Call the August 20 city council meeting to order. Commissioner Smith, you give us the prayer pledge and fact of the day, please sir. Our father, we come once again before your presence to say thank you, oh God, for this opportunity to serve as servants of this city. We ask you, oh
father, you bless these proceedings. Bless all that are gathered here today. In thy son in Jesus name we pray. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation
under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Fact of the day. On August the 20th, 1975, vacuum one, an unmanned US planetary probe was launched from Cape Canaveral, Florida on a mission to Mars. On June 19th, 1976, the
spacecraft entered to orbit around Mars and devoted the next month to imaging the Martian surface with a purpose of finding an appropriate landing site for it launcher. On July 20th, the Viking one lander separated from the orbiter and touched down, becoming the first successful spacecraft to land on the
surface of Mars. The same day, the craft sent back the first closeup photographs of the rustcoled Martian surface. Fact of the day. All right. Welcome to the public meeting of the city council of the city of Apathia. Please turn off all cell phones
or set them to silent. The city council permits and encourages input and comments by members of the public on all matters which may come before the council for action. If you wish to address the council this evening, please make sure you have filled out a card with your contact information and
presented it to the clerk. When called upon, please proceed to the podium and speak clearly into the microphone, stating your name, address of record, organization, if any, and direct your comments to the city council and not to individual commissioners, staff, or members of the public. The council and the city staff encourages constructive
criticism. However, personal attacks are prohibited. Please observe general rules of decorum and civility. Speakers and members of the audience shall refrain from rude or derogatory remarks, shouting, disruptions, reflections as to integrity, slander, abusive comments, profanity, vulgarities, and statements
as to personalities. Any violation of these provisions may result in the issuance of a verbal warning, including warning for trespass. If violations persist after such warnings, violators may be removed from the council chambers.
All right. Public comment. Tulip Garden. Hi, I have uh been examining some heat patterns in Orange County and canopy and we have lost a great deal of
canopy in just the last five years. Uh a lot of trees have been bulldozed and then we lost a lot from the hurricanes. And I know we have a tree bank and we need to get them up on public properties, but we also need to encourage our citizens to replace their
trees. And we have a lot of people going around with little pickup with trucks and trailers and uh chainsaws and butchering the trees because they see an opportunity to make some money, but they don't know what they're doing. They're
out there right now during 100 degree days cutting up trees and taking off branches and making them little lollipops. And this is dangerous to the trees in this heat. And I'm sure um Commissioner Smith can agree to this that you don't
cut up oak trees in 100 degree weather and uh butcher them during this heat. It stresses them out. And yet that's happening. um it it reduces their lifespanic and it can kill them. It lets insects and diseases take advantage of
them. What I see is just in a couple of years, a few years, we've gone from being a green area with canopy to suddenly being a heat sink. We have, you can absolutely
see when you look at the heat pattern of northwest Orange County, you see a red streak going right up through Apopka where it was that way in in Orlando and
the um northwest the north to south corridor and along Orange Blossom Trail. uh but now it goes all the way up through Apopka and it is why we are so hot and it it's the reflection of the
concrete and the lack of trees no canopy. Um another thing is is uh we need to get trees out where we have removed trees or where trees aren't and we need water absorbed. I have a long list from the
Florida friendly tree landscaping program of trees that absorb a lot of water. And you can look at the large oak trees transpire 40,000 gallons of water a year and so do
the large maples. And if we look at like even the Lester Road pond, it fills up and the marsh behind it won't take any more water where that water is supposed to go. If you were to put in that barren grass
area around it, water absorbing trees, 40,000 gallons a year would be absorbed. Thank you. Okay, next up Ian Campbell. Good evening. My name's uh Ian Kebell. I live in uh Park Meadow Drive, Magnolia
Park Estates. It's been a while since I've been here. I think the last time I was here was when you guys were uh talking about increasing our water rates 40ome percent last year, but you did us a favor, settled on 24%. only to send another letter out to be 15.5% increase
this year. So, you're back over your 40% you wanted last year. Um, I don't understand how you can go on the news and study your way through and, you know, interviews and say it's a cost of this and cost of that, but yet you're trying to figure out what we're going to
buy $600,000 piece of property. You don't even know what you want to do with it with taxpayer money. Um, as a taxpayer, I'm concerned about how the money is being spent in the city. I look around, I see all the development going on. I see all the lands, trees being mowed and concrete buildings going
up. Kelly Park is being destroyed. That whole area up there doesn't even look the same as it did 24 months ago. I hear people talking about we need to take judicial action against people who don't want to sell their land to us so we can do what we want with it, which is absurd. I don't know what where we
living. I mean, I'm I'm very disgusted at what's going on in this city. I would like to see Doge come up in here after they get done with Orlando and figure out where money's going, whose hands is transferring to, whose buddies are getting contract deals, what's going on with the money. Because this is not
right. You can't sit here and say, "We're going to raise the rates, raise the rates, raise the rates, and then turn around and say, "Oh, we're going to buy $600,000 piece of property. We don't even know what we're going to do with it." How do you expect the citizens to accept that and swallow that and say, "Yeah, okay. I don't mind raising my rates." Now, if there's a legitimate
reason, I'm all for it. But I haven't seen it, especially with all the people coming to Apakka. You know, you talk about impact fees. I'm not well educated in civics and economics and all that, but I can see a lot of people coming to this city and I can see a lot of revenue coming into this city per the taxes and
all the impact fees and all that. So to raise the rates on the people that have already been here is absurd. I think Doge really needs to come up in here and take a look at what you guys are doing with our money. Thank you. Dr. My name's Dr. Jim Moyer. I'm the elected
Orange Soil and Water Conservation District to supervisor, which includes AOPKA. Uh, we're celebrating our 80th year, June 23rd, 2025 through June 22nd of
next year. And I was late. I had pictures and pictures do uh they're worth a thousand words. But Black Sunday was April 14th, 1935. It's
called Black Sunday because the sun was 100% blocked and the dirt just covered the whole thing. The picture that was shown to demonstrate Black Sunday was taken from Strasford, Texas,
April 14th, 1935. Just five months ago, one month short of 90 years later, 80 miles away, there is another picture almost as bad.
In 1935, 20 people died in Kansas because of uh dust inhilation. Five months ago, eight people died in Kansas because the visibility was so bad. They got in an accident and and
people died. The picture in the journalist used 80 miles from where the original one was has tractor trailers all over the road and everything. We are on the verge of a global crisis,
climate crisis. And I'm I'm not trying to uh being an alarmist or something. This is what the experts are saying. In the next 25 to 100 years, we're on the verge and we just have to be ready. I we
have to protect. Now, I noticed that there's a Wakiva Spring and Rock Springs uh basin management action plan. Whole list of cities and other people are on
it. I don't know how in a relatively new to the water conservation district, but we're not on it. But I want to help with that project. It's primarily, if not
entirely, in my district and I'm here to help. If it requires training, I'll do training. Five years ago, I did some personal calculations and 50% at the time of my whole entire
life I spent formally training, learning this, this degree, this certification, etc. Thank you. God bless you all. Leroy Bell Popka. I also watched the the
interview. Yes, people can build on their own land. They have a right to build on their own land. Only they don't have the right to build when it infring infringe on somebody else's property. Uh
on this planning committee that you have uh with Mr. Gustler over I I I didn't come to the meeting for one reason because all this planning of growth and building down on King Road nowhere in
the literature that we find ESA or EI EIA which is a environmental site assessment or either environmental impact assessment. What these things does it keep us from
getting into trouble like border lake clear clear lake estate is where they do test and test on the soil to see which way that the water drains or what where does it flood even down to
contamination. Uh we know that the dump is not in compliance. We know benzene, benzene, ammonium and all this is down there. People is dying from this. But yet and still you're
chugging lucky along. Keep pushing over. Just growing growing. Manage growth is fine. But just just to be growing, building just for the kickback like the young man said, somebody getting greens
with my with the last uh little time I have. My daughter had an accident maybe about three weeks ago. I uh encountered two police officers from a popka.
I made it to the scene. Those two officers were professional, kind, nice, and I think did a remarkable job. But then on the other hand, we have a
few police officers that don't even need to be there. Like I say, we still calling for diverse training, diversity training, and we still calling for some to be fired. Thank you.
Good evening everyone. Nikki Magcguire, Naomi Kids Aopka. First and foremost, I want to clarify that what I'm about to say is not in response to the mayor approaching me after the last meeting regarding comments made by others. My
passion lies in serving and guiding others to improve and be their best selves. Therefore, I must lead by example. My decision was made immediately upon returning to my seat during the last city council meeting. I
sincerely apologize to the council and the general public for exceeding my allotted time and not adhering to the council's decorum. In all fairness, the mayor did attempt to stop me at the three minute mark. I do not receive any
special treatment from the city, nor do I believe I am entitled to any. I will not make any excuses. I want to express my gratitude to the commissioners who continue to support my efforts in serving the PAKA community. Hopefully,
one day each of you will also support our cause. I am grateful for this platform that allows me to connect with the public at no cost. I would like to urge the council to consider extending public comments back to four minutes per
person. I would hate for anyone to feel unappreciated because I did not have enough time to acknowledge them. I promise to adhere to the establish the corum going forward even if it remains at 3 minutes. Thank
you. Okay, sorry guys. This is my first time ever doing this. Um, Nicole Gilbert. I live in the Dumbbridge community. I'm here about the water bill, too. I am a single homeowner. I work two jobs.
Things are ridiculous. I barely like I work two jobs, so I don't wash much clothes. I don't wash my car ever. I don't do anything. I just put $2,000 into my grass because my sod is my grass is dying. So now this is probably gonna die
too. But the water bill this it's ridiculous. Like they need to do something. No other city my my family members live in Winter Garden. Their bills are not like this. The it's the rate is ridiculous. So I feel like I live in a third world country. I'm scared to wash. I'm scared to cook. I'm
scared to do anything that has to do with water. And that's that's sad seeing where we live. And like I said, I work two jobs. I work serving this community in a healthc care pediatric office and I do that and urgent care for them. And
I'm scared literally to do anything to run water for anything. I have a sensor on the sink so I can just turn it off real quick while I'm doing something or if it's on to them, it turns off by itself. I have changed all my everything to like the lowest amount. It's it's
just sad that people have to live like that. And I don't know if anybody else does that, but I was in a relationship, married for 23 years, husband left, now I'm by myself. And it sucks. It's hard. And this like nobody cares. And I just
wish that somebody will care. And I really give gratitude to the guy who went on the news, Aaron, whatever his name was with a C. Amazing. Loved it. Got it out there. Maybe more people will complain about it. Thank you. So that's your
good evening everyone. This is for everyone who can hear my voice. Everybody that's sitting in the chamber in the city of Apakka, the state of Florida, and in our country, too many good people are standing by watching bad things happen and not doing anything
about it. Being completely silent. It's time to stand up against hate. It's time to stand up against corruption. And it's time to stand up against racism. I don't disagree with Leroy on a lot of
things, but I disagree with him on this. He said, "You know, Sebastian, you say that all the time. That's your that's your Anthony." No, it's not my Anthem. It's the kryptonite to hate, to corruption, and to racism. If you just think about
it, what I just said, if we do that, when we normalize the abnormal, we desensitize the truth to the point the truth doesn't matter. And right now, the way we at, when you know someone is at normal and you don't saw it so much, you don't even care no
more. Then when you find out the truth, it don't even bother you to do anything about it. Where are we at as a country? Where are we at as a people? Until we start to understand that everybody that we elect to be a leader in this country, they got to understand and you got to
make them understand that principles matter, integrity matters, honesty matters, accountability matters, responsibility matters, morals matters, ethics matter, character matters,
procedures matter, leadership matters, laws matter, Justice matters and all God's people matter. Just think if we conduct oursel with that, what a glorious place
for any country, not just for America, but for every for everybody. Now, when I say we normalize things, we don't went to one two city administrators and we're not even looking for another one. Why? Because we allow the mayor to
pick whoever you want to pick to put in that seat. That's how corruption started. I have nothing against the city administrator, but he haven't went through the proper channels. And if he was qualified, the last two times we was looking for a city administrator, you guys should have
selected him. But you go and pick somebody from another state and he stayed here less than a year and he's gone. This cannot keep repeating itself over and over and over
again. The more people that we have to come up and use their voice, things will change. Until we start doing that, things are going to stay the same. So, I know change is coming. Just stay the course, please.
Do you want to wait until Albert Mckame 3603 Golden Gem Road? As I look around, I'm reminded every time I come in here just how lucky we are. We have a fantastic building. It's beautifully appointed. When I watch other municipalities on
YouTube, they've got a few tables round about, a few mics. We have given you, our representatives, everything that we can give you to represent us. Question I have for you today, commissioners.
Are the residents of this city getting value for money? Yeah, fair question. The value of this building is not based on bricks and mortar. It's based on its value for you to represent adequately
the needs of the public. It's not happening. And it's not happening because three minutes for public comment. During that public comment, we don't get to ask questions. We can't direct our attention to anyone commissioner or the mayor. It's general
questions. And the unfortunate part is usually I ask questions and I know what the answer is going to be. We're not going to get an answer. You're going to sit there, take notes, and something will happen somewhere down the line. Not acceptable. How much does it cost to run
this building? It really doesn't matter how much it costs. It costs the same every day whether there's people in this building or not. So what we are doing but every day this building is empty and it doesn't represent the public. You're wasting
public money. How do we resolve that? It's pretty simple. Let's start to do public workshops where it's not public comment where we can come in and we can discuss how we feel we can better serve our community. how
we feel you can better serve our community. The fact of the matter is we really are the the value that's inherent in this community. There's so many of my brothers and sisters in here who have
great creativity. But what good does it do? It does nothing because we are so frustrated that our voice really doesn't count. And this is why often degenerates into a
bit of a frackus. Let's start commissioners to use city hall. We have asked if we can use city hall. The answer was no. And we asked how much it would cost if we wanted to use city hall. We weren't allowed to use
it. As a nonprofit, this honest aka cities for artists government should have access to this chamber. And if they don't, commissioners, you have the ability to to use your cash that you have as a charitable donation to entities who want to use city hall for
discussion. R Olsson 3156 Rolling Hills Lane. I'm frustrated with the citizens who moan, and complain on Next Door, popka, rants, and raves, Facebook, and other media, yet fail to call, email, or show up at meetings like these, and fail to
vote. We allow our mayor and commissioners to ignore citizens concerns, approve one development after another, knowing we don't have the infrastructure in place to support it. Our city allows developers to put rooftops and pavement, creating flooding throughout the city, and yet we don't
allow for proper drainage. Developers sought as much as they want. We're restricted as citizens. Developers water anytime, day or night. Citizens are underwater restrictions. Reclaim water pressure is low, requiring lawn sod replacement. We allow the city to fail
to do due diligence, preventive maintenance, and incremental increases resulting in last year's 20% rate increase and this year's 25% in utility fees. Fact-based budgeting is not possible without sidebyside comparison.
