[Music] Okay. 6 o'clock and we'll begin the special meeting for the county board of commissioners with the flag pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Like to thank everybody that's here and welcome that. With that, Beth, would you do roll call? Sure. Commissioner Benoy
here. Commissioner Heinen here. Commissioner Pop, present. Commissioner Johnson here. Commissioner Gapinsky here. Thank you. County Administrator Monty Hudley. So, Mr. Chair, uh the action before is conduct a public hearing on proposed CIP plan and proposed to issue capital
approval plan bonds. Jesse Green from Northland Securities is here to prevent our staff report. Okay, Jessica. Welcome, commissioners. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. As Monty just mentioned, we are here tonight for the purpose of conducting a public hearing
related to a 5-year capital improvement plan. That mic is on. Mic isn't working. Are you sure it's on? I'll try to be a little bit louder here. Um, so again, the purpose of the meeting tonight is to conduct a public hearing related to the 5-year capital improvement plan um for
Benton County. This will cover the years 2025 through 2029. Uh the purpose of this plan is to facilitate the financing of a proposed new government center and utilize the authority under capital improvement plan bonds to do so. Sure.
Um, so with that, as the county board is aware, when you are utilizing capital improvement plan bonds, there are certain statutory proceedings that are required prior to the issuance of those bonds. One of those things is the adoption of a 5-year capital improvement plan. And more specifically, statute
requires that the plan is drafted for at least five years. It can be drafted for more, but again, this plan is drafted for the years 2025 through 2029. So the plan has been drafted in accordance with statute. So we have a bit of an introductory section and then
statute requires that you are reviewing these eight separate areas that statute calls for for review and comment on. So this plan again has been drafted to comply with that statutory process. Um if it's okay with the commissioners, what I would plan to do is simply go through this document that's in your
packet this evening. I'll plan to keep things rather high level. um being that the board has been discussing this project for years. You've had numerous meetings and I know that you've been holding some open house meetings lately. So, we don't necessarily need to rehash in detail kind of the need for the project. Although all of those details
are included in the plan here, I simply won't read the plan to you. Um if at any point you do want to stop and talk about the details in the plan, if I've gone sort of too high level, simply let me know. Does that sound okay? Correct. Great. Okay. So, we'll start with the introductory section. This section
simply refers to the statutory reference. So it is Minnesota statutes 373.40 and that speaks to the issuance of general obligation capital improvement plan bonds. Now when I say capital improvement plan, I'm not referring to the more comprehensive CIP
that the county would maintain for um all sorts of activities. So not just um you know vehicle acquisitions, property acquisitions, all sorts of different projects. This is a specific capital improvement plan related to the issuance of capital improvement plan bonds and
those types of bonds are primarily issued for essential service facilities. So again, this is very specific to this issuance or proposed issuance of bonds. Also in the introductory section, what we kind of address right away, right out of the gate, is the authority for the
issuance of bonds by the by the county. So in terms of capital improvement plan bonds, what is stated in statute is that your maximum principle and interest in any given year for the total amount of capital improvement plans bonds outstanding cannot
exceed.12% of your estimated market value. The estimated market value for Benton County is just under 5.5 billion. That results in a capacity for principal and interest of approximately six and a half million. And what you'll see at the
end of this report that you've got before you is that all of the scenarios that we've looked at in terms of various terms which has not been decided at this point um all of those scenarios maximum principle and interest is well below that
threshold. And then the purpose section here speaks to the types of projects that can be financed with capital improvement plan bonds. And then we move on to the capital improvement planning process. So, of course, the board has authorized the prep preparation of the
capital improvement plan. Um, staff has worked um directly with Northland in preparing this plan and providing all of the details related to the need for the project. And then there is some information here related to the voting requirement. So, at least twothirds of
members of the county board um would need to approve the issuance and approve the plan here. And then also it speaks to the um need for a public hearing and then following the public hearing that there is a 30-day reverse referendum
period whereby the county could get a petition against the issuance of bonds. Now that petition needs to be signed by at least 5% of those that voted in the last general municipal election in terms of number of signatures. If the county were to receive a petition, you would have a couple of options for how you
move forward at that point. If the county wanted to move ahead with the issuance of bonds, you would need to take that question to the residents of Benton County. And you could do that with in a general election. If there's time to get that question on the ballot, you could hold a special election if that's what you would like to do. Um, if
you do take it to an election and it comes back that the residents are supportive, you're clear to issue the bonds. If that comes back that the residents do not want the project, you need to sit out a period of 180 days before you start the project again, assuming that the project is considerably the same. If it's
materially different, you could probably start the project or excuse me, the process a bit early. Um, but again, 180 days if the vote is no. Now, if the uh if the county board were to receive a petition against the issuance of bonds and you've decided that you don't want to take it to an election, at that
point, you just can stop. That is fine. What that means though is that you have a period of 365 days where you can't propose the project again and again start this public hearing process again without making substantial changes to the scope of the
project. From there um we list out the eight separate areas that I mentioned previously. So ranging from the condition of the current infrastructure, likely demand for the improvement, so on and so forth. From there, we get into the projects to be financed. And again, this is a five-year plan, but for this
plan specifically, we are looking at just the potential construction of a new government center. Um, we have, of course, the years 2025 through 2029. And currently, what we're expecting is that if the uh board is comfortable moving ahead, that the project would be
constructed or start to be constructed here in 2025. However, you do have the flexibility to start the project at any time during the um term of this plan. So even if now that we have um listed in here that you would start in 25, you can
start in 26 27 28 29 the authority lies within those five years that are stated within the plan even though again we're just looking at this one project. The other thing to keep in mind is if the county board identified projects other projects that would be financed with the issuance of capital improvement plan
bonds during the term of 25 through 29, you can go back and amend this plan. you'd simply have to renotice a hearing and increase the amount of the authority that's being authorized via the plan. So, we'll get into these eight areas. So, um related to the condition
of the county's infrastructure, including the projected need or for repair or replacement. Very simply put, the county is out of space. um you have an older building, you have a number of buildings that have been sort of put together in order to provide service to
residents and a number of people would likely call the sort of footprint and the layout functionally obsolete at this point um and requiring substantial renovation to allow for additional service delivery um accommodating of staff etc. However, when renovations
have been discussed, there would be some um some reduction in the overall square footage that the county would have just due to the structures that you have currently. Um and with those facility studies, it has been recommended that the county board consider the construction of a new facility that
would allow for accommodating um of growth um not only for service delivery but also for staff needs well into the future. And again, a good amount of detail here related to the existing uh structure and the condition. And then from there, we get
into the likely demand for the improvement. Um the county board has made investment in other um facilities for the county um in the last many years. That being said, the remaining um what what is referred to as the county government center um has buildings that
range from the very well seasoned 124 years down to 44 years old. Um and all of the spaces within the government cons government center, excuse me, again are at capacity. Um so don't allow for future growth and again um moving things around so that it's efficient in
providing service to residents. Moving on to the estimated cost of the improvement. Um, so the projected uh project amount is approximately $29.7 million. The county intends to finance the project to the through the issuance of general obligation capital
improvement plan bonds. Now, this estimate is meant to provide you with a ceiling for that authority. So, it doesn't mean that the county is going to issue $29.7 million. You have not received bids yet. So, that information would be reviewed. And then also the
county board has the ability to provide some cash to reduce the borrowing need. Um but also it should be known that even if you go through the CIP process, if at any point the county board decides that you're not going to do the project, approving the plan does not
require you to issue bonds. Uh so it can't be used to compel you to issue debt. It is simply providing the authority to issue bonds up to that again that maximum amount of 29.7 million. available public resources. The county would finance the bond principal and interest payments through a debt
service levy. Um, and that would be spread on all taxable property within the county. We then move on to the level of overlapping debt in the county. Um, and what we are doing here is just providing a snapshot of the other taxing jurisdictions within the county. So, the
schools, the townships, and then also the cities and their level of debt that has impact on tax rates. just to again provide a snapshot of the outstanding debt in the area, relative benefits and costs of alternatives for uses of the funds. Um
the county board of course does find that that a new county government center would produce substantial benefits to residents and county employees. Um with the new um layout of the government center, that building would have a focus on customer service with um a number of
different services located near the front of the building that are accessed the most. So DMV and also veteran service offices would be located near the front and being very easily accessible to residents. Operating costs related to the proposed improvements. So, we do
have a number of um different areas here related to the estimates for operating the new facility. However, they are estimates at this time. Obviously, we wouldn't know the actual costs of those um um those operating costs until, of course, the county had fully moved into that building, but there has been some
research done in terms of the the um operating costs. And then again, we do have a note here that speaks to the fact that the county board would be implementing a number of different energy efficient um improvements into the building um as much as possible, of course, according to the scope of the
project. And then finally, number eight here, um looking at alternatives for providing services or um looking at shared facilities. There are times when certain cities are able to find um colllocating or sharing
facilities to be of benefit. In terms of county government though, um colllocating is really not a great option for counties just because of the level of service that you provide and the ability to do that efficiently with residents within the county. Um so if you were to share services with a neighboring county, for example, it
would simply mean that travel times, service delivery, etc. would be much more inefficient than it is today located here in Foley. And then the final piece of this looking at financing the capital improvement plan. Again, the maximum
authority that is requested under the plan is 29,700,000 which again ties to the current estimate of the bonds or excuse the project. Just to repeat myself, that does not mean that the county will issue $29.7 million. You can issue less than
that. That is just your ceiling. And again, you can abandon this completely even if you approve the plan today. It cannot be used to compel the county to issue debt or finance the project. So the two tests that are applicable to this particular borrowing
authority, the county cannot exceed roughly um in access debt in access, excuse me, of 3% of the estimated market value. So when we look at the estimated market value for the county again that being just under $5.5 billion and we
multiply that by that 3% test the total amount of debt outstanding for the county could be up to 164,80,80,257. The county currently has no debt that is applicable to that debt authority. So that leaves the entire authority of
164,000 or excuse me $164,80,257 of total debt authority remaining. And then I'll repeat what we went over at the very beginning. So your principal and interest payments cannot exceed for the for all capital improvement plan bonds that are outstanding cannot
exceed.12% of your estimated market value. You do not have any capital improvement plan bonds outstanding. And based on the estimated market value um you have approximately um up to $6,563,210 that are that is the capacity
for the total debt service that you could have with capital improvement plan bonds outstanding. We do provide you with some estimates based on the various terms that we've been looking at. Uh based on a 25-year term, we would estimate that the payment would be approximately 1.8
million. If we move that to a 15 or 20 year term, we're looking at somewhere between 2.1 and two and a half million. So again, well under that capacity of six and a half million. Um but that is sort of the um the test related to capital improvement plan bonds. And
again, the county has demonstrated that you're well below both of those thresholds. So that is a lot of information. I understand. Um from here, I'm happy to take any questions. You can certainly open it up to public comment. Um you do have a resolution of course
for consideration this evening um if you choose to move ahead um following um receiving public comment. I guess first we'll open it up for if any of the county board has questions for Jessica. Anybody have any
questions? Do you feel we want to open her up to public questions or after during the public hearing or think I can open the public hearing? Okay. Okay. Thanks, Jessica. The next item on our agenda is
the public hearing to consider the it's not the it's not issuing the bonds. It's the intent to issue bonds. And we'll go through a few things. The intent is to issue like Jessica said up to 29,700
29,700,000 in bonds. And this is to start the clock for the reverse referendum. So there'll be 30 days from today if the board chooses to go through with the intent to issue. Um and that decision will be made later on in this
evening. Um at this time we'll before we give the the before we open the public hearing we've heard from staff. Do we need to hear from anybody else Monty? Okay. if the applicant is present or they can please come to the
podium and that is the county and we've done that. We'll now open the public hearing. Is there anyone in the audience who wishes to speak to the county board on this agenda item? If so, please come to the podium
and state your name and your address. If the if the audience is large enough, and I don't think we're that large, that we'll limit it to certain amount, or if you get carried away, I do ask that you be courteous to the county board
members. We've had one meeting that was pretty rough and pretty um outrageous with some language that we did not appreciate. Um we're all here to serve the best interest of the people of the county. So, um I that's one part that I
would I will probably cut you off if you use vulgar language or something like that that goes with it. So, okay, Mr. Havda, my name is Jim Havda. I live in Langola Township. Uh I'm here to speak in opposition to the issuing of bonds.
Uh the tax burden is more than we can handle. uh the tax issues that you good commissioners have already had a handle on was the airports commission which Ed Pop says is under negotiation but that that's not going anywhere. The other
three people other three entities are not going to give up Benton County contribution. Negotiate I think all you want but we're we're stuck with that. The worst part is they can mention the media was not truthful
on this issue but uh they can raise taxes without representation. Uh the airport commissioners won many folk good folks are on fixed incomes. Uh the tax burden that this is
going to pose is just one more level of of of something that's just difficult. Uh, I think there are other options that they could go. Uh, but of all the people I've talked to in my area, not one person has been
enthusiastic about this at all. And I would be very surprised if any commissioners vote against this. It's it would be shock to me. Maybe one, but you guys are going to do this and we're going to get it whether we like it or not. Thank you, Jim. one one deal on the
airport that we are not the only entity that's questioning the airport. All entities all entities the three counties are all questioning yes the the localality of that so we are not standing there alone interesting to see where it goes thank
you anybody else um my name's Michael Deppa uh registered voter in Benton County. Um I'd like to ask the board how much money was spent on the project already for um going forward. How much money do we
have? How much money does the county got invested in it? Where are we sitting? Do you have that figure, Monty, or we got a rough estimate? Let's not go with the rust estimate. Let's go with what's spent. Everybody knows what's been spent already because you had to write a check.
