Oh, good girl. Mr. Walter here. Mr. Orbana here. Mr. Leonard here. Mr. Redillas here. Mr. Gini here. Mr. First here. Chairwoman Gacha here. Adequate notice of this meeting of the Bedminster Township Land use board
was filed with the township clerk, sent to the Bernardsville News and the Courier News and to all subscribers and posted the Township Municipal Building, One Miller Lane, Bedminster, New Jersey on January 10th, 2025. Please stand for the pledge ali
to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. I'll open it up to the uh public if there's anyone here who would like to talk about anything that's not on the
agenda. Anybody online? Uh Janine? Uh no. I believe it is just uh Mr. Collins at this point and Mr. Roth is with the applicant. Okay. All right. Then I'll close it to the public.
Uh, we have minutes that we need to approve from August 7th. If you've had an opportunity to look at the minutes, I'll make the motion to approve the minutes. Second. All in favor? I'm going to have abstension for that.
I think everybody else was here. Yeah, you were online. I know. Li. Yeah. So, everybody else is okay. All right. Minutes are approved. Um, we had some correspondence. a letter from Frank uh Perino uh for the
extension time extension again. Um also I think everybody got an email about the state planning commission. I think they did if anybody's interested. Okay. Um we have a resolution for
varnish uh from last month's meeting. You have a chance to look at the resolution. I'll make a motion to approve. Second. Do we know whether all the debris and everything's been cleaned up? Yes. Like I said, has been. It has. They they they cleaned up within
several days. Oh, good. It was all clean. Good. Thank you. Okay. Roll call. Janine. Mr. Walter. Hi. Mr. Arbana. Hi. Mr. Leonard. Abstain. Correct. I'm sorry. Mr. Rodilius. Hi.
Mr. Gini. How do I vote if I vote? You can't vote because you were you voted negative. Okay, Mr. First, I and Chairwoman got you. Yes. Uh determination of completeness. Tesla call. Sharon, this is an application for
a number of charging stations at the capital wants to install Summers Hill Shopping Center. I wrote a letter dated uh August 22nd. There are a few items slash discrepancies uh that need to be addressed and right now the application
is incomplete. I did hear from their engineer. I think they're going to be resubmitting the relevant in the near future, but not ready to schedule yet. Okay. All right. It's recommended that the application be deemed income. Okay. But we don't vote on negative, do
we? No. Okay. All right. So, uh, we're ready for our application. Tiger claw. Good evening, Anthony. Tiger. Excuse the fact I'm not not wearing my jacket, but
from the rain jacket only here tonight uh for site plan approval to uh install two EV charging stations at the Exon gas station at the corner of Washington Valley Road 2026 and also to
legitimize a small convenience store that is contained within a much larger building that's been on the property for quite some time. Uh as part of the site improvements, uh there will be uh changes to the lighting, some of the impervious cover will be removed,
striping will be added to the parking area, and there's also some landscape landscaping that's proposed as well. We've got three witnesses. I'll try to be as quick and brief and concise as I can.
We'll try to get you in total tonight. I hope. And um so if you could save your questions and stuff till the end, we'll have everybody um your um very welcome witnesses at the end. My first uh witness is Mike Jello.
Try to hang on to those questions whatever you have. Okay. Sir, sir, this is the attorney. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you God? I do. Please state your name and address
and spell your last name. Michael Jallow. J A L L O. Our address is 1432 206, New Jersey. Thank you, Mr. Jallow. You're one of the principles of Tigerclaw, correct?
How long has Tigerclaw owned this property? We've owned it for 13 years, but we've operated for 25 leased it previously. And prior to that, who owned the Tiger Claw as well? Tire Coil Inc. was leasing from Exxon Corporate. So Exxon owned it, but then lease
dealers. Exxon decided to to divest their ownership interest in the real estate and let it be privately owned. Correct. Okay. What's Can you tell us the history of the property as you know it? As far as we've been operating, we've
been operating as a motor only. We've had the service bays used for storage and we've always had a small sales room that we've operated as well for 25 years. And and prior to this becoming a uh a gas station, what was this site used for? I
think it's been a station for about 50 years, but historically, I think it was the old Chrysler dealership. Not certain of that. That's only from customers showing me pictures of it from the 30s. Now, there's a a rather large structure that's on the property. Approximately
how many square feet is it? I'm guessing about 8,500 square feet, maybe a little more a little less. And can you speak into the microphone? I'm having I'm sorry. About 8,500 square feet. And of that space, how much of it is
utilized as the convenience store? Uh I think less than 800 ft for the convenience store. Uh it it's my understanding that no formal approvals were ever secured for the convenience store. Is that correct? Correct. Okay. What is offered for sale in the
convenience store? We are strictly, I would say, like a snack shop. What would be sold out of a vending machine, sodas, soda, uh, cigarettes, uh, you know, all packaged goods, candy bars, chips, so there's no coffee made on site. There's no food preparation on site.
We're unable to because we don't have a three- tier sink. Our sanitation is just a two restaurants. It's a very old antiquated building. And you're not seeking approval to expand to those type uses, are you? Not at all. Okay. Uh what are the hours of operation
of the of the gas station? We run um Monday through Saturday 6 to 11. At Sundays are softer hours 8 to 9. Tell me about uh employees. How many employees do you have at the site at any one time? We're a oneman show. So, there's one
person that uh will tend to pumping the gas, but also the convenience store. Correct. Uh conversations we had, you indicated to me that the only people that go into this convenience store are those who
come to purchase gas except for one commodity. Is that correct? Correct. That one commodity, cigarettes. Okay. So, other other than that, the only people that come are regular customers. Where do people now park uh to go into the convenience center?
Most of them will be at the at the islands getting fuel while they come inside. Some will park on the side of the store. Some will park in front of our garage door bays on the side there by the air machine. Yeah. Okay. Still bal the balance of the building. You said it's approximately 8,500 ft. Did you
maybe a little less, 8,500 and approximately 10% is utilized as the convenience store. What is the other 90% used for? We've been using it for storage. Sorry. Sorry. Storage, but we would like an
opportunity, you know, in the future to open the base for service. It's a service bay. We're set up as a service bay lease. And what is stored in in that space? Well, from our other stores, we have our overflow of shelving, you know, um just
pretty much um we keep our records in there. We keep a lot of extra parts for stations and just extra shelving and equipment that has expired or we may reuse. When you reference other stores specifically, what are you referring to? We have not Tiger Club, but our company
runs three other businesses and separate corporations and separate municipalities in New Jersey. And what types of businesses are these? These are convenience stores. Those would be the traditional convenience stores in uh Harland, in Howell, and in Lakewood, New Jersey. And what so this
is this structure is used for storage of goods that ultimately convenience store. Correct. And you access the balance of the building, not the convenience store. How how does the how
are the goods moving in and out of that building? We have two we have well the building has I don't I can't make sure I'm counting it right. One, two, three uh six service space. Four in the back, two in the front. We service only from the front of the store. The other four are pretty much been closed for 12 years. We
haven't opened them. You're not seeking approval to and and the right now to service automobiles, but you're not relish relinquishing that right either. Correct. Correct. I don't think I have any additional
questions. Well, let me just say this. U charging stations. What's the history behind those? Um about two years ago, we applied for the state grant. We saw an opportunity to, you know, get the monies from the state to help subsidize the installation of them. Um we got approved state. We
went through the whole process. It was actually a little bit more difficult than this process to be honest. So we, you know, going from the state engineers that we hired and gone for the application and approvals, we thought it would just be a simple process of applying to the city. We had no idea that we were in a non-compliance,
non-variance issue that we drew up and the company you were dealing with with the EV charging stations. What happened to that? Freewire Technologies, unfortunately, highly recommended by the state was went out of business about a year after we purchased. And how much money did you lose as a result of that?
Each unit is over $200,000. So about $400,000 in units that are still functional, but now once we get approval, I have to seek a new company to redo the computer or the customer processing. The charging units are
functional. I have to find a new um you know, I guess the hardware for the computers for the customer interface. Is there any uh advertising or displays associated with the PV charging station? Uh I mean free rider on their brand has
their has their name on the side of the panel but can easily be covered with just it's a sticker but the interface is really just like the tablet on the computer I mean sorry on the dispenser just like a gas dispenser for customers to put in their
credit card and process their charging. Think I have any other questions? Not okay. Uh we'll wait at the end uh and ask any questions that you might have for this witness. Okay. Sure. Thank you, Mr. Ross.