This administration's failure to provide our commissioners with that tool leads to another inaccurate wing and prayer budget. This year, of our 60,000 residents, only 20 attended the three strategic planning community forum
meetings last week, and only 75 participated in the online survey. The absence of the mayor and one of the commissioners at these meetings speaks volumes as to planning. Speaking of planning, our new all-inclusive playground requires our children,
handicapped children, to trek 900 ft to the nearest bathroom and water. Plus, there's no fence or any obstruction between the driveway immediately budding the property. The city's proposed couple of roundabouts to slow traffic on the Ponken Road with the addition of over
2,000 vehicles with Palucci acres is like spitting in the wind and then acting surprised when it comes back on you. Ponken Road will become another golden gem. Boy Scout, Kelly Park Road due to the lack of adequate lanes, sidewalks, water, sewer, and support
these homes approved. Wake up, Apakka. This administration does not care about smart growth and its impact on citizens. This administration is more concerned with developers as evidenced by the rubber stamp approvals and the fact that the last time there was an increase in
development fees was 2016. When a US congressman responded as to how many of his 700,000 constituents made up of the majority that supported his position on a pl on his piece of legislation, he indicated he heard from a handful.
Please speak up, show up, channel your efforts to this commission and our legislature. Your engagement is critical. Be that handful. I still have a minute, so I'm going to encourage you to participate in the strategic plan. www.apka.gov/pl gov/plan.
And I want to shout out to the fleet maintenance team who within five minutes came to repair the tire on the police squad car that I was driving. Thank you guys. Good afternoon, mayor, commissioners. Um,
last year we said we'd have a workshop to see what we could do to help reduce the risk of another steep increase in the water bill. And I looked for that workshop. I I didn't
see it. So, um, we let the residents down by not following through on that and pushed another increase on them. find it kind of I'm between a rock and a
hard place here because no I don't live in the city so I don't have to deal with the water bill but I have church members that do and they don't come here because they
don't think they're going to be heard. Um, I kind of feel embarrassed about how the second rate increases happened because there there was no workshop
and we didn't even I don't know if we even attempted to have it or was it just something nice to say last year so that we can get past last year so we can get to this year. I don't know. Um the second thing I wanted
to say um is that uh of course I'm always here for uh supporting the unhoused and the and the needy in Apopka. Um, I went through several things this week um with them and it was about five
or six of them that had heat related illnesses this week because there was nowhere for them to cool at. Um, and I think I must have took boatloads of water out there to
help with the situation. But on the Orange County website, it says that the cooling station is there at the bike park, at the bike place. However, it's not available. And that's um because they need someone to monitor the
location. It's not that they won't open it, it's just that they don't have anybody to monitor it. So, I have signed up to volunteer to help monitor it and I encourage those that can help that can even do that on a uh on a day when it is
um the the heat is as high as it was if they would please go there and sign up themselves to also help. And then the last thing is um this Sunday at 5:30 we will be providing dinner, clothing
and hygiene items and some resources to um the to our unhoused and needy guests and it'll be at just like mamas and I appreciate your support. Thank you. That it okay.
All right. If there's a couple topics that residents I just want to address that really quick and I appreciate there's some new residents that came in today. So, thank you for that and thank you for expressing your concerns. They're definitely heard. Uh, the budgeting process was one that I showed a lot of concern as well. So, it's definitely something that I'm not sure
how we can as a board properly approve it with the way that it is and the way the information that wasn't there. And I've brought that up many times. Um, and especially on the utility cost increases. That's a big one for me as well. It's I'm not immune to it either. And again, if we don't have the budget process in place to understand how we got to these numbers, how are we
increasing it and why are we increasing it? What does next year look like as well? So I promise you you're thank you for being here and your voice is not unheard. I'm hearing I'm listening and and definitely notating and advocating appropriately. So thank you for being here. Okay, we've got uh set amendment minutes
from August 6. Look for a motion to approve the minutes of August 6th. Change on that did. So the August 6 I was actually looking for the minutes and what we have for um
the public comment were just names and um I I did discuss this with Susan. I know that we approved the resolution but I don't think we either I misunderstood but I know that I didn't agree with just list the names. There
were some residents on that list that made some comments that was important, but it's not listed here. Remember, I remember one of the and I'm going to point to and I believe it was Rod Olen
who had said just a small blurb. So, I mean Rod Olson had talked about the public comment. So, next to his name, you could have put he made a comment
asking for a small uh sort of blur about the different residents who came to public comment. Um, Mr. Jack Douglas made a comment that was important regarding the city charter. So by
listing all their names as coming up for public comment doesn't say anything. This document is is filed. So when anybody looks at it, they see all these names. They say, "Well, what was what was said?"
Commissioner, we went by what was outlined in the resolution that was approved last meeting. So I have the resolution. So kind of point to me that that was the only that that we literally agreed to that. Uh the items listed to be shown on the minutes are in that list on the
resolution. Again, show me where we said only names. It says the name shall be listed of the public commenters. Okay. The name is listed. Who provided a public comment? Minutes
shall include detail. Minutes shall not include detailed discussions, debate, personal opinions, comments, attacks, disagreements, characterizations of discussion, or remarks of council members or the
public. The meeting the meeting minutes shall be written in a concise, neutral and professional style and provide an action summary in accordance with this resolution. That is what I understood that it would
just have a small written concise of of of a remark that was made that I feel that was important like we just had all these public comments.
So I just make one little note. Uh Dr. Moyer, he talked about global uh crisis. Um Mr. Leroy Bell, environmental assessment. Um,
well, Jack Douglas said he'll wait for that. Um, Rod Olson about the strategic planning. Just something that tells me why they came up to public comment. I know I agreed on this, but I didn't
know. I don't think I agreed that just their names would be listed with no information. Yeah, we went specifically what was provided in the resolution and that was voted on last week. I know you keep going back to that, but it says the format of the minutes.
The meeting minutes shall be written in a concise, neutral, and professional style and provide an action summary in accordance with this resolution. Correct. The action summary is the motion that was made, who motion, the
second, and what the vote was. And Commissioner Velasquez too, this is what I was debating against last time that you had voted the affirmative for. And it specifically says minutes shall not include detailed discussions, debate, personal opinions, comments, attacks, comments. It specifically says it's not
going to include comments. So when I was going through all of this, okay, so this is something that was so important that um other than you know I did agree to this but I
actually thought that there would be a small sentence to say at least what they what they were saying whatever it is. Why wasn't that brought up last when that meeting though? So comments I you know because there was
so much going on about that and I I do realize minutes shall not include detailed discussions, debate, personal opinions, attacks, disagreements, but just comments. Yeah. And and I think again the the
policy was brought forth for voting was to try and uh provide professional concise minutes reflecting the actions of the meeting. It's very hard for staff to summarize some of these comments which is why it led to many discussions up at the
dis but it's not it was it wasn't hard for me right now just one word um but but ma'am Mr. Ian Kimbo came up, it was about the water increase. That's all except that you're assuming that that
commenter would agree with your summary and that's the whole point of this is to avoid that. You said somebody spoke about environmental issues. What if they come up and say that's not what I talked about. That's what we're trying to avoid and that's why Miss Bone proposed the policy. And so that's the issue. Who
gets to decide when someone speaks for three minutes of the three minutes what words summarize the comments? That's the whole issue. That's it. I did a whole presentation on this exact issue of that there was words being changed or maybe reflected in a way that the speaker didn't prefer. And that was
the problem is that we were running into those issues time after time after time for years. I've been advocating for this to to be it properly recorded if we're going to record it. And then again, I was the only one that voted against this because it didn't provide detail of what our residents are speaking about. And
this is an official record. So what this should have been brought up when we voted on this. I understand about the detail. It is a lot. But here I had Dr. Oh, who came up loss of canopy trees. Um uh Mr. Ian Kimble
came about the water uh inc about the water increase Kelly parking to change eminent domain. I mean those are things that I feel just little blurs would at least you know what they were talking about
but to list all their names and have nothing else. But that's what you voted for. I didn't because I didn't and I will say this then I did not realize that comments it wouldn't be reflected at all.
Yeah. So to can I at least I'm I'm it's your policy. So it is my policy but right now I feel like I'm being told this is it. You voted for it. Now, I voted for it because I believed that we were trying
to get away from a very detailed because we were with the city uh clerk. It takes a lot for her to kind of write and summarize, but we wanted to be able to at least have a oneliner to express whatever at
least subject matter. The Thank you. the subject matter that was being addressed. That's it. And all I'm saying is if you want to reopen the matter, any one of you could make a motion to reopen the matter and revise the policy or make a motion to ask that
the uh clerk go back and revise the policy in accordance with whatever you all agree to and see where it goes. That's what I'm saying. I'm not saying you did or didn't vote on it or I don't that's not what I'm saying. So the only thing I would like to remove from here is comments because I feel
that the city clerk has been with us for a very long time. and she's been sitting here. She can highlight what the public speaker is saying, but to completely eliminate and just give us a list of of
those who came up from doesn't say anything to me. So to let you finish. So yes, I would just like to remove the word comics from that. So do I have to make a motion for that before? Yeah. Yes. before you make that because it's something you all voted on.
So in so full transparency, I'm looking back at the presentation attached to it action minutes for example for city of Orlando and also for Orange County. It's exactly how the new minutes that we agreed upon to be recorded. It's just
list names and the example shows the names and it was attached to the presentation because I want to look back myself to actually see again just and what you're asking is exactly what we were I was advocating for last time is to make sure that it was properly heard when the resident spoke that it was properly recorded in the minutes is
exactly what I was advocating for and that previous minutes didn't properly reflect that either. So that's the issue. I wasn't finished speaking. So in addition to that, I think the issue is once again if
her interpretation of what was said, we're going to be back to the same issue again. It's her interpretation. If if you don't agree with her interpretation, it's just how do we get away from this this this circle of not saying that she's been she's not been I mean, she's been
accused of not being honest, you know, not recording what citizens are saying because it's her interpretation. So, we can never have a clear I mean, I don't know how we can have a policy to tell how to interpret a public comment where we're all going to agree upon it because we all can hear the same sentence and
have a different interpretation of what the residents said. So, what is something that we're Susan, our clerk, is not being called? Well, I think the issue was from the very beginning that um some of the residents wanted a more
detailed um presentation of the minutes which I believe didn't need to be done. We didn't need to include the uh personal opinions or the attacks or the disagreements or the characterizations
of the discussion or remarks toward individual uh council members. But when you have someone that comes up um as I remember from the last council meeting um which was and I keep going
back to um Mr. Jack Douglas, he was he came specifically for the city charter. So she could have wrote the city clerk or the staff could have written Jack Douglas, you know, public comment uh
city charter uh inquiry. I mean, those three little words would not have made a big deal that Mr. Jack Douglas would come and say, "Well, I didn't say that. I said so and so and said when all he did was ask about the city charter when it was going to be put on the on the
council board." I don't even remember what Miss Valerie Sparkman spoke about. Well, the meetings are recorded and they're recorded. You got YouTube. I mean, we're right back. We're going right back to where we were. So why don't we provide if to kind of meet in the middle
a little bit here is that you if a resident wants their a a a summation they provide it right before they speak they say I will be speaking about this this and this and this is what I want in a minute though that one sentence that topline sentence that says I'm speaking about the city charter utility rates and
and overdevelopment and then they go into their comment but that's what's recorded in the minutes their name and then that top line that is their own summation where nobody's making their summation. I still think that we have to protect
the integrity of these minutes and we have attached a copy of the example of state of Orlando. They gave us that as examples. Um and I I appreciate that we had those as examples. Um there was a lot of discussion with it. I hate to bring it
back up, but I'm just concerned that the list to provide just a list of those who came up for public comment with nothing attached to them. Um, doesn't doesn't make any sense.
Well, you were in the affirmative when you voted on this, so you do have the power to remotion this and bring it back up if that's what you so choose to do. Well, I would ask them to make a motion to have the city clerk review this. My only I'm not dispelling any of the why
we did this. I'm just the comments. That's all. Just a little blurb about why that person came up. It's a motion to them, not me. If you make a motion, somebody seconds it then it's on the floor for discussion and you go from there.
Right. All right. So, that's what I'm going to do. Make a motion for discussion because I'd like the city clerk to review this again for discuss just for just for comments for discuss. Can you clarify your motion?
All right. I know he gets I know you get very short with me, but the truth is no. It's just I'm not I'm not going to approve the minutes as is because I don't feel that the list provides or the minutes provides at least some
information about why they came up here. So, so can I make the motion just to have the city clerk review it? The the issue before you look before we get too wrapped around the axle is approval of minutes that according to everybody who's spoken is exactly what
the policy is. That's so these minutes comply with the policy that you you passed 4 to one. So these minutes based on anything I've heard should not be a point of discussion. But what could be a point of discussion because you voted in favor of you you could move to
reconsider the adoption of the policy and ask if you get see if anyone will second that and then try to come up with a a different version of the policy if that's what you choose to do. But right now what's in on the table is approval of the minutes in front of you, not the policy. But we can table the minutes
until you get we get a policy that makes sense. We don't have to. You could, but it wouldn't change the minutes that are in front of you. We don't have to approve them tonight. No, that's true. You understand? But if we don't approve the minutes
tonight, doesn't mean that we going to go back and change the minutes because they met the policy. Is that correct? That's correct. That's what I'm saying. Right. So I I mean I don't want to table them because I can't change them right now, but going forward I'd like to
public comments. I mean I have one little liners. I mean it's too late to change these but I don't want to keep having minutes with just a list of correct people. That's where you would reintroduce the discussion of the policy. Okay. And we don't follow Robert's rules of
order here. Correct. No, we do not. Okay. Okay. So, I would like to motion that we reconsider the minute making policy to update what's taken in specific to public comment. Well, I think we need to approve the minutes first before we address.
