two open session meeting of the air planning board. The first item in our agenda is to approve the agenda. Motion to approve the agenda as amended. Do I have a second? Seconded. All right. Uh any discussion?
If I may, to be clear, the only thing added to this agenda was the covenant bond release, I believe, under general business. Yes, I believe so. Great. Thank you. Okay. All in favor of the agenda? I I chair votes I. It is approved. Um,
first thing y CJ. Yes. Come on up. Jeez. How you doing? Good. Good. Good. So, did you have you seen the uh October 25th memo from uh Dan F? Yes. You sent uh Mark sent it to me today. Okay. And what he proposes is releasing uh the body of
the shity but withholding 5,000 in escrow for the grass restoration in the spring. Correct. Yeah. Is that amendable to you? That's fine. Yeah. Okay. Discussion. Move to accept. Uh I'm sorry. Yeah. We'll get a motion. Move to uh say move
to accept the amended move to act on act on the recommendation of uh DPW director Scout uh for the shity reduction for Rally Jane Farm subdivision phase 2. I love that. Could someone repeat that as
a motion? No. Yeah. Right. So moved. So moved. Seconded. Seconded. Any further discussion? All in favor? Chair votes I. It is approved. All right. Thank you very much. I know that was a tough one.
Good night to see you guys. Thank you. And that takes us to um the air pocket forest project. And who is here to talk about that? No one's here to talk about that. No one yet. I
like to move that we put on the table the air pocket forest project discussion until later in the meeting. Do I need a second or could we just do it? Seconded. All in favor? Chair votes I. We're going to push that off to later in the meeting, which means we can start
the discussion of the uh conservation commission's open space recommendation report. Yes. Uh the recommendation is in the packet and that was sent out in advance. Uh I was expecting
You're here for that? Yeah. Okay. I was expecting one or two conservation commission members to actually present. We have Mr. Phillips here. Oh, there he is. Oh, okay. Great. Um, he snuck in. Okay. Did you want to make
before before we invite um Mr. Phillips and start discussion, did you want to set up any framing for this discussion beforehand? Uh, just that uh we're in following the procedure laid out in section 10.13
of the Arizona bylaw. Uh the conservation commission um issues a report to the planning board on its uh conservation recommendations which the planning board takes into consideration in making conservation
findings that go along with the preliminary plan uh decision that will be forthcoming. So, you know, I would rather not summarize, you know, what what's in their own report, but this is part of our process is to, you know, uh receive
a report from the conservation commission um you know, hear from them, get feedback, uh from other people and to take that into consideration for our deliberations later. And I I have a framing
issue with this and that is to say I I I hope we don't lose sight of what the the purpose of the recommendation is is to arrive at an understanding of what the priority areas are. Uh and and we don't want to lose sight of that what's high, medium or low or in this case just
simply high and what's acceptable. And I also want to remind ourselves too that the word priority means relative. uh what's more important than something else. And what we're dealing with is a property where potentially all the land has value. You know, none of it's valueless. None of it is is worthless at
all. It's all valuable. The question again is about priorities. That's it. That I'm off the soap box. And um I guess we could anyone here like to start perhaps to
recognize uh Mr. Phillips commission. Would you feel comfortable with that? Yeah, I I suppose. Yes. All right, Mr. Phil. Yeah. Also, if anybody needs I did bring uh the latest iteration of the preliminary plan set which we can put uh
here if anybody wants to refer to it in the course of our discussion, but uh it's here. Okay. So, I'm not exactly sure what you were looking for. All right. Well, you know what would be a great starting point? Tell us how you arrived at the three area primary areas of concern
because you define them as the north of the rightway, not you the uh the conservation commission, the national grid right away which is under the power lines and then that east slope, that forested slope down to Long Pond south of the uh right ofway which we often think of as the east side. Sure. Sure.
And can you tell us a bit about arriving at that? Yeah, I think um you know a lot of this just goes back to uh continued discussion that we've had with the commission itself um and reviewing everything that we had over the course of multiple years for for many of the
commission members and and for my myself probably the last two years let's say with the the Straten Hill um development. But um as we went out, as we did sitewalks and um became more familiar with the property, um
our view of the property uh was that it could be segmented into, you know, kind of these three more important and much more definable sections and and areas. And uh and again with that um you know we did look at the part where the construction had already
occurred and started um and looked at that essentially as you know being disturbed property. You know it's been disturbed over the last what was it now 12 years that it's been somewhat dormant but it has infrastructure already installed. Um and then you have basically pristine area which we saw as
north of the uh national grid rightway. And then we also looked at the National Guard right away and being unique in and of itself in that, believe it or not, the removal of trees and the low visitation that grows in a
right of way uh for power lines and such um does provide uh excellent habitat for certain types of species. And with that um you know we wanted to look at that again as as sort of separate and what could we do that could um help to
preserve that right of way and that uniqueness that it provides um in this development. And then lastly, you know, going to the the east side of the development um down to Long Pond and again the pristine nature of that um we
wanted to try and keep that as as much as intact as possible. And with that, you know, that was kind of how we arrived at the idea of, you know, is there really a low, medium, high or is it really just these are the these are the true areas that are of most concern
for the commission and that we, you know, don't want to be totally negative to development, but at the same time, this is what's probably the best um the best of the best at this property. That made sense for us to really focus our our efforts on. Um and with that that's how we just basically
came up with this is our this is the high priority and this is pretty much everything else. Um hopefully that kind of answers the question. So I you know reading this and rereading it I found it difficult to understand
exactly what you're actually saying should be high priority and what is less priority. It seems I got the impression that all becomes high priority and that that's what got me a little confused. Maybe I'm misreading it and someone can help me and anyone volunteer to help me
understand. Go ahead. It looked to me what they summarized on page three uh under the summary of the recommendations priority this this reading they wrote uh the last the first paragraph of the recommendations page three the last
sentence. Okay. the land north of the rightway comma underneath the rightway comma and the forested forested slope down to the long down to long pond south of the rightway should be regarded as high priority area. Fair enough. So that
is what they've identified as the highest priority. When uh you identified the area underneath the rightway as high priority, did you take into consideration all the things that National Grid or New England Power can do there by right that can impact that
that land themselves regardless of the Straten Hill being there or the development being there. The fact that it is not only just disturbed but continually disturbed or potentially available for disturbance by New England Power. We did. Okay. Okay.
comments from the board. I I had a question if I may. Do you have any opinion on turtle mitigation or turtle movement mitigation measures? Uh because I know it mentions using u uh
buminous uh curbing instead of Cape Cod BM instead of granite like we typically ask for in a subdivision. Do you H excuse me. Sorry. Go ahead. Oh, no. I was just asking if uh you know how where
that thought came from and and you know how it fits into the whole scheme. Um so over the course of all the um various projects that have come before the commission while I've been on the uh on
the commission um there's been a number of different you know attitudes towards turtles as to um you know take it to the mass dot version of well we don't do that. It's a safety concern. We want straight up and down curves and that's what it's going to be
to, you know, those that have, you know, or I should say are amendable to our concerns and our recommendations and have worked with us to um, you know, provide angled um, granite to allow the turtles to, you know, traverse them
without much issue. um knowing where I live in town and what was done uh in that subdivision um has made me pretty aware of it. Also, um my property actually is part of the a under
under road, you know, turtle pathway that was created with uh with turtle fencing and turtle gates and all that stuff. So, I can go look at it. Oh, it's uh over off of Sandy Pond uh Mountain Laurel. Oh, okay. So yeah, um so yeah, so I've become
aware of it there and and obviously the others on my commission, you know, were aware of it um either previously from again other things that they've um um supported and provided on the on the commission itself and others have become aware of them over the over time. Yeah.
Okay. Thank you. Just briefly for the new arrivals, I want to explain that we've changed we changed the order of the agenda because there were no representatives that talked about the for pocket forest initially. Yep. So we've actually changed the order. So we're discussing
Thank you. the u the conservation commission's recommendations first. And so uh Jess, if you want to join Mr. Phillips, who you're very welcome to, Mr. Chair. Yes, sir. While we're on the um on the topic of curving, um
I fully expect to uh should we get to the position the point in time where we're discussing actual curving along certain portions of the road and especially underneath the I think we're talking about the power lines right now. Um I feel very strongly that we should minimize or not
I will advocate to have no curving. Yeah. To be honest with you. Um, similar to this to Philips, I know just I live in an area where turtles traverse all the time. There's no curving at all. There are ways to handle to manage the
water without having curving that have the least impact, human impact upon the habitat. I think of course I would defer to experts in the field, but building a curve seems to be something that would be uh more detrimental than not in my
eyes. Okay. I would say that of the three areas of concern, the one I'm least concerned about is the forested slope to long pond south of of of of rightway because the revised drawings have removed lots from
that. And so what the remaining issue would be any storm water management and I think we can work with the applicant and the engineers to talk about that and take it pull that out. And so that one is probably the least controversial of the three. So
that's why I'm focusing the conversation on the ride of way and the north of the ride ofway. And I would just respectfully disagree with that. I I hear you. But if there's nothing built on it and there's no storm water there, what else left is there left for us on that? If there's no storm
water clearing on that, I'm fine. Right. There isn't anything more. But if there's extensive clearing of forest, either older growth or new, then that's a problem. Heather. Yeah. So, um, just so you understand, this was written
before we even knew there was revision of plan. So, to keep that language in there and the board to identify that is is is good just because that way the applicant is is understanding that that's how the commission feels. In regards to the actual rightway and how
you're saying it's already disturbed land, it ends up being a corridor for animal habitat to cross. That's the concern and why it's in there. It becomes a natural like wildlife highway. And that's why it's in there because any crossing or road crossing is going to
cause any disturbance or fatalities to that wildlife that's growing in and out of those under that power lines. But now we're going to have two crossings with cars going anywhere from what I remember how many households are there now. So I think they'd be two two trips or four
trips per household whatever a day. So you're looking at 10 houses, 40 trips. It's 40 cars back and forth by a while. Uh so that's why that concern is in there. It's not to disregard that. We know it's concerned. It's because of that corridor and that wildlife process.
No, I just and I can attest the number of trips in there. And then when you also start to consider Amazon and FedEx and all these things, um, being, as I said, where I live, um, happen to have a Ring camera and you'd be surprised how
many ups and downs and back and forth on a little loop culde-sac that I have, uh, how many trips are up and down through that road. And luckily, not a ton of turtle fatalities, but I think it's because people have become accustom and are, you know, looking out for them. Um
but but there are some Does anyone know of any examples of developments where there is a rightaway comparable to this one project? Plenty of them. Yeah. The one we just signed off on as a right away.
