I am ready when you are. Okay. We're going to get started then. Let's go on the record. Good morning. I'm administrative law judge Julia Motter, and I have been assigned to preside over this matter. And is the green light on your microphone on? No. It is. Okay. We have a Spanish language interpreter with us today who will be translating my introductory and closing remarks and the comments of any Spanish speaking members of the public. This is an oral proceeding being held for the proposed rulemaking and docket number RE00000ADash24Dash0026
in the matter of the proposed modifications to the renewable energy standard and tariff rules, title 14, chapter two, article 18. The proposal is to repeal the rules entirely. The notice of rulemaking docket opening and notice of proposed rulemaking for this matter were published in the Arizona Administrative Register on 10/03/2025. This oral proceeding is being held as provided under Arizona revised statute section 41 dash ten twenty three to allow adequate discussion of the substance and form of the rule
proposal and to allow persons to ask questions and present oral argument, data, and views on the proposal. This is the final oral proceeding being held in this matter. Can you pull the microphone just a little closer to you? I will begin by asking staff to present information on the proposal and may ask questions of staff to clarify the record. I will then take public comment. If you are physically present and desire to speak, please complete a speaker slip and then bring it up to me. If you are on the phone, please tell the person who answers both your name and that you desire to speak.
Alright. Staff, may I have your appearance for the record? Doug Gallup, staff attorney. Go ahead and introduce Allen with commission staff. And have you prepared a statement of information regarding this rulemaking? Yes. Okay. You can go ahead and present it now. Thank you. Good morning. Allen with commission staff. With this rulemaking, staff is Arizona Administrative Code as directed by the commission. Article 18 is the renewable energy standard and tariff rules, which I will refer to as the rest rules. The commission adopted the rest rules in decision number six nine one two seven and revised portions of the rules in decision number seven four eight eight two.
The rest rules require retail electric utilities or affected utilities to obtain a portion of the utility's annual retail energy sales from eligible renewable energy resources, including distributed renewable energy resources. The rest rules do not apply to distribution companies with more than half of its customers located outside of Arizona. The rest rules were implemented to increase energy diversity and adoption of renewable energy by electric electric utilities and their customers.
In addition, the rest rules were intended to ensure the overall cost and rates charged for electric service over the long term were just and reasonable, the electric utility service to Arizona rate payers was adequate and reliable, and to the extent possible, minimize the overall adverse environmental impacts resulting from electric utility service. Among other things, the rest rules require affected utilities to, on an annual basis, obtain a certain percent of retail electric sales from eligible renewable energy resources with a
percent of the annual requirement coming from distributed renewable energy resources, implementation plan for commission approval detailing how the utility intends to comply with the rest rules during the following calendar year, and file an annual compliance report describing utilities' compliance with the requirements of the rest rules for the previous calendar year. The rest rules also detail the treatment of renewable energy credits or RECs in meeting compliance with the rules. For an electric distribution cooperative that is subject to the rules, the cooperative is required to submit,
for commission approval, an appropriate plan for obtaining retail energy sales from renewable resources in lieu of meeting the annual requirement. The retail electric utilities subject to the resturals are APS, TEP, UNSC, Ajo Improvement Company, Morenci Water and Electric, Duncan Valley Electric Cooperative, Graham County Electric Cooperative, Mojave Electric Cooperative, Navapatri Electric Cooperative, Sulphur Springs Valley Electric Cooperative, and Trico Electric Cooperative. Based on the annual rest compliance reports filed with the commission,
the three largest regulated utilities subject to the rules, APS, DP, and UNSC, have either met or exceeded the annual renewable energy requirement detailed in the rules for the most recent three years reported, 2022, 2023, and 2024. The annual renewable energy requirement was 12%, 13%, and 14%, respectively. The commission has issued decisions granting waivers of various portions of the refuse for affected utilities. For example, in recent years, commission has ordered that many affected affected utilities eliminate or significantly reduce the level of
the rest surcharge collected by a utility customers and the incentives paid to customers participating in rest commission approved rest programs. For APS, TP, and UNSC, since the inception of the rules, almost $2,600,000,000 has been spent implementing commission approved rest programs in compliance with the rules. In addition, APSTP and UNSC have spent over $779,000,000 in incentives paid to customers who have participated in commission approved rest programs. The commission recognized that the incentives paid to participating customers were paid with funds collected
by all customers through commission approved surcharges regardless of participation and voted to eliminate these incentive payments. However, utilities continue to be obligated to pay production based incentives and prior contractual agreements, such as purchase prior agreements that may have ten to twenty years before reaching full payout for eligible renewable technologies. Since the inception of the rules, surcharges have been approved to help fund rest programs implemented by affected utilities in order to comply with the rules. APSTP and UNSC have collected over $2,300,000,000
in rest surcharges from all customer classes. The surcharges collected have been used to administer commission approved programs and pay incentives to customers participating in available programs. For APS, the current commission approved surcharge is seven tenths of a cent per KW wage with a monthly cap of $2.84 and a monthly average residential bill impact of $2.84. The current commission approved budget is approximately $86,200,000 For TEP, the current surcharge is 1.89¢
per KWH with a monthly cap of $10.37 and a monthly average residential bill impact of $8.44. The current commission approved budget is approximately $65,800,000. For UNSC, the current surcharge is 1.23¢ per KWH with a monthly cap of $5.60 and a monthly average residential bill impact of $4.77. The current commission approved budget is approximately $9,300,000. The repeal of the rules would not eliminate any commission approved surcharges unless a superseding
commission decision and either a rate case proceeding or separate rest filing is issued. Staff believes that repeal of the of the rest rules as directed by the commission will have no impact on existing commission approved programs offered by affected utilities. Electric utilities will continue to have the ability to file for approval of modifications to existing rest pro of modifications to existing rest programs or new programs as part of a rate case application or separate application. SAF will continue to evaluate any proposed modifications to existing programs or new programs.
