##VIDEO ID:JA3EGbfJ9o4## be okay she e e e the uh it's my honor to swear in James Sasso or class one mayor design Ross sarino or class three or member and Bill Mar board member gentem stand and please raise your right hand and repeat after me I State your names do solemnly swear swear that I will support the Constitution support of the United States states and the state of New Jersey and that I will bear bear true Faith true faith and allegiance to same and Al to same and to the governments and to the governments established in the United States and in this state under the authority of and that I will Fai impartially and justly and perform all of the duties all duties of the office of planning board member the office plan board member according to the best of my ability and that I will not use my office to Grant preferential treatment treat to see personal gain favor or Advantage not avilable to the General Public public so help me gu congratulations welcome back and welcome absent mner yes Miss Geller pres Mr here Mr Morrison here Mr Sasso here Mr Sim here Mr Walden here and Mr Zar here have Forum at this time I would like to ask for nominations forers second any other nomination on tce no other nominations for chairperson um take a vote Miss Gardner yes Miss G yes Mr Morrison yes Mr Sasso believe I can vot the mayor point oh you can you can vote you cannot the ml the class one two and three members and all their members from serving as but uh all regular members had vote on the election yes Mr Walden yeah Mr Z yes and Mr and me oh my goodness I'm so sorry I Che you yes congratul over uh so we will be taking take to take nominations for chair chair serves in my place here so sometimes some of the emails sometimes is a back it's just the key so progress not a heavy compared to normal I'd like to nominate are there any other nominations Vice chair okay Miss Gardner no yes Mr gr yes Mr Morrison yes Mr Sasa yes Mr sim yes Mr walon yeah and Mr Zino yeah mrco will be our vice chair did anyone check I okay I thought it was let there be no doubt you can be elected chair or vice chair or any officer position in that sship I think there's an all joke about if they don't talk for meeting the election chair president okay next section is appointment of professionals administrative officer and newspapers um and five items here attorney St Warner F engineering expert Bob brightley in MOS planning expert John Zeo in the middle Associates uh the administrative officer provided by the buau who's also serving the board of and um and the newspapers uh for publication of legal notices the Bern news and the have take theirs said there is an emergency legislation that was enacted to cover the impending demise of print editions of the star leers any other papers to ensure that our notices and those of applicants public entities if the newspaper was in print and it goes to online only be live in that same official newspaper is automatically acceptable for notice purposes and the online supplants the moving we moving can we make a motion now actually if I may the the uh we actually have individual resolutions to cover every one of those coming up under sub okay I guess after thear so where bless you then we have the approval of the meeting calendar and and we needed some uh finding this calendar in general we would as a default have meetings was historically the second and four and couple of them been opiz so take a look at sheet she is it that for in the Deep summer month July in August there's this one meeting for one and in the holiday months November noral meeting I'm not pretty close on the holiday um the B Council and the board of adjustment um do the same in the months of July and August and of course there's no business to be held at one of these know that they should consider canceling comments concerns can I make one comment and it's not about the approval of this um not when Janise sends out the mail she ask coming not everyone responds and we don't want to show up and have a so I'm just asking make everyone let Denise honey if you know ahead of time you conf she sends out email please respond good Public Service Den the word subject well one of the things I thought about doing I just thought of it when you said f um I don't know everyone okay I could an Outlook that doesn't work should would it be easier if I do a separate email that is a qu check separate from the agenda yeah I think we we're asking for special attention to be in the subject you and walk letters and don't reply you should probably figure out do of one or something so that when people respond they don't only tell okay idea um do we need a motion to yes we can do it it's not we don't have a resolution for that one if we don't then we can do it by it is on here resolution number six this is all previe all right um so we need to go individually each yes well let's get there we have 25 bylaws if everybody's comfortable I think we're keeping there's no ml changes that require a change so if everybody's comfortable they were before can were no changes prevent people from requesting changes but none were mandated okay any discussion um so then we're we now progress to the actual resolutions and Mr chairman I will say that if we do it as if it were agenda type situation if nobody wants to pull any other resolutions or have any particular issues or nobs do that work or we do whatever thees well I have one change to do in resolution like the um schedule the schedule I'd like to have the line item for the cat technician removed so think Bob indicated they don't charge for that they it's not a a fun that they charge for but the weights in any case I think the easiest thing is to have it removed they need Reon iard great Ian I think the easiest thing is just drop the line item we don't we don't need that service remove it comment or so do