Hello and welcome to the Tuesday, September 23rd meeting of the Air Planning Board. This meeting hearing of the Air Planning Board will be held in person at the location provided on this notice. Members of the public are welcome to attend this in-person meeting. Please note that while an option for remote attendance or
participation via Zoom is being provided as a courtesy to the public, the meeting hearing will not be suspended or terminated if technological problems interrupt the virtual broadcast unless otherwise required by law. Members of the public with a particular interest in a specific item on this agenda should make plans for in-person versus virtual
attendance accordingly. This meeting will be live on Zoom. The public may access the proceedings by joining Zoom meeting ID 978-7728220 or by calling 9292056099. For additional information about remote participation, please contact Danny
Ruiz, town planner at duis at air.mma. US or 9787728220 extension 144 prior to the meeting. Do I have a motion for the approval of the agenda? >> So moved. >> Second.
>> Any discussion? Yes sir. >> So on the agenda there is I said under 12 Willow row it says requesting a continuence to the October 7th meeting. >> Yes. >> It's actually supposed to uh the October 14th meeting. >> Okay. Thank you. Sorry. We don't meet the seventh.
>> We don't meet the 7th. That was my mistake. >> Oh, we don't. No, it's okay. >> That's the That's the first Tuesday. >> Oh, okay. >> All right. Any other comments? Hearing 910? >> Any vote? >> I. >> Nathan, >> I. >> Julie,
>> yes. >> And the chair votes I. It is approved. Um Dan, you have some comments about the audio and the microphones in the room. >> Yes. I just wanted to let everyone know that we do have new audio mics here. There's one right under the TVs and then
there's one up here. So if you are speaking in the um in the uh audience it will get picked up. Um so please please just >> don't talk about me face. >> No just please try to keep it to a minimum so that when the recording is
done cuz with these new ones they do pick up very well. >> Okay. Great. Interesting. So the first item in the uh agenda is public hearing for 12 Willow Road and I understand that they've requested a continuous to October 14th. >> That is correct. So and just so that the
board understands so they uh there were some additional comments that were brought in um from D. They have to they also requested a continuence from the uh conservation commission um to their next meeting uh so that they could review
those comments and try to address those. So, we're kind of in a a wait and see until they have addressed those comments before they'll come back to us. >> They still also have to revise plans based on our comments um from the department head um comments. So, uh for
right now, it's they're waiting until the 14th. >> Okay, great. So, um I'll make a motion to for continuence of the public hearing for 12 Willow Road, uh map 23, parcel 26 to our October 14th planning board
meeting. Second. >> Uh any any discussion hearing? None. >> I. >> Yes. >> Nathan >> I. >> Julie. >> Yes. >> Chair votes I. It is continued. Next item is the continued public hearing for zero win uh Avenue the VA parking lot.
Danny, can you take us through what we can do this evening? >> Yes. Uh so uh there is I don't know what just happened there. Uh we have a draft decision that was um put in play that was done. It's up on the website. It was
uh sent to the applicant. It was sent to department heads for comments and um so from the uh comments that were brought up from the applicant uh they were very minor um more just clerical
um so we can go through the actual draft decision. >> Okay. And what would be place to start? Would it start with the f reading the findings out? >> Yes. Let me just actually pull up the word document so that I can work as we're going All right.
Um All right. So, this is the site plan approval document. Um the first page is our typical um information. It's just shows the updated uh plan. Um
so, we can go to uh number one. That's our site plan approval which when we make our motion that'll be makes the motion. So that's the motion. >> Um there's condition our general conditions 1 through 36 and there's four special conditions that were um put into
this. >> Okay. >> Um materials is everything that's been submitted to us like we typically do. Uh findings. So these are all of our typical findings. Um there is one that we did I did put in at the end which was number five. The applicant agreed to
have delivery truck use um use uh >> trucks >> use. Yeah, you got it right. >> Trucks agreed to have >> all all delivery trucks uh use high street to reduce Actually, no, this did not update. No, that did not update the
uh there's a comment that I one second. Let me just >> That's okay. No, there was a a comment um from the applicant that I had updated that it seems it did not save. Just one second.
So it should state I don't know why it didn't save but okay so the new wording should say the applicant agrees to install signage directing to delivery trucks to use high street to reduce
traffic on Webster app. >> Everyone get that? >> I see it right there. >> Okay, great. >> Excellent. >> You can print this page obviously again with that change. >> Yes. So, I'm I'm going to So, as I'm
going um the draft as we go changes, I'm going to do do the draft like I typically do and then the final document will get signed by John. >> Just let me know when to come in. >> Yep. >> Okay. So we do we have to read all the findings now that so the one significant finding that's different is number five that you just read.
>> General conditions are our usual general conditions but we have on page seven for special conditions. >> Yes. General conditions >> six. I'm sorry. >> Um our general conditions are what we have in every decision. So I don't know I mean if the board wants to go through anything I don't
>> I was going to read the special conditions into the record. So the special conditions, the first is the applicant and or owner shall submit the ANR plan showing the division of land into parcel A1 and A2. The planning board prior to the pre-construction meeting. Two, the proper signage clearly stating the proposed parking lot shall
be used for employee parking. Three, the parking spaces along High Street shall be removed and properly striped and labeled as a loading zone for the VA. Four, the applicant will review who owns the strip of landscaping on the retaining wall along the Webster Avenue uh Webster Avenue uh across from the BOA
main entrance and clean it up if it is owned by the VA. Five, the applicant shall conduct a test pit within the proposed bio retention area and witnessed by the town engineer. And finally, number six, the applicant shall revise the plans to show a foray for the
bio retention area. So, um I just caught that I forgot I did add additional conditions in there. Oh, okay. >> And so one through six. >> There we go. Um, so on the special conditions, does the board have any comments on those? >> Yeah, this is for the board you na
Nathan. >> Nope. >> So you said, what did you just say about the conditions you had added? >> Yeah. So um I forgot that I'd added number five and number six as well. And so these came out of the um uh so on
these these were uh comments that uh Jim Thorne had put in his peer review for the um Lincoln Hill project. But technically since the VA project is not under the purview of that peer review. What I did was I had um those comments
uh put under Matt's DPW letter. Those were given to us and that those were conditions that I put into this one. >> Okay. It is printed in what we have. So, >> Yep. >> It's fine. >> Yes. >> Great.
>> Um, are we ready for for the just discussion? I ask the board first. Any other comments about the site plan approval decision? >> Yes. >> I have one. >> Yes. >> Want to review the after occupancy? >> Uh, just ahead of this. >> Yes.
>> You would you mind reading that, Danny? So this after occup occupancy the applicant or future owner shall have the responsibility of maintaining or replacing the parking area, landscaping, storm water, septic system, signage and L lighting as indicated in the plan or
shall be required to uh properly implement the o operation and maintenance plan. Um there's some things that are in there that are not included in this but it's our typical language. So that's why like septic system there's there's not one but it's our standard language.
>> You remind me does this get recorded in the deed or >> Yeah. So this gets recorded at the registry of deeds. So whenever um you look up the property at the registry of deeds this will pop up. >> Thank you. >> And that's one of our requirements as as uh one of the conditions.
Okay. Great. Good. Um, any further input from the board, questions or comments? >> Let me just double check to and repeat again. I know you've already done it twice, but for the third time, these 1
through 36, typically in every site plan approval that we do, >> that is correct. >> As a board, we're thinking we don't have to address all of those items, but the question always comes up, the applicant has looked at those items and agrees that those one through 36 are included.
>> Yes. So the applicant So the applicant did review them. There were some comments that came out of it, but um they weren't enough that uh so I told them that they're general conditions that we just have on every one of them. Okay. >> Um like the one that came up to um was brought up was the Nifty's permit and
that's why it says if applicable on that one. So it's not a it's it's only if it's >> Yeah, exactly. And that's that's why we kind of do that is so that if it's applicable, it does apply. If it does
not, then it doesn't apply. >> So there's obviously more and 1 to 36 contains more items that apply to keep them there because it's a good practice. >> Yes, exactly. For the most part, almost just about every one of those will apply. Okay,
>> for the most part in this project since it's such a smaller project and only a parking lot, maybe not maybe like 75% of them will apply, but they're just there. Um because there's no for us it's like for us to remove those and change the change
them again. It's it >> it's just better to have them in there as >> so as as a as a for instance, can you go to 35? Yes. >> Which indicates that it if it's a res building, it would have a certificate of occupancy. But in this case, it has a
certificate of completion. >> Yes. >> It's verified by the building commission in the asbuilt plan and whatnot. >> Yeah. So, what would happen is once the project has been built, they would submit an asbuilt plan showing what's been completed to the to to myself and
to the building commissioner. We'd review it. Um, and they'd also submit a letter um, regarding the bio retention area just saying it was built per plan. And then we would make sure that it's all set. They would um, uh, we would
most likely do a final sitewalk to review anything that the board may have and then at that point we would issue them a final a certificate of completion. >> Good. Any other comments or questions from the board? Hearing none, I'm going to open it to
the public. We have to vote on the findings first. >> No. >> So, no. So, um when you vote on the decision, you're voting on everything within the document. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Uh I I'm going to open up to public comment, but going to ask to please
respect the length of the agenda and our time. Going to hold people to about 3 minutes. I'm going to ask that if if a pre a question has been previously answered that we don't rebr up the question. It's you can just say plus one or yes, you agree with that comment, etc. But we have a lot to get through
tonight. Uh so public, anyone wish Lori. >> Thank you. [Applause] >> Lori nearing 35 Highland Avenue in the air. Um my question is regarding the conditions. Do the conditions include
the um owners of the parking lot being required to sweep and keep clean the parking lot over time? Is that already in one of the mandates? >> So during construction, yes. I mean, um
maintenance, they're the one of the conditions states that they they're um responsibility of maintaining and replacing the parking area. So that's part of maintenance. >> I'm going beyond the uh problem with cracks or fractures over time. I'm concerned about sediment and oils and
things like that getting into the parking lot and flowing downhill and causing other problems. So, it's my understanding that we should be asking them to sweep on a regular basis. >> Um, that's outside of the plan board. We can't condition that.
>> There's a maintenance that they have to that they have to do. Like, if we There's plenty of projects that have parking lots that we can't require them to sweep at a certain amount of times. It's it's it's an operation and maintenance plan that's set forth that's
they have to follow. >> Okay. I would like to make an official note that the proponent or the VA is not apparently represented in this room. It would be nice if they would step forward and say they would be willing to do that to help take care of the property.
>> So, uh just on that clarif uh so the the um applicants are Lincoln Developers LLC and they have the authority from the VA to be represented by them >> and it still would be helpful if they were here and I think they should be. Um, my second question has to do with
um, we talked about which plants they're using in the bio retention area last meeting and I did not see a listing of what plants. Um, >> it's on the plans. >> It's stated on the plans. And have they been approved? Reviewed and approved by >> Heather and Matt both reviewed it prior
to the last meeting. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anyone else? Yes. >> Hello. Faith Alter 10 Winthre um what you were just talking about with the access for the trucks it said that they had to go on High Street and as from
from where on High Street I'm just aware when the film crew was in the neighborhood recently and there's cars parked on both sides you can't get up High Street William Street with trucks and because cars parked on both sides of the road. So are you talking about High Street on the on the south side of the building not the whole high street or
>> Yeah. No. So it's outside of where >> they're going to require the trucks to go up Columbia and then it was like >> the buses came down. >> Yeah. Let me show you. It's >> okay. I would appreciate that. >> Okay. >> Yeah. It's it's right here. Let me just
show. So it's down here where they're striping their we're get where they're getting rid of the parking area and they're going to make this a loading zone. >> Right. Okay. So when you said the trucks aren't going to act go down Webster, they're going to go down high. That's not for the paving and >> No, it's for loading. This is for
>> the trucks after. Okay. Sorry. I'm I'm I'm I'm in the wrong timeline. I'm sorry. >> Oh, understand. >> I thought you meant like the construction trucks and that they were going to be required >> High Street and I was like, >> "Oh, no, no, no, no. That we'll be talking about under the Lincoln Hill project." >> Beg your pardon? >> Do we need to mention that here? Cuz I
that had brought up my radar for that because that was my request. Um, is that anything we have to say on this one too? Because the same thing will be >> There will be trucks. Who will be trust? Is it worth or it all just kind of goes under one conversation? >> Same place. >> Same plan. Okay. So, um
>> it's going to be the same discussion. >> Bill agreed to. So, it's going to be the same um as the Lincoln Hill project >> Yes, it'll be just on the agenda. >> Yep. >> Thank you for bringing that to my attention. >> Not fresh.
[Music] >> I did not catch that. Lori Sable one win a related to what Faith just brought up but different is the um I think you said that during the construction process the
trucks are going to go up High Street. >> No, so we haven't we haven't talked about that. >> Okay. >> Um that >> okay >> it'll be so it's going to be discussed during the Lincoln Hill project but basically um so we'll talk about it at that point. My concern was in back of
the VA from High to Webster. It's nice now and that'll probably be torn up, I would imagine, by >> So, they're not going to be going down High Street. >> Got it. >> That's that's that's >> got it. How long will this project take
>> the the for um the VA parking lot? >> Yeah. Um, one of their requirements is to provide a construction schedule prior to site work. Um, which is what we typically request. Um, so as of right now, I don't know. Um, it would depend. The applicant would put together the
construction schedule that is detailed for us before we start anything construction wise. >> But you'll approve it before you see the construction schedule. >> No. So, the project is approved, but the construction schedule I will review with Matt and Heather and other the other
department heads um before site work commences, which is what we typically do >> because at this level, construction schedules aren't because they have to meet with contractors. All of that information that gets done later, >> right? But I don't mean when it's going
to start. I mean the duration of it. >> Yeah, that's that's typically done. Two weeks. >> You just want an estimate. Is that what you're asking about? >> Yeah. Just curious. >> Three weeks. >> Yeah. I would say three to four weeks. >> Three to four weeks is what the
applicant is is saying. I'll when we get the construction schedule. >> Okay. >> I'll be able I can I can send it over to you when it gets when we have that. >> Okay. Okay. Um I You're probably going to stop me, but I'm going to start. And if you want to stop me, go right ahead.
Uh, I don't find that there's a mass state law about cars not being allowed to back out onto >> No, that's not a mass state law. It's a town concern. >> Concern or bylaw? >> It's not a bylaw. It's a town concern. >> Concern. Okay. I thought you had said
that it was a a law from some entity. I don't remember you saying what entity that was. Okay. >> No, it's that's a um that's a concern from the town. That's why with Webster A when you ask that we can't govern what happens on a private way. We can on
public roads and that's our concern is when it comes out is backing into a public way uh with where oncoming traffic from both sides. That's why we we didn't like that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Anyone on Zoom?
>> And while we're waiting, Nathan, >> I say something, Mr. chair about the >> about um the question is it is the permit not issued until you've reviewed the uh schedule? No. So the way it we our
typical work is so the permit when you guys approve it tonight, Jonathan will then come in, sign it, it gets put into the town clerk. From the town clerk at that point, there's a 20-day appeal period. So once the appeal period is
done, the the permit is live as we would say. >> Okay. >> And then at that point the conditions of prior to site work, they can't commence anything until they've satisfied all of those conditions. So if the um at that point part of that is a pre-construction
meeting, the construction schedule, those things, we would re we would review it prior to um any site work commencing. >> Okay. So the conditions it's part of a process. It's not there isn't a
paperwork or delineating uh submission uh tied to different uh levels of of approval. >> No. No. So it's it's the once the once the um the the board approves it the
construction schedule that is more internal internally approved stuff. >> Thank you. Do we have anyone on Zoom? Yes. Uh Pauline, >> good evening and thank you, Mr. Chair and Danny. I just want to follow up on something I think I heard correctly.
