WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=4iy7uPz94mM

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: 4iy7uPz94mM):
- 00:00:00: Senior Center Building Committee Meeting Call to Order
- 00:01:09: Agenda Amendment: Environmental Permitting and Utilities Update
- 00:02:23: Environmental Permitting Update: MEPA and Bishop Road Project
- 00:07:23: Discussion: Moving Devens Gate and Signage Considerations
- 00:09:16: Mass Development Endorsement Letter: Project Support and Benefits
- 00:14:58: Timeline for MEPA Approval Process and Public Outreach
- 00:16:35: Detailed Schedule Update: MEEPA, MISA, and CMP Timelines
- 00:22:12: Bidding Process Alignment with Permitting and Construction Schedule
- 00:27:56: Considerations for Winter Conditions and Cost Estimator Schedules
- 00:31:12: Goddard Communication and Potential MEEPA Process Improvements
- 00:34:58: MEPA Public Meeting and Coordination With Other Permits
- 00:37:58: Reviewing Schedule Dates and Planning Board Timeline Update
- 00:39:42: Budget Review: VE, Contingency, and Town Meeting Approvals
- 00:44:49: Value Engineering (VE) List: Savings Opportunities Discussion
- 00:59:19: Comcast Bandwidth Upgrade and Utility Budget Discussion
- 01:02:08: Budget Goal Clarity and Potential Bid Flexibility Strategies
- 01:10:11: Alternate Selection Process and Limited Alternate List Strategies
- 01:15:56: Drawing Review Timeline Considerations and Prioritized Actions
- 01:20:50: Parking Lot and Kitchen Discussion Begins
- 01:22:28: Granite Curbing and Landscaping Discussion
- 01:29:34: Parking Lot Waiver Discussion
- 01:37:55: Further Discussion of Safety Aspects
- 01:43:39: Building Electrification and Kitchen Discussion
- 02:07:05: Consideration of Existing Inventory and Equipment
- 02:13:08: Motion and Discussion, Electrification
- 02:14:19: Next Public Input and Expenses
- 02:33:10: Meeting Adjournment


Part: 1

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All right. Today is Thursday, April 16th, 2026, and this is a meeting of the senior center building committee. This meeting will be held in person at the location provided on this notice. Members of the public are welcome to attend this in-person meeting. Please note that while an option for remote

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attendance and/or participation we assume is being provided as a courtesy to the public, the meeting or hearing will not be suspended or terminated if technological problems interrupt the virtual broadcast unless otherwise required by law. Members of the public with a particular interest in a specific

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item on this agenda should make plans for in-person versus virtual attendance accordingly. This meeting will be live on Zoom. The public may access the proceedings by joining Zoom meeting ID 375-4146055 or by calling 9292056099.

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For additional information about remote participation, please contact Carly Antelis, assistant town manager at atmair.mma. us >> or 978-7728220 extension 100 prior to the meeting.

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All right. I call us to order at 4:33 p.m. Hello, Dennis. >> All right. Um, I would like to propose one amendment to the agenda. At the time I published it,

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I did not um realize I had updates from Dan on the environmental permitting. So, I would just like to put in probably in place of the approval of the minutes um an environmental and permitting update.

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Any others to the agenda? >> All right. Then, can I get a motion to approve the agenda as revised? >> Motion to approve the agenda as advis revised. Second. Uh, everybody on the committee is here. So, all in favor?

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>> All right. The chair says I follow. >> No, Dan. >> Dan Van Shakwick is on vacation. That's Dan. So, when we are all together, we can do a voice vote. But when we are separate and I have to do a roll call voice today. So, all committee members

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are here present. Okay. So, um, let's start with, um, Dan is on Dan Venshapwick is on vacation this week. So, he wrote up an update on the environmental permitting and the utilities. Um, Ken, did you want to

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cover that or do you need to? >> Yeah, I can I can try to do it, I guess. Um, I meant I brought a Did he send the email to the he sent the email to the >> the working group? >> The working group. Okay. So Dan put together an email with a couple of updates on where we stand. So I'll I'll

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try to go through that then we can just we'll put in the record or whatever. >> So he starts with the mass environmental policy act mea and you guys have this right. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So the overall plan set has been drafted by DPW and commer GD is

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reviewing. So it appears that uh DPW is helping us here by doing some engineering that can be required by the MER approval. And then the next sentence says God is finalizing language conversion which we think we know that is they have to have documents go out in

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>> many languages as they notify the communities. Mhm. >> Continuing with me application and it says anticipating to kick off a MEPA process this week which is the first step in the environmental justice outreach. So they're working on these

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documents that have to go to all the bordering towns and whatnot and people that are interested in the project. Then we'll have a an actual meeting that'll be held somewhere. They'll set it up. So do we know so who is

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who is creating this MEPA presentation or the God it is >> our consultant yes >> and and when is that due to us so when will they be >> well that's basically just say anticipate to kick off it process this week it's the first step that's all he says so I don't know the exact date

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>> so >> he doesn't give us that year >> no okay so this is the week of the 15th let's say 14th >> right so That's kind of where we are on MEPA. We know there's just a lot of paperwork that has to be done and that's the summary that it gave us. Now the other

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application that's on that one is that the checklist being submitted. Now the checklist and the way he defines it is the application. So the long application things have to be checked if you're complying with it. That's when it's saying is being

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submitted. And this is good news. The Bishop Road in the Comcast project has been deemed exempt. So he was working on that waiting for decision. So that is an exempt from this MISA process which

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means they can do that work and go ahead and get it done. >> Wer and what else? >> The contest which is coincident with the water. >> Okay. >> Same contractor >> information. Um I'll get the next next thing is the summary. So the next piece he's got is actually the Bishop Road

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Water Comcast project where he summarizes that. So we had the the way he writes it is we had a pre-construction meeting last week. That's meaning DPW that's not we the the anybody on this board. We had a pre-construction meeting last week with the contractor, the police, the fire,

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Comcast and the conservation commission. Devons is coordinated with meaning Devons is on board, understands the projects going forward and they're they're okay with that. August contractor plans to begin work the week of April 20th. No work during Earth Day

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event. Now I happen to drive by the pipe is being de has been delivered. They saw the loaded pipe and now it's on the ground. So it's been delivered. It's stockpiled down by the gate. >> Those are the black ones. >> Those are the long >> black >> you know 20 foot sections whatever they are of of the uh

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I'll get in a second. The >> dctor line piping that's used for water line. So that's the summary there. Um I guess the good news once the project was deemed exempt the contract is ready to go and we'll see that progress happening. Uh he has nothing here that

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says anything about anything that's needed to be done there. So in other words, my assumption is the contractor has got whatever permits he needs from the railroad. That's those fees have been paid, you know, by either DPW or him because there's nothing here that says anything stops the guys from going ahead. So that's I'm going to take that

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to mean that that process is underway >> and we had paid permit fees for the railroad. >> We had already >> many many months ago. So I presume those are >> right. But there was another piece he mentioned off and on about the contractor being coordinated with that

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same permit something like that. So I'm going to take it that they're ready to go. Uh the next comment he has here has to do with the parking lot which I guess we are going to talk about later. So I'll leave that. So that's basically all we had for uh follow up for those two permits.

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>> Can I ask a question? Was there any mention about the fence being moved at at this time? >> If anyone mentions that again in my site, >> what >> I will have a freaking >> I apologize. She's not You're not talking about the gate. You're talking. >> No, no, the gate. The gate. The gate.

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The Devon's gate >> that's going to be moved when Devon gets it. It's not a touch of subject. >> That's me. I'm sorry. >> So, it's apologize. >> There's agreement with Mass Development

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that it will move to about 300 feet, right? Three or 400 feet past our entrance, which is essentially the property line between the remaining >> 70 some acres of DVDW and the Oxbow. Yeah. uh and that there will be

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provisions made for a turnaround at some place, but that it's all good. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And the appropriate signage I >> and >> yeah, >> I think they were trying to figure out when, but soon. It's supposed to happen soon.

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>> Part of our schedule update. Correct answer is that a year ago they said they were going to do it in two weeks. >> Of course, >> the year has gone by. So, it's a little fascination. But the good news is that Dan has a U memorandum of understanding obviously from Oxbow that we've seen already and

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we know that Oxbow is on board and he's got an agreement with Evans and with Mass Development that they will do the work. So the only piece that we have to be responsible for is some signage at the beginning of Bishop Road which we've all talked about before that will notify

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people when the gate is closed rather than nothing. I see the gate closed. >> Yeah. >> So, there be some some signage that'll be DPW is going to do, but we just hope it does happens any day. >> They don't seem to give them a real

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commitment to when they just say they're going to do it. >> Speaking of commitment, one question I do have and it'll be for Dan. Um, as this prog as this project progresses, I assume that the contractor will then bill Dan who will review it and submit

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it for payment, >> which is outside of yeah, >> our purview. However, we've committed that contract amount with the alternate into our overall total budget. And so >> on a monthly basis, we can we can track how much has been spent against that

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commitment. But I just want to make sure that the town's clear. They'll probably be cutting separate checks on Dan's recommendation outside of that, but we'll show it reflected onto our total project budget. >> Um, >> yeah, >> some of that. >> Yeah, I

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>> Yes, I think I'll clarify that. >> If town accounting is expecting, which can be done as well, but if he gets a requisition from is it I forget CHP >> CHP? I those three letters I was way off like that. Um,

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>> and he's got it and he's uh approval of it. He could send it to us and we could include it in the packet. >> Good question. >> I just don't know what the payment schedule and contractual language that Dan has with CHB. So, >> okay. >> You may have terms with them.

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>> Yeah. I just do not want to see the the water Comcast project get delayed because of our building committee schedule on how we structure our payments for um our project. It's a good one. >> So >> that's all I have for answer.

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>> Oh, one more thing. No, >> you want the question. You got something else? >> So I had I had one more thing that concerning this the project in general. So, we got a letter from Mass Developments endorsing the project. Now, did you I'm not sure if you guys saw that or not.

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Okay, this is just came in. So, what happened here was there was a um in the last few weeks. Uh you know, we went to the planning board as well since some of these questions have come up already and they'll be review during the planning board meeting which was a

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pre-application meeting. Uh the town manager mentioned that there had been a walkth through with mass development on several projects in town just a review of projects and one of the projects was a they stopped and looked at the senior center land and then the discussion came up about how important

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it is to with meeper and miser and so forth and it would be nice if they wrote a letter which they did and it's a really nice letter. So, they addressed this, this is from Mass Development, and I'm going to give it to Katie. She should put it in the record, but they addressed the letter to the Mass Environmental Policy Act office in

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Boston and the letter of support to the town of Senior Center Project. I'm going to just read it. I can read it to him. As a neighboring government entity, collaborative partner, and to this infrastructure project, Mass Development is pleased to offer its support to the town of A's construction of a new senior

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center. This project will replace 40-year-old nonAD accessible 1700 foot space located in the basement of the air housing authority with a 13,000q foot standalone ADA accessible facility. The new center will significantly expand the town's ability to provide services,

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programs, and critical support to older adults aligning with the Haley Driscoll administration's priorities outlined in REIM aging. There was a report came out for 2030 and I can't pronounce it exactly. Sorry. >> Reimagine.

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>> Reimagine. There you go. >> The Massachusetts plan and executive order 642 which advanced age friendly practices across the Commonwealth. Beyond serving as a modern accessible space, the senior center will play a significant role in promoting physical and social well-being, helping to reduce

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loneliness, and strengthen the community connections. This in investment will also support efforts to address broader challenges facing older adults including food insecurity, access to health coverage, housing stability, and financial hardship for residents of air in the Nshoba Valley region. Based on

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the design shared with our on our recent site visit hosted by the town of Air, we do not anticipate any negative impacts associated with traffic, noise, visual impact of the area or protection of wildlife. We are coordinating with and support the town of air to reposition

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the gate that controls traffic during key species migration windows which will allow for continued protection of the animals. This project aligns with Mass Development's goals to provide services to residents as we do our part to develop more housing in Devons and the

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Devon Enterprise Commission's efforts to promote nature appreciation in the nearby Oxy, excuse me, Oxbow Wildlife Rescues and the Nashville River Trail. Thank you for your consideration respectfully. Michael R. Sweeney, executive vice president of operations for death master. I don't think it gets

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better than that. >> It's a great Well, that's great. >> I don't think it gets better than that. task chat GPT could do better than bio. >> So the you can see the the professionalism of that because they have the knowledge to hit the correct

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points you know without without hesitation. >> So they hit specific things that the meepa will be looking at they understand that those pieces are very important in our applications. >> That was a big deal. So, that was something that we heard was coming, but

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when you hear it's coming, don't necessarily know it's going to be there. And there it is. So, that's my report. >> All right. >> Right. >> So, Madam Chair, can I ask um could we get or from whom would we get

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um kind of a firmer timeline from Goddard as to how the MEPA approval process will play out? how the public outreach will occur um and exactly what those dates are. Yeah. I was I was doing

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a little house cleaning, you know, spring cleaning, yada yada, and I came upon our January 5th, 2025. >> Yeah. >> A memo written over a year and two months ago >> kind of outlining what it is would be

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doing and how that process ought to unfold. Um it's it's a little disappointing that the MEEPA process has delaying somewhat I guess >> how we are supposed to um you know put

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it out to bid and get construction going. So I think it would be helpful for me certainly to perhaps have Goddard attend one of our meetings and and specify exactly how this process should unfold over the next couple of months um

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so that we can you know be more uh definitive on on what exactly or how exactly this process should unfold. >> I cover some of that in my upcoming schedule uh update in as much detail as we know. There are some durations within

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that that are not fully known because they're uh review periods that may take that operate in a range. Um but I do cover some of that within my schedule update that I'll be delivering as our next agenda.

