Welcome to the Wednesday, May 28th, 2025, 6:15 p.m. remote participation meeting of the AIR Affordable Housing Trust. In accordance with chapter 2 of the acts of
2023 suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law OML, public bodies otherwise governed by the OML are temporarily leaved from the requirement that meetings be held in public places open and physically accessible to the public. So long as measures are taken to ensure
public access to the body's deliberations through adequate alternative means. The meeting of the AR affordable housing trust will be live on Zoom. The public may participate remotely by joining Zoom meeting ID 818509-7403 or by calling 9292056099. For additional information
about remote participation, excuse me, please contact Alicia at ahers.mma. us or 9787728220 extension 142 prior to the meeting. And so uh the meeting has been called to order. We do have a quorum and
I would ask for a motion to approve the agenda. So moved. Thank you, Cindy. Do we have a second? Thank you, Sean. Um, if we look at the uh agenda, we have a a repetitive
item. FY26 budget proposal exists on it twice. So, if it's okay with you all, we'll only handle that. We'll we'll take that topic on once. Is that okay with people? Okay, with that adjustment, I'm going to go and do uh whatchamacallit squares. Bob, how do
you vote? Bob has a thumbs up for I. Sean, how do you vote? I Cindy. Excuse me. Thank you. And the chair votes I. I've got a frog in my throat. Okay. Next on
the um agenda is do you approve the meeting minutes from 4:30 2025? Um may we have a motion, please? I'll make I can't move it, guys. Sean moves it. Yes. Thank you, Sean.
From 4:30. And do we have a second? I'll second it. So moved and seconded. Um, first of all, thank you very much Cindy for putting these together. I have one question. Yep. And um, so this is
discuss this discussed the minute was before. If you jump down, it's it's the seventh paragraph on the page. It begins with SC is looking for financial support from the town. I don't have it in front of me. Hold on.
Okay. So, so I can pull it up maybe. No, I fine. Go ahead. The wording in the second sentences sentences. They are also asking for a property tax agreement with the town that would lock in at the 2025 rate for a defined period of time
to be TBD to be determined. Um, they're actually asking, I believe, for the 2025 assessment, not the tax rate, but the value of the property. All right. Hold on. Where are you? It's the second to last full paragraph on the
page above where it says a German of AHC at 755. You're asking for Okay. Yep. 2025 assessment, not rate. Oh, okay. I could change that. Why didn't it tell me before is SC supposed
to be DC? No. Um, no. Oh, okay. Sorry. Shock it. Shocket. Yeah. No, shocket was asking for that. Yes. So that that's correct. Okay. And I I indicated that up ahead. Yes, exactly.
No, I be honest with you. I saw that the first time I read it and thank you for getting these out again. It just didn't occur to me to drop it into Word and send it off to you. I apologize. I had an interesting couple of weeks with other stuff going on. So assessment assessment has been a great Okay, I
could change that. No problem. Thank you. Otherwise, I have no other um recommendations for changes. I don't if anybody else does. All right. Well, just don't don't post that until I send you the update. Yeah,
that's and I've got to go sign it anyway before it gets posted. So, um and I'll probably get to that in the next day or two if um Alicia and I can find a moment to do it. So, with that change, um I uh take a vote on accepting the minutes. Uh
Bob, you're first up. How do you vote? I abstain because I wasn't at the meeting so I can Okay. Thank you, Sean. I Cindy I and chair votes eye. Thank you very
much. Um okay, Alicia, you want to do the budget proposal now or after the Arap and do it then? Excuse me. So, I sent just today, I don't know if everybody got it with the link to the um the the state of our
finances. Yeah, I'm going to pull it up for us. Okay. Give me a moment while you start talking. Yeah. And thank you for sending that today. And the proposal is basically we've already voted to spend
72,000 on the um project year it's it's project year 25 um which is the current year that we're in for the rental assistance. So, we got approved at town meeting. Yeah.
Our email is not going to go in. All right. We got We got approved for what? I'm sorry. We got at town meeting CPC funds for 200,000. A new 200,000, but that is not yet in the bank account because it won't go into the bank account until
July because that's a fiscal year approvement, right? Approval. So, but this is Alicia's way of putting together a bud. You know, it's not a budget, but just a statement of where we are financially. So, you see what has come
in so far to the account. And I'm just That is the 30,000 60,000 and 200,000 this year. Yes. And so 200,000 last year and another 200,000 pending. So, when
you put all of that together, you're at 491,250 that's come in. Y um our commitments that we've made and and some of it has been spent, some of it hasn't. So, you can see what our commitments are and what has been spent so far. So,
available after July 1st will be 2518 thou 818,000. Um we have made commitments. You see the 491 and we made commitments of 240. What we have in the bank account right now is
121 927 $121,927. [Music] Okay. So, we have available, but we haven't put anything aside for administration or to do an audit this
year. and I'm assuming an audit, a one-year audit is going to cost us four $4,000. Now, the question is whether when we're just getting CPC money and the CPC money is being audited every year by the town, we haven't done this,
we would need to change the bylaws to say that to to not do an audit. So, we do need to spend that $4,000 to do another audit. Mhm. Um, so I guess the budget I'm asking for
is maybe to put aside 5,000 for administration and to continue with our commitment of 72,000 for rental assistance. Mhm. Any questions? Yeah, let me open it up to the board.