you want to you can call for Resolutions 1 through 7 with the one modification right in essence the stipulated Elation and then you you can do them all at once need right so number two second roll call Miss Miss G yes Mr gr yes Mr Morrison yes Mr SAS yes Mr Sim yes Mr yes thank you for your continu confidence and ability represented I know Midnight Oil all right um I think um you can make this that state turn oh this is the conclusion of the annual reorganization portion of the meeting and we can now start great and then did you want to make any comment about yes the minutes will be for coming for the next meeting we no Communications we do have approval for the bill for those who are new the bills are in two sections there is a section that's um operating expenses which time the planning board and then their application their expenses associated with an application gets dra the for the application so that's and it'll indicate on which one which application related to any no comment then motion okay M gner yes Miss G yes Mr Graham yes Mr Morrison yes Mr sass yes Mr yes Mr wal okay um at this time if there's anyone here that wants to talk to us about something but it's not related to what's on tonight's agenda this is the first of few chances you to come on down and make the statement or ask question see none okay so we are now to the main event of the meeting which is public hearings section we are hearing one application tonight continuation for 53 Northtown road block 1751 11 and this is the lot that previously started so this is a continuation LLC on behalf of the applicant congratulations to the appointments and congratulations to the reappointments as youall some of you recall back in October where we began our presentation on our propos Qui service restaurant um you heard from our project engineer who took you through the site heard from our project architect we discussed its design and you heard um operational testimony from the uh co owner applicants we also heard traffic testimony from our traffic profession we had the benefit of many board suggest questions and comments that night we took those to heart we went back we grouped as a team and we had several plan tws since we've left them before you uh we were able to eliminate F variances when we were here that be reflected um their elimination will be reflected on the plan we removed the sidewalk withd variants and we were able to also eliminate M sign varas applicant between then and now has also hasi with the neighbor parking those are I think the major updates that I wanted to bring to your attention before we start um we are going to be recalling our project architect first to go rions then we back our project engineer go into his planner Visions um our project engineers both our plan so we thought the testimony would flow better civil testimony my only question before we call our Witnesses do they need to be res no we go by proceeding not by calendar so they remain under are there any sheets sheets that's those are the sheets the last rision date theion dat 118 not the architectural that I remember the okay these are then the new ones okay in oober all right question public nor we end up there have to speak have to speak up you don't have you don't have a laptop to stare screen I have my laptop than back his oh right is there security key interet broke says enter the network security key okay there's no internet open I here connect so my phone on the live yeah connect problem walking into the Bur wires I can move this little bit I can't if you could just just try and project please that's about the best we can do you remain on the road your name and address again record um s r l 9 Road Andes to accept you as an expert AR please some questions about and it's whether it's going to be a roof Mountain sign we brought the on down the entrance these are the architectural renderings that left state is that um you only Chang the some um architectural the November plans themselves but are those are them off the board you haven't done anything to change that since no reference the sheet number when you're going sheet by sheet so so referring to sheet Z2 the elevations some of the issue from last movie with the the canopy which is also the signage for so dimensions are 86 by 2 high one of the concerns about it is is that the canopies per the architectural standards that that's the guidelines requires that canopies be at least 9 above grade um sidewalk can be 5T deep um this is not a smaller canopy than what the minimum Dimensions indicated in the guidelines we're seeking approvable for this particular so um also the existing porch um this architecture uh this building resembles a residential type of construction with a front porch commercial buildings with the front porches part of the guidelines have to have a six foot depth this is an existing we dep but um this is these are the conditions um of the existing building with the just bring little to your attention theity those characteristics Qui question I just saw PL in the canopy that it's he did that add any size because of delays it's on the inside okay yeah to first entry the door entry door on the inside this can on and uh since the last meeting on the Windows have been modified to reflect the kind of some of the current architectural gestures that are on the building with some you know some with arched type of Windows and openings um they added a few more maybe Windows a little bit larger and take to consideration the transparency requirement um the as it is as a total surface area of 96 sare ft 175 ft of Blazing existing we're proposing to have another 30t of Blazing Val bringing into 2005 that takes us from 18.23% transparency which is not important for the transparency make it form with 21.25% so as far as the transpar otherwise um the um the other elovations are as