looking at the other look at looking at ship. >> Welcome everyone to the land use board meeting of August 3rd, 2026. We will begin by standing and saluting our flag. >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Pursuant to the New Jersey Open Public Meetings Act, adequate and electronic
notice of this meeting has been provided by posting on the bulletin board in the Beach Haven Municipal Building and on the legal notices page and land use board pages of the Burough website, filing a copy with the Burough Clerk, and mailing the same to the Beach Haven Times and the Asbury Park Press. This
meeting is a judicial proceeding. Any questions or comments must be limited to issues that are relevant to what the board may legally consider in reaching a decision for each individual application. The quorum appropriate to a judicial hearing must be maintained at all times.
Mr. Bow >> here. >> Mr. Mrs. Bow Miller >> here. >> Mr. Jenna >> here. >> Mayor Lambert >> here. Mrs. Leonard >> here. >> Mr. Lefredo >> here.
>> Mrs. Mason >> here. >> Mr. Tinquist >> here. >> Mr. Fer >> here. >> Miss Parker >> here. >> Mr. Aello >> here. >> Mr. Lubis >> here.
>> And Mr. Gindell. >> All right. Moving along. Tonight we have approval of the minutes for the July 6 meeting, the regular meeting, and the executive session. Can I have a motion to approve both of those? >> Motion to approve. Jerry, >> second, Colleen.
>> Thank you. All in favor? >> I opposed. What is that? A nay or yay? [laughter] Um, approval of the minutes is passed. Next, we have approval of the bills. didn't see. Did somebody say nay to the
minutes or somebody said >> I think she said yay. It was J. It was Sherry. >> Sherry, did you say yes or no to the minutes? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. Next, we have approval of the bills for $3,36057.
Got a motion to approve the bills. >> I make a motion, Al. >> Second. >> Second, Rick. Thank you. All in favor say yay. >> Opposed. >> Okay. Bills are approved.
>> Uh then we have approval of bond returns address 101 Fifth Street Raven and Raven amount of $1,862.82 for application 20251. And I have a motion to approve the bond return.
Motion to approve. Colleen >> second. >> Second, Rick. >> Thank you. All in favor? >> I opposed. >> Okay. The approval has been approved. A return. All right. Now to our first
unfinished business and public hearing. We have the continuation of 6012nd Street, MIH Coastal Holdings LLC, preliminary and final major subdivision approval and amended site plan approval. Subdivision of a 27,000 square ft
portion of a 353,775 square foot property to create five lots to be developed with single family detached residential dwellings. Madam, Madam Chair, thank you. Um Tom Coleman of the firm of Raymond Coleman and Highold appearing on behalf of Mi
Mih Coastal Holdings. Um as the chair accurately stated, this is a continuation of the April 6th and May 4th uh hearings. At the May 4th hearing, there was um significant discussion about the
[clears throat] amount of parking and with with the assistance of Mr. little and Mr. Stout. Um, this evening we went back and revised uh the plans accordingly so that we would address both inseason and offseason parking and [clears throat] and Mr. Stout's
office submitted revised plans on May 28th um that addressed those parking concerns. Um, it also uh addressed uh the the the downsizing of the restaurant structure which uh which will hopefully
here at the board in September that that's not before the board this evening. We filed a second application. So, we're here just for the subdivision application. [clears throat] Um, we're we're not waving any rights um
with respect to the prior 17,54 square ft restaurant that's previously approved, an amended site plan or the extension of that or even the site plan approval for the new 7500 smaller scale restaurant. >> [snorts]
>> Um I'd also like if I might just because we have a lot of members of the public with respect to those issues you just raised about the restaurant the prior approval there were the request for an extension the smaller restaurant that was addressed by Mr. out and the revised
plans are made. We're [clears throat] not hearing that tonight. As you stated, just for I want everybody from that's here tonight from the public and I want the board to understand what we're hearing tonight [laughter] is the continuation and [clears throat] perhaps the completion of Queen City Maria's
application for the subdivision to to develop divide that parcel property as the chair said into um it's now five five residential lots. We are not hearing the restaurant. So, please don't ask questions of witnesses
about the restaurant. Please don't make public comment about the restaurant. That will be addressed at our September meeting. This is the continuation of the application for the residential subdivision. >> Thank you, Mr. Re. >> And Mr. Coleman, just one matter of
housekeeping. Miss Mason was not here at our May 4 meeting. She has listened to the recording and transcript. I've prepared the appropriate certification. If [clears throat] we get to a vote tonight, I'll have her sign that and get that to you. >> Thank you, Mr. Russo. >> Ju just one other bit of housekeeping. I
I know the mayor um mentioned or questioned uh at the last multiple hearings about um where do we stand with um D filings and approval and and mayor
on July 23rd of this year, the applicant received waterfront development permit approval and CAFRA uh permit as well as a uh DP permit plan. um for this particular project.
Um members of the board, when we last left off in May 4th, we were right at the point where there was the the concern about parking, but we we're at the threshold of opening it to the public. Um I have Mr. Stout here this
evening, and I'd like to bring Bob back up just to talk about the revised plans and to refresh the board as to where we stand with the application. not not going to belabor the point, but I think it's important to have Bob come back up this evening. Um Bob, [clears throat]
>> sure. >> Mr. Stout, I know you been previously sworn by me at the prior hearings, but for purposes of so there are no issues, I'm going to swear again. >> You swear affirm the testimony give before the board this evening will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Thank you.
Um, Bob, with that introduction, um, I'm gonna just can you summarize your prior testimony as it relates to the subdivision, please? Sure. >> All right. So, just let me do this. Let me grab your just walk over here. >> Okay. So, what we have done, just to
reorient everyone, we're proposing to carve off five of the lots that are shown here in the green on Pennsylvania Avenue just north of Third Street. So, what we're doing is creating five byite lots. These lots meet every criteria in
your requirements for that. They have a 60% impervious coverage maximum. They have your required three parking spaces within the with and the outside of the the buildings themselves. What we're also proposing to do is buffering around all three sides. So, it'll be buffered
along the back towards the marina to the north towards the uh Marlin and Tuna Club and to the south towards the uh remaining parcels within the building itself, the MIH facility itself. U so one of the questions and comments that we talked about last time was the
parking. Uh the parking is based on the building square footage that is on site along with the number of slips that are here. So the required parking is 93 parking spaces. So what we have during peak season is 138 parking spaces. So 93
is required. 138 is what we're proposing. Now that also includes six electric vehicle spaces. Now with the new rules for the electric vehicle, those count as double spaces. these count as two for every parking space that you put in. We didn't even count
that. So, this is 93 actual parking spaces where that's required. So, a couple of the things that have come up on the last application and things we've done to clean that up is there is some uh boat storage areas. Uh one of the
things that has been questioned was making sure that we had fire access to that. So, what we have is down Third Street directly in line with that is a 20 foot wide area. We have 20 foot wide all the way along the front of the bulkhead all the way around and along
the north side as well as an access drive along the south side. Those are all 20 foot and larger in area and they all have large enough radiuses for those. In your plans on the last sheet, we actually have what they call an auto
turn template. It shows the fire truck that we got from your fire official and it shows the movements that they do. So all these movements can be done without any issues as part of the fire safety on there. Again, the white sections that
you see on here are the winter boat storage potential areas. We're showing 109 spaces throughout this entire site. The D requirement is only 93. So we're showing extra spaces than what the D is required. So we do have an abundance of
that as well. Now, as far as the off- peak areas, one of the questions and things that had come up and in Mr. Lil's letter last month was or couple months ago was we all had agreed that 93 spaces were what was required during off peak.
So, what we've done is we've reoriented these. So, we are now proposing 93 spaces off peak season. Even though there's no boats in here, even though a lot of this stuff is not being used, 93 is what's required. uh it was asked for and that's what we're proposing for
that. And again 93 is what's here. We also have the EV spaces again that counts for two for everyone. So technically we have 99 93 spaces there. Uh the changes that we made from I guess the the last iteration were we had
originally shown a fire line. We were proposing that to be a dry fire line uh with a hookup directly uh opposite the fire hydrant. The fire officials report was, "Can we make that a actual fire line?" So you asked, "We have." So we've
done a wet tap right off of Pennsylvania Avenue. Uh we've ran that line and we've ran a fire hydrant to the very most remote corner in here. So this entire section will be an actual fire line. So there's no issues with dry fire lines needing to bring water in for any reason
for that. Uh the the last thing we really had done was uh as part of beautifification of that, we've added approximately 3,000 square feet of evergreen buffering right across from Burden Betty's uh along the proposed parking area down to the south side as
well. So that's really what we've brought back to everything. What I can really want to reiterate is there's no variances here. Everything that we're showing you here is per your code. We've met the parking. We've met the landscaping. We've met the the
building coverages. Right now, the entire site is 100% impervious. 100%. That's well above your code. By doing that, we've eliminated this to 60%. And by adding this, the overall impervious drops from 100% to 90.4%. So, we're
dropping 10 almost 10% impervious coverage [clears throat] for that. So, again, Mr. Coleman said we do have our D permit. Uh we are really close on the soil erosion permit. We've made that application. We've got revisions sent them back in. So we expect that to be
done any day. So that would take care of everything that we have to date. That brings us to date. >> Thank you for your testimony. Do you have an opportunity to [snorts] review the July 30? >> I have
And there were certain recommendations in that letter address those again not requirements but request. >> The answer is yes we can. Um the request is for a 20 foot clear span drive aisle and that's what we have directly
opposite Third Street and then the driver lane along the front of the bulkhead that is also 20 ft at a minimum point. It gets wider down at the lower section. So that is full movement in here. There's more than enough room for a 25 foot radius, which is what was
requested. And again, on the last page of your uh plans, we did what they call an auto turn. So all the traffic engineers use that for modeling the movements of the vehicles. And that's shown as more than enough clearance. And in addition, we've got the wet stand
that's being added. That's >> correct. That is actually going to be a fire line. [clears throat] >> This is >> Yes, this is we'll label this as A6. This would be a colorized rendering of the overall site plan that you have in
your package today. So, it's the exact same thing just colorized. >> Mr. St. is there anything further that you'd like to pass through? >> Um, like I said, everything here is per the code for the MC zone. We meet all
the requirements. We meet all the standards. >> Can I ask a question please about the buffer? the [clears throat] buffer on the west side in the rear of the residential homes. Why is it on the inside of the property line? I was under the assumption that per our code that a buffer would have to [clears throat] be
in between the the parking lot and the property line, but that buffer on the rear is inside the property line, not outside the property line. >> We This is where we had put it originally and that's where we've had it from day one. I didn't think there was any kind of differentiation between the
two. We put it here as an added buffer >> because it >> the buffer's on the the the lots in the lots >> the rear of what if a homeowner >> what if they die homeowner knocks them cuts them down or >> I'm sure from a buffer if it's a
required buffer could be deed restricted >> yeah and then the other two the side buffers are on the >> right the side right the the north and the south but the west side Frank even in your letter it says uh five feet in width shall be provided between the
parking lot curve and the property line. >> So that's not in that's in the property. That's not on the property. >> That is correct. >> So if that was moved then we would have some issues then with the 20 foot fire lane. >> No, we can we would be able to again one of the pluses we have is because of the
fact that we have extra storage spaces from what the D has required. If we needed to move that, we have the ability to do that. It won't be an issue because we'll make a restriction of >> Mr. Coleman, you took the words out of mouth. You put your client agree to that
as a conditional rule. >> What about moving the buffer to the other side of the property line? >> Looking at it, we could we could do that. >> You'll work with the board's engineer with respect to that, Mr. St. >> We will. And and one of the plus too, right now we show this is 10 foot wide.
Your requirement is 5T. So even if we move that back a little bit, we could reduce that. We did this as a larger buffer with some larger trees. >> Is that area still restricted for water dependent uses on those properties? >> No, the D was had moved the line based
on these residential. So this came up into this section. So they basically took this water around. >> So the rear of the properties can be used to put a pool in or something like that. >> Correct. Correct. There's no restrictions that I'm aware of on this. The permit doesn't say we can't. Again,
what we've done is use this as 60% impervious. So, right now, this is about this is showing right now about 48% what you see here. Let's just take this first lap. Let me do this. Let me move up to the next one. It's a little bit bigger. Blow up.
Frank, >> would you mind moving the microphone closer to you just for my recording? Thank you. but not right now. Yes. And and all this is is the exact same view you just saw on the last one, just blown up so it's a little bit easier to see. So, uh what I was just
about to talk about, Frank, you had asked about pools and auxiliary structures. What we did is maxed out the houses and the sizes. This is about 49%. Let's just take that one lot. 49% is what's shown. So they have another 10 11% that they could put pool spa
whatever they needed to put in there just as long as they stayed under the 60%. But basically if you leave you're you're proposing a 10-ft buffer if it's on the residential properties which kind of takes 10 feet out of their backyard. If you put it on the marina side it's
only going to have to be five feet. So, it's really going to be a choice for the board to make. Uh, if they're going to deed restrict the property and require the 10 feet, then [clears throat] that would be code enforcement as Eric mentioned. Or if you don't want it on those properties, the
requirement is only five feet if they put it inside the marina. So, just keep that in mind as we go through this that it'll be your choice. Where's the bathroom now on the on the plants? Is this still a mobile bathroom? >> It is. Uh, you really can't see. It's
not shade here. This is a mobile bathroom. We have it shown here just as a holding spot. Again, since it's mobile, it could be moved around. >> Excuse me. Would you mind just stating your name for the record? >> The photo. >> And the mobile bathroom, is it available
in the winter? >> No. No. I don't believe >> have a use for it in the winter. >> There's nobody there >> there. It's basically just storage. So, no, this this can be moved to wherever it is. [clears throat] It's going to be generally in this area. So, that's where it would stay and it's out of the way.
It keeps everything far enough away from the residential closest to the commercial. Let's call it the commercial portion of it. >> Tom, we're not going to be able to hear you. I know it's hard. >> Is this one not working? See if I can bring both.
>> Just have to bring it back back for uh public comment or other questions. >> Thank you. Madam Chair, we don't have >> I have one question about this old bathroom. >> Is it in ground sewer lines for that? How would they handle that?
>> Yes, it is. It's a right now we are running a sewer lateral up to it. We'll have a clean out and a cut off for it. So it'll be hooked up once. When it's done it cuts off, it'll be shut off and red. >> And what happens with these mobile bathrooms if there's a storm? Do they
float away? Are they attached? I mean, what's a mobile mean? >> They are, and I'm not the expert on the mobile bathroom, so I can't tell you exactly what they're made of, but they do have to meet uh current codes. So they're going to have to get a building permit for that. It'll have to meet all the local registration and codes.
