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Good evening. Uh, welcome to the Air Conservation Commission meeting on Thursday, June 11th, 2026 in Air Town Hall. This meeting of the Air Conservation Commission will be held in person at the location provided on this notice. Members of the public are welcome to

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attend this in-person meeting. Please note that while an option for remote attendance and/or participation via Zoom is being provided as a courtesy to the public, the meeting/hering will not be suspended or terminated if technological

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problems interrupt the virtual broadcast unless otherwise required by law. Members of the public with a particular interest in a specific item on this agenda should make plans for inperson versus virtual attendance accordingly.

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This meeting will be live on Zoom. The public may access proceedings by joining Zoom meeting ID 9787728220 or by calling 9292056099. For additional information about remote participation, please contact Heather Hamson, conservation agent at

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concomair.mma. us or 978-772-8220 extension 143 prior to the meeting. With us tonight in attendance is conservation agent Heather Hampson, clerk and member Jen Amaya,

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member George Bacon, member John Schmallenburgger, and myself as chair Jessica Gino. So first on the agenda is approval of the agenda. >> One change to the agenda. The request

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for determination for 50 deer run will not be here again this evening but we mean her uh did confirm her attendance on the 25th >> on the at the what? >> The 25th. The next meeting. >> Thank you. >> Okay. And uh Okay. So um

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>> since Mr. If you want, we can always change the order and have the re uh review of the um open c the two candidates for the conservation commission move to the front if you'd like. >> Okay. So, if if he's not here in the next couple minutes, why don't we make

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that change? >> Okay. >> George, make a motion >> to approve the agenda as amended. >> Second. >> All in favor? I >> I >> votes I opposed

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crickets. Okay. Next on the agenda are approval of meeting minutes, two sets. Uh first up is meeting minutes for May 14th, 2026, which our clerk just

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completely blew turning in for our last meeting. And so she should be >> I was actually testing to see if you actually read the minutes [laughter] by sending the old ones. Apparently, you do, so who knows? >> Okay. Uh, anybody have comments on the

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minutes for May 14th? >> I have a just a few little edits. Just mainly the uh correct spelling of uh Matt Hernand's last name is >> Sorry, Matt. >> H E R N O N. >> Okay. And uh

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>> um and what was and uh >> and I would just add under um the BL street thing uh removal of the culvert in a careful and controlled way. I would say remove remove the culvert and

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surrounding fill for excess crossing in a careful and controlled way because they're not just removing the culvert but all the material around it. Does that sound >> and my I'm going to hand you this.

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>> Okay, you hand me that and I'll [snorts] make the corrections cuz it's not on the signature page. >> I can just Thank you. You're welcome. >> And [snorts] then for the uh just to be specific for the money in the budget for one sign with a preference going to the

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Graten Harvard Road trail head location, I would just insert that and going Oh, and there's one bee missing and disturbed which disturbed me tremendously. Uh so

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>> you were just in a vacation. She was she was ready to go. >> And the only thing I'd say for future just for future it doesn't have to be done here is when we do vote to issue an order or or issue a a

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determination of applicability. I would just also note motion approved blah blah blah unanimously and signed or something like that just to indicate that we >> sign in >> because it has happened where

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>> in the past we've >> not had something to sign and so it's gotten led and then it gets confusing. >> Okay, that's all. Any other changes? Okay. Motion George, I'll take it away.

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>> Motion to approve the minutes of May 14th, 2026 as edited. >> Second. >> Okay. All in favor? >> I opposed. [snorts] >> Motion approved.

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Four to zero unanimously. Okay. Okay, the next set of minutes for May 28th, which because [clears throat] Jen insisted on going on vacation, they were very easy to do. Anybody have any comments, issues

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with that? Anybody? Okay. So, accept a motion on those. Take George. >> Motion approve the minutes May 28th, 2026 as written. Second. >> All in favor? I >> I opposed.

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Motion passes. Here you go, Heather. >> Thank you. Okay. Next on the agenda is the continued public hearing for the notice of intent filed by Sawyer May LLC for Orion Park Drive. Just to note this,

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this public hearing and notice of intent is reviewed only under the Arab wetlands bylaw and not under the state act. >> Welcome. >> And state your name for the public record. >> Uh Joe Catalo. I'm a manager of Soy May

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LLC. >> Okay. So, a lot has been going on. >> Yes. Yes, for sure. So, I'm here to report that I think we're

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almost there with respects to uh getting the um [clears throat] determination from um National Heritage. I keep referring them to them as mass fish and wildlife. So we we had a conference call today, actually a team's

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meeting with Tim from Fish and Wildlife, and there is a conservation restriction that was put on the property 19 years ago, and that is that is recorded at the registry of deeds.

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Uh he did not know that that existed prior to two weeks ago. So the conversation that we had today was just he needs a little bit of time to confirm that everything is in order. But we talked about snow

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storage at the end of the culdeac where it was to be located so that it did not run into the vernal pool as the spring mel you know snow melted in the spring and created contaminated

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calcium. Yeah. >> Infused storm water going into the vernal pool. >> So, what we talked about was we we located a spot on lot 4 where we will store snow and so forth. So, we

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submitted that plan to him. Uh we also talked about um the he wanted a um a lip at the end of the culdeac so that the critters can't come walk uphill into the culdeac that

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they will stay down in the habitat area. And um [clears throat] those are the main points that we discussed. he is going to review it um and give us a determination letter. He has

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[clears throat] by law 30 days but he did say that he will try to get it completed this month so that we can close on the property. He did walk the site. He was pretty impressed because he had a porcupine come up to him and [clears throat] I don't know that that's a good thing or a

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bad thing but he thought it was a pretty neat site. We did also talk about he wanted the he requested for us to minimize the detention basin and move it closer to

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the abuing property. And we told him that our concern was because there's a difference of probably 50 feet of grade elevation between our property and Lilac Court that we wanted to leave as many trees as we could for

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protection sound barrier and so forth. So he did seem to understand that and the basin is much smaller than it was designed in 2007. >> Yeah. And in speaking to the engineer that designed it in 2007, he designed

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that basin to accommodate all four lots, >> all four remaining lots. Um, the other thing that Tim talked about is he's going to just issue this permit or this determination for only lots four and five. So that if

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somebody comes back and buys lots two and three, they have to make sure that their detention basin or the detention basin will accommodate that storm water coming off those lots or if it needs to be located in another area outside of

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the conservation restricted area. >> Okay. >> So I think we're like I said I'm I think we're just about there other than having the letter. So hopefully you've you've given us a draft copy of a order of

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conditions. >> Yeah, I did that a while back and I don't think anything outside of what was in what you've stated fall under there because I believe we had a special condition on there to follow whatever letter of determination came from natural heritage would be followed into

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that deterine into that order. Um, I would like to also add that I know it's going to be in your letter from natural heritage, but it might even be poss if it is possible and amenable to you to include the the no snow storage within the culdeac area. Um, just so it's in

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multiple places. >> The only thing I would say about that is we're probably going to just have to work in concert with the town because it's a town >> accepted roadway. But certainly we will be owning those two lots. We have no issue with that. >> Or as maybe something as easy as a sign

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at the end of the call says no snow. >> Yeah. >> No dumping snow. >> We'll we'll work with that. >> Something like that. We could just add that condition on there. Beyond we typically don't I mean we usually we've had it in other conditions before not to have a sodium uh fluoride whatever calcium.

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>> Calcium chloride. Thank you. >> Jesus come back. Um salt on the road. And I said we discussed earlier too but I wanted to have um on the catch bases itself and no dumping >> written on there. I think the only on there beyond what we normally do for if needed the signage for no dumping would

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be out a certain point. >> So, Madame Chair, can can I ask that the board take a vote and and just be willing to grant us the order conditions once we receive the um determination letter from Fish and Wildlife so we can

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close on the property because that is really the last piece that we need. So you can't proceed on that until you have our our thing or >> we need both of you to say >> okay >> you're you're good and and certainly I

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understand you want to wait till you get the determination letter but if we could get them >> in tandem that would be great. >> Okay Heather what do you think? >> So we can uh vote to issue the order of conditions. We have the 21 days to issue the order. Um, so that would give us

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time for the next meeting, which is the 25th. And if they're in that since in the email they got today said hoping to have it done by the 30th, hopefully that five days is early enough um late enough that we could have that. We also said we already have that condition in there that anything that comes from Natural

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Heritage will be incorporated into the permit. Um, so we can vote to issue the order. Um, we don't have to sign the order until the next meeting. Um but we and we obviously can't close it because we're going to want to accept the whatever new information that comes from natural heritage. So we won't close the

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hearing, but we can make the order to the U motion to vote to issue the order >> and not sign yet. >> Well, we we'll wait to sign until the next meeting. >> See why it's not sign. [laughter] >> He did Tim did say, excuse me, he did say that he was going on vacation that

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last week. So he's hopeful that he can get this done before he goes on vacation. So, >> okay. >> Did anybody did the issue of the junk barb wire removal come up at all? >> We have no problem with removing that. I' I'd rather remove that than because

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actually >> with the way he wants to um have us finish that end of the culdeac off, you you really don't want any obstructions down there for the critters. So, >> that was never a conversation with him.

