Mr sh's ready good evening I will call the order the meeting of the bethleem city council finance committee I am Grace kampy Smith chair of the finance committee the other committee members are Hillary quch and Rachel Leon the clerk will please call a
role Miss kmy Smith present Miss quch present and Miss Liam present other council members present are councilwoman willham there is one topic on tonight's agenda that involves three proposed ordinances one proposed salary increases
for elected officials YouTube reminder if you started streaming this meeting after 6 PM please make sure to scroll ahead so that the YouTube stream is current rather than a recording of an earlier portion of the meeting we'll start with public comment is there anyone from the
public who would like to speak on the agenda item tonight with a five minute time limit okay Mr sh biller 1890 Eaton Avenue well I thought at least one person should come from the public and say uh raising these salaries are a good idea in fact I argued for
that a couple of years ago and uh and also have another item which may or may not be appropriate at this time this is the finance committee so I thought possibly it would be uh timely inappropriate to talk about the idea of
the city making a significant Grant to wlvr but if you think it's uh uh not uh not quite appropriate now I can wait until the next council meeting yes I mean unfortunately this we have to go with what's on the agenda and
the salary increases is the only thing there's no courtesy of the floor and items not being voted on tonight usually for committee meetings it's not it's only with what's on the agenda thank you all right okay thank you anyone else want to speak Mr hacket hello my name is Bud Hackett and
I live in Bethlehem and have for many years since 1990 I I had to look that up today um I would like to I would like to comment on the the pay proposal I guess I also should should
reveal um I'm not a member of the same 10 people Club but maybe if I work harder I can I can do that nobody gets that joke uh the pay proposal opens the door for public comment on pay and
performance the stated assumption that more pay will bring better quality candidates is questionable it says that in the proposal that it's will bring more higher quality candidates yes we need better quality
people as mayor and counsel but I don't think the uh that money is the motivation that of many political people I don't think it's your motivation for being here political motivation or incentive is usually hidden under the guise of
Public Service a euphemism for political power and activity the thrill of being on stage and having people applaud is euphoric and intoxicate and and an intoxicating motivation for the
political personality by the way I thought it was somewhat offensive to highlight the child care expenses as a rationale for salary increases you know avlog hundreds if not thousands of hours uh uh coaching
in this city coaching girls and boys over the past 20 years I don't do it right now uh we don't do it for the money and yes the costs of doing volunteering for your community is considerable as I said the proposal
opens the door for comment on the relationship uh between pay and performance personally I'd support an increase in pay for mayor and councel if there was some agreement on goals objectives and
outcomes that is performance if you achieve your goals you get more money paying someone more just because the other city does it is not appropriate paying someone based on Merit of how they perform on the job
should be part of this evaluation and consideration that is my major point in these comments Merit pay is a mindset people who work in the public and nonprofit sectors look at things differently than people who work in the
private sector who pay taxes and support the public sector I happen to work in a world where I must produce Revenue three times my compensation at a minimum otherwise it's someone else who
could do the job that has happened is there anyone in the administration or Council that has that kind of experience it might be helpful will increasing the mayor and Council salaries result in better
outcomes of the citizens of Bethlehem I'm not sure but I think it's incumbent upon you to determine that I've been watching betham Council for about five years or participating in watching Council for five years I want
uh city council Bend to many political wins who will forget defund the police cancel culture homelessness housing whatever popped up on the political agenda I have
never ever ever seen Council focus on the agenda topic saving the taxpayers money put that on your agenda some some meeting maybe every meeting
it's always been about spend spend spend thank goodness President Biden gave the city $34 million to allow and encourage the city to spend money on many social issues that the mayor wanted city council wants more money how
about managing the budget in a way that benefits the cities uh the citizens and the taxpayers how about a more clear analysis of the costs and benefits of proposals instead of just approving because it meets your political
objective I have examples of that and I am out of town out of time have more to say but I will respect the clock thank you thank you thank you okay no one else from the
public we will discuss agenda items one and two and relate them individually to items three through 5 and then consider moving the proposed ordinances on to council I will call on councilwoman wilham to discuss her memorandum outlining the proposed salary increases
for elected officials that are the subject of agenda items three through five thank you chairwoman uh good evening members of the finance committee and thank you for taking the time tonight to discuss salary adjustments for city council the controller and the mayor thank you also to members of the
public who've come tonight and members of the administration who are in attendance I appreciate the opportunity to give a a fuller sort of sense of the picture from my perspective um than what was on the Mayo the memo uh so I want to begin by acknowledging the somewhat
unusual position that we're in on this body having to consider adjustments for the compensation for Council as we ourselves sit on this role um as such I think it's important to begin with a clear reminder um and just to let folks know who are paying attention that any