Mr. Roth, please raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you God? Yes, I did. And please state your name. Sure. Uh, Michael Roth last spelled RT
from Roth Engineering. Thank you. Uh, Mr. Roth, you testified before this award previously as a professional engineer. That is correct. I think I saw you here last month, as a matter of fact. So, that's correct. The board the board recognized and accepts Michael Roth's qualifications as a professional
engineer. And please go ahead, gentlemen. Thank you, Councilman. Mike, why don't you take us through this uh this site and tell us what exists and what's proposed here. Sure. Uh for the benefit of the board members, I'm going to share my screen to
present the plan that was submitted. Bear with me one moment. Tilt the screen. Yeah. Can we tilt the screen? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Sorry. Because I can't see. workout. Yeah.
Yeah. Thank you. That's better. Oh, great. Better white. So, the plan that's that appears on the screen is sheet 104, which is the zoning plan dated February 13, 2025,
revised through April 25th, 2025. This was part of the the submission package. Um so it's the the site plan that was um uh submitted to the township. So starting with an overview of the project and the existing conditions, the subject
property is lot one of block 73 located at 30 Washington Valley Road. The property is a corner lot with frontage on Washington Valley Road to the north and US Route 202 to the west within the township's VN Village neighborhood
um district zone. The lot contains an existing uh Exxon gas station and building used as a service station and and small sea store as described by the applicant. Um the VN zone does not permit service stations or sea stores.
The gas and service station was previously approved. However, the sea store was not previously approved which is part of the reason why we're here tonight. Uh the lot is fully conforming with respect to its area width and frontage. The existing building complies
with all setback requirements except for the front yard setback to Washington Valley Road. Uh the site contains a roadway opening from Route 202 and two openings from Washington Valley Road along with on-site driveways that surround the building. The on-site
parking is located to the south of the building and there is one handicap space directly north of the building. The site has an existing impervious coverage of 45.5% which is a pre-existing non-conforming condition as a maximum of 40% is
permitted. So that's a summary of the existing conditions. Um I will now go into the proposed conditions and also address the comments from the Boswell engineering review uh dated July 22nd 2025 within
within this testimony. Um the project is requesting approval to operate the um um convenience store which did not receive prior approval and requires a a D variance. The improvements to the property include expanding the parking to the south of
the building. So I'm just going to zoom in on our plan here to get a better view of that. So the proposed parking is is shown where my cursor is. um which is south of the building next to Route 202 and
provides for 14 spaces including four electric vehicle charging uh spaces. The parking lot is located within the front yard which is not permitted. Therefore, C variance is being requested and and it's only um
two uh three spaces. This dash line here is that 30 foot front yard setback line. So two spaces are are almost within fully within that setback. There's a small sliver of the third space. Uh so the the majority of the spaces do comply. However, a few do not, which is
a a C variance we're requesting. Uh some of the parking will be located on a gravel surface. Therefore, uh we're we're we're seeking a uh design waiver. Uh striping and curb stops will be proposed to delineate the parking
spaces. The dimensions of the EV parking uh spaces complies with the minimum size requirements including the accessible EV stall which is 11 ft wide by 18 ft deep with the 5ft buffer lane and we will also comply with the AD ADA slope uh
standards. Uh next I'm going to flip to our next exhibit. This is uh sheet C4 of the EV charging plans prepared by uh Azimuth Group last revised April 18th,
2024. We're going to focus on detail number one in the upper left corner. I'm going to zoom into that. Uh the EV charging stations will appear similar to this detail number one. Uh this is a a typical type detail. testimony from the applicant said. Um,
it will no longer be uh the company of Freewire. Uh, but this does give you a a a view of of what the uh station may look like and it will be of different branding. Sorry, what what uh piece what what exhibit are you referencing or what?
So, this is uh this wasn't part of the submission package. So, we'll we'll refer to this as A1. Oh, it's not not part of it. We were asked for this uh additional charging station detail
before live too. So uh it'll be in evidence as day one and if you can provide a paper copy an electronic copy to Janine for after tonight that would be helpful. Thanks.
Maybe you could pass it pass it here so we could see it first hand and then uh we'll give it uh all the copies. That's just Can you reference this document? I started to look for it. Could you just tell me what it is it's it's supposed to show?
Sure. Sure. Yeah. So this is um this is C4 of the electric vehicle charging plans um dated April 18th, 2024. It provides um details of the of the freewire charging station. What we've
done is we we zoomed into the uh what they call detail number one which gives a view of the freewire charging station and as explained in testimony by the applicant they're no longer using um free wire and it will be of different branding but this did does give us a um
uh generic detail of what the station will look like. There was a uh computer screen or tablet referred to by Mr. Jallo. Is that what we see in the center on the right hand side there? Correct. Yes. Um,
and there's branding on the left side, uh, the face of it, but it's like you're saying that can be covered or eliminated. Correct. Same thing with branding that is above the tablet. Correct. What is is that is that a light or what
is that up above towards the top? Let me know. Uh that's just an area light for someone to better view the uh the screen for for setting up their charging. Um so as mentioned previously, uh the charging station will not contain any
any ads uh or signage other than for the charger. Um service for the charging station will come off the nearby pole and the applicant will obtain the required permitting which may include the need for a uh connection box for the charging station. Believe Mr. Brower indicated that it has
to be underground. So, we recognize that. Yes. Yes. And we'll comply with that comment. Uh, next, the project proposes new pole mounted lighting for the new parking area. Uh, we have another uh exhibit I'll refer to as A2.
Yeah, might as well just let everyone Thank you. So uh again this was a request from the Boswell engineering review to provide a detail of of the light that would match the um requirement that was uh
requested. Um so we're going to refer to this as A2. This is the detail for the posttop lantern light. Uh, three pole lights with a posttop lantern fixture are proposed at a height of 16 ft with a light temperature of 3,000 Kelvin, which
complies with the township's um standards. The lights will be serviced underground from the building and the hours of operation of the EV stalls and lighting will comply with the township ordinance. Uh, and next we have our no more than 16 ft high. Correct. Yes.
And with that, you're still complying with the lighting requirements, the ordinance. Yes, that's correct. Thank you. Uh, next our ex, uh, we have another exhibit we'll refer to as A3. This would be known as the impervious
sketch. Is that what we're correct? We'll refer to it as the impervious coverage sketch dated July 24th, 2025. Uh there was a a request in the Boswell engineering review to try to um um reduce any impervious areas on the site.
So what this plan shows is the existing impervious areas in orange will be uh will be taken off resulting in in an approximate 2,000 square foot reduction in coverage from existing condition to bring the impervious coverage clo closer
to the um um conformance where the proposed number is going to be now approximately 42% where a maximum 40% is permitted. Uh again, it's still technically a variance, but we're improving a pre-existing non-conforming condition as
the current impervious coverage is 45.5%. Um I believe that's addressed all the all the Boswell engineering review comments. I I had a couple of questions regard indicates that part of the parking
existing and proposed is in a gravel area. that we need to sign waiver. Is that a comment in fact accurate? That's correct. And you also raises a question regarding striping on the gravel lot. How is that going to be addressed?
So um we're going to install and as coordinated uh with Boswell um and I' like to thank Paul for coordinating with me prior to the meeting to review these comments. Uh we're going to agree to do curb stops to um um delineate the
parking spaces. Mr. Fero, I I noticed there was established anything. [Music] You would know. Yeah. Okay. I think you do the incorporation. Are
there are there any other comments in your report or otherwise that you would like to chair? I think we're going to wrap everything up together unless you want to do engineering issues now. I did have a couple things. Okay. You want me to go Paul? Why don't you go?
