##VIDEO ID:Fi5R7BdVuTY## e e e e e e e e e e e e e to order the February 3rd 2025 meeting of the Bayport city council and we can all stand for the Pledge of Allegiance Pledge of Allegiance the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all all right thanks Matt will you uh call the rooll please uh council member kilmar here council member Hill here council member do here mayor Hansen here just note that uh council member Bliss is is not here tonight he didn't quit already he just had prior plan we didn't scare him away one meeting yeah okay um do we have a motion to approve tonight's agenda I move to approve the agenda as presented thanks Katie second thanks John all in favor I I all right move forward with our agenda uh next is proclamations accomodations petitions and announcements the January recycl award recipient is Aaron Carter on Prairie Way North he'll be awarded for his recycling efforts with a grant from Washington County and now we'll move on to our open Forum this is a portion of the meeting to address the city council on subjects that are not part of the agenda the city council may take action or reply at the time of the statement or may give direction to staff regarding investigation of comments expressed total of 15 minutes is allotted for public comment during the open forum and we have two guests here that we know want to speak during the public forum so or the open Forum so first we'll have Mary glette come up she's no stranger to this building no ma'am uh Mary goulette 204 North F Street I'm here to represent the bcal tonight though okay okay so Madame mayor council members and staff thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak before you this evening I would like to start by expressing ing my S sincere appreciation for the dedication and hard work all of you put into supporting and enhancing our community the BCA is truly grateful for the ongoing support we receive from each of you whether it's from the public works department the police and fire departments are a wonderful Library your Collective contributions are essential to making Bayport such a great place to live tonight I'm here to extend a warm invit ation for you to join us at the ice cream social which will be held on June 4th at Lakeside Park the event provides a fantastic opportunity for Neighbors to come together in a beautiful Scenic setting we would be truly honored to have your involvement this year specifically we'd love for Madame mayor and the council members to volunteer for a 30 minute ice cream scoop Scoopy shift glad I said that right it's a 10 times fast I almost said something wrong it's a fun and easy way to engage with residents support the success of the event and of course enjoy some ice cream and let's just be honest scooping ice cream is a lot more fun than building gingerbread houses in addition to the social we're also organizing a food drive to support families with children during the summer months we're seeking donations of kid-friendly non-p perishable food items such as snacks juice boxes and cereal all donations will directly benefit the St Croy United Food Pantry here in Bayport this year we're excited to introduce a new children's activity where local kids will help ass assemble Swag Bags for other children in need we've already reached out to the local churches to partner on this initiative and the response has been over overwhelmingly positive we hope this will inspire the Youth of our community to engage in giving back and F Foster a sense of generosity and involvement thank you again for your consideration we're excited about your support and we hope to see you at the ice cream social thank you may I wanted to say this my whole life I stand for questions well okay I'll I'll I'll ask one then do you have any idea how much ice cream I can scoop into me in half an hour cuz that's a lot yeah it's very busy it's very busy and yeah I'm I'm excited I hope you guys all I'll do it because I've done it for the last several years and it's a fun night so it's amazing how many people go down there yeah so it's a good drop it so thank you for your time thank you Mary thanks for the great idea and I'm super excited about the food drive option that you added to this um last year the Lions did a diaper drive so yeah this is and we'll coordinate with the um Lions as well yeah yeah great great work thank you and bcal stands for the Bayport Community Action League for those of you who are not aware and they're always looking for members right Mary anyone can help we're small But Mighty small But Mighty they do lot of great events in town so thank you thank you Mary and next up Barbara he Camp is here from she looked I know goodness all right so I have a little presentation so Sarah and Matt asked me a very long time ago to come well first tell us you're who who you're where you're from so my name is Barbara high camp and I'm a water resources educator for the Lura St Croy Watership partnership um so I have a few slides you also are a Bayport resident I also am a Bayport resident if you look at the first slide on my presentation they're switching it over okay so here is my daughter one of her best friends at Lakeside Park claiming Victory my screen isn't working oh there be nice if we could get can we get it on the main one too Harrison the one on the podium oh you can see it mine yeah we have there's a TV right there so we can pretend like we're looking at you but we're cool no that's fine you can look at the TV screen and find it that is it there there it is I love that picture that's so um on the agenda it says my affiliation is the East Metro Water Resource education program that is true but I'm actually talking tonight about my source of funding that comes from um the other aspect of my job which was the lower s c Watership partnership um but yes I am a bort me uh resident my husband and I and our children moved here in 2014 we live in the inspiration development um we love this community both my girls go to Anderson one of them was there from preschool up through fifth grade now at Oakland my youngest is now in second grade um being able to be part of this community has been amazing so thank you to all of the staff um I work on the uh the foundation board at the library um I co-lead two Girl Scout Troops that are primarily Anderson girl troops um my husband is part of the inspiration uh Community Association as a president and is a thorn in that side many times um but we we love this community so the Loris and Croy Watership partnership um is a uh Regional watershed management scheme that the board of Soil and Water Resources came up with um approximately 10 years ago maybe a little bit more than 10 years ago and the idea was is that we wanted to be able to better align uh water planning we wanted to better align um initiatives that looked at being able to improve water quality uh throughout the state and we wanted to make sure that we were able to get money to portions of the state that truly needed it a lot of our clean water funding is by Grant by competitive Grant process and so they wanted to create it's called one Watershed one plan a way to be able to bring together different partners to be able to collaborate and talk about how can we make sure that resources are going to where they need to go and we can better improve our Water Resources so in our corner of the world we have the lower St C Watershed and so it includes about 60% of Washington County pretty much all of shago County and then portions of an NOA Pine and ianti so this is my playground this is the realm in which I work so you might find me down in Hastings working one day or up here in Bayport I could be up a North Branch or I could even be almost as far north as Pine City they're just out of the L St Croy so we're kind of getting rid of some political boundaries but then we're establishing other boundaries that I have to work within inter but I work with the partners from all of the the agencies within this region which includes counties solar water conservation districts and because Washington County and Anoka County are part of the Metro they also have that middle level of watershed management which is the Watershed districts or the Watershed man management organizations but back in 2017 long before I took this job you had all these Partners get together and come up with the 10-year comprehensive watershed management plan what are we going to do over the next 10 years to be able to help improve water quality outcom take care of our lakes rivers and streams enhance habitat and kind of maintain the quality of life that we've gotten used to here in this portion of the world so since we started implementation in 2021 um every two years we get um a pot of implementation funding and that goes toward specifically toward projects that look to improve water quality and priority areas of the Watershed um all for the benefit of the St Cay River and these projects can include everything from agricultural Landscapes to just rural Landscapes to looking at Urban and developing Landscapes and some of the types of projects that we've done up to date look at stream restoration so we've been working down at afon Alps um water and siment control basins in our agricultural Landscapes uh looking at even just something as simple as keeping cows out of the lake having their hoves mash up the water and stir up sediment and nutrients looking at uh wet lend enhancements and Restorations what lenss help create water storage as well as infiltration capacity and filtering capacity of the water something like enhanced street sweeping I had a great time following Simon's team last fall as their street sweeper went out and did their thing it was a lot of fun to watch um looking at Ravine stabilization being able to stop erosion um storm water diversions bio retention basins pretty much the sky the limit the biggest bang that we've got thus far though is working with our basin farmers and so we have a lot of egg down in southern Washington County kind of intermixed here and there as we go up the Basin there's another large egg contingent in Chisago County and working with those Farmers to implement practices that really look to help reduce soil erosion and keeping the soil on the fields and not getting fertilizer to go off into our lakes or and streams so being able to offer incentive programs like noil a conversion of Farmland to Prairie or pasture land cover crops reduce tillage um it's been a really great way to be able to build up additional trust where we stop finger pointing between urban and rural Landscapes and really just get people talking and being able to say hey look farmers are really doing their part too so we have this Education team and this is where this dove tailes with the East bestro uh Water Resource uh education program which I hope many of you are familiar with since Bayport is a member um so I work with Angie Hong I am co-housed at the Washington Conservation District and part of my funding comes from the mup program and part of it comes from the state low St Croy Watership partnership and so we have four Educators there's Angie we hired a new educator last spring Jessica if you haven't had the chance to meet her she is a bundle of energy she's going to be working as our volunteer coordinator she's fabulous uh myself and then we actually just hired a new uh agricultural outreached agronomist as well and so all of us are together really just trying to make conservation cool right and so doing our part to help people understand that the way that we have used and managed our Landscapes aren't necessarily leading to desirable outcomes right the way that we water our Lawns or we fertilize our Lawns or the fact that we have so many Lawns um how we live along our shorelines how we handle getting around in the winter and how much salt we use just kind of thinking through things of we live our daily lives but what are small things that everybody can do to best be able to continue living in a way that we enjoy living but yet still have the quality of the water resources that we're looking for so some of the things that we are have been working on and will be continuing to work on over this next year and I'm always looking for ideas and ways to be able to plug into Bayport so do let me know and all of these pictures come from um being up in Inspiration which is awesome um so planting for pollinators a lot of people are really concerned about the flights of the bees and the and the uh butterflies and the birds uh what's great about native plants is that they're also great for cleaner water as well so if we are able to plant more native plants they have these really deep roots which means they need less water less fertilizer um they infiltrate water better which means that you don't have to worry as much about storm water runoff and and a lot of people really are getting on board with this so we always are trying to find a way to meet people where they're at and being able to ask them to do things that just make them feel good also about promoting best man landscape management practices up an inspiration we've done a few prescribed Burns over the past few years I love it it's huge plume of smoke and everybody's like oh no this is awful and you're like no actually it's kind of awesome but doing it in a very safe methological way and we're seeing this practice being used more and more across Minnesota um because it does actually help manage fire risk as well but being able to talk to people about the fact that these Landscapes used to burn all the time and it's actually we who have stopped that from happening but it rejuvenates the soil rejuvenates the vegetation rejuvenates uh the wildlife that have evolved to be here is a very powerful story promoting more natural shorelines in Minnesota we love our Waters we love living the as close to them as possible um but at the same time we eradicate the natural shorelines we get rid of the trees and the shrubs we have our gravel we have our sand beaches we use rip wrap when we're concerned about erosion and we're really trying to help people find more of a balance right you're able to have your dock you're able to have your little bit of of beach Shoreline but consider having a buffer twoo because that's going to be able to support the lake Health it's going to be able to minim green algae um and it's going to make sure that you still have frogs and turtles for your kids to catch or grandkids to catch so Barbara I know you like to talk with your hands but I want to make sure people can hear you when they're listening onl he I'm so used to talking loud that I'm not used to people not okay I just want to make sure hearing me okay okay right uh one of the other things that we've been working on uh especially over this past year and looking into this year is really working with local leaders such as yourselves so there are a lot of policies and um practices that are at your disposal that really are about being able to see how you want your community to develop being able to look at the future of what your community is going to be um we've developed a few cool video series talking about given the fact that in the East Metro we're continuing to see this population surge I'm part of that right we move here from South Minneapolis um but being able just to do it in a very mindful way and we're actually the partnership is putting out a request for proposals over the next couple weeks and we're actually going to be hiring an outside group to help us build materials and do Outreach with communities we're really focusing on the Chicago County communities in many ways Washington County communities have such a leg up in thinking about this is given the fact that we've had to develop so quickly and they're just really starting to see the push of this development up north um but even again I go back to inspiration the reason why we moved into inspiration is because it is an example of a conservation development it's a cluster development all of these houses are on quarter acre lots you could have made it so they were 3/4 of an acre or larger you would have had less houses but by taking that away and doing quarter acre locks we have 150 acres of prairie around us and that's the main reason why we moved to the neighborhood because I was like my HOA pay for the management Prairie I'm in that was my selling point so being able to we've been hosting a lot of workshops in the past traveling on the river I know several of you have actually come to those in the past um we definitely are going to be uh continuing those but we're going to be doing some really focus pointed Outreach in the next couple years uh working with communities and helping them to think about how to manage storm water thinking about minimal impact design standards um which Bayport has already adopted uh but being able to Think Through how can we help these communities develop in a way that they feel retains that uniqueness and quality of the community in which they're leading doing a lot of storm drain and Matt gets on me this a lot um when we're talking about how people get so disconnected about what just goes down your storm drain thinking that it goes to a treatment a water treatment system and it doesn't it goes directly to our lakes rivers and streams and so being able to encourage people to kind of look out for their storm drains there's the adopt a storm drain program um I've taken both of my girls girl scouts troops through it Matt gets probably tired of requesting me being like Matt we need to clean storm drains which ones do you need clean um but then also talking about chloride as well so that picture on the screen that you see of that of that salt that's actually the and Anderson Elementary driveway out front and this was October 2003 uh 2023 and I was just going to pick up my girls from school and I saw that amount of salt uh chloride is an emerging pollutant in our communities we're starting to see a lot of our lakes rivers and streams become impaired for chloride it is considered a permanent pollutant and so there's no economically feasible way to get that salt out once it's in and it's a concern not only for surface water but our groundwater as well so we've become a little loose in our salt diet when it comes to putting it on the ground and so just trying to help people understand that that's not something that we want um but getting into our lakes rers and streams um I know that Simon and the Public Works folks here at Bayport are all are all smart salt certified which is awesome um but it's getting to the private and so this was actually a vendor for the Stillwater school district and so we actually contacted them and asked them if they were smart salt certified and they were not um so hopefully they went through that program but in the meantime now the janitorial and custodial staff at Anderson know that you know once they see just it sitting on the ground and the ground is dry to go out and sweep it up so it doesn't get into the storm drains so just cool little just little local impacts that we likely save the squ River from a bunch of chloride pollution just by sweeping that up so the end results of all of this the end goal is that we just want to continue to work with our communities we want to continue to work with private land owners but also the community leaders and that includes obviously all of you and so we have we are essentially we are here and we're willing to come talk at any time if there's a particular topic that you're interested in hearing about um as it pertains to Natural Resources feel free to talk to me talk to Angie um and we're more than willing to come and uh kind of discuss whatever you'd like to do we want to be able to promote the adopted Jane program um when development comes to town tools that we have for growing communities but again if you're interested in what's going on with per Creek what's going on with the St Croy what's going on you know Upstream that we should be knowing about we're always happy to come in and provide you just a snapshot of education and things that we can do so there's my other daughter thanks hi Audrey thank you fire I stand for questions there's no sitting here everyone's standing for questions okay so you mentioned that you're funded by a couple different things but how do they get funds is it taxpayer money that so we St Croy Watership partnership the what funds me um and my education program and our a Outreach specialist is funds from the board of Soil and Water Resources and so Bowser the lovely acronym but it comes from the water fund the state clean water the state clean oh kind of like how we got grant money for buying the land by the oh okay um and then the MRE program um is a locally funded program and one of the reasons why my position got funded by the state is because of the success of the East Metro Water Resource education program and so that program has a lot of overlap with a lot of the partners that are in the partnership um but it also includes municipalities as well like Bayport because we offer specific Outreach assistance when it comes to talking about your ms4 permit and so it's a