate that, we want to have a wet well where
you can have the pump actually in an enclosure. So you don't have the pump running next to these houses 12 hours a day, right? Or 24 hours a day in a case of emergency. Drives you crazy. So we I kind of try to take that into
consideration, right? So also to automate some of the valves, let's say to have a proper monitoring of that so we don't have to send a person to check on that every day that we can remotely control that through the scale system. A lot of these technical gadgets that you
need to include in that they they're not trip, right? They can add to the cost and but ultimately we have to do the cost benefit analysis, >> but it could be more than a million. >> I I doubt it, but I would say
bare minimum it's going to be maybe 700 to $800,000, right? It'd be nice to know what's going what you're going to do with that water, what it's going to cost, and at least see the numbers. If we're going to get numbers on everything else, why can't we get numbers on that?
>> We can get that. >> Sure. >> That's all I got. Thank you. >> Anybody else? >> Any last thoughts? >> I just had a question. We didn't discuss option three at all. What does that look like pragmatically on a consistent basis like annually?
Well, there will be we already spend >> and option three was the temporary pumping whenever needed. It's just not up there. I just want to tell. >> Yes. So, two and a half years ago, the cost was almost $200,000 for emergency pumping. >> We're not so much talking about that. What's the What's the process?
>> What's the process? Well, the pro well the permitting process is also I'm not sure if the border management district will be willing to continue issuing these emergency permits right to every storm
situation. That's that's another thing. At the time this was addressed it was like after hurricane Ian. So the water table was still h high pretty high and the pumping I believe started in February of 23 and ended up sometime in
April. So I think the permit was issued for 90 days and typically the water management district will issue this permits for no more than 90 days or three months and the idea was to pump the water during the dry season and then
accommodate the next rainy season with more storage. So with that thought same thought process, we could apply that annually possibly. >> Yeah. But that will be probably today's prices easy maybe $300,000
at this moment. >> All right. Any last thoughts? No. >> Take it to >> Huh? >> We're gonna get you some numbers. They'll get you the numbers. >> What's that? [Music]
Is someone gonna reach out to Avon Point? Are you guys gonna reach out to Avon Point to >> So you guys need Okay, you have a contact number. Um, we can try and get some of this information pulled together and then if you'd like, mayor staff can meet with
the HOA representatives. >> Okay. >> And maybe what do you think? >> Three weeks. >> Probably about a month. >> Okay. >> For what? another workshop or are we ready to
>> Sure. Absolutely. >> We hope to have those next week. cost. >> Okay. >> How much is how much are you able to bring in cost to treat that water and go ship it out? And what's your what's your
rate once you look so good if you're making money? You're going to need Okay. Do we want to aim for like the fourth week in September? That gives ample time to get numbers and schedules aligned.
Maybe the 22nd. >> What's the 22nd >> for uh September 22nd to potentially do another workshop? Well, I'll confirm that. Um, I have to look at the schedule. That's way in
advance right now for me. >> Yeah, the week before would be better for me. >> The only reason I said I didn't say that is because it's a city council week. So, just for staff's sake, but >> So, the 15th looks better.
>> Yes. Well, me and Okay. Commission ask I have to go home and and look at the schedule because um >> Okay. Sure. >> Absolutely. >> Um >> well, we can we'll bring it to city council next meeting. We'll we'll just
check the date, see if the 15th works and then we'll we'll uh we'll bring it just put on your >> administration report for next next week and we'll uh we'll announce the uh next workshop. >> Okay. as a tenative. Yes.
>> Yeah. Yep. Yep. >> All right. Thanks everybody for coming out.