adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the co-star the official newspaper of the burrow of Belmar and the Asbury Park Press on December 13 2023 and notice of this meeting was posted on the Bolton board Municipal Building take roll call councilman Kenny here mayor bco here councilman rero here and Council M Donovan and councilman Lis are absent I please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance Al uned States please remain standing for a moment of silence for our Armed Forces our troops and First Responders and their families thank you following on the agenda we're going to just hold off on the proclamations so we can get right into the uh the workshop uh tonight we're going to have an update on our Redevelopment and affordable housing situation here in belmare we're fortunate to have our two attorneys uh one there one there Leslie lond and Joseph Balman and they're going to give us all an update on what's been happening uh and what the law is and what we can expect in the future so I'm going to turn it over to them and uh I think we're going to come down so that we can see the P so while the mayor and Council are coming down I'm Joe Balman um with MCB scin and Balman Les London's my partner uh and we've been leading the effort on behalf of you and the governing body with info from the mayor of the council and the ba and navigating our way through uh our affordable housing obligations so my partner Li was a partner from 35 years we've been working together for a long time she's the real expert on the affordable housing world I'm more on the Redevelopment side so we're sort of a tag team for like better word Les really handling the litigation dealing with the interveners dealing with the uh special Master going with the judge she has all the expertise on the existing law the K law and working us through the process my role has been primarily on negotiating with the interveners which we won't hear a lot about tonight U that's too come the purpose of this meeting was the mayor and the council the VA asked us to spend a little time educating the public about where we are in this process and what you know will have to come in the future so that we can all understand where we sit need to be the law and our responsibilities and our obligations so Leslie is going to take you through it I'm I'm going to be her van white uh and I'm going to make sure we move the slides along but this is really Leslie's show uh tonight and we're we're also available for questions uh we want to keep share with you as much as we can keeping in mind that we are still limited by certain requirements and certain uh need to become confidential and what I mean by that is through this process it's a it's a negotiation the goal is to come to a settlement it's not the only way this can turn out it can turn it into a loss with one of our interveners or all of interveners but the goal the preferred course is to reach a settlement that we that is in the interest of the borrow from Mars perspective and then you know brings the other side to the table um because that process inevitably is involves this negotiating with multiple interveners as you'll hear we have multiple all the parties we're dealing with in very different projects it's not in the Burrow's interest for any one of those individuals to have insight into our negotiations with the others it's in our Collective interest to keep them in the dark with one another so the confidential analysis here is not for our we're not trying to keep it from the public it's the opposite we're trying to keep it from the other people that were negotiating to not be aware of our negotiations we may agree to one with one individ intervener for developer something that we may not agree with another so every one of those negotiations are separate and it is not in the interest of the government body of the buau and the public for the engers to be aware of what we're doing so primarily our need to be uh confidential and have our confidential meetings with the Gover body there'll be plenty of disclosure at the appropriate time with the public you have time to hear what we're doing and where we're going before there's votes or official actions but for the moment we have to leave a lot of this uh out of the public View and again it's to protect the public not necessarily to keep it from you we there just no other way Leslie is going to share with you again the the law our obligations where we are through the process and give you a little insight into the law that just got adopted a couple months ago which is going to dictate how we have to build move forward so I we're hoping this will be a significant educational process that's why we're happy to answer questions there may be questions you'll ask where we we'll say can't tell you the answer to um but by and large we're going to try and tell you everything we can that we think won't VI impede our voity to do the best job we can on behalf of the government body on behalf of the Town ultimately on behalf of you together so Leslie good evening mayor council members and members of the public what I hope to do this evening is to give you a overall summary if I can do that it's it's a very long process going back many years but um a good summary of affordable housing how we got here why are we here what are we doing what has to be done and then bring you up to date as to the uh legislation that Joe mentioned that was just passed couple weeks ago signed by the governor which also will have an impact on the burrow excuse me so historically we go to 1975 which started the whole Mount laal do Doctrine was a case at New Jersey Supreme Court involving Mount Marl Su that had been filed against them claiming that they were not providing adequate housing for uh poor lowincome and moderate households that case culminated in a decision by the court where the court determined that municipalities in New Jersey have a constitutional obligation to provide their fair share of housing in the region and it became a it is actually it's a mandatory constitutional obligation so it's not something you cannot do it's mandatory by Court law municipalities were broken into regions belmare is in Region 4 which includes merca Mammoth and ocean counties so when you look at income levels it's not just based on incomes in belmare it's based on regions excuse me it's based on um income for municipalities in those uh other towns so you say what is affordable housing that's the $100 question and essentially it's housing with a sales price or rent that falls within the means of very low low moderate and uh income hous levels it's not Section 8 housing it's actually working incomes people coming out of college teachers firemen uh and as you see from and I don't know if you could see this from from here but this chart indicates the income levels eligibility for this housing is determined by gross annual household income so to qualify for this housing or moderate it can't be more than 80% of the median income for low income 50% and for very low 30% as an example a household of four people to be considered moderate to be able to to qualify for the housing you have to have an annual gross income of 104,000 $43 low income would be 65,000 $27 and very low would be $39,600 to oversee the efforts to satisfy those obligations municipalities were required to file what's called a housing element and fair share plan which outlines the municipality's plan on how they going to achieve their housing what projects are going to be included time frames for building those projects it lays the groundwork for your plan and once that plan was submitted to COA at the time and was approved municipalities received what's called substantive certification which gave protection to the municipality from what I will call later Builder remedy lawsuits so again this process has been around for many many years the first round covered 1987 to 1993 second round covered 1993 to 1999 and then preparing for the third round was a problem because War suits started happening uh challenging the rules so there was a gap period of 1999 through 2015 which is called The Gap period and the third round started July 1st 2015 and is still in place right now through June 30th of next year so as I mentioned the Gap period involved litigation be share housing center litigated uh challenged the regulations that were being promulgated or tried to be promulgated by COA it culminated in a decision by the New Jersey Supreme Court on March 10th 2015 in the decision what has been called as Mount Laurel 4 and the Court held at that time that the third round rules that would being proposed were non-compliant the court went even further to say COA you haven't been doing your job we're removing you from the process and they gave the process to the courts to deal with and courts were set up uh Municipal excuse me County vises were set up affordable housing judges were appointed and municipalities were given an opportunity up until July 8 of 2015 to voluntarily file what's called a declaratory judgment action with the Supreme Court and in that process municipality would be asking the court to look at its housing plan and to determine if they were in compliance and if so to issue a declaration of compliance and Repose now everyone did not run to the courts uh July 8th by July 8th many did not come at all some came two years later three years later um but at this present time there's at least I think 350 settlements of municipalities that have filed with the court and have entered into settlements with um fair share housing center and I'll talk about why it's important to file these DJ actions so the DJ action the parties involved you have your Mount Laurel judge you have the municipality municipality is represented by a lawyer and you have a planner and we have also a consultant to assist in the matter you have a special master who is generally not an attorney it's usually a planner and our special Master who's handling our case will be here this evening he's coming from North Jersey but it's an expert planner that's been appointed