There's a motion on the table. There's a motion on table. The motion order. We don't have an order. I've been asking for one for years. I have no choice, but he'll move forward. I'm not gonna vote
for these minutes. So, I'm just gonna We need a second for my motion. Oh, okay. Second for what? For your motion to uh relook at the minute making policy to adjust for the comments that the public makes and how we report that.
Okay, I'm going to second by Commissioner to second by Commissioner Velasquez. All is in favor. Uh well, it's going to be three to two. I can hear correct. It's okay to stand alone when we're doing the right thing. So, got what was your what was your vote, Commissioner?
I'm going to say I I second and I said I Okay. So, all those opposed. I Yeah, there it is. Okay. Three to two. Okay. Back to the minutes. Look for a motion to approve the minutes as read. I need to make one adjustment to these uh minutes. Okay.
It's on page Start looking for it. Going back to it. Sorry, I was switching back and forth. It was specific to the close period. when we went over the
transferable gym. So, business action number one, it specifically states that Commissioner Smith asked for a motion to not accept and I think it's say Mayor Nelson asked for a motion not to accept and I think Commissioner Smith um motioned it and it was second by Commissioner Anderson if I remember
correctly. So, wait, let me see what on page three of that. Okay. Where it should say Mayor Nelson asked for a motion and it says Commissioner Smith asked for a motion. Okay. Just a small adjustment to accurately
reflect the minutes. Okay. With those changes to the minutes. Look for a motion to approve. Got a motion by Commissioner Smith. Second. Second by Commissioner Anderson. All those in favor? All opposed. Motion.
Nay. So we got three to two with Smith, Anderson, and Nelson in the affirmative and Velasquez and Nea in opposition. Okay, we got eight consent agenda items. Uh would anybody like to pull those either from the DAS or from the public?
If not, look for a motion to approve the eight consent agenda items. No, the only uh Mr. Williams, the one thing that I asked for, not expecting tonight, but just on the dispersal report, there was a we discussed this, a pool leak test for Camp Weiwall, and I
just wanted to make sure that we discussed that at some point or if I can get the results of that just to understand what that looks like moving forward. Correct. I'm pulling those results and I'll share them with the council. Perfect. Thank you. So moved. Got a motion by Commissioner Neesa. Second. Second by Commissioner Anderson.
All those in favor. All oppose. Motion carries unanimous. All right. Public hearing ordinance resolutions. Ordinance number 3072 Cliff. Ordinance number 3072. An ordinance of the city of Apakka,
Florida. Submitting to the electors of Apka proposed amendments to the city charter of the city of Apakka. Providing ballot titles, summaries, and text for the proposed charter amendments. Providing directions to the city clerk. Providing for severability. Providing
for an effective date for approved amendments, providing for an effective date of the ordinance. All right, council. We are on the second and what should be the final reading of the charter amendment uh ordinance so
that we can get it on the ballot. The uh questions I'm going to ask you essentially one final time uh to approve. We could say do you just want to vote on the ordinance? But because each of these questions is significant and I want to make sure you've had the opportunity to consider them so I don't
just randomly throw out an ordinance and you didn't say you had a chance to vote on each one or consider each one. We'll go back through those questions again. I would remind you they've all been through the first go round of of readings, but but it's probably still a good idea to do this and so we're going to question one is changing from mayor
council to council manager form of government. Um the explanation is that this charter amendment would change the form of the government from the current mayor council or otherwise known as strong mayor uh to the council manager form of government and would become effective once uh uh 120 days after
passage to allow for the hiring of a manager and transition transition to this form of government. The actual question is proposed or the proposal is proposed as changing from mayor, council to council, manager, form of government, allowing 120 days for transition. The
reason for the shortness of the question is you're only allowed to put in a a ballot uh question of 75 words or less. The summary has got to be 75 words or less. The the title has to be 15 words or less. And then it has to be followed
by the blanks that you see here. Yes or no. So that's going to be true for all of these. If someone says, "Well, why didn't you have more explanations?" Because the law does not allow a bigger explanation. But that's the first one. So does anybody wish to discuss leaving it or taking it off or do we proceed to
the next question? Why don't we I'm trying to think we want to go through all of them and then and then open up for public comment. That's fine. I can do that. Okay, let's do that. Okay. Question number two is changing the name of the governing body from council to commission explanation. This
charter amendment changes the name of the city's governing body from city council to city commission and the official designation of council member to commissioner. The proposal language is amending the name of the governing body from the city council to the city commission. As you recall when we did
this, the charter says it both ways and this would provide consistency throughout the charter to one one address which is commissioner if it's if it's approved. Uh question number three, the charter amendment would clarify the authority of the city clerk. Excuse me,
I should have done that. Uh the uh clarifying that the city clerk performs a ministerial function in reviewing candidate qualifying papers. The explanation is that it would show that the city clerk is not an investigative body and not a decision-making person.
But unrelated to this amendment, you all internally said that it would be the policy going forward. If a question came up about a candidacy or legitimacy of candidacy, she would bring it to your attention as an internal policy matter, not a part of the charter amendment. So that's question number three.
Question four, scheduled city elections. Uh obviously you recall that our current charter reads that elections are held on the first Tuesday in December, which nobody does. Uh, and so we're going to try to make the the uh language in the charter consistent with what we currently do, and that would be to move
it to the second Tuesday in March. The ballot title would be changing the date for regular city elections to the first Tuesday in March. Question five is term limits. Uh, this charter amendment would establish the first Tuesday in March or the second Tuesday in March.
It's the second Tuesday is what isn't that what it said? Let me go back. No, it says first Tuesday. Okay, that's the explanation. proposal doesn't Yeah, it it apparently didn't get changed here, but yes, it is supposed to be the second Tuesday. No, it is the second Tuesday in March, but it's the
first Tuesday in December is how it reads in the current charter. You follow me? Yeah, but you have it. Oh, I see that. It's it's it's not in the in the in the in the title. I see that. That's that's the that's a correction. Sure. That should say second
Tuesday in March, right? Okay. Okay. All right. So question number five, term limits. This charter amendment would establish term limits for all city commissioners and for the mayor of no more than two consecutive terms and prohibiting a term limited official from holding the same elected
office commissioner or mayor in the city again for a minimum of four years from the date they last served. The the uh title would be creating term limits for elected officials and establishing minimum period of ineligibility u after term limits. So that's question
five. Question six regards employment contracts. This charter amendment establishes that all city employees are at will employees subject only to any applicable collective bargaining agreement or an employment contract approved by a majority vote of the city
commission at a regularly scheduled meeting. The title would be establishing at will status of employees limiting employment contracts to those approved by commission. And last is this question number seven. Uh city clerk and city attorney. This
charter amendment establishes that the city clerk and the city attorney shall be appointed by and serve at the pleasure of the city commission. The ballot title is establishing that the city clerk and city attorney are appointed by the city commission and this would change obviously from the appointments which currently exist by
mayor and then approval by council. So that's amendment seven. So with oh she's there's eight. I forgot we had an a later add-on. Uh public comment was part eight. Uh the charter this charter amendment established that there shall be a public comment period before
decision items on a meeting agenda are considered by the city commission. The title would be establishing a public comment period before meeting decision items are considered by the city commission. And that's all of that. Um so the
question is what do you want to do? Are we good with these? Obviously, you can open for public comment and then come back to me and let me know, but we just need to know what is going to finally be approved so Miss Bone can get it to the supervisor of elections and get us on a scheduled election.
Okay. Any questions for Cliff? Just a couple here. The When was the first reading of these? Do you remember that? I don't remember. Maybe you misspose. I don't. Do you happen to know that off top of your head? Say that again. April 15th.
April 15th. That was the first reading. And was there any specific reason for the delay of bringing this back for a second reading? I don't know. No. Okay. So, that was a mayor decision,
council's decision, but Oh, so we have decisions of what goes on the agenda now. Anyone could have made a motion to bring it back earlier like Commissioner Smith did. It should have been brought up. I mean, just like everything, it should be brought to this cause delays again. So political delays
uh attorney the impact on the election. So this will be March 10th. When do the So the impacts take place of whatever may be approved 120 days thereafter. Want me the only one that that has a delay is the change to a council manager form of
government because if that's what the voters pass then you have to have a manager hired. I mean, it could be that it it is somebody we already have by that time, but but I can't know that. And since I can't know that, I've allowed a time period for it passes, you
start trying to look for candidates, interview, and then make a selection and hire that person. And that person gets trained essentially by the then mayor, who whomever that might be to do the job of city uh manager. So that would come in should it be approved by the
electorate this would come into play 120 days after March 10th. They would. Yes. That's when the mayor would no longer be a strong mayor under the form of government and the manager would be the one who makes most of the major decisions subject to review on certain decisions by the council.
Okay, understood. And then everything else would be as of that day. Uh everything else would be as of the time they pass. Correct. Okay. So that's the only one that has kind of a that's the only one that has a lead time because of the need to hire somebody to do the job. Okay, understood. Thank you.
My my question is uh on question number five, in reference to term limits, um you said that the person would not be eligible to hold in office for a period of four years for either commissioner or mayor. So, does that mean that if a
commissioner turned out would have to wait four years before they could run for mayor? No, we that that was clarified. It's it's for two cons consecutive offices for the same elected office. So, a commissioner couldn't be commissioner again, but could be a mayor. A mayor
couldn't be a mayor again, but could be a commissioner. All right. And that was we didn't have it that way initially. That's one of the ways y'all wanted it changed. Yes. Any questions on this end?
Okay. All right. Public comment. Mr. Douglas. Uh Jack Douglas, 2149 Eagles Drive. Uh, I'm sure glad we finally got this to the second reading. Um, and I appreciate those that uh that
pushed for it to get on to the second reading. Uh, and I know that that the staff is recommending uh that this be placed on the March um election. Uh, but I'd really like to see this in
the September 4th uh special election. Uh the council has budgeted for it to be on a special election. Uh I know that there's three people that have already said that they'd like to
run for election for the mayor slot. Uh it would be a shame that they would spend all that money uh running for the position and not know whether they're running for a full-time position or whether they're running for
a ceremonial position. I don't know how much it costs to run for a mayor slot, but I imagine it's probably about 70 or $80,000 times three. That's a lot of money.
Uh there may be even some of the positions up here that are not the mayor that might want to run for a ceremonial position. Seems that y'all may have professional careers and you might be able to run for the ceremony position
and feel like that you can make a difference to our city. Um but you're not going to have that ability because you don't know what you're running for. Um, and I just think it's important that
those at least those three people know ahead of time what they're running for. And I think the citizens should know that as well. Who are they who are they going to be voting for uh come March, whether they're they're
going to be voting for full-time mayor or whether it's going to be a ceremonial mayor. I asked you to consider that tonight when you vote on this that you should vote to have that
special election in September. The money's there. Let's get on with this. Thank you very much. [Music] supposed to Rock Springs Ridge.
Um, I'm trying to maintain my decorum because, you know, the last display we just had about public comment and now we're looking at the charter and these things. I brought it up before.
When we have a member of this d that's lying to the public, I won't say misinformation, that straight up tell a lie, that straight up abusing their power. There should be a procedure that every
citizen know how to make that change. that needs to be in the charter needs to be very clear because you're here to represent us the people. And so when you go out and tell a lie, when you go out and do something that's corrupt, the people need to know how to get rid of
you. They need to know that. That's how we stop corruption. But just as well as you do with public comment, you're doing the same thing here. You come up with this.
I can't understand how intelligent people can look at some at normal and know it's at normal and then try to do an intelligent discuss discussion on it. It just really pulls my hair out.
And I listened to the city administrator just saying, "Well, I don't see nothing wrong with the names, just just having names there instead of public comment." Now, I'm not going to insult his intelligence, but he would never be a city administration under me or any other
mayor who look at integrity because if he don't have the good gracious to see that that's wrong, to see that there should be something there, even if it's just a few words and then look at his response. When things like this happen, we need to
know how to get rid of that individual that's not serving the people and it's clear who he's serving. And for the citizens, you got to come in, show up, and show out. Use your voice.
You all have been brainwashed that you don't have any power. And that's the farthest thing from the truth. You have power. Make the motion. Be clear about it. Don't be walking both sides. Let's be
clear about it. So in this charter number nine, we need to have something how we can get rid of corrupt official that needs to be in the charter for the people to decide and people can see. Thank you 363 Golden Jab Road. We do have a
mechanism to get rid of officials who abuse their power. It's called a recall. However, there are problems with recalls. And the problem I see with a recall is a recall can only occur once a candidate
has been in an electric elected position for a period of time. And there we have a problem because during that period of time, can we change everything that they voted on? Probably not. probably
a sheriff or a judge would say they were elected and we would have a lot of difficulty changing decisions that they made, the votes that they took. Even if we believe the votes were inconsistent with with
what we believe in, I doubt we could change it. The problem occurred to a year and a half ago. and commissioners, you are responsible because it was brought to your attention at the time that we had reservations
about what happened. But none of you, and I say that again, none of you had the appetite to do anything about it. When I wanted to do something about it, I was told that I would have to take legal action in order to do something
about it. I'm just an ordinary citizen. I don't have bottomless pockets. I don't know the law. But what I do know is attorney Shepard sued some public. I think it was satlight beach when they took action against a a
city. So it doesn't fill us with confidence knowing that we've got to do your jobs. Now as far as Mr. Douglas is concerned, I wholeheartedly concur with him in what he said. We really need this decision to
go into the September election, not not next year. Why? Because I would have to ask our mayor, if he was only going to be a ceremonial mayor, would he even stand for the position? And that question will affect how I
would vote for other candidates. So, please, let's cut out all the delays that we've had. These delays were deliberate. We know perfectly well it was a game the same as now public comment has been reinstated at the beginning of the
meetings. It's a game. It's a game because it's on the charter and you weren't going to have a choice with it anyway. So, let's cut the crap. Let's get down to business and do what we need to do. Leroy Bale, you know, I found it. I find
it real funny that with the charter amendment that's coming on it's it seemed to be on this dasis it seemed to be more important to the ones that's sitting on the dasis
what are their chances the good chances of how they can run again versus how that they should respond to the citizens back to the public comments We had one commissioner just said uh
it's just her interpretation of what somebody said. If I got up here and said something about the ESA, the environmental study assessment.
What interpretation would that be for all five to get that same interpretation and put it in the comments? We need to we need to focus on the charter. I'm focusing on the comments. That's what I'm doing. And this is about the charter amendment. This is about the charter amendment.