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>> That's probably a good segue into your part of the agenda. >> All right. Well, I can do that. Um >> I think Dennis's >> good >> point is extremely valid because we knew a few months ago the whole schedule's based on this this MEEPA thing. So the

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tighter we understand it the better all we all are. >> Yes. and and it seems to be driven by Goddard that is Goddard is doing the assessments and providing the documentation and completing the

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application and in their words uh they will be preparing the ENF and will be conducting initial EJ outreach as required >> right >> um and it would be good to know just kind of pin that down and firm it up so

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that it doesn't drip much more than it already is currently. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. I I know DMB scout books in Spain on that as much as you could. So, it's just a real long drawn out thing we have to put up with.

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>> But I don't think it's I don't want to ask the meeting that we can get. We had a meeting about it asking the same questions saying you're you've got a pretty wide net here and a lot of their answers were well we're at the mercy of what this is and you never know thing

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but I think it'd be good to drag them here and and say this exact things >> can you don't have access to putting that just that piece of your schedule up on the screen we talked about >> good that >> he there was a schedule that's been

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updated >> and that is actually where I was thinking to start my my presentation and and >> yeah, we can have that as an exhibit. Well, that is this. But >> a good reminder that Dennis mentioned this because the other thing we talked

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about was having help potential help from our state representative and senator >> and I asked that several times. >> Yeah, >> that has not well unless you guys know something different on me. >> No.

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Do you want to drive this or do you want to just tell me to scroll up or down while you're >> uh we could start with the sort of colored section in there because that breaks out the um MISA and and natural heritage items. So this is based

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on the latest information that we got from Goddard about where these pieces all fit together. And the first piece of that which uh was you Ken mentioned is starting imminently is the um environmental justice outreach. Uh that

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is um sort of the first piece. There's the notifications part of the um of the permitting that that requires Goddard is taking care of that. Uh following that is the the filing of it which we file something called an

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EENF an extended environmental notification form which we present and I think that as Godard explained it that's a two-step process and we're rolling it into one because we have a lot of the data that we need. We think they we can

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ask them to streamline the process by considering all of it at once which is what that second duration there is rollover environmental impact report. those two durations, you can kind of combine them. But so we're looking to

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essentially move through the MEPA process as one continuous step. And this timeline that that's showing on the completion is about when we think that would conclude in approximately midepptember.

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>> So it's going to take five months. >> Yes. >> To do those tests. >> Yes. And that that is what we have been told by Goddard and that is there are some ranges here. These are these um dates or durations that are in that

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column. So 38 days 35 days those are the midpoints of the durations that they gave us in terms of ranges. Um so we anticipate that that would conclude in September. There's a part of

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that that is uh concurrent which is the development of the um the conservation management plan or CMP which is the document that we need in order to stick a shovel in the ground that needs to be completed. Um, we can complete some

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precursors of the building permit application uh and get the administrative items started at least, but we will not be able to stick a shovel in the ground to start construction until that conservation management permit is completed. And we

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anticipate that we'll get to the point where we can submit that in midepptember and then there's some time for that to be processed which is that final duration there which I've bolded. Um so it's looking like construction on the

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site can begin in um essentially late September to early October is what that where that gets us to. And we so prior to

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us receiving the conservation management permits, >> we can >> construction companies will bid on the project. We can commit contractually that the project will be going ahead etc etc etc. Um. >> Mhm.

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>> So those things can run concurrent in anticipation. >> And that is how we have tried to build this schedule that is was sent out to the committee is we've essentially been building it in two

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directions. We have the design milestones which are you know driving the project forward in terms of completion of documents to certain milestones. um your your 60% CDs, your completion of your construction documents, your

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bidding process is working in one direction, but we also know that we don't want to ask contractors to hold their bid or they may not choose to hold their bid beyond a certain date once bidding is completed. So, we also want to be mindful of when we would actually

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be able to start construction and work backwards to make sure that we line things up so that we complete bidding at the right time relative to the completion of the permitting process so that the contractor can then proceed to construction and that they're not left

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with a bid that as Brian has called built sale um or that we asked them to hold it for an undue period of time because then they could come back and claim Um and and for additional money >> and we we suspect or you know that

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between October first week in October and hard freeze the construction company will be able to pour the foundation and get things done. >> Well, we don't know that for sure. >> No, no. I I one of the and and thank you

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um Matt for walking us through that time frame. That is somewhat news to me. I I maybe I missed it out when we were discussing this earlier. I was under the understanding that mid August we would be probably

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approved. The downside to what uh Matt was saying is that we bid this thing holding it more than 30 days is asking a lot. In fact, I doubt if we could ask for more than that. The problem is is that we don't get approval for one reason or another. We don't know. So, we

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go through the bid process, which is not an inexpensive experience. It also opens up all the contractors to what they bid on the project and then the thing collapses and we have to rebid. Um, you know, help me through this with Brian

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and Matt. Um, I'm not aware of this problem. A normal bidding window is anywhere between six and eight weeks. So you put out for filed sub bids, you get those at about four weeks and then you have a GC that comes in after that. >> Yeah. >> Hope is that as we get two months away

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from what we have on our on our schedule here, >> we have a sh clearer idea example what what's left for this MEPA processing. What whose whose desk is it on right now? Are we feeling confident about what it is about before putting this out on the street for it to be to be bid on?

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>> And for a GC spot like this, if we get to we're still feeling very confident, but we still don't have our answer at that point. You can always move the acceptance date bids too. Like we could have this bid window be two and a half months or something on the extreme.

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>> So you could post a date, but you could extend the due date. Is that what you're saying? You can so during bidding window there'll be things called addendum that will be going out to every every plan holder that gets clarification. Part of that clarification could be the due date for acceptance of bids. And so

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>> we've done that before. We've actually gotten close to a bid date and there's some major change that needed to come in. That's not going to give the the contractors enough time. We bump it out another week for them to give them enough time to bid on it. So that's always >> Thank you. Thank you, Brian. I

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appreciate that. I think that needs to be clear for the committee that we we could reasonably start the the 6 to 8 week bid process. Let's say um early August because it's a it's a qualified bid.

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Those contractors will be aware that this is going to happen in the summer period. Um and then we get out to let's say uh u midepptember hopefully we'll have an idea from uh

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it's hard to read the state but but they should be able to give us a pretty clear idea because the real danger is getting the numbers in and having everybody see them and then blow it all you know that that would be a really ugly situation. John, the uh scenario that you're

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describing actually is I don't know if you can see your screen is what's what we're looking >> I see that y >> is is begin the pre-qualification process that leads us into the bidding um between May and July concurrent with

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the completion construction documents >> so that we have a established bidder pool by the end of July an owner review period which then rolls directly into documents being available to biders by mid July or by excuse me by mid August.

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>> Yeah. Mid August. Yeah. >> Um which then starts our filed sub bidding which we then need to get general bids and that concludes the general bidding in midepptember. >> Yeah. get a window there where we we have the

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bids in hand and we're able to allow the contractor a period for submitts and procurement taking care of some administrative items that keep them moving forward while we wait for the CMP to be finalized so we can start work on the site. >> Yeah, that's very very helpful.

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>> Move as quickly as possible given the permitting constraints. you did. I'm glad you >> Dennis's Dennis's point I want to touch on and that is we're going to be into winter conditions and I will have to I'll ask our cost estimator to make sure

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he includes that. I there's no way around that. It's I just want to make it clear we've poured lots of concrete in the dead of winter. There's lots of ways of doing it and but it does create a lot of issues for the contractor terms of

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protecting the building, the concrete work and what have you. >> Yeah. And and keeping the ground from freezing. Um and also they'll be working on a lot of the infrastructure in the building before it's enclosed. Um and

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that is always an issue. And then heating. So I'm going to I'm going to reach out to our estimator. We're giving him a 90% set um for review and and cost estimating uh midweek next next week.

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Um, I notice you've got our sets at 60% or something in June or something, but we're going to be at 90% including completed um um specifications, which by the way, from the architect's viewpoint, I like the, you know, I'm not happy

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about the long wait period, but allows us to really tighten up the drawings and look for little minuscule things that might be a problem during the bid process. But we should be able to get estimates by the end of uh April. That's the way I've set it up. We're a little

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bit behind getting these things because we're going to be discussing the kitchen later and the electrical issues. But um uh >> John, my recommendation is that the committee should approve all of our be tonight and approve going out for

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another estimate at this like it should be the the committee's decision for moving forward with getting this another cost estimate that we're comfortable on where we are. >> One of the problems right now is that quite a while ago we set this up. Our cost estimator window is the 15th of

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April to the 30th and we're in his we're in his his schedule. I will touch base with and see where we can move it off a few weeks. >> I'm not going to have the committee be held hostage by Pete Timothy's schedule on that. So I mean we we also have one on our contract that yeah

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>> you guys let us know when you want to re later on of the stretch that we have here. Maybe it's worth spending your money later on in the calendar year for it. I think I was pretty clear about this a couple meetings ago that this is the window for our cost estimate. I understand it can change. Not a problem.

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I will make that clear for Tim uh Pete Timothy. Uh I believe he'll accommodate us. I just want you to know that we had scheduled it at with with the committee knowing this 15th of April to the 30th. I'll try and move that to June, which is

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plenty of time, I believe, for him to reschedule us into his work schedule. Um, and uh, we'll add winter conditions into the project. >> Okay. Through the chair, back to Dennis. >> Yes.

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>> I think what we need to do is we need we've been using Dan Valqu as our reach out to Godard >> and I hate to put more pressure on Dan. It it seems to me evident that God should be giving us like a report every other week. We have to they have to be on a reporting schedule to us rather

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than us waiting for them to come back to us. >> Yes. So that I'm saying we need to tighten that up and ask S to somehow get to guard it with the communication that says the committee expects a report every two weeks and then we'll there's

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there's a tiny opportunity that with the kind of work that we got from mass development and continued work from other people the whole game pan if you can go back to that that might be over the committee's head but let let's just let's make it simp

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which is the final ENF or the the second part of the combining them together basically the extended is that the right word or expanded ENF >> then it says the the environmental

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impact report okay that you're we're trying to avoid the total requirement in that section that's kind of it the EIR so potentially during this reachout period communication period maybe we'll get in move ahead.

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>> Well, and isn't this whole process transparent and open to the public? Like the comment period? >> Yeah. It's going to every every agency and every town and city around here will be notified of it. That's the open comment period. Yes. >> Well, no, that's what I'm saying is so

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if the if the potential implications to the project, right? >> Yeah. >> We will be able to watch that whole thing unfold, right? and be able to say >> after that letter there won't be any implications to the project. I don't think >> I I don't think so either. But what I

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guess what I'm saying is, you know, as that we could be if there were some if we anticipated based on some commenting that there might be changes required. It doesn't mean we couldn't be incorporating them as they go along. Right. >> No, that's the whole process is open and transparent,

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>> right? >> Yeah. Okay. I just wanted to make sure I understood that. >> Yeah. There's a the specific time frame you you there is a specific response time frame >> required. So when they what's the name of that publication the state monitor that the the there's a

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>> central register >> excuse me >> central register >> the central register when this gets posted on that there's a time period now for responses. So, but they should be telling us God should reporting to us. This is when it gets posted. This is when we expect responses. More

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specifically to what you're asking, >> right? That is right. >> I mean, I'm new to all this. I'm a little surprised it hasn't been posted already given >> the amount of >> I mean, this has been it has been clear that this process would need to unfold since January of 2025.

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>> And we knew that these things would have to happen, >> right? But we could have we had to have a set of drawings ready. We couldn't do it before we had start site plan drawings. >> We had to have a site developed and set of drawings. They in fact they approved everything we sent in for drawings which

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is an achievement. We couldn't submit an application without a complete set of plans >> and >> and we did we have plans. >> We only got the plans done what month and a half ago or something like that. >> End of February. To a novice, it would appear that

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this has been dragged out and is laborious. And I still don't have a clear understanding >> of on what date the town of air will hold a public meeting hosted by Goddard >> to discuss the um MEPA approval.

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>> Yeah. >> And I would think that we should have that date by now. >> Yeah, it's a good point. >> Y have that date. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'll swing back to Dan for more information on that. >> You know, just one final piece just

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following up on what our project manager said. I can tell you something that I learned during this process and there's a lot to learn for everybody. I did I thought originally I'm mentioning this only for the benefit of everybody else that we could get the

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MISA environmental done >> early because that I kind of was indicated to me that that would be the case. Then I found out during the process you can't get the meer until Visa gives me that environmental completion that >> tethered together. Yeah.

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>> Right. Then I I just thought there was two that was a learning experience as well. So hopefully we'll get that going. >> I mean, I would take that I really appreciate that list, but I think we should all be shooting to improve that list somehow. Every single every week we

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should be working on getting it. >> Yes. Because, you know, to to John's point about winter conditions and weeks matter. you know, if we drop it, you know, if it happens 3 weeks sooner than otherwise, it could mean, you know, the construction goes somewhat smoother or

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we don't incur some of the additional costs associated with having to build under winter conditions. >> I hate to be devil's advocate, >> but this is an ideal timeline. It only takes one person to come up with some off-the-wall comment that Meepa says,

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well, no, now you have to address this. And then it starts the process over again if I understand it right. >> Because you have to address whatever the concern was and then go through the comment period over again so that people can now comment on new updated plans if

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I understand the process correctly. >> Right. >> So if this is this is like nobody complained everything went perfectly right. If somebody comes up with something that we don't foresee, this whole timeline could go out the

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window >> and we have to start and push back because now you have to oh well this salamander is in the wrong spot. >> We're keeping positive energy though. You know, >> they're used to looking at projects that

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you're building dams along the ocean and you know, freaking huge highways and stuff like that. This is a really small >> real small data. >> Yeah, you're right. >> But but it only takes one of those environmental justice people to come out and say, "Well, wait a minute. What about this?