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We also hired uh Bob and Bob Durant who was um former Mass Fish and Wildlife to review everything just to try to keep pushing this along. So he was out there and we had a tick party out there. I got five,

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he got two, he got two, and his his uh associate got two. So we had nine ticks out there, which it's crazy. Absolutely crazy. But anyway, I think we're, as I said, I think we're heading in the right direction. >> We've only been talking about this for

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almost a year now, right? >> It's been a while. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But anyway. >> All right. John, George, what do you think about voting tonight? >> Okay. We won't sign a gender. Okay. All right. So, we will uh want to make a

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motion, George, to um approve the notice of intent. um an issue an order of conditions contingent upon incorporating whatever we receive from natural heritage into

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that. We will vote tonight but we won't sign until we do have that uh determination from natural heritage in hand. >> So second. >> Okay. All in favor? >> I opposed.

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Madam Chair, could I just ask if Heather could just send me an email to that effect just so I can >> keep all the >> people that want to loan money on this happy? >> Thank you very much for your help. Really appreciate it. So, >> we'll be on the agenda for the 25th

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unless I get it before then. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Have a good night. You too. >> And we have to continue. >> And we have to continue at your next meeting. Okay. Motion to continue the hearing until the June 25th.

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>> Second. >> All in favor? >> I opposed. >> Do I have to say opposed every time? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And the motion passes. >> It's a one word. Yes.

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>> Okay. All right. Um so next up is we have a vacancy on the commission and we have uh one person applying um that would be Andy McGregor who's present by Zoom.

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>> Yeah that screen over there >> and the uh hello and then we have in person uh Jacob Solon. So question is just we haven't done this in ages and

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George maybe I think the last time we had a choice was back when I was coming which was 18 years ago. >> Hope we don't make the same mistake. >> Yeah I know. Thank you. So

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do we interview both where both can watch each other or >> Yeah. It's an it's an open meeting. >> It's an open meeting. So yes, um it's your I would say it's up to your discretion on which one you would like to do first. Um I I don't I don't have a preference. I don't know if you wanted

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to take care of Zoom first and then do in person after or vice versa. You can ask the candidates themselves if they have a preference who would like to go first. >> Um I'm sure it's intimidating on either way. [laughter] >> Alphabetical. >> Yeah. I mean that's how the resumes work

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in a package. >> Alphabetical. Okay. Um, is there any way to >> I can't get it on that I don't know how to get it on that screen. I apologize. >> Okay. So, first up then we will interview Andy McGregor and let you introduce yourself and tell us a bit

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what about yourself and why you would like to be on this. >> Just do you want to move to that end? Just >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Sorry about that. Like even if I were to put that TV on it, it doesn't show the zoom. It shows the um shared screen. >> Okay.

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>> [snorts] >> And my IT skills are beyond changing that if it could be changed. >> I hear. >> Okay. So, um Andy.

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>> Yes. Can we be all right? >> Yep. >> Yes. >> Okay. Great. Um great. So, I'm Andy McGregor. Um I am pretty new to air. I just moved here in December with my wife and um we welcomed the baby daughter in

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March. So, um I'm here to stay and it's great. I So, I'm I'm applying because I saw this posting last weekend and I have been trying to stay civically engaged wherever I've gone. Um I've moved around

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Massachusetts for the past 10 years. Uh but, um air is the first place that I think I will stay for a long term. I mean, we have no plans to move away. So, I want to get involved in a more uh maybe permanent and responsible way than

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the ad hoc volunteers. And this seems like a great way to do it. >> Okay. And uh so you've worked on, as you put it, maintaining wild spaces in other communities. What does that entail?

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>> Yeah. So, um it it was usually um more informal one-off uh trail work and invasive pulling and trash cleanup events with different different groups. >> Okay.

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I met your wife on one of those. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's true. We were pulling out garlic mustard together. >> Okay. What's your general availability for we meet uh >> second >> second and fourth >> Thursday >> Thursdays of every month.

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>> Well um aside from tonight I I would be able to make let's say the next foreseeable year of meetings. Um currently I work in handover um in the office on Thursdays and I normally am home well before seven. Um this weekend

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we're traveling out for a wedding in upstate New York, but um we have no future travel plans. >> Yeah. Okay. So, we have usually we do our our twice a month meetings and then

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we also as needed periodically do sitewalks usually on Saturday mornings. Would that be >> an issue? >> We don't have it planned ahead. It's more as we review applications and uh

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which ones need to be reviewed in person. >> Yeah, I think with a bit of heads up or with a bit of notice, let's say like maybe a week or two or a meeting or two of heads up notice. It's also hard to say at this point because, you know, let's say this time last year, I might have gone

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>> hiking or had plans otherwise on the weekends, but with a with a baby, I don't think we're going to have as many plans. uh this summer or the next couple years. >> Okay. And uh

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questions from the commission. >> Um well, typically we don't have that long of time to know about the site. We you meet on a Thursday, we might want to go out that following Saturday if possible. Um

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or or a week after that almost at the most. >> Yeah. >> So there isn't a whole lot of lead time for this the sidewalks [snorts] just to give you a heads up. >> Yeah.

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Usually it's uh we review two kinds of applications in particular requests for determination of applicability which usually Heather our agent does the sitewalk on and advises us and then notices of intent. Um, and it's once

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we've talked to the applicant at a Thursday night meeting, then it's matter of coordinating a sitewalk, which usually they want to move as quickly as possible or we want to and it goes by our availability, but usually as as John said, the following um two days later

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and the following Saturday or sometimes the Saturday after or if the weather becomes uh horrible for that day, then we wind up postponing. But it's all sort of more of on a short schedule.

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>> And when when you say there's these sidewalks, it's a is it is it usually a morning activity like um >> Yeah. >> So So I was just scrolling through my calendar and you know to >> to share the personal details. There's kind of like two there's two kinds of events in my calendar. I I've got weddings. There's a lot of weddings this

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year >> and those are things that I've known about for a year. [laughter] But if it's late enough in the afternoon, like if they wrapped up by noon, that would be a problem. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. Our site visits, we usually try to go out between 8:30 and 9 and we're usually done by 10 10:30. So

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>> Oh. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And and then so the other group of things are like like I'm getting together with my my friends that are scattered around Boston. So um >> the other thing is that it's not always the case that all of us can make one particular date and that's we work

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around that. It's just the majority of us can make one. Somebody doesn't, that's okay. >> Sure. So, yeah. So, realistically, I would say I would be able to make most in the near future. [snorts] Um, >> I don't know what it's going to be like having a a baby, but um

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>> I can say that much. >> Yeah. >> Sure. >> What's What sort of uh when you've done trail work in the past, what has that entailed? >> Sure. Yeah. So, um, most of the trail

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work was with NEA, the New England Mountain Bikers Association. >> Um, so one significant project or I guess I guess the most significant projects have been rebuilding boardwalks. So, tearing down boardwalks. Um, doing a lot of uh grunt work to be

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frank, heavy lifting to and from, >> right? >> And another one was um kind of brushing in and brushing out trails in the Middle Sex Fells. Um >> Mhm. >> He was rebuilding um I don't know how to call it a a stone

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sort of a stone raised walkway over some um muddy muddy beds for erosion control. >> Mhm. >> Uh that's about the extent of it. >> Yeah. Okay. All right, John. Any more questions? >> Well, we don't really expect anyone to

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come in to the commission knowing everything or almost anything. >> [laughter] >> But >> it is helpful though. >> It would be helpful. But none of us >> Yeah. Yeah. Because I I don't [laughter] >> uh there's this thing called MACC, the

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Massachusetts Association of Conservation Commissioners, and they have uh seminars. What do you call it? >> They have uh twice a year they have conferences on a Saturday. One in the fall and October, one in the spring. Usually in March, this year was on the

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28th of February. Um, and in those they hold walk workshops and they have a certificate program called MACC fundamentals, which is about seven to eight different workshops that go through basically everything a conservation commissioner would need to

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know. They do offer those uh via uh webinars now, so you don't have to do them all in person. When I did them 18 years ago, they were only in person because Zoom didn't exist. Um, so they we have those things now and it it's gives it's a great chance for you to to

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meet either new commission members um and get answer questions and it gives you a rundown of how uh how to be a a good commission a good conservation commissioner. Um so >> updates on the wetland protection act

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the riverfront acts uh how to handle violations difficult sites and everything like and and everything in between. It's a statewide con uh conference, but we're fortunate because the the spring one is held at Holy Cross,

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which isn't far away, and the fall one is held >> is now in is now in Devon >> in Devon. So, it's near Devon. >> Uh there's a fee for these conferences, but that's part of our budget. So it's nothing anybody has to expend money for

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unless you buy a t-shirt there which I have done >> or be your class or campus. >> Yeah. Yeah. So that's and then uh usually then you pick up a lot of detail just from listening to the rest of us

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what what we say at meetings and also during meetings there is no question that's a bad question and usually if you have a question or somebody has a question um any members of the public who might

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watch our meetings online uh might have the same question. So That's that's great. I I feel like I I generally am uh open to ask the stupid question. Um so that's that's great.

