asking before we >> Good evening. Call to order. The Berkeley Heights Board of Education is holding a special meeting today, Monday, November 3rd, 2025 in the Governor Livingston High School cafeteria. The meeting was called to order by the board
president at 6:01 p.m. Meeting notice statement. Adequate notice of this special meeting of the Berkeley Heights Board of Education was given as required by the Open Public Meetings Act as follows. Notice of this special board of education meeting was sent to the Star Ledger in the Courier News on October
28th, 2025 and was provided to all schools PTO presidents and BHEA president and posted at the administration building. A copy was also provided to the public library and filed with the municipal clerk. Please stand for the flag salute.
Ice flag of America and to the rep for it stands under indivisible with liberty and for all. >> Thank you.
>> Madam Secretary, may I have a roll call? >> Yes. Miss Airi, >> Miss Bradford, >> here. >> Mr. Dylan, >> Dr. Porter, Mrs. Jolly >> present,
>> Mrs. Connor, Mrs. Stanley >> here, >> Mrs. Terrarero >> here. We have a quorum. >> Thank you. We have two presentations this evening. Uh, our first training and discussion on
harassment, intimidation, and bullying and law procedures and code of conduct is going to be presented by Mr. David Del Dissler, Berkeley Heights Board of Education attorney. Mr. Dysler will provide training session on law and procedures involving HIB and the board
members will discuss the code of conduct and the legal pillars that affirm harassment, intimidation, and bullying in a school district. Mr. Distler, thank you. >> Thank you. If this works, it does. >> Can everyone hear me?
>> Yes. >> I I don't like signing behind a podium. So, thank you again for inviting me to do your HIV training. I greatly appreciate it. Um, this training will be a little different than most your trainings because I require lots of class participation as you will see. Uh, so we're going to do get through a lot
of work here. Uh, so again, this is on HIV. So, we'll start off with some of the basics. We'll go through what is the three parts of the definition. We'll ask lots of different questions on what that looks like and what each of those elements. I'll say for it to be HIV, you have to meet all three elements. So if
you meet two but don't meet the third but two are really strongly in favor. It's not a HIB. So you need all three of that and then we'll go through what the process looks like both for you as a board but also obviously your community and your parents because I think that's important for them to understand as well. So we start out where am I
pointing this? Nope. Did I break it? Nope. Yep. There we go. Just a delay. So definition of HIV. We're going to go through, as I mentioned, the three components. What is HIB? So, part one, you need one of these. You need a gesture, written, verbal, physical act,
or electronic communication. The one thing I will say about this is you almost always have the first element. It's hard not to have a gesture, written, verbal, physical, or electronic communication. With that said, let's see an example. Is this him? >> You're out.
rules [Music] rules. [Music] >> O Doyle rules. >> Thanks a lot, O Doyle. Nice meeting you. >> Thanks a lot, fellas. You're saving my life.
Odoy rules. Okay. Does everyone know the movie? Okay, I'm seeing yes. Yeah. Uh, so did this meet the first part? So, we're going to do lots of thumbs up, thumbs down during this presentation. So, thumbs up if you think this met the definition, the first part of the
definition act, right? So, I'm seeing some thumbs up. Okay. Uh, so yes, this clearly mattered. But the question is, is this HI, right? So clearly there was an act um not a very nice one um made
Adam Sandler less than unhappy but not that unhappy. Um so we have to go on to the second part of the definition and the second and third is where we're going to spend most of our time. If it was just that amount of time I'd be down about three minutes but um this is really where we see a lot. So whether it
be a single act or series of incidents that is reasonably perceived as being motivated by actual or perceived characteristic. So two parts here be one act that's very extreme or it could be a series of small acts right the small paper cuts that lead to a bigger impact uh and then actual or perceived
characteristics. So there's a case where a student was not um gay but they called him gay it perceived to be that way. Uh even though the student ended up not being gay they still found that um because of the perceived characteristic you don't actually have to be the underlying. We'll see that with racial
terms as well. Well, you'll see students use a certain uh racial characteristic against a student. They turn out not to be that underlying race. It still does not matter. Uh and then where we seem to really hit this is so here you have your these are pulled from the New Jersey law against discrimination. So race,
religion, an national origin, gender, sexual orientation and the like. Where most of the cases kind of talk about is this other distinguishing characteristic. So I think we know race when we see it we know religion when we see it but it's this other distinguishing characteristic that kind of trick trip up boards and districts
and the like um so do we think right so we saw our characteristics here it is clearly not race religion I don't think that's what meant by color for obvious reasons national gender so it doesn't fit into
one through nine right uh but then it falls under other characteristic and do we think so yes or Well, right. So, very clearly this would be an other distinguishing characteristic. A red nose, right? You can think of how that relates to students in the building. Clearly, an other distinguishing
characteristic. So, let's play the game again. So, yes, other distinguishing characteristic, thumbs down, no. We're going to go through a bunch of examples here. These are based on real cases that I put in very small font so no one could see in the bottom right. Uh, so here we have a seventh grade student called
another student fat, fat A, and a horse. Do we think that's another distinguishing characteristic? Yes, we do. Thank you, Phil. I appreciate that. Yes. So, clearly this uh that would clearly be distinguishing characteristic making fun of someone a student's weight and a
physical appearance. This is an interesting case that came out give or take a little under 10 years ago. So, a group of sixth grade students were teasing another sixth grade student for being a vegetarian. Vegetarians are idiots. It's not good to eat. It's not good to not eat meat. People who eat
meat are smarter and have bigger brains. So this was this case was watched pretty closely at the time, right? Could you think of a vegetarian? That doesn't seem like is it is not. So what do we think? Yeah. So it again 10 years ago the HIPP law different than how we think it
today. I see you all want thumbs up but yes. Yep. Thanks Chuck Norris. So we appreciate the thumbs up. So very clearly uh now right we now notice that that falls on the other distinguishing characteristic. Why do we know that? Again at the time 10 years ago it had more of a narrow view. The case law
since this time has determined that really that other distinguishing character is meant to be interpreted broadly. So again, even someone like a vegetarian could fall under it. Okay, here we have a brand new case uh this past year. Uh a student used the word
garbage near another student, but that student is known to be sensitive to that term. What makes this case interesting? The student responded negatively when certain boys used the word garbage, but not when others said it. I know. Harder, newer case.
What do we think? >> I'm gonna say it depends on three, but >> mix. Yeah, that's the first one. I feel like I stumped you guys a little bit. The no, they said that basically the alleged victim can't get to choose what other distinguishing characteristic is. So, because some students said it, but
others did not. They said, "Well, that's not really what we think of other distinguishing characteristic." In addition, the idea that you were just saying it near the person but not at them. Again, clear code of conduct violation, but not meant as a hip. So, the idea that someone is sensitive to a
term is not an other distinguishing characteristic. So, two interesting points from that case. Okay, a little bit older of a case, probably a little easier for that reason. So here we have two high school students uh concerned and this I always call this the concerned friend case because this kind of blew everyone's
mind at the time. So two high school students were concerned that a friend might have an eating disorder. They called another student anorexic and then texted the student's boyfriend a statement that she was anorexic from the student's iPad. So here we have two concerned friends. They think their uh friend has an eating disorder. They then
text the boyfriend saying she's anorexic. What do we think? Other distinguishing characteristic Next here. So again, one of those cases that blew everyone's mind at the time. The commissioner went ahead and found another distinguishing characteristic
because they said they met the criteria of they went through the test, there was an act, the text of the boyfriend, there was another distinguishing characteristic, called her anorexic, and the harm to the student was substantial. She got became very upset that her friends called her that. Um, but again,
this was well-intentioned, which kind of threw everyone off their game a little bit because the commissioner took a very strict reading. Intent. This case also stands for intent doesn't matter, right? It doesn't matter if you intended to hurt the person here. Again, do I think this case may come out differently if it
was decided D? Possibly because we'll talk about um that impact and the like a little later, you know, mutual conflict, things like that a little bit later. Oh, I love this case. I call this the terrible singer case because it represents me uh in music class passing
the day. So here we have two students who just don't get along. They hate each other. They don't get along during music class. Well, one of the students was singing. So the other student said, "Cover his ears. I'm going to need earplugs. Get through this part of the concert." Do we have another distinguishing
characteristic? Yeah. So intent may not matter, but motive kind of does. So here again, this is the mutual conflict that they we're going to talk about a little later. So mutual conflict here. Both students hated each other. That's the key part. They both didn't get along and sometimes
unfortunately kids are mean to be mean. Uh and there they he was not saying those things to attack the kid for being a terrible singer. He was saying them because he didn't like the kid. So there wasn't other distinguished characteristic because he wasn't saying them because he's a bad singer. He was saying them because he just didn't like him. Interesting case. Um oh yeah, I
forgot to do the graphic. Sorry about that. Yep. Thanks, Kevin. Oh, okay. Let's talk about some teachers. A teacher commented that a student's skirt was too short in violation of the dress code policy. Another tough case
here. Is this a code of conduct violation? Teacher goes and comments, "A student shirt was too short in violence the dress code policy." What do we think? >> Code of conduct. Yeah. >> So, is this a distinguishing characteristic? Would this fall under gender is the question, right? Because
making a comment about a female student's appearance. That is the question is Sheldon. Thank you very much. So, no, I I think we all breathe breathe a little easier after this case. Again, one of those closely watched cases because we talked about the previous one. Sometimes
the commissioner will take a very strict reading and think, well, we're wondering this case because is this gender, right? Would this be a gender hit the characteristic? And so here point one as we know charges can be brought against a teacher. Sometimes teachers think that you can have a teacher on teacher HI.