You didn't say that to anybody else, did you? Did you? Corruption. This what it's all about. This is about control because you got everybody believing that they supposed to work together up there. That ain't what the sunshine laws say. Everybody up
there supposed to work for the citizens. But everybody up there, three seem to want to work for you. And that's the only thing that you want to happen here. But what I want to happen here is this, the strong mayor.
We don't need one. You have one commissioner say, "Oh, we got a strong mayor." If we had a strong mayor, we wouldn't have rates going out of out of control. We wouldn't have flooded streets. We wouldn't have a bad infrastructure. The only thing that we got is bad representation.
It seems to be that we can get stuff on the agenda about payraises other than what's need to be put on the amendment for the the benefit of the citizens. You ought to be ashamed of yourself
and and I pray Commissioner Smith I pray you ain't got to worry about next to come March to Mr. Ducklings are a point. I hope that you do it in September. So you and
Smith be gone. Yeah, I see it. Now we you're you got your I'm sorry. I I need to correct something. I said I said September, right? I meant November. I know that you can't make a September, right? I meant November. I know.
Anybody else public? Okay. All right. So, now back to the amendments. U we'll go at them go through them one at a time. Um so is there I mean is there a way we
definitely can't do September. Correct. There's no way for us to get on that ballot. No. Okay. And then so the the point that was made is bring it to November. Is that doable? Is that possible? Have we looked into that?
We haven't we haven't checked. I my personal reason for March is I think you'll get what everybody talks about is voter turnout. If all you've got people coming out for charter amendments, you're not going to have near the turnout that you would for mayor and and two other commissioners um
running for office, you know, but you may be surprised. People are not happy with utility rate increase and things of that nature. they'll come out and we've already budgeted for it as well. So, we can spend the money. We absolutely can spend money.
We've already budgeted it. It's still spending money. But I I'm leaving on March, but it's uh it's the will of the council. But whatever y'all would like to do, we we have two things that need to be
decided then. Which ballot we're going to go for. And may may I suggest that if the preference for the majority would be the November ballot that it should be since we cannot know tonight whether we can make the November ballot until Miss Bone can check tomorrow that you would
make the motion in the alternative if available November if not March because that would be the next one. But the second thing is what is what are we going to put on it? Whichever date it is. Is it going to be all of the eight questions or is it going to be some of the eight questions? Yeah, we're going to go down the list, but I mean I guess
we can I mean whatever whatever the I guess let's go to the first one which you just brought up which is whether the date uh December or November December I mean that the November date I know that that um city of Orlando is odd year November
I think is that the only I mean there's nobody else nobody else is in November on an odd year so you know um but it's it's it's the Well, the the council, but it's how what was the what was the the total cost? I mean,
we're talking about spending money. You know, let's roughly 14 14,000. So, be so it' be 14,000 on top. We're still going to have to do the March election regardless. So, it's another 14,000. So, we've just we've saved
14,000 by not by waiting till March. But what whatever the will of the council is, what would y'all like to do? I I move that we have the city clerk to see if it's possible to have the election in the November election and if
not then we use March as alternate. Okay. Okay. Got a motion by Commissioner Smith to to look at uh the November whatever date that is um I guess would mirror city of Orlando. Um it's got a motion by
Commissioner Smith. Second by Commissioner Anderson. All those in favor. All oppose. Motion carries unanimously. Okay. Now, let's go down the the list of um the questions and just see where we we stand. So, the first the first question is uh changing
uh from mayor, council to council, manager, form of government. What would y'all like to do with that one? Keep it on. Keep it. So, we got couple. All right. Anybody else? Keep it on. So,
we got three. Uh, so we I guess let's um we probably just do them all then. Let's say uh is there any Let me ask this. Are there any of the other What we got? Eight. Eight. It's eight total. Eight. Eight. Any of the other eight that you
um would like to take off? Is everybody good with all eight of them? Anybody got a question about any of the other seven? Then if not then I move that we place all eight items on the ballot. Okay. Either the November if we can get
it on November. If not it would go into the March. So that would be the motion would be to approve on second reading ordinance number Yeah. 3072 is it? Yep. And that's the motion. So because that's how it reads now is all eight.
So I got a motion to second. All those in favor. All oppose. Motion carries. Now thank you. Okay. Next up, ordinance number 3110 for future land use amendment summit at Wolf Plate Ranch.
Ordinance number 3110. An ordinance of the city of Apopka, Florida, amending the f future land use element of the Apopka comprehensive plan of the city of Apopka. Changing the future land use designation from mixeduse to residential very low
suburban for certain real property owned by Lutz David L. Life estate Lutz Mary L. Mary T Life Estate Remm David M. Lutzm Michelle M. Gregory Ponamp Pines Nursery
Inc. Generally located north of Ponan Road, west of Ponan Pines Road and Jason Dwelli Parkway, comprising of 21.43 acres more or less providing for severability conflicts and an effective date. Good evening, Jean Sanchez with the
community development department. This is a request to accept the first reading of ordinance number 3110 and hold it over for second reading amending the future land use designation for mixed use to residential very low suburban for the summit at Wolf Lake
Ranch. The subject property is situated north of Bonan Road, west of Bonan Pines Road and west of Jason Dwelli Parkway approximately 21.4 acres in size. The applicant seeks to amend the future
land use designation from mixed use, which permits up to 15 dwelling units per acre, to residential very low suburban, which allows up to two dwelling units per acre. The proposed land use is intended to facilitate a future reszoning and residential
development consistent with adjacent phases of the Wolf Lake Ranch community. subject site is currently undeveloped and designated mixed use on the adopted future land use map. Property is located west of the existing Wolf Lake Ranch
phases one and two and is anticipated to be developed as phase three of the community. The proposed residential very low suburban designation more appropriately reflects the context of surrounding lowdensity single family neighborhoods and the vision for the western segment of Bon and Pines Road.
With that said, the DRC recommends approval at its meeting on August 12th, 2025. The planning commission unanimously recommended approval of the change in future land use designation from mixed use to residential very low suburban. The recommended motion is to
accept the first reading of ordinance number 3110 and hold it over for second reading and adoption. Staff and applicant are available for questions. Any questions for Jean? I do have a quick question. Well, couple questions here. The current zoning is
mixed use. The current future land use designation. Excuse me. Thank you. Yeah. Do we know when that occurred? When that change occurred? Um, it's just it's a weird spot for mixed use with such kind of a higher density, especially north of Ponan, that this would that that would have been
approved, right? Um, I couldn't find any record. Um, all I found was the last time that we adopted our future, our comprehensive plan and the map is really difficult to discern. Um, so obviously it preceded
all our time here, staff time here. So I'm not sure how it became a mixeduse site. Um, but it's inappropriate for that area. Okay. And this in the total units is 40
42 for this phase and it's because they are um it's it's two dwelling units per acre. So the 21 it's 21 acres in size. Okay, understood. And then they'll have they'll do some road improvements in front of their property as well presumably if needed.
Yes, sir. As as required, they'll go through the regular development review um process. Yes. And so it's kind of a down zoning so to speak as well. Less intense use. It is. Okay, understood. Thank you. Any other questions for Jean?
So I'm going to recuse myself again from voting on this because I do represent clients that is in phase one and looking to purchase in phase two. So I'm going to recuse myself from this for voting. So be sure to fill out the floor. Okay. Okay. Anybody else? Okay. Anybody from the public wish to speak on this one?
If not, close the public hearing. Look for a motion to adopt ordinance number 3110 at first reading and hold over for a second reading and adoption. So motion by Commissioner Velasquez, second by Commissioner Smith. All those in favor? I. All oppose. Motion carries unanimously.
With um one with with one abstension by Commissioner Anderson. Next up, ordinance number 3111. Ordinance number 3111. An ordinance of the city of Aapka, Florida, changing the zoning from MUSBT
mixeduse gateway east to RSF1B residential single family large lot for certain real property owned by Lutz David L. Life estate Lutz Mary T life estate David M Lutzm Michelle M Gregory Ponan
Pines Pines Nursery Inc. Generally located north of Ponan Road, west of Ponan Pines Road and Jason Dwelli Parkway, comprising 21.43 acres more or less providing for severability complex and an effective date. Gene, for the record, Jean Sanchez with the
community development department. This is the reasonzoning companion of the proceeding item. It's a request to accept the first reading of ordinance number 3111 and hold it over for second reading. This changes the zoning designation from MUEGT mixeduse
eastshore gateway to RSF-1B residential single family large lot for the summit at Wolf Lake Ranch. The applicant requests this resoning to facilitate the development of the a low density detached family residential
subdivision. Um the proposed development will consist of 42 single family lots consistent with the character and density of the adjacent Wolf Lake Ranch phases one and two. The reasonzoning request is consistent with the goals and policies of the comprehensive plan.
Therefore, RSF-1B is compatible with the residential very low suburban future land use designation and the surrounding land use pattern. The site is envisioned as phase three of the Wolf Lake Ranch community, providing a seamless continuation of the development in this
area. The DRC recommends approval. At its meeting on August 12, 2025, the planning commission unanimously recommended approval of the change of zoning. Therefore, the recommended motion is to accept the first reading of ordinance number 311 and hold it over
for second reading and adoption. Staff and applicant are available for questions. Any questions for Jeanie? Anybody from the public wish to speak on this one? Not close public. Okay. Rod Olsson, 3156 Rolling Hills Lane. All
this is only 42 units, generates 15 students. has 15 students on top of the 400 that you are in process for Beluchcci acres. We removed 44 trailers from the Wolf Lake campus just this last
year. With the addition of these two groups, you're looking at putting them back on again. They aren't as safe. They're more expensive to operate. Thank you. Thank you. Sure. Again, I recuse myself from this vote as well. Yep. Yep. Okay. All right. Anybody else?
If not, we'll close the public hearing. Look for a motion to approve ordinance number 311 at first reading and hold over for a second reading and adoption. So move. Got a motion by Commissioner Smith. Second.
Second by Commissioner Velasquez. All those in favor? I. All opposed with one abstension by Commissioner Anderson. So forward four for it and one abstension. Okay. Thank you. All right. Next up, ordinance number 3115.
Ordinance number 3115. An ordinance of the city of Apakka, Florida, establishing a sunset date for article 5 of chapter 66 of the Apakka code of ordinances pertaining to local business taxes providing for the automatic repeal of the requirement for
local business tax receipts and all related provisions of the Apopka code of ordinances on October 1, 2025 providing for cotification, severability, conflicts, and an effective date. All right. You want to take it take it from here?
Absolutely. Absolutely. Antonet Forbes, economic development director. So, in reference to the local business tax, just to give a little bit of background, there was an ordinance number 3115 that looked to repeal chapter 66, article 7 of the code
of uh ordinance that pertained to local business tax, which was introduced at the July 2nd, 2025 commission meeting. Um, it basically talked about that no BTRs or business tax receipts would be required for any businesses, professions or occupations with the intended sunset
date being end of the fiscal year, which is September 30th. There was concerns expressed specifically by the incoming economic development director about the ability to gather data on existing and new businesses for business retention, expansion, and recruitment purposes. And
so from that, the commission's last council's direction was to continue the item till the first reading of August 20th in order to allow staff time to do further research. So during that research, there were several considerations, both pros and cons. I'll present to you now. Um on the
pro side, it is definitely an entrepreneur friendly policy because for our smaller entrepreneurs, you're talking your startups, which are um your um smaller businesses. This even though it may seem small, this fee can somewhat prove burdensome, financially burdensome
to them if they are a startup. It also helps streamline the process because it reduces the administrative workload of paperwork as well as compliance that's associated with getting a BTR, particularly for homebased businesses. On the con side, uh the potential loss
of business data to showcase things such as the business type, the industry, the size, the contact information that there could be an impact on programming simply because trying to identify these businesses may prove a hindrance without that data. and also benchmarking in
terms of the number of businesses that are registered, the amount of employees that they have in order to set how how we are able to progress in our economic development activities based on that benchmark. Another consideration I believe that was
mentioned at the July 2nd meeting um was data retrieval um through fire permits. However, that would exclude homebased businesses and therefore would not be considered a standalone option. However, after researching staff has found that there are some in alternative and
complimentary solutions to gather that data. So, one of them for example is Orange County. Orange County still collects business tax receipts and so all of businesses would still be required to register through the county and we are able not only staff but the
public is able to obtain that listing at no cost. they have it available on their website and I have tested it out and it does provide the information that we need including not just business name but also the industry the address as well as the primary source of contact uh
through our partnership with the Orlando Economic Partnership the OEP which we are already a paid member we're also able to get access to some of their paid subscriptions at no cost to us and then of course there's also a um database called a Toz anyone who has a library
card which of course is free are able to obtain this demographic research. So for those small businesses looking to do marketing for example, you get a plethora of data from that. Um so these are just some examples of how we're able
to and by we I mean me obtain the information that eliminating the BTR will be able to do. I want to disclose that it will take a little additional time because we now need to cipher through some of the information but we do have access to it. And I just said that. So in conclusion,
alternative data collection is possible and that there are most multiple sources that can satisfy social, economic, and demographic data needs for economic development purposes. And I'm available for any questions. Any questions for internet?
So, I know that we spoke about that um uh suns setting the BTR and you're saying that you have access to all these other resources, but you're one person, right? So, in reality, you're going to need someone else to kind of do the research
because when we brought you on board was so that you can kind of help us develop our businesses here. And this obviously takes a lot of time because we actually had a vendor with two staff members keeping up with the BTR.
So, I mean, I'm willing to say, "Okay, sunset it, but I'm not expecting you to be able to do all the resources." Um, so how do we handle that? Well, we're still trying to formulate what Mrs. Forbes is, you know, her
ultimate role is and who who's her support team. But you had a I can so as so as I had previously mentioned to the commission by um in levels of priority, it is our existing businesses first. We need to figure out where they are established, how we can
help them, and then what resources that we can bring in to help them expand and grow. That is always my always top priority. You're that was specific to businesses already in place. Correct. Okay. Correct. who are businesses in place, what industries are they in, how many employabases
that I had mentioned, I am now able to contact those businesses in order to gain additional data. So, that would be part of our what's called a BR program, our business retention expansion program. Will you be using previous BTR data at
all to help you in that endeavor? So, I'm still searching for what data we have in place. Fortunately, we're able to do one final what I'll call draw down of our existing database before this sunset. So, that'll give me a good baseline. Okay.