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>> If if I'd only known that when I took Latin in seventh grade, >> sometimes you have to find that out the hard way by holding it in a little too long. >> Yeah. >> George, any questions from you? Um, so have you had any interaction with the

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conservation commission either? >> I've never never um in any town. >> Okay. So, as you were listening to our hearing earlier, you it's all

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we are first and foremost a permitting body. So we have to get down into the technical aspects of whether or not a project meets all the requirements of the regulations. It's not so much a uh

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environmental advocacy organization like uh National River Wershed Association. A lot of I've seen a number of people come on the board in the past and and find that out and just not stay stay on very

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long. So, uh, as Jess said, you don't have to know everything right away in this training. And, uh, what I've seen over the years is [snorts] different people will focus on different areas of the whole permitting

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process, whether it's the engineering or the aesthetics or or or whatever. So you you can probably find an niche to be to to work within. So you don't have to know everything.

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Um but I don't I just would don't want you to think it's more of a broader spectrum of an environmental organization. >> Yeah, this this about beats my expectations. Um I've read the past

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couple of months of minutes. I see a lot of storm water permit applications. >> Mhm. >> And that's that's great. I think it's an important function if not, you know, the most exciting to go up, but um an

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important function. Um I am a professionally an engineer, an electrical engineer though, so this this is uh quite foreign to me. But um the idea of permits and requirements is uh something I deal with every day and that's uh that's no problem.

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For the for the most part, we're constrained in our jurisdiction by uh what is legally given to us under the Wetland Protection Act >> and regulations >> and now our regulations um which strengthen some of the things we can do.

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Um, but I know some members of the public, it's like, why can't we stop this project or this project and they're they're outside of our jurisdiction and the state recognizes people's constitutional rights for private

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property and so on. So, that is an important restriction we have. >> Jen, any questions from you or George, did you have more? >> No. >> Okay, >> Jen, >> George and John covered most of it. One of the things that I remember being asked when I interviewed was just my

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comfort level and ability to read plans, which is something that we have to do a lot as an engineer. I'm sure that's something that you are comfortable doing, but I just wanted to make sure >> you like plans as much as we do. >> Like, >> could you elaborate a little bit more on >> Oh, sure. What kind of plan?

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>> Structural plan. Uh, construction plans, right? So, site plans would be a more appropriate word. Yeah, site plans with topographic lines. Um, it's usually the most important thing because you mentioned storm water. So, you look at the topographic lines. So, you can take a look at a project a site and you would know all the water's going to pull. And

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I do anyway, I've done this for a long time. You would understand where the where the water's going to pull and where it's not. Um, and you just overlook overall site. Um, as electrical engineer to rescale a little bit easier. That's one thing I think we all struggle with when we look at a project on the plan and go out on site and just go,

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"Well, it's a lot closer when you get on site than it does on the plan." Um, and that's just the scale of everything. Um, but it's it's more we we we basically look at um site plans. So, it's a plot like what you basically your plot plan for your house with every detail on it,

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whether it's stonewall, wetlands, and then whatever structure or materials you're coming into commission for to build. >> Buffer zone. >> No, you're wetlands. >> Yeah. 18 years I know how to do this now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And not all of us are as good at reading plans as others of us. >> Yeah.

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>> We all have our strengths, right? And I think one of the things that Mark was really good at is that. So I just want to make sure. >> Yeah. And reading plans is not actually my strongest suit. >> No. And we do have the regulations of the plan should be submitted in color and that does make a big difference. >> Yeah.

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>> Anyway, >> anyways, um yeah. So I guess to be transparent um as an electrical engineer usually the the type of plans that I would review are quite abstract. So it might not necessarily deal with physical distances.

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>> So I can't say that I have relevant experience. However though that sounds kind of fun to me. [laughter] So >> it can be I think I would enjoy that a little bit. >> Cool. Thank you. >> Okay. Heather any questions from you?

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No. Oh gosh. So like like him, I I started with the town 18 years ago in Littleton and I had absolutely no experience. Never worked for a town before and I was just told here's your desk and here's your office. Have fun. So >> yeah, >> I learned all I learned. Yeah. I worked

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in Littleton from 2008 to 2014. >> Oh, no. No. I graduated from I grew up in Littleton. I graduated in um 2014. >> Um so it was a you good luck. And I knew nothing about open meeting law or retention records [clears throat] and I had to learn all of it on the fly. Um,

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and it took several years, but we got there. And >> if you ever have any questions as a resident or if you do become on the commission or on another board, we have lots of other boards. If something that I can let you know other open seats that we have and other boards and commissions

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in town, um, feel free to email me or come by town hall. majority of us in the building loved new residents who are eager to learn about the town and and uh educate them. >> Great. Great. Yeah. And um yeah, that being said, I know there's a choice for

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this position. So, uh if it's not me, no hard feelings. Um I'll be around and I've still got a lot of energy for this stuff. So, that's great to hear. >> I'll eventually have a seat for sustainability if you want to do sustainability committee. >> Hey, that's great, too. >> One seat filled first. If if that seat

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was open, I probably would be there tonight >> here and I'm gonna have two open seats there. We can take one and go to the other. It's good. >> So, we also used to have to a non- voting associate member. >> Correct. >> We have to Well, I have to look into

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that further. Um, and we're going to look into what we're going to do because I might have to change add into our regulations that, but I have to talk with >> Robert and we might have to wait till after the first on that for council. >> Okay. Do you have any questions for us?

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>> I I actually don't have any questions that haven't been answered directly or indirectly. Uh thanks. Uh and there's been more information than I expected, so I appreciate that. >> Okay. Well, we're we're a pretty uh

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friendly commission and we we run a medium type ship. [clears throat] >> It's a little sick. H >> our ship won't sink. >> It won't sink, but um >> due to your lovely staff. >> Yes. Yeah. And we usually don't have

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contentious meetings with the public, but uh >> it's happened. >> John John's first uh first meeting as chair wound up being a >> kind of a scream fest. >> A screen fest. >> There's always there's always one project per year in town that's

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contentious. And we're been lucky that there hasn't been many wetlands on those yet. >> Yeah. All right. Okay. Well, thank you very much. Um I think what our process is, we'll be discussing this at the end of our meeting and then we'll let you know of our decision.