state requirement to be able to speak to why do we have storm water how do we manage storm water and being able to kind of provide that additional leg of education but MRE has been ongoing since 2006 which is unheard of for a lot of programs just because most of the time when you have a grant the grant Runs Out out what happens to the program you guys model you do a great job I just want to say that um I've been on those boat two of I think of the boat things maybe three I know John's gone on it where you you take the officials out there and we learn a lot more about what we should be doing and what our residents should be doing Etc and yeah those are great and I know you also came to our night T night I believe and you had a really cool display with the long our root pole display yeah so just to kind of give people an idea of how long those native plant roots really are so your your common milkweed plant The Roots can extend anywhere from 5 to 8 feet into the ground yeah I I just love that you guys are present and you're out there and you're trying to help people and and if there are other community events that you would like us to be at just let us know all right you know you know my number we know how to reach you thank you so much yeah very informative and I'm glad you guys are there doing what you're doing and I hope the funding doesn't ever run out me too all right thank you all right did anyone else have I just sort of talked and I didn't if anyone else had any questions for her she just left okay all right right here you're done okay good all right so we'll go move on to the consent agenda we're going to consider resolution adopting items 1 through eight the January 6th 2025 city council workshop and regular meeting minutes the January payables and receipts January building Plumbing mechanical and Zoning permits report special event application from Kenny Croy Girl Scouts for Twilight camp at Lakeside Park special event application from manger and oio for the Burr crawl on February 22nd special event application from Anderson Corporation for a picnic at Lakeside Park and application for a tobacco license from Bayport liquor and that's it do I have a motion to approve oh yeah motion I'll move to adopted resolution approving the consent agenda as presented thank you John second thank you Ethan roll call vote uh council member Gilmore I sorry council member dah hi council member Hill hi mayor Hansen hi all right that passes thank you there's no public hearings we do have some unfinished business business with the labor agreements this one is for the police chief and sergeant and Matt is going to present item uh thank you madam mayor members of the council uh this is a final contract for um of the three unions within the city um it's specifically for the police chief and the sergeant um so just two members of this Union um we've been in negotiations since uh last fall sometime um and have come to an agreement to be approved tonight by the city council um as we've discussed in the past about uh any police Associated wage we've seen a drastic increase in that not only in police officers um but also in Sergeant and chief rolls um and this uh contract is no different from the uh contract that was approved earlier well last year for the um uh police officers um I'm not going to key in on any there was no real drastic changes um to the Amendments really except for the wage portion and um I wanted to give a a um just a description on how we work through the sergeant and chief role um so the sergeant and both these roles rather than giving them a specific increase we use the step schedule for the increase um um so the sergeant role he is currently in a Grade Nine position and the proposal is to move that up to a grade 10 position um I had it that he was at step eight but um he's actually at step six um and he will remain in that position that step moving into this year so if you look at your sheet um I passed out the step schedule so grade n n has the sergeant at the very bottom and then he will move up to their that person will move up to the grade 10 level but not change steps for this year but he's currently at the six level step six yeah so across the top step oh step six that's I got go the left side and then steps goes across St yes yes yes okay and so he would move to 10 okay okay so that is a 10.7% increase over what he his 2020 for wage um that also includes a normal cost of living raise that we give out on any time of year um the sergeant role based on um a fair amount of analysis from the East Metro comparables um even at that wage increase we are seeing that this uh that his role is still likely um underfunded or he's lower wages than what we tried to reach when we did the police officers if you recall the police officers reached about an average 50% or average scale for East Metro the sergeant role is still under that average you mean median like 50% median average they're actually both the same okay they were both very close to the same um when we did the analysis so for that position we sometimes what happens in a Union contract we allow it to reopen for like a wage or for anything specific in this one we did allow a 2026 and 2027 reopening because we had indicated that we'd be doing non unions staff looking at their wages also for a comparison so at the same time um and it gives us a wider range of when we're looking at the league of Minnesota City study we'll be able to see a wider range and get a maybe better comparables for um that Sergeant position so um then moving on to the chief position um which based on East Metro comparables was actually also um very low for this side of the state this side of the Metro So currently the chief is a grade 11 um you can see him listed there and that position is at a step eight currently so he can't they can't go any higher um in 2025 we're proposing a move to step 12 and then a 2026 Step 13 um and I do have I won't get them out and show you but um if anybody wants um I do have the comparable you mean grade right yes sorry did I say confusing so I'm sorry so in 2025 he'd move up to grade 12 step eight stay in Step eight you can't go any higher than step eight at least on our current scale and then 2026 grade 13 at that point he would not move up any further because he bumps up against the city administrator um grade level yeah we can't give you a raise yeah so there are cities who have more grades than what we do that's not a question for tonight on how we would handle that if we're interested in reamping that schedule so okay definitely helped to have the step schedule thank you for bringing that it was really confusing trying to follow it when it was just text and there was no refence so again if anyone is interested in looking at the comparables for the East Metro I have them all here um I can pass them out after the meeting or and we'll make them part of the rec too so so the final takeaways I mean we talked about how police positions were at about the median which was also the average did you say that these two are also following in that range now or are they even below that no ma'am unfortunately if if we're only and these are a little different than I would consider the East metro police officers um because of the size of the um yeah you could only choose a couple different cities that are the same size correct that's why I think the league of Minnesota cities might be a better case study for like the chief and Sergeant now the sergeant role it could be argued that you're probably leading a group roughly the same size as the other East Metro communities um but so we'll take a look at that and do a larger comparison for both of these so okay does anyone have any comments or questions um just just you know when I read through this I you know focus on the changes which are in red um what what is the me too Clause so what that means is it's referenced in 26 something and I think it's 18 something 265 265 let's just take the 18 it's number three on my memo 18.3 me2 Clause was added to the contract to mimic the post employment healthc care Savings Plan through MSR so essentially what they do is they see what the police officers Union received and a me to just copies what they res gotcha that way you don't have to write it all out again in in this one perfect that's answers my question good question John all right anyone else want to make a motion instead I moveed to approve the labor agreement with the Minnesota public employees Association for January 1st 2025 through December 31st 2024 the police chief inart Sergeant you meant 2027 2027 okay do we have a second a second all right thanks Katie and John and uh all those in favor really we're spending money somehow and we don't have to have a roll call huh okay all those in favor say hi hi anyone opposed okay the motion passes now we are moving on to believe it is Simon going to talk about some Street lighting Madame mayor members of the council um as you are hopefully all aware we had a street lightf on Fifth Avenue and that's really sparked the conversation for Street lighting along fth Avenue and replacement of those um they are mismatched they're two different varieties up there um I don't know if any of you have been able to drive through town during the night time but it is not very well lit um the lights are yellow um it could use a a facelift um discussion had led all the way to complete replacement adding new ones reboring adding conduit um fortunately we do have a upgraded cabinet in the area that we are able to use um our engineering fir SE and uh their lighting specialist Ken taalon has been instrumental in putting something together for us that fits our budget and we did I believe it was the mayor who actually let us or turn uh got us onto Still Water replacing the lights up there they have a big project going through town um they are getting they are willing to um give some of their polls to the city of Bayport um Ken and I uh went up there and looked at them it was his opinion that they're in good shape um they fiberglass they should last 10 20 years um there's a little bit of work that needs to be done painting fiberglass work Bondo things like that but they should shape up nicely um so the poles were a significant expense and the savings are um enough to get it so that if we were to get luminares uh which would be something that we would have to purchase as well as insulation done by a a Prof a contractor um total estimated cost is down to around 21,100 um drastically different compared to what we were looking at in the neighborhood of I want to say 125,000 150,000 when we started this conversation so um it's all very reasonable um we can take delivery of the poles when still water is taking theirs down um that would allow us to to take the delivery and fix the poles um as well as uh order luminares um through Ken taalon and then coordinate the contractor to come in and install them um there's really no time constraints um there's really no schedule we could do it um pretty much anytime we wanted to this summer um I think the light poles fixing those would be good good side work for a little bit and then we can start figuring not putting them up so I mean that's more than more than you need to know at this point in time but uh this is this is where we stand um and ultimately my recommendation is that um city council authorizes staff to proceed with the this proposal asking um using the poles from still water as outlined thanks of new luminares thank you um I appreciate your reaching out to Still Water upon my what Matt thought was a crazy idea I think but why not reuse those pole I mean because they're not in bad shape right they're not going to go in a Landfield now we can use them unfortunately ours are probably going to end up in a Landfield but at least two sets aren't right well they're metal they'll probably scrapyard okay scrapyard good that's what I was wondering if there's things we can recycle that would be wonderful um we had some discussions about the style of what they were going to look like when we were talking about redoing everything conduit and everything um do we have the because you're going to get new tops when you say Lumin is that what that means like the top part is going to look different than the picture that's in the packet it's or is it just the light part that's that's kind of up to us I think that would be something once we're ready to purchase those that I think we would be smart to bring back to council for okay that's why I guess I'm wondering are the what is a Luminaire inum light light a light the f the top part yep it's not just the light that's inside but it's the whole look of the top okay yep the housing and everything so we can look at what we want for the top of it at some point yes we don't have to figure that out now in order to move forward with this but okay prices are are outlined on my memo so okay great and then we had talked about possibly doing fewer light posts than what we have had in the past on Fifth Avenue because we didn't know if we needed that many if we could get lights that were nowadays more downward facing and spreading the light further um so are we going to for sure have to put seven lights in I'd like to get as many as possible just so we have replacement posts too if we ever need them but um just kind of wanted to know how many lights were actually SE has recommending that we put in for sure is it seven or did we end up being able or was it going to be eight of originally it is I believe it is seven it says seven in the M yes so it's seven um it would be simply replacing okay so we didn't talk about doing fewer we were just going to redo the right okay which I guess makes sense otherwise you're going to have a hole kind of um Ken taon with SE it is tailon right John okay um with SE said that um you know he was actually kind of pushing for an additional to stagger them um removal of one with the addition of another one on the other side just to have the lights offset so that you'd have even coverage um good time to do it probably going to wait though at this point because that would require oring Concrete where conduit that so we'll just literally just take the ones out replace them with this and there's seven of them yep okay makes I mean we were thinking of that not only just to save money but also just for light pollution reasons that we thought we could reduce it but makes sense to I think we should look at something that I had brought up in our Workshop I had gone through I go through that area very often in my daily travels and recently at night you know it was a Friday evening and the people moving from the restaurants and stuff it's it's it was dark through there and I I think we should maximize and in the interest of light pollution maybe not something as aesthetically pleasing to to look at but let's get the light aimed down and you know really focus it and I think that's going to be our best option but I think this is a great you know 10 to $5,000 savings here for us and and we can work through those details but I don't think less light is a we can always if we wanted to we could disconnect one and not have it on if we wanted to but we also talked about wrapping the post with light so that there's some extra light and it looks kind of pretty kind of like oo has around the tree you know something like that kind of enhance it so we will have further discussions about all that probably but right now you just want us want to know if we're okay with you getting these used polls and moving forward with that plan right that's right okay I'm ready to make a motion all right great maybe go for it I will move to proceed with the replacement of the street lights on fth Avenue North as we've discussed tonight I'll second thanks John and Ethan all those in favor I I doesn't sound like anyone's opposed right new business thank you Simon that'll be great um consider resolution for a conditional use permit to conduct Auto Sales with outdoor storage and display at 397 fth Avenue North which is called Lenny's garage to get her attention Lenny's here with us so Sarah's going to present this item here said if I could get the projector on please so in the interest of timer to go through this pretty quickly but this shouldn't be new to any of the members of the council we've held a couple meetings and workshops on this so uh the subject property is Zone B2 Central Business and is surrounded by a mixture of commercial and residential land uses Auto Repair is a permitted use in the B2 zip District but Auto Sales and display ire a special use permit in 2023 the city council issued an interim use permit which provided an opportunity for the city to evaluate whether the use may be appropriate for the site long term due to the success of the interim use permit over the past year the property owner is requesting the city consider a permanent conditional use permit for the site with conditions and operations consistent with the interum permit primarily the use will consist of Auto Sales and display with a focus on online advertising and sales By Appointment hours of operation will be Monday through Saturday 8:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. with exterior building lights to be deactivated by 10 p.m and 16 stalls will be delineated for outdoor sales and display as requested by the city council at their workshop in December the property owner has agreed to replace the gravel area along the west property line in front of the building with concrete or side to comply with city ordinance reduce sediment runoff and enhance the appearance of the site during the inim period the property owner did complete some significant improvements which are summarized here and have enhanced the overall appearance of the site although clearly deficient in meeting many of the dimensional standards of the current zoning ordinance for auto sales staff has outlined some of the items that the city council may want to consider including as conditions of approval such as replacing additional gravel with hard service or landscaping and implementing some on-site storm water treatment like a vegetated soil or rain Garden this site outlines the findings of fact of which staff is basing a recommendation um of approval for the conditional use permit subject to the conditions listed in the staff report uh the Planning Commission did hold a public hearing on January 14th and no comments were heard uh the Planning Commission also is recommending approval of the cop at this time I'd be happy to take any questions and the property owners are also in the audience and available for questions thank you Sarah you're welcome does anyone have any question uh one thing on the uh the resurfacing uh we did in there I don't know if it indicated here but we were going to give them you know some time on that like it wasn't like you have to do it in I think it was yes the staff's original um report indicated um October 1st of 2025 and the Planning Commission um would like to extend that to 2026 so that's been updated in the report and resolution yeah it says no later than October 1st 2026 oh I was looking at this part oh just kind of the table under SE got it I just wanted to make sure that was in there yeah and it sounds like the owner it finds that to be a reasonable time frame and is on board with making that update wanted to do it anyways kind of so um I think it'll look a lot better which is great and the site itself already looks better than it did so um so I'm glad that there's a business running out of there and it's it's nice to have Barb Barbara was just here telling us how important it is that we are making sure that run off is is reduced and all of that so um that's why we have to do these things right okay anyone have any other questions or comments no okay motion is in order then all right I'll move to adop a resolution proving a conditional use permited to conduct Auto Sales with outdoor storage and display at 39 7 fth Avenue North subject to findings of fact and conditions of approval second thank you Ethan and John now we need a roll call council member Gilmer hi council member do hi council member Hill hi mayor Hansen I motion passes there you go congrats congratulations guys thank you all right hope all goes well um you're you can leave if you'd like you're like okay got that over okay thanks so we're going to move on to um we have a few minutes we can quick do city council the aison reports um Carl sent me one so I was going to here it is um he of course apologized that he can't be here but he did have some um commitments before being elected so um but he had a chance to attend the Washington County Sheriff's training for elected officials on disaster and emergency response which is great I went to it as well if any I don't know if there's still dates out there for that but if anybody else wants to go it is um very informative and I think it's worth your while um he found it uh valuable and he would encourage you to attend as well and you get to meet some other elected officials um in February he's also going to go to the foundational program for the league of Minnesota City's elected leaders