Good morning, everyone. I am administrative law judge Julia Mater. I have been assigned to preside over this matter. And we have a Spanish language interpreter with us today who will be translating my introductory and closing remarks and the comments of any Spanish speaking members of the public. And this is an oral proceeding being held for the proposed rulemaking in docket number RE00000ADash24Dash0026 in the matter of proposed modifications to the renewable energy standard and tariff rules
title 14 chapter two article 18. And the proposal is to repeal the rules, entirely. The notice of rulemaking docket opening and notice of proposed rule making for this matter were published in the Arizona administrative register on 10/03/2025. In addition to this oral proceeding, a telephonic only oral proceeding will be held this Wednesday, November 12, beginning at 5PM, and again on Thursday, November 13, beginning at 10AM in person at the commission's offices in Phoenix or
telephonically. This oral proceeding is being held as provided under Arizona revised statute section 41 dash ten twenty three to allow adequate discussion of the substance and form of the rule proposed proposal and to allow persons to ask questions and present oral argument, data, and views on the proposal. I will begin by asking staff to present information on the proposal and may ask questions of staff to clarify the record. I will then take public comment. If you are physically present and desire to speak,
please complete a speaker slip and bring it up to me. If you are on the phone, please tell the person who answers both your name and that you desire to speak. Alright. And staff, may I now have your appearance for the record? Yes, your honor. Eli Golub, staff attorney. Good morning. And have you prepared a statement of information regarding this rulemaking? Yes. Okay. You may go ahead and present it at this time. Good morning. It's Andrea Allen with Commission Staff. With this rulemaking, staff is recommending repeal of article 18 of Title 14, Chapter two of the Arizona Administrative Code as directed by the Commission.
Article 18 is the renewable energy standard and tariffs rules, which I will refer to as the rest rules. The Commission adopted the rest rules in decision number 69,127 and revised portions of the rules in decision number 74,882. The rest rules require electric, retail electric utilities or affected utilities to obtain a portion of the utility's annual retail energy sales from eligible renewable energy resources, including distributed renewable energy resources. The rest rules do not apply to distribution companies with more than half of its
customers located outside of Arizona. The rest rules were implemented to increase energy diversity and incentivize the adoption of renewable energy by electric utilities and their customers. In addition, the rest rules were intended to ensure the overall cost and rates charged for electric service over the long term were just and reasonable that electric utility service to Arizona ratepayers was adequate and reliable and to the extent possible, minimize the overall adverse environmental impacts resulting from electric utility service. Among other things,
the rest rules require affected utilities to, on an annual basis, obtain a certain percent of retail electric sales from eligible renewable energy resources, with a percent of the annual requirement coming from distributed renewable energy resources file an annual implementation plan for commission approval detailing how the utility intends to comply with the rest rules during the following calendar year and file an annual compliance report describing utilities' compliance with the requirements of the rest rules for the previous calendar year.
The rest rules also detail the treatment of renewable energy credits, or RECs, in meeting compliance with the rules. For an electric distribution cooperative that is subject to the rules, the cooperative is required to submit, for commission approval, an appropriate plan for obtaining retail energy sales from renewable resources in lieu of meeting the annual requirement. The retail electric utilities subject to the rest rules are APS, TEP, UNSC, Ajo Improvement Company, Muncie Water and Electric, Duncan Valley Electric Cooperative, Graham County Electric Cooperative,
Mojave Electric Cooperative, Navapatri Electric Cooperative, Sulphur Springs Valley Electric Cooperative and Trico Electric Cooperative. Based on the annual rest compliance reports filed with the Commission, the three largest regulated utilities subject to the rules, APS, TEP and UNSC, have either met or exceeded the annual renewable energy requirement detailed in the rules for the most recent three years reported 2022, 2023 and 2024. The annual renewable energy requirement was 12%, 1314% respectively.
The Commission has issued decisions granting waivers of various portions of the rest rules for affected utilities. For example, in recent years, the Commission has ordered that many affected utilities eliminate or significantly reduce the level of the rest surcharge collected by utilities customers and the incentives paid to customers participating in commission approved rest programs. For APS, TP and UNSC, since the inception of the rules, almost $2,600,000,000 has been spent implementing commission approved fresh programs in compliance with the rules.
