Okay. Calling to order the regular meeting October 21st, 2025 of the Township of Burns Planning Board. All rise for the flag to the flag of the United States of America. and to the republic for it
stands one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Okay. The open public meeting statement 2025. In accordance with the requirements of
the open public meetings law of 1975, notice of this meeting of the planning board of the township of Bernards was posted on the bulletin board in the reception hall of the municipal building Kier Lane Basking Ridge, New Jersey. Was sent to the Burnersville News, Whippony, New Jersey to the Courier News,
Bridgewwater, New Jersey on 20 January 22nd, 2025. electronically mailed to all those people who have requested individual notice. The following procedure has been adopted by the Birds Township Planning Board. There will be no new cases heard after 10 p.m. and no
new witnesses or testimony will be heard after 10:30 p.m. Could I have a roll call, please? Miss Slavo >> here. Mr. Crane >> here. >> Mr. Koso >> here. >> Mr. Leazinski >> here. >> Miss Manu here. Mr. Mino
>> here. >> Mr. Seville >> here. >> Mr. Tangi >> here. >> Miss Smith >> here. We have a quum. Um >> I'm sorry I forgot everybody else. Mr. Drill >> here. >> Mr. Monaco >> here. >> Mr. Sly >> here.
>> And for the record, Miss Layman is present. >> And we have a quorum. And for the record, we had a um pre-notification that Mr. Eorio and Miss could not make the meeting. >> So, may I have a um motion to excuse
their absences, please? >> I'll make the motion. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Opposes are excused. Moving on to the approval of the minutes from the September 16,
2025 regular session. These minutes were distributed in advance to Members, does anyone have any comments, edits, suggestions? Seeing none, could I have a motion for the approval of the minutes as drafted?
>> Make that motion, chair. >> Thank you, Mr. Crane. A second. >> Second. >> Who was that? Mr. Lazinski. Oh, Mr. Tangi. Sorry. Mr. Tangi has a second. May I have a roll call, please? >> Mr. and Miss >> Oh, thank you, Mr. Crane. Yes,
>> Mr. Leazinski. >> Yes, >> Mr. Rabino. >> Yes, >> Mr. Cvil. >> Yes, >> Mr. Try. >> Yes, >> Miss Smith. >> Yes, >> Chairwoman Mr. Angelo. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Pass. Uh, the next item on the agenda is the
review of the annual parking report by Fellowship Village, Inc., 90 block 9301 lot 33 8000 fellowship roadc and I have our attorney present.
>> Yes. Good evening everyone. For the record my name is Jennifer Phillips Smith. I'm an attorney with Gibbons PC and I am here today on behalf of Fellowship Village Inc. This is a somewhat unusual appearance in that we are not here for a formal application but rather we're here in
connection with fulfilling a condition of an approval back in 2016. So, as most of you know, and just for the record, that Fellowship Village operates a life plan community, also known as a CCRC. And back in 2016, and actually even
before that, it filed an application to improve its campus. And specifically, it wanted to expand certain areas, notably a health center and a theater. That application was a somewhat contentious one in that there were objectors present
[Music] >> and there was a concern at the time um that the demand for parking due to the expansion of the campus to have a health center and a theater would create a parking demand that outstripped the supply of parking. At the time the board
did two things to mitigate that risk. Uh, one is it required a grassy oval area that's near the entrance to be set up with underpinningings such that it could be used for overflow parking. That's 54 spaces that have been identified in the report as the oval
parking. The other thing that the board did was require a parking management plan and in that plan there was a requirement for an annual parking report to be submitted for two years. Um those two years started once the certificates of occupancy were issued meaning that
the buildings were built. They were >> the certificates of occupancy issued. When did that 2-year periodically start? >> So I believe our last one was 20 2024 and I will have Mr. Aguular correct me if I'm wrong when I call him up. Uh we submitted our first report last year in
2025. It was reviewed by this board I believe in December of last year. At that time the board asked us to submit our second report. >> The first report was submitted in 2025. That report was of 2024. Correct.
>> The first report was dated for 2024. That's correct. And it was reviewed in December of 2024. >> 2024. Yes. >> Yes. >> The first report for 2024 was when
>> I can have Mr. Dean give the exact date, but I have it here. >> We have someone coming. >> There we go. May 3rd of 2024. >> May 3rd or May 30th? >> Third. Third. >> Okay. >> Of 2024.
>> The condition. This was condition 22 of the initial >> correct from 2016 and that incorporated Reference number 22 said the applicant shall implement
and abide by the parking management program dated February 16, 2016. A copy of which is attached here to reference here. >> Again, just for the record >> that was slightly modified in
20 22 resolution memorializing the elimination and modification of conditions. And on page six of that resolution from 2022,
modified 22, paragraph six to say that there are public conditions for tonight remain the same. Correct. >> That's correct. >> Condition paragraph seven of the parking
management program. February 16, 2016 says for two full calendar years following the issuance of permanent CO for the final building fellowship will prepare a comprehensive
annual parking demand study to be completed by a qualified independent professional. The annual parking report will include conduct of an on-site parking demand counts to identify peak parking demand by residents and employees
as identified by decals tags and that's another require parking and vacant spaces of paragraph seven paragraph says the annual parking report shall be submitted by December
staff plan and engineering consultants for review. The professionals will provide any recommendations to fellowships and the planning board for discussion at least 10 days prior to the first regularly scheduled meeting in January the
following year. A public hearing will not be required for this review and fellowship can voluntarily comply with training. So >> the first co the last co issued
>> I think 2023 actually I think it was 2023 we were a little late submitting the first report >> 2023 so the report that was submitted on May 324 it actually included
>> yeah included what >> actually both reports have included data going back to 2021 So we started collecting data 2021, 2022, 23, 24 and the >> May 3rd, 2024 report include data up to
2024. >> It included data and I can have Mr. Dean answer this specifically. So included data up until that that date of that report. And >> the second report that you submitted was when? >> Uh June 25th, 2025. And that included
data through that date. And actually uh in the report in the back it includes the data that fellowship collected from 2021 22 23 24 up through the middle of >> up through May end of May 2025.