Institute it's a two-day workshop in Plymouth I believe um and he is going to his first meeting for Lake Elmo airport advisory commission soon I can't that is um but yeah and he had a chance to also meet with uh Matt and Sarah to talk through the proposal from from Pratt Holmes about everything and we have some of his feedback on that later so that was his update um did the cable commission yeah we did meet well I actually sat in on the planning commission as well look at and it was for this very the L's garage thing so that was basically it it was it was short but sweet but um yes cable commission met we've got a few new Commissioners um with uh Still Water moov some people around so we have the new uh woman that was elected um joining us and then one other citizen that joined us as well um they did some updating of the bylaws and then we did I know you guys probably don't really know too much about it but this huddle thing that they were worried that we weren't going to be able to get funding or get advertisement because they're putting these cameras in oh for the sporting events for the sporting events but that's not true we can still as long as the coaches and everybody you know still get funding for it the the Huddle cameras are there but we can still do it oh that's great news that's really good news and I think both of the ladies that were that joined us have some like I don't know it seemed like they were very excited with them because they have some background and some things that maybe the two that are working there aren't super proficient in so it's kind of it was good it was good great yeah awesome so Valley access can still televise sporting events and get advertising from local businesses yeah that's great that was a meeting before it was like everyone was like doom boom yeah so it was good to good to figure that out well good yeah awesome thank you John Watershed um Middle s CR Watershed did not meet so I have nothing to report okay Katie be yep I have went to beel um a couple things I'll go fast uh the first state bank is wanting to do uh host a t-shirt contest for Derby days so they're didn't have much info on it but they do know they want it before what does that mean I mean it sounds hor you mean like a design of a shirt like a design of a shirt and then it would be sold at Derby Days the shirt will so you're going to make a shirt and so they'll they want people to design yeah they don't know who's going to judge yet if it's going to be local people or people at the church or people at the bank that will be judging who's going to win but and then it will be done months before Derby days and who gets the money from selling the shirt bcal will then take over the rights of the shirt get it printed and sell them from what they're thinking but all of it still has in like the beginning stages yeah I think it's a great idea to have shirt I mean we have those talk Derby me ones but yeah yeah that would be great um there also is a grant that they're going to apply for that um I guess it's already closed now so hopefully they applied for it um the next thing is the Easter egg hunt looking for a couple volunteers the boy scats will probably still volunteer um and then that bur craw is the new thing that maybe they'll take over next year to do as one of their events oh awesome get a nice bar again kind of like do the same thing like our bar craw but during the winter that's great yeah yeah okay I know it kind of came up at the last minute and yeah so the businesses are kind of handing it themselves but yeah the next meeting Thursday February 20th at 6:00 at the legion wonderful and again members are encouraged to yeah you don't a member to and you can also volunteer volunteer exactly all right um I uh didn't have too busy of a month because I was gone in Florida for a couple weeks but um Simon and I had uh are still working on the Grant from the St Paul area Association of Realtors I think that's what Spar stands for um so it's kind of fun we have another call schedule but we did speak to her I think on the 7eventh or something but we got the grant we just got to figure out exactly how it's all going to get used um the let's see oh I went Matt was also on this call Minnesota Department of Health had an update on expansion of the special well and boring construction area didn't really affect Bayport it was more um West Lake and Lake Elmo had a little bit of an expansion but it was helpful for me to understand what that even does and it's just like it helps could probably explain it better but it's about how where you can drill Wells if you have a new home and it doesn't really affect us that much so but still um let's see I did leadership in the valley again every month I do that and this was uh the health and wellness month so it was kind of fun because uh cam from our fire department was there and he did demonstration with some other Lake View EMS people where they reenacted the incident that happened at the marina where the guy had the heart attack and they came on the call so they could show us sort of the process of how it all happens and how they revived him and they had a you know a reca Annie kind of person there and fig yeah so it was It was kind of cool that was just one of many things we did that day uh Regional Council of Mayors and the Fire Relief Association were both on the 13th um nothing really to report for Fire Relief the funds are performing very well like above the the standard uh which is good because we need that money to pay everybody out eventually um I did I mentioned this at our Workshop I met with Dwight cumins the owner of the business the building that is now half empty on Fifth Avenue he was the he's an attorney he moved to Stillwater but chatted with him a little bit about the lighting on Fifth Avenue how Lenny's garage has been for them cuz that's right next door door and everything is great um even though he's moved and again I talked about the foundation with him cuz he's someone who started the I believe it was the stat foundation so I'm still pursuing all that I think I'm mostly I'm leaning towards emphasizing the Bayport aspect of the Still Water Foundation but have a couple more people to talk to um on the 16th we hosted team Malta from the world snow sculpting celebration took them on a quick tour of Bayport and I was just so pleased with how the city came together to host them so thank you Simon and public work staff for putting up the flags and the bank for just coordinating everything the PD came and went on the tour with us and fire department drove us around in a fire Tru and it was it was just really a fun fun time I wish it was longer but we it was pretty quick they ended up having getting an emergency call they had to get back and fix something with the sculpture or whatever so we stopped at Mabel's and had a Malto malt and everything it was it was really fun so thank you all for um helping with that and let's see Connie's farewell was really nice again thanks staff for that and I I was pleased at how many people came and it was really nice event and then I also had a chance to meet the new executive director of community thread his name is um Derek Jagger and hopefully he's stops in sometime and introduces himself here I know we've had visits from Sally Anderson in the past but she's retired now so and then I just wanted to invite everybody to the Bur crawl on February 22nd so it's going to be that's our first winter bar crawl in Bayport and the summer one is always a lot of fun so hopefully people um sign up for that it's on Facebook there's an event and um I think you can also just if you want to go to oo's website you could sign up for it through there you got to scroll down on the page a little bit and you'll find it but it's on their reservation page so it's $20 I think and there's going to be giveaways and there's deals on food and drink and so fun time so that's it and we should probably just does anyone have any questions for staff on their reports otherwise I think we'll just kind of since it's 7 o' and we have that other meeting okay I'll move to adjourn then all right thank you John thanks Katie all in favor I all right we're journ thank you e --------- ##VIDEO ID:NaobzS3v5Hw## e e e e e like to call to order the city council and Planning Commission joint meeting the city of Bayport and we're going to start with a roll call from Sarah for the Planning Commission commissioner Kelly here sigfreed here Oaks here and commissioner Kip is illing thank you Matt will you call the role for the city council yep commission um commission commission council member do here council member Gilmer here council member Hill here uh mayor Hansen here and then council member Bliss is not here tonight all right so we are going to start with a public hearing um consider oh considering it says we're starting with a public hearing considering resolutions for annexation petitions from Baytown and preliminary plat for Bay Haven development from Pratt homes um Dan is going Dan licked from the planning company is that what it stands for okay I'm like TPC is here to present present it and um we also have in the audience representatives from Pratt holes who can um come up after Dan so good evening mayor welcome council members and Commissioners uh Dan LED with the planning company if you want to switch to the uh screen display thank you um so this item comes to the Joint meeting tonight after being opened as a public hearing at the previous uh Planning Commission meeting in January there was some changes made to the project that were different from what uh the Planning Commission and city council had considered in October last year as a concept plan uh and we wanted to be sure with the developers agreement that we had all the information that the Planning Commission and city council needed to make decisions on these items presented coherently and consistently throughout the process so uh we took a couple weeks to regroup and bring this all back in one package for you this evening so I'll review kind of the annexation zoning subdivision applications that are before you uh the developer will address their uh proposed housing units that they intend to build here and a number of other elements that they wish to cover as part of their requests so the applications that are coming forward to the city include an annexation for properties in Baytown Township we bring those into the city of Bayport Amendment of the comprehensive plan to address those properties now being subject to the city's uh development regulations including also then amending the zoning map to establish uh zoning of those properties as part of the city and then the specific development plans for Bay Haven at Bayport including a PUD General development plan and a preliminary plat so we kind of have two parallel uh actions going over uh currently we've got uh both the preliminary plat covering a smaller area of the highlighted properties and then the additional annexation of these properties that aren't part of the Bay hav project but basically everything north of that existing public RightWay is proposed to be annexed now into the city of Bayport uh surrounding the area you have uh the uh ISD 834 in barers Alps Park to the east of it to the north of Fifth Avenue North is obviously the fire department facility as well as the state prison to the West are rural properties as part of Baytown Township uh to the south of the right of way uh that's with just to the south of these properties are lots that are within Baytown Township then to the south of that you have the inspiration development so uh this is somewhat of a logical extension of the city of Bayport given that it's east of Stage Coach Trail and south of Fifth Avenue North similar to what the city looked at when it Annex the property for the ISD a34 property um so to the annexation process uh the city would do this by ordinance um an ordinance that the criteria for annexation have been met uh the property is less than 120 acres in area it abuts the current city boundaries it's not current Serv utilties but utilities are available there is a petition from the three Property Owners involved uh the process we followed for this is the same as done for the uh isda a34 project where written notice was provided to Baytown Township and all AB budding Property Owners as well as published in the uh City's official newspaper Planning Commission holds a public hearing they make recommendation the city Council and city council adopts an ordinance affecting the annexation to the city and then that's reviewed by the state uh administrative law judge and that ordinance is approved once the annexation uh happens then of course we need to include the property as part of the comprehensive plan uh similar process Planning Commission public hearing Council approval uh this then goes to Metropolitan Council for final approval in consistency with regional plans uh and then it that comes back to the city for final approval and implementation uh so we're affecting two amendments of the comprehensive plan here the first is to include the property within the municipal urban service area which is where sanitary sewer and water utilities are to be made available uh when the 2018 comprehensive plan was done this area east of Stage Coach Trail and south of Fifth Avenue North was identified as a potential future service area again it seemed like a really logical place where Urban development would be likely to happen uh but because there was no annexation agreement with uh Baytown Township the city couldn't basically State we expect that this property will develop we're going to include it in our Muse and plan for urban land uses so um again the utilities are available to the property to provide for development of the properties included in the annexation uh so the amendment is appropriate then also with respect to the comprehensive plan is designating what land uses to occur there obviously the the proposal for development is a residential development consisting of single family and uh multiple family dwelling units the requirements under the regional plan adopted as part of the 2018 comprehensive plan require minimum five units per acre and that's developable acre Acres which is significant uh when looking at these plans that have been submitted with emphasis on single family neighborhoods but also looking at opportunities to include alternatives to single family whether they be tow houses or multiple family uh which addresses both a life cycle needs the idea that your housing needs change over your lifetime and your circumstances and also addressing attainability or the affordability of housing uh within Bayport and the Twin Cities region as a whole so when an property annexed to the city the city establishes a zoning designation for that uh for the bay Haven development it's proposed to be established as a residential planned unit development District uh for the properties that are not incl included within the proposed development City staff is recommending those be designated as R1 single family estate given their size and the fact that they're not connected to utilities at this point uh if there is a development proposal involving those properties at some point in the future that can be Revisited but that would be processed again parallel to that process with the comprehensive plan Amendment except that this is entirely a city council decision so the preliminary plat involving the smaller 28 Acres of the site uh proposing 35 single family Villa lots and 30 to 70 townhouse or multiple family dwelling units U with the location of the property it is subject to Washington County review and approval uh which would include dedication of right away for um Stage Coach Trail County Road 21 and as part of their application then they prepared a traffic memorandum based on the study that was done for the ISP a34 project to evaluate what impacts this velopment would have particularly at the intersection of 47th Street and Stage Coach Trail the recommendations came back said signal is not warranted based on the traffic that would be generated it would be possible to look at a four-way stop although Washington County doesn't favor that Arrangement uh they came back and said no longterm we're going to make this a roundabout so with the plat they would be requiring the developer to dedicate right of way to allow for that future construction by the county uh the other requirement from the county is to dedicate sufficient RightWay for the future roadway adjacent to the property which would also need to include space for a future Trail uh that is planned as part of a regional uh Trail Corridor as I said utilities are available to the property uh this does need to be coordinated to some extent with the ISD 834 project and that's the connection point at where sewer is coming from U but water would be connected from both sides of the project so that the system is looped and provides multiple connection points so that uh there's less risk of water being cut off in the event of a breakage there'd also be dedication of easements at the perimeter of all the properties being subdivided and then over any utilities being created the actual development plans themselves so they're proposing two phases of development the first being the 35 single family villa homes uh these single family lots are each 8,000 s ft in area really the defining factors the 50ft minimum width that fits the house plans they provideed representative designs for and a maximum 40% impervious surface within each of these Lots which then correlates to the storm water management for the overall development what's changed since the concept plan is both the uh location and necessarily um the designation of the specific user for the multiple family component uh it's moved more Central to the project so that it allows for access on all sides by public streets avoiding any need for a culdesac uh they've also changed the potential end user of this project it's not defined at this point but uh what the developer is proposing is that there would be a minimum of 30 dwelling units which would be necessary to comply with the uh five units per acre development density outlined by the comprehensive plan up to 70 units uh total that being a multiple family housing type development um the one limitation that the city would include on this would be a maximum Building height of 35 ft so that it's appropriate in scale to the surrounding single family neighborhoods uh and then also a maximum impervious surface limit of 45% again tied to the ability to manage storm water throughout the project the thing to understand here with the what's before the Planning Commission city council tonight is that the approvals aren't specifically being given for lot one block five that needs to come back as a future application and a planned unit development stage application that would go through a public hearing process again uh one of the things City staff developer discussed in the week since the prior meeting was scheduled was the need to provide notice to the people buying homes in this neighborhood as to what's going to occur on lot five um so City staff has outlined that there'd be a specific declaration recorded with each one of those lots so that at closing they're signing off and being made aware of the range of development types and density that can be developed on that property the developer also stated they'd include that as part of their sales materials they' post a sign on the corner as you enter the development showing what's intended to be there so that there's full awareness of uh everyone as to what's plan to occur there and what really needs is required to be there by the city's comprehensive plan uh obviously we're dancing around the issue of avoiding what happened to the South several years ago with the inspiration development uh from the city's standpoint it's difficult we can't necessarily force a developer to build something so we can regulate what they're allowed to build um and so it's ultimately working together to ensure that it's communicated going forward as to the second phase of development uh the other part that's significant with the project is the existing property is obviously significantly wooded uh and has number of topographic slopes steep slopes uh Wetlands Etc kind of at the perimeter outside of what is uh The Farmstead and kind of the pasture area the property uh the developer setting that aside in a a 13 1 12 acre outlot that would be preserved uh indefinitely Or in perpetuity uh through conservation measures and restrictions as well as a drainage and utility easement uh so that effectively reduces the development potential of this site that makes it work to have the single family units in combination with the multiple family units to achieve the density requirements uh set forth by the comprehensive plan uh addressing kind of the infrastructure portions of the project uh streets and trails uh all the streets within the development are to be public the individual streets accessing the single family lots are 50 feet of RightWay at 28t wide section with curb and gutter