Council on Aging Board meeting Wednesday, December 17th at 2:30 p.m. at the Air Senior Center. This meeting will be held in person at the location provided on this notice. Members of the public are welcome to
attend this in-person meeting. Please note that while an option for remote attendance and/or participation via Zoom is being provided as a courtesy to the public, the meeting/hering will not be suspended or terminated if technological problems interrupt the virtual broadcast
unless otherwise required by law. Members of the public with a particular interest in a specific item on this agenda should make plans for an in-person versus virtual attendance accordingly. This meeting will be live on Zoom. The public may access the
proceeding by joining Zoom meeting ID number 3754146055 or by calling 9292056099. For additional information about remote participation, please contact Carl Yentanelis, assistant town manager,
ATM at air.mma, us or at 9787728220 8220 extension 100 prior to the meeting. Call the meeting to order.
There's no any I'll take a motion to set the agenda. >> U Madam Chair, if I might, I'd like to kind of um I I had hoped to be able to get this to the select board from yesterday's meeting. This is the letter that we voted on last week.
>> Um >> do you want to just do you want to adjust the amend uh agenda to discuss that or sign it? >> Yes, why don't we do that? >> All right. So we'll address the agenda agenda to discuss the letter from the previous meeting. >> Um second
>> any other adjustments to the agenda? >> No. I'll make a motion that we accept accept the agenda as amended. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I
not there is >> but it was unanimous. All right. So, >> you have the floor. >> Um, so I I spoke with Bobby. Uh, regards to everyone. Uh, I read him the letter. He is fully in support of it. >> Um,
so, uh, I let him know that I was signing hisstead and initial it as. >> Um, so that's what I'd like to do. Um I know that um Marge had some concerns and was ambivalent about whether or not she
wished to sign the letter, which was fine. Um so u if I might >> I guess do you want physical signatures on it or are you good with just electronically signing? Are you going to submit it electronically to the board? >> No, no, no. I'd like to uh I'd like to
read it to the board and then have it submitted as part of their record. >> Would it matter? Do you think if there's personal signatures on it versus electronic signatures? Because if >> I don't, but I I I can sign for Bobby. I I I think I can sign for Cheryl.
>> I believe that Joel was in agreement on signing it. Yeah. >> Um I'll sign for myself. Um >> and then we can just I know that Katie had wanted to kind of dress it up. Well, I would take you up in your offer of
dressing this up a little bit with the >> with the logo. So, uh after the meeting we can sign it. >> We can sign it. >> Okay. I >> Anything else on that? >> No. >> Okay. All right. All right. So then we will move on to what the u the original
meeting was scheduled for which was continuation of the discussion of the 207 budget and particularly within the the three budgets the last one which was adjusting the budget downwards by the
time you sign. Sorry I don't know what that was. We now have the So it's 26,000 correct basically. >> So um just or just over 26,000 was
>> yeah the 10th let me just double check that that's the last one would have been last Thursday or last last we met on the nth >> yeah the 10th. Okay. Yep. Okay. Um All
right. So, what I did here since the last time we talked is that I shortened the explanation of level service. >> Um and then
I added the piece here. Okay. So, I corrected the math um to reflect $26,578 and then I added this paragraph that the total forecasted FY27 shortfall is $1
million. Since the senior center is approximately 0.7% of the total town budget, absorbing 0.7% of the shortfall would be a equate to a departmental reduction of $7,000, $26,000.
um and that reducing the budget by that much would create an undue burden on the department and require significant reductions in programs and services. Nonetheless, as instructed, here we are below. So, um I think that
again a the math is correct. B it points out that I am opposed to that. um so that I colorcoded um things that I thought were um the green ones are negligible
impact. The yellow ones are the ones that I think will have an impact but you know they also uh are substantially higher in value. And then I put things in red that I
thought were just complete. Um I do not endorse these at all, but these are the only way I can get there. So that's that 20% reduction in the meals program, which would be going from 4 days a week to two days a week. I added the
additional sentence about um not only is that increased food insecurity and greater isolation for you know as the impact to our most vulnerable older adults but reduced participation in in in the senior center uh I'll I'll reword
that reduce participation in the programs that are adjacent to lunch as well. So because people often come in for lunch and stick around. So if you reduce the number of lunches, you're going to reduce the amount of like I would call adjacent participation.
Um so in the last sentence in that first card in red, you'll want to get rid of one of those participations, I think. >> There we go. Um, so then the only other way I could find
that extra $9,000 would be to not give myself a contractual increase in my salary and to not give any of my employees, my union employees a their contractual increases.
That adds up to $9,000. That seemed like a better solution than um eliminating a position or cutting somebody below where it was living wage for them. Not that not that we pay them extravagantly
anyway, but to the point that it would cause problems either getting the work done or um keeping the employee. So it's obviously a violation of both contracts to do that. Um but that's the impact
>> also with regards to you know elimination of and I agree elimination of a position or whatnot is not the way to go. >> That being said also too is it's you couldn't eliminate one too. What would happen if you eliminated the nutrition
coordinator? You couldn't serve >> right? we wouldn't be able I mean you'd be reduced down to two days a week but that would be a significant um responsibility for Marielle and RI to pick up right >> um and I and I I do have to put out the
disclaimer that >> this is supposed to be an exercise this is supposed to be a scenario this is not what version draft one of the budget >> will be either scenario one or scenario two it will not be scenario three this
is um designed as an exercise to be used should all the other variables go in in the worst direction um further on in the budget process because the budget is a process. Yeah, I was I wasn't No, no, no. I just I have to put this in there for that sort of
joint. >> The town is still a step, right? >> H >> your the town is a step >> for reason. >> Yeah, there's a there is a matrix. Yeah. So each position >> is um based on what's in the job
description, it receives a grade >> um of based on its responsibilities. And then there are 10 steps that go with each of those. And so um per both the personnel contracts and the union the clerical union contract which is where
my employees fall that provided that they have a satisfactory personnel evaluation at the end of the fiscal year they will receive a step increase >> um from one year to the next which is this. And then should the town vote to do cost of living increases that's
there's that too. So this is the one but not the other. Is it still based on how many years too? >> Well, indirectly it it is based on that. So, you would get hired in somewhere in that range of 10 steps.
