All set. >> All right. Very good. All right. So, let's call to order our special commission meeting for today, December 8th, 2025. I have about 6:06 p.m. Um, Madame Clerk, would you uh do the roll call for us, please? Mayor Groth
>> here. >> Vice Mayor Anler >> here. >> Commissioner Gonzalez. >> Commissioner Huntington >> here. >> Commissioner Samra >> here. >> Mr. Mayor, you have a quorum. >> Thanks very much, Madam Clerk. Could we do the pledge of allegiance, please?
right? So, let's move on to public comment. Um, same public comment rules apply. Uh, we'll start with those here in the log cabin. We'll move on to Zoom if any. Um, and uh, please uh, please remember that public comment is limited to three minutes and please provide us with your name and address. So, we'll
start with uh anyone here in the log cabin that would like to get us started. Going once, going twice. Okay. On to Zoom. Do we have anyone on Zoom that would like to provide public comment before we move on? Please raise your hand and the clerk
will ask you to unmute. Going once, going twice. Okay. Um All right. So, public comment is now closed. Let's go ahead and move on to additions, deletions, withdrawals. Um, as I understand, uh, we have, uh, one
presentation, uh, that has been asked to be removed from our agenda. Is that correct? >> Yes. Um, Mr. Mayor, 7E has withdrawn. >> Okay. So, 7 is out. Um, are there any other additions, deletions, or withdrawals at this time from the commission?
>> That that makes we're moving up 7F to 9:15. >> All righty. Okay. Any others? Hearing none. All right. Okay. All set. Uh, do I have a motion and a second to approve the agenda as it's been amended? >> I make make a motion to approve the
second as agenda. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I Okay, great. So, our agenda has been amended and approved. Let's move on to our presentations. Um, so, uh, we got a room full of folks here this evening. Um, we appreciate you being here with us and spending the time. So, uh, as you've
all, I'm sure, have been made aware, our presentations are going in order with respect to the agenda 7 A through E. uh and uh the format just as a reminder that there will be a time for a presentation. Uh I think what we've done here in accordance with the schedule is allotted 45 minutes to each presentation
that's inclusive of questions. Um and so I would encourage uh to be mindful during your presentation that uh the 45 minutes is inclusive of questions from the commission. Um so uh with that in mind um for anyone that was unaware at the conclusion of our regular agenda
meeting last week uh the commission uh made a decision to well we'll see where we get to tonight. Um but I think that the intention of the commission is to move forward a candidate um a top two candidates if if necessary uh that the commission would like to move forward
with retaining uh in the village attorney position. So that's the the understanding the intention of the commission here this evening. Uh so without further ado, uh if there's nothing from the rest of the commission on that point, um I'd like to just go ahead and get us started. So is there anything else from the commission before we get started? >> Your mic, your mic's off.
>> That I would ask is if we I know we're picking the top two, but I was thinking if we can just um grade the the all five and then the top two that are selected would be the two finalisters because you can have two different people. Not every commission is going to, you know, you
might not have the same commissioner. You mean like rank them that we've done in the past? >> Rank them in the past and then whoever has the top two that will be, you know, when you add up the points or whatever points we just I don't know. We just have to do something because it could happen that we
two nobody's going to have the same two people. >> If we want to do it that way, I think that's fine. If anyone only has two attorneys that they'd wish to to move on and see, then that's fine. But we can do it that way. We can say this is my top one. This is my top two. And then we'll just see where we have on consensus. Um,
I think that probably makes the most sense. >> Any disagreements? >> No, I'm okay with that. I just had a question. So, in terms of procedure, >> um, are we going to open questions uh, per commissioner, you said a certain amount of time? Are we having discussion
at the end? How are you moving as we go along and review in the different firms? How do we um have a discussion among ourselves or is the idea to leave that for the end and we have a conversation? How's the voting process going to happen?
>> The way that I would would imagine that this would work and and certainly anyone can feel free to disagree is the way that we did it at least, you know, I compare this to our last manager search where we tried to depending on time limit to maybe a question or two questions per commissioner um as time
permits. Um if there's additional time left over and any one commissioner has maybe another question they like to ask, I think we can use it. But, um, that's the way I kind of foresaw us doing this to say, you know, ask your a question or two questions. If they're quick, maybe you can fit in three, but we just have to I it's really the 45 minutes and kind
of use it as as we see fit. Um, I don't know. Not every I don't think every presentation is going to be the same in time. >> Yeah. >> Well, we had the last time with with when we did the city manager, we had each commissioner had a certain amount of time limit and they were allowed to ask whatever amount of commissions. Like
I I got lucky. I had five or six questions that I didn't think I was going to get to and I was able to get to those questions. I just think that we with each of the presentations we need to be able to have questions. >> Well, so then why don't we just take it by a presentation by presentation basis depending on how much time is left over
because if someone takes up 40 minutes with their presentation then there's five minutes left. We can't dedicate we can't give every >> The way the way it was I remember carefully did last time we gave 15 minutes for the presentation and then it was 15 minutes for the commission questions. Well, right. We have 45 total for each. We want to go 30 and 15.
>> I I agree with the 15 for all. So, it's fair. And then whatever time's left, um we can start with two questions per commission capped at a certain amount of time if you all feel comfortable. >> The 15 for all uh for >> the presentation. >> Okay. >> We would have 30 minutes left. Correct.
>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Um so, you know, maybe it's five minutes for commissioner to ask additional questions. I think the questions are important to ask. >> That's fine. >> Um >> I have no problem with that. 15 minutes for presentation I think is fair for
all. Um and then the voting process. Should we wait until the end and we're staying until we uh arrive to the top two? That's what I'm trying to >> That's what I kind of imagined it would since we can elevate the two that we want here this evening so we can make a decision to move forward so we don't
leave it for another meeting. So uh does everyone up on the commission agree with that approach? Nope. >> What are you looking to see? >> I I just think that the questions that the commissioner asks are very important questions that need to be asked because
you you get to see how I mean, you get to see how the the commissioner judges each of the questions. I mean, my conversations that I have, I've met with all the attorneys, every single one of them. So, I already know what their answers are, but the public needs transparency is what I look at it. We did that for the city manager. they can
have their presentation and then we have uh ask whatever time limit you know that you have. I just think questions are important. >> So you you think you have more than five minutes worth of questions. Is that what you're saying? >> Five. Yeah. Five. Five. Yeah. Five 10 minutes worth of questions. I don't have just one question to ask. That's
>> Well, why don't we why don't we start with the five minutes and then we'll see where we end up because it's giving everybody the same amount of time. >> Okay. All right. So, uh, having said that, hopefully, uh, everyone here understands the process going forward. We'll give
you 15 minutes on your presentation. Uh, if if you feel that you really need more, just kind of let us know, but we're going to try to stick to 15 minutes. Uh, and then we'll give each commissioner five minutes uh, of questions on back and forth. So, that's the intention. >> Mr. Mayor. >> Yeah. Go ahead,
>> Mr. Mayor. if I could. >> Well, let's intro uh let me uh >> Good idea. >> have a chance to for our our attorney that's sitting in uh this evening, let him introduce himself. And we're happy that he came here and he's uh taken time out from his busy schedule to assist us
in tonight's procedures, but I'll allow him to introduce himself. >> Mayor, commission. Hi. Some of you may recognize me. My name is Andrew Dun. I'm a board certified attorney in city, county, local government law. I am not here tonight to apply to be your village attorney and that is why I'm sitting in
this seat right now. Um what I'm here for tonight is to assist you in making a decision if there's any sorts of legal questions that may come up. Um I've looked at your applicants. All of them are very qualified. All of them are capable of doing the job. I have personal relationships with some of them. I actually said professional relationships with some of them. So
you're going to have a hard night. Um with that said, there was one request or at least the discussion about having uh the people that are not presenting wait outside. Since this is a public meeting noticed underneath the sunshine law, no one can be excluded from the meeting, including those that are
presenting. However, because these are competitive, so to speak, proposals to the commission. If someone comes up after they've heard someone else's um someone else's uh pitch or their presentation, so to speak, it's something that can be considered that they had the opportunity to consider
what the others have said and rebut. Um so obviously the first person would have the be at most detriment with the last person having the most benefit. So it is something that you can consider because the first person now might not have the opportunity to address something the last person heard uh can because they've
heard absolutely all the others. So no one can be required to leave, but it is something the commission can consider if a candidate or a presentation directly relates to something somebody
else. So that's that's the uh rule as it relates to exclusion of people from public. >> So the takeaway is that we cannot force someone to not be present if they choose not to be present. Okay.
Okay. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you everyone. >> The best day for you all to be outside. >> Yeah, >> true. >> Madame Clerk, >> is is okay. It's open. Okay. All right.
Well, there's air conditioning in village hall and no mosquitoes. Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. Uh All right. Well, then it looks like we're ready to move forward.
John, you're up first. Madame Clerk, are you able to to keep the timer up for us just so that each presenter can see it in front of them? Our game clock, so to speak. Thank you, Mr. Manager. >> 15
So, John, whenever you're ready, the floor is yours. >> Yeah, sure. or that was you. >> Yes. >> Sorry. >> I was ready to give the city manager credit because usually he does that but this time. Thank you.
>> Where's it from? Nice. I think we're ready. Okay. So, we now figured out what uh to to assist you in setting those policy directives um and to accomplish the
goals that you set uh for us um as well as for you as a body. We invest in your concerns and we will celebrate along with you your successes. We will work tirelessly to accomplish those successes and those goals uh as we move forward if
we are given the opportunity. Um, a little bit about myself. Uh, I will serve as your lead attorney. Um, to the extent that you don't know this already, I have previously worked here as your village attorney on, uh, twice
on an interim basis. Um, right after Mr. Hearn uh, departed and then um, also uh, after the departure of Gay Robinson. Uh I have over 30 years of experience in
representing uh municipal clients uh and counties. Uh I am board certified in uh city, county, and local government law. Uh only about 2% of attorneys in the state of Florida have that certification. That's important in my
opinion uh because it indicates and um a peerreview process that uh has determined that I have the qualities and I'm held to the highest standard under the Florida bar rules and the practice in this area. I think Mr. Dunciel has
mentioned earlier before that he is also board certified. I think that in the context of the people who are applying for this position here this evening, I'm the only one who has that board certification. I have sat with uh and advised u city
counties uh across the state of Florida. I started my practice as an in-house attorney in the central Florida area. Uh eventually moved down here to Florida. Uh I mean South Florida. I have family here. Um and initially u working for the city of
Sunrise. After about a year in that position as an assistant city attorney. I was recruited and joined another law firm here in South Florida that has a very significant governmental practice healthman and was with them for eight years. Uh after that I uh transitioned
to uh Sterns Weaver Miller uh and assisted that firm in establishing their land use in their local government practice. And over the course of eight years there we represented a number of different municipalities. uh my during that time frame and all the
way through my next law firm uh which was Greg Robinson for a period of six six years uh I was the city attorney for the city of Marathon down in the Florida Keys for a total of about 16 years uh representing other municipalities during
that time frame as well. Uh and as I mentioned before on two separate occasions uh was the village attorney for Biscane Park. Joining me as part of the team would be uh Vincent Cordlesa within all president
in our Miami office. He's an associate. He's been with us for a number of years. He has a particular uh expertise and and thirst for knowledge, I might add, in the area of municipal law. Uh it's something that he uh had repeatedly
asked me and repeatedly has uh since I no longer do government uh or represent cities as a city attorney, you know, keeps asking me whenever he runs into me like when's when are we going to get that next city. So he's very anxious and and very committed and uh to
representing Biscane Park if we are given that opportunity. Also part of the team is Diane Geller. She is resident. She's a partnership resident out of our uh um West Palm office. The reason why Miss Geller is prominently listed here is because she
would be the attorney who would be doing your employment matters. That is all she has done uh for uh her entire career. She has assisted me as uh the employment attorney and all of my representations of local government agencies during my
tenure at uh Fox Rothschild which includes several uh housing authorities as well. Other members of the team include um go through them very uh quickly and very
Arlene Kennedy. She also at one point in time was a member of one of the prior firms I mentioned, We Serreta Huffman. She then uh went to the state of Texas where she practiced for uh a number of years uh as an in-house attorney for the city of uh San Antonio and then
eventually moved over uh to the uh transit authority that serves that San Antonio greater metropolitan area before coming back here to Florida and joining our firm and she assist and she has municipal law experience. Uh Mr. Dearia
is listed here. He is a litigation attorney and the uh eventuality that that may become necessary. He would be the lead attorney. Uh again, it's important to note that Mr. Di Maria is also board certified in um commercial litigation.
Uh again, only 2% of attorneys in the state of Florida have that type of certification. Um um other members are Sarah Coleman. She is a uh associate in our litigation department.
She has assisted me in representing a number of different uh private and public clients on a different on a number of litigation matters including proceedings before the division of administrative hearings uh for the department of revenue uh water management district etc. So again, she
has a lot of that government experience um behind her. And then uh I also have listed uh Heather Ree. She and in conjunction with uh Miss Geller are the primary attorneys who would be assisting
uh uh the team and the village in the uh employment and labor arena. The next couple of slides that you have before you are uh some recent u representative experiences of work that we have done uh including uh a special
call election uh and a uh nearby municipality uh city manager contract uh advising charter review committee uh on items that ultimately went before the electorate. Um standard thing that we do
obviously is the review, revision and finalization of all ordinances uh resolution contracts that go that come before you. Uh as needed we help and assist your judicial boards,
code enforcement board uh etc. You all um obviously have not only your planning board, but it also serves as your architectural review board. Uh and again have experience in in assisting those entities in my prior uh tenure as your uh village attorney.
We will attend all meetings as directed. We will also have regular hours uh at village hall. Um we will um you know things that we've done and this certainly I would anticipate we potentially would do here is to look at um things such as the employee employee
handbook procurement. These are things that I know that from my past experiences were issues that the village uh was dealing with when I was your attorney. I don't know if they've been completed or if they're still being processed. I know that there was uh uh
you all engaged an outside uh consulting firm to update your land development code. Again, those are types of things that we were working with and continue to work will continue to work with your staff and your consultants on an as needed uh basis and and certainly um uh
we've successfully represented multiple municipalities uh across the the area in litigation matters if and when that becomes necessary. Most recently, we um handled a a construction dispute u involving the city of Hollywood. We were
representing the city of Hollywood, and we were able to secure a um 1 million plus settlement uh in favor of the city in a dispute they were having with one of their utility uh uh companies that damaged some of their infrastructure
during a storm water project. Uh we do have the a transition plan. We would uh meet with you all. That would be the first order of business. Meet with your your managers as well to identify your priorities and your your
your immediate needs, including what's going on in the form of litigation to make sure that nothing falls through the cracks. Uh that's a very important thing. uh and to the extent necessary potentially schedule uh shade meetings with with this uh body to go over the
status of those items uh if that is and uh deemed to be necessary and get direction from you all to the extent that it it it is again necessary. We would uh develop and implement that plan so that the uh elected and appointed officials, staff uh and we are all
working together to meet the village's legal needs and policy directives. And um one of the things that we pride ourselves on um historically is maintaining an open line of communication with all of our elected
and appointed officials. uh we would provide you with regular communications whether that be email by phone uh and if it's so directed we would provide you a monthly written report on status of all the legal matters that are pending um uh
at whatever given time in that report is due. And we've done that in many municipalities uh very successfully uh to again uh not only keep you all informed but as mentioned by one of your uh one of the commission members letting
the community know what's going on uh from our standpoint. And ultimately, our goal is to meet and exceed the village's short and long-term uh needs uh as they relate to legal services and to implement the policy
priorities that have been established by village uh commission as we move forward. Uh that is really the end of my presentation and I am available to answer any questions that you have uh with respect to that the presentation
what I've just said as well as the contents of our um proposal that we provided to you as well. >> Well, I have 15 minutes on the dot. John, thank you. So, um uh we'll go ahead and we'll start with our our five
minutes uh with each uh each commissioner. Just going to start down here with the vice mayor and then we'll just move down the the line. Uh so vice mayor, you're up. >> Thank you for the presentation. I appreciate it. It's very complete. Um so one of my main uh concerns coming into
selecting the attorney as you know with the importance of the role is independent thinking and independent advice and counsel for the entire commission as well as the manager. How do you um make sure that happens? And I
think my pri prior question to that is how how did you get to hear from this position? Um is there a relationship? Do you know the manager? How do you know the manager? And again it goes you know in hand with the second question how do
we make sure if you do and you have a history that is still um you know uh separation of of thoughts and powers and all of that. >> Um very appropriate question. Uh the answer to that uh vice mayor is yes. I do have a prior relationship with your
current village manager. I I actually had a I do have a relationship both a friendship and a professional relationship with your two managers ago. Uh Mr. Diaz, uh he and I worked together uh in a in a nearby
municipality uh for a period of time. My uh relationship with uh your current um manager, Mr. Childris, dates back to time that we were both working for the city of Dorado. Uh initially uh Mr. Childris was, I believe, an assistant
city manager. At the time that uh when I was at Sterns, we were Miller. We were the uh city attorneys for the city of Dorado. Uh and then um I left that firm, went to another uh the Sterns Weaver
Miller, he decided to resign from the position being the city attorney in Dal and the city of Dal um sought me out and I ended up becoming their city attorney uh with the new firm I was at at the time which was again uh Gray Robinson.
And so obviously I had an opportunity to work with uh Mr. Childress from from that point forward until uh eventually I left um the position attorney in Dorado. I also, full disclosure, had an opportunity to speak to work with uh Mr.