That's incorrect. So it has to be the alleged victim has to be a student. So a student can't commit a hip against a teacher. Uh a teacher can't commit a hip against another teacher, but a teacher can commit a kid against another student and there's due process that follows that. Um so in this count in this
court's view it maps nothing more than a teacher discipline a student for violation of the school rules. So what we say here as long as a teacher is following your code of conduct there won't be a hip. If they go beyond your code of conduct we might be looking at a hip. So let's talk about teacher number
two. Yes. >> So a student cannot file a I'm sorry a teacher cannot file a hip against a student >> for correct intimidating them. >> Correct. That is another that's a code of conduct. But the the uh anti-billing
bill rights is protect teachers. >> Okay. Really only protecting the students. >> Correct. >> Um so let's talk about uh and I should say teacher teacher that's usually on affirmative action is what we handle it under. So teacher comment number two. So
after becoming incredibly frustrated with a student, a teacher tells a student she is a bad child and she would quote take her earrings off to and beat her. What do you think? >> It's a mixed tier. Oh, amazingly. I guess Adam Sandler's
pro um beating him. I don't I'm not going to go there. Um with that joke. So, was found not to be hib. So, clear clearly inappropriate. Uh charges filed against the teacher. Certainly charges a tenure charge brought against the teacher. Again, tough case 2025 case,
brand new. But they said just claiming again there's no what was the characteristic here? A student calling them a bad child, bad student. Again, no really distinguishing characteristic, right? A student acting inappropriate, calling them bad. And obviously, you know, then taking her earrings off to quote beat her. It's a terrible fact,
but not HI related, right? So that's the key here. It wasn't hip related. Again, doesn't mean that this teacher didn't lose their job. Doesn't mean tenure charges and charge against their weren't taken. It just wasn't a HIP. Okay. So now let us talk about the third
component of the definition of hib. So takes place on school's property or at a school sponsored event or off school grounds. So that's as we know again the definition is very broad. It does not have to take place in the school building. Takes place at extracurricular. It can take place on
social media. Uh or it can take place simply in someone's home. But there has to be that nexus to the school. Right? Right? So if it's not in our building, it certainly has to have an impact in the building. Um so where we again where we've seen the hip law evolve is this
component. So if you look at all the early hip cases, they were on that second component. They were is this another distinguishing characteristic and for the most part what the commissioner did is they took a broader and broader and broader view. We are now seeing some of the recent cases come in
really talking about this third component. Was there a substantial disruption? And those cases were actually seeing the commissioner roll back a little and say, you know, early on boards were so focused on prong two that they didn't really look at prong three. If there was any impact, they
were finding a hip. Now the cases what we're seeing is we're really focused on is there that quote substantial disruption. And so we're going to have lots of fun examples on that. Um so substantial disruption, here we go. threshold requirement in differentiation camp from your typical age appropriate
student conflict which may relatively minor in nature and in some cases quickly forgiven by the student involved. So that second that last sentence I think is the big one. So is it minor and quote is it quickly forgiven by the students? Right? We know there's constant conflict in our building. Uh specifically the middle
school where there's even more than constant conflict. Um and so there's lots of little incidents right and some of those will meet the second definition. The question is then do the students quickly forgive each other, move on, or is there that more lasting impact?
Uh, so again, lasting negative impact beyond that moment. So, here we go. Thumbs up, thumbs down. Lots of fun games with this. I can see everyone's really just enthused by this awesome game I came up with with thumbs up, thumbs down. Okay, we're going to call this one the yellow shirt. So,
during school spirit week, a sixth grader wore a yellow shirt. Another student made a comment alluding to the student being Asian. Other distinguishing characteristic, easy one, race. On the bus, other students called the student know-it-all and wished harm. The student later reported, "It ticked
me off at the time, but it did not affect her learning. What do we think?" So, here we go again. We have um it's that last component of it. It ticked me off, but it didn't affect learning. So again, the commissioner looked at this and said, you know, clearly the other
distinguishing characteristic, but it pissed her off, but it kind of moved on pretty quickly after that. And that's what you're looking for. Is it simply it bo, you know, quick bother and then you move on, or is that larger lasting impact, right? The student went home crying in tears, didn't want to come into school the next day, asked to
change class assignments, things like that. Go really working that thumbs up, thumbs down graphic. Okay, group chat. Great case, uh, about a year and a half old. So, here we have seven middle schoolers. They used a 20
person Snapchat thread to mock a classmate's appearance, weight, and sexual orientation. Pretty clear. The target though was not part of this 20 person thread. Uh, the target later found out about it and feared retaliation and later dropped out of school. What do you think? So, they
weren't part of the This is an interesting case, right? kids 20 person one middle schoolers but they weren't actually part of the thread. What do we think? Yeah. So, let's go here. Thank you, Kramer. That's So, here's what the
commissioner said. Quote, "A reasonable eighth grader, everyone can laugh because there is no such thing as a reasonable eighth grader. uh a reasonable eighth grade student would know that a comments would be physically and emotionally harming to the ver uh victim and that using that language within a group of 25 students will get back to them. Conversation or
shared information can be screenshot or hammer shot. Information among middle school students can travel and usually does. Uh any parents of an eighth grade student, this is a great case to remind them that uh anything you say even if the person is not around them will be immediately spread to that person and therefore it has the potential to be a
hip. So again, in this case, there was a substantial disruption. You know, a one-on-one chat that gets shared, maybe not so much, but a key component here was that someone should know when you're in a large group setting, if you say something negative, uh, it's likely to get back to that person and it's
reasonable to assume that. Okay. So, the second component of this is this mutual conflict, not HI. So, this is what we talk about a lot uh, in these is it conflict or is it HIV? And this is I when I talk to um HIV coordinators, this is kind of the one
they seem to struggle with the most. It's very very diff difficult. So I'm just going to kind of spend some time walking everyone through what that difference looks like. So a disagreement, argument or other action between people when they want different things but everyone is equal is considered mutual conflict. Right? Two kids are equal, they don't like each
other, they say mean things. That is considered conflict not hip. So again uh mutual gaming is disagreement. the actual perceived power between the person is relatively equal. So we have our traditional kind of bullying someone, right? This is where that traditional definition can come into
play at times. So we always try to tell the parents there's a difference between traditional bullying and HIV because you have that other perceived characteristic component. Um and that's why we have our code of conduct that always applies and hip is kind of that extra layer. Here we have that actual perceived power between is relatively equal that is considered
conflict. Um, so again, fact, sensitive, unlike HIV, during conflict, everyone's equally involved. Mutual, lots of buzzwords there. So, I'm going to kind of walk through this because this is just it sounds basic and easy, but in practice,
it's very complicated. So, I'm just going to spend a few slides on. So, bullying involves one or more people committing a mean or violent act against another person. There is no mutual participation or engagement. And again, this is not always easy. Why is that? Because there are times where someone
will say there is a quote unquote traditional bully will say something mean and that will lead to a reaction from the person and then they will say something back and that puts a lot of um a lot of factf finding on your anti-bullying specialist to figure out is this mutual or did the person just
respond because they are fearful that that's kind of what they do. So again simple in words harder in practice. So again, one side victimization intent is to harm the other person both physically and emotionally. Again, you can't just sometimes students just say mean things to say mean things.
So conflict again it looks a lot like hib. I'm going sorry this thing's flying on me. Um so again conflict can look like hip. Again it can involve that name calling or threats but typically they're kind of as a defense mechanism or reaction. So all because someone responded with something mean does not
mean it's not hit. Right? If it's that defense mechanism when other kids are picking on them to just say something back, it can still be hip. So again, what are you looking for? So here are kind of I'm going to walk through the test of what we like to tell, you know, here's what you're looking for. So again, involvement, mutual reciprocal,
both parties are equally participate. Hib is typically one-sided. So again, we hear this power imbalance terminology. That's traditional HI. Um the commissioner came out with some guidance a few years ago that said no, power imbalance can still kind of apply and be part of your policy. So again,
conflicting involves people with similar degree of real or perceived power whereas again power imbalance and a lot of this we talked about like reliance on your administration. This is one of those you kind of have to know the people in the building will know it when they see it, right? The principal knows the students involved in a way that we
certainly just can't. Uh and so they will kind of again they're the ones who factf finding wise can make these type of determinations. Then responsibility both parties responsible. Hib individual committing the act is typically responsible for the initial wrongdoing.
Then intent both part intend to resolve problem through their opposing actions or behavior or cohib is causing physical or emotional harm to the other. Um okay let's get to this case. So this is the case that kind of shook the area of this area that I just went through. You
know, again, for years, we kind of this power imbalance, mutual conflict was kind of pushed aside. No one nothing none of this mattered. And then this case came out. And I kind of maybe hinted where this case is going based on what I just said, but I just want to emphasize this case because it was such a groundbreaking change in how we viewed
it. So, here we have Tom, John, Sue, and Laura are communicating, madeup names, are communicating through a message app. The boys are calling each other. the B word ho wh dot dot and definitely the c another word I'm not going to say the
boys claim it's a prank and girl and the girls encourage the name calling to continue John a white boy then calls Susie an African girl the n-word Susie says that's racist and Susie being an African-American and the nword was just set at her by a white male is immediately offended and the
confrontation ends grades not dropped and she appeared nonphased after the incident is this hit. You take a moment to read it. Like I said, this is a this was kind of the case that changed everything. Not everything, but this kind of shook the educational community.
So, not HIB. Um, as I pretty much hinted through that, um, so it's this is why I shook this word. There was kind of a general rule. uh before this case came out that if a student used the n-word towards another
student in a derogatory manner that was an automatic hipfinding even after that case this case came out it took some time for districts to really appreciate and understand this case right how could it be that a student could use the n-word to another student and not be hip
um it took a lot time to kind of analyze this case now again this is where we always tell parents and this is why parent training is important on hip that does not mean that it is appropriate and won't be disciplined That's why we have our code of conduct. Our code of conduct is traditional what we think of bullying
and inappropriate behavior. So I tell sometimes a HI is not a code of conduct violation and a H and a code of conduct violation is not a HIP. I've had both situations. I've had situations where we had the best students in the school just make a very what they considered an
innocent joke on someone who they considered their close friend. And when the kid when the student was upset, uh the students immediately apologized. They did acted exactly how you would want them to act. But the three characteristics were met and a hib was found. The school immediately realized
like the kids were friends. They was purely joking. Uh was an inappropriate comment. Yes. Did they act? Did they immediately apologize when they realized their friend was upset? They did and found no code of conduct violation. Similar to this example on the averse side, right? Clearly clearly a code of conduct violation. There is no school
that would find that behavior appropriate and that that shouldn't be corrected immediately. But under the test, all the students were in this together. If you saw on um what I the reason we give that all those terrible words that I put stars in front of um it was clear that all the
students were using terrible words. They were all doing terrible saying terrible things to each other. They were all equal per se, right? They some thought they were joking around, but they were all saying them. Um and so the idea here that well I can say something terrible to you, but it's not a distinguishing
characteristic. But then if I say in response I say something terrible back but it is that it's one is hib and one is not. Before this case people would said yes. The answer to that question is yes. After this case the New Jersey appellet division made clear that no
we're not going to find a hip here. So I'm just now going to quickly spend a few minutes just walking through the HIV process. So we have now in since the law was amended in 2022. There's now a form 338. I believe if you look on your website, you have a you have an actual website that they go to, right? The
form's filled out for them. So, the state released a specific form um that you're required to fill out, but your website allows them to automatically generate it. So, they click a button, they fill out a survey, and it creates the form for them. Um so, there's two separate forms, one for parents, one for
school. The key for parents, guardians, it can be reported anonymously, but your school staff and you as a board member cannot report anonymously. So step one is report small the way the process gets kicked off uh report is received school principal
receives it again uh I should mention on the second paragraph you as a board member are statutoily required to report any HI sightings right you as a parent right if you're not on the board you see something two students doing something inappropriate you're not required to report it if you think it's a hip but as
a board member you are statutoily required to report anything that you view that you believe might and HIV. Same thing with all your school employees, they're required now by law to report it. And this also really applies to thirdparty vendors. So, anytime you contract with a third party vendor such as a contractor or the like.