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>> We're doing so much for them. We're doing so much for >> Okay, thanks. >> Any of the >> So, I did want to touch on two things in the schedule that I didn't I I went past it. If you go back up to the thing, uh there it is in the in the the blue item

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in the middle of the permitting phase was the timeline that Dan Van Scalpwick asked me to carry about the completion of the gate movement. Um in our last communication about it, he anticipated that that would be complete by the end of June. So that's the the date that's

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shown there in your schedules. And the other update to this since the last iteration reflects the updated planning board timeline as relayed by Ken. So that the current timeline for the planning board approvals is captured uh

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in the planning board phase there. that shows the um and some of those have been completed um already, but um the uh planning board public hearing um is the the 28th. And then we have the uh site

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plan approval um and um followon steps for the planning board for both site plan and storm water uh which are going to be running concurrently. And um Ken advised that there is a a duration for the final sort of administrative sign

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off by the planning board which is where that that last piece comes from planning board final sign off on decision. We anticipate that that would be mid June. I put it on a date that would end the calendar week for simplicity and building the schedule but that would be

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some point in mid June. So, >> we did we already reported about the pre-application meeting and all that, didn't we? Two weeks ago or something? >> I didn't have anything further on schedule. Were there any before?

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>> Thank you. This looks great. Um, did you guys want to cover did we want to go into the budget and discussion now? Yeah, quickly I can give a a quick budget review that's on the large 11 by17.

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Some columns have been hidden just to give you a sense of where we started at town meeting, what was approved at town meeting, and where we sit today, which is in the uh dark green column. Um, we gave Katie some ideas on potential VE to

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present to the select board. uh when she sat in front of them as we knew we were a little higher than where we were at town meeting. And so not only we have the alternates identified, but we needed to come up with some ideas based on our review of the estimate and review of um

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other ideas that we had for here. And so what we've put what the difference between our middle column and our right column is the is the yellow and what's been highlighted. And what you see there is a $455,000 reduction in value engineering. Matt has

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put together kind of a boiled down thing that doesn't encapsulate everything that we want to go through today, but I wanted to kind of just show you the bottom line with the 455 taken out of this budget. I will take your

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second the bottom line which which creates estimated town meeting apps with generators and partitions. And so we've identified those as well while they're still shown as alternates on our on our plan for the message from our town manager is that those are very high

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clarity on project anyway. And so at town meeting our total project budget minus what has been currently appropriated was at 11.49. So that is this second to bottom line on the left column. That's where we went

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into town leading. This is what our budget is with the exercise of the some things out with that 455,000. We're at about 11.69. And so there are some things that we

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still have some work to do, but I think we're still in a decent position doing the work that we did. And so what I what I'd like to do and what we've asked before we get into the conversation about other things such as kitchen and and site work and other potential ads, I wanted to kind of snap the line here and

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go through some of the things that we brought up that um we think is a good idea and that we might need to do before we proceed to another estimate. Um, so what what makes up that um that 455? And

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before I say that, I did want to bring your attention to one other thing that we did is if you can see the line in contingencies, which is uh about halfway down the page. As you can see, we increased our construction contingency slightly from 3 to 4%. It's just we're

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we're trying to bolster our contingency as we get into um the later into the design period. Our estimates are going to have a reduced design contingency. We want to make sure our construction contingency is um you know standard for this type of a project. So as you can

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see we could make ourselves >> say standard for the committee purposes four to 5%. >> We usually four to 5%. goal for a construction is you're spending 1 to 3% during it with some leftover funds out there is is usually our experience on

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that. So, um with a with a great geotech and good soil out there, you know, that's usually the biggest unknown and this is going to be ground up. So, you know, a lot of it, you know, hopefully it gets caught before things even get get into construction. So, um, if per

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for say we lowered that contingency down to where it was at town meeting, we're we're getting even closer to where we were for our total project budget of that 11.49. >> Okay, >> that 11.49 represents the $10 million

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that was authorized at town meeting for borrowing plus >> excuse me, come in and voted 11.59 million. So it it it approved 10 million >> with a $1.5 million borrow contingency that is subject to grant

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>> one or the other. That's my understanding and what what I've been told and I >> the vote was 11.5. >> Yes, it was. >> The discussion was separate from that. >> Yeah. >> Interestingly enough, but we'll go with what you said >> if I have it. I guess I think it should be part of our packet with the warrant

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languages because there's a lot of push back that we get as well on what we're presenting as our budgets here as well. >> Correct. >> Definitely have that vote and I'll get >> Okay. Thank you. So that being said, if we even lowered contingency slightly at this point in the in the game, we're

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we're ve getting very close to where we were originally at our town meeting budget, which is which is good. um that doesn't mean that we should still should be making some still be doing work to to come in from there and making and doing the best we can to uh economize what we have.

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That being said, to go over to uh Matt's boiled down VE list, this is a this is ultimately a boiled down list from the large comments that everybody gave us, which was great. And then we wanted to make sure if there was cost impacts on those comments. And then we also wanted to uh identify what was going to have a

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potential value engineering item for that. Um can I ask um on the on the top one parking lot reduction in the comments it says uh parking area walkways are designed in this way as a safety feature and are desired to remain

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as is. who desires that or I know that I know that John >> the architect does >> about about life safety for senior centers like it's the reason why we have areas of refuge on the second floor

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there's a lot of safety issues that are really important and that's one of them >> and so that's why that reflects the cost impact that's I say only but it's $30,000 because that reflects a reduction in curving in certain areas to going from vertical granite down to

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something different is what we have. So it would be a reduction there. >> Yeah. And I think Dan Dan V um had indicated that he would be comfortable with the raised walkway if we eliminated the end caps so they could plow straight

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through which I don't think we would have a big problem with it. You might end up with some damaged cars but you won't hurt anybody. And and that was Dan's I think we saw an email from him >> just the other day on that.

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>> I was we're gonna get to that. Yeah. Yeah. >> I can go through the line items quickly. You stop me if I'm going too fast or if you have a question on this. Um we are looking to realize $100,000 savings. This is based upon uh soil disposal

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fees. This was in our estimate that we had for a pretty large sum of money uh to the tune of four four plus $100,000 that we had there for uh exporting fill. Um we'd like to I utilize the the site that we have in DPW to hopefully make

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that trucking shorter and potentially really reduce that. So we took a 100,000 off. We think that's conservative enough that we're we're still being riskaverse, but we should be able to claw some of that money back. >> Can I ask you sorry just a second because I didn't want to forget this. Have you guys ever been to the backyard of the DPW?

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>> No, I have not. >> Okay, we need to take a trip. Just the three of us. Sure. >> Show you what we have then got. Y >> So you're familiar with your mind's eye about what he's talking about here. >> And do is it is it available? >> Oh, it's huge. >> Okay. So there's no concern about

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>> I want you to see it. >> No capacity. >> There's no capacity concern. In fact, there's so much material there, they probably have enough material to put in the subbase for our parking lot. store mil machine from all the piles and piles of really nice stuff.

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>> So that'll get into the discussion later, but should at least get a visual on it, >> right? >> So you understand. Have you ever been there, Dennis? Anybody? >> I have. I have not seen those piles. >> It's my book. >> Would it be worth it? >> That's really nice. >> I'm going off topic here, but would it

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be worth getting a civ and proctor analysis on that said material that's been piled? >> Yeah, it would. But it's all good stuff. But >> the main point is that to clarify this discussion of the distance for you guys talking about in the roads to get you

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there. That's that's what I'm talking about is so you can see the actual >> physical shape of a thing. >> Great. >> We could ask Danv too. Danv may have a good handle on the on the quality of that that material. >> It's material right after right

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>> if the engineers sign off that it's suitable for that use. That's huge. Yeah. later, you know, financial credit. >> I think it's important that my my point was just for you to see the physical thing. So, you're not just talking about storing it over here and you're guessing. >> Yes, >> you'll know. Thank you.

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>> Um, next is uh a reduction in our cut fill analysis. We did have an initial takeoff be done before design was even done. Uh, there then was a placeholder in our estimate for the amount of cut and fill soils to get to our correct elevation. I think by the time that

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we're ready for our next estimate, we'll have better uh contours and we'll know exactly what that actual cut fill analysis is going to be. But we did lower that down by $25,000. >> Yeah. And that's reasonable because we did redesign the height of the building.

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It was settled because of the neighbors property. We didn't want to have to go into that property with a grading. So, we we actually lowered the building. Um, and um I I think that we're not we're not going to have as much.

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>> So, call I asked Vertex if you'd give me a separate price just to estimate the same work. >> Follow up on that. >> Yes, I will follow up and give you the price for that. >> Just site. >> Just site taking a civil dollar and they don't just give us an estimate based on

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the civil. They're done. They're 100% >> in house. We have a civil plan reviewer and I want to find out if she can do cost estimating as well, but if not then I'll get it from a third party. >> Okay. Just find I mean if it's a number

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>> so those two are more or less not for review or approval. That's kind of what how our analysis was of where we are that we can reduce those numbers there. Um next is stone veneer and this one's unique. It was duplicated in our estimate. So it was actually in the cost estimate but we're also carrying the same number as an alternate. So this is

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also, you know, we can discuss later on whether or not the what alternate that is or whether it's wanted at all, but this can be removed from the estimate because it's already being counted as part of our alternates. So that was a reduction of 95,000. That includes uh the stone veneer and also the uh the cap

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that was uh included as part of that in the estimate. Uh reduce pavement from unit papers to a more cost-effective alternative. I did put this in here. Uh there have been a bunch of back and forth about what that is. Um I think Matt you had a you had

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some uh feedback on this as you had experience with it. Correct. But >> um >> we put that this in as 15,000 is something we found on the on the uh estimate. We would work with John about any other materials that could be used uh in these areas and potentially use

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like a stamp concrete rather than >> John had an idea too that we could change some walkways from concrete to >> Yeah. either batuminous or maybe just gravel if they're out of the way. >> So, we we anticipated that to stay about

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15 grand. Um building signage on the uh estimate we had a building sign uh allowance out there for I believe it was $25,000. Um I don't believe besides maybe some

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standard lighting that we could do this in a in a cheaper way. Um, I think you know, Matt and I both worked on the um, King Street project in Littleton, which is the new school department there on King Street. And, you know, nice couple pieces of granite and a and a nice sign.

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Um, you know, wasn't that expensive. So, um, I think we can find something a little more economy than what was on the estimate. >> Uh, some HBAC modifications. This will be something that we have. Uh, we'll just need to have some feedback from the

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mechanical engineer. Uh this is feedback uh right from you, Ken. Um looking at some of the fan coil units that we had, whether that that could be uh supplemented with the unit heater, which is a less um less pricey product that we could put up in certain areas to heat instead of having fan coils. And so we

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reduced that by 10,000 as well. Couple other ideas that I've put on here, and this is really just a standard placeholder that we put in uh on a lot of our VE exercises, is giving ourselves some flexibility with plantings. And when we get to that point of that landscape plan is potentially even

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asking the landscape designer to come in here knowing what we have for our planting estimate at this point and seeing if there are other options in our in our need to potentially reduce this down. Some plantings can also be put into an alternate. Um, or, you know, it

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could be something that you really thin down your planting plan and you see where you're at towards the end of a project and and so you're not hamstringing your programming or your building itself, but you have an understanding how much money you have left at the end and so that you could replace it towards the end and take that out of contingency. Right.

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>> That's a good idea. That's a good idea. I I don't have a problem with that. We do want to get a screen to the DPW site, but but that's a real good option because there will be money left over at the end. And and I think what uh Brian says is that you'll be able to have your

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landscaper who's one of the last guys on the site to add in some elements that we wanted in the original design. So, good point. >> Fundraising opportunity, too. You can put racks, put benches, put things. >> Is that part of the friends thing,

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Katie? something like that. >> There is some Yeah. >> make a comment you know for the record we have, you know, put in it's part of our package. We have a landscape plan submitted. >> Yes. >> But the goes through the site plan

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review. Be cautious about that. >> Well, we're not saying we're going to not do it. What we're saying is or Brian's saying is there should be money left over to complete that plan. And also for fundraising re reasons, we have

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a lot of sites where they have garden plaques in honor of somebody that they they threw out the money. We got it all at the end. We never had to >> We can't even take those items out. >> So, can I ask a couple things? Do we

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know what the total landscape design and the landscape construction budget is? How much did we allow for those two things? >> We don't have that estimate yet because we're not we're doing a final estimate. >> The last full estimate had it. >> And the the other thing is assuming all

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goes swimmingly with the schedule, it looks like they'll be ending construction in late midfall of 2027. >> Yes. Would it be appropriate or necessary for the plantings to be done the following spring just because of the

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nature of whatever you're planting? And how do you >> kind of manage the budget >> for that? You're going to have to get a waiver for that and during that process. If you want to get a certificate of occupancy, everything has to be done. But the possibility of a waiver when you

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run into that situation. Yeah, we've had several times where you're outside of the planting window and a contractor is not going to risk it knowing they're going to have to repent everything in the spring. So, >> you work with the building department, get a temporary occupancy at that point and then come spring

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>> kind of mobilize that point and get this done. The landscape >> I think >> Dennis was a little bit optimistic there. We're not going to be finished by midfall of 2027. It's going to >> be closer to the end of winter. Eight uh

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14 to 15 months and we usually allow a little bit more time. >> Just reading what's I'm just reading what's on the paper, John. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm just telling you what it takes. 14 to 16 months. So the the landscape specifications

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where the planting scope is described will typically allow for two possible planting windows because you want the ground to not be frozen but you want it to occur at a time when plants >> tend to be dormant so it reduces the transplant shock so you don't get a lot

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of die off. So typically there are fall plantings and there is a specific defined window in the landscape specifications that describe a spring window. There there are windows of opportunity. Plant them in the middle of the summer. A lot of heat stress

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>> plants don't survive very well. Can't plant them in the middle of the winter. Ground is frozen. won't take. >> Last night we did in his previous uh >> I've planted many things in fall in in September, October and they actually do better.