>> And then it's after your after you have been evaluated satisfactorily, you will get evaluated satisfactorily once a year. So it's it is essentially each year of longevity in the position but it
is technically written as if you have received a satisfactory evaluation. It was a once a year thing. >> And so the um if you total up all the deductions in the green, yellow and red, >> the number is
>> the number is I want to say it's $26,100. >> Okay. I think it's about $400 off. >> In order to be in compliance with the 10% reduction, should it occur, all of these would have to go into effect. >> All of those.
>> Okay. >> So, just a couple of thoughts. The decision as to whether or not the town wishes to violate contracts is well beyond our per
right. What I would say to the wage issue is that should the worst come to pass in the view of the town manager's office whether or not department heads should be asked to forego their annual step
raises or cost increases or whatever I think should be a group exercise that is I do not feel comfortable with you volunteering your
increase to be cut >> right >> without every other department head also foregoing that >> um >> you know that's a >> so and I don't know how you >> I'll explain that already >> so I think then the question would be do
you want me to not put this in here then and then we find another 9,000 or down or some other way. >> So I mean the only other place you're going to pick up that big a number would be alternatively would be to eliminate the nails program totally.
>> Correct. I mean >> or program you use again. >> Yeah. >> Um take a couple more of those out. >> Yeah. So the program budget is only $10,000 total. So I I can't find there's
I mean I could get rid of all programs and that would be $7500 more. >> So I'd still need to find another >> $2,000. I mean I I think Yeah. >> But when you did like the karaoke the other day, people liked it.
>> They enjoyed it. >> Right. >> Simple karaoke. >> Right. But I purchased a karaoke and now you've got it. >> Right. Agreed. Yeah. So, but that's if you had no program budget, that would mean no speakers, no lunchtime
entertainment, no uh the supplies like the flower for this program and the mason jars come out of that budget. Um we wouldn't be able to do any of those things. Um that would be that would reduce us to
um that would reduce us to fitness classes. cribage, bingo, and knitting. >> So that I mean that's an alternative. That's what we're here to do today is talk about alternative things.
And this um has has Robert sent a a a memo clarifying his request or is it are we still basing your response off his original memo that we >> I asked some questions at the department
head meeting. Um but the official >> correspondence is you have not had your meeting with them yet. >> Right. So, this is due on the 29th and then sometime in January I'll have a meeting >> and
and again that the the the tone of the conversation about it is please remember that we're this is an exercise. This is scenario number three modeling it. I just don't feel comfortable
treating it as though it was as though it was nothing, right? and just throwing something in there because we're going through this exercise which says to me that there is at least some piece of possibility that cuts substantial cuts will need to be made
even if they're not 10%. So I just don't feel comfortable >> I don't was something I couldn't stand by in February. >> I don't disagree with you. I think you need to go through with the exercise and whatnot. I guess that being said too is is
is alternatively would also understand if they says well you still have to come up with the 26,000 Katie and you know contractually you are obligated to pay those increases so what would your alternatives be so you need to at least
have identified and figured out on >> um and you're right that goes to eliminating programs that probably that you would pay for and probably eliminating another day off of >> lunch, >> the meals. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I mean, I would see if we could >> So, if I eliminated the entire program's budget and then I that would still that would be 7,500 of the roughly
9500. Um, so I would still need two more thousand. I guess I could do a uh another 20% reduction in the supplies budget. >> Um well, okay,
>> but we with your supplies as teachers, we didn't get supplies. I'm just talking out of the blue. >> Mhm. >> But there was a warehouse out in Worcester
>> that was open and we could go get >> one time a year. We could go get paper office supplies. >> Right. Right. And and that is and that there's actually a version of that over
in Devon's now. Um the vast majority of the general supplies that I purchase are not um office supplies. We don't we just don't use a lot of office supplies here. >> They tend to be things that um
things that break things that um like when the receptionist chair wasn't suitable anymore, we replaced the receptionist chair. when almost all the receptionists were cold because of
there's no vestibule here. Um, you know, we bought that little heat shield thing there. So, that's an example of something that comes out of the general >> supplies. So, you >> we can certainly ask for donations. I just have always had a little bit of
trouble asking a group that is largely incomerestricted, not all of them, but many of them income restricted to be like, can you donate paper towels? Can you donate No, not to the scene, but like at school, >> right? >> Had a given tree. >> Mhm.
