good afternoon and welcome everyone to the April 8th city of Apakka Planning and Zoning Commission meeting if you would all please join me to stand for a moment of silent prayer and the pledge amen i pledge allegiance to the flag of
the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all during each agenda item of tonight's meeting there will be a time for members
of the public to speak upon that agenda item if there is anyone here with something to speak to the board about that is planning and zoning related now would be the time to be recognized seeing none we'll move to the approval
of meeting minutes March 11th 2025 does anyone have any changes or additions all right we'll hear a motion mr chairman I make a motion to approve the minutes for March 11th 2025 thank you sir a motion by Commissioner
Washington do I have a second i'll second it second by Commissioner Ryan all in favor say I i any opposed motion carries right public hearing number
one ordinance 3102 change of zoning master plan and master development plan golden Gem Estates owners Tim Birfield Stacy and Robert Moss applicants GL Summit Engineering car of Jeff L summit
PE location west of Golden Gem Road and south of Nightshade Grove Lane and Saddler Road miss Sanchez good evening jean Sanchez with a Miss Let me interrupt you since this is quasi judicial I need to ask the members of
the board has anybody had exparte communication on this matter thank you very much miss Sanchez please carry on for the record Jean Sanchez with the planning and zoning division this is a request to recommend approval of the change of zoning from county A1
citrus roll to city KPIMU Kelly Park interchange mixed use neighborhood overlay district assignment master plan and major development plan for Golden Gem Estates subject properties are located west of Golden Gem Road and south of
Nightshade Grove Lane and South Low Road it is 19.76 acres in size the applicant is requesting a change of zoning to be consistent and compatible with the surrounding properties as well as compliant with the city's comprehensive plan and land development
code the properties were annexed to the city of Apapa on October 16 2024 and a future land use amendment from county role to mix to city mixeduse was adopted on December 18th 2024 by ordinance numbers 3073 and 3074 respectively
master plan major development plan details a subdivision plan for 65 single family detached units on 19 acres the applicant proposes almost three acres of open space that includes a dog park walking area in the central portion of
the subdivision a seating gathering space and a trail around the storm water pond the master plan major development plan shows a connection to Greenshade Grove Lane through the adjacent Gardiniah Reserve subdivision as well as the primary ingress egress and Golden Gem Road they
also proposed the following site design standards including minimum required setbacks of front porch setback of 10 ft side setback of 15 rear setback of 20 and minimum living area of 1300 square ft
these are the architectural renderings proposed by the applicant the DRC recommends approval the recommended motion is to recommend approval of the proposed change of zoning from county A1 citrus rule to city KPI MU Kelly Park interchange mixed
use a neighborhood overlay district assignment master plan and major development plan based on the findings and facts in the staff report staff and applicant are available for questions thank you Miss Sanchez does anyone have questions of staff
commissioner Ryan so when will Golden Gem Road be brought up to city standards um right now we are actually working on getting the interlocal change of jurisdiction for the northern portion of Golden Rim Road into the city with
Orange County um I I actually just received a final draft today and um I have to schedule it for the next available city council meeting to be heard do you have a possible date of completion of this road i don't know a
possible date we're still on the design it's undergoing design right now even though we haven't um taken over the jurisdiction yet so we're at 30% design um I don't have the commencement for construction of the actual road yet to
bring the northern part to city standards will this uh project be finished before the U road is brought to city standards i I'll have to defer that to the applicant i don't have a date for the construction so Okay who who's in charge
of of it is it the city or I'm sorry is it the city or the the developer in charge of bringing this golden gem road at the city standards it is a combination so we will use um
golden gem is actually part of the um Kelly Park pioneering agreement so the design fund came from the pioneering agreement from the escro originally originally golden gem road wasn't part of the pioneer agreement but I guess now it is is that true
i'm sorry repeat that it originally wasn't part of the pioneer agreement the design was not the construction the design of Golden Gem to bring it up to city standard from Capitol Reef Way all the way to Kelly Park Road that's the termini okay is the construction under
the pioneer i am not aware of any construction funding that's probably So we have we have plans and and no funding and no completion date not good okay any more questions of staff yes I I have
a question commissioner uh Miss Sanchez um when you say the northern part of of Golden Gym does the northern part go south of this proposed development yes it's about um it's right south
Capitol Reef Way is within Park View Reserve is is south of Round Lake Road so that it goes farther south south of this uh subdivision right here okay and and my next question is this
development how will this development affect the golden gem water um situation that the state of Florida has now imposed penalties against the city of Apopka
i don't have the answer to that i'll have to defer it to our city engineer or one of our engineers good afternoon vladmin Simonoski i'm the new city engineer um started last Monday so staying
busy uh if you're referring to the uh situation with the Golden Gem Pond yes okay so that's only for storage of recline water so that should not be affecting anything regarding the water system or the wastewater system in this
area so the wastewater collection will continue as planned the water distribution will continue as planned the reclaimed water is still there's a piping system that goes all the way to the north to my knowledge to uh Kelly Park Road actually and even further so
even without that facility being in place right now recline water can be distributed to the new developments okay any more questions any more questions of staff
thank you sir all right i'm sure we have some questions for the applicant anyone have questions the applicant i do okay commissioner Woods your name and address yeah real quick yeah jeff Summit with Summit Engineering 3667 Simon Place
Lake Mary Florida thank you thank you yes sir like close to 80% of the open space is storm water a large portion of the open space is a storm water plan we also have a perimeter buffer track that goes around the development as well it's kind
of hard to see but it's OS1 OS2 and and OS4 that goes around the south side so we do have a perimeter buffer as well that that's part of the landscape buffer around the perimeter of the site and then we have the large interior open space track OS3 that's in the middle interior block there that's that's our
primary recreational open space uh is that a wet pond or a dry pond no this is actually a dry pond and and if you don't mind I'm going to use your question to segue into responding to Mr ryan's previous question in regards to Golden Gym Road so as part of this project in regards to your question
about who's funding and who's building Golden Gym Road as Miss Sanchez says right now Golden Gym Road is in design it's in design it's being it's you know so 30% plans i think they're working on 60% plans as part of that project the city's had to acquire areas to handle
storm water runoff for that roadway improvement so what what I've done in this project and what the city's asked me to do with this project is so the way this pond has been designed we're actually taking 3.85 acres of that roadway project drainage into this pond to help facilitate the construction and
widening of Golden Road so as far as how this partnership is working I just want everybody to be aware that we're trying to we're trying to balance it out right between the city and the public sector and the private sector to make sure that we get this whole thing to work so that when all these projects come together that the facilities are there for the