So, I think we got two things going on right now, guys. We have money promised to us and money in the account and we need to set aside a uh a contingency amount for the audit this year. Now, the first audit was 6,000 which covered us
for the first couple of years, but excuse me. I believe in chatting with the auditor, $5,000 is a comfortable amount of money to put aside for that admin piece. Is that correct, Alicia? Yes. Okay. Any comments from anybody on
the trust before we open it up? Was that 5,000 or 4,000? I'm sorry. It It's four Well, he did not commit to what he would do it for. They did it as a favored. We They did three years, but he said 3,000
would not be what they would pay for a year. It would be three or four. He wasn't clear. So, I haven't gotten a estimate. So, you want us to set aside four? Well, I was just going to set aside five for any other outstanding. Okay, thank you. That's all I needed to
know. Just what did you say for administration? Just in general for administration. So, are you suggesting Alicia um that we change our bylaws to uh eliminate the need for uh audits or
not to eliminate the need for audits altogether. I think audits are very important. Yes. But but we have um minimal money going in and out of this account and the town and it's account an
account run by the town. So it gets audited by the town audit. Yeah. It gets it's also money only coming from CPC which gets audited by the town audit. So when when we're doing is dispersing CD
CBC CPC money and we're not getting any other funds in out to exterior you know funds not CPC the question is could the board make the choice to not do an audit that year and and and Bob let me add let
me add a a point here. It is ultimately um ultimately we believe we may get funding from other sources, grant funding and stuff like that and that may actually generate the need to have an audit done outside of what the town auditor currently does, what Barbara
does in her in her work as a treasurer. Um, and we don't own any assets yet. And those would be an important part of the audit because, you know, as you know, assets have value and that value changes and they have expenses and stuff like that. But in in the current mode we're
in, it's a fairly simple um, uh, financial report and we're trying to we're trying to get away. We're trying I mean, the town the money's audited. The money goes through audits coming to us from another town
entity. And then the town's books are reviewed by the Commonwealth. And so having somebody do it outside is required by our bylaw and that's why we did it. But we incurred a charge of 6,000 to get caught up. So I don't think we would change our bylaw to say all audits in
the future would be um internal. I think as we currently stand, it seems to be a belt and suspenders approach that may be costing, you know, a $6,000 charge. That's a family for a year in the rental
assistance program. Yeah. I So, so it's a discussion we have to have soon. Yeah. So, what you're suggesting is is we alloc we set aside five grand for administrative costs, but we might not spend that money. Is that what you're suggesting? No, we'll have to spend it
this year. We have not changed that bylaw. we might not have to spend it the year after once we if we choose to change the bylaw which gives you discretion over whether an audit has to happen or not. Yeah. And and if I may
Bob I think the question you're also asking is if the audit comes in at 3500 instead of five grand we've budgeted for it and the money the 1,500 is ours to use elsewhere. No we have to identify it. Huh. I I get that, but but uh it seems
to me that we don't have outside funding right now. We have we're being audited in every which way through the CPC, through the through the town. So, it seems like if anything, this is the time to s uh maybe uh modify the bylaw to
allow us to have the discretion to um you know, to audit or not. And that's exactly where we were going in the conversation last year, Bob, before we had you joining us on a regular basis. So, all right. And I think that's at this point we've seen
the money in front of us. So, ultimately what would happen is the bank balance would go down by five grand to 11792719 roughly. No, commitment and as a commitment and then $200,000 comes in in July. So that
goes from 117 927 to 317 927 in round figures. There's interest. There's interest. We're acrewing interest in some other stuff also, but it's not a lot of money. It's just re really what it comes down to is we write checks to
landlords and you know we some sometimes we don't have a full boat of people who need a check every month because people come come in and out of the program. So, but that's where we currently stand. Any other questions from people on the trust right now? Yeah. Yeah. Sean,
please. Um, since we brought up the possibility of changing a bylaw or whatever, do you think is there a way that we change it so it stipulates that the only way that an audit is triggered is if there is an outside funding source? Otherwise, as long as it's a
single source, the town, we can skip audits. Great. Yeah. Oh, it I'll be honest with you, I don't know the answer to that, but it is a conversation that um Alicia and Barbara Tierney and myself have kind
of had around the edges right now, Sean. But I think we would turn to Barbara and say, you know what, what would be the recommendation to the town treasurer because ultimately the books have to go through her hands or the treasur's hands before they go to the Commonwealth. All right. Can we have that on our next
meeting agenda? Yep. Y so you get it done sooner rather than later. Exactly. Yes. Okay. Thanks. I'm writing my down to-do. Yeah, me too. No, thank you. Sean Alicia, I have a a quick question that you could probably
answer. I never got I sent a message to Robert, never heard back from him. But the IDFA, which was has been dormant for years [Music] now, what about all that money? That's a big pot of money that's sitting there.
