With that, we're going to get started. Let's go on the record. Good morning. This is the time set for the public comment and evidentiary hearing in the matter of the application of the Arizona Department of Transportation or or ADOT, for approval to install a new grade separated crossing over the tracks of the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad at Rail Mile 0132.38 as part of roadway extensions to The United States Highway 93 or US 93.
This is jocket number RRDash02635BDash26Dash0028. My name is Donna Sansone, and I am the administrative law judge assigned to preside over this matter in today's hearing. Now I'm going to start by taking appearances. As previously noted before we got started, we do not have a court reporter present today. So when we take appearances, if you wouldn't mind spelling, any less common first names,
but specifically last names, so that the court reporter has a record of that. So I'm going to start with the applicant, Adot. Good morning, your honor. Nicole Morgan, m o r g a n, the Arizona Attorney General's Office. And, also, I have with me my ADOT representative, Sayed Hayed, s a y e e d, is the first name. Hani, h a n I, is the last name. Thank you so much. And for the respondent, BSN BNSF Railway,
I believe, mister Cox, are you here on behalf of the railroad, or are you here on behalf of staff? He's here on behalf of staff, your honor. So it appears the railroad has not appeared today. They had filed a notice of appearance, but it looks like they will not be joining us at this time. So let's move on to staff then. Good morning, your honor. Ben Cailleros here on behalf of, the commission, office of general counsel. My last name is spelled c a l l e r o s.
And with me on Webex is safety division, from safety division is mister Jeffrey Cox. Last name, c o x. Alright. Thank you. Now, I was just told by, our tech assistant, that the Webex link for today's hearing was not sent to the railroad by mistake. No. So that explains, the absence. So I think, while our tech support is, getting that link over, we're gonna take a brief recess, so that we can get him on the line, and then we'll proceed from there. Alright. It appears that we have mister Thorpe on the line with us now.
Mister Thorpe, can you hear me? Yes. I can. Thank you. Alright. Bill Thorpe on behalf of BNSF Railway Company. I'm still waiting for Rayford Nichols of BNSF, and I know he's trying to get on. Okay. Alright. So we'll, continue our recess then. We're in recess right now to ensure that, that, mister Nichols can join us. So And I'll reach out to him again to make sure. Thank you. Alright. Thank you so much. Yes. I can. Alright. It appears that we now have a call in user one. Mister Thorpe, would that be your witness?
Yes. I understand he's calling in. Okay. And that would for Nichols of the NSF. Right. And, mister Nichols, can you hear us? Can you hear me? Mister Nichols? I can hear you. Alright. Excellent. Now that we have everyone on the line, let's go back on the record. At this time, just so mister Thorpe and his witness are aware, I did, already open the hearing. Just provide, you know, the, what the matter is about, the docket number, and then my name. My name is Donna Sansone, and I'm the administrative law judge, though the bench may say, I believe,
Elizabeth Beatty. I think that's from a prior hearing. We've already taken the appearances of the applicant and for staff, staff, but it does appear that we have an extra individual in the hearing room. So I'll have miss Morgan, briefly go on the record and or, state the appearance of our additional participant, and then we will move on to the respondent and have them, note their appearance. Thank you, your honor. Also, Isaac Gilbert of the Arizona attorney general's office is present. Alright. Thank you. Now, mister Thorpe, just so you are aware, we do not have a court reporter with us today.
We were unable to secure one. We do have these proceedings being recorded right now. They will transcribe after the fact from the recording. So when you are, noting your appearance and the appearance of your witness, if you wouldn't mind spelling any less common first names and then spelling your last name for the record, it would be appreciated. Go ahead, mister Thorpe. My name is William Thorpe, t h o r p e, representing D and SF Railway. Also with me is Rafer, r a f e r, Nichol, n I c h o l f, of BNSF Railway.
