Today is Thursday, May 15, 2025, and this is a meeting of the senior center site selection engus. Members of the public are welcome to attend this in-person meeting. Please note that while an option for remote attendance and or participation via Zoom is being provided as a courtesy to the
public, the meeting or hearing will not be suspended or terminated if technological problems interrupt the virtual broadcast unless otherwise required by law. Members of the public with a particular interest and a specific item on this agenda should make plans for in-person versus virtual
attendance supporting it. This meeting will be live on Zoom. The public may access the proceedings by joining Zoom meeting 375-4146055 or by calling 9292056099. For additional information about remote participation, please contact Carly Antineellis, assistant
town manager atm.na us 978-772-3220 extension 100 prior to the meeting. All right, wonderful. I promise to order at 6:03 p.m. Can I get a motion to either
approve or amend the agenda? Motion to approve or amend the agenda. So Brian's he doesn't know about pushing the button. Yeah, you've got to push a button to get in the door until it flies. Does he have trouble reading
because I never thought it I I tried kicking the door, you know, the door opens out. It's not intuitive. It's like I was going to break the glass to the window. We are open to push the handicap off the end. The agenda has been seconded. Okay.
Uh and we have no committee members virtually. So all in favor I chair says I wonderful. Uh next is the approval of the March 20th and April 10th meeting
minutes. I Dennis, thank you for getting those done and for sending those out to the group. If you did not review those in advance, I have printed them on very tiny paper print. There's a lot of paper for this meeting. So, um, your
punishment for not reading them in advance is in fact very Is this for the March 20th? Is it just one page? Yeah. So, it's it would have been front and back. I thought it was more pages like this one. So, maybe I didn't have to print it in. Are we missing Are we missing the um like
public input next meeting a German? Yes, we are. I don't know. All right. No, it was correct. I wonder if I messed it up when I printed it. Did everyone
have a chance to review it though or no? I'll make a motion to approve the March 20th as submitted packet I have has minutes with whatever. Okay. Yeah, I think I'm missing one page. Okay, but I'm sorry, guys. Um, all
right. So, there's a motion for approving the March 20th ones. Is there a second? Sorry. Okay. All in favor? I chair say I All right. So then the complete minutes are available for the for the
April 10th one. Thank you. Thanks. Again, I read the April 10th before I got here. So I'll approve. I'll make it a motion to approve the April 10th, 2025. Awesome. Thank you. Minutes for
the senior center site selection of Did everyone have a chance for it? Looks like people are ready to comm any progress. I need to get my word. Okay. Any
discussion? All right. All in favor of passing the April 10 minutes. Well, that brings us to the vertex and vote of the invoices. We don't like our bills. Been
doing that for decades. Yep. So, you folks uh I think you received the um vendor invoice package for the two uh recommended invoices for the month of April.
Yeah. This is this is more or less a a stripped down version of what we would be doing during construction with um even vendors that are on uh under contract. uh this would really start to flesh out and become more voluminous as we get into signing on more contracts.
So this would be kind of a one-stop shop for all for all invoices on monthly basis um for the little for the appropriation that we have currently. We're asking anything from the town that that is that is purchased on the side that is part of that original
appropriation at least we can reflect it in here so that we know what remains on there. So we do have two more that just became available the last day or two. So do two more two more invoices. So do we want to
send those is that the corre correct process? Send them through you first and then back to the committee. Yes. So what you what you received so this is for April. Um the two other invoices were do you know what for the um well I'm sorry
one for the um shear wave velocity testing and then I'm hoping we will approve one mentioned earlier that Jim had mentioned I think the best way regardless even if we vote it today we would reflect it in our next me just to
show that how it was how it was shown in perfect madam chair so the the money that has been allocated or was allocated for the sheer wave in some other so we're not approving the
allocation of the money we're just approving the payment of the invoice the allocation of the funds has already been done at in a prior vote so that so the for the particularly for the sheer wave one we kind of rolled that under remember a couple of months ago when we
had like $25,000 worth of site testing we sort of rolled that under the soil testing for that. But going forward, we would be voting to allocate the money for that to engage in a contract for that and then you would be voting again
to pay the invoice. So there are two separate votes. One to allocate the funding and the second vote is essentially confirming that the work was done and we feel comfortable getting correct. For example, two I think in the future I'll take an example. We have a testing agent that we want to bring on.
We'll provide a proposal for you to commit the money to them. Then we would engage with a contract and then they could invoice against that purchase order that we would bring in one of our packets that they'd be billing against that would be also working very soon. I mean, we don't have an
issue voting on the bill for the uh seismic testing, she wave testing now, do we? And adding it to the we can do it. The guy we approved the fact it was the work was going to be done the work and we got the amount to
the amount of bills that Yeah. I mean, I don't know that. Yeah. I don't know. We have no issue with that too. we can retro for the next um packet just to say that that had already been approved and put that in the so that was
$3,800 to HRGS and it's going to be a real savings for us too because Dan will tell us about that but u our engineers are very pleased that we don't have to do serious moment work on these a lot more steel a
lot more detailing so it simplies a lot so very positive madam chair would prefer a single motion for all three invoices or separate separate motions for each? So, because we're doing two within and one outside of the invoice
packet, maybe all three of them, but going forward, it would be to approve all the invoices in the invoice packet as one option, which is what we'll do now. I'm saying if you want to do them separately since one of those invoices is not in the packet you can do them separately but
going forward we would need to and I think going forward for efficiency uh we want to get this out to the committee before the meeting so that you guys have time to review it. So for expediency we can say we recommend this packet that right here all in one fell suit that for
so I move that the committee approve uh the invoices for the payment of $12,982 to vertex companies and $54,860 to Katherine Architecture second
in favor. Five. Great. Madam Chair, I'd like to make a motion that the committee approve the invoice in the amount of $3,800 to HRGC for seismic testing.
Second. Second. Okay. Any discussion? All in favor? I wonderful. very efficient. All right. Um, John, you are up with a design update.
Well, we I had Dan, I think, send out a PDF of the drawings, so hopefully people have a chance to look at them a bit. Um, there's no This is a very early draft set, although we're moving quickly on this thing. My engineers have started on
both the HVAC and the uh uh structural and they're currently writing narratives for fire protection and um electric uh electrical and um MEP and structural. So
those narratives will be part of the package that goes on June 1st to our cost estimator. uh and um along with a set of drawings our site um fellows are they are
currently they're going to be writing a narrative also they're just getting engaged right now so they're just getting started on that a couple of things that I want to point out that maybe we didn't discuss if you could put up the site plan go back a little bit
um I um I got to live in New Hampshire for a reason, but the state has some really new issues that came in under the new code. Um, one is they want us to be planning for 2015 where everything's
going to be all electric. Whether we agree with it or not, that's not my call. And part of that is an excessive number of charging stations. Um, in fact, I'll I know that
our team online probably can't see this. No, I'm sharing this screen with them. Oh, they I'll I'll lose the cursor where you are. We have to do all of these as plus these two. These will be hands. These these will be future. They need to
be We need to run out the conduits. We don't actually have to do this charging station. We're we're we're planning to have two charging stations with two cables each so you can charge up to four four vehicles. And because they're
they're going to be handicapped, u they're really handicapped for charging only. We we'll probably have seniors parking there thinking it's a handicap space. I'm sure operationally we will figure that out. Um, and I think
you're looking at I believe you're looking for some kind of grant or something for the charging stations. I know they're out there. My last two projects, they got grants for doing the charging stations, which would be helpful because they're not particularly
inexpensive. The one thing I'll warn you though is that we want to make sure that when you go to do this, we avoid what happened in Long Metal. They um it was early on in these charging stations and they went with a Canadian company which
went under and they're sitting there with plastic bags over them right now last time I was there and trying to get them somehow integrated with a new company. Um I think they're kind of proprietary units. So they're working on
that, but I I'd like to make sure that we get something that is everybody's using. So, we'll we'll verify that. Does the town have any electric? Um, I have a plug-in hybrid. Does the town have any any charging
stations now? Yeah. So, you have you have a a charging station there that you can be happy with. Yeah. Charge. Probably. Yeah. Let's let let's look at those. And if you could send me that, just send me the note about charge point and I'll have my
electrical engineer make sure that she's working with that. Does a Does the charging company typically install those? No. No. No. No. We run the conduits out and if they're not ready at the time we're
doing, we put in a hole. That was going to be my question is knowing we can find out what those charge points look like. It might like any detail. We're going to have some sort of base future use. Well, well, we definitely
like Ballards. Us older folks tend to run over things and um there will be curving and curb stops. Uh we'll be using um most likely granite curving because we find the concrete ones get beaten up
by the by the plows. Yeah. If you don't plow carefully. And so um but but there's a lot of details that goes into our work for this particular use group. To give you an idea of all
our curved areas uh in the parking lot, our beveled uh so we don't rip the tires apart or ruin the wheels which we have a bad habit of doing. Um but I just wanted to point out on the site u it's a larger
number. We all we have to do is find the conduits for those now. But we'll have those out there. They'll be marked. Jeep does. Yeah. Go ahead. I was going to say the conduit is an easy thing. You're going to run sight light and conduit. You're going to be doing other.
Well, put enough room in there to get any kind of tableling up. Littleton uses charge points for the Chford Senior Center uses charge point. Yeah. Yeah. We've met ours since there's another issue. my engineers, my electrical engineers
brought up is under the new code. We just finished Wilberham, which has a um I think we have an 800 amp service there. Um we're a smaller building than them, but she's talking about 1,200
amps going all. I'm hoping we size it down to a,000. Um that's a big service. We're kicking that around right now with her and we're doing because it's brand new some brand new code
requirements. We're learning a little bit about it because we just finished Wilberham and it wasn't that wasn't there. It's now there. So So she's she's getting us that information that came up uh two days ago. Um that also may size
we've asked the uh standby generator to be whole building generator. Um, we recommend that because if you're going to use it, we we don't like the word emergency shelter, but you're going to use it for warming or cooling. We want to make sure
everything's working. You know, pitch is working, uh, the elevator's working, it's all running. So, so for for that kind of setup, um, we do a whole whole building. John, could I
ask the upgrade from 800 to a,000 or 1,200 and potentially what is the I mean, how much does the cost increase usually go up every 200 years? He can he doesn't know that.
Is there a big number? I'm just a lousy architect. My my engineer will help us. You'll pay a sizable premium on the size of the the cable, the price that will be coming from the street into our transformer and potentially the size of the transformer itself that we'll get from a back charge
from the supplier. Yeah. And the transformer will be larger and and and in the because it's a standby generator, we can put our our switch gear in the same room as the electrical course. And um and
the the new service panels get pretty big. In fact, we may be sizing that room a little bit bigger. We just started. We just started. So, and the reason I I wanted to make that explicit is that as we bring this to the public and give them the final numbers on the cost of
the building, etc. I think it's important that we be able to say that because the electrical project changed and the number of amps required has increased by so that added such and such amount, you know, give or take the to the cost of the building.
that is it was not a a choice on our part to spend more money. We're still going to try and stay within our budget. Sure. Sure. But and and same with running into conduit up for future charging stations is not a big deal. Um
uh and uh so but but I I did point out before you got here the serious number of charging stations. Yeah. for you French energy code for like
10% of all parking to be EV ready. So, it's going to be conduits out there and then you got to make sure you can handle whatever units might come with future driving. It's not if it's a stretch energy goal, that's one thing.