by the court to act as a mediator between the municipality be share housing center and any interveners beare housing center you've probably heard a lot about and read about they are The Advocate nonprofit Advocate that is looking and promoting um affordable housing and that's their job that's all they do they look around to see who has complied and who has not interveners could be anyone uh they could be a builder developer land owner or any other interested party now the intervenor typically is someone that will go to the court and ask to be part of the case and they will say to the judge I want to be part of this case because the municipality has failed to do what it's supposed to do they have not met their uh obligation to create housing so I want to be part of that case and by the way I have some property here that I'd like to build on to help the municipality meet its need I would say 99.9% of the time the court will will allow an entity to get involved as an intervenor once the DJ action is filed the municipality receives what's called temporary immunity it protects the municipality from some other person coming in a developer someone at landowner filing What's called the Builder Bry lawsuit against the uh municipality and again under that scenario if a municipality has not filed a DJ action the developer goes to court they don't come to the municipality they go directly to the court and say to the judge this municipality has failed its obligation I have some property I want to build I want to build it at this density and the Builder in that situation is in the driver's seat because they don't go directly to the municipality they going to the court and asking the court to look at their plan so the disadvantage of not filing DJ action is that you leave yourself open to that Builder developer going into the court and having the judge decide what is good for the municipality not the municipality and when a a builder does the build a redy they are obligated to put in at least 20% % set aside for housing the set aside is interesting because um for every affordable unit you have to build four Market units at least so if your number your obligation is high that's a lot of housing so you want to be in the driver's seat as the municipality so you control what projects get in what they look like rather than the court or the Builder telling you what is being done the other situation besides Builders filing actions if you fail to do anything their share has the right to come in and also sue the municipality and you don't want to leave yourself open for that to happen too and it will happen you know you have some municipalities that take the position well I don't care I'll just wait for somebody to sue me I'll wait for fair share to come eventually they will come knocking at the door they have people that look at the municipalities they see what what's going on if they see development going on and they see that there's no affordable housing as part of that development they will come in and they will go to court and commence the action and again the municipality now is at a disadvantage because you're not leading the way you're not driving the bus anymore you have pair share driving the bus and with the builder remedy you have the Builder driving the bus so we go to how is the municipality's housing obligation determined it took a long time there was a case in Mercer County back in 2018 before judge Jacobson I believe it was maybe two or three months uh of a trial and competing methodologies what should be used and eventually what's called The Jacobson methodology came out of that case which determined what a municipality's numbers will be and again the numbers are based on a region not the particular municipality so it brings us to where we are today the burrow decided to file the DJ action not wait around to be sued by the builders not wait around to be sued by fair share and we got in in time before the builders got to court first so we filed the DJ action March 2nd 2023 last year we are currently still before judge Linda Gro Jones who's pretty good judge Frank banish is our special master and we have four interveners in the case the interveners are repetti Russo development 75 rainy LLC or SackMan mark build properties 613 10th Avenue now each of these developers came into court came to the judge and said I have a project I know the municipality has an obligation I can help them meet that number and um judge Gro Jones likes to tell stories I think she has grandchildren but she equated this to Sherk and the donkey and the developers being the donkey saying look at me look at me I have a project so the judge likes to tell these little stories we also have a recent request for another inter intervener we haven't responded yet on that but 7th Avenue Associates the longer the buau has its action open the longer creates it creates an opportunity for someone else to come in to the court and say hey judge I have a property here I want to build coming to some finality with the process in the court will close the case will give the municipality uh a judgment of compliance and Immunity from anyone else filing a lawsuit against the burrow that is why it is critical to move this forward as quickly as possible I have a case management conference with the judge on Friday the judge has asked that I give her an update on where is the burrow um if we are not far enough along the judge wants to have the mayor and council person come in personally to the judge and sit around and she will help make some decisions but she said you don't want me to do that you want to be in the driver's seat so again how is the burrow addressing its obligation the C the color rules which is still in process or still here provide various mechanisms to reach your number um we don't have a big uh trust fund and other mechanisms that some municipalities have that could help you do other things so we're relying on inclusionary uh projects however the first thing that we cded to do is to try to bring down the number all the numbers were very high because we had that Gap period when nothing was done plus your third round obligation numbers I think they were like maybe 145 in total and that's just affordable units so if you have 145 affordable remember I gave you the math or markets for every U affordable that's a lot of housing so you look to see how can I bring that number down The rules allow you to do what's called the vacant land adjustment and this is for municipalities that don't have a lot of vacant land you can look at uh what you have or don't have and come up with what's called a realistic development potential so you can bring that number down by arguing we don't have any vacant land and so our numbers should be lower but if you have projects or buildings that could be redeveloped that's also looked at as as being B vacant or being available so your planner your affordable housing planner is working now on the vacant land adjustment to come up with the realistic development potential number she's almost there we've been having several meetings with f share and the court Master to bring uh some agreement what that number should be and how we meet it um but it is significantly lower than what it was based on the Jacobson's number so where we are right now as I mentioned I have a case management conference on Friday next week the judge has directed people to come in to see her in the event we I don't give her good news on Friday um so we need to finalize the BAC land adjustment and the RDP which we're working on the plan with the planner and fair share we have to enter into we should enter into settlement agreement with f Sher on the interveners um doing so will stop the process give us immunity and be able to close the book on this third round so part of the process the borrow has to complete a housing element in fair share plan and spending plan these are things that your planner is working on we will have what's called a fairness hearing where if we are in agreement it's just Pro fora going through with the judge outlining what our plan is and how we plan to meet our obligations and there'll be a requirement that the municipality adopt various ordinances to deal with zoning issues that's all part of the package and once all of that is done the court will issue final approval third round certification and you will have immunity and even though it's late if it's here by uh summer you have a year of immunity until next year uh 2025 of no one else coming to knock on your door and demand that housing be built you will be in control and I just noticed this date is wrong here for April 10th hasn't even happened yet I'm a little above my time but it was just recent that the legisl was passed I think I did this last night so that's probably Les's defense I said could you throw together a quick summary last night at around 7 o'clock I was up around 1 o' during this so there you go okay so but um A4 Senate bill 50 was passed recently it is now public L 2024 chapter 2 the main thing that this new legis and this is for the fourth round the fourth fourth round begins uh January excuse me J July 1st 2025 and goes through 2020 35 the main thing that the new legislation does it abolishes COA COA is gone establishes a new process in various parties DCA is involved more now um and it changes the methodology for calculating your obligation for the fourth round and it takes the Jacobson's methodology and does other formulas with it it's a very long process and I didn't want to bore you with that tonight but there are some criticisms about it some people who have looked at it believe that it will result in higher numbers for the municipality but you will still have an opportunity to do uh the vacant land and if you have your plan in place already and your ordinance is ad after that makes it easier going forward the new legislation sets forth very stringent timelines for Action I'm going to go through a couple of those and it imposes consequences for failure to meet those timelines I put this last item in bold here because if your third round obligations are