The uh all the whole area up on off the West Road, the same rightway, right? Goes through it. You have to go into that right away to get up to all those houses upon Hill. my street. Yeah. I go across the rightway. Washington Street and we go
across that right away all over town from both sides of town. Right across town. Yep. The Grton Shirley Road, the Graten School Road, the almost every road that's going out to South is crossing that right a right away of some sort there. Yeah. I I want to go back to
the to the curb just for a second. Excuse me. Sure. Of course. what Jess said and we we've been talking about this for quite a long time and we always had the intent of looking closely when we get the definitive plans to anything that can be done in the road to narrowing it to completely eliminating
curb which would take an effort to figure out how you handle the storm water off the road instead of on the road. Um and of course the curb adds to the ability to handle storm water because it generate sends it to catch basins where it's cleaned up and continues on its merry way without anything to connect collect the water.
are simply going to run off the street like it does in hundreds of streets in the town of air right now with its salt and sand and everything else. Um, so yeah, that's I I really want to thank you guys first for this report. It's extremely extensive and you know, incredible piece of work. Um, which I
haven't already done that when I was to do that. Okay, I'm sorry. I was out of the room. I've been rehearsing this in my head so long and I wanted to let you do it. I'm going to back up a second. I've been re, you know, thinking about this meeting for so long that in my imagination, I've already done things I
haven't actually physically done. And the first thing I wanted to do, and I failed to do today, and I I I apologize to everyone, was to acknowledge the fact that this this this report re represents months, months of hard work by the conservation
commission. And I and I just first want to acknowledge that, thank them for the work and and and show respect for the fact that is exhaustive and I'm it was represents quite quite an effort. I I I meant to start with that and I apologize.
I just have one we have a we have a wonderful scribe here. So, uh, Jess has done a phenomenal job taking all our minute little edits and questions and as we went back and forth, Heather, right? So, and clarification, just a
clarification, the date that this refers to is June 2n June 22nd, June of 2022, excuse me. So, that's a lot of time that we've been having planning board meetings and other things that have, you know, talked about those plans and drawings and whatnot. So it is evident
that um you know their reference to the June drawings um is what was available to them at the time and what you guys worked on. So it's really clear that it came. Um I did want to also mention that right from the get-go I think there's no one no one in either a board here or in
town hall is not aware of the sensitivity of this project. It's an extremely sensitive project. We're thinking about it. Our planner has been thinking about it since he started years ago. And so we're all taking a lot of steps here to try to be careful and do what we feel is appropriate under the
law, you know, for the town of Air and for, you know, everyone who will use this road eventually. Um and and you know looking at aspects of the the road construction and those kinds of details, we should be able to handle that when we get to the definitive plan and look at
specific areas and how that they're treated under the design to mitigate, you know, whatever problems we we talk about, whether they're turtle problems or storm water problems or uh light problems, whatever the case might be, that we're going to look at every aspect
of it carefully. I think we all intend to do that. So, thanks again for this. We'll keep going. So, I have another question. Um, under north of the rideway, the fourth bullet point is if re if redistribution north
of the rideway is unavoidable, the planning board should require a new professional ecological survey of this area than was provided by the applicant. And my question is, what do you anticipate that ecological survey would tell us that we don't know now?
Which page are you on? On page four. Page four. The fourth bullet under north of the rightway. Um, do you want Well, I was just going to discuss the the analysis, right? Um
I think you okay sorry highlighters you know they get distracting. Yeah. I think you know and Mark might have a different perspective than me. Um uh I think this was
largely in response to the you know the the conservation analysis that was submitted was um really really subpar and um and that was verified by our our third party consultant. Um, after talking with
natural heritage though, I think one of the one of the concerns was the lack of turtle data for the air portion and after talking with Lauren Gloriosa, which you were at, um, I feel
I don't feel as as much in need of new ecological data for that area. So, I'd be interested in what Mark says as well. And and so in light of that, again, similar to the the the report that came back from the meeting that that you
folks were at, uh and the wording that Glorioso provided was we already know what's there. We don't need to know more. Yeah. Um you know, again, while we while we left that in here, I think that is something that is
definitely open for negotiation. Yeah. Yes, I may. Um, I'm struggling with this. I've been I I I almost said I've been struggling with this. I've been thinking about this a lot. Not necess not necessarily struggling with it. And in a conversation today with a a resident, I began to
we've been working on this a lot. This has been taking up a lot of bandwidth for us and some of the information, the data from the report is 15 years old. Mhm. We have to keep in mind that 15 years ago, what we would consider subpar and use this as an example. What we may
consider subpar now met the needs of the require met the requirements 15 years ago. Similarly, our bylaw 15 years ago, I would consider to be subpar. We now have an open space residential design which allows them to reduce the space and get bonus and stuff like that. So,
things have changed over time and having Lauren's input was really helpful to me. Yeah. looking at that and this board's work to come up with, you know, if it disappeared, we'd all be happy, but it's that's not part of it. But the reduction of the footprint and the moving it
around and the thing and the the levers we have in order to work with this project have changed also. So, I think that's I totally get what you're saying about that. Yeah. Yeah. Because we don't want to let's not open that that box again, right? Yes, Jess. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will
just do one caveat on that because yes, things have changed over 15 years including our standards. However, what's also changed over 15 years is the back area of the existing loop road which has created when they cleared it and they
put that big pile of dirt there that has actually created something new in the last 15 years which is some habitat that is now being used by the turtles. They are however in the last plan I saw the revised plan pulling the loop road back
from that correct way down the hill from that area further south. Yes. Um so when you review those plans depending on how much they do encroach into that area that is changed habitat that's where I
would consider whether more evaluation needs to be done depending on what they want to do. Mhm. So that that that speaks to a concern I have anticipating looking ahead because the most recent drawings have pulled back the road considerably from that loop that exists now at the apex that
would leave behind like you said that big pile of sand that we saw together when we walked together and other things and one of my things I'm thinking about is you know whether well certainly we're going to ask for some kind of mitigation of the of the previously disturbed space. it just can't be left with piles
and and and the road itself. Something has to be done with that. But the challenge then is if there is evidence of activity, does does do the efforts at remediation make things worse? You know, that's what I'm worried about. What is and what's
Kong's opinion on that? You know, do it's going to be under the jurisdiction. What's that? I think it might is it even in your jurisdiction anymore? Well, well, that's just it, right? Technically, it kind of isn't because it's not a wetland area. Exactly. You
know, so potential answer is that is when we get to that level of looking at the drawings, we're going to be hiring a third party anyway ourselves for an engineering review. So the engineering review can take a step into that discussion as well as it does we know it's going to do storm water and sewer
and water and everything else, but we can add that piece to that makes a lot of sense. And and I think if if we're just smart about it, um really what it comes down to is again if if we do go the path of allowing development north of the right of way, um it would behoove
all of us to have them lay it out, have them, you know, flag it out. You know, this is where a property would be, this is where a property would be. And let's, you know, just put our own eyes on it. You know, are they taking down a band of something that's fairly unique? Um, you
know, our similar to the the the development over in Shaker where we had that massive erratic that that Bonnie identified, you know, it's like that's a unique feature. Bonnie's Boulder. Yeah. Bonnie's Boulder. I took over look at it the other day. Yeah. You know, it's something like that. It's like, okay, if we end up having to go that way, let's
make sure they're not taking down, you know, half a dozen or or or a dozen massive old growth trees that they could probably just work around, you know, something like that, you know. That's the special firm requirement. Let me just maintain some warning. So,
first a not Mark. I thought he Whose hand was up first? Was it Justin? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, Ken, if you don't mind, I'm going to ask Justin. And I would just add when we did talk to Lauren Gloriosa of Natural Heritage. I think I think we had asked her about
that pile. Yeah. and she had said that well actually from natural heritage perspective they would suggest something some sort of restoration that uh put in new plantings leveled that pile out. Her perspective seemed to be they didn't
actually want to encourage turtles in that area because that would be getting closer to the road. So, but some sort of restoration plan for that area and others along with removal of all the junk that's been deposited up there over
15 years. Yes, obviously. Of course, would be good, right? So, then of course if a road goes there if a road Yeah. Yeah. We cling to our hopes. We're good. Thank you. Yes. Uh Ken and Jeff. Okay. So there is a provision and
under our guidelines I think it's it's the tree tree clearing and removal 9.6 26. Is that the part of the section that requires them to u give us another applica as part of the same application for the subdivision? Coincidentally, there's a requirement for the tree
clearing. Uh it's a simultaneous submission. Basically, we did the same thing with the other projects. Great. um on other projects. One of the things unfortunately that we found out, even though we did this, we hadn't flagged the trees and saved what they could, is that extensive grading on on the land and extensively relocating your high and
low spots sometimes requires you to take out quite a few trees because the grading might not work on the lots themselves. Totally. I mean, totally understood. You know, again, we do have that provision and we intend to, you know, do that. Look at that. Did you guys So, no one on conservation has seen
the latest changes of because it just came in like in a couple of weeks ago or anything like that. Yeah. No, they don't I don't mean I know. I have not. All right. This is fine. Just curious and and and can and to your comment about the grading um and is it's part of the recommendation in there. It's not
spelled out 100% this way, but it is suggested that low impact and green infrastructure be looked at. And if that items are looked at, then the the grading might go down. If we're if we're not creating the giant storm water bases and creating smaller infrastructure and and rain gardens and other ways of doing
low impact development, that grading might not occur and those trees will be saved. Right. So, I encourage the the the planning board when they do draft their preliminary plan to put some sort of condition in there to to look more closely at that low impact development and and green infrastructure because
that might try to help limit some of that grading and and tree clearing that will occur because those trees will be then saved to actually collect the storm water and there won't be needs to make basins, right? I mean, let's go as far as, you know, throwing out the idea of
having the ability to utilize, you know, permeable driveway materials and things like that. You know, be a permeable pavement or if it's, you know, gapped brick just like they used to do in the old days in cottages and such, right? You know, the the herring bone configuration that, you know, allows
grass to grow through it does wonders for helping storm water just as as Heather described. Wonderful documents on that. I went to last week. I wanted to go back to Jess. Your concern about the clearing anything to
the uh east side of the entry road. You just as a matter of course that when we walk up there now, you know, we only we we have seen all the growth come into only the cleared section. A right of way is going to typically be at least 40 ft wide. So that no matter what that is
going to be cleared to some extent on that side in order to just get to the road width that's there. They're not going to be able to build the road on that 15 ft or so that you see there now. Um so inevitably there will be some of that low stuff that's grown in I think on the right hand side no matter what just to develop the road in the street
get the grading and all the you know all the features that you need of a typical sort of road surface but we'll attempt to mitigate as much as we can. I think the way to do that is when we get to the final definitive plan clearly there'll be um a perimeter of the work or you
know the scope of the work will be defined by a line of silk fence hay bales some kind of a non-disturbance line once we get that in place that's the walk you know that we're talking about I think they have to establish what that point is they don't show us that here on on a preliminary plan but
ultimately on the final plan we'll get a a line which is the limit Limit of work is the correct term. Sorry, limit of work. And the limit of work is defined either by the engineer by staking it before they put the silt fence in. Wouldn't that be the appropriate time for conservation or us to take another walk and say, "Okay, here's the limit of
work." Yeah. And then we'll know, you know, that's it. Everything else is pretty much on that eastern side of the existing. Yeah. Too narrow thing. It actually You don't actually have to go in too far to hit that steep drop off, right?
