Um, welcome everyone. Today is Monday, April 21st, 2025, and this is a regular meeting of the city of Asbury Park Planning Board. Chairwoman Kurszac, can you please call this meeting to order? Yes. This meeting is being held in compliance with the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, public law 1975.
Adequate notice of the meeting has been provided to the Coaster and Esbury Park Press by publication of the annual meeting notice and posted on the municipal bulleting board and municipal website. All notices are on file with the board secretary. Official action can be taken on the following matters before
the board. This meeting is being recorded by APTV for your viewing pleasure in the future. Can you please uh join me in salute to the flag to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I will now take roll call. James Banano here. Councilwoman Clayton here. Jim Henry here. Jeremy Hoffman is absent this
evening. Mayor Moore here. Jen Ser here. Daniel Shaneo is absent this evening. Bob Zuckermanman is absent this evening. Kathy Mcllen here. Vice Chair Gunnan here. And Chairwoman Barbara Kurszac
here. Right. The first item uh on the agenda is a uh a resolution for approval of for um 7-Eleven Bangs Avenue, but I believe that our attorney has some uh statement. Yeah, that's going to be carried to the next meeting. I already spoke to Andy Caris. Um and we'll get
back to you on the uh the parking requirement. That was the only thing that was holding up. Okay. So So we don't we can we can just move it to the next meeting. Yeah. Okay. Simple enough. All right. We don't have to do a whole uh No. Okay.
Uh the next uh item that we have up is um we have the Armory 7 637 and 701 Lake Avenue. The uh I looked at the submissions. Your notices are in order. We have
jurisdiction. All right. Terrific. Okay. Hello. Hello. Good evening, uh members of the board. My name is Michael Vidiello. Uh I represent the applicant. I'm here tonight licensed attorney in good standing in the state of New Jersey. Um we are here tonight on this
matter for an application that was previously approved by the board. I'm sure you're all familiar well familiar with the application and the renovations. And the applicant has during construction come across some issues that required modifications to
the plan. And what the applicant has done is uh dealt with your administrative staff, spoken to Michelle and other staffers about whether it could be done administratively or not. That took a little while. There was some back and forth looking at the plans to try to understand that and then it was
determined, nope, it can't be done administratively. You have to return to the board. So here we are returning to the board to describe for the board the changes that we feel uh need to be included in the application or in the building. and we have our professionals here to explain what those are and why
uh they think that those are appropriate for the building. So if it pleases the board um what I would do is I would start with a representative from the applicant uh and then we have our architect here also to talk a little more detail about that. Okay.
Sir, please raise your right hand so I'm swear affirm testimony about the king of this miracle. The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do. Can you state your name for the record and spell it? Paul Andrew Milstein. Um, M I L L S T E I N. Thank you. Sure. Thank you. So, good
evening everyone and nice to see you again. Uh, I apologize for seeing you again. Uh, although it's always pleasant to come before you, we we don't like to take time to do this unless we need to. Uh I will just say that uh the VFW
project is is is a is a challenging small building. It's small relative. It's not new out of the ground cookie cutter and it's hard for us to perceive everything on documents and drawings and then when you get actually into the field scale and sizes and things are just different when you actually walk
them and appre and appreciate them in live in person. As we've gotten into the details of the project, which we are now, we're in the framing stage. It became apparent that we felt we had some mistakes in our plans or initial drawings. And what I think is one of the assets of this company is that the owner
is always willing to stop, change, do whatever he needs to do to get the project right. At the end of the day, we want to make sure we're have we have a product that we're all very proud of. So again, if you look at our portfolio and our history, you'll see that this is really what we specialize in. And sometimes you do have to make some changes that you feel is necessary.
We're not here to value engineer. We're not here to save money. uh always good to do, but that's not the intent here. Nor are any of these changes going to save any dime. The investment in this project will be substantial, and I think it'll be quite a unique and great project when we're done. That being said, uh I'd like to give it to the
architect, uh Dan from Motor Architects. Let him go through it, and then we can talk about it as we always do. Yes. Is that good? Sure. Hold on. Any questions? Any questions from the plane board members, our um professionals? the
public. Anyway questions from the public based on the testimony. Okay. Can you put on the record your position with the conference? I'm um vice president Doug's development. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Dan.
So Dan, you've heard uh how we've started off so far. So I'd like you to start by uh being sworn in. Yep. Dan, how are you? Good. Raise your right hand. You saw me swear affirm testimony about the given this matter. The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do. Please state your name for the record and spell it. Uh, Daniel
Condor. C O N D A T O R E. Thank you. And and I could have Dan put his qualifications back on the record. I'll I can zip through this. You're a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey, correct? Have been for some time. Yes. Are you still in good standing? Yes. You've appeared before this board numerous times. Testimony on
architectural matters. Sure. Good to go. Thank you. Thank you. So, so Dan, um, before you start to describe the changes that we're here to request, I I'll just remind you and remind the board. So, this site received an initial approval and then the applicant returned before
to the board for some changes regarding the roof line and roof trussing. Um, now we've received that approval working on the building now and now we're here again, Dan, to discuss these these minor changes. So, if you could please go through the board the changes we need.
Yeah. Just to summarize real quick that the the primary changes are some internal unit layouts. So the counts of the units obviously the area of the footprint is the same. So we're just reconfiguring some space internally to make the units that we feel uh have
better flow and better better use. And then um some window changes that are not fronting the um primarily not fronting the the the two streets, Bond Street and Lake. It's on the alley side. So that's the the two areas that clarify on the unit layout. On the unit layout, there's
no additional units. You're not taking away any units. The unit count staying exactly the same. It's just uh layout. Correct. Okay. Correct. All right. Um so this is Dan. Excuse me. Before you go any further, I want to swear in my staff discussions. Please raise your right hand. You saw me swear affirm that
testimony about the given matter be true all truth and nothing truth. I do. Please state your names for the recordation with the board. Donavilla, board planner. Sam Wakian, board engineer. Great. Thank you. Okay. Um, so the primary updates to the
floor plans centralized that that front bumpout where we had that that grant there's that staircase in the front along Lake Avenue. Um, the original plan uh you entered into a small vestibule along Lake and then we had two units side by side that were multi-story units. uh you
know going to the site and working with the client the the flow of the units and and the tightness of trying to make that a multi-store unit really wasn't working. Also it was difficult to provide any kind of ADA accessibility to those units since they were only able to have access from the lake a which were
the stairs. So those those were the two drivers that had us look at that situation. So what we've done is we've taken those units instead of having multi-store units we have a a stack of units per floor for the three levels. Um so that unit the the the first floor
unit you do have access we have the ramp area uh along bond you come in and then you have an accessible entrance a kitchen a living and then we have uh bedroom areas on the corners with each of them having their own bathroom. This
configuration also allowed us to expand these units on either side. So, we're able to punch an opening in the wall. Originally, we had a small bedroom that was up tight in here. Uh we're able to expand that unit uh and and grab some square footage and add a more formal
bedroom with more light and more windows, which was lacking because these original bedrooms didn't have windows. We only had the one window uh that was servicing the unit. So, that that cleaned that up. Um so overall like in this whole zone we just provide a better flow and we thought the the units have a
um better use for the for the residents. Shall we mark this as a Yeah, I was going to ask ask him to confirm. So the revised layout that we're talking about tonight that was submitted as part of the presentation for tonight. So that's definitely part of the record that was
submitted under the letter application for tonight. But if you'd like to mark it since he's A1. Very good. When you when you first started speaking, you were mentioning about the ramps. Have anything around the ramps changed or was it just the layout that you just mentioned about the bedrooms? The
external ramp. Yeah. Yeah. The external ramp. That's all stayed the same. Yeah. This is only internal within the exterior walls. Um, so as you make our way to the second floor, now you see this would have been the second floor of the units below, but now it's its own
individual unit, the same as what we have on the first floor. Uh, where you have the elevator that comes up. There's a small hallway here. You have an entrance to a unit that's accessible uh living space. You have the windows in the front bringing a light. And then we have a bedroom flank on either side. And
again, we've expanded these units to to grab some square footage that was, you know, uh reconfigured and it brought into here. So, that continued uh for this area as well. And then even on the second floor, I mean, I guess you guys get to see the theme at this point,
right? Um you know, here, this unit here, we reconfigured a little bit the kitchen uh and entry area ex shifting the entry closer to the elevator. Uh the elevator and the stairs actually flipped exactly. So the elevator used to be on
this side and the stairs used to be over here. And you can see the the area that the stairs take were really impeding on this unit. So by putting the elevator here and the stairs over there, we're able to get a more spacious unit on that side cuz that corner was getting a
little tight for us. So just in general like I said u and as Paul mentioned you know as we're going out there working on it looking at the existing spaces and how everything flows you're just making adaptive changes to make it better. So uh I mean that's the extent of of what
we're doing on the inside of the building. Um and then we have these are the comparison elevations for the back side. So this is at the top elevation. One second. So these are part of the same plan set. Is it okay to have them all A1? Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Um, so
this is the original. This is what we had submitted for the last uh resolution compliance set in our last presentation. Um, this is the back alley that would be perpendicular to Bond Street. Uh, you can see we have a a couple single set of windows and then we have a large set of
double hungs. I mean when we originally originally you know came uh the first time the idea was that you know we wanted to carry the theme of these these double windows from the original openings up to the upper floors. Uh once we started framing it and we're in these
spaces I mean they're nice size units but these are large openings that really don't have any kind of view. So it was it was too much of uh of uh transparency between us and the alley. uh we didn't think it was it was necessary. We felt there was sufficient amount of light and
it wouldn't impact the architecture of the building. So um for those units uh we changed them um to more of a a a single double hung window. There is one that remains the same in the middle and
if I go back to the floor plan I can show you why. Um that that window splits two bedrooms, right? So, uh that's why we left that one the way it is. And then you can see we have the the single windows on either
side. So, that that's the elevation on uh the alley. And and again, uh Dan, your plan set. So, we have the before and after drawings for you to make it very clear so that we could all understand. And and this is similar to
um here's the uh the other alley that is perpendicular to lake. We have a large amount of openings over here. Uh it just was overbearing for for what you were looking at. I mean obviously on the existing building we we were not going to change the openings because we're
we're maintaining the historical context of the building. But on on the new addition, we felt it was just a little bit too much and and too intense. Um so we we changed those. We centered them up. They stack and they just switched to
single double hung windows. Um, and then moving around on this is the Bond Street elevation. Um, this is the approved elevation at the top. We had these two little windows at the center. Um, they
felt inadequate, you know, speaking with Paul and the team and wanted to do something a little more there. So in this case we actually added uh more bigger windows and introduced those same type of single double double hung
windows there as well uh on that elevation but we maintained everything else. Uh and then finally this is the Lake Avenue elevation. Um and then when you go to the the the latest one, you can see
there's there's really there's no changes on that elevation from what we have approved in the uh resolution compliance. So the top is again the top is the resolution compliance. Um the bottom is what we've recently submitted as the new application.
