today is Wednesday May 15 2024 6 PM zoning board of appeals hybrid meeting this meeting hearing of the zoning board of appeals will be held in person at the location provided on this notice members of the public are welcome to attend this inperson meeting please note that while option for remote attendance and our participation via Zoom is being provided as a courtesy to the public meeting SL hearing will not be suspended or terminated if NE technical problems interrupt the virtual broadcast unless otherwise required by law members of the public with particular interest and a specific item on this agenda should make plans for inperson versus virtual attend attendance accordingly this meeting will be live on Zoom public May access the proceedings by joining Zoom meeting ID 857 9728 7177 or by calling 31262 66799 for additional information about remote participation please contact Samantha Bono administrative coordinator at zba a.m. us or 978-772-4864 all in favor say I I I next item on the agenda zba training Council training session with Town Council you're up ma'am hello everyone how hi um my name is Amy qule um serve as land use Town Council for air um so I have a PowerPoint for you um Mr chairman it is up to you I don't mind um I Don't Mind questions as I go I Don't Mind questions at the end whatever's easier for you I think it'd be easier for us all concerned if if something came up they would question that right there sure rather than try to remember it yeah thank you so can I ask you a question go ahead so how did how did this develop and how did this town of air zoning act get developed so we do train um we I am at KP law we represent approximately um 186 municipalities um and part of our representation of municipalities is we offer trainings um sometimes it's um two there's two trainings a year sometimes four trainings a year um in all different subjects the trainings these trainings are of no cost to the town um and we usually try and do a land use training we try and do an open meeting law training sometimes we do a procurement training and sometimes we will do uh public records training so um the um Town manager had asked for um in this go around to have a land use training done so when I read through this all it really does is highlight what we're already doing per the air zoning walls correct this is geared towards air so what we do is we I I have this PowerPoint I um I I take it in general and then I gear it towards the municipality that I'm going to so there I have a so for example I have a municipality where the planning board is every single every single special permit is granted by only by the planning board not none are granted by the zba so for example that PowerPoint would be different obviously so um so you you know your zoning board um is pretty um you know it's it's pretty standard it's a it's this it is um you have a mix of um special permit granting Authority is a mix between planning board and Zoning Board there's actually a couple that the select board are the um permit special permit granting Authority all right okay so um I will move on so um on the next slide um that's just a disclaimer and then the next slide um we have um so the zoning act the statute dates back to 1920 it was recod it was codified in um as 40a in 1954 and the version that we use today is 1975 um and the purpose of the ACT is to establish consistent Statewide um we can do the next slide thank you um um so to do um consistent Statewide framework for the regulation of land uses um to encourage the adoption of modern zoning bylaws in compliance with the Massachusetts Constitution we can get into a few of the changes with 4A that um have happened recently um provide standardized procedures to administer Municipal zoning laws provides municipalities with building blocks to help each Community shape and preserve its character by encouraging the appropriate uses of land so um the purpose of your zoning bylaw is to promote the general welfare protect the health and safety of inhabitants and encourage the most appropriate use of land throughout Town provide adequate light clean air uh limit pollution preservation of natural historic Scenic aesthetic qualities um encourage the preservation of historic land uses and structures to increase the amenities um facilitate adequate provisions of Transportation water water supply drainage sewage schools parks open space and other public requirements further the goals of your comprehensive plan and your master plan and to reduce um the hazard from fire by regulating location and use of buildings the your purpose section of your zoning bylaw is pretty standard um the goals of the zoning act are for um essentially health safety and public convenience to achieve those goals um you have zoning districts that have specific boundaries for example you would have industrial uses residential uses and you have these zoning districts that put those uses in the those districts um the uses of these structures are defined for each zoning District there's dimensional requirements that change throughout districts and conditions under which uses may be permitted um that's mostly your special permit uses so um the administration of the ACT you have the adoption of a zoning bylaw which um a zoning bylaw will authorize the issuance of various permits by designated person or special granting Authority so um under 40a Section 1A a special permit granting Authority can be the planning board zoning board of appeals or select board you also have the Building Commissioner that will issue building permits um and then section two of your Zone zoning bylaw um specifically states that um the zoning board of appeals the planning board and in some cases the board of Selectmen are the spga which is the special permit granting Authority um so the administration of the ACT um and your bylaw essentially start with the building department so um under your under your bylaw section 3.1a the bylaw shall be enforced by the building inspector um so enforcement is first determined by The Building Commissioner if a party is not happy with a determination um an appeal may be filed to this board and that's in accordance with 40a sections 8 and 15 and your zoning bylaw um the zoning board of appeals under the um statute and your bylaw tracks the statute um allows you to or or I guess not really allows but um but requires the zoning board of appeals to hear all variant all findings that are under 48 section 6 which is extensions or of non-conforming uses or structures um you are also to hear all appeals from the decision of the building commissioner or zoning enforcement officer um speci you um the Z the board of appeals has some special permits that you are the special permit granting Authority and you are also charged with um hearing and deciding on uh comprehensive permits which are 40b applications um so um under the ad Administration under the act the planning board is um charged with an anr plans subdivision control law zoning amendments some special permits and um site plan review um under your bylaw and then um common land use land use statutes and regulations that are not within jurisdiction um you don't have to worry about are the State Building Code Title 5 subdivision control law Wetland protection act and chapter 91 um any great ponds um uses so under the zoning bylaw you have to define the zoning bylaw must Define what uses are allowed by right what uses are prohibited what uses are exempt what uses are allowed by special permit and what uses are subject to site plan review if any um Allowed by right and exempt are different just um keep that in mind um byright uses are um zoning bylaws that expressly allow a certain category of land use with no approval other than a building permit and sometimes site plan review so um the table of uses in your bylaw designated with a p and they may be subject to site plan review which is section 3.5 um prohibited uses so um zoning bylaws can prohibit certain uses of land in certain zoning districts your section 5.1 provides that no no land shall be used and no structure shall be erected or used except as set forth in the following table of use regulations including the notes to the table or as otherwise set forth herein or as Exempted under chapter 48 Section 3 any building or use of a premises not herein expressly permitted is hereby prohibited so therefore you have what we call a prohibitive zoning bylaw meaning if there is a use that is not on your use chart it is not allowed so this becomes an issue um when new when New Uses pop up for example back I want to say maybe 10 to 7 years ago we had issues with and I can never say the word with breweries never say that right um breweries were popping up everywhere and they were not listed on zoning bylaws and sometimes they didn't serve food so they couldn't be classified as a restaurant so if that were the case under your bylaw that would not be allowed because you have a prohibitive bylaw which is why we don't have short-term rentals right your b&bs correct great okay correct um so um the next subject is non-conformities which you guys deal with I'm sure quite a bit um because those are where you have your section six findings non-conformities are structures within setbacks structures that are too high um buildings or structures exceeding lot coverage undersized Lots um you have a use that is no longer allowed that would be a non-conforming use or any situation that's not in accordance with the zoning bylaw um uses and structures that lawfully exist prior to the adoption or amendment of a zoning bylaw may continue um protection can be lost if there's a significant change in the nature and purpose quality or character or use or altered use imposed uh or altered use imposes an impact different in kind on the neighborhood there's a case the powers case in it there's a Powers test that helps you decide um if the use has been has changed so significantly that it's no longer protected and that is the purpose the nature and purpose the quality character things like that um your non-conformities are dealt with under Section 7 of your zoning bylaw and um you do have special protections for single and two family uses those are also specially protected in the zoning bylaw itself I mean in the in the um statute under Section 48 under 48 section 6 so um for non-conforming single and two family residential dwellings um an alteration