Good evening. For the record, I want to welcome everybody to Josiah Quinsey School here in Chinatown. My name is City Councelor Ed Flynn
and I represent District 2, which includes Chinatown, the leather district, South Boston, and the South End. Bay Village, parts of Beacon Hill, parts of Back Bay.
This hearing is being recorded. It will be rebroadcast on Xfinity Channel 8 RCN channel 82 FiOS 964 at a later date. Interpretation will be available today
in both Cantonese and Mandarin. >> For those attending in person, interpretation headsets are are available to my left. Does anybody need any assistance with interpretation services right now?
So again, this meeting will be broadcast and translated in both Cantonese and Mandarin. And just want to see does anyone have any issues with language or communication interpretation that they
need assistance with? We are also joined by city councelor Aaron Murphy. Today's tonight's hearing is on docket 04133 in order for a hearing to discuss water and sewer infrastructure related
challenges here in Chinatown and the leather district. This this matter was sponsored by myself and council Aaron Murphy who was present in referred to the committee on February 25th, 2026.
We had a similar meeting at the same location last year as well. Before we begin, I would like to remind my city council colleagues and our panelists to please speak at a moderate
pace to ensure interpretation language language interpretation can properly can properly convey your remarks. So again, if you can speak a little slower than usual just so that our
interpreters that are here can help our neighbors. I want to say thank you to the excellent um language and communication specialists that we have here. Greatly appreciate the work you do.
And as you probably know, Chinatown and the leather district in the south end actually has a large Cantonese speaking community and Mandarin community as well. So I'm glad that the city council central staff has helped me and want to
say thank you to Shane, to Megan, and to Ethan for helping me um set up this meeting. So three outstanding um city officials. On the panel today
we have John Sullivan who's the chief engineer at Boston Water and Sewer, Peter Nagel who's with National Grid. We have Don Silva who's the regional
vice president of Vicinity Energy and Christian Simelli from the Boston Groundwater Trust. He's the executive director. Before I give my opening statement, I do want to give council Murphy the opportunity to go first.
Council Murphy. >> Thank you, Council Flynn. First want to thank the residents who came out. It's always good. And thank you to central staff for accommodating this in neighborhood in district
meeting. I think it's important anytime we're able to hear directly from residents, not just during the workday. Many times you can't get into city hall. So, looking forward to hearing from the residents, any concerns they may still have, but I was here at this meeting
last year. I think many of you, if not all of you, were here um and spoke to us about the work you were doing to address it. And I know a lot of work has been done. So looking forward to hearing the updates that have been made and if
there's anything else needed know that I'm just here to support councelor Flynn who's a wonderful district counselor always showing up for the residents and um just happy to be here and learn more how I can advocate as an atlarge city councelor. So thank you.
>> Thank you council Murphy. We will also have public testimony and I do want to give the public an opportunity to testify, but I'm going to I'm going to hear from the panel first and then we'll go to directly to public
testimony. Um, but I'm going to give my opening remarks as councelor Murphy mentioned and as I mentioned too, we had a similar meeting last year. Each city councelor is allowed to have one on-site um formal meeting
um in in every two years. And I always like to have my meeting here in Chinatown here in the Leather District because I value and respect the residents here, but I also know that these quality of life issues are critical. Neighborhood services are
critical to you. At a similar hearing I held we held last September, Chinatown and Leather District residents were able to participate via translation by my assistant Melissa. As as the then city council president, I
invested in language access and translation equipment to assist city residents that speak languages other than English. As I mentioned, there will be interpreters here at this hearing. I want to say thank you to councelor Murphy for always supporting language and communication access along with
councelor Julia Mahia as well. Over the last few years there have been several water main breaks that have impacted traffic services and businesses in and around Chinatown the leather district.
We also know that there was a recent break at the intersection of Washington in Neand Street that block traffic. Um, leather district residents reached out to me and mentioned u tap water
temperatures that are extremely high. I know we'll probably hear from residents as well discussing this. We had a leaking steam pipe um that closed a portion of downtown Boston right out in front of city hall.
Uh recently a number of potential factors can lead to water mane breaks, aging pipes, soil corrosion, construction, traffic weight. Water and soil commission actively monitors the health and function of its systems via
pipe rellining. pipe replacement and other preventive maintenance programs including water mane flushing, pipe cleaning, catch basin cleaning, among others. We also know that Chinatown has probably the oldest pipes
um in the city, if not the second the second oldest. Um in 2016, it was estimated that 22% of water pipes in Boston were more than a century old. 2024 water and sewer announced that
their plans for capital improvement in the area. Chinatown scheduled improvements included recent projects to replace a 100-year-old water man on Hudson Street that was completed in 2023. Another project to replace a
100-year-old sewer main on Tyler Street completed in 2024. the leather district. A new project to replace a water mane along Essex Street from Lincoln to Washington in Chinatown is scheduled. We must refocus our efforts on the nuts
and bolts of municipal government in water and sewer pipes are among the most important pieces of infrastructure in our city. Our utilities greatly impact public safety. They impact public health, quality of life, Boston's long-term
economic vitality. It's important that we continue to work hard and advocate for money in the capital budget for upgrades to aging systems. We have to work together on these issues to ensure public safety issues are
addressed as well. That the impact of construction disruptions are limited and that we continue to support our neighbors and small businesses. I mentioned the panel that is here this evening. Um I do want to give each
person an opportunity if they'd like to give a opening statement. I also want to acknowledge a former colleague in the Boston city council. Councelor Ali is with us as well working working with Vicinity Energy. But let me start with
John Sullivan. Um, John, if you would like to give an opening statement, maybe highlighting the work we need to do, some of the work we've done in the Leather District, Chinatown, but some of the challenges that we have um in the Leather District
in Chinatown, and how we're going to work together to address any issues. And again, these issues are never going all these issues are never going to be solved, but what's important is we work together to improve conditions. Constantly
working together to constantly improve conditions for residents. Um, I don't think, as I mentioned, I don't think we'll ever solve every problem, but we have to stay focused on quality of life issues, nuts and bolts of uh, city government. John Sullivan.
>> Thank you, councelor. Um, again, my name is John Sullivan. I am the chief engineer of the Boston Water and Sewer Commission, and I've been employed at the Boston Water Sewer Commission for the past 54 years. Um, I've been chief engineer since 1989,
and I've been dealing with these problems with our water pipes, our sewer pipes, and our drainage pipes. Um, what I have tonight, if if you indulge me, counselor, is I have some handouts. Um, and they'll go through them real quick.
Um, but nobody likes to come to a meeting and and not being able to go home without something. So, if somebody from the audience could grab these and Yep. hand them out. I think there's about 35. You may have to share a couple. It'll be really quick. These you
can take. These um you can take home and you can study them later and if you have questions you can contact us and we could describe them further. What I have is three sheets and they're they're sheet B, C, and D. Um nobody gets an A
tonight. >> Yeah. >> So on sheet B it's the uh leather district water man by age and in the lower right hand corner is a legend. So any pipes shown on this
little map that are red, they were laid before 1925. Any of those that you see there that are yellow would be between 1926 and 1975. And more importantly, those that are
blue are pipes that we've been working on since 1976. Now to us, 197 I'm sorry. Listen. All right, I I will continue. I hope you're fine. I know this these three
sheets are exciting you, but I just just thought I'd start off with that. >> Put them down. So, uh, again on sheet B, um, we just wanted to show you by color how old these pipes are. And the reason I say the blue ones, uh, make us feel good. They're 50 years old, some of
these pipes. But a water pipe 50 years old is not an old pipe. We have a pipe in Boston Common that was laid in 1848. It was the original pipe feeding water to the city of Boston, and it's in great shape. pipes. All pipes will corrode and
they will age, but it depends on the environment they're in. And being in Boston common, it's the perfect environment. No traffic, no other utilities, no one digging near you. It was laid by hand. That's why it's lasted so long. And then as we have them in the rest of the city with other utilities
and all the other problems we have, um, with, you know, filled in land, etc., corrosion hits our pipes definitely. So, I just want to make sure you understand that 76 is not an old pipe. And I say that I remember when I was younger than 76. So, we'll let that one go. So, on
the sheet though, what's important, and this is what I wanted to highlight to you, is that the yellow cross-hatched areas on Washington Street, Tmont Street, um down along Marginal Street. That's the work that last September I
told you we would be looking at to do some additional work would be in design during this year. We will be advertising a job in the fall for construction next spring. And all those streets that you see there, we will be fixing anything
that needs repair. Specifically, the water pipes are all going out. Some of the sewer pipes need some repair and some of the drainage pipes need repair. So that's going to be about a 20 to a $25 million contract that we'll be letting out to renew that entire system.