>> That anybody could get could take off from, >> right? >> At the church, at the town, >> right? Um >> grandparents, anybody could >> Yeah. Uh and where was it located? Um,
we made it known in the newsletter and we had it on the bulletin board in the school. >> Mhm. >> But it was also listed online. >> Okay. >> That these are the things each teacher
needed. >> Well, because we had to buy it on paper. >> Yeah. Um I I think before we get to >> but I'm just before we get to how
how we would fill >> the loss of the funding, we would want to determine whether or not the funds are in fact lost, >> right? Um, so
I don't I mean to look at the budget to look at the town budget and it seems to me that the purpose of this exercise is to allow the town administration to identify the lowhanging fruit
>> that they will be able to access over all the budgets um and have the department heads identify that lowhanging fruit. >> Um I I think that you have what's in it? The the water bubbler and a couple of
other things. >> Yeah. Yeah. Those are things. >> Yeah. So So that and I mean it's a a relatively small amount of money, but I guess for our purposes that would be our lowhanging fruit. >> Mhm.
>> Um as for the rest of it, I think we have to >> still an exercise we have to go through. >> No, I know. And I think she has that ends up in 26. >> Um, >> but we've got two items in there that are essentially
>> illegal or in violation of something. So if we're looking to say no, that's for us that's not you can't do that. What are we going to replace that with that? of what >> well that the decision whether or not to break the contract which I you know I
don't think that they would ever want to do >> is is well beyond us >> um the so where would we find another nine as a as an intellectual exercise where would we find another $9,000
>> that's what we're looking at >> um >> and that's like you've gone and reduced the catering to two days a week from four to two days. In theory, that would give you another $8,000 or $8,400 if that was half of it. If you eliminated it in
total, same thing is I'm not saying that's what you should do or anything else like that, but that's >> and the people that use Jay afford to go up a little bit in their payment.
>> We don't I don't see any of that money. That's not a revenue source. Oh. Um, those payments are made directly to him at independent contract. >> You don't pay Jeff. >> I do pay Jeff. >> And I guess what I'm asking, can they
subsidize Jeff a little bit? >> Um, I mean, yes, but I don't think it would be in meaningful ways. He teaches five classes. one, two, three, four,
five, >> five classes and we pay him around $6,000 total for all of that for the entire year. >> So, um it it doesn't make a it doesn't
make a meaningful I can't not pay him, right? So, if I were to pay him >> 10% less or something, I I'm not going to make that much of a dent in it. It sounds to me like the alternatives
um are, you know, cutting the meals program entirely >> or >> Yeah. >> Or it is cutting programs entirely and then
and an additional uh supplies cut. both of those or some combination of both of those, right? >> All three of those. >> No. So, if you wanted to if you wanted
to if you wanted to reduce it to one day a week, right? Like if you wanted to take another $8,400 off, >> you could take another $8,400 off of the meals program, right? Or you could or
you could reduce the the program budget again and the supplies budget. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So the 8400 is that for one day >> for a year?
I calculated that based on um I believe check my math there. >> I just presume that it was two days since we said we went from 4 days to two days. So yeah, so it's it's calculated on um
that is calculated based on let's see >> that's calculated on yeah taking two meals out a week >> sort of so you go to zero >> so but there's some efficiency there's
more wiggle room in that number because some of our meals are $75 for pizza and some of our meals are 425. So there's a lot of variety in there. So, >> okay,
>> trying to make a I tried to make a percentage reduction based on the idea that we would need to >> we would need to make cuts not only to the types of meals but to the frequency of them in order to make it work. It's
not a >> it isn't a one for one. It isn't a one for one. >> So, you would be looking at perhaps retaining one day a week. >> Yeah. I mean, um,
>> you know, if you were able to kind of juggle things a little bit >> because it's not just the it's not just the meal cost, it's also the paper goods cost that goes with it. >> Yeah. Well, we can eliminate the the
special and just use the plain white ones, right? Does that save you some money? Yeah, I mean it does save it does save some some money. But I guess what I mean is >> if I'm ordering um you know like a thousand forks
because I have to order a box of a thousand forks that will last me much longer if I'm not serving as many meals. >> I have to order that box of a thousand forks many times over. >> And you could order that in 26. So you wouldn't have to deal with it in the 27th. >> That's not allowed. Oh, they got to know
if you've got extra forks, gate, >> financial policy violation. >> So, how does um walk us through how the process unfolds from here? So, you submit your response to Robert's memo
>> by the 29th. >> He then has received all of those from throughout the town. Mhm. >> He then crunches the numbers, looks at his Excel spreadsheets, and then does what?
>> Then he'll have individual meetings with each department head to talk about their budgets. Um, so was it last year or was it the year before when I had put in the money for the additional exercise? I think it was last year.
