Heat. Heat. All right. The meeting of the Landing County Board of Commissioners is called to order. In compliance with the open public meetings act of the state of New Jersey, adequate notice of this meeting at the Atlantic County Board of Commissioners was provided in the following manner.
Published in the press of Atlantic City and mailed to the Hamilton Gazette and has been posted on the bulletin boards in the county office building in Atlantic City distilled water building in Northfield and the county clerk's office in Maze Landing. >> Opening prayer. >> Sure.
>> Almighty God, we are thankful for this nation of which we are a humble part. We are proud of its historic past. We rejoice in its glorious present and pray for its righteous future. Amen. >> Amen. >> At this point, I just want to ask for a brief moment of silence. Our human
resources director here at the county, um Liz Diaono's husband passed away. Um, Hernand Garcus Torres, if we just have a brief moment for heran, thank you. If you asking me to keep Liz and her family in your prayers, Liz,
please place the flag. >> Salute. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all >> roll call please
>> chairman commissioner ruffy will be a few minutes late today >> all right >> here >> Burns >> here >> present >> gate here here. >> Parker >> present. >> Rley >> here. >> D >> here. Commissioners have had an opportunity to review the minutes from
the November 18th, 2025 meeting. I'll entertain a motion to adopt the November 18th minutes as presented. >> Move. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Please call the role. >> Bertino, >> yes. >> Burns, >> yes. >> Days, >> yes. >> Gate, >> abstain. >> Kerna, >> yes. >> Parker, >> yes. >> Grizzley, >> yes. >> D,
>> yes. The board of commissioners will continue to utilize a consent agenda format for sections of the agenda that commissioners do not feel need additional discussion for the board and are not contested. This consent agenda format allows the meetings to run more efficiently and productively so that we can spend additional time during the meeting discussing other important
issues that are not as routine. If any commissioner wishes for additional discussion on any resolution or would like a resolution to be pulled from the consent agenda to be individually addressed for any reason, please advise and we'll do so. for the public prior to the roll call in any resolution or group of resolutions, you will continue to
have an opportunity to comment if you if you wish to do so. Anyone attending in person who would like to speak regarding an agenda item or a public comment, please come to the podium to speak into the microphone. State your name in the town in which you reside. You'll be provided up to three minutes to speak. If you're attending
virtually and like to speak, please raise your hand during the agenda item or a public comment at the end. I'll call your name and a request to unmute will be sent. Please state your name, the town you reside. You'll be provided up to three minutes to speak. And at this time, we have a presentation for the Atlantic County Utilities
Authority by Matt Denafo, the president of the ACUA. All right. Okay. All right. Thanks everybody for having me. I'm going to try to um be cognizant of your time and and keep this short. I know there's a much more important uh presentation after me, so
I'll uh kind of cut right to the chase. We do have um uh six slides, so we're going to go through our presentation just a little bit later in the year, so we're usually further along with our town meetings. We have about eight meetings we finished over the last couple days. Uh we have another 19
meetings to go um to get done by uh December 19th. So that's our kind of uh the gauntlet we run through in the next couple weeks here. So, uh, I appreciate the committee yesterday, too, for for meeting with us. So, we went through this in in in great detail for about an hour and 15 minutes. Uh, so I'm just
going to kind of go through the presentation that I have, and it wouldn't be an ACA presentation if we didn't update you on uh landfill gas collection and capacity. So, we'll start with that quickly. Uh, first the um the first slide, sorry, if you go to the the first slide, it's there. Your
packet has all the details in depth on uh both budgets for our solid waste and our wastewater group. Um so if there's any questions, you all know how to reach out to me. Please feel free to reach out. If you want to stop me at any point in the conversation, please also just ask ask away. Um we always talk about
landfell gas collection. We are constantly looking at ways to improve our gas collection. Uh we did a 18 acre cap, temporary cap in the spring of 2025. Uh we added some upgrades to our control system at our flare system. We added or we're in the process of adding
10 more wells. We have about 130 35 wells that are installed right now collecting gas and that evolves each year. So this year we added 10 more to that. And then as uh this um as as you guys are all aware, we did a uh permanent cap and that was was funded through you know the county. We we
appreciate that and that has actually come to a close. We're just going through some punch list items. 16 acres that was permanently capped uh across a sides slope section of us that really kind of again just the whole envelope allowing us to more efficiently collect gas out at our landfill and then after
these 10 wells that we're doing right now get drilled we'll be putting another four acres of temporary capping in. So we're just kind of moving along where we're actively working in our landfill. Um the next slide talks a little bit about so that's landfill gas. this is what we're doing with the landfill gas and and I appreciate some of the
commissioners that came out uh October 27th for our meeting or for our our ribbon cutting that we had. This is seven years in the making and these are one of these projects that when we look at our wind farm that saved almost $9 million for county uh rate payers, we look at our solar, we look at our
landfill gas to electricity, this is one of those big these big moments. So, this is the first public landfill that's taking their landfill gas, putting it into uh cleaning it up, and putting into the pipeline and generating revenue with this. So, our organization is generating about 1.5 to$ 1.6 million in revenue
each year from this project, which helps keep our rate to be one of the lowest in the entire state. We were able to work through seven years of trying to get this done. So, we started this as an idea in a meeting with South Jersey Gas and they said, "No, we're never going to
put that gas in our in our pipeline." Seven years later, we were celebrating it with them and another partner, Opal Fuels. Uh, so really again a great project for our organization, for the rate payers. It also has a huge environmental impact, too. We're reducing our emission rate from our
flare by 95%. It doesn't run really at all anymore. Um, so that's a huge impact to the the local environment as well, but the money is the other part of too. We talk about green in two different ways, environment and also cost. But, uh, we were able to generate some more revenue from this project and we'll see
that in next year's budget, which is great. Then the last update before I give you a um, yeah, before I give you kind of like the the breakdown of the budget a little bit is our odor complaint. So, the next slide, here's here's what we were dealing with in early 2023. Here's where
we're at right now. You can see April of 2024, a significant drop and it continues to be exactly where we're at. Um, this is this is the status quo of a landfill. This is what you'll see at any landfill site uh across the state, but we are well past where we were in late
2023, early 2024. Then the last thing that is always a hot topic is landfill capacity. So the next slide just shows where we're at with landfill capacity. I've talked about so many different options. This started in April of 2022. I have presented to this board and several other boards as well
as our board and in different meetings 26 times in almost three years on what we're doing and we're finally in a process where we are now seeing traction of our uh capacity increase. So, we met with the county county planning October 27th, went through our pre-application
meeting. We're working through the SWAC process and we hope to be in front of this board sometime in early 2026 with the expansion. This will be an 11-year expansion to bring our capacity to 2040. This is the silver platter that I said I would bring you to say here is the
capacity that you want and you need. The impact on the rate payers for Atlantic County with this is about $25 million a year if this landfill closes prematurely or early. This is a significant impact. This is keeping our rate to where it is right now, the lowest or one of the
lowest in the entire state. Uh we have the highest host community fee and we also double handle our waste. So we're not doing it cheaper than anybody else. It's costing us more to do it, but we're still able to keep our cost down because of projects like that RNG and the way we manage our our our facility. The other update to this is the waste conversion
that we've talking about for about two years. Started that process in 2023 August. Uh, and we went through Office of State Comproller, were able to get a RFQ out, pre-selected three vendors out of eight in December of 2023, and then
the state of New Jersey kicked in. Uh, the bureaucracy of of the controllers's office um slowed us down by about almost two years, 18 months it took us to get through the RFP process. And it was just because there was staff that had changed, moved out of the group, and um, weren't familiar with the Mackenro Act.
So, we had to re-educate the staff there on what that was and and what that RFP would look like. So, the second step was that was releasing that. Took us 18 months to do that. We got that in October and we released that uh about a week or so ago and that went to just three vendors that were pre-selected
from this. So, in 2026, we should be awarding a contract to one vendor for some kind of waste conversion project as well, which could extend uh the life of what we're doing right now, but also be an alternative. and the first really on the east coast and doing something different with your waste besides
burying it or burning it. All right. Now, while everybody is here, the budget. So, the the solid waste budget um not very eventful other than we're trying to keep rates as low as possible. So, on the solid waste side,
we're looking at a 2% increase. And this is not easy to do when costs continue to increase everywhere. Um, so looking at a 2% increase. This is pretty consistent with existing facilities. I think Cumberland's doing a three and a half%.
I think Kate May did a 2%, but we're all kind of within that realm. We tried to keep it below what the inflation rate was. Uh, some of the things that are driving that really mainly is our our administrative support um services is up 15%. And what's really contributing to that is the lawsuit that we are dealing
with. Uh, we had to budget $ 1.5 million in next year's budget. We've spent about $1.7 million in this lawsuit. And I can't stress what this lawsuit means, not just for Atlantic County, but for the entire state and all 12 landfills
that are in the state. If there is a settlement, if there is a loss, this sets a precedent for every single landfill across the state. This is um the stuff that we found really is throwing stuff against the wall, but
we'll we're working through that. But it but we have to defend this. This is there's a lot at stake for here for our taxpayers and our rateayers in the county. So this is expensive to do, but it's really expensive if we don't. So um that's that's a lot of what our increase
is. So it's gobbling up that that RNG revenue. So we're on the revenue side. We're seeing about $1.3 million come in from the RNG project. That's being kind of gobbled up with this lawsuit, which is a little frustrating because we could be putting it towards something that's a little bit more beneficial. and it will because that's going to be a yearly
revenue stream for us, right? So once we get past this, we move forward, we'll see that revenue and that'll continue to help offset uh what our costs are. Uh we also had to increase our cell wall replacement. We reduced that last year and that's just the um a few dollars
that go into each ton that help us with whether it's building a new cell or it's changing the way our transfer station acts to have to manage waste in the future. So you have to build up a capital for that. So that's what that is. um revenue is up 5% uh and that's really
because of the uh RNG project that I spoke about earlier and that's uh the solid waste side of things. Is there any questions on the solid waste go? Mr. Bertino. >> Hey, Mr. Chairman. Yeah, just a quick one on you talked about the uh cost that
we're having for that lawsuit litigation uh and the impact I know is going to have on uh however it turns out it's going to impact all the other landfills. Have any of them asked to join you in fighting u and supporting your case since it's going to impact everybody across the state anyway?
>> So that's part of our plan but we're just not there yet. So, we just finished our discovery and deposition stage, and now we're kind of working on, I guess, briefs, if you will, not attorney, so I'm probably using the wrong terms and looking at Commissioner Ruffu, who's probably like, "That's not what he's doing." Uh, but we haven't we haven't
gotten to court yet. So, so sometime, probably mid 2026, we will be looking at that. There's a lot of uh state agencies or state organizations that were a part of, Landfill Alliance, Swana, Aea will also engage as well. you know, if I'm them, I'd be looking at what you're
doing obviously because it's going to impact the entire state for disposal that any of that part of that litigation comes to fruition. >> Yeah, it hasn't hit their pocket yet. So, we'll we'll make it very clear that >> it will. >> All right, that's interesting. Are there
any other commissioner comments or questions? >> So, I just have the wastewater side now. I just want to stop at the solid waste. Okay. >> And then the wastewater budget. Uh again, another, you know, we're just going with a 2% increase on this. Um both of these budgets, one of the things
that's really helping us keep these rates down is is our health insurance. So, we were able to get out of the state health insurance plan September 1st. And, you know, again, talking about dodging a bullet. Three years ago, we probably wouldn't have been able to do that because of our claims history. Uh we were able to get a good claims
history and be able to get a um um insurance plan that met the same requirements as a state plan did. and we avoided a 36% increase would have been $2 million under our budget. So 2% is about $600,000 when you're looking at our budget. So $2 million just right off
the bat uh would be what we'd be dealing with when it comes to insurance uh costs. So we were able to do that and we know as we met with towns last year that that is a huge topic for a lot of including the county. It's such a a tough thing for them to have to deal with. So trying to keep that rate as low
as possible was important for us this year uh as they're kind of dealing with that. Next year could be another story. You know, we're frozen until the end of July or end of August, but that is providing us a significant amount of savings. So, that's helping us on both sides of the operation. Um, our rate
history for wastewater, so similar to solid waste is the lowest. Um, there's a there's a little map in there that shows kind of what the wastewater rate is, but if you look at the last 10 years, we've actually reduced our rate twice and cumulatively looking at our rate
increase. So we have a 2% this year. Over 10 years, we've only cumulatively increased our rate just under 7%. Um that's because we've had those two rate decreases that we've done. So in 2017 and 2021, we we reduced the rate by about $1.5 million.
Operating expenses for us are up a little bit uh a little over three and a half%. Part of that is uh salaries. There is a uh step system over at our waste treatment plant. So some of them are moving past a four or 5% uh increase on their steps. Health benefits are flat. Chemicals for us is a big cost.