A lot of these pipes, we have computer analysis on them and we have predictive using artificial intelligence. We predict which pipes may fail first and these were the higher pipes. You will notice up on Essex Street that's red.
That's pre-1925. We are looking at that trying to figure out how we will replace those pipes. We've been on Boilster Street lately. That's the same era. The problem with those pipes is every other utility is laying on top of us. The water pipes are
down 5t. The sewer pipes are down 9 ft. The other utilities are down perhaps 4 feet, three feet. So, it's a massive undertaking when we go to dig a pipe that there's other utilities above us and we need them to move. And so that
disrupts your life. That disrupts businesses. So we're slowly looking at those ones up on Essex Street and the ones on on Washington Street. We will get to them, but we do a lot of coordination with other utilities. It's extremely disruptive. So I just want to
let you know we're not ignoring them. We understand them and we will be getting at them. So that's a a sheet you can just look at later. Uh, sheet C is we took a look at the water mane breaks and what's pretty remarkable we
have had a lot of water main bras here in very small a little small green octagon or hexagon I guess they are the these are pipes that have broken in your neighborhood thrown a lot of water all over the street >> but these are private pipes they were
owned by the building owner of all of these shown here there's about 35 breaks in this area. 20 of them are leaks that were responsible by the building owner. They generally they're fire pipes. They sit there and they corrode like everything else and they break, but they
can throw a lot of water. The ones that are shown um in the circles and we mark them by color, those are brakes on that age pipe. So, if you see a red one, that's an old pipe, 1926, and that's where they broke. The yellow ones are
between 26 and 75. They're old, but not necessarily that old. And then we have some of the ones in blue ones and the 50 year old pipe. So, we just wanted to show you we we're doing analyses on all of these what's breaking. And a lot of the problems are the private pipes that
aren't replaced. And then on sheet D, we also worry about our sewers because fixing a water pipe is digging a hole five, six foot deep. Some of the sewer pipes can be as deep as 20 ft. That is a
major excavation, major problem supporting of the utilities. So what we do is every single one of these sewers, we're going inside them and we run a TV camera through them. We inspect every inch of the pipes to decide if we need to go in immediately to prevent a
collapse in a sewer backup or whether we can use some alternative methods. We have the ability to fix sewer pipes from the surface. We actually run fiberglass socks through them and with resin we steam them up and harden them and we build the pipe within the pipe
and it works very well. Our oldest one of those rehab pipes is around 56 years old right now. It's in great shape. So, we wanted to show you that we haven't been ignoring you. You don't see us out there all the time doing this because we do a lot of this at night, but we're
taking a look at every asset we own in this district and in other districts throughout the city. We've got 70% of the whole city televised with the sewer pipes and we're going to finish 100%. But I just wanted you to see that we have been paying attention to your streets. We've been paying attention to
your underground. We're trying to avoid the disruptions. We understand what it does, but we just wanted to explain where we were in this. And the key is again to sheet B. That's the work that will be advertised later this fall. And we are funded for it. So it's not like we're going to advertise it, not have
the money, and we'll undertake the work in 2027 and perhaps running into 2028. >> Thank you, John. Um, appreciate that update. And I'm going to ask Christian
to speak next, but I I do want to highlight what John H what John mentioned with the upcoming infrastructure projects. I will work closely with Boston Water and Sewer Commission. I will ask John
and I'm sure he'll he'll agree, but if we can do a Zoom meeting, a community meeting, and maybe just go over some of the planning, what to expect, um going over in depth the the streets and what's going to happen, the impact on public
safety, the impact on quality of life, how will benefit residents, but that's that's for another conversation. But just want to say thank you, John. Um Christian, you're on the hot seat. >> Okay. Thank you, councelor. Once again, Christian Sonelli, executive director of the groundwater trust. Um, our purpose
as a trust is to monitor the city's groundwater table. And the reason that we do that is that in the fieldland areas of the city, you have buildings that are supported on wood piles. And those root piles need to remain submerged in groundwater in order to maintain the structural integrity. Uh, we have a well network system of about
800 wells, and that's how we monitor the water levels underneath your streets. And in the event that the water table drops, uh it could be for a variety of reasons. And uh most of the time, unfortunately, it may be water and sewer infrastructure that may have a a break.
Uh John mentioned the level of pipe, his level of pipes below the street, you know, in that 5 foot to 20 foot range. That's right within the regime of the groundwater table that we're concerned about. Um, so visually if you can picture a bathtub and you can picture a bathtub filled with water and a bunch of
pipes going through that bathtub, the level in that bathtub is going to stay high if the pipes in that bathtub are all solid and there are no cracks or leaks. But as soon as one of those pipes develops a crack or a leaks and it settles due to age or whatever, the water in that tub is going to go down.