How about you let me check and I'll get back to you during the course of this meeting. I don't want to guess because when I guess I'm wrong. How about giving me time to go check and I'll let you know. Fair enough. Yep. I got a couple other questions. Is is um you know, you
got uh people on a fixed income. You know, we know that there's people that are probably paying up to $1,000 a month to live in their home on taxes in the county. Um I don't think that that's very uh feasible because you know that
that taxes is just going to continue to rise and going to go up. you know people on the social security you know it come to having a meeting where we sit and now a decision I believe has been made already by the
board because you already went forward and mentioned that there was going to be digging of the project in September already from the last meeting that they possibly the contractor who's sitting right here mentioned that they could
break ground in September. So, I want to know if that's accurate or not. Is that what the board was going to do? And was was that the plan? M Mr. U Mr. Chair or Kabinsy, Miss Commissioner Kabinsky, I think what was stated is they could
break ground in September if everything was approved. If everything This has not been approved. It has not been voted on. And we are still sitting here wondering what we're going to do. But this but tonight starts that referendum time period and allows us to this is a legal
step that we have to do in order to even be a valid to be a valid job going forward. We have to have some kind of financing for it. So this this gives us the avenue to finance it with the bonds. We can flush the bonds at any point
during this process and do away with it. Well, I think that would be a good idea to flush the bonds with it. If you don't have the money that's set into a reserve fund to pay for the project we're borrowing, how do how are the taxpayers ever going to get
ahead? How how do the taxpayers take how do they take the hit on that? When when Monty comes back, I'd like there are certain levels that we can only go with with levying you guys to build this slush fund per year. We can't just keep putting money in in a savings account
for a building like this. There there's legalities on that. Okay. You know, we talked about we talked about there's got to be a budget set for um maintenance every every year. There's
been maintenance every year. There's a budget set by the county, by the commissioners. Where's where where have we gone with that? And why hasn't the work been done where we see it on a video screen of what's just the bad, not
the good. There's a lot of good here, you know. Um space um you got to realize you're building a 29 million. That's just an estimate. 29 million is what they're saying. We know that's not coming in at 29 million. It's
going to be over. Um go ahead, Ed. Um 29,700,000 is the maximum amount that would we would be able to spend if we move forward tonight with the intent to issue bonds. Not saying we're going to issue, it's with the intent. So it'll
never be more than $29 million. And never say that again. It will never be more than $29,700,000. Do we have $29,700 in a fund to spend? That's the maximum amount that we could bond. So,
we have the money in a bond. Well, we can get it. We don't have it right now. So, we don't have the money to to build the new courthouse. We have to bond for it. We have to bond for it. Just like a school district bonds to build a new Monty, can you can you please tell the audience what the what the maximum
amount we can levy to build a slush fund or a savings account? Um, it depends on the purpose. If you talk about what Jessica just talked about, it was $6 million. No, I I think what Mr. Depp is looking at is if we would take and and levy and build a
slush fund to like a savings account over the next There's no limit on that. I mean, there's no legal limit on that. So, we we could just over the time over 10 years put this money away and build it, right? You could I thought there was a max that we had to stay with it. You could levy whatever you chose to set it
aside and pay cash, right? Yeah, you could do that. But you would be levying each year for that of course. Again, there's no legal limit on the levies right now, right? And just pay cash, right? But no matter what, it's still coming from the
taxpayers. Correct. But it's coming from the taxpayers. But if we don't have the money, we shouldn't be doing the project. You know, it's um if you you can't spend you can't borrow and make
money. It's pretty reasonable. I don't understand that one. I mean, okay, if we have Okay, what you're saying we have to be bonded. Okay, you have to explain to me what the bond is. Explain to me is the money Does
a county have money set aside in bonds to cover the project? No. So, no. So, so we are the bond. Yeah. The taxpayers are the bond. So, hypothetically, and and I'm not trying to be argumental here, but if we took
and came to you guys and said, "We're going to levy you 10% for a building in 10 years, would you guys agree to that?" Well, do we need it? Can we cut somewhere else? Yeah, I I can tell you I every year that goes by, I'm not getting
younger and I know these buildings aren't and we we're out of space. Your neighbor don't like like the way your house looks. So So Mr. Chair, if I could urge you, I think if someone wishes to speak during a public hearing, they should come to the podium given their name, address so we have that for the
record. Okay. So would you please wait till Mr. Depp is done and then we you can come up. I I still didn't get the question answer. Okay. Can I ask was spent on the project going forward? I'll ask your you had a question first about how much has been invested so far. So I
have a number for you. So 1.3 million uh 9996,000 is for architectural design services going back almost two years. 32,900 for like um soil uh boring uh soil testing and so on. And then the
county purchased the land across the street about two years ago in May and that was 277,000. So all told about 1.3 million has been invested so far. Okay. With that with that number, don't you think it would have been a lot wiser
for the board to take that $1.3 million and stick it into our building? $1.3 million we did on a project. Okay. So tonight I tonight I understand you know that you know
there's two options. Is that is that correct? Is that what you guys are coming up with is two options to either go forward with the project or to have a vote on the project. No correct. Okay. So our decision tonight is to whether or not we're going to approve funding
potential funding to bond. Nothing to do with yes we're gonna do the building or we're not. As Commissioner Kapinsky said, if the board chose tonight to establish the funding uh parameters of a bond, then that would start the process for a reverse referendum for 30 days. If
the voters decide to do that and provide that, the project is done. That's the voters's opportunity here. If you fast forward to May 29th, that's the day that we're scheduled to open the bids. That's when we're going to know are we close to
the 29.7 or not. Are we going to be over or under? If we're over, we don't have approval to spend more than that because we've only gonna approve 29.7. If we're under, we've got a decision to make. But there's a couple things in play here because if we have a reverse referendum, there's not going to be a decision to
make because the public has spoken and said you're not going to do it. Yeah. And I I believe that there's more than the two options that are on the table. The third option is just to scrap it. I think you got too much. I think you got We got We got We don't Where are we
going to come up with putting people at a tax burden going up? I mentioned at the last meeting I had a parcel of land that went up 76%. 76% that parcel of land went up. So I go to the assessor's office and I ask
if I could build on that parcel of land and they didn't know. So, I went to planning and zoning. Planning and zoning mentioned to me that I would have to fill out a um paperwork so they'd have a meeting to get a variance. So, neither
one of them knew if I could even build on that property line, but my taxes went up 76%. I guess I don't get that. I I I don't understand how you can make a decision to raise somebody's taxes
when I'm not given the opportunity to make a decision on my own other than to dish money out of my pocket to the county. So, um I just uh I'm just uh I'm appalled by the decision that it's got
this far. Um my uh my comment is is that you know I believe there's three options. I think it needs to stop and just do away with it. I'd like to say thank you for your time. Thank you, Mike. Hi, I'm Mary Kay Nordman, 9511 25th
Street Northeast Sock Rapids. I think this is absolutely ridiculous that we've spent $1.3 million on a project. Those are my tax dollars and these people's tax dollars. And when I go to the courthouse and I use the facilities, I have no complaints whatsoever. I I feel
like I walk in, I get the service I need. I don't hear people complaining about the courthouse um using the facilities. Um I understand there are things that need to be fixed. But you guys are going to give yourselves a budget of $29
million.7 whatever it is. How about going, hey, maybe we've spent 1.3. How much realistically can we spend on this courthouse that isn't going to tax the community that we live in? It's ridiculous. My taxes are $9,200 a year
and you're going to get me right out of Benton County. It's ridiculous. My neighbors, my friends, people that live in Benton County are like, "Please go to the meeting, find out, and if they have to do the ballot or to to sign something, they're all going to sign it." It's like a waste of money. It's
our money that you're wasting. It's my tax dollars and I'm upset about it. Mr. Chair, I I I hear you. And and believe me, if if you guys do the reverse referendum, I'm 100% for it. It's going to start up in a year after
that or it'll go it'll go to the taxpayers. We've already said that. It'll it'll go on the ballot. It takes all of us done this way in the first place. Instead, we spent $1.3 million Why didn't Hey, we're thinking about doing this before we spend a million
dollars. Take it to the tax to the people that are paying the taxes and say, "Hey, this is our idea. Let's throw it on the ballot." Ma'am Ma'am, if I could address that because um about asking that. We've had meetings committee the whole meetings. We've had meetings constantly about this. This is
not something new. We've met for a year and a half. And please let me finish. Okay. Nobody I I shouldn't say nobody. very very very few people out of the 42,000 people we have in this county showed up at those meetings to help direct that decision and that's all of our now I I
guarantee I understand that but for a year and a half where there's been public notices meetings held multiple multiple multiple times and we've been as absolutely transparent as we can be about this project since the day we started it. So this is not something new. So knowing it now why are we
continuing? Why do you feel like how would we have gotten to this point though without those? Well, I think that there's a lot of people that have been upset for more than just the last three months that this has been going on. I mean, it's it's constant with taxes in Benton County. It's it's
truly I mean, I moved here. I lived in Benton County, then I was in Morrison County, then I came back to Benton County, and I live on a gravel road, less than 10 acres. I don't know what what's going to happen when I'm a retired. Okay, I worked at a facility,
the correctional facility for 27 years. It's an old building and you know what you do? You you fix it up with that 1.3 that they've already spent. I'm sure there's a lot of repairs that could have been done. And when it comes to you building the Taj Mahal over here, let's
do this. How about go let's have a realistic plan. We don't need that in Foley really. I mean, can't we build a nice two million3 million dollar project and instead we're going to take it right to the top because this is how much
money we can get for bonding. So, let's spend it all. That's not what the people want to do here. That's how I've been told from other people that they feel the same way as I do. So, let's not build the Taj Mahal, guys. We don't need a drive-thru. We don't need all this
stuff. Just make it practical. If the veterans are having a hard time, as she said, it's for the veterans and people with disabilities can't get through the door. Whatever it is, let's make it realistic. Let's not go bells and whistles.
Hey, thank you. I'm Jim Gutwalt live in Langola Township. Ed's my [Music] commissioner. You know, I'm not against building. That's not why I'm talking. I'm against I look at what these farmers do
for a million bucks. to build a chicken barn that's 650 feet long, 60 feet wide for a million bucks. If you need office space, I could brick it, do a lot of work to that
building, put windows in it, whatever you guys want for a hell of a lot less than 279. I know you had meetings before, but it looks like it's a horse behind the cart. Why did you call a special meeting? You
said you have Jim, you must have turned off the mic. I got I got There we go. I did not come and that's my own business, but whatever. I had a hard time getting here. I know a lot of farmers wanted to be here today. I think
this meeting should have been two months ago. I was a job soup for a lot of for Winkleman Construction and a few other cont uh contra uh contractors. 279 is one hell of a lot of money that you're putting on these
people. My taxes went up. My son's taxes went up one to two,000 bucks a year. Insurance went up a thousand bucks a year. Car insurance went up a thousand bucks a year. I'm not saying you don't need meeting. You got a hell of a parking spot here that could put a
onelevel building in here. We don't need an elevator. We need hallways to get to the office rooms. Elevators are expensive. Like this young lady said, we don't need a big brick front and a and something like
that. These architects like to draw that, but they don't have to pay for it. We do. I've been through it. And to say that it's only going to be 27 297 is a joke. I've never did a building job
where it stayed at that number. There's always alternatives. And you people better understand that. And I don't think any one of you could go to your constituents in your uh precinct and get a 100% vote for this.
You'd be lucky if you get 10. Sock Rapids got a big referendum with the school district. We got the federal government cutting budgets trying to save us from 37 trillion in debt. The state of Minnesota is probably they
spent 18 bill uh billion 10 billion in debt. Now, where in the hell do you think these people are going to come up with money? It's pretty hard to just go to the ditch and pick up garbage and find
some. There's a lot of farmers wanted to come tonight. They're planting corn when two months ago they would have been here. This room would have been packed. The parking lot would be full. I'm not against office space, but
I'm against 27 297. And I think most of these people if they raise their hand who's for this at 27 you're for it. Yep. For the whole 279. You're one of about 50. There you go.
Not very big percent is it? But I think you better look at it. Maybe we better have a special outside audit to this county. I lived in this county my whole life. I think we should probably have an outside audit of what's going on with our money. I look at social service. I look at
bridge funds. Social service is eating our butts away. Four million, probably three million more than what road and bridge. Then you come up with a sales tax, which is good. But then there's a sign there that costs $8,000 put by sales tax. That burns my
butt. Really? Okay. That burns me up. I'm sorry about that, Jim, but I was part of that decision because I I think it's crazy because that sign don't cost 10 cents. Well, we re we do reuse them. E I can go back in this county. I lived here my
whole life. And it's great you're doing it. Yeah. Because some other people are helping us pay it, right? But why? My dad was on this board, your board, years and years ago. Yeah. These roads were built by people
And now we can't even keep them up. And we want to put a $30 million building up. I don't I don't get it because everybody's taxes, like that young lady said, she'll get a,000 bucks increase. I will. How many won't get
a,000 bucks or 500? 500 is a lot of money. And Minnesota's broke. And we're broke. Every time I see a budget like this come through, there's a bond issue almost paid off. Let's hit them again. Let's hit them again. It's almost
paid off. The jail's almost paid off. And it's sitting empty. Jail is paid off. I see. Yeah. But we got what? Not probably not even 20 prisoners. I could go get you that many right now to fill it up.
I mean, it's easy up here to sit and spend my money and these people's money. It's our money, too, sir. Well, that's true. And you know what? We didn't have anything to do with the the school district bonds. No, but it hurts these people. I get that. But we are $1.6 million in debt in the county. $1.6
million total in debt in the county. Yeah. You know, and and I look at the Sock Rapids, 60ome million dollars, and what do they got? 15% of the of the population in Sock Rapids or in in Benton County. We're doing a building for 29 million that's
going to take care of 42,000 people. I've I've job souped a lot bigger buildings than this one for less money. I have I'm not You can shake your head all you want at me. I don't like paying excess tax. I don't either. But we we can't
just sit here and not do anything. No, but our codes are driving other things. So if we put if we put if we don't do money here, we have to do money in this building. What's your interest rates on the bonds? Is this a good time to buy bonds?
