We got to slide downst hasn't even left yet. I know. Everybody's got me. Okay. Good evening everyone. We're going to call to order tonight's meeting of the Township of Bernard Zoning Board of Adjustment. The first item on the agenda
is the flag salute. So, if you can stand, please stand. To the flag of the United States of America and to the stands nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
In accordance with the requirement of the open public meeting law notice of this meeting of the board of adjustment of the township of Bernards was posted on the bulletin board in the reception hall of the municipal building collier lane basking richidge New Jersey. It was also mailed to the Bernardsville news whippid New Jersey or the corer news in
Bridgewater New Jersey and it was also filed with the township clerk all on January 9th of this year and it was mailed electronically to all those who had requested individual notice. The following procedure has been adopted by the Bernard's Township Board of Adjustment. There will be no new cases
heard after 10 o'clock tonight and there will be no new testimony heard after 10:30 tonight. Miss Keer, for the last time, can you do a roll call for us? Certainly. Chairwoman Janeers here. Dr. Aral, yes. Miss Bowman, here. Miss
Herrera here. Mr. Krauss here. Miss Kichi here. Miss Par here. Miss Silver has indicated she's unable to attend this evening. Miss Trap here. Uh Mr. Soi here. Mr. Quinn here. Mr. Schlly here.
And for the record, Miss Kefir is present. Madam Chair, you have a quum. You may proceed. Thank you, Miss Kefir. Um at this time, I'd like to entertain a motion to excuse the absence of uh Miss Silver, who let us know that she could
not begin. So moved. Second. Thank you. Just get that down. All in favor? Opposed? Abstain. Thank you. Thank you. Um, next on the agenda is the approval of minutes, which is um 5A. That was
from the regular session of April 9th, 2025. They had been circulated in advance of this meeting. I'm sure everybody had a chance to look through them. Are there any comments or suggestions or motions to approve as drafted? Madam Chair, I'll make a motion to
approve the minutes as of um April 9th as drafted. Thank you, Miss Bman. I'll second that. Thank you, Miss Pop. I'll make I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of May 7th as
well. You need to do a voice vote on the people eligible for this would be Miss Bowman, Miss Kar, Miss Trap, and Chairwoman Juners. All in favor? I opposed, those who are eligible
obviously stated. Thank you. Thank you. Um, next, uh, is the approval of minutes for our May 7th regular session meeting. Are there comments or suggestions on that or motions to approve as drafted? I'll make a motion to approve as draft. Thank you, Mr. Per. I'll second. Thank
you, Mr. Press. Uh, Dr. A and Mr. Silver. Uh, he is the only one that is ineligible to vote this evening on these minutes. All in favor? I will be abstaining. Thank you. Thank you.
Um, we do have one resolution tonight that uh I would like to read into the record if I could. This is a resolution honoring Cindy Kefir for her dedicated service for uh to Bernard's Township. Whereas the board of adjustment of Bernard's Township desires to
acknowledge the many years of service of devoted service given to this board and its predecessors by Cynthia Kefir. Whereas Cynthia Cynthia Kefir began serving as the temporary interim secretary to both the planning board and the board of adjustment in January 2017,
stepping in during a period of transition in December 2016. And whereas she was officially appointed as the full-time planning board and board of adjustment secretary on March 17, 2017, bringing organization efficiency and an
unprecedented approach to her responsibilities. And whereas during her eight years of service in Bernard's, Cynthia has handled over 250 board of adjustment applications and over 50 planning board applications. And we're not going to mention how many meetings
um and all the applications with diligence and precision in ensuring consistency and adherence to proper procedures. And whereas her qualifications include a bachelor of arts in communications and US history from Ruckers College, Ruckers University
as well as certifications from the Rucker Center for Government Services in Planning Board, zoning board secretary and zoning official training. And whereas Cynthia previous experience includes a service as a land use assistant in the city of Summit from
2016 to 2017 where she functioned as planning board secretary and administrative assistant to the board of adjustment and as secretary for the planning board and board of adjustment for the township of Longill from 2013 to 2016.
And whereas her professionalism, meticulous attention to detail, and commitment to excellence has made her an invaluable asset, and her contributions will be very difficult to replace. Now therefore, be it resolved by the board of adjustment of Bernard's Township on
this fourth day of June, 2025, that the board formally recognize Cynthia Kefir for her diligent and distinguished public service with this board and its pre predecessors and for her untiring dedication to the residents of this town
of Bernards. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Is there a motion? Oh, do we have to motion? Okay. I would like to make a motion to adopt the resolution as drafted. I'll second that. Thank you.
All in favor? I Thank you, Miss Keeper. Thank you. I'm just speechless. It has been a pleasure working with you. You could always come back. It's been a pleasure having
always come back. Okay. Um I will make um an announcement at this time for those who are here tonight to hear um case 6B which is
ZB25009 Nicole Rosa. That case will not be heard tonight. So, if you're here to hear that case or make a comment or ask questions about it, that will be delayed to um another evening. Yeah. Is Is anyone here for that application? The applicants. You guys want to Oh, you're here. Yeah. You guys want to set You
want to come up? I'll just let you know what's going on. Sure. So, um the municipal land use law requires that you guys have to include in the notice of the hearing, you have to identify the property like by address or preferably block and lot, but address um and you
guys didn't do that. So, for that reason, we can't hear your case tonight. It's just like a technicality that prohibits us from hearing. Yeah. The notice has to be valid and it's invalid for us to hear it. So, we're going to need to delay the application. Mer, do
you know when we could um hear that? That's the next meeting. Our very next meeting is Jul. Outstanding. Okay. Miss Keeper will um they have to renotice anyway. Yeah, you guys will
have to re have to complete. Yeah. Very. Sorry. It's just legally even if we were to hear your case and approve tonight, it would be invalid. So, we have an August meeting. Okay. Well, I guess we'll figure that out after. Sorry, folks. Just
Okay. Well, we will hear uh the completeness and public hearing for Paskki which is ZB25008. Is that applicant here tonight? Yes, here we will hear that one. Want to come up to the mic, please?
Madam Chair, while they're approaching, I'll just point out uh these folks didn't notice properly, so we can't hear their cases. Congratulations. Thank you. It was uh sent by certified mail to owners of property within 200 ft of subject property on May 13th and also published in the Burners News on May 15th. The content was sufficient to hit
all the legal requirements. So the court has the jurisdiction to hear the case. With that, what do you guys have present? Three of you testifying this evening, correct? Yes. All right. So, I'm going to need to swear three of you in along with our two board professionals. All five of you please raise your right hands for me. All five of you swear or affirm that the
testimony you're about to provide the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, be great. sworn. Excellent. Thank you. Welcome. Thank you. Um so we understand that you're here to um ask about a variance for the pool location, which we do care
a lot of those cases. So um the board is familiar with your application, but do you want to um take us through your project so we understand a little bit? Real quick, if we could just have each of you identify yourselves. Sure. Um Ryan Paskki, homeowner. Yes. his wife
Erica Adam Gorga of the GD group uh and consulting group uh I represent Mr. or Mrs. is that with respect to the pool construction uh as well as the addition that you know there was a couple notes
in question okay okay Mr. Powaskki and Miss Dart again your address is 16 St. White basketball. Correct. And sir, I'm sorry. What your name one more time for me? Uh, Adam Gordo with the GD group. Just spell your last name for G O R G A.
Okay. And uh are you an engineer or you just uh I'm the I'm the builder as well as the engineers consultant. Okay. For. So you're not you're not a PE essentially. Correct. Okay. Fair enough. I'll provide testimony uh as a limited
client. Understood. Um can we get your business address, please? Yes. It's 271 Route 46 West Suite G208, Fairfield, New Jersey 0700. Thanks, sir.
Sorry. That's okay. So, do you wanna um would you like to take us through your project? I'm not sure if uh if if your witness is going to take us through that project or do you want us to ask question? I'll let Okay, we'll go to the swimming pool. We
have a swimming pool construction for a common variance here on on culdeac. The swimming pool does not lie behind the rear of the home. Common one here. We've been here a few times for it. Um standard construction. It was a
important design fact to be able to see the swimming pool from the kitchen window as well as the great room. Um, which is why we chose not to put it60 ft deeper into the backyard. Um, we also built an addition that was a
separate permit that is completely closed out permit-wise. We have all of our finals. It's complete. Uh, Morris County Soils has also finalized their portion of that which obviously have them back for this portion if granted a
bar into the apartment. Okay. So, there is a compliant location, but you said uh how far was it from the home? I believe it was uh 110. I mean I get a little different on
AutoCAD very close to the wetlands line which another design aspect in this project was trying to stay as far away from that line as possible. If you've all seen from the pictures provided um it does not look very much like wetlands
in this property. The the applicant purchased the home like this. They did not do any restorations. Um, but it is all on. So, we want to stay very far away from that line to avoid any issues with the D and storm water management.
So, it's house number 26 that our house 26 is the non-compliant lot, right? Okay. So, from where our addition was built, you can't see house 26 from my house. So, it's just a back piece of land
there. Okay. Um, you mentioned the pictures. Who took the photos that you provided with the application? Uh, my office. Your office took them. Do you know when you took them? Um, the pictures were taken right before the addition. Um, the covered
patio edition. Okay. So, um, what we're looking at does not look like the property looks right now. Um, I would say no. Well, from two of the views, no. Um, can you take us through those photos? Sure.
When did you take them? You said uh approximately like calendar wise, December. December. August 24th. Yeah. Okay. Must have been a nice day. No, it was it was it's like August or September. might have been preconstructed.
These are the pictures we used for that. Yes. 2024. Yes. Looks the same besides the addition. Okay. So, top left we have a side view which is uh posterior of driveway.
Um as of work completed today referring to this photograph. Yes. Correct. Sorry. That's looking towards lot 28 with the playground. Playgrounds, correct? Yeah, that's a view towards lot 28 from the side. Right beneath that is a picture
looking straight back to the back of the property. Picture to the bottom right is the picture looking at the house from where the Yeah, twothirds back in the lot. When we look at that bottom picture uh
on the left, correct? Where is lot 26? It's to your right, man. To the right. To the right. Yeah, but it's like way to the right. Okay. Yeah. It's not visible to them. Yep.
We all have a second page of pictures. Okay. So, the second page, top left, is again from 2/3 back looking at the house where the pool would go. The bottom beneath that is where the pool would be looking to the rear of the yard and the
bottom right is looking at the house from where the pool would be. So on the left side there's trees and the right side there's very tiny trees. Is that true? Like two foot? No tiny trees? No, they're they're 20 feet high.
They're evergreen. Looking at right here where this tall tree is, there's some here. Isn't that the What's that? No, you're right. No, no, he's looking at this one. Oh, yes, they were small. They were 15
feet tall. Yeah, that picture might have been older. Well, past that tall tree that's standing up, there's smaller shrubs, right? Those are the Oh, those are green giants. Those are green giants. Okay, so they're tall now. They were in that picture because you're so
far away. They're still 9 ft in that picture. Yeah. I mean, when I bought them, they were 8 ft. So, I'm just This is 9 foot, you're saying? Those three little Yep. And there's a row. There's actually 10 of them there. Because the the neighbor has a chainlink
fence there that you can't see. And the house that we see to the right is lot number, correct? Yes, that's lot number 30. Can you describe the screening? Who who can see your pool based upon where you're suggesting the pool will be?
Nobody. Only myself. Only our lot. So, lot 30, our neighbor has a pool. There's uh those are white pines up there. Um and she also has shrubbery in front of that. And then on the left side of my property towards lot 28, there are um
blue spruce trees that are 30 feet tall. Okay. And there's one go all the way back to the back of your property. Like where do they stop? The blue spruces don't go all the way back. They go um right to where that 29 is. And then there are large tall trees there that
you can see on the bottom uh left bottom right picture. So then you have 50 foot trees there. Okay. Thank you. Did you receive a copy of um Mr. Slice our our township planners memo? Yes.
Which one it is? You guys willing to comply with all the recommendations? Yes, absolutely. We have no objection. No objections. millimeter. Exactly. Are you going to have lighting in the pool? Yes. Inside the swimming pool. Inside, not outside.
Uh, we do not have anything proposed. If there are anything proposed, it's going to be the small 12vt low path lights directed down facing downwards. Yep. Absolutely. Mr. S, is there anything else in your
memo? numbers four through 10. Y number three was just asking to discuss the screening. Item six will be taken care of non dietmacious earth filter. It'll be a cartridge filter. So we'll be able to
comply on it on on all items. Okay. And um you as applicants uh agree to utilize the best m management practices. Yes. Um for discharging pool water. Yes. You spoken to any of your neighbors
about this? Are they Yes. They are. Y. Did you hear any concerns from them at all? They our neighbor in lot 28 asked about a raised she just wanted to know what kind of water feature we were doing. So it's a very small just spill over for she just wanted to see if we
were doing anything else. Total of 18 in. Yeah. Any other questions from the board? Yes. Mr. Quinn. Um, any particular uh points you want to cover in your uh memo? Yeah, I assume you also received a copy of Mr.
Quinn's memo. Yeah. Item two, I I wasn't sure what the purpose cover was going to be because there's two different numbers on the uh what we did was we included the addition although it's not part of this variance application because it was
so recent. We did design this as one and then separate the application. So the new like the covered patio is included in that number. Yes. And that's why it's high. And unfortunately I can't separate leaders. So No, no, that's fine. That's
fine. I I just that makes sense. I just wanted to um So the other thing too when he does this, he doesn't have to include water surface area. Correct. There's a couple of notes here that he has to address the void number.
Yeah. Void ratio. Um Correct. We find no objection to any of Mr. Quinn's items. Did you also receive a copy of the uh environmental commission's memo? April 28.
Yes. I think May 19. Oh, May 19th. May 19. Yes. May 19th. Yes. Oh, I'll hit the uh Yeah, I'll be the environmental commission representative
here. Okay. Um yeah, did you guys review this memo from the environmental commission? Yes. Yes. Okay. Um so they often offer recommendations, potential conditions. Um, I noted that they wanted you guys to revise the plans to show the drainage area going into the seage pit. Uh,
employ best management practices during site work, storm water, storm water best management practices during site work as part part of final regrading. Implement best management practices to reserve and protect trees. Any trees being removed? No. Don't think so. Um, make a good faith best effort to manage storm water
runoff by planting native trees and shrubs where possible. Uh, same thing using native hardwood species. Uh we talked about the best measurement practices for discharge of pool water and uh they wanted you to be aware of the potential for inground tank lead as
really seems like a newer house. Yeah, it's built. We did do a sweep when we started the site work for the original excavation. Gotcha. Okay. So we talked about a lot coverage. Um any would you guys want to comply with all their recommendations? Yes, absolutely.
No objection. Thank you. Are there additional questions from the board? Um just the um the environmental commission notes that two trees are to be removed. We said that that's incorrect.
Those were removed with uh the covered patio permit that was filed in October and completed when was it complete, guys? March. March. Yes. End of February. Those were two six-inch trees that lied in the existing patio. more of a shrub than an
actual tree. Thank you. Um, are there any questions from the public? You have to come up to the mic, please. And just as you come up to the mic, please and just as a reminder, this is
um questions based upon what we just heard, not comments for the application. We'll get to that if you have something to say. Okay. Um, I live on name and address, please. Uh, Kathleen Divine and I live at 160 Smithfield Court.
