Yes. >> Want me to stay longer? He'll stay. >> Really? >> Thank you. >> Mr. Walter >> here. >> Mr. Leonard >> here. >> Mr. Rodelius >> President. >> Mr. Gini >> here.
>> Mr. First >> here. >> Mr. Wild >> here. >> Chairwoman Gutshot >> here. Adequate notice of this meeting of the Bedminster Township Land use board was filed with the township clerk sent to the Bernardville News and the Courier News and to all subscribers and posted
at the Township Municipal Building, One Miller Lane, Bedminster, New Jersey on January 9th, 2026. Please stand for the flag of the flag, United States of America and to the republic for it standy
and justice for our >> I'll open it up to any public comments or questions. do not pertain to the agenda. There's anything anybody wants to talk about. Uh if you're online, you can either
raise your hand or unmute yourself. If you're in the audience, you can come up to the podium. There's a handheld mic there for you. I believe everyone that's online is either one of our professionals or one of theirs. >> Okay. All right. Then I will close it to
the public and we will um look at our minutes. March 5th, you've had a chance to uh review the minutes from March 5th. >> I'll make a motion to approve the March 5th minutes. Second. >> All in favor? >> I.
>> Anyone opposed? Uh >> no, we're good on that one. >> Okay. And uh we have minutes for March 12th. I'll make a motion to approve the Marshall minutes. George
approved health officials around >> apologize really here. That was the comic relief. >> And Santa Claus is looking pretty good right now. >> Yeah, I know.
>> Okay. So, all was in all in favor except for Steve had Yes. Right. Thank you. >> Exactly. >> Okay. Okay. And we have some correspondence uh from a country club uh 305
uh requesting an extension. >> Uh Paul, do you want to say anything about that? >> Uh no, I don't really have anything to say. That's a um it's a I think a fairly routine uh extension. They've been hung up quite a bit quite a long time within
D on getting their approvals. I think Tom has a um a resolution prepared. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, we can move to resolutions. Yeah. >> Uh so, we need to take a vote on that.
>> No, that >> Yes, that that would be good. I recommend it to you. >> That resolution is the the third one on the list. The first one is for AT&T. If we could go in order, that would be fantastic. >> Okay. Well, we will do it that way.
All right. So, we have a resolution for AT&T. That was uh we heard >> at the March with me. >> Yeah. It's a March meeting. >> I'll make a motion to approve resolution 20268.
I'll second. >> Okay. Uh Mr. Walter. Hi, >> Mr. Leonard. >> Hi, >> Mr. Rodelius. >> I have to recuse myself. >> Thank you, >> Mr. First. >> Yes, >> Mr. Wild. >> Yes,
>> Chairwoman. Gotcha. >> You forgot. >> You forgot Lou. Oh. Oh, goodness. >> I have that. >> Chairwoman Gota. >> Hi. Okay. Resolution is approved.
Uh, Somerset Airport resolution to vote two. >> Yep. Motion by me on the airport. >> Second. >> Mr. Walter. >> Hi. >> Mr. Leonard. >> Hi. >> Mr. Vilius. >> Hi. >> Mr. Djini.
>> Hi. >> Mr. First, you were not here for that one. >> Mr. Wild. Hi. >> And Chairwoman Vetel. Hi. Okay, we're back to uh the country club 305 resolution 20 2610.
>> Do I hear a motion? >> So moved. >> I'll second. >> Mr. Walter. >> Hi. >> Mr. Leonard. >> Hi. >> Mr. Radelius. >> Hi. >> Mr. Gvenini. >> Hi. >> Mr. First. Hi.
>> Mr. Wild. Hi. Chairwoman that. Hi. Okay. Uh we have uh a determination of completeness. Uh Paul. Uh >> Madam Chairman, this is an application for the Hogland property on um on Bert Mills Road. Uh it's a request for an
interpretation of a prior uh variance resolution adopted by the board of adjustment back when it was a separate board of adjustment. um and they've submitted the documentation appropriate for a review and it can be deemed complete.
>> I guess we need a roll call. >> Yes, >> Mr. Walter. >> Hi, >> Mr. Leonard. >> Hi, >> Mr. Odelius. >> Hi, >> Mr. Gvenini. >> Hi, >> Mr. First. >> Hi, >> Mr. Wild. >> Hi, >> Chairwoman. >> Hi. Um I've asked them when they'd like to
schedule. Um there were some medical issues with someone uh involved. So they are going to let us know when they are ready to do so. So as of right now they have not scheduled. >> Okay. All right. All right. Um
anybody on the um planning board have any comments or things they want to talk about? No. Seeing none, we'll close that. Um
20 Route 206. I don't even want to talk about >> October. You might like to. >> Yeah, >> they did call and ask when they could be put on the agenda. >> Oh, that's amazing. Um, it was uh the problem was that when I sent them the reminder email telling them all the
things that we still needed from them, I then got dead silenced. So, we're kind of back to where we were. >> Okay. All right. Uh, so now we can start with our application on bed one.
Good evening. Lawrence Escatalo with Tulso Law Firm appearing on behalf of the applicant SK Bedwan Associates LLC. I have u no introduction from myself tonight but I have with me Noah Chrismer from Kerry who's going to uh be our
first witness. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh Mr. Chrismer, please raise your please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you God? >> I do.
>> Thank you. Please state your name, spell your last name, and give us at least a business address. Great. Noah Chrismer. C H R I S M er business address 515 Marin Boulevard, Jersey City 07302.
>> Okay, go right ahead. >> Great. Thank you. Um I want to thank the board for having us again. Um and I'm going to keep this very brief uh and then hand it over to to Chris, my colleague here. So we brought the plan that you're going to see tonight. we brought before you at the end of last
year in sort of a concept review and we received a lot of good feedback and in the four or five months since then we have incorporated that feedback and further refined the plan and the product of that is what you'll see tonight. The board will remember that from the prior approved approved plan that we are now
amending there were three main changes. One was that we reduced the number of overall units while increasing the number of affordable units. Uh, in doing so, we removed the podium from the parking and went to surface parking. And finally, we kept the bank as a standalone building that will be
subdivided on its own parcel. Um, Chris is going to walk everybody through that plan in detail and remind everybody of the numbers and talk about the site layout again um and and run through that plan. And then I know Mark is going to get up and update everybody on really
the the site concept and the refinement of the site concept and the architecture um which as you can see uh on the screen has turned out lovely and is consistent I think both of the previous approval uh and improves upon it in many ways and and certainly consistent with what we showed you guys at the end of last year.
Um after that we're going to have expert testimony on civil landscape traffic and planning. Um and that'll that'll wrap us up. Um, but again, want to thank you for having us and then I'd like to hand it over to Chris, unless you guys have any questions for me. >> Nope. Go right ahead.
>> Great. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh, our second witness is Christopher Fairfield from the KRE group. >> Thank you, Mr. Fairfield. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear from the to tell the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you God? >> I do. Thank you. And please uh state your name, spell your last name, and give us at least a business address. >> Christopher Fairfield, F A I R F I E L D. Click the town. Uh my business
address is 515 Marin Boulevard, Jersey City, New Jersey 07302. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. So, um, as Noah mentioned, I'd like to just or reorient the board, um, with our site here. We were previously in front
of you in 2021 and received an approval on a similar project, but a more intense project, and we've gone back, as Noah's mentioned, uh, and changed some of the aspects of the job. So, this property was developed in the mid 1980s with an
office building. It's about 170,000 square ft. You can see it there in the white uh with the in the bottom portion of the site. Um that building has two parking fields, one to the south and then one above the pond and kind of where the the triangle of the site is uh
which is the northern parking lot and the site of this redevelopment. In anticipation of this project, we've been monitoring those parking lots to see their occupancy. Um, the office building is currently 95% leased and the parking lot to the south is about 60% used most
days and the parking lot to the north has 10 to 20 cars in it. That's it. Um, as part of this application, we do have plans to replace every single parking spot in that north lot, but on a phased basis as deemed necessary by the teny and occupancy of the building. So, just
wanted to get that on the record that we have been monitoring it over the last few months and the upper lot is very minimally used and there is space in the lower lot. We will probably go through with um one of the earlier phases of the parking but not necessarily all of them right at the start. Um, also existing on
this property is a standalone Bank of America building which is in the upper left corner of the site. And one of the uh one of the other major things that have changed since the original approval is that that building is now to remain. The original approval had that bank being incorporated into the mixeduse
building. And by leaving it remaining and existing, we have triggered a use variance because within this zoning ordinance, um a standalone bank building is not permitted. However, a bank with a drive-thru incorporated into a mixeduse building is. So, it's sort of a nuance
here. Um, and that's why we're in front of you guys as the uh, zoning board with the Bank of America. They've recently signed an extension for another five years um, with options to stay for several more extensions beyond that. Uh, they are aware of our redevelopment. We
began negotiations with them under the original application. We've kind of put them on pause here while we await the determination of this board and some of our other third party approvals. Um, but we do have phasing plans to keep the bank open throughout construction. We are reconfiguring some of their parking
fields and closing their dedicated exit directly onto Burnt Mills Road. So, we will go from three curb cuts that are present today down to two in the final condition. There are no structural changes proposed to the bank or its drive-throughs. They will maintain their four drive-through lanes that they have today, and that's the best way we can
see to keep them operational throughout construction. There's also another bank on the site in the upper right corn well not on the site adjacent to the site in the upper right corner the Chase Bank on lot 13 that's owned under different ownership but there is an egress a means of egress
which is our second curb cut um that will maintain we have also begun negotiations with them with the original application that will be maintained throughout construction uh so that they maintain their egress and we will amend the easement that we have in place in order to fit the new geometry. Uh Rob
will go into more detail on all the engineering. What John has now up on the screen is our proposed uh plan. We are proposing in brown there 140 residential units which is 112 market rates, a mix of one
beds and two beds, some with dens, no threebedrooms, and 28 affordable uh which is 20% following the typical U-Hack uh distribution. 20% ones, 60% twos, 20% threes. The only three bedrooms in the project will be the affordable units. Those are distributed
evenly throughout the site as you'll see from our architectural presentation later. >> How many affordable and how many total was it again? >> Uh 140 total units, 28 affordable >> and and what was the split on the bedrooms? >> Uh they will for the affordable it will
follow U-Hack standard. So 20% ones, 60% twos, and 20% threes. Thank you. >> This is actually an a decrease in total units from 160 on the original application to 140 in this application, but an increase in affordable units from
24 or 15% on the original application to 28 or 20% on this application. Um, and in fact, I believe this is the only new multif family market rate building within the township's round four affordable housing plan uh that's been
adopted over the past year. The site also in on the frontage along Burnt Mills Road includes 10,000 square ft of retail. This is a reduction from around 16,000 ft in the original application. And part of that reduction is to better serve the site with surface
parking that's incorporated now. So you'll see around that mixeduse building there's a plethora of parking for bank use, residential use, and retail use. We've also pre-plumbed the Bank of America lease extension that I was talking about such that the bank parking when bank is off hours can be used for
retail purposes. >> Excuse me one second. The 10,000 square ft is does it include the existing bank? >> It does not. That's an additional 3,000. >> So it's an additional 10,000 plus the bank's already there. >> That's correct. Um, I want to touch briefly on our third party approvals because when we came in
front of you last time, we had not secured those yet. Um, this site does have a pond in the middle of it which is on a regulated stream. So, we went to the state to DP for both a wetlands verification and a permit. We received that in July of 2023 and there are no
changes with this layout to the regulated area. So, that permit remains valid. We also received a flood hazard area verification and permit an individual permit in April of 2022. Um there are again no changes to the regulated areas resulting from that.
However, the state um the state has jurisdiction over storm water design in in conjunction with flood hazard area and the storm water design necessarily had to change as a result of the layout changing where the systems were located has moved around a
little bit but we were able to maintain the exact same flows and actually as of this morning we received approval from the D for our modification for this layout. So we have already secured all of our D permitting that we need for this site.
Um also in conjunction or another third party approval that we needed was for the uh intersection improvements that we agreed to as a part of this project originally between Burnt Mills Road and US Route 206. There's the intersection there that's notoriously backed up
during rush hour. Uh we have agreed in conjunction with the township. We filed an application uh for signal improvements there. They were approved by DOT back in 2021. We have restarted that process with DOT and they have issued a developers agreement to continue forward. So that is also
underway. The county application because Burnt Mills Road is a county uh has been submitted and is under their review. Um, and finally, I forgot to mention it when I was going through the project, but there's a ring road on the site that tr
that goes from Burnt Mills Road down to US 20220 206 and kind of circumvents that intersection. It is still, we agreed in the original application and is still our intention to make that publicly accessible via a public access easement and it will be incorporated entirely as part of the residential
subdivision. So, this property has three components to it. the office piece to remain, the residential and the bank will all be their own standalone lots. The ring road we've incorporated entirely on the residential so that the maintenance obligations and the easement obligations all fall within one entity
and one use. >> Any questions from the board? >> I have one one more statement. >> Oh, go I don't mean to cut off. >> No worries. So this this here in front of you is our residential entrance. And I just wanted to address that a number of Frank and and Paul's and your
professionals comments have really focused in on how do we manage and maintain all these different uses on the same site in close proximity. Where's trash? Where's loading? Things like that. You'll hear detailed testimony from our professionals about how all that is managed. But what I want to
convey to you is that this is a highly highly managed and serviced property. The idea here is to have this be one of the um highest levels of residential service for any multif family building in New Jersey. This will be a a dedicated there will be a dedicated
person on site 24/7 managing operations. There will be assigned residential parking spaces. Loading trash are all encouraged to to happen off hours and out of sight so that they're not impediments to the rest of the circulation. You also see that there's a
number of signage vari uh deviations that we're looking for here. And that's really all to serve circulation around this site to make sure that everyone who comes here knows where they're going. If they're going to the bank, the retail, the residents as they get to where they want to be. Um, and really we're only
able to do this because of the community that we're in here in Bedminster. And we're very excited to be a part of this community and have this development. That concludes my testimony. >> Good. Okay. So, we'll go back to the board. Bo board questions. Questions?
Any questions? >> I have a question. >> Yeah. >> Um, who's who's going to be maintaining that loop road around the back? >> We will be. >> Okay. >> The residential entity >> and that's with an agreement with the township or as part of the resolution. >> Right now, it's private property and as part of the resolution, I believe
there's a condition that we will have an access easement dedicated to the public use of that. And we're happy to grant title 39 as well for traffic enforcement. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And I think just to be clear, your testimonies were great and you did that really fast, which I think you probably
would call us to do. >> Just saying. >> Maybe. But it was really good. >> The loop road has some issues that need to be >> dramatically repaired. Part of this plan will be to rebuild the loop road so that when title 39 applies, the cops can
>> Absolutely. We will be >> It'll be a real road. >> We will be milling and repaving the road as part of this. >> Thank you. If you're northbound on 20220 206, will you have an access to that? >> You will not. It's a It's a right in, right out only. >> So, it'll remain. >> Yes, that will remain the same.
>> Just going south. >> Just going south. Yes. >> So, all those people will have to go through the light, but the improvements they're going to be making at the intersection will make it so much easier for people to go through the light. >> Yep. >> Probably better anyway. >> Yeah, it's certainly right. le less of
anytime you go through a managed situation in a controlled intersection compared to do I cut in front of this person that's going 50 miles an hour coming out you know yeah good points >> yeah the intersection needs work
>> let's put it that way >> glad you got the approval for that >> we do >> okay um I'll open it up to the public anyone have any questions for this witness >> again if you're online, which like I
pretty sure it's just professionals and people that are part of it, but you can unmute yourself, raise your hand, or you can come up to the podium. There's a handheld mic there, or you can wait. Okay,
seeing no, no one, we can uh take your next one. >> Thank you, board. >> Larry, is Tom Collins speaking now? I just wanted to confirm, are these new exhibits or are these just part of the document submitted with the application?