>> Last year. And then so I had put in that money for the additional $2,500 for the exercise person um into my budget. I met with Robert. He said, "I don't think that's going to work. Take that out." So
there was >> tweaking at the town manager to department head level. Then those things that became draft one of the budget. So, I'm sure he knows going into those
meetings, >> does he have based on last year's budget and anticipated increases, >> you know, whether he's how much wiggle room he's got >> and when is when is draft one when does that happen? I mean, I know that there's a meeting there's a public there's a
public barrier. >> Yeah, >> I think that's after draft two. >> No, there was a draft one and a draft two. Mhm. >> Uh last year they did not do two budget forums. They only did one because very few people attend them and they're
mandatory evening meetings for us. So um >> yeah I would encourage well I mean I think there should be I think there should perhaps should be too that is again and we talked a little bit about this last time but this the budget
process is inherently a political process. I would like to think that these budget conversations are kind of centered around the notion of how can we do the
greatest good for the greatest number or how can we cause the least amount of harm to the least amount of people >> or how can we most efficiently that is the town. How can the town most efficiently spend its capital for the
greatest benefit to the residents of the town? I would love to think that that's the case. >> It's not. >> It's not. We know that. >> So the the question will be where is the political will to do the
thing to do whatever it is that the political will wants to see done. Um and I think to some extent that will fall on the members of the board and the members of the senior community to attend the budget forums and to again
assuming that there is some level of reduction somewhere um that go beyond our lowhanging fruit. Oh >> yeah. I guess you know it's also too is to get you're right and to give
everybody those similar to what did the new center is to give everybody the same talking points >> that if you're going to cut that congregate meal again you're going to take that away you're going to go down one day a week you're taking away programs is what is that going to do to
the seams in the community? How is that going to really impact them with food security and those types of things? That's right. So, it's also understanding how to present back and to answer questions that says, "Yeah, okay. Yeah, I understand. We had to put this
forward." However, doing this severely is going to impact that community that can take it the least. >> Yes. And and and that that message, I think, has to go to the select board most most prominently. Um, and you know,
and to Robert as well. Um, >> well, it's got to go to everybody. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the at the end of the day, >> Yeah. >> at the end of the day, >> the town manager, >> the select board will need to to be able to to approve the budget
and, you know, these cuts are okay, those cuts aren't. >> We have to have we have to be in the those cuts aren't okay. Yeah, the food security is crucial here. It really is. I
>> I can't speak enough for what >> I I don't disagree and that's that's sort of going to be what's >> how we get back to it. But >> but in order to meet the requirement of what was asked,
>> right, >> you've got to consider everything, right? And my thought is is all right. So we've got some violations of the contract and and well yes I >> and you don't want to see it happen and that returns is is that are am I going to say is that's taking the easy way out
>> and I you know so I guess looking >> I don't I don't know I think my preference would be to turn it in like this. >> Okay. And >> then are you the >> group? >> Right. Right. And and let him say, "No, you can't turn it in this way." And then
I'll say, "Okay, well, I'll get it back to you by the end of the day, and I will have our alternatives." >> We went three years without a race, >> right? >> But >> well, and that's that was what happened, >> right? But I think to Dennis's earlier
point, I think that's a decision that h should be made across the board. I don't think it's a decision that >> we should offer up. So, but I'm only offering it up because I can't in good conscience. I wouldn't have if if we moved to our alternatives,
right? Where we had a 40% reduction here and a 50% reduction there, right? And and a 40% reduction here. All three of these would be red. So I would have three yellows, one I mean three greens, one yellow and three reds.
>> So I I almost feel and again it's supposed to be an exercise but this is more balanced >> and my my hope is that by presenting it this way, you know, maybe the first four go
and then it's like, yep, okay, COA did their part and move on. um versus only having these here and and saying, "Well, that's not enough. So, you're going to need to pick one of these red ones." You know, I I don't know. I don't
actually know how it work because again, it's supposed to be just a scenario and it's a scenario until it's not a scenario, >> right? And there may be low hanging and to Dennis's point to yours as well too, there may be low hanging fruit in other budgets >> in your contract. The raises depend on
is everybody else getting a raise in town? >> Yeah. >> Well, yes. Everybody who gets a satisfactory >> Right. Right. But I mean we all have as teachers but we went three years because >> was it then it would not have been in your contract contract. They're all
under >> I know. I know. I hear the backwards but >> principal didn't get it. The >> nobody got one. >> Right. Well, so I don't know. I I couldn't speak to how those are negotiated, but these are in a >> and we were steps >> threeyear contract
>> stop the steps, >> right? So I think that would be that's almost like a contract negotiation point which is way above any of our pay grades like how that would work but >> I don't think you could stop giving contractual increases in the middle of a
contract. it would have to happen when the contract is renegotiated >> or a hostile renegotiation of the contract. But again, all of that is way beyond beyond me >> in your com >> I
I said this earlier. reiterate. I don't I don't think you should be offering up your annual raise in your conversations with Robert or in the >> So then would you want me to take So are you then suggesting that I take this out
and offer up really much more substantial cuts here is you >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So the 2031 is is your specific contract? >> Yes. Yeah. The only place you could do that is
fewer programs or the >> So you would suggest that I take these out and offer more substantive cuts here. >> Well, I I would suggest that you take out that the middle one, >> the 2031, right? >> I also have to take I can't I can't
propose we cut my staff without cutting. >> Those got to go together. >> No, you can't. No, you cannot be a leader. You cannot be a leader, a boss, and take away yourself if you're not willing. >> If you're not willing to take this cut yourself, >> you can't do I think they're
honest with you. In past years where where I've worked and whatnot, management often they've been getting increases or whatnot, but staff. >> That's why I said my principal didn't get raised. You didn't get >> you take them both out
>> with $9,000. >> You're still left with the $9,000. >> 9500 probably pretty bad. That's about >> 95. >> Um, >> so I either have to find 9500 or I need to find 7500. I really think
the two should go together. We either think I agree with you, >> right? So they either need to be so we would have to find 9500. The only way to find 9500 is to eliminate this budget entirely
>> which it and then take another, >> you know, >> another meal out. >> Another meal out. But the so eliminating the program budget brings you to what? That's about it. >> 7500 additionally. Yeah.