Because several affected utilities, including APSTP and UNSC, no longer offer incentives to participating customers, they therefore do not receive RECs in exchange for energy produced by interconnected DG systems. The RECs were used by utilities to demonstrate compliance with the rest rules. The commission has granted waivers to various affected utilities from using RECs to demonstrate compliance with the rules. Although RECs will no longer be required for compliance purposes, they will continue to have value on the market for electric utilities. For example, if a utility is able to sell RECs on the market,
those revenues could be used as an offset to the REX surcharge or an offset to rates in general. Based on information provided by APSTP and UNSC, the evaluation of different resource types is primarily based on reliability, cost effectiveness, and affordability. Therefore, the repeal of the rest rules will not materially impact the utilities' adoption adoption of renewable resources. However, the utilities have indicated that any potential reduction in federal tax credits and or grants for renewable resources or battery storage could make these resources less economic and make them
less competitive compared to other resources. The revised EIS filed as exhibit b in decision number eight one four five one expanded on and provided additional and a more comprehensive analysis on the potential impacts and implications associated with the repeal of the rest rules. Staff recognizes that information related to APS's clean energy goal included in the revised EIS has changed since it was filed as APS has updated its commitment to a carbon neutral goal. However, staff does not believe that the revised EIS EIS filed has any bearings on staff's recommendations to repeal the rules because the repeal
of the rules was directed by the commission. A second revised EIS may be filed if necessary. Renewable energy techno the adoption of renewable energies tech technology is expanded in part due to the incentives paid to participating customers through the rest surcharge and base rates, and the industry has become a stable market participant. The commission has recognized that the standards contained in the rules are no longer needed to sustain the expansion of the industry as the continued proliferation and adoption of renewable energy resources from all customer classes continues in Arizona.
Staff believes that the repeal of the rules will not eliminate electric utilities investment in renewable energy. Electric utilities will continue to be able to and are encouraged to invest in cost effective renewable energy resources that would benefit their systems and all customers. Customers will continue to be able to install renewable energy resources should they choose to do so. Additionally, staff believes that the repeal of rest rules will reduce regulatory burden by eliminating the requirement of affected utilities to design, develop, and administer rest programs on an annual basis.
Utilities will be able to continue to file for commission approval programs as needed to benefit their customers. This will also help with staff's workload because staff would not be required to evaluate the annual filings, which can take several months for re for review. Further, any current reporting requirement in the rules can be included in a specific commission order with the repeal of the rules. Finally, staff does not plan to provide oral responses to comments received at today's proceeding. As required by decision number eight one four five one, staff intends to address the written and oral comments received concerning this rulemaking in its
memo to be filed in the docket on December 15. Thank you. Thank you. I will now begin to take public comment. I may ask questions to clarify speaker's position for the record. In addition, staff will have the opportunity to respond to statements and to ask questions to clarify speaker's position for the record if staff chooses to do so. For each of you who has provided your name to speak, I will call on you by name and will spell out your last name. When I call on you, if you are here in person, please step forward to the podium.
That's fine. And if you're on the phone, please unmute yourself by pressing 6. Then please confirm or correct the spelling of your name and provide the city or town where you live. If you are speaking on behalf of an organization, please identify the organization and your position with it. And please remember that each speaker is requested to limit their comments to three minutes. If you are reading from prepared remarks, please pay extra attention to speaking slowly and pause occasionally. We also would ask that you file your prepared comments with the commission.
And if you are using the services of our translator today, please pause frequently so that the translation can be made. Alright. We will go ahead and start with Melanie Beckman, b e I k m a n. Please come forward to the podium. Make sure the green light is on before you start speaking, and make sure that you speak close to the microphone. Oh. Hi there. My name is Melanie Bichman. I'm the director with Arizona Interfaith Power and Light. Arizona Interfaith Power and Light brings together people of faith and conscience from across the
state who share a love for neighbor and a love for our common home in Arizona. The current renewable energy standard has been a success, increasing the portion of electricity generated by renewables, but that success is not a reason to scrap the standard. Arizona has abundant sunshine that is providing a cleaner and ever cheaper form of electricity generation. The people we work with are calling for leadership from the commission and from the utility corporations who serve the community. They are calling for a vision of a new energy future for Arizona.