That was um a decrease, which we've seen that rise over the last five years, which is great to see that finally go down. I think the market is kind of stabilizing with the unknowns of transportation and costs and all the other things that were kind of driving prices up that we were seeing in those bids. Natural gas is down just because
of usage. The big number that's driving us up is the electricity cost. And this doesn't have to do with what we're doing as far as what everybody else has experienced with electricity costs. We've had a fixed rate for 20 years because of our wind farm. Uh we've saved almost $9 million from a fixed rate
since 2006. Uh March 14th, 2006. Our rate was set at 0.79 uh 0.079 cents a kilowatt hour and has been that for 20 years. 60% of our power is built at that. The contract is up now. The
wind farm is staying there. Five to 10 more years left of life on that. So, it's not a 20-year lifespan, which everybody kind of assumed. We're going to get 30 out of that thing. It's in a great it's in great shape. The price is going up a little bit. So, we had gotten a price for about 26% increase, and we're just kind of working on negotiating that down a little bit more
from now, but we are expecting that price to go up. So, that's kind of driving uh most of the the cost increase on the wastewater side. And then on the revenue, um, we're seeing an increase from the revenue, obviously from the the 2% increase, but we also are offsetting it with sludge. So, we are regional
responsibility for sledge disposal for the state. We take Kate May, we take Hamilton, we used to take Millville, we take Lambertville, uh, and and several other small ones. Camden County often sends us their sludge as a revenue. It's offsetting our cost, but we can't count
on their equipment to be down. So, we never know when that's actually going to come to us. About a month ago, they told us that they're taking their equipment down for two years. And they said, "Can can we can you take our sledge?" I said, "Sure, yeah, we we'll we'll take it." Because we're generating that extra
revenue that helps offset our costs. So, now we're able to budget that and count on that for the next two years. So, that's really kind of helped us um balance a lot of things. And that's it. I'm going to stop there if there's questions about uh wastewater, solid waste, or anything uh else that we
talked about tonight. >> All right, Matthew. Thank you. Are there any commissioner comments or questions? >> No, I just commission uh just I had the uh opportunity to go and um actually
like drop off trash at the at the uh at the dump. Yeah, >> the first time I ever had to do that one. Um and it's a great way to get out aggression, by the way. >> But um it was uh just wanted to say the employees were really friendly, really helpful. Um, and it was actually a
pretty clean experience, which surprising when you're driving into a building full of trash, but >> the transfer station's not a pretty place, but yes, I'm glad you say it. >> But, uh, but I just wanted to to say like for me as a a lay person, it was a very easy and um and uh and good experience. So, just want to say thanks.
>> Great. Thank you very much. And and the offer is always open for tours. I know that um Commissioner Rzley and and Bertina were interested in taking a tour of the facility after the RNG project was online to kind of walk through that, but also to see the the permanent cap. It's a pretty impressive to kind of see
that wrapping around the site, too. So, >> all right. All right. >> Great. Thank you. And one last thing, uh Commissioner Gota, I just want to wish you the best of luck. This may be my last meeting. I'm happy that you're here. So, I just want to wish you a nice nice holiday and uh thank you for all that you've done for the county over the years and and the best of luck in your
your future endeavors. Thanks for all you've done. You've been a great partner, Matt. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> All right, man. Thank you very much. Um, at this time, um, County Executive Lemonson has asked to speak, so at this point, executive,
I don't forget in the end, Amy, I'm losing my favorite freeholder. >> I thought that was me. I'm his favorite commissioner. I thought I was >> Good thing my good thing my favorite county executive is still here. >> You'll always be freeholders to me. Um I
appreciate this opportunity to speak to you. Uh there seems to be a lot of passion right now about the prison, either the old prison or the new prison. And I understand why people are excited, why there is
passion about it. In Hamilton, it's your homes. In Maze Landing, it's your homes. Living near a prison is not desirable anymore than it is living near a landfill
or an airport or a shooting range. But our situation is such that we have to make a decision. In reality, you have to make the decision. And I believe it's important that you
understand the factors as they are now. I have not heard the presentation that you're going to hear today. You'll be hearing it for the first time and I will circumstances are going to be the same,
but you have to make a choice. No one wants a prison in their backyard, but also no one wants a prison in their front yard. So, it's like dueling banjos.
You have a prison, a justice facility, a lockup in Maze Landing that is surrounded by three schools. And you will have, if it comes to fruition, a lockup, a jail, a prison in
Winslow Township in Camden County, which by the way makes it a little confusing because it's a Hamilton mailing address. And a lot of the calls that I've received from both sides, I try to uh be
as objective as I can. and a dear friend called and we spoke and asked what I thought and I said what I thought and then he responded that uh what he thought I thought. So he asked me what I
thought then told me what he thinks I thought which trust me I have not made up my mind any more than you have because we haven't heard exactly what is going to occur.
Our present facility right now has to be replaced. It is too expensive for us to fix it up. It's a 41-year-old facility. It's going to cost us millions to
replace certain things. Locks the uh windows. The ceilings are low. We have backups all the time. If we want to fix a pipe, we have to um really hammer through 12 inches of concrete.
It's a problem. Can we add on to it? Possibly. Can we knock down what we have? Possibly. Now, as far as Hamilton is concerned and their concern about Winslow Township, 35
mi uh 13 miles away from the border is a problem for them and people are concerned and I understand their concern. But let me caution you.
This lockup will be there whether we are part of it or not. It'll be a either a twocount or a threecount or a 4count lock up at this present time in Anora. It's 650
acres. There's right now close to 600. What's proper? Is mental case proper anymore? People that are >> insane. >> What are they? >> Patient.
>> Patients that are in one way or the other insane. They're there and the prison will be there with or without us. And with or without us, Jamesburg is going to be closed and they're going to build a huge facility
for juveniles in those 650 acres. So, you really can't win for losing this one. Now, to keep that in mind, one way or the other, it's going to be there. But as long that's embedded with you, why not just fix up
the jail that we have? Well, it's going to be extraordinarily expensive. It's antiquated. Can we build next to it? Very possibly. If that's what you all wish to do, and we're going to have to knock down, haul it away. How much is that going to be?
And the complaints I get from Maze Landing when I get these calls, we want it out of here. We've had it long enough. We need that space in the industrial park for a raidable. We could have We could have leased it 10
times over if it wasn't for that facility that you have. We want it out. We have paid our price, our fair share, and we don't want it anymore in in Maze
Landing, and Hamilton doesn't want it in Windinslow. You're going to have to make a decision. Of course, I have veto power and uh but I am confident that you'll make the right
decision and it's going to be a difficult one because it's a political hot potato and I know that and I know how important to anybody that's running that Hamilton Township Maze Landing is and how h important Hamilton is.
But in the best interest of public safety, that's should be your concern. And I don't really know which way this is going to go. But I do know that uh it certainly is not going to go
smoothly. And you're going to have arguments and good arguments on both sides why it shouldn't be where it is. by we're living 13 miles away from a prison. By the way, a huge lock up with juveniles. And by the way, these are no
longer the dead end kids. I mean, these kids are serious criminals. And also have the criminally insane that are there. By the way, over 560 inmates, I believe, that are there at this patients. And also, you're going to have
two counties, Hamden and Cumberland County, that are going to be there with or without us. Now, we have to decide, and I'm going to tell you flat out, we're going to should look at it monetarily. Going in, how much is it going to cost?
Staying where we are, how much is it going to cost? How does that going to affect people in our county in Maze Landing that want that space and want that prison out of there? God forbid if there is a problem there because of the antiquated facilities
that they're in right now with three schools, special services, ACIT, and HS school right around there. And I know an argument from Hamilton was, well, the jail was there first. You're absolutely right. It's the same argument, by the
way, with the odor from the landfill. The landfill was there first. We can go on and on to add infinitum. Uh so what I I'm just letting you know is
this is what you're going to be up against. And uh uh besides the fact that I get paid more as a county executive than you do, I'm glad I'm not in your position right now because uh you do have a decision you have to make. and
one freeholder has made it very clear anybody that for is for this you still feel the same way Mr. Martina, >> as I stated to you many months ago when the first discussion we had came up, the county seat is where we put all our
facilities. We have the prosecutor's office here. We have the courthouse here. We have the jail there. We have the special services district there. That's why it's located in the county seat so everyone around the county can get to it equally.
placing it to another county or even to the farthest end of our county without looking at how we're going to impact the court system. Transportation of prisoners back and forth. The logistics of it alone is going to be expensive. The startup costs are going to be expensive. But as I said, I have an open
mind. I will listen. I will ask a lot of questions so all the commissioners have the same information we all should have. and then you make the indecision you guys feel you need to make. But I don't see how it'll work.
>> But I'm under I'm willing to listen. >> I'm glad. But to answer you, we also have the public defender. We have three floors of social services. >> We have the civil courthouse in >> all there.
>> No, in Atlantic City, not in the not in uh >> Maze Landing. that your courthouse said that you do the district we have in Maze Landing. What do we actually do there? >> There's no criminal cases. There's no prisoners that come from Lanny County Jail that go there for disposition.
>> What I'm saying is we don't have all our county facilities that are in >> the we have county facilities that are in Atlantic City public defender, three floors of welfare. We have eight floors of county office building, the administrative building, legal, and we
also have the county court uh the civil courthouse there. So that uh you know, you can juggle that any way you want. And I understand your passion. You're from Hamilton. Would I want it in my backyard? No. Would I want it in my front yard? No. Danny, it's not about
where it's located. It's about the efficiency of the operation. And that's what I'm looking at because I think it's going to have an impact. If I ask judges there, if I ask prosecutors, do you want to transport prisoners back and forth? There's the sheriff's department's going to have to talk about personnel,
equipment moving back and forth, but that's got to come in our discussions as we're making the decision, which I'm willing to listen to because I think we need to hear from everybody. >> I I'm glad you softened on your position. >> There's no softening, but I'll >> said anybody Jimmy, you said anybody
that's for this is a Have you softened that up? >> No. >> Okay. So, this is what you have right now. And uh and all we have to do is listen to what it is. How much is it going to
cost? What about safety? And what about the future? These are the things you're going to have to weigh. We don't know. I don't know. How much is it going to cost? Are we going to knock down the jail if we keep it there? Are we going to build next to it? Can we fix it while we have 700 prisoners in there? Holy
mackerel, everybody. I don't like workmen. I don't even like lawyers going into that facility. You know, the dope doesn't come in through uh osmosis. I mean, we have attorneys that have smuggled things into that jail. So, we don't know what's
going to be going on if we have at say a workspace. >> So, these are a lot of things you have to weigh. And uh I appreciate, you know, I am confident of one thing and I want to make this clear. I don't think any county executive or any county could
have a finer commission board than I have and the people that you are serving. So I am confident you will come to the right decision. I appreciate this time. Thank you. Thank you county executive. You just reminded me of a quote from the
talented Mr. Ripley but a a I hate him when you call him a I think it was a quote something like that. Anyway, >> it was a paper copy at a bad time. >> So, at this time we will have um as our county executive said the um jail regional jail update presentation that
none of us have on the board have seen. County executive himself has said he hasn't seen it. Uh but it's an update presented by Carter Goldman Lee whom I believe that on not the names of any of the speakers today. Is that correct? Okay. after the room >> while they're coming up. Did I hear that
uh the vote to move the commissioner meetings to Maze Landing like I've been asking for since 2016 since it's the county seats? >> Soon as they soon as they do the repairs of the building we asked for 10 years ago that there soon as they approve that
>> I I that's what I wanted. >> I'm ready. >> Me too. It's closed. What else I heard was I just substracted my water. >> Yes. >> Mr. Ross Ross is the Camden County administrator. >> Okay. >> And Ros also introduced the team that
that we put together for this regional jail and then you'll we'll start the presentation. >> Sure. Yeah. I'm sorry. Commissioner, you have a question already? >> Yeah, I have one already. Just a quick one. Um, and just bear with me because you know I I wasn't aware you were
coming in and stuff other than it's on the agenda which is fine. We talked about it with Denny before. Uh, do you represent LA County? You working for LA County right now or are you working for Camden County? >> I'm the Camden County administrator. >> That's fine. Are you I know >> faceless bureaucrat in Camden County.
>> I didn't know if this is like I didn't know if you had been working with Atlantic County government previously and >> I've worked with Jerry for many many years >> that you I knew that as administrator you would. I'm talking about your team that's presenting the uh the presentation today. >> I'm going to uh introduce them.
>> Thank you. >> Okay. >> So, >> um so we have two officials from Carter Global Lee. They are the preeminent construction erections construction
uh firm in the country. And so who we have here is Ed Watley. Watley and we have Wayne Free is also here from CGL and then we have Chip Vaughn from the Vaughn Collaborative. He's also another person
in this business and he's working with CGL. In addition to that, we also have Sharon Bean. Stand up, Sharon. Raise your She's our jail population manager. We have um Holly Cass who's a deputy
county administrator and really the brains behind this project and um well we I'm sorry and Robin Payer. So u we actually have a lot
of people here from CGL. Um, I have David McPeek, who is uh our financial person who used to work for me as the chief financial officer. And who am I missing? >> Anybody? >> No. Okay. So,
thank you for inviting us present this project to you. I understand that there is a lot of controversy about this. One thing I think you might all agree on is that you need a new jail. If you agree on that, I'm here to
respectfully make the case to you that coming with us and engaging economies of scale is the cheapest, fastest, and best way to take care of this problem. How did we get here? Like most counties,
Hampton County needed to build it needs to build a new jail. The jail that it has right now started when I came to work for Camden County. That was 42 years ago. Um, we need a new jail. And we started
looking at this and trying to figure out how we would pay for it. And of course, the first thought was, well, we'll issue bonds. Not necessarily the best way to go. um even if we could do it within our debt
limit, uh Wall Street would likely punish us in our bond rating. So, there is a new law. It's called the Rehabilitation and Re-entry Facility Law. And under that
law, a separate entity would be created and the cost of everything having to do with your jail would be taken out of the Atlantic County budget. That includes, by the way, transportation. You would not be
responsible for transportation. the central entity that is going to be created and have equal representation between Atlantic County if you decided to come with us, Cumberland County and Camden County. We would run this thing
equally. You would be build in accordance with your jail populations. We each have different populations, although I understand that Atlantic and Camden County have fairly close populations. So,
the objective of the South Jersey Rehabilitation and Re-entry Facility will be to do exactly what its name says. That name was not chosen randomly. We are hoping to rehabilitate and facilitate re-entry of people to stop
the in and out of jail of people in all of our jails. Is it going to be 100% successful? No. But I will tell you that in other jurisdictions, one in Ohio that we looked at, they were able to lower their
recidivism defined as stay out of jail for a year by 80%. I'd be happy with 10%, but we're going to go for the 80. Um, so the goal of it is to cretail the revolving door in and out of jail.
