mayor Jacobs I am here hickey here Mr Walter here Mr Leonard here Mr rodelius here Mr G jini here Mr wild here chairwoman got you here adequate notice of this meeting of the Bedminster Township luse Board was filed with the
Township Clerk sent to the Bernardsville news and The Courier News and to all subscribers and posted at the township municipal building one Miller Lane Bedminster New Jersey on January 10th 2025 please stand for the
blooded States for it stands one nation under God indivisible withy and justice for all I'll open it up to the public if there's anything that like to make a
comment or question um that's not on the agenda open it up to uh online uh online we just have uh M Dr gaffas and uh Mr Colin so if either of you have something
that's not on the agenda that you'd like to discuss now please let us know you can unmute yourself or raise your hand no I'm just here rela to to the certified letter I received that had to do with the
application in the 200 foot list oh okay Ledger online and uh you'll hear the application okay uh we have minutes that we need to approve let me close it to the public um we have minutes uh from January
9th make a motion to accept minutes second all in favor anyone opposed I think everyone was hear that night I believe I just have Brian oh Brian right right Brian was not here okay you are
now good minutes are approved um New Jersey American Water I guess determination of completeness call yes Madam chair this is a application for a water treatment system to be installed
um at the uh New Jersey American water storage tank on the Hamilton Farms property they've had a special use permit for the system for a while they've run out of their time where they can continue the special use permit so they need to get a temporary Ty approval for that they're
Unsure how long it's going to have to be there um relatively simple application on a small portion of the property my letter identified a few very a few um waivers that were are required and subject to those waivers my recommendation that the application be
deemed complete okay if we need to approve it and we need motion mayor hii hi Mr Walter hi Mr Leonard hi Mr rodelius hi Mr djini hi Mr
wild hi chair Roman gcha hi uh they have already requested the April 10th meeting okay all right we have some new business uh we have the affordable housing Frank you going to be the
speaker on this well to the extent that we are in the process of uh responding to the requirements of the law we have accepted the number that came state so we are not one of the towns that are
being challenged by the fair share housing center to to reduce or change our number to increase our number so we're planning for a number 78 I believe it is 722 72 of course because everything divides into
16 and yeah n and eight uh so we don't have a heavy lift here but we we have a job to do and when I say we don't have a heavy lift I was in the process today of telling judge Jacobson about what a bad guess could mean for a town if you overestimate the affordable housing
obligation and I pointed out to her that you came out of that litigation that produced the hills with the court determining that you owed 819 affordable units a couple of years later the Council on affordable housing came out with a number for you and it was 155
units so you multiplied the 819 units by five to get what you thought you had to produce that's why we have almost 4,000 units in plab but you only would have had to multiply 155 units by five so long the upshot of all that is you have hundreds
and hundreds judge when we went to judge seratelli and after 698 of the 819 units were constructed and occupied and we said don't you think we did enough he said well it was beautiful because Henry Hill who that sued the
township was one of these people who had a private plane and to get to his private plane from his car he had this little motorbike that we go 35 miles an hour so he's going between his plane and his car balls off breaks his leg shows up in court with a cast on looking like
somebody just got you know looking sympathetic and Bedminster Howard cone makes this argument why we should have the reduction and hry jumps up and down and start says judge don't you remember who these people are and judge serpentelli
looks at him and says Mr Hill Bedminster probably has already done what they need to do through the year 2025 sit down please and he changed the number to time served so you like I said you've got a relatively narrow obligation but we do have to find the small number of family
rental units that are require you have family units all over the hills but they're not rental units so and that's what they have to be rentals the 72 have to be rental no not at all oh 25% of the 75
72 units have to be rentals and half of those have to be family rentals and some of the rentals can come through group homes and other types of non non-housing unit type bedroom type units so we're putting together a package of all that I'm not in a
position right now to tell you about that I should have sent you and I meant to when I told Janine to put this on the agenda send you the part of the housing element that you're going to find most boring because if you've seen them before you're going to realize that there are a whole bunch of pages that tell you everything we know from the
Census about income and demographic characteristics and household sizes and household characteristics and that's all the housing element part of your housing element and fair share plan the fair share plan part is the part that the mayor is has been focused on for a long
time where we've got to come up with the right way to add up the numbers but we don't have to get to a giant number but we have to come up with a smart way to do it and because I don't think I think we are right on tip of citing what that is I'm not going to speculate about what might end up in that plan but it's it's
not a big job but it's a job and we have to pay attention to it okay and oh so by way of what I forgot to send you you would have a day before the meeting which wouldn't helped much anyway have seen this probably 15 pages of stuff that will be the housing element portion
I give it to you now just so that when we go through the whole document toward the end of June you don't get all this stuff at the last minute and say what am I supposed to do office you'll find it Light reading take it in the bathroom inter Frank is there a deadline
on this we have to have our housing element adopted by June 30th June 30th and and this number 72 is that is that like a final number or this still up for debate no well we haven't we haven't debated it and fair share has not tried to raise it for us and for I it's ironic
but for all the towns that did debate the number and showed where developed Parcels were included in vacant land so they were wrong so they proved that DCA was wrong about certain things but then only those towns that did that had to
absorb whatever units got lost by everybody else so we had towns that proved that DCA was off by hundreds of acres and at the end of proving that they ended up with a higher number than they started with because the reallocation they still had a ton of vacant land anyway so the reallocation
put a lot of it on their plate you guys are so insulated from all that you know but you took a big you absorbed a big impact I think at one point many you know decades ago I calculated a $33 million direct impact that the local
government absorbed as part of what came with the hills you know and it those were in the days where you were being told you know the developer pays for everything and doesn't quite work but in any event some of the nicest people in your town came out of it some of them might even serve on the planning board
someday you never know you never know you never know so so I think for right now that's the short answer to what do we have to do uh you're going to see a document that will show you exactly what the obligation is there was a couple of months ago there were summary of what we have to do in
terms of the the way you meet the obligation the different parts you have to do but when I send the next one to you it will say here's what you have to do and here's how they're do it again I don't think it's you'll probably get that during April yeah you have to
so we have some more meetings to do but I think that for now for tonight's purposes I think that's unless you have questions which I'm happy to answer anybody else what's the definition of a family housing unit family housing unit is a unit that's not restricted by
age and it's not a group home or a you know in other words there are single accommodation type units but a one-bedroom unit a single person unit is still not a non-family unit so that counts it's not or is it is a it is a family