If it's a change because we're building an all electric building, that's another stuff. We're required to be prepared for all electric. You know, we have to switch no matter what. Yeah. Yes. It's it's it's an add-on to the to the stretch energy codes we've been working
with for a number of years and now the this is just some amendments to it. It's not over the top, but it's February. Yeah. And um so she's bringing us up to date of Judy and our our electrical
engineer. Um our HVAC system is all electric. So that that will comply and there uh the design of it is to allow the control system allows you to run it during exceptionally cool periods
because there are two pumps. Um so that's where we are in the parking area. Um, can I ask for an additional Sure. Oh, absolutely. So, the service drop off area. Yeah. Are there going to be larger trucks coming into this area
for your choice, but semi trucks are not semi-truckss, but a box small box starts? Yeah. Is there enough turning radius to get in there and get out? We got to be able to get our big fire trucks in and out, too. Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Y we we have not yet started that. I just got recently contacted with
the police chief about radiuses for fire chief fire chief sorry fire chief and uh he just got me back so make sure so this area might yeah we'll start doing all kinds of we'll have a plan that shows all the turning radiuses and
mo mostly meet fire requirements but if they can get a fire truck in there or hook a ladder that we're going to and besides Guys, these guys are very talented. I highly recommend that when you get deliveries that you do it during off hours
because the parking lots get really full and a lot of people are not paying close attention to where they're parking. Um, good point though. Good question. Uh the uh I just you got the site plant
up there somewhere. I'll just point out for everybody here that um Dan has a septic field here, but it could move up and down in that zone, but it get starts getting steeper back there. and the um generator is going to slide
up a little bit and our we're going to move the sidewalk out and we're going we're going to enclose our HVAC heat pumps adjacent to this to the um back side of the building where we can move in our our our feeds and then that will
be enclosed with a fence go outside walking path this walking yeah what it'll do is end up looking like So there will be no corner there. It'll just it'll be a box. Yeah. This will be
boxed in here on a concrete pad and the generator will be adjusted appropriately. So right here is where you're Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. No, no, it's not. I just wanted to be able to cursor. What will happen is that see well actually this sidewalk will
continue over here and down and then back and there will be a rectangular area here since then where the HVAC equipment the generator will be adjusted a little bit more with this guy a lot of outside HVAC and then the field is
proposed over here you see we're getting a lot of tilt here we try to get it down to the in the flatter area there and over here will be a very large and very shallow um retainous areas for storm water building and that's being
calculated out. I mean to make that statement you made that same three or four times without it being a very large shell. Yeah. The civil engineer determined that already and he's working on look at that. Yeah. It's very similar to what we did in Wilberham. The reason for that is because if you do a smaller
one, but I got to finish it. Subsurface like no infiltration. Yeah. Chambers. Yeah. In more urban environments, we do chambers underneath the parking lot, but that's a lot more, you know, trying to be
And by the way, you may get a duck or two in there, but there won't be not much standing water. This is very good gravel. It drains well. In fact, I think our perk has hopefully it won't be too fast, but but um it's really important that if we can keep a nice open shallow
area with some wetland plantings around it, um it'll look good and we won't have to fence it. There's many times um see the strip between the Bishop Road and the parking lot. Yeah. Um you can do a little rain gardens in there, you know. Yeah, that's
a setback. A lot of shopping centers do that, too. There's a lot of rain gotten along street that's out back. We're going to try and contain all but because we don't have an obvious place to run water away from here. We we want to make sure we we
would retain the majority of the water on site and uh and they're working on um there may be an opportunity to put in that lower left corner too. Yeah. Well, instead of having one pretty
deep over there, I tell you what, a lot of that is filled. That might be one of our piles. There's a lot of filter years ago and some trees grow on. So, there's ways to build it on Yeah. So, we'll leave it up to the civil engine. He's good. He did um long metal for us
and um and he's nearby. I use a guy out of Franklin a lot, but he's a long ways away. This guy is in right over the border in New Hampshire. Okay. Um, now if you go to First North Plan,
great. What what Dan has been doing is that we're really tying down all the dimensions. Um and um and this can't
see. Um so this has not changed very it's been a revised according to the way the committee wanted to do it from our schematic design our feasibility study and now what we've done is our engineers now
have located did the column lines which are they show here they show here yeah I know see the columns are showing them and we held them off we held them off on the um on the actual steel design
pending. Well, you have that recent report. So, now we got the report. In fact, he wrote back, "Yay!" He was very excited. I know how structural engineers can get excited. But well, the one I will say one thing column wise, these
two here, they go from the first floor all the way up to the attic. They will be getting changed because right now they're currently in the second floor. They go right through a staircase. just yeah, but other than that that's the only column you're going to see that's kind of interfering. Everything else is
all in the way. Yeah. And we're we're looking there's some slight door rearrangements and things that we're we're making it buildable now. So the dimensions are getting on the column lines are on and um you know areas like
this this is these are return air ducts that are at the floor and there's one on each side because we have a dividing wall. So all that's getting integrated trying to do it fine. What's that? I'm trying to look at what you're pointing at over there and point
at it over here. And then the people on Zoom can see my Yeah. Then I blind you though. I might be out here. Where was the column that he was talking about?
It's different in she'll go over here. There's a column here. These are develop. They're going to be fixed. No, this redraw.
But this is why we're fighting. This is there's been a lot of movement here last and now we're doing fighting where there's conflicts that need to be resolved. Um you go back the
kitchen the kitchen is set up to be um where's the dishwasher? get involved with that process. This is clean. Sorry. Here. There we go. Your stove and your oven. Um, so the hood is over this.
Get rid of that. This is dirty up here and this is clean. Dirty's on the top. Dirty's down here. Oh, this is So, this is the dishwasher down here. Okay. And up above slide it through.
Right. Okay. It takes about a minute and a half each. Moves fast. Um, currently we are looking at it has to be all electric. It's not a big deal. But um I would like to know what the grant for for going electric
because if it's only 30 or 40 or $50,000, it won't be right. It really won't be worth it. So now did we do any um did we find out uh the difference in wattage between
straight electric and induction because I was doing Well, I haven't found any maybe you've come across them. I have not found commercial induction yet. They're out there. I was talking when I food show. We talked to um a kitchen
guys try Mark had one. So contact Mark. Well let my Boston they had one. The only the only difference between the straight electric and the induction is the induction. You have to use a steel pan. You can't use aluminum. It has to
be some kind of a ferris. Yeah. pans equipment is going to cost a lot more money. So you know what you what you're saving in cost you're going to spend in materials then well one it's a onetime
expense though unless you melt the damn thing you can't which I didn't know to do that by alums then there's the difference between an aluminum can or a stainless steel can is three times all right Well, other than that,
it's pretty much the same floor plan you've seen before upstairs. Um, I still um a couple of things I want to suggest. I can get shot down. I don't mind. I can take the pain, but I really think
side of these two rivers even though we had originally a lot of grass there. Um I think there was some concern about that but uh the the door itself will be glass and you can
see through it but the side help. What we find in community maybe senior centers is that when other seniors are walking down the hallway and see action going on they they're get much more interested in being a part of that scene. So there's a lot of
transparency that we designed and so that people see what's happening. And the yoga ladies will be somewhere else. But that's this room. This room has a large open fit and all those other things.
But I really think we need some transparency to make these room. If you go to long metal or Wilberham, you'll see that when something's going on in a room, there's a lot of action. And that's what sucks in other
participants. If you go to Chapi, they have a puzzle room that's through a opaque door and you don't know anybody's in the puzzle room or not. You know, you have no connection
to that. So, we design our centers very transparent. So, so the wall so the wall between the the corridor and the room should be as transparent as possible. But what about the walls between the rooms? They can be solid. What walls?
Between the rooms, there we don't put glass in. No, we looked at one that had that, but that nobody liked it, but it was because it wasn't being used as it was intended
to be. North Andover. No, I did North Andover. Yeah, but it was Oh. Oh, they change. We change. That was not the design. The director did that. It was all her fault.
I'll write that in my resume because I do think that heaven's just distracting from where it's in. That room that was now used room or something. That room was was um open before as open uh game room.
I see. And it had a glass wall to the room next to it. And when we she moved that all around, we still owned the glass wall. We weren't going to get rid of it. I could put like a small like 18 inch or
no 24 in blue sidelight on those two areas if that would be all right. Well, that's I can turn that. We're going to come back. I've already redlined that. I mean, you know, as as a user of the Littleton
um facility, are there glass walls one, you know? So, I mean, I' I've been the one that's been pushing it back against glass walls, but um I'm interested in feeling the experience, you know, as I do. Yeah. And I think my next question
is going to be knowing that the building may not be 100% set, but is it something you guys have done a solar study on just to check is solar study would be on the interior? Take a look at what No, we have lots of glass and and our
and by the way, you should understand that on the south side we have um um solar screens to screen the glass. And um also part of the design is that these lights under the new energy code, you
have to dim the outside perimeter lights during daylight. And they they do all that with way all that stuff so that the light level stays fairly constant. You're not burning lights where you don't need them. And in fact, I think in the multi-purpose room, you don't need to turn your lights on during the day if
you don't want to because we have six skylights in there. There's 10 actually. 10. Currently, it's 10. So, let's make it 15. But downstairs there's three panels. This is this half glass. Yeah. So, if it's like they're glasses and the
glass up above. Okay. I mean, not speaking as a user, speaking as a director. I would like to be able to monitor as I go by and make sure all is going well, people are happy, things are going well. Um, I like see through these. Yeah. I
like the idea of glass with the acknowledgment that if people really aren't enjoying it after some period of time of like six months, then we look into frosting the glass or just, you know, you can also do Yeah. I think there's a risk of having with too much
glass. That's the fishbowl effect that everybody everybody is looking at. Yeah. The other activity glass. I'll tell you, I remember to lab all there was a lot of glass and from lab to lab, we didn't want closed walls where you
couldn't see from one lab room into another lab room. So, what we did was were half half glass. So, we had benches, you know, along a wall and then above a bench there's storage and then there was glass. So you could if you were standing you could see into the
next room but if you were sitting you would kind of anyhow yeah we'll that's about how it's working in the cafe right now. Yeah. If you were sitting at a table you were and Katie we've had the same similar experience where people have lived in it and said oh wait this a little too much and some sort of like a
sticker veneer that you can pick the specific amount of light and transparency through it. Yeah relatively relatively short. We had we had a little um track and just pull you pull a curtain across it. Pull a pull at your
will. Um it's not a fancy middle. We can push a button. They do that by the way. Have you seen that glass? Yes. Really nice. Let's add another 500,000 to the project.