So most of the people in your jail probably go in and out and and that's a problem and it's a great cost all of our counties. I'm going to defer the cost issue to Ed Watley and CGL. He's going to come here and tell you
exactly what we think that's going to be. And we believe that you will save if you come with this threecount collaborative as opposed to trying to build an equivalent facility for yourself. Um
I will tell you a lot of changes and you you already know this have happened in the jail industry over the last 40 years. The architect who designed the Camden County Jail, his experience was designing hotels.
There was no thought given to how you might design a facility to maximize treatment so that these folks will not be coming back as often as they do. And that that's a key difference uh in what
we're trying to get done. So he's Mr. Dr. Watley is going to come up here and talk to you about the cost, but we believe that you will save money coming with us. The actual timeline for doing this, we we hope to open a
facility Q1 or Q2331. five years by the way that's five years of construction jobs um that will be um done with this the facility as you know will be located
on the grounds of Winslow and and you all all you folks live down here I I know you know that occasionally people walk off the grounds of Anora not necessarily the greatest situation um when we show up there it will be a
lot more secure are a lot more secure. But that's one point. The >> Excuse me. I met one >> and Coral Liquors. That's where they go. Yeah, I know. >> Yeah, that's it's ex he's not kidding. Yes.
>> Um, so under the law, this South Jersey, the regional rehabilitation and re-entry facility law, each participating county will be effectively out of the jail business. So what does that mean? All the costs that
you pay right now to run and operate that jail will be taken out of your levy, out of your budget and they will reside with the central entity which you will have equal representation on uh along with the other two counties each we envision each
warden being on the board. Um, this is something that I I I want to emphasize the this new facility being designed, it will be designed by Carter Global Lee will be way safer than any
jail that exists in South Jersey. Now, I'm in Camden County. I'm the chair of our insurance commission and every month we hear workers compensation cases about uh staff and and corrections officers
who are injured in our jail. This jail will be designed to maximize safety. It'll be designed it'll be a much better place to work. Your We have been talking for two or three years now, right Holly?
three years with the FOP and the PBA. They're both so far they're in favor of this project because they understand what it will provide their members. So, it'll support staff recruitment and
retention. I I don't know what your issue is with staffing for your jail, but I will tell you that we have a problem. We are about 90 corrections officers short. It's not easy to find people to do this job. It's a difficult
job. Um, but if we all get together, again, economies of scale, we can help each other out with that. Each county will, as I said, will share in the composition and administration of the central entity. Equal
representation. It'll be built in accordance with the best practices and state-of-the-art policies and procedures. That's why we hired CGL. They are the preeminent firm in the country. They've been doing this for over 50 years. This is all they do.
This is not their first rodeo. Finally, and you, County Executive Levenson did, I think mention this, demolition of your old jail might create some economic um development opportunities. Um, and again, the the chief goal of
this is not simply to warehouse people in advance of trial. That's easy. We could build a corrugated steel building and throw them in there. What we're trying to do is something that will facilitate trying to stop these folks from being on
the wrong path, which obviously they are. They go in and out of jail. Um, this is the rehabilitation and re-entry facility. That is the focus. So, with that, I think I'm going to invite Ed Wley up here. He is from CGL and he
knows his stuff. Thank you, Ross. Uh, thank you, commissioners, for the opportunity to speak today. Um, my name is Ed Widley. I'm the director of program management uh for CGL. I have with me other team members that I will introduce here in a second. Next slide, please.
This is the agenda that we have prepared for today's presentation. Certainly uh we are not bound to this. If there are questions that come up throughout the presentation, we're happy to take those either during the presentation or at the end of the presentation. Next slide, please. >> Cardig uh the company that that we
represent today, uh as Ross mentioned, we've been in the criminal justice business for over 50 years. And one thing we've learned to be very true, and that is when you talk about criminal justice, you can't talk about simply the physical plant or the operations. they're so interwoven, you really have to talk about everything at once. Uh and
so, uh we focus on really addressing every aspect of a criminal justice organization and facility. Uh starting with program management, starting with site selection, uh forecasting, population projection, uh planning, programming, all the way through the design, the construction management, transition activation, and then on
through uh life cycle planning, uh facility management. Um the reason we do this again is that we try to provide holistic solutions. As you're well aware, criminal justice facilities, criminal justice organizations are very complicated. Uh and so by focusing on holistic uh client service, we make sure
that we try to provide uh complete answers to the problems and the challenges uh that organizations face. Next slide, please. We have a team uh of over 100 people that are available to work on this project. I have five people in the room with me today. Again, my name is Ed
Wadley. I am the director of program management. I also have Khloe Jacob. Khloe has been with Cardigle uh for over 25 years. She's our director of planning. Khloe has worked on justice facilities across the country. Also, Dr. Robin uh Dr. Robin Timmy, a
psychologist. Uh very familiar, a industry expert uh in behavioral health as relates to the criminal justice system. Wayne Free uh extremely familiar with construction management uh in particular modular construction within the detention community. And last, Chip
Vaughn. Chip is here. He's been working on detention facilities in New Jersey for for many decades. Uh he's our local partner. Uh he's an expert at delivering public works projects in the state of New Jersey. Next slide, please. >> Please. >> I do want to say one other thing. the
cost of all this talent that we've hired, we've been able to secure over $30 million over the last three or four years from the state of New Jersey, which we are spending for the good of this project for all counties, and that
includes the cost of all these folks. Thank you. >> So, we'd like to do a deep dive on many of the things that Ross has already mentioned. I'd like to start by asking Chip uh to come and give a more detailed background on how we got to this point, how Camden uh and Cumberland got to the
point of supporting uh the S&J RRC, the New Jersey, Southern New Jersey Rehabilitation and Re-entry Center. Uh through this throughout this presentation, you're going to hear many common threads of of the information we're going to provide. Um, basically I
was brought on board uh under a previous iteration of this facility about 10 years ago in Burlington County. Um, was interested in this concept. Uh, CGL was not on board at that time, but Camden County never lost interest. Uh what
happened with that initiative is we couldn't find a proper site and we met resistance and obviously the intent was to position it in Cumberland County and we had uh we're unable to do that. So but with Camden's interest in
introducing um CGL to the process uh it's not only no longer a detention facility, a regional detention facility, it's a re-entry and rehabilitation facility. And this is uh what they're doing nationally and I'm working with
them on not with them directly. They're advising Department of Corrections and we're working on the new women's prison which is going to be in Burlington County. The concept is to certainly um offer uh not only treatment but make it
a little more user friendly for the incarcerated people. at the same time being keenly focused on the security and safety of the people working there and make that environment uh very good for
that work experience. Next slide. Um when we when we started this process um with the inability to find a site, we were fortunate enough to have Camden
research it through Holly and Ross and by the way they shephered the legislation through for the for the authority uh documentation through the state and u they they had located core as a potential site and that is where
we're looking at currently. Next slide. uh operational par parameters we went over uh uh transportation and certainly the authority would have full control over the transportation of IPS incarcerated people where they're
picked up satellite facilities and taken to uh the regional facilities coordination of all that is will be coordinated with local municipalities and the counties Um main point is uh discourage uh re repeat
offenders from coming back to the facility the re recidism that we spoke about. Um >> that being said sure >> some of the operating parameters again uh the SNJ RRC will be a new operating
entity governed by its own authority a newly created authority uh that authority will have the power to uh tax citizens directly as Ross mentioned uh the cost and taxes associated with the current facility will come out uh the county budget and be the responsibility of the authority
uh the staff will be employees of the uh regional uh facility authority uh but there will be no loss of existing benefits as Ross mentioned this has the support of several organizations associated with the staff um the operating intent is that local law
enforcement agencies upon making arrest will transport detainees uh to satellite facilities located in the various counties from there the authority will have the responsibility to transport the individual uh to the regional facility ility while in custody. They will be in
the custody of the authority in in the authorities's custody until they returned uh for release. Next slide, please. I do think it's important to directly address the question of why we need a new facility and why communities may come to the to the decision that a new
facility is needed. Um certainly there are a lot of things that that a lot of problems you can have uh with existing facilities. Some of those problems include uh not necessarily limited to outdated design. Certainly facilities design currently look a lot different than they did uh generations ago. Uh
construction deficiencies uh physical plant problems, deferred maintenance problems. You know, you get to a point where an existing facility may not work. Um capacity deficiencies, you overcrowding if you don't have enough space for the people you're trying to detain. And also capability deficiencies. uh incarcerated
individuals today need different things than than you might have seen uh previously. Things like mental health treatment, substance abuse treatment, re-entry support. Um it is possible and some people look uh and and uh determine that attempting to retrofit or upgrade an existing facility, but many uh
organizations look and understand that it is cost prohibitive to try to upgrade an existing facility uh to meet current standards and current needs. um and they come to the decision that a new facility is the best course of action. Uh this obviously represents a major investment of public funds. We are certainly aware
of that and so it's only fair to ask and answer the question, you know, what benefits can the public expect to see as a result of this investment? Next slide, please. We like to talk about the concept of better outcomes. If we were to ask different people in the community, uh, commissioners, if we were to ask, uh,
just everyday citizens, uh, certainly families of the incarcerated, victims of crime, uh, people work the facilities, people the facilities, what an improved outcome may look like, we'd get a lot of different answers. Some of the things that we hope to achieve through uh, designing and building and operating new
modern detention facilities. Uh, this includes improved public safety, reduced recidivism, right? the idea that we're going to try to equip people with the skills uh once they're released to stay out and not continue coming back. Certainly reduced incidents of violence,
inmate on inmate, inmate on staff and even staff on inmate. Um reduced liability for participating organizations. Better staff working conditions. It is a challenge to attract and recruit and retain qualified staff. Better working conditions we believe
will aid in that effort and certainly cost optimization. We do believe that uh due to e economies of scale, larger facilities uh are more costefficient. Um but how do modern facilities help achieve these better outcomes? Uh to
answer that question, I'd like to call on Dr. Robin Timmy and also Khloe JGO. Uh they are going to do more of a deep dive into the benefits of modern detention facilities. >> Thank you, Ed. We're the fun ones. Um, and I think Ed's done a great job of
hitting a lot of u points here. If you don't mind going to the next slide, >> I think if you've toured your own facility, we've actually been in your jail and your courthouse se >> for work. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yes. Let's clarify. We have toured them and talked to the whole criminal justice system, all your different stakeholders because you're
right. This is a system and how would the county is going to function overall is paramount to us. But when we talk about just the the the detention facility itself and we talk about what are the benefits of a modern facility, we'd love to take people on tours because it is hard. You only know kind
of what you've seen, but I'm sure you're very aware that the population that you're housing today is much different than it was 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago, right? We're seeing a lot more of issues with health care needs and aging of population and mental health concerns,
keep separates, gangs, uh you know, different nationalities, language barriers. I mean, just everything you could imagine is compiling the facility and trying to figure out how to manage it. And so, a lot of that does come into the area that I like to work in, which is space and the type of space we need. And so, I think it's just important to
know that we want to talk about outcomes. safety first, obviously public safety, and then better outcomes for those incarcerated, the family going there, and the staff, and all of the justice stakeholders themselves. >> Yeah. So, I'm Robin Timmy, and I'm a
clinical psychologist, and I often wonder why I end up in spaces like this. But then I meet people like Khloe who teach me about concepts like purpose-built design, and that's what we talk about today. So, I spent the first half of my career uh as the chief psychologist in the state of Delaware's
14 correctional facilities and I left because I believed that we could have a better impact on policy across the country and build facilities that actually do what we want them to do. So, I spent all those years delivering services, mental health services in facilities that were never designed to
do that. And what we've learned about purpose-built design is that we begin by studying the population of the people who are going to come into the front door of the facility. Atlantic County reflects a lot that's happening across the country and it's also unique in some ways. The people who come through your front door have a risk profile that is
much higher than most places. Meaning that you're doing a better job of keeping people in jail who have been charged with indictable offenses and who pose a public risk. What that means is that you have a population that's more likely to be violent, population that's going to be staying with us for a little
while, and a population that has high needs, things like behavioral health needs, serious mental illness, substance use disorders. And knowing that obligates us as a society to do something while we have them in our custody and our care. If we want to
create safer communities, we need to create healthier communities. We also see the same thing with the staff. correctional officers present with the same levels of post-traumatic stress disorder and other uh medical and behavioral health conditions because of the toxic stress of the places that they
work. And we need to create safer working environments that have better outcomes for our staff as well. Attract, recruit, retain, promote, and celebrate all of our correctional officers and the non-uniform staff that work there. >> Yeah. The service providers, the volunteers and chaplain, all the people
that come to this facility. And so when we have this conversation, only then do we start talking about the spaces that are needed to support that. And when you think about all those things I just said and then you walk through your current jail, they just don't exist to do those things.