previous some comments about coordination window Co that is indicated here um and um and just show seasonal C in the front tables and CHS and Lin but um it's the same plan so there were no RS in this plan since no no not not the floor plan no the interior July but the exterior were revisions with regard TOs and the side okay and the placement of the canopy taking off the bringing them down just a suggestion architectural you consider what wall treatment on the exterior you might want to consider next to the toils Ste there or something not reement right um the toilets the windows are higher they're narrower and higher AES yes as indicated on she Z2 noten if you look at the left elevation you'll see the side profile that's number side Bing the rear Direction the uh kitchen steps if that's for loading where you I know it's an ex anticipated suppes that from the west and drend can be carried it can be but you're only expecting it to be employee Ingress oh certainly yes it's not business can you just confirm it looks like you reduced the seating number by one but you added a handicap accessibility wheelchair but the total number of seats Inside Yes just the way that the configuration I just wanted to make sure that it did no balance there was two seats on the right now there's so okay it that's and I have questions got just have one question the the ramp access to the park space that sides engineer s um you can take question this at this point question only of this witness requ other Witnesses and'll be final chance to make comments in case at this point just witness no okay thank you to be M civil Eng also providing Mike once we set up okay so I'm going to be presenting uh D3 of eight and this is part of the package that was submitted to the board I will not mark it it's dat February 26 2024 revised through November 18 20 4 2024 and just to note there was a response letter that accompanied the resubmission um that was dated November 19th 2024 and this response letter addressed the comments from the board planners August 23rd review memorandum the board Engineers August 28th 2024 review letter so I'm going to describe the site plan changes um and as discuss the plan to rise to address the professionals comments and also the board comments that took place at the October 24th 2024 board meeting starting with the paring lot Provisions the Andy parking space was relocated be in the Eastern parking lot adjacent to the building um adjacent to the handicap space is a ramp that will have both sides the question Mr brighty this space Also serves as a backup area TR and the TR temp are provided sheet five therefore trucks might need to back up into the roadway a concern from the board based on our last meeting uh the parking lot composes 13 spaces in Space the 17 spaces are required therefore variance is being requested the parking lot does however dominate for the 39 seat restaurant which requires 13 spaces as the staff parking will take place off site uh next the sidewalk along moristown road is revised to be 8 ft wide which complies with the width standard a variant is no longer requested the site lighting is revised as the type of fixtures and locations were modified to comply with a maximum length reading of 0.5 candle I'm sorry 0 apply foot canas on the side of their property L therefore we're no longer variance uh the previously proposed roof mounted sign that required a variance is redesigned to be a canopy sign as described by the architect and which complies with the ordinance requirements um additional Landscaping is proposed for the Eastern parking lot and the variant is no longer screening the parking correct started uh the dumpster enclosure is revised to include a roof to comply with the board engineer comment we also added a bicycle parking area um which is located to the southw of the building that was to uh comply with the comments from from the board uh next the drainage design was revised to address the board engine comments describe that the curving is proposed along the parking lot and inls are added to collect the parking L runoff which is typed to the proposed storm water d off system um the architect had mentioned the review of the downtown district standards which is brought up at the last meeting to show how the building can compes or doesn't comply with that with those standards and u based on the review from the architect the building complies with all the standards except for two sections as mentioned by the architect which was the uh attachment standards for canopies um and also the standard for porches and the architect noted that the project does comply with the building transparency requirement which is a um uh improvement from the um current development existing condition so in in summary the project is requesting see variances um we have um U reduced the number of variances greatly from our first submission based on comments from from the board so we we thank you for that the variances include the rear yard setback based on the expansion to the dorm room number of parking spaces location of parking Park and set back to the property line for the side and rear number of driveways AC unit and Generator setback trash enclosure setback and the permitted building ATT attach standards with can and PES um a exception to the design standard is also requested for not providing a cal loading space so the the C1 and C2 criteria can be applied to our ask for a for variance releas the hardship component to the project is satisfy the C1 positive criteria is the location of the current building and it's proximity to the property lines which Brees two usable areas that are only on the sides of the building which is a uh special feature that impacts this property and view the development proposal on the PO the en urge is many the purposes of the ml to satisfy the C2 positive