##VIDEO ID:pCq_xweakHw## welcome everyone um today is Wednesday October 23rd 2024 and this is a meeting of the senior center site selection and building committee oh hang on there we go all right this meeting will be held inperson um at the location provided on this notice members of the public are welcome to attend this in-person meeting please note that while an option for remote attendance Andor participation via Zoom is being provided as a courtesy to the public the meeting or hearing will not be suspended or terminated if technological problems interrupt the virtual broadcast unless otherwise required by law members of the public with a particular interest in a specific item on this agenda should make plans for in-person versus virtual attendance accordingly this meeting will be live on Zoom the public May access the proceedings by joining Zoom meeting 375 414 6055 or by calling 9 29205 6099 for additional information about remote participation please contact Carly antonellis assistant Town manager at ATM a.m. us or 978-772-4864 any um if there are no modifications okay all in favor right chair says I wonderful I think you have because you're remote no uh yeah yeah Katie you should do a roll call because you're remote oh roll call okay um all right so um I guess I'll just go through the people Ellen here Ken hi oh hi um Linda hi Dennis hi Bonnie hi uh Dan v i and the chair says I okay great wonderful thank you for minute and uh I wanted to say an official welcome to Linda Collins our um newest um member of the committee she's going to serve as an alternate for us and will be participating in the conversation and will'll be uh participating in voting as well whenever there is a member absent and there are two absent this evening so welcome Linda we're excited to have you on board and uh let's see all right so the first thing on the agenda is uh approval of we have three well we actually have two sets of the minutes um August 28th and October 2nd did everyone get a chance to review those minutes okay great um can I get a motion to any discussion about though any suggest edits or think the first one I looked at was the 28th right there was a typo in there regarding the the uh think it said typography of mil land instead of topography of the something like that typographical survey instead of a topographical survey okay um there was a couple of other i' say m I think I say in general it covered the summary of what there was a couple of mined tys and things like that okay I just I don't have them in front of me so you still have in front of you Katie um I don't right now no um I just check check for a typo in a couple places and then so we'll approve as amended and we can check for the typos yeah I'm comfortable with that if the group is so Robert do I need to roll call for all of the votes yes because just because it's a hybrid okay yeah okay um all right so do we have a motion to approve the August we approve the meeting minutes as amended for August 28th 2024 second all right um all right roll call Ellen I Ken yes uh Linda uh yeah Linda you because she wasn't at that meeting okay sorry was that a pass yeah okay all right Dennis hi Bonnie hi okay Dan I all right ter says I as well thank you that passes all right same thing for October 2nd I think that one might have had the topographical because I said something about a topographical survey so I make I guess we make the same motion can you make the same motion that sorry I move that we approve the meeting minut for October 2 20124 as amended second all right um Ellen I Dennis I'm sorry Ken Dennis hi oh sorry I was going around I Bonnie I okay and Dan's here now Dan I all right chair says I wonderful thank you everyone all right so that brings us to the um the meat of our meeting this evening to discuss the proposed timeline and the funding scenario for um getting to town meeting in your packet um everyone should have I think on the back page this um wonderful project plan put forth the timeline put forth by Dan um Dan did you want to take a minute to um go through that with everyone and then um Robert after that I think you were going to add some um additional items about the town meeting process and the the options for the timeline of the funding yeah sure all right um yeah so um working since the last meeting we started kind of thinking hey so we know you know we're starting to do the due diligence what other tasks are there you know as we move forward what are we going to need to take account for and you know especially as we look at you know potentially funding this um the senior center project and so on here um I put some of the major um tasks that are involved obviously there be there's going to be more than just that's shown on here but you can see um we we're working right now on the anr and Survey of the lot and that's David E Ross so that's shown on here and um and that contract was signed before today as you can see today is shown on here in green um that would have been yesterday the 22nd um the 21e that has not been um contracted just yet we we're pretty much almost done reviewing it I got to talk to Bonnie offline we got a response back from one of the uh Consultants today um on that so we're almost ready to go and that shouldn't take too long to complete um for environmental permitting and this is a um you know critical item um for this project which there's still more to be determined here um so right now we've the committee has approved moving forward with a habitat assessment and we did uh we did have proposals from two firms and the firm we're working with is Gard Consulting and so I've been in touch with Steve Ribery at Godard and he's going to be coming out to do the habitat ass and so um basically what it'll involve will be him visiting the site and looking at at the area evaluating for the you know the blandings turtle the New England blazing star which is the plant and if there's any other habitat he would have to uh we would have to worry about um in the area one thing to note is the habitat assessment he's going to do is not not just for the 3 Acre Site that we've outlined but also the corridor of the road where the water M and the electric would come come down too because that's also within the priority habitat of rare species well that's all the way from speed yeah I'd have to look at the map I think it might it might be where the gate is I think it's from the gate Bishop Bishop fig game but it does continue down most of the corridor yeah so he does have to he is including that big chunk of the Town yeah and it didn't it didn't change his price get to that so I haven't yeah so timing on that I've given him you know we've uh noticed to proceed essentially but he hasn't scheduled a date to come out but it should be I'd expect within the next week or two but the the sooner the better because we need to get that moving and before the the weather gets even uh um lousier right now there's a chance you can see plants that are yeah blazing blazing star is actually seeded right now it's in seed okay once it drops its seed uh probably in the next couple weeks it's it's hard to tell yeah okay so so how long after his visit will it take him to complete his report do we know we have sense of that we talk weeks week you know month and a half No No it should be weeks it'll probably be a week or two it doesn't take them that long I give them a couple weeks but as part of that we would then approach natural heritage kind of like I did before I have a Conta back there when I I had a pre pering session with them um a few months back and that's where I kind of learned about the different species we're concerned with at the site and so we would approach them at that time with Steve's report gard's report and try to get a sense of what to expect for the permitting and then um basically the next step will be when we have plans know we would have to kind of set put together an application for a natural heritage permit which would involve it doesn't have to be a very far along levels of plans probably what we have we have a site plan and then something from my office with the corridor the Water and Electric something to give the natural heritage to say hey these are the areas that might be impacted as far the permit and to move it forward so that would be the next step after the habitat assessment so I guess while we're talking about it so right in here I put in habitat assessment and then after that's done we submit to natural heritage we talk to them first then we'll sub to them a permit um if the natural heritage permit if there becomes what's called a tap you can see under meepa permitting after natural heritage to the right I put in parentheses if a tape and two plus acres of disturbance that triggers a meepa permit basically what a take is is if the project you were working on has a significant impact to the habitat of the blaming turtle or the Blazing star it's consider a take and there has to be specific mitigation measures and a plan put in place to protect that that habitat and potentially some offsetting with conservation land and things like that so that's so that's why we kind of don't know exactly yet if we're going to head down that road it's possible um would you like to tell them what the preference would be on letter what's that would you like to tell them what the preference would be to the tape the preference would preference would be a no tape oh yeah oh the letter we're looking for and hopeful for no take right so you submit the application natural head but you either get back a take and they list special conditions you have to submit a protection plan etc etc or no take and we can move forward with the project with a few measures take y yeah but if they determin that it is a take who would provide to them the mitigating measures taken what so Gard would prepare a plan would likely be a turtle protection plan that GD would have to put together and it would involve a scope during construction so you'd have to have like specific silk fencing prevent the turtles yeah and then there would probably be a post construction um me potential measures that need to be kept in place and and do we have funds available to pay for that work I mean would it be enough to what we have we would have to use what we have now about 2 pointk so it's it's not a lot of for him to put a protection plan together so that so me on a few different projects so so um anyway so we're kind of heading down the permanent road so there's potential the the only other item with that and I don't and I have to talk to Steve and natural heritage and Bonnie kind of touched on it is the habitat assessment natural heritage may want us to do a survey of the New England blazing star on the plant and basically the survey is identify where it's located on your site physically so you have to see it during actual blooming season which is they say August I think through September yes end of September yeah and so that would be obviously further down into 2025 now I don't know what impacts that would have on our our project would that push us out or not can we have you know somewhat of a permit you know already in place and still be able to bid and go forward with construction I would aim to do that if we can but I think I think we're I'm kind of getting down hypothetical as far down the road at this point is there anything we can do to go on site while they're still possibly there and mark them well exactly that's what so Steve the sooner Steve from he's not coming for several weeks is there anything we can do to go put a flag no it has to be done by him he because he's licensed he's certified by all so I I'll push him to get