>> So then why are they called mobile? >> Because it can be moved as opposed to >> like a trailer. You're saying they're like a trailer. >> Chatterfest. You got it under. >> It's got to be very similar to Chatterfest. >> Okay. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. Madam Chair, we we have no further testimony. So, we'll defer to the board. Um, [clears throat] as we've done before and given the number of people here and on Zoom, does anyone have any questions for Mr.
Stout? Questions? This is not public comment time. That will happen later tonight hopefully. But does anybody have any questions for the applicants engineer, Mr. Stout, who just testified? Because, as I understand it, if Mr. Mr.
Coleman changes his mind for any reason. His client he they've now concluded the testimony in support of this subdivision application. So, does anybody Mr. Went, good evening to see you. >> Um, do you have any questions >> for Mr. Stout? >> No. Okay.
>> Does anybody from the public have any questions for Mr. Stout? >> How about let's start here in the room. If you do, please raise your hand and come forward. >> Does anyone on Zoom have any questions for Mr. staff, the applicants engineer. If so, please raise your hand and you'll
be recognized. >> No, I don't see anyone on Zoom. >> Okay. No one. >> Wait, is someone in the audience here? >> No. No. >> She has a question. >> I can still ask a question. Correct.
>> My name is um speaker, please. >> Thank you. Sure. >> Your name and address. >> My name is Brida Foresburg and I'm the executive director of Save Barnet Bay, but I'm here individually. Address 117
Hannes Road, Tom's River, New Jersey. I'm sorry, but I walked in late. Had a little trouble with traffic getting here, so I was just looking for a point of clarity. Um, we heard from the applicant's engineer. I was here at a prior meeting. Is there more testimony this evening from?
>> There was >> I missed it all already in the first five minutes. >> Yes, you did. [gasps] [laughter] >> All right. And I attempted to ask some questions at the prior meeting. Um, and I had a couple of additional. Is it okay if I ask them now? >> Sure. >> I'm not sure if they're appropriate for
the gentleman just miss. But as I said, this is the time to question the applicant's engineer. Comments about the application in general. We'll get there. No comments. If you want to question the applicants engineer, Mr. Stout, now's the time to do it. Thank you. >> You're welcome.
>> I was wondering um if there was testimony from the engineer that related to whether or not this development was consistent with the burough's master plan. >> I'm sorry, with the what? >> Burough's master plan. >> Master plan. >> Stating that it was consistent with the
master plan. >> Uh m Miss Forsber, uh our planning engineer, Mr. Miller, was here in April. Um and he was abundantly clear that it's consistent with the master plan and consistent with uh and a permitted use
so that the master plan and the zoning ordinance match up perfectly. >> I was wondering if you could identify the specific goals, objectives or policies of the master plan that support that conclusion. >> That witness isn't here, man. Mr. Stout
here is the engineer. The planner did not testify this evening. He testified at a prior hearing. >> Okay. So, the engineer didn't testify to anything regarding the master plan this evening. >> He did not. No. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome.
>> Have a question for Mr. Staff. [clears throat] Come on up. >> Your name, please. Add [clears throat] >> Carl Anderson, 425 Third Street. Like to ask the traffic uh guy expert. This traffic study is based on a 2019 study
and those hours were Friday from 4:00 to 7:00 and Saturday from uh 11 to 2. Uh does that study evaluate all the commercial traffic at other times of the year at this place and uh at this operation and u or was it based on the
residential subdivision handle the commercial traffic? >> So Mr. Anderson um um Mr. Stout um is here as the as the engineer. He's not the traffic engineer uh in April. Uh our
[snorts] traffic engineer, Mr. Shockshshire, was here and he addressed uh the off season and the the timing of that and I'm certainly not going to revisit Mr. Shshire's testimony, but I believe don't want to put words in the
board's mouth. I believe he explained adequately to the board uh about the discrepancy in in the dates and time. >> Well, it's a big discrepancy because it's summertime and the traffic is insane that those hours and when they did the study in 2019, that's a completely different argument to what
we're dealing with today. >> Right. And I'm not going to debate you, Mr. Anderson, but the testimony of Mr. shoper was that there was no or negligible impact on the off-site traffic conditions. Period.
>> Okay. Typical. >> Thank you. >> Okay, folks. Let me say this right now because we're going to get the public comment. We don't need those kinds of remarks. They're not necessary. They're not appropriate. The applicant has the right to put on the applicant's case and testimony. The public has the right to
comment. I please, please, we need to have some decorum. There's no need for anybody to get upset or make snide remarks. We've been going at this. This is our third hearing and I can see a lot of people here tonight and a lot of people on Zoom. So, let's keep this professional on both sides, please. Does
anyone else have any questions for Mr. Staff this evening? [clears throat] >> No. >> Um, no. raise your electronic hand or raise turn on your camera and raise your hand physically if [clears throat] you can't
do that. >> I don't see anyone. >> Mr. Coleman, do you have anything further in support of this application? >> I I do not. Mr. Russo, thank you. [clears throat] >> Hey, Eric. >> Yes, Mr. >> I had just a question for him also. Sorry. >> Question. I know you said specifically
the five lots met all the required codes and all that. Does the boat storage also meet all the required codes as far as you know access for all of that? >> The >> I know you satisfied the fire department's request and all that. >> Yes, the the boat storage requirement is
a D requirement and it does meet their requirement. That's exactly from theirs. They have approved this as we shown and as I said they actually approved it at 93 spaces. We have 109. So we actually show an abundance of additional spaces there. So we do meet that. One of the
things that we did do and one of the board's biggest concern was the fire safety and that was one of the things we focused on by making sure they had an alleyway a dedicated 20 foot light of way and I think we had agreed to deed restrict those areas. Yeah. Because I I had brought up two issues that didn't
get addressed and you know you guys are the designers of record but one of them was my understanding of fire hydrants the maximum distance between is 400 ft based on NFPA. Um, so that's a question for you as a designer. I'm not the designer by any
means. And then the >> I >> the other issue is the maximum that you could have as far as a dead end space we can call it without a turnaround would be uh like 150 ft. So next to that is RSIS standards for that sections. I'm
not familiar with any kind of fire requirement for that. I know it was brought up before, but that was one of the reasons we did put the fire hydrant in here. So there's full access to all of that. So we we'd be okay maybe a statement if it's okay to ask out just a statement that it's not required
>> what you know by the >> Mr. W the county fire marshal is here so if I he's written a report and perhaps you could enlighten us issue >> great and Mr. Wanger it's it's important to note that the burrow has no guidelines
or standards as it relates to boat storage other than it can't be more than two boats high period. It's it's it's a D standard and requirement. >> Okay. Just >> I I had a question Gary Lefredo. Um can you talk about impervious coverage
again? Is there any variance needed for impervious coverage? >> Uh no. >> Even though it's >> technically it's it's all gravel parking area. It's all 100%. So they're reducing it down to what they say 90.4.
>> It's 100% considered 100%. Yeah. Imperverous. But so we just because it was out of code and they're requesting this doesn't have to be within they don't have to meet the code.
>> It was a marina so you park cars, you park boats and it was a pre-existing condition. Now they're going to reduce it to 90.4 by putting the five houses informing to the ordinance for the homes. But then the D considers it 100%
also >> and the board recognized that two and a half years ago that condition at that time it was 100% at that point and we were granted a variance for the pre-existing non-conforming and as Mr. Stat testified we're taking that down to
approximately 90%. So we're improving the condition. So they got a they had to get a variance at one point and that variance holds now even though they're doing this >> I believe so because it's an existing non-conforming or use [snorts] not use but condition [clears throat] >> condition
>> and they're reducing it they don't need a variance >> they do not need a variance for improve coverage they're actually reducing the pre-existing condition >> Mr. Stout, I have one more question. Um, we do have an ordinance about suitability of lots and in that
ordinance it mentions if there's any factors such as rock formations, flood conditions or similar circumstances to um about the suitability of these five lots here and considering that this has been a marina for the last 75 years, I
don't know the exact date, I apologize. The types of activities on those five lots would you agree include um you know painting, sanding, fuel operations, anything along those lines. Has there
been any testing on those five lots to see if there has been if these lots are suitable for actual construction? I can't imagine what's in that soil. We we have not we have not done any
testing for that. There's no requirement for that. U I >> Right. Right. I was just mentioning because it is you know we do have an ordinance for suitability of um new lots and considering this it has been historically a marina requirements 75
years ago were a lot different than different environmental concerns now. and just all of the, you know, anti- anti-alling, paints, sanding, all of those things have now have, you know, taken residence in that soil for the past 75 years. So, I was just wondering
if there's any have been any soil testing, water testing, or any other things that could kind of help us move along with that these lots are even suitable for development. >> There has not been on has been any testing for that. There there has been
phase one and phase two. [snorts] >> They've been submitted in conjun conjunction with the application. Mr. Coleman, we >> we we can submit them. It wasn't a requirement of submission, but you have we can certainly submit them. >> You'll submit them as part as a condition of approval.
>> Yes. >> Yes. Right. >> And and Miss Bmer, I you know, I appreciate the concern, but um there hasn't been any testimony or or any question from your board engineer or planner about the suitability of these
lots. I suspect this goes back to the emails that you shared with Mr. Little back in February uh of this year about the suitability. Um I thought that issue was behind us but um again there's been no testimony
or evidence presented here questioning the suitability of these lots. Certainly certainly willing to offer the phase one and two but um I I don't believe that ordinance is applicable here. >> The phase two that was a soil sampling on where the lots are
>> correct. >> You know for a fact there where the lots were soil sampling. Anything else Mr. Coleman [snorts] there's no further questions for Mr. Stout then I think Mr. W would like to discuss this case
so regarding the phase one and phase two engineering studies we had heard some prior testimony I believe from another developer actually um about about that from the site. And all I would suggest to the board is that
um we're going to vote tonight on an approval [snorts] for this these lots is that it should be subject to the phase one and two reports being clean. >> But that's the testimony and they will be submitted as a conditional approval. That's what Mr. Coleman just told us.
Okay. Mr. Way, members of the board, good evening. My name is Ray Went with the Wet Law Firm. I represent the Beach Haven Marlin Tuna Club. Uh we were here earlier. I handed out a packet of exhibits, uh objection, exhibits 01
through 09. We have some additional exhibits this evening, 010 through 017. Like to hand those out first and then call up a few witnesses. is try to move as expeditiously as possible. And if I may be permitted to share my
screen for the Zoom viewers. >> Sure. that [laughter] [snorts] way. That's sweet. your patience. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
[snorts] So just as a reminder again, we went through a number of exhibits last meeting 01 through 09. I hope you still have your packets. Uh they are available electronically if anybody has any questions. is facing a testimony tonight. We'll be referring back to some of those uh particularly with respect to
John Mel who has a marine experience. It's going to explain why this really can't work. [snorts] Uh there's a lot of activity going on in this property and we did a lot of research and the representation that was made uh about the occasional event
or wedding is there's nothing further from the truth. Um there are weddings every weekend. um at least 100 people up to 300 people. Um and you'll see through the the applicant's own social media posts and through Oprah requests, the
intensity of the multiple uses on this property is a problem. Um in addition to the fact that the plan in of itself, even if you take the events out, just cannot work in terms of operating a marina in a safe manner.
>> [snorts] >> So share here. So, looking at what we've brought this evening, uh, exhibit 010 is the over request, and it is many, many pages of of applications by the
applicant for events. And again, um, there was a wedding every day in June. There are at least four more applications pending for future weddings. Um, there's been no hesitation whatsoever to keep this operation moving uh, at breakneck speed. and at full
capacity. Uh what we did through these exhibits and I only attached a few of the exhibits to your packets. I didn't want to kill the whole forest for this. The entirety of our Oprah submission or our OPRA request and the documents we
received from the township are contained in what I handed to your board secretary. I will also hand the flash drive to the secretary. I have a full copy and the applicant's attorney has a full copy as he's entitled to have. [clears throat] But you're going to see flipping through that and I've highlighted and I have just one the most
recent Oprah uh permit obtained through Oprah showing 150 guest count. Um it is um a weekly operation at the very least. It is not occasional and the if we were just talking about somebody that was operating a marina,
boat slips, rentals [clears throat] and and the usual marine operation, that'd be one thing. And again, we still have a a problem with how that's going to run in and of itself, >> but the applicant the applicant has seen fit to do whatever they can to maximize
profit out of this property. Now, there's nothing wrong with that except in so far as you only can do so many things with the space that you have. And with respect to um also these permits, just for the record, we have as
01 the ABC permit applications which which don't really line up with the applications for the weddings for some reason, [clears throat] but they are part of um our submission. And again, turning to the social media posts, and this isn't ours. This is this is the
applicant's social media. um as recently as July 10th um and I'm sure there have been some since then just constant postings of this is this is your wedding venue um
showing areas of the property that are supposedly not going to exist after this application is done. I don't know how that works when you plan weddings months in advance, but it's still there. And we have uh 50 54 screenshots alone of just the weddings.
And we had a concerned neighbor contact the applicant when the applicant at least seemed to imply that they weren't going to be doing the weddings much more. and she sent an email and received an email right back saying,
"Give us your information. We'll let you know what's available." And we marked that as exhibit 013. [snorts] We more recently had um a neighbor named Mrs. Pullinger obtain, and I didn't ask her to do this. She she [clears throat] texted me these photographs that she
took on June 19th of the wedding venue. Um, these are [clears throat] dated June 19th by Miss Pier. I'm not sure if she's here tonight, but I can testify. I I can attest to you that this is something that she forwarded to me
>> just to give you an idea of the size. >> Well, we you can't testify. This person's not here. So, please don't testify. >> She's online. >> Okay. Well, >> Miss Pinger, are you online? >> This will take more time. >> Yes, I'm online. Yes, I'm online. Can you hear me? If I can't, you can.
>> Yes, we can hear you. >> This is good for this. >> Pulling. >> Yes. >> Hi. Uh I I just introduced the photographs uh that I just said that you sent to me. I'm going to flip through these. >> Can you authenticate that these are the photographs that you took of
>> um the marina property uh that was set up for a wedding venue? How about if we have this person sworn in first? >> Yes. >> Did you have you have to be sworn in first? Sorry, I missed that. >> Oh, sorry. talk about for the record exhibit 15, Mr. W. >> Oh, 15. Yes. >> You'd like to call Miss Corner as a
witness in your conjunction with your case in opposition to this application? >> Yes. For purposes of authenticating these photographs, she may have additional testimony. She's not my client. She's I don't even think she's a member of the club. Um, >> you want to call as a witness? That's up to you. >> As long as it doesn't preclude her right
to testify otherwise on her own afterwards. >> I never suggested that. That would be the case. But if you want to call her, that's fine. I'd ask that you stop sharing your screen screen that she come out on video and let me swear in and then you can ask whatever questions you know. >> I would like to do so please.