changes that we approve wouldn't take effect until after an individual is reelected so there's no guarantee that anyone voting on these increases nor anyone in the roles being evaluated will personally benefit it's entirely possible that none of us will benefit
this is not about personal gain but about ensuring Fair compensation for future council members as well as future controller and mayor all three of these positions are foundational to our City's governance their compensation should reflect the
responsibilities they hold the public seems generally to agree unsolicited comments suggesting an increase in both Council and mayoral salaries have been made at annual budget meetings and support has been shared since this memo was posted so I just would like to lay
out a bit of background about each of the three roles being considered for increases starting with city council for 16 years council members salaries have remained at $7,100 for council member and $7,600 for president
from 2006 to 2009 Council saw a salary increase of $200 per year but there's been no increase in Council salaries since 2009 again that's 16 years this compensation level creates a barrier to some qualified candidates
particularly yes those with child care expenses I also don't have child care expenses but I'm sensitive to that uh those who must forgo other income or those who simply cannot afford to dedicate so much time for such a modest return it's worth mentioning as
it relates to child care in Pennsylvania on average parents can easily expect to pay anywhere from 7,000 to 14,000 per year per child for full-time infant toddler or preschool care so this is not just about a raise it's about ensuring Fair compensation
for the time demands of this work which we all know firsthand are significant council members not only attend bonly meetings we spend hours of prep and research engage with constituents attend committee and Community meetings represent the city at multiple events
each year and much more I could go on looking at our neighboring uh communities of Allentown and Easton we do see higher based compensation rates for Council in both cities so I I believe it's time to explore how we might adjust Council compensation uh to ensure that serving
on this body is a viable option for a broader range of our residents with regard to control ER from 2006 to 2009 bethlehem's controller saw a salary increase of $1,500 per year there's been no increase since 2009
again that's another 16 years this role is vital to maintaining the Financial Health and transparency of our city government the controller is the steward of our taxpayer dollars ensuring accountability and efficiency this is a highly specialized position that
requires significant financial Acumen often demanding certific ations and advanced degrees so their expertise is not just desirable it's essential I know we all value our current controllers careful oversight and the peace of mind that comes from knowing
that our finances are in excellent hands uh on to the mayor it's been 12 years since the mayor's salary was adjusted here in Bethlehem um bethlehem's mayor received an annual salary increase from 2006 to 2013 with an average it varied more or less but an
average of $2,200 per year there's been no increase since 2013 we all know the importance of this role making critical decisions that impact every single resident of Bethlehem in Myriad ways it's been pointed out by members of the public
during more than one series of annual budget meetings that all of the city's department heads earn significantly more than the mayor and an increase has been publicly called for unsolicited again Allentown and east's mayoral salaries exceed
bethlehem's while there are many angles at which to look at the matter this is not a one rationale issue the basic premise is that it's been many years since salaries were evaluated and increased and I think this review is overdue I believe we can find a solution
that's fair responsible and reflects the value that we place on these essential roles in our city government I'm eager to hear others thoughts and ideas on how we can move forward with a plan that makes sense thank you for your time is there anyone from the administration
that would like to comment no okay do the committee members have questions or comments um I have some comments and some questions um I'll start I'll start with the comments um because a lot of them have to do with what you've talked
about uh I would agree that metrics is is really important however we are in a political structure politicians by Nature there's no way to really say this metric matters to every side of the
aisle or there is very few ways Paving the streets is a really good way so while while I agree with that it's just very difficult to decide what is a metric and what isn't metric more than happy to talk offline about that um and I would agree that money is definitely
not a motivator but it it can be prohibitive and and that is that is just factual it can be prohibitive if you do not have uh the financial means or the family connections to have someone care for a child um or if you're working night
shift for the extra money you you would never be able to serve on Council council's always happening while you're working on night shift but maybe an adjustment in pay would allow people to work a day shift because they could take that Financial hit so money is definitely not a motivator but for people who are highly motivated people
who are very in touch with needs it it can be cost prohibitive for them so I just want to make that point um but I do have some questions for the administration uh I guess the first one would be is there any way to make an
adjustment in salary budget neutral if we maybe not if we did it all at once if we staggered it if we did the controller one year the mayor one year Council one year or over a series or over a series of years where the impact to the budget would be Bud like could we find a budget
neutral way to do this uh I guess the idea you mentioned about staggering the increases would probably be beneficial versus you know going from the current 25 to assume all the changes
all in one year if I look at the proposals on on the grid that was presented my estimation is about 30 $35,000 which is not large in the scheme of our budget but it is $35,000 so it's not budget neutral in that sense there
something would need to be you know additional revenue or something would need to be cut in order to make that fit in uh if and I think this was done in the past this all happened before I was on Council in 2010 last time most of these or any of these were changed it it