on both sides uh there would be a sidewalk constructed on one side of each of those public streets uh with no parking zones designated on the side of the street where the pedestrian way is to avoid any conflicts and the developers also extending a trail from Stage Coach Avenue or excuse me Stage Coach Trail through the development uh that would connect ultimately to arker elps park on the North uh High portion of the site um a number of things related to that trail uh there's this property Gap that exists between the plat within Baytown Township and this public RightWay and the inspiration development uh the developer is going to undertake a quiet title action to acquire that property Define it and acquire it uh and a portion of that would then be deed to the city to allow for completion of this Trail uh so as part of their project the developer is required to construct the trail adjacent to the public Street uh and down to this oops down to that property Gap uh the city Desiring to have that extended through to connect Barker's Al Park uh would make that a condition of approval developer is requesting that the cost of constructing that segment of the trail through the property Gap be credited to their park dedication fees and offsetting the fact that they will undertake the uh Quiet Title action um the other Trail item uh Washington Count's comments recommended the developer construct the trail along the east side of Stage Coach Trail from First Avenue North to the North Plat line uh City staff doesn't support that recommendation because the trail basically doesn't go anywhere at this point uh there's no plan or timeline for when that trail would be completed what's important is that the city will acquire the right away for that trail so it's able to be constructed as an entire project once uh a schedule is determined and funding is determined in the future tree preservation the developer looked both at uh kind of the perimeter of the site to the north and to the West outside of their property boundaries including the public rights way and also along the south in surveying 701 trees um that number also doesn't include much of the area on the East portion of the property down the slopes from uh the site on the lower portion of out lot a uh with the plans that have been prepared they're removing 273 trees4 which are within the site and you can see from the tree preservation plan A lot of these are being removed from the right of way uh that's part of First Avenue North as well as some of the just Outer Perimeter of the open area of the site just expanding the the buildable area of the property slightly to accommodate uh the house pad sites and reasonable setbacks from the edge of the woods as well as uh in this area for stone Water Management purposes based on the natural Contours of the property uh so they would remove 16.9% of the trees that were identified through their inventory again not all of those trees include the entire site based on the city's subdivision ordinance they'd be required to plant 308 trees uh to replace those removed um what they're proposing is 29 less than required uh so 279 with a mix of ornamental Evergreen and ornamental trees um from a develop ability standpoint that's reasonable um this is a fairly compact development there simply probably isn't enough space to add those additional 29 trees within the site the other thing that they are also working to do is identify significant trees within the site that could be transplanted to locations out of the way of development so uh some of those trees that are identified as being lost will actually be spaded out replanted in the site uh and warranted to survive through the development of contract so the tree preservation uh requirements in terms of their consistency with the intent of the regulations are being satisfied again this is a challenging site to develop and uh staff doesn't see it as practical to add more trees than are being proposed through the landscape plant so our recommendation on the proposed development from City staff including the comments of the city engineer and attorney with regards to the actions uh being requested uh would be approval of the annexation of the properties based on satisfaction of the state statutory criteria Amendment of the comprehensive plan based on the expansion of the MUA and land use is appropriate with the policies of the comprehensive plan uh the approval of the Pud development stage plan based on consistency with the intent of the zoning ordinance regulations for development of residential uses with within city of Bayport and recognizing the unique character of this property and then approval of the preliminary plat as it complies with the subdivision ordinance that recommendation was subject to 32 conditions um in discussions this afternoon with the developers attorney we are recommending an amendment to condition number 19 uh as highlighted that would Now read uh the developer shall undertake a quiet title action to acquire the apparent property Gap North of Outlaw B inspiration Third Edition with a portion of the parcel being deed to the city when with the final plat of bay Haven or as soon as practically possible uh the intent there is not to limit the overall project from going forward while this Trail Corridor is completed um the trail cor is definitely a benefit to the project and something the city would like to see happen um but it's will be provided for as part of the development contract it may just take longer than moving forward with the single family lots to have that result but uh this gives the developer the flexibility to move forward with their phase one project while still ensuring that the city uh will have that trail cour or completed uh in a timely manner is provided for in the development contract so City staff including the attorney and our office were comfortable with the proposed change and we would make that part of our recommendation thank you Dan you want to introduce yep uh Leonard Pratt is here from the uh Pratt homes uh to present their project the elements of bay Haven at Bay can you help me sir can okay because I move the slides along a little bit I'm kind of technology challenged uh well good evening you know thanks for serving the Public Public purpose volunteering to be Commissioners going ahead running for office to be a mayor and and Council people it it means something you know this is America at work so I want to first of all congratulate your staff on being reasonable people to work with we've had times to talk things through we've been methodical with things you know as we go along and I want to thank them both for being more than reasonable with us and as we've gotten there I don't want to go any further without introducing the land owners I'm sure you all know Jan and Jan Anderson and her husband Brad hi to and Chris and Jim OT it's their property you know and it's marvelous property I also have I'm going to start my presentation but I also have with me DNE sikic who is assisted me and all the details that are part of the submission there's a lot of them you know uh also Jacob steam who's with Larin Hoffman who's helped us keep track of the particulars of getting things done you know the the legal side of it and then also Pete Keeley Pete Keeley is an architect and Pete has designed over 10,000 units apartment units in the Twin Cities he's been at it for 20 years and I've known him for almost that many years but uh it's his building that we're going be looking at and we'll turn it over to him to discuss but let me Begin by playing a a video here a drone video well by the way this is AR BR you know you got to sit here so I can see he's my partner my my nephew but certainly my partner so I'm going to start and I know you know where it is but I thought I should show you this uh let's get that uh drone shot going it's going to be really brief but here it is beautiful so as Brad and Jan look at this isn't that amazing that's amazing you stage out but it it's it's one of a kind and thank you Jan thank you Jan for saying yes to me this um we considered a privilege and we s set our project right in that you know you know in the grazing land in in you know in the open pasture land you know didn't take much to figure that out right and even with that there's trees that have to be moved around but I thought everybody should see this let's move on thank you this is our it's a family business patoles you know boots on the ground there's a picture of my brother L and my new partner art there we've been at this for 52 years and we've concentrated on a Northeast area which includes Bayport you know White Bear Lake Shor view Still Water Lake Elmo Woodburry we've concentrated here so we've got you know we kind of not it like the back of our hand in a way so let's move on on from that um I want to mention one other thing there that we're given Builder license number one in the state of Minnesota by the Commerce department and it came about as efforts were around getting Builders licensed you know keeping things in order back in the 80s when things were maybe a little disordered um I was president of the Minnesota Builders Association we could see that the law was come where licensing was going to be required and my brother LOL undertook the project of getting a license law put together we worked with the legislators legislators and the builders worked collaboratively to put that license law together so when we were done the Commerce Department called and said Brad holes you got Builder license one so I just mention that because it's somewhat unique but we're going to build villa homes and we're experienced building Villa homes you know we count about 800 villa homes in the in the East metro area we've got a couple of projects that are still at the end of their cycle and we got homes that you can go see a villa home that's in the Royal Club in Lake Elmo also at 21 Oaks in Woodbury the 21 Oaks home um is nearing completion and um those are hom homes that will be representative of what we're going to be bringing here those two homes the one in 21 Oak sells for 850 that's what it's listed at and the one at the Royal Club is about 925 see so I'll come back to that market that we're serving okay but in any case those homes are up and ready for people to see and we're also finishing up a project in North Oaks called Spring farm and those homes start at about a million2 go up to about a million5 now that's North Oaks different than Lake Elmo different than Woodburry and different than Bayport but I just want to show you not not show you I just want to explain we're experienced marking up matching up the product to the setting that we're in okay these are representative illustrations of of the buildings and um these are targeted at people that are empty nesters that have raised their families that are looking at time differently they want someone else to cut the grass someone else to remove the snow and it's a lifestyle decision many of these families have either cabins up north or maybe down you know a patio home or something in Florida or Arizona so this is a kind of a this is where they they have their grandkids this is where their Heritage is they want to stay home to this vinity that's why these villa homes work have worked so well over time it's a lifestyle choice and this is just a listing of all those neighborhoods that we've built each of these neighborhoods all have a story behind them one of the things that we try to do at Brad homes is when we pick new neighbors hoods to develop I looked for what is the story here you know what can we do to meld what we're doing with what naturally is here and by watching the video here the Drone video you can see where B Haven has a story a very powerful story and it's in our best interest to mark up to that you know and to meld it to because that's what people want when you buy a home you want to know what it is and where it is that you're going so that's just represented the neighborhoods we built so we have already heard about the proximity of this neighborhood to inspiration and that kind of is an overview there you can kind of see we can move on and now we're focusing in a little tighter to what it is that we're doing and and the planner did a great job of explaining all this it's kind of the same visual we can move on and this this is a recap of the project scope we've already talked about it so let's move on um once again these are Villa photos interior pictures of what the houses look like on the inside this is a recap of North Oaks uh we're wrapping up north Oaker now but the Interiors of those homes once again lifestyle centered other homes we've got a total of about 16 of these Villa homes that have been developed over time we give people choice each of these homes is custom designed people decide which home fits their need best so that this this these illustrations represented the range of choices within the Villa you know design portfolio that we've developed time tested once again these are architectural renderings this is the Madison home this is actually the home being built in uh the Royal Club at Lake Elmo I put that in here so you can see you could go over there and look at keep going basically what it is it's a home that has the main floor master bedroom and it has a great room and it has a kitchen that's open to the great room there's kind of a informal lifestyle here now nice finishes and by the way these prices are dictated by our customers we don't come in and say you know this is you know this is what it cost you know the price of tea in China no this is directed by our customers so all these finishes sometimes can get on the higher end you know the paneling the wood beams the detail around all the built-ins we do a lot of built-ins on our homes we still have our own carpentry Crews building these houses that's how L and I started in business as Carpenters so we know the difference keep moving there they all well most cases is now at B Haven they'll have lower levels too you know where there's a recck room and other bedrooms for guests and family I know that we'll keep moving here because of time you know I want to honor that so let's just keep moving now I'm going to stop my obviously open for questions but I'm going to call Pete Keeley from collage Architects forward to describe the building which uh he'll do now uh thank you Len and uh good evening members of the commission and and city council uh so I'm Pete key with clage Architects and I've had the opportunity to know Len for 20 years which is when I started my company uh clage Architects I do have about 35 years in so make them feel a little younger but it's good um we specialize in housing and pretty much anything that anybody lives in in the multif family so town houses a Apartments 55 plus Senior Living um independent um we do a few single family but that's not our focus our focus is really to to create homes for somebody that's in a little different um a little different scenario maybe than houses or the vill homes which is why I think Glenn probably put in the call so I think one of couple things that we really focus on as a company and our clients do as well is these are really about creating homes homes that are just slightly different it's it's creating some more um versatility um different lifestyle choices uh as the villa homes do this is what we're thinking here is probably very complimentary to the Villa home in terms of Maintenance uh maybe a slightly smaller size it is people who have a cabin it's people who might have a boat it's people who are may have they're not going to be around quite as much so they don't want the maintenance might be a little bit smaller um anyhow that's number one create great homes in order to create great homes you have to have a great site if you have a great site don't screw it up so that was kind of first and foremost is how do you actually take the the idea of what that site has to offer and really work with it and the second is really to create a very special place and that's what we tried to do here in terms of the architecture and the layout so couple things in in the multif family world and to to create that place is to create an ident identity of the building itself and to really set it into the site so that it feels good and I think that was kind of first and foremost of one of the things we were trying to do here so you'll notice in the building it does have kind of this u-shape with an appendage it was really about some of the things that were happening with the grade um on the North side it does create a courtyard the courtyard has a Terrace that Terrace is over underground parking so we can kind of maximize the parking but it also creates a great kind of community place so one of the things about this building that might be a little bit different different than the Villas is that these places tend to kind of have a sense of community because people are a little there's a little bit more interaction here you do share common corridors but you also have common space so we'll go through the plans in a little bit but that's why we start to site these to create these outdoor places not only the trails to get into town and and walk walk but also places within the building so it's these series of small casual interactions that become really important to make these not just a home but also kind of a community within that area so we really try to think pretty hard about that on the inside and the outside that was kind of part of creating this shape the this series of the courtyard and then I think one of the other things that we did is really to try to take the ends of the building and start to step them down so it is a three-story building the three-story steps to two stories on the end and I'll walk through that a little bit sorry for all the language we'll get into the building and I'll show you a little bit of that but it'll step down on the ends and I think the look of this was trying to go kind of prairie style but I think what we wanted to do is really when you look at the images and the first thing Len showed me is you got to see this video went out and visited the site you really get the sense of the top of a hillside you really get the sense of this place kind of overlooking and that was kind of the ideas to try try to capture that in the roof form and and the top of that to really kind of give it a presence and an Ambience is it the Z that's the forward okay thank you um so just by the Numbers uh just we'll kind of go into this real quick there's basically about 30% one-bedroom units the rest are two and above or one-bedroom den and above this is a mix of people who are going to live here um in this generally it's the two it's two bedrooms but like we said it's somebody with a cabin it's somebody who might have a cabin and goes to Phoenix for the winter and wants something smaller so wide range of people who live here um building materials tend to be very high quality in this we want something to look good the the these are people who are here Lifestyle by choice and want to live in a in a community like this so uh we we again like Glen said we're trying to meet their needs um I'll confess I'm one of these people I live lifelong homeowner for a long time 35 40 years and I'm an apartment dweller now um for a lot of the same reasons that all the other people may it but you want that kind of level of quality that level ability to get away but you really want to feel like this place is home we can dive more into the details of that as we kind of go but I kind of want to get into the architecture and the sighting one of the big things on this was one let's make a really strong presence as we're coming off of stage coach up into the development this is what all the villa homes are going to see everybody's going to drive by this we want that to kind of St Community we also want to say this building isn't going to be a wall it's not going to be a three-story building it's going to have a feeling of layering it's going to have a feeling that there's front porches that people can be on there's individual porches and so that's kind of what you're seeing that's kind of what we're trying to set up at this location right here so stone is the base so we're trying to have kind of that feeling of a natural outcropping of stone quality materials some front porches that people can kind of be on and you're seeing out at the front kind of at the base of the building and then it step steps back from a twostory kind of to a three story expression on this end so you see up on that top all of these have kind of instead of a wall of building there's some recesses within this so there's recesses for the porches there's recesses up on top so we're not just kind of again creating a wall we're bringing the wall in and out so that there's different living arrangements which we also find works great for the tenants and the residents because they also want to feel like they have a special place in each of these I live in that unit my unit is is this one it has this unique opportunity that's why they make these choices this is the front as you're kind