##VIDEO ID:TpyRim3u3QU## e e e e there we are there we are good evening everybody we're going to call to order tonight's uh Township Bernard of Bernard's uh Zoning Board of adjustment on the first item on the agenda is the flex so please stand if you can of the United States of America the rep stands na indivisible and justice for all in accordance with the requirement of the open public meetings law notice of this meeting of the board of adjustment of the township of Bernards was posted on the bulletin board in the reception hall of the municipal building Coler Lane Basking Ridge New Jersey it was also mailed to the Bernardsville News whipy New Jersey The Courier News Bridgewater newers Jersey and it was also filed with the Township Clerk all on January 9th of this year and was mailed electronically to all those people who had requested individual notice the following procedure has been adopted by the Bernards Township Zoning Board of adjustment there will be no new cases heard after 10 o'clock tonight and no new testimony heard after 10:30 tonight uh Miss keeper can you do the roll call please certainly um cherwell Engineers here Mr arwell yes uh M bman here Mr Krauss here miss pich here miss ptar here miss silver here uh Mr seski here Mr Quinn here SCH here and for the record Mr keeper is present uh Madam chair you have a quum you may proceed excellent thank you um next up on the agenda is the appointment for a vice chairperson for 2025 as most people know Mr T crey um took a position uh fulfilling uh a seat on the township uh committee which leaves open yes he did okay well know for those who did not know for those who did not know so that leaves open our um seat for vice chairperson so if I could ask for a motion for a nomination for a vice chairperson for for our committee Madam chairman I'd like to make a motion to nominate Lisa bman as Vice chairperson thank you Miss potar i' like to Second thank you Mr CS Miss keeper all right we do this as a voice there any other nominations all right close the nominations close the nominations I do a roll call just to be yeah um Dr arwal yes Miss Balman yes sure Mr do I have to say it m pich yes M poar yes M Sil yes uh chairwoman Jers yes thank you congratulations thanks for doing that thank for doing that for us um next on the agenda is the approval of minutes uh first one up is 6a which is the November 14 2024 I think everyone got a copy in advance if there's any comments or edits on that otherwise a motion to approve as drafted Madam chair it is just you and Mr CR okay call I will motion and I will second to approve as drafted no changes okay um Mr K yes Engineers yes thank you that one was easy um the second one is the approval of minutes from our December 4th regular session meeting um also uh those minutes were circulated in in advance if there's any comments or or edits um otherwise a motion to approve as drafted I'll make a motion to approve as drafted thank you Miss poar I'll second thank you Miss pal now in this case um Madam you are Miss Balman Mr Krauss and Miss poar are eligible all in favor I opposed and those that I mentioned are abstaining I just I just wanted to check I was here for part of that meeting am I okay to approve the minutes proba I didn't say anything either way I so I abstain thank you okay next on the agenda is the approval of resolutions the first one is the Caputo resolution zb2 4017 that was also circulated in advance of today's meeting are there any comments uh or edits on that or motions and Madam chair on this one you are eligible see um Miss Balman Mr Krauss Miss Pichi I make a motion to approve the minut pardon me approv resolution as drafted thank you Mr I'll second thank you Mr CR Miss Balman yes Mr kuss yes Miss Pichi yes chairwoman Jers yes thank you excellent thank you the next one is from our December meeting which is Healey zb2 4021 I think I am abstaining from that one yes um and we have Miss Balman Mr Krauss and uh Miss poar who are eligible I'll make a motion to resolution is drafted thank you Miss Paul second thank you Miss Balman Miss Balman yes Mr Krauss yes parar yes thank you thank you the next one was also from our December meeting which was the hessle application zb2 4 z uh Z two Z okay and the same three same group for that one I have a quick question on that one yes um in this particular one the applicant the applicant had mentioned that they would remove the shed um to meet the impervious coverage number that we had agreed upon there's a language in the resolution that covers whether they keep the shed or whether they remove the shed so language wise we're covered either way um but because they specified the shed at the meeting does the board care if they were to keep or remove I guess the question is was when you voted to approve the application was it condition upon that shed specifically being removed or just that the shed could be one of the things that would be removed I think I actually that up discussion cover right that's typically what we do but because they had mentioned it and there was language both ways I just figured I'd bring it up they definitely got to least move yeah okay Mr seski is that sufficiently covered in oh so that's comment or I'm sorry condition number five on page 15 if you want to refer to that uh it states the applicant shall revise the submitted plans to show a proposed lot coverage ratio not exceeding 23.9 5% which may be accomplished by removing existing Stepping Stones removing the existing rear yard shed and we removing other existing or proposed impervious surfaces from the property so pretty wide net to and it's sufficiently covered in the resolution that if they don't remove the shed they have to move it yes so on page 14 I believe that references Dave's commment is reference there yeah so item number five should the applicant not fully remove the existing Shed from the property uh the shed shall be relocated thank you m bman is there any motion so if everybody's okay with it then I would make a motion to approve as drafted I'll second thank you Miss poar Mr Krauss I mean Miss Balman and Mr Krauss all righty um M Balman yes yes mrar yes yes okay thank you next is 7D the Brady application also from December zb2 4015 five any comments or edits on this resolution or a motion to approve as drafted same three or eligible same same appr I'll make a motion to approve as drafted I'll second it thank you miss bman and miss coar m yes Mr yes yes okay next on the agenda is the approval of resolutions for Signature acquisition ZB 22028 I think uh m Mr Krauss and me it was circulated in advance thank God it was like 100 Pages yeah we needed some we needed some there you go there you go so um do you want to make a motion make a motion approve as drafted okay I will second um I will second that uh Mr CR yes Engineers yes I'd like to thank Mr seski and his team did a great job that that was a lot of work I know yeah that the resolution it was a lot holy cow it was almost 100 Pages 92 yeah 92 um next uh on the agenda is the approval of resolution 7f which was the Grim Shaw Ox uh resolution zb2 4022 I think that was from January so I think you have a different group right and I'm I believe everybody is eligible with the exception of Miss Sil we had people available and she was our alternate great thank you so this was circulated in advance if there's any comments uh or edits Now's the Time to voice them otherwise uh we'd like a motion to approve this drafted Madam chair I'll make a motion to approve as drafted thank you m b second thank you Mr CR let's see uh Dr arwell yes M Balman yes CR yes Miss Puchi yes M poar yes uh chairwoman Jers yes thank you thank you okay now that that works out of the way um we're going to move on to um a completeness in public hearing 8A we're going to welcome back uh the grber application which was carried from our January 8th meeting mad chair while applicants council is approaching I'll just point out for the record um Board continu St jurisdiction uh this was good in the first place we carried it to uh January 8th by voice announcement and then we carried it again to this evening by voice announcement so the board still has jurisdiction here in decide the case in my legal opinion thank you and and I think um Mr zelli we have had Miss Silva and Miss U Mr agal uh watch the videos and Miss oh for one of them that's right so I think we're in a position to yeah that's correct mam chair in my legal opinion I I they did certify to me that they reviewed the table so I believe we have a fully qualified seven member board to act on this application even excellent and I think Mr Z you gave us um some amended language I did and I have hard copies of that for each of you pass those out is this exactly the same that we received this exactly what was this is what was emailed today okay and this is what we have S right this is what we have okay does everybody have this from today if you don't we'll take another copy otherwise Mr we just mark this as an exhibit just to be I think this would this be exhibit 81 I have I don't think we have any exhibit and just for clarification this is amended language on the deed restriction is that right Mr zeli exhibit a one amended deed restriction language dated uh today okay it's February 5th 2025 are you marking the red line and the clean separately or just as one you will do oh you oh you gave us two yeah oh my um okay so the red line will be exhibit A1 Red Line perfect Red Line amended D restriction language and then uh exhibit A2 will be the clean one I think we have A1 already from the first version of this oh was that an ex I think it was we yeah that would make sense if we would have I don't remember but that makes sense all right so red line will be A2 and then A3 right sounds good thanks thank you Dave thanks good good catch appreciate that want to take us through that amended language I can do that or so I'll I'll refer to A2 hopefully the red lining is not confusing uh the changes were made in accordance with comments that were made at the last hearing uh also tried to simplify it as much as possible which lawyers say all the time and we know that's alive but we try our best so uh first number paragraph is unchanged um basically just confirming that uh this apartment that's at the subject of this application would be the only apartment on the property would not be in addition to for instance an inner house apartment that would otherwise be permitted under the uh zoning ordinance uh number two uh really just modified in accordance with Mr Sly suggest at the last meeting uh really just to simplify that paragraph uh number three changes pursuant to comments made by the board uh just addressing the parking and really again just clarifying uh the uh the status of the parking on the property number four uh except for changing from home to house which is a typographical change uh at the end as you know presently the property is owned by a Family Trust uh and I had listed out several different possible legal entities I just changed it just to make it or a legal entity uh the same concept being though that the principles would have to uh uh be people only controlling interest in those legal entities and then on to the second page number five I think there was some concern that 180 days was an awfully long period of time uh that this use might not be allowed I just shortened it to 90 days uh the thought of that being if there were going to be a change in ownership but one that would still be able to use this um variant so to speak uh I thought 90 days would be necessary just for that change in ownership to take place um typically it's a 2 to three month closing period these days anything shorter than that could get tripped up by a longer closing period uh number six not changed at all number seven was taken out all together uh and then number eight was just a change of numbering so I'm happy to recap if anybody would like me to and if anyone thinks they've heard enough of me I'm happy to be quiet and I know there's a bunch of people after me tonight Mr Z want do we maybe want to confirm which uh conditions of section 21-1 12.3 we we deviating from absolutely so condition number one uh which is that the apartment in question has to be inside the physical home obviously we don't have that here we have what's typically called a Carriage House apartment or apartment above a detach garage uh and then condition number six uh dealing with the familiar relationship uh between the occupants of the apartment and the occupants of the main home uh typically the concept is that there's a relationship between those in the apartment and the people living in the main home in this case it's a deviation we have a familiar relationship between the person living in the apartment namely the owner's son and the owner but the owners do not live in the home it's a separate unrelated tenant in the home so those are the two conditions uh making this a D3 I also I might be getting a little too technical I noted um condition number two no more than 25% of the floor area the principal building that be used for the apartment and that is true and one of our conditions for the uh deed restriction number two uh takes care of that that one uh four you're good with five because I believe off top of my head I think it's 19 point something we came up with so it's already below 25 right um five was the FHA requirement but I think we kind of came to the understanding that that's M at this point because the FHA doesn't apply correct and that's fine that obviously there's no con ruction going on here so whatever's there is there in that sense and there just to recap there were variances granted historically for this particular apartment so it's not like it was built under the radar or something like that it was built with knowledge at least ultimately long before my clients own the property then condition number seven I think you're that's when when it becomes no longer occupied I think you anything from that to for 90 days does condition number seven have I don't know if it has one unless it just says period I think it just says at such time it say as soon as yeah as soon as the as the relationship ends and terminates but then what you're suggesting with the de restriction is to give that the 90day window so I think that's still a deviation I I I don't object to that interpretation I don't think we've even discussed it before but that's no problem yeah then number eight to the extent that this would be kind of a different process I I think that you're really mostly complying with that but it's to the extent that it's not the exact same you know conditional use requirements of the ordinance you know you're not certifying that you can comply with the conditional use requirements certifying that you comply with with the requirements disapproval right exactly so that's at least to an extent of deviation I I have no objection to amending or if there's a resolution granting to include it that way that's fine both of those is fine any resolution accurately capes and then as far as conditions go I know obviously all this deed restriction stuff would apply um you guys would be comping with all building codes just go back to my notes I think there might have been one or two other conditions might captured by the restrictions yeah I I think we've captured everything that there is oh yeah I see that was that needed even though it's already in existence oh okay no I don't recall that but no objection that's fine it was a comment in my oh so that'd be covered by the standard we we agree your memo that's fine yeah okay yeah I don't think Mr Quinn had any Com or conditions in his memo so okay I think that's that's really about it I just a couple minor questions pleas yes please number four it says occupant and then the third line together with their respective spouses and children I think that should say spouse or child since only two people are allowed to be in the building can can I jump on your question are you saying that two people can be there per our ordinance as far as Apartments go or per the deed restriction per the deed restriction right so I have an issue with there being two per two people allowed in the apartment we went from one person in a non-conforming use um not really belonging there to now two people being allowed there so I would prefer to strike that all together does it does the ordinance actually limit it to one person no I think Miss Bowman's point is that our current situation obviously giving rise to this application involves one person who's unmarried um I have a question about the last point in here um where it says the five calendar years um are we saying that in in that section that no one can occupy the apartment after five years time or just that this non-conforming use of the apartment can't exist after five years so the apartment itself is non-conforming so the answer is yes to either way so yeah so after five years it would not be able to be used as an apartment have to be converted to storage or Workshop or something other than a dwelling unit unless someone was to come in and get another approval of course right the word calendar years does that mean anything different in this case years no it's just lawyer speak no problem can we also never mind I'll leave that yeah I was going to say I mean is anyone else a little uncomfortable that being five years seems long so I was not in the first hearing and I went through the recording and everything and I think U there was some mention of two years that two years will be long enough my only concern