>> Next slide. >> So we are asking our systems now to do something different than we did previously and not to shoehorn things in. And so we have an opportunity here to engage in a dialogue with communities, three communities hopefully, to identify what are those needs so that we can meet them
responsively and return citizens to the community who are less likely to engage in the behaviors that led them to our front door in the first place. And >> I think when you look at the newer designs and best practices, the mindset is uh not on containment like it was in
the past. It's more on management and engagement to get better outcomes. So again, we need to have the spaces near where the housing are to provide programs and access to services and to have the justice stakeholders have access to them and that includes you know use of technology right how we can
better improve the system itself through that and you can see here I mean obviously compliance with a you know a all types of different applicable standards whether it's from the American correctional association the national healthc care uh standards for corrections um there's y state
standards, PRIA. So, all of that has to come into play into coming into the best environment that's going to meet all the requirements and also the needs of your population. >> Yeah, if you go to the next slide, you'll just see a list of some of those services that are required in facilities today. And remember that word required
is really important. There are constitutional obligations for things like health care today that didn't exist when this building was built. Uh and those are things like having an infirmary, a place that is below the level of care of a hospital but above that of general population. Right now in
your facility, they're taking uh medical patients out to hospitals and off-site because they don't have those capabilities. And each person that goes off site requires a twoman backup, two officers. They don't have to spare in the facility right now. So these are efficiencies that are really important
to meet those constitutional requirements as well. >> Right. And just another benefit of having kind of the regional collaboration, bringing the everybody together, getting those services to one spot that everybody can benefit from. >> I'll pass the mic now. >> All right. Thank you.
>> So, if you come to the uh conclusion that a new facility is needed, uh then the question becomes what is the best way to deliver that new facility? Um we're going to present I guess the logic or the reasoning behind the regional facility and a lot of this grounded in cost and very specifically we believe
that due to economies of scale a regional facility is the most costefficient uh option to build operate and maintain uh a new facility uh for southern New Jersey. Next slide please. Just a a brief background. I'm sure most
people are very familiar with this, but economies of scale basically says that larger operations can do things more effectively. This is not something we come up with. Uh this is, you know, certainly something that that is studied uh business schools across the country. Uh in the case of this facility, next
slide, please. You know, really, uh larger facilities, larger regional facilities uh are more efficient, more costefficient uh to build, maintain, and operate than comparable smaller county facilities. Um said differently, uh the cost uh to build, maintain, and operate
one 30,000 bed facility will be less than the collective cost to build three 1,000 bed facilities. When we talk about cost, we measure cost in terms of cost uh total cost per detainee per inmate per day. Next slide, please.
Um the economies of scale we see in a single detention facility. Uh you can see them in lots of different places. Uh some of them are are in design. uh in terms of the total number of square feet uh per bed. When you take uh support spaces and spread them out among more people, you have less support space uh
per every single bed. Construction cost. Certainly larger facilities are going to be cheaper uh to build in terms of a cost per square foot than comparably built smaller facilities. Uh staffing costs, staffing efficiencies go up uh with more uh detainees in one facility.
inmate services. You know, a lot of the services that are present in a facility are contracted out, food service, medical service, healthcare, things of that nature. Uh certainly the larger the the greater the number of detainees that are served uh the more efficient the price is for those inmate services.
Next slide, please. I mentioned earlier uh that we at CGL attempt to talk in terms of holistic service and and as a result of that, we also talk in terms of total cost of ownership. But we can't simply talk in terms of the project cost or the construction cost. We really have to
look at all cost associated uh with a facility. Both the physical plant cost, the construction cost, the maintenance cost, but also the long-term operating cost. You know, again, facility operations are very closely tied uh to facility design, construction, maintenance. And that's true in a lot of
industries. Certainly health care. If you go to a hospital, a healthc care operation is very closely tied uh to the design and construction of the facility. And that is absolutely the case uh in detention and corrections. Um you know certainly operations current operations uh could vary significantly in new
facilities as opposed to old facilities. And so we have to make sure that we give uh the organizations we work for a planning tool and a budgeting tool to help them understand uh what the long-term costs are going to be. And that's why we speak in terms of total cost of ownership. Next slide please.
When we looked at the total cost of ownership uh for the uh southern New Jersey Regional Rehabilitation Re-entry Center, uh we certainly looked at things like the project cost. Uh we converted the projected project cost into annual debt service payments, uh annual preventive maintenance, things you do on
an annual basis to make sure the facility is maintained along with life cycle replacement cost, replacing equipment and building components to make sure the building continues to operate uh in the manner needed by the organization. uh staffing cost, uh cost for inmate services, uh transportation
cost, you know, I heard him mentioned earlier the cost between the the facility uh and the uh county satellite facilities. Those costs are included uh in the cost projections we have done. Uh and certainly uh other you know there's thousands of different operating costs. We've attempted to account for all those
costs with the cost projections we've done. You know, subsequent cost models we expect will refine these costs further. Uh but the concept of economies of scale holds true. Um you know the larger the facility we believe the more efficient uh the operations can be in
terms of cost. Next slide please. >> Go back one slide if I could. May I have missed one? Well I I'll interject this. The costs that are presented here are simply um uh projections. Certainly these are not final cost. Uh but we believe that these are educated
projections based on our experience, our professional judgment. I don't want anyone to say that these are absolute binding final cost but certainly the the final cost will vary uh once uh certain variables are turned into facts but again the concept of economies of scale
we believe holds true. Next slide please. There's my disclaimer. Certainly uh these projections based on historical data, reasonable assumptions and the best judgment of our project team. Uh but certainly you know we can't predict future events with absolute certainty.
Um so it is possible that that the cost uh from years 2031 and beyond may differ may differ up may differ down but again due to economies of scale we still believe that the regional facility uh is the most costefficient uh alternative. Next slide.
These are the cost that we are projecting for the regional facility. This is the entire facility for all three participating counties. Um this includes uh yearly debt service. We we listed out the first five years. Uh certainly uh we we carried the projections on for about a 30-year
period. Uh but highlighting the first five years here. Uh debt service uh for the new facility we projected around $103 million. Uh utilities maintenance life cycle replacement uh we show in year one around around $19.5 million. Uh
staffing cost we projected around $73 million. and then other operating costs, transportation costs, uh logistics costs, officer uniforms, all those different things account for another $40 million. The total projected cost we believe in the first year of operations
uh for all three uh participating counties uh if it comes to three counties would be around $238 million and that includes everything operations, debt service. When you look at a projected uh average daily population of 1896 detainees, that
comes up to a total cost per person per day of around $344.51. You can see that over time uh this does increase uh slightly. You know, obviously escalation is going to impact some of the cost items. Uh that's true uh in most lines that that is going to
be true here. Um but you also see that that if you look down at the bottom the total cost per day per detainee is projected to grow very slowly. The reason behind that is that a big chunk of the cost in the debt service remain fixed. Uh it is only about 55% of the
cost of a 72 escalation. So as an aggregate you see about one and a half to 2% uh cost growth year-over-year. Next slide please. >> Excuse me before we move on. >> Yes sir. Uh, can you show is there a comparison of what we're paying now
versus what a be we >> not really sure Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. We we we certainly can uh look at that. There has been uh has been some look at the cost data. Um we have
some questions about the uh completeness of that data, but certainly we're happy to attempt to uh to compare. >> Well, I think if you were talking about us participating that you would show us the comparison, the cost savings of of what that would be. Well, I will say that that really that the comparison is
between doing an individual facility uh on your own as opposed to a uh uh a new facility collaborative certainly anytime you talk about a new facility total cost is going to go up. So I don't want to say that there would be cost savings as you know compared to what you are
spending now. The cost savings comes between the comparison of a new individual county facility as opposed to a new regional facility. Did that answer your question, sir? Kind, >> you know, I think the format we're using, we you talk about a deeper dive,
there too many questions that we would have instead of we should have had a premeating for us to go through get more questions asked because this is not the format to do that. So, I I'm listening. It's very interesting, but it's it's frustrating because you generate more
questions than you can answer today. >> Understood. Yeah. Understood. Um certainly as the projections uh progress as a project progresses uh a lot of these projections and assumptions will be turned into facts and so we will be able to further refine the cost
projections. Again the actual facility capacity uh once that is further uh uh refined uh facility size. Right now we're in the programmatic stage. Once we get to actual drawings we'll be able to nail down the facility size better. Uh but again regardless of of where the
final numbers come out we still believe that the concept of economies of scale um that the larger regional facility will be more costefficient than a comparably designed built operated and maintained individual county facility. >> I also add that some cases where you try
and do it per inmate per day whatever the cost is you're not capturing all the expenses the county is expending. for example, you have public works working here. You have other agencies or so that's where the the numbers are skewed a little bit. So this may look more
expensive per inmate, but if you capture all those other uh services are being provided to your jail, then you'll see that number will escalate slightly. Next slide, please. we can make this statement. Uh looks
like we did have a formatting issue. Um you know what does this result for Atlantic County projected in the first year of operation? We showed that um at a cost $344 per inmate that results in about $86 million uh for Atlantic County
in the first year of operations. We do believe that compared to a comparably built uh operated county facility, we believe that our cost will be 10 to 15% less uh than to build uh a comparable facility uh specific to Atlantic County.
We have done that comparison on on a 800 bed facility for example. Again, these yearly cost as measured in terms of permate per day costs, they are expected to be relatively stable. Looking at yearly increases from around
1 and a quarter uh to 2%. Next slide, please. Um we mentioned this earlier, you know, where are the economies of scale seen in a detention facility? Uh already went through this list. I won't go through that again, but I did want to show this.
Next slide, please. When you look at at the total budget that we have projected, you know, around 87% of the total budget is going to be positively impacted. It'll be helped uh by uh combining efforts and taking advantage of those economies of scale with a larger facility. Greater
purchasing power for supplies uh inmate programs, inmate services uh will be uh subject to taking advantage of the economies of scale we we mentioned earlier. Next slide, please. Um there are project benefits uh beyond
simply economical scale and a lot of these Ross already mentioned I won't spend uh a lot of time on this but again regional collaboration for staffing certainly staffing is a challenge um that is true of most uh justice organizations across the country. I don't think it's any different here. um
the opportunity for the three counties to work together uh uh to pull resources to make sure that there's adequate staffing for the new facility. >> And this uh this rendering down at the bottom of the page we developed that would be a typical housing unit and you can see with daylighting
uh staffing control is very efficient. Obviously, it varies per shift and the amount, you know, the late shift when everybody's sleeping is different, but you can see it's a safe, well-lit environment. It's healthy and uh contributes to the operation of the sworn staff. And this would be typical
for the housing units. Obviously, there's special places this facility for people who, let's say, don't behave correctly. So, >> can I ask another question, please? What's the projected cost of our participation?
Uh if you could go back one slide please. >> Uh back one more please. >> Yeah. Uh the the projected 2031 cost uh would be around $86 million.
>> What's our cost now for the year? you know take the cost for you. >> Yeah. Right now in today's state 40 42 million >> that's without that's without the indirect cost that that's where where
we've had our discussions about cost your indirect costs in a new facility become direct cost. So things that we do now for example the jail doesn't have its own purchasing agents. If you if you go to a new jail, you need a purchasing
agent. And so what you know, how how does our purchasing agent get assigned to the jail? Those are the kinds of things. They don't have their own treasurer. So they got to have, you know, somebody's assigned from the treasur's office to handle those accounts. So th those are the issues that we've been going back and forth
about those those costs. >> Indirect costs. >> We can't use our present costs right now in an antiquated facility, >> right? If we decide we want to build in Maze Landing, we have to keep in mind that we have to demolish the old
facility. What do we do with the inmates that are there while we're demolishing it? And also what we're paying right now, the debt service is not in there and all the amenities. So if we we have to make it the apples and apples the fact that we
may be paying it used to be 89 90 I figure it's 120 a day at the facility right now but it'll be far more than that when we build a new facility in land if we do that we're still going to have a debt service and all the other
costs that are along here. So that quality is uh you know is going to be wishful and >> that's what we tried to state is those those departments and agencies that support the jail aren't really captured in that 40 million
outside of that. >> I got a quick question guys. What uh and Jerry probably can answer this or or Mike. What's the inmate population Atlantic County only? Not the ones we're taking in. What do we uh what's our inmate population generally? >> I let I let him answer because it changes every day. within I know that
that's why I'm just Is it 400 a day in Land County cuz I know we >> was that the count? >> Yeah, Mike. >> 750 771 today. We took out the the contract inmates. >> 35. It' be like 740.
