Welcome everyone. Today is Tuesday, October 14th, 2025, and this is a regular meeting of the city of Asbury Park Zoning Board of Adjustment. Chairman Abalone, will you please call this meeting to order? I'd be happy to. This meeting is being held in compliance with the Open Public
Meetings Act, Chapter 231, Public Law 1975. Adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the Coaster and Asbury Park Press by publication of the annual meeting notice and posted on municipal Bolton board and municipal website. All notices are on file with the board secretary. Official action may
be taken on the following matters before this board and this meeting is being recorded by APV and I ask everyone with a cell phone to please mute it for the duration of this meeting. Roll call. [Music] Wendy Glassman is recused for the first
application. Daniel Harris here. Russell Lewis here. Jill Potter is recused from both applications. Natalie Pasarini here. JJ Hall here. Vice Chair Scully is recused from the first application and Chairman Abalone here.
All right, we have a little bit of housekeeping at first. Um the first resolution will hold off until John is with us. Uh, I make a motion to approve the resolution to adopt the resolution of 1206 Dunl Street.
Um, I'll second if I'm eligible. You are? Okay. Okay. And, uh, go. Uh, Russell Lewis, yes. Daniel Harris, yes.
Natalie Paserini, yes. JJ Hall, yes. And Chairman Avalon, yes. I need a motion for 3018 as I'm recused. Make a motion to approve 3018. I'll second.
Okay. Uh Daniel Harris, yes. Natalie Paserini, yes. JJ Hall, okay, we're going to move on to the minutes. Okay. Um, so can I do the minutes all at once, Jack, or do I have to do them
individually? Unless anybody has any questions about any of them, you can collectively. All right. So, I make a motion to approve all the minutes of the various meetings from January through May. I'll second. Does anybody have any questions or
comments about any of them? I do have one um on the minutes for March 11th. Um just on the one comment and I believe was it the last comment on the minutes if we could amend intent was born out of
hardship during co um I I don't believe I mentioned that was it was just that that one okay I'll double check on that one okay got it okay roll call
Daniel Harris Yes. Russell Lewis. Yes. Natalie Pasarini. Yes. JJ Hall. Yes. Chairman Avalone. Yes. All right. First application is up is 97 Sunset Drive. Uh, Mrs. Torres and Ms.
Gman. Mr. Chairman, I've looked at the notices for this application in public form. We have jurisdiction to proceed. Thank you, Mr. Serbico and Mr. Chromemer. Good evening, board members, Mr.
Chairman, and board members. Uh, my name is Carlton Cromer. I'm the attorney for the applicants, Miss Grossman and Mrs. Torres, who own a property that is on Sunset Drive. The back of the property faces Deal Lake.
The front of the property faces Sunset Drive. The applicant is looking to build a garage on their property. The garage is a small onecar garage.
The garage is going to fit within the character of the neighborhood. Other properties in this neighborhood have a similarly located garage. The location of the garage is toward the
front of the house to the side. This is really the only location where a garage can fit. The property is small. It's undersized. Um it also is not a rectangular shape.
It's a fan shape. um meaning that it's narrow towards the street and then fans out towards the um the lake side. Um, so the property has some unique characteristics that other properties Let's get let's get into the substance
of the application. Before I Before you roll the testimony, I I sometimes like to have two roles, but so that's the summary of it. We're looking to put a garage. First witness
that I'm going to call is Miss Gman, one of the applicants. Um, please raise your hands. You swear affirm testimony about this map. [Applause] I do. Please state your name for the record and spell it.
Jean Gman. J E A N. Last name Gman. G R O S M A N. Thank you. Uh, Donna Miller, board planner. Okay. Miss Gman, are you an owner of the property on Sunset? Yes. And what's the address? Nine Sunset Drive.
How long have you lived there? Three years. Are you familiar with the neighborhood since you lived there for three years? Yes. Let's talk about the property. Uh what faces the back side of the property? The lake. Okay. And I deal
and the front side faces Sunset Drive. Correct. That's correct. Is the shape of the property narrow? Yes, it's wider in the front on Sunset Drive and then goes narrow to the back uh on Deal Lake. And would you say that that's an irregular shaped property?
I do. The location of the house relative to the right boundary line. Do you know the space between the left side of the house, excuse me, the right side of the house and the boundary line?
Yeah, the side porch is uh 4T from the uh the neighbor to the right of us, the boundary line. The boundary line. And do you see that kind of setback throughout the um street? Your neighbors have similar setbacks.
We have no setback on the other side of the house on the left side. So he asked about the rest of the street. The rest of the street is the same. If you have that knowledge, if you don't have I have the knowledge. Every every house because the street is not straight. It's
on a curvature. So, every lot is uh isight is not is tight and not regular. They're all irregular lots. Is there currently a garage on the property? No. Was there a garage on the property at some point?
Yes. Okay. Is the location that you're proposing to put the garage the same location where the garage was previously? Yes. And when you purchased the property, was there a garage? No,
I'm sorry. Um, have you chosen a location for the garage? Yes. Have you considered other locations on the property for the garage?
There's no other location the garage would fit uh in adjacent to the curb cut for the driveway. Is there any space to put the garage in the back? No. Is there any space to put the garage at either side of the home? No.
Are you looking to locate the garage in the front of the home? Yes. Okay. And what side of the home or what side of the property are you looking to locate the garage? It'll be on the right side when you're facing from Sunset Drive. And will the garage align with the
existing home? Existing porch. Yeah, it's between the front porch and the side porch. Um, the distance between the porch and the boundary line is 4 feet. Correct.
The side the current side porch. And will the distance between the proposed garage and the boundary line be 4 feet too? Yes. So, will the garage align with the existing footprint of the home on the side? Yes.
Okay. Are there other homes on Sunset Drive that you've noticed that also have their garage in the front yard and to the side? Every house that has a Well, yes.
Four out of nine or five out of nine houses have garages in the front. Would the construction of the garage affect any sight lines
that you anticipate from the street? No, just ours from our side porch. We won't be able to see the front of front of that. Do you anticipate that the design of the garage is going to match the existing house?
Yes. Did the narrow shape of your property affect your decision to locate the garage in the front to the side? Yes. When you purchased the home, the house
was on the lot, correct? Yes. Will you use the garage for parking a car? Yes. Is the garage going to be placed right at the end of the existing driveway? Yes, it'll
be it'll be right next to the side porch and the front porch in between those two. So that once when you drive into the driveway, you could drive into the garage. Correct. Correct. Do you believe that the addition of the
garage will enhance the character of the neighborhood? Yes. Do you anticipate any negative consequences from adding the garage to your property? No. We've done a topography report, so
we know the drainage will be the same. And you're going to continue to use the property as a single family home. That's correct. I don't have any further questions. Did you testify earlier that this is an undersized lot? Yes. It's not correct. It's a regular
It's not a regular lot. It's actually oversized. It's over. Okay. I just wanted to clear that up. Yeah. I I I meant to say it's a narrow lot because it fans, but okay. It's a regular. Well, if it were an undersized lot, it
would it would be more challenging. So, I just wanted to clear the records for that. I have no other question. And to Mr. Chromemer's point, um the lot width along the street is only 40 ft. Normally, it would be 50 ft. It has
excessive depth. So that's why it's oversized but not typical. Typical. Got it. It's also a big house. Um I had a Does anybody else have any question? Okay. So I just want to clarify. Um
Miss Gman testified that was it four out of five houses have a garage. All the houses have a garage. Your question was specifically on the front front side. So So all all but one of those is actually attached. Yes.
Integrated into the design of the house, not as a separate building. Only one is a one's detached and one and then the rest are attached. Um do you guys do you have the pictures? We can show them pictures.
Talk to us. Um and then the other thing it's in their package, right? Yeah. The other point was that um this is not actually the location of the former garage. Uh the former garage was actually under that side. My understanding was it was it was attached to the house at one time and
then under the house. It was under and it went down. Is that correct? Yeah. So it was behind the front building line. It was So this is not the same type of garage. Miss I didn't see the same location. You said it was the same location, but that's not true.