Danny, uh in response to Lori Nearing's question, you said you have correspondence from VA um regarding the parking lot. what I >> approving it or whatever the proper term would be.
>> What I stated was the applicant has an author has the authority on the beha on behalf of the VA to represent them here >> and is there correspondence on which the VA has been or has signed off on the
changes to their parking facilities? >> So on the applicant is representing them. So yes, if the applicant is uh um making the changes, then they are they've they are on behalf of them approving it. >> So they've got they've discussed it with
Nishopa Park is or VA, I'm sorry. >> Yes. >> All right. And is that document on the ongoing projects link? >> Yes, I can pull it up and show you right here. So >> Nope, you don't need to do that. I can find it. I just want to be sure it's there. Yeah, it's called property owner
authority author authorization letter. >> Thank you so much. I appreciate that. >> Yes. >> Anyone else on them? >> Uh there was another Oh, nope. That was Pauline's. Um Nope. That's it. >> All right, then. I will make a motion
for approval of the site plan. >> Um so if you Yeah. Number two. >> Yep. >> Here we go. >> Which is >> on the next page. Okay. Uh motion approve the site plan
pursuant to subsection 320-3.5 site plan review of the air zoning bylaw subject to the standard conditions 1 through 36 and special condition number 1 through 4 in this decision >> 1 through six >> uh 1 through six in this decision and uh
presented at this meeting for um the project zero win avenue aka V8 parking lot. >> Second. Any further discussion? >> Yes. >> Yes, Nathan. >> Special conditions plural, please. >> And special conditions plural.
>> Thank you. >> Any further discussion? Hearing none, Nathan. Oh, Ken, how do you vote? >> Yes. >> Nathan, >> I. >> Julie, >> yes. >> Chair votes I. It is approved.
>> And then uh closing the public hearing. And I uh I move that we close the public hearing for Zero Winthup Avenue. >> Second. >> Any discussion? >> Hearing none. Ken >> I. >> Nathan. >> Hi. >> Julie. >> Yes. >> Chair votes eye. It's closed. Next item
on our agenda uh is of course zero high street and 38 Harvard Road, Lincoln Hills. Danny, you want to lead us through what we're going to be doing tonight? >> Yes. >> The agenda. So, um, so for tonight's, um, uh, topics, we do have, uh, Jim
Thorne from, uh, Green International on as well. Um, so we'll be getting to the storm water peer review. Um, so the first thing we have on is what I wanted to bring up was a termination from the board on sufficient information regarding past topics. Uh so I wanted to
have the board um you know kind of talk about whether they've received enough information to this point regarding past past topics that we've already discussed since so
starting in March to till now um to make a informed decision and a defensible decision. >> Yes. Because I want to explain to everyone that discussion continues until board members feel that they have acquired enough information to satisfy
regulations, laws, and bylaws and that they have enough to make an informed defense to they're informed enough to make a reasonable defensive uh defensible decision. Um the answer for me is yes. On the topics we've talked about in the past, including traffic,
blasting, what else? >> Landscaping. >> Landscaping, lighting. I feel that we have We have been satisfactorily >> the overall site plan comments from DPW >> uh myself, Heather, other department town departments.
>> Yeah, I'm good. >> Me? >> Yeah. Ken, Nathan, Julie. >> So, I think I would like to take another look at the phasing. Get a better explanation from the applicant on the phasing. Little concerned about the um that the listing of the phasing on was not
complete. So I like more on that. So that's my thought short of these last four traffic open space. Uh the CR for for sure. I just like to have a little better understanding of what who's who's going to hold the CR
>> if we know that. Uh >> and >> we won't go into that, right? We're going to >> No, no, but short of those >> short of these >> short of those last the the four topics listed. Yes. I have sufficient information. >> Oh, okay. >> That's exactly what I was thinking. So,
I'm the same as Nathan. >> Let's address the phasing then. >> Yeah. Oh, that's for the board to >> Would you like to address the phasing? >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Yes. Uh, can we ask the applicant to approach? [Applause] >> Good evening.
>> Good evening. >> Um, so we actually have been doing um >> Oh, you know what? you know the usual name the soccer people >> Janet Field um on behalf of Lincoln developers Ian Rubin engineer >> and Michael Fields
>> um so we have been in depth meetings with um Onyx the site contractor to try to nail down the um the phasing. So, what we're trying to just make sure that we're doing it the the most efficient in
terms of speed and um impact to the surrounding areas, including like the location within the site of where the crushing's going to happen. So, the way that we're planning to do it is to do the the entrance going around that
corner to the circle first and the the um Can I do you mind if I go up and point? >> Yes. Yeah, go ahead. because that's where the the majority of the blasting is starting right where the house is. >> So this area in here which is staging area
>> and that's the lowest point. >> So that's where we could set up to so as they come in here and um >> last process the material >> process here and then you know fill fill in along here. So this will be first coming in this way and this you know they'll the um road will be rough graded
in order for the to make these equipment and stuff to get back and forth to these two areas. >> So this would be this Nicholas Lane would be the last part to get finished. >> Ken what other so no >> what I'm getting at is you're going to build a retention system first. you're
going to you're going to put the retaining walls >> as those kind those kind of things that um the Caltech system um working from the bottom up to get to the sewer and get that because that all has to get connected prior to um even if we did
partial phasing on asphalt and say Nicholas Lane is done less all the infrastructure has to be done on that prior to starting foundations. um on the other. So it it has to be
about 75% done before we can start building houses anyway. Um just because of the lay the the sewer has to go down to the bottom. >> I don't. >> So >> what I'm trying to get at is >> retention ponds first.
>> The drawing does not ES does not indicate the whole sequencing is happy to do that. You either amend it give us a list. I think I think we should have a separate list like kind of what Danny Danny talked about when we're meeting with the site contractor because they're the ones that are really going to nail
down obviously the first thing that's going to happen is erosion control like so that's nothing happens before well actually we met with um on Monday morning we met with uh Kevin from Rosson Associates talked to him brought him up to date on the project how everything's been going because we hadn't really had
a good sit down with him in a while and um he is lined up to do go out on site and do some staking. He's going to start with a parking lot. Um and we talked about, you know, how clearly what what areas he's going to stake and that kind
of thing so that we can um be ready to put up the erosion control and you I don't know who but whoever wants to take a sidewalk out can look at the stakes even before we you know can kind of look at the limit of work before we put up the erosion control. um I mean you know
without trying to take up too much of your time and then then trees and then you know so >> um it'll be very very specific but if if you could let us help the have the site contractor who's going to be doing the majority of the work like we can write out something super detailed
>> we can do we can condition it that uh the construction sequencing plan >> construction phasing >> or construction phasing yeah whatever you want to call it um we can condition it in as prior of site work where Matt, you know, Dan, um myself, Heather, we
all sit and look at we we meet with them with the applicant and their uh contractor before um anything happens, before any site work happens. Erosion control obviously would go in and then we would do that uh we would have that meeting and then we would have a
pre-construction meeting on site. >> Okay. So it's evident that you have to install the drainage, the sewer, the water from >> the Graten Hover Road to High Street. >> Yeah. >> Before you can even start anything else, >> right? >> As far as you know, the paving and
whatever, bringing the road up to grade, the whole works that you have to do. >> And that's not evident in what's on the drawings is what I'm getting at that little sequence that he's got down there. So as long as we get that modified, we can look at it, double check it. I think we're all concerned that the limit of work be identified correctly and marked off and everything.
Everybody stays within that limit of work. Yes. >> Um and then when clearing comes and stumping and things like that which is extensive >> that there's no question about where things are, how they get stockpiled, where they get left over, you know that
that narrow strip, how it gets cleared. >> Yeah. >> And actually >> we haven't even talked about Grenham Road at all. details working in that area, you know, how you're going to get off and on the grid road. >> So, one of the one of the conditions
from Matt um was a traffic management plan. >> Okay, good. >> That's >> But we haven't talked about it before. >> You mean police details? >> No. >> Um >> for >> I we don't I don't know. I'd have to talk with police chief about that. But that's typically done
>> Oh. >> with the contractor. Yeah. >> Onx may carry it. You may carry it. >> Yeah. carry that. >> But it's evident that the the project has to both directions. >> Yep. >> But just as a reminder, remember a lot
of this information and stuff that happens post post approval because now you have the contractor, you have everyone set up and hired, then they there's that meeting where they figure out all that stuff. >> But based on the uh level of concern, I
think we'd all like to be >> Yes. No. No. I I I 100% agree with you which is why a condition is it's definitely I mean I know Matt had one about the traffic management plan which is important as well. It's like so the construction sequencing we can add as also as as a condition as well
>> to make sure that all these things are occur prior to any occur. One of my concerns is is the timing of the retaining wall and the design of the retaining wall by a structural engineer and all that has to go with that >> because I think the retaining wall actually represents a protection. It's
kind of a dam and by back filling compacting and getting that to grade you offset the chance of any runoff and whatnot that might happen as well. So I'm interested in that sequence of when that comes in and when wants to do that. In other words, I don't think it should happen later. I think it should happen earlier. >> Okay, we can talk to him about that. We
can absolutely get there. >> That that creates, you know, a definite >> strength in the site. >> Y >> it requires the engineering and the technique which they are capable. We see they're really good. >> No walls. >> Are they 5T?
>> Yeah. So do they do require >> structural engineering? >> We know all that. Yeah. But um it's important for the um you know if we have to review that structural engineer that design. I'm not sure if Matt would do it or your department would do it or what, but >> it so it would go through
>> once it's stamped by them, I guess it's as good as gold, but >> yeah, it would go through it's a building permit process, but they're going to pull a permit. >> Matt would also review it as well, >> right? Building commissioner would be involved. So, >> yes, we haven't talked about that step before, I don't think. So, I just wanted to kind of talk about that in the
sequence. So, that that's some of the concerns I have, but I'd be happy to see the final um construction phasing and sequence to go through some deep thought here with you guys so we are all on board with with that and everyone likes it. So that's my thought.
>> Okay, >> Mr. Chair, through you. >> Thank you, Ken. Good. Right, let's uh talk about the traffic route for construction vehicles. >> Yes. >> So that's all we had on going back. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't I mean I don't think there
was any other >> No, Nathan, Julie, and I didn't have anything >> actually. Let's Let's talk about the the um well yeah the traffic is yeah let's let's do the traffic
so >> the issue on the table is is whether or not the board feels they have sufficient information so I'm not taking public input on this particular issue. Thank you. >> Um let me just get the maybe the GIS will be better for this
one. While Danny's looking that up, could I just say ask one question? When I was doing a recent walk of the um of the woods, I noticed that there are a lot of recently downed trees. So, I wonder if it wouldn't be a good idea to
get Danny, Heather, or somebody out there just to kind of take some photographs. And, you know, I know everybody's very sensitive to making sure the open space is protected. And there's some trees that are just up with the roots up out of the ground. And I don't want to be responsible for thinking, oh, look what, you know, look what they've done. Yeah. No. Um Heather
and I can go. >> Okay. Yeah, there's several unfortunately. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, there's several just, you know. >> Yeah, we can we can definitely do that. So, in terms of the traffic route for construction, so I've you know, I've
been thinking about this to make sure that there is the minimal amount of impact on this on these neighborhoods. Um and based on the the the easiest route to avoid, you know, uh these comm
community these uh trucks going up these tight roads, it would be going up Washington Street. >> Yep. >> And then they would go down Highland A and come down here to down Winthrop or Web. Yeah. Winthrup and then come into
the construction site. this way. >> That avoids any construction vehicles trying to traverse these tight roads down here like Cambridge and Williams and Homes and High Street, especially High Street because if you look at that, I mean, there's that low point and then
to making it up that hill, it's not an easy, it's not going to be an easy um thing to do even, you know, say it's raining or slick out, you know, snow, whatever. We want to make sure that there's not going to be any concern with
that. So what we've been thinking is having them go up Washington down Highland A down Winthrop and then come into the construction site that way. >> Yeah. Absolutely no objections. >> Great.
>> So we have the ability to condition it in our approval. >> Yeah. >> Then what do you do for enforcement? So what happens is if if a vehicle goes a different route at that point, they call me or the DPW, we at that point we
would contact the um the applicant, make sure that there's no uh it doesn't happen again. And then after that there's either cease and assist fines and you know >> Yeah. And we'll like you know um have conversations, sit down, you know, make sure all the um truck drivers get the
memo. I mean even you know when it comes to building the houses we'll have more lumber have their you know have us sit down with all their drivers and make sure that they understand. So even when it comes to the smaller things, we'll make sure that you know >> cuz so typically the what the you know the enforcement comes from the building
department cuz at this point once it's approved >> two condition >> well because what happens is Yeah. Cuz this goes to Mike as the building commissioner. He's now the enforcement cuz he's zoning enforcement officer. >> He everything comes to me >> as uh if if anyone has a complaint I I
will look at the conditions make sure that if there's an issue they get addressed. I bring it to Mike and say, "All right, this is the recourse for right now." You know, we've spoken to them. They say it's not going to happen again. If there's another one, then Mike can say that's it's up to Mike to at that point to say, "Is it a fine or is
it a cease and desist until he's sure that it, you know, it won't happen again?" >> I mean, I don't want to convolute things, but maybe could there be temporary signage? >> Yeah. I mean, if you guys say >> truck route, >> you know, truck
>> and so we that could probably be part of the traffic management plan that Matt would um was requiring as a as a condition. So, as part of that, you could talk about, you know, this these are the steps you're going to take as part of that. >> Okay. >> So, open to the board first. Yes,
Nathan. Uh, so for clarity then Danny, you'll give us will you give us language as a special condition describing what you just said? Street, street, street. >> Mhm. >> And that'll be it for the special
condition. Uh, I I presume then we will we'll look really kindly on on all of uh Matt's um recommendations for special conditions and then there will be a speech basically on this topic.
a second special condition that says traffic traffic management plan shall be submitted. >> Yeah. So, kind of like what we did with Stratton Hill, you know how that was our our decision and then there was a separate document that we did for special conditions that traffic these
were the traffic conditions, you know, um storm water, these were are the storm water conditions and that's what we we'll make sure that all of those are listed in there. >> Okay. >> Good. Anyone else in? Yep. >> So, I happened to take a ride up Highland today because I figured this
was going to come up and the street needs repair. >> So, how do we >> one of the >> get that done before the job starts so that the and then as you know take a review of those condition so if and when it gets damaged by trucks they're
responsible for the later repairs but they're not responsible for fixing it right now. Um, >> I I'll ask Matt to come up with that one. >> Winthro also has >> the the the exact route we would >> Thank you.