unit but but a bedroom in a group home is not part of a family and I'll break it all down for you and when you're done reading it all your eyes you know just be you have to be really comforted by the fact that there are
towns Hopewell Township where I work during the last round was in the process of absorbing 3,000 new units in a town that had 1,500 units before and now we've got that we're get told there's another 500 units and can multiply that by five so they absorb 25 years worth of
obligation in 10 years they did a bang up job you know some sometimes end up thinking they should have gone kicking and screaming and you have the luxury of Judge serpentelli saying you met your oblig you know if it was up to him we should have asked the have put it that in order because you have way more than
enough units but they don't all fit in the right Cate you know counting beans we can't count the right number of beans someplace over here so relatively small obligation but the mayor is like a hawk on us he's smiling I guess that's
good thanks Frank you're welcome thank you Frank okay oh yes our application here well we still have the state development so um state plan conformance well that's another you know
it's ironic how easy you have it compared to most municipalities because the process that we went through to get AT&T put into a center and to reew our plan endorsement which you had received years ago because the state Planning Commission found you to be essentially
consistent with the intent and purposes of the state plans and your policies to align with their policies so we went back through that process as you all probably remember after the 18th ke study to get the change that the mayor Lobby so that we could be eligible for
Aspire and some other beneficial funding and financing opportunities that would make AT&T more attractive because we did all that that template that I sent around the first part of it we've already the guy that used to be our
County planning director who's now the state planning director said you don't don't bother with the first part you just did all that tell us in the second part aspirationally what is it you think either the state plan needs to do what are the most important objectives that you have we've gone through this process
and shown the incredible alignment of all these things over a long period of time and and renewed that alignment and demonstrated it again and again and you have 10 acre zoning upheld in park because you were well aligned with the state plan so for towns that need to
have the state plan map changed this is the great opportunity without years of trying for towns like you that are pretty happy with what the state plan shows right now two centers and the rest of it's the country I don't know that we're looking to make any changes we decided a while ago we're not going to
opt into the islands for the planning area portion of town which is everything south of Potterville road so all the big Regional planning policy decisions you made were soundly made and it's not like we need to go remake them if you would
like me to before the next planning board meeting put together what I think are the answers to section two I I'm happy to do that I thought if we had a guided conversation about each of those questions and I took notes I might do a little better job of reflecting what you're thinking but I
kind of know what you're thinking because we've been doing this together for a while so I know we have an application here I don't want to hold up we could talk about this for a while if you'd like to and but whenever you'd like to um I don't know how you want to proceed with the application that's
well Larry and Colin aren't part of the application that's why we figured we would discuss this first if no that's F I'm sorry iost I wasn't thinking I wasn't thinking straight that's why Larry was smiling because he gets to leave as soon as I shut
up basic all right so this was the Bross acceptance that you guys all have in your packets and was sent to you and you're saying that we just need to look at question two section two first section that asks about all your planning documents and everything we
gave them all that already they know all that they agreed with all that we don't have to show them why we are consistent they just declared us consistent pretty recently what we really want now is to see if there's anything that plan doesn't do for us that they wish it did
or tells us to do differently than we want to do it and that's where I'm saying that this historical alignment that you've had for 25 years and the state hasn't changed the map at all so the things they're doing are adding some two additional policy areas but nothing
about what they were proposing before has changed really substantially the theory of centers and environs Countryside being those open areas that are supposed to stay undeveloped or low low development areas those are all still policies they're not necessarily housing policies in New Jersey but
they're State planning policies and they have been for a long time so you Frank says so after I guess it's section two um it goes through you prepare it gets blessed by the planning board at that
point does it get submitted to the to the county because the county is our is our uh negotiating negotiating exactly you got it there so at your next meeting we would you would approve something that I would
have written up for you and that would go directly to the county so they can submit it in time your next meeting I think is the third is it if we want to have a meeting on the third to just discuss this our NE next application is April 10th so again that'll be up to the board we can meet on the 3 just to
discuss this or we can do both on the 10 whatever the board decides or the door number three could be I write up what I think you want I circulated and the mayor solicits comments as long as you don't do something that resembles
a meeting because all as long as comments only go back from the members to one person could be me whatever we don't have to have a meeting for me to know that you're happy with it if you give me comments and changes I'll do this in the next couple of days right now I'm doing the speed dating job that
we have with the under the new housing reportable housing dispute resolution program I thought you were speed dating I don't know you want to announce that on seven seven retired judges are given two hour slots within which you
bring in people who are not likely to make any decisive action in two hours anyway because they almost diametrically are opposed and we have to get settlements in two hours so I have days in the next week where I have two days where I have three of those in a row
9:00 am 11: am 2 pm and it's really exciting because what you know when you see that much stuff happening that quickly you know you're alive I'll tell you that okay anyway U you're lucky that you're not involved in that process you
have a very straightforward process you have a plan that's 99% figured out and the other 1% will do the best job everybody here to capable so I I'd propose for the um cross acceptance with uh the state plan
that just as Frank said that he runs through these um he answers or proposes answers to these questions and then we discuss them at some meeting what's our timeline for they want this by April 5th that's why I thought April 3D was gonna
get us there but I really don't want to make you have an extra meeting for this okay so if you just got if you if you're good with you don't you don't need a resolution from the planning board to say go ahead and submit you'll just take
these comments and submit my representation will be accepted as the fact that you did so I'm personally I'm fine with that yeah will be emailed to us for review yeah absolutely and I'll give you a chance to comment back let's just have people only respond to me so don't reply
all and I'll take those comments and integrate them into one other so I'll get do one draft that you can make comments on another one that says here it is and that'll go to the C that'll be the thing that goes to that and we'll do all that well before April thank you I
appreciate that okay all right yep all right so our famous uh application here is back on for May 8th well we'll leave we'll leave so so just from planning board comments where you guys head to
board of adjustment welcome back Brian wild it's nice to see everybody that's it we had a nice vacation it's been a while
good night all all right guys I knew you look familiar I gave you six black pens I know you like to like to have your choice okay so uh as I was saying our famous U application here is now we scheduled for