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>> They actually do better. >> That's what Matt was saying. Yes. >> Absolutely. It'll either be >> uh mid to late fall or early early spring. Mhm. >> Okay, just to wrap this up, another one

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that we put on here is uh a a reduction in in architectural mill work. And so this will take an exercise with with our end user and then bring it to the committee. Um but it's ultimately finding areas where we have architectural mill work which would be

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owned by the contractor which is a prevailing wage and with everything being installed. if there's other items, whether it's certain closets or items that's not really accessed by the public, that you can go out and put this into your furniture package and get this at a more cheaper price. And so whether that's >> absolutely

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>> certain things that maybe we don't need a finished carpenter on site in order to do that, we can find a more a cheaper product in order to do it. And so I put it on here for 10 grand. I looked at the the architectural millwork package. It's pretty robust. and we can go through and we can identify things that may be able

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to cut that down or not. >> That being said, the only other item that's not on here, I think you'll notice that the bottom line says 255. Um, the kitchen I'm I'm going to just cross out for right now because that's for another discussion after this. But what's this is not showing is also a

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realization of savings on our utility budget. We have a million dollars in there right now. Thank you to our DPW uh director who has been getting those bids in. He also has a placeholder for DPW labor in order to clear the land in order for national grid work that's

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going to be coming in from I believe it's the Bishop Road area that's that we're bringing the >> comes over the behind the building >> behind the building >> from the transmission lines. >> Yep. That all needs to be cleared. He gave me kind of a rough order of magnitude on what to put in. That's still going to result in what we're hoping is about $150,000 in savings on

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that overall million dollars of utility that we have. So, um, knock on wood that we can we can see that savings, but we're we're showing it right now and we're tracking every piece of utility that comes in. Um, >> when you mean you're showing it, you're

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showing the prices were received, but you're not showing the credit, the the safe. >> So, what I I've lumped it into that highlighted number here, that 455, >> the 455 and the value engineering correct cell there inclusive of that.

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>> Got it. Um, this just occurred to me in terms of utilities. I I spoke with the Comcast, I want to say director of governmental relations or something >> regarding how much bandwidth is going to be coming into the building. Um, and and

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what he said, Comcast is currently in the process of upgrading air portions of air with increased bandwidth as as part of one of the grants that they've received. He said that the timing looks like

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by the time we're ready to get the building up and running, Comcast will have um put in the wiring and the software that will allow what he said was multi- gig upstream and downstream bandwidth to

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that location. Is there a way for you guys to keep track of that as a that is I'm not sure exactly what that timing will be for Comcast because part of the improvement in bandwidth will be as a result of they have to physically change

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the hardware and part of it is upgrading the software which I guess at the end of the day gives you the increased bandwidth but >> so in my understanding is the alternate and the bid that just came in from Dan is the Comcast portion

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>> kind of infrastructure infrastructure there. Right. >> So what you're saying though is by the time that we are ready to call Comcast and say we're ready. We're ready for you guys to pull >> if these these initiatives have been brought in and we're up to speed. We're

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not putting a legacy system in and switch. Okay. because it would be great to have that that level >> put that on the agenda like a year from last night wondering how we've got a building in dollar but yes yes yes

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absolutely so that being said I I know options here I think that these are all kind of reasonable understanding of why we put the number together that we did it will require some work potentially from the working group identifying where

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that 10 grand of mill work is going to be saved or 10 grand of the the planting scope that we can bring forward with the drawings. But um the others are kind of lowhanging fruit to try to skinny us up and and tighten our belt. Um ultimately

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if we accept this, we'll snap our line here of this is where our budget is currently knowing we have a little bit of work left to do. Um and we could we'll have to do this exercise again once we receive our estimate. that estimate is now going to show our new kind of bidding timeline. Uh the the DD

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estimate had a bidding window that was earlier than this. And so you're going to get up-to-date um numbers on you know what he foresees is the bidding window in that August time uh data how bids are coming in right

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now. I know that there's an uncertainty right now that that becomes a real a real thing. um >> it's getting suiting plastic stuff, right? And so >> what we've asked too is in addition to

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this, you know, we we'd like to have more ideas from the design team as well of like, hey, we might be able to do this. Identify any of more alternates and then also identify potential alternates we have on here that we don't maybe we don't want. We have a pickle ball court for 200 grand on there right

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now. that's going to probably be our lower on the lower end of what the priorities are. That's kind of the sense that >> um we may need to add some more to to gain ourselves some flexibility in bid day. So >> Brian, can I ask in your experience? I

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mean right now we're 192,000. Yep. So we're a little right around 2% over the total budget which is >> in your experience as this point in the process is being 2% off. I mean, how

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much variance would you anticipate there would normally be? And is this a higher more than or less than or above the what is typical? >> In my opinion, it's uh it's concern but not panic. I guess we'll put it that way. You know, I I'd like to see us, as

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I've been communicated to by the town and by the town manager, like that 115 is our back up against the wall is how I is how I look at this budget. And so I'm still feeling confident that we can get there. And we have other relief valves that we can pull in order to do that.

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But I also want to continue with this work and I want to create more relief valves so that when we do get to bid day, we're comfortable that we can make sure that we hit this hit this target. So >> I'd like to remind everybody that the cost estimate is the middle of the

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estimate. >> Yeah. He he he looks at there's a higher level and a lower level based on the current market conditions and the estimate lands in the middle. So you have a good chance of coming well under you got a chance of going over. And I

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agree with Brian, the closer we come to that middle level, the more comfortable we will be. And I think we'll hear a whole lot after this next estimate. Um which I'm hoping to get soon. >> The pre-qualification process gives you a really good idea. We just did

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Princeton's public safety, very similar to the size of this project that we have. I think we had 17 general contractors try to get qualified for the job and we we said no to two. That's an enormous pool which kind of tells you that there's a lot of competition out there. People are hungry and they're

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looking to do it. I hope that continues um through the summer. But >> um >> yeah, >> which which is indicative of a good bid towards that. To John's point, which is a good one, >> estimators are not estimating the job to win it. They're estimating it to help us

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create a realistic budget for the project. >> They're estimating, as John said, to the middle of what they anticipate the bid range would be. So, while we can't count our chickens before we hatch, what that estimate number is telling us is that if we bid this right now, there is a chance

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it could be lower than that um at the lower end of the bid range. But we can't promise that that the purpose of the estimating exercise is to help us build budget and make sure that the budget is realistic. >> Lastly, what I just wanted to say is we this is from information that we were

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provided is that the the other highlighted line at the bottom shows our fundraising goals. We have put a number in there for 350,000. if that changes or if there's a concern that that's too high or too low, please let me know because that that also affects our

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bottom line about what our total project budget is. And so I know that's a moving target and I know that's a a work that's going that's got a long ways ahead of us on this, but um >> can I ask a question about this last section, Katie, through you? Where is

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>> should there be a line in here for the u the uh grant we just tried to apply for this platform? That's not on its list, unless I'm missing it. I could be missing. >> CDBG is one of those very, very light yellow ones and there's nothing in it >> right now.

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>> CDBG, >> it's two lines below the orange housing choice. >> Oh, I'm looking on the right. Excuse me. I'm sorry. Okay, I see it now. >> Even more importance about the warrant

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>> Yeah. language as it's been told to me is that it's either the additional borrowing or the CDBG. And so if we received the CD say the CDBG was a million dollars, >> right? >> The way that I interpret what's been

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told to me, >> right, >> that means that our total budget is now 105. >> Exactly. You is right. But the vote >> plus plus the grant. >> Correct. >> Yeah. Right. I want to mention one thing and you we breezed over the um

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fundraising. Most fundraising success occurs while the building is under construction. People actually see it happening. It gets a lot of press and those the fundraising numbers build very quickly during that period and

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especially if they do some walkthroughs, you know, when it when when we can. Um, and I think that number right now is a very conservative number for fundraising. I mean, the town of Milbury, we raised $900,000 and that

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was, you know, 20 years ago. I It's a It's surprising how when people see what's happening, how quickly they're willing to do a memorial piece or whatever. So, keep that in mind. Let's leave that number just like it is, but I

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think it has a good potential to raise Should we take that CPC line out of there since we know it's dead meat? >> Yeah. Um, yeah, community preservation funds could probably come out. >> I'll take it up. >> Yeah.

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>> So, to to let the committee know, um, Barbara, the town finance director, has asked regarding bond council, had some questions. We are revamping these funding sources here at the bottom. We'll take that one out. But we also wanted to put in there other other sticks in the fire that you have right

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now for potential other funding sources. So, >> um, and though it's not on the agenda, since we're talking about outside funding sources, I should announce we did not get invited back to the second round of the Health Foundation grant, which is

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>> really disappointing because the meeting that I had with the grant administrator was very positive and seemed like there was a a really good alignment between our project and that. But the good news is is that due to the nature of what we

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applied for 122,000 for the fitness room there and the timeline, there's actually really nothing that would prohibit us from applying again next year for those funds. So

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I haven't given up yet. >> Yeah. So I think that wraps just with budget if everyone's comfortable with that. Obviously we're open uh to any other suggestions that maybe some people have and we also have asked our design team to identify other things that we

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can put on a list. It doesn't mean that we just throw away the ve list and we're done. Now at this point it's a it's a living document that we're adding and subracting to. >> So can you tell me or tell us when in the process do we have to order the alternates y >> prior to the

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>> Yep. So, uh, one of the John may disagree, but during that before it goes out to bid, we need to identify exactly what our alternate list is in by in priority. And so on bid day when we receive our bids, we'll and we're going to use a third-party online

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bidding service. So, at 20 on the date that we say, we'll get an email with a spreadsheet of everything and you'll see the low bid and then every bid that they have for an alternate with it. certain alternates have other pieces and other subs that go into it. So, it it really

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um you need to make the decision after all the bids come in in order what alternates you'd like to take and usually it's budget driven by at that point whether or not you can take them. >> Yes, absolutely. We have to take them in the order that

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>> y >> and so we will want and we don't need to know it now >> but at some point we would want to have a conversation about how the order of the alternates and that's correct >> that's 100% and the reason for the

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forcing you to do that instead of cherrypicking the ones that you want is to eliminate bid rigging. >> Yes. say that you have a low bidder that I know and I've had a bad experience with, but if you take the second low bidder and alternate three, then we're

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actually we have a different scenario. And so it keeps it really rigid and makes the low. So >> yeah, >> much as I'd like to >> one thing for Dennis, I I just mention one thing is we we don't want 15

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alternates. We need to keep the alternate list fairly concise. Um, I don't know what Brian and and Matt might say, but I like to keep it, you know, six. Six would be a lot, maybe seven. >> So, keep that in mind that, you know,

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when we and the alternates are there to help you, it's not that you you don't you you most likely will get a number of them, but not all of them. you might only get one, but the the deal is to um understand that that does not prevent

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you down the road of getting some of these things in line when once the budget gets worked out and you spend your money and you may get some fundraising that will help buy in and alternate later. There's some technicalities of that and we won't get into those details. Um but um but your

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list is in order and you'd like to keep it fairly limited. Okay, that's good to know, John. I'm sorry, Ellen. Go ahead. >> It looks like the generator and multi-purpose room partition are in the alter >> still being carried as that

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those are definite. >> Correct. >> They're definitely it is the way the spreadsheet >> heav our job our the whole job for OPM and the architect is to bring this baby in on budget. If it doesn't come on budget,

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you don't get it. So, you put in some things that are expensive right up front in the first number one or two in your alternates, but they're big items. You want to hit the budget. Um, I've never had it not get the first two or three alternates, but you rarely get all of

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them. >> Talk about the same thing with >> We did it. The estimate had it broken out, so we just used it. We were copying what came in as our estimate and wanted to make it um >> Okay. So, the order you have them here is not necessarily the order.

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>> No, it does not happen. >> The stone veneer is certainly not the one. >> Oh, no, no, not at all. In fact, you're it's going to be the committee's decision. Uh we we all make a recommendation, but the committee decides how the alternates are listed. >> Okay.

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>> Yep. Yeah, I noticed that you actually had put of the small list that you had and you had used the term yes on the right for a couple of >> possible alternate. Yes, actually I can >> I differ in that thinking completely. >> So

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>> my point is that if we determine we have a savings, it's a savings and take it. >> Don't use it as an ad alternate. I think the committee should be strong enough to decide >> it's a savings and we're not going to have it as an adult alternate because we just don't think we need it. That's my opinion.

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>> So the purpose of that and and to I understand your point completely again. The purpose of saying possible alternate is that they were scope items that related to a single trade of scope and would be easy candidates to add or take

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out of the project without over complicating the documents. >> Yeah. That's all it is. If we decide that we want to accept them and to your point the ones on this list >> Yeah. >> we should take >> Yeah. Yeah, if they're out, they're out. >> All I'm trying to say is that as a

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committee, I think it's important if we decide that we want to just save money, >> no sense even putting it back at all. Just leave it out. >> Right. So, well, in that just occurred to me, what happened to the pergola to the left of the front door? >> We never got to it. Never got to the discussion. >> No, not hasn't been touched.

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>> So, it's still there. >> No, it's still there. >> Still there? >> Yeah. >> Okay. That's one that I can >> Yeah. >> So, we can take that out, right? We talked about already. We never It didn't It never reached the point of any piece of paper that I saw. Okay. And the

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>> I I tell you right now, don't strip the building for fear of budget. We're going to hit this budget. We're going to get a new estimate. >> We should these decisions right now and I will walk you through why it's important down the road.

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>> I totally disagree, John. >> And the attention right always disagrees with me. like things that don't impact too much but we can realize it now without making a real hard decision or argument at this point in time.

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>> So it's it's important for us to understand I'm taking this from you guys. We went through a value engineering step but we haven't completed the bid documents. So we still have through the construction document phase to potentially have found a few more

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things. Am I right about that? Yes. So everyone can think about it that way. We're not done with this thinking. We should keep thinking. >> I lost two guys. >> I don't want to hear. >> We have the chance. >> He didn't want me to hear what Ken was saying. That's all. I understand.