Alright. Thank you so much. Now, before we proceed, it seems that we've already had a few procedural issues come up, but I do have a couple of guidelines, to make sure that our hearing from this point forward goes smoothly, primarily for those on Webex. In general, for those that are testifying today, I ask that you please speak clearly and slowly. This is especially important, without a court reporter present. We wanna make sure that that recording that we get, is as clear as possible. When testifying, please wait for the attorney to finish asking their question before you answer.
And if at any point you hear an attorney make an objection, I ask that you please stop speaking until that is resolved. For those appearing via Webex, I ask that you please keep your microphones muted at all times when you are not speaking. And then additionally, if possible, please keep your camera close enough, just in case the court reporter maybe can't hear it, in the recording, but, ultimately, wants to make sure that they transcribe correctly. Now in general, regardless of whether you're on Webex or in person with me today, I ask that you please make sure that you don't talk over anyone else.
And then finally, I want to ask that all witnesses and counsel please minimize their use of acronyms during this hearing to ensure that we have a clear record and to minimize confusion. Obviously, the use of some acronyms, like for a dot b n s f is appropriate, but, if we could limit it to things of that nature. Now before we move on to public comment, I want to ask the parties, do they have any procedural issues at this time that need to be addressed starting with ADOT? No, your honor. And for BNSF? Mister Thorpe,
it appears you are muted. Let me see if I can there. I'm sorry. Did you get my comment that you have staff has? I I did not. Okay. And, for staff? No, your honor. Alright. In that case, we will move on to public comment. This is the time for any member of the public present to provide comments. At this time, are there any members of the public who would like to provide comment today? I do not see any present in the hearing room, and there do not appear to be any call in, speakers. So let the record reflect that no one has indicated a desire to speak.
In that case, we'll go ahead and move on to opening statements. We'll start with ADOT. Miss Morgan, would you like to make an opening statement at this time? No, your honor. I like to waive opening statement. And, mister Thorpe, it looks like you are back on mute. I I think you toggled it just there. Go ahead, mister Thorpe. And we're back on mute. Go ahead, mister Thorpe. Would you like to make an opening statement at this time? Mister Thorpe, are you able to hear me okay? It looks like we just have you on mute, so we're not able to hear you. I can see you speaking, but I'm not able to hear you for whatever reason.
It looks like If I may, I believe. There we go. There we go. Okay. Can you hear me now, your honor? Yes. I can. Thank you. Okay. I'm sorry. And do you have any opening statement you would like to make at this time? No. No. We do not, your honor. Thank you. Alright. Thank you. And mister Calleros? No opening statement, your honor. Alright. In that case, let's move on to the presentation of witness as an evidence. We're gonna start with the applicant ADOT. Miss Morgan, please call your first witness. Yes. I called Saeed Haneed to the stand. And, miss Haneed, you can come up either to the witness stand or you're welcome to testify from
there. It may be easier because there's a microphone up here. Alright. As we have no court reporter today, I will be doing the swearing in. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Alright. Thank you. And now, miss Morgan, you may proceed with your questions. Thank you, your honor. For a sec. Can you please state your name and your role at ADOT? Sayeed Hani, s a y e e d. Last name, h a n I, Hani. The state liaison for ADOT. K. And are you with the application that is the subject of today's hearing?
Yes. I am. Okay. Were you involved in the preparation or reviewing of this application? Yes. I am. I actually prepared the application and submitted to ACC. Thank you, your honor. I move to have ADOT's application dated 02/03/2026 marked as exhibit one. Alright. And did the, did ADOT provide copies of the exhibit before the hearing? I didn't see that ADOT had submitted anything. Our only exhibit is the application. Okay. Alright. It's not filed. Okay. It it didn't I mean, it's on file, technically, within the docket,
but, it wasn't formally filed according to the procedural order. So you do intend at this time to admit the application as was uploaded, to the docket. Is that correct? Yes, ma'am. Alright. Neither of the parties, were technically made aware of this, so I wanna speak with them first. Mister Thorpe, do you have any issue with us admitting, the application and consideration as evidence today? No. Objection. No. Okay. And I am gonna actually mark that, as exhibit a one for the purposes of today's hearing. That's typically how we mark those exhibits.