Is your um is your lot located on this map where we see it? It's it's hidden. It's the bottom those bottom duplexes are all hidden. Okay. So So are you in that row that would be the 30s 35 36 37 is Yeah. Yeah. Those rows there. Okay.
It's kind of hidden away. That's okay. Okay. Um my questions? Yes. Okay. Cool. Um I'm just concerned about um if it rains any kind of water if the way you're digging if there's going to be any kind of overflow coming towards our
properties where we get flooding in our basement because I was concerned about how you going to dig and maybe all the rain and everything would come in our direction. Okay. So your question is about uh drainage from their property where the water flows. Right. Right. With all the digging I'm stick to
questions. Okay. Okay. I think that's one of the reasons why we're here is because we're trying Can right into the microphone. Sorry. That's one one of the reasons we're here for the variance is to try to keep the pool as close to my house as possible to avoid any drainage runoff towards the back rear of my
property. Um that's yeah that's why that's why we're applying for the variance. So there's no improvement of drainage but there's no change of drainage really because of that. Uh I I'd like to step in here if you have seepage pits being
installed uh as long as we comply with the soil testing which we will do um as well as a perimeter drain. And what a perimeter drain does is the patio which creates the runoff that you're speaking of. It catches it as soon as the end of the patio right right towards the edge. So
we have calculated in our storm water management numbers uh the entire patio as well as the addition which is a lot of the first comments on these two uh recommendations. So we are set on a 6 in
an hour storm. So you should have zero increase in runoff. So better maybe more simplified way of asking none of there's going to be no additional drainage runoff onto her lot as a result of this project. Correct. Does that answer your question? Yes.
Yes. Suppose there is after it's built. If you if you want to make a comment on it, right? We have to right this period right now is just questions based on the testimony we've heard. Sure. These legal ease these guys make us follow here. So
if you have other comments for against the application we will hear them tonight. Okay. Okay. I was just concerned we're going drainage questions based upon what you heard tonight for the applicants. Um I mean I'm not really understanding fully where you said I I should not expect any drainage. I'm not
really the terms that you're using. So I just trust you said you're giving me the right information. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Mr. Quinn, do you want to add anything? Yeah, actually the way the drainage runs towards the left doesn't run
directly to the back. My neighbor's You see that blue line there? That's a stream that intercepts comes off their property. So any feeling dry overflow at I don't see
how you may run off from your lot. No. And I doubt you're going to see any pattern in the backyard is not change. Okay. I was concerned because it's going to be deco dug up. So I wasn't sure if
it was going to start like flowing towards maybe I'm not sure if my property is lower than theirs. you're lower than theirs and they come down. So I can't speak for that in terms of how you relate to theirs. All I can say is it looks from what I can see and I read
these maps a lot drainage runs lot and hits that stream. Thank you. Any other questions for the applicants? I I have one. Yes. Um the
that you're collecting around the patio, is that being directed back up to the street or just into drywalls on the rear of the property? No, that's staying that's staying on property. It is staying on propert. That's staying on property using dry. Okay. Correct. And you've done park tests that show
that this will work with this property. Yeah. When we when we excavate for the the sepage we'll perform all testing at Mr. Quinn. They haven't test and sometimes the comment is turn out to be notic they would have to
design somebody. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions from the public? Okay. Any comments? Do you have anything else for us? Any comments from
the public for against this application? This is your time if you want to say anything that you want to say. We won't cut you off. Okay. What the future's going to what's going to happen in the future? Okay. Seeing none, no, no further
comments. Turn it over to the board. Okay. Can I give us a summary? Yeah, sure. So, it's relatively straightforward. Applicants are seeking one variance. the pool location. The proposed swimming pool would not be to the rear of the dwelling on adjacent lot 26
bottom corner the screen over there. Um that's the only variance to my knowledge. They've stipulated to comply with all the comments in Mr. Schwed May 30th, Mr. Quinn's memo also May 30th and the environmental commission's memo
dated May 19th. And I didn't pick up anything else hearings as far as stipulations and conditions go. All right. That's it. Terrific. Thank you very much. Okay. Um, does anyone want to make any comments uh or uh deliberations on this
uh application or move to make a motion on this application? Um, I'll jump in. Thank you, M. Um um I think the I I drove by the property and um I actually turned my car around
in your driveway. So um I was able to sort of peek in the back. Um I did not go up and walk in the back though. I was a non-stoper. Um from from where I could see I think that is very well screened. It is a very
long and narrow property. Um I I don't any problem with this application whatsoever. Uh I think it's a beautiful addition to the house. Um and I think it'll be a beautiful addition to the neighborhood. Uh I see this as a C2
variance that there's um there there's no detriment. There's there's no um it doesn't affect uh the intent of the master plan. In fact, I would say that it it um helps to enhance uh the neighborhood and the house and uh
therefore move the benefits of the master plan. Um so I would be in favor of the project. Um do you want me just to make a motion? Yeah. Uh so I would make a motion to deem the application complete and to ask
our uh board attorney to draft or to approve the application and to ask our board attorney to draft a um resolution memorializing uh the board's decision should we all agree. And uh with all of
the stipulations uh uh in in each of the uh review letters and and uh testified here this evening. Thank you, Miss Bowman. I will second that.
A little clumsy, but No, I thought it could be also one C1 and C2. I agree with you on C2 C1 just because it's a it's curvy. So, you know, we're going to have the problem of where to place it. So, right.
So, so there's a so there's there's a there's a little hardship in um obviously if you wanted to comply it would be further back. It doesn't make any sense in my opinion to to put it back. So in that regard I you could look at it as a hardship. So sure C1 and C2.
Okay. Miss Kefir, Dr. Ar. Yes. Miss Bman. Yes. Miss Herrera. Yes. Mr. Krauss. Yes. Madichi. Yes. MAR. Yes, chairwoman of engineers. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Good luck with your project.
Thank you very much. Um, as we mentioned, we are not hearing case 6B um, tonight on the agenda, which will take us to 6C, uh, Driller, which is ZB25007. I think, uh, we're going to
lose Mr. Krauss, Miss Kefir. He's recusing himself from this application. Madam chair, while everyone's getting set up, I'll just point out for the record, I did read their notice, they did it properly as well. uh the sent to owners property with two subject property on May 14th. Also published in
the verville news on May 22nd, both more than 10 days in advance of tonight's hearing. All the content was sufficient. Thus, in my legal opinion, the board has the jurisdiction to hear and decide the case. Thank you. My pleasure. I'll let Mr. Zel do an intro before we start anybody. We're ready. Good evening, madam chair,
members of the board, board professionals, Frederick Zeli Postpollock, on behalf of the applicants. This is an application by Bruce and Stephanie Ducken Miller regarding 17 Beaver Creek Court. It's block 4601 lot 18 located in your R1 zone. It's an application for variance
relief for a black metal double driveway gate hinged to masonry entry columns flanked by masonry walls running briefly parallel to the gates then returning toward the street and meeting vegetative hedges running along the streetscape with decorative masonry street columns matching the entry columns. All the
proposed columns would have a gray stucco finish with granite caps. The proposed gates would be 6 feet tall at the hinges and taper down to 4t tall at their center meeting point. The entry columns would be 7 feet tall and the masonry walls and decorative street columns would not be more than 4 feet
tall. Variance relief is required for departure from section sorry. Can you say that last part again? What would not be higher than four feet tall? The uh vegetative hedges and the decorative columns within them. Is that forever? Like not higher than four feet. Uh well,
if the board were inclined to want us to do it, I'm sure we could have landscapers take care of that. Uh variance relief is required for departure from section 21-16.2A of your ordinance which limits front yard fences and walls to 4 feet in height and which further provides that
fences and walls shall be constructed so that at least 50% thereof is open. In this case, portions of the proposed gates as well as their supporting masonry entry columns would exceed 4t in height. Uh and the masonry walls and lower portions of the gates are solid as opposed to being 50% open. Finally, if
the board were to consider that the vegetative hedges would constitute walls, uh, it may also deem them to be less than 50% open and requiring relief for that. I have just two witnesses this evening. Applicant Bruce Ducken Miller and Kathy Muller, our
engineer. And unless anyone has questions for me, I'd ask that they be sworn in. Get everybody once all four. Hello. Okay. All four of you swear affirms the testimony about the truth. The whole
truth doesn't truth. So I'll be I will affirm. Good evening, Mr. J Miller. Good evening all. Good evening. Thank you for hearing our uh reasonable request. Just for the record, would you start by stating your name and full address? I'm Bruce Duck Miller. live at
17 Beaver Creek Court. Actually, Far Hills address, but it is Bernard's. And how long have you lived there? Uh, approximately 5 years ago, we bought the house there. And who is we? Which one do you reside? Um, my wife and I. And, uh, we still have one
daughter at home. The other five have gone. Your wife would be co-licant Stephanie. Correct. That's correct. That is correct. Okay. But you're going to do all the talking. Is that the Okay, I'll try. It's not always that way.
I'm going to show you a packet of photographs that the board has in their possession already. I'm just going to ask you to go one by one, tell the board what each photograph shows, and please confirm uh that it's still accurate in the way it appears subject to seasonal changes.
Just one at a time. Okay. This photograph, which I assume you have, you give us one second. Okay. was in the original packet, right? Look at this photograph. That's it. First photograph.
For the record, I took those photographs, all of them in the packet shortly before the application was filed and they are accurate in what I was seeing as I took them. Yeah, this would be a recent photograph. We've been uh doing a bit of work on the uh driveway. Actually, when we moved in,
it needed uh a lot of help, and we've got to the point where we're ready to do it. Um, and the idea was to uh redo the whole driveway and also get a uh a um fence in the front of sorts and
and a uh gate. Want to go to the next picture, please? Next picture. Uh that's the actual entrance to the driveway with the current uh pillars. Um I don't know exactly how tall they
are, but they're probably five plus with the uh light. Next picture also the entrance of the uh property very similar. And is this how they look now? Or is it rellandscape?
This is the land the rellandscape. These bushes here are will be changed. I believe you have a um drawing of all the landscape bushes that um are are in the
plan. That middle tree uh is one we're definitely want to keep. We did get rid of a lot of other bigger trees that were nearing the end of their life. We got a permit and got them gone. Um, not that I really like to see them go, but uh, I've had experience with
them before. They're 25 years old, and I had another property where Hurricane Sandy took care of them all. So, uh, we taken them down, and we have a lot more. There's a lot of many, um, lot of vegetation going around. This does not show anything new
there. Again, the next picture is straight on on the driveway going towards the house. Shows the tree and um actually this is probably about 2 3 weeks ago because there actually are a lot of plantings starting from the house
coming back that are already in place. It's starting to look superb. And the last picture, different angle of the house shows the whole house from the uh other side there.
Is that from the culdeac angle? That is yeah, if you're coming from the back end of the culdesac, that would show the house on the left as you're approaching the uh ent the end of the street, the the
entrance to the other road, the T. That looks like all the pictures. And next, I'm going to hand you uh two computerated computerenerated uh renderings. uh and ask you to take us through those. Tell us what they're depicting and please
confirm that uh they fairly depict what you're proposing. Obviously, they might not be exact. Um just please confirm that this is generally what you're proposing. Okay. Board has these as well from the more recent submission.
Okay. You see uh number one. Mhm. That is uh the uh beautiful design we are that has been proposed. Um it shows the uh columns that are that's what we're requesting the
variance for. They're a little taller than 4 foot. I believe they're around six. And the gate swoops down, but it is also I think around six. The other um wall the other walls are all four and I believe someone mentioned before about
uh keeping the hedges at four feet. We will uh we will plan on keeping them at 4 feet. We got a good landscaper who uh likes to keep working as long as we pay them. Um, one of the reasons for this, uh,
little extra height, um, my son, uh, I have three three boys, three girls. One of my sons lives in Warren about five, six miles away, and he got broken into, uh, about a year and a half ago. And
um they stole two of his vehicles, high-end vehicles, and uh they were in the house at 2:00 a.m. from the uh records. I'm just thankful my son never came downstairs, but these folks were in the house looking for keys and they got
grabbed the vehicles and went. Um it's kind of instilled a little fear in our family and uh that's I don't know, that's just my reasoning for making sure we have a little height. It kinds of gives a psychological and physical uh barrier to these clowns who
uh they were they were floating around. A helicopter was looking for them in uh in this area actually a year ago. But um that's the reason we wanted just a little height extra. Um I actually used to live in
um also in Bernard's on uh Mer Road. I don't know if you're familiar 116 Mer um Swan Gate they call it. And we had I actually went over there today and just measured the gates just to because it kind of came to mind that there were actually eight and a half on the uh
pillars and six and a half on the gate. So there are such things in uh Bernards but we're not asking that high. Bruce the image that you sh first okay so that shows the gate itself and then take us to the next one
please. Uh the next image is uh just a little shot farther back showing the uh house and the basically what it will look like when it's finished. There'll be room enough room enough off the road for a car to come in and actually be off
the road and the gates can open. Um looks beautiful. What can I say? The gates open towards the house or towards the street? I would think I actually haven't asked that question myself, but I would think they'd open towards the house. That that'd be a no-brainer. If
not, I'm making sure if they weren't, they are now. Yeah. Yes. Uh you've already indicated that you would agree if there were approval it could be conditioned upon keeping the hedge at the foot. Yeah, certainly. Not
a problem. I have no further questions for Mr. So the hedges can be 4 feet and that makes you feel safe and comfortable. Is there any particular reason that the columns can't also be 4 feet and the
gate going across be 4 feet? Is there a reason that they have to be six feet? Um in my view for what I think if that matters. Um, I think uh not to mention that it only looks better with the little
swooping, but I think psychologically it'll keep these and the width width of the uh hedges at 4 feet. They'll be wider. I mean, some of these guys are good at the high jump and long jump, but uh
um I don't know. I just I just feel it's a good psychological barrier to prevent people from coming in. Just to be clear, the only columns that are too high are the ones at the actual Yeah, exactly. It's strictly the ones that are holding the gate, right? And
those are seven feet, not six feet. Correct. But what I'm asking is if if you feel comfortable having hedges that are 4 feet, why would you not feel comfortable to also have the columns be 4 feet and the gate across be 4T? I mean, not even going into the fact that
everything is supposed to be 50% open. I'm going to leave that aside for now. But what is the issue with just having everything in compiance as far as the height? Is it purely aesthetics? I mean, if it's four feet at some point, I don't think it's going to deter anyone that
just part of the gate happens to be higher. I just don't think it's going to have that impact. Yeah, I think psychologically it would, but um not to mention it does look better. I don't know. I don't know what you folks think on the looks even but
and just to make sure I understand the the plan correctly. So it's a 4ft hedge but then it's also a 4ft wall that leads to the seven foot pillar and correct gate. Yeah. The 4ft wall the 4ft
wall and hedge would have some thickness to it. The gate does not. Right. Yeah. Okay. Hence, I think it's better a little height to it. Okay. It said in the description that the that was the big change was the the 4ft wall that
that would be roughly 35 ft long. So, is that 35 ft to each side of the gate or is it like 17 and a half? Miss Müller can address that when she gives the engineer. Yeah. Um, sorry, I don't know the exact dimensions. We'll get to that.