Incentivizing the renewable energy standard is one way to ensure that corporations, often subject to short term planning horizons, will share that long term vision of a cheaper, cleaner energy system for Arizona and its residents. People of faith and conscience are calling for cleaner air and a fossil free future for Arizona. Please oppose we're asking the commission to oppose scrapping the renewable energy standards. Thanks for the opportunity to speak. Thank you. Thank you for your time today.
Today. And if you have just recently joined us, and you wish to speak, please fill out one of the speaker slips in the back, and then you can just bring it up to me, and put it right up here. Okay. Next, we will take comments from Troy Horton, h o r t o n. Thank you, your honor. Commissioners and staff, thank you for listening us today. On a personal note, I have 17 great grandchildren. I have an eighteenth that is coming up the end of the month, another granddaughter. I have a six year old beautiful great,
great granddaughter. The science is crystal clear that they will not have a livable world if we continue to burn fossil fuels. I ask that you and the staff think of your family. I don't know if you have any children, grandchildren, or great grandkids. What type of world will they have to live in? Think of future generations. Indigenous peoples thought of how their actions would affect the next seven generations. I know what is happening to four generations from now that are part of my
family. Three more generations, I am very fearful they will not have a world to grow up in. How will those future generations and your children view the decisions that you make here today and in the future? Will they look back in horror? Or will they appreciate the decisions that you make? As your constituent, I'm asking you to realize that over 80% of Arizonans want action on climate change. It is critical that the commission not only keep the renewable energy standard,
but you should build on the success that it has created. This policy has lowered energy costs, created local jobs, reduced pollution for nearly twenty years. Repealing it would increase the cost of living when so many people are struggling to make ends meet and feed their families. Solar is not only cheaper, faster to build and environmentally important. It allows us to get our electricity from the incredible sunshine resource that we have.
Solar power is lowering electric rates, comes from a local source, creates local jobs and is a much safer source of electricity. The commissioner's job is to serve the people, not corporations. We deserve an affordable, reliable and clean energy future. Please reject any attempt to repeal the RES. Your constituents are begging you, begging you to think of future generations. I'm sorry, I'm getting a little emotional here. We're already seeing what burning fossil fuels is doing to our state.
We're having increasingly more pollution alerts, record high temperatures, lack of water, heat deaths, six hundred plus each of the last two years. Fires and floods, which are starting to make our state unlivable. Will Arizona become a state consisting only of data centers and no people other than those who run them. Arizona voters support strong clean air and climate change climate change actions. Please do the right thing for the people of Arizona, not for corporations that are making record profits.
Voters will be watching what you do and counting on you to do what is best for the citizens of our state. We will do everything we can to make sure they know what you do here today. Thank you. I'm with Scientist Rebellion, Sierra Club Grand Canyon, and Third Act Arizona. Thank you for your time. Thank you, mister Horton, for your time today. I have a speaker slip from Elizabeth. Last name starts with an h. I'm having a little bit of a hard time reading it, and there's no box checked on whether she would like to speak or not. So, Elizabeth,
if you would like to speak Please. Okay. Please come forward and help me with your last name. Perhaps you can miss. Well, wait wait till you get to the microphone, and then you can spell it for us. Elizabeth. Hurricane. Thank you. Thank you, judge and everyone, for showing up. I'm here today with Third Act and, of course, my family that's very interested in Arizona and the good of Arizona and the direction and the forward movement and not back stepping with any repeal of a very important policy that has done so
much for Arizona since about 2006, 2007. We think there should be no repeal of this excellent policy that moves us forward, puts a little, ambition behind the utilities to, use renewable energies in the portfolio. We think updating the rules and making reforms is good and collaborating to not repeal it, expand it, improve it, enhance it. Don't take it away from us.
Five people should not have did I do something? Five people should not have, the power to take away good policy from Arizona that wants to move in a forward direction with clean energy in hand and, be part of a solution, away from fossil fuels that, are destroying our planet at the moment. So thank you again. Please reconsider any repeal of the rest. Renewable energy standards that Arizona has, been a model,
for the nation, keeping these policies going. So, anyway, elections are coming, and we will not forget if you repeal the best policy that Arizona has moved forward with, protecting and, you know, you know, solar is power. I don't know why five people don't realize solar is power. It's domestic jobs. It's homeland security. It's, it's a very good thing. We should keep it in the portfolio. And all renewable energies, we should be moving forward with and not gas methane plants.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Okay. Next, we're gonna take comments from one of our callers on the phone, Albert Putsig, p u t z I g. You can go ahead and unmute yourself by pressing 6 and provide your comments. Good morning. Good morning. Hello. I'm Albert Puthick from hello. I'm Albert Puthick from Queen Creek speaking for myself. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today, judge. I'd like to speak in support of the rescinding of the rest rules. I strongly believe that they should be rescinded in their entirety as recommended by the
staff. Coal fired generation, which was really the target of the rules, has been, for all intents and purposes, killed in Arizona. Although power source from such plants is still generated and imported from other states, particularly New Mexico and Colorado. For instance, Cholla Generating Station in Bullbrook was the first such station built in Arizona and was recently shut down earlier this year. Navajo Generating Station was closed in 2019. Snowflake Generation Station was converted to biomass in 2008, and sunk was converted in 2015 to gas.