>> Can we work on more grants for programs if we >> so so here? Yes. >> And now you say we use the general, >> right? So yes, but those low dollar
value grants that are for a program here and a program there, um there aren't as many sources for them. Um and like the cultural council I submit for like four programs a year and they fund two of
them and you know they they don't love that we don't have a huge audience even our 20some people um you know there's conversation that goes back and forth like those aren't givens um about
whether they'll fund them or not. Uh, and I have said, well, I mean, that's all the space I have here. Like, I can't serve lunch to more than 24 people with a performer because even in that back spot, they can't see the performer. Y >> and then they talk on top of the
performer if they can't see them. >> Um, I can't seat any marginally any more people over here for lunch with >> with a performer. So the the space is this one is squarer, but there's just a
lot more junk in this room. >> So that's just a reality. Um it's hard it's hard to get it's hard to get grants when part of the grant application is demonstrating the impact of the grant.
And when you're asking for something that's several hundred that will benefit at most 24 people, it's hard to show the impact. So yes, it can be done. Uh, I also want to be mindful of the fact that I'm any time spent grant writing, I'm really trying trying to do it for the
building right now for this upcoming year. Um, in another year, sure. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Um, I also Yeah. So, >> yes. Yes. Um, I just don't know how successful it
would be. And it's not clear that that money would be guaranteed or in place by the time the end of April rolls around. That is the grant >> a little bit. Yeah. So >> yeah, >> again I think that this we cannot we
should not now be discussing how are we going to fill the hole. >> The question before us is is there a hole and how big is it? >> Mhm. >> Okay. at at the end of this process, you
know, depending on the answer to those questions, we will then be what steps can we take to fill the hole that >> once we have the budget back that we know is what can we do to >> the other thing I would say and I think if there are or suggested department
head givebacks or union contract givebacks that the town would like to pursue. Um, well, this isn't for you, Katie. This is I think for the board. Um it's that all the town unions >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> are go there. That is it would be grossly unfair for um the mugganized employees here at the center to give back or full go or whatever. >> And I don't think anyone's really
suggesting suggesting that. It's just a matter of does this satisfy the requirement because again the budget directive says if you don't turn it in this way then you will get your 10% cut. >> Does this even if it's not super
realistic does it satisfy the assignment >> right >> and keep the other things intact. >> Um so what different new contracts are there in town? Do you know? Gosh, I want to say I don't know exactly, but I want to say like six or
seven. Okay. Um because there's the clerical union contract, there's the public safety people have their own thing. Um >> I think the PW people have their own contract. Uh like they're a different union that they belong to. They don't belong. >> But the public safety people probably
belong to two or three different unions. >> They may. Yeah. Firefighters. >> Yeah. Actually, I feel I can probably answer this. So >> you'd rather have control of your what what is being put? >> Um >> Mhm.
>> There is the APOA dispatcher contract. There's >> um each individual person's contract. There's the clerical union contract. There's communications oper Oh no, that's a person.
Uh there is the DPW union. There is >> it police a popa a poa there's uh police superiors union. There's
>> uh yeah so the rest of these are and this is where like this is always transparent like what every person in town hall in makes is here. Um but there so there's four or five then. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So there's a couple of different unions and so they're all um negotiated differently. >> Yeah. >> They have different different times they're dealing and all that stuff too. >> Yeah. >> Sorry, I just realized I'm not sharing
this. >> That's okay. >> Um well I guess there's nobody on Zoom so it doesn't matter. This is just our conversation but um okay so so then can I come back to this? So Dennis is suggesting that I should not
put this forward with this in it and I should put the other cuts. >> Yeah. >> What do you guys >> I agree. I don't think the bottom two for sure and
I would really dislike seeing be the top one the reduction of meals. >> Mhm. >> Because I see what >> So then where would we where would we take the money from? That's what I'm saying. >> I know.
>> So that's $17,000 you got to make up. And you guys have the from the last one that you have >> we know what those accounts are. So um
>> why are so well could we do something of the week most of my body? Could you or would you consider doing like leaving your green and your yellows up above but then doing two scenarios
for the for the rest of it? Like okay so here one scenario here which gives you the the bulk of what you need >> is >> taking away two steps of money and doing no increases. This also goes to show the limitedness of your budget in some respects,
>> right? Than staffing to >> I don't think I want to do both because I think it's just I think it's confusing. >> Okay. >> Um cuz I was just going to do that
saying look to get that 26,000 scenarios >> you know but to get that 26,000 this is really what we need to do. Yeah. >> But you know, if I do this, you know, you you're really decimating
the center. >> Mhm. >> Either way you are, but you're sort of showing it >> the alternatives in that respect side by side >> cuz I kind of I kind of want this and
for them to say, "Well, of course you can't cut that 9,400." So, you know, and then you're going to lose the center. >> Agreed. Agreed. So, that's what but that's that's the hard choice here. And again, it's it's supposed to be an exercise, >> right?
>> And if it's just an exercise, >> my thought is >> let someone tell me no to the $9,400. >> Is that total? >> It is. >> And it is a gamble. So the the total budget for the for the center is 251 or
2. Yeah. >> Okay. So >> but you have to add to that the step contract this the um increases >> the agreed upon increases for next year. >> So the so if we leave sal if we say salary and
wages cannot be touched right. Well, no. So, so that was the mixed messaging that I was inquiring about and I and I got the answer which was it's up to the department head to figure that out. All right.
>> So, so it wasn't it >> it wasn't that. But yeah, >> but for our purposes for this exercise, if we say >> Yeah. >> 2%. >> No. If we say that we're not touching the salary and the wages, um that is we're taking the bottom two
lines out of the red lines out. >> Uhhuh. >> Right. So that's $158,000 that we will not touch. >> Mhm. >> All right. Well, it's it's 158 plus. >> No, I understand.