>> The report that's in front of the board for review and discussion tonight is the June 25 2025 reported by Dolan. >> That that's correct. Even though the condition says it's supposed to be submitted
by December one >> so that it can get on to the first planning board meeting in January >> it is and then you want to do that forwarding
another report but I think you should start off by going through Yeah. >> June 25, 2025 >> and then you have a review from UTRS written by Grace who if everyone's aware
is no longer with them or you has everyone >> Mr. Monaco >> Mr. Monaco >> good to meet you >> who's taking place now >> they have a memo
I'll continue. >> I do. Let's get on. >> Perfect. So, as we present, we're gonna have Mr. Aguular speak with you. He's um with operations and the head of Fellowship Village just to give you a sense of where this data came from that
Mr. Dean then relied on in part. And then I'll have Mr. Dean uh answer questions. But just to kind of cut to the chase, at the end of the day, the two reports that we've submitted have shown that at any given time, more than 40% of the spaces on the site are
vacant. So even if there's been a few questions here or there about exactly how certain data was collected or could be tweaked, more than 40% of the spaces are vacant. This planning board, when it put the condition in place in 2016, was afraid that we're there was not going to
be enough parking. And the the purpose of these reports was to establish that not only is there enough parking, there's plenty of parking. >> That's not each location. >> Well, that's and we can go through that, but at the end of the day, most of the locations have
significant vacancies in parking. >> You're probably want to talk about the location >> the other person's name. >> So, we'll we'll bring up Mr. Agular. >> How do you spell his name? A U I L A R
and what's your position on the executive director at Fellowship Village? >> We'll have Mr. Agular come up, but just to kind of conclude the opening remarks here. >> We'll go through the report and go through the questions, but what you're going to hear tonight is, for example,
what did we not count? Well, we didn't count individual driveways of people's homes that are not open to the public. Frankly, it would be disingenuous of us to do that because if a driveway spot is open, that doesn't mean anyone can park in it. Only the homeowner of that location can park in it. So, if there's a question between whether there's 559
spaces or 614, the difference is the individual driveways and garages that are associated with the independent living units. Uh you'll also hear today that fellowship has been out there dedicating hours and hours and hours of service every week to individually counting these spaces three to four
times a week since 2021 using staff that is supposed to be driving seniors to the grocery store and instead they're counting spaces. So when >> they agreed to this >> they agreed they agreed to two years >> and they didn't comply with the two years. >> What we're saying is we've submitted two reports and we've complied with the two
years and respectfully >> we respectfully though the data is here. The data has been collected for five years. It's not as if they didn't collect the data. And what we're asking for is for this to be enough, that we have established that there's more than enough parking on this site, that there is no need for fellowship to continue to
go out and count day after day after day to continue to establish that more than 40% of the spaces are vacant. So with that, I'll bring up Mr. Aguilar just to give you a little more background on what's been happening on the site. So Mr. two fellowship and our two
professionals. Everyone please raise your right hand. Does everyone affirm the testimony you're going to give during this truth? >> I do. >> I do. >> I do. >> Markul, >> executive director of Fellowship. >> Correct.
>> Fellowship Village. >> Fellowship. There's been a corporate name change since 2016. So that fellowship senior living is now Fellowship Village Inc. >> Mr. Jean is the applicant's traffic engineering expert. Correct.
>> Correct. >> Okay. >> Planner and the planning expert and identify yourself. >> Uh my name is Robert Monaco. M O N O. I'm a professional engineer.
>> You're the engineering and I'm the engineering expert for the board. >> Okay. Mr. Agular, you just introduce yourself to the board and explain in general what an executive director does at >> so um Mark Aguilar, executive director
of Fellowship Village. I was first a CFO there from 2009 2016. So I did painstakingly have to go through those um applications for this and then I left and then I came back as the executive director in 20121 of August. So I've
been the executive director at Fellowship Village from that time and the executive director oversees the whole community operations um from information systems from landscaping or residents uh my my team members just overseeing the whole
community and reporting to the um uh CEO of fellow fellowship village which is fellowship life >> Brian Lawrence >> Lawrence >> Mr. Agular, what has fellowship been doing to comply with the parking
management plan with respect to taking counts of parking spaces? >> So, three to four times a week um a transportation um team member goes out there and does the counts at 10:00 in the morning and then at 4:00 in the afternoon. It takes roughly about um 30
minutes uh per count. So, 30 minutes in the morning, 30 minutes at night. So, we're talking the three to four hours a week of that person's time taken away from taking um like you perfectly said from transporting residents to um shops,
from transporting residents to see their doctors that are around the um the town or outside the town. So, it does take some time to do and take away from them serving our our seniors. >> Mr. Aguard, have you provided that data to Mr. Dean?
>> Yes. Um we uh collected the data and then we give uh Dean the information uh that you see in front of you um based on you know the averages for the month. >> Which who's the employee that does these counts every day? >> Uh mostly it's our transportation
manager. Um it but that varies you know that transportation manager is going to be off a week might be sick. So we then we have to then move it to a plan operations person. So it does jump around and does sometimes put stress on that uh department because uh we're not
fully staffed. Also >> that person isn't a professional. >> No, no, they're not. >> My understanding this study was supposed to be done by professional. >> Well, this daily counts are done by this person. I think this this the study is done by done by the dean.
>> Put it this way. The study was done by Dean Dolan and Dean. Correct. >> Correct. and and Dolan and Dean also went and did some independent counts, but they don't count every day. It would be extraordinarily cost prohibitive to hire a civil engineer to come out to a site for five years and count every three to four times a week.
>> I would agree that >> but but we did have uh Dolan and Dean come out and do their own counts to make sure that the counts that they were receiving seemed in line with their professional counts. >> So they did some spot checking. >> They came out they came out and did counts. I'll have Mr. But specifically, they did the counts
for the 2024 report and then they came out and did report for 2025. They collected twice on a Friday and then on a Saturday. >> The people that you have taken the counts, they're doing hand counts. >> Yeah, they're doing hand counts. >> They're handing something in. Yeah. A piece of paper or something. >> Yeah. And then log it in.
>> Okay. Then are you sending the paper to Mr. Dean or are you then transposing it from that to some other form to get >> We put in an Excel format. So it then calculates, you know, the whole month and then calculates an average. the person who's collecting the data. >> Okay. So that would be the
transportation manager. >> Yes. >> Or the plan operations person. >> Yes. Mostly if the if the just give you background if the transportation purposes >> Yeah. They're going to just give that >> mo the transportation manager. That's
what I wanted to get across. Yes. >> How long have they been collecting this data? >> From 2021. >> Okay. And the data that the most recent data when was that collected? It's being collected as we speak. Um, and we the last one that we gave to here is, I
believe, up to May 30th. >> That's correct. This report was submitted to this board in June and included counts through the end of May. >> Not not June 25th, 2022. >> Uh, so it was through May 30. We submitted the report in June of 2025. >> Yeah.
>> And the counts included data up through May 30th of 2025. So the last complete month before receive this report. >> This report is dated June 25th, 2022. >> There's a bunch of reports. This is this is the one.