If I walked it a lot of times, as you know, there's also a lot of debris. It's evident. You can see where the cuts and fills are already because, you know, there's got slopes there that are covered with new growth, but loaded with blown small pieces of rock and whatnot.
So, that was all, you know, leveled off at one point. But I just want to be careful that we understand that in the real world there have to be something down there because of just a a 40ft rightway with sidewalks and whatever else goes in will take up some more space than what we see cuz now we're
looking at a very narrow um you know clearing that's left. Yeah. But again to the extent where it's single sidewalks Yeah. assuming there are sidewalks. Yeah. That shows a sidewalk, right? You know that kind of stuff. And um you know if utilities are
placed to the western most side as much as possible that'd be useful. If they're not put in any houses it kind of doesn't make sense to have utilities on the right side of the road since you know why are you going to want to have a a road cut every time somebody has an issue. Um so although that would you know align with
trying to keep off that slope in the eastern side. And and one comment to that too I'm sorry dropping. This would be another instance where the commission would probably look at and hoping encouraging the planning board to look at allowing a waiver to the roadway
as well. Um if it's being able to the public safety as well to have that road narrow slightly to try to lessen the impacts on that side. Take it all one way. So,
we don't anticipate arriving at any at a finding this evening because the applicant doesn't have the one exception, but the the attorney or the engineer are not here. Uh, but I do expect that this is the time when we have questions and we have members of
the concom that this is the time to ask the difficult questions and get some answers, right? And and so I really want to encourage us to really dig deep. Um, so forgive me if I seem like I'm getting picky, but this is the only this is the opportunity we have. Um, when are you
I'm looking at page six of your general recommendations. And the first one is uh you consider dismissing the idea of a playground because there's plenty of, you know, play space for um I have no problem with that. I just wanted to check my fellow colleagues like how do they feel about
that? That's any opinions or thoughts? Yes sir. Um to that specific question when I read the general recommendation considerations I thought that this would be a marvelous thing to have a discussion with in the give and take
with the developer. Yeah, I think so too and that's I think pretty much consistent about all of them, right? That's important to have that discussion and I would caution us saying, "Oh, we will do that." Yeah, that's fair. Road width. Absolutely. We've been thinking about that. But let's get the parties in
the room and have a discussion. See what you know. And then the second and just I agree, but I'm just going to There's some things I just want to see exactly. I want to get a deeper understanding of your the Concom's thinking. Yes, please. Did were you thinking Jess? Excuse me.
Jess and Mark and Mark too. He said that the playground we had in mind was going to be north of the rightway. Is that why you put this comment in here because it's in the same I think that is what we had heard at one point. Eliminate to reduce the number of house dogs north commissioner reconsider previous. It's almost like it's
connected to north of the rightway. That wasn't what I had in mind. Yeah. The go ahead. Well, I was just going to say at the same time I I think there was also a dog park possibly thought about south on the western side. the way. Okay. Okay. So, if I may, I
recall some of the conversations. If you are entering the property, I won't say north, I won't say south, I won't say east, I won't say west. There's the first and the second entrance. The first entrance being, you know, the first one you come to when you come off of uh Snake Hill. There was a discussion at one point of putting some sort of
feature inside at that first entrance on the left hand side as we went up the hill. Right. That is the one that I'm aware of. That's right. And again, it's hard on a piece of paper to talk north,s, east, west. I mean, so but I think that was the features we were talking about as either being a playground or a dog park. And I think
there was also a discussion about some parking and access farther up which would be on the um again if I'm not mistaken on the first entrance away as you head up to the top you get to where it levels off just above the power lines that actually
connects through to other properties that I already have a trails a trail uh uh trail network that goes all the way through to um Pine Metal Pond. So that was another thing you know some parking spaces and things. I think those were the to my mind that's what we were
discussing in the way of amenities that don't exactly um pertain directly to how to the um the project itself and um I personally like the idea of um
again OSRD is to create dense building and the dense building gives us benefits the benefit of weighing the benefit of a playground versus smaller lots and a smaller
footprint gives us more space around it. I think that's a it's a win. Yeah. And and and again, I know from my personal standpoint and and I think some of the commission members agree also. Um, we were really just focused on how can you
maximize the number of house lots that they can put in while also limiting the amount of traffic and travel not only from the residents but other people externally coming in and creating additional travel across those roadways where we are
trying to protect various you know forms of wildlife and such. So you know so identifying parking spots to invite more traffic to come in to a road you know let's call right road the essentially somewhat of a dead end correct Jeff dead end that um you know creates a lot of
traffic but then at the same time again it's going to create traffic in an area where we have um endangered species which we are again trying to protect and and again with that being some of the the focus of what we're trying to do is is again let's limit the amount of disturbance let's limit the amount of
um you know again external traffic and and you know if you're if you're starting from square one and you want to build a model community yes that's what you do but we already have a beach that's probably closer to them than quite a bit of the town. Uh we have
playgrounds that people are you know installing on their own properties. You know they they do it in it's all over my neighborhood. Um but but you know again the idea of of trying to invite the uh you know the external residents or even
non-residents from outside to to go and traverse the travel um you know the the trails sorry not the travel but the trails um again just invites more potential um mortality issues. Okay
Jonathan if I may. Yes please. Um, I think I don't know that again this is to get off on another tangent with this, but I just want to say when we've had this discussion before about a playground that I'm not envisioning like the structure at the beach. Um, I'm
thinking I don't know if Bonnie's boulder was that awesome boulder that we kept so kids could play on it. I remember talking with you Heather, right? So I I don't know if that's the same boulder, but in one development we we kept this boulder as a feature of just that was the playground. like the kids are going to jump and love the heck
out of this giant boulder. And so to me, when Ken I think it was Ken actually who said that these are things these are features in these developments that we talk about there there's a playground in Framingham and I have the pictures but it's a playground but it's just tree
stumps which I don't want to cut them down but like the ones that might already be cut down and it's it's tree like the shavings of it where like you like are like doing like parkour and like jumping on them but but it's not a structure that's built in there. It's
just kind of using the nature space to allow for play um without pavement and and building of anything man-made. Um and and I think that's what we saw with by not disturbing things.
People can just explore on their own. It doesn't have to be designated a playground. It doesn't have to be identified that way. Again, it doesn't people will find it themselves, but it brings joy to a neighborhood and and there I think when we talk about the parking spaces even there's a lot of mobility issues that neighbors sometimes
need that space in order to then enjoy that trail. So, I I I I love this piece and why we need to keep it in the discussion, but I I I don't want to lose the ideas as well. just if we could keep them inclusive in the discussion I would
appreciate still talking about Mr. Ch please so just for a matter of information the bylaws allow us to request additional work by developers beyond the construction of the roads and whatnot.
So beyond that typical road construction is the potential for them to building recreation areas in town. Mhm. So for instance, the Pingry Hill Project donated the land that was built became a dog park, a real dog park years later. They have they never built
the actual playground area or whatever. So when I brought that topic up for discussion, I was I was basically bringing up the option that we have the ability to look for other things when we talk to the developer beyond just building a road. So that opened the conversation. and it looks like it was a
good idea to open it now because now we have a lot of discussion about it which was I think part of the process. So there's no endorsement one way or the other in particular but I never talked about it being north of the power lines. I can tell you that much and I never do talked about a dog park. So I don't know
where the dog park came up. So but I was always thinking towards the front to the left somewhere along the line. And I think I think one of our thoughts was trying to minimize what goes on north of the power lines. If we can't eliminate
it, minimize so then shifting rather rather lessen that north create. Yeah, there there'll be parking for the trail access which I think is important. It is. Um but uh yeah, it's just it's like how do
we define playground? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Same way. How do we define dead end versus culde-sac? Oh, it's big area. A dead end is typically a dead end is typically a long straight road that has a box at the end of it. A culde-sac is typically a long straight
road that has a bulbous end into which you can turn around. I might I might actually argue that that exists on a right road. Now, yeah. And then right road residents, we all because there's no through traffic per se. It's like I'm
just We would Don't make me talk like a traffic engineer, please. I don't like that rule. I don't like that. But there is, you know. So, yeah. I'm sorry. I've been distracted. I believe there's either a bird or a bat fly around the hallway. I saw that. Oh, I was wondering what all the looks were for. I was like,
did my conservation handy? Maybe we should just close the door. Jess, don't go get it. We would like you. If that's the case, I over there. With all your permission, I'll close this door, too. Well, you can't close
the doors, unfortunately. Okay. Um, but I can go get Why can't I get a hold of Does anyone go to the bathroom? How many can we fit in the ladies room? I'll shut the door there. Why can't we shut the doors? I don't know. Must be something to do with the
lady, I guess. Yeah, but Oh, you know what? They're doing work on the roof. There may be a small opening. Who we calling? Carly? like what what are we doing here? Uh he's calling she's shows the construction facilities report going
on. So while this is so let's continue any further comments from board members. I want to go under the table. Don't worry. We get that all the time. They're all right. All right. It's no big deal. It's a very expensive rabies shot. Oh.