Okay. Um relative to the the parking and the design waiver, I think you probably have to pave the accessible stall. Correct. That'll have to be paid. Yes. Um, the
electrical box that's required for this is going to be larger than those two charging stations together. You have you I know you're not an electrical engineer, but have you looked at what that's going to be and how much space it's going to take up? Yes, that's a great question. I believe
our our applicant did investigate that as part of the uh that was with the PXT engineering plant. We the issue with this state application engineers that were originally hired was from PXT technologies. I don't have it
in front of me but I do can provide. Um their plants were not double the size if I'm not mistaken. It's about 6 ft long and about 4 ft wide. Almost the size of a large large generator. Elsewhere on the site it would be
located. That's up to them conferring with JCPNL engineers. It could it needs to be adjacent to the charging stations and something to do with the transformers. I'm not an expert on. So depending on where JCPL puts their transformer that
has to be installed onto their line then they can they were thinking and I'm pointing on your on Mike's computer about 6 ft behind where the charging units they wanted to draw out pad there but it's in their plans. In any event, it's not going to impede uh traffic circulation getting to put on those
charging stations or the parking stalls. Correct. No, because it would be behind the charging stations. And given its likely location, you would follow compromise sight distance coming in out of sight. I I don't I don't see how. I mean, it's
going to be behind the tree. The tree line would cover where the box would go, probably the existing tree line. I I I'm I'm looking at your plan. I see what you're saying and it calls out for the meter and disconnects on opposed H frame, right? That's not what I'm talking about.
Okay. I apologize. I'm talking I I would be shocked if there were a large ground mounted transformer that would be required to be installed is and it's not part of these plans. So the family member from the JCPNL
engineer from PXT said it would be about a mile away from the site. Wouldn't be on our site because they had they have some I don't know the issue with uh their wiring or their trans their uh voltage on the line that comes down the street, but they would have to add their
transformer down the road, I think. Okay. I I I know I sound like I'm crazy, but I drive an EV. I go to these stations often and there's always an enormous box by these high speed charge. They're just there. They're not
required. Um my and I'm raising it because if you need it, it's going to be in a front yard and you're not asking for the variance for that time. So, we have to somehow deal with it. And if I I I would be shocked if they could put a transformer a mile down the road and
service this. I can tell you that the Tesla application that's coming in on the other side of Washington Valley Road, yes, they have a lot more chargers, but their transformer electrical equipment is enormous. We just did a site plan for two of these
chargers, and the box was bigger than that and tall. With the plans that I saw, the box the box would be similar to this table. Taller again, six feet high. About six feet wide and sorry, about six feet
long, six feet high at most and 4 ft wide is the plan size. Yeah, that's probably about the size it would be. My question is where is that going to be? So Paul in your opinion given the size of the site when it looks there and it's likely the need for it likely proximity
to the charging stations can it be installed and not violate a setback requirement? No. So and we would uh seek barance relief for that installation.
We don't know exactly where it's going to be. We were at the mercy of Janel. What we would suggest respectfully is that we coordinate those efforts with Mr. Ferrarero and come up with a mutually agreeable location that doesn't
compromise distance. I don't think it's going to be any closer to the roads than the charging stations themselves. But with that in mind, we'd like to be able to move with this. What are your thoughts, Paul? What do you think?
Well, I'm not sure that it won't be closer. It may be closer. That's what it sounds like. That's the way these come in. I'm not the only EV driver in the room and I know there's board members that are have probably stopped at these things and they've seen these boxes.
It's going to be probably behind trucks. And so they they do take up some volume space and they they're it's not a dimminimous element of the project. In your opinion, is the site large
enough and is there enough area to accommodate for this? And and just skipping ahead to Frank Vanish's memo, there's room on the property where the entire setup could be in a conforming location behind the
building. Understood. Don't know how uh stracted it will be in terms of bringing in customers, but that's a whole another story. Last time we dressed up. Are you comfortable
leading this to is the board and are you comfortable with leaving this to your discretion to locate this transformer? Assuming it's a big assumption, but assuming the charging stations are located where we are proposing to do so.
If it's if is the board's comfort level, not if I may, I mean I why I propose when we're discussing the plans with the older engineers, we were concerned about line of sight for customer service. So if a customer was to come to the charging station and they're having
difficulty, if they're if it's behind the building, we have no clue. I mean, we could put cameras, but our attendants aren't going to monitor that. But if it's on the side and the attendant can be from line of sight to the gas islands, he can walk over and help someone if they have a question about the charging. Maybe they're having
difficulty with the credit card charge or putting the unit into their vehicle. And I understand that and it makes sense for the location of the charging. Yeah. So, that was our logic in putting in and and that makes sense. But I think the question that I was asked was can
you put the these transformer in a conforming location and I I don't know if you can with the chargers where they are can understand some logic relative to the location of where you're putting these because yeah I've run into the case where they just
I I would suggest respectfully if board is comfortable with the location of charging stations that you delegate to Mr. Ferraro, the decision to locate this uh transformer in the best possible location is
considered and if there is if it turns out that we need variance relief for that to grab that part of this application. I'm not thrilled with that whole concept. I'm not either. I mean that decision is the board's
decision and we trust Mr. fair 100% but it's not his decision. It's the board's decision. It's your dec. It's your job to bring it to us. I also think historically we've had issues with JCPNL dropping things in places we weren't wild about. Certainly
neighboring towns have had issues with JCPNL dropping and utility companies dropping big boxes in places that we Yes. That's much more effect. Yeah. Among other things. Exactly.
Can I suggest this by if we can make some decision of where it must be from an electrical design stand that it does not require variance relief we both because of where
it's located I would ask the board to allow us to move fall over that without the need to with the term permanent sub if however where they're telling us it must be violates a setback requirement, then we'll come at them. Does that sound
sound like a fair proposal? I believe it does. Um, and let me weigh in on why I think that is also a fair proposal. Yeah. Were it not for the requirement for the variances, you would not be seeing this application at the board under the under the EV charging.
So if they're putting an element of that in a informing location, I would think that following the same logic that that would be okay, right? But it's this the charting stations that they do need the relief for. Where would it conforming location be?
It would be in the back of the building, right? Almost just push them down. Show us where the setback lines are. Sure. So that this um this 30 foot front yard set back where my cursor is running is the setback line. So the charger the
proposed char station is proposed just outside of it to comply. Um the applicant has indicated to me that their intention is to do the transformer just south of it and as we mentioned just
behind it. You mean just behind the chargers? Correct. Yeah. That would be you know at least I don't know that again I won't I don't know about the technical needs of how far it has to be and how close it has to be but you know original plan they saw it as far as 10 15 ft of behind
but to the side to the other side where's the set line if you will behind you showed us along the road but what about behind it where it's yeah it's this dash line here where my cursor is running so there there's
there's an area where it it it it could comply to to where you're pointing there in this. So it would be no closer to the road than the charging stations. Correct. Or it could I mean it would be comply with the 30oot setback. The
charging station's 32.6. Okay. I'd be right about that. I have a conceptually with the transformer I don't have a problem
and I understand the desire for customer service and the ability for people to see but these charging stations are frequently in the middle of parking lots with no one around and and so I think when you have an EV car you figure it out or you find a different charging
station. Um, I'm having a problem with all of the space on the site putting those two parking spaces in the setback. Like, is there some reason it doesn't all just get
pushed down 15 ft, 20 ft, whatever it is outside the setback? I don't I don't know if I understand the question. Yes. I mean the the existing pavements line where parking occurs today is in this area. Although we're requesting
um relief for that. It's it's a it's a condition that's been there where there's there's always been you know this has always been a a parking area. So you're not changing that the existing curve line or parking spaces
uh in this location. Correct. But but to her point, you have all this room. You got tons of room. So, you know, to answer her question, answer me other than it's existing like that now.
In other words, why don't you shift it to to do conforming whether there's a parking space there now or not? That's her question that I think. Yeah, actually have a a
attacking it from a different Do you h is there currently a parking requirement for this site? Like are some of these parking spaces required? The problem is it's a it's a gas station. It's not a permitted use. So there's no parking stes.
Doesn't the convenience center require parking for the use? We we do have information on the required parking. So when you look at the proposed use in terms of uh the service station, the square footage of the um convenience
store, there's a a total requirement of 12 spaces and we're proposing uh 16 spaces. So we do comply with the required number of apartments on the chart on this. Mhm. But to answer your question regarding the location,
it's not that I uh lack the ability to answer a question with a good answer, but I don't have a good answer from you. I think we can and we should move that that whole array of parking to comply with setbacks. There's enough room to do
so. I can't I really can't sit here or stand here in good conscience to say there are You got wave number legitimate reasons why we should be aware removing some impervious as it is some some we can do so in that area as well
just shift everything to the north but this north is this way we can shift everything I guess east shift everything out of the center maybe about two spaces over thereabouts.
