Hello and welcome to the Tuesday, April 26, 2025 meeting of the air planning board. Did I say it right? April that now you did. I move on the 22. Oh, 26. 22. Sorry. Uh the meeting, this meeting
hearing of the air planning board will be held in person at the location provided on this notice. Members of the public are welcome to attend this inerson meeting. Please note that while an option for remote attendance and/or participation via Zoom is being provided as a courtesy to the public, the meeting hearing will not be suspended or
terminated if technological problems interrupt virtual broadcast unless otherwise required by members of the public with a particular interest in a specific item on this agenda should make plans for inperson versus virtual attendance accordingly. This meeting will be live on Zoom. The public may
access the proceedings by joining Zoom meeting ID number 978-772-8220 or by calling 929205-6099. For additional information about remote participation, please contact Annie Ruiz, town planner at druisair.mma. us or
978-7728220 extension 144 pri prior to the meeting. Do I have a motion to approve the agenda? So moved. Seconded. I'll make a motion to amend the agenda just to add one small item which is a review of the town meeting
warrant articles at the end of the meeting under the administrative uh matters just so the planning board can get a final review of the Excellent. Is that acceptable to the people who made the motion in the second? Yes. Yes. Okay. Uh any further discussion hearing?
None. Ken I. Julie. Yes. Kathleen. Yes. Nathan. I. Jeff. I chair both side. Uh, first item is our continued public hearing for zero high street 38 Harvard road Lincoln Hills. Uh, what I'd like to do is turn it over to Daniel Town Fire
to give us an overview what we'll be discussing this week. Okay. Um, so, uh, on the agenda, just so that everyone knows, I will, um, when the project is going to be on, I'll make sure to add the notes as to what the topics are going to be so that everyone knows
exactly when they're coming in, what the topics we're going to be discussing, so that if they have any questions about those specific topic topics, they'll be able to um, uh, ask those questions um, at this meeting. Um, so the first thing we're going to the first thing I have is yield plan discussion. Since at the last
meeting we did not vote uh we were waiting on the stormwater narrative which was submitted to myself. I did review it. Uh Matt did re Matt got that as well. Um the board has it in their um um packets and was also emailed to
everyone as well. Um so we'll discuss that open space requirement. We'll discuss the open space requirement. that's shown on the newest plan that was just submitted, but we're just going to discuss about the percentages on the 50% um making sure that they meet that
requirement. Um then we can have a um an initial discussion on the density bonuses. This was uh this request was submitted to us. The uh special permit application was submitted. Um it'll be opened on May 27th. So we'll, you know,
run the legal notice and send out the abuters notifications as well. Oh, sorry Dan. I didn't mean to cut you off, but just to further explain, so tonight we won't have an in-depth discussion the density bonuses, but because we required by law to have an open public hearing
just for the special permits. So this is just a very brief just introduction to say yes, we got the materials very brief, but the real discussion can't happen until this the open public hearing for the special permits. Yeah. No deliberation will occur. No deliberation. There will be I mean some
initial conversations that the applicant's going that has questions for you. Um but uh yeah the the the substance will be discussed at the May 27th meeting. Um then the next thing will be the update on um the storm water
RFP that was submitted to um everyone I mean that was given to every um to the board members. Um, it's also, um, uh, I have it I'll be putting up on the board so that we can kind of go through it. Matt is the one who gave me the, um, the the points that he felt would need to
be, um, reviewed. And Matt, of course, would be our town engineer. Yes, the the town engineer. Um, so I put the RF together. This was sent out to Green International since they're already doing the um, traffic. Um, but it'll once I get their proposal back, we can
we'll be able to discuss it. Um but just so that we can kind of go through that so we can discuss what is being reviewed. Good. Um and then the traffic peer review, we can give an update on where they are with that as well. Excellent. Uh so I'd say the first one would be let's talk about the yield
plan. So at the last meeting um we had gone through uh the yield plan determined that uh we were at the point where we felt we could vote. We chose not to vote because the narrative um um
was not submitted. So the sub the narrative was submitted and I hope everyone had a chance to review it. Um it does meet the requirement based on just the bylaw of what it states what it asks for. Um so I feel at this point we
are um the board is is capable of voting for that. Okay. because my understanding was at the last meeting we came to a consensus that 34 was the correct mathematically the correct number to arrive at but there was that suspended
issue that of the necessity of submitting the narrative which is now here. So uh I board members any further questions or discussion before we arrive at a vote on the base count for the through the chair. So Danny the letter um I'm not sure if this was my fault or
not but it refers to the requirement 13. It says the letter is in accordance with requirement 12, but I guess you could say it's in in requirements of in complies with all of them 1 to 13, but yeah, it's it's for requirement number
12 is is what it's actually, right? But yeah, I mean it's a that's a simple clarifier. We just take it to be consistent with the requirements. Yes. Thank you. And just to to clarify anything that
could be a source of confusion, this narrative is a simple one paragraph document just giving a general overview of the intent of the applicant. It is by no means the actual storm water submission which will be about that thick. No. So and it is up on the
website and it is on the 154. This has to do with the Oh, I'm sorry. The yield plan. I'm Yes. So, but a lot of discussion in here refers to the water. So that's why I bring that up. So don't this is not the storm water plan in this yield plan at whatsoever. This is just a
quick just a ma'am. I never do that. Jonathan. Yes. I'm hearing we might be having Zoom troubles. Oh, we are. And I'm also noticing that we're usually fairly popular. Not as popular tonight, but there's no one on Zoom. So could we take one minute? I know we're not going to spend the meeting fixing it, but we
only have We are. We're going to take just one minute. Yeah. Remember, um, the Zoom is is a is not we won't stop because of the Zoom. I appreciate that. I just I just thought there was a quick If there's a quick fix, there's no quick fix. Um, what are they just saying that
they just can't get in? Yes. Jeez. What's going to happen here is if there's an easy way of doing this, we'll do it. If not, we're just going to continue. We'll continue with the meeting. But if we can get it within a few moments, at least try. The other evening, Zoom was out alto together.
Yeah. For four and a half hours. It was the most blissful night of no meetings I've had in a long time. Oh, there we go. There we go. I don't know why that was. Oh, people coming in. Okay, good. Thank you, Julie,
for letting us know. Not sure what that was, but we're on. I just ended it and restarted it and it seems to all flooding in. up. Oh, yeah. There we go. Hey. Okay. Okay. All right. Um I think at this point I'm prepared to
make a motion. Uh I'd like to make a motion that the board the board accept uh the yield plan base count calculation of 34 uh lots of units. Units units. So, we have a you have a motion for we're going to get a chance to discuss it.
Absolutely. Okay. Thank you. I'll second that motion. Now, we have discussion. I just want to go over how we got there with the um design that they submitted. Can we pull that up, please? And so, everyone knows they have to submit a
subdivision plan. That's the basis we start from. I just want to make sure we're all on the same page. If you don't mind, Mr. Chair. Oh, let's do it. I think I won't I do want I do want to get out of here tonight, but I think that might be helpful to get out of here tonight. We just started and we are going to make this we did this uh thoroughly at the previous meeting. So,
this will be a brief recap. I just want to recap it. I mean, my my sets of plans at home have notes all over them. So, let me just change the view on this in a second. If you can pull up one that has the uh um excuse me, not the contours.
Not the contours, but we need the one that has the lot sizes on it. Yep. That'll allow us to say yes, it can be a duplex. No, it's not a duplex. Yes, fair enough. Yep. Let me just Yep. This is it. Oh, that's not what I wanted to do.
It could be that. I don't know why it's not letting me rotate like PAB. Maybe. There we go. Okay, there it is. So, just to recap, if you don't mind, please. I believe there's a total of 26 lots. Mhm.