out here this week if not he could be up by next and he mentioned like the plants are probably dead and decaying and he said he could potentially find where those are the the other the other option is maybe we can ask um so native plant trust which is part of um the New England it's the New England plant conservation program through um Garden Woods they have like this huge habitat Mount why are you smiling at me and they it's not even that high ranks protected plant do you understand that New England bling it's like the lowest rank on the yeah I mean it's look it's just a concern something right not endangered it's not endangered um but they may they may have gone out there I don't know they would have probably contacted you guys to ask permission to get on site to look if they have like a record of it because they usually every year they like to go to the same site over and over again to basically do their assessment to interesting yeah yeah okay I could if they' been on site if they might have some data that would be help but they wouldn't have been able to access the site without going to DPW right but they could have done the corridor maybe at least talking to Steve he says that New England blazing star doesn't really like wooded areas which most of the site we're looking at is wooded except when you're along the road potentially near Rush yeah like sandy soil nice dry sandy soil so um and kind of yeah we us said Can is it it's kind of the least on lowest on the re list so I mean that's why I'm thinking maybe it's in talking to natural heritage even they say well what we try to do is just avoid where the plant is with your design or if you're going to have to go where it is you just replant it somewhere so it seems like an easy fix mitigation so you I'm thinking hope something you can you're have to hold up a project plant are the EAS to mitigate and just replant them yeah buy the Seed PL replanted so that's kind of the permitting so that's in progress that's a you know critical variable that we got to keep on um and then I did work with Joan's on the call on um the build design and the timing of that and basically that you can see that's the next row down just pass this over no sorry you look at I know you did yeah air is like isolated right entire town of air has that thing yeah show it the dentist he would appreciate okay he's a govern specialist okay yeah so um so looking at the building design so basically once if hypothetically if we had all the money for the design today it would take you know roughly six months to to complete the design all the way through from schematic level through to final design completion so you can see on here schematic design that's about I said about a 30% designer it's about a two-month process from there there's a review and then we going to design development and so you're just further the design alternative that we decided to go with and and Bas so and then basically once the design development's done um The Next Step would be just final design so there'll be kind of a review period in between the design development final design there also be just as a a point there'd be ful assessment of cost factors it' be a full cost estimate at schematic design development and then at about 80 or 90% final design to make sure that we're on track with the budget yeah that's a good point John so in between at each when schematic design is finished there's a cost provided with that and also when design development is finished can I ask a question to you and John because it just dawned me and it made a not to myself when you when we talk about the design of the building are we including the site plan design as as the same sequence which Mak yes of course yeah so it has to be part of the whole it's a part of the whole thing including septic and um utilities access confusion it was just the building I want to double check every on the standard includes the entire design yeah everything the nuts we can't bid it without it so usually yeah John right usually near the end of schematic design you bring in your other disciplines the Civil mechanic yeah the Civil probably comes in a little bit earlier but all the rest of the folks we we will make them aware of what we're doing because structure might the structural folks might say oh you know can you adjust it this way to get this beam and but generally all the disciplines come in at design development and um and uh we might I I think we'll be talking to civil during schematic to make sure we got this the parking lot and some of that stuff figured out yeah and between final design and how in order to bid the project how long between the design is complete and the request for bids goes out and the bids come back yeah you have two weeks for advertising in the central register it's required to be online in the Reg for two weeks and then we have depending upon the scope and any complications we allow six to eight weeks for bidding where the um if it's six weeks it's four weeks for the file sub bids and two weeks for the final uh GC to put it all together sometimes we'll we'll take um it just depends upon the scope we might very go with um five weeks for subs and two or three weeks for the general but but generally we can get it done in six weeks but it's advertising is too so that if you go over the six then you got two weeks that's eight weeks and then you allow because the contract is in Spec all done we work with the Town Council on that in the front end uh there's no negotiation on the contract we just fill in the numbers and the file sub bids you have a chance of having um somebody to uh challenge a sub bid um jally the file sub bids are are determined by the the state regs uh generally they're miscellaneous Metals uh HVAC drywall painting Roofing all of that stuff um um so it's um it generally if it goes smoothly it's eight weeks plus about a week or so to get the contract signed so that's what you're you're showing here right yeah 1625 to 7825 basically that's section yeah and so and and this I probably need to get a more information on but based on the um procurement chart that I have from the state when you bid a project over $10 million there's supposed to be a phase a first phase of soliciting qualifications and the second phase of soliciting sealed bids and I've never done this before so I need to just confirm that we'll we we'll get that worked out with you we have not we we usually do not pre-qualify but what what Dan is talking about and I think the numbers have changed a little bit and I will inquire about that but um what he's saying is that we may have to pre-qualify the generals and probably even the file sub bids I just got a I I'll talk to Dan some more about that but we just bid a couple projects that were well over 10 million and we did not requalifying okay but but you know and that was done through the OPM would this would be a little less qualifying would require probably another um three three weeks or so to go through that pre-qualification and and where in this process does the OPM come on board or assuming about two months ago yeah um anything over a certain amount requires OPM now a lot of communities can provide their own OPM through through their staff but they have to be qualified but technically the OPM is involved in right from the very beginning the problem the most towns wait until the drawings are starting but technically you should be starting earlier than that is there a question that we should raise Robert that that Dan can be the OPM at all in the future you interested Dan ask we could help you Dan I could help you but he is he is licensed engineer I think we could definitely let's discuss that yeah it gets pretty intense and um yeah so I think through the chair we we should discuss that and report back any interest time that's a good idea yeah okay um so that's the building design the next row I have the electrical design shown in here which we're working on now and U and the the basically the time frame I got on the design and Engineering for electrical is in line with the documentation I have from National Grid um and I mean I guess I don't show permitting along with the electric in the water designs in here but it's up above and it will be concurrent with those designs going on so that you know any plans from those designs would be built into the perming and then also on the bottom I just mentioned the water offsite water main design and um Matt and my office is starting to work on that now obviously we need to get the survey from Ross um who's going to be giving us a survey of the corridor I know he was doing the lot he's going to do the corridor too um to give that to us so we can design the water and we've I'm trying to get a hold of pay in that's going to be a really big thr just making sure we get they get across the tracks with the water M so just you know dealing with the railroad and making sure we meet their requirements I don't want them to slow us down hard to get a hold of yeah I did mention there is a line under the an now we know yeah it's yeah small and for are I in and a half or something yeah too yeah it's a small one yeah so we do know that is is there any information coming from National Grid on the cost estimate they had that been or not no not yet so I you know I've submitted some information back to them but I haven't heard anything so we're kind of waitting um I got to give a nudge but but um that's it's kind of in progress right now I think gave Dan some of that electrical information for um yeah that's helpful yeah for the grid yeah wait minute did you get that already from John I did yeah information from John that's helping you push it Forward yeah that's easy yeah do you have any idea what he anticipates like a 6 inch man going down there I'll do my size of eight and just make it big enough so if you have it connected the other way yeah we typically we'll go with a minimum of an eight eight yeah yeah so we'll put eight eight is plenty yeah a lot of ours are six but you're running quite a long distance so you might want to go in with an eight but beating the building we only need a six want any potential further development along that road do you want to you know allow for that in the water now or would it be needed um I mean if we did start standard 8 in if there was future development you I don't expect develop you need anything larger than that Eight's pretty it's pretty substantial yeah it is pretty right so um you know especially in that area where we do have we have good pressure down there it would just be about the flow really um and like you did mention the opportunity if we ever in the future became you know in interest of both parties we could connect in with um Lin down the street they do um so that's kind of it I did I sort I think I went through these as we were going I left some notes in the bottom right corner about the habitat assessment and how it's a you know critical item um moving forward to to kind of let us know what's involved in our cently but I think the good thing is I've already had a meeting with natural heritage so they already kind of know about the projects when I go back to the the same biologist over there he'll already be well aware and you obviously won't be me it'll be Steve from da who's been very helpful on another project in town for us for me worked with Steve too he's very good yeah so so that's kind of an overview here all obviously I didn't put in you know you know do does this design slide further out you know if that happens there's more cost involved because with time there's time value of money there's escalation um you know the building is the building it's not like you're