So, previously previous to you being here uh and previous to our previous economic development director as well, this was pushed very hard to have a BR program to hire a vendor to have staff specifically working on it. So it's it
doesn't make sense why now it's being so pushed the opposite now whereas because I was advocating and saying look this is a cost to our businesses in an uncertain economic time similar to now. So why the change now? So my role is to do was at the will of the commission. So if the commission
decides that if they would like to eliminate this program then I will find a way to get the data that I need. But one of the things I know that you and I talked about is the the economic trends of business. Right. So a lot of businesses don't operate the way they did even four or five years ago. Co
taught us that we can work from anywhere. So your traditional business that is in a brickandmortar or warehouse, now they can operate out of the comfort of their home and simply have a warehouse space that houses their products, that sort of thing. And so what's important for me is to now find
out from our businesses as they trend and they shift, how are we able to help them grow? How do we assist them? And it's not always financial. if it's a issue of accessibility in order to find out if they're looking and I'm trying not to use acronyms. So if they're
trying to do more businessto business marketing, if they need help with finding employees because that was a big issue for a very long time, people find qualified talent. If there's an issue with access to capital and we need to serve as a liaison between a uh lending
institution and the business, but I don't know what our businesses need yet before I can formulate a program. So, first things first is we I need to start that um that contact with our businesses so I can learn. Now, my intention is to wait after our um strategic planning
because I don't want to bombard our businesses with more surveying if they're already we're doing that portion of it. But thereafter, that starts the contact of okay, hey, we are here, the city's here, we're here to help you, but we kind of need to know first who are you and what you need.
And then I I totally understand and get that. And one of the conversations we had early on um with your interview as well as when you were here uh in July was BTRs. That was a huge tool for you to be successful. It also built efficiencies in your job and ability to
get things done. And so my concern is that we're taking a director level position and having you do administrative level busy work so to speak when we have a system already in place that is going to provide you with the tools to be successful not for yourself although it will help but for
our residents and our business owners. And so that's my concern is that we're taking away a tool that you had said this is so valuable to me. This this does great things for me. So, I don't understand why we would even consider this yet until because you're still building foundational work in your
department. So, why would we start taking tools away from you until you are fully up and running? And then maybe a year, two years, three years from now, you say, "Hey, we don't need that one. That one I'm good. I got a good handle on that one now." Not that you're not proficient, but let's give you all the tools now to make sure that you're successful, stay out of your way, let
you do what you need to do because you're the expert in it, right? So, that's my concern with this comes down to that. Although I appreciate that you are looking at alternatives to get the job done, we have a way that was pushed very hard on us two or three
years ago by the administration and now all of a sudden it wants to go away and I'm very concerned that we hired you and you said this is a component of what's going to make you successful and now we're going to strip it away from you. So I don't see how we can make your department successful and take this
away. Can we massage the program a little bit? Absolutely. I'm totally open to that. But taking this away completely, I think is a disservice to you, our residents, and all of our business owners and new business owners. So again, I appreciate your hard work on this and I know you you're still getting
your feet wet with the city of Aka, but I think you had said it best that it's one of your biggest best tools to be able to know what vendors or what businesses are coming into our city. So I I really think we need to keep this. Again, maybe we massage it in some way and if you have any ideas in that, let us know. But I think getting rid of it
completely and sunsetting it I think is a huge mistake for us. Mr. Smith, if I recall the conversation we started talking about collecting this business tax receipt, it was presented to us that we leaving money on the table. Not so
much that it was a tool. And so I'm not sure how or if we even use this previously as a tool other than to collect some additional funds. So that that's
if if there's a way to obtain the same information uh without taxing uh businesses um for money collection purposes, then I'm all for it. Mr. last.
Well, I' I've already expressed my concern is that she has expressed that there are other resources in which she can obtain this information, same information. But my concern is I don't want her to be the one doing that administrative work
because we didn't hire her for that. Um, we hired you for the bigger picture. Um, and you don't have a staff right now, right? And so and and I will kind of repeat what uh Commissioner Netor said
was that when we first interviewed you, you did say that the BTRs was a good resource tool for you. Um so I don't know what's changed. Well, I think what she's, you know, Orange County, we've got access, she's
got immediate access to Orange Counties, which is the same list of BTRs you have to have. If you have a BTR, you have to have one for the county and then one for the city. Obviously, if you're only in the county, you only have to have a BTR for the county. So, the county has all the same should have all the same um
businesses. Correct. And it also includes homebased businesses as well. So, I've already downloaded a a subset and I've been able to filter it out for a popka only businesses. So, now part of my data mining is figuring out our composition of businesses. So I'm looking, okay, how
many are classified as manufacturing? How many are classified as it? So that's the the danger mining piece that I'm doing in reference to um leaving money on the table. I kind of covered all the things leaving money on the table. So economic development doesn't get any of
that money. So for you know, it wasn't really um revenue for us. For for me, it was always about just the data. If you remove the fee but still require the BTR, my concern is that businesses will not participate, there's nothing that
holds them accountable to do so. Um, but that being said, I will it is at the will and the pleasure of the council. So, if it's something you decide you want to continue, great. If not, I will find a way to get it done. My concern is again
we have two staff members and a vendor. Um I realize that there are some fees involved but there's I mean it keeps them busy all day long. And so if we always had access to Orange County then why did we push for the
vendor three years ago? Well the two cost us the staff members cost us you know that's probably Rather, what would you say? At least I mean, I'm not saying they don't have other duties, but one of at least one of the majority of their their time is
BTRs, but but two of them probably the salary alone has got to be north of 200,000, you know, with benefits, the two two staff members. That be Yeah, I'd have to pull the exact numbers, but
I'm not you're not disputing that, but it's it would be under two, mayor. to have to have the BTR uh department. We because we didn't have it before. We didn't have anyone the the vendors came on their own and
they were paying for the BTR, but then it was kind of introduced to us that we had to have this vendor. the vendor came and we need to get collecting, you know, we need to find all our businesses in the city and now all of a sudden it's we
don't need it. So, can I say that? Let me let me go back to that because you know they were having a hard time finding people. They were having a hard time collecting the money that that was owed us. So, sorry. So it was so the reason we went
to the to the outside contractors because we weren't collecting near what the percentage of the small businesses and businesses in in a pocket that we should have been. So, it's like, so we we hire a contractor to come in and help us and and and obviously he's he's done
a good job, but we're paying him a percentage and and so then but the the when you step back and say, okay, what's the the real goal of a BTR if it's just to to raise, you know, to to get tax dollars, I'm not sure that's the reason we want it. Now, yeah, I I was the one
that, you know, pushed to get we've had the BTRs forever. What I pushed for was if we're going to do it, let's let's get bring somebody in that can actually collect the money that that's that that we're owed and and he was doing a good job. So, it's nothing against, you know, the team, not only the employees have
done a good job, but he's done a good job. But it's it's the question is, okay, if all we're doing this for is to raise money, if we got the the resources at the county or whatever level to get the same data, which is what, you know, Miss Forbes needs to make make her program work, then why why are we spend
all this money that's just basically we're just turning money? We're taking their their whatever $50 and we're spending $50 to $75 on overhead to get the money. It makes no sense. So, let's we've got the data there that we need to
to to for for Miss Forbes to be successful and without that I think it it's it's gives us her a selling tool. Hey, we don't have BTRs. Come on to a popkin. We're we're you know, we're business friendly. Come on, we're we're here for you. Well, I think it's clear and I think the point of having an economic development director and
department already shows that we are business friendly and entrepreneur friendly. And not having a BTR, this data that is quickly available to our economic development director causes delays in getting resources to our new vendors or our new business owners in the area when time is money, they need
quick access to this. And if I have somebody a director level position that's scrubbing data, that's going to cause so much more delays. And we're just moving costs from one department to another effectively. And again, it's a oneperson department. So that's the concern is that we're
moving funds around at this point. And there's fixed and variable costs built into the costs that come in. We're not paying the vendor that's doing the BTRs unless they bring in money. So, it's not like we're just spending that fixed. It's only when they produce income we do it. And again, it was stated multiple
times, this is a valuable tool for this department to be successful. And the when our this department successful, all of our residents are successful. So we don't you've said it there's there's you're still figuring out what to do with this next until we have a concrete plan other than you're going to go
through pages and pages and pages of data. I don't think that's a plan and when are you going to have time to do everything else that your job is. It's we're paying you a premium well worth it to do administrative level stuff. So again, let's massage the
business tax receipt, maybe the cost, things of that nature. But again, this is about access to data quickly, clean data, scrubbed data that this department desperately needs and has said it multiple times. So either something's changed or we're doing something different that
this department doesn't need. The only thing I will say is that we've been doing this for three years. So, we haven't established uh businesses already that are in the city of Apakka. My only concern, I keep
saying the same thing. We did not bring you on to kind of research to use this as a re to use other resources to make your department successful. if the mayor would at least guarantee that one of those staff members will be part of the
your department that will continue to access different resources then that that's then I can see sunsetting this because then we wouldn't need the vendor and we wouldn't need two staff employees but to have an employee one of the
employees because we already have established the businesses with the BTR program we have, but I we did not hire you to actually go out and look for this. Okay. So, that that would be the only
way that I can sunset this is is that you get a staff member to be responsible for the BTRs, finding the BTRs. We'll have to We'll look at I mean budget's coming up next council meeting. So that's But you mean that would we're just
moving We're just moving a staff member. What? We're just moving a staff member that's already assigned. I It's not assigned to her. No, but it's assigned to the BTR because I do know one staff member that's all that one
staff member does the BTRs. Correct. Um, and the other staff member is really a supervisor and she does sort of the backup and she does the DCR board and the Yeah. So, that's the only way that I would even consider this because I we did not
hire you to do this administrative work. We have someone that's doing this already. Okay. Okay. Commissioner Anderson. No, good. Okay. All right. Anybody from the public wish to speak on this one? Alberta 3603 Golden Gem Road. I don't
always have anything constructive to say about issues here, but what I try and bring to the commission is the fact that we need to go over what we've done and if we've wasted time previously achieving something that we're now trying to destroy.
You'll perhaps correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't actually pay on an ongoing basis for someone to bring in the BTRs. They do it and we pay a percentage on the first year that they bring it in. After that we bring in the BTRs, we
don't pay again for it. So, it's not something that we're going to continue pay for to pay for. Again, I may not be correct, but did we not have a lot of discussion recently whether or not code enforcement could collect BTRs?
You know, how much time of the public, how much time of the administration is wasted because Peter doesn't know what Paul's doing. The left hand can't tell what the right hand's doing. Yeah,
we're thinking that the BTR only does one thing, but you know what? The BTR sets a standard. It means that people come in here know that we have rules and regulations and we expect them to keep
to those. If people aren't keen to pay their BTRs, then how certain am I going to be that they clean their kitchens? If you can't follow one rule, what makes
you special to follow the rest of the rules? Yeah. [Music] Anybody else? Sylvester Hall here again I'm trying to u apply common sense uh because if anybody come to these meetings like most of the the regulars
here you have proper content of the whole thing when this first started how the mayor was so gone hole with it and and look at where he's at now. And I wish you can just go back and play the video
before and after where we at now, but that's coming soon. Eric, thank you. That's coming soon. Uh just to give you a little heads up. But the thing is, when we're talking about growing the city, when we're talking about
bringing business to the city, and how long did the other economic uh developer last when this was something, if you can go back and roll the tape back that uh former commissioner Beckers, this was his baby. This is what he campaigned for and then
this is what he pushed. the mayor didn't want it and you can see that if you got any contents and you've been there, you can see that. So, he done done everything in his power to disrupt it, make sure it don't function properly because when you guys voted on it, you voted for the economic development to
have a staff to do things that she need to do, he or she needs to do, whatever that whoever's the person that we selected. Now we sit up here and we go through all this little dog and pony show and it's it's it's really sad to see for intelligent people.
It's really sad to see for intelligent people. And if we going moving forward putting our best foot for the community, for the city, for our small business, our small business,
what's the problem? Even if we spoke like we did before, just say, "Hey, reduce the fees and keep the program running." What's the problem? Why is it such an issue? And the last city council meeting before she
left, she said this is instrumental to her. And I'm thinking, what don't happen between there and now? Who whispered in her ear? So I say to the people, it's all about leadership. Who you have leading
the things that we sitting here arguing about, I apologize to all y'all because it's like your kids. You shouldn't be arguing about this because we adults. We know better. You shouldn't even have to come here and be entertained like this. It don't make any sense.
So if you could leave it in play, reduce the fees, let her do her job, what she was hired to do for the city of Apopka. Let her do her job and then maybe we can keep her around for three
or four years. Thank you. Anybody else? I have um pros and cons. The pros I think it will be good for small businesses to be able first to save some money. My concern now, seeing the way
the city's going, is that now you save us this money now, are you going to be taxing us higher in another area for you to raise that money? Um, I think it would be a
good idea because for example, I'm from Brooklyn. Brooklyn, all of Brooklyn, one county, Kings County. Apakka is not the same because if you move five minutes away, you can only need the county BTR.
If you're at one address, you need both county and city. I think it might be fair enough that the existing businesses like a new business for the first time has to pay for the BTR then y'all
collect that data have it in a database so it's readily available for whatever you need to but the existing business because right now the process is not working every year you go on since you guys made the change to apply for to
renew your BTR, you have to go through the same process as if you're brand new. That that's really it's a waste of administrative time from a business owner standpoint. So maybe just have the
new businesses pay and then maybe either reduce the renewal or get rid of it. But only get rid of it if the taxpayers is not going to have to come in now and fill in the gap for the money that's
being lost from it. Thank you. ultimate you guys decision, but um it's just interesting how this came up so quickly and is being sunset to the point it just feel like it's more political driven. Um because there again, we still
know in one instance, you say you guys need to raise the race on this this hand, then you're going to cut on this end. We ultimately know you're gonna go hide it somewhere else. So at least in this point, we kind of know what we're up against. I don't know last time you might have adjusted the fees, but at least you know what you're dealing with,
but I think it's just going to be somewhere hidden in some other cost or whatever the case may be. Um, then you go into the zoning aspect of it. You definitely don't know where the business is going and if they're operating illegally, what what are they actually doing? Who's tracking them? What's the
safety protocols with particular business that come in and out? So, it seems like you might put certain other business in risk. It could be a business of more office related and then you get someone I guess working on cars next door. Um but there again you just what
is the the sense of we talk about it in June or July we want to sunset it in two months and there again some things need to be vetted discussed brought dis workshop. It just seem like it comes up whoever somebody said well um a member
of community said this and we just going to jump on that. Okay, that might have been one person, but was it truly a majority? But I just think we're kind of just speedballing for whatever reason, but we need to sit down and discuss these things and get staff support and
put together something that we can actually read. It's just basically, hey, we just going to do this. We get some bullet points, um, pros and cons, but this stuff just just doesn't make any sense at the end of the day. If you just practically look, it doesn't make any sense. And if it did, well, in that
case, rebate us out of three years that we already paid if if you didn't need the money. So apparently, you're not using the resources as you should is kind of how I see it. But, you know, if she say she can do the job and she want to do administrative stuff, that is. But there again, I think it should give the
opportunity. See, if it wasn't being done right, doing it correctly, what results do you get? That's what you want to discover. What can you do better than you've been doing in the past? because we all know it hasn't been working. So that's just my two cents. Thanks.
