Um, good evening everyone. This is today is Tuesday, October 28th, 2025 and this is a regular meeting of the city of Asbury Park Zoning Board of Adjustment. Chairman Avalone, can you please call this meeting to order? >> This meeting is being held in compliance
with the Open Public Meetings Act, Chapter 231, Public Law 1975. Adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the Coaster and Asbury Park Press by publication of the annual meeting notice and posted on the municipal bulletin board and municipal website. All notices
are on file with the board secretary. Official action may be taken on the following matters before this board and this meeting is being recorded by APV and I ask everyone with a cell phone to please mute it for the duration of this meeting. Thank you. >> Roll call.
>> Wendy Glassman >> here. Daniel Harris >> here. >> Russell Lewis >> here. >> Jill Potter is absent. Natalie Pasarini is absent. John Hall is absent. Vice Chair Scully >> here. >> Chairman Abalone >> here. All right. Uh, no houseke keeping
issues right now. So, we'll go right into the applications. 102 Sunset Avenue. Dr. Kaggel and Lane Kagel. >> I believe I said that right. Is that correct? >> Is it Dr. Kel? >> That is true. Yes. Right.
>> Okay. >> Good evening. >> Dr. Kaggel's going to going to start for us this evening. >> Absolutely. >> All right. We have to wait for Jack to swear you in. >> Okay. >> Swear affirm. >> I do.
Paul Joseph K. P A U L Joseph J O S E P H last name Kable C A G L E >> Gerald Freda board engineer. >> I'm Jonathan Wolf uh architect. Okay. >> You need to swear that also.
>> Uh yeah. Right hand. Swear affirm testimony in this matter. Truth. >> Thank you. >> Please state your name for the record and spell it. >> Jonathan Wolf. W O L F E. >> Jonathan Wolf Architecture and Design.
>> Okay. Typically we go one at a time so don't get too confused. You can't have two witnesses speaking to us. You're a licensed architect. >> I am indeed. Yeah. How long have you been such? >> For about 10 years. Yeah. and I've presented for the board on a handful of occasions. >> Okay. And your license is currently in good standing.
>> In good standing. Yeah. In New Jersey and some other states as well. >> I appreciate that. Thank you, Jack. >> Okay. >> All right. Please proceed. >> Thank you, >> doctor. Okay. Yeah. So, uh we are proposing uh the addition of a garage to
102 sunset. Um I think those plans are up and we have a picture here. Let's have that marked as one. You don't mind? >> Okay. >> So, you put you you prepared those plans? >> I have. Yes. >> And they're sealed by you.
>> They are they are sealed. This set is not sealed. It's identical though to the set that we submitted. This is uh just sort of a prop. >> Okay. Can you tell me the date you prepared those plans? >> I can indeed. Um they're dated 31 July 2025.
>> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Absolutely. So we'd like to add a 492 ft structure. Um okay. Um I believe there are three variances that we'd be addressing. Uh so
one is the sideyard, one is the front setback and one is the total percent coverage or building sorry max building coverage. >> You have a design exception as well. >> Um >> yes >> yes
>> we do and I speak to those. Yeah, >> these are the design. >> Are you a planner? >> I'm not. >> Okay. I got to be careful. Okay. Go ahead. >> Okay. Uh yeah, I think that's the
entirety of the >> Okay. You got to tell us why you want them. >> Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So, yeah. So, we obviously uh love it here and love the home. We'd like to add the addition of a garage for parking and storage as well as just vehicle security. Um so, the
ideal aspect of this here would be to put a garage in that looks like it was originally with the home. So, matching the roof line, matching sort of the the front set back. So, this doesn't look like it was necessarily added on, but was part of the original design. Um, and that's sort of the the style of the uh
garage here. So, the reason for the sideyard is that uh that really gets to the minimum width for a twocar garage. If we bring that within the next couple of feet, it sort of becomes sort of unusable as a two-car garage. It becomes a little less. It's like a 1 and 3/4
garage. Um, for the initial front setback, uh, that was actually something that we had changed based on some of the initial feedback. So, originally we had it at 8 in back, which I do think aesthetically is pleasing, but I respect what the sort of board had suggested where we need at least, you know, the
length of a car, the space for a car to be placed in the driveway. And so we moved that back a full 20 ft so that we'd have 20 ft of space for a car to be able to park and not block the sidewalk or have no interference with um transfer to this but probably to the beach. Um
and then the percent coverage was just respectful of sort of bringing this to an aesthetic portion with the back of the house. >> Why don't you tell us about the property the way it is now? >> Yeah, sure. So right now it's a single family home. Um, I have the high school
across the street from me and then I have a neighbor to the left. Kind of a similar structure of home and a neighbor to the right. There's a fairly significant sort of space between the neighbor to my right. We'll be building this garage and myself. And then I have one neighbor behind me.
>> Could you could you just say east and west instead? >> Uh, yeah, sure. Okay. Um, so there >> Yeah. So there is a house to the east and the west of me. Um and that would be
uh obviously the beach and then let's see and then we have the sorry and then we have the high school to the north and one neighbor to the south. >> Okay. And so why do you want the garage where you're proposing it? Uh, so right now that's sort of the the natural place
where we're parking the cars and that would be it would fit with the flow of the home and I think it would aesthetically look appropriate. >> And why can't it be pushed back further so it complies? So, a couple of reasons for the the initial one. I think if we kind of look at the design of the house
there, the front of the house really kind of has this little jut that sort of sticks out there. And my concern is setting it back the full 5 ft is just, you know, sort of something that's not aesthetically going to look good with the overall flow of the home. Um, it would really not match or so to speak where the the house is now. And I think
we we do have some pictures, I believe, just kind of what the front of the house looks like. And it really is just two little windows in the front of the house there where sort of make that a focal point. Uh which I don't really think that would be ideal to make that central aspect the focal point of the house.
>> But there's enough room. You're saying it's just an aesthetic thing. >> Aesthetically, I think it would Yeah, I think it would look bad. >> But you have the room. >> Uh yeah. Yeah, of course you can move back another 5 ft. One of the downsides of moving it back another two feet as well at keeping the size of the garage.
If we look at where the air conditioning units are listed sort of on the poster aspect of the house, the back of the house, those are the windows to the kitchen. And so if we move the garage back, that does block some of the windows in the kitchen as well. Um, so I think it would have a little less ideal sort of lighting and space for the back
of the house. And is the garage longer than the standard, you know, length of the car? >> It's ideally planned for storage for things like bicycles. I have two builder now. So, the plan would be to have it be
car storage and sort of storage for things like that. Yes. >> Are you going to walk us through the plans? >> I will. Yeah. Okay. Currently you you park your cars it just on the driveway. Is that >> Yeah, they're like physically would be where this garage is right now. Yeah.
>> And do you park them stacked or are they side by side? >> Basically they'd be identical to where this garage is. They'd be side by side. So they would be it would almost just be putting a garage or the house the cars are now. >> So you park your cars >> side by side. Side by side. >> Yeah.
you planning to replace your driveway or your concrete apron or you going to try to utilize what you have? >> Um, I think the the driveway is a bit old. Uh, it would probably replace it. Yes. Um, ideally it would be at the same time
>> and that would be as Yeah. That would just match what we have now. Yeah. >> Any further questions for Dr. Kaggel, board professionals, anybody in the public who would like to ask Dr. Kaggel any questions regarding
his testimony? All right, seeing none, um, please proceed. Thank you, Dr. Kegel. >> My name is Jonathan Wolf. I'm the architect. I've been working with the Kaggels um on uh some improvements to their site um
and the house. Um I just walk you through the the proposed addition. Um size-wise, it's a fairly standard, right? I know there >> it's a fairly standard >> twocar garage. Should you go through it on your plans? >> Yeah. No, I'd be happy to point out. Um,
so here on the site plan, you can see 492 proposed square ft. >> So, this is a twocar garage. >> A twocar garage and and fairly modestly sized for a two-car garage at 20 ft by 24 ft. >> And it's attached to the property. >> It's attached to the house down to the
expansion of the principal structure. Um, >> and set back only 2 ft. step back two feet in follow the front step back and that was just two >> and there's you know the ordinance calls for it and I had presented that to the
cable and we discussed that we decided um that it was important enough to to propose the 2 and 1/2 ft >> um it really I think >> and that's because it might block the the kitchen windows is that correct >> that's yeah the main thing it would it would sort of begin to encroach on these
kitchen windows here >> and there's no way to set the garage further back on the property >> um behind all together sort of driveway. >> Yes. And and make it a detached garage. >> So the way the site is now really um sort of the front and side are pretty or
just exclusively grass. Um and really their sort of um patio entertaining space is is sort of here behind the garage. As I understand that's probably the most used sort of outdoor entertaining space you have. So it's also >> but it is possible to to place it
further back. >> It would be possible not not for the owners but yeah it would be possible >> to move it back. Yeah. >> Cuz generally that's what we expect the garages to be set further back out of
the view not in line with the house. >> Yeah. >> Do you understand that Mr. W? >> I do indeed. I do indeed. It's a slightly short site in that it's only 80 ft in depth. So, it's a little bit of a a shortened site. It's still compliant
in its square footage in the area. Um, but at 80 ft, you know, it's it's fairly short. I think if we were to set the garage back attached or or detached, um really you sort of have to dedicate, I mean, as we've done in the past, quite a bit of space to driveway, you know, and
more asphalt rather than the potential for um entertaining space and patio behind the garage, >> but which is standard in park. >> Sorry. >> Which is it's very common in Espary Park. The majority of us have these very long driveways with
>> shortage all the way in the back. Y >> and they would have the space on the side of the house. >> So this side um we weren't we we didn't look at the east side of the house as a potential opportunity for the garage. The idea was to
>> No, not as a garage. As as you're saying they're going to lose entertainment space, but they have what appears to be a fairly large yard to the side. What what's the what's the the square footage on that or what what are the dimensions if you have right there >> on the on the side here? >> Just on the side the side.