>> Hi, Tom. Uh, we plan to um they're new exhibits and we plan to mark them um this entire presentation as one exhibit and uh just flip through them as we go along to um speed things up. >> Great. Okay. So, and you'll give an electronic copy, I guess, to Janine. >> Yes, we will.
>> And maybe maybe to Paul and Frank and me, >> right? Yes, no, no problem. And while while we're here, I I'll mark um what is on the screen right now, what I'm holding in my hand is uh A1 and I'll give this to Janine and we'll um also
send an electronic copy to all the professionals. >> Thank you. >> And uh with that, I'd like to call Mark Kushner as our next witness. Mr. Kushner, you stand. >> Mr. Kushner, please raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm and tell the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you God? >> I do. >> And please state your name and spell your last name and give us at least a business address. >> Sure. It's Mark Kushner, M A RC, KU SH Ner. And my business address is 515
Marin Boulevard, Jersey City, New Jersey 07302. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay, go right ahead. >> Hi everybody. Thank you for having us back. Um, I'm going to do a little architectural review of where we were and how we got here. Um, so if we go to
the next slide, >> we should just confirm for the record, Mark, you're a registered architect in New Jersey. >> Yes, I am a registered architect. >> And the board has previously recognized and still accepts the qualifications of Mark Kushner as a registered architect.
Please go ahead, Mark. >> Thank you, Tom. Um, so what you're looking at is the original plan, which was a three-story 160 unit residential building. And as Chris explained, because of the wanting to reduce the podium and the bank remaining, we made
the following architectural changes. Next slide. So the bank, which is shown in blue on the top left, is remaining, and you can see that it's right up against where we had planned the building. Next slide. So, we lpped off that leg of the building to keep all of the
drive-throughs and give the bank enough space uh to continue to operate as a pad. Next slide. We then address the two legs on the right, reducing them to increase surface parking so that we could afford to build a building without a podium. Next slide. To gain some of
those units back, we filled in the space between what had essentially been two separate buildings and created what we think looks a little bit like a Q- shape of a of a footprint with a courtyard in the middle and a little tail off to the left. Next slide.
And here you can see the building in plan and you can see the two uses. Previously, both the retail and the residential entrances were all on Burnt Mills Road. And I think we we all had some concerns that that would be a sort of a a mix,
too much of a mix. What we've been able to achieve with this new plan is in blue, uh, facing Burnt Mills is the 10,000 ft of retail facing that public plaza and retail dedicated parking. Residential entrance is shown in pink,
which is off to the left off of the ring road. So, it really is two completely sets of circulation and that's why when we talk about signage, you'll hear about why we need some extra signage to make sure that people can know the difference between those two uses. Next slide.
So, here looking at the elevation, this was the approved elevation on burnt mills. Next slide. And we'll take you through the evolution. The bank needs to remain on the right hand side. So, next slide. We lose the wing on the left. And again, next slide.
We fill in that middle piece. So, we kept all of the architectural elements the same, but we filled in that middle piece with the same leg that we took off of the left. Next slide. So, in plan, what you're looking at is there's there now the colors have switched. So, stay with me, but in pink
is the 10,000 ft of retail incidentally with covered uh potentially covered dining space or retail space off to the left, which is something that we spoke about between the bank and the retail. Um, and a dedicated retail hallway that goes out to retail trash and loading.
So, like Chris was saying, we want to make sure that we give every opportunity to get all that servicing off of the front of of the retail and in the back. Next slide. And then here, uh, talking about materials, they remain exactly the same as we talked about previously. Red
brick, a darker brick, uh, vertical uh, elements in white and in wood tones. Um, and then shingles on the roof. Next slide. We have metal awnings on the retail and signage. And here you can see an evening view which Chris showed you. And you can see the animation, the
activation of that courtyard uh with event lighting. And sitting right up front on Bert Mills is a sit sign um that says the name of the development. And you can start to see a monument sign off to the left. Next slide. For the retail entrance, we went for
something more intimate, something more residential. So, you can see retail uh residential circulation is uh the main pieces are in purple here. Uh the lobby and amenity space is off to the bottom is off to the left. And then the hallways connect to a secondary uh lobby
on the right hand side of the project for people that park on that side of the project. They don't have to walk all the way around. Next slide. Same material palette except for the residential portion. We introduced glazed brick tile um and you can see that in the rendering and standing seam
metal roof and in the next slide we have a rendering of what that's going to look like. So this is the Bedminster chapter, the proposed Bedminster chapter and the entrance to it. So we really tried to create a sort of grand and elevated entry for the residents of this building and also something still visible from
the ring road so that you know that this is the entrance for the residential portion of the building. And with that, I'm going to conclude my testimony and ask if you have any questions. >> One question that I have. >> Go right ahead. >> The pavilion, he he showed it on the draw. There was a pavilion that we all
were not quite sure about, but we were interested in that went away because of the reconfiguration. >> You're right, Frank. I didn't mention that. >> Can you tell us about the >> Yeah, and we can if you want to see it in in plan, we can go back to the first slide. Um there we had proposed the
standalone. Uh next slide. You can see the pavilion building off to the Oh, it says it pavilion right there. >> Yeah, you can go to the next slide. >> Says removed pavilion building because we needed to we needed to get enough parking for our retail to work and the
bank pad now took up really kind of that square footage that we had for that standalone pavilion. So, the bank pad in a way replaced the standalone pavilion as a a second building on the site. and and you initially sold us on the theory that that could be somewhat of a unique
outlier, but we never figured out what that would be exactly. So, what you're now giving us is a much more reliably formatted retail element that matches the streetscape and gives us enough parking. Right. So, very losing something. >> No. And in fact, we've really gone deep.
Thank you, Frank. We've really gone deep on we we want this retail to be successful. So, Right. And we know that that can be a challenge in this location. So, we've already been speaking to brokers and potential tenants about what they would need for this. So, you can see that the the blue
uh piece has different depths. We have up to 60 ft deep, which is a preferred retail uh depth for say a restaurant. Um and we'll have the ventilation and should we should we get a restaurant interested in this space, but we also have smaller spaces to potentially get
some smaller retail in there too. So, it's not our our dream would be that we don't have a single user, but that we have a couple of stores and that it becomes a vibrant place to come. We talked about bikes, we talked about restaurants. That's what we set the building up to achieve. >> So, where is the parking going to be for
the retail? Is it all going to be the bank? >> If you're all the way over to the right side, that larger side, what's that parking lot on the right going to be? Is that just resident? >> Yes, >> that's just resident. >> That's just resident. >> And then the parking on the left is just resident. >> Correct. So all the retail is going to be
>> from the bank. So the deal that we have with the bank is that after operating hours, we can use that for the other retail. So if you start to think about like a restaurant with a dinner service, they can use all the part all the retail parking including the bank parking. >> So how many spots are there going to be for just for the retail during the day?
It's going to be like 20. >> You're Yeah, we're going to hear I was I was going to open up with I'm not the numbers guy tonight, but uh that's fair question. We will address it. >> Okay. Um the the front area is there any area now for public gathering or we
talked about some of that. >> Yes, very much so. So still the intention is still very much that it's a public gathering space. We've added uh two and um we'll have our landscape team talk about it. We've added uh some planters just for shade and for seating. But the idea is that that is an outdoor
hopefully a dining uh place. And then we've got the opportunity where you see the event lighting and to shut that down and turn that into a fully pedestrian occupied plaza for special events, tree lightings, that sort of thing. But that that's very much the intent.
>> What about the bank? Is anything happening with the bank or, you know, it's not shown in this picture. It's just going to be like it is now. >> Expect improved landscaping and all the circulation and signage will be cleaned up, but the bank building will remain what it is today. >> So I have a question about that. So you
have all this beautiful redesigned architecture and then you have the bank over here the way it is. So do you have concerns with that? The bank might be like a sore thumb sticking out in this beautiful setting. >> They're going to build something so
beautiful you could put an >> I was going to say a rising tide. uh the bank the bank I think landscaping paving patterns lighting signage these are things that are pretty outdated in the current bank and I think that's going we we're confident look on this one we're
completely on the same side we want that bank to look great we're going to we're going to make sure that it fits into the development >> for the retail space has that been allocated just yet in terms of the number that you're proposing or thinking about or is it just going to be based totally on the leases that you acquire
right just based on the leasing lease that we require. But you know, when you go out to lease retail space, you can have an intent in mind. And I think what what we've done is create a basis of design for those spaces that we can get the the tenants that we want. You know, just for instance, a grease trap or
ventilation for a restaurant. You need to pre-plumb those if you're if you're going to go for that sort of use. And that's what we've done. Yeah. >> And we have the same bites as the old building. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Anyone else on the board?
Good job. Thank you. >> Madam Chairman, if I could just >> I'm sorry. I have one more question. >> Hold up a minute. >> The question we have is we talked about possibility of having a a path from this
site over to the park. Did anything happen with that? Do we still have that? >> Something did happen and we'll our team will address that. >> Okay. Yeah. I just want to open it up to the public. >> Janine. >> So again, if you're online, you can
unmute yourself or raise your hand. If you're in the audience and you have a question, um you can come up and ask it now or again you can hold questions or comments to live. >> Yeah, I have one question. Um when you
were monitoring the parking uh the the north parking there and you don't see a lot of activity. What about the bikers the you know not motorcycles but regular bikes >> bicycle there? I don't know did they get a
bicycle? >> I think that the majority of those 10 to 20 cars that we've seen there were for bicyclists. >> Um we expect them to probably move next door to the park. And what about uh an area for them
if they want to go to a restaurant, can they leave their bikes outside? >> We will we will address that. There's a ton of bike parking. >> Great. >> We very much want to encourage this to be a hub for the the biking community. >> Remember that was Noah's thing.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Madam Chairman, >> yes. >> Can you hear me? >> I do. Who's speaking? >> This is Paul Fero. Sorry. >> Yes. >> Um I just had a question for the architect and it was a a comment in my
letter. Um and and it relates to how the trash is is going to be handled. It looks like they're going to be in carts that are going to be wheeled out to the uh to the residential parking on the on the on the residential parking side of
the site. Um, my concern is how this eventually works and and wears in, particularly if you have a restaurant use, because uh, every one of these I've ever seen is you end up with a lot of grease uh, being wheeled out and tracks
that uh, discolor the sidewalk at wherever this is going to going to be picked up eventually. How will the trash collection actually work for both the commercial uses and the residential uses? Well, I'm going to let Jack Raker from Minowasa walk you through the exact
architecture of the plan of how the trash moves through the site, but I can tell you that we're we are very familiar with the challenges of this and our commercial team is able to deal with the trash, power wash any staining on the sidewalks. It's just part of managing a
building of this caliber. >> But let me do >> Yeah. And Jack, so we're aware of the issues. I think what you're bringing up are legitimate issues and Jack will show you how we try to address them in the plan of the building. >> Yes, Paul. Is that all right? Satisfied? >> Uh, that's all. I'll wait for the
architect. >> Okay. All right. Anyone else? >> Not seeing anyone. I'll close it to the public. >> Next. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. I'd like to uh call Rob
Michello from Gladstone Design, Inc. >> Thank you, Mr. Michello. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear, affirm, and tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you God? >> I do. >> And please uh state your name, spell
your last name, and give us at least a business address. >> Sure. It's Robert Moshello, M O S C H E L L O. and my business address is 265 Main Street, Gladstone, uh 07934. >> Just confirm for the record that the
board recognize and accepts the qualifications of Mr. Michello as a professional engineer. >> Please go ahead, gentlemen, >> whose license is still in good stand. >> Yes, it is. Just just renewed. >> Excellent. So, I have a couple I'm going to continue along with the exhibit
package that we have there. I'm going to actually share my screen as I go through a couple of these for the board and we talk about some of the u modifications that have been changed that have been done to the property from the prior application to this application. You've heard a lot of testimony already from um from the folks from KRE about the site
modifications about the building modifications and so forth. I'm going to touch on some of the engineering aspects that are related um to that. So, just give me a second here. I will share my screen. There we go. Excellent. So again, what we're looking
at here, just to go over just a couple little components of of the existing site itself, just an overall site aerial showing the surrounding neighborhood. You got Burnt Mills Road going, you know, in a west west to east direction. Washington Valley Road also going in west to east. The intersection that we've talked about here already with
20220 206. Um that that is part of the permits that we just received from received for DOT. 2026 going north south. Um and then we have the site itself which is you know block 71 lot 7 which is comprised of approximately
um 22.47 acres for the record. The existing bed one site as we call it. Mr. Fairfield talked about the existing improvements that are on the site already, the office building, the bank, and so forth. Um, and I'm going to zoom in a little bit closer to the plan here just to kind of see the site in a little
bit more detail. We tal um we have the site right now as is configured has, you know, four access points um out to the surrounding roads. two on route 202 206 that we talked about for the office building access both here and on the southern southerntherly portion the ring road that called the ring road or you
know that goes along the south and western side of the property that connects Burnt Mills Road 2202206 the bank or the bank of America has access off of that ring road and the bank of America also has an access drive going out to Burnt Mills Road and then you also have the Chase Bank that was
mentioned at the intersection of Burnt Mills and 2026 that also has an access drive that comes comes in and out of Burton Mills Road through our site that provides access to the Chase to the Chase Bank. Um, so those are the ex the existing improvements that are on that that provide access to the property. Um,
moving along and and this was mentioned in Mr. Fairfield's testimony. We are doing a subdivision here and I think it's it's key to talk for a few moments about what that subdivision is entailed. The prior the prior approval had a two lot subdivision that was approved by the board. Here we're looking for a three lot subdivision. And when I flip to the
next slide, you're going to see the orange subdivision lines that appear here on the plan. That basically creates the three lots that Mr. Fairfield was talking about. And we're breaking it down into the three lots. Basically, the remaining or proposed lot 7, which will be approximately 12.46 acres for the
office building site. Um, and that includes the office building and what it's going to be its parking. It does not include the ring road. We're going to put the ring road on what's going to be proposed lot 7.01, 1 which is the residential lot or the mixeduse lot which will be 9.28 acres and then the
reason why we're in front of the board this evening is because of the the Bank of America lot that we're creating here that's creating the the uh the bulk the use variance which is going to be proposed lot 7.02 shown here in orange and that's 0.67 acres basically putting the bank on its own lot. Um so those are
the three lots that we're asking to create as part of this application. Just briefly talking about the environmental constraints that's on the property. This is the same exhibit that we presented um a couple years ago. The constraints as Mr. Fairfield had pointed
out, we have all our D permits that were required for the project. We have our our our LOI, our verification for the flood plane. We have our new updated uh technical modification of our prior flood hazard area permit that was just issued today. But this basic this plan basically shows you the constraints and
they're related to the existing pond that's on the property. that pond was built back in the 1980s when the site was developed with the existing office building and all those constraints basically revolve around that pond. One of the other items that's shown on here that's not D related but related to your
ordinance is your um I'll call it the three tier management buffer for your stream buffer and that's related to the pond here. Under the prior application, we were granted a waiver from that. I'll touch on that again this evening. But those buffer lines that are shown here in purple on the plan are related to
your um your your buffer man your buffer system that that's related to that pond in the stream that's associated with that. And and those lines are the same lines that were on the prior application. And the waiver that we're requesting is basically the same exact waiver that was previously granted um for the prior application with no change
in the disturbance limits. Um so moving on to the proposed application. Um a as this has been mentioned you know we have basically the components of this are the the bank lot and the modifications around the bank
the residential building or the mixeduse building with the residential and commercial um components of it. And then you have the office component which is the on its own lot down here. The office component I'll just touch on that briefly first is is the existing office building and its parking lots. And this is the same exact layout that was
approved previously. So, we're really not modifying that layout at all when it comes to the office and its layout and its parking that's shown there. The modifications, as you've heard already, really were focused around the layout of the mixeduse building and the bank. And I'm going to go to my next slide which
shows that in a little bit more detail here with with the uh with the uh labels and such so we can talk for a few minutes about what we're proposing here and we can talk about the the um some of the uh aspects of this project the amenity spaces and and um the loading and and um
pedestrian um functionality and all those types of things. So basically as as the site was mentioned the retail building the mixeduse building has the retail on the north portion of the building here. It's adjacent to the amenitized courtyard. Um, that's in the front of the building. You've got patio areas along both the east and west side
of that building. In the front here, the covered uh patio area here to the northwest. In the front of the building, you've got the the courtyard area. You've got pedestrian access out to Burnt Mills Road. There'll be a new there'll be a sidewalk along the frontage of Burnt Mills Road that goes across to the intersection here. That
sidewalk will continue and connect down into the Pluckin Park as you can see here on the plan. Um, you'll hear some more of that from our landscape architect when he talks about the park area, but you can see that sidewalk connection that takes the that takes anybody who was in this development and wants to go to the park can walk along
that frontage of the property to the frontage of the subject site to get to the park. Um, I know there was a comment in in in in Mr. Banish's letter about possibly some other connectivity maybe along road A. But we looked at that and given some of the slopes there and and and the fact that we want to have a a
nice connection that's also, you know, compliant from an ADA perspective, which this is along the frontage here, we feel that it's better to bring everyone out to Burnt Mills Road and connect them into the park through the sidewalk networks that's shown here, as opposed to trying to cut cut through the woods here with some undulating grades and and
drainage swells that exist there. I >> I went out and looked at that. I don't disagree with that. Good. Thank you. Um, so, you know, further in looking into the site, um, the way it's laid out here, we have the bank here, the existing bank that's shown with its drive-through canopy. We're maintaining
the four drive-through lanes on the bank. Um, we are going to be adding additional parking around the bank lot, and I'll get to a parking exhibit in a few moments to show you how that's going to be broken out across the site, but primarily the bank buildings here with access around the building. Um, you'll have the the road A or the ring road
that we have here on the west. You'll have an access point coming in. Folks can either drive around the front of the bank or they can go through the the bypass lane should they so desire to get to the front of the retail component which also has its access coming in off of Burnt Mills Road shown here on the
plan. And then we're making the connection to the Chase Bank on the eastern side of the project here. So the folks that come into the Chase Bank off of 20220 206 can go through their parking lot and we'll have the ability to go back out through our parking lot to Burnt Mills Road or vice versa come in through our parking lot to the Chase
Bank. Off of that retail in the front will be a parking lot for the the residential shown here on the eastern side. And then we have second separate from the retail in the front, we have another parking field that's here on the western side of the building that ties
into the residential lobby um for the residents as well. Um in terms of loading and and for the building um we are going to need a waiver for a loading space related to the retail. The intent here is you'll see the floor plans when our architect puts it up. Um the retail
component has a small lobby and entry point, not a lobby, an entry point for the retail for the back of house here for trash and deliveries. We feel that given um the limited size of the retail that deliveries can come through the side over here into the building. We don't need a dedicated loading space for
that retail or if it's a small truck or UPS or whatever, it could always come to the front of the building um if if need be. But we feel we have this side area over here for deliveries that'll work for the retail. For the residential, we've dedicated a loading space 18 by 45
on the south uh southwestern corner or southeastern sorry southwestern corner of the building over here for um folks who will be um coming into the building for move in and move out. There's doors on the side of the building here. You'll see the internal layout of how that works with the with the hall corridors
from our architect. Um, this will also be one of the main components where trash will come out here for pickup as well. Uh, will be which will be managed by the building staff. You hear more of that from our architect as well. The trash for the retail will come out this side of the building or the eastern side of the building. It will be picked up
over here. Um, and the architect will talk more about how that's managed internally to the building. Could >> Could you just speak a little bit slower? >> Sorry. >> It's it's you know the mouse is moving around and you're speaking. It's a little >> Not a problem. Good. Thank you.