>> Oh, you're right. In the in the header on the second page on the second page, >> it's incorrect. >> But on is that >> that's a typo. >> Typo. It's June 25th, 2025. I apologize. I didn't realize the header. >> Yeah, >> mistake in the header. So, but June
25th, 2025. So, and in that report, Mr. regular. Like I said, just to draw everyone's attention, starting kind of in the back here, there are five pages that include the monthly counts from 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, and
through May, end of May 2025. Correct. >> Correct. >> And those averages were calculated by fellowship using the transportation manager and other staff to collect those counts. >> Correct. >> And then did you engage Mr. Dolan or sorry, Mr. Dean of Dolan and Dean to
come out to the site and take additional counts. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, that's all I have for Mr. Agular. I'd like to now justify the board. >> Thank you. >> So, I just asked Mr. Dean to come forward.
>> Good evening, >> Mr. Dean. Could you introduce yourself to the board and just provide background on your general credentials? >> Sure. My name is Gary Dean Dean. I'm a licensed professional engineer that specializes in traffic engineering and
transportation consulting for municipalities uh among other responsibilities involving NJ do. Um I've been appearing before this board of your predecessors for the past 40 years. I think my first
uh engagement was with the Hills as it moved from Bedminster into Bernards, but I've also represented the Somerset Hills YMCA, VNA, Millington Baptist Church, uh and and Fellowship Village for years as >> an expert in front of this board. Correct. >> Yes, I have. Mr. Joe,
>> ever question your qualifications to be an expert? Correct. >> Let's not make tonight the first, but yes, >> thank thank you, Madam Chair. >> So, Mr. you were engaged by fellowship to perform additional counts above and beyond their their weekly and daily counts. Correct. >> Correct. And the reason for that is
while I could have accepted fellowship's data, I I felt it prudent to provide an independent evaluation to ensure that, you know, their staff knows how to count parking spaces and that the findings would be consistent with a an independent evaluation completed by our
firm. So, >> who did your traffic counts >> and how did they do them? Not to bring back memories of Rar encounters, but were they done by hand or they done it, you know, with the computer? >> We take a picture.
>> We when we do parking studies, we either personally walk every court and count the number of parked cars and vacant cars or sometimes we fly a drone. And the reason is in a drone you can get an instant snapshot. In this instance, we
had staff walk through the campus and individually count the cars. To answer Mr. Drill's question, I believe the individual was our project engineer Sam Foster and we consulted first with fellowship to ensure that they had theater events
uh on the days that we selected uh and that those theater events were selling we'll say briskly. And I believe on the Saturday uh event of this year that the >> Saturday >> uh Saturday May 17th with full
attendance. So, we expected that whatever parking demand we would find would be representative of typical conditions for a full theater event, which I don't I don't know which board members were were here in 2022 or 2016, but the issue was
highly sensitive in that the concern arguably for many of the residents of Fellowship Village in that their parking for their individual courts and their quote unquote spaces could be overburdened. with theater events. And so a number of safeguards were built
into the application presented to the board. We created um they're called grass paver spaces in an area known as the oval which is closest to the theater that would serve as an additional means call it belt and suspenders to
accommodate any potential parking overflow or surplus. Um what we have identified is that Fellowship Village has conducted 53 months of data times say three or four times a week. So it's
a sampling of 150 upwards of maybe 200 individual counts. Bear in mind they're done twice a day. So now we're into literally hundreds of observations. and and my role in this again was simply to independently uh verify that the
findings are are consistent you know wi without any um influence by fellowship and so we have prepared the two reports both have been identified May 3rd of 2024
and that included a summary of three full years worth of parking data uh from 2021 2022 2 and 2023. And then in my supplemental or second report, should I say of June 25th of
this year, um we reproduced those same 2021 findings, but also included 2024 and the five months of 2025 up to the the date and issuance of this report. to cut to I'll say the findings
in the summary. We have 200 spaces available all the time minimum and this is for a full theater event um with full occupancy at Fellowship Village. So the applicant has certainly in my opinion
fulfilled their obligations not only to appropriately design the site and that was a major concern with the theater uh but to ensure that sufficient parking would exist not only for their residents but for any theater attendees. >> Just one note on the theater attendees.
You mentioned that this May 17th counting occurred when the theater was operating and full, but on May 16th you were out there at 10 a.m. and 4 p.m. >> Correct. And was there also a theater event that on May 16th >> or can't can't recall that. >> I don't recall that. And I believe in
the um I I know the counts that fellowship has done included a theater event. I couldn't attest to the specific dates of that. But I do know just given the the the the data that's been collected, there were theater events. Um
but that's why Saturday night certainly a peak time for theater. We we wanted to ensure that we collected that data. >> And in general, in the data that you saw, does it look like the 54 spaces in the oval are used on any regular basis? >> No. Mi minimally used. Um I'm trying to
get to the actual findings. >> Those 200 spaces that you say are available at all the time minimum during full attendance events. Where are those 200 spaces located? >> They're strewn throughout the campus. Correct. Now there are some spaces I I
think there was a discussion and certainly the data shows for example there are select 15minute only parking spaces they get used all the time you know as as we find when we go to the supermarket the spaces closest to the front door are full as we get further
and further removed from the main entrance there's abundant parking and >> no everything was self park um that is correct people going to the theater. Was there any ass stickers on the cards?
>> Not for theater attendance. >> No, no, no. For res. >> Yes. Residents have >> Is there any count of how many residents actually went to the theater versus outside? >> You mean you're you're talking how many people walked from their residence to the theater versus people driving to
park? The other part of that question is if people are driving there and you have an event that people from the Phil fellowship aren't going there, there could be more people from the outside. So what what percentage do you think
>> do you have any idea? >> I don't because when staff counts a parked car, it's just a parked car. We we don't know whether it's a resident, whether it's a visitor, whether um the conditions of approval required that the theater, I'll say employees, actors,
what have you, parked um in the lower healthc care center a lot. >> And how many times was the theater counted? >> That's what he's looking to see. He did one check count, but he's looking to see if you can tell at the fellowship people how many theater.
My concern is a lot of people from fellowship for for one reason or another did not go and had traffic from outside filling the spaces. >> I don't know if there's any way of telling that >> but there would have to be 200 cars to fill up the spaces. Correct.
>> Correct. In other words, >> if you had a show that was wildly popular with all the people in fellowship, so you didn't have a lot of people driving in saying, "Okay, Maybe you could have 200 available spaces.
What if you had a show where they had more people from the outside driving in? Maybe that's less spaces. That's why he's wondering if fellowship did their counts on any days where there was some other full theater attendance event.