reconstruction extension or structural change of a non-conforming single or two family residential structure is legitimated under 48 section 6 if it does not increase the non-conforming nature of said structure and that is first determined by The Building Commissioner um and any expansion alteration or intensification that increases an existing non-conformity requires a finding that the change is not substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood um and your zoning bylaw requires a special permit in that case so um under Section 7.2a the building inspector can issue a building permit to allow an alteration um only in certain circumstances it's on a lot that does not conform to the current minimum lot area so when you have an undersized lot The Building Commissioner May issue a building permit if the alteration uh reconstruction extension um complies with all current setbacks lot coverage and Building height requirements um and then there's accessory buildings and structures that um he can issue a building permit for um if they're um 10% um if it's if they do not exceed 10% of the dwellings gross floor area um also on a lot that conforms to the minimum lot area requirement but is non-conforming due to insufficient Frontage or setbacks The Building Commissioner also has some um leeway there where they he can um issue a building permit if the alteration um does not increase the footprint of the dwelling by more than 50% and does not include demolition of the existing dwelling and again also accessory buildings and structures it's important to remember this is only for single and two family dwellings um so uh there's a two-part inquiry that when these come into the building department the first is to identify what the actual non-conformity is and that's not as easy as it seems It's not the easiest thing to do but to figure out exactly how this property is non-conforming and then to determine what the alteration how would that intensify existing non-conformities or result in new one if it results in a new non-conformity then a variance would be required so if a project does not intensify non-conformities or create new ones the applicant is automatically entitled to a building permit without additional zoning relief if it does intensify the non-conformity then this board has to make the section six finding and your finding is to whether the proposed change extension or alteration will be substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood um and then we move into exempt uses which are uh under 40a Section 3 those are sometimes called the do Amendment um and under the do Amendment under section three under the first and first second and third paragraphs you cannot prohibit restrict or unreasonably regulate um certain uses so the exempt uses are um commercial agriculture res uh religious purposes education and child care um solar is not exclusively exempt it's under the unreasonably regulate however um commercial agriculture religious education and child care you cannot regulate but solar you can regulate but you cannot unreasonably regulate solar um so under these do uses the um the ones that are more prevalent are education and and religion um no zoning bylaw can prohibit regulate or restrict the use of land and for religious purposes or for educational purposes um municipalities may not deny a use that is subject to the do exemption special permits cannot be required and the standard to determine do protected uses are whether the uses and structures have a Bonafide goal that can be reasonably described as educationally significant and the goal must be the primary purpose for which the land or structures will be used um the way to the the common way to determine Dober which which was a process that was set by the Regis College case was to look to the um incorporating documents the corporate documents at the Secretary of State's office um such land or structures may be subject to reasonable regulation such as the bulk and height of structures parking yard sizes lot area setbacks open space and building coverage requirements those are set by the building department they can they can look to like they can look at certain certain certain things and those things are listed in the statute and the case law which is again the bulk and height of structures parking yard sizes lot area setbacks open space and building coverage um the applicant can challenge the local Lo any local requirements as unreasonable as applied to its proposed project and further demonstrate that compliance would substantially diminish or detract from the usefulness of a proposed structure or impair the character of the land structure without appreci ly advancing the municipality's legitimate concerns um who would they challenge uh go to the state it would go to court land Court it would go to land court or superior court because it would be a challenge under 4A so um and um there is significant um there's a significant presumption to overcome as a municipality so um they they're very hard to challenge so um the the one of the most significant cases is the um the Mormon um Church on route two and the height of the spear Spire thank you um that was challenged and it was found to be religious purpose so it is allowed so that the town couldn't do anything I think it was um Lexington what's an example some the unreasonable so um I had one actually which was um in Watertown um Buckingham Brown and Nichols um was putting in an athletic facility and they put they had the Athletic Facility approximately maybe 5 ft from a very busy street and they had an entrance and the Building Commissioner said that was that was not reasonable um that there needed to be a more significant setback and um they they did they they um they push the building back um parking has been found so a church that um wants to you know build a church but not provide any parking that's not reasonable because obviously you're building a church for people to come to the church so you have to have reasonable parking um so we've had a challenge as to parking that um that was uh resolved before before it went to court action but it was resolved okay so there's and there's also screening um you know screening could be you know could go towards the bulk and height of um the structure and setbacks things like that um so under solar solar is a is its own animal solar is um under section three uh paragraph n which says that no zoning ordinance or bylaw May shall prohibit or unreasonably regulate the installation of solar energy systems or building of structures that facilitate the collection of solar energy except where necessary to protect the public health safety or welfare so solar is not protected at the same level as education and religion um solar companies will tell you different and but I do not agree with them um there's a this a case Tracer Lane which came out in 20122 which stated that um the uh city of walam was wrong in prohibiting um a solar use in their town because they only had one they only dedicated 1 to 2% of their town they only allowed solar within 1 to 2% of their of their City not town I'm sorry and um tracer Lane found that that was unreasonable and but Tracer Lane did say that solar is not protected at the level of religion or education um so municipalities do retain authority over the sighting of solar energy uses um it just depends on really how much of your town is zoned to allow solar is there any ever any conflict with solar increasingly with open space um in terms of destruction of un so there is always it's always brought up unfortunately um the Commonwealth is um very much pro-solar so um it's it's it would be very hard to challenge that um we do have um there are com a common um bylaws that um to try and um regulate clear cutting that really hasn't been really hasn't been challenged fully um so um for timelines for a special permit um your application is filed with the town clerk hearing has to be opened within 65 days the board votes and files a decision with the town clerk within 90 days of the closure of the hearing there is no between the opening and the closing there is no set time period for a special permit um if an applicant uh requests that the hearing be closed the hearing should be closed um for a variance or an appeal of a building um building inspector's decision or building commissioner's decision the application is filed with the town clerk the hearing has to be opened within 65 days and the board has to vote within a 100 days of that application being filed with the town clerk so in that instance you do have a time limit and um the decision has to be filed with the town clerk within 14 days so the maximum amount of time you have on a variance or an appeal is 114 days from the date of filing even if the applicant gives an extension no the applicant can that's at the bottom of that slide the applicant can always agree to a condition uh to an extension of time um all extensions should be in writing and they should be filed with the town clerk um a comprehensive permit is application is filed with the town clerk hearing has to be opened within 30 days hearing has to be closed within 180 days and the decision has to be um filed with the town clerk within 40 days um now all of these timelines um except for the hearing must be open within 65 days um the um the timelines are extremely significant because they result in constructive approval which means that if you don't make the timeline the applicant gets whatever they applied for backing up you said the special permit has no time limit on the the duration of the public hearing unlike the variance which has 100 days from the time that filed so if you open up a variance on the 65th day you only have 35 days to hear that if you open a special permit on the 65th day you have until the applicant demands that the hearing be closed to close it for a special permit so um but on a special permit if we didn't open it until 66 days then it's constructive approv it's not it's it's it's directory not mandatory the case law has said but I would not push it yeah yeah so um so for the Quantum of vote um for a five member board you have a special permit is a super majority which is 4 fths uh finding is a majority variance is a super majority zoning appeal is a super majority which are both um four fths and a comprehensive permit is a majority if there is a motion to approve an