And if you count around in the circles, you get to 26. Um, the minimum square footage for a duplex lot is 24,000,000 ft. If I I'm going to do this off the top of my head. I know lot four, lot
three, lot two, lot 19. Lot 19. I can't read 18. I believe 18 and 20 and 17. Yep. Am I missing any of 17 18? Number eight. Thank you. Thank you. So that's six
lots. Am I correct, Mr. Disc? Yeah, you've got it printed in front of you. Eight lots. That's eight lots. So those would be eight lots would allow two per lot, which gives us 18 units. That's correct. So we take 26, we subtract eight. That's 18. Mhm. And what's the
numbers add up to? Um, so it's 18 singles and eight duplexes for a total of 34 units. Okay. Okay, good. Are we all on the same page? Yes. Thank you. I sorry, but that's like let's start with everyone agreeing somewhere. I appreciate you taking the time, Mr. Chair. Thank you. You got it.
Any other points for discussion and mind? Hearing none. Ken I. Julie. Yes. Nathan. Hi. Jeff. Hi. chair votes eye. So we have a
base yield count of 34 and then there'll be subsequent discussions. That's what we talk about the at the public hearing for the density bonuses about what other additional units may be applicable. That's correct. I'm probably going to ask this question for and we have building signed off on this being
an acceptable plan. Yes. This plan meets all of our subdivision regs. Yes. I'm just saying that out loud because it's just I want it all in a package, guys. Yeah. So I'm the uh um I reviewed it. Charlie reviewed it as well and we both came to that determination separate stuff like that assuming radi and all
that are fine. So thank you. So I think the next item is the open space requirement. Yes. So, that's I'm glad you know what this means, Danny. See, it's nice to have a laptop that
actually connects to our our driver. Now, my last one did not. I just got to get down to I think it's page. Give it the minute it needs to load. Julie, how many people in the No, that's
not Thank you. mostly that is not the one. Maybe it's on a different Ian. Do you know what page the open space calculation is? No, there's a specific page that was Oh, I found it. I found it. Thank
you. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's it's on this is the updated one right here on page 12. Sheet 12. if you want to go to that on your plans. Um, I don't have that. Oh, you don't have it?
Yeah. So, here is um I know it's difficult to read. This is the open space area equals 263,587 ft and the building developable development area is 242,623. Um the infiltration
area is removed. That's 14,029 square ft. So excuse me. When you say it's removed from the calculation from this from this open space 263 to 587 does not include the 14029. Correct.
Thank you. No, it or or does not does not it doesn't. Maybe I I can explain how put that up. Yeah. Okay. I got to do this if I can see this
on here. But the the way I did this and it actually is is is very complicated. So, um I thought the simplest way to do it was first to give the total square footage. Let me zoom into that. You're talking about the chart at the chart, right? If you pull
pull up that chart so that I can read it, then I can explain it. It make it a lot easier. Okay. If you look at the total square footage there. Yep. Right there. You'll see area, that's the total area of the entire property. Yep. You take the steep
slopes, that's calculated, and all the numbers are actually on the plan how I came up with that number. And the difference is what's not steep slopes. Then you look at 50% in other words divide divide everything by
half then okay then look at the developed lot and see what the areas are then take the difference between the 50% and the developed lot and all the numbers in the developed lot are smaller than the 50%.
And those numbers are all larger than what the infiltration basin is. And I think that makes it fairly clear, okay, that we meet the requirements both in steep slopes as well as that we are compensating for the
infiltration basin area. uh the closest like steep slopes I mean um if you look at there's 110 square ft extra in steep slopes [Music]
um that is uh we we we are 110 square ft higher in steep slopes uh than we need be I mean um and and also non- steep slopes we still
13,919 square ft. So, um, you know, there's there's a there's there's a lot of extra space there. And so, as part of our guidelines, it does require that the
calculations of steep slopes take into account. Um and that you know you it go it gets there's so in the guidelines it gets pretty specific on the on the steep slopes and the open space what can and cannot be counted towards it. Um
so I think initially based on these numbers it shows that it does comply. There is a question still right now um that I I that I still have out to town council right now that I'm waiting
for an answer on. I still have not received back um yet. There is a right of way shown right along here. It's a little longer than that. Yeah. So, there's a right of way that's shown along there. We're still trying to figure out whether or not that can be
counted towards open space technically. So, I'm still trying to figure out who's own who's who has ownership, who does not have ownership, what rights, what what who doesn't have rights. Um, but based off of right now, there is a right of way that went with
this this uh this lot right here. I've done all the research going back through the deed, the registered deeds. It's now in town council to determine what's going on there. That's as of right now that's the the only question I have left
before we make a final determination on open space. Excuse me. Do we are Danny you anticipating that we make private a finding a decision? Not tonight. No, no, no, no, no. This is just a discussion and I just want to say as part of discussion if we find through further
deliberations that there are issues in the developed area and in the open space for instance with things that need to be constructed in the open space in order to fill the storm water or on the opposite developed area we realize oh you know what we need additional space for say snow storage or something
else that would necessitate that we may need to revisit the calculation for the open space itself right yes make that public to be aware that that could that's a possibility. Yeah. So, uh we won't be making any determination on the open space until I think at the end of
the project, right? Because we can't correct. So, their initial this plan right here to me meets meets the requirement. But that is based on my review on the bylaw and what's before me. Right. It may change depending on
how the board and other, you know, all the board members and maybe other comments that may come from other department heads may have. It may fluctuate and it's it could be an everchanging kind of number where the line may change here and there. So
that's why I think we won't be able to make that final determination until the end of the project. But initially right now they I feel I feel like they meet the comp they comply with that. In other words, I'll get to you once. Thank you. In other words,
as the plan stands today conceptually, there is there is the me they have met the requirement for the 50%. I mean obviously with all the caveats we just mentioned, but it gives us enough where we can move forward for in deliberations and other aspects of the plan. That is that yeah beautiful. And and at this
point, just to again put it in an envelope, Mr. Chair, we have a question about whether or not the rightway space can be used as open space and we have a question because we don't yet know what the storm water the end like the end storm water needs are going to be and
what will need to be constructed in this space to meet the storm water needs. So those are two open questions that will impact this discussion at a later date. Good. Um I'm going to first open to the uh board members for discussion then I will turn to the public first this room
and then Zoom. I think Janet didn't want to also speak on Okay. So I will uh I will address Nathan first and then who is it? Janet. Yes the applicant and then and Jessica Gina first board. Yeah board first. So Nathan had raised his hand.
I'm gonna acknowledge Nathan. Go ahead. Sorry Ken. Um did I miss you? Sorry. Go ahead Nathan. Uh could you bring the table up again uh Danny just uh so I understand um to the applicant the in the number there is a
net or we're saying that let's take for example the difference the last column there we're talking just over 200 uh 300 square feet is the difference between the infill basin and
the spaces lot left over. Is that is that a correct understanding? No. The 50% less developed lot is um okay the developed lot is smaller
than the 50%. And the amount that it is smaller is the difference is 14 234 and the infiltration basin is less than any of those numbers that are given there. Yes. Yes. So the infiltration basin is used it could use up to that amount. Correct. Up to that amount. Yeah. So it
could be but the amount that it's using it tells you what it is using. Yeah. And the closest case is the last the third one. Yes. Third one. So so which means we could add like 100 square feet to the infiltration basin. 300.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What is it? Uh 200. Okay. Yeah. So it's not a lot. It's not a lot. 300 ft is like half the room. No, it's close. But let me let me say this. If if you show the whole plan there, in
fact, if you show the whole plan, um the the Okay, that plan's fine. But there are there's additional places where we could cut off property that's not being used in developed lot up here. So, that's good to know because I I just
wanted to bring up three points to make. One is we've had some experience previously where we we make we approve something and either field changes or other reasons there's there's postapproval changes right and
um and I just want to state that there's in this plan there's little margin which would require careful construction and I just employ right the applicant to be careful instruction construction. Yeah. If this
goes forward. Yeah, I I I agree with what you're saying. And also looking at that slope plan, I mean, I did that right up front. It's done to the closest square foot. So everything is done very accurately. Even though the requirement
it's it's not that clear in the bylaws whether one needs to be that accurate. Yeah. But it's done to the square foot. So yeah, I I'm yeah I won't go into my my pest. So the second is
um is there a rightway to the infiltration basin that needs to be maintained for operation and maintenance. There's no there's there there's the right of way where the drains go and that would be the only way that they can
get there. There is an existing old driveway that comes falls down here that could be used. But we we're gonna but we're going to have to this will be something that we're going to have to discuss as part of the storm water aspect. Um it's going
to be something that Matt Matt and myself have have had questions on. Yeah. So there's possibility there could be uh what do we call it in infrastructure associated with the infil infiltration basin that is not proper to the
infiltration okay on that subject the way it's written in the bylaws it says infiltration and detention basins and similar infrastructure doesn't say that it says related infrastructure okay if you can quote it
exactly I similar. It's different from related. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it could be something similar. I'm just saying I mean just make sure you have margin because Right. But but I think if if we're saying similar infrastructure to detention and infiltration
basin, my interpretation of that is is that if you're digging out the ground for a basin, then it applies. If you're not digging out the ground and you're not changing the topography, then it does not apply. But that's my interpretation.