>> I'll have to defer to Mr. Agular and and and the question is my my understanding and and it may even be reflected in the resolution is that when there is a theater event the mobilization is considerable and so the events uh or the
performances would be held over a multi-day period and that fellowship residents tend to go to the the grand opening and and again I'll defer to the applicant but then as as the novelty if you will of the show was worn off for
those residents and then it's available to the public. Then we start to have the public coming in from the outside. >> You want to ask you call them now or do it later? >> What's the capacity? >> So we have a question on the floor about >> there's going to be two questions asked
of you. The first question is what's the standard capacity? How many >> 253 to 257 seats? I remember >> Saturday >> 253 to 257 seats. I don't know exactly but in that range. >> Okay, that's the capacity of the Mr.
Crane wants to know when when you had staff doing the counts. Mr. Dean did a check count and one day of his check count on Saturday, May 17, 2025, they did counts when there was full attendance at the fair. What Mr. Crane
wants to know is any of the staff counts happened when there was full attendance at the theater or any other dates? >> There could have been. Yes. I don't know exactly. >> Could have he wants to know where were they? >> Well, I would have to go back and look at the data what dates where they were done, but they're they're sporadic throughout every you know during the
week. They're not set on every day. So, it could be picked that the person goes out there and there is an event going on. So I don't know exactly if what month there would have been a count on an event day, >> but you're going out three to four times a week. >> So there's a chance a chance in the afternoon,
>> right? There's a good chance that it would be counted. >> They're not looking for chance. They're not looking for guesses. They're not looking for estimate. They want to know if can you can you determine that's what he's want to know. How many times did you count when there was full attention? That's his question, >> right? >> Yeah. I don't have that in my head. I
would have to go back and look. >> Mr. Okay. >> The engineer's testimony was that his findings the his engineering firm's findings were consistent with that of the individual doing the daily counts. Correct, >> Mr. Dean. Is that correct?
>> Yes, that is correct. >> So, in what way is it consistent if you did it? I guess that's what we're asking of you. How is it consistent if those are done at 10 a.m. and 4 p.m. and your counts were done at an evening performance? >> We also did daytime counts. We counted
at 10:00 a.m. and 4 p.m. just the way Fellowship did again to make sure that what we were seeing independently matched their findings. And the answer is yes. >> 10 a.m. and 4 p.m. >> Correct. And that's >> that's noted in the report, both
reports. And it when you counted on Saturday, May 17th at 7:30 p.m. during a fully attended during a fully attended theater performance, was there more or less vacancy than at 10:00 a.m. and 4 p.m.?
There was more vacancy, meaning we had during the weekday we had a vacancy rate of of about 40 to 47%. For our
full capacity theater event on Saturday, May 17th, we had 57.8% vacancy, >> less parking during a theater event than during the week. >> Are you familiar? Go ahead. >> Mr. While while you're in the hot seat,
um you know, given that you are a traffic or engineer and an expert, um would you recommend or or provide any additional improvements to fellowship's current practice in counting lots
>> in what was the last in >> Fellowship Village is currently counting lots? >> Yes. >> Would you make any recommendations or improvements to their current practice? >> They could do a whole lot fewer. They they've overstudied this adnauseium. I mean that that the sheer
amount of information that's available quite frankly if we printed it all out you know we would take a box of copier paper there's so much data available hundreds of samples. So the whole objective in our traffic management plan
was let's give the board a snapshot to make sure that the hours we spend deliberating over the parking sufficiency has been proven and and rather than just a a twoyear I mean a two sample snapshot
Mr. Agular and his staff literally has gone above and beyond. So, I I think the data is overwhelming and they they've proven their case that they have a lot of surplus parking on the campus. If they
if they didn't, they they would be here looking for a parking lot expansion application. >> Why is it that in the resolution it said that there was a requirement that the two peak parking demand for outside groups
that data for that and you guys didn't give it >> we we we've given that data >> so on the memo from September 10th 2025 by under the second program review page
number three this report does not provide data parking demand from outside group events for a minimum of two theater events there is data for one theater event this office recommends that future reporting continue to include specific data theater events is
required in the resolution. So the resolution required two theater events and you gave one. I mean you went through a lot of trouble to comply with everything else. I'm just wondering why this was such a glaring mission. >> My office
independently looked at parking during a theater event. The expectation is and fellowship has over the past four years collected the same data. >> That's That's what Mr. Mr. Crane, what
they're trying to find out is they were supposed to look at at least two theater events. They understand you looked at one as a check and you also did counted 10 and four as a check. They're not questioning you. They're questioning did
fellowship do the two event counts that they were supposed to do? And if not, why not? That's what they're that's what they're trying to ask. It sounds like you jump through a lot of hoops, but one of the main things in the resolution was this because this was the concern for the community,
>> right? >> Mr. Dean, in my question to you, I think your response was essentially they collected a lot of data. >> I would argue that garbage in, garbage out. If you're collecting bad data, you're ultimately going to get a bad result. Would you amend your initial testimony to say that you have no
additional recommendations to their data collecting? I I wouldn't qualify it as garbage. They consulted with me as to what should we count. We had the discussion. We had the template of the parking management plan that was included in the 2016 resolution and
Fellowship Village has been doing that. So I I that is data. We're not we're not we don't have variables. We're not conducting science experiments. It is a a a recitation of someone observed with their eyes a number of parts cars. That
is the data you have before you. >> Just for the record, I just want So when I read before paragraph seven of this parking management program, I read the first paragraph and I read the third paragraph. I need to read the second paragraph. The second paragraph says,
"Demand studies shall be conducted on typical days of operation at Fellowship Village and shallcl a minimum of four week days during the late morning and early afternoon periods. He's testified
10:00 a.m. and 4 p.m. >> And then it says a minimum of two theater events shall be included in the study to ascertain peak on-site parking for outside group events. Period. That's what if I said it before, maybe it would
have been more focused, but that's what the questions are focused on. That's the That's really the the only thing that so far the board is focusing on. Can you do you need Could you like take 15 minutes for 10 minutes and find if you if you've
done that? >> If there was ever a theater performance at 4 p.m. on any of the days that you counted? >> Well, put it this way. Did you if you only did 10 and four, then you're going to have to find out if you had a theater performance either at 10 or 4. If the fair performances aren't at 10
and four and you haven't you haven't complied with that and they want to see that they're they're not questioning what Mr. Dean did. >> And we're not questioning you put in a lot of hours but the resolution is such written that you had to adhere to this
>> show. I understand the question. We just have to >> Do you need Do you need five minutes to talk to see if you can do it or is that possible to figure it out as we stand here tonight? I'll say for the part portions of the file I brought tonight it I would not be able to keep >> Did you bring any
>> not that detail? No, >> no, it's not >> hundreds and hundred pages >> prematurely cut things off but not to you know >> waste a bunch of time. Yeah, >> maybe you should go back figure out
hopefully you have that data. >> And if we don't, would it be sufficient to go and count one more theater event instead of another 365 days of data? >> Correct. >> So if that is that the request, >> trying to overly burden you, but also as a board, we're required to make sure the resolution.