In addition, APS, TP and UNSC have spent over $779,000,000 in incentives paid to customers who have participated in commission approved rest programs. The commission recognized that the incentives paid to participating customers were paid with funds collected by all customers through commission approved participating customers were paid with funds collected by all customers through commission approved surcharges, regardless of participation, and voted to eliminate these incentive payments. However, utilities continue to be obligated to pay production based incentives in prior contractual agreements, such as purchase power agreements that have 10% of the contractual agreements such as purchase power agreements that have ten to twenty years before reaching full payout for eligible renewable technologies.
Since the inception of the rules, surcharges have been approved to help fund rest programs implemented by affected utilities in order to comply with the rules. APS, TP, and UNSC have collected over 2,300,000,000 in rest surcharges from all customer classes. The surcharges collected have been used to administer commission approved rest programs and pay incentives to customers participating in available programs. For APS, the current commission approved budget is approximately $86,200,000 For TEP, the current surcharge is $1.89
per KWH with a monthly cap of $10.37 and a monthly average residential bill impact of $8.44 The current commission approved rest budget is approximately $65,900,000 For UNSC, the current surcharge is $1.23 per KWH with a monthly cap of $5.6 and a monthly average residential bill impact of $4.77 The current commission approved budget is approximately $9,300,000 The repeal of the rules will not eliminate any commission approved surcharges unless a superseding
commission decision in either a rate case proceeding or separate rest filing is issued. Staff believes that repeal of the rest rules as directed by the commission will have no impact on existing commission approved programs offered by affected utilities. Electric utilities will continue to have the ability to file for approval of modifications to existing rest programs or new programs as part of a rate case proceeding or separate application. Staff will continue to evaluate any proposed modifications to existing programs or new programs. Because several affected utilities,
including APS, TEP, and UNSC, no longer offer incentive to two participating customers, they therefore do not receive RECs in exchange for energy produced by interconnected DG systems. The RECs were used by utilities to demonstrate compliance with the rest rules. The commission has granted waivers to various affected utilities from using RECs to demonstrate compliance with the rules. Although REX will no longer be required for compliance purposes, they will continue to have value on the market for electric utilities. For example, if a utility is able to sell REX on the market,
those revenues could be used as an offset to the the rest surcharge or an offset to rates in general. Based on information provided by APSTP and UNSC, the evaluation of different resource types is primarily based on reliability, cost effectiveness, and affordability. Therefore, the repeal of the rest rule should not materially impact the utility's adoption of renewable resources. However, the utilities have indicated that any potential reductions in federal tax credits and or grants for renewable resources or battery storage could make these resources less economic and make them
less competitive compared to other resources. The revised EIS filed as Exhibit B to decision number 81,451 expanded on and provided additional and a more comprehensive analysis on the potential impacts and implications associated with the repeal of the rest rules. Staff recognizes that information related to APS's clean energy goal included in the revised EIS has changed since it was filed, as APS has updated its commitment to a carbon neutral goal. However, staff does not believe that the revised EIS filed has any bearing on staff's recommendations
to repeal the rules because the repeal of the restrooms was directed by the commission. A second revised revised EIS may be filed if necessary. The adoption of renewable energy technologies expanded in part due to incentives paid by participating customers through the rest surcharge and base rates, and the industry has become a stable market participant. The commission has recognized that the standards contained in the rules are no longer needed to sustain the expansion of the industry as the continued proliferation and adoption of renewable energy resources from all customer classes continues in Arizona.
Staff believes that the repeal of the rules will not eliminate electric utilities investment in renewable energy. Electric utilities will continue to be able to and are encouraged to invest in cost effective renewable energy resources that would benefit their systems and their customers. Staff will continue to be able to customers will continue to be able to install renewable energy resources should they choose to do so. Additionally, staff believes that the repeal of the rest rules will reduce regulatory burden by eliminating the requirement for affected utilities to design,
develop, and administer rest programs on an annual basis. Utilities will be able to continue to file for commission approval of rest programs as needed to benefit their customers. This will also help with staff's workload because staff would not be required to evaluate the annual filings, which can take several months for for final review. Further, any current reporting requirement in the rules included in the rest rules can be included in a specific commission order with the repeal of the rules. Finally, staff does not plan to provide oral responses to comments received at today's proceeding.