widening of the roadway so that that roadway project can actually take place and it's not just a a nice set of paper plans that you can never build because you haven't acquired the property you need so I just wanted to to throw that out there in that regard i've got another question for you um
will the will the road be finished by the time your project's finished i I don't I define finish of the project by the time the infrastructure is done or time or by the time all the homes are built i mean by the time the infrastructure is done probably not by the time the homes are all built I don't
know because that depends on sales that depends on velocity so who knows the answer to that question but I know we do have we must have a range of three to five years i mean infrastructure- wise we the goal is to be done with this project this year i I mean as far as sales are concerned no I I can't make
projections on sales i don't do that i mean I I put pipes in the ground and put roads in the ground i don't sell houses so I can't really give you a projection as to how long that would take so well my concern is that the road be ready for your project you know because right now it's not a safe road and you probably agree with that well I understand the
concern it's been a concern we've had with all these projects on Golden Gym Road going back for what I've been doing this like six or seven years now on Golden Gym Road every time we come to these meetings and even the city council meetings that's always the concern and I think the issue has been is that trying to get Orange County to work in concert with the city because Orange County
hasn't paid attention to Golden Gym Road because of the fact that they didn't really care the development that was happening on Golden Gym Road was a city development and so the county wasn't paying a priority or paying any attention to it so with the with the ILA with the city actually taking over control of Golden Gym Road it now gives
the city the ability to control the destiny with the improvements and obviously the first step is going to be design i mean do you do you blame the county for not doing anything because the city of Apaka annex both sides of the road which is money maker the road doesn't make money it's just a liability
there's no tax revenue coming from the Golden Gem Road but there is on both sides of Golden Road but there is revenue coming from Golden Gym Road to the city in regards to traffic impact fees for the developments that are taking place and it's those transportation impact fees that go into the CIP program that fund these construction projects for these
widenings but they go to the city not the county yeah and so there right so there's the catch 22 right the county has no interest in playing get the road to the city and the city's collecting the money so the city wasn't able to do anything because the road control was all that was out here and it was ambiguous and nobody knew what was going
to happen but now that we know what's going to happen with Golden Gym Road right now that we know that the c the city's going to take it you can actually put a plan in motion to get it to get it resolved and that's what we're trying to do for years I've been saying the county is not going to do anything because there's no incentive you know why why should they put millions dollars into a
road with no revenue i wouldn't yeah I wouldn't either so I mean it was between it was basically it's between the city and the developers to figure something out well I think we have I think we finally got there right i think we we've got you're going to have control of the road you have plans but you don't have
funding and you don't have the uh any dates well the and unfortunately that's kind of the old chicken and egg scenario right is you got to have the money before you can set the timing on the funding and then you can set the construction and how do you get the money so either you're going to have to allocate it out of the general fund or you're going to have to take these
transportation impact fees that the city gets when these developments come in and you're going to have to set those funds aside for those improvements and unfortunately there is always a lag in that issue and there's you know unless sorry unless we all have deep pockets with infin infinite amounts of money I don't know how we exactly solve that to
get the roads done before the developments are done well to me the planning means nothing unless there's funding behind it but thank you for your time thank you does anyone else have a question of the applicant uh I'm not I wasn't done yet sure would okay uh if
you take a look at the pond it's right next to Golden Gym Road correct and when it gets widened how close is that pond going to be to the road my concern is overflow
you know the I'm assuming it's built for the hundredyear flood it is it is a dead storage 100red-year flood pond yes but as we all know we can have three storms and the total of three storms will be a
150year flood well I mean we could we can't design for nos we can't do that but what assurance does the city have that that's not going to overflow on Golden Gem and what type of um steps are you
taking to prohibit that from happening well I mean the biggest advantage you're going to have in regards to Golden Gem Road and and any potential overflow is that the road is going to be about four and a half to five feet higher than the pond is okay so the road's already going to be elevated on the pond the pond sits down in a hole so you're you'll flood you'll flood the roads in the
subdivision before you flood Golden Jim Road if if it ever gets that high so you'll be at uh about 4 and 1/2 ft no it's just natural topography it's just just natural topography right there when they build the road up they don't have to No today it's four and a half to 5t
high yeah today it is yeah okay because the top of my pond if I'm And don't hold me to this because I don't have the final plans in front of me i think it's 107 and the roads at like 111 to 113 right there at the low point okay so you are confident that we won't have any
flooding on Golden Gem it'll go into the development i mean we we designed it i mean it's based off city code it's 11.8 in in 24 hours and I did not even use infiltration to do the analysis it's a dead storage pond because there's nowhere for this water to go that is the low point in the local area okay thank
you any more questions of that thank you sir does anyone from the public wish to speak on this matter seeing none we'll bring it back to the board for discussion and a motion i've got a question for Mr
han um is it inadequate um infrastructure a reason to vote no on this pardon me reading the uh the note here uh one of the criteria that's listed
within the staff report um it's the final bullet point you can take a look at that in the staff report would would result in development that is adequately served by public facilities uh in other words streets floodable water sewage storm water management etc
and uh ultimately this is a quasi judicial hearing so decision you make of course has to be based on the evidence you've heard this evening well what I'm telling you is uh one of the criteria that you're obligated to consider is whether the development
would be adequately served by public facilities and that does include uh roads uh and uh you know as far as testimony goes you haven't received any testimony that would not be adequately served this evening ultimately you do have to make
your decision based on you know what you've heard and your either acceptance or rejection of that any more questions i do have a a point and to what you just said i I think we're we're back to the slippery slope
that we have that we as a board are trying to hold the developer responsible or put pressure on the developer to resolve this issue or or question them about the streets and and I think it's the you know taking the horse out of the barn
after it's too late um I I I don't know that's a slippery slope it's kind of like with the school thing where the schools never have adequate thing and then do we let the development go to fund the roads to get the roads done or put pressure on the
city or the county or whoever to do the roads so how do you hold the people who have bought property there and want to develop it accountable for something that's really out of their control they don't have any any ability to push it forward yes and ultimately you heard
