I will call tonight's meeting to order. The school building committee March 11th. Um, and we do have members u virtual tonight. So, we will um be doing motions by roll call. Um, and we do a um
introductions. Tara Larkin. >> Oh, Mike Buckley. >> Mayor Bolo. >> I had to remember who I was. >> Terry got black. >> Jennifer Wang. Milville. Vivian Verbedian Collier's um project leaders. >> I'm Greg Smallley with DRA Architects.
Jim Barrett, DRA Architects. >> Jane Reio, school committee and Millville resident. >> Scott, director of facilities. >> Jackie Dio, um secretary Jill Pilgalerani, interim superintendent, Kristen Donado, director of finance and
operations. >> Jeff Silverstein, um Blackstone Finance Committee. and our remote members. >> I see Rachel, >> Rachel Anderson, Milville Selectment, >> I'm sorry, I can't see who else is on.
>> Ryan, no. Melville Cable, Sarah Peters. >> Is that too loud? Was that fine? >> It's fine. >> Sarah Peters, CPAC chair, Blackstone. >> Great. and then
>> looks like the rest of the team. >> Yeah. So, Christina Mulligan from Collier's project leaders and I'll pass it over to Trisha. >> Trisha Puzzy DR. >> Ryan Coplin DRA. >> All right, I think that's everyone.
Great. Okay. Um, looking for a motion to approve the minutes from the February 11th meeting. >> So, move Motion by Jeff. >> Is there a second? >> I got Mary.
>> All right. And um any discussion? All right. None. We will um look for approval. Tara, yes. Mike, >> yes. >> Mary, >> yes. >> Harry, yes. Jen, >> yes. >> James, yes. >> Scott,
>> yes. >> Um Phil, >> yes. Kristen, >> yes. Jeff, >> yes. >> Rachel, >> yes. >> Sarah, >> yes. >> And I'm also Yes. Motion passes to approve our minutes.
>> Okay. I will turn it over to Vivian or >> Christina. Christina, sorry. >> Yep. No worries. She's going to take the first half and I'll do uh the second half. >> And we have a packet. So everything on the presentation is in your folder if
you want to follow along for anything. Well, great. Good evening, everybody. This is the uh list of new monthly invoices. There's two invoices from the RA.
One February invoice and the second invoice for the month. And then the third invoice is monthly profit year invoice. that totals 31,694.
>> All right, we'll be looking for a motion to approve these invoices. >> Jeff Motion by Terry. Is there a second? >> Second by Mary. >> Any discussion?
Hearing none, I'll look for a motion by roll call. Mike. >> Hi. >> Mary, >> yes. >> Harry, >> yes. >> Jen, >> yes. >> Jane, >> yes. >> Scott, >> yes. >> Jill, >> yes. >> Kristen, >> yes. >> Jeff, >> yes. >> Rachel, >> yes. >> Sarah,
>> yes. >> I'm also Yes. Motion passes. >> Well, great. With that said, this is our typical budget summary page here. just showing where we um called the country's new balance to spend.
So wanted to share a big congratulations. As you guys all know, on the February 25th MS board meeting, they approved um our PSR submission and now we're moving forward to module 4
schematic design. So that's a huge uh sorry Christina that's a huge milestone. So it's very exciting and wanted to just kind of give you guys a round of applause for all the hard work you've done all the meetings
and as well as the DRRA team to help us get here to where we are. So congratulations everyone. >> Thank you. the MSBA that means we're >> sorry >> officially pushed into modular
systematic design um and we'll tell you all about sort of next steps um so there's three big milestones inatic design one being the medical commission itself
two in June and then there was the board meeting in August and then we have the project scope and budget agreement with the MSBA in all and then just to see that sort of in a
timeline format we're going to be developing this time drawing and there'll be a cost estimate review sometime in May and then in June we'll be finalizing the
schematic design package itself. This commission as I said in June uh 25th and then there is board meeting in August after the MBA review and then sometime in the fall
the district will review their rate and finalize all of that for the final scope and budget for your project. Any questions in terms of the overall schedule for schematic design? >> Will we actually see um like the develop
the the when the schematics and the design are at a point that will be presented to us before it goes off? >> Yes, absolutely. Not in full detail. You'll have access to the full documentation. Okay. But in presentation form, we'll kind of give you the
highlights and the um a little bit of like the table of contents, what to expect to be inclusive of it. >> But you will have access to the full document. >> Okay. >> It's just difficult to present such a large >> You don't like PowerPoint that much?
>> I do like PowerPoint, but I don't like a 700page PowerPoint. >> Yeah, even I'd fall asleep after. Thank you. >> All right. If there's no more questions, we'll move on to the project.
>> Yep. >> So, Vivian, before just wanted to say kind of recapping conversation had last time, there is an item for if you're comfortable to vote, we'll be looking for a vote tonight.
If not, by the next meeting, we will be back. Take it away. >> Thank you. I we just figured it's easier for me to do this in person versus virtually. Um hearing that last time, you know, we presented the information.
This is a hefty portion of information to digest. So, I appreciate everyone wanting to kind of take a step back, absorb it, and come back with it. So, tonight, if you guys are comfortable with voting, fantastic. But don't feel
like you're obligated to vote tonight. We will look for next month's meeting though. however, to take an official vote on which direction to proceed with. So that way we can also convey that information to the cost estimators as they're doing the schematic design
package cost estimation. >> Is there a way the estimators could um tell us the difference between if we go 149 or 149A? >> That is a question that we're going to answer here tonight because we did do that for the PSR submission.
>> Mhm. And um we'd like to kind of have a selected option delivery method for the schematic as we're getting further along in the process and fine-tuning not only what the project's going to look like, what the actual costs are going to be as
we prepare with the MSBA for the what is affectionately known as the 301 form or your um you know the financial portion of it. So I've found 149A typically the
bids come in a little higher. >> Well, we do h um if you give me a moment to like recap, we do have a slide specifically for that, Mary. So just to kind of recap, last time we reviewed two delivery methods. One is the DBB or
design bid build. The other is the construction manager at risk or CMR. They are both utilized and there's depending on the district and what they deem as pros and cons to both. Many high
school and regional uh high school projects have used both DBB and CMR. So, it really depends on the district's preference and the school building committee's diff um preference on how to proceed. Next.
So to give a quick recap of it is that for the design bid build or DBB also known as chapter 149 in uh Massachusetts law chapter 149. The design documents
are 100% complete before we advertise to go out and solicit bids from the contractor. The contractor selection is a two-part qualification process very similar in both processes. So with a
chapter 149 design bid build, you have to first request qualifications from all the subcontract from all the subcontractors as well as the contractors wanting to pursue and bid this project based off of the
qualifications. Then you invite them to bid for this project. Once they have been deemed as qualified, those are the only firms that can submit a price, a fixed price or a lumpsum
price as it's known for design bid build. And then you award based off of the lowest price, understanding that the lowest responsive and responsible bidder. And the responsive and responsible portion of it, we already
take care of by doing a pre-qualification process. So, if they're already deemed pre-qualified through the pre-qualification process to move forward to provide a bid, then they are a responsible qualified bidder. And
um by being responsive is that they're submitting a price for the project. And at that point, the lowest bid wins. There's no interview process. There's no other conversations other than you were
the lowest responsive, responsible um contractor and we award to you. >> So even can I ask I think we talked about this the last time, but I just wanted to get clarification. >> Absolutely. When it says on step two, qualified biders, that means there's a set of criteria that they have to meet.
>> Yes. >> Which does or does not include the fact that based on their history, based on what we know about them, we don't deem them qualified. That doesn't count or it does count. >> It does. We will put everything and anything in the first pass to see who
would qualify. they would have to have certain number of similar projects, you know, certain uh qualifications for financial of the firm themselves. There are so many different components you can put in to narrow the pool a little bit
so that way you're getting the best qualified from the lowest price bidder. >> But somebody submitting knows those qualifications beforehand. >> It's part of the RFQ process. Yes. First, they have to meet all of those
criterias in order to be considered qualified. And once we've deemed them to be qualified, then they are allowed to submit a price. >> Is is this process one that you're likely to get multiple people or is this like our bus contract where we'll get
one? >> No. Uh we'll show you in the upcoming slides. We've uh taken a pass at all of the contractors. We have had various contractors uh reaching out to us and um expressing interest in the project. They
are definitely watching. So there is definite interest among it. You will get more than one. You definitely will get three if not more. >> Okay. So very similar. Um it's a very
straightforward. The general contractor is selected based on the lowest price since they are already marked as submitting as qualified and the general contractor at to some degree assumes the
risk and all of the costs and profit from the job. On the flip side, the CRM or CM at risk, it's also affectionately known as Massachusetts uh law chapter 149A.