>> So it's only you only taken a few out of out of county inmates. I was told 35 >> maybe 50 inmates between Burlington, a few from Cumberland, a few from Gloucester. The Burlington females, we house them all about 36 to 40 on any
given day depending, >> you know. >> Our our incarceration rate at our facility right now is upward close to 70% as opposed to other counties where they're at around 30 or 40%. So your question may be why is that? for paying
$120 a day. Why are we paying so much more? And I'm not in disagreement with this prosecutor. These people are not out on the streets. They're locked up. There's bail reform now. And that he may define bail reform a little different
than other counties defied it. So, our bad guys are incarcerated at a uh I think double the rate of other places. Now he may see that is is that fair guy
sitting in jails for 6 8 months. He may you know he may admit to anything to get the hell out of there. So it's a two-sided coin that this prosecutor has been uh uh in my opinion extremely efficient >> on keeping bad guys behind bars rather
than keep locking them up and relocking them up. But that's why our costs are where they are and why our numbers are where they are so much more than the other counties. And I believe we're the only county that are approaching 70% incarceration. >> That answer your question, sir?
>> Yes. >> I I just want to reiterate one thing and that is a new facility be it a county facility or a region facility obviously is going to cost a lot of money and as a result you know overall cost will go up.
But again, our belief is that costs will go up less through a regional facility than through a comparably built individual county facility. Um, to incorporate all the services, all the features, things that that Khloe and Dr. Timmy talked about, uh, in order to
build a a current facility uh that meets today's needs and uh, accounts for future flexibility, uh, we believe the most costefficient manner of doing that is through a regional facility. >> I see. Yes. Yes. I'm sorry. I should have asked this earlier. What's the inmate
population coming out of Camden? What are you guys housing per your jail per day? >> About 850 right now. >> 850. Is that pretty stays pretty standard? 850. Or is it dips up and down like a lot of them do? It >> It's pretty It's pretty stable right now. When when I started working as
administrator 21 years ago, we had 2,200 >> inmates and we worked with a consultant out of Florida. We did not let anyone out of jail. We simply worked with the courts and the prosecutor to make the system go faster.
And and this is yes, bail reform helped us about 50%. But what we did making the system faster also helped us. And so we went from 2,200 down to about 850 right now. >> Turn the cases over quicker. So you're
turning the cases over quicker. Exactly. >> That's what Sharon Bean does for us working with the courts. And you know, we had to convince them. I felt like I was at the okay corral at high noon and I was the only guy without bullets. We
had to persuade them of the wisdom of doing this. We did and it paid off. >> The population is a very interesting question. Um, >> and by the way, excuse me, one thing. >> What's crime in Camden? >> 200 >> is at a 50year low.
>> Uh, what's Cumberland? Like 200. What's >> No, they're more than Holly. How much? >> No, they're closer to 430 something like that. >> 430 cap. We pay per capita. We pay per capita what we have.
>> So if you want if you have a lenient prosecutor, which we don't have, you'll be paying far less. It's a two-sided coin. >> Yeah. >> And the complaints I get from uh many defense attorneys uh about the prosecutor, all I can say is that I agree with what he's doing, although I
have no we have no power over the prosecutor except paying them. But that's why our incarceration rate is where it is. Uh and look, as far as the bail reform is concerned, you're you're out on the summons and then the next thing you know, it's a
warrant. So uh this way we know that they're contained. >> The the average daily population that we projected for year one of operations which is 2031 was 1896. That that is the total of the three counties. Um but
built into our budget uh we actually are projecting building between 22 and 2300 beds. >> Um when you look at at populations uh you have to account for a peaking factor. Uh certainly that population of 1896 is an average but it's certainly not static over the first year. You will
have fluctuations. >> One of the nice things about that is when you do have that peaking factor that that uh little bit of excess uh gives the law enforcement operators uh those professionals the ability to properly manage uh the inmate population which is one thing that that most
jurisdictions site as a challenge uh simply the inability to properly manage and classify their detainees due to a lack of space. Um we took a 2041 population uh projection and that's that was the basis uh of uh this cost
estimates because giving at least the first 10 years of operation enough population flexibility to properly manage population. If we had this conversation 27 years ago when I became county executive, we would have about
1,200 1,250 inmates in the same facility and it was very very difficult to maintain. We were triple bunking. We were the federal government, the state government was coming in the department of prisons. We had a hard time.
>> Another quick question. Um the legislation we talked about the rehabilitation act that the state allowed us to to get together with a regional facility. Um there's going to be at least if Atlantic County participates you have two wardens right now three could be four could be five.
Um who runs the operation all the wardens kept on board managing uh their operation answering their own particular questions for their how's that working? Well, first off, the representation on the board that runs the facility will be
equally made up. If if you were to come in, it would be Atlantic, Cumberland, and Camden. Equal representation. >> Are they the wardens doing it or is it an appointed person? >> I would think that the wardens should be on that board. >> That's why I'm asking or it's an appointed person coming from each, you know, county administrator or something, but no. Okay, it's the wardens. We got a
professional. >> By the way, wardens are mentioned in the New Jersey Constitution. So, they're not going anywhere. We need the wardens. But it to answer your question, it would be run centrally by this entity that's created under the
law, right? >> Camden County, Cumberland County, and Atlantic County would be effectively out of the jail business. And then anything that happens for the cost that operate those facilities, any future changes, any modifications or additions to the
facilities, any programs are going to be added for the inmates, anything like that, those costs will be broken down per county per each county has its own amount of inmates per head and that cost gets put into the county budget. Like you get a library tax. >> No, it does not go into the county
budget. It's taxed directly. >> It it's part of your property tax bill. >> All right. So, um, >> but your but your Aha, hold on. But your levy correspondingly drops. >> I understand it comes out of one pocket and it's in another one.
>> It does. And the argument here is that putting it together is more. >> So, that'll be right on the homeowner's property tax bill. He'll get a a number for in incarceration or whatever, rehabilitation. >> I'd like to call a bowl of cherries, but yeah, you're right. >> All right. Oh, great. In other words,
you know what your library tax know your open space >> that's in the property tax bill. It's automatic. There's no discussion for you don't have any you're not coming to commissioner board. It's all pulled out. >> That's what I was going to ask Mr. Chair if I could. I I have several questions but um just given time we don't have to
necessarily answer them all here. I do agree with my colleague this does need to go to committee for for further due diligence. Um >> 100%. But cost does do the cost consider uh having a PLA in place or prevailing wage as as
part of the uh construction costs >> should be our elected >> okay thank you are elected officials on the advisory board to me can't have taxation without representation so >> you appoint the advisory board so >> so it hasn't been defined
>> no >> okay so I would say that should happen um how are We solving the problem of attracting minim minimum needed staff that we can't solve today. >> Well, again, that's >> Don't say a better work environment.
>> Look, I can only tell you that if we get it if we do this together, we go a long way in solving the staffing problem. I don't know how short you are now. We're about 90 to 100 short. If we work together uh again economies of
scale, it's economics 101. We will be able to do this more efficiently together. >> To me, the only way to do that is to increase the salary, but okay. >> Well, you might be right about that. You probably are right about that. >> Are all current staff so for in our
case, all of our current corrections officers, any staff at the jail today automatically hired by the new entity? I I I I'm not exactly sure how that will work, but yes, we listen, we are short corrections officers. So, there's no
correction officer is going to get laid off because you join this this collaborative. >> Again, devil in the details, right? Like the people component of this is so important. So, I would just encourage the jail committee to to
stipulate that in the governing rules. That is an assumption that we've been working under. >> Okay. And then I I I also agree we need a baseline comparison on our current state today costs direct indirect all that >> those numbers
>> um estimated state if we were to do it alone and then we have the estimated state if it was regionalized. We we have to have that >> that viewpoint um not only for us to make a decision but for for the public's uh benefit. Um so those are just some
questions that I have. Thank you. >> Let me just as the county executive that would be a deal breaker as far as I'm concerned. I'm not going to let go people that have been loyal come to work every day under serious questionable conditions and let them go.
If we can consolidate, they have to be worked into uh the new jail program if that's the way we go. We built our own. We're going to >> So unless that's taken into consideration. as long as they can be licensed.
>> Oh yeah, >> we're not going to be laying off anybody as long as they can continue to license. >> We're not recruiting off the street now. So, I mean, they're they're qualified. Now, >> they have to be quite >> Are you guys all civil service, too? And and um Cumberland is as well.
>> Yes. >> I'm just asking for bumping and all that jazz, you know. >> Oh, no. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um I I'm willing to let other commissioners ask questions at this point, but I think there only a couple slides left. >> Yeah, we're we're close to the end. We
can uh go through and then uh I'll wrap this up. Uh next slide, please. Touch that one again. Where do we see the economy scale? I've been through this list and then the next slide shows that uh we believe that around 87% maybe more
uh of the budget uh would stand to benefit that those line items uh do benefit from the economies of scale we discussed earlier. Next slide. Um again some of the the project benefits uh we mentioned regional collaboration for staffing. Since day
one our operating assumption has been uh that every employee of one of the uh jails in Camden, Cumberland or Atlantic would have the opportunity uh to continue their career uh at the new S&J RRC uh but as an employee of the authority and not necessarily as a
county employee. But again, this plan has been endorsed by various uh law enforcement unions that that Ross mentioned earlier. Next slide, please. Um, in addition to the uh monetary benefits, we also believe uh that this
is the fastest way to a new facility. Um, certainly these are complicated projects, we've uh put a lot of work into this already, a couple years down the road. Uh, based on conversations uh with Ross, we believe probably have at least a two-year head start. Uh,
certainly if other counties try to do an individual facility. Next slide, please. Uh, reducing liability. Ross touched on this again. One of the benefits that Ross' and and others at Camden and Cumberland have expressed to us is
simply the ability uh to get out of the jail business with that. Next slide, please. Um, you know, if we had to summarize the benefits that we see through this project, you know, replaces existing jails with a a facility that is
designed, built, and operated to current standards and also gives you the projected uh capabilities for future uh needs, the future operating environment. Again, the fastest path to building and occupying and operating a new facility. We believe uh it is the most costefficient. I'm certainly staffing,
collaboration, efficiencies. uh the three counties working together we believe will have a greater chance of properly staffing this facility than individual county facilities. Uh Ross mentioned earlier the creation of economic opportunities at the location of the existing facilities and also
shifting liability uh from counties to the regional authority. Um certainly we're happy to continue taking questions. Uh but that is the the end of the prepared slides. Well, first of all, I mean, I I asked for this presentation well in advance,
and I'm, you know, a little disappointed, I guess, as Commissioner Davs was that it was a more pertinent specific to Atlanta County. Um, I do want to say that this definitely has to be hashed out in the jail committee. And I want to encourage anybody from the public that may not get a chance to speak today. Um, email, reach out to
your commissioners, any other commissioners who do not serve on the jail committee, any questions that have not been answered that comes up later once you take a look at this or the questions that were generated by other questions that you may hear public the public asking. Um, it definitely has to go to the jail committee. I I'm curious.
So, what year was the the legislation that created this this entity passed? You said it was Senate Bill 4134, but it that changes every year. 22 23 >> 22 23. So none of this information that Commissioner Gat asked about is is
specified in that bill as far as who who's going to constitute the board? What I know as you said equal representation, but who's going to be spending the taxpayers money? You know, you mentioned you have to have a treasurer. Assume there's going to have to be an attorney negotiating the union contracts of the employees. All of that
is being developed in the creation of the authority board, but the legislation did not specify how the board would be. >> So, but so who's currently developing those ideas, those thoughts? >> We have a committee. >> Camden County has a committee.
>> Okay. I mentioned that we received about 30 a little over $30 million we've been able to get from the state >> and um we've been spending that money preparing the things that you're talking
about >> and if you were in on the project you would of course be right there with us developing this >> 30 million for >> what did we get >> why did they give you the 30 million >> um for the purpose of developing a
shared service regional facility for jails in South Jersey. That is what we said to them. >> So, is Cumberland County also involved in process currently? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. Yeah. Commissioner, >> I noticed that the 10.75 million was in
last year's budget to Camden County, I think, for you guys, and it said for rehabilitate, reju. So, that was your third phase. >> How did you go? Does Cumberland get state aid or would Atlantic County get state aid too uh to help defer some of the startup costs that are going to be
pretty obvious? >> Well, first off, we are going to pay that 30 million isn't just for Camden County. It's for any >> developing the whole thing. >> Correct. And then my plan at least is going forward. I'd like to and this is where Atlantic County can help. If if
you were to be in our project that I believe would make us a pretty formidable entity visa v the state in requesting support annual support for the taxpayers of each
county. So you're so the money you got was through your legislative team that got the state to put it in the budget. Bobby L whatever should say his name out loud >> collaboratively. >> Okay.
>> Maybe we can get money >> which is what he said. I think >> we get our waterfront done. >> Are there any other additional commissioner comments at this time? Again, it's it's going to go to the jail committee. I I'm sure we all have multiple questions at this point. These are very specific to Atlantic.
>> There are many many questions that I still have and I'll reserve those for the jail committee. There's one. Is there an exit? Is there an exit clause? >> If we get into this partnership, >> things are not what we think it should be. How do we get out?
>> I would have to defer to >> you. Once you're in, you're in. You have to make a decision about whether you're in or whether you're not. I understand I understand your request for specific dollars. Ed Ed touched on it.
He he spoke in terms of percent of savage. I think he said it would be 15 to some some other percent less than if you tried to build an equal facility. By the numbers that we looked at and projected for Atlantic County, we
believe the savings would be between 14 and $34 million visa B compared to what you would pay on your own if you did it on your own. >> 14 to 34 million a year.