>> This actually is the the adjacent lot. I think it's uh 5830 to the end.3 ft. Um, here I have it's about 16 1/2 ft from the side of the house to to our
property. >> Can you go Can you go to the next page? I wanted to ask you a question regarding the the windows. >> So, right where where your hand is where the windows are in the kitchen. >> Yeah. >> So, you have two feet. You have a measurement of 2 feet. Is that from the
the corner of the house to the end of the the garage right now? >> Yes. >> So from the end of the garage right there is that's 2 ft. How how much how many feet is it from the end of the garage to where that first window starts in the kitchen? >> The proposed end of the garage.
>> Correct. >> I suppose we have you know another one and a half just based on >> so almost so almost 3 ft. So it's already back 2 feet and the ordinance says 5t. I'd say maybe you know to this jam maybe 2T maybe another 2T to that.
>> So almost 4T altogether >> almost 4T to the to the window from that proposed >> so the way it sits right now it's back 2 ft from the house correct >> in the front >> the way it's uh >> no I'm sorry in the front you've moved the garage back 2 feet from the the house line.
>> So yeah we moved this back I think the problem with the existing is is four moved it back two and now we're sort of left with with two as the >> Yeah. No, I'm saying in the in the front of the house. >> Okay. >> So, you you've moved the garage back 2 ft from the corner of the house. Right now, the ordinance the ordinance is 5
ft. >> So, we've already got 2 ft. >> We got two and 1/2. Two six. >> We're close. Yeah. >> Right. So, just bear with me a minute. I know it's painful. So, now let's go back to the back. >> So, you've got two feet there >> and then you've got another two
conservatively before you get to that window j. >> So, that's four right there. We only need three. Five. >> So, right, but I'm taking the two. Okay. >> So, we only needed another three. So, without blocking the windows as which is a concern for the doctor. I totally get
that. >> It appears that you could move the garage back another 3 ft be in compliance with the ordinance of five and not block those windows. >> I think we block the window by a foot in that case. >> And if I may interject, you have a 24 foot structure here, right?
>> Can we Yeah. And what's standard for a garage? >> Minimum would be 20. >> Yes, that's >> minimum is 18, but standard is 20. So you have an additional 4 ft for storage and stuff in there. >> I I would like to see you comply with
the with the 5 foot setback as I think um the the board is um alluding to. You Yeah, this is this is a pretty good size garage. It is a very good size garage. you have you have four feet to work with just with the interior dimensions.
>> Um I'd like to see you comply with that if possible. >> And I think in addition to what what my colleague just said, you have four feet within the structure and it appears you have another conservatively at least another two feet to play with, right? >> And again, we only need three more feet.
You've already moved it back two. So I I think >> So you think that would really help our application? Well, I think that would make it compliant with the ordinance and I I think >> it would eliminate >> the need for one of the correct for that for that and it would eliminate one of
the design exemptions. >> Paul, is that something that you would be interested in pursuing? Is that the conversation I mean is it is it relevant if we agree to something like that in this cont? >> It helps your application. Absolutely, Mr. Wolf. So, >> so is that something? Yeah, I guess I
mean I'm not in a hurry. I mean that's one. Um and it's a garage so it's a you know it's a luxury, not a need. Um you know I I do genuinely have some concerns. I I really would like would like it to look like it was meant to be with the home and not like it was
a secondary add-on. I probably would need to look at it and scale it out. I do just have genuine concerns that setting it back a significant number is just going to make it look like a garage that built onto it and not part of the original house. Um, >> let me stop you there. I don't I don't think it's I don't think, if I may, I
don't think it's as significant. >> Yeah. >> I don't think you're moving it back. We're talking 3 ft. Number one. >> Yeah. >> Number two, I think we would all like to see what it looks like on a drawing. >> Um, before this, not to speak for the rest of the board, before myself, I'd like to see a plan before I voted on it.
>> But I want to go on the record that 3 ft in my opinion is not a significant change. And I don't think you to your one concern for doing this of blocking those windows. I I don't think I don't think it affects that. If if a garage is
what you're looking for, blocking the window potentially a foot if even that. We're not >> they testified that the dimensions to have the room, >> right? >> It's an aesthetic choice. And I I'm just going to reiterate um the
design of this house and the normal pattern of development in the city. This house never would have had an attached garage on the side in the front, right? That's that's not classical typical architectural design for what we have in
the city. It would be a detached garage in the back of the lot, which is what I would be really set back farther and it would probably only be a one one car. Right. >> Right. that would be the original design if you're looking to make this property back to its original design. That that
would be what you would do. The ordinance allows for this. So that's why we're having this conversation. But um >> so can I ask a question about the before we give up on this garage even just the >> pushing it back
if we were willing to concede in any way to have it not all the way pushed back? >> Well, the ordinance allows that. Now you can build the north up to five. So we can't deny that if the ordinance allows that. >> So but now we have no sideyard setback.
>> The sideyard the sideyard's a problem for me and we haven't gotten there yet. Yeah. >> So I was going to take it because I now I'm what is a very large garage that you want to put in for two cars and storage. And
so you're you're pushing back on us about the couple of feet, but we have this whole very large garage that we need to address and what it's done to the neighboring
property, the setback on that side. So >> I I can only ask h how does Dr. Kagel feel at this point? You're you're hearing the board's objections, right, to >> Yeah. No, I mean, my goal here is to build what I believe to be an aesthetic and pleasing structure. I think it's a
hightraic street. I think a lot of people go down Sunset to get to the beach. Um, I think that this, you know, is also the house. I am the house centered across from the high school, which I think makes me probably one of the most hightraic homes probably in the city given the number of buses and things that go there. Um, my goal really
is aesthetics. I mean, I I I mean, I I get that, you know, that may not comply particularly with the historic tradition of the town. I do think it would look good specifically with this design queue, and I think, you know, John did a great job of sort of making a design that melded well with the roof lines and
sort of flowed well with the overall design of the house. I do respect that the history of the town was onecar sort of detached garages. I I mean I do think this would look good and you know it's something I have to look at every day obviously. So it's something that I want to be visually pleasing before I would
you know obviously agree to go forth with it. I I mean I absolutely can take a look at you know setting it back a little bit. I just I just have some concerns it just again just sort of brings this maybe unesthetic sort of central portion of your house out as like the most central focal point.
I I would ask again, did you consider building a twocar garage in the back of the house? >> Yeah, I I again I think if you're going to say valuable space, I think entertaining space in the back is probably more valuable than parking space. So, I think if I had to do one or the other, I probably wouldn't give up
the entertaining space for parking space and parking in the same space now. I was hoping to repurpose that same space with just a garage given the cars reside there currently >> in that in that same line of thinking that did you consider just a onecar garage? >> I did.
>> Same depth. So you still have the storage and you just stack the cars. >> You you can't you can't stack unfortunately. >> No. I mean what by stack is one is one's in the garage and one is in the driveway. >> Um I mean so the the trouble with it then is right now I can park one car
next to each other. If I do a onecar garage, by just the very nature of having the walls be slightly thicker and the onecar garage is going to be a little bit wider, it actually eliminates a parking spot. So, I really can't park next to it. I'd be parking into my neighbor's yard.
>> Really, cuz it would be probably a like a 15t structure or a 12t structure wide, >> but it would give you the garage. >> Designed a 12t wide one garage. >> Yeah. I mean, and I have I have about 20 there. So, I mean, I guess theoretically
it would be closed, but yeah, it would be a very tight space on the side. Sure. >> Yeah, I understand what you're saying. Again, you you don't have a garage now. >> I do not have a garage now. >> Right. >> It would be giving you a onecar garage storage. >> Sure. >> Albeit not the perfect setup, but
unfortunately, your lot doesn't allow for >> Yeah. >> You know, what you're what you're composing. >> Okay. Yeah. Mr. Wolf, did you ever do a design where you tried to fit this in the back and
you didn't need the sideyard set a setback >> like a detached condition, right? We have Yeah. in other municipalities as well. Um, >> so you think you could fit that you could fit a detach same size and not and not have the sideyard? >> I think we we can I think though we're
awfully close to to compliance. You know, I think with some adjustment we could get to the point that you could give us the 5T setback >> in the sense that if we work together and if it was I mean it has to be a minimal opposite to the owner and we we've discussed the variances in detail and and you know I've made suggestions
about ways of alleviating some of it but I think that we could I'm certain that we could bring everything down such that it would would require any variances what that would look like in the end as far as I think it would be a one car garage with storage but I think we could eliminate the side setback condition uh
uh conflict I think we could eliminate the building coverage condition, which actually uh Paul didn't mention it. We had previously uh uh proposed a fairly large uh expansion of the existing front porch to wrap around the east side of the home, similar to the property to the
east. Um and we decided that the extra building coverage that that represented um was going to be difficult to defend and that the garage was really the priority and that we should focus on the garage. Um so that's based on feedback from zoning. We went back to the drawing
board, made some adjustments um and here we are um aware of what we're asking for and aware you know that it's uh >> um that there are you know multiple variances at play here. Um >> but I think it's you know a matter of um
yeah just determining what's what you guys feel reasonable coming back with. Um, >> you also have to remember there's legal criteria that you have to establish for granted. >> Sure. Right. >> You're telling me I know which I understand. >> Mhm. >> You're a light person in terms of this
field that you know you you have you aesthetically want to do something. >> That's not the basis for granting variances. >> Okay. And if the board can, it has an obligation to reduce the quantity of variances and still try and do what they
can for the applicant. >> But if there's there's an opportunity to not have any variances for an application, >> the board should certainly disclo them and that's the law. >> So that's the situation that you have. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. No, I'm just saying. >> Sure.