>> Sorry I'm just closing the curtains because it's rather dark rather bright. Okay. [snorts] >> Good evening. Pulling please raise your right hand. >> You swear from the testimony we'll give before this board this evening will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
>> Yes. >> Okay. Go ahead. Miss Pullinger, as we were saying earlier before you were sworn in, uh you recently texted me some photographs, uh that you took of the Marina property sta setting up, uh the staging area for a wedding event. Is that correct?
>> Yes. >> Okay. And I'm going to pull up those photos and share those again with the board and the viewing audience. And I'm going to flip through these and ask you if these are an accurate depiction of the or if these are the
>> photo that's the setup area. That's just the setup area. It was a massive wedding which which the which apparently the the council has approved. Um but it's interesting because I asked the two people who were sitting in there, oh what's going on here? And they said, oh
no, it's a very small private event. But when I asked the caterers, they said, "Oh, it's going to be a massive wedding here." But apparently the the council the council approved it. So, um, you know, but it was a massive it was a
massive wedding. And, um, and it was the same weekend that I took pictures of a $20 per parking inside of this venue uh, for people who wanted to park their car that weekend. So, goodness knows how goodness knows where all the guests
parked, but they were charging $20 in addition to the wedding inside the property. But I was told I was when I went into the council to to to show these photos, I was told that wasn't [clears throat] an issue. That the bigger issue, and I don't know whether
you have these other photos. I was going to wait until we were able to ask questions. The bigger issue was that I was told that the boat shed would not be allowed to have people in tables and chairs. And I've got at least two sets of photographs of events with food and
drink happening inside the boat shed. And also a mobile um taco taco truck, which I was told was not allowed either. But the wedding itself, I was told those were approved th that that was approved
by the council. Even though I brought it up at the last meeting and there was a sense that it was going to be shut down. They weren't going to have more weddings. >> When [snorts] you when you say the vote shifted, I've just pulled up 012. >> Exactly. I I was told that I was told by
the by the council when I went into the to the to the to the burough that that building is not allowed to have food and drink inside of it. And I have photos from two separate occasions of um of people eating and drinking inside that
shed this summer. >> Well, I don't have those, so you'll have to present those during your your own testimony outside [clears throat] of my presentation. I mean, unless the board wants to see those now. >> But the but the other photos of the wedding I did take. Um and I was told by whoever was running the thing, oh no,
this is just a small party. But it was a massive event on a very very busy weekend. Okay, >> Mr. Went, just for the record, the council did not approve this. She was in the building department. The council did not
>> Sure. It was a permit application. I understood it wasn't like a formal city council >> resolution or anything like of the sort. >> Thank you. >> Um, but that's a important point to clarify for the record. >> Minger, that's all I have for my
presentation in terms of your participation. I just want to get through the rest of these and then I'd like to call um John Mello up to >> testify. Order Mr. Mr. Coleman, do you have any cross-examination for that witness? >> I I don't Mr. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Okay, Mr. W. >> Thank you. In addition to the u online postings uh and social media that we saw from the applicant with respect to weddings, there were a number of other events that are promoted uh as well. So
again, there's there's nothing necessarily wrong with having events except in so far as is you're you're you're putting 10 lbs of potatoes in a 5 lb sack. You're just doing too much on the same property. Um so what we've attached as exhibits 016 again are
screenshots from the applicant's own um Google postings and social media [clears throat] uh indicating the various events they do in addition to uh the weddings at the site. Again, that's 016.
And the last exhibit um that we will introduce later, and it'll be through the testimony of Eric Cross, is some photographs of some sea containers that are on the property that have not been addressed. Uh we believe that you that to your satisfaction and certainly not to ours. Um and um again, there's a
serious storage issue. We think that there are discrepancies with what's actually being stored in the way of the number of boats, the size of boats, how they can be stored, which configuration um as compared to what's being presented to this board and as compared to what was presented to Caffer. And we know
that Caffer is not your jurisdiction. However, the safe operation of the marina is, and as I cited in the case law previously, even though there may not be any technical variances to this application, you do have the ability to to deny this application based on public
safety, based on traffic concerns based on the health, welfare, and safety generally. You have the power to deny this where somebody comes in, even though it's not a variance application, it's just too much. So, please keep that in mind. That discretion is yours this
evening. Um, with that, I think I would like to call John Madall up to be sworn in. >> How you doing? >> Your your last name. >> Mandeli. M O N D E L L I >> raise your right hand. You swear upon
the testimony you give before the board this evening where the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Mr. If you would put forward ple please tell them briefly um but so they get the gist of what your experiences in
Marinas. >> Sure. Currently I'm the general manager for Marine Max. We have 75 locations throughout the country. I manage the one in Brandt Beach here on Long Beach Island as well as the one in Summers Point. I've been doing this now, um,
working in the marine industry since 1994. I've done pretty much every job. Um, I trailer boats, so I'm very familiar with the truck and trailer. I'm very familiar with the forklifts, travel lifts. U, I've locked plenty of boats over the
years. I've painted bottoms. service boats. I've done pretty much everything. So, [clears throat] I would consider myself pretty well verssed in the marine business. >> And you reviewed the plans that have been submitted particularly with respect
to the boat storage areas at issue. I have and what what concerns if any do you have and if you want a particular exhibit to show if you want the caffer plan or >> this one's the most telling >> the so um looking at the number of votes
that need to be stored on the property and it's not a burrow thing or a town thing it's a it's a New Jersey and and D thing the the amount of boots that they can um keep on that property is what
they can do currently They didn't lower that amount for the five houses. It's still the same that they report that they can do normally. If you look at this overall picture here, >> and you're referring to 06. >> Yes. You'll see that there's absolutely
zero chance to put all the boats in the proposed house spots anywhere else in the marina. And you also notice the size of the boats is different. So there's quite a few large boats and some small boats.
If you look at the north dock area, you'll see that they have the boats there on an angle because it's just enough room to get them in there. So you can't put more boats in front of them. You don't have the room. Uh if you do it with a truck and
trailer, trucks like 22 feet, trailer's like 30 feet. You put a 27 foot boat on there, by the time you go to pull out, you need like 60 70 feet. So, physically impossible to put more boats in front of those boats. And then
if those boats get placed other places, you're no longer going to have the 20 ft that you want to have for your firet truck to go through. It's just not going to have room. It's physically impossible. If you stack boats with your travel lift, >> your average travel lift has a span of
16 17 feet inside the travel lift. Even if the boat is only 12 feet, you still need that space to drive the travel lift to put the boat down on on the ground. And then you can't pack them too tight because you have to have room for the
frame and the wheels to get in and out between each boat. So you run into more problems with actually uh blocking boats. So it's it's really not feasible to do that amount of boats.
And have you had the occasion to experience situation where first responders have to get to a spot like this? >> Yeah, sure. So, you you have to you have to make it accessible. And uh if they're going to plan on putting those boats, if they if they want to try to do 109
boats, they're going to be stacked and and and they're just not going to have any room. It's just not physically possible. And not to just deals with storage, but someone kind of asked the question, all
the boats that get worked on generally are where the houses are. So, you're going to be power washing the boats. You're going to be painting the bottoms of the boats. You you're generally going to do that if you can away from the water as much as possible by putting the
houses there. All that work is going to be right by the water, which is, you know, unless you have a a reclimation uh system where you can capture the water, recycle it, which I don't believe
they have that. Um, that's a problem. >> Any other concerns or does that pretty much sum it up? Um, [clears throat] I think that's that's really the majority. I mean, they they they're trying to base the 109 on 26 foot boats,
but if anyone's ever gone by that marina, you know, there's not that many 26 foot boats. It's mostly large boats. >> How large? >> There's 35, 40 foot boats, maybe larger.
That would be all the boats on these docks here >> on the outer or the lower left >> some of these. >> Yep. >> Anything else to uh provide for the board? >> I'm happy to answer any questions, but
think that sums it up. Maybe some questions. >> Sure. >> Thank you, Mr. Mandelli. Um, you would agree and recognize because you referenced it at the outset of your testimony that the board doesn't have
this board doesn't or the excuse me, the bureau has no jurisdiction over stacking and storage of boats. Correct. >> Well, it's it's not a uh yes or no. >> It's not not to my my knowledge. I don't believe they do. >> Okay. Who which which agency or
organization would have control over that? >> That would be the D. It would fall under the coastal zone management rules. Did Mr. Wet share with you the uh waterfront development and calf approvals that were obtained on
July 23rd? I heard about them. So you haven't seen them? I have not seen them. Um Mr. Mandelli. Um you mentioned that you've been in this business since 1994. Um have you participated um in any
management meetings with MIH Coastal Holdings? I have not. Do you know what plan they have for the storage of boats uh offseason for Queen City right now? Yes. I don't I
I do know that the numbers that you're proposing this store can't be done. >> Well, h um h how can you say that if you haven't participated in any offseason management meetings? It's it's of my
opinion and this is just an opinion that they didn't necessarily know the size of boats you were trying to store because there's no way you could do 109. You're you're not in any way saying that that we um misled the Department of
Environmental Protection, are you? I'm I'm just saying maybe they perceived it as a certain size boat. Um the permit allows my applicant to store on-site, offsite, and in the
water. Is that correct? >> Correct. And again, you haven't participated in any management meetings, have you? >> No. No. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mandelli. >> Unless there are any questions for the board, I would excuse Mr. Mandeli.
>> Board, have any questions for this witness? >> Someone has a question for you. >> I do. >> Okay. [clears throat] Uh so looking at this exhibit um the number of boats you're suggesting and once those houses are there you cannot possibly
logistically fit those number of boats in that within the confines of that lot property. Is that is that your opinion? >> Yeah. Yeah. If you if you put them there with a truck and trailer, [clears throat] your average truck's 22 foot long, your trailer's 30 foot long.
You put a 27 foot boat on your trailer, you go to put it in a spot and then you pull out, you need 60 70 feet just to get out from under the boat, which they don't have that >> space. I understand the the permit or the plans to met the the requirement of
109 slips, but what you're saying is these boats you're looking at on this photo could not fit in those 109 slips. Correct. >> Correct. They'd have to go somewhere else. And how critical is out of the water after season storage to the operations of a marina?
>> It's I mean it's it's great income of course, but it's it's critical to the people that own the boats because they try to find storage is very difficult. There's there's less and less marinas to keep the boats up on land. So, if you if you were a boat owner and you were
trying to choose a marina, off-site storage or on land storage for the offseason would be a something you'd look for? >> Yes, of course. >> And if [snorts] this marina could not facilitate the number of boats today, would that impact their ability to be an
operating marina long term? >> Yeah, I mean, they're they're not going to have the space they used to have to work on the boats that they were able to store. Okay. >> Thank you. Yep. >> Are you assuming, Mr. Jenna, that they can't satisfy those requirements?
>> Mr. Mr. Sorry. Um, I was asking him if that was his opinion. That's all. I'm not assuming anything. >> I have a question. Could you uh explain stacking to me? Is that when you have like shelves?
>> So, my marina has has racks, >> racks. And how how tall? >> Three boats. we can go. >> That's all you can know is three. >> It's safety wise that's about as high as you can go. Yeah. >> And there's no way they could do that on this marine >> with [clears throat] a number of boats.
>> I mean I I mean they could, but they don't have a lot of small boats. >> When we stack boats, the the bottom boats are about 27 28 ft. The mid-level boats are 22 24 feet 26 feet maybe. And then the tall the highest boats you
don't want real big boats up high. They're like 17 to 19 feet in that range, which they don't have a lot of those boats. >> Can I ask a quick question? >> Okay. >> Your name for the record, please. >> Mike Focal, 424 Third Street, Beach
Haven. >> Mr. Mr. Focal, excuse me. You have any questions for this letter >> for this gentleman? Yes. I've figured all of these. I'm getting it. Gotcha. And I've heard this question. >> Hold on. Hold on. Can you spell your last name, please? >> F as in Frank. E R N as in Nicholas. I C O L A.
>> I've I've heard this question asked at this I've been to all these. I've heard this question asked I think to the applicant. They know the answer. And maybe finally I'll get the answer. Do these stored boats need to be full of gas, full of fuel? >> Yeah. Okay. So they do because if if you
if you store them empty you get condensation you get a lot of water in your fuel becomes problems and then you run the water through your engine. So we we typically store boats 3/4 full at least. >> Great. And how many gallons is that? >> It depends on the size of the boat.
>> A couple hundred again you know uh the boat >> a 27 foot boat could have 100 gallons. >> Okay. >> 35t boat could have 300 gallons. So then all these tassels will be surrounded by boats with hundreds of gallons of gas. Yes. Okay. Well, that's my question.
Thank you. Good thing to do. You have a question for this witness? >> Yes. [snorts] [clears throat] >> Evening. How are you? Can I just state the name for the record, please? So, so we get it all.
>> Sure. Greta Forsber, 117 Hannes Road. >> Hi. >> Hi. >> I think you're the first marine expert that we've heard from with regard to this application. >> Speak into the microphone. >> Sorry. I said I think he's the first marine expert that we've heard from with regard to this application. And so I'm
curious. Um, Barnagate Bay is a really shallow body of water and there are a lot of marinas or boatyards dispersed around Barnagate Bay. Would you say in this area based on your experience, are there typically larger or smaller boats
in the demand circuit for some place like Beach Haven? [clears throat] Um, >> so I'm gonna I'm going to object. Uh, Mr. Montelli was never qualified as an expert. [clears throat] Okay, I can I can answer not as an expert.
>> Mr. W, what's your response? >> Can you testify based on his observations as a person with disparities? That's what he's doing. I didn't I did not qualify as an expert. That's correct. >> Mr. Coleman's point, >> if you can answer the question as a lay
person, I suppose you can, Mr. phone, but your police noted he's not being offered as an expert. Miss Forsber, what's your question again? >> My question is in his experience, you know, given that Barnagate Bay is a very shallow body of water and there marinas
and boatyards throughout the bay, is it his feeling that there are larger or smaller boats in the Beach Haven marketplace in terms of supply and demand? So to answer that, it it really is uh
dependent on whether the boats have a place to go, right? The the less marinas, the the less bigger boats we have uh because it just becomes a space issue. So Beach Haven, you have two two
marinas that can accommodate larger boats, which is Queen City Marina and Beach Haven Yach Club Marina. And would that be because the water is deeper and the facilities are there? >> The facilities are there. The slip size is there. Um, >> yeah, definitely.