is that you know this paragraph five years and it actually allows you that after five years you come back and again request approval and what we are putting here actually is potentially Perpetual use of this apartment in this way which is which really sets a bad example for the township for somebody else that you know uh I understand it's a hardship but hardship should not continue for five years one year I think maximum one year is a long enough time for somebody to find you know deal with the hardship and we comply with the and I don't think there's a hardship I think someone bought a house okay that's another concern that when the house was purchased and there was some kind of disclosure that they don't know about the thing that what is the whether it's allowed or not then I think uh the attorneys involved should have done their due diligence you know come to the town that you know hey this is what is this do we need to get an approval uh what is the story here so that part was not there but I think yes you know we're okay with the hardship but 5 years is too long I think one year is good enough we should not make this a Perpetual thing that you know it will stay forever or it comes back or even the language saying that U you know per permitted of the future action the longest should be that we are giving you this approval for one year after one year period this is done what does everyone think about the the time frame I'm not tied to the the the one but I I think five is too too long in my opinion I don't dise and the applicant was informed that the real estate transaction Mr Z right the prior owner did say that there was a conditional use on this no the the disclosure was the disclosure simply that they were not going to make any representations as to the legality of the apartment when I video I heard the homeowner say that he was informed by a code official but he didn't say what code official and why that code official was alerted I think that was the tax official but was after the fact that that that's why we're here because and I know offici the tax official advised Miss karatz and then Sorry video was very difficult but if the seller is saying that there's no representation that's ground enough for the buyer to do the do their own diligence because there's apartment behind the building that's not very common to see if they are really permitted or there's some other story with that which will cause the heart because right now right now the way I see it is didn't a visit for an assessment which is rented and this is uh you're still using I mean man house the apartment should have gone with the main house okay so Mr I think heard some feedback from the board is there any other F stipulations you want to offer um without having to go out into the hallway and take some additional time uh I I I have some leeway on that only because we discussed it at the first meeting um second yeah first meeting uh so I know I have authority to get down to three I don't have Authority for under that so okay but if the board could the board could live with three I think we'd be right there's also a question from Miss Balman about the number of people in the uh apartment do you want to apply on that suggestion or do you want to leave it as is the reason we had it for number two was simply so if he should be involved in a serious relationship and have somebody move in with him we didn't want to preclude that uh I could argue that that sort of goes against some of the or is consistent with case law of preserv and not interfering with personal relationships and whatnot if it's something the board is very concerned about it's probably not the end of the world but okay we did want to make sure it wasn't going to turn to a family or something like that that's why we left it to just two are there additional questions for Mr zi so so I would ask like how long before something becomes um to the point where you know it could be used in case law against us and say well it's been existing for so long now that's not thing can't the variance keeps that from happening thing it's conditioned on a threee yeah termination period And I think the number six saying annual certification you know if you don't get more than one year then the point is that cloud is if it were only one year that would be true right so I I kind of feel like this is going against the intent of our master plan okay are there any other questions before we okay I want to kind of separate separate like voting delation are there any other questions for Mr at this time are there any questions from the public based upon the new testimony that we've heard tonight on this case not Tes representations okay I'm sorry representations I think Mr Zoes not a lawyer okay um okay Mr zeli anything else from us uh no I think I actually went over the um planning aspects of it at the end of the last meeting uh so just very quickly I'd point out that this is a D3 not a D1 uh so all we need to prove is that the uh site can accommodate any harms that might be envisioned by the conditions having been set uh and that we would not uh violate those harms so to speak by having these uh variances to the conditional use uh granted as you know uh this apartment has in fact been used for many years albeit pursuant to a specific uh prior variance uh there's been no evidence no testimony no neighbors uh complaining of any problems arising from it uh so I think the property's history in and of itself shows that the site can accommodate it uh so we believe we satisfied the positive Criterion uh and again the negative criteria there's really there's been no problem there's been no detriment uh and given the fact that you would be limiting it uh by time uh that makes it even unlikely less likely that there would be such a problem so I think we've satisfied both the positive and negative for a D3 uh we thank you for your time three times now and appreciate a positive vote all right thank you Mr s um is there anyone from the public who wants to make a comment on this application mrin T Stein Riverside Drive thank you very much do you swear affirm the testimony about the truth the whole truth nothing the truth yes um usually the board is very tough on the part you know garages and the concerns of them being furnished and becoming apartments and I know there was lying language in the last meeting talking about only cars are going to be parked in the garage the two-car garage I think it was it is so I'd like to see some type of language saying that no improvements can be done underneath there as no bathrooms no kitchens no spare room so that one day someone decides they close the doors and then all of a sudden it becomes another house in there and I like to make sure that's said not just you know leave all doesn't have storage of boxes because those boxes turn into Apartments thank you very much thank you very much for your comment any other comments on this application okay Mr Z over to us is that right uh yeah I'll just briefly address that I think that is covered at least implicitly by number three in the deed restriction but if the board sh that concern I would have no problem with any language either in the resolution Andor the deed restriction that the uh garage cannot be used for anything other than garage space okay and maybe also number two in in terms of the floor area of the apartment would not be increased uh correct yeah that's true thank you any other comments on this application some up what we're looking for here guess it's a D3 that's correct Madam chair um yes so we're looking at a D3 use VAR here Mr Z kind enough to go through the various points from which they're deviating from section 21-1 12.3 of the ordinance which pertains to accessory Apartments um they're deviating from condition one the number of Apartments within a single family residents shall be limited to one and shall be located within the principal dwelling uh the accessory apartment is situated within the detach garage on the second floor not within the principal dwelling so that's the first one they're deviating from uh the other condition the next condition do you want to go through all these okay uh the second condition is that is that not more than 25% of the floor area of the principal building that be used for the apartment um proposing to deviate from this condition to the extent required due to the fact that the apartment had issue isn't within the principal building and they've offered that um the floor area of that apartment won't be increased or it won't be occupied by more than I think one person was that this it was raised I don't know what the end result is we'll come back to that that's we'll come back um condition three they're complying with that's that the uh the applicant shall demonstrate that adequate off street parking is available for the combination of the principal residential use and the apartment and they' offered a deed restriction to ensure that uh adequate parking will continue to exist uh condition number four the exterior appearance of the principal structure shall not be substantially changed or I'm sorry altered in its appearance as a single family start that the exterior appearance of the principal structure shall not be substantially altered appearance as a single family residents changed they're not proposing any changes to the uh principal drawing at all here uh condition five that's the minimum size of the department shall conform to FHA minimum unit size requirements by veteran count FHA doesn't apply anymore but they did offer a condition that they would comply with all applicable building codes so that kind of covers the intent of that uh six the occupants of the department shall be limited to the mother father son daughter brother sister grandparent Andor grandchild together with their respective spouses and children of one of the principal occupants of the single family residents the issue here is that the occupant of this department would be um the son of the of the the part's having an ownership interest in or the controlling interest in the trust that owns the property it's a little somewhat complicated there and they offered a deed restriction to ensure that that would be uh that any anyone occupying the apartment would have to be related to somebody either who's an occupate of the principal dwelling or somebody holding A50 or greater ownership interest in the property or an individual personally holding a controlling interest in a trust or legal entity owning the property right condition seven condition requires that at such time as the apartment becomes unoccupied or at such time as the occupants of the department do not or no longer bear the requisite relationship by BL or marriage to a principal occupant of the single family residents pursuant to another section of the ordinance the conditional use approval shall terminate in the event that ship of the premises changes there should be a reable presumption that such requisite relationship no longer exists and this is where they uh they're asking for an extension of 90 days upon the of that uh that relationship terminating and then finally uh condition number eight the owner of the premises which has been granted approval for such conditional use shall certify annually on a form provided by the zoning official that the conditions for the conditional use are still being satisfied obviously here they're not complying with conditional use requirements so they're ex deviating that deviating that to the extent necessary for this approval if this is be approved um but they would still be certifying annually to the zoning official that they're complying with every condition of whatever resolution were to be adopted if the board were to act favorably on the application um as far as conditions go there's only I think one condition noted Mr SCH that still applicable here outside of deed restriction that's that the applicant will SE or that the application will be subject to the review and approval of the Bernard Township Authority and additional conditions um indicated that they'd be comping with all building codes um and uh to the extent it might be necessary not already covered the first floor of the garage would continue to be used as a garage and would be used as part of the apartment would it be building codes as of the data construction though since we're not constructing anything now whatever okay and that is it thank you sorry this a little long a little longer than I thought yeah sorry lot of all right thank you I know we heard some comments from board members as we were going along here um does anyone want to add some additional thoughts as we debate this one um I was just repeat that I would not be a yes unless the time restriction was lower yeah um than the five I think twoe maximum in my opinion but I mean I'm open to discussion with the other members would point out they have can get all for three years they yeah okay okay I mean just generally I think that the property isn't necessarily suitable for its purpose even if it was used for that purpose for a period of time for a family member to live in a anart you know if you look at the history of the property it was we wanted to do something we did it then we came back and got approval oh we we did something we dug you know we put electrical in we put Plumbing in that it wasn't ever really appr initially it was we did this let's come back to approval now we're going through the same routine again with the same property that was never really approved for the purpose that they're trying to get now in the second and third try so I looked at the property it's a very long property I don't think it's suitable for parking we're multiple we're almost creating a multiple family instance here on a very small lot the very small driveway and very small parking in the back saying let's make sure that they do this this and this and this and this and make sure that we watch it I drove by this this house actually the last I didn't know where it was before this application and I drive by twice a day and I watch it just to see what's happening on the property do I think right now that there's excessive use probably not could there be I think there could be and I think two or three cars sitting in that driveway and that back lot and not using the um the garage for its purpose like we typically could create a hard hardship for the neighbors and an issue for just the community of that neighborhood um because it's a very um tight area it's a road that gets used very frequently and I I just I'm not for this application in its use um I think it varies from the intent of the ordinance to have a family member live in an apartment in a single know a in a large property or in a home um while they're we've seen other applications like this while they're U elderly parents that might then vacate the property when they move into a sister living um we've had some applications like that we've had some other applications where people asked for usage after they did the same thing and we I think we've denied it actually where they bought the property thought they could use as apartment um and we denied that application for that purpose too so I think this is even a little bit farther where it's it's someone buying a property renting out one as an investment letting a family member to live there and they're not connected enough um compared to what the ordinance is stated um so we're verying very far from what the ordinances not just a little bit in my opinion thank you Mr CR than absolutely agre just going to say in my opinion this is almost a kin to creating a two family house when people are in two different bu are not on the same property and to my understanding in this town two family houses are Grand are grandfathered in until they are changed into a single family house and they can never go back um I I just don't like the idea of of starting the idea that you can start creating two family houses again in this town and that's I I think it sets a bad precedent yeah I I think that Mr Krauss stated my concerns very uh very well thank you Mr Krauss I do I've had I've been troubled by this application since the beginning um I did I really when it has become clear that it is it was merely an investment property that the um there was no relation of the occupants to they have a relationship to insury but that doesn't make any difference was still investment properties so I have had a problem with this application so I am with Mr Krauss that I am concerned about approv I mean I think if the state changes the rules we don't have any say in this matter Poss we can still put some restrictions on safety of the property and and you know driveway space and parking space which are normal in any property um but that hasn't come yet so I don't think we should create another two family instance just because it was before that's all parking more than one car like in the yard or whatever doesn't that compact the surface of the soil and create lock coverage just by the fact that you're doing this am I wrong about that you have said this before so you yeah they' have to park the driveway drive you can par in the driveway just you can never you know how do you back up into a busy so I don't normally interject but there's a parking area between the buildings yeah oh I know okay so so part of my concern too with like more than one person living there I I certainly want wouldn't want to interfere with someone getting into a relationship my thought would be get into a relationship and need move out move into a place would