--------- FOR THE RECORD MY NAME IS GABRIELLA COLLETTE AS A DISTRICT ONE CITY COUNCILOR AND I'M THE CHAIR OF THE BOSTON CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS TODAY'S APRIL 7TH 2026 AND THE EXACT TIME IS 1008.
THIS HEARING IS BEING RECORDED. IT IS ALSO BEING LIVE STREAMED AT BOSTON.GOV/CITY COUNCIL DASH TV AND BROADCAST ON XFINITY CHANNEL EIGHT, RCN CHANNEL 82
AND FIOS CHANNEL 964. WRITTEN COMMENTS MAY BE SENT TO THE COMMITTEE EMAIL AT SCOTT GEO@BOSTON.GOV AND WILL BE MADE A PART OF THE RECORD TO ALL COUNCILORS.
PUBLIC TESTIMONY WILL BE TAKEN AT THE BEGINNING AND IN THE MIDDLE AND ALSO AT THE END OF THIS HEARING INDIVIDUALS WILL BE CALLED ON IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY SIGNED UP AND WILL HAVE TWO MINUTES TO TESTIFY.
IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN TESTIFYING IN PERSON, PLEASE ADD YOUR NAME TO THE SIGN UP SHEET NEAR THE ENTRANCE OF THE CITY COUNCIL CHAMBER. IF YOU'RE LOOKING TO TESTIFY VIRTUALLY, PLEASE EMAIL OUR
CENTRAL STAFF LIAISON MEGAN AT AND E A G A C O R UG IDO@BOSTON.GOV FOR THE LINK AND YOUR NAME WILL BE ADDED TO THE LIST.
TODAY'S HEARING IS ON DOCKET NUMBER 0325 ORDINANCE AMENDING CITY OF BOSTON CODE ORDINANCE 1722 ROAD SAFETY AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR DELIVERY
PROVIDERS. THIS MATTER WAS SPONSORED BY COUNCILOR FLYNN AND WAS REFERRED TO THE COMMITTEE ON FEBRUARY 9TH, 2026. TODAY I'M JOINED BY MY COLLEAGUES IN ORDER OF ARRIVAL
COUNCILOR FLYNN, COUNCILOR DURKAN AND COUNCILOR MURPHY. I ALSO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE'VE BEEN SENT AN ABSENCE LETTER BY OUR CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT.
UH LIZ BURTON READS I REGRET I'M UNABLE TO ATTEND THIS MORNING'S HEARING ON THIS DOCKET. MEMBERS OF MY TEAM WILL BE LISTENING INTO THIS DISCUSSION AND I PLAN TO REVIEW THE RECORDING. I KINDLY ASK THAT YOU READ THIS LETTER INTO THE RECORD.
THANK YOU. LIZ BURTON, PRESIDENT OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND REPRESENTATIVE OF AUSTIN. RIGHT. I'LL NOW PASS IT TO MY COLLEAGUES FOR ANY OPENING REMARKS THAT THEY MAY HAVE. UM, STARTING WITH THE LEAD
SPONSOR COUNCILOR FLYNN, COUNCILOR FOR ANY OF THE FOUR. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR, FOR HOLDING THIS IMPORTANT HEARING TODAY. THANK YOU TO MY FELLOW COUNCILORS FOR BEING HERE.
I FILED THIS AMENDMENT, UM, LAST SEPTEMBER AND REFILED IT AGAIN IN FEBRUARY. THIS IS INTENDED TO REMOVE MOPEDS AND E-BIKES FROM THIRD PARTY FOOD DELIVERY.
IT'S IMPORTANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT SOMEONE LOST THEIR LIFE LAST YEAR AFTER A CRASH WITH THE MOPED NEAR COPLEY SQUARE. I'M AFRAID IF THIS BODY DOES NOT ACT MORE PEOPLE WILL GET
HURT INCLUDING THE DRIVERS THEMSELVES. FOOD DELIVERY WAS NOT SOMETHING BROKEN IN OUR CITY THAT NEEDED TO BE FIXED. BUT JUST A FEW YEARS AGO THESE LARGE BIG TECH THIRD PARTY FOOD
DELIVERY COMPANIES IN THE CITY ENCOURAGED WORKERS TO USE MOPEDS TO MAKE THESE DELIVERIES . THE REASON GIVEN WAS BECAUSE OF ONE LANE BLOCKED ON BOYLSTON
STREET. NOW ACROSS BOSTON OUR STREETS ARE LESS SAFE WITH MOPEDS GOING THROUGH RED LIGHTS, STOP SIGNS ON SIDEWALKS AND ON THE WRONG
WAY ON ONE WAY STREETS AS THEY'VE REPORTEDLY INCENTIVIZED TO PRIORITIZE SPEED OVER SAFETY. FOR MORE ASSIGNMENTS HIGHER RATINGS ULTIMATELY KEEPING
THEIR JOB THAT MADE OUR EXISTING PEDESTRIAN SAFETY CRISIS WORSE. FROM THE SPEEDING CARS WE ALREADY HAD AS I AS I MENTIONED ,A PERSON DIED AT COPLEY SQUARE.
NO REASONABLE PERSON BELIEVES FOOD DELIVERY WAS VIOLATING TRAFFIC LAWS AT THAT SCALE PREVIOUSLY. SOMEONE'S DELIVERY ORDER IS NOT AN EMERGENCY. WITH ALL WE'RE REQUIRED TO DO
WITH LOWER STAFFING LEVELS AND MANDATORY OVERTIME, BOSTON POLICE RESOURCES ARE NOW ALSO BEING SIDE TRACKED TO ENFORCE A REQUEST BIG TECH FOOD DELIVERY
MODEL FROM THE PANDEMIC. AT A COMMUNITY MEETING ACROSS THE CITY FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS, RESIDENTS CONTINUED TO REPORT THESE ISSUES WHILE WE HIGHLIGHT ENFORCEMENT. IT'S UNREALISTIC TO EXPECT
BOSTON POLICE TO CONSISTENTLY ENFORCE ALL OF THE HUNDREDS OF MOPEDS EVERY DAY WITH STAFFING LEVELS AND OVERSTRETCHED RESOURCES. THIS IS NOT ABOUT CARS FOR US
BIKES HE BIKES FOR MOPEDS. NO REASONABLE PERSON BELIEVES THAT OUR ROADS ARE SAFER FOR PEDESTRIANS, CYCLISTS AND DRIVERS. OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS IN THE
EARLY DAYS OF THE PANDEMIC, COUNCILOR FLAHERTY AND I ALSO HIGHLIGHTED HOW THESE LARGE TECHNOLOGY CORPORATIONS WERE CHARGING MOM AND POP SHOPS 30%
CITY AND STATE AND NATIONAL OFFICIALS ALL HIGHLIGHTED THAT THEY DO NOT CLASSIFY DRIVERS AS EMPLOYEES. WHEN I STARTED ON THE CITY COUNCIL, THE COUNCIL CAME
TOGETHER TO ADDRESS AIRBNB AND INVEST TWO UNITS. LAST APRIL WE PASSED THE MAYOR'S ROAD SAFETY ORDINANCE TO REQUIRE THIRD PARTY DELIVERIES TO OBTAIN A PERMIT.
BUT IT'S NOT AT ALL CLEAR TO DRIVERS WHERE THEY'LL GET THIS INSURANCE. IF YOU WERE A PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANY, WOULD YOU OFFER POLICIES WHEN YOU SEE THIS TYPE OF RISK?
LET'S I HAVE THE COURAGE TO ADMIT THAT WHAT IS TAKING PLACE NOW ON BOSTON'S ROADS AND SIDEWALKS IS NOT WORKING. WE NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE REALITY.
BOSTON CAN NO LONGER BE THE WILD WILD WEST. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FLYNN. COUNCILOR MURPHY. UM, THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FLYNN FOR REFILING AND CONTINUING
THIS CONVERSATION. THANK YOU, CHAIR, FOR HAVING THIS TODAY. UM, IT'S A BALANCE RIGHT BETWEEN SAFETY OVER CONVENIENCE
AND DURING THE PANDEMIC. I COULD MAYBE ARGUE THAT YOU WOULDN'T SAY IT WAS CONVENIENT WHEN PEOPLE COULDN'T GET OUT, BUT AT THIS POINT WE DEFINITELY HAVE TO BALANCE WHAT IS RIGHT
AND WHAT IS WRONG HERE. AND ONE THING I HOPE TO HEAR I KNOW THAT COUNCILOR FLYNN, YOU HAD INVITED THE BOSTON POLICE BUT THEY'RE NOT HERE TO SPEAK ON THIS OR THE TRANSPORTATION
DEPARTMENT WITH ISD. BUT YOU KNOW WE KNOW THE POLICE HAVE A STAFFING CRISIS ALREADY AND AREN'T ABLE TO TICKET AND PULL OVER EVERY DELIVERY DRIVER
WHO MAY BE VIOLATING THE TRAFFIC LAW THAT'S ALREADY ON THE BOOKS. IT'S NOT LIKE WE HAVE TO CREATE NEW LAWS BUT WE DO HAVE TO BECAUSE SOME OF THE STORIES I HEAR ARE JUST, YOU KNOW,
SPEEDING THE WRONG WAY UP A STREET LIKE NOBODY SHOULD BE DOING THAT. AND IT'S NOT JUST DELIVERY DRIVERS. SO ALLOWING ANY TYPE OF CHAOTIC DRIVING SHOULD NEVER BE ACCEPTED. AND I THINK IT'S A BIGGER
CONVERSATION ABOUT MAKING SURE WE DO HAVE THE RESOURCES ON THE POLICE SIDE TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL ALL DRIVERS IF THEY'RE ON MOPEDS, BIKES, CARS, BUSSES THAT THEY'RE DRIVING SAFELY THE
RESIDENTS OF THE CITY OF BOSTON DESERVE THAT. SO JUST LOOKING FORWARD TO THE CONVERSATION HEARING FROM THE ADMINISTRATION AND HOW WE CAN, YOU KNOW, MAKE THIS ORDINANCE
STRONG TO WORK FOR EVERYONE BECAUSE WE DO KNOW THAT DELIVERY DRIVERS THIS IS THEIR MEANS TO THEIR IT'S THEIR JOB AND THEY WE DON'T WANT TO TAKE THAT JOB AWAY FROM PEOPLE BUT THEY CAN'T BE DRIVING IN A WAY
AND NOT HAVE SOME REPERCUSSION IF THEY'RE NOT DRIVING SAFELY OR JUST BLATANTLY VIOLATING TRAFFIC LAWS. SO LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS CONVERSATION. THANK YOU CHAIR. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR MURPHY. COUNCILOR DURKAN.
THANK YOU SO MUCH CHAIR COLETTA AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP ON THIS ISSUE. I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT I'VE BEEN A LEADING VOICE ON MONITORING AND ENFORCING THIRD PARTY
DELIVERY SERVICES FROM, UH, THE HAVOC THEY'VE CREATED ON OUR STREETS AND I HAVE THE RECEIPTS TO PROVE IT. UM, I ALSO HAD AN AMENDMENT AND THE INITIAL VERSION OF THIS ORDINANCE THAT REQUIRES DATA
REPORTING. WE'RE THE FIRST CITY IN THE COUNTRY TO DO THAT. AND AS A LEADING VOICE ON THIS ISSUE, I PARTNERED WITH BPD AND THE POLICE ON SEIZURES AND PICKUPS IN MY DISTRICT. I'VE BEEN PART OF A WORKING GROUP WITH THE ADMINISTRATIONS
. UM MY HEARING OVER TWO YEARS AGO IS WHAT KICKSTARTED THIS CONVERSATION. UM I ALSO PROPOSED A 15% FEE THAT WAS NOT ADOPTED IN THE INITIAL ORDINANCE THAT WOULD
HAVE UH GENERATED UH BETWEEN 2 AND $5 MILLION FOR THE CITY OF BOSTON. UM, UNFORTUNATELY I COULD NOT GET MY COLLEAGUES ON BOARD WITH IT. OUR CONSTITUENTS ARE USING THESE SERVICES OFTEN.
UM, THE DURKAN AMENDMENT AS I CALL IT UH, THAT I INCLUDED UH, TO HELP WITH US ACTUALLY RECEIVE DATA FROM THESE COMPANIES WILL BE PROVIDED EACH QUARTER.
UM, WE ARE THE FIRST THE FIRST IN THE COUNTRY TO MANDATE THIS. I'VE MET DIRECTLY WITH THIRD PARTY DELIVERY COMPANIES ABOUT PROBLEM AREAS ACROSS THE CITY. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THIS
ORDINANCE AS AMENDED HERE IS THE CORRECT PATH FOR BOSTON. WE ALSO HAVE A LETTER FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT SAYING EXACTLY THE SAME THING AND LET ME READ IT. THEY MAY NOT BE HERE BUT THEY SENT A LETTER.
EFFECTIVE PUBLIC SAFETY DEPENDS ON STRONG COMMUNITY RELATIONSHIPS IN ADDITION TO ENFORCEMENT, BUILDING AND MAINTAINING TRUST WITH COMMUNITIES WE SERVE IS CENTRAL TO THE MISSION OF COMMUNITY POLICING. THE PROPOSAL TO GET TO READ
THIS INTO THE RECORD SO. YEAH, THE PROPOSAL TO BAN MOPEDS AND SCOOTERS USED FOR DELIVERY PREVENTS POTENTIAL CHALLENGES THAT COULD AFFECT THAT BALANCE. UM AND BECAUSE THE CHAIR IS
GOING TO READ INTO THE RECORD I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT UM WE ACTUALLY LET THE ORDINANCE GO INTO EFFECT. UM, AND WE ACTUALLY GET OUR FIRST TRANCHE OF DATA.
UM, SO I'M AGAINST THIS AS PROPOSED AND I THINK THAT UM I WANT TO THANK THE CHAIR FOR HER THOUGHTFULNESS. I WANT TO THANK THE MAYOR AND HER TEAM FOR WORKING ON THIS ORDINANCE.
UM, WE'VE HAD INDEPENDENT CONVERSATIONS WITH THESE THIRD PARTY DELIVERY COMPANIES. WE UNDERSTAND THAT OUR CONSTITUENTS DO NOT WANT TO LOSE ACCESS TO THESE SERVICES, AND IT'S NOT A CONVENIENCE FOR SOME IT'S ALSO A MATTER
OF ACCESSIBILITY. UM, WE KNOW THAT MICROMOBILITY REDUCES TRAFFIC. UM, WE ALSO KNOW THAT THESE COMPANIES ARE WREAKING HAVOC ON OUR STREETS AND WE HAVE TO PROVIDE BALANCE. BUT I THINK IT'S REALLY
IMPORTANT, UH, THAT I BE HERE TODAY IN OPPOSITION TO THIS, UH ,BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THIS ORDINANCE TO ACTUALLY GO INTO EFFECT. THAT'S BEEN MY POSITION. UM, AND I THINK I HAVE THE TRACK RECORD TO PROVE THAT I'M
WILLING TO WORK WITH ANYONE ON THIS ISSUE AND UM, BUT WE NEED TO THINK THOUGHTFULLY ABOUT HOW THIS WILL ACTUALLY IMPACT OUR STREETS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR DURKAN. UM, I'M NOW GOING TO READ THIS LETTER INTO THE RECORD FROM THE
BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT. IT READS UH, DEAR CHAIR COLETTE IS A PART THAT I'M WRITING TO PROVIDE INPUT ON THE ENFORCEMENT CONSIDERATIONS ASSOCIATED WITH PROPOSED CHANGES TO THIS CITY ORDINANCE. AND I'M GOING TO PARAPHRASE
HERE. UH, THAT WOULD PROHIBIT THE USE OF MOTORIZED ELECTRIC BICYCLE SCOOTERS AND SIMILAR VEHICLES FOR THIRD PARTY DELIVERY SERVICES WITHIN BOSTON. THE BPD IS COMMITTED TO PROTECTING PUBLIC SAFETY INCLUDING REDUCING TRAFFIC
HAZARDS, ROADWAY CONDITIONS, ENSURING ACCOUNTABILITY AMONG ALL DRIVERS IN OUR STREETS. WE SHARE THE COMMUNITY'S CONCERNS REGARDING RECKLESS AND DANGEROUS DRIVING OF ALL TYPES OF VEHICLES INCLUDING THOSE MENTIONED. A QUICK ANALYSIS BY THE BRICK
FOR THIS HEARING INDICATED THAT SCOOTERS WERE MENTIONED IN 525 CRASH REPORT NARRATIVES IN 2025. FURTHER ANALYSIS WOULD BE REQUIRED TO DETERMINE EXACTLY HOW MANY SCOOTERS WERE INVOLVED
,BUT THEY COULD HAVE BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH THE VICTIM, SUSPECT, WITNESS OR INVOLVEMENT IN ANOTHER CRASH. ADDITIONALLY, SCOOTERS AND SIMILAR VEHICLES CONTINUE TO BE USED IN THE COMMISSION OF CRIMES INCLUDING ROBBERIES, FIREARM VIOLENCE DUE TO THEIR
ABILITY TO MANEUVER EASILY IN TRAFFIC AND THEY ARE FREQUENTLY STOLEN. THERE ARE 448 AUTO THEFTS OF SCOOTERS REPORTED IN 2025. OUR DISTRICT COMMANDERS USE DATA DRIVEN TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT
DEPLOYMENT STRATEGIES TO ADDRESS AREAS OF ROAD SAFETY CONCERNS BASED ON INCIDENTS, ACCIDENTS VIOLATIONS AND COMMUNITY COMPLAINTS. IN ADDITION, THE DEPARTMENT PARTNERS WITH THE TRANSPORTATION CABINET AND OTHER CITY AGENCIES TO
IMPLEMENT THE VISION ZERO ACTION PLAN AND THE BPD AUTO THEFT UNIT WORKS WITH INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL PARTNERS TO PROACTIVELY ADDRESS STREET TAKEOVERS AND STOLEN SCOOTERS, E-BIKES AND MOPEDS.
EFFECTIVE PUBLIC SAFETY DEPENDS ON STRONG COMMUNITY RELATIONSHIPS IN ADDITION TO ENFORCEMENT, BUILDING AND MAINTAINING TRUST WITH THE COMMUNITIES WE SERVE IS ESSENTIAL TO OUR MISSION OF COMMUNITY POLICING. THE PROPOSED THE PROPOSAL TO
BAN MOPEDS AND SCOOTERS USED FOR DELIVERY PRESENTS POTENTIAL CHALLENGES THAT COULD AFFECT THAT BALANCE. OFFICERS WOULD BE REQUIRED TO MAKE REAL TIME DETERMINATIONS ABOUT WHETHER AN INDIVIDUAL IS
ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN DELIVERY ACTIVITY WHICH MAY NOT OUTWARDLY BE VISIBLE. THAT CREATES A RISK OF INCONSISTENT ENFORCEMENT AND MAY LEAD TO INTERACTIONS THAT
COMMUNITY MEMBERS PERCEIVE AS ARBITRARY OR UNFAIR. PERCEPTIONS OF UNEQUAL IMPACT COULD UNDERMINE OUR ONGOING EFFORTS TO STRENGTHEN COMMUNITY TRUST. THE DEPARTMENT REMAINS
COMMITTED TO WORKING COLLABORATIVELY WITH COUNCILORS ,COMMUNITY MEMBERS AND PARTNER AGENCIES TO ADVANCE SOLUTIONS THAT IMPROVE SAFETY OUTCOMES WHILE MAINTAINING THE TRUST THAT IS ESSENTIAL TO EFFECTIVE POLICING.
THANK YOU. SINCERELY, JOHN AND BROWN, SUPERINTENDENT CHIEF OF THE BUREAU OF FIELD SERVICES. I WANT TO THANK THEM FOR SENDING THAT LETTER. I WANT TO THANK UM OUR AND
INTRODUCE TODAY'S PANELISTS. AGAIN WE'LL BE GOING TO PUBLIC TESTIMONY BUT I'LL JUST INTRODUCE YOU SO THAT FOLKS KNOW THAT YOU'RE IN THE ROOM. UM, THIS IS MIA CAPONE, DIRECTOR OF PARKING AND CURBSIDE MANAGEMENT FROM THE BOSTON TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT AND WE'LL HEAR FROM
YOU IN JUST A BIT. I DO WANT TO GO TO PUBLIC TESTIMONY THAT, UM, HAS ALREADY GOT A LOT OF PEOPLE SIGNED UP. SO WE'RE GOING TO TAKE FOLKS IN THE BEGINNING BASED ON THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY SIGNED UP.
I HAVE A LIST IN FRONT OF ME THEN WE'LL GO TO THIS LIST RIGHT HERE. STARTING FIRST WITH CARMEN BLADEN, UH, TIM COOK AND THEN
RICHARD COHEN. IF YOU WANT TO APPROACH THE MIC AND WE'VE ALSO BEEN JOINED BY COUNCILOR JOHN FITZGERALD FROM DISTRICT THREE. IF YOU WANT TO APPROACH THE MIC, JUST SAY YOUR NAME, YOUR
AFFILIATION AND, UH, YOU HAVE TWO MINUTES. GOOD MORNING. MY NAME IS. CARMEN BLADEN AND I AM A BOSTON. RESIDENT AS WELL AS COMMUNITY ORGANIZER. FOR THE BOSTON CYCLISTS UNION. AND TODAY I'M READING A
STATEMENT FROM THE BCU. THE BCU OPPOSES THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO THE ROAD SAFETY AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR DELIVERY PROVIDERS ORDINANCE. THE DELIVERY DRIVERS TARGETED
BY THIS PROPOSAL ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY IMMIGRANTS AND PEOPLE OF COLOR WHO RELY ON THIS WORK TO PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE. THESE ARE ALREADY SUCH HOSTILE AND ECONOMICALLY CHALLENGING
TIMES FOR IMMIGRANTS, AND WE DON'T NEED TO MAKE THINGS WORSE BY ADDING AN ADDITIONAL ECONOMIC BARRIER TO ONE OF THE FEW ACCESSIBLE JOBS FOR IMMIGRANTS.
ADDITIONALLY, THIS WOULD WORSEN TRAFFIC AND CONGESTION ACROSS THE CITY. IT WOULD BE COMPLETELY. ALL RIGHT, COMPLETELY OUT OF STEP WITH THE 2030 CLIMATE
ACTION PLAN TO HAVE TWICE AS MANY CARS DELIVERING BURGERS AND MILKSHAKES, CLOGGING UP OUR ROADWAYS AND POLLUTING OUR AIR . JUST IMAGINE IF EVERY MOPED IN
EVERY MOPED AND SCOOTER UM I'M SORRY EVERY MOPED AND SCOOTER ON BOYLSTON STREET WAS A CAR. MICROMOBILITY DELIVERY IS A NECESSITY FOR A CITY LIKE BOSTON.
MORE CARS ON THE ROAD ALSO WILL MEAN NO BENEFITS TO SAFETY. LIKE THE PROPOSAL SUGGESTS, DELIVERY AND RIDESHARE DRIVERS DRIVE UNPREDICTABLY BECAUSE
OF THE CURRENT REQUIREMENTS OF THE JOB AND BOSTON CERTAINLY NEEDS LESS UNPREDICTABILITY ON OUR ROADS. SO NOT ONLY IS THIS LANGUAGE NOT EQUITABLE AND BAD FOR OUR
CLIMATE GOALS, IT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO UNDERMINE THE UNDERLYING ORDINANCE THAT IS JUST DAYS AWAY FROM TAKING EFFECT. THE ORIGINAL ORDINANCE PASSED LAST YEAR HAS ALREADY ALREADY
HAS BOLD STEPS TO HELP HOLD THESE DELIVERY APPS ACCOUNTABLE TO THE CONCERNS COUNCILOR FLYNN HAS RAISED. ADDITIONALLY, THE ORDINANCE WILL COLLECT VALUABLE DATA
WHICH CAN BE USED IN FUTURE AMENDMENTS IF THEY ARE NEEDED. ENFORCEMENT IS SUPPOSED TO BEGIN IN JUST A FEW DAYS ON APRIL 11TH. SO WHY ARE WE NOW MUDDYING THE WATERS NOW? SO WHY ARE WE MUDDYING THE
WATERS NOW. >> AND. ADDING POTENTIAL DELAYS? WE ASKED THE CITY. WE ASKED THE BOSTON CITY COUNCIL REJECT THESE AMENDMENTS AND PROCEED AS PLANNED WITH
IMPLEMENTATION OF THE LANGUAGE THAT WAS PASSED IN 2025. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH. UH, TIM COOK. UH GOOD MORNING. UM, MY NAME IS TIM COOK.
UH, I LIVE IN DOWNTOWN BOSTON. UM, I'M, UH, CALLING AS A CONCERNED CITIZEN. I THINK LIKE MANY OF YOU WHO WALK, UH, IN THE STREETS OF DOWNTOWN BOSTON IN THE DAYTIME OR THE EVENING YOU'VE
SEEN REPEATED, UH, VIOLATIONS OF TRAFFIC, UH, E-BIKES GOING THE WRONG WAY ON STREETS, DRIVING ON SIDEWALKS. THIS IS HAZARDOUS FOR PEDESTRIANS, FOR YOUNG
FAMILIES, FOR THE ELDERLY. UM, I'M EXCITED THAT, UH, THE CITY COUNCIL IS PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS. I THINK I'D ALSO ADD THAT, UH, IT'S NOT JUST THE DELIVERY SYSTEM.
THE CITY HAS NOT ADDRESSED CIVILIANS, UH, AND COMMUTERS WHO ALSO VIOLATE THESE LAWS ON A REGULAR BASIS. AND WHILE THE BPD MAY BE STRAPPED TO RESOURCES, IT'S
REALLY A PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUE THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS. AND I'M GLAD THE CITY COUNCIL IS FOCUSED ON IT AND I HOPE THAT YOU MOVE FORWARD BECAUSE WE REALLY CANNOT. YOU KNOW THIS IS A PROBLEM.
PEOPLE ARE GETTING HURT AND WILL CONTINUE TO GET HURT. UM THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. >> TIM. UH, ERIC QUICK RICHARD COHEN
EXCUSE ME. OKAY OKAY OKAY OKAY OKAY OKAY.
RICHARD, YOU HAVE AN ECHO. TURN DOWN. >> MY MIC. CAN YOU HEAR ME? OKAY. YES, WE CAN HEAR YOU. OKAY. >> THANK YOU. UM, THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO PARTICIPATE. I BELIEVE THIS THIS ISSUE
SEEMED TO HAVE COME UP, UH, VERY SUDDENLY. I'VE LIVED IN THE CITY FOR 12 YEARS NOW AND I ONLY STARTED TO NOTICE IT ABOUT A YEAR AGO. I DO A LOT OF RUNNING ON THE
STREETS. UH, I ALSO HAVE A CITY BIKE AND I RIDE MY BIKE AROUND THE CITY ALL THE TIME. IT'S PRETTY DISCONCERTING TO
GET PASSED BY A MOPED, UH, IN A BIKE LANE AND, UH, IT'S IT'S VERY RATTLING. I DON'T BEGRUDGE PEOPLE MAKING A LIVING. I BUT I DO KNOW THAT THEY
AREN'T CENTERED TO DRIVE FAST AND PICK UP ORDERS. I KNOW THAT BECAUSE I HAVE DRIVEN FOR UBER MYSELF IN THE PAST NOT THE FOOD DELIVERY SIDE BUT THE PASSENGER SIDE.