of coming in you can see off to the right of the image that's the driveway that comes in in the parking area and right where that blue car that's where it kind of dips down low into the underground parking so this does have underground parking extended deck so we can get some more in I will also say in this particular image the site um slopes from the back of the image to the front of the image so this is actually the low point on the site which is kind of why we're bringing the parking in from this location that's also why there's this retaining wall in front of it but we're also saying this is where we've got the no notification saying bave will kind of be this nice decorative sign heavy plantings this is actually the front door as people are walking in you'll notice this is a kind three-story expression you're kind of seeing the porches in the deck uh We've defined the building in a couple different ways but we've got kind of a two-story data that wraps the rim of the building so on the left side of this we have two stories carried up in stone and and then the decks themselves they kind of have a two story portion that you're seeing in white and then kind of the recessed area up above that's kind of defining the so again there's a lot of work to try to bring down the scale of it but also to create a layering effect for personal space kind of inside outside which just like all the villa homes people like to have that relationship of being able to get on that out on this deack this is this is done with sizing for considerable outdoor uh deck space excuse me uh this is the back Courtyard side you can see on the two ends how it starts to step down from a three-story expression to a two-story expression where the hip roof kind of steps down to be two stories and that's as it's starting to get back into the villa homes into the neighborhood and then a quite a large distance opening uh for this kind of uh Terrace area you're seeing the trellis in the middle there's some uh fire pits there'd be outdoor dining there'd be Grill areas um we often have a place to to kind of like a uh congregate in a way whether that's the fire pit or or or eating or a lot of different varieties of doing that all of this is yet to be programmed we're kind of at initial phase as we go through this we would kind of dial this in and say who do we think is really going to be here what are the very specific things that they might want to kind of fine-tune the amenities this is then wrapping around the east side and again I think you're starting to see kind of How It's stepping down as a two-story portion of the building that is act the two story to three stories accentuated through kind of the change in color the added roofs I talked about on the balconies kind of being two stories and then planting so we'll be able to plant the base this is actually the highest portion of the site so the building is very close to grade and this is going to come back in a moment as we talk a little bit about height this is the high portion of the site and then it starts to slope away and then this is probably the low portion of the site so this is as the you know the building is kind of flat so in one case the building is closer to gr another place it's a little further away from grade what's happening on the right hand side of this is actually some rain Gardens but you will see through the front of this that this does drop to from a three-story expression to a two so everything that's happening on that upper level is a little bit different than the the first two levels little a few more windows those tend to be the bigger units we have combined units to create more of a penthouse style unit on these ends these are 19950 Square F feet they're going to rent for probably $55,000 Plus um they're going to be great units and they're going to have long views and they're going to be kind of the crust of the Hill they're the top of the building running through the plans this is the underground parking it's basically 100 parking STS um one great advantage of this style living is underground parking uh it's warm it's heated it feels good to get in your car no scraping so this is kind of a big deal um we also so we want to increase the number of parking that's outside compared to or I'm sorry inside compared to outside we have found in these projects that it is generally is not a 2:1 ratio that happens it's more related to bedrooms than it is related to actual numbers of units a three-bedroom unit is very different than a one-bedroom yes you can have two people living in one-bedroom unit but generally you're going to have um less cars the more one-bedrooms you have so I say that as we get into the parking counts which are a little bit below 2.0 because we think this is is actually probably overp parked for the market at this level um so we can come back to that one also getting through this what you're seeing in the dark blue area is the common space the light blue area are the units you'll notice a range of these from about 850 Square F feet that would be the smallest one bedroom and then it ranges like I said up to about 19950 square feet as a more Penthouse style I'd say The Sweet Spot is between 14 and 1,600 square F feet these are going to rent for probably two $2.50 cents a square foot um again what's going to really depend they might be a little lower might be a little bit higher than that um it's going to depend on the actual target market for this and the amenities and the Finish package as well and there may be a range in that so generally what happens is we'll have a higher price point for the penthouse with nicer finishes yes gas stoves all the things you might expect on um kind of on the Villa home side um are going to be in the in in the apartments now there might be some that are just tweaked a little bit less to provide a range of range of what's attainable second floor more or less Stacks over the first floor we do have common storage areas we do have some small little breakout spaces I'm sorry I miss kind of the main part in the middle here which is the dark blue on the common space these will generally be a fitness area there will be places to host families for dinner that's a big one uh common kitchen so you can bring your family over for for Thanksgiving if you want to or have a small party room but generally what they're used for is actually for the community themselves to get together and hang out um they've done we're just working on a 55 plus building uh in the township of mota which is based on another one in Motta Heights and have found that these become real communities I mean people really get to know each other and these places actually are really busy in the market rate World um they may be a little bit less um depending on what amenities you put into them but the more that you work with the management team to kind of create the Right Mix the more this really kind of sings as a community second floor and then you'll see the third floor begins to step back the ones on the three ends the 1950 those are set partially in the growth they'll be kind of attic style spaces but they'll have big broad views big Windows overall so that's the overall look I do want to go through real quick because we talked about that was the 63 unit version I know what you're looking at right now is is an idea of a range so that's kind of one upper end of the range this is the lower end of the range to say what does it look like to be a kind of a a townhouse style unit now this is 30 to get 30 into here it's basically still a three-story building these are tuck under style Town Homes they're not attached attached Town Homes wouldn't fit the density of 30 which is kind of the minimum um to hit the numbers that you want to hit so this means that there's three stories of building sticking out of the ground basically the same height that we were just talking about now on the perimeter the Earth can kind of burm up a little bit to kind of um hide some of that but it will still Express itself roughly as a two and two and a half story building want to talk a little bit about the height on what that also looks like um when we talk about Stories versus height and it's just something to think about now and as going forward uh generally speaking a story is 11 feet floor to floor people want 9 foot ceilings structures roughly 2 feet sometimes 10ft ceilings are pretty nice for some of the upper units that gets us to 33 ft that's just the building so there's grade on the outside it always wants to be above ground not Garden level so we don't want to bury these you want the drainage so generally it's looked at at average grade and that works for a flat roof building to be under 35 ft it doesn't work as well for a pitch drift building because the pitch then wants to go up so um going forward with this I do want to just kind of make that note that we believe the three story is great believe that tapering this to a twostory expression on the ends is great but there is would probably want to be some consideration about doing a building that's fitting of this which is more residential with kind of a pitched roof in that as well that would be probably the exact same thing on the townhouse as we try to do this um these end up not being one level living they end up being garages and then one level of units and then one level above same issue on the height but then it's a different slightly different profile of who's going to live here because they're stairs and you tend to live across stairs I tried to fit um we did a just finished completed a project in um Badness Heights which was a two-story attached car garages and it fits about 20 units so if you if you want to take a look at what was done at um The Reserve at Sono uh that style of town home gets about yields about 20 which is a little bit below where you're at uh kind of for the numbers so just want to kind of show where where that was on the Range um between the two style of units so I think with that oh maybe I'll kind of wrap back to kind of the market and and you know who lives here and why it's good compy so the villa homes offer certain things um a little different parking Arrangement but they're bigger in size they do tend to be there are people who want that rent by choice um they tend to be people who are probably um the price Point's actually probably not going to be far off the rental payments versus the mortgage payment but it may depend on their situation of what they have cash on hand to get into something somewhat or there's someone who's taking money out out of the homes that they have with the equity and using that and not worrying about taxes and insurance and having the apartment and the rent which gives them freedom and flexibility to kind of come and go as they will so it's um and again not knowing the exact Market or who the development entity is going to be on that but you know I've worked for countless numbers of developers are kind of all in this in this category where we're looking at that's what it's going to end up being we need a pretty high PR price point to make this work and it's what it demands and what that demands is really nice housing L's going to set that parameter um and that's what we've got here and hopefully that's what shows in the building that's here I think that's the end of um that part of the presentation I don't know if you want to do questions now or wait yeah as long as beats up here any questions let me explain a little bit before you ask I mean before I open it up what I needed to do I asked Len can you go to the mic please Pete you can stay close here what we needed to do is establish some parameters on the multif family building in other words how does it look and what would be an acceptable design detail to make it work here as opposed to letting other people come in and show us what they would like we took the initiative of having Pete design a building so that it it illustrates these design features that he's gone through with you now and I want you to know that I want to you know if you don't know where you're going any road will get you there no we know where we're going this these are the design parameters I wanted to explain that can can you be a little more clear is this an actual this is the plan because I feel like there's very little plan other than a few pictures of what it might look like so is are you actually intending to do this or is this just an idea of what could be there it's an idea okay that makes me a little more nervous but anyways okay let's continue okay um yeah let's keep going with the presentation and then we'll do some questions yeah I'm gonna I'm going to introduce um Jacob Steen thank you hi Jacob thank you mayor council members planning Commissioners I promise I'm going to keep it brief I just want to touch on a couple of items uh specifically related to the conditions of approval as Pete mentioned we would like some flexibility with respect to that 35 foot high uh maximum with the multif family like he said we could probably with with this concept we could probably get 35 ft but it would be a flat roof and I think we'd be losing a lot of the character it's really important uh to Len and Pratt homes that we we have uh a certain quality of build uh for this multif family what are you suggesting for the height um you know I think that realistically we probably be adding between six and seven additional feet so you know 3 feet or or maybe I think 42 what about 7t 7 feet that's 42 just um I think a couple ways to do it one would be uh 35 ft to the eve line and then a lot of times we see it measured to the midpoint of the Gable which is generally 7t and then the other question comes about at grade so that can be from the first level that would be 7 feet but then for instance and I just want to bring it up when the you go down into the garage that's a full level exposed it only happens for 2% of the building but at that point you do see the full level even though you're going down so there's some accommodation understanding where that is often times we see it from the first floor level or we add 3 to four feet for average grade and then you just take all the way around so I would generally say if you added 10 feet to that and said from average grade to the midpoint of the Gable is about right I don't know there what number is that yeah there was a lot of different numbers in a little confus that be 45 that would be 45 from average grade mid perf perfect thank you be flexible thank you uh with respect to phasing as you know this is a multiphase project and the first phase is Villas and the second phase is the multif family dwelling we understand that the the city has some concerns about uh maybe some other developments in the past and we've we've been discussing with staff uh and we hear you um you know we're in in talks with a number of multif family developers we're hopeful that Within uh you know months if not weeks we can have something nailed down but we know that uh there's a lot of uncertainty in the market and we just want to make sure we have the flexibility that being said I've had a number of discussions with the city attorney today uh about the concerns that you have and uh have a proposal that I think will hopefully uh satisfy some of these concerns now this Villa section we've got 35 homes that's realistically about a 2 to threeyear buildout for those 35 homes uh and what we would propose uh hopefully we're going to have this multif family through the Planning Commission City Council in a matter of of months like I said but what we would propose is that as we build through this Villa phase that the third the last third of those Villas so the last 11 or 12 of those Villas would be contingent on making sure we have uh a multif family proposal before the city that meets the requirements tonight we would be willing to to work that into the uh conditions of approval as well as the development agreement and we think uh that that's kind of a unique solution that would help satisfy that concern and address that now it's you know it's a a big risk on Pratt homes but uh it's while it's not our first choice if we are unable to identify a multif family developer uh Pratt homes would happily move forward with a town home development at that 30 units uh at that point now again we're going to work for higher density but we know that we can still hit that Peak density uh if we have to and making that last third contingent on that multif family piece we think should address those concerns explain what that means that it's contingent on that yeah so so PR so practically speaking as we go through the buildout uh so the first let's say 22 23 homes uh would would be permitted as they come through the building permits for those remaining I guess 11 homes would be contingent on bringing forward a a project uh so understanding that you know a portion of this project could be on the Shelf until we have that multifam uh really forces us to be committed uh to finding that and really puts you know puts Pratt homes money where their mouth is okay so really we're shares shares that risk you know puts that risk on us ultimately if that makes sense why wait yeah why wait uh well it's not that they're waiting I think they just don't have a plan right right we well we we have a plan and Ian you don't have a builder you don't have someone that wants right we don't have we don't have a builder today uh and as as you know uh there is some uncertainty in this market um we we think that there's going to be some stabilization of interest rates stabilization of building materials but there's always uncertainties and what we want to do is make sure that we have an opportunity to find the right partner anyone who buys one of these villa homes is going to expect a pretty high level of uh development on this multif family piece and that's really important to Pratt homes uh which is why we haven't found that right partner yet we've had very lengthy discussions with developers but because we weren't able to come to uh of the mines on the quality and the type of build uh that we would want to see we are going to continue to work to find that right fit uh and again if if we need to uh Len is committed to building out Town Homes at the Quality that that his buyers expect thank you do you have do you have anything else to present before we the only one one last comment about the county right of way and as as staff uh summarized at the last 11th hour we got got a letter from the county and it was uh I think it was just last Thursday afternoon or Friday and they asked for a pretty substantial amount of RightWay and what they've proposed is about 165 ft wide uh roundabout at Stage Coach which is about as big of a roundabout as you could ask for um as it as we've laid it out over our existing plan that would lose potentially one even two Villa homes in addition to uh at least least two or maybe even more Acres of old growth oak trees which we're as you saw we're trying to preserve as best we can we're pretty confident that was a bit of a a rush job by the county we've already reached out and we're working on setting up a time to meet with them to right siize that right of way uh we'd like to work continue to work with this city engineer uh with the County engineer and our Engineers to make sure that we can just identify that so what we would ask is with respect to that condition I don't think you need to change that condition we just want to make sure that the city gives us a little bit of leeway and we don't just write the the county of blank check on that and that we actually work with them to to right siize so with that that's all thank you okay um staff I guess will give you the opportunity to have ask any questions or make comments before we open the public hearing for I think nobody but do you does staff have any no okay um then I guess the Planning Commission chair can open the public he all right so I'm going to open the public hearing for the Planning Commission to um for anyone to C comment on the both the annexation proposal and the um resolution on amending the comprehensive plan if you would like to make a comment please state your name and street address for the record anyone wishing to make a comment all right uh I move to close the public hearing all right I will second that all those in favor I all those opposed the public hearing is closed all right thank you chair Kelly um so now I guess it's time for us to share our thoughts since typically we would have had a Planning Commission meeting first and you guys would give us a recommendation I guess it makes the most sense for us to hear your questions and thoughts and you you may call up to the podium anyone that you think can answer your question or there's staff here that may also so do you want to start Beth since you're right here next to me um sure uh I have a couple of questions before I make comments um one I had is on um water capacity city engineer um is does the city have the capacity to and sewer and for sewer and water to this development based upon the amount of up to I guess 100 and 100 units five units five it could be possible um Madam chair