A lot of windows. Yeah. Oh, that's one of the street. You close the door. who has the Windex concession. Yeah. Um just straight ammonium. And then
what's happening as she's standing through this, the elevations haven't really changed. We're just now much more detailed. A lot more dimensions on them. Um there's a combination of board and and clapper. Um
it's a stone base currently. Yeah, there's a stone base. We It's a cultured stone base applied. Yep. Mostly because we found that um that when the clapper comes down or the board and bat comes down, it gets banged up, especially we have a sidewalk going all the way around
it and they're going to be plowing and shoveling it. We prefer something more resilient. It is a little bit more money, but I think it's well spent. Uh it's about it. It it comes up to the bottom still of the windows and it's it's a um when we get around to picking
colors and materials will be picking the stone uh and it's culture stones applied to uh the frame system is that around the whole perimeter. Yeah. the entire because we have now currently
we won't go backwards. So, but currently we have a walking area that goes all the way around the whole areas. It looks like and and we're going to be having snow guards all the way around to keep the snow from crashing down on people. Oh, good. Run over that door.
In Massachusetts, it won't be snowing in 2050. So we know um this is this is um I don't think we reflect the ceiling. Oh, here I'm sorry. I'm just scrolling.
I'm just doing my There we go. Oh, most of it um upstairs are all 2 by twos. Um these are full length ones of acoustical u ceiling tiles. We use um a
NRC 0.95 absorption. This doesn't absorb anything. So yeah, a lot of people when the it gets all the carbon helps a bit. This is working pretty good surprisingly just the one you just did. Yeah, it's amazing. But um but if you go if you go
to any of these other centers, you'll see using this this particular ceiling tile really um keeps the background high frequency noise down, which is what we have a hard time hearing through as older adults. High high frequency sound
interferes with our ability to hear well. So we do a lot of work with controlling acoustics. Um especially when you get a big crowd and everybody's chatting it up. The lobby is a good example of that. Lobby is this is we have a very loud
active area here. We have a quiet area over here moves from one to the other. And these are broken down into um they're 8 by8. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Copper type ceilings and and and the
rest of it is pretty much straightforward. ceiling 2x4s, 2 by twos. And then now if we go to the floor plan, which is part of our movement issue, I just was the other way. You were
looking at the finish floor plan. What? Oh, am I going back to that? Sorry. Anybody tell me what I'm looking at? Yeah, the bottom right hand corner. Yeah, this is the finish plan. No, keep going all the way down. I was looking at one
more. There we go. So, what happens now is that the the concrete ceiling is reflected in the floor pattern. The floor pattern is designed to give what we call wave binding. A lot of people with visual
visual issues. Um, allows you to see where you're moving. used to a a little game a long time ago and a big you take a big open room with absolutely the same floor everywhere. You put on glasses that are smeared up with Vaseline and you tell everybody to stand at one side
and walk straight across and it depends how you're you walk like this because we don't see the contrast on the floor. It's all uniform. And as we get really old, we wander around like that. This pattern allows you to to visually with
macro degeneration, you're able to see where you're moving. So, we give patterns on the floors. Um, this room is a basket. We lenolium and it's alone that has some acoustical properties combined with a ceiling
system and we put some acoustical panels on the walls. You control the high frequency noise. Again, especially if there's a presentation, people are able to hear it when it's clear. And then the kitchen, bathrooms, and storage rooms are all seamless and vinyl. The kitchen
has a non-slip um vinyl system, and it's seamless, so it's all washable, and it's reasonably soft, so when you drop your wine glass, sometimes it will survive. Um, bathrooms
are also all seamless. Um, these are and it has a different pattern because we're calling this dirt there, but this is all seamless. It goes in up. If you go to an elevation of one of the bathrooms and the kitchen was the
same way, Dan, where are they? The elevations are way up way up here. Yeah, I feel like for the uh the bathroom they're off the floor. Oh, one more. Go.
So, you see here that's FRP up to this level. It can take in the bathroom. Yeah, in the bathrooms in the kitchen. It goes all the way. No ceramic tile. No. Okay, fine. Yeah, it's
much much cheaper. Ceramic tile sucks. What about the janitor's closet? You use the FRP all the way to the ceiling. Seamless all the way to the ceiling in the same room in the kitchen. Okay. And when they come down to the floor, they integrate
with a seamless roll up. There's no joints at all. So the bathroom floor integrates into ther FRP and same in the kitchen and same in the uh in the generator room. So if you looked at a
big blow up of this of the joint here, you would see the vinyl comes up and integrates with it with a fitting into the FRP. Of course, it's all hand accessible. Um and we uh we'll talk a little bit with your
facility folks as to how you want to use paper towels or or blowing air. We do usually do hand blowing air and we we do have a disposable integrated into the um their standard supply buildings.
Chuck would have like fancy places to paper in there and other stuff. Sometimes they throw the accessories you have a contract with them already. So yeah, you may have you may have like the
way you want your soap done. Um right now we fric soap dispensers and yeah we're not really big on it but everybody around here likes it. What's that high-speed air accelerator? Yeah.
Well, the problem with it throws the bacteria all over the moon. Well, measured at my age. Most of you guys are young here, but if you put your hand underneath your your skin kind of moves around, bleeds your
bleeds your hand. I'm I'm into the little bit softer ones, Toto or one of those guys. You need a better skin skinare routine. Yeah. No, I just I put all that stuff on me and it never works. Um, so all the handicap stuff will get
worked out. We do almost all our projects have serious hands that we have in place. Um, in fact, even the main stair going upstairs, the risers are 6 in because we want as many seniors
walking the stairs as possible. And there and the width of the stair is is about 50 inches. I think two people can pass. Um midway up there's a landing with a love seat. Not a love seat but a snuggly seat.
Yeah. A resting threshold. Yes. Yes. And then around the corner back up. So those are all I think this Do the stairs show up here? Right. I haven't fully developed the stairs yet, but they do show elevation elevations. But um but yeah, stair is in it. That's
a stair. It goes up. Yeah. It comes around if you go to Sorry, we're moving it on. Go to the 740, you'll see it better landing. Go to landing there. You come around. There's a bench here. So you come up here, come around,
go back up this way. 6 in risers. Um transparent railings. This is a we HDI for our railings standard trans. Um and uh yeah, they're um they're wood treads, but they have
uh alumines and and and rough edge to it to def to differentiate the edge so people can see the edge of the stair. Otherwise, if you do the same stair, let's say maple, it all looks the same. So having that edge change is very, very
important. Um you're excuse me, Dan, the stairs that go up to the the emergency stairs. What do you want to call them? Stairs have the third floor. Those also get finished, right? Yes. They're going to have a Yeah, they have a rubber tile.
Yes. They have a rubber where they strip it. So, you can see if all the lights are out and nothing's working and not even lights, you can they glow. You find your way up.
And also, and I've marked it up on our set, we need a little bit more room for our refuge. Yeah, I was thinking about Yeah, it's not quite large enough. We'll have a space up here. Oh, that little bit. We'll have a little bit larger. We need
to work with this a little bit in order to have an area of refuge because I don't know why the codes do this, but rest assured that if there's an emergency and you lose power and your elevator is not working or there's there's smoke and fire, the elevators
are not supposed to work, we don't care about anybody who can't walk down the stairs. Yeah. I mean, that's the code, you know, but we we do. And even though it's only a two-story building, it's not required for our senior centers. We have an area refuge. It has a communication
system. Allows the person in there or the people in there to communicate at the front door when the firemen come in. And uh it's an alarm system and they'll know right away if somebody's waiting stair upstairs. And it's a two-hour
rated smoke detective stair. So um and there'll be enough room for maybe two wheelchairs, a couple walkers, small wheelchairs. Okay. Um, but that's kind of where we are right now. There's a lot more going on.
Um, our engineers are just firing up and they don't have a lot of time left. They've got two weeks to get us their narratives and their rough out for how they're going to be doing the HBAC system. We're putting nothing on the roof if we can, but we have roof
access. There's a reflected reflective roof on it. The drainage is up in the roof, but we're all of our equipment will be down. And then there's some stuff on definitely there'll be some up there. No, not necessarily. No, nothing's up
there. Yeah, we're able to get like an ECC unit which it might feel a little split system for the IT room, but that's about it. Everything's on the ground floor guys. And the big ERV unit is in the attic. And we'll be using an ERV to
meet the stretch energy code. I do have the attic minimum here. So you can see how open the air is. What's your energy recovery unit required by code when you in the winter time you got to all this fresh air has to be in there. So you're exhausting all the nice warm air. So we
grab that heat and we spin it around in a wheel and it deposits that heat into the incoming air so that you heat the outside cold air and it reverses in the summer. hot air is is um is being
brought in and cooled by the cooling of our system as we exhaust our cold air out. And they're big. They're like 20 ft long. They look like a a train. And if you go to the attic, which
I think is a little farther down there, there it is. This is our This is the top of the elevator. This is our IT room. Um I Where's the IT room? Yeah, you have it right. Yeah. Oh, there it is. Right there. And that's
their access to it. And and there's going to be a ladder. It doesn't show right now. Up to a roof hatch, which shows up at the ceiling on the roof plan if you go down a little farther. No, it doesn't. Oh, it doesn't. Yeah. These are the solar tubes that light the
multi-purpose room which I'm not kidding during the day. Even on a full moon it lights the room. You walk around as if it's lights up. The diameter of those tubes. They're 21 inches. You got them. We use them for we've been
using them for years. very effective. Shocked at how much light I bring in. We actually we if we're really feeling generous, we try and put them in the bathrooms, too. They're very You don't have to turn the light.
I think would be important for us would be where the provisions were for in the event that solar wants to come into this building years down the road is where that provisions would be because that's the code too. That's our big flat roof, right? That's currently doesn't have crack.
Oh, mark my words. Yeah. Wait, it's flat. It's flat. It'll reach up. Well, we have to. We We can only go 30 more feet high. So, if we if we kept our nice You would never see it. You'll never see it. It's not.
No, you go up like this. And if you snowstorm and there's like four feet of snow up there, you're going up through the hatch. Yeah. No, we never get snow on our roofs.
Go back down. I live I live in Sorry. No, I'm sorry. Obviously going to be You sat down. I had a roof. Dan, I saw a roof somewhere. You were on that roof. No, that was that was
right. 12 to go up there. We had it. There it is. These are going to be there will be roof drains here uh here here and here. Um and uh there'll be a roof
hatch here with a ladder accessing the roof. And this roof could have solar panels but I prefer solar being on the grid. You know we got a lot of land around there. So yeah go back to the question that Bonnie brought up. Is there a
um is there a section through? So what is there elevation? What's the What's the elevation change between the flat roof and the top of the piston drop down very very tiny? We don't
have Yeah. In fact, there's a breather some kind of a what do you call a detail comes out where you're going to have the rubber. Yeah, we have actually we have a continuous vent at the edge. It's it's a custo. It's not custom. It's a standard
unit. Yeah. All the way along if you go. That's fine. Let's find an elevation. Uh, keep going. The the insulation the original insulation on the sauce. There's a minimum of three and a half and it's tapered. Hey Dan, where are
elevations? These are for building section. Yeah, building elevations. They're after the flood pl. Keep going. Um, go up a little bit just by the way. Well, I can't see it. But where
this this is our flat roof, this is a slope roof. If you're standing on the ground, you'll never know there's a flat roof up there. But this edge right here is vented. And um I think building section probably the best. Like one of those sections you got there, right?
there. Keep going. Yeah. So up there at the top where the this will be vented all the way along here. These will be vented down here. So there'll be no real wall. It's just going to be like flat. It just the detail works out really nicely. And by
the way, the roof wreath, we used a 100 panel. So in order to get an R60 roof, we have seven inches of of close cell foam. On top of that is a 100 panel which got has I think three and a half
inches of poly ISO and then on top of that is a one inch space with with a panel above that with spacers in it allowed that roof to breathe all the way up. So the roof is cold and the interior is warm. And
that's a 100 panel. And that's all of our slope roofs here have that 100 panel on it. And um our steering walls are a zip panel with one inch of of insulation with um 5 1/2 in of closed cell foam.