>> Um, yeah, you see I shared. Thank you. >> Hey, Matt. >> Good evening. >> Um, yeah, Highland A is on public works list of like high priority streets for microphone, please. >> Thank you. Um, Highland A is on high up
on the list of streets needing resurfacing. Same as uh Williams and homes. Those are likely going to happen in the next couple years. I can't unfortunately I can't put a definitive date on it uh today. Um, so do you think we could like maybe take pictures of the
existing way to make sure we have a record of what it currently looks like? >> Yes. And then once construction starts, you know, if post construction's done, there's there's, you know, more wear and tear that was hurt, there's there's ways
that we can either maybe there's monetary, maybe it's um they fix the cracks, you know, we can kind of um as a condition to at least address those concerns. That's what I guess Ken's looking for. >> I think that's a great idea. I know past
projects that you know Wright Road for example >> similar conditions. So >> I think that's a good idea to at least have the road held up until the road is eventually resurfaced as it as it needs um unfortunately I don't have a date on
it but yeah it will happen in the next couple years. >> Okay. >> Looks to me like it needs patching right now in some places. Could we just do some patching? I I know you're not in char not in charge, but um seems to me that we should at least patch it so that it's acceptable at the beginning and
then when it gets torn up by the trucks, you know, it's another story, but uh >> I patching needs to be there'll be a problem. >> I I understand >> definitely be a problem. >> I just don't know. I mean, Dan would have to put in there would be input that Dan
would have to make because make Dan would have to make that determination, right? >> Someone has to make a determination. But I can predict that if we don't fix it now, they'll be thinking it was torn up during construction. >> Well, that's why I said we take what we photograph of what it is
>> the current conditions >> so we know what the impact was. >> That's my concern. I think it's le valid and we can go from there. Thank you, Mr. Sh. >> Anyone else in the board comments on the traffic route? >> I'm just really grateful for the
discussion. I've had a few conversations with residents of those streets. in the past week and that was a really they were very grateful that I thought confidently you guys would be amenable to that. >> So I'm going to open up for public input on traffic route for construction
vehicles. Yes, Lori. >> I chief Oh, I didn't see a chief. >> Not in public input. >> Um, hi >> there. Talking about the uh the traffic in detail tonight. >> Yes. Um, so the one thing I just would like since we're going to be dealing
with heavy trucks, I would like to We have a bylaw on the books right now that talks about engine brakes in the trucks and where we're dealing with hills and large trucks. I would like there to be a heavy conversation and insistence that
no air brakes be used >> through the engine. Yeah, the Jake brakes. They're engine brakes. Jake brakes is a brand. Oh, so they're >> um so if we can um just make sure that that's enforced, especially going up and down the hills, >> we can make that part of a condition.
>> Perfect. >> Thank you, Chief. >> Thank you, >> Lori. >> Thank you, >> Lori Sable, one Winthrop Avenue. I don't want to pick nits, but um Matt didn't mention Winthrop in that
list of other streets that you mentioned, and it's one of the um worst offenders as far as potholes. So I assume it will be included also in the list of streets that will be
>> photographed and what documented >> and re repaved re >> well the town. So what basically what what um Matt said was currently those are on the list of the town's list of things >> I understand
>> in terms of I don't I can't speak for what the DPW has for their list. the they determine it based on a a whole bunch of criteria. >> Okay. Is there maybe because there are fewer houses on Winthre that could be one of the reasons, but is there concern
that there might be damage done to that street that would not be repaired during the during the DPW repavement project? >> Oh. Oh, I see. I see your concern. So if anything, so we would take record of
what that road looks like and if there was impacts that occurred, if the um winter is not on their list, then the applicant would have to fix that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I believe Faith wanted to come up. What?
>> Well, I did, but I didn't put my hand up yet. >> Okay. >> So I saw you earlier. >> Just a quick question. Salter 10 Winthre and this is a little bit following up on um Chief Gil which is say I know that the state has laws about idling and my house is right on Winthre where trucks will be stopped.
I'm sure they and I'd like there to be a discussion with them about not idling in front of my house constantly all day long. >> Yes. Um one of our conditions is no idling. Um we we have a no idling condition already. >> Yes.
[Music] Lori, Lori, me. I I'm getting word from our our filmers that we're actually you're overre correcting for our problem. So, don't speak so close to the microphone. Please don't do not close. Okay. >> Is this acceptable?
>> I'm sure normal spot is acceptable. You're doing great. >> Going in my eyes. >> I know. And I understand you're having trouble with many. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Let me know if my voice is not loud enough. >> I'll watch. Okay. Thanks. >> Um, can you give us an idea of how many trucks we're talking about? What is the traffic load going to be like while the
construction is going on? >> I mean, it's going to eb and flow at in the beginning. I mean, we're not trucking material off >> tracking material offsite or in for the first there's going to be uh vehicles bringing equipment up. Um
there's going to be um once the tree cutting gets done, they're going to be logs getting uh removed. Um but then once that's done, it's very little truck traffic until they start doing
>> delivering pipe and >> pipe and stuff like that. So, it's it's going to be further down the road. >> Okay. Um I'd like the board to take note that um couple of things. The um
try it this way. The cracks and the the potholes that have already been described get much worse every winter. It is it's a very serious problem. the trucks, snow trucks coming up, the snow piles coming up the road on the steep hillside on both Highland and High Street really struggle and the snow gets
piled on my yard um there and so there are potholes and the pavement gets dug up every winter. So assuming you know you're going to start sometime in the winter if you did um we need to take that into consideration. My suggestion would be that they'd be asked to repair Winthrop completely because it's going
to be really messed up with the heavy trucks. Um, I also want to point out that we have a children's bus stop for the ele elementary school on Highland Street right next to my house and they're probably 12 or so kids that cross the road every morning and get off
the bus every night and the drivers need to be aware of that and I think that should be taken into consideration as well. Um, I would appreciate it. Actually, the truck driving could be split between going by my house all the
time um and going up through Winthrop and driving around the other way if there were smaller trucks somehow divided up. Um that would be my request, my suggestion. But it feels like we're getting hit, Highland is getting hit with all of the traffic, Highland and
Winthrop. So that should take that into consideration. >> Thank you. >> Any uh anyone on Zoom? >> Can I? >> Yeah. Yes, I can. say we're having Straten Hill be built in our neighborhood right now and we have a lot of bus stops and that is all happening
and I would just like to say for now at least in one development it's going quite well. Um the kids are all managing the buses and the trucks are doing quite nicely. We're coexisting well in the the Straten Hill bus stop here. >> Thank you. >> I see good things for you. >> Is there anyone on Zoom?
>> Uh yes. >> Yes. Uh Katherine Yates. >> Hi. Yes. This is my first time attending. So, do I have to say So, I'm Katherine Yates. I'm at 28 GR in Harvard. Um, will the if there's any
damage to kind of the sidewalks or the beginning part of people's driveways and things like that, is that something that's also addressed with the larger road repairs? Um, so if the impact from the
construction vehicles um affect so the sidewalk I I don't know they shouldn't affect sidewalks um but if there is and they would yeah they would have to address those as well. >> Okay. Yeah. I just have a community here
where construction vehicles because of the pressure on the road cracked >> the driveway started to crack. So it was it was related that in that way. >> Okay. Yeah, they would. Yeah, they would definitely have to address those as well. So, we would also take pictures of Grunt and Harvard Road while we're at
it. >> Okay, perfect. Thank you. >> Great. Anyone else online? >> I don't see anyone else with a hand up. >> Great. So, the next topic is the open space and conservation restriction. I just want to clarify that this this
discussion is not about the boundaries or the shape of the open space. It's about the actual disposition about who's going to take it. And this is a rather I find this a very complicated discussion because as it turns out there's two separate issues. There's actual ownership of the land and then there's
ownership of the conservation restriction. So I I just put that out there. If you get confused in the conversation about who owns what, join the club because it can get rather complicated for us as well. But just be aware that there's two different things
that have to be quote owned. the actual land and then the conservation restriction. >> So, we're also talking about the the the updated calculation. >> The updated calculation. >> Yes. Lead the way on this. >> Yes. Um so, the applicant provided an
updated revised a revised uh open space plan. Um so, as you see the yellow there's two yellow areas which are called uh open space area. Those are going to be the untouched open space. that area meets the requirement of the
50%. The area within the proposed easement area which is um is not being considered as part of their 50% requirement is still going to be considered open
space when the conservation restriction goes in place. So, it's going to be protected under that conservation restriction. Um, but it's not going towards their 50% allocation as to meeting the requirements, which is what the, you know, OSRD guidelines say. You
can't count that towards your 50%. But it is part of the open space. Um, I just wanted to make sure that was clarified. um uh this so when they put in the CR all of the area within the yellow and
this proposed easement will be under that conservation restriction and protected under there. Um so currently based on the two yellow areas they do meet the uh 50 uh% they're at 50.2%.
They also exclude the driveway easement um for uh the Kazeras project uh property up here. Um so and that um will not be included as part of the conservation restriction because that is a driveway easement that they um that
they use for access for their home. Um so as of right now um based on the design guidelines does the board feel they have met the intent of those design guidelines for the open space >> for me? Yes. Julie's nodding.
>> Yeah. >> Nathan. >> Um could you just review the this now include the the north section there? Is that now the the VO the additional uh
property that is >> Yes. The V. >> So originally the line stopped like I think right here. >> Uhhuh. >> What happens now is since they've added in that additional parcel, it includes this additional area down here, they've
excluded the area that's going to go under the that's going to be done in on the ANR for the VA parking lot. So that's been removed out of the calculation that's going to end up going to the VA. The rest of that parcel is now included in the open space.
Okay. And then just to be from my understanding, you said Danny that the what is shown in yellow that's that's clearly uh open space. It'll be it'll be owned by it'll be it'll be owned by some
entity. >> Yep. and it'll be under conservation restriction. In add in addition, this what's titled proposed easement area, >> yes, >> will also all of that be owned and under
restriction. Um so so really the with the addition of the VA property and the um easement we we're going to be in excess of 50%
uh under restriction. >> Yes. Under restriction. Yes. But in terms of our requirement of the 50% they have to meet it without that either. >> Yeah. Right. Right. So it's it's
it's I I think it's a benefit to the minimum. >> That's okay. That's I didn't uh appreciate that before that that proposed easement area will be also restricted. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And that's I just wanted to make
sure that that was clarified because I know there there was we kept talking about removing that out of the open space is what we were talking about was removing out of the open space calculation not necessarily the conservation restriction. So the conservation restriction will still protect that area.
>> Are we going to sorry Mr. Chair one um >> are we going to identify the this who who will hold the CR? So in discussion with that um so on Thursday the conservation commission will be having a meeting regarding this as to who um if
whether or not the conservation commission wants the land cuz that's going to meaning the >> town of that's the first step is whether or not conservation commission wants it. >> If the conservation commission chooses to take it then at that point the next
question is okay who's going to monitor it? Because you can you the same entity can't own and monitor the land. Correct. They can't. >> No. Did you mind? >> Yeah. Come on up. >> What you're saying what you're saying is
not how it actually works. So um >> the entity that holds the open space cannot hold the CR. A CR is then monitored which can be then monitored by somebody else. Good point. So you were making >> I was I was confusing the two. Thank you.
>> So when the commission meets on Thursday, we'll be discussing whether we want to hold hold the open space own space and or hold the CR. >> Okay. >> So it's a meeting to discuss both. >> Yes. >> Um which are with one or the other or how how they decide they want to do
that. >> Okay. >> But when you say monitor, that's I just wanted to make sure no one some people in this room know how that works. I don't want to confuse anybody. >> Thank you. Thank you for clarifying that. Yes. Can I can I um follow up some more miss? >> Yes, of course. >> So
my is is it the HOA's does it they have like a first right refusal to own the open space? >> No. So the applicant is going to meet with conservation well conservation commission is going to discuss they're going to give what they the thing was
their recommendation. At that point, the applicant will make a determination on who will own or hold the land. >> Okay. So, options are town, HOA, condominium association. Yep. >> Or um another entity.
>> Okay. >> Anyone else on the board? So I just want to review Danny then when we started here um we had quite a discussion in the first couple meetings about open space and the fact that we pretty much insisted that they take that calculated easement out of the required
50%. >> Yes. >> And Ian Rubin didn't like that idea at the beginning but because uh because of our experience in the past that that may or may not have come up in the past with other towns or whatever the case might be. Mhm. >> So we're talking about a regulation in
the open space regulations and guidelines, not a bylaw. Correct. This is a regulation >> which we control as a board in under our OSRD, open space >> regulations, basically open space residential development regulations. >> So I think what happened is we can see
uh we've had some comments about the shape and because we have worked to try to move the easement away from we've in essence created some unusual shapes in the yellow. >> Yes. But the important thing for me was the fact your explanation about the the
difference between what actually ends up being in the conservation restriction and restricted open space in the end control and and the calculations we require. And if you recall and I think the board probably recalls, we went through this at the very beginning of
OSRD that electrical company overhead wires could be included in the CRS other kinds of easements, water, sewer and other kinds of easements. So this is not a new topic to us as far as easements and their ability to be and we reached out to professionals on this before.
>> Yeah, we've seen this on every OSRD that you guys had before us. >> So we heard from the power, we heard from other lawyers and other people on this particular issue. >> I mean we've had AT&T, we've had private sewer, you know, private utilities, we've had um access and you know you
we've had them all. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you. I'm good. like to open up to public input regarding open space and the conservation restriction. Are there questions or comments? >> Yeah, >> let's handle the room first.
>> Hi, welcome. If you would say your name and address, please. >> Ya court. >> I would just like to understand um the easement is where all the infrastructure is, the drainage system, the retention basin. So just how that meshes with
ownership and conservation like there's concern about the storm water system and potential issues. So who would own it? Who would you know be responsible? >> Yes. So the way it would work is the easement that gets recorded for the utilities would be owned by the
condominium the applicant and then once it turns over to the condominium association. So the the in the condominium docs they that would be within there that they're responsible for the upkeep and that which is part of the on andm plan which is the operation and maintenance plan as to how you take
care of a storm water system and the utilities associated with it >> even if they don't own the land >> but they have the easement >> they have the easement so they own that's what the easement's for that they are required to do the maintenance >> correct >> and have liability responsibility yes
>> for everything the >> correct and then within in when the when the conservation restrictions gets written um that would be included in there as well that they would be in they would be using um they would be going in there to
conduct maintenance yearly maintenance. >> Got it. Okay. Thank youing. Um let's see. Do you have through the through the chair? Do you have a ballpark idea of how expensive how much the HOA will need
to be to cover this um operation the O andM? >> I don't. No, not even an idea. Are we talking a couple hundred per house? >> Nope. We don't have an idea. >> I mean, it'll be whatever the cost is yearly divided by the 34 houses. So, I I
don't even know. Okay. It seems like there should be some. Danny, do you have a rough idea? >> No, that's typically done well past once the project gets approved and constructed. >> Yeah, it's hard to consider um small homes having to take that on as a
burden. >> Well, so just to clarify, they do it all the time. Cond So I've >> I'm very familiar with HOAs, but these are >> This is not an HOA. >> Hangry Hill has an >> This is This is a condominium association. This is different. Well, >> sorry, but >> Yeah, but yes. So, it's similar Hill has an HOA. Yeah, it does. Very similar to
that. >> Okay. Um I apologize, Jonathan, that um I'm bringing this up again, but that little sliver um of yellow >> where on the south portion of the site, this right here. >> Yep. Yep. Just doesn't meet the
requirements from my understanding of what open space is that it's supposed to be um of value to the wildlife. And I don't understand how that happens. you indicated when you sat down that they have met the 50.2%. And if we remove that little sliver, I
don't know if they still meet the 50%. >> And I'm really concerned that that doesn't meet the requirements in my view. >> So it does meet the the the intent of the bylaw. Um this I mean the regulations. You're right. Sorry about that. Not the bylaw, the regulations.