Coronado, Springerville, and Apache have all announced conversions to natural gas by 2029. Coal fired generation helped build this state and enabled its economic expansion from the nineteen sixties to the present and provided thousands of good, high paying, and challenging jobs to rural Arizona citizens. In many ways, coal was the unsung and unmentioned sixth c of Arizona. This state's utilities were still investing in coal as recently as 2009 with the commissioning of Springerville Unit Four. Further, coal ash generated from these stations was largely recovered and beneficially reused to improve the
overall performance and longevity of concrete used in construction projects throughout the state and elsewhere in the Southwestern US. The closure conversion of these stations will have significant negative impacts on many rural communities due to the loss of jobs, local tax receipts, and secondary economic impacts as well as raising construction costs throughout the the state. This is a bad deal for Arizona. Federal environmental standards adopted in the early two thousands targeting emissions of particulates, SOX, NOx, and mercury as well as management of water and coal combustion residuals started the domino
effect and caused the closure of many older plants throughout The US. In many cases, some of these environmental upgrades were necessary. State renewable energy portfolio standards came next in the February and February, causing the next wave of shutdowns. The latest wave of shutdowns and conversions are now largely due more to corporate ESG policies and targets. Despite what personal position you hold on ESG, these policies are beginning to have a much larger impact on closures of all types of fossil fuel generation, not just coal, than any other renewable energy portfolio standards are having.
The argument for those in favor of renewable energy portfolio standards was that utilities needed to be forced to make a conversion to wind and solar because of the environmental impacts of fossil fuels and the standards were needed to jump start wind and solar development to overcome high initial costs. We were told that, yes, the cost of these technologies would be high initially, but they would get cheaper as time went on and technologies improved and the supply chain was established due to the initial government assisted jump start. Well, here we are many years down the road and the cost for electricity continue to
rise with no end in sight. We are told by the advocates of renewable energy portfolio standards that rep fossil fuels are to blame for the increase in power costs. However, this is patently untrue, and they know it. Consumer rates began to rise when the build out of wind and solar really started, and it's never stopped. Further, these standards have created artificial economic hurdles for coal fired and combined cycle natural gas stations in particular that were always intended to be run as base load sources of power, not load following as they do now.
Station operators have commendably been able to adapt in to the current load following reality and still remain cost competitive, but this still does not escape the large fixed cost they operate that operating such stations inherently have. If coal fired generators were able to operate as originally designed, their operating costs would be far lower. Electric consumers continue to rank reliability and cost as their two highest priorities. When asked whether they would be willing to pay for extra things like ESG and
renewables, the resounding majority object. This is evidenced in a 2023 Salt River project customer research report. SRP reported, while customers recognize the need and expressed interest in SRP's investments in sustainable energy resources, they do not want to bear the cost of that investment. Like a lot of things, if you ask consumers if they particular they like a particular product without without asking if they'd like to pay for it, they'll say yes. But if you ask if they would like to pay for it, they'll tell you no. We pay for this detrimental mandate in our electrical rates and in our federal and
state taxes in the forms of the billions given away in tax subsidies to will wind and solar developers. I encourage the ACC to follow the staff's recommendation to rescind the rest rules entirely. If wind and solar are indeed the cheapest and most reliable sources of power as we are told by their supporters, they will win out in the market place of ideas rather than on the backs of the rate and taxpayers. Hopefully, as these portfolio and tax policies are rescinded, we will achieve a more balanced portfolio of energy sources where we do not put
all our eggs in one basket, and where we prioritize American made energy and dispatchable resources. In conclusion, I strongly recommend the commission to focus its rule making future rule making on strengthening reliability of their electric grid while keeping costs as low as possible instead of on emotion emotionally driven and governmental mandates dictating required energy source mixes that distort and increase costs, reduce reliability, and reduce future flexibility in meeting the ever increasing power demands of this state.
Thank you. Thank you for your time today. We do appreciate it. Alright. And next, we will take comments from Rhonda Banard, b a n n a r d. Greetings, everyone. Is the green light on? Yes. It is now. Okay. Okay. Great. Thanks. My name is Rhonda Banard, and I am here, sort of wearing a a few hats. I am a a part of Third Act Arizona, which is part of a national organization that champions, efforts to, mitigate climate change and,
support democracy. I'm also, representing, myself, And, it's notable that I did start and run a nonprofit that works with, environmental and climate change nonprofits all across the country and have been learning and absorbing a lot of information in that way. And it's important to state that, in my past, I was very much a part of the downtown, Phoenix and, broader City Of Phoenix business community working both at the Greater Phoenix Chamber of Commerce and the Downtown Phoenix Partnership as well as consulting with a number of clients including
APS many years ago. There was one business leader that I remember interviewing, at the time, and he said Arizona should be the solar capital of the world. And we could have been out front, doing that, but we haven't. I stand here, against the repeal of the rest, renewable energy standards, offering and I actually suggest that the older requirements were insufficient to begin with. We have the opportunity to create the most diverse mix of offerings.