appears to me that they they may have been completed that in that way that it moved up maybe a, or500 a year over three three year period what both what is existing to what the proposed would
be all right so I'm just looking at this it would going from smallest to biggest it seems like the controller would have the least impact on the budget then it would be the mayor then it would be Council because council's just across so many people is my math mathing correctly
there yeah yeah Council changes about 175 you know when you put 3500 per position position all right and I guess um oh it's actually time six yeah I'm sorry you have the council president broken
out I'm just looking at the chart yeah so I guess like those are those are two questions wrapped into one can we make a budget neutral the best way to make a budget neutral would be to kind of stagger although probably when it comes to council it would be hard to make that
one budget neutral because just given the amount of people it would be so maybe that would have to be done at a time where okay but it's not necessary sorry you're fine all s people want you know because it's you're elected so it would
be it would be staggered based on the the year so like I got that um so so are you talking that the existing is 7,100 yeah to go to eight in 26 to 9 and 27 10 to 28 is that no I just meant if we
staggered the what if we did that what if we gradually tiered it up from Seven yeah to 10 yeah that that'd be seven because you're talking about the six council members and then yeah if you had the council president it's a little bit different but it's the same idea about
$1,000 it' be easier to absorb it into you know any proposed budget that we bring to you next year versus all at once all right so that's H those were two of my questions which was can we make it budget neutral um um if we what
if we stagger um and then the last one was just because this came up in a in a budget hearing um if council did go forward with this would we have to have a veto proof majority in order to get something like this past like say we
chose to start with the mayor and like we not saying that we're staggering I'm just saying on on my train of thought here if we did stagger we chose to start with the mayor I know you're not him but do you think would need a veto proof he hasit take to speak for the mayor in his absence of course not at the committee
meeting tonight I know he did speak uh when this was brought up in I think it was a council meeting not a committee meeting they said that he would not you know sign for his own raise I think that was on the record but that was just what he said on that
evening um I think my my final Thoughts with with this would be uh I I know the dedication and and love I I bring to it um I do worry about what comes what comes after us and making sure that they are being compensated
fairly nobody lives on Council forever um but I acknowledge that it's always difficult to be the elected that proposes or votes for it it's I can't I'm still very torn about it but I do think that if this does go go to
council um which is where it would have to go ultimately we would have a responsibility as a full Council to decide where the money would come from how we would make it budget neutral I don't think that it's just our within our the three of us to to decide where that would be so I I wouldn't recommend
to council where to cut the budget or where to adjust the budget I think that's something we would have to make a decision we'd have to make the seven of us um but those those were all the thoughts and questions I had about this okay councilwoman quch do you have questions or
comments I I don't have a lot because I I ALS so you know I'm turning this over a lot in my mind um and glad that we'll have the ability to discuss it as a full Council if we move it forward if we move these Concepts forward tonight um I do want to say that uh anyone who thinks
that people run for a city council for the Roar of the crowd and the um the fame and agulation um hasn't been paying very close attention uh it's it's um I love this work I'm so glad I ran and I'm running
for real ction um because I believe there's still more work to be done I don't think that uh necessarily the characterizations that I've heard here tonight about what we do are are accurate um from not from this side of
the the desk but from the other um and uh it is we we do kind of chuckle sometimes because um we are uh when we think about how many hours we we do do put in if you are committed to this work
there's a lot of hours and uh that does include all the things that uh councilwoman Wilhelm mentioned um you know we serve as liaison so there are additional board meetings there are working groups um if you really believe in the work that you ran on you want to
be involved in what the administration's working on and have your voice there that's many hours of of more meetings um there's a lot of emails that come in from Individual constituents with concerns and and issues and we you know
do a lot of Outreach to department heads and other people um I think there's a lot of work that doesn't really go recognized because if you help one constituent um that person's grateful but the 78,000 people of the city don't necessarily know that you've done this
um so I just uh felt the need to say a little bit of that tonight uh again not um entirely sure uh that you know I want to move I think I want to move this forward so that we can have the conversation in in full
Council um and I appreciate um councilwoman wilhelm's um desire to see that uh people who who run for office and and work so hard um do get a compensation that's commenor it with that finally I would say that um we have
performance reviews every four years in this role they're called elections and people are they have the right to decide whether or not they think that we've lived up to uh what we said we wanted to do um whether we
performed well um in my own role which happens to be a nonprofit I have a performance review every year and I receive a merit-based increase if I have achieved my objectives so my objectives don't happen to have anything to do with raising uh
with with uh making three times my salary in in revenue for my organization because that's not my job um but there are a lot of people for whom their job isn't to bring three times their salary into an organization and uh they also