some of the testimony addressed impact fees and impact fees are paid to address that infrastructure and are paid after uh they're paid at the time of permitting and so yes I mean as far as road construction and building construction the house will be done far before the road the impact fees will
will come as an after can't say I can't say that necessarily uh roads may be constructed or they they could be constructed concurrently with the development as you said you know the stages of the development uh you know first the infrastructure goes in and then over a period of years and depending what a phasing plan is and so
forth the size of the development you know development in homes may take you know uh an indefinite amount indefinite period depends on each development no I I understand but say in the real world that usually Usually the road improvement follows the development oftentimes that is the case and that's I
think that's exactly what we're looking at in this particular case yes sir but so how do we how do we weigh that out that that's that's a difficult decision for us to say okay this road will not support the subdivision is really a bad idea well wait a minute you know that's
not the responsibility of the applicant or the builder or the people with the money behind it so it's a difficult thing is it fair to them to hold them accountable that the road's not up to speed when their impact fees of course will help push that process and I guess
from the testimony earlier it's in process and we're working towards that but we're not there yet so and that's the purpose of traffic studies and so forth to come during the the development process to ultimately make sure that is supportable okay all right thank you all
right ready for a motion mr chairman I'll make a motion to find the proposed change of zoning from county A1 Citrus World to City KPI MU Kelly Park Interchain mixeduse neighborhood overlay district assignment
master plan master development plan consistent with the comprehensive plan and land development code and compatible with the character of the surrounding areas and recommend approval based on the findings and facts presented in the staff report and exhibits thank you sir motion by Commissioner
Mott do I have a second i'll second the change of motion from change of zoning second by Commissioner Ryan all in favor say I i any opposed motion carries right on the site
plans excuse me onich excuse me Onich South major development plan applicants Appen Engineering Carob Luke Clyson uh location southwest corner of Anditch Road and FE Drive as this is quasi quasi
judicial I would have to ask the board if anyone has had exparte communication on this matter no no seeing none we'll bring it back miss Sanchez again Jean Sanchez with the community development department this is a request to recommend approval of the
Onich South residential major development plan the subject properties are located on the southwest corner of Onage Road and Drive it is approximately 54.85 acres in size the properties are within the KPIMU
Kelly Park interchange mixeduse zoning district as well as within transition and neighborhood district overlays the major development plan details plan for a mix of residential products comprising 326 single family detach and attached units and a future commercial
development on a 1.37 acre tract the plan calls for 193 20 foot wide town home units 95 rear loaded lots with 30 foot wid 30 feet 34 feet of width and 38 rear loaded
units with 40 feet of width the transition overlay requires an open space area of 15% equivalent to 6.01 acres based on their transition area overlay and the neighborhood overlay requires 20% corresponding to 2.9 acres
based on the area for their neighborhood overlay district this totals about 8.93 acres of open space the applicant proposes 11 these acres of open space that encompasses an amenity area playground
buffer and a mati storm water pond internal connection points offered from the south of the subdivision that includes a link to the crossroads development to the south via Firebush Drive rightway and two others east of said row the plan also shows traffic
calming elements such as a traffic circle and on street parking along the east and western spine rows the landscape plan proposes a diverse variety of trees that includes live oaks red maples sycamores and southern magnolia trees located within
the project area and installed with root barriers to block or redirect tree roots preventing damage to structures and pavements the DRC recommends approval the recommended motion is to recommend approval of the major development plan
based on the findings of facts and staff reporting civets staff and applicant are available for questions thank you Miss Sanchez i want to have questions of staff i have a lot of questions okay i have a couple yeah I have a
couple questions um Miss Sanchez I don't uh in the whole packet it was listed as page 88 of 107 i couldn't get it to pull up here fast enough so I went directly to the packet so it's showing it's page
eight of 15 and it's a color uh a a um section where there's color and essentially the red is here's where the trees are going to be removed and the green is trees that are going to be retained right is is what I'm looking at
and so one of the questions that I had in the very bottom right hand corner um I can see where there's a storm water pond and of course you're going to take the trees out where the storm water pond is going to be but just adjacent to that which would be I believe east um or just
to the right of that bottom one on this one here in the very bottom just to the right of that it says commercial site and it shows um green circles of trees that appear that they're going to be retained my question is when that
commercial site is developed I would guess that those trees would be leveled and is that included in the formula of the numbers as if those were
going to be removed even though they're lit or shown as green i'll I'll let the applicant um answer that question am I Am I saying that i understand your question the retention the canopy retention well Well and
because it's a commercial site at some point in the future that would be developed and then these green trees being retained are within the if it's counted towards their retention right now yeah they're in the formula
yeah um Miss Sanchez hang on Miss San let's finish with the staff questions first and then you can bring that back up okay okay okay um anyone else have anything for staff all right commissioner Ryan
these are all town houses it looks like no they're both attached and detached so there are smaller lots um the 20 foot wide lots are town homes and the 34
Bungalow and 40 lots are uh detached units correct like bungalows you mean bungalows is what they call it okay is there Is there any room for trees on these small lots tiny lots because I I know that last development there was a minimum of three trees per
lot is there any minimum for these lots and if not why not there are required street trees on here and there are lots required so the landscaping plan um unfortunately when the land development
code was contemplated the development design guidelines in particular that requires canopy trees on all single family lots we've had to have interpretations especially in the past about what kind of trees they would be
in order to prevent um larger trees that would take over and destroy pavement and infrastructure so the previous um internal interpretation has been to allow them to substitute smaller understory trees especially if they are
adjacent to um public rights of ways um in this case though a uh I have required or we've required most of the trees especially along the rights of ways or infrastructures to have root barriers so um there are rooms uh for
lot trees and there's also um in the plans for street trees are there trees required in every lot there are trees required in every in every lot yes sir okay there's
326 units is that correct yes okay um Mr how I emailed you some questions this morning yes and I have the public um city engineer here who can answer those questions do you already answer those
yes good afternoon well Mr manowski again okay my first question is is there any plans to increase the city wastewater treatment capacity before 2029 the city is currently working with the water resources engineering consultant
on the plans and actually the renewal if I my collection certainly will the the renewal of the permit is due in July 2028 so the design will most likely be addressed prior to that uh I'm not sure