That gives you an R40 in the walls. R60 in the roof, R40 in the roof. So the whole idea is the walls are this is pretty cool. Yeah. Close up. Yes. And the whole idea is that uh in the and the
roof the building is is ventilated and the roof systems are ventilated so you don't have the moisture problem from that and the closed cell keeps moisture from moving up through it. And um and the zip panel is is a breathable.
The green panels you see on on new buildings being built. The roof ones are orange and uh and all those details will happen during design development and construction drawings, but those are all being worked out now. And my cost
estimator is familiar with all of those details since she's estimated my last for the last 45 years she's done this. Kevin, is that enough for you? Can you talk about one more thing? I'm getting horse now. Yeah, you've got a great Thank you very much. The glass. Let's
talk about the glass. What about the glass? Who's glad? So, right now we're specking a pillow metal clad with wood wood interior. Um low E um all the stuff that makes it extremely
um energy efficient. They're all Energy Star. It doesn't mean they have to do Pella. You know, we give them three options. Marvin Pella and whoever else in there. Is it double? Double or triple double? I don't triple way. Is that way
too much? Well, you don't need it. You don't get anything out of it. There's some new ones out now that are much better, but we did Welsley and triple. Just should have done the bell. They wanted triple. We did Marvin triple be.
Um, all our other projects have been I think Wilberand didn't end up being Pella because Pella was having problems with the supply chain issues. We use Colby which I had not much experience. Wow. Actually really nice. They were
nice. I like Kobe. I do big private houses. It's a good question. Canadian. Oh, make a good one. Got across the border. Forget it. No, no. I thought we adjusted all those.
They're moving around like by the time we get done like a snake, you know, to the grass. Um, yeah. We speck it around a pellet. Metal clad. No matter who it is, it's going to be metal clad. Metal clad. We don't We stay away from vinyl
because vinyl, it's a little bit like PVAs, the solar panels. They have a limited life. Vinyl eventually breaks down. They put all kinds of stuff in that keeps the right life. And I always like to point out the vinyl side of buildings in about 25 years some kid
throws a ball against it. Five years. One year. Well, really cheap do a good job. Yeah. Um, so this is and our sighting right now is specked around party submitted, but but there's other manufactur work we we spec um we used to
call No, I don't touch that with a 20 foot junk. Old junk. What's the plastic? You just heat it in the summer. My house has it in the winter. I got gaps like this and in the summer they're tight as
a drum and they have to be cut at an angle and glued and screwed. But we use something called um Borel Borell which has been bought by somebody called True Trim or something. But it's a poly cement type thing. It can be routed and
shaped and it it it doesn't expand, contract, pick up moisture. comes pre prefinished as a prime painted to match and uh we've been using it now for ever since Holio where some of my 20 foot
AACs were we had to put special things to allow it to move in and out on small projects I that's all we used for years AAC it's pretty expensive and it's not very um environmentally friendly plastic
show Take that. Thank you, gentlemen. Okay, you're running probably too much time. All right, I want to just m chair. John, can you just keep following up on
the requirement to go over possibly 800 to 20 budget? That's a 50% increase. Oh, I think it's horses. We're going to build an energy efficient building and make you have to build it all electric. Therefore, it's going to cost you $100,000. I don't I don't know. I We're working with her right now. She
broke that news to us the other day. I don't know whether had that. I don't think that was in effect when they got their plume. It's now in effect. And she was she said, she's really good. She's worked with us for a long time. She sent
it over and said, "John, you read it." Right. and I hand it to Tan and said, "You read it." We're working on that right now. I think by Monday, Tuesday, we'll have it figured out. It just arrived on our table Monday, I think. And I think a question also might be is if the intention is to go for the electric in
the kitchen, if that's a breaking point on that decision on stepping up that might weigh everybody on this. Also, to be honest with you, the electric stove and the u the induction is a lot more
expensive than the gas. And we would do gas with with electronic starts. Well, you have to in open pilot have you have to have the the push buttons by contract done and
somehow slip through the things in and in the overhead. They're pilots. Yeah. I don't take a chance of it. Get rid. And the problem with pilots is that it keeps stripping your seal the vector. And I said, "Well, why does it do that?" Because it creates seal.
Not great, but we still put in a lot of det. Yeah. No, we we're well on that. Yeah. Good point. Um but we'll we're getting down about that. I asked my cost estimators. He is current on everything.
and see what he's talking about. And a kitchen designer, we're looking to work with with um Boston. What they're what they call Boston? Yeah. Boston Showcase. They have an engineering division. And um so you have you haven't set out to a
designer or supplier yet? Yes. The designer Boston Showcase. Okay. Now the supplier will be the contractor. And by the way, again, it's spec with m it's almost always a car. So the u the hood
is in our base bid, not in the kitchen bid. Uh the we already bought the refrigerator. Thank you. Yeah. And um yeah, it's going to move over. That's what he said. That's it. We have
we have a freezer except separate freezer and some of the bigger this not very big center. Bigger centers sometimes do a pair of those. You go look inside it. I've worked in commercial kitchens my
entire life. So God God bless you. You're right. I'm used to feeding 1600 people in an hour for lunch. Where's the burn blisters on the as you're careful? No, I I used to work with a guy who could unload the sheet pants out of the oven bare hand and he
would go put them in the rack. He didn't work for so long. But we speaking of electric we supposed to get we satisfied with the response that we got from the national rebate. So we received the what we were getting per rebate based on a square
footage cost at the beginning of the project and also at the end. But then they also have a calculation based upon the times because we may need some input from our a we'll have that soon. So that's another component of that and we can come up in
the rough order magnitude of what we think the kickback come from utility. Um, I think we're going to be in a situation where, okay, here's our kickback, here's our upcharge on the end, and we may be in the situation where we say this, not not necessarily
just the cost of buying the equipment, but running all electric is is now in Wilberham, the senior center pays no electric bill, even though it's fairly hefty. And the reason for that is because town has a big PVA array
somewhere and they kick the electricity back into the grid and they'll get a credit for that. Maybe someday you'll do that. Um, but I can tear it out. That rebate would be helpful. Brian. Yes. And John, what was the name of the range
that you guys make? Boston Garland usually does it. They get three choices in our stock. I can't remember all the other ones. Yeah. So we had Boston showcase down the street as well. They used a vulcan vulcan is another 48 inch electric range that was 48. Yeah.
Trying to get a breakdown of what we got for and the size of the range is based on the probable maximum number of meals to be served at we go with the one of the larger ones. We go with one that you can also drop in a grill, you know. So you
can do pancakes Saturday whatever. Saturdays. You know the word Saturdays? Sure. Um but it's I think it's an eight burner in which you drop the grill and to uses up four burners or something. I think that's what is it double ovens
down below and then you're happy or else your convection which are double right now stack. One of the problems with the national grid program is that they pay you at the very end, right? They don't get to there
is. Yes. And there's also um at some point sometimes they have an engineering check that they want to review on that as well which comes at a cost. I think they split the cost with you on that. In the old days you used to pay the architect. Yeah. Right. Um but yes,
mostly the rebates do come at the end. something that you can't plan for in what they really are. That's the problem. Well, you know, after the after the governor's proposal, you know, some of those may be going away. I mean, try to
take that some of the three billion that they've got in mass aid that they can't give away massive billion. They've been collecting for 25 to 30 years since then. Or you could use it. Have to advertise so hard to get people to use it, but still they can't give away. Yeah, we could use that. We could get
that. Um, well, that's that's kind of me and Dan on on the draw. Dan's been doing all the drawings. She's been having a lot of fun. We have Kelly in our office is working on the window door schedules. Um, which we really don't need in
detail, but she'll be doing that. Um, and the lighting schedule will be in there, too. Okay. I was anything anything else before just for the sake of keeping it going. One more question to John. Okay. I think it's important. I shouldn't be sitting.
Is there a sequence in the process? We'll be doing this thing called value engineering. Oh, we do the design. Oh no. When we get the cost estimates in, there's going to be a lot of adjustments that we'll all make together. It'll be
your call on it. But let's say we think it's 10 million and it comes in at 13 million. We have to start looking. Now we have ad alternates that we're going to have in um and we're try and stay within about six max um but you know maybe the stone
base will go away you know. Okay. So it is a process that's question ask us are you doing invalue engineering when you do this process or you just the whole project is value well I know I'm trying to value engineer it but you know after you got lots of money
well actually it'd be great my fee is very flexible just keep adding money to it we're going to cut it to be part of the value engineer yeah no um anyhow Um, uh, that's where we are
right now. And, and again, this is a our check set. Dan and I both been bleeding over it with little red red sketches and bumps and things like Dan's found that the uh, couple columns are in the way. You know, our engineer will get
straightened out on that. Plus, we're working in Revit, so they'll have a model. So this time we're going to look really closely at that steel model because oh Wilberham they stuck a beam right 8 in into our window wall in the
multi-purpose room. I hate to find that out when we're building in the interest of time. Can we move to Yeah. site updates and Yeah. Let's go. See you very I'm done. Thank you. Thank you.
[Music] to go. All right. Yes. Yeah. I mean, it was getting there was a lot going on. So, I was like, I gota get a lot. You don't want to get blamed later. Yeah. Um, so hopefully
I'll get to read the memo. Um so basically gave an update on the offsite utilities the seismic evaluation which we already heard about McFersonson and Bishop road jurisdiction mea and natural heritage.
So first thing off-site utilities water main so we're continuing with the permitting with panam with the road um trail road and at the same time Matt's putting together the housing choice grant application so that's up to 500
we're using, but we're going again. Um, and we've worked together with Katie and Alicia on that and and the money for that would go to help the cost of the water design. Yeah. The water construction. Yeah. So, you know, right now I think the design would be the
construction design is done by people for free. Everything's free over there. No. Um so yeah so that's it would go to the construction board. Um so for that though the committee should write a
letter of support um to you know attached to that submission of the uh the grant application um because the more letters of support we get the better. So would we get one from the sele? We are planning to get one from the Okay. Yeah. Do we want to
vote to write that letter? Does anyone want to volunteer to write it? But I think Ken does, doesn't he? Yeah, we've done this for many grants before, so we have a template some template something. Yeah,
I'll try and then somebody can edit. All right, I could uh find you a template. Okay. But then yeah, I think we'll need just like create that letter
provide that you apply. It's their discretion. It's the 500,000. Yeah. And then they have discretion to to give you less. And and to whom is the letter addressed? Police. The housing. It's the one stop.