be my hope but if you added another car if the person who lives in the house if that Dynamic changed and they needed another car you're you're getting into a situation as people are growing and families are growing that this the site no longer accommodates it I do think that right now it's probably working however in my opinion it goes against the intent of the master plan um and that's a level of the criteria that I can't justify um could it create some detriment to the public good it could if it were to become something more than it is so if we were to add two people if it we five years down the road I I just I just think that um it's going against the intent of the master plan and therefore I want to be able to give him time to move out um to make a plan and go but as it stands right now I I can't see three years so um from from my standpoint I appreciate everybody's comments um I I also uh can't get cuffed them while approving or granting um the variances requested here I I do think it impairs the intent of the of the master plan I think the language is very specific um around what is allowed and what isn't allowed uh so I do think it goes against that um the issue I have is if if I'm a no on the application I I find it challenging to be yes for some period of time um I uh will trust in the town services and the way they deal with that I I I assume Mr Sly doesn't drive from here to the property to to um make someone leave I think you know that there's already months spilled in so I am comfortable trusting whatever the normal process is on that for me I want to vote uh yes or no on the application without any um time frame that that's my own personal view are there other comments uh or are does someone like to make a motion you know there's a couple of different views here and that's that's fine does someone feel comfortable making a motion on this application I'm happy okay um so from my standpoint um I would make a motion and ask our um attorney to draft uh a resolution denying the variances asked here it's a D3 variance um you know there's positive and negative uh criteria to be honest I couldn't come up with significant positive uh benefits uh to the neighborhood or uh or the community and there clearly I thought was um an impairment to the intent and purpose of our master plan um and therefore uh I am not comfortable this it's something that's clearly not allowed in our ordinance and uh I didn't think that this is an exceptional situation uh that warranted uh going against that so my motion would be to deny that application I'll second M Keir Dr yes are there any other motion no just to be clear a yes A yes is is to deny yeah just to be clear just so everybody know okay I'm sorry yes wait hang up M Miss keeper can you start again I didn't miss Bowman yes Mr Krauss yes Miss Pichi yes Miss poar yes Miss silver yes chairwoman Jers yes thank you Mrs ell thank you all very much have a wonderful evening to hear but uh what time is it in California have a great night okay next up um on the the agenda is the completeness and public hearing for schaer uh which is zb2 4004 is that who we have here yes real quick Madam chair I'll just point out for the record I had an opportunity to review the applicate notice for this evening I deem it to be content seem to be sufficient in terms of both its content time winess and service you think I got the script right at this point um was sent to owners of property with the Ft of the subject property on January 18th and published in the burville news on January 16th the board is jurisdiction the case in my legal opinion thank you good evening how are you one I you swear everybody in you you guys the applicants yes need to you guys testify professionals all you swear the testimony about to the truth the whole truth the truth yes okay great good evening Katherine Mueller from the company of now Mueller engineering congratulations yeah 30 years in business this year so new business cards yeah yeah unfortunately I didn't stock my pockets um uh still Le same legal entity um as as Paige meller um so I'm a professional engineer in the state of New Jersey owner of Mueller Engineering in Warren Township and my license is in good standing so we're here for the application of block 293 lot 15 just want real quick AC oh I'm sorry yes M thank you thank you yeah thank you uh so we're here for a single family lot I have the schafers here and they're going to introduce their application first and then I'll go through the plans for you so I'm going to turn it over to them so I take it Jared and Rebecca shaer yes Sher yes Sher okay you guys both reside at 17 Woodstone Road Basin Bridge yes okay tell us hi so yes I'm Jared this is my wife Rebecca we reside at 17 Woodstone road we moved in um in April of 2022 so we've been there approximately three years now we have a two-year-old little boy um we are expecting another child in a couple of months thank you and we are here seeking a variance in connection with a paper patio we are looking to install in our backyard um currently we have a raised deck as well as a gravel area in our backyard um we're looking to replace that deck and the gravel area with one large level PA patio primarily for to have a large level space for our children to play also for entertaining purposes um an eating area um an area to play u potentially an area for a fire pit down the the road um as well as looking to extend the current side walkway to the backyard on the south side of the property so that it connects to the the paper patio in the back to provide an easy means of access from the front inside of the house to the back um so that yeah that's the purpose of the the variant just to install install the paper patio I hi I'm Rebecca schner I would just add that the reason that we're wanting to replace this is the wood deck that's existing there is starting to fall apart and rot and excuse me so it's it's also a bit of a safety concern that we have for our toddler and then the our you know seem to be new child as well the grav area there when you bought yes that's correct the gravel area was there and there is a step from the wood deck to the gravel area so we want to again make that one flat level surface for for safety for our young children as well okay the pictures that we're looking at is that essentially how the back of the house looked when you bought the property have you done any work that's correct no we have not changed anything since we've bought the property these photographs um could you guys tell us who took them and when um I took the photographs and they would you have a copy of these photographs in front of you not in front of me you want to take them yeah that and then maybe just you can walk through them you mentioned a couple of the walkways just to make sure we know exactly what you're saying you can them in order probably okay so the first photo this is so this is taken from standing right behind the house so this is looking out into our rear neighbors property beyond the fence that you see there the second photo this is the south side of the property this doorway here goes into the garage this is the existing walkway from the driveway to that side door we're looking to extend this walkway along the south side of the house and then around the back connecting to the new paper patio see the third photo here is taken from kind of the end of the gravel area so there's a a currently a stone wall that acts as kind of a retaining wall at the end of that gravel area so this is taken from that spot looking at the back of the house the next photo these I'm sorry so the next photo here these are the current um stairs leading into our back door which enters into the kitchen and you can see some of the where it's already starting to deteriorate and rot this photo here is also the back of the house this uh room here this is our family room um this area so you can see this is the south side of the house over here so this is where I referred to before we'll have the walkway extend along the south side of the house and then our proposal is to add a PA patio in this area as well behind what is the living um the family room rather yes and uh and keeping the tree so we're not proposing to remove any of the existing trees that are on the property right all existing trees all existing bushes will remain so even this tree right here from yeah yes we would put the the patio around the yeah so no we're not we're not proposing to remove any of the of the trees this is this picture this is another photo of the back of the house um again these trees are remaining this is the the retaining wall the current retaining wall that I mentioned before so that's the end of the gravel area so and you can see the step as well so there are multiple Steps From the raise Deck Down to the gravel area there's also a step on the north side of the deck down to the grass yes and the trees will stay the trees will stay yes there's four Evergreens there and those will remain as well yes and um is this how it looks now yes yes there's a probably just a little bit more um rot in some of the places because we those were taken last year and with the but the deck is still there running away and Sh the ground area that's correct when were you taking these photos these would have been taken um before our application was submitted originally in I believe January of 2024 so yeah the the pictures I believe were taken in sometime in 2023 okay yes yes there are actually multiple there three large tree yes that's multiple but they are all going to remain yes that's correct okay [Music] and it seems that you're over on coverage already but you're saying you didn't do any of that work that's correct that was existing when we purchase the home okay can iest is most of the patio going I'll present the pl I just wanted to let them the pictures are great thank you for having real pictures great did you talk to any of your neighbors about the application um we submitted the certified letters to the neighbors we had not heard any uh anybody voice any concerns to you no okay so there's no more questions for the applicant they're still here to answer questions if need be I just have one quick question has work begun no there's some material in the driveway but no work has been done okay they got a little uh we they got a little excited over the over the patio and um as you've heard this is uh they got deemed incomplete from the records I have in January of 2024 so then we were brought on time to do the survey time to do the plans time to get scheduled and all that so here we are in 2025 we did a uh full survey of the lot but on the cover sheet here I have the existing conditions with lot 15 in the middle uh rectangular lot it's UND sized at 19,562 in the R6 Zone which requires um 32,000 so we're at44 449 Acres 175 so it's it's quite under sized the only thing I um single family uh neighborhood the house I have right now North up the house to the South which is where we will be expanding some of the living area I just want to explain the orientation of their property their driveway AB buts our property they have a attached garage with a driveway apron and they have a detached garage um that's front loaded out to the street so where I you can see I'm circling here is where some new patio is going to be installed from the house to the retaining walls where the existing deck and gravel's installed and also as part of the application we're asking for the variance for the existing shed to remain on the right side of the lot um it abuts the side of their detach garage it's right behind it uh it's been there for a long time I don't know if it showed up in the pictures uh it's got some moss on the top it's been there historically it was there when the Shaffers bought the property so we're just going to ask for that really for the the sidey yard setback for the existing shed to remain I'll move on to sheet two and explain the proposed improvements uh with a picture in front of us just to explain what you've already heard there's an existing paver or it's i p or con concrete walkway that goes to the side door into the garage it's lawn from there to the rear yard so we're proposing as part of the project to connect that with Hardscape so a visitor from the whether they park in the driveway or on the street can actually walk to the backyard um and not through the lawn we have additional patio behind their living room here and then the larger patio uh this is over what was the existing deck you can see that outlined behind and from the photos you can see that from the edge of the deck to this wall was all gravel in the professional review letters there was some discrepancy about coverage the gravel the survey the original application without the benefit of a toppo survey um so I went through the numbers and the existing coverage that I note on our plans is 3726 Square ft that does not include the deck and that does not include the gravel area so even by taking those areas out they're still over on coverage um including those areas the coverage um goes up to 416 and then still excludes the deck um the easy number that I was looking at tonight if you took the existing improvements that are there and Bernards has a very unique ordinance to exclude decks and you look at their usable area with the deck and the gravel included this project increases their usable area by 565 Square ft so a small per percentage of their lot area it's a it's due to the zoning that a deck doesn't count and also my numbers didn't include the gravel which is not a road surface is impervious but gravel counts as coverage for your zoning so we did concentrate the extended patio over the existing conditions we there would be a walkway that we would desire to that area and this area is 12T wide that allows for some storage along the house and also to get get by and possibly put a picnic table for the kids over in that area it's by the Evergreens it's shaded um so that's the extent of the improvements from a zoning and coverage standpoint as we increase the improvements we need to provide storm water management we're increasing them what we've noted um 1518 uh from what's existing that excludes the gravel you know you there's a lot of numbers here pluses and minuses um so we do exceed the th000 squ foot increase so we've provided the storm water management we have a arch system in the back we're familiar with the burnard soils they're not always the best um sometimes you get lucky but not that often so these are fairly shallow U I have it detail on the plan they're shallow and they're also easily uh transportable to the back because it's pretty tight on the side they could bring in a small machine and actually two people could carry these plastic arches to the back the ones that we picked are a total of 28 in high so 2 feet high it's not a big system that's why we have a nice size footprint um we did only account for the storage underneath the Overflow uh which was one of the comments in the engineering review letter and we will update the void ratio in the stone Bernards is different than most towns AT3 or 33 and we Ed point4 so we will update that we sized this system for the increasing coverage that we are netting out at 1518 Square fet so this does not only cover new impervious over what's lawn but I hadn't accounted for the graph gravel so I'm also providing for the change from gravel which is considered impervious to papers so if we included the gravel I would have 390 Square ft less to design for so since we're here for a variance we included that um for storm water mitigation to put a little extra storage in the system so to say s to speak and we looked at the house right now the down BS go to the ground there's Splash blocks the ones on the North side drain Overland to the back and there's one on the right side that has a leader and drains also to the back so we are proposing those to be picked up and the area of roof in that we're collecting is greater than that, 1500 square ft um so we're increasing it by my numbers not in clouding the the gravel by 1518 and collecting 1540 so it's not that we're designing it for this size and not collecting it um so that's that's how we became did the uh the drainage design we had worked with the property owner on a number of options for the patio and due to the elevations of the deck they have a higher deck Landing they have a lower deck landing and then the gravel's even lower and they have a a wall in the back and we lifted it up and you recall we dropped it down and we had two different levels and I think where we ended up here it's all one level for the P patios pitch to the back we're maintaining the existing drainage patterns um and then they'll just have an extra step step or two uh coming off the house so there is a impervious coverage variance if the lot area was complying with the Zone we would be under the 18% for what we're proposing um Hardscape is preferred to decks um in a lot of different scenarios this is that grade so their deck was slightly off off the ground perhaps they put that in to not have the variance uh it's a little loophole in Bernards I've used myself in designs but it doesn't last that close to the the ground that long so rather than replace that and have the same concerns and the same elevation problems they're going to be doing everything in Hardscape or they hope to do everything in Hardscape um so that's the gist of the uh the application uh if you have any questions I'm happy to answer them I think you you said as the right now off the roof are they going ground no they're