So if that's how I read it. So if it comes up as we get into storm water and access if there needs to be I knew that issue would come up and and I think it's something that we we should resolve because um agreed because there there's a lot of
more done than just digging a hole in the ground there. and and and then it's a whole different ball game if if they not but the way I interpreted it was that it it compares it to infiltration or detention basin and that is digging a hole in the ground
changing the topography. And then my last um I absolutely unless you want to jump on this topic gathering information um the park there's going to be a um a
pocket park or a proposed pocket park down on Gren Harvard Road down here. Yes. It's a it's a public asset. Um is is it is it defined as open space?
Yes. So that's part of the open space. Okay. I mean a public a park is open space. Yeah. Yep. I think that's almost the purpose of the open space is for public access. Thank you. Ken, did you have a question
for public? Yes. So first of all, we haven't decided that we're we're going to get a park down there yet or that we want a park down there. But if there is one, it is defined as open space. So to applicant Ian um there's definitely
going to be an issue here in my mind as to to what this means for the related infrastructure and in particular in the change drawing that you're not showing subsurface basins over the cult basins but formally you you showed the uh just
drainage so now you are digging a second infrastructure type of drainage storm water drainage so the way I read this This is the this is from the rules our regulations not directly from the bylaw but it applies the same which is from our open space residential
development regulations and design guidelines. Location of storm water management basin and facilities is the word at the end. Stormwater basins in parenthesis detention and retention basins and related infrastructure cannot be located in the open space that are
needed to count towards the 50% required open space per the OSID and so forth and so on. storm water basins and related infrastructure can be cited in extra open space meaning extra you'd give it to us somewhere else I guess provided the extra open space was not used to earn the density bonuses and so on so
the way I read this which may be controversial is that the piping in the second um where the cult structures are down by Guatav road now that's all related infrastructure so you're going to go in there I think you just used the
word dig up so you're going to dig dig trenches. You're going to install catch basins. You're excuse me, you're going to install manholes on the pipeline for the storm water. You're going to disturb the whole area. And your contention, I think, is you're going to put it back
together at the end and overseed it and whatnot. So, this is a point of contention. I believe at least we should be looking at the amount of land that's where the cult systems are again and deduct that because I believe that is definitely related infrastructure to the
the rest of the project. Um we might make a case for the pipelines if you're going to put them back together again I guess and resurface it and whatnot. Even if you turn it into a park it still has to be maintained. There'll be a a place for maintenance the whole works. So I think there's a definite situation there
that we have to talk about. Um, the other thing I'm interested in in the open spaces, and I'm not sure if we have to go back now to conservation for another analysis because of the strips of land that you've cut out. So, these strips are typically not what we're looking for. We're looking for
contiguous open space. It is contiguous. I know, but contiguous to the major piece. I think this is kind of winding around. Not sure of the value. Can I just The other question I have is the other question is if you in fact disturb this with grading lines. This whole area
showed retaining walls before in the first print. Now it shows this grading. So shouldn't we considering this part of the digging and whatnot disturbing the open space and you know my opinion on open space is that it should remain as much as
possible undisturbed. So in essence, the open space is basically creating a way for you to build the buildings by excavating, grading, whatever you got to do to damage it. And uh I think that could be eliminated with just a retain.
We just Well, I have to name address I have to acknowledge you first before you can speak. That's part of my concern. Um, the last part of my concern is I think it's going to be very blatantly obvious that the Cacera's rightway is not going to be used in the open space. But I'll wait for Danny's answer from
the because I can't see how you can put a conservation restriction on top of a right away and bound it with, you know, markers and everything else when they have the right to use it under their deed. I was asked to ask for town council. I am not a legal person, so I
can't make that interpretation. Go to town council. Well, Ken, you're not a legal saying. I'm just giving you my opinion. So, that's my opinion. Well, you just said I don't think we needed to go there. That's So, just telling you that. But your opinion is not based on
law on on your expertise. Okay. All right. So, anyway, um I think we have a I think we have a situation here. We have to look closely at the disturbance that's caused within the easements, if you want to call them that, because they're going to become easements. I believe at the end of the day the
utility easements and on the ANR plan that you submitted with the drawings that's how they are labeled on the ANR plan these are so my last question is on the open space and this is not questioning your you know uh capacity as a civil engineer but you turned in an
ANR plan it's stamped by another engineer did they do this calculation for you as well they did the calculation on the first open space I believe right But that that plan of land property lines are all that's all
that that does and puts the easement on on the ANR. Yeah, the plan of land has nothing to that's going to get updated that that don't ignore that. My question was did the other did you do this 50% calculation or did the surveyor do the 50% calculation? Yes. On a surveyed
plan. Okay. Yes. Can I just one thing about this contiguous this right here? This is allowed. You guys have done on other projects. Can can I can I make a comment on that? What you just said? There is a requirement of 30T 30 ft and that is a 30 foot structure. But that 30
foot is only between units if you're going to provide open space between units. So this was allowed on Shaker Mill Pond. Um this was allowed on Curly Circle. Okay. So just bring it up. I just I know and I but that's why I want to make sure like this is something that
was allowed. I think the important thing on the open space calculation is going to be the easements and excavation that occurs within the easement. Well, whether it's related infrastructure to the detention and retention basins and then we have to
decide the easement does not count. No, no, I'm saying on the ANR plan they call it a utility easement. It's it's defined on the plan. Yeah. So, we have to decide whether the work. I guess it doesn't matter if you call it an easement or not an
easement. We need to decide, I guess, in that if that disturbed area is part of the construction. Okay. I wasn't sure if you meant the whole easement cuz that that wouldn't be counted towards wouldn't be removed. What do you mean by the whole easement? The actual 30 foot
wide strip of the easement. Are you talking about the line the lines that are shown? These these lines? Yeah. Yeah. So my indication is it it could be considered the entire process. Yes. Not just the way I we've had a conversation
about this. I'm Yeah. Yeah, I just want to make sure what what I'm asking to get clarified by the board, I guess, is the new layout where we show the cult infiltration systems, which I think is definitely related, and whether we have to consider the rest of the construction
that happens through in throughout the the construction, not the the lines on the paper. No, not the lines on the paper. Okay, that that's my clarific. That's what I needed to know. In other words, it's related. Hundreds of feet of 24 inch pipe going in. Excuse me. Hundreds
of feet. Hundreds of feet of 24 inch pipe going in and it's the same going in 10 12t deep. There are also water lines in there, sew lines in. It's completely disturbed. Can I can I make a comment on that? the the as I said in my interpretation is
it's a matter of changing the grade or not changing the grade because when when they compare it to an infiltration basin or a detention basin and similar infrastructure related
or or related related infrastructure okay um related infrastructure related to the project it's not similar um Uh yes it's a struggle but it says storm water basins. Yeah but it's it's the and storm water basins in parentheses detention and retention
basins closed and related infrastructure cannot be located in the open states and so on and so forth. So are you saying that um I'm saying the work base the thing at the bottom? Yes, for sure. Because it's definitely related infrastructure and I'm contending that the balance of the work to get it's a
follow-up to Nathan's kind of concept that you need to have related infrastructure to get to the basin, maintain the basin and to build the whole system. The system is constructed, you know, entirely in the open space. And if I'm reading the plans correctly,
if I may, Mr. disc. I think I count eight um manholes. Eight eight man holes, which is a potential maintenance issue. So, well, they're there for maintenance. You you when you said the changing the
grade, is that what you just mentioned? Yeah. Those there's some tremendous drop manholes there on that very deep, but it doesn't change the grade. So, you're containing that you can put them in at the grade
That's there. And but what about the excavation for the depth of the pipe that's going to go through there? Well, there's also sewer pipe, water line. Exactly. The whole thing. And that is for the benefit of the town. And we're doing it um to meet town requirements.