Yeah. We It's a housing already did one. I already did one. So you do what person, what office, what um it's in the it's in the onetop where it Yeah. information say the the housing choice pre onetop the community grow program.
Yeah. Has a bunch of those letters as well from all Oh, sure. Yep. So get a motion to I move that we write a letter of support
um for the housing choice. Second. Okay. All in favor. Chair says I. Great. Wonderful. All right. So that's why I remain still moving.
Does everyone understand that that's the maximum allow the $500,000 without looking for that's the max right? year. Okay. Because I wasn't sure that two fund, right? Apply for the right the
so right. And we're still unclear whether we're we could get the f the cost is 700,000. We could get the 500,000 or whether we're only entitled to the 200,000 that is up to the total 500,000 because the 300,000 we're using
right now is the same grant, housing choice grant. But we're asking Yeah. Ask for the full five. Maybe they only give us the two, but from Alicia's conversations with the grant people, it sounds like they want to answer them. Great. Ask for it all. Hopefully they
get it all. Um, okay. And Ken, feel free to chime in on others who have been part of this too. Electric and Comcast. So, we had a meeting with them May 2nd. um had grid and Comcast both on the call and we
talked we you know had a map up and we're talking explaining the project potential pathways to bring electricity and to bring Comcast to the site and so kind of the two potential ways are to come down the corridor kind of like the water meanings coming down Bishop Road
and bring electric and pump gas that way and the other way is is really for electric to tie and on. So there's a high tension power line that runs down the through the DPW site. So you could you can actually tap off of that with a
a transformer and go to the site map and be able. So there's there's pros and cons to both. I sort of listed them in here and you know national grid it really you know it wasn't coming down Bishop Road. It's not a dealbreaker, but there was a
lot more hurdles they had peritting with FAA, which seems kind of odd because the airport is not being used as an airport. Um, the railroad crossing of course natural heritage and one thing as well was and I'll get into it in a later item
is the McFerson road, Bishop Road. It's really Bishop Road now. We know um is is part of the jurisdiction. Mass development has jurisdiction there. So National Grid will need consent a legal agreement with Mass Development that wasn't agree with. So that stuff just takes time. Mass development's already
indicated to us it's they're okay with that. Um you know one good thing we did learn was the town can basically do the construction do the installation of the conduit. Um and as like if we're say for example we're doing a water main job at
the same time they're the same contractor put in all the conduit for Comcast and electric and it just gets inspected. It gets designed by by National Greater Comcast. Um so I I I thought like that's if we go underground overhead that's a different story but I
didn't know we were allowed to do that. So there could be a potential cost savings there. We learned that. Um so the Comcast is um the best way to connect Comcast really is coming down Bishop Road because if we have to go from the site I wasn't even clear as to
where they pull it where it pulls where they start from and then they were concerned about having to go under the high tension wires. They're just more red tape as you do that underneath under the high tension wires the process they're going to go this way. So yeah,
so that was kind of a big concern podcast. So long story short, that was May 2nd. I did just actually I had an email while we were here from um from National Grid. There's a meeting scheduled for May 22nd to discuss alternatives um or some the alternatives
they've come up with based on review from some documentation Ken and I have put together that came out of our first meeting. So, we're still working with grid and Comcast to kind of find what's the best solution, what's the best way to do this. Um, anything to add, Ken?
I would add only drama. Uh, Dan was very nice at what he said. Very, very disappointing. Garrett National group came up and said at the beginning of the meeting, we spent the first 15 to 20 minutes determining that in fact the land was in the town of Air
and it was in their service area. when they came on the board, they used the Google maps. It's fascinating. Google Maps shows that land is still within debts, our land. Um, so the first thing they had was incorrect documents. They were totally unprepared to even assume they could put the the power down the
street. Um, so it was very disappointing. Then the FAA thing and the railroad, it went on and on and on. Lastly, they got to the the fact that the lines that go through the DPW could be a very clean alternative and the solution. Yeah. And we're hoping that's
where it ends up and we actually to our waist, right? So in the process of doing it, so they asked us to provide them with plans of how that we thought we could get it from the transmission lines to the site, which I did, and a bunch of photographs with
text, photographs of the potential connection to the line, photographs of the potential location of the transformer, drawings that we sent over to show how to get from the lines to the site to the gravel road that's there. Yeah. very anyway that was what we sent since
then and now it looks like we have a followup meeting so it could be a big deal if they say they can get off those lines so in the process of doing a site walk with Dan what we actually discovered I think it discovered it wasn't clear that the
sewer treatment plant is there is being fed up the same exact lines that we would prefer to use for the senior suit they currently have an off the same lines. And it turns out these are not typical transmission lines. There's three sets of lines on in
these. Two of them are typ small versions of transmission lines. The third set is more like you'd see going down a regular street. That's kind that's the set of lines would would ask me to go up. So they have a current three-phase power connection to those
lines. Did we transform that transform run the sewer treatment plant and what was really kind of confusing to me maybe I got a little too deep in it when I first got down there and walked the site I saw underground go into the to the sewer treatment plant. If you clarified
and said there were some issues with the underground over the years or something so they connected to the lines. So we now have a very valid case with photographs showing them what's going on. We just need a site visit and hopefully we get a result.
No details of cops down the street. We could do the trenching on our own, but it's got a lot soon to see what happens. And from an optimistic standpoint, you have your next meeting. Do they give any set of timetable for when they can
mobilize or what you know what they proceed what their usual processes for engineering on their end. I think we're we're still kind of too high level because we're figuring out do they have to do right of way legal legal work with mass developing stuff like that. We're still trying to ask the focus scope and
then we'll go back. Here's where we But if it were to come off of DW properties, that would be the quickest way probably red. We'll we'll wrap. We're going to continue working after June. We have plenty of stuff to do. Yeah. So, we'll
work through June and July, but by July, they should have good direction from us. And then we've got to get through town meeting and and the vote which will be what's our estimate if it all goes favorably October October
27th. Yeah. So we have some time and I think what what needs to happen is we need to start lighting a fire under them. We have it. Yeah. And give them because they're notorious as Brian's point out. We we actually do not make it
any easier than it is right now. So yeah, it looks very close. They should be pretty much in a no backjab situation. It's very close. There's There's almost no way that it doesn't work engineering wise. I don't know. We should have to draw it up over put all that money into our
project. We're hoping it's Yeah, we'll see. Very good news on that. Thank you. Um I think that there may be broadband grants for bringing um you know uh bringing broadband to unserved
or underserved locations and because the that our location is obviously not served. I think contest may have grants available require to bring a broadband to that location which doesn't currently
exist. That was one of the statements that National Grid made after they determined that yes, the land is in the town of air and yes, it's in our service area. Yes, we do have an obligation to provide you. You are a customer. Yes. So the tickets are well
contained every Sometimes you might have to land on the land of this. Well, we still had when the show was up, we still had the helicopters were active over there.
So, what do you We hope it's close. All right. All right. Next up, seismic analysis. I think we already know what's happened there. We reclassified the class D. Yeah. Yeah. Uh McFersonson Road, Bishop Road Jurisdiction. So, I communicated with
mass development engineer. I think this time I talked to a chief engineer. I kind I'd worked with him several months ago on this, but um basically long story short, what we've learned is that and you can see it in the diagram on my memo
um Bishop Road, it's called in in in Devons goes from the gate to a point 400 ft west of where the um brush dump gate is now. You can see where the arrow bound is here. And basically that that
400 foot that limit is the Oxbow National Wildlife. So so Devon has jurisdiction there. Um when you get into the Oxbow Oxbow National Wildlife Refuge Ox the US Fish and Wildlife Service has jurisdiction and that's called McFerson Road. So as you head further down toward
the Nashville River and Mass Development has a right of way and a utility easement through their for their uh their their roadway and their utilities. So So we got clarification finally. So it is called Bishop Road throughout that section. Mass Development has
jurisdiction in that the section where we would be doing any of our work down the corridor. So we have to work with them. Um it'll bring watering down. But um that's a long time coming, but yeah, we got some clarity and the and the movement of the living the gate
basically moving the gate is Yes. Um so I actually I reached out and I hadn't heard back. I reached out on last week um because there was going to be a meeting with Oxbow a month or so ago now and they canled it and then I haven't heard anything so I reached back out to Devon and living here. So I got to
follow up on that. The plan would be to still move the gate to the triangle. Yeah. Well getting hashed out. So yeah. So it will at least move to this point this 400 ft west of the brush dump gate. It at least be the gate move down to
there. The hope is let's just put a gate down at the triangle. One gate be done. Optionally there could be two gates. It would just make the turn, you know, if somebody does happen to go down that way. It would just make the turn around. That was strange. It would close that
the other day. They never put a sign at the front of the screen or anything. Just close it. That's it. Take a clos part of what if the gate moves there would be a sign down at park and bishop.
Um, okay. Yeah. Now make a permanent. So again, feel free to kick in Ken. So Ken and I met um on the team's meeting virtually with two two employees from MEO, the permitting office, Kate Harson and
Jennifer Hughes. Um and quickly in a summary of bulleted points here, we did learn an EIR environmental impact report is required. So that you know what that does, it adds adds a lot of work to this permit.