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>> He was saying that he loves working with you, John. >> Yeah. Keep up the good work, Ken. >> He has his ups and downs. Believe me. >> But Ken's right. We have a long ways to go, especially now that we're talking about not getting construction going

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till October. Um, that gives us a lot of time to really tighten the drawings, get really good numbers back from the cost estimator and maybe the second cost estimator so that we have a good solid handle on where this is going. My job as

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and and the OPM's on my team on this, our job is to bring this in on budget. There's nothing worse than having to go back to bid again, lifting the whole job out another eight weeks or 10 weeks. So, our job is to make sure that we have

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enough ad alternates to make sure it hits the budget. And we won't know that until the drawings, the final drawings or very close to finals are issued out. And we're very close to that. By the way, I've got 90% all of my engineering

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in hand. We just got it recently. and I dropped off with the building department a very very complete set for um for them to look through. I I drove it down last week. So, he's he's had a chance to look start looking at it. I asked him to get

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back to me with any concerns he has and I think Ken's been in front of the planning has the planning board seen these drawings? I think so, right? Is that correct, Ken? The planning board, the planning board at this point in time only needs what we gave them in the cemental, the elevations. They don't

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need that detail of the architecturalists. >> Yeah. But they have seen it. So I mean the idea >> I'm on the planning board. I I've seen them, but other people on the pling board haven't seen it. >> Yeah. But we've gotten feedback from you and and and I think if there's any glaring,

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>> you know, issues. >> Yeah. And same same with the building department. and I'll check back with him this week, this coming week, or if you see him, just check with him. I don't I haven't heard anything yet, but I did ask him if you see anything um that we might have omitted or

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misunderstood um or he needs clarification on that that that would be a big help because we want these drawings going to the cost estimator as complete as possible. So he can gives us a very good number and then

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we'll review that with you and our well the first the working committee and then over to the main committee and I think we'll we'll know a lot more by mid June. >> You own a estimate with us as well and >> it's in our budget.

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>> Yeah. >> It's in our contract now. So you guys >> Yeah. We could either take it out or leave it or use >> take it out or you could use it later. And I'm wondering just because of this new information that we have, we're going to have a a a period of time where maybe it would be smart to stagger it.

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Usually my experience is that John will go and get his and we get ours at the exact same time and then we get the estimators in the room. We reconcile so that we feel confident about this. >> Knowing that, you know, our contracts aren't we don't have a million estimates to do. It might be smart to stagger them

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and maybe get another one later on in the process to see where we're at. The estimated the estimate that you're providing probably call us for your document is not inhouse at Vert.Ex. It's still an outside estimate. >> Absolutely. >> Correct. >> Independent. So there's >> PMA or whatever their name is. They're

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very good. >> During that process that Vertex could take another look and say maybe there's some other VE. >> Oh, we're doing that as well. >> I just want to emphasize to the committee that we can still use you guys through this process too to look at value engineering. Mhm.

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>> Thank you. >> Speaking of value of engineering and the sake of time, can we move forward into yes >> our discussion about the parking lot and the kitchen. So, um, at our last meeting, we had talked about reductions in the parking lot, and there was a lot

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of conversation about the raised walkway versus a non-raised walkway. And, um, you know, per the notes here, John really wants us, is leaning on the safety piece of it to

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keep the walkway in the center. Um the $30,000 savings is assuming and I confirming here that that's assuming we keep the raised walkway and we change the granite that's there. But there could be more than $30,000 savings if we

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took the whole thing that went just to striped as >> the number you see in this list here is a um cutting the granite curbing by 25%. Um and also I think Dan V um who's not present for for this discussion said

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that taking the end caps off he'd be very happy with the plowing issues there. >> That's not unfortunately he's got an error there. I believe that's going to become a there's landscaping there. I think there's all >> we're taking out the landscaping too there. >> He knows he knows that.

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>> So >> we can't do that through the planning world. That's >> right. So, so that will create >> like we part of what we've been weighing is what is the ripple effect of each of these VE options and so you're pointing

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out that if we remove the end caps and the planning board what >> just for clarification okay we have submitted the drawings to the planning the drawings in all probability I believe the entire project has and I wish I had it with me either vertical

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granite or vertical granite with that clipped beveled edge. Okay, which is even more expensive than vertical granite because that's going through the process a second time. >> So I my preference now and I think the recommendation would be we got to go through the pling board the way it is.

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Okay, then when we look at where all the vertical granite curve is and we can turn that those edges into sloped granite curve. >> Yeah. save the the vertical let's say on the extremes outside of the not near the building. We can't do it down those

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islands in the middle. But I I would leave the the any changes we have to make we can do later is what I'm getting at as a group and decide later the same. But I like the idea that we we have a goal of 30,000 at least to save. >> So let's leave it. I would like to leave

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it there and I won't touch anything and talk about anything until we get through the site approval which shows landscaping. There's requirements and it was very it was nice for me to meet for the first time the actual civil engineer Jim

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Develis. Okay. Who was going to make the presentation with John to the planning board. I'm not gonna I can't make that presentation. I I'm on the board with a vote. So they will make a presentation. >> Can you vote as a We we got a I got an opinion from

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council a long time ago exactly the status that I can vote. >> There's no conflict because I have no financial benefit or anything. So I'm sitting there as a neutral person voting on a project but I I can't be a presenter. So um that's the way to go.

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And so my preference now is as the town departments are looking at that and they're going to look at the landscape plan and they're going to look at these other things, they're going to agree that all this is designed correctly. But then later on if we decide look we think we could have a potential saving here. We literally would go back for a minor

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modification. >> Ask the amendment type process, >> a very tiny >> go back type thing and and then we would have a very solid case of saving money. >> Leave it. >> We'd be starting the standpoint where we had been approved though and then we starting from the standpoint that it's

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all approved. And the other the other thing we have to be careful of here, strangely enough, this goes everything is complicated. Nothing is simple. The MISA proc process requires that there be a slope. Now, John's

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architect and John put the clip on the vertical to to compensate potentially for the turtles, but it's actually a better solution if it's strictly uh not vertical granite curve, but it's just slope granite curve. So, that may even come up later on with Misa that all

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the curve might have to be sloped. That's what they want, surprisingly enough. So, let's leave it the way it is now. My recommendation, let it go through, keep the cost savings there as a way for us to look for that in the future. >> Would there be a um an amendment process to planning to say Misa's making this

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list? >> Well, the interesting thing, >> you're going to put it in the decision. I'm going to put it in the decision that you don't have site plan approval until Miser are in. >> Yep. >> So, we're going to get we're going to get

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>> a decision that's written up. We're gonna get a decision that's going to include the approval of Misha and Meipa for the final site plan review. Got it. >> And then that'll as soon as they come in and I I also am going to be sending that letter to the planning board to have

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them put it in the documents and they'll post it online with our documents. All our documents are posted online if anyone wants to see them online or under the planning board stuff. Um, so that's I like the idea of having a 30,000 savings, but I don't think we can

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identify that person. Anyone else has a comment? >> I'm I understand that and I'm in supportive of that. I guess I would like this committee to be able to weigh out at some point. Maybe it is not until

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after our next cost estimate comes in >> the the potential lever of going from the raised sidewalks >> right >> to just the flat >> right >> aspect. And keep in mind I I would like the raised sidewalks. So it's not like I

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don't want them. Um but I would like because that's clearly a much larger than $30,000 savings. So I would just like to have that number available in case it's something we want to do later. >> Yeah, it's it's very much worthwhile.

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But again, the problem for the town is that there is a liability issue that you need to think about. So don't let that leave. Um, we have a lot of problems with the elder drivers and we need to have the wheels stopped rather than going through where the walkway. The

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reason we don't have it in Wilberham because the walkway is going um parallel with the building. Nobody's walking along it. But here we're walking to the building. People are parking. It's extremely dangerous. That's all. >> I think we all agree with it

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conceptually. >> What's good? It's my understanding though that Wilberham um it was uh nxed by the person who was in charge of their um maintenance who were said it would be too hard to do the plow >> right yeah so they're willing to

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sacrifice elders over easy of ease of plowing you know 10 snow storms a year that's ridiculous the reason why we allowed it in Wilberham is because it's running parallel with the building nobody's walking along that even Now

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they now park across it and I think some people have seen the pictures that we sent that they're blocking people to walk. >> Do we know how many people in Wilberham have been seriously injured or killed in the parking lot? >> Nobody has. >> Well, because we the parking Listen, I

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want to You want me to send you information of what happens at schools when elder parents are driving their kids to school, their grandchildren, and they run over people? These folks run over people. The reason why we have and we don't have that problem in Wilberham

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because nobody's walking along the path there. It's parallel with the building. Here, if you leave your car 20 cars out, you walk down the center line safely. You don't you don't walk down the middle of the driveway. In Wilberham, they

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don't have that. So, that's why I follow up with what? Sorry that there's there's the playing with stuff is important. Okay. >> What John just said so there's a very important thing that happened here

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that's kind of above committee and the fact that we are applying for a waiver from the zoning regulations. Okay. And I have the document right here. It's online as well. This is this is the the

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document that I put together and we submitted pretty amazing piece of work. The long and the short of it is that we were given the opportunity to go for a waiver because parking lots in front of the building are not allowed in the

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town of under commercial projects. And the whole concept of the waiver which took a got legal advice on is designed around safety. So even what John just said in about the raised walks will get us through the

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process of the waiver request which has to be voted on. Okay? Because I can read you the the the waiver request if you want but the long and the short of it is it's all about difference between the senior community and regular commercial buildings and that's the reason for the

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backlot in front of the building. So I won't read all the language, okay? Just about the sections and all that. The new but I'll read you what the the response the paragraph is. It was put together by Katie. Pretty much the new senior center is not designed to serve the general

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public. It is designed to serve the specific needs of older adults. The proportion of disabled, handicapped, and able-bodied users is not the same as the general public. Complying with the existing zoning would recate a safety hardship for older adults, requiring 85%

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of the parking lot to be in the rear of the building requires older adults up to 40% of whom have mobility related disabilities per the CDC to walk long distances and navigate around the building which is particularly challenging in employment weather placing. So the requirement is that you

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can't have more than 15% of the parking in front of a building. That's the requirement. Okay, we're waving trying to wave that goes on to say placing the parking lot in front minimizes the distance to the primary entrance significantly reducing the risk of falls

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allows older adult specific safety features of the parking lot to function as designed which we just said. The parking lot design in front of the building is based on oneway traffic through the parking lot to reduce accidents. Rearbased parking could necessit necessitate two-way traffic around the building and

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through the narrow sides of the lot. Two-way traffic is discouraged in senior center design for safety. Preliminary meetings with the FI department, police department yielded a blue traffic pattern in a front-facing parking lot. Complying with zoning creates a greater risk of harm for older adult population.

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So, we're looking for to get a five to zero vote on that section. So, that's why I'm saying it's a little early for us to speak anything. >> So, I hear I hear that and that's an important caveat. Um, so

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>> Right. Right. So, there's three people who have talked a lot. How about the rest of of the committee? >> Y >> is the rest of the committee comfortable with and I I'm I'm summarizing. If this

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summary is not correct, let me know that we want the $30,000 worth of parking lot savings. right now. It is in the advantage of the project going through the planning board process

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to not make a further decision upon it until later. And if and unless we had a cost estimate that came back that required substantial

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additional VE at a later time. Does that resonate with everybody else? Start with Dennis. >> I I it's I I understand John's point and I

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am I understand that there's safety component to wanting the raised. It's just been my general observation of parking lots and etc. that when people exit their car, they will take a lefthand turn, walk into the parking lot

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and then proceed to their destination. They will not close the door, move towards the front of the car, hop up on a sidewalk. And in fact, it's been my observation that seniors as a general group prefer walking as much as possible on flat surfaces and that step up onto

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the curbing, etc., etc. There's frequently a place where falls occur. So >> yeah, that's true. >> Um, so all that being said, and I would be anxious to hear what the rest of the committee feels or I don't know if we can get drill down into how much of a

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safety risk it as opposed to the general u stipulation that it is a safety risk. >> Okay, Linda. >> So I agree with what Dennis said said. However, I don't think we're the ones to judge. There's got to be safety studies

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out there because when you start researching, most accidents happen in parking lots from backing up. I understand the trip hazard. Um, but does it have to be raised? Can and and my other thing is if people are driving too fast, is that really going to stop them?

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When people come in pulling in and hit a curb, it's usually because they're going too fast. So, is that really going to be the safety? Um, originally I'm I'm was hesitant to take it out for safety purposes, but again I Who's the safety person? I think we really need a

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someone to determine or, you know, somebody who's has experience in that. >> John, he's on the other line, but John say he's a safety. I think it I think it would be nice to see some of the safety

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information that he's compiled that makes him want to design the parking lots that way. I think that's a reasonable ask. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um Dave, >> um catch 22. I mean, if we take the raised sidewalk out, you're still going

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to have to put a curve. you're going to incur an additional expense with curb stops for the the vehicles and then now you're going to have a maintenance issue where every time somebody hits one, you got to go back out and reset it, put the new pins, fix it, it's going to be when you when you're trying to plow a

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driveway, it it's tougher for the the plow drivers. Whereas if you've got the raised walkway, there's nothing there. They can plow right down along the side of it and snow blow it out. makes makes the maintenance aspect of it easier for the guy that's

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got to do it. So, you kind of you take you take the raised walkway out, you still have to put a curb stop. You have still have to put something to stop the vehicle and you still have a maintenance issue. Whereas, if you leave the raised walkway

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now, I I go down with the snowblower, I blow it out, the plow guy comes by, he plows it out of the way. You make my You make my life easier in the winter time when I'm trying to keep the the parking lot clearer because it's easier now. I come down, I salt it, it's nice and

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clear, and that might draw people to drive walk up it towards the building as opposed to walking in the the parking lot. >> But was it determined that if we didn't do the raised bed, there would be a curb stop or was it going to just be an open

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walkway field? Well, the way we drafted it at our last meeting was that we wanted to see the numbers um on what each of those options would save us. So, um

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so we I I I don't settle, but I do see u Ken's point about waiting to make that decision until after we've gone through the planning board process because we've already submitted. Um, but that it's a fair point. It's a fair question. Fine.

