##VIDEO ID:l1L-7jYd53k## at this meeting of the library Board of Trustees was sent by email to our official newspapers the Asbury Park Press and the co-star please stand for the pledge Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all mic well was coming unless something changed arold won't BR pres here casy she be here darling present joh Mike is expecting he is expected he told make his comments so hopefully all right we have a mute approval of the October 11th minutes I'll second it second favor any corrections I guess we didn't that I I did look at in fact I did print mine I just had one question question and it wasn't really a big thing I know we said the quick approval of the chimney was appreciated but I think we had already done it had we done it before just a thank you okay just one okay that was the only question I had all right uh Dave is GNA go next okay Barry is here so um he's available if we have any questions because we're going to bring up the topic of the uh Fitness classes and whether there should be a charge for non-residents um Jerry thank you I contact the attorney and gave me the opinion that the library absolutely can charge non-residents for um any events um so we have that documentation if anyone wants um his long page uh analysis of it I can send it to you if you're interested but um we definitely can do that so that um that's up that's up to the board um when I first came to the um working here I a lot of my communication was with the state board and their opinion is that we shouldn't do that but um in talking to other directors and in talking to our attorney the the thought is is that's kind of the state because they're looking at the entire State rather than looking at our community um I think we received about $2,000 out of 800,000 um towards our budget from the state so I think it's not that we don't listen to the state but we should make decisions based on what's best for our uh Community I'm not saying that we should charge I'm just giving you that that we can in statute it talks about things that you can charge but it doesn't say what you can or cannot charge it just says that you can you can charge fees uh and you can charge for copies but it doesn't say that you can't charge for anything else um so the thought that I have or the thought that I did have that I brought up to you was um we have two days Tuesdays and Fridays where the uh Fitness events or Fitness classes were started as Library events got too large here went down to Taylor and the idea was in using Taylor that we would work with recreation in collaboration right now the library is paying for all of the fitness uh instructors and Recreation is just charging for their four classes and we are not charging for our four we do consistently right bar get people residents that ask why why is it that we charge for some and not for others and we explain to them well these started as Library events and that um the other one started as uh Recreation um so my thought is we have Barry here uh good Mike Mike's here here so that's good for this uh discussion um and I think we have three three options this is my thought one is keep it the way we have it which is there's no charge for Tuesday and Friday classes um Barry is down there pretty much all the time for those for those classes so if you think about the $200 that we're paying for the non um Fitness classes that really pays he does about seven or eight hours for our classes so at $30 an hour seven or eight hour you know it's it's it's really we're paying he does the paperwork he um he is down there um so it's not really that we're just giving it to wreck because wreck is the the only time I'm down there is when he's off we just cover one another sometimes um so we could keep it the same the way it is we could have a payment to Recreation like we do for DPW which is a flat rate to the town or it could be considered a recreation event supported by the library and there's a $5 um charge like for the other classes so there's really kind of three options and I know I've brought this up before but I promise I won't bring it up again this will be our final decision so uh but I just looked at as an opportunity for money to be brought in for recreation as revenue for recreation um but I do I do understand and it's it it it's not a black and white situation because of the collaboration with the library um it's a little gray so um just any questions for Barry he's here uh any thoughts on this side my opinion is I think we should charge just reading in the in the coar every Thursday other towns you know uh it says uh non-resident uh $20 Wall Township uh has their Club their senior club and if you're not a Walltown president they charge you 10 or1 or $15 to join so all these towns are are joining my feeling is that we should charge that's the way I feel and that's going to go to Recreation correct that's right I me that we were Jerry and I were talking about that we would need to figure out how that works with the it's considered miscellaneous rather is it okay so it goes into general fund oh it does okay so the money that money that comes in now that goes in okay misscellaneous okay that's that's my my feeling I feel that we should so whether it's going direct or miscellaneous you feel correct correct is there any way to to put in something budget wise where we're expecting a certain amount towards miscellaneous that goes towards Recreation is that or it's just no generally miscellaneous is they call non-anticipated black ho it's not it's not F that you normally would anticipate because you never know how many right bar some like like some some classes know like Cher yoga for example you know one one week I'll have I'll bring in 135 bucks because we have a lot of people and then last week you know it was a small a smaller crowd there no no set um the reason why I I brought up to to to Dave because I had a few residents come up to me and ask you know why why are you know for like the certain events cu the way it started is I charged everybody because I had to pay for the instructor so I had to make sure I was covering covering payroll you know cuz some some weeks were know we light than we others at least I know we always we're always in the black um and then you know Mr Homan came in the library you know you guys saw you know which I appreciate you know picking up the the the fee for the for the instructors um what and I think what what we have right now we have a great a great thing working you know you know we help each other out you know we help our know basic everything is for our residents um you know a lot of our non-residents come because their towns don't offer it um so that's why I bought bought up to Mr homman where because I I had to ask him because residents were reaching out ask asking why are they coming for free for certain classes and if we go to other towns they're charging us so I was like no I'll ask Mr hman and that's that's where we are today so my personal feeling is I you know I would like to see it charged for everybody just the consistency of it the only issue that I have now is the fact that it would be going into a miscellaneous fund so if I knew for sure that it was going to go to Recreation yeah where I think it should then I'm comfortable with that but for it to go into the abist to the town I have a problem with that the town could have it dedicated 100% to Recreation and then just pull the same amount out of the recreation Budget on the back I'm not sure how it works like each each class has it like like our real classes have have a a deposit code and my other classes have a deposit code and all my other recents have deposit codes where I think everything just goes into the general fund and like you said it could be allocated you know like with my budget when I ask for ask for when I request budget a budget for like money items but yeah I mean I think I think there had been a philosophy in the past that things like wreck had to be basically paying for themselves okay and that made it very difficult I think because then you had to charge everyone because you know their salaries wages all the other expenses it was almost like a separate little budget item and I think I think when when we came in uh in 2023 I didn't really see the value of that because you know there was issue I remember distinctly with the child care uh they we were charging people for oh the Toler time was that was it Toler