The impacts of nonrenewables impact our health. So when the gentleman prior to me suggests cost, costs don't just come in the form of energy, our energy bill. They come in the cost of our health impacts. Even today, the PM 2.5 concentration in our air in Phoenix today is 3.2 times the amount the World Health Organization's annual guideline. We are being impacted. Our lifespan is being impacted.
Our sustainability and quality of life is being impacted. The affordability of even being able to sell homes if we're lucky enough to own them is going to be impacted. The water usage that we are in dire straits Just over the last few days, there's been several news headlines that we have just passed the the deadline to negotiate water, for Arizona on the Colorado. And renewable energy uses up far less water. It's cheaper. It's renewable. 89% of individuals globally done by research,
through a number of organizations show that they want their governments to do more on climate change. The Arizona Corporation Commission is elected to represent the welfare of the people in this state. And the welfare for people in the state is about diversity of energy sources that protect our health, that reduce our costs, and, make the quality of life and the investments we've made here both in businesses and
in our homes, stay, at the investment that we made. The the comment about going towards natural gas is just not a good pathway to go. While it reduces less c o two than coal does, it it it it has a huge impact on methane. Methane is a really bad gas, and it's 80 times more heat trapping than, co two. That is significant and it's measured and it stays in the atmosphere for about twenty
years. So actually a strategic move on behalf of the ACC would be to reduce methane outputs whether it's from nat gas or from food in our landfills or in a number of other ways. And as we move forward as a sort of technology hub and everyone's seemingly celebrating data centers those are going to impact our costs. Those are going to impact our quality of life and our health. And there is an opportunity for both the ACC and,
government leadership to negotiate better terms so that Arizonans who've been here for decades, which I have been and I've seen the temperature increases over my life time to a point where my kids no longer want to live here anymore. Something needs to be done and to go backwards on the renewable energy standards is the wrong move. In fact we should increase them and inspire, our electric companies to be more diverse and thoughtful in their long term plans.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time and your comments today. Okay. Next, we will take comments from Richard Sigler, s I g l e r. Yes. That's my name. Richard Sigler. I'm here just this was oh, yeah. We're not on. I mean, here just representing myself. Can you hear me okay? I can. Just please make sure you speak slow because we do have a court reporter who also needs to hear and understand you. Okay. Okay. I oppose the elimination of the rest rules because APS will not continue to support
clean energy projects without rules in place. APS withdrew from its zero carbon goal by 2050 in August and pushed back the closure of the 4 Corners coal plant from 2031 to 2038. The cost of utility scale solar has come down $8.82 percent in the last fifteen years. Battery energy storage has dropped from $341 per kilowatt hour in 2021 to $125 per
kilowatt hour in 2024 and is expected to reach an to reach $80 per kilowatt hour mark in 2030. So it just keeps getting cheaper. In the last five years, battery energy storage has just taken off in its adoption and its cost effectiveness. It's just the technology is advancing each year. And it's, and we need to recognize that because it's necessary for solar. And solar has been going getting cheaper for the last fifteen years.
The capacity of installed battery energy storage in The US increased 1016% from 2020 to 2024 and is expected to increase another 525% by 2030. The future is renewables. In Arizona, that means going solar. We don't need to be going backwards. Utilities will make decisions based on what their highest profit will be, not necessarily what is best for Arizonans. This is where the corporation commission comes in.
You are here to make sure that their decisions align with the best interests of the citizens. APS has shown that they cannot be trusted to do this. We do not want to end up with higher energy bills down the road because they make bad energy choices today for the sake of their short term profits. For this reason, I'm asking that you do not repeal the rest rules, but rather increase the standards that are already there. Do this in order to keep the utilities in line because they won't do it
themselves. And, I just wanna say I was looking at the, the world the IEA World Energy Report that they put out just a couple of days ago, and they say the outlook for solar worldwide is is going to be a full fourfold increase in the next five years by 2035. Excuse me. But that's not necessarily the case in what's happening in The United States right now. And we're and I think we're going backwards. And I'm asking that Arizona look look to the future.
The future is renewables, and we need to look to that and not go backwards. And I wanna thank you for hearing what I have to say. Thank you. Thank you for your time today. Okay. Okay. Next, we will take comments from. I apologize for any mispronunciation. Alright. Your honor, good morning. My name is Sapand Elizada. I am with the Arizona Technology Council, located at 2800 North Central Avenue, Suite 1530 in Phoenix. And, I am here today to provide public comments on the proposed repeal of the rest rules.