There'd be no lines there if there was no development. So, that's kind of a crazy argument that you just said. I don't know why you come up with that. The development needs the sewer and water. So I'm just putting it out there for thought that I think there's a dispute
or something to figure out that that there's different we haven't had this happen before. So if we go back to other projects, we talked about other projects, but we've done what we have done. Interestingly enough, we've never had a project where the water and sewer went through the open space. They've ended prior to the open space. Retention
systems have been in open spaces because typically you're running it down just off the just off the developed area. This is very different. So the disturbance is going to be done I believe is related infrastructure and that's my point. So
we have to I think you need to be forewarned that we need to think about this but at a minimum the uh where the area of the cult systems are I think definitely would be the same as almost a retention and there's one other issue here. Yep. Well there's
probably more but this is Yeah. So, I just want to make sure I think we're getting a little ahead because this is going to be part of the discussion that we're going to have to have at a later date. Well, I'm just trying to think way if he has to make an adjustment to think about this.
It might be a good time for him to think about it. Yeah, right. I I think another factor that should be brought in is the fact that that house the existing house is being taken down that would have been part of the open space and the
the house the house where the cults are going I believe is what he's speaking the cults is going a large portion of the footprint of the house is the call tech but that happens to be where they did the testing that's an I'm just translating I I I
think the relevant thing here is I want to turn to the town planner. What's the path to resolution of this issue about whether or not that infrastructure can be conducted through the open space without compromising the how do we get
to that answer? Um I think I'm going to have to talk to Charlie the building commissioner on that and and if necessary a waiver can be granted. Yeah, I would phrase it. A waiver can be asked for a waiver can be well can be requested. So you
can our our guidelines do allow for waiverss, right? Um I know people in the public have been waiting patient. I'm sorry. I didn't I'm sorry. I just I can ask go around the might have to go
around. I think you should go first to lay this out. Um so one of the problems difficulties I had with working with this was trying to ascertain even as a percentage the amount of square area that was going to be disturbed in the construction or left over. It's just hard to know. It would be helpful to have those those numbers in the calculation also. I think they're gerine
to the com. In my mind, um it's very important to understand what is and isn't disturbed and is appropriate in the open space. Also, in my mind, because I'm the guy who thinks in numbers, it's helpful to have the square area, the numbers of the um of what's going to be here. And I
appreciate yes, a 24 in piece of pipe that's very 10 ft deep might just be 2 ft wide, but there is an ement that's going to need needed above it. We've got handfuls of manhole cover. So, there's going to be some disturbance there that will remain afterwards. So, it would help me to understand in square footage
what that impact is and I couldn't find it on the plants. That just may be I couldn't find it. So, it may be there. But, thank you, Julie. Sorry, it's another technical issue. In order for me to be able to stay present in this meeting, I'm just going to update everyone and then I'm
going to my priority is for me to follow this meeting. is giving us a 10-minute warning that Zoom is timing out and we are not on Zoom Pro. So, I just want to make a statement to the people on Zoom. I'm going to disconnect and I will reconnect and you can all rejoin if it works. Um, if it doesn't again, my
priority is to be a voting member of this board. Correct. Thank you. Thanks for your patience, Julie. I'm sorry about that. And end meeting for all. I had a question I think is extremely related to Jeff's um which I was going
to go in reference to the square footage that was on the screen. So um but I I can kind of proceed. So I just wanted to confirm because we weren't given like a square footage on open space. So the way I calculated open
space was I took the total square footage of the property that was in the box. I subtracted the square not square footage or or what have you the area for the developed lot and then I subtracted the area for the infiltration basin and I came up with a number is that correct
come up with what you specific number it got beefed when you were talking so we couldn't hear you what you said it's going to happen one more time um so so I I took total because we didn't have like a number per se for open space so I took total and
then I subtracted did the area for the developed lot and then I subtracted the area for the infiltration basin and that gave me about 269,843 um as a percentage of the total area that's 51.25 25. So the number that we have here shown up
here is 263 587. The numbers are just a little bit impeccable. Yeah. Well, I guess I'm I'm backing up Jeff's request to say I would like to see these numbers, but also in the absence of these numbers, is my math correct? It is. And the
difference is, if I may, Danny, the dark hatched areas are steep slope, right? There's no way to figure that out without Exactly. So, like I said, your logic is impeccable if you just didn't have all the numbers. Okay. Yeah. No, absolutely. That's exactly the process I went
through. Okay, Janet, just for a second. Isn't the sleep the steep slope exercise simply to show that the open space and the developed area basically have about the same amount of steep slope? That you can't put more steep slope in the open space than you've got in the developed
area? I disagree with that. Okay. I think you can put as much steep slope as you want to in the open space as long as imagine as long as um compensate if if you could
you could you could add enough steep slope and you'd still be less you you'll still be 50%. You can't be more than 50% um on on on one on on on steep on the open space than you can on your land.
Now, if you put more on there, then you got to make sure that if you if you what you have for steep slopes in open space, if you added that steep slope back, you weren't more than 50% overall. So the
way I worked it out was make sure that with the 50% and and uh the infiltration basin there was still a balance of area in the open space.
In the in yeah yeah I need to move this meeting along. Thank you. So let me get a couple of comments. Is it Janet? Did you want to make a comment? I think I wanted to talk about that strip of land. Um here just identify yourself for the
a developer one of the developers. Um I actually talked to my attorney about the script quite some time ago just to try to understand how it would factor into all this. So maybe she could get in touch with town council that may like help them to Yeah. Because what they had said to me is that
because at one point we looked at if depending on what we're doing with all this land, do we want to put a house down here somewhere and not, you know, build there? But this land is in fact owned by the Hudlands for us. Um, and there is a right of way on the deed to
this property to pass and repass on it. So Well, I mean, she had like the deeds. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have I have that information. Yeah. So I mean ownership so the ownership according to the research that
you did um the ownership is to that land. However, there is within their deed also um the right to pass and pass to pass and repass. Interesting. Yeah. So I just that's the I just need them to clarify. Yes. Put it in writing like
everything. Okay. Sorry. That's all. Thank you, Jess. And then I acknowledge the gentleman at the baseball cap of Jess has been waiting first and I'll turn to you sir. Um you know you know okay that's good I won't be long Jessica
Gino 8 Mountain View Avenue. Um I know there are a lot of different interpretations question. Are you speaking as a conservation agent or speaking as a resident with conservation interest that put me on but I'm not speaking for the commission? I am not speaking for the
commission. Are you speaking as a resident or as the as a commission member? A resident. Thank you. That's all I needed to know. So my basic question is uh all the different interpretations of what was the
intent of the meaning of open space when this bylaw was passed by the town and I think that strongly should be considered. um the easement with the driveway access um from a common sense perspective as a
resident who voted for that bylaw would not I would not consider that usable open space for residents um I think Ken's point about and Jeff's about what is the area of disturbed land uh my understanding when we voted on this
bylaw was that the intent was to protect habitat and disturbing the amount of land just to put in the easement for the utilities um is problematic to me as a resident. So that's that's all I really want to
say. But just consider, you know, there are a lot of different ways to interpret things. What did the residents of this town mean when they voted for an open space residential development? And it's, you know, and preserving preserving the land, the
woods, and the existing habitat. So, thank you, Jess. Gentlemen, if you would step up, name it after. Yep. Jacob Ker, Dirty Grunt in Harvard. Welcome. Um, so that is my right away. Um, that we're talking about right there. And it is impervious
developed land already. So, I don't know how it could possibly be an open space as it is a driveway that is impervious. It is a gravel driveway with um a coating of pavement underneath it and not across the front. So, it's already a paved developed space. I don't know how
it could be considered open space. Um, so I just want to throw that out there first on that base. I don't even think it matters who has right to it this and that. If it's developed, it can't be open space. I don't I don't think. Um and then so when I went through the math
on the basin for what was in [Music] the what's in this one the development impact statement gave an initial numbers on the undeveloped space and in that statement which was the 263,000 so not what's actually the open
space but just considered the un undeveloped space and in that document they put the impact of the basin at 7.7%. % which maps out to about 20,000 square feet, not 14,000 square feet. So I think
you're dropping about 6,000. Yeah. No, so this is the revised set of plans that are up on the website. So I'm literally looking at the plans that are on the website right now and it says 632. So then they're not correct. The impact statement he's looking at, I don't think has been revised. No, it hasn't been
revised. Yeah, that's that's what I Yeah. So that is that document says that this is 20,000 square feet. So somehow it shrunk. Yeah, they shrunk it. So they shrunk the size of the the the impact of the basin on the new plan. So they'll have to update all this. All the impact
study will need to Well, hold on. Let me copy. The impact study is actually not even required for this project. They gave it to us, right? Okay. Well, it's just the math doesn't map what's up there at all. And then um I think again with the open space and this is just my
opinion where they're taking down the house and putting in the basin up up there again that's already going to be developed in pvious space like I don't understand how that can be open space if it's developed in pvious space because you still have the foundation you're ripping out and then putting in a basin.