So there he is. Come on. Can I shut one door? I have to go back to the It's this way. We open the door over here. Of course. Humans can't control nature. I didn't sign up for this. We don't have extenduating
circumstances. I'm sorry. It was a $50,000 shot for my husband's ra. I do not want Mr. Chair. May I move that we have extenduating circumstances and closing the doors does not imperil the publicness of this meeting? Can we do that? Uh,
maybe that door because I know they're they don't want to have the appearance of closing the doors. Can we vote if the whole room votes in unison? No, no, no. Open meeting stuff. Don't close that one. Yeah, I'm not
doing this. Well, I'm not responsible. Do I say goodbye? Like I'm really Okay, we shut the door. All right, this way. At least the dad will be open. See you later.
Chuck. All right. Who's Chuck? This is not the risk tolerance I have for planning board. Boredom. Boredom. Yes. Bats. No. Bat break over. Well, that's exciting. Well done, Mark. Yes, you threw us in. What the hell is this? It's wide open.
It's open. It has to be. I'm going to sit on this side. It's okay. He's more up and down. Yeah, you'll be all right. It's okay. You'll be fine. Don't worry. It's okay. But I don't want it to be
okay. Like, I don't have to be here. Can't we close the door temporarily? My husband's been bit. I don't I really am not going to I can't go over you. She's calling a safety stop. There's nothing wrong with that. Close the door. I can sue us. I'm not staying here for this. Okay. Do you need anything from me
before I go? No. Sorry. I apologize, but my husband's been bit and I'm not doing this. Thank you. The baby shots too painful. Where did we leave? Did you get bit by a bad? We were talking about a playground and perhaps
Are we done with the playground? I think we're done with the playground. Okay. What else? What other concerns does the board have regarding the the recommend report? And this is our opportunity to to do a deep dive while the representatives are here to talk about this. What else do you have questions
about? May as well go into the hottest one of them all. Yeah. Which is which one? The redistribution of the house left south of the rightway. Um, so we have been talking about this in my opinion for months and months and months with the developer. We've had
members of the audience who attended who we passionately asked the developers representative directly if this could be accomplished. Members of the planning board, including myself, have spent hours trying to figure out a way to do it ourselves and just redesign it, tell them how to do it. There's no conceivable way,
apparently that they're going to change from having to build house lots beyond the followings. it just physically I understand your comment. I'm not sure how you developed the answer of a re that there's a a way to do it with
enough space and construct an economically viable subdivision. I'm not sure how that falls into the the purview of the conservation commission. Um but as far as the developer is telling us it won't work. The second bullet we talked
about. Y page four. page for second or in the second sentence it says opposition is that there is enough space to the south space I presume you mean land non-land to construct an
economically viable subdivision not sure how that gets to the conservation u recommendation and analysis and whatnot because there's only one person that can figure out if that's going to work economically that's the person who's developing the land we don't have the
ability on this board for anyone else. We can make speculation, but we certainly don't know. And I looked at this myself quite a lot and had been for a long time. And it turns out that not only isn't there enough land there, even with a very, it would have to be a
totally different approach, totally different u type of construction with condos or something that would fit other than single family homes just don't seem to have enough room to fit in there on logical lot sizes. Oh, and I think that's some of what we had tried to touch on and and I I know at least in my
mind was the idea that it's not just single family home lots. Doesn't OSRD allow us to recommend and or pursue duplexes, triplexes, whatever you want to call them. There's two duplexes in there. Okay. So, can there not be more and still sell the same number of
properties and still make it economically viable? It's very subjective as to what's economically viable. It really comes down to just how much money do they want to make. So, at the end of the day, Mr. Phillips that that determination of economic viability is entirely the applicant's prerogative.
That's not something any board or a town commission can impose on them. That's one thing we can't do. Yeah. We just can't do it. We And to to if I may, Mr. Chair, to answer your question about do we have the ability to grant waiverss for um multi for multiple units,
things like that under the OSRD? Yes, we do. we have uh retained that um exactly for the reasons you're mentioning. Okay. In a situation where it's economically viable, uh a case in point is um there was a member of the conservation
commission who came up with the idea of duplexes on pond. They're going to name a boulder after her. And the proponent's response was perfect. That that was the response. So the two units in the back at Chicken Mill Pond was going to be four buildings, but we were previous
surface was a problem trying to get to. So that happened there and that was under the perview of the OSRD. We were able to grant a waiver or grant, excuse me, a permit for cuz it's not a waiver, it's a perm for in that situation. So, if if you remember, if if I may, the
OSRD was designed by the planning board in a forward-looking format to in um incentivize developers who may have a traditional project coming to town or already own a traditional
project to um earn bonuses, more units and stuff like that. The trade-off is open space. If you go above a certain percentage of open space, you get bonuses for more
units. If you build solar ready properties, you get bonuses for more things. Lost in the discussion from our from Mr. Collins's first presentation is we want to go under OSRD. We're not asking for bonuses.
Is it the same number of units they were way way back when as of now? So, I appreciate that. Yes, they exist in our code in in in the bylaw, but it is done as a tool to get the uh proponent to make the decision about how they want to
handle the property. It would be great if we could say we only want you to do this, that, there, but that is unfortunately not the purview of the planning board. Thank you, Jeff. And and I'm sorry that that was the intent of the OSRD getting us a couple hundred acres of free space as opposed to 80,000
square foot lots way up on the hill. One more answer mark for you question about what we we're allowed to do and I I spent could talk to Mark by the way I did not talk about this many times I've asked this question to be answered and it's been many times and that is whether
we're allowed to go beyond the two family in an OSD under and we cannot. we're only allowed to build under the up to the two family the underlying zone because the underlying zone doesn't allow it. So I tried to overcome that a number of times and I think we
ultimately went to town council about it right uh because the way I read it the first sentence says we're allowed to do that then follows up by saying if you have the authority to do the special permit or site plan within this board. So the only thing we have authority to recognize with a special permit goes up
to two family which which we've done in this zoning area in this particular zoning and and we've actually looked at going through the entire bylaw and changing multi-unit versus multif family because they do have very specific um contextual meaning
based on bylaws and I've forgotten where that came but we realized there was no there were no way out of the paper bag at that point to get it right across the entire thing. Sure. And I know our meetings are boring, but we do the stuff. Yeah. No. And again, and that's fair. That's that's your perview and
that's your jurisdiction. And now you've clarified and so it can't be done. So I, you know, I appreciate that. But I'm not sure Mark will you guys may not realize that they're going to be these these two two duplexes that they're proposing are going to be so going to be deeed as
affordable units rather than market rate units. M and that's part of the U discussion that we've had that they will offer back. So there'll be there'll be at least four units in there housing that's defined as affordable as we heard last night at the town meeting. Sure. Sure.
Um which will give it a little bit of that, you know, flavor hopefully. Susie, sir, I I see your hand. We we're going to open up discussion to the public on this after the board has done its uh deliberations and then we'll turn and you'll be the first in line. Okay. Thank
you. Nathan, any comments? Jeff or Ken, any further questions? Are we happy with the discussion that we just had? I mean, is it over or not? Do we need to? No. Okay. Well, I just want to see where further we want to go. And I and I also want to ask, you know, Mark
and Jess, if there's anything else you want to underline for us while you're here, if there's that you want to particularly point out to us you think is really salient. um not thinking of anything further under the purview of conservation. Do you mind
staying here while I open it up to the public? Okay. So, just I guess just one thing. So, please So, again, based on the discussion we've just had and everything, it it definitely sounds as if there will end up then being some construction and some house lots north
of the the power line. So I guess with that I you know hope that you take into consideration the alternatives I guess as we presented them. Um you know if we do not need two roads under the right ofway if we can get away with one that
would be highly desirable. Um so um limiting of blasting and such is all extremely valuable to to not do. So to the extent that we can um you know you
should definitely pursue that for the best interests of you know the uh the natural habitat but also the town. Absolutely. And people close by. Absolutely. Absolutely. So thank you. With that said, I'd like to open up to the public with this caveat that uh all
the comments should be restricted to this conversation about the conser conservation commission's recommendations report. Um sir, if you would identify yourself by name and address number 203.
Uh just educational point in your discussions about whether duplexes, triplexes, quadlex would be possible. Uh I I heard that there was some restrictions about going above a duplex. However, autom
has uh either six unit dwelling units or eight dwelling units in a single building. And was that done by waver? Yeah. Excuse me for a second. I believe that's a condominium. 40B. It's 40B. I'm
sorry. Form of ownership, not a form of concern. However, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Okay. So, Mr. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Which one are you going to do? Go ahead. Mr. Mr. Ken's going to ask you a question. When he said Otteridge, I was thinking which one does that fall under?
Yeah, I walk the roads all the time. I don't know if you seen me up there, but I live right up by the hospital, so I walk Autumn Ridge quite a bit. Um, the long of it is Autumn Ridge was approved under the same section we talked about at the town meeting last night. It was a 40B. So, it was done under a process that allowed them to overcome zoning and
do many of the things that you see up there. An example of a fantastic 40B. Um, and it became a condominium ownership. But yeah, so there are affordable units within the project up there that are deeded restriction. Apparently that was enough at the time
to pass the muster of a 40B. So that's why it overcame change in zoning and whatnot. And I'm I'm fully for it. And that's the reason I thought we could pull it off elsewhere, but it turns out we can't because we have to make a change to do it. Otherwise, it has to be
another 40B, right? I I understand 40Bs because I was uh the chair of the Westford zoning board of appeals for 15 plus years. Yeah. And during that time we did two 40Bs. So I wasn't aware that our development was was done as a 40B.
That's very good. The second question that I had, you make reference to uh north of the rightway. Are you aware that in the planning board's website, this is a copy of the page and it's titled starting to build
documents, the topo map here shows north in the wrong direction and half the drawings that are incorporated in this itinerary or listing drawings has it in the wrong direction.
See the north arrows in the wrong direction. Oh, can I can you flip it around when you Oh, it wasn't I think that might have that was given to us that way. It was the first plan. I think those journals been corrected.
Yeah, we need to load. Yeah, we have tickets. You want us being responsible for our website also? Oh, yeah. The the first set was scanned. the first session come through with the locust and
arrows in the wrong direction. And we've been doing this a long time and no one thought to go look at them. Thank you for I suspect and you're also responsible for wildlife. Yes, we are. But Chuck's here so it's okay. Chuck just came in.