So many of our members both support and depend on access to clean, renewable energy. They understand the need for an all of the above approach to power Arizona's surging economy and population. Sustaining this growth requires an energy supply that is not only affordable and reliable, but also forward looking. With federal renewable and clean energy tax credits already eliminated, now is the worst possible time to undermine an industry that has delivered so much
progress for our state. Since their adoption in 2006, the rest rules have driven significant investment in low cost renewable technologies. By requiring regulated electric utilities to steadily increase the percentage of electricity generated from renewable sources between 2007 and 2025, the rules have created a predictable framework for private investment in Arizona's clean energy economy, especially in solar and wind. You know, some claim the rules have cost rate payers billions.
That may have been true fifteen years ago when early solar projects were expensive, but the point of policy is progress, and it worked. Solar and wind prices have fallen by more than 80% since those early investments. Today, new renewable energy projects are often the lowest cost sources of energy in our state. Repealing the rules now would cut off the very progress that made clean energy affordable in the first place. As I stand here, you know, I can't say that a repeal of the rest rules will bring an end to renewable energy technologies in Arizona.
This is a resilient industry that has overcome obstacles and hurdles of all kinds. That said, I can say with certainty that repealing the rules will send a troubling message to the rest of the nation. So on behalf of the Arizona Technology Council, I urge the Arizona Corporation Commission to update and not repeal these standards that have done so much good. Thank you for your time and for allowing me to speak. Also, on this Veterans Day week, I wanna thank those on the commission and ACC staff who have served our great
nation. We will always be grateful. Comments from Chris Wass, w a s s. Your honor, I I apologize for interrupting, but could you please come back and spell your name for the for the record? And that was my job to do initially, so I apologize for Okay. My first name is Sapand Elazat Sapand, c e p a n d, and my last name is Alizada, spelled a l I z a d e h. And did you tell us your position with ATC? So I am the government relations specialist with Arizona Technology Council.
Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you all. Alright. Now we will take comments from Chris WASS, w a s s. Hi. My name is Chris WASS. I am cofacilitator of Third Act Arizona, and I very much appreciate the opportunity to speak here this morning. I am here to encourage the ACC to reject the removal of the renewable mandates. It's honestly for me as a proud Arizona, Arizonan, a little embarrassing to have to be here this morning. This is Arizona. We should be leaders in the world in solar power.
Removing the energy, renewable energy mandates sends the wrong signal to the world. I understand that one of the primary arguments for removing it is the progress that renewables have made and that they no longer need to be supported. The work in solar energy, for example, is not done. We've completed the work in technology for solar panels, battery storage, but there's still work to be done in terms of permitting to make it even faster,
cheaper to install, and removing the support for this vital industry in the state of Arizona could be catastrophic. Here's what I know about leadership. If you want to remain in a leadership position, you've got to get the obvious choices right. And I can promise you the response from Arizonans all over the state for backing down on our obvious commitment to renewable energy will not play well. So I'm asking you, for me, my my family,
my children, my friends, my relatives, all the people that call Arizona home and are proud of the opportunities that we're all creating together, I'm asking you to not repeal the renewable energy mandate. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for your time today. Okay. Next, we will take comments from Bob Widower, wiedower, w I e d o w e r. You guys can just spell my name. I was gonna go Bob, b o b. Good morning. Hey, good morning. Thank you for the opportunity to to speak here.
Kinda hard to to see around the, the poll here, but earlier this morning, we were given the opportunity to hear why the Commission wanted to repeal this and there was a number of specifics given and which I really appreciate, but one of the general comments that has been made about this is that why should we continue with an rather arbitrarily established requirement when the free market should be able to dictate prices. And that's
a very appropriate comment for a fiscally conservative for most things. Utilities are not most things. Utilities, for all intents and purposes, are monopolies and I can't choose the power company that I use nor can I negotiate with them what price that I pay or what services I get for a certain amount of money like you can with most other things? And we, as consumers, allow that to happen and we accept that because of one thing and one thing only, and that's this commission.
We rely, we expect the commission to provide to us the cheapest form of power possible while still maintaining an appropriate return for the utility companies for their efforts. So let's talk about some facts. The fact is that wind and solar, combined with a robust battery storage system is the cheapest form of power. Combined with that, it's the only one that's clean, it's the only one that's inexhaustible, and it's the only one that can expand with our ever increasing power needs with
especially with AI and things like that. So from a financial standpoint, we as consumers expect the commission to give us the cheapest form of power. So I'm here to to say 15% is, I I would argue that 25, 35, 50% re requirement for renewable power would be appropriate. We're not here to to increase anything. We're just here to to talk about the re repeal Of, that, the rest act. So I I firmly and strongly resist or or or think the commission should resist,
repealing that act because it is, again, like I said, the the the cleanest, the cheapest, and the most and, you know, can, expand as our needs expand. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for your time and your comments today. Okay. We have had a caller join us on the the phone, so we will turn there. Melissa Ramos, r a m o s. You can go ahead and unmute yourself by pressing 6 and provide us your comments today. You are unmuted now. You can go ahead. Oh, thank you. Good morning, members of the commission. My name is Melissa Ramos.