And that is the uh summary of the changes. So no changes on one facade, changes on the other three facades that you described. Right. So that's contrary to what your initial statement was where you had mentioned that it was only in the alleyways which is not true. You are
making a change on bond on bond the two windows on bond. Sorry I misspoke on that. Correct. Now uh I have a question about the bond side. I see on the if you look at your rendering, it's showing me on the left hand side on the fourth story that those are two separate
windows as opposed to if you look up what was approved. Go to the is our two Oh, they're like mold. They're different windows. Is that intentional or is that a mistake? Right. That's intentional because But you didn't mention that that
was a change. Yeah, it there's it's it wouldn't be when a window is framed out, they're going to be as tight as possible cuz we have the wall. It's almost the same situation that we have on the back. It's just graphically. So, on the
back, it's it's similar. Where am I here? There. Right there. Yes. So, we're putting the walls in between it, but you wouldn't see siding in between here. That's just a that's graphically that would just be trimmed just the way the
window would be trimmed to appear as a single window. But it is technically two individual windows that are put side by side with the end of the wall in between. Separated by trim, not by side. Yes, that's correct. But but just to be clear, because we're
we're going to see you that I would appreciate that any changes, okay, are noted as opposed to us having to look through this and saying, "Oh, you didn't mention this." Okay. So, I would appreciate that. It makes it makes life a lot easier for all of us. So, then I don't have to bring it up. Are there any
others before we go further? Any other small changes we can talk about that you didn't hit on? It would be it would be the same situation on the other side. That that's all that with the division between with the division and you can see it on the plans how that happens. All right. So, pardon me, Dan. The
um is there going to be a uniform dimension for where it breaks on a wall where the windows are separated on a wall? Is it going to be at least 8 in or 6 in or it would be the width of the wall which would be 6 in which is not uncommon. I mean the
trim around the windows 4 in itself. And it's actually a standard in our waterfront design guidelines. Yeah. Yeah, but but I'm not necessarily CBD, but I'm just saying. Um, so perhaps we just want to make sure that where we've got windows that are
not completely mold together, but are budding, sharing a wall. Right. We understand that it's a certain standard dimension and it will be trimmed out as trim, not siding. Right. Correct. Right. But so I'm I'm sorry. I'm just I'm I'm
just not I'm not I'm not getting why the windows those windows those two very specifically on the left hand side of Bond. Why can up they not be what you said they were going to be? I don't I I still I don't get it. So they don't they're they're not the same
as all the rest of the windows that are on that side of the the windows we're talking on on that side of the building. They're not the same. Let's just talk let's just show the those windows. Are you going the wrong way? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to hang on to the one's on bond. Okay. Yes. That's these two windows. I don't Sorry. Is that the
proposed or the It's this proposed, right? It's not the same as the rest of them. So, I don't get it. Right. That's what was approved. And this was approved. Right. Yeah. So, when a window is mulled together, the two frames, they're not touching. There is still a
center mullion that has some dimension to it, but it's obviously not enough to intersect a wall. So, in that case, we have to pull the window apart and then have the wall divide the two. But it's it's very slight. It's you're not really
once it's finished, you won't know the difference. It's very minimal. So, the issue is what's inside. Yes. what's inside the units are driving the change. Okay? Because we're split we're we're we're putting it where there's two
bedrooms or two demising walls from either unit to unit or bedroom to bedroom room to room. Room to room right there. Like here I have a bedroom and a bedroom. Right. Right.
So that we have to put a wall in between that wall has to carry to the end and have two windows on either side. So show me that. So show me the that specific window that we're talking about. The unit that specific unit that we're talking about on the fourth floor on bond, right? On bond. Bond. Yeah, not
that one. No, it's it knows this one. The actual layout. Oh. Oh, bond. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The floor plan. So So we can see that what you're saying is exactly why there's a So here it is here. That's That's the one that's facing Yep. on the right. And then it'll
be the same on the opposite side. So the original plan had just one room and that was one window in a room. No wall there. There was no wall there. So when we reconfigured everything, the wall we brought the wall in and then so
we didn't want to change it and like we could have you know ideally we would have like separated and separated it right and have the center but we wanted to maintain the architecture. That's right. So, we just let the wall biseect the windows. Okay. And then to put the two together for the same style. Okay.
Is is the interior layout also part of the driver for part of the what? Driving the change for the other elevations that have went from two to one. Well, I think it's a it's not just a it's a function
of the size of the opening in the in the bedroom. So if you take like this bedroom in the back originally would have had two double two two windows and two windows, right? It I mean the whole back corner alley unit would have had four windows in it which is you know
makes it hard for furniture. Well yeah and it's it's just in it's too too much scale of glazing. But that one's the worst case scenario. Well that one in particular is the worst case scenario. But I think all the windows facing facing the alley side uh do not need to be that large. Okay. When you were
there, you did alter the layout of the units on the alley side. So, where the walls were before are not all where the walls are going to be now. And that shifted some of the alignment of where this unit Yeah, this unit was
reconfigured in the back over here. That shifted things around. Oh, yeah. You're right. Sorry about that. 302 and 304 shifted and then the two corner units shift. These got cleaned up. That's what I This unit got expanded and then we have the kitchen
was more of an ab buttress here in the middle and then this got reconfigured a little bit and on Bond Street you had a closet in the middle. Same thing here. um you know the window placement on the
corner and in the alley. Can you testify as to when did you find out that you were going to actually install the single windows without saying anything? Well, we could ask Paul if he wants to do he he's already he's already been sworn he's done. He can
come back but he'll be have to be questioned once again. Yeah. No, he might be unless Dan can answer. I don't if Dan can answer. I don't have a definitive timetable when when the work was cuz cuz essentially they were put in they were put in Okay. Can we come back
and ask when they were done compared to when we started the process of trying to if if it pleases the board. Is that okay? Is that okay? But remember you're you're you're still on the roof. Sorry.
So So yeah. So this was probably two months ago give or take. I'm not exactly sure of timing when the framing was happening and we had um come through the last got approval and then as we started sheathing in the outsides it made sense to make the changes. So I wasn't sure if
they needed to be administratively with a revised set of prints. I had to come back to the board. I reached out to town there's been communication and obviously we need to come back to the board. So I will tell you that um if the if it if it if it's not acceptable to the board we'll put the windows in. We bought the windows. They're at the building. I
mean, the bedrooms can have more windows. The closet can have a window. None of it's earthshattering. Um, I apologize for getting the cart before the horse. It's not my intention. Um, but we do feel that it's more in scale now. It gives more usable area in the bedrooms. Uh, we actually love natural
light and the alley elevations don't bother me. I'm I did a lot of development in the city. I'm so that's fine. We just thought this made more sense. So, process-wise, out of line, I'm take that. He has no idea. He's in Florida. He doesn't know what I do on a daily basis and probably better off. He
couldn't take it. Um, so that's me and and we can change it if we need to. We we want to have a great project and a great relationship and that's what I'll take full responsibility for that. Yeah. Going forward, what we're looking for is that our so that the people that are doing inspections don't find things as opposed to you coming up and saying,
"Hey, sure. Here's what we want to do. We've all had we prefer it to go the way." I understand. Okay. Well, that's me. Okay. But in this case, the it wasn't an inspector who had wandered by. The applicant did come in. That's not true. So, I was gonna let you just
completely say January 9th was the day that we went out there and we told you all about it. Okay. That all the windows were done. All the framing's done. Sure. Now you're coming in. So, I believe with the tremendous getting that is that you got caught and now you're coming back, which I don't have any say on the architectural. I think it's good. But
don't try to say it happened 2 months ago and you just found out. I don't know the exact time and I all over the country. Thank you for the help. Listen, I can tell you one thing. I have nothing to hide. I'm an open book. I welcome you to come by the project any day. Process is not my strong suit. I build a great building. We do a nice job. We screw it
up. I'll take the hit for that. Exactly what month, what day, who's caught who, who shot who. I'm an open book. Mhm. Again, just to jump, no one's trying to inspect. Our observation isn't trying to find one on you. You know what I mean? constructed to plan. I get it to the point of the board, but to the point of
the board what they're trying to say. We just want full transparency. I I understand and and you're going to be developing here in the city again. So, we just want to make sure that you understand our process and you're learning as as part as part of it. I am. I am. So, thank you. Okay. You want to
come back up? Um your thumb, please. Thank you. Is there any anything else? No. Okay. Does the uh does the board have any concerns, questions, thoughts?
Yeah, I have a go to sheet A903. That's where we to replace the two small windows over the stairwell, the entrance with larger windows. Correct. And when
you did that, you changed the whole look of the that whole facade. Why didn't you keep the top of the windows at the same elevation rather than bump those up and make them Well,
that's the original design. the smaller windows. Yeah, we did set that at the the head. We aligned the head and we just felt the windows weren't adequate enough for that elevation. Um we put these larger windows in uh the sill, you
know, there's a natural slope to the power pit here. You see on the bottom that caused us to raise those heads um when we wanted to maintain the proportions of the windows that we had adjacent to it. So, we're keeping the same proportions of window height and width and we put them in there which
caused the head to be raised. I mean, it would seem to me that uh by putting a shorter window, keeping the head uh of all the windows at the same elevation, you would have gotten a much nicer look. We can look at that. Well, we see that
they're not installed yet. So, okay. That's still a possibility. Either way, we're not, and you heard Paul, the fact that something might be installed, we're not suggesting that that means it can't change. We know that. So, we're we're willing to do whatever it takes. Well,
personally, I think that by uh putting the larger windows in, but keeping the uh head height the same, you have to shorten the overall height of the window, you get a much better roof. Even though it's got the peak there, Jim, I'm sorry. Even though it's got that peak,
that's the area where the I mean it comes up. You make the window shorter. You don't instead of having a 60-in window, you have a uh you know a 48 or uh you know or 42. Yeah, we're trying to fill We're trying to Yeah. Okay. No, no, yeah. No, I was just like I said that
that's the area where the roof peaks up. It would seem like you know understand but when you perspectively so I I see your I see your point of it though from the street you will see that. You will notice it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean like like we just felt like kept keeping the rhythm of the size of the windows that
we had on the facade maintain the rhythm although the head change we felt was more consistent and then at the same time like what uh Donna is saying is we have that that that that gable that raises up and creates more of a forehead and we're trying to reduce that. That
was the reason why we did it that way. Yeah, I I actually kind of like that those windows are a little more elevated. It kind of follows the rhythm of the second level where the windows above the door followed the peak of the original building. Now these follow the peak of the addition.
Okay. I think it kind of follows the rhythm of of the original building below. Anybody else? Any other board member have any any uh anything to say about the uh reduction of windows from two to
one? Uh I think there what there eight windows or 10 windows that you think the number off top my head there's like there's a minimum of eight uh windows that were changed from one to from two to one and honestly I definitely I did
prefer the original um I'm also always I understand the layout issues um but I interior but I would never have and I know it's it's a decision that's already in place but in terms of having you know too much light or anything like that.
That's not a concern. I mean that I would have on an alley or having a view of an alley. A lot of people like to have as much light. As much light as possible, right? Cuz it sounds as though that what you're mentioning is um in both alleys you're saying, "All right, well, let's have less light, but in the front, let's
have more light." I would have more I would rather have more light in the alleys because you're you're more enclosed. I'll ask a person who rents a tiny bedroom. Go ahead. That small window would be a godsend cuz I can finally have another wall to put furniture against. That's how that's that that that's how you're looking at
it. That's fine. As as opposed to the bigger window. Yeah, cuz I only have one wall and I can't do anything with like in my house in my living room. My couch is up against my window. So the sun just shines in my window right on the back of my couch because I just have nowhere for
furniture because of a So it's always this board's very experienced. It's always a give and take between we want a window there but we need a closet there or we want you know so uh it's a mixing of the
needs. Anybody any other Can you give us a quantity that has to be 10 is it 10 windows? So 10 windows were reduced from two to one. Correct. And then then there is a change in in uh two in uh the front
and the the ones in the front uh the ones facing bond on on the top from small windows to the same size windows that you put on the in the alleys. Um, and that other set of windows that that are going to look the same as they
originally did, but on the plan they don't look the same. Correct. A and again, just for clarification, on the exhibit that was submitted to the board, you'll see if you look really close, there might be siding between those windows, and that's inaccurate. We can
correct that. That would be trim. It would not be siding, even though the exhibit shows that. That was just more a computer drafting item. Any any other comments from the uh planning board members? Any comments
from our professionals or questions from the professionals? Yeah. The only thing I would have to add is if there's any additional questions of Mr. Milstein when he testified that short period, we should open it up for Yes. When we open open up the questions from the public to both witnesses. Why don't we say that?