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>> Um, you know, I'm tending to sort of go with the raised curbing and I'm just looking at the number $30,000. It doesn't seem like, you know, I it doesn't seem like substantial amount of savings for safety, you know, and I'm

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going to play devil's advocate here. So, you know, are there other savings like changing and I know, you know, approval probably has already been done and and all, but you know, could there be additional savings in the type of

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um substance that is used for the actual parking lot, you know, >> just to clarify that the $30,000 really doesn't have anything to do with the sidewalk discussion. It's being held at $30,000 to reflect changes in granite

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curving on the outside edges of the parking lot. So that's that's why they're carrying 30 >> or just the outside >> just those outside edges and then >> the awaiting whether or not we make the

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decision about the sidewalks. >> Can we eliminate all the granite all together and just go with an asphalt farm? >> I think He said that that was not desirable uh for plowing, but that in some areas he could, which I think is

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what $30,000 reflects >> the areas where the said it would be okay to remove the granite from >> and go with asphalt. >> Nothing off the driveway. >> It'll be a slope grant. >> Yeah. I

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>> It's not my turn. I'm sorry. I mean, personally, like I, you know, I'm all for safety and I I'm I'm just sort of confused because like I've been in different parking lots and I understand the raised aspect. Um

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I I I just don't have enough information like like Linda said, it's like where are the studies? Like I you know, I've been to Belmont. Belmont, I don't think has raised. You just drive in and they're marked and you park. >> Oh, they do have I designed Belmont.

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>> They do have they do have raised. >> Not not everywhere though. >> Not everywhere. >> I was the architect on that. >> I know you. >> Fortunately, there they chose not not granite. They chose concrete which has been totally beaten to death by the

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plows. Just like what would happen with asphalt. It does not hold up. Granite's there forever. Slope granite, if it's done right, will last just as long as regular granite. Um, and if you really want to see uh an example of how this

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works, go out and visit Long Meadow. They have a very they have a 200 person parking lot and they have raised walkways and you can talk to the users there. They're extremely positive about it. Um, you could call the the

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administrator or I can give you some names to talk to. But to give you an idea, we visited Hansen years ago. That's that's their senior center. They had they did not have any raised areas at all. And all their light poles that were not protected were laying down by

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the side of the parking lot because they had been hit by seniors and knocked the light poles down. on it. If >> so, Johnny, when you had to step off um the call there for just a second, um one of the committee members requested um

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could you share some of the traffic and safety data that you've used in order to come to that conclusion that that um >> right years of designing these and the ones that we've not used um raised walkways,

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they've either damaged light poles, damaged cars in the town of um North Andover the senior center was behind the the town um hall. Uh the town hall uh employees stopped parking in the parking lot because of all the damage to their

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cars by not having uh safety areas for the seniors to drive through. That's why we do our lots wider, our parking areas wider with double lines because we don't see as well. So, I'll put that together for you. I'd be happy to. >> Yeah, that would be

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>> a lot of images, too. And and that could actually come in handy for the planning board presentation as well to have a concise packet of that. >> We'll get enough. >> Well, I I understand, but it it wouldn't hurt. But it would satisfy the questions

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that the committee this committee has >> for this committee >> for this committee. And then, you know, if substantiating material was needed, you know, we could refer to it. That's important. Okay. All right. >> Madam Chair, >> I'm sorry.

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But based on what Ken said earlier, it's already been presented to the zoning. So I don't think right now we're in we we should go on his recommendations, keep it as it is. We >> That was the question that I went around the table. Um is everybody okay with putting off this decision?

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>> Yes. >> Knowing that if we had dire financial straits after the ne next cost estimate, we could come back and revisit it. But it makes sense to move forward with it as it is right now knowing we can realize $30,000 in VE but not more than

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30,000 until a later date. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. So yes for everybody. Okay. >> My final recommendation on this subject is is we put it on the agenda. I bring the site plans here to the table and we look at the site plans together and we

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understand what we're talking about. Not just the raised walkways, but the landscaping, the whole all those plans. Put them right here and we just look at it together. That's the way we should do different so we get a clear understanding. So when you when you take out an island, you might be taking out a

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tree, which was not going to work. >> Okay. Um I think that's a great idea. So do we want to move on to the kitchen? Yes. >> And then vote. You can vote on the VE items as a whole because I think we need a vote for these when we're

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>> I think it would be better to have a vote. Okay, so on to the kitchen. So or the the building electrification and the kitchen are kind of inshed together. Um, at our last meeting we talked about um an interest in having the kitchen be all

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electric, but the committee said you guys were unclear what the costs were related to that. And so we had asked um uh John and Vert.Ex to come back with some more information about because

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there's a couple of moving parts on there. So do either of you have anything to add to that? Yeah, I um I'm not leaving. I am waiting. Um yes, I I I I reached out to

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the contractor who did the commercial kitchen in Wilberham, um Kitridge. They also came to Long Meadow to correct the uh work that was done there by a different installer who didn't get it done right. Um, and I gave

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them the drawing that David uh was was wanting to have the the and I by the way the drawing they have is a gas stove. They didn't feel that a gas stove would be much different than um than an induction electric one would be in terms

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of cost. But the kitchen itself laid out um with the walk-in cooler, the two reachins, the very large the extra-l large um range. Um our estimate is 175,000 for the

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equipment and as designed right now there his estimate and he hasn't spent a lot of time on it yet. He's going to work on it more and we can work with Dave on this. his estimates between 250 and 300,000

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for the um the the new design over the estimate that we had originally. I believe that um 300 is a little on the extreme side. I think it's probably more like 250 to 275, which is about where I

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was estimating it before. It's about 75 to $100,000 more. Um there and we talked a little bit about this with Katie and Dave that some of this might go under FF&E because they're freestanding items. I asked them to estimate it exactly as

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laid out and I think Dave you've seen that plan. It has the complete list of the equipment. Um uh and um right now his his number he called me today. Uh I really pressed him saying I just need a number to talk

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about 250 to 300,000 over our estimate of 175. Um, and I think his 300 number is a little on, you know, maybe it's more like 275, but I felt that um, that right now we we

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have a somewhere between 50 and $100,000 difference between the kitchen that we saw in Wilberham in the kitchen that Dave feels we should have for making food from scratch, uh, lunches and dinners. So, that's where we are in

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that. I think the real issue isn't whether it's gas or the real issue is the electrical side of it. It's caused a lot of consternation on the part of our electrical engineer and our MEP guys and they've been working very hard to keep

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the service at 1,000 amps versus 12-,300 amps. They're coming in at 480 277. We've added three transformers inside the building to transform it down to 110

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220 and um right now and then we also took out all of the gas. So the hot water heater is all electric. The stove would be an induction and the reheat for the makeup air to the hood would be

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changed from gas to um um electric or heat pump. I'm not sure how he's doing that. And they've redesigned a lot of the uh they've looked at this. They haven't priced it all out yet, but they've redesigned a lot of the um

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equipment so that we could size down the service. the service right now, and I think Ken's going to add some information to this. Uh the service right now with the potential of the 10 extra um charging stations down in the future

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puts us over um the um average that would require the the electric room to be enlarged and have double doors and a lot of other safety issues. And we're working on that right now. But I wanted to kind of get that out in front of you

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today because all this work has stopped pending um uh whether we're all electric or whether we're going to use gas. So um am I am I still being heard? >> Yep. Yep. You can still Sorry. The the

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owl just keeps going in and out, but we can still hear you. You can stop looking at my face in just a second. The >> You look great. You look great. So I the issue is that when we go back to the cost estimator, I either go all electric

403
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or we go with gas. Um I'm not going to help you make that decision. I think that's a committee decision. It's um it does lend itself to higher operating costs. Um certainly

404
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over the near term, I don't know where propane is going to go, you know, four, five, six years from now, but I do know right now that propane is a less expensive than electricity is in in in

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um in Massachusetts. Um, but having said that, I think it's a decision that between Dave and the committee and our team and the OPM team need to make in concert.

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So, that's kind of the take. >> And you said you had something you like to add to that. >> Okay. So, I spent an awful lot of time on this the last few weeks with John and estimators and looking up equipment and whatnot.

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And I was kind of the person who brought forward the idea of the national grid rebates and how attractive it was and whatnot. But I had completely changed my mind. So I'm going to try to influence the committee to go back to the original design which was not including the full

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electrification. I'm not talking about the kitchen. I'm breaking it into two pieces. It's two pieces thing. So the anticipated change in in the service of the building, the size of the like, all this stuff that could impact our risk in

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the future is I think over over um it's just too complicated for the 81,000 or 70,000 or whatever potential we might get. I think we're better off going with the original design which has the gas in

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place for four critical pieces. cooking the outside air unit, the fireplace, the hot water heater, and just offset the idea of uh trying to determine if we can get rebate from

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National Grid and whatever that paperwork is by continuing to look at other ways we can save. I just think I'd rather dig into another aspect of the the project instead of trying to make all these changes that involve the engineering.

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And I'm listening to John on this one. I think we're better off sticking to the basic design of the building, the efficiencies that it already has and not trying to redesign the whole concept around the electrification. So that's my electrification point. >> Okay. Other opinions.

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>> So John, can I ask did you did your in in order to make the change the electrical changes necessary in the kitchen? Did did the your electrical engineer have to redesign the whole building? Have they said that it would

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take you know more than a thousand amps or you don't know what the >> It's currently right now more than a thousand amps which complicates the electrical room. Um but understand that right now it's not

415
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not the the kitchen's not driving this. It's gas. Okay. hot water heater. Um, stove could be either electric or the stove being electric has to be 480 277.

416
01:53:01.360 --> 01:53:18.480
And and and one of the problems for for Dave is that I think you were looking for 10 burners on the gas and then when we went electric, the most we can get is six on on the Garland or the Italian. I can't remember the Italian name. this

417
01:53:18.480 --> 01:53:36.880
tricky name. We can get six burners or induction areas. Um, on the gas stove, we can get we can get 10 pretty easily on the Garh Garland or one of the similar ones. But right now, we originally designed hot

418
01:53:36.880 --> 01:53:53.119
water heater, gas, stove, gas, um, uh, the heating system, makeup, >> makeup air for the hood, gas, and then we have a gas fireplace as a as a an amenity, >> um, which can be turned on or not turned

419
01:53:53.119 --> 01:54:10.400
on. It doesn't matter. So, that's where we are now. I've we've caused a lot of consternation with the engineers. They have both designs going right now. And um uh and I'm hoping that today a decision is made so we can stick with

420
01:54:10.400 --> 01:54:26.480
one because I I got to get those drawings complete. Right now our electrical drawings and some of our mechanical drawings are not complete because we've been holding it on this decision. So my my question would be let's say this committee decides they

421
01:54:26.480 --> 01:54:43.360
want to go all electric and the level of service needs to be increased to accommodate the double door electrical room and all those other things. How much does that add to the project?

422
01:54:43.360 --> 01:54:59.840
That's I think the the information that this committee is asking for. >> I can't give you a hard number, but it's a lot. Uh she's very my engineer, my electrical engineer. Um we're adding we're now putting a bunch of transformers in the building which we

423
01:54:59.840 --> 01:55:16.480
didn't have before. The electric room she has not this is the first building of this small size that she has to do this special electric room. Um I'm not familiar with that kind of a room but it's over,200

424
01:55:16.480 --> 01:55:32.400
amps. So, um I think I can't remember what the the problem is, but she's explained it to me. I can certainly find out more about it, but all electric is really I >> Okay. So, >> so I I feel like but I feel like

425
01:55:32.400 --> 01:55:48.239
>> it's a big deal. It's a big deal. >> I don't know what the number is. >> Right. So, I I hear that and I acknowledge what you're saying. I I think what the committee expressed during their last meeting is that they wanted to make this decision both from a

426
01:55:48.239 --> 01:56:04.320
conceptual and a financial perspective. So, you know, this is a decision that probably should have been made earlier in the process, but had we made it earlier in the process, your electrical engineer would have got need to go through this process. So, them needing

427
01:56:04.320 --> 01:56:20.560
to do it now isn't like terribly concerning to me. It's >> Well, no. You're not paying for it, are you? >> What? >> This redesign is a big deal. >> It's very expensive. >> I I understand that. I'm not discounting that. But

428
01:56:20.560 --> 01:56:36.560
>> it's because it's a redesign versus the initial design, right? So, I think the committee is looking for >> is the attempt to chase $75,000 worth of rebates. Is it

429
01:56:36.560 --> 01:56:52.719
have we now gone very much lopsided? Because changes in the kitchen are one piece, but changes to the electrical are the other. And I think that's what the committee was asking. We were talking about it conceptually at the last meeting, but they were saying they could not make a decision conceptually. They

430
01:56:52.719 --> 01:57:08.400
needed to know some financial information, too. Am I >> I can I can assure you that that this this change exceeds your rebate. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's that's all I to get the kitchen that Dave wants. >> That's all I need to know.

431
01:57:08.400 --> 01:57:23.599
>> Okay. >> But we'd like to get the kitchen that Dave wants. At least make every effort. >> So, just a a couple of thoughts. One, a question for Dave is >> given that the the the induction stove

432
01:57:23.599 --> 01:57:38.239
would be limited to six burners evidently and the gas stove. How much >> you'd have to do two four burner stoves, >> right? >> That would be the problem. So, how much of a how much of a benefit to the daily operations is it to have 10 available

433
01:57:38.239 --> 01:57:56.400
burners? And how does it make it the process easier for you? It h it has it has more to do with >> the benefit when you're doing a large function because when you're using a a >> picture a a 10 gallon pot on your stove,

434
01:57:56.400 --> 01:58:13.280
>> it takes like a burner and a half >> to to sit there for space. So when you're cooking some you can only get three on a 10 burner stove, you can only get three large pots on there at a time to work. >> That's it. So like if you were doing

435
01:58:13.280 --> 01:58:28.400
like a corn beef and cabbage dinner, you'd need >> you can get a 10 burner gas one easily. >> A 10 burner gas and you put one here, one there, one there. Then you can sneak smaller pans in the back if you needed to.