Childris, not necessarily directly with him, but through um um the city attorney when he was the city manager in the city of Key West. Uh prior to his joining the city of Key West, I had already been engaged by that city through their uh
city attorney to provide um special counsel work and I continued to do that uh after Mr. Childress came on board. as far as how do you keep that separate? >> Um that's what this job is about is meeting
that professional um standard of care. Uh and at the end of the day uh let me make it absolutely clear my obligation and my loyalty is to the city commission and to the village of Biscane Park, not to a friend, not to someone who I've
known and have a personal or professional relationship. that would hold true anywhere. >> Yeah. >> Um at the >> there may come a time where you know Mr. children or I or whoever may be sitting in the the village manager seat have a
dis a disagreement on an issue that uh pertains to a legal aspect and you know it is my job to uh make sure that what is being done in this in this village is in fact legal and um if the situation
arose um then I would obviously bring those issues and those concerns to the commission's attention and get direction from the commission on how to deal with I'm sorry. I'm sorry I got I just got you because I know I have five minutes so I'm trying to fit as much as I can. I have one more question and then I'll
move along. Um so one of the things I was trying to understand is how this process went about our prior firm was hired through an RFP and RFQ which is normally what we've seen and we put out a you know bidding you know this professional services is not required by
charter but in the case of the manager for example we put a job description right which in your case would be a scope of work and we go ahead and and ask to see who applies within that and to what extents and what cost. We went backwards here. Um, I wanted to
understand how were you okay accepting the job at a paying range of 125 because prior so I was going through the timeline that was prior to receiving or us even discussing the scope of work that was presented to us. So I'm
guessing you know what a municipality does uh and it's easier to assess you know more or less that the range is okay but it went backwards. So I I wanted to understand we started at 1375 your proposal stills with 125 which is what
we've seen everybody come forward. How did you assess there was enough for the village? >> Sure. Um the uh Mr. Childress reached out to me and to the other firms as I understand it as he explained it to me
and inquired if we would be interested in submitting a proposal uh or to be considered for this position of village attorney. >> Yeah. >> During the course of those communications that as I understand Mr. children's had with the other believe
it's now five firms down to four or maybe exactly the number at this point uh conveyed to all of us what the parameters of the work was provided us with the proposed scope of services and uh you know uh I indicated to Mr.
Childress uh that that the parameters of of of the position were acceptable to me that I could do that. Um I >> got it >> very candid. I told him I said if anything under 125 no. >> Yeah. >> So >> you know that's the baseline for the
firm. >> Uh so I I I think that um you know I've seen this process uh evolve and and and be handled all different ways and different municipalities. I've seen, you
know, um municipalities uh uh in some instances ask me to leave my position within that municipality and they had someone ready to go the next day. Uh on the other hand, I've been
part of an RFP or RFQ process. Some instances took five, six months uh to complete. So, I've been through and I've seen them all. Uh, and that uh the process is what it currently is. That that's how I ended up here
before you this evening. >> Perfect. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. >> Absolutely. John, thanks for the presentation. Um, I appreciate you being here with us this evening. Um, I think, you know, during our one-on- ones, I covered a lot of what I wanted to talk about, but I just
like to hear from you and and to have you explain to the commission. You you have a little bit of a different perspective than the rest of the candidates because you you've been here before. Um, so you have a little bit of the benefit of of having experienced, you know, the uh the the level of ask
that Biscane Park has. Um, Madam Clerk, can you start the timer, please? Okay. Thank you. Um, so I just want I'd like to hear from you in your own words, having the experience of having been here, having the experience that you have, being board certified and everything that you've explained to us
so far and provided to us in writing. Can you explain to the commission and to our public what is what's the most critical and important aspect of being a village attorney generally and here in how you see that kind of translating to Biscane Park? I I think the the answer
that I'm going to give you applies to everywhere that I've worked and that is simply to be your legal advisor to um answer your questions to assist each one of you individually and collectively as a body and your staff to eventually and
ultimately to implement the policy directives that you all give your manager and your attorney and to make sure that those U functions And those services are provided in the most cost effective manner and the most efficient
way and successfully uh to again do all the things that you want us to do. Um yeah, I I've I've been in in that seat uh actually it used to be over here uh back when when when I was on the uh uh
on the deis on the other side. And you know sometimes it can be uh an uncomfortable place to be in but you know what that's what you hired us to do to help you all with sometimes those uncomfortable and those difficult
situations and those difficult issues. and the commitment is to help you get through those. Uh that's our job uh as a village attorney and it's what I would bring to the position whether it was here or anywhere else. Um you know it is
uh interesting that the you know I was here and and looked at some of your past agendas. A lot of the issues are still out there um and still need to be resolved. um you know uh garbage medians
um you know your relationship with FDOT uh and and I I be really honest and tell you that the biggest issue that I think this community as well as every other municipality in and and county in the state of Florida face is what's
happening in Tallahassee particularly for this community where you all don't have that very diverse um uh uh tax base and you're you're almost literally 100% reliant upon your your residential tax base to fund your services and and your
municipality. And that is at risk of being taken away by the legislature. And that's going to create a a real issue for uh communities such as yourselves as well as all the other communities in throughout the state and how to address and to uh convert over uh you know
because as as Florida, the legislators want to do well, we want you to do this, but they don't provide the implementation plan. It's just simply do as we say, and you know, uh, good luck. And I think that's really an issue that
this community is going to have to deal with, uh, and if it does come to fruition, um, struggle with and and overcome. And certainly in the test, but it's just incrementally other things that are happening. And I think last but not least, one of the key issues for
this community is preserving your character uh and maintaining what you you have and what you are um as there are pressures from outside and from within to you know build bigger uh newer uh and things of that nature that um you
know you had as issues back then and you have today. >> Appreciate that John. Thank you very much. Commissioner Um, thank you for your presentation and thank you for our conversation that we had. I learned a lot in a conversation
that I had with you. Uh, we have a small community. Our commissioners are really residents who have volunteered to help guide the village for a small amount of money. Our commissioners are not career politicians. How do you support a commission that may need a lot of support without overstepping uh your
boundaries? um making sure at the end of the day that what you are doing is legally permissible and uh proper. I it's um sometimes you lead the horse the water
and you hope that the horse drinks from that water. Sometimes it doesn't. I have been in that situation where you know a uh elected body has decided to go in a different direction. And my job is to inform you as best as possible all your
available alternatives and the ramifications of each one of those alternatives so you all can make the best decision, most informed decision. And then it's my job to support that decision
as best I can and be aware of and cognizant of uh the roles that we each have under state law and your charter. As I mentioned before, my job is not policy. My job is
to you and ultimately help you implement that policy once you make those decisions. So that's I think one of the key aspects of whoever sits in that chair is being aware of what the limitations are making sure
are maintained. at the same time making sure that what you are doing is legal and appropriate. On very rare occasions, but it has happened, you know, being up there, not necessarily with this village, but other
municipalities to tell the the elected officials in that community, look, what you're about to do is illegal. Okay, that is my advice. Don't do it. And you know, uh, except for that very rare occasion,
they heed the advice and and they they they move on in what I believe to be the best manner possible. And then if the decision is to take a uh the less traveled or recommended path is to
defend that uh to to the utmost of my abilities u to make sure that if there is some kind of challenge or question uh it is defensive. >> If you worked with other small communities, what do you find unique about working with this commission and
the city? um the community uh that collegiality uh and you know sometimes that collegiality and that smallness does breed uh um discontent uh can be uh a flash point
and that really is the challenge is to make sure that those types of situations and when they do present themselves to make sure that everyone who has a stake in the process feels included. So, you know, they're and and that they are part
of the solution uh as opposed to problem. >> How do you stay current with the developments in local government law? Would you be keeping the village updated? >> Well, uh one of the things that you do and and uh still receive them even
though I'm not actively representing any uh cities as or municipalities as as a city attorney. I get the daily updates from the Florida League of Cities on their mailing list. That is ways that we keep up to date. We attend seminars. Uh
you know, um again, um not to put him on the spot, Miss Dunciel. Uh that's probably, you know, the Florida Municipal Attorneys Association, Attorneys Association annual seminar, which uh takes place every summer where we definitely run into each other. It's
one of the best places to find out what's going on um and the you know hear what other municipalities are and being part of that process because part of it is what other municipalities are already doing uh when the issues present
themselves and uh it's a great way to interact and stay and to those types of issues and certainly interact and and make sure uh I'm communicating with not only the village manager uh issues but also your
lobbyist uh as themselves and you make sure that you're on top of all of these different issues. >> If any commissioner approaches you for advice, how do and and do you feel that you need to have a third party when you're meeting with that commissioner?
Okay, just look, we'll skip that question. You know, I think it's very important that there be trust in the relationship between a village attorney or city attorney and the elected officials. And certainly that is my commitment to each
one of you is to make myself available on an as needed basis. Different attorney different elected officials have different wants and needs and interactions with their staff. Whatever it is the level that you want from me, I'm here to provide it. And that is on a
onetoone face-toface on the phone zoom whatever it is your preferred method that's again what I will do because that's what you are asking me to do and it's part of my job uh I really don't see the need for third parties unless
it's a policy issue that let's say might involve the the the U village manager or another department head. Uh but one-on- ons they're they're called that for a reason. Thank you.
>> You're up. >> Hi, John. So, John, listen. Um, I don't know about a lot about uh legal jumbo mumbo and uh so I'm going to talk pretty plain. Um, you know, I know a lot of times you guys
go to get get into these long diet tribes and and a lot and a lot of times I have find I have find myself trying to figure out half the words that you guys mentioned. So I'm going to try to keep this simple. Um, so just a couple of quick questions, John. Um
the first question is if you were advising this committee and uh in a professional uh lawyer fashion and we found ourselves in the situation that we're finding ourselves today,
which was an attorney that we had that asked for an increase from $125,000 to $175,000 without no prior warning. What would you what would what would you have suggested uh what would you have suggested be to
to the rest of the board? >> I believe that the place for that conversation is during the budget process. Uh and if there was a circumstance that um came about uh that I really don't see where that issue
would come out come about my perspective outside of the budget cycle. uh that's where it's established. Uh once it's approved, uh you know, I'm committed. If if I feel that a raise or some other type of of accommodation is warranted,
then I bring that up during the budget cycle. And at the end of the day, if we can't come to an agreement, frankly, under my resignation, simple. I'd hate to uh put you in a in a
position uh to admit to hearsay, but uh what would you assume was the rationale behind this if you have an an assumption? >> Well, not necessarily here, but let me give
you another I know u a situation that I was confronted with in another municipality where um someone came in was selected as the new attorney. They
said we can do the work for X dollars a month period. And they messed it up. they messed up the calculations and they found themselves um within a very short period of time of
being you know in over their heads and I think that that function and how to deal with is a matter of of staffing and the right people um maintaining the right work level um how what happened here um
I I don't know the specifics so uh it you know it I do think that It may have um been about the time that you brought on you went through this the process of of hiring a new manager >> and that may have been part of the
impetus, but I can't speak to anything more. >> All right. Thank you. Uh three quick questions before my time's up. Quickly, uh how many locations have you worked at uh since uh coming out of uh law school?
I know it's probably quite a few >> as a mun as city attorney >> over a dozen >> over a dozen >> and as an assistant or special counsel >> double or triple that number. >> Okay. >> I I've I've
sometimes as a result of who I've where I was at as a law member of a law firm most of the municipalities here in in South Florida at one point or another. >> Okay. Um, of of those firms, uh, how many of those firms have you been let go
from? >> None. >> None. >> I've always moved on, >> uh, for my professional and personal betterment from firm to firm. >> Okay. Um, and the last question I has is, do you know Al personally?
>> Uh, well, let me put it to you. Best way for me to answer this is that uh during the holiday season uh All and I always uh exchanged and have exchanged u hey happy Thanksgiving, happy holidays that and
and if if that means I consider him my friend, then the answer to that is I consider him my friend. >> But you don't spend a lot of time with Al. >> No, I would say that the last time I saw Mr. Childress prior to last um
meeting uh well over uh two years. >> And so the last question, do you feel comfortable that you could work with Al? >> Yes. Yes. I mean from a professional standpoint um my relationship with uh Mr. Childris has always been top-notch
and I have no doubt that we would be able to work effectively and well for this community. >> Thank you. First off, thank you, John, for being here and uh the benefit of going last, a lot of my questions already got answered. So, Art stole my experience question, so we check that one off the
list. Uh, one of my concerns has to do with legislation changes in Tallahassee. Uh, specifically, uh, issue that happened when I was very new on the commission. I discovered a law that was slipped through by a prior village or a current village manager, and it was a law that I brought to his attention that he had no idea had changed, and it was something that we weren't in compliance
with. explain to me how you would keep up with Tallahassee law changes and bring that to the commission so that way we don't find ourselves behind the A-fall. >> Uh and in fact you part of the discussion that we were having for during my my uh uh presentation was the
discussion about a transition plan. Part of that transition plan is going through all the recent legislation and making sure that to the extent that some of that legislation has benchmarks that you're required to meet and you're not is to change the code as quickly as
possible and once that is done to stay on top of that uh to be aware of and um reviewing uh at the end of every legislative session uh every source and there's multiple sources the Florida uh municipal attorneys association puts out
um um a position paper at the end of the legislative session. The Florida League of Cities does. The Florida The Florida Association commission. Uh, also, Mr. Attorney, Mr. Manager, Madame Clerk, thank you very much for the opportunity. Um,
I think and I hope that the one thing that you'll know is that we are all in. We work hard. Uh, we are dedicated. every city that we've we've been employed at, uh, we've gone above and
beyond and they have recip reciprocated. In Miami Lakes, we were, uh, we were on a 30-day contract, on a month-to-month contract for about 10 years. Uh, and it got to the point where they wanted more of a presence from our firm in town hall
to they were giving us an office. And I said, "Look, that's all well and good, but I need a reciprocal commitment." And I had approached a lot of the council members and basically let them know that I wanted a three-year contract and uh I got some positive feedback. So I had it
put on the agenda. Uh they gave us five. They on their own gave us a five-year commitment in Dural. Uh we had a uh we initially signed a a 4-year contract,
but after the first year, the contract uh called for a vote of confidence from the council, and if we got the vote of confidence, they actually gave us a $5,000 a month raise. It was five to nothing to give us the raise.
We're all in. We have six lawyers here today. My firm has 10. I started out my law, I call it my law firm, our law firm, me and a secretary and a part-time associate. We're 10 lawyers and we're growing. I
think we're at a perfect size for the town. Uh we uh we are big enough to handle almost any problem, but yet we're small enough where we don't have that billing issue, the overhead.
I own the office building where we're at. Uh we have very minimal over overhead in that sense. Uh we've never had an issue with billing with a with a client or anything like that. Uh we keep the bills low. You're a small town.
Frankly, I represent some some large cities. It's not just Dorado. I'll be honest with you. I prefer the smaller city. And I'll tell you why. I was involved in Miami Lakes in their incorporation. Miami Lakes got incorporated in 2000. Actually, this
Saturday was the 25th anniversary party. I was on the ground floor. Miami Lakes sprung up from the Miami Lakes Civic Association. Wayne Sllayton was the president for years. Uh he approached me as a very young lawyer coming out of law
school. Uh literally a young lawyer in 1990. I graduated in ' 89. Hey, can you help me out? I helped him out the best I could. We navigated the t the code and uh the Miami Lakes chart, I'm sorry, the Miami date charter, etc. After 10 years,
we finally got it done. I can appreciate uh the problems in this town are personal. This isn't lobbyists, special interests, and things like that. When the residents are up here talking, it's personal to
them. They're talking about their street. They're talking about their trees. They're talking about their neighbors doing this issue, not following up. It's exactly what we face in Miami Lakes. I'm the one on the deis up there. I'll be the one on the deis here. You'll have a lot of interaction
with Melissa Armenos who's here, who's been to every meeting. I can tell you we're dedicated. We don't lose clients in my law firm. We do what it takes. Now, there has never been a motion tendered by a single commissioner to
terminate our services. Forget about being seconded. Forget about being voted on. That is a fact. It's never happened. Uh and I hope it never happens. We are all in as far as dedication and service. Uh whatever you need, we will
be here. Our phones are on 247, 365. I was just in uh in Seattle with for the birth of my little granddaughter. She's gorgeous, by the way. Uh taking calls and I don't mind, by the way. It's not a complaint. It's part of the job. I'm interested. I
I I you know, I like doing it. And frankly, sometimes I'll pick up a phone and say, "Hey, can I call you back?" Certainly. Or if they call me, they get a text back. Hey, sorry, I can't take the call right now. I promise I'll call you back in 30 minutes, 40 minutes. What's up? So there's never an issue
with level of service. There's never never an issue with our fees. You know what they are and they're going to stay that way. I'm not, you know, by the way, I'm not casting any espersion. Uh I I I'm really not. If I wanted an increase,
I would come to each of you ahead of time at some point. I am willing to commit to a three-year contract on the 125. I'd like a little bit longer if possible with a COLA adjustment at the end. I'm being total at the end of the contract, but that's it. I'm being very
frank, very honest, very forthright. There's nothing more important uh than you watching the citizens tax dollars. You are entrusted. You are fiduciaries. You are uh it's not your it's not your money. I know that. You know, you have
to really watch every dollar, especially in the smaller cities, including watching what you pay us. That's very important. There's nothing more important in a in a small town like this than transparency and knowing what the what the residents
want. In Miami Lakes, the the town's check register is online. You can see every check written and what it was for and what the balances in the account and everything else. Our firm culture, my partners and I are all friends. Caesar Method, who's here,
uh, was a vice mayor, police officer, uh, very qualified. We've known each other since we were 17 years old, before we even considered being lawyers. My partner, Raul Lopez, we met because we were softball players on the same softball team in law school. Uh, he's
got really weak arm, but that's a whole another issue. Uh, we his his daughter when we were partners at another law firm, she was born. She's a she's she's a senior attorney in our firm. That's how long we've known each other. It's important. We've got each other's back.
You can always count on that. If you ever need anything, we will we will be there. That that is hugely important for me for you to know. I'm just looking through my notes here to I can assure you that between now and
every meeting that we have you will talk to us if you want to obviously but uh there usually are no surprises on the day as either as how you feel or how I feel to me it's the job of the lawyer
not to be involved in policy the lawyers have to stay in their lane I have an opinion on policy especially in my own hometown, but you will never hear me uh presenting or discussing policy.