Yeah. And and it may just be based upon test mode with the convenience store. Yes, you've got an ordinance requirement for parking. Frankly, we don't think you need you need any parking for the
convenience store because people that use the convenience store except for the people that buy cigarettes, they're parked at pumps getting fuel all over parked at the EV charging stations. we we could eliminate some of that
parking, move it up out of the uh setback area and I think meet the needs of the site and reduce impervious and it's just a better fix better use of the property. But that's to that that that's
up to you. We would love to reduce parking. We don't think it's necessary. Well, then I think you should I I have sort of a different question. How long does it take to uh charge a car? How how long you anticipate that it
takes to charge? So, these are we haven't used them, so I can't confirm for sure, but we bought supercharging or high voltage charging stations. It it claims it can charge two cars because it has a built-in battery within the
charging 40 minutes for 80% charge of like an average Tesla. So So what is it you anticipate these people doing during the 80 minutes of the spot? 40 minutes. Good, good question. And that's probably what started my whole problem. I updated
our convenience store, which I always thought was just a sales room to make room for a waiting area. I'm going to add maybe two chairs and a table that if you're waiting in your car and it's inclement weather, it's cold or it's hot that you come in the sales room and sit down and wait for your car to be
charged. So, we're looking to just expand the sales room just to add seating or customer waiting area if you want to call it that. But in conjunction with that, not to do anything with the with blessing, but with the uh extent of
the uh convenience store, you're not going to expand the type of communities. No desire. We've been operating for 25 years and we haven't changed the items that we sold in 25 years. For example, we haven't had coffee or any food service or any sort of breakfast
service. We haven't had a lottery machine seating area for a waiting area. Yeah. As I mean because we thought, okay, if it's cold and someone has children or elderly that they can come in and get out of the weather and just sit down in rocks in
our sales run and go back on. I'm sorry. Restroom. Where would they go to the bathroom? We only have one and it's outdoor. There's a close that you charging. It's on the south west corner. I guess it would be on the building. This out house. It's a little It's a little jet that comes out off the side
of the building. We have one public restroom. And can they charge uh the car when your operation is closed? No, because we're power turn off. No power. No power. Are we asking questions now? We all
Yeah, we might as well. I mean, obviously we've gotten into this routine. So, go ahead, Jim, if you have questions. It's going to be power all the time. You can't turn them off. There's no way you're going to be able to just turn off transform. But you can shut down the
the access to it. Yeah. And I don't know what the ordinance is for charging stations. I I don't see the problem people charging. And I'm sure depending on what happens with Tesla, they're going to be o they're going to probably ask to be open 24/7 as well. I don't know how that's going to fly, but um
just I mean people when you're in your when you're charging charger, you start a lot of you just sit in your car. You don't go to a waiting somewhere unless you're going to go get coffee or something. if anybody is you'll run across the street, but that's not really necessary. Um
I I wish there was a char waiting room where I charged yesterday. I could have used the Wi-Fi. You got to get access. Um all right, that's that's why.
Anyone else? Right now I have a question. Questions for Paul. Um Paul, how many permitted uses are we dealing with here? Is the charging station is separate from the gas station and the convenience store and then they have storage
facility. So are we any conflict with permitted uses? The EV charging law says these are permitted uses at any gas station. It's not our ordinance that prescribes that. So we have two two uses basically the g the gas station and then the
Well, you have three uses. Yeah. One of which is clearly permitted under the EV law. Okay. The gas station is clearly not permitted. The convenience store is a retail use which is a peritt approved be done with the gas station. Right.
Okay. You want to continue? Please. Yes. Do you have any questions for skills? This is Madison attorney. Oh, I'm looking at the board. Uh,
good evening, sir. Please raise your right hand. Yes. Do you swear affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So, help you God. I do. Please state your name and address and spell your last name.
Matthew Flynn. F L Y N. Mr. Flynn, uh, what was your occupation and your trained professional? Sure. I have my uh, professional planners license in the state of New Jersey as well as my AICP license, which is the national lensure for planners,
education for Ruckers, master's degree in planning and public policy. I have testified before this board a few years ago and over a 100 boards across the state. Yes. The board recognized and accepts Matthew Flynn's qualifications as a professional planner. Uh please go ahead
gentlemen. And um you know hearing the testimony of the principle of the owner, I think you better address the issue of whether storage
for Tiger Claw for other sites is a use variance. And and if so, if not, why not? And if so, what what are the ways to
control it to make sure it's not storage for others? So, sure. I didn't I learned that in the testimony of Mr. Jallow, I think. Yes. And uh I'll be sure to address
that. So, just do we have a connection issue or is that just on this computer? I think you're good. Okay. No, he No, he's there. He's just pausing. Um, all right. Well, just to get started, I think I'll get Yeah, I'll do
that in a second. Um, as was noted by the engineer, I just want to make sure it's crystal clear with everyone this evening. We are not proposing any changes to the building massing as it exists today. So here we have a lawfully existing building. This is not an
application requesting uh setback variances, height variances, F relief related to the building itself or as was testified to previously even to the parking at this point we have agreed to eliminate that variance as well. Um
really the primary question here tonight is a use issue. Uh it relates to the proposed sea store in a zone that actually permits several uses including retail uh restaurants, service uses, offices, and there's also a specific
provision in that zone that allows for mixed uses of any of those permitted uses. So this is not a zone that would restrict uh one principal use uh per watt in this zone. Um, importantly, we're not necessarily expanding the gas
station use per se. We're not adding any fuel pumps. Um, and I I mentioned that just because that is a existing non-permitted use here. As was testified to, we are talking about an 850 square ft retail uh
space on a property that is actually substantially oversized in the context of zoning. Substantially underdeveloped in the context of zoning. Um in other words, this is a zone that anticipates much more building massing and development intensity than what we're
looking to um continue this evening. Um really I think at the heart of this application is we have an applicant that wants to provide a a service to his existing customers better serving his existing customers and making use of an existing space that's there today. It
was used uh for other uses in the past and here we're looking to reactivate an existing space inside the building again to serve our customer base. Um, just to orient the board here, we are at corner property and I guess uh is this exhibit
A4 at this point, Tony? Yes. Yes, A4. Yeah, exhibit A4 is I believe it's a threepage exhibit consisting of some drone photographs taken by my office on August 7th, 2025.