criteria we have purpose a to encourage and guide the appropriate use planing of the project is a use that's um uh permitted in this Zone and we're proposing improvements for Public Safety we also have purpose SE to provide adequate open space based on uh reducing the impervious coverage and proposing new landscaping for the project and also purpose I to promote a desirable visual environment through techniques and good Civic design by the Improvement to the building and site next for the negative criteria the requested variance as result in no detriment to the public H there are no rear yard impacts as the adjacent lot to the South is the railway property the West property line is directly chent to the parking lot that serves a commercial use the East property is adjacent to a a building um building uh the variance for the re building setback and variances related to parking loading setback of AC unit generator and traft enclosure are a result of the S hardship and have no impact to the adjacent properties the variance building and ta standards are tied to the current condition of the building building is being um upgraded in terms of now complying with the transparency requirement which was discussed at the last meeting the variance for the number of driveways is a result is also a a result of the site's hardship and uh reducing is the non condition that's currently there's three driveways and and we're reducing it to two um testimony by the traffic engineer at the last meeting and applicant support the variance for the number of parking stages based on the type of food service which is a quick turnover service that has stagger peak time and offers pick up and dve items therefore the park provided fits disuse and is supplemented by the employee parking which takes place on the project promotes uh many of the goals of the burough master plan the proposed use in in the DC in the DC Zone which uh promotes the buroughs downtown and also by proposing a new sidewalk and outdoor eating areas based on these reasons we feel the negative criteria is satisfying it's my opinion that variances can be Grant substanti de to the public good that it will not substantially impact the intent and F of the master plan and Z orance that concludes my testimony question is setic there markting some kind of setic ability the correct we're going to have to propose a new connection to public is it directly going across the street you are they going up down properties so that that design is shown on sheet four of eight where we're we're coming um the Sewer Lateral will will run towards the West uh based upon the elevation of the um existing sewer line in mortown Road um we're going to need to to pump the the sewer via Force M and connect to a new manhole in Mor toown Road and you're pumping it to the West is that it's going to go gravity on our property to the west to to a pump tank uh Thea force made to the north um under more like a multiproperty deal work out it's not there now right so it's justfor my understand well the section we're tiing into is is the gr section and we had uh discussions with with sewer um department and we we started those talks and ultimately we get through this meeting we'll provide a detailed design for that the pump how is it being powered going be powered by your generator or is it the pump on someone else's it'll be by the by the prop C property the prop their property going to make sure it's energized yeah here you're gravity okay so you're decommissioning whatever it is they had at the back corre and Bob right um fencing this property this property and the train Transit like see it's 5T is that the fence at the back of the property that's preventing you from falling under the train it's 5 ft is that height that's what I I don't care I care about SA and you you've had discussions with me Jersey Transit about removing all the encroachments that are at the back of the property the back you know that you're have to rip all that out correct yeah there's there's um Hardscape miscellaneous features that are going to turn into a law essentially the has mentioned that after we get through our meeting we have further talks with them discussions I can see what you're planning to do I just they know anything they were they were notic as part of the project that's different than as you talk okay have you had discuss the newy transit on your gracious intent to remove the encroachment that your the prior owners the applicant has indicated that they haven't done that yet but they will after uh will be a condition you know it's easier to do it before they've got the fences up and easier just now I don't know what Transit will request in terms of any they might requ on site do that work below the TR because stuff fall yeah any work that could to train and and your point Steve I don't know what we would want to put in as a stipulation the board if the board is requesting and they stipulating to cleaning up that area so the review and approval we give it to but but they first will stop train does is there anyting proposed um very minor they have their encroachment included um almost a site wall that in proposed conditions really has no purpose um and it was an encroachment from a fire property owner where they were I guess storing different types of things um as you can see on sheet the the upper view on sheet two off the property so we're going to um restore the grapes and look pretty L know they leverage and level land lay down the ters basically and and storage stuff there right because then because right beyond that area it's SP so will be disturbance on I think you need positive response from New Jersey Transit said no but neveress we're anticipating it as condition they could abandon it technically it's New Jersey trans that section and improvements and I guess they're going to they