get fairly compensated and get reviewed and get merit-based increases so it's a big complex world of jobs out there that people have and um and they are uh judged in a variety of ways and the way elected officials are judged is in
elections and so I will come to the people of Bethlehem this year and ask them if they'll give me another four years to try to do my best and that's I think where we'll find out if I have that's
all thanks do um any other council members have commas or questions councilwoman Will Ham do you anymore I did have a Qui quick question with regard to you mentioned that the mayor had said at one of the budget meetings that
he would veto uh a salary increase how does that work you know this is all put are these put forward as three separate he can simply veto that portion of it that's what I would understand I I think the set up was three separate
resolutions three separate votes three separate signatures across a mayor's desk yeah so the way you always split up would allow that to happen just want to make sure that's stated here tonight that's it for me y okay thank you
um I guess I I have a lot of questions and concerns but one um you know Mr Evans is I guess I'm thinking budget budget wise um if we we propose this and and we send
it to council and it gets voted on then what do you do as far as finding the funds I mean that's it's almost like it'll be really worthwhile to know that we the funds would be available or that we would not have to cut anything before we
consider this but it sounds like that's not the case it's sort of going to be backwards that we can yeah it's a chicken and egg I see what you're saying yes they decide that now and uh it'd be similar to the way we begin to set up now there are I want to call them fixed costs but costs that we are
aware of the debt going to 2026 we know what that is our pension numbers our MMO we know what that's what so we place them in and we even place any salaries that are required by ordinance in as well into the expense lines and then and
uh I build from there as we build the budget both on the expense side and the and on the revenue side so yeah difficult decisions are need to be made and cuts are made in every single budget I I I think the best way if if we move into that phased approach where it might
just be you know much smaller might only be $5,000 increment uh change in a 2026 budget if if it was you know moved up like for counts of $500 at a time over the next four years possibly so it's not it's not uh 21,000
that might be this 3 or $4,000 next year it's a lot easier to manage it and and do it year by year that would be my thought but uh at this time but yeah there's there's a timing difference so way the law is structured the decision needs to be made
now and we won't have real a lot of firm numbers for another six plus months on the budget okay so it sounds like we're really um we don't have solid financial data on voting on this
because if we vote on it as is proposed it's a matter of trying to find the money unless it's amended to make it more incremental then it would be easier to find the money naturally because it would be less money yeah instead of taking the hit all
in one year it would be a small escalation like like the so because it has been as was mentioned the memo it's been you know well over a decade on each and any of them and there's now there is a gap into into what anyone comparable um is able to offer as far as
a compensation package to to council members so to get it you know at one time for example the you know what councilwoman willham and mentioned was that the mayor made 90 thou 9,500 since
2013 and if you go back and look at that compared to where everyone else's salary was it was in line with the other his directors are his department heads and you know that that's now become quite quite a difference than what the mayor's salary is and what the other members of
the administration are because of that 15 year lag or you know 10 to 15 years depending which position you're speaking of well it is um it's difficult because it's not often that you see um employees that they get to raise their own salary
um and I'm also feeling uneasy about the fact that we don't know budget wise where we'll get the money to cover the cost um so while while I have a lot of concerns I think I would be in favor of taking it to full Council just so that all the council
members can have um import regarding this not saying that I would be in support of it but just so that everyone can have UT anyone else have any comments yes um I think that that's I I just want to that I think that's a good idea to bring
it into full Council because if we're going to flesh out an amendment like if we were to amend to to stagger or anything like that um I think fleshing that out with everybody on board so we don't have to continue to redo it might be uh be helpful because I feel like if anywhere this would be amended at a full
Council we would need all of council support anyway so I think pushing this to council so that we could all discuss is is the best path forward okay thank you unless councilman willlam unless you want to consider amending it I mean I don't know if that can happen before the council meeting no my I mean my I
propose these numbers with the understanding and hope that there would be thoughtful discussion around them I presume there would be so I I'm also in support of allowing all seven of us to discuss it together okay all
right good okay I'll accept the motion in a second to recommend approval of one or all of or all of the proposed ordinance listed as item three through five to move this matter on to council so move second the clerk will please call the oh I'm sorry one or all three
what's motion Oh I thought the motion was to consider all three well it says it's listed as yeah we can we can list it as separately if you would like or do you want to combine them I can I have maybe a motion to combine I'll make the motion to combine
second okay please call the roll on the motion please M quch I miss Leon hi Miss kmy Smith I okay so now I will accept a motion and a second to recommend approval of one or all of the proposed ordinance listed as items one through five to move this
matter onto full Council so moved second clerk will please call a roll miss quch I miss Leon I miss kmy Smith I the motion passes this matter will be moved on to full Council the meeting is aderen thank you got