it's going to depend on the development of the plans on the funding and other factors probably when construction can start and when the project will be completed typically for a project like this it will most likely be additional 5 million gallons a day uh wastewater
treatment plant right which is the equivalent of the one that was placed in uh 2019 at the end of 2019 so it should take about two years for completion uh it can take up to three
years depending on materials and equipment and we know how that goes typically with construction especially now okay so there's no plans and there's no funding in place to increase capacity which will project the best the most um
estimated is is early 2029 and we're less than four years away from that um yes so the the plan is to expand the wastewater treatment plan to at least 5 million gallons a day
okay back in July um June of last year you were at 70% capacity do you have any idea what capacity you're at now i'm not sure again I'm only a few days here in the city so I we we can look into that
and probably by the next meeting we can have some of that data available for you yeah I would like to know what what capacity what percentage of capacity we're at now um I think that's it for now thank you very much thank you all right does anyone have questions on
the applicant I can repeat my question if you need me to i think I have it all um let me let me um Mr cl let me uh ask you just one thing so my question is about that commercial uh section there in the bottom right hand corner and then at the
top of of this um sheet it's not the one that's on the screen right now the one that has the color the red and the green where trees were removed there is a um a section kind of in a cloud bubble
it describes the tree mitigation and it has numbers and so when you're answering question I'll just ask my last question to you because this property has a massive amount a massive amount of trees
that you know that are on and will will be removed and it it has them in inches the amount of tree removal in inches so I I get that and I understand that and then it has you know um the total inches
that are on site currently is 12,523 inches the um inches that are going to be removed are 11,670 the inches going to be replaced which is not the green those are going
to be saved replaced would be what you would plant after the fact and then it talks about um total inches deficit 7,98 um so my question additionally about the commercial lot and then the
deficit that deficit can you explain where that goes and what happens to the deficit sure uh Luke class just for the record Luke class and Aen Engineering 221 Lee Road so to answer your question I'll try and take them in order the way you asked them for the commercial trees
yes there are some tree saves in that commercial lot there is some grading we're trying to do to flatten out the pad make it um viable for sale so that it's more attractive to potential buyers um the tree saves are on the roadway adjacent to the rideway dedication right there on Effie Drive as well as on the
southern side those tree saves and some of our canopy aren't included in our total canopy collection uh tree saves but they are included in our total tree saves our thought process is that you don't know what ultimately is going to go there like if a if it's a mini warehouse then they're going to wipe the
whole thing it's just very impervious but if it ends up being like a playground or a daycare center then that might save a lot more trees you just don't know what the end use is going to be and so we are counting them if that comes in in the future when it comes in in the future for commercial development city staff will make them reservey those
trees and if they do mitigate if they do remove those they'll have to mitigate for those and have to take those into account so it's not that the the city it's not that they can get double counted like we can count them to keep them now but then take them down later if they take them down later with whatever the commercial comes in in the future they'll have to count for those
as well so you always have the same count it'll be an accurate count but we are keeping as many as we can while still gradient and making it a viable out parcel for sale uh with regard to the tree saves um on the you talking about to the ones
to the north along on no no the the um the deficit of inches what what happens to that the deficit so here at this MDP stage city staff has already sent us out a when there's a deficit you have a tree mitigation fee and they can answer better for that there's a whole calculation in the code on how you pay
for that there is a certain amount of canopy retention we've met that requirement we do have one of the benefits of doing a more dense project where you have all reloaded projects is that you provide more open space areas and areas for people to play and so we have different open space little aloves and little tracks and sections as well
as doing a perimeter kind of buffer in doing that we're able to manipulate the grading a little more to save as many trees as we can because you have larger open space areas um but a lot of the trees in the area that you see development because it is rear loaded there's not much of a chance to remove
to to save trees it's just the the space between homes is just too small and so it just doesn't is this where the term tree bank tree bank is one of the things you can call it the tree mitigation fee is what the city staff is I think officially calls it tree mitigation fee and so we
the developer pays into for for development like this there's no way to meet the proposed plantings uh the tree if you planted that many of the trees in the open space areas they would just kill each other and you wouldn't get a good actual landscaping so you plant what's appropriate and what's
right and then the deficit you pay into a tree mitigation fund the tree the city can use that for a multitude of things whether it be a park plantings um future developments they can they can use it for whatever they see fit i'm sure there's codes and requirements on what they're allowed to use it for but it goes into a specific fund um I'm sure
Blanch probably handles that separately okay thank you no problem any more questions yes um storm water sure it's my big topic um taking a look at your plans it looks
like you have three different storm water ponds there there's two two total storm water ponds one of the Well there's a there's actually going to be four there's two two main ponds that we'll call them on the southeast and southwest corner and then the if you look at I don't want to call it the
northwest but it's the northwest of that leg that comes out it's kind of L-shaped there's a small pond because of the way the road connectivity is to the crossroads development uh we're tying in the roadway there their roadway connection is lower than our site so we had to drop a small pond just to handle that small section of roadway the same
thing for FE FE drive um it's lower than our site so we had to create a small pond just to handle that entrance so the small ponds are only for a short portion of roadway i would call it like call it about 150 ft of roadway
okay and so then your two main ponds down at the bottom um are where the bulk of your drainage will go into yeah about 98% it's about 1% for each one of the small ponds the great great majorities in those two ponds and now are you
splitting that 50/50 or how is that going to work there's a basin map that we split it we actually already have our St john's permit uh I can provide if you'd like but it it really depends on it's not necessarily 50/50 it's a probably closer to 6040 more of it goes to that southwest corner than goes to
the southeast corner and and that's really based on topography what the existing grades are and what your proposing grades are so how you can collect it and where you can run that water really runs that in addition to what like once you get your geotech report and you find out what the soil the underlying soils will allow what
kind of um paracity it has how fast the water drains that that plays a lot in the storm water design but I I don't know that I'd want to assign numbers but if you want to I'd say it's probably closer to 6040 okay and what provisions do you have when they overflow so they
have uh emergency overflow we and so there's there's Each one of them has a overflow weird that's designed for it and where does it go so in this southwest area the crossroads has three different se the crossroads development which is a separate development this