That just came in. Anybody? Anyone? Okay. It sounds It sounds um Well, we need to we need to understand what the board members feel about reducing reducing 10 windows from two to one. Excuse me. Yes, Mr.
Chairman. Did we just have crossed just then or was there public comment as well? That that was not public comment. No, not public comment. Cuz I I didn't get that. We're done. D done. We're done with Skip it. That's all with with Dan but not done with the presentation.
Are do we have another witness or are we done? I don't think so. No. Uh we are done unless the board has questions that we haven't answered yet. Okay. All right then. Any uh any any comments? Uh can we open it up to uh to to public
comment before the uh board members make comments? Sure. Motion to open up comments to the public. So move. Second. All in favor? I. Any opposed? I have it. All right. Anyone from the public that would like to make any comments
regarding these modifications? Opposed. Second. All in favor? I opposed. I have it. All right. It sounds as though we have uh a mixed bag of of who um is in favor of what here. It sounds like uh so I'm
not quite sure how how we can uh make that determination. Well, you can split out the issues. All right. We have two we have categories and decide to vote on the various categories. That's fine with me. We have we have two separate issues. The uh the 10 windows that are se that
are modified and moved to one window. Do uh how do people how do various people feel about that? Yes. Maybe you ought to look at the issue of the floor plan first because if you That's fine. If the floor plan is accepted, then that kind
of drives the windows. Okay. Um, does anybody not accept the floor plan or any issues with the floor plan? Any comments that they want to make about the floor plan changes that were mentioned? No. No. I think that seemed better. I think that that there was a better
better choice. So, I don't think that we have controversy there. I like bedrooms to have windows. So, exactly. We like we we prefer bedrooms with windows. Okay. Um, how about uh how how does the board feel about the uh the 10 windows that
are moving from two to one? Any uh anyone feel feel strongly? I'm I'm one way or another. I mean, I'll just say again, I from an aesthetic like the the aesthetics from the exterior of the building and the light and all that, I
prefer the to how it was. Um, however, I feel like the decision I mean was made. I realize it could be changed. Um, I believe the decisions were made for reasons in interior layout, you know, that um I I wouldn't ask for it to be re
redone. I I feel the exact same way. Aesthetically, it looks nice with windows. Yeah. But I mean, realistically, you're never going to see really be seeing this side of the building from far away. And if it makes more sense for the interior layout, it would might make sense to do it. The
thing I'm trying to think about is if this had been presented to us the first time around with the smaller windows, I mean, I don't think these windows would have been any reason to not approve it. Um, so just cuz they're changing from bigger ones to smaller ones. I I personally don't see any reason to not approve it if that's what they want to
do. I don't think it violates any anything that, you know, is normally a box we look to check off. I I feel the same I feel exactly the same way that aesthetically I much prefer the doubles all the way around. I think that that looks a lot better. I think that the the the the point that they're both in
alleyways where it's not visible to the truly not visible to the public to see the building and how that how it impacts the building. Um and that you feel that inside that it makes a lot more sense to
have one. Um, I get it uh from that perspective. So, do we feel like that that's one part? So, are we feeling okay with the the two windows going down to one? I'm not hearing any. Yeah, I think you pretty well. Okay.
Now, all right. So, we're okay there. Now, we have the the front. Um, how do people feel about the I know we've we've received um comments on both ways of saying, you know, should we would would we prefer to have the the two smaller
windows to have them uh at the same level as the other windows are or would we are we okay with the heightened windows and because there's a peak there that it's it kind of flows with the building.
I'm okay with the way they're the the higher ones. So because that middle is kind of different anyway. Yeah, the the peak in the middle also the windows underneath it are already already higher up also. So I feel like it kind of continues that flow moving up as well as the peak. It looks fine to me and I think the bigger windows are better than
the smaller windows in that particular situation. Yeah. Where because of where it is in the building. Yeah. Anyone anyone else? I just have a question to behind those two windows. Is that a It's part of the kitchen area and
the uh of a unit. It's a living area. Yeah. They're here along that wall here on what? 302. Yeah, 302. 30 is 308. 301 and two or Yeah. Are we on the right side of the
building? The issue that the issue you don't see them and I can fix that is that when we build these models and we cut them, we cut the floor at a certain height. So they're probably above the cut line. So you're not seeing them graphically on the floor plan. Can you show us where they are? They're going to be right in
the middle. So they'll be right in the window. Oh yeah. Yeah. See here? See this bump out here? That's one. That's the small window. No, that's the bumpout up here for the column. The column on the facade that the blank panel. Oh, that. Okay. So, those are the those are
the columns between the columns is over here. So, it's in between them and here. Gotcha. So, that so that particular unit is going to get increased amount of lighting. Yes. For kitchen and living room. Yes. That's a better Yes. That's a
better deal for that apartment. for that particular apartment. And that unit changed because again, remember how he said they flipped the elevator and the stair? Yes. So, it used to be a closet in that area to squish in. Yes. I'm interior. Mhm. And we have the
height cuz we have the trusses. So, this is all it's all vaulted in that area. I I think it's a nice I understand. I I I I especially because of what's going on inside. I think that little Yeah, I think that that's uh that's an
improvement there. The little windows were cute. There's no there's no I see no reason to say no to that. Right. Any other comments from the from the board members? No. No. Sounds like you
can vote on I think that I think that we can vote on them as a whole. Yeah. Um, and we don't have any I don't believe that there are any um conditions any conditions uh outside of just ensuring that that trim is correct
that everything looks uniform and we'll submit a revised exhibit. It's hard to see but when you zoom in you'll be able to see it. But we want to make sure that once it's built that those you those all those windows look the same. Yeah. Correct. You know even though there's a little you know there's a little issue there. I don't know if that's a
condition. I don't know what what that would be. Yeah. I I've got it in here that we're going to get a a revised A1 that'll show the trim. Yep. Uh and that's that's the usual there's some usual clauses in in amendments and but
we go we cut to the chase. I get right to the particulars. Okay. All right. Great. All right. Can I get a motion for approval of this of the application with these modifications that were presented to us today? So, Barbara, just quickly, the members that are actually eligible,
James, Michael, Barbara, Daniel, who is absent, uh, Mayor Moore, Jen Solder, and Jeremy, who was absent. Those the original resolution. Okay. So, that's who's allowed to vote. So, John, John's moving it. Yeah. Unless uh other members
have the transcripts. Second by Barbara. That's fine. Who moved it? John. John Mark. Mayor, thank you. And Bor, are you seconded? Yes. Okay. So, um, James Banano, yes.
Uh, Mayor Moore, yes. Jen Solder, yes. Vice Chair Gunnan, yes. Chairwoman Barbara Kurszac, yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Continue to build a beautiful building.
You want to take a quick five minutes? Five minutes. Five minutes. Okay. Second. Anyone? Second. Second. Second. Okay, Jen. All in favor? I posted. All right. 5 minutes 10 of We're starting again.
Hi everyone. I will take roll call. James Banano here. Councilwoman Clayton here. Jim Henry here. Mayor John Moore here. Jen Solder here. Kathy McGlowan here. Vice Chair
Mike Gunan here. And Chairwoman Barbara Herz here. I've reviewed the notices for the next uh application. They're in proper form. Thank you. Good evening again, board. Again, Michael Vidiello. For the record, I'm representing the applicant on the next
matter. This is Jamal Braverman Building LLC. Is the applicant. The applicant is seeking preliminary and final major site plan approval for property located at 1201 Memorial Drive. Uh this property has been designated as an area need of
redevelopment. It is subject to your 1201 Memorial Drive redevelopment plan. Uh the property is currently vacant and it's bounded Memorial Drive on to the east, 4th Avenue to South, and Fifth Avenue to the north. The proposal, as
you'll hear in more detail soon, is for a fivestory mixed juice uh development. Um it's to include 126 residential units. 26 of those will be affordable units. approximately 2,000 square feet
of commercial space on the first floor. And it'll have customary associated improvements, landscaping, streetscaping improvements. It'll also include a parking garage, mostly under the building, but some of it adjacent to the building for 131 total parking spaces.
And um with me here this evening, I if it pleases the board, I'd like to start with a representative from the applicant. Um, and I also have my architect here this evening to go through and explain to the board the architecture the elevations that are proposed. The whole project has been
designed in accordance with the redevelopment plan. The intent of the applicant during the design process was to avoid any variances and to comply with the plan which I believe they've done. Um there are a few design waiver exceptions that have been noted in your
board consultants reports that we can also talk about and if it pleases the board we'd like to start. My civil engineer for this matter is not here tonight. We do intend to revise our plans in certain respects to comply with
the comments in the review letters um to to take the intent of those comments. So, we do anticipate getting a revised set to you, but a lot of the architecture that you're going to hear spoken about tonight is not really subject to those revisions. So, we'd like to put that testimony on if it
pleases the board. Okay. So, you're going to have your architect come up. Yes. Okay. And Paul, would you like to start briefly and uh describe for two seconds? Okay. Once again, right hand from testimony about to give this man truth the whole truth to nothing but the
truth. I do. Thank you. And you are still Paul Mil. I am still Paul Mills. Yes, sir. And your title with the board vice president Doug Development Corporation. Right. Thank you. Okay. And describe briefly with the board what uh what the intent here. Uh so the intent here is we we've gone through quite a
lengthy process with the uh the mayor and council previously on the redevelopment plan. So we just want to continue to follow through. This is our planning board process. So again, um I think there's there's a couple items that were were left open in the redevelopment plan for subject to the planning board which is going to deal
with ingress and egress and I think that's going to be a lengthy discussion. We intend to have the traffic engineer available. There'll be testimony and cross examination etc. But the thought was tonight to uh since we had to come back but at least get the architecture up here and get as far as we can be being respectful of your time and and
then we'll deal with the engineers at the next hearing. It was with a thought. So there we go. Thank you. Okay. Any questions before he runs away? Any questions for planning board members, professional public questions? Okay.
Okay. All right. So, another Dan, same company, different last name, different person. Sir, please raise your right hand. So, we swear affirm the testimony of the given murder, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do.
And your name again? Daniel Zenetto. Zan E. You've appeared before us, correct? Yes. And you are a licensed architect, correct? And you are your license in good standing? Yes. Nothing has changed since the last time you testified before
the board. No. All good. So, so Dan, you you've heard our brief introduction and how we uh propose to proceed tonight. So, with that in mind, can you please describe uh the proposed structure for the board?
Sure. So um as Paul has kind of mentioned in the uh his introduction so what you were let me just clarify for our record I'm sorry to interrupt so what you're displaying this is part of the submission application right these correct these are the submitted plans
okay so we're going to uh as the board attorney indicated we're going to mark these as A1 yeah just identify them for us so we have them for the revision date on the cover sheet or something like that and the date is uh February 11th. I just
want to make sure. Yeah. Give us the ID and date. Yes. February 11th. Great. You want me to mark this A1? Yes, please. Note that, please. Thank you. Okay, close enough.
