GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYBODY. FOR THE RECORD MY NAME IS JOHN FITZGERALD. DISTRICT THREE CITY COUNCILOR AND I AM THE CHAIR OF THE BOSTON CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC HEALTH, HOMELESSNESS AND RECOVERY.
TODAY IS MARCH 9TH 2026. THE EXACT TIME IS 205. THIS HEARING IS BEING RECORDED AND IS ALSO BEING LIVE STREAMED@BOSTON.GOV.
BACKSLASH CITY HYPHEN COUNCIL HYPHEN TV AND BROADCAST ON XFINITY CHANNEL EIGHT RCN CHANNEL 82 FIOS CHANNEL 964.
WRITTEN COMMENTS MAY BE SENT TO THE COMMITTEE EMAIL AT SCOTT HEALTH@BOSTON.GOV. AND WILL BE MADE PART OF THE RECORD AND AVAILABLE TO ALL COUNCILORS. PUBLIC TESTIMONY WILL BE TAKEN
DURING THIS HEARING. INDIVIDUALS WILL BE CALLED ON IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY SIGNED UP AND WILL HAVE TWO MINUTES TO TESTIFY. IF YOU INTERESTED IN TESTIFYING IN PERSON, PLEASE ADD YOUR NAME TO THE SIGN UP SHEET NEAR THE
ENTRANCE OF THE CHAMBER. UH, IF YOU'RE LOOKING TO TESTIFY VIRTUALLY, PLEASE EMAIL OUR CENTRAL STAFF LIAISON MEGAN KAVANAGH AT MEGAN.
MEG CONTACT KAVANAUGH K AVE A N HGH@BOSTON.GOV. FOR THE LINK AND YOUR NAME WILL BE ADDED TO THE LIST. TODAY'S HEARING IS ON DOCKET
0175. ORDER FOR A HEARING TO DISCUSS THE REGULATION OF KRATOM IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. THIS MATTER WAS SPONSORED BY COUNCILORS JOHN FITZGERALD AND EDWARD M FLYNN AND WAS REFERRED
TO THE COMMITTEE ON JANUARY 28TH 2026. TODAY I AM JOINED BY MY COLLEAGUES IN ORDER OF ARRIVAL COUNCILOR ERIN MURPHY, COUNCILOR ED FLYNN. UH, COUNCILOR CULPEPER AND
COUNCILOR SHARON DURKAN. UM I WILL NOW ALLOW FOR OPENING REMARKS UH, FOR THE COUNCILORS. JUST LEAVE IT 3030 TO 60S. UH, WE'LL START WITH YOU, COUNCILOR MURPHY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UM, I JUST WANT TO THANK THE
PANELISTS FOR BEING HERE. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT CONVERSATION TO MAKE SURE THAT WE KNOW WHAT'S OUT THERE, HOW IT'S AFFECTING PEOPLE ESPECIALLY YOU KNOW, WE KNOW WE'RE WORKING OFTENTIMES, YOU
KNOW, WITH A POPULATION THAT'S STRUGGLING WITH A LOT OF DUAL DIAGNOSIS AND JUST HERE TO UNDERSTAND HOW WE CAN AND MYSELF CAN SUPPORT MAKING SURE OUR RESIDENTS AREN'T AT RISK MORE THAN THEY ALREADY ARE.
SO THANK YOU AND LOOKING FORWARD TO THE CONVERSATION. THANK YOU CHAIR. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR CULPEPPER . THANK YOU COUNCILOR FITZGERALD FOR HOLDING THIS IMPORTANT HEARING ON THE REGULATION OF KRATOM IN BOSTON.
AS CREDIT BECOME MORE WIDELY AVAILABLE IN SMOKE SHOPS, CONVENIENCE STORES AND ONLINE. IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE POTENTIAL PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY IMPLICATIONS.
WE NEED TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW KRATOM IS CURRENTLY BEING SOLD AND USED IN BOSTON. WHAT APPROPRIATE STEPS THE CITY SHOULD CONSIDER TO REGULATE
THESE THESE PRODUCTS AND PROTECT RESIDENTS? AND WE THANK YOU FOR OUR PRESENTERS THIS MORNING. UM LOOK FORWARD TO HOPEFULLY
NOT JUST LOOKING CLOSER AT IT BUT COMING UP WITH SOME WAYS TO HELP REGULATE THESE PRODUCTS. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, COUNCIL COUNCILOR DUNCAN. THANK YOU SO MUCH, CHAIR. UM, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A HUGE
ISSUE AND UM, I'M PARTICULARLY CONCERNED ABOUT SEVEN AND THE BYPRODUCT OF THE KRATOM PLANT. SO, UM, EXCITED TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION. THERE IS A HOUSE BILL, UM, THAT
IS BEING PROPOSED TO REGULATE KRATOM BY CLASSIFYING IT AS UM AS A CLASS THREE SUBSTANCE. I KNOW THAT THE CITY OF BOSTON CAM BANNED SUBSTANCES IN 2015.
UH, WE ADOPTED AN ORDINANCE, UH, PROHIBITING THE POSSESSION, SALE AND MANUFACTURING OF SYNTHETIC CANNABINOIDS. SO INTERESTED, UH, TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO HERE. AND, UH, I WANT TO THANK, UH, THOSE THAT ARE ON THE PANEL AND
EXCITED TO HEAR WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY. GREAT. >> THANK YOU. COLLEAGUES. UH, I WOULD NOW LIKE TO INTRODUCE TODAY'S FIRST, UH, PANEL. UH, I BELIEVE ONLY UH ON BEHALF OF THE ADMINISTRATION, WE HAVE
PJ MCCANN AS THE DEPUTY COMMISSIONER OF POLICY AND PLANNING FOR BOSTON PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION. PETER BUTEAU, UH, THE CEO OF THE GAVYN FOUNDATION AND DOCTOR NONI ESTAR. UM, I THINK THE WAY WE'RE GOING
TO GO ABOUT THIS TODAY, GUYS, JUST SO EVERYONE IS AWARE AND FOR THOSE IN THE AUDIENCE UH, I'M GOING TO ALLOW YOU GUYS TO SORT OF SET THE STAGE A LITTLE BIT. UH, JUST HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF AN OPENING STATEMENT ANYTHING YOU MIGHT HAVE PREPARED OR NOT.
UH, AND THEN I'D PREFER TO GET TO PUBLIC TESTIMONY BECAUSE I KNOW THERE ARE FOLKS HERE THAT TAKE TIME OUT OF THEIR DAY, UH, TO COME HERE AND SO I'D LOVE TO HEAR THEM FIRST AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU GUYS ALSO HEAR SOME OF THEIR CONCERNS.
UH, AND AFTER PUBLIC TESTIMONY WE'LL GO BACK AND WE'LL GO INTO THE Q&A FROM OUR COUNCILORS. SOUND GOOD? UH, MR MCCANN, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO YOU AT FIRST, UH, AND LOOK FORWARD. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. CHAIR. HOW DO YOU OKAY. GOOD. GREAT.
>> GOOD AFTERNOON, CHAIR FITZGERALD AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE AND COUNCIL. MY NAME IS PJ MCCANN AND I AM DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOR POLICY AND PLANNING AT THE BOSTON PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION. THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO TESTIFY ABOUT THIS IMPORTANT
TOPIC. I WILL START WITH A QUICK OVERVIEW OF WHAT KRATOM IS. CREATIVE IS A TROPICAL TREE NATIVE TO SOUTHEAST ASIA. CREATIVE OFTEN REFERS TO PRODUCTS DERIVED FROM ITS
LEAVES. KRATOM HAS A LONG HISTORY OF INDIGENOUS USE IN SOUTHEAST ASIA. UH. HOWEVER, WE HAVE SEEN INCREASED USE IN THE U.S. IN RECENT YEARS . PEOPLE WHO.
USE KRATOM REPORT BOTH STIMULANT LIKE EFFECTS AND EFFECTS THAT ARE SIMILAR TO OPIOIDS AND SEDATIVES. IT IS COMMONLY USED TO SELF TREAT CONDITIONS SUCH AS PAIN,
COUGHING, DIARRHEA, ANXIETY, DEPRESSION AND OPIOID USE. DISORDER AS WELL AS OPIOID WITHDRAWAL. IT IS MOSTLY CONSUMED ORALLY IN THE FORM OF A TABLET OR EXTRACT.
IN THE UNITED STATES IT IS FOUND IN BOTH BRICK AND MORTAR RETAIL STORES AS. >> WELL AS ONLINE. ACCORDING TO THE NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH, THERE ARE RISKS RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH THE
USE OF KRATOM. PEOPLE MAY GET PEOPLE MAY EXPERIENCE MILD TO MODERATE WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS WHEN THEY STOP REGULAR USE. SURVEYS INDICATE THAT A SMALL
PORTION OF USERS REPORT EXPERIENCING SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER SYMPTOMS. ADDITIONALLY, SOME PEOPLE WHO USE KRATOM HAVE REPORTED SIDE EFFECTS SUCH AS. NAUSEA AND DIZZINESS. WHILE SERIOUS NEUROLOGICAL.
AND CARDIOVASCULAR SIDE EFFECTS . ARE LESS COMMON. I WILL ALSO NOTE THAT SOME PEOPLE USE THEM TO SELF TREAT OPIOID USE DISORDER, USING IT TO HELP WITH SYMPTOMS.
AND TO. ALLEVIATE CRAVINGS. I WILL SHARE THAT OUR RECOVERY SERVICES STAFF HAVE SEEN SOME CLIENTS TAKE THIS APPROACH. SOME EVIDENCE OF THE EFFECTIVENESS OF THIS USE IS
ECHOED IN SOME EARLY RESEARCH AND CLINICAL TRIALS THAT ARE UNDERWAY. HOWEVER, NO CREDIT PRODUCTS ARE APPROVED BY FEDERAL REGULATORS AS SAFE AND EFFECTIVE FOR
THERAPEUTIC PURPOSES. AND ANY MARKETING SUGGESTING THAT THE HUMAN HEALTH BENEFITS OF KRATOM. IS PROBLEMATIC. GIVEN THE CURRENT STATE OF THE
SCIENCE VFC RECOMMENDS AGAINST KRATOM USE FOR ANY REASON. SAFE LEGAL TREATMENTS FOR OPIOID USE DISORDER ARE. AVAILABLE FOR RESIDENTS WHO MAY BE USING THEM TO HELP WITH
OPIOID USE DISORDER. FCS RECOVERY SERVICES STAFF ARE . AVAILABLE TO HELP CONNECT YOU WITH. APPROVED MEDICATION ASSISTED TREATMENT. I ALSO WANT TO EMPHASIZE THE
DISTINCTION BETWEEN KRATOM AND SYNTHETICALLY DERIVED COMPOUNDS LIKE SEVEN HYDROXY ARGININE, ALSO KNOWN AS 70H. THESE SYNTHETIC VERSIONS USUALLY INCLUDE SIGNIFICANTLY
HIGHER CONCENTRATIONS OF THE PSYCHOACTIVE SUBSTANCE IN KRATOM INTERACT WITH THE BRAIN IN A WAY SIMILAR TO OPIOIDS AND CARRY ADDITIONAL. HEALTH RISKS. WE ARE FOLLOWING THE INCREASED
USE OF 70H AND WE ARE SEEING IT FOR SALE IN. >> OUR COMMUNITY. WHILE WE KNOW THAT DEATHS FROM KRATOM USE ALONE ARE VERY RARE ,ADDITIONAL DATA ABOUT OVERALL USE RATES AND ADVERSE HEALTH
EFFECTS AND OTHER MEASURES ARE NEEDED TO UNDERSTAND THE SCOPE. >> OF THE ISSUE. FOR EXAMPLE, WHILE DATA ON KRATOM OR ITS DERIVATIVES IS NOT TRACKED IN SUBSTANCE USE DATA, I DO KNOW THAT IT HAS
BEEN FOUND TO BE PRESENT IN CASES WHERE INDIVIDUALS. >> HAVE DIED FROM OVERDOSE FROM OTHER SUBSTANCES. I THINK IT'S ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT BECAUSE 700 H AND PRODUCTS MARKETED AS
KRATOM ARE NOT REGULATED. THESE PRODUCTS ALSO PRESENT ISSUES RELATED TO CONTAMINATION, PURITY AND MISLEADING CLAIMS ABOUT HEALTH BENEFITS. WE HAVE SEEN CONTAMINATIONS
OF KRATOM PRODUCTS INCLUDE SALMONELLA OR CONCERNING LEVELS. OF HEAVY METALS. HOWEVER, I WILL SAY IT IS IMPORTANT TO PLACE THE RISKS THAT I HAVE DESCRIBED HERE IN
PERSPECTIVE. AGAIN, THE MAJORITY OF KRATOM RELATED OVERDOSES NATIONALLY. INVOLVE POLY. >> SUBSTANCE USE, MOST COMMONLY WITH OPIOIDS INCLUDING FENTANYL ,BENZODIAZEPINES OR ALCOHOL.
WHILE WE HAVE NO DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE OF ANY FATAL OVERDOSES ATTRIBUTABLE TO CREATE THEM ALONE IN BOSTON, AGAIN WE DO UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS OFTEN PART OF. UM USE. >> OF MULTI SUBSTANCES.
>> THAT DOES RESULT IN AN OVERDOSE. AND WHILE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT RESIDENTS ARE AWARE OF THE HEALTH RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH THE USE OF ALL COMMONLY MISUSED SUBSTANCES INCLUDING EMERGING
PRODUCTS SUCH AS 70H. WE ALSO DO PRIORITIZE OUR INTERVENTIONS AND PROGRAMS TO ADDRESS THE LEADING CAUSES. >> OF DEATH. OPIOIDS AND THE FULL SCOPE OF SERVICES TO PREVENT, ENGAGE AND TREAT OPIOID USE.
DISORDER. >> GREAT HARM AND SYNTHETIC DERIVATIVES ARE A SERIOUS EMERGING CONCERN AND WE ARE TAKING STEPS TO ADDRESS. IT INTERNALLY. OUR RECOVERY SERVICES TEAM IS DEVELOPING GUIDANCE AS WELL AS
EDUCATION AND OUTREACH MATERIALS. IN ADDITION, FCS TOBACCO CONTROL DIVISION INSPECTS MANY OF THE RETAIL OUTLETS WHERE THESE PRODUCTS ARE MARKETED ARE
MARKETED AND SOLD FOR COMPLIANCE WITH TOBACCO REGULATIONS AND. AS THE AT. >> THE SAME TIME. THEY ARE GATHERING INFORMATION ABOUT THE PRESENCE OF CREATE THEM IN THESE STORES TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE. AVAILABILITY OF THESE PRODUCTS
IN THE COMMUNITY. THE FDA'S COMMITTED TO SUBSTANCE USE PREVENTION AND WE TAKE A COMPREHENSIVE EDUCATION ORIENTED APPROACH, PARTICULARLY FOCUSING ON PREVENTING YOUTH INITIATION ACROSS.