Anybody else? If not, close the public hearing and look for a motion to approve ordinance number 3115 at first reading and hold over for a second reading and adopt. Let's have a little more discussion here because there was a lot of public comment there and I appreciate that. Mrs. Forbes, just some final dialogue here. So
again, you're still foundationally working to build this department up. You had said multiple times in the past and and said that you did a great job at in St. Cloud of building the BTR and how that was such a tool for you. Do you need this tool now?
Do I need the data? Absolutely. Can I do it without the way it's been done currently? I can still make it work without it. But I'll give you an example. So when I first started with St. cloud, I need to know exactly how many businesses do we have, the composition, and what I've talked about
before. So, as the years progressed, I can then determine how much the businesses have either increased or declined. That was a data point that I can use to say, look, we've grown x amount of businesses. I also extrapolated the homebased businesses as
well to say, look, during COVID, our homebased businesses are growing, so now we have to turn on our services to support them. And then as CO started to decline, our homebased business registrations declined at the same time. So I was able to infer from that data
people are returning back to work and therefore they're not um renewing their their BTR. So that's how I use that type of data. Now with that being said, I can still use the data that I have. My primary source would be from Orange County, for example, to still um
interpret that information. I also want to say that I was doing some other research and noticed that a lot of the cities are now moving towards eliminating the BTR and I got to be honest when I first saw that I was surprised myself when I came here July 2nd I was like really they're getting
rid of BTRs and so when I reached out to some of the other cities such as Claremont was one of them of okay now how does this function how do you work and so the consensus was basically it was more of a prefuncter um task and
that they were finding workarounds to get it done from economic development. I I'll tell you that a lot of my peers um focus more on the attraction piece. And so because they have their priorities on the attraction piece, they may not pay
attention to certain data that I would for my um existing businesses. And that's why it's so paramount to me. That being said, I can find other tools to get what I need done. I hope that answers your question. Yes is the answer. So, so yes, this is a
tool that you need. Yes, I do need the data. So, and and what I'm hearing too and from what you said there is that you were able to pivot quickly with the information you had to be able to adjust with the changing markets and changing economic climate, right? Not having that data so readily available to you is going to cause
delays. So this is something you need and until your department gets up and running, you really start running this telling me that you need it now as a as a foundational tool until you're ready to get it go. I think Claremont, these other municipalities that may be getting
rid of it have had an economic development department for more than a year, more than two years, well established, well running, right? So this is something you definitely need. It's what I'm hearing. So I think it's inappropriate to sunset it now. again. Maybe next year when when again
you're up and running, things are moving, you have the data you need, you know exactly where to get it, but you're not at that foundational level anymore, then let's have the conversation again. But I think right now is an inappropriate time to do it. Miss, I have a question as far as this something that you need the data. Yes.
Do would you do you recommend what is your recommendation? What is it that you would like to see happen? So I think there should be a level of comfort. So I'm listening not only to what this commission is saying but also what our constituents are saying. So, if our business owners are okay with continuing to pay a fee, you know, that
has to be under consideration. Um, I think there could be a somewhat compromise in the middle that perhaps the fee is slightly lower to offer a a certain financial um consideration to our business owners, but it still requires them to um to submit their
their applications and I can still get that data. So I think that might be a compromise if that's something that's something we discussed previously as well last um the previous meeting this came up is let's reduce the fees then but still get that data retain that data for you until you're ready to say I don't need it anymore
right and again I can only speak from economic development so I I can't speak on the administrative part of what that means as far as you know staffing and such but it's success for your department we need that we need it bad well the whole point of this either we get rid of it or we leave it where it is I mean I I to reduce the fees now we're
now we're spending spending the same amount of money getting less revenue. I mean, it makes absolutely no sense. I I don't I'd rather you vote it, you know, leave it like it is than to to reduce the fee and have the same amount of work on on our our side to collect less revenue.
I mean, that I think right now we probably should leave it how it is. That would give you time to kind of get acclimated with everything, you know, and just not throw it on you right now. So I do agree that I think we probably should just and and public comments pretty much pretty much said that they the same thing that they were uh in
favor of keeping it of of course for the same reason that three years ago it was brought to us as a it had to be done and uh I don't know if our former uh economic director each if she even
talked about it or said it was a tool for her but I do remember that you did say um that the BTRs was a tool for you. Yes. So, I I do want to thank you all for your support and making sure I have the information that I need. I'm also
very thankful that the community is in consideration of me um putting my best to put forward and making sure that this program is successful, however you decide. Okay. Okay. Oh, look for some direction.
So I'm not in favor of suns setting it at this at this. Got a motion to deny the ordinance number 3115 by Commissioner Velasquez. Second. Second by Commissioner Nesa. All those in favor. All oppose. I so 4 to1 um in not to
approve ordinance number 315. Okay. Okay. Next up ordinance 3124. Thank you. What is 3124? An ordinance of the city of Apopka amending the shops at East Shore PD Plan
Development Zoning District for a certain real property generally located on the northeast corner of Okoia Popka Road and Keen Road comprising 27.99 acres more or less and owned by shops at Eastshore LLC providing for directions to the community development director
severability complex and an effective date. Jean Sanchez with the community development department. This is a request to accept, excuse me, to accept the first reading of ordinance number 3124, the amendment to the shops at East
Shore Plan development. The subject property is found on the northeast corner of Aoya Road and West Road, approximately 28 acres in size. The current future land use designation is mixed use and has an existing PD
zoning designation. The original PD or plan development agreement for the shops at East Shore was approved on November 21, 2023 planned for mixeduse development including commercial and senior housing components. During the site development
and subsequent engineering, it was determined that the storm water needs of the project could be ma could be met without use of lot six previously reserved for storm water pond on the master plan which is conceptual in nature. The developer now proposes to
amend the PD to allow commercial development on that lot. Therefore, the applicant is requesting to convert lot six from a storm water track to a commercial out parcel of thou with 5,000 square ft of new commercial entitlements, add tire sales and service as an allowed
use within the PD boundaries. As well, the DRC has no objection to the proposed change and recommends approval of the PD amendment. At its meeting on August 12, 2025, the planning commission unanimously recommended approval of the shots at Eastore PD amendment.
Therefore, the recommended motion is to accept the first reading of ordinance number 3124 and hold it over for second reading and adoption. Stop staff and applicant are available for questions. Okay. Any questions for Jean? It's actually for attorney Sheepard.
This is quasi judicial. Uh yes. Yes, it is. So can you update us or re-educate us on what that means? Sure. What it means is if you first if you have any disclosures about exarty communications, that would mean that you
spoke to someone outside of these chambers, doesn't matter who, about this issue, you need to disclose who you spoke with and the topics of your conversation. The reason being then either the applicant or members of the public can inquire as to what you learned so they know whether they agree
or disagree with what you learned and they can address it if they think they need to from the podium. uh the after the disclosures are done by everybody uh then you hear the evidence and determine and the only thing you're determining is whether or not the applicant meets the
criteria for the proposal here the uh amended PD or resoning and there are code criteria that's why you have a staff report the way this works is if your staff recommends approval that is competent substantial evidence that
supports going forward you can trust this I mean, you don't have to, but the truffs that that the the staff's position is seen by the courts as competent and substantial. If there are alternative evidence on this on an important point or uh an element has to
be met by either a member of the the public who happens to have a degree in something that's relevant to this like engineering, appraising, uh surveying, whatever it might be. Uh you can choose to believe that person over the staff and decide to deny the resoning. But you
can't deny it because you don't like it. It has to be based on competent substantial evidence. Okay. Thank you. So, any questions for Steve? So, I just do want to disclose I did speak with uh the applicant. It was a while back, not specific to this exact
matter, but about the development overall. Um, and I guess so the and I'd asked this during my agenda review, we're having water issues throughout the city, drainage, flooding, things of that nature. We're taking away a pond from
this project and slightly increasing another one. Correct. I will defer that to the engineers in the room. Uh, good evening, mayor and council members. My my name is Jonathan Hules with the Louns Law Firm, 215 North Ula
Drive, Orlando 32801. Uh, I'm serving as an applicant for this project and u also in attendance is our our project engineer Jordan Draper with Kimley Horn and Kathleen Smith WMG who's the master developer. So,
uh, you you're right. the the request before you right now is to change the original designation of this out parcel for storm water to an additional uh retail out parcel. And the basis for that request is that the plan you're
seeing now metaphorically speaking is like a rough sketch. It was it was prepared at the beginning of the development review and approval process. This is the the the plan that was put together to support the original PD uh re reasoning from PD. It was originally
mixed used gateway and uh at that time there wasn't uh final engineered plans that happens later in the development approval process. After you all had approved the PD, it went through those additional review processes at the city
and with the water management district that includes review and approval of environmental resource permit. As part of those processes that now are occurred, that storm water pond that's that's shown in the top right corner uh is a is
is a dry pond. This project's in a closed basin. Therefore, it needs to meet the more rigorous criteria that the city and the water management district has for closed basins, which is needs to accommodate a 100red-year storm instead of the typical anywhere outside of
closed basins, a 25 year, 24-hour storm event. So, it's a it's a it's a a more rigorous design. It can hold uh additional retention that that because it's in a closed system. when those anal when it was complete and the analysis
run by our engineer um it was proven that that storm that out parser pond was no longer needed to to to to hold all the storm water that would be generated from the overall project. So as we went
through the process that rough sketch got additional detail construction site plan instead of being one page is tens of pages it's 30 you know could be upwards of 20 30 pages that's where the the actual the engineering calculations are made. They're reviewed by staff both
at the city and the uh water management to prove that that pond is designed can accommodate all that storm water and that's we've been through that process. Permits have been issued. It's under construction today. Thank you for that. So, in I don't know if we have what staff had sent of there
was kind of arrows. It was sent in a separate email, I think, but kind of arrows showing the change in the flow basically of how you're changing topography of this. So, a lot of the project now is heading west. Well, I'll say the pub Publix area is kind of Well,
actually, no, Publix is heading northeast now to the larger storm water dry pond. Yep. And then the rest of it's heading west to I can't think of the lake right now to the west. Medicine Lake. Yeah, Medicine Lake. Why don't you come up and confirm that?
We'll have Jordan come up and Yeah. Jordan Draper with Kimley Horn, project engineer. So the the out parcels that you see on the the left side of the page, uh parcel two, parcel three, parcel four, whenever those are developed, right now they're masqueraded, but when they are
developed, they'll have a standalone treatment and attenuation system. So they'll have a pond system on that lot. They are not draining to the master pond. Whenever those those are developed, they will have to meet the same closed basin criteria and be reviewed by the city and the water
management district. Okay. So understood. And then so that storm water pond to the northeast parcel five, will that in any capacity drain north into over one parcel? And I guess there's a larger pond there as well on
the north side. Correct, I'm forgetting the name. Um, but yet there is a discharge to the north as the site in the existing condition did discharge to the north. Okay. But we have to evaluate the hundred-year condition. So, uh, the project you're
looking at the the preflow that was sent to that pond to the north, the lake, uh, we have to match that. So, we're holding back a lot of runoff that you normally wouldn't have to in a standard condition, uh, to prevent the possibility of that 100-year
event flooding that lake. So, you can't change what's already naturally kind of in, well, maybe not natural, but it's in place right now. Correct. Right. Okay. Because there there's some concerns. It's Lake Rutherford is to the north. Uh that's privately owned by an HOA and they they have some concerns of
water uh runoff water I guess going into it. But if St. John's is reviewing that and they're basically saying as long as it's not more than X, then that's appropriate. Correct. We're meeting all current state and city criteria.
Okay. Y Okay. Understood. Thank you. Any other questions for the applicant? Well, let me ask since since you're removing the pond in parcel six and now you're going to develop on that, where is that water going?
So that that drains to the the northeast corner, the master pond. So parcel six drains through parcel one, the multif family piece to the back pond. To the back pond. Correct. So can I show you something? because I
did get I I guess Commissioner Nester they responded public works uh our director did respond to Commissioner Nick Nester and they sent sort of a a diagram of where the water was
flowing. Can you just kind of look at this and tell me so you're saying this pond here now? Are we able to pull that up at all and put it? Yeah, cuz that was sent from uh our CA. See where they
Well, this is the existing conditions prior to the change. Mr. Williams or Mr. Sant are we able to put this up at all? redirecting the water. Okay. I think it's going to help tell the
story a little bit. Okay. Yes. Let's talk to first. Is it the same one, Valin, that you sent us? Okay. Mayor, I'd have to go grab it from the office. have to go to his
I'd have to go grab it from the office. Well, can I can I forward this email to somebody in the room that can pull it up on this computer? If we can do it just again so that people in the room and also people watching online can just see the change in topography and where these arrows are
going. Yes. Mr. Hipper, do you want me to forward it to you? Okay. This is the first time we're seeing this graphic. We just reviewed it with with with Vlad and it and confirmed that the
the two illustrations with the arrows are accurate, but we can hopefully put those. So, it's consistent with what you understand then or what what you're it it it's consistent with the approved plans for the project. I wasn't aware that you guys hadn't seen
that yet. So, we're on the same page, but it is correct. Okay. Well, yeah. I I I'll give this a try. The the original conceptual drainage plan had
the storm water from parcel one and this out parcel flowing the same under the road and going to Medicine Lake. when it went through the subsequent development review processes where the final design is actually prepared by Jordan as the
project engineer submitted to the city and actually based on a lot more data that's collected from the site including topography. Those two parcels are now draining the opposite direction into this stormwater
pond that's currently under construction. That storm water pond has been designed and permitted and being constructed to accept storm water from both parcel one and the proposed partial
six in addition to the M uh retail retail anchor building inline retail and the medical office that is also under construction today. So that storm water pond's going to sit
lower than Wow. Quite quite a quite a bit. There's 50 feet of fall from Keen Road to the north. Gotcha. Okay. So I think that's what the the two illustrations you're referring to in the
in the packet that the city engineer has put together for you all. So we we can confirm that is accurate. Okay. I just want to show it for for everybody in the room and then also uh those watching online that they can see uh what we're talking about.