It it it actually is the same location because the GR it's not the same size or the same type of garage, but it's in the same location. So, the driveway hasn't moved. And the old garage used to drive down the driveway and into the garage and down below the uh porch
under the porch. under the porch, right? And but the garage stuck out from the porch like it was uh there. It wasn't just the deck with a garage door there. And then this will be in the same spot,
but it will extend out because it's detached. So, I'm sorry if that was confusing. It's in the at the end of the driveway. it will extend farther because how far from the front of the property line is the garage starting
uh 40 plus feet I don't location I think it's 32 from the start no where it starts it ends at I think it ends at 32 so it'll the set back from the sidewalk to the
front of the garage is I measured it tonight is is almost 32 ft. Yeah. So I I mean can you get the survey because we have it on a Mhm. you can go but we could talk to it more. Well, you would you like her to review
the from the setback if they have questions about it? Yeah. Pictures worth thousand words. Do you have somebody who's going to provide professional testimony about the site layout and the dimensions of the architect will? Okay. Maybe that's yeah
more in his uh realm realm it will be I could tell you that it will be so where the house ends today today the garage will extend past the house 4 to 9 in so it'll be the setback will be 9 in
shorter than it is today from the sidewalk and Paul will tell you how far this exactly what the setback would be. I appreciate that. Thank you, M. Any further questions for Miss Gman? Anyone in the public that would like to
question Miss Gman's testimony? Just what she testified to. Not comment on her testimony, but question her testimony. Thank you, Miss G. Okay, next witness is the architect, Mr. Alchenko.
Come on up, sir. Good evening. Sir, please raise your right hand. Smallly swear affirm testimony to give this matter to the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do. Please state your name for the record and spell it for us. Please say state
your name and spell it. Yes, it's uh Paul Amlcho. A N E L C H E N KO. Thank you. Okay. Mr. Melchenko, are you a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey?
Yes, I am. How long have you been licensed? Since 1980. Have you ever appeared before a board? Uh, many times. I've testified throughout the state of New Jersey professionally. We accept your credentials, Mr. Almacho.
We accept your credentials. Thank you. Your license is currently in good standing. Yes, sir. Thank you. Did you propose a plan related to this property regarding a construction of a garage? I did. Okay. Are those your plans on the easel over there? They are.
Would you walk us through those plans and talk about the size of the garage and the location of it? Sure. We'll call this A1. Please, is there a date on your plans? Pardon me.
Is there a date on your plans? There is. Yeah, I have it, please. 92025. Thank you. the garage that we proposed because of some difficult pre-existing conditions
of the configuration of the existing home um sideyards things like that we had to contend with. So basically the result was that we proposed a garage that's 20 ft deep
and 11t 7 in wide. Is the size of the garage sufficient to fit a car? Yes, the the side walls are constructed of the 4 in u 2x4 construction very
similar to most of the homes in the area. Would the outermost wall match or align with the existing footprint of the side of the home which is the porch now?
Uh yes, it will. However, it it is 4 in closer to the front property line than the existing home is. The existing home is 32't 4 in.
The garage, the proposed garage will be 32 ft from the property line, the front property line. So it'll be an increase of 4 in difference. Visually, have you given any thought to the shape of the roof, whether it
matches the shape of the roof for the existing home? We wanted to keep it in keep well in in keeping cosmetically. There's an existing uh story and a half uh addition that
protrudes to 32'4 in in the front yard, which is a den. It has a gable roof and um three windows and we're going to match the same siding and we're going to have the same configuration of a gable
roof to match the existing home. The the garage will be 15 ft maximum in height. It'll have a garage door. It'll have a pass door to the side. the
one window to the southern uh exposure and the wall to the north to our our neighbor will be a blank wall with new siding. Do you believe that the addition of the
garage will enhance the visual parts of the property? I I believe so. just in terms of quality of life. Um, you know, to have a home that size without a place to park a car
conveniently is, uh, is not in keeping with the rest of the neighborhood. So, I believe it would fit right in uh, cosmetically, physically with the rest of the neighborhood. Have you given any thought to whether a
garage could be located on either sideyard or in the back? There's no location. available uh on this property without exacerbating uh all the variances, setbacks, things like that. And there's no access to for a
drive to have the garage located on the river side or on the lake side. Thank you. I'm sorry. Can you What's the date on the plan? I'm sorry. What's the date on the plan?
The last revision was 92025. Okay. We don't have that. Um, was there something that you changed between the I think it was the width of the garage was changed, was it not? No, no, no. The only the only thing added for that
revision was a a dimension of the height of the garage. Okay. To clarify that. Thank you. 15 foot. Donna, Donna, we have paper sets of that, but not digital. So, you didn't get digitals?
They were dropped off at the office. Oh, yeah. That's what it is. [Music] Personally, I'm not sure how a garage enhances the character of a neighborhood. Um, I understand that a garage may offer the place to put your
car, but it may not necessarily enhance the neighborhood. Um, right now I'm sure I didn't testify that would enhance the neighborhood, but that's the question he that Mr. Chromemer keeps asking. I should I I kind of disagree with that concept,
Mr. Chrome, but um, a garage doesn't enhance anything other than put your car away. So, what I'm pointing out is that it enhances it in the sense that it makes it consistent with the rest of the neighborhood. There's it consistent though
as as it was testified this is only one of two houses then that would have a garage that would be set up this way. So it's not exactly the same per se. Correct. There are other properties that have the
same setup. I think the testimony has been that there are at least two. every property is going, but they were they're they're attached garages. This is not an attached garage. This is not something that was part of this house. This is adding this to the
house to the property. And I understand the the why it's being asked for. I'm just trying to say that it's not necessarily the same in the rest of the neighborhood. There may be another house that way that has a garage on the driveway like this, but I don't
particularly think it enhances the neighborhood at all. Okay, maybe enhancement is the wrong word and maybe I'm more looking for a line that is saying that it's consistent with what others have. Is it consistent though? Is Is that
consistent or or is it just something that another house has? Other houses have I think the testimony so far has been that every house has a garage. Every house may not have That's not true. Not every house has a garage.
on on this particular street. Yes. Yeah. From the aerial image, Mr. Chairman, there are quite a few. I think the testimony was, if I'm not mistaken, there was five attached to D. No, I'm I'm just I'm not talking specifically Sunset Drive. I'm saying
he's saying every house has a garage. That's not true. That's what he was. Well, yeah. Their testimony has been that on our street, right? I I understand. But isn't the house next door not have a garage or does it go all the way to the Does their driveway go to the back?
Please do not answer questions. Okay. Sorry, tree. Uh, all right. So, that goes into a garage. So, I'm I'm looking at Google Street View from this past September. And um starting at the eastern end of the block
where it intersects with Comtock Street, um that's a curve. Um that house that's right on the corner um is a two-story colonial probably from the 70s. And there's a onecar garage
that is placed in front of the house. Um, but lines up with the front porch of that house. Is that light blue? Um, maybe. That was the house that I had in mind that was very similar to what
um we are proposing. And Mr. Chairman, I'm not trying to be cute with words. I would agree with you that no two houses are going to have the exact same location, but what No, no, no. So, the point we're making is that there's that one and then 13
Sunset Drive, which is the totally other end of of the street uh before it curves back uh to Sunset A. Um there's there's one other house uh 13 that has the onecar garage in front of
the principal front building. I'm aware of the street. All the other houses, the garage is integrated into the design of the structure. It doesn't sit out in front of the house. It's part of that front building wall. Um it, you know, the main roof of the house is over it. Uh which
one is this one? Yeah, that one's a This one is a twotory. You know, there's one there's living space above this garage. Um, same thing with uh which one is this? Is this five? Sorry. Uh, I'm not seeing the street
number on all three. Um, this is a newer house. Um, but you know, it's um, again, not like a separate structure. uh I don't mean to I don't mean this in a derogatory way but you
know sort of pasted placed separately in front of the existing house. So I and I get it. We can't I think based on uh the conditions on the property and the design of the existing house, I don't
believe there's a way to integrate a garage structure that way except the way it was originally which was kind of under the the side porch. So and again that's a function. Why was that original garage removed? Okay. I asked that question to the
client and uh she could corroborate what I wait but it wasn't it wasn't testified to if I could call her. Okay. No. Was it there when they first bought the house? Wasn't it already gone? It was already filled in
because there was flooding issues. So it was kind of like the way that I imagined it and the way I saw it. She has a picture to show the old setup. It was a ramp that was going down and that
ramp went down so low that it kept on flooding. And his fix for that was to raise the floor so that it stopped flooding. And to add to the planner's
opinion about inability to integrate, the architect too had considered whether integrating the garage to the home was feasible, but you didn't see that as being possible as
we always look at that initially. Yes. just for the convenience of living but uh because of the configuration as Miller says the access to the front porch uh the existing uh floor height of of the of the home is approximately 4 1/2 ft
higher than the grade level uh or the garage in this particular case. So it would be it would be fairly awkward. Um what about how the covered porch's width is more narrow than the garage? You'd have to intrude more into the setback if
the garage was integrated into the house. Correct. It would exacerbate the sideyard set back. Yes. Yep. And we needed to because of the existing configuration of the covered porch on the north side which is
open below uh where the old garage was. Um they would need access to that area. And if we if we put located the garage that uh that north wall if you will and and
brought it up tight to that porch there would be no access from that area. There would be birds, leaves, things like that that couldn't be cleaned out. So that was another consideration. So you feel this is the only way it can be done?