>> So this does meet the regulations. Um I understand. So within the design guidelines, there are some sections that talk about strips of land. This meets the 30 feet wide, even though they don't have to do that because this is not between a house lot. That's when we have
subdivisions. So um this meets that 30 ft wide. It goes around the property. And the reasoning behind this is this keeps all of the development internal and there's a buffer of land that still is untouched on the outside of the
property. So it it helps uh make sure that there's no impact along that buffer to abuing neighbors. So, so you think that the concept of connectiveness is particularly important when trying to preserve meaningful. >> I'm sorry, what?
>> You think that that's being met? >> If if Can you say that again? I did not catch that. >> The the bylaw says the concept of connectedness is of particular importance. >> I'm sorry. >> You're talking about a bylaw or regulation? >> Regulation. I just it's very important.
Do we talk about the regulations? Not the >> Could could you please elaborate on the difference between the two because I don't >> Yeah, >> I know they're both important but I don't know how to distinguish them. >> Yes. So bylaws were are set by the town in the sense of they're voted into authority bylaws which are typically
done as they're the higher kind of um like they're the you know bird's eye view regulations get more into the weeds where um the it it um is more in depth and more specific to um certain
requirements. So in the regulations when we talk about that those are ones that the board had created not the town >> but there are also state and federal regulations. So these are distinct these are >> these are only
>> town of air regulations. >> Okay. >> Um so I'm just going to pull up those regulations because I know that just so that we all can see >> what's um being discussed. And so the configuration, the overall
nature of the uh open space. So this one, the strips of common open space near house lots should not be less than 30 ft wide to both protect existing vegetation and provide a path to residents to access larger open space in subdivisions. So that's typically done in subdivisions. We did this on Shaker
Mill Pond. there's a strip of land that um was between two units. That's what that requirements is talking about. So that when you have house lots, this does not have house lots. This is a site plan and it's condominiums. So what they did was they provided a buffer along around
the whole development as to keep all the development on the internal portion and there still be an untouched buffer around the whole development. I I understand that it's a buffer, but I don't understand how it can be counted as part of the 50% open space. >> Why couldn't it be?
>> Because it doesn't meet the definition of helping wildlife. >> But it that doesn't only have to meet wildlife. >> That's not the way I interpret this. >> Okay. But that's >> But you know what? The the board has already said we've said that we're satisfied that it meets the design
requirements and guidelines. >> I guess I'm disagreeing with that decision. >> You're free to disagree with it. Okay. Do >> we have anyone online? >> Um I I don't know if there was anyone else in inside. >> Nope.
>> Uh there's two hands. So the first one uh Oh, there's three hands. So the first one I'd go was Jacob cuz I think I saw him first. >> Yeah. I'm going to just be pretty brief on this and just add to the the disagreement with the board that that
strip along the top and the bottom meet the 30 foot because the house lots are not they're not house lots as part of the construction but they're adjoining house lots neighboring there and I think the decision to disregard that is uh capriccious and I just want that on
record. Thank you. >> Who's next? Um, Katherine Yates again. >> Yeah, Katherine Yates, 28 Graten Harvard. So, if the um who enforces or who monitors that the easement property
and all of the utilities and all of that stuff is maintained, for example, if the COA does not appropriately manage their funds and they don't have the funds to maintain something or they're just not doing it. >> Yes. >> Because they're not functioning properly.
>> Yeah. So um as part of our requirement and of one of our conditions in the decision is they would have to submit yearly inspection reports showing that they are maintaining all of that. Um we received so one of the conditions is every October we receive that letter and
it has to be from a professional um engineer uh stating that all of these inspection this inspection was done. whatever maintenance needs to be um done or fixed that gets addressed and then they would provide us with another letter saying that it was addressed. If
that is not being done um the enforcement comes from the town. So the town would then um talk with the develop uh with the either the condominium with the condominium association to make sure that it does get addressed. Um, one of the conditions that the town engineer
did um, ask for was a shy bond for the storm water system. So, five years of the worth it of the cost to upkeep the um, storm water uh, system. So, uh, one
year's worth times five and that would be held in a bond. >> Okay, awesome. And then are will the CCRs for the COA set this out so that anybody purchasing or buying there you know signing up to be on that COA knows
that this is part of their responsibility? >> Yes. So one of the conditions we would write in would be that so well um in the condominium documents that would all be referenced in there. Um, one of our conditions would be that before the
condominium docs get recorded, I would review it so that to make sure that all of the conditions that we set forth that we felt need to go in the condominium docks are in there. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And I think we have one other person. >> Yes, there was uh more. No, we have more
hands. Um, uh, Beth, >> good evening. Beth Sidmire Nasha Street. Um I also just want to comment that I do feel that the conservation analysis findings are not being
fulfilled to the extent which was intended and I mentioned this in the last meeting in terms of the compromising of the integrity of the area proposed for the conservation restriction because of the layout. Um,
you know, it's already been stated by others, um, who have commented that, you know, I think so much value is lost because of these narrow strips. I mean, one of those strips appears to be about 5 ft wide or something um, you know, in
the in the access area um, approaching Graten Harvard Road. >> That was done that was done at the behest of the discussing with a um, a budding property to make sure to pull that away. So I think that the ecological integrity
is significantly compromised and when I look at the conservation analysis findings um you know I just really feel like there's there's a lot of comment related to the
the interface of the storm water infrastructure and the access related to the open space conservation restriction area and how that impacts basically, you know, the integrity and the ecological
significance of um of the rest of the property. So, it is very disappointing to see a layout like this. And I also just want to make sure that the comments related to invasive species control and
restoration of areas are fully um implemented. I haven't seen a lot of information related to restoration adjacent to um sort of the access connection between the uh infiltration basins and things like that. So, you know, again, you know, I'd really
encourage the board to very strongly condition invasive species management throughout the property, including in the open space area and the um restoration of native species that are appropriate for the these ecological
system. I also want to call out again, you'll be surprised I know um but there's a lot of conversation in the conservation analysis findings about avoiding mature trees and adjusting the layout to include mature tree areas
within the conservation restriction. We still don't have an understanding of the mature trees in the area. So again, I feel like it's been very difficult, if not impossible, to estimate where you're protecting mature trees within any of of the property because we just don't have
sufficient information. Um my final comment is really related to the green um area that is included. Um, it it's shown as an easement area, but
it's been indicated by the town planner that that would be included in the conservation restriction. I have serious concerns about the infiltration basins themselves being included in the conservation restriction. And if they are, there's no that's standard practice. >> Standard practice. It's allowed by the
state law. a whole heap of language related to management and the bonds and things like that for these infiltration basins within the CR. And you know, just really clarifying the town is not responsible for and the town is holding
bonds to be able to repair any damages that happen as a result of failure of those systems. Um, so you know, it just it it really complicates the the CR process a lot. Um I would just reiterate on that it does not um we see this on
almost every project that we have before us and I know I've seen this on a project that actually went before you and Sudbury. >> So again the conservation restriction needs to be significantly evaluated to be sure to accommodate all of these
contingencies related to the basins. >> We got it. >> Thank you Beth. >> Thank you. Um just quick quickly um Heather can you just talk about um uh what did we even >> think of it here it's fine
>> the easement and how it's allowed within the >> well so if if you look to past um planning board OSRD applications um the I think the most recent one so curly circle um that one has a storm water uh
infiltration basin within the OSRD Um I mean within the uh conservation restriction uh that plan was done and the conservation restriction was accepted and recorded uh back in 2020ish time and or 2022 something like that a
couple years ago we just had the baseline completed. There was no issues with that infiltration basin found in the baseline report. There is also one within the Panther Place. We're still in the process of doing that CR but that was done and approved by the planning
board. um as well uh and is already in there. Um so there are two at least two other uh projects in town that have the um uh info uh storm water basins within the open within the conservation restriction. There might be others that
were done beyond this. Um I'm not sure where it is even for in regards to um >> Straten Hill. >> Yeah, Straten Hill, I'm sure. Yeah, Straten Hill does have them. And as a project that was not a subdivision, I think even Air Solar 2 has it as well. So, it's it's an allowed use to have
them in there. Um, it does, I agree with Beth, it does make the CR process, the writing of it a little more difficult. Thankfully, on this standpoint, we're not the ones writing them. Um, we our town council just reviews them and so does the state. So, it's not our lawyers that are writing them, it's the
applicants. But it is a common practice that we've seen in almost every single project that's come before the planning board under the OSRD. >> And regarding getting an argument now um trees um mature trees and conditions of the
conservation analysis and the uh uh invasive removal why it was chosen there. So, so as far as the invasive removal in regards to the conservation analysis that was most of it was written if you read the conservation analysis was in surrounding the existing house
which is where the construction is which is what was based in that analysis to say that the con the developed area should be within due to the fact that that's where the invasive species are. um when the conservation commission does a project, one of our conditions is they
can't bring fill in with uh invasives in there and to keep that from going. That'll be one of the conditions that I submit um to Danny and as far as this project to make sure we're not bringing invasives in. Um as far as um looking at mature trees and going around, same
thing which we've mentioned before. when we go out and do our inspections for the erosion controls and the limit of clearing um they're not haven't done any clearing before they do those erosion controls. So sometimes those get shifted to try to keep them around an existing larger tree. So we'll have that in there
when we go out and do that erosion control and pre-construction meeting and that's when we'll try to sit there and try to figure out what trees can be kept out on site to try to keep the integrity of that area. Um, also with this project, if you've long gone through and
looked through the landscape plan, um, it's it's a very robust tree replanting plan on there, lots of street trees. I know that doesn't replace um, mature trees, but it is something we've have not seen in any other project has come
before the planning board to have that many if at any street trees replaced. um along with the conversation on the landscape plan to have they made the comment to have um more native species put in there. All the trees and shrubs
for the street plantings are all native and then they've made the condition they've have revised the ones outside of the units to include um native species. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. Thanks. Yes, >> I want to Adam's been waiting and then I'll know.
>> Um, yes, it was Adam next. >> Hi. Um, just wanted to get a point of clarification. Adam Carrier, uh, 57 Cambridge Street. Uh, the yellow area that is area that is not to be touched. Is that correct? There will be no
removal of vegetation and trees in those areas. That correct? >> Yes, that is correct. >> Okay, very good. I just wanted to confirm that and um I just also want to state my own concerns about the uh that that others have stated about you know
the space that has been being allowed especially that small strip and so forth. No need to repeat what others have said but um just adding my voice to that. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Hello. Hi. Thank you. Uh Rachel Gazera,
30 Grten Harvard Road. Um I was just uh listening to your conversation about the easements and so it just seems like there might be more than one type of easement um just with regard to our driveway. Um, so I didn't know if there
was language that would be possible to include in future discussions regarding I guess the parameters surrounding uh the modification monitoring um you know all of the things that kind of go into
um what uh an easement might take on in the future. It just seems like there's two different kinds of um easements uh that you're referring to. So I was just hoping to like There's several different kinds of easements, >> but it may not be applied to what we're
talking about where utility easements here. >> Yeah, there's there I agree with you. There are many many types of easements out there. >> So, the kind of easement that >> I'm so sorry I can't hear you. >> Oh, sorry. So, there are many many kind of easements out there. >> All kinds. The So, your easement that
you have is a driveway easement. It's a It's a pass the right to pass and repass this easement, which is the proposed easement area that it's shown up here. That's for utilities and storm water. >> All right. So, will um that language be addressed at a later time or um is it
part of the the plan? I'm so sorry. >> In in terms of what? Um, I guess it's just it seems like you're discussing um condo associations um and the future plans I guess for the
space that's being disrupted. Mhm. >> So I, you know, I don't know what will transpire um but just to have I guess some indication as to steps moving forward with regard to the um just rules
or regulations surrounding um the usage of our driveway, any improvements or modifications that might be needed in the future. Oh, in terms of your driveway, >> well, I guess of just like making sure that when you're referring to different
easements um in the future, um you know, obviously our driveway is an easement technically. So, >> um I guess I was just speaking to uh what um steps might be taken with regard to that because it didn't seem like it was included in the specific um
>> uh discussion. >> Yeah. So it you're right it was so um we will be specifying this is a utility easement. So within um the plans there's going to be a recorded document that uh deed and a um easement plan that gets
recorded at the registry that specifically shows this area and calls it as a utility easement and your easement in terms of that it's not being included as part of the conservation restriction. It's but it's um it is a
driveway easement that you already currently have on deed. So there's nothing that needs to be done for that. >> Okay. So um if there's a future um difficulty with regard to I don't know it just seems like there's a lot of action that happens every season and
kind of the you know the easement changes slightly as you know >> the easements should not change. >> Easements are >> Oh no no no I apologize. I just meant um the texture of the driveway or um just like >> So, are you asking who's going to
maintain your driveway? >> Well, I you know, I'm not sure at this time. I guess I just wanted some um just clarification with regard to um it just seems like we're talking about all of the space that's not being developed. So, I was just hoping to get clarification on that just cuz it is um
>> yeah, that is that is outside of our scope. We don't control as to who maintains your easement. >> Okay. >> You either have an agreement or you don't. I don't. That I don't know. >> Okay. No, I was just trying to get clarification just cuz you were I apologize. I'm not really familiar with
all the easements. I was just trying to differentiate. Um um and then uh goodness. Um >> oh goodness, I lost my other question. So, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. >> Thank you. I'm going to uh call five
minute recess. >> Thank you. >> Hello. I'm calling meaning to back to order. >> Excellent. All right. The next item is the shity bond for construction. Danny, will you lead us through this discussion?
You took my copy of the uh >> All right. So, the shity bond for construction. Um this You got this. So, this was um brought up uh as a as a discussion topic. Um I think so for a shy bond for
construction, typically what is done is under subdivisions, we typically have a a covenant or a bond that's put in place. Um since this is a site plan, what um the applicant had agreed to do
>> I'm sorry. I was talking >> Yeah. Um, so the the what the applicant had agreed to do on this occasion is to enter into a tripartite agreement. And what that is is the town, the applicant,
and their bank would enter into an agreement where there's a credit line that's held into um to uh throughout the project that um the town if the applicant, you know, something needs to be done, say the applicant does not
complete at the end of the project for some reason, there's a mechanism to cover those those um those costs. the the town can then draw down on those to to finish up whatever work needs to be conducted finished and that way the
there is no town gets held responsible paying for that or the the homeowners in that current um in the development the um so we've done this t on other projects tripartite agreements with other developments uh we did it with the
John um John John Carol reserve the curly circle project um And so that would run through all the way to the end of the project until you guys give a final sign off, clear it off, and the um and then at that point the bond would they would come back in for a bond
release. And that gets that goes through the whole process. Um in terms of another um one that um Matt actually brought to my attention today was the one for the storm water. >> So these are two separate bonds.