time or yeah todler time or whatever then I was like why are we you know if some people can't afford it then they're out you know and I think it was a I said this is a a town service that we should be giving and you know why are we charging for it uh and I thought it was the type of thing where the entire budget you know could absorb the small amounts that we were talking about so I mean I think having a dedicated fund is like a double wedge sword as Barry said because then it's going to go back to the thing like you know well you know you can only spend what you make and and that's not going to give us uh you know a really robust I think Recreation program so I mean I think it's I I like the idea that it's it's going to be consistent with what other towns do too plus you could also look at it in the view that you know the borrow is not charging the library for the use of the tail Pavilion either so I mean you know it's like one hand washes the other and I think it does make sense for residents to get the feeling that things are consistent you know if they're paying for if out of out out of town is they paying for rec programs you know then why aren't they paying for the library programs so I mean I think that's kind of like a little bit of the history and reason for the for the U the charging you uh like Jerry was saying being consistent with everything I think that's a good point because that'll alleviate the problem why this and why not this and then you know uh just to be consistent with everything you know charge or don't charge but you know but uh I think we need to uh alleviate that problem and be consistent Right Down the Line with everything I mean it it's a good it's a good idea to and a worthy thing to say well we want the W to get the money you know but that's really not you know in reality is you know the preparation of the budget you know Rec could just be cut in budgetary funds you know by the council and that would you know doesn't matter how much money they're bringing in it doesn't necessarily mean that that's what they're going to be able to spend or it might be it's probably going to be way less than what they're going to need need to run a viable recreation department so you know I think we want to move we meaning the council wanted to move away from that you know like everybody has to make enough money to support themselves idea so and you think that would be the case if there was a dedicated fund I don't think it really accomplishes anything Library Recreation all it is is a field good measure yeah a line item on the book up here and then it's a negative somewhere buried underneath yeah so can it show I mean would Barry be able to do what I think you said it was a deposit code or some like in a code for the for the class so that we would know there are there are exactly what is being in because every time I every time I deposit I know I turn I put into my ledger I make a ledger or deposit slip for the for the front office they log it in they put the code like as an example know Cher Y is R20 so they put goes into R20 so if anyone pulls it up they can see okay well yoga bought in this much money at least that's how I think it should work but if not you know I keep a LGE of what I bring in every every week so it just seems to me that if you change something you should just be able to say is there is everything that that the money goes for adequately covered is there any need specifically for that um Recreation has or anything like that I mean are we trying to fund something that isn't adequately funded at this point yeah I see what you're saying I I think um I just know there's this is years ago in my previous position um I just remember Recreation having a difficult time getting things and the superintend and the school district would be helping with the recreation and I I just was trying to help you know that situation but I understand where you're saying my thought would be would the council consider you know for the council to know that okay now there's no know there's about $20,000 that used to be paid out for recreation for about 10,000 that's being paid by the library now we have additional money coming in that would just be considered when the budget's done in the future do you know what I mean I don't I know you can't consider anything you want you know but but that's just my that's just my thought that and I'm I'm not a voting member I'm just bringing up an idea David what are the other public libraries do with regard to programs you have any for whether or not other public libraries charge for programs they do they do yeah um so for example um certain authors that that come in certain programs I would speak to Spring Lake and and uh Seager I know Avon had a fitness class this summer and Sheila said um they were only residents that came but if non-residents came they would have charged um just small not as large as our classes so it's um but um but some some libraries do do not um I'm not sure Anita might be able to tell I don't think Bradley charges for their classes do you know Anita if they charge uh not for like the children's classes or anything what about Fitness I haven't yeah I haven't been to their Fitness classes I think they they might if I made the call I think it was Fitness but um it's really very mixed and also it depends on what type of Library it is I think we always have to compare ourselves to Municipal libraries where we're receiving tax dollars not compare ourselves to b or Manasquan that's partially nonprofit doesn't receive as much money you know our example should be with seagar Spring Lake Bradley ourselves um those are all Municipal libraries with the onethird of the millage and they all do yes Mike they do charge sometimes for something sometimes for not I I look at it is we don't charge for our cultural events um my point is where do we draw the line yeah right I know where do we draw the line yeah now does our does our millage come from Lake Como and Belmar or just just Belmar so Lake Como would then be paying to come to our program so that that would be that would be some right now they do not charge we do not charge Lake for wck I can't how we how would we justify that if there not if if our contention is that this is should be a benefit to the taxpayers of Belmar because they're in fact taxpayers how do we not so we brought that up at the last meeting that uh we should consider you know um charging for library cards even for Lake KO because it was charged before it was around Co right where it stopped yeah and then we haven't gone back to that and right now Lake KO um they're able to actually go to the county system for free because they pay into the county system com so that's something we need to discuss as well my concern that I brought up last um last meeting was making sure that the kids still had free access which they would yeah and we've always done that correct yes we've always gotten the cards if they either went even if they were at St Rose and they lived in Neptune City or Neptune correct y with the libraries that charge some of the events does the library keep the money then at that point yes they do there's um there is one library that works with Recreation like us though and I don't I don't remember which one it was but it's either seagar Spring Lake I think it's spring uh Seager Spring Lake uh that does similar where they work with rack um and there is a charge and I believe that goes to R um so the other the other obviously option would be to for the keep the money but then for the burrow to charge you for the use of the SP well we can't we can't do that actually yeah legally we're not allowed to pay a public entity for space yeah so that was our that's why we wanted to pay for the that's why we wanted to pay for the instructors uh and call it a collaborative effort can can we charge and we can't just pay make a payment into Recreation like the library keeps the money and then we can pay for like we pay the amount of money for uh DPW we could do the same thing for services for recreation a yearly amount that we wanted to to pay and we could look at about the amount of money that would be coming in issue is basically if even if we keep the money as a library it's Ely going back to the general fund because when was the last time that we actually spent up the budget this this year we could potentially use our budget if we were able if we were able to put the money into Capital