Sometimes I'm asked behind the scenes, hey, what do you think? And I'll give my opinion as a as a citizen and as a taxpayer. But on the day and when I'm writing an ordinance, that will not happen. If you want an ordinance written and I think you can't do that, I will
tell you. But I I if I if I don't think it's proper, I will tell you, look, I don't think it's proper. But if you tailor it back like this or you do it like this, I think that's co that you know, I was going to say kosher. I think that's something that you can that you can pass. Now, whether your colleagues
will vote on it or not, that's a whole another issue. That's between you and them. I don't get involved in that part of it. That I have to stay in my lane. That's huge to me. All right. Um, you know, I I saw some of the issues
that you have. I've gone through your charter and code of ordinances, uh, through your citizens bill of rights. I'm not going to say I know them like the back of my hand, but I can tell you I've gone through them all. Um, I don't know if you want to ask me questions about it. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I know them
inside out or like the back of my hand that I don't. I can tell you there's a lot a lot a lot of similarities between your charters and Miami Lakes uh and Dural. There are some differences especially how you elect the mayor and and things like that and and the vice
mayor and Dorado just like here the positions rotated in Miami Lakes they vote on it every year in November. Uh sometimes it's the same vice mayor and I think this year they did the same thing. I I lost my game clock, so I have no idea where I am in terms of time.
>> About five and a half minutes. >> Um, all right. So, our brochure. Um, I do mostly commercial litigation and municipal law. If you look at the first page, that's that's my picture. Um, I do
mostly uh commercial litigation and municipal law. Uh, I enjoy what I do. I like it. uh I get up very early uh to work out and do some exercise because if not I won't do it. Uh and you can
I think I have the knowledge and know knowhow. R Lopez is a senior partner at the firm and he's my friend. Uh Caesar Pester is here once again. We're friends. We happen to be uh partners. Uh but you know Caesar's daughters Caesar has a daughter that's a lawyer. R has a
daughter that's a lawyer. Uh my daughter's a doctor, can I tell you? Um our then we've got our our team of associates. Most of them are here. Uh Matt's not here today. Local government services. You I've gone
through the scope of service. It's essentially pretty much the same uh what a typical city at municipal attorney does. uh and we're ready, willing, and able uh to engage uh in that. Uh we take
a proactive approach. We try and monitor state law uh not only as to what's been enacted, but a lot of times what's coming down the pipeline. Uh that's that's important to us. Um we like I told you before, we meet uh with with
staff members that the manager tells us to meet with. um we have to respect that line uh in Miami Lakes and in Dural uh where the manager it's a manager managed type of city so we we try and respect that um but we meet with department
heads we meet with the manager there's like I told you to me the key is there not being any surprises you got to be prepared and and you as the attorney you have to know and have a have a pulse as to what's going on uh in the in in in the village
We meet with zoning board. Um the next the next slide is the tree ordinance and bird sanctuary and swell protection. This is exactly what we've been doing in Miami lakes. It's huge in Miami. We want to treat that. I am the president of my homeowners association
unfortunately because I we we actually rotate that. We're 72 homes in a gated community and we're always fighting with each other over who has to be the president this year and I haven't been able to unload it yet, but I have hope. Uh but one of the things we do there is
and we really crack down on people. We don't even wait for the city to do it is the hat racket. I can't stand it. Uh you know, we've got we had one neighbor who was basically turned his oak tree into a topiary. you know, we we went ballistic
and it's not okay. Um, we we've just enacted burn san bird sanctuary ordinances and things like that. Uh, code compliance. U, we've drafted and reddrafted the code. Uh, we try and use a a shield. In other
words, be a shield for for the city or for the village. And then uh also when we need to we we use a sword. Um we had some things get out of hand as far as code violations. So everyone that
didn't have every violation that had turned into a lean that was not homestead property, there was 160. We sent notices to and we were about to foreclose. I think 50%
50% have fixed it or whatever. We've mitigated their fines. They've had to pay fines. They've mitigated, but they've come into compliance. The other 50% we're working on them. I I don't want to file a foreclosure lawsuit uh based on the lean, but uh if we have to, we will. They have to come into
compliance. It's it's a small town. You need to be in compliance. Uh so when we have to, we will. I don't look forward to it. I don't like litigating uh on behalf of the city when I don't have in Dural. Another example is when we
defended home rule um we had a shooting at the martini bar in downtown Dural uh where a security guard got killed. He was I think 22 with a child. Others got injured in the shooting. We
enacted the city immediately enacted and pailed back paired back its alcohol restriction. Problem was the martini bar is a great place to go but it was open so late that everything else in town was closing up and then it became get to the martini bar and it was becoming mayhem.
>> You got about 45 seconds. Just giving you a warning. >> Uh you can see the rest of it in our presentation is shield and sword. Uh we uh different proactive approaches that we've taken. We've got our list of accomplishments. Um, you know, and
there's more. There's a reason why we are where we are. I can't tell you. Listen, we're here. We're ready to go. Uh, and we're whatever you need. We'll put in the effort. I can assure you nobody will
work as hard as we will on behalf of your on behalf of your village. >> Open it up to questions. >> Ro, thanks very much. very much appreciation. There's the um so just going to keep the the process uniform. We start on one side with vice
mayor and move straight down. Um so we'll do five minutes for questions for each individual. Uh and go ahead and vice mayor get us started. >> All right. Thank you so much for your presentation. >> Sure. >> Um so uh you're one of the firms that were handpicked by the manager to come
and present today. Um, can you explain your relationship please with the manager and how do you know him? If you do, I know we spoke about it but I just would like you to frame that. >> The manager in person for the first time. >> Mhm.
>> All the gentlemen. Um, I had never had a telephone conversation with him before this process started. >> I received an email which I I sent to you. >> Yep. >> Uh, and that was the first time I had ever spoken to him. >> That's good. Thank you. great things
about him, but today was the first day I've met him. >> Love that. Thank you for the context. >> Sure. >> First question. What protections do you put in place to keep your legal advice consistent when different village actors disagree? >> Well,
it's between them. I think it goes back to before when I said I I stay in my lane. If last year in 24, one of the councilmen resigned. So, we needed there's different ways in
our charter to figure out how you replace him. One way to do it, you either have to set a special election or the mayor has to nominate someone and get three more votes. There's seven on our council in in Miami Leagues. So the mayor would nominate someone and he
needs three more votes. He couldn't get the three more votes. So then we had to put it to an election. The problem is that cost money. The town didn't want to incur it. So they were all trying to find a different way to do it. So there's six of them. And it was basically threeon three as to what they
wanted to do. And three of them proposed something and I said can't do that under our charter. The other three proposed something else. You can't do that under our charter. You have to do this. It got to the point where all six of them were upset with me and I said, 'Guys, I'm
obviously calling the balls and strikes here because all six of you are upset. They all started cracking up and I said, "You got to go to the election no matter what. Either either you approve the manager or the mayor's selection or you go to the election. There's no in
between." And you know, that's where we are. I call the balls and strikes. I tell you what it is and it's up to you to uh to decide and convince your colleagues. >> Um how do you interpret the village attorney's duty to protect the corporate
entity of the village rather than the individual um officer? >> My my job is is an in is to protect the corporate entity. Uh, and I think I told you, I'm not sure if I told you, but I I think that the village should have a
legal representation policy. I think you should have a policy, but uh under Florida law, you have to be careful because if a and I know this far too well, if if you're acting for a public purpose and something happens against you and you're successful in your
defense, the city or the village has to reimburse you for your attorney's fees and costs. Unless there's a village rep legal representation policy, then you invoke that policy depending on what it is. But yes, my client is the village. >> Yeah. If an individual officer is sued
and it's not a conflict of interest for our our law firm to represent the council approves it, I would prefer to represent the officer myself rather than have them go out and get representation at a much higher rate. But I understand when there's no legal representation policy in place, it leaves room to to
discuss various issues and for it to come back up. >> Thank you. And then the last one is if you can explain within your team what percentage do we get from you and comparison with your associates. >> Well um it'll be on a case-byase basis.
I will be sitting on the deis every time >> for >> me to sit on the deis. I have to know what's going on. So I'm I'm the face. But I'm not going to sit here and tell you I'm going to write up every ordinance and I'm going to be doing all of the behindthe-scenes work.
I am going to have help. I I am. And and that's Melissa Armentos who's going to be helping me out. But if you need something, you have a question, you can call me. If I don't know the answer in the moment, which I won't I won't always know the answer. I promise you I will call you and I will get back to you and
I will tell you uh immediately whatever it is, but I I'm candid. I'm straightforward and I'm transparent. Yes, I will have help. Every law firm does. Every law firm does. >> Got it. Thank you so much, sir. Uh, excuse me. So, Raul, thanks for
being here. Thanks for the presentation. Um, you know, we talked a little bit about this when we discussed it. Um, and you touched upon it in your presentation about how you see issues here uh in in a village like Biscane Park. You know, not having experience. you you've seen our
meetings, you've been here, so you've seen, you know, the issues that we face, how we interact with each other, how the the the public interacts with us. Can you explain from your perspective how you see the level of service or the service for cities like Dural and Miami
Lakes um in comparison to how you how you view the level of service here in Biscane Park, how those things compare and contrast to you and also uh whether the role changes. Um, like I said before, I I prefer the smaller town. I
prefer this town. I'm on tape. I know it. Someone's going to send this to Dural or the other cities that we represent, but it's a fact. You We don't You don't have lobbyists. You don't have those major, you know, live local issues where, you know, we're talking about the
president of the United States, you know, putting in 1350 units in the Dorado Blue parking lot. Uh in July I met uh we started in June. In July I met with four developers, one hour each just to get up to speed on their projects and everything else. Between the four of
them and they were building 3,000 units where they're going to, you know, how they're going to handle and everything else. They're knocking down parking garages. They're knocking down buildings just to build much taller buildings pursuant to the Live Local Act. Uh it's it's a different world there. I'm not
complaining about it. I love doing it. But then that we come here. Here we're talking about trees. We're talking about neighbors. We're talking about, you know, things that are very very personal. Uh and when you're dealing with that, when the neighbors are here,
you know, you have to take that into account as to why uh someone's so passionate about what's going on because it's personal to them. And these are neighbors that like I see in Miami Lakes. We go, you know, Our Lady of the Lakes Catholic Church. I see half the
council there and a bunch of other neighbors there. I go to I go to Publix. I go to uh Latin American Grill. I go to Einstein Bagel. We see each other. These are small communities. You have the same issues. Your kids are playing on soccer teams with with with other people's kids. You're here. And in the bigger
cities, that doesn't happen. You have to take into account and you have to be understanding of what the uh what of the dynamic that's going on between the people standing here in at public
comments and you you know it's it's much more personal much much more local here. >> So let me ask you uh I I appreciate that. Thank you. Uh, let me ask you, we often find ourselves or at least I've kind of noticed our our the commission
often asking the attorney and the manager too. Well, we've never done it this way or we don't really have a policy on this or how do other municipalities do it? That happens a lot and we have to get some, you know, like you said, you're not always going to know the answer. You're going to have to figure it out and come back and that's
what happens often. Um, can you talk a little bit about your experience with these other municipalities and how you can how you can bring that here to the commission when we're asking questions about how does everyone else do it? You know, how can we best implement something to do be successful in the ways other municipalities are
successful? >> The problems that you will have here um are more local uh and we bring that breath of experience. I mean, you know, we're intimately involved in Sweetwater, that's a large city. were intimately involved obviously in Dural uh in
Hyalia. Uh Caesar's has represented Hyalia before. Uh he he now we don't represent Hyia because he's in front of them a lot. So we don't want to have an issue with that. Um but you know we have exposure to how Halia does things. We
have exposure to how Miami Lakes does things. Uh unfortunately we've had to litigate against some municipalities. We're trying to stay away from that, but every once in a while it it becomes a problem. Uh and you know, the two cases that I'm handling right now, uh it's
egregious what was done. Um and you know, there there's no excuse and I the cases will be resolved. But yeah, we bring that to the table and you know, it's a fine line. If you ask me, I'll tell you sometimes, you know, you have
your opinions. uh behind the scenes. I may walk up to you and says, "Hey, have you thought about this or thought about that, but I definitely won't do that up here. I won't embarrass any anyone. That will not happen. If I'm asked for an opinion, I'll give it and I'll give it honestly and transparently. But I have a
lane to stay in and I have to respect that. U you know that that's that's important to me. But sometimes, hey, have you thought about this?" but subtly behind the scenes, not embarrass anybody who I've never come.
>> Great. Thanks, Rob. >> First off, I'd like to thank you for coming and thank you for meeting with me and thank you for paying for dinner because I was really worried about that. It was a high expensive restaurant. >> Uh so, >> I even asked our city manager if I was in violation of any uh laws. Um okay,
I'm going to I have a questions that I asked, but I'm going to since you answered part of it. If a commissioner approaches you for advice, do you feel that you need to have a third party when meeting with that commissioner? >> I' I've never had You're asking me if
I've said, "Hey, I want sitting on this meeting with us." >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Have we had meetings with more than one people? Absolutely. Uh but not because I've said I want someone here to witness
it. >> Okay. Really small community. Our commissioners are really residents who have volunteered to help guide the village for a small amount of money. Our commissioners are not clear politicians. How do you support a commission that may need a lot of support without
overstepping your boundaries? >> It's pretty clear. you know, hey, you have a policy decision to make. If you ask me for my input on what I think on policy in Miami Lakes, sometimes I'm really biting my tongue because I have real opinions. But I it's my lane. My
lane is advise you as to the propriety as to the legal propriety of what you're doing. I do get asked and believe me, I'll give you my opinion if it's policy, but
that's not my primary pop purpose here. Um, you know, if you ask me, hey, what do you think a good solution to this problem is? Oh, I'll give it to you. But if if you say, look, I want to do this to the tree canopy ordinance, and it's legal what you're doing. I'll write up
an ordinance for you uh to do it. Now, you got to convince your colleagues to get it passed, but that's fine. If you worked with other small communities, what do you find unique about working with this community and this commission?
>> You and I took some notes on this. Um, you you you don't have a big industrial. It's mostly homeowners. Um you
you know for example at the last meeting you had some traffic engineering issues with speed bumps and everything else. I have a lot of experience with that. I litigated with the county over bridges and everything else and litigated over the over the county charter and what you're allowed to do not allowed to do.
Um frustrating when you have speeders and everything else. It took us I think the better part of years to get a crosswalk installed where someone who was a member of the same athletic club older lady got hit by a car on a Saturday afternoon at 1:00 and hit and
run. It took us o I think over two years get the the crosswalk installed and get the county to to to approve it. It's frustrating as all heck to the point where we basically started doing it uh and then said you guys, you know, do something about this because it's it's a
road that needed it. Um you you are a a unique community because of your size. uh you're definitely one of the smallest cities, if not the smallest city in the county. Uh your industrial base is is is not that much. So, you have to focus on
homeowners and their dynamic with you and the trees and the and the swelles and the code enforcement and everything else. That's that's where the focus seems to be in this in this town. But I've only been to two meetings. How do you stay current with
developments in local government law? Would you be keeping the village updated? >> Absolutely. That's part of what we do. That is part of what we do. It's part of the service that we provide and they do get the updates and sometimes I get, "You're kidding me. The state
legislators going to do what?" I said, "Yeah, they are. This is what's coming down the pipe." Uh sometimes we do it early enough so that they can call the representatives and things like that hoping that they can sway them, but far too often you can't.
>> What are what of what are the duties of the village attorney and how does it work for you? >> You guys uh well, you have it in your scope of work, you have it in your citizens bill of rights and in your charter uh exactly uh what it is we do. I don't know it off the top of my head, but I've read it and we're perfectly
fine uh doing that. Frankly, it's what we do uh in in the other cities as well. It's it's not this world where I'm like, "Oh my god, you that you're not." >> Okay, I have more questions, but I got my time. So, uh go ahead, Mr. No, no,
no. Go. So, Ro, um you and I had uh nice long conversation over the phone and I think that uh based on all the information that you provided me um I
felt very comfortable and confident in uh in the in the person that you are and the firm that you represent and the clients that you represent. Thank you. But having come here and listening to you today,
uh I have one serious concern. And I'd like to ask you and and for you to be as factual as possible. Um, what high school did you attend? And do you have a large uh scab in the
back of your right arm? God. I attended American High. I played quarterback for the football team. Uh, the last I broke my leg my senior year. I actually wanted to go to the United States Military Academy. >> What years What years were these?
>> This was uh I graduated in 1981. So I broke my leg in October of 1980. That's when the football season was. And uh I wanted to go to the United States Military Academy. Unfortunately, when you break a leg and the way I broke it, I dislocated my ankle and everything
else. But a meeting before that, my coach walks in, "Hey, Ralph," front of the whole team, 80 guys. Guess what? I'm like, "Oh, no." My coach was uh he he he enjoyed, let's just say, doing
something. You're leading the county, Ralph. What are you talking about? What am I leading the county? Ral, you're leading the county in interceptions. Damn it. So, uh, another time he would do the senior announce the the
announcements in the morning. My sister went to school with me. My sister's 14 months younger than I am. And Al, uh, I want to make an announcement. This is right after our homecoming game. I threw
four picks. Only three were my fault. One was not my fault. For the record, we're selling the Gastessi. This is the morning announcements in front of 3,000 students. We're selling uh besides the donuts and the and the cupcakes and
everything else, we're going to sell something called the Gustessie doll. You wind it up and it throws an interception. My sister was livid, but that's my football career. I did I did the best I could under the circumstances.
>> May or may have not uh smashed into each other. Yeah, >> I was class of 82. >> Where'd you go to school? >> Beach High. >> Yes, we did. I threw four picks against Beach High that year. That was a school I threw the four picks against. Was uh it was our homecoming. >> Looked a little familiar. You looked
like somebody had hit. >> That's Yeah, exactly. Anyway. All right, guys. Uh I don't have any further questions. Anybody else has any further questions? Four, four picks. >> Four picks. >> Yes.