436
01:58:28.400 --> 01:58:43.520
>> So if it were a six burner or electric, you would that would be problematic or difficult to manage. >> Well, it's not necessarily problematic. It just means you have to adjust how you're doing. So now you'd have to cook

437
01:58:43.520 --> 01:59:01.199
half of it now, keep it warm, then cook the other half and then put it together. >> Workflow advantages to having the larger. >> Yes, it's definite work. It's definitely a definite workflow advantage to have >> a 10 burner. >> The size that you're talking about meals

438
01:59:01.199 --> 01:59:17.679
are we're only going to be doing maybe once a month, right? That's not the size that we'll be doing on a daily basis. Right. >> Right. I'm I'm a little concerned because we're doing all this value engineering and cutting corners everywhere, but it seems like we've got,

439
01:59:17.679 --> 01:59:35.520
>> you know, the um Cadillac of >> Oh, you didn't say Tsh Mahal. Come on. >> The Cadillac of >> Cadillac. >> To be fair about it for Dave, just let me interject. I believe we can get a lot

440
01:59:35.520 --> 01:59:52.960
of the kitchen that Dave needs, but we don't have to buy it all at once. A lot of this stuff is counter height or or or on stands. The the big walk-in refrigeration unit, we've now created the space for it. We

441
01:59:52.960 --> 02:00:09.360
don't need to put it in right now. I mean, he's got two really good refrigerators and a small freezer. Um I you know we could get started that way and maybe in a year we have everything set up to expand that you know um if we

442
02:00:09.360 --> 02:00:26.000
get the basic stuff now it's going to make it a capital expenditure which means we're going to have to go back to the capital planning board. We're going to have to all have to be there fund raise that refrigerator. You you can fund raise that. It's probably six. What

443
02:00:26.000 --> 02:00:42.880
we really can't do is change the the the range. He needs a double oven and at least eight if not 10 burners. That's not something you're going to flip out down the road. We need we need to put that in there. Now, um

444
02:00:42.880 --> 02:00:59.840
>> can I redirect us a little bit to before we get into the real specifics of the kitchen, right? like can we can we put the electrification of the building to rest?

445
02:00:59.840 --> 02:01:16.480
>> So, so I haven't again some members talk more than others. So can we go through and talk about whether and in in light of the the fact that going all electric is going to from a building

446
02:01:16.480 --> 02:01:32.560
design perspective is going to greatly exceed the cost of the rebate we would get back. Is everybody comfortable with not going that route? >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. Yes. Yes.

447
02:01:32.560 --> 02:01:49.440
>> You know you are. Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Okay. All right. Thank you. Okay. So then then we don't have to bring that part back again. So if John, are you saying that we could fund raise for the walk-in or are you talking

448
02:01:49.440 --> 02:02:05.040
about funding fundraising for the >> walk-in? The walk-in can be assembled any time. It's kind of like the way we talked about the the movable partitions. We have all the infrastructure in place and somebody donates $10,000

449
02:02:05.040 --> 02:02:20.719
and you put the walk-in even before the building opens. I mean, you can you can designate the walk-in refrigerator as a fundraising item. >> I don't believe you won't get it. I really believe that you will get the walk-in. We've now created the space for

450
02:02:20.719 --> 02:02:36.480
it. Um, and it's not a heavy electric user. >> So, yeah. for you Katie to John. >> John, are you telling the committee that the design that you guys have come forth

451
02:02:36.480 --> 02:02:54.639
separately Dave and so forth that you'll accommodate the electrical, HVAC, whatever else we need, piping, drainage, whatever needs to be done for all those components in the in the drawings that we have when we finish the CD. Well,

452
02:02:54.639 --> 02:03:10.880
>> piece in later. You don't have to accommodate it for electrical changes or hood changes or anything else. >> No, we'll we'll we'll terminate a power line for the future refrigeration walk-in unit, but I believe you'll get it in the final design. We just don't

453
02:03:10.880 --> 02:03:27.840
need to put it in the bid. We could probably >> just I'm trying to make sure that Dave everyone's comfortable with the fact that if we whatever the kitchen we decide on even if we do something later it it's got the right mechanical and electrical ready to go.

454
02:03:27.840 --> 02:03:44.960
>> Well, the real issue for Dave is that he need he would like to have a double oven and 10 burners. And those 10 burners, by the way, you can flip off four of them, put a grill there, you know, if you want a grill, do a pancake supper or something. So that's the one item that

455
02:03:44.960 --> 02:04:01.199
you're just not going to change. So if we get that uh in the base bid, which is a little bit more than what we were carrying, and then a lot of these I I think we just I I know I do talked a little bit with Ka Dave and Katie. A lot

456
02:04:01.199 --> 02:04:17.840
of the things he needs are are are loose items. They're not built in. We need outlets. We need power for them, but we don't need um you know, we're not creating we're not creating a situation where you can't

457
02:04:17.840 --> 02:04:32.880
put them in, >> right? I I think Ken's question was relative to the walk-in though. >> No, it's relative to the >> Well, the walk-in is now a big deal. We have the space already. We've always had it. We designed a walk-in that fits it. It's a prefab item. You you come in,

458
02:04:32.880 --> 02:04:49.920
assemble it, and plug it in. Done. But the the the blocking he's talking about the mechanical equipment just mounted on top of the walk-in. It's not vented outside. >> Usually we usually will mount it outside with the with >> You can't vent it outside, but a lot of times they just put the compressor on

459
02:04:49.920 --> 02:05:04.560
the top. The problem >> it just creates heat inside. >> We have an area right now. We have an area right now for H for the heat pump system. It's a It's a enclosed fenced end area and we just dropped that unit

460
02:05:04.560 --> 02:05:22.840
right there and it it works but we can wherever there will be room for it. We have plenty of ceiling height. >> Let's go back to change. >> Sorry. >> We want we want an external condenser, the evaporator some

461
02:05:23.920 --> 02:05:41.199
>> I just want I want you to have everything you need mechanically and electrically to >> Right. Yeah. I I agree. That's what I'm saying. Mechanically and electrically, we want to make sure that it's all in place for the end kitchen we would like to have. >> Y >> Okay. All right. So, just as a point of

462
02:05:41.199 --> 02:05:59.760
clarification, John, earlier you were saying, you know, 75 to $100,000 more and Vert.Ex is carrying 50,000. >> In number is four in. >> Okay. So, That was a number we had early

463
02:05:59.760 --> 02:06:15.679
on before I gave it to Kitridge. >> So the 50,000 appeared >> discussion you had at the workings >> and then and then the 75 to 100,000 that John >> there's a new number. Yeah, that's from Kitridge. That's a new number from

464
02:06:15.679 --> 02:06:31.679
Kitridge today. I got it I got it this afternoon at around two o'clock and I have not spent a lot of time on it. It's just that he gave me um uh 250 to 300,000. I really kind of felt his

465
02:06:31.679 --> 02:06:47.760
300,000 was a bit extreme. And I I'm not I I believe we'll do better than that. >> Including that 300,000 >> everything works. >> Yeah. The whole kitchen, including some

466
02:06:47.760 --> 02:07:05.920
some of the new stuff I gave him. He carried a 10burner stove with double ovens and I said, "Well, what if it's electric?" He said, "It wouldn't make much difference except for power, of course." So, you could get the 10urner gas with double ovens. Um, and I think

467
02:07:05.920 --> 02:07:21.040
right now the 175,000, we would be adding one. We already bought one refrigerator, right? U Katie has it right now. We'd buy one more which has always been in that 175,000.

468
02:07:21.040 --> 02:07:41.199
We'd buy a small freezer which is Yeah, it's it's in that 175. So, right now we'd be paying additional money for the size of the stove and maybe the hood might get bigger. I I don't know 10 burners versus I I think we had eight. I

469
02:07:41.199 --> 02:07:56.320
can't imagine two burners are going to make a big difference in the hood. I can ask you that. Go ahead. Sorry, John. >> Can I ask? So, the 50,000 additional that you had in the ES that was added into the estimate was for

470
02:07:56.320 --> 02:08:12.079
days modifications to the original design, but it did not assume electrification. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And also, is is that 50,000 number accurate or do we need to

471
02:08:12.079 --> 02:08:26.800
>> kick that up a notch? >> Yeah. John saying it's 75 to 100. >> No, it's 75 to 100. >> Well, that's with everything. But we're talking I I don't think we're going to bid this thing. I We could bid it. We can make the the refrigeration unit and

472
02:08:26.800 --> 02:08:44.880
add alternate. But I right now it's a prefab thing. I mean, you can drop it in six weeks after the center opens if you have somebody give you the money. I mean, it's not a big deal. >> Um, I would not I would leave that 50,000. Now, if we decide that we're not

473
02:08:44.880 --> 02:09:01.440
going to electrify the kitchen and we'll do the stove first, include that with one one additional refrigerator, which we're counting. I think we're counting we had one one reach-in refrigerator, double door, and one freezer. Now, we're

474
02:09:01.440 --> 02:09:18.560
we already have one, so now we'll be adding one more. So, it it'd be stay stay about the same plus the stove. So I mean the the fact that we let go of electrification is a big deal

475
02:09:18.560 --> 02:09:36.000
>> for us and I think we'll try and make the kitchen work. >> Good. >> Can I ask a related question to you guys? So the 150 for the kitchen equipment food service equipment it says food I'm looking at fogy that's it's in our original

476
02:09:36.000 --> 02:09:53.440
>> 175 for building number. Yeah, it's 175. >> I'm looking at 150. >> He's seeing 150. >> You're right. >> My estimate that I have probably has 175. >> The point is it's in the total cost of the building. It's not It's not in the separate list. >> It's January 30.

477
02:09:53.440 --> 02:10:09.119
>> It's not in that. Correct. >> It's within >> I did send Katie over today. I know we're talking about two different things, but we sent over Littleton's kitchen package. >> Oh, okay. >> And how much it cost is about 180 grand is what we had in there. It does not

478
02:10:09.119 --> 02:10:24.880
include general conditions and everything of overhead that that VC puts on top. It's hard to extrapolate, but I did send >> Ryan, would you send that to me, please? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> What did they have for the top of your

479
02:10:24.880 --> 02:10:49.520
head? You know, they had equipment. Do they have a mixer? They have No, I don't believe they had a mixer. You had a 48 inch electric brick range. It's a double bottom

480
02:10:49.520 --> 02:11:16.079
that >> I can send this around too. >> On the kitchen. >> We actually have four ovens in this kitchen right now. We have We had three, but we added one under Dave. But we have two vertical what they call pizza ovens,

481
02:11:16.079 --> 02:11:32.960
but they're actually ovens. They're warming ovens. You can cook in them. Those are electric >> convection. You got two two blocks of convection. >> Yeah. Yeah. Stacked. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So we haven't the uh

482
02:11:32.960 --> 02:11:48.400
>> is there is there any other item in your in this big budget around the kitchen equipment and all appliances and we don't have separate any separate items on the >> no >> original budget. It's all foli budget. >> Yep. Inclus of all the MEPs that come

483
02:11:48.400 --> 02:12:03.679
with it isn't part of is included in budget >> because in Fog's budget the appliances are not in the contract. Well, I don't know what he considers appliances, you know. Not sure what size that is. It's definitely >> the stove and blotchet ovens are in

484
02:12:03.679 --> 02:12:20.079
there, but the added and the ice maker is in there, but Dave's got a mixer. He's got a couple of other, you know, counter. >> Yeah, those are those are not in that budget. And and those are easy, you

485
02:12:20.079 --> 02:12:36.000
know, they could be covered in FF and E. They're loose items. Uh it's best that you don't have the contractor supply them anyhow because we're going to be doing all kinds of markups on them balancing it later in the job. Yeah. To try to figure out if I need

486
02:12:36.000 --> 02:12:51.760
>> to John's point there's less markup if you're >> procuring. So if it's not connected to the building, >> but the electrical will be will accommodate everything that >> Yes. >> They're mostly 120 outlets. Maybe the mixer might take >> probably a 220.

487
02:12:51.760 --> 02:13:08.560
>> Yeah. has replacing the right question. >> Okay. So, >> for the sake of time, um, is everybody comfortable with where we are on the on the kitchen because we we do need to vote need to do an official

488
02:13:08.560 --> 02:13:24.880
vote on the electrification and an official vote to table the the parking lot discussion. That was on the agenda. I'll make a I'll make a motion that we after thorough investigation the committee found that building electrification for the rebate for

489
02:13:24.880 --> 02:13:43.280
national grid was not offset by savings in building construction and therefore we decided not to go full electrification for the project. >> Okay. All right. All in favor? >> All opposed.

490
02:13:43.280 --> 02:13:58.960
Right. Sorry. The chair said I too. So, it passes. Okay. All right. And then um can I get a motion to um accept the current VE savings of $30,000

491
02:13:58.960 --> 02:14:14.719
on uh the parking lot but to keep the someone can reword this but to keep the original parking lot sidewalks as specified in the site plan and submitted to the

492
02:14:14.719 --> 02:14:30.719
planning board. Second. >> Okay. I guess I just made it. All right. >> Okay. All right. All in favor? >> Okay. Chair says I. Any oppose? >> All right. Wonderful. Thank you guys.

493
02:14:30.719 --> 02:14:47.360
Okay. So, so it sounds to me like, and I'm sorry, I'm I'm bouncing around. It sounds to me like based on the kitchen that there there's one point of view that it might be a lot to spend at the time that we're also

494
02:14:47.360 --> 02:15:04.719
value engineering elsewhere and then some opinions that this could be the impact of it could be mitigated by moving some of the categories into fundraising or into FF and E. Um

495
02:15:04.719 --> 02:15:19.920
but that the base amount of things isn't making sure the electrical plumbing and >> any mechanical >> any mechanicals >> and electric >> um would be in place wouldn't substantively add to the kitchen. Am I summarizing that

496
02:15:19.920 --> 02:15:35.920
>> fairly? Okay. Is everyone comfortable with that? So, >> so, so we have based on the >> poverty >> January of 2026 numbers from their estimate, we we have

497
02:15:35.920 --> 02:15:53.520
a a cost of the kitchen or estimated cost of kitchen. It is estimated that given given Dave's request and given John's acknowledgement of what is or is not doable, we anticipate

498
02:15:53.520 --> 02:16:11.840
an additional expense on top of that of approximately 7. if it was all rolled into the base bid. But but John is saying it doesn't have to be that much because we could pull some of it out of the base bid and put

499
02:16:11.840 --> 02:16:29.040
it into FFN and or hope to get some of it via fundraising or an adult who supposed. >> Yeah. The thinking there is that putting it in FFA makes it so that you can procure it

500
02:16:29.040 --> 02:16:47.120
directly without incurring a GC mark off the not attached to it's something that we could potentiate into >> Matt is right on that because when you start adding up all the little percentage increases due to the general

501
02:16:47.120 --> 02:17:09.040
contract insurance bond u markup uh profit and overhead head. You do much better buying that as an item and having it assembled by the the supplier outside of the contract. >> Okay. Thanks for that.