Are there additional uh questions for Mr. Mr. Den Miller, are there any questions from the public for Mr. Draen Miller's testimony? Just Just as Nope. Just No. Hang on one second. No, hang on one second. We're going to do this one at a time. If you
have a question based upon what you've heard now, now is the time. It's not the time for comments. We will hear everyone's comments whether they're for or against the application. But as of right now, we have to be very specific for questions based upon only what we
have just heard. Do you have questions? I have questions. Okay, come on up. No, no, hang up. One, one at a time. So, thank you. Your name? My name is Daniel Kerry. Okay. And your address? And my wife Maria and I live at 32 Beaver Creek Court. Okay. Is that pictured on that
map for us? Do you see your home or can tell us where you are? Yes, I do. Although um we did not receive a certified uh mailing regarding this. Fortunately, my neighbor Dan Sudler uh conveyed that he had received a mailing
but I am within 200 ft. Yes. Hang on one second. Yes. Okay. Bear with me one here right now. It has to be a question. Okay. Why did I not receive a certified mailing? Thank you. We're going to look into that for you. One second.
Yeah, we're going to check that list for you. Hang on one second. And which was your address on on that map as you go in from Minebrook. Mhm. On the third house on the left. Okay. So, kind of diagonal from Ducker Millage to
towards the correct. Okay. We see 32 Beaver Creek is on the list. I see. Yes. Certified mail receipt, too. Okay. So, you are on the notice list and we did review it. So, do you want to comment on that? Yes, sir. Ask I I can't speak to whether or not you receive it or not, but I I can at least confirm based on
what's been provided. The applicant did send it to you and they sent it to you on time. Okay. We I we did not receive it. Um I don't know. Did you get a return receipt? Do you want to address that how that works? So we actually don't keep track of it because the statute only require
Yeah. So frankly I'm the only one here that knows the fact is I did not receive it. That's right. Understood. Okay. We're going to ask questions about the application. So a question. Have you had any breakins at your home that you're worried about that this fence would help
you? Uh we haven't had any breakins yet, but um Okay. Judging on my uh on what's around in the area, I just want to be careful. We have beefed up our security and cameras.
Good. Um it looks like an extremely large driveway. How many cars can you park in that front driveway? I don't know. We actually have four
cars. There's three of us. Um, occasionally we have visitors and um, you might have more cars in there. Um, and I've seen other occasions with other neighbors have cars along the road
beyond. But don't you think this driveway is far larger than perhaps all the other driveways combined on Beaver Creek Court? I believe I'm going to object because the various application has nothing to do with I I agree. I agree. So I'm concerned. Are you
considering mixed use behind this rather large wall? Uh, no, absolutely not. Okay. Um, my uh youngest daughter, for the record, is going to get married this year, but I have six kids and uh I love having them back. So, I have I'll have
uh 12 kids eventually, not to mention grandkids. So, we enjoy having the rest of them. That's all. Would you say that the wall going along Beaver Creek Court would take up roughly onethird of our entire street? I have not calculated that. Well,
looking at the picture, wouldn't you estimate that that's easily onethird of our entire street with a solid wall? Uh, maybe one sixth. Would you agree that this is going to completely change the look and feel of our neighborhood?
I I don't know what to say. I If Have you considered what it might look like to your neighbors? given the fact that there's been 11 months worth of a massive driveway project going on. Yeah, the the driveway
project was not my uh the timing was not my um my choice. This could have be done quite quickly, but the winter hit us. Would you admit it's a massive undertaking so far, even without this wall and gate? The driveway. The
driveway question. That's okay. I I I like my neighbors. It's all right. the drive. As long as we're on the other side of the wall, I think no, the driveway is We heard an objection. So, hang on one second. Okay. I'm hearing an objection from your attorney, but I'm hearing not objection from you, sir. So,
the driveway is the same size as it was before. Okay. Before you guys go any further, I just want to remind everybody here, we're here to talk about the proposed columns and the gate and the hedges. The driveway, frankly, is irrelevant to what the board can consider right now because that was I would assume it was approved by some
kind of permit approval at the level. We're only here for the gate and the as I just say the hedges and the columns. It's actually slightly smaller than it was before. What is going to be underneath the vegetative walls? Underneath the walls? Yeah, they're
solid, are they not? I believe there'll be some dirt. I don't No, underneath in this in this rendering. Sorry, sir. Which which rendering are you talking about? Maybe this one. These these fantasy renderings. They're they're AI
driven. Question about this one. We got questions. Question about how high would the ladder that I'd have to climb to look across and over give me the vantage point that you generated in this AI image.
They're 20 foot ladder. Four foot high. No, but to look over this wall, wouldn't I see the wall from the street? You could stand there and look over. If I was Shaquille O'Neal, I'm not. I'm wondering what's underneath this
vegetative material. Is that solid? Is it brick? Is it stone? It's all It's all shrubs. It's a hedge. But so is this not solid? No, it's a hedge.
Where does it end? Uh there's a column every 20 ft approximately. How many total columns? Our engineer will go into all. Yeah, the engineer could answer. Yeah, that might be a better question for the engineer. You'll have an opportunity to ask those questions. Okay. I know some of my neighbors have
questions as well. We'll give them an opportunity. Okay. Is there anyone else who has questions for Mr. Chuck Miller? Okay. Mike Henderong at 41 Beaver Creek Court. So, where do you live? Lot 20 on that on the end of the culde-sac to the right. Right. Uh 41 41 Beaver Creek Court.
Correct. Okay. That's right at the end of the culde-sac. Correct. On the right hand side is lot 20 I think you see. Yes. Yeah. So um question. So again I'm just learning about the ordinance as well too. So sir before you ask because the burners township the list don't give property owners names. So could you just
spell your last name for me? Sure. H E N D E R L O N G. Um what type of vegetation I guess are you going to put in this fence which effectively right from my understanding it's going to create a solid wall right for people not to look into your
property. Right. So, what's what the what type of vegetation? Privet or um I believe the engineer can answer those. Something the deer won't eat and the bears won't go through. You've had bears, have you? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, bear is going to get through anything.
But, um so that's a concern of mine because if we go and it gets approved if there's 4 foot. So, my question is Okay. Okay. Good. So, my my question is who's going to monitor the fact that you're going to keep this at four feet? Is that the town? is that you're just be a good
citizen and not have it go to 12. Uh if not the board attorney. Okay. Sir, I can speak to that. The applicant did stipulate that they would as a condition of approval they would condition this if that makes any sense. The pedest would be in violation of the approval. The zoning officer would come
out and site them. Okay. That's the mechanism and they did stipulate to that. All right. They agreed to keep that. Okay. Thanks. Is there another question from Mr. Tucker Miller? Okay, come on up. Hi, Maria Kerry, 32 Beaver Creek
Court. You're worried about someone breaking in. Everything is 4 feet except for those two huge pillars that's going to have a seven They're seven foot with a tall gate. Why can't someone just go
over the 4ft wall or your 4 foot hedges? Why then do you need that big tall pillar with a big with the gate? I don't um I mean they they could jump
over anywhere, but I believe I believe if it's a higher thing, it's a deterrent. You're going to have a massive massive 4 foot wall. with hedges. Excuse me. Can I ask you to come a little closer to the microphone? And you too, Mr. Dreameler, sorry you
have to share a microphone, but it's we're recording it and it's important that we hear it. So, so I I I I don't understand if everything is 4 foot and then you have these tall pillars with lighting and big gates, someone breaking into your house
will go around to the 4ft side. So, why is all this even necessary? I don't know. I I believe it's uh I believe it's a deterrent. That's that's all I can say. I've mentioned it's a psychological deterrent.
Um I've been around the block a lot and dealt with quite a few people and uh had uh some nasty things happen over the years. But the other thing we're just trying to be protective, that's all. And the other thing is, you know, we have sewer and we have well water.
Yeah. all your hardscape and all this landscaping, what's it doing to the drainage? Again, I have to object because it's going beyond Yeah. Again, we have to focus the questions on the reason why he's here. Okay. We will have a comment period. You have a lot more leeway when you get to the comment
period, but for this for this point, we want to stick to his testimony and questions that are relevant to his specific application. Well, that's all I have to ask because if it's 4 foot, you don't need the seven foot. Thank you very much. Is there another question? Hello. Hello. Uh my name is Anuya Goss
and I live in three Beaver Creek Court. We are uh neighbors uh on the left hand side. So we are the first house on the road from Minebrook. Um my question is a bit of a curious one. I'm wondering is the primary concern um car theft that
you mentioned is that the primary concern for what you're building the fence for? I it's it's one of the concerns I would say. Do you have other concerns other than car theft? Yeah, I mean we've had
people approach the house that we don't need but um Okay. Yeah. This Yeah. Well, I'll I'll address it in the comment section because we are the first an opportunity then. Yeah. Okay. Thank
you. Are there other questions? Sorry. Quick question. Mr. Press, are you an interested neighbor? Yes. Mr. Zell, I know he's Do you have any objections? It sounds like Mr. K. I
think as a recused neighbor, he has the right. Thank you. Okay. Um Carl Krauss, 40 Beaver Creek Court. Okay. Where are you on the map, Mr. Cross? On the end on the left hand side, Culdeac. Okay. Um just two questions. One is did you consider anything else besides what
you're proposing today? Um the township has open, you know, 50% open fence and that's typically what I've seen in the township um on front yards. Um either wood or metal typically. Sorry. To remind you, it's got to be Oh, I'm
sorry. Did you consider any other options besides what you're proposing? Possibly a fence that is 50% open versus the closed not 50% open walled uh
rendering that that might provide the same safety features that you're looking for. Yeah. I don't know if it'll have the depth as the um Mr. Just a reminder into the mic, please. I I don't know that it'd have the debt and the uh like the
hedge and the post, but uh I'm not looking to create problems for anyone. We're just I was just asking did you look at anything else? Did you I mean this is what our our uh designer has designed. We feel it looks excellent and Okay. Yeah. The only other question
was um is this do any other neighbors within the eight houses in this culde-sac area have front fences in their front yard? I don't believe they do at this point. Okay. Thank you. That's all I have. Um, one last question. I apologize. Do you have garages in your house? And how many? Uh,
four garages. And do you keep your cars in your garages? Uh, typically usually. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Are there additional questions for Mr. Miller? Okay. Come up to the mic, please. Good evening. Your name and address, please. Donald McCutchen, Jr., uh, 18 Beaver Creek. Uh,
directly across from Mr. U. My question probably isn't for Mr. drunken Miller is probably for the engineer. Okay. Do you want to try it? Otherwise, we you will have an opportunity to ask questions. Sure. It's I'm sorry. Before you go any further, you said 18. Your name one more
time. Donald McCutchen Jr. You need You need That's M C U T C H E O N. Thank you so much. Excuse me. My voice is That's okay. So, right into the microphone, please. My question again is is probably for the
engineer. It has to do with the decibel level of the gates. Has that been looked into? Because what we've been experiencing uh is a lot of traffic in the middle of the night. So, and that's fine. We have
no problem with that. It's the opening and closing of the gate. So, your question is how loud will the opening and closing of the gates be? Do you do you know that? Thank you. Um if I could answer, I've had gates before and they're very quiet. Um, but I'll leave
that to the engineer. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Sorry, I missed one question. Can I come back? Sure. Um, so I have to say my name again, Ania Goo from Three Beaver Creek Court. Thank
you. Um, do you know of any um, car thefts or the number of car thefts that have happened in the area? I have not calculated them all. I just know there was a episode about um
approximately a year ago that there was helicopters looking for someone who was um after after vehicles and I know um my son had that and there was also another one the next week later he was he's five
miles away but there's there have been several. So take care of your cars. Are there any other questions for Mr. Jill? Mr. Jerk Miller, have you spoken to any neighbors who we haven't heard from tonight um that expressed any
concerns? Anything other than what we've heard here tonight? Uh no, I haven't. Um thank you. Probably should have. Not required, Mr. S. Anything else for anything else from the board for Mr.
Okay, thank you. Actually, I did have one more. I have a question that was based on one of the questions one of the neighbors asked. Had you considered like an open like say a metal fence and you put a hedge behind it? So, it's not a
solid. Yeah, I haven't considered that, but uh considering it now, I believe it'd have the same effect if there's a hedge behind it. And there's nothing against a hedge I believe behind it. Correct. No, I don't believe there is. So, uh, not
much difference. Thank you. So, just on that point though, we are we're dealing with columns uh and hedges in between so that it's not as one of the neighbors suspected. It's it's not a fence that there's uh hedges built around, which you know, some people do
that. Speaking about the 35 ft of stone wall on either side of the gate, that was more what I was talking. Okay. Okay. Guess Miss Muller to come up, please. Thank you. You've been in front of this board a few
times, I would say. Uh, a couple times, handful of times. Good evening. Your license as a professional engineer is still in good standing this evening? Yes, it is. Madam Chair, do you need further? Yeah, your license is in good standing. We'll accept you as an engineer. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Would you please take us through the
current conditions and then what's been proposed? Yes. I'm pulling up the plans is submitted to the board uh dated 5525 consisting of two sheets. What I have on the screen right now is the
cover sheet with the existing conditions. Um my office actually has a lot of history in the area. We did the original subdivision of Biv Creek back in 2000. Uh we did the original plot plan for this lot. Uh we've been involved with Mr. Duck Miller's current
projects. If you heard the driveways submitted in the fall of 2024 and got approval from the township that netted a decrease of 341 square feet. Um no storm water or variances were required. So we
do have th that project reflected as existing conditions uh as builts will be done when everything is completed. Uh we have um the surrounding area of 200 ft marked along Beaver Creek. Um it's all
the R1 residential zone. The property is 3.04 acres when 3 acres is required. It's com uh complying bless you in all other dimensional uh requirements for the the zone the front yard setback all
the sideyard setbacks re rear yard setback the coverage is compliant um as your engineer had pointed out that if we included all the columns the 34 by 34s at the entrance the 30 by30s when we remove the existing
columns that you've seen it nets out to an increase of 54 or 58 square feet increase. Um again that combined with the prior project ongoing in the front uh the project property will always be has been and will still be compliant for
impervious coverage. That's the existing conditions. Um I'll move on to the second sheet. Just for the record, these are the same plans that have been submitted to the
board. Correct. That's correct. And they're unchanged on the screen. Um the focus of the application tonight is the hedge row and columns along the front of the property. So what is proposed is 30 by 30 inch
columns at a 40 foot on center spacing. Uh a length of solid wall flanking the gates with the the gates set back. Uh this was dual purpose. One so that a car could pull off the road before the gates
were to open and also uh as your engineer had stated it sets them back a little bit to have some perspective. We have the four foots in the front and we set back the what proposed two 7 foot columns and then the proposed
wall the columns the vegetation in between the columns is symmetrical. Um, I saw that within the fence and wall detail uh zoning that I reviewed earlier this afternoon. So, that does meet some
guidelines from the ordinance. So, that's the gist of it. Um, it's one, two, three, six, eight columns at four feet in height. One, two, three, four, five, six to the right side if you're standing in
the road looking at it. and two on the left side. It goes to the property lines. The front of the columns and the 4ft hedge is proposed to be 3.5 ft from the property line which is approximately
I believe 14 to 15 ft from the curb line. The two pillars uh we've talked about the height at 7 feet and the attenuated gate that comes down. Um the
applicant desires this design as a visual impediment for vehicles only in the driveway opening. Uh the total width is 20.3 ft in between the two pillars. Uh the pillars are at 7 feet to hold up
a 6ft gate. A 4 foot pillar with a 4ft gate is not um wouldn't be as strong as a seven foot column with a with a sixoot gate. And and we're talking the sixoot gate is at the columns and then it comes
down to four in the middle. So again, it was a visual deterrent as well as a structural component for those two columns. Uh they were all designed by a landscape architect. We incorporated it onto our engineering designs. We looked
at the the coverage. We looked at the setbacks. We identified the variances. But again, this was all designed by a landscape architect to be aesthetically pleasing. Can you describe, and you may be getting there, what these um columns look like?