designing a bridge and then you go do some borings and you're like oh shoot I can't do a box CER I got to do you know a bridge on piles and the cost goes way up but you know I think right John you wouldn't expect any significant change in cost based on the current schematics or or concepts of the building we have no the information I gave you for power and and if I didn't give you for water we ran 6 in um in in our last project in wil Bram which is almost exactly this it's it's a little bit um smaller I think but 6 in is great for water and the power is I think we have a 250 KW generator and the power and that's a whole building generator so I I think we gave you the power diagrams for that I don't see any problems with that so and then um yeah so you know these are the key items I showed on here and I didn't show you know if like town meeting isn't toward the end of April that normal town meeting that'll be a good Segway to me okay you want to talk that's kind overview here yeah so can I just get clarification so you're saying there's potentially will be no change in C um at at that at this specific timeline So based on the cost estimate we have now from Catlin the only really item that would change the cost is if this if we go further out in time escalation so you know I was trying to kind of say it's there's not going to be an unknown that pops up that all of a sudden changes the price significantly you know it's a building we're going to design right so so I think the cost that we've been given so right now from Catlin is a a pretty decent cost even though we haven't done much design work necessarily okay it's pretty U pretty good one um to use for budgeting purpose pures but yeah so can I ask sorry another question so John what so what would be like in your estimate like a significant like time delay that would that would modify a cost structure is it like two months four months six months I don't if we follow that probably it just comes down to funding um and getting all those approvals that's really what holds it up um I don't see I don't I I've been looking at the weather reports you know um over the long over the next year or so and it's it's they're calling for a reasonably mild winter I think construction cost the only thing that we haven't done deep borings yet but I know from the test pits that Dan's crew did the site is really good material um and I think Dan did some research on the soils in this area and um unless from our um borings we find out we have a a Pete Moss mess down there about 15 or 20 feet I don't see any reason why we have a problem we found no large Boulders so I I think we're fortunate to have a good site so far so I don't see any any problems unless you know you have another pandemic or something I don't the end of the world occurs I I hope not because we really look forward to getting this buildt humor guys come on humor yeah Dan could you put the could you I had a remote hit but can you add the borings to that and I think we can have it done by either go anybody any of the tree can do it or you can do guard can do it Russ can do it no can't do that they don't do that you would probably go with um EAS get yeah it's s like a guy who drills for Wells you know he goes we go down we recommend going down 22 feet and we probably need about six borings whatever we get done in a single day because the site's open I don't see a reason why I can't get done in a day and they should go pretty smooth if not from what we've seen so far just Sandy material but yeah we could um my Engineers will require that yeah that's easy thanks John I put a note in here before too that we might want to have a traffic study done along the way it's part of our scheme but that may not be a full study it may just be a traffic report of some sort Katie do you want me to now jump in on the funing yes that that'd be great thank you members of the committee good evening Linda welcome forward to working with you so um a special thanks um to Dan and everybody on all the work that on we have the schedule here and so now let's there nothing is ever easy in municipal government bear with me we'll add the next sort of challenge to the schedule the good news is we have some options in a a a plan I think for the the committee to discuss so just very briefly I know I did a previous memo that's in the website was sort of a snapshot on the the process but just to to recap for everybody's benefit and I'm going to just walk us through what I'm going to call a conceptual scenario so for the record and for the public I want to stress I'm just going to use the assumptive number of 17.7 million from here just for the sake of discussion just want to be clear that you know there's work to be done but you know people get held up on numbers but just for the sake of the discussion so just for the committee's benefit real quick and we touched upon this before this is obviously what we would call um a capital project and the main source of funding as we see it um will come from a borrow and specifically what we call a dead exclusion and a debt exclusion in a nutshell is authorization for the town to borrow up to and that's a key phrase up to a certain amount of funding over a period of time normally something of this magnitude would be what we call a 30-year borrow the good news is the committee doesn't have to get all into the Weeds on this because Barbara Cherney the treasurer tax finance manager that's her job on the specifics of the borrowing the town also has Bond councel Town Council and and myself so we're not going to get way down in the into the weeds but conceptually the majority of this project is going to have to be borrowed so under state law in Massachusetts and with the town this would most likely be a debt exclusion and the debt exclusion has two statutory requirements it has to be approved the borrowing up to so let's say up to 17.7 million why I keep stressing that is people ask well what happens after the approval if there's a a reduction in scope or we get a grant or we get some other funding source the good news is they're just authorizing the treasurer to borrow up to that amount Barber would never borrow money we don't need so but the maximum ceiling two-part process it has to be approved by town meeting by a 2third vote so there would be a warrant article which would ask for authorization for the treasurer to borrow up to x amount um and that has to pass town meeting by 2third vote and at this town meeting that's where you would be doing your presentation and so forth as well if it passes the 23s vote at town meeting it also has to pass a ballot an election in in the town and um so it's a two-part process it only has to pass by a simple majority at the ballot and though state law interestingly doesn't say what order you would do it in nine times out of 10 it makes sense you do your town meeting first because you have a good captive audience to give all the information and then you would have the election afterwards so these are two things that we um definitely have to do by Statute additionally um related to this the town of air has a capital planning committee it's an advisory committee that's appointed by the selectable and it is charged with reviewing all capital projects and making a recommendation to the select board now the capital planning just bear with me the capital planning committee's recommendation is advisory in nature ultimately the select board would determine if the warrant article would move forward in the town's Financial policies anything that's over $500,000 is a dedic exclusion it needs to go through the capital process what is that Capital process it it is designed it's another sort of public layer the committee meets they review the project they make certain determinations which we already do know but it's an important part of the process for example can the town does the town have the borrowing capacity for this project as we've already talked about gone on record the answer is yes but what people say well what's the capital planning committee and Dan goes through this all the time it's not necessarily this big drawn out process the good news is the capital planning committee knows that this is coming they're aware of the project and have been generally supportive so I just want to bring up that that piece the capital piece which we have a plan for so what does this all mean moving forward in in terms of the schedule so we're at this point I call it it's sort of a great Balancing Act and there's some considerations and I think Dan and all of you've done a great job as we have a defined schedule so here is um I think what the committee you know needs to consider so you have right now approximately $220,000 remaining in other words you've authorized funding for due diligence on things which is great so you have right now you have $220,000 as um available funding so there are a couple there are two scenarios we're looking at I'm going to call the first one the standard scenario so in an in in there's always exceptions so excuse me yeah the 220,000 that you mentioned does is that minus all the work we've already contracted for at the site yes okay so that's cover correct so all things being equal you recently voted to do which is great all those due diligence things so all of that you have 220,000 left that right good so the question so what I'll call the standard scenario the standard scenario would be um we would send this project to the capital planning committee um the deadline for that is um October 31st the good news is we're in a position to submit um what you have will be sufficient then in normal with the cap planning committee would meet um relatively quickly in November December they would review this um and you know make a a recommendation on it additionally so there are some steps we're already I think they're already doing as part of the budget process so we definitely want to go through the capital process also want to go through the finance committee which I know that members met with the thcom um recently I think in my opinion once we get everything you know tightened up that's not a criticism you know the thom's role is also to review um um projects and funding um on behalf of of town meeting and of course the select board is a key player and they are aware of this process so the normal process right now would be would be submitting this to Capital planning having a meeting with capital planning have your meetings with the fincom the select board as we go through the budget process then what would happen on the standard process is the annual town meeting it would be the fourth Monday of April as it is every year so in Bonnie and ass it's early so on April 28 2025 would be the annual town meeting so all of this process would have happened the select board would have recommended the warrant article uh for the debt exclusion authorization we go to town meeting on April 28th do your presentation that the discussion um and then they take a vote and 2/3 vote to authorize then what would happen is the annual Town election which is on May 13th of 2025 is where you'd have the ballot so town meeting would have happened 2third vote it would go to the ballot and the ballot question um needs to just pass by a simple majority vote once those two statutory boxes are checked for the sake of argument you could argue that on May 14th the day after the election would be the earliest we te it up the authorization to borrow would be available so you would have the funding and we'd move for forward now here's the challenge or what we I think we need to consider the question is on a normal Timeline under that normal route would there