Yeah. And I do have some copies for we don't have this. Thank you. Down if you want. Sure. So again, uh while that's getting distributed there, this these are drone
photographs taken by my office uh in August of this year, accurately depicting the current condition of the subject property and really I think to orient the board and and help paint the picture of of what we're doing here this evening. Here we are looking at a corner
property with frontage on both Washington Valley Road and then routes 202 206. We're looking at a lot area like I said substantially oversized per zoning. We're at about 1.5 acres whereas.5 acres is the minimum in the
zone. So this is something that's over three times that zoning minimum. Again, a very large property. Um and I'll get to some of the bulk requirements in a moment. As was testified, this is the VN zone. It's a highly permissive zone and I listed some of those uses. Um here, if
we look on sheet one, we can see the existing structure. Again, we're not adding any building mass. We're simply looking to retrofit and utilize existing space inside the building. Um I'll I'll slide through some of these images here. Uh sheet one obviously
shows the the property from routes 2026. To the left across Washington Valley Road, we do have a large parking lot. Um if we were to slide to sheet two, if I can get there. Um here we now have that
parking lot across Washington Valley Road on the right. Um here just giving a view of the rear of the structure. Um, and then really I think sheet three gives the board nice perspective as to
what's going on here. We do have over 1,000 ft of uh frontage along routes 2020 206, not on our property, but where we don't have any buildings that
directly front the street along uh 2026. Similarly, along Washington Valley, we have just about 100 I'm sorry, 1,000 ft of farms along Washington Valley where there are no buildings. Similarly, up against the street. So, this is sort of
an isolated location on this block. You have a lot of light air, open space, lots of trees, really built-in buffering related to that multif family complex um in in the center of the block there. Um, so I bring that up to say that this is
not even if we do have the transformer, the EV charging stations, etc. Additional building mass here is not going to result in a crammed in effect where we have buildings on each side. Here is a lot of space uh in either direction where we don't have an
adjacent building uh to worry about uh impacts in that regard. kind of so here as was testified we are proposing a uh to essentially legalize an existing uh non-conforming
convenience store. So that brings us to a D1 use variance. Uh for that we look to the Medici test. The enhanced burden of proof for a use variance is known as the site suitability standard. It's a sightsp specific test. It's not general
to all uses throughout the zone. it's relative to a particular property. The test directs us to look at what are the factors that this property might have an impact on. What are the unique characteristics of this particular property as well as this the immediate
area. Uh as I said, this is a somewhat isolated property. We really don't have any immediate neighbors um or or neighbors that would have a substantial visual impact from the street. So, this does stand out as being really the only
building along either 2026 um in the immediate area. I would say that we should and can look at the fact that we are looking at a historic use of the property as a gas
station posing a use that is complimentary to that lawfully existing use. I would say that just as gas stations serve the motoring public, this is something that is necessarily uh accessory to that use, providing a
graband go option for customers of that um of that gas station. Uh I would note also that this is something that is at the edge of the VN zone. It's at the southern end of the VN zone. We're not right smack dab in the middle
of the zone where we would be surrounded by other exclusively permitted uses here. We're right at the edge and we don't really have any immediate neighbors that we would be worried about having an impact on. Um, notably, again, this is a prominent intersection. So, to
the extent that this is a use that's going to serve the motoring public, um, this is at the location that that would be especially convenient. So that I think satisfies the site suitability standard. Uh moving on to the positive criteria, we look to the
municipal land use law, the benefits of the application. Um I think we can look to purpose A, which is promotion of the general welfare. here. Again, this is something that's going to add the uh add to the general convenience of this location for the
motoring public. Taking advantage of a a prime location to provide retail and of course reducing impervious coverage. Um, and I think pulling the parking away from the road is is also a benefit that came out of uh this hearing this evening. Purpose G is variety of uses in
appropriate locations. I think I can fall back on the site suitability testimony, but again, this is something that's complimentary to an existing use. If this were proposed on another property that maybe didn't have a gas station on it already, I think my plan
and conclusion would be uh totally different. But in this case, we are looking at a unique property that's already developed. Purpose I, desirable visual environment. Here, like I keep saying, we're not proposing any additional building mass. And even though we are proposing the charging
stations, again, this is a site that can accommodate that that increased mass so to speak due to its oversized nature um and immediate surroundings. Purpose M, efficient use of land. This is something that's substantially compliant from a bulk perspective, which
I think leads into the negative criteria. Um again, this is a highly permissive zone. Any combination of permitted uses would be allowed here. And I think convenience store is not a substantial departure from what you could get here as of right. Again,
retail, service, office, etc. In terms of zone conformance, again, we have a lot that's over three times the lot area requirement. Um, and with that, we meet the front setback to route 20220 206. We meet the side setback
substantially at almost seven times. The F is about half of what would be permitted here. Um would comply with parking and building height, lot frontage, lot width, etc. Um really I think all of that goes to to show you that the property is not going to stand
out as being overdeveloped um by any means. Um like I mentioned, we are reducing the impervious coverage from 455 to 449% whereas 40% is permitted. Um, and as was
testified, this is going to be limited in terms of the retail that we we are providing here. No food preparation, no coffee. Um, and that I think would would be something that we would not be able to say if we were talking about a permitted use such as retail, which
would be allowed to sell these these items. I'm not sure if uh I I think they were just making noise. I'm debating muting them. Okay. Uh yeah, so just to wrap up, I
think we eliminated the 1C variance that we were seeking this evening, which was the parking setback. We've agreed to pull that out of the front setback. So this is compliant in terms of all bulk requirements. From the planning end, we
are really just looking at the use. And to that end, I think I put in substantial testimony regarding the suitability of this particular site. Again, we're not talking about the appropriateness of the use in general. We're talking about its appropriateness in relation to this specific property,
and I think there's a lot of unique conditions here that lend itself to the use that we're speaking of this evening. That may be a good segue into the question raised by the board's attorney, Mr. Collins, regarding the use of the bounds of this building that's been on
the problem for many years for storage. Uh, Mr. Collins raised question of whether we need use variance relief and if not why not what's what's your opinion on? Sure. So if we look at some of the permitted uses in the zone uh grocery
stores, meat markets, delies, uh banks, offices, um these are all uses that will necessarily have a storage component to them. The principle of use here is not storage. It's not a warehouse. It's not a storage building. this is something
that is is just necessary an accessory to the permitted use on the property. Um by no means would I classify this building as a storageoriented uh building. So I would say that use variance would would not be required for that
if board concludes otherwise because the goods that are stored there not only are goods that are sold in this store but are sold in other stores and just given the size of that storage area in
relation to the convenience store if use variance relief is necessary. What can you tell us about uh the appropriateness of use variance for that particular use? And what limits or restrictions would you recommend
imposing so this doesn't turn into a storage facility that's utilized by third parties? Yeah, I think uh in terms of conditions, I would say no outdoor storage. What council just mentioned about no storage
for third party um entities. Um I think if if the use variance was found to be necessary for this application. I would say that again the site suitability standard would be met. I don't think I need to uh go through it extensively. But here relying on my testimony this is
an existing building that has a substantial amount of unused space. If it wasn't used for storage conceivably the applicant would be looking to use it for something. But the nice thing about this is that despite the fact that the board may find that use variance is
appropriate here, it doesn't result in the expansion of the building per se. It's again utilizing existing space. It's passive use as opposed to something other than being very passive. Correct. Do you see any negative uh as far as the
negative criteria, do you see uh that can you address that in context of the storage facility? Sure. Um I think in terms of the negative criteria, so no substantial detriment to the to the zone or to the
public. Um in terms of public impacts, this is not something that's going to have a substantial visual impact on the streetscape. Um, again, no additional building mass. In terms of impacts to the zone, I said it a couple times now. This is a highly permissive zone where
storage would be akin or a certain element or uh a certain amount of storage would be necessary for a whole host of of many of these uses. In the grand scheme of things, with a lot of this size and the permitted uses that we have here, uh you could get a much more
intense use of this property here. As council said, we're talking about a passive use in relation to what you could get here as of right when we will get the size uh and the permitted uses. It's really uh not going to have a substantial det. Thank you.
Let me just ask how how much space there is not being utilized that could be used for storage? I mean, is it a substantial amount? Do you know? It's like 7,500 square feet. It's not is not 8,000 square ft
according to this. It's what 52 5,300 according to this not the 8,000 that Michael talked about. So So when you take away 800 from the store, you're more like, you know, 4,300. Mhm.
So the question again, I'm sorry. The question again, I'm sorry. you know how much space wasn't being utilized that could be used for what with storage you know so if you only have a small amount for the convenience center itself what's left so that's what I'm asking
you would say 3/4 of the build 3/4 of the building is uh old service we have dispersed uh some old equipment in there and we store maybe pallets of water when we order water for the stores and and we just store a pal and we distribute from
that location to the other sites We don't have uh I mean we don't have we have a lot of old equipment but it's taking maybe a third of the 4500 ft left. What type of equipment are you referring to? Old old shelving, old refrigerator
equipment. Uh we have one new we stored now because of the issues of one new dispenser for our stations. We had an issue where our dispenser was lost and it took us 6 months to replace. So we purchased a dispenser and we just store it there. We have the two charging units that we purchase there in the base being
stored there. Um we will have at random like a pallet of antifreeze, a pallet of oil and a pallet of maybe water being stored there to distribute to the other sites when we buy both. But there isn't there isn't like racking set up with you know
pallets and no I mean there's no retailing out of the storage. It's just for our you personal use to pay you know store are overstock other stores and it's all going to your other sites immediate affiliates
sorry your affiliate companies affiliate yes median stores that Mr. Gel has an unread interest. Yes. Anybody else have any questions for any of the um witnesses?