Yes sir. Yeah. I mean, we we try to come on different ways, but um the and and primarily it's the front it's the front yard set back setback which is such a sensitive issue that we didn't even
consider bringing it any further than our 4 in U dimension ahead of the existing house. And is the size of the garage dictated
by the usability of the garage? In other words, is it possible to make it smaller and still fit a car in or are these the minimum dimensions needed for a car to be in there? Yeah. I mean, we use a
dimension of 6 and 1/2 ft with the width of the width of a car. Um the owners have a smaller car, but uh we felt that this was going to offer them the convenience, but we still in order to fit the garage, we had to um marry it,
if you will, to the existing front porch. Um where there'll be a few more gymnastics in terms of construction, in terms of tying the side of the garage to uh to those steps. Any
further questions for Mr. Alchenko? I have one. How far is the actual encroachment of the proposed structure into the front yard setback? I'm sorry, sir. I didn't hear. How far is the actual encroachment of the proposed structure into the front
setback area? Set back. 4 in. It's not in the front yard setback. Okay. It's not. No. Okay. It's in the It's an accessory structure in the front yard. Okay. I get all right. I just But I wanted to know the dimension. I got
Yeah. No, they have a setback of it's going to be like 31 ft and change from the shortest dimension. Okay. I understand. Thank you. Thank you. And the require setback is 25 ft. That's the Okay. All right.
I'm done. Thank you, Jen. Uh, anyone else on the board or professionals? Um, can you please just confirm the garage is 2 feet away from the house
andor porch that is a twoft space. The rear wall. The rear wall. The rear wall is 2 feet, which we felt was going to be an absolute minimum for somebody to squeeze in there with a rake or something like that. I was going to ask, is that paved or what? Is that paved? What are you planning on doing with that street?
No, it'll be grass or gravel, something like that. And there's no door. There's no pedestrian door in this garage. The person parking the car has to come out of the garage door and then it shuts. Correct.
My understanding is you had to widen the garage in order for a car door to open. Yes. Yes. This is absolutely the minimum size garage in order to be able to and that would allow both sides of the
on right and left side of the car for both doors to open. Yes. Yeah. It probably be a situation where somebody would have to get out prior to pulling into the garage. Yeah. I mean, it's not like you're going to swing the doors open. It's enough to
get out of the car. Pull in the belly sort of thing to squeeze through. Any further questions for Mr. Amlchenko? Anyone in the public for Mr. Amlchenko's testimony? Just for his testimony, questions to his testimony.
Questions? Questions? No, not comments. Questions. Um, is there any uh allowance done for gathering the water that would be additionally added to the property?
Yes, we um we do have a a plan which is stipulated on the on the front of our drawing here. There will be storm water runoff um from the two gutter sizes. They would come down through leaders. They would be
interconnected to a 6-in um what we call perforated pipe. It'll be set in 12 in of gravel. It'll be sloped towards the uh towards the uh curb towards the towards the road. Mr. Emlenko, I thank you. That's not
usually your bailey wick. We we encounter all kinds of different things from time to time. Anything further for Mr. Emerald Jenko? All right, Mr. Chromemer. Any comments?
We're not there yet. Do I have any more witnesses? You have any more? No more witnesses. Okay. for I I'll open it up for comments from the public. Um Marie, can you run the clock? You have four minutes to
make a comment either for or against this application. Yes. Come, please go to the mic. Yes, you're up. Yeah, it's your turn. Sir, since you're going to give a comment, please raise your right hand. Small swear affirm the testimony to give
in this matter be the truth. All the truth and nothing but the truth. I do. Please state your name for the record. Spell it and give us your address, please. My name is Daniel Todd Rush. D A N I E L
T O D R U S H. And your address? Five Sunset Drive, Asbury Park, New Jersey. 07712. Go ahead. Go right ahead. Well, I'd like to comment on a couple of things. One of
the things would be the aesthetics. Now, before they bought this house, three people before that put an addition on. So, now the house is like this with an addition. So, when they put the garage in, it'll be symmetrical.
It'll be like a like if you were, you know, horse stall. So, you have you'd have it would look it would like look like a horseshoe. It would look good. it would would enhance it. And as far as being too close to the street, my house is much closer to the street than near a
garage would be, as is Peter's. So, uh, I don't see any problem. And I was I've been also I've been there for 47 years. So, I've been on this block a long time. I've seen everything. And when the
nobles put their garage in front, which is what they're going to do, I don't know if anybody ever complained about it then, and uh it that doesn't enhance the house as much as this would. This would make the house look better in my
opinion. And uh I don't see I don't see any problem at all. That's all I guess. That's Do you have any questions? about the enhancement cuz that seemed to be a big deal and I think it's going to
beautify the house. Just continue your comments. Unless you're done. Unless you're done. I'm done. I'm done. Thank you. Thank you. Don't let me surgery. Sir, please raise your right hand. Right
hand. So, we swear affirm that the testimony you're about to give in this matter be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do. Please state your name for the record, spell it, and give us your address. Sure. My name is Peter Merens, M E R T E
N, and my address is 11 Sunset Drive. Thank you. I live directly to the left of uh Jean and Maria's property. I've been there two years. I actually looked at their house three years ago to buy. Um, and one of the things I did not buy was
because it didn't have a garage. And when I look at their property and I look at the design of the house and I look at the design that's been proposed here, it's in my opinion enhances the property. I would far as a neighbor would far much more look at that garage
than a driveway with cars in it. I think it fits into the character of the neighborhood. There is only one house on the entire curve of Comtock and Sunset Drive without a garage. I live next to the house at 13 that has the garage in
front of the house uh to the side of my property. Um I don't find that to be a detriment to my property or the quality or enhancement of my property. Uh they're wonderful neighbors and uh the work that they've done in the house from when I looked at it to buy it to now has
been extraordinary. And I think that anything they do will only enhance their property and enhance the neighborhood. And I fully support this uh uh proposal to go forward. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else either for or against the
application? Seeing none, I'll close public comment. Okay. Mr. Chromemer, do you have any final uh words to for the application? I don't have f I don't have any. Okay,
so uh deliberation time, guys. Um um I don't have any issue with this. I uh I appreciate the time that's gone into it to match the existing house. Um we get a lot of unreasonable requests up
here. I don't think this is an unreasonable request for a a single car garage that matches um to a large degree this property. Um I know this property well. I'm very good friends with Sonier
still to this day. Um, I've spent a lot of time in this house. Um, so, uh, I don't think what they're proposing is is any detriment to the neighborhood. Um, the 4 in would drive my OCD crazy.