AND THE NEW REQUESTS COME IN ONE AFTER THE NEXT AND IT JUST CREATES A LITTLE BIT OF A FRENZY TO UH TO SPEED AND MOVE QUICKLY. UH, I'VE OBSERVED EVERYTHING
THAT COUNCILOR FLYNN HAS TALKED ABOUT THE WRONG WAY DRIVING DRIVING DOWN STREETS QUITE FAST ,BLOWING THROUGH RED LIGHTS,
MAKING TURNS I'VE SEEN DRIVING ON SIDEWALKS AND WEAVING IN AND OUT OF TRAFFIC AND PARKED CARS . I ALSO I LIVE ON BEACON STREET AND I SEE SCOOTERS ZIPPING UP
AND DOWN BACK STREET WHICH IS TECHNICALLY A PRIVATE WAY. IT'S USED AS A CUT THROUGH FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, BUT IT'S A VERY NARROW ALLEYWAY AND UH,
IT'S DISCONCERTING TO SEE SCOOTERS UM, DRIVING DOWN THAT STREET. UH, A LOT OF A LOT OF PEOPLE WALK ON THAT STREET AS WELL. BUT I WILL SAY I ALSO OWN A
SCOOTER NOT HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS. UH, I'VE NEVER GONE THROUGH RED LIGHTS. I'VE NEVER DRIVEN DOWN THE WRONG WAY ON A ONE WAY STREET AND, UH, I JUST DON'T
UNDERSTAND THAT TYPE OF BEHAVIOR OF REPORTED THIS TO. UH. >> 311 TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WHO WERE KIND ENOUGH TO CALL ME BACK ON IT. I EMAILED WITH UBER IN SEPTEMBER TO.
SEE IF. WHEN I DO MAKE A DELIVERY WHEN I DO REQUEST A DELIVERY WHICH IS NOT THAT OFTEN IF I COULD SPECIFY THAT IT'S NOT A SCOOTER . UM AND THAT IS NOT SOMETHING
THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO DO. SO IT'S TRULY A QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUE AND I JUST HATE TO. SEE THE STREETS. IN BOSTON BEING OVERTAKEN BY THESE SCOOTERS AS THEY HAVE
BECOME. UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. TWO MINUTES IF YOU WANT YOUR 15 MORE SECONDS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH. OKAY, WE, UH WE'RE GOING TO GO
TO THE THIS, UM, CHAMBER LIST. WE HAVE WALTER. OWEN. OWEN. I APOLOGIZE IF I SAID YOUR NAME WRONG. THE THEATER DISTRICT. CHRIS CHRISTIAN COLIN FROM BACK BAY AND I BELIEVE, UH, THE NAME
IS CARMEN. AND THEN WE'LL GO TO THE ADMINISTRATION PANEL. WALTER. MADAM CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL. MY NAME IS WALTER ONI O N E Y I
LIVE AT 151 TREMONT STREET. UM. I'VE GONE AND PREPARED A SMALL MAP OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHERE I LIVE. UM, THE X ON THIS SHOWS APPROXIMATELY WHERE I AM.
I LOOK OUT ON THE BOSTON COMMON AND I REGULARLY SEE ALL OF THE OFFENSES THAT COUNCILMAN FLYNN HAS DESCRIBED IN THE PREAMBLE TO HIS MOTION. UH, MULTIPLE TIMES PER DAY.
UM, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT THERE IS A BIKE LANE ON BOYLSTON. UH, EXCUSE ME ON TREMONT STREET. THAT'S MARKED AS ONE WAY IN THE SAME DIRECTION AS TRAFFIC. UM. >> MOPEDS AND OTHER ELECTRONIC TRONIC DEVICE UH CONVEYANCES
REGULARLY TRAVEL IN BOTH DIRECTIONS THERE AND THERE TRAVEL AT HIGH SPEED. UM THE SAME SPEED THAT THE MOST AGGRESSIVE OF AUTOMOBILE DRIVERS DRIVE WHEN THEY'RE ON. UM THE CENTRAL ARTERY TUNNEL.
IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR A PEDESTRIAN TO PREDICT, UH, WHEN IT'S SAFE TO CROSS THE STREET BECAUSE THESE VEHICLES DON'T STOP FOR THE TRAFFIC LIGHTS. AND SO, UH, YOU TAKE YOUR LIFE IN YOUR HANDS WHEN YOU TRY TO
CROSS AT EITHER WEST STREET OR AVERY STREET OR BOYLSTON STREET WHERE THERE ARE CROSSWALKS. I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THAT THE ATTITUDE OF THE OF THE PEOPLE WHO DRIVE THESE VEHICLES IS
BEST TURNED BELLIGERENT. UM, ON ONE OCCASION RECENTLY I WAS DRIVING ALONG BOYLSTON STREET AND I WAS CUT OFF BY A MOPED DRIVER WHO WAS COMPLETELY MASKED AND DIDN'T HAVE ANY KIND
OF A LICENSE PLATE ON HIS VEHICLE. AND SO I SOUNDED MY HORN AND HE SCOOTED AHEAD TO THE INTERSECTION AND ATTEMPTED TO STOP ME FROM ENTERING THE INTERSECTION. WHEN I WAS ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY
GET ACROSS TREMONT STREET, UH, ONTO THE EXTENSION OF BOYLSTON STREET. HE THEN ZOOMED AROUND ON MY RIGHT HAND SIDE AND SMASHED MY ,UH, PASSENGER SIDE MIRROR AND SO I COULDN'T BE ABLE TO SEE
OUT. IF I HADN'T HAD A PASSENGER WITH ME, I WOULD HAVE HAD TO GET OUT OF THE CAR PROBABLY TO PUT IT BACK IN POSITION SO THAT I COULD DRIVE SAFELY. I THINK THE TERM FOR THAT IS,
UH, ROAD RAGE. UM, MY OBSERVATION IS THAT THE VEHICLES SELDOM STOP FOR TRAFFIC CONTROLS DRIVE FAST, MOVE IN AND OUT AMONG CARS
SOMETIMES TRAVEL THE WRONG WAY. I'M REGULARLY COMING BACK FROM A BAND REHEARSAL ON CHARLES STREET AND I'M FACED WITH, UH, SOMEBODY DRIVING THE WRONG WAY AGAINST AGAINST ME.
UM, BY AND LARGE, I THINK THE PROBLEM IS TWOFOLD. NUMBER ONE, THE ATTITUDE OF THE DRIVERS WHICH I'VE DESCRIBED AS BEING BELLIGERENT AT BEST AND THE OTHER IS ENFORCEMENT. BOSTON POLICE HAVE TOLD ME THAT
THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO PURSUE THESE VEHICLES IN ORDER TO ENFORCE THE LAW. AND I THINK THAT THE COUNCIL NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING THAT WILL AT LEAST AMELIORATE THE PROBLEM.
AND COUNCILMAN, COUNCILMAN FLYNN'S PROPOSAL I THINK IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION BECAUSE IT WILL REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC THAT WE HAVE TO CONTEND WITH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU WALTER.
I APOLOGIZE I SHOULD HAVE SAID THIS EARLIER. WE CAN JOIN BY COUNCILOR PEPEN . UM. CHRISTIAN. SORRY. >> UH. >> GOOD MORNING. UH, BOSTON CITY COUNCIL AND
THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK IN SUPPORT OF THIS, UH, MATTER. UH, MY NAME IS CHRISTIAN CULLEN AND I AM A CURRENT RESIDENT OF BACK BAY AT THE INTERSECTION OF BEACON AND BERKELEY. UH, I COME WITH YOU WITH A
PERSPECTIVE SHAPED BY THREE ROLES AS A BACK BAY RESIDENT, AS A SURGERY RESIDENT AND AS A FORMER MOPED DRIVER. UH, IN COLLEGE I HAD A MOPED FOR THREE YEARS AND I LOVE THAT
THING. BUT IN ADDITION TO THIS LOVE, UH, I ALSO CAME TO UNDERSTAND HOW POWERFUL AND DANGEROUS THESE MOPEDS CAN BE. THAT UNDERSTANDING HAS DEEPENED
DURING MY SURGICAL TRAINING WHERE I HAVE LED MANY TRAUMA ACTIVATIONS IN THE E.R. AND I'VE SEEN THE TRAUMA AND MORTALITY ASSOCIATED WITH THESE MOPEDS. READING ABOUT THE FATAL CRASH
NEAR COPLEY LAST SUMMER WAS NOT ABSTRACT TO ME. IT WAS PAINFULLY REAL. ACROSS BOSTON, MEAT INVESTED HEAVILY IN BIKE INFRASTRUCTURE TO MAKE OUR STREETS SAFER FOR CYCLISTS, FOR PEDESTRIANS, FOR
EVERYONE. WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW IS A GROWING MISMATCH BETWEEN THE PURPOSE OF THAT INFRASTRUCTURE AND HOW IT IS BEING USED. BIKE LANES ARE INCREASINGLY OCCUPIED BY DELIVERY VEHICLES MOPEDS TRAVELING AT HIGHER SPEEDS OFTEN WEAVING THROUGH
TRAFFIC AND SOMETIMES RIDING THE WRONG WAY AND FREQUENTLY USING SIDEWALKS ALL JUST AREN'T SCHEDULE AND MAXIMIZE DELIVERY. THIS ISN'T A THEORETICAL CONCERN IT'S SOMETHING THAT RESIDENTS EXPERIENCE EVERY DAY.
I SAW FOUR ON MY WALK TO THE TEE YESTERDAY. I DO NOT THINK THAT THE DRIVERS ARE ENTIRELY TO BLAME. THE CORE ISSUE HERE IS THE INCENTIVES OF FOOD DELIVERY DELIVERY PLATFORMS REWARD SPEED THE FASTER THE DELIVERY THE
MORE ORDERS COMPLETED IN THE MORE INCOME EARNED. THAT SYSTEM UNINTENTIONALLY PUSHES RIDERS TOWARDS RISKIER BEHAVIOR CUTTING THROUGH BIKE LANES, BYPASSING TRAFFIC RULES. BOSTON SHOULD NOT BE COMPLICIT
WITH ENABLING THOSE INCENTIVES BY TURNING OUR HEADS IN THE OTHER DIRECTION. IT IS NOT LOST ON ME THAT THIS LEGISLATION WILL AFFECT THE JOB SECURITY OF THESE MANY INDIVIDUALS SEEKING TO MAKE A LIVING AND PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILY.
SIMPLY SAYING THEY CAN BUY A CAR OR RIDE A BIKE WOULD BE SHORTSIGHTED AND NAIVE. HOWEVER, I BELIEVE THAT IS SUCH A CHANGE IS INEVITABLE AND ULTIMATELY POSITIONS THIS COUNCIL WITH TWO DECISIONS.
THE JOB SECURITY OF DELIVERY DRIVERS OR THE SAFETY OF BOSTONIANS. I TRUST THAT YOU WILL MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION IN THE BEST INTEREST OF OUR COMMUNITY. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU CHRISTIAN OKAY. AND UM, JUST FOR THIS ROUND OF PUBLIC TESTIMONY AGAIN WE'LL HAVE MORE. WE HAVE, UH, CARMEN I BELIEVE WITH LAST NAME BEGINNING WITH AN EX.
OH, CASSANDRA. OH. >> UH. I BELIEVE IT'S, UH. CASSANDRA. YEAH. >> IT'S CASSANDRA. YEAH, WE, UH. >> EXCUSE ME. CAN YOU RECALL THAT YOU'RE
READY? IT'S ALREADY RECORDING. HELLO, EVERYONE. I'M CASSANDRA. I'M A. RESIDENT OF THE NORTH END AND
I'M A DISABILITY ADVOCATE. WHILE I DO UNDERSTAND THAT. UM, PEOPLE HAVE THEIR JOBS AND THAT SORT OF STUFF THROUGH THE USING, UH, MOPEDS, BUT I OFTEN.
FIND IT. >> CONCERNING FOR THE SAFETY OF THOSE WHO ARE VULNERABLE WITH SOME OF THE MOPED USERS WHO DRIVE IN THE WRONG DIRECTION WHICH CAUSE PROBLEMS
FOR DRIVERS AND VULNERABLE PEDESTRIANS, CHILDREN AND SENIORS AND PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES WHICH IS THE MAIN CONCERN AS WELL. ALONG WITH THE ALREADY DEPLETED
INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE CITY. THE LAST THING WE NEED WOULD BE MOPED USERS WHO ARE NOT MINDFUL OR CONSIDERATE OF THE CURRENT SITUATION THAT WE'RE DEALING
WITH IN REGARDS TO THE STREETS INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. THE ROADS ARE ALREADY NARROW. THERE ARE BIKE LANES. WHY ARE THEY NOT USING THE BIKE
LANES INSTEAD OF THE WHY ARE THEY ON THE SIDEWALKS ALONG WITH THE THE PEDESTRIANS AS WELL? THAT'S A UM RATHER PERPLEXING THING THAT I OFTEN WONDER.
UM, OFTENTIMES ALMOST GETTING NIPPED BY A MOPED DRIVER. UM. >> I'VE LOST A COUPLE OF CANE TIPS BECAUSE OF THAT, BUT THANKFULLY I'VE ALWAYS BEEN FORTUNATE TO HAVE EXTRAS IN MY
BAG. BUT YOU KNOW, JUST A LITTLE REMINDER PLEASE BE CONSIDERATE OF THOSE ON THE SIDEWALK AND REMEMBER THAT YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE OUT AND ABOUT TRYING
TO GET TO PLACES. EVEN THOUGH WE DO RESPECT WHY YOU HAVE TO USE IT ESPECIALLY IF IT'S EMPLOYMENT PURPOSES. BUT JUST REMEMBER THERE ARE OTHERS OUTSIDE WHO ARE NOT
USING THOSE MOPEDS ALONG WITH YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE EVERYONE. WE APPRECIATE IT. WE'LL NOW TURN IT OVER TO THE ADMINISTRATION PANEL. THANKS.
>> UH, STARTING WITH. ME I SHOULD KNOW YOUR LAST NAME. CAPONE. MAYOR CAPONE. UM, DIRECTOR OF PARKING AND CURBSIDE MANAGEMENT FOR ANY OPENING REMARKS THAT YOU MAY HAVE. AND THEN WE'LL GO TO QUESTIONS
FROM MY COLLEAGUES. THANK YOU. >> UM. >> GOOD MORNING. MY NAME IS AMELIA OR MIA CAPONE . I AM THE DIRECTOR OF. PARKING AND. >> CURBSIDE MANAGEMENT. ALSO SERVING AS. >> THE CITY'S PARKING CLERK. I WOULD LIKE TO THANK. THE COUNCIL. FOR INVITING. >> ME TO. >> THIS HEARING TODAY TO
DISCUSS THE ORDINANCE TO AMEND THE CITY OF BOSTON CODE SECTION 17 DASH 22. ROAD SAFETY AND. ACCOUNTABILITY FOR. DELIVERY PROVIDERS. I LOOK FORWARD TO ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS.
YOU MAY HAVE. IN APRIL 2025 THIS COUNCIL TOOK A DECISIVE STEP. TOWARDS STREET. SAFETY BY PASSING THE ROAD SAFETY AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR DELIVERY PROVIDER ORDINANCE. WE BELIEVE THAT THE NEW
REQUIREMENTS WILL MEANINGFULLY INCREASE SAFE DRIVING BY DELIVERY WORKERS AND ALLOW THE STREETS CABINET TO BETTER RESPOND TO THE CHALLENGES CREATED BY THE GROWING DEMANDS OF DELIVERY.
THE EXISTING ORDINANCE WAS DESIGNED TO ADDRESS THE INCREASE IN DELIVERY RELATED SAFETY CONCERNS AND RATHER THAN A BLANKET BAN ON VEHICLE TYPES ,IT USES A DATA DRIVEN
ACCOUNTABILITY MODEL FOR THE FIRST TIME, DELIVERY APPS MUST ENSURE OPERATORS ARE COVERED BY THIRD PARTY LIABILITY INSURANCE AND OCCUPATIONAL ACCIDENT INSURANCE, INCLUDING THOSE WHO
DRIVE ELECTRIC AND MOTORIZED BICYCLES. THIS CREATES A DIRECT FINANCIAL INCENTIVE FOR COMPANIES TO PRIORITIZE SAFE UH SAFE DRIVING OVER SPEED. IN ADDITION, THROUGH THE
CURRENT POLICY, THE APPS WILL REPORT QUARTERLY ON DELIVERY ACTIVITIES ACROSS BOSTON STREETS, INCREASING VISIBILITY . INTO TRIP FREQUENCY, VEHICLE TYPES AND SPECIFIC DELIVERY ROUTES.
FOR THIS HIGH VOLUME DATA, WE WILL BE UTILIZING A STANDARDIZED MOBILITY DATA SPECIFICATION FOR EFFICIENT INGESTION AND ANALYSIS. ACCESS TO. THIS DATA WILL ALLOW THE
STREETS CABINET TO IDENTIFY THINGS LIKE HOTSPOTS AND HIGH RISK INTERSECTIONS TO TAILOR REGULATIONS AND. STRATEGIES BASED. >> ON ACTUAL USAGE PATTERNS AND. NEEDS LIKE FOR EXAMPLE,
EXPANDING PICKUP DROP OFF ZONES OUTSIDE OF HIGH DEMAND RESTAURANTS DURING PEAK HOURS AND THIS WILL ALLOW THE STREETS CABINET TO MOVE AWAY FROM BROAD GENERAL ENFORCEMENT TOWARDS TARGETED DEPLOYMENT AS REQUIRED
. WE ARE CURRENTLY IN THE CRITICAL TRANSITION FROM PERMIT APPLICATION TO ACTIVE ENFORCEMENT OF THIS ORDINANCE. THE APPLICATION PROCESS FOR
DELIVERY APPS WAS LAUNCHED ON FEBRUARY 11TH 2026. WE ARE ACTIVELY COLLABORATING WITH MAJOR PROVIDERS SUCH AS GRUBHUB, UBER EATS AND DOORDASH TO MEET THE TERMS OF THIS ORDINANCE.
AS OF TODAY, GRUBHUB IS PERMITTED. AND WE'RE WORKING TOGETHER ON THE TECHNICAL DATA REPORTING PROCESS. UBER EATS PERMIT APPLICATION HAS BEEN SUBMITTED AND IS
CURRENTLY UNDER REVIEW. UM AND WE CONTINUE TO TRACK OTHER PENDING APPLICATIONS FROM OTHER PROVIDERS SUCH AS DOORDASH. BUT AGAIN WE REMAIN IN COMMUNICATION AND COLLABORATION WITH THEM.
WE HAVE ALSO CONDUCTED OUTREACH AND EDUCATIONAL EFFORTS. WITH THE DELIVERY. WORKFORCE IN PARTICULAR TARGETING TWO WHEEL DRIVE TWO WHEELED DRIVERS WITH INFORMATION ON THE RULES OF THE ROAD.
AND I DID SHARE WITH SOME OF THE COUNCILORS A DELIVERY BOOKLET THAT WE HAVE DISTRIBUTED AND PUBLISHED ONLINE UM WITH EDUCATIONAL INFORMATION, FULL ENFORCEMENT
FOR NON-COMPLIANT PROVIDERS BEGINS NEXT WEEK APRIL OR EXCUSE ME THIS WEEK APRIL 11TH. >> 2026. AND WILL BE CONDUCTED IN COORDINATION WITH THE LAW DEPARTMENT AND AS STIPULATED BY THE ORDINANCE.
WHILE WE SHARE THE CABINET'S URGENCY REGARDING MOPED AND E-BIKE SAFETY, THE STREETS CABINET HAS SIGNIFICANT CONCERNS REGARDING THE PROPOSED AMENDMENT TO RESTRICT THESE VEHICLES ENTIRELY.
UM FIRST IN REGARDS TO CONGESTION AND AN ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT, SHIFTING DELIVERY BACK TOWARDS FOUR WHEEL VEHICLES WOULD COUNTERACT THE CITY'S LONG TERM GOAL OF REDUCING
TRAFFIC CHAOS AND CONGESTION, ESPECIALLY IN HIGH DENSITY AREAS LIKE BACK DAY. UM. IN ADDITION, IN REGARDS TO ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY AND ACCESSIBILITY, MICROMOBILITY
SERVES AS A LOW BARRIER ENTRY POINT FOR ACCESSIBLE JOBS. A TOTAL RESTRICTION MAY DISPROPORTIONATELY IMPACT LOW WAGE WORKERS WHO RELY ON THESE AFFORDABLE MODES OF TRANSPORT.
AND FINALLY, TO MAINTAIN ALIGNMENT WITH STATE RESEARCH AND BEST PRACTICES. AS NOTED IN THE MASSDOT SPECIAL COMMISSION ON MICROMOBILITY FINAL REPORT. THESE VEHICLES ARE ESSENTIAL
COMPONENTS OF A MODERN LAST MILE DELIVERY ECOSYSTEM. THE SOLUTION LIES IN REGULATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE NOT EXCLUSION. WE ARE JUST DAYS AWAY FROM FULL
ENFORCEMENT OF THE MOST ROBUST DELIVERY OVERSIGHT PROGRAM IN THIS COUNTRY. UM AND WE ASKED FOR THE COUNCIL'S SUPPORT AND ALLOWING THIS DATA DRIVEN FRAMEWORK TO WORK, ENABLING US TO USE HARD
DATA TO MANAGE OUR CURBS AND HOLD MULTIBILLION DOLLAR COMPANIES ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE SAFETY OF OUR RESIDENTS AND LOCAL DRIVERS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MIA.
OKAY. WE'LL GO TO QUESTIONS FROM MY COLLEAGUES. SIX MINUTES. AND THEN WE CAN DO A SECOND ROUND. STARTING WITH THE LEAD SPONSOR . AND WE'VE ALSO BEEN JOINED BY COUNCIL LOUIJEUNE. UH, COUNCILOR FLYNN, YOU HAVE
THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. I ALSO WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT I FILED AN ORDINANCE IN FEBRUARY TO REGULATE ALL E-BIKES IN
NOVEMBER AND 2025 MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS HAD NASH GENERAL HOSPITAL HIGHLIGHTED IN A BOSTON GLOBE ARTICLE THAT STATE LAW IS LIMITED IN ITS REGULATION OF E-BIKES DUE TO
THE LACK OF AGE RESTRICTIONS HELMET ENFORCEMENT LICENSING REQUIREMENT. THEY HIGHLIGHT A RECENT STUDY BY THE AMERICAN PUBLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION THAT FOUND ALMOST A
300% INCREASE INCREASE IN E-BIKE INJURIES AN 88% RISE IN POWERED SCOOTER INJURIES UM ACCORDING TO ANOTHER RECENT STUDY, E-BIKES ARE ABOUT 57%
MORE LIKELY TO GET INTO AN ACCIDENT THAN TRADITIONAL BIKE RIDERS. AND WE ALSO LEARNED FROM THE LETTER FROM THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT THERE WERE
ABOUT 500 CRASHES I GUESS OR ACCIDENTS UH, JUST OVER THE LAST YEAR. UM BUT MAYBE. LET ME FOLLOW UP ON SOME OF THE SOME OF THAT THOSE STATS DO WE
HAVE ANY UM NUMBERS IN TERMS OF HOW MANY UM E-BIKES AND MOPEDS WERE INVOLVED IN ACCIDENTS LAST YEAR? I KNOW THE BOSTON POLICE PUT SOMETHING OUT BUT IS THERE ANY ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU'RE
TRACKING? UM, COUNCILOR. >> I. DON'T HAVE. THAT NUMBER AT THIS TIME BUT I'D BE HAPPY TO LOOK INTO IT. UM. >> FOR YOU FOLLOWING THAT. OKAY. >> SO HEARING. DO WE DO WE KNOW IF, UM, BOSTON EMS HAS PUT ANY NUMBERS OUT ON
THAT? UH, I'M NOT SURE BUT AGAIN HAPPY TO LOOK INTO. >> THAT FOR YOU COUNCIL. OKAY. UM WELL MAYBE MAYBE MADAM CHAIR ,COULD I PUT A COUPLE
QUESTIONS ON ON THE RECORD? UM, SO COULD WE HAVE THE DATA ON THE NUMBER OF CRASHES FROM MOPEDS AND E-BIKES OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS? WHAT IS THE DATA AND STATISTICS
? IS THAT DATA BROKEN DOWN BY FOOD DELIVERY AS WELL? UM, DO WE KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE THAT HAVE HAD TO BE TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL IN AND OR
EMERGENCY ROOM OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS RELATING TO CRASHES WITH MOPEDS AND E-BIKES? UM. OKAY. LET ME ASK ANOTHER QUESTION.
UM. WE'LL HAVE THE MADAM CHAIR. HAVE THERE BEEN ANY CRIMINAL OR CIVIL CASES RELATING TO MOPEDS, E-BIKES AND OR FOOD DELIVERIES OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS?
UM. SO WHEN THIS NEW POLICY IS GOES INTO EFFECT, COULD YOU DISCUSS THE ROLE OF THE BOSTON POLICE
AS IT RELATES TO ENFORCEMENT AND HOW IT'S GOING TO BE IMPACTED BY UM, THE THE NUMBER OF POLICE OFFICERS ASSIGNED AT
A PARTICULAR TIME IN A IN A DISTRICT. YEAH. >> SO WHEN IT COMES TO ENFORCING THE EXISTING. ORDINANCE. >> WE WILL BE WORKING IN CLOSE COORDINATION WITH. THE LAW DEPARTMENT AND FOLLOWING THE ENFORCEMENT
STIPULATIONS UM, INCLUDED WITHIN THAT ORDINANCE. UM. >> SO THAT. >> IS THAT IS HOW WE WOULD PROCEED. I CANNOT SPEAK TO UM AT THIS MOMENT VPD ROLE IN THAT IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THE LAW DEPARTMENT UM.
PROVIDES GUIDANCE ON. OKAY. >> SO WE DON'T KNOW HOW THE BOSTON POLICE ARE GOING TO ENFORCE THE CURRENT UM AND THE CURRENT LAW THAT WILL BE IMPLEMENTED THIS WEEK. IS THAT ACCURATE?
UM, I THINK THE ROLE IT. MORE IT. >> LIES WITH THE LAW DEPARTMENT RATHER THAN BPD. OKAY I. UNDERSTANDING SO THIS IS IS THERE A LIMITED ROLE FOR THE BOSTON POLICE IS. THAT ACCURATE TO SAY.
THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING. OKAY SO SPECIFICALLY WHAT WOULD THE ROLE OF THE BOSTON POLICE BE IF IT'S IF IT'S LIMITED? UM MY UNDERSTANDING IS. THAT THE LAW DEPARTMENT WOULD
BE UM. TAKING UP THE. PROCESS FOR. ENFORCEMENT, UH, AS AS STIPULATED WITHIN THE ORDINANCE. I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE IS A ROLE FOR BPD ON THE STREETS TO
ENFORCE THIS AS THE ENFORCEMENT MECHANISMS WOULD BE APPLIED TOWARDS THE DELIVERY PROVIDER COMPANIES THROUGH THIS ORDINANCE RATHER THAN THE DELIVERY WORKERS THEMSELVES. SO IT WOULD BE UH IT.
WOULD BE ENFORCEMENT WITH THE COMPANIES UM, RATHER THAN THE DRIVERS ON THE STREETS. HAS THE LAW DEPARTMENT REACHED OUT TO THE PATROL OFFICERS AND
UM, PROVIDED THEM ANY GUIDANCE ON THE NEW LAW AND WHAT THEIR ROLES OR DUTIES ARE? UM, I I'M NOT ENTIRELY SURE BUT I WOULD BE. HAPPY TO LOOK INTO THAT AND CONFIRM WHAT COMMUNICATIONS
HAVE BEEN HAD WITH THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT AS IT RELATES TO THIS ORDINANCE IN THEIR ROLE. OKAY. >> DO WE KNOW IF THE BOSTON POLICE HAS PUT OUT A A MEMORANDUM AT ALL TO. NO. I'M SORRY. DO WE KNOW IF THE LAW
DEPARTMENT HAS PUT OUT A MEMORANDUM TO THE BOSTON POLICE ON WHAT THEY CAN EXPECT OR NOT EXPECT WITH THE NEW WITH THE NEW LAW? UM, I AM NOT AWARE, COUNSELOR, BUT I'M. HAPPY TO LOOK INTO THAT FOR
YOU. OKAY. >> I KNOW THEY I KNOW THEY SENT A LETTER TO US TODAY THE BOSTON POLICE UM THEY THEY. OKAY.