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>> Great. Uh thanks for considering me and thanks for um taking the effort to make this a hybrid meeting so I could join. >> Okay. No problem. No problem. >> Nice to meet you. >> Nice to meet you. >> Going to switch my seat back. >> Yes. >> Thankfully, the head of the table is

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available for you both times. >> That's right. Now you get the hot seat. >> All right. >> Hello. >> Hi there. So, next our next candidate for our commissioner vacancy is Jacob Solon. And would you like to tell us a

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little bit about yourself? >> Sure. Yes. Uh, I'm a resident over by Sandy Pond. Um, I moved here back in 2020. um and have slowly been kind of learning about the town and getting to know everybody and stuff. Um I had the

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chance to work with Pace for a year or so doing um some work with them and uh they that's a really busy group. They do a lot of stuff. So um that I actually had to step out of. So it's worth noting that my uh availability is definitely

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open but it's not extreme. So um yeah, that's that's definitely something to know. I I would be able to make all the meetings. Um it sounds like the site visits are within reason also. But definitely yeah um I'm interested in

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um sustainability. So that I didn't realize there have been more openings happening. >> Yeah, that's going to that's going on the select board on Tuesday. >> Okay. >> To to branch that out. So >> nice. Um, but yeah, I I uh I've been serving on the 71 Sandy Pond Committee, which is just specifically for that

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site. Um, and helping out figure out what to do there. So, that's that's definitely been >> a work in progress. >> It's a work in progress. Yeah. But very enlightening to know how everything happens in town and what you have to do to make stuff happen. So, >> yeah. >> At a sale pace. >> At a sales pace. Yeah. Probably for the

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best, I guess, in making decisions correctly, but can be frustrating. >> Yeah. Well, you could say at a snail pace or at a glacial pace, but with climate change. >> That's true. >> Pace of glaciers may be speeding up. So, >> it's just the bureaucracy of town and

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government, it just takes a long time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um but yeah, I've done um I have some background in conservation uh like educationally, but not expertise by any means. Um I took some classes in like like the philosophy of

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conservation. um like you know that kind of stuff and some basics basic like environmental science and stuff in college but not not nothing like I definitely would defer you guys to science related things. Um and yeah I those are sort of my interests in in

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this. Um, I'm curious if any questions >> and uh so PACE would have a different focus than we would in terms broader advocacy for the environment and

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we have our constraints. >> Yeah. So that was actually I did have a question about so it's mostly um permitting related like what you can and cannot do on the given spaces in the air. Is that correct? >> Correct. So the wetland protection act say they um gives this individual cities

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and towns uh conservation commission jurisdiction over 100 foot buffer of any wetland um 200 foot from every um per uh perennial stream. >> Um our our regulations give us a 200

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foot on perennial and intermittent streams. So streams that dry up in this in the summer but only one. So we are our are restrict and that the act also gives the cities and towns the ability to create their own regulations that can be stricter. >> Um >> I see. >> So we have that availability. Oddly

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enough there's like two or three cities and towns that I know of in Massachusetts have a two-month buffer. >> Wow. >> Which I just fig how the heck did you get that to pass? Um, so, uh, we we are able to do that and we do draft them and, um, we have been working on I have been working on re revising those

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regulations to add some other items on there. We do have the ability to do no construction um, no disturb zones and everything like that, but we are restricted to only that 100 foot and it's not the entire property if the wetlands on there. It's only that 100 ft.

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>> Okay. >> Um, >> or 200 feet from >> 200 feet from river. So when a if an application comes before us and the house is over the 100 foot buffer and it's only grading um we have no say over that house or its location or its size

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only what that grading is going to look like and >> and that's it. So it it can be it can be frustrating on the on the side of things when you have residents concerned that we're not doing enough. It's like well we'd love to do more. That's where I come in and we have our comment letters

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that I submit to the planning boards and uh for their projects and I just go it's outside of our jurisdiction and I speak at the as the commission but I'm sure you guys don't mind um that it would be nice if you know there was more native plants if we had you know two trash bins, one for recycling, one for and I

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just input some things that would be nice to see on a more sustainable or conservation side. Um as a staff member I can do that as a conservation commissioner. um the illability to comment on anything is not there. Um and we do have a

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we have that written in our regulations that state that anything a commissioner says is not binding. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um for both of you, you know, we have also uh a role with the planning board's um open space residential developments and

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it's [clears throat] written into the zoning bylaw that we provide a conservation recommendation. Mhm. >> Um so that is not necessarily in our legal jurisdiction for conservation buffer zone lands.

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>> Um but it does give us input into some larger projects. Uh our big success story is Stratton Hill. >> Yeah. >> Off of Wright Road where we had a strong advocacy for not doing anything north of

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the power lines. And as it wound up, the developer they they w finally wound up deciding just to restrain development south of the power lines and everything under the power lines which is also a kind of habitat as well as beyond is now going

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in has gone into a conservation restriction. >> Yeah. Is that the habitat viewing area up by the the power lines? >> Uh yes >> like up the hill and down down the hill again kind of. >> Yep. Yeah. that that part of that is going to be so part of that project and and fish and wildlife had a big game in

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that too and try to get that all protected because they have um stake in that too. It'sund over 105 acres in total into open space. Um everything along Long Pond um is going into part of the conservation restriction. Should that be that habitat? I think viewing

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area is on Long Pond. >> Um and then the upper part >> that's the habitat or I was thinking >> I was thinking of the one near the transfer station. So that's metal. Yeah, that's not >> And we are working and we are working to get all of that in the in the conservation restriction as well. It is

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owned by the conservation commission, but we're going to have a restriction. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So, we were able to have an impact done on that project, although I think there's only a little teeny sliver that we have jurisdiction over

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>> for the actual construction. And then there's the project off of Graten Harvard Road, um Lincoln Hills. >> Yes. Yeah. We did a conservation recommendation there, but we had absolutely no jurisdiction, >> right? >> Project.

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>> Yeah. And uh it was all that was all planning board. >> Yeah. >> Nice. Yeah. I would say I definitely come to this with some uh strong beliefs about conservation, but I also an awareness of the limits that we can do. Um but I definitely would be looking to

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do as much as we possibly can and not hold back in terms of conservation conservation. So take that as you will in terms of my attitude towards things. >> That's good. Um yeah. Okay. Questions

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from the other commissioners. >> John. >> Well, it's not our goal as a commission to stop development. It's it's just to >> if the development touches a wetland, we want them to be to follow the

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regulations and rules. >> And we just need you to be aware that there are certain things we can and can't do. Our motions a lot of times >> can't play into it. Um >> yeah, >> we can make decisions and they can all

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be appealed >> by the if the applicant doesn't agree with our decision, they can appeal it to the state and they can reverse it. >> Which has happened. >> It happens. Yeah. When you if you if you restrict something too too much and the applicant doesn't agree and they appeal it to the state and the state goes, "No,

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the commission was wrong." Every condition you put on there gets thrown out. >> Yeah. So you have to make that balance of >> what can we do and say to the property owner and and and ask for that is going to be accepted by them and not appealed

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because if it gets appealed to the state and not with and not held up on our end then we lose everything. >> Right. Right. >> And it's again I haven't had that myself. I I because I know it can happen. Um, so I try to make sure that's my job to try to steer the commission to

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to not do those >> Yeah. >> actions, but it's not always easy, >> right? >> Yeah, that's good to know. >> So, it's good to be passionate >> about the environment. Yes, >> for sure. >> But it can't control everything. Your

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passion can't control. >> Yeah. >> But again, it's one vote out of out of five. >> Sure. >> So, yeah. >> Yeah. >> Just let you guys know what you're getting into. So, yeah. I would say more along probably along the lines of wildlife management more than like protecting other non-human

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things on the planet besides that. That's that's sort of my perspective on things. So >> yeah, >> it would be in the mix. >> And you would be open for the MACC conferences to to >> I would Yes, that would be that would be >> I mean you can't make them all. We know

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that. But it is very very >> helpful and informative. >> Yeah. You know I definitely love I like learning. Yeah, that's >> probably the biggest thing. >> Get a nice t-shirt. >> A couple books. Lots of books. >> Yeah. >> Did you say a beer glass? >> Yes, I did. I got a I got a vernal I got

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from the pool association. It's got a It's got the spot of salamander on it. >> Oh, wow. >> It matches my my tote bag's got a I think Bland's turtle on or painted turtle. >> That's it for me. George

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>> Jen just same similar question or comment about plans and your comfort level there. >> Yeah. Um so I would say like yeah I'm definitely familiar with maps. >> Um elevation is probably the trickiest thing for me to read. So >> um >> it is hard. >> Yeah.