going Overland yeah they just discharge the splash blocks yep not Chang we're going to we're going to pipe them into the into the back yep I have going up just going into the grass I'll call it yeah right now it's just running down the sides um we have the roof leaders which will be installed and and brought to the back is the the hardcap or the new stone is it pitched in any way or is it just is it completely flat no it's it's graded away from the house yeah just slightly graded so it don't correct water run off the edge of the TR there correct and then it'll that'll actually go Overland so it's quotee disconnected um it's not going directly to the street like a driveway would and everything is pitched to their backyard correct this is the low point of the property in the back right corner m m did you consider it all in your designs since this is uh quite a bit of the impov this coverage over the ordinance any way uh did you think of ways that you could narrow the gap between what was allow what's allowed and what this proposal is I know you said you toyed around with a lot of different designs that was mostly elevation designs um so again if you look at what the deck is and the gravel area we're netting out of uh 500 and change square foot increase for the living space so you know I always review it for sensibility and I think when you take a walkway across the back and we widened it to 12 ft that would be um I think that's usable area you have it along the back of their house here for storage because you usually put your grill and your kids bin and the toys and everything along the house on this side if you came down the stairs it would be right in front of you so this allows not only a little bit of storage area but some some walkway and flat area as well so they they use all the area and now they have another child so I didn't want to decrease the area and ask for the variance fire future fire pit was mentioned that would be on that hardcap yes yes they wouldn't have gra gravel counts so you couldn't put it out in the yard do you have any lighting um proposed in the pl uh I don't have any lighting but we agree to if there is any lighting out there it all be lowlevel Landscaping facing down to have they actually have a very nice grass backyard now um with a playet I believe yes we do the playet not in the pictures we purchas that after but yes there is place it's right kind of in the middle of the backyard it's the the standard plastic kind of swing set also while you have uh workers that are digging for the recharge system um could the shed be moved um if you look at the it's not in the photos I I had a one of my employees go out and take photos of it it doesn't look like it's going to handle a move um is it in the first picture the shed what am I looking at in the left corner of that first picture was yeah it was yeah no it doesn't show up in any of these what is in that first picture behind the trees Zoom oh it's like a little Barn that's the neighbor yeah that's like a barn I is what it look like okay yes yeah you can't see the the shed is Behind These Evergreens okay and it's it's pretty well vegetated all the way around and again neighbors can't see it either H the neighbors can't see it either no it it kind of aligns with their um detached garage it's just off the back corner of their DEC attached garage so it's certainly not visible from their home and then there's a fence and there's some plantings and Landscaping along there as wellc that there is some intent to put a little bit of planting to the side and I'll let the the applicants talk to that just to augment around those four Evergreens so the lot to the right has the B me it's a garage they won't look in their backyard from the other side it's is it Evergreens or is it just I can't we don't have a picture of that right this side it it there's vegetation which actually probably takes up half of that I looked at the at that side of the house as well they have their equipment here and then there's a drainage path from there down spouts and then there's more vegetation along that side but we are not expanding the project in that direction that's why I didn't focus on that direction you can see we're adding uh I think it's two and a half or three feet right here off the side of the deck the walkway and this patio area is adjacent to lot 16 so and when I looked The pictur Well Screen there mhm between the two houses between 14 and and r yes and that'll all remain yeah that I saw I don't recall as much um screening between 16 and 15 now I recall taking a note that there was a lot between 14 and 15 not 16 and right well it's just there it's there if there was screening it would benefit us because it's their driveway and detached garage and Fa and a they have garage doors facing our property and the detached garage which faces the street so it's their own little vehicle Courtyard there we see this batched garage you're saying on this side this picture is it is that picture looking that way which picture first one is it looking towards that garage or is no that's looking towards the back towards the farm behind the barn behind us oh back totally right if you came down these stairs the gravel is there and that's the back and turn to look towards the back sides see a little B is there any consideration um put into maybe doing an open deck and then a patio around it [Laughter] no accept answer just to balance The Hardscape and you know just seems that add that much coverage and then adding landscaping around we I know you're putting in the the water un right to mitigate the runoff and again it's pretty much all improved now um this main portion of the patio is over the deck and the and the gravel that's there now um we could I we could plant some shrubs on the the right side but again it's just buffering their driveway I know you said um you know it's an lot or R six Zone um but it it doesn't look under sized for the area would you agree with that I'm just looking at the lots that are on the map they're all more or less half an acre or yes they're pretty standard size maybe a couple larger ones on the corners okay and then obviously larger ones behind us right as we go into a different zone right right our four [Applause] um Mr schide do you have any questions from your memo that weren't uh touched on I guess my one comment number five about how much of the coverage is accounted for in the in the infiltration system is that going to account for everything over the 18% no we accounted for 1,518 which is new patio and the conversion of the deck at the end and the gravel at the end of the day though you have you're slightly over so you've got uh enough volume to handle 1632 Square ft the overage is 1724 s so it's only another 100 square ft to accommodate all of the impervious cover over what the ordinance will perit we can en enlarge the the system for everything over 18% put whichever the reduce or reduce the coverage or reduce the coverage or both both anything else Mr um I think everything else was my comment number six in my uh January 31 2025 review memo just talks about the standard soil erosion control measures either going to be required by the engineering department or the probably not the Soil Conservation District I believe it I did a generous rough estimate um before coming tonight and it was at about 4,500 so I don't anticipate a being over 5,000 disturbance and the only other thing I would point out is that back when prior property owner was in for aaring in 2006 the board did recognize the existing shed as a pre-existing non-conformity back then it's obviously it's still pre-existing nonconformity now meaning no no variance for for no I mean certainly appropriate to see if it could be moved to conform but I I would say a Varan would not be required to let it stay there you've been in the property for a couple of years now yes almost three years and you've been living there for three years has anybody um ever commented about the shadow location of this ch um Mr Quinn uh if we switch over to your memo we've touched on some of these I'm sure you want to share some words of caution sure yeah some of this is technical Kathy already discussed some of the storm order stuff she'll take care of um as we always do anytime an applicant comes in here here and request relief from the ordinance we caution them that whatever you're approved at that's your number don't go over often times excess material lying around or for whatever reason it tends to mushroom but that'll just cause you grief and you'll have to come back to the board so um that's that's really the big cautionary T from that you'll have to get so Conservation District Kathy will walk you through that um and and we had a discussion just prior to the meeting I think what they're going to build is a couple square feet less than what we show to save that tree at the corner because my question prior to them is do you ever want think you're going to want a generator and I know we've talked about that in front of the board and I think if we Notch out that corner that could compensate for a generator later so I i' they've heated the warning of the coverage what we get is allowed so in any Regard in terms of storm water and wherever we end up on imp's cover I think we've agreed that the applicant will provide storm order for everything over the 18% right we just went there that's not in my memo but that's something we'll agree to I think um we talked about the shed being relocated I had included that as well um I think that's all I really have of any relevance here okay and then um oh I'm sorry one thing I did want to just to to get some sense of the degree of the increase we were trying to get an idea of what the existing number was so we knew how much you were increasing right you're stating 1500 now but it's likely to be closer to a TH or maybe a little over a thousand and again it's the proposed that counts but I just so that the board would have some sense for how much additional impervious cover is being added from the existing condition I don't think we ever really answered that clearly here right um I can give you that I have every version of the number other than that one um so if we took the 3726 right and we added the 390 for the gravel is 416 what does that give you and we're proposing what does that give you as a percentage 4116 do you know on I can tell 561 divided by oh I have it here 21.4 4% 21.4 0404 2104 that's what you're saying is the current that's the current okay I I don't have anything else on this thank you Mr and then did you also receive a copy of the environmental commission we did not did not okay well I can we can share one make sure that you are comfortable thanate so there's comments one through seven nice to startem I think we um so yes we did I I'm stand corrected we did receive this and review it a number of these items we come for variance and then pending the variance we do compliance plan which will work as our lock operting soil erosion sediment control so the area of disturbance we'll do the soil erosion will comply with all those um best management practices uh we have the storm water management in the back if Landscaping is added we'll focus on Native Landscaping um and again we're not removing any trees and number seven I think is just they were to yeah underground tank or something right and just to be clear you guys would be complying with everything in Mr Quin and Mr SCH M too yes thanks okay any additional questions this time is there any questions from uh the public or other Miss Mueller all the chfers uh since we asked that before any questions from the public are there any comments from the public on this application are there for or against it that's good okay all right no um M mu do you have any closing comments before you turn it over to your board um no just in summary I don't see any detriment to the neighborhood uh we tried to concentrate the improvements where they already were um I think it's going to add value to the surrounding neighborhood it's going to remove a safety concern for the the homeowner um so again I I think there's positives to the application thank you just doing more math okay right 596 is that what you said that that was that's what I get I had 565 oh 565 okay all right thank you beyond the gravel including the gravel in the deck thank you okay thank you um comments uh from the board anybody want to um kick us off here um so as I go through the criteria for granting the waivers um I don't necessarily see any substantial detriment but I don't see any really substantial benefit I think it's um there's and I don't see a hardship I think the houses are are all pretty uniform in this area um I don't see it as an undersized lot amidst um a lot of U larger properties so um I do see some benefits to the property owner for having a larger space for children um but I do believe that that could probably be reduced a little bit um I do appreciate also the um storm water management system um but again I think uh with with something maybe just scaled back a little bit I think we could probably make this work okay thank you Miss bman um you know I I agree I you know it's clearly undersized for the Zone it's not undersized for the neighborhood or at least it doesn't appear to be that way I think you know the challenge I'm having is they're already over they're 3% over no fault of theirs we get that but they're already 3% over and you're asking for another 5.8% my numbers are correct so that's a lot um we see a lot percentage wise percentage it's it's it's a lot and I appreciate it's under size but you also the land is what it is and we're covering even more of it so um I I have uh a problem with the absolute number I do think there are some benefits even from a safety standpoint I'd like to facilitate this project in some way I'd like to see the deck redone um and I think that makes a lot of sense and and you know leveling it out and getting rid of these steps I think there's a lot of safety things that we can point to um but I am not comfortable with the amount that's being asked for here and then you know similar to other applications rather than to direct the applicants on what to do do this do that I I view that is outside of the board's purview so I I would be comfortable giving them a little leeway but not what they're asking for yeah and I I'm agreeing also that's why I asked Miss meller in your going back and forth with the applicant in terms of did you think of any way that you know any other design that would that was sort of a lead to say if you had thought of other designs some of which might be uh have less in prvious covers but I am concerned also as well okay I'm I'm hearing the opinion of the board I number that the board is comfortable with because then we can ask if you want to change your application or not change your application is there a number that the board unless there's other opinions also happy to hear other opinions but if there's a number that the board is comfortable with perhaps we can suggest that such that they can have a path to facilitate their project number they at right now 21 they're at 20 they're currently at 21.4 and they're asking for 26.8 and 18% is allowed so if we went to like 25 would that give them a patio yeah that's it it would it's still a little high for me personally um I'm coming up the 23 times that's what I was thinking was proar 23 20 kind of like splitting spitting the can the board be comfortable with 23 anybody want to argue for something El sort of like splitting the difference between you know it's great but it's place to start engineering point of view when you do the treatment uh you supplying those you know storage it uh does take care of impious Sur surfaces eventually what you want to do is collect all the water discharged to the ground so transferring essentially uh you are meeting the essence of what we call these ground water recharge or you know having a perious surface so you know if you are providing a big enough system to store water that's equivalent to having uh you know more pervious area so less so if they are going to put a bigger uh slightly bigger system then it going to 25 because you know yeah I I guess at 25% just so that the board understands because it's a small lot percentages add up yeah sure they um if you take the usable area they have in their yard with the deck and the gravel area they're at 4679 Which is less which is more than 25% 9561 it's actually 24% so they're using 24% of the lot now with the gravel with the gravel in the deck if you were to replace that with patio the we would already be at 24 without an expansion so to to do this project it'd be nice to get a little bit more area um can I have a two-minute conversation with my clients out in the hallway there's option to an elev de we can just do put all new back deck back and do exactly this and it would be deck and they would have the usable area and there would be no storm water management required because we would be under 1,000 square feet so there'd be no benefit of in the storm water so you know our storm water is mitigating not only what's perceived to be there it's the expansion as well so it's not just what we're increasing it we're we're mitigating what's there as if it was pavers as well so there is a benefit that would be lost if we went back to deck so it's something to weigh and if you can give me a minute I'll go talk to my clients so the storm water mitigation is nice but it's not improving someone else's property at all it would be it would be because you're