not completed by the time the fourth round is set to happen and and move forward that's the first thing you have to do so you're going to have your third round numbers on top of your fourth round numbers and it's just going to be a bad situ a very bad situation and you'll have more developers and more people knocking at your door to do things so the timeline just a couple of highlights by October 24 2024 DCA has to calculate the numbers which is not that far off and then I'm going to skip down to January 31st 2025 is when the municipality has to determine or conclude what its numbers are and adopt a resolution uh adopting those numbers so you will have from October when those numbers come out from the DCA through the end of this year in December to determine your numbers and to file that with uh DCA so it's not a lot of time so if you are still not not if you are still dealing with your third round your mind is in the third round you're not going to have time to start working on the fourth round and planning and you need to start planning what are you going to do for the fourth round they this new legislation provides a lot of opportunity for Challenge and it's very short time frames for challenge um as I mentioned you have to adopt by January 31st February 28th interested parties that's their deadline to challenge your numbers and um and there's more process back and forth you go to dispute resolution um but your numbers are pres presumed to be okay and as long as you can justify it someone challenging has to come up with their own numbers and show why those numbers are the correct numbers so it's a lot of work for the municipality to do and your planner but that's why it's important to uh start planning as soon as you can so essentially you know I I'll stop there but as as you can see there's a lot of actions to be taken from next year through uh the end of 2025 for the fourth round importantly we need to resolve round three first um but keep the burrow in the driver's seat um and then we could start dealing with fourth round so mayor we open up the question yes you can anyone have questions why don't you come up to the mic I have a quick question than you years ago I was on the planning board and the zoning board they were combined they were separate but going back what happened to Belmore is an established Community okay we have X amount of square feet there's x amount of Housing and yes we tend to go towards more single family housing when things are taken down or rebuilt so there was a um an agreement with I think it was Hal at the time and many other towns that we sold our obligation to how because they have land you sett to places that have room to come up with these things to fit in these excessive amount of numbers that you're coming up with one to four ratio for everyone that you need so what happened to that that was invalidated they called rcas they were eliminated in its entirety and new legis makes clear that RCA are gone many municipalities took advantage of it and paid money to other municipalities that as you say had land or wanted the housing and um fair share fought that saying that's not fair um that you can pay off every municipality needs to do something so by law now you can't do rcas okay so that brings us back to being an establish Community Spring Lake uh Avon any any place that's pretty welldeveloped and doesn't have a lot of vacant land to begin with how does a community like ours do we then curve our our uh building in the future to lean towards more single family housing because that would that would pretty much delineate things of adding uh what you're talking about to develop because otherwise if you have to say you have or the numbers whatever you said 100 before or whatever it was 145 okay 145 times that's over 600 just units in a small town that our infrastructure can't hold what we have right now and uh so you're going to add add add all these things so to bring it down if you stick with single family housing in our future how does the state expect this town to do that this um the legislation does not contemplate single family housing they're looking at um rentals or town houses for for sale but single family would not be part of this what fair share would do uh if this vacant land they would not approve and the court would not approve building a single family home they would be arguing that you should be building a townhouse with some other development and you will have a developer come in and say to the court I can build a rental I can build tow houses so that but you were talking about vacant land which we don't really have right and that's why we do the VAC so is vacant land considered if someone buys you know two or three properties takes it down and then you have three lots and then the state says well now you'll have three lots so do you should put up six condos instead of three houses or I don't understand if you don't have a land to begin with where you're supposed to get it from there are some bacon parcel that are included on the list they also look for underutilized properties that may be vacant and they will consider those to be um uh part of the vacant land analysis and is there a size on those lots like what you're talking about like a Min minimum so in your downtown are for intervenors have properties that they can put multif family projects on that's what there are right they're saying that we describe to you the mark built or those properties out of a hotel on one of them you can knock that a hotel down and put a multi products so there is land in the Barrow where developers are prepared to remove what's there and build multif family and they're going to fair share in the courts and saying we would we don't care what the zoning says we can change we can do take that land and build an apartment complex on that's how it's Happ so in your example for example without the protection someone could knock down three homes and you describe this zone for single family and get the court to agree that you have an obligation you're not meeting and I can put now on those three single family homes six town houses except for the town didn't you go ahead and create an ordinance uh not too long ago because of what was done on 12th Avenue that you could not do cluster of building I the part you're not understanding is at some level you lose control of your zoning whatever the town may have passed doesn't matter if the court concludes that you have an obligation you're admitting it'll set aside your zoning as so in these projects that we're talking about the zoning may be this size but the court is going to allow them to do different than your Zone you can't protect yourself I understand I understand they're overriding us so you're saying we have no our laws are not are going to be overridden by the state oh we're trying to protect laws by doing things like negotiating with developers to something we could live with and then getting immunity from lawsuits going forward so we're trying to satis we're trying to so but what what you're referring to are there large scale projects in this conversation right now is that what you're talking about right now something you are all well aware I think you you know I can't get de but I think everyone's well aware what was was proposing right that was a public proposal that was made to you so you know what they want to build today when you don't don't know is what we're trying to get them to build instead that's where which is less okay so our job those developers are pushing for bigger projects on those properties that they control their own and our job is to bring that into something that we could live with correct that's why I brought it up if that was know single family then it wouldn't have matter it wouldn't matter it wouldn't have matter it wouldn't have helped you because because we don't have enough you have an obligation at some level so our other job is to get your your your obligation low the number that Leslie gave you the big number our job is to try and get that to be lower by saying we don't have a lot of vacant land but they're going to point to properties where well there's this there's a single shop on this piece of property it could it could have four five multi have an apartment p on it that's the way they're thinking about okay that's all fine and good but then who is responsible the state wants to be so bad about this and you know they have rule who's paying for the infrastructure so the so the Court's been clear back me up that the infrastructure requirements or the school requirements are not a factor in whether or not you you can't go to the court and say we don't have room for those children or we don't have the infrastructure to support them I'm not talking about the the children in the school I'm talking about flooding on our streets on a good day that it rains here you're floating as long as complying with the EP rules and regulations there's not we can do this not that it's it's part of the challenge I understand it I just think we're I mean I respect your presentation I just think we're missing something because I just can't see our neighboring towns maybe they haven't gone also like you're saying we're jumping ahead by going forward and volunteering to get behind you know so we're not behind the eight wall okay but has Spring Lake has seagert has uh Avon Bradley Beach have have we contacted them to see that they've all also gone forward to meet these requirements because we're all kind of in the same boat well every is and as I mentioned there's at least 350 municipalities in New Jersey that have already settled with fair share and again this goes back to 2015 when it's first started so you have towns that went in in 2015 right so it's almost 10 years later and no one's even jumped up because the state's so behind and actually even catching up with people who have and they and they have been catching up with other towns you share and some of those towns I think are actually in the process that you mentioned I don't know we're not famili with all of them but I some you mentioned are in the process