Thank you. Yes, Mary. So, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask if we know or if it's known that the owner of the power lines, the land under the power lines uh has given her permission
uh for passage uh underneath those slides across across that property. I if I I I had trouble hearing you. Are you asking if they have sought permission from the power? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Asking a
question. Does anyone know? I know the answer. Yeah. The answer to the question is that they have talked to them, but I'm not I've asked the same question for what since the subdivision last year for a letter. It's called a
it's it's I don't have my notes with me for the the access agreement or whatever the title is. And I've been told only and we've only been told here that they're applied for it and they haven't received it yet. That's all. We don't know that they have it yet as far as I'm
as far as I know. Ascent agreement, excuse me. Assent agreement. Ascent agreement by N by New England Power Group. So Mary, what we know is that we've asked the applicant if they have an ascent agreement. Their response is they're in the process of getting it,
but we don't know if they've actually gotten it from New England Power yet. Right. So, I believe the way we left it was that in the preliminary stage, it would not be necessary for us to approve a preliminary plan which shows basically a perimeter of the work, the work within
the the amount of open space that's going to be given to the town. But at the definitive level, there's no possible way we would sign on the definitive plan because we can't. We wouldn't authorize someone to build in an area that they don't have control of. So I believe in the preliminary phase it
it's acceptable to let the preliminary plan go but not obviously not the definitive plan. Correct. If it turns out that it's not possible that it's not possible. Well, if they don't get an ascent agreement from National Grid, it
gives them something to think about about what they're going to do up there. Right. Yes. I can't predict that it will stop the project, but I'm sure the project will look different. Mhm. And the docu the ascent agreement that I've been talking about in the past is the one the the
subdivision we just signed off on as being complete. the the Moore family received an ascent agreement from National New England Power for passage under the transmission lines for the Pleasant Street Extension which the planning board uh approved and you know
gave back the money tonight for the bonding and whatnot. So, it's obviously a piece of a piece of paperwork that can be attained, but we haven't I haven't seen it. I guess this board hasn't seen it. And if my memory serves correctly, that ascent agreement was in place before the project put a shovel in the
ground. We're talking about where the Riley Jane. I'm not sure. I'm just thinking backwards. I because that was part of the it became it and it it became difficult to approve the project unless they could prove that they would have an ascent agreement, right? Because
he doesn't want to spend the money on his project if he can't put houses somewhere he can't get to, right? Ultimately, what happens? Thank you. I couldn't remember the name earlier today. Don't let me after a few minutes. It happens.
Yes. Yes. Mayor. So just for me to understand so that if if he does not have the u the approval or the the agreement of the the owner of the property uh to proc
it then he just will not be able to we won't be able to approve this project. He won't be able to go forward with this work. I I I think the understanding is you wouldn't be able to prove the project as currently designed. I don't think it would stop the entire project, but
they'd have to rethink the design of it. Yes. I have a feeling New England Power is going to get a few phone calls tomorrow. It's free country. It is. Absolutely. Any further? Yes, please.
Hi Ann Gagen for Mass Department of Fish and Game. I noticed on page eight, I believe, of the Queen's comment letter, um, they discuss the
disposition of the open space and as you are aware, the developer and his attorney have suggested that they would prefer to deed the open space in fee to fish wildlife. Mhm. And I believe
that some of the planning board members had some question about the mechanism of doing that, you know, as opposed to a CR to another organization, etc. So, I have
a couple copies of one letter for you um indicating other towns that we've done this in. Oh, thank you. That's great. So I apologize for just giving it to you now but thank so you guys can read it at
your leisure but um there are a number of other um neighboring towns towns in I'm not quite sure was one of them but
there are um at least one or two uh clusters developments in each one of those towns where fish and wildlife was um granted the open space. And it's my
understanding from talking to various town councils that um that's allowed because fish and wildlife land is considered article 97 land permanently protected. However, the caveat is that
it has to be with the uh agreement of the applicant, right? In other words, the the planning board can't tell an applicant, oh, you got to give this land to Fish and Wildlife. However, if the applicant says, "Oh, we'd we'd like
Fish and Wildlife Department of Fish and Game to hold the open space if it's okay with the town, then then that is allowed." Thank you, Anne. And I just want to clarify a confusion and perhaps it's only in my mind and no one else's.
Were you saying that if if if it's deed to fish and wildlife and a CR is not necessary in this case? Correct. Oh, okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you for clarifying that. Okay, good. Yes, Jess. And I would I would just add to that that while other organizations
could hold this land under a CR um commission, I think we we are in support of of Fish and Wildlife strongly because we hope to acquire other land up there as well. Um
I I can't speak for my colleagues but I I do recognize that there are many advantages to fish and wildlife holding it and also I I think the whole general thrust of the thinking is consistent with our master plan goals not only preserve open space but contiguous open space that is open space related to
other open space and certainly deeding it to fish and wildlife would be uh an important step in that direction that would be very consistent with the master plan and the in what we hope to do. So yes, thank you. Thank you. And I
wanted to also mention um and and to thank the conservation commission and the planning board and air for spending so much time and effort on the review of this particular project. I think in the
end it will be a better project because of your review. So thank you. Thank you an other comments or questions? Yes, Jess. So, I have one that's sort of me as conservation and sort of me as
resident. Oh, boy. Well, which is just again raising the question of because Bob Collins has referred to the existing roadway as grandfathered. I think he said that at the July meeting. Ask the existing roadway that's on the property.
The existing roadway. The roughed in road. The roughin roadway because we I'm talking about writers. Oh yeah. No, the existing because he's got other things in his original plan. Thank you. Yeah. And so this just bears on the question of does a waiver need to be granted by the planning board in terms of road
lengths which I guess goes back to is it a culdeac or a dead end? I actually I believe so and I communicated with attorney Collins on this myself because when we started this process we said are we going to mix sort
of what happened before with what's being proposed now and it's you know confusing we'd have to have a big legal summit to to look into all this status and I think we decided that we're going to look at this plan on its merits as if it was a new application completely and
if we do so the waiver is applicable and I the last I communicated with attorney Collins he indicated that he would be amendable to that so that's something that the board would have to do uh give a sense of how they would vote on the waiver at a preliminary stage and
certainly at the definitive stage they would have to grant the waiver if any development north of the power lines were to occur so is that your understanding but that's I don't Yeah, I I kind of I would this
is an important I would I would prefer to have this conversation when representative the applicant is here. That's my preference. Yes. Yeah. I'm just relating what the phone conversation. Yeah. Exactly. So, so the issue, Jess, is that we're not ignoring it. It's an important one, but it's an
issue we want to do when the applicant is here. you were represent I just had to mention it in case I got you know kidnapped by aliens abducted you know we come and rescue you on the record it's too foggy for aliens you aren't aliens now
who would have thought we spent our evenings doing this okay well um hearing no further comments or questions I'd like to move on to the next item on our agenda but before doing so I believe I need Uh move to continue.
Yes, please move to we never opened it. Proceed procedurally. Do we have to have a vote by the board to accept this report in any fashion or is it just automatically comes in? We typically do vote to accept things to accept the accepted. Yeah. I mean and
then at some point we have to come up with our own. I'd like to move to accept the conservation recommendation of the airplane. Excuse me. I'm sorry. I think Marian has another question or comment. But yes, I just wanted also to thank the board very
much for all the time and effort you put into this project for our Well, we thank you for making all the time and effort to be showing up at these meetings, Mary. So, thank you too. Thank you. Appreciate it. I'm sorry. No, perfectly fine. Uh, I'd like to move that the air
planning board accept the conservation recommendation to the air planning board strand open space residential development of SRD preliminary subdivision plan dated October 14th, 2022 as it's presented. Do I have a second? Second. Uh, any further any
discussion? All in favor? I I board votes I. It's unanimous. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, good. I think I need to I'd like to move to continue the public hearing for I'd actually move to open the continue the public hearing and continue the public
hearing strategy center plan 35 blocks off Wright Road until the next planning board meeting with the applicant is is in attendance. Do I have a second? Second. Any discussion? All in favor? I chair both votes I
unanimous. Thank you. Thank you, Jess and Mark. Thank you so much for coming tonight. Much appreciated. Thank you. I'll be at the next one. I hope Mark will too, unless I'm abducted by aliens. Thank you everybody. And uh I believe we
have people here for the um the pocket floor. Pocket forest people. Americ pocket forest. Where would you like me? Is there a chair for you? Just pull.
Steal a chair. Steal the chair. You know what? We're going to call a recess for five minutes. Well, back to We're gonna call the meeting back to order. And I I want to acknowledge Jim Newman. Mr. Newman from uh Lenan Solutions, Cambridge,
Massachusetts. Excellent. We say we and we're going to be talking about pocket parks. Uh forest forest. So I meant I meant for and my and I'm just gonna shut up and let you do your thing. Go ahead. Feel free. whatever. Um, so the a couple
of couple of sort of setup things. This is an MVP funded project uh with uh AI and Devons. Um, did you say M MVP? So the municipal vulnerability program uh preparedness program whatever uh which
so it's state funded um that's out of uh the executive office environment and energy uh and uh um has participated in a number of projects like not like this but funded
in this same mechanism. It's quite popular around the state. Um and uh and they they fund projects that are really focused on uh increasing resilience in municipalities. Uh it's a
very clever program that offers money to municipalities to do this work. So I imagine that that resilience is very broadly defined. Quite okay. Quite broadly defined. it at some point in the future if you'd like. I was part of the resilience committee here. Happy to.