>> They're doing their due diligence. They want to make sure, >> right? So if we count one more theater event, we can then bring that to the board and assuming it shows the same thing that all the other data has shown. >> So the only question is going to be does the board want to go with its engineers
recommendation to require this for one more year or not >> to show that we have 200 spaces available every day for another year. >> Well, why don't we get the other theater event? You might have a stronger argument if you have it. >> Okay. >> Again, we're not trying to overly burden you. I know that this is a little bit
cumbersome, but >> you did agree to it to get your resolution >> and you didn't. >> Yeah. And just again for the record, the vote to approve this was four in favor, three against. That's number one. Number two, there were at times 100 objectors
in the audience. Approximately half of them, almost all of them were from Fellowship Village. Approximately half of them were opposed to the application specifically because of the theater being open to outsiders. And approximately half of them were in favor and they were arguing with each other
during the hearing. It was it was worse than the hearing and the mosque application. >> Understood. Okay. >> And that >> but but that was just >> just to be clear that was nine and 10 years right nine and 10 years ago at
this point and these have been in operation now >> and and we we have and if the question is if we need one more count >> we either need one more count or we need to share with you the data Mr. Aguilar has from a specific theater event. So
>> So if we go back and do Sure. Sure. Go ahead. >> One at a time. >> Oh, was there something that >> we do have a question down here. >> Okay. >> You guys were talking. So, let me have this question. >> I'm just trying to get clarity on the price report from June 20 September 2025
>> where he says that the report does not provide data for peak parking demand from a minimum of four weeks. I mean, the late AM and early PAM periods. I'm reading from paragraph two. So I just want clarification because the focus has been on not complying with the two peak
theater events. I understand >> but what is the outcome with respect to compliance with the minimum of four weeks? >> We have clearly complied with that. If if it's a matter of the reviewer not understanding what was submitted, we're happy to clarify that. But as I've
indicated, we have 53 months worth of daily parking counts twice a day. >> No, I understand. Her question is the the requirement in the
parking management program was that the check parking demands from a minimum of four weekdays in the late AM and early DM. So, she's questioning is 10:00 a.m. a peak demand time there and is 4 pm a peak demand time there. That's what
question and if if the answer is yes, explain to the board why the epitome of clarity, but I'm reading a pair I'm reading a sentence that says the report does not provide data for peak parking demands from a minimum of four weekdays during the late AM and early pm period. So, there's a couple of questions there.
What is the definition of peak am and peak pm? And if we're going to go with 10 and four, has that been done four times a week? >> Those are two questions. >> Sounds like it has been on the ladder. Are we taking is someone testifying that
late AM is 10 and early PM is four? >> That would be okay. So the question for Mr. Agular is did you do it four times a week? >> Yes. An average. >> For Mr. Dean is I think it's only it was only required to be done four times total. They've been doing it three to
four times a week >> for years. So that's but it was only required to be done four times total. Mr. Dean that can answer the second question. >> What's that? >> That I mean that's part of my question. The requirement was what? Four weeks
during my resolution. It's paragraph >> seven. >> All right. I'm 43 now. She goes like a day back in May or something like that.
as you as >> well this is where we need four total or four per week is a major difference here >> but they've been doing it a lot more than four total >> right three to four times a week since 2021
>> yeah but what does it say >> shall be conducted on typical days of operation shim during the lake okay what per week >> total period >> total per annual report. >> Yeah, let's make this simple.
>> So, this is what I mean. >> So, I don't think that's an issue here. It's clear that you all have done correct me if I'm wrong. If anyone disagrees with me, you have done a lot of studies for me. The main objective here
with the second theater event, we can cross that off of our list. If anyone else disagrees with me, please let me Let's be clear with what we're asking them so that we don't overburden them, but also we comply with the resolution. >> But can Mr. Dean, can you confirm is
10:00 a.m. and 4 p.m. peak parking demand times during the day? >> In my opinion, yes, it is. >> Explain why. >> I I was about to. So late AM the intent is as as there are visiting
practitioners who come in to assist individuals at fellowship um more visitors postrush hour that the area around 10:00 a.m. is certainly late AM and it encompassed and I don't know if they were all done exactly at 10:00 a.m.
but we're certainly in that >> they weren't done at 7 a.m. >> Correct. >> No or 8 a.m. where you assume this is a assumption, but older people probably sleep a little later. I don't know. >> Yeah. >> Well, what he's saying is the aids come in the work.
>> That's exactly right. >> And the expectation and and visitors. So, whoever may be visiting an individual at fellowship, >> the aids come in, the visitors come in. >> So, so the intent was to evaluate the parking trends at that
time. And then as we get into what was the other term early early afternoon >> again residents are starting to return home from various appointments you know dinner will be served shortly thereafter and and again there may be those
individuals also visiting parents relatives postwork and so late PM is 10 or you know this time a night or >> no it's >> and we didn't do that >> well you did it once at 7:30 but on
purpose because it was for the fair >> and and that goes to the second prong of this requirement and I think Mr. Joel, I I appreciate your comment or chair that in my opinion fellowship has at least fulfilled their obligation to study
daytime. The issue unresolved at this moment is the additional theater event monitoring. Is that a fair summary? >> Yes. >> All right. And if we can remedy that to have that, we will >> we will remedy that. Yes.
You said that theater capacity of 57% capacity capacity that was higher than >> let's get the fact you testified I thought weekday you had 40 to 47%
vacancy rate correct >> on May 17 2025 at 7:30 p.m. when you had a full theater attendance you had a 57.8% % vacancy. >> That is correct. >> So explain how that works because you would think the residents are home
leaves that complex back. I understand there might not be the physical health people in the morning. Why did as an expert in traffic >> why such a difference? >> Fewer would do a very good job.
>> Sure. Fewer employees on campus once the 3:00 shift and then um fewer visitors and anyone who's been visiting or for those residents still in the independent units, they might be out at dinner
having you know social events. So, I can only report the facts. I can't necessarily determine why that is. I I >> So, your employees leave at 3:00. There's no other employers there after three. >> No, we have three shifts.