application it's made and it fails to achieve the necessary votes for approval the motion failed and the project is deemed denied um it is not necessary to do a housekeeping motion to State there's a denial but you can choose to do so that is that's up to the chairman um in reviewing applications you want to review the nature of the proposed project whether it's residential commercial industrial you want to note what relief is sought um special permit variants you always want to have a current zoning bylaw and current zoning map um as you know zoning amendments can happen at Town meetings so you want to have the most recent um you want to determine what zoning District the property is located in you want to review the plan for existing conditions for non-conformities you want to knowe what required dimensional or use controls are out there and you want to determine if any non-conformities will be increased um to issue a defendable decision um there are requirements for voting in the decision in the um incl to include in the motion um these it's it's important to have these in there it's not fatal if you don't um you want to have the identity of the applicant or the property owner the full address of the property or some kind of identifying information maybe just the assessors if it's a you know a zero Main Street property you can do the assessors uh the jurisdictional basis for the decision such as 48 section 10 or your zoning bylaw section um you want to have findings of fact that are required under the applicable statute or bylaw so for your um special permit if you grant a special permit you want to list your findings of fact in accordance with the zoning bylaw if you grant a variance you want to list your findings of fact based on 4A section 10 which has the three prongs for a variance um can we just go into that a little more for the findings of fact how procedurally the board would do that sure so um so you can do the findings of fact there's a couple ways that you can do them you can do them you can State findings and the board can then vote on the findings you can then issue a motion to approve or deny a project so you can do it in two votes or you can do it um you can do it with a vote to approve or deny the project and then you can then come back to memorialize your vote in a decision and that decision can be drafted and then you can come back with a draft decision and the draft decision can then be voted upon and the draft decision would have the findings and the draft decision would that be voted on at that meeting or the next meeting it would be at it could be either one it could be at that meeting or the next meeting depending on how you think you're going to do this so for example when I um assist a town in a 40b um I draft the draft decision with all of the findings and all of the conditions and I present it to the board and the board then votes on the draft the draft findings and the draft conditions and then they you know and they vote to approve or deny and that's all done in one meeting if you if you're doing say a special permit you can vote on it you can discuss findings in your deliberations and then you can go back have it drafted and come back and memorialize it when you vote on that decision at the next meeting so contrary to what we've been doing for many years we should be doing two votes really a vote on approved and then a vote on the findings or you could do the you could say all the findings and you can say I I move to approve and that could be the vote on all of it it could be one vote but you're um you need to have findings in your decisions so for an example like with the planning board I like for a project that's coming before us for the next meeting I have DEC I already have a decision that's written out completely with findings for the special permit and for the site plan approval cuz each of those bylaws have criterias within them so it's already written out and then at the next planning board hearing we'll review it with any comments and then at that meeting it'll they'll approve the decision with the and the project okay I'm just thinking about timelines for us yeah that's where I you know I get concerned we don't tie it up at that meeting yeah especially because you guys meet once a month so your your um findings can be verbal okay and they would be memorialized by Sam in your decision if you could send us like a draft of what that would look like definitely I could do that I have I have decisions that I could do that for um and then the other thing is that um you want to State um any relief not expressly granted here under is hereby denied in all of yours so um under your special permits um you want special permits are uh they provide for specific types of uses that can be permitted in specific districts upon the issuance of a special permit so I like to consider special permits as it's not a use that you know can definitely be allowed it's kind of like a it might be able to be allowed but it might not be so for example you know um two family dwellings in a single family in a single family residential district you can maybe allow duplexes by special permit because they're still residential they're not high density um and it depends on the actual neighborhood and that's that's so that's what we get into so for your um special permits which are under Section 3. for um you um you have to um a special permit can only be granted upon a written determination that the adverse effects of the proposed use will not outweigh its beneficial beneficial impacts to the town or the neighborhood um and then you have the social and economic or Community needs which are served traffic flow and safety including parking and loading adequacy of utilities and other public services neighborhood character social structures impacts on the natural environment and potential fiscal impacts including the impact on Town Services tax base and employment so you want to go through all of those considerations and you want to determine whether this special permit use is going to have a beneficial impact on the town that outweighs any impact to the neighborhood um by going through all of those so a special permit it is a discretionary permit it um allows for the use or dimensional requirements to be imposed under a discretionary Authority where you evaluate whether it's in harmony with the purpose and intent of the bylaw um yes sorry to interrupt again Amy the previous slide those factors are they do they have equal status or can the planning board zoning board have they waited they're not so they you know and and not all of them have to be met the ultimate decision by this board is is it not more detrimental to the neighborhood does the benefit outweigh any perceived harm is really what it comes down to your bylaw is there to kind of help you make that determination and quite honestly help keep the Zoning Board in their Lane meaning if you didn't have these six items you know would you be looking at impacts to schools or police or fire which really isn't you know part of they need to be limited to these yes these six items yes that would be the whole reason for approving or denying yep thank you what's difficult to weigh though is some of uh like the neighborhood character mhm um highly subjective yes and like one one uh application that you know we no longer have authority over special permits for duplexes but um we had a petition of 60 signatures from the neighborhood and packed room and um and it seems that that's all very subjective but it there was a lot of intensity to that valuation of impact to neighbor neighborhood care so so unfortunately that decision is on you not it you have to make that decision whether in your opinion would a would a duplex have more harm to that neighborhood than than benefit so for example um you know would that duplex create parking issues would it create traffic issues would it be um you know is there are there any other duplexes in that neighborhood um things like that you it's a it's a public hearing which I I will get into it's a public hearing so the chairman you know has to allow for public comment so you will get public comment but as an appointed member of this board it's up to you to make that decision um a decision based on um 60 people in opposition would be very hard to defend in in court so sort of a moot point now anyway so you're saying it should be factored in yes decision of the board it is evidence it's evidence that has come before this board that's been presented to this board but you have to take you have to weigh that evidence and you have to make that decision you can't just say we're not doing this because 60 people don't like it so um special permits can be um they can be conditioned which allows for greater creativity or flexibility in permitting certain uses and an applicant is not entitled to a special permit um and so um for decisions on a special permit um your local bylaws provide adequate standards and yours does um your special permits need to be limited to the criteria detailed in the bylaw um you can't refuse to issue the special permit for reasons unrelated to standards that are in the bylaw so for example the character of the applicant something you know if you have um a developer that's come before you before and has not followed through on their permit or something like that that can't be taken into consideration um and you can't so again you can't base a decision on the reputation or the character of the applicant um your decisions when you are um reciting the required legal determinations um and reasons for your decisions you have to give specific reasons supporting the actual specific project so for example you cannot say that the project would not be more substantially detriment substantially more detrimental you could say the project would not be substantially more detrimental because it would add 500 square ft to an existing single family dwelling that is lawfully non-conforming it would not create any additional impacts on the neighborhood with respect to traffic or interfere with light and air it would conform visually to the size of the neighborhood of the dwellings that already exist in the neighborhood and so bottom line is the special permit granting Authority you have to give reasons for um your denials and also you your findings for your approvals should also be reasons um so the zoning act does specifically