That would be a Jessica deal. Yeah. What's your interest rate? Roughly 4%. How much? It's not bad, but you got a lot of one level area here. So, we also looked at that, sir, and
that was going to cost us $23 million to throw another one level and remodel everything in here, and then we could not use the old courthouse. So, we've we've looked at this already. Well, I don't know, maybe other
people like spending money, but I don't. I mean, I don't mind spending county money here because it's if you need the space, but like this young lady said, 1.3 million. I mean, one 1.3 million that you already spent would have did a
lot of work. You're right. It would have taken off of 23 million. So, we would have been at 20 uh 215 million. I mean, yeah, you know, I mean, we've looked at these options. Okay. So, I've known you my whole life. I I just
can't believe the county's spending that much on this. We We haven't decided to spend the money yet. Okay, that won't come for another month. I feel it's a little late for this meeting. Okay. Thanks, Jim. Unfortunately, there's a process we have
to go through to get to this point. Anybody else? Yep. Step to the podium. Hi, my name is Karen Campa and I live in St. George Township. Um, so I got a bunch of questions. Um, this young lady
mentioned, um, well, first of all, let's back I got to back this up. Okay, so you guys went ahead and you were moving forward with this. You guys spent the money, you bought the land, and you said people didn't come, but you just kept moving forward and forward, and you
didn't propose a vote when you were moving forward with this. And all of a sudden, people got wind of it, what you did last month or the month before, and thought, "Oh, they're they're moving forward with this." So, somebody stepped up to the plate and said, "Well, we got
to we got to stop this. We have to do a revision." And I think personally that you wouldn't be at this revision state if when you guys were planning this and moving forward and voting for it amongst yourselves um that you would have had
something and reached out or sent a flyer in the mail or something with our property tax along with that and said um we are going to have a vote coming up because we're moving forward. So a lot of us were blindsided.
Um this lady here mentioned that um this uh revision um 30 days from tonight um they get the petition going or whatever and then after 180 days that's kind of a
dead then you guys got to start over and then we have to come back to the table and we have to do the revision again and we have to get the petitions going again. How often can we do that? How often does the public get to do that? Um
how many times after 180 days does the count the people in the county have to come to you? That's one of my concerns. Another one is um I'm disabled and um I'm on a fixed income and like this gentleman said, I'm going to be out of
my house next year. I have school levies I'm paying on. I'm on a fixed income. what my taxes will go up next year. I don't even get in a month and I'll be shoved out of my home and probably moving in with my 93y old or 94 year old
mother because I won't be able to live in my house. Um I have St. George has leveies that I'm paying on. There's two at the school board and if this comes up um I didn't ask to get disabled. I
worked full-time and was in a car accident and I couldn't go back to work. So, this is where I'm at. I go without medicine, sometimes without food because I have to scramble to get my money to pay my bills or my taxes or whatever.
Um, the second thing that I wanted to say is I don't know how many of you commissioners were on the board when this place was renovated years ago. Um, if you're all new or if you were still on it, I know people that worked here. I know that uh when they
moved the DMV in with the tax uh department, there was one lady, the head lady in that department and a couple other ladies and one lady had to take out doing the taxes and the DMV. Now you got several people in there. Um and you
you aren't that busy like Sterns County is. I I hear you want to do a drive up. Um and you're talking about how old your building is. Little Falls has an old building. They don't have a drive up and I know the lady that runs that and
they're a lot busier than what they are in here. Um, I want to just say about um I know people that have businesses in town and the customer service that they have received in that area has been
really poor and they go to Malaca to pay for their tabs or pay um do transfers or whatever. I'm going to give you an instance. I was in uh the county uh back in October to renew my license and of
course I have a bit brain injury. So I wasn't up on that by May 7th you had to have this new license. So I took a number and I sat there and I waited and I waited and they weren't busy and then finally somebody came up to help. In the
meantime an older gentleman was at the tax side and he was dinging on the bell and nobody got up to help him. So, I sat through and I observed everything that was going on and I thought, "Man, this isn't ran like it used to be." So, if any of you are here, I'm sorry if I offend you if you work in
that department. So, I asked this gal that came to help me about this license business. And she goes, "You," she said, "there's uh you have to have a birth certificate, you have to have this, you have to have that." And I said, "Just to renew my license?" "Yeah, by May 7th,
you have to have this new license." So I thought, well, I said, I don't have a birth certificate. My house was broken into. They stole my safe and everything in it. Well, then you go across the hall and she says, "And you got to purchase one." I go across the hall over there and the lady says to me, well, she says,
"You don't have to buy that license. You can get a regular license and you don't need a birth certificate." And I said, "What?" She goes, "You only need that new license if you're going to fly or you're going to go out of the country." So she said, "You don't have to purchase." And she said, "You'd have to
bring a piece of mail with your residence on." I said, "Oh, I got something in my purse that I could show." So, I go back there and I asked the lady to help me. She goes, "No, you got to take a number. Wait your turn." Now, I sat in there almost two hours. Then, guess what happened, another guy came, an older
fella, and a young guy to change his tabs. And it's getting later and later, and I'm waiting, and I'm waiting. One of the ladies went to the bathroom. Another lady goes and fills her water bottle. And the guy goes, "Well, are they going to wait on us or not?" And I said, "This happened." I says, "When I came to pay
my taxes." I said, "I dung the thing in May." And I asked about paying my taxes. And nobody got up and they said, I said, "Does somebody want my money here?" And they all look over their little cubicles. So, getting back to this
license thing, it was 10 to 4. And us three were sitting there and the lady's sitting there taking her time on her computer and all of a sudden she leans over and she said, "What do you guys need?" I said, "I'm still waiting. It's been 2 hours." I said, "I'm still waiting." And she goes, "Well, I'm
getting ready to close." And I said, and the older fella said, "But you got 10 minutes. It's not 4:00 yet." She goes, "I'm not take." And he goes, "What do you need?" The guy needed something about his property tax. The other guy needed his license tabs renewed. and I needed that new license, driver's
license. And she says, "You all have to come back tomorrow." Oh, boy. And I said, "No, you got 10 minutes." And guess what? She said, "I'm not waiting on any of you." So, guess what? I went to St. Cloud the next day. Went to Sterns County. My mother lives in St.
Cloud and I had to get go see her. So, I went out to Sterns County, took a number. I didn't even sit down yet. and they called me and I explained that to her and she says, "No, you don't need for your regular license." I know people that have businesses here in town and
they the the poor service in that department and guess what? They go to Malaca. So, this drive-thru business that you're proposing because Sterns County has it and you want this fancy building because you want that, which
lady is going to get off off of her butt and it's going to sit by a window or are they going to say, "I got the last one. Are you going to get up and take care of her?" Cuz I was in there yesterday and that's what I heard. I got up. I helped
her. I'm um I helped uh I got the last one. So, are they going to hire somebody to just be by the window all the time? I'm telling you how this was run years ago because I knew the people that worked in that department. You had less people working and there was more people
living in the county than there is now. You have forced people out of this county because they can't afford to live here anymore. And the majority of these people, like that gentleman said, are farmers or they're lowincome people. And you're going to put us right out of our
homes. I work my whole life to have what I have and I I'm not going to be able to afford to live there. But my my my point is if you guys were moving forward with this and all of a sudden somebody caught
you right in the nick of the time because you should have had a proposed a vote before you took that vote amongst yourselves and let the people know that this is what you were for sure moving forward with. Apparently, you did because you said you've been working on it a year or two years, spent our money.
That's why our taxes went up, I'm sure. And but um they caught you with this revision now. And there's a lot of concerned people, not just us lowincome people, but you've got people that own a lot of acreage, a lot of farms, and how
are they going to afford that? They're going to sell off their land, and then all a sudden people are going to come to Benton County. There's people that wanted to move out here a long time ago and they said, "Oh, we can't." No, you got to pay way high taxes. You pay one of the highest taxes. I'm on the
Sherburn County line. My mailbox is on the Sherburn line. And those people pay a third of their taxes than I do. They are brand new homes. My home is 37 years old because they don't have that in Sherburn
County. They aren't paying for this and this and this and this and this all the time. You suggested that we are I don't know how much money in debt already. 1.6 million. So why would you want to add more debt onto that again? It's either add debt or start fixing this and we're
we're being forced to by code. It's all So what happened to the renovation that was done years ago? You guys put in new office buildings, new carpet, new vent system. Okay. You guys weren't that. So what what's wrong with all that now that has to be redone? You've got people
working in human in uh human um services department and the majority of them people are working from home. They pop in once in a while. So they're not over loaded with office space over there because I was in there to talk to a lady
and I said, "Well, she said she's here every day." Oh, no. She's a floater. No, no, she works from home. The majority of them work from home. They come and check their messages or we transfer them to their home phones. So, where is this extra space that you guys are talking about that you need? I've been coming in
here for years. I didn't walk for a year after my car accident. So, I was in a wheelchair. Could come right through the front door. I could go to the Cessor's office. I could go to DMV. I could pay my taxes. Where is this all this? Is it
because you want to make the bu this look nicer because your your court system looks nice now? Your jail looks nice and now you think you need this this complete overhaul of your building? You guys meet on your meetings. I'm sure in here during the week you have your
talks or whatever. I don't know if each of you have your own offices or whatever. No. Um I have no idea. No. But these people, some of these people have been working in them offices for years and they never complained. Oh. Um, maybe
now because they want new. Everybody wants new. I would like a new house. No, it ain't going to happen. I'd like a new car. It isn't going to happen. It's not in my budget. So, my question is to you. We have, you said, 40ome thousand people and this is how many people
showed up for this? I don't know like you say if you're live streaming it or whatever and people chose to stay home or have kids that they got to take care of or kids are in sports or whatever couldn't be here tonight but I didn't take your tour of the rest of your building and um maybe
that's my fault but I see the extra people you got working in certain departments and I see what they did years ago and how many people you had hired in them departments and you got less people living in this county. No,
we got more people from 10 years ago. We were up from about 36,000 to 42,000 because people were telling me that there's a lot of people that have moved out of this town. I have a friend right now that he moved over. He moved into Morrison County, bought a piece of land
because the taxes were so high. He's right on the border. He says, "I pay less than half in Morrison County than I had." He says they it was costing me so much money and he's got a business and he said I I couldn't my family couldn't afford it. So ma'am from from your tax
point of tax rate in that when I came on the board 10 years ago start or Benton County was the sixth or seventh highest tax county in the state of Minnesota. We worked very hard to create Benton economic partnership grab some new businesses to the county and promote
things in Benton County. We are now the 27th or 28th highest tax county in the state. We have we have vastly improved that. Sherburn County, you you refer to Sherburn County. They used to be way above us. They've spent I don't know 63
million on a new government center and 63 million to remodel their old government center. And now they have come down to 40. They used to be in the 60s, 65, 70. They are coming to us and we're trying to get to them. So then what happens to this building then? This
building I will I will not lie to you. This building is going to create um some tax. We're going to slide in our tax rating in the state. There's no doubt about it. I think she's talking about this building. Yeah. So if you build the other one where you bought the land then and everybody moves their offices and
everybody probably gets their own office that they don't have to share like they have been. That's probably what's in the in the works. No, that's what's going to happen to this building. So, the new building's going to be all cubicles, too. It's not going to be private offices.
I just wanted to clarify that because they're not private offices yet. They have a hard time living in their little cubicle now and in where they are now. Yeah. Um, Mr. Chair, go ahead.
Um, excuse me. Um there I'm going to make some comments and I'm very new on the board. Two months I haven't made my mind up on on what this is going for. Um but I will say this to everybody in this
room since I've been here in January. The boiler system in this building has gone down twice in the winter months which creates no heat, no anything for anybody in this building. Um, if you took the time to take the tour, you
would see that our IT department, if we have any problems in that IT department because it is not secure and it goes down, there is a possible of lost information for anybody that's in that system. There's just so many things.