>> There are three shifts. Yeah. >> Fewer. Is there fewer people at 3:00? >> Yeah. When the when the morning day shift ends, the night shift comes in, it's a little bit less and the overnights more or less. Yeah. >> I would not be able to give that time ahead. Okay. What do you know what your
shifts? How many total numbers are on your shifts? >> I do not know that. >> But then in addition to your employees, do you also have people visiting the campus who are independent healthcare people like people like visiting nurses and other healthcare people? >> Yes. And doctors are coming on on campus
too and they leave too. >> Yeah. >> But but they would be there earlier in the day. >> Yeah. They mostly there. And so that may explain why the vacancy rate at 10 a.m. on a weekday is less than 7:30 p.m. on a Saturday. >> Okay. >> Mr. Bon.
>> Yes. >> Do you have something to add to this? >> Yes. Thank you. Thank you, chair. Thank you, board. >> Is that mic on Dave? >> Uh, can you hear me now? >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> U I I just want to for the record Huh. Uh the parking supply is adequate in the sitewide demand. It never exceeds capacity. Okay. The data collected was
for one peak weekday and one theater event. The resolution requires data from at least four weekdays and two theater events. The report cites 559 spaces. The
approved plans list 614. Future reporting must include all parking spaces, public and private, as the resolution does not distinguish between public and private.
Future reports must provide a complete asbuilt inventory and justification for any changes. Occasionally zero availability instances were reported during isolated peak moments. These should be tracked and explained.
>> Now were those in particular areas? Not overall because you said parking supply is adequate overall. This is particular area. >> Yes. The recommendation is one additional year of parking utilization reporting to address these outstanding compliance
items and to align the reporting with all resolution requirements. I'm saying this to protect both because you know as well as I do that there could be problems in the future by
complying with the resolution. For example, the the report does not provide for peak parking demands from a minimum of four weekday during the AM and early PM periods. The data provided from 2021
through 2025 are average values. To your point, uh, Miss Mander, the report only includes the collection of data from one peak demand day. The report provides a summary and comparison to the average
data collected and peak analysis based on the data provided and the overall available spaces. This office accepts this approach. Okay. Uh skipping down to uh second page. Um the resolution does not refer
to public parking only. Thus, the report should be for all parking at the site within the application resolution. Also, the report and tables should be revised in future reporting to address items listed in our July 15, 2024
report. Okay. The resolution does not utilize the term public. A detailed explanation of each change to the parking layouts from the approved plans should be provided. These and all discrepancies should be
addressed in future reporting. The potential issues de uh identified uh in the November 12th, 2024 report uh should address uh >> there were a few instances where zero
spaces were available during peak analysis in the report. These should be specifically addressed in future reports as well as any future specific issues. So the recommendation >> so what you're referring to
>> your office well when before UTRS purchased Finelli Consulting Finelli Consulting FCE they had a July 15 2024 reporter they had a November 12
2024 report. So what your September 10, 2025 letter says on page two, bottom half of the page,
your item, second paragraph, your item one says the report and table should be revised in future reporting to address the items listed in the July 15, 2024 report. July 15, 2024 report.
Make it easy on us is what items in there did they not have? And then I'm going to ask the same question about item three in your September 10 25 2025 report says
potential issues identified in the November 122 24 November 12 2024 report should be addressed in future reports. So again I'm going to ask what are the issues in that November 12 20204 report that
weren't in Mr. Dean's report? >> I don't know. I I first need to clarify um the parking management program that's included in the resolution specifies the streets on which the parking study would
be done and those streets were chosen because those are the publicly accessible streets where theater attendees could attend. So, where in the parking management program does it point out those streets?
>> It lists them twice on page one >> in the first bullet point. >> Hold on. >> That was that's under the implementation of the sequentially numbered colorcoded parking detail and tag program to be used for all resident and employee
vehicles. That's where it say >> I'm I'm referring to attached to the resolution >> parking management program dated February 16. >> Correct. >> Yeah. And I'm looking at implementation guidelines paragraph one. >> Before that, Mr. Drill, I'm going to the
very first bullet point under the purpose statement. >> Okay. Okay. And that first bullet point reads to maintain a sufficient number of available spaces for residents and their visitors at and I'm going to read all
the streets Antioch Court, Burba Court, Emmas Court, Ephesus Court, Jericho Court, and Gilead Court. Those same streets are also cited under number one implementation guidelines.
>> Right. Where does it say under condition in condition five I see as changes occur in residential tenency and vehicle ownership of the independent units in the court's
name below and it names those same streets. >> Correct. >> You're going to initially review residential parking assignments. A log of all such reassignments will be kept for inclusion in the annual parking report. It doesn't say that those were
the areas that were that had to be Well, let's see. Paragraph 7 says the annual report will include the conduct of on-site parking demand counts to identify peak parking demands by residents and
employees. Well, if that is by the decals hacks, then that would relate back to those five streets. and and okay >> in the summaries prepared by fellowship included in my report each of those named streets are included
>> and it also said >> paragraph seven also the health center lot and the upper oval parking lot and I assume that that's also mentioned in there >> those are also included correct >> so >> that is the scope of the parking management study the the requirement to exceed that scope I think on behalf of
fellowship we object to that there it's outside of the parameters of the resolution and the parking management plan. And secondarily, while the data was averaged for convenience, there is absolutely no question that fellowship has conducted counts on four weekdays.
If your engineer wants a sample of those four weekdays, we can do it. >> Let me ask you this. Did I assumed when Bryce wrote this report that all that data had been supplied to him. Was it or was it not? What? What? I don't know what was supplied to him other than presumably my two reports.
>> Correct. Reports are >> maybe he didn't see the underlying dat. >> Yeah. >> I'm going to ask the board, are you comfortable right now with what has been represented by Mr. Dean and Mr. Aar?
That's number one. Number two, are you comfortable with asking them for one additional theater event coming back? >> Before you ask the board that what days were your accounts done at 10 and 4? Which days did they do it? >> They don't have set days. They just pick
days and they do it during the week. So it's sporadically during the week. They could do it Tuesday, Monday, Thursday, Friday. Every day is is they they do one time. >> But they did did they do four days or not? >> Yes, in the week they did. How do you know? >> Well, that's what I'm getting from my
traffic my transportation manager that puts it in the log and looks I look at the days. >> Yeah, but you don't have you just said you don't have it here when they ask you a question >> because that's that's an average for the month. I don't have the daily count the daily data in front of me. >> You've reviewed them to understand that it's being done three to four times every single
>> right because what I look at is the the whole every day of the month and then we average it for the month in the report. The underlying date is available and if and if if it's to the board's pleasure as we will we will choose random weekdays >> to submit ju just for your to paper the
file to say here are the four specific weekdays for counts. >> I think that'd be a good idea. >> We've given you the average January through December >> but >> yes my suggestion is have them submit the underlying data so that can be
confirmed or not. Well, to be clear, >> are you asking for us to submit four days? Are you asking for us to submit four days or all of the underlying data? >> Show that. That's what we're obligated to, >> right? Show that that you did four days
of >> Yeah. >> Right. >> I mean, it's how we got an average. You take the four days, count, add it, divide by four. But I understand, >> right? >> We're getting penalized for giving too much data. The board engineer just wants
to see he understands the average. In fact, they even said in his report on number two that the report provides a summary and comparison to average data collection based on the data provided and the overall spaces. They accepted that approach. Right?