As required by decision number 81,451, staff intends to address the written and oral comments received concerning this rulemaking in its memo to be filed in the docket on December 15. Thank you. Thank you. Alright. I will now begin to take public comment. I may ask questions to clarify a speaker's position for the record, and it doesn't sound like staff intends to respond to comments, but if staff does want to respond, they will signal me accordingly. For each of you who has provided your name to speak, I will call on you by name and will spell out your last name.
When I call on you, if you're here in person, please step forward, to the table. If you are on the phone, please unmute yourself by pressing 6. Please confirm or correct the spelling of your name and provide the city or town where you live. If you are speaking on behalf of an organization, please identify the organization and your position with it. And please remember that each speaker is requested to limit their comments to three minutes. If you are reading from prepared remarks today, please pay extra attention to speaking slowly and pause occasionally.
We also would ask you to file your prepared comments with the commission. And if you are using the services of our translator today or interpreter today, please pause frequently so that the translation can be made. Alright. We'll go ahead and get started with Sandy Barr, b a h r. Please come forward to the table. Press the button on the microphone. Make sure the green light's on. Give it a second. Can you hear me okay? Yes. I can. Good morning, judge. Again, my name is Sandy Barr, and I am the director for Sierra Club's Grand Canyon chapter,
which is the Arizona chapter. And I use sheher pronouns. Sierra Club strongly opposes the commission's short sighted effort to repeal the renewable energy standard and tariff rules. These rules have helped to support significant development of clean, affordable energy sources like solar and wind, which are among the lowest cost power sources in Arizona. Deleting these rules is counterproductive to the Commission's constitutional mandate to ensure just and reasonable rates for Arizona rate payers.
The Renewable Energy Standard has been a huge success. Arizona utilities have steadily increased their share of renewable generation since 2007 when it went into effect. And between 2007 and 2020, the rest catalyzed nearly 12,000,000,000 in clean energy investment in Arizona And generated approximately 2,000,000,000 in public benefits. These benefits include avoided energy and generation capacity costs,
increased investment in Arizona businesses and jobs, technology cost reductions, water savings, something super critical for our communities, and reduced air pollution. The rest has supported growth in Arizona's renewable industry, stimulating job creation and market development. Deleting the renewable energy standard will send a harmful signal to the clean energy industry, discouraging investment, innovation, and job creation in Arizona. Instead of deleting the renewable energy standard,
the Arizona Corporation Commission should strengthen and update it. The ACC must do its job and require these monopoly utilities to do what is in the public's interests. As Arizona Public Services' abandonment of its clean energy commitments makes clear, we cannot count on monopoly utilities to keep their word and meet their voluntary commitments related to clean energy. Utilities need enforceable clean energy standards and targets set by the Commission because without those
standards, the utilities will not do what is in is best for rate payers. Arizona has plenty of sunshine. Solar power is an abundant and low cost resource. It requires no expensive pipeline and there are zero ongoing fuel cost. Instead of wasting money to keep running high cost coal plants or building new pipelines to ship in gas from out of state, we should be taking advantage of the incredible solar resource we already have here and
pushing our utilities to do better. One, thing I wanna add, 2025 was never meant as an expiration date with the renewable energy standard as some commissioners have inferred. We asked the commission to protect ratepayers, not utility investors. Protecting ratepayers is their job, not making sure utility investors have maximum profits, the commission should refrain from repealing the renewable energy standard. And again, instead, work to update and strengthen it.
And, we will be filing, written comments as well. Could I just say one procedural thing? Certainly. The notice for public comment was very confusing to people because it says public comment. But because the commission has started this policy of requiring people to sign up ahead of time for the open meetings, a number of people contacted me and said, am I gonna be able to speak? Because I don't see a way to sign up ahead of time. And so I think for the future, it would be good to clarify that somewhere in the notice,
because I think some people could have been discouraged from just showing up. So thank you, judge. Okay. Thank you for that. Thank you, miss Barr. Okay. Next, we will take comments from John Brand, b r a n d e. And, mister Brande, please also, let us know where you live. Good morning. Good morning. I live here in Tucson in the Foothills. My name is John Brandy. I would like to, applaud the statements that opened this session, which I thought were extraordinarily precise and clear minded,
and I hope you reread them and listen. And thank you for giving us the opportunity to be heard. My comments are very brief. It's my understanding that we elect the commission members to represent the citizens of the state of Arizona. And I think it is most appropriate to listen to the citizens rather than the utilities' corporate interests. There must be a common ground somewhere in there. Arizona is one of The United States' most appropriate environments and climates
for solar electric power generation. It seems most appropriate to expand the rest rules, to pressure utilities, to increase their solar power generation for that specific reason. And it seems most appropriate to think short, medium, and long term in regards to that issue. We listen to everything you do. We see every vote that's taken, and we notice it. And I request that you listen to we on behalf of other citizens of this
state and expand the rest rules to a much higher percentage of solar power generation. Thank you. Thank thank you, mister Brandy. We appreciate your time today. Okay. We're gonna go next to one of our callers on the phone. Mister Troy Horton, you can go ahead and, unmute yourself. The spelling we have for your last name, h o r t o n. Please correct your name if necessary, and let us know where you live. You can go ahead. Thank you, your honor. I live in the city of Buckeye, Arizona.