May 8th have we had any progress or just still haven't heard a thing haven't heard a thing sounds wonderful okay all right we can uh go right ahead and U start our BB holding
application go right ahead good evening members of the board my name is Michael ogrodnik I'm a partner at savos shini Warner gespo grodnick and fiser in Somerville New Jersey I'm here on behalf of bde Holdings LLC on an application
for a D Floor floor arance ratio F variance and preliminary and final site plan approval with bulk variance relief and design Wafers we're tonight we're here tonight uh to propose the conversion conversion of an existing
commercial building previously used as a bridal Dress Boutique shop into a mixed use building with retail on the first floor and a two-bedroom apartment on the second floor the first floor is to be proposed as a high-end retail kitchen and bath Design
Studio as for bulk variances um variances will be required from the township of Bedminster related to the maximum floor area ratio where 15% is required 23.9% was previously approved
17.3% is existing and 22% is proposed the second bulk variance is a maximum lot coverage where 50% is required 64.1% was previously approved 63.1% is existing and 3
63.9% is proposed an additional variance under Section 13-4 45.5 e where a minimum of 15t wide buffer along common property line with a residential uses proposed and a 4.1 buffer buffer exists
for the existing garage to the rear of the property and a buffer of 1.1 ft is proposed between the parking area and the Westside property line the fourth uh bulk variance is under Section 13 45.6 for the proposed parking area or
driveway within 6t of any property line H again the parking area is proposed to be 1.1 ft from the West property line in addition to the bulk variances necessitated by this application there are several pre-existing
non-conformities uh of course this is a undersized historically undersized lot in this Zone um as you know it's 432 Main Street there is a minimum lot area um pre-existing non-conformity where .5
acres is re ired and we're at 0 296 uh to the deed line and. 223 without the right of way uh there's also a Min minimum lot Frontage where 90 feet is required and we're at 60.3 feet is existing and of course proposed we don't
intend to change any of that the minimum lot width uh 90 feet is required and 60 feet is existing and proposed the Side Y side side yard setback where 15 is 15t is required and 5.9 ft is existing and
proposed and the front yard setback where 30 ft or the average of the three closest buildings on each side of the printable building whichever is lesser which is 22 feet is required and 20 feet is existing and proposed and the last pre-existing non-conformity is accessory
building rear line minimum distance where 10 feet is required and less than 10 feet is existing and proposed consistent with the municipal L law land use law the state of New Jersey notice has been served Affidavit of publication is certified mailing to AB buding
Property Owners has been submitted proofs of affidavit sub publication have been submitted to the board staff and the county uh Somerset County approved this application via letter dated January 8th
2025 with me tonight I have Heddy Coleman um she is one of the owners of bde Holdings she operates creates a business known as Coleman Blau kitchens and baths previously in White House station for many years uh we also have
and she's just going to give a real brief uh description of what she does daytoday this is you know this is a a retail Design Studio it's appointment only things like that hours of operation um our civil engineer is Rudy
Holtzman uh he's our professional Civ civil engineer who prepared the site plan for consideration tonight Corey Fernandez is our architect we're going to talk about the first floor layout for the design studio and the second floor two-bedroom apartment where HEI intends
to reside and then we have Edward coing our professional planner to go over the uh proofs for the bulk variances that are necessitated by this application this was an approved approved by zoning uh it's a change of use application uh and and uh so we do have a couple of
witnesses I'll try to move them as quickly as possible uh but we do have these for Witnesses and unless there's any legal questions I would ask that either individually or collectively our uh fact and lay Witnesses be sworn in to provide
testimony okay if all the all the witnesses would raise their right hands please we swear them all in uh do you swear a firm that tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you God yes yes yes yes please
state your name please State your names and addresses Le the business address uh my name is hiy Coleman uh the business address is 432 Main Street in Bedminster will be 4 432 mainst stream Bedminster and we have very small
boutique Studio I have one employee more or less she does my c drawings my renderings otherwise the client will deal with myself uh pretty much how our business is operated I will again I do only recommendations who work with a couple of contractors and
Architects uh we we do not advertise we only open by appointment and since I'm the only person who does the um who deals with the client who helps with the design who helps putting everything together we
cannot handle a huge amount of kitchen sales so a client will call me and I will say okay let's make an appointment I need to see the house I need to see their lifestyle I need to know how many cooks are in the kitchen what do you want to do with your are Kitchen in the
future what's coming up the next 5 10 years will you move will you stay what is your budget and then I will get hired to to uh to work with them that's sometimes a longer process than one
thinks because a lot of things come up especially we do Renovations we're involved in with contractors Architects Renovations they can take from a month to a year or if there's an addition involved or a new home that can take two three years especially Shore houses so it's a
long-term process and we do a lot of our work is really done on site with the client it's much easier to be in their kitchen and to say okay this is 3 foot your new Range will be 3 36 in not 30 in or 48 in
and it's also easier to show them you know we need 42 Ines between the island and your sink wall and so forth and so on then being in the studio where the setup is totally different is a different setup it's just cabinets for show the quality the colors the door
styles the wood species and so forth and so on so I also go out on deliveries to make certain when the cabinets get delivered that everything is there I go out on the first or two St St of installation to make sure the installer understands exactly what he has to do
and that's pretty much what we do so we don't have a lot of foood traffic maybe three five clients a week Max it's also very expensive to do a kitchen we don't sell Imports we sell everything made in Pennsylvania so the kitchens are C the
kitchen is customer more expensive so with that said you know we don't have a broad spectrum clientele and we help the customer if needed to select the appliances we go to The Appliance Store meet them there we go to the plumbing fixture store we meet
them there they will buy Direct on their own we offer them our discount so you know helps them to get a better price and that's pretty much how we operate so it's a very small operation it's not like a Home Depot or l or you
know where you have and could you could you just speak to a couple of issues that were raised in the professional review memos um is there storage of any types of cabinets or anything like that on site so we will have displays inst stalled so the customer can open doors
can see the interior of cabinets the colors the species and so forth and so on we there is no way to get a kitchen delivered on into a location where we are the kitchen gets picked up at the factory delivered to the Chop side gets unloaded and we bring it into the
kitchen it's also a matter of damage as more as we handle that kitchen cabinet as more damage we can create so that's why I have always decided I go directly from the factory to chop side if we have to store we have the storage facility in Pennsylvania which is has to be climate
controlled so then they pick up from Factory go to the storage the cabinets stay there until the contract or architect course says we need the cabinets in a week and then they get delivered to the Chop side so we get door samples delivered we get little colors swatches delivered we get
literature delivered but we do not get cabinets or anything big delivered I couldn't handle it personally anyway so and in in the rear of the site there's an ex pre-existing uh building that's used as a garage and and would that be used for storage or would that be used