yes thank you Linda shus 4th Avenue I don't want this point that Miss rener brought up about infrastructure to go a notice because if this program is not going to assist is you're going to put the people who are living here out of their homes for the increase in taxes that'll be required to redo water sewer the roads if you may have had a nice bumpy ride getting here I mean we're really in bad shape and the plan for redoing the roads hasn't been established and you know our water and sewer lines are undersized so I would hope as you're walking down this path on affordable housing there's some somewhere along the line we address how we solve our problem without having the residents of belmare lose their homes because they're unaffordable so make sure you I just want to make sure we don't represent the state of New Jersey we didn't write these laws we're like we're on it may not sound like it but we're on your team trying to maneuver your way through it and and unfortunately the courts have consistently said they don't care about that impact on the taxpayers they but you're working with the developers no they're our adversary yes and we're negotiating with them on things and this is really important to the because these discussions were underway with these developers prior to getting to this stage so that's really sad that we lost the opportunity to have Ro you know sewer lines replaced yeah I'm not com what happened before we got here I yeah but we have to because it's our reality no no but yeah 100% so thank you good evening uh J mcdermit 5:15 6th Avenue full disclosure I'm the chairman of the planning board so I just wanted to ask a few questions um I know you said all familiar with all the properties can we go back through that cuz I just wanted to know what the unit count they were looking for initially I'm not going be to give you that information okay can you pull the list up or something so we can look at it I think there's a fifth one that was added right said that Avenue there's four interveners yeah IET that the the fifth one uh 7th Avenue associates they their attorney reached out to the burrow asking to allow them into the case otherwise they will be filing directly with the court and ask the court to allow them to be an intervenor we by the way our positions know they can't get in the case okay so you're going to try to push that off yes okay but ultimately it's the judge's decision they'll make that decision yes do we know where that property is beyond the the legal name I I don't know we just got so it's repetti Russo development 75 rainy LLC SackMan mark Properties LLC and 613 10th Avenue LLC so petty property is the hotel yeah well that was like 240 plus am mon that one I know was public the other ones I don't know what was SackMan was about 54 units okay Mark bu was about 100 units that one I'm not sure and then I have those numbers I don't know what was I just I just know from looked at these over the past and then I think the eye do or iorn is like 14 12 years something like that um so obviously you're trying to negotiate those numbers down while meeting the affordable obligation correct that's that's where you're at with this right we're trying to keep the numbers as low as possible we have a number that is Our obligation number which is 20% well we have the number the realistic development potential number which is as I mentioned that's a number less than the 145 that we started with so whatever that number is after the B land adjustment it'll be down to whatever and then we have to meet so then you're negotiating that number with the developers to see who can meet that obligation how you can meet for we want whatever the obligation for each property is to be satisfied by that property no more no less so if if your property is going to create an obligation of five you want you to solof F separately but it can't be five with one property we don't necessarily need to give one across five properties well first with the intervie our goal is to property satisfi it's property's obligation for the balance of the burrow there will be an obligation that will not we cannot satisfied on those properties that'll be whatever is left so that's beyond so this that's part negotiation with fair share but is it part of the 145 those properties less than so my point is if it ends up being 90 let's play out numbers right you could try to meet that obligation with one or two of the properties maybe three properties not necessarily all five properties four proper it has to be spread across all them the judge is going to expect every one of those to okay so we will have all four of those developments fill in some form or fashion just so we're clear yes okay so then after let's say gets through a settlement you went through the timeline it gets to the court the court settles obviously I'm looking at is saying okay feel like this is late to the game because now we're finding out all this is the public will the public have an opportunity was that that's not fair did this conversation is like for the ging not fair I had this whole conversation with the governing body and the public four months ago when we first filed the DJ action we had this entire discussion so so we knew about all four of these properties that happens as they C right okay so we didn't know about all I just don't want you to pretend or sugesta we haven't been as fourth right as we can we really work really hard on that that's the only reason I take com much well I'll let I'll let the public decide sure it's not for me to say um so I guess the question is from the planning board perspective will these properties after court settlement come to the planning board so the public has an opportunity to look at that and then I guess the question is even if that's the case if it's a settlement there's probably not a lot that the planning board can do as it relates to the application because really this settlement's been made in terms of number of units size all that maybe we're going to be able to address the facade or something like that but really the obligation will be met in that settlement is that so the settlement is going to be complicated it's going to take several meetings to right it'll be a settlement and then we're going to have a list of stuff we have to do right any one of those could go off the rils and bl the sub for example we have have to change the The Zone we may have to adopt that Amendment to the Redevelopment plan that process and arguably Gover body with each vote could change their mind and blow up the S and we're back to where it going so which is fine there's a lot of it's a complicated a lot of Step does it get to the planning board it will get to yes full full s plan application full Lo but short of we really the adjustments we can make as a planning board will be somewhat limited I would say they're similar to what you can do now because there will be they will show up an as of right application I can't change un account you couldn't for any other for an as of right application no you can't so all these will be as of right now because we're going to have to do change the zoning all right so they'll be as right that's the difference because everyone else would be they would be coming in for a variance any someone came in tomorrow with a a compliant plan understand that but they're not necessarily in that place before the lawsuit they were not as a right well I mean I can tell you they got rejected I rejected one of them on my board they're not as APR so they weren't before this but that's why they came into the litigation because the litigation hasn't been resolved yet so they saw an opportunity to circumvent but but you youse they could have filed a buildy loss and gotten what they wanted whether whether it was not could but a lot of people didn't as of 2015 to Vick's Point not a lot of other they had and you tried to Pro that would go for housing share with Su inste probably would have jumped in okay so they will come before the planning board that was my real question okay I fullone site plan application okay thank you 6en everything that we have to build we can't have single family homes it all has to be multiple dwellings is this what it's coming down to in Belmore I we've had it with multiple buildings will be multip everything all the four intervenors will proposing multiple and any other vac property or is that one too they have to be multiple families I'm sorry everything that gets built has to be multiple families everything's so the economically it's hard for someone to build an affordable housing home you can't can't now all of this development that has happened in Belmar do they all have affordable housing before today yeah oh no not no well why aren't they well because prior we've always had a quoter from in the past govern anybody didn't require yeah there's 12 but we in the past I think people were allowed to build without a what is the sense of having a planning board zoning rules when the state just throws them out and says so the state's view you can't do that is not your bound view or London view the state's view is you have a constitutional obligation to provide for and if you won't do that then we're going to override your Zone because we think you have a constitutional obligation bigger than your zoning that's the way the Supreme Court thinks again not our view but the Supreme Court is saying to you Town your zoning is less important than your constitutional obligation to provide affordable housing in New Jersey to provide the constitution of New Jersey but that's destroying delar I'm sorry it is I'm not I'm not advocating for I'm just trying to get Toth from the from here to the other end without having but everything that's going up is high rises it the traffic everything else is ridiculous and this is not what we want our town to be I think you have to take it up with the legisl is anyone here fighting the legisl tell they pass well no seriously can we yeah you we qu right now fighting for yeah but we're fighting for lower quotas not just throw away the whole that fight that fought that