>> Well, you do have an answer to that question. >> Yes, I'd like to think I just answered it. But when the faster >> I don't think that was >> No, we and that's what I wanted that's why I wanted to say hard numbers to you
because we we mentioned a percentage of savings but if you you want dollars our current estimate and these folks this is not their first rodeo. >> Yes. They're telling us between 14 and $34 million each year if you were to do
it collaboratively versus you know what we're going to build a new Atlantic County jail. So if we know that and then then we can just compare that with building a new counter
and again those are the projections now that but if you're doing it with economies of scale if the prices happen to go up they're going to go up whether or not you build on your own or you build with us. >> Well I think we all understand economies
of scale but I mean we we wanted more specific to Atlantic County. I mean, we we try to operate on that all the time and consortiums and >> 34 million >> and I, you know, and again, just off the top without it being hashed out further in committee, I'm just concerned about who's going to actually which who is going to be sending our county taxpayers
a property tax bill. That's >> Oh, no. I realize that, but I'm speaking specifically from whom will that be coming? Specific names, you know, representation, things like that. But >> the entity, by the way, has not yet been stood up. >> Right. >> Right. So I would tell you that this
meeting and maybe other meetings that we will have with you if you have further questions which I'm sure you will but we're nearing the end of what I call the aggregation phase. I have spoke we've spoken our team has spoken to almost with the
exception possibly of Kate May every county in South Jersey from Ocean and Mercer south to Cape May everybody had an opportunity to do this. I was >> it's a daunting project. I get why you might not want to do it, but I think you
really ought to think about reality and and the fact of we all are in this together. >> We will spend less money than we would spend each alone. >> And that was my question. Did you who else did you speak with? So you did talk to all the and what was their concerns?
Why didn't they consider that? So they're hearing the same argument we're hearing. Do they have facilities? They're not that old. Do they have >> believe me just about I have to tell you I think Sanding County's jail might be in the best shape >> and I'm not going to tell you that it's in good shape.
>> I got told 15 16 years ago that we needed to spend $17 million on windows >> and that's 17 figure out what that might be now. I mean it's ridiculous. So after we decide one way or the other,
if we decide to go in with the uh with Camden and Cumberland, then we have have a collaborative meeting with the three. Correct. >> Yes. >> My final question, what's the time frame? >> We we expect that we will be opening
>> Excuse me. >> Oh, the time frame for you to make a decision. I'm going to tell you, I'd like you to make it fairly quickly because we want to move from aggregation to planning and construction and design. >> And as far as administration is
concerned, we have to do maintenance in there. We're looking at millions of dollars replacing the locks. I know it sounds like a lot, but uh and also the windows. What are we looking at, Jerry? >> Locks are going to be a million dollars. Windows will remain probably between two
and three. So we don't want to be doing these things and knocking it down or so we might make this uh kind of puts >> all are there any other additional commissioner comments because we would like to open up to the public but I do want to remind them that you know try
not to be repetitive first of all we are going to go to the jail committee so if you have questions that you that come up later please reach out to your commissioners so they can ask them in the jail committee when they're looking at more of the details. close to this, but I do think I know a good portion of
the public is here to to listen to this and maybe have some questions. Um, so I do want to remind anyone from the public when you come up, you have three minutes to speak. When you get to the podium, please state your name and the town in which you reside. Is there anybody from the public would like to speak at this time?
Uh, thank you. My name is Steve Forjon. I'm mayor elect for Htown Hamilton. I served 13 years on town council. And I would start this conversation by saying that when any entity comes into a room with this many people, you got to question it. Something just doesn't add
up, right? It just doesn't seem logical to me to bring this army here to go over this issue without really It just seems odd to me. Secondly, it is not 13 milesi. I need to correct uh Mr. Levenson. It's approximately 5 miles
from our western border. It's our zip code. So Hamilton is the most directly affected to this. What I would ask at this time, at least at this time, would be to have the county exec administration, the jail committee when you form it, unless you've already formed it committed and the
commissioners do a full presentation to our residents in Hamilton, not here, but in Hamilton since we are the town that's most directly affected by all this. >> That would be my initial request. I take office in January. You guys come on in. Let's bring a whole show in and have a conversation.
>> Mayor, in all due respect, your town is affected by this 5 miles away. >> But so is May's Landing. And if you want to talk about direct effect, it's there now. Correct. In their front yard. This is in your backyard. >> Understood. >> And >> but it already exists. You have the
infrastructure facilities to handle it. >> Mayor, I understand. So, this is going to have to be and by the way, our newest freeholder is the mayor of Hamilton Township. So, it'll be a lively uh discussion.
>> By the way, congratulations. >> Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Well, again, I would encourage everyone to please bring this bring this meeting to uh to Hamilton and have that conversation with our residents. Our residents are deeply concerned. And what I I'll leave you with is this that our town has done a great job. Economic
development. We bring people to our town. eat at our restaurant, shop at our stores, and then go to play in your golf courses and go down the shore. What I don't want, and I may not be able to stop this from Camden and Cumberland coming to our zip code, but is to move prisoners back and forth, back and forth through our town when we're trying to
bring people in. I think it's a bad look. We have Tuo turf that brings thousands thousands of people in every month for soccer tournaments. I to me for Hamilton, it's a bad look. I would obviously request that Atlanta County doesn't participate in it, but at the
very least bring everyone to us and have our residents ask questions. I think that's a fair I think that's a fair question, a fair uh demand at this time. >> This is going to be on on our website as well, available to the public. >> I think this meeting should be held in
Hamilton >> informationational I think you still have anformational meeting out there to explain it in the council. Mayor, if I'm not you're talking about coming to a council meeting and explaining it or you want a separate meeting set up. >> No, we could you could do it at the council meeting. We'll give you plenty of time. >> Okay. >> So that our residents can come and ask
questions. Not online, but come in person. Ask questions. Our residents have questions and concerns. >> Ask questions. >> With all with all due respect to everyone, you guys want to come in our backyard. It's not an unreasonable request to have your meeting at our location. So just discuss this issue right now. Also, again, I'm not going to
go back and forth with you on this. Not not at all. It's not my intention. This is not an Atlantic County project at the moment. This we had zero input on this. This is the first time we actually saw this presentation. Understood. I guess my question is if you take the next step, could you come to us and have
that conversation with our res I hope before we take the next step, we'll have a lot more answers to provide it to everyone in LA County. So >> definitely. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, mayor. And again, congratulations or mayor elect. Is there anyone else from the public at this time
on the on this particular topic because we'll be for public comment at each agenda item and at the end. Is there anybody online? All right. So, no. Okay. Thank you. So, hearing no other public comment, I would like to then move on with the Oh, there
is one. Sorry. Okay. Miss Cabair, you have to unmute yourself on your end. So there will be I mean there will be other opportunity at the end of the meeting for public comment as well. >> It's a gap. I'd like to hear
>> we're trying Well, um, Mr. Chair, just one other question for the jail committee. Um, I I just would be interested to know if um, >> the existing jail demolition costs are included in the total cost, >> the 14 to 34 million.
>> Well, the total I unmuted me. Okay, here we are. >> Okay. I live in Winslow Township and I live three miles from the Hamilton border. I have a lot of concerns, but my biggest one that I'm taking away from this, and
I agree with the mayor of this many people, it it something's not right. Please explain how my property tax is going to be affected by this prison. Somebody, can you answer that one? from the presentation. I mean, they did
say it's going to be a separate entity, but how you mean the impact on your property taxes? >> Yeah. Anytime you build anytime you build a new jail, whether you do it collaboratively or you do it individually, it's going to cost money. We're trying to do it for the cheapest
price. That's why we're doing it collaboratively. That will cost each taxpayer less than it would if you did it yourself. on your own, >> but is this a separate entity that is going to be showing up on my property
tax? >> Right. Want to know? >> Yes. >> And will we be able to vote on any tax increases or we're just going to have to accept what is presented to us? >> Well, right now your property taxes
for the county >> school board. We vote on fire commission. We vote on Will we have a chance to vote on this prison baloney? >> No, I don't think so. >> No, it's just in your tax. That's what it cost. >> It's part of your tax bill.
>> Cost to do it. >> You need a jail. >> I know. But explain it to her. It's a cost for doing ser having that service. Whatever the costs are going to be from the uh the entity that runs the the regional facility, they're going to pass it on to the tax bill all over Atlantic
County. So, everybody will see it on the tax bill. The Atlantic County Commissioners will appoint an equal number as will the Camden County Commissioners as will the Cumberland County Commissioners to the board that will make that decision. >> Collaborative will employees be
employees of the state or the county or this commission and their status? >> They will be employee the people who run the regional facility will be employees of the regional entity that runs that facility. Right now, the people who run
your jail, you live in Winslow. The people who run run your jail are Camden County employees. But I'm concerned because I was a state employee, how this is going to affect people's pensions,
their their seniority, and that kind of thing. >> No one is going to have their pension affected. I would tell you, and the finance people would agree with me, our corrections officers, I'm concerned about Camden County corrections
officers. You're concerned about Atlantic County corrections officers. They will make more money working with us when this place opens in 5 years. >> Will they be employees of the state of New Jersey? >> They will be employees of the Southern
New Jersey Regional Rehabilitation and Re-entry Authority. That's what they will be employees of. >> Is this a private prison? >> No. >> No, it's public a public entity. >> Then the employees will be public
employees. >> That is correct. >> Yes. >> Listen, when we try, you might not have heard the beginning of the presentation, but we we've been thinking about this for I think it's 15 years now. And when we started to think about it, we thought, okay, we'll issue bonds. you
would pay the debt service on those bonds as a Camden County taxpayer. What we're trying to do is to ameliate the effect to make it less than it would otherwise be by doing it together.
>> And what happens to the patients in poor >> if you're living in Camden County now, you're going to pay for this whether we're in or not. >> That's correct. >> You're going to have Cumberland and Camden in Winslow Township where you live. >> You are correct. We may not go in. The commissioners may decide with the
demolition of the old jail, the building of a new jail, how much it's going to be compared to going into uh into this facility. So, they got their their work to do. But, uh, Miss Cap Ferry, you will be paying regardless because you live in Winslow, you live in Camden County,
>> right? >> You asked about the >> question is what happens to the patients at Anora? What happens mental health facility that exists there? Yeah, let me let me answer that question for you. >> And I hate the fact that you're conflating mental illness with with the
with criminals. >> Well, the patients at Anora Hospital will remain at Anora Hospital. That answers your question there. >> That is a state-run facility. Miss Caperry, thank you for your for
your questions. A lot of these questions >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you very much. >> I'll mute me again. >> At this time, I believe we'll um I would like to move on to the rest of our agenda for the day. So, anybody who's here for the jail, you're free to free to leave.
in my house. Good to >> see you tonight. Great advice. >> All right. So, let's move on to ordinance ordinance five. >> Ordinance amending the code of the county of Atlantic pertaining to land
development standards part two general legislation chapter 86-201 and article 11 section 4-64.10 10 subp part M3A regarding the composition of the development review committee of the county of Atlantic. Final reading.
>> That second. >> Move and seconded. Are there any commissioner comments? >> Since this is final reading, are there any comments from the public? Please call the role. >> Ratino, >> yes. >> Burns, yes. >> Daz, >> yes. >> Gat, >> yes.
>> Kern, yes. >> Parker, >> yes. >> Grizzley, >> yes. >> Ruffio, yes. Daz, >> yes. Ordinance 7. >> Ordinance amending county code chapter 97 entitled parks concerning John F. Gaffne Green Tree Golf Course. First reading.
>> Second. >> Moved and second. Are there any commissioner comments? Hear none. Since this is first reading, there'll be no public comment at this time. Please call the role. >> Yes. >> Burns. Yes. >> Faze. >> Yes. >> Gat, yes. >> Kern, yes. >> Parker, >> yes. >> Grizzly, >> yes. >> Ruff, yes. >> Size,
>> yes. If any commissioners would like to discuss or remove any grants from the consent agenda, please indicate so now there are any comments from the public on the grants. I'll entertain a motion to combine and adopt resolutions 645 through 646.
>> Move. >> Second. >> Seconded. Please call the role. >> Martino, >> yes. >> Burns, yes. >> Disease, >> yes. >> Gat, yes. >> Karna, >> yes. >> Parker, >> yes. >> Grizzly, >> yes. >> Ruffio, >> yes. >> D, >> yes. Resolution 647 >> amending resolution number 533 adopt on
October 7th, 2025. A grant from the New Jersey Department of Law and Public Safety for the Sexual Assault Response Team Forensic Nurse Examiner Program to increase the county incind match net increase $2,352. >> Second move and seconded. Any commissioner comments? Any comments from
the public? Please call the RO. >> Martino, yes. >> Burns, yes. >> Stays. >> Gat, yes. >> Kern, yes. >> Parker, >> yes. Rizley, >> yes. >> Ruffio, >> yes. >> D, >> yes. Resolution 648, >> professional services agreement with various vendors for library goods and
services amount not to exceed $690,000. >> Move. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Any commissioner comments? >> Any comments from the public? >> May, please call the role. >> Bertino, yes. >> Burns, yes. >> Daz, >> yes. >> Gat, yes. >> Kern, yes. >> Parker, yes. >> Rley, >> yes. >> Rafio, >> yes.
>> D, >> yes. If any commissioners would like to discuss or remove any competitive contracts from the consent agenda, please indicate now. Are there any comments from the public? >> Right. I'll entertain a motion to combine and adopt resolutions 649 through 651.