Let me try to get this out away real quick. Quick. Are there are there anybody from the the neighborhood that Okay. If you'll Okay. We did Did you give us your email address? statement. I want to comment on this.
No, but I'm saying did you give us your email address? I was gonna say because we got we had your did you earlier when you when you gave under public comment. Did you have your email address then? Okay. Because uh Susan, if you'll pull that one out and just be sure to send
him the the uh the email. So I'll have our engineer talking about this project. I'll have them forward that that email to you. Perfect. There it is. Will that work? That's it. That's perfect. Thank you so much. Yeah. So, this this was the originally
the original design at at the conceptual rough sketch stage that served as the basis for the original PD plan that we're now into amends. Um, can I just hit the arrow? Are you able to control it?
Is there How do I get to the sec the next page on the Okay. And I think just to illustrate the two we were working off of is here is the actually engineered design project and that you could see that
those arrows both on on um parcel one and proposed parcel six are now directed and they're in red back to and this is the updated one. This is the newest this is the engineered plans. Okay. reviewed approved by both the city water
management district currently under construction. Okay. So those bottom left three will feed into eventually into the lake to the west and the rest will eventually uh lead into the lake to the north
uh to the correct to the northeast. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank you. To the storm to the storm water pond to the northeast not this the but it slowly percolates to that lake. Correct. Yes. But but it's designed so it's it it not more than what it is.
Not more than pre-development flow into that. Okay. Understand. I appreciate you the patience and taking the time for this is helpful for the residents to understand as well as everybody in the room. So um thank you for that. Any other questions for the applicant?
Anybody from the public wish to speak? Can I have my paper back? [Laughter] Thank you. Thank you. My name is Ian Kimberell. Uh Park Meadow
Drive, Magno Park Estates. I live just the other side of the bridge where this is all being constructed. And I've had some concerns since day one of this project happening. Um across the street here, there's an apartment complex. There's a path trail and then a lake
there. Um, and then you have King Road that goes up. That is a two-lane road that a lot of heavy traffic goes down that can never get out of that intersection, especially due to the fact that there's tractor trailers that are trying to make those turns, which is a
highly dangerous intersection. Secondly, you can't really prevent or make more room here because that's a two-lane road on Koa Paka Road, which you have a very small turn lane going into El Hardin, the apartment complex across the street. My concern is is one great big beautiful
plaza. I'm really looking forward to having a Publix right across the street from me. However, the traffic is insane. Well, it used to take me 3 minutes to get from say Boy Scout Road to my house is now taking me over 15 minutes, 20 minutes because
one, there's one traffic light at the Yokoy Pop Road 429 bridge which you guys I don't know you who've approved the design on that. You put a bicycle trail that lines up in the middle of the road that people have to turn into. There's a
turning train with traffic trail tractor trailers who again have wide swing areases who have tail swing who now you have a vehicle trying to travel north on Oko Paka Road that has to shift from the lane they're in on in the right to almost the middle of the road to go
straight. Meanwhile, you have a pedestrian bicycle path that's going to connect to the park which is phenomenal. again going right through my neighborhood. But again, severely safety issue. I want it on the record because somebody's going to die at that intersection. Not once, not twice. Now,
the flooding that happens, and this is what I'm talking about with the water when it rains, Oko Paka Road floods like crazy. All the dirt comes across the road, it's a complete nightmare and a mess. So, I don't know who's approving all this. I'm not a developer. I'm not a
perimeter, but this is an absolute nightmare what you guys are putting there. It's a great big plaza with two two-lane roads. I hope you guys have plans to make those roads wider because I've also learned that you can't widen a road until you do a census and the
problem's already existing. So, what's happening with planning for the problem before the problem arises? There needs to be some definitely looking at because that is a safety hazard with the flooding in the road, the dirt and all the stuff coming into the road, the rocks that are coming into the road, the
tractor trailers, no red light, no pathway for travel, and yet you have this magnificent big gigantic beautiful plaza you're building there. And then you're going to put on parcel one a bunch of multif family units, which I'm probably going to say that's probably apartments if I had to take a guess. Um,
and then you're going to take parcel was it six? that you guys are moving the water from and you guys want to develop that also. It's ridiculous. Albert Mckame 3603 Golden Gem Road. I'm confused not by what the applicant has
presented but what the city constitutes as competent and substantive evidence. You know, I go back two years, maybe two and a half years, when Jim Hit was here, and I came up and asked the mayor, I
have a simple question for you, mayor. And I said, you may or may not be able to answer it. But in essence, I knew what the mayor was going to say anyway. He was going to say to me, come back in two weeks. The problem was we continue to make decisions without compet
competent and substantive evidence. Why did I say that? Well, when we go back to Mr. Hit in those days, I believe he said the city paid $86,000 for a census of what the development was currently at that time in Apopka. It was
to establish how much new projects there was, how many were already underway. There was a lot of information. And you know what? Last week, I came into city hall and I asked for a copy of your current documentation so that I could
provide myself with competent and sub substantive evidence. And guess what? I can't. So, I've got to ask you, how can you? If you don't know when this report was generated and you don't know what's
on the report, why are you here today making decisions on our future when you're ignorant of plain facts? And that's a fact. This report was generated over a year ago, probably 14
months ago, and there's no update for it on this. What your competent and substantive evidence today is is based on something that's over a year old. You've no idea how many houses are being built. You've got no idea how much runoff's going on. Admittedly, it's been
looked at by the engineers on individual projects, but you as commissioners aren't being given up to-date data. Why don't we have up-to-date data? It's not it's not a difficult thing to take in
all the data and if I compile it into a spreadsheet that's up to date. This spreadsheet says we currently it will just go at dwelling houses. We're at 8,900, but we know it's far more than that.
It's probably 15, 16, 17,000 now. I don't know. Bannon doesn't know. And you don't know. Competent and substantive evidence. Where is it? Why are we voting tonight if you don't have it?
I have lived in that community down there since 1972. Right off King Road right the back side of Lake Jewel. We had vibrous lakes down there. We had the pastor. We had Lake Jewel. Then the
dumps came in. Everything got choked out. All the water start going west down this road of King Road. Again, I asked where is the ESA and the ES the EIS report
showing possible contamination. Showing exactly what they're saying. Show what they did the soil samples. Showing where this water is going to run. not guessing just because the engineer said it goes
this way. Where are the reports and especially when you put these single family homes in there? Where are the water going? If you go down to the end of King Road and to a popco over to the left, they built some apartments. All that was
Orange Grove. It was a lake over there at one time. They closed that lake off. All it take is just a small amount of rain to lake across a pop gold core road is going to flood. We going to have down there on that end.
We're going to have the same thing that you have out here at this uh over on uh what that is pee. The same thing you're having on clear lake. And this thing here say uh we got uh this is the first reading.
I don't know why you approving anything when you don't have all the data. Why are you coming to approve when you're already building? You're putting the c ahead of the horse.
Why don't you have all the data in the front of you? So when the developer come in, I just let you know unfair enrichment. Get ready, Apaka, because we're coming. You can build what you want on your
property, but when it impedes on somebody else property, not just one of you guys, not the engineer, you're the guys that approving it. And each and every one of you can be sued. Just remember that.
Rod Olsson, 3156 Rolling Hills Lane. Uh, this project's going to generate another 80 students. I'm not sure what schools are going to go to. And so, you know, I don't just pull these numbers out of a hat. Uh, this is based off the Orange County student generation rate. That's a public record. I've just emailed Lauren
Roth to confirm the record I have. The last I had I talked to her in the last six months was still from 2020. I will verify that. I'll send it to you again. You sit up here and approve one development after another. We're not looking at the aspect of the roofs. We're not looking at the aspect of all
the concrete. We're creating flooding as a gentleman I think two meetings ago had cited uh with it. The same thing is true with students and you know I've talked to it before in 20 years there's only once Orange County Public Schools has said no to a development that was Hammer
Estates and you overruled it still put them in there. We our student overcrowding is a problem. Five of our 15 schools in this city are over capacity. Those trailers are not as safe. They're more expensive to operate.
And heaven forbid something would happen on one of those campuses. Thank you. My question is is it possible is this Okay. Um my question more in in regards to the traffic issue because when I look at the site um it's very resemblance to
um the public's located on Welch and u Roxman Road and I know previously well a couple years back we had to do like a pork chop here to make it right in right only and then up here at this other angle I mean other entrance you can kind
of go both ways. I just wanted to know if there was any consideration on how that's going to impact the traffic on the road as well as I know it was recently a $17 million I guess granter some money you guys received. How does that align with that particular plan in
coordination with this? Um because I know they put the the blinders up I guess so you can't cross into that area and I just didn't know if they was going to take take account for that in the future. Anybody else? John, you want to come up? Oh, we
got one more. Sylvester Hall, I only got a few uh only a couple things. Uh I won't repeat what everybody have came up here and said. uh they all make valid points that are paramount to this situation. But if you can go roll the camera back some couple
years ago maybe. So I as the simple question, do we have a consultant when it comes to all these building projects? Do we have a consultant that go out and do the leg work for you guys since you don't have the time or don't have to know how to do it? because everything
that the citizens are bringing up here now, that's something should have already been discussed. It's already should be thought of before we get to where we at now. So, it's it's it's is it's it's really like I say, hair pulling that we can come up
here and we can vote on something that we don't know the the big picture. We don't know the whole contents of the situation. And then we say we doing our we doing our best for the citizen. We're doing our best for the city. Make it make sense to me.
Everything that that somebody come up here and say is valid to this situation. And to the developers, I want you to know that we love you coming here. Don't don't think that it's wrong. We don't we don't want you to come. We want you to come because we want you to beautify the city. But if
somebody just take the common sense thought process to see how everything's going to work out, including everything that was just said here, it's a very simple solution. When we all work together for one common cause, that's the city of Apakka.
Everything just flows so smoothly. You get the minds together that know it shouldn't be no guessing. When you get to this point where you got to vote, it shouldn't be no guessing. It shouldn't have been known. Well, I think this is the right. All that should be fact.
It should be fact moving forward. And that's how we complicate things when it's very it's a very simple process. Thank you. Anybody else? Okay, Jonathan. Just want to address a couple of points that were made. Just maybe make some
clarifications. A lot of information to share during public comment. Um start with schools. This project was approved several years ago. It's a mixeduse project. It does have a residential component. However, that residential component is senior age restricted
housing that was approved. So, that will be required to have a restrictive covenant that will not allow uh students to reside there. It's going to be a 55 and plus community. So, there will not be an impact from this project from schools. And part of the conversation
that was had when this project was originally approved was that that senior age restricted housing component helps fill a void that is in the city for that type of housing. Uh in terms of roads, uh you might recall that this is a PD and a PD is negotiated zoning and there
was a lot of negotiation that occurred with this project. Part of that negotiation was the road improvements that were going to be made by the developer in conjunction with its development. Those road improvements include a complete um um modernization
of the roads adjacent to this project including on Keen and on a Papco Koi A and the signalization of that intersection. This developer will be building that signal. That signal will
be up and and operating uh before the the public's retail anchor is opened. That was an important discussion item when this pro project was originally brought before you. And so what was being what was at at prior to
development was a rural two-lane road segment that was probably sub I substandard in design both at the intersection as well as being replaced by modern suburban road net u um um
roads that will have act uh turn lanes both in the left turn movement and the right turn movements and uh a fully new intersection that's going to be signalized. So, um, and just to recap, you know, the approval today is the
zoning change. Before this parcel six were to go through actual development, it would have to go through the review processes both at the city, including a development plan that would come back before you all followed by engineered
construction site plans that would have to be reviewed and approved by city staff and a modification to that St. John's water management district permit to ensure that what's being built out there um has adequate drainage and
capacity in in that storm water pond. So there are checks and balances beyond just tonight's uh decision before you. So with that, happy to answer any questions you you might have. Any final questions for Jonathan? No, I I I just want to say thank you for
sharing the information because in reference to the traffic light because I was going to mention that as well that that is in planned. There's some road road improvements that's going to take place that this developer is providing to the city of Apopka to help alleviate
some of that traffic. Thank you. And so I what question too just to clarify as well the timing of the road improvements that you're doing as well as the signal. They're not going to be waiting for our side of Claricono Koi uh excuse me, Papco Koi, Koi Popka
Road to be improved. You're not waiting for us at all in any capacity? No, those those both of those rights of way are are county rights of way and that those are being permitted through the county and being constructed by the developer. The developer is under an
obligation with the city to have that signal in place prior to uh the public's opening. Okay. and and the roadway improvements as well. Correct. Okay, understood. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Looking for a motion to
approve ordinance number 3124 at first reading and hold over for a second reading and adoption. So move. Got a motion by Commissioner Smith. Second. Second by Commissioner Velasquez. All those in favor? All oppose? Motion carries unanimously. Commissioner Velasquez, why don't you get us started on
council reports? Okay. Yep. Well, the I did attend one of the strategic planning uh sessions. I I attended the first one. The only disappointment was that we didn't have uh much of a public input here in the
chamber and then um we only had like 75 uh responses um online. And then I learned that a lot of the data that they were presenting was from 2020. And so that was a little disappointing because
they're not really using the most updated data. And I don't I don't know if the strategic planning uh workshop is uh resulting in anything that would um kind of set us
uh for the future because we don't really have the input of a large uh constit uh of our constituents. I mean, I hate to have a strategic plan put together with just 75 responses and
maybe I don't know how many showed up for the second and third session, but the first one didn't even have 10. Um, three and six. Yeah, I say it was around the same same thing. Yeah, same number. Yeah. So that's um I I don't know how to
make uh to have a greater effort from our public because um a strategic planning is setting us up for a future and um I don't know if 75 people or less
than 150 people are going to make it. Rob, can you get some data on any like clicks on to maybe people that didn't fill it out or didn't um complete the the online survey? Can you get us any
Okay. Just we can just at least get you some some some raw data from from their team. I listen I I I know that it goes out with the water bill. I know it does. I I I checked my Apopka news
17,000 17,000 newsletters. I mean I I only lead a horse to water. Yes. I don't know how successful that strategic planning is coming along. That's the only thing I have to say. Um I went away for the weekend. So um
that's all I have. It was that my concern was the strategic planning and um I don't know if it's successful at this point. And when does it end? Um it ends September 13th. So by September
13th, uh we'll have a a number. Yeah. Okay. Commissioner, and when are they coming to kind of give us an whole overview? I don't know if we have the team.