>> All he's saying is he wants to they want to confirm that you complied with the four weekdays and the two fair events. >> Yeah. Correct. want to comply with the resolution. Council,
>> I'm sorry. There's one thing that's I have a question on. You had mentioned, excuse me, sir. >> Yes, sir. You >> mentioned that there are 611 parking spots. >> 614. >> 614, but all the courts have 550. >> 614 is on the campus. We did not courts.
>> We did not count those courts that are for independent. We we stuck to the script. I just needed to collect connect those two dots. >> So just are you clear on that now? >> I am clear that >> I actually appreciate that they didn't count.
>> Can we hold for one second here? We might have another question. >> Does everyone understand what I'm asking for? What does any remind What are you What are you reading from?
>> This is the minutes from December 3rd, 2020. >> Okay. >> And basically, >> let's read it. >> Read it. >> Is that the best way? >> Okay. Attorney McFerson stated that Gary Dean, professional engineer with the firm Dolan and Dean had conducted the
study and prepared the report which is dated May 3, 2024. In response to the report, Mr. Good, the planning board's engineer stated that although there appeared to be sufficient parking on the site as a whole, the data provided in the report contained numerous
discrepancies and insufficiencies. A discussion ensued concerning whether to require one or two additional reports. Attorney McFersonson agreed to submit a new parking demand report no later than June 30th, 2025. I add they did and asked the board to with withdraw its
request for a second report if the first is deemed to be compliant with the requirements as outlined in the parking management program. So Ms. Master Angelo moves to withhold its decision on the parking study until after reviewing the report that will be submitted prior to June 30th 2025.
>> So that's what the board did last time. I'm gonna just simply ask what the engineer is. You're topnotch. You got top engineer here. >> Um just comply with the resolution. I'm sure you can do it. So there's no
discussion here. Let's have one more study here and let's get this over with. >> I just want to clarify. >> My personal opinion, >> but one more study would mean another year of counting. That's not what you're asking for, right? You're asking for one day of us to come in and do the theater. >> I'm asking that you do it till the
December 2025. Submit submit a study by December 1st of 2025. And just have if you don't have it, have it. If you do have it, include it the second theater thing in there. And if you do,
if you have it, include it. If you don't, do it four week days. Just make sure it's in that study. and dot the eyes, cross the tees, so that the so that the report that the board then reviews in January of 2026 puts this to
sleep and hopefully they say you're good. >> But that's not >> that's what Mr. Crane said yes >> and and that's respectfully this is not an insignificant undertaking or expense, right? So if if the issue is that we submitted another report and perhaps
maybe we should have had one more day, let us sub we'll submit the one more day. If the issue is you want us to keep counting and have Mr. Dean do a whole another report, that's that's going to cost several thousand dollars more. There's that's different. I don't think I need additional studies,
but I do need the four weekdays identified and the findings >> four week >> and they've already been done it time. So just produce >> the four week days in the theater. >> Correct. In the theater doesn't need to be a whole study evidence of those five
if you will events. No, I mean my concern is I'm looking at a 54page resolution 2016 that was obviously the subject of a lot of debate and then there's a parking management program that's incorporated by reference which hasn't been complied with to
so I struggle with whether we have the data that we need but we don't have the testimony tonight. So maybe we have to come back with the right people and the right underlying data so we can answer basic questions like what are the four days per week. >> Okay. So this is a so it's
>> so without without having that I can't really say do I need another year or not? >> So she's saying submit the additional 300 days submit the four week days and don't just submit it submit it but then come back with Mr. Dean and with Mr. Aguilar so to explain it and then hopefully
>> we can put this but right now we the testimony, the documents of the data to make that determination in my >> only because you don't have the dates of the four years of traffic here can tell me what the four days were. That's that's
right. You've testified. We're not on time. You testified that the data that you collected was consistent, but then you testified that the data for the theater event, you have nothing to compare it against. What are we supposed to do with that? >> We do with what? We have two years of
theater two dates annual events for theater events. So we've done I've done two samples of theater events in the parking. What we don't have are are whatever Mr. Aguilar staff has conducted four theater events. >> You only gave us one.
>> You only gave us one day. Just to keep it simple, >> we have a parking management plan that says give us four peak days. No one here can tell you what those four days were. We have a parking management plan that says two occupancy against no one here can tell us that two were done.
>> So, Mr. We came here a little bit halfbaked. We don't have the data. We don't have the test. >> Respectfully, you you have the uh the the >> Why were the four days that were conducted? What were the four days? >> Which month? >> It doesn't any month.
>> The resolution says four days. Pick the four days and give us the date. >> That's That's what I'm saying. >> That's my response. We will just give you any four days over the past four years where we've done studies and that will satisfy. >> It depends on what the data reveals.
>> I I don't know what the data reveals, but if you can't give me dates and the data, the underlying data for it, how are we supposed to even respond and say whether or not you've complied with the resolution? >> I think you hear the frustration because um we're being asked to decipher your reports
>> and we can't >> and we're asking for something to comply with the resolution. So, I'm going to keep going down the line. You're hearing the what you what we need to move forward. >> Mr. >> I concur with Miss
>> Mr. Four weeks and two theater days. >> I would agree, but I want to withhold my judgment until I see what the testimony is on that. >> But that's what they're saying. >> Yeah. I think just to be clear, I don't I don't want to keep getting, you know, back into this corner that once we get X, we're going to be satisfied. No, I
need to see the data and we may have follow questions. We may need more testimony and then we can answer whether we need for my opinion another year of this or not but that can't be reached tonight. You might think >> Mr. Craig >> I agree with the chair >> Mr. Tani
>> four weekdays one more event and I think you should I'm saying you should return to with your experts so we can ask all the questions we have satisfy my colleagues if you want us to be to say you're done with this otherwise you're risking going on for another >> right it would be worth your while
>> Mr. I I agree with the chair. I have a question though. Uh are the uh events you held held in the uh Sinski theater always sold out or are there ever times where it's half full? >> It's times it's half full. Yes. Sold
out. Half full parking. >> That was my first question to Mr. Agular when we were commissioned to do the study this year. I said I can't come before this board if you have a half sold theater. So we inquired as to the the specific theater performance to
ascertain that it would be at or very close to full capacity. >> I would ask that also that the two theater events that you give you've obviously given us one that's sold out. Give us another one that's sold out. >> If let me say if we do not have one that is sold out
>> to find you have to find one. You have to seek a continuence. >> I mean I don't do >> I have an option for that. >> Alternatively I can look at the attendance and if it was 75% >> that's what I'm saying >> with with a capacity of 250
we can make an estimate as to what filling that remaining 25% would have yielded even if it's a 100 cars >> well come to us when you know come to us with your best shot the next meeting
are you finished >> I'm finished >> Mr. Okay. >> Madam Chair, ju just for my clarification, >> we don't need fellowship doesn't need to take any more counts. We just need to give you
>> provided they have four weekdays. They don't have to do any more counts. >> Provided they have you're going to >> find something to do about that. >> Understood. But on the weekday counts, that's >> I think we're all on the same page here. Make it easy for us, please.