>> UM, DO WE KNOW FROM THE BOSTON POLICE ON THE NUMBER OF TICKETS ISSUED TO THIRD PARTY FOOD DELIVERIES MOPEDS OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS? UM, I DO NOT HAVE THAT NUMBER.
UH, AND I'M I'M. NOT SURE IF THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING. >> WE. WOULD BE ABLE TO CALCULATE AS WE. >> DO NOT. CURRENTLY COLLECT. INFORMATION ON. >> ENTERED INTO EXCUSE ME. INDIVIDUAL DELIVERY DRIVERS. OKAY. >> BUT I CAN LOOK INTO THAT FOR YOU, COUNCILOR. OKAY. >> THANK YOU.
UM MY MY MY CONCERN IS AND I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND THANK. >> YOU. FOR THE WORK YOU'RE DOING. I KNOW SOME CITY COUNCILORS WANT TO IGNORE THE PROBLEM OR PRETEND THAT IT DOESN'T EXIST,
BUT I'M JUST NOT WILLING TO ACCEPT THAT. I BELIEVE OUR STREETS AND SIDEWALKS ARE UNSAFE FOR PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES, FOR OUR SENIORS, FOR FOR ALL RESIDENTS. UM.
AND I NEED TO DO EVERYTHING I POSSIBLY CAN TO MAKE OUR SIDEWALKS AND STREETS SAFE FOR EVERYBODY. UM, THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FLYNN. COUNCILOR MURPHY. UM.
>> I'LL START. UM, AND THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND THANK YOU. TO THE PUBLIC WHO HAVE ALREADY SHARED SOME PUBLIC TESTIMONY. UM, THE FLIER THAT.
YOU HAD HANDED OUT HAS THIS BEEN SHARED YET OR IS THIS SOMETHING YOU'RE GOING TO SHARE ? UM. >> WE HAVE PUBLISHED IT ONLINE ON THE. ROAD, UH, ON THE ORDINANCE WEB PAGE. JUST ON THE ORDINANCE? YES. >> UH, AND WE HAVE ALSO.
UM HAS OR. WILL BE SHARING THAT WITH. THE DELIVERY DRIVER UNION TO. SUPPORT THE DISTRIBUTION. TO THEIR FOLKS. WHO THEY. >> WORK WITH. UM.
AND THEN THIS TRUE UM, THAT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU'RE A DELIVERY DRIVER OR NOT THAT THESE ARE ALL RULES THAT WE ALREADY KNOW ARE TRUE. CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. SO IF YOU'RE DRIVING A MOPED TO
GET TO WORK TO SCHOOL, TO GO VISIT YOUR GRANDMA BIKE OR FOOD SHOPPING OR. IF YOU'RE. >> WORKING LIKE. THESE X'S AND GREEN CHECKS ARE TRUE NO MATTER WHAT. THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. >> AND ANYWHERE ON THAT WEBSITE
BECAUSE I DO KNOW QUESTIONS COME UP ABOUT WHAT IS ACTUALLY CONSIDERED A UM MOTORCYCLE AND IS THERE CLEAR DEFINITION
BETWEEN WHAT A MOPED AND A MOTORCYCLE IS ON THE WEBSITE YOURS. SO UM YES, THERE IS UH, INFORMATION AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BOOKLET THAT PROVIDES A URL. UM FOR THE BOSTON.GOV.
TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT WHICH DEFINES UM MOTORIZED BIKES. MOPEDS AND SCOOTERS CLEARLY FOR . CONSTITUENTS TO BE AWARE OF. OKAY. >> AND ARE YOU AWARE. >> OR LIKE WITH THE UNION AND THE COMPANIES THAT ALL OF THIS
INFORMATION PROBABLY IS ALREADY WHAT THEY'RE FOLLOWING? I'M THAT. ALL THIS ISN'T NEW ENFORCEMENT I WOULD ASSUME THAT THE UNIONS AND THE COMPANIES ALREADY LET
ME MAKE SURE THAT ANYONE DRIVING FOR ONE OF THESE FOOD DELIVERY COMPANIES KNOWS THAT YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THE RULES OF WHATEVER CITY YOU'RE DRIVING
IN, CORRECT? UM. >> I THINK THIS ORDINANCE ISN'T GOING TO ALL OF A SUDDEN SAY WE HAVE RULES ON THE BOOK NOW YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THEM. THEY'VE ALWAYS HAD TO FOLLOW THE RULES OF THE ROAD. THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. OKAY. >> AND DO.
YOU KNOW, UM. THAT IT SAYS THE QUICK ANALYSIS SAID THAT 525 CRASHES WERE REPORTED WITH SCOOTERS. HOW MANY OF THOSE WERE FOOD
DELIVERY DRIVERS? UM, I DON'T HAVE THAT NUMBER, COUNSELOR, BUT I'D BE HAPPY TO LOOK INTO IT. I'LL ALSO JUST SHARE THAT THERE ARE. SOME COMPLEXITIES IN IDENTIFYING WHETHER SOMEONE IS . JUST DRIVING. >> THEIR. MOPED FOR.
OTHER REASONS. VERSUS WHETHER THEY'RE ACTIVELY ON THE CLOCK WORKING FOR A DELIVERY COMPANY. SO UM, I'M HAPPY TO LOOK INTO. IT AND SEE IF WE HAVE THAT SPECIFIC SPECIFICITY IN THE CURRENT DATA. UM, BUT AGAIN IT IS SOMETHING
WILL HAVE MUCH BETTER DATA MOVING FORWARD THROUGH THE EXISTING ORDINANCE AND THE DATA COLLECTION PROCESS. >> THAT WAS DEFINITELY A BIG PART OF THE CONVERSATION LAST YEAR WHEN WE WERE WORKING THROUGH THIS ORDINANCE ABOUT WHEN.
WHEN ARE YOU ON THE CLOCK AND WHEN ARE YOU WAITING. >> TO GET A. CALL BECAUSE IT'S NOT LIKE THESE DELIVERY DRIVERS WORK UH, CLEAR LIKE 8 TO 4 AND 9 TO 5 JOB.
AND I WOULD SAY MOST OF THEM IF THEY OWN A MOPED OR INVESTED IN A MOTORIZED SCOOTER OR AN E-BIKE THEY'RE ALSO USING IT FOR THEIR LIFE LIKE THEY USE IT FOR BOATS. EXACTLY. >> OKAY. >> UM I DO JUST WANT TO
HIGHLIGHT A COUPLE THINGS THAT THE LETTER STATES. UM, AND IT SEEMS TO ME IF I'M READING IT CORRECTLY THAT THE POLICE ARE UM, CONCERNED ABOUT
THE UPCOMING CHANGES BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THE EFFECTIVE PUBLIC SAFETY DEPENDS ON STRONG COMMUNITY RELATIONSHIPS IN ADDITION TO ENFORCEMENT BUILDING THAT IN MAINTAINING
TRUST WITH THE COMMUNITY AND THAT IS THE MISSION OF THE COMMUNITY POLICING. WE HAD A HEARING JUST YESTERDAY. UM, ON THE SUMMER SAFETY PLAN AND THE POLICE WERE HERE TO
TALK ABOUT YOU KNOW, HOW THAT THAT CONTINUES TO BE ONE OF THEIR BIGGEST CONCERNS. THIS PROPOSAL TO BAN THE MOPEDS AND SCOOTERS FOR USE. UM IT'S JUST QUESTIONING LIKE
ARE THEY ABLE TO OR WILL THEY WANT TO. SO I THINK MAYBE WE NEED TO JUST REACH OUT PERSONALLY TO THE POLICE BUT IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF THEY WERE HERE TO KIND OF EXPLAIN WHAT CONCERNS
THEY ACTUALLY DO HAVE. UM, ESPECIALLY IF THIS JUST GOES INTO EFFECT UM, AND WITH THE DATA WHAT DATA ARE WE ALREADY COLLECTING? I KNOW FROM BEING AT THOSE
MEETINGS LAST YEAR THAT WE WANTED MORE KIND OF PERSONAL DATA ABOUT PLACES WHERE PEOPLE WERE PICKING UP OR NOT AND SOME OF THE BUSINESSES WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. BUT WHAT DATA ARE WE CURRENTLY
USING AND SHARING WHEN THE. TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT? BECAUSE WE'RE. >> ALWAYS LOOKING AT HOTSPOTS NO MATTER IF THEY'RE FOOD DELIVERY DRIVERS OR SCHOOL BUS PICK UP AND DROP OFF AND SPOTS AROUND THE CITY.
SO WHAT DATA DO WE USE NOW? UM, WHEN IT. COMES TO LIKE. SPECIFICALLY REGULATING DELIVERY. PROVIDERS, UM. WE ARE VERY EXCITED. TO HAVE THE DATA. STIPULATED THROUGH THIS
ORDINANCE. WE DON'T HAVE ANY SORT OF DATA AT THIS LEVEL OR GRANULARITY AND. COULD YOU TALK THROUGH THEM WHAT YOU'LL DO WITH THAT DATA ONCE YOU GET IT? YEAH ABSOLUTELY. SO I THINK UM AGAIN.
THERE'S TWO. GOALS OF THE COLLECTING DATA IN THE ORDINANCE. I THINK ONE WE. REALLY WANT TO SUPPORT UNDERSTAND THE IMPACT. OF THIS POLICY. SO WE AIM TO BE LOOKING AT
BASELINE DATA ON UM RESIDENT COMPLAINTS THROUGH 311 AND THROUGH OTHER CHANNELS REGARDING THE SAFETY UM OF DELIVERY DRIVERS. UH, SO WE AIM TO BE TRACKING THAT. OVER TIME. >> AS THE POLICY IS ROLLED OUT.
>> AND IMPLEMENTED TO. SEE IF THERE IS A DECREASE IN SAFETY CONCERNS OR PERCEPTION OF SAFETY BY RESIDENTS. UM, IN ADDITION TO ACTUALLY LOOKING AT REAL SAFETY UM. DATA ON ACCIDENTS AND
NEAR-MISSES. UM IN ADDITION WE'LL HAVE OTHER. ACTIVITY DATA. ON DELIVERY UM ACTIONS GOING ON ACROSS THE CITY WHICH. >> UM AS YOU MENTIONED WILL ALLOW US TO. BETTER UNDERSTAND WHERE THERE
ARE HOTSPOTS AND PEAK UM AREAS OF CONCERN. >> WHICH WILL ALLOW US TO. USE A TAILOR ENFORCEMENT. STRATEGIES SO THAT. UM, EITHER PARKING ENFORCEMENT OR BPD COULD SUPPORT AND
GENERALLY REINFORCING EXISTING RULES OF THE ROAD UM BUT ALSO IT WILL ALLOW US TO DEVELOP BETTER STRATEGIES FOR. CURBSIDE MANAGEMENT TO ENSURE. THAT. >> YOU KNOW, PERHAPS AT PEAK HOURS AT A HIGH DEMAND RESTAURANT THERE ARE MORE UM,
PICK UP DROP OFF ZONES FOR. DELIVERY DRIVERS. >> TO BE ABLE TO PULL SAFELY OVER AND NOT CREATE DOUBLE PARKING OR ADDITIONAL SAFETY CONCERNS ON THE ROADS OR SIDEWALKS. SO THE STREETS CABINET NICK GOVE WHO I SEE WAS ALSO INVITED
TO BE HERE THEY'RE PLANNING ON BEEFING UP STAFFING AND ENFORCEMENT AT THESE SPOTS. THAT IS OUR INTENTION IS TO DO TARGETED ENFORCEMENT IN USING
THIS DATA TO UM, REALLY FOCUS OUR EFFORTS MOST EFFICIENTLY. >> AND WE HAVE THE STAFFING AND RESOURCES TO DO THAT. WE HAVE UM YES, WE HAVE A WONDERFUL ENFORCEMENT TEAM UH, BTD NO.
>> OF COURSE WE DO. BUT THEY'RE ALREADY OUT THERE WORKING EVERY DAY NOW SO THIS WOULD BE ADDED I'M SAYING WE HAVE BUDGETED AND PLANNED FOR AN ADDITIONAL EXPECTATION. YES, COUNCILOR.
UM AND I THINK AGAIN THIS WILL ALLOW US TO TARGET OUR RESOURCES MOST EFFICIENTLY RATHER THAN DOING BROAD GENERAL. ENFORCEMENT OF THIS. THESE AREAS WILL BE ABLE TO REALLY FOCUS ON WHEN WE SEE THE
DEMAND AND THE NEED AND USE OUR ENFORCEMENT UM RESOURCES TO THE. BEST OUT THERE. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. UH, COUNCILOR DURKAN. THANK YOU SO MUCH, CHAIR. UM, I JUST WANT TO GET RIGHT INTO IT.
UM, YOU MENTIONED THAT UBEREATS AND GRUBHUB, UM, ARE MOVING TOWARDS COMPLIANCE BUT YOU DOORDASH IS OBVIOUSLY THAT HAS THE BIGGEST MARKET SHARE IN BOSTON WHERE WHAT HAS BEEN THE CONVERSATIONS WITH DOORDASH?
YEAH. >> OUR. CONVERSATIONS WITH. >> DOORDASH HAVE BEEN VERY PRODUCTIVE. UM WE HAVE BEEN. COLLABORATING WITH. >> DOORDASH LIKE FROM THE IMPLEMENTATION SIDE. UH. >> THAT IS MY ROLE. IN THE FOCUS OF MY ROLE. WE'VE BEEN COLLABORATING SINCE
LAST FALL, UM, HELP THEM UNDERSTAND THE REQUIREMENTS IN THE ORDINANCE AND ENSURE THAT THEY ARE PREPARED TO MEET THE, UM, PERMIT REQUIREMENTS. SO WHAT WILL HAPPEN ON APRIL
11TH IF THEY DO NOT FILL OUT AN APPLICATION FOR A PERMIT? IF THEY DO NOT FILL OUT AN APPLICATION FOR A PERMIT ON APRIL 11TH, WE WILL START WORKING WITH THE LAW DEPARTMENT TO ENFORCE IT AS STIPULATED IN THE ORDINANCE.
GOT IT. UM, SO MY PRIORITY HERE IS THAT THE ORDINANCE THAT WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS THAT WE WORKED ON THAT WENT THROUGH A TREMENDOUS PROCESS ACTUALLY BE IMPLEMENTED AND I THINK THAT'S YOUR GOAL AS
WELL HAVING MET WITH YOU. I'M CURIOUS, UM, THE STATE COMMISSIONER UM, THAT YOU REFERENCED UM OUR OFFICE HAS READ THROUGH IT UM, THAT WAS LONG AWAITED THAT MICROMOBILITY
REPORT. UM, I KNOW YOU MENTIONED, UH THAT ANY THAT THIS SPECIFIC, UM, LANGUAGE THAT'S BEING BROUGHT FORWARD HERE AS AN
AMENDMENT UM, WOULD BE COUNTER TO THOSE GOALS OUTLINED. UM, CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT? AND UM, SPECIFICALLY THE CITY OF BOSTON'S POSITION IN DOING A MODE SHIFT BACK TO CARS OVER
MICROMOBILITY? YEAH. >> UM, THE SHIFT TO UTILIZING MICROMOBILITY METHODS OF TRANSPORT UM, IS WE BELIEVE
REDUCING CONGESTION UH, AS UM IT IS ALLOWING FOR THEM TO USE OTHER LANES OF TRAVEL AND UM, YOU KNOW, I BELIEVE AS WELL UM, IT IS A ACCESSIBLE. UH.
>> JOB THAT ALLOWS FOR THIS INDUSTRY TO PROVIDE THE CRITICAL SERVICES OUR RESIDENTS NEED. AND WHAT DO YOU THINK THE PERCEIVED, UM, IMPACT OF THE ORDINANCE THAT WE PASSED, UM,
WILL BE GIVEN? UM, UH, I'M JUST CURIOUS, UM, YOU KNOW, AS WE MOVE TOWARDS IMPLEMENTATION OF THE ORDINANCE THAT WE PASSED, UM, ARE THERE
ARE THERE GIVEN THE INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS GIVEN THE LICENSING REQUIREMENTS, UM, WHICH ARE REALLY IMPORTANT I MEAN WILL THEY'LL ROLL LIKE STARTING APRIL 11TH STARTING
WILL THERE BE DRIVERS THAT ARE NO LONGER ABLE TO OPERATE AS THIRD-PARTY DELIVERY DRIVERS AND HOW IS THAT WHAT IS THAT GOING TO LOOK LIKE IF THEY DO NOT RECEIVE A LICENSE AND IF THEY ARE IF THEY'RE NOT LICENSED AND THEY'RE NOT
INSURED AND HOW ARE WE MOVING TOWARDS COMPLIANCE ON THE INSURANCE AND WITH THE COMPANIES? UM SO UH SORRY I'M GOING TO TRY TO ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS AND FEEL FREE TO REMIND ME IF I MISSED ONE. UM, I'LL START WITH THE LAST
ONE FIRST. UM, AS A PART OF THE PERMIT APPLICATION, THEY MUST SUBMIT PROOF OF INSURANCE IN THE FORM OF A CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE UM, LIABILITY THAT STIPULATES
THE TYPE OF VEHICLES THAT ARE COVERED BY THE INSURANCE. THIS ORDINANCE THAT WAS PASSED LAST YEAR REQUIRES THAT AUTOMOBILES, ELECTRIC BICYCLES AND MOTORIZED BICYCLES BEING
COVERED BY BOTH UM THIRD PARTY LIABILITY AND OCCUPATIONAL ACCIDENT INSURANCE. IT ALSO STIPULATES THE TIME UM OF ACTIVITY BY WHICH THE DRIVER NEEDS TO BE COVERED.
SO THE ENGAGED STATUS UM AND THEN IT ALSO STIPULATES THE COVERAGE AMOUNTS AS REQUIRED BY THE ORDINANCE UM FOR THOSE DIFFERENT TYPES OF INSURANCES. SO WE ARE CLOSELY REVIEWING THE SUBMITTED PROOF OF INSURANCE AS
WELL AS THE REQUIRED DISCLOSURES THAT THEY MUST MAKE TO THEIR DRIVERS TO EXPLAIN WHAT IS OR IS NOT COVERED UM BY THE COMPANY PROVIDED INSURANCE SO THAT THE DRIVERS ARE FULLY AWARE OF UM THEIR RIGHTS AND
ACCESS. GOT IT. >> AND UM I MEAN I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF CONVERSATION ABOUT THE TOOLS AND UH, THE RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE AT OUR FINGERTIPS UH, THE 15 CENT FEE PER
DELIVERY ORDER THAT I PUT FORWARD UM, IN THE COMMITTEE PROCESS, UM, WOULD HAVE GENERATED, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN 2 AND $5 MILLION. HOW WOULD THAT HAVE HELPED WITH
IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS ORDINANCE? I THINK THERE ARE, UM, POTENTIAL PROS AND CONS, COUNCILOR UM, WITH THE 15%, UH, FEE I THINK YOU MENTIONED THE REVENUE COLLECTOR.
I'M SURE THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. UM, I DO THINK THERE ARE CERTAIN LIKE OPERATIONAL CHALLENGES TO, UM, BEING ABLE TO AUDIT THAT THAT IS HAPPENING ACROSS ALL ORDERS.
IN THE EMERSON TEST, MAKING SURE THAT THAT REVENUE WAS ACTUALLY USED ON IMPLEMENTATION OF THE ORDINANCE AND NOTHING ELSE BECAUSE WE AREN'T ALLOWED TO INSTITUTE ANY TAX. WITHOUT STATE APPROVAL. SURE, SURE. AND I'M THINKING MORE FROM LIKE
THE UM KIND OF LIKE THE OPERATIONAL SIDE UH, YOU KNOW, MY TEAM WOULD HAVE PROBABLY BEEN REQUIRED TO COLLECT THAT FINE AND THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF UH, NEW POTENTIALLY UH
PROCESSES WE WOULD HAVE TO CREATE TO BE ENSURING THAT WE ARE TRACKING AND RECEIVING THAT CORRECTLY. BUT IN A TIME WHEN WE HAVE LESS AND LESS RESOURCES IT SEEMS TO ME THAT AND YOU KNOW WHAT I
SAID IT ON THE COUNCIL FLOOR AND I'LL SAY IT AGAIN UH, THE LOBBYIST WON BY NOT IMPLEMENTING A FEE BECAUSE IT'S SO CLEAR TO ME THAT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT STAFFING, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT POLICING,
WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GETTING PEOPLE OUT TO THE SPECIFIC SITES WHERE THERE ARE ISSUES THAT THESE THIRD PARTY DELIVERY COMPANIES ARE CHARGING . UM, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE THEY'RE CAUSING UM IT'S CLEAR TO ME THAT A COUPLE EXTRA MILLION
DOLLARS WOULD HAVE BEEN HELPFUL . SO UM AND IT WAS CLEAR TO PEOPLE IN THE ADMINISTRATION AS WELL. I THINK IT'S JUST IT'S HARD TO UH IT'S HARD TO ADVOCATE FOR THE RISE IN COST OF ANYTHING AS
AN ELECTED OFFICIAL. BUT I DO THINK WE NEED TO UH IF WE'RE GOING TO OPEN THIS BACK UP, I JUST WANT TO SAY AND I WANT TO PUT ON THE RECORD THAT IF WE'RE OPENING UP THIS ORDINANCE AGAIN, I WILL BE
PROPOSING A FEE AGAIN BECAUSE IT'S TO ME IT'S RIDICULOUS THAT WE ARE CONTINUING TO LET COMPANIES DRIVE THE PROCESS AND UM AND I MEAN, I IF YOU'VE EVER
ORDERED ANYTHING FROM ANY OF THESE THIRD PARTY DELIVERY COMPANIES, YOU KNOW THERE ARE MULTIPLE DOLLARS WORTH OF FEES SO $0.15 PER ORDER WOULD HAVE NOT MADE A DIFFERENCE TO THE CONSUMER.
SO I WANT TO THANK THE CHAIR AND I WANT TO THANK MY COLLEAGUES FOR BEING ACTIVE IN THIS CONVERSATION. THANK YOU COUNCILOR DRINKING UH COUNCILOR FITZGERALD. COUNCIL PRESENT WAS HERE.
OH I APOLOGIZE COUNCILOR PERSON . THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. THANK YOU. FITZ. UM, SO JUST OFF THE RACK UH, OFF THE BOOK FOR ME.
IT'S, UM I'M NOT A BIG FAN OF JUST BLANKET BANS ON ANYTHING. I THINK THAT THERE'S A LOT MORE CONVERSATION THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE BEFORE WE TAKE SUCH, UM, DRASTIC MEASURE INTO CONSIDERATION.
HOWEVER, I AM GRATEFUL BECAUSE I DO THINK IT DOES TRIGGER A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS AND CONVERSATIONS THAT WE NEED TO BE HAVING. AND WITH THAT I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE'S TWO REALITIES THAT EXIST.
I THINK THAT THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE AS A REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE BOSTON CYCLISTS UNION MENTIONED THAT DEPEND ON THESE MODES OF TRANSPORTATION FOR OUR WELL-BEING TO PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE.
HOWEVER, AT THE SAME TIME, LIKE ANY OTHER MODES OF TRANSPORTATION INCLUDING PEOPLE THAT DRIVE CARS, PEOPLE THAT VIOLATE THE LAW. AND FOR ME IT'S HOW DO WE HAVE THE CONVERSATION OF FINDING THE
MIDDLE GROUND OF SAYING. UM HMM. HOW DO WE KEEP LESS CARS OFF THE ROADS? BECAUSE I DO THINK IF WE WERE TO BAN THIS WOULD PUT MORE CARS ON THE ROAD. BUT ALSO HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT PEOPLE STOP VIOLATING THE
TRAFFIC LAWS? THAT ALSO MEANS THAT I BELIEVE IN BOSTON WE HAVE AN INFRASTRUCTURE PROBLEM. WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO IMPROVE OUR STREETS AND MAKE SURE THAT IT'S A IT'S MULTIMODAL FRIENDLY
FOR ALL MODES OF TRANSPORTATION. I THINK THAT ALSO THE LETTER FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND ALSO YOUR COMMENTS AS WELL
THERE ARE RIGHT PROPER STEPS IN PLACE THAT HAVEN'T EVEN HAPPENED YET AND I'M VERY CURIOUS AND EXCITED TO SEE HOW WILL THIS BE IMPLEMENTED. AND I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE TO
HAVE EVEN A STRONGER CONVERSATION AT A STATE LEVEL WHEN IT COMES TO INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS. UM, FOR THOSE THAT ARE DRIVING IF IT'S A MOPED OR OR OTHER THINGS I KNOW THAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE VERY DIFFERENT
DEPENDING ON MODES OF TRANSPORTATION BUT WHAT I WANT TO ALSO WHAT I WANT US TO GET OUT OF THIS CONVERSATION IS THAT I EVENTUALLY I ALSO WANT TO HEAR FROM THOSE THAT DRIVE
MOPEDS. I DON'T KNOW IF THE AD DRIVERS UNIONS REPRESENT THEM. UM. IF NOT I KNOW THAT COUNCILOR FLYNN AND I AND COUNCILOR MIKE HERE WE'RE ACTUALLY PART OF A MOPED TASK
FORCE, UM, WHERE WE'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY WHO DO HAVE COMMUNICATE WHO DO HAVE PARTNERSHIPS OR DIRECT COMMUNICATION WITH THOSE THAT DEPEND ON EITHER A MOPED OR A
SCOOTER. SO I THINK THAT WE NEED TO SOMEHOW LOOP THEM INTO THE CONVERSATION AS WELL BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT SETTING STANDARDS AND PRACTICES BECAUSE.