would need to disturb that property line to put the fence in you know like I'll LIF up a Royal Papers put the post in for I'm suggesting response right that's a condition I'm just the time I think they were looking you're composing one the think everything to the east of the current dinging to alling to whatever it is to take up that makes sense old we're going to have to that's correct and one question on sheet to the east of the building squ is that what is that rectangle that's to the east of paring spes thect just so everyone uh this on the same page in plan View North is at the bottom East is on the left yeah West is on the right and if you look at you look at the West property line you see there Aang okay yeah that's the U that would be the proposed pump tank pump tank right the gravity your pump tank and then you're so exiting the pump tank so you're going to press correct you're going apply pressure to get it out of your pump right and your pump will run off be supplemented by your generator a as a bom is that subject um not in this case St requ it doesn't me day it's just yours yeah I don't believe so either from the T to the Sewer but that might mean you have to pump to your TGG simp3 and I talk to the Sewer uh Department about this um that that was what we wanted to do is go gravity to the exis but upon the invert um elevations and the crossings in the roadway we went gravity we would have conflicts with the other Pikes within that within the road so the suggestion was to go via Force M um I'm it's a shower one Cor Chinese silver sure abut uh no it's not propos so sidewalk along the driveway walk driveway on the driveway surface connection they preference on the Sor take two minute break or just in light of the fact members taking a break make board members sure like one of those so we just look at whether you should have the sidewalk in both entr notes yeah the key is to be how do you reach yeah put traffic how do you how do you need the current sidewalk and get into the facility you know what do you do and as a default it's like well just walk in the driveway you know that's okay well okay should be should be pedestrian tra that's the point I think the OBC is we need pedestrian traff from from the sidewalk without going on the driveway service sure we agree and then that's um can you mention there was one thing and you did mention it quickly that that you would arrange for a parking uh arrangement for think the employees but Loi with a neighbor um 37 more Town Road it is just but they've been delting records to sec a v lot I think it's it's idea of the number of spaces being sought something you can only four spots in how the curve is four spots it's mking no further down from the bank they us do the deposits under great like public needing to navigate that turn so basically you're using that small to use that small it couldn't be I think that the outside anyway that's right now I think there are barriers in road to keep that get open to your employees make sure your employes using anybody how do you prevent it's going to have to be signed it says for that's all that can fit right I think that's what you said so you're going to need signage there it says for the employees you know Reserve parking for your employees so include that possible on that employe you need employee only parking on signage unlock 37ar to do that as part of your be able to doation and then I guess is back up at that ultimately thei pulls through it's a term it's a Le you know it's a duration and at some point if you're looking signage has to be there so that people will not just anybody half circle to think it's you you know obviously what do you do no right Dar par now dar any can turn into that provide you can have employ signage but's what else it's got to have to say something if could say private parking it's got to say something that Circle that the barriers are going up it's now there just has to be something there that says I told you you can't find otherwise it's fa game anyone can par take their chances we'll out and that's only one option right now you know this parking agreement would be one option they're still looking into other options but Mr chairman with the understanding um you would like our four spots um identified somehow doesn't have to be parking for this exact they needs it's 37 is the owner of 37 needs to put a sign in there that says it's private parket spots are they don't this has to be the public has to know somehow that they're not allow you get need anything else on the board provided both both um engineering and planning right oh yeah C C2 we it okay you got positives negatives all right anything no DEC but the standard is no substantial that that was that's all he had to any from the concerns at this time at this time no um spe there two there two proposed Drive based on do regulations no it's have you any Feb for the record um with respect to do correct that the five fa regulation only one drive be committed they have comments at on you have or they have told us Central that we need to provide them a written neor request to two driveway there it's a major access so it's not limited to the one would be necessarily so going for with that current conditions there is it one Big Driver the C come up a little bit Bas just anywhere so just I thought you would say well we're making it better yeah we'll be requesting pretty pretty substantial change everything that's there is a to the time of the day that Del be made well yeah I had last time I had delies delies only during non operational hours the oper 8 a 9M Monday to Sunday 8 a 9M Monday through Sunday yes so are you going to be coming real late or real early really late because I go to bed at 9:00 weekends not on Monday through Thursday does that also um include the trash pickup because trash pickup we have a as uh