capturing water it's it's a it's a neighborhood Improvement just as every property flows to somebody else's property impr the ground versus over the grass which everybody else's property goes in the grass we're collecting the area that's the deck now we're collecting the area that's to gravel now we're collecting everything over 18% for what we agreeing to so my own personal view is that it's not just the capturing system we can have the best supercharged capture system out there it doesn't mean we'd be comfortable covering the entire backyard I I fully understand and I you know it's also yeah it's a it's what we're doing to justify our variance um and you know 1% is less than 200 square feet so we're at 24 now with what they're using so let me go have a conversation with my clients two minutes please sure yeah I know there's other applications we're going to take a break for two minutes yes e e e e e e e e e okay we are uh we're back from our short break okay amended application um I discussed it with our clients um you know they do have one child and a child on the way and they use the area that they have if we include Ed the deck and the gravel we would be at 24% the one goal that we don't achieve it it keeps them whole in their backyard for what they inherited but it does not give them the walkway which I think is a real benefit to using the backyard especially small children the Moms come with their little baby buggies and and drive them to the back um I just measured it out the walkway along the side of the house from here taking out this this patio here and just coming to the edge of the main patio is 65 feet linear feet times only 3 feet wide we like to do four for passing if we kept it at three that's 200 square ft that equates to another percent so to keep them whole in the back that would trim this little bump out out over here off keep them whole for what they have for in decking and gravel is 24% they'd really like to have this walkway that's one more perc that brings us to 25 um right now our application is asking for just under 27 um so 26 I would like the board to consider that we're we're open to hearing feedback um but again the main goal is the connection will lose the expansion Beyond what's not impervious now or or decking now to the right we would take this straight to the the house trim trim this part off it's right to the edge of the what's the decking now but we'd have to extend the walkway so it wouldn't fully go away we would have a walkway through it um coming up here and over here where we expanded to the left of the existing deck we would pull that back to the the edge of the deck that gives you 25 you that gives us 25 we're at if you take the existing coverage we have as 3726 3726 there's 390 square feet of gravel and there's 500 and 63 Square ft of deck that's 4679 that is 19561 that's 23.92 per. and then 200 square ft for 65 by3 walkway is another another 200 which is a whole percentage I didn't do the full math I trust your math okay so you've mended your application to what proposed 25% walkway no including the walkway okay you're just amending your application for 25% and you're telling us why that's correct okay any additional questions for Mr and we'll still agree to do the storm order for everything over 18 thank you any questions from the public any um comments on this appli from the public okay anything else for us miss uh that's it I'd like to hear the board's opinion before yes should okay anybody um want to kick us off here for deliberations I mean I I would be in in favor I think it's a lot better at the 25% um amount yeah I mean I think we have to give some credit for the fact that because a percentage that's being applied you know to everybody um and you do that for other people to and I think that at least gets the patio down to like less visible size it's not okay okay I still have a problem with the um absolute number I don't see anything magic around the existing area other than like the fact that it's already there and you want to use that space and I don't it just seems too big of a number uh for me person I think there are other ways of of attaining the um area that you're looking for so for me it's it's a little bit too much okay is um jippy any any comments Dr AR any comments I app applicants you know try to SC down but I still am a little concerned with the 25 okay probably I'm still around the 24 all right so this mixed views I'm good okay they had stor water PL so that okay does anybody want to make a motion there's different views here so does anybody want to make a um motion on this application and then we'll vote my motion would be to deny if I were to make one okay what's the motion the motion would be to deny I I could make the motion I don't know if I'm allowed to as it okay I I would I would vot uh make a motion to to approve Grant the application the variances that she's asking for at 25% yes is there a second on that okay there's a motion and a second okay do we have a C1 C2 um okay that's a good uh question a C1 or C2 variance yes I just don't see it as a hardship I just you also I can't apply just the lawyer but theoretically the board can find that you know the benefits of the the application there's some planning benefits here okay so could be under C1 and C2 so you want to amend your motion to say it's under C1 and C2 yes I'd like to make a motion to approve the variance under C1 and C2 thank you and there's a second from Dr Aral thank you and that would be with all the conditions in our various for professional memos as well as the department commission memo and the applicant would beor no go ahead providing uh I'm sorry additional resizing the storm water uh system to accommodate the full anything over 18% correct and we're only approving up to 25 okay Miss Dr Miss bman no Mr Krauss no m p no Miss poar yes Miss silver yes uh chairwoman Jers no four no so so the motion failed for 25 it failed for 25 um there may be a motion based upon some of the comments here at a slightly no lower number would you like to consider amending your application for a number like 24 um before we uh go on to the next case for the walkway if we were to put in Stepping Stones surrounded by sufficient lawn would that count against impervious part of it would I think if you're just going to put just a physical horizontal I just point out in the P you set a threshold and give the act of the flexibility to right ruce down that number also the want make its own motion not necessarily total parallel with what the applicants proposing on its own motion right gr 24% 24 would approve what's pre-existing um it would it would be 24 and whatever you wanted to do with it 24 we'll we'll back it down to 24 okay is is there a motion another motion to approve at 24% okay for the same reasons that you voed earlier okay is there a second I'll second I'm sorry who made the motion Sil Mr Cross with second Dr arwell yes M Balman yes Mr Krauss yes Miss Pichi yes Miss poar yes Miss silver yes and chairwoman J yes good luck with your project thank you good night okay next up on the agenda um is uh 8C carrian variance ZB 24023 don't be afraid it's a tough night tough night here good evening yeah no worries let's get reorganized I know I know you know what just before we start there on that last application I'm not sure that if we mentioned uh whether the shed could stay there or not it's already it's already ex experien it's pre-existing we didn't need to vote on okay all right I'm already all right so real quick before we get started I'll just point out for the record um I had an opportunity to review the applicant notice here this is the caran application mam sh if you pronounce it or not but uh their notice is good content sufficient timely sered board this Juris section here inide thank you okay who do we have here I'm Dan carrian home over at 71 North Maple Avenue Mario go car again great we're gonna just ask you to speak right into that microphone because we're picking it up and it's recording um and uh we hear you want to do a patio and a pool yes ma'am is that right do you want want to tell us I thought you did that sorry okay so for professionals the appli engineer presuming okay raise your hands for me you also affirm testimony about Prov the truth the whole truth on the we truth I do okay uh again my name is Dan caran this is my wife Margo we live at 71 North Maple Avenue we've live there for about 17 years we have four kids uh ranging from 7 years old as of yesterday to 16 years old uh we're here speaking with you all tonight uh requesting an application for a variance so that we can install a pool in the backyard is your engineer going to take us through the plans or can we go through these pictures or how okay so yes could you please give the board your credentials and background licenses Gary Chang um I am graduate of uh NGIT and I've been a professional engineer in the state of New Jersey for over 25 years and I'm in good standing thank you we will accept you thank you professional engineer okay so um yes we are proposing an inground swimming pool with a um ptio and a shed and the exist um the allow coverage is 18% and we are asking for a variance of uh let's see where is it 18.75% 15% no yeah 15 15 15 I'm sorry yes 15 yes 15 okay so we're over by you know 3.75% okay and that's for the pool a patio walkway and a shed and a shed and what's the shed for uh storage okay so that's that's all that's all it really is for okay is it storage of what what Toys chairs chairs okay tows okay not a pool house it's somewhat well I don't I mean no one's going to live there no one's going to live there it's I do want electricity so I could have you know some light and maybe a camera it's not a social space you not put a TV in there not putting kind house do you have a picture of the shed we see that we don't have a shed but nice to have we got a this is have three pictures three pictures we can mark this exhibit one it's three uh three scale photographs of the shed I guess an example yeah I mean mhm I know that there's there is a difference in setback for sheds and or pool hous and stuff like that but um we are going to move it back um uh to 20 ft just you know just to make sure that there's you're going to say it doesn't matter going to comply exactly yes yes it will mhm by roughly 95 Square ft another so what is the size of the shed the size of the shed it's [Music] um it's 192 Square ft right now so um you know 10 10 by 20 roughly yeah mhm sorry Mr s what were you saying it was going to affect when he slides it over he going to be covering up some of the area that show oh we're going to reduce it by another 95 Square F feet okay all right excuse meent that's roughly um 95 got to do the [Laughter] math it's probably like a quarter of a percent or something yeah 22 two22 [Music] 22 so it's 1847 is really what you're asking for is that correct um or no still asking for 18 and 3/4 it will be [Music] um 18.58% 18 okay you're asking for 18.5 yes I'm sorry that's why moving the to 20 ft off the property right 15 20 right and you said it will have electricity in it will it have a bathroom no okay it'll have electricity okay okay so we are providing uh storm water management for um for all you know um all the proposed um new impervious so we providing a um Inlet in the back to collect all the runoff and going into um out store mot management system should we go over the um the letter yes please okay you're talking about Mr s's U memo yes let's do that okay um number one and two just goes over the um the existing and proposed coverage there was a um discrepancy between the um existing um driveway and um it was confirmed that um the the existing that was listed on the survey was correct so that was revised that's why it came up with the um 18.8 instead of the 18.6 that was submitted previously so but you know with the reduction of the um by moving the uh shed and the reduction of the existing patio it is you know it was still what I was saying it was the that's why it came out 1858 um there was a question about the um the removal of some existing concrete there was there was some gravel area in the backyard that um some loose gravel back there that the survey called out to be concrete um but it actually has since been removed so we took that out you know of the calculation yes yes right since it was already you know previously called out to be remove so that was not that was already discounted so that's it's not actually walk right it's some yeah just yeah they they call the concrete but it's really just loose gravel yeah but it's going to get removed any it was removed already so clarify don't show reduction right separ ex exactly yes MH the numbers don't need to CH no no because it's already removed yeah so so that was uh 3A and 3B and then uh 3C talks about the um coverage of the existing generators and concrete pad which um I also you know uh just took into account and added another 15 square feet for those 18. right yes couple things yes I did okay number four uh we talked about the shed we'll move it back to 20 ft um number five I mean we you know the the fence is going to be pool compliant that's not a problem um number six um we could provide that perk test um prior to um the approval and and number seven talks about sore um erosion measures um we are over 5,000 square ft of disturbance so we will apply to S erosion also uh number eight um any there not going to be any trees being removed number nine so um this talks about um there's a um stream that's roughly 500 ft away um even with um what a 300 buffer 300 foot buffer should not affect the property itself talk right come the property I don't think it affects the ability to doation right and whatever for it right um would it be a permit by rule from okay so we I could provide that that's not a problem right yes yes I I will provide that right mhm um number 10 and um the existing driveway which um they previously got a variance for um is roughly an inch over um the 3T was required and it's actually 2 roughly 86 feet you know that's from the construction I guess you know sometime I'm not I have not confirm uh if it's exact ly uh sometimes you know the surveyor go out there and just stick a rod in the ground I mean could move you know an inch here and there yeah I wasn't so much pointing out that the setback is 2.9 instead three was more that the the driveway is supposed to angle away from the property line as it goes toward the rear of the property okay and it should be more like five six or sevenet by the time you get back and at that point a coup right Beyond where it's supposed to be under the prior approval driveway was supposed to stay to the house because the house is not exactly parall to the property line right looks like they did it parallel to the property line so it didn't instead of staying parallel to the house and moving away from the property line as you got more closer to the backyard right it stayed pretty much parallel to the proper uh so that I mean by making prod some coverage right but it is just SL uhhuh I mean to remove but it would need some Rel You Can Am the application ask for an amendment to that prior setback variance to allow for what exists now or comply with it and at the same yeah just saw cutting like you know less than an inch is very uh well no it's it's it's a good also takes up the angle is over 100 square feet the fact that it the length of it yes okay is is 100 yeah it starts as like it's compliant it's a z but SC and I don't know landscap pretty solid over there yes know I mean is that growing over any yeah it's like it's way over our so you're not going to miss that it's just a matter of if you can remove it's hard for them to get in there that's what I mean you can do it without damaging the trees that would what be more concerned about you're not Los any functionality ripping yeah it's better to amend it because how are we gonna like they would literally have to yeah it's intense the trees are ginormous now so here's kind of two options either you request the variant to permit what's there now or you comply with what was the 2015 approval which would requireed you you to move part of the requested yeah I think there's no guarantee you're going to get it that's those trees are ginor so he's going to request okay okay so he's going to request that variance to not comply with the former um stipulation I guess for uh part of the resolution it would I would characterize it as a new variance to permit the setback to be as as little as 2.9t as shown on the survey okay and that that kind of subes the that you're modifying that PRI condition okay but in our um in our calculations here the the coverage already includes the driveway as it is now yes yes you have that one okay number 11 um if we're going to propose lighting it's going to be all downward facing lights um number 12 um will complies that and number 13 will utilize the best management practice I think your pretty much everything except uh number 10's kind of yese ISS correct all the other okay and did you receive a cop anything else Mr s are you comfortable with what's covered um Mr Quinn um did you get a copy of M okay we it doesn't matter I no on your plan you didn't include the de right I mean it does have gaps and everything yeah [Music] right I don't know why I add I see your Vo yes seems Basics in7 800 you're basically covering all of the over the that's correct I'm satisfied with that um I did want to say since we're in Varan territory it looks like all world you're going to want to connect the walk to that pool you know actually