That one still has a two-step process. The first step being for qualifications, we would seek uh we would advertise a RFP or an RFQ asking them to submit their qualifications. The second step
instead of asking them to submit a price because we would be inviting them in at an earlier phase in the project we would be seeking their proposals during the design development versus after design development construction documents 100%
completion and then so they would be bring brought in earlier. we would base their qualifications and um based awarding them off of their proposal. This is one that you would be allowed to
interview the top three firms and you're more or less selecting the firm you feel meets the best criteria, the team that you feel strongest would be um the right firm to represent this project and this
district. the inter uh you interview the shortlisted form uh firms. You focus more on their technical approach of the firm. You focus more on their staffing, their fees for their services. So, their general conditions and versus their
actual what they're going to think is going to be the cost of the project because they're being brought on earlier on in the process. They're going to help develop what the cost estimate is. >> So, Vivian, follow-up question on this one. >> Yeah, absolutely. And again, we may have talked about it, but I think it's
important point to review. So, we had talked before they would come on before the project was even approved at the towns. Correct. >> No, that's that they would come on at this at this for this project. They would come on right after the approval.
>> Okay. So, if we went through all of this, if this was the direction we went, >> um, they would not get involved any comming, no nothing until after this project. Correct. the vote. >> The vote, I'm sorry. Yes. Yes. Okay. After the vote.
>> Okay. After the district has approved the project to move forward, after we've garnered all of the MSBA approvals, the district funding approvals, all of it, our first course of action, if chosen the CMR method, would be to fill out the
application process submitted to the attorney general's office asking kind of like a signoff permission that yes, this district and this project is pursuing CM at risk. So Vivian, you said that what
they think the cost would be. >> So their cost could go up. >> It's not etched in stone. They could start the project and then say, "Oh, we need more money from you." >> No, it's not. It's their general conditions is all you're basing their proposal. It's kind of like their
services. uh similar to our services. They'll give you kind of like, hey, for pre-construction, for all of the design development, this is what we think our cost will be. This has nothing to do with what they believe is the cost of
the project. Similarly, in design development, as the architectural firm is developing the drawings, we would send it out to cost estimators to make sure, are we still in line with the amount of money we went to the town for approval? and if not how do we scale the
project back to get it back in line they would be uh doing that alongside the architectural team with the DRRA team. So in lie of for example currently how we have it DRRA has their own cost estimator we have our own cost estimator
we do a gut check between the two we do a reconciliation ours would go away and instead it would be replaced by the CM firm that you would hire. So would there be a credit for that? >> I'm sorry. >> Would there be a credit for the estimate that you wouldn't be doing? The
contractor would be doing. >> We wouldn't include it as part of our fee going forward. >> Okay. >> Cuz our fee, our contract at the moment ends once you reach your um it was only for feasibility and schematic phase. At
the second phase of the project, if it is to move forward, we would give you our fee and how we're going to staff the job and our approach to how we would manage it. We just wouldn't include cost estimating. So, you're not double paying for it in any way.
>> But if we go to DVB >> Mhm. >> and they submit their bid, they're held to that price. >> They are held to that price. However, in any project, any design, it can never be 100%.
>> So, I don't want to give the impression that there won't be change orders brought forward because of coordination uh issues in the drawings or owner requested changes to be made. But we account for all of that when
we're trying to establish the project budget, the overall project budget. We definitely include a hard cost which is the construction contingency as well as a soft cost which is the owner contingency for changes that might be
brought up in the future. >> So when the towns vote when towns people goes to town meeting when they vote they are voting not on the actual design. I mean, just
the scheme of what it still could potentially be. >> Yes. >> And a potential cost. >> Um, >> well, I would I would caution that. I would think you'd have to be kind of tied into >> one with that. And the other thing is is that but there are a lot of moving parts
to that, >> right? Sure. >> So, the important thing is is that, you know, the towns are going to just pay the offset from the grant, >> right? >> The grant's going to take the first place. So Blackstone and Milville are not going to be on the hook to raise and
appropriate $150 million for example. >> Sure. Right. >> So, but I think what we would have to have >> is a pretty tight number. >> Right. But based off of a schematic design, not based off of building documents. >> Correct. Construction document. You're
absolutely correct. you are going to the district and to each individual town to approve the project and fund it based off of schematic design level cost estimation. But with that, we do have several years and several projects of
experience and the MSBA as well as our partner in developing the total project budget. So we are we do ask the DRRA team to go back to all of their consultants give us pricing from their consultants and their themselves as well
as a level of effort needed to take the project from design development construction documents construction administration as well as closeout. And inclusive of that is all of their, you know, um, all of their consultants for
furniture, for technology, their electrical engineers, like the whole gamut. Included for us is our level of effort for um, to have a construction representative on site full-time as
required by MSBA. We will also include any and everything for what we think for furniture, fixtures and equipment as well as technology. There is several line items within the overall total project budget that the MSBA has
outlined that you have to have identified and associated costs with from legal to swing space to moving to you know miscellaneous to geotechnical geo environmental and inclusive of that
is contingency line. Is there ever a time that you don't meet? Do you know? So you say it was hundred whatever million and we only spent 80 million. So here you go Blackstone Milville. Here's some money back. >> Yes, there has. >> Not if you do the DBB, they get the
profit. >> If they get they get the profit for just the construction line, >> not necessarily for all of the other lines. The building you're sitting in came in under about a half a million dollars under >> which took a act of the legislature to
transfer that from the building project to the high school and then we did technology in the high school with the balance that was about 2003. We definitely were very careful in coming up with the total project budget
because we understand how crucial it is and that this is your one and only >> bite at the apple to not only go to the town but nobody wants to go back >> right >> to a vote to garner more money or funding for the project.
But one thing I do want to make clear whether you decide to go design bid build or CM at risk the filed sub biders are the same. This is where it differs from the public and the private sector.
So in the private sector, the CMR process that you hire a construction manager at risk, you technically also buy their kind of like their book of business as well as their book of subconultants, subcontractors that they
have relationship with and they work really well with. In the public projects, that is not the case. In both cases, you have to go out for qualified filed sub bidders. And those are the trades listed are the big ticket
ones. The electrical, plumbing, HVAC, fire protection, roofing and flashing, masonry, waterproofing, damproofing, any of the miscellaneous metals like your stairway uh staircases, acoustical
tile, tile itself in the bathrooms and elsewhere. resilient flooring and painting. So, regardless of which option you choose, the filed sub biders will always be the same.
Okay. In hearing some of the questions you guys had last time, we took our we took a pass at trying to create a sidebyside comparison table that you know role during the design phase in some of the
questions you guys had raised. The role during the design phase if we decide to choose design bid build the contractor is not involved. They do not come on during the design. It's only in the CMR process that the construction manager
would come on during design and help with some of the coordination as well as understanding the project and giving pricing. What is each delivery method best for? Typically
the design build bid build process is for straightforward projects uncomplicated site or logistics or conditions. You typically bring on a CMR when you feel that there is some level
of complexity as far as phasing the project needing early contractor input. Maybe you're worried about, you know, early release packages because some of the HVAC systems might be longer lead items and take longer.
Contract type for DBB. It is a it's a fixed price. What you open on bid day is what they're planning to what their expectation is for the cost of the project. with the CMR the it's a guaranteed
maximum price and that is usually developed right before construction design development for a DBB it is the design is fully vetted before the contractor ever even sees the drawings
is asked to bid it and provide a price whereas on the CMR it's a little bit more flexible because they will be starting before construction. They will be joining the team and they will have more input into the full design um of
the project. >> Can you explain the guaranteed maximum price and how that aligns with when we vote for the money? >> You would already have voted for the uh >> so they'll come in in the budget >> after during the design development phase. So once you've already in the
fall we go to vote you've secured the funding for the project in essence because it's been approved by the district by both towns and then it triggers the towns to kind of start appropriating the money towards the project. So that way the fees associated
with design development from DRRA and their subconsultants as well as um our fees and any other consultants are already starting to tack on from that approved money. >> So the guaranteed maximum price will come in on our budget. >> Yes.