>> By the way, I threw the most of any quarterback because we were always behind because we had no defense. >> Uh, we're running a bit late, so I'll try to keep my questions kind of brief. Uh, you mentioned that sit up the DAS, but we'd have a healthy interaction with your staff. >> Yes. >> Can you outline what that would be on a
day-to-day b basis for the electeds as well as would that relationship transfer to our appointed officials in in the village? And how would that relationship? >> You will have both of our cell phones. You will have obviously both of our emails. You have both of our cell phones. You can pick up the phone anytime you want. Um,
look, I'm just telling you who I'm going to have support from. You make the choices to who you want to talk to. Uh, you know, you want to It's not going to cost you any more, any less. We're on a flat fee basis. Um, there may come a time when you call me up and says, "Let me get right back to you. Let me see where we are with that. Melissa, that
ordinance you told me to draw up, Melissa's drawing it up. Give me a few minutes. I'll call you back. I'll I I'll let you know where she is with it. You may get something. I'm being as transparent and as honest as I can be with you. Um I can be your point man. If that's what an individual commissioner wants, call me. You'll know. If you tell
me, "Hey, Ro, I want, you know, I'll call you tomorrow on this ordinance uh that I'm going to want you to draw up. Can we meet? Can can we do a teleconference tomorrow at 2 o'clock?" Uh 2 o'clock doesn't work. How about 2:30? That's what you're going to get from me. I'm not going to sit here and tell you I'm gonna anything you want to hear. I'm going to
give it to you as as transparent as as as I can. That that's how we work. I think that every law firm works that way. Uh whether they tell you that or not is a different story, but that's how we work and that's what you're going to get. Uh and you obviously have I
obviously have all the support I need uh going forward. >> Thank you. My second question is uh I know you mentioned you reviewed our code, you reviewed our citizens bill of rights. I don't want to put you on the spot here, but you did open the door. >> Okay. >> Uh so, could you name one uh issue you
see with our code and what you would do to change it? >> I can't say that I anything jumped out at me other than the legal representation policy. Um I'm just thinking off the top of my head. I'm looking at some notes here. Um,
as I took notes, I I'll be honest with you, I I prefer your land development code and how strict your policies are and how detailed they are to what we have in Miami Lakes. Um, so that's that's different. Uh you're the same on, you
know, how the manager selected, how the attorneys selected. Um the interesting thing that I saw was the fact that on your committees, you have to have a home ownership. That's not something that I'm used to seeing in Miami Leagues. We even have a few
committees where you don't have to live in the town. Um, but you know, I I saw that, but off the top of my heads that something jumped out that I'm going to sit here and tell you I saw that and I can't believe you guys are doing that. There's not something that's not something that I
can come to mind. Hold on because I had others help me out with that, too. >> That's fine. Thank you. Thank Thank you for the presentation. Sure. >> Well, I think that's time for everybody. Um, thanks very much to you. Thanks very much all your your firm and your
attorneys that have been here with us for the presentation and for spending some time with us this evening. >> I'm going to go back to what's that place called? >> The village hall. >> Thank you. I'll get you started. Thanks.
All day long. All day. Guys, I'm all for it and I'm doing it here with you. But all day long it was. You're right. I didn't see it coming. Oh, I absolutely will. They'll be
ecstatic. >> Oh, I love it. Stop. Like, don't. >> I have no idea where any of this was going. >> That's what I thought, but then he didn't actually say it. So, I'm like, well, where are we going with this? We're going to do it.
Great answer. Yeah, of course. Thank you. >> Hey, we're queued up with this one and ready. All right. Um, before I begin, let me just ask, I brought extra copies of our written presentation. Is there
anybody who'd like one? We haven't We got extras. >> We got extras. >> Thank you. >> More here if you need. >> All right, Mr. Geller. So, just a reminder, what we've been doing is 15 minutes for the presentation. We're
doing five minutes for questions for each commissioner. Um, we're just kind of trying to keep it consistent. Um, >> 15 minutes per presentation. And what' you say after that, Mayor? >> Five minutes for each commissioner to ask questions. Um, so as soon as we get the timer, do we have the timer uh queued up? Oh, we have All right. So, we
have a timer just to make sure we keep everybody honest. So, whenever you're ready. >> Is that visible somewhere? >> Uh, I It's not while this is up, so I'll just I can remind you. >> He's giving you like a two-minute warning or something. >> Madam Clerk, you know what? I don't I don't see it. Can you Okay, we got it.
>> Perfect. >> Appreciate that. And that way I can go into the two-minute drill if we need to. >> Perfect. The floor is yours, Mr. Geller. >> Thank you, Mayor. Um well, mayor and commission, I think I've had a chance to chat with uh with you with uh the manager and know the clerk. Um I'm
Joseph Geller. My firm is Greenspoon Martyr. Uh we've given you a written document, but let me take a minute. We have I'll call it a PowerPoint. It's pretty short presentation. You go to the first slide. There's just a handful of them. This is just a little bit about
our firm. Um we're a full-ervice law firm. We're national. We're in like, I don't know, 12, 14 states. We have 225 attorneys nationwide. We have 20 locations including um downtown Miami,
uh Fort Lauderdale, Bokeh, West Palm Beach. We're in originally a South Florida law firm. This firm began in in Miami Dade County. Uh core practice areas. I mean a lot of things from real estate litigation uh municipal and
government law and just you know we're we don't do every single thing but pretty close. I mean we don't do Orisa complicated uh pension planning uh but most other kinds of things as a business law firm we do and we have a very good
reputation. We're l ranked among what's called the AmLaw 200 top 200 firms in the country. Uh next slide please. This shows the team that would be working to meet the needs of this
village. Now, I anticipate being the person if you are of a mood to select us to be your next attorneys. I anticipate being the person who would be sitting up on the deis for basically every meeting. I mean, stuff comes up, people are
traveling or get ill. um we're amply covered should that be the case but by and large you know meeting in and meeting out for the this meetings of this village commission I anticipate being the person among the people that would assist my partner Mark Lynn who's
real estate professional my partner Morris Skip Miller Skip is a government finance expert but what he has broad municipal experience for instance he's a general counsel for Palm Beach County Housing Authority Um, James Ralph, former Marine major. I
guess they say you're never a former Marine. Um, and he is in our downtown Miami office. He specializes in things like um uh land use and zoning and other kinds of of government law. And Aman
Johnson next to him is uh my partner. He's a litigator, but he also has been doing a lot of work in municipal government. Uh on the next page, uh the next line, my partner Glenn Smith, a veteran, a tremendous litigator, uh also
with a lot of experience in land use. Uh next to him is Elizabeth Summerstein, who's in our land section, but also has a litigation background. And finally, we have Bradley Burkeman. Uh and he's also in our downtown Miami office. So, uh,
mostly you'll be seeing me, but if there's stuff that needs to get done, if we need to do something in a hurry, we've got the horses to get that done. Uh, there's a little bit about me. I've been principal attorney for eight cities. Um, one of those, uh, first one
of them started just about 30 years ago in El Pau, just next door. And uh I don't know that there's another municipality in Miami Dade County that's more like Biscane Park than Elpert. I've been their attorney. I mean, they uh
sought fit to uh seek other counsel twice and they brought me back twice. I'm more proud of the places I've been brought back than anything else. Sometimes they miss you once you're gone. I've been there 25 out of the last 30 years as their attorney. Um, in
addition, um, as it mentions, just some personal stuff. Currently, I sit on the Miami Dade County School Board representing District 3. Uh, was elected last November, just about a year ago. I spent eight years serving in the Florida House of Representatives, elected in
2014, and reelected without any opposition from either party or anybody in 16, 18, and 20, and termed out in 2022. hadn't really planned on running for the school board, but uh my member decided
to run for higher office, and I'm very concerned with that as my child uh was still in in high school. She just graduated in June, college freshman. Um the most important thing about former experience to me is I also served on a
government just like you. I was the mayor of North Bay Village in the early 2000s, elected in 2004, reelected without opposition in 2006. Reflecting again, when people get to know me, uh,
generally that works out, it seems. And that's a city this much bigger than you, not quite on the par like El Pertal is, but I sat in that chair and I held the gavvel. I'm not interested
in being or fancing myself to be a sixth commissioner. Don't want to do that. If I was interested, I'd be, you know, running in Aventura where I live. I'm not there to tell you what to do. Your neighbors, your friends, the people in your village
whose doors you knocked on and living rooms you sat in, you're there to represent them and you know what they want because you've met with them. I view my job very simply. You tell me what you want to do. My job
is to try and help you find a way how to do it. And I work for you. But I want to emphasize a good municipal attorney is also mostly indivisible from a manager because you
have to work together for the good of the municipality to get anything done. So you guys can keep your obligations that you've taken to your fellow citizens in this community. And I like to say in particular that um
the the village manager is the gas pedal. Can't get anywhere without a manager. The attorney, it's not a very sexy thing, but attorney is the brakes. Frankly, the brakes never got you
anywhere. But if you're coming down the side of the mountain and the brakes fail, you better hope those those bra you're in trouble. You need those brakes to work because otherwise you could fall off. You could end up on the side or in the ditch or something like that. I
don't minimize the importance of the job. I do think it's proactive. The job is to be a problem solver. If I come to you and you say, "Can you get me from we're at point A. Can you get me to point B?" I'll do my best to say yes. If
you say, "Can you get me there on Route One?" I might have to say, "No, they're big potholes on Route One, you don't want to fall into them, but I can get you there on route 1A." It might take a little longer, might have a few more
terms turns in it, but my job is to get you where you want to go. And I hope when I identify a problem that I'm always going to be able to look at you and say, "But there ought to be a solution." Next slide, please. And this summarizes our our approach. Okay? And
I've just talked about some of it. The position of the village attorney. The responsibility is to help guide you and guide the administration, make sure nothing wrong happens, and find ways to get you where you want to go. That's
what we're there to do. You're the ones who know what your constituents want. We will work closely where we can with everything that the administration tries to do. We have a mutual goal. Our goal is to get you where you say this
community needs to go. Um we'll be at all meetings the village council, any others that you request. You know, I say that I'm available 24/7. And and let me just say what I mean by that. I don't really hope that you're
going to call me about something routine at 2:00 in the morning or uh all weekend long. But if there's a police shooting at 3:00 in the morning Saturday and there's any questions that the department has, if they're saying, "Well, what do we do?
How do we handle this?" I want that call. I want that call because I want to be sure that we're taking the steps that we need to take to protect the safety of our officers and to protect the safety of the residents and also to protect the
pocketbook of this community in case there's something we need to do to keep us out of trouble. I want that call. And if there's something that comes up and you need me on a weekend, let me tell you, if you call that cell number or text it and sometimes just goes to
voicemail, mind of its own, um, I don't take that call. If I'm not in court and I'm not in the shower, I look to take that call because I'm there to help you do your job for the citizens here. We're we're a fullervice firm. We do
anticipate doing most of this stuff in-house because we've got people who know most of this. But if there's somebody that you have a prior relationship with, if there's somebody I mean, we do labor, but if you've got somebody handling labor, definitely if there are pension issues, we would defer
to people like that. So, we'll respect the relationships that you have. But having said that, most of it we look to do inhouse because we're able to. And I get a time check. That's the last slide, by the way. You can put up the thank you
if you would. About how long are we in? Five minutes more. Oh, that's 10 minutes. Five minutes either way. Right. Okay. Well, that's great. All right. Let me just say a couple other things then. And I probably won't use that whole 10 minutes. Um I feel like I have a sense of this
community. I've known it for a long time. I've been nearby in uh in El Patel. Um gosh, North Bay Village. which ain't that far. And I I did that and I know that slightly larger community. I
understand this village is fiscally constrained. You're making a little more in taxes as people, you know, redevelop those houses and build them up, make them bigger and all that, but there no commercial property to my understanding. I know you got a couple of like duplexes
and triplexes. That's that's difficult. You know, I've talked to people who used to be here. I mean, I talked to one of your former managers, friend of mine, and you know, I understand there are some novel ideas for how you can get revenue and, you
know, try to find grant money and things like that. And I'd certainly be looking forward to working with the village manager to see what we can do to assist with that. But again, I understand that you can't
just go to the well on commercial property. that results in kind of a difficult financial situation. And I understand one of the things having watched a little bit recently that this commission is concerned with,
you've got to worry about how to stretch your dollar. You have to be smart with what you spend on and careful what you don't spend on. And I I understand that. Now, I'm not the finance guy. I'm not
here to make those decisions, but I am here to help. Everybody's got to, you know, yoke up and help pull the team forward because it takes all of us to do it. So, I get that the solutions are supposed to be affordable, not just for
your sake, for the sake of your residents. You know, at at the end of the day, having been in Alpert all these years, one of the things I've prided myself on is keeping us out of litigation wherever possible. A lot of
this litigation, the only people who win are attorneys. It doesn't help the community in any way. Now, I'm a litigator at heart. When you represent particularly a small town that is a fiscally constrained community,
sometimes you can't let your pride lead you astray. You have to find ways to make things work. You have to work things out. You have to be smart. So, at the end of the day, you know, I'm not
not a braggard. I'm not a guy who breaks his arm trying to pat himself on the back, but what I bring more than anything is experience and integrity. I'm never going to knowingly do the
wrong thing. I don't say any of us are perfect, but I'm going to try and do what's right, what's ethical, what's moral, and at the same time also do what's smart, and what makes sense for you trying to stretch these dollars. With that said, we love this job, and we
hope we have the opportunity, and I'm happy to answer your question. >> Great, Joe. Thank you very much for the presentation. Um, so just to reiterate, what we're doing is we're just going down the line, uh, spending five minutes with each commissioner, um, and just kind of free form questioning. So we'll
keep it the same way we've been doing. We'll start with the vice mayor. So vice mayor, the floor is yours. >> Good evening, Mr. Geller. Thank you very much for the presentation. I appreciate it. Very straight to the point and clear. Um, I'll start. We you have plenty experience as I saw in your resume in your presentation. Um, what
does it mean to you to stay in your lane? What would you say that's that means for you as a challenge as an invitation? How do you define that? >> Staying in your lane is very simple. I'm not a commissioner. What you do is up to you and I'm not the
manager. What you decide to do and not up to me either. Staying in my lane means giving you legal advice and making sure that the law and ethical considerations are not violated. So I may say there's a better way to do this.
You might try something else, but it's not up to me to decide where you're going to go. Now, that's not to say somebody asks me a direct question, preferably in private. If you ask me, I'll do my best to tell
you what I know and what I think, but that's not my lane. My lane is keep you out of trouble and help the administration to get where you and it want to go. >> Great. Thank you. My second question, um, how do you manage contracts to
ensure that the village is not exposed to unnecessary risk? >> Well, we review contracts. I mean, one of my partners typically gets some of the contract reviews. There are ones I look at, too. But frankly, typically there's an awful lot of them. And so, I
have a partner like me. He's practiced law for 45 years. Very smart fell. And most often he gets them. Well, you know, one of my other partners might be the one to to get a look at a particular one. If it's a real estate contract, it'll be one of my real estate partners.
If it involves land use, one of them. But generally, I'll look at it, try to understand what it's about, and then send it to one of the team to do an extensive line by line review. And if they have any questions or concerns, they'll consult with me, and then we'll
give you and the manager our advice. Let me give you I have three minutes left context on the questions. Um so we recently passed a contract for our newly uh chief of police. The contract was brought up by the manager and you know
check for legals deficiency by our attorney. Would you propose a different approach? Is it usually the attorney to initiate the contract and the other way around? I'm trying to assess with your experience. >> Depends. I mean, I I can't give you a
blanket answer. That's on a chief of police contract. Well, you know, it would not be unusual to look at some other uh municipalities and see what they've done and how they've handled it. On the other hand, I've negotiated more of them than I could count off the top
of my head. I do have some strong feelings about things like uh severance and and termination and with cause and without cause because I know some things not everybody is really on top of. And again, you don't want to set something
up that's going to inevitably lead to litigation. You want to try to avoid that because it costs money. >> Yeah. >> So, I'd say it's kind of a case byase approach. >> Great. My last question, I know I'm I'm running off time. Um, how much of your
time do we have if we hire you versus your associates to be and you're a busy person. You already are within um, you know, different roles you explain and you have in your resume. How much do we get of you? >> You know, I don't count to be quite honest. uh when I'm representing a city,
my partners generally keep track of their hours, but I don't because, you know, for me to write down every time a commissioner calls me with a question, you know, what's the point of that? I'm not billing for it. It's a flat fee. Um, I want to say I'm going to give you the
time you need to get the job done because we take great pride in providing good representation. And if you need me for something, if it's something that I'm the best one to do, I'm going to do it. Now, if there's somebody who's, you know, like I said, in review of a
contract, if it's a real estate contract, my real estate partner probably better equipped than me, although I did dirt law for frankly very many years. But, you know, I I'll say that my time will expand
to meet the needs of this community, whatever that takes. >> Wonderful. Thank you. Those are my questions. >> So, um, thanks for being here with us, Joe. Um, dirt law. That's not one. I don't think I've heard that phrase. Dirt law. That's good. >> Real law. The oldest one. Back to King
John and the Magna Carta. >> That's Yes. I I like it. So, um, Joe, I just have a couple of quick questions for you. Um, so you you you serve as the village attorney over in Elportal. You know, obviously size-wise, tax base, there are similarities that we share
with Elportal and there are some very defining characteristics that make Biscane Park different from from Elportal. You know, we we have our differences and, you know, uh, we certainly protect what makes Biscane Park special to to each of us and to our community. Can you talk a little bit on where you see the similarities and where
you would predict the differences in serving in the role there versus serving in the role here? >> The differences are fewer. So, I'm going to start with them. Alpert does have a little bit of commercial base. They have some commercial properties along Northeast Second Avenue that are turning
into uh little offices, accounting offices or doctor something like that. And then on the east side of town in an annexation area, they've got a couple of highrises going up and another property used to be the trailer park. So they have at least the ability
to have some commercial development that's going to help their tax base. I I don't see that here and I I don't think anybody here is looking for that. The similarities are pretty much everything else. It's a small town. It's got a, you know, a police force that's deemed to be
adequate to do the job here, but it's not overly large. The the officers here really, you know, work hard and have to, you know, wear a lot of hats to get things done. The budget is fiscally constrained. This is not a city that,
you know, can throw down and say, well, you know, you can't push us around. We'll sue you. because you don't want to be in a a lawsuit on either side of it. And this is a community like El Pau where the citizenry is very involved.