we we did discuss to that and they they actually don't want it not put it near any trees or like yeah they don't they don't like it want to make sure we don't get into creepy yeah that was one of the question I did ask him they don't ask question is it and I couldn't tell from the pictures or from the the overview we have is I pulled a Google map is it that there's trees right behind your house and then your trees right behind your house and I do have pictures it's all open like there's like three big trees and these are new pictures how [Music] many so how would you get from the I guess the have ack so you the would go the deck downs and just on the grass on the grass that's a fair question about that bit everybody wants on the we don't want that would be a long patio in the back that's a of exhibit A2 these are two grayscale photographs of the property's rear yard B test one at the applicant when these photographs take you guys today today okay today so they're data just in Cas I finish yes please yes yes M right you do I usually you go they don't that's that's that's is above the surf that's fine yes also one for these two little uncomfortable I add another maybe along this sure I we don't have a problem with that I didn't know what this what is this is this a or it's a spa yes it's a spa yeah mhm yeah just didn't call it out but it's got a cover so it's imp cover like PA is not like pool well no no it's a it's it's it's built in it's built in to be the same level at the pool so yeah talk about area that also right we're going to go we're going to go um apply for that and that's all I have you have any problems with any of uh no I don't all right so you're going to comply with everything Mr yes thank you okay and then uh did you also receive a copy of the environmental commission yes I have I you IM real quick before begin the E report Mr Chen also gave so this is ex would be exhibit a c a landscaping plan uh dly 23rd 2020 oh this is new yes he just with phot that we put in a whole bunch of trees for privacy that's what exists on the yeah it we put it in 2020 but it was after our you know renovation trees got the par the park is behind yes drive it's par so just for some pass that Mr you have a copy of the E yes I do okay um okay I'll take it away um um so comment one they're requesting that you guys Revis the plans to show the area of disturbance do that yes uh as part of the uh uh Soil Conservation District submission uh one two and three are all going to be shown on those plans okay yes you guys will employ storm water best management practices during site work uh makeing good faith best ever are you guys planning any additional uh no um they there's substantial planting as per that landscape plan already okay not seeing too much of a jump at that so we can go ahead that not that one um utilize best management practices when discharging pool water yes okay and they also want you to be the wants you to be aware of the potential for inground tanks Le paint and desbest and they want you to take proper precautions during demolition if you counter any of those will you take those precautions yes yes okay and then no no trees are being remov no no trees being REM okay are there um questions from the board I didn't I usually I know we sent the no one reached out to approach to if the uh certifi bail that they got they might become good friends we we probably will hear from yes okay um okay any um questions from the public are there um any comments yes are there any comments from the public on this application are there for or against it no seeing none okay anything else for us uh no okay thank you very much thank we have ulations to talk about yeah I can hit real quickly yeah why don't you hit yeah okay so uh I'll get go for the variances first um two variances being sought here guys uh lot coverage they're proposing uh 18.58% where 15% is permitted and then uh the other one is a driveway setback that's to permit the the existing addition which is at closest 2.9 ft from the uh is that the norly side yard yes yes um so there two variances as far as conditions go everything in Mr SCH Memo from January 31st everything Mr quin's Memo from February 3rd and uh pretty much everything in the environmental commission memo except the condition they plant trees and shrubs as it looks like they have pretty sufficient Landscaping already and I didn't know any other additional conditions beond what was contained in those M so that's about it thank you um and the 58% that you're asking for you're comfortable with that number it's a very specific number um we just it just by moving the shed down you know so you know 18.5 n when you ask for 18.58% okay um does anybody want to um kick it off with any comments here or motions so I think this is fairly straightforward um I I think that um I I I like the fact that I always consider the fact that the pool also captures some of the water so even at the 18 and a half% I still feel as though you have a little bit of leeway yeah and you're covering um the additional um storm water runoff with a with the management system so we really do appreciate when you look at that um in my opinion I don't see any hardship here but I see that there's no detriment whatsoever in this plan um I do think that it improves um your house and the uh the enjoyability um I don't think it's going to impact any neighbors I think you're well screened um and you have open land behind your house so I I I really don't I I see no issue I see no detriment I would see this under uh C1 for the driveway there would be a hardship to remove that portion of the driveway but they kind of did it themselves well it's all you know yeah I I'm okay with the C2 on that did they do it or was it no pre-existing yeah wait I thought it was a 2015 approval was yeah oh they didn't sorry okay I take I would then I would take that back okay um but I don't see any I don't see any uh detriment to it so I I see this under a C2 variance um okay thank you that's my thought that is a motion is there a second motion do you want me to make a motion oh no I was just giving comments but I would deem the application complete I would um uh ask our attorney to draft a um uh resolution memorializing our um approval of the application with all of the conditions and stipulations uh from the applicant I will second that thank you thank you m palman m uh Dr arwell yes M Balman yes Mr CR yes Miss Pichi yes Miss coar yes Miss silver yes chair wom Jers yes thank you thank you good thank you thank you thank you thank you kids will be happy mom and dad will be happy okay yeah next up on the agenda is uh 9A which is the penri corporation uh ZB 24024 to it I would the notice it to be sufficient in terms of its content timeliness of service sent by certified mail on January 18th and published in the verners of the news on January 24th uh thus in my legal opinion the board is jurisdiction here and decide the case um Council I can take it away thank you uh thank you Roger mayor linderberry McCormick esbrook and Cooper I represent the applicant pingry Corporation better known as the pingry school uh what was just passed out by our engineer are the hard copies of the electronic exhibits that were uh sent to Mr Sly uh they were not part of the application package but there's some additional exhibits that the uh engineer is going to refer to and identify when we get there so they they will be marked in evidence as the hard copies in your file um I guess my first question is we're pretty close to some of your witching hours here so so um I know that you cut off absolutely at 10:30 we have three Witnesses one of whom the first of whom is Mike Waltz who's the facilities director at pingry he's fairly brief but then we have our engineer and our planner both of who are you know are going to take more than 10 minutes so what is the board's schedule because we are clearly going to have to come back yeah I I think do you mean schedule will Beyond tonight yes because we are we are not going to finish and I'm not a big fan of Peace meal un applications frankly unfortunately yeah no I understand we have to do it sometimes yeah we can't manage do the best we can but you have until 10:30 tonight and then I would assume if you are not finished uh or close to finish then we will carry it to a future date and Miss kefir would help us with that so what does the schedule look like do you want to start tell us yeah we'll go ahead and start um but I'm just trying to get an idea it's like every applicant we've got time constraints on our end too are you okay if we start and we do this after do it matter or is it gonna affect like the um no I because I think once I get through Mr Waltz I'm G to stop and I don't think he's going fine he's not going to take till 10:30 I don't believe why don't why don't we do that in m will okay all right doing so um I think y all know at least a little bit about the application because we were here for the completeness hearing in December um but it's um the property is block 11601 lot 301 it's one large lot that's the entire pingry campus all of its uh facilities are in one lot it's 191 plus acres uh a great deal of the property is uh restricted from development in one way or another a lot of it the steep slopes in the back environmentally sensitive areas uh there's really uh what you see when you go into the campus is most of the developable area in the entire campus there are some Open Spaces in the rear part of the campus their Farmland that's actually farmed uh some of the products are used in the cafeteria in pingry uh but pingry manages its Forest its farmland and tries to to manage the whole campus so soort of what you see in the front is pretty much everything that's there um we were originally a permitted use in that zone many years ago the R3 uh the definitions changed uh the zoning changed we are now at conditional use and because we have a number of front yards uh partially because we have a very small Frontage on Sunset Lane unfortunately everything we have is in the front yard all of our parking is in the front yard all of our active Recreation all of our athletic facilities everything's in the front yard it's it's been that way there's no place else to put it we just that's where it is so we we do in front of his board before yes many times many many times I mean one of the first things I worked on when I started practicing law was the construction of the original campus Building back in the late '70s early 80s so learned more about sewage than I ever wanted to know uh but uh um this this application is uh for reconfiguration adjustment Improvement of two existing Athletic Field Fields uh they're both grass fields uh they both will continue to be grass fields they are not lighted they will not be lighted uh one is the World Cup soccer field that was built in the 90s for the 92 I believe World Cup was a training site for for uh Italy it was a training site for the US Women's National Team and it's used obviously by pingry in its athletic programs there's an adjoining field which currently has a baseball uh diamond on it and other uses uh that will also be improved expanded adjusted somewhat in location as you'll hear about and made into a second soccer training field it's a bit smaller than the first one but we are again in a position to host training for the upcoming US uh World Cup and some of the Friendlies with the international Club teams uh their standards have changed those hund million doll guys in short pants don't run around just any old grass you know so they have they have very strict standards so we have a proposal to reconfigure those two Fields um to um improve and expand a little bit of Terrace viewing area that we currently have and to cover a small area of that viewing area to the rear of it it's a we're calling it a pavilion that's probably a pretty fancy term for a little covered patio or something um there are other related improvements out the benches uh for the players there's fencing including some uh fencing that requires is because it's higher than uh especially because it's in the front yard higher than the standards but it's a lot of it it's all Safety and Security related uh netting so that stray uh baseballs soccer balls lacrosse balls don't impact anybody um we are also improving a third adjacent um baseball field just with new dugouts since that will be used uh uh a little bit more for the baseball program because we're eliminating one in field and one of the soccer fields so we have a uh several D3 variances I think Mr SCH has done a great job sort of identifying them in this memo um and then we have the uh variances for fence height and so forth which are more uh typical bulk variances but we have an existing um use that's not going to change there's no new programs coming in there's no more students no more anything uh it's just an improvement uh and the existing uses are going to continue will enable us to continue to host these uh uh visiting teams occasionally and otherwise be used for our own educational and athletic programs can I ask a question sure how often are the um are the fields used for training for professional training uh you better off asking Mike that when Once he's sworn he's the facilities director he could tell you but it's not a weekly or daily or monthly basis I mean these these teams come in for major tournaments um like the World Cup which we don't host all the time and uh if you're a soccer fan like I am um they come in the off season in Europe to come over here and let their and play Friendlies with other teams and let their a lot of their second team players run around and charge a lot of money for people to watch them they were teams there this past summer right yeah so they do and they do then need training when they come to Giant Stadium particularly but is it is it only um off school hours yeah yeah they're not they are not there they're not there when the students are there I mean obviously if it if if Italy comes back and trains for the World Cup um there are always volunteers from the student body in the summertime that come and you know pick up towels and get autographs and things but they are not there during the school day day um when the students are there they're training is at different times and they they have their own security I mean that those guys there serious celebrities those guys and those teams they have security they you know they it's great I mean they spend money in hotels they spend money on catering they do you know they do bring some economic activity but it's not a weekly or month you know it's a it's it's a time frame and it's usually when it's when the kids are not in school yeah and the practice is if they're training is it it's closed yes yes yeah now do friend pingry friends and family come and watch a little bit sure but they don't allow the public in oh yeah and they don't allow public in they don't sell tickets speaker system like in this Grand standard Pavilion is there um there is not I don't believe there are existing if you look at the field there's a scoreboard which going to remain on on the side sort of more towards uh where the Ping headmaster's House is there's a scoreboard that's got speakers for announcements in connection with games that's going to stay no change but that's not going to change no no and and if there were speakers in the Pavilion area or the seating area they would actually be directed at the field not to the rear where the where the you know it' just be for public address purposes but but that's been in there you know for for a long long time so the only parking that would be needed would be for people invol yeah this is not generating visitors or parking at any time that Ping's parking is otherwise used by the school so it's yeah so we're not in the middle of a school day in March bringing players in to train there so okay thank yeah just a parking question is anywhere else that you could create parking ever on that only ask I've done there many times yeah and it definitely if there's multiple activities from school and you know people rent things the fields and different indoor soccer it would be difficult I think to create much more parking I mean that's more of an engineering question than for me probably but I mean I think you'd start really eating more into the front yard and and you know we've purposely created a lot of BMS and and and screening in the front so that the whole campus is a little protected from the street you know from street view but you know it would be difficult without starting to lose Fields probably among other things um so that being said there have three Witnesses uh Mike Waltz director of facilities uh we have Brian Enis who's a professional engineer with bowler who's our designer and we have Paul Phillips who's our planner uh to to wrap up testimony um we also have Michael dwire available for questions I'm not going to put him on he's a with bowler he's a licensed landscape architect so if there are any questions about the any of the uh trees or Landscaping he can address them so anything else questions for me you want to just this thing as exhib yeah that would be fine that's just renderings rendering ex jary okay then I would call Mike wels please okay and he's the director of facilities yeah hiar everybody what was your last name sorry well w a LZ okay so let's swear our board professionals Mr Wales I don't know if you want to get your other two witnesses as well might as well just get everybody want in case nobody forgets next time okay so we have Brian anus Paul Phillips