>> You know, unless you unless you understand the criteria for variance, >> it's more than what you're saying. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. And as the architect, like I'm not a planner. Um but I have been an architect long enough to know sort of
the the requirements and the criteria for um the C2 variants that we would be looking for. Um and we would be prepared to you know address those criteria and sort of >> he would be you can >> right as as absolutely Dr. the cable
would be prepared to address the uh not just the feasibility but the you know is the appropriateness of sort of what we're proposing um and does it constitute sort of any uh you know present any sort of negative uh uh uh consequences to the >> positive negative criteria and from the
comments of the board >> I think you have an idea of where they're looking and what >> yeah thank you how would you like to proceed at this point Mr. Wolf M Dr. Okay. >> Um, where do we stand on the other
variances? >> We we cannot discuss the other variances until we get to some kind of conclusion regarding the overall design of the >> Well, so just to kind of lay a little groundwork, there is a um coverage
variance, >> right? >> Which is uh small, not very small overage >> from the requirement. And um obviously reducing the size of the garage to a onecar garage would be enough of a
reduction to bring that into compliance. Um and then there's the sideyard setback. Again, a onecar garage would become uh would be able to fit provide the adequate sideyard setback and still
have a a flat stall next to the garage and still be on the property. Um without increasing, you know, the building coverage and per all those things. Um and and then um obviously
increasing the setback gets us out of that design exception and the front node setback variance. >> So as many variances as you can eliminate Mr. Wolf works in your favor. >> And if you can eliminate all of them, you won't have to come back here.
>> And honestly, I do see a solution as as Miss Biller was saying, I do see a solution that would eliminate um all three of the variances. Um but it you know if it's not something that the Kaggels are interested in pursuing then you know so yeah it's >> well except that if they still want to
pursue the design that has all those variances >> right >> they have to be prepared to satisfy the positive criteria for >> varian sure >> and you don't have an undersized lot >> I get that you have existing structures and you know you can't move the house
but you've already testified to the fact that you know I think I've already covered this >> the sorry the you know the patio is not >> I think you heard what I said >> completely. >> Yeah. >> Uh so yeah so if you want to go back and
and reconsider the design and then we can reserve a space at another meeting if they need it. >> If they need it. And if I could also add one more thing, not to jump in, but uh you do have to
give us some storm water control on site. >> Okay. >> So, typically we'd be looking to collect the water on the new roof. >> Okay. >> And get it into some type of seage system. >> The area of the new roof has to be account >> means you're going to have to give me
some idea where that's a little recharge. >> Yeah. It's not >> Yeah. U and your driveway as I look at it full of sight. >> Mhm. >> Um on the east side you have a fan out to pick up the garage door. On the west
side straight back. Um if you go to a onecar garage and that's my question goes away. If you're going to come back with the twocar garage again, >> okay, >> you got to make your driveway wide enough to get cars in and out. >> So right now it's not.
is your coverage >> when you when you do that. So, however you look at it. >> So, both cars go straight in. >> Okay. >> Thank you. The tricky one's that side set back to
me. I think everyone, you know, um I think you know the five feet we can work with. Um just be Yeah. I guess we want to hear the board's feedback on the side setback. >> I think your instinct is correct though. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> I think that's a tough one. Okay. >> Um, anything else for the board? >> I don't think so. >> Both again spoke a lot. So, we should reopen. >> All right. I I'll reopen it to the
public. Does anybody wish to ask any questions regarding either testimony from Mr. Wolf or Dr. Kaggel? Seeing none, we'll go on and proceed to picking another date or what would you like to
how would you like to proceed, Mr. Wolf? Dr. Kaggel. >> Um, just so I understand, I mean, just so I get the tenor. This is my first attempt at doing this, so thank you for humoring me all of you. Um, I would, you know, just taking the tenor of this and maybe it's I'm incorrect, but it would sound like the direction of change would
need to be to bring this down to theoretically a onecar garage in order to have it actually be approved. Am I correct in that? >> Comp as your architect, I should advise. I think that a onecar garage, not, you know, may not be what you want, but I
think we can eliminate each of those variance requirements. side setback building coverage and >> and you may not need to come back >> and that would right as much as Yeah. >> So, >> so if we can balance those two things, the city's requirements and what you guys need. >> Sure.
>> That's where we need to be. >> I have a suggestion. >> During the interim, if you change the plans and you don't need the variances, you let board secretary know the case can be dismissed >> and then you can proceed to get your building plans approved.
>> Okay. So we could theoretically still sort of carry in a way. >> Well, we'll carry it to a date certain. >> Okay. >> Without further notice required. No sense of making you go through all that expense. >> Thank you. >> But in the interim, if if you decide to pair it down, redesign and eradicate the
variances and design exception, >> we we would have no jurisdiction. You would not to be here. >> Understood. >> And then you just let us know and we'll take you off the list. >> Okay, that's clear. >> So what do we have available, Murray? We would be looking at
>> 2026 dates, >> right? So, we really don't have dates approved yet for 2026. >> What's our estimation? >> We have we have a preliminary list that went to >> Right. But that hasn't been approved by the or adopted by the board yet. So,
>> do we have any other zoning board meetings next month and the month after >> May in November, December? Yeah. So, >> unfortunately, they're already booked. >> Yeah. But if if you can always carry it >> carry it again, but
>> then we'll know the date. So, so the the question >> magic of lawyering let's >> November 18th is the next date. >> Okay. Will we know I'm here for that one by then? >> Will we know our dates in January and beyond?
>> Uh, no, cuz they don't get approved till January. >> Okay. Well, how about Well, we We'll have to carry it to carry them to that date. >> That's too early for you to have your plan. >> December 9th is
>> right with two weeks to get it sub the last meeting of 2025. We do have we do have two applic applic applic applic applic applic applic applic applic applic applic applic applic applic applic applic applic applic applic applic applicants already on that date but obviously if they need to carry then it's not going to >> well we could do the second application
for January the what is it the 27th Marie we have a meeting >> that's true we have >> that's already been >> noticed for 27 >> so January 27th >> without further notice >> agreeable >> all right so I make a motion to carry
102 Sunset Avenue to January 27th, 2026 without further notice. >> And one addition to that under the MLU required to an application for the next foundation of submission. >> Okay. >> Wait a time within that.
>> That's right. We need to submit that waiver. Okay. >> Okay. So, >> is that correct? >> So, amended. >> Mary January 27th. >> That would be uh January 27th, 2026. Uh Chris, made the motion. I'll second. >> Okay. Jotcha.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Wendy Glassman. >> Yes. >> Daniel Harris. >> Yes. >> Russell Lewis. >> Yes. >> John Scully. >> Yes. >> And Christopher Abalone. >> Yes. >> Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. Thank
you. >> All right. Next application 705 Grand Avenue. >> Happy Halloween. >> What's that? >> Is he coming back? See you.
>> Yeah. We'll see you guys 610. >> I didn't say at the beginning of the other application. I did review. >> Thank you, Jack. >> So, we do have jurisdiction here. >> How about this one? >> Same thing. Okay.
>> I've looked at everything. It's in good order. We certainly do have jurisdiction to proceed in this application as well as the last one. >> All right, Mr. Scaria, is that correct? >> Scary. Yes. Thank you. I just have pictures on my computer.
>> I was going to do a quick introduction. >> Go right ahead. >> Well, that's fine. Uh good evening. My name is Richard Skiri. I'm a partner law from Mal Nean right I represent the applicant of Dale Fior. Uh this is the owner of the property for this application. I just want to give very quick introduction. So
I tell the board what this is about. The applicant um previously had a con form a 6ft fence on the property and align with the neighbor's property. U it's not by a street. Uh in September of 2024, Gapkin installed a 2 and a half foot
approximate uh length lattice on top of the 6ft fence to gain privacy from a new building that was built on 507 Soul Avenue. Uh the new building had lights that shined onto his property and also there was no privacy there. Al didn't
realize they needed a a variance uh for that. Here actually the plants had a design exception for this. Uh so we got a notice of violation. So he's here before the board requesting approval for the 2 and a half foot uh uh lattice to be on the six-foot fence here. We have a
couple exhibits here uh to show including pictures. I have Mr. Fior the owner of the property testify and all notices as the board attorney stated uh have been sent out. So unless any further questions from the board ready
for my witness. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Jack. Do you want to swear in, Mr. Fior? Please raise your right hand. Swear at this matter of the truth. I told you nothing. >> I do. >> You state your name for the record as
>> Dale Fior. >> Thank you. Okay. Uh, Mr. F, are you the owner of the property? >> I am. >> Okay. And what's the property address? >> 705 Grand Avenue. >> And are you the only owner of the property? >> I am. >> And how long have you lived at the property? uh was purchased in uh April
of 2012 13 sorry. >> Okay. And can you describe the structure of the building which you live in? >> Yes. Um the building um many in town know it as Edward's Beauty Salon.
