WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=mSR0sCg1W2g

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: mSR0sCg1W2g):
- 00:00:00: Meeting Call to Order, Agenda and Minutes Approval
- 00:02:43: Continuation: Sawyer May LLC Orion Park Drive Hearing
- 00:08:37: Continuation: New England Power Company Transmission Line Upgrade
- 00:15:14: Public Input 1: Ken Disc; Senior Center Project
- 00:28:41: Public Input 2: Rachel Kazera; Concerns About Conservation Land
- 00:41:14: Office Updates, Upcoming Meetings, and Project Status
- 00:54:39: Public Input 3: Ken Disc; Air Solar Conservation Restriction Status
- 01:03:57: Draft Regulation Review and Future Agenda Planning


Part: 1

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Good evening. This is a meeting of the Air Conservation Commission on Thursday, April 23rd, 2026 in Scenic Air Town Hall. Um, with us in attendance tonight are Commissioner John Schmalenburgger,

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Conservation Agent Heather Hampson, Clerk Jenna Maya, and Commission Member Member George Bacon, and Vice Chair Mark Phillips. and I am the chair Jessica Gino if I forget myself.

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Okay, first on the agenda is approval of the agenda. Any changes? >> Only have one change and that's to add the D file number for the National Grid Project at 100-051. >> Okay, so we're just >> 05501,

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excuse me. 100-01. Yeah. So, it's just a correction to there is a D file number for the uh New England Power Company notice of intent. Other than that, very minimal amendment. Do we have a motion to approve the

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agenda as amended? >> So, >> second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Chair votes I. Any opposed? Crickets. That pass. Uh, next on the agenda is approval of

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the meeting minutes for April 9th, 2026. >> Mark sent a correction today, so I edited it. It was just a in the street. >> I put like FC instead of order of conditions. So, I typed it out. It's in

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there now. I sent it to Heather to print out, but everything else is the same. >> Okay. >> But I actually checked that and you can use OC. So it doesn't necessarily have to change, but I was looking at that. I was like, >> is that just something I wasn't aware of? So

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>> yeah, I think I'd prefer if we had a standard either order of conditions written out or all caps OC. >> Yeah. >> Well, it's written out. >> Just Okay. >> Either way is fine. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. >> Anybody else have issues? I did not give

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it a thorough scrubbing. >> I was surprised I didn't have an email from me. Well, you look so sad at our last meeting. I thought I would put my microscope scope away. >> No, it has nothing to do. >> All right. Uh motion to approve the

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meeting minutes as corrected. >> So move. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Chair votes I. Any opposed? >> Crickets. Okay. Next on the agenda is reopening the p or not reopening continuing

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continuing the public hearing for the notice of intent for Sawyer May LLC Orion Park Drive. This was a notice of intent opened under the bylaw, not the wetlanders protection act. So there is no D file number.

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What is the latest here? We have >> Good evening board members. Joe Catalo, manager, Sawya May LLC. Um, we are making progress almost as fast as the turtles walk, but we're getting there. Little pun. No, it's a turtle

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hurdle. Um, so where we are at now is that Goddard Associates has sent the um impact

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to mass wildlife. The response back was that as of u yesterday from uh Tim and I'll just read it to you.

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Um Tim Maguire uh thank you for sending the assessment. This addresses the first item of additional information. Today they have not received materials to address the second item listed herein. I've received two separate conceptual plans with two different

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dates on them showing different limits of work. I note that the habitat assessment includes an impact analysis of a portion of the 2022 2823 plan. In order to continue my

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review, I need one cohesive plan showing all proposed work as outlined in the second item of the division's determination. Until I am able to understand the limits of work associated with the project in the context of on-site habitat, I cannot

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provide much feedback. Do you have a sense of when I can expect that? So, what we've done is we've contacted God associates. Our engineer Shawn Malone is going to

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take um a plan and show the impact on lot four and it's only on lot four only. We're buying lot four and lot five but we there is

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I'm sorry that I don't have a bigger plan. There is an impact on the corner of lot four. >> Okay. So, what we're going to do, Sean will send a plan to guard it um no later than Monday that we will then get them to

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bless and then forward it on to Mass Wild. >> Okay. >> So, stay tuned. >> All right. So, we're not holding things up there. >> No, not at all. >> Good. >> Um I know you have a meeting in two weeks. Unfortunately, I'm going to have

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surgery that day, so I won't be here. I'll make sure that my son or more than likely my son will be here just to report in where where we're at hopefully. Um he did say he meaning Mass Fish and

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Wildlife that he he um as a heads up I'll be in the area this week and Mike stopped by to take a look at the pool myself. I didn't know it was a pool. I thought it was a pond but anyway >> oh the the vernal pool. All right. But anyway, we're moving but not as fast as

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we'd like. So, we'll certainly stay on it. Um, you know, the other thought is, do we move forward with this as an additional condition on the order conditions, but honestly, I don't want to purchase

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property at this point until this is resolved. So, >> that seems wise. I don't know if the board needs to see this plan, but basically it's >> Yeah, we have I can pull it up if you really want to. >> No, I mean it's just basically unfortunately it's it's this corner of

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lot 4 >> that he's asking about. There really is no impact to it, but you know that's his job to >> Yeah, it's it's temporary, >> right? Confirm that. So, um hopefully we can get this moving a little bit faster.

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>> Okay. And did Goddard or anybody say say anything definitively on the barb wire >> that can go? >> Yeah, they Yeah, they said that that Goddard did mention that that should probably come out. Um, so when I did draft the the special location did put that in there. Yes.

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>> Um, but also the condition of anything that goes on, you know, per natural heritage, but we are keeping it open. So, who knows? >> We take the old barb wire out and the natural heritage could still require a fence from what was in there before, but that could have been for a different reason. And so we're just >> the farm,

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>> we're waiting to see what happens. >> And once we do the construction and install that drain line, we'll replicate that area and >> provide a uh vegetate a landscape plan of what we'll plant there. So get that buttoned up. >> Okay.

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>> All right. >> So we will see your son in two weeks and we wish you the best with >> Thank you. Shoulders are never fun. >> Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I have my knee in the fall, so it's like those joints. >> I know. >> In us in us young sprites.

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>> Yeah. >> Thanks. Have a good night. Thank you. Good to see you. >> Um, thank you. Take care. You're welcome. >> So, we'll have a What's our next meeting date? >> May 14th. >> May 14th. So, it's 3 weeks. So, motion to continue the public

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hearing for Sawyer May LLC to Thursday, May 14th. >> So, moved. >> Second. >> All in favor? I I >> chair votes I opposed. >> May 14th. >> May 14th. >> Yes.

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>> Um okay. >> I don't have that. >> Next on the agenda is the continued public hearing for D file number 100-0501, New England Power Company transmission line maintenance and upgrades.

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>> Howdy. and state your name for our records publicly. >> Uh my name is Allison Milleman. I'm with BSC Group and I'm here on behalf on the applicant New England Power Company. >> Thank you. So what is the what what where are we at with this application now?

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>> Um so we received the D file number um which was just read off um and received a comment um from the central regional office um which I provided a response to. Uh the comet was a around a stormwater swale that was identified in

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the field. Um it didn't uh necessarily have any charact like the hydric soil or vegetation characteristics >> but um on the notice of intent maps we did afford it the 100 foot buffer zone as a conservative measure >> and the question from the DP was you

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know whether there are performance standards associated with that 100 foot buffer. Um and so I relate relate to uh that you know the work is all temporary and in within the foot buffer. So it's temporary construction matting and overhead work. >> Yeah.

