Good evening, uh, Madame Chairman, members of the board. Uh, my name is Tom Coleman. You may remember I was here two years ago for the same applicant for the proposed restaurant use, which you approved
in resolution 202407. I'm here this evening uh for MIH Coastal Holdings for uh 601 Second Street. Uh it is block 4801, lots 1, 2, 3, and four. It's located in the Marine Commercial
District. I have with me as witnesses this evening uh Miss Angela Marcus and Jeff Jeffrey Schneider, the principles of MIH Coastal Holdings. I have Mr. Robert Stout, our professional engineer, and I have Mr. Jim Miller, who was
recognized by this board two years ago as our planning professional. Uh, right now I have three exhibits um that I believe were circulated to the board. Exhibits A1, A2, and A3. That's an aerial mapping plan, an overall layout
plan, and a residential lot uh plan rendering. I reserve the right to uh uh perhaps add additional uh exhibits. Excuse me. Um I think it's important to
understand um just the history of how we got here uh to April 6th. So, we we filed this application in December on Christmas Eve of 2024 um for seven lots uh all conforming. Um
your your board engineer uh Frank Little um was kind enough to call my colleague Mr. Trone on January 30th and um express and tell us that we should be prepared for the February 2nd
meeting to address dry boat storage. Um Mr. Little also uh expressed that there were several members of the board did not mention who several members of the board that did not want the residential lots at at this site. Uh that was
somewhat concerning to hear. So we regrouped and redrrew the plans from seven lots to five lots all conforming. Um in fact one exceeds uh the the lot uh dimensions.
Uh we were prepared to come at the March meeting uh but I guess you had some technical difficulties at that time. Your capable counsel Mr. Russo was kind enough to call me and ask me how we wanted to proceed. So that that's why
we're here this evening. Um I I don't like to handle these applications unless I have a full outline of the testimony in front of me. So at the risk of of boring each of you and not missing anything, I'm going to
read my introduction uh verbatim. Um, so this application before the board this evening is that for the continued development of the Queen City Marina which is located at Second and Pennsylvania Avenues. As I mentioned,
um the uh marina currently uh includes uh the marina for with 137 boat slips, the rec recently renovated ship store uh which includes the market uh approved by the board in early 2022, the boat repair
facility, restrooms and parking uh as memorialized as I mentioned in 202407. This board uh previously approved the freestanding restaurant use on the property in in response to an initial review letter uh by Mr. Little. Um the
applicant revised the plans before the board and is now proposing to subdivide 27,000 square feet of the property uh to create five residential lots with all with uh Pennsylvania Avenue frontage. Four of the lots will measure
50 by 100, 5,000 square feet, and the fifth lot will measure 70 by 100, 7,000 square feet. Uh the residential uses are a permitted um use in the marine commercial district and your master plan
encourages and promotes single family residential dwellings uh on this property. Uh, additionally, uh, the lots, uh, area requirement, uh, in the, uh, MC zone is 5,000 square ft. And as I mentioned, each of these
lots either meets or exceeds, uh, that requirement. Uh, each uh, residential lot will also comply with bulk requirements um, and that there are no variances associated with this subdivision.
Three off- streetet parking spaces will be included. excluding the garage spaces. Um, additionally, revisions have been made to the plan that will address comments from the Beach Haven Fire Chief.
It's important to note that of the 27,000 square ft, only 7.63 63 uh% of the overall 353,775 total square feet is being disturbed of
this property for this application. This application is also seeking an amended preliminary and final site plan approval associated with the approved restaurant use um as memorialized in resolution 20247.
The amended uh site plan approval would recognize the reduction in the number of parking spaces shown on the site plan approved by the board for the restaurant from 160 parking spaces to 138. The 138
parking spaces will exceed the 86 parking spaces required by your local zoning code for the marina, the boat slips, ship store, and the approved restaurant. In addition, the marina's uh during the marina's off season,
notwithstanding that the boat slips are not in use, the 86 parking spaces will be maintained uh by the DP caffer required 109 dry boat slip spaces that are are being required that are being
provided, excuse me. As part of the board's approval uh for the restaurant use, a variance was granted for the property's 100% impervious coverage. Uh although the impervious coverage for the marina, which includes the boat slips, uh the ships through the boat repair
facility and the restaurant and parking will remain at 100%. The subdivision actually reduces the impervious coverage to 95.6%. as the impervious coverage for the five lots will not exceed 60% of the maximum
for the residential uses in the marine commercial district. Um, as I mentioned, I have uh two witnesses and perhaps three. Seso, do you want to swear everybody in at once or >> Sure. That that would be easiest to call if that's what's
>> whatever your call that You mentioned uh Mr. Co, your representatives. >> Okay. If the ob here, if you don't expect them to testify, we don't have to square them in. >> Uh just just to be safe or >> Okay. Yeah. >> You'll raise your right hand, please. Do
you swear the testimony give before the board this evening will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Thank you. that right here. >> Bob, good evening. Um Bob, could you please identify yourself for the board?
um your academic credentials, your professional credentials, uh whether you've uh been recognized by any other land use board in the state of New Jersey as an expert previously. >> I have. Uh good evening. My name is Robert Stout. I'm a licensed professional engineer and land surveyor
in the state of New Jersey. All my licenses are current. I have testified in front of, I would say, at least over 50 boards within the state of New Jersey. I've got a bachelor's degree in civil engineering from Spring Garden College in 1985 and I've been licensed
since 1993. Uh I was the managing member of Stalin Carwell Engineers for 20 years. In the last two years I am the senior director of civil engineering in PSNS engineering in Cherry Hill, New Jersey and I have testified in front of many boards and done similar projects to
this throughout the state. >> I'd ask that Mr. Stout be recognized as a professional engineer. >> Madam Chair, >> I recognize him. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Coleman. If you're going to some oftentimes our witnesses testify here
and I think that microphone pulls off >> just so we can hear both of you. >> Okay. Thanks, sir. >> Okay. >> If you want to, you can take it and sit. You can pull it off and sit there if you'd like. >> That's easier for you.
>> Don't usually get to say that. Uh Bob, what's your relationship to this specific application? >> I am a design engineer for the project. >> Okay. And and can you explain to the board what actions D the department of
environmental protection has taken with respect to this application? >> Sure. The project was originally granted a CAP permit and a flood hazard permit back in 2018 for the restaurant continued use. And in 2023,
there was an 8 unit twin town home on this exact same location that also received a CARE permit for that. And we we've currently have one in the state right now for review for this application. >> Okay. and and can you provide the board
with uh a description of the property and the location? Perhaps you maybe want to use exhibit A1. Let me do this. Set these up somewhere that's visible. >> As long as it's visible to that camera,
if you can put it in a way I'll try to zoom in on Can you see yourself down there in the bottom corner? There you go. >> Yeah. >> I need to move them up. I can. Is that visible for the
>> sort of Okay, all set. Okay. So, we have walk you through a couple of exhibits. As Mr. Coleman said, we have three or four exhibits to discuss. Basically, this is an aerial. I believe
it's a 2018 approximately aerial of the site. Really, just to show you what the surroundings area is. This is the Green City Marina in the center of the property. the leg uh bay to the left to the south of this is second street which
is Burden Betty and some newer residential property sits on Pennsylvania Avenue as well. The Marlin and Tuna Club is to the north and directly across the street on Pennsylvania is two residential existing dwellings. Again, this is the residential district. The outline here
is the marine commercial district. So, >> so Bob, using exhibit A1, C, can you discuss the proposed subdivision and how the subdivision would impact the prior approval gained through resolution
202407? >> Actually, what I'll do is I'll do this to exhibit A2. >> Okay, >> this is A2. Um, this is exhibit A2. This is a colorized rendering of the subdivision plan you have in your package. So,
there's two parts to this. First part is the amended site plan as part of the previous application that Mr. Coleman discussed was the replacement of Morrison's uh restaurant that was disturbed in fire in 2005. That is shown
here down into the lower leftand corner. The site plan itself does not change. There's no changes that we're proposing to this other than what we are doing is carving out 27,000 square feet for the five residential dwellings that are proposed for the site itself.
Uh the site plan for the amended site plan itself nothing has changed. This lighting is the same. The orientation the trash enclosures the lighting all existing. The parking is exactly the same. The only change that we are making for this as part of Mr. Little's letter
is that we're required to put the EV spaces which are now current to the state. So we've added uh additional seven EV spaces along the space adjacent to the uh proposed restaurant itself. Uh does not change the parking numbers at
all. Everything still stays within the required numbers for that. So >> Mr. Coleman if I may, Mr. Stout, correct me if I'm wrong. the EV spaces, one EV space and six make ready if I understand. >> That is that is correct. Yeah, the requirement is one will be put in as
part of the application or part of the construction. The other four the other six are >> okay. I just want to make sure my understanding is correct. Thank you. >> Correct. >> Bob, I know that Mr. Miller will address the specifics of the planning testimony, but from the plan using exhibit A2 or
even exhibit A1, are there any bulk or C variances associated with this application? There are not. Everything is conforming to the code. >> And how about the impervious coverage as it relates to this property? >> As Mr. Coleman had stated, the impervious coverage in the overall site
currently is 100%. So by carving this piece out, we're saving about 4% of the overall site. The area you see in green is 40% which is your code requirement for the green orius. That all is there existing. Also, the
other plus to this from a storm water management standpoint, not only are we reducing the amount of impervious, the brown areas, which are the square footages of the units or the houses themselves under the D regulations, those are clean water. So, by increasing the rooftops
and increasing the green space, we're actually improving the water quality in here. And that's something again that CAFRA would revise and review as well. So, that would be part of that. Uh Bob, I mentioned in my initial uh introductory remarks uh the the um the
reduction in the lots from seven to five and and what we did with those five lots as it relates to buffering. I I know Frank has some comments uh as it related to buffering. So how how about buffering and and uh is there buffering in the
rear of these properties? Um, and if not, um, can you address why there's no rear buffering? >> Sure. So, what I'll do is let's go to A3. A3 is the exact same thing you just saw. It's just blown up a little bit bigger
so everybody can see it a little bit better. Uh, so as part of your requirement and part of Mr. levels letter. One of the issues is buffering between dissimilar uses. So in order to accommodate that, we have adjusted these five lots and created a landscape buffer
along the Marlin and Tuna Club and a landscape buffer to the south basin to the store, shift store and the garage that are currently there. Uh so one of the issues that we do have obviously this has the CAFA requirement. There is
a requirement from Kappa to have a 100 foot water dependent use from the face of the bulkhead 100t in and one of the requirements for that is that they cannot have any buffering directly behind these units any kind of landscaping behind the unit. So what we
have here is an open use. There's about 20 foot from the back of the houses in that is the water dependent use for a unit such as keeping boat storage or or kayaks or water dependent uses along that and that would be in the lower level of these units themselves, the
buildings themselves. So obviously you're familiar with how these construction goes. First finish floor on this will be a foot above the flood elevation. So these would be raised up as well. >> So quick question. You won't be able to put a pool or a deck or anything in the
rear yard of these units because it's not considered water dependent. >> Just on the lower level. >> When you say lower level, they put a pool on the lower level. >> I don't know that. We do have uh our caffer expert here and I can check on that and get back to you.
>> I'm just curious because once you create these backyards as water dependent uses, I don't think a pool or outside deck is considered water dependent. I just wanted to clear that up because I didn't know if these were going to be deed restricted at some point. So, if you give me one second, I'll right now
there's no pools are proposed for the backyard. I was just curious, >> excuse me, >> yes, it doesn't mean that in the future when whoever buys the lot and builds a house doesn't try to put a pool in. So, we got to know whether it's allowed or
not allowed. Um well um Madame Chair uh that that issue uh is an issue for the Department of Environmental Protection and when they um finally decide this plan if they require a deed restriction for those
backyards before these lots are sold. I think that will address whether someone can put a pool in there or not. >> Actually, >> thank you. >> Um I speaking with our CAFER expert as well. That was the original uh including for that. We were going to use that rear
of that, but apparently, and I apologize for the the mixup here, uh we're able to switch out the water dependent uses behind these and create it into the open area there. So, we're basically giving the DP the exact same area that is
there, but switching it between the two sections. So, there will no longer be a need for a deed restriction. They put the pool in. If there's no water dependent use, >> Frank, would you mind leaning forward to your microphone? Thank you. >> So now, if there's no water dependent use on the properties, can you install a
buffer? >> Yeah, Mike's questions. >> I'm sorry. We need to swear in. >> Yeah, Mr. Mr. Lucy. Oh, here. Sure. Raise
your right hand, please. Do you swear permanent testimony and guilt before this board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Mr. Cole, you want to introduce this witness? >> Yeah, Mike, just stay right there. Um, Mr. Lucy, um, could you uh tell the board who who you are and uh, describe
your credentials uh, to serve or to uh, provide testimony this evening? >> My name is Michael Lucy. I'm the owner of Waters Edge Environmental. It's an environmental consulting firm. I'm a professional wetland scientist. I've been in um preparing and submitting D
and federal applications for the past 30 years up and down the coast of New Jersey. >> Mike, have you ever testified before a land use board New Jersey before? >> Yes, in several uh North Wildwood, Egar Township, Ocean City.
>> Uh Madam Chair, I'd ask that this be recognized. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, Mike, you heard the the questioning back and forth by Mr. Little with Mr. Stout. Can you provide some guidance on on what can and can't be planted back there? The state of New
Jersey is allowing us to do whatever we want to in that last in that portion of the residential lots. And that portion that used to be water dependent has now moved to the I guess it would be the uh
south to expand beyond the 100 ft that the D requires. So we're we're giving up uh 10,400 square ft plus or minus of area beyond 100 ft in order to allow the homeowners
to do what they like in that area. So, one of the comments in my review letter and one of the comments that was provided in the application was that you can't install a buffer because caffer won't permit it in a water dependent use. So, you put the buffer in the rear yard.
>> That was correct prior to this change. So, you could put something some sort of vegetation back there. >> Okay. >> So, Mr. Cohen, if we can try to clarify this. I I I think I can clarify with the new information because this is
no longer water dependent. We would be able to put the buffering on the residential portions along the rear >> and that will be agreed to Mr. Coleman as a condition of approval. >> Absolutely. >> For every for each of the five lots that we buffer >> for each of the five lots. >> Okay. >> Yes.
>> The buffers on the >> the rear propert. So now that that goes into the parking lot >> now the residential it'll be in the residential properties. It'll be in the 50 by 100 right lot. >> Correct. >> All of them including the 70 by 100 as well.