okay allir the testimony about Prov the the so uh my name is Mike Wells I'm the director of facilities Roger more or less said everything that I was going to speak about I just want to reiterate typically the teams come uh in the summer we this past year we had a couple more teams we had one at Spring break uh but pretty much annually we have a team it doesn't impact much of anything that the teams like coming here because they have privacy they bring their own security like Roger said and uh it doesn't really impact the parking and to your answer about parking nobody wants to pay for parking unfortunately and uh it is a challenge everybody is always complaining about it this really shouldn't impact that uh when they come they bring their own security um and uh once again it doesn't minimal impact on traffic minimal on parking and not open to the public these training sessions sometimes they'll open them on a day maybe on a Saturday usually just to the pingry community so it really once again it has very little impact negative impact to to the area but they don't sell tickets to this or anything no no we never have does our own um police force provide security I know you said they have their own security does our well both we hire the local Bernards PD so they're aware when they're coming in absolutely absolutely yep and uh I don't know unless you have any other question questions I guess that just about covers it so I I do want to understand though um how how is it how is it not impacted so are they coming on buses or yeah they'll come with buses typically the state troopers will escort them in so that we'll have them come in through the back uh we have our own Staffing to control make sure that nobody else is coming in with them so they're very well isolated and uh the times when school is in session it's that that they have been there the students barely even know they're there because the bus comes in through the back they Park they get out go on the field the fields are in the back of the campus anyway so it's really not viewable from anywhere unless you really try to make an attempt to get there will there be equipment trucks like you know when football teams travel they have these huge equipment yeah and they'll have some that you know bring everything in for the players I they those those will also be off yeah they come in but once again it's it's either off hours or it's you know they're really fairly quiet when they come in which but their own security is at your Gates because I've seen them a couple times it's a big deal when the teams are coming coming through you know I think the town knows about it and certainly with the World Cup I would assume our town will even know more about it it and they do come on these you know big fancy coach buses with escorts that are you know police oriented um but they're they're brought in right into the penry um and then they just kind of disappear right correct and we do I mean the typical security type measures where we monitor the gates and if the only people come in they would have to have special ID and right it's pretty pretty isolated and we've got it down pretty good it's I think it's similar to the hotels as well when the teams are in the hotel okay um currently I guess there was one field that been ripped up and I I saw recently um that field was available to rent or was it not available to rent I heard it was a it could be rental but it was an expensive rental yeah we typically don't rent the World Cup field other than to the professional teams because our we use it for our own teams yeah is a Grassfield it's Grassfield the new one's going to be Grassfield correct and did the work start already we've done some of the demo work on the viewing area so we've beat it up pretty good we talked with Dave SCH to make sure that we were we were allowed to do the demo but uh that's that's where we're at right now okay there no lighting associated with this at all correct no lighting if the teams are on the premises when the uh students are in session is there Security in the school typically know just I mean once again there's people outside we just make sure sometimes the kids try to sneak out and look at the team we we don't really have a problem with that but we keep everybody away from the the field and the players some teams are more receptive to having fans than others so sometimes they don't mind other times the coach will just I had problems last year getting on the field and I maintain it but uh that's just dependent on the field on the team rather so um I should know this the tournament is is in 26 26 correct so is it um are you planning specifically like for the Italian team or do you think there will be multiple teams using it or you don't know part of the reason we're putting the second field in is it would make us much more attractive we're on the short list we don't know we won't know what team we get we almost definitely will get a team by having the second field it increases the opportunity like ideally we'd like a top 10 team so uh which you know the big boys come in and the second field is definitely going to help increase the odds okay what's your anticipated we have uh this June there's a uh FIFA is holding on I forget the exactly what they call it but there'll be Club teams there so we're trying to get a team for this June so that's our yeah exactly the club world that's correct yeah it can go pretty quick once we get through some of the pering issues of course okay questions used by students they're only for custom no they're used by students absolutely absolutely just only the top 10 students correct we do baby the fields a little bit yes absolutely it's going be really good you got be really good yeah we don't even like them walking on it because they'll bring infectious diseases in there um more question questions for Mr W are there questions from the [Music] public okay seeing none thank you okay it's 10 after 10 it's your your choice um we can start Mr enus and at least get some of his uh engineering testimony it's up to you I I think farther we get better off we well yeah especially if you're looking for June of the Year okay got to get my shovel out great sorry David which folder should I click into I just want to make sure I'm going to the right thing well I have all your things in one okay they're all okay okay all all I can sort you want just go to wait a minute that's the the other one right yep that one perfect perfect I can go through my qualifications uh Brian would you go through your educational background qualifications quickly yes I graduated from NGIT with a bachelor's in civil engineering been at bowler engineering for over 13 years now our address is 125 Half Mile Road suet 207 in Red Bank New Jersey and my license is in good standing I've been licensed for over 10 years in New Jersey and I've actually been in front of this board before and other boards throughout the state of newers Jersey so and that's a professional engineering license in New Jersey that's correct okay terrific we will accept him as a professional engineer thank great um so what you see here we have A1 already correct which is the ones in front of you so I'm going to show some others I do have paper copies afterwards too yes yes so we're going to mark this one A2 what you're looking at on the screen is an overall site aerial exhibit by bowler dated January 30th time out do you want to Mark the entire person an exhibit we can do that too if that's easier not I'll just name the drawings as I reference them just okay so um exhibit A2 will be U multiple drawings prepared by bowler engineering and as I kind of pull them up and present them I'll just give you specifics of what they are what they're called yeah let me just make sure there's 11 minus the three that the board has in front of them just to make it a little confusing so there's going to be in if you want to call A1 this entire package it's different format we just include the other okay so A1 will be a package of 11 and you have three of those in A1 is these three A2 is presentation okay got it just keep is this presentation different than what we have or um I have a few more like the Aerials and things like that those are the specific ones um in terms of what we were going to share and pass out to the board I do have boards and paper copies of them as well too so um so the drawing in front of you is overall site aial exhibit by bowler dated January 30th 2025 this shows the entire property as was mentioned by Roger North is to the top of the page and it's the entire pingry campus the address is 131 Martinsville road block 11601 lot 3.01 the lot size for the entire tract is approximately 191 Acres and the total project area of Interest we'll call it is about 6.5 Acres which I'll zoom into in a second this is located in the residential R3 uh District where private school with recreational Fields is a conditional use as mentioned previously we're before the board because there are uh conditions that are not met currently and as part of this proposed application adjacent users were surrounded by Martinville road to the East Sunset Lane to the South um and numerous residential development ments with parks and Fields to the north um going to the next sheet this is the area of Interest aerial exhibit and this is also prepared by bowler and it is dated uh January 30th 2025 and just to kind of give a little bit more information the overall campus has 400 parking spaces numerous fields and Associated structures buildings and other fields throughout the entire campus and there's main access to the campus through multiple driveways on Martinsville Road um even after the construction of this project should have received approval um the fields and structures that we are proposing are not closer than some of the existing fields and structures that are already on the campus even though they do require their own uh relief specifically for their construction um there were a number of existing deviations that were previously approved for the campus and I just wanted to kind of run through those so the board is aware and which ones we are also proposing as part of this application uh there are is parking in front yards and maybe I'll just quickly refer back to the first sheet as you can see the front yard is defined as anything between the building and the RightWay line and you can see with my cursor the majority of the fields and parking as um our attorney alert alluded to earlier um is located within the front yard already um no active Recreation is allowed in the front yard or with SE within 75 ft of property lines and as you can see there's new numerous fields and things like that especially along Martinsville road that were previously approved and um are an existing non-conformity Recreation and parking areas are to be screened there is a deviation for that in some of the fields you can see the closest one uh a field right off Martinville Road about 20 ft with no screening again previously approved in part of the campus not changing um there is a requirement for no outdoor activities after 8:00 p.m. there is no change to that operation and as mentioned earlier we aren't prop proposing any lights as part of this development um accessory buildings and structures in the front yard again similar um a majority of the campus is front yard as stated previously so essentially most of these structures and buildings are in the front yard and also as previously mentioned maximum fence Heights we have up to 20 feet which the majority of those fences are actually the screens typically chain link fence for the for 4 to 8 ft and then mesh uh netting all the way up to 20 just for balls and things like that going from field to field I'll now go back to the area of Interest aerial exhibit and the majority of the campus and specifically to the north and west of the area you're looking at here are surrounded by D jurisdictional areas whether it be streams Wetlands transition areas associated with the wetlands and things like that um I think we mentioned in the completeness this we did file for an Loi in 2024 the D has still not made it to the site so we are still waiting for that Loi but when we do receive it if we do need D permitting we certainly will uh acquire that as part of the approval process I think we also mentioned it during the completeness hearing as well we did have a previous Loi that expired so there is a precedent set in terms of what the D has been looking at previously it has been re flagged resurveyed submitted as part of this application um and again at the conclusion of that Loi if we are disturbing any transition areas which our intent is not to um we would be getting the proper D permitting I would like to note that with the exception of some of the wooded area to the South that I'll get into for the grand stand the wetlands again are to the North and the west of this area and we're actually bringing the development in further from the wooded area and you'll see that as I get to the proposed conditions um the existing field just to kind of reiterate what Roger had mentioned previously includes two baseball fields one towards the north of the area interest and one in the Southeast Corner in addition there is the soccer field that currently exists and a soccer field that can um be placed in center and right field of the second baseball field that's staying um all parking areas fields and buildings not located within this area are to be untouched as previously mentioned with the exception of the driveway or the drive aisle I should say connecting the parking field to the back of the building that is being reconstructed and relocated a little bit closer to the building for us to be able to fit the second soccer field and also Corner that off and you'll see that in the proposed conditions so moving into the proposed conditions um this is the colorized site layout plan so this is the same plan that the board has in the package but it is colorized with the aerial dropped in for presentation purposes and this is prepared by bowler dated January 30th of 2025 and again colorized with the landscaping superimposed for presentation purposes and North again is to the top of the page so just to visually uh show the board what we were looking at and describing previously you see two Fields uh two fields for the soccer and then to the south of the second field which is the southernmost field the grandstand area which is what's in front of you uh with those exhibits uh the two soccer fields and the two dugouts that are being being added to the existing baseball field do re require relief for recreation areas within the front yard or within 75 ft and again you could see they're actually further from the property lines and even Sunset Lane than some of the existing fields and field houses that are currently there the northern most soccer field will be 330 ft by 210 ft and pretty much the design throughout the entire two soccer fields with the exception of the shared boundary in the middle there is a 10- foot runoff area is what we call it typically you don't want any walls fences anything intruding within 10t of the boundary lines because while the game is intended to stay within those you'll have people uh going out of bounds and chasing balls and things like that so we give a little bit of that safety area the southern most soccer field will be 345 ft by 223 ft with the same 10 foot um runoff I mentioned earlier uh this field the southern most field again will also have two player bench areas and what I'll oops we'll have two uh bench areas and I'll I'll zoom in and show you on the rendering that are covered for the players and then also an area for the officials in the middle of those two bench areas which is also covered um and those are also set 10t back from the boundary and in between the southernmost line of the Southern field and the grand stand itself um including included in the construction of the field will be some fences and walls that aren't associated with the grand stand and I'll get into the grand stand a little bit more detail later on um and the northern field along the Northwest and the Northeast Corners there are proposed walls that are under 8 ft in height and as part of that northeast corner you can see the Reconstruction of the driveway and it just gets a little bit closer to the building and again you could see how we're squared in and what we were really trying to do is obviously stay out of the D jurisdictional area to the north and west while also not impeding or impacting the wooded area to the South more than we have to so we actually tried to condense the development move that driveway closer to the building and kind of keep our footprint where we can as best as possible but also get that second field in um in addition behind each of the four goals there are some mix of either a 6-ft chain link fence with a 14t mesh netting on top of it or just 20ft mesh netting and that's pretty typical it's actually throughout the campus now if you go out there any goals they have the F fencing and netting behind it so that if any ball is shot wide of the net or above the net it's not going over to the baseball field if there happens to be a baseball game going on at the same time uh the proposed grand stand with the Pavilion will be further south um of the southernmost soccer field and I'll get into a little bit more detail some of the specifics of that design after I kind of just walk through the overall site the proposing improvements also include the existing baseball field which is located