>> Sure. One of the other components that I wanted to point out is the pedestrian connectivity around the building and around this portion of the site. I mentioned that there's two pedestrian walkways going out towards Burke Mills Road. You can see them on either side of the amenitized courtyard here. You have
crosswalks. You have you have the plaza area in the front here with sidewalk space associated with it. That same sidewalk network goes around the eastern side of the building, loops around the back of the building. And you can see,
oh, your screen's probably a little bit behind now. I see we're on a bit of a delay here. Um, on the back side of the building here, we have a sidewalk that go that's existing that's adjacent to the parking lot that goes through the uh parking that goes adjacent to the parking area. And we connect back on the western side here and that goes around
the building to the retail lobby that is on the west side. I'm sorry. Retail the residential lobby that is on the west side of the building here where my pointer is. That network still continues. See why I see a delay. Still continues up here and ties into that lobby in the front. So, you can actually walk around
the building, you know, completely in the 360 um way 360 way to get around the building and then also goes out. There's a sidewalk that goes out to Burnt Mills from the bank lot as well along the ring road that's over here on the west.
Rob, would you just explain in a little clarity what's going on in the front of the retail where we see those boxy areas? Obviously, there's some parking spaces out toward the street, but what else is happening? What are we trying to see going on? >> So, and you'll see some of this when our
landscape architect speaks as well, but you have um parking spaces in the front here, which are eight spaces. You've got the drive the drive lane through the middle here that's delineated by banding and pavers. And then we have a plaza area that's in the front of the retail building here with some seating and
landscaping that's associated with that. And this area can be closed off if need be to activate it for some type of closed events or things of that nature. Um, and if it is closed off, you still have access to the parking both on the east side from Burnt Mills Road and the west side from the access through the
bank. Am I right to assume that's about 30 feet deep and 60 feet wide and you know close to 2,000 square feet of outdoor plaza area. >> This in the front here is about 30 35 by yes by 6 60 70 ft wide and then you got the drive lane here and this is all um
one level coming through here. So there's no curb through here. It's going to be all flush. So you can have that ability to close that area off and have it feel like a like a private event type of space if if you want if you wanted to do that. safe. >> Yes.
And then I do want to point out that that pedestrian connectivity and we'll give it a second to to load here. That pedestrian connectivity from the back side of the uh mixeduse building continues over a bridge that's that's
over the um the the stream here. come and there's an existing path that's there today that comes to the back side. My blue beam just seems to have There we go. That comes into the back side of the building. There's a patio area back here already that's on the existing office building that's there today. That'll
ultimately connect to one of the off one of the parking fields that's off to the uh east side here. And this connectivity continues today. It's actually there to the back side of the office building. And then we'll ultimately make a connection into what's going to be some of the existing parking the proposed
parking areas on the um low side of the building here that's just off the screen. So you if so if you park in the parking on the southside, you'll be able to walk all the way to the mixeduse retail building from the office from the office building that's there today. So you have full connectivity where you don't have to go down the ring road to
be able to to be able to get there. So I'm going to jump to my next slide. which is basically I know there's some questions about parking so I think this is a a good slide to talk about the parking distribution on the property um and it's really broken into four categories um you have parking for the
bank parking for the retail parking for the residential and parking for the office the office parking is the parking spaces that are shown in orange which is on the southern side of the plan and that's generally unchanged from what we proposed the last time in terms of the parking layout and the parking configur
uration on the office side of the site. As discussed on the mixeduse side, we had to remove the podium parking and basically take all of our parking and create surface parking that would service the three uses on the um north side of the site for the mixed use. And
that breaks down into three categories for the bank, the retail, and the and the residential. And just to go over some of the numbers briefly for what that means in terms of how those how that parking is calculated, the bank itself, which is in the northwest corner of the site here, only
requires 11 parking spaces, but based on KR's um requirements with the bank, what the bank is looking for in terms of their agreements, we actually show 35 spaces. And those are shown in brown here. If I zoom into the into the plan, those 35 spaces there. And those spaces,
as was mentioned by Mark, those spaces will act as both spaces for the bank, even though there's more than adequate parking there. And they'll also double as spaces that will also support the retail during off during off hours. The retail parking
is shown in purple on the plan here in the front of the building. And the ordinance requirement for the retail is actually um 46. And the plan here shows 44 spaces in purple. So we have we're just two spaces short for the retail. um when you look at it just straight up in terms of the calculation, but when you
com when you add in the bank parking next to it, now you have, you know, over 70 spaces of parking that's available during off peak hours of the bank to be shared across that retail in the front. The rest of the parking is really dedicated to the residential and that's
the parking shown in green. And on this side of the site, we have 225 residential parking spaces shown in green distributed both on the east side of the site and on the west side of the site. Those spaces generally since this is going to be a managed development um
they are going to be assigned for residential parking um for the units >> it would be assigned >> would be assigned. Yes. Now, now depending on there's 160 units. Um there's a certain number of those units are going to be um onebedroom, two-bedroom, and threebedroom. And KRE
will manage the assignment of those spaces, but you typically would assign one space per unit, and then the rest would be available to the public or visitors to park in those spaces if they were coming visiting people. So again, that that would be managed by KRE, but
based on the parking requirements, we have 160 residential. There's 225 spaces that are shown here in green um for for for the parking. >> How does that compare to RSIS? >> Um >> did you say there's 225 on each side of
the building? >> I said the total was I'm sorry. 140 units was I said 160 >> residential. >> The total was 225. >> The total was 225 spaces we're showing in green on the plan here and it's 140 units.
So, so it's 140 unit. It's 140 spaces in 280 bedrooms. >> I don't have the exact bedroom count based on break. >> Well, it's 20% one and 20% three and the rest are two. >> No, no, that's not the count. That's
that's the breakout. That's the breakout for the affordable uh housing units that only the affordable house. Yeah, actually the the actual unit breakdown is is 48 onebedroom, 86 twobedroom, and six threebedroom. So that's the actual
breakdown. 48, 86, and six for 140 units. >> Does that match our zoning requirements? >> Yes, >> for residential. >> Yes, I believe >> it's RSIS uh statewide standard is the
RSIS standard. And I think Rob said it complies. Is that is that right, Ron? >> Yes, for the residential complies. And then overall parking in the office building, of course, we have the parking on that side um for the for the office
use. Um and the way and we also have and this was brought up in the review letters. Um I know there was some questions about the EV parking spaces and the ADA parking spaces. Um, we'll just state that we are going to ensure that we comply with the state standard for what would be required for EV
parking on the residential versus EV parking on the new retail and commercial and we'll provide the the required what they call um EV ADA spaces which the project would require four of them which will have which will disperse throughout the site. So we'll have to just make
some slight adjustments to the EV layouts which we can comply with to satisfy those those uh state requirements. I believe uh Mr. Faro, Mr. Mr. Far had some comments in his review letter about those, but we'll be sure to to make sure that the parking complies with those requirements.
>> Rob, do you know how many is required for residential? >> The parking is the electric. >> Oh, the electric. It's um Hold on a second. for the residential 27 EV spaces are required. >> Okay. >> To start off with, but then ultimately
you could add more as time goes on if you um you know if they're they're required. Correct. >> Thank you. That's right. >> Just with regard to the ground spaces, does the arrangement between the bank
and KRE anyway limit their availability to serve as overflow any time of day or night. >> That's right. >> During the bank's off hours, they're available for for the retail use. So the intent is that if there's going to be a restaurant type of use in the in the
retail building, you would have the bank would be closed in the evening hours and that would be the overflow for that type of use. >> So basically, you're avoiding conflict between bank traffic and this traffic. >> Correct. You know, dur during during the during the day, we don't expect that the
retail use would be that intense that it would require the parking spaces at the bank. >> Probably right. Thank you. I can envision the only time where you may have a conflict is if you have a coffee shop or bagel shop or something
like that in this retail space that's going to be pretty busy on a Saturday morning and the bank is open and that's where you may have a potential conflict. I don't think the bank has Saturday or is it just >> Bank of America's closed?
>> According to the Bank of America's website, they're closed on Saturday and Sunday. >> It used to be, but they changed it. Yeah. >> And they're weekdays, they're closed before 4. >> Yeah. And they open they open at 9:00 a.m. on the weekday. So if people are there for a bagel shop before 9, it's there shouldn't be shouldn't be a
problem. And again, >> so that that explains why I've never gone to a Bank of America branch to do any of my banking. >> Correct. why they call it banker's hours, I guess. Um, so, >> so, so Rob, I just want to clarify that a little bit again.
>> Yeah. So, those brown spaces are for the bank and the purple are for retail and commercial, but what if someone from retail parks in the bank space during bank hours? Is there going
to be like an issue there? I I I I don't think anyone given the fact that we've got 35 spaces on the bank lot and the ordinance requires 11. I I don't think you're going to see an issue if someone was happens to park in a few of the spaces in the front. I mean, again, that's a management thing with KRE and
their lease with the bank, but I don't know if anyone's going to really come out there and complain if a few spaces were used up. >> Have signage that says bank parking only? >> No. No, there'll be no signage >> because that would dis dissuade people from parking there. Um, and I I don't know any bank that has 35 customers at
the same time. >> Not anymore. >> Not anymore. And and this bank happens to have four drive-through lanes. You know, one is a bypass, two ATMs, and so again, it's much always the bank lot's always empty. >> Yeah. It's just the employees >> used to drive in anymore. It's just two
ATMs now. >> Yeah. I think and there's a bypass. I don't know if there's even a window. So yeah, >> but yeah, given given the way banks have been managed over the last 10-15 years, you don't see the number of cars going there with online banking and everything now. But their requirement with Kerry is they wanted 35 spaces and so that's what
we give them on on the site plan for that. >> Okay. >> So we fully intend that these would be shared spaces and get used as overflow when the retail when the retailer was really in use on the weekends and in the evening hours. So, when you were monitoring the parking
lot, did you monitor the bank lot at the same time to see the the usage? >> We did. There was nothing. >> Yeah. Yeah. The KRE did and they didn't they didn't see much there. And I was in I sat in the bank lot for a half hour on one morning and I saw three or four cars >> 30 faces
>> because you know it seems as if uh you know if that's the case you guys should really make a deal to uh and and there's all well it should be seamless you know if nobody's in the
bank I mean you're looking like oh man the adversaries that what I'm feeling I >> I'll have to defer to Kerry on how their operation of the work. But yes, that's a good point. Yeah, >> we like to encourage uh shared parking, right? Right, Frank? >> Absolutely.
>> You know, so if there's any way >> to to get maybe the data, >> I I I think it's just going to happen. >> Yeah. >> We could talk some about there's >> there's plenty. And you're also you're also sharing some of the spots in the office building looks like here, too.
Well, some of the residential spaces just on the office building site, there's 19 spaces on the on the office lot that's shared for for the residential uses down o down over here. >> Yeah. So, you get 22 of them. Yeah. >> According to this. >> Yeah. I thought it was supposed to be 19, but it could be just slightly
mislabeled. >> Um, but yeah, supposed to be 19 for the residential on that side. >> Yeah, they're stealing it. Show five on the three. >> Yeah. Robert, just out of curiosity, where's like staff or retail staff for the building? Is that going to be in certain areas? Is that going to take up the
retail space or is that kind of just going to be overflow into the residential areas or maybe that's our mixed use into the bank? >> That's really again the ret the employees are going to park in those same designated spaces for the retail and the bank. The bank employees will park in the bank spaces. The retail employees will probably park in the
front over here. Again, we're not talking it's only a 10,000 foot retail space. if you're not dealing with a a lot of employees that are going to be in there. >> Can you go over garbage again? Where are the dumpsters going to be? Where do people load when they move in? Where the
trucks where do the deliveries happen? >> So, I think two things with that. I'm going to talk about the exterior portion of it. And I think you'll see from the our architect on interior how it's going to function. But there's two components to that. There's a loading area on the west side of the building. It says proposed loading area right here. This
is primarily for move in and move out for the residential. >> Is that a loading dock or >> No, it's just it's just a striped area. Striped striped pavement area where where no cars are >> doors there. >> There's three sets of doors over here on the side of the building. >> Okay. >> And those are going to be where you'll have your trash and your move in and
move out come through. And you'll see that on the architectural plans how that works with the hall corridors and everything with the building. >> So trash is going to be stored inside. >> Trash is stored inside the building and it's brought out during during days for pickup. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Same on the other side. Same on on the other side really. The other side is
more for the retail delivery which comes through this door over here. Okay. There's a there's a trash room inside the building here for for the retail as well. So, they can come through here for deliveries and trash. And you have a basically a small island right here where a truck can stop for that. And
then there's a smaller lobby over here for the uh for the residential folks as well who who are on the east side of the building. >> Okay. So, it's separate. Okay. I was assuming was combined. You know, it's like the poor people on that side. >> Yeah. You you'll see on the architecturals how that's split up. Yes.