I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you and the Arizona Corporation Commission. As a constituent, I am asking you to realize that over 80% of Arizonians want action on climate change. It is critical that the Commission not only keep the renewable energy standard, but you should build on the success that it has created. This policy has lowered energy costs, created local jobs and reduced pollution for nearly twenty years.
Repealing it would increase the cost of living when so many people are struggling to make ends meet and feed their families. Solar is not only cheaper, faster to build and environmentally important, it allows us to get our electricity from the incredible sunshine resource that we have. Solar power is lowering electric rates, comes from a local source, creates local jobs and is a much safer source of electricity. Arizona deserves an affordable,
reliable and clean energy future. Please reject any attempt to repeal the renewable energy standard. Your constituents are begging you to think of future generations. I'm a grand great great grandfather. I have 16 great grandchildren and one great great granddaughter. They are not going to have a livable world if we don't change. We're already seeing what burning fossil fuels is doing to our state. We are having increasingly more pollution alerts, record high temperatures, lack of water,
heat deaths, fires and floods, which are starting to make our state unlivable. Will Arizona become a state consisting only of data centers and no people other than those that run them? We cannot afford to continue to burn fossil fuels. The methane that is released by gas production livable world. Arizona voters support strong clean air and climate change actions. The American Lung Association 2023 poll reports that 83% of Arizona respondents consider air pollution a serious problem,
while 80% expressed concern about climate change. Please do the right thing for the people of Arizona, not for corporations that are making record profits. Voters will be watching what you do and counting on you to do what is best for the citizens of our state. We will do everything we can to make sure they know what you do here today. I'm a member of Scientist Rebellion, Sierra Club Grand Canyon, and Third Act Arizona, and I thank you for, listening to me.
Thank you, mister Horton. We appreciate your time and your comments today. Thank you. Okay. Next, we will take comments from Joe Vaughn, v a u g h a n. Please come forward. Thank you, judge. I'm a resident of Tucson, mid living in Midtown Tucson. I am a retired atmospheric scientist who worked primarily in the field of air pollution, in a university setting. And, I'm here to speak principally to the reality of climate change. There's been a certain amount of denial of the reality and the significance of climate
change and of the human role in causing climate change through greenhouse gases. I, as a scientist, not a climate scientist, but as an atmospheric scientist, have been observing this controversy for years. And I would like to state my own opinion that the scientific consensus is firmly that climate change is occurring. It is going to be ongoing. It is, significantly human caused through our greenhouse gas emissions and, very timely and committed action is required to ensure
that we have the best chances, for a livable future for future generations. The rest standards, address in important way our responsibility to those generations by in in emphasizing a support for renewables. I think that is sound public policy, and I would, urge the retention or the strengthening of those standards, not the, rollback of them. Thank you very much. Thank you, mister Vaughn. Thank you for your time today. Next, we'll go with Vania Guevara,
g u e v a r a. Please come forward. Thank you. Perfectly pronounced. Thank you, judge. Hi. Good morning. My name is Vania Guevara. I live in Phoenix, Arizona, but I'm here on behalf of, our CHISPA our our members with CHISPA Arizona. We represent around 300 members who live across multiple counties, including Pima County, and we're focused on growing community voices, political power, and civic engagement for a cleaner future in Arizona. Thank you, judge, for taking the time to hear my comments, and I also wanna thank of, your proactiveness in making sure there was Spanish translation available.