Is that is that what happened to that? Where is it going? This is a kind of side um discussion, but if everybody's okay, I'm going to answer this question. Go ahead. We have a new um economic development
director coming in 1 of July. She was approved at the last board of selectment. Sean can even speak to this um meeting. And um I think that they're going to be looking at the the the IDFA and the direction they wanted to
go. And Bob, I think you're still on the IDFA, correct? As far as I know, but we haven't met in years now. So, yes. and we're and and she's actually very excited about the possibilities of what could happen, but there's also been
internal discussions um within the town about what should be happening with that. So, I you know, I'll mention to Robert that you were asking and if you want to reach out again, I I I want I would highly encourage you to do that. And I guess what I'm saying is it felt
it feels to me like that is I know this is we're going down the wrong direction here, but it feels like that uh there was less interest in in the funds that the IDFA and programs the IDFA offered and it seems like that money could be
well spent in things like affordable housing. Well, and there's a possibility of redirecting some of it. But also something to recognize is um when interest rates are high out there, it's a good time for businesses that need a
little bit better rate on their loan. We there wasn't that many loans made in the last five, seven years because the interest rates were better than what the IDFA was offering sometimes. All right. I don't want to Yeah, taking it down a
rabbit hole. Sorry. Yeah, that's okay. I'm going to ask a quick question. IDFA stands for Industrial Development Financing Authority. Thank you. And it has a pot of about a million bucks or more. So, yeah. No, I
appreciate that, Bob. It's just we've been warned not to talk in acronyms if we can avoid it because um it we we can drop drop into acronyms real quick and no one knows what we're talking about who comes in and says it. So, if there's excuse me, no other comments from folks
on the board. Pauline has had her hand up and I'd like to ask Pauline what's on your mind. Thank you, Jeff. I appreciate it. I would encourage the affordable housing committee to set up an administration budget.
Can you hear me? Yeah, the trust. Trust. Yes. I'm sorry. The trust. um because there are uh costs associated with the um audit which I know I'm responsible for raising the issue last year and I
apologize for that but the statute requires that the towns do a budget um I'm sorry an audit of their budget every year. You can't change that. You cannot limit a statute. You can expand it. So,
I would suggest just adding enough to your budget so that you can complete the but the audit without having to ask for more funds cuz we all know the town's people aren't going to understand a whole lot of this and and I apologize
for making this an issue, but please just do what you need to do to keep the housing trust the way it is because I think it's working. Although we'll see what happens in the next topic on the agenda. So I just share that. All right,
that's all I wanted to say. Yeah, thank you Pauline. And there's there's a concern here and I I'm not very I'm not I'm I don't know that not I don't know if any of us know the enough about it to uh put it to bed this evening. But there is a question about CPC funding being
spent on administrative um tasks. And we do know that it can be done, but that when we got into this conversation, finding the auditor, getting the audit done, figuring out the the paying for it, um, we kind of have
an open conversation. We have to tie up all the string, all the all we have to tie it all up. But we did need to get it done. We did get permission to use the funds that we had given to us from CPC. And I think that's what Alicia was asking for is to add the admin line because it's currently not in our
budget. Totally. Exactly. Totally agree with what you're planning and I if if you need any additional information, I have buckets full of paperwork. Yeah. Thank aside, I'm just retired, Pauline.
I have gotten rid of cases of paperwork. I'm so happy about it. So, anyway, thank you. Um, congratulations. I still had a piece of paper. Yeah. So the um I think the choo that comes out of this Alicia is for us to have a follow-up quick
conversation with Barbara Tierney and Bob the sentiment is there. If we can find a way to make it, you know, if if we can find a way um without breaking laws or statutes, I think we need to do it. Uh we'd be nice
if we could do that. So, okay. Can I have a quick question? I've got a quick question. Can we just put this to bed by voting to add the administration line this year to the budget because we already voted on the 72 I I will I will move to add an admin
amount of $5,000 to our budget. Second. Sean will second it. Any discussion on that hearing? None. Bob, how do you vote? Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Sorry, Cindy. Yeah. Say it so I can move
move to create an admin category for $5,000 in her budget. An admin category and fund it with 5,000 for our FY26 budget. Yes. Wait a minute. Say it
again. Move to create to create an admin category. Yep. And fund it with $5,000. And if it's okay with you, I would call it for the upcoming fiscal year. Yes. And then it would just go
forward. Yes. Sean, is that um acceptable to you? That is for a second. Okay, great. Create an admin category. Yep. And fund it with $5,000. With $5,000
for the next year comes from. Yep. Okay. You you might want to not use admin and call administrative. Just saying. Yes. Thank you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's just me talking. Yep. Administrative.
Yep. Is that still friendly, Sean? Still friendly. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. I just needed the I need the words. I'm glad we had the discussion. I'm dropping into get it done too fast mode. Cindy, stop me anytime. Um, thank you. Uh, if
there's no further discussion, Bob, how do you vote? Yay. Thank you, Sean. Yay. Thank you, Cindy. Yay. Thank you. And the chair votes I. Fantastic. Uh, moving along to the
air rental assistance program update for 25. I'm going to unshare that screen so I can see everybody. There we go. What do you got other for us, Alicia? Oh. Um, so we have 12 people who've been
approved um and are receiving rental assistance at this point. We had one that was in um two people that were in limbo. Um but we have 12 accept getting rental assistance at this point and it's
moving forward. We have one that has been a little bit of a difficulty and cannot move forward and that is because the unit did not qualify and there was there was upsetness about the unit
not qualifying. But we do require an an inspection by our building inspector because the town does not want to be part of an unsafe unit. Yeah.