>> But I think that would be the district's responsibility, not each town. Basically each town would basically get a >> correct >> bill. Correct. >> Okay. So if we bond or whatever. >> Correct. >> Mhm. So the guaranteed maximum price would come on right before construction
starts. So they would be, you know, because the design is still developing. It's not it's not completely done yet. Um budget management under DBB the owners
have full control. it's a lumpsum bid and after the design is completed whereas in the CMR owner is in partnership with the construction management where that's where you're developing the guaranteed maximum price
and establishing during the design phase competitive advantages was another question that we heard DBB has both of which you still need to be you know under DBB you still need to be pre-qualified ified in order to even
submit a price. And in the CMR selection, you would qualify them and then interview them and select them based off of their proposal. And for phasing, construction phasing for the DBB, it's typically suitable for
projects with minimum phasing, let's say one or two, you know, tear down, build, or in this case, it would be build new then tear down, right? for CMR they um most districts not to
say that it's the only reason but most district select a CMR to accommodate greater complexities that they feel there might be overlapping construction schedules or certain phasing requirements that you need if it was a
if this project a good example would be if this project was going to be an addition renovation and it's an occupied site during that time that's a level of complexity that I would more steer the committee into selecting a CMR firm over
a design bid build. >> And Greg, I think Greg mentioned the last time too when we were talking about this that when we talk about phasing for a new construction, phase one is you build. Phase two is you take down, right? Okay. Which we are doing.
Correct. Okay. Just wanted to because I know you mentioned that the last time. I just wanted to bring that up again. This would be a two-phase project. We would build the new, move the students in, tear down the existing high school, and do the landscape and all of the
hardscapes. >> Yeah. I just wanted people to understand cuz we talk about phasing, but where we're just videoing these now. Yeah. >> What a phase would consist of. >> Exactly. Thank you for that. >> I'm I'm going to allow Jerry. >> Just a question if I may. Um,
>> both methods would have a contingency budget, right? >> Yes. Okay. Would there be any difference in the percentage of that as a total of the project? Would one like a DBV have a different contingency budget as a percentage? Then would be a CMR as a different contingency as a budget as a
percentage. >> Typically, if this was a addition renovation, I would say yes. But since it's a new build, it's a new groundup construction, I don't really see there being too big of a delta in what we
would carry for separate contingency. >> Which one would have the larger contingency budget typically on you said there's differences, but >> this is a new Yeah, this is a new build. I wouldn't have a difference in the contingency. >> So there's no difference in the
contingency about whether you use a DBB or whether you use a CMR. No. >> Fair. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Sure. >> Next slide. Trying to be mindful of the time. I want to give enough time for the DRRA team to present all of their fun
stuff, too. So, um, with it, we heard you guys mentioning different contractors, different firms that typically would show interest for the design bid build contractors. These are not an all-inclusive list, but the ones
that we have seen the most recently uh is great builders, CTA Construction to some degree Commodore Builders, Fontaine Builders, and WTri Company. And the reason why the last three have
asterisks behind them is because they tend to go both. They will bid a project whether it's design bid build or CM at risk. Whereas the Coniglies, the SuffK, the Gildane, the Turner typically only
bid projects that are CM at risk. So for that reason, >> beneficial to them, >> I'm sorry. >> Is that more beneficial to them? >> It's more beneficial to them because it aligns more with what they are used to in practices. the hard bid lumpsum
kind of I'll say atmosphere is very different than the CM at risk atmosphere. So they don't necessar some like break builder has mastered the lumpsum they never go after CM at risk they've
they know their lane and they kind of stick to it similarly is CTA Fontaine on the other hand depends on the project if they like the project they want to pursue it regardless of the delivery method they will >> because I do know some of these bigger
companies don't like to do an estimate and then not get it >> correct. It is a level of effort that they're putting out there that is, you know, it takes time, it takes money, it takes resources. So, it's more of a business decision on their end, but
these are the ones that we've typically seen. Next slide. And I kind of took a little bit deeper dive into the MSBA projects as well as some of the more recent
regional high schools, larger high schools that have been uh coming online in the last maybe like five, six years. For example, Waltham High School, Lexington High School, Arlington High School, you know, some of like the some
larger ones, Diamond Tech. And what I noticed in it, again, this is not an all-inclusive list, but what I noticed was that if the project size was between 250 to $350 million for a high school,
the main players were Scansa, Conigley, SuffK, Gilbane, Turner, and Shamit. If the project range was coming in around 150 to 250 million for a high school, the main players were WT Rich,
Fontaine, Lee, Kennedy, Breakbuilders, Bond Building, CTA, and Commodore. And if it was a vocational technical school since that has a different level of complexity um those projects
>> the main contractors were Consigi Scansa Fontaine Turner and uh CTA as well. >> Most of these the difference in the prices though wouldn't that be their their um capacity to bid? >> Yes, their bonding capacity.
Absolutely. Next. >> So clearly in the 150 to 250, which is potentially our range. >> Yes. >> It's it is a little bit of everybody. Some who do both, some who do DBBS, some who do like it's everybody. >> Correct. >> Well, that doesn't help. No,
>> I know it doesn't help you in making it doesn't make your decision- making any easier, but at least you will know that regardless of which >> approach you choose, you will get the coverage you need from the contracting market.
There's definite interest in this project. Next slide please. So at the PSR level, I think this is Mary where you were kind of looking for at the PSR submission. What uh the question we heard was what
was the overall cost difference between going one delivery method over the other? And this is for the total project. It's not just construction. for your total project um under design bid build based off of the PSR submission
and the cost estimating it was 100 a little over 189 million whereas as a construction manager at risk it was a little over 199 million what we carried this isn't the exact it doesn't cover
the exact dollars that the cost estimators gave for construction we definitely took an average between the two they were very close. It was maybe like 2% if that delta between them. So we took the average between them to make
sure that you were covered on both sides as well as make uh we took we included as part of the PSR submission the construction manager at risk amount not knowing which direction you would be choosing to go after making sure that
you had the coverage you needed. So, if you were to go construction manager at risk, understand that it's already inclusive of it of what we submitted for the submission package. So, it's a little over a $10 million increase.
Okay. >> Sometimes you look at these numbers and only one off, you don't think it's 10 a little over 10 million. >> Yes. >> I I I've seen it as high as 10% difference. Y this is >> this is good >> if that's how it comes in. >> Yeah.
>> Right. >> So I'll pause here. I want to make sure, like I said early on, you don't have to take a vote tonight if you're not comfortable, but we will be looking for next month's meeting to give us direction on which delivery
method you would like to pursue and happy to answer any other questions. And we we decide that now so we get the processes started like the >> the people will >> next month the timing of it it's right
be the school building committee meeting is right before the DRA team will be submitting the package to the cost estimators and we would like to be able to get as much detail of the cost and by selecting the
delivery method would help them kind of understand which direction they're going. >> So if we're not decide if we're not going to bring them on board until after the vote >> Mhm. >> I don't understand why the estimator couldn't say it's this percentage. >> You regardless, you have to select a
delivery method before you go seeking approval per the MSBA. You have to that's part of the agreement. So in the schematic phase, you're making the selection. >> Could I ask I just wanted to ask Greg and Jim. So it I'm I'm reading this
right. I know they become part of the team, but it looks like they're in this in the CMR they become a a a partner in the work the design team work. So I would like to hear from your perspective and I think you talked about this a
little bit more but what would be the need or I guess the the reason why as a design or as a design team >> Mhm. of if the benefit of bringing on this with the kind of project we have just because again they're going to be
involved with you a lot. I just kind of wanted to hear your perspective as the design team. Well, I think from the the point of view of CMR versus design build on a more complex project,
it would take some of the pressure off of Kristen and Scott and you and Jill on the day-to-day running of the site >> and the day-to-day management or month-to-month management in Kristen's case of of money coming in and going out
and paperwork needs to be filed. is you could characterize it as kind of one-stop shopping. You get a site superintendent >> that if something's not going right, Jill or Scott can pick up the phone and go, "Okay, you guys own everything on that side of the fence. >> It needs to be addressed.
>> Your trucks have to come in through here, take care of it." And a design bid build, it's a little bit more cat hurting or can be depending on who you get. You can get some of these design bid build contractors will run it just like the
CMS will. They will own the site. They will own their part of the site and they will they will bend to whatever you need to run the school. >> Um get a bad design bad you know a general contractor and it will be a bit more of a battle.
>> But with that we are still involved as your OPM. we would have a site representative as well as still project management to take that burden off of you and onto us. So I don't want to give the impression that it would be you guys
would call us and we would heard the kettle and the cats and everything in between >> because just when I look at this and I'm seeing that one of the differences that I asked about a multifased or a singlephase I'm just wondering how could
they help if it's really just bills. >> Yeah, we don't necessarily see the advantage offsetting the potential cost. It just doesn't >> The only piece Yeah. The only piece complex we see in this so far is the
sanitary sewer. >> Okay. >> Which has to be kept running >> while the new building's built and just happens to be right where the new building's going to be. >> Building small problem. >> Yeah. And and we designed it right over it just for the challenge. Yeah. Um, but
and the other part is if we have to replace the water line, but with the current arrangement, we can replace the water line while the school keeps running on the water line that it's on. So, it's I don't I don't see it. It's this $10 million difference is based on what 159 million in construction cost.