>> They're two separate bonds. So, under our storm water management regulations, it gives um the the planning board the authority to have a um a put in place a bond to cover 5 years worth of the cost
for um the O andM plan um for m operation and maintenance plan for the storm water management. So basically whatever one-year cost for the operation maintenance plan is for one year you multiply that by five that gets put into
a bond which the town then um holds until those 5 years are up. Um I can also make another suggestion for a way that we've done it before is um as the developers we fund that money and put it into the HOA's account and
name the town of air as a um a me like >> uh signer on the account or account holder. There's there's a special way banks do it. Yeah. >> So that you know in the in um you could that gives like the town a little bit more control over the um condo associations and that money
>> for the storm water you're talking about. Yeah. >> Yeah. Just so in the future I mean if that >> um we would have to yeah we could talk about that with finance manager you know they would be probably want to have a word on that but um the mechanism as how
do we do it we can something has to happen >> it's going to happen but it's whether or not you know how we do it we can discuss that with the finance manager. >> Okay. I mean it's just one I don't know it simplifies it maybe a bit but >> yeah whatever has
>> board colleagues comments questions >> so let's go to the first bond >> Mhm. this this the construction bond will cost for instance >> who's going to provide the schedule of values and the estimate. >> So typically what happens is the
applicant and their construction and their um GC will get put together a schedule of values for all of the road work infrastructure everything associated not within the buildings that gets all put together. They provide
that schedule. The applicant would submit that to us. Matt and I and Dan would all review that and the bank would also review that as well. Um, and I'm sure there's going to be some iterations that go back and forth and then eventually a final number gets settled
the bank and then um that gets put into that tripart agreement. >> Okay. Go ahead. No, go ahead. Um so two bonds how will we um this be described in
special conditions? >> Yes. >> And then and will we both be tripartid? >> No. So the the first one would be the tripartite which is the construction one. The storm water one that one there's different mechanisms. We it
could be a cash bond which then the town holds here which we've done as well. Um or it can be an the mechanism that you know the applicant just proposed as well that it gets put into an escrow account with the H with the condominium association and then the town gets is
the snee and can have access to it. But I I we would have to or we can do another kind of just a regular bond. >> There's multiple ways of doing it. >> Okay. But we're going to have a finding in the list of findings and it'll say
bond one bond. >> There'll be a special condition for each of them. >> Yep. Got it. I'll look for this. >> So there's an expectation before we complete the decision in the draft decision even that we'll have the
schedule values of a tripod agreement or a draft of that or something like that. >> I don't >> um I don't think too early. That's too early. >> That's too early. We typically it would be the requirement would be for the tripartite agreement would be prior prior to construction. That would be a
prior to construction thing. >> Thank you. >> And then the shity bond for the storm water. That's post construction. >> We would probably set it to the kind of like what we would with the CR of the final occupancy permit. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> Okay. Any comment any further questions or comments from the board? I'll open up public input or questions or comments regarding the shity bonds. Lori, is there anyone online? >> Um
Beth's hand is up, but I don't know if she still wants. >> Um let me think about how I want to say this. Um I'm wondering about the the various bonds. Um if there were to be a complete
catastrophe of something unplanned, the storm water system doesn't work. We have additional flooding from climate change issues, things that we're trying to plan for, but something happens. Is it possible to have a bond to cover
catastrophes? >> There's no legal mechanism to do that. >> There's no >> state law does not allow us to do that. >> I understand that state law, but do you have um the power of >> that? That right there should be the end
of the conversation right there. >> You can't make a condition. >> No. >> Okay. Uh there's there's a lot of Supreme Court um cases on that where now planning boards are not allowed to enforce um conditions that go above and
beyond their authority. >> Okay. So the research that I did and submitted to you recently um suggests that the town of air is going to be liable if there are such conditions considering this board is approving of all of this and possibly the homeowners
as well. So I am concerned about that. Can this be >> liability of all towns and when they approve a project? That's why we have town council. That's why the process is the process. >> Okay. It's it's everyone's legal right. >> That was actually my next question is
has this been reviewed by town council and if not can it be >> has what >> the bond the way the bond is being um >> Yeah. Oh yeah. The town council will review the tripartite agreement. Yes. And so they'll be reviewing um the wording and the amount.
>> Oh yes. >> Oh yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone online? >> Um Beth has her hands up, but I don't know if she does want to speak. Oh, and we also have Pauline. Uh Rachel, come on up.
>> Hello again. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um I was just wondering um I do apologize I'm not really well versed on bonds um but the conditions that will be set forth um with regard to if there is some sort of difficulty
um is there um is there a capability for the bond to become um revocable um in the sense that um there might be conditions that don't
meet specific speific um situations that might come up. Is it an all-encompassing situation or would there be specific instances that um I guess would qualify um for the bond to be revoked?
>> So, which bond are we talking? >> Um I guess any of the bonds. I think just knowing the the structure of them and the um enforcement might be beneficial. >> Yes. So, so the construction bond, which is the tripartite agreement, that's only through construction. So, if anything
that occurs during construction, the applicant's responsible for handling it. >> Okay? >> That's only the the bond is in place if a say the applicant were to go under and they can't finish the project and worst case scenario, you know, they can't finish and they're
still in the middle of construction. What happens at that point is the town then has the ability to pull that notice that and put draw down whatever it is to that is required for us to finish uh bringing the land to um you know lom
and seed and finish not buildings but kind of you know seal everything up so that it's at a safe and functionable um development at that point. That's the first bond. The second bond that is for post construction. The project has been
built. The project has been signed off for the storm water system. At that point, we have a bond that gets put in place where if um we can use that if you know I believe one of the residents brought up what happens if it's the the
the co uh conservation uh the condominium association isn't maintaining it. Well, we can use that money to to maintain it, to get it fixed, and do whatever it is that needs to be done. >> Understand. Um, and so, uh, with regard
to that, um, is there, um, like is it possible to, I guess, um, revoke the funds? So, um, you know what? >> When you mean, when you revoke, what do you mean? I mean that there's um
>> You mean to actually draw the money down? >> No, I mean that like if the applicant were to say, let's say this particular instance that happened didn't fall underneath the conditions that were set forth by the bond. Um I don't know how detailed bonds are or if there are
specific things. >> Is it an umbrella of saying >> Yeah. So the um can I just pull up that um right there? So the way the the condition reads is The Which bond are you talking about? >> The storm water. >> No, she's not. No, I think she's talking about the other ones.
>> Oh, I totally >> She doesn't know which one she's talking about. Both of them, I guess she's going to say. >> Um, I was curious about both of them. Thank you so much. >> So, construction that occur that's only during construction. There is no >> It seems that one seems straightforward. >> Yeah, that one's straightforward.
There's no if this or if that. That one's if like it's like it's the road. It's specifically spelled out. But just for clarification, >> the documents are spelled out. >> Yes. >> So it has to comply with all the documents that are approved. So the
documents indicate the scope of work, >> what has to be done. So the bond will basically tie into the construction documents. >> Yes. >> All the construction documents. >> All of them. >> Exactly. So >> what you're saying is what if there's something outside the construction? I think that's what you're asking. If
there's something outside the construction documents, >> I wouldn't see the only the only situation I can see outside of the construction documents would be the building like a house >> that it the construction document I mean the construction bond would not cover it. It would maybe cover it for
sealing up a foundation, but that's about it. I It wouldn't be to build the house. It would be seal up the foundation and cover that so that it would be just dirt over it and lman seed. You mean um a house that's constructed?
>> No. Say say the applicant goes under in the middle of they're building one unit that they have a foundation open. >> Oh, okay. Yes, that's what I I was cur Okay, I understand. Thank you. >> So, if if it they go under and they don't they stop all work at that point, there's a foundation that's left open.
That's not safe. We would draw down whatever it is to fill that in, get it brought to grade and dirt lmen seed and make sure that all the areas as well. >> I understand that. Same with like infrastructure whatever is necessary to be brought in you know water sewer whatever is needed to be done.
>> Got it. in terms of the storm water. So for the storm water the way the decision I mean the way the condition would read is a storm storm water maintenance fee or bond may be required to ensure the on andm of the storm water system the fee >> tell me what on and is
>> operation and maintenance plan and so what the operation maintenance plan is it's set forth in the storm water report and it talks about just maintenance of the catch basins all of the BMPs catch basin the coltetech and the basin >> okay >> um and so as part of that There's like
mowing, cleaning out. That's all spelled out in the operation and maintenance plan. >> Yep. >> So this B it would say is the fee or bond would be based on the cost estimate providing the value of 5 years of the O andM for the storm water system. So that
bond would be held in place for the cost of 5 years of that O andM plan. >> Okay. >> And that would be used for maintenance of the BMPs. >> Got it. >> The whole system. Yeah, the whole system. Okay, >> wonderful. And then um just as far as
contingency goes um is it typical for um the condominium association I believe um to establish uh just the parameters uh just handing off the baton, you know, with regard to the set amount of funds
that will be needed to ensure that these projects are wellmaintained. I think Lori kind of I didn't I don't mean to ask for a number, but it just seems like it um just when you're transitioning that it might be um you know something. >> Yeah. So, typically the way it works is
the applicant will have the condominium docs and everything in in place and they will be running that for a couple of months cuz it's they're not going to turn it over right away cuz they're still going to have to close out the projects permits with all of us oper you know whatever permits for storm water
you know they still have to kind of close out all that stuff make sure everything's recorded properly then at that point there's a transition where it turns over to the condominium association there's trustees that voted on, put on the board, and those people
are in then at that point in charge of handling the the the funds for the project. But by that point, the funds will have already been listed out for all of the condominium association fees that goes into an account that is then
used to maintain the property. >> Okay, I understand. >> Any condo. >> Pardon me? >> Any condo. Sorry. >> Yeah, any condo. >> Okay. Any condo. Okay. Um, wonderful. Thank you so much. >> Anyone on screen? Um, Beth has her hand
up. Beth, do you want to speak? >> Yes. Thank you. Um, so I I can't find the wording that you're referring to for the storm water um perpetual bond. >> So, page six of our storm water
regulations. Um, C, storm water maintenance charity. >> All right. because I I you know certainly I'm familiar with other towns that have have bonded in such instances for a perpetual um you know in case of
emergency type of um pull of funds that the town could go to to reimburse themselves for emergency response associated with failure of systems. >> Yeah, that's what this would basically be, >> right? Well, I think you said 5 years of maintenance, so that wouldn't be enough
to handle catastrophe. Um but again you might be limited to that. I just haven't looked at the exact language. Um and then you know again related to that in this uh perpetual um obligation and operations which will
be the duty of the um association. um that you know again you know with this this the level of liability I guess associated with the steep slopes and things on this site not having geotechnical review and geotechnical peer review and things like that. Um
that we want to make sure again that the language of the conservation restriction and any other restrictions allow the access of the town to this site to be able to take those actions apart from the typical conservation restriction type um you know access and then that
the town can be reimbursed for the expenditures which they might incur um above and beyond that that bond amount. So just just something to think think through um very carefully. And then I don't believe that you mentioned but I
believe it would be the practice that once the um contractor and applicant submit the schedule of the cost estimates for all of these um both the triparty agreement as well as
the bond that um town staff reviews it and comes to a determination of appropriateness but that the board actually is the one that would vote to establish what those amounts are. >> Um, I would have to check with the finance
manager to see what the process has. Ben, >> I believe it's in the bylaw for the performance bond that that's the process. >> I I'll have to double check that. If that's so, then that would be the process. >> Okay. So, usually just tried to condition, you know, the way that the um
the wording is in the the the bylaw to the extent. Okay. Possible. Paulie. >> Yes. >> Good evening and thank you for taking my call. Um, I want to follow up on Lori
Nearing's I'm going to rephrase it as a plus one, Danny, since you mentioned that, but um, I believe the planning board has received a lot of correspondence pertaining to this particular development.
question. Is that a question or statement? >> Yes, it's a question. >> Yeah. >> What's the question? >> Yes, we have received letters. Yes, we have. >> All right. And how do how does the public access those?
>> Uh, as of right now, a foyer request >> and I've made that request about 20 days ago. >> Okay. I I'm not in charge of that. I'm I I don't deal with foyer requests. Uh well, it's not a foyer request. It's
a public records request, >> which is which is a foyer request. >> You've received you've received a number of correspondence from residents, I presume. >> Yes. >> Regarding this development, I'm not I just wanted to make that part of it. How do you plan to make that part of the
public record, Mr. CR? >> Um I don't we going to post them or >> No, we don't post them on the website. Typically the process is they're either addressed by me or they're addressed by the applicant if the if it's a question or the peer reviewer that needed to have
it and then it gets put into the record of in my files that I have. >> So it's possible Mr. Ree that you have responded to these uh correspondence. So, as I stated at the last meeting, I
respond to just about every email that I receive. And I'm pretty sure every a butter here can attest to that. I respond to just about every email. The planning board is sees every email that goes out in my response. So, yes.
>> All right. Well, that's great. I appreciate that. You've not responded to my last two, so I'll >> Well, they were directed to Robert, not to me. >> Well, you were copied. And I think that's not directed at me. You specifically direct. >> All right. I'm not going to get into
argument with >> I will not argue with you, but you are the town planner and the administrator to the planning board. I will follow up and please send me those correspondents.