Yeah. You can see the dash line on here. Yeah. And then back in schooly. >> Again, given the size of the building, you really it's good to have entrances on both sides of the building. And you'll see how with the way the circulation works on the inside for the residential.
>> Okay. Go ahead, >> Rob. I I want to just change subjects for a little bit. Um, how tall is this structure? >> Um, I believe it was 13. >> Two stories. Three stories. Three stories. I think it's three stories. >> Can you discuss maybe even Ron can help
us here in terms of fire safety and access in and around the building? This is a fairly large building for us in Bedminster. >> Yeah. So, we looked at um number one um emergency truck access around the building. We know your ladder truck Ron has mentioned it to me many, many times.
the size of it. I can't too many too many to list. Um, and we basically designed it so that you have the ability to maneuver the firetruck around this side of the parking lot or the eastern side of it. Has full access around here. That's why this area is striped over here like that for the purposes of
firetruck maneuverability to come in around and be able to make that turn and go through this parking lot side over here. And we also have maneuverability where they can come in and loop around through this parking lot to go back out for access to the building and they can go down this leg as well towards the uh
lower portion of the uh of the building. So we do have firetruck accessibility around the entire building. Um I'll defer to the um architect. I believe the building is sprinklered, correct? Yes, the building's fully sprinklered. So we have that as well for it um in terms of that um access. But the building height
>> I believe just to confirm >> be the same as it was. >> We are at changing >> 55 ft which is consistent with the prior approval >> for for the three stories >> and um the total number of egress doors on the entire building. I
>> I'll have to defer to the architect on that one. But the egress >> they're in different places. >> There's there's multiple egress points. You you could see them on the plan here. You're going to see an eager door right here. Again, I'm not sure, you know, there's there's a lobby door here where you can come in. And if I pan down,
you're going to see those three doors I mentioned over here that come from the hallway. There's another exit door. It'll zoom in in a second on the back of the building right here. >> I'm getting dizzy.
>> Sorry. And then you have the other lobby that's on the on the east side. All right. So, there's multiple multiple points of entry and exit to the building. >> Thanks. >> Yeah. >> Just go back to the garbage for a second.
>> You said like internal rooms for storing the garbage collection and then brought outside. How >> brought outside in what? Like how what's that process be? the the architecture should be able to answer this as well, but if my understanding is it's roll containers that are roll wheels there's roll containers with wheels on them and they
wheel them out for during the days of garbage pickup and they bring them back in when the garbage when it's done. >> So they'll just sit out there until the truck comes. >> Yeah, usually it's the trucks usually they'll bring it out in the architects be able to answer better the operation of it. >> Anyone else on the board?
>> No. Rob, are you uh >> I mean that pretty much covers my direct um and I'm going to defer the rest of the zoning and everything to Mr. Kenny. He comes up to go over go over zoning and such. >> Okay. All right. Uh Janine, let's open it up to the public.
>> Yes. So if anyone is on, which again I don't believe there is, or if anyone here has a question for Mr. Michelle, you can come up to the podium uh use the handheld mic or you can raise your hand if you're online. Unmute yourself. let
us know that you have a question. >> Madam Chair, this is Paul Ferrero. I had a question that I raised in my review letter regarding the phasing of the project. I don't know if uh Rob can talk about that or someone else will. Um and if he does talk about it, I would
request that he zoom out far and not slide around so much because I have run out of Dramamine and um I'm having a difficult time. >> Okay. >> No, no problem, Paul. I I I I just went to my overall proposed site plan here just to talk about this briefly. Um the
intent of the construction is the entire retail mixeduse portion of the project will be built at one time. That's the entire you know mixeduse portion up here. We do have to do some I'll call it internal phasing with the bank lot in terms of how that's going to remain in
um use while we're constructing the the retail and the residential. But that's that's just some internal coordination that we will have when we construct that. But the intent is to build the entire mixeduse portion of the project, the whole northern side in one in one in one sitting and then just a small
portion of the office parking which is phase one which is delineated on our site plans down here. Um based on K's current um tenant makeup um they feel that the existing parking and the office side would be adequate for now and then as time goes on if they need to they'll
construct the other phases of the parking lots which are phases 2, three and four um as as needed. But for right now, it's the mixeduse retail and that small portion of phase one for the parking pool. >> I would ask that when we get to the point of having a pre-construction
meeting that we get a phasing plan to see how the the bank and the mixeduse building are being constructed and how that can be all coordinated. >> Yeah, we're actually preparing um documents internally for the Bank of America folks to review with KRE and we'll provide that that information to
you as well, you know, at the pre-con meeting. Okay, >> thank you. That's all I have. >> Good. Thank you, Paul. Anything else from the public? Not seeing any. We'll close that portion.
>> Okay. Next witness. >> Thank you, Mr. Michello. I would like to now call Jack Rker, registered architect, architect of Mino Wasco. >> Mr. Ricker, u please raise your right hand. Do you swear, affirm, and tell the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you God? >> I do. >> And Jack, please uh state your name, spell your last name, and give us at least a business address. >> My name is Jack Rker. R A K E R. The
address is 204 North Union Street in Lambertville, New Jersey. Jack, were you have you previously testified before administer Landis board? >> I have not. >> Okay. I guess if you and Larry would go over some minimal qualifications. I'm
sure you're qualified, but let's just put on the record. >> Sure. Tom, uh, Mr. Raker, could you give the board the benefit of your educational and professional qualifications? >> Sure. I have a bachelor's in architecture from the New Jersey Institute of Technology. Uh I've been
practicing in this field of architecture, mixeduse uh residential architecture for the past 30 years. I've testified before hundreds of boards across the state of New Jersey. >> I am currently my license in New Jersey
is current and in good standing. >> Thank you. We'd request that uh you uh find Mr. Raider uh qualified to provide uh expert testimony in the field of architecture. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Thank you.
Next slide, please. So, what I'm showing you up on this uh on the screen right now is a partial plan. And what happens uh for this building, Burnt Mills Road is higher than the grades down toward the the
stream, almost a full story. So, we have a three-story building, but at the very back, we have a very small basement area that we can uh we could do some of our utilities, our our our uh our our trash, do some tenant storage. We do have some
units down there as well. So, it gives us some opportunities. So, on the on the on the this side of the building, you'll be looking at it. It actually looks like four stories, but on the Burnt Mill side, it's three stories. So down at this level we have uh our
trash room. That trash room is located uh it's in gray. It's at the top left uh side. That trash room there are trash rooms that stack on every floor of the building and they have shoots. Tenants go over to the trash room on their floor
and they drop their trash down the chute. It goes down to a compactor. That compactor compacts the trash and puts it into a three-yard dumpster. That three-hour dumpster is very manageable. It's on wheels and it's stored in the trash room until it's trash day. Trash
day happens fairly frequently when the building's not so occupied. It's maybe once or twice a week. Once it gets fully occupied, it'll be there um you know, maybe every other day. Um, so what happens during trash day, they take
those containers, they wheel them down a corridor that goes out to that outside of the building and they put those dumpsters right outside. They know when that trash truck is coming. It's a private hauler. These trash trucks run a pretty regular route. They're there
within usually around a half an hour of a time. They bring those containers out. They sit out there. The trash truck comes. It's an articulated arm. They grab them. They dump them in and then they're off. Then management. >> How many dumpsters are there? >> Um, you know, it's hard to say. It's the
volume of trash, but there may be two dumpsters. It depends upon the frequency as well. There may be two. They're just, you know, they're manageable by hand. They're not It's It's like a very large um home trash container. It's very large. >> I just wondered how many of them you have. two doesn't sound
>> well. They'll have they'll have a few in the building because they want to make sure that they can handle whatever trash is coming down the shoot. Um I doubt that they always get full, but they always have extra just in case. Um and then they're just rolled out at time of pickup. >> There's plenty of space out at the
loading area uh for the trash truck to come and pick them up. >> And there's one shoot for the whole building. >> There are two at this level. There's only one. It's in the top That trash room is in the top left corner. It's big enough to have the trash compactor in it. and uh extra three dumpsters to hook
up to it. It's all automatic. These these sort of dumpsters are ready to hook up to these compactors. It pushes the compacted trash into the dumpster and then they can be rolled out. >> What What about the recycling? >> Recycling. So, I'm not sure we've
decided how we're going to manage recycling just yet. There are two methods for managing it. One, there's bins in the trash rooms on every floor and that's collected by management and then brought down to the trash room. The other is it's a it's a sorter. So you go up to the the the trash shoot and you
say I'm hitting recycling and then you dump your recycling down the chute and that goes into a separate area where it can be recycled. Um and then the other then you hit trash and you put your trash down the chute and that goes into the trash container. So there are pluses and minuses to both methods. Um you know
you're relying on people to push the right button, whip their trash down the chute. Uh if collecting it in the the uh trash rooms. It's more reliable, but you do have to then carry, you know, uh recycling through the building, which is not desirable.
For the board's benefit, we'd be happy to provide a trash and recycling plan as part of resolution compliance here to the satisfaction of Paul's board's engineer. We'll lay it all out for you guys so that you have that on record for what our operations will be. >> I'm sure you can. I think that's a good idea.
>> Yeah. So, and and um in Somerset County, and I don't know if it's the same all over, you know, that we separate some of the recycling as well. So, therefore, if you were to use this automated system, it would have to really have three
choices instead of two. >> So, yeah, then that would be part of uh you know, like like I said, it's not decided at this point because we haven't put together that plan yet and understanding all the county requirements. So, uh, like they said, they'll put together a plan to manage
all of the recycling and the trash and and you'll get that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Sure. So, additionally, at this level, we have bike storage. Um, so there's plenty of uh bike storage. It's going to be uh we know we're getting a lot of
ebikes now. So, uh there'll be plenty of room in these rooms for both ebikes and regular bicycles. Uh we also have tenant storage at this level. There are people who have seasonal stuff. There's not enough room in the apartment to store some seasonal stuff. So they can rent some storage
space within the building that they can bring down and and and put that uh down in that storage. >> Like lockers or cages. >> Yeah. Yeah. Very similar to that. This is all >> So if you ride your bike there, you you can put it in this room. >> Yes. Lock it up in the room.
>> Power. If it's an ebike charger, you bring it in and you can charge it there as well. >> And then neighborhood kids, if they want, they could put their bike in there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's better than having them walk through the building with their bike and bringing it up to their room. >> No, I'm If you go to the restaurant, you want to ride your bike. >> Oh, no, no, no. So, that's different.
The there's there's bike there's actual bike uh stands outside of the rest outside along the front where you can just ride your bike up and lock it up. >> Was there too? Uh somebody was going to >> Well, landscape will let the landscape architect will point out all those locations for you.
>> And what about the fire issue with the ebikes? I mean, you're putting them inside. >> So, yeah, we can put them inside. This at this level, this is a concrete level. So, this is almost all non-combustible at this level.
>> Good. >> Before we had mentioned uh there were some fire concerns. I'll point out all the stairwells in the building, but this building is while it can be sprinkled 13R, we're going to fully sprinkler it with a type 13 system.
>> Okay. >> Um, we can go to the next slide. >> Yeah, sure. >> Sorry, just one question. The the ebike >> inside a building. There's a lot of entities that are getting weight from putting things inside buildings and putting them in some other type of enclosures and such. Is there going to be some other special considerations for
that room for fire protection? If there is a well, it's a fully sprinkled building, so there'll be plenty of sprinkler heads in that in that uh in that room. But if we work with we'll work with your fire department, and if they have reservations about it, we'll just not use ebikes in that in that
room. continue. >> It does invoke sort of the question of since we know ei becoming so popular, people will have them. >> If they don't put them in that room for whatever reason, as Brian has suggested, it might be a hazard. Would they then
take them up to their apartment and would it be a hazard there? I >> I I don't believe that we would do that, but that's a management issue. I'm not sure how that would be managed. >> Definitely. >> It would have be a policy for management that you cannot bring bikes into the building. ebikes in the building. >> But if I can't bring in the building,
where am I going to put it? If the screw just will never be able to handle >> I mean, a solution could be they just have some there's some outlets out outdoors that they could be charged and then just brought in after they're charged. >> Yeah, we can talk about this. It's not the issue is not the the charging, it's
the it's the fully charged battery. >> We'll we'll abide by all fire codes and local codes and we'll work with you guys on this. I mean I know ebikes are fairly new technology but we going to abide by all state and local codes on this. >> We just got to find balance. So you don't want someone bringing to their apartment and then do things in their or
their condos or whatever and do there cuz this whatever is going in the building is absolutely not going to handle a battery fire. Understood. If you have a special designated area that it's built up special for it and it's enhanced with it. So if that's enough for the consideration for that. So just
a little bit above in a special area specifically that's where ebikes are going to be stored ra that's that's designed for it eliminate through management or whatever people bring them to their apartments if possible. >> I think we can agree to having the dedicated area for the bikes there and
work with your car what that needs to be checked. >> Okay. Okay. So, at this level, this is the the main level, the the retail level that fronts Bert Mills Road. And then you can see there's a small little pinkish area, the right, that's the
residential lobby that fronts the parking to the right. That's where tenants could from that parking area access that lobby to go up to their room. The larger pinkish area to the left, that's the main lobby and leasing area there. That's where there'll be
plenty of amenities. And I'll show some sample pictures of the types of amenities that we'll have. and that'll be the next slide. But um what I want to talk about is the deliveries for the building which really was just touched on briefly. So FedEx and UPS and Fresh Direct and Uber and everybody will go to
that front door. Um and we have a small drop off area there where that you can pull up pull in and drop your FedEx packages off or drop your UPS stuff off. There'll be a mail room, a package room inside that lobby space and tenants will be notified when they have a package or
mail. can use a pointer or help us out uh to to see or maybe you want to stand up there. >> If I could just use this, it' be great. >> I have somebody follow it out.
>> So, can you see my cursor here? >> The cursor is hard to follow. That's a universal color. It's not just one thing. Let me grab the microphone and walk up to the point. >> Thank you. So, this is the lobby and amenity area. This lobby and amenity space. And you
can see this hatched area just outside that front door. That's where you can come up. The truck can come in, pull up to that hatched area, drop off any kind of stuff that is needed. just brought into a package room that's inside and then um or mail if it's a mail truck or
picking up somebody they know they'll be notified that their Uber's here and they can just come down, get in and take off. So that's all managed right here. Inside there's a lobby, a leasing area. So there's a leasing agent that's going to be inside and uh there to manage all the
packages and notify the tenants when there's something to be done. Is there concier desk there where someone comes into the lobby or how is that like who's actually notifying for packet? I'm just curious. So something's coming versus just >> It's usually the leasing agent that is
managing it, but if they have a full-time concierge, that person will be in charge of doing something like that. I just wanted to show you some of the samples of the these are actually uh amenity spaces uh that KRE has built in the past. They're very high quality
materials, very well amenitized. Um big space. You see pool tables, seating areas with fire fireplaces. There's the fitness areas uh for gyms where people can go and work out. um small seating areas and some co-work spaces. Uh next
slide, please. Again, you can see some more. This is more of a co-work space where you get some areas where you can sit with a laptop, plug it in. You know, a lot of people are working from home still, a couple days a week at least. And this gives you the ability not to just sit in your apartment. You go down with other
tenants and and work and you almost feel like you're in an office space. But you usually a great room, lounge. It's all listed here. leasable party room, library, screening room, game room, fitness center, yoga studio, sports simulator. Those are very popular
nowadays. It's not just golf, but you can do baseball, you can do a lot of different things. >> And where are these amenities? In the in the building itself. >> Could you go back a slide in that pink >> in that lobby on the west? >> All right. So, that's all located in the in this pink area. >> Yes.