SUBSTANCES, ESPECIALLY. >> WITH PRODUCTS THAT ARE RELATIVELY NEW TO THE COMMUNITY OR ARE CHANGING IN POTENTIALLY HARMFUL WAYS. IT IS IMPORTANT TO EMPOWER RESIDENTS AT ALL AGES WITH. RELIABLE. >> UP TO DATE INFORMATION ABOUT
THE RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH. THESE PRODUCTS. WE GENERALLY WORK TO MAKE SURE THAT THE GUIDANCE WE ISSUE IS BASED ON THE LATEST DATA, INCLUDING WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN THE COMMUNITY.
I WILL END BY SAYING THAT IF YOU BELIEVE SOMEONE IN YOUR LIFE IS EXPERIENCING AN ADVERSE EVENT FROM 70H OR A PRODUCT MARKETED AS KRATOM, CONTACT THE
POISON HELPLINE 1800 222 122 TO CALL 911. OR VISIT. POISON HELP.ORG FOR HELP. IF SOMEONE IS UNRESPONSIVE. AGAIN ALWAYS DIAL.
911 IMMEDIATELY. IF YOU OR A LOVED ONE IS EXPERIENCING A SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER RELATED TO SEVEN H OR ANY PRODUCTS MARKETED AS KRATOM. PLEASE CALL 311 AND GET
CONNECTED WITH OUR PATHS REFERRAL PROGRAM WHO CAN TALK RESIDENTS THROUGH TREATMENT OPTIONS? I APPRECIATE THIS HEARING AS ONE IMPORTANT OPPORTUNITY TO RAISE AWARENESS WITH THE PUBLIC ABOUT THESE SUBSTANCES, AND I'M
AVAILABLE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. >> YOU ALL MAY HAVE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MCCANN. UH, DOCTOR SELA. THANK YOU, MR STAHL'S, UH, FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY.
COUNCIL MAN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. COUNCIL WOMEN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY. UM, JUST TO EXPLAIN MY ROLE SOMEWHAT SO I.
HAVE SERVED FOR 23 YEARS IN LOWELL AND THE CHELMSFORD, UH, COMMUNITIES. I WAS A PHYSICIAN PRIVATE PRACTICE. UH, I'M A OBSTETRICIAN
GYNECOLOGIST BY TRAINING, BUT I DID SURGICAL GYNECOLOGY PRETTY MUCH FOR 15 OF THOSE YEARS. I WAS DIRECTOR OF ROBOTIC SURGERY, DIRECTOR OF MINIMALLY INVASIVE SURGERY AT LOWELL GENERAL. I'VE BEEN PRESIDENT OF THE
MEDICAL STAFF AT LOWELL GENERAL HOSPITAL. I RETIRED, UH, FROM MEDICINE NOW ABOUT TWO AND A HALF YEARS AGO. SO CREDIT HIM TO US WHO SERVED
IN LOWELL IS NOT NEW. THERE'S A VERY LARGE POPULATION OF CAMBODIAN, SOUTHEAST ASIAN MALES IN THAT AREA.
WE KNEW ABOUT IT AS A TEEN BECAUSE THE ELDERLY WOULD BRING THE TEA LEAVES, CRUMPLED THEM, SOAK THEM AND MAKE A TEA. THEY WOULD DRINK THIS BECAUSE IT GAVE THEM A LITTLE ENERGY,
WOULD HELP CALM ANXIETY AND MOM MILD PAIN RELIEF FROM THEIR OSTEOARTHRITIS FOR THE MOST PART VERY MUCH SOMETHING THAT THEY HAD USED IN THEIR CULTURE IN THEIR HOMELAND.
NOW IN THAT TEA YOU HAVE 0.2% AT MOST OF THIS VERY DANGEROUS ALKALOID CALLED 700 AGE HYDROXY MATURE ARGININE.
NOW MOVE FORWARD IT STARTS TO GET USED THIS DERIVATIVE AS A SYNTHETIC IT IS NOW BEING COMPOUNDED TO THE POINT THAT IN
2012 YOU GET THE FIRST ALERT FROM THE FDA ABOUT THIS PRODUCT . IT IS BEING COMPOUNDED AT A 92% CONCENTRATION INSTEAD OF A 0.2 CONCENTRATION.
AND UH, I BELONG TO THE CLAREMONT NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AND OUR PRESIDENT WENT SHOPPING YESTERDAY ON NEWBURY STREET. SO WE HAVE A 90 MILLIGRAM
TABLET OF MHM. THEY DESCRIBE IT MAX STRENGTH 70H PERFECT FOR THOSE WHO WANT LIVER TOXICITY RESPIRATORY DEPRESSION SEDATION ALONG WITH
A EUPHORIA IF YOU'RE JITTERY ON THE WAY TO WORK HERE'S A 60 MILLIGRAM DRINK YOU CAN HAVE ON THE T ALL IN ONE SHOT GETS YOU A LITTLE POWER GOING TROPICAL
FLAVORED AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT FLAVOR, HERE'S AN EXTRACT THAT YOU CAN PUT AND JUST DROP INTO YOUR FAVORITE COFFEE OR ANY DRINK YOU WANT. AND IT ALSO HAS BOTH METRO ARGININE AND 700 H AND BOTH ARE
ACTUALLY DANGEROUS. IT'S NOT JUST A70H. THE CONCENTRATIONS OF BOTH CAN CAUSE LIVER TOXICITY AND THAT'S REALLY THE BIGGEST ISSUE ALONG WITH RESPIRATORY DEPRESSION.
SO WE'VE KNOWN ABOUT IT FOR QUITE SOME TIME. FDA TRIED TO GET IT BANNED UNDER THE CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES ACT COULDN'T BECAUSE THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH OBJECTIVE SCIENCES STUDIES BEING DONE WITH IT.
THIS IS BACK IN YOU KNOW 2018. SO FAST FORWARD TO 2021. THERE'S A SURVEY DONE AND IT'S THE NATIONAL SURVEY ON DRUG USE AND HEALTH. AND THERE ARE 1.7 MILLION USERS
OF THESE PRODUCTS IN 2021 AGED 12 AND UP. AND BY THE WAY, NONE OF THESE PRODUCTS REQUIRED YOU TO SHOW AN ID WHEN PURCHASED. AND YESTERDAY I WAS WALKING ON NEWBURY STREET AND THEY WERE
HANDING OUT FREE ENERGY DRINKS OUT OF A TRUCK THAT WAS PARKED BY THE CVS. NOBODY WAS ASKING FOR ANY AGE THERE. IT WAS JUST BEING HANDED OUT. FREEBIE.
SO WE HAVE NOW A PRODUCT THAT THE FDA SENT A LETTER OF ALERT TO PHYSICIANS IN JULY OF 2025 ALERTING US ABOUT THIS. NOW SADLY IN LOWELL WE'D ALREADY EXPERIENCED THIS.
I'D EXPERIENCED THIS BECAUSE AS A SURGEON I SPENT MOSTLY 3 OR 4 DAYS A WEEK IN THE O.R.. I CAN TELL YOU THE MOST CRITICAL ISSUE THAT NO ONE EVER
CONSIDERS IS NOT JUST WHAT PRESCRIBED MEDICATION SOMEONE'S TAKING. IT'S WHAT SUPPLEMENTS YOU'RE PUTTING IN 70H KRATOM HOWEVER
YOU WISH TO MARKET IT WREAKS HAVOC FOR THE ANESTHESIOLOGIST. AND IT IS AS IF THOUGH YOU'RE OPERATING ON AN OPIOID USER A HEROIN USER YOU HAVE A HORRIFIC
TIME KEEPING THEM UNDER. YOU CAN'T GET THEIR PAIN UNDER CONTROL. AND THE FINE LINE BETWEEN OH THEY'RE UNDER AND THEY'RE NOT BREATHING AND DEAD IS REALLY TIGHT BECAUSE OF THE LIVER
TOXICITY. YOU CLEAR YOUR ANESTHESIA THROUGH YOUR LIVER. SO THIS HAS BEEN MY BACKGROUND SHOW ON AN AVERAGE OPERATING
DAY. AND FROM MY ASSOCIATES WHO DID NEONATOLOGY BECAUSE I GAVE UP OBSTETRICS THEY SEE THE ISSUE IN THE WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS
OF THE NEWBORNS BECAUSE THIS IS THREE TIMES MORE POTENT THAN MORPHINE AT HOW IT BINDS TO THESE TWO IMPORTANT RECEPTORS MU RECEPTORS AND KAPPA RECEPTORS.
THESE ARE THE MAIN RECEPTORS FOR PAIN THAT YOU HAVE IN YOUR BODY AND YOUR BRAIN. SO YOU HAVE TO THEN PUT THESE BABIES THROUGH THE SAME WITHDRAWAL PROTOCOLS YOU WOULD
HAVE YOU HAD A MOM WHO COMES IN ON ANY OTHER SUBSTANCE. WE'VE HAD SO IT IS DEFINITELY NOT A HEALTHY THING.
IT NEEDS TO BE LIMITED. IT NEEDS TO BE MADE AWARE TO THE PUBLIC WHO ARE JUST LIKE OH YEAH, LET ME PICK UP MY ENERGY SHOT AS I HEAD OUT OF THE CONVENIENCE STORE. YOU KNOW BECAUSE IF YOU CAN GET
IT THERE WHICH IT DOES IN MANY STATES THAT'S TOO EASY. AND I KNOW THAT THE FDA HAS THEIR HANDS TIED. THEY ARE TRYING TO GET IT BANNED THROUGH THE CONTROLLED
SUBSTANCES ACT. BUT IT'S NOT THE EASIEST THING TO GET YOU KNOW GREAT ANALYTICAL DATA ON. AND THEY'RE WORKING ON IT BUT WE NEED TO DO MORE AT THE STATE LEVEL. THERE ARE MANY STATES THAT HAVE
BEEN BANNING THIS. IT'S BEEN BANNED IN ALABAMA, ARKANSAS YOU KNOW RHODE ISLAND ,VERMONT. BUT YOU CAN JUST GO TO YOUR GOOGLE AND YOU CAN GET NUMBER
539 KRATOM SETS SELTZER OR YOU CAN GET CYCLING FROM ANOTHER KRATOM 708 PRODUCT DELIVERED TO YOUR HOME. IT'S AVAILABLE ONLINE. ALL OF THESE ARE I'VE GOT A WHOLE LIST OF YOU KNOW KAVA
KRATOM. THEY'RE ALL DIRECTED TO THE YOUNG. THEY ARE BEING FLAVORED WITH THE YOUNG BECAUSE LIKE I SAID IF IN 2021 THEY WERE ALREADY
LOOKING AT A SURVEY OF 12 AND UP. I THINK WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO FIND IT EVEN YOUNGER AND IT'S JUST MADE WAY TOO ACCESSIBLE.
I THINK WHAT'S OCCURRED IN MANY WAYS IS THAT IT'S SLIP THROUGH ALL THE SILOS WE'VE CREATED. WE HAVE A SILO FOR TOBACCO AND ALCOHOL. WE HAVE A SILO FOR
CANNABINOIDS. ALL OF THESE SUPPLEMENTS DON'T LIVE UNDER A SILO. AND BECAUSE THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO FDA REGULATION AS OF YET, AS
MY COLLEAGUE SAID, IT'S NOT UNUSUAL TO FIND LEAD. AND BY THE WAY, EVERYBODY WILL TEST POSITIVE ON THEIR URINE TOX SCREEN FOR FENTANYL BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT'LL COME UP AS ON YOUR SCREENS.
SO IT'S A VERY COMMON THING THAT I'VE SEEN WHEN I HAVE A TOX SCREEN THE PERSON'S LIKE NO NO NO I'M NOT I'M NOT ON THE STUFF ANYMORE. I JUST TAKE AN HERBAL OH WHAT IS I LIKE? OH, GOD. AND YOU CONTACT THE
ANESTHESIOLOGIST AND YOU SAY OKAY, LET'S PREPARE BECAUSE THIS IS LIKE A SIX HOUR SURGERY AND IT'S NOT GOING TO BE FUN. YOU'RE GOING TO BE PLAYING THIS GAME BETWEEN LIFE.
THIS BECAUSE OF THE LIVER AND YOU CANNOT CORRECT THAT. THIS IS NOT A REVERSIBLE. SO YOU DON'T WANT TO BE PAYING FOR LIVER TRANSPLANTS EITHER. NO NO DO THEY WANT TO HAVE THEM.
NO. UM SO I THINK THIS IS A SUBSTANCE THAT WE'VE GOT MANY STATES, MANY MUNICIPALITIES LOW BAND DRAPED IN ALL THE COMMUNITIES AROUND US WHERE WE
PARK WHERE I PRACTICE BAND IT BECAUSE OF THE ACCESSIBILITY ISSUE BUT YOU CAN JUST CROSS THE BORDER UP TO NEW HAMPSHIRE. OF COURSE. SO THANK YOU. GREAT. >> THANK YOU DOCTOR. REALLY APPRECIATE YOU.
UH. MR BABINEAUX, IF YOU ANYTHING YOU WANT TO ADD OF WHAT YOU'RE SEEING ON ON THE RECOVERY SIDE . YEAH. I MEAN A TON, BUT I KNOW WE HAVE A LOT OF TESTIMONY HERE. UM, THANK YOU, COUNCILOR AND
CHAMBER FOR ALLOWING US TO BE HERE. AND SO GREAT TO HEAR FROM YOU GUYS. UM, MY NAME IS PETER BOB. YOU KNOW, I'M THE PRESIDENT CEO GAP FOUNDATION. AS MANY OF YOU KNOW, GAVIN IS A
LEGACY NONPROFIT HERE IN BOSTON HOSTING MANY PROGRAMS THAT SERVE INDIVIDUALS WITH SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER. WE STRIVE TO PROVIDE SAFE AND STRUCTURED ENVIRONMENTS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING TOWARDS LONG TERM MEANINGFUL RECOVERY.