What's the right thing? What's not the right thing? I'm a taxpayer in this county, too. Do I want my taxes to go up? Absolutely not. But what's the right decision? And as some of these other commissioners have said on the board, we have I I feel that you guys have been
prior to me be been the most transparent. Public meetings would not have had to be were not demanded. It was not statutory to have the them to do that. Um but we decided that it was in the best interest of our constituents to
do um tours of the building so they could see what we were physically looking at. If we start a remodel on this building, that means we have to bring everything up to code. Everything has to be up to code. So, what scares me
about that is that I've we've done remodels personally and you start digging into walls, you start removing walls. What are we going to find in those walls that's going to create that to go even higher? So, the purpose of
these meetings was to it get feedback from our constituents so that we could take that. We don't have all the answers. Never do we have all the answers. We do the best that we can to make the best decisions for the people
in this county. Yeah. But you went ahead is what I'm saying is you went ahead. We You said we we you guys went ahead and made that decision for the people. You said the best interest of the people. Now you're hearing what's in the best
interest of the people. Like I said, the tax taxes came out last April. You guys went and bought land. The taxes came out. your tax statement came out again. Why wasn't there something in there instead of you guys moving ahead and you
should have said, "Hey, you're the people. You're the ones we're getting the money from. We need you guys to see how you feel about it and we're going to take a vote, but you guys but you guys voted on it and now somebody caught on and now they got to quick get a revision
put in there." Well, first of all, it's a reverse referendum, whatever. Okay. And um some of this was started long before I even got on the board. And commissioners have been talking about
this before any of us got on the board. This has been going back for 10, 15 years. They've been talking about upgrading these buildings. Well, I'm going to tell you, I don't have the Benton County news. I just found uh some of this out recently within the last few
months because of things that people were putting on Facebook. I have health issues. I had five surgeries last year. And so when all this stuff started coming around and people were talking about it, so if I'm one of the stupid people that don't come to your meetings
or don't go to the city council meetings to find out what's going on, then what about the rest of them? What about people in here that don't have internet, don't have cell phones to find out what's going on or they don't come to your meetings. I didn't come to your meetings because I was sickly. So, I
find us out in a short while and then all of a sudden the next thing I know is, "Oh my gosh, they got to do a revision." And it's like, "Oh my god, what did they vote on?" And then I hear all these different stories and it's like, "I have to go to the next meeting because I have to find out what actually is taking place." Um, and just so you
know, nothing's been decided. Nothing nothing has been decided. Do this revision. Okay, let me What revision? Reverse reference. This reverse I call it a revision. Okay, if they didn't do this and somebody caught it and you got 30 days and somebody didn't go forward and somebody didn't
drop the paper, legal paper to give to you guys and 30 days passed, what would happen? Then it would come to this board as a vote to decide what what was going to happen because the the people who your constituents wouldn't have a vote in you guys they would come to the table
and they'd say okay they didn't do a reverse referendum so then you guys would go ahead and then five people make that decision for 42,000 people. Is that fair? Yeah, that's that's fair. Is it you guys work for us, right? And that so is that
right for you to go ahead and make that decision? And ma'am, that's I mean I I I went filed for the board because I wanted to make a difference. I I thought our taxes were too high. We didn't have enough economic development in the county. We needed better roads because
our roads were right near probably the bottom of the line. And we've accomplished some of those things. Do I think this process was the right way to go? I don't know yet. There could maybe there could have been a different way. Um I think I mean if you were watching board meeting board meetings I thought a
couple months ago I would wanted to put it on hold for the time being but we are into this now and we done the process that we were put before us was the way we had to go and now we're to the point where we're going to have or the public hearing today it'll go out further and
we'll we'll talk about this tonight when we're done hearing from the public on which way we want to go and that'll be a decision whether the the constituents have to do a reverse referendum or not. That's just on the issuance. That's just on the issuance. That's all the intent
to issue. Not not we're going to issue. Well, you've what I've heard you have all your permits and everything already. No, we have nothing nothing. I just came from the city council meeting and they said that all your cuz I questioned them and all the permits and everything are
set to go because and I said, "Well, how come you are involved in it?" they said because it's on our our uh our city land. So that's why we're involved with the government. With great respect to Miss Tampa, I think it'd be appropriate to allow other folks. Oh, well, I'm sorry that I'm taking up my time and um
I'm a taxpayer. I'm sorry I took up your time. I just want to know one more question. I've been paying on my tabs an extra $20 every year for the last how many years? And that money was supposed to be for roads. It continue to do that.
I know Little Falls did it for years cuz I have a friend that works in their government office and she said once the roads were done, she said that went away. We haven't had that for years. They still got a a tab tax up there. Uh not the extra $20 that you guys charge there. I think they believe they're at
10. Uh the last time I talked to her, they didn't have that. So, and she has that. Maybe not a city one, but they do have a county one. So, thank you for your time. Wait, could we let somebody else speak
that hasn't spoken yet? Good evening, Mike Leandowski, Alberta Township. Uh I'm just going to echo what a bunch of people have already said, but uh one thing new um you talked about the meetings and uh the the uh public here or not the public hearing public
meetings that were in Rice and Sock Rapids and Foley and I went to those meetings and which is demonstrated like here tonight. Um we all know what the public sentiment is. Um, okay. But I suppose it's open to
interpretation and so the public sentiment that you're going to interpret at those meetings, um, I guess it's going to be up to you. I think the, uh, the true way to determine the public's sentiment would be a vote. Um, and I understand that's, you know, your
prerogative to do what you got to do. But, um, these public meetings were meant to be informative and to get feedback. Um, so the feedback was obvious because 95 90% roughly don't want it. I
think the biggest reason for the meetings was to be informative to say here's our 3D picture of what's going to happen. Here's how much we're going to spend. So, in that regard, it was very good. It was very informative of what we're up against as taxpayers. Um, but as far as public feedback, um, I'm not
so sure on that. Um the other part about the meetings that you mentioned that you held prior to this I know was there a committee for the building just amongst the board. No building committee per se. No. No.
Okay. Wondering maybe it's too late for this now. Obviously looking back. Um would it have been an option to have members of the board, one or two or how many have meetings with uh people in the public, people that uh do construction
projects, people that are farmers, and to get their ideas. And maybe there would have been some type of consensus. Yeah, maybe this is another maybe this is another option. Maybe we can do it for less than $29,700,000. Um, so I don't know if none
of those meetings happen where you got people from the public to come in and give suggestions or ideas. Well, just to be clear, Mike, all of our committee, the whole meetings, those are all public. They're public is always welcome to come to and those were discussing the the the building itself. Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. So prior to these
three meetings at various cities most no we had multiple multiple multiple multiple committee the we call them committee the holes committee of the whole work and they're all published they're all and the minutes for them are online okay and so when you have those meetings are they are there notice yes
going to happen published in the papers that you use and online so if I may they're posted on our website they're posted on the bulletin board we send those out to the media uh we don't publish the notices is in the paper. We're not required to. And so when you have these published, you have it says meeting of a of a hole. Committee of the
whole. Committee of the whole. And does it say what the meeting is going to be about? Yes. Like for instance, at the end of our regular board meetings, one of the agenda items we do is set our committee of the holes. Those are listed in our board minutes. And at that time, the public could get up and speak and give suggestions. Committee of the holes. And that I would say would be up
to the board chair, right? But typically typically we let they would allow the public to speak. Okay. We've had we've had people come in, Mike, on roads and they'll sit there and most of you know it's up to the chair and most of the chairs have automatically let them talk,
you know, because some of these people here tonight have great ideas, you know, and maybe maybe it's some on them, some of their responsibility should have been a little more involved earlier in the process. Um, but anyway, we're past that stage of the game. Um, I just want to say I lived in the county here most of
my life. My family has. And personally, when I go into the court facility here, um, at the courthouse, I guess we're dealing with this building more than anything. Uh, I've gotten good service. Um, I don't use every department. Um, I don't know if there's a way that the
board gets information about complaints or customer issues. Jessica mentioned that one of the major benefits of doing the bond uh situation here is one of the benefits is customer service and service delivery. Do you routinely get calls at home saying I got shitty service? Yes.
Yes, you do. What that would have been good to know because we don't hear that. We don't see that. Like Bman said, she goes in, she's satisfied. So ultimately when people get this put in front of them, they think, well, you know, I I didn't have such a bad deal when I went into the court. Mhm. One of the things
just to be clear is you're dealing with an elected official and the sheriff. So let's say that there's a problem at the jail. The sheriff is responsible for that. He's the elected official, right? Same way with the county auditor treasurer. She's she or that person is an elected position. They're not
accountable directly to the county board. They're an elected official. Same way with the county attorney. I'm not following you. So, when they're elected, when they have a problem that uh a customer complaint that let's say let's say there's a customer complaint with the county attorney's office, it goes to the county attorney. The county attorney
is the elected official. Mhm. They run their offices how they see fit. And I'm not saying they're good, bad, or ugly. I'm just explaining that if there's a problem in the sheriff's department, it's sheriff's tax issue. You guys have no ideas about the issues that may come up. Like let's say somebody you may hear
about them. We have no authority in their offices because they're elected officials. The only authority we have is set their wages and their budget and their budget. Um, I'll use an example and I'm Christine. I'm sorry, but uh I had somebody that called and had an issue in the license department and he
was I rate and I turned around and called Christine and she knew about it and she tried to help that individual out and he was pretty much saying some of the same things that Mrs. Campa said. Okay. So, just since that's I guess
we're trying to explain in that situation is that those particular elected officials are responsible responsible for that office, right? But if somebody can't get up like let's say they can access um because I took the tours as well and some areas are you know I could do it just fine and I think
probably the majority of the residents in the county can but if there's an issue with access wouldn't that be brought to you or building maintenance or somebody that says hey we got sure do you get those kind of complaints? Oh absolutely. How many of those kind of complaints where people can't access a part of the building do you get? Well I
I there's been a few people on the tours that couldn't do it. the people that were on tours couldn't do it. Yeah. Okay. But how many excuse me, but how many of those people are going and using the other facilities? Mitch, again, this is this is Mr. Lewendowski's time. I
think he he should be allowed the floor and then people can come up individually and speak. Okay. I'm pretty much done. I would just say, you know, it's probably beyond the point, but I would uh I know you've said if a referendum is reverse referendum is done um that you
wouldn't spend the $40,000 roughly to do it. Well, I'm only one on an individual vote. Pardon me. I'm only one vote, but I will not I will not vote for it. Thank God you're in my district for what? For a reverse referendum before the 20 I thought someone else mentioned it up here, too. No, I I would not from from
my standpoint, if the reverse referendum happens and it's validated, I'm done until the the 26th election. Okay. It'll go on the ballot. Just for clarification, Mike, you're referencing if the reverse referendum happens, we wouldn't call a special election. That's what you're referencing. My question was
we wouldn't spend another 50,000 on that. So, okay, that's good to then at that point it would go to the 26 ballot more than likely. And I understand by delaying it and if it does pass, yes, there might be additional cost because of the delay. Well, and a and a good point and I'm glad you brought that up because I think it's very important that
we all understand that that if the reverse referendum does happen and it's validated and the board chooses to okay, we're done. We're going to bring it to the 26 ballot and the countywide taxpayers approve it. They're looking at probably an additional $2 to3 million.
Yep. Just from historical inflation. And you know who's going to get in trouble on that one? Us again because we should have done it back then to save the money. You know, we're in a we're in a no-win situation here. If we if we do it now, we get we get taken to the cleaners
here. And if we if we wait and we did we didn't hear from 40ome thousand other people at the meetings and they say, "You guys should have went. There was only there was only 200 people at these meetings. You guys should have did it then. Now, you've just cost us $3
million, but in the meantime, we are going to have to spend money on this building to bring some things up to code. And people understand that. Okay. People, but that's a far cry from 29.7 million dollars. Bringing things up to code. If you have to tap in or make a remodel, yeah, people understand that
because people have done remodeling themselves and they know what it what they're up against with going, you know, when it comes to code. And if you have to do it, yes. Um, but there's other options. You know, the the renovation and the expansion of other buildings. I don't I don't know if that was necessarily brought forth as as
detailed is what this plan is. And that would have been nice as well to see, you know, um where the renovation dollars are going to go. Um if we put up an addition, where where is that plan? You know, that would have been nice to see to compare it to this so people could get a fair idea. Did we ever get that? I
don't remember seeing that. We we got it in our in our meetings again. I mean, it was presented to the board when the board tried to make a decision at those previous meetings. When a board tried to make a decision, are we going to spend dollars on remodeling at plus or minus 23 million or are we going to go towards a new one? Those discussions have been
ongoing well blueprint. Nothing nothing that advanced as far as nothing as advanced as what we have. Nothing as advanced as the new building. Okay. All right. I appreciate your time. Tough deal. Thank you. Anybody else in the audience that hasn't spoken and wishes
to speak? Nick Schumacher, 7510 95th Avenue, Northeast Foley. I just think the government as a whole has just gone crazy in the last teen years. I'm sure everybody sitting in this room
would agree. How do we reel back to the grassroots? The problem with like all these codes and stuff, we deal with handicapped people every day and we're happy to help these people. I myself, if I drive by and I see someone in a wheelchair, I'll be the
first one to get out and ask, "Hey sir, or ma'am, do you need some help? Let me help you get in there. Do you need help picking this up? You need help loading that up?" What happened to the common courtesy? I don't see any room in this building. If there's a will, there's a way you're going to get in there. I mean, they don't have to go to the boiler room. They don't have to go
here there. it they could get to their main necessities, right? Or can we maybe shuffle some things around? Maybe if the handy or the social services, maybe put them on the lower level and and move some other stuff around to to make it more feasible for everybody. And all
these codes that keep changing, isn't a lot of these lobbyists which are tied with other construction companies and just pushing to change all the stuff just to have to spend money cuz what happened to where were these codes years ago? Yeah. I mean, we're no experts up here today, right?
So, how do we how do we as a people, maybe all you two agree, how do we get together and say enough's enough. Let's start over and and reel back. Like your hands are twisted. I know your hands are tied. Hey, we got to do something about it. I think I think, you know, we've had this discussion, too. It's going to have
to start at the state legislature level, right? They're making the laws. We don't make laws. We're like you. We have to follow them. But how do we get a big enough people, a group of people to go down there and and basically people stand up? That's a great question. And it's frustrating because people are working. They're taking care of kids.
They're doing all those things. Exactly. We're working taxes, but it's how we're set up to do it. I I can't fix that by myself. And I'm not saying that's what the problem is. How do we as a a group of people stand up and say enough's enough? We're we're done paying. I can tell you for what it's worth. Remember
at our ditch authority meeting when I encouraged you guys to do that. I got a phone call the next morning from Representative Schultz asking me, "What did I say to you guys?" Because he was on his teenth phone call. So there was a response and he heard it. Yep. You know, and he was he had at rice at the old
crearyy cafe. Yep. And just the other day he was at Sable Inn for an update. So he's hearing that. But again, he's want even if he agrees 100% with what you're saying, he's by himself. He has to have a majority. And is it cuz I I just find it hard to believe that we
have to spend 20 some million dollars to to bring this building up to code. Is it that what is that far off? I mean, if there's there's you got to remember that that comes with a a new addition because we lose the whole uh bottom level of the old courthouse. Of the old courthouse.