I have a question about the the gravel east of the the building along Washington Valley. That's like a no man's land over there. And you when you drive into that gravel area, it seems like there's ruts and it just
seems messy. Is there any way to tidy it up or clean it up? I mean, I don't know the the best way to do it, but it just seems it just seems messy for, you know,
it's a mess. It is. And there's no direction really about which way to go or I'm just you know looking for ideas really. Sure. Yeah. And and that's a great question. We appreciate it. Um as described in the testimony um this
was actually a comment in the Basil engineering review letter to reduce kind of the um impervious that expands beyond the area that that that we we don't need. So, I flipped back to uh A3, which
is the sketch that shows in orange the impervious we're removing. Um, in conversations with the with the applicant, um, we did want to maintain some impervious for the potential of um, restarting the service bay business in
the future. Uh, that's right. We we've dimensioned out 80 feet. Let me zoom in a little bit here. So again, the orange is what we're removing. So this new wall orange line is going to be the edge of pavement line. Um
uh but we did want to maintain some impervious uh in case that service bay business was ever restarted where there's room to circulate traffic um out of this area. But certainly we can to to the extent
there are ruts areas that are not paved and we're like that can be improved added to and rolled and just made better. Maybe just some new gravel and level out and because it it is actually
when you come out of the when you get on the side of the building it does start to look like you know where are we? It's like everything's all over the place in terms of um not looking like a finished piece of commercial property. It doesn't
look finished. No, it's an eyesore on that in that whole intersection. It's an eyesore. Absolutely. Uh is Frank online? He is. Yeah. Frank, do you have anything further? Uh, I think that question about
the no man's land was one that was raised in my report. I'm glad to see it was talked about. I appreciate what we just saw on the screen with regard to cutting that down some, but it still strikes me that an 80 foot width in an area where the standard two-way driveway
would be 24 ft. I'm not sure what kind of traffic it invites and whether the traffic that might it seems c certainly like if a truck was trying to find a place to pull over for a while that would be a pretty logical spot. So I'm trying to understand if there's
anything we can do to minimize in inappropriate movements there. And my other question really related to the frequency of deliveries to and deliveries from this site to other sites related to that storage aspect of the
use types of vehicles, numbers of trips, that sort of stuff. Let's see if we can deal with the second question first, Mr. J. How frequently do you are deliveries brought in or things brought out so they can be exposed? Um,
and what's the timing of it? When do they deliver? It's very easy. I mean, it's maybe twice a week or three times a week. Um, we will deliver, let's say, a pallet of oil maybe once a month at most. It's not like excessive volume. But once it's delivered once a month, let's say it to
be a pallet of water or pallet of antifreeze or oil. It's put in the base on a pallet and as I visit the site on my every other day, visit a few times a week, I will take four cases into my car myself and transfer it to the next store
or 10 cases, whatever the need requires. But I'm doing all the moving personally myself between the stores. And when does this happen? early in the morning or just you know timing wise delivery uh usually would be 9 to5 I I can't specify for the delivery for for
my schedule usually afternoon I start in the morning in the south I'm not at the site till about 10:00 I'm there for about 3 hours and then I'll leave so between noon and 3 let's address the perhaps more thoring
question of reducing uh some of the I think the concern here is to preserve the right to not only access that area but to provide an area for future parking if uh those service bays are
given new life and parks for service there again we don't want to relinquish that right we don't want to paint ourselves in little corner where now we don't have enough space to put the cars outside if necessary waiting to get service so that's the the balance that
we're we're trying to shred here. We can appreciate that. And given the nature of the building that's already there, I can understand that that's not an unreasonable thing to aspire to. I guess I'm sort of thinking if you've reactivated those bays and needed room
to pull cars out of the bays and park them opposite the bays. I'm still having a little trouble understanding why it would take 80 ft. And I'm not saying it wouldn't take 650 or 60 feet at least, but it just seems like it's just more than it absolutely has to be.
And if I'm wrong, I mean, one of the things that wasn't completely addressed was why and and I know that the testimony offered by Mr. Flynn addressed the criteria that would enable the board to grant the variances. So, I'm not
saying he didn't do that, but when the board members said, "There's a place on the lot where a conforming location could be selected. Why are we not using that?" In the same breath to have a conversation about all this other land on the lot that's kind of with these
wide open spaces, I'm just having a hard time in my own mind leaving this situation when we're done with it with these issues resolved the way they look like they're going to be resolved. And I don't think this is a bad use for the property. I actually think it's
certainly going to be needed in the future and the legislature has determined that it's appropriate to permit these here. So, we're not fighting over whether that's the right use. I think it's much more I'm not saying we're fighting at all, but I think it's much more about this opportunity and we haven't had many over
the last 25 years while the applicant is before us to secure some control over the way the site's being used and managed and how it appears to the public. And I've probably said more than enough about that, but thank you. Now, now Frank, if you lay in the back
of a building out, you know, a typical double stacked parking row, it's two 18 ft stalls on a 24T aisle, which gives you 60 ft versus the 80. Yeah, that was about what I was guessing, Paul. I knew you'd have the
math for us, but it just seemed like an extra 20 ft of that tenant, you know, and when there's no active use of that space, then it's 60 ft of inactivated unlandscaped area on the lot.
Frankly, it sounds reasonable. Well, but wait, two, so a double stacked parking if you if you have a two-way aisle is 24 ft wide, right? and 18 foot stalls on either side at 60 ft. In this case, you would need that first
18 ft is to get square into the building to enter the bay. Yep. 24T aisle to move both ways and then parking vehicles waiting to be serviced on the other side. That's where I came up with the 60 ft. I thought you were putting double stack
working in the middle of how is that impacted if we're being asked to potentially dramatically relocate the EV charging stations. What complications does that create? Well, I don't think anybody's asking you
to dramatically relocate the EV charging stations at this point. Okay, then perhaps I missed things, but unless I'm reading the board wrong. No, it's only the transformer. It's a transformer and that just can't be closer to the room. Understood. Okay. I I didn't know if
there was suggestion. I thought there may have been a suggestion that we put them behind the building, but that and and there was some discussion by the applicant on why they are cited where they are. And there's there's logic to that. Okay.
If I could just offer if if the aspect that you see coming down Washington Valley Road didn't have a 100 foot wide curb cut and had some line of landscaping and controlled access into the site over there. I think the appearance from offsite would be so
dramatically changed that maybe having a lot of space back here wouldn't be the same thing. It's just the wide open feeling of looking into something that doesn't appear at all kind of prepared for public view. I have the back to confir with my client
and diagnosis. Sure. Yeah. Okay. Just return. You want to take five minutes? Sure. Take a break. Thank you. Sorry. Thank you for the opportunity. You've heard of our professionals and client.
Okay. I think we've come up with uh the following proposal. We can reduce the amount of impurities cover the gravel that is in the area that Mr. Banish uh spoke to. It's approximately 80 ft wide. We can reduce that to 60 ft. It will get
tapered out uh at Washington. I think it's Washington Valley Road so that the curb cut does not change and we don't find ourselves in the crosshairs of the county trying to get revised approvals there. Uh we'll add additional landscaping. We'd ask that that that
additional landscaping be subject to review and approval of your engineer and your planner. We'll move the parking uh back out of the setback. we'll just shift everything out and and
and also the transformer would have to be located out of any setback. So we don't need any variance really associated with that. I think based upon the exchange those are very positive
improvements. It will dress up this site. it it'll just it'll just function better, look better, and bring it into the 21st century. And I think with that, the board's doing a good job of periodically
looking at these sites and bringing them closer to compliance and to what your present standards are. I forgot to mention one thing to the extent that any of your ravel and I haven't been there, so I can't say that. And maybe when you say there's ruts and it's just repair
certainly that needs to get cleaned up fixed. Yeah, we'd like to see it a little tidier and um you know I mean it's not the most beautiful building either. I mean we'd like to see just you know to have some improvement to it. Thought about dressing up the building
itself a little bit too. Is there any thought with that? It's an old paintless foot. I don't know if that's weird. I mean, how would you recommend tidying up the old building? It's I mean, I know it's an eyesore. It is.