But but, you know, that's not really a zoning issue, but um um, and I would just encourage you to figure out what you're going to do with that twoft space. Uh, don't try to grow brass. There is my only advice, but I I'm I
have no issue with this application. Anyone else on the board for comment? Just trying to improve your house. So, and you're just trying to be able to put one of your two cars in the garage. So, understand that especially in the winter time. Okay. And you're dealing with the
space that you have. as your architect said, that's the only way you can do it. So that's the only way you can do it. That's the only way you can do it. Okay? But I I commend you for not giving up. Okay? So I don't have a problem with
anyone else. All right. Do we have a motion? I'll make a motion to approve the um building of the garage. This is on nonsense drive. I'll second.
Can I add the usual standard conditions for a golf ball case that I add to the resolution for? Sure. Okay. Um Daniel Harris, yes. Russell Lewis, yes. Natalie Pasarini, yes. JJ,
yes. And Chairman Abalone. Reluctantly, yes. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Thanks. 10 minute break. Yes. I make a motion to take a 10-minute break.
Turning into nailbiters. So, Roll calls first. Yes, please. Okay, let's get back to it. Um, okay. Roll call. Wendy got Wendy Glassman here. Daniel Harris here. Natalie Paserini here.
Vice Chair Scully here. Chairman Avalone here. All right. One quick housekeeping issue is the resolution for Somefield Avenue. We've held off on this particularly because I was not available for one of
the meetings that was John Scoey was and he was discussing this particular resolution with the rest of the board. So in order for it to be a little more consistent, I'm going to ask John to review some of the things that were discussed. Excuse me, Jack. Can you refresh my memory? This was the one where
this was Somerville Avenue Andy Carris's for an interpretation right with the yeah the interpretation of and there was uh it was about the parking right whether we were going to add in the parking and my opinion was is that that by doing that we were exceeding
whether or not right right so so my position was is that by adding in that parking element we were exceeding what our review was of the the um ordinance the ordinance Don I know you you took the opposite position of that
I'm not listening your my understanding of what we discussed is what you said is that we weren't we weren't adamarking into what we were saying that it was discussed multiple times and argued but that was not what we decided we were not including that correct yeah
yeah and I narrowly define the scope of the approval in the resolution I tried to keep it within the four corners of what you have discussed correct not get into extraneous things. Right. Right. Which I which I thought was better for the the board and board better for our our review of of the the
application. So um so are we all set on approving that? Yeah. So that would be the one that would be the original resolution prepared by Jack without the comments that were added. That would be the original resolution and I omitted out of the original
resolution characterization of what Donna said. Okay. because that's not what she said. I took that out. The rest of it stayed the same. So, I'm in agreement that we should approve the resolution that the way it
was originally written by Jack without the comments regarding parking. I'll I'll second that. Motion by press for 807 Summerfield Avenue. Second. Perfect. And then members that are
eligible are Daniel Harris. Yes. Natalie Paserini, yes. John Scoly, yes. And Chairman Avalone, yes.
All right, that clears up all of our housekeeping issues. We can get on with 1103 Drummond Avenue. Mr. Steinberg, welcome back. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, for the record before you start one, Wendy, you were not in attendance on December the 10th. You have reviewed the transcript, video
transcript of that meeting and are fully prepared to participate in vote. Correct. Yes, sir. Okay. And I will forward a certification to that. Good enough. That's good enough. You have five. That's fine. And you also asked us to renotice for the meeting in August.
Yes. and Jeff was here and he saw he he he saw that approved and then he would carry it to this date without further notification required. We're prepared to proceed and hopefully conclude this evening. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Steinberg. Mark, just just so we could have a little understanding where we were. Can you
give us a quick synopsis? Absolutely. First of all, Mark Steinberg, on behalf of the applicants, Mr. Lamers and Mr. Gary and and uh um this is a situation that we came before you um
six months ago December 2024 of 24 December 10th of 24th we have a situation where the applicants owners of the house developed a property and put it in installed a pool and a
pool house and and various uh other amenities associated association therewith. Um, and they had applied for permits and received plumbing permits and electricity permits and they were all closed out and it turned out on the final
uh submission of that they had violated some of the uh plans and they had violated some of the setback requirements as a result of those plans. Um, we discussed some of the major ones with you in December and we believe that
some of them were somewhat acceptable to the board at that time for purposes of granting variances. Um, have there been any remediations to the property? I was just going to say what you had said to us is said how are you going to fix this? Please come back to us with a
plan of how you're going to fix this. Don't do any work. You sort of indicated not to do anything, not to change anything. until the board approved it. So, because my clients go to Florida and I was in Florida, we couldn't make it
back until the end of April and we got together in May and then we set the meeting date for August. Um, at which time we submitted some remediation documents. I the packets that the board should have with some pictures and I
wrote a letter on July 17th going over each of the variances and requirements thereof and see how we're going to remediate them. I had a chance to speak with your planner um and we went back and forth and and we're here tonight to
go over those items and see what if anything can satisfy the board. My clients want to tell you that they have no they had no intention of just going, you know, helter skelter and putting in what they wanted. They dealt with
professionals. They dealt with um the construction department, Moren, someone Moren from the construction department as well as Mary and I believe was the zoning officer at the time. Right. She's gone. I I know. and and you know they thought
that they were somewhat compliant and no fault of their own. I think what happened was they left the construction to people in the construction business who certainly at times do not respect the plans and put in what they want to
put in or just not measure correctly or just do what they can. Um and that's what left us in this situation. Okay. Okay. Okay. So if if if we can maybe we can go over um planners's letter,
Donna's letter, and I went off of your letter, Donna, of uh August 4th, 2025 when I wrote my July 17th letter. Yeah, it's pretty much
trying to find the July 17th letter. I just saw it. I thought I saw it. Okay. Um and and we try to go down item by item to see how we can satisfy the board and do some changes uh in order to
uh get a final approval of some sort. Fine. I I'll just I can go over it verbally and and Peter can testify. You want to have Peter sworn in? One sec. trying to find Donna's most recent report.
Don Donna's most recent report is um August 4th is um updated through August 4 to25. It's
pretty much similar to our other report because we didn't change anything. Okay. On on advice. Not much. Yes. All right. Well, I have the other one from on advice of of of the chairman. I think he told us come back with a plan. Don't do anything essentially. Yes.
Yeah. That's what we wanted to do. Let's swear in the witnesses. Sir, please raise your right hand. Excuse me. Oh, sorry. Me, too. You slely swear affirm the testimony about to give this matter to the truth. Truth and nothing but the truth. I do. I do.
Will you state your name for the record and spell? Sir. Henry Peter Lamers. L A M M E R S. Okay. Uh, for the record, I just go back to your middle name, so it's confusing. Thanks for coming to my parents. L A M
L A M M E R S. Thank you, Donabeller, board planner. Okay. All right. Peter, you own the house together with your partner. With my husband, Ed Gary, who's also an attendance appointment? Yes. with my husband and Gary. We've
also Gary and he is sitting behind us. Edward M. Gary is sitting beside us and he's here at the board wants to hear from you. All right. Your letter your summary is not changed. It's it's it's those are the Yeah,
nothing has changed. Um and and I I guess we got to the required variances as to the accessory structures and and and um let me just ask this. Let me my letter I don't know if the board has it of July 17th.
We do. Good. That makes it easier. So I can just ask a few questions of Peter. Okay. The pad for the shed. Yes. When you bought the house, what was there? There's a concrete 10x10 cement pad with a approximately 8 by8 like
rubber made shed. Okay. And the shed that you had constructed is it on the same pad? It's in the same location. Just to be clear, the pad the cement pad was removed was replaced with pear gravel and the shed was placed on the exact
location of the former concrete pad. So the basically the shed is is uh the new shed is in the same place as the old shed. Yes, that's correct. Okay. And you realize that it's 1.9 ft from the rear property line and you need
three. Well, I do now. I did not realize that when it was being built. No one advised of the anything around the setbacks. All right. Did you get a building permit for it? I did not. I'm sorry. Your response was did not.