>> Yeah. >> So, you're talking 8% difference, 9% difference. That's tough to justify. 10 million bucks on an overall project. That's essentially your your furniture and technology budgets that that you're um you could do.
>> Um arguably you'll get a um you'll get a slightly different fee from us and cyers for design because we we expect to be more involved in in a uh in a GC budget GC buildout. Um but as as Vivian said, we don't disappear no matter who it is.
It's just a matter of what what level of control can be offered and and given. Um, we've had success with both of them and I think the project lends itself more more to a GC approach. Um, and and part
of that, Jill, is that you really can't bring the CM on until after you vote on the thing. And so, they're going to be coming in, >> the ship hasn't quite sailed, but it's pretty darn close to it >> by that point. And so this idea of um material selection, those type of
things, we'll have been down that road pretty far already, >> right? >> And so you know what you have with Collars is a vast portfolio as you have with us of work in Massachusetts. So we're we're constantly talking to the teams running other projects in
Massachusetts like what's getting good bids, what materials are people familiar with, what's working, what's not working, and and we're designing right to that that sweet spot right now. And as a district team, we are absolutely up for the challenge of helping to herd the cats. >> We're okay with that.
>> But you're not I mean, we're not expecting the district to do it. Like as Greg mentioned, like you know, we will regardless of which delivery method you have, we will have a site representative on site every day. Regardless of which delivery method you have, we will still
be doing all of the reviews of the PCOS alongside with the DRRA team, the potential change orders, change orders, bringing them to, you know, you as well as if you select to do a small group to review change orders to them as a
working group before bringing it to the committee at large. and the level of effort the involvement level doesn't change where it might shift a little is that I'm uh as a result for both of our firms we might if you choose design bid
build we might have to add a little bit more time in our schedule and in our budget to make sure that we're reviewing it a lot more carefully we're reviewing it in depthly bring you know extra steps here and there but other than that the
cost is in arere increased cost isn't going to be equivalent to the 10 million in any way, shape, or form. >> Thank you. >> So, the MSBA would be on board with that $10 million difference. >> It's whatever you choose because the
district ultimately is responsible for it and it's the district's selection and choice. >> MSBA wouldn't be on board if we took that 10 million and use it for like a fieldhouse, a garage. >> Nope. >> No, cuz it's not 10 million anyway. It's only 58% or whatever of 10 million.
>> This is if you chose to go CM at risk and that is the cost of the project that means that is the cost of the project. Any savings from that similarly to how you guys had it for the middle school
goes back to the district. You guys at that point through legislation, towns, you know, decide how you want to split it, use it. But everything inclusive of this project is
in that total project budget and agreement with the MSBA and it is documented and there's a line item specifically identified for where the money is going to be spent towards. If there's overruns in one line, you can
move it to the contingency line to help offset some I don't know, you guys maybe choose to do an more landscaping >> that wasn't originally planned, but it's for the project, not necessarily a
separate project elsewhere in town. >> Yes. So um I'm hearing from this discussion that there is unonymity between DRRA and Collars as to the approach that they would recommend that
we take here. Design bid build. Is that correct? >> I think from from DRRA that that's the recommendation we would give you from the project. I won't I won't dane to speak for for Vivian and and Collier's.
How uh tight will that um qualification be? >> Like I I I just have dreams of um >> you know getting a >> it's it's within >> getting a bogey there somewhere and then not being able to you know >> No, it it's within reason,
>> right? >> You can't write something that will eliminate all except the person you really want to have do it. >> Well, this is true. Yeah. >> But you can >> tailor it. >> You can you can tailor it. the the the the nuance is in tailoring it in such a
way that it doesn't disqualify people. >> And >> yeah, I I'm not I'm not interested in disqualifying anyone. I just want to make sure that the person that or the outfit that is has the blessing is truly an up, you know, all our obligations and it's not
one that that we oh we didn't think about that or whatever like that. You know, there there's nowhere in this process where where we will share your concerns more than on this >> because we live with it. >> You need my phone phone number. >> Yeah. No, we we live with it and it lives with us
>> daily >> and and and beyond daily because it lives with us in all the references and all the listings at the state afterwards. How well did the project go? >> If the contractor is a complete buffoon, I can guarantee that two years from now
it will be Dr's fault. uh uh when it comes down to >> what about is that same same thing extend to the to the subs? >> Subs are a little bit harder to control, >> right? >> Because of the way Massachusetts works,
>> because of the filed sub process. And the part of it that none of us on this side of the table can control is the right of the general contractors to elect not to work with people and the right of the subcontractors to elect not
to work with GC's. >> Right? >> So it becomes a it's a um I can't call it archaic because it hasn't been around long enough. It's bizarre is probably a fair way to to characterize it. It's it's just it's a strange system, but it
it does limit to a certain degree um the the amount of control you have when it gets to >> the filed subcontractors. By law, they're protected from what they do. >> So, I'll give a little bit of an example
or in hopes to help clarify. I might over complicate it. Who knows? But for a design bid build, we would definitely put in all of the criteria as reasonably as possible to make sure that the qualification you are receiving are good
qualified contractors. >> Now, when it if they're let's I'm going to give an example if Christina you wouldn't mind going to the list of the contractors. Um yeah, right there. So for under DBB, you've got about five. We
let's say we qualify four out of the five and your maybe personal favorite is number three out of that four. There's no guarantee that they will be
the ones selected because if they didn't come in with selecting the right subcontract, you know, subfiled sub biders and giving their price, >> you'd have to select the lowest bidder because they would be qualified. So
they're responsible and they're responsive because they're giving you all the information and making of course there's a checklist to make sure have they given these forms, this form, that form to make sure they're still within qualification. >> There isn't a way to select who exactly
you're going to get. But under the CMR process, if let's say you had your heart set on, I'm going to pick one of them. you had your heart set on bond building construction to do this project. You know, there is you still have to go
through the process. You still have to qualify. You still have to short list. You have to interview and maybe Fontaine surprises you and now they're the ones selected. You get a choice. You choose them versus
them choosing you is kind of like the most basic of way to describe it. In the design bid build, they choose you by their lowest price. In the CMR, you select them based off of their qualifications, their team, and their approach.
>> So, I've worked with all but one of those. >> Mhm. >> In the DBB. >> Yeah. And um at least one of those wouldn't be able to bid it because of the single single project limit. >> Yep. >> So
I'm comfortable with the list. >> Yeah. They're all reputable contractors. It's not like they're startup companies. >> And all of them? >> No. No. There could be one that comes in, right? There could be. they wouldn't qualify if they are a startup because our qualification process would um
minimum required of three similar projects. >> You know, we would already put that in to weed those out. >> And the newer contracts, they build up. >> Yeah. >> So, when they first >> do a public project, they might be able to bid 50 million. >> Couple years later, it's, you know,
>> 75. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, we put our protections into those pre-qualifications. >> Correct. Is there a difference on um the after responsibility? So you like how long say they come in, you're in the building and
you get the first snowfall and something you find there's a major floor or they use the wrong cocking or like is that within that contract? Is there MSBA? like how long are they on the hook for? >> There is a warranty period and in the
spec we in during you know as the spec is being developed as alongside the design we could put in how long the warranty period >> and that goes for both of those >> both. >> Okay. >> So there's no difference in how long someone's based upon >> the project. Okay.
>> No, can we >> the Terzo in the hallway there is I think on its third pore. >> Yeah. No, >> but that follows right the first two. So >> I mean in fairness, regardless of which option you choose, there is going to come a point where the contractor is
going to say it is no longer a construction project. It is no longer our responsibility. If you've taken possession of the building, use of it, and now it's wear and tear. It falls under warranty item and not necessarily a construction issue. And part of the
role of the on-site representative is to be checking the product. >> We also do have third party estimate uh third party testing agencies that we include as part of that overall project budget as I mentioned all of those lines. One of them is for testing,
commissioning, all of everything and anything allincclusive. >> I was I just taught in a building that was brand new and you know I had water flood my classroom. We had paint peeling because it was put up at the wrong time and you know there's a lot of who's
really truly responsible for that and those little things could be you know little by little becomes a lot. So >> it does >> and just need to know kind of who's where how how does how do we handle that going forward and if there was a difference so I appreciate that >> happens every building. This building we
had drywall screws through the plumbing and you know when we show up a couple months after um we've had the driveway >> in Brookfield had complete flooding on a brand new building. Yeah. Yeah, >> Vivian. Yes, >> I didn't get a response regarding Kier's
is is Kier's position to endorse the design bid build approach. >> Honestly, it's it's a little bit like I for this project. It there isn't that huge level of complexity that I would say no, you have to go CMR on this one.