And then, I'll ask mister Calleros the same question. All of us have had the opportunity to see the application. Staff has reviewed it, but I wanna make sure for the purposes of today's hearing, there's no issue or objection with admitting that application as exhibit a one. No objection, your honor. Alright. With no objection, exhibit a one is hereby admitted. Thank you, your honor. Can you please tell us what type of construction project is ADOT seeking approval to build today? ADOT is trying to install a, bridge over the railroad, right away,
on US 93 near Milepost One 0132 Dot 380. That's a railroad Milepost. Okay. And, can you tell us where the construction project will be located? The construction, project is, in the Wickenburg area of, US 93. It's, exact location is from Milepost, 189Dot9. That's a highway milepost to 193Dot 0. It's approximately six mile of roadway construction, and the bridge is part of it.
Okay. And the bridge is actually on Highway Mile Post 192.9. And can you please describe the scope of the construction project? Okay. So the construction is, building, a a sound southbound leg of the highway, right, about 70 feet away from the existing bridge over BNSF. So we're building another bridge just to separate. Right now, as current condition, we have northbound, south southbound on the same bridge. So we're taking the southbound traffic off of the existing bridge,
putting on a new bridge once it's completed. Does ADOT anticipate any traffic delays due to this construction project? There shouldn't be any traffic delay because we're building the bridge offline. Once it's completed, we're gonna switch the traffic, and it's gonna be much better than what we have. Okay. And how is this construction project being funded? It is, funded by Federal Highway for 101,000,005, and by the state, about 16,000,000. And there's a private fund involved.
It's about 9,300,000. And total, project fund is 126,900,000. Okay. And what is the estimated, construction project duration? So we estimated sixteen months. It's an engineering estimate. And, the construction will start September 2026, which is this year, and will complete anticipation completion date of 2028. Just for the record, can, can you repeat that, slower in terms of the estimated, construction Okay.
To begin if approved? Okay. So estimated day to for the construction to start is September 2026 of Okay. JERIS. And then when does ADOT anticipate the completion of this project? We are anticipating to complete this project as on January 2028. K. And once this construction, project is completed, who will be responsible for this construction and maintenance? ADOT is responsible for the construction maintenance of that bridge and the roadway. Okay. Does ADOT consider this construction project to be necessary for public safety?
It is a necessary project because, existing condition we have on that bridge, and we have more traffic than that bridge can handle. So we're basically creating another bridge to put the southbound traffic complete on a separate bridge. And so it gets rid of congestion and and improve the safety condition of the road as well. Okay. Thank you. I'd like to turn your attention to the staff memorandum. Are you familiar with the staff memorandum dated 02/13/2026 regarding this application? Yes. Okay. And did you have a chance to read the staff memorandum?