What's What are we losing it or because it it's not it won't meet code down there. What What's it short of or I guess no room for additions? I mean, the ceilings are too low. Um it's wet all the time. I mean those are just a few
things that if we lose that floor what do we do with those people right so the answer was they'd have to add on right but like you say it's just got to stop I mean you guys heard me before we up to a big tax bill y 100 we agree with you
100% we're paying the same taxes you guys are it's not like we get free taxes and and if and you look at the tax capacity that we have and what our taxes are we don't we're not setting some people thought we set these tax li we
don't set these rates that comes from the state and and the reason our taxes are going up is because if a house is valued at well let's just say somebody is valued at 300 grand but somebody's got an extra 150,000 wants to pay that 150,000 all of our houses appreciate to
that same thing with land if if people want to go buy an buy a 100 acres of land for $7,000 and then they get turned down and then all of a sudden turn around and buy it for 9,000 an acre. Everybody's land value goes up and taxes go up. We don't control that. But then
we get we get it on this end that our taxes are so high, but everybody keeps buying land for X amount an acre. I would you agree, Commissioner Pop? You're in the farming industry. I don't know if I'm I I'm a city. And it's it's this double-edged sword because Nick, if you farm your property for 50 years and
you want to sell it, shouldn't you be able to get the highest value for that property? I think you should. Yeah. You should be able to sell it or you should be able to sell or pass it on without Sure. But I'm I'm talking about selling. So, if you can get 12 grand an acre for it, I think you should get that. The
problem is that affects my acorage and his acorage and your acreage. Everybody's value rises because of those sales. That's how the law works. The only the only way we we turn this back around is if your land is worth 8,000 an acre, but you're willing to take 6,000
an acre. Would you do that? Or your or Jared, go back to I wouldn't do that. I mean, go back to your house. Go back to your house. Yeah. If your house's worth 400,000, I want you to sell it for 280. Yeah, exactly. Why would you do that, right? Well, it's only worth what someone's willing to pay. I mean, that's
that's the problem with taxes. Yeah. Wait. If you want to talk, please wait. Yeah. It Yeah. I I I I'd love to figure that out with you. I don't have an answer for you. Right. So, I'm just because the majority of people here
sitting don't agree. And I mean, for instance, like what total different the ditch what they want to tax on that and I'll tax this on top. It's like, well, when's it going to stop? Yeah. I'll be honest. I wish this group would have been in Sock Rapids for the school district deal. Yeah. Yeah. Look at our school district. It's ridiculous what
they spent on that HVAC system over there. That's not here or there. We're talking about this now. So, we got to pay. It's just too much going out. We got to reel back and say, "Sorry, but we're going to have to hold off." And like I say, and it should have been we got that letter in our taxes. That's only that's how I feel about this. I
guess I don't every day go on the website to look on the county website to see what's going on. I guess maybe we'll have to start doing that on a monthly basis just to see what's happening. But uh that letter, why why didn't we send one out when we first decided maybe we're going to try and move forward
before we spent any money? Well, I think we were tasked with what we were going to do. And again, those meetings are noticed. They're the public's always invited and it's it's tough if the public doesn't show up. I don't know how to force the public to come. And we've talked about at our
board meetings, too. Absolutely. Right. But it worked. Now when you sent the letter, I mean a few people that never saw it until that letter came out. I mean I think that because you're obviously got to pay your taxes or someone's knocking on your door. We're trying to be transparent. There's been no decisions made. Zero. Right. No. So
and and the money that we spent on the design can be reused down the road for future design. Yes. Future design. Yeah. The one point maybe some of that is going to be wasted money if we don't move forward. But who did we buy the land from? Um, it was the person that
built the high school, ever. And believe you me, well, didn't we own that to begin with? No. No. No. High school. The school district. They sold it to Gopher State contractors. It was owned by Ever and we negotiated um I personally know Everett and we
negotiated with that to get that down to where it was. I mean, it was relatively a pretty cheap buy. I think if the county was willing to sell it, they should go make up for it. We should make up for this. But there again, it was kind of the part of the long-term planning here is like this is available across the street. What do we want to
do? People will ask, well, why didn't you build it over there? Well, the same reason is we needed some expansion over there someday. Some board is going to expand the courts facilities andor the jail. And if they don't have the land, they're going to go out and buy it. So that's why we left that alone for future expansion over there for some board to
take care of. Probably not this one. Well, the administration we have now, we don't have to worry about throwing anybody into jail. Seems like they just let them out. Sus I hear you there. I hear you there. 's point about we only he said 20 people. I think our average daily attendance last month was 32. You're right. Judges aren't putting them
in jail. No. Well, hell, they're leading to the back door to get away. Yeah. I mean, like I said, when we the people have to stop this. Yeah. We hear you. Okay. And it's why not let's just pay off our debt like you say and just not spend no more, but throw it in a savings account for a rainy day. That's one
thing too. I don't get how what is that deal if we allow so much money for this and so much for that and if you don't use it you lose it or you can't use it for something else. Well, that seemed totally backwards. Yeah, that can make Okay, go ahead. I I was just going to say to your comment of
getting that letter into your taxes that was also a decision made by this board to try to take save the taxpayer monies because otherwise you're sending out extra postage on 40 on 44,000. So, we decided to put it in with the taxes.
People had to open it. They'll see it and we're not spending the extra money. No, great idea. But your point did that to your point about that is is because you 99 out of 100 people getting their property tax statement are going to open it, right? But if it's a separate letter for the county, there's a high chance it's garbage. Yeah, exactly. So, that was the whole point behind it. But you
guys didn't do it. Yeah, we did. They did it this time, but they're saying, you know, we hindsight before we started is what everybody's getting at. One one point, Nick, to to the Benton County taxes is that if you look if you go back and you look at the levies that Benton County
has done for the last 10 years, we are one of the lowest in the state as far as average levy over a 10-year period. I mean, we are far less than our counterparts around here. Let's stay less and not focus on what our state as
Mr. Walls wants to keep going instead of let's maybe get above water and keep it above water. And if I can, I'd like to address Karen's comment about population. We're at plus or minus 42,000. Benton County is the 25th largest county in the state of
Minnesota. We're not large, but we certainly are not small. And remember, we have all of East St. Cloud. We have all of Sock Rapids, part of Sartell. So when you look at Benton County, we got to be careful. We're not just looking at Foley, right? We've got a tremendous amount of cost on the west end. That's
just the way it is. That's where our county line is. And so my point is is that we're not as small as people maybe think we are. And we've grown 7,300 people in the last 10 years. So with growing people comes growing cost and and additional staff to service those
people because we continue to get mandated and a lot of unfunded mandated from the state of Minnesota. Exactly. So who's mandating all this stuff? That's the state. State of Minnesota. How about we get them people in here and tell them to open their And I'm here to tell you it's no fun when take this down there too. That's why I said we got How do we
do this though? Cuz look what they're talking about now, Nick. Governor's proposals and even the House and Senate have proposals to cost shift to the counties. And how are we going to pay for that, Nick? Exactly. So when are we going to stand up and say no? We are. We don't have money for that. We have to raise taxes. That's our way to pay for
it. Well, tell them to pay. Like I said, then they should have take out their wage and they would change your mind real quick. Just like all this crap during co Keith Ellison running around thinking, "Hey, I'm gonna shut you down. He should give up his wage to pay that family's wage." I guarantee he want to shut anybody down. My My point is, they
put us in a very tight predicament a lot of times. Yeah. That's why I said, "How do we We got to fight back though. We can't just keep okay, fine, we'll do it. Fine, we'll do it." When are we going to say no? No, we're done. We're this come back to There's a lot of people saying no right now. Goodness. We have the federal government that we do that's out
cutting. Yeah. Well, and I will tell you that people on this board, almost every one of them can tell you that they've been down to the state legislature, including myself, to um talk with the state legislators to let them know what position we're in to help fight for the
things that we need to start cutting. But we're five people down there. That's we got to get enough people together cuz like let's let's look at this erraneous how many millions of dollars for illegal healthcare but yet we're kicking the people to the curb that they say can't get in here to get
their stuff. Well, we're kind of I mean contradicting, aren't we? I think you need to run for office now. Help get that changed. No, I agree. Well, you'd have my support. Yep. Mine too. I don't get it. I guess I don't know. But like I said, it's not it's going to take more than one person. It's going to take everybody. It's going to take way more
than this five people sitting here, right? But let's start by cutting back and say no, we don't agree with this. We've we've uh uh we're we're involved with AMC very very heavily and the message has been stop giving us more money. G give us less mandates. Exactly.
The less mandates are going to shrink government and people got to realize that I guess when they go vote unless it Yes. Thank you. You know for state office everybody's got to get out and vote I guess. Yes. Okay. But I'm here to submit my vote and I vote no. And I and
I and on that note, I will say our local representatives are very good and they're on the same page as you guys, right? And thank goodness. I mean, more of it seems to be getting right. But just remember, they need a majority to do it. Exactly. And the way the state is now, we're tied supposedly. But how do
we get these people, like I said, how we how can we arrange, you guys should know, how do we arrange to get these people together and let's say, okay, everybody on this side go to this side and everybody on that side go to that side and let's compare. That's the only way to true colors, right? I mean, they keep saying all this stuff, but how do you know it's true? Yeah. Let's get out
and see it. Good question. Yeah, good question. Thanks. Well, thanks, guys. Thank you. Connect. Anybody else in the audience that wishes to speak? My name is Chad Popp. I'm in Graham Township. I do uh strongly oppose the current proposed government government
center. I don't honestly I don't foresee that we need more space since co we had people more people working from home. We have shrinking government. We see it at the national level. It's happening at the state level. I think it has to happen at
the local level too. I think it's going to it has already. So I just don't foresee I I don't foresee we need to space. And as far as what you're proposing to do, I think
you need to step back and look and say, "Okay, I need to deal with the old courthouse building. How many people are in there? Can more people in there work from home? What do we really need?" Okay, maybe we look at doing this in in different phases. And okay, you do one
phase for phase one is for maybe 10 million, but you don't do that right now. Maybe you do that when your other debts paid off and you look at what you need at the current time. And also as far as I didn't
mention this far as space, you know, in the future, we got AI coming. It's already here. It's going to replace jobs. We I don't think we're going to need as many workers here. Are we really going to run around with them little stickers on our license plates in 10 years? I mean, there's got to be there's
got to be technology. It's probably here ready. I just I another thing too. So we've all heard our property taxes going up. Why don't you guys find the loophole and put it on our sales tax if you're going to do any sort of re renovation,
spend any amount of money so we all can pay for it. You can go look at anybody's property taxes online. Not everybody's paying property taxes. There's a lot of people exempt or get getting them reduced. So, put it on sales tax. We all
can pay for it. Whether whether it's doing part of it, I I think you're going for the home run right now. I think it needs to be looked at further further. What do we really need? When do we need it? What steps we need it to do
it more fiscally fiscally responsible. Thank you. Thanks, Mr. Chair. I just want to address Chad. Chad, I I appreciate the comments. the uh the I I will say you're probably one of very few that say keep them working from home. We've had a lot of people say bring them
back. Yeah. And if you do this building then I hope you bring them back. But I'm not against people working from home. They they have their place. Okay. Yeah. And and whatever you know certain certain jobs
and that's a whole another argument. It depends on the job and what they're doing. Okay. Hey, I'm not promoting working from home. I'm not saying bring them all back. The state now is bringing them back halfime. I hear, you know, okay, so maybe we bring ours half back halftime. But I think it's a combination
of working from home. You know, our technologies and AI coming. I I don't I don't really buy the fact that we need space. We need more room for growth. We got shrinking government. It has to shrink. It overexpanded. It It's going to shrink. It's shrinking at like I said all
levels. And then as for the sales tax deal, we we we've ran that up the flag pole. We can't even get the sales tax for the product of that that goes in the building to be exempt. That's being turned down right now. So, we've been
running avenues to get like Sterns County, they they they're doing a big building. they got their tax um that'll be that'll put be put on the sales tax, but that was that was because DOC made a lot of changes. They were able to get that run through the state government to to allow that to have a building like
this. We just they're not going to do it. And to further say in the sales tax option, we would have to have state legislature approval for that. Yeah. So, are you saying I just want for the records in front of all these people are you saying there's no way possible to ever put this on sales tax that it's
it's dead in the water can't happen unless we have state like this Chad very slim that you Okay. What do you need for state approval? We need the state legislative legislative to approve it. Okay. So, you're saying that's not possible? We can't even get them to approve the $500,000 worth of sales tax
for the product on our building. Exemption. the exemption. Yeah. So, they just said, "No, it's not going to happen. We're not in the bill. They don't have an appetite for it. We can't get anybody to author it." Um, I just want to make sure you you've gone through all the revenue or all the,
you know, that was checks and balances. You're putting this under property taxes. Obviously, nobody wants it under property taxes. So, is there another way to pay for it through sales tax? That's what that's, you know, I want to make sure you're I wish I wish we could. We even tried putting on sterns on their
building. We did. We asked the question. They wouldn't accept it. But I mean, you look at their $330 million job and we're we're 27. You know what I mean? It's peanuts to them. But they got theirs through because of some other avenues. All of our taxes have gone up. They're
going to continue to go up. And I I think you got to look at a different way. You know, I I think if you're going to get future support for this, you either got to look at phases and step back and say, "Okay, phase one, phase two, phase three." I'm not totally
sure costs are going to keep escalating the way they are. I think things are changing. Companies are looking for work. Labor's going to kind of level off or go down. We don't know what materials is going to do. Obviously, tariffs, all that. I think things are going to change. I I don't think they're going to keep escalating like crazy like they
were. It's just I probably agree with you, Chad, on that point. I I wish we'd have that crystal ball. Yeah. Nobody does. Right. Exactly. And and when you speak about AI, got approximately 120 people, I believe, that work in the human services department. AI ain't
going to take care of that. Ain't going to do nothing in that department alone. AI is not going to do nothing out in the public highway department. Ain't going to do nothing either, you know. So, so when you talk about AI, you know, I I agree with some of that,
but the majority of it is not going to work at the county level. Okay. Thank Thank you guys. Thank you. Thanks, Chad. Anybody else that wishes to speak otherwise? Anybody else? I just
want to make a a comment when he mentioned about working from home and a lot of the people in human services had to when you had co I have a daughter that's an RN she's a case coordinator and the majority she's got 183 patients I believe and the majority of the time
she works from home in her office and twice a week sometimes three times a week she goes and sees her patients otherwise she makes phone calls or whatever. Okay. and she's got a tiny little office in her house that she has to work from home from. So like human services, uh a lot of them are I said
before that are working from home and maybe some of these other jobs could be um done at home also. Um you mentioned about um the handicap coming in and I told you all the surgeries I've had 38 and I've been in walkers and wheelchairs
or whatever. uh the main uh places that a person has to go is right on your main floor. I mean, how many people go to the jail or how many you can walk right into the um uh the courouses, you know, there's no going steps or anything like
that. So, I mean, that's something a person has to look at. Like Chad said, there's options if people can work from home, get the same wages, and they can do some of their paperwork and stuff at home. Um, I think that's needs to get looked into more because you guys did it
uh during CO. Um, I had a a court case uh during CO and it was on a three-way call with a suspect that broke into my house. I didn't get to face him. I didn't get to see the attorneys. It was all done over the phone and he did it in in one of the rooms there.