I'm sorry. I but if I'm not speaking up I there was not a building permit pulled for the shed. Okay. Um okay permits were pulled for electric and plumbing as councelor Cyber has residence. Okay. Um
tell us about the adjacent property uh behind the shed and next to I guess that's the side. the the property that borders us on the northwest southwest um
is Jim McMillan's property. Um he's been there for I think he grew up um on the same block. Um we have a good relationship with Jim. Uh he regrets that he wasn't able to attend today. He's working. Uh we did discuss the
placement of all of these plans uh in particular because the fence that was replaced was in fact his fence that was a chain fence. We want to make sure that he was approved or he was accepted the new fence going in because it's
essentially replacing this. Okay. And it's on his property. It is on his property plan. And is there any growth between the back of the shed and the fence on our side of the property? No. on his side. On his side, uh Mr. McMillan did um put
in a row of emerald green lighting um uh alongside the fence. Now, the outdoor kitchen was installed by your contractors at 2.8 ft instead of 3 ft. That's correct. And it was
unbeknownst to us in all in all honesty. We were not aware that it was encroaching the setback. Now what were those setbacks installed? Okay. It it 2.8 ft with 3 ft is required. So it's point is that 002
feet. No. Okay. Is that is that right? Is it 002? Any mathematician 002? Okay. It's 2 ft. Uh okay. Um, the pool heater
is set at 3.5 ft and and Don indicates that meets the 3T set. Did you send your letter? Yes. I'm sorry. I'm reading through under zoning compliance in my letter
that's page sorry three. Um I outline the requirements for each of the different types of structures. So under the pool heater setback technically that is um compliant compliant. Okay. So no variance is
needed there. Okay. Now the the patio what's the patio consist of? The patio consists of pavers. Um um not sure what else I can elaborate on that. All right. And that is again 2.8
ft where three feet should be detected. That's our understanding now when we were working. And that is all enclosed within the rear yard within the fencing. That is correct. In the enclosure. That is correct. Okay. Now, um, we went back and forth on the
Forever Lawn synthetic grass system with the engineer at the last hearing, and he found that that was compliant drainage wise. I I understand you now have an ordinance. Not yet. You're have an ordinance. We're We may have an ordinance ordinance.
you're about to have but but I don't think that's an issue here because that would the issue was whether or not we have uh sufficient uh or deficient lot coverage um and you know lot coverage we need lot coverage variance and your
engineer said no the drainage was satisfactory and it was pvious um so that one has been eliminated. Okay. Now we have the next one is an interesting one. The wall height
is 8 ft. Correct. Sorry. Please clarify what you're referring to as the wall the decorative wall. Thank you. So there's Yes. There. So the wood wall that borders the west side of
the property is 7 ft not 8t. Okay. Um we're we're reducing it by two boards. Correct. Each board is 6 in. 6 in. Okay. So the we understand that there's a 6ft maximum
permitted. So you're you're going to reduce that. You're going to reduce we would we would request the board. We'd like to reduce it by two boards and it's seven now. You said seven or 7.9. Correct. So,
okay. I always thought it was eight. Okay. So, it's 7 ft. If we reduce each board to seven 6 in. So, then you would be down to six feet. 6'3 in as as measured from the grade of the patio to the proposed last board of
width of the the wall. I'm mistaken on that. And I I'll defer to to Peter because he's more familiar. We would I guess we would need a variance for 6'3 in cuz then if you're measuring the same
way it's 7'2 in I'm sorry I I have to interrupt. I'm getting a little confused now. So, so in your materials, uh, this was the I think the original submission
of all the, um, hang on, hold Yeah, I thought it was 8 ft. Yeah. September 24. Um, the, um, the picture, it's page three, uh, wood, fence, wall detail. So that's
that uh horizontal panel um board wall see between the shed and the and the kitchen. It says the height of the wood wall is 88 in and that's 7 ft 3 in.
Yeah, that's what it said. 7t 3 in. So, and we'd like to bring it down. Instead of six feet, we'd ask for variance for 6.3 6 ft 3 in 6' 3 in only because then we don't have to cut into the next board and it would
be our position that, you know, uh, visually that difference is probably, you know, extremely diminous. Just for just for clarification, and it's probably hard for you to see that, but we're talking this this wood wall,
if I might. So, it's both wood. So, there is a cedar wall. Horizontal. I'm trying to use M. Miller's description. There is a cedar horizontal right wall. And then there is the white enc casement
3 in. And we're proposing to bring them both. And they're all the same height. That is correct. And you're going to bring them all down to 63. The maximum permitted is six feet and you need a variance from 63. If you can you can't grant back. We'd have to get
Yeah. Yeah. So it's like this. We can get down to the six, but we don't we prefer not to. I think why Yeah, you're right. You're saying that the um Oh, I'm sorry. Am I answering a question nobody asked? No, I I want to know why you don't want
to cut all three inches. We don't want to cut out the 3 in. No, I'm asking why don't you want to do it? Why won't we? Why don't you? We if the board doesn't want to give us the 6'3 in variance, we'll bring it down to 6 ft. I would prefer that.
It's simply the just to answer the question simply because of the where the boards start and finish. So it made for a a more convenient, shall we say, way for the contractor to reduce the height
of the wall without cutting through and restructuring. So that was the only was the proposed proposal for the board's consideration. Yeah. Um the retaining wall I think we discussed
that last time the um combination of the retaining wall and the fence exceeds your requirement. The fence is only 4 ft in height. The retaining wall makes it seven at one point where it goes down. We would submit respectfully that a the retaining wall is necessary to protect
this property as well as the adjacent properties. We have had no problems since the retaining wall has been in place. A B the um the it tapers down. It tapers up. So that there is a what what is the height of of the fence
on the retaining wall? The height is at the level that I have it here is we have it's page four
step back. Sorry. This is the fence that goes around the the front side of the property, correct? Out by the rightway. So, the Drummond side fence. Okay. What was that, Mr. Limer? Uh, it's the the retaining wall system
is on the Drummond Avenue side of the property. The aluminum, I think picket is the way you describe it. Hence, is on top of that. Um, with a total of height of seven. It says 7.9 on the bottom of the sheet
at the at the highest point and that's the corner of Drummond Avenue and our driveway. It it if I'm correct, Donna, isn't the fence supposed to be set back from the retaining wall? That's also Yeah. a requirement which is in that one too.
So I I thought my notes indicate that that was discussed back and forth and that wasn't a substantial concern. No, the report didn't say that. I I watched the video today. There was that discussion, but there was no conclusion that the board said they were not concerned
about that. So, it's a Can you say one way or another? Okay. I thought 3 and 1/2t high metal picket fence on top of the stone retaining wall, which is variable height as you go from
north to south, south to north. It's highest inside the garage, inside the driveway, not near the street. Okay. And then it tapers down as you go toward the total total length of the aluminum fence is
have any idea? I don't off the top of my head. The total length the the for the Drummond Avenue propos I'm sorry I don't have that. You may have it here. Um it'll be on the um So this is the German. So this would be
this dimension about half the property. So it's about the the fence is Donna. The fence is mounted to the top of the the retaining wall. Yeah, it's on top of the retaining wall. It is Sorry, for clarification if I might. It is uh not mounted directly on
the retaining wall. It is directly behind the retaining wall. put in close as would as as you would a regular fence. Thank you. Who put in the retaining wall? The retaining wall and the fence was contracted through Celtic concept um
Mark Matal not Mark Natal trying to say to Npalitano right here when you redout the property. Yeah, correct. We we in as a part of the pool patio project. These are the
improvements that we put in in concert with the pool. Were there permits for the fence in the retaining wall? Yes. Yes, they were. And they were approved by the town. Yes, they were. That was our understanding. Um because we have what um Celtic Concepts submitted in the
original plan which was Do you have those permits, Mr. Limers? Um, I don't know that I Well, I have all the permits that were things like plumbing, electrical. Um, but I'm not aware if there was a tag
or a permit on Well, you're saying that it was approved by the city. Do you have copies of that to show us? I do not. Um, it was on word of Celtic Concepts that it was submitted. I have copies of what I signed off on with a profile of
So you don't know for certain then? So I think there was some I have email correspondence between Celtic I think we asked you that the last time and you we asked you to bring those with you is but you don't have any of that. I don't I don't I'm not aware that I
have those. I can certainly but I I particularly remember asking you for those things. I have my notes. So I'm sorry that that wasn't in the notes for for I missed that too. You had it, Donna. Uh, so I was just going to say I think
the um Okay, I have a copy of the zoning permit in the application application contains the zoning permit that was issued. Um I think there was a maybe a
misunderstanding that um the retaining wall like maybe the retaining wall wasn't part of you know the understanding that that's with the fence because the zoning permit has a condition that says all fencing must be installed at least 1 foot from any
rightway. Um, well, you can't make the statement that the city approves something. Let's hear this. Let's hear this. Yeah. So, install ingground pool, pa patio, outdoor bathroom, outdoor shower, landscaping, and 4ft high open picket
fencing as shown on plot plan. And then there were conditions about, you know, the setbacks for the various things. Um, I don't have as part of this package the plot plan that was included, but there was no retaining wall noted as part of
the zoning permit. So, I think maybe originally the idea was, you know, we can make it we can grade it out. We'll just put the fence at some point. Maybe they decided they needed the retaining wall and didn't think to you you decided, Mr. Lamers. No, if I if I might the conversations
and I I don't want to sidestep your question. We do I do not have a copy of the the approved permits. We were going on the word of Celtic concepts. That's what I know. I can certainly go back and search for those permits, but um so
but you can't state to me that it was approved by the city. Again, the what's in your packet is the approved zoning permit. There's two of them. One signed by Mark Seagull, who was the zoning officer before Maryanne, right? And then the other one is Maryanne
signed off. Neither one indicates a retaining wall, just the fencing. So then we have no proof that there was ever approved by the city. Is that correct? Am I understanding that correct? Always anticipate to do a retaining wall. Always in every estimate. So I don't know why that wasn't included
in the scope of work that was noted on the permit. That's what I'm trying to get at. Thank you. And we don't have a copy of the plot plan that was submitted with that. I don't, but it's probably, you know, upstairs. Um But I mean, I'm just trying to help the situation.