You know, what are they smooth? They look like stones. Uh per the the renderings. And I have one plan here as well. Was this which was also submitted to the board, right? I have a couple of different versions. I just want to make
sure. Yeah. I have their plan entitled vehicle gate entry columns entry walls. Yes. So in the top left corner they show a a granite veneer. Um you know it's not solid. It'll it'll
have some marbling to it with a granite cap. And then one last thing I'd like to just clarify. We've been hearing the length of 35 foot wall to the left and to the
right along the the frontage. The frontage of the property is 325 feet um from property to property line along the the right of way. The 35 feet to the left and to the right of these columns
is five feet perpendicular out from the columns. This portion here 5T towards the right of way towards the road leaving it's actually 23 and 1/2 ft that's running parallel closest to the
right ofway to either side. So if you were to walk along the top of it, it's 35 ft long. 5T set back at 5T. Got it. So those are the dimensions of the length of the wall. And is that the same on both sides? Yes, it's designed it's
designed symmetrical. Okay. So those walls have this square uh granite veneer that's pictured on the top of that. Correct. The columns uh are that next picture. So the the seven foot
columns, what do they look like? Because in the drawers they look different. So I correct. Those have appear to have a smoother texture to them. Okay. Um again, the landscape architects out of Massachusetts, so I'm I'm relying on their plans. It is. It says gray stuff
on it. Yeah, I I know what it says, but is that what it is or the suggestion or is that the plan? Did you pick them out yet? I'm not sure. They're depicted as gray stucco if the board has, you know, they're to match the granite gray top
cap and the the texture of the the new granite veneer. Okay. So, we think the cap and the pillar will be the same. It looks different in the picture of the columns, the cap and the pier will be the same. Okay. So,
um I again heard that you had this uh 7 ft gate just uh as a visual impediment. So the top of the the top of the two columns is 7 ft. Yeah. So the gate the
whole area the the big one right? So your argument you gave argument that that's for the visual impediment but you still have four wall where you could they could see the cars. Correct. So I'm going to just refer to this rendering.
Yeah. The columns are seven feet. The top of the gate six and comes down to four. I understand. Right. The depth, as you've heard, for the depth rather than hopping over a 4ft fence to the left and to the right will be vegetated. So,
it'll be deeper to get over. So, this is more of a barrier for the vehicle entry. That's only the 23 feet or 20.3 feet width of the driveway where that occurs.
And you're familiar with the home like you've been out there and you've seen what everything looks like there. I've seen it virtually. I've seen all the surveys. We've done the design work for years on it. Um I've been out there actually the prior owner to the right on
the corner had a septic problem. So, I had taken I'm familiar with the area. Okay. And is there any other home in this culdeac in this area that has anything even remotely similar to this
with columns or pillars or a gauge or um hedges that are, you know, that that don't have the 50% where basically it's kind of like a fortress. Is there anything else on this block in this that
has anything even remotely remotely similar to this? Not to my knowledge. Question I have for you is what other options if they wanted to obviously still have a driveway gate. Um what
other options are there given the width of the driveway would you have to do a gate that would fit that width that that could hold that weight? That's an excellent question. I don't I'm not prepared to answer it. Um to have a
10-ft swinging gate, you would need a substantial base to hold that as it swings and move it. Um I don't have the structural details of alternate gates. You know, do they need to be mounted at
six feet high just to be able to have that torque strength that they don't t topple over with the weight of a gate as it swings? I I do not have that answer. It's a great question, but I don't have the answer. in considering other material that would be possibly lighter
that would allow you to have a smaller size but yet still have that this the arm momentum of the strength of it. Um I do not have that answer but great question. Can I have two questions? Do
you know the thickness of that wall for the depth of the side flanking wall? the thickness of that masonry wall now that cause forms the wing walls we have it drawn at a foot and a half
what because the concern is there's I don't know why it went from a 4ft hedge to a foot and a half masonry wall if there was desire for depth as a barrier you've removed that now so what was the thinking in going from a 4ft hedge all the way to now having a foot and a half
masonry wall so that's actually address. So the original plan was what you're seeing now internally. Um by the time we got to submission uh after conferring with Mr. Schlly and
taking thoughts in general internally uh it was thought that the hedge would not be considered a wall. Then on further reflection Mr. Schly understandably uh thought after seeing the pictures I think realistically um how these
might be. So we realized we were probably going to have to ask for that variance anyway. So if we were looking for it anyway, then we went back to the original plan. That's but at that point you had seen the plan with only the hedges and then the revelation came afterwards. It's just as simple as that. Okay. Yeah. This was this was the
precedent here. Okay. Um the other question I had is the impervious cover. When I made that note, I you guys have about four or 500 square feet, I think. Correct. 70 square feet I calculated was only columns. You've added some now with this masonry wall.
So, I don't think it's going to bring you close. Correct. But you're going to get close. So, just make sure you update it on the plan so that's reflected as well as the columns. So, he has whatever current tally he ends up with, it's clear. We'll do.
So, a hedge is considered a wall. It could be a wall. Yeah, it's the board. We have to discuss whether we put it or not. People with hedges all over the place. We can get to that when we do. It wouldn't necessarily
just be the hedge. It's entire ask David Schly a question. Um what is the intent of having a fence that's 50% open to promote openness. Openness.
So that air light and so that we don't have so you're not have like tunnel vision driving down the road. Um that's general nature of safety issues having to do with being able to see. Well, sight distances at intersections mostly,
but also driveways could be a concern. Can I ask a clarification question? So the The flanking wing walls you said one and a half ft deep. Deep. Correct. Are the hedges four feet deep too? Sorry. Four feet. The hedges we have drafted at
four feet from the front to the back. Okay. Like a four feet tall and four feet. Right. Just making sure. Anything else? Uh, that's all I have um
to present tonight. Okay. Are there any other questions from the board? You said there was a landscape architect that came up with this plan. Do you have the name of that firm? It's Ivy Studios. They had produced the renderings.
There was a question about the material too, right? the landscape material. Yeah. You don't know what they're proposing it, do you? Uh I do not I would imagine it's u let me see if they have it on here. They have a shrub hedging. Um I'm not sure if it's a boxwood or something. Um we did speak to
them in preparation of the hearing tonight. What they have obviously it's going to be a evergreen hedge. It's not going to be deciduous and lose its its leaves. It will be green year round. And that was also their intention to buffer
the fence with some landscaping and or I'm sorry the wall with some landscaping um ornamental grasses similar to what's been shown in the rendering. Um low growing, always green, won't lose its, you know, they'll flower throughout the
year. Um so that's their intention. I have a question for I guess David. per this discussion of hedges being a wall, if they were to remove this the various columns and just make it one
long hedge, would that then take it out of the question of is this a wall? I think that's a question for the board. Yeah, I we'll have to discuss that whether we and I don't know, Mr. Zoe, whether you're going to include in some of your closing comments whether you
have an opinion on whether you think it should be viewed as a wall or not. My and Mr. Sly did touch on this. I think uh first of all, there's going to be a threshold question for the board to decide whether it can or cannot be. Uh there is no definition in your ordinance. Mr. SL actually mentioned
that in his report. He did. Uh so you're going to be going by dictionary definitions. But uh we certainly believe there's a difference. for instance the the flanking walls difference between those and the hedros. Uh but the board has to make a threshold
question as to whether it falls within the ordinance in the first place and if so whether we need relief or not. Thank you. I have another question for Mr. um you just put stone peers on either side of your driveway in front of the
property. Is that peritted? The town's longstanding policy has been you can put colum with a light on it and it's it's just a column with a light on it. Similar to a lamp post, you can put one on either side of your driveway.
Anything extending from it of any nature, whether it's open or not, is going to turn the whole thing into a fence or wall, whatever you want to call it. They're both essentially regulated the same. But the policy is you can have one column, obviously, it can be solid,
right? Uh and it's not considered a fence or a wall. It's just treated as well. post that we would not regulate in the same way. I counted less than seven houses in that neighborhood that had stone peers on either side of their driveway with with light fixtures on.
But you could have that's the extent of what as far as one could go and get for it without getting a bearing. But the height is limited. No, for the column. The column the height you can put a a lamp on top of it. But it's four feet
plus the lamp. Four feet. Yeah. But what's to stop someone from building a column like that and then later planting a hedge? It's an enforcement issue and it would be maybe subject to an interpretation. We haven't had we the
town that I'm aware have had a situation where we've actually needed to regulate a pure hedge um wherever someone may have planted it as a wall. It just hasn't come up.
Thank you. Anything else for Mr. Nothing further from Mueller? Okay. Does public have any um questions for Miss Mueller based upon her testimony on up and your name and address right into the mic, please.
Hi. Uh Dan Sudler, uh 29 Beaver Creek Court. Um I'm directly next door to uh Mr. and Mrs. Junka Miller. Okay. Are you the third house in? That's right on the right. Okay.
Um, so question, what are you proposing from the lot edges as far as fencing columns edges to the back of the lot? So, can I use your mouse? Yep. So, from here back or from
here back as part of this project? Nothing. Okay. So, we're still in the question period, right? Yes, we are. So, if if I, God forbid, or someone wanted to access Mr. Jun Miller's home, his cars,
whatever, and that person standing here, how would they do it? By foot, you could walk around it as proposed. Again, we're here for the columns, the shrubs, and the entry. Understood. they can get a
fence permit. If it doesn't require a variance, they wouldn't appear in front of this board. So, what we've presented is what we're asking variances for from the board. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Additional questions.
You don't have to be sorry. Carl Krauss, 40 Beaver Creek Court. Um, have you done a lot of properties in Bruner's Township? Yes. Um, have you experienced or seen this type of property with a walled off more than 50% in Berners
Township? I have not done the applications here. Um, I haven't taken a poll of the the township. Um, but you drive through it a lot and you see different properties neighboring towns. Yes, we have done this many many times but not in I have not presented this
variance. Okay. And um, what was my third question? If and maybe that's not might not be for you, but if someone did break into this property and stole a car and everything was closed like a wall, how would they get out? Is what that's the deterrence? No.
No. How would they get out though? Would they have to go through this neighbor and this neighbor to get out if they did break in, steal a car? If they couldn't get out now, they wouldn't steal the car because the deterrent of not being able to get out. I'm asking the question, if they did steal a car, they could blast through the gate. So, the easiest
easiest way to get out easiest way to get out apologize. The easiest way to get out would be through the neighbor's properties at this point. We did not do a vegetation uh excuse me, please be quiet. One question, one answer. We didn't survey the vegetation on the adjacent property lines. Okay. But it's
possible that that's would be the route that they have to take. I would not agree with that statement without walking the property. It's possible just like anything is possible. If there's trees there, I I don't know if the neighbors have a fence. either. Okay. Um, that's all I have. Thank you.
Additional questions for Miss Mueller. Daniel, your name and address again. Daniel Carrie, 32 Beaver Creek Court. Um, would you mind? Could we scan back to the the street? I just wanted to count how many. Um, okay. So, there's
one, two, three, four, five, six, then the wall. Seven. I'm counting eight um of these structures. Is that right? That's correct. And what are their dimensions? 30 by 30 and 30 inches by 30 in by four feet high. Okay. And do we
know what they're made out of? I'm assuming they're some sort of mason stone brick cinder block with a granite veneer. With the granite veneer. What are the horizontal pieces that the hedges are going to grow on? I'm
assuming there's got to be some cross pieces between these. I'm going to call those peers. Would you? No, they're just going to be shrubs that are planted like a boxwood that you would see in front of an a typical residence and no um horizontal pieces joining those peers.
No. So, a car could potentially drive right through the hedge then. I can't answer that in a what if. Okay. the the property right over here which is Dan Sudler's I believe has an easy
sir which property are you talking about? Um the one to the right there is a fire department. I believe it's like a sistern. Is there not sir? Yes. What property are you talking about? Um right alongside uh on this screen. What
side of Okay. To the right to the bottom of the street. So that's to the east. I'm sorry. We Yes. On the lower right corner right right here. I can't see where. All right. So the far right property on the corner of the image that's projected there, the house
directly to the Yeah. is Dan Sudler's property, correct, Dan? And I believe there is a fire department water retention system because there's no fire hydrants on our street. And um is that a
question? At least it will be at least once a year the fire department comes to check the pressure in there. Have you or your team consulted with the fire department about how this might impact their access to get water to save our
houses from burning? Can I leave it to the board to answer that question? Fire department is consulted automatically as part of the Did they receive a mail piece uh certified mail? cuz I didn't know I didn't get mine. The fire department cuz
I know they were listed on there. I was listed too, but I didn't get the fire department has always consulted on every application. Okay. So, how potentially would a fire hose be brought to protect your clients
themselves houses over this wall? What What would they do? Uh, it's a great question. when usually when there's gates on any road or a path that may be locked off, right, there's a Knox box that's put there that has fire access within it. Okay. And so I guess their
gate would have that. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Additional questions from the public, Miss Miller? Okay. Mr. anything I would uh rather sum up after there's going to be comments and there's going
to be comments. Okay. No further witnesses. No further witnesses. Are there any um comments on this application from the public either for or against? Just so you know when you get up to
test. All right. right hand you swear the truth I do one more time Daniel Sudler 29 Beaver Creek Court you spell your last name for me s u d l e er
gota okay thank you sir and your comment okay so um I just have a statement I'm going to read before I read it I just want to say that I I like the drunken millers I hate being contentious with my neighbors they're nice folks um and So,
this is coming on the heels of years of construction. So, I think that's why you're getting a little um feeling of animosity, but that that's not the case. So, here's my statement. Uh I'm a resident and property owner at 29 Beaver Creek Court located in close proximity to the subject property. Um
and I respectfully object the request based on the following concerns. Number one, negative impact on streetscape and neighborhood aesthetics. The proposed fence, columns, gate, and shrubbery along with recent
large-scale hardscaping, landscaping changes already completed on the property significantly disrupt the visual continuity and character of our street. The scale and materials proposed are inconsistent with the open traditional suburban design that divine that defines our neighborhood, creating
a more institutional or commercial appearance in a residential setting. Uh potential impact on property values is my second. The the introduction of prominent non-conforming structures like large metal gates, stone columns, privacy hedges may have a negative
impact on nearby property values. Many home buyers are drawn to our neighborhood because of its cohesive streetscape, mature landscaping, and lack of imposing barriers between homes. The installation of these changes would appear out of place, could dim could diminish the desiraability and
marketability of our nearby properties. And the last is it's out of character with the surrounding homes. The homes on this street share relatively uniform character with open lawns, modest fencing, if any, uh, and unobstructed driveways. The proposed changes uh are
wholly inconsistent with the established aesthetic, and introduce an element that is not reflective of the neighborhood's identity. This change could set a precedent for similar requests, ultimately eroding the cohesive look and feel of our area. Uh, I respectfully request that the board
consider these points carefully, deny the variance request, and while I understand and respect each homeowner's right to enhance their property, such change should not come at the expense of the surrounding community. Thank you. Thank you for your comment. Additional
comments on this application? Hang on one second. Okay. Sorry. There you go. He's gonna swear you in. Oh, yeah. All right, sir. You swear from the testimony you have to provide the truth the whole street. I do. Name and address one more time. Donald McCutchen, 18
Beaver Creek. Um, I'm a licensed architect and a licensed land surveyor. Um, my family has lived on the street since 2002 and uh I can understand and
appreciate the unfortunate incident that occurred with Mr. Drunken Miller's son. Uh I can tell you that we have not experienced any security incidents on our street. That's not to say something
like that is not ever going to happen. But and for this variance to be approved uh it it seems to me that they need to look at hardship which as Mr. Junk
Miller has presented is a security factor. Uh let me tell you my experience. My wife is from Seattle, Washington. And in Seattle, Washington, one of the wealthiest men in the world,
Bill Gates, lives on a lake. And if any of you have ever seen his house, it's an amazing home. But you can approach it from the lake. And you would not know it's Bill Gates's
house looking at it from the water because he introduces design elements, unobtrusive design features that add to the security. And what I am offering to you
and to the design team and Mr. drunken Miller. I'm asking the question, have they fully explored all of the design components that would uh appease his concerns over this security apparent
security issue. Um, now the Jun Millers are very pleasant neighbors. They've done a tremendous amount of work to improve their property. their their property is immaculate and we we we're thankful for the added value that
they've added to the street. But this solution I don't think is the right solution to address the hardship or concern that they're trying to address. And that is my only comment that they
need to explore further and not to interfere with the standards that have been established by this board to have an open streetscape, open street lines that enhance the uh that enhance the
beauty of the street. So that is my only comment that they explore everything and I don't think they've fully done that. Thank you. Thank you for your comment. No. Can I say something? The board did not establish these standards. We just
Okay. Continue on comments. Sure. Uh Mike Henderlong from 41. There you go. Sir, you swear about the truth. I do. Mike Henderlong, 41 Beaver Creek Court.