for parking that's parking to that was in the in the plan planning for us parking I have no further questions for the witness um you say you have a place in White House we have a place we sold it oh you sold it okay so that's gone yeah
okay all right any questions for will you also be living upstairs I guess this be I plan to yeah if you know I would like that's what I had in White House to it's very convenient to walk downstairs and work
you're well you would be the ten yes yes any other question FR just to clarify Tim's question py was nice enough to take me when I went from my site inspection she took me through the property so I saw the inside she has the the arrangement where there is no
interior break between the first floor showroom and walking up the stairs to her apartment so you would think you're just in one essentially continuous place even though there would be another way out on the top floor in the back for as part of the submition that she's trying
to do you would walk in and think you were in you would never have the sense that you're in a place with an apartment upstairs you just see a Stairway that goes up wide open into the rest of the space it's relatively incoherent I think you get what I'm trying to
say ordinarily you would have out outside entrances to a separate second floor and you would not walk through the front door into a separate space in order to get into your apartment so when you walk into this front door straight ahead of you is a set of stairs that
will take you up to her apartment and the rest of the first floor is the showroom in the other because I went by too there's two front doors though yeah one dog you can go into the showroom separate okay and then you can go into the apartment there two doors yeah yeah but they're connected
inside between we do have a fireball in between and a two hour and the fire rated ceiling and all that okay board any other questions I have a question for Paul okay Paul a
couple years ago refresh my memory maybe I'm incorrect did we not increase the F on VN Zone to 17 or 17.5 I I don't recall I we went through
some some changes in Fs in different places I I I change your calculations if it was yeah I don't I don't I don't remember Frank do you recall it I really don't I apologize I thought we changed up to
17 is there a way to check that sure I check it right now all that work all the red lines and all the we were back and forth yeah that was that was for lot coverage I know we did we did we did a long exercise of lot coverage it might be it might that maybe
I just wanted to double check the chart like this that was the OD nauseum pro project that was the fine engineering analys no I'm not talking about that one that's a different thing okay the work we had a committee myself
and Kathy and Doug Stevenson I think even I I'll look that up if they want okay why don't you continue and we'll research it and if there's no other further questions for our fact witness and our applicant we'll open it up to
the public and we'll see Janine if there's anybody uh yes so again we just really have uh Allison if you have any questions you can unmute yourself or raise your hand or you can wait to hear the testimony from the um other Witnesses I'm I'm just confused about
the address can you just tell me where it is relative to other structures on Main Street 432 Main Street I'm trying to figure out where 432 is I'm 395 Iris 405 at the
pharmacy so it's further down closer to the Firehouse is that it yes correct okay that's fine that's all I wanted to know thank you okay thank you 177%
177% a good memory good memory good we should change your calculations to your benefit a little bit a little bit appreciate it thank you okay um uh anyone else from the public okay I guess we can close it to the public and we can move on with our next
we so our next witness is our professional civil engineer Rudy Holtzman uh we do have um a site plan set that's already been previously submitted to the board I don't think we need to mark it as an exhibit it's the same exact drawings that were previously
submitted okay so do you have it electronically we do if you need it we do because the attorney's not going to be able to see the board okay sorry we don't do the boards anymore that's why I ask for everything electronically we have it great and I
also need um your your business address and the spelling of your last name please for the being sworn in it kind of got halfway and then we stop there thank you I believe
[Music] so uh no there is not you just have to log on to the website I mean go to the link for the for the zoom yes thank you you want to give us your name and uh
excuse me while we set up we can just um go over qualifications as a professional name address please my name is Rudolph hzman I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey um I have about
over 20 years experience in uh preparing site plans and I've uh testified in front of numerous boards um in the state of New Jersey including uh city of summit and uh Township of Bernards Madam chair we would ask he be uh accepted as a as a professional
engineer in the state of New Jersey any other questions Tom yeah well his qualifications are accepted but if Rudy would spell his last name that would be helpful h o l z m
NN thank you Rie and uh please proceed just gonna go through kind of may you repeating some of the uh dimensions instead of regulated and then um get into more about the site um
subject property known as 432 Main Street block 35 l 9 located DN Village neighborhood Zone minimum lot areas .5 acres and existing undersiz lot at
0.223 Acres so a little under half an acre um we're a little under 50% undersized uh minimum lot withd Frontage are 90t we are in existing non nonconforming uh as far as withd and
Frontage at 6.03 FT minimum side yards 15 ft uh we are existing not performing sidey yard at 5.9 ft front yard is 30 ft theage of three closest building on
either principal building which we calculated to be about 22 ft so we are an existing not performing front yard at 20 ft for that reason uh minimum rear yard is 35 ft we comply with that at
80.1 FT and those were all for principal building and as far as minimum accessory setbacks uh the minimum accessory sideline setback is p the existing patch garage complies at
13.99 FT the minimum rear y rear Lin setback for accessory uh it's 10 ft and we're non conforming at 7.93 FT so as mentioned uh previous testimony
by the applicant U she owns and runs pige cabinet renovation business at existing structure supposing the renovate second floor uh to two BS uh right now existing wood deck um in the process of being removed that you
see in the plan uh and the new deck stairs and AD Ada access will be installed that's the extent of us the site were really near near the building to provide that ada8 access existing parking lot it's not striped but will be
striped uh to show the uh a spaces that we calculated one which is the comp uh and as far as history of the project history of the site in previous NES similar projects before the board 2002
twice um and there were two resolutions uh granting variances first one her resolution of approval dated uh June 19 2002 the following vary for
granted lower area ratio not to exceed 23.9% lot coverage not to exceed 64.1% lot Frontage 60 .1 ft front yard setb back 19.8 ft right side yard setb back of 5.5
ft in addition that resolution rear yard set back 4.1 ft buffers of residential use of 1.1 and 4.1 ft and a driveway set back of 1.1 ft and then continuing later
that year similar project resolution approval dated oob uh December 18th 2002 the following variances were granted driveway width of 12 ft variance from providing curving on the entire property uh only on along the Eastern roof side
of building uh there's a lighting intensity variance shoe box pictures to be utilized uh there's a various brand for the absence of it delineated specific loading zone talk a little bit about zoning and maybe talk about that more and then for the width of the two
parking stalls in the garage to be only 8.5 ft um so that summarizes what previous resolutions granted as far as variances uh the current project proposes no
changes to the set V ability height um are calculations are you have as part of the uh building improvements so the new F and that's one of the reasons we're here is
uh 23.3% and the maximum permitted uh we had used the 15% number but I know the 177% number was just mentioned um I think we're still in in the same situation as far as um the variance
condition um because the existing F right now is 18.5% so again the F approved in 20 2 was 23.9% um and then going over to coverage
lock coverage existing 63.1% proposed loot coverage 63.9 and the lot coverage approved in 2002 was 64.1% so we are increasing the coverage um from the existing condition but we're staying underneath the uh approved lock