If you make a statement to me that something was approved by the city, I I'm certainly going to say not deny that request or or deny that it was approved. If that was the case, then show me and I could understand the situation.
Maybe I can rephrase the questions. You had contracted out with self concepts, correct? That is correct. And they had chose you what they were going to do. That's correct. And they said they were taking all getting all the permits from the city. That was our understanding. And your understanding they received the appropriate permits
within accordance with the plans that were submitted. That was our understanding. That was our understanding. I I get that part. I understand that part. Mr. appropriate value for the issue because it's pure hearsayo. You're talking about what he said to them. He
has nothing there. There's nothing there's no proof that the city gave a permit for that. Correct. There's no there's no empirical evidence whatsoever data that supports the position that the city proved it. That's the simple I I agree with that. That's why I asked
him to rephrase it. He was under the assumption. I we know that we many constru construction companies say the same thing, Mr. Steinberg, but do they actually go ahead and do those things? Right. And I I can understand Mr. Lamer's position. I'm just trying to
get at the the bottom of this and how we how we address it. So, one item of note is that the zoning permit was issued to the applicant which was Celtic Concepts, not not Mr. L
the property owners, right? Yeah. Okay. So, Celtic Concepts was the one that obtained. So, they may be guilty of not but unfortunately Mr. members, you have to deal with it. I don't know if there is a a remedy at
this juncture other than tearing up the whole thing and changing the total topography. What was what was there before the retaining wall? Was there an older retaining wall or on the driveway side, which is on the right as you look at the house, there
was a retaining wall um because the grade was quite steep. on the Drummond side going towards Third Avenue. There was no retaining wall. It was simply a slope uh down to the sidewalk. Okay. And moving the fence off the retaining wall, moving that back a foot
is not it. You're not going to be able to sink it down any lower. Correct. It's still going to be a 4ft uh fence, right? Like I'm trying to I'm just trying ordinance is worded right now. It would have to be set back five feet
in the total height. Yeah. Oh, all right. Which is why we're changing that. Forget my question. If you were to set it back five feet, it would still be the same height in and as you go up, it's higher, isn't it?
That's that's correct. Because because of the natural grade of the property, which hasn't been altered. So, the fence is still higher than 6 ft. Correct. I'm sorry, I couldn't. There is a fence that is still higher
than 6 ft. Right. If it were to be moved back, sorry, just half the fence is 4 ft. The fence is the fence three and a half is is the standard uh pool
required fence. The do I am I characterizing that correctly? Right. And with the retaining wall, it's 7.9 ft. When you count them both, when you count them both, as we have to by the ordinance, if you move them back five feet is what you're telling us based on the topography of the of the
lot that that fence would actually visually it would actually be higher than the 7.9. That is correct. Okay. Thank you. That that's something we ask for. I think you've also asked for street trees.
So every application is required to if you don't have them either make a contribution or put them in. So that's just a standard we would development. Obviously if you tell us what to plant we will but that that's up to the environmental
shade tree committee Mr. Styber. We we don't particularly tell you what tree to plant, but we are certainly more than willing to either plant street trees or contribute to the street street tree fund uh as required.
You know, I think that you how many feet between the curb and the sidewalk on excuse me on the Drummond Avenue side is approximately 2 ft from the sidewalk to the curb. I don't know if that's the appropriate place for street trees or the development of street trees, but whatever they the environmental uh
commission requests will comply. I appreciate that. Yeah, that's not a problem. Um they you ask about the light. Can you tell us what you have? How many fixtures? I have there are three fixtures in the
area. Two over the outdoor kitchen. One is attached to the shed. Both all three of the lights are um open glass or glass enclosure. Um they are uh with four watt LED lights that are the warmer lumens. I
want to say 3600, but I I don't have the exact number. Um they are all on a dimmer. Um are they directed to your property? They are directed. Well, they're open fixtures as you can see in the the
photo. They're glass. So essentially, I think what that's kind of the problem. Yeah. That the the spillover of the current fixtures uh might be well might not might be is is not within the ordinance. If I
We have no problem in changing those fixtures to compliant fixtures. Excellent. That that we certainly can can certainly do. Then you also asked about the area that comes off where we have uh
gravel on the right way on the avenue that's on third uh yes third Avenue. Yeah. Um we it it What is that area used for? It's purely so the area that's being described is a access gate 4 foot
two gate access gate. We installed it purely in case we would ever need to have equipment in there because on the other side of the property there's five steps. So that was the rationale for the
installation of that. we put large um gravel or rock just both aesthetically and to be able to have access should we need access um wasn't imagined that that would be a violation but again we're
more than happy to make we would have no problem in changing that to either mulch or some other type of ground cover that you may suggest um and eliminating that situation
Um so um the city has taken the position that um loose gravel, pebbles, that type of decorative stone in the in the front yard area where it can't be
retained behind a like curbing or edging. Um you know, just creates a problem. It gets kicked into the sidewalk. It gets all over the place. Gets spread onto the roadway. Yeah. So, um, we have no problem. I'm not sure what is going to be
acceptable. We would confer with Michelle Wonzo to but we would replace it with something as long as it's not rock ground cover or or mulch or something that would be more satisfactory than that. That's not a problem, you know, a request.
And I guess the last thing that that you brought up, by the way, that eliminates one and 1.25% 25% gives us more impervious coverage. Okay. Perfect coverage. U there's a comment of
your your engineer in his letter that when we do that it changes to the benefit of of the town. Understood. And the adjacent properties. The last thing you talked about is that we have drainage going over the sidewalk. Okay.
What happened? Why didn't why did you do it that way? On the corner of the home that is south facing, there was an existing or there is an existing gutter with a down spout. In discussing with the contractors where that water would
go after construction, we installed the drainage drainage tile um to go across the property line which is parallel with the driveway to come out on the Drummond Avenue side to avoid water, you know,
either going back on our neighbor's property or coming into Yeah, we don't have a problem with the fact that you're draining. um you need to provide drainage from behind that retaining wall. Um it it makes sense. It's just that we don't want it going across the sidewalk. You
should pipe it under the sidewalk and have it come out so it goes into the gutter rather than across the sidewalk because it just becomes a you know freezing hazard. And the we couldn't open the street at that point, right? Well, it's it's the the sidewalk. we'd
have to pull up the sidewalk and go through the curb if it's um well it's a soft cut and so we if it has to be done we'll do that. We also suggested and I know if the engineer's not available tonight that we would put in a drywall
that's that's his call. I don't know that you need that but u we have no problem with discharging to the right of way for these types of things. That's generally acceptable. Um, it's just that we don't like going across the sidewalk, especially in the winter when it freezes under, right? I I do understand.