I would think open space could only be underdeveloped pvious space. Not isn't that true? No, you can. So if it's developed and they were to rip it all out and put grass there, then it would be considered open space. Okay. And then the the one other
math thing was uh for the entire storm. I know we're not in storm water, but it relates to the open space, which is the only reason I'm sliding it in right now. Um it's all this is actually in the notes that I submitted as a statement last week. deal. Um the uh entire storm
water infrastructure statement was at a I think the number was 40 9% or 50 two 50.2% forest. Um, I'd love to know the definition of forest there
because the basin is then brought up as grass, but that's considered forest in the storm water plant. And everything they're going to tear out to put in infrastructure is considered forest in that statement plan instead of grass. And so I don't know what the definition
from an engineering standpoint is of forest, but I think forest I think trees established root system when you're thinking storm water, not torn out and then receded, which will take decades to get back to the same level of something I would consider woods. So I just have a
open spacetorm water concern with that as well. Well said. Thank you. Um, I think we we've we've flogged this dog for the last 40 minutes and we have other things to to get at. Um, what's
the next step on the open space just so we can move forward? I mean we have some unresolved issues but no I think we're we we um discussed enough was just to make sure that based off this initial discussion based on my
review so far it it you know it meets it until we get answers to the other questions that I still have. Okay. But this is just so that the conversation so there's some issues that remain unresolved and open because answering them really requires uh answering other things first. Is that is that the
correct way of thinking of it? Okay. uh density bonuses. What what is there to be said this evening? Because remember the actual deliberation cannot take place. Yeah. No, so so that everyone knows uh so the open space density bonuses were submitted. Um there's a
description on the all of the density bonuses, what they're requesting, what they you know what they need, what they want. Um is it up on the web for people? It is up on the website as well. Okay, good. Um it's in the new It's in the new piece. Yep. It's under the second submission. Beautiful. Um so all this
information is up there. Um we will be having a a discussion on the May 27th meeting when we open that and add this into this combine it with the current um application. Um the board
uh when this opens, the board will be getting a a letter from the affordable housing tr um committee committee or trust committee. I think it was committee um on a uh interpret on a request that they had for um number two
for the affordable housing under the OSRD. Um I believe that's from the committee. Yeah, committee. Um and just to clarify, yes sir, the inclusionary housing that is uh this project is under is the one that was
passed in October which is the 10% requirement because I know right now I know there's been some confusion on whether it's 20%, whether it's 10. It's 10%. The Massachusetts inclusionary zoning law well it's our Yeah, it's it's ours too.
Yeah. But yes, it's 10% um because we changed it in October. That's right. Um I think so just a quick note, the applicant is aware of that of what that what you just
said the 10%. Yes. Okay. Yep. The applicant has the bylaw. Um the completely off Yeah. Completely off topic. It it's the website should be getting up or something. Good enough. Yes. Katherine,
can I ask a question of are we allowed to request additional information as part of this? So, in reading this document, it uh I I think it would be nice if we had a bit more information. So, at the end, it tells you that 54
units and the 20 bonus units, but it would be nice if under each section um it it told us exactly how many units like I think it would just make it easier for it's right here. It's under
the total requested bonuses. So 3.4 8.5 and 8.5. Okay. So it's not in line cuz like at first it started off in line and then it stopped being in line. So like under open space there was like nice
math saying 34 * 10 is 3 and then that that didn't happen. But I I I guess I'm just not reading the document. It's It's so the bonus. Yeah. So, it's like 3 Yeah, it's 3.4, 8.5, and 8.5. 25% of the
So, there that says three, not 3.4. So, so there it's it's Well, what I'm saying is the total doesn't match what's in each subsection. So, you can't get the calculator. Well, so I was going to say no. No, that the
bylaw says it's No, no. So the bylaw the way it it says is you do the calculations and you add them all up at the end. That's how the bylaws. Then you round then you round. You don't round after each of them. You add them all up then you round. So in
effect one more but that's okay. Yeah. And I agree with you. I but yeah, right. I'm just saying like if under open space it says 3.4 in one place and three in three in the other one. Yep. So like we can have consistent I think she just just looking at this I think it just they left off the four the
points there. I think they just forgot the four but I can that can be changes. Yeah, we can have them clarify that. It's okay. Actually it shouldn't change the math. my first determin the math the math is
based on but yes but but we'll have them but just to make sure numbers to be 20.4 before rounds down. Correct. Yep. We can have them make sure that that's addressed when they come for the meeting.
Is there anything else you want um you think? Um I don't have a clear way to say it. When I read the section about the affordable afford affordable units, I don't know that it lines up with the language and that was just a question to
take. You mean Oh, you have the right people. You mean the OSRD or the the affordable language? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because the So the and that's that's the that's what is going to come to the board on the 27. There's going to be a letter. There's no reason to discuss it
now. Yep. Correct. But the calculation that they're showing here is correct. It's the old one. It's what's shown in our in our OSRD bylaw. Okay. They're using the OSRD. Yep. I think that's as far as we can get with the density bonuses this evening.
So, would you bring up the stormwater RFP on the screen? Yes. So, this is the stormwater RFP that uh request for proposal. Yes, request for proposal. And so, I put this together with the help um from Matt, our
town engineer. he sent me the um scope of work that he felt was needed to review um the storm water uh report and so as part of that uh the application review and plan review comments
um yeah I'd like to talk about this yeah so I can you want me to read it no I'll do it if it's okay no go ahead so I I recognize is there any way to expand that so it's even larger yes because there's there look the sensitivity of
the site and uh concerns of of the abutters and others make it important that you understand how deep this review is going to go. So if you look under the um subhead that says application review and plan review comments consider all the things are involved in this. So they
are we're asking them review all the documentation provided by the applicant including the plan set the storm water management report and the storm water calculations. And what they're going to do with all that is that provide comments and recommendations to planning board. All these issues, adequacy and
completeness of proposed storm water system, accuracy and completeness of storm water calculations, conformance with air's storm water regulations, conformance with Massachusetts stormwater handbook, needed storm water permits, potential storm water impacts to downstream
abuters, and recommended off-site storm water improvements. That's just to say it's exhaustive and it will be intense. Anything else that we should note about this proposal that that you want to draw attention to, Danny? No. Um I I will
say, you know, typically the we don't do a third-party review of storm waters, but it is good to have it done. you know, sometimes uh having the peer reviewer has a little bit more, you know, sometimes they look
at it from a different aspect and and sometimes things can be caught and so it's just good to have a third party just to an extra set of eyes on this. And have you sent this out? It has been sent out. Any responses yet? Um so, uh the due date is the 30th um of April.