And that's pretty much how the water table works here. Um, so we work hand in hand with water and sewer. uh we send them our groundwater world level data when we complete a round of readings. Uh they highlight the areas that are low and where they have infrastructure. They
go in and investigate it. Uh and if they found if it's found to have a leak, they fix it and the water table comes back up. On the flip side, we also alert them to when we have a spike in uh groundwater levels in a particular location because that's usually a sign
that something has broken underground and there's, you know, usually supply line water leaking into the system. It could be a hydrant, it could be anything. So, that's what we do. That's sort of our role in the process. Um, how we got pulled into this, uh, was that a resident on 717 Atlantic A, Robert Qua,
reached out to me a few years ago, noticed that one of our wells had a a twoft over a twoft increase in the water table. Uh, subsequently at the same time, he started experiencing uh, hot water coming into his building. Um, the rise in the water table for us was good
because the commission was out there fixing pipes and the water table came up and for us that was good. Um, and Don could speak to this a little bit more, but what happened is that uh, vicinity service line sort of came in contact with that rising groundwater and in turn
uh, was essentially heating the service into that building. And so that's how we sort of got roped into this, I guess you could say. I've learned a lot throughout this process. So, it's been a real learning experience. Uh, I think it's been beneficial for all of us to sit down and coordinate and and think our way through this. And I'm going to just
turn it over to Don and uh, his comments. Thank Thank you. >> Sorry, Council. I didn't mean to to jump you there. >> No, no, you're fine. Um, thank you, Christian. Um, Don, >> sure. Um, good evening, Cheriff Flynn, Councelor Murphy. Thank you for having
us. Uh, my name is Don Sylvia. I'm the regional vice president of operations for Vicinity Energy. Uh, so I have charge of the Cambridge and Boston systems. Uh, Vicinity is the largest owner operator of district energy systems in the US. We serve more than uh
260 million square feet of space. Uh in Boston it's about 72 million square feet. So it's a fairly large network. Uh we do serve 12 cities, 12 other cities. Uh and you know we are we're driving to decarbonize the city of Austin uh through different solutions that we
have. One of which is the largest electro boiler in the United States that's housed in Cambridge. Uh so it's taking a large bite out of the city's uh carbon generation. We serve uh our main customers are our critical care customers. We serve pretty
much all the hospitals in the city of Boston. Tus New England Medical Center, Boston University Medical Center uh and the like. Mass General Hospital also uh serve universities. Suffach University, Emerson College uh to name a couple. So
we we have 29 miles of pipe that that interconnect throughout the city running from Nean Street over to Cambridge uh and out to Mass Avenue. Uh so it's a fairly small area considering the size of the city. Uh but it is 29 miles of
pipe. Uh we take our role in the community very seriously because we're also we realize we're in a very congested and highly populated area and as the city develops we see more and more interface between us and the public. Uh to respond to that we staff
24 hours a day, seven days a week. uh and we strive to respond as quickly as possible to any of the city's 311 calls uh or any other inputs that we may get from the city uh or or its constituents
sometimes directly uh we've had a longtime presence in Chinatown and and the Leather District uh and have lived there collaboratively and cooperatively we feel um with a few exceptions uh and we're we're trying to deal with one of
those. Um, currently, uh, it's been a long-standing effort and I appreciate the cooperation and the input from the residents at 77. I know it's been a frustrating process for them, but I think through the cooperation of John Sullivan at water and sewer and with
Christian's help um to coordinate the information underneath the groundwater um we have come to a solution and what we hope is a good solution and we are prepared to move on it. Um
and hopefully that will correct uh the underlying issue that that happens there. We do have interface with water and sewer on a regular basis, right? We talk about water mane breaks and water man leaks and oftent times that can
influence our system. Uh we have manholes uh that have pipes in them that do operate at at a fairly high temperature uh and contact with those pipes can act as an immersion heater and we end up with uh some vaporing manholes. We try to address those as
quickly as we can. we contact water and sewer. Water and sewer is very responsive in in helping investigate and making corrections. So we I think we've moved on from a period in time maybe when John started in in 54 years ago
where it was a antagonistic relationship to a very cooperative relationship. So uh we our phones ring intimately between one another on a regular basis. So I appreciate the opportunity to come here tonight. uh and to report back from the
since the last time we met that we've engaged engineers, we've engaged um the groundwater trust, we've engaged Boston Water and Sewer, we've had Water and Sewer review our plan, sign off on our plan, uh and the next stage will be
construction. Uh construction will be slightly delayed due to all the city events that are happening in uh at this time of year. And and you know, we we obviously don't want to impact FIFA. We don't want to impact Sale Boston and the other civic events. So,
I I like to think by the end of this summer, we've got this corrected and and we will continue to work cooperatively. And I also want to call out uh Councelor Flynn. Uh he has been very diligent in making sure we stayed on task uh and and we and we've moved
this process forward. >> Thank Thank you, Don. Um before before we continue with Peter, I just want to check is is there any issues at all with um anyone's technical um language or communication interpretation? Is
everyone okay? I just wanted to make sure. Are we speaking at a at a good at a good pace? >> Okay. Okay. Um next um Peter Nagel with National Grid. Peter, thanks for being
here. Thanks, Councelor Flynn. Thank you, Councelor Murphy, for having us this evening. Thanks to everyone uh here this evening. My name's uh Peter Nagel. I'm with National Grid's Community Engagement. Um referencing what some of the other folks uh on the panel are
saying, uh National Grid, like the other utilities, works as a um we're a a a visitor to the city of Boston. And as such, we uh strive every day to be a good neighbor while we're doing our
work. Uh that work is at the behest of city issued permits which uh require a lot of communication above and beyond. What folks uh in the audience see us doing on a regular basis, on a daily
basis, is um monitoring our uh natural gas infrastructure, making repairs, uh replacing uh leakprone pipe and doing meter changes. However, what folks don't
see is that communication aspect that all the utilities have referenced. Similar to John Sullivan's plans, National Grid has algorithms of each pipe that's in the ground. And say for instance, anytime a leak is called or an
odor is called in, we're required to respond to that uh phone call. But in addition to that, we keep uh extensive records on those pipes, which in turn
can lead to our replacement uh structure. Like everyone else, Boston's obviously an older city, so most of the infrastructure under the ground is aging. Uh there's three different um
replacements, I would say. The first is that referenced aged infrastructure. The second is encroachments. When water and sewer or another uh vicinity or someone else uh brings uh
new pipe into the area, what we are uh required to have space between those pipes within the ground. And the third is when the city proposes a full depth paving on a street, we'll coordinate
with other utilities and such to uh get in and do a replacement or at a bare minimum do a survey of any leaks and such. Um in that effort we also work
with um uh the city and its contractors relative to uh reimbursing them for gate structure raising as well as with groundwater trust as well. Um final
point on my uh kickoff uh I referenced the meter changes this year we're going to be uh stressing that a little bit more. So, um, if you do get something as an owner, as a building owner, as a
resident, uh, asking us to come in, I'd ask that you reach out to us and don't discard that. We are required to change our meters every seven years. and um access and assistance from our neighbors
and our customers is key to uh ensuring that those meters are safely and effectively changed. And thank you for uh everyone's time this evening. >> Thank you, Peter. Um, I'm going to hold off on my questions and uh, Council
Murphy, do you want to hold off on yours and we'll go to public testimony and then if there are any questions that weren't asked, maybe we can we can kind of ask those questions, but I want to go directly to public testimony and the um, microphone is off to the left hand side
there. Yeah, right hand side. I only have four people that have signed up to testify. If you still want to testify, um, please raise your hand. Um, we want to hear from you.
So, I'm going to I'm going to call the four names and then if you want to come down one at a time or if you want to come down uh two people and and then the next person can go right after. But, Khaleem,
Colleen, good to see you. Um, Katherine Freriedman. Um, and then and then I'll call the next two I'll call the next two people in another couple of minutes. Um, but I don't necessarily have a um I know some
councils have a time limit on public testimony, but want to give everybody a fair opportunity to speak um on what's important to you. So, I don't necessarily have a time limit, but um the mic is yours, Colleen. >> Sure. Can you hear me? Okay. >> Yeah, we can.