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>> But trails and maps I'm definitely pretty okay with. >> Yeah. I'm probably the only kid that learned how to read a topographic plan in seventh grade science. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Do you have any other questions for us? Or Heather, did you have any

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questions? >> No, I don't have any questions. >> Do you have any other questions for us? >> Um, I I don't think so. I mean, this excited to meet you all. Um, I this is actually pretty convenient to get to, so I might try and just keep going anyways even though I don't get it. So, um, >> yeah, >> hopefully see you all around. Um,

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>> yeah. and thank you for all the stuff you do. >> Oh, here I was given these little prize packs. So, here I I was like, "Oh, I gave one for when we have our interview." So, it's just Yeah, there's little books and stuff in there that an agent gave me. >> Oh, thanks. >> And and if you uh want any literature, I

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have a boat ton in my office. Feel free to stop by and I will >> a map of >> It's No, it's not a map. It's just some use the old plants for recycle. I can give you some magazines and pamphlets or whatever it is you would like. And I also have wildflower seeds in the office. Oh, great. This is Heather talking,

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right? >> Yes. Yes. So, sorry if you if anyone needs any wildflower seeds for their um house. Um I have a a basket in my office in the vestibule and I just brought some more down to the library. The library has lunch, too. >> And I also have books, too. I mean, one

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of them leans out to to lend out um on different items. >> Awesome. I just want to say too that one of the best things about being on the commission for me is being able to to meet people in in the in the town are our our citizens,

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you know, are >> your neighbors. >> They're our neighbors. >> Yeah. >> And we're here to help >> basically, right? We're here to help. One of the side hustles that Heather also gets gets the commission involved

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in is uh suggesting or monitoring scout projects. >> Yes. >> That um >> Eagle Scout projects. >> Eagle Scout projects. Both >> boys and girls. >> Yep. Because um getting budgeting and money for improvements on conservation

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trails or conservation land is tricky and far between when budget season. So, I like to keep a laundry list of projects I'd like to see done, and if a Eagle Scout comes through, I can say, "Well, I have these if you'd like to do it." >> Speaking of which, [snorts]

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did we ever get the them to replace the board? >> I did mention it to them. I hadn't heard. Um, so I don't I don't know. >> We'll check on that. >> Yeah. >> Um, the other thing is we What was I going to say? We also oversee

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the treatment for uh invasive invasive aquatic vegetation on Sandy Pond, Flanigan Pond and uh Pime Meadow Pond >> and that usually there's always a few point of questions at town meeting about

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that but um we have looked into many alternatives and unless somebody wants to come up with a few million dollars for dredging etc. Mhm. >> You know, we sort of limited, but the state also has now new um preferences on

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treatment ponds too. So, >> anyway, we do the best we can >> and uh >> we have learned in the process that sterilized carp are not a good environmental solution for controlling more invasives than to treat invasives.

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>> Yeah. >> And illegal. >> And except for the purple loose stripes, those little bugs. >> Yeah. >> That was an experiment. Yes. So, we we are open to side side side ventures occasionally. >> There's pocket forests that always need attending too.

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>> Yeah. >> So, that having said that, are you we haven't turned either of you off yet, I presume? >> Not yet. >> Both still interested? >> Yeah, sounds great. >> Okay. >> All right. full

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move on from there and say thank you very much and we'll have a discussion and then we'll >> get back. >> Sure. Nice to meet you. >> And thank you. Okay. >> Okay. >> So, what's

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next on our agenda is um >> updates. Okay. We've done Yeah. updates, which I'd like to add in there. We have to pick a vice chair. >> Okay. >> But we don't have to.

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>> We don't have to advertise that in advance. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That that's not the board. That's fine. We can do that. >> So, we have two candidates for vice chair, John Schmallenberger and George Bin. They're going to arm wrestle. [laughter]

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I thought we'd go to the White House and give him a cage. >> We could have [laughter] We could have a cage match. >> Jen can't do it because she's now clerk >> unless you want to. >> So, I'm not capable of No, I'm >> You can do

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>> Welcome to [laughter] >> um any strong feelings either of you want to Somebody has to be vice chair. >> Yep. Vice chair. Can we leave it until we get more like if neither one of them want to do it even though they would both be spectacular vice chairs? Can we

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wait until we have a fifth member? >> We we can't we can wait till we have a fifth member. I mean it's not typical that we would have a new member be the vice chair. >> I didn't think so either, but I figured they neither one of them was like yes, my dream come true. >> I was just waiting for George to speak up. >> Oh,

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>> true. >> I'm happy to do it if he if you don't want to. >> I'm happy to do it, too. Is that right? >> Oh boy. >> Pick pick the person you like the best. Jess >> Jess is nominating to pick one. >> No, I can't do that. [laughter] >> I think our agent should

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>> Oh, no. That's not my job. >> Any meeting my name? >> George. >> Does that seem fair? >> Yeah. Actually, it's time for George to get back in the rotation. You have a little bit of time off. >> Yeah.

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>> Yeah. A few years. >> Okay. So, we will George, do we have to vote? >> You can make a mo. Someone has to make a motion to nominate um George for vice chair. So, second it and you vote. >> I make a motion to nominate George Bacon to be our vice chair >> for the following year.

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>> For the next year. >> Yeah. >> Second. [snorts] >> All in favor? >> I >> I opposed. >> Abstain. Okay. >> So, a question. Now, when you have

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meetings with the town manager and other certain people, it's nice to have two people present. >> Yes. >> You can't have three. >> No. >> Yeah. >> But it is nice to have two people present. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, if there's a time that you can't do

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it, I would sit in your sit. But otherwise, >> you're the man. >> Yeah. We like to outnumber the town manager two to one at least. So, >> okay. Uh, updates, >> updates, updates, updates. Okay. So,

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first off, I have on the agenda, um, I went out to nine Victor Drive on Monday. It was Monday. Um, the gentleman who lives in that house has a had an order of conditions um, for the property for a project um, on there that is now being

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changed. Um, I had him do a brief sketch, but it's a little all over the place. The majority of the work, um, within the 25T buffer zone because the stream is right there and it was already improved before that we're going to do grading

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and and planting and everything within the zero to walk into 25. Um, is going to basically stay the same. It's just going to be grading and landscaping there. um an additional and every if you drive by the site there's lots of there's a shed and materials just a lot

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of stuff on that side of the driveway that is all now going to come out >> and it'll be graded and planted and and look much nicer tiered with walls going down to the wetlands. Um he does have chickens and a duck and ducks um

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>> and he's putting in a building there >> with the really steep >> Yes. steep down to that. >> I know it's all clay, too. It's kind of like the chickens are being taken out or just the shed as the shed in storage is is is moving everything out. I asked him while I was out on site if he could

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while he's revising his plans, move all structures outside of the 25 foot zone and he said, "Okay." So, that's what he's looking to do. The issue I question I have given the changes to the plans.

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Granted, they are going to be I what I would think more minor in nature and I did because of the amount of work he has to do on site and he's trying to do it all himself. I did tell him that I I didn't care if it took him six years to plant everything. If as long if he has

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grand schemes of having a landscaped buffer, he can take his time doing that. And I did suggest if you do like a um a shade wetland mix along the along the slope because that would probably take better than planting grass. Um you know the ducks would probably really like the

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grass that you want. Um so it's it's just the commission is comfortable with an just a site change or if we would need full engineered plans in an amended order. >> When did we issue this order? >> Yeah. Yeah. I remember being there.

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>> It was a long time ago still in effect with the extension act. >> The extension act is there. Um there's there's a question on some of that that we'll get to later, but I I just want this question first. >> Can you can you tell me again please what what is he what's

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>> he's So he's he's that's a hard time getting an answer out of him on that. Um what was on there is So there was it's basically instead of having one wall going straight down and then slight grading and then there was a

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lot of grading in the back corner of the property more towards the um uh wetland the perennial stream area. He's doing everything level and he's instead of having one retaining wall, it's going to be more staged >> stepped. >> Yeah, it's going to be stepped. So it's

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not going to be a lot of fill and it's going to basically work as much as you can with the existing grade and then tear it instead of >> it's very similar to what he was doing. >> Um it just the way he was talking is it and then looking at the plan it looked like this would be very different but

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it's more or less moving stuff further out of the wetland and relo and relocating what was done on the plans and what he's actually going to do. step. >> It It did. It seemed better with this with the stairs with it with a tiered system. >> It will reduce the amount of work that's

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going to be done because you're going to be working more or less with the existing grade. >> The drive the driveway will be longer. They are he is doing more pavement on there. um uh more or less all the way back into the existing But it at the same

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time had this hard time understanding what he was doing because he he was going back and forth and looking at the plans. The building itself is getting smaller. The proposed building it is going to be six feet shorter. So I think as opposed that's where

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there'll be extra pavement. So it's not on that aspect I think really changing. >> So it's not going to change the amount of surface that's impermeable. It's going to be either a building or driveway, right? So, >> that's what I got from it. But I think what I'd have to see what he I I just

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say I don't have an actual plan of what he's proposing to do, an engineered plan and as and I understand I'm sure the commission does too that engineered plans are are expensive to get done. Um so that's where it's one of those things where like we we he has these plans here

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to get revised ones. It would cost. So I just I um so I had him draw what we was going to do and it was more or less everything on the side of the building is just grading and landscaping and then the building itself in a driveway. Um it is different than what is on the

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approved plans as opposed to what or may not be either more or less grading and where actual buildings will be located as far as the shed and sea container and chicken coop and everything like that. But the grand scheme of the overall project is the same. And what's the time

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frame for this? I mean, he's been a long >> It's it's it's that's the other thing is I don't know. He still hasn't submitted a building permit yet. Um, so I don't know how long it's going to be until he has everything done and then and the the timeline on the application is is is running out.