And so, and that's where it is and that's where we voted from the very beginning of our guidelines. I think that maybe I need to make next year's guidelines a little bit clearer. There was a question with our building inspector, but he is the safety
inspector. And so, it was building and fire inspection I have on all units and they have to pass. And the interesting thing is most landlords, only twice have I had landlords refuse to make the changes because they weren't required
because of grandfathered situations to make the changes. Um, but most of the time the landlords are happy to make the changes because they know that their insurance, their liability is much better off if they keep do the safety
regulations of the town. Absolutely, Alicia. That actually um so that brings up something interesting though. Um these were two units that were legally allowed to by being grandfathered they were legally allowed to remain unsafe in
some aspect. Yes. That kind of brings up like is that being unfair of us because the law is allowing them to be rented as is. Well, this is maybe something that needs to go to council because because if
they're unsafe and there's a fire and there's a death, is this town liable knowing it was unsafe? Yeah, I'd be interested to see what town council would say about like if we're unfairly like eliminating people from our pool of
candidates when their unit is still grandfathered in is legal. What I want to say though is mo most of landlords and landlords come right out and they and I've had landlords have to go in and do big changes and little
changes and most of them come right out and say, "No, we want this to be safe. We want, you know, so they go they're actually thankful for finding out about things." They they're not it's it's in four years I've only had two units not
pass. Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. Um I'm happy to have an offline conversation with you, Sean, but I manage rental units. Um and uh lead was the issue for small children
and it's a town where a lot of people would have children and once you explain to the owner of the property that if they abaded the lead, you know, they literally won't be in an argument about their
um that that would be so negatively impactful on them from a financial standpoint. they understand what it is and they want to do it or they add a second entrance or they do a fire or something. It's Yeah, it's an interesting thing. And one of the things that has happened with this program is
Alicia just said is landlords like the fact that they're getting money. It's not everything, but they're getting a steady stream of cash from the money from the rental from the town and they're willing to do what's needed to do to upgrade their unit. Yeah. And both
of these units were not led. They were egress. Yeah. Egress issues. Yeah. So, um yeah, it's an it's an interesting conundrum, isn't it, Sean? Yeah, there is. But but you know, it's and and the egress issue is
in many times it's making sure our guys are safe going in and going out should there be an emergency in the building. You want the resident to be safe, but you also want your e your emergency personnel to be safe, too. So, it's a
interesting conundrum. But, um Okay. Um anything else on the update, Alicia? No, that's pretty much it. It's going smoothly and and there's always a little bit of getting everything pulled together because there's a lot of
paperwork, but but it's going very smoothly. I haven't said it yet. This meeting, Alicia, thank you for all the paperwork you do and all the people you spend time with. I really do appre I it's it's amazing an amazing amount of effort and
time. Um this brings us to the next item on our agenda is and I don't know if anyone from the public has any comments about the or questions about the rental assistance program. I don't see any hands. So I'm going to move on to the Devon Express tenant association
request. And um by way of introduction, I've thought a lot about this, but I don't know where to start the conversation. So, I kind of want to put it out to the trust and say, "How do you want to have this conversation?" And one of the things I asked Alicia to
look into, and you guys tell me if you want her to take the moment, a moment or two to do this, is um when you start peel peeling back the onion and trying to understand what the request was, it breaks down to 114 total
units of which 35 have not been um renovated. The other ones have. And those 35 units that haven't been renovated would be are supposed are presupposed to be affordable units after they're
renovated. And the question I had was how are they market rate units with vouchers or are they going to be below market? How is that going to work? So I asked Alicia to do a quick presentation on how vouchers work.
Would that be helpful for people? If not, we'll we'll jump past it and it can come up as we talk. I don't I don't know what Let's Let's put it in our pocket and it comes up. Give us a little more detail because
mine's just three sentences. Okay, go. Let me go forward with it. Go. There's two types of vouchers. There's state vouchers and there's federal vouchers. Probably many of the state vouchers come from federal money. So,
this is always a question about how much money is going to be there in the future. HUD has their section 8. Everybody's probably familiar with section 8. Um, which all tenants who get section 8 pay 30% of their income
towards their rental unit. So, that's how it works. And a section 8 is usually now this I don't know. I think a section 8 is at 60% AMI. Nothing above 60% AMI. So it's not
into the moderate income. I'm sorry. What what percent? 60. Yes. And what the the program I don't know much about is the states vouchers which are Massachusetts rental voucher
and it's the MRVP program. And I don't know much about them. Um, and I don't know where their funding source comes, but I do know that they also are at 60% AMI and
that it's 30% of the tenants income goes towards their portion of the the rental price of of the of the rental price. So, I'm going to take a shot at making this in um in numbers.
It doesn't make the unit cost less on a monthly basis. The resident of the unit, if they qualify, pay 30% of their income towards the towards the rate to rent the unit
and the voucher picks up the difference. Is that another way of saying it? That's clear, Alicia. Is that Did I get it right? I believe so. Go ahead, Sean. Yeah. Yeah. and and I I I've had employees who were had
vouchers. So that brings the question forward. Does a unit that is a market rate unit that has a voucher eligible person living in it, what happens if the voucher program changes?