property was already draining that direction and so they have um three sea inlets to collect off-site drainage and they bypass their pond and go to a low depression area in their site it would pop there this one goes to the the one to the southeast goes to the south there's a it drops about 40 ft in
elevation a little bit further to the south and so the emergency we would drop down to that lower elevation and you have agreement from the property that it's going to flow on not for emergency purposes you don't need agreements um are they aware that you are building
your development that in case of an overflow it will be going on their property yes sir so in in the case of an emergency it always goes downhill and and the lower property or the whichever properties at a lower elevation doesn't have the right to block someone upstream
yeah but no my question is are they aware that that's how you designed your ponds uh I don't know if they're aware but they're aware that they're at the bottom of the hill yeah okay but you've had no communication with them they did have communications with this developer
um as a potential for a future phase to to move down so there's already communications to potentially add them onto this because we are doing a roadway subout and utility subouts to them yeah and my only concern is that Oops here it comes and they haven't
made any plans for it to come my only concern is notifying them hey you know you're downhill and if these things do overflow it's a coming down to see you neither one of these ponds actually um discharge during the design storm events
uh as Jeff was actually speaking about earlier the the the requirements in water management district today are much different than they were in the 70s 80s and 90s they're much more stringent and so you have to design you have to really overdesign for what these storm events are and so the
neither one of these actually discharge at all and so for the up to a 100redyear storm event the ponds will handle all the storm water and just hold it back in as you brought up you can have up to three storms back to back to back understanding if in that case of emergency it will continue to go down we are not the bottom we are not the the
the valley or the bottom section and so there are different requirements for them as they as you get down there but for us we more than designed what our requirements are and there really shouldn't be any discharge from our ponds to the adjacent properties unless you have an emergency situation like you indicated okay um question for the
attorney can we Is there anywhere in the code that there has to be communication with for uh properties on situations like this no I'm not I'm not aware of any um there
may be a question to their staff as far as that goes but what I'd also point out is of course you're dealing with um some of the permitting the state agency permitting uh you know in these cases um but um I'll let you this underwent on
South underwent um annexation as well as future land use change and reszoning the reasoning for this required a master plan that accompanied it which is actually really very similar to the major development plan now those
entitlement processes requires public hearing notifications and yes Crossroads is aware crossroads aware of everything going on in the Kelly Park interchange because they are part of the pioneering agreement so they know this is there and
coming okay thank you and just to add some additional information um uh you know as as Gene pointed out uh Sanchez any type of anytime anytime you have that type of a situation there is a proximity requirement to provide notice in
addition of course to uh notice um that it's just general newspaper notice so I don't know what the proximity is per se but there may be some notice that is caught up in that just depending on how close the developments are to each other that is required um just to make sure I
answered your question sir thank you all right Commissioner Washington okay thank you Mr chairman uh just two questions A and B um the traffic any thoughts about how much traffic will be generated and put out uh
onto Effie and of course Effie goes terminates at Envitch and also terminates down to Kelly Park correct correct yep so you have 300 and some odd homes and a lot of folk lot of folks lot of cars yeah there you think about all that yep
i was just trying to wait for your answer for your full question sorry uh there is some thought and put into that so we did coordinate with they're both Orange County roads and so we're kind of this is a similar situation as other developments that have been brought for this commission before where you're adjacent on and Effie Road are both
county roads all the internal roads and the connections that we're making to the west are city roads we coordinate with Orange County there's uh existing 90 foot rideway for Onage Road so there's no rideway dedication for Effie Drive we're proposing additional 20 foot rideaway dedication to account for the future widening and expansion of Effie
Road we're also doing the turn lane improvements um on Effie Road and we're paying some additional fees for the intersection that for the additional trips generated for Effie Drive and Onage so we have a separate agreement that we're working with on that to accommodate this growth it's kind of like a they call it a prop a proportion
share agreement so we're doing a prop they call it prop share agreement right so we're accounting for that as a future signal and a future improvements to that intersection and so we're we're basically saying we understand that we're going to put a portion of trips at that intersection we'll prepay our proportionate share of that intersection
improvements okay good question B is um uh your project is uh not any different than a lot of other project projects in the Papka area with being in small homes um and one thing just jumped out at me
today again is that 195 units are 20 foot wide homes totally that's correct and I'm just sitting in my house saying "Well 20 feet wide could I live in a house that's 20t wide is that great the town homes are 20 ft
wide the attached units correct the detached are 34t lots and 40 foot lots correct yep from It's 20 ft wide yeah it's a shared wall long right thank you so
um just out of curiosity what is the target market for those homes who would want to live in a house i I will tell you a lot more city employees i will tell you a lot more than you think um so I I own a small business and a lot of my employees are very interested in the
town homes they're they're attractive for different reasons um the maintenance on them is really the main thing that I'm seeing a lot of my employees and a lot of the generation that is coming for us as first-time home buyers are interested a you can buy them at a much cheaper rate you're talking about 100
150 $200,000 cheaper than a typical 50- foot lot a house that you would have probably bought when you were a young single young married man um and so that's attractive to people to have that affordability in addition to maintenance you no longer have to mow your lawn every Saturday in the summer because in
town homes you have a HOA that takes care of that and so the maintenance you also share the cost of redoing your roof every 15 20 years you don't have to consider that you pay that as a monthly fee an additional fees so the just the the maintenance of that the home they replace the annuals they replace the
irrigation they have it on different schedules it's it's a it's a different it's almost like the a halfway point between apartments and and a single family home right uh they are still considered single family fee simple but it's it's kind of a a mix point right and so I think there's a lot more people maybe not uh my generation or your
generation but there's a lot more people today uh and and if I was a young single or young married couple I'd probably consider something like that as well with with young kids myself I don't I would not consider that I want a bigger backyard that I can play in but um I think there's a lot more people than you would think that are very interested in those all right and these uh units are
they rearloaded every single one is reloaded correct so some Some of them let's say a little more than half rough roughly half are rearloaded town homes meaning they're attached the other half of them are uh detached rear loaded so they call them bungalow units but Okay
so um a lot of folks love these um long trucks the dualies mhm so uh somebody has a dual I guess they can park in their driveway behind their unit yeah so I think the city code into