>> Thank you. >> Anyone else? >> Um I believe there was another hand. Oh, wait. Did it disappear? >> No. Oh, Katherine. >> Hi. Yeah, Katherine Grten Harvard Road. Um, for the bond, is it that it is the
bond will only be in effect for five years or that the value of the bond is equal to five years worth of maintenance. >> The value of the bond is for five years. >> So, it'll be So, when someone mentioned in perpetuity, it's gonna the bond will
be in existence for so long as well forever. >> That's that's correct. Great. Thank you. >> All right. Stormwater peer review. >> Want to bring us up to date with where we are and where we're going? >> All right. We've got Yesim Jim. Thanks for being uh patient. Um I'd also like
to have Matt up this up for this one as well. >> He's patient, too. >> I know. Um so the applicant um and so the applicant responded to the last peer review comments. They were
then reviewed by and and they revised plans. They were then reviewed and uh by Jim Thorne from Green International and out of that conversation or out of that review there were two comments that were left open. Um they had addressed
all other comment uh all of the other comments that were set in the peer review. There's comment 27 and comment 42 I believe. So, the applicant did um re uh send an email to Jim and Jim did
clarify that on that email what those concerns were for those two comments. Um it came down to uh basically the first one which is 27. So, this one it talks about um this is uh about the uh I'll
kind of let Matt handle this one. This is kind of more >> technical >> more technical. Um, >> okay. You want me to just give a a quick overview? Yeah. And also just with the peer review just so people um understand what the what the peer reviewer did. >> Yes. >> So the peer reviewer um
>> they looked at all the applicants um plans, storm water management plan calculations, everything and they made sure everything was complete. They compared it to uh town regulations, state regulations, federal regulations,
and basically did like yes, meets it, doesn't meet it. Here's the comments, and from there, there's back and forth making sure things are properly addressed. So, that's kind of the whole that's what that table is, and that's what Jim um that that's really his work
on this project as a peer reviewer. Um, >> so as they were doing that process, they were going back and forth between you, the applicants engineer, and Danny and whatnot in a sequence of step by step and double-checking each of these lines that they created with this rather large
Excel spreadsheet, if you want to call it that. >> It that's exactly it. >> Okay, thank you. And so, you know, um based on so there's there's these two open comments based um from
the last re review. Um Matt on um I believe at this point the so the applicant has agreed to um that 42 can be addressed. Basically on that one, it's um updating some of the um numbers
within the um storm water report versus the AutoCAD, making sure our inverts are matching. And so what would happen is that the applicant would re would submit those and make sure that those are fully addressed. That would be a condition as well. Um that those are um revised
because it's more clerical to make sure that those all match. In terms of the other comment which was can I pause >> so is DPW satisfied with that response is that >> yes so just from our perspective that's something that does need to be addressed
but it's not a like I wouldn't describe it as like a big picture um comment that's going to result in like >> I'll make a comment on that just to say that if I revise those numbers as
um Mr. Thorne as Mr. Thorn has described how he would like to see them. >> We're not talking about the 90% one. >> No, no, no. I'm talking about the pipe inverts. Yes. >> And h how we do uh in in this the the
hydroad calculations. >> I made I I ran those calculations. I had them on the sheet of paper and I'll give you the the most the the largest difference is in the 100 year and it's 700s and it's still way beyond the
pre-existing conditions. >> 7 hundreds of an inch >> 700s CF cubic feet per second. >> Okay. >> And if you if you look at TR55 they didn't go further than one cfs. we
now calculate to two hundreds to to to two decimal places which is way beyond any accuracy. So we're we're here talking about things that really are somewhat irrelevant. >> Yeah. I guess I guess my concern with
that is um I wasn't really concerned with the peak rate with that update. I was more concerned about sorry the the peak elevation and knowing that the outlet pipe is now going to be higher
than what was modeled and making sure that the peak elevation rate peak elevation is still within the basin and that the basin is not over topping for the hundredyear storm. Uh that was that was my only concern for that comment. So
if the if the basin isn't going to over top for the 100red-year storm then then that should satisfy the comment >> certainly does not. >> Okay. And that was 42. >> Yeah, that was 42. So the other comment which is the you know one that was kind
of more important and >> yeah which Matt felt needed to be addressed. This was kind of the confusion with the static method, the the the the way the calculation was being done of the 1 in for the
impervious and the TSS removal. So in in after Jim's email of asking what the kind of the clarification was in the end it was whether or not they were meeting the 90% of what the town's regulation was. And so in his email, his question
was whether um 90% was at pre-treatment prior to the basin and the BMPPS or post. So I would turn this over to Matt on this one >> because I believe they're meeting they're they're at 85% before for
pre-treatment which is higher than the storm water handbook of the 80%. And the 90% that's set in our regulation is not for pre-treatment uh before the chambers. It's at the end of the line. >> That's that's exactly right. So this was
kind of just this comment was like I should say the this comments kind of evolved over time, but that was really kind of the leave the um the last part of it was just interpretation of like the town's regulation for storm water
treatment. um how much needs to be treated before it actually leaves the site. So um we I I think we've all landed on an understanding that um that 90% number was the the requirement for leaving the site
versus going into the infiltration chamber. So I know it's a very nitty-gritty comment, but that's what it was. So this comment, the reason I thought it was important was it as it's I mean it's really been about the storm water infiltration system. I know there's been a lot of comments on that. I just want to make sure it's addressed
properly and and settled. >> Okay. >> And I think, you know, based on the email from Jim was if that's if that is okay with that 90% is at the end or you know cuz they're doing 85 then the
comment is addressed. >> Yes. Just from my interpretation of the the regulations their proposal does meet it. That's that's correct. And this comment is addressed. >> So Jim, is that your understanding that
these two comments are now sufficiently addressed? >> Yeah, I was I was leaning that way as well. I just didn't want to say it because I want to get the town input as well. >> Okay. >> Uh thank you. Questions or comments from
the board? >> This is about as technical as you can get. breaking this down into whatever number of lines we have here. 70 or 80 lines. >> We're at four pages of comments >> from our most technical number. >> Wow.
>> Right. >> Yeah. >> You know, can I can I say one thing? >> Yeah. >> Um it is highly technical and Ian and Jim have worked really really hard, but I think they both agreed that in the end that it's an excellent system that is
going to be installed. So with you know with what Ian designed and Jim's input into it, Ian said we talked about it yesterday said it's certainly you know this is it's a great system. >> Yeah. So with Jim suggestions so I'm I am glad that we went through the whole
peer review and though it was very detailed and very frustrating at times I think it was resulted in a um storm water system that everybody feels really comfortable with. And I I just want to underline the point that this storm water system has got
it's been seen by at least three different engineering groups. First we have the stamp from Ian himself, right? Your your your engineer. Then we have a review from DPW if they're engineers. And then finally we have Jim Thorne from
Green. So that's three reviews stamped from licensed professionals. Okay. Thank you. Uh any questions on the border? >> No. >> I'll open up for public comment on this these specific aspects of the storm
water. >> Anyone on >> this is really I would do the room first. >> Okay. >> Lori. >> Hi. >> The only one. I think this is related to the topic um
through the board Lori Naring. Um I am still confused about once the water comes down to the Caltech system. I understand that there's been flooding on Graten Harvard road that's going to be addressed hopefully by all of this. I
don't really understand what the path of water is from the Caltech system through the through the pipes. I think they go under Graten Harvard Road and then it all gets released eventually into Flanigan's Pond. Is that correct?
>> Um yeah. So it so basically the way it works is yeah once it gets to the basin down below down at Graten or not the basin the the cult system here there um it will go into a chamber into the ground >> into the ground. The only way it goes
overflows into the um culvert that's on um to that would leave the site is if there's excess amount of water um like a multiple uh storms occur or high a high level storm 100year storm um right is
that Ian the trigger is a 100year storm at that point. >> Yeah. Yeah. uh an intense storm would um overflow. >> And so what would happen is that would overflow and then go into the um covert that's under the ground. As part of this
agreement, as part of this decision would be that the applicant would provide monetary funds for the for the town to create a design for the plan. Um but the applicant would be would handle or um the the condition was
>> Yeah. Do you want me to you know the condition on that one better than I do? >> So what the applicant has on their property for storm water controls has been reviewed and we feel comfortable at least I do um >> with what they have the street system um
is it's definitely not to today's standards like most old drain. >> Certainly not the standard >> um a portion of it in the street. So, um it's it'd basically be upsizing a pipe um in the street as well as um some work
off of the street where it goes into Flanigan Pond just to make it all um today today's standards if that makes sense. >> So, is is there um going to be h how does it get to the pond? Does it follow a conduit?
>> It's part of the AC. It is connected to this because overflow will happen. Yeah, there's um >> Is there a pipe or is it a a trench that carries the water? >> That's helpful.
>> It It's okay. Let them >> You want me to go? >> Yeah. I'm trying to pull it up right now. So, >> sure. Um, so basically the way it works is the the catch the culvert runs underneath this ground and comes out to right here which
is actually on the um Flynn's property which is uh 38 >> 35 >> 35. Thank you. >> 35. >> Yeah, we're here. >> We can we can address this. >> Yeah, you haven't been recognized yet after Lori, please. Thank you. >> Yeah. Um, and then the the water runs
through a a ditch that runs along this property. I know Matt uh went out there and met with the um but with the neighbors and there are concerns about maintenance on that area. >> Okay. >> Um would need to be cleaned up and maintained. Um but once it goes through
there, it would go into Flanigan. >> Okay. So they're kind of two separate issues, but they're connected and one supports the other. >> Yes. >> Okay. Can I make a comment, Mr. T? >> Yes. >> Isn't it a fact that the drainage coming down the Graten Harvard road goes to the exact same place that we're talking
about that there are catch basins and manholes down the Graten Harvard road all lead to that one spot, not just the project. I don't want the confusion of thinking that the one project that's in front of us is the only project connected to that system.
>> That's correct. That's that's that's my >> So, it's collecting water down the street. those driveways. There's 10 lots up there that are the driveways are pitched to the street. All that water is coming down the graten road. This happens to be the end of that system >> with a it's got a manhole there with a
greater cover on top >> goes to a head wall on the property and all that water goes whatever's >> handling and and the thing is on this one since it was not maintained properly that's why that area is uh so it's
really overgrown. it doesn't really um go where it's supposed to go and as part of that we've had discussions about getting that addressed. >> Okay. But this one this project we're looking at is a element piece of what happens on that whole system. >> Correct.
>> Thank you. >> The bottom line is hopefully all of this is going to be addressed and that flooding should be relieved because of combination of what you're doing to clear the c the >> the drainage ditch. >> The Yeah. The ditch and and a larger cut
a larger storm water basin, a larger storm, a larger pipe. >> A larger pipe. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And there's there's also this is within the back side of that property is within the flood plane. So there already is a FEMA flood map that shows that back
portion of that property is flood plane. So there is a component of that as well. >> And does this require any ACE oversight or extra regulations? It's part of a maintenance thing. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay.
>> Thank you. >> Yes. >> Hi and welcome. >> Thank you. >> So, um Anthony Flen Harvard Road. I am I I have that um that >> that that uh property, you know, we have
that property that deals with all this. Unfortunately, the 100redyear storm happens. We've been there for three years. And in that time, we've had uh three different floodings in the first year
that our our basement because I didn't see anything there that uh that uh that said about the underground water cuz the uh the last one cuz now we have a generator because of all this constant
thing. There was a a time two years ago we were we were away from and it was a summer it was a spring day. It was it was sunny. So, there was no reason that we came back with 3 in of water in our basement because of the overflow. We
have two different areas. One at the base of our driveway and one at the um in our basement, which is a well, uh two two sub pumps on this one, one sub pump on this one. During the spring, they are constantly going like every day, 24
hours a day. And that's my biggest concern is nowhere in the records does it show the underground water that um that is there. And then of course >> just before you get to your next point just so that uh back. So on the
groundwater it was tested there were deep holes uh test pits that were done and conducted by the applicant but witnessed by the um by the town engineer. And basically what that does is it measures where the high ground where the high mean high ground water is and it tells you what the highest point
of where that water is on that in the area. So they did test a a test pit hole down here which is why they lifted the b the um the uh >> the cult chamber in that area to make sure that they had enough ground cover
for there to be enough infiltration to stay in there. Well, I I'm seeing firsthand that in the last 3 years. >> So, in your side of the property, it's very possible that it's higher. >> Unfortunately, all the plans were conveniently stopped at the at that street and never address anything beyond
that. And I want to see the the town, the government, everyone uh take a look at our part, our side of the because there's that whole area that wasn't addressed at all anywhere in this. So,
um, legally they're responsible for their site. We can't require them to look at offsite downstream of the property. The only thing that the storm water standards by the state that they enforce and our regulations is they cannot increase the
amount of water leaving their site from existing to post. They're actually reducing it. In your in your lot, you're right. You may have higher groundwater than they have over there because you're down by Flanigan's Pond. So, >> but that is that is an existing
condition on your property that they are not responsible for. >> Okay? Cuz we cuz now we're uh part of that flood plan. Uh as of July, we now have to pay the flood insurance and everything and we didn't in the past and now all of a sudden we're going to be
adding more water into the into the pond. No, they're going to they're reducing the amount of water. >> Well, >> it's based on the calculations based on the peer reviewer based on >> but you >> they are reducing the amount of water
>> but it nothing shows beyond the street >> because it's not we cannot do that. >> Why? >> That's that's the state laws storm water regulations. They're responsible for their property and the watershed map.
they are responsible for upstream because they have to address what's coming down that hill. So they're addressing upstream of everything. So they like uh the VA so their watershed map I can pull up the plan just so that everyone can see what I'm talking about.
>> But why weren't our properties on the >> Excuse me. No one can talk except those recognized by the chair here. >> I understand. I I just want to make sure that everyone's on the same page. >> I I'm I'm sorry. I'm new at this in this whole thing cuz nowhere did it say did
it say that our area especially since now um this whole um cuz 2 years ago I was out there with a with just a shovel trying to dig out a path so that our backyard was it was part of Flanigan
Pond for a long time. Our shed was its own little island >> and that's my biggest concern. >> I and I understand that. So let me just explain the kind of the process. So this map shows what the watershed map that they are responsible for under state and federal regulations and town
regulations. They have to address this watershed and based on that so they have some from other people's property. They have the VA up here and then they have these other existing. So these catchments uh are all what they're responsible for. they are not
responsible for reviewing downstream um conditions as long as they are meeting the state regulation of not increasing what is currently out there based and that's how the state does it because if you're not increasing the
amount of water that's leaving the site precondition pre um construction then it shouldn't have an impact post construction I I agree >> they're They're reducing the amount of water that's going to be leaving the
site. So, it should better it should help the conditions in the area. I can't speak for what your groundwater is. That's based because you're right next to Flanigan Pond. >> So, how how can we be assured cuz right
now I mean we're we're good if >> the storm water peer review that's that's what we all have to rely on. So, if the storm water peer review messed up and we're now part of Flynnan, >> that would that would assume that Matt,
the peer reviewer, and Ian were all wrong. >> Okay. >> So, >> and and I I understand where you're coming from, but we have to follow what you know what is set before us. There's a peer reviewer that we h that was hired
an independent has no ties. They reviewed it. They're approved. They they are at the point where they're saying they're okay with it. We can't now start saying, "Well, I think we need to >> Well, they did address that. They never went past that street." And that's my
biggest my biggest concern. >> That's how it's it's not illegal. >> So, we become Planet Big Pond and it's so sad. Too bad. >> That's not what we're saying. What we're saying is we're following the state laws. >> Can I make a comment?
>> Yes. Um your your lot is at the end of where the water comes out and um that pipe at this point is half full filled with sand. So a lot of the
water is being held back from flowing down to the pond. And because it's being held back, you are accumulating groundwater. The intention here is to collect all
that water that is is is collecting there by that catch basin, putting it into the ground, putting a larger pipe so that it flows faster and the pipe is cleaned and it will bypass
your house. That's the intention. Would you agree with that, Matt? >> Yes. Um, and just to add to that with the drainage ditch um on the property um the town actually has easement where
that drainage ditch is. So, it's actually the town's responsibility to maintain that drainage ditch and just my understanding just being out there, it clearly hasn't been well maintained. >> Um, what am I recommending conditions? I know it wouldn't necessarily mean it would
absolutely be approved of it'll be in there. >> Um would be um some funds for actually making that drainage ditch uh property to where it was before the maintenance issues started happening if that makes any sense. >> Yeah. So, so the water can flow and not
be backed up cuz right now it's being backed up. It's being backed up by the pipe being filled with sand. It's being backed up with the the catch basin not being able to collect all the runoff and it's sitting on the street and it goes into the ground and and that is really
what is going to what affects you now that all of this is actually going to be opened up to the to to the ditch and and the ditch which will bypass your house will stop it from collecting at your house. The level of groundwater will
never really change. and the ground water is essentially stays the same as it always has for thousands of years. So that that that is not going to change. But at least the backing up of that storm water is being taken care of with
this project. Well, I mean I'm I know firsthand that that's not the case. It there is no path to Flanigan Pond right now. It goes through a jungle at the beginning, does a little snake thing, goes in the back,
and then finds a wall. So, there is And I like I like I mentioned, I was there two years ago with a little shovel trying to dig out and I couldn't get anywhere. >> I mean, I think that's what Matt said is they would clean that out.