PRIMARY SUBSTANCES THAT WE GENERALLY SEE FOLKS STRUGGLING WITH ALCOHOL, HEROIN OR OTHER OPIATES COCAINE. BENZOS. AMPHETAMINES. HAVING SAID THAT, WE'VE SEEN KRATOM BECOME MORE AND MORE
PREVALENT AS TIME HAS GONE ON AND IT HAS BECOME MORE AVAILABLE AT EVERY SMOKE SHOP, GAS STATION AND SPECIALTY STORE IN AND AROUND OUR CITY. AS WE PREVIOUSLY HEARD, KRATOM
CAN CAUSE AND EFFECT VERY SIMILAR TO AN OPIOID THERE IS NO AGE RESTRICTION TO IT, NO QUALITY CONTROL, NO WARNINGS ON THE LABEL, NO TESTING
REQUIREMENTS ON THE POTENCY OF THE PRODUCT WHEN WE HAVE PATIENTS OR RESIDENTS IN PRE CONTEMPLATION AND CONTEMPLATION STAGES OF OF CHANGE. WE ARE WORKING TO MOTIVATE THEM
TO FIND THE DESIRE TO TAKE ACTION STEPS IN THEIR TREATMENT . SUBSTANCES LIKE KRATOM WHICH ARE VERY CHALLENGING TO DETECT ON ANY TYPE OF URINE SCREEN CAN
DETER ANY MOTIVATION WE CAN PROVIDE AS A PROVIDER WITH PLENTY OF INDIVIDUALS. AS COUNCILOR FLYNN KNOWS, HIS FORMER COLLEAGUES IN THE PROBATION DEPARTMENT AND YOU
KNOW WE LOVE OUR PATIENTS OUR RESIDENTS THAT ARE THAT ARE IN THOSE STAGES THAT ARE THERE FOR YOU KNOW, MAYBE BECAUSE THEY HAVE SOME SOME CONCERNS WITH PROBATION OR LEGAL MATTERS AND
IT'S YOU KNOW, DRUGS LIKE THIS ARE USED AND I DO CALL THEM A DRUG BECAUSE IT IS A DRUG IN MY OPINION. UM, YOU KNOW, TO DETER ANY. IN A URINE. SCREEN SORT OF STAY OUT OF THE HALF THE THE SCREEN OF THE
PROBATION DEPARTMENT. IT IS MARKETED AS A WELLNESS SOLUTION CAN GIVE YOU ENERGY HELP YOU LOSE WEIGHT. IT'S A HARMFUL SUBSTANCE AND IT IS HIGHLY ADDICTIVE. I COMMEND YOU GUYS AND THE
MEMBERS OF THIS COMMITTEE FOR FOR HOLDING THIS HEARING AND I LOOK FORWARD TO PLAYING A VERY SMALL ROLE IN A SOLUTION TO THIS. UM I CAME HERE I GOT SOBER FROM
OBESE DISORDER IN 2006 AT THE GAVIN HOUSE AND UH, SO IT'S BEEN ALMOST 20 YEARS. I HAVE A NUMBER OF UNBELIEVABLE . FRIENDS IN THE RECOVERY COMMUNITY AND TRIBE THAT FORMED AROUND ME AS ONE IN
PARTICULAR I CAN THINK OF SOME OF MY DEAR FRIENDS AND YOU KNOW, WE CAME THROUGH TOGETHER SAME SIMILAR STORY AND UH, YOU KNOW, HE GOT FURTHER EDUCATED.
HE GOT MARRIED AS DID I HE HAD CHILDREN AS DID I AND JUST AMAZING STORY OF. RECOVERY AND AN INCREDIBLY HIGH PRESSURE JOB. OUR WIVES HAVE BECOME FRIENDLY. YOU KNOW, WE TRAVEL TOGETHER,
OUR KIDS KNOW EACH OTHER. ABOUT FOUR MONTHS AGO HE CALLED ME. HE'S A PARENT AND HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH YOU. I'M LIKE, WHAT'S UP? AND I JUST GOT A MENTOR TO ME, YOU KNOW AMAZING YOU KNOW AND
UH, HE SAID. I'M ON DRUGS. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? SO YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN SO BUSY STAYING UP WITH THIS JOB AND I HAD THIS BIG PRESENTATION. I WENT INTO THIS GAS STATION
AND YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST IT GIVES ME ENERGY, YOU KNOW? SO I BOUGHT IT AND HERE WE ARE SIX MONTHS LATER. I CAN'T GET OFF THIS STUFF.
AND HE'S GOT THREE KIDS AND A WIFE AND IT CAME TO LIGHT AND HE'S TRYING TO PREVENT DIVORCE AND TRYING TO KEEP HIS KIDS IN HIS LIFE AND TRYING TO KEEP HIS CAREER BECAUSE HE BOUGHT A
DRINK AT A GAS STATION BECAUSE HE NEEDED ENERGY. AND SO WHEN YOU CALLED AND YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, CAN YOU COME IN LIKE YEAH, 7 OR 8 HOURS.
IT'S AWFUL AND YOU KNOW, IT'S HARMFUL TO OUR RESIDENTS. AS COUNCILOR MURPHY HAD SAID AT THE BEGINNING. SO I'M HERE FOR HIM. I'M HERE FOR OUR RESIDENTS, YOU KNOW, AND ALL THE PEOPLE WE
SERVE AND TO MAKE SURE THE CITY REMAINS SAFE AS YOU GUYS ARE. SO I APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR MAYOR. UM, COMPELLING TESTIMONY. >> FROM. ALL OF YOU. >> AND I REALLY DO APPRECIATE YOU. TAKING THE TIME AGAIN. LIKE I SAID AT THIS MOMENT I'M
GOING TO GO INTO SOME PUBLIC TESTIMONY SO WE CAN HEAR FROM SOME OTHER FOLKS. UH, AND THEN WE'LL GO INTO QUESTIONS. >> FROM COUNCILORS. UH, I'D LIKE TO GO TO THE IN-PERSON FIRST UH, AND HOLLY TRAVEL IF I IF I'M SAYING I.
CORRECT UH IF YOU WANT TO COME UP, JUST PLEASE COME UP TO THE MIC. YOU WILL HAVE TWO MINUTES. UM. AND, UH AND THEN WE'LL BE SEPARATED.
PLEASE JUST INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND, UH. GO ON. >> HELLO. MY NAME IS HOLLY TRAVEL. THANK YOU. THIS IS MY SON TYRRELL. MY NAME IS HOLLY TROUVILLE AND I'M SPEAKING IN FAVOR OF ONLY A
COMPLETE BAN AND NO REGULATION ON ALL KRATOM SYNTHETIC AND NATURAL. I LOST MY ONLY CHILD, MY 25 YEAR OLD SON TYRELL ON FEBRUARY 6TH, 2024 FROM A TRAGEDY AND
TOXICITY IT WAS HIS SOLE CAUSE OF DEATH WITH NO SECONDARY CAUSES NO NOR OPIOIDS IN HIS SYSTEM. THE DEATH CERTIFICATE STATED THAT IN TYRRELL DRANK A KRATOM
SELTZER DRINK MARKETED AS SUGAR FREE, ALCOHOL FREE, CAFFEINE FREE AND HAD LESS THAN THE 2% 70H IN THE DRINK THAT ADVOCATES CLAIM IS SAFE. THIS DRINK CAME FROM A COMPANY THAT SAYS THEY FOLLOW GMP
STANDARDS. TERRELL WAS BORN IN LOWELL, MASS. GRADUATED FROM DRACUT HIGH AND SERVED AS MASSACHUSETTS ARMY RESERVIST. I AM SURE MANY PEOPLE WILL SPEAK TO YOU IN FAVOR OF KRATOM
MOST NOT FROM THIS STATE. YOU WILL HEAR FROM LOBBYISTS IN THEIR BILLION DOLLAR KRATOM INDUSTRY, BUSINESS OWNERS WHO SELL IT FOR PROFIT AND USERS OF KRATOM. I HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN BY BEING HERE TODAY. MY SON IS ALREADY GONE SO MY
ONLY GOAL IS TO PREVENT ANOTHER PARENT FROM FAILING TO COMPLETE ANOTHER UTTER DEVASTATION. I FEEL ON A DAILY BASIS THE FACT THAT USERS SAY IT HELPS THEM STAY OFF OPIOIDS DOES NOT DIMINISH THE ADDICTIVE PROPERTIES OF IT.
REGULATION DOES NOT WORK. IT DOES NOT JUST BECOME SAFE WHEN YOU TURN 21 AND SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN, THE MAJORITY OF DEATHS OF MEN BETWEEN THE AGES OF 21 AND 40. PHARMACOLOGY DOES NOT LIE AND
YOU CANNOT CHANGE THAT EITHER. KRATOM IS BANNED IN ALL ARMED FORCES THE AMERICAN KRATOM ASSOCIATION AND OTHER PROCREATIVE LOBBYING GROUPS REPEATEDLY STATE THAT NATURAL KRATOM IN IS SAFE AND IT HAS
SAVED SO MANY RECOVERING ADDICTS AND THE LIVES OF PEOPLE IN PAIN. BUT WHAT THEY WON'T MENTION IS THAT THERE IS AN IMPORT ALERT BY THE FDA FOR KRATOM AND KRATOM IS SNUCK IN UNDER THE GUISE OF SOAP OR SEAWEED.
THEREFORE WHO IS DETERMINING THAT WHOLE LEAF IS SAFE WHEN IT ARRIVES INTO THE U.S JUST IN THE LAST THREE WEEKS CONNECTICUT PASSED ALL KRATOM AS A SCHEDULE ONE DRUG. CALIFORNIA TOOK IT OFF ALL
OF ITS SHELVES IN TENNESSEE KANSAS AND I HAVE FORWARDED BILLS TO BAN. PLEASE LOOK AT WHERE THE TRAJECTORY OF MASSACHUSETTS IS HEADING AND LISTEN TO THE CONSTITUENTS OF THE COMMONWEALTH. SO FAR THERE ARE ABOUT 20
CITIES OR TOWNS WITH A COMPLETE BAN WHICH I'VE PASSED OUT AND I EVERY WEEK THERE IS A TOWN HAVING A NEW MEETING. I ASK YOU TO WATCH THESE PUBLIC HEARINGS AND LISTEN TO WHY THESE BOARDS OF HEALTH ARE
BANNING. AS A TEACHER AT ONE OF THE LARGEST HIGH SCHOOLS IN THIS STATE, I SEE THE OPIOID CRISIS DAILY. I KNOW THAT BOSTON FIGHTS THAT DAILY BATTLE AS WELL. IT DOES NOT NEED ANOTHER DRUG THAT ATTACHES TO MU OPIOID
RECEPTORS, AND WE'RE THE ONLY PEOPLE REGULATING AND DECIDING DOSAGES OF KRATOM OTHER BUSINESSES AND CONSUMERS THEMSELVES. I IMPLORE YOU TO BAN ALL KRATOM NATURAL AND SYNTHETIC. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME HOLLY.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TESTIMONY AND THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE ON BEHALF OF YOUR SON. AND I KNOW AS MANY OF THE PARENTS HERE IN THE ROOM. >> WE FEEL YOUR PAIN AND WE'RE. SORRY ABOUT THAT. >> THANK YOU I ABSOLUTELY. UP NEXT WE HAVE AMY LACHMAN.
SORRY IF I'M. >> NOT SAYING NAMES CORRECTLY BUT YOU CAN CORRECT ME. THANK YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON. CHAIR AND COUNCIL MEMBERS. MY NAME IS AMY LACHMAN AND. >> I ASK THAT YOU. >> BAN. ALL KRATOM IN BOSTON.
I LOST MY. NEPHEW TERRELLE. TO MIT. SORRY I'M NERVOUS. UM, TO MIT TO. KRATOM TWO. >> YEARS AGO ON. >> ON. FEBRUARY 6TH, 2024. YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR. ADVOCATES SAY THAT.
IT RARELY CAUSES DEATH OR THAT IT. SAVES MORE. LIVES THAN NOT. BUT BOTH OF. THOSE STATEMENTS ARE UNTRUE. MY NEPHEW DID IN FACT DIE FROM THIS. NOT SEVEN ZERO AGE OR SYNTHETICS. AND SECONDLY, NOT ONLY DID MY NEPHEW DIE.
BUT BESIDES. PHYSICALLY SO DID THE REST OF MY FAMILY. MY SISTER IS. BASICALLY THE WALKING DEAD NOW AND THE REST OF US ARE. JUST A SHELL OF WHAT WE USED TO BE. SO FOR ADVOCATES TO SAY. >> IT. DOESN'T TAKE A LOT OF LIVES IT'S INSULTING.
HOWEVER, KRATOM ADVOCATES WANT. >> TO TWIST IT. NATURAL KRATOM DOES KILL. UM WHEN IT IS INGESTED. IT CONVERTS SOME IN THE LIVER THROUGH ENZYME CYP3A4.
THAT IS NOT OPINION BUT SCIENTIFIC FACT. THERE WILL BE PEOPLE TESTIFYING FROM THE AMERICAN CREATIVE ASSOCIATION AND GLOBAL KRATOM ALLIANCE THEY TESTIFY SEEMING LIKE THEY ARE EXPERTS AND ARE
WORKING TOWARDS PUBLIC SAFETY. BUT IN REALITY THEY ARE LOBBYING GROUPS THAT HELP RUN AND ARE CONNECTED TO $1 BILLION INDUSTRY. THEIR MAIN OBJECTIVE IS PROFIT AND TO ENSURE KRATOM STAYS LEGAL.
FOR PROFIT. THEY WILL SAY THAT ALL OF THESE STATES ARE WORKING TOWARDS THE EPA AND. REGULATING THAT IS UNTRUE AS WELL. THE SENIOR FELLOW ON PUBLIC
POLICY FOR THE ARCA MERCADO ADMITTED IN A PUBLIC HEARING IN IDAHO LAST WEEK THAT HE KNOWS NATURAL DOESN'T ALWAYS MEAN SAFE AND HE IS NOT A SCIENTIST NOR AN EXPERT. HIS ASSOCIATION BUSINESS OWNERS
AND OTHERS WILL SAY SOUTHEAST ASIAN COUNTRIES HAVE BEEN USING NATURAL CREATE THEM SAFELY FOR YEARS. BUT WHAT THEY DON'T TELL YOU IS THAT AN ARTICLE PUBLISHED ON MARCH 5TH FROM THE BANGKOK POST
STATES AND I QUOTE THE DRUG PROBLEM AMONG YOUTH IN THAILAND HAS REACHED THE CRISIS STAGE BECAUSE NARCOTICS, CANNABIS, KRATOM AND METHAMPHETAMINE HAVE BECOME SO EASILY ACCESSIBLE,
ACCORDING TO AN ANALYSIS BY THE THAI HEALTH PROMOTION FOUNDATION. HOW IRONIC IS IT THAT THAILAND IS ONE OF THE TWO COUNTRIES THAT SHIPS TRADE THEM TO THE UNITED STATES? SO I PLEASE. ASK YOU TO. >> THINK ABOUT ALL OF THAT.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, AMY. >> THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO COME DOWN HERE ON BEHALF OF YOUR NEPHEW AS WELL. WE REALLY DO. >> APPRECIATE IT. UH, I DON'T THINK THERE'S AND IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT I MAY HAVE MISSED? THOSE WERE THE ONLY TWO NAMES THAT I HAD TO TESTIFY IN PERSON.
I JUST WANTED TO DOUBLE CHECK FOR THE REST. OKAY. UH. >> WE'LL QUICKLY MOVE ON TO, UH, SOME VIRTUAL TESTIMONY. UM, IF WE'RE READY FOR THAT. LIKE PAUL. SAID, UH, WE HAVE, UH, BOB
BARNEY UH, WITH US NOW. UH. >> FROM THE CLAREMONT NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION. >> IN THE SOUTH END. UH, BOB, IF YOU CAN HEAR ME, YOU ARE UP AND YOU ARE GOOD TO GO.
BOB, IF YOU'RE THERE, YOU CAN GO AHEAD. YEAH. >> SORRY. JUST UNMUTING. YEP. ONE SECOND. UH GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYONE. THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK.