authorize um imposing conditions safeguards and limitations on the time or use of the issuance of a special permit so for example you can do deadline to commence construction limitations on vehicles noise Landscaping hours of operations time limitation on a permit and renewal you have you also have um s um sample or suggested um conditions in 3.4 D um and a special permit unlike a variance may be conditioned on limiting its duration to the term of ownership or use by the applicant um and the special permit has to be exercised within 2 years that's under 34 or 3.4 G um so um when you have when a special permit is accompanied by PL or specs detailing the work to be undertaken those should become uh conditions of the issuance of the special permit um and submitted plans and specifications should be referenced and filed with the decision in that previous slide I'm sorry okay um said that he a um a special permit unlike a variance may be conditioned by limiting its duration to the term of ownership or use by the applicant is that so yeah so if somebody just comes and buys a property and then sells it immediately gets this um you know a um something under a special permit and just sells it immediately and another owner gets it so it will the the special perit will transfer unless specifically states that it's only subject to the to the applicant owner so that must be stated oh yes okay we do it only happens with regard to um in-law it happens and um also there is a case The Hop Garten case that allowed it that allowed the town of Lincoln to do that um with a solar project where the solar developer made a lot of promises to the town so they said okay we'll give this to you provided your your continued ownership of it so but that's not always the case cuz the accessible uh accessible building the one we just did those accessible units that's not transferable when that person sells the property that permit is no longer valid and the new uh whoever buys that property would have to apply for a new permit y for that accessory for adus okay yep you can do that that's probably in your bylaw specifically in your bylaw um that might change there's legislation out there that might change all that but yeah but that's that's what we go by now we go by what we go by what the zoning laws are now and we worry about what changes when it changes right they're being revised anyway they're being revised anyways I have a question some of these cuz I know in the past for special firms board has put like uh especially for like a home business a time limit should in the decision it include how to how and when to renew or if that time limit lasts so um special permits under the um under the ACT special permits are not there's no provision to extend or modify a special permit and the only way to do it is with a new public hearing so a new they have to notify all the Butters publicized in the paper come to you for a public hearing um as as you know the and under a variance you can extend it for 6 months but that's specific in the ACT there's nothing for special permits so they have to come back and if we're doing duration on something like that should we specify say the meeting we tonight we Grant a special permit for home occupation uh valid through May 15th 2026 or could we say 2 years what would be the right verbage to it's I've seen it done both ways um an actual concrete date would be the easiest for everybody um but I have seen it for a duration of 5 years and then for example my reading of that would be it would be 5 Years From the time that it has been the time it was filed with the town clerk um and 20 days were the 20 days have gone and there's been no appeal okay and that would be date stamped by the town clerk but again it would be much easier if you had a specified it date um so um their delegation of authority um conditions that attempt to delegate or defer decisions have been rejected so for example um you cannot say that the special permit can be granted provided that um or can be extended the um provided that the Building Commissioner determines that there's you know that there's been no violation or something like that you can't delegate that Authority you either you either um issue the special permit or don't issue the special permit so um for variances your bylaw does not specifically um reference the three prongs of a variance your bylaw specifically references 4A section um 10 which has the three prongs so um variances um are from terms of the local bylaw um and they are primarily um dimensional um use variances are um you they are not specifically allowed if they're not specifically allowed in the bylaw um they are prohibited the statute says that except where local ordinances or bylaws shall expressly permit variances for use no variance may be authorized for a use or activity not otherwise permitted in The District in which the Lander structure is located your bylaw specifically allows for Ed variances so your bylaw under 3.2 B2 three says to hear and decide appeals or petitions for variances from the use dimensional or density requirements of this bylaw so you guys do allow for use um variances not many communities do all allow for use Varian um so the required findings for granting a variance um is the first prong is We on to the next slide is um soil shape or topography you have to make a finding that the land can contains a unique circumstance relating to soil conditions shape or Topography of the land or structure which especially affects such Lander structure but not generally affecting the zoning District in which it is located this is extremely hard to prove so for example a lot of times people come in and say my lot is undersized and look at how small my lot is and if you can see all the Lots in my neighborhood are small so I should be able to do this so right there they've killed themselves because you can't say all Lots in the neighborhood are small it has to be a unique situation um so for example Wetlands um it's highly unusual for a wetland to only affect one lot I have seen it done I have seen it happen but usually wetlands are in a swath and so a wetland will cut across numerous properties um same with ledge although there was someone that brought in a Geo physic and brought in somebody and proved that the ledge was only on their property but again it's hard to prove that ledge is only on one property um and then shape um shape is probably the easiest one to um to prove because there are circumstances where um say for example when before a before a bylaw was um amended they allowed for say um pork chop lots and there's one pork chop lot in a in a neighborhood that is an unusual shape and that person needs a a a variance from a setback because of the shape of their lot um so number one is always the hardest one to prove number two is hardship which is um the easiest one because the ACT specifically states that um Financial or otherwise so there's always going to be a financial hardship and then the public good and that is um essentially if they can meet number one and two this board has the discretion to determine if desirable relief can be granted without substantial detriment to the public good and without nullifying or substantially derogating from the intent and purpose of the bylaw um I can tell you that I have zoning by I have zoning boards that never Grant a um they never Grant variances because um they would be derogating from the intent and purpose of the bylaw so really the the the question would be are is this substantially derating from the intent and purpose of the bylaw so why have a zba if that's the case I mean truly if they never Grant a variance well they I talked to somebody from duckberry once and he said it very similar I told him I'd been on the board for a number of years and he said I don't think in my 30 years I've seen them Grant the variance and I thought you guys got it so so that not one variance was needed in almost 30 years they don't have I I I represent duckberry and I can tell you they don't have a lot of variance applications that come before them um they don't they um I'd have to I have to think back I don't think they allow use variances but um but again there has to be a situation where you have to be able to meet prom one okay and if you can meet the first prom you know I could always argue that it it could it could be granted um but you have to meet that first wrong and um again like I said it's very hard to do um the case law that's out there specifically states that um that variances are not allowed as a matter of right but rather should be sparingly granted and um an applicant um so you um a grant they can a gr a variance can be granted only if all three proms are met it can't just be one or two it has to be all three the burden is on the applicant and um an applicant is not entitled to a variance decisions are easily appealed um and the other thing is that you cannot have a self-created hardship so a lot of times there will be a somebody that wants to subdivide uh a property and they have say it's 100 ft of Frontage as required they have 98 ft of Frontage so they create one lot with 100 ft of Frontage and one lot with 98 ft and they come to you and they say we want a variance from the 100 ft Frontage we're only two we're only 2T off give us the variance you can't that's a self-created hardship clear we we can't you can't cuz it's a self-created hardship understood they actually created their own hardship by subdividing it got it so there is um numerous cases out there got it the whan case is the most significant one with self-re that's the actual exact fact pattern that I just gave you talking about financial hardship what type of proof I mean they could just come and just say we need we need a 100 units it's financial hardship but but what kind of concrete proof do they need you would you could ask for them you know to show you that now again is a hardship that they have to make a certain profit exactly it's not that's not a hardship is yeah if they are paying taxes on a property that they cannot develop and they have a legit shape issue then that would be a financial hardship they are paying taxes as a developable property and they can't develop it but if they buy the property and then want to develop it and say losing this money cuz I purchased it yeah that's not really that's self-created yeah that really wouldn't be a hardship um other