So, my wife and and I have lived on uh in the house since 2005, so 20 years. We weren't the original owners. Um but love the neighborhood, the kind of quaintance of it on larger lots. Um these houses are not huge. I think the largest house is a Drunken Miller. Um, I think when
Bosina built the neighborhood, he wasn't looking for that, you know, Harrians's look in Mob Land series and more of just a kind of openness uh in in the neighborhood and so on. So, I could honestly say that I've never had any kind of criminal activity on my
property. Um, it's hard to believe because my wife grew up on a large farm in North Carolina. She literally leaves her keys in all of our cars in the driveway with her wallet on the seat. So, I you could feel safe from that perspective if they're stealing our cars. Exactly. Okay. Whatever. It's you guys driving. Yeah, exactly. Um, so so I
think you know in terms of what we were talking about before and I I uh 100% object to this and and agree with with Mr. Sler's um you know uh letter, but what what I really want to like kind of run or jam home here is is I think that
these ordinances are set up to protect the integrity of a neighborhood, right? And it's up to you as board members to to um to to kind of monitor that and and um you know at least look out for us. Um and and in this I I don't see any hardship whatsoever in my mind. It seems
to me that this is a a a like to have not have to have or from from protecting cars being stolen. I had two good friends um one live on a larger cross road probably close to 200 acres which high gated lots. um criminals came in, took two cars out of their their
driveways, and again went through a fence. So, I don't think a little shrubbery and so on is going to actually protect anyone here if if that's what they want to do. Another good friend on on in the mountain in Burnersville, same deal. Fences all around the property, took two of the cars out of their
driveway, police actually alarms went off, cops came, cops left, and they still stole the cars out. So, the pros are going to get it no matter where you are. um my mind too. If if you're really concerned about security, then having a 3acre lot is really not going to do it if that's what criminals want to do and
come in. So anyway, adamantly against it. Um again, it's it's been there for 20 years, had no criminal activity in our neighborhood, and I think this will really um look detr put a detrimental um look on on our block when you're when you're driving into it. So, thank you
for your comment. Yep. Thank you. Additional comments on this application. Okay. Seeing none, I'm going to close the comment period. Mr. Zelli. Wait, wait. Yeah. You Mr. Zelli, if we let one more
comment, do you swear that the testimony you're about to provide will be the truth? Who told truth? Nothing about the truth. I'll be I do. Okay. Name and address one more time, please. Ania Kosh. Three Beaver Creek Court. So again, we are um you know, we are very happy with our friendly neighbors. We moved into three Beaver Creek Court now
about four four and a half years ago. And the reason we've always been residents in Basking Ridge in the hills area and we really moved to this neighborhood because of the openness, right? We have two young teenage daughters. And uh as you can see, none of the houses on the road have fences or
anything that precluded us because we didn't think that there was there was lot of security and safety in the neighborhood. The neighbors are amazingly friendly. They always stand out, chat, and whenever we see each other. So I think having that community sense of community would be a little bit
precluded if you just have this fence that is kind of blocking your uh I think psychological even psychological uh vision here. Um the other thing that I wanted to say is our driveway is just across their their property. So if it's
really the car theft that's an issue then the car could probably pull it up on our driveway and get out from our road. We don't have anything. We don't even have columns on our driveway. So, I just wanted to bring that to the board's attention as well that where there is a will, there is always a way. So, yes, I
just wanted to leave it at that. Thank you. And I object to the Thank you for your comment. Uh Daniel Kerry, 32 Beaver Creek Court. Sir, do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to provide the truth, whole truth, nothing but the truth? Yes, I do.
Um, I I just wanted to thank everybody for their time and I I wanted to um thank you for listening to my concerns and I wish you and your family well. Thank you. Thank you. We we oppose this project um in the strongest terms
possible. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, sir. Additional comments. Okay, we're going to close the comment period for this application. Thank you. Mr. Si,
first of all, thank you for everybody coming out. We appreciate your comments. This process doesn't work very well if the neighborhood doesn't participate. So, even though the comments are against us, we do thank you for coming out tonight. Um, as we discussed, uh, there is a threshold question here for this
application, which is whether uh, shrubbery, uh, as presented constitutes a wall or constitutes a fence. Um, some comments came up as to uh whether just having shrubbery without the uh without the decorative columns uh
would change the uh change the answer to that question. That's something the board has to decide. Uh, and one thing I would ask you to consider is the other way around is if we just put the columns up sporadically, um, just for decorative purposes, um, whether that would change
your impression because if that in and of itself is fine, uh, and having hedges in themselves is fine, it really doesn't make, in my mind anyway, a logical difference. Uh, since we don't have any structure going through the hedges, uh, you're looking at the same thing. Um
that said, uh it's it's a decision that you need to make. Uh we don't have an ordinance definition to guide us. So we do have to go by definitions uh under your ordinance specifically. We have to go by definitions from the dictionary. Uh what I do want to point out is in uh 2019 in an application for
a standalone gate proposed for property at 7 Tall timber Lane uh ZB1909, the board found the applicants had satisfied their burden of demonstrating the purpose of the MLUL would be advanced by requested deviations. uh height again in that
situation um and whether those benefits would substantially outweigh the detriments. This is as you know the C2 uh bulk variance requirement or the flexible C. Um there were several comments made this evening about whether we have a hardship. This is not a C1 application. We're not arguing a
hardship. Uh so we can see that there is none, but that is not the burden that we need to sustain today. We need to show you that the benefits of having these walls at the height uh and at the level of uh solidity, if that's the right word, uh whether that benefit outweighs
any detriment to the neighborhood and to the uh zoning plan. Uh the board noted in its resolution in the 2019 application, the intent of the fence height and construction ordinances to avoid massing and to preserve the character of the neighborhood. Here, the proposed gates and fences do not extend around the
entirety of the property and do not obscure the views of the property. As such, the board finds that the applicants have demonstrated that the benefits of the proposal, particularly improved aesthetics of the property, substantially outweigh the modest detriment associated therewith. In this case, while the proposed gates and columns are conceitedly more elaborate
than what was uh approved in that application, they do share the goal of providing aesthetic improvement to the property. The proposed gates, walls, and hedges will also provide a level of security against car theft, which has unfortunately uh victimized the members of this family and and other uh families
in this neighborhood, in this town, and surrounding towns. Uh security concerns were recognized and relied upon by the board in approving other gate height variances in 2017 uh specifically for 393 Martinsville Road and 2006, specifically for 147 Liberty Corner
Road. As I said, the requested variance would be C2 or flexible C variants. Uh we believe the purposes of the MLUL that would be satisfied with this would be uh first to encourage municipal action to guide the appropriate use and development of all lands in the state in
a manner which will promote the public health, safety, morals and general welfare. That's purpose A. Uh second to promote a desirable visual environment through creative development techniques, good civic design and arrangement by installing an attractive new feature on the subject property that will complement other properties in the
surrounding neighborhood and thereby enhance the neighborhood as a whole. Uh that's uh purpose I and then also under homebuilders league of South Jersey versus Township of Berlin 81 NJ127 1979 Supreme Court case uh to conserve property values in the neighborhood as a
whole which remains a purpose of the land use regulation even though not specifically delineated in the MLUL. Uh we believe the negative criteria also satisfied. These variances could be granted without substantial detriment to the public good and without substantial impairment of the intent and purpose of the zone plan and zoning ordinance. Uh
the proposed gates and columns are certainly in keeping with neighborhood and with similar neighborhoods in Burners Township as well as adjacent pars. U so we do thank you for hearing us this evening. Again, we thank the neighbors for coming out and we would appreciate a positive vote. I would ask
for a specific discussion and decision on the issue as to whether uh hedgees do in fact constitute walls or fences under the ordinance. Uh so we have that of the record. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Sally. Okay. So I
will sort this out. Okay. So let's start with variances. We know I think all parties agree are required. That's the fence height the front yard fence height for the gate which is six feet at its tallest and for the the two columns supporting the gate
which are seven feet each. Correct. Um the third variant is if the board decides this is applicable to the front yard fence construction that's the openness requirement it's required to be more than 50% open the question I guess before the board is whether or not the
proposed improvements constitute a fence that is less or greater than 50% open right so before I come back to that let's go through the conditions um I don't know if they're stipulated too directly but the comments in Mr. and Mr. Quinn's memos and the
environmental the environment you guys are stipulating any conditions in those meos. Yes. So I thought few things I did note just during hearing that seemed like stipulations to me the uh the gates would open towards the house. The hedros
would be kept at a maximum height of 4t tall. Obviously the higher be subject to zoning enforcement. I think you guys need to revise the plans to add the coverage created by the proposed columns and pillars. Use evergreen hedges, meaning
not deciduous hedges construction. And this is to your benefit. You want to do this anyway, but install a knock box on the front gate so the fire department. I don't know. I would leave that up to the fire department. I would buy them.
Okay. Department may not want that. I don't have no idea. Got so they required by any objections to those? No. Okay. Now, let's go back to the open issue. So, as I understand it, and I might ask
Dave to jump in here at any point, but the way the ordinance reads, um, the term fence is not defined, right? So pursuant to section 21-2 of the ordinance if something isn't outright defined by the ordinance itself it refers to the uh the Webster's dictionary the third new international
version um to define certain terms right so I'm pulling from Mr. memo here. Offense is defined by that dictionary as a quote a barrier intended to prevent escape or intrusion or to mark a boundary and then also defined as a structure of posts and boards, wire,
pickets or rails commonly used as an enclosure for a field or yard. So that's the dictionary definition. So board must decide whether or not the proposed improvements meet the fence I suppose as defined by the dictionary. Thank you. Okay, I think
that's a good place to start. Um, so, um, as he said, uh, there's a variance request for the height in the front yard of the gate columns and the gate. So, we know that and that's a given. The second one is, um, fence construction in a
front yard uh, that needs to remain 50% open. So I think it would be helpful if we started with some comments uh or thoughts on whether indeed the hedge suggested um constitutes a fence based
upon I guess the uh dictionary's definition of fence or uh our view of this project in particular. Do you want to start miss Dr. Agawal please? Um generally you know listening to
everything. Uh to me the the priority of uh the applicant they're saying security uh by putting this thing is not going to be addressed. It's primarily aesthetics because like uh you know
witnesses pointed out it could come this side you could go this side you could just run through the hedge to steal the car. The cars are still visible through the gate. uh so my aesthetics is the primary
concern and I don't see hardship uh you know I see uh what do you call significant change in the local character of the houses I'm maybe in the same position
that on my street if somebody were to you know change the whole thing I will have the objection that you know if it does not ser any Everybody has taken them properly. So doesn't serve any purpose. Then why
should we do something so drastic that it will change the whole block? Okay, that's my com. Thank you. Dr. Thoughts around the the fence specifically, you know, would you consider you know the
fence it's visible or not visible? That could be one thing. Uh you know, you can see through or not. uh but uh you know if you look at the fence then uh you know uh security point of view it will serve the same purpose like a solid fence you know I will still call the
hedge fence because it will serve the purpose of fence okay consider it a fence considering other comments on considering an offense or not offense definitely offense I think in this context it's undeniably offense the
applicant is presenting it to serve as a fence. So if it's the applicant who's telling us, "This is what I want this to serve as a fence because I think it's difficult for somebody who's stealing a car to get through it." They're telling us it's a fence. Okay. Other comments? I
I would have just one thing to say. If they were just putting a hedge in the front yard, nobody would stop them. You see hedges all around town that people put in the front yard. My house had a hedge when we moved in. The first was take it down because I didn't like it. But people plant hedges all the time.
What makes this a fence are those stone peers in between which which almost define it as a fence and and the gate and the 35 foot planking walls on either side of the gate. Okay. So into a fence in my mind itself you think the hedge
would not be a fence but the this in this project the combination is fence. Other comments with the stone. other comments. Turns it into a fence. Yes. So, I I would think the same thing. I'm sorry. Did I cut you? No. Um I would I would think the same thing. I think that
if um I think if an applicant were to come before us and and actually an applicant wouldn't have to come before us if they just wanted to plant trees that created a barrier around their entire yard, quite frankly. Um and that would have benefits because of drainage
and environmental impacts and things like that. lack thereof. Um, but in this particular scenario, I agree with Miss Popar and with Miss Herrera that it is it is being presented as a fence. So, in
context, it is a fence and because of the way it's stationed um and connected by the um by the the columns that it it has become a fence. Is that accurate,
Mr. Sai? wanted to put a solid hedge that was 10 feet tall across the entire front of their property. Could they do that without um need to do it? But would there be an interpretation about it?