It's a little bit of preference. I don't have a like I have worked with every single one of the DBB some are better than others but we have adjusted accordingly on how our
approaches and has had and we've had great success me personally as well as a firm with all of them including the CMR contractors as I mentioned in my own town we did two projects very close in
timeline We selected one to go DBB and the other to go CMR. It was just more of a preference in the level of involvement that you wanted with the um you know with the builder themselves.
I don't have I don't feel like this project is very complex that it would require a CMR, but if you were to choose a CMR, I wouldn't say why did you choose that? like it's more of a preference. >> Okay.
>> Uh just one question I I would like to address to the administration. So obviously if we go the um DBB uh route, you know, we kind of eliminate that pro project manager, whatever you're calling it. So >> that's more that's potentially more
>> necessarily you don't what I guess you don't eliminate a project manager. Well, well, what I'm saying is that but >> construction manager >> CMR had a different approach, right? >> Well, they have to still give you a superintendent that will be on site.
They will still both have to provide you with project managers and executive leadership like >> and CMR and the both. All right. cuz I'm just wondering about just the just the uh level of uh you know responsibilities
and so forth and you know we we tend to be a fairly limited operation here. >> We don't have a lot of um you know assistance and and so forth. So I'm just wondering about that is that you know is that the right do we should we expose that to uh this conversation like is
>> but we take that on for you as your owner's project manager. We're the ones that in addition to regardless of which delivery method you select, we will always still have a construction manager representative on site full-time making
sure that the either either delivery method, whichever firm you select, is adhering to the specs, the quality, and we're watching the windows being tested and documenting it. you know, we're
doing our daily reports on how many um how much staff participation they have, what what was the you know, kind of like the daily reports always include the weather condition, what was the site condition, how many um how many laborers
and workers did they have on the site or where how much did they cover and what inspections happened? All of that you would get regardless of which delivery method you chose. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Would anyone like to make a motion to
move forward tonight or >> so moved? I would like to uh to um vote to or um uh make a motion that we uh uh endorse the design bid build approach to this project. >> Second.
>> Second by Jane. Any discussions that questions that I could answer? Get it all out. All right. I will do roll call for a motion to approve um moving forward with
a design build. Design bid build um >> delivery method. >> Delivery message. >> Uh Mike, >> yes. >> Mary, >> yep. Terry, >> yes. Jen, >> yes. >> Jane, >> yes. >> Scott, >> yes. >> Jill, >> yes. >> Kristen, >> yes. >> Jeff, >> yes.
>> Chuck, >> yes. >> Tara, yes. >> Rachel, >> yes. Sarah. >> Yes. >> All right. All in favor. All right. Thank you everybody. That's another great milestone you guys just
accomplished. I know it took us a little bit, but great job. I'll turn it over now to the DRRA team to walk us through some of the design.
Okay, we got a bunch of stuff to go. Um what we want to do is to um start to get an idea on materials for the exterior of the building. No looking ahead. >> Oh, sorry. I've been way looking
>> I know. I know. I was watching you, too. Okay. Now, what we're what we're going to show you is um this is kind of the first run through on materials that fit into our budget and have been used in successfully in Massachusetts on a number of schools both um contemporary
or going back just a few years. So, they are things that we've been budgeting from. There's one building in here that's in Rhode Island that's a little bit older, but shows you a slightly different use of materials. Um this is not intended to show you the design of the building. It's not going to change
the building as we're putting it together. It's going to start to get a feel for how this building will present to the public when you pull up to it in terms of materials. Um, we don't even really need to talk colors today. We just need to start talking materials so that we can start to incorporate them
into our design as we go along. So, what we did here, and Christina, if you jump ahead in one, um, we gave you those nine buildings, I think it is, or seven buildings at the beginning. We're going to come back to them so that if there's one that you want to vote off the island at the end, we can stop talking about
that building. So, this is Wakona out in Dalton. It was completed in 2021 and it is um predominantly masonry, glass, and some metal panel. So, that view you see up there is the the main
front entrance. Um, next slide takes us around. Slightly different view. This is from out the parking lot, more the pedestrian approach to it. Uh, next slide. This is what we would consider for our
building here to be the east side. So towards the residential side on Florence away from the public view of the building. And then the next slide would be the um the wing looking west. So, as you came up through the building, this be more what you might expect to
see if you went with this type of material and and massing and how it comes together. So, that is um Wona out in Dalton. Next, >> what's that? >> How many square feet? >> Roughly is going to be about the same as us. >> Yeah, it's about the same size. Yeah.
Yeah. The next one is um Cape Cod Tech. This is substantially bigger than your building and it u we put it in here for one. It's um completed in 2020. It also shows a threetory um side which our classroom wing is
three stories. Um this is more metal panel and um and glass um much less masonry in this. Uh, next slide is think about this as uh comparable to the um outdoor dining area outside of the
cafeteria that we're talking about doing with some materials on the um on the ground to look at and also the um kind of basket weave in the metal panel on the vertical pieces is something that can be achieved with um with the panel.
Um you also need to tell us if there's things in here that you don't really want. you need to be saying, you know, and you don't need to do it as we talk. You just do it at the end going yes, no, yes, no. Um the next slide, this is um between two other portions of the building. This would be thinking about
the um outdoor amphitheater area where we're we'll be bringing some um growies and natural feel in between two arms of the building. That's what was done here on Cape Cod Tech. And you see um deliberately the metal panel the um Oh,
you're one ahead of me, Christina. The um the metal panel off to the uh left on the slide. Did I miss one? Yeah, I did. I'm sorry. I did. Yep. Okay. So, this is the outdoor amphitheater. I had the right
words, just the wrong picture. Um so, this is the outdoor amphitheater. Now, we can go to the next one. Um this is the Growies. And this I mostly put this one in here to show you the metal panels are are pretty durable. >> Is that on the left? Those are metal. >> Yeah, that I think the left on this one
is actually pre-cast concrete. >> Okay. >> And so it it reads differently than the block and brick below it. And it's a pre-cast concrete which is really durable. Um it also can accelerate construction times because it's fabricated offsite in a in a um factory
and then brought in. >> So it's architectural concrete. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And then >> metal panels above. >> That was actually um that picture there is um >> split face block down below and pre-cast panel up above, I think.
>> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Our next one, this was um this is going back a ways. This is um completed in 2014. So, this is actually kind of um you could almost call this dated
designwise. Massachusetts kind of moved on from from this um this look, but it's still it's a pretty attractive building all things considered. This is predominantly metal panel on the outside. >> Really? >> Yeah. The um the brown and the gray in all of this is metal panel.
>> Um when you get down low, it's a split a split face block, which um which works real well durability wise. It doesn't work if you're in a district that has a lot of tagging. It's really hard to clean graffiti off of. But if you don't have that issue as a problem, it's a um
it's a pretty durable material. Cleans up well and hides dirt. Uh next slide is um this is around just a closer up on the metal panel. You can see what you can do with that with the brown color on the metal panel. It reads
like brick, but it's actually a um >> metal panel in front of a raincreen wall and the gray panel down below. Metal panel owned by the carpenters. >> Is what >> is that owned by the carpenters or the masons? >> Oh, you know what? Who said that? Carpenters. Okay,
>> that's what I thought. So that's cheaper than the masonry. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And it's not a filed sub bidder, >> right? And it's not file sub. >> File sub lifespan of brick versus the panels, the metal panels. >> What was that? >> Uh how long do the panels are should they last?
I I think I forget what they carry for a guarantee, but it's it's probably out past 20 years for fade. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to think of um >> Yeah. I'm trying to think the last time we did one >> 2004 with Sturbage, right? Those are still good. Shrewsbury. >> I did three of their schools within
early 20 early. >> I see a lot of it. >> Yeah. Luca Bomb Sherwood Middle School is all Luca Bomb. >> You don't really hear any issues with them if anything. sometimes just the clips that they are, but those are they're individual panels, so you can easily replace
>> the one. >> They can be pretty sharp looking. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And they come in a variety of different colors. >> Metal, too. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Fine. >> You'll never know it's You will not know it's metal.