Yeah. Hope fine. Right. It and so some there are things that are very heavily focused on gray infrastructure. Uh you know, coverts are a big deal. Uh there's things that are very heavily focused on
planning. Uh we do a lot of climate action and adaptation plans for towns. uh but this one is much more an implementation project uh and the idea here is that out of the work that
happened earlier in Devons and in air there was an identification of increasing tree cover and increasing uh the co- benefits of tree uh sort of dense tree and so we defined this as a
pocket forest I'll talk about what a pocket forest is in Second. Beautiful. Um, so but just one thing, a pocket forest is more than just trees, isn't it? It's more than trees. Thank you. Go ahead. Yeah. Okay,
I'll try that. So, um, there's three, uh, there's the two towns. Uh and Allan uh Manan is sort of running it running the project in general for the two towns working with you know Peter Loaded and
and Neil Angus uh in Devons and uh um and then the three consultants right so it's got a lot of folks in this project so the two towns are air and Devons and there's three consultants I don't think you quite call Devons a town
but you know it's it's a thing we call it a municipality two communities. Two communities. Well put. Uh and three consultants. The consultants are ourselves. Uh Linian Solutions. Yeah. No, we call it Lenan, but hey, that's just cuz we're
kind of snotty. Uh I grew up in that neighborhood. Yeah. Any relation to Carl? Yes. Um and uh BSC group. So we do a lot of the sort of public interaction. BSC group uh
does the sort of uh um uh wetlands there's a wetland scientist and a and a landscape biologist on the team from BSC and then there's a group called regenerative design group that does uh
uh sort of uh soil uh carbon analysis and uh as well as a lot of regenerative uh landscape work. So they've developed uh some pretty uh RDG has developed some
very innovative soil carbon analysis techniques. They just published a paper in uh soil security uh and it's getting a lot of attention. Um and uh and so these guys it's it's a pretty interesting team. This is our third
project together uh as a team. So the team is very tight and we are very clear what everybody brings to the situation and uh and it it allows the towns to really get the most out of having these
fancy pants uh experts. Um okay project there there's the project is sort of got two pieces. The first piece is one year in which we uh design and install a pilot pocket forest
project. Um populate a list of potential sites for the second round. Uh establish a monitoring and maintenance process and team uh and then do a bunch of outreach for both education and community participation. Have you already designated the place for the first pilot
project? We have uh the place is down by uh the station on this side uh in that area that's currently fenced off. There's a piece of it that is designated for that square. Yeah. St. Mary's Church. Oh, St. Mary's. No, actually it's not St.
Mary's. St. Mary's is the is part of the next room. Oh, so you talking about the one that's in Dev is the first one. No, the first one is supposed to be at the at the train station. So the what station? station. So, the square area. Yeah.
Oh, and so I'm you're gonna have to hold off on the specific questions because I'm the wrong guy to ask this question of, but um but we can certainly get the information to you. I just wanted to be sure just want to understand where we were in year one. So, there's actual sites been picked, right? So, now you
can design for So, we're design. So, the this the year one has two tracks and here I'll get to that. So then the second before I do that second part of the project is year two and three that is a project that has not been funded yet right in other words as soon as we
get to the point of putting a proposal together in March we will put a proposal together with air and devans to get the second half of the project funded which is building out six other pockets for the first year has
been funded. first year's funded. Nice. Um that's how they wanted it, you know, which I get. They don't like to do more than two years. They want to separate design and and and implementation. It's like, okay. Uh
so, um the project has sort of two tracks, right? So, the there's the green track and the blue track. Um, so we had a we had a kickoff meeting or we will have a public kickoff meeting on November 16th. Uh, we'll make sure everybody gets the information. Um,
looks like it's probably going to be here uh at town hall. Um, and then there's the pilot site design process which happens sort of November, December. So that's this is where we're actually going to uh have a couple of
meetings. Uh, one of those meetings is going to be foraging for soil inoculants. Interesting. Oh, you know that I'm interested in my college. I do know that. Yes. You're a wise man, aren't you? Yes. Uh, this is Casey Lee. So,
this guy, you've probably worked with Casey Lee. Casey Lee Bastion, uh, who's done a bunch of work in in the area, um, in a bunch of different ways. Um, but he's pretty interesting, knowledgeable. This is getting a little spooky because this afternoon I was just on the phone
interviewing a micologist at UNH who's an expert in soil science micology and soil remediation and soil conditioning. So okay so perfect. So this is this is ideal right um and then we'll have a a sort of a design process sort of
community- based design process. Now, a lot of the design for that site is going to be determined by what's on the site and the soil conditions and you know what whatever remediation has to happen and things like that. We we get that and that's not necessarily a community design process to get there, right?
However, there is a community design process aimed at how do we want this to be, right? It's like what what do you want it to feel like? uh how much how much can people get into it, right? In other words, do you want to
have a thick undergrowth or do you want to have a lower undergrowth that allows her paths that things like that? So, there's sort of a how does a thing feel? Um which is more of the community design process. So, there's options from like like a thick mature forest looking
thing, but you can't walk into admire from the outside. And then there's a spectrum of possibilities that allow for some entrance and enjoyment from the inside of the site. Exactly. And so we're trying to sort of that that's community sourced essentially. What what
do you want here? Uh and um and then we do a a pilot site installation, right? So that will be very much a community activity. We're recruiting people now to participate in that. uh but it won't happen till April
or May, you know, and then there's a sort of continuation of that which is monitoring it and maintaining it. And so we're working with some school uh some teachers in both the
middle school and the high schools and and the Parker School and Devons uh to set up classes to do some of that um which they're super excited about and we we're super excited about. So the overall the community interaction part
of this project is pretty heavy. Good. Um which is great from our perspective. Um and then the second track is looking ahead to the next project, identifying six or seven sites, doing the analysis
on them, identifying through input with the community members in different uh neighborhoods. We're especially interested in neighbors neighborhoods that are heavily affected by environmental pollution of one sort or another and uh um economically
disadvantaged doesn't be everything. Devons is, you know, like there isn't a whole lot of that in Devon. There's a little depends on whether you count the prison but the PAS contamination is a very
serious is a very serious topic. Very serious concern. Our lack of a lack of Yeah, the water the water thing is huge. Water's not that important to human life. Then we have um and then we have the lack of affordable housing. Yes. As Deon as the Devon area builds out builds
out and we losing our small and affordable are here right now among other things. And then there are 21 sites here in town that are an issue from both uh dry cleaning and also our munitions set up. Yeah. Absolutely. And
so there's some remediation that's possible with the pocket forest setup. that's not going to be we can't do heavy remediation. But um and then there's also air quality uh potential air quality because the forests are thick enough.
If you could turn if you could plant the road out it cuts down on our tractor trailer. Yeah. Now we're talking. Yeah. Uh okay. So I'm going to ask you about criteria later. I'm sorry. Uh I got I got criteria. We did some work uh a while ago in
Somerville and Dorchester and Chinatown on near highway pollution from 93, which is one of the heaviest traveled roads in the country. Uh and um and one of the things we know is that trees don't cut
pollution from roadways until you get to a a reasonable density, then they can. Mhm. And so part of our goal is to hit some of that density. Plant them in the road so the trucks can't get can't go. Yeah. So if I if I may, remember when I made the first faux pod and I said
pocket park. Um I think it's going to be really important communications to help people understand the difference between a forest and a park. And that because if we think of a park is just okay, there's some trees and some grass, right? And what you're suggesting here, what you're what's going to happen here is something very different. Quite different. I think
it's really important that people understand what that difference is and hopefully get excited about it. I I appreciate that. Um, one of the things that's happening, let's see, we'll get to that. Um, one of the things that's happening uh next week is um Allan
arranged a um site visit uh to what's called a Miwoki forest in uh Cambridge. Um Miwoki forest is a version of this. Uh it's very dense. Uh it has very
strong understory and um grows to be a very dense but very small forest and it's supposed you know it has a bunch of interesting qualities. It's people have gotten very excited about it all these funny places. Do you have know the address of that? It's at Danahe Park actually. Um it's in sort of in the
middle of Danahe Park sort of at the bottom of the I wasn't kidding. I'm from Belmont. Yeah. Perfect. And my sister You can totally go there. They're doing another one. I'm not sure where it is. My family was in the hill area and I sold real estate in that day. Go I live around the corner so I walk the dog by
kind of wonder if I rec Yeah. know in Dan Park. I mean you remember when Dan He was a dog. I don't I took stuff there. I'm old enough. I didn't live there then but I worked for a company that did but that's okay. Um y uh I was a contractor then. Yeah. Uh biggest
trucking company in Cambridge and then in Fresh Point. They're gone now I think. But anyway, they're gone. They're totally They're gone. Yeah. Uh yeah, you're thinking of Mardi. Yeah. Yeah. They're not in that spot, but I'm not sure where they are. Uh I haven't talked to CJ in a couple years. Yeah. So So the
idea is that there's some benefits, right? That you're increasing biodiversity, you're increasing connected landscapes, right? So we're putting that's one of the criteria. Can we put them in places that help to connect landscapes? Um, one of the criteria is can it have can we put it in
between an air quality problem source and a community? Uh, can we create a culture of caring for the um for the natural environment within a within communities because they're small, they can be in communities. Uh, and then you
know it it also provides some cooling although air is not terrible in terms of heat island effect. Although the heat island maps are worse than you might think in uh in a real forest part when things die you you leave it there it's left there and and would that be the
same process here? You would treat it like a real forest or would you call something clean it right? Um what do you think? Well, that's a great question and I our general take is that um that sort of part of the recommendations that we
come in with which is doesn't mean that that's what happens but you know that's what we come in with uh is that um you do a certain amount of cleaning that you don't take everything out but you do a certain amount of cleaning so that you don't get you know pest
pests living in the communities and things like that so you don't have huge huge piles of wood. You want some what's called snags. You want some uh some dead wood. You know, those are things you want to have. You just don't want the whole tank full of it. Gotcha. Because I was I was just thinking that because you
like a snag could be a home to to birds. Absolutely. And we want that, right? You want that that biodiversity in the in the space. Um so, uh and it also really depends on the location and where they go. So that's the idea is it's small
curated managed patch of forest in a sort of urban or suburban space. Um so trees high forage and then soil inoculation uh and wild annuals and bianials. Um
those are sort of the that's what goes into it. The exact things will be determined as the design process rolls out. Although I can tell you we're starting to order some hard to get stuff that we know is going to want to be in there. Um, so we're sort of starting on
a couple of things that we know we're going to want. Will you balance uh quick growth and slow growth species? Yes. Okay. And this is you're going to love talking with uh with Casey Lee. Uh it's it's a pretty interesting thought
process of like, okay, how do how do you do what he refers to as rutals in uh a setting which is disturbed, right? I mean, you're probably tearing up some asphalt. And how do you get stuff in there that'll happen and yet make room
for uh the longer cycled plants that take, you know, you know, like red maples or uh red oaks, I mean, or or the some um some hickories, things like that that that take more time. Yes. To really
get get sort of settled. Um so that's kind of the thought. um the actual pocket forest process. So we do whatever site clearing needs to be done which in some cases is going to be clearing pavement in other cases is going to be you know just clearing
weeds. uh we do the land work and site access right so there's there may be some rearrangement of landform uh then we do soil building through inoculation and then the water and ground cover is a m a process of
creating duff in those areas so that there's the the um water retention but also the soil building process that happens in a sort of natural setting. So you may have some temporary species just to do the soil building or some clover or some other nitro. Absolutely. Etc.
etc. etc. Yeah. And then we do a planting and you know it's a big planting day. Uh get a bunch of kids involved and a bunch of adults who are excited about it. Um and probably a couple days um and then we set up
monitoring and maintenance over time. Uh and that's the monitoring and maintenance for the first part of for this year's project is really a setup to train people up for doing it in the next one where there's more. Um so I think that's about it. Oh, opportunities to
participate. Um, so, uh, the big thing and one of the things that it would be great if you who see the town sort of as a whole could think a little bit about is sites that would be good for this and and anticipating that question have a an
a request for you and your group. Could you give us a list of criteria like what would make a good site and then that would be something we could have an intelligent informed conversation about potential sites. Yep. Um, and we've we've just generated a a set of criteria. It's a little technical right
now. We're trying to sort of clear it out a little bit so it's not quite you'll appreciate the technical one, but so it's not quite so like intense, but um uh but like some of the criteria are, you know, does it serve an underserved neighborhood? Is it is it within an
underserved neighborhood? Clear criteria. uh is some of the another criteria might is that uh does is the site one that is relatively unencumbered in in some way.