UH, MY NAME IS BOB BARNEY AND I'M HERE TODAY TO URGE THE CITY OF BOSTON TO TAKE ACTION TO BAN THE SALE OF KRATOM IN OUR COMMUNITY. UH, KRATOM PRODUCTS ARE
INCREASINGLY BEING SOLD IN NEIGHBORHOODS, LIQUOR STORES AND SMOKE SHOPS ACROSS THE CITY. MANY RESIDENTS HAVE NO IDEA THESE PRODUCTS ARE BEING SOLD
NEAR THEIR HOMES SCHOOLS, PARKS ,PLACES OF WORSHIP. YET KRATOM CAN HAVE HIGHLY ADDICTIVE PROPERTIES AND CAN PRODUCE EFFECTS SIMILAR TO
OPIOID OPIOIDS INCLUDING HEROIN . FOR A CITY THAT HAS WORKED SO HARD TO ADDRESS THE OPIOID CRISIS, ALLOWING THESE PRODUCTS TO PROLIFERATE IN EVERYDAY
RETAIL STORES SENDS THE WRONG MESSAGE. THIS PAST WEEKEND I WENT OUT TO SEE HOW AND HOW EASY IT WAS TO PURCHASE KRATOM IN BOSTON. IT WAS EASY TO FIND IT WAS EASY
TO BUY UH THERE WAS REALLY NO REQUIREMENTS, NOTHING THAT KIND OF SAID HEY, YOU CAN'T GET THIS. UH SO I ACTUALLY WENT INTO A LIQUOR STORE IN THE BACK BAY
AND A SMOKE SHOP IN THE BACK BAY AS WELL WITHOUT REALLY ANY BARRIERS OR MEANINGFUL OVERSIGHT ACROSS THE U.S MANY JURISDICTIONS HAVE ALREADY
RECOGNIZED THE RISKS AND SO MY LIST MIGHT NOT BE AS UP TO DATE AS OTHERS IN THE PANEL. BUT KRATOM IS BANNED STATEWIDE IN PLACES LIKE VERMONT, ALABAMA, ARKANSAS, INDIANA,
WISCONSIN WE'RE ALSO SEEING RESTRICTIONS OR BANNING EFFORTS UNDERWAY IN PLACES SUCH AS WASHINGTON DC, RHODE ISLAND, KANSAS, LOUISIANA AND OHIO.
UM IF A SMOKE SHOP OR LIQUOR STORE CHOOSES TO ADD KRATOM PRODUCTS TO THEIR SHELVES IT SHOULD AT MINIMUM TRIGGER COMMUNITY NOTIFICATION AND
MEETING SO THAT I-S-D CAN SERVE TO LET PEOPLE KNOW IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT THESE SUBSTANCES ARE GOING TO BE SOLD IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND POSE A SERIOUS HEALTH RISK, A
SERIOUS PUBLIC HEALTH RISK, TRANSPARENCY AND COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT MUST BE PART OF THIS PROCESS. WHILE THERE IS YET TO BE A STATEWIDE BAN IN MASSACHUSETTS
,MANY COMMUNITIES HAVE TAKEN SOME REALLY SMART ACTION MUNICIPALITIES INCLUDING BELCHERTOWN, LUDLOW, CHELMSFORD ,CHELMSFORD, DRACUT, MARLBOROUGH, WESTBOROUGH,
ATTLEBORO, WARREN, KINGSTON AND HAVE ALL TAKEN STEPS TO BAN THE PRODUCT. BOSTON SHOULD SHOW THE SAME LEADERSHIP. I WOULD ALSO ENCOURAGE THE BOSTON PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION
TO MAINTAIN A FORMAL LIST OF HIGH RISK PRODUCTS LIKE KRATOM THAT SHOULD NOT BE SOLD IN LOCAL RETAIL ESTABLISHMENTS . PUBLIC HEALTH EXPERTS ARE BEST
POSITIONED TO EVALUATE THESE SUBSTANCES AND DETERMINE WHICH PRODUCTS PRESENT UNACCEPTABLE RISKS TO OUR COMMUNITIES. BOSTON HAS BEEN A LONG LEADER
IN PUBLIC HEALTH AND COMMUNITY SAFETY. OUR NEIGHBORHOOD SHOULD BECOME NOT BECOME THE TESTING GROUND FOR THE NEXT ADDICTIVE PRODUCT EITHER BLASTING TO LEAD AGAIN
BY TAKING ACTION NOW TO PROTECT OUR RESIDENTS AND OUR FAMILIES . THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR COMMITMENT TO THE HEALTH OF OUR CITY. THANK YOU BOB APPRECIATE YOU TAKING THE TIME. UH UP NEXT WE HAVE WENDY LEE
CHAMBERLAIN. OKAY.
WENDY'S NO LONGER WITH US. UH, SUSAN CAVE IS UP NEXT. WANT TO SEE. >> IF.
SUSAN HAS SIGNED ON? IT? OKAY. UH, SUSAN, UH, IF YOU, UH IF YOU ARE THERE AND CAN HEAR US,
YOU CAN UNMUTE YOURSELF AND, UH ,BEGIN YOUR TESTIMONY. THANK YOU. YES, SIR. CAN YOU HEAR ME? OKAY NOW? ABSOLUTELY. >> YES, SIR. THANK YOU. MY NAME IS SUSAN CAVE. I'M ALSO THE MOTHER OF WILLIAM
CAVE WHO DIED AT JUST 32 YEARS OLD FROM CONSUMING RALEIGH CRIED I'M NOT 708. YOU'RE NOT SYNTHETIC. UH, HE WAS HEALTHY. HE HAD NO HISTORY OF ADDICTION
OR DRUG USE OR ABUSE. HE WAS A LOVING FATHER OF ONE DAUGHTER AND A DEVOTED HUSBAND . AND ON APRIL THE 20TH 20TH 2024 MY SON DID NOT COME HOME.
HIS TOXICOLOGY CONFIRMED THAT MY TRAGIC NAME WAS HIS KILLER AND IT WAS DETERMINED THAT HE DIED FROM A TOXIC MIXTURE OF HIS PRESCRIBED ANTIDEPRESSANTS AND RALEIGH KRATOM.
IN THE BEGINNING WILLIAM AND I WERE TOLD THAT RALEIGH FREEDOM WAS SAFE, NATURAL AND A BENIGN SUPPLEMENT TO HELP WITH ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION. AND AFTER CONSUMING RALEIGH FOR LESS THAN ONE YEAR, WILLIAM
REALIZED ALL OF A SUDDEN HE HAD BECOME DEPENDENT WHEN HE TRIED TO STOP IT AND COULDN'T BECAUSE THE WITHDRAWALS AND CRAVINGS WERE SO OVERPOWERING. HE TOOK RALEIGH FOR ABOUT FOUR YEARS BEFORE IT FINALLY TOOK
HIS LIFE, AND THE LAST THREE YEARS WAS SPENT TRYING TO WITHDRAW AND STOP, EACH TIME FAILING. IF RALEIGH FREEDOM BANDS HAD EXISTED OR EXISTED EARLIER,
WILLIAM MIGHT STILL BE HERE TODAY. PLEASE KNOW THAT ALL SYNTHETICS 708 UH INCLUDED COME FROM RALEIGH KRATOM AND IT MAKES NO
COMMON SENSE TO BAN ONE AND NOT THE OTHER. AND HOW CAN YOU BE A RESPONSIBLE KRATOM CONSUMER WHEN SO LITTLE IS KNOWN ABOUT HOW TO CONSUME KRATOM SAFELY?
A LOT IS MENTIONED ABOUT MOST DEATHS OR. POLY KRATOM INTERACTING WITH SOME OTHER DRUG CALLING IT POLY SUBSTANCE BUT PLEASE DON'T FORGET THAT THESE CAN INCLUDE
PRESCRIPTION DRUGS LIKE MY SON . UH AND THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC STUDY ON HOW KRATOM INTERACTS WITH OTHER DRUGS A PERSON MAY BE PRESCRIBED. YOU MAY HEAR KRATOM ADVOCATES
TALK ABOUT THE SINGLE ASCENDING DOSE CLINICAL STUDY. UH, THAT WAS AN EARLY PHASE PHARMACOLOGICAL EXPERIENCE EXPERIMENT, NOT A SAFETY STUDY.
THE STUDY WAS NOT INTENDED TO DETERMINE LONG TERM SAFETY OR EVALUATE REAL WORLD USE PATTERNS. AFTER WILLIAM'S DEATH I JOINED A NATIONAL NONPROFIT CALLED
KRATOM DANGER AWARENESS FOUNDED BY WENDY CHAMBERLAIN. SHE APOLOGIZES FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO BE HERE TODAY. NOW I ADVOCATE NOT ONLY FOR WILLIAM BUT FOR THOUSANDS OF OTHER FAMILIES WHO HAVE BEEN
DEVASTATED BY RALEIGH KRATOM. PLEASE KNOW THAT IN 2025 THE DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION FORMALLY ACCEPTED OUR CITIZEN PETITION REQUESTING THE SCHEDULING OF MY TRAGEDY AND
70H THAT ACCEPTANCE MEANS THAT THERE'S ENOUGH SCIENTIFIC AND MEDICAL CONCERN TO WARRANT A FULL REVIEW UNDER THE CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE ACT. PLEASE LISTEN TO THESE FAMILIES . PLEASE LISTEN TO THESE PEOPLE
TESTIFYING. PLEASE SUPPORT BANS. OR OR SCHEDULE RALEIGH FRIGHT EM. UM, UH, APPRECIATE YOU LISTENING TO ME TODAY.
THANK YOU SO MUCH, SUSAN. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME AND FOR TESTIFYING TODAY IN FRONT OF THE PANEL, UH, IN THE CITY COUNCIL AND AGAIN, UH, THANK YOU FOR TURNING YOUR GRIEF INTO ACTION
MUCH LIKE HOLLY AND AMY, UH, WITH US HERE TODAY AS WELL. UM, AND FROM EVERYONE HERE, UH ,ESPECIALLY THE PARENTS HERE. UH, I SINCERE CONDOLENCES. >> TO YOU, SUSAN. THANK YOU. SO MUCH. >> THANK YOU, THANK YOU.
UM, WE HAVE TWO MORE FOLKS. UH, WE'LL START WITH STEPHEN FOX AND THEN DAN GIBBS WILL FOLLOW HIM AND THEN WE'LL BE COMPLETE WITH TESTIMONY. UH, MR FOX. UH. >> ONCE YOU ARE TAPPED ON THE
SCREEN, UH, YOU CAN BEGIN.
THERE, STEVE. YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT BECOMING A PANELIST. I THINK IF. UH IF THAT'S MR GIBBS, WE CAN MOVE. IF MR GIBBS IS ON, WE'LL MOVE ON TO HIM. BUT TO HIM. YES, SIR. GREAT. >> MR. GREAT. MR. PLEASE.
YES. MY NAME IS DAN GIBBS. GIVE ME ONE, PLEASE. UH. >> CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL. MY NAME IS DAN GIBBS. I'M FATHER OF AUSTIN, A 25 YEAR
OLD YOUNG MAN WHO DIED FROM A TRAGIC TOXICITY THE PRIMARY ACTIVE ALKALOID IN KRATOM. THE MEDICAL EXAMINER CERTIFIED HIS CAUSE OF DEATH AS A TRAGEDY. TOXICITY TOXICOLOGY DID NOT
IDENTIFY FENTANYL, HEROIN, PRESCRIPTION OPIOIDS, SYNTHETIC ADULTERERS OR ANY OTHER SUBSTANCES CONTRIBUTING FACTORS IN HIS DEATH. THE CASE INVOLVED NATURALLY KRATOM. LIKE MANY FAMILIES WE HAVE
NEVER HEARD OF KRATOM UNTIL INTO OUR LIVES AFTER LOSING ALL. SO I BEGIN RESEARCHING THE SUBSTANCE AND THE POLICY SURROUNDING IT SO AUSTIN CANNOT SPEAK FOR HIMSELF TODAY I ASK THE COUNCIL TO CONSIDER HIS
STORY CAREFULLY AS YOU DECIDE WHETHER THESE PRODUCTS SHOULD CONTINUE TO BE SOLD IN BOSTON, THE PRIMARY ALKALOIDS IN KRATOM INTERACT WITH THE SAME U OPIOID RECEPTORS ASSOCIATED WITH TRADITIONAL OPIOID DRUGS.
PRODUCTS CONTAINING OPIOID RECEPTOR ACTIVE COMPOUNDS PRESENT RISKS THAT SIMPLE RETAIL REGULATION CANNOT. SO EVEN MY CAT OF THE AMERICAN KRATOM ASSOCIATION STATED
NATURAL DOES NOT MEAN SAFE. THE FDA HAS NOT APPROVED CREDIT FOR ANY MEDICAL USE AND CONTINUES TO WARN THAT IT HAS BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH SERIOUS ADVERSE EVENTS INCLUDING
ADDICTION, TOXICITY AND DEATH. NOTABLY, SEVERAL COUNTRIES WHERE KRATOM NATURALLY GROWS SINGAPORE, MALAYSIA, CAMBODIA, VIETNAM, SOUTH KOREA, JAPAN AND
MY MORE HAVE BANNED OR STRICTLY CONTROLLED IT. THE QUESTION BEFORE THE COUNCIL IS WHETHER BOSTON SHOULD ALLOW TO CONTINUE ALLOWING THE RETAIL SALE OF KRATOM PRODUCTS CONTAINING
THE MU OPIOID RECEPTOR ACTIVE COMPOUNDS PUBLIC HEALTH THE CITIES ARE STRONGEST WHEN THEY FOLLOW THE SCIENCE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. MR GIBBS. THANKS SO MUCH. AND AGAIN, UH, MUCH LIKE MANY
OF OTHER UH, FOLKS WHO TESTIFIED UH OUR CONDOLENCES AND SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS AS WELL. UH, WE ARE HERE TO MAKE YOUR, UM WE'LL FINISH UP IF, UH,
MR FOX. WE CAN CONCLUDE WITH YOU I BELIEVE IF YOU'VE ACCEPTED AS A PANELIST AND GO AHEAD, STEVE. JUST MAKE SURE YOU MUTE OFF. OOPS. >> SORRY. UH.
SORRY ABOUT THAT. UM. THANKS VERY MUCH, COUNCILOR FITZGERALD. UM, AND OTHER COUNCILORS, I APPRECIATE IT. I PARTICULARLY WANT TO THANK THE PANELISTS FOR SORT OF, UM,
LAYING OUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT THAT WE IN THE SOUTH END FACE. SO FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT DON'T KNOW ME, I CHAIR THE SOUTH END FORUM AND ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I WANTED TO TESTIFY TODAY
WAS NOT TO REPEAT MANY OF THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN MADE BY SO MANY UM, ABOUT KRATOM SPECIFICALLY BUT ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE HAVE BECOME
AWARE OF ITS INTRODUCTION TO OUR COMMUNITY BY VIRTUE OF THE CREATION OF LOTS AND LOTS OF SMOKE SHOPS. SO WHILE ON THE ONE HAND I WANT
TO SUPPORT UM ANY EFFORTS TO OUTLAW THIS PARTICULAR DRUG, I ALSO WANT TO CALL THE ATTENTION OF THE COMMITTEE UH COUNCILOR TO THE ISSUE OF THE
CREATION OF THESE SMOKE SHOPS AND THE FACT THAT THEY ARE AS OF RIGHT CREATIONS UNDER THE ZONING CODE AT THE AT THE MOMENT AND WE NOW HAVE I THINK
IT'S 4 OR 5 IN THE SOUTH END ALONE AND THESE BECOME THE VEHICLES AT LEAST THE BRICK AND MORTAR VEHICLES FOR THE DISTRIBUTION OF THESE PRODUCTS.