So you have a deed restriction on the property and if if if the town so if the town were to give money towards this property we would require a deed restriction. So there's those 35
units would have a deed restriction and could not be I I don't know how that happens because if they can't sell it without a voucher that that's a good question. I don't know how that works. Yeah. And and
I'm not I'm not trying to throw um sand in the cogs here, but if you start thinking about the units, um you know, I I do want more affordable housing units, but I I kind of and maybe I'm going too far into the weeds, but I
want to understand that the offer we're getting for affordable units will help us will will help the town because the units remain affordable going into the future and it it's you know if you all
think about Noah right now on the other project the air commons project and I don't want to I'm not going to do apples and oranges here just the other project we're aware of one of the things they're working for is to get the tax credits they need and the vouchers
they need to build those units and make them affordable well I think that that um sock Shocket is also looking at tax credits, too. Exactly. So, so I think that that's and and I think that we would have the
same type of um we would have the same type of restrictions on Noah as we would on Devon's crest. Yeah, I was going to use heir's comments in Devon's quest, but exactly. Yeah. Um, so that to me that's
a question and that is do they and I know Alicia had said deed restricted it just it's a question I have don't know enough about the process or the program but I think we're being asked to consider
something and I don't know if it's forever or not for in perpetuity or not and so that was a question I asked Alicia about the other day is just to understand the um vouch system. Sean, have you got anything you want to add to this? Excuse me, guys.
I walked away from the meeting with, I think, a lot more questions than answers. um specifically and I'm welcome to anybody challenge this notion or this feeling but out of 114 units um the bulk of them are going to be
market rate at what they are now and that's what they'll continue out with a modest increase every year in rent so that's what $2,400 a month that's not affordable no matter what that's like that I was expecting something more
along the lines of 1,800, which was the average, or a little less. But then that's a very big assumption that those 35 units, those folks are going to qualify for a voucher program or not only qualify, but that they're going to
get it. Those those voucher programs are years long waiting list. Mhm. I don't see how 35 families are going to skip over people that have been on a waiting list forever just to be able to stay in their apartments and make them
affordable. So, without a guarantee from the company that there's a subsidy that's not coming from just the town, but that there's a subsidy in case those people don't get a voucher. How does that how do they maintain that as an
affordable unit? Um, and then the idea of I'm skeptical that the that the state is willing to give funds for people to continue to live in un or housing that's not up to code
while they wait for people to move out of other housing so they can move over there while their buildings are being renovated. I it just there was a lot of questions that just didn't seem to be answered and it was a little disheartening as well to find out that the company that
they're partnering with is a for-profit company. So I think that maybe may I make a suggestion here? I think that a lot of people had questions and I think the best way to go forward is to to pull our
questions or to get together and put our questions on paper. One of the things I had uh an email from Carly and Robert because someone from Shocket was talking about all if they do a 40B if 25% of
rentals are affordable all of them get to count towards our SHI. So they were asking us about the SHI. Um Janet of the CPC and um was Janet Bravodakis and I were talking and we
were in agreement that the CPC already has an application for funding from the Devon Crest Association. Um, and we could need to also put together a set of
requirements. We don't usually pay out any money, CPC money or trust money without papers being transferred, um, recorded deed restrictions, recorded marketing plans, and approval
from HLC. HLC. Yeah, that's HLC. Yeah. Yeah. That's the that's the that's used to be department of housing and community development and it's now um housing of livable communities. So those are all
the requirements that we would make before we have funded any of this. And in that we would have a deed restriction for maybe 99 years. We would have a requirement of how they're going to market those units each time they come
available. And one of the things that I did not say is you can have vouchers that are tied to projects and then you can have vouchers that um are part of the waiting list, the grand waiting list of the state and the federal government.
And I'm not sure and Sean maybe you know better how do project vouchers work? No, actually I didn't know that they're like I'm not that familiar with projectbased vouchers. I I was operating out of the assumption that it was all one pool of
people. So that's pretty interesting. Well, I do think the project based because that's what um that's what the Air Commons project is talking about. They're talking about getting 16 projectbased vouchers. And 16 is a lot of projectbased vouchers. So 35 is even
a lot more. Yeah. And I think they're talking about state ones, not federal ones. Um yeah. And if if I may, I think where projectbased vouchers came from, Scott, I mean Sean, is that
um in order to incent people to build housing, they go with the property, not with the residents. And I have to look into that and figure it out. But I think that's what the quote unquote project base are.
because typically a resident applies into a section 8 unit, qualifies financially, and and just so you all know, the other question is the 35 units that are um currently below market, will
the people living there requalify to live there? Well, that's what I'm talking about with a marketing plan. A marketing plan will actually if my guess is a project B and this is a guess. This is not but my my best
estimate of this would be that a project based voucher I know that you always have to have a marketing plan for a project like this. So how you market that rental when it comes available and who is eligible
it might not go to an actual list. It might not go to the list. they might be able to do some of it internally. I'm not sure, Sean, but it's a good question. Yeah. Um, actually, just knowing that the idea of project based and, you know, that kind of alleviates
some of my concern and the fact that yes, 35 is is a substantial amount of affordable housing even if the rest of the units aren't quite as affordable. Yeah. Um and and I will also let you all
know that um Devon's crest associ association isn't at this meeting and neither is Connie Sullivan or any other representative for them but they have asked to join our next meeting. So, I think it's us getting together our
questions is probably uh sorry I didn't start the conversation with this but um that's the other thing is we we we may be in a situation where we get our questions answered and as Alicia said we need to put our questions together.