Uh even sometimes that applies to like construction workers. We've had where we put it into their contract that if a if someone is in this building as a contractor and they see a hip, they are required to report it. So, uh we should say that because it's allegations, right? They're initial they're just allegations of the time.
does not mean that your principal cannot take steps immediately. The idea here is even if there allegations we want to put in measures to protect the students involved. Um so anything that can do to ensure the student is the safety, healthy and welfare of all parties involved. I should also mention even
though the HIV investigation is going on that does not mean that your administration can't issue disciplinary action or your code of conduct right because the hib and code of conduct can be slightly different and if the principal feels that they've found a code of conduct violation immediately the hip investigation may continue to see if there's the three prongs are met
but they can still do initial measures under hip and discipline under code of conduct. So I'm going to walk you through now the steps which I think this board has now down pat but I since this is public I really want to most parents don't and I think this is important because I get so many questions from
parents on the process. So step one right so HI is reported uh you open the investigation step one is the principal inform informs the parents of the parties involved um so it can be verbal or written again this is that initial report right so immediately a hib is
typically what takes place I'm not going to quote what happens in your building but typically principal picks up the phone and calls the parents um in that call typically again it could be written as well some districts have forms that they send out but it's general it's very very general because it's very early on.
So an alleged hip had occurred, an investigation on its way away and you receive notice thereafter. Why why is this so broad and why is there very little like specifically well what is the allegation? Because that's what parents constantly push. What is the allegation? And I get principles ask me
all the time can I just tell them right you know they're asking me they really want to know can we tell them the answer is you you can but it's not recommended. And why? Because as soon as a parent knows they have the ability to impede that investigation, um we get a lot of times, well, can a parent just say you you don't get to
speak to my child? The answer is no to that question, right? We have a statutory obligation to undergo a HIP investigation and we want to make sure that investigation is done without any uh involvement that could in fact taint the investigation. Again, the idea here is to get down to the truth. Um I I
didn't talk about this at the beginning. Technically speaking, the anti-bullying bill of rights, if you really read the statuto history, is an anti-suicide law, it's sad but true. Um, you know, unfortunately, since it's been passed, and it has been, it's been one of the most aggressive anti-bullying laws in
the country, the suicide rate in New Jersey still has not really gone down. But I always tell people, when you think about this law, think about that, what the intended purpose is, and then that kind of gets what you think the legislature is doing here. Whether you agree with it or don't agree with it,
that's kind of it helps you frame what they're doing. And so why again code of conduct violation typically traditionally for years student A is discipline. Principal calls home and says your child did X. When it's a HIB, they tend not to get that information because we're doing this investigation.
So step two, the investigation initiated within one school day. Uh the investigation completed as soon as possible but not later than 10 school days. Uh the result of the investigator reported to Schumer tenant within two school days. So the g key there is school days. So if it happens over the summer, uh it happens like you know
right at graduation things like that or you know in the graduation stands because they're graduated you have to the following school years but it is a very very very tight time frame. There are no exceptions per se although the commissioner has held that uh procedural
mistakes in a hip do not overturn an entire hip. So if for some reason your administration takes 12 days, uh the commissioner has said that look again the intended purpose that I just discussed the policy reasons behind this law are too great to just overturn hibs
on procedural grounds. So even if your administration makes a mistake is a little late that's not grounds to overturn it. Yeah, you'll get I should say that doesn't mean nothing takes place. The commissioner may still say something to the effect of you know in the hip finding the board did something wrong.
The board should update its policies to make sure that you're complying with the law's requirements, but it will not overturn a HIP. That is not grounds to do so. So, here's where things get very confusing. We have two board meetings as we know, right? And this is what parents don't seem to understand uh the whole process component to it. There's two
board meetings, but then also a 10-day requirement. So, I'll try to walk you through and I'll talk to you about what really takes place. So, board meeting number one, superintendent reports results to the board at the next scheduled meeting. But keep in mind at this point, the parents do not know the results, right? the parents have not been informed of anything. That's what
gets parents a little confused. How does the board know before me? Could I have appealed this beforehand? The answer is the board learns of it first before anyone else. Uh after the first board meeting, so board meeting one, parents are notified. It's only after the board
meeting the district notify the parents of the results of the investigation. There we go. So what is reported to the parents? So after board meeting number one within five school days um the district must give parents the following the nature of the investigation whether
district found evidence of hip the discipline was imposed or services provided and the right to request a hearing before the board. That's stat what is statutoily required that you must do right and the key is with the nature of the investigation. Um again
you have some leeway there with what the district includes but the other components are pretty strict. Um, so it's only after that board meeting number one, then parents are notified, then you have board meeting number two, and that's what comes before you. And this is where things get a little
tricky. So at board meeting number two, you have the right to affirm, reject, or modify the next schedule board meeting. Easy enough. Um, so what should be reported to the board? The simplest answer is signific uh enough information for you to make an informed decision.
And again, this is where no appeal is filed. Even where no appeal is filed, you as a board have an oversight to make sure that a HIB did or did not occur. Why is that? Again, the real reason behind HI. And if when parents ask me, what is HIB? If you know, I get this question all the time. What's the point
of HIV if we have code of conduct? The purpose of HIB is because the legislature was concerned that too many of these were being swept under the rug. Again, think of the purpose behind it. It was an anti-suicide law. And so, the legislature felt that too many were swept under the rug. And so they wanted you as a board of education to have some
oversight over this. And so you as a board get enough information to make an informed decision. So you get information on services being provided uh whether training was provided to these students or teachers if it was against the teacher. Um so again kind of the remedy the remedial actions. So
you'll a lot of boards get something like this. Sometimes you get the results, sometimes you get the report, but something to the effect of again. Uh, the bowling allegation to student number was found to be substant due to student number shouting the statements. Uh, make a run at the border. Don't leave a trail of tacos behind at student
number two who is a Mexican descent. Disruption such as student laughing, whispering, and passing a note with a Mexican flag drawn on it observed to have occurred afterwards. Right? So, you got enough information to understand were the components met. Here you have an act. You have a distinguishing characteristic characteristic race and
national origin. Uh and again I don't I don't um disruption students laughing here you may not have enough for the impact but again you look you have enough you should get enough information to make an informed decision on all three components. Okay so again you also get what
discipline is imposed to make sure it's not being swept under the rug uh or any other any other type of action being taken. Right? So you get information on two components right was it a hip? Here are the facts that explain why or wise and it wasn't and then what the district
did. Uh here is the most confusing part of HIP. So again we talked about the two meeting structure. Uh you have meeting one you get it reported to you parents are notified then meeting two. Um what makes this confusing is two components to this. Uh number one is they have 60
days. Now you as a board typically meet every 30 days or so. So normally it's best practice if within the two meetings the parent appeals it because then you don't have to affirm, reject or modify before the parent appeals. There are times though that obviously you must
reject or modify before the parent decides to choose to appeal. So we've had that situation here I know. So you have to revisit the appeal. It's a little awkward because you've already made a decision on it again. You do hear it new. What complicate complicates it even more is obviously both parents have
now received the result of that. uh and then if they appeal it and you overturn that decision, now the parent gets a different choice, uh different letter that said basically we know we affirmed it, but now we're overturning it. It's just a little awkward. Um but again, that's what the legislature has done and we're bound by that. The second
component of the law is within 10 days of the parent requesting um the board has to hold a hearing. I'll be frank. Um no one in the state complies with this. Um I I'm just not aware of any board that holds special meetings for just a bib hearing. It's very rare. Um, in my
personal opinion, I think it showed that the legislature, again, well-intentioned here, may not understand exactly how boards operate and that full boards would be hearing this. Um, but again, um, that is in the statute and required to share it, but again, it's typically not followed, just to be honest. So,
again, a HIP hearing, I know you're very familiar with this, so I'm not going to spend uh substantial time. It's an executive session. Um, again, the the principal or or the like, you typically have someone who's familiar with the facts, comes in, gives the information first, as you know, that's how I typically like to hear it. Um, the key
the key here is it's not a trial, right? There's no cross-examination. There's no witnesses being called. For the most part, it is a parent's opportunity to come in and explain their child's version of the story. They can provide documentation. They can explain what really took place here and why they
think you shouldn't have hit. Um your role as a board I always think is twofold. So number one again were the procedures filed right that's you as an oversight right did the administration follow the proper procedures outlining the anti-bullying bill of rights and then were the three components met based
on the information before you. Um so then again after that second hearing or after the appeal you're required to issue a written decision to firm reject and modify and that decision gets provided to the parents. So this is my I'm going to end here with
kind of a a recent case that came out. So potential issues with overturning. So one obviously that impact in your administration but really the the legal component of this is potential issue overturning. Again this is a recent case that came out that I just want to
highlight. So um if you don't have a good enough basis what happens when the commissioner gets to appeal. So this happens this is a recent case here. So real case and you can see why the board did what did it what it did and what the commissioner did what it did. So here we have after school a student followed a
ninth grade girl called her pretty repeatedly asked her hugs and asked to lift her backpack. Uh she reported fear and avoidance from home. Right. So they were walking home together. Student male student was behind a female student. Uh called her pretty, asked for hugs. Uh
attempted to lift her backpack. She reported fear and avoidance of home. Um the male student classified not entirely relevant for this but part of the kind of the analysis being done. The HIP investigation concluded that the incident did not substantially affect the operation of school or the rights of other students. They found the student
came uh back the next day. Um so I think understandably in this case the board overturned the administration's decisions here. Uh they found the students acted made the victim feel for harm. The parents appealed it to uh fearful of harm and the like. They
found that the the gender was the distinguishing characteristic. uh they had a full hearing and an AOJ found that the board's decision was not arbitrary, precious or unreasonable and find the student's action made the victim fearful of harm. The commissioner reversed and
here's the important component for myself to explain to this board and why that case is relevant and what you have to do if you're going to overturn decision. So the commissioner disagreed rejecting the ALJ's conclusion that the board's hipster was not arbitrary unreasonable. So here's the key. The commissioner found that the board's decision failed to provide an
explanation for why it disagreed or described the findings contained in the investigator report or how the students conduct met the statutory criteria. So what the commissioner has said is if you're going to overturn a HI where your administration found it or the inverse if your administration doesn't find a HI and you want to find HI you have to be
very crystal clear in that decision of why you not only are finding HI but you disagree with the investigator's findings. So, an important case, again, relatively new, but it's again those cases that kind of shake what I do for a living are these type of cases because
we have always thought, okay, a board can overturn, no big deal. It's the board's ultimate decision. And the commissioner has said, no, it's going to be arbitrary, Christian, unreasonable unless you are crystal clear explaining why you disagree with that investigation report. >> So, with that, does anyone have any questions? I know I went through a ton.