I am gonna make my comments in English, but I know many of our members would have appreciated the ability to speak in their, home language. So I we are urging to please consider to, not repeal rest. My comments are mostly directed to staff, to beg, urge, and pray that all facts and information presented are taken into account and help represent us when the commission themselves continue to fail us and constantly choose to represent or side with utility companies. We don't care about the sustaining industry as it exists today, as you've heard in comments before us,
and if you look into research, you'll see that fossil fuels continue to cause health issues and is costing us more and more with our health, quality of life, and ability to financially survive. We have rate increases here rate increase hearings coming up next year at the same time that utility companies are turning back on their renewable energy goals, against their consumers. As mentioned, energy is getting more costly, and people are having to choose which necessity, food, rent, staying alive during Arizona summers, and this standard provides a solution.
The sun is very generous in Arizona. Renewable energy solar is an easy, cost effective solution that benefits our air and our quality of life. Corporation utility companies are also, as mentioned, rolling back their goals and at the same time as a public elected body and that does not pass the headline test. There's definitely a lot of trust issues among our membership with those who are supposed to be taking decisions into account on, our behalf. And I also wanna mention, I I really appreciate the previous comments, and I echo those comments about representing the future.
I myself would not be here doing public comment. I know it's my job, but it's still very scary. I fight for my nieces every single day, and I would love for them to live in the state they call home. And there are, health benefits that are, you know, taking have to take into consideration given the air quality and how hot and whether or not it will be habitable. We're just asking for the commission to look into staff recommendation, and I would hope that staff recommendation also includes alternatives into how and why, renewable energy standards are having solar make sense,
as I said, financially and, in terms of our quality of health. And I also would like to, echo Sierra Club's comments, and that's all I have for today. I plan on submitting something as well. Thank you for taking the time to listen to my comments. Thank you. Thank you for joining us today, and thank you for your time. Okay. We're gonna go back to the phone, and we'll take comments from Derek Espadas, e s p a d a s. Mister Espadas, you can go ahead with your comments and let us know where you live. Thank you very much. I am a resident of Tucson Arizona, and I wanted to comment on the rest repeal.
Rest has provided a stable framework for responsible growth, consumer choice, and energy reliability across our state. By encouraging local generation and innovation, these standards have allowed homeowners, small businesses, and utilities to work together towards a more modern and resilient energy system. Through diversification of energy sources, the RESS program has reduced stress on the grid during peak demand, supported price stability and promoted long term investment in Arizona's energy future. Repealing these rules could in Arizona's energy future. Repealing these rules could limit flexible energy options and weaken the competitive balance that has
benefited ratepayers and strengthened local economies. Maintaining and updating the rest of the rules in a forward looking way aligns with an Arizona first strategy, one that prioritizes reliability, innovation, and locally driven solutions. So I urge the commission to continue supporting policies that keep energy dollars in Arizona while fostering a secure, sustainable, and competitive electricity market. What I gleaned from staff comments was that the rest rules are inert. So there is no problem with just maintaining them for future use.
If they pose no issues, why repeal them? And I agree that there needs to be additional research into the alternatives, provided. It seems highly lopsided towards the energy company. And by continuing to provide power to the energy companies which exist as a monopoly, we destroy our free market system. We destroy the ability of consumers to have a say in in the market. TEP has already announced in their Securities and Exchange Commission eight k filing that they
propose shifting any savings but still shifting comp over $20,000,000 to consumers. Again, in the monopoly system, consumers have no say against that unless you maintain such standards within our system to provide for the free market economy where consumers have say in in their purchase. I will also echo the comments made by miss Barr that the announcements,
remain confusing. I was not aware that I would be allowed to speak today until I made the phone call in. So just just a notice for future meetings for communication with the community. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time. Thank you. We appreciate your time as well and your comments today. Thank you. Okay. Next, we will take comments from Bruce Plenk, p l e n k. Good morning, Judge Madder. Good morning. And I should say, since I don't think anybody else did, thank you for holding hearings in Tucson. It's a very rare occasion and whenever it happens,
as you can see, there's a reasonable turnout because people are very interested in what's happening with the commission and Tucson Electric Power. Having said that, I wanna echo the comments that others have made before me about the value of the rest rules and the importance of strengthening them moving into the future rather than repealing them. And, the reasons, have been set forth, but let me just tick them off again. The solar industry has grown vastly since 2007, and I've been a part of that at various times. Part of that,
obviously is just driven by consumer demand. But that demand is partly formed by the the roles and the actions of the corporation commission. Utilities basically will do things only when forced to. I don't believe the utilities are like the fairy godmother that will wave a magic wand and have things work out best for consumers. But I think the only way that they will do development and expansion of renewable energy. Excuse me. I think it's particularly important because of the role that Arizona plays nationally.