So they accommodated the people during CO during that time and maybe you have to take a good look at that and say well we did it then and we didn't really have a whole lot of problems why can't we do try something like that again to save money so okay thank you I seen somebody
else wanted to get up and speak right Terry good evening board thank for taking the time to listen to everybody here everybody's got some strong concerns turns and as you do yourself. Um I work here in Benton County. I live over by
Gilman, so I live in Benton County either. So I know what the tax issue is about. I didn't get stuck with the ditch episode that some of the others did. Uh those poor people are are reeling from that. But I heard something tonight that
kind of bothered me because uh you talked about if we're going to remodel this part of the building, instead of building a new one, do a remodel that you're going to build another building on here because of uh mold and stuff that's down here. We've got public
health that's working down in the first floor. The reception area is on the first floor. They had uh a number of years they had someone come in to inspect that and they said there's no mold here. There's no problem. Terry, if I could, I don't think we said mold, but I think the comment was that
if we if we remodeled to bring it up to code, we would be out of the first floor. Those whoever's down there would be out. Yeah. It wasn't mold, it was cold. Code, not mold. Okay. So, what would what would be different that they're dealing with now compared to
what you would do here in the in the Well, we would have if we remove those employees from that floor, we'd have to have a space to put them. Right. But why would you be moving out of there though? If we remodel code not mold code would require code would drive
that. Okay. Code would drive that. Mold and we have seen more. Pete or Evan want to answer that? Yeah. Pete, any more comments on that? They they were not involved in that project. That was a veteran site. I'm not sure we can ask Pete to comment on on that particular issue. That was pre
pre-intontegrity. Okay. One of the issues with the HVAC system over there in the basement is that all the duck work runs through the base through the floor floor and to move it up and put it along overhead where it's has to be now keep the moisture from getting into the
duct work and stuff that you're located above head. There's no head space to do that. The ceilings are too low. Okay. Okay. I was just like I said I was concerned about the mold issue that we had seen earlier. No mold. No mold. We've we've had air quality sampling
done and it's okay. Yeah. Okay, that's it. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you, Terry. Anybody else that wishes to talk? Okay. All right. But I got just my but So, you said that the county is 1.6 million right now. Yep. Negative.
Because we spent 1.3 million of our taxpayer dollars. That's what's part of that 1.6. Or we're just 1.6. 1.6. six. Okay. So, what can we do as a county? Where can we take borrow from this area to help out this area here at the
courthouse? Who's are you guys the five people that are in charge of the budget? Yes. All right. So, how how to do this without raising taxes? Like he brought up, we should maybe, you know, tax our
whatever, do different things. What can we do that wouldn't propose us to have our taxes keep going up? I mean, what kind of system is it when you're doing your budget that we're not going to get hammered again for the next 10 years to
pay for this? I I think the easy answer is can we agree that all the taxpayers in the county pay for everything that happens here? So everything and anything we do, we all pay for. Correct. So whether we put it in uh raised levy
amount for capital improvement plans, whether we go for bonding, however we finance it, it's all on all of our backs. Okay. So when we know that the furnace is out twice, okay, we prioritize these things and do we go,
okay, this is the first thing we need to fix. So every year when it comes to budget time, property management in this case comes and presents what the plans are for the next five years. for example, we need to put carpet in this room. We need to paint those 40 rooms. We need to replace the boilers. We've
got to do a roof. We've got to do a generator. And so all those budget proposals come in front of us and we decide what we're going to do for those next five years. We do that every year. And those things can change based off potentially what happens. I mean, we're budgeting, so we're doing our best guess
at what we see coming for the next year. And those budget dollars are paid for all by all of us. So maybe we need to streamline more money into the courthouse for the renovations and not make it a okay one and done deal. We're going to spend $20ome,000 and maybe we
take a little bit from the roads or the other house or for the see that old house not the courthouse. So so you look at how old it is. That courthouse has been there for the new one for how long? Almost 25 years. Almost 25 years. I'm talking about the I know. But everybody
still references this as the courthouse. That's my apologies. Yeah. So, what I'm saying is I think you're elected officials. We're trusting you with our money. And you got 90% of the county screaming right now, let's not do this.
And let's get together and brainstorm, do whatever it takes not to spend the money that we have to be spending. Like I feel like the 1.3 million was a waste because we need to use that money to streamline to fix what we've got. M Mr.
In all fairness, this isn't 90% of the county screaming. It's 90% of this room screaming. And and in all fairness, the last meeting that we had here in Foley, there was what, four or five people out of the 20 people that were here that
came up and and told us they're all for it. but didn't want to say anything because of what happened out in the audience. And that audience actually one of the people that actually stood up and said something got verbally attacked out by a vehicle.
Well, I don't plan on verbally attacking you. No, but but that's what happened. But that's but that's all all honesty what happened that night. And when we go to Rice, it wasn't at all like that. No. No. And we went to Sock Rapids. It wasn't at all like that. So, I don't
know where it hasn't been like that tonight either, though. No, it hasn't. No, no, it hasn't been like that tonight either. And and you know, maybe we have to do the petition and then and honestly, that petition takes all of us off the hook because it stops the whole project, right? And the other the
problem will be is how to come up with the money to do the repairs to make this work without going overboard on spending another 20 thou $20 million. To me, that's Yep. I feel like sometimes when
you guys were talking, my impression was, are we doing this for the people? Are we doing this for the workers? Because it it kind of I felt both ways about that. Like, why are we doing this? Why are we putting this up? And to me,
when you do all the bells and whistles, that sounds like you're doing it for the workers and not for the people. And maybe maybe Pete could speak to this. And Evan, are is this building bells and whistles? Absolutely not. No, it it's really not the new building. I'm talking
about No, the new the new building is is really not bells and whistles. A drive-thru? I mean, doesn't that seem like a lot of money that we're spending? I mean, couldn't we just dumb it down and say this is what we got? So, if we took out the drive-thru, would this
group be okay? No. I mean I mean I mean there's a lot of things that could be taken out but I don't think is there an elevator? Yes. Okay. I mean like if you just went through and said, "Okay, this is what we're going to do." I feel like you're getting this max amount of money
and you're going to spend it all and is it necessary? Can you bring it down to our level of hey let's just do this instead of just to bring our current elevator up to code is what almost 70
grand. Yeah. 60 to75. So why put a new elevator in an area a new building because it's cold. We It's Yeah, it's two stories. Yeah. No, we're talking this building. No, I'm talking about the building. the
new building have an elevator. I don't think the footprint over there would allow us to have that big of a one-story building. No, would not allow no future growth. Okay. So then with that being said, now you're talking future growth and we're talking about D downsizing. Okay. That's like we are
we're not evening that out. And then we're not using the area over there for for the new facility. So, you know, you bought a a piece of property that it's only going to be built up. Maybe you should have bought a
piece of property where it was big enough to just have a one level and maybe save some money. I'm just saying, you know, you're spending our money. Please look at it a little bit closer because to me, an elevator in this new building, that's unnecessary. And I I
feel like we're doing it a lot for the county workers, which I've said before, they do a good job. I' I'm happy with them, but it should be for the the people because it's our tax dollars along with yours because you all pay taxes, but you're also getting paid a
fee to be up there and doing your job, too. So, I'm just saying I I think it's going to come back. We're going to get the numbers. Take that into consideration. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody
else? Go ahead. Hi, I'm Becky Lesniak. I work at human services. I've been there for 17 years. Um, mainly down in the first floor where you don't want us to be. Um, I'd like to talk about Eastgate, why we still are
renting a building over there for $7,000 a month. why we couldn't have got out of the lease or we could have got out of the lease. You renewed it. Why do we have to have Eastgate over there? Because mostly it was supposed to be for the financials so people could come and we could help them that live on the east
side of St. Cloud, but then they closed the doors and now it seems like there's just a handful of social service people over there. We weren't building. I wasn't on I I'll let somebody else answer to that. I wasn't on the board when we rented that. So we when we first
rented it, we got shut down by CO. Okay. So we went into a lease and we couldn't use it for a year and a half. Okay. So then we decided we're going to open it up again and then we put people over there. Correct, Monty? We put No, we never really got people over there.
Yeah. Well, right now we have what 14 15 people from daytoday. It's used for some folks as drop in. I think maybe 10 12 on a on a regular basis and other folks come in on drop in. They use the conference room and so on. Yeah. We have 30 people that work from home that live
out in that area. So they also use that facility every day too. Right. But if you want to save money, so I rent that building whole big building then we'd have to find a place for him here. So we do have room. I I work in human
services. We have empty offices. Really? I I thank you. I work from home threequarters of the time. I work in the office maybe one week per month. I've worked downstairs for 17 years. Haven't had cancer yet. Thank goodness.
Yeah, I will say the downstairs is bad. Yeah, but I asked for a coat of paint maybe a month or two ago. Let's paint the lobby. Let's make it look a little better. I was told you will not get a coat of paint to paint this lobby because I think deliberately you people wanted to make
it look so bad for everybody to come in and see that you just ignored all this stuff to get I've been on for four years. I didn't deliberately do this for 44 and 125 years. I've been on this board for four years. Right. I didn't deliberately do anything. Right. No.
Well, I think it it I think the things deliberately got not taken care of is what I'm saying. Okay. Well, that was the things could have been fixed up as it went. You know, our lobby could have been fixed up. Right now, it looks like crap. You know, it could have been fixed
up. Um, so I think we could save 7,000 there with that East Gate plus the utilities we have to pay, the internet we have to pay. Um, uh, Becky, just so we're clear, if the building gets built, Eastgate goes away.
We're not going to continue Eastgate. So, just so we're clear about that, I have a hard time believing that, but Okay. Okay. Um, so did you guys look at just building the building for human services over there? Not this section over here, just for human services. How
much would it cost for just a human service building? Because this is newer. This was remodeled not that long ago. You put the four big TVs up which must have cost thousands of dollars and what are they used for? The four big TVs that are
sitting out there. What are they used for? What do what do we use them? Why are they there? Does anybody know? Which four are all the TVs that are above the DMV and the wherever they are out there?
Have to see them. They're as big as this. They're not. And what do we use them for? They're They're for DMV. Yeah. But what though? For the ticket. I don't know. Kiosk and stuff like that. I mean, what what do you want us to say? That's a huge expense to buy those. It was a
huge expense to remodel this section and now you want to bring everybody over there when the main concern is human services. And that's the main concern that you should be looking at is human services. Do you guys know how much it would cost? Have you looked at that
about just building for human services? Has that been discussed? No, because we felt the priority was all departments, not just human services. I I I don't think this actually there's a priority. You remodeled not that long ago. I mean, you put a lot of money into this area.