>> Just to kind of touch on what you just said. Yeah. So, are you saying that when we're voting on >> HIPS >> during, you know, our agenda, >> um, and somebody wants to disagree, they're supposed to say why they disagree at that time?
>> No. So, what I'm saying Oh, when you're voting, no. So, you issue a decision to the parents >> in writing. So, when when someone appeals >> within 5 days thereafter, you have to issue them a written decision. What the commissioner is saying is if you're going to overturn that decision and it goes against the investigation report,
you as a board are required to explain in that decision why you have reversed the administration's decision. >> Bill, I've been through some of these uh training sessions and I always walk away with a different take. All I'm gonna ask
you, right, we talked about specifically the board role. You said meeting one. In meeting one, right? >> Yep. >> Does the board have an action to take? >> No. Meeting one, you as a board are just informed that this exists. >> Okay. Not on the agenda.
>> Not on the agenda. It's just in executive session, the superintendent will say, "I want to give you a heads up. This case exists. Here are the general facts. You'll be voting on it next meeting. Therefore, you have time between the two meetings to learn more. Perfect. And I think that's it. Learn
more. So meeting two, I then have an action to take. >> You do. >> I need to vote. >> I often find that the process doesn't allow for the board to know a lot of the details. >> Yeah. >> Right. So there's been conflict over the
time as I've gone through various trainings as to what am I voting for in meeting two? Am I voting that it has been proven to me that the HIV specialist has gone through followed all the right criteria we followed all the
necessary steps and we're validating that the right protocol was followed or am I intended to have an opinion on the accuracy of the findings of that HIV specialist and the recommendation of the superintendent
>> typically the former right because again if before this is assuming no appeal correct prior to an appeal. >> So, prior to appeal, remember, you're going to get pretty limited information. You're not going to get any information about the student. You're going to get basically what is on the pen and paper in front of you. And so, your
responsibility at that time, in my opinion, is to review what is in front of you, right? The summary of what took place, the actions taken, and make a determination on what is in front of you. Did this meet the standard and the test? that to me that is different than when an appeal is filed and you get
substantially more information including obviously the individual who is going to come before you >> because I I think there's as I've sat through hearings and appeals I think there's a common misperception by the public that
that second meeting when we're voting we have almost like we're the jury and we've had all the facts and we're saying >> yeah this is a hip like this m this based on my experience this met or my understanding this met all three characteristics and therefore I'm
just going to affirm or reject the the recommendation right that's not the case right in many instances we as a board don't get those details unless an appeal occurs >> yeah that's why I'm trying to get back to that one slide that had that one paragraph you know that's traditionally
what you're looking at right it's not >> it's not a substantial amount of information it's enough because obviously look >> at this stage >> and and I say it only because it's only through the experience of the six years that I that you kind of get that >> not it doesn't jump off the page to you. Yeah.
>> Right. And I also think as >> when you're dealing with parents that are going through this that are obviously very emotional at the time there's a there's a misunderstanding about how much do you know right? So I think that's think that's important for the public to understand what what our
role is especially in meeting two what we've been shared uh and really our reliance on the experts and the administration on following through and all of their investigation and we're saying yeah it you know so far based on
everything we've seen it appears that all the right boxes have been checked the right procedure has been followed and they've done their job to evaluate it based off of these rules. I think there's a lot of perception issues with this law. To be honest with you, I one of my least favorite is if you look at the actual law, it's really a reporting notification, right? It's a report
notification to the board, which the board then reports facts that a commissioner of education and it's a report to the public twice a year. Your superintendent comes before you and shares the data. Y >> I wish it was not called HIV because I think the stigma associated with that, you know, how can my child be a bully? I
know my child, they are certainly not a bully. They made one bad choice and the stigma follows them. Um, I've had districts just change the name and say it's a policy violation of this because of the stigma associated with that. Because the reality is nobody when you a lot of these incidents if you just said they're a code of conduct violation,
parents move on. It's when they get that letter uh and says a violation of the harassment, intimation or child commitment, an act of HIV, harassment, intimation, and bullying. I can understand why they're upset and then they think there must be this due process because there's this law in place and what you as a board get is much more limited than obviously if
there's an appeal andor if there's a full trial, which there is not in this setting. Just I wanted to kind of add on what Bill was saying is it's hard for us to always know that the process was fully followed with the information that we have.
>> So we're basically depending on our district for the most part with the data that they're giving us that they have followed because I know we've had situations where it hasn't. So that's why I'm asking that question. Hey, I I I understand that, you know, again, that's
where it comes down to one, you know, your role as a board, right? And I get you have an expanded role here, but similar to like the code of conduct, right? >> You kind you have to have faith in your administration that they'll follow it. And you have to have faith that if they're not, your superintendent will be
ensuring that's followed. And then your feedback then is to the superintendent to say, "Look, I've heard X, Y, and Z. Uh, can you please look into that to make it true?" And then you have to have faith that your superintendent's going to do so >> and that is done during before after
meeting one before meeting two. That's when the board can talk to the superintendent about that procedure. >> Yes. I mean look if there are general concerns that if you hear through the grapevine that you know x y and z complaints you as a board under the school ethics have an obligation you share that with the superintendent. Say
look I heard this procedure wasn't followed for these reasons. Uh, and then it's on the superintendent to look in and examine that. If the board has any questions on an HIP, yes. Uh, yeah, that's correct. That that's your opportunity between meeting one and two to ask those questions.
>> Not at meeting two. >> Ideally, not at meeting two. My preference always is that um board gets their questions in beforehand just because it allows again I've been in the situation too, right? But I understand from the superintendent, your BA, it
allows them time to prepare and get the information you need because they're not the ones doing the investigation. You have to remember, right? They're getting similar information that you have. They're reviewing the report. They're doing so thoroughly, but there's always going to be questions that they need to go back and get more information. And obviously, if you can do that before the
meeting so they can do that, you'll have the answer at the meeting. >> And during the uh process, the investigation process, a letter goes to the victim and goes to the offender. If there are witnesses, do let do parents of witnesses get a letter informing them that their student is a witness to
something? >> They don't. So, no different than a code of conduct, right? Uh we would interview their child, but they don't get notice of that. >> Any other questions? Yes, Mrs. John. >> So, some of the things that um I struggle with, right? So, in the term
govern like oversight, right? In order to have oversight, you would think that you would want all the detail, not just some of the detail, because then how do I administer, you know, oversight without having full information? And so
that's why it's it's really, you know, a struggle, right? So if my role is oversight, then why am I only getting partial information or not everything? So you should have enough information to in in order to enact your role as a
board member, right? So if you think, look, I I look through this what you just presented to me and I think X, Y, and Z I'm concerned that X, Y, and Z wasn't followed. You have every right to go to the superintendent and say, I need more information on on X, Y, and Z. Now, keep in mind that there are student
privacy rights. So they don't want you to get everything because that kind of opens a can of worms. Uh when I say everything, I mean like witness statements, um the full investigation report for each one of these incidents. Again, appeals filed. That's different. But if for some reason you think, look,
I this I reviewed this case, this one's not sitting with me, right? And I have more questions. You certainly have every right to reach out to the superintendent and say, look, I can't do my obligation as a board member unless I get this information. >> Okay. And so, just to be clear, when we're voting, you know, after the first
meeting, it's based on procedures, right? >> Second meeting. Sorry, second meeting. Sorry. It's based on whether we agree that all the procedures have been followed rather than do we agree with the finding itself? >> No. >> No. >> So, it's procedures plus was the three
prongs of the test met. Okay. >> So, you're going to get the information. You're going to get not the full, you know, the full investigation report, but you're going to get information that says what happened here. Uh what discipline was imposed? And again, it should have the three components. Was there an act? Always an act. uh was
there an other distinguishing characteristic. What was that distinguishing characteristic? And um was there an impact in this child? You should have that information in the information provided to you. Again, that may not be the witness statements. That may not be the full investigation report, but that information should be provided to you. So again, you can do
your role as a board member, procedure followed, and uh where the three prongs met. And again, if you think after reading this, I'm this one's not sitting with me right for X, Y, or Z reasons, that's when you should reach out to the superintendent to get more information. >> So, um I know we over the last maybe two
years, we've had to try to get our staff to like really like make sure they all kind of have a similar look to them because I think anytime that they anything it looks a little different, it's like, oh wait, this looks off, right? And kind of kind of getting that consistency. And I think they've been doing a good job in trying to get that
consistency for us. Um because I think when you look at the report, it is really hard, right? And you're looking for those three things, right? Um but I think my question is is that most of the time, right? Like we know that they can
not only appeal to us, but the parents can appeal to the commissioner. Correct. >> Right. So for me, I always feel like our staff has to be prepared to go in front of the commissioner by the time they give us the report. Is that like that's the concept, right?