>> Great. Um first of all, thank you, Councelor Flynn, and thank you, gentlemen, for your uh your background and details. Find it very helpful. So, I appreciate it. Uh so, my name is Khim Celiba. Uh I live in the Leather District. I lived in Boston for about 25 years and in the Leather District for 14
years. I'm the chairman of the board of Lincoln Plaza Condominium Association, which is um on the corner of Essex and South Street and also Essex and Lincoln Street. Um that is a building with um 84
residential units and six commercial units. And um over the past three years in particular, uh our residential community, not just our building, but the surrounding vicinity has been significantly disrupted by the level of
um construction that's been going on in the middle of the night. And I think sometimes Leather District and uh parts of Chinatown are mistaken for predominantly commercial areas that are quiet and empty in the evenings. And
that's simply not true. I think there's been a significant level of disruption um throughout these these three years that has led to sleepless nights, complaints from residents in addition to a lot of the uh commercial impacts that I know some of you are aware of right
when there was a water main break. I know some of the restaurants in the area had to shut down essentially that night at great expense to them. But I I really just wanted to speak and make sure folks understand that what while we are a small community of residents,
we are a very concentrated community of residents. We're not as big as the South End. We're not as big as Back Bay. We're not as big as Seapport, but there is a high density of residents who live in our area. And you know, to to the the city, the
mayor's office, and the various contractors and departments credit, I think when the residents have been loud enough, we've seen a response from the city that has moved the construction to a more reasonable time, which is great. The not so great part is that we seem to
have to repeat the same exercise every single year. 2024, 2025, 2026. like clockwork. I have to get in touch with Melissa and counselor Flynn and Chris Betty and Katherine of the Leather District Neighborhood
Association, mobilize um the Lincoln Plaza community to make the same outreaches we seem to have to repeat every year. And and look, I get it. We understand that there's necessary work that has to happen in the city. I'm an engineer. I have a masters in electrical and computer engineering. And so I can
appreciate a lot of the things that you're saying. We have to deal with a lot of capital projects at the building where I'm the chair and I get it. It's expensive. It's disruptive and it needs to be planned thoughtfully. And so my request would be that we maintain
situational awareness and communication with the community and contiguity with some of the decisions and actions that are made so that we don't have to rediscover them year after year. late night construction is simply not acceptable unless it is an actual
emergency. And I think some of what's been happening is um what I call scheduled emergencies where it's not actually an emergency but a permit is issued for middle of the night construction and you know you go down and try and understand what the emergency is and there actually isn't
one. There's just, you know, it's been scheduled work. Just happens to be scheduled at a time where people are trying to sleep but can't because they're jackhammering, excavating, uh, saw cutting uh, the pavement. So, it's quite disruptive. And you know, I
think I I heard um it's it's great to hear that there is what sounds like a high degree of technological enablement like using AI to proactively predict failures in the water lines and gas lines is awesome, right? I think that shows a level of
technological maturity and evolution that is great to see the city employ. What I would ask is that we leverage that same technological and digital maturity in the way in which we communicate with the community. Making known what's happening when, where are the where are the plans, these are great
plans, where can we find them, right? Without having handouts distributed, and where can we have reassurances that the community has a way to understand what's going on in a proactive and preemptive fashion rather than having to react
every time something happens. Um, and so with that, I just want to kind of offer my help and my support. If there's anything I can do to be a both a proponent for the community, but also a proponent for the necessary work that has to happen in the city, I am at your
disposal. That is all. Thank >> Thank you, Colleen. Next up is is Katherine. And what I was going to do is and then there's two other people that are scheduled to testify, but after Katherine speaks, we
we generally don't have question and answers. We just have kind of comments. But after Katherine speaks, I do want to give the uh the panel an opportunity to kind of weigh in with the response to Khaleem and Katherine and then and then
we'll go to the next the next two people after that. But um Katherine, uh the floor is yours. Good evening. My name is Katherine Freriedman and I'm speaking on behalf of the Leather District Neighborhood Association. While this hearing is focused on water and sewer, the Leather District's underground
infrastructure challenges extend beyond those systems. Utility excavations are a constant presence. Yet, it is often difficult for residents to know which companies are working or what problems are being addressed. Our infrastructure is highly interconnected and work on one system
can impact others. Two of our primary concerns are unusually high are the unusually high water table and elevated underground water temperatures. The high water table raises important questions about where the water is coming from. At the hearing last fall, uh Chief Selvin, you
explained that it is neither BWS seawater nor seawater, which raises further questions about its source and we would benefit from a clearer explanation. And I would love to have that conversation with you because I find that you are an incredible educator and I genuinely would like to learn more.
Elevated underground water temperatures have real consequences. They warm residential cold water lines, damage electrical and telecommunications infrastructure and harm the roots of street trees. I would also ask the council to consider how steam infrastructure fits into this
discussion. On the morning of June 3rd, I went outside after hearing what sounded like a jet engine. People poured out of buildings throughout the neighborhood trying to determine what had happened. Within minutes, at least 10 police and fire vehicles arrived at the vicinity plant with lights and sirens. I later learned that the noise
was a controlled steam release following a leak that had been discovered approximately 90 minutes earlier on Congress Street. If the release was planned, I would appreciate a better understanding of the coordination and notification process. The public response and the emergency response
suggest that there is an opportunity to improve communications so residents, businesses, and first responders know what to expect during an event like this. The Leather District may be small, but it sits at the center of critical infrastructure serving much of downtown Boston. I respectfully ask that the city
establish an ongoing forum that keeps the leather district actively included in discussions with city agencies and utility providers as these complex underground infrastructure issues are investigated and addressed. Thank you.
>> Thank thank you Katherine. Thank you for the for your testimony, but for also for the the work you do in the community, not just in le the leather district, but also throughout Chinatown and involved in after school programs as well with
Josiah Quinsey School. Um so to the panel, um Colleen mentioned late night construction, uh some community engagement. Um Katherine did as well. um she talked about the water table, water temp water
temperatures, um noise coordination, but also public response with first responders. So, having having factored having said those um kind of summarized those two u public testimony from from the panel
from the uh public, do you are you able to weigh in on what what um what your response might be to um to Katherine and to Colleen? Yeah. Well, a couple of comments. Um, when we prepare our work, first we understand in the in the old
days, we had commercial only and we had residential only. There's no such thing anymore. People have all mixed together. So, at any given time, somebody's trying to sleep, somebody's trying to work, somebody's trying to drive around. We are subject when we want to put a new
pipe in, we are subject to the rules and regulations of the city. We need to bring our plans and we bring them to the transportation department into public works. Both of which give us permits. They dictate when we can work.
We also have public meetings when they're very complicated jobs. Very complicated. And we we talk to the residents and we tell them what's what. We have to bid these jobs with the rules in them. If the city tells us we cannot get on the street till 9:30 in the
morning because of traffic and we got to be off that street at 3:30, the cost of those jobs go up phenomenally because the contractor can't work by the time he sets everything up. So a lot of times we will try to extend those hours. We'll try to push the limits once we get the
contract. We try to push it a little bit past 5, etc. The evening hours, we work evening hours only because we're told we can't work daylight hours. And that's the that's the burden put upon us. And so um that's a comment.
Perhaps we can work better with the office of neighborhood services or mayor's office and they can hold additional meetings and get the information. I give you an example. Over in East Boston, we are on Chelsea Street. We're digging a hole 20 ft deep
putting in storm drains. We're relocating a 36-inch transmission main. and we we have a certain amount of time we can work. The neighborhood got together. It's a bunch of businesses. They got together with the city with the office of neighborhood services and
said, "Let them work all day long, double shifts. Get them out of here. We'd rather put up with pain for a month than what's scheduled now for six six months of of terror." And so that's what I would don't disagree. We need to do
more of that because we keep forgetting that it looks like a commercial district. People live upstairs in those commercial districts and we're doing more and more of that and and we do understand it. We do try to get better. We do notify everyone anytime we're coming into an area. We do notify every
building owner that we'll be there. We give you two weeks notice. We give you our phone numbers. We'll hold as many community meetings as we need to, but we're are subject to when we can work by outsiders, whether they be the state giving us a permit or whether the city gives us a permit. So, that would was
just my comment on that. >> As far as the water table and everything else, we work very closely with the with the groundwater trust. Two things happen. If we have a leak, the groundwater goes up. It could go in your buildings. We've seen problems with the vicinity in the in the groundwater
tables. On the other hand, when the groundwater goes down, um, we're exposing a lot of your buildings piles to oxygen, which can cause them to deteriorate. And so, we're all over that. And when we find it, we then have to get in there and do the work. And we
may be told, you can't go in during the day. There are businesses you'll disrupt. You must go in at night. Once you start digging a job, it's it's easy to say, "Well, why don't you work from 7 to 11 and go home?" Once we get down there, we generally have to keep working
between shoring the trench, worrying about other utilities. Sometimes we break other utilities and then they come in on an emergency. So, it's not always us doing it. We may excavate it, break it. We may find that their utilities ready to fall in on us. So those are the
so-called emergencies that you think, well, why didn't you plan that? None of us know what this stuff looks like on the ground till we expose it. So what looks sometimes like a normal maintenance project turns into a mess because of what we find in the ground. So those are just my two comments.