It'll still be a month or two after the data components finished. We'll do some um internal planning sessions with them with city staff and then they'll put the package together and come present to council. So, probably closer to the end of the year.
I'm just a little concerned that we're just going to have less than 15 less than 200 um an input from 200 people for a city of almost 60,000. Okay. Nothing. Okay. Commissioner Nester.
Yes. So, just a consistent reminder of uh my office hours every Thursday uh here at city hall from 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. I uh take 30 minute um sessions. So, if you want to make an appointment, feel free. Otherwise, um,
walk-ins are fine as well. And if you are uncomfortable for any reason coming to city hall and meeting me on site here, I'm happy to meet you anywhere else, wherever you are comfortable. Um, I've done it in the past and happy to continue to do that to meet residents where they're at. And office hours have been going really great, really good
ideas coming from that. So, always a proponent of that and, um, happy to always continue to meet with residents, especially as we are working through budget and, uh, utility rate increases. I've been getting a lot of uh concerns and conversations about that. So, please
come speak to me, give me some feedback, and uh let's get this city writed. Thank you, Commissioner Smith. Um I did also attend the uh first strategic planning session as well. Uh as Commissioner Velasquez said, uh there
was a low attendance and uh I know at that meeting we discovered that the link that participants could go to to uh do the survey did not work and so they were supposed to go back and and fix that uh so that it would work. Uh attended the
Florida League of Cities conference uh in Orlando as well. uh very informative session, a lot of great uh workshops and breakout sessions as well. And uh as my last comment, I would uh like to uh
uh make the motion in reference to the u minutes policy. Um, I agree with Commissioner Velasquez in reference to just the names, but likewise, I don't want us to have our city clerk
to put bullets next to the names and then we come back and then we criticize her and attack her because she didn't put what we felt like should be there. If we're going to give her the leeway to summarize those comments, then we ought
to be also willing to accept the summary that she gives us and not attack her because it doesn't say what we wanted to say. Um, so with that in mind, I would like to uh make a motion that the uh policy for the minutes be uh
reconsidered and allow the city clerk to go back and make that addition in reference to the comments only. That's what I was asking. So I'm going to second your motion on that. Then she'll bring it back to us to review. Yes.
Okay. And I thank you, Commissioner Smith, for reconsidering. Okay. So, you got a motion in a second. Yeah, I know that. Um I'm just trying to think how we
um So, you're looking for So, explain a little bit more, Commissioner Smith. I I'm just trying to wrap my head around what you're asking as uh Commissioner Velasquez said. Okay. uh demonstrated ju just a a brief
not even more than a sentence as to the comment that that particular public uh comment made. Um and and and and and that's it. And you know and then like I said then we got to agree that we're not going to attack her
if what she has summarized does not capture what we felt like it should have. uh otherwise we're going to keep going back and forth through the same procedure we've been going through before. And so I would just say in in in less a sentence or less that for each public
comment okay I've got a motion in second here. Here's my only caveat. I I I'm perfectly fine with where we are right now. But I I will give you that that courtesy with the only here's my my only ask is if we if if the first time
it comes back and somebody says that's not what I said then it goes back to where we are. Can I you okay with that? Can I say this though? I'm looking at the form there is a item subject on here. So it's the name and I guess the item subject. So that way they can it could be exactly what they not
they put what they wanted to talk about. So maybe put it on that form the item be on the form because it talks about what they you know what they want to discuss less than 10. You want to see it? Well just don't say you know that could be a point. I'm just I don't I'm trying
to figure out a way where it won't be a I just feel having the minutes which is now a document that's going to be filed for future and people are just going to see a list of names and they say what was discussed what were the comments
and so um I know they keep saying you agreed to it agreed to the policy but didn't realize and I when it said comments ments. I thought it meant comments that were derogatory, but a
basic comment referencing an important subject or a concern should be documented. So about 10 10 words that 10 doesn't matter whether it's 10 words, but that the subject matter is understood.
Okay, I'm okay with that. 10 words or less and I'm not going to go with 10 words. Well, then what's the matter that is pertinent? That's it. I'm not going to vote for that. What you gave us, Commissioner was less than 10 words.
Yes. All right. Some one of them was only three. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Water. I guess it's something she can follow. Something she can follow. But the point is to bring it back to the council. Whole point is to bring it back to the council. Yes. Okay. So we got so here so let me
let me try to reconstitute the motion. The motion is to add so public comment on your form 10 words or less and if if we get we get back crossways again with the commissioner then we go back to the way we are today. Everybody okay with that?
What do you mean by that cross words with the commissioner? If if if we're if you're going to then say that whatever Susan's done is not what was said, then then no, I'm not going to go back to the we either make an amendment where we're going to allow at least a brief summary,
whether it's 10 words to be at least uh posted on the minutes for the public comment. I'll go with that because at least I'm getting something back, but I'm not going to go back. We're not going to That's my whole point. I've not I've never attacked
and nobody was attacking. It was correcting the matter so that they were properly reflected and I we all showed that there was discrepancies. So we can say there was attacks but there was inconsistencies that we needed to fix. Yeah. So So 10 words or less on the on the form.
Okay. We got a motion by Commissioner Smith. We have to be creative. 10 words. But okay. It's better than nothing. So but I'm not going back. I'm I don't want to say to go back. We'll do that and we'll work from there.
So, got a motion and a second. All those in favor? I oppose. Motion carries. You are we going to do public comment on that? No, we're we're good. Okay. Wow. Okay. Um and I thank you, Commissioner Smith. You're welcome. Okay, Cliff.
You don't want to hear what I got to say, but you you can't make a decision on something without opening it for public comment. You have to do that. Wow. Okay. Who wants to stop? Come on. Wow. You know what this is about? This is about silencing the people. You don't
want the people voices to be heard in entirely. There's legal procedures procedures that goes on here that we have to record. exactly what was said. You have no problem in doing that. So why is it a problem when it comes to public comment? You got a problem doing it.
It's simple. You don't want the people to hear what the public is saying. Because mayor, when the public come up here, public comments, and these individuals bring excellent thing to help move this city forward, you look at them in disgrace.
Just like you looking at this sitting in front of you. You look at him in disgrace. There are certain people that come up here you have dialogue with and if they bring something to your attention, yes, you sit there and you have dialogue with
them. But the ones that you don't care for, they can tell you, "Ma, you got $100,000 waiting in the bank for you. You won't even listen to it." So when I say it's time to for us to do away with hate, do away with corruption,
and do away with racism, that's what I mean. These things are not going away. And we can sit here and pretend that it's not happening, but it's going to meet you at your front door one day. And I pray for each and every one of our souls because what's
going here now, just think about it. We are in the 21st century and I can go get a AI app and it can record everything that I'm saying here. There was a there was uh two or three meetings ago, well two or three years
ago, I told the mayor, I said, "Mayor, the God I serve tell me that I have to love you, so I love you." I said, "But you got a wicked heart." It was recorded as the mayor said, the Sylvester said he he uh he loves the mayor, but he don't
agree with everything the mayor do. So when you change things and put in a different whole concept, a different whole content, come on. We're sitting here and we debating on this bull crap that we all know what's going on. It's just a
suppressive divorce. So people can't hear what we're saying because one, it embarrass you. But this is a direct reflection of your city and if you get off your ass and do something about it, then it wouldn't be a problem.
Thank you, Leroy Bell. Uh, first of all, my comment, I called the city clerk and I told her my comment wasn't what was written in the minutes.
And the reason I said it, and I wasn't I was nice, cordial, and we had a great uh conversation. But what the problem was was that your buddy had came up in here with his hands out.
Commissioner Diane was asking questions and stuff. You didn't like what I said, so you had it put in that Leroy Bell didn't say anything about this cutorial.
And that's exactly what I spoke about. It's all about censorship. If anybody say anything good about you, you want that to be written out for verbatim. Myself, I agree. Miss Bone have enough on her plate
already. If it's just a snippet of what was said, a record, minutes are kept behind this wall out here, you got a you got a a cornerstone
and behind that cornerstone, one day it going to be moved and it going to have the events of the day. Who laid it? Who was in attendance? is going to have a newspaper back there of that date. And this is what this is. Public comment is
the cornerstone of these commission meeting. When it come down to public comment tonight, you look in there, Leroy Bell, Rod Olsen, and whoever spoke. That was just saying that we was in
attendance. Why would you have to duplicate that that we was in attendance when you have it at a sign in sheet at the door? It's all about this is the way that you
career politicians try to stay in office and in power and and the sad part about it, we got one coming from the county, a commission, a career commissioner trying to be mayor, going to do the same thing. That's Christine Moore.
Rod Olen Olsson, 3156 Rolling Hills Lane. I hate to say this, but 58 years ago and leaves, leave it to me. Abnormal sight class. One of the things I learned there is how everyone sees s something different. Everyone has their own
backpack. And in my backpack is all my life experience. That's why all of us could be looking at the same event. We all see something different. Every one of us see something different. And there's nothing wrong. It doesn't mean I'm wrong. Doesn't mean Roger's wrong. Doesn't mean any of you are wrong. It
just means we see things differently. I think the cleanest way and I saw Abby pointing out to this one. There's a single line underneath subject that we're going to be talking about for me today. I talked about a lot of things in three business. Take out Susan, take out
the mayor, take out anything else. Put down what the people put down in that slot. As long as it's not illegal, immoral, unethical, do it for me today. infrastructure development and Northwest Recreational Complex. All
all-inclusive playground. That was my subject. Put those three after it and it's done. It's one line and it takes away what people think Susan interpreted, what anyone else interpreted. It's what I put on that sheet. Thank you. I I agree with what was just said, but
another alternative, if possible, just scanning the green form. That is what I believe Orange County actually does because I've gone back and looked at my prior uh comments at Orange County. So, if you could just
scan in the green form if that's feasible and then provide them to the mayor and commissioners Albert McKay 360 Golden Chevro just as I'm at somebody said just now that people sign in. I watch people walk in here tonight who don't sign in. So that
sign in document isn't an accur an accurate record of who's in here anyway. But can we argue with Google? Can we argue with all the AI programs that are currently out there? No. These are industry standards. And what do these
industry standards depend on? They depend on keywords. If we have keywords next to a person's name, we can come back in four years and we could use an EI program
to interrogate a database and have some idea of what that person who used to come here stood for, what their suggestions were. We can do research. Without keywords next to a person's name, you might as well bury somebody in
a grave without a headstone. Well, I just got a couple things. I think first of all, we probably should need to establish Robert Ru's order so we know exactly what to expect. Um, but in regards to public comment, I think there's several approaches to it. You can have your summary, but there can be
an unofficial written document or verbatim exactly what was said. So, I don't think it's one or the other. It can be multiple ways because there again we can you know talk see here but there's people that could be blind deaf do we ever think about those people. So
it's always one-sided. So we still need to take a post to we're giving the information to the people that want us hear it in any manner that's necessary. So whether you like it or not if it's in a public forum what was said whether you like it or not just just put it out
there. But I I don't think we should have to have a long debate about this. Thank you. Okay. Anybody else? Okay. So, we had a motion by Commissioner Smith. Who was a second? Commissioner Anderson. Okay. Okay. Commissioner Las. All right. Got a
motion by Commissioner Smith. Second by Commissioner Vasquez. All those in favor? I. All oppose. Four to one with Commissioner Neesa against. Okay. Uh Bradley, mayor, I just have one thing on the uh
list tonight and that is to confirm the next Clearwater Lake workshop which we had tenatively set from Monday, September 15th at 6 p.m. So just want to confirm that everybody's available for that and we can get that officially scheduled
Monday, September 15th at 6 p.m. Everybody good with that? Oh, well, I just I just want to on that that topic, R just let you know that I've reached out now I think Stacy's for the third time to ask um the HOA president
from Clear Lake to send us their HOA policy so I can get a quote that would include a pump station. And yet he's not responded. So, just just for the record for all the commissioners here, I've asked for a record because I I want to get a quote which would include the pump
station and all their other amenities in a policy to show them that it can be done and how much the additional cost would be. I can't do it in a vacuum. I have to have a policy to base it off of. So, he's not giving me that information. Um, so we can't, you know, if you if
you're really serious about, you know, looking at if if if he's worried about it failing by lightning or hurricane or whatever and he won't give us the opportunity to get at least get him a quote, then that that doesn't show. I think it's unfair that he's not here to be able to rebut that. So, you're
you're talking about his character and he's not even here. I'm telling you, I'm sending three emails and he hasn't responded any. And how long did you not respond to him over months? Give him more than a week, maybe. Okay. All right. Okay. So, what time is that meeting? Uh, Monday, September 15th at 6 PM.
Okay. You you good, Commissioner Vasquez? Yes. Okay. Okay. We'll confirm that. Yep. All right. Thank you, Riley. Is that it? Yep. Okay. All right. Just a couple quick things. Uh, everybody had a great u the grand opening for Fire Station 6 was a
really a wonderful event. Thank you, Chief Sanchez and your team. That was a amazing uh opportunity. Yeah, we were we were excited. Um, second, just I know that there's a little smell around city hall. We we're about threequarters of the way into painting and ripping off
wallpaper that's been there since the probably the 80s. I mean, it's So, uh, the Lampere is our is our contractor, our painting contract doing a really nice job going, you know, room to room to room. Uh, carpet, I guess, is somewhere in the in the mix.
Yeah, we're working on that. Okay. Working on that. Um the Hispanic Heritage Festival, everybody put that on your calendar. September 20th. Um it will be at Kitland Nelson Park from 4 to 8. I think we've got I want to say we've got 16 vendors already signed up. Uh
reached out to Tony Tony Ortiz who's the commissioner from City of Orlando. He's going to be our master of ceremony. So, we're really excited about that. And last but not least, um we've got a team from our parks and wreck going over to the FNGA um trade show in Orlando on
Friday. Um we got the team there that's going to donate a bunch of trees for us. And so we're excited to see what they have as we look forward to um looking at a century garden there to to be a part of the all-inclusive playground. So,
FNJL, a big shout out to the the all the members there that'll be donating trees and shrubs and annuals and herbs for us for for our our parks. So with that,