>> Um I mean I wouldn't put that much pressure on them, but I think look, you want to always dot your eye cross your tees. Not so much in my opinion because they should be fearful of going before the commissioner, but because these things matter, right? What they do matters in these sit investigations. And
so they want to get it right and they should make sure they take each one of these seriously because the impact on the families whichever way they decide is real. And so look, if that if that day comes and we have to go before the commissioner and it gets sent to a hearing before an administrative law
judge, we will help prepare your staff. But having a report that is accurate, that is well thought out, that has witness statements that support that finding are extremely helpful. And a lot of those case these cases will be decided on the background information. >> Yeah. My my next question is a lot of
families really struggle with kind of what you were saying before is that well my kid's a really good kid so why do we have to do this HIV like you know they didn't mean it or whatnot but I think that the the important thing is this a
this is a reporting thing right like if it fits the law like we're kind of obligated correct like there's no like wiggle room like for us to be like well we don't think they meant Ed or like we don't we think your kid's a good kid like right like that. >> Yeah,
>> it's a law thing, right? >> Like I said, I think that's why I always give out the example I gave of one of my the hardest case study I ever had where the kids were all close friends. They were all great students, no disciplinary issues, top of their class, AP classes across the board, and one of them um was
from a foreign country, and one of the students kind of mimicked them with the accent, right? All joking because kids will do that all the time. But that really impacted the child and it met the three prongs. Again, they immediately apologized. They felt all students felt awful for saying it.
>> Uh they immediately apologize. The prongs are met. And you know, and so when the prongs are met, the prongs are met. And again, no discipline issued against the students. Zero. They I don't even think they found a code of conduct violation, but a parent appealed it and they said, "My child is really bothered by this. Um they don't want to be
associated with these individuals. don't want to be around them. Um and the three prongs are met. So it it you have a statutory obligation to follow the three prongs. >> Yeah. >> Um and again the reason is is the commissioner wants to see those stats and more importantly the public gets to
see them twice a year and you want to make sure they're accurate. >> Right. And then I think right to go along with that like schools because I think sometimes people think well that school you know they let it go. They let the HIV go. This other school let it go. But that that would be wrong, right? Because it's a reporting thing from the
state, right? We're required to report these things. So I think right like sometimes parents have it in their head that we have more leeway, right? But we really don't. We have to kind of follow that law. And then my second part of that is like let's say the three prongs
were met >> and our staff did their due diligence and it was overturned. What do you think would happen if it went to the commissioner in appeal like >> again? So it that's why I bring up the last case, right? So you as a board
since that case has come out have now an obligation to be very specific on why you disagree with the administration. So you have every right to overturn decision and there have been decisions that I viewed that I agree with the board that look I think X Y and Z wasn't met here under the law. Um, again I I
don't this is no staff member came into their current teaching role so they can investigate bullying. I think we have to remember that it's really hard and when you talk to your staff on this it's very draining. Um, and so every once in a while one gets overturned, but I think
your obligation now is to be clear on why why was it, you know, we the parent came in and they actually explained that X means Y and that's not really a distinguishing characteristic or like the kids made up the next day and we don't think there's actually an impact here. The other parent came in and said,
"Of course, yeah, they're best friends now." Something to that extent where maybe your staff didn't have the information and that you have now factual support to overturn it. But you have to be clear because if you are not crystal clear explaining why you disagree, the commissioner has been clear that that's arbitrary and unreasonable.
>> Can I can I just follow up on that? So we've had maybe two cases I think since I've been on the board where we kind of sent it back to the administration like to do more investigation like is this correct? Like what was there a mis right like thing? >> So how how do we go about that and is
that better than just immediately overturning it? >> So great question. this I'm going to give you the legal and the practical answer. >> Okay. >> Legally because again this is a pretty rigid law. There is no real legal mechanism to do what you just said. Now you and I've already we've had you know
I not to really reveal any confidence in executive session but I've obviously recommended that course of action because in my view if you feel you don't have enough information as a board you're not sure one way or the other and you feel look how how can we overturn a HI because we don't have enough
information or how do we affirm a hip if we don't have enough information again the commissioner has been crystal clear on one thing it is that we will not overturn HIPS on just purely procedural grounds We may yell at the board for not following the proper procedures, but we'll not overturn a HIP. And just my
personal view is that I rather a board be yelled at for procedural grounds than get a hip wrong. And so again, is there in the statute you can read it, there's no real mechanism to do what you've said and I've recommended. Um, but I rather a board I rather personally go before the
commissioner and say, "Yeah, we know that procedurally what we did may not be right, but we got the HIP right." rather than go before the commissioner and say, "Yeah, we overturned it, but we weren't entirely sure why because we didn't have enough facts here." >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you. I think it was I learned a lot tonight.
>> I I just wanted to say I think for the public, the term hib is really confusing because >> you think your child's getting bullied at school, but it not might not fall under those characteristics. And the
expectation is that's a HIP that should be founded. And so I don't know if it's something that we as a board should discuss maybe changing the actual term itself because it's very misleading. It really is.
>> You can't change the terminology per se. Again, the districts that have struggled with it sometimes will say like a policy violation of this policy. Um and I again that's an individual determination of how you want to do it. But I will agree that education on this is so important. >> Yeah.
>> Because again, it is really scary as a parent when they get these. I've spoken to many parents before Hibil and you can you they think they know until I go and kind of explain it all to them and you could see like a light bulb go on because they felt like they were in the dark because again it's I can understand, right? You get this letter
first. You get a call from the principal but I says that I really can't tell you much and that's a little different. And then they say, "But don't worry, we're going to be investigating this." Okay. Well, my child's 12. He's not used to being investigated and being called in with witnesses. And then they get a letter that says either a finding or no
finding related to harassment, intimidation, and bullying. So, I think the more parents know the better. Um because again, it's we've had the code of conduct for years. And we did we don't discipline under HIP. You can't dis there is nothing in the statute that allows you to discipline anyone under
hip whether find if there's sometimes you find no HIB and students suspended for 10 days. Sometimes you find HIB and there's zero disciplinary action. We only discipline under the code of conduct and so again so the more parents know the better because there is a lot of confusion around this. >> Yeah. I don't I guess I question how we
educate them better because I mean I've heard parents say before to me my child was bully bullied but there was no HIV and I don't understand that and so I I think from a community perspective there there needs to be a better understanding
and I don't know how we do that. I mean I just think it's it's very difficult because the expectations are oh well it's bullying it has to be him. It's tough and I'll be honest, I've had districts do lots of parent training and it's getting parents to show up when their kid child hasn't committed a hip
is the tough the toughest component. I'm sure you're administration will relay that that's kind of the the getting the buyin part, but it is important because a lot of people don't fully understand this law. >> Mr. Distler, what happens to that letter when it goes to the student file? >> Um, it stays by statute. It stays in the
file. It doesn't again like I think there's common misconception if my child got an HIV in elementary school that their when they apply to colleges 10 years later or however many years later that the college will see that typically again it's just a letter that stays in their student file. Uh obviously if
discipline is opposed in high school the colleges will see the disciplinary record right whatever that log whatever information related to student discipline is sent to colleges will see that I don't think colleges typically see the letter is my understanding but that your administration clarified but there is a letter by law that's that
2022 amendment that now districts are required to place the letter or place something in the file and our recommendation typically has been that letter that you send to them gets placed in the student file so there is some record of it. So, um, some of the other concerns that
we hear a lot and things that we bother us as well with this law is the fact that it applies to kids in first grade and second grade. And >> is there um maybe somewhere in the legal circles any thought to potentially
kind of uh, you know, putting an age limit on this? Because when you're like, how is someone harassed? like when you're one, you know, when you're in first grade, how does that, you know, how do the kids even know what they're saying or what they're doing? And yet,
you know, we, you know, you meet the three prongs, but there's so little. Is there anything in the legal circles that is potentially floating around to address an age? >> Not that I'm aware of. I can say from a practical experience, my experience, and
this is not law, is that they typically are more a little more lenient in the elementary school levels, just generally statewide. That doesn't mean that's here or anywhere else. They just tend to be more lenient because for the reasons that you just expressed. Legally speaking though, it does apply. Districts are trying to get more
creative when it comes to my child in third grade got a HIP. Does that really apply to them when they're in high school? And we can talk at a different time of what districts are doing in that regard. But as an actual age cap, like this shouldn't apply to kindergarters, I'm not aware of any proposed
legislation right now on that. >> Sorry. And when you say they, who do you mean that you say they are trying to be they're more lenient? >> My again my exper my experience is that sometime when applied the principles and
the like tend to be a little more lenient with elementary schools. They tend to give them a little more leeway. But there is nothing in the law theoretically. Well, not theoretically. There's nothing in the law that it does apply differently. I can only tell you in practice I have seen that. That doesn't mean that's here. doesn't mean
it's everywhere or um but my that's what I have seen generally speaking because I think the concerns you raise are a lot of people share that concern as applies to the lower school students. Now I will say on the flip side of that when people raise that argument they
will people will argue on the other side something the effect of no no no look if you look at the statistics there's a lot of emotional impact on students even that young so we need to apply the law but again if you're asking for practice that's what I've seen >> thank you Mr. Disloy, we appreciate you coming here tonight and giving us and
our public um some information. Very valuable information. >> Thank you very much. I appreciate inviting me. >> Um we're moving on now. >> Well, can I just interrupt you? So, uh unfortunately, we are missing three board members tonight, which means that I have to leave early. I have um
13 middle school girls that I coach for PAL and they have their last game tonight. We are going to run out of a quorum if when I leave. The only concern is public um comment is at the end and if I'm not here, you have no public
comment. >> So, you're asking to move the public comment to now >> or Yeah. real quick. >> Okay. Uh is there any objection from board members? >> I'm sorry. >> Do we want a motion to move it is what she asked?
>> So, I'll make a motion to move public comment to now prior to the training. Okay. Do we second? Okay. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> Okay. At this time, we're going to move to comments from the public. During this portion of the meeting, district
residents and staff are invited to address the board of education on any topic. The board requests that the individual state their name, town or residence or school of attendance for the record. The specific action items they are commenting on and ask uh commenting on and ask that all remarks be directed to the board president or
designate, not to individual members or staff. The board asks that members of the public be courteous and mindful of the rights of other individuals when speaking. Specifically, comments regarding personnel matters or regarding are discouraged and cannot be responded
to by the board. Students and employees have specific legal rights afforded by the laws of New Jersey. The board bears no responsibility, nor will it be liable for any comments made by the members of the public. If a matter concerning a district staff member is of
interest or concern to a resident, the matter should be referred to the responsible building principal, superintendent of schools, or the board of education either by telephone letter or email. Although the board may not respond to items raised during the public forum, all public comments will be considered. Please note that if any
members of the public become disruptive during the meeting, the board president may terminate the participant statements. Continued disruptions may result in removal from the meeting or adjournment to the meeting. Each speaker statement will be limited to three minutes in duration. We will take comments in person first and then
comments online. Is there anybody in person who would like to make a comment? I see no uh individuals in uh in person. Is there anyone online? No, I see no individuals online. So, may
I have a motion to adjourn our public comments? >> Second. >> Mrs. Stanley and Mr. Dylan. All in favor? >> I >> I voice vote. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Dysler. Okay. Review of board
self-evaluation summer report and development of 2025 board goals presented by Mrs. uh Mrs. Jean Clearary the NJSBA field representative for Berkeley Heights board of education. Thank you Mrs. Clearary. >> Hi it's good to be with everyone again.