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>> Okay. So um was there anything coming from Natural Heritage? >> Yes. On April 13th and I apologize I didn't forward it on to you guys. We did get a letter back from um uh Fish and Wildlife stating that there was no um

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adverse impact effect um for the project. So there's no conditions on there. >> Okay. And is this the one you prepared the draft? >> I I did I did quickly I did the order of conditions. I started

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the draft um special conditions. I didn't finish them, but I was using the template from the previous transmission line on the other side of town. >> Um cuz we just did one like a year ago. Um >> so I was just going to use those special conditions. The one question I had that

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I I don't think was in the narrative was just do you have the the square footage um of the this matting that's going to be put down. Do you have an approximate idea of how much matting is going to be put down? >> I Well, not off the top of my head, but it is in the narrative. >> Is it in the narrative? Okay. I I very

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briefly read. Okay. If it's in the narrative, that's fine. Um, >> isn't that matting also something that you put down in one area and then take up when you move to a new area and reuse? >> Yes. It depends on the It depends on the >> the longevity of the proposed work in

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the spot. Sometimes they'll >> repurpose, move things around. >> All right. So, so the previous one that we did that there was more or less the standard special conditions on there. There wasn't anything additional. The only additional one that we had put on

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that I put on there before for the other transmission line was that we requested that the matting not be left on site through a growing season. >> Okay. >> So, it's not left through the winter and then in the spring whether it's just >> Okay. >> If if that's at all possible. I don't not sure how your construction work. I

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got my way here. I'm delivering an escalator. >> Yeah. We do have actually time of year restrictions that need to be adhered to. So the matting has to go in at a certain time. >> Yeah. We say it have to be done during like a like a soggy wet time where it's ste for Natural Heritage. We're going to have to year restrictions. So the

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batting has to go down to a certain time >> and then they can't put it down again >> outside of that certain time. >> Okay. >> So I'm not sure that I'm not sure. >> Okay. That's fine. I don't not sure I said this one of those ones that I rather bring it to you to make sure it's something that's feasible before I >> write it in there and make sure that

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it's something you can't adhere to. So >> So once it goes down during that period, it can't go up until you're done or >> Yeah. >> Right. Got it. >> Because of the risk of the >> turtle. >> Turtles. Yeah. >> Which makes sense. >> Okay.

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Um any other issues for you, Heather? >> Nope. >> Okay. Comments from commissioners. John? >> Nope. I'm good to go. >> Jen, George, Mark, I have none. So, I think

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we're at the stage where we're ready to vote to Are we ready to vote to issue the order of conditions and sign it? >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Yes. And I I said I have the draft of the special conditions. It's the same ones. I'll just make sure that that

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because I I when I read read through it earlier I didn't think it was it would see it was in there. So I'm just going to verify that the matting condition is not in the old one. Make sure it's not in this new one and the same in the last one. >> And any further concerns from you Allison. >> Okay. So George, would you like to make

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the motion? um move to uh issue and sign the order conditions for DP file 100-0501. Motion has been moved. Mark Phillips has abstained himself on this particular application.

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>> Second >> seconded by John Schmalenberger. All in favor? >> I chair votes I opposed. None. So matter passes four to four to zero unanimously.

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So >> you didn't have to come a long way for this 5 minutes, did you? >> It's about an hour and a half for me. >> Oh my goodness. >> So would you like to >> It's a nice drive. >> It's a nice day. >> It was a nice It's a nice day, too. So

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like, you know, I know. Would you like to share your life story or anything? >> Oh, I'm sure that would just bore the heck out of you all. >> Thank you though for the offer. >> Okay. So, nothing else. You'll So, we're all set. >> Get the order from Heather.

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>> All right. >> We have a motion to close the public hearing. >> So, we have a motion to close the public hearing. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I chair votes eye. Four to zero. We're

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done. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Alison. >> Thanks for coming. >> Okay. Have a nice drive back. >> Thanks. >> Watch out for turtles. >> I always do deer. >> Always >> and deers and frog. And that time at that time, the deer are out. >> Yeah.

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>> Okay. Next on our agenda are office and number updates. >> I will um hold off on mine and let um Mr. Disc do his public input um if we could. >> Okay. So, we will do public input from

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Ken Disc. Are you here as a member of the public or a member of the planning? >> I'm here as a member of the senior center building committee. >> Okay. And I'm hoping I'm not overreaching, but um it dawned on me today that we perhaps should have reached out a little sooner to

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conservation regarding the fact that we have two articles on the town meeting on Monday night that have indirect but a connection to you guys. Um, and I thought it made sense to come tonight. And as I said, maybe we should have been

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around agenda in the past, but the long and the short of it is that we ultimately will be coming back to you and maybe we can chat about a little tonight regarding the um endangered species act, the mass endangered species act. So, just for background, typically

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this has been done by Dan Vance Gelook. He's been pretty much done doing the permitting through the state. The two permits we need from the state. Uh the endangered species act and the environmental policy act. He's been heading that piece of the the project up. He's on vacation. We'll be back till

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Friday. Katie's on vacation. So I said maybe I should just come tonight and we can as a courtesy, you know, take a couple of questions if it comes up on what's going on. So the long and the short of it is that the easement there's two things

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that they're going to talk about on the town meeting warrant and one of them is they're both out of your jurisdiction to the best of my knowledge. They're out of your jurisdiction but I just think it's a good sensible thing to talk about for as a board and whatnot. So what ended up

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happening I wish we had the GIS but it doesn't really matter. >> I can pull it up if you want me to. if you can pull it up for just a second. But what ended up happening is we developed a lot and I can show you this if you want to just pass this around to take one. And we developed a lot that's

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basically in the corner of the DPW land just out of the the area of jurisdictional uh wetlands and also the flood plane that's been you know recently updated. So we're not in those areas. Okay. And it's tremendous soil.

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So it looks like it's going to be an opportunity to have nice soil, but we are within two required. We're in an ACEC. We're in the uh you know the the requirement of the endangered species act because of evidence that on mapping

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shows two uh particular endangered species. One is of course what we're all familiar with the landing turtle. The second although it's mapped is the uh an endangered it's a uh blazing star plant. As it turned out, we had you know a lot

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of work done on this in in advance with glided interesting enough is also working for us who was working for Gatalo and through a survey with U natural heritage and the plant is not there. So we found no evidence of the plant. So that went away as part of our

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requirement. So the requirement is strictly the landing turtle. >> Mhm. Um so we DM the MH Galick is well into the process with them and in the process of doing that it becomes as you're probably familiar with a 2:1 requirement. So we have about 3 plus

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acres of land as a result of that we need to set aside 6 to 7 acres of conservation land uh to offset the take which is going to be. So we tried like crazy not to have a take. We had a lot of meetings. I was in a couple but not

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all of them. And it turns out that it it's going to require a tape. And Dan has that documentation. So if you look at the site, you can see what I handed out and I highlighted on that. We're in that upper right hand corner just below the word Devon is where the projects are

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going to be built right there. Okay. So this is 76 plus acres of DPW property. We're on a small piece of that corner on Bishop Road. As a result of that, we need to work with conservation for the take. So we had, you know, I'm sure Heather is very familiar with what's

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going on, but I'm doing this basically as just a courtesy, even though it might be a little premature. So as a result of that, the the land of the proposed take and I'll show it to you here. You can take this piece is

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go my finger show you just pass this around if you want. So before I do that, I have to I want to go back to the utilities. Okay. So what happened with this is there's a utility line right here that goes through this site or maybe out here where the dotted

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line is. After a year of work, National Grid and a lot of engineering and health on their part, we're going to be bringing a new utility line from the existing transmission line down this hill to the site. So that's the closest angle to get to the to the building is

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from here to there. >> When that happened, that also increased the amount of acreage in the tape by a fraction. So, we're not sure if it's going to be about seven acres. The plan I just gave you, I think there's an oldest I think I might have showed it at five or something five or six acres,

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something like that. So, that also was involved with the endangered species act. They determined that it's all going to be a narrow strip, but still resulted in probably another acre of land required to be given away in the tape.