reserves we could actually get to our budget but I when was the last time that we've actually spent up to our budget ever well not as long no no no no no I understand I'm not I'm not being critical of board my point is even if we collect the money into our cers at the end of the day it goes right back to the bar the same situation the same Circle situation that's option b or the second option that you were mentioning so there's no there's no way the money can go into a like the library keeps the money and there's no way the money can go into a recreation fund that's or donate it to the recreation we can't donate the money but we can we can pay for the services like we pay for DPW and would that go directly to Recreation or would that go to the municipal fund that would go right into the general f everything comes out of the general fund everything everything comes out of the fund and then you then you and all the leadership of town identifies what line items that bucket gets distributed to well it all goes into one bucket and then yes you know there's lots of holes in yeah all the fees the costs the marina fees all that stuff is all counted for it goes into the into the general fund and that's what reduces the tax rate because at the end of the day you know at some point we're told well we need this much amount of money and we got this much already in our Municipal uh in our miscellaneous revenue and the rest of it has to be done through taxation so that's those are the two in in essence the two big buckets that bring Revenue into the town the miscellaneous and then the tax taxation of real property yeah so um you know there's very few instances where money is ear marked for particular I don't I don't you legally do that well actually we do we do for salary and wages the the charge for the DPW comes out of our salary and Wages that's PID that helps pay for one salary for DPW so it could we could do it where it would help his Sal would help that budget we could do it that way but it's just moving money really is yeah I have a question for for Barry in terms of um in terms of the three days that you do have patrons that come that do not have to pay at this point so for the two days that you're considering that they might be paying how much of an inconvenience or how much of a trouble is it going to be for you to sit there and look at okay these are residents these are non-residents these are not not at all CU every all my sign signning sheets um at least on the rec side has resident and the blank space is non-resident um it it wouldn't be a problem to go in and do it for the other ones go through the waivers together and look at the address and we could sit together if Chang just ask for the know that what two of the classes I think Sherlock yoga's got really large oh yeah yeah that's a big class how many res we have enough class would you say just cting how many non-residents in each class about 50 it's always about 50 even the cult oh okay so so do word problem too so so so for example the the taiichi usually has about 25 so about 12 or non-residents the the so we're looking at turning these programs into not only offset cost but to generating profit see that's no we're generating profit at that point we're paying 50 bucks for a we're paying 50 bucks for a teacher and we're bringing in 60 it's a it's a profit driven Endeavor on its own right I stand by my my belief that the program I think the programs of the free public library should be free and I specifically do not think we should be um making profit off of these programs as a free public library if the if the if the if the recreation department wants to do that that's that's that's the town I think as a public library I think that kind of deviates from our mission and I I'll say um I don't have a problem charging for an incremental cost increase you know like I like I use the example U that there was supplies that we needed for that particular class okay it's it's a user tax for lack of a better term but to to use a blanket charge particularly to the point where potentially driving profit off of the deal just seems um outside of our outside of our mission I and I'm sensitive to uh serving the taxpayers of BU you know I'm very sensitive to that I just think as a library it's it's something that we should resist and then my question would be why is it just the fitness that we're charging for should we be charging per book should we be charging for people to come up and warn themselves now those are somewhat bombastic examples but at what point what what is the process that we determine what we charge for you know I don't I don't know that you're capturing all the expenses so go run running you know an event no I I I quite so I mean I don't know how much profit you're really make it when you look at you know is probably setting up the chair we run the program we run the program for five patrons right it doesn't cost us anymore to run it for 20 per say some 50 someone saying that the cost whether there were five or 20 people there is the same that's and that there's no if we go to 51 and all of a sudden they don't fit and we have to open up another have to open up another section that's what we have to Cher yoga that's when we talk about whether or not we want to expand that program or whether we want to restrict it let ask what might be a dumb question is why isn't Recreation running those programs from the start why is it that the library is running chair yoga does run I I I'm in charge of of the all around Fitness the two chair the two yoga classes the Zumba class um and then and then um the library was going to pay for the instructor so that's what they did and then when then when the classes got too big here for the library they came up to T Pavilion and um I just worked it out with Dave saying you know I can be up here and cover the classes for you if you want it's not so what classes are actually what are the titles of the classes that we're actually looking to charge Tuesday Tuesday and Friday what are the class there yeah it's uh it's um Tai on Friday and strength and balance on Friday and on Tuesday it's healthy step in strength and balance so there's two strength and balances so there's four that used to be here got too large went down there and really just say you know Barry has has really done has really I guess my question is why isn't why did can't the Burl just run those classes oh I mean we could then the library has nothing to do with it well the only problem would be that um we we are yeah I mean but we still should be supporting with the instructors because that's how the residents are getting it for free you know what I mean cuz we're paying for the the $50 instructors right now pay for $50 instructors what seems like we're trying to get you know like a square peg into a round hole if if they're if we're already conducting physical the physical education type classes then why not just have the burrow do all of them I this is we don't get into and then we won't get into the Dilemma of charge we don't charge you know can I just I just clarify newest on the board my understanding of how this evolved was basically uh Library identified some enrichment programs that the town wasn't particularly interested in pursuing and we had them in here as part of our program to offer enrichment to our patrons and we want up getting I'll say enough engagement that we outgrew this space correct is that correct so the next viable space was to use the Pavilion which we can't rent from a public entity right right um so we worked out more or less cost sharing with regard to some of the programs so that we could migrate the programs we had here over there so they're basically at this point since they're established they're basically Recreation programs you know we started them we all start I was board wish I was it's great it's a great never um but at this point it looks and feels very much like a recreation progr let me explain something uh there was a period of time when we were using the community center over 7th Avenue where we were having and we were actually charging $2 a person for everybody residents and non-residents it's collecting $2 ahead to come in for yoga chair yoga and things like that we were at the time this is before you were talked right at the time near the end of when we had the the place there we were informed by burough officials at the time that we were not doing it properly we