hardships are um I need the two feet of Frontage I need to create this lot with two less feet Frontage because I want to build a house for my mother and my mother's getting old and it's a hardship if I can't have my mother live next door to me that's not really hard what if they say something like oh Price Building Materials just skyrocketing so I need to make more units to offit the cust they have to prove that but again it becomes a situation where is it is it that they want to maximize their profit or make a profit or you know it it's very it's it's hard um there's not a lot of there's not a lot of hardship there's not a lot of variances that are denied on hardship because if you can meet the first prong courts will uphold variances but the courts very rarely uphold variances very rarely because they can never meet the first prom there was one case on right Road where it was already a non-conforming lot that didn't have Frontage was one of those that went in deep and then behind something else and they needed a I can't remember exactly what it was but they wanted to do a second unit right yeah they want to put the second house behind it is that it no not that was something else cuz I think we gave this one and I I can't remember what it was exactly well they wouldn't put the house further back but they were going to tear down the front house yeah I can't remember to be honest with yeah but if you had you had already a the lot was really hosed up I mean right remember it went down like a wedge yeah so in those cases that would be shape Factor would be a shape Factor so you could consider it probably probably depending on you have to look at the zoning you have to look at the zoning District the whatever District it was in and see if there are any other Lots Sim in a similar shape and that that really goes to um the subdivision plans from 1925 that had 2,000t lots and you know and if every lot is 2,000 ft then it doesn't qualify but if you have these weird shaped Lots yeah but say if you had a district where you had this very you know it wouldn't meet current criteria but it's it's very non-conforming doesn't have the right Frontage Etc um and say there's another similar property in the neighborhood but these were all sort of established way back before there were zoning bylaws is that unique enough it would depend if it's if it would I I I don't think you can have a shape um a shape reason if you have another property the exact same shape somewhere else but if if you have but if if there's another weirdly shaped property in the area yeah you probably have enough that this is unique this one this shape is unique um and it also depends on what they're looking for what they're looking to vary so if they're looking for say A you know a setback variance you have to look at the shape of the lot if there's nowhere they could if they could only build a shed by meeting all the all the setbacks then you know maybe they do need a variance and then you decide you know is there V is the variance that they're looking for does it fit in with the goals of the zoning bylaw so therefore you know for example are they going to put it one foot from the property line yeah or are they going to put it 10t when 20 is required you know you also have to look at what they're actually looking for and asking for um it's not they're not easy yeah they're not easy um so um variances um we can go on to the next slide variances can be extended for up to 6 months they lapse if they're not exercised within one year of the date granted so um to exercise you have to do more than recording at the registry of deeds you have to take some action in Reliance upon the variant and the question is has the permit substantially exercised their rights under the variant that really is probably it's really a question for the um for the building department because they'll come in with an application for a building permit and and they'll have to determine if the variance is still has lapsed or not um you can impose conditions um safeguards and limitations on time in use including the continued existence of any particular structures but exclude you cannot excl you cannot put any conditions safeguards or limitations on the continued ownership of the land a very very truly does run with the run with the land um the next subject is accommodations for persons with disabilities this is um most often um would only come to you as an appeal from a decision that the Building Commissioner has made um and that's under 48 Section 3 local land you and health uh local land use health and safety laws regulations practices ordinance bylaws and decisions um shall not discriminate against a disabled person and there's very limited case law on this um and then under the federal fair housing act it's unlawful to discriminate um against a person with a handicap by refusing to make a reasonable accommodation and so that's what um and it's for a reasonable accommodation necessary to afford such person equal opportunity to use and enjoy a dwelling so that really starts with the building um the building department and then if it were appealed it would come to you guys um and then when reviewing an application for zoning relief the board can consider whether the accommodation requested is reasonable and necessary to provide the applicant equal opportunity to enjoy the house so um it's the equ giving handicapped individuals the right to choose to live in a single family neighborhood um and uh where the state law provides for the public health and safety concerns 48 section or 40a Section 3 cannot exempt an applicant from complying with such state laws so for example if you have a group home they still would be required to have sprinklers CU that's a state law um so um moving on to the open meeting law um meetings have to be posted uh 48 hours ahead of time in an official location you have to have a quorum you cannot deliberate unless you are in an open meeting and a quorum is a majority of the members in office um a p uh for public hearings the public must have the same access access to the meeting as the board um there's no deliberating via email you can um perform scheduling via email and you can distribute um materials via email but the materials have to be available to the public my recommendation on this is just don't ever hit reply all just never um running a meeting um you have to the first thing you should do is confirm that the meeting has been posted in accordance with the open meeting law um you mostly have public hearings you want to read the public hearing notice um and I'm I think I know I'm saying you guys do this I've seen you um you read the public hearing notice or you announce the continued public hearing um and then again the next items are up to the chair and how the chair runs the meeting it is the chair's uh it is the chair's meeting under the open meeting law the chair does run the meeting um as suggested um is you allow the applicant to present the board can then ask comment and ask questions you can then have the public um ask questions you can allow the applicant to respond you deliberate and um with regard to public comment and the applicant um presentation you can limit the time um you have to when you do limit the time for public comments it has to be consistent meaning you can give everybody 2 minutes 3 minutes you can give the applicant 5 minutes 10 minutes um but if you do limit times you have to limit it to every body um a more formal um setting is recommended particularly if you have um any contentious hearings it always seems to make things go better um I I have served I served for 14 years on on a board so I I I do know and I was the chairperson for a long long time um funny story I was named the chairman when um at a meeting that I didn't attend I missed a meeting and I was named chairperson so um you might want to always attend meetings but um so um or actually I I didn't even miss the meeting I was late actually but anyway um so um again it's up to the chair but sometimes when you have a more um contentious hearing if you have for example if you have the applicant come up make their presentation have the applicant go sit down if you um you know make sure people raise their hands they're called on by the chair make sure all comments go through the chair um it tends to um it tends to I don't just in my experience it tends to bring emotions down a little bit when you have a more formal setting through the chair uh we've had you mean so you could limit time for public comments to say 2 minutes but what if somebody starts making a public comment that's totally not within our jurisdiction the chair yep the chair can definitely yep definitely shut it down and should and should um Amy what if you had a lot of public comment like say for instance an issue came up and people filled this room and around in the hall what would you do then you could we had that happen you have to twice that I remember should have a capacity do yeah for the fire marshal some so you cannot exceed capacity um and you um you could you know the public has to have the same access to the hearing to the to the public hearing that the board has and so it's up to the chair to determine if people standing in the hall are having the same access if they're standing if there's two people standing in the doorway you know that's the chair to determine if that's equal access or not something happened where you had like people packed you couldn't have you couldn't you just say if you're over capacity you can't have the meeting you have to continue so you continue okay what determines cap though is it just the number of chairs available no there's there's an actual number The Building Commissioner detered is that number for this room um I'd have to look I want to say 45 but I'm not I don't know that off the top of my head I have Charlie and if you had say every all 45 people wanted to speak for up to 2 minutes you have to let everybody you have to go on it's public I mean we like I said we've had this twice yeah as you're as you're well aware and yeah we had to afford every one of them the opportunity to speak you can encourage the public to not repeat themsel we have done that I know but you can't you can't muffle someone yeah and and limiting time also kind of helps that too if you've gone through the public comment period and then you've moved on to applicant can respond and