I'm the senior manager of clean air advocacy for the American Lung Association in Arizona. As a trusted and leading health organization, we advocate for policies that reduce harmful air pollution and protect lung health. We strongly oppose the repeal of the renewable energy standard, Tara. The rest rule has been instrumental in improving air quality and encouraged Arizona utilities to consider pollution free energy resources such as wind and solar for decades. With 84% of Arizona residents living with unhealthy air, Arizona utilities need to do more, not less,
to set us on track for healthier air. The Long Association released a public opinion of a public opinion poll that found 77 of Arizonans are supportive of clean energy. Majority of Arizona voters believe that clean energy will improve air quality, create quality jobs, and strengthen the economy. We're we are submitting a letter on behalf of several health organizations and health professionals in Arizona that strongly oppose the repeal of this rule. We urge the Arizona Corporation Commission to listen to the public and support policies that promote clean energy. Please vote no on the repeal of the rest rule.
We can secure a strong clean energy future without sacrificing the health of Arizonans. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for your time today. Okay. Next, we will take comments from Gretchen Reinhardt, r e I n h a r d t. Thank you. I'm here on my my own behalf, to support updating and retaining the renewable energy standards and energy efficiency rules. It's my understanding that the Arizona Corporation Commission's role is to stand up for the
public interest for us as consumers, that they should be concerned with cost and also with health and safety. The affordable, reliable, and clean all speak to those important things. Just as the American Lung Association, points out the importance of our air quality and these rules to ensuring that. And the Arizona Tech Council points out that, that it's a benefit to our economy as a whole. I, want to echo the importance of climate
and that we need to be looking into the future, and it's a different future, with our heat being our big challenge here in Arizona. We need a new vision for safety of Arizonans. And in particular, I want to raise up our, most vulnerable populations and how heat, impacts those communities, whether that's our children, our seniors, those who have, health challenges and the additional sensitivities, and even the aging ability to age in place.
I find, more and more people deciding they need to move, from Arizona and as I approach that third stage of life, I too am looking at the impacts of heat. These are things that the corporation commission needs to take into consideration when we're considering the public and what's in our best interest. And finally as a critical part of that, it's my understanding that these rules have actually supported our most vulnerable communities through some
of the programs when an air conditioner goes out. Where does that funding come from in partnership with the utilities to replace old air conditioners when there is no money in the household to cover those kinds of major expenses. We really need to understand the impacts on that part of our community as well. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Okay. I have my last speaker slip. It is from Linda Stenholm, s t e n h o l m.
If you would still like to speak, it's not too late. Just fill out a speaker slip. And when miss Stenholm is done speaking, you can come forward. Thank you, everyone, for your time. I represent myself primarily, but I also work with a lot of interfaith groups who really care about, all people in the state. I, we work with both Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, wide range of people who believe in caretaking of our Earth. I am standing here to support or,
to fight against or to talk against the repeal of the rest, regulations. I am, I live on a fixed low income, and we have a small house. Only minimal upgrades in the last thirty years since I've lived there have we've been able to afford. So one of the ones we have most recently chosen, because of cost going down and because of how powerful our Arizona sun is and because of how the did I say cost going down? Because of just the fact that there was so much sun here,
we did invest in solar just recently, and the costs have been tremendous compared to what they used to be. My I think I kinda said it. I'm concerned about the fossil fuels as well, and the fact that they are extremely inefficient and owned by a lot of corporate entities. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time and your comments today. Okay. Anyone else who would like to speak, please come forward. You can hand me your speaker slip. Thank you. Okay. And Hi, Riz. Okay. So next comment's from Riz Ruiz,
r u I z. Okay. Go ahead. Thank you. Okay. So first of all, I left my notes, back at my chair, so we are winging this. My name is Rich Ruiz. I'm here on behalf of my friends who, god bless their souls, are probably still asleep, assuming they went to sleep. A little bit of low hanging fruit here. The because standards have been met, being, an argument that we should repeal the standards is kind of like, you know, imagine murder rates drop to zero.
We're not gonna get rid of the rule that we shouldn't murder. So that's just one I wanted to cross off there. The next point I wanna make is in reference to an article that was published in Capital Times written by commissioner Thompson a couple weeks ago. In this article, he used a phrase. He said climate activists are fear mongering, and they're creating a sense of doom and gloom. And but don't, like, quote me on that. It wasn't verbatim. But I thought that was really interesting because I I talk about doom and gloom as it relates to climate,
like, every single day of my life, because I'm affected by every single day of my life. You know? I'm an activist for a career. It's my job. But one thing about the doom and gloom that comes from climate change, eco grief, solid nostalgia, eco anxiety, whatever you wanna call it, it's not just for activists or or people who are impacted by poor air quality. Even the CEOs of the largest mining companies feel some sense of eco grief because to acknowledge climate change is to completely change the way we operate.