>> All that's going on in there? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> How many square feet is that? >> That's about 8,000 square feet. >> 8,000? >> Mhm. Oh, that's big. Yeah. Okay. >> Next uh go to those. >> Oh, go back one. Just want to make sure I hit all the amenities. Yeah. So,
there'll be package lockers and a pet spa. Actually, uh those are very popular because you don't want to wash if you have a dog or a cat. You don't want to wash them necessarily. Sometimes you have a small sink or tub and you're leaning over. They provide these pet spas where you can, you know, it's a larger table. You can wash your dog at
the level that you're at and they have little dryers you can dry them. Uh they're really a popular amenity in these apartments. Uh next >> I'm seeing >> so this is a a typical uh lot layout. You can see we're showing the different types of units wrapping around here.
We've labeled all of the uh low and moderate units labeled as as CO units. They're sprinkled all throughout the building. You wouldn't know if you walked these hallways which one was and which one was not. In fact, if you walked into one, they're likely appointed very similar to all of the other units. You wouldn't know even just
walking into one. >> Uh, next slide, please. >> What would the difference be, if any? >> Sometimes they're slightly smaller. You know, um, if this is round four, they're only allowed to be a certain amount smaller. Um, if it's round three, they can be somewhat smaller. There's
minimums and on the sizes and I can show you some typical they're all open floor plans. So they have an open living dining kitchen area bedroom usually uh typical two bedrooms have two baths
and you know is a onebedroom still large open living space and go and I'll show you some typical KRE uh apartment buildings. >> Can we enlarge that a little bit? Oops. Can that be zoomed in a little? >> Zoom into say this this unit right here.
>> Yeah, any any one of them just so >> or that one. That's fine. So, they all have washer and dryer in the unit. >> And that's a onebedroom. >> This is a onebedroom unit. Yeah. You can see the kitchen with an island. They have a nice large living space and then
uh bathroom uh and washer dryer as well as a nice large bedroom. You can see a small mechanical unit that's in there. Every unit will get a mechanical unit. And then there's a condenser on the roof. And I'll point that out when we get to the roof plan
that um that controls that each unit. So we'll >> condensing unit. >> There's going to be 140 condensers up on the roof. We've created these wells in the roof that you won't see them, but they're up in the up on the roof. You pan down to the two-bedroom, and I'll just quickly walk through that one.
So again, two-bedroom, large living dining area with the kitchen. Another master uh another bedroom here, primary bedroom. It's got the bath access, direct access to the bath. Uh the other bedroom access through a closet, but that's the bathroom that you can access from the common space.
>> And what's the square footage on that? >> Uh this one is 11.89, the twobedroom. Okay. >> And then next slide, please. I'll show you some sample pictures. So these are um some samples. You have a
nice terrace on almost all the units will get a terrace. Um and then see the way the design of the kitchens very wellappointed. Um granite countertops. Um sometimes stainless steel appliances. Uh nice eating areas, bedroom
wellappointed. And then you can see the the door out to the terrace. All those terraces face the courtyard. >> Uh, they face they face outward in some areas and some they face the courtyard. When I get to the elevation, I can point some of the terraces out to you.
Next slide, please. So, we have the roof plan. So, you can see we've created these little wells. It's a pitched roof. We've created these little wells that go down into the roof, and we can put all these condensers in those wells. uh you won't see them from
the road when you're walking around the building. You'll just see the roof and we've hidden all of the mechanical systems from view. Next slide. This is my last slide. We comply with the building height of 55 ft. Um we do have some lights mounted to
the building. Um they're all down lighting. Uh and they're accent lights at the entries. So, we have lights at the retail and we have lights at the primary entry to the residential and everything is down lit, but they're really accent lights. They're not for
lighting any of the surfaces. They're just to point out the locations on the building at nighttime. And that's it. Oh, I can point to some of the terraces. So, you can see terraces here, here, here, here.
You can locate them here. We usually put them in a location. We accent them with a a roof and a pitched roof. >> And that's it. That's the rest of my test. That's the last of my testimony. >> Lord, anything? >> One one question. I was taking a look at
the floor plan. Uh elevator access. First of all, the elevators that you're showing on there, I assume they're going to be large enough for people to move to put furniture in on moving day, right? >> Absolutely. Um, and the only thing I'm concerned about is that you have, it looks like you only have a single cab in the main lobby and a single cab for the
other lobby, right? Is that going to be enough for a building that size? People want to be standing around waiting forever for the update. >> Yeah, the the new Gen Twos move pretty quickly. It's not an old hydraulic elevator like they used to move much slower. Um, these are much faster elevators. Uh, but we'll work with a
elevator uh utility elevator consultant and if they tell us we need to add one, we'll we can add it. So, and you might want to consider a second one at least on the west on the west lobby and that's the only one that has access to the lower level too, right? >> Yeah, that one we have and that one would be dedicated for when moveins
happen, >> right? Okay. >> Anybody else on the board? Did you just do you have a picture of where the stairwells are? >> Sure. Could we go back to that main floor plan? >> Zoom in right there.
So, we have a stairwell over here. a stairwell here and a stairwell at the end of this corridor here. So there are three stairwells in the building and the way we can there was discussion about fire access around the building and that actually affects how we design the the
fire areas in the building. These building will be broken up into different fire areas and each fire area needs to be served by a stairwell. So, we haven't determined where that is yet, but we usually look at the building, the layout, determine where we can create a nice firewall in the building. And that
means we create a wall that goes from all the way from the roof right down to the grade that prevents it's a usually a two-hour rated wall that prevents fire from spreading across the building. So, each area is self-contained. >> Can you show again what the where the
stairwells are? >> Sure. There's one here. There's one here. Wait, wait. That the one that one where? >> This one? >> Yeah, there. >> Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. There's one here, here, and here.
>> Oh, and there's one here. >> I said there's a fourth one. >> Yeah, there are two that go all the way down to the to the ground level. >> And this one ends up in the lobby. Uh, yes, we can open it up. >> I have another question. Sorry, I know it's getting late, but is this structure
a concrete block structure? Is it wood frame? No one's talked about what it's built made of. >> Sure. It's there's portions of the structure that are concrete and port and portions of the building that are wood frame. We haven't fully determined the extents. We have some large spans over
the lobby space. Uh so we want to make sure that we can make those spans and you can't do that with wood. So we're probably going to do that with concrete. That lower level, majority of that is going to be concrete. Um the retail area, that's going to be concrete because you can see it's all open. There's no intermediate bearing walls.
And we want to be flexible with in the retail area whether we, you know, tenants change over time. We want to make sure we can shift and move those walls around with a lot of flexibility. >> Okay. >> But for the apartments, you you have under the code, you could build four stories stick and >> Yes. Yeah.
>> primarily be stick construction. >> That That's correct. So in and around those areas that I discussed is woodframe construction. >> Think we can open it up to the public. Again, if there's anyone online, you can unmute yourself, raise your hand. If you are in the audience and you'd like to
come up, you can come up to the podium. >> You have to come up to the podium. >> Wondering. >> Yeah, I didn't know there's any play areas for children. >> You you have to start with giving your name. >> Sorry. Yeah, my name is Michael
Prenagghast. P R E N D E R G A S T. Uh, I live at 917 Timberbrook Drive in Bedminster, 07921. >> Thank you. >> I was just looking at the plans. I don't see any play areas for children.
>> So, while we didn't show you the layout of the amenity space, we just called it amenity. We didn't actually list a play area. Usually there is some area near the the fitness area that we can that that kids can go and and and play. It's geared to gear to small cher.
>> Anything outdoors, playground area, anything like that? >> Uh nothing. >> I'll let the landscape architect talk about you know what's being done out on the in the outdoors. >> Yeah, that's my only question. Yeah. >> Thank you.
Anyone else from the public online? No one. >> Not online. No. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Our uh next witness is Tom
Bower from Milo Bower and Carmen. >> Good evening, Mr. >> Sir. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God. >> Yes, I do. >> And please state your name, spell your
last name, and give us a business address. >> Yes, certainly. My name is Thomas Bower. B- AR. My office address is 200 Union Avenue in Belle, New Jersey. Okay. >> Mr. Mr. Bower has been previously
qualified by the board um as an expert in uh landscape architecture. Um, we'd like that qualification to continue. >> Yes, he will be accepted as a certified landscape architect. Please go ahead, gentlemen. >> Thank you very much. Good evening, folks. Uh, you've heard plenty of uh
testimony about the site plan today, so I don't have to go over that with you, but I'm here I'd like to accomplish several things tonight. I'll talk a little bit about the landscape uh of the entire site uh both outside the building and inside the courtyard. Uh we'll talk about uh and I would like to emphasize a
little bit of the hardscape uh discussion having to do with the retail area and that courtyard that you've been uh introduced to. We then jump across the loop road and I'll talk a little bit about the Pluckin Schoolhouse Park and what the improvements are that we'll be in proposing there. And then lastly,
I'll finish up with a presentation of the signage throughout the site which is which is critical. Um so with that I will very simply tell you that from a landscape perspective we maybe next live next slide. Uh where are slides? Next slide if you would John please. Uh
throughout the entire site we have a very very extensive pallet of of material that includes uh shade trees, evergreens, flowering trees uh certainly uh uh ornamental grasses and shrubs and extensive ground cover. So, our goal is
to create a landscape that has four season interest throughout the year. Uh, we're proud of what this is going to look like. We're trying to complement the beautiful architecture with the attractive landscape. Uh, on this slide, as you can see, along Bert Mills Road, we have uh street trees, shade trees, if
you will, lining the street. Uh, there's a mix of of oaks and maples uh along that area. Throughout the site, we have uh five or six different varieties of shade trees for for various uh seasonal color throughout the year. Um uh I do
want to point out in this area the the courtyard as we've referred to the it's really a shared area between vehicles and cars, I'm sorry, vehicles and pedestrians. Uh that entire brown area in front of the retail the central area we refer to as a as a plaza if you will.
Uh you heard testimony earlier that it can be closed off uh to traffic at any point in time for perhaps a community event such as a farmers market or an arts and crafts fair. Uh it was mentioned a tree lighting earlier by Mark. Uh it's a great area. It will also act as a speed table. You heard
testimony that is flush. However, it is slightly elevated so it will slow traffic as cars are driving through it. Uh when and if cars do drive through it. There is some parking in that area. Uh so in a normal day when it is open cars can park in that area. When it is closed
it will just be for pedestrians on the rare occasion maybe on a Saturday afternoon of that kind of function when when a community event will take place. Uh there is a seat wall in in front. You see the curved area facing the street and I'll show you a few slides later that we have a graphic signage on that
that says the Bedminister chapter on it. Right behind that seat wall are bicycle racks. We've had had uh questions about where bicycle parking is. I think that we have enough parking there for 20 bicycles to park right behind that wall as part of that PA courtyard. There's
also some bicycle parking to the right of the retail area. You see the the retail area in blue to the right corner as Chris is pointing out. There's another 10 or 12 uh bicycle uh parking spaces in that location. So I think that's ample for to uh uh provide
adequate bicycle parking for the retail components. Uh let me jump to the next slide. Uh and we're going to talk about I'm sorry this was a view I have a couple of perspective views of this area. You saw this same view at nighttime. This is that view in daytime.
And you can see again in the foreground this is Bt Mills Road in front of us. You can see the curved wall that serves as a seat wall. It says has signage on it. Uh we'll get talk about a little bit more detail. It says the Bedminister chapter right there. The bicycle parking is right behind that. You'll notice uh
closely that we also have three flag poles coming up out of that wall. In the center is American flag, there's New Jersey flag, and then there's the chapter flag to the right side. So, three flags there, uh which will provide some color and amenity in that area. This area, again, I mentioned it's a
speed table. It's beautifully decorated with rich pavers. Uh there is there are string lights that will go across this area. So, it's really a a great great uh public space, if you will, uh that that as as the front door of of the retail
area. Next slide, please. This is a little bit closer look of of that retail frontage. Again, you can see the decorative pavement on the ground plane. The attention to detail is something that's very important to us with a different mix of various paving materials and color. You can see the
site furniture, umbrellas, site signage above the the canopies for the doors, and you get a feel for the string lights. Of course, there's residences above who are all looking down upon this area for a great, very, very attractive uh view out of their homes.
Next slide. Uh you've heard testimony about the outdoor uh dining area. This is that corner, the left corner of the retail. If we think about the plan on the left corner, this area immediately in front of us is is covered outdoor dining perhaps off of a restaurant. You
can see get a feel for the movable furniture that we anticipate along the retail streetscape. And again, the lush amount of plant material in numerous varieties of plant material again for seasonal interests. Lighting on the entire site. I should mention lighting. We have polemounted lighting throughout
the parking lot and sidewalk areas. Uh there are some ballard lights along this back area on the on the south side that I'll point out and then there are string lights across the the uh uh uh courtyard area. Uh so the entire site is very well
lit with all LED fixtures. Next slide, please. If we jump to the southern side, uh this is the back the southern portion of of the building that fronts the stream. And I'll tell you, if you're not familiar with it, it's a beautiful area. That stream is a lovely area, very park-like feeling. It's
perhaps one of the nicest spots to to rent a unit in this area because we're overlooking that that wooded area in the stream. It's very pleasant area that today is is a parking lot out there will be turned into a very nice space and and you heard testimony from Rob about the pedestrian circulation. Some of that
walkway is existing so give the opportunity for pedestrians for for residents and public to circumvent the entire site. Uh again lush plant material added to some of the existing material that is along the stream carter on this slide stay there for a moment
John on this slide let me point out that uh the what you what was referred to as the donut in the center that is an outdoor amenity area has I don't think anyone's touched on that yet today uh there will be several amenities it's about about a 10,000 square foot outdoor space about a quarter of an acre if you
will there will be private patios uh for the units for the homes that are at grade level to uh uh enjoy the outdoor space there. There will also be balconies up above as as Jack Raker indicated. In that on that plan, we currently show a pool in there in
addition to some other features such as a fireplace, an outdoor television, perhaps a botchi court or a lawn area for for casual relaxation. We're not sure about the pool because it's a small area. A pool area, as we all know, is closed for 3 months or closed for 9
months a year. It's open only 3 months. So we may we're considering ownership is considering not doing a pool in lie of other amenities that would be more usable for the 12 months of the year. So that's an area in flexible but it's a terrific amenity for the private use of
the residence. And next slide and this is you you've seen us at the nighttime shot. This is a daytime shot of the retail front door. You can see the Benmister chapter uh signage up above and you see the drop off area with the change in pavement with some rich textured pavement as a drop off area for
Uber or resident drop off pickup that kind of thing. Next slide. This is a a little bit of closer look there. You can see the attention to detail again in the pavement, the graphics, the signage, the building materials, the potted plants as an extension of the landscape throughout
the site. again for a a yearround interest in the landscape. And the next slide, we're going to take a look at the park here for a moment. There you go. So, we we talked about direct access, sidewalk access being
extended along Bert Mills Road, so we have direct access to the park. We are then extending a new sidewalk down into the park from Bert Mill Road that will will access the ball field, the basketball courts, and the and the new pickle ball courts that we will be constructing. As you know, in addition
to the pickle ball courts, we also have some picnic tables that we're adding into the area uh above uh near the playground area. Uh there is landscape uh shade trees and flowering trees added into the park as well in the center median of the parking lot that will be
treelined. There are trees around the picnic area and then trees down along the ball field as well. So these are some very nice improvements to the park. There is a playground there. You someone was mentioned that the question was asked about play for kids. We do not anticipate many children in this community. Uh it's mostly young
professionals uh and and and young young toddlers perhaps, but kids of age would be able to use this park uh if necessary. But uh there would be no additional playground as part of our community other than this area here. Question.