coverage from 2002 that variance that was granted all right so for this project the summ summarize uh the variances required um 15t buffer along the Comm
property line and parking area less than 6t from the property line are the variances along with the lot coverage and the use Varian will be dis discussed by the planner uh then design waivers existing driveway width less than 24 ft width uh the curving
throughout the parking lot uh the freestanding lights not providing freeing lights illuminate levels in accordance with the ordinance uh and two more design wers delineated loading space and and and the parking stalls that measure less than 9
ft in in the garage um so again the parking to summize parking eight existing um and seven are required and that the eight existing includes the one 8 space and the two spaces in the garage
as far as quantifying spaces um we received a review letter from Oswell engineering and um as as mentioned the a lot coverage variance is required because the coverage increase is increasing between
the previously approv variance um and then there's a lighting comment I'm not sure if we have a lighting consultan here we've engaged the lighting Froman to
design the uh lighting lighting for the site and and measure intensities what what I'm looking for is for the the lighting that's proposed to be shown on your plant and in that context I I looked at the lighting plan there
there's a lot of lights there uh given the type of use and it's going to be a a single residence use who can control the lights I think first off you can probably get W rid of at least one if not two of the building mounted lights on the
garage and then the lights will I assume be controlled by the occupant of the building so they don't have to be on from Dust Till Dawn like you would in a multif family a residential project certainly
we would certainly uh accept that as a condition to to your approval um you know we we had a meeting on this we can do timers we can do you know automatic sensor timers in general the ordinances an hour after the business closes is when they go out which for the most part
they'll be on for a couple of months of the year maybe that's fine does the board any any questions for Civ go ahead questions specifically you you are increasing the lock coverage and what changes are you
are being made to increase the lot coverage is it is it the back porch or I I I think they're about to get the exhibit up on the screen okay so if if he can share then you'll actually see might be able to see where this is going to be
happening okay the next question I have is in your floor area ratio calculation are you adding in the second floor or you did not add in the second floor well I would confir typically that
FL area ratio include second FL my understanding is it residential doesn't go into this but in the in the mixed use context it would it does yeah okay so question so there was an ordinance you did receive approval back
in 2002 because it looks like an old picture in this picture there there was work done on the home I guess since the 2002 approval is that correct yes it looks there was only approval um you received approval you
get a lot of but not not the mixed use approval but not the mixed use so our so Tom the variance here tonight is for a use variance or is it for the lot code is uh a d variance for floor area
ratio and a bunch of C variances as described and they're different than the prior variances so they need and they're changing the use so they need to address and get reliev for this particular
application to modify the prior approvals but prior approvals might be viewed by the board as helping their case yeah because if they're looking for a floor area Flor area floor area variance they
had received one and they haven't changed it really much since the last time I mean they're not well yeah I want to hear what I want to hear their architect explain what they are changing because they are they are changing something and also on the impervious
coverage they're changing something Rudy can you expand the image that's on the screen there and and show where the changes to the to the ground are um yeah the ground changes ground changes involve the realignment
of the stairs the deck and the parking to accommodate the Ada along with the the platform lift so they're really those elements right behind the
building um just no no parking lot or nothing in the front that's causing that uh change happen as far as coverage so it's really those limited items right right behind the building so confirm
you're saying it's the The Parking Spot the handicap parking spot the addition of that yes okay you look at it closely you had three parking spaces there before and you're turning it into two with the handicap and the and the aisle right
yeah there's a there's a little bit of a realignment there but there's nothing not too much significant um changes the parking lot itself and there there's some removal of coverage too you can see the existing Pap Lo to removed um so there's an attempt to
balance and still maintain the function that's required course access the increase is only 72 square feet I mean so you're you're adding the lift right and are you expanding the existing we're changing the shape of the existing
uh back porch to accommodate the lift yeah the stairway yes um and the deck um is to be removed in replac as far as the deck
expanding uh it's the same same size I guess why it's it's hard for us to to grasp this we don't really see a lot of existing documentation here in the background on this particular sheet some of some of the it are dash for example the existing P walk
through see what was done being removed and really that's the only item besides the deck which is being moved and replaced that's in the backro so so if I were to summarize the additional block coverage is to
accommodate the handicap access is that correct statement uh ABA lift a little bit of driveway pavement and building Edition so it's Quantified in the lck covered it's not only the a I don't want to say that
um all right I just wanted to okay thank you any other question for the engineer so I do have another question sorry but um two of your calculated parking spaces are the garage it's a
two-car garage uh are would these those be dedicated um for the apartment as far as I know I think we'll get into that a little more with the uh planning testimony but as far as I know that's an option
yes I think the property owner would like her car in the garage that's why she's saying yes from the third row right it's just that um customers do the craziest things and
they'll Park in the craziest places so um maybe not the garage is the best place for a customer arriving on this on the property to do I just want to kind of clarify that because we don't want anyone banging into the side wall of the
garage agreed given the nature of what we're hearing about By Appointment unless she has a whole family showing up in separate cars she's probably got more than enough parking spaces without the garage plus the one employee so it makes sense right and What's the total you had
eight did you say eight parking Serv correct seven required eight provided m okay okay do you have anything further
suiz okay anything from the board no no okay we'll open it up again to the public we no longer have any public no public okay that was
quick that's that problem okay no public I will close it to the public and I guess we can go with our next witness thank you madam chair our next witness is Corey Fernandez our architect and a part-time uh it guy for this
application it's his age they're all thanks for setting that up Corey please please uh spell your last name and give us a business address Fernandez f r n a nde
z um business address is 50 Division Street Suite 501 Somerville New Jersey thank you and uh we need some qualifications for Corey because I don't think he's
testified before us no I have not I'll be happy to do that so I am a licensed architect uh my license is in good standing uh I graduated uh here in New Jersey at NJIT in
2013 I am the owner of the practice total architecture and uh myself along with the firm have appeared before um boards uh throughout New Jersey neighboring communities to here um rare
Warren Somerville um and uh also licens in in New York in South Carolina Madam chair we would ask that he'd be accepted as an expert in the field of
architecture I believe so yes yes he will thank you uh so I'll I'll go over the building plant and and hopefully clarify by some of the questions I think that were being asked before um I've I've been working with Hy I think for over a year now then