>> So it be in their property. >> This red line would be to the right side. And Bob Bob could you show where the where the proposed um I guess north and south buffer buffering is now >> north buffer it's along Marlin tuna
south buffer would be along where the towards second street and then the rear buffer would be along the backs of the existing proposed properties within this within the section you see now >> and Mr. Cole and Mr. out. I assume
revised plan showing that rear buffer will be provided to the board of Mr. Little for his approval. We can definitely work. Very good. Give you a little from the u the 27,000 square feet that's being carved out from the overall
property. How does that impact um right now that property I believe is used being used for parking and dry boat storage. H how does that impact that dry boat storage and and parking moving forward if this uh application is approved?
>> So in order to accommodate the requirements for the D for the boat storage 109 boat storage we're able to relocate the boats that are currently in this area to around this. So, what I'll do is give you a fourth exhibit.
Mark, this is A4. A4 is a copy of the sheet two of the waterfront development plan that was submitted as part of the application. So as part of the capture of requirements, they require 109 boat stoages to be placed within the site itself. So what
you see here is an outline of the required sizes, the required storage areas for the boats. So, what we've done is created an area between the garage and the residential and the buffer along the back lines of the residential homes
along the north side back along that small finger in that section there while still maintaining the 86 parking spaces required for the restaurant, for the garage, for the shift store, even though we will not be using any of the slips
which is a requirement for this. So we're actually almost doubling what the required parking is for that time. >> So at the end of the day we'll have 138 parking spaces. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> On peak season. >> On peak season. So the ne next question is how how about offseason? How how does
that with the dry boat storage that you just referenced there? How is the is there any change the marina off season? >> Offseason as we just discussed is that we still have 86 parking spaces which is your requirement for everything. So even if the marina was operating, all the
facilities were operating, we still have 86 parking spaces, although the 47 I believe it is needed for the slips are not being used. >> Okay. What other Bob what other changes to the plan um to the marina uses are
proposed? Uh the only other change to the marina use is we go back to A3 the blow up. Currently the rest the restrooms sit in the center right about in this location in there. Uh these are antiquated. That's an old brick building
down low. Uh so in order to bring them up to more modern facilities, we're going to be utilizing a mobile restroom facility similar to what you have on Chowderfest and stuff like that. uh in that section. So those will be able to be removed when it's not being used in winter and this will be able to be
relocated into the season in this section. So and they they will be connected to sewer and water. So can you show us where that hanger like building airplane hanger like building is and is it not noted on that
drawing and I have a question isn't you know part of a plan like this to include existing structures. >> Yes. >> This is the uh I call it the hanger like the one that has the big mural on the outside. Yeah.
>> Yep. Queen City. That's it right here. >> So this is the ship store at the corner of Second Pennsylvania. Oh, I see. Okay. >> Directly behind that is the It says uh sixtory garage 40 foot. That's the garage that you currently see. >> I missed that corner. Okay.
>> Is the proposed restaurant which is not built? >> I have a question. >> Hello. Uh two questions. Why aren't the first question is why aren't all the lots 50
by 100? Why is 170 by 100? the owner want that lot for themselves. I mean, if they're going to be selling these lots or building houses, uh, I mean, I would think you'd save 20 ft right there. Um, do you know why that happened?
>> That was just a request of the owner. Wanted one one of the lots to be a little larger. >> Okay. Uh, number two, the bathroom. How are these things attached to the ground? What if we had a storm and a flood? Would
they come in and turn over? I mean, are they and you have raw sewage. What happens with that? >> Well, first off, the connection would be a hard connection which would be able to be disconnected easily. Uh water and sewer. And as far as the structural
ability of that, I don't have any design on that. That is uh something that the manufacturer would be able to provide us with. So that would be something that would have to meet current codes. So, >> and the reason we don't build a hard one is because of the caffer rules that it
have to be up too high >> for flood level. Yes. >> Okay. The other question, just looking at this, why didn't they take the lot that's next
to the Marlin Tuna and put it down next to the one at the other end so you'd have a complete Uturn to get in and out of that marina rather than being having a dead end into the Marlin Tuna. Wouldn't that if you
took that lot and just put it the other end, then you can drive in and out of that marina without having to back up, turn around, and do every other thing. Is there a reason? >> On our original design,
I'm sorry. On our original design on this, we actually had eight lots because there there would be a room on here. >> I was aware. >> Eight lots >> from one side to the other. So, that was our first thing. We pulled that back to give us some additional buffering here. There are still two points of access onto the site uh where the proposed uh
restaurant is. There's one on that location and there's one straight across directly behind the ship store. So, there is already two locations for these. This section up in here that you're saying, you know, there should be another exit. There's nothing in there currently that is utilized. This is pretty much all the storage areas right
now. >> But don't they use that other the north end at all? I mean, boats have to get in there, don't they? >> Somebody just moved >> thing on me. >> Um, somebody I mean, if you come in uh on
Pennsylvania, you take a right, you go all the way down to the to the end where the Marlin Tuna is, then you take a left. They're all boats parked there, but you can drive a vehicle there. >> You can drive a vehicle through here. Yes. How about the left turn when you
get to the end? >> Yeah, this turn. Yes, you can make a left turn on a vehicle here. >> And there's enough room to turn around and go out. >> Well, you would have in this instance. Yes, you'd come down here, do a K turn, and come back out if you're if you're using a vehicle. That's what this
striped area is for. >> All right. I just am I'm not big on the bathroom being mobile. I mean, it's such a nice marina. I don't understand why we need a mobile bathroom. I mean, I know the yacht club has a
bathroom that's raised up and it's permanent. If why couldn't they build a permanent bathroom there? I know that it would have to be handicap accessible and I've heard the thing would be longer, but I just worry about storms and flooding and the thing breaking and
thinking somebody if if a hurricane's coming through town, they're going to take time to run over to the there and disconnect everything. I think that's wishful thinking. But that's all. >> Have a question about the garage. Right now that garage is used for weddings,
right? In events. Is that still going to be used for that? That would be an operational question. >> Yes, >> she's been sworn. Angela, can you tell us what your
relation to the application is? >> My name is Angela Marcus. I'm co-owner of Queen City Marina, the applicant. >> Um, Angela, the the the board member's question uh as it relates to the aircraft or the the hanger, what is that
used for? >> So, the boat shop is primarily used for boat service. when it's not being used for boat service, we do repurpose it for events. So now in the offse, there's boat repairs
being conducted there. Uh so it's a multi-purpose building. >> So are there parking requirements if there's a wedding there? What Eric? How does that work as far as parking? If they use it for events, weddings. >> Why are we talking about that? That's
okay. >> As as Mr. Stout said, there's sufficient parking provided. There's there's 50ome spots in excess of what we're obligated to provide. >> That's based upon the restaurants and
the store, isn't it? And the marina itself. >> That's if they're all built. >> I don't think it takes into account what you're saying. >> Yeah. Oh, >> is there >> guys? Would you mind bending your microphones down and trying to get into your
>> mic? Is there a requirement if they're using that for something other than garage storage? Is there a requirement for parking? Like they're using it as a restaurant sometimes. >> So, >> not all the time, but at certain points they're using it. I don't know. Is there
is there a parking requirement for that? >> We have an ordinance for parking for commercial that's I believe one space per 600 square ft. Correct. >> It's not based on the number of people that show up and I believe they've accounted for that parking in the square
footage of the overall complex. >> I I don't recall if weddings were a pri if that was ever mentioned in a prior approval that they were holding weddings. I mean that's the first time I'm hearing about it. Um >> ultimately the building is one space per
600 square ft of gross floor area for parking. So, with the number of spaces they have on site during the season, it would appear they have more than sufficient parking if a wedding occurs. If a wedding occurs while there's boat storage,
they're not using any of the other spaces. So, I would assume I don't know what the season is. In other words, when do you actually pull boats and stop weddings? >> Frank, I don't >> So, we don't have >> I don't see the calculation for the How many square feet is the garage?
I don't see that. I see a restaurant use, which is the restaurant, >> okay, >> that they may build. I see the marina use. I see the ship store deli. And I see public access. I don't see calculation for the garage. >> Okay. >> Unless I >> Well, let's have the applicant respond to that.
>> So, so Angel, the the the garage that's being described at H is that used for slip owners on a selective basis? Is that open to the public? How how how does that work? >> It's primarily used for slipholders, but
sometimes it is open to the public. We have an additional 60% of parking spaces that are required by the Beach Haven code. So, we've never had a problem with the number of parking spaces. And I imagine that if that
square footage were factored in, uh if it isn't already, that we would have sufficient parking. And just to piggyback on to that, the square footage of that garage is approximately 5,000 square feet approximately. So if we use
the the number one per 600, that's nine spaces required. Currently, we have 52 spaces in excess of what your code requirement is. And even in the winter, you talk about the off peak, we're not using the marina, there's another 47. So
there's more than ample any time of the year for that use. If the code were on a a per seat basis, I I I could potentially see an issue about parking, but for every 600 square f feet, we have well in excess of what's required.
>> There any addition additional questions for Miss Mark? >> Yeah, I have a question on that. Are you saying in other words the spaces are based on x amount of square foot and it doesn't matter what other structures you add to the property you know whether
it's restaurants delies an additional wedding place it's still totally based on six by code >> yes that's correct >> okay I don't know the codes but doesn't seems a little illogical but I don't
know so >> and Angela, while you're here from an operational standpoint, I believe the chairwoman had some concerns about the bathroom. Could you address those concerns? >> Yeah. So, the current bath house is has aging plumbing. We consistently have
issues with drainage um and they become inaccessible to our customers during the season due to the sand that goes through the crushed pipes underneath. Our proposal to put in mobile bathrooms solves a few different problems. One, in
the event of a storm, I understand that's a concern. If the bathrooms are mobile, they can be disconnected and moved, including moved off the island. So, we consider that to be an improvement on the current condition. Uh, in addition, they can be handicap
accessible. Um and in and in addition to that, they can be accessible relatively quickly if we have an issue with our existing plumbing. Uh regardless of whether we we move forward with the residential development, we will need to
demolish the current bathrooms um and put in new bathrooms. And we're proposing to put in mobile bathrooms because they offer a a better solution to our customers. and in the event of a storm. >> Thank you. >> Thank Thank you, Angela.
>> Thank you. Question for I have a question for Angela. >> Um, you have 109 storage slips and 106 of them are listed as 26 ft. Are you now limiting boats to
26 feet in the future if 106 storage spaces are only for 26 feet in length? The size of the boats and the number of the boat slips is a caffer requirement. The size of our boats that we store is variable year per year depending on
demand, the customers that come in for boat storage. Uh the average boat storage that we've had over the past few years is under 100. So it it varies from year to year. Even though we are required to have 109 boat slips, it
doesn't mean that we have 109 willing and able customers that will store their boats with us. And it also doesn't mean they will have large boats. So the mix of boats, even though a number of those slips are designated as smaller slips, uh there will be a mix of that and
probably averaged out to fit the size of the boats that we're storing, right? Because a lot of your slips are for larger size boats. I mean, this marina is the only marina that holds large boats in Beach Haven. So my concern was
that you were limiting only to 26 ft in length because your storage is for only 26 ft in length >> and and that's not the case. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I have a question. Um are I believe you guys have a Freedom Boat Club or
something working out of the marina as well? >> We do. >> Is that going to continue? >> We have a multi-year contract with them. Uh they have five boat slips with us. uh they do not store their boats with us. Uh their boats are between
20 and 25 feet. Um they remove their their boats at the end of the season and they store them at another marina. >> Okay. So Mr. V, I have a question. If there's another business operation working out there, does that need to be reflected in these plans and and drawings and all of that as well?
>> Not these plans. This is an application for a subdivision. Yeah. So we just have so within this the 86 the fact that there's another business with people coming bringing cars to rent boats uh is not included in the well the
parking for the boat slips is counted in the parking number. So even though there's five slips those are slips that exist in the marina and parking is provided for those based on the calculation. >> Understand? And I've fished out of this marina on various size boats and I can't
tell you when everyone came in one car. >> No, I got you. I understand. >> It's a pontoon rental boat. It's It's >> Are there any other businesses operating out of there to Jamie's point? >> There are a handful of commercial boats
that operate out of there. Um, and I understand that all of those boats have mercantile licenses with the town and their their boat parking has been factored in. I don't know if it's factored into these numbers, >> um, but it's roughly the same number of
>> of boat slips that are required if if not a few more. >> I have a question. I don't know if it's for you, Miss Marcus, or for you, Mr. Stout. Um the boat lift itself that has to be operational year round. >> Yes.
>> Okay. Well, you talked about taking all the boats that are currently stored where the residences are going to be. Would that would you be able because I'm I'm looking at where the lift is and I'm looking at where you pointed the vessel storage and I'm just wondering how you're going to be able to use that.
>> Well, we don't operate it in the winter months. Uh once all the boats are stored on land, we don't operate it. still operational. In fact, we recently invested in the past two years in a boat lift that turns on a dime. Um, we spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on a
new boat lift um because of the aging boat lift that we had before. So, we factored in the turning radius that that boat lift needs in these plants and it would accommodate boats stored there. I mean, like with Sandy, most boats were out of the water when that hit and then
all of a sudden people were trying to get their boats out. I'm just curious because of the way it's portrayed. >> Well, we would be able to I'm not a marine service expert, but that's why I said, >> but but we would be able to >> to get the boats to the boat lift to be able to bring them in and out of the
water as we would on a normal for our normal operations, launching or or hauling. >> Right. It's just you've never had boats stored there before. That's why I was pleased. >> We do have both stored along the bulkhead currently >> way in the back.
>> And I can add it here. This is the concrete ramp. That is the concrete ramp that is there. There's two that are in that end of that. So, these could be relocated. We still have area back in here that we did not use. We could relocate them if needed, but this still gives you plenty of room into that
section. >> Thank you. One of Frank's comments was, "No areas are designated as employee parking. Testimony shall be provided as to the location." Did we get that information? Again,
there's no specific requirement for an employee section. So, what we've done is have more than adequate parking throughout the site. So, more than likely when if the restaurant's open, they'll be directed farther away so patrons can use that. >> Yeah. One more question. I believe you
guys were selling parking spots down here in the evening or parking access. >> Yes. >> That going to continue >> if we have extra parking? Yes. Okay. >> And we did have plenty of extra parking the last season.
>> Part of the reason why we were doing it was because we had to provide for security at our gates during the peak hours when the restaurants and bars in the nearby area were active. So, since we had to pay for a uh security at the
gate, if if folks who were not patrons of our marina wanted to park there, we we allowed them to park there for a fee >> at the peaks in the evening. It's like at night. >> At night, >> peak time. Peak traffic down there. Yes. >> Okay. I think so, too.
>> Thank you. >> Bob, if we could continue with you. Um and anything further on electric vehicle spaces? >> No, we we've talked about that. >> Okay. How about trash? How's trash being removed from the site? >> Trash is done throughout the site.