>> Uh, just bear with me. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, if we So, if we start at 262, if you add in the 12 12,000 or whatever. >> Mhm. >> And you can't touch 170 of it, which is
the wages and salaries with the contractual increases. >> So, what is that? That's that's um it's 8176 and 13 is what I can't touch >> difference between you and the town.
>> So that's so that leaves the total that leaves the touchable part of the budget at $92,000. >> It's >> give or take. >> It's um >> you know >> it. Yes. Okay.
It's an employee that was hired at the end of the fiscal year that apparently was not supposed to get a step increase >> in 25 or 24 >> in 26. >> On 26 okay
>> which I didn't know about I didn't understand that. Okay. Had I understood that, I would have hired that person one step higher rather than making them go 16 months without a pay increase.
>> So I honored the pay increase that I that I had marketed to the person when I hired them. >> I found that elsewhere in my budget. I squeezed other places to make sure that
I could do that. So therefore, that difference is what >> numerically looks like two-step increases for that person. It's really one step increase over where they were. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. >> It was my mistake,
>> but I wanted to honor what I had promised. So >> So the So they going to hold you to the two I'm sorry, Dennis. I just want to make sure they're going to hold you to the 265 and not the higher increase. No, the 251 plus the 13 is the 265. I
went ahead with the higher >> increase. >> All right. Oh, in reality would really be >> I went with the higher. I thought it was 9,400. It's really 13,000 because >> because it was
>> because I it moves from one line to the other. So I I went with the higher number to come up with this 260. >> What if we kind of simplify the process? >> If again the total town the total budget for us is
251. If if you don't add in the increases if you add them in they're 263 give or take. It's 265 D. Salary and wages are about 170 of that give or take. Mhm.
>> So, and those are the untouchable amounts. >> Mhm. >> Which means that $92,000 total is the touchable amount. >> Mhm. >> And we have to reduce that by 26,000.
>> Mhm. So your job is to figure out how you can operate the center for a year on 66,000 posts. >> And and I can't equal opportunity cut all of those things because if I'm
in a contract, I'm in a contract for my rent. I'm in a contract for my housekeeping services. I'm in a contract for my senior center. So, >> so I can't So, it's I can't make >> across the board $26,000 worth of
reductions to this $66,000. It's really >> far less than $66,000 which is why we've come to this point. >> That's I think the exercise that is >> so you take whatever that's >> that's what I've done. No, but for us,
for this conversation, >> instead of saying where could you cut, where could you cut, where could you cut, the question is, how do you operate the center on $60,000 for the year or whatever the number they ask? >> 66.
>> Well, 66 minus all her contractual obligation that she can't use. >> Oh, wait, wait. So, you're saying what's the number that's touchable? 80 >> 92 >> 92,000. and you have to take 26 out of that. >> Yeah.
>> Which means you're left with 66 give or take and you're left with less than 66 to your earlier point because you're contractually obligated with XYZ. So, so >> what are your are do you know your flat
dollar amount of your contracted type of >> Yeah. So, um let's see. So >> like my senior center just and um
okay so six n it that's about about $10,000 if I had to guess. That's that's roughly roughly $10,000 in contracts.
>> So, I mean, and again, just for the purpose of the exercise and the ramifications of being required to go through it, >> um, we could suggest something like, we are now asking the senior center
director to operate her senior center for something on the order of $56,000 for the year. That is what, $2,000 a month? A little over.
>> Would it be better for the seniors if we closed the center for 6 months a year? >> Well, you can't do that. Oh, well, I'm sorry. Go ahead. So close the center or two six months or three months or whatever the number turns out to be so
that you can then have a marginally more robust programming during the rest of the time instead of being a skeleton for all the time. Um >> so what do you end up with the staff that >> No, I'm not advocating for the No, I know that's the problem.
>> So that's that's how you could potenti that's how you because we're we've left the contractual increases out of that, right? So that's These budgets are always a bottom top whatever I call that bottom up but bottom bottom line budget.
There you go. Bottom line budget. So I'm not supposed to move things out of salaries or wages, but I can move through services, supplies, you know, and and programs. So that is ultimately what would happen is if if the
department gets slashed by however much it does then it will be my job to go back and say okay this is how much I have how will I distribute that so it's this is the exercise for this case and
this is how I think I would do it >> but that's what would ultimately have to happen is I would have to go back and say okay well how much money do I have now. How do I divide that up? You could close the center on Friday, for example.