Okay. So, the the building here is uh 1201 Memorial Drive. It's part of the 1201 Memorial Drive redevelopment plan. And we've had a lot of back and forth and uh input from the board uh the the council
and we've met the neighbors and we've, you know, it's been a process of years to get to this point. And we think that all of that input has really been helpful to create the building that we have here. Um, we think it's a beautiful building. It's five stories, uh, 126
dwelling units on the upper floors. The ground floor is all parking and, uh, three, uh, retail spaces along Memorial Drive. And uh we tried to give it a nice urban
feel, a mix of materials. We're using um thin brick uh facade and hardy panel and siding, a mix of uh some metal trim and corrugated metal panels. Uh lots of
glazing and interesting facade um details to to provide rhythm and shadow lines. So um just quickly looking at the existing site here. So these are some
photos of the the vacant site as it is now. This is a view from across Memorial Drive on the opposite side of the tracks looking towards the uh the site. This one here looking south from Fifth Avenue across the site. Right now
there there's nothing built. Uh, it's been cleared and fenced. Um, looking north from 4th Avenue. And then this is the corner of Fourth and Memorial looking northwest. And lastly, the view from the
northeast corner looking southwest. This is Fifth and Memorial. So, I'll start with the the floor plans. This is the ground floor. The entrance, the vehicle entrance to the building happens on 4th Avenue. You
enter the uh the main drive into the parking area where we have 132 parking spaces and we're providing EV as required by the state. And um they're not shown here, but I
know we do have some some spaces marked for um ride share uh drop off, Uber, Door Dash, those type of spaces will be there will be an area designated for those uses. Again, I'm sorry for the interruption. I want to swear in my
staff again, please, in case we have some interaction. Please tell me swear affirm testimony about the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Hello. Please identify yourselves for the record and your affiliation with the board. Donna Miller, board planner. Samvakian, board engineer. Sorry for the
interruption. Thank you. No problem. No problem. Uh but I'm going to continue to interrupt. Um Dan, can you just clarify the total number of parking spaces? 132 parking spaces. Yeah, Don has there's a
discrepancy. There's 131 every time I count them. Okay. Yeah. So just just we'll we'll be sure to uh to look at that and revise as needed. Um so again just going through the the floor plan. We have the the gray
shaded area here is the parking that is under the building. And then at the west end of the the site, we have some parking that is not underneath the building, extends beyond the footprint of the building. Uh along Memorial
Drive, we have three small retail spaces uh ranging from about 400 ft² to 900 square ft. The main pedestrian entry or lobby is on Fifth Avenue. Uh there's a a lobby
space, uh mail room, packages, and uh there's bike storage also on Fifth Avenue that happens the the corner here. So this is vertically uh oriented racks.
Um, also located on the ground floor is a secondary lobby. And this is um another elevator, stairs, and then some utility spaces and a trash room. So, moving up through the building, we
come to the the first floor. And this floor has a unit count of 36 units. Uh there's a mix of market rate uh studio, onebedroom, two-bedroom, and then uh a few affordable bedrooms. Uh onebedroom,
two-bedroom, 3bedroom. So, there are eight affordable units on this level. And there's also a center courtyard. So, this is an amenity space that could be used by any of the
tenants. Um, it's just a like a lounge area to get outside, get some fresh air. And that courtyard's open to the sky. It's not that's open direct to the sky. Correct. Okay. Right. Is there anything out there other than pavers and those
two planters? Uh well, I'm sure we'll we'll have site furniture and you know, benches and tables, but it's all kind of freestanding. Nothing's fixed, so it can be rearranged and moved. Same with the the planters are intended to be
freestanding planters, not built in so that they can be reconfigured as needed. But uh it is just a pa pedestal paver um courtyard is that with free stand talking pvious impervious that would be it's it's all
it's all actually part of the roof system. So it's part of what it's part of the roof. It's not it's not a pvious system. If you're in the parking garage the roof over your roof of the parking garage, right? Okay. That's interesting.
Do you have the um the 3D rendered image showing the roof? So you can see the opening top of the roof. Sure. One of those. There you go. So if you go down in that center section, you wouldn't get all the way down to the ground level.
You'd hit that courtyard which is above the parking area. So, it's elevated one floor, the outdoor courtyard. Is that correct? Correct. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. So,
um the units along Fourth, Fifth, and Memorial Drive, um some of them do have balconies on Fourth and Fifth. They're projecting balconies. along Memorial where they occur. They're recessed balconies. The two corner units on
fourth in Memorial and Fifth and Memorial have wraparound balconies. Moving up to the the second residential floor, it's a very similar layout. the units
um again having uh balconies along Fourth and Fifth and Memorial Drive. The interior units have views into the courtyard. And again, there's a mix of market rate and affordable units on this
floor there in the stair. And again, this is the the third floor moving up. It's a similar layout to the floors below. Again, there's a mix of affordable and market rate units. And then lastly, moving up to the
fourth residential floor. Now, this floor is different in that we only have a single loaded corridor. So, there's there's nearly half as many units, right? and they're set further back from the the
frontages. Um, we also have a shared roof terrace area that any of the occupants can have access to this area as well. So, all the tenants will have
access to the center courtyard on the first residential floor and the shared roof terrace on the upper residential floor. The the private units on this floor have access to each have access to a private roof terrace where this will have a uh
pedestal pa system and uh it's enclosed by a priv a railing at each private terrace and a screen wall between the units. A privacy screen 6t high. Does that sixoot wall extend all the way to the the entire depth of the terrace?
Uh I believe the height steps down as it uh gets past a certain distance. So if we see I I think it extends 8 ft from the wall and then it drops down to a railing.
Can you So the privacy not being able to look into your neighbor's window essentially. But you had a question. Yeah. While we're here, can you just tell us the the height of that the end railing and the height of the parapit? How do those compare? The height of the railing would be 3'6
above the pedestal paver and the parapit I believe is 3'6 above the main roof, which is a couple of inches lower. How the pedestal p in? Yeah, just a few inches. I I couldn't say for sure. Um
probably about 6 in. You wouldn't see the railings either. No, everything is set back. Um, you can kind of see this is the That's the the screen wall. Correct. Um, if I have a good section of that, but you can see
the distances here that we're talking about. The front of the penthouse units are for Memorial Drive 33 foot6 from the front and the the railing is 15 ft 5 in from the front of the building.
And that that roof structure the there was a roof structure above the terrace garden that's pretty visible in the elevation view like a like a pergola type of uh correct cover sheet. That's right. Right. There's a a metal pergola above
the the shared courtyard of the roof level. And then the mechanical units are proposed for the roof above the uh the fifth floor units. That's where the the main um mechanicals for the the units the the
retail and is there common areas screen? Uh there's no parapit and if there are any issues we intend to do a sighteline diagram to show the um what's visible from the right of way and if there's
anything that's visible we would provide screening for those units. Um these are set back quite a ways from from the property line and from the building face. So, one thing I I didn't mention on the ground floor and the the
footprint of the building is, you know, we've set the building back, I believe, 25 ft, 26 ft um from the property line to give a generator setback. And the goal here was to kind of align the the face of the building with the face of
the existing buildings along fourth and fifth. So, um there's going to be generous landscaped areas here. Uh large setbacks on Fourth and Fifth, and then we're, you know, closer to the property line on Memorial Drive.
Um and that that will help with the the visibility of those units. Um, we'll get to some of the 3D perspectives where you can see that the the top floor of the uh the building nearly disappears from the
uh pedestrian scale. Uh moving along to the elevations, the main building materials here that we're showing are a thin brick veneer in a in a red brick and also a darker gray uh
kind of charcoal colored brick. Uh that's what you see on the corners here in this gritted pattern. We also have some fiber cement panel um with reveals and uh there are
um areas of recess and and columns that bump out to create shadow and detail. On the upper floor, we're showing a fiber cement siding. All the windows have black
frames. this uh lobby element. So, the lobby stacks vertically on all the floors. It'll have large windows into the the elevator lobby space and the stair tower. This space is clad in a corrugated metal
panel with a detail above the around the entry and uh storefront glass framing also black framed. Your retail spaces have uh a series
of storefront framing, spandrel panel, and clear glazing. Each of these areas also has a canopy with some signage areas for the tenants. Well, while we're there, the the windows on that lobby area, that rightmost
window you said looks into a stairwell. So, are we going to see bright lights in there all the time? There's a minimum uh lighting that needs to happen because it is an egress stair, but those could be put on occupancy sensors so that they
dim the minimum level when no one is in that stair. And then when someone opens the door and goes into the stair, they would turn a little bit brighter. But, uh, they don't need to be at full blast 24/7. Yeah, we need we
need that that on our list. Yeah. Uh would the board consider um like maybe one's a frosted panel and the other one's a clear glass so we get some of that you know visual whatever
but it's also um obscured slightly so it's not as intensive maybe that cuts some of the light intensity as well. Well, which if we're like which specifically would you be talking about when you're going? So, Dan, could you go to the uh lobby layout on the upper
floor for that stack? So, let's take a look at the space. This is the upper floor, right? There's like So, there's a window in the stair tower. There's a two windows, one window in the stair tower, one just outside the stair tower and kind of in the lobby
here. And then this is the taller storefront glazing curtain wall. Okay. So So what what So in the stair lighting probably be on a sensor, right? Stair tower could be on a sensor. And what would be on
the on the that area right there? The elevator lobby. No, no, no. The the long three commercial. No, no, no. So So that implied sort of balcony space. That's a That's the That's where the triple is
that where the triple window where the triple windows are. Is that where the triple windows are? Yes. How is that getting lit or is that getting lit? That will be just the the corridor of the building will be lit. Um I think that needs to be lit 24 hours
that you know people need to be able to and and on that level you've got the access to the terrace. So, it's kind of a busy has the potential for being a busy um hallway lobby space, but I still don't get what's in that the
three windows. What's there? It's It's basically just a big hallway in front of the elevator and in front of the door to the roof terow. It's open to below. That's what that is. The three windows are open to below and then there are two windows next to it
that are on the actual facade. So this this is the the tall three window glazing. Oh, and you can look what that is, right? Okay. So what kind of lighting so that that's not bright, that's not offensive of people walking
by. What do we maybe frost that? What's that going to What's that going to look like? Cuz that's I mean it's a concern. No, it's a good question to say that you don't want anything bright that's just like a beacon. It's a good question. There's there's the front of the building. So, the look down where you
can look down below are those three windows in the center. Then the far right single window, Dan. That's in the stairwell. The far right single window. And that's that little nook to the stair. This This is the stair. This is just outside the stair. And this is I
think I understand your concern, right? if they're concerned, especially late at night, very bright, intense lighting, just shining out all the time. I think there's a lot of things that the applicant can do. There are things that can be done. Yes, totally can be done. We don't want to destroy the aesthetics,
you know, we don't want to say just spray paint that black. We don't all like but but we it's it's an important we could also look at an option for a shade that could be operated on a timer or a fritted glass something that would be you'll be able to come back you
understand what our concern is and also that I would also assume and I'm guessing other planning board members also might agree is that you don't want the lighting in all three of them to be all different because they're all together right you know you want it to be similar diversity
is Okay. But yeah, you don't want every different. So the three panels that are together, are they open to the hallway behind them? Okay. Yes. Oh, they're open to the hallway. So the lights need to be shielded and down. Yes. I mean, these
will be down lights in the in the corridor, right? Yeah. They're We have some wiggle room here cuz I look across the street here is is Adis, right? It's not houses, right? Across the street is the sun the sunrise. The windows are illuminated. It should be okay. As long as we're not getting something really
bright, headlights shining out. Yeah. Right. But you understand what our fine. So, we'll definitely talk to your professionals, come up with changes to try to As long as you're on this, go
to the Fourth Avenue lobby. Okay. So, that's just in the stairs. just in the stair tower. Yeah, it's the same concept. There's not nearly as much. There's not as much going on. The other side, right? Yeah. Just the stairs. The entry to the across the
street there's Yeah, where the doors see the doors are closed. Yeah, there they are. This is the house. In that view, right house, it's the bed used to be. And here's the Okay. Okay. Any other questions on uh Fifth
Avenue facade? No. Okay. Um so I should note that uh the area that's marked with this kind of cross-hatch pattern, the blue and the red, that is uh areas intended for public art um you
know to be coordinated with the city. Uh we have that on 5th. We have it along Memorial in several several spots and then uh we do not have it on fourth. We have the we have the garage entry happening
there. So there is opportunity for for public art on this project. We're also showing areas of uh along Memorial Drive where this is an open uh naturally ventilated garage. So we have a open air requirement that we need
to meet and these bright colored areas are intended to be again um this is a product called a flex facade where it's a screen that can be printed with a large scale graphic and that image could also be uh you know commissioned by an
artist in coordination with the city. So a long memorial we intend to have uh a lot of opportunity for public art. There's uh the three tenant spaces really we saw uh this on the corner of
fifth and then right in the center of the building along Memorial and then at the corner of um fourth Um, can you go to fourth the fourth the view from on the fourth far? What's that?