were not supposed to be charging money at all and then we had to put a stop for that and it was at that time where the suggestion to have have wreck take over some of the classes um and that was and that was switched over that was in the previous administration and so that's where Barry took on some of them he had to re-recruit Brenda yell to become the instructor and find the other instructors to get them okay and it was since that time that his that has evolved that a deeper cooperation between the library and and the department as Dave described uh came about part of Louis's story that he forgot is that the previous administration shut everything down everything was gone and it was a battle to restart so I mean his story is correct but you have to remember the amaz like abusive shutdown like in one day Brenda had a class of 50 people and the next day she was like you can't come here anymore so that was a you know that is a backstory of fear when it comes to programs because not you but you know who knows it I mean literally they were shut down in a couple hours yeah I agree with you that that obviously wasn't a correct thing to do but I mean just more fundamentally you know I think I have a question is should the library be running programs that are really based in Recreation I mean from a Phil philosophical point of view you know should the library be running uh you know chair yoga and you know it's not like computer you know learn a computer or you know well we're not other libraries other libraries do a large number of libraries offer but they have space they have I interrupt just to answer that question I wrestle with that as well and I look at it and one of the markups I made on our a mission statement on our strategic plan was enrichment it's not just necessarily about learning alone you know when you go take a computer class you're you're improving yourself you're expanding your horizons when you're doing a chair yoga class you're doing the same things you know so that's how I would justify the activity because I wrestled with that myself I said this makes no sense why why why would we do this and I kind of Justified it in my mind that that does fall within our mission is to to help people improve themselves and how they experience the world um particularly if it's I'm going to say an underserved Niche you know who won't come to Recreation but will come to the library who wouldn't go to Recreation but will come did come here using the past tense now I think the programs are established to the point where if the town has an interest in running them you know it would it would make more sense because it's the board here has proven that these are are something that's in demand and something wanted by the Pat I mean I think that I think you know going back to the beginning the only thing that really has has brought this up is the fact that people have wondered why you know they're paying for recreation programs and they're not paying for library programs I mean that's really the starting point of all this I don't think any of us care whether we charge or not really but it's just you know do we want that consistency or do we just want to leave it the way it is say well that's just the way it is can I can I ask a question about um when we talked about you know this this option two right which we've realized now this flat rate to Recreation can't happen but are there things like um St Rose pays to repace the um the floor are there things like that that the library can say you know what each year we're going to give a certain amount to rehab something either in the gymnasium or to get more basketballs whatever that we can give a flat rate that has to do with a a cost so for example like DPW we're paying for really one position that then helps us with cutting the grass we can pay a flat rate to help with salaries for recreation we can do that so that is a that's something that the board could do and to me I like that because it makes it more these are wreck programs that are supported by the that are supported like by the library that makes more sense to them because they really are Rec programs now um and um it's just that they were started as library programs you know um and it does not make sense to have them in this facility um and I can tell you I there were some classes that were going on here that when I wasn't here I wouldn't have on this floor I don't think it's a it's a good idea for safety reasons chair yoga F but then we couldn't fit in here right so um I I like that idea Maria the the the flat we would just have to decide on what we're paying now and maybe and if you were in agreement to that and the board was in agreement to that and then their wck programs and then they can charge right I don't think that addresses should about well you I don't care not the library yeah I I don't like the library name attached to a revenue generating approach and with regard to I don't know why we need to as a board I know why we need to necessarily tie it to wreck or have our name attached to it at all I do feel there are Services provided by the burrow that we should really look at um whether or not we're offering Fair compensation under our operations you know so I'm not saying that oh my God keep everything here it's just that if if this is something that's really going to be a wreck program it should be a wreck program and we should disassociate ourselves with that but as a caveat and unrelated to this topic but kind of tangential is there are Services provided by the town in our operations that we should look opportunities to to pay for and and to your point Mar you mentioned that the I guess St Rose has the floor let me get back $120,000 last year for the town to to use at their discretion there is there is already a history of the money coming out of the budget back to the town to offset the tax increase for sure so that Surplus that that that Surplus that we don't spend has gone back traditionally you know right with no strengths attached I Noone of we' like to see the library use more of that that budget but yes I think we're getting I think we're getting there think we're getting we getting there this year um but yeah I'm I'm whatever you you all want to do with this I'm I'm okay with it I think you know ultimately my concern would be for it to go in to if it's just going to go into the general fund and we're going to have people angry and it's not it doesn't look like it's ear marked for recreation for me that feels like I'm not sure you know I don't know that's not as attractive for for me but if it's something where we're able to you know make sure how much money is it a question more in accounting than you're it's G to cost you more money in accounting to bring it in so then then we'll generate it's how much coming in or if how much do we does the library pay for the instructors no how much would you be if you charged the nonresidents how much money would be going so Barry I'm guessing let's just say an average of uh there's four classes $50 a class 200 time 50 10,000 maybe might come in I have it if you need an accurate number I have that all on a leure for the next Mee my point is even if you earm Mar that number that's not going to be enough to run you know Recreation you know what I mean there still going to be a tremendous contribution it's not going move the dial you so and it's not going to move the dial on cost and the administrative cost to collect that money is going to probably cost more than that money bar is doing it now no no no I mean I mean on the back end when you make sure it's all the right spot in the books where's it's going moving around the general fund and is it the library's money is it your money by the time the accountant figures all that out you spend 100 bucks a week my point is the $10,000 if wor $10,000 is not going to be really that much of a contribution to the to Recreation to to really make a major or even a minor change in now you know y to to forall what what um Anita had said you know what I mean there's no way that that's going to be able to help and should that situation arise again Barry was there something you went you went like this yeah L was kind of uh touch Bas on it like when I first started everything was run through the library at the community center and that's you know when the other Administration came in they know like I said they said we were doing it illegally and then um yeah you know