They're mobile cans. So, these are picked up and maintained on a regular basis. The restaurant has an internal roll out for theirs. So, that's all internal. Everything else can be cleaned up on a daily and a regular basis. any any changes Bob from the prior approval
as it relates to lighting? >> No. >> Okay. Storm water management. >> We basically talked about that. The main plus with that is the existing marina. Go back to the existing marina itself is 100%
impervious. Uh the new section will lower that by 40% within that area plus the improvements to the rooftops which are clean water based on the New Jersey D. So we're actually reducing the amount of water runoff for the site. Good. >> Uh Mr. Little had a a a comment about
sewer and water to the site. Um how how will that be addressed for the the by blocks? >> Everything will be pulled off of Pennsylvania Avenue as part of the intru here. we will be putting on the curb and sidewalk along with the driveways that we're requiring for the three parking
spaces, off-site parking spaces that are required for the ordinance. >> We we learned um earlier this evening that Mr. Lucy has revised the D plans, the caffer plans. Um what revisions were made to address u not only Mr. Little's
concern but more importantly the fire chief? >> Sure. As part of the assignment of the boats, what we've done is you have two points of access, the prior safety if the restaurant is operational
and the two shift store and the garage. This is all has full access around this section. What we've done is given a 20 foot aisle from Second Street coming directly up full out. So if they have to fight a fire for some reason, they could
bolt into this section if it was something along this area and then they would have the section through here. So full movement, full access to the boat storage in the marinas itself. >> Can can you provide a uh a turning area,
Bob? >> Uh I cannot. There's currently not a turning area on here and we can't facilitate that. I mean it's basically the same as every dead end street every street that do is into the uh ocean or the bay you there's no turnaround so they would have to back up for that
>> but but you have provided a 20 foot drive aisle in the rear of these properties >> we have so it's usually a standard is 15 ft wide with the outriggers in 20t is the largest that we've ever come across so we've given a full 20 foot access along the two movements
>> Bob anything further that you'd like to offer this evening No, I think that's uh pretty much everything. >> I have I have a question, couple of questions on the fire axis. I actually done some looking into it also on the um the NFPA 303 and 50 uh IFC codes. The
one is it talks about having 150 maximum deadend length unless there's a turnaround. Is it are you able I guess as a designers to get around that there it'll it's allowable. >> It it is not. We cannot provide a
turnaround. >> Yeah, but I'm saying the way I the code itself talks about that it has to be 150 foot maximum dead end >> or is that not part of the code? I'm doing it from an AI analysis of the code. >> So
>> this is P this is greater than 150 ft through here. >> Correct. >> Yeah. So I'm questioning is it code compliant without a turnaround? I I don't think we understand the question. >> Um the code the code talks about 150
foot maximum dead end length unless there's a turnaround provided. In other words, it it's the way it's written. They don't want you backing out of anything longer than >> And which code are you referring to, sir?
um on the NFPA 303. >> Again, I'm asking the question. I'm I I'm an engineer, but I've just done the AI research kind of outlined what the requirements were. >> Yeah. >> So, that would be one. I had a couple of
questions regarding the firefighting. Um that was one of them. The next is there any additional hydrants on site? Any additional hydrants all that are put on site? >> There there's no additional hydrants proposed. The closest hydrant is right
at the intersection of third and Pennsylvania. >> There's a >> Yep. >> Yeah. I'm aware >> there's a hydrant right across the street from property. >> Yeah. Again, from the way the way it's interpreted by the code, it talks about a 400 foot maximum distance from the
closest fire hydrant and it's measured along the um fire egress travel lane. So, we'd be way over that unless there was additional hydrants put on site. Again, I'm asking a question, so, you
know, I'm not a designer, so Um so um you you sir do do you recognize that there is a that there's a fire hydrant less than 50 ft from the proposed subdivision? >> I'm talking about the firefighting
for the for the boat storage. >> For the boat storage. >> Correct. Yeah. If there was >> first off, if there was a fire in one of the units, I believe they're drained from fluids for the winter. Um, they
would be able to run any kind of hosing to that if needed. And there's nothing out there. Most of these are all fiberglass, most of them, but there is potential for that. But again, that would have access if needed. >> Yeah, correct. What again what I
researched was the requirements for firefighting dryboat slips during the winter um based on NFPA 303 and the IFC. These are the requirements I came up with again I'm asking you guys as the designers to um
you know to verify it. So >> when we design a site, basically what we do is we design it per the code municipal code and there there's nothing in there for this particular section on the code
>> but for the for the dry boat storage >> for for the act the winter storage of the boats is where I did the research. >> So anyway, that's sort of two questions, >> right? Mr. Winger, and for the benefit of of
the public, >> let me say this. This is an application for a subdivision approval for five lots, five residential lots that are fully conforming and amended site plan approval. The prior approval's already been granted for the arena and the
storage. That's not for us. I'm sure Mr. opponent would agree that whatever development is there will apply with all outside agency approvals and all codes including the fire code and if there is an enforcement issue
I'm sure that our fire department would bring it to the attention of Mr. Coleman's client and that would be dealt with accordingly. Yes, >> that's correct, Mr. Russo. >> Okay. Again, I was asking the questions because just looking at it I it just came up a lot like that. I don't know if
>> it's a good question, Mr. But it's it's not directly on point with respect to the application that's before the board this evening. >> Well, but but rest assured if the fire department has issues that for whatever reason any part of this development of
this project is violating any provision of the fire code that will be brought to the applicant owner's attention and dealt with accordingly. >> Okay. So I was just bringing up again like I said some independent the another one which Eric I think might affect the
residential locations is again the same code talks about a 10 to 20 foot separation from property lines where you do boat storage. Now would would that become a problem with those boats that are all stored
immediately west? >> The look a couple of things here. the boat storage requirement is a caffer requirement that we're we're trying to address and the the site does have two site accesses from Pennsylvania Avenue. Now the other issue too is
>> now with this plan you actually have a plan that shows where the boats can and cannot go because today there's no requirement that says we can't put boats throughout the site and not give you access. This will actually give us an access dedicated access through the
site. So that makes it a much safer option than what is currently available. >> Okay. Again, I'm I looked at it as a whole, including the boat storage and lots and all that because I I read everything that came around and different letters that are part of the
application, all that. So, I just did a little independent research. >> Okay. >> So, um so I mean I guess Eric, let me ask you the question. Is is is the boat storage part of this? Would you want to hear any other things that I just
noticed independently or it shouldn't be brought on the table? >> Well, the the the boat storage and the location of the boat storage, I believe, has been addressed by the applicant through the testimony of Mr. Stout so far. That's where the boats are going to
be. It's marked out on the plans. >> Okay. So, from an engineering standpoint, I don't think Mr. Little has an issue. if he does, it'll come up when he testifies or and it hasn't been addressed already. >> Well, let me just say one thing. I mean, this is also, I believe, an amended site
plan, correct? >> So, the boat storage is part of the amended site plan, and if there's any kind of fire issue, it has to be addressed, >> right? >> Okay. So, it's got to still be reviewed. Okay. So, yeah, because I I thought like the lots,
okay, with the boats and lots to me was kind of a conflict, but um So I I guess again I guess so as far as the boat storage then we shouldn't you you don't want to hear any further concerns on it
that I happen to notice on it or no? >> Well Mr. You can ask whatever questions you want. The applicant will do the best they can to address those questions or concerns. >> Okay. So, so the 400 ft was the one the 10 to 20 the other on the boats that are all
stored south of it. Again, they talk about having like uh I'm just looking at the the AI stuff 10 to or 8 to 12 foot spacing between boat rows so you don't create I guess for
fire hose access they refer to it and then for um to prevent the spread of fires in case there was a fire. So >> is that a qu question or an observation? Uh it's again this is all stuff when I
just ask questions like summary of firefighting access for dry boat slip. So I kind of looked into the whole thing just to see if if everything made sense because I you know I saw it was quite involved. So I actually just did this literally on um yesterday morning. So
um so and is just that's all it is and I'd be you know happy you know to share any of the stuff. So, >> thank you. >> Um, >> I guess that's the main thing. It's um those items.
>> Any further questions for Mr. Stout? If if you were to put a permanent bathroom in instead of the mobile one, would you still have space for your 109 dry dock boats or or are you using that or or is that the purpose of the mobile bathroom? So
you move it out of the way so you can store the boat. It would be moved out of the way. Again, there is some additional area that we could use it if we needed to do that. But again, the plus with the mobile bathroom, as uh Angela had said, is is basically it solves a lot of the
problems. It gets rid of the antiquated bathrooms that are there. Plus, it can be updated every couple of years, so you don't have to use the same bathrooms every couple years. We can keep up with current codes and current technologies as well.
>> So, Bob, the the the boat storage um is an accessory use, >> correct? >> All right. And and this is an attempt through this site plan to clean up the boat storage to make it uniform to make it um uh to perhaps address the concerns
of the prior uh chief. >> That's best we've done. Yes. >> Correct. >> Any other questions for Mr. Stout before I have our planner come up? >> I'm here anyway. So if if there's a question about traffic assessment, is that for Mr. Stout or is that for
somebody else? >> Be someone else? >> Sure. Swear our friend the testimony get before the board this evening for the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth >> and your name for the record please. >> David Shropshshire h I
>> good to see you Mr. Yeah, >> Dave, I I know your credentials, but perhaps the board members of the board don't. Can Can you tell the board who you are and and um your why you're qualified to provide the testimony this
evening? >> Uh I have a professional engineering, professional planning license in the state of New Jersey, both active. Uh I have uh appeared before over 200 municipalities throughout the state of New Jersey offering expertise in traffic
engineering and transportation planning. I have been here uh in the past uh not recent past uh but several other communities on Long Beach Island and most communities or most counties throughout the state of New Jersey. Uh and again the area of expert is traffic
engineering, transportation planning. Uh, madam chair. >> Yes, I accept him. Thank you. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Tra, you heard Mr. Balo's question about I I don't know if there was a question raised at >> Was asking who to whom to ask.
>> Um, why? >> Well, we uh provided a traffic study uh that was dated October 17th, 2005. uh and uh to try and synthesize what's in here. Uh this level of traffic being
generated is in the single digits uh for the morning peak hour. Uh Saturday it may be up to 10 trips. Uh but it's just a low traffic generator and therefore it's not going to change any levels of service. It's not going to change any delay
calculations because it is such a low generator of traffic. And I think the original study that we prepared was for seven lots. Uh and the uh acknowledgement by Mr. Little in his report was reducing that to five lots in
effect reduces the traffic further. So there is no impact with regard to that level of traffic being generated by the project >> from from a rating standpoint. Dave, >> we're talking A's in the intersections that surround this. >> Was that a question? You said 2005.
Maybe you've got an updated >> 25. I'm sorry. >> Okay. Because the data that I see submitted in here is August 3rd, 2019 for a traffic count. >> Correct. Yeah, we've done several traffic studies in the area. Uh and with regard to timing, uh we utilize summer
data from 2019 as opposed to collecting off- peak time traffic volumes. So, uh we've what we have to do is increase that based on annual growth factors. uh for sure shore communities and that was what was done in the study.
>> So 19 gets increased to what's today. So that's been done is what you're saying. >> Yeah, it's we have background seasonal adjustments and well we actually didn't have to do a seasonal adjustment because we had summer counts but we have annual increases anticipated in traffic. Uh and
that's how we estimate what's going to happen not only for the the existing 2026 condition or in our report 2025 but in the future when this is actually built. >> I may have misunderstood because I thought you started from 2019 and that's
>> Jamie I can't hear what you're saying. said, "I'm looking at the Doom report. I saw a date of 2019 and I thought you took a 2019 volume and then added seven or five houses to it." Sounds like you didn't. Sounds like you
took 2019, brought it up to what's now current that there is Bird and Betty's at half the town goes down looking for sunsets. There's going to be a 600 seat restaurant. All of that's taken into consideration forward looking because it says, and it sounds like the data is. So, I guess my question is, are we using
2019 data? And I guess I'm being told you're not using 2019 data. >> We actually uh rose that data, >> okay, >> to account for the uh I guess the conditions that you're talking about, but also projecting into the future. Uh and we did our assessment based on 2027
if there was a a year and a half buildout date for this, >> including what could be a restaurant, >> including the restaurant. >> 600 people. >> Correct. >> Okay. Because there's there's considerable traffic. Can just curious where where did you get a 600 seat restaurant from?
>> I believe we approved a restaurant to be built. >> I think it started at 800. It got down to about 600. >> We not se occupants occupancy. So sorry occupancy. So
and um Okay. And when you consider traffic, what's traffic? cars or is that golf carts and bicycles and pedestrians and all the people who are going down there? What what is a traffic unit? >> Yeah, typically it relates to traffic
vehicles uh that are out on the roadway. Uh sometimes that data is also adjusted for uh pedestrian activity, bicycle activity. Uh there are defaults that are used in the programs we do to do capacity analyses at the intersections
and again fairly low volume type situations within these intersections even in the summertime and therefore the the very low volume that's being generated is is not going to impact the levels of service. I guess one more
question. Why a Saturday midday peak of 1 to two when to my limited time spending down there it's the evenings on a Saturday that has the most traffic of people going either for sunsets or for dinners or for whatever people go down
there for. Why it seemed 1 to 2 o'clock wasn't necessarily representative. That's a good question with regard to why we do midday. Midday usually has a background traffic volume peak. Uh and what we do is overlay the peak of the
generator. So the peak of a residential generator is not going to be in that midday, but in effect we overlay that traffic on top of what might be the peak on the background. We also have to overlay the the other development growth that's happening in the area uh to to
get our base volumes. So this is all taken into account, but it's typical for a Saturday that you have uh most of your intensity in that time frame. In this particular case, uh if the marine is not as active
overnight and you might have restaurant activity going on, it's going to balance out. But to try and balance that out ourselves, we overlay the peak of the generator, the residential on top of the peak, uh the midday peak that we took on Saturday. So it's residential as well as
everything else is considered in that. But the the spectators, the diners, all of that. It's not just res. It's just not looking at potential five times three parking spaces that >> as as the system is included.