Um that we did learn you can technically petition the secretary to exempt a geographic area from the environmental justice area that's laid out. You know based on conversations with them, you know, it's probably like a non-starter. If we went down this road, it would be
very challenging to have to play some kind of political game. But um you know we learned that the environmental justice the way it's laid out is it's by census blocks and so that's why this nonpopulated area is really part of it the block traverses over that um over
the area where our our proposed site is even though there's no population there. So unfortunately that's just the way it gets laid out the way they do environmental justice. So we can't really change it. The US Census Bureau set these blocks up years ago. Yeah. And
they just did. And there's no challenging it. They just sit there on a map. Interestingly enough, they only fall in few places in the state of Massachusetts. It happens to be one. Yeah. Some history, you know, in the town of air, some population, some militia
weapon in the past, whatever. So, so that the environmental justice that's us being in that area, that's what's driving the E requirement. Um, so we did learn that there is kind of a a streamlined permitting process that can be done because t typically the
way it works with meer is you submit what's called an environmental notification form and then it goes out to public review and comment and then the secretary writes you a letter and would tell you okay now you have to submit an IR because you're environment just so then you start another permit
process send an e go through the whole thing again. So this way basically you bundle the two together in one submission. So they call it an ENF and a proposed EI. So that's that's basically what we're being told we should and have to do and then that is what we should
do. Um you know we are still kind of working this out. Um the other thing is there's advanced notification requirements for an environmental justice community. It's 45 days between 45 and 90 days prior to your submission. You have to have done
certain outreach items and potentially in different languages. I was looking at that though today. I was trying to make sense of those layers. It doesn't look like we're in an area that requires a language I think accommodation. I looked and we aren't
but we are one we are within a mile of an area that I'm sure. What's the other language? Mandarin Chinese is like uh I don't I don't Yeah. So anyway, yes. So this there's you know
just to add this layer also lots of war. Um one thing that did come up that we commented about um public outreach was the fact that well I made I said we've had 14 meetings supposed to meet. So I did mention that we've been out to the public. We've been in events you know
been to that cell and so on. We said, "Oh, that's good." And we probably want you listing that as part of this, but in addition to that, this notifications, right? So, the offer, how do we go about
pinning down that timeline for when the public forum or the public hearing or the public meeting would have to occur in order for the application to proceed? I mean, I think it would be good for us to know, you know, 45 days before you submit this,
you need to have a public hearing which notifies everybody that it's it's already happened. Yeah, it's a little more to it than that. Um, yeah, the notification they're talking about could be part of a process that
notifies adjoining towns, different populations, you know, so forth and so on, posting here and there. So it's a it's a process that consultant typically would help you right do and but but you know I think it would be good for us to have that timeline laid out so that as
we approach you know midsummer or as this process moves forward we know what the deadline yeah I did look at that um and so to drop dead date for to submit the bundle package with EF and B there's
September second due date um to what's called the environmental monitor. That's where it gets posted publicly for anyone to come in. But that's September 2nd. And um and then what would happen is it would sit in the environmental monitor and then on October 17th we would get
our letter from the secretary saying blessing us or cursing us blessing. Um that's the that's the latest possible submission. So if you back out from there, you submit what's called the environmental justice screening form and
that's the the form for the outreach by July 9th. And so I I talked to our it's kind of my last I was working with one of my environmental consultants just feeling out this process and you know she was saying it's probably about one to two months of work for a consultant
and very ballpark estimate 30 to 40 grand depends how much outreach we need to do. So it's pretty significant process. We you know we they um meepa did give us an example and e l but e it's a huge as
a we did that so I asked around my office for any mea experience and what they've gone through and very recently done it but positive is that from his experience me is very rigid with their time and and they're like clockwork with their responses and so you can expect
when they tell you you're going to either get your comments back or you're going to get blessed by the date that they tell you. So from a schedule wise that helps like to so that you're not waiting for something. Um the other being the EIR itself. The one I looked at was well over 150
pages 500 pages. We had to do probably 20 years ago we did something in we did consulting. Yeah. So I think you're kind of at this point we're still actively kind of trying to determine the best way to proceed here and what we do. But you
know I know Katie you have been carrying I think up to 50 grand in our budget like this. Yeah. I do have an update on that. We can talk about that as well. Yeah. One of the questions that I asked the the folks who made me
is can is there any way you can do this process without a consult? That's what it does basically. And the possibility is and Dan's been doing some of it is that we can do the expanded DNF the that part of the process ourselves and around
this table we have enough people that can help us fill that form up but we definitely cannot do EI. Now they said yeah this could been done before but it's very rare. So any is going to be of themselves involved. Yeah. So we may be able to peace meal it to try to save
some money or just call it AI AI she said they'll give us examples provide us some information a lot of the enhanced stuff if I'm not mistaken there's a lot of check boxes and stuff like that yeah it's very similar to the ENF which I've done those before we've
done in my office but so today Dan talked to consultant too I made another call today which I told Dan about to um on the envirment AL who did our phase one. So if you go back to the Omni environmental phase one report which we
have on our website that was a pretty comprehensive report. In other words, they went pretty deep already in the phase one. So I'm hopeful that Omni will get back to Dan. I I did talk he said he hasn't done one in about five years. So they don't do them often.
So it wasn't you know as good. But did you get the contacts that I had sent over? I did. I didn't see that. That's another option that we get just to kind of was there coming off of doing the warmth that was in Ont. Yeah. So I mean that'll be like the consideration right when we go to do
this I'll be switch I talked to Daniel we plan he has experience with this too but he said was a good firm that he had to work with in this when he was working in the private sector. Yeah, we have to put out an RSP. Um, but we can we can get it's over 10
grand has some flexibility consultants now. We can give a brief scope to each of them and give us a price for where did the proposed um yeah, what's
that? town the proposed form that they're Yeah. Oh, the one they gave us though and it wasn't like it wasn't the best of example if you go Yeah. If you go um I just curious I could show you on the environmental monitor. There's a
several submissions of this bundled package you can find but they said showed us more. Yeah. So I tried to use the logic which we talked about at the table that you know this is a a project that benefits the environmental justice community. It's a big approach to the town. It's a
municipal project. We're doing the best we can. We've done everything we had to this point in time. Oh, okay. That's good. Yeah. Who are we done everything well will help us eventually. the prestige because the
example she used was you know that's all good and um there's no this will never get a denial is what I'm getting at there being denied just got to go through it's just a process and and you end up with the conditions and you end up with you know so oversight some of
the questions she asked is an electric building we have to look at climate change traffic probably she said will be polluted because we don't have a traffic situation we're not creating real big traffic situation. It goes on and on and
on. Look at that. Think that you don't have to totally fill out because it's kind of mute. Well, you're going to check them off. She said, "Yeah, it's the type of project gets a benefit. We understand all that and you know, they'll
never get denied." So, we have September 2nd. We have to do this immediately. Yeah. Get some start. Yeah. So that's the way I would This is the first problem which was the notification. She said do it right away.
Yeah. So you know and um I think kind of preface to who we met with was a pre-iling um meeting and we're basically meeting with permanent agents. We're not meeting with their bosses who have a lot more decision making power. They're basically telling us, okay, here's how you permit it. Oh, you wanted an exemption probably
wouldn't work if you have to talk to my boss. So, we haven't, you know, done anything like that, but based on what we heard from them, like I mentioned already, it doesn't seem like a we'd be successful if we tried to work our way out of the group. Didn't sound that way.
No, but um yeah, I think more to come on that for now. And I and Katie are going to work with it with Robert as well. So, they kind of figure out what's the best way to do it. I'm
definitely putology. Okay. Because this would require more funds obviously when you last seeing turtles. I haven't uh Oh, actually no. I was on that recently. No. Is Is this the turtle you're looking for? Because I found one
of property. I don't think it was a Blanding. No, the ones you see mine looks like a snapper. Everywhere. Yeah, but he was in the middle of a 300 acre field with no water in it. I don't want babies. Um, okay.
So, that's a snapper. Endangered species. So, we've been over this one a lot. I did communicate with Steve Riy. He's a a contact over at God who's been helping us with natural hair because he he did the habitat. They're a good
option. Yeah. So, basically the the next steps as he sees it and this is kind of what we left off with natural heritage was having a coordination with natural heritage. They were called MA MISA mass and baby species act. They're the
primary group. So um we coordinate with them and basically at this point we could have an informal meeting show them our current schematic design and say okay what uh you know how's this look consider taping before we submit to you our our application to try to avoid
a tape. Um and that's kind of where we left off with them. So that's really the next step as far as natural heritage. The next steps after that are the rare plant survey which we can only do late July um to August time frame and the
mesa the actual filing of the permit of natural heritage. But I did uh leave a message with Steve and I wasn't clear yet on when you know can we just start filing this permit sooner rather than later but I think we probably want to have a coordination meeting first but um
but you know that'll get the clock I think on natural heritage day I think they have 90 days to to give a response letters that you come from that. Yeah, usually it'll say it's either uh it says there there's no take based on the way the design is and you're all set or it
says there'll be a prohibited take and here's your commissions and it may say you need a conservation management permit. So, you know, we've talked about that before. That's where we have to create um a 2 to one um land um
conserv six acres somewhere else in conservation. Um, so hopefully we're not head down that road, but obviously that would be us. It's usually that's usually for it's
it's not similar. Is it does it require planting? No, it requires um placing an area of land in perpetuity conservation land basically. It's like article 97 pretty much. I don't get it
because we're supposedly taking turtle. But if Oh, you're talking about turtle. Yeah. Yeah. The blazing the plants are not that big a deal. You'll be fine and we can move. Yeah. The
plants transplant, you know, on his fees pressure. What's his hourly rates? Does he have a separate? So, I I didn't know any. are still negotiating with them. Few questions I had, but I think it might be, you know,
at this point, it might be um prudent to at least move forward with what shown is task two on his is a list here with the Mason coordination. So, we can get a meeting with them with our current and moving towards
as part of the coordinated as part of the coordinated schematic design. Do we have or we need to gain greater clarity into how that how that schematic design could help us avoid a tape?
I think it was a misunderstanding. Our schematic design is drawn by Captain. Yeah. Right. They're going to look at that and and so you might want to just they just don't they can't imagine what we're doing in their mind have to see it I
guess and say based on that you know you've got a big parking lot here you know that's going to be impervious there's not going to be any turtles in there so is there some way other to run they may come up with they will definitely probably be about some conditions but they may even ask us to
build a turtle nesting area for instance some have on Yeah, we could be that. They could say that Spanish, you know. Yeah. But but I remember at the end of Right Road when they did they had to do the turtle mitigation because they found
some they found nesting sites in that area. But but it was in May. It was in the May early June time frame. Yeah. Not the fall. The plant the the
July August plant not the Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, we have a good report. Right. So, I think we've the the original habitat assessment is what
established that the turtles are there. I don't think we have to reservey for the turtles. If that's what you're getting at with the timeline, it's a map location. It's a map location. Yeah. It's not physically on our site. Yeah. Right. They're they're all around the site. So this the natural heritage is
saying well they're going to traverse across your site. You're going to have a pave party get get run over. put in mitigation like nesting site fencing is something they did in the past temporary protection during construction number we name the exercise
room like the blanding exercise so do we want to so your recommendation is that we go ahead and start the task to that's what I would say at least now is get at least an authorized taxpayers so we could have a meeting uh with
natural heritage the Mesa folks and now instead coordinating the schematic design and and you're com and we're comfortable with where we are in schematic design for the site plan to make that it's pretty well developed now yes
so before we do that or is it to um the last page in your packet was just the updated budget and for where we are right now and you guys are taking that over for the bigger total project budget but this is where we are right now. Um
and this is uh just adding on to what we've had before. So as you know there were two sources of funding. The blue um area is the ARPA funds and the sort of I don't know what color that is, orangey tan is the housing choice grant. And the
way that the accounting office does it is it's like a negative number and then you spend it down to zero. So rather than spending up to the number, but um so as you can see we have spent all of
the ARPA funds. We had 300,000 in the housing choice grant. We have uh at the bottom of that orange section 147,000 of that left. And then there is for the green part which is the UDAG funds we have
14,998 left in that in the that adds up to $162,18. We know that we have in the purple area. things we know we have are the $10,000 that is the last piece of
John's bill 103,000 and 32,000 left on the schematic design contracts with Vertex and Catelyn. Um and then so that's 145,000 of our 162. So we
have 16,000 in the dark green. Is everyone following my math? Yeah. Um, so there's $16,000 left unallocated at this point. So I would s and we have 5,000 of that sort
of hanging out for railroad permit fees that um and then a potentially $3,000 more to David E. Ross for the final um payment on the lot survey. So I suggest
that's 8,000 of that 16,000. I I I'm we have money for the $2,500 for the task two um to start that today. Just wanted to walk everybody through. We do have that money. And then when I look at all the other things in the yellow area that
are going to come up between now and town meeting and I sub that's 125,000. If I subtract out that 16,000 that's left, that leaves us about 110,000 that we need to request. If we're trying to
get all the environmental permitting done before town meeting, then we need to ask um the select board for $110,000 probably of um UDAG funds to get us from July 1 when our
grant is over and we have spent the funds anyway um to the town meeting. So I have suggested that number. have floated that number already um and there was no response of horror you
know to it. Um so we we want to so point one is I think we have money to authorize this um this first first step and the second one is from that we need to decide when we want to give an update to the select
board so that we can make sure that we're getting the next installment of this money in time for the next tasks of these permits in time. So if the madam chair, so if the if the
select board or town administration were to say um why don't you wait until after town meeting and pursue the environmental permitting and all the rest of it? What would our response to that? So my my suggestion would be that we'd
want to get as far along the way as possible so that we would understand if there's a take and what the accommodations are so that we can make accurate accommodations to the total project cost so that we can take an accurate cost to town meeting.