Um, I sent it out to Green because I because they're already doing it, so we want so we figured have them do both at the same time. Okay, good. Questions from the board about the about the storm water RFP? Um, yeah, this came to mind actually. I was looking at the
plans the other day. Um, are the garages going to have storm drains in them? Inside the garage? Yeah. No floor drains in the garages. Okay. Thank you. uh traffic peer review update. Yes. So,
uh the traffic peer review uh the traffic uh Green International had um the traffic study and they started reviewing that. Oh, they have um they started reviewing it Wednesday after our meeting. Um once we signed off and sent
everything over to them, we uh they started reviewing the traffic study. Then um last week once I received the revised plan sets I had told them that we were getting revised plan sets so not to even bother looking at the first one yet um the first uh plan set will get
them so now they have the second set the revised set of plans and the storm water report so they can actually base all of their review off of um all the information. Okay, great. Good. Uh first any questions from the board
first hearing? None. Yeah, come on up. So Jacob again, 30 road. Um just say your name so I can address you. Jacob. Okay, Jacob. Thank um so the uh the proposed third water review for
the storm water. Um two quick things on there. One is what I brought up before like the the woods versus grass. Are they going to do their own calculations on that or are they taking like the data that was already presented even though I I believe it to
be inaccurate um to to go there. So that's one of two things. So the fir on that so the way typically they do it is they'll look at the they'll look at their numbers and then they'll run the numbers again and make sure I think I think that the difference is right that like there won't be that many woods
like the forest will be cleared in that area for construction if they keep on running those numbers. I'm not an I'm not an engineer. I don't know if that makes a difference on storm water. It may not cuz it's pvious versus uh it's typically just pvious impervious but
they have three categories in their report. So I'm assuming that their report is there with the three categories because the three categories matter. And then the the second thing is like the um where it's going to be going from woods to grass is on a slope which
is going to then no longer have the sound structure of the root system to support the scope of uh soil. um therefore changing the dimensions of it. And I feel like there needs to be a storm water remediation for that area,
not just the impervious above. And I'm wondering if in any way, shape or form that can that is factored into the third party review that they're actually changing the landscape and therefore that landscape needs to be protected from runoff and erosion. Um I got a
quick comment for him. I can tell you one thing that in other projects just to back up what's going to happen in other projects the the third party peer reviewer has been very very careful and in each particular case we found that
changes had to be made to make improvements so I would say they're very qualified of what they're doing okay but it's an interesting question that we do not actually have a landscape plan that shows we do that details the
detail that Oh, no, no. We have a we have a landscape plan showing the upper area. Yeah. And you see is you understand his point. There should potentially be a detail of the top. Do me a favor. Can
you pull up the There's a detail of of that drawing, the colored in drawing, the colored one. Uh, if you have you have the most recent color, right? Loading. One second. Excuse me.
That essentially is how the calculations are done. The the woods which is the more bluish green is considered woods. The lighter green is considered grass. So wherever there's changing
grade that is going to be grass which goes for the detention basin around the detention basin and the open space by where the house is and so on. If you want to argue that where they dig
up to put in the drains, that is not going to be lawn. That is going to be woods because the trees there are still going to be large enough to cover most of that area. It's never going to be
mowed. It's going to overgrow. Um and it will not be like any other kind of lawn. The pool the the pond itself is going to be mowed lawn has to be mowed lawn. The the area that
open space there is considered um lawn for for playground or whatever. and and and and we could leave that up to to peer review on that, but but and and
I think that is really splitting hairs. If you really want to split hairs, we can go on to talk about trees that are being put on this property that are not taken into account that's on the landscape plan where all the bushes are being put.
um where it's not lawn, where it is it's it's soil, it's it's bushes and so on. You can go on and on and on if you really want to start spitting his but essentially how the calculations is
done. The third party reviewer when we met meet with them we can rate we can raise it and see to them if they think it's going to make a difference in the calculation. Yeah, that area is currently structurally un it's barely hanging on. So you remove two or three
trees that dirt's going to flow. So when you do the site does it take a look where those pipes that gentleman with the glasses would you like to step up and I I acknowledge you and you'll be next and your name and address sir? Norman Buck.
I'm at 58 Central A. Following on his comment, I am literally directly south of there and that buffer strip which is you know it's right you talked about the open space. Yeah. Where moving mouse
that going from trees to grass is going to change how it handles the storm run off the trees. You know trees will block it more. I already have water coming down in the spring and snow melt there in a storms. So I'm concerned
he's talking about the storm run man runoff issues. Just want to follow up on his. I'm going in that direction. Mhm. And just given the nature of the construction, I can see that being torn up and replanted and you're not going to have the mature trees in there. So want
to look at maintaining that water. That's fall. Oh my god. Thank you. And I'm going to make just a quick comment before I turn to the woman in navy blue uh shirt. Uh I am not dismissive of Jacob's concerns. I actually am
concerned and that will be part of my thinking when we get to that because once you cut and you actually start breaking root systems, behavior changes. We know that. So I'm not so I would add that to the list of things that we're going to have to be delete to
investigate in our deliberations and I am concerned about. Thank you. I'm so would you like to come up very briefly? Yep. And name and address, please. Sure. Julian Goang 34A Road. Just for my own clarification, the lighter green, if I
understood you correctly, the lighter green, which would be this area over to the right. Yep. So, the light light green, that's the park, that's the basin. The bluer green is the slope behind my house and the forest and everything. So when you put in the basin
to get to everything, that entire slope will not be trees anymore as well. So we're not just talking about up on the hill. We're talking about all around the hill. Just this. But that's what I'm Okay. Yeah. Yeah. How are you going to
get to that? That's a question. All of that stuff. Yep. That's a question that we have. So yeah. So So I'm just correctly. Good. It is a concern and an ongoing meetings. Yep. That is an issue indeed.
Okay. Anyone on Zoom that uh No, I mean they're there but so so I think to wrap this portion of it, traffic peer review is in process. Yeah. So we should we should have the
um traffic back for the May 27th meeting. Wow. Big meeting. Well, so and this is where I want one of the questions I wanted to discuss with the board was the so the storm water I'm hoping will also be ready by then. M um I'm
hoping that Green will have something to me um this week on the RFP. Um and then um we can kind of go out from there and get that going uh and hopefully get that in time as well because there's also
department heads are reviewing the plans. They're going to provide comments. I have I asked them to have them ready for us so that we can discuss them at the maint as well. So, what does the board want to do at the May 27th? I think that's an
excellent question because I can see the either the density bonuses or the stormware occupying the full two hours and the traffic as well. The traffic. So, I think it wise that we pick one. Yeah. So, that's and that's the big thing. So, I think the density bonuses I
think that we could do probably two topics. I think I think we could do the in my opinion would be since we're opening the density bonus we'd be discuss that there not going to be obviously no vote. I don't know why I keep I know I'm going to work on that.