>> It comes in all different colors. Yep. All different colors. >> Okay. No, no, no. They can be made to look like wood, copper, anything. >> You're not you're not selling you're not selling train. >> You're not, but keep moving up. >> All right, I got to take you on a car
ride then. >> There she is. There you go. Okay, so this is um back of the building at uh Essex. And this is uh you see the um uh reduction in the quality or the cost of the materials when you go around the
back of the building. This would be comparable to what you would project towards Florence Street. >> Um, >> the white metal piece. >> Yeah, that's a that's a vertical uh panel >> system in there. And it's um the the
um I don't know the exact travel on this project, but I have a feeling that someone needed some money out of it and the back of the building suffered. >> Um >> it was a it was a cost savings measure. That's what I said. >> Make sure the project stayed within
budget. I wouldn't be opposed to doing it here as well if needed. >> So, and and the the idea here is to start getting everybody conversant with those materials. So, if we get to the point where we have to say, okay, how do
we get to a budget? It's not a learning curve for everybody. We can refer back to something and say, okay, here's what we would suggest in order to make that work. Um, my objective is to never get into what we call value engineering because I think that's a false term. I think we should be designing to fit a
budget as the budget evolves and not have to backtrack and take something out. We should be making >> value engineering is an oxymoron. Don't forget >> it's not if I do one thing before I retire. Well, I won't do two things, but the one is I want value engineering to
never be used as a phrase again. >> I'm concerned with the step ladder up on the roof there. Can you explain that? >> No, not my building. Uh the the last picture in this is just from the um from the
front of the school and shows you the cover over the entryway and the um the piece sticking up to attract some attention to it. Next one. Um Minute Man. This is 2019. Um, this one has once again the panels
up top a lot more split face block down low and that large overhang over the front with the glass. Um, bit more squarish blockish was probably pretty cost effective to build. Overall, it's a pretty >> Was orange on sale one year or something.
>> It's Yeah, it's >> in the old McDonald's inside. >> Oh, in the old Minute Man. You know, I I I that's a good question. I do think it's still there. I think so. Um because did they have a deal with them for um was one of the career
>> Yeah, it was crazy. So, >> I'm pretty sure it's still there. I haven't been in that building. >> First time I went in there and I saw it like >> it is Lexington, so they're known to do things a little differently. >> If you jump forward, Christina, you'll see >> Lexington. Oh, there we go. Here's the
uh front entrance way. This is the the monumental sign out where you're crossing from the parking lot. >> Jane, it's not orange. >> And up to the um >> That's the only thing not orange. >> The next page I jump ahead. >> Okay, go right ahead. Trying to keep up
with Jane. Um so this is uh lot of lot of orange metal panel and big expansive glass. Think about this as your um your outside dining area. This one is closer to me in where I live and it's actually very stunning. It's very beautifully
done. It is not orange. It's more of like a a tannanish. >> It really doesn't photograph well. The photographs don't do it justice for what it is. >> Must have been sunset. >> But that's all metal. >> Yes. >> Okay. You're wing me a little bit. Well, the the advantage with the metal is if
it is as as uh Vivian was explaining, it's much easier to dismantle the wall if you have a problem with something and because the the brick masonry, whatnot, once you put it up, it's really it's there. If you get water in behind it for whatever reason, it is a bear to fix.
>> Um, next slide is um just around the corner from the big overhang in the front. And this was as it was um just being finished up. So hence the step ladder and the man lift there. Scott, before you answer the question. >> Well, I thought it was to do the windows on the other side.
>> It's actually Scott, you missed it. There's an image of you with on that going up so that you could clean the windows. >> I see that. >> We're going to need to get you one of those in the building. >> Yeah. Cleaning the windows. Yeah. Okay.
Pucket Regional, West Les Newberry. Next slide. So, this actually gets kind of the feel of the footprint for um for your building except reversed a little bit. >> Yeah. >> And um aerial into the main entry, drop off area, classroom wing to the right, and um um
>> large volume spaces to the left. >> Um next slide. Um this is contrasting materials. It's brick to the right of this and metal vertical to the left and then glass as the uh crossing piece
right there. Um just a it's a decent mix of materials. Gives you some feel for uh for what you can do with those. Um our next one >> not seen any solar panels. >> Nope. These are all these are all before
>> um changes that brought solar panel into reach. And so there I don't think there's a there's any on these buildings. We've looked at them aerial wise. I don't think there's any. Um you're seeing more of that in the buildings that are getting built now. >> Mhm. >> And the roofs have to be solar panel
ready. Yeah. >> Right. Right. >> So that they qualify and meet the lead requirements. >> And so our last one here is Pucket from the um from the front. This is presenting to the public side, mostly wood masonry and the um metal up high.
And what do we have? One more on Pucket, which is just the uh ballards, the student drop off, parent drop off area, and access into the front of the building. Go to Sus and Jane's favorite material
on feature here with metal panel. And this is just showing what you can do with metal panel that is not just flat panel. >> There's kind of an arc to it. Gives a little bit of shadow line going. Looks a little bit more futuristic looking. Um, >> screams SMMA. >> What's that?
>> Screams SMMA. >> Yeah, >> it does. >> Yeah. Um, next slide shows a a long wall. Gives you a little bit more feel that what you can do with the metal panel. Um, that clock here could become a lesson for all the kids who know know
how to tell a clock with hands on it time. Um, daylight saving slime on that. >> Uh, we turn the um turn the slide there is um backside further into the building with the brick being introduced there
now >> and some metal panel coming down low so you can see it. And then next one, this is a um this is a dormatory building down at URI. Um doing this mostly for material and
this is a combination of metal panel and and masonry with some uh different sun shading approaches and a different massing more vertical a little bit more open at the end of the hallways. Um, next slide. >> Where did they put the shipping pallets?
>> Yeah. >> And then the, uh, walkway into it. Um, pedestrian pathway in walking along the masonry side of the building. And from a little bit further up, give an idea of what it might look like with the glass
as the connecting corridors and um into the stair towers. Final back with real estate. the sloped um site going down similar to the amphitheater piece and then go far a
field. And I know Jill Fus has made me promise that we would go look at these next two buildings. So um this is out in uh in Washington. This is a um brick and metal building. So, brick down low and the end cap of the wall and then the
metal up higher and um fading through to the back. Next one. >> Orange brick. >> Little more orange brick. More metal panel. Um looking at just picking off um higher areas. The second floor up trying
to give a little bit of of a emphasis for the metal and call that out. The next one is kind of the back side of the building reduced in the windows and bringing the um the look of the metal panel down into the brick.
And uh last one is the student side of the building classroom wing off to your right with the sun shades up above the windows. And then finally, our last one, the South Lake Tahoe. I volunteered to go on this trip, too. >> We'll gladly go on that one.
>> Yeah. So, this one is introducing um >> a structural timber into um into the design and pulling that outside and giving us a slightly different look to the uh way the building is put together.
>> And it's um can be done in New England. It takes >> actually been done for UMass Building Authority. I believe it is um in on Amhurst's campus there's the design center. Yeah, they have a gorgeous building. It doesn't have as much wood
outside. That's that's the difference is the wood outside. >> They UMass has a gorgeous heavy timber >> manufactured timber building. Um >> is that more money? >> Oh, yeah. >> Depends on how you use it and what you do with it. We're we're talking about it
in some places on on this right now, >> but we're also um we're using it on what? >> Metro South. So, uh, in Stoton, uh, an elementary school where we use it at a main entrance. It ties into a,
>> uh, learning commons and then up into, uh, another area in the building, administration. >> So, we've been kicking around here using it in the, um, the dining area >> and then down along the main office to the main entrance. >> Give it a little bit warmer feel.
So, a couple more pictures of um South Lake Tahoe and just different views. This this building really hides its scale quite well between the window sizing and the size of the structural members which are well oversized for what they're doing. They're they're
really done to >> Is that a garage for Scott down below? >> What's that? >> Is that a garage for Scott down below? >> Yeah. And so, you get to the last slide is just the um the nine buildings. And if there's something that really doesn't work for someone, and you don't need to
be voting tonight, you can just keep it ahead of you. But if there's something that you said, "Yeah, that'd be kind of nice. Let's see what we can do with it." We can start to work from that way. If there's um some stuff like the metal panel or the orange buildings that you really just don't want, just say so.
>> I like the mixing materials >> to make it reasonably affordable and >> still have some of the warmth. >> Mhm. I mean, for me, I'm looking at like the maintenance of it. Like, what what is the maintenance and what is the long-termness? Like, so we currently
have a couple buildings like Milville and I know the high school JFK, you know, they're brick structures and we know that the the Burke is breaking down and it does this and it does that and the repair isn't it, you know, it's a patch on the outside, you know, where with panels, it sounds like you can
remove, fix, replace, and and keep it structurally sound. Am I wrong in that? >> No, you're right in that the big problem you have with the brick buildings before the way they are built now is they're just they're built with the wall was built and the brick was more or less attached to it. >> Mhm.