So I will entertain a motion for continuence. Correct. >> Yeah. Now the only question is when >> So Oh yes. So we are um not going to be having two um meetings in November. >> One's election day and one is during the league.
>> Yeah. A meeting of board professionals on um well first of all one is election day. That's the fourth. >> And then the other one is 18. Our next meeting is going to be schedu
will will a be back here on the second. If for some reason we do not have a suitable theater event between now and the second, we will so advise the board and request a continuence. >> Okay. So I just wanted to make it clear you are not meeting in November. So it sounds like we need more time. >> We need to make
>> sure there's a suitable theater. Okay. So I wouldain a motion for December like >> that was Mr. >> Miss Smith is seconding. May I have a
roll call? >> Mr. Crane, >> yes. >> Mr. Quo, >> yes. >> Mr. Leazinski, >> yes. >> Miss Mandu, >> yes. >> Mr. Rabino, >> yes. >> Mr. Til, >> yes. >> Mr. Treaty, >> yes. >> Miss Smith, >> yes. >> Chairwoman, Mr. Angelo,
>> yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you for your patience, everyone. >> Thank you. >> All right. Um, we are now going to go into to executive session. Mr. I mean Mr. Drill.
>> Yeah, there's going to be a motion to go into close executive session to discuss um professional appointments for the coming year which is an exception open public meetings act where you can go into closed session and we can say that
formal action may be taken after the closed session. We don't know, but it may. So, and the minutes from the closed session will not be distributed to the public until the board's after the board's reorganization meeting in
January when the all the professionals are formally appointed. >> Correct. And just so everyone knows, we're doing this now because we won't be here >> in November. Normally, you would do this in November. You're doing it in October because you won't you don't have a meeting in November. >> All right. So, may I have a motion? >> Well, that's that's my proposed motion.
Does someone want to say so moved? >> Go ahead. Mr. Ko has the motion to go into session. I will second that. >> We are in call. It's going to be roll.
>> Sorry. The motion was made by Mr. Ko. >> I seconded the motion and we're going to need a roll call for the motion to go into close session. >> Mr. P. Yes, >> Mr. Posa. >> Yes, >> Mr. Leazinski.
>> Yes, >> Miss Manu. >> Yes, >> Mr. Rabino. >> Yes, >> Mr. Seville. >> Yes, >> Mr. Tani. >> Yes, >> Miss Smith. >> Yes, >> Chairman Strangelo. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Okay, we're going into >> right now. Let's see. >> Do you want
I'm suggesting you can you can go home. I'd like to not yet. >> All right, we are >> back. >> I would like to make the motion to close close session and open open session.
>> Second. Thank you, Miss Roll. >> Mr. Crane? >> Yes. >> Mr. Quo? Yes, >> Mr. Leazinski. >> Yes, >> Miss Mandu. Yes, Mr. Rabino. >> Yes, >> Mr. Seville. >> Yes, >> Mr. Treaty. >> Yes, >> Miss Smith. >> Yes, >> Chairwoman.
>> Yes. >> Okay, so um >> can I can I take a stand? Yes. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> My understanding from the closed session >> is that the board concerned that its engineer
Bryce Hood left the employee of >> UTRS, >> UTRS, which had the contract with the board. And so the board wants to do one of two things. Either put together an RFP and invite UTRS
to give a proposal and invite others or because it's a professional services contract which is exempt under the law from having to go the route of public bidding just enter into negotiations with some engineering firms. You'll ask around for recommendations and again you
probably ask also to enter into those negotiations but the chair wants the authority from a formal board vote to go either of those directions because the board's not going to be meeting in November. So there
won't be an opportunity to do that until the before the end of the year and then you're going to be in trouble. That is that >> that's excellent summation of that. I really appreciate >> me too. Someone want to make a motion to
authorize the chair either to do >> second. So move wait. I move >> authorize the chair. >> Thank you for the authorization motion and it may have
>> Mr. Crane. >> Yes. >> Mr. >> Yes. >> Mr. Yes. >> Miss Manzu. >> Yes. >> Mr. Verbino. >> Yes. >> Mr. Seville. >> Yes. >> Mr. Techi. >> Yes. >> Miss Smith. >> Yes. >> Chairwoman M. >> Yes.
>> I want to ask our chair something in her ear. >> We're second. Okay, hold on one second. We're missing one regular >> right there. >> I knew that. for the motion. That motion carried.
>> Yes, it did. >> Okay. Um, is there are there any comments from members? >> I have a comment, chair. Um, assume that everybody's done the storm water training that we have every year.
Just just let you know that's completely outdated. probably 10 10 years old and doesn't doesn't meet the new doesn't refer to >> this is your opinion right >> yes my opinion um it doesn't refer to
the new regulation system as regulations goes back to 2004 regulations doesn't I didn't see any updated regulations >> Dave are you aware do they have a newer one or is this the only one >> I'm not aware but I can
That's a good point. >> There is some clips on the website. >> It's interesting the states making us take that but hasn't updated. >> Okay, that's helpful or not helpful the training. Um, so for the record, we are
canceling November 4th, 2025, election day, and because we have no business for that day as well. And we are also canceling for the record November 18th, 2025. And our next >> for the same for
>> for the reason that our staff will be attending some conference in Atlantic City and there's no no agenda items on that as well but that's okay
and then December 2nd 2025 is going to be our next regular meeting but I do appreciate everyone coming. Any comments from staff? Then I will entertain a motion to adjourn. >> Okay.
>> I'm going to second. >> I'm sorry, but we had Mr. All in favor. >> Opposed? Abain.