It's okay if if it ends and it ends. Y um we can discuss the density bonus. Well, there's not going to be a vote at that point. Obviously, it'll it's going to be an, you know, a discussion about the information, what you guys need to make your determination, what's going to be part of that determination, and then
I think I think the traffic study could be the next topic because the department head comments and the review of the storm water that could take 3 4 hours if if
depending on I'm agreeing with you because here's the thing I I noticed from the last meeting and from letters that have come in people are concerned about when do I show up for X issue there's certain issue I'm concerned about so I'd rather say to people look we're going to do the density bonuses to get the full count and we're going to
introduce the traffic but to leave the storm water out for the next meeting for two reasons one that people really interested in that many people are don't feel that their time is wasted but then they know there is a specific date in which we're going to dedicate a huge amount of time to that. Yes. If I may ask a question just so
understand we get the strong water review. I'm going to play devil's advocate. Changes need to be made. Yeah. Construction has to happen. Open space versus not open space will change. We have the ability to move things around. You can do things. We you can do things based on what's happening. So that's
going to have that may have some impact on the bonuses. It could. But at this point that's 3.4 four of the units just so we're all thinking about it. Okay, it's not 20 units. So, just understand that storm water is going to
have an impact, but that's, you know, as we think about as we we're not going to be able to give the actual B total bonus answer at the next meeting. No, no, no. But I just want to correct guys. That's correct. Nice to know where the road goes sometimes. Well, I want Thank you. wants to know where the road goes. Sorry
to be so simple and clear, but I'm practicing from Monday night. Um I think we are looking for continuence, right? So let me let's just make sure. So on the next meeting we'll discuss traffic and density. Okay. Next just so that everyone
knows it's traffic and density. And this will be put on the on the agenda when it's on there uh when we um when we post the agenda. And so that everyone understands we post it 48 hours before the meeting not including weekends. So
that so I typically post it on Fridays just so that everyone knows because I know sometimes people reach out earlier in the week. I have not posted it. I post it 48 hours. That's our legal obligation. Um just so that everyone knows just before you go home and you
can't get emails from us. I'm joking. Yeah. Yes. Can I ask a very quick question please? The traffic study will include just the development area or will that include broaden harbor growth? So the the study will include what they
have uh studied the studied areas. So Graten Harvard road there's I don't believe there's any impacts. It's not looked at because there's no road there. So I don't believe it it it includes Graten Harvard road but the traffic study will um the peer reviewer will determine whether they went wide enough
or not. You know why I'm asking putting a park on Harvard road that and that could be an yeah that could be an impact. So, it's and that's something that we may need to, you know, revisit at a later date. But, yeah. And could we could we may could we ask the
reviewer? I know typically when they do a traffic study, they have numbers of trips per unit. If we if we had a pocket park down there, could they opine on what the number of trips would be for Oh, yeah. They would parking space. They would need to. Yeah. I think that's the piece
you might be asking to go back. Well, I'm just I don't I don't think a part Yeah. because of the speeding and nastiness that happens on that road. Motion for continuance. Move to continue. Zero High Street and
38 Groten Harvard Road Lillin Hills map 27 2830 41657 189 applications I plan review until May May 27th. Seconded. Any further discussion? Yes, Nathan. Um, I
certainly appreciate having this application before us and I just want to underscore as you opened last meeting, Mr. Chair, particularly the diversity of housing that's being presented. Um it's it's it's a real opportunity and
I'm glad um glad to be able to review it and uh I know that uh we will take a careful look at it. It's it's really um thoughtful uh proposal. All
right. And now do you vote? Yes. Tilly. Yes. Nathan I. Jeff. Hi. Chair votes I. So, we'll be uh continuing the public hearing for Lincoln the Lincoln Hill Pro Hills Hills project May 27th
before the next time. What's that? Just while the people leave, can we take two minutes while people leave? Oh, yes. We'll take a we'll take a a brief recess. Thank you. Thank you all for coming. And yeah, this new meeting, this meeting is back in session. Um do you
we added to the agenda uh the summary of where the town meeting warrants. Would you like to start that before your project status updates? Why don't we start with the warrants and just give us the brief uh summary run up and so we understand what we're doing Monday night. Yes. Uh so on Monday night uh the
planning board has um five I'm on it. We have five uh warrants before a town meeting. Right. Five articles on the warrant. Five articles on the warrant. There we go. Thank you
for town moderator. Um the five that we have, let me just get to them. [Applause] Thank you. Yep. So, um, article 27 is the zoning,
uh, bylaw amendment required for the flood plane, which is the one that we're doing because of the state, uh, the zoning bylaw amendment to the flood plane overlay district, um, as well, which corresponds to the first one. Y, right, both together. Yep.
Zoning bylaw amendment accessory dwelling units, which is the change with the recent law that was passed in August. Um the next one is the zoning bylaw amendment to the update of the table of use for accessory dwelling units. It's
just coincided to reflect the uh the the new law change. And then the uh zoning bylaw amendment to uh the zoning map to show the uh the update on the uh parcel. I don't know the number. It's the it's
the correct parcel. The correct parcel out on um out on Bishop Road. I was on there too. Should we call it bishop road or McFersonson? It's bishop at this because I know the GIS shows it as different. Board members Jeff will let us know in advance of the meeting whether our presence will be required at
the table on the deis and he'll let us know. I imagine that we will put they will the finance committee will be on the deis. Um if you're there please um you know I can see where you sit. We may have to get you together if you have to discuss something but I'm assuming that you'll speak on behalf of the board for
any question. I guess I would take it. But oh yeah, presentations will be done by D. I will have the presentation question if if there's a question regarding the board if they need if like you know someone wants to know what the board's opinion was on something. We will need someone to speak and ask the
chair. Yeah, I got that. But the final weighs in on I think it's 17 of the 27 articles or something. So they'll sit on the board. They'll sit on the stage. Beautiful. We may have more chairs. I don't know. Go ahead. While I am following what is being said as the person who wants to get rid of formality, what is on the deis up on the
stage? On the stage. Sorry, I agree with you. I don't know what it was. I just didn't I just ignored it. Okay. I am one of them. I just ignored it. Okay. I have not used the term on the de. You have to be over 50 to know what it means. Which is why I have refused to go on the deis without being invited. It's like that
song from the 80s. On the deis. Rock me on the deis. We can do a little dance or not working. Not working. All right. This is why I'm board chair and not a comedian. Um, project I will follow up for sure and let you know. All right. We appreciate
that. I'll let you once he lets me know, I will let everyone know. Wonderful. Please don't say on project status updates. I might just for you. Yes. Um, project status update. So, air the air substation. This is the national grid project. Yes.
So, actually, we just received an email today um from the uh uh uh the engineer. They have some minor changes that they're kind of going back and forth with on uh with Matt right now. Let's talk about the Park Street substation, not the big stuff. Okay. Yep. The the
Park Street we've been discussing, Bishop and Park. Um they're going back and forth with Matt right now on some um some minor clarification uh points on the plan. Um they did do some tree clearing along the front of uh Park
Street. No, not Park Street. Um Bishop both. They did both. They did they did some clearing on both sides. Yeah, they did. They've done some clearing on the on Park Street as well. Um the erosion controls, have they been installed? Yep. Finalized. Okay. So, and they're doing SWIP
inspections. So, that is currently ongoing. Um yeah, so that's kind of where they are right now. They're still in the early stages of this. They expect this to take 2 to 3 years, they said of work. Really? Yeah. All the equipment because
of the equipment, I'm assuming. Um, but it says that's that's their timetable. I'm waiting for a construction schedule for from them um on it, but um as of right now, that's kind of their timetable. All right. I I have to confess I'm taken by surprise, but there there you go. It didn't seem like much
work, but this is part of a larger project. Um, this this runs all across the state that they're doing this. Um, so it's not only this one. I don't think they'll be working for two years. No, no, no. They won't be. I I get that. Right. And and it it seems like it'll be
minimally disruptive. I mean, given their location and what I've seen so far, the most disruption that it will be is uh for conservation purposes where the ditch and the the flood compensatory storage is. That's the most um invasive portion.
which um you know Heather is involved and Matt will be involved when they do the clearing out of that pipe and cleaning out of the dirt. So that'll be um you know eyes will be on that. 42 Park. 42 Park. Uh Heather, can you come
up and just give them everyone an update on Oh boy. where they are through conservation. I don't need to introduce myself to you guys. You know who I am. Um, so for 42 Park Street due to um some I I'm not going to say minor. Um,
due to No, no, you don't have to say minor. I gave them an update. They already knew at the last meeting. Okay. So, it's due to site changes. So, they've gone through conservation. We held a site visit in the snow um last week. Uh they gave us three options. Uh
the commission asked for a fourth. Um I just received that today. We'll meet on it on Thursday. Whether or not they agree with either of those or a combination of them, I don't know. Um they were to say they were uh unhappy with the what situation on site would be an
understatement. So I don't know what the how the commission's going to go on on that. Um whether we get to a solution on Thursday, I don't know. They do have their temporary occupancy. Good. Um but that was granted through Charlie, but that was only a 60-day occupancy. So,
um, and I don't know if the the pavement res if the solution hasn't been resolved yet at that that's up to the building department. So, we're still in in talks with that. I don't know how far is going to go. Okay. Can you send me that new plan? Mhm. It has angled parking and it
looked like it was removing more of the pavement uh closer to the the buffer so to the Okay. head wall of the street. Yeah. Cuz as every you know, I gave the board an update. It was definitely increased the amount of pavement out there. So, and what a perfect day to go
do a site plan on an improperly built project during the snow. The la the funny thing with that site, the day we went to go look at it for the permitting process was in December and it was raining/ snowing that day. Yeah. So, we apparently only go to that site in the rain. So, you know what's going on with
the sheet runoff and the last site visit we had, it snowed that day, too. So apparently the wrong day. Thank you, Heather. No, I have a question. Wait, you have a question for Heather? Coming back, please. So, Heather, the the meeting that you guys
had. Yes. So, what you're saying is at the end of that meeting there was they did not vote. Oh, gosh. Okay. So, no, they they then we just heard that Mr. Schultz granted a temporary CO, a 60-day CO. the commission. We haven't done any inspection on the site, the planning board to determine if it complies with
the drawings turned into us. Should we don't do that? You don't do that. You don't. It's that's that's through me. Okay. The final goes through you. I make I I'm the the I do everything between. I know that. So, but we haven't done a final. No, no, no. Finals won't come.