and uh Madame mayor the uh we have done an analysis and we've reviewed a couple of different options the latest one uh that we um that we modeled is 97 units uh and that is it's it's close enough to the maximum of 70 that I can I can say that we're fairly confident that even if it was a total of 70 in the multif family we'd be fine however the caveat is in our review that once that concept is finalized we would want to go back and check the models one more time but uh but we we can say fairly confidently that regardless we can we can say with with certainty that our models tell us the 97 units uh can be served and then if there's another 10 or however many that were on the maximum um we're we're within reason that we feel we we the your systems both sanitary sewer and water can supply the needs of the new development and you took into consideration the new school and things correct okay yes we did right than Madam May Madam chair um if I can chime in on that um I'd like to hear from from the developer on um circumstances such as Woodburry and like Elmo on what they did for water conservation efforts or what was required in those locations um if they know at this point um as you all may know we have um severe irrigation that occurs in the summer um where our water use is like seven times greater in the summer than it is in the winter primarily due to irrigation so um any insight that could provide on that would be great thank you Matt that was going to be one of my questions too was the I would highly encourage and like to see a storm water reuse for irrigation I'm gonna ask Dwayne s to to address that because he's in charge of doing the Landscaping plan types of grass grasses and okay what can you tell us Dwayne so where the infiltration basins are located is sitting on a bed of sand there's no chance of water being retained throughout this whole site so we would consider some of the alternate uses that were like native plants low uh low water landscaping around both the village and the apartment including a Fescue mix and sod that wouldn't need constant watering like a blueg grass do so that's kind of what we look for you know zeroscape is the term that we use that's where you're not adding extra water to keep plants that aren't native alive in your great around your house okay that's definitely important and and the the current the trees that we've got proposed right now every single species is native to Minnesota good so it's not chasing water Jan would not have it any other way right right thank you um my next uh question is about uh the Declaration that was M mentioned that would be a part of the I'm not sure that use know on the homeowners who buy the homes so they know about the can you explain more about how legally binding that is and what yeah it well the concern is really about providing notice right so so making sure that they're aware of what's coming uh so what we're proposing is a couple of combination or a couple of different Tools in combination so again you know even just looking at this picture until this gets built there will be you know presumably a coming soon uh sign it would be attractive sign but providing notice that there is a multif family project coming soon uh but then in the purchase agreements we would have very clear disclosures about uh the fact that there will be a multifam under these parameters uh and this is something that in fact we view successfully in a number of different situations um whenever there's a uh whether it's an adverse type of uh building or or other type of development in in the community where where the community is concerned about providing notice so uh not necessarily a legal legally binding uh Clause but really at notice all right thank you um and then I guess um so there were a couple Illusions to kind of what the price point of both the Villas and the multif family housing would be um but I have to say I'm concerned Bayport is a blue collar town with a very large mix of people from different backgrounds and we I love that I think the community here loves that and um I'm I just would like to hear more about what the price points are because I this looks beautiful but I'm a little concerned I don't know how it fits into our community and also I don't feel clear on how this fits into the Met council's comprehensive plan and Bay port's comprehensive plan let me address address uh maybe address this in this way it's been my experience in most communities that a range of housing choices really matters um and I'm I'm I'm I I like the eclectic blend downtown here it's cool you know people are living affordably and I did a study of affordable housing in Bayport and I shared that with staff there's a lot of consternation about more expensive housing we don't want to be Out Of Reach of people's desire to live in Bayport but why not give that upper end product a chance here in Bayport in other words um it's okay to have a variety and when I looked at that site you know Jan and Bradley site it will carry an upper end product there and um the neighboring community of Stillwater for instance you know the same kind of a community that draws people there uh many of them are upper bracket but that doesn't mean that there there's not affordable housings it's a blending of upper end and affordable housing can I I that's part of my question is it seems high for our area like what do you guys do research on what not for this area how many people are looking for houses that are this expensive and you're very I don't want to say limited but most of what the housing that you're saying is for empty nesters 55 and older so that's narrowing your it's not a requirement though right can can you clarify that they don't have to be empty nesters in 55 they do not have to be empty they don't but I'm saying a one-bedroom or two-bedroom place is not going to probably be a family well I think about like my children who are in their 20s trying to find a place to live is difficult too so I mean it's kind of that end of the spectrum would want a one bedroom or two bedroom as well but could they afford yeah Place yeah they could they're living in a place in Milwaukee right now and I'd love for them to come here anyways but anyway I just want to know like what is your research we haven't actually heard the price points either and I think that was your original question so could you clarify that first what are the actual price points for the Villas and what we're envisioning for the multif and I know that's a guesstimate right now we not at I'm not asking for a firm number but I do want an idea the Villas we should have a good idea right let me explain again um when we've been at this in this northeast area for 52 years and um I have we have built collectively or company to this Market I have had any number of people over the years ask me Len is there any chance that you could come down to the river towns Still Water MH Bayport I I want to live closer to my boat and the recreational activities around the the river if I don't have a boat I'd like the restaurants and I like to be able to spend time down there instead of driving from what I'll call Minneapolis St Paul down here and then driving home at night why can't I just live here I'm confident this is at my risk it is it is but I I pointed out the reason I wanted to do this I said there's two homes right now you know in one of them in Lake ELO it's a finished Madison Villa product that's listed at just over 900,000 we've built 40 villa homes over there okay now that's a golf course Community but still nonetheless there there people people that are in what I'll call that retirement got to get something so that it's easier to care for these are typically upper management people some of them are second generation um wealth in other words it's been passed down and they're investing in a house because it's stable for them versus the stock market that's going up and down but bottom line um I'm conf confident and it is at our risk but I can go down through all the communities I I listed them that's why I listed them right but I'm just talking about like what do you do to when you choose an area how do you decide okay I think we can sell you know I'm going to I'm to build 50 or whatever houses it it's a visceral thing after having done this okay and I go in and I know there's Market studies could have a market study but in the end it's our risk I am confident that when we put this up people are going to say I want to live in Bayport at Bay Haven and in they'll come now listen what the positive on this is if you ever looked at the tax revenue on on all of this okay I'm aware because I pay a lot of taxes so yes and what happens is it kind of rejuvenates things I was in Hugo Minnesota people thought Len you can't sell anything over a modest price in Hugo you know back when we got started there at Victor Gardens and at Fable Hill and I'm going to explain what we did is we new new construction is expensive to do the products the labor the land the development costs by the time you're all done you can't really and that's what that report I I shared with the mayor too is that a aable price band it's literally impossible to hit brand new so you might as well do something nice so that that embellishes the community it'll it'll Ripple around these people will be up here coming downtown here to attend uh you know to to eat to attend events to to be supportive of the you know the public purposes here and through their tax valuations they're going to be making a significant investment you know know in the local community and schools by the way yeah I was just trying to find I had uh communicated with someone way early on in this whole process about what kind of housing would be the best fit right what what's needed right now and I can't remember what her name is in what what what uh organ organization is with the one that would you know know like what the housing needs are and POS l no it's literally like a a County department and I can't think of it but anyways I couldn't find her email but she said anything is going to sell she was had no hesitation I'm not worried about that either no go ahead I'm sorry I'm not worried about selling what I'm worried about is the whole country and Minnesota specifically has an affordable housing problem in our community has an affordable housing problem and I I think what you have post here is beautiful and wonderful I'm just I don't know that as a community member as a citizen of Minnesota this is the direction that I think I I I believe you this could sell but how is this helping the people who need housing in Minnesota and the unhoused people who live in Washington County what are you doing or what are we as a community doing to help those people you know what you can join me and I am working on a way of hom supplying homeless people houses it's a different whole perspective here now you know well I I have worked in housing for a number of years and so I'm familiar with all of that but the problem is is we can't we can't get a a hotel turned into housing in water and we can't get the people who work in our community house yeah and so I just am I just want to yeah I just want to know how $900,000 Villas which are gorgeous and I would love to live in those yeah one floor housing I would love it but how how is that helping our community well you're giving a a choice of a place to live in your community as Charming as it is you know and once again Mike experience they're going to it'll be a net plus to the area to have have these people move into Bayport um they're going to fill your places with um the ability to take and afford things the ability to take and volunteer uh I I guess in America it's always been a matter of choice and I support that choice and I too am sensitive though to to the affordable issue and I spent some time studying Bayport I did yeah I would love to see that yeah and I have the same concern as you did Beth and he made he made a very good point and he did do that study that Bayport doesn't does a lot of that job of of supplying affordable homes because we have a lot of smaller I mean he did the study and he showed us look at how your housing is right now is you have a lot of affordable small homes right and as those older generation moves out then some newer people are moving in but we do have a gap on that high end you know we don't have those but and then we have you know inspiration is is a step above I'd say you know maybe some of the other homes in in by the lake yeah and and we also have the river um homes River it's a lake technically you were right but um so I don't know I I was I felt the same way I was really like we need to do more for affordable housing but I I have slowly become convinced that this is actually a good fit for us and I think it's going to really make Bayport shine even more because we are going to have different levels and I like that I hope the multif family has you know as they're suggesting some smaller units that are more affordable but still nice you know high quality people don't always need a ton of space they just want to live in a nice place right so mayor just to help put the housing into context so I was looking at the 2018 comp of plan which is when the city last looked at the housing from a policy standpoint so at the time there were 921 homes in Bayport and by the qualifications at that point 721 or 78% qualified as regionally affordable so available to households with less than 80% average median income the goal for the city from the period from adoption of the comprehensive plan through 2030 was to develop seven new units it's not a requirement it's a goal um we recognized in the comprehensive plan that it's very challenging to do new construction you can't build the access to Stage Coach Trail and have affordable housing or extend the utilities and meet all the other requirements that go with new development so what the comprehensive plan outlined was a number of areas adjacent to downtown where the city would allow for higher density housing to be developed that creates the opportunity for density to lower the price and spread the cost out Redevelopment also presents greater opportunity for Grants and other financial assistance to be brought be against those costs uh to again make it possible but the other thing the comprehensive plan emphasized was the need to maintain existing houses in Bayport as supplying that affordable component uh either from an ownership standpoint or a rental standpoint um so again the goal for the city is to provide a range of housing this is obviously hitting the top point because the uniqueness of the property and the costs involved with new development um but while still having a real substantial base of what would be defined as affordable housing I've worked on projects in other communities where it's affordable and when you're talking about it doesn't sound affordable when you're talking $1,600 worth of rent you know the the context is just off and it's not something the city can address on its own through its land use controls and decision making especially on we build project like this really good points thank you Dan um do you want to continue with your or do you have more um I guess the only other question that I um had was on this outlaw that cannot qualify as the park it's just land that would be never would be Ste um it's just too it's not it's steep is that though very steep steep and and would that be set up to be uh yeah there you box on yep Outlaw a which surrounds all the development units um to the west north and east that will be retained by the homeowners association for the development it's not being credited towards Park dedication or being accepted by the city and would there be anything that would limit them from somehow trying to develop that in the future the intent would be to deed restrict it so that it can't be further subdivided and you cannot construct structures there's no way you could well maybe you could build on it but it doesn't seem like you could I think if you could he would have right you can build on anything but it involves cutting down the trees and massive grading and it's yeah practical yeah all right thank youon I'm I'm up um I appreciate the um understanding that the risk that's taking to develop such a beautiful site um what I'm thinking about is inspiration and the greater than 15 years it took to get to the point that it's at now um understanding there's some circumstances in the last 15 years that have impacted that type of development economically that's happened in our world around us what I'm wondering this is a question for ly um all the projects in over 52 years you've been doing this um I'm thinking about inspiration like I told like I mentioned and then the future of this site um have have you run into the situation where you could not finish a project good question no okay I've hung in there through it all through through the housing crash I did that's what happened yeah that was that was the initial one and I'm familiar with I'm I'm familiar with inspiration um I I didn't build there but I was familiar with its origin many people did build there yeah except you yeah we had a multitude of Builders yeah no I I understand my my initial reaction why I ch I was I was offered an opportunity to build build an inspiration but I thought at the time that it was going in once again following intuition I felt that it was a little bit farther out there for this kind of a community uh to take and and build at the pace MH I knew it would come along you know it it's a great IDE idea but the pace timing wise would expose you know to the economic of which really kind of Hit the reality of it if if you've had every day I wake up and I wonder if I'm going to you know have enough work for our our our carpenters and and I understand what it means to financially commit and I have kind of I wasn't born with this but I have kind of a future look at what's going to happen on the horizon I do you got to live with it to know what I'm talking about and I just was a little uneasy e at that time with everything that was being proposed it wasn't that it wasn't a beautiful concept and in the end it's completed but it took that massive adjustment that was a big downturn that hit it broadside you know and by hook or crook it emerges now we're in a different day right now here it's a different day you know and we're here on the edge that's inspiration behind us right now we're looking forward now to this opportunity if you drive up and down this these river towns both in Minnesota and Hudson or excuse me in Wisconsin tell me how many of these Villa brand new homes are there that would really be in competition with what's going on right here I don't know I can't shop for a home that noice I'm going to I'm going to tell you there aren't any there are other things you can buy in the river towns can't still water's got plenty of those condos and so on well I'm not talking about that I'm talking about what we're doing right here so I've developed an instinct on this and it's at our risk my our partner our risk that this is going to work and if I hadn't built 850 of these homes for people that are at this same price point I wouldn't I I've I've learned by uh the School of Hard Knox you know and I have completed every project I've started would you uh sorry just to build on that so I I know you're aware of inspiration I am but because the multif family thought uh ideas came so much that's I think where we're all concerned because it came so much later the homeowners couldn't tolerate it no so how do you how do you temper expectations of the homeowners around there you make it very clear right from the beginning this is a multifamily piece of property and you put it in the purchase agreement where they're acknowledging that they've been told that you have a sign there and you can actually put it in a deed or in an HOA acknowledging that so no one can come back and say they weren't told okay and I'm confident with that listen if my our our our Villa buyers are going to have to drive by that vacant lot and I'm going to have to do a lot of talking about what the potential is so I have all the motivation in the world to get something up and underway and I'm you know I uh this Marketplace is adjusting it is but we're going to come out of it it's going to come out it it'll come out and where do people where do people want to live well they're going to want to live right here at Bay Haven they will the East Side migration here is going to settle right there ah are going over there yeah and saving our pennies yeah excuse me well anyway all right you have another one do you have more questions I I do um first a comment the location of that multi- loose site you can't avoid it from what I'm somewh I'm seeing when you drive in from Stage Coach right it is the first thing you see is the multi-use site so it's not something that can be avoided the as developing for the initial homeowner that is going to buy that first sight they can't not avoid it right no we've talked a little bit if you take a look at the land plan and Dwayne has been working really hard to