be sufficient funds to get you know to that point you only have 220,000 it looks like we may need some you know additional funding to get to that point so an alternate pathway and this has has happened so this will be the what we'll call the alternate pathway we'd still do the capital piece I talked about that's the same the meeting with the fincom select what through the beginning of that budget process that's all the same what we may need to consider consider is having an earlier town meeting and an earlier election to get all of the the funding ahead of time now it was discussed to some extent or you could say well we could go to just a town meeting to get some additional funding a special town meeting and then go to the annual town meeting I think we can all agree the less trips you make to town meeting I I think the better so what the committee may want to I think should consider is doing a if you did a special town meeting for the authorization in the beginning of in early February I'll come back to the thought on that and tee up a special election in February as well assuming again the 2third vote on the special and the simple majority it passes and then the borrow authorization you would have all of the fund um for the project potentially in in February now just so the committee knows how does that how would that work so the select board and some of you who've been involved with this longer will remember this because the select board offered this up maybe two years ago the select board can call a special town meeting for any purpose including this with a minimum of a 14-day notice so the flightboard in a duly meeting could call a special town meeting as quickly as 14 days I think we could all agree we want to structure this you know with some some time considerations and the select board can also call a special election for a Deb exclusion with a 35 day notice in writing to the town clerk so again um this could all be teed up and in coordinated and the thought process is where we're coming up already almost on November 1st to be realistic um the earliest that this could be um I think teed up you know for potential success for Success would be in that February um timeline so if we follow the normal pathway the concern is twofold one is the timing as it ties into the funding and what would that mean for the project schedule and on the alternate side the alternate election piece um again is more of a strategic what I call a strategic public political consideration and I do think that this that this committee should consider going to the select board at their next meeting on November 19th with an update with this scenario with an update and to have that discussion and and get their um feedback so to conclude and I'm sure there'll be other you know questions what I would propose as far as next steps of firm believer on next steps moving things forward I think next steps would be to further refine the the project and the project schedule which I think Dan has a good handle on as we and all these things can happen simultaneously further refine that um prepare and I'd be there as well um prepared um for November 19th to go to the select board to discuss the project schedule and the funding um situation both and and so they're updated and aware but also have that discussion uh at that point will prepare I think between Katie Dan and I the submission um to the capital planning committee which they know it it's coming to submit it for the capital project then the capital planning committees the deadline is October 31st their first meeting will be on November 6 but after their first meeting is when they just schedule when they want to hear from the different Departments of projects so we would know after November 6 when they would want to meet um with the with the committee um I am actually a member of the capital planning committee it's chaired by the chairman of the select board just to give you Christ avaris um the chair of the finance Comm Kurt Paskowski who is a member myself Jim penard who is a member of this committee is also a member of capital um there's a couple other resident Barbara who I've been talking about the finance manager is on there um and so I think that as we continue you know to work this that's what I would sort of suggest as next steps in the final piece which I understand you're going to be doing and I don't want to get off topic um but also I know you're going to be doing some further public Outreach and so forth which I think is important because you'll get feedback I think a lot of exciting feedback positive feedback and then there's also the good the bad the ugly what I'm saying is you'll get a temperature on you know the on the on the project cost and I think that that is helpful because again that's why I stressed in the beginning I'm just conceptually calling 17.7 million the the maximum ceiling I I'm aware even this graft stuff there's some adults there's some other considerations that this you know group needs to make so I think that is also timely that you're going to start um and Earnest that that public Outreach so Madam Char stop there my purpose for tonight was to sort of get this information to all of you and please know between myself Dan my office Barber the finance manager and so so forth that the committee does have the professional staff support that's actually to Shepherd us through this because we're we're at an exciting phase I think of the project but also a uh a critical phase in the sense there's a lot of moving parts and and considerations um as we move forward thank you so much Robert um that's a great summary and sets us up perfectly to discuss as a as a committee what does everyone think about that about those two pathways um the two time frames I I just not yeah quickly um the so the schedule I put together here is like the it's the ideal schedule and it's really because I did mention you know the the sooner we work the less escalation there is on the project so L lower the cost but also it kind of gets you toward construction before winter of next year so you can get the shell of the building and the foundation and ground so you're good to start working through the winter so that's why you know that's kind of I just want to point that out here for every then I have a question regarding the cost so we have $220,000 what what does that cover out to the the town the the evil Town yeah yes and so John that's correct me if I'm wrong but I think that would get through schematic design close to that point at this time so if we if you look at it there now you're towards the end of December so you've got kind of if you do the special town meeting in February you got about a month and a half or two month Gap where we you know we don't have any funding to further the design um you know and then if you went all the way out to the April time meeting and you're really you know four or five you five month of because it's really May when the ballot is right um where you're kind of just unable to to move forward so I that's kind of roughly where the 220 would get here and that that's the rub if you will um yeah that in my opinion for for what it's worth if we went the standard pathway what's happening is it's it's pushing all of this out longer including probably missing the the construction Benchmark before the winter but also as you touched upon Bonnie pushing out where now you're getting into escalation territory and so forth y so that's why we're looking at or proposing this alternate pathway where and Dan I think just hit it great that you there'd be about if all things go equal on his schedule we could get through the schematic design and there may be it'd be about a may be a month I don't want to say last time because things can happen but a month Gap to the authorization of the funding as opposed to almost a four to five month before yeah and this assumes I guess starting schematic design before November 1st we're already almost there now I didn't even know that John would you we can't award a contract just for schmatic design can we sure you can um we'll just we'll just award it through the very that phase and the the good thing about the schematic design is it it it really now ties down allows my cost estimator to look at and say yeah you're still on track you know for the numbers the other thing I want to mention and I think it's really important is that our greatest success for getting it through the town process is at special Town meetings versus the general town meeting the reason for that is because Katie will along with your committee and others will certainly get that that meeting filled up with people who really want to have this and you'll have a few folks as you do in all Town meetings that will complain and and cause a little Havoc but in a general town meeting there's a lot of stuff coming up and and there might be another budget plan thing coming in and and and that will really kind of thwart a successful vote at the town meeting so special Town meetings are we we've been very pleased with the results of those in my in my 15 or 20 of these that we've done in Massachusetts so that's just my thought one of my concerns is that delay that is increasing time increases uncertainty I mean the longer that you wait from a particular point to a point in the future that distance to the extent that we can narrow that distance I think it works well for certainty in terms of the cost estimates the lack of estation um any exogenous event that may or may not occur you know the railroad goes on strike the concrete plant blows up so to the extent that we can move forward expeditiously I think it increases the reliability of the current estimates that we have because they're closer in time to previous building projects which have been done that are quite similar um it decreases the likelihood of increasing escalation costs because of increasing contingencies needing to be carried um so I mean my view is to the extent I mean the political strategic aside to the extent that we can move the project forward I think we are serving better the needs of the community that we can try to keep the costs where we think that they are going to fall and extending it out in time increases the unreliability I think of any potential future cost and John's point and thank you John I forgot to mention that there is something and I think the select board way back had also said this as to why they were offering up the concept of a special town meeting to begin with is the importance of this project that it's the focal point that there's ample time for this committee and others to make the appropriate presentation whereas you've all been to the annual town meeting you've got the omnus budget you got 37 other items so I appreciate and John has much more experience on the project front with town meeting so that's good to to hear that's sort of the sentiment we have my concern um I agree that that is the great way to go and say okay let's start designing but we haven't gotten much feedback we haven't gotten feedback from the public we haven't gotten much feedback uh I I guess Katie probably went back to the finance committee when we went to them the first time all they said was we'll take it under advisement and I wasn't here for whenever they followed up and we haven't heard anything from the capital committee so we're just going with the idea that everybody's going to go along with this and it makes me nervous because nothing usually is ever that easy and particularly looking at Peron Park and everything um so I don't know I mean Katie did you go to the finance committee did they give it any kind of approval I I did yes along along