Somebody would have to complain and then there could be a discussion. So, but we don't know. Okay. It's a question. Okay. I don't remember ever it coming up. Yeah. Well, I think it would be
debatable. In my opinion, a solid thick hedge that went across someone's entire property. I would have um to really think about whether that's a fence or not for me personally, but we have that's not in front of us. Is there anyone on the board that does not think
we should consider the fence variance the 50% open? Everyone I've heard so far said this project has the 50%. Is there anyone who doesn't? No. Okay. So, all right. So, let's let's go with that. So, there are
two uh variances that the board uh is looking at. Um the maximum fence uh height in the front yard as well as the 50% opening for the fence construction in the front yard. Okay. Um, we've heard Dr. Agawal's comments. Other comments on
this application that we haven't heard yet or motions? I I I would say that um number one for the Dr. Millers, I'm sorry. None of us can really understand the impact of um somebody stealing a car
or breaking into our house. So, my apologies to you um and your family. Um, I do believe that if the intent here is to um create a safety
um security issue uh around your house, I think there are other ways to approach it and I think there are other ways to solve the problem and I think that it can be done while in compliance with what our
ordinance calls for. Um, I think that this is absolutely not in character with the neighborhood. I did visit the property. Um, nobody else in the neighborhood has even a fence um around their
property, I don't think. Um, and this just the 50% open requirement creates light. It creates um a soft visual effect.
Um it it this is this is massing and this is um just in my opinion completely out of character with the neighborhood. So I don't believe that it creates a desirable visual visual element. I do not think that it enhances the character
of the neighborhood. Um I think it goes against the intent of the zone plan. Um and I think that it is just um I don't think that you can argue if you wanted to argue C1, it doesn't fit with the
negative uh criteria. Um C2, it does it goes against the negative criteria. So for me, it's completely out of character with the neighborhood. It goes against our zone plan. I would be um opposed to the application. Thank you, Mr. Common.
Madam Chair, I somewhat intimately involved with the master plan for many years. Um, I really feel that one of the bedrocks of the master plan in Bernard's
Township is to maintain the characters, the character of our neighborhoods and all of our neighborhoods have different character and that's why people move to Bernard's Township because we have such distinctive neighborhoods and I think
that this application I agree with um, Miss Bowman that this is completely out of character for the the neighborhood as it is now and as it has been for many many years. Many people here were
original owners and can you know have the history of the neighborhood. So I have an issue that I don't think the negative criteria of being consistent with the zone plan and the master plan has been satisfied. So I would be
opposed to the application and gratitude. Thank you, Mr. Pie. I also have a question about gates, you know. I mean, that is really not 50% open either, you know. Um,
yeah, I think yeah, I think the entire I then I I agree as well. I I think it's definitely my summary includes the gates here in town. Yeah. Yeah. Um I'll add my comments as well. I mean it's uh sometimes it seems like we're not
sympathetic. We are sympathetic and we care a lot about um safety in the neighborhood for sure, but you know overall our our mission number one is to to see if what you're asking for which is not allowed. That's why you're here.
and and our job is to see if we can help facilitate that without going against the master plan and out without hurting the character of the neighborhood. Um I also did drive by um you know we review the applications in advance. I wasn't
familiar with your block. Um I did go down um your block and I was immediately concerned. um it felt that it was extremely out of character for um the neighborhood and so I I had some challenges. So I was interested to hear
the testimony. Uh I agree uh that um you know clearly our job is not to suggest safety uh suggestions to you. That that's your job. Um you can do whatever you feel is safe. Do we feel
that do I feel like this fence and gate promote safety? It's debatable. Um but that's not really the issue for me. It's does it um help the neighborhood or hurt the neighborhood visually. I I feel that it hurts the neighborhood visually. It's
my own personal opinion that it doesn't promote safety, but that's not my decision necessarily to make it. It's yours. Um but is it in character with the neighborhood? and and I just don't feel um I just don't feel that it is in my mind. It sets this house apart as
being very different from the other properties in the neighborhood. Makes it stand out as different. Okay. Any other comments or would someone like to make a motion on this application? I'll make the motion. Thank you. Um so I
would um I would deem the applica complete. Um and I would a motion to deny uh the variance request um and to ask our board attorney to
draft a a resolution memorializing the board's decision um under C2 uh the negative um the benefits
question the applicant estimates approved under either C1 I do not believe that the applicant has met its burden of proof under either other under either criteria. I can't speak. Okay. Apparently, we got it. Is there a
second? I'll second it. Thank you, Miss Padichi. Okay. Um, just to be clear, there's a motion to deny the application. So, a yes vote is an agreement to deny the application.
Dr. Awolf, yes. Miss Bowman, yes. Miss Herrera, yes. Miss Padichi, yes. Miss Pear, yes. Miss Trap, yes. Chairwoman Jire, yes. Thank you. Sorry, Mr. Jeff Miller. Sorry. I know
it's not what you wanted to hear, but disappointing, but I I'm sorry. I I thank uh everyone for the neighborhood for their questions and uh their comments. It's always helpful, and we're always interested to hear. Thank you all for hearing me. Thank you.
So yes. Okay, Miss um yes, Miss Keeper, Miss Padichi is going to excuse herself. So if we can just note that I will. Thank you. Following application, we're going to take a 5m minute break, everyone. So if
we can come back by um 9:45, we have one more case to hear. You did it. Here it comes. There we go. Okay. Uh, we bet we're ready when you are, Mr. S. Are we back on? Okay, good. So, we are
back in attendance. Just we will note for the record that Mr. Krauss has rejoined us, but we uh did lose Miss Vidichi, but we are still um good from a quarum quorum perspective to hear this next case. Madam Chair, before we get going, so
just real quick, so this is the Pucci case, uh block 5502, lot 14. Um I just wanted just a couple housekeeping to get started with. I think the board first the applicants first noticed for this case for the board's April 7th meeting. Um my understanding was carried to this
evening by two voice announcements. So the board still has the jurisdiction to hear and decide the case because the notice was determined to be effective back on April 7th. Um I don't believe any testimony was actually taken at that point in time. So I think we're essentially starting fresh here. Um just
want to check the applicants council. Um, I'm not sure if we have the same exact board members that were here, but you have no objections to No objection. As you said, nothing was actually done first meeting. So, yeah, that's it. And just a reminder to the board, we do have new materials
that were presented. We had several iterations and I have presents for you. So, there's going to be even more material, new materials. We were expecting more. So, we'll have plenty of exhibits to get to, but we'll let For the record, Frederick Zeli, Post Pollock, on behalf of the applicants,
John and Lindsey Ponucci. Uh, this is regarding 21 Pittney Court, block 5502, lot 14. It's located in your RC4 residential cluster zone. God bless you. Thank you. Um, uh, at the first, uh, hearing, uh, Mr. Be appeared, uh,
requested a German uh, so that he could file opposition. Uh, he did submit documentation to the board and to us. uh and we have refined our re-engineered a little bit accordingly uh to address his and his engineers concerns. And the reason I'm bringing that up now is
because Mr. Beg is here and has uh patiently waited for us to start the hearing and has advised me that uh he is no longer objecting. He's satisfied with the changes that we made to the engineering. Uh so I promised him I'd try to get him out of here if I if I could do that. So he'd like to address
the board briefly and then I'll go into my opening. It's open discretion. checking. Yes. So my concerns Gregory Bag 15 Pney Court. Do I need to be sworn in? Uh just to be safe for the first time. Do you swear or
testimony about the truth? I do. Okay. Um one more time. Sorry. Gregory Bag be GG 15 PY Courtney. Remind us where you live. So facing the home uh
Mont number up there. Yeah, it's uh 15. 15. Coincidentally, 15 is the address and 15 is the lot. Okay. So, you're immediately to the left of the property. Looking at it that way, from the street, looking at the front of the homes, I'm to the right. Yes. Makes sense. Correct.
So, my concern was about u drainage, water issues, and such that um presently exist. And then, as I thought would be exacerbated by their initial proposals. There have been several revisions to their proposals and as I've seen them so
far at least to the site plan. Um I hired an engineer to make some recommendations and they've adopted those recommendations. So with that respect I don't have an objection to their application. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Technically, yes. I think we should allow public question. That's fair. Yes. Are there any questions based upon uh the comments that we just heard? I don't see any. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thanks. Good night. Dismissed.
Oh, just to be clear to the applicant, we'll be constructing everything in accordance with what Mr. Banks engine will be constructing everything in accordance with our engineering plan, which was taking his comments, his engineers comments into account. Understood. Thank you. That's a little bit different. At least
we have a floor area not floor area ratio thanks to our Supreme Court's acknowledgement. So this is an application for bulk variances for three things. Excessive impervious coverage, excessive floor area not floor area ratio in a single family residence and
having a swimming pool in front of the rear line of adjacent homes. The unique about this one is we have two different homes that we violate that on. And by the way, they violate us on both sides too. Uh subject property is part of the Prince Edward Point section of the township. It was developed in the late
1980s. It's in your RC4 residential cluster zone. Most of the homes in the neighborhood when initially constructed were of similar size and structure. Various roof designs, exterior materials, other architectural features were implemented to achieve variety and diversity and curve appearance, but the basic design and size of the homes were
similar. The lot sizes in the neighborhood, however, vary significantly. And similarly, the lot widths, which is pertinent to your floor area calculations, uh are very significantly as well. This disparity in lot sizes and lot widths imposes hardship upon the owners of certain lots, including the applicants, as
they're unable to expand their homes in the same fashion as can certain of their neighbors, uh without requiring variance relief from pvious coverage and/or floor area, even though they have similar homes. Since the original filing of this application, the applicants have made substantial changes to the site plan,
including replacement of the existing swimming pool with a larger reoriented and relocated swimming pool, but also including removal of a portion of the driveway to reduce impervious coverage. Existing lot coverage is 23.09% all of which existed when the applicants purchased the home in January
of this year. To our knowledge, no excess coverage was approved by this board. However, project as originally proposed would have increased impervious coverage on the lot to a total of 25.33% where 20% is permitted. As I noted, the applicants are now proposing to replace the existing swimming pool
with a new pool which be larger relocated reoriented. However, the surrounding area of the new pool other than the coping uh would be raised decking rather than concrete. As you know, raised decking with appropriate spacing between the planks does not count for coverage under your ordinance
and is also not subject to the full rear yard setback. In this case, it would be 25 ft instead of 50 as long as we have open uh decking. The proposed reduction of the size of the driveway will also reduce the coverage. The net total proposed coverage is now 23.06
uh of which 648 ft will be storm water neutral uh pool water surface area. this water surface area were disregarded, coverage would only be 20.64 uh just slightly over the 20% that's permitted. Uh again, as Mr. Beg has just
indicated, uh we have uh reoriented, re-engineered a little bit in order to accomplish uh some of the goals uh brought up by him and his engineers. Uh they will be discussed this evening by our engineer. The variance for excessive floor area in a single family residence under section
21-32.3 of his earning ordinance is a seabbulk variance as opposed to a D4 use variance for floor area ratio. This was determined by the New Jersey Supreme Court in Rumson Estates versus Mayor of Fair Havens 177 NJ 338 in 2003. We are
seeking approval of 4568 ft where 3364 ft is permitted for this lot based upon its width. While this is obviously a substantial excess mathematically, given the fact that the addition is mostly located behind the home and does
not widen the home at all, uh it does not create a massive quote unquote monster home such as floor area limitations were designed to address. The Supreme Court in the Rumson case defined monster homes as homes which are built to a scale completely out of keeping with the neighbors of the
surrounding area. That's a quote. And which quote fail to match the fabric of the neighborhood end quote. Uh I believe you will agree. Uh we'll put testimony from our architect to show that that is simply not the case here. Uh what we are proposing is well in keeping uh with
this neighborhood and the homes uh on the culde-sac. This is a eight or nine um believe nine home culde-sac. Uh we're going to show you pictures of each of the homes on the street. Uh and you'll see that what we're proposing is well in keeping despite what the math shows uh
in terms of a rear edition. Uh, finally, we do need variances for everyone's favorite ordinance, 21-18.1, which in pertinent part requires a swimming pool to be located behind the rear building line of existing residential structures on adjoining lots. Uh, we need this regard
to both lots, as I said. Um, and in fact, those lots, I'll just cut to the chase, are uh equally deficient uh and non-compliant visa v our rear line. I have three witnesses this evening. applicant, Lindy Lindsey Ponucci, Corey Fernandez, our architect, and Robert
Cunningham, our engineer. And if there's no questions for me, um, we do have gifts. I'm going to take them. I think it's easier to hand them to you as we're going through the testimony, though, so we don't confuse with regard to exhibit numbers. So, I
just, uh, apologize in advance because it'll take some time as we pass things out as we go. We'll try to do it as quickly as we can. I do have a question. Sure. You you were talking about the um floor area of the house, right? Why are some houses in the neighborhood allowed more than this property? Because it's
based upon lot width. So, it's u you know the the the basic concept and it's the Supreme Court used the term monster home. It's kind of helpful because it really tells you what they're getting. It's it's it's amassing from the street perspective. So, it makes sense to go by the width because if you're if you're getting more and
more wide, uh it's it's a more massive situation. You could height could get involved, too. And that's for this development when it was constructed. Those were the rules that were right. The RC4 cluster zone is one of the few zones in the town that has a floor area requirement. It's not common in the
township. I don't know that it's common frankly in many. Uh there's there's the one case talking about it and uh it's not there's not a whole body of case law so I don't think it comes up that much. Um but it it is considered a C variance uh because it doesn't it doesn't change
the use. you're, you know, it's a single family use. It is, no matter what, what it's focusing on is not having these massive monster homes on lots that that don't warrant it. So, there's a formula of how much area you're allowed based on the width of it's instead of floor area
ratio, which is dividing the square footage by your lot area, right? Floor area under your ordinance anyway, uh, you divide it by the lot width. Okay. Any other questions? Okay, I have one question from for actually
Mr. Sly. I just want to make sure. So, the proposed um coverage is 23.06. That's the new proposed. So, Mr. Sly, is is that a typo in your comment where it says yes, there is. Not to call you out.
The other numbers I did check call you out. I just want to make sure that we're we're all following the numbers correctly. Thank you. Thank you. You said the third line of comment two. Oh, comment two. Wait, no. Comment two. In that third line, it says the total
proposed lot coverage of 25.06. It's 23.06. Got it. Okay. You catch that either. Okay. which matched the number you suggested. Yes. All right. Then I said we have three
witnesses. I'm going to have all three of you come up to be sworn in and then we'll start with Lindsay. Okay. So, we'll get three of you guys and then our two professionals. Please raise your hands for me. Swear or affirm that the testimony you're all about to provide the truth. Whole truth.