>> Moved. Second. >> Moved and seconded. Please call the role. >> Martino, yes. >> Burns, yes. Daz, >> yes. >> Gat, >> yes. >> Kern, yes. >> Parker, >> yes. >> Grizzly, >> yes. >> Ruffio, >> yes. >> D, >> yes. >> Resolution 652. bid contract with the
New Jersey Fire Equipment Company to provide a fire training rooftop unit amount not to exceed $78,500. >> Second move and seconded. Any commissioner comments? >> Any comments from the public? Please call the role. >> Ratino, yes. >> Burns, yes. >> Faze,
>> yes. >> Gat, yes. >> Kern, yes. >> Parker, yes. >> Grizzly, >> yes. >> Ruffio, >> yes. >> Daz, >> yes. If any commissioners would like to discuss or remove any change orders from the consent agenda, please indicate so now. Hearing none. Any comments from the
public? Right. I'll entertain a motion to combine and adopt the resolutions 653 through 654. Move. >> Second. >> Move. Then seconded. Please call the role. >> Ratino? >> Yes. >> Burns? >> Yes. >> Days? >> Yes. >> Gat? >> Yes. >> Kern? >> Yes. >> Parker? >> Yes. >> Grizzly? >> Yes.
>> Ruffio? >> Yes. >> Daz? >> Yes. If any commissioners would like to discuss or remove any miscellaneous items from the consent agenda, please indicate so now. >> Hearing none. Are there any comments from the public? I'll entertain a motion to combine and
adopt resolutions 655 through 657. Move. >> Second. Move and seconded. Please call the role. >> Martino, >> yes. >> Burns, yes. >> Stays, >> yes. >> Gat, >> yes. >> Kerna, >> yes. >> Parker, >> yes. >> Grizzly, >> yes. >> Ruffio, >> yes. >> Daz, >> yes. I want to entertain a motion to
combine and adopt resolutions 658 through 651 and resolution 663, chapter 159's. >> Move. >> Second. Moved and seconded. Are there any commissioner comments? Any comments from the public? Please call the role. >> Bertino, >> yes.
>> Burns, yes. Stays, >> yes. >> Gate, >> yes. >> Kerna, >> yes. >> Parker, >> yes. >> Rley, >> yes. >> Ruff, >> yes. >> Days, >> yes. Resolution 662. >> Well-being and Equity Innovations Community Based Violence Interruption Program 2025, $115,000.
>> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Any commissioner comments? Any comments from the public? Please call the role. Rotino, >> yes. >> Burns, yes. Stays, >> gate, >> yes. >> Kern, yes. >> Parker, >> yes. >> Grizzly, >> yes. >> Ruff, >> yes. >> Stays, >> yes.
>> We'll entertain a motion to combine and adopt resolutions 664 through 669 appointments. >> Second. >> Movement seconded. Any commissioner comments? >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes. Commissioner G. >> With regard to 668, um, the appointment of Tara Silapina as our clerk.
>> Yes. Um, while this is slightly questionable, no, uh, I just I just want to say, um, and I think I speak for us all, but you know, Tara, you do such a great job and, um, you picked up the reigns from Sonia >> and really have made the position your
own and um, really keep us online along with the rest of your staff. And, uh, like I said, we're we're just so lucky to have you. You do a fantastic job and I'm just so grateful that you're going to continue on. So, keep these guys all in line when I'm >> here.
>> I thought you were putting it in committee. >> No, I'll 100% echo everything Commissioner Gat said. Uh, >> Amen. >> Ter and staff have done a tremendous job um helping me as as chair here.
>> No, no idea. Anyway, are there any other commissioner comments? >> Any comments from the public? >> All right, please call the role. >> Bertino, >> yes. >> Burns, yes. days. >> Yes. Twice. >> Gat, >> yes. >> Karna, >> yes. >> Parker, >> yes. >> Grizzly, >> yes.
>> Ruff, >> yes. >> Days, >> yes. Resolution 670. >> Resolution setting the date, time, and place of the annual reorganization meeting of the Atlanta County Board of County Commissioners. >> Moved and seconded. Any commissioner comments?
>> Any comments from the public? >> Please call the role. >> Ratino, >> yes. >> Burns, yes. >> Daz, >> yes. Gat, >> yes. >> Kerna, >> yes. >> Parker, >> yes. >> Grizzly, >> yes. >> Ruffio, >> yes. >> D, >> yes. Resolution 671. >> Resolution supporting the National Dam
Safety Program Amendment Bill. Sponsor Amy Elgato. >> Move. >> Move. Then seconded. Commissioner Gat, do you have any comments? >> Um, yeah. So, this is the followup to um the wonderful day we had at the opening of the Lake Lenny Dam. Uh uh I think you
can remember we had a a Congressman Andrew had a a speaker there and he spoke himself on um legislation that he was pushing in terms of um continuing funding and attention on um the prioritization of dam safety um and the
payment of dam safety and and we know we benefited um by several million dollars uh to have that dam um replaced and I think um it's something that all of our infrastructure needs that kind of attention. Um, and I I made a commitment to him that we would support uh his
legislation uh following that that ceremony. So, this is where we're at. >> Any other commissioner comments? >> Yeah, I would just like to uh thank Commissioner Gatau for all her hard work uh with the dam. You stayed entirely
committed to this throughout from the beginning through uh making sure that it move forward. So, thank you very much for your commitment. >> Thanks. Any other commissioner comments? Any comments from the public? All right, please call the role. >> Bertino, >> yes. >> Burns, >> yes. Days,
>> yes. >> Gat, >> yes. >> Kern, >> yes. >> Parker, >> yes. >> Grizzley, >> yes. >> Ruffio, >> yes. >> D, >> yes. Commissioners, we've received copies of written communications and petitions. Are there any commissioner comments that Anthony may have received? >> Hearing none. Are there any reports of
special committees of the board? >> Um, Mr. Chair, >> Commissioner Gat. Um I uh couldn't attend our last meeting due to um work travel that I was on, but I didn't see in the minutes um Commissioner Parker that you gave an update on our AI subcommittee. >> Yes. >> Did you or did
>> I did? >> Oh, you did. Okay. I didn't see it. Sorry. Never mind. >> We also have a draft resolution that went out today for the committee to consider. >> Oh, I didn't see anything, but Okay. Okay. Sorry.
>> Any other reports of special committees? Any unfinished business? Hearing none. Any new business? >> Commissioner Rizley. >> I'd just like to comment on our meeting last night at the Canali Center. I
thought it was fantastic. Thought it was a good solid meeting. I heard a lot of great conversation. I was particularly happy to hear from uh the police chief in the town that I live in, Chief Spano,
and the remarks that he made about the necessity for this. I think there's a real opportunity here, and we're going to get some of the players together and I hope Mr. Porco will uh work with this
group to move centralized dispatch ahead. It's It's time. It's just time. You know, I've been here 24 years. Next year be 25. And uh I've heard about centralized dispatch over the decades
from a lot of folks, a lot of firemen, EMS people, how antiquated we are, and we shouldn't have to be making a half a dozen phone calls or more to get people and equipment to places where they need to be. you know, we're we're we're last
in that category and we need to be first and we need to be not the only count county that doesn't have a centralized dispatch. So, it's something that it's the right thing to do. It's not about saving money. It's about saving lives
and people. That's what it's about efficiency. That's why I feel so passionately about it. Uh it's just simply time. So, the meeting last night was great. It was positive and uh we're we're moving forward. So I thank
everybody that attended and their remarks. Thanks. >> Thank you, Commissioner. Is there any other new business? >> Chairman Commissioner. >> Uh there was a meeting and um Commissioner Burns I had put together a
meeting uh regarding uh ID for the homeless. Uh I know some information has gone around. It was uh came from a meeting that uh Absein has a task force. Unfortunately, I was able not able to attend that due to illness, but um
Commissioner Burns does have a meeting put together and there is another one coming up on June 12th and I think I'm sorry December. >> I wish I maybe I'm just hoping for just flying by. There is a there is a
number of people you know involved with that meeting and have some passion about it. But I do feel that um we should include the uh committee which you actually chair. >> Yeah. >> On the information. >> It's nice to get the information today
because there there is a homeless committee should be involved as well. >> Yeah. I appreciated the information. Looks like it was a good meeting. I wasn't aware of any of the questions that were raised. Commissioner Parker was the chair. >> That's okay. No worries. Um, so I uh I
guess for sake of quarm uh for that, you know, I'm happy to yield for you to continue to to attend and everything like that, but yeah, I think it I think it's great. I know it's a passion of yours to um Commissioner Kern. So um something we should continue to uh to consider. I know there's a lot of
questions um with the process as it used to be, right? and some some concerns there and so I think there's a lot of details to maneuver but certainly if we can address an issue that >> is an obsein concern
>> things clear I was invited by um mayor from absein to attend that meeting that couldn't attend because she was sick and at that meeting I was specifically asked why we weren't doing it any longer because apparently we used
to do that in the county and is there a possibility to do it now. So that's where I just said I can't answer that. I'll go back to administration and speaking to Jerry who just put together to include um the people that were at that meeting
and to move forward to get an answer. Um lot of concerns, liability. >> Yeah. >> Um accountability and but I can step back. It's your >> No, no, no. It's fine. It's probably better if you continue the ball.
It was um it was a good group that you put together. Um and I think there will be other you know information. >> Yeah. >> Glad those issues will continue to be discussed addressed. I know uh Mayor Mor was pretty fired up in one of the the mayor's association meetings. So
>> right >> glad anything you can do to calm them down. >> And again it's just to help the homeless population who are looking for housing, a job. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Or any type of benefits, >> right? You know, I went right to the
cause of the problem and not Yes. >> Right. Definitely not putting band-aids on it >> also in the meeting. >> Yeah. Definitely right at the root cause. Appreciate that. Is there any other new business? All right. We want a public comment. Anyone attending in person that would like to speak now at public comment,
please come to the podium speaking on the microphone. State your name and the town in which you reside. If you're attending virtually, like to make a public comment, please raise your hand. I'll call your name and request to unmute will be sent. Please state your name in the town in which you reside, you'll be provided up to three minutes to speak.
Good evening. My name is Melanie Griffin. I reside in Pleasantville, New Jersey. Um, I am the president of Local 2302. Good evening, chair and madam chair and commissioners. I already introduced myself. I work at Family Community
Development. I've been there over 21 years and I'm here today to talk about safety in our building. There is no safety. We had a customer come in and threaten one of our employees straight to his face that he will shoot him. >> True.
>> This is a everyday situation that we going on. Been here 21 years and been asking, we've been asking for metal detectives. >> Have always been told no. We live in a
different climate right now. We're in different circumstances right now. We have customers that come in, yell at us, threaten us, bang on desks. In Pleasantville,
they have no protection either at two South Main Street. The way their desks are assembled at two South Main Street, there is no way for them to get out if they're attacked. Again, we live in a different climate.
We want to go home to our families like y'all go home to y'all families. We need help. We can't sit there and say what happens. In 2014, Leah Coleman was stabbed 24 times by
someone walking in with a 9-in knife into the building. We don't want these problems at Atlanta County government. It's time to do something. It's time to protect your employees. Just like we
serve the customers, we are also your customers. We need help from the commissioners to get metal detectors in the building. You walk in the building, the state building, they got the sheriff's
officers, they got metal detectors. You walk in Atlanta City, city hall, they have metal detectors. Why at county government we do not have metal detectors? I wrote something down, but as I sit here, I'm speaking from the
heart for my members. We need help. We need protection. We deal with mental health people. We don't know how to deal with mental health people because we wasn't trained to deal with mental health people. We have no training. We don't know what
their moves may be when they walk in. You just sat here and said about the homeless and IDs. We deal with homeless population. We do not have the capacity to lose people at 1333 or two South Main
Street. Thank you, >> Mr. Chair. Yeah, sure. >> May I ask a question to to this lady? >> Are there any guards in the building? >> Yes, we have guards. >> Okay. >> Again, we have guards.
>> Nobody who's going to protect us? >> If the you had people, we had guards with guns. They're on the first floor. If something pop off on the third floor, how are they going to get to us? M. >> So you're saying there are guards with
gun with a gun on the first floor only. >> First floor >> entrance. >> He pushes the door to let people in. >> Just recently our gun scare. >> Yeah. It threw you to Jerry. I mean what's the barrier to putting that on
detectives? >> I'm not a security expert. One of the issues is that you do that sheriff's office. >> That's Michael. >> If you have metal detectives, you have to have two armed officers there in case
somebody has a gun. >> So, >> okay. Well, we did have we do have people that bring guns in the building. >> I'm just making a statement. If you have if you have federal detectives, you need two armed people there. Okay.
But if you have two sheriff officers across the street at the state building where they work for Atlanta County government, why they're not in our building >> and it's a county building >> and and they courts sheriff is designed to protect
the courts. That's why the sheriff's officers are in the courts. That's that's one of their key functions. Okay, hang on. Excuse me, ma'am. Hold on. I had I had the same question actually. Is protecting or counting?
>> How many How many Why don't you go through? How many officers do you have? How many different people do you have in the building? >> Two first floor. That's not enough. >> We have one that sits at the door with the armed guard, one that roams that he
may stay on the first floor because we have the homeless population that comes in. They come in with bags. They come in with suitcase. You don't know what they have in these bags or suitcases. >> Yeah. Is that >> close? That's Atlantic City.