How long ago was that, Monty? 27 years ago. 27 years ago. That was Yeah. But it's still doable. I mean, I I don't understand why you think you have to build a new We do have to we do have to address it and land services. I mean
land services is just busting at the seams. Mhm. And it is a very big risk factor in it over there. Well and ultimately like like the board has said if we start digging into this building to do
remodeling we have to bring everything up to code. That that's not our choice. That has to be done. It has to be brought up to code. But you're saying 23 million is with adding on a new building over here. That's the estimate approximate approximate estim. So how
much of that is for renovating this building? What part of that is for that and what part is for the building? Rough number Pete or Evan? Rough number debate. It was somewhere in that 14 million that remodel I would say
just off the cuff probably 8 n but same time too you were recreating a parking lot to absorb the parking spaces you would this place with the addition in the back that person thing with that parking lot they want us to park over here and walk over to that building now
when it's 20 30 40 below and you have to walk from there to there that's awfully cold for one and then I suggested whether drive in DMV is don't have that. Make it a parking lot for the employees. Yeah. You know, I
was told there wasn't going to be enough space over there. Have you really looked at it? Take off the DMV part of it. Evan, could you answer that? Has that been looked at? I don't know the stall count for you right now, but it's minimal in
comparison to what you mean. We don't have a lot of people that work in it. Evan, ballpark on the on what because this was brought up at other meetings. So ballpark on what that DMV drive up the cost of that DMV drive up
cost 30,000 maybe for that drive up and that's probably with the service window not including the asphalt things that so 100,000 I don't know I I'm going to I would vote against it having a new building and I
work here um okay I mean if we can't even get bulletproof glass or security system like we've asked for for many years in human services and we're always told no, we're always shut down. So if we can't even get that, I don't
know how you think we can get a new building. Okay, that's just that's just me personally. So thank you for listening. I appreciate the time. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else? Are we able to ask a question if we're
attending virtually? Sure. Just do it. Okay. Hi there. Can we take the virtual one first? All right. Go ahead. State your name and your address. Certainly. Jane Lateral in the city of Foley. I'm also an employee of the county. I just
have a couple questions. What has been the discussion of what will happen with the old building if the new building is built? Jane, I I maybe answer um this is Commissioner Johnson. um a couple different options and I I really need to
make sure that we all understand that these discussions are in the very preliminary uh stages because we haven't made a decision on the building yet. So, we can't finalize our plans for the future. Couple different options potentially. Um federally qualified
health care center, uh dental clinic for MA clients. Um, maybe we, again, I'm speaking hypothetically here, so I want I want to make very clear about that. Maybe the property goes back on the tax rules somehow. Maybe there's market rate apartments
that go in here. Maybe um it has a lower level floor or ground floor level that would have um a coffee shop, a food court type of thing, uh exercise area. I don't know. But there's all kinds of things that we could potentially do. And maybe at the
end of the day, the best answer is going to be to get it back on the tax roles. But there have been very preliminary discussions about what some options are, but again, we haven't gotten real deep into the weeds because we haven't committed to a new building yet. Does that make sense? So, we we can't agree to something until we know we're doing
something else. Certainly, I I understand that. Just something to keep in mind. If the county decides they're going to keep the building, there's going to be needing funding to maintain it, right? So, in addition to the new
building, right? So, our intent, again, our intent is we would divest of this facility. We don't want to own it. And so, if another uh clinic, for example, comes in or if the thing gets raised and there's going to be a whole new uh building put here, we're not going to be
involved in that. We're going to divest ourselves from this facility completely. We don't want to be paying for maintenance or anything to this building if we build new. I see. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay. Somebody else was Go ahead. Just
like the past projects, how about we get like bids, hard numbers of exactly what it's going to be before we even Very good point. So, let me walk through the calendar a little bit again. So, tonight we're having this public hearing. If the board chooses to make the decision to approve the funding mechanism, which is
the bond, that's all you're doing is approving that. That's our funding mechanism. That's how we could pay for it. May 29th, correct me if I'm wrong, Pete. May 29th is our established bid opening date. We will know that day what things are going to cost. Don't you
usually get the cost before you ask how much? We've only gotten estimates. And uh Pete, could you talk about that? the process that we have to go through to get to this point today. Or Evan, if you wouldn't mind. Yes. In order to get a Pete, could we ask you to come to the
mic, please? Thank you. Sorry. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but and Pete, can you introduce yourself for the folks here? Pete Philip, Integrity Group, construction manager for the county. Uh, in order to get to this spot, you need a set of documents. And those documents were developed as gentleman spoke earlier in the last year
and a half two years of these meetings to get to what we call construction documents which are the plans and specifications. As of recent they've been finished throughout this process and timeline. Uh state statute uh dictates that we need to send those out for three published times in the legal
newspaper of the county. We're currently through that process and May 29th at 2 p.m. we'll be opening bids uh publicly here. Uh at that point, we'll go back and qualify the low response of bids per Minnesota state statute and present them
to the county board later in June. So So I'm sorry. Go ahead, Pete. Yeah, it's at that point we'll actually have the hard numbers basically in a competitive bid process ready to present to the county with with those hard documents. It lays out everything. HVAC, it lays everything
out through the whole building. If we don't have hard documents, people are just going to give us estimates. And if we go with their estimates and we go with what they're providing for an estimate, what happens is there's going to be tons of change orders. And that's
when the buildings get very expensive. So, we got to go through this process to have everything laid out so that everybody is bidding the same on the same products. Absolutely. Yes. And that's part of statute. It's part of competitive bidding. And it's not based on estimates or assumptions because
things change. Markets change. I know people talked earlier in some of the public meetings. We're concerned about tariffs and things like that. Some of those things may or may not have an impact. We'll flush that all out on the 29th. So, this dollar amount at
29,700,000 was just an estimate that we received of what we think we can build a building for. That is correct. best guess of what that building's going to cost with current conditions. Thank you, Jared. Would you, Miss uh Pete, real
quick, would you say that we took from the construction standpoint the normal route? Yes. Every county and public agency that we've represented, we have not deviated. And matter of fact, you have met more as a board on this project than most that I had in the last 29
years of doing this. And and Pete, could I just confirm that too because, you know, again, I want to pound this transparency thing because we've tried really hard to do this. I know Mike Leandowski, I think, asked about if we had a building committee. We didn't do that. We had all five commissioners at
every meeting. Yes. Very unusual, but it was very transparent. Everything was held in public forums and uh I think it was well vetted that way. Thank you. Okay. Any other questions? Oh, he's probably took an average cost per square
foot, I'm guessing, then is how you come up with this. They actually got Yep. Just the estimate. Just anybody else. I have uh Michael Depa. I have one more comment that's to Miss Benoy. You
mentioned about the boiler system or whatever it is. if we had to renovate um under American Disability Act, I don't believe you're correct on that. If they had to come to the front of the facility and say they had to make it handicap
accessible to the front, I don't think you would have to take the rest of the building and make it ADA accessible. If you needed to put new doors in to make it handicap accessible for the American Disability Act for handicap people, I
think uh the board and the people could do that. I don't think you would have to have everything else in the building up to code period. If it's something that needs to be corrected, meaning if we don't have a handicap accessible
bathroom for people, that doesn't mean we'd have to put the handicap accessible bathroom. And if we needed one, you could put that handicap accessible bathroom in for the public and pay for it. we would not have to make the rest
of the facility handicap accessible or up to code code code or ADA. I didn't say anything about ADA first. Well, I said is building code. ADA stands for American Disability Act.
Yeah. Okay. So, that's that's that's code under under American Disability Act, you have to follow code. If we have if we have something that's not up to code, it has to be up to code with the
American Disability Act. We need to follow those rules need to be followed. Okay. Another thing is is that was mentioned is um about backing up the servers for if the computer room or whatever went went
down that system should be backed up every day and those discs sent someplace out of the building if there was a fire. We talked about what if the whatifs. We have insurance if if and if it burnt. We have
insurance that it's going to get rebuilt. Am I correct or not on that? The insurance would cover the construction of it. Yes, you're correct. Now, you can't take all that electronics in that room and move them off site. So, you're going to lose that whole room and
the ability to work from that room for probably two weeks minimum. Okay. I I understand that. Okay. But that shuts the county down. You can't I mean you're not able all your network resides there. You you off storage all of your all of
your uh um backup. So you can you can bring you don't so Jared we don't have a backup to the backup. Yes you back it up to the cloud or you back it up to um virtual servers but you can but you still need your hard network to bring it
back in. Our IT director is right there too if we want to ask a question. But that you we would our county would be down for a period of time if that if that was if that room was taken out without a doubt with the boiler system. I don't believe it should have got that
far if it's going out twice a year with the preventive maintenance. There's preventive maintenance and I know you weren't involved on the on the board or whatever, but there's money that's set aside to keep everything up to code and up to keep things running. We just don't
run it in the ground and then all of a sudden say, "Hey, we need a new building." There's one other comment and I appreciate I appreciate you guys taking the time to let the public hear is is that you build a
building and the building's probably used nine hours out of the day. I don't know. Maybe 10. Am I right? Depends. Depends. Okay. Depends. It's going to be used for those 10 hours out of the day. It's not used on weekends.
It's not used on holidays and we're going to spend that kind of money. I don't see leaving a building empty and paying that kind of money. If we don't have the space for individuals
for working or whatever, maybe we need to utilize our services better and change the hours. Not every not everybody goes to work at 8 to 5 or 7 to 3. We need to utilize our manpower and
our woman power and our people power to make things work. I think spending the type of money that we're that's on the table now is not a good idea. I I just
believe that the money that you have put into the project is great, but like we mentioned, we stuck 1.3 million into doing the research on it. Mr. Gapinsky said that we only have 1.6 million of
debt. Let's kill the debt and make things work. They're working now. They're working now. And we're not putting a band-aid on it. This isn't a band-aid. I live in a 1930 house.
I can't afford to go put up a new home and pay 9, 10, $12,000 on taxes just to have that. I don't think we just need to have this. We have to separate our needs
from our wants. Is this something we need? I don't believe it's something we need. I believe that we need to do the right thing and maintain what we have. We can't put the burden on the taxpayers
of Benton County because where is it going to end? It's got to end someplace. And I thank you people for your time and I hope they utilize the time. Maybe some people need to work 3
to 11 or maybe they need to work 9 to 6 or whatever those hours are. We have to extend our services. there's somebody that can change and come in and revamp and do schedules. Not everything runs on 7 to three. So I thank you
people for your time. Right. Thanks Mike. Miss Chair, you may recall we had the remarks from uh Mr. Barley that on the letters and then would you like me to read that into the record? We'll do a final call for anybody that wants to speak. Final call for anybody that wants to
speak. Hi, I'm Deborah Olsen and I live Would you go to the mic a little closer? And I live here in Foley. And granted, I don't like to spend extra money where it's not needed. I use,
reuse, and make do with what I have. But then as I went through the tour in this building, and I'm sorry, there's things that do need to happen. Human services.
Yes. I don't know if any anyone else has worked in healthc care in a larger metropolitan, but it's going to come here. And we do not have what I call a panic button. So if
something arises, my god, they are not going to get to those workers that are in those offices. If I worked in this building, I would hate to come to work every single
day because of the lack of space and I on top of my neighbors trying to get my own work done. And I've heard other employees mention that it gets awfully
loud. They cannot think in order to get their own work done because of their co-workers being too loud. Now, if you're looking at this building and you're remodeling it, well, you're going
to have to look at down the road almost the same amount of money to redo something else that you're going to find. I'm all in favor of the new building. I do not like the idea of
paying more taxes. I should have been retired a long time ago. And yes, I continue to work so I can live, pay my bills, but I would like our county
employees to work in a safe environment. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, last call for anybody else, otherwise we're going to close the public hearing. I just have one question. um when that Jane Lateral um
mentioned about the building and I asked you also what you were going to do with that building and you explained it to her. So you would have to upgrade the codes. Can you come to the mic again please? So
hard for me. Um you had mentioned to Jane lateral that um you'd have to upgrade the codes and I had asked you that also what you were going to do with the building. Um, so, um, until you would sell it, you'd have, like that lady said, you'd have the new building and you'd have expenses for this
building until you sold it. Um, so the people that would buy purchase it and took that this building on would have to pay for the coding upgrade. Is that correct? Correct. For whatever for whatever they want to do. So, like say
they put a dental office in here or a health clinic part of it or whatever. Y So, that would have to be uh put on your bill of sale of what that they would have to stick into this building in order to make it a dental office. No,
no, we'd sell it as is. As is. So, you don't have to sell it. We'd be better off if we had to sell it for a dollar. Yep. And then realizing that they're going to have to spend some money in here potentially. That's if the whole thing stays. I mean, so you don't have to like like when you have a house and
you're selling it as is or you're selling it to somebody and you're saying, "Well, this, you know, this is uh we did this a year ago." You have to be upfront when you're selling your house and um you know, this is bad. And if you don't list that, um, say you have mold,
black mold in your basement and you don't list it and you quick put a coat of paint over or put a sheetrock over it or something and you sell this house and down the road these people find out, hey, they never told us about this that um, they sold this house to us and this
stuff was bad. So that my question is to you if you sold this and you have to uh let the new buyer know even if it is asis say hey this is what's bad in the building we've got this witness in the basement we've got this and this and
this are you do you have to I mean I I would think that would be some sort of a law that you have to if you homeowners have to do it that you guys would have to say you know if you're going to buy this as is it's a dental office and the reason we had to build a new building is because we needed the duck work done
this and this and this and this. Well, so you have to be upfront with them too then. Right. But some of that ma'am the the building you're you're talking about that would have to be demoed and done with. We're talking more about this part the that's why I asked you earlier what you were going to do with the whole
building once. Yeah, we got to demo the the old one if we move forward with this. Okay. Um and I just want to get back one more time. If the people go in the 30 days and they vote this down, and like I said before, the lady said, um,
you can come back in 180 days and you can propose it to the people again. How many of times are you going to be allowed to do that if your constituents keep shooting you down over and over? There won't be 180 days cuz I think we've got a pretty good agreement that it won't nothing will happen if you if
the reverse referendum happens. nothing's going to happen till the 2026 general election and that's the only way the pe you know that's when the people would get to say and if they voted down then we're done it's over okay so on
this referendum reversal thing um you mentioned you have 30 days from tonight that takes you into June right but the gentleman over here said that you're getting proposals already for bids on the 29th of May that's before you even got the constituents to sign off whether
they want this or not. You're getting bids already. That was the the estimated time. And um what's his name? Can talk about that. We are getting bids to actually see what a new facility would actually cost. We do not at that point
in time have to make a decision yet and nor could we make a decision yet until after the 30 days are up. Yes. See what happens after that. And even after those 30 days, it'll be another two weeks because we got to get it ratified to make sure that everybody lived in the
county. Thank you. Okay. Yes, Jim. One more time. Just one question. Sure. So, you're proposing 297 or whatever 30 million. What if it comes in at 35? What's done? Because we're we've only approved 297,
right? That's the point of the tonight. That's our plan. I mean, I did a lot of building and I was just wondering, you know, I bid a house and it comes in higher. Are you going to re revamp and try to rework and come back at a lower price? No. Type of building. And and correct me if I'm wrong, Peter, Evan, but there's what kind of contingencies
put into the 297 estimate. I'd like to know 5% here. I'd have to go back and pull, but we had a 5% contingency built into the project. Plus, I think we had a 2 or 3% bid contingency, but I would need to go back
and pull that estimate to verify exactly those numbers. Right. So, again, Jim, because you've been involved in this, we're going to open the bids, right? And we're going to find that out. And so, we've built contingencies into the design development. We've come up with the 29.7 million estimate. We're going to find out on the 29th what it really
is. So, your hard number is 297. If we approve the funding tonight, that's the hard number. That's hard. And then and and even if we approve the funding mechanism tonight, we can throw it down the toilet tomorrow. Well, I understand. I mean, yeah. Okay. I just want to make sure. Yeah. You know, to
Commissioner Heinen's point is it'll start that 30-day window. I know. Get the the bids on the 29th and then once we're into June, we'll have the information and we'll have to make a decision. That's really kind of the drop dead date. Yeah. Well, that's Yeah. Most
of people I think are a lot of people that didn't come tonight said told me because I talked to Ed and I knew different but they told me it's a done deal. I'm not wasting money. No, you know that is on the street. That's unfortunate. Yeah. And and that what's
really unfortunate is you heard from from Pete from Integrity. We've been so transparent on this whole Yeah. Understand that, you know, but I I can get a letter in the mail. Benton County garbage pickup day tomorrow. Yeah, I get that too. Yeah, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I
know. A little waffling. Okay. Thanks, Jim. Now, how are we gonna send out like for the next meeting? Everybody does see that it's already posted, right? So, what what what next meeting? Well, the So, the next meeting would be Well, the the public bid opening is the 29th.