When you're in Florida, the rest of us are up here watching for icy sidewalks. Uh, we would certainly uh do either the drainage under the sidewalk or drywall, whichever the engineer feels to be the most appropriate.
the engineers report. Before we go into that, was, and I don't know if my memory is correct or not, was there an issue with the height of the the roof on the shed at the highest point? Yes. I I remember talking about that discussed at the last meeting.
It's not cited. That's right. Yeah. Right. I think so. Is it fence height? fell. Retaining wall fits. Oh, what happened to the H
10 ft. I think that's a compliance accessory structure. Yeah. Um they're permitted 15 for an accessory structure as maximum height. Uh it's 10, right? Yes. Correct.
Yeah. Uh pull that out of here. That's good. That's good. That's the same. That's the same. Yeah. Maybe we just asked what the height was and that's what's sticking in my head. Whatever the report said. Yeah.
Most importantly, what happened to the artificial shading that you had around the fences. U what you're describing is the wind fence. It was a black semiopaque uh fence that we put in on the black
picket fence while the landscaping was growing in for a little bit of privacy. That has been removed uh per the request of the the at the last meeting. Yeah, that's gone. Okay. answer that. Um, your engineers report
is July 29th, 2025, which addresses all the same variances. Um, but he did ask a few questions which, uh, Peter can answer at this point. Um, and tell us about the the storm runoff
after you put the pool in. Did you have any drainage problems? We did not. Now, have the appropriate structures been erected to your knowledge for drainage of the rear of the property where the the pool is and everything else?
To the best of my knowledge. And where does it go? Um, so to clarify, you're speaking of the rear property on between uh on the west side, right? I just want to make sure. Right. So, the the leaders and gutters
of the house were directed towards the street. That is correct. That was what except there is one that goes through the same piping we just talked about that is correct and that will be we routed underneath the sidewalk or to a dry whatever the engineer
would prefer um and that's only other than that the drainage is offsite we've had we've had no drainage issues um our neighbor Mr. McMillan has incited any training drainage issues coming onto his property
and you there's no additional runoff as a result of the construction. It's the same as it was. There's not going towards the street where it should be or being cooling, no ponding, no flooding. That's correct. There has been no to that effect. Okay.
um down spout locations um direct the run direct the runoff to the street. That's correct. For all the rest of the house structure, nothing as it relates to those gutter systems. And then he's he's indicating the
engineer is is he'd like testimony that the runoff does not flow off the property onto the neighbor's property. That is correct to me. Doesn't doesn't exist at that point. So
where we're at basically is we're still at the mercy of the board. Um seeking some variances for the setbacks which are 2 ft off in several
locations except for the the uh shed which has a a little closer. Um, and that's because it's constructed in the same place as the prior shed was constructed. Um, and uh, the fence and retaining wall. The balance I think we
could, you know, mitigate. Um, we would like to just take off two boards to bring it down to 6'3 if that's not satisfactory to the board and make it 6 ft. I I'm not uh adverse to the 6.3.
I am adverse to the retaining wall and the fence on that's in conjunction with that retaining wall. That's my biggest objection at this point. Um I'm not sure how to remediate that situation other than to say that the fence needs to set
be set back 5 ft. But you are I understand we'll see how we can mitigate that. But I understand that the ordinance is going to be changing less than we also changing ordinances for the astroturf.
So let's not talk about changing ordinances. Is there if we move is if we move the fence less than I mean what it is is obviously cutting into the the usable area of the backyard by moving the fence. So is
there a compromise there that we could resolve to satisfy this? We just compromised the 63 from 6 feet to 63. So you know we compromised we gave into that. So why do
you want to compromise something that is actually much more important? Well, the one um consideration as you look at this uh site plan, and I do not have measurements, so this would have to go back and be consideration. U the
fence would roughly be about 2 ft off the pool on that side. Again, an estimate. I need to go back and make actual measurements. But part of the the consideration or complication of five
feet off of the retaining wall is that we need to investigate whether there's enough of a walkway around that side of the Drummond Avenue side of that makes sense. Can you help in the situation? Is there
I I'm going to try and make a This is where I'm hung up on. Yeah. So, and again, it's not for the full length because, as we said, it tapers down. Um uh or what's the scale? And just because you move the fence back doesn't mean that that part of the yard
is is not usable. You just It's just on the other side of the fence. Which I I I get, right? But but it's not like we're walling off 5T of your yard that you can't use anywhere. The the consideration is that how far is
the fence from the pool, but we need to get measurement of how the feasibility of that. We didn't come prepared. I didn't come prepared to let the discuss. All right. So here we go. So, this is a um
How much of this can we settle tonight? Because it's obvious you're going to have to come back again. How much of this can we settle tonight? Yeah, that's what we're looking for. So, you there's a coping around the pool
on the drum side. That's not shown on the survey. So, I'm not sure how how wide that is, but it is you have um
well, if first of all, if we move the fence, it's got there is move it all the way down 12 ft. Well, 12 1/2 ft between the fence and the edge of the pool. Okay. So you'd be splitting the difference, you know, 5T, 7 ft,
inside, outside. Um, is the because it's on the drum side that you find it offensive cuz they really can't move it on the driveway side. Mhm. It would be in order to do that, it would be in the pool. It just seems like a huge
So if it's the drop side, that's more concern. Okay. So, let me see. So, I don't have Yes. Top of course. The top is the driveway. That's correct. That has to stay. And yeah, for safety purposes.
Well, that's like 3 or 4 feet from the Yeah. Okay. So, um and between the the fence in its current position and the landscaping, that's probably roughly 3 ft. Um, and then again, we need to get some
measurements to know uh because I don't want to misspeak or give the board incorrect information. So, are you actually saying Mr. Lambridge, you want to come back? Well, if the um I prefer to request a
variance or have a proposal to put it on the other side on the pool side that move the fence on the pool side of the landscaping which is existing. We just don't know how wide is that big.
Oh, okay. I might be able to figure that out. And those um the current landscaping is at the height of the fence today. There are skip plurals. So might soften it. Um if
that's what the board is is in consideration for um yeah we would move the fence to the other side of the landscaping on the if if it if a variance is not um
available to us. Um the proposal that I would put on the table is to move it on the pool side. move the fence to the pool side at the highest point if that's the biggest concern.
But Donna, what do you think? It looks like it would be three or four feet. I I'm hesitant to say anything at this point because I don't have this in front of me and it's hard to visualize and I I I want to be able to help you in
this situation, Mr. Lamers, but it's hung up on me. I'm trying to get by it. So again, is the thing that you find egregious um the idea or what it actually looks like?
Both. Okay. I I agree with the chairman. I think I I so I live on fourth and I know your house very well. I walk past it all the time. I I'm I'm 6'1 and when I walk by, even though I could see through the fence, it it's very high and and so it's it's it's
both to me. um as it is. So So again, if if they move the fence to the inside of the landscaping, you're going to have a hedge that high that's green, but landscaping is a lot different than a fortress. Okay. I don't know if that's sufficient
to make a decision, but we would move it to the other side of the landscape. Do we do you have a plot plan that we can see where or that I'm assuming that's what you're looking at, Donna, to try to get the measurements? Do you have any other photographs by any chance?
Sure I do. Uh I think in the original package, mine or yours? The original application package photo. There's a picture along the front.
There's a picture like looking down the fence line from the driveway. Um what what are we trying to find? Just I need more accurate. Yeah. Yeah. Like is So I'm assuming there's a bed of
mulch with landscaping before the grass starts and then the pool. May I Is this a bunch of shrubs? I may have So we would just be putting it behind the shrubs. And that's approximately 3 or 4 feet. Here's the Again, they're skip laurels.