said we eventually eventually I I was able to get the programs under record you know we lost them I say we get them back like a couple years later um and then they've grown and then you know then like you know the library is running classes you know then moved everything up to Taylor so and and just so you know our attorney says that's absolutely incorrect it's not IL legal to charge so we have a couple of choices here have the fourth choice too we just look for a different venue take the town out of it for a your back available I I I I that is a viable Choice the the the issue being we're using a venue that we cannot pay directly for just just to make it just to make it quick um so it's only the four classes you guys that the library has like I like the all around fness the Z the classes all on the recreation if if you want the other classes to come to rec believe me I have no no problem with that at all the whole thing just story was just that I had presidents coming to me that's why and I bought the home about you know and I don't think it's it's an issue that the's looking for any compensation the way it is I just explained to participants that this is a library program charge you we're not going to charge you we listen if you if you want that you could leave it at that too you know it's not like you know the motivation is not from the burrow WIS right to do the it more and then for me I just was trying to help help recre right and I think the other thing to take into account is um any changes that are to be taken into a possibility would require us notifying the public and the best time of course would be the beginning of the year rather than saying oh it's going to start next week which oh yeah no yeah like dve and I talked you know I would give we wouldn't start anything until the new year and I would you know have the paperwork I would email I have a whole email chain for each each separate class you know I always notify people changes anything so I mean they would be War for war um the only thing I know the question came up about Lake com um I know like for our students at Lake Como with they with them going to Belmar they pay the in town rate um for all of our programs um so that was always you know that's why I always threw them in as residents to with my programs like like the senior programs um like when we do our senior Bingo programs I always include them um you know they don't have they don't they don't have a library or anything like that to go to so Chanel Les rich I would be worried if we didn't have a policy that clearly spelled something like that it would be arbitrary and capricious those are L some Les's favorite words education arit capricious that's more about like personality about everything I use that I use that in in no all forms of government work that we do no I get it but yes having we need to have a rationale behind any action to take so that it is defensible yeah Loma wants to be a separate you know municipality until it comes to things that bmore runs and then they want to be considered that's that's basically the way it goes you know they want to break on the on the boxes at the beach you know you know and we have had people say why is it Belmar people have come to us and say why is it that Lake coma can go to wall and get and not have to pay 100 it's 100 bucks a year well it wasn't know it's still 100 and it was just because we started right during Co that we wanted to help people and it just never changeed back you it's a three quter so we voting on we're going to take a a head count or a tally mark as to how many you want to stay how many you want to pay W yeah thanks bar I'm sorry I said it was get out of here early thanks so is that the way that we're looking at it three options or stay as is see if we can get a line item that would go directly to wck or the third option all non-residents pay and it would be a wreck and it would be it would be W would give it to W be strictly W then Char and keep it in the library yeah or charge it and keep it in the library do that I think either of those line items are nice feel good line items but ultimately it ends back in the general fund yeah we give it to direct I think it ends up back in the general fund whether we keep it for ourselves I think it still RS back in the general fund so if we're making this decision I just think we need to be cognizant that this money isn't earmarked or specified for anything it goes to the general fund for the discretion of the bur that that's fair statements right M which isn't always going to be necessarily our Administration no corre so that's something to consider I don't know how that you know budgets fluctuate from year to year anyway Bas on priorities and and what have you so you don't know so really just do we keep it the same or do we have recck run run the events run the uh Fitness events and we continue to pay for the instructors I think so then the residents can be how many people have actually complained or made an issue of this there's there's a um you know how it builds yeah yeah it's just um I think what happened was there was some the classes that were I don't know why why I mean I thought it was just a great thing that the residents didn't have to pay and they were happy at one point you know and then it was some started saying well why are they paying for someon others and it just kind of started to build and and I thought maybe take a negative statement or comments and turn it into a positive and give money to W that was my thought you know broken so maybe we shouldn't fix it yeah if you want to keep it the same that's fine we could just continue to tell them their Library events that's I would I would my preference would be to keep it the same and offered as enrichment you know by having the larger numbers there we have a more uh involved class and we're able to justify running the program to Ser serve the larger numbers okay you know where we might put it on the cutting block if we didn't have as many people there you know we talk about some of our other programs that have fewer people and talk about them each year whether or not we keep those these classes could have the same feed if they didn't have the optic of serving as many people the flip side of that is I think we should charge everyone if we're going to charge anybody and taxpayers say well why should I be charged I'm a taxpayer I don't use those classes why should I pay for you to go there so you start you start to you start to to to's that could be the same thing with people with school I don't don't absolutely absolutely and that's why I think that's why we should keep the way it is I think you should keep too because I think once you CH yeah to go back yeah to that I think it's going to be difficult got it you know let's say three or four years from now and you're like oh you know all these Rec programs are getting cut and now you want to go back to offering free yeah you know how how you know I guess what I'm saying is the town really doesn't the town doesn't really need alls the $10,000 that we're going to get from not the additional income is not going to make a break the budget you know what I mean so it's like like you said why go through all the hassle and you can keep it the way it is we just have to deal explain to people that this is a library program and the money is you know is utilized for p of the library out of our mission that's it now if we have any non p i I could see charging a non Patron what we're talking about right no talking about we're talking about non resident patrons so a patron pays 50 bucks and they're a patron right 2 I see 25 and they're a patron you know so I don't mind charging a one time fee of $25 to use all of our services you know if you're not Patron and just coming in then I wouldn't mind philosophically charging yeah just so you know that's that that's pretty t that would be uh you know that would be time consuming in terms of like for example someone comes in and we'd say well it's $5 or it's you go to the library and you pay you know 20 come back next but that's you know if the that's just philosophical I think that is a bad idea you think that over complicates things for marginal to negative returns but philosophically I think we should offer for these things to our patrons as we would offer any other services the library has books computer stations warming in the cold weather all those Suite of services I feel