What's the garage looking like? Or is that someone else? The garage doors? Yeah, the garage doors are shown in the closed position here. Dan, can you just point out the That's all right. We're have technical mouse. Hold on. Hold on. All right. So,
let it catch up. There you go. So, these are the garage doors here closed. And what And what are you what are you proposing that that that material? Are those tinted? Is it tinted? Is it clear? Is it glass? talk about. Yeah, these are proposed as
solid metal doors with embossed panels. Okay, I it does say area. Sorry to interrupt, but area for public art on uh Oh, I'm sorry. I just read the label wrong. So, those louvers don't have those where you're saying they don't
have it on fourth louvered screen on fourth. These are louvered screens here, but not um not the same treatment as Beth that has. Now the flex facade is only happening on Memorial Drive. So that happens on these four panels,
right? One, two, three, and four. And then these areas, one, two, three, and four are just wall areas that could be dedicated for public art. And then on fifth, there was the one designation.
Fifth, there's the one next to the the lobby, right? And there's just no room on fourth. Is that No, it seems to be. Yeah, this was actually one of my thoughts. It is that the fourth avenue ground level facade is very I'm going to say not interactive. It is not interactive. Um and I know there will be
landscaping there, but all of those dark louvers. Um is there any reason we can't do that fabric screening there? That's fine. We'll insert the louvers and create a little depth of screen across. Yeah. Think something think of something to brighten up for. Thank you.
Yeah, I want to give you guys a lot of credit for the amount of dark ground level. Fantastic. Really fantastic. This and I know we're being picky, but this um I think calls for it, right? Or or even something on the gray area to the left of the garage because you have a a
nice size wall to the left there. Could be right here. Just think of something that that you can light. Yeah, we can look at that for sure. That would be great. What's the function of the louvers? The louver is just uh to create security
for that that garage. We we need the opening, but we don't want to just put a a fence there or something. So, it's an architectural louver. It is, but it's not it's not connected to a duct or anything like that. It's just for natural ventilation of the
garage. So, it's just an opening. It is ventilation, but it's not ducted in any way. secure. There's no equipment connected to it. It's not going to be blowing hot air or anything. It's just for natural movement of air throughout the garage. And then lastly, this is the uh
the rear elevator or west elevation. And uh this is where the building is open below and the the parking kind of extends beyond the footprint of the building. And uh the materials here we have uh some of
them are wrapping and then we have the hardy siding um above. Can I just ask a question here? So the um the front three sides three sides that face the street um all seem to have pretty consistent materials and it look very attractive from my in my opinion.
This back side you chose to in introduce three new colors. What was the the rationale for that? I think uh we were trying to give it some variety and then also um to reduce the amount of uh the the
brick and uh you know when you have a facade that's not really grounded to the the uh the ground level. You know, this is up on above the the parking podium. So you want to use a material that's
naturally kind of suited for that as opposed to having kind of floating brick. So that's why uh we switched it to the the lap siding here. And the the introduction of the color was just to give it some more variety. And these
colors are also um used in the courtyard. I don't have the the courtyard elevations that we want to see too. Yeah. Right in there. We'd want to see what the interior of the court looks like too in coloring. We can provide
that. Absolutely. Yeah, I agree that I the having having different colors on the back it just seems seems a little odd. So the material the the boards I I mean it makes sense. Everything you just said makes sense. And actually the colors when you look at it looks it looks but
this this is the regular the size not not the back side. This is Oh, this is I'm sorry. This back it looks very different. The back. That is the back right there. It looks different than Yeah. I'm not saying dislike it. It just It's different. Right there. Right there. What is the What? I'm sorry. Makes the back interest. So, the car
should be looking under the building to open. So, right. Yeah. X's are. Dan, don't forget there's a cornice there. There's There's a trim for the you know where the the siding starts. Go to the 3D one. Do you have the 3D one
in the back? Is helpful. Go down. Yeah. So right there. So if you zoom in there, see how that's the white strip is really looking under into that parking area. So the garage of course there be fences, right? And there there's a 6ft high
fence that will go around the property line here. Is there is that residence? Yes. This is an adjacent residence. Makes sense. Yeah. And obviously landscaping isn't on some of those images. Some images we put some
demonstrative landscaping. Even this isn't necessarily the finished landscaping plan for the 3D rendering process. You know, you get some plant life in there. But I don't know, Dan, has that been carefully matched to the landscaping plan? Uh, no. In in
spirit, this is what uh, you know, is shown on the the landscaping, but it's it's by no means, you know, 100% accurate to the plant type and color, things like that. And you could see the pergola there. That's right. That's your rooftop. Yeah, the the roof terrace, the
shared roof terrace is in this area. the the pergola. Um you've got the four levels of residential and then as I was saying earlier the the fifth level is set back far enough that in this view we
we can't even see that fifth level and also you can get a sense of the large setbacks that we have here. So there's a large uh dimension from the curb to the property line and then we have you know another 25 ft. So that's
all um paved lounge areas for you know if this is a a retail space that could be you know a restaurant of some sort or cafe and they could have an outdoor seating area here and uh there's also
some large landscape bio retention I don't I don't want to speak out of order because I will let the landscape or the civil engineer speak about it but large uh areas of landscaping on either side of the building here.
In fact, that's that's the uh this is the the view of uh that stair tower that we were talking about, the lounge and the elevator across fifth. Uh right, so we're kind of standing where the Sunset Mall is here. You see the projecting
balconies on Fifth Avenue, corner balconies, and again the shared roof area. This is a view from Memorial Drive looking from across the tracks. This is a bit of an elevated view. So, you do kind of see that fifth
floor from here, but if we were standing um you know on the sidewalk here, that also would kind of disappear. You wouldn't be able to see that upper floor. This here is just a view from uh kind of that outdoor space on on Fifth A looking
at the the retail and also the lobby area beyond. That's one of the art murals. Just a sample of what might be on. Right. Yeah. And these are all just kind of illustrative and not what would actually be there. That would all be coordinated
with with the city. close-up detail of the uh the lobby and the canopy. There would be some signage here. Um this is just pin mounted letters. I don't believe we're we're asking for these to be illuminated in any way. And
again, the signage here is all just kind of placeholder names and whatnot, but uh the intent of the the sign area and the dimensions. Uh I believe we're we're showing that and that's called out on our
elevations. And that's Memorial Drive. This is Memorial Drive. And this is where we have recess balconies. Um, you can see there's detail along the facade to have uh some recesses and and areas for shadow lines. Uh, again the public art area and
then um the flex facade kind of graphic printed screens as well. And that is all the images I have to share. So the renderings I I will say I I aesthetically I think this building is very very good looking. The renderings are all from Memorial and
Fifth. We don't see Fourth or really the the west side of it. So, I would ask when you come back if we can see the Fourth Avenue side and then kind of from the back because we're talking about those colors, if we can see a rendering maybe from like northwest or or southwest um with the fence because I
kind of I can't really picture what it looks like back there with the fence and the garage and then these other colors above it. Okay. And also something from the courtyard so you can see what the courtyard looks like in inside. Sure. Um
and this project's going through um energy star multif family or the equivalent I think I'm sorry for multif family. Yes. It's going through the program. It's that's the program that you're going through. the specific
program. I'll clarify that the next hearing if it's actually the energy approach. Can I ask some questions about um the ground level the kind of the flow on the ground level? Um so one of my questions is there's these three retail spaces
that don't seem to connect into the garage. So where where does their trash go? Yeah, it's a trash room for just residential. And then similarly, that trash room seems like it's only accessible from outside. Is there I'm just curious why
some of these ground flooror spaces aren't connected. Yeah, I think that the the retail spaces would have to take their trash out and then into the the trash room. But what do what do the uh what do the residents have? Residents have a trash shoot on
each floor. So there's a trash room. Is that on each floor? That's on each floor. All right. So it so it goes into that trash room. Goes into this trash room into the chute and down to a bin in the collection room on the ground floor.
But still the only way you can get into that trash room is from the exterior. The trash ground floor, the trash room, right, is only accessible from outside. Correct. Huh.
But a resident would never go in. No, they would use the chute. Right. Right. Yep. You would use the chute. They would dump into that room. So for purposes of trash removal, which where is comes out of that room? What have you is that fourth? That's on fourth. That's on
fourth. Mhm. Right next to the garage doors. Right next to the garage doors. We're going to we're going to modify that elevation slightly in accordance with your comments with coloring and massing and maybe mural or screening. So that whole elevation will change a bit. And then
while we're here, this elevator, is this a resident elevator or is this a service elevator? It's a resident elevator. There's two sets of elevators, two elevators. And then my last question about Yeah, they're both sized, you know, adequately for my last question about this ground
floor. So, the bike room. So, um, can you just walk me through the route? If I have a bike and I want to put my my bike in there, can I go out in the back of the garage? Is there is there a gate in the fence or am I going out the garage door? You're going out the garage door, but um, this is kind of an
open bike room, right? We just need kind of a wall to hang these these bike racks on. They're vertical bike racks. You kind of lift the bike up and hook it onto the wall and they h we hang them vertically. So there's space for 17 on
this wall, 15 here, 15 here. Um and you just you can't get out right there. You're parking garage or you don't inside the garage. Yeah, there's a fence here. So I mean we can look at adding access if that's desired. Right. You're just asking like this kind of
like what's the what what's a way for the person to get their bike out? Is it always out to fourth lobby? There's the lobby out there. You can just go out through the lobby and that's it. Because in my building I have to go through like four doors to get my bike out. So I never use my bike. Um but if there was
like a way for simpler egress with your bike, but I don't know what it you know maybe going out garage door actually is not difficult. So as long as there's a in the rain it's great. Um, Dan, can you speak a little bit to
um why there's there's no access from Memorial? I mean, that's kind of a plan requirement. You mean you mean like a like a like a a door like a lobby door or something like that? Is that what you're saying? The primary building entrance shall face Memorial Drive. And this is different than this is this
different from driveways. This is distinguished from driveway. So this is more non driveway entrance, right? So you have this entrance into this little retail space, but it doesn't go into the building.
Yeah. I I think this is, you know, we've had discussions with um the council and uh with with neighbors and there's been some back and forth. You know, we used to have the lobby, the pedestrian lobby on fourth
and we had an a drive that went from fourth and fifth. Um, this is kind of where we've landed. I can't say for sure why. I know that the parking entry, the the traffic engineer can certainly speak
on Yeah, I don't care about the driveway. I'm talking about the building entrance. It just seems like that seems like a you know that was a plan requirement. Is this shown on the uh the concept plan? Is this where it was? I don't I I don't know where it came from, but it's in the
it's in the plan. This is where it was on the concept plan. It the the concept plan and this plan are the same was what was shown to the So what was included in the redevelopment plan is this location for the the lobby. So, I understand your
point and we could look into it, but it was part of the layout that was shown to the council and ended up coming out of council as part of that. Um, and there are some entrances. Is it possible to adjust the commercial entrances?