Yes, ma'am. Do you have any disagreements with the staff memorandum? Okay. Thank you so much. I have no further questions. Alright. Thank you. Mister Thorpe, do you have any cross for this witness? Nothing, your honor. Thank you. Alright. Mister Calleros? No. I think my questions are answered. Thank you. Alright. Mister Honey, I do have just a couple of questions, left. It appears your attorney got most of my questions, though. Sure. Now, I will premise this question by saying, I had only seen marked, or proposed exhibit s one as potentially the only exhibit that was going to be
offered today. So this question is with that in mind, in the staff report, which is proposed exhibit s one in the section related to train data. So that would be the bottom of the first page of the official staff report, not the memorandum. Staff indicates, quote, no current train data is available through the Federal Railroad Administration or FRA FRA inventory. From my recollection, ADOT, did provide, some information about, crossings. I'm assuming existing crossing of The US 93. I believe that that information from was from 2011,
though, and it was possibly '7 or eight crossings daily in terms of freight trains, something to that effect. But I wanna ask, is ADOT aware of approximately how many train crossings occur in this area on a daily basis, present day, most likely the, existing crossing. Do you have an estimate? Your honor, we we're using the the number we have on file from 2011, which is eight freight train per day, and VNSF can update that to the phone number if they have the number. Alright. Perfect. And then,
your attorney already asked about who will be responsible for the construction of the crossing, the new crossing, the maintenance of the crossing. And they also, in the staff report and in the application, there was a mention that there's not going to be any road closures because this is a new, overpass and the existing infrastructure will be used. But though there's no anticipated road closures, does ADOT anticipate that construction of the new overpass will have any impact on the railroad's operations at the crossing at any point, such as potential closures,
freight train delays, anything of that nature? We we do have a plan for that. You know, we coordinated with, BNSF and got their opinion. We'll have, flaggers, railroad flaggers, inspectors to monitor the construction, closely and make sure so there's no delay, train operation. Alright. Thank you. We've previously discussed that the total cost of this project is a $126,900,000. That was the amount provided by ADOT. Is this amount an estimate for the entirety of that six mile US 93 roadway extensions, or does ADOT have an estimate of specifically what this new overpass or this new
crossing is going to cost? Your honor, it's one project, so that's for the entire project. Okay. Thank you. And it could increase, so that's currently what we have. Okay. And then, as mentioned, ADOT is going to be responsible for the construction and maintenance of the new crossing. And I wanna note that the staff report mentions that the railroad will be responsible for maintaining its own, infrastructure. However, I didn't see anything in the record about whether a construction and maintenance agreement has been formally entered into by ADOT and the railroad. So I just wanted to get a status update on where the parties are in
the process of a Your honor, we we have a a draft agreement in the process. It's at present time, it's getting reviewed by PNSF legal team. We had some minor changes because of the administration change. You know, there was some minor change on the ARS code. So that's the only changes we made. So, technically, when you change some things or you change the document, then the attorney needs to look at it. So that's where it is. Okay. Freddie Mac, the rest of it is, you know, standard agreement we use all the time.
Okay. And and once it's executed, I usually file a copy on the doc. Okay. So the plan is once the parties have finalized that agreement, they will, upload it so staff can review. Is that correct? Yes. I will upload it, so ADOT will do that. Okay. And then, my final question is in the staff report, staff indicated that ADOT, the railroad, and staff have reviewed the proposed project and are all in agreement to the proposed construction. I wanna ask aside from the parties in this case, has anyone else expressed support for this project such as residents,
nearby towns, or cities? Or is it, just the parties involved in this case thus far? Far? I I think, generally, when we do a project, we get a lot of input for them from the citizens, the drivers in the world, you know, and other entities in in that vicinity which they live at. So, basically, their request and their push makes us to create a new project and if they have any safety concern. Okay. So I believe there are people, but I don't have, you know, a specific name to to mention for the records.
Okay. Thank you so much. I believe those are all of my questions. Miss Morgan, do you have any redirect? No, your honor. Any questions from, any last minute questions from BNSF? No, your honor. Thank you. And staff? No, your honor. Alright. I believe we are done with this witness. You can go ahead and step down. K. Miss Morgan, does Adot have any other witnesses at this time? No, your honor. That includes our presentation. Alright. Perfect. Thank you. In that case, mister Thorpe, does the railroad intend to offer any witness testimony today? We do not,
your honor. Okay. Alright. In that case, we can move right along to staff. Mister Cailleros, if you want to go ahead and call your first witness. Yes, your honor. I'll call mister Jeffrey Cox from the commission safety division. Go ahead. Mister Cox, I will be doing the swearing in. So if, you wouldn't mind responding, do do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Alright. Go ahead, mister Cayer Cayeros. Good morning. Could you please state your name for the record? It's Jeffrey, j e f f r e y. Last name Cox, c o x.