>> Yeah. As we do our analysis for this, we have to look at what's being proposed uh and then overlay that on the background. So that's why I keep referring to residential. The residential increase here is negligible in effect. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Any other questions for Mr. Shron? >> Mr. Miller. Jim, you were previously uh recognized by this board in 2024. Um but perhaps um uh just to make sure everybody's we have some new members here. Why don't you
tell everybody who you are and uh whether you're qualified to um to provide planning testimony this evening? >> Yes. Uh, for the record, James Miller, professional planner. I'm a licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey. I'm certified by the American
Institute of Certified Planners as a certified planner. I have a masters in city and regional planning from Rutgers University. I've appeared as an expert witness in over 260 municipalities in New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Been qualified as an expert in those
municipalities. I've also been qualified as an expert witness in state and federal courts. Madam Chair. >> Yes, I accept him. Thank you. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Some of you may also have been exposed to me in the most recent New Jersey planning officials
course. I don't know if you the new members have taken that course, but I also teach that class. >> You have 18 months. Get moving. Um 162 pupils. >> Um Jim, I'm I'm going to just ask you a
general question and then I'm going to let you go. Um, Jim, what what what's your relationship to this application? >> I've basically been the uh planning consultant on on land use and zoning issues related to the application. >> Um, and and how are the um the
residential uses identified in the zoning code uh for the the marine commercial zoning district as well as the the burough's master plan? Both the master plan and the zoning ordinance call out this use as a permitted use
without conditions within the uh zoning district. Uh the code is based on the master plan which recommends that this be a permitted use within the MC district. Uh the code itself is structured so that the uses which are
permitted in the MC district um include the residential uses that are permitted in the RA and RB districts. And that's section uh two uh 212-15 which refers back to 2000 uh or 212-9.
And basically what what those regulations state is that this is a again a permitted use within the uh within the MC district as designed by the engineer. >> Thanks Jim. I I've referenced a number of times this evening the burrow's
master plan. What significance does the burough's master plan have as it relates to this application? >> Basically, what the master plan does is it provides the underlying uh planning policies that support the zoning ordinance. And as the uh members know,
uh there's a there should be a consistency between the master plan and the zoning ordinance. And in the case of Beach Haven, there's an absolute consistency. they're they're they're completely consistent with each other and the master plan is also relatively current.
So basically the uh the burough has done everything they're supposed to do in terms of planning and zoning and as a result this is a permitted use. >> Jim, there's been discussion this evening about um dry boat slips in in the off season. Are the dry boat slips
provided for in either the zoning ordinance or the master plan? >> Yes. Again, they're provided for in both documents and also are permitted uses within this district. >> Do you have an opinion as it relates to these dry boat boat slips?
>> Yes. Uh the drive boat slips are also a permitted use and they're explicitly mentioned in both the master plan and the ordinance as permitted accessory uses. So Jim, you you've had an opportunity obviously to review the plans, the
Burough's zoning ordinance, the master uh the master plan. Do you have an opinion as it relates to uh the applicant's rights um and whether we're compliant with the zoning ordinance? >> Yes. My opinion is that the application
is in complete compliance with the zoning ordinance and applies it complies with all the applicable regulations within the zoning code. uh and as well it also meets the uh standards in the subdivision and site plan controls as well. Uh I was prepared to argue the
waiver that was uh eliminated a few moments ago by the uh revised caffer opinion. So basically there's no relief required here at all. So Jim, would you categorize this application as a buy approval?
>> Yes. Okay. Um Jim, do you have any further testimony or um statements you'd like to provide? >> Not at this point. Uh it's uh again, it's a compliant application. >> Thank you, Jim. Any members have
questions for Mr. Miller? >> Thank you. Madam Chair, I believe that um concludes our testimony. >> All right. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um I'm going to open it to the public. Can
I have a motion to open it? >> Wait a minute. If I may, if I may, Madam Chair, I my suggestion is >> given the number of people that are here, given the fact that we know the fire chief has written a report, I think we should go to Mr. Little first for any further comments that he may have, any questions from the board to Mr. Little
and we can hear from the fire chief and then we can open it to the public. That would be my suggestion. >> Okie dokie. Go ahead. >> Right. Thank the only other con the only other concern I have and it's in my
letter is the utilities in Pennsylvania Avenue. Um you know if this is approved one of the conditions will be subject to review by the water and sewer department and whether there'll be any upgrades to the mains in uh Pennsylvania Avenue to
accommodate the new homes and the bathroom. It was in my review letter but I just wanted to reinforce it on the record. >> Mr. Cool. Uh, other than that, I don't have any other comments. Some of the things that I was concerned about, the buffer uh, was addressed and I'm anxious
to hear from, I guess, the public and the fire uh, mar or fire chief. >> Mr. Coleman, you want to have Mr. Stout respond to Mr. Little's comments order? >> Sure. >> As far as Mr. Little's comments, uh, yes, we will we will submit everything to the MUA and make sure that everything
is compliant and if work needs to be done, we'll address it. Thank you. Thank you. >> I believe we have someone from the BJ department here. >> Can you state your name and your affiliation? Where you live, please?
>> Yep. Michael Custer. I live at 2718 Atlantic Avenue in Long Beach Township and the deputy chief of Long Beach. Do >> you mind stepping closer if you don't mind? Thank you so much. >> Yeah. Deputy Chief Kro, raise your right hand. Do you swear from the testimony you'll
give before the board this evening be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Go ahead. Um, so the fire company does have some concerns. Um, I think if the uh access is widened, I think that will help
address that. Um, one of the major concerns is the removal of the access to the site from Pennsylvania Avenue. Currently, there is an access gate along Pennsylvania Avenue just to the north of
Third Street. Um, Third Street is where the closest fire hydrant is. Um, with the removal of that access, that hydrant to use that hydrant, particularly as we get to the northern edge of the property, particularly the northwestern
edge, becomes much more problematic because there's no direct access from Pennsylvania Avenue. So, those would have to come around from that fire hydrant all the way to um I'm not sure which street Burden Betty's is on. I'd
have to come through there and in through that southern access and then all the way back into that back corner. Um yeah, ideally we would like to, you know, have better access. Um the boat
storage also does prevent a little bit of challenge um just because it is quite densely packed on the property. um in the event that there is a fire there, that's going to require, you know, quite a bit of effort to put that out and
water will be a premium for that. Um again, the the northwest corner is of particular concern just because of the access there. Um perhaps if there is some access given on Pennsylvania Avenue
to the site um towards the northern portion that may help alleviate that concern. Um additional hydrants possibly could help as well. >> Mr. Coleman, do you have anybody that can testify in response to the concerns
raised by the deputy fire chief? >> No, but I I I do have some question. >> Sorry. Yeah, just the mic. I'm sorry. >> But I do have some questions. I I guess cross if you will for the deputy chief. So, deputy chief, could you could you
show me your on the map here your concern with the the Northwest? >> Absolutely, please. Somewhere in this area is a gate providing access to the property. Um that's obviously a lot closer than an
access point here. Hydrant is located here. So >> on Third Street >> on Third Street that would be the closest hydrant. So, in the event of a fire in any of this
area here, obviously we can run a run a 5 in line into a truck in this area here and pump with no access here. We would have to come in from here. Um, I'm not sure where the closest
hybrid is here because quite frankly, this hybrid may no longer be the closest hybrid to service this property given there would be no access coming from the eastern side of this. >> So, so let let me ask you um you have
Marlin and Tuna and I think you have a residential structure at the top of Pennsylvania Avenue. >> Would you mind holding the microphone for us up here? Thank you very much. >> Sure. Go ahead. >> Yeah. H how would the department uh
address a fire at either the club or the residential property um at the at the top of Pennsylvania Avenue? >> Right here. Yeah. >> Yeah. So that would obviously we connect to the hydrant here and run the line right down here. Mhm.
>> So that's, you know, not sure how many feet exactly that is, but as opposed to running it down here over to here, which is probably the same distance before we would even get into the access to the property.
>> So did did, deputy chief, did did you provide the the letter that we received from the chief? >> Um, I did not provide it. It was from the chief. >> Did you have an opportunity to review that letter? I did. >> Okay. Did Did you assist in uh in preparing that letter?
>> I did not assist in preparing that letter, but I have discussed the concerns with the chief and I do agree with his assessment. >> Um is there anybody else from the board that you had a discussion with as it relates to the letter? >> I have not had any discussions with anyone on the board. >> Okay.
Um >> and and again c can you um the the addition of the 20ft drive aisle in the rear does that improve the ability of the department to to fight the fire
>> a fire? Um, yes. I mean, having a 20 foot access, as long as there is nothing along the bulkhead that would impede that impede into that 20 ft. Um, yes, that can definitely help. Um, we're not going to be able to obviously make that
turn in any apparatus. >> Um, it's just far too sharp a turn there. >> Mhm. So I if if there are five houses on on any deadend street that that have
backyards that back up to a parallel street next street over second street to third street. H how would you fight the fires for those particular single structure >> for five houses on a like these five houses here? >> Yeah. Just put them on a different
street. >> Yeah. Um, I mean we would fight >> where you have no access to the backyard. >> That's I mean typical the access to the backyard of most homes is through the side >> and and would you have >> Yeah. The firefighting issue is not
accessing the backs of these residences here. The firefighting issue is accessing an issue with the boat storage or perhaps even a marina fire all the way here in the northwest corner.
um for the northwest corner. Um would wouldn't the uh access point at the I guess the southwest corner uh access driving straight to the fire, wouldn't that alleviate that concern?
>> Um from here? >> Yeah. >> Uh no, because we can't drive a fire truck through the marina. >> This is all louder. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. I understand that. But there are drive aisles to get there. >> There's one dried aisle right here. Is
there I mean, am I missing a drive aisle? >> Well, there's two access points, correct? >> Well, here and here, both on the southern side of the property, >> right? And and it was the Was there a re um was there a reason that the chief
said there was only a single point of ingress and eress in his letter? >> Uh he probably was to referring to this here. Um, I can't attest to exactly what his thought process there, >> but he may have just been referring to
this area of the of the plan. But again, I would be trying to, you know, guess what, you know, he meant there. Um, but there is, you know, the only access is on the southern side of the property. There is
no access obviously from the west because that's water. There's no access from the north because that's water. And with the elimination of the gate here, there's no access to the east. So that puts all of our access mainly through here. Ide also you can
enter this way, but that's only for that port that small portion of the property. Anything that happens from here up and over, that's the access. >> Am I able to interject at this point?
Just a quick question. From my knowledge of the marina, I thought all the larger boat storage was along Second Street. And based on the fire u testimony, can we move some of the boat slips to the
parking stalls along Second Street and open the gate up again on Third and create some offseason parking in that area. still maintain the number of boat slips and provide that additional access into the marina from Pennsylvania
Avenue. You wouldn't lose any boat storage. Again, we're talking about offseason parking that you're telling me is not being used. So, the question, can we create parking there, move some of these slips to second >> and open up a gate? So what I could
basically say is this is that the requirement the parking requirement what's driving this layout this location we're all aware that the the 86 spaces that are required is only required during peak season in the middle of the winter when these boats are here we
don't need those additional 47 I believe it's 47 spaces for the marina use if we then take the uh nine spaces looking at that the space there about those nine spaces and put them into the original location that we
had originally, we can get an access to that point. Then we would have it's not a variance because we're not really using that. It would just be for off for the off peak season. If we had all three, the restaurant, the shift store, and the garage operational, we'd still
have more than enough taking out the 47 spaces. We could accommodate your your request or need if we eliminate those spaces during the off peak would be the suggestion. That would be the easiest way to to answer that. It still meets
the code, still meets the requirements. It just doesn't meet the 86 for the full year when boats are not in the water. >> Yeah, that would just that would require the board to grant a variance based on the way the code's currently written. So, it would be up to the board,
>> but would it be I guess the question I would leave this to the attorneys for the question. It's not being used. So, >> just make sure you're using microphones, guys. Thank you. >> I understand it's not being used, but we have a code and the only way you can get by the code is for this board to approve
something different. If you want to request that, you could certainly request it and see what what the outcome would be from the board. >> Yeah. Additionally, as since you wanted me to address some of this on the plan,
it would be from a fire perspective, you know, as part of the site improvements, it would be great to have a hydrant towards the northern end of that property. Um, that would that would go a long way
to help address firefighting concerns. Um, would eliminate a lot of the hose hose lay length. Um th I mean those are the two biggest issues of course is access to the site
particularly on the north side. So the farther north that an access could be placed on Pennsylvania Avenue um would be very helpful. And then of course you know a hydrant um
that would help too particularly on the north end. Any other questions for me? >> Thanks. M question. >> Would you also recommend that to make the turning radius that a couple of
those dry dock slips be sliced off there to be able to make that turn? >> Yeah. I mean, making that turn, you know, I I would leave that up to the planners. Um, I would I would offer, you know, if
they wanted to have us come out with an apparatus, we'd be more than happy to arrange for that to help with that planning. Um, you know, suggestion might be thinking about that turn and access from Pennsylvania Avenue towards the
northern side of the property might alleviate some of the raw 90° turn that might be required. But again, I that's that's something for the planners to figure out how they would like to address the concerns.
>> If if those five lots were all 50 by 100, would you be able to now provide access from Pennsylvania Avenue for straight runs to that corner that you're talking about possible rainfire? >> They could. >> Um
well, I mean, yeah, a 20 foot because you're talking a difference of 20 feet, right? Because the other the one is 70 ft. >> 70. >> Yeah. I mean, if they were all 50 by 100, you know, depending on where the access would be placed would determine
how much that would alleviate the concerns. We just have one second. Mr. So, Madam Chair, C can can we have a 2, three minute recess just to um address the deputy fire chief's concerns? I
>> I think that's a good idea, Madam Chair. We'll take a a five minute recess. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> No, three minutes. Three minutes, not five. Three. >> You got it. My fourth year. It's the first year we
had planned to retire. Everybody >> were you before that >> I was I was in >> you know you raised your family >> and yeah then my wife and I retired and
we didn't know if you wanted to show that I Come on, Eric. Let's go. >> Put them over here. Just create >> and then you can open a gate. >> No, you don't need the bearings. If you
make if you take these even though none of these spaces will be used anyway, >> but like in other words, whatever you eliminate here, you got to give me some spaces over here. >> But open the gate and run. All right, let's go.
>> Storage is still part of the care anyway. That's all I got. >> Are you men through talking now? >> Mr. Coleman was Was there a question? I'm sorry. >> You asked for the break. So, yes, you
had a chance to >> I'm sorry, Mr. Yes. Um I I I believe we're we're going to keep the plans the way they are and I believe that uh any approval would be subject to um the fire
code or the fire chief's uh approval. Um we've uh proposed to the fire chief um the in of the installation of a dry standpipe uh that would be um
towards the end of lot 3.08. I I'll defer to the deputy chief whether he would find that acceptable. I'm I like to hear his comments on that. I know he may not be able to commit to that 100% at this point, but uh I'm wondering if
that would alleviate some of the department's concerns. >> Yeah, I we can uh we can definitely review that. Um it is something I would need to review with the the fire chief as well. Um I think having a water
source on the north end of the property would definitely help quite a bit. Um, again, it would most preferable would be some type of access from Pennsylvania. >> Thank you. >> And and the requested access, Mr.
Coleman, just for the record, and so we're clear, that's being requested by the fire chief off of Pennsylvania Avenue is not something that the applicant is willing for. Correct. >> Not at this time, I'm sure. Thank you. Are you done?