But that doesn't do much except save you from not having a meal because you we haven't cut the salaries on Fridays, right? Like we can't cut the salary. >> So then you've eliminated a place to drop in. limited a place to do exercise
that wasn't costing >> are you really much of anything, >> right? It doesn't really save that much. Um, and older adults are often creatures of habit. So, when you make changes to the routine as far as closing for some
period of time, it really interrupts the flow of things and the dependability of it. But that is what would happen. So, you'd have to go back, if cuts were made, then I'd have to go back through and really take a look at everything and go, what what's the most popular? What's
the least popular? How could I cut this? Can I get rid of this? You know, um, >> right? But for policy purposes, the question would be, do you operate >> do you open it and operate with less throughout the year or do you close it
and have a more robust program for some portion of here and which is better for the community or which kind of would be the greatest good for the greatest number of people? And I'm not asking for people to answer that now, but >> Right. Well, I mean, I could pretty
uniformly tell you staying open. >> You can't you can't run the town office some months and not others. Like, it wouldn't be a predictable or reliable service. >> That's that's a that's a very common
sense efficiency except that I would still owe the rent if I wasn't here for that month. I would still, >> you know, all those things. So, um I don't think you could do that. I I think the answer would be no, you can't. If you could make consistent reductions in
hours in your in your weeks, but they would you'd need to be fairly uniform over time. >> Yeah. But I think people are just looking for a place to come. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. >> So, you would want to try to keep it
open year round on 56,000 is would be the preferred choice. >> All right. Yeah. Yes. >> Okay. You know, I think also too as Dennis says, I mean, the town's people just agreed to build a new center. You can't now say, "Okay, we're going to build a new center, but hey, we're not
going to be open all year round." >> No. No. I I understand. And that's again part of the political calculus >> which bolsters Katie's case in my view in her conversations with Robert that it
is political. It is politically, you know, tenuous to now say for Robert or the select board to approve t cuts to the programs that the town's people have significantly voted to support not only
in its current form but also in a future form which is going to cost you know quite a bit more money >> unless those cuts are across the board at all you know at all >> you know from the every department does it and like here's where the friends friends was friends was a more
established stronger group. This is where they would come in and fill that void. Like I >> But they can only fill that void after the void is >> after the void has already begun. >> Yes. True. >> Um All right. So, >> but I do think you you probably should
just try to eliminate some programs, keep the dropins going, >> right? >> Yeah. I mean, I I definitely already have a 25% reduction in the program. So, >> right. I know. We see that. But even if you had to drop a little bit more
>> Mhm. >> what I, >> you know, um, >> anything that you can do to keep those meals for the people that come in for them >> because that is I hear so much
This is my meal. I'm not cooking tonight. I'm having no yoga. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> I'm having no yoga. >> This is all I can do. >> Um, >> no, I think it's a huge part of what we do here. It's probably the single most
important thing that we do here. >> So, showed by how many people >> come to those. So, I I don't disagree. >> Yeah. you know that when we look at it that's that's one of your larger numbers though other than >> sal
right right and I just I unfortunately >> I can't cut any one position entirely contractually I really can't cut back their hours any more than I can than I can cut their increase right so those are kind of one and the same in the
sense of >> so just to use like the nutrition nutition because you know nutrition coordinator is you if you're still serving some of those meals you still need them here >> right you were still serving on the other three days you still doing the
congregate meals or is those are those >> yeah we still have we still have Monday and the Fridays where we're not serving >> our catered meals we still have the congregate meals and I mean it's a very small scale >> but did you mean the cater meal or the
congregate meals So congregate meal is the me is the term that have been used um for anytime people are congregating together right but we have our catered meals which are our restaurant meals and then the mock supplied meals.
>> So the mock meals are congregate meals. >> So I I tend to say congregate meals for the mock meals because I think of that as the old model. >> Um but our meals are either catered or they are mock provided. >> Got it. But I don't think three days a
week you need to have this fancy of the cater. >> People don't care. I mean, they love them, >> right? >> But I think they come for the social. >> Sure. I just um there are definitely we could serve.
>> But we can't we can't make that argument simultaneously with food insecurity. That is, you can't simultaneously say you're >> Dennis, they love tacos as much as they love the the turkey dinner.
>> See, when we get tacos, >> Yeah. That's one of our most expensive, >> but it the fajita sandwiches the light. >> Yeah. >> They people they don't care, Katie. They just want to be social.
>> Right. Right. Right. Yes. I guess my my point is there is variety and there will continue to be variety. We can certainly adjust accordingly, but some of what you might suspect are our most expensive meals aren't because of who we get them catered from versus some of the things
that you wouldn't think are as expensive are more expensive because of where they're coming from. It just depends. Yeah, >> that those were the fantastic people love them. >> Yeah. But we can't make the argument that >> and I have a heart stop in about 10.
>> They're really here for this. We can't make the argument that they are really here for the socialization or they just want a place to go or they like being together. We can't make that argument while
simultaneously saying >> there is a health risk involved with food insecurity and they're going hungry if we don't have this. >> Would you agree with that? >> I'm not arguing. >> Okay. >> I'm the one sticking up for it.
>> Yeah. I I mean I I think that there's I I hear your point in terms of any budget cut to any of these categories is going to require a careful evaluation of how much is being spent >> for every single one of them.
>> I I agree with you. We don't have to do fancy meals. I don't think any of the meals we serve here are fancy. Like they're just not. But there is variety in them. And so we can certainly accomplish we can certainly deal with budget cuts
>> by setting caps on how many people can come setting caps on what the total value like the total bill of a meal can be. Right? So um we've already made eliminations like this year we've really reduced the amount of easy cater we're doing because there used to be free
delivery or $10 delivery. Some restaurants are charging 40 $50 $60 for delivery now. Yeah. >> So, you know, we've already made accommodations for that because we don't think that that's a good use of of the funds.
>> So, you know, any of this would require, >> you know, further examination. So, >> all right. >> As far as I say, leave it this way and go in and let them say we can't do that. >> Okay. You've got you've got the
you've got the the knowledge and the basis of or the idea of where you're going to get additional funds from. And you're right, saying that, oh, well, I've already done that. Here it is. Isn't the way to go, right? Let me go back to the drawing board and see what I can to find that $9,000. It's not a lot
of >> Yeah. >> Okay. Is there any room in in your budget narrative for putting in the um how this will impact
like you know like by you know by starring certain things you know cutting back on expanding on the food insecurity of those types of things >> um within the budget narrative and I don't know that answer I don't how that
gets >> looked at in those types of things. >> No, that that that paragraph there typing is a pretty nice >> what >> that that those first couple of sentences there are pretty effective I
think. >> Mhm. Did you still want to bring your name through security? That's Oh, yeah. Yeah. Security and I mean this is all budget narrative like
this is the budget narrative. What gets turned in >> is actually uh what will get turned in is What will get turned in is this.