Um I have um reviewed your board self-evaluation and provided a summary document. I am going to before that just start and ask um Mrs. Bradford to pass out the Berkeley Heights Public Schools um mission statement. And the reason I'm
asking her to start there is before we want to set the tone for what we're going to talk about tonight. Um all of the work of the board should really begin with an understanding of what your mission statement is. Your mission statement reflects the aspirations that
your community has for students who pass through the Berkeley Heights schools. Okay. So, for the um benefit of the public, the Berkeley Heights Public Schools mission statement is that the mission of Berkeley Heights School District, a community partnership that
values the direct relationship between exceptional education and individual success, is to challenge students to explore, to excel, and to embrace a lifetime of learning by developing a staff devoted to excellence, applying
resources effectively, fostering ing a culture of mutual respect and integrity and offering engaging academic curricula and diverse co-curricular programs. So the reason that's important is it's really the foundation of the work that
the board needs to do, right? So we talk a lot about the board being a policymaking body, planners, appraisers. Um, and we want to filter that through helping your students achieve the aspirations, the goals that are in the
mission statement. So the next thing I'm going to ask to be just passed around is um the code of ethics. And I know I've been in in the past to present code of ethics. So this is not a surprise to you, but it's one sheet to just remind us again of the requirements of your
governance and the code of ethics that you need to be in compliance with. Okay. And on the sheet we see that it talks about the function of um upholding and enforcing all laws, rules and regulations of the state, right? um
making decisions in terms of the educational welfare for all students, confining your action to policym, planning, and appraisal and helping to frame those policies and plans only after you've consulted with those who
will be affected by them. D goes on to talk about the responsibility not to administer the schools, but to see that they are well-run. And it's interesting listening to the HIB presentation, which was was very good. I myself as an administrator used to have a part to play in that putting those reports
together for the board. Um it really isn't so different with HIP, right? It's remembering that you're not administering the schools, but you're looking to see that there are proper procedures in place and policies that guide the district, right? That's how
you communicate with the administration for um helping you to achieve those aspirational goals of your mission statement. So um it goes on to talk about you know not surrendering your independent judgment to holding matters
confidential until they are prepared for being shared with the public. Um and that happens through what goes on your agenda so that um we have meetings that are wellrun that can be informative business meetings for the benefit of the community and keep the community engaged
in the good work that's happening in the schools. um voting on the best qualified personnel after recommendation of your superintendent and referring all complaints um through the chain of command. Right? So now we've taken a
look at the mission statement and a reminder of the code of ethics that really outlines the responsibilities of your governance. Okay. Now we get to why we we came here for the board self-evaluation. First, I just want to say that the board self-evaluation so
that the um public is aware. Um yes, you can go ahead. Thank you so much. This is Bradford's doing all the running around for me tonight. Thank you. Um for the benefit of the public to understand that the board is required under statute to
do an evaluation of the superintendent to ensure that the district is wellrun, right? You aren't required under statute to do a board self-evaluation. So the community should really applaud the fact that you have participated in
this process because this process of wood self-evaluation is you saying clearly that you want to examine those things that are going well in your governance and identify the areas um that you see challenges and
opportunities in to improve your governance in service of students. Right? So doing the eval the board self-evaluation is a great first step and should be recognized as such. So when we look at this what what's in front of you is um a summary report that
I created in the hopes of actually helping the discussion we're going to have tonight about goal setting and the um the board has gone through and completed the self-evaluation which speaks to these areas. It asks you about
how you think you're doing with vision, mission, and goals, policy, accountability for student achievement, governance, team relationships and accountability, resource management and oversight, and community leadership. So, it was completed by seven of eight board
members and the superintendent. Um, and on a 40 scale, the average board evaluation score of all of those areas averaged out is 2.1 on a 40 scale. Okay. So, one of the things I want to caution
is when we look at low ratings, right? Of course, we have a tendency to focus on those numbers, but we really want to look at what those numbers reflect and what we can do to um make sure that we're focusing our attention on the things where our attention needs to be
focused to show the best outcomes. Right? So, the first one, board mission, uh vision, mission, and goals. Um the board rated itself um at 1.6 on a four-point scale. on the um evaluation. It talks
about um this is what's posed on the evaluation that you rated yourself against. The board being committed to a shared vision of our district's future, its mission and goals to move the district forward so that you're focused on student achievement, guide the district strategies, and reflect
community values. Okay. So I'm just noting here that um from what I was seeing and the raw data of the compilation has been has it been distributed yet or no? >> No. Okay. Um it will be distributed with you so that you can have the raw data um
and see you know if you're in agreement with these but it was pretty clear to me when I looked at it that there is agreement that there is currently a lack of connection between the district's vision and mission to the creation of goals to remain focused on student achievement. So we have um to remind
ourselves right that the district has its district goals annually set that the board approves that the superintendent will be held accountable to um completing that's how you actually govern to say whether the district is
wellrun or not. So from directly from the evaluation um it was noted by you as a team this is your work saying that um B considers the vision mission and goals as the guiding force for district operations and the
board's planning oversight and policy decisions is an area that is is you're recognizing as an area need of improvement and also um from from that evaluation ensures the vision mission and goals are clearly articulated ated
to all direct uh district stakeholders and progress updates are communicated. So we have a a process part here, right, that you're pointing out could be improved. So the challenge and opportunity that I see is um really that
you may want to consider and I will say when I needed the mission statement um it's hard to find. It's not on your website. It's not on your documentation that uh the agenda I don't believe. Right. So it might be a good first step to just make sure that the mission and
vision statements are there to really be something that you share not only as a board but with um the administrators and teachers in the district and your community at large. Right? So you're keeping that focus on where it really is and then focus your attention as a
governing body on how you're going to support that. Right? Um you should um consider uh you know how the decisions, the planning, the goal setting that you're doing um how you
evaluate those things before you as a body really bring you closer to meeting those aspirational goals. And you should be identifying annually um board goals should be identified annually that are aligned with this mission and vision
statement. And good news is that's where seeking to start that to do that tonight. Right. So, any questions on that first part or comment and we'll go through it and then we're going to look at the next phase of how we use this information to move into
board goals. Y >> oh, okay. So, you know, the first time I think that we did board goals was like last year the and that was like a year process leading to us actually getting
the board goals and then they were in place for a full year last year and coming into this year. So, I feel like um you know we're about to start this process from scratch again. yet we do have board goals and unless our mission
statement also changed that we really didn't execute on you know that came out of that. So can do we have to go through another lengthy process? Well, I think that what we're looking to do is use the board's um input that you gave your your
own self-evaluation to just look at where you think. But to your point, no, you don't have to necessarily say, oh, we have to create new goals based on this. It might be a continuation of, well, we made it so far on that goal, but we didn't really complete that. We want to carry it forward. That would be
totally acceptable. >> Yeah. And I'm sorry, >> I don't want to speak over the first I don't want to skip over the first metric. Um, seven of eight, uh, getting an 87% completion rate by board members.
How does that weigh against the other districts that you do this with? >> Um, I I hate making gross generalizations, right? But I will say this that um, for this process, you know, we would always want eight of
eight, right? But having done it is also a huge step in the right direction. We have to start somewhere. So things aren't always perfect. Um but I would encourage board members to realize that this is really your opportunity to weigh
in on how you want to go forward as a team. Right? So to be clear, I'm not coming in and telling you based on what I'm reading, these are your goals, right? I'm saying that the um this is really something that lends itself to an examination by you as a team, but also
to um help you set proper goals and to also inform your community that you're holding yourself accountable because once you set those goals, I'm not sure if in the past you actually had action plans tied to those goals. I'm not sure if you had um updated reporting perhaps
quarterly um on progress being made toward th towards those goals. So these are things that this process that we're we're embarking on now is meant to do. >> Okay. >> Okay. Okay. So I'm going to go to the next one
which is policy came in at 2.3 on a 40 scale. Um, from the evaluation itself, our board governs through policies that reflect local values value, I'm sorry, excuse me, values, principles, and guides the direction and priorities of the district. Notes that I I'm just
giving you are that the board indicates proficiency in the subcategory of reviews, updates, and adopts policies, procedures, and bylaws annually or as required. comments reflect the commitment to maintaining the policy manual. And that's very good to hear,
right? Because you're a policymaking body and how you communicate um what you expect to see um from administration or how the district will be run. That's how you communicate that is through your board policies. The challenge and
opportunity that's there is that also so two things can be true, right? It can be that people are focused on the importance of having policies but the devil is often in the details right so based upon the comments the charge of the policy committee should be restated
to include the purpose of policies to guide the district I'm not sure from the comments in that area that everyone was really clear on what the intent is right um so as an educational thing so everyone's on the same page starting from the same um also going into the
process process by which the policy committee operates, including how items appear on the policy committee agenda for review. Right? Just there may be some of you that are clear on that and some of you that aren't. So, it's always really important to um firm up that
communication and also how recommendations are made to the full board. This really goes for any committee structure, but we're specifically looking at policy here, right? So, we don't vote out of committee, but we make recommendations. part of building that um that sense of
confidence among the board members that even if you weren't in the room for that discussion that you're getting enough information not dissimilar to the previous presentation on HIB that you feel confident that you can support recommendations right or ask informed questions
still with me so far okay um three accountability for student achievement 2.3 the from the evaluation The statement is our board supports a regular rigorous and coherent system of curriculum instruction and assessment
and prioritizes continuous growth for each students academic success and well-being. So the note was that the board indicates that there's a shared commitment to student achievement and positive student outcomes. And from the work that I've done with you as a as a
team, I see that to be true that, you know, that's really what brings you to the table, that you really want um to be playing your part in ensuring that there's opportunities for growth for students and good outcomes for students. The opportunity here is remaining
focused on serving student achievement through the use of objective data in decision making and planning to remain effective and efficient in serving students. So when we look at accountability for student achievement on a very high level, a lack of good process and
structure is inefficient and takes away from student outcomes and what you'll be able to effectively do to support students. Right? So we want really good processes in place that help you govern and stay at that balcony level view to ensure that the administration can run
efficiently and everyone shares in the part they play in being focused on student achievement. The board identifies the following as areas of growth. >> We have a question. >> Sorry. Yes, ma. So this is this is the one in the survey that I really um
struggled with because um as a board member I don't really feel like I have you know we have our curriculum committee we listen to the administration you know we have the conversation but for the most part we are you know taking what the
administration is recommending right and we are supporting that through voting yes on our agenda but you know but we don't interview the teachers And so when when we say that we or like do so many things that are in the weeds that you know are left to the administration to
do um and so then to say that we're accountable, you know, for something that we have I feel like other than saying yes at a board meeting to support what the administration puts on the agenda, you know, it it feels a little disconnected for me. Sure. Right. Um,
>> and I think the part of that is understanding, you know, really the board's role of governance is to see that the district is wellrun. How do you do that? By ensuring that you have policies that speak to how the administration will manage it, right? By
ensuring that there's process of what data you're given, right, at certain times of the year. We don't generally start, you know, in September with student reporting because they haven't there's nothing to report at that point. But having a clear understanding and working with superintendent to know you
know when should we expect certain data to be coming in and using that right >> right but I guess like we don't have any power to action the data right and so for example we had NJSLA results recently and there were some areas that you know showed a decline right and and
now I'm like so our processes are in place they are you know allowing the administration to do what they need to do I feel like we you know never really prevent them from doing anything that they choose to. And yet our numbers are down. So now, you know, now we're
accountable for that. You know, it doesn't it doesn't doesn't sit right. Okay. >> I agree. >> Okay. So, let's let's go a little bit into this further so that we can come back and have these discussions on on what may bring some um clarity to that.