>> No, we're open to the >> Yes. Nothing further for Mr. K. >> Nothing further. All right. I'm going to make a motion to open this application to the public. Can I have a motion? I'm opening the application to the public. Can I have a
second? >> Second. >> Who was the second? >> Mr. Tenquist. Thank you, >> Jerry. Is there any Mary Claire, anybody in the audience who would like to come up and speak? Please indicate that they're allowed three minutes at the
maximum. Madam Chair, we have an attorney here who, as I understand it, represents an objector, so he may have some witnesses, but this would be the appropriate time for Mr. W to present whatever testimony and or evidence on behalf of his client.
Ray went n >> members of the board. Good evening. My name is Ray Went with the Went Law Firm. Uh I represent the Beach Haven Marland Tuna Club. Uh Madam Chairwoman, I'll be as quick as I possibly can tonight. >> Thank you. >> But we do have a lot to present. I have two witnesses and an expert for a total
of three. Uh we're here tonight obviously to object to the application. Going to read some case law to you very quickly uh from our Bible, the Cox Land Use Guide. uh that says two significant reasons you can deny site plan. Traffic
issues and first responder issues. Number one and number two. You absolutely have the discretion. This is not a quote by right application. So let's just start right there. You have discretion tonight. It's not variance discretion and our planner will talk
about that a little bit. But you're also going to see there's significant inconsistencies in the plans that have been submitted and what's reality versus what is theoretical. And you're going to see the quote boat
storage issue is far from resolved. And we have demonstrative exhibits. I brought 16 sets of paper. I've got electronic sets for our Zoom audience. And you're going to see how the boat storage can't possibly happen the way it's being presented. So, not only do you have your first responders having a
major issue, you're going to see that the folks that are there all the time at the club are going to show you exactly why this can't happen the way it's presented. Uh, we respectfully suggest that application should be pulled and reworked based on everything. Um, usually when a first responder comes to
a board with a concern, he says something like, "My guys can't get in there and my equipment can't get in there and that's about it." Your fire chief sat down and wrote a twopage report with six bullets detailed of the
problems with this application. I've never seen anything like it in 22 and a half years of practice. So, you have something a lot to consider. I'm not going to belabor the point. Uh we're going to get set up sign up on Zoom. Uh I have three witnesses. I guess they should all be sworn in at the same time for the sake of efficiency. And we'll
get right to it if that's okay. >> Perfect. Thank you. And if it's okay, I'm going to sit while I uh maneuver the exhibits. >> Mr. As long as you speak in the microphone and your witnesses do, that's fine. >> Absolutely.
Absolutely. We have Phil Storio who's going to be our planner this evening. We have Brian Casey who is the rear commodor which is basically the presidentele of the club. And we have Eric Cross who is the current commodore or the president of the club to be sworn in.
And I'll pass out these exhibits in the meantime. >> Gentlemen, raise your right hand please. Do you swear affirm the testimony you'll give before the board this evening will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Yes. Thank you. As we are passing out the exhibit and
I'm joining the as I'm passing out the exhibits and joining the Zoom >> meeting. If I may have permission to share my screen, whoever is our administrator Yes,
as I mentioned earlier, um, Cox on zoning is our learned treatise in the legal industry and in the field of zoning. All of your professionals have a copy, uh, or they should. Um and section 23-10 at page 339 of that treatise
indicates that a development uh for site plan may be denied where uh it creates a situation that would make it quote impossible for the fire department to reach upper floors with its aerial ladder trucks impinging upon safety.
quote, "Fire safety is a factor which may always be considered by a municipal agency," citing fire safety in the community planning process by Mosquitz and Drollinger in 1989. Quote, "Although a site plan for permitted use may not be denied because
it will have an impact on traffic congestion in the area, it would be proper to deny a site plan because of the difficulty of providing safe access to the site. because providing a safe means of access to property to the site itself is a zoning purpose. Similarly,
the the denial of a site plan would be justified if the proposed means of ingress and egress ingress and egress would create vehicular traffic problems on the site itself. Citing uh the law division matter of Lionel's appliance va 156 NJ super 257
law division 1978. So again, you have ample legal authority to deny this application this evening. Um, we're going to show you a series of exhibits and so they are not brand new to you. I'm just going to go through them. I've
also provided an index at the top of those tabbed exhibits so you can take a look at what they're described as. And you'll see our exhibit there, exhibits one through nine. Exhibit one has uh five subp parts A through E. There are series of aerial photographs
taken this past February 2026. So you know that they're they're recent. Uh and we'll get testimony from Mr. Casey as to the authenticity of those photographs. Won't go through all of them at length right now. We've also attached this exhibit and this is 01 0203.
O being for opposition. O2 is the amended site plan that was recently submitted. 03 is the um revised site layout recently submitted.
04 is the um updated waterfront development plan which we're going to focus a significant amount of attention on in our presentation. 05 is a a closeup uh a closer shot of the aerial photo that you first saw in one.
06 is um that same aerial with some notations that we're going to discuss where you're going to see the boat storage as proposed can't happen the way they say it is. Next is 07 which is uh the uh waterfront development uh plan has updated with an
overlay uh overlaid on top of our aerial photo to show you exactly again why the boat storage situation cannot happen the way as presented. 08 is our fire is a letter that we actually submitted. Um, we usually do this in proofs of a sub just a subdivision application, but we
did submit a letter uh suggesting that we perhaps talk a purchase situation where the club purchased some land from the marina um particularly on the northernmost lot. You'll see the exact lot when it was still seven lots being proposed. Um, that negotiation's not
closed. It was just conveyed to me that we would they would be proceeding with tonight's application. Um, so I don't want to misrepresent anything in terms of how that went down and what the current status is. Uh, the door is still open for discussion, but as of right
now, um, it's it's left at where it is and just with my letter subject to what happens tonight. And then, of course, for purposes of our record, I've attached the fire chief's letter as 09. With that, uh, now that you have been
familiarized with the exhibits, I'd like to first call on Brian Casey. Are you comfortable standing or? >> Sure. >> Okay. Um, guess I'll do this. >> Minister Casey, you've been sworn in. Uh, you are the rear commodor of the
club. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> And how many years you've been a member? >> Uh, 10. >> And do you have any voting experience? uh have owned boats for 15 years. Okay. >> So, you're familiar with storing them, navigating them, putting them away for the winter time, all that type of stuff.
>> Yes. >> Okay. And you spend a decent amount of time at the club? >> Yes, I do. >> Okay. So, you're familiar with the various congestion issues at at the club, >> correct? uh like just to you know authenticate some photographs and and feel free to
comment on each of these photographs starting with 01A which is our aerial >> yeah this was an aerial photo was taken on the uh the 25th of February uh you know obviously it shows Queen City Marina uh it shows the beach Marlin and
Tuna Club and it shows the current state of the boats that are stored there today uh and what's on the property. So just so we have a little frame of reference, I've highlighted the the boat club. Is that an accurate highlight of where the boat club's located? >> That's the Beach Haven Marlin Jun Club. >> Okay. So this is the boat configuration
in terms of the uh the dry storage in February of 2026. >> Correct. >> Um next we'll turn to 01B which I'll represent to the board is a photograph taken from the southwest
looking to the northeast. What can you tell us about this photo? So that's also another photo that was taken. It was taken on February 25th. Uh it shows the current state of the marina, what's stored there now, where the boats are, uh you know, and it shows where the uh
subdivision is being proposed as well as where uh current boats are stored. >> And we have yet another angle. This is uh one C. >> Correct. that's out where the proposed restaurant is or uh you know the site of
the restaurant future restaurant. >> So basically a little bit more out out more towards the bay but still from the southwest looking to the northeast basically. >> Correct. >> And just again for reference the clubs over here. >> Yep. >> And one D.
Yeah. That that's facing uh facing east. Uh that's the northwest dock right there. Uh and that's the club there on the left hand side. Also taken on February 25th. >> And lastly, we have one E.
>> Yep. Another aerial photo taken the same day. Uh, and that shows the area right next to that uh large shed that they have for uh weddings and boat repair and stuff with the uh the club being sort over
here to the right someplace. >> Uh yeah, offscreen. >> And you've you've looked at the application what we marked as two, three, and four, which are the amended site plan, the revised um layout, and then the updated waterfront development
plan. Yes, that's correct. >> Now, we showed us uh exhibit 5 05 a closeup of the aerial. Is that's also an accurate depiction of the uh the marina? >> That's correct. >> Again, we're up here on the right hand corner. >> Yep.
And excuse me, guys. So, let's take a look. Let's take a look at 06 with a little bit more detail and looks to be the aerial from '05 with
some notations. >> That's correct. So, what you're looking at here is the aerial shot. Uh, and it shows uh denotations talking about the plans that are proposed that you guys are looking at tonight. Uh if you look
at the northwest dock there uh up at the very top currently there's 16 boats. You'll notice how they're all placed on an angle facing inwards. Uh the reason they're placed like that is I believe that they were placed there with a trailer. uh that area that is the
northwest piece. They're showing 27 boats will be stored out there when today they're only currently storing 16 of them. Uh the reason they're placed there at that angle is because they were put in by a trailer. On the plan it shows them all nice and neat like
matchbox cars next to each other. That's not reality of how those boats are placed or how they're stuffed into areas. Uh, sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, you can go back. >> Okay. Uh, the next area
>> before you move on, it says 16 boats, but the plan shows 27, >> correct? >> So, based on what our reading of the plan, there's a proposal of 27 boats in that square area. >> That's correct. Yeah. So, they're they're proposing putting a lot more
boats out on that end. And when when you talk about the config configurations, this is this is what's shown on the updated plan. >> Yeah. They're they're all stuffed very close, nice, neat, like matchbox cars.
Uh anybody who's put a boat away knows that if you put it away on a trailer, the trailer is going to be wider than the boat. So when it puts the boat down, you're going to have space in between each of the boats. uh what is being depicted there is a
perfect world and something done on a computer not what's reality >> how the boats getting there. >> So those boats are getting put out there uh today in the photo that we're looking at the with the overlay. Those ones would have all been placed out there
with a trailer. Uh because there's not a great way to put them in perfectly neat like that on that outside uh fork there. The the tools don't exist to currently to put a boat out there like
that. >> What about the our second red box down to the right here? It says 36 boats, but the plan shows zero. What are we depicting here? So that's that's where the homes are being proposed to go. Uh you know, there's a lot of larger boats.
You can see at the very top of it, all those boats have that angle because of the trailer. Uh and then the larger boats right there were placed out there obviously by a uh a travel lift. That's how they were able to put them into that like perfect grid area. But a lot of
those boats are a lot larger than the 26 foot boat that's being portrayed in the uh the planning. >> So there's 36 boats that are Sorry to interrupt you. There's 36 boats that are uh in that area that are going to be homes. So you know those 36 boats are
going to have to go somewhere. >> So not every not every boat's going to be this size. Is that right? >> Uh that's correct. >> And in fact a lot of a lot of the boats are more like this size. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the if if anybody walks by the marina, you're going to see a lot of
larger boats. Uh you know the the slips if if you can jump back to uh yeah a lot of the slips as you touched on earlier are larger slips. They're not 26t boat slips. The the boats that are
being stored at Queen City Marina are not all 26T boats. The vast majority of them are larger boats. So, just so we're clear, you're talking about the slips out here. That's correct. Yeah. The the the waterfront marina that it is is suited to cater
larger boats. That's that's the kind of marina it is. It's made for bigger boats and there aren't as many 26ft boats as are portrayed on this application. >> And moving down to our third red box is
15 boats. Plan shows 40. >> Yeah. So, uh, that's going to be the new storage area that's proposed and it currently has 16 when, you know, if you look at your 26 foot boats, they're saying there's 40 of them that are going in there. Uh, you know, I don't know if
you can zoom in a little bit more on the, uh, PDF there. >> Uh, six or seven >> on this one right here. if you can. I mean, it it my my point is that the 15 boats that are there are large boats. They're, you know, 35 foot
boats, 40 foot boats. Uh, perfect. Thank you. They're they're much larger boats. Uh, you know, the 26 ft boat equation still doesn't work because of how neatly the matchbox cars would need to be stacked up next to each other.
And again, these boats here in our red block towards the bottom right hand corner are considerably bigger than the spaces that are being depicted in these plants. >> That's correct. And how about our bottom red blocking
boats plan show zero? >> Yeah. So that that's another area that has larger boats all placed at an angle. Uh once again, you know, that area shows no boats in the current plan. You know, we're just concerned where are all these
boats going to go? Uh you know, we're all talking about fire departments and getting people in and out. And god forbid there's a fire. Uh boats are full of gasoline, diesel fuel. They're made of fiberglass, which burns. How is the fire department going to access those
areas? Uh because those boats are going to have to go somewhere. >> And what is the traffic like back there? Uh in the summer it's considerable. You know, anybody here who's been down to Bird and Betty's or in Beach Haven has
seen lots of traffic. It's difficult to park. Uh you know, we often have people who block our driveway as well. It's it's a tough tight area. >> Any other concerns that you have with respect to this application other than what we've just covered? Yeah, I mean it
it kind of changes the ability for the place to be a marina. Uh if you can't store boats, is it still a marina? Are you still able to maintain the slips? You know, will it only be a marina for 26 ft boat matchbox car boats or the
reality of what's there today? >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> How many boats are in exhibit the picture exhibit uh five? How many boats are on there in total in that picture right now? >> I think the I think six might do better
for us. We have looks like 16 boats up in the red block up top. We have 36 boats in the red block to the right, 15 boats just south of that and then three more boats. >> Better at math than me. I think it's so
84. 84 votes. with a lot of that space being removed for storage purposes. So, Mr. Casey, you are you're finished, Mr. W, you're finished with Mr. Casey? >> Yes. Did we want to do cross after each witness? That's fine. >> I think that's I think that's a fair way
to go. >> Sure. Absolutely. So, Mr. Casey, you describe yourself as a boater. >> Uh, yes. >> Um, would you say that that qualifies you to have an opinion with respect to the operations of a marina? I'd say it gives me an understanding of
the marina business having been a patron for many many years. >> Do you have any expertise in running a marina? >> I do not. >> Would you say that the past photo um is that indicative of future operations?
>> Uh I'm not aware of their future operations and what machinery they may get. >> So So it's it's safe to say that you haven't had any discussion with Miss Marcus or Mr. Schneider as to how they plan to store boats in the future. Have not.
Um, thank you, Mr. Casey. >> Like to call Eric Cross, please. Eric Cross. >> Everybody, >> let's see. Eric, let's see. Mr. Mr. Cross, you've been sworn in. You heard we don't want to repeat all the
testimony because we want to be efficient here, but uh you've heard Mr. Casey's testimony. Do you agree with his testimony? >> I do. >> Is there anything else you would like to add on top of his testimony being that you are the Commodore and how how long have you been the Commodore? >> Uh the Commodore is a two-year position.