>> You're going to show that. Let's mark >> A1. Yes. For this exhibit. Edward's Beauty Salon was erected in approximately 1930. Uh it follows the same art deco style as
the uh convention hall and the carousel. Um it is uh that lot that that block at one time in Asbury was primarily commercial. Uh where the Hubanian
townhouse homes are now was a paint factory. Uh the VFW building was next to me. Now it's the alphabet school and the beauty salon. The house next to me was doctor's offices. So that section was
>> careful. That wasn't the VFW. It was a USO. >> A USO. >> Oh, she told me it was the BFW. Esso. Okay. Thank you. >> You so you know it to you know that when it was Edwards when it was a salon many
people come by and and tell me that they their grandparents were got their hair done their grandmas and all. >> Go ahead. I'm sorry. Sorry I interrupt you. I mean it's formerly a commercial. So, no, what what I'm trying to explain is that uh the board planner just
mentioned in her review that it was a non-conforming property, and I'm just giving you insight as to why it's non-conforming. It was a it is a commercial building that has been retrofitted into a residence.
>> And um do you have a fence uh on the back of this uh property that you >> I do. Okay. And did you obtain the zoning permit for the fact? >> I did. >> Okay. >> And I have a bunch of copies of this, but if I can mark as A2 the zoning.
>> Okay. >> I don't know if you want me to here or just put it here. >> This is the zoning permit for the initial fence. >> Thank you. >> For the initial sixoot fence. >> The initial sixoot fence. That's correct. Yes.
>> And when did you obtain the zoning permit? uh for the six >> in um 2021. >> Okay. >> It replaced another fence that was there. >> And again, and so you need to replace
another fence that was initially there. >> Correct. >> Okay. Uh and then after that um there come a time and the fence is 6 ft correct that the previous fence when you installed it. Is that correct? >> Yes.
>> Okay. And there come a time when you added um a trellis on top of the 6T fence. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, uh, >> and, um, we have I just want to show the invoice for that, um, as a freight.
Thank you. I'm sorry. >> All right. And when did you um put the uh, trellis on top of the fence? Uh that would have been approximately uh August of 2024. >> 2024. You said it.
>> 2024. >> 2024. Thank you. >> Yes. >> And why did you install a trellis on top of the existing 6ft fence? Well, the 507 SU house was built in
uh it began in 2020 was completed uh I I I don't know the the groundbreaking was a little later than that probably 2023. Uh the house was I believe completed and occupied somewhere around June of 2024.
Uh once the house was occupied um I became aware well even when it was being built I saw the Juliet balcony how close it was to my house and the angle
on which it is second floor about 40 ft away is it's pretty close. We have pictures. Okay. >> Uh at night when the lights are on, it's literally like I'm on a stage
back there. It's bright. All right. So, let's go through some pictures. Uh so, we can show the board. Um and I have I don't know if you can mark all the pictures for the USB as one. >> Let me swear in my planner. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Yeah. So, I'll swear swear testimony to
the given the truth. tell the truth and nothing about the show. >> I do. >> You state your name for the record. The foundation board >> Donna board planner. >> Sorry. >> No, I'm sorry about that. Uh and we have a bunch of pictures on a slideshow which I'm going to go through with a client. I'm going to mark the whole set as as A4
or go through each one. >> Okay. Why don't you make A4 consisting of how many pictures? >> It is a total of 25 pictures. Okay. All right. So, um I'm going to show what
is the first picture. Uh this is actually from the uh picture uh mirrors the board planners uh picture. Uh is this an aerial photo of your property? >> Yes, it is. >> And the your property is within the
square yellow rectangle. >> That's correct. Can you tell the board where the fence is on the property uh in relation to that square? >> Um it is at the back. Most of it runs along the length of
their garage. The white structure roof at the back. You see where the yellow line the yellow the uh westerly yellow line that that square in the back is the 507 soul
garage. So you're looking at if you're looking at the picture the left the shorter um line on the left is where the fence is correct. >> Pointed out you don't point Yeah. >> We have a cursor here. I can do this.
The fence is No, it doesn't go that far. It starts Go back. Go back. Back. Starts about right there. >> And it goes to No, not that far. >> About right there. >> Okay. So, you just have to get in front
of the microphone. >> And then uh >> Yeah, I just have to get >> Yes. So, the fence goes from approximately, and we have some aerial photos, but on this line, approximately where the cursor is, not all the way to
the end, but somewhere over here. >> It It passes the garage a bit. Okay. It goes further down than the garage. Bring the cursor down. >> Okay. So, not right there. >> And then go over here >> and then this is this is the uh the my
side garden here. >> Okay. I have like a uh side garden that that that borders with the school. And there's a little piece of lattice that runs on the um southern wall about
5 ft. Okay. And the reason I did this with the lattice is because there was lattice already there on that portion on that southernly portion
because some years ago someone planted a bunch of rose bushes and they grew up and they put a lattice there and it uh created like a wall between the school and and 507 school. So when the
house at with the the school and 705 grant when the house at 507 school was built and I started to have this privacy issue and um light issue so it's a privacy issue
by day. At night it's a an adverse impact of light. So I thought oh well there's this trellis here with these roses. Maybe I should just extend it and make a wall of roses along the border of
507 SU and 705 Grand. >> Mr. Fior, did did you consider talking to your neighbor and asking them to modify their lights village onto your property? >> Uh, no I didn't. And I I'm not here to ask
someone to turn their lights off. >> I did say turn their lights off. Okay. I said to modify the spillage of their light onto your property. >> No, no, I haven't. Uh, but you you you must take into account that the biggest
portion of this light is coming out of the Juliet balcony. >> Again, I asked the same question. >> No, I No, I didn't. The problem is not just light, though. It's it's an unusual
uh closeness when they're when they stand in the balcony. >> But you they have a right not to you have a right to to request that the lack of spillage onto your property is what I'm trying to tell you. Mr. Buer, you
could have had them modify their lighting. >> Well, I did speak to Mrs. Uh uh um um >> Bernie. >> No, not M. >> Well,
who's the uh the zoning officer? >> Miss Alonzo. >> I spoke to Miss Alonzo about the problem and she said she would speak to them. >> I can't go on here. >> I'm saying did you do this? >> No, I did not.
>> Okay. There is an avenue for you to take. Can I >> This came up because of a violation. You You were noticed for a violation in a sense. >> Yes. >> Do you have any idea how that came about? >> Um
>> I don't know. >> I have no idea. I think it I I don't want to get into hearsay, but I can uh I they they they put in a poll and I think during their inspection uh the inspector spotted that or
somebody complained about it. >> Well, I what I like to do maybe if we can go into all the pictures >> cuz it was there for a year and then all of a sudden I got the violation. >> Excuse me. >> Yes. Okay. When you put this extension on top of your fence, did the city know
about it? >> No. Did the city did not know? >> You didn't have construction permits, no inspection or anything? >> Not on the lattice, just on the fence. >> So, you already in violation. >> H I know. I understand it's a violation.
I'm not contesting that it's a violation. I'm here asking for a design waiver. That is why we're here because he did not notice the town by putting the last he got a violation and he needs to seek a variance or design exception.
So that is the situation which leads us to here. >> But what we have here can we look at the pictures? >> What we have here are two issues that could have taken place. One by simply talking to your neighbor. >> Say what? >> Okay. We have two issues that could have been solved before you even got here.
one was by simply talking to your neighbor, which means that um the city would at that point hopefully come in and help you out with the type of lighting you own the house next door and the fact that you built a structure
there that the city didn't approve of. >> Yes. >> Two wrong things and now you're asking us to fix one. >> Listen, I don't I agree that the that putting it up was wrong. not talking to my neighbor about it. I I really don't
get along with them that well and that was my choice. >> If I you know I I pro I here I think they should be required to just stick to the proofs that they would
need to submit >> in order of the day for a sign. >> Right. And I just like I'd like to just go over the pictures. Maybe I'll show all the angles, the privacy angle so we can look at the whole slideshow. Hold
on. And maybe that will give the board a better context of that. And then maybe we can ask questions from there. Uh because it's not just a light, it's a privacy issue too. So the board if the board I may I just like to go >> as I as I understand it
even if the light was changed if the room that has the Juliet balcony um was covered at night the light problem may go away but the
privacy problem does not go away. >> Correct. Correct. and the the distance between that Juliet balcony and your fence line your property line on
how much that is. >> Well, I think if we show the pictures we can get a better sense, but I >> I have measurement. You have dimensions. >> I probably Okay. Because I I couldn't really tell from the pictures at least that were in the application.
Okay. >> Go with Okay. So, let's just go with with So, so the fence is So, the fence is along there. It doesn't abudge a street or anything. It's just between your neighbor, correct? >> It's between my neighbor and
>> the f the fence is between you and 507 soul. The ex the lattice on top is not close to any street. Correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. So, let's just go through the pictures. So, as far as the height of the fence, the height of the lass on top, uh, this
is a measurement. This is a picture you took, correct? Oops. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay. I'm just trying to That's good. All right. It's I'm trying to zoom without going to the next screen.