>> Thank you. Christian, did you want to weigh in? >> Sure. Um just responding to to Katherine's comment about, you know, the water, where does it come from? Um, one if by land, two if by sea. We're all familiar with that quote. This was the
sea. This was marsh land. This was water. This was ocean. We filled that in. We put buildings on top of that fill. We drove the piles through that fill. And so the water table is still there, keeping those piles submerged.
When they put up these buildings, they knew, the engineers knew, the architects knew because this technology goes all the way back to Europe for centuries. There are buildings hundreds of years old uh in Europe that are on piles because the the piles have remained
saturated. So that water table is in that aquifer in that bathtub that I mentioned earlier. And what feeds that is what we get for rainfall. What feeds that is when uh there's a large storm event and you have the recharge systems that are in place through the city's
article 32 zoning where a building's roof drains are collected and they're put into a a groundwater recharge system and not going out into the street through a storm drain that replenishes the groundwater table. Anywhere we have green space or porous pavement when it rains and the snow melts that replenishes the groundwater table. So
that groundwater tables is constantly being recharged and that aquifer is being replenished as we get precipitation. So just to answer Katherine's question, that's that's really what the genesis of the water table is. And as John mentioned, if he has a leak and a pipe and it goes down
and we more importantly, we see that in our wells, um, you know, we'll know instantaneously it's it's it's usually something artificial. Uh, what I mean by that is it's a man-made structure, something that we have in the ground, a sewer, a tunnel, whatever it could be. Uh because when we read these wells and
we read them about eight times, six to eight times per year, um so twice a quarter, they move a few inches in either direction up or down what we get or we don't get for precipitation. It's when we see a drop of a foot or two feet when everything else around it is steady or is up a little or is down a little,
you know, then we know that there's a problem with the infrastructure uh in that area. >> Don, >> sure. Um just to speak to first I echo what John says about permit hours. Um oftent times you we will make an
application and then it will be dictated what the hours are. I think uh your your point is well taken um as the as the neighborhood evolves. I think the city needs to be aware of that and uh and perhaps you would rather suffer through
a little traffic than than noise in the middle of the night. And that that makes sense. It was my house. I think the same way. Uh, as far as the noise from the steam plant, specifically on June 3rd, uh, June 3rd was the date that there
was, as I think Councilman Flynn uh, talked about, a break in a line on Congress Street. This doesn't happen. It's not a daily occurrence. It's not something it happens once in a blue moon. and we actually had uh an expansion joint fail suddenly which
caused us to have to isolate a section of the system. When we isolated that section of the system uh the system had to rebalance and before it could rebalance there was actually uh an increased pressure inside the the uh the
steam plant itself and the steam plant has safety devices. So it triggered one of those safety devices which is a a relief valve. So that noise that came off of the building was the relief valve uh relieving the pressure by design
and uh and then it was perceived as uh some type of a catastrophic explosion and someone called 911 and the fire department responded to the building. Uh they they came, they met with the plant personnel and then they left just as
fast. So, >> okay. Um, Don, the the one point on the water temperature, >> do you have any response to that issue? >> I guess I didn't hear the the question.
I'm not aware of the of that specific issue in that specific location. So, I appreciate the question and I will go back and and get an answer to it. >> Okay. Um maybe I'll follow up with um I I believe Katherine asked it the water
the water temperature but let me let me follow up with Katherine and um get a little bit more information on that um before we go on to the next two people which are Kevin and Bolan. Um Peter, do you want to respond?
>> Sure. The night work that uh National Grid does uh is in two buckets if you will. The first is the reference permitted work and part of our permit agreement with the city is we mail all
abutters that is owners, occupants, any we use about six different uh um cataloges for lack of better description to get those um residents um to get
outreach. Similarly, we'll post uh 48 to 72 hours in advance. And there is a specific request from the city to include the the actual permit of what we're be what are what we're doing with
the uh contact number on it. The other bucket of work is the emergency work and that um more than likely is what if uh you're hearing national grid work is what it's going to be because uh our
edict um obviously is we have to make safe before we leave. And that means um if there is a trace of uh odor into a um an a building um or close enough or if
it's in a manhole traveling that has to be resolved before we vacate the premise. Um we that is why we try to have such a vigorous replacement program so we're not out disrupting folks at uh
ungodly hours. Um we realize it and um we try to minimize that um footprint as much as possible as well. And uh I definitely do hear your concern
>> Pete. Thank you. The next two people, please. Um, Kevin and Bolan. Um, I'm just going to ask Peter a quick question as a followup. Peter, when you're doing that community engagement and you have the permit with you, um, notification to
the community, are you doing it in obviously you're doing it in English, but are you doing it in Chinese as well? There's uh um I'm only hesitating councel because it used to be seven different uh at the top of the about a letter saying this is
please don't discard this have it uh translated. Um in ter we have worked uh extensively with your office relative to translations and have even uh worked with some of your folks to get things
translated um to a more palatable level as well. Um >> yeah that thank you. I I I will I will mention if there are any community meetings and anyone needs the assistance of my office to translate, we'd be glad
to do that for you. Um just reach out to um reach out to me and Melissa from my team who's who's who's over there does an exceptional job. She's been with me for eight years. She'll be able to um provide written translation. But up next is Kevin. Kevin, good to see you.
>> Sure. Thank you. Yeah, good evening everyone. I'm Kevin Toe. Uh my family and I live in Lincoln Plaza, which is in the Leather District, happens to be a chair of our board. Uh first, I want to thank you, Councelor Flynn Murphy, and representative of the panel for
continued focus on this matter. Khale and Katherine actually covered everything, did a great job. So, I'm not going to beling the points there. I just want to echo their comments and say that I share their sentiment. I hope councelor Flynn and and this panel can continue to prioritize the meaningful
update of the water infrastructure in our district but also in a thoughtful manner and to consider how to better limit the disruption to the residents of uh district 2. Right. Thank you. Thank you Kevin. Hi Bolan. Good to see you.
>> Bwan is also a member of the um Chinese Progressive Association. Good to be with you. Hi uh good evening everyone. I try my best uh but I need the uh kom interpreter up for some some issue. Okay. Okay. Uh my name is Marin Kuang. I
am I work in Chinatown. I am the staff in Chinese professor association. But today I want to li uh bring the issue is from the uh Mr. Ma who living in oak palace ping ma who is the co-chair in
Chinatown western association because he cannot attend tonight meeting asked me to bring the issue to everyone uh because uh Mr. Mother say on here
everyone can see in the pin on street on the on the map a bit pin on street is the oxifer between oxifer and edible Uh,
yeah. near the Pingongan street and there is a pothole there and uh when it rains and it accumulate a large pool of water which impedes pedestrians.
So we suspect there is a water pipe break underneath that pool of water and there is also a Taiwanese restaurant nearby and we have employees walking every day.
Okay. >> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. >> How are you? >> And thank you the country. Uh I hold this meeting for hear the less than voice. That's why Mr. Ma asked me to
bring this issue. I just want to know this tree in their plan to fix it as soon as possible or do they have the plan to fix this this street? >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> And and thank you to Kevin. >> Um John Ping on I know you're familiar with that with that area with that street. Um, a lot of water stays there um after a storm.