fought fight was fought and lost can't be read too and the fourth round was just approved by the legislature the Senate and the assembly approved both a package of bills going into the fourth round they didn't make any changes I mean well they made changes but they didn't take away the Constitutional obligation then what is the point of having a zoning and a planning board in a town H say the only solution I think is you would have to put a refer on I think amending in New Jersey Constitution okay I change the cons I think the question though was if I'm a if I'm a I own a home in Belmar and I want to sell it somebody buys there's no obligation on me to have affordable hous I think that's what no no no I mean everyone who owns a single family resident can sell it sure and and and have another or if they have a lot they can purchase you know they can purchase a lot and build a single family home it's not an obligation no to put an affordable house there's there's no obligation it's a municipal obligation not indivual okay back so getting back to what you're saying which AG just gr up 10,000 right now that is a uh commercial building it was an eyass case that's one of the ones that were mentioned it's commercial and it's an eyeglass place so the impact on the community is zero it was parking got your eyes checked you're left now because the building is sold or because it was purchased we're saying now we have an obligation on that particular lot on these five that we listed correct that it's going to be um whether your condos town houses whatever it is to help meet some of these numbers is that correct the buyer the owner of the property is offering their property for development which includes to, okay but what was it zoned for yes is it zoned for multiple units and and all that the current zoning permitted for SL building in that W spot okay so that meanss me to zoning if it's going back to zoning we need to review our records thoroughly but it doesn't matter because if they if they are an intervenor the Court decides what the zoning is right so I think what so say for example but say it was Z for commercial one story no no resen they could still be intervening and saying judge my property is z one story commercial buil in retail I want to put a four story residential and CU next to that is residential right so you're making their case for them um now why it should be fine for us to put a residential property when residential property a residential meaning if it's a a lot that could be subdivided into two single family homes it would be cohesive to the neighborhood a four story building in between that and you know one house next door is not in the same uh look of what you're trying to ask here's the things that I I want to give you some sense that things are not all doom and gloom through this process we are very involved in for example what the building might look like we are spending a lot of time with our planner and the developer saying we don't like that building it's ugly we want you to so we're in the weeds in the you have to accept the fact that the building's coming in some way shape or form our job is to make sure it's the smallest building possible and we have to convince the court and this is all about this partly about economics right so they're going to say we have to build a big building because we can't afford 20% of our affable housing can't afford to put 20% affable housing unless you give us a big building we're we have we're using financial consultants planing Consultants to say your numbers are wrong you can build a smaller building and still be J AFF housing or we're saying hey fair share give us a break make this property have a little less affordable housing so we can bring the building down we're doing all those things to try and get a project that it's not with the developer wants it's certainly not with fair share wants so if you're negotiating that are you also negotiating they'll be replacing the water lines of s everything that has to do with the infrastructure of what that's going to have as a toll on the community is that part of a negotiation so we could negotiate give us a million bucks for sewers right that's one possibility but they will show in their numbers if I need to give you a million bucks for sewers I need 10 more residential units to pay for a million bucks and your sers that's not part of my project was so a lot of this is is a math equation so the more they are trying to prove to the court this is all I can do Court in order to make this project financially viable and we're saying you don't need to do all that to make it financially viable and there's a big battle about the cost and give and take but in your specific example where we say if we were to say to them give us a million dollars more for S they might say fine but they'll say but I need five more units to pay for that and we might say well we don't want five more units so it's a it's a very involved the process to try and get us to the best result that people that you elected to do this for you want want to get but projects are coming we're just trying to make them be as least impactful as we can and we're using you know we're using a planner we using Financial consult we have lawyers that have been Liv for 30 years and there's a fairly we we we canel negotiations at least twice with two of the others and so it's a very back and forth and then we have a special Master who's engaged oh he's here so he and he's sort of like the honest Broger his job is to say look guys you're asking for too damn much and I I do want to say that to the judges and the judges defense a little I don't she doesn't want to wreck the character of bore she is pretty clear many of the judges are we're not trying to upend we're not going to when someone comes and says they got to put a you know the 10 story building in Delmar she's never going to let that so there is a a level where she is also trying to uh get us to a place where we meet Our obligation without destroying the character of the town the character of the town is part of the conversation 100% but there's this obligation is it up to you or mayor and Council to check with the surrounding communities to see how they've been handling it we're we're aware of most I we follow a lot and they're all doing the same they're all dobor everything's different everybody's different I can assure you they're all different cuz they all different problems right they have all different things so may not have a downtown they may have only SE down Community it just sounds horrible question though once once we meet our affordable housing obligation whether it's the third round or the fourth round then we're we're out of the affordable housing business basically know if we then Builders remedy suits can't exist won't exist anymore correct for for the third round you'll have imunity to take you through 2025 but I mean hypothetically get the fourth round and you know after a year or two yeah we after the fourth round right after the fourth round we meet Our obligation we're done until 2035 until 2035 and I'm not going to work but again there's a there's a practicality of all this there's there is only so much land here and it's hard to buy three adjacent parcels and knock them down so there is a there's a practical reality that if you just don't have the land there's just much you can built for now the focus is clearly on your downtown where there's plenty of land there's parking lots that can be built on top of there's commercial retail commercial that's that is less valuable than multi that's going to be I think primarily where the focus will be um so you there is you just can't build it becomes cost prohibitive to to a developer to come and say I'm going to knock down these $31 million homes bu so the economics lack of land those things are still going to be critical because no one's asking check stuff so there is you still going to hit a point where there's just nothing else to can be done for for the moment though your downtown has opportunities that property owners are prepared to take advantage of where the other thank you U John Ruble 6th Avenue um I just want to make it clear that I understand the number of units that we're talking about now in phase three and then also the potential for an increase with the Jacobson's theum or something to even go higher so there's 145 units now affordable no that was the number before we did a BAC it's going to be less it's going to be much less yeah much less okay that's what Jacobson said we disagree that's why we and then could that go up for the fourth round we will know that um in October as I mentioned the DCA is going to put out their numbers for the region and will include the municipality of what they believe the numberers should be for the fourth round the burrow then will have its planner and everybody else look at the number analyze it and if we don't agree with it we come up with our own number and so um worst case 145 units affordable housing multiply that by five to get the total number of units right that 80% would be non affordable housing there is a cap on if we go with that we're going to look brilliant we them so we'll go with that yeah because the mayor and Council are going like brilliant that's not going to be okay and the next as a followup you have a worst case in your mind do you have a best case in your mind yeah we can't share okay thank you yeah we have a negotiating sorry John will senior B Street this all came about because we haven't been uh doing off fast here right so the can's been kicked down the road it would have been better if we addressed it okay so basically we're just paying for past sins or past admissions you were going to have to pay the pipe Ro no no listen I'm just asking a question I don't want to dispers no no yes all right we better we done it before okay well I I know a little bit about this because and it's this is going on everywhere A friend of mine they even did in culate my my friend bought a condo there I said I didn't even know they had condos there and it's at the end of Colts