>> One second. Yeah. So I I may not be informed, but you've already made agreements with the township to refurbish this park for us. >> Yes. >> Yes, we have. >> Okay. I wasn't aware that >> was a condition of our prior approval. We intend to honor that. So,
>> thank you. >> Yeah, that's a nice addition. >> Yeah, very nice. >> Okay. >> Okay. Next slide. >> We're now going to talk a little bit about signage. I've got a number of signs here and I'm going to read right through these and and simplify this, but sign is very very important and we've
done a very very nice job I think graphically andformationally uh to provide project identification as well as wayfinding throughout the entire site. So, our first slide is going to address the retail monuments. Okay, this is uh the residential area.
Um uh I'm sorry, this is the retail area. The next slide is Yeah. So, I've got the the retail monument as you can see. There's a little keep plan up in the top left. A little bit hard to see, but up on the corner of of uh of the Loop Road and
Bert Mills Road is a retail monument. Uh it will be utilized for retail tenants only with property branding as you can see here the C and the BMR chapter logo. Um it will be halo lit for illumination and down lit from under the canopy. A
down lit. So there is no up lighting anywhere. I should point out everything is either halo lit or down lit. Uh next slide. >> Excuse me one second. I'm sorry. >> Yes sir. >> I I can't see from here. What is the dimension of that monument? >> That's about 8 feet high by by 9 ft wide.
>> Okay. So have >> and I should point out also that it's actually replacing all of the the three existing signs that are now. So instead of having an assemblage of of signs, we're incorporating into into a monument sign. >> So this this is in clear violation of
our codes for signage. >> And I don't know if anyone's talked about coming back at a later date to do variances for signage. >> Yeah, I I think that our that you're going to hear a variance uh testimony from our next witness, Larry. Right. Correct.
>> Sure. We think we can um accomplish all that uh this evening. We have um Tom's going to give you a detailed overview of all the signs and then Mr. Kennedy's going to go through all the uh variances we would need for the signage. There's quite a few because of the uh wayfinding signage we need for the the different
uses on the site, but they're all we believe they're all necessary. >> Okay. So, we we'll list the signage requests for signage waiverss or variances, whatever. >> Yes. Yes, it is. One of the things that that happens in town is, you know, we're
very conscious of signage and if you have a an 8 foot monument sign like this and everyone's has this little other little sign in town, it becomes a real issue like how in the world did that those group of people get, you know, you know, that kind of sign when we fight
for a, you know, eight square feet kind of thing. So, we might have to talk about that a little bit further in my mind. I don't know where. Okay. >> Sure. Sure. Um um Mr. Bower will will give you all the signs that we're proposing and uh Mr. Kennedy will go
through the requests for the variances or the waiverss that were that pertain to them. We'll walk you through all them very slowly when Mr. Kennedy comes up. >> Okay. Thanks. Next slide, John. So, this is the uh you know, I'm going
to walk up here a little closer so I can read this and try to zoom in. Yeah. open >> our residential medium. There are two of these. Again, if you see the the corner on the on the residential side off of the loop road, we have two of these
signs. These are 4t high by 8t wide. Two of them to locate the residential uh uh entrances to the community. residential building letters. Uh again the Bedminister chapter we have have uh uh at each at the residential entrance
above above the entry doors hello lit letters to identify the the the building with the bed minister chapter with the with the granny logo within the parking lot. We have several future resident parking lots. I think we have four of these spaces identified as future
resident party. What was that what's that mean? Future resident. >> Sorry, >> I don't understand. What is that? >> It says future resident parking. This will be located at parking spaces on the residential side of the building.
>> That mean for future >> future res future resident parking. >> What does that mean? That mean >> people going for >> you're going to come in. All right. >> You're going to leave and you're going to check it out. See what the Yes.
>> That's future future tense. future. >> We actually anticipate going to become a resource. You're definitely a future current res. >> You heard about the loading service. >> I thought everybody ft wide by 4t high. Okay. And it provide
directional visibility for vehicular traffic. Again, located in the in the corner where the ability area is. Residently parking is next. Resident parking again uh located in this area. We talked about that that
parking in green is is dedicated to residential parking. There will be two of these signs located in that area. >> That's on the east side. >> That's on the east side. That's right. >> Two two >> uh resident parking. Yes. >> Three. Got a lot of signs.
>> Do they have lights these signs? Uh, >> this one is non lumin. Does not have lights. >> Can I Can you blow on where? Yeah. Yeah. I can't tell where these >> Yeah. I apologize. Let's keep But this is the green the green. Remember the
green parking stalls? >> Yeah. >> Up to the top right. Parking only. In front of it. Res. This is resident only parking. >> So, you need two of them. >> Yes. >> Or they're going to go on either side or
If you can can you enlarge this job? Here you go. One at the entrance to each each drive aisle. >> Mhm. >> And the intent of this we've studied a lot of different configurations. It came up earlier about how are we going to separate re retail traffic versus
residential traffic. We looked at gates >> like some sort of physical barrier. And we ended up thinking that due to fire access and trying to keep the site as open as possible that the least intrusive method that we could do was put these two wayfinding signs here that signal this area parking lot is for
residents. Residents only. Okay. And it's 4 foot by 2T did you say? That's correct. >> 2 ft wide by 4t high. Okay. >> All of the green banner signs you'll see are the same dimension. >> Next slide. And how how high off the ground is? Four feet high.
>> Four feet high. >> Four feet. >> So there's no from the ground. Four feet. Four feet. That's right. >> Let me jump to retail signs again in this location. Next slide. John tell a
little bit about these. So again this is uh we're inches way. This is like same size 8 by9 roughly. Uh this is a uh the retail sign at at Bert Mills Road at the main entrance off of Bert Mills Road. There will be this side masonry side
with the branded logo and the tenants to be determined obviously and they will be halo lit one main entry side >> and and it's perpendicular to uh >> yes it is perpendicular to B Mills Road. You know, the only issue with some of those
sometimes you're you're blocked. You can't see depending on where you're going coming in and out. I you know, I hope you take that into consideration. >> I think again it's perpendicular so you can see it arriving from either direction.
>> Well, you know what I said at least 10 ft back from the drive lines. We have Gary Vee who's looked at all the sight triangles >> because there's some signs in town that are too close. >> Totally. We We've set them back off the street, but they don't block. >> I think that I think the code is 15 ft
actually. >> Then that is the number. We we those are compliant as far as Okay, next slide. And this are branding. We have two of these locations for branding. As you can see, uh this the C is the branding logo.
Uh and and this is on the this this sign would be located near the corner of the retail where we had the open outdoor seating which gives you directions uh to where the leasing office would be around the corner. So a branding logo and a and a lobby and leasing directional sign on
that portion of the building. Next slide. And then again Randy logo the the chapter the bed chapter logo on the main facade up high above the building. And it'll be a nice detail to it graphically to identify the builder.
Next slide. Then tenant signage. Obviously these are three different elevations. Uh there will be some tenant signs that are wall mounted. Some have be awning mounted. These two are wall mounted and awning mounted. And again they would all be
halo lid. Uh and 24 square ft maximum for each side. >> 24 square ft. >> Yes. What what do those signs say for tenants? >> It would be whatever again to be determined. If right now it just say graphically saying retail ABCD, but it would be what
if it's a restaurant. >> What's the dimension again? >> 6x4, right? >> 24 square ft is what we proposed. >> 24 square ft. >> 6 by4. >> How many businesses is that or approximately >> to be determined? We are anticipating a
maximum of maximum of seven shops. So you could have seven different names. >> That's right. Yes. There will be one per 10. >> Yes. >> So we end up with two. We have two. >> Yeah. >> So each one will have approximately a 2 by 12 sign each one each.
>> Yes. >> As a max smaller. Next slide. Take us to the wall. This is our sit wall. again one the curved wall facing B mills road where we'll indicate the the
branding C and the Mr. chapter on a three-ft high masonry wall, right? And that will be halo lid as well. Sorry. And these are just some graphic examples. This is an example of what halo lid looks like.
Uh uh the light is within the letter behind it. It'll certainly cast a very subtle light on on a on a wall behind it. Uh edge lit is another example of a type of side of lighting that can happen. And then of course wash when we talk about washing down from the from
the coping of a wall as an example. This is what that would look like. So again no uplighting any slide and then there's bank side as well. Uh yeah so Bank of America again we have to we're coordinating with Bank of
America still to be determined but we do feel like we need some double-sided signs. We need to identify the drive-thru and in each direction. Again, these would be the same 2 feet high, 2 ft wide by 4t high. So, very subtle. And again, these would be replacing some of
these signs that exist on site today. And again, we're coordinating down with the bank. And then there will be a sign there will be a uh what's called a uh a clearance uh um monument. I think it's 9 ft high to to limits the the height of
vehicles that can go drive through to go through the drive-thru. U the bank clear the bank. That's right. Banks. >> And then a couple more signs, wayfinding signs along the loop road. Next. Next.
Yes. So just general directional side. Bank parking. Again, the same size, 2x4, bank parking, drive-thru, retail, uh where the residential lobby is as necessary along the loop road and then throughout the sides. We have I think we
have three of these located. We may need five. We're actually going to ask for an additional couple of signs. I want to make sure we have adequate weighting throughout the site. But again, I think graphically it would be strong to unify the entire site and the scale is good. Just 2 ft wide by four feet high. Uh,
and I think that would would uh really add to the whole ambiance of the of the community. Next slide. Very funny sign. Again, this would be at the uh at the entrance off of 20220 206 replacing this type of sign with a the
Bedminster one and Bedminster chapter identifying the office uh facility as well as the residential and retail. Okay, next one. and a little bit more of that. Same thing in this in this these two locations as necessary. Employee
parking to be identified and service area to be identified. Again, replacing the employee parking and the service with better graphics with more proof signage. Next job and that is that is that the extent but no light. Lastly, very
important, along the loop road, along the loop road, I think we have 19 existing lights, street lights that we would like to provide banners and these banners will be utilized to identify the Bminster chapter as well as other civic activities that that the township may
have and it could be interchanged for community events. Uh, so >> these are on the loop road. >> On the loop road. Yes, sir. Yeah. There are 19 polls there today existing. Good. >> That'd be nice. >> I I don't know about this.
>> That's >> Yeah, I like that. So, if you're standing in front of the building on on Burke Mills Road, what is the what is the width we're talking about of the property width of the property dimensionally? >> Because I'm just trying to get I'm
looking. So, at the front at the lower street level, you get a bed chat. >> Yes. Three. And then if you're looking just looking a little above that on the top when you walk in, it's going to say Bedminister chapter. And if you look to the right, there's going to be an 8t by
9 ft sign says Bedminister Chapter. And if you look right to your left, there's going to be 8 foot by 9 foot sign that says Bedminister Chapter. And they're going to have the name of all the tenants on each side. And you're going to just look at right in the front of you. And there's going to be the names
of the tenants right in the front, too. You can see I'm already feeling a little overwhelmed by this. It's I could just be me. >> No, it's not. This is not >> We don't want you to get lost. >> You got enough lighting, I assume. But
>> I think there's going to be a lot of time in my opinion. It is. um it's almost too much to absorb right now. To to give you a little background, last year I was on the Bedminster sign
committee and so we look at all the different signs in town and all and something like this with this many signs and this dimensions would have allowed our heads to explode in that committee. It's just way beyond anything we've have anything close to intel. Okay.
>> So we may have to take this as a separate issue or look at it different. I I don't know. I mean, that's just how I feel. I I agree. I like how I like the way you're trying to brand it and everything. Don't get me wrong. I just think that I don't know if the site is needs all that to be honest.
>> It's a matter of scale perhaps. >> Well, yeah, people might not, but that's a lot. And I don't know. Maybe if you knew, of course, you want to identify there, but we we know that it's >> I mean, I'm not going to forget it. Mr. Chap, >> it it seems like it might be a lot. So we can investigate that. I love
everything about it. That might be a little bit >> if that was removed from the sign. It reduces the overall sign itself. Chapter example, you have the retail like see the retail right on the top of the store. So >> the front in two places. >> Yeah. Maybe some redo or rethinking of
the signage would be helpful. Okay. >> And timing on on the lights. What you know what are you thinking as far as timing wise? time. I I think they I think certainly they will be when during the daytime during the active night time they need to be at full illumination and
I think they can be dimmed after perhaps after midnight they can certainly be dim if we want like that >> but again >> we're willing to uh not to interrupt but we're willing to um kind of um move on with our presentation then um between
our our traffic expert and Mr. Kenny, take a short break and come come back and and uh let you know what we want to do with the signs. >> Okay, we're going to take a fivem minute break. >> Not now. After we just want to get through our traffic engineer and then we'll take a short break and then come back. >> Take a break before the traffic.
>> I just We're ready. >> If I could ask a I'm sorry, this is Paul from I ask a a a question while the witness a couple of questions while the witness is still there. Um >> Sure. >> Sure. Yes.
>> And then this relates to my review memo and I just wanted to confirm that the the lighting along the loop road is being continued AC along the entire loop road because it didn't seem like it that way on the plan. It only look like a portion of the loop road.
>> It it's continuous along the entire loop road. Yes. >> Okay. And the other question I had was about the halo lit signs that are in front of the glass areas. Uh, I have a concern when you've got the lights on the LEDs on the back of those signs and they they're backed up to
windows and the glare that might reflect off that glass. Have you have you looked at that? >> Those lights are not halo. They are edgely lit. The light ones in front of the glass. Yes. >> So edge lit.
>> No reflection. >> Describe what edge lit means then. I'm not quite sure I understand. Yeah, it's uh we had a graphic that showed it. If if we can go back, John, it's a more subtle light than the than the than the uh it's hard to tell here,
but it's more subtle light than the halo light. We we'll ensure that there will be no light reflected onto the glass. That was all I had. Okay. >> So, Paul, are you satisfied with with the lighting plan as it stands right
now? >> Well, there I had a number of comments in my letter and I think they're all achievable in the context of resolution compliance. I do need to see some more information. However, >> I think throughout the site there were I I think I counted 36 polemounted lights
throughout the parking area and and pedestrian area in addition to a dozen ballard lights along the walkway in the south side. You have the the strings, right? >> And the string lights are crossing, >> right? So, I mean, those have to be off at a certain time,
>> you know, so you got to come, you know, make a proposal. Well, you know, it's the same condition. >> We can make that a condition of the approval. >> Remind us because, you know, it's been a while. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Okay. Let's just open it up to the
public for this witness. >> Janine. So again, if anybody is online that has something that they'd like to say, raise your hand. Um, you can just start to speak. You have to obviously be sworn in. If you're in the audience, you can come up to the podium.