The truth is all you got. I do. Terrific. Thank you. Penucci. You have the place of honor. Sorry. I know this has been a little for you. That's okay. Sorry. You're here. I'm going to ask you a few preliminary
questions and then uh we're going to deviate from my normal practice a little bit. Miss Ponucci has put together uh a very nice narrative which tells you exactly why they're doing what they're doing. Uh and I can't elicit that any better through questioning. So I just if it's okay with you, let her read it. But first, would you please just introduce
yourself to the board? Sure. Um I am Lindseay Ponucci and I will soon be residing at 21 Pittney Court. And where do you reside currently? Currently I'm at 146 Lynden Drive, also in Basking Ridge. How long have you lived in Ber
Township? um for how long have I been married? Since 2012. This was um we first bought our home on Kensington Road. 25 27 Kensington Road and then um six years ago bought our current home at
146 Lynden Drive. Correct. Your design professionals will give us all the uh details of the architectural engineering perspective, but just briefly in your own words, what is it you're doing? What do you want to do with the property? Um, what we're
looking to do is add a room off the back of the house. Um, and do a second floor on it as well because on the second floor, we are looking to add a fifth bedroom. Um, and design layout-wise, the
best way to do that was breaking up our current master bedroom and relocating that um to over the garage and then over the back room that will be built. So, you have a two-story addition behind the garage. Yes. And then you're raising
the garage area from one and a half stories to make it two. Yes. Currently, it's a dormard ceiling over the um garage. So, we would just make it a a full second floor. Okay. And the big question is why are we doing this? And you have a lot of
answers to that. So, I'm going to let you go ahead and tell the board. Okay. Perfect. Um I was a little nervous and I can talk too much sometimes, so I wrote everything down so I didn't get um long-winded and off topic. So, um little bit of background on why we're here tonight. So, uh moving to Prince Edward
Point has always been a dream of mine. probably because it's reminiscent of the neighborhood I grew up in and must have been built by the same builders. I can go into a number of these homes and I know exactly where the linen closets are, where the pantry is, either because it was the same layout that I grew up in
or I babysat for children in. This neighborhood just simply feels like home to me. Um, and it always has been. I joke that I stalked the neighborhood for the last 10 years until this house popped on and I had to my husband and I had to grab it. Luckily, he agreed with me that it was great, too. Um, and this
is exactly the place I want to be and I feel most comfortable. Um, while I feel like the winner in all of this, finding my dream home in my dream neighborhood, my three sons, Joseph, Louie, and Frankie, who are 11, nine, and five, respectively, they're the real winners here. Where we currently live, there's
only one family that lives across the street from us with elementary A-aged kids. Now, I understand that people come and go. Um, however, moving to Prince Edward Point brings them within walking distance to so many of their friends with the D'Angelus and Dardelloo families on Pittney, the Burkeold,
Sriracho, Henchman, Sacko, and Press families on Springhouse, Petroglias on Woods End around the corner all the way down to the other end of the neighborhood with the Biscone and Moretti families on Edward, Merrilles, and Mount Cherry on Heath. The neighborhood is truly going to change my kids' lives. Having friends who live in
such close proximity will foster a strong sense of community, security, and friendships that my boys will carry with them throughout their childhood. Prior to us even moving in, this neighborhood has already shown our family what a neighborhood truly is, welcoming us and
including me specifically in a Pritz Edward point mom's night out that was last week with about 20 other moms throughout the entire neighborhood. Now, you might be wondering why we're here asking for this variance if we love this house and this neighborhood so much. And the answer is that while this move will
benefit our family as a whole, we need to tweak a few things to accommodate our family dynamic. Our oldest son has behavior challenges that began when he was only in preschool, but luckily landed us in the PAL's integrated preschool program until he transitioned into the behavior disabilities program
that's now referred to as Bridges uh for kindergarten at Cedar Hill School. Hence why we moved from Kensington to Cedar Hill. Um, we received tremendous support from the Bridges program, assisting my husband and me in creating systems for our family outside of school to help
keep Joseph regulated and in control of his body and emotions. Because of the nature of this meeting being a matter of public record, I don't feel very comfortable going into greater detail about his needs like his diagnosis. He's currently mainstreamed in the special in
the general education classroom. aside from the additional reading support that he receives and participates in mainstream activities in town like the baseball program at RBC and St. James basketball because Joe's disability is
invisible or hidden uh meaning you wouldn't be able to see it um by looking at him um and know he has a disability upon meeting him. Many of his friends aren't even aware of his challenges. So I don't really feel like it's right for me to share that here in an open forum. Um, however, what I can tell you is that
when Joe entered kindergarten, my neighbor at the time introduced me to the local organization for special education families in our town, um, called Bernard's Parents for Exceptional Children. And that became a lifeline for me. For those of you who don't know about PEC, this is a local nonprofit
that supports special education families in our town by providing programs, events, and education opportunities to connect and empower the special education families. Um, through this organization, I really found my tribe. I found um the people I can be vulnerable
with and that I can lean on. And meeting other parents who were in similar situations with their children and having similar similar struggles at home really helped my husband and I make it through some tough years. Um, I decided to get more involved with PEC and give
back because it had meant so much to me and I had gotten so much out of it. And um this summer I'll be starting my fourth year as co-president of Bernard's PEC supporting all those families who are just starting out on this journey and giving them the um advocacy and
encouragement that they need whether they're just beginning or that they're currently in the trenches and need a hand to lift them out. Now how will this variance accommodate our family dynamic? You'll see in our architect's drawings which Corey will go into. Um, we're looking to build a room off the kitchen
on the first floor that will act as a billiard's room as well as to reconfigure our second floor, adding a fifth bedroom. Why the billiard's room? In our current home, we have a first floor great room that we made into um, decorated and used as a
billiard's room because of my husband's love for playing pool and teaching our children how to play. In recent years, um, my oldest son, Joe, has taken over the room as his space. My husband's not too thrilled, but that's okay. Um, and he uses this room to reset and regroup himself when he's overstimulated by too
much noise or commotion. Um, to decompress after a long day, whether that whether he need or whether he need when he needs to separate from his brothers, whether he plays pool or simply colors to calm and reset himself, he values having the space. And quite
frankly, so do we. Uh, my hope is to replicate this room in our new home on Pittney down to painting it Benjamin Moore cottage red and bringing over the pool table, chest table, and his favorite recliner. Why the fifth bedroom? Um, our biggest obstacle with our son's behavior
is the unpredictability and intensity of his emotions and reactions. About six years ago, we began hiring after school began hiring high school or college students to help after school. Because of this, I needed to make sure I had someone to keep Louis and Frankie
occupied, my two younger ones, and playing when I had to uh tend to Joe's needs. For this reason, I need similar support from my parents when my husband travels for business. For example, just last month, I was insanely grateful to have my parents staying with us for the one night that my husband had to travel
to Atlanta. Um, you might wonder what my 67-year-old parents can help with. Uh, first, my mother's incredible. She could probably take down Joe if she needed to. Um, however, having them at the house as another adult to watch over me as I dealt with Joe was the comforting part.
Joe is my job. Um, and my mom is my support. As I was addressing Joe and his behavior, my mom listened from the hallway, making sure things didn't escalate and she didn't need to call anyone. She made sure Louie was comfortable and not afraid as he stayed locked in the playroom for most of the
afternoon. She picked up Frankie from preschool so I could stay at the house with Joe to make sure he didn't do anything destructive to himself or the house. My parents live down the shore and therefore need somewhere to sleep every time my husband is away. Additionally, my father has Parkinson's
disease and needs a substantial bed to sleep in as opposed to doing just a day bed or a Murphy bed. Um it's progressed to the point that he now needs help buttoning his shirt, putting on his belt, and pulling a shirt over his head. Therefore, he unfortunately can't stay home alone when my mom comes up to stay
with me and help me. Um, I just want to thank you for allowing me to share our family story tonight. The variance we're requesting isn't merely a structural change. It's about creating an environment where my sons can thrive and grow within this nurturing community. Our vision for the added space is woven
through the needs of our family, particularly for Joseph, who requires understanding and care. As we embrace this new chapter in Prince Edward Point, we believe that these modifications will not only support Joe's unique needs, but also enhance the quality of life for all
of my kids. Um, I hope you'll consider our request thoughtfully as it allows us to build not just a home, but a true home where our family can flourish. Thank you for your attention and support. Not going to follow up that with any questions.
Are there questions from the board? Any questions from the public? Thank you, Lindsay. Thank you. You're up. You've already been sworn in. Would you please give the board the benefit of your educational and professional background? Sure. Uh, I'm a licensed architect in
New Jersey. Uh, also in New York. Um, I went uh to college here in New Jersey at NGIT, graduating in 2013. I opened up my company in 2016, which is Total Architecture. I am the owner of the company. I am also uh the architect that
um drew the plans um and uh worked with the the Ponucci um to develop the plans and my license is in good standing. And have you testified before boards before? Yes, I have testified before this board about a year ago and other neighboring
communities. Welcome back. Appreciate it. He's accepted as an architect. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Fernandez, would you first start by just taking us through get into the neighborhood later if that's okay. Sure. If you take us
through the plan basic concept and then we can relate that to the neighborhood. Sure. Soon as I learn how to use the screen. It's not a touch one, but it works just like Thank you. If you would start by describing the house as it is currently and then how it'll morph the project is
completed. Sure. Uh I'm going to skip over this first page. This was submitted as part of the first meeting, but uh Mr. Cunningham has taken over the design uh on this u site plan work. So uh what we're looking at here is um three sets
of plans on this page. Okay. So zoom in. Um the top left is the existing first floor plan. Uh so similar to other uh houses on this block and we'll kind of get into it. There's a certain prototype and then there's
upgrades to that prototype. So, um the standard house is this rectangle here, which is a two-story colonial style house. Uh directly adjacent to that is um a two-car garage. Uh quite often it's one and a half stories, sometimes it's
two stories uh with usable space on top. Uh and then the um eating kitchen and family room. And we see here at the top are sorry to give us whiplash here
um are uh kind of extensions to the uh initial prototype. Okay. And what we're looking at here in the first floor plan is the expansion. So everything you see here kind of a gray line is existing and what you see in the post shade filled wall is
what's proposed. So, what's proposed on the first floor is a billiard's room um that's approximately 24 1/2 ft by 21 1/2 ft. Uh this I'm sorry, Mr. What's the last revised date of these plans? Uh
these plans were revised uh 52025. This is the original other than the first page which has been eliminated. These plans have not changed since the initial submission. Right. Only the engineering plans have changed. Oh, okay. Correct. only A101 has been resubmitted with the update uh of 52025.
All the other plans will remain at 2625 as the drawings that were submitted to the board. Sure. So I misspoke. I'm sorry. So A101 A101 but not the rest of the set. Correct. Just A101. Uh what was what has
been revised on A101 from the original submission is the basement plan which was added which has been clouded in this drawing. Uh so taking a look at the basement plan, we'll see that the new billiard's room is proposed over a slab on grade. Uh so that's no crawl space,
no basement underneath, slab more or less at the existing grade. And then to the right, we'll see a proposed basement walk out, which is a stair that goes from the basement to the ground level outside, which is part of a um outdoor
um pool and and deck project. Okay, taking us to the second floor. The top left is the existing floor plan. Uh so we can see that kind of rectangle which is the main house here. And then to the left is right now currently usable space over the garage. We call it
a half story. It's a d a dormerred space, meaning they're taking space and and using it in the attic. So as you get to the edges, you'll see a sloping ceiling. Um, so you get the same floor area out of it, but you get less head height as you approach the edges. And what that consists of is an existing
primary bedroom, existing bath, and walk-in closet, which serves the primary bedroom. Okay. The proposal takes that primary bedroom, uh, turns that into a guest room, which is the fifth room for the house, uh, and a laundry room to serve the second floor. And then the new
um primary bedroom on suite is constructed over the garage and then over the proposed billiard's room at the back of the house. Okay. And what we're looking at here is uh the east or the front elevation. Uh, so the billiard's room on this
drawing would be right right even with this wall here. So it's half of the bathroom and the walk-in closets. Okay. So those are two closets right there. Those are closets. Yes. The his and hers closet. Yep. Okay. So looking at the east elevation,
uh the way these drawings are read is that anything that's not filled in with a material is existing, right? So this is the existing two-story portion of the house. This is the existing garage below. And then what you see where we we hatch in and we draw in the lines of the
material. That is the proposed. So this section up here is the proposed addition over the garage. And that's the front elevation what's seen from Pittney Court. Okay. The side elevation which is the current garage. You can see the
current garage is here which uh existing remains as existing. And then this is the addition over garage. And then this lower portion is the billiard room. And the portion above is the uh closets and bathrooms that serve the on suite.
And then this roof plan we're looking at shows all the existing construction of the roof and then the added portions of the roof. The roof height at the peak of the uh new addition is still lower than the
peak of the main house. Is that correct? Correct. We can see that in the east elevation and south elevation where the existing peak is here and the new peak is approximately two foot below. Is there any whatsoever in the proposed width of the home.
No, the the frontage of the home that faces Pittney Court remains the same. Just to elaborate that through the drawing. So this would be the existing front of the home from here, this line to this line and the proposal does not change that.
Visually looks like a bigger home. Visually, this is a half story now with three dormers and now it's a full story. Like a house in a smaller part. Now it looks like one big house. We Yeah, we're going to show some photos that kind of represent That's what it looks like.
It's a larger home. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It looks like a garage before, right? Yeah. With dormers on it. The width is the same. The width is the same. Yeah. I think when we show some other photos on the street, it'll help explain.
And we're looking at the side elevation here. So, north elevation, you don't really see too many changes. This is the roof line beyond. And then the rear elevation. Uh we're looking at um the existing home to remain and uh the billiard's room and space
above. Okay. And that's it for the architectural drawings. What were the changes that the neighbor requested was that? Oh, that's all engineer drainage. Oh, drainage. Okay. Engineer. So, as promised, we have presents.
Should I give the originals to keeper? Would that be the best way to do that? Yeah. Do you have copies for everybody? I do. Okay. Yeah, that would be what? So, we're going to have um I reverted to litigation apparently and did PA and PB which would be PL.
So, how about A1, A2, and A3 years of practice? I don't think I've ever done Alzheimer's. Fernandez, I'm going to hand you and the board marked for identification as
exhibits A1, A2, and A3. Okay. While I'm handing it out, why don't you start with A1 and tell the board what it is there. Okay. Exhibit A1 is a Google
Maps aerial of um the applicant's block 21 uh Pittney Court rather and portions of Springhouse Lane and it has the tax map overlaid on it. We'll hit exhibit A1 with today's date.
That's fine. Thank you. Again, A1 is the large uh the map. A2 is the set of photos and A3 is the tax assessor's records. Agreed. Did you guys get copies?
We've got some Did you run out? We've got some extras. There's two A2s. So, Mr. Fernandez, A1 essentially is to just kind of show the layout, show the relationship of this home to the homes in the surrounding culde-sac. Is that
correct? Correct. It also gives us a little bit of a bird's eye in terms of the uh the floor plan size footprints of each of the homes on the neighborhood. Agreed. And then I'm going to ask you to
do is go through the photographs of A2 just so we don't get lost. They are all labeled in terms of what homes we're actually dealing with. as you're going through the photographs, that would be the time to show the board, you know, how these homes compare
to the subject home and specifically from a massing perspective. I can do that. So, I'm going to take you through the first four, five sheets, which is the applicant's home. Uh, so this is 21
Pittney Court. um uh the applicant's uh new residence and photo A, we're looking at the front. So, we can see that first prototype I really spoke about. So, the right portion of this photo is that twostory colonial and then the left half or left
portion of that home is the one and a half story garage with two dormer windows over it. Uh so, pay attention to that kind of massing strategy because we're going to see it over and over again on this block. Um, so a photo of B is looking down the driveway. Uh, this photo would
be the perspective that you would um see some of the new addition going towards the back of the home. Photo C is the back of the home. I think what's important about this is that uh the proposal is a much more attractive solution than the existing because that
dormer just has no relationship with any other part of the home. It looks like it just was kind of stuck on there. Um, so I think the proposed rear elevation has been greatly improved. Uh, and photo D just further elaborates on that. Photo E
is the picture of a shed and a tree on the property. And I believe this tree will be under Mr. Cunningham's testimony. Um, it may uh, I think have to be taken down to install the dry well. Okay. So, when we flip to one Pittney Court, lot 17. And I think this
is the best example of the base prototype of this home. Um it's basically as bare as it comes in terms of it's the twotory colonial home regular uh gable roof on that and then the one and a half story garage to
the left. Kind of no bells and whistles on this one. Uh we flip one page to 11 Pittney Court. Same home, but now we see three dormers on top of the um the house proper and we see two dormers on top of
the garage. Same home, but the massing appears a little bit larger because it has some additional architectural elements. Still within the context of the neighborhood, there's only nine houses on this block. This is one of them. 15 Pittney Court. Same prototype.