They come out, they fill up this log house, they tell you how they feel and what they think because it is a small town and it has a small town feel to it. So I think mostly there are similarities, but yeah, there's a couple differences. They have a a few more
arrows in their quiver than y'all have. keeping an eye. Uh I another question. You mentioned a phrase that struck me um wearing a number of hats. You've worn a number of hats and still do. Can you talk a little bit about how your your experiences and your perspectives uh
shape your role as a municipal attorney and how you can kind of benefit from that and how our community can can benefit from from your experience? >> I'm happy to, but let me tell you by starting off I don't have a swell head about it. Okay? I mean, it's a privilege to be elected to serve in public office.
It doesn't entitle you to anything. It's just that you have that privilege of service. So, you know, I don't view it as uh, you know, I keep my activities, whether it was in the House or on the school board,
separate from what I do as a municipal attorney. I keep that. It's off to the side. I'm not here to be that person. I'm here to serve you and these citizens to the best of my ability as a
professional. That said, being on the school board now, I do have my pulse. I talk to parents groups all the time and PTAs. I do hear what people are saying out there. Eight years in the House taught me a lot about how taxation works
in this state. We're about to see maybe some major changes that frankly for this village relying on real estate taxes the way it does. If they cut those too much, where else do you have to look? That's a
huge issue for you because that's what they're looking at. And I know what's going on up there. I keep my finger in and I know how we interpret this legislation and I know how we need I know you have a terrific lobby as a guy I've known for years does a great job in
Tallahassee and I certainly be prepared to help and work with him to the degree that I can to make sure you get a good cut at Tallahassee. But most importantly, I sat where you sat. I understand the dynamics of it and having
been a member of a municipal governing body, you know, you can't go to Publix and not walk down the aisle and have somebody tell you what they think and what you ought to be doing. And that's great. That's democracy in its purest
form. I love it. I understand it. I understand what each of you face in that role. And I'm here to help. Thank you very much, Joe. I appreciate it. Pass it on to the commissioner. >> Thank you. If any a commissioner approaches you for advice, do you feel
that to have a conversation with that p with that commissioner, you need to have a third party present? Both. So, let me say somebody has a question or an issue, I'm there to try and help you. I'm there to try and give you
advice, here to try and give you legal advice. once in a while maybe a little practical advice as well because that matters too. Having said that, as any good municipal lawyer will tell you, turning client privilege exists for
municipal lawyers, but it is not co-extensive with the privilege that exists for private attorneys. So, I'm happy to talk to you. I'm happy to answer your questions. I'm not going to tell you something I shouldn't say, but there's a
point where I need to say, you know, this is a serious issue. You need to get private counsel. I know it's a big issue here. Whether that could be appointed maybe hopefully by your insurance company, and I get that that you know,
you don't have a blank check to pay for that. But there comes a point where it requires private counsel so that a commissioner has the full ability to explain all of their issues and circumstances. Sometimes you need that.
>> Well, I I I I asked this question and I maybe it's the question is not answered. I didn't answer it the right way. What I'm basically saying is if a commissioner comes to you and wants to give advice and you say I'm not going to talk to you unless I have a third person present. That is what the question is.
>> Understand that sir and >> okay >> you did not hear that from me. >> Okay. But that that's what that issue is. >> They are to answer your questions to the best of my ability only where it might become a conflict between my duty to all
of you and my duty to an individual. Well, if there's a conflict, I'm not going to go further and violate my ethics. I'm going to say, "Sir, that that one you need private counsel, but I'll never not talk to you." >> We have a small community and our
commissioners are really residents who have volunteered to have guide the village for a small amount of money. Our commissioners are not career politicians. How do you support the commission that may need a lot of support without overstepping your boundaries?
The overstepping the bounds part is easy. I know where the line is, and I just I'm not willing to cross it. I've been doing this a long time. Uh not everybody loves me, but I I think I've got a pretty good reputation for telling the truth to people and and not crossing
the line. I ain't starting out. Having said that, um I'm there to help, there to assist. And if you've got questions, I'm going to help you to the best of my ability unless and until it comes to a point where that advising you is in
conflict with my duties to the whole deis. >> If you worked with other small communities, what do you find unique about working with this commission and this community? >> Like I said, you're you are unique, but
you're in many ways you're similar to Next Door. I know Miami shore is in between, but you're similar to Bell Patel. Um the immediacy of your neighbors talking to you, knocking on your door, calling you at home is different than it
is in larger cities. It doesn't happen that much in the big cities, but here that's probably a daily occurrence for every one of you. And you know, like I said, I like that. That's that's true democracy. >> How do you stay current with developments in the local government
law? Would you be keeping the village updated? >> Um, I read, I look, I I'm involved with the League of Cities. I in the past I've lectured to the League of Cities. I was a hometown hero for fighting for local governments and fighting for home rule
on a number of occasions. Uh, I get bulletins from the League. I talk to my colleagues in municipal law. Sometimes if something's really naughty, I'll call somebody up and go, "What do you think about this?" So, a lot of ways I look at it. What are the duties of the village
attorney and who do you work for? >> Well, there no question that principally you work for the commission that hires you. It's my view that you also work for the administration because you're there. You've trusted an administration to get
stuff done and I'm there to help doing that and if the administration needs help, I got to help them. And I also feel that every village attorney or municipal attorney owes a duty to the citizens and that duty is loyalty, integrity, looking out for their best
interests, trying to you know watch their back. >> Thank you, >> Joe. Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe. When when I met Joe, when we started
talking on the phone, uh my job was a simple job. It was to uh interview Joe for a potential uh attorney position here within our village.
45 minutes later, what I got was the greatest political uh breakdown of the story of South Florida from any professor that I could have ever paid for. Uh at which point I even forgot the
question I had asked from the beginning. So I appreciate that Al. Uh so hopefully hopefully one day we could sit and we could continue that conversation because that was quite interesting. >> Win lose or draw commissioner anytime. >> Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. Um
so just basic some basic questions that I've asked the other commissioners. Um how many how many how many firms have you worked uh with here in South Florida? >> I started on my own when I came down from uh FSU. to work for a guy for about
a year and a half. Came down here and basically I hung out of shingle and about year and a half two years later my little brother got out of law school and we were Geller and Geller for 25 years and at the end of that 25 years we
merged into what was then a pretty small green spoon martyr. I mean bigger than us. We were five or six >> and they were I think 42 when we joined them and uh that's it. I'm I just don't have the time to be hopping around like
that. I I make do. Nothing's perfect in this life. The grass always looks greener, but honestly, Commissioner, I'm a pretty busy guy and all that throughput to change addresses and meet new people and all that. I like the lawyers I work with. I think it's a good
bunch. So other than my brother Steve and I merging with Greenspoon, I think in 2008, I've stayed put for damn near 50 years. All right. Thank you. You You lost me at hello, though.
Um, too many of um too many of the folks that we've had in the past uh have had histories that uh we weren't necessarily privy to or we kind of found out about it after the fact. I think part of that was on us not doing our due diligence
and whatnot. Um can you tell us in any of the firms that you worked with for consulted uh at any point were you let go from any of those firms and if so why? Never. >> Never. Well, that makes it easy, huh? Good.
And then the the last question that I have is do you know Al? >> You know, um I was talking to the manager the other day and he I'll say reminded me that we've kind of crossed paths a couple times over the years. Yeah.
>> I I think his memory is a little better than mine. I've certainly heard the name for a long time. So, I can tell you that uh um I'm not really acquainted with them. We might have met shaking hands, you know, in in my line. There's always a picture of you shaking hands with
somebody that you you may or may not remember, but um until this came up, I don't remember ever having a conversation of any length. I will tell you when we had the opportunity, we had a pretty extensive conversation. I
enjoyed it. I thought it was a good conversation and you know I'm I'm coming in I'm here to work with who you tell me to work with and you certainly seems like you got somebody with a lot of experience and I got to tell you I'm you
know prejudiced on the experience front. Although as I said to the captain when we were walking in the one thing about experience is never let it betray you. Never let it make you think you know something you don't know because there's always something you don't know and you still need to learn. That said, I
respect people with experience because it means they got stay in power. >> So would you feel at any point uh working under this manager and if you had an issue that you felt that you couldn't go to the manager
that you could come to us or somebody within the organization uh to talk about not not being able to work with I don't want to through something that's happened in the past where there have
been hard feelings and we haven't been privy to them and then they burst out. You know, I want to be in front of the front of the ship. So I want to know what's going on so that >> let me say first of all and again I I I try not to be you know some kind of
egotist but with all difference I don't work under the manager I work next to the manager. You know the manager is hired by you and I would be if I get this position I would be hired by you. I intend to always treat my colleague, my
my fellow person to get us where we need to go with respect to give difference to be open-minded, but I take orders from you and I try to collaborate together with a
manager. If I think there's a problem, as I said, not everybody loves me. I I don't keep it under my hat too well. question. >> Yeah, I I'm kind of outspoken and some people don't like that. And if there's an issue, I'm going to take it up first
with my colleague and I'm going to take it up second with you and ask one of you or all of you to help resolve it for the good of the people we serve. That ain't just you. That's that's the people who live here. So, I won't hesitate if there
is a real issue. Now, I don't mean some, you know, oh, so and so gave me kind of a dirty look and I I I'm too old for that. Don't care about that. But if it's a real issue about what's legal and what's proper, you're going to hear from
me. >> Thank you. >> First, let me say thank you, Mr. Giller, for being here. Thank you for that great presentation and thank you for great another great conversation we had the other night. >> Uh, that said, Mr. Mr. Mayor, can you see my notes because you stole my questions almost verbatim.
>> I'll uh dip down into one of my other questions. As one of only two national law firms applying for this position, how would you utilize that large national footprint to help uh assist the village to get us where we need to go? As you like to say, >> you know, there's things that come up that aren't routine. There are things
that come up that are not run-of-the-mill everyday issues. I got a immigration partner in New Jersey and she's amazing. She's terrific. If for some reason there was something that touched on immigration, maybe an
employee that you've got or if the chief comes to to me through the manager, he's got to respect that. Everybody who works here except me and my staff works for the manager except me and the clerk. So, but if there was something that the chief said, "What about this this um
state law? do we have to uh adopt that and work with it? That might be something that's kind of half Florida politics, but it's also half the immigration law. Uh I got another partner, a couple of them who were very involved with intellectual property. So
if there was something I've actually litigated intellectual property in federal court, but notwithstanding, if there was something that came up that was about intellectual property, I might call my partner in Arizona or one in New York City and say, "How do we stand on
this? How do we look? Is our position strong or position not so strong?" And you know, we've got people with, you know, mergers and acquisitions. I mean, we have people who have some very particular specialties, not necessarily right down here, and being able to
access them among our 225 lawyers across the country, it's a help. >> Thank you, Mr. Ger. >> Thank you, Commissioner. >> Well, Joe, I think that's it. Um, thanks very much for the time and the presentation and and speaking with each of the commissioners. And, um, we'll go
ahead and we're going to move on to the last two. >> Mayor, and let me just say it's a pleasure. I appreciate the opportunity to speak with all of you. Um, you know, we're hopeful, but um, with deference, I since you have properly invoked the rule, which I think is the right thing.
You don't want the last one here and what the first one says, I'm going to take the opportunity probably not to keep hanging out here because I know you'll be going quite late. Um, I hope somebody will advise me what happens though. >> Great, Joe. Thank you very much. >> You all very good. Very much. Have a
great evening. All right. So, our next presentation is with Mr. Palenuela. >> Mr. Palena and and Brad Oh, great. Okay, perfect. This is the resume then. Got it. Okay. Is it two
pages? >> Okay, got it. Thank you very much. >> What did we What did we say? was the pineapple pizza. >> Barbecue. >> The barbecue pizza. Okay. All right. You're up.
>> I I understand um you did or did not have a presentation you wanted to start with. You just want to get straight into the question. >> No, I have my presentation. >> Okay. >> And I I did provide my resume. I have in case you'd like a copy. >> Okay, great. So, um, just for your
benefit what we've been doing, just a reminder, we do 15 minutes for the presentation. Choose to use as much time as as you like. Uh, and then we're spending five minutes with each commissioner just kind of doing a back and forth on, uh, some questions. So, um, whenever you would like to get started, we'll get you started on the
15-minute presentation and the floor is now yours. >> Mayor and commissioners, I'm Alexander Peninsuela. I was way back, I was born here in Miami. I grew up in Alipata. I left Miami uh to study and I came back for law school and since then I've been
living and practicing here in Miami. Um >> sure. Can you hear me? >> That's better. Thank you. >> I founded my Thank you. my office which is a sole practice in 2012
and 90% of my work is representing municipal clients as outside council. Um in preparation for tonight's meeting I reviewed the village charter, the village code, your strategic action plan for 2025 to 2028.
um some of the agendas from 2025 of the meetings and I believe I have an understanding of the villages needs and challenges. Uh one thing that concerns me is a high millage rate and the fact that the legislature is proposing all these changes to limit or even
>> I'm sorry Mr. B so I can barely >> taxes I'm sorry >> thank you appreciate that >> fault. So, um, I'd like to emphasize the value that I think I offer, which is local government experience with efficiency and what I believe to be
dedication. Um, the team would consist of me. I'm a sole practitioner and I would be the sole point of contact. I would do all the work myself. If needed, I could contract out, but I've only done that twice for limited projects in the
13 years I've been on my own. And um from my resume, as you can see, I have experience in municipal law, public procurement, code enforcement, sunshine, public records, government ethics, labor and employment, building, permitting,
zoning, municipal clients, and creditor bankruptcy. I'm sorry, municipal leans. I can provide a broad range of knowledge and experience in various practice areas that are relevant to local government. I'd like to address any concerns you may have that I might get too busy as a sole
practitioner. I frequently work weekends as needed and if it really becomes necessary. In 2023, I took no vacation to make sure all the work got done on time that year. So, I'd also like to address any concerns that because I'm a sole practitioner, I may not have the
resources of of a larger firm. Um, and I'll tell you a story. A client of mine called me to say, "I'm sending you more of this work because I gave you and a large firm the same type of case at the same time, and now in your case, I'm getting planned payments from the debtor
that are equivalent to the invoices I'm getting from that other firm, and I haven't seen any money from the debt." So, it's not really about resources. It's about ability and knowledge to be able to provide the services in a way that is economical to the client.
So um as far as the scope of services, I've reviewed them and of course I would tailor those to the needs of the village. But the basic services I would agree to provide are serving as legal counselor to the village commission, the mayor, the village manager and all the
departments and boards as needed. I would um draft all legal documents, contracts, resolutions, ordinances, whatever is needed. I would represent the village myself in litigation and administrative proceedings including any
appeals. Um I would advise on specific areas such as labor and employment, public records, sunshine, whatever is needed. Um and I would supervise when there is outside counsel, for example, appointed by an insurance company, I would be the one to coordinate with
outside counsel. Um, as far as my experience, I was admitted to the bar in 1992, which is now 33 years ago. And, um, I worked for seven years out of law school at legal services in the housing unit where I started to learn things I
still use today, litigation skills, and I was admitted to the bankruptcy bar back then. And also, I learned to be self-reliant and to handle matters from beginning to end on my own, including appeals as needed. Um so after that I
went to work for the city of Halia. I was in house uh in their law department, one of seven attorneys. At that time the city was knocked by 200,000 people but we handled pretty much most of the legal work that what we did in farm out what we do ourselves. I did a lot of labor
work. I was hired for um disciplines and um arbitrations and I also did um ordinances and whatever was needed because when there's seven of you for a city that size, you have to know a little bit of different areas. Um I also after that I was only
there 13 months when I went to work for a private firm that specializes in representing municipal clients and I was there 10 years. I rose to the level of partner. I worked with many different sizes of cities but some small ones that
are similar in size um to Biscane Park such as Bay Harbor Islands, Bal Harbor, Surfside, Kiscane, Golden Beach. I did work for all of those clients either labor or code enforcement mostly but whatever else they asked me to do. Um
since 2012 on my own I've continued to represent cities. I provided uh the referrals for the three municipal clients I have now, which are Coral Gables, North Miami, your neighbor, and also Dana Beach.
Um, and while I've not been the village attorney myself, I have been general counsel to a housing authority for six years, and that's a very similar role. A lot of the same laws apply there. You actually have to know federal law as well applies to them. And um the
challenges that I've helped clients, cities overcome are we've won many uh injunction actions and core enforcement cases to help um people maintain make them maintain their properties in keeping with the code. I sat and began
the process to rewrite one of the city's codes. We went over every single chapter to discuss what needed to be updated and how. And um I've also conducted labor investigations of complaints of
discrimination for cities, including one that involved a huge number of employees that um took a year to conclude because it was so involved. Um as far as communication and availability,
um my I'm always available on my cell phone. If I can't answer it, I call back as soon as I can. I try to acknowledge all emails as as soon as I see them and reply to them within 24 hours. That's my policy. Um whether it's evenings, um
weekends, even if I'm on vacation, if it's an emergency, I make myself available. Um let me see. I would also be since I'm the one attending all the meetings and doing all the work, obviously, I would be the sole point of contact. I'd like to reassure
you that I would be an active and accessible partner with the commission and staff in achieving your goals. Um, as far as the fee structure, I accept the um offered rate of 125,000. The flat rate with 10 with um projects taking
more than 10 hours or any litigation being billable hourly. Those rates are commensurate with the rates I charge my current clients. So, I would accept all of that. My billing procedure is I keep contemporaneous time records of everything I do and then at the
beginning of the month I send an invoice whether it would be the flat work the flat rate work or the billable work so that you can see exactly what I'm doing for the village. So um should I be selected I'd like to say in closing I would be honored to help the village
achieve its goals. I'd like to state my commitment to serving the village's best interests. And I see myself as a resource for providing not only representation, but also advice and guidance while trying to anticipate and
avoid any problems. I would provide you the legal framework for decision making to enable you to meet your responsibilities and maintain the trust of your constituents. Thank you for your time and consideration.