with Ken and um we had a great oh and Dennis I'm sorry Dennis was there as well um I think we had a really great discussion um they had dropped drafted up a list of five or six questions that they had for us and then um we were able to um easily answer those um you know I obviously there are still there's still research on their part that I think that they want to do um but they were I think receptive to the responses we had um Ken do you want to offer any no I think that's good that's our expectations were met when we went I think we C a few points that were either misunderstandings by us or them um the appropriate information was given and now we just go back to them when it's appropriate again and and Chen's Point regarding public I mean the general sense I have gotten from the seniors in town is that they are they are very excited and supportive of this uh when we were at the U the Newton Street Fair there were many people whom I have never spoken with before regarding the project who stopped by the Boo and and were generally supportive I and I know that um we would like to do something in November kind of at you know a public at the Town Hall kind of thing um well advertised that brings more people so I I want I certainly want the public to be well informed and I think that to the extent that we can between let's say November 1st and a special time meeting in beginning of February to the extent that we can condense that information into that I think it works well for both the public and for the purposes of getting the building built um so what I would say is that I think the general reception of the public has been positive although not unanimous but the number the sticker shock number which might people may rebel against is not going to be smaller later no it's get bigger it's only gonna get bigger um so and I would Echo that as well that the people I spoke to at the Newton Street Festival um and again um at the flu clinic at the library um were all folks that I hadn't really interacted with before um so they were um mostly seniors obviously but um they were all quite positive about it excited about the potential of the building um in each of those cases I told them the price um both the total price and the estimated um increase for the average household um and I I didn't really get any negative feedback it they most people said it seemed reasonable obviously that's a small sample we have a lot more public input and public feedback to do um we're going to have our first one on November um November 7th at 700 p.m. in the Great Hall upstairs there at Town Hall then I anticipate that and will be at town meeting um outside of town meeting with some handouts for people as they go in to review in preparation for November 7th and I think that's going to be the first of of many sessions um and the good thing is is that does give us some time between you know November 7th and um you know in February to if there's any modifications that need to be made we can be working on those so does that assume that you're going to then go ahead now and approve the money for the um design or wait until after that meeting we gotta wait think more to think about than that yeah yeah I think we'd have to award the contract first right that we'd have to draw that up so I I I think they coincide just fine the timing might work out okay on that yeah okay yeah so the the schedule I put together I should have prefaced this is kind of a living document a working schedule and if you go with what Robert just said of a town meeting in February and we say the 220 only gets us through schematic design you know we talked about that month and a half two month lag of not being able to do anything so why don't you move that month and a half two month lag to right now so then that gives you you know time to be doing further Outreach before we sign a contract and begin the design the schematic design um oh add you know what I'm saying add a section here that talks about the public Outreach yeah we could add that too here right um and so you know that's I just thinking that Gap in time when you're done with schematic design you know around Christmas time till the February town meeting you don't have any money to do anything why don't we shift that Gap in time to to right now to do further Outreach that's what I would and before you pull the trigger on the start I mean plus Katie did mention we do have to you know go through a Contracting process and everything my only comment and I'm this sounds a little self- serving so I'll be very careful here my only comment is that the schematic design is it gives us the the ground if you will the foundation of the building so we're we're feeling we're tracking the money better I'm a little nervous about I don't mind I don't mind what Dan's suggested that we slide it up but I think if the money's available we got a little bit of money left over that we haven't used in the in the original contract it involved us doing a town meeting presentation but I don't mind combining that into this package I would recommend that we at least get the I'd love to be able to get them all we got right now is pretty colored diagrams and and nice renderings I would really like to get to the point where my Structural Engineers and other folks have a little bit better handle on it so I feel more comfortable with our number which we're going to end up putting out there and the number may be a little bit less I I'm I'm trying to be conservative on that number and I think Ken had reviewed it pretty carefully too um it could be two things might happen one is that we might be able to get a little bit tighter number and it could be up or down but prely more down but and as we discussed about the U Springtown meeting that really shifts us into um escalation in winter but if we can do the February 1 how we start the contract it's not we'll do whatever you wish to do I would love to get a little bit of a handle on on getting the drawings more there's a big difference between a schematic drawing I mean a a feasibility drawing and the real hard thing that we're basing the whole and our software allows us to um to begin the building and it doesn't really change from that we just keep building on it so it's just my thoughts about whether we start you know we could wait a few weeks or we can wait till till um some of the other ground work is done but that's just my thoughts is that it would be nice for us to have a a really good set of um of um Foundation drawings um so Dan when you Ed the word in John this is for you when you put the word schematic design building 30% on your were you thinking that's separate from the contract we have now because we do have language in this but some schematic is yes it's very different the feasibility study is a feasibility study it's it's it's really it's getting a program down into a a thing that that you can all agree to this when I when schematic drawing drawings when it comes to working drawings is basically the beginning of final design it's they call them now schematic design design development and final design in reality from the very beginning it's final design it just builds because the new in the old days we used to draw schematic drawings and then we throw them away and draw the next one this one Builds on the software from the beginning and it's all modeled it's a very different animal the Revit is a It's So Sophisticated that I have no idea how it works when I was the contract we have right now we're not developing catic designs we're developing maybe concept plans it's a feasibility I know that but I'm reading the contract yeah it's all semantics don't take it to I know the sequence is what be taking to the the town the Great Hall for for public review public you mean for town meeting or so well Katie you can chime in as well I think that we want to um we have the r we have the physical renderings of the building what it's going to look like we have floor plans which are fairly detailed about how big a wounds will be um and what we're really bringing to the town is an educational component as well what what the existing Senior Center is like what a senior center does in general how our existing Senior Center doesn't allow us to achieve that mission doesn't fully serve the seniors in town and what we need in a modern Senior Center and then showing them this work that we've done the feasibility study how we can solve that issue with this building because I think we do have to do some public education about basic and I if I may Katie just quickly I think and you guys have done an excellent job I think what's going to also to Ellen's point What's going to start to happen and it's not unique to this project it's any public project as you do the public Outreach all of the things Katie said is going to occur but you want to be prepared to people are going to start to ask what is the total cost for this and they it comes down to we know that the town has the capacity that it's affordable the mechanics of the town but affordability right is often very personal depending on who you talk to that I think you're going to start to hear and everybody has an opinion on this uh you know if it's 17 million how much is that going to be and we have ways calculating that out to an extent but I think we just as a town need to just be prepared to um begin to hear that because there are going to be people that will show up how much is it going to cost oh that's too much then that's their opinion right because at the end of the day town meeting it comes all down to mathematics as to who shows up and who doesn't right John touched upon that it's it's about getting the people there but um we will begin to I think very quickly at least begin to get some feedback and I don't think it's all going to be negative by the way on the cost PS it depends on who you're talk to and that's that's normal for any project I mean whether we we do a capital on a bridge any public project everybody has an opinion and they're entitled to on that the question becomes as we move forward is it at a point where we need to have to potentially adjust sales I'm not saying we're at that point you know you want to come out with the maximum optimal project for the seniors which Katie was talking about and that's the goal to get across the finish line but I think we can also just I can all agree also have to be pragmatic because a failed project we don't get it P doesn't benefit anybody and if we need to trim the sales in some fashion and this does happen we need to be prep prepared to do that in a thoughtful way we're not at that point yet that's all you know there are add-ons is other con considerations you know in the project and the other thing is we are actively looking at other um funding pieces that's why I kept saying that up two point is key because this has happened before too that the authorization could be up two but then we do get a grant that or a grant that's in process for $2 million from the state or something and that shaves that Dem actively and there are naming rights by the way if anybody wants to write a check tonight right Katie but so we are actively the town and you all know this I'm saying it more for the record actively also looking at all you know other funding options so if I could ask so with the with the February special town meeting timeline the hope would be that we could get the building started and potentially weathertight before winter sets in so then they could work inside through the winter or something more lightly approximating that I think there's two goals one is earlier we avoid moving into the cost escalation world right and as Dan said earlier in an