Okay. So the board just to back up a moment though is the governing body that is here not to run the schools right I think we agree on that but to see they're wellrun so I think the what this is seeking to do through the evaluation is really to help guide you on where
you're finding yourself so finding yourself confused there is fine right what we want to do is now address how we bring some clarity to that so that the board is really functioning and feeling that confidence in governing without getting intoration, >> right? So, I don't think I'm confused. I
just don't think that the way this reads is necessarily appropriate, right? I know what my role is, right? I'm not an educator, so I'm going to listen to the administration and, you know, I'll ask questions and I'll debate, right? But I
will support what they want to do. Um, but again, this but because I'm not an educator, right? and you know what am I you know being held accountable for student achievement when we do support
the administration again doesn't >> okay >> like per whatever guidelines that the NJSBA is setting forth right >> I think well I think >> I'm sorry go ahead >> to address that this is a tool that you engaged in that is based on what the
roles and responsibilities of word governance are right so if we look further I'm I'm not going to forget you. Okay. Um the board identifies the following areas for growth and this is under accountability for student achievement and it talked about reviews our student data with attention given to
subgroup achievement to ensure success of all students. That's specific of what you would do towards student achievement. Provides for essential learning tools including rigorous curriculum and technology. ensures fair and equitable additional opportunities
are available to all students and recognizes high levels of staff and student achievement. So these came in by the board your own evaluation saying that these are areas that you would like
to improve upon and these areas fall under accountability for student achievement. So if you are taking steps to improve those things that are here, then you'll be making those steps towards ensuring your accountability as a board. So
that's really why we're looking at this. Um we can look at I'm sorry you >> Yeah, I I just want to say that um it's been something that recently I've struggled with myself. Okay. >> Um and this is no way in shape or form
specific to anyone per se. I just think that um it's very difficult for us to be held accountable when there's really nothing we can do. We're really at the mercy of of what the district decides
and all we do are basically advocate for something. But like if we see there's a direction that's happening in a particular department, a teaching style or whatever um and the public could be coming to us and complaining about it.
There's really nothing we can do other than bring it to the attention of the district. >> Right. We right we know through the code of ethics that you can't solve that problem. Right? That's a that belong. >> So how are we accountable? So clearly what I pointed out was these were from the evaluation that the board itself has
identified as areas of growth. So looking at you know CDE and G which I just went through listed here is if you strengthen that you will be growing in that direction of governance to know that you're playing your part in it.
That is not the same as you know directing changes in administration or you know solving the questions for people who approach you but to just be governing as a board right we also need to understand that the board retains the
authority non-individual members of the board right so what we're just looking at is your self-evaluation what information comes from it and then we're going to have a discussion on how that can help you kind of set what goals,
what areas do we want to, you know, focus our attention on and pick three goals maybe for the upcoming year and they might be carryovers from last year, right? Um, of what you value as the areas for your focus and your governance, right? Because when you're
when there's good strong governance, then you'll be in fact fulfilling your accountability for your the part you play in student achievement. Okay? So if we look at the next area, governance, team relationship and
accountability, it came in at 1.8 on a 40 scale. And from the evaluation, it said, "Our board understands that healthy, productive relationships among members of the board and between the superintendent and the board are essential to providing effective
leadership and prioritizing student success." So I noted that the board notes the completion of the superintendent EV valuation on time is a positive that I believe was a challenge in years past. The board um comments note a lack of respect for the committee
structure. Right. So this is your words um lack of preparedness and a lack of respect for the board majority. And additionally seven board responses evaluated the following and this was a subcategory in that section as unsatisfactory
um which said works together as a team in an atmosphere of trust and respect. So that's pretty telling when seven members of the board are saying that you don't feel that that's happening, right? So it's hard to govern well in an
environment where people aren't feeling comfortable and trusting in in the team. So a challenge opportunity is to identify areas of growth. Um understands complement the role complimentary roles as board members and the superintendent
confining board action to policym planning and appraisal. Having clear communication process with the superintendent and one another adopting explicit goals for the board distinct from the district goals and holds itself accountable for their accomplishment.
annually evaluates its governance performance and ability to work as a team with focus on student achievement and takes collective responsibility for board performance and comes meetings prepared to discuss and add value to the decision-making process. So it's crucial
right to build up the board team. Um part of part of you know addressing anything is being able to see the issue. So you have spoken clearly and honestly about the challenges you're feeling as individuals on this team and some
attention should probably be given to these areas of what do we do next to to improve that right because it's hard to be effective if the team itself can't effectively work together. resource management and oversight came in at 2.5.
The board from the evaluation, the statement is, "Our board is responsible, ethical, and accountable stewards of the district's monetary and non-monetary resources." Um, the board recognizes strengths in this area to include vigilance in fiscal resource management
and oversight, including through the budget process. Challenge opportunity areas were noted. Um the board, you know, when looking at the board comments, um it look it reflects a need for clarity in the board's oversight role in finance to
include the use of your policies to outline the steps of the budget process, approving monthly secretary and treasurer's reports and receiving audit reports and updates on corrective action plans. Right? So clearly the board is
not the business administrator right or administration but by having speaking through the policy of what the budget process looks like right ensuring that those steps are being followed ensuring that all board members are aware of the importance of understanding the monthly
reports and approving those reports making sure things balance on a regular basis um and you know having um independent auditor come come in and report to you. Um if there's any corrective action plan to make sure that that plan is being worked through the
administration so that progress is being made and adjustments are being made. Right? That is governance to make sure that the that the district is moving forward positively. In community leadership, it came in at 2.3. The board recog and it says um the
board recognizes public education's impact on the community and understands how strong connections mean everyone is invested in successful schools. So your comments reflect a need to improve ways to positively engage with the community and build and maintain that trust around
issues focused on student achievement. Right? When we only interact with the community through board meetings and maybe you're not right, you may be doing other things. um new administration now in place is a great opportunity to develop um other ways of engaging with
the public and keeping them um you know understanding and understanding what all the good work that's happening in the district and where the goals are and the accomplishments being made right now. I can recognize that the strategic plan is in place and that in it of itself is
very important way to engage with your community. Um and part of that process is you know regular updates as things move forward over the next five years so that community is kept aware of the progress made under the strategic plan. So
um when we look uh further what do you consider the board's greatest strengths that we can build from? These were your comments. Um board members are interested in student achievement. The board wants policies to support students and staff growth and well-being. There is diversity of opinion on the board
which was seen as a strength. Board members are interested in building positive relationships with the new administration and board members want to learn more about the budget development process to support student achievement. So importantly, you know, you're reflecting on the fact that you
understand that um plans are goals, district goals are in place, plans are set, but that the budget has to reflect, right, and tie that in to ensure that things will move forward positively. Um governance areas that you identified as
needing focus um or further work to be an effective board team are building and maintaining trust to support healthy interactions among the governance team and with the community. Developing more efficient and effective communication procedures to keep the board members
informed and impro and improve overall effectiveness which best serves students. Deepen understanding of your bylaws and rules of order to make meetings more efficient in service to students and maintain community engagement. Identify
efficiencies in the committee structure and board training to support governance roles and support informed decision making. Right. So you did a very um you know reflective look at where you feel you are and where you would hope to be.
And now as we as we look at that I will say on the back page the last sheet has I just really took the image of this from your compilation. Again all the raw data will be will be given to you. This is a summary. I think your raw data came
in at about 18. >> It came in and it has to go to our board attorney for >> Yes. >> So that's yes but it came comes in at about 18 to and that's a that's a a natural step. Um we need to make sure that there's nothing in your board
self-evaluation that are comments that could be considered evaluative of staff. Um if things are evaluative of staff, they need to be redacted because the board self-evaluation is not a protected document. So to um ensure that there's
no liability to you as a governing team, we just recommend that step. But you'll have access to that raw data. But we com, you know, what I've attempted to do here is really just take somewhere between 18 and 20 pages and bring it down to this so we can have somewhere to
start the conversation tonight. So this is a snapshot of the the um grid and this one part speaks about your individual um contributions to the board team. And the reason that I put it here is it's
really helpful to keep this in front of you right throughout the year to just you know make sure that you're refocusing your attention on these are the responsibilities that you really have as individuals as part of this team. Okay. Not surprisingly, I see in
all of my boards virtually that if you look at the average um score for individuals, it comes in higher than the team score, right? And I will say that the math isn't mathing there um because if everyone individually was really at a
higher level, then the board would be seen as a high would be evaluated at a higher level. Right? So, it's a very human thing to think that we are doing things well and it's someone else that's not. What I'm asking you to do is just be reflective of the feedback that you
you gave yourselves as a team to see how to use this how do we use this to go forward right so I I know that you were when I was saying about having district goals and action plans that you were like no we don't really we didn't really have them last time is that correct
>> uh no it wasn't with respect to district goals I was talking about board goals right that We didn't have >> We have the board goals and I resent them to you just a few minutes ago. >> No, no, I know we have them. I don't recall us having any specific action steps. >> It's included in there.