>> So, it's a different marketplace perhaps than another spot. >> Yeah. Right outside this marina. It's actually very deep. There's a 30ft hole right there. >> Easy access to the ocean. >> Fairly [clears throat] easy access to the ocean. Yes. >> And amenities for larger boat owners.
>> Yes. >> Like what? Well, as well transient slips for people that are traveling that want to visit our town. Uh there's they used to have a ship store. I don't know if they still do. They they had uh you know bathrooms there and uh at one point they
had a restaurant which which is you know burned down years ago but >> Right. But it might be I'm just asking would you think that it's a destination for larger boat owners? It it could very well be as well as a stop over going north or south
>> right on the way. Yep. >> And then those boats, if they're to go into dry storage, if I understood the last questions and answers, could not be stacked, right? >> Larger boats cannot be stacked >> because they have towers on them.
>> For anyone who's not a voting, >> Yep. >> They're just too big. >> Too big. >> Right. Thank you very much. >> You're welcome. >> Have a question for this witness? >> Okay. Go on up. [clears throat] Name and address for the record, please. >> Bill Wright, 4905 Long Beach Boulevard
in Brand Beach. >> My my question for M. Monzelli here is we have this exhibit up. Uh >> which which exhibit are we speaking? >> The one that's up right now. Uh the number >> 06 06 aerial annotated. Um and there's
some annotations about this the number of boats it looks like in red. Um, M. Mandeli, you testified before, I think, uh, that that you said there weren't a lot of small boats. Um, I I think that's what you said. Uh, and my question for you is based on what we see here,
approximately based on your observation of this and probably your personal observations driving back and forth to Maruna Club over the years, can you tell us approximately how many 26 foot and smaller boats you see in this exhibit 06?
most likely about 20. It's hard to say from the aerial, but the boats at the bottom here are much larger than 26 foot. The ones up at on North do, they're your smaller boats. >> So, you said the ones down here at the bottom of the photo are much larger than 26 feet.
>> Yeah. >> Uh approximately, you know, what what is the size of those boats that we're looking at on the bottom there? that they it's hard to say because you're looking from so high, but they could be 32 35 foot boats, >> right? >> Easily.
>> How about the ones on the right side here? Uh right right above the language where it says exhibit 06. >> Yeah, that's going to be bigger boats, too. 35 40T. >> Okay. >> And then how about in the next section here where that I guess where the houses were going to go.
>> Yeah, in the center there also large boats. 35 40 foot. There's probably some 29 30 foot boats around them. >> Great. >> And maybe a couple small ones right in there. >> Thank you, Mr. Mandelli. I don't have anything further. Thank you.
>> I do. So, Mr. Mandelli, um I I heard the two two most important words of what you just said. Could be. Right. Is that what you just say? Could be. Sure. Said pretty pretty speculative and subjective again. Um right. could be because you
haven't had respectfully you haven't had an opportunity to participate in any management offseason storage correct [clears throat] >> I have not participated but I've been at this facility in the winter time myself many times >> do do you know exactly what equipment
they use and what what equipment has been acquired they have a travel lift and they have a forklift and and that observation is as of what date Um, that was this past summer. Okay. Thank
you, Mr. Mandali. >> All good. >> Mr. W, you finished with Mr. Mandali? [clears throat] >> I have somebody online. There's a question. >> Hold on a second. Melli line to sit on June. Ready? Do me a favor. Yep.
Unchair. Thank >> Mr. Pizaro. >> Pizarro. >> Mr. Jesse Pazaro. >> Uh, yes. >> Do you have a question for Mr. Mandali? >> Yes, I did. I just had a question. Is
that an actual image >> or is that like an AI image where they just removed all the boats and put them on the land? That that is actual image and it's just been written on the red lines were drawn on it.
>> Okay. Just so I I've been my dad's been there for 30 years. >> Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. This we're not to the point of public participation. We will get there. If you have any other question for this witness, please ask it. >> Yes. >> But we'll get to public participation at
a later point this evening. >> I'll just I'll wait. Okay. I'll wait. >> Thank you. I'll have to swear you in. That'll be very different than questioning this witness. Thank you. >> Okay. No problem. >> Okay. >> Blue was testified to Yes. Uh at last
the last meeting where we introduced that exhibit. That was an aerial photograph taken off of Google Maps by me and with an overlay of uh information by Mr. Bill Bill Wright who's a member of the club. He was just sitting here as well and an attorney. There was no AI or doctoring of the documentation as may
have been intimated by the witness. My last but this is um Eric Cross. >> Mr. Cross, do you swear affirm the testimony before the board this evening will be the truth. So hold truth to nothing but the truth. >> Yes. >> Your uh address for the record 116 road.
>> Your last name is your oss. >> Yes. Mr. SC, you're the common of the club. Yes. And I called you up here. You testified previously. We're not going to repeat your testimony, but I called you up here because you took some photographs that we introduced earlier.
I briefly introduced to the board earlier as 07. And I'll flip through these and and just ask you generally overall are are these the photographs are these photographs that you took on July 30th, 2026?
>> Yes. >> And what do they depict? If you want to go photo by photo, we'll start with number one. >> Sure. Um, so I I used to own a large landscape company. We used to see storage. [clears throat] So I recognize
these as C containers, probably 20 by 10 each. There three of them. Uh my wife and I also own some commercial property. So I'm a little familiar with real estate and you know code and what you need to do to to get things accomplished. And I was thinking that um probably uh you need a zoning permit to
put sea containers on your property like this. I also noticed in one of the photos you can see that it looks like they're hardwired in. I wonder if there was a um electrical permit pulled to install that as well. I took photos because these do not show up on the uh
site plan that you're seeing, nor do they show up on the CAFRA site plan, which again have to be identical, I believe. >> And you've sat through the entire presentation, all all of the meetings. >> Yes. >> Have you heard any testimony at all about these C containers?
>> No. >> Don't you think we should? >> Yeah. It's not [clears throat] a surprise. just that they're shown as being used as breaking. >> Yeah. And the location of these, what is
it actually being shown as on the plants that are being presented >> these areas? >> Uh I believe they're showing that as boat storage in the winter and parking in the summer. Nothing further unless Mr. just call those questions or the board or the
public. >> Are they are they refrigerated? Is that what they are? Or >> I'm not sure. They're they're not. Madam Chair, >> Mr. Coin, do you have any questions for this witness? >> I do. Um
M Mr. Cross, I know this may sound redundant. Um, I'm going to ask you the same questions I asked your lay person that came offering testimony this evening, Mr. Mandelly. Um, have you had an opportunity to sit down
with my client and talk about the offseason storage? >> I tried, but No. >> No. >> Yeah. >> No. Um, do you know what's in the containers that are there? >> No. If I told you that they were empty, would would that matter?
>> Yes. >> Uh, if I told you that they can be moved at any time, would that matter? >> Looks like they're hardwired in. Are they hardwired in? >> Um, are are you an electrician? >> No. >> Yeah. >> So, they if I told you that they could
be disconnected, would that matter and be moved? >> Yeah, they can be moved. >> Thank you. [clears throat] Is that all? >> Are you seeing >> [clears throat] >> I'm not going to allow If someone has a question for this witness, that's fine. Please raise your hand if you're on
Zoom. We'll identify you and you can ask the question. Does someone have a question for Mr. Cross? >> Mr. W. Any further questions for this witness? No. >> Mr. Coleman? >> Nothing for the board. Any questions for this witness? Do you have [clears throat] anything
further? >> No. Thank you. That concludes my uh objection. There's opportunity for a brief statement at the end. Be glad to give it, but that's enough for me. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Um we've been going at this in six. It's
about about 7:20. She'll take about a final recess. Use the restroom. Come back. [snorts] >> Meeting's back in order. Please take your seat. >> Um, [clears throat] everyone and members
of the board. So, the applicant has rested. Mr. W has put his case on in opposition. Um it was it was mentioned earlier this evening. Um the county fire marshal uh Chief Dennis Allen has issued
a reporter letter dated September 30th, 2026. And um Chief Allen, I'd like you to come up and uh approach the board, speak about issues in your letter, let the board know whether or not your concerns have been addressed, not
addressed, whether you have any further concerns, and then the board may have some questions for you. Okay. Thanks, Chief. You would raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm the testimony you'll get before the board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? And and you are in fact the fire marsh county, New Jersey.
>> There we go. Make sure you speak into the [laughter] you speak into the mic. Pleasure. >> Thanks, Chief. >> So, you wrote a letter. You want to go over the letter with your board? I know that it was [clears throat] submitted. We sent it to the applicant as soon as we got it, but some of the board members may not have a chance to see it. if you
just go through your letter for and again let the board know whether or not the issues or concerns you've you've raised have been addressed not addressed any other concerns you may have. Last week, we met with the uh the chief of the fire chief and the deputy chief of
the fire department and went over their concerns and we had the opportunity to hear their concerns. And their concerns have been been addressed with the additional fire hydrant.
And the only thing we're requesting is the uh the fire access lane just is this way it's clearly marked that they can't have storage on a fire lane. We have a dedicated fire lane so the fire apparatus can get in there and
do what they're supposed to do. Put the fire out. Hopefully we don't have any fires. >> Any questions? >> Mr. Coleman, do you have any questions for the chief? I I I I don't Mr. Riso. >> Okay. >> I we we stated that we would comply with
the chief's letter. So nothing. >> So you and Mr. Patron know we got that to you as soon as we got it. >> No this morning and we would have gotten it to you. I know it's dated last week at least. We got it this morning. >> Oh, good. We we got it this afternoon plenty of time. >> Okay. Do any members of the board have any questions? [clears throat]
>> Go ahead. >> Jerry, sorry. So, as it relates to the buffer zone, and I don't know if you've heard the testimony, if you were here earlier or not, the the buffer zone is supposed to either be 10 feet, if it's on the
residential properties, it's supposed to be five feet. If it's not, if they go to the five foot buffer zone that is on the marina area, does that affect access to any of the fire equipment?
If you're making the the road wider, is that what that's [snorts] >> So I may need your help in terms of >> Yeah, I I I can you go through the question again one more time. I'm sorry. >> So >> maybe Mr.
So there was a discussion earlier about that buffer zone on the I'm going to call it on the west side of the of the properties and and if I'm not correct please tell me also but my understanding what was stated was that there would be a 10 ft buffer zone that that buffer
zone would be on the residential properties and that it would be five feet if it was on off of those residential properties into the marina. So my question to the fire chief is does that affect access that the fire
department would need in the event of a fire on on the marina if they went to the five foot buffer zone. I'm just adding what you might please. >> Sorry about that. >> Thank you. >> And if I can add in exactly what we
[clears throat] had talked about. So if we do a 5-ft on here, this row of boat storage would be eliminated because we are over what we're required. So you would have 20 foot no matter what happens.
>> You would always have 20 foot storage. >> Chief, you okay with that? >> Yeah. I mean, deputy chief, I swear you went again. >> You swear from your testimony before the board be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> I do. your name again for the record name and
>> Deputy Chief Michael Kuster. Um yeah, as long as that fire lane is 20 ft as they've stated, um that meets the requirements. I mean, the buffer zone I don't think is an impact either way to us. That's it's not a fire buffer zone.
It's just a that's a zoning ordinance. >> No, the point is if it's moved if it's moved toward the marina, >> then the boat storage that's there has to be moved to maintain the 20 ft. But the testimony from the applicants engineer is that that the applicant will
in fact do that. And as Mr. Little said earlier, the decision of where that buffer goes is really up to the board. But either way, the 20, as I understand the testimony, the 20 foot fire lane will be maintained. Correct. >> Yeah. I I mean the as long as that 20
foot fire lane is maintained, there's no issue from the fire company perspective. Um, the applicant has, you know, they put in the hybrid that we requested and they've given us the access off of Delaware.
>> I just have a question. I'm confused here. You still have 20 ft. If they store boats there in the winter, >> I I don't know how they're doing their plans and what they're doing. So, you're pretty much saying that you can't store
any boats in the winter from the edge of that marina to the edge of the buffer because you wouldn't have 25 ft. Would you? >> I wouldn't be able to answer that question. >> No. >> Mr. Stout, can you go back with the mic
and to the exhibit, please, for the chair? >> Sure. Absolutely. So where the where the buffer is now that that's at the rear of the residential proposed residential dwellings. Yes, >> that green buffer, >> right? I got the buffer. >> Okay, let me where where it's located
and depicted on the plans. Now, >> how wide is the lane? >> The lane in is in this locations where the existing parking spaces are because they will not be used off peak. That will be 20 feet regardless of what we do anywhere else. That will have to be
maintained as 20 feet. So that 20ft buffer third street along this entire strip there will be no boat stored within that 20 foot. >> What happens if the landscape buffer gets moved into the marina? >> If the landscape gets >> trying to get Yes.
>> If it gets moved into here, there's a row of uh 10 uh boat stoages that we have in that place. >> What happens? >> They will be gone. >> They're gone. Okay. >> Yeah. bank because we're we're over by uh 16 spaces from the D's requirement
just to show a space. So, we could lose those easily. >> You have on your boat storage, you have 35 boats parked there, though. >> I'm looking at the plans on my on my on my iPad.
So, how can you eliminate those? >> These 10 right here. >> Oh, but you'll still have the 20. You'll >> you still have the other ones? >> Yeah. >> Gotcha. Yeah, we would there the ones that are parallel to Pennsylvania Avenue, those would be gone. The ones that are perpendicular,
>> keep the 25 and then you you have room to lose the 10, the parallel 10. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. >> Correct. Okay. >> So, yes. So, we would if we needed to move that 5 foot, we could easily accommodate the 20 foot. Actually, it would probably be a little bit bigger. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Does anyone else have any questions for Chief Allen? >> I have a question for Chief Allen. Um, part of the chief, part of the land use board's responsibilities is protecting public health, safety, welfare of the,
you know, common good. I'm just going to ask you your opinion as a fire chief, as the county marshal here. You're the applicant is proposing to have 25 boats behind these residential
homes and then on the south side nine other boats and then 28 other boats in between that little way that the fire truck can come in filled with hundreds of gallons of fuel. In your opinion, would that be a a place
that you would safety-wise recommend putting five single family homes surrounded by boats stored with thousands of gallons of fuel? >> My opinion, we haven't had any fires here, so it's
relatively safe. Again, my opinion, this is my opinion. We My office goes to hundreds of fires a year. We have not had a marina fire. So, yes, I think it's safe. How many boats are stored next to people's
houses? Again, this is my opinion. [snorts] >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Chief. >> Thank you. So, um hold on, Chief. Just a sec. You have a question for Chief Allen? >> Okay, come on up.