Ideal World all things being equal if you can get the shell in in you know the in before the winter that be a huge step forward too but I think the biggest concern is from my vantage point without the special election you're going to move this whole thing into the cost escalation point and I think that's a key point to the select board on this and that's going to cost significant I great I'd like to go yeah go ahead um based on the experience that I've had in town government and other committees I believe February is going to be impossible I can tell you why specifically because just having planning board meetings and other meetings the last few nights people are already talking about not having meetings in December second half of the month they don't get anything done you know all these you just St you hear all we're going to have difficulty getting everybody organized and getting it done and do what we have to do by that time I would think March maybe something like that you know maybe another month after that might make some kind of sense but the biggest issue that I have was kind of in tune with Ellen only it's more financial I don't want to I want to make sure that everything on the environmental side of that land is covered before we go to town meeting so I mean we can at least say you know we've done all that stuff yeah there a bling whatever it is and it's going to be in the permiting process but I don't want anybody have a chance to step up and say oh wait a minute there's a you know there's a spill over emons and it's got Pest and all that stuff got killed you know five years ago so my biggest concern is and I'm glad we already started it I'm glad Dan and I work together we' got it going already because we going to get that stuff linked but I want to be able to feel confident that when I go in there there's no chance that anyone can comment on and being inappropriate so that's a big part of it and I guess I you know I I not being in the public World enough I'm not you know educated enough on the bidding process I understand the process you know the file sub bids and Contracting bids and prevailing wage and all the other stuff but what I'm trying to determine is we can how how positive can we be you know when we go to that time many whatever the number might be that we can answer questions and I guess we have to depend on John at that point and his estimate that's basically where we are but I just feel I think the the comment I go back to the finance committee one of the apprehensions the finance committee had was that we were moving too fast so some people in town were moving think we're moving under the radar kind of we have to offset that concept you know that we're not moving too fast we're moving in the appropriate speed that there's a cost savings by moving fast you know so I think we need to get the message out a little more but I'd get I'm I'm I'm speculating that it'll be March rather than February because I think that's great and it could be just real quick just we were just the earliest it could be yeah would be febr and your points are well taken and it's ultim going to be up to you in the select order it's hard to get everybody organized get them together on the same page agree with everything I mean my sense is that from the information that we have now based on John's experience with a similar building based on the work that being and as people have done regarding the site that there there are no deal breakers that we are aware of when the borings are done that will further we hope confirm that the on no deal breakers I I hopefully there is not a uranium deposit that the Army left there in 1960 that is going to be found and then not to just count that it couldn't happen but I think that we have to move forward based on what we know there are always going to be questions that is we can't there are always questions that can't be answered that we can't that is if somebody stands up at town meeting and says what about this particular endangered species if it's not relevant to the project that is I think we've covered all the possible contingencies close really close yes any ex any kind of contingent any anything that someone at Town Hall May mention as but what about yeah well we already have people saying that because they don't understand the concept of breaking the Ani lot off right say DPW land oh let's got water on it it's at a flood plan well that's the reason we snuck it over here in this section we have to get that across that where exactly yes and and and I think that in the process between now and and whatever town meeting we go to we will cover those issues but I I fully expect at town meeting to have someone stand up and ask one that is just kind of out of left field and we're going to have to have the confidence to say yeah we have thought of all the relevant ones it's a great question that you're asking but it's not relevant to this project therefore you should vote to a right well I think before you go into any town meeting you anticipate numbers of questions that will come from the public right and you have an answer I mean I agree with you the timeline is very very short I know December I mean I counted the number of meetings right two meetings per month it's only basically six meetings until a special town meeting um is that enough time it could be if if we really are diligent about saying yes to attend these meetings um but that's not necessary the procedure for this excuse me the procedure for the special town meeting you said they could potentially call on within two weeks that's typically not done for project like this emergency funding that's what right it's not a longterm well thought out no I said that no I said that in in in the beginning you're right the minute just giving you the facts but correct you would never and you wouldn't do that on this either right but I would I would anticipate giving a month and a half two months notice before that right I would not anticipate doing it with two weeks notice I would anticipate doing it announce it sometime let's say sometime around mid late December at the beginning of February or mid-February we're going to have a special time meeting and and again this is not we have been doing this for a year or a year and a half you know this committee all yeah but in the yeah all the that is we're not starting now there have been any number of public meetings and and John has been involved in many of the meetings with the design and and Katie has done an Outreach at the senior center over the last 6 months and preceding it um on our previous project um so there has been substantial amount of public information available to the public which we have put out uh regarding the building of a new Senior Center uh we're not starting today and hoping that um you know hope and again Capital planning is going to need to be kep informed obviously cir's committee and been brought into the loop um I think one of the things that happens is that and I I make this mistake my on my own because I'm so involved with what's going on in town but I learned right there at Newton Street how many people never heard it how many people people came up to us and said if you pick the land in you know we've worked on what for a year to find the land so even though we believe that we're outreaching and we're having all these meetings The public's not getting it's not reaching all the way out there it's reaching the critical people that need to know but not necessarily the whole time well I just want to address this issue that we're working too quickly because I was part of it in 2018 oh when we we had a person that came in and and did all this finding out what the seniors wanted and biging meetings and and that and then started looking and put together some designs and then you know it's been going on a long time I'm 75 that was six years ago I don't want to wait another six years I may not still be here to use this Senior Center I mean there's an age factor with the group that we're trying to support here so we have to work quickly because anything can happen you're right I mean I wouldn't mind if it went to March I I don't really want to see it go another six months after that not only for the money but but it will take so much longer to get into any type of a building that's really functional what we have now is not in the least functional I'm I'm thinking we should do a video of that room and let people see what it's like but I do think in the next month we need to concentrate on public Outreach every way shape and form we can do that to get more people in that and I don't think we should be telling people we've been working on this for a year because we haven't we've been working on this since 2018 it's set aside and some people don't realize that so um anyway yeah just to clarify when coming in just a all conceptual proposal an excellent point and I do agree with Ken the the takeaway is that the earliest would be February but it be in March yes yes I mean at the end of the day that's why I still think is one of the next steps the committee should go to the select board on November 19 and have a discussion about this I'm going to call it this dilemma so the or this challenge the challenge is is okay if we follow the normal course which we can do except it's going the implications it's going to move it into the cost escalation Zone it's going to move everything back and the implication is cost but on the flip side again you know doing as Kens you know February too you know too early that's why I said in the beginning we've got a lot of things to sort of think about and discuss the committee does but I think going to the select board with an update on this situation on November 19th I think is a positive thing because their input also a public meeting so people can see um sort of this challenge that we have so um J can I ask the November 7th public forum um would it be appropriate to at that time schedule another one for you know mid or second let's say second week in December kind sure I think that um I think we're going to need to put out a series of them and there will be other opportunities for Community um engagement in addition to those as well like for example the um downtown Halloween event um you know there's maybe a diff maybe we could be an additional station down there reach a different um set of residents um younger families for that there's the Holiday Stroll there's you know I think we can do a mix of large and small input session so yeah I'm I'm agreeing with you and I've been collecting the name of um the names of groups in town that one of them was the Rotary Club and I understand that jimy Jimmy's a big person with that and set up for a meeting with that group and other groups in town um that we can go to and um one of the the person who was in gron when they opened up that Center said almost every night she did what she called her dog and pony show where she went out to all these different groups and neighborhood meetings and everything else um you know with her slideshow and all to explain it so I think that's what we need to focus on over the next month or so we should be going to the Committees too like I I think of you know CPC as one that we should really talk to right away you know Community preservation we don't necessarily have to go to conservation but we could go just as an informational deal but any Committee in town that has people will go to town meeting they'll all go to town meeting um i' say a recommendation with the stormw Enterprise work group I had we had a similar timeline to this but it was mostly public Outreach and we put it on the timeline and we said you know