the street that's my point yeah we took that into account when we did this because we understand especially in a popular there's definitely a higher percentage of trucks than in some other areas of of the central Florida area or central Florida overall so by the aop code I want to say it's only a sixoot rear setback limitation from the
alleyways we provided 25 in addition to the additional uh distance between the rideway line and the alley and so it's a minimum of 25 ft which you can easily fit a Julie truck good thank you all right any more questions thank you
sir is anyone from the public here wish to speak on this matter seeing none we'll bring it back to the board for discussion and a motion mr chairman I got a discussion point for the board here all right Commissioner Dooie thank you uh Commissioner Mock and
Woods i appreciate you bringing up the storm water and also the trees obviously I've talked extensively about the landscape plans for this and you know I think it's it's sad that there's so many trees that are being destroyed and and the green space is somewhat at a minimum
for this project but it is consistent with the land development code and I think that's really where we need to focus this addressing and get the green space requirement up and also work on preserving some of these uh trees i mean these mature trees when they're cut down
we're never going to see them again in our lifetime look like this and I think we're missing an opportunity to preserve some of that that's just my point on it again I think this project is consistent with the land development code but that's not incumbent on the applicant to uh to change land development code
that's incumbent on us to recommend it which is what I am doing again recommending changes to land development code thank you well the land development code also require adequate infrastructure to support the development so I think it's lacking there sure sure
good point all right anyone else all right ready for a motion mr chairman uh I'll make a recommendation to find the proposed onage south major development plan consistent with the comprehensive plan
and land development code and recommend approval of the major development plan based on the findings facts presented in the staff report and exhibits all right thank you sir motion by Commissioner Mott do I have a second second second by Commissioner Washington
all in favor say I any opposed no any opposed one no i thought you said yes sorry no okay and Mr mr how please tell the city commission that um this did not pass unanimously and my concern
with the wastewater treatment capacity yes that'll be in the staff report that goes forward that the it would not be a unanimous approval of recommendation also tell them that there's no plan for um a wastewater treatment increase
capacity and there's also no funding okay all right site plan number two Roseville Farms LLC Wolf Lake phase 2 major development plan applicants Appen Engineering Carvidio
Sanchez location northeast corner of Ponan Road and Ponan Pines Road as this is quasi judicial I would have to ask the members of the board has anybody had exparte communication on this matter yes sir very well Miss Sanchez
for the record Jean Sanchez with the planning and zoning division this is a request to recommend approval of the Wolf Lake Ranch phase 2 major development plan the subject property is located located on the northeast corner
of Ponen Road and Pon and Pines Road approximately 29 acres in size the major development plan comprises the development of a private residential subdivision with 59 single family detached unit a typical lot width of 80
ft and living area of 2,000 square ft access to this phase is through the Wolf Lake Ranch phase one a secondary a secondary access is also shown shown on Punk and Pines Road on phase two phase one and phase two will yield a total
development of 120 units based on the sum of the areas of both phases portions of phase one lot 15 and track B will be removed from that phase and added to phase 2 via the platting process that will result in the affformentioned total
units the applicant proposes 8 acres of open space that includes buffer and aati storm water ponds in the phase 2 portion as well as passive and active recreation areas constructed under phase one such as walking trails sports fields
playgrounds and picnic areas apologies this is actually the landscaping plan not the architectural and it proposes planting of red maples cedars sycamore Japanese blueberry trees and live oaks in the project
area the DRC recommends approval the recommended motion is to recommend approval of the major development plan based on the facts and findings in the staff reporting exhibits staff and applicant are available for questions thank you Miss Sanchez anyone have questions of staff
i have a question mr chairman Commissioner Dooie I saw that the uh the developer is applicant shall enter into a concurren concurrency mitigation agreement with the Orange County Public Schools what is the process for that um I will let them tell you
hi there Tina Damasny with MI Homes 400 International Parkway Lake Mary Florida 32746 um we are in the process of working through we have to do a um concurrency mitigation agreement so they've determined that there's not capacity they've determined the number of seats
that we'll have to pay for um and we are in the process of entering into the agreement with the school board um because we've got the previous phase that's vested and we're putting one unit up there um we had we were working with them to figure out if they wanted the full legal description partial so um
just got that figured out this week so um now I can get the legal description to them that they want and move forward with the agreement so and how long does something like that normally take they said um in their application and I and I think it's been pretty good about two months so okay so three months long just
depend if you like miss a hearing they have you know schedule it's also worth noting that those school CMA the the concurrency mitigation agreements is a triparty agreement so um it goes to you all for execution the
applicant school board and then it goes to city council for sign up by the mayor oh okay good thank you all right any more questions commissioner Wood of the staff or applicant uh applicant applicant ma'am
you look too um my typical storm water questions oh well this is going to be this guy for sure or TJ this is an easy one okay i see that phase one and phase two are
sharing storm water um ponds how is that working out um uh phase one stormwater pond is handling all of the phase one runoff and uh rainwater and the phase two is only handing handling the phase two area okay
because I see um BB and CC tracks are listed as storm water bonds and is one in phase one and one in I couldn't make that out looking at the
map go back I think the confusion is so the diff the right there between phase one and phase two there's a ridge line and so phase one this is just phase two right this shows the two ponds to the north there's one pond to the south that runs along Ponaman Road there's a
there's actually a really big hill there's a lot of elevation difference all of phase one drains to the south adjacent to Ponam Road currently and phase one is a standalone development as it is phase two there's two additional ponds that we go over top the ridge and we start to drain to the north then okay
well the note said that they were sharing ponds that's why I had to push I couldn't figure out how they were going because what you were saying there how they were sharing one HOA so there will be one master HOA over the whole development and so they're going to
share the amenities we're putting some local amenities up top so the people in the south southern portion which on this plan that's showing these bottom lots right here that's kind of the line between phase one and phase two you can kind of see it there when I'm moving the cursor um but there is going to be a master association that will manage all
of it but this part will um you know be clatted by it on its own and you know storm water function yeah I understand all I was saying that in the notes it said that phase one and phase two were sharing storm water ponds and I was just
curious because of that ridge uh when I was out that way um how that was going to work but so what you're telling me is phase one has a unique pond to themselves and phase two will be sharing
two pawns yes okay thank you all right any more questions i got one of staff okay all right i'm I'm going to make a point of order right now because this makes me crazy when we're having when the staff is speaking and I say who any questions the