Just because we have the record going. I know you were up earlier. State your name again. >> Carl Anderson. 42530. Go ahead. Mr. Chief, >> can you can you tell me what temperature a fiberglass burns at? Fiberglass boat. Your typical fiberglass boat. >> I do not know. >> It's 1500 degrees.
>> Okay. >> So, if you take a 1500 degree burning fire, boats full of fuel, and we've had big fires in Beach Haven. Those of us here Lucy Evelyn remember these hot fires. Um, if you had a hard northwest wind, uh, and you're up there on the
northwest corner of the marina and that a boat gets struck by lightning, whatever happens, and that fire gets blown by wind, what's what what's the end? Do you feel comfortable that our volunteer fire company can get a line out there to fight that fire?
>> That is a tactics question for the chief. Um, >> I'm asking you if you think it's viable, can they run away? Yeah. It is a that is a judgment call by the by the fire chief. That is >> how you going to put the fire out
>> master streams. >> How you going to get the master streams if you have a 20 foot? Well, you can't get a truck out there because the fires burn at 1500 degrees because that's what fiberglass burns at. >> Okay. >> That is a fact. >> Okay. >> I've had fires on boats. I I know
>> that is a tax question to the chief. >> Okay. But in your opinion, you you think it's it's a it's a fightable fire. >> Preservation of life and property is always important. So it it's we're not going to put anybody in harm's way.
Marines could be rebuilt. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Anderson. >> I have a question. Um, if if a car is blocking a fire lane, you guys can tow the car out of the way.
>> That has to be a burrow ordinance. If anybody's blocking a fire lane, >> but it's a violation of ordinances. Yes. But if you show up to a fire and a car is blocking a fire lane, what do you do? >> We try to have a towed. But >> And if a boat is blocking a fire lane,
do you have the ability to get that towed and get out of the way? >> No, it's up to the mariner. They have they have the equipment to move them. >> So if you show up there and there's a boat blocking the way, you have you're relying on someone to be there to move the boat. >> Yes. >> Okay.
>> Um I have a question too. Just question I've been kind of bothering me on and I brought up a couple of things earlier in the meeting and Eric had said to get your opinion on them, >> but is NFPA what governs the code? And you know obviously they've cooperated with five >> FBA is a standard.
>> It's a standard correct that governs like all the requirements. So so if there was something above and beyond what obviously beach haven fire you got to give them everything they need. I'm only looking for safety. That's the only reason. Um if there's something more
stringent in NFPA would they be required to do it more stringent than being requested? >> It's one of the standards. Yes. So I want to understand that. So question, Mrs. Henry, so in your letter, chief, you say that
there has to be a 20 foot and a 25 foot um wide property. Are there regular mechanisms for inspections that if those conditions are not being met because there's obstructions, boats, cars, what have you in those areas that
the Is that a is that a Beach Haven fire inspection? Is it a county fire? How often do they occur? What What's the ramifications? I mean, will these properties be regularly inspected? The inspections, we do the inspections
once a year. And if somebody's blocking the fire lane, that's a police issue. That's what's kind of >> So, so once the board grants approval, it becomes a burrow issue and the code enforcement or the zoning officer goes out and says, "Hey, listen. You're not
satisfying A, B, and C." Issues a notice of violation. [snorts and clears throat] >> You have a question for the chief? Okay, come on up. >> All right, your name for the record, please. >> Christine Copy, 509 Center Street, >> starting at USA.
>> Copy. Sorry. 509 Center Street. Um, and I may have missed this, but I don't believe it was actually answered. The fire lane with the parking spots and the buffer, what that distance is in peak time when there are cars parked. Did you
hear? I just may not have heard the answer. So, I want to make sure that's 20 ft with behind a pickup truck like I drive and the buffer. Is that 20 ft? I >> got to maintain. >> Nobody's answered that question tonight. >> I So, I know we discussed off peak boat
storage, but I'm talking peak season. You know, if those are the parking spots and I've counted 33. >> That's actually a good question. We have been talking about the off peak but during the peak season it actually is a larger uh even if we took the 5 foot
this is about I believe it's about 35 ft right now because we couldn't fit additional cars. So even if we move this back you'll have more than the 20 foot that the fire chief is looking >> perfect. I just never [clears throat] heard that answer. I just wanted to make sure that was covered. Thank you. Okay, there's no further questions.
Thank you, Chief. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> We turn it over and open it to the public. Any further questions from the board? >> Yeah, >> a question for Bob if it's okay. Would if it was going to, you know, go for
approval today. And if this was enough for a question, let me know. Would it would you be in agreement that one of the conditions would be that you comply with all the NFPA codes? >> Mr. Way, we we we briefly touched this with you when you were online. Um, you
were using the AI platform. I think you admitted to, right? I'm not sure what what variables you put into that. I I think if if if we knew in advance what specific code sections >> Okay, I can provide that.
>> Yeah. Uh but just to sit here blindly and say >> correct. >> Sure. Sure. I I don't know whether it's I don't know whether respectfully it's reasonable or not >> or whether we can or not. >> Yeah. No, I'm an engineer. I I I know how to use AI and I also do independent research. I'm not saying you you can't
use that, but >> for me to sit here and say, "Sure, we'll we'll comply with every provision of the code." Well, maybe it's not applicable to the site plan and maybe we can't. I I don't know in advance. >> I'm pretty sure it's 303 NFPA. >> Mr. Coleman, let me let me see if I can
do it this way. Maybe it'll satisfy Mr.'s question. You would agree that as a condition of approval, if the board were to approve this application, that your client would comply with all applicable ordinances, codes, state laws, rules,
regulations, fire, and otherwise. Yes. And and I and I used the word applicable on purpose, Mr. Coleman. >> Uh Mr. Risa, I think we we beat the limit, you know what, out of this last meeting. Um, and I think we made it very
clear that if the fire U chief Allen thought that there was a violation, I I wouldn't have a choice. He he'd come to us and say, "Hey, listen. You're you're not in compliance with section X, Y, and Z." I I'd have to comply. Yes. Is the answer, and that would be included in
any resolution should the board vote favorably upon this application. Any other questions for members of the board before we open it to the public? >> Okay, Madam Chair, um before we do this,
before we do this, folks, there are a lot of you here. There are a lot of people on Zoom. >> I'm going to ask that you limit your comments to a couple minutes, please, so that everybody can have it >> to three minutes. That's per our bylaws. I'm not going to I'm not going to hold
you to a clock, but let's be reasonable and try to pay attention and listen because some of the comments that you may have may have already been raised and addressed by someone else. So, um, respectfully,
it would be great. Remember, we've all been going at this since six o'clock. The board members are volunteers if we don't repeat one another. I also would ask that if somebody makes a comment and there is a response from the applicant again and this meeting has gone very smoothly that we maintain the decorum
that's been going on all evening. Okay. The applicant has the right to make the application. Republic has the right to make its comments. No snag remarks. Please let's get through this and then we will close the public and then if time permits there'll be a vote. Okay. With that motion.
>> Yep. Can I have a motion to open it to the public please? carry a motion to open public. >> Second, Rick. >> Thanks. >> All right. If there's anybody in the in the audience that would like to come up and speak to this [clears throat] application, please
use that mic there. >> Sure. >> I'm going to do this for everyone, even if you've testified before. >> John Mand name, address, and swear you in. Okay. Name and address for the record. John Mandelli 69 Jonathan PJ West. >> Mr. Mandelli, you raise your right hand.
Do you swear the testimony before the board this evening be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> And please speak up and into the mic. You don't have to stand. Just make sure you speak to the mic, sir. >> Um just a comment for the board. This marina is, as you guys all know,
has been a working marina for many, many years. Um Long Beach Island is a huge boating community. A lot of business is done off of the boats that are at these marinas. Uh
if you guys decide to start put houses in marinas, marinas will eventually sift that exist exist because the real estate is more valuable to the people that own the marinas to turn them into houses. And that would be a shame for Beach
Haven to lose their biggest best marina to someone who bought it as a working marina and then decided they needed to make more money by doing other things. So that's just my comment. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you.
>> Anyone else have a comment? Someone else? Record, please. >> Sean Deovich, 140 Pettico Bridge Road, Columbus, New Jersey. >> Can you spell your last name, please? >> Yes. D is in David. E is in Eric. K's in
Kevin. O's in Oliver. B is a Victory. I is in Ivan. T is in Tom. C is in Charlie. H is in Harry. >> Can you raise your right hand, please? You swear affirm the testimony you give before the board this evening with the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> Yes.
>> Go ahead. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh, yep. Uh, we have been we, as my my wife Brandon and I, who's here with us this evening, we have, uh, been slip holders in the marina now for 5 years, so relatively new. But over the five years, we've got
to experience firsthand uh, summer over summer weekends of what happens, events, uh, other boat neighbors, the traffic, the transients um, that takes place. From our perspective and where we sit, there has not been any inconvenience, whether it's
been weddings, events. In fact, we we view them as enhancements to the marina and the operations of the marina and the sustainability and the financial health of the marina. Parking has never been an an issue um at any time, even when there's been weddings. and to the point
where some of the pictures that were sent earlier of the locations of the weddings um the the tent that was up in the area where I believe the approval for the restaurant is or an application and that area is open uh it sits open
and it's a it's an ideal venue for for such as having events the other locations inside the uh the garage if you want to call it that um there that's an existing place that's an existing locations inside it didn't impact any of
the areas the proposed areas where the housings are uh familiar with the area of the housings and to some of the comments earlier about the marinas failing to exist. I look at this as the health and the wellness of of the marina and that area that taking specific areas
that are not fully utilized or maximized or optimized and turning them into a space and potentially opening up additional five homes to bring additional families and revenue and financing to the community is an added value and a win-win all around for for everyone.
>> Thank you very much. >> Anyone else in the room this evening have a comment? Come on up. >> Right. Wait. There's somebody ahead of you. >> No, no, no, no. [clears throat] >> Can I for the record one more time?
>> Sure. Brida Forsber, 117 Hannes Road, Tom. >> Mber, [clears throat] do you affirm the testimony you give before the board this evening be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Go ahead. >> Uh, again, my name is Ba Forsber. I am the executive director of Save Barag Bay and I don't know for all of you that
know that our organization is a 55year-old organization uh serving Ocean County basically in the regional area. Myself personally, I grew up at a boatyard in Point Pleasant. Happens to be the longest operating boatyard uh in Point Pleasant and I'm sorry, longest
operating business in Point Pleasant. and I really came to participate in this process both the April meeting and this meeting to help contribute to helping you make a better decision. Our organization is not just an environmental organization. It's very much a community organization and over
our years we have helped many municipalities around Barnaget Bay to prevent uh marinas and boatyards from being turned into housing. In fact, that's some of our biggest contributions around the watershed. We were born at a
kitchen table uh with residents from Bricktown and Manaloing which yielded in the protection of a vast area of the northern bay into wildlife refuge and the operating of a municipal boatyard at Trader Cove. I really wanted to participate that way. In the April
meeting, I came here and I asked about process in terms of testifying versus asking questions of the experts. And for some reason, I believe that myself and Mr. Russo got into some sort of misunderstanding about that because I started to ask questions of the planner.
I wasn't getting answers and then I was told that was enough to make my public comments. This evening I came back with questions for the planner and the planner wasn't here. The engineer had testified I was 5 minutes late. I think it's a bit of a shame. Having been born and raised at a boatyard, I never heard
anyone here other than the one gentleman before me who was a marina operator testify as to the operations of the facility. The one person who's the applicant who said at one point that she was the operator then later said she wasn't the operator. There's a great
deal involved with operating a boatyard or marina. I don't think you heard enough testimony to understand what happens on that kind of property. Also, I was trying to draw out the fact that boatyards and marinas are very vastly different because Barnagget Bay is a
very shallow body of water. There's a high volume of smaller boats with shallow draft. Those boats can fit in your driveway on a trailer for storage in the winter. However, if you have a marina that is located near an inlet with a deep channel, you tend to attract
much larger vessels. That is a whole industry distinctly separate from all these other boatyards that have much smaller um slips. what is happening in the marina industry across Barnagate Bay and the gentleman again prior to me mentioned that the value is for
residential property. But once you lose this marina and you compromise its ability to operate as a marina which you're already allowing to happen by having a restaurant and catering and loss of bathrooms and loss of marina support services. You're basically
losing your marina if you allow it to be developed by residential development. We have assisted towns in developing marina overlay zones because many marina operators were owner operated and lived on site, myself included. And so what happened was the operator would be there
247 >> over ye the years that has changed. I I'll finish up. >> No, no, no. That's I think that's something that was zooming in. You go ahead. >> I'm sorry. I'm trying to fit a lot in three minutes. >> Go ahead. Over the years, a lot has changed and the older generations go to
retire and their children have gone to school and they don't want to be marina operators. They've taken on professions. So, what was happening is we were losing marinas to big condominium developments, particularly in the Northern Bay. And it's come down here in the south now. And so what we did was we adopted
overlay zones that would allow the restaurants marinas to have small restaurants and other facilities that would complement a marina, not convert a marina site into another type of functioning site. So I just I don't feel like the board heard enough of that
testimony. And I feel that this is what you're risking right now. And not every municipality around Barnagate Bay has a marina commercial zone. You should protect that. that is something of value and that belongs in this town. Thank you very much,
>> Miss Forsber. Um h have have you you mentioned earlier this evening um you asked me about the consistency of the master plan as it relates to the zoning ordinance. Have you reviewed the master plan? >> I have.