So we got a suggestion when we we we were at the the arts and crafts the arts and new festival right which was great. It was fantastic and we met we got 30 people signed up uh and a bunch of folks
Mr. Yes. Uh uh to uh participate in the project. Um and uh um and so we've gotten some suggestions of sites back and you know one of them is abandoned uh gas station.
Lovely thought. Yeah. That is never going to work. Yeah. There's no way we could do that. Um so you know those kind of you know this sort of feasibility criteria um and um ownership is part of
that. Yeah. You know we were talking was talking about uh the um this parking lot at St. Mary's Church where they're interested in. So that would be one of the sites for the that we're identifying for the next phase. um you know there
there's some screwing around with their ownership of that and how it works and what permitting is required and we understand that we're prepared. Um yeah, you're probably thinking about we've been trying to do something always. It's not mockery. It's like he I suspect
anticipating the complexity of certain Yeah. Yeah. It's and it's nothing simple and we get that uh done enough of this to to know what it takes. Um uh so we're interested in in sites. We'd love your help to think about sites.
This is like I say, it's a little bit different ask, right? You're not weighing in on the merits of an of a thought. You're providing information into a process. Um uh we will go through a site selection
process with um the consultant team and the towns and then uh community members will have a second community member meeting where we really work through that. Yeah. Do you do you envision that after you know as part of the the the monitoring maintenance is somebody or
some organization something in town going to be designated as the as as the as being responsible for this so that it doesn't just become dissipated a thing? Yeah. You know what? You know what I mean? I totally know what you mean. And and yes, the the plan currently is that actually the Parker School takes that
on. Okay. Um they're very excited about it. Uh we, you know, that's that's they want to do it. We're into it. We haven't quite got it nailed down yet. Got it. Uh um but yes, for just that reason, right,
that there's somebody who's on it. It's like somebody is the tragedy. Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. Go ahead. No, no, I was going to I'll ask you after the meeting. Okay. Uh and then we have this kickoff meeting on the 16th, 6 p.m. Like I say, I believe it's going to be here. Uh
that's a sort of public meeting. We're trying to invite people who we think would be interested, have something to say, uh have a stake in it in some way. Uh you know, community members. You may end up with a quorum. I will not be there. But you may end up with a house
chair. You may end up with a corner planning. You should consider posting it, right? Probably because if that's the case, we should post it. I I can tell you right now, affordable housing trust is that nice, so I won't be here. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But you may have enough interest to be a private. Yeah. Okay. That's that's a good point. Three more.
Three or more. Yes. Yep. That's a very good point. You don't want We also may just negot depending on what the interest is. We may turn out we'll designate two people or something like that too. So I don't think it's in this room but it's even if we're seen in public together. No no I I fully understand
that I don't think the location's been 100%. No it's we've been through this enough times. I totally get it. It's supposed to be here tonight from what I understand. Um and um so the other part of that is that we are gathering
people to participate in both the site selection process which is that second track um to um participate in the planning of the pilot and then the harvesting planting process right the sort of gathering process and then also
in educational activities and we're working with a couple of schools on can we get into some of the science classes Can we Yes. get kids to the planting thing and and and that's been actually going really well. It's it's fantastic.
Um so luckily we have enough time so that it's not a total sprint. Uh but it's it moves fast. So I think that's it. No. Great. Question. You had a question. as you look at species you're going to
be planting in the ground as you're going to populate and do the fungal uh do the soil inoculation, how you handle the Asian jumping worms? That is a great question and I don't know the answer. I'm just curious. It's in it's part of the thinking. Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure it is. And um not just Have you seen um
have we seen jumping worms in in this area? I can't find an area in Massachusetts where I can't find them. You can't find them? Yeah. Well, I'm Greenfield Deerfield here. Yeah. spent a lot of time traveling around on a bicycle and my wife my wife's a
phenomenal gardener and we see him everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, you know, talking about putting stuff in, right? I mean, that's it's okay. I mean, it's the the piece I look at is if the Asian jumping worm is now
here, how are we going to or what are we doing aside from putting CC meal or something else down to try and defeat them? And my wife literally pulls them out of the ground, hands them to the chickens sometimes and drowns the rest of them. But, um, the long-term
detrimental impact upon our native species from them is an unknown. Mhm. Uh, by the way, these are just a they're an invasive worm and they change the nutrient um composition of the soil, right? Through their cast. And there are
some species that help to sort of there's things you can do, but no one's figured it out yet, but and and I'm not throwing I don't want to I'm not a great you know, we got this issue. We have these kind of long-term issues out there and I think and I honestly I think about
this a lot, believe it or not, guys. Oh, hey. Um, that says a lot about you. That says a lot about me. Yeah. Um, so I'm just interested in having a conversation with you outside of the room about um, uh, the whole nursery.
The whole nursery and stuff like that. Whole nursing side of it cuz I come from I remember Waverly. Yeah. Associates. Mhm. Yeah. I used to be I used to work for them with Paul. Nice. Yeah. Long time ago. Yeah. Yeah, I mean this is then Valley and other places. So Valley
you're going to have a lot you're going to have a lot of overlap. I've worked with Valley Crest a couple of times. I haven't worked with Wley, but I know I got kind of a what might be a really stupid question, but I I'm just curious. You could never really add a water feature to a site right in the front
because it would just be too complicated in a small setting to do anything like that. It's an interesting question. I I we we're not really thinking that. I'm just I don't think we could from a conservation standpoint. I would hate to waste the water on a water feature. Yeah. No, it would be No, I know. I was
just thinking about you know how forests function and what the different elements and there's there's many drought resistant plants and I can show you extension has many many lists of lawn that to the point where when we looking at planting these I would hope that the
the consultant would look at drought resistant watering route because again we came up with water restriction this year and that's just something that's going to become more and more common. Yeah. So it would look more like a an upland forest then I would suspect right depending on
it might depends on depend because if we're planting these in items that are like St. Mary's Church we're saying that has a lot of food storm water run off you're going to want to plant more warm plants that want to soak up that water erosion don't mind having wet feet.
Yeah. And then other plant depends on where you're planting them or what you're going to plant there's an area that has a slope that's going to have storm water runoff. You're going to want to plant something that's going to take that water up and hold on to it in places that are like the depot square. It's already paved and you're not going
to want to plant something that wants a lot of water. You might as well plant something that's more drought in those locations. That's what I was saying sort of meaning about like a location specific design that you know each location specific design. Okay. I like that. Yes. Yes sir. in I think right in
right in line with location specific design. Um some of us live near the train tracks in this town. Some of us a little bit farther away from the train tracks in this town. The train tracks bring us pollution on lots of levels. Noise pollution is probably to me one of
the big gotchas of air. The the air particular pollution. You never do you there? I get vibration pollution is what I get. Yeah. But but but but seriously we look we look at we look at you know pollution and stuff like that. You've got particular pollution. You've got other things. But
one of the things we have in this town unfortunately is um and what's surprising is the train hasn't gone by the whole meeting. Don't know if you guys have noticed it. Not even the MBTA has gone through. I must when I first walked in. Sorry. Something went by
right when I first we've been we've with uh the change in the um supply chain. We're now getting three and four mile long trains through here. Yeah. That takes 25 minutes at 2:00 in
the morning. And if you live across the pond from a uh deciduous tree that's lost its leaves. Yep. That's right. It's almost like it vibrates you, Nathan. And Nathan lives in the St. Mary's neighborhood, so he's very very very
aware. So, I'm curious as you as you start looking at this, you know, um making sure that the multiple stories have the visual shield, but also possibly some shield. Again, that's a density question. I understand. Yeah, I totally understand. Yeah. All right.