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So the land we're proposing to give the other way to the tapian where we need your cooperation and while we have official meetings is in this corner that backs right up to the oxport. So this is all wooded on that side and there's there's a piece of wet land there. Probably goes from right around here

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right along that section to that side as demonstrated in the drawing I just gave you this one here. >> Okay. >> Okay. So excuse me. >> Yeah. >> The reason I'm bringing this up tonight is because the two articles talk about the easement number one. So I want to just clue you in where that easement is.

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It's in the town will do the easement. National Grid does the drawings. It's their drawing. It's their easement. It's their language and and the town has reviewed it and we've signed a contract with them. So there'll be a narrow strip like this comes down and that is the easement they'll be talking about Monday

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night. Now Dan may do this presentation Monday night, but I just figured why the heck you don't come here tonight. Maybe >> if you had any questions before you go. >> Can you also just for anybody listening to our meeting just explain what it is with the cake?

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>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Just >> so I'm not the expert. Look at how smile. So the point of the of when you go to the mass endangered species act they create they've made a determination that that is definitely an area that has

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an impact because there is evidence of either nesting or movement of some sort that you find in Go ahead. >> I just I just want to make one clear if anyone is watching because we just had Joe Catal here from natural heritage. We when what Kenneth discuss is natural heritage is

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the same thing. >> Yeah. So just so no one's confused that they're watching the requirements mass wildlife/natural heritage and endangered species program natural heritage endangered species program >> and a take is not it's you're taking

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away habitat where the turtles are seen but you're not taking turtles >> correct in their opinion it's habitat it's a pl it's a mapped habitat and it's been determined by environmental survey >> that there's evidence of turtle activity >> okay

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>> so That's the given. So as a result of that, the requirement is that you cannot give them the same amount of land. You have to give them twice as much land for conservation. >> Same if you fill a wetland, you have to replicate it on a two to one. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> So we're hoping very strongly that this

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is acceptable to our conservation commission, although that should come up in a hearing or a meeting, not tonight. and that the town of a conservation commission would in fact be the recipient of the conservation of the land >> rather than going outside to a trust or someone else. It's fascinating that it's

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always still right within the town of air and it's right there. So, we don't have to do any kind of special u requirements as far as that we already own it. >> Mhm. >> And when you're recreating a 2:1 habitat, what are you changing on the existing conditions?

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>> Well, that is going to be over my pay grade right now. Okay, cuz Dan has got that document. >> Yeah, they typically through the natural heritage process, they might ask for a turtle nesting area or anything like that put on there like we >> seen when we did the miso permits um >> you know through uh Straten Hill, right?

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>> And that project. So those will out of the permit will they might put separate conditions on there to ask for a nesting area to be installed. Okay. >> Uh and I'm sure that's something that might be coming in in the future. I think the first aspect of it is just conveying the land and getting that approval and then yeah further down the

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road maybe those conditions as far as obviously work when work can be constructed any sort of replication whether it's a nesting area or anything like that would be >> thank you welcome >> so just to follow up on that so they have these are us plans that are

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submitted to the planning board site plan review have also gone to them >> so they have looked at the fact that we have retention systems and they've looked at they've looked at the location of everything on the site. The final comments have not been received from them and in regards to that, but the

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architect and the engineer put to you know they know they need slope curve you know that kind of typical Cape Codburn >> and the sketch that Dan Ranch Gel is working on is with them. So they've got the sketch of where this land is going to be and whatnot. So that's kind of

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where that's at. Um, so he's he's kept pretty much running that whole process and he just gives us comes back to the meeting and reports. That's kind of where we're at on that. Um, so that's the reason I came was just to kind of give you a little review. Hopefully this

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did something. So that was the idea. >> Okay. Are there any questions for Mr. Disc from commission members? Nope. So I skimmed over the war in article and I thought it was just to allow the

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>> to elect me to uh engage in a conservation restriction, >> right? >> U >> that's the language. >> Yeah. I'm not sure if you're going to convey to us that's the same thing.

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>> Give me that again. though if you're going to convey it to this commission. >> Yeah. >> That's not the same as a conservation restriction. >> Well, I think um typically conservation restrictions don't go to town meeting for approval, but because this is >> they they don't I think yeah, we're

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we're and I had the same question that George had because I saw that selectman and I'm like >> so if we're holding a if there's a conservation restriction and the town owns the land, conservation commission cannot hold the restriction. same entity. So bricks are the town, >> right?

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>> So the way the Warren article reads, it reads that the select board, the way I read it says the select board's going to hold the land. But what you're saying is the conservation commission is going to hold the land. I >> So I that then that's my question. I go, how can the town vote for the select board to take it if then the conservation commission's going to have

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it? Because then I think it has to go back to town meeting to to change that. So, I don't know if you I mean I can bring that that question up to Robert before you know obviously town meeting and maybe you know Dan can or whoever presents the article can can clarify that cuz that was the one question that

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I had too and I think if if George has it there'll be other members of the town that know about these things that will have similar questions because that was one that I had and and just in more of a legal question because if it says that the select board that the town votes then then the select board has to own it

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unless it goes back to town meeting to change Isn't the I thought the language was just let the select one negotiate and something wrong. I think >> it could be that and it's not solidified who owns it. >> But I thought if the town owns the land

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that the holder of the CR has to be an independent independent entity. Correct. >> That would not be the town. >> Correct. It cannot be the town or the commission. >> Which is why similar to Pine, we're having um North County do the CR because we're the holders of the land. >> Okay. >> We own the land. >> Yeah. So I'm not qualified to get into

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the depth of that conversation, but the way I understood it was the article was written fairly open to try to >> okay >> let the select board >> select what do the negotiations and stuff like that and it was approved by town council. So town council >> and I'm sure they would know. So that that makes more sense. Thank you for

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clarifying that. >> So that's kind of what it is >> because the select board would be the ones to negotiate it and and push it over. And I and I just figure ultimately it's coming back here to be talked about, >> you know, with this commission >> because

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more jurisdiction, well, you know, to you guys, but >> All right. Any other questions from anybody? >> All right. Thank you, Ken. >> Thank you, Ken. >> See you, Anan.

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>> And see you Monday night at town meeting. >> I just took a chance to what happened. So, excellent. >> Okay. Now, um Well, that was public input. >> Well, maybe are we going to continue with public? >> That's what I was just thinking. That

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was public input from Ken. Rachel, do you have any public? >> I don't know if the board members have any updates. I didn't want to >> You can You can go ahead. That's fine. >> Yeah. kind of kind of general. >> Yeah. I I wanted Yeah, I just figured

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>> um Rachel Kazera 30 Bratton Harvard Road. Um I just had a a question with regard to the con Oh, sorry. Thank you so much, Madam Chair and the Conservation Commission. Um I just had a >> I don't I'm still fighting my words, I

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suppose, how to properly feed into this, so I apologize. Um I just had a question with regard to the like conservation land and um just keeping the integrity of you know the land being for nature. Um I

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just have seen recently that um you know individuals are allowed to kind of decide that conservation land isn't conservation land anymore. So, I didn't know if the town of Air had any dedicated legislation to protect what we

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have. Um, it seems like the uh the previously public input um project um is kind of chipping away at um land reserved for animals and nature um and so an endangered species. And so, um,

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just with the trend, um, that I've seen going to meetings, um, driving around town, uh, it just seems that, you know, this may become a problem in the future. Um, and I know specifically,

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I want to say with this, is it the Save Act that was just passed? Um, I just don't know if um there's uh modifications to the to the jurisdiction of conservation

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agencies. Um I didn't know if that was a portion that um um was in there. So I just I just felt like this might be an issue to come down the line um just with regard to okay, so we're giving you know this land for this particular project.