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>> So this could be would this be an amendment to the existing order of conditions? we could handle it that way without requiring >> well we if we doing an amendment we would need revised plans and I don't we couldn't do handdrawn revised plans >> okay

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>> so you know simple site change >> like a site change >> okay >> that would just be handled as a um in the uh as the question >> George what do you think >> yeah we could get a decent narrative of

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what he's going to too. >> Okay. >> I' I'd be okay with >> getting a nice narrative on what he's looking to do. >> Yeah. Just a sight change. >> Sketch. >> Yes. And I said I have I have a sketch on my existing plan >> um of what he's looking to do, but I I

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can reach out to him. He couldn't make it this evening. He works nights. >> Um because I did ask him if he could come, but yeah, he said he works nights. So, I I can do that. And then when if for some reason when he comes in for the building permit, if things look radically different, then we can I can go from there on that.

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>> Is he gonna have to get a new plan for the building permit? >> Yeah, he we Yeah, he'll have to have a a a he'll have a structural plan for the building permit. Whether it's a um unfortunately when building permits come in, it's not always a site plan. It's

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just the structural plan. So, it won't show what where it is on the on on the property. That's where the issues come. But I I mean I can get the schematics on there with the size to figure that out. >> Any other questions here? It'd be nice not to have to

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>> not to have him paying a lot of money. >> That that's I mean I felt bad for him like I I mean I know another full instead of playing Brandon you already have this and making the changes it could still run you $1,000 or more. So >> yeah, >> it sounds like he should do an extension

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on the order of conditions anyways. >> Yep. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um for an extension. >> Yeah. >> Well, that's the that's the only thing we have to ask on that. If you were to do an extension because it already was

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extended from the extension act for two years, >> right? >> So, you already had five years of the project. >> Yeah. >> Um would you entertain another extension? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Just a lot has gone on in the last year.

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>> No, no, there there has. I I I agree with you. I I think that only having the two-year extension, I don't think nearly enough it should have been more a three-year like it did during um the recession. Um other than that, it's two two little couple other little things. Um

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the property at 42 Park Street. >> Um I did send them a letter today. Um the we're trying to get them to to complete their project over there. Um, and there's been some miscommunications going on on whether it's it's done to

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the approved plan or done correctly. So, um, I did send, uh, the owner a letter today, um, email and in, uh, mailed one. Um, per our regulations, it states they're allowed to be electronic. So, it's not a technically a violation. it

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basically just requiring um that if they are done with the project and they have to meet their special order conditions requirements under 52 I think it is. Yeah, 52 for the asbuilt pictures and the new dumping signs to prove those are on site and have me go out and inspect

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those. If it's not then I need a timeline on when the work will be completed. Um because from the last the time that I had been on site and I had we had spoken with the u owner [snorts] back in Febru January and the last asbelt we got last August. Um the

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additional pavement area that was supposed to be removed and and turned to a loom and seated is still gravel. >> Still gravel. >> Okay. >> Is this the the piece of property with the beauty some on it now? >> Yeah. So just so you know um I did send that ladder today.

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>> Um and and that was reviewed by uh town manager's office as well. So the spell check and everything [laughter] um fun uh little things going on in town or around town um this weekend. Um I

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signed up for one um North County Land Trust and I'm not going to go one. North Kind Land Trust is having a wild me wildflower meadow in Manowanaki for which is basically pocket tours uh tour in Lunberg on Saturday starting at 8. It

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was 8 to12. >> I was I signed up to go to that. Um, and then I found an invasive plants workshop that I was notified from the Harvard uh climate incentive which is their sustainability committee and they are

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having Sudbury Valley trustees which is their land trust in their uh area is doing an invasive plant workshop on Saturday at 10 and it's going to help you identify combat and dispose properly of common invasives like burning bush

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multifllora rose but bitter sweet notweed and more and teach you how to use the tools that they have at their library of their library of things. Um some of which I have suggested that our library get um and I might put in more of that suggestion if we haven't gotten

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them yet to our library. So >> where is that workshop >> that you're meeting at the small nature trail at the Hilddrth Elementary School. Um it is on I have it posted here in town hall. I do

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have a copy of it. I didn't get it put on face online, but the um Harvard climate incentive and I'm sure it's you can find it through them to the town of Harvard. I'm pretty sure it's on their website. >> Send them take a picture. >> You can have that if you need it. I have

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a copy of my office. Um and if anyone's interested in the Meadow Tour, um Sbury Valley uh North County Land Trust on their website, they have a tab for events and you can sign up for that. That is free. Um, if anybody wants to, they also have a Do you want to help?

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And I think they in Templeton avasive plant pole in a couple weeks. [snorts] So, since I know that the North Carolina land trust is doing activities like this now, they're going to be more involved in air. Hopefully, we can get them to do some of these activities here. As we get

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more um CRS up and running and in place, we can get some them to do some of those activities here. Um, but that one in Lutonberg might be a great way if anyone does want to go to meet um some of the people that work for uh North County

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Land Trust and learn about um planting your own u wildflower bed. >> Okay. >> Um in regards to that, so we I have like I said, we have wildflower seeds that I bought with some of the last of our budget um that we had a while ago before

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we bought our sign. Now we have no budget basically left. Um, okay. So the I have the wildflower seeds here and I bring them send some to the library and they've been giving them away because for their summer reading program they're it's a plant a seed. So they're trying

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to do a get their seed library up and running. So part of that is I just bringing them some wildflower seeds, some wild meadow mix and then um I brought them some Joe pine wheat today as well. So, if anyone can't make it to town hall during open hours, the library

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has seeds and if they run out, I have more and I will bring them. >> Do you have a desire to get your that herbicide license? >> I do. I need to look into it more and I got to talk with the um

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with Robert and um Danny about that. Um and we'll probably that when we do my review, but I do need to look into it and get all the information when the classes are. Uh I just think it's an asset to the town to have somebody in town have it, whether it's myself or some of the DPW just to help with some

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of the um invasives that we have in town. >> Yeah. >> Um because we do have quite a bit of um bittersweet and multifllora rolls and autumn olive and and other things like that. And the Japanese knotweed, which I do pull almost every week outside of here that I'm I got a good fruit today.

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I'm like I'm so I'm hoping I can get rid of it in in the front side here. Just pulling the big groups. But um >> did you see the thing I sent you about the support groups and Facebook? >> I you I did I >> I haven't I haven't joined those yet because I'm so too busy with my my trolls ones.

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>> I I joined the u the open public one. >> Okay. But um yeah, so the the the herbicide application license um I do knew one the agent the director in Stow had hers and then I believe the conservation agent

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who's also the tree warden in Long Meadow has hers. She hasn't used it. The one in Stow used to use hers all the time. >> Whoever comes up with an herbicide to kill notweed is going to be a billionaire.

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something effective. >> It's a It's a tricky one. >> It is. >> I mean, the biggest thing is is that you have to smother it or dig it out. >> Yeah. >> Or what we could import some of the insects and the fungi from Japan that

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keep it in check. >> What could go wrong? What could go wrong? >> It'll come in someone's team order. Don't worry, it's coming. [laughter] >> All right. Anything for you? And you, sir? And you, sir?

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>> Couple of swans on >> pond or I mean, what do you call them? >> Signets. >> Couple of signets. >> And Okay. So, on the regulations, what do you want to do there now?

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>> Okay. Yes. So, um, with the regulations, so I brought sent them to Danny. He pointed out some things that needed to be corrected. I I changed on those. Um uh which were minor that he had no issue with it. It was more or less explaining

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what the vernal pool would be. Um as far as the 200 foot buffer that again I put in there. The commission can that's that's my that's my thing. That's you can be like no we don't want to do that. That's fine. So it's just to define what it would be and it's just more or less

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oversight. So instead of having a 100 foot buffer, we'd have a 200 foot buffer. It doesn't restrict anything. Doesn't it still follows the no build bill, whatever, no disturb it, but nothing beyond that. It's just more oversight, no restriction. Um, and then I think there and it was

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the and then the waiver. Um, I had that we weren't going to grant waivers. I just took that out because it is kind of ridiculous because we do have the right to not grant waivers written in there. Um, I think that was basically it. So, it's more or less I know when >> a bunch of edits.

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>> Yes. And I when the last time we had there was a lot of question in regards to why is this in here? Why is that? And you and Mark were going back and forth trying to figure it out. So, I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. >> I'll let you deal with that. >> All right. There was one paragraph on undisturbed land.