>> What What are we going to do on that street, John? >> So, so we are responsible for draining public streets is where we drain. You see the catch basins, the 3x3 squares and going away. There are many private
alleys, private ways uh in the city backyards. there are uh parking lots that don't drain properly and it is it's the owner's responsibility to take care of them. Now, what was just described
may be a water leak. It may be uh residual water. Uh just on Marginal Street where I park my car tonight, I notice there's a big pond of water on Marginal Street. So, trunks through it because that's fun. Uh I find there is a public catch base in there that needs to
be cleaned. Unfortunately, we have a car parked on top of it. So, when I go back out tonight, the crews will try to tonight. Hopefully, not waking anybody up at night to see if they can get at that basin and and clear it. But, we will take a look. I the first I heard of
it. Um, but many times we will look, we will investigate. We do have the capacity to test the water and we can test the water to see if it has the characteristics of what our drinking water has because in in water we add fluoride. It's not always there
naturally. So if the the fluoride is about 7, it's probably our water. We test for chlorine because we add chloromines into the water and that's not a natural thing you'd normally see. So in a situation like this, we can actually sample the water. We can walk
around, we can talk to people, but that's the first I've heard of this as a problem. So, >> we will we will take a look at it. >> I know I know my call I know my um assistant Melissa is familiar with that issue. Um she highlighted to me that
um the building is not connected um to public sewer and the in the basin is periodically um periodically cleaned. Um but we have we have some challenges at
that at that site at that particular building. I can give you more information, John, offline. >> Oh no, that's fine. But I'm just explaining there there are responsibilities we have and the responsibilities of the private homeowners. And so we will investigate
every one of them and then we will tell the homeowner what's what. And then if action needs to be taken, the city agency that does it is the inspectional services department >> and they have the ability to go on private property and enforce all kinds
of regulations and have homeowners, building owners fix things that may be bothering the whole neighborhood. So the jurisdiction comes out of us onto another city department. So just that's how it works. >> Okay. >> I'm going to give an opportunity to um
Council Murphy to ask questions to to the panel. Uh Council Murphy, >> thank you. >> You have the floor. >> Thank you. And thank you to the residents who asked their questions because I would not have known to bring
any of those up. A few Just to understand better, you mentioned that on the water pipes are under the utility pipes. So if we're doing work on the water pipes, what I don't know if burden's the right word, but what do the
utilities need to do? And is that a cost to you also? >> The the way the system uh runs in the city is that the water and sewer used to be part of the city itself. So when we were formed in 1977, we kept the rights we had as a city
agency as far as our ability to be in the ground. What that means is if somebody has laid their pipe on top of us, a private utility, we have the right to tell them move your pipe. Now we try,
it's a public expense. If someone has to move something, it costs all of us some way or another. whether it it's more money on your gas bill, your electric bill, whatever. So, we try to avoid making people move. So, we work all around it where we can, but if we need
to have them move, we tell them in advance. And it's very common. Um, the gas company, you'll see them out before we get there because they're very close to us. We know that we'll be encroaching on them. They're going to wind up moving anyway. So, you'll that's why a lot of times you see the gas company work, then
we come in and work. They move out of our way. So that's very common. But in general, we don't pick up the cost of moving. The problem is the excavation construction work takes forever to get it done because as soon as we find the
problem, we notify them. They need to try to mobilize. They have their engineering and it gets very difficult and people wonder what's going on there. Why didn't they plan it? The plans in the city of Boston aren't as accurate as we would like them to be. We are pretty sure we know where our pipes are and
they're pretty sure they know where their pipes are, but there's no guarantee either of us knows where the pipes are. We go by old records done perhaps a hundred years ago. So there are those conflicts, but in general we we try to avoid anybody having to move.
We try to support them, but if we need to, then they got to come in and move their utility. We put ours in, then they got to come back and they got to put their utility back. So that's why sometimes you see construction holes. We're there forever. It's because of underground utility conflicts.
>> Thank you. Um you showed a bunch of I like your maps by the way. These are good. Um the green dots and there's many that are private and the private way conversation that comes up a lot. Not just about utilities. We're having conversations on
the council, you know, about potholes and all the other things that private ways bring. But when a leak happens or something happens in one of these private pipes, what is expected of you? Is it just tell them to do it? But what do we do as a city if the private pipe
isn't fixed? >> So the private pipes generally your domestic water, the water you drink in your homes. We own that pipe right up to your 18 inches of your wall if your house is right on the street. So we own the service pipe. It's what we call a
service pipe. It's the water that you drink every day. However, many many buildings have private fire pipes, a separate pipe that does nothing but pro protect that building with fire sprinklers. Those are the most common breaks we
have. They're generally 4 in or 6 in pipes. Pretty goodiz pipes. And when they break, they throw a lot of water. So, our obligation is to control the situation. get down there, stop the water, stop the the the damage that could be happening. And as soon as we
determine that it's a private pipe, we notify the building owner. They then need to get a contractor. That contractor needs to go to the city, get permission to dig the hole, etc. So, that's the process. It's generally done right away. But the when you see the
water bubbling out, we will respond. We will control the situation. Then, if it's our job, we'll go in and do it. If it's their job, we notify them. >> Thank you. One other question. A lot of your projects like these showing are far out. They're not just
reacting to an emergency. You're planning always to repair old pipe. um knowing that are any of these plans shared with other utilities so that we know like hey we're going to be in this neighborhood the ground's going to be
open and you'll plan things that you also know you have to get done >> so so every year in June we just sent them out we notify every utility in the city we notify every public agency in the city we notify the MBTA we notify
MASDOT we're getting ready to do another planning session. We tell them, tell us what you're doing. We hold the public hearing in November where we tell everybody this is what we're doing so all agencies know where
we're going to work. That gives them plenty of time that if they know they absolutely have a problem in that area that they can make plans at the same time. So, we do this every year. We've been doing it since 1977. Every year we're the and I believe we're the only ones that notify everybody. Um,
we do get calls from other people saying we're preparing to do work and then we need to do exactly that. And when we're planning something, if you remember, you hear about Blue Hill Avenue in the news. We are finishing up a multi-year job of fixing all of our pipes on Blue Hill
Avenue. So, when they're ready to do the street reconstruction, we're done. You can come in and do what you want. So, if the city of Boston tells us they've got a major job, the major jobs will be like a Washington Street or Comwalth Avenue, we'll go in, we'll TV the pipes, we'll take a look at
everything and we don't do it with them. We try to do it ahead of time. Now, the problem there, of course, is that you got construction for many years. You got the water and sewer goes in there, then the gas company goes in there, and then sometimes the you may see a Verizon in there. Um, but we all try to get ahead
of it so that once we put down that pavement, none of us should go back there for a good at least 10 years before anything goes on. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, Council Murphy. Um, I did have a resident text me. I think every
resident in my district has my cell phone. Um, so let me ask Alice if you'd like to come down. Alice from S cell street. Would you like to come down and testify? Good to see you Alice. >> Good evening everyone. My name is Alice
Chen and I'm a resident of 210 South Street. Thank you councelor Flynn for hosting this hearing. We really appreciate this forum to allow the neighborhood to express our concerns and understand what is being done to address these serious issues. vicinity steam pipes are cooking the
groundwater to 161 degrees as recorded by the Boston Groundwater Trust. And this is causing all kinds of issues. There is foul smelling hot steam that is pouring out directly in front of our building's doorstep that my two young kids have to walk through every day on
their way to school on on their way home. The manhole covers are dangerously hot due to the steam coming out of them, which is a burn hazard. and my son was actually burned by one of those manhole steam covers with the steam coming out. The steam actually came into our
building and destroyed our gym and our bike room. The wall in our basement facing the hollow sidewalk that is full of steam is hot enough to cook an egg. And that heat has permeated through the basement area such that it feels like an oven in there and has driven up the
electricity bills. It is melting data infrastructure in the street and Comcast is constantly out there replacing melted equipment. It was great to hear today that vicinity sounds like that there is a plan or a solution in place. So, we would greatly love to hear and better
understand what the solution is to bring down the elevated temperatures um and reduce the steam issue in our neighborhood. Thank you. >> Thank Thank you, Alice. I do want to give um Don an opportunity to respond um
and offer any uh comment. Uh Don, you have the floor. >> Yeah, Alice, I you know, I'd like to be able to respond to you with detail. Um what you're bringing up, I think, was brought up in the fall as well. I think I I recall this exact testimony. Uh I
believe that we had been out there and I thought that that part of this has been resolved and I'm s I'm sad to hear that it hasn't been. So I would have to take that back uh and get with the distribution manager and try to find out you know what's there but we will engage with you to to see uh what can be done
and >> great. Thank you very much individually. >> I appreciate that. Yeah, Alice, can I um can I follow up with you um tomorrow or Monday and maybe maybe we can have a conversation and then um then we'll try
to do a call with um vicinity and and or water and sewer as well. But maybe I'll I'll give you a call Monday. >> Okay, that sounds great. Thank you very much. >> Okay, thank you Alice. Before Before I ask questions, was there anyone else that wanted to
testify that didn't sign in? There's still an opportunity. Okay. Most of my questions were were were asked and and answered. Um let let me ask a a general question.