>> Okay. specifically the marina. >> Okay. And and the master plan. Um would you agree that the master plan um I can read it for you. It's pretty pretty short and simple, right? It says the
burrow, this is from the 2018 comprehensive master plan. The burrow should fully understand that one of the largest parcels available in the burrow known as Morrison's Marina remains essentially undeveloped. yet is
located in a prime area of economic viability. An overlay zone should be established that encourages development of mixed use with mainly restaurants and retail establishment as well as housing uh incorporated on the parcel. Equally
of importance uh is the continued operation of the marina and boat slips here as this is one of the only areas available that can accommodate boat docking. the marina use is critical to the burough's economic tourism. Then
further on page pages 15 and 16, I'll I'll be brief here. >> Emphasis should be placed on creating a pedestrianfriendly area that offers restaurants, shopping, and housing. Future plans for development should include, among other things, standalone
residential units. And the master plan continues by explicitly stating the area and yard requirements for single family houses which the subdivision meets or exceeds. I I appreciate your thoughts and
concerns, but why shouldn't my client be allowed to access and file an application consistent with every provision of the zoning cord zoning ordinance and the master plan. So I thought about that at some length
um trying to understand why that in particular the housing component would have been contemplated in that language and I'm not from Beach Haven so I don't I wasn't a part of that process >> but it is my understanding that your clients did not purchase the entire
property that encompassed the Morrison's Marina in fact that the property across the street which would be more consistent with residential development the blocks and lots were across the street. They did not purchase and I think the Morrison's I'm not positive of this but I think the Morrison's
maintained ownership of those blocks and lots. So it is my feeling and understanding again I was not a part of the master plan process that it was likely contemplated that that area would be developed as residential not the
commercial parcel itself being converted from a marine use. In fact, in my review, I didn't see anything in the master plan that suggests that the town actually wanted to lose or diminish or devalue its marine district.
>> Um, wouldn't these comments be um appropriately fitting at the burough council and not the land use board? >> I'm sure they would be fitting at both. >> Thank you, Mr. Forb. >> Thank you. Have a good evening. Thank you. >> Anyone else in the room like to be
heard? >> Good evening. Name and address, please. >> Joe Kellury, 1932 Quinnby Court, Tom River. >> Can you say your last name, please? >> C A L A F I O R E. >> Raise your right hand, please.
Do you swear from the testimony you'll give before this board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Okay. Um I I know there was a question about how many boats they're going to put on that property, >> but to my knowledge, is there any law
states that they have to store boats on property on land for winter? >> U consistent with our caffer permit. Again, um we have the ability to store them on site, offsite or in the water,
>> but not specifying on land. >> Just gives the appropriate number of what your storage capacity is. >> The max. >> The max. >> Right. So, in I work for a marina up north in Tom's River. We store over 500 boats. Okay.
From jet skis up to 75 foot. And I know there was concern about fuel. These 75 footers are storing two, sometimes 3,000 [clears throat] gallons of fuel. And there has never been an incident in our marina as far as
a fire or anything like that. Uh, and if the issue came up as far as somebody asked about if a fire lane was blocked, let's just say, which can't be. But if
the fire truck couldn't get to the hydrant, couldn't they drop pumps into the bay to pump? >> I'm just an attorney. I'm not >> Okay. No. Well, [laughter] but that could be possible. >> Anything's possible. >> Okay. But >> I would think that our fire department would have the ability to
>> drop a pump >> to fight this fire, >> right? But nothing states that, you know, it can't be, okay, say a 100 boats doesn't mean it's it can't be a jet ski. It can be I'm I'm one of the larger boats in
the on the property in the water, and I'm telling you right now, most of the larger boats don't store there. One reason is their lift won't pick us up. So they they're they're limited to the size boats they can pick up
at that marina. And uh so most of us are going to be stored off land, you know, other places. And um so oh the weddings now I've been there down there this year
since what April. We've only seen three maybe four weddings max. The pictures that are up there was the largest wedding and that tent was down the next morning. All the weddings that whatever tents they had were down the next
morning. But most of them are smaller weddings, you know, 75 people, 100 people. That was a large one. But that is like the other guy said, that's where your future venues, you know, the the
where the restaurant was supposed to be. That's where that was. So that space there was already up for discussion as far as a restaurant. [snorts] But I just wanted Oh, and the picture that they put up there of the marina with all the boats stacked
everywhere, that's an old picture. So you're once you put the houses there, the boats won't be there. Again, they're cutting down the number of boats if they want to put boats there.
But that's an old picture kind of deceiving what the future is going to bring. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Good evening. Warren Slick. They call me Duke. Live at 1050 Surrey Road.
Philadelphia, PA19115. >> Can you please spell your last name, sir? >> Yes. S is in Sam, L is in Larry, A is in Apple, D is in dog, E is in Edward, K is in King. >> Thank you. Can raise your right hand, please. You swear affirm the testimony before this board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
I do. >> Go ahead. >> I just really wanted to say quickly um I've worked for two marinas. I've been around automobiles for 60 years. I'm going to be 78. Uh I have seen gasoline fires. I've seen many, many things.
Never seen them in a marina, but that doesn't mean it can't happen. But as far as marinas, whether it was Canada, whether it's Maryland, wherever it's been, I've been, this marina is the
safest, cleanest, most well-run marina that I've been to ever. I've been here for 40 years. This man and this woman really care about the people, care about the town, and we're very safe.
everything safe and clean and neat as best as he can. So, I just wanted to give it basically the character thing. I don't think we're considering all the positives that they do, but based on the things that they've improved and what they're trying to do, these houses that
he would like to put up are not a problem. And like I said, I've been in this marina for 40 years, been in Shelder Harbor, been a number of places, and this is the safest. Just wanted to make sure the board and everybody here knew that. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Mr. Cross name and address, please. >> Um, Eric Cross, 116 Peter Road, Man Hawking. >> Raise your right hand, Mr. Cross. You swear affirm the testimony to give before this board will be the truth. Hope you nothing about the truth. >> Yes. >> Go ahead. >> Okay. Um, so we've been on behalf of the
tuna club, we've been involved in this since December when we got notified. Um, it's been quite the journey of uh finding out new things. Um, and I was thinking about um, you know, when this first occurred, I looked at the code book of what the marina uh, was zoned
for and it's it had things listed um, selling fuel, selling beat, renting a boat, things like that. And then it said, and I'm paraphrasing, I don't remember exactly, but it said um anything any other use is prohibited. And now, um and discover we're finding
out all these big weddings of which there were many. Um and now I'm thinking we're going to a whole another use residential. And I I think we're just going over the whole I think when it came to light, your own engineers said, "Wait a minute, you didn't appear before us to talk about events like that."
Um, and I think that, um, we have to kind of figure out the use today, uh, before we start changing the use again, um, and moving on. Uh, because it it's a real conflict with, you know, it's the same thing as saying
we have 126 foot boats when they don't, you know, it's kind of the same thing in my mind. Um, so just if you would consider that, I would appreciate it. Thank you. Good evening. David Wedi, 103 Mohawk Trail, Shamong, New Jersey.
>> Could you spell your last name for me? >> W I DI Whiskey Ida Delta Ida. >> Thank you very much. >> So, I just wanted to say um Mr. >> Yes. You swear by a testimony you get before this board be the truth the whole truth and nothing.
>> Yes, I do. Go ahead. >> All right. So, I was just uh thinking why is the tuna club opposing this so much? So, you should probably want you probably really want to think about that. Earlier, I've been to every one of these meetings by the way. Earlier, I
think it's Eric Cross. I think that's his name. He's the one that said this would all go away if we just got a free lot. Right? So, why are they opposing it so strongly? because it's a strong arm to try to get a free lot out of the marina.
Okay, [snorts] let's just put the monkey on the table, right? That's what it is. Again, the you got we got to look at the weddings and stuff. There has not been a wedding every day. There was testimony that there was weddings every day, that
there's weddings every week. There's been three weddings all year. So, that's not true. None of that was even true. Anyway, that's my two cents. >> I have a question. >> Thank you, Mr. Reed. Wait a minute. Hold on. >> Yeah, you said somebody wants a free live. Where did you hear that?
>> It was uh testimony by Eric Cross on the second meeting. >> Well, uh well, let's go back to the transcript and take a look. >> Hold on, hold on, hold on. We're not going to have back and forth. Mr. W. >> I just know what I heard. >> Hold on, Mr. W. We're not going to go
back and forth and argue with one another. Your recollection, Mr. is different from Mr. Wedi's. Your point's been is taken. If you have another question, go ahead. >> Are you aware that there have been negotiations or talks between the parties about a possible purchases?
>> Hear say I I've heard it. >> There's been negotiations, but it's your testimony here that you heard my client say he wants a free lot. >> I heard him at this meeting. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Week. Name and address, please.
>> Lari Deas D E K I S. I live at 214 Hillst Avenue, Hamilton, New Jersey 08619. >> Your right hand, please. Do you swear affirm the testimony before the board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but >> Yes. Go ahead. So, I just I just want to
talk about the credibility of Jeff and Angela. So, I've been a slip owner or a slip holder at Queen City more since previously. This is my 27th year. And these people have not just talked the
talk, but they walk the walk. They want to help with things that happen in Beach Haven. They've heard me talk about how much I love Bamin and how much this community does for things that I want to happen here.
I don't see what the big deal is that they want to put houses. I think it's going to beautify our town. I think there's going to be more tax dollars coming in. I think the people that buy these houses are probably going to be Boers or fishermen.
You you you don't know. So these people have never broken the rules. Like from from what my perspective, they tell us the rules of the marina. They abide by the rules. We abide by the rules. Like give them a
chance. Like get to know them. They are good community people. They want to do well for this beach haven. I I don't even know why this has to be a problem really. I mean, if they do all the environmental testing and they do all
the fire testing and the police testing, why won't you just give them a chance? Let them build these houses. It's going to be beautiful. Pennsylvania Avenue is going to be beautiful. People on the other side are going to look at beautiful houses. People in the houses are going to look at the
beautiful water. I I don't get it. I think it's, you know, I just think you should give them a chance. get to know them. They're really, really wonderful and they're good to us. And if
they weren't, I wouldn't be here. I've been here my whole life. >> Thank you. >> And and and then some. >> Okay. [clears throat] >> One more time, please. >> Carl Anderson, K A R L 4253rd Street,
Beach Haven, New Jersey. Is your right hand swear testimony before the board will be the truth the whole truth or nothing? No, >> I do. Um I actually have lived in Beach Haven my whole life. My grandfather lived here from 1916. My father was born and raised here. We actually pay taxes
on three houses. Slip owners at a marina don't pay taxes, so they're not really part of Beach Haven community. Um [snorts] I would like to say a little bit of history here. At the end of Amber Street used to be Cony's Dock. It's gone. It's condos at the end of
Angleside. Used to be Shoenberg's High and Dry. Gone condos. Across the street, Beach Haven Yach Club gone condos. Just a dock. Let's go further uptown. Shelder Harbor. Guy comes into town. Big wig developer going to come in do all this
shaking and making it. He forges documents with the state to be able to build that project. Wiped out Shelder Harbor Marina. We lost another full service marina. We're down to one. And we're down to one down at the bottom end of Morai that can only handle boats up to about 25 feet. We have spent so much
time in Beach Haven worrying about the business district in downtown that we've completely forgot about the marine commercial district in this town. At one time, Beach Haven had the largest charter fleet in the entire world from the 30s into the 40s. Started in the
20s. Over 45 boats. No one had that. Beach Haven, New Jersey had it. And we have eliminated the [cough] marine business in this community over a bunch of years with former land use boards who bought the bad tomatoes and gave away the land. You've got a chance to save
the marine commercial district in Beach Haven. You all you got to do is say no because it only benefits one person if you say yes. It benefits the entire community if you say no. And I am imploring you as a lifelong member of
this town, as a person in the marine industry. I've been all over the world. I'm a master mariner captain. I have been to Australia, can I've been all over. I've never been in a marina that didn't serve fuel. Clean city got rid of the fuel. Never been in a marina where I couldn't get a bag of ice. Got rid of ice. Never been a marina. They didn't
have a ship store where you could buy a rope or a paintbrush or paint, anything. They got rid of their ship store. They got nothing. It's not a fullervice marina. It is not. And now they're going to put homes on there on on the pro the marine proper where all the work was
done forever. You've heard all this testimony. The master plan talked about five homes. Now it's four lots because one was already used on Pennsylvania on east side to build a home. Imagine that. So would you think that the other four homes would have gone along on
Pennsylvania on the east side also? Pretty sure that was the intent. So, I'm just asking you to really look at this and think about what's best for Beach Haven for once, for once, put the greater community as opposed to one person's desire to have a land grab and
make some money. Please, please save the Marine Commercial District and Beach Haven. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else? address one more time for the record. >> Michael Fornocola, 4243rd Street, Beach Haven, New Jersey.
>> Hey, Mr. You swear further testimony will give before the board will be the truth. The whole truth is not >> I do. >> First, I know you're all volunteers. It's a thankless job. So, let me start off by saying thank you. Um, I live on Third Street, so I am right in the heart of this and I'm almost here to cry
uncle. Um, I know like things can get lost, but my last count, we've put 10 new houses on Third Street this year. Not coming up. This year, there are 10 new houses. We're not even done with them yet. I recently had to just replace
my whole front lawn because the seawater came up with the recent floods and destroyed it. That's never happened before. I've been here for over 20 something years. Like, can we just let it marinate? Can we finish the houses that we've already approved and see how
that affects I mean parking you guys can argue about parking that's for smarter people than I am but parking is already out of control. I can't imagine when these large houses that are being built on the street now have 10 15 you know guests with them and that even comes
more. So and and not to mention what it does to the beaches how we're going to overcrowd them. I don't think five extra houses is really going to change our tax base or really help us in any way, shape, or form. There's plenty of new houses going on. And the other thing I
keep hearing is is that we can store boats off. That's what this is the new one. It's we can I guess they're going to plan to remove the boats for storage. So now I'm going to have to deal with that on Third Street. We're going to all of a sudden, you know, where my kids play and hang out, we're going to be
moving boats off of it all September. I I think in one stat uh Beach Haven I think 60% of the kids that went to Beach Haven Elementary went uh lived on Third Street at one point. It's a lot of families. It's a lot of kids on there.
It's already tons of traffic, tons of of uh parking. So, just please think about that. Mercy. There's plenty of new housing and that's great. Not here to complain about that. But at some point, we have to say enough is enough, right? Thank you. My name is Max Goldman. G O L D M 12
Sterling Lane, Barnagate, New Jersey. >> Raise your right hand, Mr. Goldman. Do you swear affirm the testimony before the board will be the truth? The whole truth. >> I do. Go ahead. >> So, my name is Max Goldman. Um, I'm the owner and operator of the Starfish, which is a Coast Guard inspected vessel um for up to 19 passengers, and I'm
based at Queen City Marina. In addition to, um, having my boat at Queen City, I also am a member of the Tuna Club. Um, and I think it's important to note, you know, since Jeff and Angela took ownership of Queen City, um, they've made substantial improvements inside the property. Um they put a new fence in.