>> Yes. But that needs to be done before anything else goes on cuz right now water would go into our backyard. >> Have you been calling the town about this to get >> I have been How long have you been calling? >> For years since we got here and every
time it goes to deaf ears and finally until this started Matt uh Matt was able to come in and take a look. But I've been trying for 3 years since we got here because of how big of an issue it was. We've we've only been >> he reached out to me and I put him in
contact with Matt. >> Okay. But it's >> but this was after 2 years of me trying cuz I kept on calling and they said, "Yeah, we'll get you to the right person and then crickets and then I would call back again and and again." So unfortunately
we we've been trying to address it since we purchased the house. So for the >> just to speak I guess on public works behalf I think it was probably a misunderstanding of kind of the extent of the maintenance issue I think at the street where the the drain flows into the ditch that
that's always been backed up so we cleaned that out but I think the whole ditch itself hasn't kind of what we'd like to accomplish as part a condition of this project if that >> I don't agree I I think it should be done right now I don't if he's been
calling the town for 3 years. That's before this drives. You keep on books. >> So, it should be fixed by the town if it's a town easily. >> But no, no, I understand where you're coming from, but you should fix it. >> I don't think we have to condition it and wait for >> Well, no, no, no. The condition of the
culvert is going to be >> How did you fix it? >> The the condition of the culvert that that's going to be put it the terms of the the cleaning of that. >> That's kind of up to the board as to how you guys want to handle that. But honestly, I would like to see that if you know, since
if it does, well, regardless if it goes or not, before any but any boots on the ground, I would, you know, we would like to see that be addressed. So that because we've seen it uh two years ago, like I said, we had no backyard.
>> It was basically underwater, >> right? So >> let me let me just say one thing that >> and that's why this is >> yeah I mean we we have we have a responsibility agreed with Matt as to what we're going to do but his problem is really not our
problem. So we should we should >> and I think that's what Ken is saying that's what Ken is saying that he's saying that it should be addressed now by the town. >> Please can please no one can speak except the ones recognized by the >> Yeah. I just wanted to just reiterate
there's a sound bar up here that picks up a lot of the noise in the um and when we're recording that's why we I asked at the beginning. I know some people may have not been here but try to keep the talking to the minimum in the back. Um so h I don't know how the board wants
to handle that. I would have to have a conversation with Dan um regarding the um the time of of having them go out there and do it because it's not a simple just do it right away cuz there would be conservation that they would need to go through.
>> Um there'd be approvals for that. So it's not like something that would just happen tomorrow. >> Well, no. But we put the conditions in our decision. >> Mhm. >> They're there. >> Yeah. >> But before those conditions come about, the town should be proactive. That's my
point. 100% agree. I'm just saying that we'll have to talk to Dan about getting that done right away, but it's not it's probably not going to be a tomorrow kind of thing. It's just that the timing on that, they have to go through conservation on that. >> Yeah. If you want me to walk you through
every step of what would have to be done on that, >> happy to do it, but I don't want to waste any time. >> So, the board would be saying would would ra would prefer that it gets done now, right? >> I would prefer that it gets done. That's what I'm saying. >> Not not the conditions of our
>> No, no, no. It can't be. >> You're talking about >> separate separately. We I would encourage >> we wouldn't we can't condition it to be done now. >> Exactly. I would Matt and I will talk to Dan and we'll set up a meeting with Dan and um and then we'll come um also contact you to
to discuss this about timing on getting that done. >> Yes. And cuz we we've been >> Yeah. We've been swimming in our backyard. I I wish I wish I knew sooner cuz like >> obviously I didn't know until we we spoke a couple months ago. So
>> because it it I kept on calling and I guess I didn't get the right department and they kept on everywhere >> and it just went to deaf ears and then eventually I was able to get in touch with you. Yeah. >> So >> so it was uh
>> I'll make sure that this gets addressed. I we will Matt and I will meet with Dan the the DPW director. We'll talk about this and about getting this on like started going as quickly as we can cuz there is going to be some approvals that need to be done through conservation. So, we'll we'll try to expediate this as
quickly as I can. >> That's if this does go through and and and everything, we want to make sure that like I said, we're not part of Flanigan. >> Mhm. All right, I think that's it.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> There's uh I think everyone in the room is We have uh several hands on here. First one is Katherine Yates. >> Hi. Um
Katherine Yates brought in Harvard. So, the first um thing I I need to say is that I haven't I'm in a butter. I'm in the bottom. It's hard for me to kind of assess where this is, but the bottom left corner property. I haven't received any of the notices for these planning
board meeting uh meetings. Um >> a neighbor sent me a screenshot of one back in May, so I was able to jump on really quickly. And then after that, I contacted the town uh cuz I don't live in the in the house there. So I learned then that I needed
to update my address with all the different departments in order to that. >> Yeah. So it may have been that the fact that the assessor's map, I mean the assessor's office doesn't have your current um address, they would mail it to whoever is shown on the assessor's
map right now as the owner. And it if if the owner shows you living in the house, it would have been sent to that house, >> right? So, I think that's what I figured out, but I figured that out back in May. So, I don't know if there has been a meeting since May, but the woman I spoke
to said she was the one in charge of making all the addresses and >> whatnot. And I had updated my address with her and I still haven't received any of the notices. I just got information about today because it was on a Facebook page. >> Yeah. So, let me clarify on that. We don't notify for every meeting. They we
only notify for when the public hearing is being opened. Um there's not a process. It's not it's not a weekly notification to every auter. We o we their legal the state statute is to notify abutters when the public hearing
is open and then after that it's posting the agenda on town on the town website and town board and that's that's kind of the notice on how it gets out. >> That's notice. Okay. All right. Um and so then I have a couple of questions with this. Um some of it some of my
questions were already clarified um with the previous discussion. The So I understand that the storm water cannot be increased the leaving the the property that's being developed. What if
it is is it is there any risk or is there assessment of it being diverted? So, the amount of the storm water that would be leaving the property is is going to be the same or less. But my concern is that the grade of the land, I had an engineer look at it and it all
kind of flows to my property. So, I'm concerned that this that that there's going to be an increased amount flowing in that direction if it's not adequately diverted to these drains or cauldrons or
basins. What's your address again? >> 28 Grten. So, it's that bottom left >> or >> this one right here? >> It's so hard for me to see. It's Yeah, it's that square across from the
Kazera's um driveway easement. Right. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. We share there. We have that little that little tiny funny piece of land that is is the eastment to get them behind. Yeah. Um, so in terms of the the
water, I would say Matt on this one, the water where it's naturally going already, there's not going to be uh water's not going to be going in that direction or added water is not going in that direction. >> Correct. It's uh >> it's all being funneled towards >> Yeah. No water from our site ends up on
that lot. >> Can I get that in writing? >> No. >> That's not right. >> No. No water as a result of the change to the construction. >> Existing conditions >> existing condition is what there's going to be water going.
>> So So Katherine the existing condition states as exist as as it is now it should say. >> Yes. >> Right. Right. Right. Okay. So that was going to be kind of my next question is what percentage of the of the storm water from the project is being diverted to these cauldrons? Is it or I'm saying
cauldrons but basins whatever. >> Yeah. All of it. Yep. >> All of it. 100% of it. Okay. >> All of the of the developed area. >> Developed area. Yes. >> Right. Right. Because there's obviously natural I mean we all have water down there. So there's natural water that's
going to be flowing um or that that does right now. Um Okay. And so I've heard a bit about this the overflow concern. So, in the same kind of sense, if there's an overflow
situation, does that how how does that how is that addressed? I'm sorry that I don't know it because >> Yeah. So, it won't affect it won't affect your lot. It would it's basically the discussion we just had. So, if if >> Okay. >> So, the the direction of where it goes
is along that into that culvert along the property that of the um of the fins that we just spoke about. >> Okay. So, it's all diverted there and and to your point that this has all been peer- reviewviewed. We've had you guys have hauled all the experts in looking
at it and and whatnot and that's essentially what's being relied upon. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Those are my questions. Thank you. >> Um uh Beth. >> Oh, okay. Beth, >> yeah, it just she was next on the list. >> Oh, she was okay.
>> Yeah. Hi. Um I just want to clarify one point. I know that there had been comments um in the past about requiring additional test pits and I I just want to make sure that those were all adequately done and um you know data
data looked good because I just wanted to make sure that you know additional test pits wouldn't be part of the conditions cuz a site like this is just difficult. >> Not on this site. >> Not on this site. No, the the the test pits were all done. All done. And they they looked good. Town and Green have
reviewed those. Okay. >> Um on the tie into the MS4 system. Um so so it's been confirmed that there's no increase in the rate or the volume
>> reaching the MS4 system. >> Yeah. >> Rate and volume. >> That's what the pair review has stated. >> Okay. And then um is there a separate MS4 connection permit that the DPW issues?
>> Uh no, not not for private developments. >> But but that's the thing is when a private development connects to the town system, usually that's a separate step. No, >> you're talking about um like a direct like pipe connection into the town
drainage system. Is that >> or this is this is an instance of it draining to a catch basin or a pipe, right? >> Um >> so it's a contribution. >> Yeah, public works. We would only need
some sort of permit if it's like somebody trying to directly connect their drainage into a pipe, not if their water flows, I guess, across their property and then into the down storm drain. >> Okay, that makes sense. So in that case then you know it's the conditions of the
planning board permit that really need to consider all of your um requests for maintenance and um you know adequacy of um of what will happen within the town system. >> Yep. We require that on all an IB
project in a storm water management permit. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Um last I I see is Adam Hi there. Um, Adam Carrier, 57 Cambridge Street. Um, uh, two things. The, um,
this review, uh, it cover, does it cover the period of construction as well as once everything's already built? Cuz one of my concerns as an abuter is if we get one of these hundredyear storms as they're, you know, starting to break ground and but haven't put in all the
drainage yet, what could be the results? >> Yeah. So that what handles that is the SWIP report, the NIFTY's permit which gets reviewed by EPA, the federal government. Um they submit that. There's also our storm water management permit
which requires um inspections for the erosion control during construction. They submit that information to us weekly to us. We review it. We do um we walk the line to make sure that there's no um over topping. If there is, they have to fix it. So all of these um this
is what handles storm water during construction. >> Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. Um also I heard a statement that um was to my knowledge quite wrong. Uh groundwater I believe fluctuates seasonally and from
year to year. It is not the same over the course of thousands of years. Um that might be true of the aquafer deep underground but the sort of groundwater we're dealing with changes quite frequently. is my understanding though I am no expert admittedly. Thank you. >> Ground water moves up and down.
>> Yeah, good. That's why there's a there's a measurement of mean high ground water. >> Yeah. >> Uh let me sorry there's no one else. Yeah. >> Michael Goang 34 Graten Harvard Road. Um
the storm water the you said a what is it 100% or whatever of your developed uh development is going to have the water contained. >> Can you pull up >> of the impervious area >> impervious area go to their new
construction >> I don't know what page it is maybe third then >> for the site plan just kind of showing the overall plan. >> Show me where the catch basins are. Yeah, >> that one. >> So, there is a catch basin. Wow. >> Yeah, there's 11 catch basins.
>> Yeah, there's uh So, there's one here. There's one there. There's one area um catch basin there. There's one in this road right there. There's one in this corner. There's another in this corner. >> Um there is
>> two over here. >> Two plexes. >> There's one up here. Yep. There's um one right in this area by the duplexes. There's another one right here. And there's another one right here. >> Right. So all all the the outer surrounding area where the houses are on
the bottom part there. >> This right here. >> Yeah. Yeah. And according to the the top topographical map. >> Yep. >> Water is going to basically that's on top of rock. So, it's in my opinion, the
water is going to go into the ground, into the grass, and go down the rock and still end up going. You can't possibly say that that whole area is going to be caught full of water. So, a lot of those spots, the water is going to go into the
ground and hit the rock and follow the slope of the rock down to P12 and to Katherine Yates's yard and so forth. So, you can't say that the open space is the only space that's going to give her water as well as anybody else. Part of
that development is going to be going into the rock down through the grass and down the slope. You also have to consider if you're going to put water going down into the cult. That's one thing cuz yes, you're filtering it at
the infiltration bas infiltration basin. Say that 10 times fast. Um, you have a filter for oil up there. SC1, right? SC, whatever it's called. >> All right. So, you got the oil there. You got the phosphorus and everything
else in the infiltration basin. Going to the >> catch basin >> and the catch basin as well. >> Um, Coltech has it covered, I guess, to some extent. I don't understand that one that well. But >> then you have all the other open space that's going to funnel down to between
my property and the cult basin and hopefully get maneuvered to the drain. Hopefully, right? Otherwise, it sits there and we have the problem of the water in our basement, which we've already talked about.
The problem that you might have is if you continue to cover everything and force it to the Flynn's side, you're talking about all that open space is going there as well. You're also going to have a certain amount of water
from their development which is going to be subjected to salts uh uh fertilizers whatever else human beings make a mess of on their property is going to filter down I say filter it's going to go down through the grass
along the rock out down there and now you are pumping more possible contaminants into Flanigan pond which might be a problem. So, that's a valid concern. I mean, I think we can do a requirement, a condition that no fertilizers or herbicides, you know,
I've seen that on many um uh restrictions because this does go into Flanigan pond, which is a valid concern there. I think we could do a restrict a a condition. Sorry, I'm we can do a condition that um you know, no no
fertilizers, no herbicides or no um I think that's kind of that covers most of it. The conservation commission they have a standard I think that they are using around town a suggested waiter for for fertilizers and stuff like that. Doesn't conservation have a standard? >> The state does. We do not have a
fertilizer bylaw because the state really doesn't allow you to. >> Okay. So, yeah, we could do that could definitely put a condition that would that would definitely >> Well, it's something you should be aware of, right? I mean, >> that could come back and bite you. >> It's a long way, but it is what it is.
>> I mean, but it's it it is a valid concern. >> Okay. And also, like I said, water going to Catherine's property and Kazera's property as well is not just the open space. You're going to have a
certain amount of that water from their development that's going to still get through the rock and go underneath everything >> where currently it currently goes. So, it the existing is not going to increase. That's so that's the requirement. But I'm just clarifying when he says,
>> "Yep." >> Oh, it's all contained in this spot. >> No, it's not. It's not. It's going to get through. >> Make one clarification here. >> If you look at the topography on Katherine Yates >> uh on on on that plan
>> and and and I don't want to sit here and show you the direction of all the runoff. There is no runoff from the developed site that goes to Katherine Yates's lot. The topography makes it perfectly clear, but I'm I'm not going to I'm not going to explain it. I mean, uh, it it
bypasses her lot. Some of the open space certainly goes to it, but none from from from the developed lot. And all paved surfaces, all roof surfaces including road salts and everything else
is collected by catch basins, by infiltration basin and cultic chambers. And those are are the the the the fact that we collect the first inch of runoff is to collect the salts and the
fertilizers and and all contaminants. And that's what the purpose of doing these calculations. And when you when when you have the town regulations which is way more severe than the state, uh I
think that is perfectly adequate as in compared to any other town. Yours is about the most strict town I've come across. So >> Mhm. Exactly. Well, I wish you would show me that, but
I don't I'm not an expert at that. I admittedly I'm not an expert, but it looks to me just from the elevations, it's going to go that way. It all goes downhill. It's eventually going to get there, but okay, I've said my piece. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> It's getting late, folks. Please, >> as long as it's not a new got to be new because it's 9:00. >> Yeah, we're all tired. >> We all are tired. As long I we just no repeating. Let's try to >> Yep.