there's um some clarifications I think will help the board understand the project so the first floor kitchen retail um is approved for construction it didn't require any variances it was um uh in line with the zoning code and
she's currently undergoing construction to fit out that space um the reason we're here is for the second floor apartment uh and and part of that apartment is an addition to make the the
um the apartment the the space up there larger so if if you guys can follow my my pointer here so this line right here is the existing back of the building on the second floor and it's directly over the retail selection room which is existing on the
first floor so the project is proposing to add a a second story Edition over this retail space u that extends out towards the rear yard as uh none of that would add any coverage what's adding the coverage is a new coverage stair which
is being placed here in this corner of the building which is existing so this coverage stair uh is covering existing um prvious coverage so I I I hope that that clarifies so I'll just zoom in here uh
so you'll see that the the first four plan all the lines that are gray basically mean it's it's existing in place uh and then all the lines that are dark and filled in is new construction proposed as part of this site plan review uh the deck you'll see is also uh
dark the deck is being proposed um to be finalized under this site plan review but the deck has already been approved by the Zone by zoning and can be constructed now as part of the project that she's currently fitting out um so I'll take you through the the second
floor here and the um goal of the project uh the goal of the project is that uh Hy would like to um owner occupy the space um and in order to do that or turning it into a two-bedroom apartment
um there is a an existence stair at the lower left hand side here which comes up into the apartment uh from the first floor which we can see here so you would enter door go up the stair to the apartment and then we're proposing a secondary stair uh to leave the rear of
the apartment and that would be uh more accessible for he since she'll most likely be parking in the back in the garage instead of having to walk around the whole building she would have the um the stair to get up uh it's a it's a modest apartment um I think it's around
1130 ft total um the you know a smaller kitchen and dining area towards the front of the home the bedrooms towards the back of the home um and a living space in between uh there's an existing walk up attic um which isn't going
undergoing any um alterations as part of the uh the proposed project so we're looking at existing roof plan the left so everything from this line down is existing and then everything from this line up is proposed so looking down on
the roof that would be the new you know shingle roof we're looking at and then uh to the right is a 3D view of the back so this shows the basically everything here up is the addition the proposed
addition uh H was adamant that the back of the house look as attractive as the front of the house so we took a lot of time uh to to bring some elements into design uh that are um um mimic the you
know the some of the details on the front of the home and also some other details found throughout the township um and uh the deck is is there for both um be used to access he for residential and also people that park in the back for
the commercial aspect will also use the deck there're I'm showing the Ada lift um that's required as part of the accessibility for the building and these are the elevations the front of the home nothing's changing the back of the home
uh we can see the new stairwell and then this would be the addition uh this this side of the home on uh yeah we're looking at the the stairwell here two windows and this side of the home we're not really scene or the building rather any of the
alterations um I'm sorry this this corner right here would be the addition so um that concludes my testimony if anyone has any questions how much this on the second floor the additional how much additional
square footage that is that about 432 square feet 432 so that still only brings it up to 23.9 FL ratio 23 so it was
23.3 okay so a little that was the previous approved floor area ratio so the the last owner who came here and got approved for that amount never constructed any of the work that they were approved for yes and and at that time things were
like different parts of the building and garages that were included in that number the definitions of change then the last one is how do you get into B one yeah that was gonna be one of the door you the door there might be
an architect on the board oh yeah okay we're missing the door but yeah go bedroom one yeah okay yeah from bedroom the window wait maybe somebody really likes being in the B what is the total square Footers of
the apartment in total 1132 including the covered stair and then the attic above is is unfinished completely right yes okay uh another question I had that I have too is is bedroom 2 meant to be a like an on
Suite because you got you got a lot of doors going on there and there's no closet directly off the bedroom because I I see you have sort of like a Jack and Jill set up so that you can get into the bathroom from from the living room yeah the idea here is that bath number two would also be the public
bathroom for any guest in in the house as well but for day in and day out use or a guest living in the house they would have quicker access to it it might make sense just to have the corridor you know the door right into the bathroom from the corridor put the closet in the
bedroom and and not have the door from the living room I'm just thinking just to clean it up a little bit not have so many doors you're talking to an AR go yeah right I was just looking at it seemed kind of like the layout seems a little you know yeah Hy not well Hy as a designer as well went through this
layout a few times and I think this is the one that she just just some suggestions yeah but you probably you probably will need to have a closet off of that bedroom unless that's considered not sweet I didn't the call bedroom that that closet could that
closet um you know have the door into the bedroom there right walk right off the bedroom unless it's like trying to do an on Suite type of thing I don't know why don't you describe when you say an on Suite I'm not sure if everybody know well like is it a CL is the bathroom is it you know sometimes like
is that closet dedicated for that bedroom or is it like a central closet you know because I know to be called the bedroom you have to have a closet right if you think when you walk through that door that you're saying is unnecessary mhm you're now in that bedroom number
two sweep so the closet is in the suep yeah that's what you meant by well put it into the suep the closing that door means once you're in there that's the bathroom and the closet for that bedroom right yeah right so I think that that's coherent anyway it's just it's just something you'll probably have to
explain you know when you when you file for that's all to figure all that out head is this building currently vacant it's currently under construction it's on so it's un occupied how long has it been un occupied I didn't hear we can't hear so
I I believe it's somewhere between the five and six years had he purchased as a foreclosure right anything else from the board the materials that will be used would be similar to what's currently on the building can you just go over what materials are is it is it vinyl hearty
it's a it's a wood clabber oh it is wood CL yes and you're gonna continue with the same yes yes do you have to go in front of the historic any comments where there I didn't see that document actually yeah we supposed to
get that document yeah I know it's all on the website I'm sorry so that's what I tried to tell you guys is that the I send you the the new document everything else is on the website every site plan every HPC all those things listed on your agenda that are in green are on the
the website and all you have to do is click on it and probably that from from because you can get to it from the township website you can also get to it from the township HBC yeah but they they blessed everything everything was any comments any specific
comments did you see I didn't see that probably just that I would imagine yeah when did you guys go to the HC he's been there many times the last one okay when's the last time you saw the um
historic preservation committee uh that's on the actual yeah it was towards the fall I believe yeah but also for the lift yeah yes okay also um signage I'm assuming