then we deliberate and somebody from the public then wants to speak later so you what what you can do which most boards do but you don't have to do is after you allow the applicant to respond you take a motion to close the public hearing once you close the public hearing there is no more public comment and there is no more comment from the applicant you will get aggressive applicants and sometimes it helps to close the public hearing and then this board will sit and deliberate you're deliberating in you're in public deliberating but there can be no public comment from the public or the applicant so closing the public hearing doesn't mean that me closing the public hearing then means you still take official actions after that it just means no new information can be input into the meeting okay what we've been doing lately is saying we're we're closing the public input and then we're going to deliberation which is you know the same thing basically and and again provided that the chair has allowed for public comment that is perfectly fine because you can then say no we've already allowed for public comment and we've had a couple come in after we started to deliberating I want to make a comment yeah no yep and you can do that you as long as you've provided access to the public to make public comment you can do that so really just closing the public hearing is much more formal it also does it also gives you the opportunity to tell the applicant no more we're not listening anymore so so procedurally it would you you'd hear all the testimony and responses is close the public hearing and then you can sit and delivery and vote and then by formally closing the hearing it protects you from having anyone so after after you've closed the hearing you deliberate and you vote do you have to then again close because it's still open for us right no cuz no cuz you could actually oh we can just you could vote at the next meeting for example if you wanted to if you wanted to have a draft decision in front of you you could you know continue you can continue it the the public hearing is still continued but the the um the actual input is closed but we don't have to close it again no you don't and we can vote outside of the yes you close it vote yeah that app to other too yes conservation if that applies in general yes with with a public hearing correct your vote is is an administrative act with the planning board that's how we I I try to typically have it just because there with site plan review you have applicants that can sometime as the board is discussed and having their conversations will try to sway yeah we see it you know try to sway and that's why we I try to make sure to close that so that there is no Swang of the of the of the board makes sense so I understand this right you can close public comment but you don't necessarily have to close the hearing you could do it that way or you could close the public hearing and then deliberate and vote if you close public comment but then someone comes in and you really really want to hear what they say you could allow them to talk then because you hadn't closed the public hearing I mean you could yes I guess it would be up to the chairman but if you close the public hearing formally don't there can be no information provided so okay it's how you guys want to do it um the next slide is site visits so um could I ask a question that I think would come before that which would be we've had occasion where an applicant clearly gets a sense that sentiment is running against them Y and we've allowed them to withdraw without prejudice does that require a vote we yes okay we did we did have you have to vote on that okay and they have to withdraw without prejudice prior to a vote so you cannot vote to deny it and then they withdraw without prejudice because the two years kicks in If you deny it they can't come back for 2 years okay so if they withdraw without Prejudice they can come back okay so it is very important and what they're doing is they are requesting to withdraw without prejudice and you are granting their request do we have to Grant the request so so I haven't seen it done we close the hearing and we're having discussions and the applicant sees that it just doesn't look good for him he can't come back and and and withdraw at that point because he shouldn't but well I mean the case the case law says that it has to be before the vote but if you've closed the public hearing they're not allowed to talk the applicant cannot ask for a withdrawal after the hearing is closed they really shouldn't be yes I mean I've seen it done shouldn't be in both John very and I can tell you yeah but I just want to know that we have the grounds that it's not allowed correct so once you once you if you are going to close the public hearing the applicant needs to remove themselves sit in the audience and they are just like an a butter they there is no more comment so okay I comment is I want to withdraw I think we could we could argue that no because we can't take we cannot take any further there's an argument that that's only an administrative um act and you guys could do it outside of the public hearing but um but sometimes they might not know enough about where the board's headed until after we start deliber right which is that that would be their argument that it's really purely an administrative act on your part so it would still be our discretion to decide if it's a minist and for the most part the folks who have tried to withdraw without prejudice are the people who in all likelihood would get a sense before we closed right it's going to be the attorneys and Engineers here for a de we've never closed before the vote good point it's a good point so then they could do it right up to the vot Y um so for site visits on on-site inspections are not a meeting they don't have to be posted provided the members do not deliberate during the inspection um if you do Post you have to state that the board cannot invite members of the public onto onto private property if you do do a site visit um as a board just don't talk to each other because um it could be considered a deliberation um conflict of interest um Municipal Employees must receive a summary of the law um all Municipal Employees which is you guys are board members included must complete on online training program um you can find you can get that through the town clerk um generally with a conflict of interest you do not act if you have a financial interest you do not act if you're related to the applicant you do not act if you are an autter or a close resident and do not act if you have bias pretty standard and recusing oneself let's say in the case of these conflicts do you have to remove yourself from the room you don't have to remove yourself from the room I recommend that you remove yourself from the table t y now say we were in a butter but we wanted to comment on the application as in a butter is that allowed yes you have to remove yourself from the table and you become part of the public and you can if if you really want a belt and suspender it you would say that you're speaking on behalf as as a property owner not on behalf of a board member as a board member what defines close resident cuz if you're in a neighborhood say you've got say you have a house that's here and you live over here and this is all dead end that's close so when that's actually a good question so then in this for the sake of closeness we're not referring to an a butter that's been notified it's I live on East Main Street somebody lives on I don't know Pine Street but technically 300 is the crow flies I'm not notified I shouldn't vote it's up to you it's it's your choice if it's your direct nextd door neighbor do not sure sure if it is if there's you determine what close resident is so for example at the end of a dead end Street you know dead end dead end and it's like four if there's five properties on that Dead End Street don't vote if any houses come so the street I guess then the fourth one clears it up right if I'm not noticed as an AB butter I would know if I have a bias or not because I know that person if I don't know them I would feel comfortable with yeah a Butters to a Butters not notified a Butters to a Butters within 300 ft so 300 ft is the maximum so it's an a butter two and a butter so if you have if you have 300 ft and you have property property property property those last two properties do not get notified because it's a Butters to a Butters that being said the easiest way for the assessors to do it is to do a 300t radius and so they they they notify everyone within 300 ft but there is a case that uh the land Court determined back in I want to say maybe 2019 where they said an a butter to an a butter it's only a butter to a butter if you have a third a butter that's within 300 ft you don't have to not you don't have to notice that but every assessor just 300 ft because it's it's a program is that what we do say yeah yeah yeah um okay public records can we just so on the quorum thing back on that last one if you're out even in another public meeting and there's multiple members that are of the same board they have just to clarify that they just can't be talking all together correct correct but they can be here they can be here yes you just can't be all three sitting close to each other and talking so if Jess and I went to the planning board it would be okay though because we don't have a qu correct but if you if say um you two and Sam were there and sitting in the front row that could be consider that could be considered cour so then you'd have to do a public notice that yes okay but if you were not sitting all together and you not talking you don't have to do a public correct you're just a member of the public you're just a member of the public so for example when you um so for example if you all go to town meeting yeah oh you're not you're not a board you're not deliberating you're just you're C say we've had issues like with the planning board where conservation more if like three of us wanted to go to a meeting we're not going to deliberate at the meeting but we're all there because we're on the Conservation Commission we're also seeing that project are we still do we have to as as long as you guys aren't sitting together okay as long as you're not deliberating planning board can deliberate yeah so um you have to so for example if um if we had um