>> Not seeing anyone. We'll uh we'll move on. >> Okay. Let's take a five minute break and then we'll come back. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. back. >> Hey, we're back. >> Okay, so we heard all of the board's comments regarding signage and uh we've
taken that all into consideration. um we are willing to um pull the signage out of the out of the application tonight and um go ahead with the rest of the components of the approval. And then what we would propose to do is come back
and uh meet with the sign committee or um whomever else at the town at the board level um to flesh out our sign proposal and then um come come back with a subsequent either um reopen the application or come back on an amendment to this one um to get the signs approved
after we met with the sign committee. >> Is that the sighting and the the signs and the lighting or just the signs? We think the signage we think the lights are the lighting is compliant and your board professionals seem to think that as well if I'm reading the review letters correctly but >> to see the you know the nice lighting
plan if you're uh you know when you turn off turn on that would be great very resolution absolutely absolutely >> right we are we are willing to handle the lighting as a condition of
resolution compliance for um this application that we're here for tonight. >> Yeah, I think the signage is just overwhelming. So, that would be a good idea to come back separately. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> So, just to just to um sort of um put
some meat on the bones to that would and with um um I guess Mr. Collins's input, would that be to pull the signage from from this application and then to go before the sign committee? >> I just want to make sure we're clear on >> I don't know. I I uh here's my
preference. uh keep the board will keep jurisdiction of the signage components and variances and we'll set it for a date certain and I don't really think we should have
a sign committee reviewing >> no >> the site plan >> and I but I am satisfied that that the that you know some revamping of the sign application or the signage details s perhaps in coordination with Paul and
Frank could be done by the applicant before a scheduled public hearing that's continued without additional notices so that this keeps moving you know like maybe two months from now or something like that but or three months some
something that keeps you on course for what you would like to do whatever you prefer. Yes, we we prefer we prefer to we prefer to um bring the >> the site plan, the subdivision application and uh all the rest of the
relief um by way of the Dvariances and the other the other variances not implicated in the signs to vote tonight and uh get that approval this evening if the board is so inclined to uh look favorably on those components and then as you're as you're saying um do the uh
signage um with the board having kept jurisdiction but just doing that um once that's fully fleshed out with your professionals and ours. >> Yeah. And then the board would the full board will hear what your revised signage is and the full board would vote
on it. We don't have a standing sign committee for per and I don't recommend that for a for a a site plan application especially not for a varian signed variance application.
understood that that uh we we were simply going um based on uh the comments regarding the sign committee but this procedure is agreeable to us as well. >> Yeah. Just come back to this board. >> Yes. >> Professionals first probably. >> Yes.
>> Because they'll be able to root out a lot of that and then come back to the board with a final plan. >> That makes sense. >> It does. >> Yeah. >> Yes, it does. Um, what what date should we aim for for that? Larry, do you want
to do I I'll leave it to you maybe before the end of the night to decide what that's what but certain when Janine has an open night. So, >> uh, right now all the Thursdays are open for 2026
first and second. We do have some other applications that um are we're waiting on. Uh right, Paul, we have um I I don't know if they would come first. There's still Trump that you have to review. Hold them. We're waiting on their attorney.
>> Okay. Well, we'll figure it out. I'm just um let's >> I don't I don't know that. We have to decide it tonight. I mean, if you guys want to >> Well, we do. If I I would like them to be carried with a date certain and they don't have to come re notice >> about a couple of months. Janine. Oh, okay. I mean, like I said,
>> available, right, Larry? >> Depends on how many how much time they need, I would say. >> Yeah, but they're not that part of the application. Is it urgent? Because what they want is this other approval that they can get moving on. >> Absolutely. >> So, they can come back in July or August and do >> Yeah. I mean, June 4th, Jul June 11th,
July 2nd, July 9th, August 6th, August 13th. >> So, Tom is saying we got to pick one now. They feel >> before the end of tonight. We should pick a date that that sign. the sign the bifurcated or the separated sign application is being um
>> anyone you guys want >> so fast depends on how much time you feel you need >> yes we'll fit you in >> the uh the car open right now >> the first and second we need >> date and you know try to think for that
date yes whatever that is let's continue and we'll decide on a date okay >> let's go >> so I'd like to call Gary Gary Gary Dean, our uh special engineer and traffic consultant, uh to provide traffic engineering testimony.
>> Yeah. >> Thank you, Mr. Dean. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you God? >> Yes, I do. >> And please state your name, spell your last name, and give us at least a business address.
>> Certainly, Gary Dean, Dean. Professional address is 181 West High Street in Somerville, New Jersey. >> Thank you. And the board recognizes and accepts Gary Dean as a expert in traffic engineering.
>> Please go ahead, Gary. >> Madam Chair. Yeah. Uh by way of beef brief background, I've been involved in in this project since its inception when the reasonzoning was first considered and as part of that we had undertaken an extensive study, I'll say to fix the
pluck and signal that has long plagued the community as one of your primary traffic bottlenecks. uh through that effort and and I will say through the collaborative effort between our office, the applicant and the board's consultant at uh Stonefield Engineering, as you've
heard this evening, NJ do has finally endorsed the concept and has moved to official uh developer agreement documents, which are essentially a contract between the KRE, the applicant, and the DOT setting forth the hows and
the wins and the wise and the how much money to implement that traffic signal improvement relative to this application. Candidly, if you like less traffic, this is the right application for you. Uh, as you've heard, there are
20 residential units and approximately half of the retail square footage. As a result of those changes, there will be 26% less traffic in the morning peak hour with this iteration compared to the
approved project and 18% less evening peak hour traffic. And while it's not a whole lot, I mean, it's 35 to 40 cars, nevertheless, in in from a traffic engineer's perspective, less
traffic is always better. Um, I'll let the aesthetics of the project speak for itself, but I find that it is obviously a very in very high character, and I'll I'll leave that to the board to to your opinion. Uh, rather than just coming in and saying, "All right, less traffic.
Thank you and good night." Uh, at the request of the applicant, we nevertheless updated our traffic study with contemporary traffic data, recognizing that it was about five years ago when we did our counts. we were still in the lingering effects of the
pandemic and perhaps traffic wasn't quite as I'll say sustained or typical as it is now. So we updated our entire analysis. Um, it confirms the viability of the DOT improvements at the traffic
signal going from, I'm sure you've heard other traffic consultants describe levels of service, going from ease and f long delays, extensive backups, bringing that all the way up, cutting the delays in some cases in half to a very favorable level of
service D. And at all of the site driveways either at Bert Mills Road or 206, we will be even better at level of service C. All of that remains consistent with the reduced traffic from the uh amendment as you have tonight. Uh
beyond that, I we haven't changed any of our points of ingress and egress. Uh we've certainly had consultation with the county. Um and and certainly my findings tonight are the same as they were originally that the access will continue to remain safe and efficient uh
for this proposed amendment. Uh but in general, as you've seen from the circulation, we're retaining the ring road. We have internal connections. we meet the parking standards and I think that the nature of the use uh between a retail component and residential still
allows for an element a little element of shared parking particularly for residents who may have visitors and guests that typically arrive either after hours or in the evening as not only is Bedminster one I'll say done for
the day but many of the retailers as well. So rather than oversizing the parking um we we have come up with the appropriate supply. There are only two comments I had in in Mr. Secller's uh review which we received today.
Um and it pertains to the EV park spaces. He has said that we need 15% of the total number. That's not entirely correct only because DCA has said you don't need to put an EV where you have existing parking. It's only for new
parking and also there are different ratios between residential EV and commercial EV. We will document that to Mr. Ferros and Mr. Secular's satisfaction. But much like ADA spaces,
they're code. We have to comply and the applicant is committed to do that. Okay. Um, beyond that, that's all I have. And I and I again hope hope that you would equally opine that um or find that less traffic is certainly beneficial. Uh,
though it may be modest, it's certainly an improvement from what you previously approved and considered. And that's all I have for tonight. Thank you. >> Any favor? >> I would agree with this witness. >> I promise to one. Why would we signage
for? >> All right. Fine. I'm sorry. >> So I have Yeah, I have a question. I guess it's why I Yeah. So um our traffic engineer um consultant says on section
under parking section 9 letter A residential uses 1.8 parking spaces per onebedroom unit 2.0 0 parking spaces per twobedroom unit and 2.1 parking spaces per threebedroom unit.
Would you say that you comply with that? Well, there are a few nuances and and I don't want to go off on a tangent. RSIS standards only apply to residential developments that are standalone residential developments where they have
their own separate parking areas, their own separate ingress and egress, their own separate buildings. This is a mixeduse site and RSIS says for mixed use sites we are allowed to consider a shared parking analysis. The second part
is in 2023 RSIS was amended to no longer prescribe minimum parkments. They are now maximum parking requirements legally. I have to defer to the smarter people in the room than I am to say
compliance with RSIS as maximums. If an applicant were to propose less, I don't know that that constitutes a variance or relief is needed. That being said, yes, we comply and RSIs these standards have two components. The first part is the
parking requirement for the people that live there. The other requirement is a half a space per unit for visitors and guests. So th that element is where you have that allowable overlap between using the
available office parking or the retail parking that's not used that night. In my opinion, yes, we comply with the required parking. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. You're welcome. >> Okay. Anyone else?
>> No. We'll open it up. You need >> So for anyone online that has anything to say, if you raise your hand or unmute yourself or you can come up to the Dis. >> Madam Chair, this is Matt Seckler, the board's traffic engineer.
>> Yes. >> I don't know if I need to be sworn in. I was just going to >> Yes, Matt. You do. Please raise your right hand. Uh do you swear for him to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you God. Yes, I do. >> Thank you, Matt. And the board recognized and accepts me secular's
qualifications as a professional engineer and traffic engineer. Please go ahead, Matt. >> Yep. And I'll make it short. I think that uh all the comments that I had in my review letter have been addressed either by uh Mr. Dean or as part of the site or operational testimony. I had some discussions or questions about
assigned parking spaces, pedestrian accessibility to the shared parking spaces on the office lot. All that have been has been answered. So, just wanted to put that on the record. Thank you, Matt. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Thank you for your time tonight.
>> We'll close it. Public. >> Okay. Your next witness. >> Thank you. I'd like to call Ronald Kennedy of Gladstone Design, Inc. >> Thank you. Mr. Kennedy, please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So, how you got?
>> I do. >> Thank you, Mr. Kennedy. in the board. Uh, please state your name, spell your last name, and give us an address. >> Certainly. Ronald Kennedy, ke ny, 265 Main Street in Gladstone. >> Thank you, Ron. And the board recognizes
and accepts Ron Kennedy's qualifications as a professional engineer and professional planner. And please go ahead, gentlemen. >> Thank you. >> Ready? >> Thank you, Mr. Kennedy. Could you uh please uh give the board uh the planning proofs needed for this application? Um
certainly I'm going to put the sign portion away so that's easier. >> Yes. >> Cuts it in half. >> All right. So from a zoning standpoint, we just go through a couple of things. We are in the O BMU zone. Okay. It was created for this lot. Uh when I talked
to Noah earlier tonight and we saw Steve Parker here, we started the conversation probably seven years ago about this piece of land and with meeting Noah knowing what K had an intent a parking lot that was underutilized. Town had a need. We came up with a plan saying how
can we I'll say redevelop this site what made sense there was a need in the town for affordable housing project. There was a lot of different options that were on the table and um the applicant and this board ultimately the governing body spent time coming up with what can we do here? What makes sense? Density was
established. Um the the notion of how we could repurpose the space was established and we came up with a zoning ordinance that referenced a plan and it was exhibit A1 in the ordinance and in that ordinance it had the plan that we originally got approved essentially plus
or minus things and at the time there's no contemplation that the board uh Bank of America would stay and that would be incorporated into the building that we got the approval. you spent years, you know, that was seven years ago. Fast forward to today, that's not going to be
able to happen, right? So that that building stays, but the ordinance still stands as it is because the ordinance is still there. So the things that we're here tonight to talk about are having to do only really with the Bank of America
staying. The relief that we're seeking is only having to do with that. All those initial intents of the zoning except for signage is all the same. Nothing's really changed from a planning standpoint other than that building now is there and it causes relief. The
biggest single relief was in the ordinance there is your current ordinances before even this ordinance was established. There was a section of conditional uses for driveth through banks and it was put in a fair amount of zones that you had get in some of your
office zone get in the VN zone and had stipulated seven conditions or so associated with that. Okay, this ordinance took that out completely and it said that you can have a drive-through bank inside of the ex the proposed building, the mixeduse
building, and we didn't have to comply with any components of the drive-thru bank ordinance because it was standalone. Okay, now that this is standalone and it's not there, we don't need it wasn't a condition, but it was a standard of the zone or of this special
zone that was for this property. So in the OVMU zone which was the mixeduse office research mixeduse development zone the requirement was pretty simple. It was and said that it had to have banks and banks with drive up access in
mixeduse buildings were shown on substantially consistent with the A1 which was the concept. So in this case we're not within the building we're outside the building. So that means we can't comply with that criteria. It's
part of the zone which means now we need a D3 merit. That's why we're here before board of adjustment, not before the planning board. The initial application was before the planning board. So it's kind of quirky. It's a nuance of what we're really doing it. But it doesn't change the use. The use was approved, but because we followed a plan, it said
it was in the building, made sense, but now it's not. So it stands alone. So under that under that criteria of 13 it's 406c1e that not condition that statement that says that it's a permitted use banks and
banks with drive up access in mixed use buildings were shown on and substantially consistent with A1. We don't comply with them and we need relief from that. So it falls under the category of misfand use law of under 7055 D3 a D3 merits which is basically
you're not meeting the condition. Okay. So in that case we're not meeting condition and I'll go through that criteria. There's a question that we debated with with Larry about is that other standard now that's sitting out there that's totally different in a different section under all conditional
uses in all zones 13601.8 eight, which is drive-through banks. There's six or five, two, three, four. There's five conditions associated with those. Three of those we don't need either. So, I'm not sure whether we really need relief from that because it
now it's outside what is in the OBMX, but I want that discussion. We're going to put on the record that we'll ask for relief if there's any question about that from those standards. And they have specific standards. But again, it was never intent to do something that was inconsistent with the zone other than
we're keeping this as a separate building as opposed to incorporating it. And candidly, from my perspective, it wasn't a big component of the property or the project that we had to have it in the building as opposed to a standalone. It was just the conditions that were there. The assumption was the building would go away. So, I don't think as I go
through my planning proofs, I don't think it changes the character of what we're really trying to accomplish from redeveloping the property that we started seven years ago. So under the relief that we need the primary reason that we're talking about is the business arrangements have changed. Okay. It it
needs special reasons and we'll go through that and it also needs to have purposes of the zoning advanced by it just like you hear most of your applications. All right. Under the D3 criteria a little different than a use variance. Okay, which is a D1. The use
is approved allowed. Okay. It's just in the wrong place. Right. Okay. So under D3 um the conditional use variance can be approved in particular cases and for special reasons which is the positive criteria. Right. The key element of this based on some court cases including what
you hear the Coventry Square case which you've heard a couple of D3 variances. The key element of this is does the site remain appropriate for the conditional use despite not meeting all the conditions. So does the site still remain appropriate for the conditional
use not meeting all the conditions? That's the narrowness of how the courts determined you meet the criteria associated with the D3 use permitted. Initial discussions that we had was bank was perfectly allowed in there. Drive-through bank was allowed in there. Our initial approval was a drive-through bank and we had a lane for drive-th
through in there. Um, and again, we still meet the intent of that original plan. It's just back to that standalone. The key element in determining this, if the site still means appropriate, all those public benefits that were originally involved with that project,
still remain, and you heard it all tonight, that it provides affordable housing. We're reducing the project from 160 units down to 140 units, but little quirky, we're increasing the number of affordable units from 24 to 28. Right?
So, benefit to the public, benefit to the community. Additional benefits are pedestrian-friendly retail on the site itself. That's an enhanced benefit that you spend a lot of time in your ordinance writing around the plan that was discussed and debated with this board and the governing body. Pedestrian
connections not only to the existing developments that are in the community itself, but to the park that's right next door. Highly amenized space itself. connections to the plucking park, installation of improvements over there, including two pickle ball courts, landscaping, sidewalk improvements
there, and the biggest single thing that we started with this conversation 7 years ago, you got to fix the traffic light. Okay? And we're still there. That's not changed. So all those things are still here. Even though we're asking for this D3 relief, we still meet all those things. still public benefits
associated with those and the state still remains appropriate for the deviation that we're asking for this. All that being said, we still have to prove the negative criteria associated with that. That's the positive side. The negative side obviously that you've
heard many many times is can it be approved without substantial detriment to the public good? Those amenities that we're just talking about public good. Okay. and it be substantially impaired to the intent and purpose of the zone plan and the zoning ordinances. Again, we spent a lot of time with this board
and your governing body talking through a plan, talking through that one element didn't work associated with this part uh the the the use being inside the building, but it's still consistent to what we spent a lot of time talking about with this original plan. It doesn't affect the character of that
neighborhood. That building's there. If this doesn't get approved, that building's still going to be there. All right? So it doesn't say that the building goes away if this board decides that eh it's not really good for us. The building's still there. Um the other element that it has to have is it has to have um advance the purposes of zoning.