>> Atlantic 133 Atlantic Avenue. >> This is Ky Mart. I also work for Atlantic County government. Um, if I'm not mistaken, we recently had over what is about 300 something people who got their food stamps stolen because of this big hack come into the building. And
then from there, people were coming in naturally upset. You know, their food stamps are going. So now they're our employees are getting threatened because they think Lanny County government is the reason why my food stamps are no longer there. >> Yeah. So again, security is an issue.
Like Melanie Griffin said, we do have the armed guard at the front door who sits there and I'mma give you a prime example like this >> cuz I'm watching a movie. This is what I'm doing. I'm role playing right now >> and I'm pressing the button. So you
don't you're not I'm showing eye contact of who's coming in. We do have regular guards and not to offend anyone in the senior comm community but we do have guards there who one of them work my mother at showbo was been closed for
what 30 some years so she about 75 what is she going to do besides help at that point like we we need more security because again we're not equipped to deal
with these people who has issues That's just point blank period. Yes, you know, the sheriffs are at city hall or the courthouse, but the county we deal with the the population we deal with, they not going to city hall.
>> They coming to the county because they're homeless. They have no food. They have mental. So, the first point of contact is one of our employees. So, what happens then? So, it it's going to take for something to happen to one of us for it to be or god forget for one
of them >> because they ain't going to the eighth floor. These people stop at the third. >> Who's on the third? I'm just going to leave it there. >> I have a question. If we put um metal
detectors in, is would it be sufficient to have just armed security guards there or does it have to be sheriff's officers? >> I'm asking it to hold on me. Yeah, that's that was the
mic administration. >> The armed guards can take care of the problem. I mean they they handcuffed they can do anything they >> so technically if we did put if we did put metal detectors in >> armed security guards would be sufficient. >> Yes.
>> So then we're talking about >> a money issue. That's what basically what it is cuz they don't where we don't have the money to get the medic like cut. >> No I'm just No, we're asking we're just trying to just trying to find out what's what we can do and what we can't do.
>> All right. So, >> you can also uh rather than metal detectors, you can also wand them. Get those those big black paddles. They look like >> they're metal detectors, too. >> You could just you could wand everybody coming in. >> Okay. >> Can we just do that?
>> Sounds good to me. >> Is that So, is that a possibility? >> I' I'd like to Mel, this question is for you now. >> So, you're in the building. We're not in the building. >> Yes. >> So, we don't see what's going on. Is this is it a training issue in terms of
the armed security guards? If we had better trained armed security, would that with with the addition of the metal detectors >> or the paddle >> or the paddles being winded down? So, if the if the armed security is not
watching a movie on his phone allegedly and he's they're trained to when they receive the people that come in the door, they wind everybody down. Would that be sufficient for you is my question. >> Yes, it will be sufficient because it's a start. >> It's a start to show that you care for
your employees >> and protecting us >> and see how that goes. And then if that's not working, then we could talk about possibly sheriff. Is that is that where is that where your stand is? >> Yes. But you got but also you got them threatening the employees and now the
employees have to walk to their cars. So while they walk to their cars, they can get attacked going to their cars as well. It's dangerous out here. >> Are you talking about >> No, we talking about it's a county building. >> Everyone doesn't park in a parking lot.
>> Okay. We The guards will mark will go out, walk anybody out of the building >> in the morning and in the afternoon. I have a a park ranger >> in the parking lot with his lights on. >> That just started. Uh, no. It's been We've been doing that for probably two
or three months. >> It just started two or three months ago. >> Okay. Okay. >> No, no, no, no. It's because I made a decision to do it. That's why. >> But somebody got threatened from the upper floor. So, >> okay. Hold on. Listen, I obviously won't
understand. We We appreciate the concerns. I'm sorry that you felt the need to come to the meeting to tell us that you don't feel safe. Um, we can offer suggestions. is ultimately to administration to who is there to check it out and make sure that our employees feel safe. But I mean this is a forum
you know to have your voices heard 100%. >> Can I ask one question? So you just said it's up to the county. So if they don't do anything what happens now you're putting yourself in a liability because we came here we have wrote several letters. Now if someone gets attacked
now you have a class action lawsuit on your hand. >> Yeah. Well, again, I hope I don't I don't think anybody up here saying we're not going to do anything. >> I didn't say he said he said it was up to the county. >> Correct. And that means that's up to Jerry and then you know
>> I'm not going to I'm not >> So I'm just saying if you're leaving it up to them and it's never going to get done because we've been asking for years. >> Ma'am, so this is again this this board does not have the authority to make those kinds of decisions at the county office building. We understand
>> this is the forum to have those concerns heard. All right. And I think every well, I'm not going to speak for the commissioners, but commissioners who spoke have sympathized with you and have tried to address the concern that you have. And so that's something hopefully will be done differently moving forward. >> All right. Thank you, >> Mr. Chair.
>> Yes, Commissioner Ghetto. >> I'll just make a formal request on the record. Mike, >> if you don't mind, please um assess the chance to add a guard and add wanding andor metal detectors. Um how how and when we could do that. And then I would
also ask that you look at the service contract for the guards and any expectation of performance that they are not meeting. We need to audit that and hold them accountable. and if not then we can certainly put it out to bid and
you know bring in somebody else if needed. I would ask I would make the request of those two items. >> Thank you. >> We uh we are very much in contact with the guards almost every day. Um and and any problems we call Tri County, we tell
them and we'll also tell the guard too. So I mean we're that's the guards at the county building that are armed are very very good. But but you're hearing you're hearing what what people are seeing. So let's audit it. If there there should be a standard of performance that they should
be actively watching their area. So I would just audit that that's happening. >> Okay. >> I will look at it. >> Thank you, Mike. >> Thank you, Mike. Are there any other public comments at this time? >> Yes. Good evening. My name is Yolanda
Lawson. I'm out of Springs, New Jersey for Ask Me the Labor Union. I represent the members at local 2302 and I have had conversations with Mr. Del Rosaso about metal detectors and or wands and I was clearly told that the county is not
doing that. That's why myself and these members are here today to beg you for some sort of resolution because these people are scared to go to work. >> They and they do an excellent job. They go in that building and they don't know
what is going to be ahead of them for the day. And again, when he says the guards are very good, they might be good people, but they're not paying attention to their jobs. And a simple wanding to make sure what they're bringing in their bags, because these are people that are bringing in luggage, suitcases. We don't
know what they have on them. >> We don't know what their mental capability is either. And like they said, they are not trained to deal with the mentally ill. So, if we could have some form of security to make them feel a little
safe, that would go a great way. >> And that's all I have to say. >> Jerry, is there a reason that we're not doing it now? >> Our conversations were is that we had plenty of guards in the building. As a matter of fact, Mike during one of these time periods actually put a third guard in the building and had them walk
through the building. >> So, we we've done stuff like that. uh add an additional officer. >> Tell me what's >> Can can I address the third guard in the building? The third guard in the building is was when the food stamps got
cut off. The third guard in the building was sitting in downstairs on the first floor. If you come in our building, Andrew, Mr. Parker, you've been in there, so you know the side where the library is at. They have three chairs. I had pictures. The guard sat in this
chair for a whole day and I asked where's the guard at for the second floor because it should be two guards on the second floor because of the food stance. Nobody knew where the guard was. Went upstairs to the sixth floor, asked about the guard. Then Jackie, who's our
guard, head guard downstairs, called somebody and they told them to bring the guard upstairs on the second floor, but his station was the first floor. Why are you at by the library? There's no customers coming there. All the customers is up on the second floor or the first floor. But they don't deal
with food stamps like the second floor do. So why is he down there? >> So that's where the bird was at. >> I'm sorry, J. I just want a follow-up question. >> Are you saying that we have you feel that we have adequate coverage of >> had conversations with everybody about
the cards? So now if if you guys would like us to do a little bit more, the only problem with this is as you heard, and this is what wrinkles me, I'm going to be quite honest with you. They know how to call me when something's bothering them. But when the guard's not doing their job, when we think we added
a third guard or a fourth guard and I'm listening to like three months later that the guard was sitting doing nothing or a guard sitting there looking at their phone watching movies. When I'm down there not doing that, when I go to My point is if they know that's going
on, they got to call us right away. I mean, I talk to Mike, I don't know, three times a month, four times a month about somebody that's not doing the job. Mike gets on right away. I mean, that's the point. >> If you've got SEC, if you if you think you've got enough security and they're
not doing their job, which is what I'm listening to, it's not that not not that you don't have enough cards. just not doing their job or some people are maybe not capable of doing the job then then that's the point I'd like to address you know I'd like people to do the damn job
if we're paying a a service to perform or an entity to perform a service to make sure that they're doing what they're required to do. Are there other cameras where I mean you said that they they should notify you if they see someone not doing what they're supposed to be doing. Are there cameras where someone can just observe it randomly as well?
Well, we were >> answer that. Before you start, is is it possible for the board of commissioners to request that you add the >> You can ask. >> Yeah, we will. I'd like to Can we make motion to to request that? >> To request what? The wands.
>> The wands. And >> I thought Amy did already. >> No, you didn't ask officially. >> I didn't do it. I didn't do it via a motion. >> Let's go. Let's go on record. I move I move that we uh >> amen amend it or add to it that when
they see something wrong they don't wait four months come here and get your daddy just call call >> excuse me excuse me we're gonna we're going to speak one I can't I can't hear what everybody's talking nobody can hear you're not going to hear any answers that anybody's able to provide
>> excuse me so but there's >> you If you if you see somebody not doing their job, >> who are you telling? >> No, he must have went up to the 85. >> Excuse me. Excuse me. We're not we're not going to have this back and forth. You need to address the chair, first of all. Secondly, this is not any way to
have your concerns addressed, honestly. Right. You you've expressed what you feel is unsafe working conditions. I think the commissioners who have spoken have sympathized with you, agreed with you, asked administration to look at other options moving forward. I think you've heard Jerry also say, "Can
someone notify me almost immediately if you see someone not doing what they're supposed to be doing?" >> But we was told not to stay. We was told not to interfere in secure. >> No, no, no. Don't no. Don't talk to the guard. Talk to someone from county administration.
>> We had at at that moment. Okay. >> We had Excuse me, >> Mr. Chair. I put a motion on the floor. Can I >> What was your motion again? I'm sorry. that we request that the county provide um >> wands and
>> wands or metal detector with the appropriate amount of guards required for such things >> and an audit of current >> security services. >> Absolutely. Y >> okay so there's so we do a roll call vote or we should
>> roll call >> roll call vote. Okay. >> So we have have a motion that's been made and seconded. So, roll call, please. >> Yes. >> Burns, >> yes. >> Daz, >> yes. >> Gat, >> yes. >> Kern, >> yes. >> Parker, >> yes. >> Grizzly, >> yes. >> Ruff,
>> yes. >> Days, >> yes. >> Is there any additional public comment? >> Yes. Hi. Um, my name is Margarite Burgess. I am really just speaking on the fact of wording is everything and the manner which you speak to people
says a lot. I can understand the frustration that Jerry may have had when indicating that maybe something was not reported to him in an immediate fashion or anybody at a floor in immediate fashion. But to use the word as bitching and that was his word. >> Yeah,
>> that that's what he said. That's what he said. You don't wait several months to be bitching about something. That says a lot about how a person perceives the individuals that are actually speaking to him in reference to what their issues
and concerns are. That should not be done because if I'm talking to you and I'm letting you know that I am upset about something or I'm expressing to you what my concerns are, please do not filter it through your mindset as though I am actually
bitching. No, what I'm doing is I am informing you of my concerns. >> And if that's the way you respond to me, that tells me that you're not concerned about my concerns or me. >> It's extremely disrespectful, especially
from someone at an administrative level. That is unacceptable. I think you actually owe them an apology for that. Whether you give that or not, we don't know, but you do. The other thing is is that you have some people
that because they are not the ones directly affected by what is going on. I'm not sure if you go through the front door when it's time for you to go to your office. You may go through a whole different door and you don't have to worry about coming in contact with the actual clients that they have to deal
with on a regular basis. And it's not just people that are homeless and it's not just people with mental illness. Everybody is going through something. Mhm. >> You do not know what it may have taken an individual to get up out the bed that day to try to get their mind in a
mindset to handle what may happen on that particular day and then have someone say the something to them that could send them less. You have absolutely no clue what it took to put a smile on someone's face in that moment
on that day at that time. You asked for us to be professional while we're dealing with people. Be professional with us when we're dealing with you because it's a two-way street. You want respect, give us the same respect. We are dealing with all
different types of issues and all different types of people on a daily basis. I do not understand why it should be that hard to want to make sure that the very people that you want to give 100% of themselves to the clients that they are coming in contact with some
form of security. >> I should not wake up in the morning fearful of what may happen to me when I walk into a building because I have a security guard. whether he is paying attention, not paying attention, looking at this person. You may indicate that this person's a friend of yours or whatever the case may be and you decide,
you know, let me just buzz the person in. That's all they're asking you to do. Care about them and give them the respect that they deserve, just like you want to be respected. All right. This time I'll entertain a
motion to close public comment. >> Move. Second. >> Moved and seconded. All in favor? >> I. >> Any comments for the good of the order? Hearing none. I'll enter a motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Move and seconded. All in favor?
>> I. >> Any opposed? >> All right. Meeting is a chair.