Alex, thanks very much. Appreciate the time in in the presentation. So, just a reminder, we we're just kind of going down the line uh of commissioners spending five minutes on just questions and answers. Uh and then and we'll exhaust that and that'll conclude your time. So, we've been starting down here
with the vice mayor and she's graciously been starting us off every single time. So, vice mayor, the floor is yours. >> Thank you. Thank you so much for presenting tonight. Um we've seen most of them in PowerPoints, presentations and um I did review the rest and we had
a conversation. I appreciate it. Um and uh I think you extended a lot of what I was going to ask. So I have few questions about the model in which you provide your services. You're not with a big firm per se where we have an attorney currently that can go and have
someone else provide a second opinion on a matter. How do you deal with that? That would be my first question. But for second opinions, city, we call each other. I'm on a, for example, for real estate issues, I'm on a list serve. >> So that attorneys are constantly asking
other attorneys for forums, for advice, etc. I have people that I've worked with for years that I've known for years, whether existing clients or former clients, that they call me or I call them when they want to bounce ideas off of of someone else. >> Got it.
>> Those resource, that's a network. And this is something that you have to outsource as well. Do you pay for that service for you or >> No. But if I had to, you know, that's not legal work per se. That's, you know, bouncing ideas off of and advising people. But if it's billable work, then
in that case in two on two occasions for research assignments and discovery prep and things like that, I have hired outside counsel on an hourly basis, contract attorneys, right, to work with me. But generally I've been able to do all the work myself without an issue.
>> Great. I think that opens for my second question. How do you ensure transparency around when something qualifies as a special project exceeding the 10 hours? >> Well, the the scope of work says you have to get approval up front, right? And it gives examples, right? So maybe a
code rewrite that would be a special project that would warrant getting approval upfront for uh billing that hourly, right? But otherwise litigation because that's always unpredictable. You never know, right? If it's not covered
by insurance, then that would be done billable. >> Got it. Um going back to the code because you brought a point about um m you know making sure it's it's stays up to up to date. How do you make sure major revisions of the code remain compliant
with state law and municipal best practices? Well, we try it. Every year I go to the Florida Municipal Attorneys Association trainings and we get updates, legislative updates on what's going on, what affects the cities, whether it's uh
more um home rule preeemptions or other issues. So, we try to stay on top of what's happening. But specific code provisions, I would research any applicable statutes uh when we're trying to rewrite that particular section of of the code to make sure as part of that
job that it's um you know that the revisions are compliant with current law. >> Got it. Are you prompt to do this or is this suggested by you? What I'm trying to say is a lot of of it has to do with the knowledge of our code. You have to
be very well savvy about what the rules for the village are. When you see something that deserves to be touched, is this something you expect the commission or the manager administration to bring forward? or is this something that initiates from you? >> It's the attorney's job. If I see
something in a code provision that's either outdated because the statute was revised and it needs to be updated in your code, you'll still follow the statute, right? But in the meantime, I it would be my job to point that out that um there's an issue with the code
that needs to be addressed. >> Got it. And my last question for transparency, how did you get here today? Do you have any relationship with the manager? Anybody? >> No, ma'am. I never met anyone in this room >> before I put in for this. I was asked
through the network if I the person that they asked, she could not do it. And she put my she asked me if I would be interested. I said, "Of course, yes." And she put my name in the hat. But I've never met neither Mr. Childress nor any on the commission.
>> Thank you so much. Th those are it. Uh so Alex, thanks again for the presentation, being here, taking the time to meet with us and in um in the interest in the position. So just as a reminder, you said most of the municipal clients that you serve uh you serve in
the role of outside counsel. Is that the correct >> outside counsel for that? >> Okay. So, um, can you just talk to me in in the commission a little bit about how you personally view the attorney position, the interactions with the manager, the role with the manager, the interactions with the commission, the role with the commission, just how you
kind of perceive those relationships and how those relationships should play out. >> Well, I as the attorney, I represent the village, right? But in practice, the village, I represent the commissioner, the commissioners. You make policy. I help the manager implement policy. As I
said, I provide that legal framework for you to make informed decisions on what your options are. I would give advice and guidance, but I don't have a vote on the on the council right on the commission. That would be your decision and then it would be up to the manager
with my assistance to implement that. That's how I see it. >> Sure. I treat everyone staff and everyone is like my client in the day-to-day but ultimately uh as an organization you the the people on the
dis are the ones that make the decisions the policy decision. >> Sure. I I appreciate that. Thank you. Sure. So you mentioned with some of the municipalities that you've worked with and served in as outside council for mentioned some of the I think you'd mentioned and I may be incorrect but some of the smaller ones. Uh I think
you'd mentioned uh Bay Harbor, Bal Harbor, Golden Beach. Geographically small certainly uh tax base and in revenue not very small. >> So really quite quite significantly and critically different than than how Biscane Park is positioned. So can you just tell us a little bit about your
experiences with with those municipalities, your role there and how you think that that would transfer and and better best serve the Bisgame Park community? Well, I mean, as far as code enforcement issues that come up in residential areas and things
like that, noise is noise, whether it's a wealthy neighborhood or not. So, a lot of the same issues come up. And I'm I think they're they're different as far as the income, right, the the median income and things like that. But in the end, all
cities basically are run pursuant to the same principles, the same laws, the same dynamics. So I think that whatever experience I have in any city really would be relevant to to working here. But I would
have to make it my job to discover what your goals are and how you go want to go about it here. So I mean, I know you're all residential, right? So that presents the issue of there's no like I don't know, a toll bridge or something that brings in additional revenue. It's all
going to come from taxes and you're already at your high millage as I mentioned. So here the challenge would be that I would look forward to is trying to find alternatives if any of these changes come to pass like how are you going to increase that income right
that you're losing? How are you going to get that some from another source that's permissible and that you know would work for the for the village? No, I I appreciate that. Um, Alex, I I don't have any other questions right now, so I'll pass it on to the next commissioner. Thank you very much. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you for your presentation and thank you for meeting with meeting with me. I enjoyed our conversation. >> Thank you. >> Uh, if any commissioner approaches you for advice, uh, do you feel that you have to have a third person present in order to talk to that commissioner?
>> No. >> Okay, that was that was okay. That's simple. Okay. We have a small community and our commissioners are ready residents who have volunteered to help guide the village for a very small amount of money. Our commissioners are
not career politicians. How do you support a commission that may need a lot of support without overstepping your boundaries? >> In what sense though? Like me my support would be my time, my advice, my
guidance. uh the boundary I think I make clear is like I would not be the one making decisions I would be the one providing advice and guidance for others for you the majority you're a collegial body the policy for the village if you worked
for other small count communities what do you find unique about working with this this commission and this community >> I'm sorry could you repeat if you have you have worked with small other small communities right okay what what do you find unique about this game park.
>> Well, I never represented a community that was exclusively residential. I keep mentioning that, but that is unique to I think maybe El Portal also is like that, but I've never worked with them. But every other Well, Golden Beach, I think, is all residential, but again, different
tax base, right? But most cities, they have at least one other source of income. Like Aventur has the mall, right? There's a lot of retail. There's always some other um commercial or other source. Like I said, the toll bridge could be a source of income that
would make this community different. >> What do you believe the duties of the village attorney is and who does he work for? >> The duties. >> What is the duties of the village attorney and who does he work for? >> The the commission. the the I would rep
as I've explained I represent the village through the commission and the duties of the attorney are to provide everything I listed as far as those services not just time and and documents and things like that but advice and guidance and helping people avoid
pitfalls that I may already be aware of or that we may discover through the representation. >> Okay. Thank >> Sure. Oh, it's my turn. >> You're up, Bart. >> No basketball questions.
>> I wouldn't. >> Alexander, thank you for uh coming here. Thank you for our brief call the other day. It was interesting. Uh so, a couple of questions for you real just real quick. Um
you graduated from the University of Miami Law School, correct? Yes, sir. >> And straight out of there, you decided that you wanted to go into your own do your own thing. >> No, no, I was at legal services. I was in lit skills. >> Okay.
>> And may I answer now? >> Yes, please. >> I was in um their litigation skills program and they asked me if I wanted to work at legal services and being from a humble background, I wanted to give back after Georgetown and Andover and Sepool
and all that. So I said definitely. I was there for seven years. >> Oh, okay. >> And I worked in the housing unit uh defending people um who were under eviction from public housing who were losing their homes to foreclosure. That's why I did the bankruptcy work. >> Okay. I I missed that whole part.
>> No, no. I wasn't on my own until 2012. So 13 years ago, I started my own practice. >> So you you left them in 2007? I was at um legal services from 1992 to 1999, seven years.
>> Then I was at Halia for 13 months in house >> and then I went to a firm where I worked for 10 years and I I was a partner at the time that >> Oh, okay. And then you went and then and then when you went solo >> right after I had all that experience.
>> Got it. You said that um in one of your one of your explanations, you mentioned that you've never actually worked uh full-time and in an an attorney client relationship with any any particular uh city.
>> No, what I said was I've never been the sitting city attorney, but was the attorney. Yeah. >> And individuals from the firm would sit >> as city attorney. But on my own, I was for six years general counsel to a housing authority, which is the same the
equivalent position. >> Okay. So, would you say that you're very familiar with the the politics and all of the stuff that goes on in in these uh deases? >> Yeah, >> I would say yes. I would say yes. >> Okay. So, so so you graduated from M. Uh
what other what other uh titles uh do you hold uh other than medical do medical physician >> other than my legal? >> Yeah, other than your medical >> an attorney with a JD. I have a certificate of political studies from
COP but that's an undergraduate thing. >> I have my my degree from Georgetown from the school of foreign service but my only license is to practice law. But you've you've you've studied other
things besides just the law. I studied in originally I did as an undergrad. It's called the bachelor's in the science of foreign service BSFS. So I did international law, international relations. >> Nice.
>> I studied in Paris for a year. >> Yeah. >> Before that I I had lived with a family when I was in in um high school. I had a scholarship that I transferred to go abroad for a year, which is what got me into the entire
>> diplomacy thing. But as life happens, you know, I took a job working at legal services and then a job working for a city. So I never did go into the foreign service or do any of those things, but I speak French with some of my Haitian clients. So I use those skills, too.
>> All right, last last question. Uh what's your long-term goal from here? my long-term goal to continue to do what I'm doing until I can't do it anymore and maybe >> in the municipal space or in in other in other ventures?
>> No, as I said, 90% or more of my cl my clients are it's municipal law, governmental law. I do have private clients that have dealings with cities. If I can help them and there's no conflict, I have some private clients. I'm on the list of French-speaking
attorneys with the consulate, but um that work, it's not my bread and butter, which is cities. >> Got it. >> If I were to be lucky enough to get the position here, I would my goal would be to keep it as long as the commission will have me.
>> Got it. Thank you. So, >> thank you. >> Thank you, Alexander, for being here and thank you for that presentation. Thank you also for that great phone call we had the other day. >> Uh I really only have one question for you. two concerns uh for you have this position is the not having experience as
a city and city attorney and not having a staff to back you up. How do you use both utilize your experience to overcome those two issues to uh overcome a unanticipated workload that might be larger than you anticipated being here in the village?
>> As example, I had a hearing ear last month and I knew for the two weekends before I would work to make sure that I was ready for the hearing. I mean, you manage your time accordingly. And as I've said, in all the years I've been practicing law, I've never missed a
deadline because I was too busy. You prioritize to make sure that those deadlines are met. And then I would contract out if I had to. If the work were sufficient and continual, I would hire some. I could always hire some as
well and as an employee, not just as a contract attorney or give them more hours whether they're an employee or not. So, but as I've said, I haven't had that need. And then I want to say on the being the
general counsel for a housing authority is very similar to being a village attorney, a city attorney. And even if I'm not the one in the hot seat, I am the one who has been backing up that attorney, helping them get everything done, you know, preparing them for what
they need to do when they're on the dis. So I am familiar with all the issues that they have to deal with. I've researched it for them. I've prepared it for them. So you know it's never the same I think is when you're in the hot seat as I said but when you're the general counsel for the housing
authority that is the same position it is political just like it would be sitting on a dis here so I have for that six years of very relevant experience as the general counsel as the equivalent of the village attorney for the rest of it
it's doing all the support work everything else that they asked me to do as outside counsel whether it's code enforcement or labor or any of the myriad things that city attorneys or general counselss for housing authorities have to be able to deal with. Public records, sunshine, the
labor issues, as I've said, contracts, procurement, all of that is it overlaps under on both of those types of clients and other local like special uh districts and things like that. There are many kinds of governmental clients where it's not just you know
municipalities and counties. >> Perfect. Thank you. Thank you, >> Alex. I think that's it. Thank you so much for the time, for the presentation, for being here with us, and for spending some time with each of the commissioners. >> Thank you. >> So, I'll wait outside. >> Yeah, we have one more and then uh then
we'll reconvene, I think. >> Thank you very much. Get up there and fill buster. Thank you. Is this mine or yours? This is mine. Okay. Okay. Now is a good time. Uh I say as soon as he gets in here so
we have enough time. I know where it is. That's fine. Well, you were the one that said that we were going to do that. >> We are. >> That's true. It can work that way.
He's right. It's going to keep us on task. He's like, "Let's go. Gotcha. Sure. Sure. And as far as I'm concerned, art, you
can make a motion anytime you want. I just wrote it down on a piece of paper. Well, I don't know. I'm old school. >> That's fine. I get it. I get it. Good evening, Brad.
whenever you >> outside that whole time. Were you? >> No, I've been sitting in village hall. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um I I know you I know if I may. >> Well, just wait once Vice May
>> I know some people were saying they were just going to stand around outside and it started raining and it's humid and >> all opened up village uh village hall. We appreciate that. >> All right. >> It's more comfortable than sitting in my car. >> Certainly. Then farm work, then I went
on the balcony or the at patio. Yeah, way worse. Waiting for Commissioner Hind for the first one and then the second love Bitcoin. >> All right, Brad. So, um just a reminder the way we've been doing it, 15 minutes
all or little as you like. Uh and then after you're you've concluded with your presentation, we're just spending five minutes with with each commissioner asking questions. So, um without any further ado, floor is yours. >> Much good evening, mayor, vice mayor, commissioners. Thank you for the
opportunity to address you. Um, as you as you u must have received on Friday, I I sent you a PowerPoint with a little bit of a background of of our firm. Um, I'm not going to go into that into that whole PowerPoint. I'm sure you
all had a chance to review it. There's just a few things I just want to highlight. I'll be I'll be brief and um and then I'll be available to answer any questions or hear any comments that you'd like to make. Um, as and I'm just briefly about the firm.
The firm's 28 28 attorneys in offices in South Florida, in Tampa, and in Tallahassee. Um the the firm handles um local government law. We do land use and real estate, litigation and appellet law, federal grants, public finance,
public utilities law, special projects financing, um all aspects of of representing law enforcement agencies throughout the state as well as we provide um special magistrate services for various um jurisdictions throughout throughout the state of Florida. Um
what's unique about our firm is that our clients are are only governmental entities. we do not represent any private clients whatsoever. And um the advantage of the fact that we only represent governmental entities is we very very rarely if ever have any
conflicts where there's a situation where this either the village or any other municipality is in need of representation and because of who the other party is that um that might be suing or or bringing an administrative action or whatever it is that they might
be doing. We never have conflicts because we never represent any of these private entities that might be bringing um any type of an action against the municipality. And excuse me, I'm losing my voice a little bit, but um so that's the advantage of the firm and and and our and our representation.
Um as as a client of our firm, as I said, we have 28 lawyers all with various backgrounds and specialties. um you don't you're not just hiring or retaining in this case, excuse me, um myself as as your village attorney. You
have the resources of the firm. You have the resources of all these other attorneys that h that have expertise in various fields. Um we all have general government experience but there are certainly some lawyers that in the field of public finance um utilities law um in
real estate and land use that that are very experienced and that's their specialties. And when those issues arrive um that you may have need counsel on the firm is here and those lawyers are here and and able to um to assist
the village in your needs. And I will tell you that in representing the village since um since I've arrived here, it's it's not unusual at all. It's it's very usual for me to be reaching out to some of these other attorneys who have more expertise in certain fields
and get their guidance and and assist me in providing counsel to the village um with regards to various issues that we've encountered over the time that I'm here. Um just as a little bit more background um we firm the firm's been with you since um 2021
um you've had as as you know you had initially Valerie Vicente was was your village attorney then you had Ed Dion as your village attorney and then myself. Um in 2021 the agreement um or the services the way you retained us just so
you're aware is that a request for qualifications was put out and we we um responded to that request for qualifications. It was a competitive bidding process and review and um the firm was awarded the contract to be your your village attorney and provide legal
services to the village um in 2021. that initial contract was for $75,000 a year as a excuse me a flat fee. In October of 21, you all increased um that contract from $75,000 to $82,500.
And then in November of last year of 2024, you all increased that uh rate to um $99,996. And um the services that we've provided for for the village over the course of those years are general legal consulting
and advice to the commission um as a whole um to individual commissioners. Many of you have either contacted previous attorneys or myself and and sought counsel or interpretation of law or various contracts or other matters
that have been uh come come before you for consideration. Um, we review um all um new legislation to make sure that the county or I'm sorry that the village is um responsive and and and uh in
accordance and and compliance with all new legislation. Um we also are drafting agreements and reviewing agreements that come out with regards to vendors uh municipal umus with other municipalities.