Okay. Thank you. Nathan has Nathan, I got two questions about site selection. I might have asked you this when I saw you I went there too. Is there a preference or does it matter if it's public or privately owned land? Um it's probably better if it's publicly
owned but private land is fine as long as it's we can we have an amenable owner. Okay. And the other thing was based on is there a grade change on yeah on a so there is a slope issue that we um we will define what the ideal slope
is. um or what how far how far you know how have how too strong it's too much of a grave. Yeah. So you wouldn't excavate down and lower the grave in some let's say you had a grave that was sloped like this but the land was okay and the
location was okay. Would you just flatten excavate out maybe build a retaining wall? That's a great question. I it's not really how we're thinking about it but we might it might make sense. Just trying to if there's you know something comes up it's kind of a neutral issue. Well, I would say I would
go ahead and and suggest sites that you think are questionable and then we'll have a chance to actually and then we can wait take a look at them. Right. And you wouldn't Oh, and we will do a site tour um in air. We'll do it on the 10th of December where we take all the sites
that everybody has suggested that are not obviously not going to be not feasible and we'll go look at them. But you wouldn't there's no financial gain to the you wouldn't be paying for sites. You look at the size of freight. Correct. Okay. But we probably would pay
for the planting, right? I mean, that's So, that's the there's a funny thing about private land where we're probably pay playing for for the work, but we're not going to buy the site. Okay. Excellent, John. I'm just thinking about
some of the small postage stamp pieces of land around town. Me, too. that are um inaccessible. Um I'll tell you the one I like. I got Yeah, the there's a piece of
land that I believe was owned by either the B&M or excuse me, the railroad or the town that's almost opposite the library. That's what I was thinking. But it's if you go down that side street, which was the I guess the old main street, you know, what do you call it? That's exactly what I was thinking. And
there's a set of steps that come up. Y, but the area is kind of flat and it's right there between the bridge and the houses on the other side of the street. I've always thought the town should have a little park or something. Something there. I was thinking that, too. Walk right around. Just go down there. That's the kind of thing that's like, this is
what you will know well enough to say, oh, here's six places that would be really great if we could do something here. And you know, we three of them will work. Excuse me. take the CPC funds for purchasing property in town. Take the small poster stamps that are currently Yeah, we could do that. You
know, I'm thinking about off of my road and I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say the Don't say it out loud, but um it is a right of way into a piece of land in the back and the owner may be willing to forego a small piece of land
that would then just actually bring the forest out to the road, right? they'd be built be planting underneath 80 foot wide pines, but you know, I'm sure you can figure that out. But anyway, so things like that that I think they're I think that's that's exactly the kind of thing the industrial
corner the preferences down closer to downtown I presume probably. Yeah. Okay. If if you sort of look at where folks are. I used to work at the end of Willow Road a long time ago. And the amount of trucks calling cars and the trucks calling tires, the recycling planter
rail and the Yep. the train that the amount of truck traffic there and at the rotary is is those are the places that I would think would be the best piece of these. And when you get towards Will Road, you have the 40B project up the hill. So you get your affordable housing part.
Let's let's so let's work out practical steps then we're going to get from you the criteria. Yep. And then what you'd like to see from us is a set of recommendations. Yep. So I think we should discuss perhaps the next meeting or something. Maybe we need a subcommittee to come up with some ideas that we were able to present to Len and
and and move us forward. That would be fantastic. I think that that you know I'm just thinking process that makes sense. So get that criteria to us and then at our end we're going to figure out how to make this work so we can get a set of recommendations or suggestions to you. Okay. Love it. Thank you. So
Nathan, who is the deciding authority on this? Uh is it does this go to the town? Yeah. For a vote become I don't know that it has to be voted on, but it does it is so who who is who says yes, we're putting a pocket forest here.
Good question. I am not sure. Okay, we have to figure that out. And then who sponsors that? Mark, did you hear that? Great question. Nathan is saying who's going to be the ultimate sighting authority in air for any of these locations that we say suggest and that Lenan thinks is wise. Well, who file?
Who says okay okay you can do this the select board select board that's a good question we'll have to discuss that can we that's a good question to find out how do you navigate the road to do is easy maybe even alert Robert to
that as an issue that we we have to resolve well that that'd be something to bring up also to share it with you 16th on the side of the 16th that is a great question so We have some other items on the agenda, Mr. M. That's it for us. Thank
you so much for this wonderful presem. I will take off so that I can make it home for the game. Have fun with Neil. Uh thank you. It's always a pleasure working with Neil. Uh Neil and Peter, guys I've known for a long time. Yep. And and now
Beth Beth is I am have not had a chance to talk to Beth about her move and that is the coolest move in the world and um I work with Neil on some other stuff around cycling and around uh bringing together um stitching together cycling
infrastructure over here and he's been extraordinarily helpful and then I found out that Beth went over to Devon. Yeah, Neil's pretty sharp guy. I've worked with Neil a few years. All right. Okay. for an Arlington res. Okay. Yeah. Yes. I will not be at the 16th and
running another meeting. That's fine. Oh, I really want to be there, but I can't. Okay. Uh the update I have is also first of all to remind the board that the next meeting is the day after election day which is the Tuesday that we normally would have met. So the
meeting is Wednesday the 9th. Wednesday November not Tuesday the 8th at 6:15 correct here. Okay. Yep. And we have it reserved. Uh secondly, I uh while I was making copies, I have a copy of the full
application package from G22 uh LLC, Volcania Engineering for 22 Pittsburgh. They're doing phase 2, which is a site plan modification to what the board already approved there. It's different
enough that it, you know, it's more than just a minor little tweak. Okay. But it's it's it's all stuff that will improve the appearance. There's an extensive landscaping plan there. Did he give you the original by accident? Uh his isn't that one's in color? Uh no, I
I copied them in color because it don't make sense without the color. You need the color code to see the plants. It also helps with the uh the other things. Also, there's a luminary plan, too, cuz they're requesting a uh waiver of the uh
light fixture. in order to use fewer fixtures. You'll see he describes it. Okay. He wants to go higher to use fewer fixtures. Well, actually the same height that was there before, but which is now not.
Okay. Just read his package. It's it's all explained. Yeah, we we'll do. Okay. Yep. Uh oh. Also, um, yeah, as far as, uh, minutes for signature, Heather got me the, uh, final versions that were
approved for the July meetings and the August 23rd meeting, which I need to print. And then once I do, you can sign. Once you print all those out, just let me know and I'll come right down to your office and I'll sign them and we'll be done with that. Correct. It's great. Um um the for one meeting that we have yet to approve the minutes of I believe is
August 9th and those are before you with the edits that you made. John, have you has everyone had a chance to review those? Those were the ones that remember the the the uh statement cut out. So there was 10 minutes of I don't know what happened. All right. Can we
approve it without those 10 minutes? We may have to. [Music] I think we're going to have to move to approve. Do I have a uh Do I have a second to approve the August 9th minutes? Move to approve the August. I'll second that. Mr. Chair, wait. I
thought you did the first. I'll move. You said you. Okay. Move to approve the meeting as the chair. Second. Yeah. I second. Uh any discussion? None being offered. Uh all in favor? I I
chair votes I. It is approved. Thank you. Old business, new business. I just have one announcement. You guys already know this, but just as a reminder next week, Wednesday, November 2nd, doing a little presentation at the
air library. And so, anyone watching, all invited little presentation. It's myology. Yes. Yes. I had to go that direction. Micology. Uh is something about the otherworldly magic of your local mushroom. So, it'll be a very much it will be about Muslims.
We'll talk in general about them, but with a powerful focus on what's available now in our area. Thank you. That's all I have to say. While I'm here, I'm going to make copies of this for people. So, uh just take one. This is what um we just got from
Ann Gagnum. So, make a few more. I would be I I thought it was nice of Miss Gagging to make a pitch for a fishing game. Me too. I do too. Um it's my understanding that fishing game would
maintain the current um sports news activities on the property. Yes. Whereas um if it were to go to Audabon, there's less of a chance to maintain those activities. I think there's none. Yeah. I think I will think of the discussion
myself. I I of course I'm I'm laying it out as one of the discussion points. I'm not saying that I am in either. Got I'm in I am in neither camp at this point. Um I have a little bit of
old business thought new business thought. What's on what's going on? I could have talked about what's the strategy, but it dawned on me when we were when I was making a point that the playground issue was simply something that's in a list of things that we
potentially could ask for. Yes. Um and strangely enough, it was in the old regulations, subdivision regulations, but not in the new regulations. I don't think we can ask for almost anything though. But I'm thinking off hand that maybe we should be thinking about and it
reminded me when this guy came to pocket forest. Maybe we can offset some of the tree clearing by requesting plantings elsewhere in town some other appropriate place. We think we already scaled the picking up the offset. So if a developer has capacity
to provide some amount, you know, then could then pick a spot, you know, plant some trees, maybe we can that's similar to something they're required to do when they do clear a certain amount of work in the ACC. They have to replicate that somewhere. Who
said that? That that's part of what the AC that's part of in a visa. That's part I only know this because I did some work I did in Lancaster. Um Route 70. How many times have you walked ass over too in the last since you got your job? Uh once a week, right? How many trees you
think they're planting elsewhere? That's under CDC. Yeah, I I understand that, but I I know that's a require or it was you found that you you found something I never found, which would be fantastic. I just I I mean I just old minutes from 2018
when I worked over there that I know that it was mentioned that it be cleared over it might amount clearing the soccer field. So but I know there was one at some point that they that that they had to
easy. So that was a part that was part of the thinking just in general maybe when we get to that stage we could think about adding that to some kind of a thought process we look for off-site improvements. What was interesting I was actually thinking about that as Mr. Newman was making his presentation.
Yeah, because there are situations where we might have a section of buffalo on land here in town that will end up in the hands of a road designer and if we could soften the blow um you know it would be nice
and um yeah I'm curious as to the Miaki is a great way of putting of using of turning land from into something nice And one of the conversations we didn't have today and I've never followed up with anybody
about it is how it's to be used in the future because eventually you end up with public safety and other concerns in a fully a fully dense forested area. So, but that doesn't mean you don't do it in
any way, shape or form. Nathan, uh new topic, old business. Um we should we'll do it tonight but I think we should revisit the idea of um what the board's support of form based code particularly
in West Air Village and um continue to uh make sure the the the record is clear that we um are interested uh I'm interested in in seeing um applicants
come uh to to um debate with us. Um and I think that we are favorable I'm favorable to to um revitalizing what and utilizing the infrastructure
that is being put into place there right now. Mhm. Fair enough. And you saw that email exchange with Okay, good. Yes, sir. Did you have something? Ken,
um I wanted to follow up on what Nathan just said and I'm glad we were reminded about that the email. So, um, I would just like to remind Mark, cuz he's the only member of the professional staff here, that when an applicant comes
in, if parking becomes a question, that actually Allan made a great presentation to us and pointed out the sections of the code of the box, not the code, excuse me, our uh the bylaw regulations, zoning bylaws and parking regulations in particular that the board does have the ability with a thought process of
developing a parking um, you know, management plan Yeah, you know, make parking easier for the applicant to comply with. So, yeah, don't just I thought Allan pointed it out very well to us at that meeting that night. Yep, I think so, too. And we
have to, you know, we just need like someone comes in right away. you don't don't get them discouraged because we can look at park and will and we were potentially going to do that but somehow we remember there was discussion that we would have a second article um basically
allowing for less parking anyway but we got it on the fall town meeting so maybe next year I'm not sure I wouldn't be surprised we don't see it in the future I think there was a misread of the sympathies um on someone's behalf and that's where it stands
Um motion to adjurnn. So moved. Good night everybody. Good night. Second.