We can offer fresh paint. Yes. I mean, but I mean I right now I would take the Lord's review or whatever recommendations. I think paint would definitely be a good start. You know, I think just I
definitely anything you can do to dress it up a little bit. I think make it look improvement. Yeah, it's I mean it's the entrance to our community basically and freshen it up. Y I could add Madam Chair, one of the
things that could become a confusing issue later that maybe we can clarify now. It's not uncommon for those large electrical boxes to end up beingcoming some kind of art space. you know, whether they're painted on or they have
these plastic uh, you know, design things that can be placed on them, but they can if they're going to stick out anyway. If they stick out in an artistic way, people seem to find them a lot less objectionable. But what we've seen in the past is sometimes somebody wants to do that and the township says, "Well,
that's a sign because you're now putting a message on on the side of this whatever size box it is." I I think we could clarify the fact that we would not consider that to be a sign if they I'm not telling them they have to do that, but if they were persuaded to do that or
if it was something that caught on in this town like it has in some other towns, they should be able to know that that that probably is not going to be a problem where they'd have to come back to the board. Well, that's a great idea and if you can refer us to the towns where you've seen
this Frank, it would be appreciated so we can look and maybe seek out the people who have Bridgewater has it would need HBC blessing because you're in the historic district. The historic preservation commission would have to look at whatever you're
going to do. Okay. Gas station, so it should be okay. Yeah. As far as the uh the storage area, uh we would certainly stipulate that it uh can only be used for storage by any uh businesses in which
J has an ownership interest limited to the convenience stores that he has an ownership interest in. We're not looking to use this as storage for third parties limited to that. Yeah. no rent be offered uh rent as rental space as
storage space for anyone else for any other groups. I have a a question. My recollection is you don't post the price of your gas so you can see it. Am I wrong? It's only on the pops the
as far as police exon the township restricted the signage restricted them from ID sign restricted exon not us that was before us and we just launched that and we just continued to operate without price sign if you notice that sign we're
not objecting to that we just was against it but that's Yeah, that's okay. That's an amended site point in additional variances for standing side except I never know what the price is when I drive by. Of course, Tim's shaking his head because he only uses
electricity. I also don't want a big sign out there. Carol, I have a questions. Go ahead. So, um I I hate to put a wrench into everything here, but I'm just gonna I've got to put this out there for the board
and everyone. Um, I've been at this gas station many times and the traffic circulation here is is somewhat hazardous because you have on the south side entrance you have people coming and going uh is a sharp hill that
goes down and then there's no direction as to which some people come in from the from the north side, some people come in from the south side and it gets a little wacky. I think it's a really good idea that we're moving those those two EV
stations further back because that keeps at least those people further away from the entrance. But the question I have for anyone here is should there be some more appropriate directional signs for traffic in and out of this property?
Because we talked about this at the at the Shell station. Um, and this I've had almost had a couple car accidents where I'm trying to pull out because I came in from the other side and people are coming up 206 and zooming right in and and so forth. So, I'm sure
um the owner has probably had to deal with this over the years. Um, is there any way we can maybe put directional signs on on the pavement or or something? I don't know. I just want to put it out there because I think it's an important originally operated years ago and uh
customers refused to follow the science styos. I mean I mean just it doesn't help either that I mean that every car like some cars have the tank on the left and some have it on the right you know and that becomes a problem I do know but I mean if you have
the directional everything following it then one person can occupy one side at a time. So, how about if you use an EV station, maybe go around the back and exit that way because now those people have to pull out and pull in front of the pumps to get out of the place.
I I'm not sure that's true because from 206 and then they have the option of exiting the same way or towards Washington Valley depending on their direction. I don't see that EV charging person would come to the gas pumps. I I mean they don't teach people. So I think
they would avoid that mass which you're correct at all cost. They would come in on the 202 entrance 202 go to the right charge their units and then pull out depending on which direction they're heading. Well, that's that's the question there.
Okay. So it's not about what way they come in. It's about the way they go out. And because I don't even know if they're technically allowed to make a left and go south on 206 coming out of there. If you get if you do if you charge your EV, then you just you you go around the
back of the building and exit the the rear Washington. You want to go 202. You have to go north. You don't want to cross Washington Road. No. You're going 2026 north come out of that southern end. I think the right
answer. I'm not saying what people I'm just want to bring it up. Yeah. When these red, you're going to be blocked from doing that anyway because the car's backed up in front of that entire property. Yeah. I mean, tonight it was no exception to come out. Can I suggest that we have Mr. Brower
take a look at it to see if there's any way finding or directional signage that may be appropriate that might better control internal traffic circulation? I would like that. I was going to ask the engineer this question specifically and I don't know if he has any input
since he's probably designed locations and properties where traffic flow is important. I don't know if he has anything to add to that. Um, you know, I think that's a it's a good comment and and um as Anthony
mentioned, we we will um uh agree to provide some form of wayfinding signs. uh traffic car signs would be helpful uh to know which way you could leave, which way you could enter. I think anything would be helpful. That's
Yeah, I I think I think pavement markings are the way to go. I don't know if way finding signs that stand up are necessarily the way to go. Uh we have limited jurisdiction over these driveways because they are regulated by the county and the state.
But I think the the painted arrows while people will ignore them will have there are certain people who are intimidated by the signs we have. There's a site not far up 206 where both driveways were painted within arrows and none of them
had an out arrow on it. certain certain comedian's daughter was in there and she felt guilty about driving out of you can never lose. It's great marketing tech.
There's a way to design some some pavement markings. At least we can say as a board we addressed that issue and the owner can say he's addressed that issue and if someone goes the wrong way and hits someone else I mean due diligence right
yeah point we travel 25 years ago I don't think any% of our customers are going to pay attention to the motor but we'll be to comply I I I agree with you we see all kinds of stuff oh we sure do I have a couple things that Yeah, go right ahead.
Just an observation to lose point. I I think I haven't been into your gas station in a while. Nothing personal, but I don't get gas. But when I did, I avoided going behind and getting the I guess the the entrance and the exit farther to the right of the
building. You can get out there because it was always potholes. I I just didn't want to drive back there. I think maybe people that come to your station often could possibly go up and out there, but it's so it was so poidden that you don't drive back there. So that other entrance
exit, which would be great for people at the pumps, could probably go up and then you could get on Washington Valley. Right now they're trying to shoot across where all the cars are backed up and it's backing up and it's it's kind of a mess because I don't think anyone wants to go back there even if there was an arrow because it's kind of messed up. I don't know if that's still the case or
not. Maybe it's not, but just an FYI, that's not, you know, to address it. So, they that's in the back. Uh, in regard to the storage issue, my personal opinion, as long as it's not third party storage or
storage for hire, it it seems like what you're doing is perfectly fine. Okay, that's my opinion on that. Now, currently, you have I guess one non-conforming use is a gas station was not permitted there currently, but it's there and that's fine. So what we want to do is add another non-conforming use
which would be the convenience store. Correct. Can I convenience store is actually a permitted retail use. It is it is conforming. Yeah. The convenience store is conforming. Yeah. It's just it hasn't been approved. It hadn't been approved. It hadn't been
approved. Okay. Um, but in this particular area, does that mean is that uh that's allowed in this particular area? A a retail store. A retail store is permitted in the VNO.