we had the November 6th or 7th whatever it is you know public forum you're doing we said we're going to go to these committees on these days to to present um you know any other items we had tax bill inserts things like that so kind of add that in here and then keep this as a living document maybe like like Dennis suggested having a second public form maybe have it in here but then next time we meet hey do we need to have that form or not we did the same thing with the storm water worker but it seemed to work really well so I think that would be a good idea as as time goes on and you know I think at every meeting this this timeline should be updated this this schedule um where we're currently at hopefully Bonnie could get that anticipate doing one typically the town warrant is mailed out let's say two weeks prior to the town meeting it would take a few days between the mailing of the Town warrant and the town meeting might be another time where you could reach out to the public because you will have more time to disc discuss the intricacies of the particular waren article there then on the floor at town meeting where control of presentation passes from in this casate Katie to Mr Tillis and and so I mean that may be another time where people who haven't potentially heard about now see the warrant see what's on the warrant and if they have questions we can then reach out that so my suggestion would be um Ellen and I had met um to go over um the documents that were the public Outreach documents we were Drafting and I've got to make another round of edits to those um is there any maybe one other member of the committee that would want to meet to discuss those and we could put together a timeline and then um Dan or Bonnie if we got you that timeline um you could insert it into this into this larger document yeah yeah between us we could we could get it you know it's on the website too but and then before the meeting that we had with finance and whatever I look at I thought it was great thought it was really you know a nice thorough presentation from Taken right from the start you know the reason why we need it the whole setup and what it can always be improved but it it it was not missing much and I think that the one pager that could be handed out at the town meeting coming up yeah I mean it's a kind of a handy little touches all the big points so Katie if you need help I would be interested in doing public Outreach so the two towns that I worked for I've had a lot of exposure to public Outreach um I've done a lot of presentations and it's something that I think I could add value too um I mean I just conversation tonight I have some a couple ideas um just maybe expanding our public Outreach you know group that we're trying to reach might be important yeah but I if you know you need help I that would be fantastic so I'll I'll be in touch with the two of you to um get a meeting for hopefully early next week um to further refine that I want to bring up a question for committee which I think we have to get to so we don't have everybody here but are we in a position or are we comfortable enough to come to vot that we would say this is it this is the budget that we're going to stick with going forth to town meeting everything else we have to have a consensus amongst the group that we're going to say so for instance in this we still have you know we Dan and I for a million and a half doll for them for the utilities water and electric services so forth M we're going to try to get that down maybe that's a little Slough you know so I mean again it has to be a point we reach a point but we say we have a consens so so speaking as one Committee Member um I think that this is a a good faith reliable estimate of what this building should cost based on what we know right now and what John has supplied us with it is a similar building to others John has designed and built so he is so so the reliability of his estimates have to be considered pretty good based on their relatively recent similarity with previous buildings you have obviously gone through it well and have confirmed the numbers and have looked at it in significant detail the cost per square foot that this comes out to and again I know the shock value a little over $1,000 a square is consistent with similar municipal buildings that are being built in Massachusetts right now the most obvious analogy is the senior center that is being built in Littleton now which is currently half finish but their cost per square foot came in at I want to say like $1,100 a square foot so the total project cost is consistent with what we know about building costs in Massachusetts at that time and the specifics of this particular building are consistent with very similar buildings that John so all of this to say that I am I am comfortable saying that we have performed we have performed the necessary du diligence to say that this is a good faith estimate of what this building should cost and I would be willing to say that on the Flor town meeting that I have a question I keep getting thrown off by the alternate um to bid separately and I think some of these things are really important is that are those things the pickle all course and that to me is not the most critical the multi-purpose room partition without that partition we can't really be having meals on one side of that partition and then General exercise on the other side um so I think that's pretty important and also the outside Roof System to have a walking Track around the building which is one of the things we've been talking about to advertise you know the benefits of the building but if we're not going to have it then we can't really do that I think John took the liberty of making that list and we we'll decide if they're in the base pit or not is that right John well as we go along yes yes that's correct actually those numbers are in this current price now I believe you're in so that's 17 in the I think it's important I mean not necessarily pick a ball court but that separator in the multi building and the roof around the building I think are pretty critic yeah and also the roof around the building you can't add later the the partition if for some reason for Budget reasons it doesn't get done right away it's just a it's a kit of Parts the structure that holds it is all in place so you know that's why we had those as ad alternates um if for some reason the budget you know doesn't meet that it's designed so that you can add it in at any time often at the end of the project you have leftover contingency money you just put it in it's not a big deal but you're right the whole idea is to try and keep all that stuff in there y I had a question actually on can we go to that his read notes on the itemized budget so I got the uh breakdown from you for the budgets you had this you know the total project the TCP you had an item right near the top that said onus contingency 5% yes and then I so I included it in the number that I did as well when I summarized the categories of the scope of work where divisional work then you put another one that recently when you came back you said contingency needs to be included carry 600,000 I didn't see how you included it it wasn't clear to me if you did have it in there I want to carry it as a line item not as a um not included in the basic estimate should be if you want to pull it out as a line item that's not that's an item that is is for unforeseen conditions and situations and errors emissions quite honestly ly but I I know why I had it now because the summaries that I got from the other projects that I used to develop this division of work yeah that note was in there that it said overhead and profit P&P Bond and contingency were General conditions that all were in that those line items the separate items instead of yeah that's not in those we we carry that that the estimator doesn't see our well I asked the estimator when he's when he does the complete detailed one he carries that as a line item that we see at the bottom it's not in the pno and and the general conditions okay well it's yeah it adds up to the just a misunderstanding it's 5% in there already yeah we'll work it all there yeah but the answer to Ellen's question is we're trying to put everything we POS with the can in there and try to want come and say oh it's going to be 600,000 exactly all right so to Ken's earlier question do we does the committee feel like we want to take a vote about either the cost or the timeline are both um we are missing three committee members this evening um I would I would say the cost is going to get further refined as we go and I wouldn't vote on it until we're getting really close to a town meeting we have the most refined number we have yeah the real idea is is once the the the first phase of the final design which is we call it schematic uh that gives us a much much more detailed dimensioned building where all of the pieces you know the electric room the fire the fire pump room all that stuff is in there and um my Engineers have already I've already notified them to start looking at the feasibility study with any comments they might have but the uh that first phase of the drawings which you you you got close to the right amount of money it's a little shy but it's not a big deal um that allows us to to have a really tight we know what the footprint is period the concrete all that stuff falls into place J K point so the question is for the November 19th select board meeting what is our ask of the select board at that time and uh I guess do we want to vote on refining that or do we have exactly what it is we are asking the select board to do on November 19th I would suggest that you we treat November 19th as an informational update to the select room so no action no vote even from them because they won't take any action um on the 19th with respect to the special town meeting but I think it's important for the select board and the public granted this is a public meeting but I think at that meeting for the select board to be given a brief update as to where the committee is with the project overall because you've done a lot of great things and then just have a brief discussion and we'll all be there about sort of this I want to call it a conundrum but this issue of the the timeline and the funding piece and that way so as we as the committee moves forward to refine this it's not going to be a surprise to the select but it's on their radar screen right but in terms of the timeline we are in fact looking at special Town meetings between February and March and we want to give the select board we want to help the select board understand that we have taken this responsibility seriously and we are not in fact rushing it y the longer the time distance between us going to the select board and the so if we don't ask for a date on November 19th now we're asking for we're asking for a date at a select board meeting sometime in December yep or so that's kind of I think I want so what I all I would say is that I I think it's important that the select board understand that we want to give the public as much information and as much time to absolutely and and to the extent that we can ask for a specific date um it it's all to the good yep I think you say just like that at the meeting so I think for the 19th through the chair for what it's worth the purpose of the 19th is twofold one is to give them in the public a general update of the things that you've done since the last time but more importantly and we'll all be that explain you know this is where we're at we're at with the timeline and this is the challenge we have this is the the timeline schedule and this is