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>> Uhhuh. That said, is land determined by the commission to be of a predominantly natural character or land which was altered after May 1996 without a permit from the commission. Which is like what? So [snorts] I was looking that up more

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today and I could suggest and edit it. >> Okay, that's because that's that's yours. So >> yeah. So how does this undisturbed land is land determined by the commission to be of a predominantly natural character parenthesis native trees, shrubs and ground cover or land that has not been

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modified by human activity, clearing, grading, paving, digging or cutting of vegetation for a significant length of time. In contrast, disturbed land is is land that has previously been and remains modified by human activity, lawns, driveways, small structures,

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septic systems, and I don't know exactly from some other areas, we could say at the commission's discretion, land that was altered after December 1986, but without a permit may be considered undisturbed. Or is that

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getting into a >> That's getting too much into a >> Yeah. Okay. So >> because satellite images beyond that and indoor old building permits or plans are going to be hard to come by if they're that old. >> So I just wanted something that made a little more sense than what we originally had

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>> now for a significant length of time. >> Yeah, that's the thing that I that's >> all this that will have to go to council too, >> right? >> Um >> I do know and I'll give you this. >> Yeah. um that from our open space residential bylaw

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>> in air uh talks about when I was googling undisturbed land it Google in its wisdom gave me this as one of the things to look at forested areas that have been allowed to develop undisturbed and naturally for a significant length

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of time at least 50 years without notable human disturbance. >> I don't I don't like that. >> I don't like that. Okay. >> You don't like to >> I don't like the 50 years. >> Okay. What do you >> Well, because I I look at this way. So, if I if I own a property and I'm by the

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pond and I decide as when I own it that I don't want to I don't want to distur I live it for 15 years and I let natural vegetation take over. A new buyer comes in and goes, "Okay, now I want to cut it." >> And because it's only been 15 years, you're going to say that's that's disturbed.

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>> Okay. >> I thought you said 50. 50 >> 50. >> Yeah. So I'm saying 50 is too long. >> Okay. So >> because Stratton Hill was completely clear was mo mostly clearcut sat empty for what 15 20 years

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>> and we saw how big those aspens and stuff grew up. So for a significant length of time, [snorts] it's I mean, do we want to allow for the possibility that something that hasn't been touched for a long period of time

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should stay untouched? I mean, technically everything in Massachusetts was disturbed once during the colonial period. >> Yeah, I know. We have more trees now than we did back then. Um, >> yeah, >> I >> this is a suggestion that you can >> Yeah, we can we can work with it a little bit.

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>> Talk to Danny about it. >> Yeah, I'll talk to Danny about it next week. >> I said I my goal for that and obviously we're we're going to we got to pick our recommendation to the select board so I can get that to them so it can be on the agenda for Tuesday um before we adjourn this evening is to get the regulations

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um on our agenda before the end of July. Um, I think having them as a discussion ready to almost ready to go to public hearing or to public hearing for the second or third meeting for our new member I think is a good thing for them

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to to witness and go through. Um, it might be I mean they'll just sit there and listen and learn but I think that's a a good way to where we have very few applications before us. Um I think having you know a discussion to go through the the regulations like this

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and then go to the public hearing aspect of it I think is a >> um that's the reason why I sent it with that suggestion. I just think having that as a you know going through is a good first meeting for them. >> Okay. >> So they can understand the bureaucracy of how we you know go through our regulations and and what goes in the

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detail of that. It was just actually a town meeting or I was like, "No, no, no, no, no, no." We would we were through everything and then when it goes to town and we've had this on the agenda a few times. Um, Robert and Danny wanted to go to the land use meeting too for their

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input on my um to for that. So, um, but again, there's not much in there that I don't think is is too much of a controversy, >> especially since I did now state how what the Bernal pool buffer details. >> So, I'll give you this, too. And then and then

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>> I'll go through that and I'll and I'll go through it and we can have this discussion again at the next meeting >> with the with the understanding that we will go to a public hearing if not the first meeting in July, probably the second meeting in July. >> Okay. Um, >> so that gives town council time to review.

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>> One thing just to uh make into bring into agreement is um one section we had evaluating the um tree removal by looking at diameter of a

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>> yeah diameter tree breast height. >> Oh yeah. And I suppose that should not be truck but tree. [snorts] And we on one page we have a height of 4 feet and at the very end when we have the performance standards we talk about 5T. >> Okay.

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>> And I put those in. Thank you. I might have just >> Yeah. I don't know. >> So um so why don't you go through that? >> I will. >> I mean a bunch of those are edits you could also just make because they're little little things.

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>> Yeah. I will go through that and I'll go through the tree one as well [clears throat] and see how it um looks against the tree bylaw that I'm looking at having >> as well. >> Okay. Um

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one last uh thing before we talk about candidates would be the um saw the thing from uh MACC about the mass ready act. >> Oh yeah. and that they

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it has a good potential for um I mean I'm not sure to what extent this is I think what MACC >> oh in regards to the the the regulations >> yeah well saying that the uh there's

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some suggestions that exempt priority housing projects from local uh wetlands >> that that's always been in there and that's why we that's why as far as the MACC and MSNCP, we asked them to define what priority housing was because there

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was no definition and they now do have a definition for priority housing. >> Okay. And it still could eliminate >> still. Yep. And one of the other um items that MACC had brought up in MSMCP was was brought to us was the um

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if a city or town had a wetlands bylaw and or regulation, it could count negative it would count negatively against them in a grant application and that is part of the mass writing act. >> Yeah. So is there anything

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that we as individual commissioners >> so it's before the was it ways committee of ways and means measures whatever that committee so the suggestion was was to just either reach out to the way the committee of ways and means andor your

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state rep um to express your concern um we are a state of Massachusetts it's a home rule state we are encouraged to create our own regulations and bylaws per the state legislature to then either

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one ignore them um strictly for housing purposes um or count a town negatively for having them in a grant application goes against that home policy >> which seems really unfair

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>> yeah considering out of the 351 cities and towns um 60% or more have bylaws and regulations So, I understand the whole point of trying to give money to these towns that don't always go for application, but that's not a way to do

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that. >> Yeah. I mean, it just seems like it's giving developers >> Yeah. The reason why cities and towns that don't have bylaw regulations is most likely they don't have staff >> and they already have a set of funding set aside in most grants for small rural

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towns. >> Yeah. >> And tribal communities. >> Okay. All right. Uh, finally, >> so we have two candidates. >> If we get if we make a decision tonight,

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>> do people feel we're ready to make a decision? >> Uh, just so you know, if you do not make a decision tonight and it doesn't get to the select board on Tuesday, they do not meet again until the end of July, >> right? >> Because they're on a summer schedule. >> Ready to make a decision.

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wanted to throw that >> chime and say I'm still on the line. I can drop if um you would prefer that. >> Um you don't have to because it's public meeting but you can't you can't state otherwise. Yeah, because it is a public meeting.

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>> Gotcha. Okay, good to know. But I I will drop anyways. Um thanks for your time and um hear from you later. Bye. >> Okay, thank you. All right. So, I think we do have two good candidates. How do we proceed? Secret vote, secret

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ballot. Uh, discussion, vote, and then if we don't agree, discussion, and then vote. >> Say it again. >> Vote and maybe we all agree already and then we don't have to talk about it. Or vote. We don't agree. Discussion and then vote again. >> So, who's going to make the decree and

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who's going to make the most vote? Oh, we have to make a motion. >> Yes. Oh, >> I do think they're both good candidates. Uh I do like that Jacob's a little bit has been in town a bit longer. Um [snorts]

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but I would love to look at the associate membership criteria. Talk about that with because I'd like to keep whoever we pick, I'd like to keep the other engaged if we can. Is that possible? >> Yeah.

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>> Yeah. So the just so you know like I said um again before the select board I'll be going for the select board one for the appointment of the new member your reappointment Jen and then before the for the sustainability committee we're re reorganizing it to be a

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completely residential committee. >> Um so we will be looking for two more members. Um and along with that there's other open seats in within the town. So Carly in the town manager's office will be creating a a list of any all the open seats.

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>> Yeah. >> Um and putting that out there. So if if for some reason whichever person we do not pick, you guys do not pick. I'm not picking. Um there are other opportunities for them to serve the town on a different aspect of things. >> So of our two candidates for your

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sustainability committee, you can only have one. >> You can't have both of them. >> She tried to have both though. Did you notice? She's like, "Well, actually, >> yeah, >> I was just trying to get people who if they weren't, we have two interesting candidates within conservation. If one

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of them didn't get picked and obviously one's not going to get picked and they still wanted to help the town and have that interest, I just wanted to mention to them that they have another avenue to help um as an advisory board of the sustainability committee." >> Okay.