Uh we prepare resolutions for for the commission, prepare ordinances, and we have on occasion when we're requested to do so is to sit down and discuss with individual commissioners their own agenda items that they want to present and help them either formulate their
their their memos. We'll perform research for the for that individual commissioner so that they're prepared to present their items and and assist any way that we can in moving your agenda forward. Um, you all have firsthand experience um with with my work product
and my responsiveness. Um, I make an effort no matter what what's going on whether I'm involved in village affairs on a particular day or not to call you all back if if or respond to your emails at least before the end of the day. Um,
if not within the the next morning. Um, I don't think I've ever been nonresponsive or or responded any where it's taken any longer than I would say 12 to 16 hours to to return your calls or return an email. And I think that
would be an outlier. I think for the most part, anytime any of you have reached out to me, the response has been within a few hours, if not before the close of business of of the day in which the request was made. I would also note that I've I've had
private discussions with with several of you as the this this matter came up and and our compensation came up and and you all decided to go this route and and look at the possibility of retaining other counsel. Um, I've had both
publicly and privately from what at least from what I know is there's I haven't heard any issues or concerns that that any of you have expressed at least to me or I've heard publicly with regards to the services that either the firm has provided or
that I've personally provided to the village or to any of you individually. I understand with the exception with with Commissioner Samaria and I'm not singling her out, sir, but just to just to address it, I think it just needs to be addressed. Um, we did have some
issues. Um, we've discussed them publicly. Um, pretty was I thought I was very clear that um, I'm willing to I'm not even willing. I'm ready to move on. and I have moved on and I don't see any impediment from what's happened in the
past would prevent me from consulting with uh Commissioner Samaria discussing agenda items providing research or whatever it is Commissioner Samaria needs in order to push his agenda forward and to to to be able to participate in in this
collegial body. Um as we we talked about um back in oc I think it was October the beginning of October during your second budget meeting um the issue came up about the firm's compensation we entered
into negotiations with with the commission with regards to the compensation um moving forward um ultimately those negotiations resulted in the firm agreeing as I believe these other firms have um to an annual fee of
$125,000 for the legal representation that we've been providing. Um, we agreed further after there was an inquiry made by the manager um as to whether or not we would agree to to a long-term agreement for multiple years at that rate. We agreed
that we would we would agree to remain at $125,000 for the next two years and that um after that we would ask that there would be an increase per year tied to the consumer price index which is anywhere between 1% and 3%. Um if you
look historically of what it's been over the last three the last couple of years, excuse me. Um, but essentially I mean, you know, my work product, so I'm I'm not going I don't think it I'm going to take a whole lot of time going much further into the
presentation. And at this point, I just would offer myself to any comments or questions that you might have. >> Great. Brad, thank you very much uh for taking the time to to run through the presentation. Um, so the way we've just been doing this with with every candidate, we're just starting on one
end and just moving down the line. And for the last time tonight, Vice Mayor, you are getting us started. >> Thank you so much for the presentation, Brad. It's weird to see you standing, I have to say, in front of us. >> It's a little weird, but you are.
>> Um, but I appreciate the intro. So, you you get the tougher questions because an incumbent usually happens, right? You you have more history with us. We have history to share and the reason why you're here. So, my first question to you is why are we here? What do you think you're here for as a firm, you
know, that is introducing it services again? How do we get here? >> Well, you ask me why we're in this position. >> Yeah. Why are we this in this position? You feel that now we have to consider other firms? >> Well, I I I don't know that I can address that quite frankly. I mean,
>> yeah, >> I'm guessing I mean, obviously what precipitated us getting here was the firm asking for additional funds. >> Yeah. >> Um I I I'm going to assume from at least some of the conversations I've had with
some of you in individually that the amount we asked for you you all believed was excessive and that um I don't know if taking offense is the right word, but it >> Yeah. >> irritated it. It caused at least some, if not all of you, to decide that you
wanted to look outside and and see what else you can what else you can get as far as legal services for for less. >> Um, I can tell you that that that amount was >> it was a starting point. That was our intent is to start somewhere and and
have a a healthy discussion, you know, based on the services we were providing, based on the amount of time we've been we were dedicating to the village um to have a discussion about >> what we all thought would be a reasonable
uh annual fee for provide continuing to provide legal services. Um got it. It was not and I and I can tell you that it the intent was not to come up with some absorbent amount so that you would tell us to to leave and and ask that was not our intent.
>> Yeah. Um thank you. And so with that in mind, what do you think are the main improvements you would make if we were to engage back in a contract with the new conditions that you've sort of presented knowing what you known? And I
mean it's weird that a year ago I think we were asking you to please the firm to stay. You guys were trying to quit on us. We were asking the firm to stay and now you're in this situation. What would you do differently based on all those learning sins? I think one of the things that that I would do is I would if we
were to be retained as as your firm, one of the things I would the first thing I would like to do is I would like to sit down with the manager and have a have a meeting and discuss our relative uh positions, what it is our roles are. Um talk with each the two of us talk out
what our expectations are from each other in the role as a as a city attorney and as a village manager. and and and hopefully that conversation would also morph into how we can help each other do our jobs more efficiently and more effectively. Um I I think there
has been some I think there have been some things that have just been lost in translation back and forth between um some of the council that I've provided and that information that's been relayed back to to the commission. Um, and I think that's just a matter of
communication and opening up that line of communication and and setting those expectations and goals for each other. >> All right. that >> I think well and just to piggy just to continue on that communication. I think the other thing I would do at this point
moving forward is I would reach out to each individual commissioner and try to set up some type of a where we can have either a monthly or by monthly certainly an agenda review either with the manager present or individually um do some type
of review so that one we we can discuss the agenda items um if there's any concerns I can express those to to the commission um individually and also So, so that you can know what projects I'm working on because it puts as a city
attorney, it puts you in a difficult position when there's something that's publicly said on the during the course of a commission meeting. >> Yeah. that needs to be corrected because then there's an analysis that has to be done by the by that attorney as to what are the ramifications if if the public
statement is made because this is a public realm and I think those private conversations before before commission meetings and and we'll iron those things out and and I think the commission will be more informed. >> My last question I think I have about a
minute. What is your philosophy regarding documentation of opinions and when do you believe reading opinions are necessary for accountability? >> Again, I'm sorry I couldn't hear you. >> So, what is your philosophy regarding documentation of opinions and when do
you believe written opinions are necessary for accountability? Um, I think we have to be careful with written opinions quite frankly because of public records law. And I think you've all heard me on previous occasions during meetings where somebody would ask me a
question and ask me to expound on you know what somebody has to do to sue or what would cause a what what facts would cause a um an action to be brought against the against the village. And I think my response has been I don't want to in educate somebody out there how to
sue the village. So I think we have you have to be careful as to what we put in. writing and I and for the most part I think discussions have to are are better than than written correspondence when it comes to opinions and advice. But I think there are certain there are certain matters that have to be placed
in writing. Um it really depends specifically on what the what the issue is and what what type of advice I'm >> Got it. Thank you for for answering those questions. Now my time. Uh Brad, thanks again for the presentation and spending the time up on on this side of
it to take some questions from the commission. So um in in in the description or you know what the the description of of what I would do differently or or how I would approach the relationships, it sounded a little bit to me like um you're saying let's
get a clean slate. Let's reassess. Let's reestablish, you know, and not entirely. I'm not saying entirely because you you have a body of work here. Obviously, the firm has a body of work here. You have you're in the advantageous position of us knowing what we're getting. So, um
and it just and I don't mean that from a negative perspective in any in any respect. Um it's it's a refreshing thing to hear to say, look, if there are any issues, we're going to iron them out. So, I can appreciate that. And on that same on that same level, I guess,
do you in any way look at this whole process? I mean, this has been going on now for I don't even know how long. I think I've said to you a number of times, I don't even remember how we got here at this point. I don't even know how we got to this night cuz things have changed. I mean, the the road has forked and we've gone ways that I didn't expect
them to go. Um, but it's fine. You know, we're here and we're doing the diligence. So, let me just ask you from a personal perspective, from the Fern's perspective, does this whole process in any way sour that relationship with the village? Will it impact your ability to
kind of serve at the the will of the commissioner as a constitutional officer? >> I'm sorry. >> Well, >> that's why I asked you. >> Let me just say and let me just say one thing and and if I may and then address that. >> Yeah, of course. >> What I was saying to Commissioner Amsler about meeting with with Mr. Childress
and sitting down, that is not a knock or intended in any way to be a knock on on Mr. Children. >> I didn't interpret that way. And if it came off that way, that's not that's not what I was trying to >> understand that. Yeah. He's a he's more he's a very capable manager and I just think that we could be more effective
representing the village and doing things for the village if we could have that conversation. And I think and I'll take blame for that because I should have had that conversation. Um but to answer your question, no. There's no animosity, no ill feeling. Um, I mean,
we we serve, quite frankly, we serve at the will of the commission. And if the commission I mean, I hope that you're you're all satisfied with with the work that we've done up to now. I hope you're satisfied and were, you know, felt that
I was representing the village, you know, properly and well. And um, but I mean, we all we've all been through this as municipal lawyers from one aspect or or another. I mean, I've I've been I've you know, I worked in the
city of Fort Lauderdale um when I was in house as an assistant city attorney and I went through two um one village manager and two city attorneys being fired publicly after public comments and them being um evaluated publicly where
one of them was told to leave the dis right in the middle of the meeting. So I mean so the answer to your question is no and and Commissioner Gonzalez I know he says you indicate and I certainly understand that but I think the nature of what we do as municipal lawyers we understand that this is not a permanent
position and this happens. I mean I'm not it's not something I it's not something I like. It's not something I wish I wasn't here and we weren't having these conversations and I was still sitting where Andrew is but I'm not. And if it if if we're fortunate enough to be
retained, um it is as if this never happened and we move forward and hopefully move forward more effectively and more efficiently than we than I was when I was here pre previously. Doesn't make sense, but but you know, you know, >> yes, I know I know what you mean. That's
I I appreciate Brad. I I don't have any other questions, so I'll go ahead and pass it on. Thanks. >> First off, I would like to thank you for your presentation, but I have no questions for you. I'm going to save my comments for when we have the voting. Thank you. >> Commissioner,
>> just a quick comment. >> Okay. >> Back in 2020, I had a very similar experience with my boss and I actually asked him for a $75,000 increase just like the same increase that you guys
asked for. the uh the results that came back from the Ivory Towers was that they would be willing to give me 5,000 now and talk about the uh other uh the other money
down the road which meant to me that money was never going to talked about. Right? So that at that point right then and there I said look these people obviously don't see the value that I bring to this organization. So I'm out and I left and took me a couple of
months but I left and I went to work for a company out in Boston. Um but what I'm trying to say is that a lot of times and I don't know who brought this uh increase. Was it you or was it your firm that brought this increase? It was a disc it was a discuss I brought
it to you obviously but >> whose idea was it initially? >> It was uh initially I would say it was after I had evaluated our hourly our hours that we were performing and um what did what that equated to at at the
current rate it was a conversation that I had with several of the managing partners. Um, if I remember correctly, I think the number cuz when I started figuring out the the hourly rates that the number was m came from me first and
that the the partners said, you know, because obviously I had discussed with them before I could come back and and make that ask and they said we could that we should make that ask. So, so, so, so, so that that's my concern and to to to his point and and I
know and I hear what you're saying, but at the end of the day, you feel that based on the the the amount of work that you do here and the the amount of that you put up here and the amount of stuff that you go through here, uh, you should be getting a
minimum of a 175. that that's that's my perception and what you requested from the beginning. That's what you felt at that point. Look, that's what I that's what I should be getting. >> And then you came back to us obviously,
you know, when you when you said that that wasn't going to happen. Then we went down to 1375. Then we went down at 125. But the question for me is, and I and I know what you're going to say, but from a human
psyche, you know, thinking that you're worth 175 and getting paid 125, are you going to do 125 worth of work and when when perhaps before you were doing 150 worth of work
at at 125 rate? You get you get what I'm saying? >> I do. If if May I address it? Yes, please. >> So, I mean, here here's the thing. So, and and here's why I'm not going to repeat it because you know exactly what I'm going to say it. I can move forward at 125, you're going to get the same, if
not a better attorney if we can, you know, improve some of the processes that I've already described for that rate. And if it's if it's 140 hours a month, it's 140 hours a month. My obligation as an attorney, first of all, is to do what
needs to be done and represent the village to my best of my ability. So that that's not going to change whether you pay me $10 or you pay me $250,000, it's it's not going to change. So, and it's not about my self-worth, quite
frankly. I mean, if whether you pay the whether you pay the firm 125 or you pay the firm 75 or 175, I'm I'm a salaried employee. I mean, I quite frankly I don't get any more out of it depending on what you know what you pay to the to
the the firm. Um, so it really it it's not a it's not a hit on my ego. Um, I don't think you can't and quite frankly, you can't be in this business and have that kind of an ego. So, you really can't. I mean, you're going to take
criticism from elect from electeds. You're going to take criticism from the public. Um, it's just this is the nature of the business and this is the business I chose to be in. So, so no, it really is not an issue. >> All right.
>> Yeah. First off, Brad, thank you for your presentation. Thank you for being here tonight. Uh, I really only have one question. Uh, reviewing over the documents you sent over, it reminded me that, uh, this is going on a fiveyear relationship with the village and you'd be the third attorney, uh, signed by the firm. Uh I know you've heard me talk
about continuity in government and how it's very important. Uh if we continue this relationship, how will the firm and and you personally uh ensure that we have that continuity in government. So we the village benefits from that institutional knowledge you personally have built and the firm has built. >> Yeah. I'm not going anywhere. I mean I
don't have any plans on going anywhere. So, it's um the way we're structured in in the South Florida office is uh and I I mean I'm and I don't have any plans on retiring anytime soon if that's what you're asking. Um I'm the firm is not
looking to get as far as I know. I mean, I could wake up tomorrow morning and I they could call me and tell me I don't have a job anymore, but it would be a shock. Um, as far as I know, I have a job with the firm for as long as I want a job and I enjoy what I do and I want to continue working and do this. So, I
mean, I'm 65 years old. I'm planning on working until I'm 70 at least. So, you have me for at least another five years, if not longer. That that answers the question. >> It does. Thank you, Brad. >> Hi, Brad. I think that's it. So, I appreciate you uh spending the time and
presenting to us and answering some questions again on on this side of it. So, uh, I think at this time, uh, if I think we still have everybody over there. >> Yeah, there were several. I don't know if everybody's over there. Didn't look like every >> I'm sorry. >> No, I meant to bring them all back in for the >> Some didn't like I didn't see Mr. Geller
come back. >> No, he he told us that he was going to be stepping away just due to the lateness of the hour. So, I think at this time we'll have >> attorneys were in there. >> Yeah. Everyone that wants to come back in, come back in for the >> Yeah, sure. For the for the last portion of this. >> Oh, you went. >> All right, then. There we go. Sorry.
Yeah. take a seat and we appreciate your time. >> So, Mr. Mayor, while we're waiting, I I said before, I don't know if Commissioner HS heard me, uh, but I made I took the liberty of making a spreadsheet with every uh candidate and every commissioner, I don't know what
the the um commission wants to do, whether or not we want to list them one through five or we want to just say two yeses. So, these are our two yeses. I'm fine with either way we want to do it, but I can take accounting of it and and remind us if we anyone forgets. Well,
why don't we um I don't know if if Art I know Art mentioned he may just want to try and advance something. Uh that's that's his prerogative obviously, but I think maybe we start maybe we start with just the top two and see if we have some some alignment between the commission.
>> I say I think it's just much easier just to list your in order who you like. >> I I mean I think it's six or one at this point. >> Okay, maybe I Well, here's what it is. If you want to put the top two, let's say the top mine just is three. I have three that I'm >> sorry if you want to say
>> All right. Just >> five. >> Put them in order. >> I um >> just for also procedure sake, we're selecting a number one candidate and then a backup number two for >> in the event that we have any issues with negotiation with the first. What were you going to say? Um, so the idea is that everybody just
throws out the two names and we put it in a list and we move forward with the >> Well, so we what we were just talking about is the difference between doing just your top two or just put in order 1 2 3 4 5. >> Okay. >> Then we'll see if we have any alignment at the top. I guess
>> as I think my biggest cons was concern was that in case we don't have everybody that has one and two there might be you know one that has three and and and doesn't have the two votes >> that's so so for me it's easier than that I don't I don't think I need to go
to a process of like one through five um I prepare a statement I'm ready to vote um I'll put it out there as the first one if you guys are okay with that >> look I think if I'm not mistaken And this might be a question for you, Andrew. Um, if I'm not mistaken, anyone
can advance a motion at any time if they feel that they want to put someone forward. >> That's correct. If someone wants to put a motion on the floor, they can do that right now. >> What you're saying is because like we did with this city manager we had where each individual picked one person. I wasn't assuming and I was misled when we
did that. Managers, my person that I picked wasn't the person that I was choosing. It was just somebody that I wanted to have a conversation. and then the other two commissioners picked what the city manager and that was automatically two votes. I didn't count that as a vote. >> Okay. >> I wasn't able to change my mind because
if I would have changed my mind then I would have went with probably Mr. Lennon. It would have been a two two tie and then we would had a different process. >> So Mr. Mayor, would you what what can happen is uh either what could happen is a commissioner can make a motion either to for one particular person and then it gets opened up to discussion if there's
a second or the other thing is a commissioner can make a motion for them to proceed with voting and a ranking structure because it sounds like there's different things that that different commissioners may want to do. So there's a motion if there's a second uh then you move to discussion and then you can have
a vote on that up or down either way. So depending on the procedure, that's the role of the commission. >> So same. So it would come back I appreciate that. Thank you. So it would come back to what my initial thought was. If if some look, we can talk about how we want to rank this and then go forward. But if somebody has a motion and they want to offer it, we can't stop
that person. >> I understand that. But if you're having where where you having one person says, "Okay, I nominate number one." And the other one seconds at number two, then you automatically go into a vote because you assume one and two is already have their votes. >> Can I suggest >> that's how it works? Can I suggest
something? Is it is it can a discussion happen before or do we need a motion on the floor to discuss anything? Can we talk about the presentations at hand and and then decide based on the feedback that we all share? Um who wants to make
a motion? >> We can um >> I propose that would be the the the opportunity and you can set up a time um of 10 15 minutes. We talk about pros and cons and we move make a motion once
everybody has shared their piece. >> So that's the proposal from the vice mayor. If anyone wants to second that process of of having a discussion and then going to >> So my proposal is that we um have a conversation about everything we've
heard tonight in the different firms that we share likes and you know not dislikes but you know what our strengths are for each. Yeah. that we can all share and have a conversation and then you know explain why and then based on that whoever feels after we've had a
conversation we put us 10 minutes to to you know chat it among ourselves we make a motion anybody can it's free to make a motion I I well >> I think you can spend as much time or as little time as you like >> I like your idea but could we do where just let's say pick your top three and
let's see if the top three is in that order and then you can have a discussion if it's between I'm sorry between one and two and we don't need to discuss all the candidates if if all the commission is basically let's say uh number one number two and number three is basically
picked by all the commissioners in their top three then we don't need to really have a discussion about the other two >> okay so um again I I feel it's it's maybe open more for discussion but I'm going to start um
based on what you're offering again I don't know what the what the feedback was for the proposal that I had at the the table >> I would think that >> before you start discussing is that a motion you put on the floor to >> No I'm saying before we put a motion to >> I'd like to make a motion do we each identify our top two
>> okay >> with that you can spend as much time talking about them >> that's what I was hoping to do >> we want to share our perspectives then we can do so but I would second commissioner Huntington's motion If the major agree with each other if the majority doesn't have the top two meaning >> then we have to keep going.