Public safety is always an issue I focus on. Coordination working with emergency management as well. If there is a major issue in Chinatown or the leather district
um for vicinity for for water and sewer um for any of the utility companies, are you are we all prepared to coordinate effectively with the police, with the fire, with EMS if
there is an emergency and we have to notify residents and we have to comm communicate with residents as well. Want to see what your thoughts might be on that. Open to open to anyone.
>> Well, when when we get a water break, we immediately notify uh fire and police and ambulances because the streets are going to be shut down and there may be additional flooding. We call the mayor's office and we depend because they're 24/7. We depend on them to notify the
other utilities um in emergency management. Um the reason we call the fire right away is we're about to change the water pressure and fire hydrants. So we want them to know that if there's a fire called in, they may bring may need to bring down two companies because the
pressures could be lower. Um many times they're the ones who call us tell them there's a water break. So that's they're already there at the scene. Um so we work with them extremely well. We then immediately call um the local gas guys,
local gas company and utilities because we're going to be digging a hole and we need them down there to mark out where they're going to be. And this has been going on for years and it it works extremely well. Um so whenever there's that type of emergency, longer term longer term emergencies, we would work
with uh the city's emergency management system and we would have them coordinate everything. That would be more if we lost the transmission main a 42 inch and we'd have lower pressures and we'd be able to tell everybody, you know, if we
needed to hold back on the water or if we had a major sewer collapse like they had in Washington DC where sewage backs up in everyone's home. So that's a public health emergency. We're constantly dealing with our Boston public health department on everything
that we do. Whenever we have storms and the sewage overflow into the harbor, they're notified to tell people who fish and swim. They have their own outlet. We do that also with the hospitals. So, anytime there's a problem near the hospitals, we notify the hospital
networks and each one of them has their own network. So, we believe it works extremely well as far as we're concerned. Anyone else want to respond? Don? >> Yeah, I would just say that um you know we are typically very fortunate um that
we h there was a a period in time when we did have more incidents than we we do but we do still maintain and drill annually um for emergency response. As I said earlier, we have a 247 presence in the city and it's critical
infrastructure. Uh typically we'll have police details with us throughout the night. Uh so that communication happens very quickly. Uh the 311 mayor's office hotline gets notified should we have any type of an issue. Uh and reciprocally if
there's something noticed by the public, then they'll notify 311 and we get that call immediately uh and we'll respond. Uh but we do have a a plan and we have people that are trained specifically for emergency response. Uh and we and we
execute that plan and as I said, luckily we have not had to do that in the recent past. Peter. >> Yeah. Echoing what uh the others say, um similar to what National Grid does in
addition to having uh various roundts um at certain points on different exercises. Um obviously 247 presence. Um, a lot of the time fire typically will get the same call we do via that
311 or and might even be there sooner than we are. Um, field personnel. There's a complete um NIM structure that we work with in addition to a say a fire department and such in terms of response
and uh single communication ladders and such. So there's uh there are plans uh in place for any level of um from a a a simple street leak to a an evacuation of
a larger building or and such. And similarly uh be involved with uh EMD as well as uh the ability to uh create reverse 911s and such and any uh many
other uh notification trees as well. >> Okay. I I want to follow up on comments that Alice made. So when when we're walking in in Boston in downtown Boston or the other district
or or any neighborhood, but but let me focus it on the downtown area and we see steam coming up from the manhole cover. Um and that steam is hot. It's very hot. The temperature is very hot. And then
sometimes we see a um a yellow kind of barrier around it for caution. keep keep away from this. But Alice mentioned that the steam is extremely hot. Um,
do we measure the steam throughout various neighborhoods that that could impact public safety, quality of life, and even even health issues? But do we do we measure how hot that steam is?
>> I I guess the short answer to that is absolutely. So I mean the the product that we make and we transport the energy that we transport right is a is a high energy project product um it typically will be in the neighborhood of 150
pounds and will operate in about 300 degrees um and that's by design and that's what's used at the at the facilities we deliver it to. When you see secondary vapor on the street, more often than not, it can be and it is uh
water in the man collecting in the manholes. That's why you see it at the manholes. Um and it's secondary vapor. So to address that problem, um we will pump the manhole. Um there is a a preventive maintenance program that we
have that's prescriptive. uh you know we by regulation um have to inspect the manholes in in certain delineated periods. Uh and if we come across degraded insulation or something of that nature that's causing
excess heat then we address that after rainstorms. Sometimes you'll see more vapor than other times because there'll be water collecting in the manholes. It gets into the manholes. Um, typically in pedestrian areas, uh, we
have non-heat conductive uh, manhole lids that are uh, we call them lid for fill, but they're they're basically a a composite lid cover um, to help to help with that uh,
problem. But there are instances there are probably 300 manholes uh throughout the city uh and you know we do need to constantly monitor them and we do need to perform maintenance now that situation where the where the
steam is coming from the manhole covers that it's very it's very hot. So, what impact, if any, does that have? Or maybe it's unrelated, but and I was talking to um several other
residents of the Leather District, but when someone turns their water on in their apartment, in their condo, and the water is very hot or the shower is very hot, I'm not I'm in and and residents have told me it's it's extremely hot. How does that
happen? Why does that happen? And is it isolated? Is it an isolated incident or is it a bigger leather district problem or just one or two areas? And then you know it's kind of a bunch of questions I guess but what is our
overall strategy to not do it kind of piece by piece but do it by you know making making major infrastruct infrastructure improvements. >> I guess I you know I I appreciate that question. Um to be quite honest with you
uh it's it's not to my knowledge widespread. Um it is a case-byase basis. uh and it's a challenge. So in this specific instance that we're talking about um at 77 Atlantic AB, uh
we hired a third party engineer, right? And he did quite a bit of of work. We engaged water and sewer and we worked with them as far as where their infrastructure was in relationship to our manhole structures uh in our steam lines in Atlantic A. The Atlantic A
infrastructure is not old, right? It was installed during the uh uh the central lottery project as part of the central lottery project. So as John said, as far as infrastructure goes, it's a 2000 to 2002
uh installation. Um and that seems to be isolated. Now, if you have other information that you want to share with me, then you know we can look at other instances. Um but I don't see this as a widespread problem. >> Okay.
Um before before I ask my colleague Council Murphy to provide a closing statement, I do want to um I I did want to try to um end the meeting around 7:40 if I was able to
because I know we have to be out by um by 8 o'clock um and take things down by 8 o'clock. But is there anything that we haven't discussed tonight that's important to the residents of the Leather District or to Chinatown that would impact their
quality of life, their their safety or improve any conditions that we haven't focused on that we could briefly mention and maybe have a a further discussion about um at another time? Well, I I think we hit the high points.