this is just another one that we should offer to our that we we can offer to our patrons at this point for the other classes that Barry is in charge of that are have attendees that are non-residents are they being are they being charged but residents are all residents are free now because we are paying for all of the the um instructors which costs us you know it's about $10,000 a year for ours and 10,000 for R it's really not going to change if we if we keep everything the same that is nothing nothing changes I will never ask this question again I I a good question I I I really think it's a good question to ask because people are asking it and and I I wish that there were clearer ways to move a need you know to another need you know in our community and specifically Recreation but if we can't get it there where it's going to be specifically this is for this Children's Program or this is for you know this for our our senior citizens right now if we can't figure that out right now then maybe it's not worth it for right now but I don't think we should shut the door on this conversation forever I think I think it's going to come back and and it should really the only way I could figure that actually year mark the money is to funnel it through a nonprofit and they would have discretionary spending on what was allocated and as as I think Sharon pointed out just in conversations that we've had in the past um a donation of durable goods can sometimes be better than a doning issue of money you because ultimately the money just owns way back way back General okay okay so are we going to have a vote that we what you to do we should change we keeping it the way it is I don't think we need to vote we don't need to vote I just I just want to see that we should mention those three options again so that it's clarified and everybody knows keep keep the same if I keep the same it would be a a flat amount to to Recreation like we do for DPW or the third would be we the programs become Recreation um and then they can charge the $5 and we continue to support them I think we have to to be able to have the residents um participate Go for free so those would be the three options right everyone agree with that which one are we now we are at Tuesdays and Fridays are free for everyone the other classes are the residents the non-residents pay five and the residents those are Recreation program we wind up we wind up paying for the teachers because we can't paying for the instructors because we can't pay for the space correct correct correct so you can't directly pay for an asset so we're paying yeah and we're also paying um you know Bar's time too you know what I mean we're paying through the the instructors okay so this was a good 50 minutes I said I said five or 50 was a going here I know I nothing to do with this this was a discussion this was okay so um oh okay I'm I'm not actually with with the three options how do we do with three options I think what we do is take a vote and then if we have a majority that that wants to make a change and someone does a motion maybe I'll do it in reverse because then then we'll get to what I think is the ultimate okay so how many are in favor of having patrons pay and we pay recck zero okay how many are in favor of paying wck and it goes into the general fund this easy yes okay so how many are in favor of leaving it as it is and continuing with this meeting any extensions he's he's got okay all right there's no vot and we don't have to vote there's no vote no all right leis you're up all right that was short version your in debate we have uh had a great month of events um got a couple author times and well actually one author time uh the children's book fair was uh not as um attended as as I was hoping only had about 85 people flow through um maybe a little bit more here their give or take but uh several of the authors did make a uh some great sales that way um a lot of lessons learned from that that I'll be utilizing in the next Spring's Book Fairs in terms of promoting it in terms of of of uh doing other things to kind of drive more traffic to it um the Halloween movie night was uh was a great night we had about 45 people Al together kids and parents in there uh we learned that shorter movies are best you know um the The Nightmare Before Christmas was fine but it was just a little on the two long side so go for shorter ones next time you know probably you lost Virginia Brook we lost they started peeling other kids yeah yeah yeah so uh the Great Pumpkin Charlie Browns is probably be uh the live animal events were a huge success we had the Wolves had over 200 125 people there uh fantastic um the penguins which is just past Saturday had about 165 people there as well so we're anticipating similar numbers for this Saturday's um um reptiles with Lefty the owl um and uh so I've asked George to have more chairs brought over to Taylor Pavilion so we have more than a 100 there why do it seem like there were more than 126 at Dali it seemed like a lot more than well that's uh based on on the at the at the uh sign in sheets but there could have been some there were a lot of people came in that were not on the sheet I was there and there were a lot of I think she keeps track of that as well all I ask Susan yeah know but I know she tried writing down and then it was just like oh got to so we could we could have had but the the the feedback has been very very positive uh for dwali um several of our uh uh Indian Americans who were there uh were a a lot of them are brand new residents to Belmar moved here in the past year or two and they were absolutely thrilled that we were celebrating the wall um from what they tell me we're I think the only Diwali celebration of any significant size in this region so that kind of Drew a lot of people around it's one of the reasons why we were successful in that event uh all the I have a suggestion for for our any of these other events that we have food because there was a little problem that happened so when people were coming in through the registration area if they weren't seated already they got right online for food so as I'm trying to call tables there were people that were basically cutting in front so a suggestion might be that they come in through the far door or we moove registration to the far door in other words change up so that as soon as they're coming in they're not right getting right online for food okay it was great with the two lines that was a plus I think for those of us that were there it was a plus because then I was able to pretty much have okay your table goes there your table goes there worked out really well but as people were coming and there were a lot of comers that came in they were getting right online and then people at the table were like well they just walked in and I'm like I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm trying to keep it all we have some way as people check in they're instructed to please wait go grab and please wait something like that so we'll have to figure something sorry but that is definitely um one of the hiccups that we had that night uh luckily there was no other major hiccups really yes is there any way that you can put like a banner when we have the events outside that lets them know what's going on because there was there's a new uh Indian family that just happened to move for a house on Inlet and they just happen to be walking on the boardwalk and they were like oh what's going on and then they walked in and they were like oh you know so they were really happy about that I I did I did that Banner for the book fair uh a banner uh like that's to about $300 so we could do one specifically for D I'll probably maybe what I could do is I could do a generic one like a uh like a library cultural event uh going on something generic that can be across multiple events where are you getting your banners because much cheaper than that uh AER ahern's been you send for them has got them for years the problem is remember we have to go through the bur's purchase order system so have that well if you could tell us and then we can ask that vendor if they're willing to fill out the paperwork we could consider that that would be good anybody save so uh so the events was a huge success I'm really happy to see that the turnout was uh successful um a couple of things that I did different last year to help kind of Drive some of these numbers up is that um I actually took