A retail store, right? Okay. Is this a package deal? Meaning that if one doesn't fly, you're not going to do the other, or are you absolutely going to do the EV charging stations, whether the convenience store gets approved or not, or is it a package deal you're
going to do all? We prefer to look at the whole package. We're not saying it's all or nothing, but we prefer. Okay. And if something happens where the convenience store isn't approved, I'm not saying it is or isn't, and you do decide to go ahead with the EV charging
stations, will you then still make these improvements to the property? I think the answer is yes. Okay. Anybody else? But but just keep in mind that the parking that we're proposing, the additional parking is triggered by the
convenience store. So if you're not going to approve the convenience store then we have to revisit whether you need all that additional parking right so to so it is interrelated and uh to Mr. For Arrow's point, it is a
permitted use and these convenience stores, especially with Swford here for sale, the limited nature of it. This is not a Wawwa or it it's so incidental. In many municipalities, these convenience stores
are permitted accessory uses to gas stations. And I think it complements it. It makes perfect sense. But how do we monitor? You know, you say, "Oh, we're only going to have certain items in there." How do you monitor the creepa of that thing? Well, you the way you monitor it monitor
part is you've got uh board of health requirements. If you start serving making coffee, serving food, preparing food, that triggers a whole a whole different set of regulations that that we need to comply with. These are just
prepackaged goods that are sold no more, no less. and and you've got coolers for beverages. Uh and just to add to Tony's comment, we've been operating that convenience store snack room that I call it for 25 years. The township, the county of
Benminister or Somerset County has inspected us for 25 years. So there's for food service, there's three levels of food service. restaurant where you're sitting uh convenience store like Wawa where you're preparing foods and what I call a snack shop what we have which is only restricted to packaged goods. So, we've
been inspected by, you know, the fire department every year, the Somerset County Health Department for that. That monitors that we're only preparing, you know, packaged goods. And the reason that the county would come in is because, again, we've been operating for that way for 25 years. We don't have any
sanitation. So, I can't offer you coffee because there's no way for me to wash it for you in a three- tier sink. Our our building is so old and antiquated that our our only sewer or septic is in it's not sorry septic city sewer is a two bathrooms that are on the side of the
building one interior one exterior can so currently that's an 800 foot area. Could that expand if we give approval? We cannot without coming back to this board for approval and we cannot without and we cannot offer additional goods um
without seeking your approval as well. And besides a board's approval to become a full convenience store, I would have to provide the state and the county the ability that shows that, you know, I have proper sanitation, a proper food license for my employees, probably an additional employee that we're not
looking, we don't have the volume or the sales to justify an extra employee and extra cost. I'm uncomfortable with convenience store. We keep saying convenience store. I am looking for a way to get my mind around it, but it's not forgive forgive me. I've been in this
industry for 40 years. grew up in a service bay. Everything we sell, if you go back 30 years ago, would have been in a vending machine, a cigarette vending machine, a Coke vending machine, and we sell the auto necessary items for our customers, oil, transmission fluid, you know, uh additives for the fuel, oil,
gas station related items. So, that's all we've continued to do in this site. Now, as branding has changed and you know, like you you have 20 different flavors of Coke, you have 20 different flavors of items, we see what our customers want, we we provide it. Now, as Tony alluded, 90% of our sales are
cigarettes. 5% is auto and 5% is my soda and candy. A lot of time I'm throwing my candy away because it expires before it's sold. So, you're not looking to expand. And we haven't expanded in 25 years. We're not looking to add lottery. I mean, we could have added a lottery. We don't want to because that's another manning issue and it creates a delay and
a bottleneck that would block our, you know, our store like they alluded to, it's tight. It's a nightmare to get in and out. We don't want we want to continue the operation of the fuel and not impede the sales of our gas station. Okay. And I appreciate that. What are
your hours of operation? Uh Monday through Saturday 6:00 to 11. Monday we have limited hours 8. And I think they leave early sometimes. I mean it's it's you know like Monday through Thursday, Friday and Saturday being the only busy days we have. We
have permit our my night gentleman says I'm tired. There's no customers. The road is dead. We let them go home at 9:30. But the store is open when the gas station's open typically, right? Only when the only when the attendants there in the morning and when and you have the one person generally
one person on the site at a time. Just one person. One person. Okay. So, they're operating everything. Okay. If I can, I'd like to bring Mr. Flynn back up. He tapped my shoulder. He said he wanted to add something to the record. Okay. This is pretty much just for your
attorney and anyone that's as nerdy as me, but I put in the testimony for D1 because that's I was going off uh Mr. Banisher's report to the extent that it's D2 for expansion of a non-conforming use because we're not
proposing a non-permitted use to the extent like I already told you, retail is permitted. If the board finds that that is a permitted use, we'd be looking at D2. It's a less stringent test. We don't have to prove site suitability, although I think that all still stands.
All those benefits that I went through go towards the positive criteria. The essence really is are we improving the property. And I think the last 30 minutes really just bolstered that point that we are going to improve it aesthetically. Um, and all of the
negatives still stand. So, I just wanted to make sure that that's on the record. That's all. Thank you. I appreciate that. That's our case. Uh, okay. I am going to open it to the public. Anybody on in the audience or online? Janine,
it's not online. And um I I just want to say to the board of health secretary, he's 100% correct that that is what their license is for. They they're not a there's not a kitchen. There's not it almost considered like a vending machine. And I do have a copy of that. Obviously, I get
it every year from the Blue House. Thank you, Janice. And this cannot expand. I mean, it it just they have to come back. You have to come back. The bottom line cannot expand and space. All right. Let's say just like it is.
Okay. If there's no one from the public, we'll close to the public. I I just had one question about the environmental status because I know it seemed like there was some remediation going on there for a while. Can you just talk about that? Our the
site has been under remediation before we entered almost 30 years ago. There was an old golf station I think across the street where the bank exists. They had a diesel tank. This is before we came in. This is probably in the '9s or ' 80s. I don't not sure of the dates,
but when they destroyed that site or when they pulled out of that site, they left an abandoned diesel tank into 206. And when they ripped that out, it was unfortunately full. And that created a lot probably 7,000 gallons of diesel fuel to spill into the ground. And then
the dry cleaner line across the street that had a remediation issue that is coming through the probably the corner of our property. So we're on the New Jersey site as a contaminated site. We are monitoring that annually. You know, it's getting better. I'm happy to share
our environmental engineers information if the township requires. Barker bus across the street that had all kinds of things going on where the car wash is. And when they took the tanks out of here the one time they found crush tanks underneath those
tanks. Yeah. Yeah. That that precedes me. So I'm not aware of that. Thank you for that. Unfortunately doesn't Okay. So you're being monitored at this point. Yeah. We're under the state of our EPA
issues and we're doing annual testing on our wells. We have water wells on site because we're we're considered a contaminated site. So you but do you have access to the city water? No. City water for the building. Yes. For our rooms. You're talking about monitoring.
Yeah. Monitoring wells is just for the the underground water for contamination. Yes. But you tapped into the American water or whatever. Correct. And the original contamination started from the golf golf station across the street. Is that I I don't know when the original contamination, but that was the biggest
issue that's triggered us as a as a contaminated site because they thought the tanks were from Exxon after their environmental investigation. It was from the abandoned golf station. Yeah. It went through that whole area, right?
Yeah. Yeah. He happens to be between what was the Gulf gas station and the dry cleaners and the stream. It all wants to go to the stream. Yeah. Yeah. So, it gets to cross his property. Okay. Okay. Anything you want to say is a sum up?
No. Okay. Paul, I had one question. The schematics of the charging stations had ballards. I assume you're good with where they want them. And yeah, that they're sufficient and all.
It's not good to back into those. Yeah, it would be bad for everybody. Yeah. Not good. Okay. Okay, everybody. Good. All right, Tom. I think we're uh ready. Okay, everybody. So, uh, it's a motion
to approve the D, and I I think it is a D1 variance because technically you can't have both a convenience store and a gas station in the zone. You can't have any gas stations at all. Um, so
we will be, if the board grants it, be granting a D1 variance with related preliminary and final site plan and site plan waiver for the gravel and limited curbing. Uh it will be subject to the conditions that you discussed this evening and Paul and Frank's reports. Uh
the specific condition that at the convenience store is to be accessory to the G the gas station and limited to the approximate 850 ft shown on the plans with the limited sales of uh uh
cold uh drinks and um packaged uh goods but no food preparation, no uh preparation of coffee or tea and uh no effort no allowance for a um such a license for food preparation. Um they'll
be u they'll move the parking spaces and the EV chargers to be compliant with the 30-foot setback including the um any electrical um uh service uh box. uh they will uh be also given a D1 variance for
the storage uh for the off-site uh convenience stores owned by the principal of this uh station. Um but there'll be no u rental uh no rental
lease arrangements and no um storage by third parties other than those uh convenience stores owned by the principle of this station. Um they'll reduce the u gravel parking area or
gravel driving area in the rear to 60 ft in uh width or depth. uh but maintain the existing um maintain an existing curb cut at Washington Valley Road. They will also add additional uh landscaping
uh and uh to the satisfaction reasonable satisfaction of the board engineer and the board planner. Any dispute with them shall be returned to the board for final determination. They will paint and otherwise freshen up the exterior of the building
and uh Mr. Barrero is authorized to work with the applicant to um have the applicant do painted markings um for directional um direction of traffic on the uh park on the driveways and parking
area. Um and those are the conditions that I had. Madam Chairman, thank you. I'll make the motion. Second. Mr. Walter. Hi, Miss
Hi. Mr. Leonard. Hi. Mr. Hi, Mr. Dini. Hi, Mr. First. Hi, Chairman. Hi. Thank you very much. Congratulations. Congratulations. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Y Okay. Okay. Does the board have anything else they want to discuss? I think no. And we need a a motion meeting next week. Next week. No meeting next week. No meeting next week. Okay. I've been told that we have
several applications besides Tesla when they brief the bid that are coming, but as of right now, we don't. So, and we know about October. I don't. Unless Tesla is done by then, we may not have a October meeting, at
least not the first week, but I will keep you posted. Of course, definitely not next week. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So, we need a motion to make a motion to adjourn. Second. All in favor? Have a good evening.
Good night, everybody. Have a good weekend, everybody. Yeah. Clean up the problem. Yes.