daily all operation day daily private pickup we didn't have specific to the hourss like handic area and make a turn in there for your so also non operational but not late at night 9:00 when sleep Saturday no okay Steve so you want to no no you're absolutely correct so now anyone from the public who would like to ask ask a question or make any comments about this application pleas welcome to come on down and we now some suar only to take about minutes take you um thank you very much for your time um Mr chairman and members of the board and board professional um this has been we think a beautiful adapted reuse of this property a great project to start um the applicant owners are really excited passion for food to bring to the community um and and trly thank you for all the suggestions at the October meeting I think we now have a grounded gel con seeds project both in design and programming um and with that we hope that you act favly on our application this evening and thank you very much with your permission sorry I Den told me that I forget put it on the record but so all our board members evening are qualified we're not here at the prior hearing cor and they've either signed the certification or they will so the sign board members to vote this evening I as aary final major s plan with Rel as follows onite number parking spaces it's changed from 12 ver 19 to 13 ver 17 meaning 13 propos 17 that's parking deficiency minimum building set back the door is a vertical extension 1.3 ft in the re yard set Backus 5 re parking record anything we parking required parking on both sides side yard versus rear yard parking only sidey parking 2.6t to the E Line versus 5 foot minimum side setback and yard parking setback rear yard line set sets maximum number of driveways two proposed one maximum permitted the eliminated the sidewalk parking area screening screening part required whereas not proposal beond that but um in any event this variant believe to be granted there now they've eliminated the roof mount sign because it's now sign all correctly uh we have accessory setback Varian is for the exterior AC units the generator and the track enclosure and each one of those is a separate independent exess set accessory set that variants and I have design waivers has no loading space no formal loading space this is one loading space required just add the two building related standards yeah pores this section of the ordinances lb 126 the commercial with the front we didn't have the six dep was it was the second one my I wrote down but I didn't down be clearance OT minimum those two additional design we um all that relief is being sort I don't think there's anything else uh and uh five out of eight for Passage motion to approve the application final site plan and the variances for 166 no sorry 53 and conditions which I didn't go through the plan the planners memo stop at release planers memo Engineers memo daily private TR pick up for operating hours clean up the area near New Jersey Transit with affirmative permission of do uh Li SE to 39 seats maximum as we by that right uh the the uh Liber non-operational hours nothing larger than boxu increas the sidewalk and satisfying transparency requirements of the uh design standards which we testified to they do um there was a revision to Windows satisfied um offsite parking lot permits for all employees uh the for spaces and uh requisite signage and 37 down Road or in the alternative pursuit of alternative spaces including but not limited to the train station for those four space employees only installation of bike rack which is already Prov near the SP which is already provided for plans Pump Station D approval required if if if I'm sorry e approval if required to be obtained a Chinese silver uh GRE silver GRS uh the exchange for Native species uh ped despian connection between the patio and the sidewalk along marktown Road do waiver for the two driveways as well as of course as always all out all all agency approvals outside leave is there a question about whether there's a necessary they said they put two guard rails on the Ada spes the testimony so we can we can make that a condition I think the engine I'm sorry the engine there you go often times a traffic engineer plan but sometimes civil never the law so that's our relief that's all the s to conditions so I'm going to assume the motion to approve is for all of that relief with all those correct thank second we have a second Sor yes Mr gr yes Mr Morrison yes Mr yes Mr s yes Mr wal yes and Mr yes thank you very much be wanted to discuss the format of the meeting and whether um we should consider adjusting it in any way in terms of participation so you have the one we've been using left here that's position going in are there any present any discussion so meetings are broadcast over zoom and the public can comments via zoom and that means that every doesn't here issues and that's why doesn't have was very helpful to me I was under the wed I was able parking and think it opens up opportunity to participate I I think that very vulner but it might be something that we consider also perod MERS I just think the flexibility is something to consider not sure what the of adust that's let me let me give you the other side people that offer comments by then there cramin gets thenation com comments testimony if I Mr chair it's a policy decision that for the board and to the extent necessary the governing body provide resources some input from the governing body and administration but as we know that during Co we all got better at zooming uh World got better at zooming uh some of the and um couple of things number one the even the co emergency procedures made a distinction between governing body and meetings and other types of deliberative meetings versus land use board planning board and Zoning Board hearings on