502
02:17:09.040 --> 02:17:25.920
>> All right. If there's nothing else, we can move on to uh public input. >> Wait a minute. >> Yeah. >> Do we have a vote on that kitchen thing at all? Uh I guess we could we don't

503
02:17:25.920 --> 02:17:41.519
>> is not specifically identified under agenda. >> Yeah. So I don't think you can talk about >> Yeah, I guess that's true. We can it was part of the building electrification discussion. Right. It should have been it should have been its own line item, but I don't know that it requires

504
02:17:41.519 --> 02:17:57.359
the a vote >> at this point because it's not for inclusion in the de list which >> Yeah. Okay. >> Uh, wait. Can I Sorry. I just have one question to John. Did Did the kitchen

505
02:17:57.359 --> 02:18:13.120
get redesigned in the drawings to accommodate what is was what was asked for. >> We have two We have two complete designs for the kitchen. >> The original design and the and now

506
02:18:13.120 --> 02:18:28.160
Dave's design. And >> I think I missed that part. >> I can send that back out. Do you want me to send that back out to the group? I'll do that. >> Yeah, I think that would be great. Yep. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, the original I'll send you the

507
02:18:28.160 --> 02:18:43.840
the full set of drawings that has the original kitchen which is very similar to the Wilberham kitchen, right? And then there was a one-page edition for the kitchen. >> So, does the fory bid from 2026 >> is that off the original design or off

508
02:18:43.840 --> 02:19:02.639
of the second? original. Is it the original? Yeah. >> Fogert's not seen the new design. Hitridge has, but not Fogerty. >> Uh, anything else before I take a motion to >> Oh, gosh. >> Pay the bills.

509
02:19:02.639 --> 02:19:18.399
>> Got to pay the bills, right? Um, all right. So I will let you guys talk about uh for period ending March 31st we have a few bills to take care of and then I will go through them and then I have one

510
02:19:18.399 --> 02:19:33.679
thing I want to bring your attention to that we're working on currently um for month ending in March you have um invoice for vertex our monthly sum of 20,448

511
02:19:33.679 --> 02:19:52.000
architecture for construction documents at 70,78 86 David E. Ross land survey. This was something that uh additional work that was done on the survey for $3,549. >> That was the final bill for the

512
02:19:52.000 --> 02:20:08.479
>> correct. And then we had >> for the approval not required plan. >> I see. >> We had five invoices that came from Goddard. Um as you remember, we voted to approve their their all of their additional tasks and they've started billing against some of them. uh some of which are complete, some of which are

513
02:20:08.479 --> 02:20:30.479
partials uh that we've taken with reviewed with Dan. Uh the total for Goddard is the $12,640 for a total of $107,42324 uh for the month of March. I just do want to bring attention the backup is there, but if you go to page

514
02:20:30.479 --> 02:20:46.319
one, two, three, four, five, six, I think it's nine. It's our budget status report. >> Yeah. >> It shows you what we spent to date, what we have left to spend, and what's available currently for us right now based upon um what the changes we've

515
02:20:46.319 --> 02:21:02.800
made is we've brought this budget. I know we we've done a couple different iterations. What we've done here is brought this right back to the budget on what we did for town meeting. I think this is the clearest way that we can do it. We're showing you other documents of our living budget as things move from one step to the other. But for our

516
02:21:02.800 --> 02:21:17.680
financials and what budget we're working from is off of the approved budget that we did at town meeting. The one line item that I wanted to bring your attention to is line item 20.85. It's almost exactly halfway down the

517
02:21:17.680 --> 02:21:35.520
page. That's for our permits and approvals. And if you can see, we have we've we've blown that budget out by the tune of over $50,000 at this point. And there's a reason for it. What we did is we assigned a lot of the pre work before

518
02:21:35.520 --> 02:21:51.680
Vert.Ex's Texas's involvement that was done through UDAG and through um initial ARPA funds that that that original uh we'll call it Kickstarter that was here for this project.

519
02:21:51.680 --> 02:22:08.399
A lot of that we lumped into what we just called permits and approvals. At this point our budget when we went to town meeting was 60 grand was what we were told is what MEEPA and MISA was going to be. And so what we need to do at this point is that overage of 52

520
02:22:08.399 --> 02:22:23.280
grand, we're going to need to recalibrate our budget and get that 52 from somewhere else now at this point. And so >> I did not want to do any budget transfers or show you that we took it out of another bucket. I wanted to show

521
02:22:23.280 --> 02:22:39.520
you that overrun as we're continuing the exercise as a VE and where we stand. Um ultimately if you look at the very bottom right column that shows you what you have still available with our figures

522
02:22:39.520 --> 02:22:56.080
um to spend based upon the vote at town meeting. So we have spent as a project team just over $1.1 million. I'm sorry. We've committed uh

523
02:22:56.080 --> 02:23:12.600
excuse me. Yes, we've paid um we've committed just over just under 2.2 million. We've spent about 1.1 million and we have just under $13 million left to commit to something. So,

524
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>> you knew I was going to ask about this, right? Because it, you know, blew my mind when I saw it. So >> these bills already mounted 112560. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Well, we had seen the original

525
02:23:30.960 --> 02:23:48.319
um I forget it wasn't at there's another name for it that we had. Uh >> okay. So this this included all the subsurface testing, things like that, the vibration testing, people testing, >> all those kind of testing stuff that we did early on. That's correct.

526
02:23:48.319 --> 02:24:04.000
>> Before we got to uh Oh, Ross would be in there too at the same time. >> Exactly. 10,000. >> That's correct. >> And then the daughter does. >> Yes. >> So now what we will do is recalibrate to to set our expectation correctly what we're calling permitting now that we

527
02:24:04.000 --> 02:24:20.319
have commitments and we have all of our bills ready to be paid. Um, and we'll create another column in our working sheet to reflect that to show us where we stand on either overages or where we need to make up that money at this point.

528
02:24:20.319 --> 02:24:37.120
>> So, so it's it's so Katie, when we were doing when we were actually doing this before we had the OPM, we were basically taking all the bills against the 300,000 grant that we got. Correct. Basically, what we were doing, right? So, we as a committee were trying to stay within the 300,000 budget that

529
02:24:37.120 --> 02:24:51.600
we had. >> Yeah. >> But now after the fact, you show us the 300,000 in your list as money that we have to spend. Then you put all those bills back in there into it. That's correct. To create almost a a total project budget from when this thing was

530
02:24:51.600 --> 02:25:10.399
started. Correct. Am I correct in saying that that the estimate on what I guess Godard would cost is $52,000 more than we had anticipated. >> No. >> No, that's not correct. >> Yeah. So, if you looked at I think the Goddard invoice or the proposal that

531
02:25:10.399 --> 02:25:26.479
they gave. I forget the total number that >> 56,000. >> 56 grand. Right. And so >> what we did is when we put this budget together, okay, >> we put 60 in >> and then we started allocating, okay, with our funding sources, our original

532
02:25:26.479 --> 02:25:43.200
350 some odd thousand that we had, we had to start putting them into specific buckets that we had. Sorry, this has to do with I talked about this before the whole philosophy of looking at the total project cost, not the project as started

533
02:25:43.200 --> 02:26:00.080
after the first 300,000 was spent. >> Correct. Yeah. It's >> so another exercise would be we could consider anything that had been done previously as a separate >> project. Exactly right. >> Which would lower our total project budget. And if

534
02:26:00.080 --> 02:26:16.880
>> that's the way I was in my opinion, you know, it's being >> we had the money before town meeting spent up to the 300,000 and then everything after that was the rest of the project. >> The reason for for this exercise if I'm wrong, Katie, when we went to town

535
02:26:16.880 --> 02:26:35.120
meeting, there was some remaining funds. Is that am I correct in saying that? there was this the 17,911 >> we were we put that in to our total budget and made sure that we weren't double asking for money that maybe we still had against it. So um

536
02:26:35.120 --> 02:26:50.399
>> all right >> to that point that you said with before before we were hired we're also doing that exercise about the drawing down of certain buckets that we have funding sources. So you've got the ARPA, the housing choice, your UDAG. Yes. >> And showing kind of

537
02:26:50.399 --> 02:27:05.760
>> how those kind of cascade down on where you're drawing from. Ultimately, the the borrowing is going to be the last source of funds. You want to >> keep spending what we have in in in our coffers until the borrowing and bonding needs to happen. So the question for the

538
02:27:05.760 --> 02:27:26.880
committee will be from what spot do we take money in order to make up for the $52,000 deficit in this line. >> Yep. Think about the kitchen for >> I'm assuming you were trying to be funny.

539
02:27:26.880 --> 02:27:45.760
>> One I only need is one burner. One burner and a microwave. Hey, I have a hot plate I can lend you. >> The thing that's important about this is this is as clear as it can get. I mean, you're doing exactly what you believe is industry standards and this is the way

540
02:27:45.760 --> 02:28:02.800
it's acceptable practice y to do this this way. So, I I think that's excellent. We just have to keep working on it. >> So, what we will do for next meeting, too, is recast our budget again. >> Let things shake out again. We're going to we're going to accept VE that came in. We're going to realize that on here

541
02:28:02.800 --> 02:28:18.880
and we'll get to our bottom number again. Now, we'll have a a real number for permitting on here. That's going to go up a little bit and we'll see where we sit with our contingency with, you know, a new estimate. And ultimately what our bottom line is, do we have more work to

542
02:28:18.880 --> 02:28:36.160
do or do we not? But, um, we want to make sure that those costs that we had done a long time ago need to be realized on budget. So you know what you got when this this dawned on me again something else that I had a meeting on is still not resolved if I look at your list the

543
02:28:36.160 --> 02:28:51.439
owner's insurance the builder's risk I >> put it in an email about it and I think once that gets resolved that's also uh great well I made that up as part of the general inter >> well we agreed that we would explore it

544
02:28:51.439 --> 02:29:07.280
and it taken to those that would explore it just hasn't been resolved yet >> right it's been taken These are the people that need store. >> Yeah. >> So, so can I get a motion to approve the vendor invoice packet in the amount of

545
02:29:07.280 --> 02:29:29.920
$107,42324? >> Sure. >> Correct. >> I have a motion that we pay $107,42324 tax. Okay. >> All in favor? Chair says I. Any opposed?

546
02:29:29.920 --> 02:29:51.720
>> No. Okay. Thank you. All right. Awesome. >> Okay. So, um, our next meeting, >> we met off schedule this month. We were trying for the third Thursday. We met the second

547
02:29:53.920 --> 02:30:13.680
time, right? We push actual meeting in there to try to correct. Yeah. >> So then the third Thursday of May is May 21st. >> So we want to wait a month. Yeah.

548
02:30:13.680 --> 02:30:29.840
>> I don't think >> Wait. May what? >> You might not be able to keep waiting. >> Yes. >> There's so much to do. >> That's the Thursday before >> Memorial Day. When do I ask Dan at our working group meeting to get in touch with Goddard about potentially attending?

549
02:30:29.840 --> 02:30:44.800
>> Well, he's on he's out of off the out of the picture till the 25th. >> Yeah. >> But as soon as we get to them. Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, we're just waiting once in May. >> I think we always have the option to add

550
02:30:44.800 --> 02:31:01.359
additional meetings if we need to, but >> I may not be able to make it. >> Okay. >> Just let me know. >> So, that's five weeks away. Your driveway will be filling with >> Yeah, I got a lot of work to do that night. >> Why don't we do it May 14th instead of the later?

551
02:31:01.359 --> 02:31:16.240
>> Does that give you >> a month? That's a month. >> We'll >> Yes. If if we can um >> have to get the invoices in there too, you know, say that we need to get this in

552
02:31:16.240 --> 02:31:32.560
>> at this stage of the project where there's not many invoices that need to come in, then it shouldn't be an issue. We're we're we're going in at we're going to be going in at 90% uh and at the next meeting, which is I don't know what percentage what amount

553
02:31:32.560 --> 02:31:48.960
that is, but we'll be at 90% and then we'll probably hold at that 90 until we get final numbers back that might make some adjustments to the drawings. >> So, um >> is there still preference for the 14th then?

554
02:31:48.960 --> 02:32:03.920
>> Yeah. Yeah, >> it's still a month. Let's start. Yeah. >> So, the 14th 14 to 4:30 here. >> All right. Wonderful. >> Madam Chair, you will look into inviting

555
02:32:03.920 --> 02:32:19.040
Goddard or talking with Dan about >> We'll talk to Dan. Yeah. About that. Um, I've got several things that I need to send out to the group and get added to our documents online and um, making sure

556
02:32:19.040 --> 02:32:36.399
that God gets invited. >> If anybody wants to come to that April 28th planning room meeting, of course, the public is always invited. >> 6:15. >> That's the schedule to start the meeting, but we'll have to wait for the agenda to see where we are on that that

557
02:32:36.399 --> 02:32:51.200
night. And also on my agenda is to order a new power cord from the owl issue. >> That's the issue. It keeps cutting power to it and I keep plugging it and unplugging it. Yeah. So we

558
02:32:51.200 --> 02:33:06.960
>> Okay. >> Oh yeah. Well, I no public input a few minutes ago but there's no public input. Public. >> All right. So Ellen, can I get a second? >> Second. Okay. All in favor?

559
02:33:06.960 --> 02:33:10.560
says bye. Thank you everyone.