AND KRATOM IS JUST ONE OF MANY PRODUCTS AND UH FOR PEOPLE LIKE PETER BUTEAU UM, THEY CAN TELL YOU THAT THE HISTORY OF ADDICTION IS ONE OF THE INTRODUCTION OF NEW PRODUCTS
EVERY CYCLE. UM, THAT IS THAT IT DOESN'T REMAIN STATIC. SO WHAT I, I WOULD LIKE TO UM SUGGEST TO THE COMMITTEE THAT
WE LOOK AT THE ISSUE OF AT LEAST THE LICENSING AND THE ZONING AND THE PERMITTING UM, THAT IS DONE BY THE BOSTON PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION FOR UH SMOKE SHOPS IN PARTICULAR AND
MAYBE FOR THE PRODUCTS THAT ARE EVEN SOLD AT CONVENIENT STORES SO THAT WE CAN BEGIN TO GET AHEAD OF THIS ISSUE BEFORE THE NEXT KRATOM, UM, SORT OF FINDS ITS WAY TO OUR. NEIGHBORHOOD STREETS. THANKS VERY MUCH FOR ALLOWING
ME TO TESTIFY. THANK YOU, MR FOX. APPRECIATE IT. AND THAT, UH, CONCLUDES OUR TESTIMONY UH, AT THE MOMENT. SO I WOULD NOW LIKE TO UH I'D
ALSO LIKE TO RECOGNIZE WE'VE BEEN JOINED BY COUNCILOR FLYNN . COUNCILOR WEBER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, UH, COLLEAGUES FOR FOR BEING HERE TODAY. UM, SO I WILL START WE'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU ABOUT FIVE MINUTES
OF QUESTIONS. UM, BUT, UH, AS THE CHAIR I'LL TAKE THE LIBERTY UH, AS ALSO THE MAKER OF THE HEARING, UH, TO SORT OF ASK SOME QUESTIONS FURTHER. UM, THERE WAS SOME POWERFUL
PUBLIC TESTIMONY. RIGHT. UM, AND I THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE, UH, THAT IT SEEMS THAT THERE IS AN ISSUE HERE THAT NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED. WHAT ARE THE STEPS WE NEED TO
TAKE TO BAN THE SALE? AND MAYBE THIS IS, UH, TO YOU DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MCCANN. UM. >> TO BAN THE SALE OF KRATOM AND KRATOM LIKE SUBSTANCES IN ALL STORES IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. >> DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA? SO AS FAR AS THE THE HEARING
ORDER PROPOSES A CITY COUNCIL ORDINANCE WOULD APPEAR. I'M NOT AN. ATTORNEY FOR THE CITY OF BOSTON . UM, BUT I CAN I CAN SAY. SORT OF. >> PROCEDURALLY IF. >> IF ADOPTED BY. UH BY THE COUNCIL.
THAT ORDER TO. UH ADOPT AN ORDINANCE. TO PROHIBIT. WOULD TAKE EFFECT AND COULD BE ENFORCED IN UH. IN THE SAME MANNER AS. AS OTHER CITY ORDINANCES.
I APPRECIATE THAT I, I I THINK ABOUT THE SYNTHETIC CANNABINOID K2 SPACE THAT YOU KNOW AND THAT CAME AROUND BACK IN THE DAY AND REALLY JUST TRYING TO USE THE SAME PLAYBOOK UH, ON THIS
ESSENTIALLY IS WHAT I'M HOPING IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WAS DONE THEN THAT CAN BE DONE NOW FROM THROUGH THE BOSTON PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION WITHOUT THE ORDINANCE. SO THERE ARE OTHER STEPS THAT WE CAN TAKE TO SUPPLEMENT AN OVERALL ORDINANCE.
SO I. PERSONALLY I THINK. UM THE THE. THINGS AROUND THE ORDINANCE CAN BE AS IMPORTANT. AS THE POLICY MECHANISM ITSELF .
I IMAGINE THAT. THE FACT THAT IT WILL MAKE THE. NEWS WILL. GENERATE PUBLIC AWARENESS ABOUT. YOU KNOW, THE TYPES. >> OF STORIES THAT WE'VE BEEN HEARING. TODAY THAT THAT MANY RESIDENTS IN THE CITY MIGHT NOT HAVE
HEARD BEFORE. I THINK THE SORT OF THOSE. LETTERS THAT GO. OUT TO THE RETAILERS WE HAVE 750 OR SO TOBACCO RETAILERS. THERE'S SOME OVERLAP BUT NOT COMPLETE OVERLAP.
>> I'M SURE THERE ARE SORT OF HERBAL WELLNESS STORE TYPE OF RETAILERS THAT ARE ALSO. IN THE SPACE, BUT I THINK THE. THE ACT OF PUTTING UH. RETAILER COMMUNITY ON NOTICE THAT THESE SUBSTANCES ARE NOT
ACCEPTABLE FOR. SALE IN BOSTON UM GETS I THINK. COMPLIANCE FROM MANY OF THEM. WE KNOW FROM TOBACCO CONTROL THAT THERE ARE OTHER UH, SORT OF.
BAD ACTORS. I WILL. SAY THAT THAT NO MATTER HOW. MANY TIMES YOU GO IN WITH A 19 YEAR OLD TO CONFIRM THAT THEY'RE NOT SELLING. TO PEOPLE. >> UNDER 21. YOU'LL CATCH THEM. SO I THINK THERE'S UM.
THE I THINK THE ENFORCEMENT PROCESS. WILL UH I THINK WILL WANT TO. LEARN FROM WHAT HAPPENED WITH. K2 BACK THEN. BUT ALSO I THINK WE CAN UM, HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO BETTER THROUGH COMMUNICATION
AND HOW WE. COMMUNICATE TO BOTH RETAILERS AND. UH. >> PARENTS, KIDS FAMILIES. THAT UH THAT THESE THIS IS NOT SOMETHING YOU PICK UP TO, YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF A DIET COKE IT'S.
UNDERSTOOD SO I WOULD TAKE YOU THINK WE PROBABLY NEED TO HAVE A WORKING SESSION TO COME UP WITH SOME LANGUAGE. WE CAN WORK WITH YOU. ALL TO. >> A WORKING. SESSION ON LANGUAGE FOR AN ORDINANCE AS WE GO FORWARD. IT WOULD BE HELPFUL. I THINK THAT'S APPROPRIATE. JUST YOU KNOW, THERE ARE THERE.
>> ARE A LOT OF. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE ARE SOME LINE DRAWING. QUESTIONS THAT COULD BE RAISED AND SOME NUANCE. ABOUT, YOU KNOW, UH. THE REGULATORY FRAMEWORK IN THE. WORLD AROUND.
YOU KNOW, MASSACHUSETTS LOCALITIES THAT HAVE THINGS CHANGED. >> AT THE STATE. >> IF A STATE LAW THAT. THAT CREATED A MORE NUANCED REGULATORY. FRAMEWORK WERE PASSED, I THINK WE WOULD BE. REQUIRED BY LAW TO. DEFER TO IT. I THINK UH, SIMILARLY.
>> IF. IT WERE SCHEDULED. AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL THAT WOULD CHANGE. >> SO I THINK THE. TRICK WITH. >> DRAFTING WOULD BE JUST MAKING SURE THAT IT'S FUTURE. PROOF AGAINST SOME OF THOSE POLICY CHANGES. >> THAT WE MAY. >> WANT TO SEE BUT UH, BUT AREN'T SEEING IN THE VERY NEAR
FUTURE. GREAT. THANK YOU. UH AND DOCTOR SO GIVEN THE OTHER TOWNS AROUND PAUL NOTED THAT THAT YOU WERE INVOLVED IN WHAT DID YOU SEE THAT WAS THE MOST EFFECTIVE IN TERMS
OF BANNING IT WHETHER AND THE ENFORCEMENT OF IT BECAUSE THE FOLLOW UP IS ALWAYS SOMETIMES WE CAN GET THE ORDINANCE PASSED BUT THE ENFORCEMENT OF 100 HOW IS IT BANNED AND WHAT HAVE YOU WHAT DO YOU SEE NOW IN THERE IN TERMS OF ITS UH, USE?
WELL IN ALL FAIRNESS, UM, SINCE MY RETIREMENT I'M NOT IN THE SAME POSITIONS THAT IT WAS BUT I THINK DEF DEFINITELY THE ISSUE IS THAT YOU CAN PUT IT IN
THE ORDINANCE BUT YOU NEED TO HAVE MORE OF THE EDUCATION AS WELL BECAUSE IF THIS IS BEING SOMETHING THAT THE KIDS CAN PICK UP AS AN ENERGY DRINK ON
THEIR WAY TO LOWELL HIGH OR YOU KNOW DRAKE AT HIGH, YOU'RE NOT HELPING. YOU NEED TO HAVE YES, DEFINITELY PUBLIC HEALTH WITH ENFORCEMENT.
GOING INTO THESE VENUES, GOING INTO THE LIQUOR SHOPS, GOING IN TO THE CONVENIENCE STORES NOT JUST THE TOBACCO SHOPS. I MEAN THIS ALL CAME UP BECAUSE IN THE SOUTH END A WINE STORE
WAS IN PUTTING IT INTO A BASEMENT. RIGHT. UM SO I THINK WE. >> NEED TO BE A BIT MORE. OPEN IN TERMS OF OUR CATCHMENT FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN IN
CHELMSFORD AND LOWELL THEY HAVE TRIED TO DO THIS FOLLOW THROUGH. YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME BECAUSE YOU DO HAVE A LOT OF TRAFFICKER FROM FAMILY MEMBERS WHO ARE OF CAMBODIAN
ANCESTRY OF VIETNAMESE ANCESTRY THAT HAS TO BE MANAGED BEST WHEN WE CAN FINALLY GET THE FDA TO DO SOMETHING AND LIMIT THE LEAF ALTOGETHER. UM, BUT I THINK WHAT'S REALLY INTERESTING IS EVERY ONE
OF THESE PRODUCTS CAME THROUGH A IF A QUOTE UNQUOTE PHARMACY IN LOS ANGELES. SO IF CALIFORNIA HAS JUST INSTITUTED A BAN THAT SHOULD BE INTERESTING HOW THIS ACTUALLY FALLS OUT.
UH, BUT I THINK AT THE LOCAL SECTOR IT'S A COMBINATION OF THE EDUCATION NEEDING TO HAPPEN AND I'M NOT WAITING FOR HIGH SCHOOL. I MEAN YESTERDAY LITERALLY WALKING ON BRAND WALKING IN
FRONT OF BRANDY MELVILLE WAS A LITTLE LITTLE TEENY WEENY YOU KNOW, 11 AND 12 YEAR OLDS TALKING ABOUT MEETING ENERGY DRINKS. YOU KNOW, I KNOW I'M OLD BUT I DON'T REMEMBER NEEDING ENERGY
DRINKS AT THAT AGE MYSELF I AGREE SO I THINK WE NEED TO TARGET THE EDUCATION START IN THE MIDDLE. SCHOOL BECAUSE THE LIVER DAMAGE IS PERMANENT.
AND TO THOSE TWO SPEAKERS WHO HAD THEIR CHILDREN PASSED AWAY FROM A COMBINATION OF A SUPPLEMENT AS IT'S STILL CONSIDERED AND A PRESCRIPTION DRUG, LET'S JUST START WITH
MORE EDUCATION ABOUT THAT BECAUSE TO OUR FELLOW PANELIST PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE SUPPLEMENTS ARE DRUGS ONCE THEY'RE INGESTED THEY ACT CHEMICALLY THERE'S NO
DIFFERENCE AND SO YOU CAN HAVE A CUMULATIVE EFFECT ON YOUR CYTOCHROME P450 WHICH IS WHAT THIS TARGETS AND THEN YOU'RE AMPLIFYING THE ILLNESS SO TO SPEAK.
SO I THINK THAT WAS THE KEY. THEY'VE DONE MORE ON EDUCATION THEY ARE DOING ALSO THE ENFORCEMENT. THANK YOU SO MUCH I THINK MAYBE WE COULD UM WELL I CAN TAKE IT OFFLINE BUT MAYBE BETWEEN UH
BOTH PETER AND PJ WE CAN TALK ABOUT SORT OF A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT EDUCATION AROUND. THIS UH. >> TO TRY AND GET THAT CIRCULATED AS WELL BECAUSE WHEN IT CAME TO ME IT WAS THE FIRST I HEARD OF IT, UH, IN FOLKS IN MY FAMILY AND I KNOW THAT IF
THAT'S THE CASE IT'S PROBABLY SIMILAR ACROSS MANY IN THE CITY. SO, UM, I THINK AN EDUCATION IS A GREAT IDEA. THANK YOU DOCTOR. UH, NOW GO ON TO UH, COUNCILOR FLYNN AS A CO-SPONSOR AND THEN UH, COUNCILOR MURPHY,
YOU'RE IN THE HALL. THANK UH, MR CHAIR, AND THANK YOU TO THE PANEL FOR BEING HERE FOR DOCTOR. >> AND DEPUTY COMMISSIONER. AND TO PETER. AND I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE PETER AND THE GALVIN FOUNDATION FOR
THE INCREDIBLE WORK YOU'RE DOING THROUGHOUT MASSACHUSETTS AND GETTING PEOPLE INTO RECOVERY. UM, AS A AS A PROBATION OFFICER FOR EIGHT YEARS I WORKED CLOSELY WITH THE GAVIN HOUSE
AND OTHER FACILITIES RESIDENTIAL FACILITIES IN GETTING PEOPLE INTO TREATMENT, GETTING THEM INTO UM A DRUG TREATMENT PROGRAM. IT'S PEOPLE LIKE PETER AND SO
MANY SO MANY OTHERS THAT, UH, NEVER GAVE UP ON BOSTON RESIDENTS ESPECIALLY DURING THEIR DARKEST HOURS AND TRIED TO GIVE THEM HOPE THROUGH FOR RECOVERY.
UM, WHEN I WAS A PROBATION OFFICER THERE WAS SOMETHING AND I KNOW IT WAS REFERENCE TO IS CALLED K TWO SPACE. UM I DON'T IF THAT WAS THE SAME
THING BUT UM IT WAS IT WAS UNREGULATED AND WHICH MEANS YOU COULD YOU COULD LEGALLY USE IT. UM BUT IT WAS VERY DANGEROUS.
UM AND MANY OF MY PROBATIONERS WERE ON K2 AND THEY WERE ON OTHER DRUGS AS WELL AND THEY WERE THEY WERE MIXING A LOT OF DRUGS. BUT WHAT I WHY I REFERENCE THAT
IS THIS THIS NEW DRUG UH, NOT NEW DRUG BUT KRATOM THAT'S BEING SOLD LEGALLY IN THE SOUTH AND IS ALSO BEING SOLD IN SOUTH BOSTON IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD IN THE BACK BAY AND OTHER OTHER
AREAS ACROSS THE CITY. WHEN I WAS A PROBATION OFFICER I ALSO SAW MANY PEOPLE TRYING TO BEAT THE DRUG TESTING THAT I WAS SUPERVISING THEM.