So from what I gathered from that article, commissioner Thompson has acknowledged that his people are scared and asking for help. And in terms of fear mongering, you know, a couple of my ex boyfriends have taught me this. Exaggerating and lying are different. And like my therapist after said ex boyfriends taught me, no one can make you feel something that you do not already feel. So fear mongering isn't me running to you saying this is something you need to be scared of. Fear mongering is me capitalizing on something you are already scared of.
Arizonans are already scared. This sets the standard. If we get rid of renewable energy, we are announcing to the world that clean energy is not Arizona's goals, and I would rather be known for clean energy than having Arizona state frat boys. Thank you. And last point I wanna make, which really should the other point. Whatever. I'm tired. I'm sorry. Thank you. It's a point I have been proving since the moment I walked in here. I don't know if you heard someone who went in hollering back there, but that was me and then people started clapping. That's because we are sheep. We follow,
respectfully. We follow each other. When someone does something cool, it creates permission for us to do something cool. I don't believe that utility companies will uphold renewable goals. APS has already proved it. And last point, for real this time, if the goal of repealing it is to lower rates for consumers, I wish I wish the ACC would be a little more forthcoming about the other things that are causing rate increases. Like, the rate hikes that keep getting approved. I would rather my money go towards,
benefiting my neighbors than it would to another high earning company. Thank you. Thank you for your time. And if you do have written comments, we encourage you to file those in the docket. Thank you. Okay. And our last comments from Alondra Morales Sanchez, s a n c h e z. Okay. Hello, your honor. My name is Alondra Morales Sanchez. I'm here with AZA and HPI Advocates, Arizona Asian American
Pacific Islanders Advocates. And I rough I join the roughly 29,000 Arizonans who are urging the commission to stop the repeal of the renewable energy standard and tariff, which is insane. That is a lot of comments. I you know, rest was passed in 2006. I mean, I'm sure you know, with the bipartisan support. And since then, it has delivered enormous benefits to Arizona. According to a 2020 report, Rez has generated roughly 2,000,000,000
in benefits for customers of APS and Tucson Electric Power. So that is that is a lot of money. Spurred nearly 12,000,000,000 in solar industry investments, and it cut climate pollution and saved water. Over 7,000 acres of feet annually, enough to serve nearly 44,000 Arizonans each year. That is a lot of people. So I ask, why would we want to reverse that progress? Why would the commission choose to kill Arizona jobs and investment at a time when
we should be expanding them? Clean energy is the future, and rest is a key stepping stone towards strengthening our energy grid, reducing cost, and building a more resilient state. We are living in a pivotal moment. I am 27 years old, and I have, let's say, forty, fifty years, to live here in this state if it's not too hot to live here by then. And, again, the impacts of climate climate change and global warming, we're already seeing them from the record breaking heat to the worsening air quality and
the declining water supply. Rolling back the heat sorry. Rolling back rest moves Arizona backwards when every signal economic, environmental, and public health says we says we should move forward. So let's talk about what's at stake. One, affordability. Renewable energy is now among the most cost efficient energy sources available. Repealing rest risks higher cost for families and businesses in the long run. Two, pollution and health. A December 2023 American Lung Association poll found that 83% of,
of Arizona voters believe air pollution is a serious problem, and 70% believe policymakers and and regulators must do more to combat climate pollution. The repeal does the opposite. Three third. Three, water. Renewable technologies, as you heard, use a fraction of the water that fossil fuels require. In a state where every drop counts, that matters. And fourth, business and innovation. Clean energy drives innovation, investment, and high quality jobs. Repealing rest would send a chilling message to companies who see Arizona as a hub
for renewable leadership. Arizonans overwhelmingly support clean energy because it means clean air, clean water, good jobs, and a stronger economy. I urge the commission, don't take a step back. Protect and strengthen the new renewable energy standard and tariff. Let's keep Arizona moving towards a cleaner, more resilient, and more affordable energy future. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your time and your comments today. Alright. Anyone that we missed? Nope? Okay. And there's no one else on the phone who was called in to provide public
comment today. Would staff like to make any closing remarks? I would just like to thank everybody for coming out today and providing your comments expressing your views. We appreciate it. Thank you. Alright. And I echo that. Thank you to everyone who has come today and taken the time to provide comments. We do really appreciate and appreciate your participation. Alright. So the next step in this rule making process will be for staff to file by 12/15/2025 a summary of all written and oral comments concerning the notice of proposed rule making received between 08/19/2025 and November 14.
Along with staff's responses to those comments as well as a final economic small business and consumer impact statement or a memo explaining why no revision to the economic impact statement dated 07/15/2025 is needed. The hearing division will then review the record and issue a recommended opinion in order for the commission's consideration at an open meeting. The commission will determine whether and in what manner the rulemaking should go forward. Alright. Anything else that needs to be addressed from staff?
No, your honor. Okay. With that, we will adjourn. Thank you everyone for your participation today, and this oral proceeding is adjourned. Any questions for us, Michelle? No, Diana. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.