BEFORE WE JUST SAY LET'S GET RID OF ALL OF THEM, I THINK WE NEED TO SHOW THEM THERE'S AN ISSUE HERE. HOW CAN WE ALL LEARN FROM WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE? SO IT'S A SAFER CITY FOR
EVERYONE BECAUSE IT'S IT WOULD BE IGNORANT OF ME TO IGNORE THE FACT THAT THERE ARE INCIDENTS THAT OCCUR ON THE STREETS AND HAVE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN HURT. I'VE SEEN IT MYSELF BUT I THINK
THAT BEFORE WE DIVE SO DRASTICALLY AND THIS IS IN OUR BASTIAN COUNCILOR FLYNN, I THINK THAT HE'S DOING HIS JOB AS WELL BECAUSE I KNOW THAT HIS DISTRICT IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN MY DISTRICT. SO THIS IS AN INVITATION MAYBE
TO COUNCILOR FLYNN AND TO ANY ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES. SO LET'S BRING EVERYONE TO THE TABLE AND SEE WHAT'S GOING ON. NOW I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU IN TERMS OF TICKETING AND
ENFORCEMENT AND JUST IN GENERAL IN THE CITY OF BOSTON, LIKE I KNOW THAT AS A DRIVER IF YOU DRIVE A FOUR WHEEL VEHICLE AND YOU HAVE CONSISTENT VIOLATIONS ,YOUR LICENSE COULD BE REVOKED
AND YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO DRIVE ANYMORE DEPENDING ON HOW MANY FLAGS YOU GET. IS THERE SIMILAR PROTOCOLS FOR MOPED DRIVERS? YES. >> SO AT THIS TIME UM AS MOPED DRIVERS UH IN RECENT YEARS ARE NOW REQUIRED TO HAVE A LICENSE
PLATE THAT DOES ALLOW FOR US TO BETTER, UH, ENFORCE AND TRACK ENFORCEMENT, UM, FOR THOSE VEHICLE TYPES IN THOSE OWNERS. SO YES, WE DO TICKET MOPED VEHICLES AS WELL, UM, AND HAVE
OTHER ENFORCEMENT MECHANISMS TO, UH, EITHER REMOVE THEM FROM THE STREET UM IF NECESSARY OR UM, PUT HOLDS ON THEIR REGISTRATIONS AT THE R&B. AND THE YOU GUYS I KNOW YOU MAY
NOT HAVE IT IN FRONT OF YOU RIGHT NOW BUT DO YOU HAVE YOU BEEN ABLE TO TRACK HOW MANY TIMES YOU KNOW YOU A BOSTON POLICE OFFICER LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER HAS BEEN ABLE TO TAKE A
BECAUSE OF A MOPED VIOLATION ETC. DOES THAT DATA EXIST? UM I I BELIEVE WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET THAT DATA. UM I WON'T NECESSARILY BE ABLE TO SAY WHETHER THEY WERE ACTIVELY DELIVERING BUT I COULD
PROVIDE UM COULD LOOK INTO AND PROVIDE DATA ON MOPED UH, VIOLATIONS OKAY. IN PARTICULAR. YEAH. AND I THINK. >> THAT THAT DISTINCTION IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE MY CONCERN IS THAT THERE IS A HARD WORKING
INDIVIDUAL OUT THERE THAT IS USING A MOPED AND IS FOLLOWING THE LAW TO PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO GET IMPACTED BECAUSE OF OTHER FOLKS
THAT ARE FILING THE LAW. SO THAT IS WHY I THINK THOSE TWO DISTINCTIONS ARE SO IMPORTANT. AND IF YOU HAVE THE DATA AND THE THE BREAKDOWN, IT'S VERY HELPFUL FOR US TO SEE THAT ON THE COUNCIL AS WELL.
YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. I SHARE THOSE CONCERNS. COUNCILOR UM AND I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO HAVING BETTER DATA THROUGH THE ORDINANCE THIS GROUP PASSED LAST YEAR AND I THINK IT WILL HELP US ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS WITH A LOT MORE FLAHERTY.
THANK YOU. UM, THAT'S REALLY IT FOR ME IN TERMS OF QUESTIONS LIKE I SAID, I LIKE RESPECTFULLY TO COUNCILOR FLYNN AND MY COLLEAGUE AS IT IS AT THE MOMENT I DON'T SEE MYSELF
SUPPORTING A BLANKET BAN JUST IMMEDIATELY. I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE MORE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT HOW COULD WE LEARN FROM WHAT MOVEMENT DRIVERS ARE DOING, WHAT
DIFFERENT UM WHAT THE WHAT THE APPS ARE ACTUALLY HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE TO DO I ALSO WANT TO SEE THIS BE IMPLEMENTED. I WANT TO SEE US BE A MONTH IN OR TWO MONTH IN OF THIS TO SEE
WHAT HAPPENS. OF COURSE THE THE. THE CONVERSATION I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO SEE MAYBE BOSTON POLICE OFFICERS HERE AS WELL UM AND MAYBE SOME PARKING ENFORCEMENT. I KNOW YOU WERE SEEING THEM WITH THE PARKING ENFORCEMENT
OFFICERS TO HEAR THEIR EXPERIENCE AS WELL, BUT THAT'S THAT'S IT FOR ME. MADAM CHAIR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE. THANK YOU SO MUCH TO MY COLLEAGUE COUNCILOR FLYNN BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, RIGHT, IT'S ALL ABOUT HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS AND LEARNING WHAT WE CAN LEARN FROM
WHAT THE REALITY IS FROM OUR RESIDENTS. SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR BENTON COUNCILOR. FITZGERALD THANK YOU I APOLOGIZE WE'VE BEEN DRY MY COUNCILOR WORRELL. SORRY I. THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR.
UM MAYOR THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY A. QUESTION DO WE KNOW WHAT NUMBER . OF MOPEDS ARE USED? WELL I GUESS IS THERE DO WE KNOW WHAT THE NUMBER OF OVERALL MOPEDS IN THE CITY ARE AT THE MOMENT?
AND IF IT'S BROKEN DOWN BETWEEN BUSINESS USE AND RECREATIONAL USE. UM. >> I BELIEVE WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO PULL THE NUMBER OF MOPEDS REGISTERED TO BOSTON ADDRESSES. UM, I WILL HAVE TO LOOK INTO THAT AND FOLLOW UP.
UM, AT THIS TIME I DON'T BELIEVE WE'D BE ABLE TO SAY DISTINCTIVELY WHETHER THEY'RE BEING USED FOR COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES OR NOT. BUT AGAIN, FROM THE DATA WE WILL HAVE MUCH BETTER VISIBILITY INTO WHAT PERCENTAGE
DELIVERIES ARE BEING CONDUCTED BY TWO WHEELED VEHICLES SUCH AS MOPEDS. UNDERSTOOD. >> UM, AND I HEARD YOU SAY EARLIER IF UH TYPICALLY THE COMPANY IS CHARGED IF THE IF
THE VEHICLE IS UH, YOU KNOW, UH I THINK YOU WERE REFERRING TO IF ANY SORT OF ENFORCEMENT OR ACCOUNTABILITY WAS HELD THE COMPANY IS THE ONE THAT IS REALLY BASED IS DOES THAT MEAN
THAT WE CAN'T HOLD THE INDIVIDUAL DRIVING THE MOPED ACCOUNTABLE IF HE OR SHE IS GOING TO BREAK TRAFFIC LAWS OR DOES THAT ALL GO. TO THE COMPANY? UM, NO. SO THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT.
UM THE UM EXCUSE ME THE ENFORCEMENT OF THIS ORDINANCE, THE ROAD SAFETY AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR DELIVERY PROVIDERS THE ORDINANCE ITSELF WOULD BE ENFORCED AT THE COMPANY LEVEL WHEN IT COMES TO
,UH, UNSAFE DRIVING BEHAVIORS ON THE STREET OF BOSTON. THOSE CAN AND SHOULD BE ENFORCED AT ANY OPPORTUNITY WHETHER THEY ARE DELIVERING OR NOT. UM THERE IS AND UM WE ARE
HOPING TO INCREASE AWARENESS OF THE RULES OF THE ROAD AS WELL THROUGH SOME OF OUR OUTREACH IN RELATION TO THIS POLICY. OKAY. >> SO TO ME IT SEEMS THAT IT'S . ONE TO A.
MORE OVERALL GENERAL QUESTION WHICH IS IN ADAPTING TO THE RAPIDLY CHANGING CULTURES OF BOTH BUSINESS AND UH, CIVILIAN MOBILITY. UM, SHOULD WE EMBRACE IT OR NOT?
AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT COUNCILOR FLYNN'S UH, PROPOSAL IS ABOUT. I MEAN, ARE WE EMBRACING THE MOPED OR NOT IN THIS CITY? BUT TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION FULLY TO COUNCILOR FOR PENN'S POINT, I THINK THERE ARE SOME
OTHER QUESTIONS WE HAVE TO ANSWER WHICH IS THE ENFORCEMENT OR PROBABLY MORE IMPORTANTLY AT THIS MOMENT THE CAPACITY FOR ENFORCEMENT, UH, VERSUS THE COMMON COURTESY AND COMMON
COURTESY AND SAFETY UH, COMPONENT OF THIS WHICH UH BE IT TWO WHEELS OR FOUR WHEELS. I THINK WE ALL HAVE THE ANECDOTAL STORIES THAT COMMON COURTESY AND SAFETY UH, IN
TRAVELING UH IS IS TRENDING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. UM AND THAT COUPLED WITH LACK OF THE CAPACITY FOR ENFORCEMENT FOR THAT TYPE OF STUFF, IT'S SORT OF GOING BACK TO THE
ORIGINAL QUESTION SHOULD WE EMBRACE IT BUT ARE WE READY TO EMBRACE IT? SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS TO HAVE. UH, IT'S DIFFICULT TO JUST ALLOW A CULTURE TO TAKE PLACE WITHOUT FIRST PUTTING IN SOME
SOME GUARDRAILS. UM, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT SORT OF OCCURRED HERE AND WE'RE PLAYING CATCH UP. UH, AND THAT'S WHY YOU HEAR SOME OF THE TESTIMONY AND UH, THE INCIDENTS THAT OCCUR IN THE
ACCIDENTS WE SEE. UM, BUT AS WE ALL KNOW TOO I MEAN, YOU COULD APPLY THIS TO ANYTHING PEOPLE'S ATTITUDE AND COMMON COURTESY AND GENERAL SAFETY TOWARDS OTHERS, UH, AND
AND HOW THEY ACT, UM IS CERTAINLY SHOWING ITSELF IN THIS TOO BECAUSE I, I WE COULD ALL HAVE THE ANECDOTAL INSTANCE SO UM BUT I'D REALLY LIKE TO
FOCUS ON THE PAST THE CAPACITY FOR ENFORCEMENT BECAUSE I THINK UM, IF. WE CAN GO OUT TO OUR CONSTITUENTS AND SAY HERE'S WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, HERE'S HOW WE'RE GOING TO KEEP. >> YOU. SAFE. >> HERE'S HOW.
UH, ANY MOPED OR TWO WHEELED ELECTRIC SCOOTER UH, BE IT FOR BUSINESS OR CIVILIAN USE UH, HERE'S HOW WE'RE GOING TO HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE TO KEEPING THE GENERAL PUBLIC SAFE.
I THINK THAT THERE'S MORE COMFORTABILITY THERE FOR PEOPLE TO ACCEPT THIS CULTURE THE MORE ,YOU KNOW, INGRAINED INTO HOW WE'RE GOING TO DO THINGS. UM, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S READY FOR THAT YET.
SO I THINK WE HAVE A LOT MORE CONVERSATION TO DO. I KNOW THE FEES, I KNOW THE INSURANCE. UM AND I KNOW THE ENFORCEMENT ARE SORT OF A LOT OF THINGS THAT CAN ALL PLAY INTO THIS.
UM, BUT I, UH, YOU KNOW, ALSO EXCITED TO HAVE FURTHER CONVERSATION ABOUT IT. I DON'T KNOW IF A BLANKET BAN ON MOPEDS IS THE IS THE CORRECT ANSWER AT THE MOMENT. UM, GIVEN WE MIGHT BE TOO FAR
DOWN THE LINE ALREADY. UM, BUT THERE IS CERTAINLY A LOT WE CAN DO UH, TO SORT OF SELF-CORRECT THE THE EMBRACING OF THIS CULTURE AND
MAKE SURE THAT IT FITS IN WITH THE GENERAL SAFETY, UM, AND BUSINESSES UH, HERE IN THE CITY. SO UH I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, BUT I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND MADAM CHAIR, THANK YOU.
THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FITZGERALD . COUNCILOR LOUIJEUNE AND THEN COUNCIL MEMBER. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. AND THANK YOU TO THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO TESTIFIED AND WHO UM, ELEVATED THE. IMPORTANCE OF THIS. DISCUSSION AND THANK.
>> YOU TO THE ADMINISTRATION FOR BEING HERE. UM. >> IN A MOMENT WHERE WE HAVE PASSED. REGULATION TO UH. TRY TO. >> ADDRESS THIS ISSUE, IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE SEE THE DATA WE SEE THE IMPLEMENTATION THROUGH.
THERE IS NOTHING. WORSE THAN PASSING A LAW THAT THEN ENDS UP HAVING NO REAL EFFECT AND IT WON'T HAVE ANY REAL EFFECT IF WE DON'T SORT OF TAKE A LOOK AT THE DATA, WE ENSURE THAT THE INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS ARE BEING MET,
THAT WE GET INFORMATION ABOUT UH MORE INFORMATION ABOUT WHETHER WHERE THE DELIVERIES ARE HAPPENING WHICH I THINK IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT RIGHT NOW WE SEE THAT THERE ARE SOMETIMES NO PARKING ZONES LOAD UH,
DELIVERY ONLY AND PERHAPS THERE ARE AREAS WHERE THERE NEEDS TO BE EXPANSION BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE AREAS WHERE PERHAPS THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE OR UH DRIVERS OF OF OF SCOOTERS OR THESE VEHICLES MOPEDS THAT ARE
ON THE SIDEWALK CREATING AN ACCESSIBILITY ISSUE. IT IS A HUGE ISSUE FOR OUR UM, UH, DISABLED AND DIFFERENTLY ABLED COMMUNITIES. BUT I AM VERY MUCH FOR THE APPROACH THAT WE TOOK HERE
WHICH IS REGULATION AND NOT BANNING WHILE UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE ARE WE NEED TO THERE ARE PROBABLY TWEAKS THAT WE NEED TO MAKE ALONG THE WAY, UM, AND THAT WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO
CAPTURE THE DATA UH, TO SEE TO SEE WHAT WHAT IS AND WHAT ISN'T WORKING. YOU ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT BPD NOT BEING INVOLVED IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF THIS ORDINANCE,
WHICH IS WHAT WAS ENVISIONED THIS ORDINANCE. BUT I DO WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR BECAUSE I THINK SOMEONE LISTENING MAY HEAR THAT AND SAY, WELL WHAT IF A MOPED OR SCOOTER IS INVOLVED IN AN ACCIDENT OR IS, YOU KNOW,
INVOLVED IN SPEEDING OR DOING SOMETHING THAT IS CONTRARY TO THE. LAWS OF THE ROAD. AND JUST TO FOR 100% CLARIFICATION, BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT IS INVOLVED IN THOSE SITUATIONS. SO IF YOU COULD TALK A LITTLE. BIT MORE. >> ABOUT THAT DISTINCTION
BECAUSE I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO THINK THAT IT IS A CASE WHERE THERE'S NO BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT, UH, INVOLVEMENT IN THE REGULATION OF A MOVING VEHICLE, WHICH IS WHAT THESE ARE.
100% AND THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FOR GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO CLARIFY THERE. I DON'T WANT TO MAKE, UH, THIS I DON'T WANT TO ADD CONFUSION HERE. BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT IS. >> AND WILL. CONTINUE TO ENFORCE THE RULES OF THE ROAD AS IT WHEN IT COMES
TO FOUR WHEELED VEHICLES TWO WHEELED VEHICLES WHETHER THEY ARE DELIVERING OR NOT THEY WILL CONTINUE TO ENFORCE UM TO MAKE SURE OUR STREETS ARE SAFE. UM, JUST TO CLARIFY MY EARLIER
STATEMENT UM WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE EXISTING ROAD DELIVERY UM EXCUSE ME ROAD SAFETY AND UH ACCOUNTABILITY FOR DELIVERY PROVIDERS ORDINANCE THIS IS UH REGULATING
AT THE COMPANY LEVEL TO ENSURE THAT THE COMPANIES THEMSELVES ARE UM MORE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR DELIVERY DRIVERS. SO IF A COMPANY IS NOT IN LINE WITH OUR REQUIRED PERMIT OR INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS OR
MEETING THE DATA REPORTING REQUIREMENTS WE WOULD ENFORCE AT THE COMPANY LEVEL. BUT THE RULES OF THE ROAD WILL ALWAYS CONTINUE TO BE ENFORCED BY OUR BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT AND UM, PARKING VIOLATIONS BY
OUR BTD ENFORCEMENT TEAM. THANK YOU. UM I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE HAS THERE BEEN INSTANCES IN THE LAST UM, LET'S SAY A YEAR OR TWO BECAUSE I DO KNOW THAT EVEN BEFORE WE HAD THIS ORDINANCE
THERE WERE ATTEMPTS TO SORT OF BE RESPONSIVE TO THIS BURGEONING USE OF SCOOTERS OR MOPEDS AS DELIVERY VEHICLES SUCH AS EXPANSION OF THOSE, YOU
KNOW, 15 MINUTES OR YOU KNOW, DELIVERY OR PICKUP HAVE HOWEVER ,WHAT DATA HAVE WE USED TO BE ABLE TO EVEN DO JUST THAT? YEAH. >> SO UM I CAN SHARE AND I'D BE HAPPY TO PULL EXACT NUMBERS FOR YOU. COUNCILOR I DO KNOW IN THE
SUMMER OF 2020. IN THE. >> LAST COUPLE OF YEARS SORRY, UH, WE. >> HAVE. BEEN COORDINATING A PUSH TO ENSURE THAT MOPEDS ARE PROPERLY REGISTERED AND REGULATED. SO I DO KNOW OF A LOT
OF ACTIVITIES THAT WERE FOCUSED ON SUPPORTING THAT. UM, AND WE HAVE SINCE SEEN AN IMPROVEMENT IN TERMS OF COMPLIANCE WITH MOPED UM REGISTRATION ON THE STREETS. UM AGAIN, HAPPY TO PROVIDE A
LITTLE BIT MORE DETAIL AND FOLLOW UP ON THAT EFFORT. I WOULD ALSO SAY COUNSELOR IN RESPONSE TO UM YOUR OTHER UH LIKE ANOTHER ANGLE HERE IS WE ARE DOING A LOT TO INNOVATE
WHEN IT COMES TO CURBSIDE MANAGEMENT AND I THINK UM TO COUNCILOR FITZGERALD'S POINT THERE IS A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO UM, THINK CREATIVELY ABOUT HOW TO BETTER ENFORCE AND
REGULATE UM, THESE VEHICLES WITH LIMITED UH WITH THE LIMITED RESOURCES WE HAVE AS A CITY. UM, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES WE'VE BEEN LOOKING INTO FOR EXAMPLE TESTING NEW SHORT TERM PICKUP
DROP OFF REGULATIONS TO GET PEOPLE MOVING BUT ALSO ABLE TO ACCESS THEIR DESTINATION. UM, SO WE HAVE BEEN TESTING RESPONSES TO THOSE REGULATIONS AND WE ARE ALSO LOOKING INTO
OTHER OPPORTUNITIES TO LEVERAGE TECHNOLOGY TO BOTH BETTER TRACK UM RESPONSES TO DIFFERENT REGULATIONS AND STRATEGIES BUT ALSO TO POTENTIALLY SUPPORT ENFORCEMENT EFFORTS EFFORTS IN THE FUTURE. THANK YOU. >> UM, AND LIKE MOST THINGS IN
THE PUBLIC POLICY REALM I KNOW THAT THERE'S A IT'S A DELICATE BALANCE OF BOTH. HOW DO WE ENSURE THAT EVERYONE WHO USES THE ROAD ARE SAFE? UM. OUR PEDESTRIANS UH, PEOPLE. WHO ARE BIKING, PEOPLE WHO ARE
IN. CARS. >> PEOPLE WHO. ARE UM UH DIFFERENTLY ABLED UH ,AGAINST YOU KNOW, THE NEED FOR MICROMOBILITY. UH, WE HEARD EARLIER ABOUT HOW
THIS IS INCOME GENERATING INCOME ESPECIALLY FOR POOR COMMUNITY POOR COMMUNITIES WHO OTHERWISE DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO JOBS, BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES. AND SO I THINK THAT DELICATE BALANCE IS ONE THAT IS REALLY
IMPORTANT FOR US TO, UM, TO UPHOLD. AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALREADY A CITY THAT DEALS WITH THE REALLY BAD TRAFFIC AND YOU KNOW, WHAT DOES IT MEAN IF IF YOU WERE TO ACTUALLY INSTITUTE
A BAN, DOES THAT MEAN EVERYONE AND I KNOW MANY PEOPLE ARE NOW USED TO THE CULTURE OF FOOD DELIVERY THAT WE REPLACE EVERY NON.
CAR VEHICLE WITH MOPED SCOOTER WITH A CAR AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR CONGESTION. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR TRAFFIC. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR SAFETY AS WELL BECAUSE CARS ALSO PRESENT THEIR OWN PROBLEM AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR MY ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES.
AND SO I JUST WANTED TO UPLIFT THAT THESE ARE ALL TRADE OFFS THAT WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT. UM AND I STILL THINK THE ROAD IS THE BEST PATH FORWARD IS LOOKING AT THE REGULATION THAT WE JUST PASSED THE
IMPLEMENTATION AND LOOKING AT THE DATA THAT COMES OUT OF THAT. SO THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE WITH US AND THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUES FOR THEIR QUESTIONS AND TO THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR. >> LOUIJEUNE COUNCILOR WEBER. >> THEN WE'LL. UH THANK YOU. >> CHAIR. UH, JUST FOLLOWING UP ON THAT,
YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF DATA THAT WE WILL BE. GATHERING TO DO WE KNOW RIGHT NOW HOW MANY, UH, MOPEDS ELECTRIC BIKES ARE BEING USED TO DO FOOD DELIVERIES FOR THESE
APPS. AT THIS MOMENT WE DO NOT OKAY. >> AND THEN DO WE EXPECT FROM THE DATA WILL WE'LL KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT. YES OKAY. AND IT SAYS IT IT'S PROVIDED AT THE END OF THE QUARTER I THINK
YOU KNOW SO WHEN WOULD WE START RECEIVING THE DATA. UM YEAH. SO UH FOLLOWING UH WHAT WE'VE ALREADY STARTED WITH GRUBHUB SO WE'VE BEEN IN CONVERSATION WITH UH MAJOR PROVIDERS AROUND THIS
DATA DELIVERY PROCESS TO REALLY FIGURE OUT HOW TO SECURELY, UH ,TRANSFER THE DATA IN IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE ANONYMITY OF CUSTOMERS ETC. SO UM, WE ARE
AIMING TO HAVE OUR FIRST TRANCHE OF DATA UH, IN THE SECOND. UH UM EXCUSE ME THIS SUMMER. OKAY. >> YEAH. >> I NEVER KNOW WHEN THE QUARTER STARTS. SORRY. >> OKAY. SO THE SUMMER UM YES. OKAY.
AND UH, SO AND I YOU MAY HAVE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THIS AS SO IS ANYONE FILED AN APPLICATION FOR A THIRD PARTY DELIVERY PROVIDER PERMIT? YES, COUNCILOR. UM, WE HAVE, UH, RECEIVED
PERMIT APPLICATIONS FROM GRUBHUB AND UBER EATS. WE HAVE APPROVED GRUBHUB PERMIT SO THEY ARE FULLY PERMITTED ACTIVE AND WE ARE COLLABORATING TO TEST OUT AND VALIDATE OUR
DATA DELIVERY PROCESS. UM, UBER EATS UH, PERMIT IS CURRENTLY UNDER REVIEW. UM, AND WE ARE ANTICIPATING UH SEVERAL MORE APPLICATIONS COMING IN THIS WEEK. OKAY. >> UM AND THEN I THINK I HEARD
YOU SAY THAT UH OR AT LEAST CORRECT. >> ME IF. I'M WRONG IF WE IF WE DID BAN ELECTRIC BIKES MOPEDS THAT WOULD RESULT IN MORE CARS ON THE ROAD AND MORE CONGESTION.
THAT'S OUR EXPECTATION OKAY. AND THEN LIKE YEAH WHERE ARE YOU ARE YOU BASING THAT OFF STUDIES IN OTHER CITIES OR DO YOU HAVE DATA HERE IN IN BOSTON ? UM I'M HAPPY TO. LOOK AND.
PROVIDE SOME DATA COUNCILOR WEBER UM AND FOLLOW UP TO BACK UP THAT OPINION. UM BUT. THAT IS A SHARED UH. OPINION OKAY. AND I GUESS WHEN WE GET THE DATA AT THE END OF THE QUARTER
UM, THE NUMBER OF DO WE JUST TAKE THAT NUMBER AND CHANGE EACH OF THOSE DEVICES TO A CAR OR DO DO WE THINK HOW SHOULD WE
INTERPRET THAT WHEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE IMPACT WOULD BE? YEAH, THERE'S A LOT OF REALLY INTERESTING OPPORTUNITIES TO ANALYZE THE DATA ONCE WE DO HAVE IT. UM I BELIEVE ONE OPPORTUNITY
COULD BE TO LOOK AT THE UM, AMOUNT OF TIME IT TAKES FOR A FOUR WHEELED VEHICLE. VERSUS A TWO WHEELED. VEHICLE TO MAKE THE DELIVERY. UM, AND CONSIDER IF WE WERE AT 100% OF THE FOUR WHEEL
VEHICLES, WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE? UM, I DO BELIEVE AS WELL THERE'D BE SOME INTERESTING OPPORTUNITIES TO CONSIDER UM, LIKE CURBSIDE MANAGEMENT THERE AS WELL. THAT'S SOMETHING. I'M OFTEN THINKING ABOUT.
UM SO WHAT THAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE ON THE ROADSIDE WHEN DELIVERY DRIVERS ARE WAITING TO PICK UP THEIR ORDER WE'LL HAVE BETTER DATA LIKE THOSE PEAK HOURS AND UM. NUMBER OF VEHICLES WAITING AND.
PICKING UP ORDERS AT DIFFERENT RESTAURANTS. UM, AND YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T SOMETHING THAT I NECESSARILY THINK SHOULD DECIDE WHAT WE DO
BUT WHAT IMPACT DO WE DO? WE KNOW WHO DO WE ASK WHAT THE IMPACT WOULD BE ON OUR RESTAURANTS IF WE IF WE DID BAN YOU KNOW, UH BAN THIS UH, YOU
DO HAVE A SENSE OF LIKE HOW MANY OF THE RESTAURANTS RELY ON THIS YOU KNOW WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THEIR BUSINESS? THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION, COUNCILOR WEBER. UM, I'M HAPPY TO LOOK INTO THAT AND SEE IF WE CAN PROVIDE SOME
UM, QUALITATIVE AND QUANTITATIVE DATA. OKAY. >> AND THEN I GUESS SO I, I DID SEE IN THE THE LETTER FROM BPD THE CONCERN THAT ENFORCEMENT
YOU KNOW HOW WOULD WE DETERMINE WHETHER SOMEBODY WAS ENGAGED IN A FOOD DELIVERY VERSUS CARRYING THEIR OWN FOOD OR GOING JUST YOU KNOW, MAYBE NOT EVEN
CARRYING FOOD? UM, ARE THERE ANY OTHER EXAMPLES YOU CAN THINK OF OF YOU KNOW, WHERE WE ENFORCE UH
LAWS THAT MAY APPLY TO, YOU KNOW, MORE PEOPLE YOU KNOW, ANY SIMILAR ISSUES THAT WE'VE TACKLED IN THE PAST? I'D LOVE. >> TO REFLECT ON THAT. UM.
AND WE'LL GET. BACK TO YOU. >> OKAY. THAT'S OKAY. YEAH. I MEAN, I GUESS LIKE I IN THE PAST THERE'S BEEN LIKE STOP AND FRISK, YOU KNOW, UH, POLICIES
THAT HAVE HAD PROBLEMS UH UM UH BUT I GUESS JUST THAT DOES CONCERN ME IS THAT WE YOU KNOW, HOW WOULD WE ENFORCE THAT BAN AND WHO WOULD BE IMPACTED BY IT ?
UM, UH AND IT WOULD INVOLVE JUST, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY STOPPING PEOPLE UH, I GUESS IF THEY HAD THE DOORDASH BRANDING ON THEM.