That would be my argument for why we should continue to do it in the in the interim. Um because like we said, it's not going to be a it's not a you can't do this. It's a matter of going through the process of the permitting and what accommodations would be necessary. The
natural heritage one is the wild card. It's more unknown. Are we going to have to do a conservation management permit or not? That's going to be pretty straightforward. Basically checking a box. It's gonna I don't foresee any issues there. But you know, you want to have them as much done as you can before you go to a town meeting. Well, but I I
would also suggest that from town meeting to actually bidding is lots of months, but they're winter months. So, whatever you need to do that needs to be done, the better one that needs to be done, but you have plenty of time to get our committee. Yeah. So, I think that is
a consideration. Don't don't don't feel pressed like be or whatever that thing is. Yeah. uh that could be done and you'll have money before
me to get out of the way. Yeah. Yeah. get a certificate get us example two way our millennials you're like I'll take as well once
the 1,163 is spent then there's no other restrictions on what you have here for this entire budget, right? Because we're also tracking this separately on another budget that we have as kind of our running budget be used and then anything that gets asked or awarded via your
grants also kind of be happy to turn this test totally over to you. That would be great. Um yeah, so the the 1,163 is all that's left of the housing choice granted and we'll spend it tonight if we authorize this. But then
the remainder of the um UDAG funds that there's no expiration date for that. And again, I think we're going to spend it, but um there's no no deadline for that. So, can I What do we think? Do we want to go ahead and authorize this task too
for $2,400 with the MISA coordination? Well, this one is that one. The first one's been authorized. That one I have saved. It's it's down here. Yeah. Yeah, I'll let me I'll make a motion to authorize task da coordination not to
exceed $2,400 estimated hourly um task for consulting. Second discussion all in favor. Chair says I wonderful.
Just the qualification should not we're also authorizing Dan to be the signature for that proposal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Wonderful. Okay. Thank you Dan so much. This is I know a lot of work and related to this
site and taking off too. Yeah. Thank you for the for all that work on national too. You're working again. All right. So different when you can't yell at people on the other end of the phone say just give them public sector work the private
sector works. Do we have a sense of what's up? We we might want to go to the select board and ask for something. Yeah, I think we're I think we're just goodbye guys. All right. Brian.
Oh, wait. Bye, Brian. I don't think it's working right now. It's temperamental. Um, okay. So, before we get to that, do we want to go through the latest total project costs and then then we'll have
all the pieces with which to decide that? I've got that. I have a note for that, Dennis, under our next meeting. All right. Sorry, I definitely need Oh, no. But we're just we're ready for now. And I know with the with the where we are in
time, I just wanted to give get this out to the committee kind of show you what the framework is that we're working on from a total project budget. We've taken what Katie has given us with the what we're calling pre-Town meeting budget and we're running that separately, but we know that we're going to need to start fleshing out the total project
budget for uh for our ask town meeting. Um there has not been much change. We've taken some numbers that the IT department has given us uh based upon some of the low voltage and some of the systems that are going to be bony in the building. Some uh audiovisisual capabilities, some of the security and
access control that's going to be needed. We started putting in some placeholders for that. We also have some placeholders in here uh based upon other soft costs. That would be project management fees. We have the fees for Catelyn for their construction administration and close out that we've
entered in here. But then we've also populated some items in here that we want to make sure that we're covered for things like um need for permitting uh any geotechnical services uh procurement for furniture and fixtures. Um and and I
as this grows and we start making other iterations, I'll I'll be prepared and I come with some larger some larger fonts and larger. Um the biggest thing that we're waiting on is going to be the cost estimate and that's going to be the biggest driver of this total project budget. It drives our
contingency numbers but also gives us our square footage cost. The numbers that I'm using are based upon kind of where we are in the market and what we're seeing for bids that have been received on similar projects today right now. So I took it at $850 a square foot, what what John's design is right now,
and that's the number I have plugged in for where we're at. Once we've received that schematic design estimate, and whether or not we go for another one, that would be the number that we use here uh and go forward with it. Um other drivers of the cost that we're going to be tracking down from once we receive
the estimate up until when the warrant closes are going to be things like um working with cabin for duration of what we feel is going to be the correct duration of construction on this. Is this a 14-month build? Is it a 16-month? That's going to play into construction
administration costs for time. um other things we're going to need to uh narrow down on. And their floor plans that they provided in the schematic do not have a a furniture layout yet. Um and so we're going to be looking for
some proposed furniture layouts, working with Katie about what's going to be needed in those offices and then going out and getting some some proposals. And so it's a it's a hard bid. What I have here is pretty much a lump sum similar and sorry to keep bringing it up, but it's it's similar to what we've used over in Middletown. they actually have
the hard cost of doing. So things like furniture, fitness equipment, um computers, networking software, things that's going to be procured by the owner that we have to have uh placeholders for. So don't be and this is a our exercise
here is don't be alarmed at these as the number at the bottom here. These um we're trying to be conservative. We're trying to make sure we have fun covered and then on a monthly basis we come through and we up this update this based upon any of the progress that we've had
on the sub costs. Um so hope is I have I have $850 in here. The hope is we are starting to see some with knock on wood without tariffs we're starting to see some softening of the market and some hunger out there with some contractors which is a good sign for for projects.
Uh and we hope to see that trend continue. So, um, this will be a document that we'll clean up on a monthly basis. We may hide some rows that aren't relevant, but we want to show kind of the evolution of what we started here all the way up
until we town meeting um, for ours. So, um, I anticipate putting on an agenda maybe some specific sections in here as we meet in months future. Um, and we really need to narrow down our FME search. this is what we've done here and these are the these are the costs that
we have and then we move on from there. So um any questions on how this is formatted and the it's a two-page document. I condensed everything into kind of larger um descriptions just from a you can see what where the buckets are
at this point and then the larger one is something that I use that I just wanted to be transparent and show everyone um where I start from when putting together this budget. So one question is so we're still at like 16.7 mil. Um at what point remember we
have Robert's memo you know the ask really should be around 10 million pound right? Yeah. So there was about I'm looking at Robert's memo now. It was about $2.1 million. It was it's um you know what
we'd have to try to take out of design. Yeah. So at what point do we start doing something out of design? No, I think just like amend that a little bit. It was $2 million out of the project, not necessarily out of the building alone. It's still trying to find a million and
a half. So 16.6 six and then he said 2 million from capital stabilization 1.3 from the CBP grant you have 1 million from you 200,000 year mark which kind of what he said you know this is all we're high
level that's what we do suddenly you're at 12.1 million so you can get $10 million excluded so all right when do we get another 2.1 million it's kind of like when we start hacking doesn't but if we get like if we get the 500,000
for the water design water construction water I'm sorry water construction that was that was in the 1 million caring a million dollars right so that's a big piece if we get it and then you know we have to look for other
grants as part of um I have a meeting with Robert tomorrow morning is where is the where is the grant writing responsibility going a lie. Um, we are hiring a new, you know, economic and community development person, but is it
reasonable to expect that that's going to be their area of expertise? Like, I'm not sure where that position had, you know, I haven't followed the rehiring. Oh, no. In that meeting, I think it was stated
that Robert was open to hiring a a specific grant writer for the purposes of pursuing grants for this project outside of comm the hiring of the full-time community and economic development person. It's a bonafide statement that the town needs a grant
letter all the time, not just this project. So no, but just to be clear that for the purposes of looking for money for us, it was clear to me that the town was open to hiring a grant writer for the express purpose of the
the the statement was made that they were willing to hire a grant writer for the CDBG grant, not on an extended basis to write lots of grants over the duration of this project.
So, previously Allan was in that role. Sorry. Um Allan was in that role. I just haven't I just haven't followed the hiring of the new person to know that they're going to start in July
1. So, I am just unclear whether that is the expectation that they would pick up and start doing that. We can confirm that tomorrow. Right. So, so I'm my point is that I'm following up with the town manager to see where does
the responsibility for that lie because if it lies with this committee then we need to start really dedicating a lot of time and effort to that like developing a grant subcommittee. Um, and if it is with the other person then I need to start spending a lot of time with them.