>> Yeah. Keep on going. Okay. No. Okay. Okay. Fine. I I I have no problem with that. >> So then Vice Mayor, did you want to get us started? >> Um yes, I have the plan. Sorry for those that >> Oh, sorry. Uh so the motion uh was put forward by Commissioner Huntington. I second it. Um all in favor of the the
pending motion I I >> No. Um yeah. No. Uh three. No. I I want top three. So the answer would be my vote will be no. >> Okay. Or did you vote yes? All right. So
then it's three to two. Go ahead. >> All right. All right. So for me, the reason I said no is I I I don't foresee um I didn't foresee this process of coming out with top two, top three or anything like that. So um this process
for me was not to choose the next attorney tonight. This was to do due diligence about assessing the market and ensuring that we are paying fairly um and what is required for the job that we have the right attorney in place and
if not to understand what we're missing. Um I've said that throughout our budget opportunities when this discussion came up. I've said it before. Um, this for me was never an opportunity to decide tonight to vote on a different attorney.
Um, I want to make it clear every firm we've met tonight is professional, qualified, capable, and I am deeply thankful for all your time and sharing with me in this process.
My concern is not directly um with the firms in any way. My concern is uh why are we conducting this selection this selection at all um in this manner. So at no point prior to the meeting was our current attorney told that the
performance was inadequate. In fact they agreed to the revised fee of $125,000 that we negotiated. Even though in my view the value they bring in terms of institutional history and continue it with the village far exceeds that
amount. their knowledge of our charter, our cases, our policies and our challenges is an asset that cannot be um replicated at least tonight. What concerns me more is that tonight as a commission we may effectively replace
them without ever giving him them witness Brad the opportunity to understand why um to respond to any concerns or to propose certain adjustments. we have not explained to them um if there is a problem to fix
what is it I don't find that transparent in any way I don't find that accountable in any way and that is not how we should treat a long-standing professional partner at the village after tonight I actually have a list of things I will be
asking the attorney to look into ways in which we can improve our working relationship for me this has been a learning experience and that's again why I want to say thank you to every firm that um had the opportunity to to present tonight. But Brad, what would be coming forward after tonight is an
improved way of process and you know on how we can improve you know from zero like you said is like turning the page learning everything I've heard. Um, if the true purpose of the process was to identify the most capable legal firm for long-term service, not simply
the least expensive or the most administratively convenient, then the correct approach would have been uh RFP, openly issued, openly scored, and openly justified. And I understand that because it's a a professional service, we don't
have to do that. But that would have required a open conversation and not based on time. Uh I'm sorry, not based on uh money because that's what we did. We said who can apply for 125 grand and that's how it was handpicked specifically on that constraint. Why not
15, right? Why not 110? I don't know. Um, instead we're here to not evaluate a hand selected group of firms without clear publicly discussed criteria. And this does not give me confidence that we're making the decision for the right reasons. I'm deeply concerned that that
narrative driving this conversation was not a public um item and that the motivations behind the scenes are influencing a major governance decision without that full transparency. For me, the role of the attorney is too important to be reshaped in any way. Um,
under the charter, the village attorney is meant to serve the legal interests of the village. Uh, and not, you know, fit on anybody's agenda, whatever that might be. And I think that's the conversation I take away from everything tonight. Um, given that there was no documented
performance issues, the current firm agreed to the free structure, they bring years of institutional history and continuity. they were never given an explanation or an opportunity to respond except for tonight the voting time and that the public was not even being aware
of those issues uh coming out. I cannot to sustain replacing and firm tonight. Um our respect for residents for the transparency that we uphold. I will be voting to return uh to retain the current firm. Um I see no compelling or
transparent publicly justified reason to make the change tonight. And my last point is um if generally the uh commission wants to explore alternatives, the only appropriate path for me in my perspective would be a fully public RFP process so we can find
the best and not simply the cheapest or the most convenient legal partner. So again, I don't had and that's why I voted no. I just don't have two in my list. I wasn't intended tonight to provide a vote and make a decision to change her legal affirms given everything I said.
>> Oh, you makes sense. >> The vote is to keep the president attorney. >> Correct. >> Okay. So, one Okay. >> And have further conversations moving forward of their services if we wish to. >> Commissioner, are you okay me putting down a one for for Weissman and no two? >> No two. >> That's fine.
>> We're going to go down the other side. >> Mix it up. First off, I want to say thank you to all the firms and uh attorneys that are here tonight. Thank you for your presentations. Uh I'm going to keep this short and simple. Uh for me, uh Mr. Hearn is my number one and uh Mr. Gessi is my number two. I really
appreciate your uh your firm and all the things you you come to the table with as well as your ability to understand our local government and your experience. For me, experience has weighed very highly. So, that's why I'm number one and number two. That's it. Thank you.
>> Okay. First, I want to thank all everybody that's here that's representative and I appreciate Mr. Weissman saying that he's willing to go forward working with me, but I tried in the past to have the conversation after the commission meeting when the mayor
wanted you to work together with me. I approached you at this uh thing and tried to make peace with you. Uh so I'm going to leave it at that because I I I don't want to criticize that. I appreciate the fact that you want to work together going forward, but
I think the reason that you're doing it is because your job is on the line and that's a concern that I have. So, my two picks right now is Mr. Hearn because he has w he has worked with this uh I served with him as a commissioner. So, I just want to let that know. I think I was Yeah, I was on the commission and he
knows this village very well. And my second choice is Mr. the Gustello's. Uh and another reason that I like that firm is they showed up. I'm sorry. They showed up at this commission meeting two times in a row and stayed for the whole commission meeting. So, I think that
they have a lot of, you know, um, caring. All the firms that are here are qualified, but then my two choices are Mr. Hearn and Mr. and I apologize if I'm pronouncing the name Ryan Herring as I and Mr. Gastello. I always get you mixed
up on Mr. Hearn, so I apologize. So, that's Mr. Herren and Mr. Gust's minds. >> Sorry. Uh John and who else? >> Um Castic. I always Sorry, pronounced the name wrong. Sorry. >> Okay. Um All right. Great. Thanks. Um
so, um I've spoken with every candidate. I've been very clear. Um and I've been very transparent since day one that I see no no reason to replace Brad and his firm. Um I kind of mentioned it a little kind of glibly that I don't know how we got to this point. Um because I just I I
don't really see I I see legal service is a product. It's it's a work product. And when the work product is good and you don't have any complaints about the work product, sorry, Linda, I look around you. When you don't have any complaints about the work product, you know, I don't really see when the work product that's being delivered is
reliable, it's professional, uh and it's something that that we can depend on. I I don't really see a reason when all all you know everyone is kind of talking at the same financial level um that there's a value to me in in a relationship that we have and there's a value in a work
product that I know and that I trust. Um so I've just been I've been very clear with everyone very respectfully because I think everyone here could do a great job and I very much appreciate you spending the time with us. Um but I just I saw no reason to replace Brad's firm. Um, and I don't think there's been any
anything in my discussions or anything that I've heard here tonight that really changes my mind on that. Um, however, I do see that there's >> a bit of an impass, which is funny because I don't know that we've ever been in this position, uh, where we're looking at
>> five opinions and they're all a little different. Um, you know, so I wouldn't >> Oh, sorry. two for one. >> Two two for one. >> Got two votes.
>> John got two, right? >> So between Well, um Raul's firm also got two votes. Well, you got three votes. >> No, you got two. >> Yeah, they got three votes. Sorry. >> This is high math up here. >> Yeah. Okay. >> No, not number one votes. You're right.
As number one votes, you're right. There was two for John and and and two for Brad. So, all right. I guess it's not that not quite as far off maybe as we thought. So, um I'm not limiting mine to one. You know,
I've a lot I probably would have had Mr. Geller's firm as my number two, but it doesn't sound like he's made the top two for anybody else. Um and I'm ranking these is hard everybody because this is not saying one person is better than the other because I think everyone here is very capable. Um so, this is not a
comfortable position to be in. So, um, please don't take it as such. So, I would probably put Brad and then my second would have been my second would have been Joe and I don't think there's any others there. But, um, I guess we're we're talking right now if we're talking about ones, we're talking between Brad's
firm and and John's firm. So, >> wrong has they have >> Rel's firm has three votes. Yeah, they do have they do have three votes. So, >> they do. Yeah. >> So, >> to go by number system, then the one
that got three votes are basically >> No. Right. Because we're putting them in one and two positions. So, we have two votes for two of our candidates in the one position. Sorry. >> You picked what?
Who? >> Yes, you did. Yes, you did. >> You're good at this, Commissioner. Add up the points. Let's say if you have if you have number two has how many points you want to have and how many number one how much >> it just comes down to who's ready to vote for Gessie's firm. I'm I I by
identifying number one as Mr. Hearn's firm is ready to make a motion for that and vote. There's not three votes for that. There uh there is two votes for Mr. Hearn. There are two votes for Mr. Weissman and there is one vote for Mr. Gastessi. If someone makes a motion for that who identifies the number one then
we have to vote. But right now I have indicated that I would vote for if we if Ryan I can bear. Yeah. >> If I have indicated that I would vote for Mr. Hearn. You have as well as for a guests and you two who have voted for Mr. uh say you would vote for Mr. Weissman. >> Yeah. >> Right now if I made a motion it would be
for Mr. Hearn. I obviously understand. I'm only going to get one other vote. >> Yeah. I will get Okay, I know what you're saying. Okay. The way Let me see if I understand this. Okay. So you would nom nominate Hearn and I would second it because I have him as my number one pick. Then you would take a vote and see
if he got three votes. Correct. >> This is part of the discussion. Somebody's going to have to move. >> So the understanding here is that it's basically a tie and between two firms. So um
>> I don't think I've ever been in this position before. We've been close. We've been very close. >> That's And if I'll be honest with you, if it's going to between the two firms, I'm not ready to make that decision tonight. >> Okay. Go, Andrew. Go ahead. >> Mr. Mayor, there there's two ways of of doing this. One is if if the commission
wants to recess and decide at a later time they could do that. Or two, a member of the commission can make a motion for whichever firm they would like. It would need to be seconded. It's then opened up for discussion. And then there would be additional discussion about the hiring or not hiring of that particular firm. And then you call the
vote after that. Um, that's one way of doing it to so-called land the plane on what firm. So then if that motion fails for lack of a second or or it's a 23, another person can make a motion uh for the firm that they want additional
discuss. I said there need to be a second there'd be additional discussion and then call the vote after that. So that's that's the way of moving forward unless you want to continue it to a later time to uh for further consideration and discussion. I can switch my vote too, can't I?
>> Yeah, >> I'd like to make a motion to um have the opportunity to discuss this at another time. So, basically, I appreciated what you said. I think uh because there's two on the table, one is our attorney, but
then there is a second firm which already got two votes. I think I would like the opportunity to further discuss what services would look like for this second I very much know Brad and everything we've heard today um to have
made my decision just for you but I didn't put a second vote out and I think if I were to go with Mr. Castessi um I would want to have that conversation as after everything I've learned today which is a lot of how
different firms operate uh you know and what that means basic basically improving everything we've heard from the current firm and you know the proposal I think that will give me the opportunity to have that discussion
of of what we're what we're giving up if we remain with the firm we have what we're gaining um considering everything we've heard. Again, I just don't feel and I wasn't in the rush to make the decision tonight. So, that would be my
my proposal that we allowed for this to sink in and the conversation to happen. >> Commissioner, was that a motion? Is there any second for the motion? No one wishes to continue the discussion
to a later date. Okay. Okay. Uh, Art, you were what were you saying? >> Yeah, I'd like to make my mot I'd like to change my motion uh and change my vote from um Cast Casti to Hearn >> for your for your one position. >> Yes.
>> Okay. >> Then I'll make a motion to select uh Mr. Hearn as the next village attorney for the village of Biscan Park. >> Wait, one one we still got the one and two positions though, >> right? >> That's okay. Here's the question. This is the only because if I understand
Okay, here's my problem. How many points would you say? Cuz Okay. Mr. Hearn got two two first place votes, right? >> No, has three. >> No, no, I'm just saying >> has three now. >> I'm trying. And Mr. Gusti Gastilei got one first place vote and
two second place votes. So if you look at the points, how many let's say >> Commissioner Gonzalez, who would your second place be now that you reranked your >> Yes. >> 30. >> Okay. So we're we're three commissioners are in uh agreement that our number ones
are are Mr. Hearn and our number two is Mr. Gestessie. >> That's correct. >> So I will make a motion to select Mr. Hearn as our next village attorney with a backup of Mr. Gustessie if something that doesn't go on for negotiations. >> Okay. Is there a second for the motion?
>> Second the motion. >> Okay. Um all in favor >> I >> No. Is not out of disrespect to to anyone. Um I'm going to vote no um just because I didn't see a reason to move on, but um I understand and I'm happy to move in in the direction of the commission. So
that's uh that's a 3 to2. Motion carries as um having the discussions to bring in uh John Hearn as our uh the first position so to speak uh with the second position being um Real's firm. Does that sound right to everyone?
>> So what's the process then? Uh Mr. Manager. >> Sorry. >> Oh no. Mayor, if everybody agrees, I'm going to uh meet with our our attorney that's pitch pitch hitting for us this evening. >> Sure.
>> And sit down and and and negotiate the agreement with John Herren. >> Okay. >> As a village attorney and and speak with you about uh all of you individually about what would you like to see in that agreement. So
>> So can I bring up one other point too? Um, our current firm has a termination period. Yes, >> I think it's 60 days if if I remember correctly. >> So, how do we for Yeah. How do we foresee the the transition working? >> I mean, we don't have an agreement with
with John's firm until they sign the agreement. I understand that. But doesn't this effectively kind of trigger that termination that 60-day termination period? >> So, so if if that's what if if um if Mr. Harren uh firm was selected as
the next village attorney if and and right now I I was just brought on very very recently. >> Sorry, I'm putting you on the spot. >> No, no, it's okay. So, I I haven't yet had a chance to review Neighbor Giblin and Nickerson's engagement agreement, but if there's a 60-day termination period, there would also need to be a
motion to terminate that agreement uh consistent with the termination provisions of that contract. >> Sure. and that way we could start that process and at which case uh it would be up for um during that transition period
for Mr. Weissman and Mr. Harren to work together for the transfer files and everything else that may be required. >> So I think the next time we're all going to be together is when we're going to be talking about the terms of of the potential contract. And I think I I
don't know how this would work from Brad from your perspective if at that time there would be a vote then to trigger the termination notice um at our next meeting which is about what three and a half weeks away would that be that that would be I mean you've already selected
to uh uh Mr. Heron and his firm to begin the conversations with them. Yeah. >> So, if that once that materializes, his contract would be up for vote. At the same time, that if there's a 60-day uh termination, which >> right, >> I'm going to review that. What'll end up
happening is at that meeting, it'll take effect 60 days after approval. >> Okay. >> So, really, we got to get together at our next meeting to talk about whether we have an agreement on terms and whether we give the notice under the current contract in order to start the transition. Correct. So, we don't have to do that this evening. If if that's
the will of the commission, you can if you want if you want uh that the to do the transition within 60 days, but I think that's more prudent. >> Well, god forbid something happens with the discussions >> because you do have you do have a second to back up in case something >> that's a good point.
>> Probably best most prudent thing to do. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> I I've right now and while we were waiting had conversations with Mr. Weissman and potentially if I were to replace him and I certainly am committed
to working with him and his law firm for an orderly transition during whatever time period you all feel is appropriate and and I I'm committed to doing that um in a cooperative manner for as long as it takes and you know for Mr. Weissman
to be, you know, on board uh under, you know, engagement with the the the village until such time as that process is completed or if you decide to and I'm not in any way, shape or forms, whatever you all want. >> I I I understand. I think the prudent
thing would probably for be for us to get together on our next meeting, understand that we have an agreement, and then kind of go from there. I don't know that any further action right now is is necessary or reasonable. So, does that all sound correct for everybody? >> Yes.
>> Okay. Uh, well, Mr. Manager, if there's nothing else, if we're if we're ready, um, I want to thank everybody again for being with us this evening, um, and spending the time. And at this time, I'll ask for a motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> To adjourn. >> And second. >> Second. >> All in favor? I. I.
>> Thanks, everybody. >> Thank you, everybody. Yes.