UM, BUT UH, YOU KNOW, ANYWAY SO JUST UH FOR FOR THE DRAFTERS I MEAN, IT IS A CONCERN I THINK THAT WE'D HAVE TO, UH, ADDRESS
UM UH AND UH, IN TERMS OF THE THE INSURANCE CAN YOU JUST EXPLAIN IN THE IN THE CURRENT ORDINANCE SO THE THE PERMIT HOLDERS ARE GOING TO HAVE THE
PROVIDERS DO GRUBHUB THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE INSURANCE FOR THE DRIVERS WHO DON'T HAVE INSURANCE. IS THAT RIGHT OR UM, WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO REQUIRE OF THEIR
DELIVERY OF THE MOPED UH BIKE DRIVERS. ABSOLUTELY. >> UM I'M HAPPY TO UH REVIEW QUICKLY WITH YOU THE. INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS IF THAT'S HELPFUL. SURE. ABSOLUTELY. SO UM, THE PROVIDER AS
STIPULATED IN THE ORDINANCE, THE PROVIDER FIRST MUST ENSURE THAT ALL OPERATORS MAINTAIN CURRENT INSURANCE AND THE AMOUNT AND TYPES AS REQUIRED BY MASSACHUSETTS STATE LAW TO OPERATE ALL MODES OF TRANSPORTATION FOR WHICH
REGISTRATION IS REQUIRED. CURRENTLY THAT'S AUTOMOBILES AND UM UH EXCUSE ME AUTOMOBILES AND MOPEDS UM THE PROVIDER MUST ENSURE INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR
ALL OPERATORS USING ELECTRIC BIKES AND MOTORIZED BIKES AS DEFINED BY THE MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL STATE LAW, THE PROVIDER IS RESPONSIBLE. >> FOR. REQUESTING PROOF OF INSURANCE FROM THE OPERATORS EXCEPT WHERE THE PROVIDER IS FULLY
MAINTAINING THE THIRD PARTY LIABILITY INSURANCE COVERAGE REQUIRED FOR THIS PERMIT, THE PROVIDER MUST PURCHASE AND MAINTAIN OCCUPATIONAL ACCIDENT INSURANCE THAT COVERS ACCIDENTAL INJURY EXPENSES FOR
OPERATORS INJURED WHILE IN THE . ACTIVE STATUS. THE COVERAGE MUST INCLUDE AT MINIMUM MEDICAL EXPENSES AND DISABILITY PAYMENTS FOR THE OPERATORS. THE PROVIDER MUST SUBMIT PROOF OF THIS INSURANCE TO THE CITY.
THE PROVIDER MUST ENSURE THAT THE OPERATOR, THE PROVIDER OR ANY COMBINATION OF THE TWO. THERE'S A BIT OF A NUANCE THERE WHEN IT COMES TO THIRD PARTY LIABILITY INSURANCE WITH COVERAGE AMOUNTS AT MINIMUM
50,000 UM DOLLARS FOR BODILY AND AN INJURY SUSTAINED BY ONE PERSON IN AN ACCIDENT, $100,000 FOR A BODILY INJURY SUSTAINED BY ALL PERSONS IN AN ACCIDENT,
$30,000 FOR DAMAGE TO OR DESTRUCTION OF PROPERTY IN AN ACCIDENT AND $50,000 FOR UNINSURED OR UNDERINSURED OPERATORS AND THE PROVIDER MUST SUBMIT PROOF OF THAT INSURANCE TO THE CITY TO OBTAIN THIS
PERMIT. UM YEAH. I MEAN IT'S IT'S LIKE I SAID JUST ONE LAST COMMENT. THANK YOU. I MEAN IT IT'S PRETTY LOW IN TERMS OF HAVING BEEN INVOLVED
IN LAWSUITS AND DAMAGE CLAIMS AND THINGS LIKE $50,000 IS UM, NOT A LOT OF $100,000 FOR ALL THE PEOPLE INVOLVED. UM, YOU KNOW, GO VERY FAR UH,
TO IF SOMEBODY HAS SERIOUS INJURIES. UM, BUT UH BUT I JUST DO YOU AGREE JUST A YES OR NO? SORRY CHAIR, THAT THAT THESE
REQUIREMENTS ARE DESIGNED TO MAKE THE GRUBHUB AND THOSE PROVIDERS MORE RESPONSIVE TO SAFETY CONCERNS BECAUSE THEY'LL BE PAYING A PRICE IN TERMS
OF THE INSURANCE COVERAGE AND THEIR INSURANCE RATES. IS THAT I THAT'S HOW I INTERPRETED THAT. I DO AGREE WITH THAT I'M. >> SORRY OKAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH CHAIR. THANK YOU. UM COUNCILOR. WORLD UH THANK.
>> YOU CHAIR. UH, JUST A FEW QUESTIONS THAT I. HAVE A LOT OF MY COLLEAGUES THE NEXT UH THE QUESTIONS UH, THAT I HAVE WRITTEN DOWN, UM, THE. TICKETS YOU. >> MENTIONED TICKET. UM, WHO WHAT TYPE OF TICKET?
UM. BTD POLICE DEPARTMENT. BECAUSE MY UNDERSTANDING POLICE . DEPARTMENT CAN'T. PURSUE UM. UH, MOPEDS OR SCOOTERS. SO WHAT DO YOU KNOW WHAT TYPE OF TICKET.
AND WHO WAS THE ISSUE? I OF SAID. UH, TICKET? UM, COUNSELOR WELL, I'D BE HAPPY TO DOUBLE. >> UH TO LOOK INTO THIS AND. CONFIRM UM. BUT IN TERMS OF TICKETS IN GENERAL. >> THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT IS RESPONSIBLE.
FOR ENFORCING. MOVING VIOLATIONS AND THE DATA ENFORCEMENT TEAM, UM, RESPONDS TO PARKING OR STATIONARY VIOLATIONS. ALL RIGHT. YEAH, YEAH, I JUST KIND OF WANTED TO UNDERSTAND THAT
MORE JUST BECAUSE OF THE BPD POLICY. UM, AND I WOULD STATE THAT THEY WERE ALSO HERE TO KIND OF UNDERSTAND THEIR POLICY AND SEEING LIKE WHAT IS NEEDED UM, YOU KNOW, FOR FOR THAT POLICY
TO TO NOW CHANGE. BECAUSE I KNOW OTHER CITIES UM, HAVE YOU KNOW ENFORCEMENT UNIT UM AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S SMALLER VEHICLES OR YOU KNOW WHY WHY THE OTHER CITIES HAVE
DECIDED THAT THEIR POLICE DEPARTMENT OR ANOTHER DIVISION UH, CAN'T PURSUE UH, BUT JUST WANTED TO UH, FIRST. KIND OF. >> CHECK, YOU KNOW WHAT TYPE OF TICKETS HAVE BEEN ISSUED TO THEM? UH, I THINK TO COUNCILOR PEPI'S
POINT UH, IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE BPD HERE TO SEE HOW WE CAN. YOU KNOW. >> MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE IS ENFORCING, UM, SAFER ROADS FOR OUR RESIDENTS. UM, THE OTHER THE OTHER
QUESTION THAT I HAVE IS WHEN IT COMES TO REGULATIONS AND UH, GUARDRAILS, I KNOW THAT WE'RE RELYING ON THE STATE TO TRY TO ISSUE SOME OF THESE UH, REGULATIONS OUT.
UM, AND ONE ONE THAT I CONSTANTLY HEAR IS INSURANCE. IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU HAVE SEEN IN OTHER CITIES AND YOU MIGHT HAVE ALREADY ANSWERED THIS ALREADY, UM, THAT. YOU'RE LOOKING. >> FORWARD TO THE STATE TO PASS IN THAT WILL HELP ENFORCEMENT HERE IN THE CITY.
YEAH. >> THANK YOU FOR THIS QUESTION, COUNSELOR. UM, I THINK ONE THING THAT WOULD VASTLY, UH, INCREASE THE ABILITY OF OUR TEAMS TO ENFORCE UH, IS AUTOMATED ENFORCEMENT.
UM, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS, UH, I THINK STILL IN BILL STATUS AT THE STATE LEVEL, BUT THIS WOULD ALLOW FOR US TO, UM ,ENFORCE THAT A MUCH GREATER LEVEL ACROSS THE CITY. UM, AND IS SOMETHING THAT, UH,
WE. HOPE TO SEE IN THE NEAR FUTURE. YEAH. >> UM, I AGREE WITH THAT SOMETHING THAT NOT ONLY WOULD ENFORCE, YOU KNOW, MOPEDS BUT ALSO YOU KNOW, PEOPLE BEHIND, YOU KNOW, THE WHEEL OF A CAR. SO DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT
I'M ADVOCATING FOR AS WELL AUTOMATED ENFORCEMENT UH, JUST FROM HEARING FROM BPD ON THE SHORT STAFFING AND I BELIEVE THAT THEY'RE NOT COSTLY OUT THERE TAKING IN PEOPLE AS MUCH AS THEY USED TO DO IN THE PAST.
UM, SO DEFINITELY A BIG FAN OF THAT AND. I, I. TO UM THINK THAT YOU. KNOW. >> REGULATIONS AND GUARDRAILS NEED TO BE SET UP UM, I'M NOT, YOU KNOW, IN FAVOR OF AN ALL OUT BAN.
I THINK THE CITY HAS STARTED TO MAKE THE RIGHT STEPS TO, UH, PUT IN THOSE GUARDRAILS AND RULES AND REGULATIONS UP. SO JUST LOOKING FORWARD TO THE DATA, LOOKING FORWARD TO WHAT PASSES THROUGH THE STATEHOUSE, UH, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE
THE PROTECTIONS, RULES, UM, ENFORCEMENT IN PLACE, UH, TO GET THIS END OF THIS MOTOR VEHICLE TYPE UNDER CONTROL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU COUNCIL AS WELL. UM, I'LL. JUST SAY A. >> FEW. QUICK THINGS. >> I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, BUT.
UM, I'M REALLY GRATEFUL. >> FOR MY COLLEAGUES, UH, QUESTIONS AND UH, THOUGHTFULNESS AROUND THIS. UM. >> I TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY. WHAT THE BOSTON. POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS TO SAY. ABOUT THIS. UM, AGAIN. WHAT THEY HAD MENTIONED IS THAT
IT WOULD BE. REALLY DIFFICULT TO MAKE. REAL TIME DETERMINATIONS. ABOUT WHETHER AN INDIVIDUAL WAS ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN. DELIVERY ACTIVITY OR NOT. AND SO. >> IT COULD RESULT. IN ARBITRARY ENFORCEMENT. AND SO.
WHAT WE'VE SEEN AT THE STATE. LEVEL AND I'M HAPPY THAT. MY COLLEAGUE HAD BROUGHT IT UP AT THE STATE LEVEL THERE ARE CERTAIN PERMITTING AND LICENSING REQUIREMENTS FOR MOPEDS. BUT NOT NECESSARILY I THINK WE
COULD EASILY FIGURE OUT WHO. IS UM. IS UH. DOING THIS FOR LEISURE OR DOING IT FOR. FOR BUSINESS. THROUGH THAT AND THE DATA THAT WE COLLECT THROUGH THE. ORDINANCE IT'S GOING TO BE. HARDER WITH ELECTRIC.
BIKES UM. E-BIKES AND. SCOOTERS BECAUSE WE. DON'T HAVE. THAT IN. CATCHMENT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. AND SO THEREFORE. THE POLICE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE. REAL TIME. DETERMINATIONS OF WHETHER OR NOT. SOMEBODY IS.
>> IS A DELIVERY DRIVER. NOW ARE THERE. >> INDICATIONS OF THAT. FROM THE. >> VERY BEGINNING. JUST BY USING. YOUR SITE? YES OF COURSE. UM BUT I THINK THAT THAT'S A VERY SERIOUS THING THAT WE COULD. THAT WE SHOULD. >> TAKE FROM. THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT AND WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY.
UM, WHAT'S. >> ALSO VERY. COMPELLING IS THE. CLIMATE AND MICROMOBILITY. GOALS THAT WE HAVE AS A CITY OF BOSTON. I DO. TAKE WHAT. >> YOU SAID SERIOUSLY AS WELL, WHICH IS. >> LOOK. AT ALL. >> OF. THE MOPEDS. E-BIKES AND SCOOTERS ON BOYLSTON STREET.
FOR EXAMPLE. THOSE COULD BECOME CARS. UM AND THE KEYWORD IS. COULD BECAUSE WE. >> DO KNOW THAT A LOT OF THESE WORKERS. ARE UTILIZING THESE. MODES OF. TRANSPORTATION BECAUSE. >> IT IS A LOW THRESHOLD.
BARRIER TO GET ACCESS TO THESE. JOBS INTO OPPORTUNITY, WHICH IS SOMETHING. I TAKE SERIOUSLY AS WELL. AND SO I REALLY. APPRECIATE THE POINT. MADE BY. COUNCILOR PET PEN. ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT DELIVERY. DRIVERS ARE.
>> ALSO INCLUDED IN THE CONVERSATION BECAUSE I THINK THAT DOING. >> A BLANKET. BAN WHILE NOT TRYING TO. REGULATE BEHAVIOR. IS NOT. NECESSARILY THE THE. APPROACH THAT I WANT TO TAKE AS
CHAIR. AND SO I DO THINK THAT WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO. BRING DELIVERY. DRIVERS IN. IN PARTNERSHIP WITH SOME OF THESE APPS. UM, IN ADDITION TO ALL OF. >> THE VOICES THAT WE'RE HEARING FROM COMMUNITY. SO I JUST WANTED TO PUT THAT ON
THE RECORD AND THANK. EVERYBODY FOR. THEIR COMMENTS. IF IT'S OKAY WITH MY COLLEAGUES ,I WILL GO TO PUBLIC TESTIMONY AND THEN WE'LL GO TO A SECOND ROUND IF FOLKS HAVE MORE QUESTIONS.
SO I'LL START WITH MATT. RYAN IF. >> YOU'RE STILL HERE LAUREN. FLAHERTY ROSSI. AND CHASE DUFFIN MATT IF YOU WANT TO SAY YOUR NAME AND. YOUR AFFILIATION. >> YOU HAVE TWO MINUTES.
SURE. THANK YOU. >> HI EVERYBODY. UH, MY NAME IS MATT RYAN. I LIVE IN BEACON HILL. UM, I BECAME AWARE OF COUNCILOR FLYNN'S EFFORT TO BAN MOTORIZED VEHICLES FOR FOOD DELIVERY
DRIVERS BACK IN SEPTEMBER, AND I EMAILED HIM RIGHT AWAY TO VOICE MY SUPPORT. UM, NOW THAT THIS AMENDMENT IS MOVING FORWARD FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION, I'M HAPPY TO HAVE THE CHANCE TO SPEAK ON THE MATTER. UM, I DON'T NORMALLY CONSIDER
MYSELF A VERY POLITICALLY INVOLVED PERSON. UM, I'M HERE TODAY BECAUSE I FIND THE ISSUE AT HAND TO BE A POLITICAL UM I FIND IT TO BE A MATTER OF PUBLIC SAFETY.
ABOUT THREE WEEKS AGO, UH, MY FIANCÉ WAS NEARLY RUN OVER BY A NEW BRIDGE DRIVER UM, BY PASSING TRAFFIC BY DRIVING A MOPED IN THE DEDICATED BIKE LANE ON ARLINGTON STREET OPPOSITE THE INTENDED
DIRECTION. UH, SHE WAS STEPPING INTO THE CROSSWALK TO CROSS OVER THE MALL AND THOUSANDS OF RESIDENTS AND TOURISTS DO THE SAME EACH DAY. UM, UNFORTUNATELY A NORMAL
ACTIVITY ACTIVITY SUCH AS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, ALMOST LED TO. HARM GRAVE INJURY OR EVEN DEATH TO THE UNINITIATED, I'D SAY
THAT SOUNDS LIKE MAYBE A ROGUE DRIVER THAT'S ACTING IN AN UNUSUAL MANNER. UM, BUT I'M CERTAIN THAT MY FELLOW RESIDENTS INCLUDING MANY OF US IN THIS ROOM, CAN ATTEST THAT THIS IS CLOSER TO THE AVERAGE THAN IT IS TO THE
OUTLIER. I'VE WATCHED THESE DRIVERS OFTEN DISTRACTED BY THEIR DEVICES WEAVING IN AND OUT OF TRAFFIC. AS OTHERS HAVE SAID BLOWING THROUGH RED LIGHTS, STOP SIGNS DRIVING THE OPPOSITE WAY ON ONE
WAY UP ON THE SIDEWALK UM CONSISTENTLY PUTTING LIVES INCLUDING THEIR OWN AT RISK UM NOT TO MENTION I'VE YET TO SEE ANYBODY BE PULLED OVER OR RECEIVE ANY FORM OF REPRIMAND
FOR THE BEHAVIOR. UH, FOOD DELIVERY IS A LUXURY SERVICE THAT'S BECOMING INCREASINGLY NORMALIZED AND WE AS A CITY HAVE DECIDED TO SEEMINGLY TURN A BLIND EYE TO SAFETY IN THE TIME IN THE NAME
OF TIMELY DELIVERY. THE CITY'S PURSUIT OF ADDING BIKE LANES FOR EASE OF VEHICULAR TRAVEL HAS EFFECTIVELY CREATED A SUPERHIGHWAY FOR FOOD DELIVERY DRIVERS THAT ALLOWS THEM TO
BYPASS TRAFFIC AND THREATEN PEDESTRIANS. IN THE UNFORTUNATE CASE THAT THIS ORDINANCE AND THE AMENDMENT ARE UNSUCCESSFUL IN SOLVING THE PROBLEM, I'D ENCOURAGE OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT
OFFICERS TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE, TO TAKE A MORE ACTIVE ROLE IN CURTAILING THE PROBLEM BY CLOSELY MONITORING THE HIGH TRAFFIC, HIGH TRAFFIC AREAS AND SETTING A CLEAR EXAMPLE THAT
VIOLATION OF THE RULES OF THE ROAD WON'T GO UNPUNISHED. THANK YOU. >> I ALSO LIKE TO THANK COUNCILOR FLYNN FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK. THANK YOU. >> UH, LAUREN. HELLO. >> MY NAME IS LAUREN FLAHERTY.
ROSSI I AM A SOUTH BOSTON MOTHER OF TWO. I'M NOT HERE TO TAKE AWAY ANYONE'S JOB. I'M HERE BECAUSE I'M SCARED TO CROSS THE STREET WITH MY KIDS
BECAUSE OF MOPEDS DRIVING DANGEROUSLY FOR FOOD GENERATOR DELIVERY. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO WALK MY CHILDREN HOME FROM THE BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB WHICH IS A NINE MINUTE WALK WITHOUT SEVERAL
CLOSE CALLS WHILE CROSSING THE STREET WHEN MY CHILDREN ARE OLD ENOUGH TO WALK HOME WITH FRIENDS, I HONESTLY DO NOT KNOW HOW IT WOULD BE SAFE FOR THEM TO DO SO. IT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE I CANNOT
RAISE MY CHILDREN IN MY OWN NEIGHBORHOOD. THESE FEARS ARE NOT UNFOUNDED. SINCE 2018 TWO CHILDREN TODDLER COLIN MCGRATH AND GRACIE GRAND
CHEEVER AGE FOUR HAVE BOTH BEEN KILLED BY. CARS WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE OF MY HOUSE. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. PLEASE HELP US HAVE SAFER ROADS .
HELP US HAVE SAFER DRIVING IN ALL VEHICLES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
UH, CHASE CHASE DUFFIN. VENERABLE COUNCIL MEMBERS. COUNCILOR FLYNN MY NAME IS CHASE STUFF AND I'VE BEEN A BOSTON RESIDENT FOR OVER TEN YEARS AND I'M HERE TODAY TO EXPRESS MY SEVERE OPPOSITION TO
THIS NEW ORDINANCE SUBMITTED AS PROPOSED. WHILE I HOLD. >> IN GOOD FAITH THAT YOU HAVE YOUR HEARTS IN THE RIGHT PLACE AND THAT YOU GENERALLY WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING FOR YOUR CONSTITUENTS, I BELIEVE YOU'RE FAILING TO SEE ITS CONSEQUENCES AND ARE PLANNING TO MAKE
DECISIONS WITHOUT DATA FIRST. IF PASSED, THIS MEASURE WILL CAUSE GREAT HARM TO THE LIVES AND LIVELIHOODS OF PEOPLE PERFORMING SUCH FOOD DELIVERY LABOR BEFORE MAKING SUCH A RASH AND SWEEPING DECISION AFFECTING
THEM, I ENCOURAGE YOU TO STUDY ITS IMPACTS. GO ASK THEM NO REALLY GO ASK THEM. IT WILL NOT COST MUCH TIME OR MONEY AND WILL ARM YOU WITH THE INFORMATION YOU NEED.
STAND ON BOYLSTON STREET. BRING A NATIVE SPANISH SPEAKER WITH YOU IF YOU CAN NOT YOURSELF AND ASK WHAT. WILL YOU DO IF YOU'RE BANNED. >> FROM PERFORMING YOUR WORK WITH THE VEHICLE YOU CURRENTLY USE? THEIR ANSWERS ARE CONSPICUOUSLY
ABSENT FROM THIS CONVERSATION AT A TIME WHEN SOCIOECONOMIC CONDITIONS ARE MORE PRECARIOUS THAN THEY'VE EVER BEEN. AS WITH ALL OF OURS IN THE WORKING CLASS, MANY WILL STRUGGLE TO PIVOT AND STRUGGLE TO FEED THEIR FAMILIES.
CAN YOU ACCEPT THE BLAME FOR THIS OUTCOME IN GOOD CONSCIENCE YOU CAN NO LONGER SAY I DIDN'T KNOW OTHERS WILL PIVOT AND THEY WILL DRIVE CARS INSTEAD. THIS GETS TO MY SECOND POINT
YOUR OBJECTIVE AS A STATE IS ARE TO IMPROVE PUBLIC HEALTH OUTCOMES FOR BOSTONIANS. YET PLEASE ASK YOURSELF WHEN MORE AGITATED, TIME CRUNCHED, OVERWORKED AND UNDERPAID
DRIVERS LEAD TO THAT I QUOTE NOW FROM YOUR VERY ORDINANCE THIRD PARTY DELIVERY COMPANIES MAY POTENTIALLY BE INCENTIVIZING LOW WAGE WORKERS TO PRIORITIZE SPEED OVER SAFETY IN ORDER TO RECEIVE MORE ORDER
ASSIGNMENTS. DO YOU REALLY THINK. THAT THIS REALITY WILL CHANGE IF THEY'RE DRIVING CARS OR DO YOU THINK AS I'M SURE MOST WOULD THAT THIS WILL FURTHER ENDANGER PEDESTRIANS, CYCLISTS
ALL ROAD USERS WORSENING TRAFFIC CONDITIONS, INCREASING INSTANCES OF DOUBLE PARKING IN BIKE LANES SPECIFICALLY AND RAISING THE MENTAL HEALTH TENSIONS OF EVERYONE. YOU ALSO MENTIONED IN YOUR
ORDINANCE A SYSTEMIC FAILURE OF EXISTING ENFORCEMENT. DON'T YOU THINK YOUR EFFORTS ARE BETTER SUITED THERE? GET CREATIVE. HIRE MORE TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS USE 311 I'M NOT THE EXPERT BUT
DON'T SCAPEGOAT THE BPD AND BUS LANES. FIX THE SYSTEMIC PROBLEMS INSTEAD AS IS YOUR MANDATE. I'LL LEAVE YOU WITH THREE THOUGHTS AND HOW TO EARN BROAD RESPECT AND CONSENSUS ON THIS ISSUE. BE DATA DRIVEN AND CONSISTENT
IN YOUR IDEOLOGY. INVITE THOSE TO THE MEANS OF LABOR YOU MAKE SWEEPING, SWEEPING. DECREES OVER INTO THESE VERY CONVERSATIONS SO THAT YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THEIR PERSPECTIVES AND PREDICT HOW THEY WILL
RESPOND TO THIS. AND LAST, BE INTELLECTUALLY HONEST ABOUT YOUR MOTIVES. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >> THANK YOU.
EDUARDO. GOOD MORNING. BOSTON CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS. UM I WANT TO THANK MR FLYNN FOR INVITING ME TO TESTIFY.
I AM HERE TO RAISE, UM, THREE ISSUES. FIRST, I WANT TO RAISE THE ISSUE THAT THIS MOPEDS WHO ARE DELIVERING FOOD ARE PERFORMING RECKLESS DRIVING. I'LL GIVE YOU A FEW EXAMPLES.
THEIR DRIVERS ARE NOT RESPECTING STOP SIGNS OR RED LIGHTS. THEY'RE DRIVING IN THE WRONG DIRECTIONS ON ONE WAY STREET AND THEY'RE ALSO DRIVING ON THE SIDEWALKS. SEE HOW THIS COULD UM AFFECT A
VISUALLY IMPAIRED PERSON? SECOND OF ALL, UH MY POINT IS ON BEHALF OF THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY AND WOMEN UNFORTUNATELY FOR THE MOPED
DRIVERS MY FIRST LANGUAGE IS SPANISH. I AM AN IMMIGRANT AND AS I AM WALKING. ON THE STREET WITH. >> MY HUSBAND I CAN HEAR THEM SAYING DEROGATORY AND HATE
SPEECH AGAINST LGBTQ COMMUNITY MEMBERS. HOW DO I KNOW? BECAUSE I SPEAK SPANISH AND THE EQUIVALENT TO THE WORDS THAT THEY'RE USING I AM NOT GOING TO SAY IT ON THE FLOOR IS THAT
EFFORT SO FILL IN THE GAPS. THAT'S VERY BAD. SECOND OF ALL I HAVE SEEN THEM I HAVE OBSERVED THEM IN VARIOUS DISTRICTS FENWAY.
TO BACK BAY SOUTH AND NEAR THE CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MUSEUM WHERE THEY. ACTIVELY HARASS WOMEN IN SPANISH THROWING KISSES AND
SAYING SEXUAL COMMENTS. UNFORTUNATELY A LOT OF THE WOMEN THEY HARASS ARE NOT SPANISH SPEAKERS SO THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY BEING, YOU KNOW, SEXUALLY MOLESTED.
IF YOU WILL. THAT IS TERRIBLE. NOBODY SHOULD GO THROUGH THAT. THREE WEEKS AGO ON MASSACHUSETTS AVENUE AND THE INTERSECTION THE WHERE THE
CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MUSEUM IS, MY HUSBAND ALMOST GOT RUN OUT BY THEM. WE STOPPED THIS PERSON. THEN WE SAY HEY HEY WHAT'S GOING ON? AND HE RESPONDED WITH AN INSULT FOR THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY AT THIS
POINT MY HUSBAND IS ALWAYS ASKING ME AM I SAVE THAT? SO AM I SAFE? I'M SORRY. OUTSIDE WE ARE ALWAYS WONDERING OR EXTRA CAUTIOUS WHEN WE'RE CROSSING THE STREETS EVEN IF WE
HAVE THE RIGHT BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT RESPECTING OUR STREETS. THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH EDUARDO. UM JEN, ELIJAH AND THEN MONTEL
AND WE'LL GO TO UH BACK TO QUESTIONING JEN STAR. AND THEN ELIJAH EVANS AND THEN
MONTEL COLBY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. UM, BEN STAR UH, 49 BEACON STREET. UH, FOR HONOR FOR 15 YEARS I'VE MANAGED TRAFFIC AND PARKING
WITHIN THE BEACON HILL CIVIC ASSOCIATION. UH, THOUGH WE DIDN'T HAVE A MEETING IN ADVANCE OF THIS MEETING, SO I'M HERE ON MY OWN. UH, I JUST LIKE TO CALL OUT, UH, A POPULATION THAT REALLY
HASN'T COME UP HERE WHICH ARE THOSE WHO RECEIVED THE FOOD DELIVERIES, I WOULD GUESS EDUCATED GUESS THAT COUNCILOR FLYNN AND COUNCILOR DURKIN'S DISTRICT, UH ,HAVE THE HIGHEST RATE OF THAT . UM. >> I AM IN SUPPORT OF COUNCILOR
AS A RESULT, I'M IN SUPPORT OF COUNCILOR DURKIN'S UH, SUGGESTED FEES UM, BECAUSE THAT POPULATION WHO RECEIVES FOOD DELIVERY APPS NOT ON MY PHONE
UH WHO RECEIVES FOOD DELIVERIES THROUGH THE APPS ARE GETTING OFF EASY HERE UM I IN THOSE DOLLARS COULD THEN BE DEPLOYED
INTO ENFORCEMENT UM THEY CAN BE DEPLOYED UH BACK INTO THE CONCERN FOR THE DRIVERS. UM, BUT I AM FOR REGULATION AND ENFORCEMENT AND AGAINST BANS.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU BEN I APOLOGIZE I'M SAYING JEN. ELIJAH EVANS AND THEN MONTO. GOOD MORNING EVERYONE. MY NAME IS ELIJAH EVANS.