applications for development because those hearings are qu our judicial proceedings and there are certain constitutional principles that have to be abided by and there were some difficulties for example to this day we don't have you can't technically you can't properly swear someone inote if you if they don't have I take that back if they don't have the screening uh because you technically can't see them raise their right hand and what do you do I mean I've had people said just have them swear that the right hand is raised well okay let me see ra your right hand swear that they the the um to give you an example uh so it's not the same it's my only point they it was a whole set of procedures even for the emergency protocols for for handling all public body meetings but then separate for applications for development hearings for Planning and Zoning had enhanced standard of standard reason you know procedures so you have to be able to fully see and hear everybody and basically when you're dealing with a hybrid which that would we would become it's not my decision but uh uh the people who are remote have to be able to see everything and everybody uh and hear everybody in person and the people in person have to see and hear everybody remote we have to we should be able to properly swear everybody in uh and uh there's even credibility determinations that the board makes some witnesses that for example if someone were remote but they didn't have their video on you know you can not everybody is capable even today I don't mean today Lally but I mean you know not everybody's able to do it so it adds Dimensions or levels of difficulty and then I'm not even mentioning the we had a significant problem a couple of years ago as I recall um that um with a not hijacking short about but but uh the uh and it was um it was very significant and it was very disturbing detrimental for those involved watching listening so uh and I think shortly thereafter uh you know determinations were made that maybe we need to do things in person at least for the time being I say all that just by way of sort of history and flavor and context not for me to decide uh if the governing body and the board wish to do all remove to do hybrid in my opinion in person is the quotequote safest love safe uh the next would be remote and hybrid is the most difficult because of all the inter reactions and Inter relationship and problems BL like so the different configuration so we know what we're doing today right you're present and you participate or you're remote you're watching right there's a mode with the same facilities where Sher could be remote watching and we could enabled her speak but not anyone else there's no weather not we do that a lot I I'm just saying we have potential Choice saying it's listen only if you're in the public but with the same I believe in the same technology and watching we we have the ability to allow our board member to speak on the same session selected selected you could when you say I haven't I think I'm yeah we would do that yeah that's just doing technology as if you know we we had issues with Forum getting people to particip visitors tce meeting back to the public that that's not the that's the portion of the meeting that's not a hearing on an application right that's what I'm saying so you yes you have more leeway you're less vulnerable Those portions of the meeting absolutely correct so yes there's a section there you could say okay we would let the public raise their hand and we unmute them it it's the technolog is there we've all seen that it it's it's not infallible humans who try to work it well then that relates back to the comment that you made which is there's a caveat that says if anything at all happens to the technology too bad it's just not available sorry can't participate they have no remote access jeopardize an application because the owl dies said so no sorry don't P like tonight the architect couldn't get the plan on screen question well another we do an entire application another thing is our technology here is not very sophisticated so one of the things that Steve mentioned about if we were to try and do it for the whole public for public hearing portion the people that are remote need to see everything in the room and everybody in the room needs to see everyone here well we don't have technology to do that like we would need big sces throughout the room so that a couple of places in the room so the public could see everything there and then we would need Camas so that the people that are on Zoom per se could see everything in room but I think there two different things here I I would say your comment is inaccurate for the aspect of an application yeah that has a publicon correct I think what Steve was saying someone saying is business not application business visitors so not so sure business of visitors has to be available forever going to the C not understanding why they could only participate at get to like three or four different scenarios for every you know Mee so right every meeting is going to be a different scenario when do you make that justification or when do you announce who can do what when where and then when you have somebody that wants a comment how do you tell them they can't because of which scenario we're in at that point it just gets very convoluted running into all these different so you want like what we have now is kind of default oh yeah so I'm thinking what if you know if a meeting came up like we had you know another huge meeting where we thought that this place was going to be overflowing we could potentially ahead of time sit down and say hey should we or should we not potentially alter some rules for specific upcoming or something well no have a big meaning we just have to get a different stock we have to get a different location that's not something