get that multif family building position remember when we came in it was on one end well we went in there and it and it you know Fire Protection you can't get around the backside so it needs to have a route around it for protection and that's where we started really focusing in on the scale of this the scale of it it cannot overwhelm and that's where Pete comes along and he listened to us I wanted those outside corners dropped you saw that beautiful building that's not an inexpensive building to build if you look at apartment buildings you know they go straight up and down where he has set back that upper level around all of the corners and the articulation that exists going down the the road that's exactly what I said we wanted MH and he got it see and that's what we're showing to perspect we're showing this right now to perspective Builders and developers we're showing this and I don't you haven't had any takers oh well I can't say this because I've got more than you know more than one person is really interested in this okay that's good to hear that that would make me very sad if you were proposing this and then when it comes to someone who's actually going to build it they build a big old box another reason I've got Pete key here guess what he's got clients that understand this higher level of design okay good okay okay and uh I'd like to make an announcement but it's premature now but it's not like we don't have candidates because those that are in the know that see this as what I'll call an attractive building they're showing up okay thank you uh last question I've got is I don't know if we heard price point yet we' talked around it we not heard for we're all it or at least 5,000 anyway I'm assuming price point on the multif family um so that will be developed uh Market studies and so if the idea is that there isn't the ability to afford it these numbers will change or if there's more ability to afford they will also change I will say a comparable projects in this range based on how this was modeled uh one-bedroom is probably about 1,400 to 18800 a two bed monthly rent monthly rent cuz these are all going to be rentals in Your Mind Correct these are rentals not condos so the 850 950 wherever the to I mean so that's a a purchase right and so you need the down payment these are it's going to be first month it's going to be you know there's some additional fees there's generally dog fees and Cat fees and some other things but somebody coming in can is probably going to be is going to probably start at400 they will range from first floor to third floor third floor is usually higher uh there tends to be some units that are kind of maybe on the inside Corners that are a little less desirable so even on a square foot an 850 Square fet you know it's going to probably start about 1 1400 to 18800 that's the range uh two bedrooms about 2,000 to Upper twos so 2,800 2900 then when you get to the two pluses that's where it starts to kind of escalate because then you're they're better fridges they're better appliances there's a lot of kind of betterments to it so that'll probably be in the 3500 to 4,000 range okay perfect thank you is that is there a vision for it to ever be like condos instead of because if you deal with now you have to have a rental management company and things like that right and that makes me nervous too correct um so oh yeah so I think that's a fabulous question you want somebody who is a long-term operator who owns you know and so that's great questions when this comes back is to ask their track record uh there are very good management companies who take care of things um who are very good about it uh that's who you want you want the long do we have control over that as who who the rental management company is going to be I don't think we do the developer you have you the developer but those are certainly questions that you can ask as they come in and a lot of the development entities are also management companies as well combined company so this this price point at this price point they're going to be the same so I would also say that think yeah at this price point the uh tenants also are going to have expectations as well certainly thank you thank you that's another question um I just for us so really we're beginning talking about phase one right that's what we're kind of talking about first phase two is the multif family which I really do I mean we we do need that and I don't I don't think it's his job to provide affordable housing and all that stuff because a new build is super expensive I do I do get that so I I think I think we do have affordable housing in our in our city and this isn't the place that's going to provide that so in any case but um I I just I I like the multifam thing and I feel like that's a puzzle piece that is up in the air that we all seem kind of nervous about the the first part in the houses seem good but so I don't know um I know we're going with this first section and trying to um Annex and get everything set up for that but what if just those things are done and then this other portion isn't I know that I know we said we could put something in the contract like okay they can't start building the last 12 until this multif family housing is done I mean is that something reasonable that the city would mayor Implement so commissioner Sig freed is correct basically you're looking at approving the overall development which includes lot one block one as building site for something in the future that conceptually is this beautiful multiple family building that needs to come back with full plans architecture floor plans parking Landscaping lighting all the details and that has to come back through the Planning Commission so it's really difficult to you know address that the discussion you've all been having is fascinating because you want the details of the entire project and it reflects this strange balance that you know Partners development is partnership between cities and the private sector cities kind of gives you the direction on what you go there we'll provide the streets and the infrastructure you take all the risk and build it so it that's the challenge that the Planning Commission and developer work through as part of these discussions so we we can't answer all the questions about lot one block five um the developer proposal to limit the number of building permits that would be issued uh being that they're offering it I think it's workable I wouldn't have recommended the city require that just it creates this weird dynamic where you're artific you're saying well you can develop this but now you're saying well you can't you have to wait and do this at the same time so it inserts the city into the private Market in their risk but if they want to offer it uh and add it as a condition then we can certainly do that and then it' be up the burden would be up to them to come back and argue that they can or cannot meet that so can I just ask a followup of that if we uh vote no if everybody votes no at proceeding at this time until they come back with a more developed plan it's that then it's Pratt homes and whoever the future whether they want to go forward with this or not is that kind of Mayor that's correct because this is first and foremost an annexation so city has ultimate discretion to say we want this in the city we don't want this In The City the second thing is you have a comprehensive plan Amendment and Zoning establishing what the allowed uses that's purely policy on behalf of the city to say yes or no um so we could choose to an well I can't but people can choose to vote to Annex this land MH and then amend the comprehensive plan to say what we hope goes there but we can't say they can't build there so as you you're progressing down the decisions so the com the annexation so now it's in the city okay now the comprehensive plan says it should be this land use it zoned this subject to these standards the discretion the city has gets less and less to say no okay there is more because this is a planned unit development because otherwise these should all be 80 foot wide Lots 12 you're going to have to grade the entire site and do all kinds of things but the further down that pyramid that you get the less ability just say no okay Matt you look like you had something to say yeah I just wanted to add so part of the the second phase obviously is the multif family right and because of the density requirements future land use wouldn't allow potentially for VAs to be plac there right it will have to be multifam if that's any concern or minimum 30 dwelling unit at a minimum of that that would still be multi family in theory yeah and that kind of goes back to the the notification portion of the Declaration and the HOA documents and the sign on the property ultimately it's the city council that has to be able to say No this must be a minimum of 30 units up to and be able to stand up to anybody in that area that opposes that inspiration didn't have the same constraints the the density could be met without a multiple family point the city's obligations to the regional plan under the comprehensive plan mandate that type of density on that property all right thank you questions Colleen are you finished with your thoughts okay Katie do you want to start on that end do you have any um well a lot of them were already asked the water and sewer was one especially like with the new school cuz kids like to flush toilets more than they go so and then the price points they answer too so I don't really know if I have much more I mean I guess I would really like to know if this apartment's beautiful and I don't see just old people moving there my brother-in-law who is 26 years old is in Woodberry right now and he probably would love that here so close to family close to pickle ball he's too young to be playing pickleball you're never too young to play Pickleball a nine-year-old that does it okay thank you Ethan do you have thoughts or questions or oh yeah I do I mean obviously City staff and the attorneys and everybody else have gone through this extensively I don't see I I could care less what the price points are like he said it's completely on his uh you know it's his risk to sell them or rent them or you know you know I don't think City should get involved in that at all because that's not really our role I think if you're following the rules and the water and sewer can do all this stuff and we're doing all the things that you're supposed to be doing I don't I don't see an issue with it especially with the uh taxes that it will bring I know that Bayport is built almost completely out I mean obviously we have to Annex more land to build in this town so to me it's a it's an no one thing I do am curious about though if they are Apartments how does the tax how does that work like the taxes on like I think it's the building owner has the asset and they P the taxes yeah right a lot of noding out there yeah yeah I was just curious about that I don't know if it would be a benefit to have that or have the town homes or would those be rentals as well or would the if they go with the town home would that would you sell those or those would be rentals as well no purchased yeah those would be for purchase so I don't know if there's a benefit one way or the other for the city on that financially but might be one thing to look at if it's okay financially better to have more units more you know tax pay I don't know if you want to you have a comment to that yeah I I do it's kind of based on the value so the value of the Town Homes depending what the the for sale of that versus the value of the apartments and having more Apartments twice as many apartments they at the same value is twice as much okay so just real rough numbers yeah we really are lacking in apartments so I kind of I mean I like the idea of ownership but since these are high level Apartments it doesn't bother me as much I think and then I just want to make sure we have a good management company but I don't know how much control we have so no again I don't well like like they said before it's like they're spending $4,000 a month it's not like they're going to have some you know well my H my son has in places that are very nice but the management companies are not that great yeah so well again I don't think we I don't think we have control of that I know and that's what makes me nervous I don't want people going oh I'm never going to live there because it's a hor they don't fix things and the lights flicker and whatever you know somehow I'm guessing they generally just complain about it and they don't know what their rights are to get it fixed yeah need to talk to you just uh yeah just from experience regardless yes go ahead I think if gentleman's been in business for 52 years I think he has a pretty good track record yeah but he's not going to do the build the multif family well I think he's going to choose somebody that yes I would hope so is going to be probably pretty good there isn't anybody more concerned about the the developer of those multif family homes than art and myself okay because I've got an answer to all the 3 five people that are buying villa homes from us yeah and that's why I'm taking a little time to make sure I get it right okay okay and uh we're off to a good start here Len do you want to give us a little more information while you're up there about what happened with the Ebenezer plan and why we're already were at another point because we didn't get any background on that in the ebener was in the process of picking out a selecting a new architect and when the new architect came what they did is they absolutely filled I mean from one from short as shining shore shore the site and I said we cannot have those the building that close to the outside lines of the street curb and sidewalks we've got to reduce the size of it and we've got to step the corners down this is exactly what Pete did mhm they weren't willing to do that I have nothing against or you know that's a great alternative and I pursued it but the scale of their build they needed a bigger building okay and they said they're going to you know nice sight they told me but they couldn't get their size of a building in there so that's why I I once again I cut that off because to me the most important thing is to get this thing to the right scale okay that that's that's what really mattered it's interesting because I I was just curious how many units are in that Zago in Still Water do you 40 yeah so why couldn't they do that it's not their building prod I thought it was Ebony's oh they manage it yeah and as I as I peel go ahead okay thank you come on up and explain that CU I was like wait they have a small one why okay yeah so that's a product that ebener manages but it's owned by a different company it was built by a different company the product line that Ebenezer wanted to move forward is called theor and that has large very very large units even larger than what Pete had proposed and so the building just crept up and up and up and we couldn't have that massive Behemoth okay against the Villas it fit okay I appreciate that we both went our way yeah five pounds of potatoes and you know it didn't thank you John you're up I think if Ethan's done yeah okay done I think we all know stand um I don't want to be redundant here um so early on in your presentation Mr Pratt you talked about the owners would sort of Drive what you're going to build so um so for example in if if Michelle scrimped and saved her pennies and and chose to build sort of a high in $900,000 Villa would the and I came in and said you know what I want to I can't afford to do what Michelle did I want to scale things back maybe not as high in finishes and stuff like that can somebody come in in a in a lower situation you know more of a $600,000 price point or is it going to all all be built out to that degree of finishes and there wouldn't be a $600,000 home there because with the time you add up all of the costs just to get things underway M but that doesn't mean that there isn't a range you know the range is probably going to sit I told you there's a $800,000 home in 21 Oaks in that Community the range when it's all done and said was about $200,000 you know from where it started to where it finished and that one sits right in the middle today and I'll say this about the costs of new construction this is another battle we've got you know I've seen the costs go up and yet I've had the buyers stay with it you know and I know there's a point in time where it gets to be too much but by and large I'm going to come back to your question sure about 200,000 around that median okay thank you and that's based on size and some of the specifications that go in them so is 900 probably the minimum so we're looking at 1.2 1.1 down to 800 yeah something like that yeah that's what we're imagining there you know and that's parallel to what I did at the Royal Club in Lake Elmo there you know that former 300M golf course there and if you could stay up for my next question is just um looked like with some of the elevation drawings are there going to be some that are slab in terms of the Villas and some Lookouts some walkouts there'll be some Lookout but there'll all be walk out or Lookout okay because of the topography there wait there were some SL I stand stand EXC excuse me um I apologize there are three on grade okay because of the grade and we're not you know we we offer those too and there are certain buyers now that want that sure sure um my next thing was about the uh elevation or height restriction at what point do we get in trouble with um our ladder truck not being adequate do you know that Matt I know our Chief's not here I would hate to build something we serve bwells so how is that based on croyale and bwells I'm I assume that the ladder truck's already built to reach all of those spots okay yeah good question though yeah about that what go ahead no no um Matt you seem fairly confident that our eyes are dotted and te's are crossed as much as they can be in terms of making sure that multi family gets built out as it's been proposed to us um I mean I don't want to put words in your mouth but this is but I'm going to put words in here I am yeah exactly yeah so council member John do um the only stipulation would be they are asking for the potential for a a wide range right obviously 30 Town Homes is different than the apartment complex that was shown mhm most of that is due to they're not exactly sure what they're is going in there so from that standpoint yes some form of multif family will be required to go in there due to having to meet density requirements okay what that will look like in the end we'll be back proposing it right and I'm giving you an understanding of what I'm expecting it to be because my clients are expecting that to be too um then my last thing is more um kind of just out there um I I grew up in this area I think I talked about it with you guys last time um I grew up going there as a young child to the Coler farm and getting getting vegetables out of the Little Shack that I think still sits there right now um I would love and and I don't want to put pressure on the The Andersons um but if there could be some sort of owed to the kers and the Andersons the recent stewards of that property and remember what the history is of it and and I I imagine Mrs ker little old woman giving us vegetables and what she would think of all this now and um I your presentation's been fantastic it really has been how about when Jo would give you 13 years of corn and she would P it was I have my way to save the barn save the windmill that's where the pump is there's a windmill that came out of that pump makes sense y yeah so but it's too expensive dang it but but any other ideas you want some maybe um Anderson path or Coler way or something like that I think thater would be a good thing we don't the Anderson don't need to do it we were just fortunate enough that we came in there afterwards and got and the only reason we got it we had to write a letter and it was just like we were the only ones that wanted to buy it and keep it as a farm unfortunately nobody probably heard you that's watching on TV but um that's okay Jan prefers it that way for it it begins by the name it's beay Haven and that's to honor Chan and Brad's horse farm and one of the street names is like a horse name right like a a type of horse that you the Coler is really great can you say what Jan said into the microphone the cers the cers homesteaded that the cers homesteaded that I think it's three generations so is there a reason like would you like to and this is probably a detail that's not necessary at this point but naming that street something different is is on the yeah Coler it'll be it it'll be do you like that I mean that's up to you guys so okay okay that's something we can work out later probably right but yeah it's easier to spell I think than that where the horse word is very it is I don't even know what it is and I'm all about once again what's the story here and I I want to honor it I'm barely I'm barely old enough to remember that stuff I was a young child but