So June uh 25th would be the next time we actually see the DCTA to and get these questions answered. And I don't know if Sean if they can if if they're going to be able to provide the the level of confidence. I I just I see it as a lot
of moving parts and I don't know how to see our way through. I I that may surprise some people but I don't know. Um any other question? Go ahead. May Yeah, of course. So, one of
the things that we can do is set our terms and our our requirements and and I think we should be looking at the 35 units that we consider truly affordable, require that there be 60% AMI, require that the
tenant um Chris, did you want to say something? Go ahead, Chris. You're muted, Chris. Can you unmute him, Jeff? I don't know. No, there he is. Sorry about that. Hey,
no worries. Challenge. It slid to the left. Um the option to unmute myself. Um, so it I just um I mean speaking openly and freely here, I um I am a landlord of a
couple extremely modest properties in Shirley. Um, just looking at this from like a a landlord opportunity perspective, you could practically feel and see the opportunity the the people that were presenting the deal in the
last meeting salivating over the opportunity to be able to do this. Really makes me wonder why, but not so much if you think about it from from their perspective and what it is that they may be able to benefit. if they can double their rents with half of
that money guaranteed from the state and then also put an opportunity to improve their properties. So adding uh even more value to you know properties that maybe need improvements and then have the town
fund the deposit necessary to finance those improvements. what through through a uh you know like they said what donate or give them $5,000 per unit in order to be able to transfer these to affordable
housing. the I mean that's it's like money on top of money on top of them being able to improve the property, charge more, and then they only want to stay in the deal for 10 years or something like that
before then they get paid out, which also means that they want to be able to finance this and they're looking for a huge payout at that time, too. uh if something's really working out, why would you bother refinance it like that?
I don't know. It just it doesn't sound right for a lot of different reasons. Um but then again, I also uh am speaking from a place of um naivveness in how the entire affordable
housing program runs uh in general. So, I do want to caveat that statement. I'm not I don't know everything, but at face value, that's what it felt like. And I would sorry be willing to write down a few of those thoughts if that would help to you
know yeah and and Chris I I know you're not currently a member of the trust um still working on that for us but as a member of the community of a this is money that you're 3% of your tax bill brother is going into this pro you know we're all putting money in at the rate of 3% on
our tax bills every every year so you gota you you had a voice as loud as anybody else honestly. So it would be very helpful if you want to put this into um and bring it up at the next meeting cuz I mean I was I'll articulate a little bit
better. I was just shooting from the hip. No, that's better than I could do but I really do appreciate I mean I don't know about the rest of the trust but I'll tell you I appreciate it because we're all going to come with our background and perspective on this. We all want I mean we're here because we want affordable housing. We But we want
affordable housing that is a going to be good is that's going to be there now and into the future. Yeah. Alicia, you going to put you put your hand up? Yes. I I wanted to tell you what the value is. So, even if we just talk about the 35 units that we know will be affordable
and will be deed restricted and will have vouchers, 35 vouchers in the town is wildly value valuable. Okay. And there's two different types of value. Vouchers within the town really
help your residents. So, a $5,000 commitment to each of those vouchers is is a very good deal. Okay. Those vouchers will really house a lot of families who are workingass families and and
just need some help paying their rent. And I I work with Excuse me, Alicia. I just you just you just dropped out for a moment there. You said working-class families and I didn't hear you that really need help paying their rent. Now, the other value to the town is when our
SHI list and when our I'm using acronyms, okay, subsidized housing inventory is at 10%. We're eligible for more grants. So, we also open up grant
opportunities for the town. So on those two things, if you look at this as the 35 really affordable units and those 35 vouchers, those have value. What the deal is and who the players are. That's why I was suggesting that we
talk about what our parameters would be for us to be partners. What do we require? We require deed restrictions. We require a marketing plan. We require, you know, that that it's been approved by, you know, mass housing, livable communities,
housing department, all those kinds of things which get it on the SHI list. Um, those are the things that we would require. And my guess is that we're talking about the 35 units that really will be affordable. Yeah. And and then
if you take a look at it, then their ask is half a million dollars, which is 114 roughly times 5,000. If we take the 35 units at a $5,000 ask, it's $175,000. So it's it's a it's a portion of the half a million that they're
asking for. But I just that's just the number side of it. I don't want that to Chris, like you, I'm shooting from the hip and I'm trying to figure it all out, you know, at the end of the day from like a a town perspective, but it's far more
valuable for them if they can double the rents um you know, receiving 175 double the rents on the um affordable units. That'll be a set rent by the state. So they're renting for what about 1,300
now? No, they'll probably rent for they'll they'll be going for what the going number is in the town now. And they do have other um that's a formula that I can't give you right now.