And in this case under you know 4055D2 um I'll go through a couple of those. C to promote adequate light, air and open space. E to promote population densities and concentrations that will contribute to the well-being of persons, neighborhood and communities.
uh I to promote desirable visual environment through a creative development techniques and good civic design and candidly one that we usually don't talk about much especially out in suburban part of the state is to promote and encourage planned unit developments
which promote best features of design for residential, commercial and recreation. This is kind of that. It's not a PUD in pure sense, but it has all those elements that that's there with the office building that's there, with the residential that's there and the retail there. We don't have a lot of projects in one site that does all
those, and we're really promoting that. You heard about um enhanced landscaping features that are there, enhanced elements of the site design that you simply don't have in Bedminster right now that we want to do on this project. Pretty special there. So all those
elements in my view promote the purposes of zoning of why that relief is so important for the D3 variance uh to keep this project uh candidly moving forward. Um the that's the use. In addition to the use,
the subdivision itself creates a whole set of bulk standards that we deviate from just setbacks and it has to do with creating this little lot um around the the I think it was 18 whatever the number of parking spaces were around the parking spaces the bank and the bank
itself. So the desire is that has to be on a separate lot primarily finance reasons has to be on a separate lot and doing that while all the site features remain the same and candle if there's projects built whether the lot lines are there or not still the same project no one's going to see lot lines u but we
have a whole series of minor relief associated with that never intended in the original zoning for that so we had big setbacks the overall project if those lot lines weren't there we meet all the setbacks you know so the setbacks to the road we meet the burnt mills
the setbacks to the adjoining property lines we meet, but these internal setbacks that we don't need. So, I want to read through them because Rob didn't testify on it just to save some time because I'd have to talk about it anyway. And there's four or five of these, but I want to go through those. The minimum distance between buildings,
your ordinance requires 50 foot. We're at 28.9 ft. Right. The minimum lot area in this zone, again, it's a single lot for this zone right now, 6 acres. We're at 63 just around the bank itself. The
lot width, 400 foot required. I think the whole site along Burnt Mills Road is about 475 ft complies. But now, because the the the smaller lot itself that we're creating, the 6 acre lot, we're 165 ft instead of 400t. Lot frontage,
same thing. 400t width, we're 165 ft. Lot depth, 400t. In this case, we're 48 foot a lot depth. Minimum sideyard setback 15 foot. We're 9.1. And then the lot coverage just on this little lot itself that has primarily parking circulation, 75%'s required.
Pretty high number, probably the highest in your in your whole zoning ordinance, but this lot's 83%. The combined two lots, the retail, residential, and the bank, we comply. So there's no issues associated with that. It's just this new lot line we're
creating about the 68 acre lot that we don't comply with those setbacks. So again, like the other proofs we talked about that are enveloped in the D3 U variance, uh it advances purposes of zoning by approving this, you don't see the lot lines. Um it it it clearly
doesn't have a negative impact associated with this. Um it's very approved for the single use that's on there and it's part of the combined project. There'll be a series of cross easements associated with these so that there's protection for uh the public and
certainly protection for um the the the neighbor to neighbor on cross easements for access and all those others and it doesn't change the overall benefits of the design. Uh but they're internal lotines and candidly if we knew we had to do this in the initial application we would have wrote standards in that you
did in another ordinance in this town or another zone in this town where you just define your setbacks to external lot lines not any internal lot lines and that's common these days in redeveloping sites now that it's to perimeters not internal lot lines if you subdivide a
piece of so in any event um I I think that there a series of setback back variances and one lock coverage variance that became granted and it doesn't change what this application's about. >> So based on those uh you know elements
both in the D3 variance and the setback variances I think this board could approve the application as it sits before you right now. >> Yes. Frank, do you have any comment >> on it? >> No, I really don't. I think Ron's made a
really good point when he says that we've been over a lot of this territory. This is so much what we called for before. The distinctions we heard clearly about, I think, haven't reduced the value of the project. It's going to help make pluck a more walkable place.
It's going to bring commercial services that aren't there now. That'll bring more interest into town. So, I'm pretty confident that the benefits he suggested are real and that the departure from the prior application is in everybody's interest. Less traffic for us, more
affordable units. >> Anything about the subdivision itself? >> No, I No, I really think like you said, it's going to be an invisible line. >> Okay. >> Thank you, >> Board. >> No, I'm comfortable.
>> Okay. There's one one other thing it just it it just goes back to what I forgot to say. Design waivers. There's a series of design waiverss that were originally approved. No conditions changed. >> They were for the tree replacement. We're removing actually less trees now because of this. Um and it was for um uh
the size of parking spaces. We had, you know, some 9 by8 parking spaces as opposed to other ones. They were that that were butt to butt, you know, headto-head parking. And then there was another one for all those different buffers, the stream buffers that we went
through a lot of detail on, but there's no change to our grading limits in any of those stream buffers. >> So, we didn't change any detail associated with that area. So, those were approved already. Obviously, we're new application. We'd asked for those same, but the conditions for those design waiverss have not changed from
the original approval. >> They're the same. >> Okay. Ron, I have a question for you. On the original application, which was so many years back now at this point, did we go into detail on the lighting plan and have any discussion at that time?
Any waiverss? Any any was there any problems with the lighting plan? Because we're not seeing a lot tonight about lighting plan, but if it hasn't changed much, >> it hasn't. The only thing that we we spent a lot of time on was the string lights that were inconsistent to what your zoning ordinance has. It looked
like in the resolution though it wasn't a design waiver. It wasn't certainly a variance but it was approved you know for for those things. Um it's a little less now because that area got a little smaller. >> We were looking I thought we made a commitment that those would go off when
the businesses stopped. Yeah. You know that those things but I was looking at the resolution after someone asked a question. George, you may have it. We didn't see it in there but we know that those go off. They're not going to stay on all night. Those would go off at the end of the business. >> Didn't we just have it in there? Yeah.
Somewhere that >> they go off at the end of the night. There you go. >> No, all the other things are the end of the business, you know, as far as whenever time the businesses closed down along the retail side. >> I thought 10:00, you need another hour for everybody to get out of the building
safely. And >> yes, we want them all. >> No, no, we thought that was we discussed that a lot. We talked a lot about that. But I'll say you this l the other lighting it it complies. It's down lighting. It's dark sky compliant. You
know it's it's standard lighting that we do on these applications other than those string lights. We spent a lot of time talking about those string lights. And again it wasn't a condition but I thought we talked about they go off at the end of the business and half hour an hour after the business is closed that they don't stay on the plane. >> Okay. >> I thought it was 11 o'clock but
>> it could have been but we looked at the resolution and didn't say it. So we can add it. That's fine. >> Condition of approval. It could be 11 o'clock now based on what you're doing right now if that's what you want to say. >> Doesn't sound like that would offend anybody. >> No, they don't need to be on all night. I mean, it's a feature that you really
want to when those businesses are open, when there's outdoor activity, that's you want to be there, but at night it's, you know, after businesses are closed. >> All right. Uh, we opened it up to, uh, the public for Ron.
So again, if anybody is online or if anyone is here in the uh audience that would like to come up to the podium or if you'd like to raise your hand, uh unmute yourself online, let us know that you have a comment or a question. I'm sorry.
Doesn't look like there's anyone. >> Oh, seeing no one is anybody will close it to the public. >> The KRE team just reminded me there might be a restaurant open till 11. So >> it's possible >> that a cut off like that over an hour after business closes.
>> That might be the latest business. >> That's reasonable. >> Yeah, it's possible. >> Okay. >> All right. Tom, are you with us? >> Uh yes, Madam Chairman, if you're ready. It's a motion. Well, let's get the date
of the uh the next meeting for the sign package and variances. where you want to go for >> sure. We we just want to be clear that this evening we're going to bring this to a vote on everything that we've put in the record here tonight. The site
plan, the subdivision, all the variances we've covered. Um we're going to get a vote on that. We're going to get a resolution on that. We'd like to start K would like to start the clock on any appeal period and have a resolution that we can use to get any other outside agency approvals uh that we might need.
And um all that being said, we are open to coming back um on another date for these signs, but we do need that resolution. Yes, >> absolutely. That's the whole idea. Um but what let's pick a date and let's You can always carry the date.
>> Yes. said, "I'd like to know when you'd like to be on." We'll carry it to that date without you having a notice again. So that anybody here tonight is interested in the signage, we'll have to come back on that date or a carry date.
So you want to >> Well, it sounds like you're going to do some sort of modification to the sign package to listen to some of the comments of the board. So you're going to talk to Paul and Frank. you want to go for the second meeting in
July? I don't I don't think we're gonna have a meeting on July 2nd, but July 9th >> July 9th is what they're asking for. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So So let's carry that. The signed variances assigned package for the KR application are carried without
additional notices to July 9th, 2025 at 7 PM. No further notice will be required. Okay. Okay. And now the rest of the case is a motion to approve the U preliminary
and final site plan, amended site plan, subdivision plan, D variance and C variances as described this evening as set forth in the record and the plans subject to Paul and Frank's review reports and Matt Sec's
review report which are incorporated here and by reference. the turn off uh string lights um and business lights at uh 11 p.m. or 1 hour after
um the business closes. There'll be a condition that they will have a pre-construction meeting with the township engineer which will include a construction phasing plan that would be subject to his review and approval.
Um the um the applicant will submit a there's another condition that the applicant will submit a trash and recycling plan as a condition of the approval subject to review and approval
by the township engineer. And they'll have a uh um the residential area uh will have an ebike >> charging and storage plan
that will be subject to the review and approval of the board of engineer. And all the other waiverss that were previously granted are still granted. Then generally most of the conditions of the prior approval will apply to this
approval except as explained in the U record or the diff where there are differences in the plan. Um that's all one maybe one more. No that's
all I have madam chairman. >> Um do we need a condition for a developers agreement? >> Um because there are improvements at the intersection. There's the uh improvements at the park. Uh >> oh yes, we should have a developers agreement. So it would be condition upon
approval with the township committee of a developers agreement and uh I think they're also going to there's a condition that they're going to document full compliance with the Mr. Ferreros and Mr. sector's reports regarding the
EV parking standards, but they will comply with the statewide standards. And that's all I have, Madam Chairman. >> Okay. >> Thank you. Do I hear a motion to approve the resolution?
>> I'll make that motion. Second. >> Okay, Janine. >> Roll call. >> Mr. Walter. >> I. >> Mr. Leonard. >> I. >> Mr. Readilius. >> I. >> Mr. Gabini. Hi, Mr. First. >> Hi, >> Mr. Wild. >> Hi, >> Chairwoman GHA.
>> Hi. >> Congratulations and good luck. >> Thank you very much. >> Congratulations. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you members of the board. finally attempt. >> Yeah. >> Third time is not sharp.
>> Who's the guy with the blue laser? >> He's from I think he spoke in the first probably like an operating Just one second. So since um >> they're not coming back next week. We don't have a meeting next week.
>> Okay. >> There isn't anyone else that is is ready to go at this point. >> We have a bunch, but they're not ready yet. >> Okay. Okay. No, no meeting next week. This is May June.
>> Okay. So you'll let us know >> in June what's happening. big blank open. Um, but again, I have several applications that are either
incomplete, incomplete, waiting for the review, waiting for the attorney. So, we have about four or five that are in house that are just aren't ready to go yet. So, at some point, we're going to get hit. We're going to get hit hard. um
>> in the middle of summer when we all go. >> In the middle of summer when everyone's on vacation possibly, but right now they're just not there yet. First week of July, I'm not here. So, >> oh, you can remind me of that. But right now, >> July 9th that when they come back, I
won't be here either. >> And you're Mr. Simage. >> I know. >> I'll be in Bermuda. >> Oh, they have internet. >> They don't know. It is remote. >> Okay. So, no meeting next week. I'll let you know what's going on in July as soon
as I know. >> Yeah. Okay. I would say probably the first week of July is probably out for most people. >> I would imagine July second. Most of you aren't going to be around, but I figured I would wait and see if anyone actually asked for that date and then see who was
around. Okay. >> Right now, I don't have anyone anyway. So, >> just say we'll be there with you. >> Just say no. That could be my motto. Just say no, Paul. girls night after. >> So, anything else today? No. >> So, we do have a motion
made a motion. >> You can second the motion. >> Oh, wait. What are youing? >> There's just a question. We're looking at these documents here and I'm again just trying to learn some of the some of the stuff, but this is again, especially if let's say if you're not going to be here. Is it possible for this what they
want to present to actually be submitted to us ahead of time? This was >> Oh, yeah. >> Part of our think our confusion up here is that we're always trying to look in real time as they're presenting something, but the plan like what we have is from 21 and I I'm trying to see what's different, what's this, what's
that. And we're always going around the front. >> We can tell we need all the exhibits at least 10 days before that date. >> Yeah. Then you can review it before you go, you know, and send comments in to, you know, or something like that to the board. But just this I know we always talk about that cursor moving around
game tonight. >> Good point. >> They're they weren't on their a game. >> It was it was hard. It was hard to follow and I know it was done in the past >> the computer, you know, to >> they're trying to get it. >> I would ask them,
but just help. Yeah. If you were to have a long pointer >> Uhhuh. >> and when you know when people come up the cursor it's the old fashioned way. >> If they don't bring it at least we'll have one and say here you know >> we could but you know what I noticed during that Steve which is fine but if
any of you weren't here and you were where Tom or Paul is you can't because I was watching this screen I can't see what he's pointing at. That's that's the only problem. even see what was going on on the screen >> where if we're using the mouse like I am now at least everyone is seeing the same
thing >> right but the the cursor you can't >> enlarge the mouse >> they needed to enlarge their plans but Brian is also right they submit it as an exhibit a huge packet which usually our exhibits are a couple of pages right
it's it's not this this was this was big >> we need to see it and I'm fine with viewing that online instead of printing that out, copying it and mailing it and like do I'm okay with it. Just have it available in some fashion. This is all I'm asking. >> But we can certainly like Frank said it through >> ask for the lighting plan 10 days prior
>> because it was the same sign >> that there was there sign >> when you go on to the website the town website just FYI. Yeah. I mean all the documents are on the agenda. You can get it from there. >> I post every every one of them. >> Yeah. But I don't think their exhibits are here.
>> No. Like everything they did tonight isn't on here for us. >> Absolutely correct. Even if I could follow it online all the stuff before a day or so because we usually do >> I I usually leave it up until the next meeting. >> Okay, that's fine. >> Should I be admitting somebody now at
10:00 at night? >> It was already You can't be part of the meeting next week. >> Yeah. Well, there's Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna say no to admitting someone at 10 o'clock at night. Sorry. now. Um, so yes, I will
ask for the sign plan 10 days prior so I can make sure that I mail it or email it or something to all of you guys so you can review it prior. That makes perfect sense. >> That's a great I probably should have brought my laptop special signage, but that was like off
the charts. >> Yeah, it was important. Understood. >> Okay. Yeah. Now I have a motion. Yeah, like that that other thing that you're going to have these little >> Is that how that went? >> How much you gonna charge somebody to put about little pickles on
here? >> Take care. Good night. >> Good night. Good night. >> Good night. Good night, John. I'm thinking everybody