Neck right before you go into Freehold there's like a little road there's a bunch of condos I be pretty nice too but uh I mean this this is what come back to want you and that other thing would called the uh M laal case when they used to you paid the other guy off to take your RCA Regal contribution RC yes so I mean we're going to have to do it so I mean we're just G to have to make the best and that's what your guys's job is job okay great guidance from the mayor ba and Council who are with us are you step away they think we're doing things that they think we're doing too much or whether they're they're keeping us in line every sing way so it's a team effort all right well don't don't worry I'm never going to think you do too much but I got a good piece of land for you too Avenue and Main Street it was an old shop they could do it there we're not the developers people might blow in the do but they'll have affordable hous thank you any other questions so Sor wolsh no I'm not coming up I'm not walking that far um just wanted to know are we going to be punished for what was built you know and that didn't hold that the last few buildings that went up they don't have affordable I mean you it's in them are we being punished for that will we be I don't think that's not the right word fine no NE none of those we have an obligation we're trying to make the obligation as small as possible they we're trying to meet It Whatever happened in the past doesn't matter okay right we're just looking forward okay thank you uh that that concludes our presentation thank you everybody right get okay thank you uh I'm going to make a last call for questions because you know at the end of the meeting obviously we have a comment section but uh the experts are here now uh so if you ask a question at the end you know we'll try to answer but I guess the best thing at that point would be to put it in writing and we could forward it to our our attorneys so if there's anything you want to ask you know we'll do it now or else um you know I might not have an immediate answer for you at the end of the meeting okay thank you he why don't we just the petitions I have not received any petitions approval minutes minutes first I have a motion to approve the minutes of the March 26 meeting make the motion second counc mckenny yes may yes Council R yes reports of council before we do that we have two proclamations one for Arbor Day and one for um April is Child Abuse Prevention month and councilwoman Kenny is going to do the Arbor Day and councilwoman rondano is going to do the uh Child Abuse Prevention mon Harbor Day 2024 whereas in 1872 J Sterling Maron proposed to the Nebraska Board of our agriculture that a special day be set aside for the planting of trees and whereas this holiday called Arbor Day was first observed with the planting of more than a million trees in Nebraska and whereas Arbor Day is now observed throughout the nation and the world and whereas trees can reduce the erosion of our precious top soil by wind and water cutting Heating and Cooling costs moderate the temperature clean the air produce lifegiving oxygen and provide habitat for wildlife and whereas trees are a renewable resource giving us paper wood for our homes fuel for our fires and countless other wood products and whereas trees in our town increase property values enhance the economic Vitality of business areas and beautify our community and whereas trees wherever they are planted are a s a source of joy and spiritual renewal now therefore the mayor and Council of the bir of belmare do hereby Proclaim April 26th 2024 Arbor Day in the Bureau of belmare and the mayor and Council here I urge all citizens to celebrate Arbor Day and support efforts to protect our trees and woodlands and to plant trees to Gladden the hearts and promote the well-being of this and future Generations presented April 9th 202 boort okay thank you very much Council WI rero April is Child Abuse Prevention month whereas we all have a responsibility as individuals neighbors community members and citizens of the burough of Belmar to help create healthy nurturing and safe experiences and whereas healthy and safe childhood help produce confident and successful adults and whereas child abuse and neglect often occur when people find themselves in stressful situations without Community Resources and don't know how to cope and whereas incidents of child abuse and neglect can be reduced by making sure all families have the support they need and deserve to raise their children in a healthy environment and whereas courta appointed special Advocates Casa is authorized by state statute and federal law to help the court and child welfare systems make best interest decisions on behalf of children removed from home because of abuse or neglect and whereas Casa volunteer advocates in Belmar help to ensure that abused and neglected children are placed in foster care and other out of the home placements are safe and receive the services they need to achieve well-being whereas Casa Advocates reduce the number of moves between placements help shorten the overall time a child remains in placement and serve as a consistent person in the child's life until that child achieves permanency in a safe home with a loving family now therefore the mayor and councel of the burough of belmare do hereby Proclaim April 20124 is Child Abuse Prevention month and urge all citizens to support the Kasa Network across new Jersey as it strengthens families and helps children learn grow and prve thank you very much uh let's move on to reports of council start with the council mckenny thank you okay uh just real quick I wanted to uh thank the burough for putting on the health fair we had a health fair this past Sunday which was wonderful it was the first one it was very well organized there are a lot of Health um organizations there I was able to participate as Dr Jody from Kenny Chiropractic so it was just great it was good to see people from the community come out so thank you thank you so much for that um the recreation signups are happening now for summer tennis summer tennis camp is June 24th to 28th kids running club signups summer basketball signups and Junior guards all happening now uh St Tre commission we already talked about it but Arbor Day is the last Friday of the month the 26th and we will be celebrating by planting trees with the fourth graders from both fmar Elementary School and St Rose grammar school and around schools Belmar Elementary May 9th they wanted to early announce their spring band and chorus concert and it's also combined with an art show so come out for that and they're busy with spring Sports and class field trips St Rose schools this weekend 13 the 13th is their um by anual clothing drive it's in the parking lot by the red brick building behind the church from 8: to 10 a.m. so bring all your old clothes sheets towels whatever you need to get rid of bring it all to the clothing Dy um in the Spring Lake parking lot and runway for Roses they are doing a fashion show this also this Sunday the 14th it's at 1 p.m. it's a fashion show and all the Fashions are from local businesses around the the area local local uh stores around the area 1 p.m. $25 to get in online or $30 at the door and then lastly I just do um councilman Don and I wanted to reiterate that there is a big Verizon update Town Hall please spread the word it's going to be on social media as well Taylor Pavilion next Thursday the 18th at 700 p.m. there are going to be other countown elected officials at this event our County commissions are um I'm sorry County Commissioners are going to be there director County Commissioner Tom Aron there's going to be big wig attorneys speaking at this giving us the latest updates on the lawsuits and what's happening happening with the county the bureau the interveners it will be like I said on social media please share it and um share it if you have neighbors that don't have social media on computers please come out to the town hall okay thank you that's it councilwoman Ronda Aro great thank you um I just had a few notes from councilwoman Donovan as well um the Belmar environmental commission will meet on Thursday 6:30 at the library this meeting is open to the public and we will have volunteers there Claire and Sharon Hanner to collect plastic film uh things like plastic bags the wrap that your bread comes in from any residents who'd like to stop by to recycle their home collection also the Silver Lake team meets this upcoming Monday we'll have a call with the Army Corps of Engineers next Thursday to discuss the lake as a reminder the belmare environmental commission is sponsoring a community clean up of Silver Lake Saturday April 27th from 11: to 1: for more information check on our Facebook page and while you're there uh go and follow our page uh for the belmer Housing Authority they had their meeting last Monday uh director Dan santis let me know Thursday that the state will inspect the main elevator so it should be back in service immediately on Thursday if it passes um as far as the Belmar Public Library they have their writer block Spring Book Fair coming up this Saturday uh from 10: to 2: featuring 30 local Jersey Shore region authors um it's a great opportunity to meet local authors and get your book signed um there's so much going on at the library please go to the library website and find out more um also I just wanted to say as the warmer weather approaches I'm having more residents reach out to me about parking issues um and uh neighbors visitors who might not be as considerate as making sure that you get into those spaces as tight as you can so everyone who lives um in buildings that don't have driveways um can park somewhat near their homes um it's a struggle for all Belmar residents who don't have um a driveway or you know signed off Street and um it's something that I i' still like to see if in the future especially when we're talking about paid parking um whether we can have some uh resident um parking where it's permitted just for residents thanks thank you um I had two things to say but of