>> Actually, Rachel first. >> Yeah, >> it's okay. Lori, I'd like to open. >> Okay, Lori. >> This is a continuation of what back >> y >> this is a continuation of what Michael was was saying. So, I appreciated that. I was studying these maps very closely
in the last few days and I was enlarging things that I was not able to read before and I noticed um something that concerns me and I'm just going to put this on the board because you may think it's addressed but I'm I'm concerned like Michael is um in the location of
the houses I think it's 32 the ones that are directly next to the infiltration basin at the top of the hill those no uh yes those houses right there. >> So that's where there's a valley right now that does carry groundwater downhill
toward the Goang's property. And the fill that's required to bring that up to the right level is 22 ft. >> 22 ft of fill. Yes. Look at the map. It's it's what Danny, you're saving your head. I looked at it. If you look at the
elevation >> Lori, can you can you one second? He's going to clarify this because it's that's not correct. Hang on a second. >> The number that you anticipated for the fill, where did you get those numbers from? >> The top of the current topography map
>> versus the top of concrete. >> Topography map. And look at the small numbers. >> Yep. This right there. So, let me clarify. >> Want me to do it? You want to do it? >> These are top of concrete, which means the top of the foundation. Those are all walkout basements. So what you're
comparing is 10 ft higher than what's actually the bottom of where the walkout basement is. >> The number I'm looking at the number said >> that's top of concrete. These are all walkout basements. So basically what you're looking at is the first floor
elevation of when they're walking into the building. The basement the bottom of that that's 10 ft about 10 ft lower than that number. Where's the soil going to be for the house >> underneath that? So 10 ft lower than that three that um 321.
So it's only going to be So that's um it's right there is 300. So it's like 10 ft, right? >> You misunderstood the number on the house. You I think you thought I don't I'm not sure what you thought actually
what that number represented, but it's the top of the concrete foundation. Yeah. >> So 10 people below that roughly is the footings and the walls are 8 ft high. So you're not filling all the way up to the first floor of the house. >> So >> you're filling half of that.
So you've put out a number on on your communication. That's incorrect. And you've said it all over the place. >> Top top of concrete on my house is about two feet maybe. >> No. >> From the ground. No, >> not from the B. You're talking about from the basement.
>> These are walkouts. Are is yours a walk out? >> No. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So the you're talking about the front elevation. The back elevation is 10 ft lower than what that top of concrete is over here. >> Okay. Then it's 12 ft of fill. >> No, it's 10 ft of fill.
>> Okay. >> Either way, it's not 22 ft. >> But that's the way it works is when Phil was brought brought in, they have to compact it. There's compaction reports that they have to do for every feet, every foot that they go up. It's not just they're just bringing in all sort
of material, throwing it down, and it's all upset. There's compaction reports that they have to submit that they do. There's state laws that they have to follow for all that fill that gets brought in. And that's assuming that the um you know that some of those areas are
going to be blasted as well. So all of this gets taken into account. >> So the state law allows 10 ft of fill. I can go higher than that >> pulverized rock and that's acceptable. >> Yeah, of course. I built a retaining
wall that's 25 ft wide. I'm high in Northboro. >> So on top of that, Danny explained it when they put that retaining wall in those retaining walls behind the units. Okay, first of all, the units are all
equal to or higher than the street. Am I right, Ian? the units the top of concrete is equal to or higher than the street elevation >> at least a foot higher >> right so typically those lots are going to start pushing water forward and then they'll be obviously some will be gone off the back >> yeah because of the design shows
>> the retaining walls when you build that double layer of level of retaining walls in essence aren't you building a dam of sorts that you're going to compact and against and you're going to build the right materials need a structural engineer to do it he's got to approve
move the whole thing. Every foundation will have a the required method by the building inspector or our structural engineer to determine that it's sound and sits on the correct foundation and the correct material. And I believe the I think those retaining walls in essence
will offset if it drains down. It's got to weep through the retaining wall. It's like a dam >> basically built right behind the units. >> Does the retention wall go down into the ground? It's going to go way down below the foundations. >> Well, great. Because a structural engineer has to design it.
>> So, >> it's going to go below the foundations. So, it will be like a dam. Okay. That's something I was not aware of. I don't know how you can read that on the map. >> It's it's just general con contractor stuff like construction. If you're in construction business, you know that.
That's that's all that's the reason you don't. >> All right. Thank you for your time, >> Rachel. Hello, Rachel Gazera Grant Harvard Road. Um, I apologize if I didn't see it on the website already, but is there an updated site plan indicating where the
snow storage um will be? Um, I know that it was modified from its original place, but I understand that that has something to do with the um, you know, the >> Yeah, just >> it's clouded.
>> It's Yeah, it's it's just this thing. Yeah. So, you see these little areas? These are the snow storage areas. >> Okay. All right. Wonderful. Thank you so much. >> And it says do not um pile snow here. That's very nice. Thank you very much. Um and then uh I just had a follow-up
question just because um some of my neighbors are late to coming to meetings. Um but with regard to the storm water med uh mitigation um I guess in the processing all of uh everything that will happen. Um it seems
like there's current conditions that are a bit sensitive. um if there are storms that are, you know, not predicted, they're really intense, and um the folks that are um taking care of the construction outside of 38 Graten
Harvard Road, um if you know, if it it's a lot, um how will everyone kind of um I guess maintain the water, but also um how will it be dealt with? It just it seems like you guys are on top of it
right now, but it also seems like the current conditions haven't been measured due to you know the parameters of you know the permit and um you spoke about that before but it just seems like are are you guys going to go out and see what's going on or um
>> so current conditions have been me it's it's measured based on how the AutoCAD does it with the wershed map with the catchments areas you're talking about during construction, right? >> Um, yes. I would say, you know, when you're
modifying the current, you know, the current space to, you know, what you'd like it to be. Um, >> yeah. So, during construction, so cuz existing, we know what existing is. >> Post, we know what it's it's it's going to look like. Construction during
construction, that's where you're you're asking as they're moving stuff. What happens when a storm hits? That's what a SWIP report's for. That's what the NIPy's permit is for. That's what our storm water management permit is for. That's what inspections, they do SWIP reports weekly that we go out there and
inspect, make sure that they're all being done and upkept. So if there is a storm, basically the the basin will be the first thing that gets put in. So that that handles that's where the storm water gets sent to. It it handles as a temporary settling. >> So you um Okay, got you. I just saw
there's uh construction equipment outside of the um the 38 GR and Harvard road today. So I just I didn't quite know that um you know the different steps that were being t just to mitigate the water I guess u during construction. >> Yeah, during construction there's an extensive and it gets it gets reviewed
by the EPA federal like there's a whole long process that they have to review that they can't start construction until it gets approved by them. >> Okay. All righty. Thank you very much. the siler there people. >> Um, >> no. Uh, so
>> Brian, >> Brian, >> Brian, uh, >> yes, thanks for >> Can you hear me? All right. >> Yeah. >> Uh, thanks for recognizing me. Brian O'Neal, 47 Highland Avenue. Um, this is going to be new, but it's picking up on
something um, Miss Yates said about the idea of the whole development sort of focusing the water in a way that wasn't true originally with the topology. And then something Michael Goang said. So, um, this is not something the developer
um, needs to address. I'm getting familiar with this idea of only needing to meet the law and so on. Um, but for the town and and you know, we're talking with the board mostly. I just wanted to point out, you know, they would have to model Danny, like you were focusing on
water not leaving the project, but they would have to model specifically the water that was leaving the area. >> Mhm. >> In places where new impervious surfaces are. >> Yeah. >> Like for example to the west.
>> Um I think there's a downhill topology to the west toward towards central in existing conditions. >> Yes. to make statements like um the the level of water in sort of like the Flynn's and the the Yates property is not going to go up. So the hydrocad
modeling doesn't model like with respect to any point outside of the project as it would not do because that's not what's required by law. But Mr. Louise, you need to be careful saying like um Mr. Flynn said it's going to increase the water and I think his statement is
true. When you say um no it's not. it's going to reduce it. You don't actually know that from the modeling done. I think that's something Michael Gang was trying to say >> for the focusing towards >> Hold on. For the Flynn's property, are you talking about? >> Um, well, as of today, I'm learning it
seems especially concerning the Flynn's property actually, not necessarily the Ganganger or the Yates, but you know, I'm with all my towns folk. Well, because because the storm water report that's what that that's what all the calculations are proving is that you can't increase it any more than what's
currently existing. So, and based on their report and based based on the modeling and everything that we've seen, the peerreview agrees and the town agrees that it's going to reduce. So, I'm not speaking out of turn. I'm I'm basing my comments on three engineers
that I have before me. >> Okay? They're the ones who have the stamp, not me. >> Yeah, but I I guess you'd have to admit like there the stamp is with regard to protecting the project and then not having an influx of water.
>> I'm sorry. >> No, the third party peerreview has nothing to that was not has no part in this project. They're they're that they're independent. We we hired them on behalf of the town to peer review their project. >> No, no, no, no. Sorry, you
misunderstand. So, I mean the the all of the HydroCAD modeling is to show that the houses aren't going to slide down the hill because of storm water flooding and and so on and that the town won't be unduly burdened. Like like I guess I would ask like if Mr. Ruben could
comment on this. Like when you say no, none of our water is going to go onto the Yates property, I assume you mean like a visible like surface water going over the crown of Gruntton Harvard Road or something to that effect because that's what you would be liable for. But
but I think um an increase in the groundwater because I I think it's absolutely true. It's it's untrue to say the groundwater level does not change. That was um Adam C's comment. So So Mr. Ruben, if you could comment on that. >> I think I still go through the chair.
>> Yes. >> Well, Mr. Room, would you comment on that, please? >> Uh, I I wasn't too clear on on on what you were referring to. Um, as as >> well Well, just just um clarify your statement of none of the water from the project, your project goes to Mrs.
Yates's property. What What exactly does that mean? >> No. No. No runoff from the developed area on this project goes to the Yates property. And if you want me to point that out, let me point it out on on Can
I point it out right there? >> Yes, you may. >> And I I I don't know if you can see this, but I'll show you something. All of this >> I cannot see it. >> Yeah. Okay. I mean, all of this water is collected and goes there. That's why
that's a catchment. This water goes down here. When it comes here, it goes this way. All this water comes this way. >> All All this water, all all this water goes this way. Doesn't go there. All of this water
>> bypasses that property. This ridge over here stops the water from going there. Yeah, >> that's all I'm saying. >> Okay. Okay. So, I mean, it's been a good discussion today, I will say. But, but there I I just wish the board could recognize there's a common thread between I think actually every town's
person's comments on this that this feeling like we're not being addressed. It's not it can't be addressed because that's not how the modeling is done, right? Like it's not done with respect to outside of the project. Brian, are you an engineer?
>> And I'm not trying to be rude here. I'm not trying to be rude here. You're talking about very technical stuff that even I don't fully understand. And my background is in civil engineering and this is why we have experts. My question is cuz you're speaking very definitively
saying that, you know, this doesn't do that and that what we're doing can't address the concerns. Are you an engineer to be able to be speaking as very definitive as you are?
>> No. Um, Mr. Goang is though is my understanding. And I think this actually gets back. >> Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. >> You know what? This is it. >> Electrical engineer. Electrical engineer is not a civil engineer. >> Nothing against it. >> Do you have additional questions or comments, Brian?
>> No, no. I I was just giving a compliment on the discussion being well and then it went to like an argument from authority at the end. >> It's not about authority. It's okay. All right. >> All right. I think we've >> We're done.
>> Yeah, we've we've heard everyone. Well, >> Rachel, we're done with the storm tonight. We're done. >> Beth has a question >> and she's already been up multiple times. We're moving on to the next agenda item. >> I do apologize and I understand it's
late but it's one of those things. So I apologize for there's no need for an apology but there's there's a certain point where this discussion has to the the questions have been answered and I feel like we're answering the same questions over and over and over >> and I understand the the the the
sensitivity for every a butter on this for these properties. I do. But we we're at the point where we have to rely on what the professional engineer that was hired to do and that we all that's what our responsibility is at this point. We
are relying on the professionals. >> Yeah. We're done >> in our own experience. >> We're moving to the next agenda item. >> We're not that are not being discussed though. I just I wouldn't bring it up if it hadn't already discussed before. So >> I respect my apologies. Thank you.
Project status update. >> Well, um >> continue. >> Oh, we need a continuence, right? >> So, for the next meeting, um since this has been closed out, we we've addressed all of those outstanding issues at this
point, I do not have anything else on the list that needs to be addressed. I think we are at the point where I can start working on the decision. Yep. >> Special conditions. >> Agreed. Have a motion for continuance. And what the next meeting is uh the day >> October 14th. >> October 14th.
>> And I just want to read it just so that everyone knows as of the once the process uh begins to the go we go to the decision and that get if that gets voted and approved there is an appeal process for everyone
that they can take. There's a 20-day appeal period that once it gets submitted with the town clerk, if the if a neighbor, an abuing neighbor wants to do an appeal on this, that's it's their legal right to do that.
>> Did you say just a butters? >> Anybody? >> So, no butters have any a butter has any a butter within 300 feet has the legal right to appeal. If you're outside of the 300 feet, you need 10 residents to sign on with that appeal legally.
I make a motion that we continue the hearing for zero high street and 38 Grten Harbor Road, Lincoln Hills, Map 27, Parcel 28, 304165 7189 site plan review special permit uh and inclusionary housing and stormwater permit to the October 14th plane board
meeting. >> Seconded. >> Any further discussion hearing? None. Ken, >> yes. >> Nathan, >> I Julie, >> yes. >> Chair votes, I we'll continue it to the 14th. >> All right. Now, we can talk about project stats as update.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. I don't think there's anything pressing right now. Um >> you have time for other projects. >> Yeah, I know. >> Um >> there's nothing pressing right now on any other project currently. Good. Um I at the next meeting I'll bring up some other stuff that I think we need to
discuss for some other projects. Uh there's uh Stratton Hill and some other projects, but I don't nothing that needs to be discussed now. Um I think we can just go to meetings. >> I was going to make a recommendation that the board set up the site visit for Stratton Hill. I encourage the board to
make a site visit during so we have see the construction process. >> Yeah. >> And have an idea of you know what's going on the ground. So could if you could work together with the chance. >> Yeah. To set up a date. >> Set up a date. >> Okay. >> Let us know if it work. >> Yeah. I'll individually reach out to everyone and see what availabilities
Thursday morning, sir. >> Yeah, but I also need to run this by the um applicant just so that safe wise out there. >> Okay. >> Well, that's important. Um I make a motion to approve the August 26 25
minutes as amended and submitted to all of you this uh yes yesterday or today. >> Second. >> Any discussion? Hearing none. Nath uh Nathan. Hi, >> Julie. I'm going to stay. >> Oh, Ken. >> Hi. Chai, is that enough? We got three. Okay, great.
>> Uh, great. And, uh, motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> So moved. >> Good night, everybody. Tonight.