I'M CURRENTLY A JP RESIDENT BUT. >> LIVED. IN DORCHESTER FOR MOST OF MY LIFE. I'M ALSO THE CEO OF BIKE STOP BOMBS FOR OVER FOUR DECADES OUR MISSION HAS BEEN CLEAR TO USE THE BICYCLE AS A VEHICLE FOR SOCIAL CHANGE TO ACHIEVE
ECONOMIC MOBILITY. >> FOR. BLACK AND OTHER MARGINALIZED PEOPLE IN BOSTON AND THE GLOBAL SOUTH. I STAND BEFORE YOU TODAY IN STRONG OPPOSITION TO A WHOLESALE BAN ON MICROMOBILITY.
I ALSO FIND IT A LITTLE IRONIC THAT TODAY AS OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THREATENED TO BOMB BRIDGES AND POWER PLANTS CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE IN IRAN AT THE SAME TIME OUR LOCAL
GOVERNMENT IS SEEKING TO BAN E-BIKES, MOPEDS AND SCOOTERS FOR THIRD. PARTY DELIVERY SERVICES. CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE. FOR ECONOMIC INDEPENDENCE FOR THOUSANDS OF LOW WAGE EARNERS,
YOUNG ADULT AND IMMIGRANT WORKERS IN OUR CITY. THESE TWO WHEELED MOTORIZED VEHICLES ARE NOT JUST FOR RECREATION THEY'RE A LIFELINE. TOOLS PEOPLE. >> USE TO EARN. A LIVING AND A CITY THAT I
THINK WE CAN ALL AGREE IS INCREASINGLY UNAFFORDABLE. WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT FOR PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN NEIGHBORHOODS SUCH AS DORCHESTER, MATTAPAN AND ROXBURY, THE COST OF OWNING A
CAR IS SIMPLY. OUT OF REACH. MAKING ACCESSIBLE MICROMOBILITY SOLUTIONS LIKE E-BIKES ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL IN OUR TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM.
THIS BAN HITS THE POOR THE HARDEST, SYSTEMATICALLY TARGETING THE LIVELIHOOD OF THOSE WHO. IN THE AGE OF AI ARE ALREADY FACING A PROFOUND OPPORTUNITY GAP.
AND LIMITING THEIR ACCESS TO JOBS AS A RESULT OF WHAT WE CALL MOBILITY. APARTHEID THE SEGREGATED ACCESS TO SAFE AND AFFORDABLE TRANSPORTATION IF OUR TRUE GOAL
IS SAFER STREETS AND A SUSTAINABLE CITY, WE SHOULD BE ADVOCATING FOR METHODS OF GETTING PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR CARS. WHILE COMPLAINTS ABOUT MICROMOBILITY HAVE INCREASED,
WE KNOW THAT CARS POSTS POSE A GREATER A MUCH GREATER DANGER TO OUR PUBLIC SAFETY AND OUR PLANET. BUT WE'RE NOT BANNING CARS RIGHT? WE URGE THE CITY COUNCIL TO
REJECT THIS BAN AND FOCUS ON ENFORCING THE STRONG RULES ALREADY PASSED IN 2025. LET'S REGULATE UNSAFE RIDING AND INVEST IN BETTER BIKE LANES RATHER THAN REMOVING A VITAL
PATHWAY TO ECONOMIC INDEPENDENCE FOR OUR MOST MARGINALIZED RESIDENTS. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH MONTEL. THANK YOU AND GOOD MORNING, UH. >> MEMBERS OF THE BOSTON CITY COUNCIL AND. >> UH, MADAM CHAIR FOR UH, ALLOWING. >> ME TO. TESTIFY TODAY.
>> UH, I WANT. >> TO MAKE MY REMARKS. FAIRLY CONCISE. I THINK A LOT OF SENTIMENTS. >> HAVE ALREADY BEEN EXPRESSED. BY PREVIOUS SPEAKERS. HOWEVER. >> I DO WANT TO RAISE. THREE THINGS. >> THAT HAVEN'T. >> BEEN MENTIONED YET. COUNCILOR FLYNN, I. THINK YOUR ORDINANCE IS WELL-MEANING. >> I THINK IT COMES FROM A PLACE OF. CARE AND. >> CONSIDERATION FROM THE VULNERABLE ROAD USERS WE'VE
HEARD FROM TODAY INCLUDING. SENIORS. >> THE ELDERLY. AND FOLKS. >> WITH DISABILITIES. HOWEVER, THIS. PROVISION OR AS IT'S. WRITTEN IS A POISON PILL UH, THAT DOESN'T REALLY SERVE THE NEEDS OF SOME OF THEIR COUNCILORS AS THEY MENTIONED FROM COUNCILOR DURKIN'S
HIGHLIGHTING OF ALGORITHMICALLY DRIVEN UH, GIG ECONOMY WORKERS TO MEET EXCESSIVE UH, TIME CONSTRAINTS UH, TO COUNCILOR FITZGERALD HIGHLIGHTING THAT WE ARE BEING REACTIVE TO A CULTURE RATHER THAN BEING PROACTIVE
COUNCILOR UM WEBER ADDRESSING THAT UH, THIS INSURANCE SYSTEM IS INEFFICIENT FOR DEALING WITH A STRICT LIABILITY UH, METHOD WHEN THERE ARE MIXED ACTORS ON THE ROAD. ALL THESE FACTORS MAKE IT SO
THAT ALL THE CRITIQUES OF THIS ORDINANCE I THINK ARE RELEVANT AND SALIENT. UH, THE FIRST THING I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS IS I THINK A KIND OF CATEGORICAL CLASSIFICATION THAT I THINK IS FALSE. MOST OF THE SENTIMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED TODAY HAVE BEEN AGAINST MOPEDS USUALLY GAS
POWERED VEHICLES THAT ARE EITHER 56 OR MORE UH AND UH SEPARATING THAT FROM E-BIKES WHICH ARE USUALLY PEDAL ASSIST BIKES UH THAT CAN BE FACILITATED WITH A THROTTLE TO GO UP TO 20MPH IF THERE ARE
CLASS ONE OR CLASS TWO. THAT'S THE FIRST THING THAT I THINK NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED WHEN IT COMES TO ANY SORT OF ORDINANCE RELATED TO UH, BLANKET BANS OR AT THE VERY LEAST MIXED MODE UH, TRAFFIC. THE SECOND THING I WOULD LIKE
TO ADDRESS AT THE VERY LEAST UH ,IS THE IDEA THAT UM IS THE IDEA THAT UM, DOING UH IMPLEMENTING SUCH A BLANKET BAN UH, ON FOLKS PUSHES THEM UH, INTO SITUATIONS WHERE THEY'RE
UNSAFE RATHER THAN THINKING ABOUT THE BUILT INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE. IF ANYTHING, IT'S A FRAMING ISSUE WHERE YOU'RE PITTING. VULNERABLE ROAD USERS AGAINST EACH OTHER RATHER THAN BUILDING INFRASTRUCTURE THAT THEY NEED. UH, IN TERMS OF ACTUAL CONSTRUCTIVE ISSUES OR UH, SOLUTIONS THAT WE CAN MOVE
FORWARD. UH, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE CITY COUNCIL ENGAGE WITH BOSTON POLICE, UH, TO SEE THEM ENGAGE WITH THE SUMMER PLAN AND BUILD IN A WAY TO INCORPORATE SOME OF THE PERSPECTIVES OF THESE YOUNG PEOPLE AND UTILIZE THEIR
SKILLS AND GIVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO SHOWCASE RATHER THAN BLANKET CRACKING DOWN ON THEM WHEN IT COMES TO, UM, ANY OF THE WRITE OFFS THAT THEY MAY DO. UH AND IN ADDITION, LEVERAGING THE TOOLS THAT THE CITY OF BOSTON HAS ALREADY
IMPLEMENTED SUCH AS UH, THE BOSTON UH DELIVERY PILOT, UH E-BIKE DELIVERY PILOT THAT WAS ALREADY HAPPENING UH, REINVESTING INTO ADDITIONAL COMMUNITY EDUCATION AND TRAINING AS COUNCILOR MURPHY AND COUNCILORS HAVE MENTIONED UM AND I THINK THOSE ARE WAYS
THAT WE CAN EFFECTIVELY ENGAGE THE COMMUNITY TO BUILD CONSENSUS AND MOVE US FORWARD, UH, WHILE AVOIDING THIS, UH, SLOW WALKING OR BAN THAT WE'VE SEEN ON ADDITIONAL UH, INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WOULD BENEFIT VULNERABLE ROAD USERS.
SO THANK YOU ALL. THANK YOU. >> OKAY, WE'LL GO BACK TO THE SECOND ROUND OF QUESTIONS. WE JUST HAVE FOLKS ON ZOOM. OH UM SO I. APOLOGIZE I DON'T HAVE YOU CLIFF ON MY LIST IN FRONT OF ME.
UM WE'RE GOING TO GO TO UH, SECOND ROUND OF QUESTIONING. OKAY, COOL. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. WRITE YOUR NAME IS CLIFF. I THOUGHT NO, NO. I'M SORRY. I'M SO SORRY. OKAY. UH, WE'LL GO TO COUNCILOR FLYNN AND THEN WE'LL GO BACK TO
PUBLIC TESTIMONY. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU AND THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTING ANY. FEES OR TAXES AS IT RELATES TO
THIS ISSUE. I THINK. RESIDENTS. ,REGARDLESS OF THEIR POSITION ON. THIS DON'T WANT TO SEE MORE TAXES OR FEES. UM, WE WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT
HIGHLIGHT THAT ISSUE. I JUST WANT TO GO BACK TO SOME OF THE ISSUES I KNOW I KNOW THE BOSTON POLICE WERE INVITED TO COME TODAY AND UM THEY'RE NOT
HERE BUT SOME OF MY QUESTIONS ARE ABOUT MORE OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY ASPECT OF IT. SO WITH THE NEW PLAN THAT'S GOING TO BE IMPLEMENTED THIS WEEK SO THAT WILL BE BASICALLY
ENFORCED BY BOSTON TRANSPORTATION AND NOT BOSTON POLICE. IS THAT IS THAT ACCURATE? THAT'S CORRECT WITH. THE LAW. >> DEPARTMENT OKAY. AND AND HOW WILL HOW WILL THE
LAW DEPARTMENT COMMUNICATE WITH UM WITH BOSTON TRANSPORTATION AS IT RELATES TO AN ON SCENE RELATED. ISSUE? >> WILL THAT WILL THE BOSTON TRANSPORTATION HAVE ACCESS TO
CONTACT THE LAW DEPARTMENT IF AND IF AN ISSUE DOES ARISE UM DURING DURING A A STOP FOR ONE PARTICULAR REASON OR ANOTHER? SORRY.
>> UM COUNCILOR I BELIEVE THE THE SITUATION YOU'RE DESCRIBING IS LIKE AN ON SCENE INCIDENT. YEAH BASICALLY YEAH WOULD. >> BE RELATED TO. UM BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT OR BPD ENFORCEMENT RATHER THAN THE LAW DEPARTMENT LIKE ENFORCING
THE RULES OF THE ROAD TO ENSURE SAFE DRIVING WILL CONTINUE TO MAINTAIN IN THE CORNER. >> BUT IF. >> IT WAS IF IT WASN'T UM, RULES OF THE ROAD IF IT WAS SAY A MOPED OR A BIKE THAT WAS
STOPPED UM I REPRESENT A PORTION OF THE BACK BAY IF IT WAS STOPPED AT A RESTAURANT IN A IN THE BACK BAY WAITING TO MAKE A PICKUP AND TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT WAS
ON SCENE. THAT'S WHEN TRANSPORTATION WOULD ENFORCE THE LAW. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT WHEN WHEN THEY'RE. STOPPED AND PARKED. SO IN THAT CASE IF THERE WAS SOME DISCREPANCY ON EXACTLY
WHAT THE WHAT THE LAW WOULD BE WITH THAT TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL, THEN CONTACT THE LAW DEPARTMENT IF THERE WAS A UM QUESTION ON
SCENE UM, SO THAT THEY CAN GET GUIDANCE FROM THE LAW DEPARTMENT. . >> UH, WE UM REMAIN IN CLOSE CONTACT WITH THE LAW DEPARTMENT AND WHEN NEEDED DO LOOK TO THEM FOR ADVICE TO ENSURE PROPER ENFORCEMENT OF REGULATIONS.
I WILL SAY UM, I DON'T ANTICIPATE AT THIS MOMENT ACCORDING TO THE EXISTING ORDINANCE THAT BTD WOULD NEED TO BE IN CONTACT WITH THE LAW DEPARTMENT BECAUSE THE PARKING
REGULATIONS ARE MAINTAINED THE SAME WHETHER THIS ORDINANCE OR NOT EXISTS IF THAT MAKES SENSE, COUNCILOR. BUT IF THE BOSTON
TRANSPORTATION HAD AN ISSUE OF OF LAW AND THE PERSON ON THE MOTOR BIKE OR THE E-BIKE ON THE MOPED UH DISAGREED WITH TRANSPORTATION INTERPRETATION OF THE LAW.
,WOULD WOULD. >> THE LAW DEPARTMENT COME IN AND TRY TO CLARIFY WHAT THE LAW IS SO THAT THERE'S A SATISFACTORY UM, OPINION ON ON THE ISSUE AT HAND?
UM, YEAH. SO WE WOULD FOLLOW OUR EXISTING PROCESSES FOR DISPUTE A VIOLATION. SO IF UM AN INDIVIDUAL IS ISSUED A UH PARKING TICKET BY BTD OR B.
BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT, THEY HAVE AN ABILITY TO APPEAL THAT VIOLATION UM, WHICH IS THEN REVIEWED BY MY, UH, TEAM AT THE OFFICE OF THE PARKING CLERK AND THE ADJUDICATION DIVISION.
UM, WE THEN CONDUCT, UH, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S NOT IF THE APPEAL IS NOT ACCEPTED AT THE FIRST STAGE THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE CONSTITUENT OR DRIVER TO COME IN FOR A HEARING. UM, AND WE WOULD PROVIDE A
DECISION AT THE HEARING IF. >> THE. CONSTITUENTS STILL. >> WOULD LIKE TO DISPUTE THAT, UH. DECISION AFTER THE HEARING THEY MAY TAKE THAT TO THE SUFFOLK SUPERIOR COURT AT THAT POINT THE LAW DEPARTMENT COMES IN AND SUPPORTS THE FOLLOWING PROCESS
FROM THE CITY SIDE. OKAY. >> THANK YOU. I'M OUT OF TIME. UM, I, I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO FOR YOU TO FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS. UM I JUST WANT TO MAKE A FINAL
THE FINAL NOTE. THAT MANY PEOPLE FROM MY DISTRICT FROM DISTRICT TWO I SHOULD SAY NOT MY DISTRICT DISTRICT TWO TESTIFIED UM IN SUPPORT OF MY PROPOSAL THERE
WAS RESIDENTS FROM THE BACK BAY FROM UH FROM BEACON HILL FROM SOUTH BOSTON, UH FROM OTHER AREAS OF DOWNTOWN BOSTON. I, I AM DOING MY DUE DILIGENCE
TO PROVIDE THE SAFEST ENVIRONMENT I CAN FOR NOT JUST CONSTITUENTS BUT ALSO FOR BOSTON RESIDENTS.
I JUST CAN'T ACCEPT A CITY THAT THERE'S A THERE'S A PHILOSOPHY OF IT'S THE WILD WEST ANYTHING GOES WHETHER IT'S ON THE SIDEWALK OR ON THE STREETS. WHEN I SEE SEE MOPEDS
OF E-BIKES. DRIVING DOWN UH, DRIVING ON A SIDEWALK THE WRONG WAY. AND ELDERLY PEOPLE. >> ARE JUMPING OUT OF THE WAY AND. PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES ARE JUMPING OUT OF THE WAY. I JUST CAN'T IGNORE THAT.
I DO HAVE TO DO MY. DUE DILIGENCE TO PROVIDE A. SAFE ENVIRONMENT. I SEE. UH, ONE OF MY NEIGHBORS PICKING UP HER CHILDREN. AT THE SOUTH BOSTON BOYS AND GIRLS CLUB RIGHT ACROSS THE
STREET DOWN. >> THE STREET. FROM MY HOUSE. I ALSO SEE IT EVERY DAY. I JUST CAN'T IGNORE WHAT'S HAPPENING OUT THERE. I HAVE TO DO MY DUE DILIGENCE. >> TO PROVIDE THE SAFEST. ENVIRONMENT IN NEIGHBORHOOD I
CAN FOR MY CONSTITUENTS. AND I'M GOING TO CONTINUE TO WORK ON THIS. ISSUE BECAUSE I THINK PEDESTRIAN SAFETY. AND ENSURING THAT. PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES OUR SENIORS. FAMILIES. >> ALL RESIDENTS. UM HAVE A SAFE SIDEWALK AND A
SAFE STREET TO CROSS. THANK YOU. MADAM CHAIR. >> THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FLYNN. UM OKAY. WE ONLY HAVE COUNCILOR DURKAN WITH US. COUNCILOR DURKAN, DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS? OKAY.
THANK YOU SO MUCH, CHAIR. UM, YEAH, OBVIOUSLY THIS ISSUE IS DEEPLY IMPORTANT TO A LOT OF US AND, UM, YOU KNOW, I DEFINITELY HEARD, UM, FROM FOLKS IN MY DISTRICT ON BOTH
SIDES OF THIS ISSUE IN ADVANCE OF THE HEARING AND AT THE HEARING TODAY. UM, I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT THAT WE HAVE AN ORDINANCE THAT IS CURRENTLY IN
THE PROCESS OF BEING IMPLEMENTED AND MY TOP PRIORITY AND I THINK ALL OF US IS THE CITY COUNCIL'S TOP PRIORITY SHOULD BE TO GET EVERY SINGLE COMPANY WHO UM WHICH IS
DOORDASH, UM, GRUBHUB, UBER EATS TO COMPLY WITH THE ORDINANCE. IT SOUNDS LIKE UBER EATS AND GRUBHUB HAVE DONE WHAT THEY CAN TO GET THROUGH THE PERMITTING PROCESS. I KNOW I ASKED YOU A QUESTION
EARLIER ABOUT DOORDASH. UM CAN YOU TELL ME IF THERE'S ANY SPECIFIC POINT THAT IS A STICKING POINT FOR THEM OR IF YOU IMAGINE THAT THEIR APPLICATION WILL COME IN BEFORE APRIL 11TH?
UH, COUNCILOR UM MY I FULLY ANTICIPATE TO RECEIVE THEIR APPLICATION. WE HAVE NOT BEEN IN CONTENTION ON THE, UH, MEETING OF THE PERMIT REQUIREMENT. PERFECT. >> OKAY. BECAUSE THAT'S MY IMPRESSION HAVING MET WITH THEM MYSELF.
SO, UM, THANK YOU FOR THAT. UM, I THINK AS A CITY, UM, WE WE NEED TO SEE IF THIS WHICH I MEAN WOULD BE LIKE YOU SAID, UM
,ONE OF THE MOST, UH, COMPREHENSIVE ORDINANCES THAT HAS BEEN PASSED, UM, IN THE NATION. UH, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT ACTUALLY GETS IMPLEMENTED AND THAT WE SEE THE IMPACTS ON OUR STREETS.
UM, I DO WANT TO SAY IF WE'RE GOING TO OPEN THIS UP, I THINK THE THING THAT I WOULD HAVE OPENED UP UM, PARTICULARLY AND I KNOW THAT YOU SAID THERE ARE SOME ADMINISTRATIVE CHALLENGES I DO THINK IFFY UM, GIVEN THE
FEEDBACK FROM OUR COLLEAGUES THAT THEY WANT TO SEE MORE ENFORCEMENT, HOW DO WE DO MORE WITH LESS IN THE BUDGET SITUATION WE'RE IN AS A CITY RIGHT NOW? UM, WE NEED TO GET REAL ABOUT,
UM, HOW WE CAN CREATE RESOURCES FOR SPECIFIC ISSUES THAT ARE BEING CAUSED ON OUR STREETS BY THESE THIRD PARTY DELIVERY DRIVERS. I DON'T WANT TO BE A BROKEN RECORD. UM, I ALSO DON'T WANT TO OPEN
UP AN ISSUE THAT WE LIKE. I REALLY DO THINK WE NEED TO IMPLEMENT THE ORDINANCE THAT WE HAVE AND THEN MOVE ON TO TO SEEING WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO AMELIORATE THESE ISSUES.
SO UM I AM AGAINST UH THE BAN AS PROPOSED. UM, I UH WILL DO EVERYTHING WITHIN MY POWER, UH, TO FIGHT ANY CHANGES TO AN ORDINANCE THAT HASN'T BEEN IMPLEMENTED YET.
I THINK THAT THAT IS COMMON SENSE AND POLICY DRIVEN, A THOUGHTFULNESS THAT I WANT TO COME OUT OF MY OFFICE. BUT I'VE BEEN THE FIRST ONE TO SAY THAT THESE COMPANIES ARE GETTING AWAY WITH SOMETHING
HERE AND SO THEY NEED TO BE LICENSED. THEY NEED TO BE INSURED, THEY NEED TO COMPLY WITH THE ORDINANCE AND THEY NEED TO GIVE US THE DATA. UM, AND I THINK THE DATA WILL HELP INFORM WHERE WE MOVE FROM HERE. SO I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR
WORK. UM I WANT TO THANK UM, COMMISSIONER GOVE OR I SHOULD SAY INTERIM CHIEF GOVE. UM, I THINK AS A CITY WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER AND I THINK PART OF HOW WE WORK TOGETHER IS
BY WE'VE ALREADY AFFIRMED OUR SUPPORT FOR THIS ORDINANCE. LET'S GET IT IMPLEMENTED. I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, CHAIR. THANK YOU SO MUCH, COUNCILOR DURKAN. UM, SEEING THAT THERE ARE NO OTHER COLLEAGUES, I'LL JUST BRIEFLY SAY IT.
YEAH. I THINK UM, WITH WITH WHAT WE'VE PUT TOGETHER AND THE TIMELINE THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY ON. UM, AND BASED ON WHAT I'M HEARING FROM MY COLLEAGUES, I
DO THINK THAT IT IS A MISCHARACTERIZATION TO. UH. >> TO SAY THAT ANY. THOUGHTFUL POLICY DISCUSSION WHERE FOLKS ARE ASKING. REALLY POINTED QUESTIONS AND TRYING TO ENSURE THAT WE ARE
BRINGING IN ALL PERSPECTIVES IS US. IGNORING A PROBLEM OR THINKING THAT THE CURRENT SITUATION IS UM, IS SUSTAINABLE? I DO THINK THAT THERE'S THERE'S
OPPORTUNITY HERE FOR SOME CHANGES WITH ENFORCEMENT. UM, BUT WHEN WE GO FORTH WITH WHATEVER IF THERE ARE AMENDMENTS IN THE FUTURE UH AND I OF COURSE WANT TO WORK WITH
COUNCILOR FLYNN AND MY COLLEAGUES TO ENSURE THAT IT IS REFLECTIVE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THE STREETS, UM, WHILE ALSO TRYING TO MITIGATE. UH. >> ANY POTENTIAL JOB LOSS OR UM
OR TRY TO AVOID DERAILING OUR MICROMOBILITY GOALS AS PART OF OUR NET NEUTRALITY GOALS. RIGHT. SO I THINK THAT THERE'S THERE'S A THERE'S A LOT HERE IN THIS CONVERSATION. IT'S NOT JUST BLACK AND WHITE
AND I AS CHAIR WILL BRING THAT PERSPECTIVE TO THIS CONVERSATION. UM BUT WHOLEHEARTEDLY HERE EVERYBODY THAT PROVIDED TESTIMONY AND REALLY LOOK FORWARD TO THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS ORDINANCE SO THAT WE CAN GET THIS DATA AND HOW THAT
INTERACTS WITH STATE LAW, WHAT'S ALREADY ON THE BOOKS, WHAT WE NEED TO ENSURE IS ON THE BOOKS, UM, IS SOMETHING THAT I WILL ALSO BE CONSIDERING. OKAY. WITH THAT WE'LL SWITCH TO PUBLIC TESTIMONY.
WE HAVE UM ONE MORE IN PERSON AND THEN WE'LL GO TO THOSE ONLINE. I THINK THERE'S ABOUT SEVEN PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN WAITING SO WE'LL GO UH NEXT TO CLIFTON BRAITHWAITE AND THEN IF YOU'RE
ONLINE ERIC QUARTO MADISON AND PAUL LEARY YOU'LL BE UP NEXT. CLIFTON YOU WHO YOU HAVE TWO. YEP. >> I'LL BE VERY BRIEF AND SURE. GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYBODY COUNCIL GOOD AFTERNOON, YOUNG LADY. UM, MY NAME IS CLIFTON
BRAITHWAITE. UM, I'VE BEEN A RESIDENT IN THIS CITY SINCE THE AGE OF EIGHT, SO, UM, I FEEL I'M COMMITTED TO THIS COMMUNITY AFTER THREE DECADES OF SERVING AND, UM, I JUST WANT TO ADD ON
THAT'S WHY I'VE WAITED TO BE LAST ONE. ONE CONCERN THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN MUCH IS IN MY COMMUNITY ROXBURY DORCHESTER, MATTAPAN TIPS OF JP
AND SOUTH IN SOUTH BOSTON. THE PROBLEM IS WHEN LYFT AND UBER STARTED THESE WERE THINGS THAT WE SPOKE ABOUT AHEAD OF TIME TO SAFETY.
HOW DO WE ACCOUNTABILITY WHO'S WHO RIGHT NOW WHAT I SEE WHEN IT COMES TO THE DRIVERS WHO ARE DOING THE UBER EATS AND THEY'RE DRIVING THEIR BIKES IN THEIR PERSONAL UM VEHICLES ON EVEN UM
THE MOPEDS THERE'S NO WAY TO IDENTIFY IF THAT'S A STREET PERSON HANGING OUT OR THEY'RE WORKING FOR A COMPANY. NOW I CAN UNDERSTAND THE COMPLEXITY OF THE COMPANIES
THAT THERE'S SO MANY PEOPLE WORKING AND THEY'RE NOT JUST WORKING FOR DOORDASH. THEY MIGHT BE WORKING FOR MULTIPLE STREAMS OF UM COMPANIES TO BRING FOOD TO PEOPLE. EVEN THE PRIVATE SECTORS DO IT.