course Council Ken did the update on the mayor's Wellness thing and Council Rondo reported on the the BC things so I only have two little things to report on uh but I would like to thank the uh the vendors including Dr Kenny for the um for coming to the health fair on uh Sunday it was very well attended and um I think it was was a great event um the other thing you will notice that we have new microphones up here so you know it takes a little getting used to cuz we want to keep going here and then it gets louder so I think by the end of the meeting we'll have that old down pack and uh you may notice if you go around Silver Lake they're beginning the installation of new garbage cans around the lake and uh I know uh a few residents are very excited about that so um we just now have to get people to put the garbage in the garbage cans so that will be the next uh hurdle that we have to for us other than that I don't believe I have anything else to report on so why don't we move on to the public session for the uh consent agenda resolutions if anyone from the public would like to speak about a resolution listen on the agenda please step forward state your name and address can I have a motion to close the public session motion second all in favor I I have a motion to approve the resolutions as listed on the consent agenda motion second Council mckenny no Mayor Michael fesco Yes councilman Rondo yes uh next we have second reading in public hearing on ordinance 20243 this is an ordinance to exceed the municipal budget appropriation limit liit and to establish a c bank this is open for a public hearing if anyone would like to speak on the ordinance please step forward state your name and address I have a motion to close the public hearing motion second all in favor I and can I have a motion to adopt ordinance 20243 motion second Council mckenny yes coun uh mayor bu pusco Council R the narrow yes uh next is first reading and introduction on ordinance 20244 this is an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 26 housing and property maintenance standards um enacting U material storage require deicing material storage requirements for the purposes of compliance with ms4 tier a municipal storm water General permit requirements um can I have a motion to offer for first reading and introduction I'll make the motion second cman Kenny yes mayor bco yes councilman Rondo yes and next is ordinance 20245 an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 31 section 2 sheet tree commission and uh enacting tree removal prisions for purposes of compliance with the ms4 tier a municipal storm water permit requirements this is um being offered for first reading and introduction do I have a motion motion second yes mesco yes councilman R the arrow yes okay that is all the items we now open for public session uh please remember to state your name and address before you speak and we are also uh following a 5 minute rule so just C on just quick question on the ordinance with the uh tree tree removal Neil she 44 uh it says someone violates the ordinance we find no less than $20 no more than the maximum allowed under the law what what does that mean the municipal court has a $2,000 C okay thank you thank you uh I had no idea the beginning of the meeting the whole thing that was taking place I actually came on a couple of um items one of them uh the new supposed new first aid building on 12th in Maine where are we with that um I updated that a few meetings ago and I really don't have anything else to update at this point we are doing a uh analysis of the uh interior of that building did we tomorrow you we have our Engineers have someone going in to check for any hazardous materials on the inside of the building and so we're still moving forward to develop it it's just on a slow Bo um we we need to see what yes I'd have to say yes for now okay um I'd like one or one of you to meet with me to come over to 11th and um I guess it's D Street where the old yesima school is and I'd like somebody to take a look at it with me we've been very patient I'd say 30 to 40 Years of what we've been looking at and um I didn't come when I was supposed to come a few months ago but I had a neighbor very upset that their cats were missing and I guess the windows were screwed uh with plywood so I got a drill and I called the police and told them what I was going to do and I met the neighbor over there and their cats were stuck inside so it's gross I mean um I understand I don't know is it does anybody have a clue is it under somebody purchased it is it in court still and it's this has been years I know I recently asked ouro attorney um to look into that property to see what whether it's you know sold or what the situation is I had a conversation with Kevin uh today fact so we're going to take a look at that take a look at what we can do look at the condition where you just passed something tonight about maintenance I heard what was that was there an ordinance or something you were reviewing about maintenance yeah I me if it's in a condition that we can act but I at this point I don't know what kind of condition I'll gladly meet with someone I would like someone to see what I saw it the stench is the animals it it's just there's nothing positive going on there and like I said we have debors on both sides all the houses have been you know fixed up and done and it's still sitting there it's just like a body rotting it's just gross yeah it's it's dilapidated but it's still owned by a group of people and my understanding is it's not getting sold because that group cannot internally come to an agreement so it sits at some point sits say it RS to to the extent that we can act but you know to be honest do they get fined does it has the town been finding them for not taking care of the property I don't know if they've been finded I don't think so and why is that I don't I don't know I don't know that answer actually does anybody know why they haven't been would anybody like to meet me there would like to just ask uh Council there is a there is a provision in the ordinances where if five people get together they can file a a a petition or a complaint can they can have a a facility or structure uh demolished I think there's a I know our Cod official can do that but I think there's also an opportunity for for um residents or whoever to to file a petition with the court you still have to meet certain standards before you can do that five people just no was before the court I'd be happy to meet you there I think I a comment here okay let's just go take a look at it and not be judgmental but you see as you know the governing body what is what we could possibly do to get this sucker moving along like I said it's it's you're talking 20 good 20 30 years well Mr Miguel couldn't we send them like a letter of like complaint letter of like you have to take action you know complaint from the B is that possible yeah we can do that we can list the violations and send them um a notice of violations if they don't act you pull them into court I we haven't done that yet I'm assuming or we don't know okay so the other reason I came was infrastructure and I had no idea about that thing at the beginning but uh on 13th to 12th on E Street when it rains the water just it's like a river it flies down on the West Side uh and because there I guess there's no sewer on 13th I spoke to um public works you know a few times over the years and it was it was bad but now it's it's beyond now you're talking four or five ft from the curb straight water when it rains and then when it stops raining today there's still water there okay we're talking like a week after a rain um and I also have water that builds up for years R lab across the street again on the west side he complained I think for 20 years to get rid of the mosquitoes the water that was stagnant that sat there and when they finally redid 12th Avenue they were lovely enough to clear his side and put it on my side so now it just sits on my side of the street and um there's got to be something that can be done to make water flow especially East Street is worse than mine it's right by the um Baptist Calvary Church on the 13th right there and I mean when you get out of the car I have tenants you get out of the car you're stepping into water you can't get anything out of the trunk of your car because you open it up you're standing in water and it's it hasn't rained you know in a week so what they used to do public works because they knew certain spots were horrible they would send the street sweeper more often than the scheduled days to move it along or get that smell out or sometimes they even have to bring stuff to dump into the water a scent to so that you wouldn't smell like a muuk I guess it is I don't know what it is it's just disgusting like a swamp so they would dump like strawberry stuff sometimes just to give it a different smell but it is a a place for mosquitoes it is all that other stuff but the main thing is can we figure something out or what the problem is on 13th Avenue and again we've been patient this isn't something new for the last 20 years or whatever when they did 13th Avenue it's a holding tank I'm told that there's no place for the water to go it just bubbles up and goes down the street and sits so when we're talking about all this new building that we have to do and comply with or whatever it's there's places in town that where I'm not the only one that has it this is in other places also that the water will just sit there and it's because the town is old and the infrastructure is old so I'm saying and I was trying to say before is we need to fix what we have problems with right now and when you start adding to it it's it's you're we're we're setting oursel up for disaster and I I understand the other thing one other thing they were saying about I I don't really want to cut you short but you're well beyond the five minutes so just wrap it up say if I own the block which I do I can sell that block to a builder and they can put up could they put up all these things these these buildings I I that's what I