They've reh uh habilitated the older parts building. Totally redone and beautified the maintenance building. Uh totally every piling that's, you know, deteriorating, decaying over, you know, 75-year-old marina. They don't blink an eye. They just fix it. Um they also, you
know, last year or two years ago put a brand new floating dock in for all the charter boats and that made it more accessible. So more tourists, more more you know whether it's a local, a tourist, a visitor, um we have a huge transient community, everybody takes part of the marina and we actually get a
lot of them who go out on the boats. Um so they've done a lot really to sit there and improve the marina. Um and they have a huge commitment to maintaining and and improving the marina for not only who's at there, but whoever visits it, all the transients. And I
really think that you know we have one group who's sitting there opposing it and maybe I heard a wrong at one of the meetings as well but you know it did come across that hey if we were given a lot or we got a lot below market value whatever right we wouldn't be here which to me doesn't make sense when the
burrow's own master plan right which we heard I researched it it sits there and encourages housing and retail and boats so what is like what's the opposition of the application when it accomplish lishes all of that. And to another gentleman's point who just testified,
right, you can get ice at the marina. I purchase ice multiple times a week for my charter boat. You can get parts. I broke down one day and they had the parts right in stock and you can get service. I had a a garden hose get sucked up in my prop and same day after hours they actually hauled my boat out.
Right. So there there's a lot of people who have testified that don't actually live in the marina, don't utilize the marina and aren't aware of it. and Jeff and Angela have demonstrated, you know, their commitment to investing in the marina um for the long term. So, by subdividing, it allows them to keep
their marina operational. It sits there and it keeps our slip rates more competitive and and it improves it for the boating community. So, for those reasons, I support the the subdivision and and I'm a business owner on that property. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. Anyone else in the room look that hasn't been heard before we go to people on Zoom? >> See none. >> Two on Zoom.
>> Mr. Jack Palmer. >> Hi. >> Hi, Mr. Palmer. Can you hear me? Okay. >> Yes. >> Can you uh give us your address, please? Um 245 Lily Road, Egg Harbor Township,
New Jersey 08 234 [clears throat] during the week. And I live at Queen City Marina during the weekends. >> Can you raise your right hand, please? Do you swear affirm the testimony before the board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes.
>> Go ahead, Mr. P. >> Okay. Um I wrote a letter to you guys. It was just yesterday. I don't know if council had a chance to to to uh provide it to you. It's only one page. I'll I'll it'll be a little stagnant, but I'd like to read it uh with your permission.
>> Yeah. Why don't you go ahead and do that because the board can't consider just a letter because then the lawyers wouldn't have a chance to cross-examine it. So, why don't you go ahead? >> Okay. All right. Um because I love Beach Haven and was not fortunate enough to own a house, I purchased a boat and
leased a a slip in or Morrison's Marine in 1998. That was 28 years ago uh as a slipholder and I seen uh you know many improvements in maintenance on the property. Um the biggest uh investment I
saw was the floating docks in 1999. Uh but in 2005 we did lose the the uh restaurant [clears throat] to to a fire. Um, but with the uh with the new owners, um, they've been making some some capital improvements. Uh, but nothing
really ma major uh other than what Max said about the the fence and trying to keep up with the uh the bath house. Um, we lost the the fuel docks just recently because of the [clears throat] the the infrastructure. They were old. They were
taking on water and they couldn't replace them. So now it kind of uh the operation cost kind of is falling right on the the slip holders. Um and it's not weddings. There's not a wedding there
every weekend. Uh I think there was three. Um so you know as the marina age you know the the cost of maintenance of the infrastructure like the the bath house the bulkheads the docks uh all the facilities keeps increasing and so do
the slipholders cost keeps going up. Um so you know I'd like to address the concerns of people that are not slipholders that are not living in the marina part-time. Um but um developing these five lots will reduce the operations
uh or reduce the marina's operations and create a u um you know more financial stable environment. You know uh [clears throat] there are no parking problems now. Um there's there's enough room for boats. Um, I I just think if
this was approved, the marino would have the financial resources to montoriize the uh the property and it let it deteriorate um because because of the cost. Um, you
know, I believe continue to um for I I believe there's enough parking for for slipholders and guests, you know, and dry dock would be prioritized to slipers. Uh there's a lot of small boats that can be trailered, you know, offsite. Uh I I don't know if there's
any requirements how many boats need to be stored there. I know the beach and yacht club doesn't have any uh drive storage, you know, and I'm just speaking for myself. Um but you know the slip free is going to become unaffordable and um the place is going to deteriorate
without financial resources you know and you know someone like me you know I'm I'm pushing 69 I have limited income uh opportunities I I'll I'll have to leave and a lot of other people will so you won't have a diverse community you know
you just have if you could wrap up your comments please you can wrap up comments, please. >> Uh yeah, I just wanted to, you know, thank everybody that's concerned about the well-being of the the marina. I think they're misguided. Um and as you
see, uh there's not one stipholder is complaining about the application. They're supporting it. Um I also see the opposition has um they have financial reasons for opposing uh this marina. I don't think they really care about fires
or or or the well-being of and anybody. Um, so thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Mr. Potter. Um, Amanda Pollinger. >> Miss Pollinger, your address, please, for the record. >> 16 Southwest Avenue, Beach Haven.
>> Raise your right hand, please. >> Do you swear from under the testimony to give before the board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. So I think I think what's really interesting is um and first of all thank you this is a thankless task. I I
realize you are all volunteers so I do thank you. I think the big discrepancy as I've listened to where people live and make their comments. The big discrepancy is the people who live here versus those who are in the marina who
don't live here year round. Um, and I think that's the challenge. And and I think look, at the end of the day, I feel like I pay taxes in this in this township. And I would hope that the voice of those who live here counts more
than those who just come for the summer. And I don't know that that's the way it works. Um, [clears throat] in the very first meeting, I brought up the weddings. I was the one who brought up the weddings because it was suggested it was poo pooed. Oh, the weddings the
weddings aren't a big deal. The weddings don't really happen. Whereas, actually at that point on the website, it was very clear the weddings happened. In the second meeting, I asked one of the owners of the of Queen City Marina,
"Have you taken down the advertising for the weddings?" And she [clears throat] said, "Yes." On my mobile phone, it was still being advertised. And so that's why I went over and took the pictures of the wedding on that on that evening. Um I
mean I don't live very far away. It's pandemonium here. I I feel like this year is worse than ever. I mean we have people parking in our in our slot right by Tuckers on a on a Thursday, Friday night. That the parking has definitely
got worse this summer. Um um so I I guess my concern is can we trust that the that the owners of the marina will do the right thing if they are given permission to build the houses.
I came to the burough offices because I wanted to know because my my my impression at the last meeting was that the that the um that that around the table the officers were wanted to make sure that each wedding was given a permit and I just
wanted to check that each wedding had been given a permit. I was told that that was the case, that even weddings in the future were being permitted, which surprised me a little. When I then said, "Well, are events in
the boat shed itself allowed?" I was told, "No, they're not allowed to have food and drink in there." Well, I've observed on at least two occasions and have photos of of of events taking place in the boat shed. And I also had a
picture of a food truck and I said, "Is a food truck allowed on the site?" And I was told, "No, that is not permitted." So I guess my concern is first of all, um, if they're not doing what is right
by the the law that is, you know, the rules, how do we know that they're going to do what's right going forward? Number that that's my my big concern. And finally, I know we're not allowed to talk about the restaurant tonight, but to be honest, I don't know how you and
as a board can make a decision about Five Houses without understanding what else they are considering on that site. I don't know how you can make that decision and I don't know who made the decision to separate the two items, but
I do worry that it's a way for them to get the five houses on to get th that issue sorted and then they're going to come back and ask for more stuff that doesn't necessarily isn't necessarily being discussed tonight. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Um Jesse Pizaro Let me turn my camera. I'm facing you. Hello. >> Your address for the record, please. >> Yes. I'm trying to turn my camera around. Hold on.
>> The camera. Oh, no. That's not muted. >> Hi. Sorry, I can't get my camera to flip. Um, yes. So, I wanted to uh just make a few comments. >> Your address, please, for the record. >> Uh 21 Yorktown Court, uh Woodbury, New Jersey, 08096.
If I keep >> raise your right hand, please. Do you swear affirm the test again before the board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> Yes. >> Go ahead. >> Um so, just a few things I just wanted to mention. Um I've my like my dad say,
I've been there for 30 years. I've been there for seven years as a boat owner or a slip holder. Um, yes, I know we don't pay taxes, but we do pay slip fees to be there every year. If I could own down there, trust me, I would. It is my happy place. There's no place I want to be
more than Beach Haven. So, hopefully someday I will be a taxpayer as well. Um, but just a few things I wanted to mention. Um, I do support the development of the houses. Um, because that revenue is only going to help our marina. Um, I don't think it's going to take anything away. We are not going to
lose any slips when they bring in those houses. Um, so that's not going to affect any of the slips in the marina. As far as storage, um, the picture that I saw earlier, I've never seen the marina that packed up with boats. That's why I wasn't trying to be sassy or I was
legitimately asking about that picture. Um, just because I've never seen boats quite so packed like that on the marina. Um but but to that you do not have to store at a marina. I know a lot of my friends take their boats to wear town to Viking um closer to home so that they
can work on their boats during them uh during the off season. Our marina does not allow us to bottom paint our boats um winterize our engines and do things like that because they're a clean marina. They're protecting our environment, protecting the waterways. Um so they want to make sure things are done correctly. Um so that speaks to the
land that they're protecting there. Um, so even if some boats had to move, if you know, I do store there in the winter. Um, but if need be and I had to store elsewhere, I would do that. If I knew that meant that we were going to have more money coming into the marina and making enhancements there and making
it a better place to be for the future. Um, you know, we want to be able to stay there and maintain the marina, but without revenue, that's not going to be possible. Um, and then I just wanted to respond in regards to the taco truck. Um I think she was speaking in regards to
holy bowls. Um that was for a nonprofit that was um to help children with disability um for fishing. I think it's called uh access without reels or reels for access um that Lori runs. Um so that wasn't the marina that brought that in.
That was a nonprofit. So that's why that taco truck was there. Um so we know that we are unfortunately which really stinks for us slip holders. We love the taco trucks coming in and the mobile bars. Um, but unfortunately we know we're not allowed to have that anymore. So, you know, that that kind of sinks for us,
the slipolders there. Um, and then to respond about the boat the the boat barn being used. Um, a lot of times if there's not great weather or we're even getting together at the marina, um, we might sit in there and just hang out, bring our own food and drinks, not
necessarily um, parties or anything going on there. So, we've had things in there just like with our marina friends like just kind of hanging out. Um, and then in response to the weddings, we're right on that west dock. We call it sunset dock. So, we're right there. The weddings, we love to watch the weddings.
They're a good time. The music's usually good. It's way quieter than the birds. Um, so it doesn't really inhibit anything. It's not a problem. I don't believe they charge for parking to the people coming to the wedding. I think that's more for the people going to the restaurants and bars. Um, so, and I want
to say there might have been three weddings this whole year. Um so and the one that there was pictures of was the biggest wedding there this year. Um >> so comments please >> finish by saying we are in support of
this. Um the Tina club does seem don't have any parking. Um so you know I I see they seem to be very worried about the parking but I think we're we're within the requirements. [clears throat] So that's all. Thank you. >> Thank you. [clears throat]
Y >> Mr. Marcus, >> Mr. James Marcus, I see your hand raised. >> Mr. Marcus, are you there? >> Sounds like he's gone. Anyone else? >> Anybody [clears throat] else on Zoom
want to make a comment? >> I don't see anyone else. >> Okay. Close [clears throat] the public. >> Can I have a motion to close to the public, please? >> Motion to close, Andy. >> Second.
>> Second. Al. >> All in favor? I Public's closed. Back to the board. And if there's no further questions from the board, then it would be time for a vote. Oh, excuse me. Mr. Cole, Mr. W. You'd like to make closing statements.
>> 90 seconds timing. >> You get 60. No. >> Fair. M. Make your closing statement >> briefly. Go ahead. >> Just want to clarify something. The only thing of record is exhibit 08 with respect to negotiations. And it reads as follow. It's a letter from me to Mr.
Poland saying the club's executive committee has reviewed MIH's pending subdivision amended site plan application and the major subdivision plan on file with the LUB. The club is inquiring whether MIH would be interested in selling the northerly portion of MIH's property enable
[clears throat] proposed lot 3.08 for fair market value. In this instance, fair market value means a building lot price if the LUB had granted the subdivision and allowed the building. It's the only offer that's been ever made. The only thing that we
try to talk about and that's it. I'm going to leave it at there. Negotiations obviously didn't go any further than that. So, this nonsense about wanting a free lot is just that. With respect to the weddings, you have 54 screenshots dating back to January of
two years ago. Take a look at them. They're all big weddings. Take a look at the applications that were submitted. 300 people, 200 people, 150 people. And that's what they put on paper. You have that evidence in front of you.
It wasn't just the last wedding. I grew up in Ventner. I live in Atlantic City. Really hard for me to sit here and listen to people from out of town tell me what to do where where I live. And that's exactly what's happening here. I'm a shore guy. I'm a beach kid. Listen
to your neighbors. Not just the club, your neighbors. Your neighbors. They live here. Not that I'm not that anybody else shouldn't have input, but when you're from the shore and you're really from the shore, it makes a
difference. You have everything you have and that you need to say no tonight. And that's what we ask you to do. Please say no. Thanks, >> Mr. Coleman. >> Thank you, Mr. Riso. Um, sorry I'm not
going to be 90 seconds. Um, Mr. Went is spot on. Um, there there has been communication back and forth between my office and Mr. Went. In fact, uh, I received a letter from him just
maybe two or three weeks ago inquiring again about the um about the the sale of the lot. And no crown secret. I I responded and said, uh, if and when we get approval, be more than willing to discuss with you the sale of the lot,
but there there has been no negotiations and, um, the the two New Orleans Club has never asked for a lot for free, period. End of story. Okay. >> Um, let's let's talk about the weddings. Um, my client should not be held to a
higher standard than any other applicant that walks into the burough office and ask for a permit for a tent. >> Period. End of story. Done. End of story. Every one of these permits and approvals was handd delivered by the
tent company to the burrow and approved by the burrow. And if the burrow didn't want the tents to be issued for events such as weddings, then they shouldn't have issued them. We didn't do anything wrong. Every one of those permits was
issued appropriately. [clears throat] Let's talk about the the safety. Deputy Chief Kustrip [snorts] um has said numerous times through his testimony at both the April uh excuse me the April and the May meetings that if
uh there was a second means of ingress and egress and a dedicated wet water line, we would be comfortable. The deputy chief never ever once said that it would be impossible. He said it would be preferred. I'm I'm glad that Chief
Allen was here tonight uh on questioning from uh the council president. These are his words. Is it safe? It's safe. That's the fire marshal from the county of Ocean telling you it's safe.