SO I THINK THERE SHOULD BE SOME WAY FOR US TO IDENTIFY ANTENNA THAT GOES ON THE BACK OF THAT BIKE THAT IT'S BROUGHT UM FOR THE APP THAT THEY'RE USING, UM, SOME TYPE OF IDENTIFICATION
WITH SHIRTS WITH COLORS. SO WHEN THE OFFICERS ARE SEEING THESE THINGS THEY CAN DETERMINE WHO'S WHO ACTUALLY WORKING AND WHO'S HANGING OUT. THEN ANOTHER THING NO ONE HAS MENTIONED HERE IS THE SAFETY
OF OUR ELDERS. I GET THE CALLS IN MY COMMUNITY ALL THE TIME AND WHEN I IN MY COMMUNITY I'M TALKING ABOUT THE WHOLE BOSTON AND A LOT OF THE SENIORS ARE WORRIED BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT SURE WHO THAT
DRIVER IS SO THERE'S NO WAY TO IDENTIFY AND THEN IF WE ALWAYS WANT TO POINT THE FINGER, LET'S STOP POINTING THE FINGER AND FIND A WAY TO BE ABLE TO SAFEGUARD OUR SENIORS.
THERE'S NO WAY FOR THEM TO KNOW WHO'S COMING AT THEIR DOOR. SO THERE SHOULD BE SOME TYPE OF THE THE ONCE AGAIN LET ME BRING IT BACK. WHATEVER COMPANY OR STREAM THEY WORKING FOR, THEY SHOULD BE IDENTIFIED WITH HAVING SOME
TYPE OF INFORMATION TO PROVE WHO THEY ARE, NOT JUST A SMALL BADGE. WE REALLY HAVE TO DIVE DEEPER INTO THAT AND ALSO TO CUT JOBS . THERE'S A LOT OF MEN AND WOMEN IN MY COMMUNITY NO MATTER WHAT
WALK OF LIFE THEY COME FROM, NO MATTER WHAT COLOR THEY UH THEY HAVE CHECKERED PASSES. SO WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE AT LEAST KEEP THESE JOBS FOR THOSE WHO CAN WORK. THERE WAS A TIME WHEN IF YOU
WAS A DRUG DEALER AND YOU CHANGED YOUR LIFE AND YOU WANTED TO WORK IN THE PHARMACIES, YOU COULDN'T BECAUSE YOUR PAST WAS A DRUG DEAL. THERE WAS A TIME IF YOU WAS A DRUG DEALER YOU COULDN'T EVEN GET ACCESS TO YOUR OWN KIDS.
BUT TIMES HAVE CHANGED. WE HAVE TO WORK WITH THE TIMES OF NOW AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT THINGS THAT WORK FOR ALL PEOPLE BECAUSE WHAT I HEARD THE MOST
UP DOWN HERE IS THE AREAS THE BUSINESS AREAS THAT REALLY DEAL WITH PEOPLE LIVING THERE AND THAT IS A MAJOR CONCERN. I'M NOT MINIMIZING NONE OF THAT BUT THERE'S ALSO CONCERN IN THE IN THE CITY WE DON'T WHERE WE
DON'T GET THE SAME SERVICES AND A LOT OF OUR ELDERS ARE SCARED OPEN THE DOOR AND THEY JUST PAID AND ONE MORE THING AND CLOSING THESE THIRD PARTIES AND I HEAR THIS ALL THE TIME SO WHILE I'M HERE I'M GOING TO END IT HERE.
HOW DO WE KEEP THE THIRD PARTY ACCOUNTABLE WHEN SOMEONE ORDERS FOOD, SPENT THEIR MONEY AND THEY CAN'T EVEN RECEIVE THE FOOD THAT THEY PAID FOR? SO WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS TO TIGHTEN UP AS FAR AS PEOPLE
GETTING THEIR FOOD SAFETY. BUT I BELIEVE WITH THE COUNCIL THAT WE HAVE AND THE PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE IN GOVERNMENT, AS LONG AS WE ALL SIT DOWN TOGETHER AND THE COMMUNITY COMES UP AND STEPS UP, LISTEN TO ALL VOICES AND
LET'S GET THIS TOGETHER BECAUSE I BELIEVE WE CAN DO IT AND WITH A BEACON OF THIS WHOLE COUNTRY THANK YOU. THANK YOU, THANK YOU. CLIFTON. UM, SORRY. WE HAVE ONE MORE PERSON, UH, THAT SIGNED UP FOR PUBLIC TESTIMONY. UH, IN PERSON WE HAVE DANIEL
HART AND THEN WE'LL MOVE TO, UH IT LOOKS LIKE ERIC, TIFFANY. LEANN AND KATIE ONLINE. UM. >> HI THERE. UH, I WAS COMPELLED TO BIKE
OVER HERE FROM VIEW ON MY LUNCH BREAK BECAUSE I WAS LISTENING TO THE TO THE MEETING. UM, FIRST TIME LISTENER. FIRST TIME CALLER. UM, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, ON MY LUNCH BREAK I WANTED TO COME OVER HERE AND AND AND SAY MY
PEACE I VINTAGE JAMAICA CURRENTLY IN RESIDENT FOR FOR EIGHT YEARS UM I BIKE COMMUTE I'M ALSO AN OCCASIONAL DRIVER UM I'VE HAD MY FAIR SHARE OF RUN INS WITH UM MOPEDS AND SCOOTERS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
UM BUT I FEEL PERSONALLY THAT THE DANGER IS COMING PRIMARILY FROM FROM CARS. UM, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE SPEAKING OF ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE JUST ON MY WAY HERE COMING DOWN. COME OUT IF THERE'S A CAR THAT FAILED TO YIELD AND JUST NOW IN WASHINGTON THERE WAS A CAR
THAT, YOU KNOW, SWEPT INTO MY INTO MY LANE AND I'M I'M TRYING NOT TO BE MAD ABOUT THAT. UM. >> BUT I AND I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE HAVE HAVE HAD REAL REAL RISKS BUT I DON'T SEE THAT, UH, BANNING MOPEDS IS THE
SOLUTION. UM, WHEN WHAT A CHANGE IN BEHAVIOR AND INFRASTRUCTURE. >> IS. WHAT. WE WANT. UM, SO I THINK IF WE WANT SAFE STREETS AND SIDEWALKS WE NEED BETTER INFRASTRUCTURE AND THAT REQUIRES LONG TERM INVESTMENT
AND COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AND UM, NOT BANS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
UM, WE HAVE ERIC MARTEL ONLINE.
ERIC, CAN YOU SEE AND HEAR US? SEE A MUTED ERIC UH, WE CANNOT HEAR YOU IF YOU'RE TALKING.
IN YOU IN THIS YOU CAN HEAR AND YOU CAN SEE ME NOW. YEAH I HAVE TWO. IMPORTANT POINTS TO MAKE. I'M A, UH, SOUTHEND RESIDENT FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS. UM, AND IN THIS DISCUSSION THERE SEEMS TO BE A GENERAL
MISUNDERSTANDING OR MISCONCEPTION OF THE TYPES OF VEHICLES THAT WE'VE BEEN DESCRIBING. THIS ACCORDING TO THE STATE IS
A MOTORIZED SCOOTER OKAY. THIS VEHICLE IS THE VEHICLE THAT THE DELIVERY DRIVERS ARE DRIVING. THIS IS A FLAG ONE AND 50. THIS IS THE MOST COMMON VEHICLE
USED BY THE THIRD PARTY DELIVERY DRIVERS. IT IS A 150 CC MOTORCYCLE. IT IS NOT A MOPED. VIRTUALLY NONE OF THE THIRD
PARTY DELIVERY DRIVERS ARE DRIVING MOPEDS OR E-BIKES. ACCORDING TO THE STATE, A MOPED IS DEFINED AS A UH ASSISTED BICYCLE OR NON PEDAL A NON
PEDAL BICYCLE WITH A MOTOR WITH A MOTOR THAT HAS THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERISTICS NO MORE THAN 50 CUBIC CC'S PER CAPACITY A BIT OF A CYLINDER. THOSE VEHICLES HAVE A MAXIMAL
VELOCITY OF 30 MILES AN HOUR. THESE FLYING ONE 50S AND MODEL SEVERAL ARE DRIVEN BY A THIRD PARTY DELIVERY SYSTEM HAVE A
MAP? UH UH. BUT UH AS OF NOW OR. ERIC, I AM SO SORRY TO SAY THAT WE ARE HAVING TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES IF YOU WANT TO BE
MAYBE TO A CAMERA OFF. AND POINT ME FIVE I. HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THAT. UNFORTUNATELY, ERIC, WE CANNOT
UM, YOU'RE COMING IN AND OUT, RIGHT? SORRY. >> AND THESE ARE THE VEHICLES THAT ARE, UH I THINK THE. UM. OH, WAIT.
IT'S CAN YOU HEAR US? ERIC I THINK WHAT WE MAY HAVE TO DO IS COME BACK. OH, SURE. YEAH. WE ARE. UM, YOU'RE NOT COMING IN CLEAR AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE. UM THESE VEHICLES. WELL, LET ME AT LEAST CONTINUE AND MAYBE HERE'S REGISTER THEY
DON'T HAVE INSPECT I COULD PLAY. YEAH, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO UH I'VE BEEN I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR TWO HOURS. I UNDERSTAND I THINK YOU'RE COMING IN A LITTLE BIT BETTER NOW.
OKAY, LET ME LET ME LET ME JUST ALL RIGHT. TWO THINGS ONE. WE HAVE THE DIFFERENCE DRIVING MOTORCYCLES NOT MOPEDS. THEY'RE NOT REGISTERED.
THEY'RE NOT INSPECTED AND I GUESS THE VAST MAJORITY DON'T HAVE CLASS. UM, DRIVER'S LICENSE TYPE ISSUE NUMBER TWO THE STATE LEGISLATURE PASSED THE LAW IN
1998 GOVERNING BICYCLE MESSENGERS AND DELIVERY PEOPLE THAT GO INTO MORE RESTRICTIONS AND MORE REGULATIONS THAN ANY OF THESE TOPICS DISCUSSED TODAY .
I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO REVIEW THAT LAW CHAPTER 302 FROM 1998 WHICH GOVERNS INSURANCE EDUCATION, FINDS REQUIREMENTS
OF THE COMPANY IS TO PROVIDE DETAILS OF WHO'S DRIVING THEIR VEHICLES. THE THE DRIVERS MUST WEAR BADGES VISIBLE BADGES WITH
THEIR NAMES, FACES AND IDS TO BE IDENTIFIED AS COMMERCIAL OPERATORS ON THE STREETS OF BOSTON THAT'S ALREADY IN PLACE BUT NOT BEING FOLLOWED. SO I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO
REVIEW THOSE LAW THAT LAW. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU. >> ERIC. UM I JUST WANT TO CALL ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT THE THE UM THAT ALSO MAY BE THE CASE THE TRANSPORTATION BOND BILL WAS SIGNED INTO LAW AUGUST
10TH, 2022, WHICH ESTABLISHES THE CURRENT CLASS OF UH ONE AND TWO. E-BIKE DEFINITIONS. SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT SUPERSEDES IT OR NOT, BUT THAT WILL BE SOMETHING THAT WE DEFINITELY TAKE A LOOK AT AND REVIEW SO I APPRECIATE IT.
UM READ NEXT UP WE HAVE TIFFANY KAJOL I APOLOGIZE IF I'M SEEING YOUR NAME WRONG.
GOOD MORNING. GOOD MORNING TO UH CITY COUNCIL UH AND EVERYONE WHO SHOWED UP TO TESTIFY. MY NAME IS TIFFANY CALDWELL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE BOSTON CYCLISTS UNION.
I'LL START WITH DATA. IT'S SOBERING. BETWEEN 30 AND 35% OF FOOD DELIVERY CAR DRIVERS REPORT HAVING BEEN IN A CRASH WHILE WORKING. DELIVERY DRIVERS ACCOUNT FOR NEARLY 20% OF ALL WORK RELATED
MORE MOTOR VEHICLE CRASH FATALITIES, MAKING THEM STATISTICALLY MORE LIKELY TO DIE ON THE JOB THAN POLICE OFFICERS. ONE ACCIDENT OCCURS EVERY 143,000 ORDERS. PLACED. >> WHICH TRANSLATES TO ROUGHLY
1000 CRASHES EVERY SINGLE DAY ACROSS THIS INDUSTRY. HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN IMPACTED BY CAR DELIVERIES OVER THE PAST FIVE YEARS? HOW MANY PEOPLE WIND UP IN THE HOSPITAL DUE TO DELIVERY RELATED CRASHES?
TRULY THE WILD WILD WEST IF THIS COUNCIL IS SERIOUS ABOUT ADDRESSING THE TRAFFIC DANGERS ASSOCIATED WITH FOOD AND GIG DELIVERY, I URGE YOU LET'S ADDRESS IT HOLISTICALLY.
THE DATA IS CLEAR THAT CARS ARE INVOLVED AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF DELIVERY RELATED CRASHES, YET THERE IS NO HEARING BEYOND ,UH, BEING CONVENED TO DISCUSS RESTRICTING OR BANNING CAR BASED DELIVERIES.
WHY NOT? WELL, BECAUSE WE DON'T HOLD AN ENTIRE INDUSTRY OF WORKERS RESPONSIBLE FOR A SYSTEMIC PROBLEM WHEN IT'S CARS DOING THE DELIVERY. WE SHOULD APPLY THAT SAME STANDARD OF FAIRNESS REGARDING
TWO WHEELED DELIVERIES. THESE WORKERS ARE NOT A HAZARD . THEY ARE PEOPLE OFTEN PEOPLE WITH FEW OTHER OPTIONS WHO ARE ABSORBING ENORMOUS PERSONAL RISK JUST TO MAKE A LIVING.
AND REGARDING FOOD DELIVERIES, LET'S BE INTENTIONAL ABOUT HOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MOPEDS, E MODELS AND E-BIKES AND THEIR DIFFERENT CLASSES. DOES COUNCIL LEADERSHIP HERE UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCES
BETWEEN THESE TYPES OF MICROMOBILITY DEVICES AND HOW EACH SHOULD BE ASSOCIATED WITH DIFFERENT AND APPLICABLE REGULATIONS RATHER THAN VILIFYING A GROUP OF WORKERS FOR MAKING A LIVING AND ONE
OF THE FEW WAYS AVAILABLE TO THEM, I ASK AND URGE THIS COMMITTEE TO LOOK TO THE EXPERTS ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE MICROMOBILITY COMMISSION, MASS BIKE AND OTHERS WHO ARE DOING
THE HARD WORK OF DEVELOPING REGULATIONS THAT ARE EQUITABLE, EVIDENCE BASED AND SAFETY FOCUSED ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE BOSTON CYCLISTS UNION WHO ADVOCATE FOR SAFETY INFRASTRUCTURE THAT SHOULD
CLEARLY INFORM ALL ROAD USERS HOW MANY OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE FOR THIS BAN REGULARLY ORDER FOOD DELIVERY. WE CAN MAKE OUR STREETS SAFER. WE CAN ESTABLISH LAWFUL
REGULATIONS TO PROTECT FOLK ON THE ROAD AS WELL AS E DELIVERY DRIVERS. BUT WE CANNOT DO IT BY SCAPEGOATING THE MOST VULNERABLE PEOPLE IN THIS ECONOMY. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO ATTENDING THE HEARING THAT
HOLDS ACCOUNTABLE THE COMPANIES WHO HIRE DELIVERY DRIVERS AND PUT UNREASONABLE EXPECTATIONS ON THEM TO COMPETE AND COMPLETE A HIGH NUMBER OF DELIVERIES PER SHIFT IN ORDER TO MAKE A LIVING
TO FEED THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES. THE WORLD IS CHANGING. TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCEMENTS ARE REAL THING. WE HAVE GOT TO FIGURE OUT A PATH FORWARD THAT IS SAFE AND FAIR. LET'S HAVE THE COURAGE TO ADMIT
THAT THIS IS NOT A SAFETY POLICY. IT IS A PUNITIVE POLICY. THIS IS INEQUITABLE AND THIS COUNCIL CAN DO BETTER. WE CAN ALL DO THAT IF WE PUT OUR HEADS TOGETHER. PLEASE REJECT THIS PROPOSAL AND
THANK YOU. THANK YOU. >> UH NEXT UP WE HAVE LEANNE AND THEN, UM, LAST BUT NOT LEAST KATIE.
GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYONE. CAN YOU HEAR ME? YES, WE CAN HEAR YOU. THANK YOU. UM, I FEEL LIKE I'M TALKING TO MYSELF. THERE'S ONLY TWO COUNSELORS LEFT ON THE FLOOR. BUT WITH THAT BEING SAID, UM,
MY NAME IS LUANNE O'CONNOR. I AM A, UM, PRESIDENT OF THE CITY POINT NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION IN SOUTH BOSTON. AND I'M HERE TO SPEAK ON
SUPPORT OF THIS PARTICULAR BAN. UM, THE PRIOR SPEAKER UM, I THINK WAS MISSING QUITE A FEW THINGS. THIS MOST CERTAINLY IS A SAFETY ISSUE. IT IS A SAFETY ISSUE FOR CARS, FOR PEDESTRIANS, UH, FOR
EVERYONE. SO WHEN YOU'RE DRIVING UP THE STREET AND YOU'RE IN TWO LANES AND THEN YOU'RE IN THE LEFT HAND LANE OF THE DOUBLE YELLOW LINE, ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU HAVE BIKES OR WE CALL THEM BIKES.
UH, ZOOMING UP TO BE FIRST IN LINE AT THE RED LIGHT YOU DON'T EXPECT AS A DRIVER FOR PEOPLE TO BE COMING UP ON YOUR LEFT HAND SIDE. THEY ARE IN FACT ON SIDEWALKS. I'VE REPORTED SEVERAL OF THEM
TO THE DIFFERENT ESTABLISHMENTS THAT I ACTUALLY GO TO TO PICK UP FOOD. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE. UH, IT'S NOT FAIR TO PUT THE ONUS BACK ON TO THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT.
THEIR POLICY OF NON PURSUIT BASICALLY HOLDS THEM UM UM THEY'RE NOT JUST ABLE TO DO THE JOB. SO WHAT IS THE UM ABILITY HERE.
WE'VE HAD SEVERAL MEETINGS UH COUNCIL HERE I BELIEVE HAD ONE WHERE THERE WAS A PARTICULAR BOSTON POLICEMAN ON THERE AND STARTED WITH UM EDUCATION PAMPHLETS SO ON AND SO FORTH.
IT WAS A GREAT IDEA. HOWEVER NONE NOTHING HAS BEEN FACILITATED FULLY TO CORRECT ANY OF THE BEHAVIORS OF THE PEOPLE THAT USE THE ROAD ON THESE BUS BIKES IN THE PAST
COUPLE OF YEARS. SO WHAT IS THE ANSWER? THE ANSWER IS WE HAD FOOD DELIVERIES PRIOR TO 2023. UH WE ACTUALLY WENT AND BOUGHT FOOD.
SO THIS IS A CONVENIENCE ISSUE AND IF YOU WANT FOOD DELIVERIES I'M SORRY COUNCILORS BUT YEAH THAT SHOULD BE IN CARS NOT IN UM THESE DOES BIKE DELIVERIES
THEY'RE TOO DANGEROUS AND THE DATA IS NOT THERE. THE CART HAS ONCE AGAIN BEEN PUT BEFORE UH, THE HORSE AND NOW HERE WE ARE BEING REACTIVE
INSTEAD OF PLANNING THIS OUT IN THE BEGINNING. SO THAT'S ALL I HAVE TO SAY. UM, IT'S A MESS. IT MOST CERTAINLY IS THE WILD WILD WEST. IT IS NOT PUNITIVE TO ANYONE.
WHAT IT IS IS ADDRESSING SAFETY ISSUES FOR EVERYONE. SO THAT'S WHAT I HAVE TO SAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. LYNN.
UH, KATIE.
UH, KATIE LEVINE, IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND JUST ACCEPTING THE INVITATION TO BECOME A PANELIST.
WE CAN HEAR YOUR TESTIMONY. KATIE. UH, IF YOU'RE TALKING, WE CAN'T
HEAR YOU. MORNING, KATIE. WE HAVE YOU, UM. OUR AFTERNOON. SORRY. IF YOU'D LIKE TO PROVIDE
TESTIMONY, NOW'S THE OPPORTUNITY. OKAY. UM, KATIE, IF THIS IS THE LAST
CALL FOR PUBLIC TESTIMONY. OKAY, UH, WITH THAT WE WILL, UH, MOVE TO ADJOURN THIS MEETING. I WANT TO THANK EVERYBODY FOR BEING HERE. THANK YOU, MAYOR AS WELL. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FLYNN.
UM, THANK YOU TO ALL OF THE PUBLIC, UH, TESTIMONY AND AGAIN, THE THOUGHTFUL UM, QUESTIONS BY MY COLLEAGUES. UH, I'M SORRY.
LET ME JUST FIND MY. KEYS HERE. UM, AT THIS POINT, UH, YOU KNOW, I'LL CIRCLE BACK WITH COUNCILOR FLYNN, BUT AT THIS POINT THIS DOCKET WILL STAY IN COMMITTEE.
AND THIS HEARING ON DOCKET 0325 IS NOW ADJOURNED. THANKS, EVERYBODY. Part: 2
FOR THE RECORD MY NAME IS HENRY SANTANA, AT-LARGE CITY COUNCILOR AND I AM THE CHAIR OF THE BOSTON CITY COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE.
TODAY IS APRIL 7TH, 2026 AND THE EXACT TIME IS TO 2 P.M. OR 208I SHOULD SAY THIS HEARING IS BEING RECORDED. IT IS ALSO BEING LIVE STREAMED
AT BOSTON.GOV/CITY COUNCIL DASH TV AND BROADCAST DEMOS FOR CHANNEL EIGHT, RCN CHANNEL 82 AND FILES CHANNEL NINE SIX FOR VIEWING. COMMENTS MAY BE SENT TO THE
COMMITTEE EMAIL ASK STOPS@BOSTON.GOV AND WILL BE MADE PART OF THE RECORD AND AVAILABLE TO ALL COUNCILORS. PUBLIC TESTIMONY WILL BE TAKEN AT THE END OF THIS HEARING.
INDIVIDUALS WILL BE CAUGHT OUT IN DO AND IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY SIGNED UP. THEY WILL HAVE TWO MINUTES TO TESTIFY. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN TESTIFYING IN PERSON, PLEASE ADD YOUR NAME TO THE SIGN UP SHEET NEAR THE ENTRANCE OF THE
CHAMBER. IF YOU ARE LOOKING TO TESTIFY VIRTUALLY, PLEASE EMAIL OUR CENTRAL STAFF LIAISON. MEGAN GO TOGETHER@BOSTON.GOV FOR THE LINK AND YOUR NAME WILL
BE ADDED TO THE LIST. TODAY'S HEARING IS ON DOCKET NUMBER 0638. ORDER FOR A HEARING TO EXAMINE THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT'S PROTOCOLS FOR RELEASING POLICE
BODY CAMERAS AND DASHBOARD CAMERA FOOTAGE. THIS MATTER WAS SPONSORED BY COUNCILORS MINYARD CULPEPER AND BRIAN ROW AND WAS REFERRED TO THE COMMITTEE ON MAY 25TH 2026.
TODAY I AM JOINED BY MY COLLEAGUES IN ORDER OF ARRIVAL . COUNCILOR MURPHY. COUNCILOR FLYNN. COUNCILOR FITZGERALD. COUNCILOR. CULPEPER. COUNCILOR RUSTY LOUIJEUNE AND
COUNCILOR BRIAN REALM. WE'VE ALSO RECEIVED TWO LETTERS OF ABSENCE ONE FROM OUR UM CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT COUNCILOR BREADON AND DISTRICT A CITY COUNCILOR.
UM, COUNCILOR DURKAN I'M NOT GOING TO GO. UM, TURN IT OVER TO MY COLLEAGUES HERE FOR A BRIEF OPENING STATEMENTS. UM, BEFORE WE GO INTO OUR FIRST PANEL, UM, AND WE'RE GOING TO
START WITH THE SPONSORS AND THEN WE'LL GO IN ORDER OF ARRIVAL. UM, SO COUNCILOR CULPEPER, UM, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. GOOD AFTERNOON. AND THANK YOU, CHAIR SANTANA.
AND TO MY CO-SPONSOR COUNCILOR WU, MY COLLEAGUES AND PANELISTS AND MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC FOR BEING HERE TODAY. BEFORE WE BEGIN, I WANT TO ADDRESS SOMETHING DIRECTLY.
THIS HEARING WAS CALLED TO EXAMINE THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT'S PROTOCOL FOR RELEASING BODY CAMERA AND DASHBOARD CAMERA FOOTAGE, AN ISSUE THAT GOES DIRECTLY TO
TRANSPARENCY, ACCOUNTABILITY AND PUBLIC TRUST IN OUR CITY. SO I HAVE TO SAY THAT IT'S DISAPPOINTING THAT THE POLICE LEADERSHIP IS NOT HERE TODAY
BECAUSE THE CORE OF THE HEARING IN QUESTION THAT THE PUBLIC IS ASKING OVER AND OVER. QUESTIONS THAT DESERVE ANSWERS NOT JUST FROM LEGAL COUNCILOR WITH ALL DUE RESPECT
,BUT FROM THE LEADERSHIP RESPONSIBLE FOR SETTING POLICY ,MAKING DECISIONS AND BUILDING TRUST WITH OUR COMMUNITIES. NOW I WANT TO BE CLEAR. WE RESPECT THE ROLE
OF COUNCILOR. I HAVE BEEN ONE OVER 40 YEARS COUNCILOR AND WE WITH ALL DUE RESPECT AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR PRESENCE HERE TODAY. BUT THIS HEARING WAS INTENDED
TO BE A CONVERSATION ABOUT POLICY, PRACTICE AND TRUST NOT JUST LEGAL POSITIONING. AND SO THE ABSENCE OF THE LEADERSHIP FROM THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT RAISES A
BROADER CONCERN. IF WE CANNOT HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS OPENLY IN PUBLIC AND WITH THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR DECISION MAKING, THEN IT BECOMES HARDER TO BUILD THE
VERY TRUST THAT BODY CAMERAS WERE MEANT TO STRENGTHEN. WITH THAT SAID, WE'RE STILL GOING TO DO THE WORK. BOSTON HAS MADE THE INVESTMENT IN BODY WORN CAMERAS AND WE
HAVE DONE SO FOR THE RIGHT REASONS TO STRENGTHEN ACCOUNTABILITY, TO BUILD TRUST AND TO CREATE A CLEAR RECORD OF INTERACTIONS BETWEEN OFFICERS AND THE PUBLIC.