There we go. All right. So, the height of that 31 in or just over 31 inches. Is that accurate as to the height of the lattice? >> Yes. Okay. And then pictures of the lattice
back. So this is facing the fence. Describe this picture. Well, as I was pointing out to you on the other photograph, the greatest portion of this lattice is
facing that garage and nobody sees it other than myself and the people at 507 Soul. And we should >> It's in the intersection
of the inside of three lots away from Asbury Avenue, Su Avenue, and Grand Avenue. >> And we show this picture here, number three. This is the accurate depiction of what it looks like from the neighbor's property. Correct.
>> Yes. Which neighbor? >> 507. 57 to the um >> but that is much further back than that looks like. That's about 30 ft into their driveway. >> Okay. >> Well, that was my that was why I asked
>> Yeah, it's that's there's another shot that shows somebody else. >> Can you go Can you go back to the previous one? >> So, I have this picture which shows No, sorry. Could go back to the go back to the previous one. Is that the one the
tape measure or >> No, no, it just showed the garage. >> Yep. >> This village of light. Is it coming from the garage or is it coming from the house? >> The house. >> I can show you. There's no lights on the ground. We're getting to that. >> I can show you those.
>> Uh, so, uh, this is one of the pictures that shows the spillage of light. >> Back a little bit. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I have a few of these pictures. So, this is what describe this picture. Is that picture in our packet? >> No. >> No. >> These are exhibits.
>> I'm presenting to the board today. >> So, that's the garage. >> That's the house. >> You're seeing the house there. >> You just have to testify. So, describe what describe what that picture is. >> This one is this light coming off the Juliet balcony or no? Well, the the
lights the the spots are outdoor lighting and the Juliet balcony is the square >> right here >> that that's blocked by there by the lattice.
>> That's the Juliet. >> You don't have any you don't have any pictures of that Juliet balcony without the lattice, right? You do >> without the lattice. >> Yes. >> Before you put it on before I didn't take pictures before.
>> Not when it was still annoying you. >> You didn't take pictures of it when it was annoying you. >> So, >> just so we can see. You might I mean, >> no, I didn't. >> So, and these are a few more I can show that are similar. Um, and this picture,
where is that light coming from on the bottom right? Uh, >> that is coming from uh uh I'm really not sure. Um, >> where is this light? Yes. I'm not sure where that light's coming from. >> These are >> Those are his lighting. >> Your lights.
>> Those are my That's That's low voltage lighting on the fence. >> And then some other pictures. >> Um just let's go through the pictures. So this What's this picture of? Just describe. >> This is the picture of the Juliet balcony. And uh
>> where's the Juliet balcony? >> Right there. >> You can just see the railing at the top of the fence. >> Okay. like a zoom now a little. >> So, you're saying the light from the the light inside the room is is spilling. >> Yeah, it's it's quite it's quite bright.
It lights up my whole backyard. >> So, it's not just the outdoor lights. It's the light interior lights are in. >> Interior light is bothering you. >> But it's the interior and the exterior lights are combined. Both some of those spots.
>> I don't see any. >> No, but in the other shot there was You look you look at the other. See the exterior light there? >> That's an exterior light coming through. >> But that doesn't appear to be coming from inside the the house. >> No, not that one.
>> These are inside. And also >> this is an exterior light here. >> Right. But but you're complaining about the interior light of the >> Jul combined. >> It's quite bright. So, so that light
right there that you pointed to, where is that on your neighbor's house? >> This light? >> Yes. Yes. >> I would say that might be >> it's under the second bank of windows on the between the first and second is under
that picture something. >> So, there's the double window that with the Julia balcony, right? And then to the right there's another set of windows. So, do you know if that's a spotlight or is that a >> Yeah, it's like a security light. >> So, let me just ask you a question. In
addition to the light, is there by not having this trellis, is that um a privacy concern for you by having this balcony out here in addition to any light issues? You have a privacy issue. >> Yes, it is. I mean, issue outstanding the light. What's your issue with the
balcony right there? >> Well, it's you know, look, I have a very small space there. It's the building is commercial. It's almost full lot coverage. I've got about a five foot yard.
>> Okay. And when I'm standing there hold >> except >> and and do you have windows on the side of this house? Is it just a concern when you're in the backyard or is it a concern when you're inside your house? >> No, it's not a concern on when I'm on
the inside. >> It's just a You're just your private >> the in the in the summer in the summertime when I'm sitting out there or having someone over. Uh I I feel uncomfortable. I feel like I'm on a I'm
like there's a watchtowwer there looking >> you lived in this house from 2013 without a neighbor and then the neighbor came in in 2012 I mean 2020 and everything changed >> you know that's how most of us live however in Asbury we have neighbors that can see into our backyards from their
house >> sir I've been an a real estate agent in Hoboken in Jersey City for 25 years I've it's I think we can agree that's a very densely populated area of New Jersey. I
have an encyclopedic knowledge of the condo buildings in Hobok and in Jersey City. I've never seen anything that's any worse egregiously
in terms of environmental impact from one property to another than this. >> Are you Was that house built to code? Was it built? >> I I'm I'm assuming it is. I'm assuming they got they got all of the approval.
>> I'm not complaining about what they did. I'm just complain I'm My complaint is the impact the adverse impact it's had on me and I built the trellis to regain some sense of privacy.
I get that. I understand. You have an you have the unusual property here where you have very limited outdoor space and you have a you know basically a sliver that you prize as your private space and
unfortunately your neighbor was lawfully able to build that home. Um, and it that's just what happens in a urban densely populated area that is going
through urban regionals. So, I mean, I get it. I get it. I get it. Um, if if that if your neighbors, you know, having some some light pollution that's coming into your property, that's another topic. But if it's just normal light
coming from their bedroom and from their backyard, um I don't know that there's >> You know what? They're here. >> Well, wait. >> Does it bother them? >> No, you can't. >> No, just you right now.
>> They're going to ask two questions. >> Okay. >> And then you'll respond. They'll have an opportunity to speak and we'll conduct this better. >> Yes, >> we'll conduct this. >> You're you're not the first person to complain about privacy issues, Mr. We
all have the same complaints about privacy issues. The as my colleague said, it it's has to do with living in a densely packed small little town of Asbury Park. It's part of the whole genre, whole
issue of of living side by side as close as we are to our neighbors. So, you're not the first to complain about this issue. But if you're talking about interior lighting that that's spilling onto your property, I'm not sure that's a valid argument for us.
As for the possibility of of these lights that are shining directly through your lattice, as you showed us, that could be modified by your neighbor. I I'm a little bit hesitant to say you you
as in terms of the Juliet balcony that it's a privacy issue for you only because unless they're hanging out their window and which they can't really put a chair there to overlook your property, that's the only privacy issue you have is if
they're really stretching their neck to look out over your property because a Juliet balcony is is just a a bur and that it opens up to allow it some air and it's not a privacy situation for the
most part. It so I I'm a little bit hesitant to agree with you on these counts. >> I would raise I would look at it a little bit differently in that this house is a unique house in the area in terms of its height.
>> Okay. These are multiple. >> But this wasn't a house when >> No, no, no, no. >> The yard is what it is. The limited space is the whole thing in a way. When you look at the entire property, it sits lower.
The area where this the fence and the lattice is is so far removed from the public eye that it would seem that this board
easily has the discretion to grant this design exception to address this specific and somewhat unusual situation. And I'm just saying that I feel and this
is just my opinion that um it's been presented in a way that this could solve that very very easily um without getting into neighbor relations without getting into
all sorts of other technical things. It's a minor design exception that we have the power to approve if we if we so choose. So
I would be inclined towards that. I mean just let's move this thing forward. >> Can we see more of the pictures? >> Yes. >> Mr. Mr. I just I just want to confirm though that I understand your building your your house sorry your house is unique in regards that it's one story
but you're saying and I and I believe my colleague asked you the the let's call it the light pollution doesn't bother you when you're in your house. So so the the design of your house the style of your house is not relevant to your
argument tonight. Correct. It's when you're in your backyard and every everybody's backyard is the same. >> No, I disagree with you, sir. >> But I thought that's what you >> I I disagree that it's not relevant when I'm not in I I I I believe that the house is a totality
and it has its own it should have its the right to its own autonomy. it it's been there for a hundred years and the neighborhood has changed around it.
And so all I'm maintaining here is that the integrity of the property should be maintained. I don't feel that I or anyone else in the future should have to walk outside that back
door and have that imposition so glaring at them. I think it takes away from my house. It it it it um I
think it damages my property. And you're talking the light or you're talking the Julia Valley. >> The totality of my property has been altered in a negative way
by this home. And I'm not complaining about their home or their right to turn on their lights or their right to their own privacy. I I'm saying that I should also
be able to maintain the integrity of my property, especially because it is an iconic property in this community. I understand what you're saying, but my my I go back to the fact that there is
an alternative alternative for you if there is light spillage, light pollution onto your property, and that solves one of your issues from and again, I can't see. All I can see is the light coming through the the the lattice. >> But if that light is an exterior light
underneath two windows, which we're assuming a lot here, then that can probably be adjusted. And that's that solves one of your issues. >> One of them. >> One of them. And and there is there is an avenue for you to do that that you haven't pursued.