So they're likely to be s I mean given the redesign or the second look at how the electricity is getting to the site are there likely to be savings of the original estimate of I think it was a million dollars with like a ballpark. [Music]
So I don't I don't want to answer that exclusively. I wanted to talk about all the utilities to the site but and one of my concerns is that the uh I can't there's a lot of money and first of all I could comment on the fact that you're
calling it 10 documents probably original Bible so that that document for was a document that I summarized from two previous cap buildings I took the cost breakdown of
those two he provided to me the the cost of two other buildings and I summarized those for us and that's that's what that that came up to um within that and I'm presuming it's in your account cost the square floor of course is the site costs as well you know all the site costs I
really believe that this site is going to generate a cost savings because of the type of material that's there and the fact that it's going to be a breeze to build the thing everything is going to be easy on the site so I think we have money from the site aspect And I'm
very curious about how data it's bogy I guess it is right this is this guy estimates that site class so separately I have some ideas about what that what that is that I think you s agility thing just for clarification on on the way
you've um listed it here you got it it's your item 2125 but it's you call it out as utility company fees but in my work I called it out utilities being brought to the site. Yes. So, it's it's not the fees from the company, it's the actual cost to bring
them to the site. That's correct. So, we basically have that down to um no sewer because the sewer is going to be on site and that's in the site contract. Correct. Um so, in the original budgets, we had a possibility
of sewer. So, anyway, the 1 million four is what I I carried. Vertex is now thinking we can do it for a million. I think we can get a savings there. Well, but that doesn't leave us that much wiggle room though because if we know the water's going to be 700, it's not going to be 700. It's going to be
bidded. It's going to come in front of 700. Plus, we live at 700. Didn't you say there's 100,000 for the development of the storm storm? So, it's a max of six right now. There's 100 in there. It's okay. So, that in the world. Okay. So, when we
originally our 1.4 four number included something up to a million for electric. But if water is 600 and we're only carrying a million now we're we're even to meet this number we're banking that the electrical is is only 400. So I
don't know that but I think all I get worried that we're going to go through schematic design get the cost estimate high. Yeah. And then we're going to be like uh oh we're like $2 million short. So that do we just take the schematic
design which has already kind of been done and hack out some square footage. So that was going to be my thing is a number that large of a of a bus and making up you're not going to make that savings up by changing finishes and point you're talking programming and
you're talking actually reducing the Yeah. So you're going back I mean it's 22 sheets now it's kind of 16 sheets 16 million is that how new is that number because we were
at 16 before then we cut off we cut the same number 200 we cut 200 feet off the building we cut the core greater we I mean substantial I mean we added quite a bit to the IT infrastructure which was
a relatively small placeholder. The furniture and finishings also went up by a substantial chunk. There's a lot of variable, a lot of flux, some savings here. Maybe not there. I just, you know, do should we be doing anything at this time with our schematic design square
footage or we just kind of go and then approach it afterwards? Well, I think we approach it once everybody does he's going to break that out by division either format or CSI format. I'm going to be able to see what what he's carrying on square footage cost from it. We could compare that to
what you've done also, Ben, on previous estimates where you have that square footage by by division. By division. Yeah. um and I have those as well and we can see if there's any red flags on it and then we see what you brings also to the table for anything from a value perspective and hopefully in that point
we have some other options here and we have some decisions that have been made on another grants I mean the the other thing to you know the meeting with the select well and the the proposal that they wanted the bond somewhere in the neighborhood of $10
million um but that's I don't think a hard number then is if it has to be a number 10 8 or 11 perhaps because of X Y and Z. I mean it's you know so it's not I I don't think it's the case
that they have told us you cannot borrow more than $10 million. It's like kind of what we'd like you to shoot for I was going to say it's more from that memo. What's the opinion of the town manager as to what would be you
know a successful debt exclusion at town if you know no more than 10 million says it by that you it was driven by the by a thought that he brought in the treasurer involved he brought in other members of the town hall who financially involved and found out about our solid bond
rating and things like that. So it doesn't make it didn't make it a financial hit to the creditworthy visit the town bond rating or anything else. So there was a lot kind of back in. Yeah. But doesn't say it's an exclusive number to agree with you, right? Because
I mean I think it's though I understand and I think that the committee has been working in good faith in an effort to try to save the town money and the amount of work that Dan especially Dan and Ken and Katie have put in individually in Matt with the design. That amount of work has been
already a tremendous cost savings to the town. Didn't buy the land. That's right. So, but I think it's important for the committee to maintain the integrity of the building to maintain the integrity of the overall project and not sacrifice
that in the interest of trying to get something built. That is I think that we have a good case to be made that for the reasons you know that we can site this is what we think the building could cost and it will be worth it to the town to
invest this much. Hopefully that will come in somewhere close to where the select board wants us to be. Um, but you know, we'll see. We had a lot of disc I don't know how much time we don't have, but we had a lot of discussion about this already when the original design came in. We talked about how to simplify
it. But to back up what you said, anyone who's done construction knows, if you take 100 feet out of that thing, you don't take $850 a square foot times 100. It's it's it's an incremental savings because the bulk of the building
involves heavy HBAC, heavy electrical, heavy stem work, you know, the whole component of so you're down to try to shrink it, your savings are not going to reflect the 850 a square foot times the number of square feet that you turn into. And you I think the valid point is
that this committee has worked diligent diligently to provide the right activity space for the seniors and the right shape of the building. We all agreed on that, you know, as a as a committee that is going to make it work. What was the
size of Littleton that just got completed and the cost for that? Uh we were at 165 is the size. 16,500. Uh we did a different delivery method. We went CM at Britsville on that project. So it does come with a little bit of a premium. Uh construction cost
was around 141. Total project cost was 18 182. It was a bigger bill. A couple dollars build. Yeah. As this will be hope to see tomorrow. The ribbon cutting.
Oh, right. What's that? One o'clock. One o'clock. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Um Yeah. So this Yeah. Yeah. Right. And um obviously after that if if there's
a a real sticker shock or a gut check moment once we receive these numbers from folk I think we need to we need to huddle up quickly and we need to make a decision on what we are because as I'm showing here you know we are trending in the right direction around the number
that we originally told is based upon this things need to change the sooner the better is well and I think that's an important direction we need to take is with we when we have that $2 million gap. We thought we had addressed some of
it already, but we'll have to see are we going to try and change the project or are we going to try and change the funding and you know I don't have a clear answer to that. So um as a positive note hopefully you know we'll get the housing
choice second round. Um, I did hear verbally from the town manager's office that we did get the um $50,000 earmark from Representative Cena. So, that's available July 1st. That's available July 1st. Yeah. So, we're still waiting
to hear back um from um the senator. So, does that get infused right into our budget right now at that point? Yeah, as soon as it's available, it would it would be there. Um, you know, ideally we would like to be able to, you know,
portray that to the public as this is the cost of the building. We're bringing it down by this much. If we're using it for MEPA permitting, that permitting, well, you have 50,000 in this budget for the MEEPA permitting right now. I put that in
before we heard from Dan. So, I I took a side of relief once I put that in. that was based upon the Hopington price that was paid other things that we've done and some research that I had done. So to hear you say 25 to 40 made a lot more sense because that was not Hobington was
not a bundled submission. Okay. So yeah, exactly. So I think we can still it would be available to us right away. we will still be able to list it because if we're if we spent it on schematic
design, it doesn't come out of the total project cost. We still want to be able to say we're that that's is a savings out of the total project. So yes, because you're carrying that in the total project cost that we permitting, you still be able to say that. So then
we just need another, you know, million and a half worth of grants. Let me ask one question. Maybe this is silly that I'm asking this. The numbers that I'm carrying here for both vertex and cabin is contained in this total
project budget, right? So even the schematic design portion. So the $100,000. So then I think what we should be carrying then is the $300,000 of original housing choice. Yeah, that's a
bottom should be and and you have it here, but I'm not when I'm when I did the four page pamphlet, I didn't use the 300,000 housing choices coming out of the total project cost because I was thinking about it before that. So, what I found is the cleanest way to or in my
opinion, the cleanest way to get this and show the taxpayer what to ask is going to be is that we put this is what the entire project costs, right? And then below the line we have everything that we've done or achieved to date. Right? Therefore resulting in here's
your ask. Okay. And the 169 that I have right now contains or should contain your your multicolor. Right. So, so I think that's the important distinction
is that in Robert's memo, the 16.9 doesn't give us credit for the 300,000 or the 30,000. That was by intent. That was to be conservative. Agreed. But what I'm saying is as we're trying to narrow that gap, yes, we
shouldn't be shorting ourselves that because that is the gap is the way we want to do it. Yeah. We have total cost for everything. These are what we've already assigned some PL funds to and therefore our cost is already down to whatever the number is. Agreed. Agreed.
I'm just saying that when we're when Dan was reading the memo again and kind of gulping a little bit about that $2 million gap, the gap is $2 million minus the 300 housing choice minus the 50,000 year mark minus if we get the
500,000 for the onification. The total project cost includes everything that we're doing right now is what all that's what I'm saying is the total budget. Yes. All the money that's not coming out of the tax pocket is really important to show,
right? Agreed. Yep. Okay. What was the timeline for the hard? Uh well, we have to pay for it by June 30th. So, oh yeah, he didn't mention that tonight, but he's supposed to have
documents soon to them by around the 1st to the 1st of June and then they're supposed to have the next few weeks in June to do their work to get it to us by the third week of June. That's correct. Then we had that last week too to look at. And so one thing that Katie and I
have talked about is this project being unique that the goal is to go for the whole and July at fall time meeting for the ask is a potential second estimate to make sure that we're confident in the number that we're going forward with. I
have been working on a few other vendors to get that number that you have there radiated down just to make it to make it a little less sting if that's the if that's the route that we want to go. Yeah. And I do think there would be time that if that decision is made after we
get Fogert's number, we can still do we can still okay I can go out get a number get an estimate and then call Fry and say you owe us a phone call and we're going to do some reconciling here to be confident about the number that Okay. All
right. All right. Uh anything else financially? No. Okay. Um, is there actually before we go to public input, I well, this can go with our next meeting. Um, but I just as a reminder to everyone that the senior
center um and the building committee are having a booth at the um Devon's Food Truck Festival on May 31st. I believe it's from 10 to 4. Uh, I'm planning to do basically the same booth as we did at Newton Street where I
have the back wall with the drawings up on the back wall. Um, the friends are going to test out a market table to see if they can offload some stuff and make a little bit
of money as a test for doing it on the larger scale. Um, so, uh, the the goal with that is a booth at the Harvard, uh, flea market in October and working it through the senior center because we help people
downsize. And so, if you could downsize and with your stuff that you don't need, raise money for the new senior center, it's sort of a win for everybody. Um, so if anybody is available to um do it,
it's just between you and me, don't they? Um, can anyone work the booth with me? Even for No, no. May 31st, even for just an hour. What is it? It's a Saturday. I may be able to. Okay. Just depends.
something just drop by even for an hour or something because between if I'm the only person in there being able to collect money for stuff if the friends the friends are going to be there for part of the time too but it'll be a lot to be explaining the building and
collecting zodia and all that. Where is it? Uh it's on um Verbeck Field on Antidum the green. Yeah, it's No, no, no, that's No, that's Rogers field. So,
this is the one kind of behind Clear Path. So, it's not the lower fields that face out onto West Main. It's, you know, how uh up the hill from there, but before Rogersfield, so kind of squished in between there. There'll be lots of signs
out that day. So, thank you. If anyone can come, I can let me know. Okay. Um All right. Any public input? One scheduling question just um based on our work plan, we had scheduled another
building committee because we have to postpone last next week. Yeah. Um I don't know if it's if it's necessary. I know that we are probably going to need once we have updates when we have another talk with National Grid and National Heritage. Um, but if that's
something we'd want to postpone next meeting and and get back on track, we can do that. Um, and if there's anything that's really important, we can bring it up to you and pull the committee if there can be a quick meeting. So, that would bring us to if we skipped next
week, then that brings us to what is that? June 5th then is the next one. Yeah. Is that ever okay with everybody? Okay. All right. Um Pauline, you have
your hand up. I'm trying to unmute. I just I have to say this. I am absolutely astounded by the dedication you all have. I am exhausted just listening to your meetings. I can only imagine what
you all do to prepare for this. So, I want to thank you. Even though I'm not in agreement with everything, you really are a dedicated group of people. With that said, I think there's been a little bit of cart before the horse based on
the memo I read today and what I've heard tonight. I think maybe you spent money before you needed to. And I'm not going to take issue with that. I just want to share that as a thought process because I hear now we need more money for this and more money for this and we
need tests for this and tests for that and maybe we should have done that before we selected a site. That's just my thought on that. But really you all are doing a great job. I really appreciate it. Thanks Pauline. All right. Uh so next meeting June 5th 6
pm. Um, do I have a motion to adjurnn? Motion to adjurnn. Second. All in favor? I. Chair says I adjourned at 8:27.