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you know what if down the line somebody wants to make a basketball court and they say, "Oh, well, this is better for the town because more people will use it." It's just kind of like it just seems that we need um just something to kind of lock in what we have. Um and so

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I just didn't know if there was anything that covers that um or if that's out of your jurisdiction. Um so juris Oh, >> sorry, just a quick clarifying question to make sure I get it right in the notes. Are you saying that you're seeing land that was set aside officially as a conservation restricted restriction

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being used for something else? >> I would have no idea. You know, unless there was a big sign that said conservation area, you know, I I would have no idea. I just mean that land in general >> that was kind of emptier or like wild is now you know something that's being built up which I understand because

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things change and um you know everything like that but it's just you know folks move to town you know for specific reasons so it's >> there is a lot of land with a lot of trees around we don't have automatic jurisdiction over all of it

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>> so the state gives us you know it's it we're very bound by the bound um buffer zones etc to wetlands and rivers and streams. Um but the area where we do have a little more input would be when legal documents for establishing

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conservation restrictions come into play. Right. And then whether it's jurisdictional under the wetland protection act or is not as relevant. It's just that it's a CR land that by the legal terms of the conservation

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restriction cannot be suddenly turned into a basketball court >> unless it was written into the conservation restriction. >> Right. Unless that use was >> possibly >> which I have not seen one >> not in this town but they have done.

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Yeah. >> So um so we do have limits. >> Okay. Um unfortunately I mean I like protect all the trees. Yes. >> But but I think the other thing to think about too is

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>> that's some of the the idea behind the open space residential development is that >> while we're allowing development, we're trying to restrict the amount that they're developing to hopefully limit the impact as you're you're identifying. And that's >> that's about as good as we can do it

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because it truly is somewhat out of our jurisdiction. Oh, I appreciate that. Yeah. >> What I mentioned at another meeting and I'd like to at some point maybe we could have a conservation commission visit to the planning board meeting to discuss

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maybe uh strengthening how open space in an o in an open space residential development how that is defined. I know we and calculated because I didn't know we've had some strong

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differences of >> Yeah. So I think that would be something we could we could do jointly with the planning board. Um we don't have jurisdiction as I understand it to propose a bylaw amendment ourselves but it would be certainly something to

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bolster that definition. >> I myself and the town planner will be working on that. >> Yeah. and then uh get the commission involved with the planning board. So, Mr. Dkin, do you have a comment? >> You and I talked about this in the past. I think it is definitely a deficiency in

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>> definitions, >> right? >> And expectations as a result. >> If you go on the state website for the model for OSIDS, there is a definition there of open space. Well, the the weakest in the definition is the definition of open space is what

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I'm getting at. >> Yeah. So we can disagree on what the real open space is and its value. We went through this before, >> right? >> It's a great point that it's not resolved. It it needs we need a tighter description of what actual open space is.

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>> And that's what I >> whether you can take down trees on open space and still call it open space for instance as an example. >> Maybe you can't, maybe you can't >> or put in a drainage easement right through. >> Right. So that's something that we

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should be working towards. >> Well, we know we know what this is, but >> my >> that there's there's a weakness in the definition. >> Yeah. >> Not everywhere, but not me. Not every town, not every city, not >> I I have yet to find a ask ask a conservation agent or a state agency for

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a definition of open space. None of them have one that I have asked. >> Right. >> So >> So the state model that you see is a model, but yet no one uses the definition. Yeah, exactly. So, it is it is an issue created. >> My hope would be maybe that you and Danny could work on this and then we

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could have a meeting of the two boards prior to fall town meeting. >> Yes, that would be the ultimate goal. Um both both boards are getting um busy with applications right now, but hopefully that'll be one of the goals that we will be working on. Um I said we

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I'm working on redoing our eggs. I'm done with those. them up. You guys can tweak them from there before we go to public hearing. Um, from there I was going to go on to the OSRD rates and I got to help with the storm water ones as well. You don't need sleep.

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I get to tell my kids I write was so you know. >> All right. Um, one other question that um, >> yes, >> uh, Rachel raised. What is the status of the save act? So is that the environmental act like bill >> where they were making remember we discussed they were making changes that

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were both they were doing two things at once and >> so that was an environmental bill that passed this was it I don't know I I forgive me I forget I know federal level one is goes to the Senate then it goes to Congress I get them few flipped and I do the same thing in the state level it

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passed one house and it still is to go to the committee and go through the second um that environmental bill is the one with that we had talked about with all the funding along with some of the environmental changes. I know I'm not 100% sure what the changes included

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because all of a sudden you heard the statewide ban on plastic bags that got thrown in there I think during committee. Um the redundant side um part that got thrown in that's in there but I think it's I don't think it's exactly how it was worded that got tweaked I think when it was in committee. So, I'd

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have to verify and read the whole thing, but those things were like 200 pages to figure out what is is in there or not as far as any changes to our uh conservation commission's jurisdiction. And that was all only for specific projects. It was for housing. >> Yeah.

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>> Choice and >> as conservation commissions and stuff, we'd all had asked for clarification on what um the housing requirements would be. So I I I'd have to review and see what was in there, but it was specifically for certain housing projects.

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>> Didn't they call it priority housing? >> Priority housing. Yes. For priority housing. Yes. >> They didn't define what priority housing meant. And it basically stated that it was going to um not follow any local bylaws or the

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protection act, which the question was raised, well, we're a home rule state. How can the state then do that? So I don't know what happened when it was in committee before it went to to pass that and it said it still needs to pass the second part. So it could still get changed from there. So I haven't seen it to see what changes had done or I

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haven't heard anything from any of the from MSNCP at all. >> So it hasn't passed yet. >> Okay. >> One hurdle. It hasn't passed the other one yet. Um but again like I said there've already been modifications too from what I know cuz I said that I didn't even know the pl that plastic bag

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ban got thrown in I think at some point. So from somewhere so uh statewide ban. So I don't >> I don't know what part it may have changed as far as that priority housing section of it. >> Okay. Yeah. No, that part was a bit concerning when I was reading. >> Yes, we were all very concerned. >> I know.

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>> And it was more or less define like that we're fine with housing that we we understand that but define what it means. What is priority housing mean? Because anybody could come and say well that's priority >> I mean essentially you know. So I I think that was is getting a define on that and then still allow cities and towns to do their local bylaws to

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whatever extent. >> Yeah. >> And oversee it. >> So we'll have to see what it what modifications are made on it. >> Great. Thank you so much. And um I just had one other question. Um and I just I feel a little bit um not I feel

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but I suppose it's true. I feel a little bit thrown off by um taking the like conservation land for the senior center. Um I feel like I didn't Oh, pardon me. I apologize. The endangered species areas.