um no your your presentation's been great um you talk about your instincts and your Vibe and and I and I do have a a good vibe from you guys and I are hearing us and and taking this serious viously and um I appreciate all the work and and effort you've put into this and professionalism so thank you thank you than John yeah I this has been a long time we've had many conversations right um yeah and I do appreciate appreciate your your history of how long you've been doing this and your dedication to Quality all of that I think that's great and I think Jan wouldn't have chosen you if you weren't that kind of a her cuz I know she was very particular about that or so anyways it's there's still some unanswered questions that are making me still a little nervous I mean you've been trying to put us at ease which is your job right um I I guess I want to get a little bit more inut I don't know if it's from staff or what but like I one thing that concerns me is the County's right of way with the roundabout right cuz that would be huge if they had if they are uncompromising on that you're going to lose probably two I can't imagine one would do it but I would think you'd probably lose two of your sites right so I is a roundabout here it would be like here okay noral you do you have a picture of what they proposed yeah we no we just have I've just put a big circle on the map we're just trying to that's probably where it would be I because level of traffic does not seem to fit that size of no well and it's not because of this it's probably because we' got it on the screen either way oh there it is God that is wow oh so they gave you a look oh can you can you zoom in on it more so we can see what how it affects right I know we're trying to can you zoom in on it cuz I'm not sure I see where it's taking away your your side can you do it can you go to the microphone so the public who's watching this all happen I wish we could can you zoom in on it Dan are you trying okay thank you for some reason my cursor keeps disappearing every time I get to the no oh there we go there we go oh so you may not actually lose anything well maybe that I don't get it what's the pink thing that would be a trail so the blue line is the construction limit or propose right away right away yep oh so it does cut into one so You' lose one one out at least I mean you guys are understand that something needs to be done there right it it's going to be very challenging to leave it challeng it is to come to head like if you're heading east and you want to turn left it's very hard already okay we once again received this on Thursday yeah today is Monday y so this is kind of a game of whack-a-mole this this comes up after six months of the right Washington County looking at this now what we see here is more than likely somebody in a planning department not Washington County they have a consultant that they use hey don't be cutting on the Consultants right Dan yeah see the hour gets late and I'm going to get in trouble right get whack if you really want me to tell you what I think of this but that's 165 ft that roundabout that's as big a roundabout as you'll find anywhere they're probably trying to show you that this is how it the worst case scenario right yeah what somebody did is just took out a template from their file and dropped it right on here popped it there so we don't so tell me Len if they if this is what happens how would you feel about it if you lost one of the lots are you still interested in doing this this is this is where I come to work you know I I like I like to take an even Keel approach to things that's my my nature but if somebody comes along and does this at the last minute I'm going to find out what their justification for the width of that is I understand but I'm saying we need to make a decision tonight no I mean we would like to we may not be able to if we don't have an answer on that so I need to understand how you feel if this doesn't change mayor so we already had in the report that the rightaway dedication is subject to Washington County's approval they have statutory authority to review any plates to their Road and require right away so what we're going to have to do is have to have discussion as we did with ISD A3 before between City staff the developer and the county to resolve this matter cuz no one's had a chance to review or respond to it at this point yeah so if this does happen and lot one cannot be developed are you what happened what's your response to that I'm going to proceed one way or the other I'm GL and I can maybe I can address that so say that in the microphone that's the one thing I need important thing is this is the preliminary plat right so we have you know we we can bring back a final plat that is more or less consistent with this we're hoping that we don't have to make changes okay the truth is if you see this and can you see my my mouse here yeah this is all right of way so what they've done is just very inartfully slapped it down so they could this is all right they could shift this entire thing none of this RightWay is acquired none of this RightWay is acquired they've just slapped it on there okay and what what you also I don't see is that North further north here there's two very large chunks probably at least an acre each where they would take out all of the trees for a retaining wall and we just were not confident that this is truly representative of the needs you know I think to your point our study says we need a four-way stop sign that's all that is warranted by our project what they're doing and if you read their letter it is a possible uh roundabout in the future this is potential for the future so we're going to we're going to work with them we're going to work with your city staff we'll try to identify and rightsize this we're going to move forward under any circumstances but we're going to really try to rightsize it and ultimately um you know you're going to see something but this is more or less pie in the sky and is probably a 10 to 15 years so especially with the right of way to the I don't I don't know bottom left there like moving the whole thing over wouldn't necessarily uh impinge on any other homeowner's property rights right right right and you know and it's and part of this too is you know some of these Trails uh don't really lead to anywhere and again those are very long-term plans understand the point uh what they're trying to do is get our attention what we are just asking is that we have common understanding on this condition of approval which is we don't want the city to just carry all their water and give them a blank check we want to work with your staff to identify the actual needs we you're talking about County right you said City but yeah I'm sorry okay right right but we want to work with the city staff to identify how do these tie into your Trail plans right is this necessary um and we don't know and we just want to we want to study this better and that's what we're asking for it's a little bit of leeway we just don't want the city to back the countyy and give them a blank check if if we can all work together the right sizing we don't want a huge round about there no is that like the roundabout out by Walmart you know big one bigger that's just so that's that's what's shocking is the flow of traffic up by Walmart or whatever where they have that little roundabout is much higher than what is here that's what's kind of surprising to me okay so um i' also I would want to better understand how staff feels about their um idea to have for the multif family to be much taller than what we would require is that something you're uncomfortable with Dan's gonna speak for it mayor so yeah in response to their comment I mean you know they're they're correct that 35 ft would limit to flat roofs um what you need to balance the height against is what they showed in their architecture stepping it back so um there is a way to do this where it provides them some additional flexibility um I think the first thing to recognize is that we should be counting it above the enclosed parking because that's an amenity the city's going to want to have as part of this and let's start from that point um the first thing I would start out and say is the definition Building height in the zoning ordinance already is from average grade to guys Dan's talking average grade to a midpoint of a pitch roof exactly as they kind of described how it should be calculated most cities do it that way uh to recognize the value of the stepped roof um so that's already built in but I think if you modify the condition to say maximum Building height three stories or 35 ft above enclosed parking whichever is less unless a greater height is approved with a PUD development plan so that gives them the ability to come back with actual architecture Cal plans for what's going to be built there demonstrate how they're making the height consistent with the surrounding areas if it's over the 35 ft if they've stepped it back as they show in these representative drawings it will be most likely acceptable to the Planning Commission Council the intent of the Pud district is to give some flexibility where it's warranted consistent with the intent of the ordinance so I think that's an area where the the Planning Commission and Council can offer that okay is there something that like can we put in there that it needs to be stepped back like that because I don't want it to just be a big SC I know they don't really want that either but I I think if we say unless approved with a PUD development stage plan because then Planning Commission and Council reacting to the actual building plan and you're saying well this isn't a straight wall 35 ft up it's two stories and then it's step back so the streetcape view will be a two-story building and then they've so they're consistent with the intent of the 35t limit was by the time it all happens we could all be gone though correct and then it would be up to a future planning to evaluate that it's 35t at the discretion of the so it puts the burden on them to justify going higher with their architectural so if they come back with what they showed I think the feedback is yeah that's we would approve that but if it's a straight up and down you know maximum efficiency building it's likely not not going to pass mustard okay thank you um and you already commented that you think it if they are offering to do a a contingency on not giving out permits on the last 10 to 12 that that's something we should take them up on mayor so You' add a 33rd condition phase one shall be limed to 24 single family lots until such time as a PUD General development plan is approved for lot one block 5 could you writing those things on the Fly not just sitting here listening thank you okay um let's see what else I had um how many different styles of villa homes can people actually choose from is it only those listed that are in the packet cuz you mentioned like 16 Styles but then in the packet there's only like four so we tried to limit the package size yeah okay that's good I just want to clarify the intention probably in the neighborhood of 15 different designs okay good cuz I didn't want it to be every fourth house is yeah same so we're always coming up with something too okay yeah good to hear how are you feeling about um the recent tariffs and how that might change the cost of the building the the recent tariffs tariffs terrorists tariffs fromal government um well excuse me I know it's a very recent development but I feel like they could change a lot of things for you and every control only that I can what I can control but I'm just like I'm envisioning the 2008 thing happening and how all of a sudden inspiration wasn't building and yeah I've studied the lumber supply in our in America we're not quite quite frankly the reason of all the Imports coming in from Canada is that the United States is not cutting their forests and supplying them but the material I mean the lumber so maybe what this will do is encourage more of the timber timber cutting in our country I know a little bit about this but not enough to be an expert at all but it's going to be a combination of I think America starting to cut their forests in what I call in um a in a in in a process that enables the the forest to be even more healthy you know we saw in California as we give you an example where the underbrush kind of grows and the trees die and then what happens is the wild fire fires come through and there what you got to do is you got to clear trees now and then and uh do a a programmed approach to to tree and Timber and um anyway so you're not worried I'm not worried okay um I'm just looking at some of the notes I jotted down when I was reading the packet a lot of it has been covered but I just want I didn't miss anything um just to be clear on the the annexation portion we're going to have to have um a Cooperative agreement with Baytown about the street that is going to be called First Avenue North because of the fact that we don't own the all the land on the other side so it's a bit of a complication until right I mean is there any more clarification we need on that Eric or no that's one of the requirements is to get the Cooperative agreement yeah so that's part of the all the conditions of all of this too or what are you saying correct okay thank you all right um let's see so the trail um right now is being proposed on the south end heading east from I can't I don't have the names of the street that bay Haven that comes right off the stage coach and in okay and it's that's First Avenue North oh this is First Avenue North and Bay Haven must be the one that ends in a cu the ACT correct okay yeah First Avenue duh that would make sense okay so that the trail is going to kind of come off the end of that and then go over into that little part that is right now not anybody's land but it's going to be the oh wait no the the guy who owns the cell tower land is it his no it's a gap in the there is still a gap okay I thought that it it there actual property between what is okay and then descri we're suggesting that they extend that trail all the way past like the playground and hook up to the trail that gets to Upper from upper to lower barkers um so we we then are being asked by the the developer to give him a discount then on the park dedication fees um how would all of that be figured out so we have it written in the report currently that Park dedication would be a cash fee in R of land and that any reduction for the construction of that trail would be determined by the city council at final plat um so that we know what the construction cost of the trail is what the park dedication fee is and then can so we'd have more information at that point when we're at final plat so we can make a decision about do we want to do this and reduce our fees that we would be taking in or just let it be a grassy Trail like it is now correct okay thank you let me just whoops I shut my phone off when I need it on one last check to make sure that I didn't miss anything um we answered a lot of my questions already so that's good I would hope so after all these people went ahead of me um there was a note I guess in the SE memo number 16 that said something about the extension of water and sewer between first Avenue North between Bay Haven way and auto drive that only water was extended and not sewer what can someone help me understand oh John maybe you could talk now what is this a concern or what well it's a it's a mayor it's a recommended condition of approval so I'm not concerned but it was something that we raised in are recommending that it be a condition of okay and it's one of the conditions already I believe so okay that's there was a lot I read today and I can't remember what was in there okay all right um I think that's all the questions I have so does staff have any comments or anything that they'd like to add at this point now that you've heard all the feedback and answers and I know earlier I was feeling very um uncomfortable with moving forward because the multif family is so iffy still um you guys have done a good job of helping me feel a little better about that and I like the contingency idea that you presented so thank you for trying to put our minds at ease cuz you knew that we were nervous about it and I'm sure you want to get this done just like we we want to get it done right instead of bringing it all back again um so I don't know how everyone else is feeling but I'm I'm feeling a little better when I first got here I was not ready to approve any of these things to make these motions and agree to them so I know Ethan's on board everyone else feeling if if so we would start with a motion from the Planning Commission to we have two motions written up for us one does the annexation and another does uh amending of the comprehensive plan and I would I'll do the motion okay so you're going to start with just the first one I I move to adopt a resolution extending the corporate limits of Bayport to include the subject partials Parcels in the annexation petition from Bradley and Janet Anderson James and Christine Otto and Frank and Kathleen Thompson and an ordinance amending appendix B zoning section 10 of the Bayport city code of ordinances to record the annexation and the zone and Zone the properties upon annexation Sarah will you take oh wait do we have a second I second motion right so can I have like a point of procedure here so yes they're going to vote and on recommending approval or not of this motion to us and then we will do the same thing if if they think we should then we will then have a motion from our group in a second and a so you can just say I moved the same as you don't have to read the whole thing yes okay so we have a a a motion in a second from the Planning Commission so now we need the roll call vote Sarah commissioner sigy um what am I say yeah I read yes I don't know what you guys say we go I or n commissioner Oaks I I approve commissioner Kelly um I abstain um or recuse myself from voting because I work for the people who approve annexations so I can't participate okay so we still have had the majority so now it's on the city council's Side knowing that the Planning Commission is recommending um approving the annexation petition do we have a motion I move the same motion thank you Katie do we have a second I'll second thank you Ethan roll call Matt uh council member do say do yes do sorry I council member Gilmore I council member Hill I mayor Hansen I right you welcome to Bayport yeahoo First Step done all right step one and it was at first when I first saw the draft there were four motions and then I saw why are there only two and I was like what's going on and now I realized they got all merged into one so okay so same process motion number two if you guys would like to okay and mayor before we make the motion this would include amending conditions 12C 19 and 33 as discussed so at the end of reading the motion just State as amended okay okay Dan um actually for the record and so everyone knows maybe you could restate what those uh amendments are thank you 12C would read the maximum Building height allow is 3 stories or 35 ft above enclosed parking whichever is less unless a greater height is approved with a PUD General development plan addition 19 will be changed to the developer shall undertake a quiet title action to acquire the apparent property Gap North of Outlaw B inspiration third addition with a portion of the parcel being deeded to the city with the final plat of bay Haven or as soon as practically possible number 33 is added to state phase one shall be limited to 24 single family lots until such time as a PUD General development plan is approved for lot one block five and for members of the council um the wording of those three amendments I thought were just excellent I did not participate in the wording of any of those three and so I'm getting worried that maybe my job will be taken away from me I only wrote two right thank you Dan so um I'm going to say before I read this this motion that I came in here very very skeptical and you have convinced me I moved to adopt a resolution amending the comprehensive plan including or includ include the subject parcel to include the subject Parcels within the municipal urban service area guide for future low density residential land use and approve a r PUD General development plan and preliminary plat for Bay Haven at Bayport as amended do we have a second I second motion all right thank you Colleen or um Beth and Colleen Sarah will you please take the role commissioner Kelly I commissioner Oaks I commissioner sigfreed hi iol great how about City Council the Planning Commission has recommended it do you want to make a motion I'll make a motion to you can just say as red yeah okay prior thanks second all right Ethan and John awesome roll call map council member d i council member Gilmore I council member Hill I mayor Hansen I Tada all right now we need a motion to go home I moved to adjourn the meeting I suck all right what you guys all right I don't know why it's a joint meeting I think you okay so we got Katie and Ethan e