I >> But I'm also I'm also addressing I >> No, I just want to say but to do that I mean I don't know I if the neighbor if they comply with the light ordinance they don't have to do that. So if there's a situation if you try to
resolve and they say well no we aren't compliant. um you know, we don't want to adjust our lights. Um then we just wind up back here. While this board, this this board this board is not an enforcement board when it comes to violations
in there's other avenues to go and pursue that before you come to this board and ask for for a variance. >> Well, again, this is >> you can't say that. Well, if we do that, we're go we're basically just going to be back here anyway. That's that's assuming that you've it's assuming that
you're not going to get any remedies by pursuing the avenue that is in front of you, which is to go to the town. And if you have or one, talk to your neighbor. If that doesn't work, go to the town and file a complaint regarding the the lightning. >> This application doesn't ask for the
enforcement of a >> I have of lightning. This application asked for design. The gentleman right there just said that if they went and they pursued the avenue of going to the town that they might be back in the same position. >> I think you missed the more important point argue with the board members which
is no because I would like to move this forward. He's I think he's talking about a privacy issue and I am talking about why we can't give a designed exception for your one. >> That's right. But I am expressing my opinion. >> We've heard your opinion.
You haven't heard the case, >> right? >> You're deliberating the case now without having heard all the evidence, without having heard the other witnesses. >> You've already made a detail.
If you do that, then I'll switch gears. >> So, why don't we finish the case? >> Yes, please. >> After you hear all the evidence, then you can deliberate and you can decide what you want to do. All I was asking is that we address this as a design
exception request. That's right. And not be talking about um light spillage. That's all I'm suggesting. >> If the gentleman brings up light spillage, you as a board have a right to address the light spillage. He he raises the issue, you respond. That's but
that's entirely up to the five of you. I suggest you finish the case and then you deliberate and you decide what you want to do. Please proceed. >> Right now, you're deliberating and you haven't heard haven't gotten through half the photos, >> right? >> And we haven't heard any other witness
witnesses. So, >> that's all. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. So, why don't you proceed? >> Yes, I'll proceed. Uh, so I like to just go over each of the photos separately and Mr. F, if you could just explain each photo. Uh, so the first one obviously we talked about the aerial
photo, correct? >> Mhm. >> Yes. Right. Correct. >> Yes, we have. >> Okay. and just describe what the second photo I think we marked as A1 also uh overlaps but describe >> this photo is irrelevant to the application. >> Okay, now I'll switch. I didn't want to miss a photo. Okay,
>> there you go. >> All right. Can you describe uh this photo, please? Again, for the board, what is this photo depict? That's the fence uh which um
begins at the crosssection of 701 grand, 705 grand and 507 SU and runs to the back of the lot where it meets 707 grand. >> So where we're looking from this vantage
point, this is on 507 Soul Avenue, correct? looking at the fence. >> We right now we're looking from 507 soul. You're >> into into that property. Yeah. >> This is your property back here, correct? The square one. Okay. And then
your trellis goes from down a little further past the building line >> and it it comes down here a little bit. Correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And then we already spoke about this picture with the height. Correct. And >> so what's the total height that's
discreet? >> The to 6t fence and 31 in on top for the trellis. So that's uh 8 ft 7 int 8 7 in 87
>> 8t 7 in total on top. >> Right. And uh this picture again I know we talked this is looking towards the uh north correct on the fence. is that is the
all the way back is where uh 707 grand, 705 grand and 507 su touch. >> It's the interior crosssection of those three lots. >> And this is this the garage of 507 soul?
>> Yes. >> Okay. And >> there's no spillage from that angle, sir. >> I'm sorry. There's no light spillage from that angle. >> Not from that angle. No. >> No. >> Okay. >> The reason I carried it down. >> Okay. >> I didn't ask you that.
>> Yeah. Let me Let me just >> Okay. Answer the question. Just don't don't don't go beyond the question. >> Okay. >> You'll do yourself a favor if you only answer the questions. >> And in this next picture, um, describe this is looking from the other direction. Correct. >> Correct.
>> Okay. And uh this goes down the line to um this corner here. >> Correct. And this we'll have clearer pictures, but just for purposes if this is the house on 507 Avenue and this is facing south, correct? >> Yes.
>> Okay. >> And this next picture. >> All right. And describe is this the corner of that area facing south? >> Yes. >> Okay. And this is uh the house in 507 sold. Correct. >> Yes. >> All right. And this is a daytime picture.
>> Yes. >> Of that angle. All right. >> And this next one, that's another picture just looking a little back further. >> The same. >> And again, these pictures is just another vantage point of looking south.
Different angle. >> Different angle. >> Same same substance. >> Right. >> Okay. >> And then this one also is looking south but a little closer to show the clo that blows up the terrace a little more. Right. This is a closer picture. I don't
know. >> Well, that's that's what it looks like when you're standing in my backyard space. >> Okay. And this next one is just another angle. Same picture, a little further back. Correct? >> Yes.
>> Same thing, a little closer picture. Okay. All right. And again, same picture, right? Different angle. >> Mhm. >> Okay. And same thing just a little bit. Okay. You went over that one. And this
picture, uh, let's describe this one. I'll blow it up a little bit. So what is this vantage point? >> So this vantage point shows the interior cross-section of basically four lots.
It's the interior section of the block. So you have the house on Asbury Avenue. You have the house at 707 Grand.
It's my house. The and 507 soul. Four properties in that's the interior section of four properties. >> And this picture is taken from the sidewalk. Is that accurate? >> Soul Avenue.
>> Soul Avenue. So this shows the distance between where the fence is in relation to Soul Avenue. Correct. >> Yes. >> And it's you would say it's well over 25 ft. Is that a fair approximation between your trellis and all the way to the street?
>> I'd say about 35 ft. >> Okay. >> And these pictures, I think we showed them before, but just to confirm, these were all the night pictures. I'll just go through them because we already testified. Um these pictures I'm going
through 17 through 20 21 22 23 24 those are all the pictures that you testified previously of um how it looks at night from the south angle facing 507 soul. Is that correct?
>> Yes. >> Okay. And just want to point out you're seeing without that without that trellis there. It's quite devastating. Okay, we're going to go to the hardships
in a second. I just wanted to go through the pictures. And so that trellis is blocking fair to say part of the windows. >> Well, it's the Julian. >> It's filtering the light. It's filtering the light. It's diffusing the light. >> It's also um given some type of buffer
in addition to the light between the windows and and and the balcony as well. >> That's correct. >> Okay. And then this last picture, just describe this picture. >> This is uh the uh side garden
>> and this is your garden. >> Yes. >> And then we're facing those those are the trouses towards the back. >> Yes. Okay. So, those are all the pictures, correct? We went through all the pictures, >> I believe. So, >> okay. So, let me just ask you some questions now. We went over the
pictures. So, um can you just describe and I know we've been through this, but for the record, I just want to put all the issues. What is your hardship um or peculiar sight condition that you have that have caused you uh to put up this
trellis on top of the fence? Tell me all the things that you by not having this trellis, what hardship would you endure by not having this trellis on top of the fence area?
Well, um I feel like I've got a watchtowwer right >> right above me. very very close. It's very imposing. It's not subtle at all. Um
I understand that the house is conforming, but it's definitely had an adverse impact on my home. And I I really believe that
It may have even a financial impact knowing how people react when they see >> it may be irrelevant. It may be irrelevant but >> don't answer don't don't even you're speculating. >> Do not answer the question.
>> So my my question is not appraisal market value. I'm talking about physical hardships. You said watchtowwering. You said privacy. you said light spillage onto your property. Just go through again all those specific
hardships that you've had to endure. Um >> thataus that caused you to put up just 2 and 1/2t trucks. >> I'm I'm I don't feel comfortable back there. >> And why don't you feel comfortable back there? >> Go through the reasons.
Because someone is very very close and when they turn their lights on it it alters my whole backyard. Is there any other reasons besides what you testified here to today? So we need
all your testimony. Any other reasons of hardship besides the watchtowwer, the privacy, the light, and just being uncomfortable with being close? Are those all the reasons that you think this is a hardship? >> Those are the reasons. >> Okay. And
before this application, you put the fence uh the trellis up in September 2024, August, I think you said August 2024, correct? Before this application was filed here, did you ever get a complaint from the neighbor about the trellis being put up at any time?
>> Never. >> Okay. And the first time you've heard from the neighbor, I guess, is when uh the neighbor um from this application today, correct? >> I've never heard from the neighbor. >> Okay. Never heard. Not is now. But the neighbor is here present. Okay. Um do you have anything else you would like to
add to your application at all in summary? Um, I would just like to add that I didn't want to put that trellus up. It was not my intention to do that. I was happy with the 6-ft fence.
Putting the trellis up actually creates less light. I would prefer that the trellis was not there. But when I have to consider what is worse, the lack of light or the
invasiveness that I feel has been created by the position of this home and where that balcony has been placed. I'd rather have I'd rather feel a little more secure and
a little more private. It's not like I have total privacy from the trellis. The the trellis hasn't given me what I had before, but it's definitely ameliorated
a negative environmental situation. And I'm sorry, just one more question I want to go. What is the peculiar site condition on your property? You're peculiar about your property as opposed to the neighbors that that created this issue which
caused you to put up the trellis. >> What is peculiar about what what is different about your property? >> Well, my property is lower than all of these houses around me. I'm a commercial building. >> No, you're not a commercial building.