People look to Arizona when they think about solar energy. They don't look at Minnesota. They look at Arizona and they look at what Arizona is doing to encourage the development of solar, wind, geothermal, and other renewable resources. Repealing the rest rules will essentially put a big black mark over the state of Arizona. People will draw an x through the state of Arizona when looking to policy to enhance renewables nationally. Instead, the commission should move ahead, strengthen the rest rules,
and continue to have Arizona be in a position to be a leader. Now I think this is particularly important because the federal government under the current administration has turned its back on renewables and made it excessively difficult and more expensive to do anything involving renewables. So I think that puts even more of a burden on the states. In Arizona, I think that means a burden on the corporation commission to take reasonable policy, future thinking policy, climate related policy, and, those kinds of things all come down in many respects to the rest rules.
So I think it's important for economic reasons, climate reasons, job reasons, opportunities for enhanced reputation reasons for the state of Arizona to continue and expand its role in supporting renewable energy. The rest rules are a really important part of that. The way that things have developed with renewable energy industry and the investment in our most important resource, the sun, over the past twenty years indicates that there could be,
should be, and will be expansion of that industry. But it could be much more and it might not even expand at all unless the Commission continues to appreciate the value of renewable energy and the important role that the rest rules play in that. So I would encourage the Commission to derail and and, revise the proposed repeal and strengthen the rest rules to continue taking the policy lead to support renewables that Arizona has had a reputation for in the past but is
rapidly losing unless they re reverse direction. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time today. Okay. Next, we'll take comments from Lori Bryant, B R Y A N T. Thank you, Judge. I'm Lori Bryant. I'm with Arizona Interfaith Power and Light. And I live right here in Tucson, Arizona. And I have invested in solar at my home. And as a result of my up front investment, my energy bills are lower. When looking at the long term, that makes the most sense. And I figure that utilities should be looking at that the same way.
So I'm concerned about the repeal of rest because at this critical time, the future of energy needs is going up in our state. Just looking at population projections, the need for more air conditioning because of how hot it is and how long it stays hot now. Construction of data centers. All of these things, it's pretty clear that we're going to need more energy and not less. And so the fact that, utility scale solar costs have fallen by 84% since 2009.
And utility scale wind costs are down 55% over that same period. It's, they're cheaper to construct than natural gas, coal, or nuclear nuclear plants. And after construction, they produce energy far more efficiently, cleanly, less costly than gas, coal, or nuclear. It's kind of like everybody said already, a no brainer in Arizona. Let's get power from the sun. For the consumer, this is the best course of action. And we, the voters, task you, the corporation commission,
to ensure that the utilities are acting in our best interest, the people's best interest. I don't understand why we would repeal this right now. I really don't. Why? It doesn't make sense. This is about accountability. Because expanding renewable energy production is the most affordable way to go. And cost isn't the only issue. Renewables don't contribute to increasing heat and air pollution, like energy produced from coal and gas. And that is an extreme concern to me.
And it's extremely concerning to over 70% of the voters that agree that policymakers need to do more to combat climate pollution. 80% believe air pollution is a serious problem. We keep hearing this, and we need to listen. And the corporation commission are the exact policy makers to be listening to these comments, and acting on what we, the voters, want. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time today. Okay. Next, we'll take comments from Betsy Wilkening,
w I l k e n I n g. Thank you. Hello. My name is Betsy Wilkening, and I'm a fifth generation Tucsonan. And I'm speaking up today for the future of the seventh generation of my family that resides here. My ancestors first occupied these lands under the Mexican flag. I'm opposed to the repeal of the renewable energy standard and tariff rule. Solar energy is now the cheapest form of new electricity. It's here and reliable. Tucson, as much of Arizona, receives three hundred and fifty days of sunshine per year.