Uh so in octo this coming October will be the end of my uh serving as Commodore. >> And how long have you been with the club? I've been a member eight years, but I've been fishing the White Morland to tour for about 25 years. >> So, you're familiar with boating and storage and those types of situations? >> Yeah, my first boat I bought in 1990. On
my seventh boat now, I can't help myself. Um, >> but I'm very familiar with boating and um and the like. >> And you do you share the concerns Mr. Casey has with respect to the practicality of what's being proposed? >> Yeah. And again, for for me, um,
representing a club, it's all about safety. um very concerned about um the letter from Fire Chief Mats. Um and you know the thing that's that you're not seeing also is on these if you zoom in the photo you can see that there's other things besides boats here. There's
pilings laying around. There's pallets of concrete block. There's piles of meat. There's trailers without a boat in it. Um, so whatever way that they can figure to put these bigger boats someplace somehow on the property is a very very big concern
being so close together and obviously flammable. If there's a west wind, god forbid there's a fire, it's going to wipe out our club. Um, you know, with fiberglass and fuel and batteries and things like that. Uh, just very concerned about that. And I think, you know, we have really two things
happening. On the one hand, we have, you know, a plan that meets code and requirements and then on the other hand, you have reality. And the reality is I think this would be a hazard for our club and the community. And we marked as exhibit 08 uh the
letter that I submitted to Mr. Coleman's office with respect to the club's interest in discussing a possible purchase. Did the club authorize me to issue that letter? >> Yes. and you sat with the club resolution said we want to >> yes talks >> yes we have an executive meeting once a
month at the club and we have discussed this many times >> apart from what's already been discussed and testified to is there any are there any other concerns or issues you'd like to address >> uh no >> okay thank you Mr. Cross >> thank you uh Mr. Cross similar to Mr.
Casey, um, can you can you tell me and the board um what credentials you have as it relates to um managing a marina? >> I have not ever managed a marina. >> Okay. Um, did have you spoken with Ms.
Marcus and Mr. Schneider about what their plans are for the storage of boats moving forward? >> Uh, no. Just what's been on put on paper? >> If if if I agreed to sell you a lot tonight, would your objections go away? But you can answer. >> Pardon?
>> Depends on the price. >> So, it's more of a more of an economic issue than a safety issue, I guess. >> No, I disagree. >> Yes. But yes, we did offer to purchase a lot uh so that we have a buffer. God
forbid there's a fire or an issue. I I also want to add they're they're welding in that lot right next to our building all the time. So again, another hazard. >> Would you you can defer with your you can confer with your council, but would you agree that the storage of boats uh
is a caffer issue? >> I'm not qualified to talk about caffer. >> Do do you know have you had an opportunity to look at the beach haven bur code? >> No. >> As it relates to storage of boats? >> No. >> So would you be surprised if I told you that there's no provision as it relates
to the storage of boats? would nothing would surprise me more. >> Thank you, Mr. Cross. Thank you, >> Mr. W. Um, can can you tell me the case again that you um mentioned at the outset of your
>> the citation? >> Yeah, please. >> Sure. It's the Cox volume. Well, I have the 2023 edition uh page 340 >> and the uh case that was cited with respect to vehicular traffic problems is
Lionel's Appliance Center VCA CI TTA 156NG Super 257 low division 1978. Did you did did you look at the the fire apparatus uh the latter case um for the
denial? >> I'm not a witness and you're not going to cross-examine me. >> We just want to know what >> I just want to know which case you're referenced the case earlier. >> That's fine that he referenced the case to the board. If you want to present any authority to the board, you gentlemen
may do it. I'm not going to have lawyers who don't provide testimony. start to argue with each other about the laws to my quasi judicial but you're more than welcome to present any case that you think stands for any proposition contrary to that which Mr. Wentz said. >> Thank you Mr. Rous.
>> Okay Mr. W your next witness please. I'd like to call Phil Storio, please. >> Phil Storio. S A R. You can spell >> S A R T O R I O. >> You want to sit up?
>> Mr. Storio, if you could please provide your credentials with respect to why you're here today as an expert on behalf of the club. >> Certainly. Um, I'm a licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey and a member of the American Institute of Certified Planners. I've
been licensed in New Jersey continuously since uh July of 1987. Um, my career has been working both as a private consultant and also u as the uh municipal director of community
development in uh two townships, one in Atlantic County, one in Gloucester County. What townships were that? >> Um, most recently Hamilton Township, better known as probably most people know as Maze Landing, and the other is Franklin Township in western Gloucester
County. Um, I've appeared before numerous boards in Ocean Burlington, um, Gloucester, uh, Cape May, and Atlantic County. Like to move to have Mr. Sur admitted as an expert
professional planner. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, Madam. Before we begin, I'm gonna ask you the two questions I ask of all my experts. Are your observations and methodologies based upon accepted principles in the field of professional planning? >> Yes.
>> And will your conclusions be based upon a reasonable degree of certainty in that field? >> Um, yes. >> What what did you review and and tell us what you found? >> Sure. I reviewed the um the application materials that have been submitted
including the um two the original application submission and the subsequent revised plans. I've reviewed the letters by the board's uh engineer the fire uh chief's letter.
I've also looked at the caffer documentation that was submitted as as uh by the application >> and we talked about the the traffic and and voting issues. You take them at at whatever order you want. What issues did you find with respect to the traffic?
um the the with regard to traffic, I guess the uh it's actually related to the uh issue of also the the fire safety. Um
in com in conducting my review, uh first I will uh concur that the subdivision proposed as uh Mr. Miller testified to does not require any variances. So uh
normally in most instances arguing the points of it doesn't meet this criteria of land use law has a negative impact in that way. Uh but the going into after reviewing the documents
had four areas of concern uh to discuss with the board. Two of them have already been addressed through the questions from uh Mr. little uh dealing with the buffering issue uh along the rear of the
proposed residential lots and clarifying that the um first floor area of the proposed dwellings would not be considered part of um or reserved for water dependent uses. So those were two
of the the questions that I had going in. Um, as far as the uh other items, concur with the uh concerns expressed by the the fire chief and the deputy chief um
especially with the lack of a secondary emergency uh access uh from the the Pennsylvania Avenue and to the site. Um, currently there is one there. Uh,
and to eliminate that could cause problems in the future. The the concern you're I've learned to uh look at over time is what happens if you know halfway up that access lane you
have a fire emergency. And while that's going on, 5 minutes later, somebody at the at the rear end of the site has to get the EMTs come out for a heart attack. How is that emergency vehicle going to get to the
rear of the site? So, h clearly having a secondary means of uh access to the site from Pennsylvania Avenue would be uh an area of concern. Um the the second area that uh was
mentioned in the fire chief's letter but hasn't been a significant amount of discussion about is the the proximity of uh the sword boats uh to the rear of of the residential
lots. Uh it's not a huge distance. Um I think it's probably less than 50 ft as shown there and uh I think that's that's a significant concern that that needs to be addressed.
>> Mr. Sto was sorry to interrupt but with respect to your experience particularly in Hamilton Township and Maze Landing for those who aren't familiar Maze Landing is a pretty diverse geographic area isn't it in terms of the types of uses. >> Yes it is. >> You have the Hamilton Mall right the
racetrack. Mhm. >> car dealerships. >> Yes. >> Junkyards? >> Yes. >> Marinas? >> Yes. >> Lakes? >> Yes. >> I think a somewhat of a river goes through there. >> Great river. Yes. >> So, you've got you've got the wealth of experience of all different types of
uses. And you were the land use administrator in that district for a few decades, right? >> 19 years. >> 19 years. Almost two decades. So when you talk about these issues, you've you've dealt with these issues as a planner for Hamilton Township in the past. Correct.
>> Correct. >> Sorry to interrupt. Go ahead. >> Sorry. Um and then the the other issue I have which has been discussed before is that the um boat storage that's been submitted to
this board on the and shown on the waterfront development plans um as has been shown from the uh exhibits we've posted uh specifically
06 and 07. Um that seems to be difficult if not impossible to achieve based on even this the current conditions or recent conditions at the site where uh an area proposed for storage of of 40 boats
currently has 14 and it's full and it's been mentioned earlier that boating storage is a caffer issue as a land use administrator Isn't one of your priorities to make sure that the plans that are submitted
to Caffer are consistent with the plans that are submitted to the township? >> The plans that are approved by both agencies should be uh consistent with each other. Yes. And and the fact that it's submitted as part of this application.
I think you know the board should take a look at it and uh evaluate their uh boat storage. Any other observations with respect to this application? >> Um those are the significant observations I
had. Again uh the whole issue of buffering has been resolved. So that was the other concern. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you Mr. W. Mr. Storio. Um you mentioned it could present a problem. Is
that correct? um specific to what statement I made, >> fire safety. >> Yeah, it could in in the event of uh again two events occurring almost simultaneously. Yes.
>> Um and and you heard Deputy Chief Kustra um his testimony. Did did he at any point say that it was impossible to access the site? >> He did he did not say it was impossible to access the site. I believe he was
saying that the u secondary access from uh Pennsylvania Avenue would enhance their ability to u I'm not trying to put words in his mouth but basically enhance his their ability to respond. >> Right.
And and I think after the the short break, um when we had a discussion with the deputy chief, I think his and I don't want to put words in his mouth either. I think he said it would be preferential were were were his words preferential.
Uh and that the applicant agreed to work with the fire department to address their concerns. Did Did you hear that statement? >> Yes, I did. But uh in consideration of the um extent of the
uh change that may or may not be required, I think it would be uh an item that you know should be worked out. >> Mhm. and you know basically come back to the board showing that
>> uh for the board to act without knowing what the proposal is um puts them in a disadvantage really as far as making sure that uh the
application and any development that would would occur uh is safe. Um and and just to confirm while um you have a significant amount of experience as I guess what was the the land use
director um for for those particular towns um you're not a traffic expert correct? >> No. How about a fire safety expert? >> No. Thank you, Mr. Stoer.
Members of the board, thank you very much for your time. I hope you were efficient enough. We are the closest. We are the most effective. That's why we are here. We are respectfully requesting and submit that you have everything you need to deny this application tonight. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Mr.
>> Thank you. >> We're The way this works, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to do this one at a time. If anybody from the public wants to be heard, I ask that you raise your hand. We will call you one at a time. I will swear you in and then you can make your comments to the board. Please keep
in mind, we've been here for a while. The board's heard all the testimony behalf of the applicant as well as the objector and the objector's witnesses. I'd ask that you try not to be cumulative and repeat over and over again to the extent possible. But with that being said, if you'd like to be
heard again, please raise your hand, come up to the microphone, and the board will hear you. >> The gentleman in the gray hat. >> Eric, we need a motion to open it. >> We need a motion to open it. >> We're still in the public. Mr. Went was the first member to as an attorney. Got
it. as an objector. Some objectors come with attorneys, some don't. So, but good point, Mr. Baba, but we we're open to the public and we still are. >> So, sir, your name and address for the record, please. >> My name is David Wedi and I live at >> Spell Your last. >> W I DI.
>> Your address? >> I live at 103 Mohawk Trail in Shamong, New Jersey. 08088. >> Raise your right hand, please. Do you swear a firm testimony you give up before the board this evening be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
>> I do, Mr. Wy. Go ahead. >> All right. A couple things. Uh, first of all, I'm a member of the community, the marina community. I have a boat there. I'm there all the time. Um, and I just heard a couple things that just kind of uh
wanted me to address. Um, first of all, is it okay if I walk over to the >> Take the microphone, please? You can use this. You can use the one that you're calling guys. >> This
a short cord. All right. That's okay. I got it. I got it. Uh this corner right here coming around was addressed by the uh deputy fire chief um as being a real tight turn. This I don't
believe is a very tight turn. I have personally backed my truck, a 3/4 ton truck with an extended, you know, four doors big long truck with a trailer with a 27 foot parker backed it down there
all the way down here and parked it. So there's no reason that a fire truck couldn't make it around that corner. It's It looks small on here, but it's not small. That's a big That's 20 ft both ways. That's as big as a regular road.
Second thing, the fire hydrant that deputy chief was talking about said was here and he said that he'd have to run a hose all the way around and come all the way down here. But in fact, there's a fire hydrant down
on the corner of Pennsylvania and second, right on the corner of where Queen City Marine signs are. There's sitting one right there. So, that's a straight shot. That couldn't even that couldn't be a better access to get to make it down there. Right.
Those are just a couple things that um kind of sparked me. Uh, the other thing is these spaces are like Matchbox cars. That's right. And the picture up there that they were showing was that they
were on an angle. Well, it's a lot easier to put boats on an angle because you can just back them in with the trailer, right? And you don't have to get you don't have to do the extra effort. But there's no reason that the
boats couldn't be straight just like in this picture. They're on a trailer. And the other the other thing is is he said that the trailer was bigger than the boats. This is a hydraulic trailer. The hydraulic
trailer is not bigger than the boats. The hydraulic trailer is actually smaller than the boats because it has hydraulic arms that go up and pick the boat up. And it fits inside the boat hull. It goes, it's real
narrow. Even the narrowest boat, a 19 ft boat, the trailer is narrower than that boat. So you can pull the boats in here. You can put them inches. So, there's no reason that you couldn't
park all the boats that need to be parked there by parking them closer together because it wasn't parked close together on the photo doesn't mean anything. Um, the other thing I want to talk about is, uh,
I, you know, I know Jeff and Angela, you know, personally and as marina owners, they take care of that marina and they're the best stewards of that marina. It's clean, it's neat,
everybody's everybody loves them that has boats there. And, you know, they're just great people. I want to say that. Um, one other thing is if you're coming down um, third down towards Pennsylvania,
it's all like residential homes and stuff like that, right? And then when you kind of get to the end, it become it has more of like an industrial feel. Don't you think that it would be good for Beach Haven to have homes there? So
as you walk down or as you drove down or walk down whatever you're doing coming down third instead of looking at boats now you're looking at beautiful houses. Isn't that Wouldn't that be a lot better for beach haven? Anyway, those are my
two cents. I just thought I'd throw them in there. >> Good luck with your decisions. I know. >> Um, raise your hand again. Uh, woman in the blue sweatshirt, please step up. >> Ma'am, your name and address for the record.