>> Residential building. The existing building. >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. existing building is old. It takes up a substantial amount of your lot area. It's configured so you only have a very very tiny rear yard,
slightly larger sideyard in order to have outside enjoyment of your property, but the use of your building is a residential building. You live there. You don't have a business there, right? You're not Edward's Beauty Salon. >> No, but the the the person that I bought it from was using it as a commercial
building. Okay. But you've been there for more than 10 years. >> I can rephrase this. I can rephrase the question to make >> No, no, no. I just gave you your testimony. You have an unusual configuration of building to lot area. The lot is slightly undersized.
So, you are constrained, >> right? >> You can't change your neighbor's house. You can't change your neighbor's property. Those are not under your control. Your neighbor has a conforming house. which I did the final inspection on, so
I know it's conforming. >> I I'd like to ask a question. Um, do you have any ability to plant trees along that back fence line or No, >> no. >> Well, he only has like 5 ft from the fence to the back of the house. Again, to clarify,
>> he has a very narrow space behind the building to the fence, which is the property line. a slightly wider space, but yeah, it's only about 5 ft. >> There's space on the other side, the neighboring property, to plant something
larger and bigger. >> I know that. >> Well, there are there are plantings next to the garage on on this property. >> There are. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So you're saying the gay advancess
of the of your property or your your privacy is only coming from one house. We talked about four different pieces of property. >> Um >> it only affects one house. >> One house affects that. Okay.
>> That's it. >> Okay. the the it doesn't it has no impact on the house on Asbury Avenue or the house north of me on Grand or the alphabet school to the
south of me. >> Okay, >> it's the only impact is with this house and most of this is facing the garage. Okay. >> Over half of that lattice is running
against a garage. >> That is their house. >> It's their garage. >> And the other two people, the other two properties, that's their property, right? >> Out of the four pieces of property, everyone has rights. >> Yes, of course.
>> Okay. And what I'm saying is not only am I trying sitting here trying to respect your rights as a member of this board, I'm required to respect the rights of everyone. That is why you send out letters to people to say please come to
this hearing so that we have to respect >> their rights also. Okay. So, I hate to put it to you like this, but what I feel there's a whole thing a thing called buy and beware. You knew what you were buying.
>> Okay. >> Excuse me. >> That's not accurate. >> No, it may not be accurate. Okay. But you bought the house. Just let me finish. All right. >> When you bought the house, you didn't expect to have light pollution come into your yard. Am I right?
Well, honestly, I didn't expect what I got. >> If that's your question, I didn't expect that. No. >> Well, you didn't expect what you got. I'm not Maybe buy beware is something that, you know,
>> upset someone. >> Well, buyer beware would mean I would have seen it and known, but I didn't. >> But then that's the wrong statement. But >> it was an empty lot. >> What you expected, you haven't gotten. But due to the expansion of people's property in a rapidly growing area.
>> Yes, >> that is something that may happen. >> Right. And and so sorry this is this circumstance, this case is
a response to that new development which they're completely allowed to do. But yes, it has this effect on he his quality of life where the windows on that house face, you know, his his uh
area of enjoyment outside his house. And so he again not getting a permit, didn't approach the city about making this corrective action to satisfy part of that problem, >> which I do apologize for. >> Quite quite
>> right. He he did what he thought would be effective at reducing the light glare, the daytime viewing of his private space in his yard. His yard, again, he only has this little space. He's only a one-story house. His
windows don't, you know, have an impact on the new house. Um, so, so that's like literally the the the trigger for this. If he had if he hadn't
built it first and he had come and said, "Hey, zoning office, the view from this house, the people watching me in my backyard, the light, it's a little too much. Can I make my fence higher?" and they say, "No,
not unless you get a design exception." He would be here saying, "I want to put this up because these windows are looking into my my backyard and at night, even the lights inside the house create glare on my property.
So, if I put up this screening, it'll help reduce that. And based on everything they've said today about the location of his house, location of the fence, how much yard area he has, those are actually the proofs to satisfy that request.
So, um, his one failure was doing it without a permit or getting any kind of input from the zoning office first and just go aheading and doing it, especially when he knew you need a permit for a fence. But that's why he's here. Michelle said,
"You know, I get you did it. We're resolving that separately in municipal court, but you have this other avenue. Go to the zoning board and and uh plead your case. Show your proofs. See if your neighbors will come out and support."
>> Right. Wait, hold on. Hold on. We have to finish with with Mr. Fior first. >> So So I think that's where we are. And I it would be very interesting if there are any public questions for the testimony that's happened.
>> Do you want to run this meeting, Donna? >> So I think it's your turn now just to remain silent. Remain silent, Donna. Remain silent. We've heard what you had to say. >> Yes. >> All right, Mr. Fior. We've heard your
testimony. >> I'm sorry. I have no further questions. Just wrap it up. Thank you. I thought you were done, right? >> I'm done. >> Okay. >> So, we've heard your testimony, Mr. Fior. >> Okay. >> At this point, does anybody else have
any questions further for Mr. Fior? >> No. >> Donna, do you have any more questions for Mr. Fior? >> I Danny. >> Okay. All your lights basically from what I see over below the trousers of your fence and shine into your yard.
Right. I'm I'm just having it a little difficult hearing you. >> All your lights that you have in the back are six below 6 ft. Am I correct about that? >> My lights. >> His lights. >> Well, yeah. The light on the fence. >> That's his light. >> That's
Yeah. All of them are below 6 ft. >> Those are all like two volts. >> Yes. >> Okay. How many on the uh >> how many? >> Yes, sir. Uh, >> I see two. >> Three. >> Three. >> Okay. So, you have made an attempt to
just keep your lighting on your side of the >> Yes, sir. >> That's what That's what I'm trying to get to. >> Yes. >> All right. Okay. >> Okay. That's it. Okay. Any further questions for Mr. Fior? >> All right. Donnie, you're done.
>> You want to speak? >> I don't really want to speak. >> Okay. So, we'll open it up for public questioning of Mr. viewer >> and please direct your questions regarding his testimony only. >> No.
>> Okay. Comment. You have questions? >> No questions. >> Okay. No questions. All right. >> All right. >> So, we'll open it up for public comment now. >> Okay. >> I want to give you >> No, no, no.
>> Hold on to that. >> Okay. >> Go to the microphone first. Let's get you sworn in. >> Four minutes. You get four minutes for your comment. >> Right. >> I do. Please state your name. Spell it. >> Marilyn Bernie. B E R N E Y.
>> And I know you're on list of properties cuz I looked at that. Where do you live? >> 507 Su Avenue. We are the new building question. >> Okay, you're up. Now you're up. >> May I hand in these pictures, please? First, you got to as you're bringing them to me, you got to tell me what they are.
>> Did you swear her in? >> Yes. >> And we have to make sure it's on the record. Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. I just >> I'm going to show you this first. >> Is >> that is that is another angle of the
fence with the trellis on top. You can see it stops short from the back of the property. >> Now, which side of the fence are you on on this boat? I am on the I am facing the fence from my driveway. >> Oh, you're over here you're on your side.
>> Yes, I am on the westerly side. >> Okay, that's why >> they're all similar angle. >> Okay. And this I don't know what this is on the record. Just go back to you want. You're the only one who can see it.
Let me and then I'll bring that photograph. Okay. >> This photo is the angle from the north west corner of our property looking towards Sul Avenue. >> This is the opposite angle. We are
standing about 20 some odd feet into our driveway looking looking north. >> All right. And these are all on your property, >> correct? >> And this >> this is just showing that the lower part of the fence is splintering >> below the trellis.
>> Okay, get all four photographs. >> You have any objection to potassium? >> I hope you're not going to limit me to four minutes based on I don't have objections or no. >> All four of these photographs were taken
from her side of the property looking at the fence. Okay. They're various angles from different points of the property. I think this one shows the garage area. This one is the last one that she identified. the witness identified that shows the splitting of the horizontal
beams or horizontal beam. This is another angle windows on that side of the property. Um, and this is on her. She's looking over and
>> yeah, we're going to have everybody pass them down so everybody can see it. Okay. And this is another angle. You can see the anchor in all of these seems to be this uh covered grill or whatever. >> Covered bicycle. >> Okay. Bicycle. Okay. >> Okay. I want to make sure everybody gets
a chance to look at that. >> I want to start with a statement that's going to surprise everyone up there. >> Can you speak louder, please? >> I want to start with a statement that is going to surprise everyone up there. We do not oppose this lattice.
We have zero interest in seeing Mr. Fior's side of the property. We do not stand up at our Juliet balcony peering over the buildings that surround us. We are very busy people. In fact,
the lights don't go on in that room till 10:00 each night when we go upstairs. And we are asleep by 10:45. We have blinds now on the window. They're not room darkening blinds, but they're blinds. We do have motion sensors in the
backyard for security. We do not keep our backyard lights on all night long. We do not wish that Mr. Fior does not have privacy. However, what we do not understand is why he
stopped two panels short on that fence. As you can see in those pictures that I just gave you, it almost makes us feel that he goes to the corner to look in to see what we're doing. We have bad blood between us. I could give you the whole story, but it's not worth it and it's
not relevant. All we want is to live in peace. We built a beautiful conforming home that we went through a lot of hoops to build. We were denied at this board the first time. So, we changed our plan. The first
plan centered everything on the lot so that we had a lot of side room on each side. It would have been better for all the neighbors. It was denied because it had an attached garage similar to the previous application. It was even 5-ft setback, but it was
denied. So, we went to plan B. We put a detached onecar garage, which conforms to the rest of Asbury on the back corner of the lot with the proper setbacks. We left a lot of yard in the back and we pushed our house to the west to leave
room for a driveway. But the only thing we ask is that if he's going to keep the lattice up, he finishes it towards the northwest edge of the property and that he maintains the fence so it stops splintering. That's it. And I my husband
may have something else to say as well, but that's pretty much it in a nutshell. We don't wish anyone ill. We want everyone to live in peace. We're here full-time as residents. Our family comes down. Our friends come down. We're not late night parters. I mean, I have to
say this neighborhood could have gotten a duplex rental with lots of just postcol grad kids who party all night long. We have some of those neighbors. We wish them well, too. We're not them. We're in bed by 10:45.