They have the potential to get very large. They do. Um, we don't want them to be that large, but they take pruning well. And so, but yeah, you'd have a an evergreen hedge, right, in line with the retaining wall. You wouldn't see a fence.
It It would be much more attractive to I mean, the fence is open, so essentially you're seeing I'm I'm looking for pictures to see if I can Yeah. And the pictures in the package include the have the windscreening attached so it seems darker and more
solid than it than it really is. This is probably the best. Do I have that one [Applause] that would help? I mean we don't have a dimension but if
we move the fence the other side you know the standard is 5 ft. So we looking here a 3ft. Yeah. So wide these are the laurels of dimension retaining all sufficient
which I think would be yeah cuz even though you can see through this fortress. Yeah. It's still a significant fence even though you can see through it in my opinion. Dan, you want to see? I'm familiar. You're good. Yeah. The laurels up to the right.
So, the comment that I had is even though you can see through the fence, it's still a significant metal structure where if it was the landscaping in front of the fence, in my opinion, I think would be a softer approach.
Well, I was thinking sidebar with the planner. Thank you, Mr. Limer. with your planning and she's indicating if we could get through this tonight, we could agree to move the fence at least 3 ft from its cover location, maybe more
to the other side of the landscaping edge. I think that would soften the look a lot. I would be fine with that. Then, how do you No, it's all good. Yeah. How do you feel? That's it. I I don't I don't have a problem with
how it is right now. Okay. All right. So, maybe we can reiterate what we need and what we can do. Okay. Because I think we're a little confused. That would be helpful, Mr. Spe. Yeah. So, um,
we need a variance for the shed at 1.9 ft from the property line. We need an outdoor kitchen variance for 28 where 3 ft is required. We need don't need the pool heater. We need the patio
again 28 where 3 ft is required. Um, we're okay with lot coverage. The wall height we would be reduced to 6'3 by taking off two boards. Um, hold on one second. Oh, I'll go slower.
What are you up to, J? The wall height to 63 still requires variance for the 3 in. Yes, we would ask for that. Actually, it's.3. It's not 3 in. No, it's 6.3. No, it's 3 in. 3 in. It's currently 73. You can remove
two boards 6 in each. That's a foot. So, it comes down to 63. Understood. Okay. Um, the retaining wall we just discussed. And we would move the fence along Drummond Avenue minimum 3 ft
if not more. So, it comes on the other side of the the laurels. The laurels. Um, street trees as directed by environmental environmental commission. Lighting. Do you want us to replace the fixtures
with compliant fixtures? That's up to them. Well, I would to me there's spillage onto your neighbors. Okay. Right. And we're bringing the wall down, so it may be necessary. We have no problem with that. I understand. We don't want We don't want you to tell
us to move the pool. So, we can do three light fixtures. And uh let me just clarify. So, the um the metal fence, a long drum is only a long drum. Um
and they're probably going to have to chamfer the corner in some manner. Bring it down because the one on the driveway side is necessary. Right. But that's I I don't see the problem there. Well, it goes into the front yard. where it's going to um tie in on third because
that's the corner and it's a normal span. So, you may be in the middle of of that uh that section. Yeah. So, we're going to have to maybe chamfer that corner. You might need an extra post. Okay. Well, then what they have to do? Okay. We good with this so far?
Um what is the So, to hang on a second. So, sure. Sorry. We're not worried about the height along the side of the driveway. We're only care about the drum side. Okay. Okay. So, we're talking about the fence along
the Drummond and we're going to move that fence a minimum of 3 ft inside of the So, it's inside the planting bed. So, it would grant the board some relief visual and it would still permit you to have full access and use of the rear yard,
which you're not going to I'm assuming your laurels are going to cover the fence anyway. So, yeah, they're they're kind of doing that right now. We're trying to hack them back to make sure that they stay. I don't know. It's a It's a regular um chore for us.
All right. But the defense people will figure out how to get you from one one height to the next. Yeah. I Yes. I We'll get there. I need to assess to your point of the the corner uh the driveway corner which is the one of the original photos I think I submitted.
Right. Um just to describe if this is this is primary hook wind fence on the corner. Um so that's part corner of the driveway how the fence ties into the driveway. So
logistically I don't know. Well the fence may start the fence may have to tee into that some. I'm sure your fence people will figure it out. Yeah. It's stealable or we can cher figure something out.
We're talking about the fence along to be got that jack. The definition minimum 3 ft if not more. So there comes the other side of the plant of the laurels street trees as directed. We'll give you a compliant lighting fixtures and we'll
submit the the catalog cuts to the planter and you'll work with the engineer for the runoff. Well, and then the other the u the drainage questions. The drainage questions. Well, before the drainage, we're talking about the um changing the stones to an
approved over there. Is that that's environmental again? That's Michelle's office. Michelle's office as well. It could be the engineer as well, wouldn't it, Donna? Or no? No. I think handle what's going on. I think once if we have receive an approval and if we
receive a a resolution then we could say to them how do we comply with this okay um and let them to make the determination they'll give us you know we'll get a a fixture cut and and if Michelle says it's fine or the engineer we'll go from there same thing for what
type of planting we'll put on the uh uh remove the stones and the last thing would be that uh we're going to either come under the sidewalk up with that drainage or a drywall and which is ever more cost effective and more acceptable
to your engineer. No, I don't care about the cost. I care about acceptable. Well, if the engineer doesn't care which one that's a different story. That's what I meant. That's what I meant. Whatever's both cost effective and approvable by the engineer says he doesn't care. That's
not I I have no just in compliance with our engineers. Yeah. That that's recommendation whatever we kind of need. How long are you going to be in town? When do you go to Florida?
November 14th. I don't know if we're going to be compliant until the spring. But we have a contractor lined up for the wall. So the the the white wall and the cedar wall so that can commence. We'll start on some of it may not the fence. I just need to confer because
that um I need to go back to the contractor. Will it be done within a year from the date I did this resolution? Yes. Yes. Yes. Ordinance in Asbury has a problem with variances going beyond a year. It's just that if he's going to have to
start getting intensity, he probably can't do that till the spring when he comes back. Just want to make sure you're covered. I don't want you to appreciate that. So that's our case. Are we good? I think so. All right. So, I have to
open it up now uh to the public to for questions to for Mr. Lamer's testimony. Does anybody in the public have any questions for Mr. Lamers? I'm assuming Mr. Gary doesn't. So, I don't.
Yes. Um, anyone else? All right. Uh, I will open it up now for public comment. Okay. Thank you. Remember from the last time, please raise your right hand. You were here the last time, right? Yes. Swear affirmed the testimony about the murder of the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth. I do. Please state your name for the record and your address. Peter Bulo, 17054th Avenue. I live right around the corner. Um, so yes. Uh, good. Yeah. So, overall aesthetically,
everything looks aesthetically pleasing today as a neighbor. They've done a lot of work to the property. um understand the obstacles they've been through despite how they got there. Um if nothing changed today as a neighbor that walks by that house every day, it's more
than aesthetically pleasing and and fits into the neighborhood and there is nothing that I would change about it. I think um they are being you know a as compromising as they can to please the zoning board and uh I I wish that you
work with them to the best you can to approve their changes. Thank you. Thank you. I will close public comment now and move to deliberation for the board.
I personally would like to say uh I I appreciate everything you had to go through, Mr. Lams, Mr. Gary. Uh I'm sorry we had to get to this situation with you. Um I appreciate the willingness to make changes uh that we
have asked for. Um and uh with the changes that you agreed to make, I'm willing to approve this application at this point. I echo what the chairman just said. truly appreciate when an applicant comes in here and is willing to work with us
and understands our position. Um, so thank you for that and I I think at the end of the day this is a good result for for you and also for the neighborhood. So I the the recommendations I I have no problems with this application going
forward. Anyone else for comment from the board? All right. So, I'll make a motion to approve 11:03 Drummond with the recommended changes. And do I have a second? And variances.
And variances. Yes. I'll second. Excuse me. Wendy Glassman. Yes. Daniel Harris. Yes. Natalie Pasarini. Yes. Vice Chair Scully. Yes. Chairman Avalone. Yes. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. And I make a motion to adjurnn the meeting. A second. All in favor? None opposed? I