>> Amanda Pollinger, 16 Southwest Avenue. So, right there. Right. Right in the area that we're talking about. >> Spell your last name, please. P Ul i N G E R >> to raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm that soon before this board will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
>> I do. >> Go ahead. Thank you. >> Um, so I was around when Taylor Swift had her her entrance into the area and of course it caused chaos and I'm not suggesting that this is going to cause chaos, but I think um I I guess my
question is and I just want to be clear because there are a lot of numbers being thrown around. So if there was a night where the restaurant was full and am I am I understanding it's 600 seats in the restaurant is that what was said I'm >> not talking about
>> occupancy I was corrected I had said seats >> okay >> occupancy so how many people does that mean seated 400 people >> um I think that's one of the things that I think is unclear and let's think about how many parking lot parking spaces
there are for that number of people in the restaurant, does that add up? Particularly if you've got a wedding in that facility on the same evening. So, that would really be my that's just a question out there. Is there a balance
here? And and I'm not a planner. Um, but obviously there's a certain amount of space and a certain number of things need to be accommodated. And so in my mind, maybe the owners pick a restaurant
or the houses, but not both. >> Um, the woman in the red or pink. >> Hi, good evening. >> Name and address, please. >> Yes, my name is Britta Forsber. F O R S B E R G and I am the executive director for an organization called Save
Barnagate Bay. >> Save. I'm sorry. >> Save Barnagate Bay. >> You raise your right hand, please. Do you swear affirm the testimony you give before the board this evening will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> And I understand um I haven't been to a
Beach Haven land use board in a while. Uh but it seems you're combining both questions and comments in the same segment. Is that correct? >> Yes, you can ask questions. I don't know if anybody will give you an answer, but you can certainly ask questions and give your comments, please. >> Don't I have the right to cross experts
that pres provided testimony under the land use law? >> You're not an attorney, but if you have a question for one of the witnesses who testified, we'll see what their attorney says and maybe they'll let that witness answer your question. >> Can the public ask questions of the experts?
>> We'll see. Let's go ahead and grab everybody. By the way, there's a lot of people here. Everybody's about three to four minutes. I'm not gonna hold you right to that, but go ahead and we'll see where this takes us. >> Okay. I think we heard some testimony this evening from the applicants, uh, an engineer, a planner, and a traffic
planner, if that's correct. Is one of them a marina operator, manager? You asked that of a lot of public members. You're a operator of a marina. >> Yeah. Not me. Not me personally. Someone here is >> Yeah, I had Miss Marcus come up and
she's a principal owner of the She operates. >> She said she was an owner, but I heard her say that she wasn't a marina operator in terms of operations of the yard. >> Your It's your three minutes. >> Okay. Um, can I have a followup three minutes if I can't get to the bottom of
things? Okay. Thank you. Um, I heard some references about a um, a hanger, a garage, or a storage facility, and I was just wondering if
you're referring to a building on the design plans and whether or not the buildings that you were referring to was either a boat house, a boat basin, or a boat shed or related to any sort of marina operations. Mr. Coleman, you choosing not to have
any of your I'm sorry. I'm trying to take notes of headed. Um I I think Mi Miss Forester, correct? >> Forsber. >> For Forsber, I'm sorry. >> From Forsber's >> Sorry. >> Go ahead.
>> I I I think we um Mr. Stout came up and um uh demonstrated on the plans where the the boat storage or the uh repair. >> It's a boat building. >> Boat building is. Yes. >> I see. And there was a ship store that you referred to
>> that that was previously approved by this board. Yes. >> And the ship store, what does it contain? What is its operational function? >> Uh sells uh marine related uh >> are there marine related things there? >> Yeah. But can I ask you how how is that
gerine to the subdivision that I have? >> How's that germaine to the subdivision of five lots? >> So at the time of the 2017 master plan was prepared the marine property marina property was under one common ownership
and it had I believe additional lots across the street. Is that correct? >> You have a planner I think. I I I didn't represent the prior owner, so I I can't comment on what the prior owner had. >> But you represented these owners when they applied prior to the planning board, right?
>> Uh I Yes. through the ship store and the restaurant. Correct. >> So, some of those lots across the street have since been developed and are no longer part of the current site uh under this context. Correct. >> No. Would you agree that the conditions
underlying the master plan analysis are different today than they were in 2017? >> I'm not a planner and I'm not going to provide planning test. >> Can you identify any specific section of the master plan that analyzes the reduction of the marina or water dependent use on this site?
>> I'm not going to address any prior uses or whether the burrow's code has been revised as a result of the master plan re-examination. From a planning perspective, how do you determine the primary use of a property? You don't have a planner who can
identify the primary use of the property based on that standard. How would you characterize the primary use of this proposed development? So is there an expert testifying on behalf of the applicant or >> I be or planner previously testified
>> planner available to answer some questions or not >> to be cross-examined by you? No, it's not. No. Yeah. >> Okay. Um how about a cumulative loss of marina or water dependent uses in beach haven? Anybody?
>> I'm not sure why. Why? Why? >> You have a subdivision plan that includes residential housing on a marina >> the entire >> in the marine commercial district which was in the planning master plan as a marine commercial district. So you want
me to speculate how um these five lots which is 7 7.95% of the overall property impacts the entire marine water use in the entire burrow of Beach Haven.
>> No, this particular site >> the testimony from the planner was it has no impact on the water dependent use. >> Okay. So I did hear from uh Mr. Lucy who is I believe your environmental consulting engineer
>> or yes >> and he spoke about the water dependent use and he made a statement I'm you know repeating his statement I don't know that it'll be word for word but he said the department of environmental protection said that you could do whatever you wanted to do in that 100
ft. I've never heard the D ever say you could do whatever you want to do in 100 feet of a water dependent use. >> M forward, that was the witness's testimony. Whether it's to be believed by the board or not is a different issue. I'm going to ask you to please sum up because we may have other people here and it's been going on and you've
been given well more than the three minutes allotted. >> Thank you. I appreciate it. >> You're welcome. >> I'd like to raise several concerns regarding both the interpretation of the master plan and the nature of this application. First, the master plan language being relied upon was developed in 2017 under different conditions and
exists today. At that time, the marina was under common ownership with additional lots across the street, some of which have since been developed separately and are no longer a part of the site uh in context. While those properties were not a single unified
tract, they were a part of a broader ownership and planning context that informed the plan at that time. Today, the context has material ch materially changed and what remains is a smaller standalone marina parcel. The master
plan does not appear to analyze the reduction of a water dependent use on this remaining parcel, nor does it evaluate the introduction of residential use in any way that diminishes marina function. That analysis does not exist in the master plan. Second, this
application does not eliminate the marina, but it does reduce its footprint and function while introducing or expanding residential use. That distinction is critical. The question before the board is not whether residential use exists somewhere in the
master plan. The question is whether reducing a water dependent use in favor of a residential development is consistent with the plan's intent. Notably, the master plan identifies a marine commercial district which reflects a clear intent to
preserve and support water dependent uses. That context must be considered alongside any generalized residential language. Speaking from both a professional perspective and a personal experience, I was raised at a boatyard
on Laurigette Bay. Marinas are not interchangeable with residential development. They provide public access and serve a functional role along the bay that once reduced is difficult, if not impossible, to restore. In our formal comments to the D, we
raised these same concerns, including cumulative impacts and the long-term implications of incremental reductions in waterfront uses. Based on the record before the board, there has not been a clear demonstration that this shift in use, reducing a marina in favor of
residential, is consistent with the master plan or the long-term planning framework for this area. This isn't about adding residential. It's about reducing a marina and that analysis does not exist in the master plan. For these reasons, we respectfully request the
board carefully reconsider its reliance on the master plan and fully evaluate the implications of the change before making this action. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Does anyone else in um the meeting room
wish to speak? Sue Sue Sharky 10 North Delaware. >> Raise your right hand, please. You swear from the testimony you give before the board this evening will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Thank you. Go ahead. >> Um I want to say that um like probably a
lot of people in this room. I'm a yearround neighbor of Queen City and I really appreciate the the way you keep it. It's very nice. It's clean. um you've made great improvements and things like that. I'm also a member of
the Marlin Tuna Club and I've I've grew up here, went to Beach Haven School, went here and I think all of us are resistant to change. So, I want to thank the board for these terribly hard decisions that you have because you know we're pavement paradise. Everybody wants
wants the open space and it's it's at other people's cost and maybe legal right because no variances and all that kind of thing. Um so I I don't really have you you know any expertise. I'm not in a position to make any decisions. The
things that stand out to me though I I worry about the bathroom the mobile bathroom. Um, I get the broken pipe issue, but does that mean there, you know, again, 4 inch pipe? Like, are you gonna have these hoses running across? And I just think it might open the door
up because this won't be the last marina that wants to develop or do other things. So, you know, do we want to get in the business of allowing portable potties, permanent permanent semi portable bodies? Um, the other thing
that stands out to me, um, and Bonnie Lenhard said it right in the beginning from me just sitting there and a couple of us, you know, why not move the houses south and then you'd have that gate open, but maybe that's too simplistic a plan. And the last thing has nothing to
do with their application. it it's just a chance for me to say I kind of think the land use board should re-examine the parking requirements because I think I I'm sure you're all thinking the same
thing. I believe one I'm sorry, three marina slips requires just one parking spot. And I I just think that rule is probably antiquated to when, you know,
three guys were biking to their Garvey and now they're mega. you know, as you as we sort of all agree, they're probably larger than 20 foot fit, 25 foot. So, thank you and thank you for these hard decisions for the betterment of our town.
>> M Shark, in response to your last comment, and so for members of the public know, this board has to apply the ordinance as written. The change to the ordinance if it's a deal person is a decision for council, not this board. We apply the ordinances that are in effect at the time the application was filed.
So, that's parking requirement today. I want everybody to know that this board doesn't have the legal ability or authority to change the zoning ordinance or to make a decision because they think the ordinance should read differently than it does. >> I apologize if I misrepresented. I tried
to disqualify you owning it. I just wanted to put it out there. >> I want everybody to understand how it works. We >> if that's a quandry, you guys are it stays in it lane and council has it. >> That's why I said it had nothing to do with >> Thank you, Sue.
Does anybody else in the room have a comment they'd like to make? >> All right, I have a couple people on Zoom. We'll start with Dave. >> Hi. Uh, my name's Dave Shhatz. I live on Center Street. Um, I'm only
>> Raise your right hand. >> Raise your right hand. Your last name. Can you please spell for the record and give me your address again? >> Uh, it's 432 Center Street. 432B Center Street and SHZ S H A TZ and my only >> you swear affirm Mr. Oh, Mr. Shhatz, do
you swear affirm the testimony you give before this board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Uh, absolutely. >> All right. Thank you. Go ahead. I >> I just had a simple question relative to parking issues. Uh, I live right up the street from the whale, the black whale, and everybody knows what that place
looks like on a Friday and Saturday, even sometimes Thursday about 6:00 or 7:00. I mean, people routinely park in front of my driveway uh because at the time when we built our place, uh we were only allowed to put an 8-ft cut in front
of our double wide driveway that was there uh to save parking spaces. And I happen to know as I go past the whale and up to the ship store, and I use the marina and the the the uh the small deli in there and things, and I I like the marina quite a bit. Um, and they I do
think they've done a nice job, but as you go down Pennsylvania Avenue, there's a ton of parking along that side where they're proposing to put those residential homes. Now, if you look at it, this what 270 ft of space all along that side where cars park. And I'm just
curious what what's uh what's the situation going to be like when more and more parking is removed from that area? because it's it can look like it can look really crazy sometimes at night uh with the amount of people coming up from Bird and Betty's and uh that area. So,
I'm only my that's my only concern really is from my perspective is what is the how many parking spaces are going to be lost along that side. I'm sure everybody who's been over there knows what it looks like at night. So, just curious, can they can somebody answer how many spots are going to be removed
from that that section of road? None. >> None. Well, yeah, because a lot of people park there. So, there's definitely there's going to be no parking there because there's going to be homes. >> Your concerns understood. Thank you. >> Yeah, but there are curb cuts. They're
going to be for driveways, right? >> Right. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Yes, there will be curb cuts for driveways for the new home. Yes. >> Yeah. So, parking is going to go there's going to be parking going away. Okay. It's all ahead. No worries. >> Thank you. Theo Lambert.
>> Well, you have to unmute. >> What? >> Can you hear me? >> Oh, thank you, >> M. Mr. For the record, this is Jim Lambert. >> Oh, Jim Lambert. Your address, please. Mr. Lambert. >> Address is 516 North Atlantic Avenue,
Beach Haven. >> Raise your right hand, please. You swear from the testimony you give before this board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Thank you. Go ahead. >> Thank you. Hey, I just want to say the uh the burrow master plan uh has several
comments weaved throughout specific to the marine commercial district that encourage public access to the bayfront and pedestrian activity at the bayfront. And I just don't see how this project satisfies those stated objectives in the burough master plan. And to the
contrary, there's a couple dozen parking spaces on the west side of Pennsylvania Avenue now that are going to be wiped out. um you know if these houses get built. So I just want you to think about consistency with the burough master plan when you vote tonight. Thank you
>> Michael Petroitz. >> Good evening. >> Good evening. Mr. Petitz, can you uh give us your address, please? Uh, my name is Michael Powitz. I live at 37 Jonathan Drive in Beach Haven West.
>> Raise your right hand, please. You swear affirm the testimony give before the board that will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> I do. Thank you for the Thank you for the opportunity to to make a comment. Um, I also want you to know that I am a
member of the Beach Haven, Marlin, and Tuna Club. Um, my role is specifically looking at our facility, our capital planning, and the safety of our facility. Um, I I want to be on the record saying I agree with the
statements and the material that was presented by our Commodore, Eric Cross, and uh, and Brian Casey. Um, pictures speak louder than words. And I and I hope the board recognized
the pictures of the marina facility just very recently. The size of the boats, the way the boats were placed does not in any way, shape or form fit or conform to the
application site plan. There are many more boats on in that marina that are in greater length than 26 ft. It's going to be a nightmare. Um, and you know, I my
my my biggest opposition to this plan, quite honestly, is the safety for those people who have their boats in the marina, for our club, uh, and for the neighbors um, that live in in the area. So, I state my opposition to this
application. Thank you. Thank you, >> Dave Ridley. >> Yep. Hi. Good evening. David Ridley. >> Yes. >> Go ahead. >> David Ridley, 1311 South Beach Avenue in
the burrow of Beach Haven. >> Raise your right hand, please. Do you swear affirm the testimony give before this board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Go ahead, Mr. Ridley. >> I have two comments. One, uh I'd like to
agree with the statements and uh comments raised by Brian Casey and Eric Cross of the Beach Haven Marlin and Tuna Club in that uh and for those reasons, I also oppose this application. Um uh secondly, I would also like to um uh
agree with Miss Forsberg from Safe Baraggets Bay about uh the plan in general's deviations um from waterfront dependent usages. just in in looking at the marina over the last number of years, the
ship store, which was the only store on the south end of Long Beach Island, one of maybe two stores on the entire island that had virtually everything boating related is now food and uh and the
boating stuff that's sold is in a mobile trailer located on the site and is more related to cleaning supplies. So, in effect, what that means is we need to go off island to get any marine parts. Um, secondly,
there's no more fuel being offered. Don't know whether or not that's going to come back, but that's certainly not consistent with, in my opinion, the uh intent of the master plan.