>> And so any moisture gets behind it just destroys the brick. >> Right >> now when you do a brick building, there's a air cavity, there's a rain wall, all the water that gets behind it comes down to the bottom and goes out. So you're seeing much more durable um you you're seeing much better longevity in brick walls now. They just
cost more to build than they did back when the high school was built. >> Right. Okay. >> And so the the outer wall skin construction has really gotten to be more uniform and the cladding is the cost differential. >> Okay.
>> So the everything behind the pretty picture or the ugly orange panels is almost essentially the same >> and so what you do on the skin is different where you introduce wood. I did um two buildings down in Grten, Connecticut in ' 05, I think, where we
pulled the wood framing out into the open like that. And I just I visited those last year and they're actually surprisingly doing quite well for 21 years down near the ocean, okay, >> for the amount of wood that's out there. Um it's really a matter of specifying it for outdoor exposure,
>> right? >> And and maintaining it, but they clean them with a power washer the way they would clean anything else. And for some of these, they have large areas of glass, and I'm assuming that the glass will be um safety proof, bulletproof, >> especially for common areas. I mean, if
we have a cafeteria with a big window like we do now, are we making sure that those are, you know, >> tempered and safety? >> They'll be they'll be they will be tempered. They will be laminated. >> Bulletproof is a misnomer.
>> Well, I know it will go. It will shatter, but it won't fall. That's well that's laminated. The what what you get to is what's commonly called referred to a school guard which is a that is a proprietary name. That's a product. >> But there what it's doing is meant to
deform deform a projectile not just a bullet and get it to either drop or misdirect. But either way to take a lot of speed out of it. You can go all the way up but you're going to to essentially something that you won't shoot through. you just can't afford it,
>> right, >> at the end of the day. >> And so when we talk safety, we're talking more about how do you get the school to work as a homogeneous community? How do you get people to feel part of it and take care of one another? And the building design should really be
in the background. You can do things. You'll see on a lot of these buildings, you'll start to see ground level glass leaning outwards because that deflects a bullet. You can't shoot straight through a bevel through a leaning piece of glass. it just doesn't work. So, there's design cues that you wouldn't pick up on
unless you did this all the time that will make that safer. >> And you reduce hiding spots, no big bushes near the building. >> It's a lot of it's in the landscaping, right? >> And it's the it's this piece of it that finally got our landscape architects to listen to us and the facilities director of no small bushes, no small this, no
more because Scott Cruz was just going to run it over with a lawn mower eventually. But anything that grows low to the ground or high enough that you can hide behind is a no no. And working with with Joe, the SRO, um he's very much on board with what we call um uh
SEPTED is community protection through educ through environmental design. So it starts from when you pull onto the site. >> Um who can see you, where can you see, how do you get into the building, how do you and we want to be able to see somebody from when they get out of their car. And that's so we kind of joke like
the rock has to go away because the rock is one of those pieces that could contribute to that. Um but when it gets down to um classroom design, the schoolguard glass sounds great until you realize how much it costs to replace cuz every time your guy with a weed whacker
picked up a rock, it breaks >> and it's incredibly expensive to replace. >> So you want to be real careful where you put it >> and how you use it. You don't need it on the second floor, >> right? >> Yeah. And you barely need it. You barely need it at the ground floor levels. Um
because up until the shooting out in Connecticut in Colorado, there had been no documented shooting of someone shooting from outside, right? >> The the mind of someone in that piece is that they want to see who they hurt. >> And as bizarre as bizarre as it sounds to start talking about school security,
that's what it gets into is the psychology of someone who's willing to go do that. And it's Jim's tired of me quoting this, but the chance of you being bullied in school is about 1 in8. And the chance of you being seeing a gun in school is about 1 in and 1.8 million.
>> So design to the one in eight. >> Mhm. >> And think about the one in 18 1.8 and do what you can within reason to get to it. But you can make it work. Depends on which guidelines you follow. >> One one quick comment on that because I've done some serious public safeties
with SWAT teams in them. The SWAT vehicles all have to be inside because the sun deteriorates the bulletproof on the glass. >> It does. >> And the last public safety building I did, they thought they were all good because they had a brick exterior. Well, brick is only a level four, so we had to add Kevlar on the inside.
>> So, it is more about education and and v visual. >> Yeah. But in a public safety building, it's far more necessary because of the clientele you're bringing inside the premises as well. you get >> the safety of our schools has has been
on our radar for quite some time constant. Yes, we are constantly looking at that within our building, outside of our building. >> Um, and we know with some of our buildings being a little older, we have to take extra look and extra caution, extra care. It's it, you know, hopefully
with this new building, it's going to have some of those things that are already, >> you know, part. It was one of the big pushes to not continue to work with the existing building is the open >> the open pathway into the courtyard. Y
>> from both the east side and the west side. >> As nice as that is, it's really difficult to deal with from a security point of view. >> Yeah. Security management. But also with that, this building will include technology and cameras on the premises. >> Yeah. which >> as well
>> which as we know not not to um not to to not to downplay it that's to figure out who did it as not to stop it from happening >> right >> and so there there are two different two different discussions when we get to security and one one is how do you keep
something from happening and the other one is how do you recover from it >> and recover from it al means how do I get the building back up and functioning again as quickly as I can and the other one is how do I go trace down whatever whoever did whatever happened. >> So those will be really fun nights when
we have those discussions. So >> um but that's a little bit out in the future for this point. >> Um so that that's about where we are. The design is moving along. We have a meeting tomorrow >> for um then we're going to talk auditorium. We we've got in terms of uh
budget control and designing to the right budget that all starts back at scoping. And so we've started from a couple months ago talking to the end users asking them this is now the wish stage what would you want and then getting a concept working around that
getting uh an understanding of what might be done to bring it down to budget-wise and still stay within making it functional. Um the auditorium is one of those areas. The library was another. Um science rooms were another. Um,
overall we're looking to be able to I'll say cost justify what the decisions you're making. And the auditorium is a big driver because you have um every high school, every community has a different culture within their high
school and yours is much much focused on the marching band and some athletics and not so much on theater and orchestra. And so your questions are as you grow, how much of that comes into play and how much do you plan for in the future. So that'll be tomorrow's um main focus of
tomorrow. On the the building or the document side, we're going through all the little ups and downs that MSBA requires and and we want to do like room data sheets. It's a single piece of paper that tells you everything that's in a particular room. Um and so it
guides the design. And it helps everyone to understand just taking it back to buildings for dummies. It's like you look at the sheet that's what's in it and with those are floor plans for the rooms and um two dimensional elevations like if I'm looking at that wall here's what's in that room that get developed
for all four rooms in each room um around the building. Uh kitchen's pretty well set up. The auditorium footprint got a little bit smaller. We almost got the loading docks to work. We'll be talking about those tomorrow. and um starting to try to shrink the building
down. The engineers are trying to make the building bigger. They they want more room for their equipment. We want less room in the footprint. So, it's the give and take. I think that's it. All right. That's it for the design update. We can move on to the community
engagement group update. Just some of the active efforts been doing the past month. >> I know Jackie in particular job. >> Christina, can I just I'm finding it really hard to hear with the he said
it's you can't fix it. >> Yeah. >> So, Christina, not that I don't want to hear you, but I'm having a hard time hearing you. You're echoing and you're a little bit softer than usual. >> Oh, never mind. >> Yeah, just have her. >> Go ahead, Christina. Can you just speak
>> talk again? Can you hear me? >> Yes. Continue. Read a bullet, please. >> Okay. So, efforts since the last SBC meeting, I was going to say Jackie in particular
has been done doing amazing, right? And there's still >> Yeah, I I think it's No, I think it's too hard to hear you because you said Jackie was amazing and she didn't hear it loud enough. So, >> yeah, she needs that. She needs that
information. I know that. >> I think we want to make sure that's very clear in the notes. Yeah, >> absolutely. You were amazing. Um so I'll kind of Christina if you don't mind I'll um take this slide for
um as you guys may maybe you don't know some of you we did have a community outreach two Wednesdays ago >> and I hear I apologize I wasn't there in
person but I hear that it was a little bit better attended than the first and the goal goal isn't to, you know, we'll continue to do these. We'll continue to educate the community in hopes of garnering more and more um people to
attend and get the messaging out. But for new efforts since the last SBC, we continued to make updates to the website. So, that was fantastic. >> We Yes, Jackie, thank you for all of your efforts. It's been amazing ongoing
efforts that we're still, you know, continuously doing in order to make sure that the communication is out there, is present as well as available for those interested is monthly news uh newspaper posts in
the Blackstone and Lightener. And I believe today Christina gave you a little bit more of an update for the upcoming one. There has been a lot more social media outreach, Facebook page updates and blasting a little bit more
uh for those. The weekly superintendent newsletter also includes a lot of the same updates that are presented in the Blackstone Enlightener. Um we also do have a projectformational flyer uh that
>> recently updated >> just recently updated. Thank you for that one. So that gives uh highlevel bullet points of what's going on, where it uh where the project is, what process, as well as the QR code linking them back to the website and being able
to obtain as much or as little information as they'd like to. And um for March, we're hoping to have the flyers already updated. We'll get printed and in hopes of making a distribution for the empty bowl dinner
fundraiser. >> It's there tonight. >> That's tonight. >> It's there tonight. Excellent. >> Uh tomorrow night, the Mr. BM BMR show sounds kind of interesting to attend. on
3:28 there's the Boy Scouts pancake breakfast potential um that the flyer will be distributed at that event as well and we're already spoke within the community engagement group in having a upcoming probably most likely towards
the end of March going to >> actually probably be April for both of those >> you reach out to them perfect thank you for that >> so our intent is to go out to the senior centers and make a presentation to both Blackstone Senior Center as well as
Milville Senior Center. We don't necessarily have a cost to present to them, but we want to definitely have them included as part of the conversation and present to them where we are in the process, where we are in the stage, and what to look forward to
in the coming months. We're also hoping for April on 428 to have theformational flyers and we'll see how much more we can provide for the NHCS
new member ceremony. So trying to hit all of the major events in both towns having a flyer with updated information. Is there any is there any justification or any interest of the actually putting
someone there with the with the flyer? >> There is because I mean you know >> I see the flyer. Yeah. >> No, you know there is >> to try to engage some of these people especially like >> tonight would have been a good one. Uh that's a pretty >> So for the senior center, we've asked to
like make a presentation at the do they have a special lunchon coming up or whatever and make a actually make a present not just have a flyer but make a presentation. >> Yeah. And as the as the months like now that it gets a little bit warmer, more
people come out >> and now is where it'll be more crucial as we're already progressing into the project to have somebody available especially if there is in town both towns farmers markets to kind of have
booths there availability for every member to kind of participate, take turns maybe an hour here and there to be a part of it and to not only have the flyers, maybe have a kind of like a bulletin as well, images.