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Um and just kind of just in nature in general. I know that it was originally supposed to be in Preon Park and that was a big deal, but I just I I remember asking the the woman who's in charge of the senior center currently. >> Um, and asking her to her face in

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person, you know, oh, are you guys going to be clearing any trees and she was very vague about it and didn't say like anything to me, but I would have wanted to know about this before, you know, the meeting itself. So, I just didn't know. I don't know if there was, you know, I

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guess I could go to the senior center meetings. I just >> wish that it was kind of more public in the sense of just more people knew about it so they could talk about it and express how they feel just >> cuz I know a lot of folks have moved here because they love the way air is

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and obviously it's changing. But um I just wanted to make that comment just cuz I was a little bit taken back. But anyhoo um I appreciate your time. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. All right, updates. Okay. Um, so obviously we own

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the town meetings on Monday. We will have the the pond treatment article on there. Um, fully expect the the same questions we get every year for that, but we'll see. Um, yesterday was the Earth Day event in the Chile Raw rather on McFersonson Road.

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>> I wanted to go and I completely forgot about >> No, it's okay. I I it was from 2 to 6. I left about 5:15 cuz they couldn't feel my hands anymore. Uh but we did have quite a few people from Devon show up. There was um some several people from Air um did have some good conversations

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and shared some um the materials that we have. I did make a fly list at some of the books that we do have on our shelf. Mhm. >> I'm going to make it a little more detailed and share that with the library so they can um hopefully we can get some people to borrow some of our lovely um planting and

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nature-based um non-fiction and other books that we have in our in my office. Um Saturday is the townwide cleanup. Uh Sandy Pond Beach 8:30 um help clean up the town. Um we're going to try this year um to have

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everyone have two bags, one for recycling cycle materials and one for trash if we can. Um again it's I think you wait cuz a woman from Mass Recycle was at the thing yesterday and she

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brought that up to Mr. Tillison um and he was fine with you know telling people they it's purely if they want I mean so we'll try to do that. I told him I have he gave me a whole roll of air recycle stickers. I go we could just throw that on the recycle bag and just do it that way. Make it easier for people to

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realize what they're doing. So that's Saturday. Hopefully everybody comes out get clean up some of the trash on the side of the road. Um I will be there this year. Uh and it's not going to snow. So that's that's really good. It's not going to rain either. >> It's not going to rain. Um it's going to

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be fairly nice. Um for the next meeting, we do have obviously continue for um Orion Park Drive and we have four new applications. Two from the DPW for RDAs for drainage improvements

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um one on Grten Harvard Road um and one on BL Street near Peron Park. And we have a NOI for 135 Oakidge Drive for an addition. And the other one is an a request for an amended order of

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conditions from um National Grid for the substation on Bishop Road. Um after they cleaned out the um covert and the head wall, they have had an influx of water um that um I don't that

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they realize they may need to expand um the existing um open water area. Um, so they'll be coming in for an amendment for that request. Um, >> and with the

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Bishop Road drainage improvements um going to be starting this um spring into early summer to then fix the the flooding concerns we have on on Bishop Road to then flow out into that same wetland area. It would probably be >> Sorry, is that one of the RDAs or is

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that just another item? that was a previously approved um ADA um back in this earlier spring winter. Um so hopefully so they'll be back to discuss that. Um I didn't feel comfortable doing as a site change um because of the extent of the work within

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the actual wetland itself. So that'll be uh next meeting. Um given that we will have five items on the agenda, we do still have the question of if and when we want to review and do the public hearing for the updated regulations.

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>> Um the updated regulations that I had sent out. Um I don't know if you wanted to look at possibly doing the public hearing for those on the second meeting in May or holding off until June. >> Do that. I have a couple things I I mean there a couple areas I'd love to clarify.

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>> Okay, good. Yeah. If you want to just if we want to have a discussion on that. >> Yeah, >> we can do that. Do you want to Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I'll give you my comments tonight and then see what other people >> Yeah. That's I It was just one of I had worked on them, worked on them, worked

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on them, and I'm like, I have other things that I'm like, I can't. >> Yeah, >> I added enough. I added my my tree um item in there, the mitigate the wetland mitigation section in there, the ink kind in kind. actually I did try to delete a couple of the ink kind in there. The the request for native

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plantings I did add as discussed the last meeting um under the plan requirements and we'll start throwing in the orders of conditions as well that we're trying to eliminate the um eros uh silk fence for erosion controls and just use silk socks

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>> filled with um biodegraded materials um if possible. So we'll hopefully get that >> changed on our plans to have that materials >> might Yeah. So we would be banning that but then I was thinking okay so for air solar 2 we required orange construction

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fencing in certain areas. >> Yeah. know that that would be something >> that would be that's something separate and and when I put the the in the rags in there it was >> if possible it wasn't like we we we don't want the erod the soil fence at some points it might be necessary given the slope of whatever that's out there

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but we wanted geared more towards the um erosion the the soil socks the um not star waddles but more of the the erosion socks that have that are filled with mulch or other biodegradable materials and not and get away from anything that has plastic in it because those are usually Yeah. And maybe we can refine

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things so that when we issue that the certificate of compliance isn't issued until silk fencing is removed. But it's a sort of so we could try to get it removed for the end at the end of projects. >> Mhm. >> But what's our leverage? Cuz I know

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>> Yeah. The issue with that and that's yeah that's that's the that's the big concern with it is all of our orders are hence usually or >> recorded onto a deed but a property can change hands sometimes without that ever being a trigger and come and do it to

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us. So >> and we won't have one that comes until you know 10 years later. Um so it's one of those tricky things. It it was put on there so they will get closed but it doesn't always stick. >> And then there the other thing of timing. It's like we usually specify you can't take away the silt fencing until

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you've received a certificate of compliance. >> Yeah. >> But that then takes away our leverage to say you can't get a certificate of compliance until you've removed the silt fencing. >> Yeah. And then you have your you have your you have your two years of of a growing period and and stuff like that. >> Yeah. So

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>> yeah, it's a it's a tricky dance. It's a try to just try to remove >> the idea of having silk fence as a whole. >> Yeah. And maybe if where where it's necessary, maybe we could have our agent give a provisional approval >> to remove it

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>> prior to the issuance of >> which which I which I have done for air solar field. We we did that to get it removed when needed to get the water >> flow where it needed to the stream crossings. So yes, >> because you have the wording in the in order conditions that the soest must be

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maintained. Mhm. >> I think adding the wording in there, it should be maintained so that it will make it >> easy to remove later on to clarify that that's the intent. >> Yeah. >> Instead of just allowing it to be buried and then you know, well, we maintained by putting in a whole another sediment.

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It's like, >> no, we want the original out. >> Yeah. And that's and that's the big trick when you when I go through and do the inspections like we did for the VA for their parking area, inspected the soap fence, but they installed it in the late fall, early winter. And I'm like, well, technically it's only good for a

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construction season, so it needs to be reinspected before you start work. So, I had to go back out and reinspect it. And it was basically good. Some of it fell over, but it was it was fine. Um, but that's the thing is, right? So, we try to remind these um contractors that if they start a project in the late summer,

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whatever, and it's not completed through the winter to have the silk fence be inspected again um and the barrier walked by myself or or somebody to send a report in to make sure that everything is in in good stands. And it does need to be removed. And unfortunately, if you're doing work in the middle of winter, it can't it can't cuz it's

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frozen in the ground. >> True. >> Cuz it's buried in and then you have to dig. Yeah. >> It's a That's another reason why it'd be great if we didn't even have erosion soap fans cuz the silk socks just sit on top and stick to the either side. >> Yeah. >> There you go. >> So you don't have to worry about it.