You know, we want to make sure you're 247, you've got water service, and we you got sewer service, which is probably more important than having water service. Um, but we're available 24/7. And if any of you need us to come out and discuss anything, um, we have a
communications department. We have any of the engineers. We're more than willing anytime you want for us to come out and discuss whatever the issues are. Again, we have limited jurisdiction. You got to remember what we can and can't do, but we'll discuss that ahead of time
and and we'll come out and do what we can do if there's any particular issues. >> Yeah. One one question I wanted to ask John and and maybe it's a more of a um a request. Many of my constituents in Chinatown
don't necessarily have air conditions. They don't have um um HVAC fans. Um so they come out sometimes in the evening when it's cooler out. Um because their apartments are their
apartments are hot. Um, and I know in the past you've worked with me and having the water and sewer water truck um out in Chinatown for for an extended period of time, especially when it's hot, so people can cool off with a little bit of with some water. But do
you have plans to um continue that outreach this summer? >> The Yeah, we have the water truck which is booked pretty solid. Um but as any emergency, one of the reasons we have the truck is that during emergencies, if we can't get portable water, we will
bring that anywhere. Um it's that's always available. You'd have to call. >> Yeah. >> And you know, we could always observe if we were going to an event and we could because we had an emergency, we would tend to go to the emergency, but right now we only have one of them. The Mass
Water Resources has one available. So if during an emergency we need to get coupled together, we can do that. Can are we able to prioritize this area when it's very hot out? And I say that not because I represent it, but
the heat island effect in the leather district in Chinatown. The lowest number of trees of any neighborhood in the city of Boston is in Chinatown, the Leather District. Um it's it's the temperature is like 10 degrees or 12 degrees higher
in the Leather District and Chinatown than other neighborhoods. We they live directly across from Salt Station with the train system, with the bus system, with the highway system underneath it, with the with the pollution. Um, and that makes it more challenging, but I I
really would like to see if we're able to at least do something more for the residents, but can I work with you on that? >> Oh, certainly. I mean, we can talk about it. I'm not sure what even the schedule is. I know it's very busy. They're always going somewhere at different hours. So,
>> yeah. But I I I do I want to prioritize China, Tom. That's that's what's important to me. Um let me I know Melissa had her hand up for some reason, but I also know um there was another question as well from
Colleen. Colleen, did you want to say something? >> Yeah, someone can make an Do did you want to make a comment? Yeah, go ahead up, Colleen. Um, great discussion. I just wanted to raise a few additional points and acknowledge maybe some of the the conversations that's happened since I
spoke. Um, so Alice, you you you mentioned the steam rising from the manholes and uh kind of the the danger that poses. Um, I would say I have come to almost recognize steam rising from those manhole covers as a permanent
fixture in the Leather District. Um, to the point where my wife and my two and a half-year-old son are almost trained to avoid them um on the off chance that they may be hotter than they appear. Uh, it's also just been brought to light that within the Lincoln Plaza community,
there are some residents who are also experiencing extremely hot cold tap water. What should be cold being hot? Um, and so I think it it goes without saying. I know my my my earlier comments focused a lot on disruption to the
neighborhood and that I think that's very important and I have a few more comments to make on that point. it is secondary to the safety of the residents and uh you know people who frequent the community and so I I think we need some
stronger reassurances that there isn't some more systemic widespread problem as a result of these reports that are occurring and a result of frankly the the steam that is uh more present than not in our community and maybe there's
an explanation for it but if there is we should really understand what that explanation is at a level of detail that takes into account the specific areas where that steam is being observed. Right? So instead of blanket statements
about what can happen and what does happen and uh more specifically inventorying where all of this is occurring and providing some uh specific statements as to whether or not it's a problem and if it's a problem what's being done about it
>> and and just to echo a little bit I think what councelor Flynn was was getting at to the degree to which we all can work together to understand how to address these problems s systemically rather than episodically. I think um it
it would both decrease the cost of solving some of these problems. Although it may not appear like that on the surface, it does uh because I can tell you Essex Street has been dug up more times than I can count. Right? It's not the case that it was dug up once and put back together. In fact, it was dug up several times. A major streetwide
repaving effort occurred and it's just been dug up since, you know, at a at a fairly frequent basis. And uh you know I don't know the reasons for that because it's it's not uh you know I don't get those letters or you know half the time the permit actually isn't posted. There have even been instances where uh my
wife has actually been met with hostility when asking about permits which I find frankly completely unacceptable. So that is all to say I think you have residents here who are genuinely concerned about their safety and that is not acceptable. Right. I
think that the city, the contractors the city works with owe residents an explanation and more importantly a resolution where it is deemed that the conditions are unsafe. No one should be afraid of their kids navigating manhole covers that is simply
unacceptable in 2026 in a modern American city. So there has to be a better way. So I would plead with you all and everyone you work with to help us find a more permanent and systemic a evaluation and b solution to what's
going on. Um so that's one more important. Uh second point is thank you for your responses on on the permitting process. I think um what I'm hearing is a lot of the times it's in the hands of the Boston public works and um while
that I think is true, I believe there is shared accountability in establishing a working hours that are acceptable and workable for the city. And I would also say that the um the city has reversed its permitting hours every single year.
Every single year the construction starts at, you know, from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 a.m. in the morning. And every single year we complain and those hours are revised. And they're revised because the impact of working during the day in many parts of the Leather District in Chinatown are not significant. In fact,
if you drive by Essex Street, South Street, Lincoln Street, you will see cars double parked throughout the day. whether it's picking up subs from Al's Cafe or frequenting some of the other commercial businesses. Um these are not major thoroughares in a lot of cases and
so um I don't believe enough attention is being given to the specific traffic dynamics in these areas and potentially what's happening is a blanket answer is being given. Oh, it's near the financial district. We can't disrupt traffic. So
what we I think collectively want to see as a community is uh more intention behind what's being done, more intention behind the permitting process, more intention behind the communication process, and particularly more intention
behind understanding and addressing the safety concerns that you're hearing from the community. Um and I that's uh I'll I'll end there because I know councelor you wanted to end the meeting in two minutes. So thank you. >> Thank thank you Khaleem. Um
know what I know what I will do is after the after the meeting I will I'll I'll chair another meeting maybe a virtual meeting um maybe two months from now and we can include public works with us and we can
have a similar continuation of this meeting may maybe after the summer is over and see what progress we've made over the last two months. So maybe in September uh we can have a sim similar meeting, a follow-up meeting um on on
Zoom, but there are some outstanding issues that residents have highlighted um that still need answers. I do want to I do want to let residents know that if you if you did miss the meeting, I will
post this meeting on social media as well. And I would ask if um some residents in the leather district in Chinatown if they can forward it to some of their friends and neighbors, but to contact me um on any outstanding issues
and I can follow up with you and and and add them as part of the discussion agenda, but there might be some issues that are important for us to focus on almost immediately, especially when it impacts public safety.
We all take that very seriously. Um, I'm not going to give a f final closing statement other than to say, um, thank you to the panel for being here. Thank you to the residents for being here. Thank you to my colleagues at city council central staff for being
here. Thank you to councelor Murphy for being here. Council Murphy, I'm going to give you the opportunity to close the meeting up. >> Thank you. And I'll continue thank yous to um, Council Flynn staff who always do a wonderful job and are here um in the
community all the time. So, thank you to your staff also, but thank you Megan, Shane, and Ethan for being here um in the panel obviously. And we'll continue this conversation along with council. Thank you. >> Thank Thank you, Council Murphy. And you you reminded me. I want to say thank you
to Melissa, say thank you to Sydney, thank you to Meg again, to central staff, to the panel, to the um to the residents especially this meeting on docket 0413 in order for a hearing to discuss
water and sewer infrastructure in Chinatown in the in the leather district is adjourned.