[clears throat] Let's talk about the testimony of Mr. Shropshshire. There's been no testimony from any expert or any member of the public um or the board's own professionals contrary to Mr. Shashshire's testimony.
He said that there is a there is no impact with respect to the traffic level being generated by this project. Let's talk about the testimony of our planner. Our planner came before you and said that there's absolute consistency between the master plan and the zoning
ordinance. [clears throat] They are completely consistent with each other and the master plan is also relatively current. So basically the bureau has nothing or has has done everything that they're supposed to do in terms of planning and
zoning as a result and this is a permitted use. We've heard absolutely no testimony from the board's planner or any member of the public that contradicts Mr. Miller's testimony. Um, we talked about fire. Let let's
let's talk about the initial testimony uh and the statements from Mr. Went going back to the March meeting. The case that Mr. Went talked about, Mr. went referred to uh the Cox treatis that fire safety is a reason to deny site
plan. Absolutely a thousand% right citing a site plan denial involving the construction of an addition to a hospital that would make it impossible impossible for the fire department to reach the upper floors
with the ladder truck. You heard the fire chief from the county fire chief come for you and say it's safe. You've never heard Deputy Fire Chief Gustrip at any time say that it would be impossible. He said it would be preferred. He said that we would like
it. We have gone over and above and satisfied every concern that the fire district has had with respect to the fire aisle with the the 20 foot drive aisle. Uh that also is uh was in accordance with the deputy chief's
request. Uh I've read uh into the record u the master plan uh provisions that this is promoted uh and should be encouraged uh as a as a a permitted use. Um, in terms of case law,
uh, it there's been no credible testimony proposed that the ingress and ingress creates an in unsafe or inefficient vehicular uh, circulation problem on site. Actually, the third
access helps uh, the uh, perceived ingress and egress. um talked about the um master plan. Nothing further. Madam Chairman, >> that's it. >> That's it. >> You've heard enough. Sorry.
>> Thank you, Mr. Coleman. >> Thank you, >> M. Miller. >> Yeah, I just Mr. Coleman, I just wanted to clear up a couple things about the master plan. The master plan is from April 2018. So we're actually on our tail end of the 10 year. We'll be starting revising the master plan as of
next year. So it's not relatively new. The second thing is in the master plan, it specifically identifies Morrison's Marina, not Queen City Marina. In 2018, when the master plan was approved, Morrison's Marina actually owned, and you can see
him on the uh on Mr. Stouts drawing there. They actually own block 148 lot 7 which was approximately 15,000 square feet and uh block 162 lot 7.02
and 7.03 which is approximately 10,000 square ft. So, we're talking about 25,000 square feet on the other side of Pennsylvania Avenue, which the ma that would make sense for the master plan to recommend residential houses in that
area, but nowhere does it say in the marine commercial district in the master plan to limit commercial activity in the marina. It wouldn't make sense to have a marine commercial district if that was the ultimate goal to replace it with single family homes. So, Mr. Coleman,
you also said that the master plan states that marine that the marina use is not incidental. It states clearly that the marina use is critical to the burough's tourism economy. So a subdivision like
this would permanently eliminate this large historical historical large vessel capacity of this marina. I actually did my own counting and it's about 97% of the slips are for
boats 26 feet and over. So historically that is going to [clears throat] limit the capacity of the marina as is. So I think that this subdivision undermines the intent of the marine commercial district [clears throat] and you know
once that upland storage land is gone ultimately larger vessel storage becomes impossible operational flexibility is lost the marina can never expand. So that's not the intent of the marine commercial district in the master plan. Um
when when did you hear any testimony in the la this meeting and the last meeting that large boat storage or large boats were being going to be eliminated? >> Well, in your caffer permit there's only
room for 26 feet. That's what your storage vessel capacity is >> or or or read or larger. But on the drawings, they're not or larger. They're only 26 feet. >> I I I I I've been abundantly clear,
respectfully, the council has zero zero control over how we store boats. How long do do you know? Do you know, Miss Balm Miller, um how long master plan h how many years apart a master
plan should be reviewed? >> 10. >> 10 years. When was the last master plan reviewed? 2018. >> How many years is that? >> That's eight. Eight years, >> right? >> Right. So, why am I not subject to your current master plan? >> I didn't say that. You said you said
that it was relatively new. I'm correct in you saying that we're on the tail end of this master plan and will we start revising it next year in 2027 for implementation and approval in 2028? >> Am I not subject to it now? >> I said that.
>> Am I not subject to it now? you are. And I'm asking you, is there anywhere in the U master plan that says the marine commercial district should be replaced by single family homes? >> I I I read your master plan. You you can interpret how you see fit. Um I'll
reserve like my comments. >> Okay. >> And also, um >> I mean, you you you essentially just told me that you're voting no. You just said you can't support it. >> Mr. Coleman, that's not what she said. >> She did. She she just said she I can't support this. I didn't put words in her
mouth. I said >> and her conduct, >> Mr. Riso >> will be called out respectfully the way you've approached this. >> That's inappropriate. [laughter] Don't Don't try to intimidate. >> I'm not trying to >> Don't try to intimidate. No, you're not going to protect I will.
>> I Gary and that's exactly what I'm doing. >> Okay. Well, please. >> That's exactly what I'm doing. >> The board members are not subject to cross-examination. They're not witnesses. Miss Bow Miller is one member of this nine member board. She's expressing her opinions.
>> She has concerns. She's allowed to. Some board members have concerns. Some may not. So there, we're going to take a vote. We're not going to sit here and make accusations against board members. She stated her opinions and concerns. You stated what you believe the master plan shows. We're not going back and
forth. This is not a courtroom. >> You're you're right, Mr. Riso. It's still a permitted use. It's still consistent with the master plan, but but when I get Oprah responses that one of the members of the board who happens to be the council president is encouraging
the board engineer to uh to deny the application. I if the rules are reversed, >> I disagree with your assessment. That's what was said in the emails. The emails speak for themselves. You got them. >> There's been no votes. So, you know what? It's premature. this discussion not take place.
>> You're right. >> I want to charge the board on what I believe the law is unless the board members have any other questions. >> I I want I have a question interpretation question in the uh >> I'm sorry, what question? Couldn't hear you. >> An interpretation question.
>> In the DP permit of July 23rd, 2026, it says you must have a minimum of 81 upland boat storage spots. Does upland boat storage spots mean onsite? >> Yes. Okay. So, it requires a minimum 81
upland boat storage spots shall be provided for boats 26 feet in length and longer and minimum of 12 shall be provided for boats less than 26 ft in length. >> Right. And I believe they testified that they had to have 90 I think it was 93
>> slips [snorts] were approved in the final permit. >> But I've heard some comments back and forth that the boat storage is not doesn't have to be on site. >> Well, you're right. It did say on land or in the water. I think that was part of the >> or offsite. >> Well, that's my question. Is it offsite
or or onsite? >> We're allowed to either store them in the water, offsite or onsite. >> And that's consistent with the permit that says a minimum 81 upland boat storage spots shall be provided. >> Doesn't mean that the boat actually has
to be stored there. >> Okay. Is that consistent with what? >> That's my understanding. And that's a state regulation. We have no control over that. That's beyond this board's jurisdiction. >> There were testimony here this evening [clears throat] that several of the larger boat owners said that we take our boats off site for servicing and
paintings. >> Anything further? >> Okay. >> Before we take a vote, I I want to um thank Mr. Coleman, thank Mr. went. Thank the members of the public. I think handle themselves extremely well and I appreciate that.
The application before you is for preliminary final major subdivision approval on amended site plan approval. We're talking about the subdivision to build the residential lots only this evening. We're not talking about the restaurant. We said that in the beginning of the meeting. I'll reiterate it now. And [clears throat] before I forget, I will state tonight for the
record. The applicant has filed an application for an extension of the approval for the restaurant and for its site plan approval for the restaurant. It was noticed for tonight that the applicant's request in order for the applicant to provide additional information. That application will be heard at our September meeting which I
think the first Monday is Labor Day. So that's >> Tuesday. >> Tuesday the seventh 8th 8th >> Tuesday September 8th. This is the notice. I'm announcing it here. The applicant need not provide further notice in the newspaper or to everyone within 200 feet. So everyone who's here
this is the notice. The restaurant portion of this application will be heard on Tuesday, September 8th. Back to this application is for preliminarium final major subdivision approval and amended site plan approval. The applicant bears the burden. Number one,
the burden of demonstrating compliance with the zoning ordinance, the subdivision and site plan standards, applicable design requirements. If they meet the burden, approval should follow subject to reasonable conditions. We talked about conditions of approval. for example,
the extra access, the width of the prior lane, etc. the um the wet line as opposed to the dry line. If they meet that burden, then unlike variances, the board doesn't have the broad discussion to deny conforming subdivision site plan based on generalized concerns. So
therefore, the board shouldn't deny an application because you don't like the project, you believe it's too intense in a general sense, or there's public opposition. Conversely, the board may deny the application if the applicant fails to demonstrate compliance with applicable ordinances or there are
material deficiencies that remain unresolved and are not reasonably correctable by conditions of approval or required outside approvals or design elements are so uncertain that the board cannot make an informed determination. In other words, denial must be tied to specific ordinance non- requirements,
not general concerns. The board may also deny the application based on specific safety concerns, but not general concerns regarding danger to the public health, safety, or welfare. As I've said repeatedly at all of our meetings, the board's decision and your vote should be based on the evidence presented during
the three hearings. You determine the credibility of witnesses. If for some reason you deem a witness not credible, that's fine. In rendering your decision, especially if your vote is to deny, you should say why. You should state your reasons why you're denying and state why
you found a particular witness credible and/or more specifically not credible. We've talked about conditions the applicants agreed to to comply with all the conditions of approval that were testified to at all three hearings. The bottom line for the board is this. Has
the applicant demonstrated compliance with the burrow's ordinances and can any remaining issue be addressed to reasonable conditions? If yes, presumably your vote would be to approve of those conditions. If no and there are material deficiencies, you can deny, but the denial has to be clearly tied to an
ordinance violation that was testified to and can be relied upon and pointed to in the record. So, it's either we're going to need and by the way, we have to take a vote. So, somebody has to make a motion to approve or deny this application and we'll go from there and
we'll do a roll call vote. And members of the public, regardless of the way the vote goes, I ask that you please respect the nine people that are going to vote on this application. They are here. They are volunteers. They are part of your community. They're doing the best they can under the circumstances.
>> Thank you. >> All right. Can I have a motion on this application for approval or disapproval? >> [snorts] >> I would motion to approve. Andy, >> can I have a second?
>> Second, Rick, >> can I ask a quick question on the motion? We have to decide what we're doing with the buffer. >> Yeah. A motion to >> Yes. Mr. Little raises a good point. We talked about the buffer where it exists or where it's moved. So, it's a motion
to approve at the buffer where it exists, which is Frank >> on the lot wide or moving into the marina at 5 foot wide. >> So, Andy, it was your motion. Either one. You have We have to pick one. >> You got to pick one.
>> Can I pick one? >> Yes, you can pick a suggestion. >> I made a suggestion that we move it in. >> Move it into the marina. >> Move it into the marina. Yeah, that's fine. >> Motion to approve it. Exception >> that's fine >> to the marina.
>> Okay. At 5 ft. >> Something else there. >> Yeah. He said all design requirements. >> Well, that's standard, but whatever codes, >> they will they will comply as Mr. Coleman acknowledged with all applicable standards, building codes, fire codes,
etc. They've already made the changes to the plans based on the fire chief's concerns, the deputy chief's concerns, etc. the deed restrictions will Well, now we don't have to worry about deeds restrictions because the buffer's been moved. So, that's a non-issue. >> Okay. Um, with that, Rick, you second
the motion? >> Yes. >> Okay. Now, we have a roll call vote. >> Mr. Bau, >> uh, I vote no. I'm against it. And, um, I'll just find the traffic study really deficient and kind of cherrypick some
data. Um, the the peaks time I don't agree with. And I also just found and find that um with each meeting we learned more and I don't think if we asked we kept asking questions we learn more you know from what other businesses what other operations I I vote no
because I don't trust that we've heard everything. >> Mrs. Foul Miller. >> Um I'm voting no because of chapter 179 subdivision of land specifically referencing the master plan.
>> And this application undermines the intent of the marine commercial district. >> Mr. Jenna, >> voting yes. >> Mayor Lambert, >> I'm voting no. Um, I went back and I
watched the meetings and the one thing that kind of struck me and I did mention this earlier was Mr. out when you said about the boats and how they're stored and you know they're basically emptied and then >> [clears throat] >> um when I questioned you the second time you deferred uh to Miss Marcus and
nobody seemed to know and it was just kind of like oh well and that it makes me uncomfortable that people are saying statements about you know what we're taking as expert witness and then you know again tonight I saw the sea containers and I'm like well have they
been factored into anything. There just seems to be uh as Mr. Balo said, the uses are kind of constantly changing whether you know there's weddings, there's not weddings, there's events. I I just don't feel comfortable with this. I think there are too many variables and I I'm upset that I couldn't get a
straight answer. So, no. >> Mrs. Leonard, >> yes. >> Mr. Lefredo, >> no. [clears throat] because of uh safety issues, traffic issues, the master plan, and the credibility of witnesses.
We've we've learned more and more uh every time we ask questions, and I don't know what we're not asking, what we're not learning, so I feel uncomfortable. >> Mrs. Mason, >> no. I found the testimony uncreditable
for boat sto regarding boat storage and no um regarding the uh marine commercial district and its um association with the master plan.
>> Mr. Tenquist, >> no. um because of the traffic study and the congestion that's in that area on any given day during the summer. Um and just
believing some of the testimony, I had a hard time, >> Mr. Wanganger. >> Yes. [clears throat] Main concern was complying with all the safety regs. >> You're vote but you're voting yes in favor of Yes.
>> In favor of Yes. That's it. >> There's nine. >> So, it's three us six against the motion fails. The application for the subdivision is denied.
>> Thank you. We're not finished yet. >> You could quietly leave the room, please, so we can finish our meeting. [snorts] >> Sure. I would motion to open to the general comments public. >> Is there anybody left in the audience
that would like to come up and talk about >> anything land use? No. And I don't see anyone on Zoom. All right. Can I have a motion to close? >> Motion to close.
>> A second. >> All in favor? I Next we have motion to I'm sorry. I'm sorry. >> Can I have a motion to adjourn the meeting, please? >> Motion to adjourn. Jerry.
>> All in favor? >> I