This is the actual budget that will get turned in. >> Okay. >> Right. So there's the level funded and there's the 10% reduction um that reflects >> what's in the narrative. So it will be
the narrative and then these two pages. And I did include my wage detail in here because I would love for someone to tell me I calculated it wrong and therefore I have to cut less. It's not going to happen, but I did include it in there.
So that's that's what will get turned in. >> Okay. So I see you've got the uh the new target. >> Mhm. >> Is 239. >> Yeah. And I cut it to I cut it to within
>> 26. I I I basically got it there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> So, um >> and it's a little bit confusing because expenses that line expenses is
programs but also the um professional things like uh the conference and the MCOA dues and the mock dues. they don't go under services because they're not contractual. So,
>> um it's just the way that those divide out. So, it >> that's why none of these numbers specifically match what's in the narrative, but they come together to do that. Um >> so, yeah. So, it will be this is what
appears in the budget book, but again, it will be this one. >> Don't open the bracket a little bit. Oh, you want to go back to this one? >> So the just the percent the second to the last
column on the right. >> Mhm. >> So 4347 is added. No contractual increases in red, but it's a 5.66% increase or not? >> No, it's a 5% decrease.
>> No, no, up up top. column right on the second row. There you go. >> Yep. >> That's the uh >> No, I have to update this based on the one I just did. >> Oh, okay. >> So, this will be >> that's >> this will all change. Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> So, that 43 goes away to zero. >> That goes to zero. >> 43. >> No, it doesn't. The This is the 43 will adds back in yours. So this
So this one has no salary increase for me, >> right? This one has no contractual increase for the staff, but it doesn't add up to 7,000 because um because there's a contractual that
because there's a step increase that I honored through another line of my budget last year >> and and her benefits were paid for out of a grant this year that won't be next year. So that is no contractual increase but
there is still an increase in that line. >> Got it. >> Yeah. >> So as the process unfolds just a couple of thoughts. I it would be good to have in the newsletter the dates of the public forums for the
budget process as they become available. And you know, I don't know if they available a month ahead of time. Um, but it just would be good to have that increased public. >> Yeah. Uh, let me go look and see real quickly.
>> If does mail get assigned to you as a cost center or is that just >> mail? >> Right now, mail is not assigned to me. And that's like for example, that's in the accountants town budget right now. And that's one of the things that she
said, well, the the town has a mail budget. >> Yeah. >> Right. I had grantf funded postage for for the senior ners project. So, I did not use the town's postage budget for the mailers we did for the building, >> but the and I don't I don't remember how
much it is. It's in the budget someplace. You could look it up. It's a line item. >> But one that sits in the town accountants budget. And she said, "That's one way I could cut my budget is by saying that every department has to pay for their own postage. So it would cut it out of mine, but it would then I
would need to add a postage budget into my bud my budget." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So I mean, we don't do that much mail here, so it wouldn't be the end of the world, but um for other departments, it might be. Um so what I was trying to find was Does anybody see here the
budget calendar? uh budget preparedness directive and process. I think that's that's the memo. Um >> what about the one above that? >> I think they might have some about which month the thing
>> budget calendar. >> Oh, there we go. Budget calendar. >> So December budgets are due. So these contracts are being renewed this year.
Um then but January 16th so somewhere between December 29th and January 16th >> um the town manager will be meeting with everybody and then have put together draft one of the budget based on all
those department head meetings. Um >> and that goes but that's not the public forum. That's when the budget goes to the select board and the finance committee for conversation or whatever. >> Correct. Yep. And then um
budget presentation Wednesday, March 25th. So it will be after um union negotiations are done. So it will be somewhere here in February is when the school's budget is due to the
town. So the there won't be a budget pre a public budget presentation until Robert is able to have all the pieces of the puzzle. This is what the school budget is. This is the final um quote
from the health insurance folks about what that's going to cost. And then here are all the departmental budgets. >> You mean monthly in post? Well, April capital planning no capital planning to
meet monthly in March. Capital planning fcom can meet monthly in February. >> So >> yeah, >> I I don't know. There's no capital planning issues for our current budget. Mm-m. >> So maybe for Fincom that is it appears
that uh I'm I'm looking for the most effective way or the for the public to be engaged in the budget process prior to the end of March.
By the end of March, >> these num, you know, it's >> so I I think the real I think >> it's all done. There you go. We're going to vote on >> So I think the question I think the spot is >> is right here. January 16th. So let's
see what it looks like on January 16th. >> Let's see what >> Let's see what that budget looks like on January 16. So sometime after January 16th and before March whatever before March 25th >> because your February and March meetings will be your incom and all those types
of meetings that they'll be meeting >> because the the draft one of the on January 16th could include scenario one. It could include scenario two. So let's see what it includes. It it's not going to include scenario scenario three. I have already been told that it won't include
that. So it would not be until the more data comes in in February and March. And so then just everyone should be paying attention if they would like to advocate. Everyone should be paying attention to what happens between
January 16th here in February and March, but prior to this March 25th. >> So >> Okay. >> All right. I am unfortunately have to >> you want to give me the uh
can you guys have a motion >> second I'm sorry >> thank you everyone