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>> Right. Right. >> Would straw bales be an alternative? the we use straw waddles now instead of hay bales because the the risk of hay bales is they include invasives that then recede. Um the reason most towns move to straw was because oh straw doesn't

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recede. Well that's not necessarily true because straw is planted every year. It's it's tilled under and then replanted every year. So the risk of invasives is lower but there still can be in there. >> Um so the it so it is it's the risk is

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lower but it's not 100%. Um, and it's not always wrapped in a non-plastic um, casing sometime because, and I just know this from being married to a farmer, um, like hay bales, you have plastic twine and you have, uh, rope twine. Well, mice

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will eat the rope twine, so that's why they use plastic. So, I think the same thing would happen with the that the silk with the straw waddles is the encasing that's in there. Anything that's not a plastic or a bi would either biode degrade or an animal when you threw it which then would just bring straw everywhere.

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>> Mhm. >> Thank you. >> All right. Any other updates? >> Any other updates? Um >> anything on Sandy Pond 71 Sandy Pond? Did they >> The next meeting for that is a Monday

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after town meeting. >> So next So a week from Monday. Yes, that was what we scheduled whether because it was I think the thought was to go to the select board the following week. So we had a tentative meeting for May 4th. >> Okay. And

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>> there's some more to come for that. >> Okay. So that would be so both of those meetings would happen before our next meeting. But >> John, you able to make the May 4th? >> Yes. I'll be I'll be there.

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>> Yeah. >> Yeah. at home with my kids ducking so they don't end up on camera while I make dinner. >> And then West Main Street Bridge, >> West Main Street Bridge has started. The erosion controls were installed. I got pictures of everything that was done.

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Um, I do need to reach out to um the DPW because I do want to go out and see how they're progressing so far and to see if they're getting weekly reports on work that's being done or how we can get that cuz I was positive that I think once full construction started they were going to be doing some sort of weekly

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reports in. So, I just got to verify that. >> Okay. And then yeah, so they that project was starting and then the Bishop Road um utilities were getting put in the water sewer and then um >> Yeah. Yeah. Water and sewer. Yeah.

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>> Water and communications, not sewer. Water and communications were going up Bishop. So, when I was out for um Earth Day, you could see the pipe had been delivered, but they hadn't started the construction because the lovely contractor the town has for that project. Wasn't going to do work on

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Monday cuz the town's closed. And I think because of the Earth Day event yesterday, they just decided to hold off. So, the the piping is there. So, they'll probably start work within the next couple days on that one. So, it'll be tricky getting around town. That project will last through the summer,

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through the beginning of June, mid June. But it won't close one. It won't close a whole lane on uh Bishop McFerson Road, Bishop Road. It'll only use the shoulder >> shoulder. And um and West Main Street will that'll be down to one. >> That'll eventually be down to one lane. It hasn't I'm sure they'll they'll

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announce that way in plenty of time before that happens. >> Well, that's Massachusetts. You drive there's sometimes you have to drive around all sorts of places to get >> it's it's spring and summer in New England. It's just it's construction season until the snow flies. May 1st is

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coming up. Um that's when we have the boards put back in Bulchdam. >> They had they because Dan was on vacation. A gentleman from the DPW reached out to me and asked about that and I said, "Oh yeah, you just I just get told they do that." So whatever it is you do, yes, please do that.

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>> Sorry. >> So in the fall we take out the two boards from Bulch Pond dam >> and then in the spring >> we put them back. >> Put them back. usually try to do it before we have any heavy rains. >> So, they they called me last week to do

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that. So, I think they were going to do that. And the point of that is you draw down the winter >> to get the whatever hopefully kill whatever weeds in the corn pond. It's also the East Main Street. >> East Main Street. Yeah. >> Uh what is it called? East Main Street Dam.

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>> Bridge. I don't know. There's a dam there. >> Yeah. Yes. Thank you. Thanks. >> Yes. >> Okay. Any Oh, can I back up for public? >> Yes, we have a comment from Mr. Diskin again. >> I haven't brought this up in a long

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time. I almost forgot about it and I hope I don't embarrass Heather. Anybody know what the result of the st the status is of the conservation restriction for air solar? >> I sure do. Um so the conservation restriction has been drafted has been uh

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reviewed by our town council, reviewed by um the state. I also sent it over to North County Land Trust since they're the ones that are going to be overseeing our conservation restrictions to make sure they didn't have anything. That is

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all fine. Um, I am still waiting for them to do their baseline report >> and I'm hesitant to have them get for us to get this the CR ready to sign until I know when the baseline will be done. I

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haven't heard when the baseline will be done. I don't >> When you say they, who's who's they talking about? >> Um, so I hear from uh Adam Costa, the attorney for the project. >> So, he's going to do it. Get Adam out there. that. >> No, no, he's not going to do the C. No, but that's who I I been emailing back

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and forth. And again, when I asked the question, okay, >> about the baseline, I don't get an answer. >> So, this was a few weeks. This is probably about a month or so ago, the last time we had um these exchanges about the CR. So, the state's just awaiting us for me to get them a a clean

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version of the the CR or um attorney cost a a clean version get them a clean version of the the CR so it can be ready for signature. I'm awaiting for when we're going to have the the baseline done because as far as I know, the signage hasn't been put up.

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>> Okay. >> And I do not feel comfortable letting the town and the the town sign a CR with without knowing that the baseline's been completed yet. >> So, the signs we're talking about similar to the signs I saw this morning, >> correct? Y >> the little circles. Yep.

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>> My god, that's miles around that place. >> Yeah. Mhm. Um, so in my it it really hasn't anything to do with me as in a blood or a closer bladder. It's it's more my I'll say it's more my concern that the town get credit for the land. >> Yeah.

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>> The open space that's really behind the whole discussion >> and and it's fascinating that the autobond report that was put out in 2020 I believe is now ready to be done again like the 2025 or 2026 version. 2020

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version is the one that talked about the dialogues that have been changed in air to add to open space and it was very progressive. >> So to see that open space added in the next report would be a big deal. >> Yeah, we're we're slowly getting all of our CRS um completed and on the on the

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record to get to up those numbers. Um that's just one of those ones. It's the same thing with with Panther Place once that one comes online too. And that's another one I think I'm waiting to hear from their attorney to be like, "Oh, we get same thing. I need I need that baseline done >> into place." >> Yeah. Um

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>> cuz you mass mapper shows that being dead. >> Well, CR hasn't been signed. So, I mean, you can say it there, but it's not done. Um >> I'm wondering if in future negotiations or CRs, and that's usually done by the planning board, right? >> Mhm. That you know how you have a bond

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set aside for other things. I wonder if we could have a just minimal. >> That'll be a question we can maybe possibly add into the the regulations and change those because I think it's not in there. We people have a hard time getting that approved. >> Yeah. As motivation for like >> the issue with the with the conservation

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restrictions that you know we I've met with the planning board to go over it with it all and how it does. >> CR is fine. That's just language. The the baseline and the CR should be done almost cons because what happens is we had it a curly circle. We had the the the CR done. never had the baseline, so

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it was never monitored. You can't do the baseline until the project's complete because you need the boundary markers done, right? >> So, you need all the lots either marked out >> Yeah. >> before you can do the baseline, >> which then comes into a thing with the

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con with the planning board is when they first wrote one, it was oh, before whatever occupancy. Well, you can't. >> Yes, she remembers. before the last occupancy I think is how it was how it's written which >> I mean in instance with Panther Place >> that got approved I still I was still working for the planning board. I've