trying to think with your really if so for example if the select board um the select board controls um litigation in the town so if your board was sued and um there was some agreement for judgment or something came up and we h i I also had to get the select board's approval and we had a joint meeting an executive session both boards would have to notice that you would have to post it and notice a meeting and then we could all meet together and discuss an agreement for judgment or something like that but it's very rarely that it would happen and and and an occasion that just happened recently for us for the planning board uh the select board was meeting on the zoning amendments and I had multiple planning board members here I just prior to the meeting I reminded them not to sit next to each other and not to discuss anything um next is public records so um all records made or received by a governmental body official or employee are public records unless there's an ex um an exception um really the exception are um really just just um Social Security numbers things like that for for you guys check uh check accounting numbers on checks and things um emails are public records unless there's an exception public records may include text social media posts and other electronic communication even if it's sent from a personal email account um file documents are public record unless there's an exception minutes are public records um unless there's an exception The Only Exception there would be for um executive session file documents and Emil s The Only Exception would be if they're from me or they have me on them um and then um minutes have to have the date place and time of the meeting the members present and absent topics discussed and motions um and votes and that is it so I as we were going through it one of the things that we receive prior to most of our public heing it's a transmittal sheet and I'm wondering if it's a appropriate for us to receive it only because for example a comment will say recommend granting oh from the department head comments yeah the trans you know oh our department head reviews so maybe for future reference either we don't do it which I I liked getting it but I don't get your CL yeah yeah I guess what's what's so my my point is like if we get an application for a variance and the Seven department heads I'll say recommend uh approval we look at the application and we say well I don't see anything wrong with topography or soil or shape you know the the poor applicant's going to be sitting there saying I talked to Charlie and the assessor and I understand what you've said tonight is you know almost tough darts but you know we see these people on the playground and when we vote and you know so my my point is it may not be appropriate for staff to say a recommendation like like the assessor or the tax collector could say no taxes owed um but I I think it just makes it tough but some of the information pertains to public good or you know the um guess just don't include the recommendations but some but really some of it would help with those prongs I've always pushed for more information from the Departments cuz sometimes they said well I'm against it and I'd go back and say well that doesn't help yeah you know that just says you have an opinion but you know what what is this based on so I've always I've asked for more okay rather than less fair enough and just as an like so for um variances let's just say when I'm reviewing them I'm also going through the three-pronged and that's how I would base my recommendation so but you guys may have a differing opinion it's just a recommendation doesn't necessarily mean you have to adhere to it okay right and it's different I'll say for all department heads right so correct Barbara the treasur tax collector is not looking at soil andart she's looking did they pay their taxes um same with the we have the assessors look at because what if it's in chapter land we want to just it's more of a check so I think if they're saying recommend yeah I guess we could change the sheet to say either acknowledged or reved um but yeah the police chief he he does he's not looking at the shape of a lot it's is this going to impact Public Safety which I think it's important for you guys to know of course fair enough and then it keeps the departments in the loop as far as what's going on at the board level because I'm right when they get to work they're reading all the agendas for the upcoming meetings and whatnot just meeting so it keeps everyone in the Lo and everyone kind of knows what's going on but the some of the department heads make um informative remarks you know like um the police sometimes have real concerns about the traffic the fire department has real concerns I mean so it's not I it's not something that I would like to see just glossed over because I think their their opinions matter agree yeah could their recommendations or opinions be used as part of the findings like for instance okay they usually are okay so um it's um it's unusual to have recommendations um mostly you just have comments and concerns um you also will have you know say for example from the um from the fire department or the police department no concerns we get that a lot but sometimes there are concerns but so you know no concerns means probably a recommend I I don't know but I don't know if they should be actually recommending CU that is your job but um yeah you know concerns um and then the other thing too is that um they're looking at a they're looking at a an application a a you know written application they're not actually they're not going to be able to see what you guys see if an applicant comes in with a PowerPoint and maps and testimony you know so they're not seeing they're not seeing all of the information and maybe some of that is to encourage the department heads to respond a little different instead of saying we recommend approval or we recommend this just say I received it no comment or whatever because like a lot of times you know Robert gets it a deferred to zba it's not in his jurisdiction to make recommendations is that always Robert's handwriting or that's sometimes yours no that's his always he's got to pull those up himself checking yeah no but it um it you know that way we're in the loop but you know he knows it's not within his job to recommend a variance or whatever so he'll use sometimes weigh in as you know when there's other bigger issues at play that need to be addressed um but typically yeah he's always going to defer I prefer that yeah so for a 40b um application the regulations require that within 7 Days the application comes in within 7 days that application has to be distributed to all local boards and so um and the purpose of that is to get comments so um that's just a little bit different but that is a requirement under the um under the under 760 um CMR 56 under the Rex did one I had a question about one of the really early slides you know there's some things like they require the super majority the four out of five votes to pass but then there's some there was a couple um finding majorities yeah that just needs a majority that's a finding a section six finding yeah and a uh a conference affirment so what if there's only two people at the meeting there can't be it's not a quum okay that's what it's going to ask so you have to have a quum so always so say you didn't have a forum you'd have to cancel the meeting m y okay yep yes what if you had you needed what if it was a 4 fths vote and you had say two people who had to recuse themselves you can't you can't you have to have it has to be a super majority so if you had bias or conflict of interest say two people had so you have a you have an alternate the alternate can only act on special permits when um and Varian as when a regular member cannot act okay yeah well what if there's more than two or three members have to re accuse themselves then there's a problem then there's a really big problem you canel meeting opponent well you can't you can't vote you have to have a super majority so um does that just give them by right then if um you would have to deny it you would deny it you would do a procedural denial if you don't deny it and you let the 100 days go then it's a constructive approval but you would have to deny it and um I have actually had this situation when there weren't enough members yeah of a board board so a threers zoning board of appeals when it's a three-person zoning board the super majority is three so it's a unanimous vote for all of these and they only had two members oh wow so they no alternates so um they scrambled for about a month or two and then they finally found somebody to appoint and they had to appoint somebody um in another in another municipality I had the same problem and it was um um there was a shortage on both concom and and Zoning Board of Appeals and the select board members had to step in and serve for limited time till they found people so anything wacky I've I've had so um I guess it's good that maybe well no because I always get new new stuff every time I swear every day a new problem comes up that I've never dealt with before so um especially after Co and the one thing that with Co um the attorney general um has determined that um if you do not have a quorum you can have one person here or two people here and you can continue all of the hearings so you don't need you know you don't have to have a a quorum to continue all the hearings when you have to cancel a meeting Yeah we actually dealt with that in salber yeah yeah so um and I think that was mostly a result result of Co not having members will you say that again I don't know what so you have if you don't have a quorum you you can't really open the meeting right but you can there is there has been a determination that it's an administrative act to Simply continue with all the public hearings oh okay you can just continue y okay you don't it's it's preferable to have two people here to do it but even if you have even if only one person is here they can do it cuz it's purely an administrative act so okay is there any other questions all right yes if there's an appeal to the board by a decision from The Building Commissioner I've never I'm pretty new to this so I've never seen it happen what's the process do you basically just rehear the whole thing and just that yeah we did we did a couple that's one of