AND IF YOU WEREN'T WATCHING SOMEONE 100% OF THE TIME GIVE THE SAMPLE. UM THERE WAS A STRONG CHANCE THAT THEY WERE TRYING TO BEAT
THE BEAT THE TEST. BUT MANY OF THESE PLACES THAT YOU SEE SMOKE SHOPS SELL PARTICULAR PRODUCTS THAT WILL HELP YOU BEAT A DRUG TEST.
UM, WITHOUT WITHOUT GETTING INTO THE SPECIFICS. I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THIS DRUG BEING LEGALLY SOLD.
I WAS GLAD TO PARTNER WITH COUNCILOR FITZGERALD ON THIS. I DO WANT TO WORK WITH COUNCIL FITZGERALD AND WITH OTHER COLLEAGUES IN WORKING ON AN ORDINANCE TO BAN THIS DRUG
AND TO ENSURE IT'S NOT LEGAL TO BUY IT HERE IN BOSTON. THAT'S THAT'S JUST A START. WE REALLY HAVE TO BAN A STATEWIDE FOR IT TO BE EFFECTIVE BECAUSE IF IT'S IF
YOU CAN LEGALLY BUY IT IN A NEIGHBORING TOWN OUTSIDE OF BOSTON, UH, THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH IMPACT WE CAN HAVE. BUT HAVING SAID THAT, THE STATUS QUO IS NOT AN OPTION.
WE HAVE TO BAN IT HERE IN BOSTON. WANT TO WORK WITH CITY COUNCIL COLLEAGUES TO TAKE THAT NEXT STEP FORWARD? UM, BUT WHAT PEOPLE NEED WHEN
THEY'RE ON THIS DRUG, UM, IS DRUG TREATMENT. THEY NEED HELP. THEY NEED SUPPORT, BUT THEY DON'T NEED A GOVERNMENT TO MAKE A PRODUCT LEGAL FOR THEM.
IF SOMETHING LEGAL THERE'S ALMOST A ALMOST PERMISSION THAT YOU GIVE THAT THIS PRODUCT IS OKAY. IF IT'S SOLD LEGALLY THEN IT MUST BE OKAY BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN SOME GOVERNMENT
REGULATIONS AND THAT'S NOT THE CASE AND I BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOT DONE THEIR JOB AND WE NEED TO DO OUR JOB ENSURING PEOPLE THAT ARE USING
THIS DRUG ARE UH, GET THE TREATMENT THAT THEY NEED BUT ALSO FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC ON HOW DANGEROUS THIS IS. AND WE JUST HEARD FROM WONDERFUL PEOPLE THAT LOST A
LOVED ONE. UH, THAT TESTIMONY IS IS STRONG IS POWERFUL AND IF WE REMAIN SILENT AND DO NOTHING, UH,
THERE'S GOING TO BE MORE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO OVERDOSE UNFORTUNATELY. UM. MAYBE MAYBE LET ME JUST ASK PETER, UH, ONE QUICK QUESTION. UM.
PETER, WHEN WHEN PEOPLE ARE USING THIS THIS DRUG ILLEGALLY ,UM, AND THEY TEST POSITIVE FOR FENTANYL. UM, HOW HOW DO YOU HOW DO YOU
FIGURE THAT PART? I IT'S THAT WAS FIRST I HAD HEARD OF IT. WE DON'T. IT HASN'T. SCREENED AS. POSITIVE ON ANYTHING. THERE'S A SPECIAL DRUG TEST THAT WE WOULD.
NEED TO ORDER TO LOOK AT. AND YOU KNOW, IN PREPARATION FOR THIS HEARING WHEN I INITIALLY TALKED TO COUNCILOR FITZGERALD, I MADE SOME PHONE CALLS AS AROUND INDIVIDUALS THAT WORK ON
EMPLOYEE ASSISTANCE AND OVERSEE ,UM, YOU KNOW, SAFETY SENSITIVE WORK. ENVIRONMENTS. >> RIGHT. FEDERAL D.O.T. WHERE THERE'S MANDATORY DRUG TESTING REQUIREMENTS AND THEY'RE
STRUGGLING FOR THAT REASON BECAUSE IT'S UNDETECTABLE. OKAY. >> AND I'M TALKING PUBLIC SAFETY NEAR AND DEAR TO OUR HEARTS AND NEAR AND DEAR TO WHERE WE SIT RIGHT HERE. UM TRANSIT AUTHORITY AND
ANYTHING THAT HAS D.O.T. OVERSIGHT WHERE THERE'S MANDATORY DRUG TESTING REQUIREMENTS, YOU KNOW, AND PEOPLE TRYING TO BEAT THE SYSTEM. RIGHT? RIGHT, RIGHT. JUST LIKE YOU'VE REFERENCED YOU
KNOW, BECAUSE WE SHARED A LOT OF THE SAME INDIVIDUALS AS YOU AS YOU MENTIONED. UM, SO JUST LIKE HATE TO RIGHT . UH, IT'S WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF SIMILARITIES. LIKE COUNCILOR FITZGERALD SAID
,YOU KNOW. IT'S IT'S BEEN UNDETECTABLE THAT OUR YOU KNOW, SPECIALIZED TESTS THAT YOU CAN ORDER. UM, BUT THEY'RE EXPENSIVE NOT ALWAYS COVERED. RIGHT. UM.
>> YOU KNOW, WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS AS WE'VE REFERENCED BY SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DEEMED TO BE QUITE HORRIFIC. WELL, WELL, LET ME LET ME JUST ASK ONE FINAL QUESTION.
YEAH. UM, CAN CAN ANYONE HEAR OF TELL US TELL THE PUBLIC WHAT ARE THE WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS FOR, UH, PEOPLE USING THIS DRUG AND. YOU TEST WHEN YOU.
TEST YOU MIGHT TEST POSITIVE. >> FOR FENTANYL, WHICH IS A IS ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL DRUGS AROUND. BUT WHAT ARE THE IT'S ALMOST VERY DIFFICULT TO GET OFF OF FENTANYL BUT WHAT IS THE UH
WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS RELATED TO UM THIS DRUG? IT'S THE SAME EXACT ONES AS YOU HAVE WITHIN THE OPIOID. THERE ARE NO DIFFERENCE. THERE'S NO YOU. HAVE THE NAUSEA, YOU HAVE THE VOMITING, YOU HAVE THE DIARRHEA .
YOU HAVE THE INCREDIBLE PAIN. YOU HAVE THE CRAVING. YOU HAVE THE SWEATS. UH, YOU CAN GET TO THE POINT WHERE YOU'RE HAVING EVEN RESPIRATORY ISSUES. THERE IS NO DISTINCTION.
IT'S THE SAME AS YOU WOULD WITH MORPHINE, WITH HYDROCODONE WITH OXY. THEY'RE ALL THE SAME BECAUSE IT'S THE SAME RECEPTORS. IT'S THE SAME THEY THIS THESE
AGENTS TARGET THE SAME RECEPTORS THAT THE OTHER OPIOIDS DO THE MU AND KAPPA. SO YOUR BODY KNOWS NO DIFFERENCE IT DOESN'T DELINEATE UM NATURAL VERSUS AND SYNTHETIC
. IT JUST KNOWS THAT THIS RECEPTOR GOT HIT WITH SOMETHING THAT'S THREE TIMES MORE POWERFUL AND MORPHINE AND NOW YOU'RE GOING TO NOT HAVE IT
RIGHT. SO YOU KNOW GENERALLY BETWEEN DOES AND OPIOID USE DISORDER. SO THE WITHDRAWAL MANAGEMENT YOU KNOW IN UH IN A DETOX
COUNSELOR WOULD BE BASICALLY UH OPIOID TITRATION RIGHT. RIGHT. MEDICATION FOR OPIOID USE DISORDER WOULD BE OFFERED YOU KNOW IN THAT SITUATION SO RIGHT
YEAH IT'S IT'S IT'S THE SAME IT'S NOT THE SAME. >> WELL THANK YOU AND I'M OUT OF TIME I WANT TO BE RESPECTFUL TO MY COLLEAGUES. MR CHAIR I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. >> UH, AND WE'LL MOVE ON TO AARON MURPHY. BUT I JUST WANT TO ADD ONE MORE
QUICK QUESTION. SOMEONE I SPOKE TO SAID THE THE COMPOUND WHEN IT IS CONSUMED UH THEN WILL AUTOMATICALLY CHANGE ONCE CONSUMED AND THEREFORE
THAT'S WHY TESTING FOR IT IT COMES BACK RIGHT. I THINK WHEN YOU TEST FORWARD IT COMES OUT DIFFERENTLY THAN THE WAY IT WENT IN AND SO IS THAT THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT HARD. DO YOU GUYS HAVE THAT SAME UNDERSTANDING AND I JUST WANT. TO YEAH YEAH.
YEAH NO OKAY YEAH THAT'S THAT'S PART OF IT. GOTCHA. >> THANK YOU, COUNCILOR MURPHY . THANK YOU. UM, THANK YOU TO. BOTH OF YOU FOR FILING THIS. I THINK WE'RE JUST AT THE BEGINNING OF SOME ADVOCACY HERE
. UM, I WANT TO THANK THE FOLKS WHO GAVE SOME VERY MOVING TESTIMONY. THANK YOU FOR SHARING. SUCH PERSONAL STORIES. UM. AND YOUR PACKET IS VERY INFORMATIVE.
IT LOOKS LIKE WE ALREADY HAVE 20 TOWNS AND CITIES IN THE STATE THAT HAVE BANDED. I'M HOPING WITH US WORKING TOGETHER HERE ON THE COUNCIL WE CAN BE THE 21ST. UM SO THAT'S IMPORTANT.
UM AND THANK YOU TO THE PANELISTS PJM DOCTOR STELLA AND PETER. YOU YOU TALKED ABOUT YOU KNOW, YOUR JOURNEY AND WHEN JOHN
MCGANN STEPPED DOWN I KNOW MANY OF US WERE WORRIED BUT HE DEFINITELY PICKED YOU KNOW, UH, THE BEST PERSON FOR THAT ROLE AND AS YOU KNOW YOU KNOW, YOU WERE THE PERSON WHO PICKED UP THE CALL WHEN I NEEDED THAT IN
2014. SO YOU HAD, YOU KNOW, YOUR TIME AT THE GAVIN MY SON HAD HIS TIME AND NOW 12 YEARS LATER IS . >> IN A GOOD PLACE. SO I'LL ALWAYS BE THANKFUL TO YOU AND ALL THAT YOU ALWAYS HAVE DONE FOR PEOPLE WHO NEED
IT MOST. SO THANK YOU FOR AND YOU UM THE TEST YOUR TESTIMONY REALLY COVERED ALL OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND MEDICAL EVIDENCE. THANK YOU FOR SHARING SUCH UM
INFORMATIVE INFORMATION THERE. BUT IF YOU COULD JUST TOUCH MORE ON THAT WE KNOW THAT IT'S UNREGULATED I THINK I HEARD LIKE IT COMES UP UV-C LED AND
OTHERS ARE THERE OTHER TRACES OF DANGEROUS SUBSTANCES THAT COME UP AND THIS. >> IS SYNTHETIC? LIKE THE THE CHALLENGE COUNSELOR IS. THAT BECAUSE IT'S UNREGULATED WE WE DON'T KNOW THERE HAVE
BEEN CASES OF SALMONELLA POISONING. IT'S ALSO. CHALLENGING TO SORT OF DO THE TYPE OF RECALL YOU MIGHT DO WITH A CONSUMER PRODUCT IF IT'S NOT A REGULATED CONSUMER
PRODUCT. UM, SO I WILL SAY THAT THE FACT THAT IT EXISTS IN THIS GRAY AREA WHERE IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, SOLD AS A FOOD AND LICENSED DOESN'T THERE'S NO WAY THAT
REGULATED BY THE FDA AS AN EFFECTIVE TREATMENT. SO I THINK THAT IS UH THAT IS A CHALLENGE THAT WE'LL ALWAYS SEE SO LONG AS THESE PRODUCTS ARE IN THE GRAY AREA.
AND THE YOUTH ACCESS. IS ALWAYS. SCARY WHEN I SEE KIDS, YOU KNOW, EVEN AT THE COFFEE SHOP IN FRONT OF ME GETTING LIKE A DOUBLE RED BULL SOMETHING OR OTHER UM, LIKE YOU SAID, I HAD
MAYBE CHOCOLATE MILK EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE IF MY MOM WAS IN A GOOD MOOD. BUT IT IS SCARY THOUGH AND THE EDUCATION PIECE I THINK WE COULD WORK ON THIS BODY ALSO I KNOW I'VE SPOKEN WITH YOU KNOW
SCHOOL NURSES IS JUST AROUND VAPING AND SO MANY OTHER THINGS. SO THE EDUCATION PIECE WHEN WE SEE LIKE YOU SAID 11 AND 12 YEAR OLDS BUYING AND GOING INTO THESE STORES AND HAVING ACCESS
OFTENTIMES WE SAY YOU KNOW WE HAVE THESE IDEAS BUT THERE NEEDS TO BE A LOT OF SUPPORT FOR LIKE NURSES AND OTHERS WHERE YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SEEING THE KIDS AND NOTICING THE SIDE EFFECTS. SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT ALSO
AS PARENTS AND EDUCATORS LIKE WHAT ARE WE LOOKING FOR? AND I KNOW COUNCILOR FLYNN KIND OF TOUCHED ON THAT AND IT'S LIKE WHAT SHOULD A PARENT BE LOOKING FOR? WHAT SHOULD A TEACHER A SCHOOL NURSE BE LOOKING FOR AT THOSE YOUNGEST AGES?
AND THEN WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE ADULTS WHO DON'T. REALIZE THE IMPLICATION. OF IT. >> UM, YOU WALKED INTO IT SEEM YOU KNOW, LIKE MANY JUST STORES BUT DO WE HAVE DATA EVEN THOUGH
IT'S NOT NEEDED TO BE REGULATED YET WHERE IT'S PRIMARILY SOLD LIKE IS. IT LIKE. ALL CONVENIENCE STORES LIKE IT SEEMS LIKE. SO I CAN SHARE THAT UM AGAIN
BUT OUR TOBACCO CONTROL UM INSPECTORS ARE IN ABOUT 750 UH ,STORES THAT HAVE A LICENSE WITH US TO SELL TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND WE SORT OF HAVE
INFORMALLY HAD THEM, YOU KNOW, START TO MONITOR FOR SOME OF THESE GRAY MARKET ISSUES SUCH AS NITROUS AND AND STUFF. AND SO YEAH, I THINK THAT DATA WILL BE GETTING BETTER BUT I
THINK WE ALL KNOW IT'S IT'S A THE TARGET IS MOVING AND EVEN IF YOU GO IN AND YOU DON'T SEE IT ABOVE THE COUNTER A LOT OF TIMES THE THINGS THAT ARE. BELOW THERE THERE ARE OTHER
THINGS BELOW THE COUNTER. SO YOU REALLY DO NEED TO UM I THINK THE WAY I THINK ABOUT OUR TOBACCO CONTROL RETAILERS HERE COULD BE THAT WE REGULARLY DO WHEN WE SEE A PRODUCT THAT WE
KNOW TO BE ILLEGAL REFER IT TO BD OR ISD AND YOU KNOW, AN INSPECTING UM AGENCY. SO I THINK THAT COMMUNICATION ABOUT ESPECIALLY IF IT'S A CHAIN WE KNOW THAT THIS WHOLE CHAIN OF.