the funding and we have we take this very serious all the stuff that was said tonight in a condens version there and that we are considering all options which include a special town meeting um that the earliest it could be in in K just for the sake of discussion the earliest realistically would be February but perhaps more realistically in March and and that's the goal on the 19th and there'll be some give and take they will appreciate a the update it puts it on their radar screen and knowing the board they wouldn't vote if you went in there and had a specific date they still wouldn't vote on the 19th they would do it in December cu want to take it under consideration and what have you because it's a it's a big deal the advantage to December and the advantage to coming back to talk to them again in December is that we may have some of this environmental stuff done by then as well yeah so in December we will have that is I think that the select board will want a recommendation from us about what date we think we can have all our in a row for the meeting and our due diligence has been done sufficiently to Warrant a special town meeting so at some point we the committee I think are going to have to recommend to the select board this is the dat we think works best for all parties and I that's a month away we should be able to get that done by then I was just gonna say I think you still have another meeting you still have another month to shape a lot of stuff and and you're still on Target but I do think for the 19th the update which we've sort of had the dress rehearsal for will be good and then we will still submit the conceptual project because they know it's coming to the capital planning committee for October 31st so it meets the deadline and then the capital planning committee will meet on November 6 at which time they will schedule when they want to meet so this group will know when they're going to take up the the project and and they'll coordinate that and Madam chair and Kurt can I could I ask does the fin do you have anticipate any questions or in terms of the finance committee seeking additional information or how they would like to be um addressed as this process moves forward do you have any words of wisdom or suggestions um at this point um I feel the committee members have expressed their concerns clearly and they've been answered clearly also um so as an advisory committee um I think our next step is to uh observe there's going to be the public meeting on seven Capital planning is going to be brought into play select board is going be communicated with so I think um we've done our initial assessment well and now we need to uh wait for more information and then Circle back and uh see if we need an not okay all right thanks for that all right wonderful so um is there any other discussion about the timeline and I have a question on the timeline yeah when when do you think the earliest the assessment or the borings could be completed borings we could get out there by within the next month I think I just goture a uh you know make sure that they they have time to do it a driller yeah so nothing would really be ready until the the December meeting for the the for the board yeah you mean you mean before the select board meeting on November I'm just curious if anything would be done before the no November meeting or oh the November meeting so no no or is it going to be yeah I don't think I'll have the report from the driller yet but probably would have drilled and I would know what happened so we would have an idea for John and to know if there's any big issue with the was standing there with him when they're doing problem not what's that we're going to know when we're standing there with the driller yeah he's doing yeah and obviously I would check if you hit o yeah yeah I think I don't get that moving so you know to call for that you got someone yeah there's there's a couple firms I'll throw it up there probably Whoever has the you availability avability we have to give we'll have to give Dan a layout where we want yeah exactly we'll we'll do a maximum number and we'll do them in in By Priority in case they can't get them all done in a day yeah I'll Conn with you John wonderful so in term terms of um well I think actually I before we go to public input I just want to recap some of the tasks that we have laid out um the town manager is going to report back on um you guys we going to discuss about when to bring on the OPM Dan Dan Ken and I will talk about that and report back on the OPM pce great um and then Dan is going to nudge National Grid and reach out to PanAm and um add the borings and a potential traffic study to the timeline um and then uh the let's see Katie Dan and Robert are going to submit the capital request yeah I I will draft the select board update for the November 19th meeting um oh um make the adjustment for the schematic design um for that Gap to push that further back and then um John you were going to get the list the locations of the borings did I miss any of the tasks there so the November 7th public forum oh did you mention that um yeah yes so um I'm GNA invite Linda and Ellen to a meeting to further refine um for for that meeting and I will make the changes that we discussed um that I've heard feedback from a couple of people on that one pager so that they'll be ready for Monday night do you need help in the booth at town meeting well before town meeting or who are you anticipating having there yeah I I think any of the committee members are are welcome to come I'm not exactly sure what the the layout will be but I know that we'll have some space and we'll have room for the four easel um so any of the committee members that would like to come for that probably just hour before the meeting would be most welcome all right uh is there any public input today there an iPhone there Katie got their hand up oh I'm sorry yes thank you go ahead hi Katie it's paen Robert knows this is my secret sign on from Colman's meetings um just one comment no criticism Ellen was asking about public input and no response and so on and so forth I'm a senior 73 years in I've not received any communication whatsoever from this committee or the senior center or anywhere else about this project plus I know there is a lot about it because I follow you but there must be some Gap somewhere um well I I guess I there's not really a gap because we haven't started the broadscale public input process we're we're ready to start that now we've been doing smallscale things with the current users and then we just started with Newton Street Festival and so I think November 7th uh the town the table at town meeting and then the November 7th public input session would be the beginning of something where the broader public would be would be engaged in that way well at least that's clarifying because I see people as D KY and nobody seems to know much about what this going to cost them and the residential tax pay are concerned because they're facing a number of expenses in the coming um fiscal year not the least of which is storm water so you don't need competing efforts but I just feel that I tell people what I can um and I try to be very neutal uh but public Outreach for this project is going to is the only way you're going to sell it is all I good luck with that agreed public input is is very much a priority thanks Pauline my good news Katie is I'm not gonna be here when it gets to that point so I'm good anyway good luck with that I hope you will be I hope you will be there on our brand ribbon cutting Day by the time this thing is finally paid for I'll be well over a hundred years old and I'm hoping I'm not here talking to you you have a good night everyone thank you you too Paulie thank you right so in terms of our um next meeting do we want to meet um prior to November 7th or um that would be two weeks November 6 this two weeks exactly um do we want to meet prior to that to go over um details of the public input process um I think it's probably a good idea we want to all you know get our act together and who's going to do what who's going to say what and what are we going to hand out and what are we going to have for displays and things like that so that it comes this will be the first one will be the last one that I think it'll be good idea it just it give time to print like decide and print what you want well she has a sub she has substantial uh that was at the Newton Street Festival okay I mean the large in terms of the in terms of the visuals for November 7th Katie we have enough of them or do you need any more uh I think we can probably use the ones that we have um but we certainly want to go over the presentation and you know idea who's going to say who's going to say what um and you know we've got a good start to it thus far but I'm sure with multispeaker format we're going to want to modify that a bit so then being on the same page is important to agreed so fourth fifth or sixth we ask John to submit a proposal for the schematic it's called it's 30% right is that the right number John yeah I I actually sent over a a a draft um um what do they call phase two contract we can just break off the schematic part of it got it's a little bit more than what you have for funds but we have 10 grand I think still left over that was going to be for town meeting which I think I can integrate that into the um into the schematic set and um I'll send over uh I get over the Katie and and U thank you send around we can if there chance we can start looking for other GRS Rob that we can get our hands on yeah I mean I'm going to there's a couple small sources but yeah let's talk about that it's not real big money then Katie has identified or Katie and I have Identify some potential grants M um there's one especially intriguing about trying to get the Broadband down that street because that particular location is an underserved location because it doesn't exist yet nothing on it there's no complete Street stuff now going at this point in time and we we we just did the project on Sandy pawn and you can't apply again for four years Okay so anyway yeah good thought though so when will we meet Katie so I think the options are um the fourth and the sixth so um the fifth is election day I don't know if people want to meet on that day we certainly can't meet in town hall that day right so um but is dat I'm not available and Carolyn's not going to be available if we meet on the 6th either so is everyone available on the 4th the only caveat on the 4th is the select board is meeting on the 6th at six because of the election oh okay we can be done yeah we can meet at the senior center Robert if we're talking mostly about um the presentation for the seventh I don't know that you'd have to be at that one you know what I'm saying like I don't think it'd be I have to be to select for the transfer station per oh okay I think public Outreach yeah you guys need to what about the 30th and 31st is that oh um no sitting on my front steps for couple we could do the 30th or the fourth you can come sit on our porch maybe the fourth what time does 6 PM work for everyone Y and that's going to be at the senior center yes and thank you everyone for uh rolling with the location change I'm down in fouth for Massachusetts council's on Aging conference so the center is closed tonight okay so Monday November 4th at 6: pm at the senior center all right wonderful uh do I have a any last comments or a motion to adjourn I move that the meeting be adjourned second um let's see now I have to go back through um Ellen hi Ken hi Linda hi Dennis hi Bonnie hi Dan hi and the chair says I so I declare us adjourned at 8:02 p.m.