the time to email everybody who registered in advance uh a reminder for the event about 3 four days in advance and just ask them to RSVP if they were not going to come okay so this way they got the alert the reminder that that the event was coming and that resulted in a huge uptick in attendance so which was a big plus um the upcoming events that we have over here we have one more live animal event reptiles I mentioned we have two author times um one on November 23rd and one on December 7th the December 7th one is a one that we had scheduled some time ago but the author had some difficulty that unfortunately wasn't able to so we rescheduled it for this episode he said coming back um we have a Christmas and Hanukkah uh family holiday concert uh featuring Mr Ray on December 10th uh at Taylor Pavilion what time that's going to be at 6 p.m. uh and there's a family holiday movie night uh Christmas movie night uh on December 17th do you have time on that one that's probably going to be 600 p.m. also okay and here yes here at the library okay I've got upstairs do you want me to set him down yeah you close up yeah yes want to lock in there can you love we will combination I don't care what you do c I'll do it either way where's the holiday C that's going to be at Taylor Pavilion that's a Taylor okay and I spoke to the performer Mr Ray who we've had perform for us before uh he has a specific comp combination Christmas and Hanukkah uh music program what we doing and it's a and it's for all for all ages so what's the last thing the last thing is a SE this is something that uh we're working on here this with the belore elementary school choir and MMA High School choir and we're going to do a special Christmas performance with four seniors only uh out of brunch time so the idea is is to use the B I spoke to Jimmy um to use the buses from the schools now they have they pick up um you know in the morning and then they have to start their runs at like 1:30 so between 900 and 11:30 we have to get the kids down to tailor they have to do their performance and then we have to go pick up we're going to try to pick up the seniors at the senior center bring them down or any seniors that need to be um picked up I'll have to get a check with uh the town there with insurance on this before we do this but um and then bring the seniors down and then when they're done get the kids back to the school then have the buses come back and then get the seniors back to we're first going to see if we can fill them up from the senior center so people that normally maybe couldn't make it we're going to try to use the resources from the from the buses with there's two or three buses now three and um I'm working on that now now and it's probably going to be the it's either the 17th or the 18th but I'm looking at the Holiday night now I'm thinking maybe be better to have it the 18th so we don't have two things on that day that's going to be down at Taylor and it's going to be the the chorus from Belmar and the chorus from Manan High School just for the seniors during the day during the daytime brunch like like a brunch maybe cookies it's going to be it's probably going to be like 11 it be an hour hour and a half but I'm working that I have to double check Mas on to make sure so is it just the senior building no no no but I just wanted to use the buses just I just and the only other thing I have to add on is obviously now we're winding down the number of events uh for the end of the year uh I'll be turning my attention to uh events into the new year uh going forward so I already put my two cents in for Harriet Tubman if we can get the same woman I had last year she was phenomenal and I just wanted to say to L thank you very that was one heck of a function there w i mean what you put together and uh it was great as all your cultural events are but this is really phenomenal really did one heck of a job thank you thank you thank you very much yeah I have a I have a clap next to okay Darlene all right so our budget amount is [Music] $864,000 4274 waiting to pay the vendor is $ 32,42 which spend a date and waiting to pay the vendor is $49,988 74 um with the balance leaving us with [Music] turn that was going to come out of capital reserves so it's not so our capital reserve account right now is 377,000 589 so that's we' talked about trying to save 100,000 a year and build up the money to consider an addition on that so and did you want to mention about the chimney yeah the chimney is complete and um it's a whole that hasn't I don't think that's ever been ever been done um so I don't know how long that when that was a long there but uh a long time yeah um but it's in it's in very good shape There Were Trees right now it was actually growing not in the um the pipe it was growing actually um kind of in the um where there was water coming in through the side um and they did do cracking yeah so grow a pipe because it burns in the winter yeah so it so it you know they they were clear saying there's no chance of any problem right now but if you continue to let it go which is something for us to think about because you know the outside of the building the envelope has to be you done I know we're talking about the the bathrooms first but we have to um think about um securing that too there's a lot of things we have to we have to do but with you know that's going to be your decision on whether we do it through the budget Year bye and not and not go into the reserve to save um but did we discover you said there was water was that issue that's going to be worked on tomorrow actually we think that that's I was surprised that something to do with the boiler it only happened once there's a pipe that comes here I thought it would be something to do with the AC but it's not uh so environmental eror see the damage damage kind like the fire alarm thing is yeah so it leaked once and I thought oh jeez it's going to be consistent but it it happened once and then it hasn't since but they're going to be cutting that that open taking a look tomorrow um is it one of the water pipes the boiler so maybe it's just condensation that happened I mean why would haven't been using the boiler have we we haven't so during it happened during the summer I don't know the guy referred to some kind of venting device up there where the water or something vents out but he didn't it wasn't too clear cuz he wasn't sure exactly where it all went and the the railings out front just so you know we've um we have the purchase order the vendor has it we're pushing that person I know that that company is also doing the railings around the uh piano so both Billy and I were at there knocking on the us and we're fighting to see who we got the rail you got they're up they not up but they're there oh okay okay are these just the hand rails down the center of the St there's there's two that are really loose one the center and one on the one side but the center one top Center is the the main one has to be redone pulled out I used that one when we had that just going back to that uh that did that have to be inspected at the at the end so what happened is the the gentleman who did the inspection from the insurance company right communicated with the company that did it and um I told him what we did I said do you have to come back and he said no I'll fill it out to the state right now cuz there wasn't any danger at the time he asked me he said you want me to put it in the report I said yeah put it in cuz he actually didn't even notice the right the growth coming out and he said you want me to put it in and I said sure I didn't know then it would go to the state and I a second you said it was five our local inspector didn't have to come no but he came our fire inspector Fire Marshal came and and inspected as well we had three different inspections yeah for safety yeah yeah okay uh my report is very short this time um our donor for the bench was very very pleased she saw it before she went to the devali Celebration was very H very happy so I'm pleased that that all worked out was months of planning but yes it all worked out um she's requested what she will be paying for there'll be a little plaque in the front because in the back is where her husband's name is so she wanted a little something in the front just small and then uh additionally something over here um she is still adding some more um positive things that are going to be helping with down here with