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been the conservation agent here almost 5 years now and that project is not completed. So it it's a it's a long process. So to try to figure out how to do the timing is very tricky. you can get the CR done, but then it's a matter of getting that baseline, the signage up

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and whether it needs to be in there, which is why I asked when we did um >> think of Stratton Hill to have some sort of when those houses are bought the open space to have some sort of fencing there or boundary markers because until those

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signs are put up, the baseline's done or whatever and a b like we had it over on on Shaker Mill Pond because nothing was up there until too state. They just assumed it was their property and didn't realize it. They they bought a house. They It was on their deed. They have a conservation restriction. No one reads

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it. No one's going to read that longitude to longitude. That's >> it's gibberish. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yes. >> We put language. We put language in there unless Heather just said, >> "We thought it would be plentiful if you put it into the very last occupancy permit that you had, but it still didn't

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work." >> No, it doesn't work. >> You can't really tell to someone, you know, you can't move, you can't sell a house. >> Yeah. So it it becomes one of those tricky things where we have to figure out how to do it to get it done, >> how to have it marked on each property so it's fines, people know >> because

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>> yeah, >> we and it's and some homeowners are very good about making sure they read everything, understand it all, but it's to rely on that is is tricky. So that's where I'm wondering if down the road there could be some sort of, you know, a general estimate of what a

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baseline documentation would cost to repair, >> you know, and maybe double that amount, put it into a bond. They get half back when they >> Yep. >> something to motivate. >> We paid for one for Curly Circle. I don't know how much they cost. >> Yeah. >> So maybe that's something we can work

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with you guys on too. >> Yeah. We we can look at that when we do the re we revise the regulations looking like that cuz I think >> the CR aspect of it was just kind of like you need to do one >> and it was it was >> the the formalities of it were left out. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

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>> But we're working on them. >> Okay. >> And I apologize. I didn't catch what that was about at the beginning. I was taking notes that I didn't know what you were talking about. >> The um Mass Autobon puts out a publication calls it losing ground. >> Losing ground. >> Losing ground. Um, and it goes through

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the the amount of open space each town has, what they might lose per development. And Ken's point was we have a multiple of conservation restrictions, which is permanently protected land in town that is not included into that report that we

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just want to see added to show that we do have additional open space in town. >> I just didn't. Thank you so much. I apologize. >> Yeah, they can't be added until the CR is >> the CR Yeah, the CR's recorded. Yeah, >> which >> we have multiples recorded. We're slowly

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working our way through getting, you know, the baselines in monitoring and getting some completed. So, >> we're working there. And once we get um Pine Meadow done, it'll be all added into it. >> Mhm. >> Sheds,

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>> they're coming down right >> there. Questions a week after town meeting. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Any other commission? >> I'll have an update on the sheds next meeting. >> Okay. >> So, I have an update as of yesterday.

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>> Okay. >> So, yes, we did get out there and actually did a little cleaning. >> Oh, good. >> We did from Park Street down to the fence. >> Oh, okay. >> They had it locked off, but yeah, picked up like three bags of trash. >> Oh, good. >> Um, you mentioned about the recycling stuff. >> Yeah. I thought they can't take like

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technically like dirty recycling cuz that's basically what a lot of we picked up was dirty. >> Yeah. I I don't >> and everything. So >> yeah, >> wash it off in a pond. >> I was going to take it down and clean it off and what you know grid had just you know created

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>> Yeah. Oh yeah. Well that I mean I when I went down to national and got to walk along the the edge of the power station I was just like I drive by it you can see some open water. You get down there's a lot of water down there. It's a calm there is. >> I'm like >> I'm like I didn't see you can't see it

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close to it yesterday. >> Yeah, it's um Yeah, it it's a lot. So, as much as I hate saying this and I know we we don't we we're in a drought mild drought conditions right now. We do have a week of rain coming >> when they do do the Bishop Road um storm

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water work. I I am hoping for a nice dry summer. >> Uh farm uh Farmers Almanac. I guess I saw something the other day. Their prediction for Massachusetts for May and June is drier than normal and hotter

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than normal. >> Well, it's not >> I hate drought. >> Oh, I I I I do not like it, but when we have um projects >> projects that are sensitive in sensitive areas, I I hope for the dry areas. >> Yeah. >> Um

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um Deputy Chief Bigalow was surprised to hear me say that. So, did anybody else have chance to look at the draft regulations? >> Yes. >> Do we any So, I have like little picky edits. Oh, I'm sure. >> Which I will pass you.

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>> Did it come through with >> I haven't looked since the last time, but did it come through like totally read it? >> What I do when I send it? It's red. >> So, what what you receive I don't know, but what I send is >> Okay. So, one of the things that I was

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rereading this even though we worked on the uh bylaw and regulations before >> was uh like wild wildlife habitat impact and mitigation. Um it's like >> where does this apply? Especially

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I know it says we exclude installed lawns and stuff but >> when we just >> and this isn't you this is what we had before too >> but like um >> what a lot of this applies to is we've enhanced the protection areas within

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>> the resource yeah the resource area resource area >> 0 to 50 and then 50 to 75 >> um >> one sentence and I this was what it was in in the originally but it's and we're replicating it and try as I might I

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don't understand exactly what we meant which is um yeah uh no not prohibited um oh where we talk about structures include and I think we're talking about just

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prohibited structures right that we're saying in land oh so that I'm I'm being garbled here. >> But >> we need to specify that this is on the land that's previously undisturbed, >> right? >> Or within those buffer zone areas

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>> within the buffer zone areas. >> So So with the with the new the new um buffer zone, the zero to the 50 to 75 that limits it to structures >> that would be any structure. the I think what what you I have to review it to see

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because I I tried not to touch too much of what you guys had and add in my new like I don't know if it's going to make sense but I didn't want to change too much of what you guys had wrote figured that'd be your job to go through and and or somebody else is more articulate than myself

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>> to get it to to make sense because it's a I'm looking at what I want to put in the other regs and I'm looking at ours oh god this makes me hurt >> so when I added the wildlife mitigation >> which is the account. I took it was a whole separate section like okay this is going to be a whole section I can't I'm not wrapping it into something else. So

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the okay the one phrase I found it that I think we really need to reword is what we define as undisturbed land is land determined by the commission to be of a predominantly >> okay >> natural character that's fine or land

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which was altered and I'm not sure what we meant land which was altered after May 1996 without a permit from the commission and it's like what the hell does that mean? What the heck does that mean? >> It must it must be something within the act itself that references them. I know

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storm water systems are considered um >> exempt if they're prior to a certain time and if it's before a certain time a detention basin is considered a wetland which is why we get one. >> There are things that were sort of grandfathered if it was before the act

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was passed before 1996. But if it's land that was altered after May 1996 but without a permit, how do we even >> is that is that >> how do we figure that out? >> Does that pertain to probably the

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riverfront area when we did the creative materials we had that issue with the degraded area? Is that what that's probably coming from? >> Um and we don't have to have that in there. I mean to me, >> yeah, I think we Yeah, I'll I'll look at this further too and just figure what can we

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>> I don't know what you meant by that either, but I'm like obviously it meant them meant them something to them. >> Yeah. So, you want to have a general, you know, vague but pointed definition of what undisturbed land is versus somebody doing landscaping in their yard

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that's already >> lawn and so All right. So, >> so yeah, I mean cuz I always looked at that and I thought that's just what we had in there before. So we can't blame Heather. >> All right. So I I'll look at that and see if I can >> but it's like what we mean um because if

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somebody altered land May 1997 and we're given a project in 2027 and it's like how do we even determine when that alter >> Oh GIS you can go back. >> Yeah.