>> Well, well, if they are, we never really >> It's true. We did not review them regularly because we didn't we lost our president. Yeah. >> So, one second. We did not not only did we not review them but we didn't have um any sort of like formal taking like
formal following of the action plan if you will right so it's not that we were you know doing these steps and just not reporting out on them we just didn't do anything >> and to be fair right this has been a big year for Berkeley Heights you had change in administration right with a new
brought in a new superintendent that was a a big process for you to undertake Um it's not necessarily a terrible thing to say that right what we we want to do it's not about being wrong it's about being better right so um looking at
those goals um but also knowing that now the next step right you you had goals before and action plans there were perhaps reasons why you moved away from really focusing on those I will say that board goals and action plans are really
meant to keep the board focused on its governance not just when you're writing the goals, but through the year, right? So that you're really changing um and improving as you go. So on the next sheet, we have a sample did these get distributed? Um we have a sample
worksheet, okay, for board goals. And this is actually just sample of how you'd write a goal on the top and then break it out into the steps. And part of this is to address what your
major activities are. You know, who's involved, the resources, the time, and indicators of success, right? What we really want is to add a layer of objectivity on here. So, we want to start out just the way you would with your district goals with superintendent
to say, well, how are we going to know we actually met the goal? We don't want to be at the end of the year all disagreeing with I think we did it and I think we didn't, right? and then people disagree. Well, we want to say this is what the goal is. This is how we're going to know that we've achieved it. And we want to put that down from the
beginning. So, if you flip over that sheet, I just want to draw your attention to there's there's um it's filled out with a sample goal. Now, this is only a sample. Um I think you're feeling confident that the superintendent evaluation that was a goal and that you moved forward and did
that in a timely way. But it's just talking about that as a sample to say if the board goal was to evaluate the superintendent in a timely manner. Right? Very brief statement. What are we trying to do? What's our goal? The major activities are broken out there. Setting
your annual goals. Um board sets date for each step of the process, right? When will a superintendent have her self-ealuation done for the superintendent's evaluation? Then setting those dates for when the board is expected to complete their
part. The date where the board comes together to discuss the findings and find the majority opinion. The date that you're going to meet and deliver it and discuss it with the superintendent. Those are action steps. The next would be um evaluating based on progress
towards goals and the evaluation itself. Right? That's what you need to do. And submitting the written performance report to the superintendent. So all those are samples of the steps in that process for board goals. So
looking at um looking at now trying to come up with say three goals and developing action plans. If you look at what's in front of you, if you look at what's in front of you, it might be helpful to consider
sample goals, right? And I'm just these are just samples that I've come up with. based on what you reported. Um, vision, mission, and goals. Under that section, a a possible goal could be align the work of the board with the aspirations
of the mission statement. The objective being to bring focus and clarity to the board's governance. If that was your goal, we would talk about what action steps can you take and fill out the grid so that you would be able to hold yourself accountable to making progress
towards that goal. Okay. Under policy, a possible goal could bring could be to bring clarity and efficiency to the policy review and approval to support district operations. An objective would be that policies
should guide administration and not seek to administer the schools. Right? Your policies shouldn't be usurping the authority that belongs with the administration, but clarifies what you're expecting to happen in the running of the district. Right? Accountability for student achievement.
A possible goal could be to effectively serve students through the use of objective data and decision- making and planning. The objective being to ensure the district is wellrun. So these are just sample statements of what a goal would be. So now it's up to you. So at
this point, what is a goal, right? either from here or something else that you, you know, want to carry over from last year that you think is a goal that is worth focusing your attention on
based on your own self-evaluation of where you're seeing um you know opportunities for growth. >> So I apologize. Yes, I I just leave. >> Um, we have a issue where Mrs. Stanley
has to leave in a few minutes at 8:00. So, that means we will not have a board quorum. So, we will have to adjourn the meeting at that time before Mrs. Stanley leaves. >> I I would suggest that you can um
consider if you want to get started on this. You don't have to vote on anything tonight, right? This is not the end of it. It's to kind of maybe come up with one that gets us started and the board can work through this process and then outside of this meeting and then come
back and officially you know take up what the board goals for the year. >> So I think the attorney said that right if when I excuse myself >> that you would have to adjourn the meeting but that you could continue on as if it was a committee meeting. Um, do
you know can we continue to tape it >> as I think that would be >> I don't think so. >> No, >> no, I don't think Mr. Distler said that because we would have four members here to continue. It's not a quorum. >> We don't we don't right. It's
>> um >> I have to defer to your >> policy. So, I apologize. I wish uh we had enough people for a quorum, but I have 13 girls who look up to me and I don't want to. But but before I go, I just want to quickly um say that I'm
really glad that we did the evaluation and I think everyone was really genuinely honest in it and I think that's great. Um I I think one of my things that stood out looking at your data was definitely committee structure
>> um and using it wisely. Um, right because everyone's time is valuable and like you know really making sure these committee structures like people understand why we have committees, how they work, which committee does what I think is really important and I know we're already working on that a little bit in policy and trying to change our
committees. Um, but I think if we make that a goal it would be great. I love the idea of a board handbook really having something down written down like this is what you should do, this is how we communicate, I think would be great. Um, so I love that suggestion and then
um I think right like we've kind of discussed having a governance committee and maybe putting something on there on how that would work if we do move forward with that. Um, if you guys kind of discuss that and how to if we do want to move
forward because I think right governance is kind of what we're missing in a lot of this. So Mrs. Clary, could you give us an explanation of a governance committee? Yeah, your your governance committee um I I it really is the intention of what
you want it to be, right? So if I can say that a number of my districts don't necessarily have a separate committee, one of the things I would caution you about is creating more layers. Right? What I really stress is for you to have process that really supports the work
that you're doing that makes you operate efficiently to support the district operating efficiently. More nights out, longer meetings, right, aren't necessarily serving students. So, a governance
committee is sometimes used to help um formulate the creation of a handbook. You may not have to have it as, you know, a standing committee, but it could be um an ad hoc committee that comes together to kind of be focused on a very
specific task of creating a handbook that would help guide you in how you actually um interact with one another as a board. And then that would be the basis for onboarding new members as well, right? because you might want to
add some, you know, welcome to the board type things for an onboarding manual, but it's basically the handbook that you would have and it would bring some um stability to everyone understanding, you know, how do I get my questions answered um if something comes out of committee
so that it's not just being put on the board agenda or being spoken about at a board meeting, right? The with the focus of really trying to find efficiencies and how you work together. >> Yeah. So, unfortunately, I have to be there by 8. So, I'm just going to make a
motion to end uh the meeting. Okay. Uh yeah. Do we need to have um a motion to create an ad hoc committee to work on these board goals and then work on the manual or when are we going to meet again to work on these?
>> I think an committee is a good idea. >> So, wait, Pam, you made a motion to >> just end just end the um the official board meeting. Uh, I do think you can continue as a committee. I think that would be >> right. So, Gail, that wasn't the motion. The >> No, that was not the motion. >> No. So then, so Pam is making a motion.
I second. >> Um, well, that she was, she talked about her timeline. She's asked to leave a few minutes earlier. So, we're talking now before an official motion was made. Do we need to create an ad hoc committee for this process with the >> If I might interrupt just for a moment,
which might be helpful, I hope. Um I believe you're making a motion to close the meeting. We're going to continue the discussions about goal setting and the ad hoc committee. Um after the meeting is closed and we continue on as if it's a committee meeting. Was that your intent? >> Yeah. Is that the understanding?
>> Right. So I second it because she put the motion on. >> Right. And I second it. >> I just want to close the public meeting because we don't have a quorum. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. Um so we have a Mrs. Fanley made the motion. We have a second by Mrs. Jolly voice vote.
>> Yes. Yes. >> Uh uh. No. I I I wasted and came with my time and to to finally get here that we are going to be under these circumstances to not finish the day is upsetting to me.
I hope that you guys weren't aware that we were going to run into this situation and we owe it to the rest of us to have the respect to at least alert when there's not going to be enough people here.
>> I did receive an email, sorry, a text from Mrs. Connor today that she was not going to be able to attend due to conflict there. And I did receive a call from Mrs. Stanley that she had to leave early. I had no communication from Mrs. >> Positive. This was a coincidence, right? I I just think
I'm not going to object to meeting. I'm here I'm here to do business. I'm saying no. I don't want to stop the meeting. >> Ju just to be clear, I'm able to continue on with you with the Is that the issue? >> I understand that. Okay. >> Um
>> the work we're doing is not meaningful work with only half the board here. >> Yeah. >> Right. the the scores themselves show that we have a problem working together and a problem with communication, a problem with attendance and everything else. So,
with us doing it here without a full group, we're not making progress. We're spinning our wheels. >> Yeah, I I do think that there could be a benefit and it's for you to decide, not for me. I can stay or I can we can end it and I can leave. But there is a
benefit to moving forward to at least framing out what will happen about the board goals, right? To taking that step forward towards putting something down. I'm not sure about calling another special meeting. I know there's been some um negativity around special
meetings and the need to have another special meeting. >> So I I don't mean to make you stay, but I but I cannot agree to us agreeing to end the meeting. I'd rather abruptly end as you walk out and then be what it is, right? I'm not I'm not asking you to stay. >> I know. >> I was in your shoes. I do the same exact
thing. >> That's what I mean is is we're a board of eight, right? And I can't I can't hold my girls accountable because people don't show up, right? And I know I know and I agree. I I completely agree, right? Like >> but I got to be on record saying I'm not I'm against this. >> Yeah. >> Any other suggestions?
>> You have a you have a motion on the floor. You need to vote. >> Yes, we had the voice vote. And u madame uh secretary, we had three ascents and one descent. >> Yes, I said >> the meeting.
>> Thank you guys for >> yes, one no. >> Four. >> Four. Approve of going on. Continue. Ending the public session. ending the public session. >> Okay. And then continuing on. >> Okay. >> This is a joke. >> Okay.
>> Not that we disagree. >> No. What you say? >> Yeah. >> And again, >> I'm willing to invest the time, but if it's going to fall on deaf ears and we're just doing the work for it to then be rejected and not have a meaningful debate, then why why why we're going to have to redo it? >> All of us.
>> Well, I believe I'm here or not. We're officially out, right? >> I mean, I'll be honest. So, we're adjourned at uh 7:58.