We see the h the two-story house. This the garage is on the left. Now, this home has had an addition on the right hand side. So, that lower portion, those three windows is all an addition above and beyond the original prototype of the home in the community. Uh, so this would
be more mass facing the street than the applicants, uh, but still in context in the neighborhood. If we flip again and we look at lot 23, Pittney Court, lot 13. This is hard to see, but this is still the same home. Uh if you count the five
windows in the front, that's the two-story colonial proper. This just has a large front portico built on it. Uh so it's kind of obscure from the what we saw at one pitney court. But we can also take a look at the right and the left. So on the left we have the garage, the two lower windows behind that tree,
which I believe is still one and a half stories, but on the right we have a two-story addition. um that uh once again is more than uh the applicant uh frontage when it comes uh to relationship of the frontage to the uh
street. So 23 pity let's just stop at that one. So they expanded the same way we did with a twotory addition but it actually made the home wider as opposed to being strictly behind the property as ours. Correct. It makes the home wider.
Uh and in terms of massing, what's visible from the street, visible from the neighborhood, um there's more mass there. And 24 Pittney Court, once again, this is the same home. It's um you can see the the five windows in the front,
twotory colonial. The garage on the left looks longer. It's got three windows instead of two. So, it looks like that was built a little bit wider, probably to the uh the owner's requirements for deeper garage. We can also see the two-story edition on the right
uh which is an expansion of the original prototype uh and more frontage than uh we are proposing as part of our project. And then when we get to the end uh 20 Pittney Court this is directly across the street from the
applicants. And I don't think this is the original prototype. Uh it's hard to see if that was ever in there. I think this is a different style home. Um but we can see it it is uh much more of a um massive proposal uh than um the
applicant is proposing for the project. And in addition to the larger mass of the home, they also have a two-car detached garage visible from the street, not behind the house. Agreed. So that home seems to be the largest,
but it's only about 38. Correct. I think what you're going to see inside the house is a lot of twotory spaces. So when you count floor area, you only count the floor you can actually walk on, right? So if I have a large twostory space with vated
ceilings, then that doesn't count as floor area for the second floor. Mr. Fernandez, in your professional opinion, when we're dealing with this issue of quote unquote monster homes and massing, and obviously since it's based
upon width, it's the street perspective that's of utmost concern. Is the fact that it's a twotory inner space versus a one story, does that make any difference in terms of the appearance from the street and the massing effect? No. No, I think it's arbitrary. I think
it's how it's designed. you know, if you design the home uh in such a way to avoid a lot of massing facing the street, then you can be successful that with a large area at the same time. So, the fact as Mr. Krauss pointed out that the floor areas between the two homes
are not that different from a massing perspective. It's it's a great difference. The floor area is just based upon the fact that it's separate floors interior. Correct. They went this way. Yes, they went wider rather than back. And they probably most
likely have twotory spaces. But when I take a look at that window above the front door, that's a two-story foyer, right? So that I don't count the area on the second floor there. And they have variable heights of the different sections of the house. Yeah. And those two large windows flanking the chimney.
My guess is that's also a double height space. Is it fair to say that assuming that that's the case uh that if those areas were in fact two stories, the floor area would be much much greater than the house reflects? Yeah, I think that's a
safe presumption. And then going to 10 Pittney Court, same prototype home on the the home proper, the garage to the right with two dormers and then a two-story edition to the left. again to the left and visible from the street changing the width of the home as
opposed to behind like ours. Correct. And two, Pittney Court is just sort of the odd man out. It's not part of the original prototype. It's it's uh completely different than all the other houses on the street. You know, if I had to take a
guess, it's probably wider of a home than 21 Pittney, but that's hearsay. See the square footage has got to go somewhere. Yeah. Before you guys go any further, just housekeeping purposes. So, exhibit A2
that is a pendium with photographs of property and surrounding properties 13 pages and then what exhibit A3 is this highlighted residential property assessment data. Correct. Do we have a source for it? Uh
the tax office website. Gotcha. Thank you, Mr. Z. Is this a good time to stop because it doesn't sound like we're going to finish this application tonight? Unfortunately, I'm just mindful of the time. We're past 10:30 here. Let's finish Mr. Fernandez, which
probably close to Okay, we're close to finishing his testimony. I mean, I I would ask the board to indulge us and I think Mr. Cunningham can be fairly quick since we don't Mr. Bank
challenging unless Mr. Quinn has issues that intend to delay. I don't have any I'll explain my position, but I don't have any issues with what I and I think the engineering could be extremely quick. How much time do you think you need? I'll pull the board. I I
don't like to go past 10:30 when we don't have to. It's been a long year. I think I can finish Mr. Fernandez in five minutes. I don't want to rush you. I just want to ask you how much time. It's important to us to try to finish obviously and I but I certainly respect your time. Mr. Pingham, do you think you
can go through your plans in 10 minutes? Yes. And I don't need to recall Miss Bie for anything else. Okay. Let me just check quickly with the board. No judgment um with on on your
opinion because obviously we want to make sure that the board is engaged and paying attention and stuff. So I'm going to the board yes or no whether um they want to stay for an additional 25 minutes. No judgment. I was going to say we I think we should be able to
finish by um um yeah I'm not going to poke the board. We're not going to have enough time unfortunately today because I don't I don't want to rush the board either in terms of being able to listen and hear questions and we have a lot of data in
front of us which is super helpful and we really appreciate seeing like like this but we also need to digest it and at the same time we didn't have it before tonight so we don't have our questions kind of preset um to some extent. So I'd like to I think we if How
much time do you need with um I I think we're just about done. That's what I was suggesting. Okay. Yeah. Um we'll give it another five minutes for for this testimony. If we can wrap it up, we can. Otherwise, we're going to have to carry it. Okay. So, I'm asking the board for five minutes to see if we
can finish this witness. We'll carry the case to the to the next. Can I just ask a procedural question? Yes. Um in order for carry this over to the next meeting, what's the requirements in terms of who needs to be available at the next
meeting? I personally will not be able to make July. Well, this is um a C variant, so technically we would be able four board members. Okay. We would only need four I I assume we'll be able
to see that for you. We could ask Miss I'll ask the board to stay for five minutes and see if we can wrap up this um testimony so that perhaps you don't have to come back. Okay. And then we'll carry the case to the next. So I just want to make sure I gave my client the right answer. Typically we would be the
first at the next meeting. Is that accurate? Yeah, I haven't looked at the schedule. Um, we're our only concern is if it ends up being multi-licate. We don't want to end up the same spot. Appreciate that. Miss Keeper, that's something we could
accommodate to to move them first to continue uh the application. Um, we only have technically we've got three on for July 9th. Okay. Does that include the one that we carried tonight? No. Okay.
So that would be four. Okay, we'll put you first. Thank you. Do we would we need an extension of time? Mr. If you do, I'll certainly provide it. That's not Okay. Thank you. Your extension? Yeah. Your time to act is
July 27th. Okay. So, Mr. Continue with this witness. Mr. Fernandez, in your professional opinion, I'm going to Again, the definition given to us by
Rumson, in your professional opinion, uh would our home and the applicant's home as modified, uh would it be built to a scale completely out of keeping with the homes in the surrounding area? No. Do you in fact believe in your professional opinion that it would be in keeping with
the homes that you've just described on this call center? I do. And do you feel that the proposal would create a home that would quote fail to match the fabric of the neighborhood? No. In fact, do you believe that it would be consistent with the fabric of
the neighborhood? I do. And just to confirm, despite the floor area that's shown on the tax assessor's information with regard primarily to the house across the street, but a couple of the other larger homes on the
culde-sac, is it your professional opinion that the massing and the quote unquote monster home effect uh would be more so for those homes, albeit not at all in this neighborhood, uh than the home that's being proposed?
stated another way. Are they more massive than what we're proposing? From the street perspective, yes. I don't think I have any other questions for Mr. Can I just ask what is the definition of frontage? Your fourth
column there. So typically frontage is measured at the street literally the front line of the property as opposed to lot width which is measured at the front line of the building of the homes. Okay. And in this neighborhood they are different because sometimes they taper
as you can see from the area. Okay. So that's completely on the street level across front is the street level and the building width which is or the lot width which is what we have to take into account here is at the building level. Okay. Does the board have any questions
for this witness? Does the public have any questions for this witness? One question. Oh, wait. Hang on one sec. You have one more question. Question is, um, this neighborhood is very tight. The houses are very tight, you know, within this block and the three or four blocks
of this larger neighborhood where um, neighbors behind they're very close, too. I mean, visually it doesn't look like it, but when you drive this neighborhood, you can kind of see the behind. There's no fences, not a lot of, you know, while there's a lot of trees,
they're still pretty fairly small, right? Does that impact make any, you know, does that matter at all the way that this house is built maybe not in the front, but back this way where someone behind's going to go, "Wow, I got a big house in front,
you know, behind me now." Or visually from the neighbor saying, "Oh, I don't, you know, the front doesn't look different, but the side Yeah. I mean, I've seen ordinances which restrict like side massing, which would be all right, your house can be 25 foot and then it has to step a minimum of two
feet. This township doesn't have one, but that's to restrict side massing. I've never seen any restrictions for rear massing other than what would be a rear yard setback. And this house does meet the rear yard setback. I would also say that the Algangquin gas pipeline easement is behind the house. So they
have a pretty wide easement between them and the properties on the back side which is all treelined. Okay. And the other houses that you were looking at, did they have a larger I'll say depth to them or were they all frontage? Well, I would say um
exhibit A1 would probably be the best image to look at there. And you can see that uh in terms of even if you take the one across the street with the very wide massing, you can see it's got very deep massing as well. If you compare that to across the street, 21 Pittney just
scaling with your eyes and your fingers, you can see they're relatively So it would be more similar to the one across the street from massing behind versus depth. But all right, if you take a look, go two to the left of 21 Pittney
uh with the pool in the backyard, 0.99 acres, lot 16, you can see that portion of the home that goes back towards the pool probably extends further than our proposal or or similar. Sure.
And Mr. Can I ask you the the in the intent of maximum floor area in this um in this zone? What is the intent to to having a maximum? Yes.
Yes. The area is regulated. So you're kind of you're basing it on the width of the lot, but you could make as we've seen some of the photos that look wider but don't have much floor area.
Those wider houses are ones that don't full two stories across that full and I said this before I was an issue with the way the ordinance is structured in that it doesn't take those
ceilings the two levels and it also doesn't count so you could have a sixcar garage setbacks and those two issues the
twotory indoor heights and the amount of space you have significantly affect. So I don't I don't think I think the craft a lot better. I think the intent being based on the width versus being based on
area that elevation. Thank you. Thank you. Other questions from the board? I'm gonna throw out a question um that can maybe be addressed next time.
Um I still look at this as we're over an impervious coverage and a look at the size of the billyard room and the size of the the rooms going above the um garage and billiard room. And I have to wonder and I have to ask the question, is there a way to scale it back just a
little bit? um so that it that so that the massing um and the impervious coverage just isn't um quite what it is being presented as. We can look at that. You're already taking into account the pool water. I
am. Okay. So, we're very close to the 20 once we we disregard that. Thank you. You don't need to answer that now, but I'm just saying there's a question out there. I think there was another any other questions from the board. I think there was a question from
the public. Thank you. Tardine 172 Riverside Drive. Um the guest room is on the second floor. Correct. And the master bedrooms on the second floor. Correct. And the three boys bedrooms, they're on the
first floor, I guess. Second floor. Second. Everything's on the second floor. Correct. Is the house going to be ADA compliant? I mean, the doorways will be wide enough for wheelchairs or the the hallways, the
toilets and stuff. No. No. ADA does not um Okay. It's not required in single family homes. Not a problem. We'll we'll breach this next time. Thank you. Okay. M That might be a good place for us to stop. Yes.
Okay. All right. So, this matter is going to be carried to the boards. What is July 2nd? July 9th. July 9th. My father. All right. The holiday. My Okay. So, the application of uh John Lindsay Ponucci
concerning property located at block 5502, lot 14, 215 quarter will be carried to the board's July 9th, 2025 meeting, 7:30 p.m. here at the municipal building on call your lane. Right. That's it. Um, no further notice will be required either by publication or by
certified mail. This announcement constitutes notice of the continuation to the July 9th hearing date. So, thank you. Thank you very much. Uh, may I make one quick request? Why don't I mark the remaining two exhibits and give them to you? Sure. And then we Yes, we'd rather
have what I just said and I will repeat it later tonight than the uh her replacements. I'll need to mail them to you. We're going to This
Exhibit A4. This is a compendium of colorized 3D renderings. Yes. Six pages I believe. Six pages dated today. I don't know if they are dated. So we can date. We'll date the exhibit today. Sure.
pages and then exhibit a proposed residence edition and I'm sorry, grading and drainage plan by Cunningham Engineering Design LLC dated June 4th, 2025. Any other examples, Mr. No. Okay. With
that, I will repeat what I said before. This matter will be carried to the board's July 9th, 2025 meeting, 7:30 p.m. here in the municipal building. U no further notice will be required either by publication or by mail. This announcement constitutes your notice of
the continuation of the July 9th meeting. I think that's it. Thank you. Thanks very Thank you very much. Have a wonderful evening 4th of July. Thank you. Thank you, Mrs. Sally. Same to you. Um number seven on the agenda, we're going to carry that to the next meeting.
That's the 2024 um annual report and recommendations. Is that okay? H got three minutes. It's really tough to sum it up in five minutes if we keep learning that. Okay.
Um comments from members. I think we're going to cancel our next meeting. Are our um uh the June Yeah, the June 12th meeting. We're going to cancel that one. Miss Kefir, any other comments for members?
Miss you, Cindy? Yeah, we Cindy, thank you so much. I mean, seriously, it's been a pleasure to work with you and um you know, all the calls and support that you've given us, there's no doubt that you made us all better uh at our job. So, we thank you and we're going to miss you. Well, thank you. I just want to say
that it has also been a pleasure working with you. You all work very hard at what you do and you're always so efficient and so prepared for every application that comes along. It is the township is truly blessed to have such dedicated
members. Thank you. I agree with that. I agree with that. Thank you very much. And um welcome Joanne. Hopefully got big shoes. Oh yeah. Hopefully we didn't scare you off. Hope Yeah, it's true. That That's a good point. That's a good point. Um Cindy, we also um have a card
and a gift from you and that's from all the board and the board professionals. So, thank you so much and we'll give you those at the end. Um any comments from staff? Just again, best of luck. Pleasure working with you. Like I say at the beginning, the best
True thing. That is true. Truth. Truth. Okay. Motion to return. Motion. Second.