technology um and the employees are working on that and then um we already talked about LS uh I noticed the Pringle tree is out there do we have to get water make sure is it's looking a little weak well they have the um person that came in they fill that we said to them when they put it in um some of from the women's called they communicated with the shade tree there a bag there they fill it up and we said if there's ever a time where you need us to do it you tell us so um they have not communicated but I'll Che okay I think it's I um but it was someone else that was taking care of the W um do we know what the status of the digital sign is for publicity I know it's now back up it's now back up back up y yay I thought I saw it this this afternoon when I was coming back so as soon as the uh the uh notice before the like say the holiday party come is set that'll be the next thing that goes up on that's not okay pronouncing it early yeah I'm thinking that we have a lot of things that are still going on this month we're we're just going to wait till December is that well it's a uh you can only do one a month right and you put too much stuff two or three lines I mean the thing that we seem to have the smallest amount of participation is is author okay yeah so we can do an author time I could definitely do an author time I canate to John tomorrow yeah and even if it's not on the digital just maybe I mean you have a title but I have no idea what that means like I look at the title of these and I don't know what what is you'll be great at what I do yeah that's that's I know but what is it about you know what I'm saying I I think I'd be more encouraged to come if I knew a little bit about who what person was going to be speaking about Well here here's a like one of the challenges with that is to explain it you have to use words but unfortunately in my experience and what we've learned and we're going to try and adjust is the reality that people don't read they they do not they do not read too much text they're zipping by online they're driving by pretty quickly so the trick is to try to get that hook to get people to look into it as few words as possible that they'll see it and so we're working on developing a better uh way to do that so uh it's that striking that balance of hook and non non excessive text okay whether it be maybe a graphic image of some sort uh we'll have to say because like say for example I can tell saying just a biography biography just like for example I know the first one that you had come in October Dr Paul chsky five people came understood that's core publicity on his part but what was it about yeah I have no idea he's a doctor was it medical you know what I'm saying like I have no idea for example for uh uh the one that's coming up to the uh you'd be good at great at what I do it's a it's a fictional novel set in Bradley Beach that's all that's all I so basically a story set in Bradley Beach something like that I would I would use that line so just to hook that right there come come meet this author tell you about a book about Bradley Beach so that's going to be the hook but for some other things like Dr mk's yes I can his book was how he overcame the challenges of growing up with with cereal py so now condensing that you looking for a sentence that catches people understand what it is yeah the title isn't really explaining what it might be about what I was going to say is you could probably put on that like if you have the title of the book or a graphic or whatever you could say more information about the book go to and you know reach out to the library you know somewhere on the library get more information about the book yeah like say visit us online at the website put the website just probably keep it very simple for that so if they if they're interested enough they will go if not we were going to put the the the times of the library you think we that was something we asked for but down you would like to see more of the well I know I know we're going to get a lot of people that are going to come to the holiday concert that's it's almost a given anything that happens to tail so concentrate on the things where having to to see something else as as much as I love the sign that's out here you're only on one side driving in One Direction you only read what's on one side you don't see what's on the other side unless you're going the opposite direction so some people don't drive down 10th Avenue in E Street exactly some people in this town strange ones I am committed to find some Modern sign solution that would address all these and that is something I will not be bringing up either school and almost got fir so you can go for that last I know you wanted to give an update on the uh the sports and the fishing club yeah so the fishing club we we did get a a bill they you know they're going to obviously they you can't pay them up front it has to be you know the services lender then we pay for it so um they have a certain amount of hours that they've done already and we're going to uh pay for that we also have a he's going to give me a um for the next meeting a report in terms of possibly to increase if we're interested in increasing the amount remember it was 2500 um for for more hours I'll have that for you next time Esports really hasn't started yet um or we haven't received anything from the school yet um but fishing Club has has their biggest time probably is the spring right Mike is that when you're they had couple couple yeah so that's where we did uh that did get started and we will have a um proposal to you next time okay hanging out at the beach I heard the other day 14 whales that someone so one day well the fishing club was down there uh Sur fishing and they actually saw one of the whales didn't catch it I was the Saturday we had the Wolves whole bunch of Wes right people people were waiting for the Wolves watching the whales wolves and Wales in one day what did the Wolves think they were pretty cool about it all right uh any other old business I know we kind of carried into any other new business I uh real quick library hours during Thanksgiving how are we so we close early on on Wednesday and then we'll close that whole weekend okay Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday and that's something you agreed to previous good okay y didn't we talk about that last year we did last year because we looked at the we went through the whole calendar yeah and we'll do that at the January meeting we'll go through all the make sure you agree with what some of the weekends are a little bit different like July 4th is a Monday I think this year so then I would think You' be okay with that now for Christmas Christmas is on a yeah so the the Christmas is the shortened close on the 24th close on the 25th and a shorten day on the 23rd that's what you agre to yes Thanksgiving was a shorten day on that Wednesday yes yeah but that's a uh so before the the 26th after that we're open we're open we're open yeah just the 24th and 25th kind short open that's correct yeah uh I think that's it for me public comment yeah uh public comment no that's it that's it it all I'll make sure that we have our updated like our warming line and whatever resources this year are going to be the resources for um code you know blue and and making sure that if you do have um anyone who's in need of services home shelter whatever that we heavy updated information I did hand out at the Women's Club there was a a wonderful flyer I didn't bring it here but there was a wonderful flyer that I showed at the Women's Club our last meeting which was about yay big and it must have listed about eight different Services for Seniors which I thought was wonderful and so I did hand it out at the Women's Club and a couple of people did make copies of them but maybe we should have a couple of copies over to see I mean some of the things I wasn't aware of like for example there's handy handy somebody who who does handiwork I guess and I guess he's someone that's been approved by the burrow obviously because he's on this piece of paper that's being issued by the bur like this can come and do like handywork you know you never know who you can call for last minute things I have a door falling off its hinges who do I call by the bur or by the it it was a I wish I had yes I'll send you a screenshot tonight okay cool all right uh anything else anyone want to make a motion to attour make motion