staff then we have this we ask questions of the staff because I was afraid of this exact situation because then the staff defers to the applicant the applicant comes up now the staff comes back and it it creates confusion and and a person without the YouTube video trying to figure out what's going on and
who's talking is impossible so and I'm not admonishing you I guess probably staff when staff's time's up there and there's a question that the applicant needs to answer don't turn around and say Oh well let me ask it no you stay here and answer a question you can't answer you say it's question for the applicant then when it's time for the
applicant the applicant can come up and it keeps it clear and concise because it's making me crazy okay so when staff is up there you ask a staff question if this question is deferred you wait and then we'll ask the applicant when it's their turn and that way we don't have people going back and forth okay rant
off yeah that worked for me thank you fair point fair point so my question with staff was just thinking back on the punk and road situation now we've had a couple developers come up through here or or residents that were expressed concerns about the safety of that road
on the curve was there any questions or consider let me say concerns raised in by city engineers or the road experts on this situation or the ability of Pank and Road to handle the flow plus whether
that curve is safe or not um I'm not I'm not sure then let me ask Diana would you or or Vlad All right is that if that's a question for the engineer then you have to say okay it's a question for the engineer do you
understand and now if you say who you are and and the reason being is and again I'm not trying to beat on this but if everybody speaks out of turn or we have people changing and the YouTube record is gone who's going to transcribe this who asked that question who answered that question and that's the
reason why when some when I say does anybody have any questions the first words out of my mouth is commissioner Ryan now if commissioner Ryan asked a question and he speaks up in the middle of it now we don't have any way to track it so it's it's a Robert's rules of order thing but and it's not mine it's
it's for the efficiency of the meeting so we have a clear and concise record okay uh for the record again Vladimir Simonovski city engineer uh I'm sorry Commissioner
Dumi the new road the phase two proposed is actually all private roads that is all internally connected and there's no direct connection to West Pumpkin Road that's my recollection of the project now uh I believe the other uh road where
they connect it's called Punkin Pines it just perpendicular to pumpkin road so yes we would bring some additional flow to the pumpkin road that's for sure uh the other issue with that is Pumpkin Road is still jurisdictional in the
county and really this project does not reflect directly any additional work to Punkin Road so there's no additional need for let's say right away permit in this situation right okay now with other new
developments that eventually will be re-evaluated both by the city and by the county but ultimately the county makes a decision of what improvements are required for Ponkin Road at this point and maybe at some point that road will be transferred over to the city but
that's again thank you another topic all right any more questions for the engineer all right very well any more questions for the applicant very well is anyone from the public here wish to speak on this matter
seeing none we'll bring it back to the board for discussion and a motion mr mr chairman I I'll make a motion to find that the proposed Wolf Lake Ranch phase 2 major development plan consisted with the comprehensive plan and land development code and
recommend approval of the major development plan based on the findings and facts presented in the staff report and exhibits thank you sir motion by Commissioner Washington do I have a second second by Commissioner Woods all in
favor say I any opposed motion carries all right site band number three Plymouth Harbor Major Development Plan owners Plymouth Harbor LLC George Macaulay Armani Farms LLC applicant Jeff Summit
PE location Westside Plymouth Sto of Bailey Hill Road as this is quasi judicial I need to ask the board has anyone had exparte communication on this matter no sir very well miss Oh Mr how look at you got
almost called you Miss Hal that caught a lot of things thirst's wife yeah right for the record Bobby How planning manager plymouth Harbor Major development plan proposes 86 single family dwelling units at a density of
2.16 units per acre property is located on the west side of Plymouth Srento Road north of Bailey Hill Road future land use designation is residential low suburban which permits a maximum density of three and a half units per acre however the applicant is proposing a
density maximum density of 2.16 dwelling units per acre and the zoning is residential single family 1B the RSF-1B permits a maximum or minimum lot size of 8,000 square feet minimum lot width of 75 ft and the major development plan
details the design of the proposed subdivision in accordance with the requirements of the residential low suburban future land use category and the RSF-1B zoning district the site is accessed by a left and right turn lanes on Plymouth Sarrento Road a 30 foot wide right ofway dedication is reserved along
the portion of the property of budding Plymouth Srento Road for future road widening storm water is proposed to be discharged into a pond located in the central portion of the site 36% of the site is set aside as open space minimum of 20% is required this consists of the
storm water retention area playground dog park and site this dog park and site landscaping the proposed use of the property is depicted on the major development plan is consistent with the residential low suburban future land use designation is detailed within the comprehensive plan and is consistent
with the land development code the development review committee recommends approval and the recommended motion is approval uh myself and the applicant are available for questions thank you Mr h anyone have questions of staff commissioner Ryan is are there turn
lanes for northbound traffic and southbound traffic into that subdivision yes so let's see right here that would be northbound this left turn that lane that you see and then there's a right turn lane leading from southbound is
there any plans to widen the road yes as I mentioned there is a dedication of 30 ft of rideway where you see this tracked line right there for future road widening for future roadway yes it's I don't think it's imminent at this time okay okay we kicked it down the road
okay yep mhm i can hear the can all right thank you Mr how all right any more questions of staff all right commissioner Wood uh what's on the north side it's vacant property I believe pardon me
vacant property I believe okay yes all right thank you is the applicant here and do they have a presentation jeff Summit Summit Engineering again for the record I don't have a presentation i'll be happy to answer any questions if you have any very well anyone have
questions of the made you walk up here for no reason that's okay i need the exercise very well anyone from the public here wish to speak on this matter seeing none we'll bring it back to board for discussion in a
motion mr chairman I'm uh happy to create the motion but I'm glad to see that the green space on this is well above the minimum so given that I'll happily make the motion to recommend approval of Plymouth Harbor major development plan subject to the findings and the staff report and exhibits no sir
easy there Big thank you motion by Commissioner Doomy do I have a second yes I do commissioner Ryan all in favor say I i any opposed motion carries all right bear with me a second we do have
one thing uh do we have any old business anyone have new business all right I have new business um Bobby um by our to ordinance that we are one
of the things here is that we are to act to the local planning a city under state law and local planning agency number one is prepare the city's comprehensive plan and amendments to comprehensive plan and I know that when we amend it you know we come you guys come here ahead of time
what what I would ask is that and I know I have a copy of it that I was given when I started this but I know it's been changed 46 times since then can we get a current copy of the comprehensive plan for each a printed copy and I I I