Yeah, I was just curious if there was, you know, some sort of conversation or something where there was a diverted from that. Okay. Um, let's see. While we're on the ground level, can you tell us where the meters are going to be?
The meters. Do you know where the Can you tell us where the meters are going to be? Uh, the meters, I believe, are happening in this striped area here. In the striped area.
Yeah. Or on the outside wall. Gas meters. Yeah. Along this wall, right? And uh inside electric would be inside in this room. Okay. I mean, the gas meters are into the parking garage or out to Fifth
Avenue. Uh yeah, I mean, we'll have to coordinate that with the utility. Well, where where would you say? Well, where do you want it? proposing inside on this wall so that they're not on the on the exterior of the building, but I
know we often get push back from the utility that they want exterior meters. So, okay. So, hang on. So, where Yeah, I would just say as a condition, I would say if they are exterior, especially there, um I would I'd want to make a condition that there's uh some sort of external
screening required. Can you make an inquiry in the interim? We can. Yeah, they're going to be in your windows. If so, it can be addressed. Gas electric. I was going to ask that too. It's not
all electric then. For some reason, I thought this building was all electric. I don't think so. This is gas, right? This is gas. Uh or I'm not sure about that. I think I thought it was actually electric. Okay, we can confirm it. We'll confirm it. I remember that from an
earlier. Okay. Yeah. We'll we'll get clarification on the the meters, you know, for all the utilities, gas, if there is gas, electric or water as well.
What's the size square footage of the trash on the ground floor? Yeah. Is it enough to hold what's it supposed to hold? There's some rules as to how how how many days or how many weeks? I
think I had calculated that. I don't have the number in front of me. Did either one of you find that to be an issue when in your reports the size of the trash room? I think um my calculation is for
the residential um it complies but uh there's a question about whether there's adequate storage for the commercial. Okay. So there might not be adequate storage for commercial. So you're going to have to tell us what you're what's going to happen with that when you come back. And did you say the
size of the parking stalls? That's all um 18 by one more that's on their site. I think the site engineer can tell you exactly. I don't have it in front of me. 18 18 by9. It's on the site. So well
there are 18 by9. Yeah. Now this is not an architectural question but um we're talking about size of trash room. We need to know if it's public or private hauler which just so someone can tell us about that at some point. Right. We'll we'll have more detail on trash room size and uh
operations when we come back. And so um are are you okay, John? Oh yeah. Yeah. The So we're talking about that we have 131 parking spaces.
131 132. It's up for discussion as to what it really is. I'm sure I'm sure you'll be counting that up. So are we saying that there's so 126 and then whatever is beyond that are the 88
ones exception is that right? No but that's that counts into the 131. So that's six of them. So we have six ADA 126 worst case scenario is you're okay or you're one over. Okay. Um the other
thing I have a a couple of other things that are in Oh, you'd mentioned that there was like a drop off lift drop off area. Um when you first started going into the garage or you know some sort of ride share that's
noted in that was noted in the review letter. So So it's something that I know that we had looked at. Um I'll I'll let the site engineer talk more detail because obviously I'd be concerned about security. So, how does that work? I was going to say, how are they getting in and out? Yeah, exactly. How are they
getting in and out? That was something we asked for in redevelopment plan. We asked for a different building and it was the question was how do they get in and out? Yeah. And it didn't make much sense how they're getting in and out and why they would even how they would even know to do that first every time. That's a
discretionary item for the planning board. So, we'll come back with more info on what we would propose and how it would work or where the spaces would be. Is that something we It's not something that I'm It's not I'm not I'm not interested in creating a security order. It's going functionally. It's going out
of style. The Zip Car model and stuff like that. It's been steadily declining. I mean, who knows where things go in the future, but in the beginning when we it was easy for us to find people to provide those services. It's not as easy
anymore. They're not used as much. So, it's hard because they're really hard to Yeah. get to the whole concept of them, right? It's difficult to just put a spot out front with spotlights on it and say, "Stop here for your zip car." So, then they say, "Well, then I don't want to put a zip card there." I'll just say for
me, I'd rather you use those spots for residents so there's fewer people parking on the street. Exactly. Got a lot of Got a lot of Ubers running discretion. I If we were going to make a shared car space, I'd rather be outside anyway because more people, right? Absolutely. I wouldn't wait. I wouldn't spend your time trying to figure that
out. And it's definitely discretionary and we'll come back with more info, but it's right in the review plan. It's your discretion. We'll come back with more. We're come back. Nobody owns stock and zip now. And and can I assume that someone else will
be speaking about how many spaces outside we're going to we have today and how many we're going to lose or gain? I think you'll come back with that. Somebody else will come back. Okay, that's fine. Okay. Um, the other thing that I just had a question about is like
I I I appreciate the u the courtyard view that you're coming in. So, can I say that or can we say that there are no windowless bedrooms? No, there's um No, you can't say that. I can't say that. No, you can't. Okay. Can
I can I can we see where they are? Be wrong. I I want to be right. Th this is something that we're we're going to look at as well, right, with the the plan review and the changes that. So, we do have these these corner units. They're onebedroom. They're market rate units.
So, these aren't being assigned to affordables, but um this is one case where we have uh a smaller one bedroom unit. There's a living space on the corner with a window. And then there would be a a bedroom, private bedroom with a transom window here so that you
could have, you know, light. And uh we'll have a transfer grill and there could be air movement. But again, if if this is something that is not one window, no window in the bedroom. No, that's why I just like to know the alternative would be we can turn this into a studio. That's all there's now.
It's just proposed that there's a few where the bedroom doesn't have a window. If we could just find out like how many are we talking about and do you have like let's say now you said that there was a transom which is great. And then how does the air move because there has to be some sort of ventilation. Okay. So tell us that.
Sorry, cuz we've had that in other, right? But this is inclusionary development. So, it makes it hard for under the U-Hack rules for uh prospective tenants to be placed in this
building or be able to rent in this building. When those units are in the building, they um like if if there's a regular affordable unit that's a normal size that they can't uh needs repair or
something, they have nowhere else to go in a comparable unit because that that bedroom doesn't have a window. Okay. And that's so there's it's an equity thing. Um but in in an inclusionary development it makes it complicated because now
there's um if they have to do mechanized ventilation they have to do something utility cost that doesn't get properly adjusted across the regional cost for affordable units. It's a complicated thing in uh hack anyway. But does that
get absolved if these are not affordable units? No. Oh because it's an inclusionary building. Right. So, so can you tell us that what has to be done to these these partic those particular units and I
don't think that there are many of them what legally has to be done so that we so that they're legal bedrooms y that we could talk to just tell us what tell just we want them to be right we want we don't want a windowless bedroom with no
ventilation and you know understood right there's there's a requirement from the building code for a certain open area so that air can transfer through throughout the unit. That's all I'm asking for for light and ventilation and it's it's not mechanical ventilation
necessarily, but just that the the air can move throughout the space. Just tell us that's what that's what we want to have making it comfortable. So So right now there are six one-bedroom units in the building. There's six six of those. Okay. So, you just tell us what are you going to do with those six units that
that it's legal and it's comfortable for someone to live there. There's one four and there's one that has two. Okay. Okay. Six. Okay. And Donna, if they're not mechanically ventilated, does that absolve this? I I I can't.
So, my office's architectural fair. That's department have an interpretation of the building code that differs from some other people's interpretation of the building code. I'm not getting into it. Okay. So that's just that's just a takeback. Yes, we've got a takeback. We we've had discussions
on that issue and okay, not specifically with air but with those regulations and the aortionment of the we just might want to make make it right. Whatever it is, we want to make it right. But to end on because the planner can't speak to that. I understand it's a challenge but I mean I understand that what the
challenge is but meaning like that's part of it but we've also um again my company's uh reading of the rag right differs from other companies reading of the rag. Yeah. And I I can't speak to you know who's who's writer or less
right. No I understand that. But who guys who can give guidance to the board? Unfortunately, it's like you got to go to the construction official with the final, you know. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's something that we do fairly often, right? That we do it on other applications and we ask for certain
things to be done. What What do you mean do meaning there are other applications that we've had where there are windowless bedrooms, right? I'm saying the only other development units have to have windows, right? But that's part of what's causing the complication because
of the nature of the building. So I mean it's really complicated but I'm saying who can get who are if it can't be Donna for that reason which I understand there's no other we just have to figure it out. Yeah it sounds you know how like sometimes flood stuff we can't we don't know what the DA is the D is going to
say so we say they have to get approval from the D. I think we should just make a condition they have to be approved by and we can bring it affordable housing. Okay. We can bring more information to shed more light on the issue. May maybe there's still a question, but we could
get you much closer to the the issue in the fact. Okay, we have anything else from you? No. Uh, all right. So, let me just quickly Yeah, let's go with let's go let's go to the let's go to the report. Um, so if you
could uh when you do your revisions give me a calculation on the what are we calling it? Uh transparent area. um on Memorial Drive. Uh I guess we don't have quite as much at least based
on my calculation. So if you could just um for the whole elevation or just the first floor the whole it is the ground floor like that 60% of the ground floor facade
between 3 and 10 ft above the grade right is required to be transparent. I saw that comment. Are we look are we looking at a particular item on your report or is it something else from your notes? No, no. Um, it's item 32B. Okay. And I would just ask you to do
that calculation for what's transparent and what's and what's art or screen because that requires an exception. I mean, I give you more that's how you make the decision, right? What's the trade-off? Is it Yeah. So, if you can tell us the percentage of what's
transparent and what's um aren't. Okay, that would be helpful. Um blah blah blah blah blah was create texture and shadow. Um so, I believe you gave us adequate testimony for for E.
Uh and the canopies, are they going to have a matte finish? They can have a matte finish. Tell us just tell us what you want to do. What can it be? Over the over the entrances, there's that overhang and um the
pergola, I guess. Just uh whatever metal finishes. Make sure the plans uh clarify. Comply. Yeah, they'll have a matte finish. Complies. You're not doing that. talked about the rooftop screening. You're going to come back with some more
details about the courtyard design. That's not you. That's not you. That's not you. That's not you. Parking area. So, thank you for parsing out the uh the architectural comments though, by the way. Sorry about that. But thank you. Quite all right.
Thank you for your report. It's helpful. I'm sorry. the report you point out in New York that design exceptions on co parking area southwest corner. Yeah. Uh I think I want parking testimony before I Okay. Okay. All right. Just want to
make sure cover signs. So we touched on that briefly. Uh where you said you were going to do those pinmounted letters uh to identify the building. Yeah. So, we do have two kind of typical signage
details on the elevation. So, the the canopy signs are non- illuminated and then we do have some internally illuminated channel letters. So, okay. So, over the garage, I think you have a sign.
Fourth. Yeah. Fourth. Yeah. So, is that also going to be a building identification or is that going to be more of a garage? do not enter whatever uh directional. Yeah. So then that should not be that way.
Okay. Uh individual. Um and then what's going on on Fifth Avenue? Which number are we on? I think 10 10.2 or 10.3. Is that right? 10.2. 10.2. So, you've got a a commercial sign for
the storefront. Oh, is that going to have two signs? One on the memorial side and one on the Fifth Avenue and same thing with the Fourth Avenue one. Are they going to have Yes. Two signs? That makes sense. Yes. The corner tenants have two signs.