STORES IS LIKELY CARRYING THIS. UM. >> YOU KNOW, I THINK CERTAIN THINGS LIKE A CEASE AND DESIST TO THE OWNER OF THAT CHAIN COULD BE APPROPRIATE. BUT I. >> THINK. THOSE ARE ALL DETAILS. UH, I'D BE HAPPY TO TALK ABOUT AND, UH, YOU KNOW, FURTHER
PLANNING AND AND THEN SHE TELLS, YOU KNOW. THANK YOU. WHAT WOULD WE SAY? BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE HAVE ARGUED AND MANY OF YOU MENTIONED IT IN YOUR STATEMENTS BUT THAT THEY ARGUE THAT IT HELPS REDUCE
OPIATE USE, THAT THERE IS A BENEFIT TO IT LIKE HOW DO WE PUSH BACK ON YOU KNOW, THE THAT IT'S OUTWEIGHED BY THE NEGATIVE IMPACTS ON SO MANY? I DO WANT TO DEFER TO THE
DOCTOR BUT I WILL I WILL FIRST SAY THAT I THINK FIRST THAT THERE ARE PROVEN UM, MEDICATED ASSISTANT MEDICATION ASSISTED TREATMENTS THAT ARE AVAILABLE
SUBOXONE AND UM AND YOU KNOW, A STRONG NETWORK IN BOSTON OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, STANDING READY TO HELP PEOPLE THROUGH THAT PATH AND
AND SO WE WOULD OF COURSE ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO UM, TO TRY THAT AS A FIRST COURSE. UM AND I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT IT HASN'T BEEN PROVEN TO BE
EFFECTIVE BY ANY REGULATORY BODY FOR FOR THIS. SO I THINK WE UM WITH WITH THE STATE OF THE SCIENCE AS IT CURRENTLY IS, OUR POSITION
WOULD BE TO ENGAGE WITH YOU KNOW START WE START START WITH TWO ONE PATHS AND UM AND WORK WORK. SORT OF THROUGH THE RIGHT LEGAL AND PROVEN TREATMENT. >> WE CAN SAFELY SAY WE HAVE A
LOT OF OTHER AVENUES. RIGHT. YOU KNOW THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY WE'RE LEAVING PEOPLE OUT THERE. WITHOUT OTHER RESOURCES. OKAY. THANK YOU. UM THANK YOU CHAIR. THANK YOU AND LET'S TALK. DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THAT?
NO, I WAS JUST GOING TO BASICALLY AFFIRM THAT GIVEN THAT WE HAVE MUCH BETTER PROVEN ALGORITHMS THAT HAVE WORKED FOR DECADES TO GO AND TAKE
SOMETHING BECAUSE YOU HEARD FROM SOMEONE THAT THIS WORKS? NO. CAN'T ADVISE IT AT ALL. NO. WE'VE GOT SO MUCH BETTER. ALL RIGHT. >> GREAT AWESOME. THANK YOU. >> AND THANK YOU. COUNCIL COUNCILOR CULPEPPER.
THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. UH. >> DEPUTY MCCANN, ARE. >> YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE LETTER FROM THE DEA? FROM THE DEA FROM TIMMONS CO? I HAVEN'T REVIEWED IT RECENTLY.
HAVE YOU, DOCTOR? NO. >> I. HAVE NOT. OH, IT WAS A LETTER THAT, UH, TERRENCE COLE RESPONDED TO REQUEST TO CONSIDER IT UNDER
THE CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES ACT AND WHAT THEY WANTED WAS THE MY REGINA SPECIAL SIR, THAT'S THE MAIN CHEMICAL IN THE KRATOM, RIGHT?
YEAH. WELL, IT'S ALSO THE IT'S THE NAME FOR THE EVERGREEN LEAF. RIGHT? >> RIGHT. >> IT'S THAT'S THE LEAF THAT'S. >> IN THE CRATER. YOU'VE GOT WHICH IS LATER ON IS THE TWO ALKALOIDS. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
FOR THE ADDICTION ISSUE. BUT THAT NAME IS ACTUALLY THE GENUS AND SPECIES FOR THE EVERGREEN RIGHT. AND SO THEY SUBMITTED A REQUEST TO HAVE THAT CONSIDERED AND THE
THE CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES ACT BECAUSE RIGHT NOW A DATE IS LISTED IT HAS A DRUG AND CHEMICAL OF CONCERN. YEAH. >> AND SO I GUESS MY QUESTION WAS UH IN THE RESPONSE
ADMINISTRATOR COLE DENIED EVEN BEGINNING PROCEEDINGS TO CONSIDER UNDER THE CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES ACT. AND I WANTED TO ASK YOU IF YOU
KNEW A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY EVEN DENIED CONSIDERING IT AND INITIATING PROCEEDINGS TO CONSIDER IT AND THEN A CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE. MAY SO. COUNSELOR, I YOU KNOW, I
CANNOT. SPECULATE ABOUT THAT YOU KNOW THAT COURSE OF DECISION MAKING BUT I DO THINK YOU KNOW WHEN ASKED WHAT THE WHAT AN IDEAL REGULATORY FRAMEWORK MIGHT LOOK
LIKE, I THINK IT WOULD BE THAT THAT SORT OF UM BROADLY THE THE SUBSTANCE IS SCHEDULED UNLESS AND UNTIL THERE ARE THERAPEUTIC USES THAT ARE FOUND TO BE SAFE
AND EFFECTIVE THROUGH THE FDA. AND THAT'S SORT OF THE YOU'RE EITHER IN ONE CATEGORY OR ANOTHER AND YOU'RE NOT OUT HERE AND IN NEITHER CATEGORY AND SORT.
OF ENJOYING THE BENEFITS OF BEING LEGAL WITHOUT AND AND MAKING SCIENTIFIC CLAIMS ABOUT ABOUT WHAT THE SUBSTANCES DO. SO UNFORTUNATELY I CAN'T. SPECULATE ABOUT THE THE.
POLITICS OR THE. ADMINISTRATIVE THINKING BEHIND. THAT DECISION THOUGH. I DO THINK A STRONGER FEDERAL RESPONSE COULD. >> BE HELPFUL. HAVE YOU SEEN THAT LETTER? IT'S IN THE PACKETS.
I HAVEN'T SEEN THE LETTER, BUT I DO KNOW THAT THE FDA IN DECEMBER ISSUED A 46 PAGE UM, SUPPLEMENT AND I PROVIDED THAT INFORMATION AHEAD OF TIME THAT RESOURCE INFORMATION AHEAD
OF TIME IN WHICH THEY REVIEW ALL OF THE UH, SCIENCE THAT THEY HAVE THUS FAR, UH, AND ACTUALLY ARE TRYING TO GET THIS
UNDER CSA UH ACT PASSED. BUT I'M NOT I HAVE NOT SEEN THE ACTUAL LETTER IN THAT PACKET. YEAH THAT YOU MAY WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT. THE OTHER THING WITH THAT WITH REGARD TO THE SENIORS THAT
YOUTH THAT USE THOSE LEAVES THE KRATOM LEAVES UM HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY WERE CREATING LEAVES? WELL I HAD THESE WERE UH, CAMBODIAN PATIENTS. I WORKED IN THE COMMUNITY.
I HAD TRANSLATORS IN MY OFFICE AND SO IT WAS TYPICALLY UH UM OBVIOUSLY GYNECOLOGISTS FEMALES PATIENTS AND UH, THE TRANSLATOR
WOULD SAY THAT THEY WERE USING THE LEAF HOW THEY PREPARED IT, STEEP IT AND HAVE THE DRINK. IT WASN'T NECESSARILY A DAILY THING EITHER. THIS WAS MORE WHEN THEY WERE
HAVING MORE DISCOMFORT, WHEN THEY WERE FEELING MORE NERVE OR FATIGUE OR TIRED. THIS WAS A LITTLE PICK ME UP THAT THEY WOULD HAVE. COULDN'T HAVE BEEN PEPPERMINT LEAF COULD DURING THE SUMMER. LOOK I GREW A LOT OF PEPPERMINT
IN THE YARD. I DRY IT OUT. UH UM I HAVE PEPPERMINT TEA WITH THE LEAVES THAT I'VE GROWN SO COULDN'T HAVE BEEN PEPPERMINT TEA. WELL, I'M JUST WORKING. >> WITH WHAT I WAS BEING TOLD
VIA THE TRANSLATOR THAT THIS WAS NATIVE TO THEM IN CAMBODIA AND THAT THIS IS THE TEA AND THEY DIDN'T USE THE WORD KRATOM. UM, THEY HAVE I GUESS ANOTHER
TERM FOR IT AND UM BUT THAT'S WHAT IT TRANSLATED TO UH BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I WAS BEING TOLD BY THE TRANSLATORS. CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT KRATOM . USE DISORDER IS? I THINK KRATOM USE DISORDER IS
THE SAME THING AS SUBSTANCE ABUSE DISORDER. IT IS BEING BASICALLY AN OPIOID USE DISORDER AND IT'S JUST A MATTER OF WHICH CHOICE DRUG ARE YOU USING. BUT IT'S REALLY THAT'S WHAT
IT'S UNDER. AND THERE ARE THOSE THAT USE THIS TO TREAT OPIOID USE DISORDER. YES AND THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT. WHY WOULD YOU USE THIS WHEN
YOU'VE GOT SO MANY OTHER RESOURCES AVAILABLE TO YOU THROUGH PUBLIC HEALTH THROUGH INSTITUTIONS? IS THE GOVERNANCE THROUGH YOUR LOCAL HOSPITAL WHICH ALWAYS HAS
MANY TRAINED PROFESSIONALS? WHY WOULD YOU GO ON AN OFF LABEL PRODUCT TRUSTING IN THAT WHERE THERE IS NO. NO REAL QUALITY ASSURANCE
VARIABILITY IN THE AMOUNT YOU'RE TAKING? YOU KNOW, UNLESS YOU'RE A CHEMIST YOURSELF, HOW ARE YOU ACTUALLY DEVELOPING HOW MUCH YOU'RE GOING TO TRANSFORM OF THIS LEAF INTO YOUR METABOLITE?
I MEAN IT JUST SEEMS THAT WE HAVE MUCH SAFER AND MORE SUPPORTIVE WAYS OF AVOIDING, UH, THE WITHDRAWAL AND GETTING
BACK YOUR LIFE WITHOUT HAVING TO USE AN. OFF PRODUCT. AND THAT'S PART OF THE DANGER OF THE USE OF KRATOM WHEN THEY MAKE AN ATTEMPT TO USE IT FOR
THE OPIUM USE DISORDER. WELL. >> I THINK ALL YOU'RE DOING IS SUBSTITUTING ONE DRUG FOR ANOTHER. >> ONE ANOTHER. I MEAN I PERSONALLY KNOW SOMEONE WHOSE 30 ODD YEAR OLD SON WAS STARTED OUT WITH AS A
FOOTBALL PLAYER GOT INJURED IN UNIVERSITY UH, GOD GIVEN PAINKILLERS FOR ALL THE VARIOUS OPERATIONS AND ENDED UP BEING A QUITE SUCCESSFUL HAPPILY
MARRIED WITH CHILDREN BUT ON HEROIN AND. YOU KNOW MANAGED TO SUCCESSFULLY THROUGH THE SYSTEMS THAT EXIST IN OUR STATE GET OFF THE HEROIN BUT NOW HE'S
HOOKED ON KRATOM. AND SO ONE. FINAL QUESTION I LOOKED AT SOME OF THE STATS AND SAID 66% UH OF USERS MEET THE CRITERIA FOR
KRATOM USE DISORDER. YEAH. WHAT'S THAT CRITERIA? I'M NOT SURE SPECIFICALLY OKAY . UM. >> AS TO THAT STUDY THAT YOU QUOTED I DON'T KNOW IT I DON'T KNOW WHETHER MY PANELISTS. KNOW WHAT.
I WOULD SUSPECT. A KEY PRONG IS SORT OF DIFFICULTY IN STOPPING. YEAH, I THINK THAT'S SORT OF THE THE LOWEST BAR OF I THINK YOU HEAR THE. STORIES FROM. YEAH.
>> FREQUENCY OF USE. RIGHT. I MEAN SO AS A RESULT OF UH AN ASSESSMENT DONE BY A CLINICIAN THEY WOULD. GET INTO THOSE FACTS RIGHT? EACH OF REVIEWS. HISTORY OF SUBSTANCE USE.
FREQUENCY OF USE. YOU KNOW THIS UPON YOU KNOW, TRY AND WIN OFF OF A SYMPTOM OF DIFFICULTY WITH SYMPTOMS. THE SAME THINGS YOU WOULD SEE WITH OPIOID. CHANGE.
AND SO THESE 21 CITIES THAT HAVE BANNED IT I SEE A COUPLE OF CITIES THERE'S A FINAL VOTE IN WINCHESTER ON MARCH 23RD THAT'S COMING OUT THE FINAL
VOTE TO BAN IT IN APRIL IN WAKEFIELD. AND CAN YOU GIVE US SOME MORE INFORMATION ON THE MARCH 23RD
AND APRIL VOTE JUST IN CASE WE MIGHT WANT TO GO SEE AND HEAR SOME OF THE TESTIMONY THAT THEY PRESENTED FOR THAT FINAL VOTE THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL. I COUNCIL. >> I WOULD BE HAPPY TO SHARE THAT. I'D ALSO BE HAPPY TO SHARE.
UM, I THINK A LOT OF THE CITIES AND TOWNS THAT HAVE CONSIDERED BANS HAVE RECEIVED ADVICE FROM THE MASSACHUSETTS ASSOCIATION OF HEALTH BOARDS. I THINK SOME OF THOSE MAY BE RECORDED, BUT AT THE VERY LEAST THERE ARE SLIDE DECKS FROM
THOSE PRESENTATIONS. UM, BUT AGAIN. >> WOULD BE. >> HAPPY TO SHARE THOSE BACKGROUND MATERIALS AND INFORMATION. ABOUT THE UPCOMING YEAR. THANK YOU. THANK YOU COUNCILOR I APPRECIATE IT. UH, COUNCILOR DURKIN.
OKAY. >> OH YEAH. >> YEAH YEAH. TAKE YOUR TIME. SO, UH, WHAT SHE'S JUST HANDING OUT IS WHAT WAS HANDED OUT. SO AS PREVIOUSLY SHE WILL NEED THOSE BACK. BUT JUST FOR REFERENCE, IN THIS MOMENT YOU GUYS CAN TAKE A LOOK THROUGH THOSE. THANK YOU. UH, DURKIN. >> EUROPE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH, CHAIR. AND I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR AND COUNCILOR FLYNN'S LEADERSHIP ON THIS ISSUE. UM, DEEPLY CONCERNED THAT, UM, THIS WAS BEING SOLD IN MY DISTRICT THIS MORNING.