Solar energy does not require the water that's needed for fossil fuel or nuclear power plants. Arizona is already receiving a decreased allotment of Central Arizona project water that will only increase in the future. Furthermore, groundwater is a limited resource and is being depleted throughout the state. Solar energy also reduces air pollution that happens when burning methane or worse, coal to provide energy. Without the rest rule, utilities will build new gas plants because they can make more money off of them
through a rate base and a rate of return, as Chris Mays, our attorney general and former ACC member, has pointed out. As energy demands increase in Arizona, utilities will drop below the low 15% renewable energy benchmark specified in the rest rule. They will only be looking out for their profit and not lowering bills for customers or providing clean air. Arizona could be leading on renewable energy production, but instead we are lagging behind, with only 15.2%
of our power generation coming from renewable sources. Meanwhile, neighboring states are higher. New Mexico at 54.2%, Nevada at 39.6%, Colorado at 39.3%. And in California, at one point on May 25 year, renewables were producing a record 158% of the state's power demand. Consumers are paying the price now for methane and coal power plants in Arizona through our utility rates that keep increasing and in health effects of air pollution.
Do not repeal the rest rule. Instead, strengthen this rule. Hold utilities accountable to their customers and your constituents. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Okay. Next, we'll take comments from William Wilkening. Good morning. Good morning. So I am a resident of Tucson, I am here today with Third Act and I also work with a group called Watershed Management Group here in Tucson. I am here to ask that the ACC not turn its back on renewable energy. The electric demands on our state,
being pushed by data centers, are not only a reliability and cost issue, but will require excessive demands on the limited resource of water in this state, if non renewable sources are used. Just to generate the power demand of one project, Project Blue, using the best thermal process would require the equivalent of eight golf courses worth of water. Project Blue is but one of many data centers trying to come to the state. I don't think that we want to create this many new golf course equivalents,
so that I can watch the latest TikTok video. Also, the life of these data centers is only fifteen years. So let's do the smart things in setting up data centers. Use renewables, encourage the use of installed home battery systems via BPP, use the over 6,000 megawatts of capacity in the 100,000 plus electric vehicles via V2G technology and to work with other Western states on the creation of a regional energy market.
Project Blue has come to the conclusion that renewables are a valid power source. We should support and ensure that they and other data centers, plus the utilities, follow through with this commitment. This last point is why the rule should not be repealed. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time and your comments. Alright. Next, we'll take comments from Karen McDonald, m a c d o n a l d. Morning, and thank you, Judge Madder, for being here today. Thank you, staff,
for listening to us. My name is, Reverend Karen McDonald. I'm a minister in the United Church of Christ denomination. I'm here with Arizona Interfaith Power and Light. And I know that the commissioners weigh and staff as well in your work weigh a lot of issues and factors when you're making decisions. And I am urging you to keep the moral urgency of this issue top of mind in regard to the rest, standards. I'll start with a story. Last week, I went to Ramsey Canyon, made that good strong hike up to the top where the overlook is.
And it's breathtaking when you look over that ledge and you see the entire canyon stretching out before you, covered with all kinds of trees, many of them pine trees and fir trees. And then to see as you look closer, there are patches in that beautiful forest of brown because in this drought and heat, the the trees are dying and the borers are killing the trees. So, this is a beautiful state. It nourishes our economy. It nourishes our souls. And we need to protect that.
I'm also wearing a shirt today that shows, if you can see, a graph of how climate change temperatures have increased over decades, centuries even. The first red line is where college age students come into play. And you will note then that they are living their whole lives in increasing heat. Some of our younger folks have already mentioned that today. And they will they will inherit they are inheriting a world that will become inhabitable if we don't do something. Those Negative climate impacts of heat and drought and,
increasing pollution and natural disasters, impact negatively first. And worst, those most vulnerable among us. That's part of the moral issue. People living on the streets, older folks, young folks, people with underlying health, issues. We have been gifted, whether you just simply go to Reid Park or you go into Ramsey Canyon, Canyon, you see this amazing planet we've been gifted and charged to care for. And so I am urging this commission, the commissioners and staff who support them to,
not repeal these standards, but to, revise, strengthen them, that we can, help the utilities. They need our help, it seems, to progress in this movement in renewable energy for the benefit of ourselves and all of our neighbors. Thank you for your time and for listening. Thank you. Thank you for your time, and thank you for coming today. Okay. The last speaker slip I have is for Rick Rappaport, r a p p a p o r t. Please come forward, and it's not too late for anyone else,