them and the honey did that ever get result no still in court they're still in court right now dealing with it I'll bring it up yeah are there any time frames involved with that yep it's the same as a variant so it's they apply they well so the most important time is that they have 30 days to appeal okay so calendar days or business days calendar 30 calendar days to appeal and um if they miss that then it's procedurally denied but um but you still have to procedurally deny it but um if they appeal to you say for you could have um an abutter that appeals the issuance of permit for his neighbor that would come to you if you if that a butter thinks that Charlie you know shouldn't have granted it because it required say a special permit or required a variance or something and then you make that determination how does say in a butter if say the Building Commissioner issues a permit how doesn't a butter even know about it if it doesn't go go through any public hearing process in order to appeal so there's um there's case law that determines what when and a butter should have known and then they have the 30 days from that so for example if there's was any action taken on the building permit you know there's a case that says that you can't just sit back when a an addition was going up you can't just sit back and then wait you know 65 days and then appeal it you have to immediately go to town hall find out what's happened find out there was a building permit issued um there's also a case that says that when it's a when there was a when there's a procedural issue there's that the 30 days extends to 90 days but it's all spe case um specific so um yeah but say okay so say somebody didn't start work for they get a permit they don't start visible work for so the argument would be that they have 30 days from when they saw that visible work 30 days from visible work but there's also a case that says that um that a Butters need to um need to check in with the Building Commissioner so yeah it's you know there's and also there's stuff you know Allowed by right but like building department monthly reports they're up on our website so by address you can see what the building department has issued for building permits and and I will say I probably get like 10 phone calls a week of my neighbors doing this do they have a permit and I have to go yes yes they do glad glad you're spying on people okay all right well thank you for having me thank you very much and hopefully you won't see me because it's not good to see me it means means there's litigation or something so um it would be good I will send a draft decision over with findings and if you can send a draft motion to just so I can see mechanically what it would look like yep I can do both no problem okay thanks everyone than all right all right next item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes from April 17th any comments no look good yep I make a motion we accept the minutes of the meeting for April 17th as written second second all in favor signify by saying I I I motion passes um board discussion can um someone sign can you sign the minutes R before I forget my mhm that's what I do with Jonathan too you need a co-signer M sh signature line um Bo discussion upcoming meetings and topics of discussion this being the first meeting after the election we need to no you guys get appointed at the end of June so then then it would be the July meeting okay when you do who of us is getting reappointed uh who's up this year I haven't filled out the thing yet but yeah I got a training thing too I got to do so yeah the emails just sorry the emails went out today for the two seats are three I think Marilyn John and Ron Ron yep so basically you just tell us you want to be reappointed the board it's very informal like at the select board meeting they'll make the appointment yeah yeah I just have to reply to the email that's y That's fine y we still get some time so um when she was talking about putting on conditions like it can we finish what I was doing oh sorry yes sorry I wanted to talk about reorganizing the board she said June but I don't know if we're going to have anything to do in June 19th we're going to the meeting we're not having a meeting in June so she sent out for the 26th of June to have the meeting instead of the 19th email I'll be in Asia are you going to be here Maryland I'm planning on it okay we can still do it reorganize well not not reor reorg so the appointments are up on at the end of June so it would be the July meeting in theory that you'd reorganize okay assuming we have a meeting if we don't then we can do it in August it's just the first first meeting you have after reappointments and technically oh that's not what it says it's after the election I thought REO we put it no we put it in after the election it should be reappointment because this board Is Not Elected yeah I understand that now let's see the shall annually elect officers to the board after board member appointments during the first regularly scheduled meeting of the fiscal year yep okay so that would be I thought it was election so it' be either July or whatever the first meeting of the fiscal year is sure all right and we need to have a meeting in June I know it falls on a holiday we've cleared it that it we can have it on the 26th I have three applications and so as it as it stands right now June I get back to the States probably around the 23rd or 24th this would be the 26 26th that's when we be I should be functional by yeah I was going to say if you're not jet lagged you know and we do have an alternate so if someone's on vacation we can we can work with it and worse comes to worse if that meeting is just we open the hearings and continue them to the next one then that's what happens all right fair enough we don't need a quum to open well remember also the meeting can actually occur and if you were to miss it you could Mullins in for that that's true we have the Mullins Ro so if you missed it the mulls rule it it allows uh a member to miss one meeting and get caught up with the public uh meeting information gets carried over yeah yeah yeah yeah so we could always do that to have them present all that stuff and just hold off the vote until July why what are we got on the table uh noya's coming back um they need to reapply for the variants they got before because it expired the hype y they didn't do anything so they have to come again um who's that the soya Foods oh we gave them a variance on the building hike cuz they were doing expansion remember that and then uh there's uh a resident who would like to expand their deck and they have issues there and then uh another property on Central a wants to add in a barn of some kind I'll do my best if you're not here we we'll understand we'll make it yeah Jess you had you were saying something dep it's it's fine um my question was that there is a how house going up on Sandy Pond Road that they put in a new house further back and the one right the corner is it red yeah it's set back it's I don't think it's we we that's what we gave them yeah but we had to put it in a condition that the driveway um no when the house is complete they have to take down the house in the front they did where's that it's right the onand point when you go see you guys back towards McDonald there one on right on the right side back have demolition permit oh but they haven't back I believe they got inspected yeah it's back cuz the new house is going in front and then they got to tear down the old one but I think that Old One's still there that might be I don't know I know I know what that is okay so they were actually before they chopped off that trunk there were three houses on that property one was old one was older and one was kind of newer okay and they chopped off the old one and that's kind of like an apartment building that's its own property but they have the same house little lot in the world yeah that little one that sits in the front I thought that was the one they were tearing down that's staying and the okay they technically have like the same house number too it's yeah they ran out of oh oh okay okay yeah ran out of num so it's like some whatever it is a and then and then that was left with two houses on the same lot they knocked one down built where that was and then they knocked down the other one but it does look like the that's I think it was 31 and 33 or something yeah something like that yeah um but otherwise yeah so we should hopefully have three full hearings for the 26th of June we'll go from there awesome uh and then if there's anything else you would like to discuss at the next meeting uh just let me know and I can add it to board discussion when do we think we'll hear back from the AG on the bylaw changes on the byw changes so uh we submitted that um it was a week after town meeting um they started the clock couple days later from there so it's 90 days from that point Okay cool so will you give us updated paper for those yeah and so I have currently an updated zoning bab that I have not distributed yet until I know that the 90 days and the AG has okay it cuz we've been having actually some issues with um getting them submitted and um sometimes they get kicked back just for some small small little things so we don't want to ever do that that's why we're kind of holding off okay and probably the zoning map as well yes and those are approved the planning board will have talking about Google Earth it up being built it showed where the other two were torn down okay put it the little one that one little one is still out front I think I think that's the one I thought they were there yeah cuz I thought they were saying at the time that that they were going to keep that house there so they could run utility through it while they yeah okay [Music] well oh wow you know where it is it was very okay and yes that's what they did say when they were at the hearing they needed to keep the first house up because they needed to run the water and all that stuff and then they would tear it down after completion they and and they did they got a demo permit and Charlie went out and inspected it and they did what they were supposed to just wasn't what my brain remembered there was all kinds of confusion as to which was coming down and which one wasn't anybody else yeah make a motion to adjourn at 7:38 all the favor say hi hi we you're a Jour all right