in the Southeast corner of the uh exhibit that you're looking at currently and as part of the improvements we are removing the soccer the baseball field that's in the northern portion or the northern most soccer field and making this one the new varsity baseball field so that's why the dugouts are coming over they're also doing a Turf infield as part of this Improvement to um kind of spruce up that baseball field at the same time as removing the other one um as mentioned previously relief is being sought for the fence height and just to go into specifics the maximum permitted in a front yard is 4 feet to uh the majority of the chaining fencing is 6 feet and it's located basically along the walking path from the parking area to the Pavilion there's a 6ot chain link fence for fall protection with some of the grades but also to separate the soccer from the baseball as well as the 6ft chain link fence around some of the uh soccer field along with the netting that I was mentioning previously behind the goals um there is also an 8ft chain link fence around the baseball field and that is located between the dugouts and the field and that is basically for safety of line drives and balls being hit on the baseball field itself I would like to note that the 4 foot is required because it's in a front yard and kind of the theme of what we've been talking about everything's in the front yard you won't see these fields or these fences from the right of way and again that Sunset Lane that small small piece of Frontage um that isn't actually used for Access or anything like that and we're way further away from Martinville um Road compared to the majority of fields that you can even see on this diagram to the east um due to the environmental constraints again uh we did relocate that drive aisle I just wanted to highlight that again and as part of the improvements for the field we have while not changing the Ada spaces or any of the parking we have included a path way now that goes directly from the Ada spaces as opposed to parking at the adaa having to go through the drive aisle and then access the fields there now is a sidewalk where my cursor is directly to the Ada spaces um and someone can access the parking and the Ada through that path circulate down south um to the southern field and there is Ada access which I believe was one of the board Engineers questions from those spaces to the top of the Pavilion we can certainly provide more grading information to make sure all those slopes are met and what we have done is the access now comes to the top of the Pavilion cuz part of the problem is the existing grand stand that's there has access to the bottom and typically people just get there stop stand and people that are actually trying to sit behind can't see the game so the thought is giving it a little bit more of a grand entrance you would enter from the rear of the grand stand and kind of typical to Stadium seating we will have designated Ada areas at the top of the grand stand for anyone in a wheelchair or that can't go down further into the grand stand uh now I'm going to go to the three that you see in front of you and these we'll call them uh 3D renderings and they're grandstand perspective renderings view one two and three and I'll go through exactly which one shows and these are basically 3D renderings of what the final grandstand construction will hopefully look like we have put also in the Landscaping you can see behind the grand stand you can see in this one specifically the player benches we were talking about on each side of the field with the smaller officiating one in the middle and those again are covered metal uh frames with plexiglass and the look as I'll go through the three you have in front of you the first one was more of an aerial view this one is almost as you're coming kind of down from the parking field and you look to your right this is what you would see for the grand stand so you see the flag that is going to be relocated The Pavilion at the top with which is going for like a natural look with some with some Stone base and a wood frame and then the grand stand itself would be uh stone look with uh block walls and then the third view is the Pavilion so again you won't have access to the seating area unless you go all the way to the top and you kind of walk through almost like a little bit of entrance if you've been to the pingry schools they have a lot of areas with plaques and historical things and um the intent is to be able to whether it's Hall of Fame plaques or things like that have some of those while you're entering the grand stand and also if there is bad weather have some cover for people to stand up top as opposed to maybe sitting in the rain so I think it's a nice look it almost gives it like an entrance into the grand stand not fully constructing a stadium but giving a little bit of that feel if you are going to a pingry soccer game the grand stand itself and I'm going to go back to the second view the grand stand itself just just to give you a little bit of the specs and dimensions will consist of six rows of seating constructed as almost like a layered wall system so it's not going to be metal bleachers it's going to be almost like a tiered wall system where people can actually sit on the walls themselves and not have an actual grandstand type feel with the old school metal bleachers um as part of our variances that are being requested we are requesting a variance for an 11t tall wall where only 8 ft is permitted that wall is essentially the front of the grand stand and that's located next to the boundary line but right behind the player seating area and the official seating area and really that 11 ft comes into play because those structures are about 7 and 1 12 to 8 ft tall and if we don't have a wall that's kind of raising the grand stand directly above that you wouldn't actually be able to see over it so the First wall is 11 ft that gives you good visibility to the field good visibility over the seating areas and then from there you would have six rows of tiered Wall Systems that are about a foot and a half each so the first one would be 11 ft you get above the seating area you can see the second field and then from there you're only going up about a foot and a half and it almost acts as the seating itself for the tiered system so again the variance is for 11 feet or 8 feet is permitted um May I just ask our professionals a question the the reason for the retaining wall height is really for the stability of the wall correct I'm not sure anything over 4ot is just is a wall that needs some sort of stability I'm not sure why 8 ft was limited normally they limit the height of a wall because it's too close to the property line don't want fall on I don't know what the r was I know instead of the exceeding you're allowed to just step it back a foot and then go up higher I it's one fo horizontal vertical so you could step it and have that wall for that one foot don't know that's an engineering thing don't knowf you from falling the whole distance in the wall by just stepping in so then my my question would be really then with everything that's sort of behind the wall does this add to the stability of the wall so that we don't have to worry really about it falling over it something you won't have to worry about W is going to be designed by Professional Engineers so you're not going have to worry about stability 11 foot walls are designed all 20 30 walls are designed so it's not a question of stability it's a question of I think Aesthetics and okay here 11 seems like be approprate I think so too I just wanted to clarify yep and even part of the thought process behind that was not only the visibility but the quicker we can get up in terms of not tearing and P pushing further back it keeps more of the vegetation behind in the wooded area and not have to kind of catch up quicker or disturb more area to make up that grade so what is behind or front of the wall is there a lot of soil is there lot of soil in front of wall or behind the wall so what what we're actually analyzing now there's some Geotech work going on it's actually a lot of rock so we're currently doing a geotechnical investigation of this hill now to see exactly what the stability of the rock itself is and how we are going to design to your point the stability of the wall and the entire grand stand is being structurally designed so not even just the front wall we're designing the front wall and all the way to the back to make sure the stability is there my question was uh are you thinking about in Landslide for the wall oh no basically this is almost at a at a high point so we're going to build it into the BM and then it actually starts dipping back down into the wooded area so we don't expect anything like that and what we're actually proposing I think will actually provide better stability than there is today um some of the dimensions for the grandstand just to give you overall scale um from the front of the grandstand through the six rows to where the Pavilion is is about 22 and 1/2 ft so not a gigantic structure but also getting as many seating areas and a nicer aesthetic look as we possibly can um from there there's a 6ot viewing area at the top and again some of that area will be designated for Ada um spaces and from that point The Pavilion will will be about 25 ft for the uh shelter area and then 5 ft behind that for sidewalk which is accessing it into the Pavilion What's the total seating this total seating so our capacity is around 450 and that's based yeah and the existing area just to give you scale um is about 380 and because if you've been to games there's kind of just people everywhere they're on the hills and things like that so a lot of this is to focus that it a little bit safer and bring the capacity more in a designed way as opposed to kind of people spread out throughout the area so wait so the seating is 450 but the additional area or the total capacity for the area you're saying the total capacity would be 450 that includes that grassy slope above the wall yes so we actually as part of this the grass areas are designed so you can access them and throw a blanket on the two grass areas both to the uh East I guess and the west of the uh grand stand so if you see in here to your question um you can actually access this grass area and throw a blanket down and that is factored into the capacity so I went to capacity as opposed to seaing so just the total number of people that can fit in this area is about 450 and the people that we saw in terms of just areas where they were watching games was almost about 380 so I think you could see it's a bigger area and a lot more defined and designed for people watching the game as opposed to spread out wherever want any anyone's kind of just going to throw a blanket and watch the game and and what are the barriers on the sides the safety barriers on the side of the um TI walls so along the entire Frontage there's fall protection so at the 11t wall there'll be basically a short fence or short short railing to for fall protection and then going up and down the steps we have railings as well and what's the most outer outside of the rail sorry this area here right this is for VA protection as well protction so it it it'll almost look like it'll be a little bit more aesthetically pleasing than the typical aluminum bleachers but because of the grade difference of that grass area it's a little bit more of a sturdy railing because people will lean on it and kind of watch the game from that spot as opposed to um the fall protection where it's just in case someone's falling off the wall any concessions no no nope okay all right okay can you can you get 450 people so that's basically the calculation of if we and there's a whole methodology which we can certainly present to the professionals but the capacity would be based on separation of people typically for seating like this and there's different equations that go into the grass area itself compared to the tiered walls and the seating so that's where we kind of get the 450 and not to say that we're trying to get 450 450 people here that calculation was more done to kind of show hey it's kind of existing now but I think it's a lot lot more organized and designed for it as opposed to what's there currently how many parkes you 400 total and as mentioned previously this won't change in terms of people going there what games are being played it's more just a facility that can handle it better than it currently is today I think it's you know you have multiple facilities there you have three or four or five soccer fields now yes if you had games all at once on all the fields then it would be very chaotic in that in the parking facilities yeah and it was uded to earlier in terms of the cost of parking but also the amount of area that it seems like it's not developable but or it seems like it is but a a majority of it is streams and wetlands and things like that so in terms of adding more parking it's something that I'm sure pingry would love to do it's just a very constrained site Park Lot go yep um are there this is probably from Mr wals but um do you ever have occasions where all of the fields are in use at once we do yeah and it's a zoo there's no other way to put it it's uh we try to get our facility staff to manage traffic control but there there's not much you can do people Park wherever they want day those things unun do you have any do you have any offsite parking that you can use besides the other soccer fields down the lot have on occasion like when we had a fireworks display we've worked with some of the local commercial places to see if we you know they could take the Overflow we really haven't used it we been manag to jam enough parking in there perfectly legally of course with the with the games of course people come for a game then they leave and come so it doesn't necessarily be those people aren't there all day they're going back and ex chall different areas works parking on the street correct nobody's parking on and for the big events we hire burnard PD as well which helps with um is this a good spot to stop it can be yes noting the time here yeah I will just Mark that so I remember where to pick up in the next meeting well done by the way thank you well presented thank you I appreciate it um so I think Miss keeper we're going to look for a date that we could carry the pingry applic you date that first application elar 106 going to happen on March 5th pardon me the first one on March 5th yes so is the suggestion to carry to March 5 I'm sorry so would it be your suggestion to carry it to March 5th that would be my suggestion pingry was March 5th work for you next meeting yes yes yes yes yes okay yes that right our deadline to act on this is uh May 8th 2025 Mr pardon the deadline for the bo to act is May 8th so we have plenty of time we yeah we're happy to give you whatever waiver of that I don't think we need any of this point don't want you lose any sleep back in January yeah signant am I'm just check just okay okay and and you have um one more Witness yes after we finish we have our plan pH AR if you have question we have question okay I won't put them on unless all right thank you great so it's carried out yeah I'll make the formal announcement Madam chair okay so this application of the pingry cor pingry Corporation aka the penry school is going to be carried to the board's uh March 5th 2025 meeting no further notice will be required either by publication or by mail or personal service uh 7:30 p.m. it'll pick we pick it back up right here in the municipal building so see you then thank you very much see you appreciate it thanks um okay any uh comments from Members any comments from well actually I'll make a I'll make a comment I just want to um thank Mr tank crey he's not here tonight but uh he was terrific to have on the board and did uh a lot of work over the last several years so I just want to thank him um for his service yeah he willon be missed yes he for sure is going to be missed but he is going on to do even more I think for our town which is terrific um and I think we are near getting um One new member and hopefully two new members uh shortly so um any I wanted to you I will not Avail for the meeting okay I will be col because I did last year and I figured since I made it last year I might it's actually my birthday I happy happy birthday I will have report I can try to get someone to sit here I just I don't know that the applicants War okay and how about for the penry application do you have any specific concerns there that you think you should have a no I did call and speak with okay to be honest I think that it's kind of a peace issue there's a lot of things that were not sorted out yet so I think the infrastructure they have store m is sufficient but the rationale for it is loose so I just want so I explain to him onard with all those things okay so when the board has a chance to review the other uh two applications and think a little bit more about penry obviously we can reach out to you before um the meeting and um once we're more informed we'll have a better idea on whether we think we're good without you or not right and I'll have reports for the application yes for sure okay that would be helpful and and uh you'll be available until when what date are you leaving just so in case the 4th through the 11th okay so we'll have the reports before then and if people want to give you a call they can thank you good luck and be safe um any other comments from staff yeah exactly okay motion to aurn motion