you can quickly fill out a speaker slip, and bring it up to me. Otherwise, this will be our last speaker today. Hello. Thank you, judge. Thank you. I don't wanna re echo everything that's been said. I do wanna address something to the staff that I found sort of grievous, actually. When I read through the staff comments, they implied that the mass email click throughs were just not worthy of consideration because just because of that. They're basically the form became the substance. So, like,
if you vote in an election, you have to just check something. Your vote doesn't they don't ask you for personal information and personal ideas of why you're voting. You just make a check. That's what voting is. This is a very complex society. People don't have time to read the history of rest and figure out what to do. They get something from Sandy Barr or organizations they believe in, and they say sign here. They read it. If they agree to it, they sign. There's third 29,000
comments came, and I guarantee you that the high high percentage of those came from click throughs. What in the heck is wrong with that? You have put out a report that basically says, well, they don't really count because they just clicked on something. That's what we do in this country, we click. That's how we get things done. We buy, we sell, we vote, everything is a click. If you start discounting the click throughs, you're you're squelching the voice of 29,000 people who before the 14 of us who testified today,
that's on the record here. They need to count just as much as Bruce Plank or Sandy Barr or me. The second thing I wanna say is that this the the the way I listened to the staff report on the rest rules, it was like, well, these were really complicated and they're cumbersome. They're administratively bungling. They force utilities to do this, to do that, and, you know, there's so much red tape involved and we're just gonna get rid of them because, jeez, they're already complying and there's more red tape.
Well, the reason why they were cumbersome and bungling and red tape, you know, initially is because they you couldn't get the utilities to comply unless you basically had some handcuffs. They wouldn't comply. Now you're saying, well, because they were so bungling, we're gonna get rid of them. I mean, it's, you know, that's the opposite of what you should be doing. And the last thing I wanna say is the reason why gas plants are gonna be built and why the utilities will always fight renewable energy has to do with something that's not being raised here.
It's and this is the truth. It's from a book called, Why, The Price is Wrong, Why Capitalism Won't Save the Planet, is because these utilities are tied into the financial bond markets. They are completely tied into what their ratings are, how much they have to pay to borrow, and what their stock prices are. The CEOs and the execs, they get their salaries and bonuses depending on the stock price. And those financial markets say, if you have captive consumers and you have gas, you have guaranteed income.
You can the investors will invest where there's guaranteed income results and that's why. They'll never build solar on their own, you know, and they'll only build gas. They're sort of like trapped just like we are, not like we are, but they are they're completely controlled by the financial markets. And so the ACC, by rejecting rest, is saying don't worry, the ball's rolling down the hill, it'll get to the bottom. Bottom. It'll never get to the bottom. That's all I wanna say. Thank you, mister Rapaport. Wait. Before you walk away, mister Rapaport,
I have I just have a follow-up question for you. I just wanna make sure I understand some of your comments. The report that you were referring to, that talks about the administrative burden, the cumbersome, was that the, the economic small business consumer impact statement? No. This is what I read. This is listening to the woman who was speaking. Okay. I'm reading the original, the original enactment of the rest rules back in the early two thousands. Okay. Thank you, mister Rappaport. I appreciate your time today. Okay. We had one more person walk into the room during mister Rappaport's comments, so I just want to make sure there's no one else who wants to provide
public comment today. Those are all the speaker slips I have. But if you would like to speak, it is not too late. You can come forward now. Okay. Alright. And we also do not have anyone else on the phone today. So those are all of our public commenters today. I do wanna thank everyone for coming, and taking the time providing your comments. Would staff like to make a closing statement today? Hi. Good morning. I just wanna make sure we thank everybody for taking the time and commenting today on this very important issue.
We do appreciate your comments, and we do take them seriously. So thank you again. Thank you. You too. Okay. Alright. So the next step in this rulemaking process will be for staff to file by December 15. A summary of all written and oral comments concerning the notice of proposed rulemaking received between 08/19/2025 and November 14, along with staff's responses to those comments, as well as a final economic small business and consumer impact statement,
or a memo explaining why no revision to the economic impact statement dated 07/15/2025 is needed. The hearing division will then review the record and issue a recommended opinion in order for the commission's consideration at an open meeting. The commission will determine whether and in what manner the rulemaking should go forward. Okay. Are there any additional comments or issues, anything that needs to be addressed from staff during this oral proceeding? No. Thank you, your honor. Okay. Alright. We will now adjourn.
Thank you everyone again for your participation today. This oral proceeding is adjourned.