she'll be putting sign out had she gone to the sign um to the historic commission for sign approval this so you will be probably need to do that because this is a historic district yeah and all signage has to be approved by the historic uh committee as well for
signage I'm sorry so yes it was it was May 9th uh p house body first and blue I can I can pass this around if you'd like to see um they have colors listed the h p HPC approved the application as
presented with the colors citing Capital white PR excellent color selections to see um how about Landscaping I know landcaping plan on his that's something you'll go over or
we can prepare an exhibit um okay thank you okay you're not really doing other than than painting you're not really doing much else to the front of the building corre that mean I mean the whole new
facade is in the back facing qu is this existing or something you propose these were planted uh they're not quite as big as these illustrations okay um but just just for the record for for Tom's help I'm gonna say we're going to call this
exhibit A1 and put the date on it it's it consists of four different pages and if you can describe what they are sure it's a just a land it's a landscape design identifi in the species and location for the proposed
Landscaping on the facades uh specifically the uh color spires Indigo Girl Salvia boxwood Green Mountain boxwood the blue princess Al and the Limelight panicle hydrangeas
that have been planted yeah okay and the lighting I know we talked about it a little bit but is it going to require a commercial lighting in the back and down lighting or it it'll it'll be shielded lighting and what my recommendation there was a lighting plan
submitted and it was a little overdone and my suggestion was to take the lights off of the garage and not install those because there'll be plenty of light in the parking lot given the low use and the fact that this isn't going to be used much at
night yeah we'll just update our plan and submit it to your engineer just for final approval as part of the res okay anyone more from the board any more question
no okay I think we can open it up to the public we have any public come back all right our Final witness is Edward coing close it close it to the public yeah that's okay all right yes we have Edward coing he's a professional
planner in the state of New Jersey I would ask that he gives a little bit of his educational experience his active lure as well as boards that he's appeared before we just have the spelling of your last name Person the business please the name and address on
no okay the uh my name first name is Edward last name is coing that's k o l l i n g uh graduated from workers in 1974 so it's a couple years ago um I have uh been active in the
field of planning since that time I've been licensed since 1983 also certified as a planner by the American Institute of certified planners uh since since that time um in the way back machine I was director of planning
in Jersey City during the 1980s the 1990s I was the director of the economic development uh division or Department in the city of Elizabeth um I was a uh a principal in The Firm of fellows reading Associates
in Tom's River for a number of years more recently in The Firm of drar Robin in Jersey City um I'm now now mostly retired um and do some practice on my own my address is 123 oakill Avenue in
Long Branch New Jersey and um I've appeared before boards throughout the state of New Jersey um I would enthusiastically recommend that accept you apparently know this this gentleman uh his reputation precedes him in
yes okay so um what struck me is that this project seems to be exactly what the town is looking for in the in the VN uh Zone um it's it's a um use of an existing
structure that's been there for many years an historic looking structure um it it has the both uses that are being proposed are permitted and the mixture of uses is permitted provided there's only one uh dwelling unit um as the
board has discussed there this was the subject of a uh a variance application and approval uh number of years ago 2002 um resulting in a I believe a bridal shop occupying uh the site uh at
the time the addition that increased the floor area was going to be uh on the back and would have covered where the deck had been uh before and is now proposed again it was demolished because of some structural issues and my
understanding is and so now it's being reconstructed the other thing that contributed to the floor area from my review of the plan was that the front porch was going to be enclosed I assume was going to be some kind of display area and that that wasn't done and I think that was a good thing that it
wasn't done because I think that would have been disruptive to the architectural character of the of the building uh so we are here not for techn a technical use variance as in requesting a non-permitted use it's a D4
for the floor area ratio uh previously what was approved was 23.9% and that was because again the building being ex extended footprint bring uh increased in the back that was not constructed and then also for the uh
covering the porch which would have added to the floor area in in in my uh my opinion um the other thing that we're that this application is changing somewhat is the is the coverage and the previous coverage well you know I'll get think
I'll get to that later I think it's 63.9% was what was um previous application was 64.1% we're we're requesting slightly less 63.9 and we'll get this I'll discuss why
the that occurred um but I think the engineer covered it for the for the most part um when I looked at the uh uh the Google Earth photos and street views and things like that those those photographs of there
were somewhat older than what you seeing today what you see there now and of course that the building seemed to have declined it was in pretty bad shape um and I think what the applicant is doing really is very consistent with what your your master plan is is recommending
um she's been to the historic uh uh historic commission she's using the right colors renovating the porch the porch will be maintained that's consistent with the character of the street as far as I could see with many of the buildings do have the porches so I think everything that she's doing is
really very consistent with the intent and purpose of the Zone plan and of of of the master plan um so this this application um does not Envision extending the footprint of the building it'd be a very slight increase
in the footprint and that's for the stairway that provides the second uh means of egress from the building um that's going to I think assist in meeting fire codes and things of that nature so it really does improve the the safety of the occupancy for that second
floor so I think that's a a positive aspect of what's being proposed um the rear deck uh has been demolished and is being reconstructed to code the footings are in and they're continuing to do that as the architect mention that's been approved by construction so
that's all I think is also con uh cons consistent makes the building uh safer improves accessibility which is also being primarily assisted by the um the lift that's being installed so I think that also is a very positive aspect of
this application is improving the handicap accessibility um so what ends up happening is that the resulting floor area ratio is 22% Now versus the 23.9% uh the reason why it's increasing
over the over over the proposed is partly because of the lift which again is a positive aspect partly because of this the covered stairway which is also I think a positive aspect because of improving safety um there's other things that were rearranged on the site remov
of some hard surface that the uh engineer referred to and also some cleaning up more or less I would say of the the parking area to make sure that everything meets the width of the for the parking spaces um speaking of which
uh seven are required eight are proposed and the two in the garage will be used my conversations with the applicant will be used by the residential unit 1.5 are required by the
rsis and two are proposed so you'd round up anyway so that's that's covered and the uh commercial would require five so the total would be seven and we're proposing uh eight I'm that's I'm sure more than enough given the way this uh
facility will operate as as Hedy has um has has mentioned um in terms of the uh that D4 variance the proofs really re revolve around kendes site accommodate
the additional coverage without substantial detriment um to his Zone plan the intent and purpose of the master plan uh or to the general welfare of the public good and I think certainly by looking at how this is being arranged
footprint is not being expanded it's all going to be within the the footprint on the on the second floor it's lesser than what it was previously approved it it occurs in the rear of the building doesn't doesn't impact at all the the appearance of the building in fact this