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>> Which I worked on or I run for. >> All right, let's just go around. John John, what are your feelings? >> Well, I've worked with Jacob on the 71 Sandy Pond project and

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he's he has good ideas. He has strong opinions and I think he's a steady guy. He made he altered his schedule to be able to

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free up Thursday evenings, which is shows some commitment already. Um, not to say that Andy isn't a good candidate either. I just had more

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an experience with with Jacob. I've known him. I've worked with them. >> Okay, >> that's the only difference. >> George, you have not worked with either. What about you? >> Uh, well, I have a certain

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bias towards engineers. [laughter] Although I think uh Jacob was a little more engaged in the subject during the the hearing and not he was

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just looking at his phone. >> He was sitting there looking at his phone. >> Yeah. >> Rather than paying attention to what was going on. >> Um [snorts] Either one would be fine. >> I don't know how to decide.

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>> I would either Jeny. I would be fine with either. I feel I would if I was voting for one, I'd probably choose Sandy over Jacob. Probably more because of the engineering or technical background and Jacob the passion is absolutely there. Um, it just

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he felt like he was more of a like a more sustainability kind of guy. And I don't want to make him vote to get rid of beavers cuz that's hard. I mean, that would be >> We never vote to get rid of beavers.

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>> When did we do that? >> When the beaver deceivers stop working and we can't rehome them because Massachusetts doesn't allow it. So, we had to vote to get rid of them. >> Yeah. Sometime sometimes you vote. Sometimes you >> Yeah. Yeah. Traffic. Not it's not often. I mean when I was first started up there was a lot more trapping in and

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everything than there is now but yeah know sometimes you do >> blank it from my memory. Yeah. >> Um which I mean like it's part of the job and everything but um I just felt like Andy on the technical side because that's really to George's point in the interviews, right? Like that's our focus. Our focus isn't necessarily on

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the the funner stuff sometimes. Not that you all aren't fun because you are. Um, but again, I would be happy with either one. I think they'd both be great. >> Agreed. We've got four people.

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>> Well, like, can we not have an extra person? >> So, the the state um questioned the law on on um alternate members is is very tricky. Um I did ask the question because it did come up when I was doing the regulations.

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Um we apparently you guys say we have the ability to have an associate. might have to find where that's written. Um, we would put it, we might just better off adding that to the regulations, but they are a non voting non >> anything member. It's it's more or less just basically having somebody sitting in the audience.

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>> Well, so it's also giving somebody an opportunity to learn the education >> the education to learn and and do that. Yeah. Correct. So they would be be on, you know, do the MACC as a as a associate member and get the ability to

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do those. So, um, hairball time. Um, >> but yeah, I I I wanted to prep. >> We did it before, um, partly to sort of have like, you know, somebody in waiting if we needed it and give somebody an

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opportunity to be learning. Um, we there is a town, Charmont or something like that that does have a voting associate member on their conservation commission. >> Is it alternate member? and as associate member and it's two different things.

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>> No, but they got something through their state legislature. >> Yes, you have to get it through the state legislature to authorize it. Yep. It's it's not a um we decide they're going to be a voting member. We have to go to the legislature and ask for that. >> Right. But we did have then we did have an

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associate member non- voting associate member >> associate member not an alternate member >> and um that person didn't didn't last very long but >> kind of a big commitment to ask yeah >> of someone if they're not really a part of the decision making.

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>> Okay. So how do we proceed? I haven't done this before. >> Did you have a preference madam chair? >> I'm good with either. Um, [snorts] I mean I sort of slightly tilt towards

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Jacob because he has been around town for a few more years and he has been participating in some other things. But Andy certainly you can't fault somebody for moving into a town and then wanting to participate. So

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>> that's what I've always done. >> Yeah. Yeah. What is >> No. Do uh Okay. So, if we had to first vote, who would vote for Jacob? Raise your hand.

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And if we had to vote, who would vote for Andy? So, now what do we do? >> You have to pick one. >> You're on the hot seat. >> You're the chair. Yep. >> I'm the chair. Can I resign? And I think this is a vice

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chair. >> Designate to I've got to leave the room for a second. >> Um I feel like Jacob will be engaged whether we choose him or not. So I don't think we'd be losing him. And

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I'm not to say that Andy wouldn't, but >> Okay. Do you know any does that make sense? Like I think Jacob's gonna be on sustainability or be on something. >> Yeah, I think either of them would be, but yeah, >> you think? >> I said I think either of them would would probably be, but I I can't

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>> They both seem interested. >> Yeah, they both seem very interested in in doing anything. So, it doesn't mean >> Don't fault somebody because they just moved to town. It doesn't >> No, I don't. I know. Well, I mean, all of us on the commission are >> Yeah. >> moved to town. joined right after I

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moved. >> Yeah, we we got you. I was a few years later. >> So that I don't know if that's in Andy's favor or not, but [laughter] >> we she could not put me forward to be renewed and you could take them at all. But >> say no. Say no.

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>> Wait, same thing. Oh, cuz it's she hasn't been reappointed by the select board yet. So you can make the recommendation to not >> not reappoint and then you can have both of them. >> That's true. And you could be chairman slashquarter. >> You did excellent notes when I was gone.

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[laughter] >> I don't think you can be both. Not ready to >> officially. Heather shakes her head now. Okay. So, I'm feeling like with the commission's needs in terms of technical, there's a slight edge then to

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Andy. John, what do you think? >> I'm okay with it. >> Heather, you have a non vote, but what are your thoughts? >> Um, I I really don't have an opinion either way. Um,

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I mean, I will say this to Andy's point, um, for basically just moving to town in December, here it is, just the first week of June that he sent his letter in, um, to have to to see that and reach out and be like, "Yeah, that's what I want to do." I think whether it was this

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board or another one, you would see him um apply to be on something because he has that eagerness to be engaged in the town he lives in, which is a wonderful thing to have in a Massachusetts town when you you basically rely on your residents to volunteer and serve your

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town. So, I think that speaks to him for that. Um I to I mean Jacob was my first thought when I knew that um Mark was leaving because of his because of his experience with with pace. I thought it'd be a

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great learning experience for him to see the um reparatory side of everything, >> knowing his passion for what he does have to get that understanding, get the restraints of everything. Whether that's going to go in his favor or not, I don't

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know. on that side of thing because he did seem to he would you know what I mean that that that seemed to be a a trigger not a trigger but like a a concern that he possibly would have. So whether that would work um not in his favor I don't

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know. Um but I I do think both would be fine and both will serve on something whether it's on this committee or another one in town. Um I don't think that would picking one or the other would discourage the other one from picking something else. Good point.

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>> Um given I know there's at least I think three or four openings coming up um in other comm other other boards in town. >> What other boards? >> I think there's one an alternate for ZBA I believe. >> Yeah,

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>> there's um stability there. I I know there's others in town that are opening up. I don't know all of them, but I know there's a list of some that are opening up. Um if anyone wants to run for election, I know board of health constantly is um looking

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for the the people just stay on there because else pulls through. So um there are always opportunities to do so. Um the appointed an appointed commission or board is is the easiest one because you don't have to pull papers and and run an election. Um but there's always

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opportunities in a city or town to certain aspect of things. >> Were you going to say something? No. >> Let's vote again. >> Okay. >> Okay. Jacob Andy.

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Okay. So, let's make a motion. >> George motion to uh recommend the select board for handy >> McGregor. McGregor to the commission.

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>> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I opposed. Motion passes. Um, could we inquire if with with the town or or with Jacob

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interested in an associate non voting? Yeah, >> but that would then that's some educational opportunities. >> That's about it. >> Mhm. >> Truly. >> Yeah. Gives you the member price for MACC conferences. >> Mhm.

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>> Which is a good 50 something dollars I think. 75. Great disc. It's a discount. >> Yep. >> And we would still pay for that. >> Yes. And we pay for the membership. Yeah. And we pay for the classes too. Yes. >> Okay. So, uh, chair, I guess I'll send

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>> Oh, I will send it. >> You'll send >> to both. >> Oh, I will send I will send both of them an email tomorrow. But then they have a town site and if you want to if you want to do it yourself as the chair, you can too. You have both of their emails forward both to you. >> Um, but I will I will let them know and

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I will have to send the letter to the um the memo to the town manager's office so we can get a select board agenda for Tuesday. >> Okay. Now, do you need that signed by the chair? >> No, Robert, just send a quick memo so they can include in the packet. >> Okay.

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>> I have power. >> All right. Any other uh any other updates or any other issues before we adjourn for the evening? There being none, >> motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> All in favor? I >> I >> I

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>> Yeah, right there. >> Yeah.