It's it's a pretty complex formula. They were looking at the rents being higher because we're part of Cambridge District. We're in Middle Sex County. Yeah, sex county. Yeah, six south. But they also take in the factor of how far
out we are. What are the other market rate in town? And that's what Ron brought up at at the meeting. That market rate in the town is for a twobedroom is between 16 and $18,000. $1,800.
So, $2,400 is a little bit high, which puts but it also probably begs the uh I don't know what the current 35 units are going for. I was under the impression it was closer to 13,000 in the $13,000 range under $1,300 range per
month. They're actually right now they're running at 900 still for they so they're at 900 a month. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, so that would be almost a doubling double it. Um, yeah, they would be able to double it from what they currently are. Yeah, exactly.
I mean, I do Oops. Sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. Um, I do think what Alicia is saying though with being able to put on strict parameters um it it makes it a little bit easier.
Um, but yeah, I think them coming back to our next meeting will be good. Yeah. And one of the things I I got thinking about, Sean, is, and don't get me wrong, do we have the skill set sitting at this table right now to be able to put this together?
No. Do we need to make another budget category called legal? But go ahead, Sean. No, no. I was just gonna agree with Cindy. Yeah. I mean, I know when I'm over my head, guys. Just like, you
know, replace me. Replace me because this is completely above my pay grade. So, so we just did this with the Habitat house and we've done it multiple times. What happens is when we do these
restrictions, I we work with with the state, we work with the town and we work with the town legal department to review all our restrictions. And what I will come with next time is basically the
restrictions are when will you transfer the money? You've got to decide that. And we never transfer the money until the deed the deed restrictions are in place. the um vouchers are in place and the
marketing plan is in place and record it. Record it and then we we transfer the money. So, yeah. And I'm going to I'm going to ask two questions, make one statement, make
one statement and ask one question now just to kind of keep everybody's heads exploding. Um the statement is there has been a request from the de Devon Crust Trans Association to CBC for $500,000. So they've already gone forward and put in an application to
request the money that they've asked for for the 114 units. I'm assuming have not seen the request. I saw Janet on the way into a meeting last night. She said, "I got a request today or yesterday for the 500,000." So that that that that that that that that
horse has left the barn to a certain extent. But the other side of the coin is as we look at this um when you did habitat and stuff like that, what jumps to my mind is is this something that can be grant funded through MRPC and does MRPC have the skill set to do this?
No, we go with our own council on this. Okay. Because this is a this is a legal document between the town and okay and whether the here's the question whether we need a little more administration whether Robert's got enough money in
legal to cover this but they did for Habitat they do. It depends on how many deed restrictions we're deal doing. They'll be all duplicate because the some of them are separate properties. Um I'm just I'm curious now. So if they
went on their own to CBC Yeah. is that just removing us from the equation or is CPC going to come back to us and ask us for it's um it's it's an interesting how how
are your football analogies and run and run is what I thought of when I found that out. I don't know. Or being boxed in would be the other one. I wouldn't say it that way because to tell you the truth, CPC
gets voted on by the town. Yes. The um the grant the trust money is your guys vote. Exactly. And Pauline, if you'll wait a moment, um as you all saw in the budget, I'm
going to say it out loud. If we decided to say we love the 35 units at $5,000 a piece, guys, we could do it. We have the cash. Whether we did it or not and got through the details would be something totally different. But I think Sean,
it's an interesting it's an interesting question, isn't it? It's almost like, thank you very much for listening to us talk. And by the way, we're going to go off and do something else. I'll be honest, my ego is not in the game, Sean. I'm not going to get I'm not going to get angry about that because again it's
such an unknown to me to a certain extent. But they also have to get it done. They they they're on the same um schedule and waiting for us to have three meetings puts them in July which really jams them up because they've got
to get their hearing done in August. Well, so does CPC then do the same thing? Would they come to you and ask for assistance in creating these parameters? Absolutely. Yes. I believe
that will happen either way. We've already talking about it. We'll have a seat at that table, I believe, to answer your question. Sean, um Pauline, if you don't mind, Cindy's put her hand up and she's a member of the trust. Cindy, can I ask you to jump in?
Yeah. I just wanted to say that Pauline had her hand up. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I I actually I actually asked her a moment ago. I thought Okay. Thanks, Cindy. Hey, Paul. Excuse me. Pauline, thank you. The floor. No
worries. I appreciate your patience. Um, small comments. I do believe you all need to at least meet with CPC about the proposal for 50 or what, half a million dollars for the
Devon Crest Tenants Association. And I am by no means suggesting we should not do that. But I think there are a lot of parameters involved. Um but I also want to remind everybody on the this
committee the town has gone on record it will not fund um I don't know what the words are so I just want to share this as benignely as possible. they will not fund saving
these houses and and I have a mixed emotion about that because of my involvement with habitats but please go back and talk with Robert comprehend because he was very very vocal when um
Devon's Crest was sold a couple years ago and so I'm I just want to make sure we do what is best for everybody in the town not just the residents of Devon Crest But the taxpayers as well that's all.