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Um, >> I don't know if we'd have 1997 JS. >> Yeah, it's a satellite image. It's not the greatest, but you could see if if something was woods, if something was long. >> Yeah, you're talking specifically structures. >> Mhm. >> Which may or may not mean that it's been cleared.

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>> I didn't write those. >> Yeah, >> you can't blame her, >> but I was trying to I was trying to explain it. I didn't write it. >> No, but that >> So, this is under the definition for what's undisturbed. Yeah. And I mean that's crucial for everything that follows. >> Everything that follows.

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>> Can you read the specific sentence again? >> Undisturbed land is land determined by the commission to be of a predominantly natural character or land which was altered after May 1996 without a permit from the commission.

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That's the part it's like what does that mean >> now? I mean, we sort of know what it means, but what does it mean in terms of us doing >> when it when did you and George join the commission? Is that what date you picked?

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>> That was before us. >> Anyway, yeah. So, you look at that and I'll look at that further. And >> yeah, I would also look at um I was going to pull it up here real quick, but I I'll look at because our definitions aren't in our regulations. They're in the bylaw itself. >> Right. So, I'll have to look and see if

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there's any definition within the bylaw that states um undisturbed land >> to make sure we're not contradicting ourselves. >> Yeah. And I think, you know, I um I think when we have the section on

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waiverss, that's the first thing we do in an independent sentence beginning is just granting of waiverss is not guaranteed. >> Just underscore that. Um, and when I when I was looking at that today, uh, we were talking about

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granting a waiver for an alteration where there's no feasible alternative that provides less impact. Um, I want stress there too that that doesn't mean we'll if there's not an

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alternative, a viable alternative and we're in that no disturb area and somebody puts in a waiver request, we don't have to give it. >> Yeah, that's why you had that in the front, >> right? But that's where you as it's written right now and this wasn't your

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wording. This was ours older older wording. it just sort of like um where there's no I mean it sounds a little we just want that underscored I think that waiverss are not at all guaranteed. >> Okay. So we probably should just define how the waiver process works and how

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it's >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'll I'll double check and see how it's written in the in the planning board's um >> area because I think it specifies there how the planning board's allowed to grant waiverss and I think just having that understood how how a waiver can be granted and not granted how can be

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requested I should say. >> Yeah. Um, >> and I believe going back to that, from what I remember, again, we it goes back to the philosophy of we're not here to potentially eliminate or um negate

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development, but how can we control it as best as possible? I think the idea was there is if they can't, you know, it's like we can either do this and impact the wetland or we can do this and it's going to cost $20 million to build this house, >> right? >> I think that was kind of the idea about the feasibility aspect of it if I remember correctly.

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>> Yeah. And then like when we had the the third street, they had to use the sewer line that's on the shore, >> right? >> But because the other way was to go to the DPW and grant to and get a waiver from the DPW to do a different kind of system because they bring us the the sewer line all the way down.

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>> Force main or something like force main down. So it's like, well, yeah, it's just easier to do a temporary disturbance in that area in that 50 foot area as opposed to >> all that work with the DPW, right? Yep. So to your point to say yes, waiverss

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aren't guaranteed. >> I think that's clear. But >> yeah, >> knowing that >> we're good. >> Flexible. >> H >> we're flexible. >> We're flexible. But >> within reason. >> Within reason. And I just want that underscored. If we think something's not within reason >> Mhm.

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>> we can say no and they can appeal. >> Yeah. We have a the project that's coming before the 10 before the 135 Oakidge is is got work within that 50 foot do not disturb but it's already existing lawn, >> right? So it's

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>> so it's in the do not disturb, but it's in disturbed land. So it is adding impervious area, but it's one of those things. It's like >> Yeah. >> And I can take a look back in the old emails cuz I'm sure I got all the stuff from all the edits. >> Yeah. And it could have been just something that we went back and forth on

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an edit on that date >> and somehow we changed the words and left the word after and it was supposed to have been something like >> it could have been just you know this type. >> Mhm. >> Got a question before you move on to your next one. Is there any reason would it be helpful at all if I put this

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document in a SharePoint so we can all see the same document on our computer and see people making comments and stuff in real time or would that just be confusing? How how difficult would that be for some people to learn? >> It should just be you opening a docu the word document.

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>> It's just that it'll be saved in my SharePoint. >> Okay. >> And then when you do be able to show up with your initial >> Can you do that or should we check with the IT person about >> that? I guess that would be my cuz I would use my work.

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>> Yeah. I mean which I don't think they'd care but or maybe you have access to a SharePoint you could put in. I could ask um the IT contract John's been on vacation this week. Um >> well, never mind. We can talk about it later. >> We can talk about it later. I'll see I'll see if there's something we can do. >> Would that become unwieldy if we had

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like little edits like >> it? It could be >> spelling edits and stuff. >> It it could it be ends up being violations to open. >> Oh, that's true, too. Good point. >> Well, cuz we have multiple comments going in outside of a meeting. >> Oh, yeah. It's Yeah, good point. Pesky

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opening. Never mind. No. Um, you don't have >> I thought somewhere in there we could also make sure we have a statement that when applicants uh something that just clarifies

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there can be uh RDAs or notice of intent applications that are being filed under our bylaw only but using the state forms. Yes, I'm >> but not getting a The state will not do

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a >> Yeah, I'm trying but I need to do that. I'm working on that. I'm trying to create our own form so we're not using the save form because the state doesn't like us using their form. >> Oh, okay. >> Is what I've been told. >> Yeah. >> So, I did get I did get drafts from other towns. I just have to figure out

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how to save it so we can alter it and make our own form. >> Yeah. >> Um because the state doesn't like us using theirs. Um but then also clarify that you know some applications be come before us that are only filed under the bylaw >> and regulations and

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>> that can be of in the um somewhere >> in the in the introduction or purpose or somewhere in there. Um, yeah. Okay. And Okay. So, yeah. So, I just have some clarification

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comments. I'll send them to you. >> Okay. >> And then we can >> we I can I'll throw it on the agenda for the next meeting as a discussion item. If we get to it, we get to it and we'll leave it on there. And then >> and then when we we feel like it's it's >> good for public hearing, we'll make sure

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um I sent to town council to review and we'll um get the public hearing scheduled for it. >> Okay. >> And then we'll start on open space. >> Okay. >> I would say to while you're at this stage right now, yes, start your slide deck with

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>> what the changes are now that you're proposing to put up public hearing. >> Yes. Smart. Yes, that is smart. Which one of the changes we have in there will be um to remove the flood plane regulations that are in there that were approved at town meeting and we haven't removed them out of our regs

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yet. >> Okay. Well, that's all I have for tonight. Anybody else have any else? One very It's not in our jurisdiction. We're having our deck redone. This is I should sit over there, but I'm not going to move. Um we're having our deck redund. not in the

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jurisdiction cuz it's on the other side. But if you wanted to come look at anything, you're welcome to come check it out. If you want us to put up anything, we will. >> It's just lawn behind your house, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> As long as you're not storing any materials within the >> Just going to store them all >> all the pressuret treated wood just

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right there. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and >> in the water directly all the arsenic straight into the ground. >> Just wanted to >> Has the contract with water and wetlands been signed by the town? Yes. >> So that's that's Yep. >> Good to go.

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>> Okay. If there's nothing else, >> motion to adjurnn. So move. >> Second. >> All in favor? I I chair >> votes I. It's 820.