Thank you. And where are you employed? I'm employed with the Arizona Corporation Commission. And what is your position at the commission? Senior grade crossing inspector. Were you assigned to work on the application that we're here for today? Yes. I was. And what did your work on the case consist of? Consisted of, application review, and coming preparing the staff memo, for file and, coming to the conclusion for the proposed application. And do you have that copy of the staff memo or the staff report, marked proposed exhibit s one in front of you?
I do. And you prepared that staff report? I do. I already had that prepared. Yeah. Yeah. And do you have any corrections to make to it? I do not. Do you adopt the report as part of your sworn sworn testimony today? Yes. I do. And we'll move for admission of exhibit s one, your honor. Any objection from ADOT? No, your honor. From BNSF? No, your honor. Alright. Exhibit s one is hereby admitted. Thank you. Mister Cox, do you believe that the planned grade crossing is needed to enhance public safety?
Yes. I do. And do you believe it is in the public interest that this application be approved? Yes. I do. And does staff continue to support this project? Yes. I do. Alright. Your honor, that is all I have for a direct. Alright. Thank you. Any questions from, any cross from ABOT at this time? No, your honor. Any questions from you, mister Thorpe? No, your honor. Alright. I have just a couple of questions, mister Cox. Let me just make sure that I mark off off quickly the questions your attorney already,
hit. Alright. Now, ADOT has confirmed that it anticipates that construction will begin in September 2026 and will be done in January 2028, so a period of approximately sixteen months. Does staff have any reservations or concerns about the proposed construction staff have any specific recommendations regarding a deadline for the completion of construction? I do not. Okay. Now I'm gonna ask you to elaborate a little bit on some of the questions that your attorney may have already or staff's attorney may have already asked and some
information that's in the staff report. Specifically, in the staff report, staff indicates that it believes the proposed project, specifically the, quote, modified grade separation, end quote, is in the public interest. Mister Cox, can you please plea briefly provide an explanation as to why staff believes this proposed project is in the public interest? Grade separation eliminates, at grade crossings, which is inherently more, enhanced safety than, just pulling up the lights and gates that allows the flow of traffic, to continue.
And therefore, I would continue to support the conclusion for the Great Crossing separation. Thank you. Now staff also found that the proposed project is, quote, reasonable and consistent with other similar crossings in the state. Can you briefly elaborate on how staff came to this conclusion? Well, the existence of the, current grade separation, is same and similar to what is being proposed and to be built here. Therefore, I came to that conclusion this was in best interest. Thank you. And, I believe that at this time, staff has not been provided with a construction maintenance agreement according to,
the testimony that we just heard. Does staff have any concerns related to not having had an opportunity to review a construction and maintenance agreement prior to a, potential, approval of the next, couple months prior to construction. Okay. Alright. And then, is there any additional documentation that staff would like to have filed aside from that construction maintenance agreement? Obviously, that's before construction, but specifically before, this this application is approved. No, your honor. Alright. I believe those are all my questions.
Mister Cailleros, any redirect? No, your honor. Thank you. Miss Morgan, any final cross? No, your honor. Mister Thorpe, any final cross from the railroad? No, your honor. Mister Calleros, does staff have any more witnesses? No further witnesses, your honor. Alright. Thank you. In that case, we will move on to closing statements. I'm gonna begin with ADOT. Miss Morgan, would you like to make a closing statement at this time? No, your honor. We waive closing statement. And, mister Thorpe, would the railroad like to make any closing statements? No, your honor. Thank you. And, mister Calleros, does staff have any closing?
No, your honor. Thank you. Alright. To confirm, we have already admitted exhibits a one and s one into the record. I believe that those are all of the exhibits for today. I wanna just double check with the railroad that they did not submit anything else that I'm using. Correct. Okay. Alright. Is there anything else that we need to address before we adjourn? I'll start with miss Morgan. No, your honor. And mister Thorpe? No, your honor. And mister Cayeros? No, your honor. Thank you. In that case, I wanna thank you all for your participation today.
This matter will be taken under advisement, and a recommended opinion and order will be issued for the commission's consideration at a future open meeting. This hearing is adjourned. Thank you all. Thank you.