Thank you. Thank you very much Pauline. I think that is a uh I think that that's good point very sanguin point because um if we do remember back when Devons and you know in in
broadstrokes if the town took over Devon's crest everyone had to move out because it was substandard housing and that just became if you think about that a take it by imminent domain which requires the town to do it but b even if it actually happened, we would disenfranchise every
person living there right away. We'd unhome them because of the way the laws are written and that what have to happen. And Shakar's I'm trying I think Shakar's offering us a path to getting to affordable. Um before we close this out, any other comments people might
have and I would make a request that Sorry, it's shocket. Shock it. I'm sorry. Um, it's been a long week. I'm sorry, Cindy. Last night's meeting went very late, too. Oh, I know. Yeah. Um, so,
uh, anything else that's pressing on people to bring up at this point? And I would ask that our next meeting is June 25th and DCTA is going to be there. So, let's uh come prepared to ask the
questions we've got and figure it out. And the last thing I will um I'll share with you all is I didn't I didn't I didn't realize I was doing this um about a week ago in the in the in the in the
presentation they asked for um locking in the assessed values at 2025 limits. So, I wanted to figure out what that meant from a tax standpoint. If we're going to give 10 years of um property tax
growth, that's a soft cost, but it's a real cost to the town. And so, I made a I sent the town a request. I didn't realize it was a request for information request. And um there's some we can't enter into an
agreement with somebody about taxation. That's solely on the select board's shoulders. So that's not on that's not ours to um we can impact it by saying we want it or don't want it, but we can't make it happen. Number one. And number
two is um we don't know what the what 114 units what does that mean if we lock their value at this year's assessment and even if you grew it to 2 and a half% per year for 10 years or whatever the time period was going to be
loss tax revenue to the town and I think that's an important piece of the puzzle because uh you know we we are a well-run town but let's not give up I mean I don't I don't even know as percentage what the what the portion of money would
be but that's a cost it's a real cost so that that yeah go ahead Alicia so just to outline again um a deed restricted unit usually has a lower assessment because it has a lower value the deed
creates a lower value on that property so for the 35 units that are deed restricted there is room to consider that that It's a lower value. People who buy an a affordable condo get a lower
assessment because they have a lower value in their in the real estate. And but once again, we need to talk about the 35 units, not the 114. Exactly. and and and the
however if I'm if I'm not mistaken and believe it or not I'm old enough to remember the two and a half fight a long long time ago and I was involved in a warrant committee at the time looking at taxation even a deed restricted unit is a lower market assessment but that
assessment does move forward every year and it never goes at 2 and a half and I can explain it at nauseium what we're losing is that incremental increase in taxable value every year for 114 units
for the period of time that they're asking for the taxes to be locked in. I'm going to guess that becomes a fairly sizable chunk of change. If it's $1,000 in the first year, it's
$114,000 lost to the town in revenue. It's a couple of firemen, it's a couple of cops, it's a couple of cars, it's a couple of things, but that's what I'm talking about. We can't enter into that and I don't know if we'll ever get a a satisfactory answer about that.
Um, cool. Uh, any other comments on this item before we jump to the next piece? I'm going to say we're going to close the tri the discussion demonstrate tenants association request at this point. Um we have two more things on the
agenda for this evening before public comment. One is the trust reorganization and members up for reappointment. Uh Alicia, were you able to get the um years? Okay. But I will send I'll send
an email. I was just looking at that and saying so I will send an email just in for your information email about who is up for reappointment exactly and as you know um some of you are at large members Sean is a member
representing this board of selectman the board of select people I'm a current member representing the planning board um Cindy are you CPC no that's Colleen Kasier she's CPC I am not I am a
at large. Yeah, you're an at large. So, what um Alicia and I were trying to figure out is who's got what and what boards have to reappoint us. So, um we'll get those and what and what years people need to be reappointed at. Um and
so it's not on the website of all crazy things. We couldn't find it easily. So, we have to ask that question. Um, so hopefully somebody will uh happily step forward since uh for chair next time around, but we'll still we'll we need to
get figured out who who needs what reappointment so we can keep the trust moving forward. And secondly, goals. Um, do we want to add any goals to what we've done in the past in what we've been doing and where we're
going? Um, DCTA is going to take a bunch of our attention right now and I'm not sure there are any goals that we we are at a point yet where we can jump in and do. I mean, it's uh we're building the bank in
order to hopefully purchase or create more affordable housing, but I'm kind of wondering if we're ever going to catch up given what's going on with housing pricing here in town these days. But that's me. Somebody else say
something positive. If you have it, please. Um, so if you have any input on goals, please bring it to the next meeting and we'll um start putting that together. Lastly, any open public comment? Anybody else interested in uh
having anything join? Okay, seeing none, I'm going to ask for uh uh our upcoming meetings are June 25th and July 30th. Uh last Wednesdays of the month, excuse me. We're already on the
calendar and we'll get um agendas in soon. So, we have those dates locked in. With that being said, uh motion to adjurnn. So moved. Thank you, Sean. Do we have a second? Second. Thank you,
Bob. We we're holding back. Have a wonderful Have a wonderful time all. Uh meeting is adjourned at 7. Oh, all in favor of adjournment, please say I. I. Thank you.