SO, UM, LITERALLY BLOCKS AWAY FROM THE SNOWDEN THAT IS DEEPLY CONCERNING. >> TO ME AND I'M READING, UM, THAT NORTHAMPTON WHERE I USED TO LIVE I WENT TO SMITH COLLEGE
UM, HAS DEQ THEIR PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION DECLARED THIS SUBSTANCE BAN. I'M JUST CURIOUS IF THE CITY CONSIDERED A SIMILAR UM, YOU
KNOW, BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE UM, THAT WITH A STROKE OF A PEN THAT THE CITY COULD BAN THIS. WELL, I I WILL SAY THAT I THINK
THEIR. STRUCTURE OF THEIR BOARD OF HEALTH MAY. BE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THAN. THAN THE. >> STRUCTURE OF THE BOSTON PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION. I THINK IF THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS THE FASTEST. PATH TO. UH. >> A POLICY CHANGE HERE?
I THINK GIVEN THAT WE ARE SITTING HERE TODAY IN A IN A PUBLIC HEARING AND THAT THE COUNCIL HAS I BELIEVE AGAIN NOT NOT PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE BUT
I BELIEVE SIMILAR UH, STANDARD LEGAL STANDING TO ADOPT A POLICY ON THIS ISSUE THAT UM, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS A WORKING SESSION AS UH SUGGESTED AND
THEN INTRODUCING I, I. I GUESS I'M JUST CURIOUS ARE WE LIKE IS THE PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION HAVE THE LEGAL ABILITY TO BAN SUBSTANCES? I WOULD NEED TO TAKE THAT QUESTION BACK TO OUR.
OUR OTHER ATTORNEYS. BUT YEAH I. BROADLY I THINK BOTH THE CITY COUNCIL AND THE AND THE UM BOARD OF HEALTH BOTH HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO TO BAN I GUESS
WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT I THINK OUR OUR PROCESS AND AND THE WAY WE TYPICALLY. YOU'RE SAYING IF THE WILL IS HERE THE COUNCIL SHOULD BAN THIS. I'M NOT ADVISING THE. COUNCIL WHAT TO DO. I JUST SORT TO SAY A BIT MORE
ABOUT OUR PROCESS. IT HAS SORT OF SPECIFIED NUMBER OF DAYS THAT NOTICES HAVE TO BE PUBLISHED ONLINE UH IN PERSON HEARINGS AND THEN IN PERSON AND THEN. UH WRITTEN.
PUBLIC COMMENT PERIODS AND. THEN INTRODUCED AND PUT. >> IT. ON AT UM. >> AT BOARD OF HEALTH MEETINGS. SO THAT'S JUST TO SAY IT'S UH A LONGER AND IN SOME CASES UH LESS CERTAIN. UH. >> REGULATORY PROCESS THAN THAN AN ORDINANCE.
SO YEAH, THOSE ARE JUST SOME OF THE DIFFERENCES IN THE FEATURES OF THE PROCESS. GOT IT. YEAH LIKE RELATIVE TO WHAT YOU DO VERSUS LIKE WHAT. >> THE COUNCIL WOULD DO. UM I'M JUST CURIOUS AS WELL I
MEAN I FIND IT DEEPLY CONCERNING THAT THERE'S THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT IS UNDER THE SHELVES VERSUS WHAT IS ON THE SHELF LIKE GIVEN ANY SUBSTANCE. UM AND I THINK THAT REQUIRES
OUR DUE DILIGENCE IN FIGURING OUT HOW WE CAN FIX THAT FROM A LICENSING AND PERMITTING, UM, STANDPOINT BECAUSE I ACTUALLY FIND THAT DEEPLY CONCERNING THAT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IS WITHIN THE SHELVES.
UM, BECAUSE I IMAGINE THERE ARE OTHER SUBSTANCES AND THIS IS SORT OF WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS THAT UM IT'S CREATE THEM TODAY. IT'S SOMETHING ELSE TOMORROW BECAUSE WE ARE CONSTANTLY
HAVING THERE'S A DELUGE OF UM OFF MARKET SUBSTANCES THAT SPRING UP IN ORDER TO MEET THE NEED OF DRUG ADDICTS WHEN THEIR THEIR DRUG OF CHOICE BECOMES
HARD TO FIND. AND THIS IS DEEPLY PERSONAL FOR ME AS SOMEONE WHO GREW UP IN AA MEETINGS WITH MY FAMILY MEMBERS UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN I PETER YOUR STORY ABOUT YOUR FRIEND, UM,
YOU KNOW, MY OWN FAMILY'S HISTORY OF RECOVERY REALLY? THAT STRUCK ME AS REALLY DEEPLY SAD, UM, THAT SOMEONE COULD PICK OUT SOMETHING ON A SHELF AND NOT REALIZE THAT IT WOULD
SET THEM BACK, UM, IN THEIR RECOVERY. UM, WE KNOW THAT, UM, RECOVERY IS DAILY. IT'S WEEKLY, IT'S YEARLY. I HAVE THE, UM, CELEBRATION
DATES OF MY FAMILY MEMBERS IN MY CALENDAR AND CELEBRATE THEM EVERY YEAR THAT THEY ARE CLEAN . AND SO FOR ME THIS IS DEEPLY CONCERNING THAT PEOPLE ARE THROWN OFF OF THEIR RECOVERY.
AND I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK. UH, PETER SO I DO WANT TO ASK ARE THERE ANY OTHER SUBSTANCES THAT ARE CONCERNING TO SEE AT THIS MOMENT THAT ARE BEING SOLD
OVER THE SHELVES? YEAH, I, I WILL START BY SAYING THAT TOBACCO REMAINS. THE LEADING A LEADING CAUSE. OF OF AN UNDERLYING CAUSE OF DEATH. UM, SO WE.
DO FOCUS A. LOT OF OUR REGULATORY EFFORT ON . MAKING SURE THAT WE. >> DON'T. LOSE GROUND. >> ON THE PROGRESS. THAT WE'RE MAKING THERE. BUT IN TERMS OF. EMERGING PRODUCTS. I THINK THE COUNCIL. HAS ALSO.
RAISED THE ISSUE OF. NITROUS OXIDE AND. I THINK WE SORT SHARE. >> THAT CONCERN. UM. I THINK THE THE. CHALLENGE THAT I'LL JUST NAME AGAIN IS THAT UM.
THIS IS A MOVING TARGET ESPECIALLY WITH. SYNTHETIC SUBSTANCES. THAT UM. THAT DRAFTING SOMETHING THAT THAT. CAPTURES WHATEVER THE NEXT COMPOUND IS I THINK WILL BE. UH WILL BE THE REAL CHALLENGE.
>> BUT WE'RE. >> WE'RE. HERE TO. >> HARDEN. WELL AND THAT'S EXACTLY MY ISSUE. IT'S LIKE IT FEELS LIKE WE'RE JUST PLAYING WHACK A MOLE WITH ALL OF THESE SUBSTANCES AND I'M DEEPLY UPSET THAT PERMITTING
AND LICENSING AND I-S-D AND ALL OF THESE THINGS HAVE NOT COME TOGETHER TO SAY IF THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SELL A NEW SUBSTANCE THAT IS THAT YOU'RE SELLING TO GET PEOPLE HIGH THAT WE HAVE
NOTHING TO SAY OR DO ABOUT IT. I UNDERSTAND THERE IS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF FREE WILL WHEN IT COMES TO OWNING A BUSINESS AND SELLING AND OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF TIMES WITH NITROUS OXIDE IN PARTICULAR PEOPLE ARE LITERALLY
USING SOMETHING THAT WAS DESIGNED FOR SOMETHING ELSE. SO YOU CAN OFTEN SAY OH WE'RE SELLING IT FOR MEDICAL REASONS. WE'RE SELLING IT, UM, YOU KNOW, FOR YOUR PARTY BALLOONS WE'RE SELLING IT FOR X, Y, Z.
SO I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF YOU KNOW, IF YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, UM, GOING ON HERE. UM BUT I JUST WANT TO THANK COUNCILOR FITZGERALD FOR YOUR ADVOCACY. NITROUS OXIDE IS SOMETHING THAT I KNOW.
COUNCILOR LOUIJEUNE AND I FILED SOMETHING LAST YEAR ON THAT SUBJECT BECAUSE THAT WAS ALSO HAPPENING IN DISTRICT EIGHT. I HAD NO CLUE. >> THAT. YOU COULD SO EASILY FIND THIS ON NEWBURY STREET CLOSE TO A SCHOOL.
WE ABSOLUTELY NEED TO DO SOMETHING FAST AND I WANT TO THANK COUNCILOR FITZGERALD FOR HIS LEADERSHIP. I THINK PARTICULARLY I JUST WANT TO ASK UM ONE LAST QUESTION ABOUT UM, FCS
ADVOCACY. UM, GIVEN THAT OFTENTIMES YOU'RE ABLE TO FOLLOW SORT OF THESE PUBLIC HEALTH INITIATIVES THROUGHOUT THE STATE, HAS THE CITY TAKEN AN OFFICIAL POSITION ON HOUSE BILL
2461? I CAN'T SPEAK TO AN OFFICIAL POSITION OR WHETHER IT'S SORT OF FORMALLY IN AN ADVOCACY. AGENDA, BUT I I THINK WE. HAVE INDIVIDUAL.
CONVERSATIONS WITH UM WITH LEGISLATORS STRONGLY SUGGESTED . >> THAT THIS. >> IS SOMETHING THAT ESPECIALLY ON THE KRATOM SIDE, UH, AND SEVEN EIGHT WHICH. UH SUGGESTS. >> THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S CRYING OUT FOR
REGULATION AT THE STATE LEVEL GIVEN THE GROUNDSWELL OF LOCAL BOARDS OF HEALTH THAT ARE ALL SHARING THE SAME CONCERN AND AND SORT OF UH, TRYING IN THEIR OWN WAY TO ADDRESS IT BACK. TO COUNCIL.
WAS COUNCILOR FLYNN'S POINT THE ABILITY TO KNOW THAT, UM, WE CAN'T JUST CROSS OVER TO THE. NEXT TOWN THAT HAPPENS TO NOT HAVE A REGULATION YET. SO I. I DO. THINK UH, WE.
ARE SUPPORTIVE OF A STATE. LEVEL APPROACH AGAIN, ALSO SUPPORTIVE OF UH A FEDERAL APPROACH. BUT I THINK WE'RE SORT OF HERE IN A SPACE WHERE WE'RE NEITHER OF THOSE ARE IN PLACE YET. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
AND THROUGH THE CHAIR UM, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO REQUEST IF THERE'S A WORKING SESSION THAT WE INCLUDE I-S-D AND UM, SORT OF LIKE WE HAVE AN IDEA OF HOW
IN THE FUTURE WE CAN GET SORT OF EARLIER ON INTO PERMITTING UM. ,BECAUSE. >> I DO THINK IT'S IF A SMOKE SHOP KNEW THAT THEY WERE IN JEOPARDY FOR ADDING A NEW THING TO THEIR THEY MIGHT UM, YOU
KNOW, IF THEY KNEW THEY WERE GOING TO BE SHUT DOWN BY I-S-D THE NEXT DAY BECAUSE THEY ADDED A NEW UM, SUBSTANCE THAT WAS GETTING PEOPLE HIGH IN THE CITY OF BOSTON, MAYBE THEY THEY WOULD THINK TWICE IN SOME WAY
AND I'M SORRY I'M GETTING SO EMOTIONAL BUT IT REALLY THIS IS LIKE SO CLEARLY SOMETHING THAT SHOULD NOT FALL THROUGH THE
REGULATORY CRACKS WHEN CITY OF BOSTON RESIDENTS ARE FALLING INTO SOMETHING THEY DON'T REALIZE IS HARMFUL. SO THANK YOU SO MUCH CHAIR. THANK YOU COUNCILOR DURKAN.
AND I THINK WE ALL APPRECIATE, UH, COUNCILOR JENKINS ECHOING THE URGENCY OF WHETHER WHETHER THE ORDINANCE IS THE FACT THE WAY WE GO TO MAKE SURE THAT'S ON THE BOOKS BUT. UM. >> HOW TO SPEED THAT PROCESS UP
AND TO TO SOMEONE WHO TESTIFIED EARLIER STEVE FOX WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT TO YOUR POINT, COUNCILOR UM, IT ISN'T JUST THE KRATOM ITSELF IT IS THE STORES AND HOW ARE THEY THE ROLE THAT THEY PLAY IN BEING THE
GATEKEEPER TO SOME OF THESE THINGS? AND I THINK YOU BRING IN A GREAT POINT OF UH, WE CAN'T JUST ALLOW IT TO BE. THE NEXT THING KEEP COMING UP THROUGH THESE TYPE OF ESTABLISHMENTS AND US KEEPING HAVING TO PLAY
WHAC-A-MOLE WITH EVERY NEW THING THAT. COMES ALONG. UM, SO IT'S A GREAT IDEA AND ONE WE WILL CONSIDER WHEN WE GO FORWARD ON. >> A. ON A WORKING SESSION WITH THAT I LOOK AT MY COLLEAGUES AND ASK IF THERE'S JUST ANY OTHER FINAL QUESTIONS OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT
CAME UP SINCE YOU HAVE SPOKE UH VERY QUICKLY IF WE CAN GET THAT IN AND THEN WE'LL WE'LL WRAP IT. IT'S THE CHAIRMAN. I'M GOOD. >> AND THANK YOU FOR THE LEADERSHIP ON THIS ISSUE AND YOUR CO-CHAIR. >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR COPPER.
UM THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. IN THE INTEREST OF TIME, I WON'T ASK ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS . UM, BUT I DO I DO WANT TO SEE IF WE CAN WORK TOGETHER. UM, ON DEVELOPING AN ORDINANCE
ON THIS. BECAUSE WE THIS HAS TO BE, UM, IN THE SYSTEM FOR US TO WORK ON IMMEDIATELY. AND I THINK IT'S A PRIORITY FOR
ALL OF US TO GET, UH, GET THIS HARMFUL DRUG OFF THE SHELVES OF BOSTON STORES. THANK YOU. MR CHAIR. >> THANK YOU, COUNCILOR, BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF YOU I THINK I SAID YOU GOOD? YEP. GREAT. WELL, UH, I JUST WANT TO SAY I
APPRECIATE YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE FOR ALL THE FOLKS WHO HAVE COME AND TESTIFIED. I HOPE. >> UH, THAT EVERYONE HERE I BELIEVE THERE IS A GENERAL SENTIMENT ABOUT THE DIRECTION THAT WE WANT THIS TO GO, UH, AND THE URGENCY THAT WE WANTED TO GO IN.
UH, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE THERE'S SOME, UH, REGULATORY BARRIERS PERHAPS OVERALL UM, BUT IF OTHER TOWNS HAVE DONE IT, UH, WE CAN HELP NUDGE THAT ALONG AND SEND A MESSAGE TO THE STATE TO DO A
BLANKET, UH, REGULATORY PROCESS AS WELL THAT I THINK WILL HELP A LOT FURTHER GOING ON. SO, UH, WE HOPE THAT WE CONTINUE TO ADD OUR CITY'S NAME TO THE LIST OF OTHER CITIES AND TOWNS IN THIS STATE.
I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE TODAY, PROVIDING YOUR EXPERTISE AND TO MY COLLEAGUES WHO SHOWED UP UH, AND WITH THAT, THIS HEARING ON
DOCKET 0175 IS ADJOURNED.