Finals are I don't expect them to to be asking for a final for They still do all the landscaping. They still have quite a bit. Yeah. only for the um only for the uh salon and that's the the commission voted to allow for that. I didn't know
the commission was authorized to get cos to people but isn't that No, no, no, no. Charlie, they just said it was temporary issues with Yes. Yes. They would let it go for 60 days basically. Yeah. Yeah. The commission obviously didn't could not do
any restrictions as far as the CO in regards to the the items that the issues that we have out on the site. The building commissioner said if the conservation commission had any issues on there, he would hold off on the on the CO until those issues are resolved.
The commission decided to not hold up the occupancy for the salon given the given the issues that are on site. Correct. They they were I I did mention it and they are going to do that and I don't know if they have it yet on site to mark
out where the parking would be there. So so as to not use that additional pavement that was put off closest to the buffer due to the the the slope that's out there being on a one to one grade. So they were supposed to do that aspect of it. Um I'll ask that question. She's going to build the thing with her to the
end and decide it's okay. That's basically what's going to happen. She's never going back to the original plan which was approved. Yeah. So, so the way it works is now to the end we're basically going to be negotiating how she fits the whole they fit the whole thing in there. We're ne So, it'll be
going through myself and Heather and Charlie will negotiate what the um pavement looks like at the end, but it's only only the end only the bottom side of the the site. Correct. But it'll never be a grade the grade that was
approved. No, they're 2 and 1/2 ft low. It'll it won't be negotiating from here to the end to Yeah. So it if if what they propose to Heather and myself does not properly address the storm water concern and
provide the adequate parking then they will need to come back to the planning board cuz that's the main concern is storm water and the parking. Does it work? Does it function as it's supposed to? If they could is the site is ADA compliant. So whatever else
Well, landscaping is not changing that they they will have to abide what's on the plan that that I've already told them that if there are any modifications that may be minor, I'll look at them and determine whether or not they need to go back to the board. Um, if they do need
to go back to the board, then they'll need to come back before you for a minor modific for a modification depending on how uh substantive it is. But I Charlie and I make that determination. So, I'm going to if I may make make a comment, not to start a
brewhaha here. Um, I look back three years ago, it was on that property. And even though that this one has had fits and starts, I'm actually happy with the 60-day. It's going to give the owner more impetus to get it done right
the way we need get it done the way we need to have it done. But having a business there, there it's good. two more apartments there. It's good. Three, three, whatever. Three more apartments there. It's good. But but and I I'm not
disagreeing with you in any way. I'm just making a statement. It looks like a negotiation. And the commission's concern has has nothing to do with storm water or parking. It's the amount of pavement that has gone over into the So whatever we come up with as a solution,
we also have to make sure whatever the commission votes on, then gets approved by. Yeah. So once Yeah. So once Heather and the board get to a point where they they know what they want, I will also look at that and make a determination at that
point. Does this need to go back to the board? I you know based on the three options that I had seen. I don't think they would need to go back to the board uh because they address the storm water issues and it's going to go to the right locations. The basins not I mean the sub
uh the infiltration basin or sub the chambers. Wow, I'm all over the place. The chambers are there in the right look in the right locations. So, the grade is lower, but it shouldn't it shouldn't have an adverse impact if properly
paved. Okay. Thank you. Stratton Hill. Stratton Hill. Thank you. Uh, so last week, was it last week? Hi there. Two weeks ago. Last meeting. Last week you were on. Okay. Thank you. Last week we uh had our pre-construction
meeting out there. Um they have the erosion controls all in. Um they're going to be up there for about two to three weeks they said of tree clearing. Oh yeah. Um just in the back. Get out of my driveway for eight hours yesterday. Oh really? What? Which I Well, they were
kind and they offered if we gave them a half an hour lead time, they would move the trucks. But I think out of everybody in my neighborhood, I don't know if they picked me on purpose, but um but they cleared out a lot of awesome I was saying to Heather that um I cut
you off, Danny. I'm sorry. No, no, no. Tires. They had like 10 tires in the back of their truck. They were clearing. I mean, they're they're moving, but um yes, they are very much working on trees and a lot of trucks. Big big truck. I I think the strangest thing we saw up
there was a refrigerator filled with frozen food that had been that turned moldy. Remember that. Why was an entire It was strange. Weird. Anything else on Shrine Hill? Um no. So I mean other than so they are getting they are doing their Yeah, they they they started they were
ready. Um you know I I wasn't sure what their timet was going to be but you know they they were like let's let's let's keep going. Let's let's get this moving. So, you know, I'm waiting on a construction schedule from them as well. Um, they're going to be providing that. Uh, but right now they're just in the
tree clearing mode. It's going to take them 3 weeks probably is what I guess to clear out what they need to clear. Um, and then they're going to be doing the project in phases for what they're going to do. Um, like the basin down below is
not going to be done till probably the end of the project. The basin up top is probably not going to be done till after the clearing and stuff gets done because it's probably going to be used as temporary settling basin. So, there's still a ways away. Um, there's going to
be some blasting, but there's going to be proper notification for that course that's going to be followed. Um, we talked about all that. So, we went through all that. And they did say that they're going to move that existing trailer that they have there. They're going to move it up further. so that
it's not upfront um and use that as um it's usable. They're gonna just use it for storage. Um need a lot of storage. Yeah, they're gonna need some storage. So, it's just going to use it. They're going to pull it up there and use it for storage. Uh we advised them about, you
know, putting some uh uh silt sacks in the um three catch basins that are out on Wright Road. just they did have the erosion controls out like they were supposed to, but I said just to be, you know, safe and precautionary, they're going to put that. And when they do the silt sucks, did they does someone
actually monitor them? So they Oh, yeah. That's part of the SWIP inspections. That'll be part of the SWIP inspections because I don't like it when they fill up and no one's Oh, yeah. No, no, no. So swip inspections will that'll be part of that. Um Yeah. Um trying to think of anything else. I got a question for you.
Go ahead. Now that the project started, have we determined where the sewer is going? Yeah. As it's shown on the plan to connecting to the existing pump station uh to the town's pump station that's being upgraded. Um I sent out uh edits to the minutes
that Heather uh thank you sent to us for March 25th. Mr. Chair. Yeah. I'm sorry. May I add we have a site visit on Thursday morning. That's right. We do. I just wanted to remind people 8 a.m. 8 a.m. Yeah. Do you know if they stake it at all by now? I did not I did not check, but I'll ask
them tomorrow and ask them if they could stake out the uh retention station in the line all the way to Grton Road to the house, not just the center line of the street. I want to walk the whole place. I thought they were supposed to stake something. Yeah, we tested the
center line of the road. Yeah, you asked for the center line of the road. I don't know if they'll be able to get out there in time. We'll know what pretty much what they can show us pretty much. They can show us. Yeah, I I I mean I've been out there. I've I've done inspections. Walk that hole. Yeah, just down the
Sorry about the minutes. I wanted to Thank you. Um so I I sent those revised minutes. Um do I have a motion for approval? The March 25th, 2025. Move to approve the meeting minutes from March 25th, 2025. Seconded. Any any further
discussion? Hearing none. Ken I. Julie. Yes. Kathleen. I think. Can I ask Kathleen to vote on this one? Kathleen. Yes. Nathan. I. Jeff. I will abstain. Oh, of course. Because you weren't there. That's right. Thank you, Jeff. And uh chair chair says I approve.
Motion to adjurnn. So good meeting, folks. Thank you very much.