design I think is a much better approach to design than the previous one so you take all those things into account I think that we've met the proof for the granting of the D4 variance in that the the site can accommodate the additional coverage um uh without any substantial
detriment and in fact this project General I think really advances the recommendations the intent and purpose of the Zone plan and the master plan if we go through the coverage um the previous variance was
64.1% uh the new application is slightly less um 0 2% at 63.9 it is a slight uh increase over the current coverage of 63.1 i as I pointed without this extra
coverage is partly because of the second means of egress to the second floor partly because of the the deck being redesigned to accommodate the lift partly because of the rearrangement of some of the parking to accommodate the handicap space so I think when you take
all that into account the benefits of this variance really outweigh any any any detriment uh and the project in general certainly has has the benefits in terms of its its uh being consistent with the intent and purpose of the Zone plan do you have the
um sub paragraph two 2A talks about promoting the public health safety and general welfare I think providing the handicapped accessibility certainly covers that uh 2B talks about securing better safety relative to providing a second means of inrease egress from the
second floor so I think we promote that purpose so when you look at the purposes of zoning the intent and purpose of the Zone plan and the master plan I think we promote all of that and the the detriments are negligible if if any so
the C2 criteria would certainly apply in in this case the other previously granted bulk variances or pre-existing non-conforming conditions they are not being worsened they were previously granted um the building obviously didn't
change didn't get any bigger or smaller the lot doesn't change I think everything is the same as it as it as it was and if anything as I've been pointing out this particular project I think improves the conditions in terms of appearance so we're promoting
subparagraph 2i including securing safety in terms of the secondary means of eress including and and also including the public accessibility so all of those other bulk variances that have really been previously approved that have not been exacerbated in any
way by this application I think can be continued and and uh and and approved again because of the the C2 criteria the benefits of this project but also in terms of the hardship because they're all pre-existing conditions and you
wouldn't want to do anything to really change this building or the site because I think it is well suited for for what for what it's been doing and it's well um it fits well within the context of the VN Zone
and that uh pretty much summarizes my testimony very nice anybody any board any questions no no okay we again open it up to the
public no public H still no public still go public nobody's come back okay yes fine I'd like to just say that I find the testimony we just heard compelling I agree that the property was allowed to fall into disrepair having looked
closely at it it's been it's being meticulously put back in good condition and it is a combination of uses that we intend there so the fact that this lot's thinner than a couple of lots next to it uh with houses similar size means that
things on this lot are going to have those kind of numbers because the the lot size but I think it's skillfully done I think it's certainly attractive I wish more people would actually see the back of the building it's pretty nice looking rear of the building so I agree with everything we just heard I think
it's very nice project very nice um so if you have anything else that concludes Our Testimony I appreciate all your volunteer time and uh you're we would ask that the board uh look favorably upon this application
okay any board have any comments they to make I would just say I just say it's I think it's an approv ment over the previous approvals and I would welcome Mr Coleman or business B I think that be great thank you I think it's very nice project okay the board the board is
ready you if the board is ready you could consider a motion to to approve the u d variances the C variances the site plan as discussed this evening for the with the conditions uh of Paul and
Frank's reports and uh the condition discussed tonight of the U compliance with the landscape plan and the submission of the lighting plan for review and approval by the board engineer this approval will be effective
this evening so the applicant is authorized to proceed uh continue proceeding effective immediately provided all other requirements are met is there such a motion motion approve I'll second
hey Janine Mr Walker hi Mr Leonard hi Mr rodus hi Mr gini hi Mr wild hi chairwoman g hi thank you for your time appreciate congratulations and good luck Lu Lu
welcome job okay if there's any comments from the board of adjustment comments no and we need a motion a motion so unless something comes up I don't believe we'll have an April 3rd
meeting since Frank is going to send you all hopefully he will blind copy you so that you will all just be responding to Frank no one else he'll then send us over what the results of that were and hopefully we'll be able to approve that
so that it takes place before the April 5th deadline Isa i' put a deadline for me to get you the first version of that by a week from today and the second version of that before the end of the month so that Reon Tu or Wednesday I start bothering
you I volunteered for that so that's good thank you for that to get to me by Thursday and then you guys will give your comments and we'll have that done hopefully the week before still without having to worry about the meeting everybody's okay that not meeting on April 3 and we will have our application
on April 10th yep one less meeting thank you thank you any other projects down coming down the Pik um we have another variance application that just came in um you remember what it's for they haven't opened it up yet we have two so
we're going to hear American Water next week it's wants to put in charging stations uh that one hasn't come yet we have the the homeowner 120 Pottersville road that has a single family they want
to do an addition in a detached garage and then the 1X on the 30 Washington Valley I believe that's the one across from that's the charging stations right that's the one you gave me tonight uh yes the C varant but mainly that's this the charging stations are part of it but
it's also because the interior yeah they built a convenience store and they never came it's been there for 20 years but they added on all of the um our zoning officer openly and wantedly allowed that to continue they never came to
thisas station across so they never came to anybody and put in all the refrigeration unit you know we all used to go in and maybe there was some gum and you know you could tobacco products now there's all sorts of refrigeration and it
so so it's way more than charging me it is way more than charging um and those two we will when Paul tells us they are ready to go and then yes I gave out on you and then I'll give you another and
then um of course we have alfier which is supposed to be May 8th but that will prob which year she heard nothing very good point Frank um I understand that a Le are uh
apartments on um Main Street there um has a has a commercial tenic yeah there's a dentist yeah and he's taken quite a bit of the space what I understand well that's good yeah toal he took most of the of the
commercial space yeah that's most of yeah that's was 4800 wasn't it that's good yeah I think there's still 1800 rent all their Apartments yeah oh yeah yeah yeah the apartments are yeah they they told
me they're all rented there good and so this was a a very pleasant surprise to have a dentist take most of that space great well the other thing is everybody was making comments about how unlikely it was that that would ever be a viable retail space and I'm not going to challenge that thought you know who
wants retail there well if you don't get retail there and you actually have a use that can fit it's not a terrible thing at all yeah that's a nice use it's a rable and a service in the community absolutely comination great are these from outside the area or I I don't know
who the dentist is I don't know I I don't know who it is I just heard that it um he was taking want hear a Turf War coming is that what you're saying trying to get that information physical all right so I
guess we had a motion second motion second and we oh bye Tom night everybody night good night job boy