realize everybody wants to do a digital but a printed copy because a lot of us are old folks up here and we like pieces of paper because a lot of the questions sometimes that we have if if we know what the code is or we have it there in front of us like you know like a storm water issue or parking issue we can look
at it and then if if we know when I look and say "Okay we're going to change comprehensive plan number blah blah blah blah blah." When I get that from from Aaron prior to the meeting I can look it up and see what it is understand the whole thing because you know because of time constraints you can't go through
the whole two pages of that code related where we can do that in our at our leisure and and I think it's important that we have an updated copy that everybody has access to one and thank you for commissioner Ryan to point that out because very valid point yeah we'll get you a copy of the current existing
comp plan as it is and I will just let everybody know that um next month at planning commission we will have the rewrite of the comp plan brought forward we had it originally scheduled for this evening however there was an error with advertisement with the newspaper uh so therefore we couldn't meet uh public
hearing notification in Well that would be great if you could give us what that is yes ahead of time and I know she sends it ahead of time but I'm just saying for our our own notification we can look it up and read and have an understanding what it is because sometimes we ask questions that may seem redundant to you because you guys know
the code you wrote it and you you work with it every day we don't so it might streamline things a little bit you got it and and it takes a little bit to read through 700 pages because I think the last read was over
700 pages and um Mr chairman I'd like to you know bring something up here in the new business part kind of um tagging on to what you're you know sharing and and and requesting a lot of what we do here and
what comes before the planning commission the determination is in the master plan so to get the master plan where it says and stipulate certain things that's where we need to
concentrate so you know so I'd love to have as much time as possible to read through that because um the last time I read through it I had eight pages single spaced of items that I had noted that I'm like "Wait a minute wait a minute
wait a minute." And you know and I come from that perspective having sitting and listened here and you know we come up here you know it's fine that we you know ask questions i ask questions about the trees you know etc and that type of thing um I think we rightly are now
asking a lot of questions about the storm water management and the water and rain runoff etc and that type of thing we ask about traffic we ask about road building um I think we have somewhat given up on the school um aspect because
um while we can have a conversation about the schools that's set by the state of Florida and it's set by Orange County Public Schools so if you know I I would encourage anybody that has any concerns about those attend the Orange County School Board meeting and then
start lobbing in Tallahassee to change uh you know I sit there what is it it's 15 or 17 over you know trigger something i'm sitting there going why can't it be eight you know why can't it be half of
17 why you know what what does it you know what does it take so um I'm I'm fully aware that it takes money to build a road and and you and it's not very often that a road gets built without money um in pre-planning it's certainly
the gentleman I think he's already left i certainly understand he has no idea how long it takes to sell a house um you know to to build you know um a development out but you know just just this this week the stories come out
about the the water um situation there on Golden Gem Road and you know potential and fines to the city etc um it's a lengthy lengthy process to go through to get that um all the
permitting all the engineering you know everybody you know coordinated into that so you're we're talking and in fact I think even as I read in the article it's a two or three year period of time that the state has given the city of
Apakka so that's not a quick fix so I would really like to see and I realize this is probably not in the comprehensive plan and if it's not I'm going to suggest that it get put in the comprehensive plan when we come to the
planning you know uh council and ask for us whether it's you know legislative or quasi judicial I would like to have someone say we've already evaluated um I mean verbally for the record verbally for the record even though it is in what
I read on you know in my packet we've already talked to Orange County that does get you know has a conversation and Orange County is fine with the you know overage um we have talked with St john's Water Management and where everybody's
good i think somebody said something about you know being downhill 40 feet and that St john's Water Management approved theirs etc and that type of thing but somewhere in our uh master plan I think that we need to put in
something to the effect that in the beginning okay we're individually looking at this community we do a traffic study about this community we do a water runoff about this community but when these four communities are built we need to have something in the
comprehensive plan that comes back two three years later and combines all four of them together because when you're sitting there looking at a 362 um unit I think the number for traffic
is 1.6 per unit 1.5 1.6 per unit well I can do math pretty quick you know you're you're looking at you know not just a few shy of 600 uh traffic you know patterns where I
live um in in less than a quarter mile just the people that live there i think using the data it's 16,000 trips a day and that does not account for any of the pass through traffic that comes up
and down the road that I'm on so somehow um we need to move away from having a discussion about the roads and etc that well that's the county and that's this and why would the county do this and we need to build something into the
comprehensive plan that says you know here here's a here's a a a warning sign or here's a hard stop sign this is a hard stop we do not move forward hard stop here because of this or you know or
something because when it gets down to a situation where after the fact I'm the type of person I wo the day when I have to apologize for something that I
knew and had forewarning for i do not like interacting in that manner i would you know I mean I'm supposed to be an intelligent person i'm supposed to use my intelligence and oh
well you know it was a you know yeah that was a possibility you know I mean you know it's example where I live I'm I'm standing out there i counted 14 or 15 school buses that use that intersection every
morning fortunately another crash this morning and this is just an example of many other spots in Apopka and in a six-year period of time it's probably close to 30 crashes fortunately it's not been a
school bus yet fortunately there hasn't been a fatality yet i am aware that you can't
um move in such a a fashion that well you know the hundred-year flood if you have three that's you know you could say well you know okay we've met this we've met this but I'm also going okay can we go to uh you know 10% more just in case
because what have we found here in Florida yeah and then we come back and we go through this whole thing you know developments you know we we put these trees we have these things we have the trees and everything and I'd love to see
those drawings where's the current power line cuz one thing that drives me insane is 15 years later to see trees cut in a V just cut the dang tree down don't have pay somebody to cut the tree so the
power line runs through it to me that's not intelligent planning that's just how I go so I would like to see when we have things that come from the DRC to the planning so that goes on and yes the
city council ultimately holds the responsibility to make that decision but we've got to be able to have some information that we can move forward i mean you know the the comprehensive plan I mean it has had some tweaks but how
long has it been years and I'll be interested to read through the 700 pages and to um probably create more than eight pages of single spaced suggestions thank you you're welcome i can tell
you'll never make it as a politician if you read all 700 pages you're supposed to glance at it and vote on it come on all right guys anything else no sir me thank you