>> I think a lot of it is like oneon-one. >> Yep. >> Okay. Because you got to build some >> Absolutely. >> U you know, some some tempest and so forth because it's, >> you know, some excitement around the project because, you know, just just a flyer or even a presentation. I know
those are difficult uh audiences too that probably wouldn't normally support an expenditure like this. But having said that, there are a lot of other activities that you know would would be appropriate. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Definitely, we
will look to lean on um this committee and members since you guys know the most about the project to participate and help um get people to come to the booth or the location, help answer questions
and give them a little bit more information. >> So, as far as the farmers markets, um >> I'm on Daniel's farm. We have the f far farmers markets. Having somebody there every week, I don't know how beneficial that will be because some weeks we just get people after church, >> right?
>> Yeah. >> But we have a sight fest in October that last year it was our biggest event in 30 years. >> I think depending on >> Yeah. Depending on the timing of it, we've look we're looking at all the different different events that are happening in town. Depending on the
timing of where it falls to the vote is where the biggest effort and emphasis. They have a website with all their planned events >> and just let me know you can have a table. >> Okay. >> Yeah, that'd be great. >> Memorial Day. Is that still on or is that going to be different this year with the
>> Memorial Day is just going to be a um a voluntary >> recognition? Yeah, >> I think there was one. Wasn't there another big event? >> That one we're already have it on the list with the community engagement group. Yes. to even do tours of the high
school >> of the high school. I'm thinking it's at the high school to even do tours of the high school to give people firsthand eyewitness of why this school needs uh to be replaced. >> And part of that strategy is we're having a cooling center inside.
>> Mhm. >> And the auditorium with the broken chairs is going to be showing a loop of elders of the town. So >> good. >> I love that comment of with the broken chairs. So Be careful as you lower yourself into a seat. >> Yeah, we talked about having tours.
>> There's light fixtures. >> Are we doing the tours on the dance dance night? >> I am looking into that. I think it's a great idea. I just want to be able to talk to the PTO as well. But if we're going to have ele there's an elementary dance coming up, so maybe to be able to offer some tours for, you know, smaller
groups. Yep. They're going to be at the high school. But where this is recorded now, if there's any, you know, people in the community who have upcoming events that we may not know about being in school, we'd love to know what those are, you know, to be able to get out there. >> There's an upcoming St. Patrick's Day dinner. I was just asking, I think it's
Knights of Columbus that's putting it on at um Divine Mercy Parish. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, even just to put some flyers out there might be. >> But beyond even a flyer, maybe one or two if there's committee members, you know, take an hour, stand there, pass out the flyer, but also be able to
answer questions >> this weekend. >> I think it's Saturday. >> Saturday night. >> Yeah. >> I think it's 25 bucks. >> Milville has one voting precinct, and they'll be voting obviously the same day as Blackstone. That might be the one and only community event you'll see in
Milville because we have nothing else. Um, >> but we have a lot of Milville like Divine Mercy now. >> Well, it's a combined church. >> Um, but it might be a place to um day of or especially during um you know the
afternoon. >> Can you have pictures at a voting place? >> Actual >> because it's not on the ballot. It shouldn't fall within the restrictions of how many feet away you have to be from the polling place because it's not
an actual vote if it was >> voting on it that day. >> If it was on the ballot, you'd be, you know, you'd be down at the post office. Um, but because it's not on the ballot and it's information, it should be there. I did Girl Scout cookies right in the lobby one year. So,
>> I think Vivian and I I'll check with the town. >> Okay, that would be great. >> Thanks, J. And you might even be able to use where they enter with the >> That's what I'm wondering. The seating. Yeah. >> And put a table. >> Yeah. Before even before you go into the voting hall, there's a small um like living room area.
>> So out of the elements cuz you never know what that will bring, >> right? But I think having someone present, >> handing out the flyers, getting attention. >> Absolutely. >> Mhm. And then the other one that came up recently is the high school has their
newspaper at the Pony Express and Mr. Juva said he would send us some questions that we can answer and then have someone write an article one of the students. >> And there was gets out to the kids and families in high school that way too. >> That include register to vote for the 18-year-old. >> Yeah, that's true. >> Mhm.
>> Well, >> and did we mention last meeting that the article that was in the newspaper as well or >> Valley Breeze? I don't remember if that was after this or not. We did get an article in Valley Breeze. Um, >> yes. >> And we'll probably reach out to them again maybe in a couple months or
something >> in a couple of months when we have a little bit more um updates not only to the design but where costs are coming in as well. >> Yeah. Non orange. So I mean since last >> from the last meeting to this meeting
the community engagement group has made a lot significant leaps and bounds in you know getting themselves organized as well as getting more of the information out. So good job you guys.
Thank you. public forum. Anyone? Anything else for tonight? You're >> good. All right. And um >> we will dub this the Jerry Fen moment of our meeting >> and future agendas.
>> You know, eventually you'll make your way up to the table. >> Fine will be Jerry. The last slide before we conclude tonight's meeting is an outline of the upcoming um SBC meetings and potential topics that we'll be covering at each of
those meetings. So, next month, April 8th, at 5:00 p.m., we'll be looking from the DRRA team to provide floor plan layouts, building systems, and operating costs conversation in May. Um hopefully
we'll have like the site layout and finalize the exterior materials. That's where you can, you know, kind of duke it out for the metal panels, whether they go horizontal, vertical, and what color. June, um by June, we should have already
the cost estimates returned, reconciled, and present to you guys um with the with the delivery method that you approved tonight. and we'll have two meetings in June. So, please do be prepared for that. The
second meeting is more of a quick meeting of voting on the SD submission. So, at that point, you'll also get a link to all of the documentation. You're more than welcome to review. Be
prepared. The SD submission is a lot more comprehensive of a package than the PSR. So, But um that's really all that we had for this evening. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. With that, we'll turn it over for adjournment. Thank you. Um is there a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved by Jen, second by Mike. All in favor? I will do roll call.
>> Yes. >> Mike, yes. Mary, yes. Carrie, >> yes. >> Jen, yes. >> Jane, yes. >> Scott, >> yes. >> Jill, yes. Kristen, >> yes. Steph, >> yes. >> Rachel, >> yes. >> Sarah, >> yes. >> T, um, Chuck, sorry.
>> And Tara, yes. All right. Thanks everyone. Thank you everyone. Have a great night. Congratulations. We're here.