was confused with I don't know I what what between 12 and um and 11th on D Street so if I sold somebody all my properties they would potentially be able to come and build tow houses there to and then have to fill this up with that's that's what I saying can anybody do this yeah that's creepy okay that's until we meet Our obligation is that correct and that that's the the problem of kicking the can down the road is that we've lost the opportunity to preserve um the master plan the way that we have it currently and it's very frustrating and all of your questions are valid and just as upsetting to us um as it is to you about the water problem maybe we can get uh our engineer JY to to take a look over there and see what could be done with with the street that area yeah we discussed that a little bit Yeah but maybe temporarily he can come up with a solution take a look at that okay thank you any other comments 1000 River radue um before I get into this what I wanted to talk about as to your question about when we get done with the stage three and four with the affordable housing are we done the answer to that is no we're not done they'll come up with something else and that and they they will tell you stage four has been superseded there'll be it stage five or whatever wording they put on it it's never going to end never this is the state we kept talking about just one other thing here the Constitution I imagine what was being said was the state constitution constitution of New Jersey I don't knowre just said Constitution it's the state constitution yes okay but this is this is so far beyond the the Constitution of the United States it's it's laughable but whatever it is what it is uh now last meeting Mr Mayor you spoke about the the what you call you've never heard of of the geese situation and being uh eradicated so you you you've never heard that in everything it's always you cannot get rid of it it will always be with you as far as this pestilence and everything and to a certain extent I agree with that however as we did have a conversation about this not I'm not talking about the conversation last last uh meeting a few months ago and I said and I looked it up I did a little homework I said I I'd like to guas them now I also told you at that time that it was done in Ed and uh New Jersey and they don't have a problem with it anymore he says this mayor here uh Michael J mcparland said that they they don't have the problem they only have about seven geese there they're not but they did about a couple hundred they did gas a couple hundred they don't you know it's it's done I mean we keep using this word humanely they're not humans we're the humans we don't go around with baseball bat beat their brains out we just do it they go to sleep and they're dead also I found something else besides Edge Water interestingly enough Spring Lake did it they gas geese and everything and at Lake KO they don't have the problem we have it at Su Lake also let me say this about the uh I think is with the dogs and everything the dog will work to a certain extent however the dog has to be the second thing or the third thing you do after after you eradicate the actual problem which would be with us we got it's over 100 geese and it's pretty bad problem and as soon as you get rid of 3/4 or even more of of the by gasing then the dog can be successful not only then but not not originally the dog won't won't be able to handle it or even a group of dogs everything it's getting back to that uh Edgewater the reason that that plane a few years ago ditched in the uh in the Hudson was the geese it was the geese now we're talking about people if that solenberger the uh the pilot hadn't been as good as he had those people might have died because of the geese because of the geese this idea of humanity and everything it's fine everybody likes it but but once you go too far with it then you're doing something wrong and that's what we're doing wrong here nobody likes it do the job you're supposed to do but there's another area here that you if you don't want to do it and I can see that you might not want to do it and you you refuse to take action and everything put it on the ballot make it a question on the ballot and let the people decide rather than just sit here and have the same thing every few months and everything problem keep going Jean who did not hear L he said something that interesting he worked on a f I worked on a farm too when I was a boy and everything you're not supposed to be walking around the street with the with these uh the shower shoes on and everything supposed be walking around the street with regular shoes on like a like a an adult and everything that's why they that's one of the big reasons it's a gross situation and people walk in their house that way and everything so just think about this I have a bunch of these things anybody would like to to look at them just ask me for them I'll give you them if you'd like to look at them I'll give them to you that's it thank you any other comments yes sir Neil sh 4 104th Avenue I am one of the residents who is thrilled by the garbage cans being installed at Silver Lake Park it's like beyond my wildest dreams so was at least a dozen cans it's amazing so I like to thank the mayor and Council DPW administrator everybody I to me 27 years in town this is the single greatest Improvement to Belmar in 27 years it's really great thank you for your I'd also like to thank the mayor and former mayor wer for working together before you came into office to put the garbage cans in the park at uh Fifth Avenue and D Street two garbage cans and the pet waste Station so thank you for that I take advantage of those H along with you it's a fixation my ail may remember the topic of the first petition from your first meeting as Burl clerk garbage cans there was no garbage can at the end of 4th Avenue I made a petition and uh now there's two garbage cans on the west side of 4th Avenue and a a garbage and recycling receptacle on the other side so things are really looking up in bmar going to make the other sections of town jealous so don't say too much okay I got for show and this is uh honey locust these are growing out of the the ground around Silver Lake and I consider them to be an obnoxious and dangerous plan because you know there are big thorns on this now I don't know why I I attended my first meeting of the environmental Committee in many years last month and I brought up uh why should we not eradicate this and there was a lot of things said nothing happened so unfortunately uh Council M Donovan isn't here uh she would maybe remember better what it was said why I would like to I would like permission to cut these down to the ground tomorrow morning because there's going to be April 27th the clean up around the lake the environmental commit is inviting people children and you could really cut yourself in these things you could you could take an eye out it's nasty also some people uh are not able to make a ail 27th and we'd like to start cleaning the lake as soon as possible so there are several of us who want to uh do a pre- cleanup this coming Saturday morning meet at the heisen Pavilion gazebo excuse me gazebo and uh c m Donovan and Committee Member uh lip and cot both told me they like the idea and just clear it with DPW so we could have uh pick up the garbage arranged so that would be this coming Saturday if that's all right have to check with with DPW as far as picking it up I don't have an issue with people picking up garbage around the lake just be careful you don't fall in when you get to the edge I would actually like to come to that cuz I can't make it there on the 27th and I wanted to participate and I'm not going to be available so I will meet there what time well I don't like to set my alarm Cloud but whenever I all right maybe you can email me at J kar.com and give me an idea and I'll spread the word sound good I I would like to run the The Cutting of the of the uh the honey locust just let me run it by the environmental commission before we start okay cutting anything down okay okay and if the high from gazebo is tilting to one side maybe the bur should have a few heis come over there and lift it up point taken thanks thanks Neil any other comments you brought up the ordinance for the shade tree committee I wasn't sure about what it was for uh is there a fine now or a charge to take trees down and I wanted to take advantage because J mcder is here and um years ago on the board when somebody came to the board we had to asked them if they took trees down on property to replace the trees and we had talked I think many months when I first came here about a follow through list when something is approved on the board to follow through to make sure everything that the board requested was done and so trees were one of them and if people could not or did not want the trees put back because their additions or something were not you know was going to take up the space it was almost like a tree Bank where they um the Builder or whoever the person the applicant would come and they would say we will donate 10 trees to the burrow so we had a good supply of trees uh and money coming in to constantly be putting new trees into town and I recently took pictures uh the other day and posted them because For the First Time trees we had planted in town years ago they are magnificent on many of the streets and we had blooming trees which the Sha tree never used to allow you to have blooming trees and the cherries the CR uh crab apples and the pears on certain blocks are magnificent so I to know Jay if that's something that as the chairman if they can uh follow through with doing that because when people get a house they get something approved and they come in they wipe these lots of everything there's nothing left they put the house up and then they put a couple shrubs if we're lucky back and I think that also has to do with a lot of the extra water we've been having throughout the burrow so that something thank you Adis any other comments okay a motion to close the public session motion second in favor