Makes sense. Uh Donna, is there anything in in the redevelopment plan about retail signage needs to have some sort of consistency or cohesive plan? No, no, that I think that's in the um in
the CBD only. Um, hang on. I'm just uh I'm trying to skim this really quick. So, you have two signs for the corner tenants, but I think you're only allowed to have one. Yeah, they have a 16T and 20 square foot. So, they're two different sizes. I
didn't know it was mislab. I don't I don't mean I think the intent was to have the building mounted illuminated sign on Memorial and then the pinmounted canopy mounted sign. So they are limited to you have 120 foot square foot 116
yeah right now I'm sure so those are going to need relief so we would certainly be willing to discuss that with the board that's the relief we propose to request but obviously we're always open to discussion on that I think it's important like we're doing now to just
clarify what's proposed what's not proposed what needs relief what doesn't right Um, yeah. I mean, that's Yeah, I know in our in our other districts, the ordinance allows, you know, for if you have two sides, you get a sign on each side, but this redevelopment plan
doesn't say that. Yeah. I was also just going to give my opinion, right? We when we did the redevelopment plan, we specifically ask for retail on the corners to activate the corners. So, having a side on each side, I think it makes perfect sense. Makes sense for the relief. Well, or can one of them be a projecting sign rather than a
wall-mounted sign? Cuz I think that's the other the other thing. This does allows for converting one to a a projecting sign. So, you know, again, that's more pedestrian oriented scale. So, maybe that's on the Fourth Avenue or
Well, it should be on Fourth and Fifth. And it helps our tenants maintain viability and attract, right? We want that. There's there's obviously a give and a take. You know, we have to be within certain, you know, it has to be reason. Absolutely. Does that take care of everything,
Donna, on your report for this for this witness? Well, we miss it. So, hang on. So, so that's the commercial sign. So, then you have the building sign.
Okay. Oh, and then is there a building address sign? We would certainly make sure some numbers have on each facade depending on how it's going to be numbered. We'll update the plans to show that. We want people to be for emergency services and things to know what building number
you're at and things like that. Um, and I guess just on the affordable stuff. Uh, so this is a rental uh building, not for sale units. Family units, not restricted by age. It's definitely family units. Yes, it's rental. Yep.
Um, okay. Okay, there we go. All right. So, as far as the architectural um comments, I think that's that's the meat of it. and and we understand there's a few comments there that are for the civil engineer. We're not going
to ignore those even though we're not really talking about them with this witness. We will address those in the resubmission and we appreciate you helping us work through the architectural issues at this point. Sure. But we're not going to architecture from your from your report. Um building mounted lighting. I don't I
don't know we're not talking about lumens or anything right now, but um are there going to be building mounted fixtures? Uh, I think we're required to have some illumination at the entries and over doors. We'll make sure that the the lighting plan from the civil
engineer fixtures. We need the fixtures and cut sheets and we'll have all the information, right? Because you have some residents that are not that far away. We want to make sure especially uh on the underneath parking, what's going to happen there? Because you're close to some residents. Yes.
There's there's a number of comments in the report about provide lighting plans, lighting levels, how you're going to light the garage, how it's going to be controlled. The site engineer is the one who's in charge of the lighting plan. Yeah. So, yeah. So, that's in there. They've been warned they need to coordinate both the building and the
site. Yes. Yeah. I think there's also something regarding that um open garage. Mhm. Open parking. Open parking area. Maybe this is for the the civil engineer. Yes, that's all. He's not going near the outdoor parking area.
Yes, we will talk about that also for sure. I I know next time we're going to talk about the trash room storage, but just looking at Donna's report 9.3, uh the plan indicates 325 ft of storage
in the garage area and then take it all the other floors. There's a total of 1,05 ft. I didn't know we're going to use the other floors to store garbage in. I thought I was going to go down the street, not sit there, go down the street a week later. And then it
says 30 571.8 requires at least 12 ft of storage area provided per dwelling unit. 126 dwelling units times 12 would need,512 square ft, not 1,000. Oh, did I
not? What number? Oh, 9.3. You were saying 9.3. And you have 1,05 square ft in there. And you're saying that's that's that's what I calculated between all the rooms. Oh. Oh, yeah. That's just what's there.
But should the third or fourth floor storage room that goes down the shoot be part of the storage area to go outside? I don't know. But no matter what 126 * 12 is a lot more than,000 square ft.
Yeah, understood. We're going to we'll do the we'll put the calculations on there, redo the calculations and provide testimony regarding how we think it would work. Thank you. So that's where you can look at that. Uh everything uh okay with you Donna with what everything we spoke about that
was answered and then you'll then we'll come back with some modifications and see what complies and what doesn't. Absolutely. What about you Sam? Are we uh is there anything architecturally that you're impacted by or No, in my letter it was only the signage. Your signage and that was it.
Okay. Anything else from I've got a question. Sure. Uh, I understand you got a five-story building, but if you look at the neighborhood, this building is such a
massive building in that area. What can you do to soften the impact of that building? the closest buildings you have in that area that anywhere approaches are the high school which is a couple of
blocks north and you have the fire house which is half miles south. Is there anything you can do to soften the image of that massive building? I don't expect you to answer that
question, Matt. I I can speak to what we we have done to to soften it. Um to this the point that we have um and that has a lot to do with the large setbacks on fourth and fifth and then also the large
setback on the fifth floor. Um, so that as you you look at this uh view right here, this looks like a four-story building and not necessarily five except where the the lobby pops up there. So I think that we we have done what what we
can to to minimize the the height impact of of that fifth floor break up the massing you have you provide right uh and to keep the scale of the of the building uh down in a way where we're we're recessing those balconies and
we're changing materials and uh trying to kind of create a rhythm on that facade so it doesn't seem like one sheer wall um to give it a feel of something that you know is appropriate for for
Memorial Drive. And as you said, we'll be back, you know, we're going to be back with more testimony on this. So that will provide I'd like to see if there's something else that you could do to kind of hide
the fact that this is such a massive building in comparison to if you look on either side of it, the biggest building is two stories. And you know, uh just just put some thought
into it to see if you have any ideas. uh possibly and I I don't want to throw this out completely, but maybe if you had a couple of larger trees and maybe uh
uh Lombardi poppplers that are uh very tall and right um you know don't take up a lot of room, don't have a lot of uh drips aligned. We could definitely talk to your
landscape specialists about that. I know sometimes my professionals say this is the perfect tree and then the municipal professionals say no no it's going to die here. So yes, we would make sure that whatever species we could look for something that would be more appropriate
to do that to do that type of I just throw that out. That's what I did and I I'd like to see what was the species you mentioned? It's a popppler uh and it grows in in a very tall uh thin I think
it's Lombardi popppler if I remember correctly and it may not be appropriate for this location. Well, we can look into it the soil types and what we have there and what it will do the sidewalks or if it works well with sidewalks. We could certainly give you testimony on that when we return. But certainly it's
not a full tree, you know, it's uh width, but it is quite tall. And maybe that's not the answer. I just want to follow up on what Jim said. So, I know this building, you know, a good portion of it is five
stories tall. Um, can you tell us what if anything is is taller that goes above the roof line of the fifth story? Besides the mechanical HVAC's, is there an elevator bulkhead or stairwell bulkheads that pop up higher? So the the elevator and the stair
bulkheads are kind of contained within that popped up roof that happens at the the lobby area. So here we're looking at um Fifth Avenue and then Fourth. So the elevator um I think see it on the other
side. You can see the pops up tiny bit right there. Right. Um right there. Yeah. So yeah, this is a good view where that lobby space that mass is right adjacent to the the typical fifth floor. So there is a
little step up happening there. I think we go from like 59 to 63 ft. So it's 4T and that was blended into an architectural element to try to break up the roof line and break up the massing. So it was kind of a dual purpose. We have to pop up here but let's use that
to our advantage. What we see so what we see in the rendering of of Fifth Avenue is as tall as it goes. I I just know there's some buildings in the waterfront. We end up with these enormous bulkheads that be cool up there. Yeah. Yeah. We don't intend to put any mechanical equipment or anything
on top of these already taller pieces that would all be on the the areas that are set back. Um, is there potential for any backup generators to be on site?
I don't anticipate it. Um, I don't think it would be required. Sorry. Right. That's true. It would depend on uh hydraulic calculations. Hydraulic calculations for the fire at this time. If the fire system required something like that, we would have to
incorporate it within the footprint here and explain that. Talk about noise, talk about exercising, talk about what type of fuel source, but right now we don't anticipate one. Any other questions from the planning board members of this witness? I I I do know I
will mention I do know that there was discussions a lot of discussions. I think the um the redevelopment plan doesn't allow a driveway on Memorial. So now the discussion becomes is fourth better, is fifth better, is both better. Our traffic expert who's not here
tonight has looked at it, looked at the safety aspects of all of it, and we felt that this layout was the best. However, we're very interested to know if the planning board has any comments on that, thoughts on that, because obviously we want to be guided by your input. And if
the board's not ready to discuss that in any more detail now, that's fine. Also, we'll have our civil engineer. We'll have our traffic here next time. It's up, you know, I didn't know if there's any thoughts. I think a lot of thoughts, but I'd rather read your report
and then give you my thoughts. Okay, understood. Any other questions from the planning board members? Um, it's not really a question. There's a well some I don't know what but when and when you come back and you talk about the courtyard
cuz you the landscape this the engineer will do that or you or the landscape uh what's what question about the courtyard. Well, it's not a question. It's more I know it's been commented there'll be more information provided next time about the courtyard. So, I don't know what what we're asking for.
Well, I I know that I was interested to see what what it would even look like. What what would the sides of them look like? Cuz we were looking at to see what the west side of the building looked like and did it look the same. We'll provide the elevation sort of rendering. See what that's going to be. Oh, so and
then um but the treatment that's here is what's planned to be here which is paving and movable. paving and movable uh you know outdoor furniture you know kind of like what you see in that you know tables and chairs um
freestanding like outdoor kitchen or um or any like shade structures the reason I'm asking what I'm trying to get to is just if I cuz I'm really glad there is outdoor usable space but I think that space might be really challenging I mean in terms of use just because heat and
shade all the things that go on in like with cuz you have four stories of surrounding right when you're in there. So just like how that space would be. I just didn't know what like what thinking had gone in in terms of like yeah just shade or anything like that for that space. I I think we'll provide a
rendering of that interior space as well. We should in addition to the elevation what the landscaping would look like there. Mhm. Uh that would be helpful. Well, I don't think there's I don't think there's a plan for I don't think there's intended to be landscaping. If there is you should
We should see it, right? Or if there isn't a zip line on the board going down. Nobody's asked about those real big chess pieces. Somebody ask the real big chess piece.