Uh third, the service. I'm not sure if it's even offered anymore, but what was the service garage is now a party, wedding venue, something or other. They certainly don't service boat engines in there to my knowledge any longer or
boats. So, um I could be I could be incorrect about service offering, but it's for those reasons also that I oppose this application. That's all. Thank you. >> Thank you.
K. >> Hello, Christine. Copy. 4253rd Street Beach Haven. >> Could you spell your last name, please? >> K O E P as in Peter E. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Please raise your right hand. You swear
affirm the testimony give before the board this evening will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> All right. Go ahead, ma'am. >> Um, I just, this was brought up very early in the meeting, uh, with regards to the traffic and the study that was
done in 2019. Um, being a lifetime resident of Third Street, I can tell you, um, that's like a lifetime ago. It's precoid when that area was filled with capes. two to four cars maximum per
house. Far fewer people than if you walk up and down any streets within a radius of that area is now homes two to three times the size holding two to three times the people and multiple more cars and vehicles and bikes and animals and
golf carts. And that study, even with the overlay that was explained, which I appreciate, I would like to object and say has to be far far off from the number of people that we watch up and down all day every day, especially from
3 p.m. through 10 p.m. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Is anyone in the room? Oh, sir. >> Nick Pllo, P E R E L L O 18 West 30th Street, Long Beach Township. Um, I am a member. Oh, yeah.
>> Do you swear affirm the testimony before this board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. Um, I spent my entire life growing up in Morrison's Marina before the new ownership took over. Uh we left after the new ownership took over and I won't
really get into why but um I've spent the last eight years as a traveling fisherman from Block Island to the British Virgin Islands. So you could say I'm a quote expert on the topic. Um I do know that when you go out fishing or
boating there's not just one person who's driving to the boat. You have at when I was fishing, I had six guys on the boat all coming from different places and had six cars. With the proposed project here, the the parking
on um the west side of Pennsylvania Avenue, which we use for the Marlin Tuna Club, um which we use for the Junior Mate program for the Beach Haven Charter Fishing Association. Um, if that's all gone and the parking inside the marina
where the boats are usually held uh for winter storage when the boats are in the water, that's used for parking. So now the people that would have to park in the marina are going to have to find other parking throughout the town and won't be able to use the west uh west
side of Pennsylvania Avenue as well. So that's my main concern is it's not just the parking for regular Beach Haven patrons. It's the parking for the people who are in the marina and guests of the marina who are then going to overflow out into the town and we all know how crazy a beach haven weekend night is in
town. So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else in the room? >> Anyone else on Zoom like to speak? >> I don't see anyone else. >> All right. I'm going to make a motion to
close it to the public. Can I have a second? >> Second. >> Was that Mr. Tenquist? >> All right, guys. Any other comments or questions you have? >> I have a question for Frank. >> Sure.
>> Our burrow engineer. Um, the applicant testified that the three-story garage on the plans has now been used as a venue, which is no longer an accessory structure. It has been used for a venue to hold weddings
or whatever has been done there as she testified. That would mean that as your planner suggested that nine additional parking spaces would be necessary for this application. And we know that our code doesn't allow part-time parking.
So, where would these nine additional parking spaces come from? Would the applicant now have to ask for a variance? They testified that this is a venue, not an accessory structure. >> Yeah, definitely. They're going to need would need additional parking. I think I mentioned before, I don't recall that
being part of any prior approval um the use of that building for an ext venues. >> Well, never would be um considered It had so much parking, but now with the subdivision and the application, we have to look at every single thing on these
lots. And in light of the applicant's testimony, this is no longer a full-time accessory structure. This is >> used to operate venues. So now this has to be looked differently. And they need nine, I don't know the exact square
footage. I think the planner said it was approximately 5,000 square feet. They would need nine additional parking spaces which they do not have. >> That's correct. But I also am concerned that that's never been applied for before. And so as far as I knew until tonight,
that was a just a building and accessory structure used for boat repairs. >> Now we know. >> I'm not sure how the board wants to handle that at this point because it's not part of the amended site plan, but it did come to light this evening. Is it your opinion, Mr. little that that
this is not um a full-time accessory structure. >> I'm not sure I understand the question. >> The council president made an assumption um that this is not a full-time accessory structure. Uh I'm not sure what planning credential she has. Um but
I'm going to ask you in your role as I guess board engineer and planner. >> Yes. So, I mean, if it's being used for wedding venues or it needs park >> occasionally. Yeah. And and I think your testimony earlier this evening was is
that there's more than adequate parking on the entire site. >> Yes. So, I guess really the question is you have 86 parking spaces dedicated year round. Mhm. >> Does this now produce another nine and we need 95 spaces year round and we're
not showing 95 spaces available year round? >> Obviously, that could be accommodated if we eliminate some boat storage or rearrange the site. And I'm also concerned that I'm hearing for the first time tonight that this is going to be used for this purpose. And as far as I
know, it was never in a prior site plan approval. I'm sorry, Mr. Little. >> Not going to ask you to repeat that. I'm I'm listening to my client. >> I can repeat it if you >> if you could. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
So my comment was that up until tonight, right, I was I was unaware this was being used as a wedding venue and I don't believe it was ever included in any prior site plan approval. And if it was, there would be an additional nine spaces that need to be available year
round, which would mean at this point, I believe, you'd need 95 spaces, in which case you'd have to eliminate some boat storage or rearrange the parking to accommodate 95 year round spaces. But but wouldn't that assume that the that
that right right now the the it's it's full boats, right? Right now I can represent that it's it's being used for boat storage. Right. >> Right. Okay. >> Right. Um the events were applied through the pro
appropriate zoning officer and permits were pulled for those events. So I'm I'm a little surprised that this is a surprise to the burrow that >> I don't know if it's a surprise to the burrow. It's a surprise to me sitting here tonight. Okay. Not having heard a
prior approval for this activity, >> right? >> I'm not sure what they've done or what they permits they've applied for to allow it uh that would legalize it without board approval. I I think um when when you were speaking previously Frank my client was telling me that we
can more than adequately address 12 additional spaces if that's even a concern on the so it would be a subject to um uh the approval will be subject to me showing 12 additional spaces
>> and that again that'll be up to the board and if you provide those spaces then it works but I I don't know defer to our attorney. Do we have to have an amended plan now recognizing a wedding venue and a boat storage building?
How are we handling this? Mr. Coleman, I think it's a little point as well take. Are you are you asking this board to now grant amended approval to allow your client to hold weddings in what year to four was only being used as
a garage for boat repairs etc. That would then trigger an additional need for additional nine parking spaces because if so that's not been applied to them. Now, if you want to carry the application, amend it again so that the
board could consider that element of relief, that's up to you. But that's not before this board. But that was the testimony and proofs that were put on by your client. >> Yeah. So we we have I haven't heard anything
from anybody that this is not a permitted accessory use. Occasionally uh and the burough would know how many permits were pulled in the course of the summer. Um whether that use now elevates
to a site plan amendment, I'm not sure at this point. um to use a storage building for storage and possibly boat repairs as opposed to a venue to hold weddings and other gatherings. >> Yeah, but it uh >> I mean they're completely different. I
>> I think our our client's testimony was is that it um it serves the um the boat slip owners and the public occasionally during the course of the summer. And that's something that year 24 was not
applied for or approved. >> Um um if I could have five minutes to talk to my client. >> It's getting really late and I know my chairwoman is not going to be happy. >> No, she's not. You're right. >> No, we have another application. It's
9:00 and we're not going beyond 10. That's definite. here for six. >> I I do have a question. I I want to ask Deputy Chief Kuster. >> Bonnie, let's give Mr. Coleman a minute, please. But Tom, please be quick.
>> Yeah. >> All right. >> Yep. >> Just one second. Yes. >> Yeah. >> Mr. Coin, how would you like to proceed? >> Yeah. >> How much? Um, Madame Chair, Mr. Rizo, um, we had
an opportunity to speak with the the deputy chief and I would ask, um, and this was requested by a number of the public that we carry this application so that we have time to clearly identify.
The deputy chief said this evening, just just minutes ago, it's not his fault, that he hasn't had an opportunity to speak directly with the chief about this. Um, we've proposed a second access point and a dry standpipe that would um
address uh potentially address the fire district's concerns to the north. Um, and I think that will also give us opportunity to address um these concerns tonight about an amended site plan. >> Mr. Little,
>> that works fine. >> Mr. Mr. Coleman, I certainly have any objection. Madam Chair, there's been a request by the applicant to carry this application to next month so that they can work out the issue about the second
access point and the dry standpoint with respect to the fire deputy fire chief and the fire chief's concerns. Number one, and number two, to possibly come back with an amended site plan in light of all the comments uh that were made tonight. I think that is a good idea and I think under the circumstances carrying
this application to give the applicant that opportunity is in order. >> Oh, I knew this would happen. Uh, all right. Can I make a motion >> to carry the meeting? >> Can I can I just ask one question? >> Yes. >> Sure. >> Numerous times tonight we've heard
references to the CAFRA permit and approval. Yeah. And I see here, and I'm only I'm relatively new, but there's a whole list of things that were submitted, but I think it would be very helpful if we have all the information by the next hearing because I don't feel comfortable
>> making determinations based on We did that once before and we had an adverse possession thrown at us at the 11th hour. >> Mayor, we most likely we will not have a determination, excuse me, from Caffer by your uh just
May meeting. Um and and that's why Mr. Riso puts in on the last page of every resolution subject to any and all outside approvals. And and if I can't satisfy those outside approvals, I'd be forced to come back to the board and say, "Hey, listen. The XYZ agency didn't
say that I could do this. I need to amend my plan accordingly." >> I understand. Like I said, I see there's several of them, but it's just that it's come up several times. Caffer's been referred to. Yep. >> And it would be nice to have that determination. If Mr. Cohen, if you get it in advance of next month's hearing,
you'll provide it. Yes, >> absolutely. Teresa, >> thank you. >> Can we have a motion to to carry this application to our May meeting, please? >> I did. I made a motion to carry it to May. >> I apologize. >> Second, Cherry. >> Thank you,
>> Mr. Bowville. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Balm Miller. >> Yes. >> Mr. Jenna? >> Yes. >> Mayor Lambert? >> Yes. >> Mrs. Leonard? >> Yes. >> Mr. Lefredo? Yes, >> Mrs. Mason. >> Yes, Mr. Tinquist.
>> Yes. >> And Mr. Winganger. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, Madam Chair, members of the board, >> she may think you can get this 45 minutes. You
can't hear anything. >> No. Bonnie, let me talk to applicants council for the next application. I know it's after 9. >> Yes. the first Monday. >> Um guys, we're not recessed right now.
>> Oh, not you. Not you. Not you. >> Board members. We're not in recess, so please >> see you later. It won't be you. >> What? >> You're done. What? >> You're gone out of the out of there.
>> He's gone to Florida. >> Playing golf. >> Good for you. I'm jealous. >> I thought you were going to stick around longer in the beginning. >> Like, I'm done. I've had it >> already. She was going to be a lawyer.
>> Good luck to you. at the show. >> Who are we waiting on now? Eric. >> Yeah. >> And we had two members step down. >> Eric's talking. >> Trying to see if the next application must start. They're not sure if they're going to finish or not or if they want
to wait and come back. They're concerned now though if they come back they now know that we're gonna have to hear the amended application for city. So I'll go first. >> Yeah. Suggestion. >> I didn't hear you clearly. Move away
from the camera. >> Eric, do you want to speak into here? >> Get in your microphone. >> I'm looking at her like >> Sorry, Bonnie. I'm trying to find out for Mr. Talveia who represents the next applicant if he wants to begin given the
hour or wait and come back next month. >> I think it would be very advantageous to him to wait and come back next month knowing >> the first time you heard that Mr. KC. >> Yes. >> Does he go first or second? >> Well, that's a good question. We set the
agenda. So >> Madam Chair, I I hear you. Um, Nick Tbach on behalf of the >> Would you get a little closer? I'm sorry. >> Is that better? >> Yeah. Thankfully, on behalf of the applicant to Patel's,
um, so we are going to ask that this be carried. We think our application is an hour, hour and 15 minutes. We would ask that we be first on the agenda. We've been waiting our turn. It's their issue that came up tonight that caused them to have to come back. That's not our fault.
So, if if we could be first, we'll we'll try to get out of here as quick as we can. Sounds like their application is much more complicated than ours. So, I would ask that you know, obviously not renoticed and we be first on the agenda.
>> That's a fair request, Madam Chair. Um, and for for members of the public and everyone knows since they're here and they noticed for this evening, if the board's so inclined and we agree, this will be the notice that this application will be heard. This is the
application for Pearl Real Estate Services application number 2026-02 will be heard at our May 4 meeting. No further notice will be required. This is the notice. Uh
uh. Okay. You can be first. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Okay. >> All right. Thanks everyone. Have a good night. Go watch the game. >> Wait. We have a resolution. >> No, we've got a resolution. We're not done. >> We're not finished.
>> I'm done. Here comes your >> All right. Now, we have resolution 2025-1100 Northwest Avenue. Can I have a motion to approve the resolution if there are no questions?
>> Motion to approve the resolution. >> Thank you, Colleen. Second. >> Second. >> Who was that? >> Rick. >> Mr. Winger. >> Oh, thank >> Mr. Bow. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Bowm Miller.
>> Yes. >> Mr. Jenna. >> Yes. >> Mayor Lambert. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Leonard. Yes, >> Mr. Lefredo. >> Yes, >> Mrs. Mason. >> Yes, >> Mr. Tinquist. >> Yes, >> and Mr. Wanger. >> Yes.
>> Thank you. >> All right. Can I have a motion that says public comment under just anybody get sick? >> Go ahead and open it real quick. There's one one member here. There's some people on Zoom. Bonnie, >> I I know that it says public comment. Am
I opening it to public comment again? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Can I have a motion to open it to public comment? >> I motion open the public comment. >> Second. >> Thank you. Is there anybody
>> that has anything they want to say to us tonight before we close and adjourn? >> Anybody on Zoom? >> I don't see anyone on Zoom. Motion public. >> There's nobody on.
>> Okay. Motion to close to the public. >> I make a motion. Somebody >> now. Can I have a motion to adjourn our lovely meeting? >> I make a motion to adjourn the meeting. Jamie. >> Second.
>> Good night everybody. >> Good night. Thank you. >> I know. I agree. >> Thanks for all staying.