So, the bid the bids are due to integrity. I'm sorry. The auditor's office uh May 29th by 2 p.m. Uh the board has scheduled the next meeting to consider the bids either to accept or reject for June 10th at 8:30 a.m. Yep.
And if we get this reverse referendum back, we're going to have to delay that because we got to validate the reverse referendum. Correct. So just because just because we have it set doesn't mean that we're voting that day. If this comes back with the what is it 1,147
signatures, right? Signatures. Then we have to put everything on hold and get it validated. Yeah. Okay. And and that'll take approximately two more weeks. Yes. At least I would say yes. It's valid. It's valid. It's done. There's a lot of people I think that think this is already done. So Oh, yeah.
There's This has never been done. This But is there Can we put it in the paper other than this? It'll be in the paper. Yeah. He's the paper. At this point, chair, do I have Mr. A billboard right now? I think she want chair. Do I have the permission to read
Mr. Barley's comments? I think she wants make it quick. Could you p make it really quick? Once if if they would get those 11, 1100 or whatever 1,147. Yep. How much will it cost us to get those validated?
I believe we have to do that in house. It's in house. So, it's going to take a staff member's time. two weeks two weeks time to do it. So, that's going to cost our our county money. Also, the reason I'm up here is I'm I'm not against having the new courts or the new
government center. I know that there's money that we're going to have because we're going to have um a better DMV that will be able to be more they'll have more services. How much money will that possibly bring into our county? We don't know. I think I can address last year,
Christine, if you're still here. uh if you correct me if I'm wrong, 24 we brought in $280,000 in revenue in the DMV. So then that could increase. The intent is for that to increase because if we're going to have a DMV, we want full services. Sock Rapids has a place
where they rent out just like community room. Community room. Will will the community room here be able to be rented out? Yes. So that's another increase in well possible revenue. I mean it it may not be a lot, but it's still something. And that that's kind of why I said maybe
to Mike's point is we don't know the hours because hopefully people are using that Pam. That's I see people there in Sock Rapids on Saturdays, on Sundays. I mean I know people rent it all the time because I've been at multiple things. The the big that's a big pain in the butt. The community room in my area
because they don't feel that they should be paying for community room in Foley where they are never going to be able to use. They could use it if they want it, but why would they drive to to Foley? Well, Commissioner Pop, I I guess my argument to that would be is and you know, we've been arguing about this. The same phone call I got. I get a phone
call from somebody who doesn't want to pay for the gravel on County Road 54 in Granite Ledge because they never drive on it. Yeah. Y I I get it. But I don't know how we dissect this to who is using what with 42,000 people. I mean, I just We almost got by with ditch without
ditches. Yeah. I didn't hear your comment, Nick. What was it? What about drainage? We're not talking about I worked in the nursing home for 14 years. I look at these doors to go through. I've brought in residents to this building. It is not Yeah. easy to bring residents in this
building. Yeah. Go through this door with a wheelchair. Okay. That wouldn't happen. I mean, you couldn't turn into their restroom. Yeah. But who? There's there is people that would have asked to come to the county board meetings. Yeah. That are handicapped accessible or that this isn't handicapped accessible. So
looking at that, that's not okay. There would be there'd have to be finishes. I mean there you know as well as I do that they couldn't get through those doors to go to the bathroom. So I'm just saying like there's there's other things that need to be done in this building, not just
right the little things. Okay. So we've had final call for that. So now we're going to close the public hearing. Is there any emails or letters? I know we have one letter that needs to be read into the record. Yes, sir. May I May I proceed? Thank you. Uh, so these
are comments from uh uh Mr. Jake Barley. Uh Jake was a former county commissioner and he's also res. Your mic on, Monty. My mic is on. My mic is on. Swallow it. You know, you know, uh, okay. So, here's
what uh, uh, Mr. Barley says. Um, he has a project proposal for a courthouse administrative building. I'm going to try and paraphrase this a little bit. His his objective is to address the need for updated facilities while minimizing the tax impact and maintaining accessibility for the community. And
here's his proposed plan. His first step would build build a new administrative building, construct a state-of-art administrative facility across the road from the current courthouse. Uh the building would accommodate all departments except human services, providing a modern and efficient workspace, reducing strain on the old
courthouse. Then he says the next step is remodel the the newest section which would basically be the 1974 edition and this one here the 81 edition uh to exclusively house human services that will optimize utilization of the existing structure and maintain a
centralized location for this essential department. His next step is says maintain the east side of the eastgate facility as you know it says partner with Sterns and Sherburn counties to continue operating the east side escape facility that will meet the demands of East St. cutter residents and ensure
accessible services across the region. And here's his expected benefits. It minimizes the tax burden by balancing new construction costs with remodeling expenses. Enhance functionality and efficiency of administrative and human services operation. Continued service
coverage for all parts of the community, particularly the east side. And here's his next. So he says, engage with stakeholders, including county representatives and community members to refine the proposal. conduct feasibility studies for the new administrative building and courthouse
remodeling. Develop a detailed budget and timeline for each phase of the project. And then finally, he concludes by saying, "Additionally, the phase process allows more time for assessing the involving needs of the community and tailoring the project accordingly. By
adopting this measured approach, Ben County can ensure that resources are allocated efficiently while accommodating unforeseen factors such as demographic shifts or changes in service demand. This strategy not only mitigates immediate financial risk, but also
provides a foundation for sustainable development that aligns with long-term community goals. And any other emails, comments that went before the county? No, sir. Okay, there's your copy.
Was there any official actions affecting townships or cities? No, sir. The county board will now have time for questions of staff and discussion. As a reminder to the audience, the public hearing is now closed. Is there any questions from board members before we take any action or
whatever comments? Anybody want to comment? Other than that, we need to do something, right? We we truly need to do something. We've looked at a lot of options. People probably don't believe us. We've been
transparent. And the one option was remodeling and adding adding an addition over here to accommodate all of the services. And when we got a rough estimate of that at $23
million and then we looked at the rough estimate of $29 million, to me that was an easy sell for a new facility. Instead of trying to remodel something that's been remodeled time and time again and
you still gain no future space, you're just remodeling the old space. I mean, they've done that numerous times in this facility and you've never gained any more space. They tried to make it more efficient and at the end of the
day, it still didn't work. So, how long do we have to keep remodeling two or three old facilities? Just my point, Mr. Chair. Yes. Um, we all struggle with this and and we
go back and forth. We we there's one day we're for it, one day we're against it. One day we're for it, one day we're against it. This isn't easy. We pay the same taxes you guys do. Um just different areas, whatever. But this is this is one step in the process. And and I I'm going to be honest, I'm going to
vote for the the the bonding, the CIP tonight because it's going to allow us to get those numbers. It's going to allow time for the reverse referendum to take place. And if the people speak, the people speak. gets off from my standpoint to 26 um election. So, um if
we if we vote this this funding mechanism down tonight, we don't everybody stops on the on on on getting these numbers in, who knows? Maybe they come in at 26 million, you know, then then you look at it and go, okay, maybe it makes a little bit of a difference
out there. Maybe maybe this uh reverse referendum comes in with, you know, 1,500 votes on it or or signatures on it. That automatically puts it away. You know what happens if this referendum that everybody's talking about comes back with
300? Then we sit back and go, "Oh my, what did what do we do?" So there's a lot of whatifs. So I I'm going to vote to keep the process going. Allow the timing for the reverse referendum. Allow the numbers to come in. so everybody can see what the actual
numbers were on this facility and go from there. That doesn't mean I'm voting for the building to go forward. That means there's there's more steps in the process and we all control the destiny here. Mr. Chair, and I agree with Commissioner Gapinsky. I will be voting
for this too because this is just one part of the process to get to the finish line of either yes we do it or no, we don't do it because we don't have hard numbers. Okay. M Yeah, Mr. Chair, just a couple quick comments. I just want to make sure
and I want to be very respectful of the reverse referendum, that's an option that the public has and that we will respect. Um, I I think it behooves us to make sure everybody understands that if the reverse referendum goes through and stops the project and we get projected
out to the November 26th ballot and the 42,000 people whoever registered in this county, 20,000, whatever that number is, if they approve this building, you're looking at an additional $2 to $3 million. I I just we have to be clear about that because I would hate for you
to come back to us to your point earlier and say, "Why didn't you build it when it was this? Now, it's going to cost us this. I'm not Again, you have the option to do the reverse referendum. That's your right. I respect it and you should do it if that's how you feel. But I just I want to be so crystal clear that if
the countywide vote comes back in 26 approving this, we're spending more money. So, I just I want to be clear about that. Right. So, my take on this a little different. One is that on the 10 years I've been on the county board, we struggled to make sure our taxes were
low. Now we've got the school districts in both Foley and Sakra Rabbits putting huge levies on our deal. We have uh state cuts that are going to mandate a lot of things that are going to be pushed down to the counties. Federal government, as my nephew spoke, we don't know where that's going. We won't know
for that probably till 2026. We have union negotiations with our employees this year. And then we have paid family leave. I don't know if I can stomach moving forward with this right now because of all the time. The timing just
really stinks. And I think that this county board should have the ability to look forward and tell the people that, you know, maybe we need to step back and look at where we're at and where we need to go before we push any further. I
mean, granted, we spent 1.3 million bucks, and that's a lot of money that we've already spent, but that's not all wasted money because it'll always be there, whether it's 27, 28, or 29, whenever it goes forward. Some of that will still be in the plans. But I just
have a hard time stomach stomaching about where we were and where we're going to go. I mean, this this is a 8 7 8 6% levy on your taxes if this moves forward. And I don't I don't believe that today Benton County residents can
handle that. Well, we're not voting on the building today, right? I just want to make sure we're clear. It sounds like we are. It sounds like we are. It sounds like it, Commissioner. I'm making a point that I don't know if we should move forward from this point on. Okay. You don't even want to see the numbers commit. I don't
want to see the numbers. Oh, thank you. Are we I'll make my comments, please. Um, this is a hell of a time to run for a new office and only be on here for 3 months, let me tell you.
But I am so torn between this whole thing. Wasting money is not my thing at all. And so this is this is a very hard decision for me. So, at this point, it's not going to cost us anymore to get those money th
those numbers to come back. I want to see what those true numbers are and not go off an estimate. Um, so we have at least some idea. We already spent $1 million on on this project already.
Um, why not see where those numbers are going to come in at, where those actual physical numbers are going to come in at. So, um, at this point, I would vote just for the not for the building, but for the CIP just to go forward so we can
see what those estimates are or what those actual bids are coming in at. Okay, Commissioner Pop, I think to your point and I share your sentiment. I I really do. I understand the timing part of it. It really does suck. And one of
the hard things for us here is that we all have a very big fiduciary responsibility to these people and to the other 40,000 people in this county. And it's not just building potentially for tomorrow if we do this. This is a long-term thing. We're expecting our county to grow, which then we're
expecting services probably to grow. I think we would be we would be in error to think that services aren't going to grow with an an increasing population. Um I agree it's a terrible time. It's frustrating to me that other entities and and I'm not involved in those
entities, but we've got the Sock Rapids referendum. We've got the Foley HVAC levy. We've got our drainage assessments coming out of our these poor land owners on the east end are taking a hammering. And yet at the same time, we're responsible to look long-term at the
county's plans today. And I feel like our hands get tied because of all these outside pressures. And I understand these outside pressures. empathetic to him. I really do get it. And to your point, my taxes are going up. So are yours.
Everybody's. And so that's the situation. I And I just say that from my heart because that's where we're at. It it to Commissioner Gabinsky's point, I've I've talked to him about this. You'd asked me yesterday, I might have said no. You'd asked me today, it might be yes. And tomorrow is I don't know. So
that's just honestly where we're at. I sit with the other four or excuse me, three commissioners. I want to see the numbers. We've come this far. There's really no additional cost. Let's find out what the numbers are, get into June, and make our decision. Well, and if that
reverse referendum comes in, we won't have to worry about this board. It it literally takes everything off this board. Yes. Well, that that's where I have a little bit of more of a concern is if that the reverse referendum will come up, um I am not willing to put that burden
on the taxpayers. I will not put the burden of what we got today and what we know on the taxpayers of Benton County cuz I've been there, seen that. But but that's that's assuming we're going to vote yes for it when the numbers come in. Yeah. Right. Are we said we've we
don't know about that. Yeah. I mean Yeah. We don't know. I I'm not So So, Mr. Chair, uh the the requested action before you tonight uh can be found on your agenda item as number two. Again, the number two on your agenda item. We've conducted your public
hearing and the next one is potential action on item number two on your agenda. Correct. Yes, sir. So, here's where we stood. We're looking for action on this. I'll make a motion to uh adopt a
resolution giving preliminary approval for the insuence of the county general obligation capital improvement plan bonds in the amount not to exceed 29,700,000 and adopt Benton County 2025
2029 capital improvement plans as presented. I'll second motion been made and seconded. Is there any other discussion? Again, just for crystal clear clarification, this is a vote on the funding mechanism only. It's not whether
or not building. Correct. Correct. Just a funding mechanism and we have not approved the building. Okay. Would you do a roll call, Beth? Commissioner Benoy. Yes. Commissioner Heinen. Yes. Commissioner Pop. Nay.
Commissioner Johnson. Hi. Commissioner Kapinsky. Hi. Thank you. Motion carries on a 4-1 vote. And at that point, we are adjourned. Let's see here.