Anything else? Any other questions from the planning board members? Any questions from the professionals of this witness? Until next time. Okay. Any questions from the public of this witness of what was
discussed today? All right, come on up. Okay, my name is Frank Cuchinado, 2096th Avenue, and uh I apologize. I haven't been to any of the previous meetings from this uh regarding this project, but I was concerned about the parking. Uh
from what I understand, parking requirements are generally 1.5 per dwelling unit. So uh uh just how is it that we get with less and I apologize that I didn't attend other meetings but I I just wanted to understand that this
redevelopment plan or if you'd like to we didn't have testimony on the number of parking spaces. We just had the number. We didn't say what the requirement was. And we are going to have the uh who's going to discuss parking? I think the uh either the traffic engineer or the the civil
engineer could answer that question better than I could as far as the required number and Okay. usage. They'll be they'll be coming back with that in the next get together. Okay. Okay. As to what's required, what's not
required and all that. Yes. Next. Hi, good evening. Eric Gallipo, 908 Fth Avenue, well known to most of you, I believe. Um, I do have some questions and sort of clarifications that I would like to ask
about. Um, first, you mentioned there will be no rooftop mechanicals. Is that correct? No, there's there are going to be rooftop mechanical. There are going to be rooftop mechanical above the fifth floor. Um, is it possible for
you to indicate the area of those on your plans in future? Because they're lined up. Just speaking. Uh, is it possible for you to indicate the locations of those rooftop mechanicals in your future plans? They're right here. They're shown on the the roof plan. Zoom in a little. These square
boxes. So, the the shaded area indicates kind of what we've designated as a mechanical equipment zone. Which shaded area around the perimeter? Dark gray. The loop here, the dark gray. And you see the little boxes kind of
diagrammatically showing the mechanical units. Uh if in your future uh testimony, can you provide the uh vertical height approximately of each of those? Yes. So we we said that we would do a
line of sight diagram showing a view from from the sidewalk. uh on the opposite side of the rightway indicating those on your elevations may also be helpful. Correct. We'll we'll have more information on the the unit locations
and screening if if we find that it's required based on the line of sight diagram. Will you be applying a noise standard to understand the sound that those units would project and the distance from which they can be heard from at the building uh from adjacent
properties? Um, I don't know that I could testify to the the noise of the mechanical units. Are they residential units? They're they're residential condensing units. So, similar to what you have in your backyard. They're set back fairly um
good distance from any property lines. We've placed them on the uppermost roof and set them as far back as uh is okay feasible. Right. We need a 10ft dimension from the edge of the building. But um
if I'm reading this sort of correctly, um those units sit at least 20 ft from the edge of the rear property line facing uh this I guess it would be the west. Is that correct? I'm just kind of ballparking it.
I can I can I can dimension this plan. That would be helpful. Hotel. I think it's more than 20 seats though. simply just indicating them on elevations. Yeah, it looks like almost 30. Are the units? 24 to the building to the primary. Yeah.
Imagine. So, we're at least 25 ft from the property line to the face of the building. Mhm. So, you're looking at least 50 ft until Yeah. Okay. We're
um uh would you investigate the quietest possible units, please? Um, so I do want to ask about um I want to sort of go in an organized fashion. I have a few quite a few questions here. Um, if we could talk
about your lighting plans, will you be coordinating your architectural elevations to show the specific locations of the fixtures that are proposed as well as the lighting levels from the building line to the property
line? Yes, we'll have updated lighting information that the civil engineer will testify and you will be our expectation. Yeah, you will indicate the fixture locations on all four facades, right? We'll have a coordinated lighting plan.
Thank you. Um, can you go to your ground floor plan? Can you describe to me the um extent of the enclosure of the bike area? So the excuse me the bike area is Can
you zoom in further? I'm sorry to Yeah. Right. The these are solid walls, right? It's essentially creating a room. This is an open ah doorway. There's no door here. It's just kind of open into the bike room. And then we have a wall area
to hang these uh wall-mounted bike racks. Mhm. Okay. So, it is primarily enclosed with an opening about four feet on the uh north and uh south and east side of
the Okay. Got it. Um currently, um how are you proposing access to that space from the general building? Yes. So, right now the testimony was those people would access out into the underground garage. There's been a request for us to
consider maybe making it easier and maybe making a second exit. So, that's something we're going to look at because the planning board's requested that. We haven't decided that yet or looked at the feasibility, but that was a request from the board. Um, yeah. Um, would you
consider investigating the shortest possible distance from the bike room to the sidewalk so as not to create a long ciruitous route through the through the buffered area into to the sidewalk? I mean, we'd have to Yeah, we take it
there's all constraints. There's other constraints that all come into play, but that would certainly be Yes, we would appreciate you. Would you investigate the shortest possible route? Yes. um trash room. Um if you don't
mind. So I'm correct that the only current entrance to the trash room is from the exterior of the building. Yes. Have you considered allowing your commercial tenants to have interior access through the garage to the trash
room to avoid schleing, for lack of a better term? That's something that we're going to look at. Yes. Yeah. Um, I would also suggest uh or ask that you consider your residential um tenants to have similar interior access, reserving
exterior access for service and getting the trash to the street. Correct. We're going to look at that. Yeah. H uh this may be landscape, but the sidewalk ends at the the trash
access ends at the sidewalk, but your trash needs to get all the way to the curb. Have you considered an apron that would lead to a place where your trash could be conveniently left for pickup at the curb?
Yeah, I the site engineer can I'm sure. Yes. Uh, you'll also need to coordinate that with the city since it's on public property. Um, not sure that there was a response about the discrepancy between the
primary building entrance on Memorial Drive, but the plans being consistent with the concept plans. What is the official line here?
Well, it's certainly something that we're going to continue to testify on the next year. I'll do Can I answer from here? Are you under oath? Application. Yeah. My understanding that
the entrance is where it was proposed to do. We went through it all and if something says something different in writing, there's a mistake, potentially a typo. My understanding is the entrance is where it was planned to be approved to be and we have no intentions of changing anything or further
investigating anything unless there's a mistake of something that I'm aware of. Understood. Just wanted to to make sure that we were clear that there is a discrepancy and somewhere a determination needs to be made. Um, can we go to the area where you said
the gas meters were proposed? I would like to um ask that whatever the decision of the Oh, well, first of all, you need to determine if the building is electric only or gas. If you are in fact storing
or um locating gas meters in this location, would you consider exterior screening? I'm only reinforcing what um board member Goon or Vice Chair Gonan mentioned. We got that comment. Yes, we're going to address that. We got
Okay. Um so then uh can you go to your uh west elevation? Yeah. Um, can you zoom in on the open area above the garage as you provide um lighting
locations in your elevations? Will you specify the down lighting from the garage and consider that you may need to provide some vertical shielding at the building face rather than just inside
the garage? There is no um am I correct that there is no um like if I you have to go back to your ground floor plan. Sorry to make you jump around here. There is just a small portion of the cars parking along the rear where
they're they poke out past the building line. That's correct. Right. And so providing some 1 ft of vertical screening above 9 ft or whatever it is. Um yeah, we provide more detail on that.
There is a drop beam that happens at the mirror, but Okay. Yeah. Just I'm just want to be clear that the screening and the light levels from the garage should be considered in your overall lighting plan. Yeah. And be additive to what's
being provided on the exterior. Right. So yeah. Okay. Um so related to um there are some elements here on your architectural concept plans that are not
coordinated to the civil plans around the presence of bumpouts at fourth and fifth. um along Memorial. So, you're indicating pedestrian bumpouts here. I just want the plans to be coordinated so we can be sure. Oh, the the curb
bumpout. Be sure that that's in line with the civil rights, right? Um so, well, nobody's testified to civil, so we can't really ask any questions there. Um the louver system can you go to you know just a
typical detail of your louver system? Uh, have you considered that the louvers could be an element of your public art either through a creative painting pattern or, you know, custom cut panels rather than simple straight
louvers? Yeah, we we said that we're going to look at um this elevation. We're going to provide more information for this elevation and uh we'll look at ways to incorporate public art on this as well. and you'll still need to maintain the natural ventilation. Right.
So then finally the on the Fourth Avenue elevation here um is the the open area in the rear of the building or on the west side where that looks into the garage. I understand there will be landscape screening. There will be a
fence that comes in front of that area as well. Landscaping. Okay. Landscaping. Um well if that Okay. It it right. We haven't had sight testimony. Right. Right. Understood.
Um Okay. I would also urge you to consider um or would you consider I have to phrase it like a question. Would you consider an architectural treatment of that piece of the facade that is more
harmonious with the rest of the facade as well as potential for some sort of, you know, more creative expression of the of the stair tower on this side? Yeah, we're going to reook at the whole the whole 4th Avenue facade was
to Okay, thank you. Hi, David Vidola, 908 Fth Avenue. Um, Eric and I are the little house that you've been seeing next to the building. Just to clarify, that's our home. Um, so when cars, if I could see the parking uh
area again, the first floor. So when cars pull into the west end, every time they pull into there, the lights are going to be shining directly onto our property. Um, and also
when they pull around the back and drive to the back of the parking spaces, they will be pointing at us. So, we're hoping that with proper landscaping and
hopefully the fence that that will sort of minimize that. Um, so we're we we look forward to seeing the landscaping that's happening there. And solid fence there, too. What the land? A sixoot.
Yeah, there'll be a solid fence. Yeah. But when those cars are pulling in and out, you're still going to have lights. It doesn't block every bit. We're hoping the landscape and we'll work with that, too. Um there's a 10T
buffer um of between the end the parking space and the property line. Why doesn't that 10-ft buffer continue around the corner and and
across the west side of the property also? That's really a civil engineering question. Like this witness didn't design that. So my next witness designed that it would answer that question
better. Gotcha. He'll be at the next. Okay. Thank you. Okay. All right. We So, this witness is uh Well, he'll be back. He'll be back. We know he'll be back. Fly him back again.
He flew in tonight. He'll fly in again. The other guy. Yeah. Other Dan's flying. He's much more Miami over there. So, um we we um we would like to get our revised plans in. We think maybe we
would get those submitted by the our goal is to have them submitted by the 28th 28th of of April. Okay. And I don't know if it was possible. We would like to be adjourned to the ne a next meeting. Um and have notice carried I
don't know if May 19th is that a hearing date. I don't know if that possible. Remember that that with all anything that's resubmitted they have to go through and get reports. Reports have to be updated. So, we have we have a whole process. So, let's say that if you do
get them in by the the 28th of April, the your closest shot is this is is June 16th. Okay. Not that that's the first meeting. Sorry. Go ahead. Is it? It did. According to what I see, it's open. This the first one that's open. Are you
looking at Oh, May 19th. Do we have something scheduled for May 19th? But wait, so hold on. We have the views coming back. No, we we already have plans. Okay. So, if we if unless my schedule's incorrect, if I'm looking
at the submission has to come in on the 28th. Mhm. Right. That's right here. But, um because it's a revision, it's a revision, you don't need as much time. That's correct. So is that in
theory, Donna? Yeah. If they said by April 28th, yes, then we would give you our report the week before, which is the 12th or the 19th. All right. So So here's a question. Okay. Unless there's
no to the applicant. I don't know what's going on with the schedule. No, no, the schedule would work, but if the applicant Okay. All right. We have a question for you. So, so that if you can get us the information by the 28th, Donna can get you a report by
you said what? The 12th. May 12th. Okay. May 12th. So, if we get you in here on the 19th, is that enough time for you to react? Is 7 days enough time? Well, and I also want to make sure that they can make the That's what I'm saying.
because our next availability after the 19th is June 16th. That's our next availability. June 16th. So, okay. So, June 16th. June 16th. Then we'll put you in for June 16th. We can't
do May 19th. And that will give you that will give the reports enough time, but you're still looking to get it to us by the 28th. Well, if we're gonna if we're going to not have the hearing until June 16th, we we would probably use more time to refine our resubmission. Okay. So
then Marie, do we go we do we go with May 12th for the submission? May 19th. The 19th. Okay. Okay. So So by May 19th, we need your reports. We need the revisions by May 19th. Got it. For us to hit the June 16th presentation date.
June 16th hearing. Yes. All right. Can I get a motion to to move this application without notice to June 16th? Wait a minute. If I may, do you consent to any extension of time within which we need
to act under the MLU until that hearing date of uh June 16th? Can't we consent to that extension of time? Yes. Okay. Can I get a motion to move? Second. Okay. James Vano. Yes. Councilwoman
Clayton, yes. Jim Henry, yes. Mayor Moore, yes. Jen Ser, yes. Kathy Mclalen, yes. Vice Chair Gunnan, yes. Chairwoman Kurszac, yes. Okay. Carry. Motion. Motion to adjurnn.
Second. Second. All in favor? None. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.