that you want to throw or something like that I would say that's something you just we go for a bigger location Library ceter entirely got you know Zoom webinar everybody used to doing it doing it right my my as I said before I think the safest is in person second is completely remote in my experience you run into more problem trying to do the hybrid but again there's plus PES to everything in life so how hard is it technically though to have the variant that just says it's just like it is today except if one of us is participating board member m because even before Co before all these you know rules came years the the uh there has been for a long time in the ml conv allowing board members to participate through the ter is electronic equipment that's how old so so yeah so and again though you know if you're going to participate as a board member and an application a hearing on a development application I wouldn't want you just on the phone saying yeah I can't see anything but you know I get it you know you gotta you know certainly would want you to be able to see and hear everything uh they can see and hear you but respect you hear thinking that varant I mean inally it could provide convenience to the board and I would have the we might had Chad here couple meetings last year instead of none I would also say my experience with that not perhaps not surprisingly it should be the exception not the rule because people shouldn't just assume oh I can come in remote all the time we never have anybody here months yeah the intent was to help Ensure you know they could watch it pass anyway as a away having to read it you know to look at the transer they well I heard of ite I was in years ago used to the sudden guy running sure he was lying on the watching the had questions came questions run raised his hand and said I have a question can Board number if there remotely listening and unmuted can they vote if they can hear and see everything uh yes they can I believe they can I know they can participate in everything else the business but I believe they can also again well everybody was yeah we had had everything was just pure until certain evening things change a bit after that would be potentially an applicant favorable comp anding it remotely yeah but no it's still provided for in the and I mean people could argue anything they and do but doesn't VI not aiv I we all believe that person particip leaning for letting I mean it's helpful that half of the summer meetings no longer but kind of leaning towards allow board members to participate prospectively if you do allow that you get more people that are willing to participate and serve on the board myself I travel a good amount it's be very difficult get flight all that make i' rather stay in a hotel missing situation one night sat in on listen but I mean I do believe it's best for us to be in person but you know God forid what you can't be there for a board member to participate do we what technology do we need to add to be able to do that because if if if someone's using the computer they're showing something here this is where we see everything from if they just have board right we don't have a camera to show you that board but do does anybody else need to see that member if the board members participating remotely do they need to be seen they need to be seen yeah I you probably as I said before it's more that you see it he everything as opposed to if showing something on the if somebody showing it from their computer but everything tonight we have you would have had everything tonight in front of you on the couch looking some one of these and says oh IED it and here it is okay you're not going to necessarily have certainly conceivable I can't speak to the technology they send school for a reason they don't want me to touch anything break it they I'll leave that to the it profession the other good thing about just making it available to before is that I don't think we have to announce anything we don't have to change our our statements our policy for the public it's really amongst us that you know we're making this capability Avail available again so it's good sense whereas if it's like oh everybody in the public so that's that's going to change some of our official documentation that I sure doesn't make sense to your talk or administrator and see what options might be available to extend necessary to enhance our we need to enhance our technology for purpose of at least the board members works now are we good now I think I think we're good now to your point I think the council I mean she asked for open public comment it's a different issue legally is that this is judicial that speaks to the issue that it to me people in here the picture there differentology they do the same need get they do the same you ra your hand orever and he a little we wouldn't need any we just theard so can we leave it that Denise will find out what our options are beyond what we know we have does everybody want to think about it think about there's any other way like to address or just decide to techology I suggest that i' still feel more comfortable if the needs both with the administrator just make sure we have what we need to do it and and there no issues and then maybe next time we can have a our bys more V consistent it also give me an opportunity to triple check I know provision but the triple check theion a little while and make sure there's no concerned we could make that determination next meeting only form and a little exra time to take about over okay that's my legal I think Denise can find out what the particular are for remote participation when needed all and the board will do more detail analysis ofion make sure person the rule the exception okay have to get so obviously that yeah them all to you already yeah make sure you get air real very TR that's