So, things could be a lot worse. So be careful what you wish for. >> Wait, you're not done? >> No. >> Sorry. Ask any questions? >> No. >> Anyone on the board? >> No. >> Yeah, I spoke about bad blood.
>> Yes. >> That's not relevant to what we're talking about. >> But you have no problem with the trellis. Only thing you wish that would be closed off. >> Correct. If he wants a trellis, God bless. >> Okay. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Okay. Ser, please raise your right hand. You saw the swear. Testimony, the truth, whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> Yes. >> Please state your name for the record. >> Michael Bernie >> and your address. >> 507 Su. >> S is yours.
>> Excuse me. >> The floor is yours. >> Oh, thank thank you. Um, so first a question came up um how this all came about. And the way it came about was shortly after the trellis was installed. I don't know the exact date, but we were getting inspections left and right,
conforming to everything, and I was told to take down the trellis. At that point, I had to say it wasn't my fence. You guys got to do what you got to do, but it's not me. So, that's how it came about. Um, I also want to say I agree with everything my wife said,
of course. Um, as for the as for the board, I don't know how you guys sleep at night allowing us to have a light in our bedroom. Shame on you guys. But, um, we have no issue with the trellis. If you
want to grant the applicant two additional feet to make it 10 ft, I'm all for it. Um, like my wife said, we have no interest whatsoever in looking at Mr. Fior.
um it's so not on our radar that we don't really care what he does. I thought it was very interesting bringing up the fact that uh he's actually so fortunate to have this type of structure. Normally a residential
structure will allow 30 to 40 ft in the back allowing a lot more buffer space between his back door and our bedroom window. But because that building is like almost 100% lot coverage, we have
to be close together. And further, this is Asbury Park. And I'd like Mr. Fior and Dick Sura to hear this. It's the city by the sea. It's the city by the sea. It's not Tukesbury. It's not
Basking Ridge where we each have 5 acres. I open my door at night. The bright light from the Hopes Charter School is blaring at me. I look to the east. The school, the alphabet school, has lights on all night. I look at Mr. Fior's house occasionally because he has
a glaring green, pink, and purple light in his backyard. I look at 707 Grand, my friend Donald. He's got a third floor back light that goes on. I could see it from my bedroom. I look to the west. We got two renters next door. There's
always lights on. But you know what? God bless them. Everyone's got to live and everyone's got to enjoy life. So once again, you know, we have no objection. We strongly urge the board to pass this
variance and allow the trellis. So I want to go on record as saying we do not oppose this. Thank you. >> Thank you. Oh, unless you have further questions. >> Who told you to take the trellis down? I don't Well, we had so many inspections I
can't recall, but I was told, "Is that your trellis?" I remember the conversation. I don't remember who it was. Is that your trellis? I said, "No, that's not my trellis. That's not my fence." So, it was a very short conversation. I don't know who it was. I don't >> It was during the inspection phases of your house when
>> Yes. We had so many people coming and going. I I don't remember which one it was. >> Okay. Thank you. I have no question. >> May I explain why I didn't finish it? No. Bring it all the way down. >> No, please. >> No. No. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Thank you.
>> Is that it? Anyone else from the public? >> All right. Anybody else in the public? Any questions for Mr. Fior's testimony? Seeing none, we'll close public comment. Thank you. >> Have a motion. Move. Christopher, you move that. Close. Close public session.
Second, please. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Any opposed? Eyes. >> Okay. Do you want to start? >> Yeah, briefly. I think because so you know we myself and and my client we do have a history with the Bernies and
other applications and I actually although you can see that there's some bad blood. I do appreciate them coming up. I do appreciate the support for the application and I think this just created interesting unusual scenario
where not only we have a design exception we're requesting from the board but this is also helpful to the neighbor as they stated didn't object to it. This is a great way I think just to make peace um create privacy of a
difficult situation of a peculiar circumstance um and if there's anything we need to do to complete that I will talk to my client uh see if he's agreeable with that but I would kindly request especially based upon the public comment
in favor of the application and all the reasons why this is a peculiar circumstance a hardship um that I think it's just based best to create peace between the neighbors. It doesn't push this and prolong this into other negotiations which neither of the
parties want. They just want to be left alone. This trellis solves it. It's away from a street. It's a design exception. Uh it's going to allow everyone to move forward. So, I would just uh respectfully request that the application be granted. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Spir.
>> Thank you. All right. Before you delude, let me give you a quick let me give you the law and then you can apply the facts to the law. Okay? Design exception unlike a variance only requires the positive criteria not the negative. Okay. So here's the here's the essence
of it. It says if the little enforcement uh you the board can grant it either planning or zoning whatever in the appropriate circumstances. If the little literal enforcement of one or more provisions of the ordinance is impracticable or will exact an undue
hardship because of peculiar conditions pertaining to the land in question. If you are satisfied that there are peculiar conditions relating to the land in question, actually both properties that relate to this, the criteria has
been met, you can grant it. If you're not satisfied, then you will agree. It's that straightforward. The rest is up to you. >> Thank you, J. >> You're welcome. So, our chance to deliberate
>> I think you're a very lucky man that your neighbors that you have bad blood showed up tonight to support you. >> You're very lucky man. >> Um I think that >> Yeah, you can't say good. >> Um I do believe I do believe that this
is a particular situation. Um, and due to the fact that it is out of public view, it really is not impacting anyone other than these two families. Um, I I would
be concerned what would happen if we required them to remove the trellis. So, I would actually vote for to complete the trellis, try to keep some peace between these people. Um, and uh hopefully we can all learn from
this situation. And I I want to follow up on my colleagues. Uh I I too thank the the Bernies for showing up and helping us deliberate in a positive manner for you, Mr. Fior. I think you I agree with
Russell. You're very lucky that they came and hopefully that will way some of the bad blood between you and your neighbors. Um and I also agree with Russell. Maybe you should think about completing the trellis.
I I I I don't know that that could be a condition. >> Well, we can make this. >> Um interrupt, but I just want to say one thing. There is a condenser there in the way >> that that is the reason I didn't finish it. >> I I I hold on. I mean, I I don't know if
the applicant is able to complete or not. Um, I didn't realize that he didn't finish it because the condenser was in the way of that. Um, I don't know if it's if it's possible, I guess. So, I'll try to do it if possible. Um, >> but isn't there already a 6ft fence
there anyway, Mr. Scrier? So, like how is >> the heating cooling people told me this is why I didn't finish it. The heating cooling people said when the hot air is blowing out of that it needs to escape.
If it pushes back towards the condenser it creates a problem. The 6 ft fence is you know it it has I didn't put it because I thought it created like a tunnel back there for that air to just
keep circulating. But if they want me to put finish it, I will comp I will comply with that. But I didn't do it for any other reason. >> I can't say. Can we have the engineer look at this? >> So, in other words, the answer is yes. >> What's that? >> That you'll finish it. >> I will finish it.
>> Okay. Got it. While we're ahead, we got a yes on the finishing. >> I I echo what my other two colleagues said and I appreciate that the neighbors have come here today. I think that shows that it met the criteria as being positive, not only for you, but for but
for the neighborhood. So, >> okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> In the famous words of Rodney King, can't we just get along? Okay. >> Um, what I see here is Mr. Fury,
these people are angels, okay? They are angels, okay? I have lived in all my life and I'm 74 years old. I've seen people come and go, okay? They are angels. All right. I had people next to door to me. They're like stay on like, you know
what? I don't care. Okay. They got to pay their electric bill. All right. They have already put the shades up. Okay. And I think that privacy is in the eyes of the holder. If I'm looking into, if you see me violating your privacy, you
have a right to speak. But I have heard nothing where these people have violated your privacy other than to have a life in their backyard. But if the trestle is going to solve the problem, let's solve the problem. They don't have a problem with it. You want to finish it. But next time you do some work, I will advise you
go to the city first and make sure it's approved before you take that maverick approach that I'm doing this just because just because it's the reason why you're here. >> Okay. Thank you. >> No, I don't think I need to repeat
myself. I I felt early on design. >> Okay. So, we got a motion. >> I'll make a motion to approve >> uh what is it? 705 Grand Avenue's application >> with the suggestion and the acceptance
by the applicant that they will complete the truss. >> Agreed. >> Correct. Yes. Please. >> Yes. Yeah. Your head shave can't be picked up. >> Yes. I will. I'll second. Okay. Who seconded?
>> John and >> Wendy Glassman. >> Yes. >> Daniel Harris, >> yes. >> Russell Lewis, >> yes. >> Vice Chair Scully, >> yes. >> Chairman Avalone, >> yes. >> And I'll make a motion >> to adjourn the meeting. Thank you.
>> All in favor? Need to go.