WE HAVE A SYSTEM THAT IS STRONG WHEN IT COMES TO RECORDING FULLER FOOTAGE, BUT FAR LESS CLEAR WHEN IT COMES TO RELEASING IT. UNDER STATE LAW, DECISIONS
ABOUT WHETHER FULLER FOOTAGE IS RELEASED ARE LARGELY MADE ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS. AND THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT ROUTE 45 THAT AUTHORITY IS CENTRALIZED WITHIN
THE DEPARTMENT WITH RELEASE ULTIMATELY REQUIRING THE COMMISSIONER OR HIS DESIGNEE APPROVAL. AT THE SAME TIME, THERE IS NO DEFINED TIMELINE FOR RELEASE
OF FOOTAGE AFTER CRITICAL INCIDENTS. THERE IS NO PUBLIC FACING FRAMEWORK THAT EXPLAINS HOW THOSE DECISIONS ARE MADE AND THERE IS NO GUARANTEED ACCESS
FOR ELECTED OFFICIALS OR THOSE WITH OVERSIGHT. SO WHAT WE ARE LEFT WITH IS A SYSTEM WHERE TRANSPARENCY OFTEN DEPENDS ON DISCRETION RATHER THAN CLEAR POLICY AND THAT
MATTERS. AND SO TODAY EVEN IN THE ABSENCE OF DEPARTMENT LEADERSHIP WE WILL CONTINUE TO PRESS FOR ANSWERS. WE WILL CONTINUE TO PRESS FOR
FLAHERTY AND A PATH FORWARD. AND AS WE'VE SEEN WHEN THE FOOTAGE IS DELAYED OR WITHHELD ESPECIALLY IN MOMENTS OF CRISIS ,IT CREATES CONFUSION,
FRUSTRATION AND A LOSS OF TRUST IN THE VERY INSTITUTIONS WE ARE WORKING TO STRENGTHEN. BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY THIS IS ABOUT ENSURING THAT THE SYSTEMS WE PUT IN PLACE TO
PROMOTE ACCOUNTABILITY ACTUALLY DELIVER ON THAT PROMISE. I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM OUR PANELISTS, ESPECIALLY GENERAL COUNCILOR AND WORKING TOGETHER TO ENSURE THAT
BOSTON'S APPROACH TO BODY FOOTAGE CAMERA REFLECTS THAT TRANSPARENCY, ACCOUNTABILITY AND FAIRNESS THAT OUR RESIDENTS DESERVE. TO QUOTE THE BOSTON EDITORIAL
GLOBE TODAY WHO PUBLISHED AN ARTICLE ABOUT BODY CAMERA POLICY AND TRANSPARENCY. THE ARTICLE SAID THE COUNCIL OUGHT TO MAKE SURE THAT
POLICE AREN'T APPLYING THE INVESTIGATORY EXEMPTION ANY MORE BROADLY THAN IS REALLY NECESSARY. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR CULPEPER COUNCILOR. WELL, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. UH THANK YOU CHAIR.
>> AND I JUST WANT TO THANK EVERYONE UH, WHO'S HERE TODAY. UH, EARLIER THIS YEAR AFTER THE COMMUNITY LED, UH, MEETING THAT SEVERAL COUNCILORS ATTENDED UH, WHICH WAS LED BY, UH ONE OF OUR
STRONG ADVOCATES IN THIS SPACE JAMAL CRAWFORD AND OTHER ADVOCATES WE HEARD DIRECTLY FROM THE COMMUNITY ABOUT THE NEED TO STRENGTHEN THE OFFICE OF POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY.
UH, THAT THEN LED TO COUNTY COUNCILOR FLYNN AND I TO FILE A HEARING OR TWO BACK IN FEBRUARY TO REVIEW OPAC, UH, TO DISCUSS ITS GOALS AND CONTINUE PUSHING THIS CONVERSATION AROUND
TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY . UH, SO IT BEARS REPEATING THAT THE POINT OF ALL OF THIS IS TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY . WHEN A SERIOUS INCIDENT OCCURS INVOLVING OFFICE OF THE CITY.
IT AFFECTS MORE THAN JUST THE INDIVIDUALS DIRECTLY INVOLVED. IT HAS IMPLICATIONS FOR PUBLIC SAFETY, THE PUBLIC TRUST AND FOR THE SENSE OF SECURITY PEOPLE FEEL IN THEIR COMMUNITIES. I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT SECTION 2.2
FROM THE BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER SPECIAL ORDER ON RULE FOUR FIVE THE BODY WORN CAMERA UH, WHICH I WILL REFER TO AS BWC POLICY. UH SECTION 2.2 OUTLINES RULES FOR CAMERA ACTIVATION INCIDENTS
OF USE AND STATES THAT WHEN WEARING A BWC, OFFICERS SHALL RECORD ALL IN PERSON LAW ENFORCEMENT RELATED ENCOUNTERS WITH CIVILIANS WHICH INCLUDES THE FOLLOWING.
ANY CIVILIAN CONTACT OFFICER REASONABLY BELIEVES SHOULD BE RECORDED TO ENHANCE POLICING TRANSPARENCY. INCREASE POLICE TRUST, PUBLIC TRUST AND POLICE COMMUNITY
RELATIONS OR PRESERVE FACTUAL REPRESENTATIONS OF OFFER OFFICER CIVILIAN INTERACTIONS. I'M HIGHLIGHTING THIS BECAUSE THIS IS EXACTLY IN LINE AND WHY WHY WE ARE HERE TODAY TO SEEK
FLAHERTY AND TRANSPARENCY IN THE PROCESS THAT GOVERN WHEN AND HOW IN BODY AND DASH CAM FOOTAGE IS RELEASED. THESE ARE NOT JUST IDEAS THEY
ARE WRITTEN IN BPD CODE. WE HAVE AN OFFICE OF POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY. WE ARE NOT USING THEM FOR THE JOBS WE TAX THEM WITH. THERE HAS BEEN PRECEDENT WHERE
BRIEFINGS AND VIEWINGS OF THESE VIDEOS WERE VIEWED AS A PROCESS CURRENTLY STANDS. OPAC AND O AND OTHER OVERSIGHT BODIES ARE BROUGHT IN INCREDIBLY TOO LATE INTO THE GAME. WE HAVE SEEN OTHER CITIES
ACROSS THE COUNTRY ESTABLISH CLEAR TIMELINES WHICH HELP PROMOTE TRANSPARENCY AND PUBLIC ACCOUNTABILITY. SO I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE CONVERSATION TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE ESTABLISHING THOSE TIMELINES TO MAKE SURE THAT WE
ARE STRENGTHENING PUBLIC ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY HERE IN THE CITY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU COUNCIL WE'RE ALL IN OUR GOING TO GO IN ORDER OF ARRIVAL. UM COUNCILOR MURPHY YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU.
CHAIR. UM THANK YOU DAVE FOR BEING HERE. BODY CAMERAS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ONE OF THE STRONGEST TOOLS WE HAVE FOR TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY. MANY WOULD ARGUE THEY ARE THE
BEST TOOL WE HAVE. AND I'VE HEARD DIRECTLY FROM MANY POLICE OFFICERS WHO AGREE THESE POLICIES ARE MEANT TO PROTECT THE PUBLIC, PROTECT OUR OFFICERS AND PROVIDE A CLEAR
OBJECTIVE RECORD OF WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. BUT I WANT TO BE HONEST ABOUT SOMETHING. THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES WHEN I HAVE PERSONALLY REQUESTED BODY CAM FOOTAGE AND REPORTS FROM
THE POLICE, FIRE AND EMS AFTER INCIDENTS AND HAVE NOT RECEIVED THEM. SO THAT RAISES A VERY SIMPLE QUESTION WHO MAKES THAT CALL AND WHY? WHY IS FOOTAGE SHARED IN SOME
CASES BUT NOT OTHERS? IS THAT DECISION BEING DRIVEN BY LAW AND PROCEDURE OR IS IT INFLUENCED BY PRESSURE, TIMING OR PUBLIC REACTION? BECAUSE FROM THE OUTSIDE
WITHOUT CLEAR AND CONSISTENT STANDARDS YOU CAN START TO FEEL SELECTIVE. AND THAT TO ME IS THE PROBLEM. I AM FULLY SUPPORTIVE OF TRANSPARENCY AND I BELIEVE IN IT STRONGLY.
BUT TRANSPARENCY ONLY WORKS IF IT IS CONSISTENT. IT CANNOT DEPEND ON THE SITUATION. IT CANNOT DEPEND ON THE CASE AND IT CERTAINLY NOT CANNOT DEPEND ON POLITICS.
IF WE'RE GOING TO RELY ON BODY CAMERAS AS A TOOL TO BUILD PUBLIC TRUST, THEN THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND WHEN FOOTAGE WILL BE RELEASED, WHO MAKES THAT DECISION AND WHAT STANDARDS ARE BEING APPLIED
ACROSS THE BOARD. THAT IS WHAT I'M LOOKING FOR FLAHERTY TODAY. I WANT TO THANK YOU, COUNCILOR CULPEPER FOR UPLIFTING THE QUESTION WHERE IS POLICE LEADERSHIP? BUT I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION
ALSO. I WANT TO ADDRESS SOMETHING I'M HEARING REPEATEDLY, WHICH IS THAT THE DECISION TO RELEASE BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE IS THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S CALL. AND IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN
WE NEED TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT AND WE NEED TO HEAR DIRECTLY FROM THE SUFFOLK COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WHAT WE HAVE IS A LACK OF FLAHERTY ABOUT WHO IS ACTUALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE
DECISIONS. IS IT THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT? IS IT THE LAW DEPARTMENT OR IS IT THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY? OR DOES IT DEPEND ON EACH CASE? AND IF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY IS
MAKING THAT DECISION THEN WHY ISN'T THEIR OFFICE HERE TODAY OR AT LEAST REPRESENTED HERE TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS? WE CANNOT HAVE A SYSTEM WHERE DECISIONS OF THIS MAGNITUDE ARE BEING MADE, BUT NO ONE IS
CLEARLY ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PUBLIC OR TO US ON THE COUNCIL BECAUSE WHEN RESPONSIBILITY IS UNCLEAR TRUST BREAKS DOWN. SO I'M LOOKING FOR A CLEAR ANSWER TODAY. WHO IS IN CHARGE OF MAKING THAT
CALL AND WHAT ARE THE CONSISTENT STANDARDS BEING USED ? SO THANK YOU CHAIR. THANK YOU COUNCILOR MURPHY. I ALSO JUST WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE WE'VE BEEN JOINED BY COUNCILOR WEBER. UM. COUNCILOR FLYNN, YOU HAVE THE
FLOOR. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. AND WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO REVEREND CULPEPER AND COUNCILOR WORRELL FOR BRINGING US FORWARD. I ALSO WANT TO THANK LEGAL COUNCILOR FROM THE BOSTON
POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR BEING HERE FOR THE IMPORTANT WORK THAT YOU DO AS WELL. MY POSITION ON THIS ISSUE IS I BELIEVE THE BOSTON POLICE AND
IN DISTRICT ATTORNEY THERE SHOULD BE A STANDARD A WRITTEN STANDARD OF WHEN THIS INFORMATION IS RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC AND BE CONSISTENT WITH
THAT POLICY. AND DON'T BE SELECTIVE AND BE TRANSPARENT. BE ACCOUNTABLE AND HAVE A POLICY THAT WORKS FOR EVERYBODY FOR THE POLICE, FOR THE
DISTRICT ATTORNEY, FOR THE PUBLIC. UM FOR THE POLICE OFFICERS AS WELL. BUT I THINK HAVING NO POLICY
ONLY OPENS UP AND INVITES QUESTIONS IF WE'RE BEING SELECTIVE OR NOT IN TERMS OF WHEN VIDEO IS RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC OR IF CERTAIN PEOPLE
CAN'T SEE IT. WHAT I WOULD ADVOCATE FOR IS ONE POLICY WHERE EVERYONE AGREES ON. EVERYONE ACCEPTS IT WHEN VIDEO
IS RELEASED IN KEEP THAT POLICY AND RELEASE IT AND ABIDE BY THAT POLICY REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE WHAT THE SITUATION IS, WHETHER IT'S UM A POSITIVE SITUATION OR A NEGATIVE
SITUATION. BUT I THINK WHEN WE ARE SELECTIVE WHEN GIVING OUT AND SHOWING THE VIDEO UM, IT DOES BREAK DOWN TRANSPARENCY, IT DOES BREAK DOWN ACCOUNTABILITY.
AND I THINK THOUGH THAT'S WHAT'S IMPORTANT IN THIS DEBATE. I WORKED WITH COUNCILOR WORRELL AND AND OTHERS ON UM WORKING TO
HAVE A HEARING WITH OPEN. I VISITED OLD PAT AND HAD A DISCUSSION WITH EVANDRO UH CARVALHO WHO IS THE CHAIR OF THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
OF THE BOARD OVER THERE AND GOT INTO THE DETAILS OF EXACTLY WHAT THAT OFFICE IS ACCOUNTABLE FOR. BUT I DO THINK WE NEED TO ENSURE THAT WE ARE TRANSPARENT.
WE ARE ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PUBLIC AND WE HAVE ONE STANDARD ,UM THAT EVERYONE ABIDE BY, ABIDE BY AND RESPECTS. UH, MR CHAIR, THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FLYNN.
COUNCILOR FITZGERALD, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. UH. >> I LOOK FORWARD TO REVIEWING THE EXISTING POLICY, DISCUSSING ANY NEEDED OR PROPOSED UPDATES TO THE POLICY AND GETTING A BETTER UNDERSTANDING TO HOW
THIS POLICY AND ITS CONSISTENT EXPECTATIONS PROCEED INTO THE FUTURE. I THINK WE UNDERSTAND THAT EVERY INTERACTION IS UNIQUE AND SOMETIMES NOT ANY ONE POLICY CAN COVER EVERYTHING AND SO
THERE IS SOMETIMES NEED FOR FLEXIBILITY. UH BUT LOOK FORWARD TO AN EXPECTED CONSISTENCY AND IN THE FUTURE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU COUNCILOR FITZGERALD. COUNCILOR LOUIJEUNE, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU AND THANK YOU TO MY COLLEAGUES FOR BRINGING THIS
MATTER FORWARD. I WANT TO THANK UM YOU KNOW, I THINK WE MAY BE AT A PLACE WHERE WE EXPECT, UH, BODY WORN CAMERAS AS A GIVEN, BUT THERE ARE STILL JURISDICTIONS IN OUR STATE THAT HAVE NOT ADOPTED,
UH, BODY CAMERA USAGE. UM, I WANT TO THANK THE ADVOCATES WHO MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR, UH, FOR THERE TO BE, UH, BODY CAMERAS HERE AMONG OUR BOSTON POLICE. I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT AS
EITHER AS A TOOL TO EITHER CORROBORATE OR TO, UH, CALL INTO QUESTION POLICE REPORTS THAT ARE, UH, SOMETIMES FACTUAL ,SOMETIMES, UH, GOING AGAINST
WHAT IS SHOWN ON THE ON THE CAMERA. UH, AND SO I THINK IT WAS AN INCREDIBLE PUSH BY ADVOCATES TO MAKE IT A REQUIREMENT HERE IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. IF YOU REVIEW AND I AND I
STATED THIS I THINK WHEN THIS WAS FIRST BROUGHT HERE BEFORE THE COUNCIL AND UH AT THE COMMUNITY MEETING THAT HAPPENED UM A FEW WEEKS AGO UM AFTER UM
UH AFTER THE INCIDENT THAT HAS CALLED THIS ALL INTO QUESTION THAT JURISDICTIONS VARY ACROSS THE COUNTRY WITH RESPECT TO UH, RELEASE OF FOOTAGE. UH, SOME REQUIRE SOME STATES
REQUIRE THE RELEASE OF, UH, BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE WITHIN 2440 EIGHT HOURS UH, OF OF AN INCIDENT OCCURRING OR WITHIN A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST AND AND
OTHER AREAS LIKE HERE UM THE TASK FORCE THAT WAS PUT TOGETHER THERE IS SOME DISCRETION AT THE STATE LEVEL. I THINK WHAT WE'RE DOING TODAY IS CALLING INTO QUESTION THAT DISCRETION WHETHER IT'S ONE
THAT WE WANT TO UPHOLD AND I THINK RIGHTFULLY SO. MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC HAVE ASKED WELL WHY IN IN AN INCIDENT TO MAKE CERTAIN DEMOGRAPHICS CERTAIN PEOPLE LOOK BAD. DO WE RELEASE CAMERA FOOTAGE IF THERE'S A PARTY OR SOMETHING
THAT GOES WRONG BUT WHEN IT LOOKS LIKE WHEN IT'S TO PROTECT UH, SOME PEOPLE UH, THAT CAMERA FOOTAGE ISN'T RELEASED IMMEDIATELY AND SO I THINK HAVING SOME SORT OF UNDERSTANDING AS TO HOW THAT DISCRETION IS USED BOTH BY THE
DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND UH, THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT WOULD BE GOOD TO UNDERSTAND BECAUSE WHEN IT'S APPLIED IN A WAY THAT FEELS UNFAIR OR DISCRIMINATORY ,YOU GET SUCH A REACTION. SO I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING,
UM, FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT ABOUT WHAT THE STANDARD IS, UH, DURING INVESTIGATIONS, UH, WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST AND HOW WE CAN IMPROVE THE POLICY THAT WE USE UH, RIGHT NOW. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
COUNCILOR RICH AND I ALSO WANTED RECOGNIZE WE'VE BEEN JOINED BY COUNCILOR COLLETTE AS A PARTNER. COUNCILOR WEBER, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND THANK YOU TO THE FILERS FOR, UH, YOU KNOW, GETTING US HERE TO HAVE THIS REALLY
IMPORTANT CONVERSATION. UM, YOU KNOW THE POLICY, UH, THE BODY CAMERA POLICIES AND THE RELEASE OF FOOTAGE IS DESIGNED TO, UH, YOU KNOW, INCREASE TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY IN LAW
ENFORCEMENT. UH, YOU KNOW, I THINK NOW IS A GOOD TIME, UH, TO TO LOOK AT OUR POLICIES TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR RULES ARE ACTUALLY FURTHERING THOSE GOALS. I DO THINK, YOU KNOW, IN LIGHT
OF RECENT EVENTS, I'M NOT SURE OUR OUR RULES NECESSARILY ADDRESS THIS KIND OF SCENARIO WHERE THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY HAS BROUGHT CRIMINAL CHARGES FAIRLY SWIFTLY.
I THINK MOST OF THESE RULES ARE SET IN PLACE WHERE THERE IS IN ACTION AND WE'RE LOOKING FOR UH ,ACTION FROM OUR UH, YOU KNOW, FROM THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY OR OTHER LEADERS. SO I'M INTERESTED TO TALK ABOUT
HOW, YOU KNOW, CURRENT EVENTS ARE GOING TO SHAPE OUR POLICY IN THE FUTURE AND UH, JUST GLAD TO BE HERE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR WEBER. COUNCILOR, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU. >> CHAIR. >> UM, I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY OPENING REMARKS. JUST REALLY LOOK FORWARD TO
GETTING INTO THE CONVERSATION. UM, I WILL JUST SAY IT'S, UM IT'S IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THIS, UH, ISSUE HAS EVOLVED BACK IN 2018. I REMEMBER WHEN THEN JUST GONE INTO A WHILE BEFORE EVEN CHIEF
WAS HERE ADVOCATING FOR BODY CAMERAS AND WE HAD THE THEN POLICE COMMISSIONER HERE AND THE ROOM WAS PACKED WITH ADVOCATES AND REALLY PUSHING FOR UM FOR THIS AND TO HAVE
THIS AS A TOOL FOR ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY . SO I APPRECIATE THE FILERS AND YOU KNOW, THE UM THE GENERAL CONVERSATION THAT WE WILL HAVE I ALSO HAVE QUESTIONS AND GO TO
COUNCILOR WEBER AND UH AGAIN LOOK FORWARD TO THE CONVERSATION. THANK YOU. >> COUNCILOR COLLETTE AS A PARTNER UM, AND FOR MYSELF AS CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SAFETY AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE, I TAKE SERIOUSLY OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO ENSURE THAT
THE PUBLIC UNDERSTANDS HOW DECISIONS ARE MADE, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO TRANSPARENT TRANSPARENCY AND POLICING. UM, THE PROTOCOLS GOVERNING THE RELEASE OF BOSTON POLICE
BODY-WORN AND DASHBOARD CAMERA FOOTAGE ARE OFTEN COMPLEX SHAPED BY LEGAL REQUIREMENTS, ACTIVE INVESTIGATIONS AND INTERNAL PROCEDURES. UM BUT COMPLEXITY CANNOT BE A
BARRIER TO PUBLIC TRUST. TODAY'S HEARING IS ABOUT BRINGING FLAHERTY TO THOSE PROCESSES. IT'S ABOUT ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTIONS, IDENTIFYING WHERE THE GAPS EXIST AND MAKING SURE OUR RESIDENTS HAVE ACCESS TO
CLEAR, TIMELY AND UNDERSTANDABLE INFORMATION. I'M COMMITTED TO WORKING WITH ALL STAKEHOLDERS TO STRENGTHEN TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY AND TO ENSURE THAT OUR POLICIES REFLECT THE TRUST OF BOSTON RESIDENTS I EXPECT AND DESERVE
. UM AND WITH THAT I WOULD NOW LIKE TO INTRODUCE TODAY'S PANELISTS. UM WE WILL HAVE THREE DIFFERENT PANEL TODAY. UM, IN THE FIRST PANEL WE WILL HEAR FROM DAVE FRED UM
FREDERICK, GENERAL COUNCILOR OF THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT. UM THE SECOND PANEL WILL FEATURE EVANDRO CARVALHO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY.
AND LASTLY FOR OUR THIRD PANEL WE WILL HEAR FROM UM UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR DOCTOR CHRISTOPHER SCHNEIDER. UM, SO UM I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DAVE
FREDERICK UM, GENERAL UM FROM THE GENERAL COUNCILOR WITH THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT TO PROVIDE OPENING REMARKS. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US HERE TODAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. HERE TODAY. UM, IF YOU CAN JUST ACTUALLY
SPEAK CLOSER TO THE MIC SO WE CAN ALL THANK YOU. UM, THANK YOU FOR HAVING MEJIA TODAY. I WANT TO ADDRESS THAT AS THE LEGAL ADVISOR TO THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT. I'M FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO WORK
FOR MICHAEL COX AND I SHARE HIS MISSION OF COMMUNITY POLICING IN TRANSPARENCY. EVERYTHING THAT I ADVISE HIM ON FURTHERS THAT GOAL, INCLUDING THE RELEASE OF BODY CAMERA.
WHAT WE DO IS WE LOOK AT EACH CASE AS THEY COME IN. WE HAD APPROXIMATELY 800 REQUESTS FOR BODY CAMERA IN 2025. WE RELEASED ALMOST 500 OF THOSE REQUESTS, SOME WE COULDN'T
RELEASE FOR CERTAIN REASONS THAT WE'LL ADDRESS HERE TODAY. UM, I'VE BEEN THE LEGAL ADVISOR FOR SEVEN YEARS AT THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT. I WAS THERE IN A ROOM WITH JAMAL CRAWFORD WHEN WE WERE
TALKING ABOUT PUTTING BODY CAMERAS ON BOSTON POLICE OFFICERS. I WAS PART OF THAT CONVERSATION. I WAS AN ADVOCATE TO PUT CAMERAS ON THE OFFICES IN BOSTON. I THINK THE CITY OF BOSTON IS
FAR ABOVE THE CURVE ON OTHER CITIES AND TOWNS IN MASSACHUSETTS. I'M ALSO PRIOR TO BEING THE LEGAL ADVISOR FOR THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT. I WAS IN THE SUFFOLK COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE FOR
17 YEARS. I WORKED ON THE CASES OF DEATH INVESTIGATIONS. SO I'VE HAD A UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE TO LOOK AT THINGS FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE AND FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE POSITION THAT I'M IN NOW.
EVERYTHING THAT WE DO IS GOVERNED BY THE LAW. THAT'S WHY I'M HERE TODAY AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE LEADERSHIP OF THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT. RULE 405.
DEFERS AND DEFAULTS BACK TO THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW OF MASSACHUSETTS. EVERYTHING WE DO IS SUBJECT TO THAT LAW. THERE IS ANOTHER LAW IN MASSACHUSETTS MASSACHUSETTS
GENERAL LAW SECTION 30 CHAPTER 38 SECTION FOUR WHICH CONTROLS DEATH INVESTIGATIONS BECAUSE WE HAD A CHANCE TO TALK ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT BEFORE THIS. WE MAY DIFFER ON EXACTLY WHAT
THAT STATUTE MEANS, BUT THE INCIDENT THE UNFORTUNATE INCIDENT THAT BRINGS US ALL HERE TODAY IS A DEATH INVESTIGATION AS IN ALL DEATH INVESTIGATIONS THE SUFFOLK COUNTY IN BOSTON, THE SUFFOLK
COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. IS THE ONE. >> WHO. DIRECTS AND CONTROLS THAT INVESTIGATION. THIS PARTICULAR CASE HE CAME OUT AND HE SAID IN PUBLIC THAT
THIS CASE IS GOING TO GO BEFORE A GRAND JURY AND THAT NO BODY CAMERA VIDEO IS GOING TO BE RELEASED PRIOR TO THAT. WE NEED TO ABIDE BY THAT UNDER ONE OF THE EXEMPTIONS UNDER THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW.
WE NEED TO ABIDE BY THAT. SO I HOPE I CAN ANSWER SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT EVERYBODY HAS HERE TODAY AND ANYTHING I CAN'T ANSWER I'LL DO MY BEST TO FOLLOW UP ON AFTER THIS HERE. AWESOME. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR OPENING REMARKS AND AGAIN FOR
BEING HERE. WE'RE NOW GOING TO GO UM TO COUNCILORS QUESTIONS. UM STARTING WITH THE LEAD SPONSORS AND THEN WE'RE GOING TO GO TO UM IN ORDER OF ARRIVAL . UM GIVEN THAT WE HAVE UM SO
MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES HERE. UM, I AM GOING TO DO FIVE MINUTES PER COUNCILOR. UM, AND THEN WE WILL UM IF WE NEED TO DO A SECOND ROUND UM WE WILL DO SO. UM SO WITH THAT UM I'M GOING TO
PASS IT OVER TO COUNCILOR CULPEPER. UM, YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. >> CHAIR SANTANA. GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN COUNCIL. AND I WANT TO LET. LET'S GO RIGHT TO 4 OR 5 UNDER
4 OR 5. THE POLICE COMMISSIONER. HAS HIS OWN AUTHORITY TO MAKE A DECISION ON WHETHER OR NOT TO
ALLOW, UH, THE PUBLIC OR OVERSIGHT OFFICIALS TO REVIEW BODY CAM FOOTAGE. IS THAT CORRECT? IN MOST CIRCUMSTANCES, YES, SIR.
AND SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT 38 FOUR WHERE IT SAYS THAT THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY OR HIS LAW ENFORCEMENT REPRESENTATIVE SHALL. DIRECT AND CONTROL THE INVESTIGATION OF THE DEATH.
AND SHALL COORDINATE THE. INVESTIGATION WITH THE MEDICAL EXAMINER AND THE. POLICE DEPARTMENT. AND THE JURISDICTION WHO'S WHERE THE DEATH OCCURRED. THAT GIVES THE.
COMMISSIONER INDEPENDENT APPROVAL TO REVIEW OR RELEASE. BODY CAM. AM I CORRECT? IN A DEATH INVESTIGATION, SIR? NO SIR. YOU'RE NOT CORRECT. WELL, IT SAYS THAT THE DISTRICT
ATTORNEY OVERSEES THE DEATH. >> AND THAT'S THE GREATEST. IN COOPERATION WITH. IT DIDN'T SAY THAT HE DIRECTS THE COMMISSIONER. SO I'VE SAID IN COOPERATION WITH THAT MEANS THEY WORK
TOGETHER. AM I CORRECT? WE ALWAYS WORK TOGETHER WITH THEM. AND AT TIMES YOU DISAGREE. ISN'T THAT CORRECT? AT TIMES WE MAY. AND IF THEY DISAGREED IF THE DISTRICT.
ATTORNEY SAID WELL WE'RE NOT GOING TO RELEASE. IT BUT. >> THE COMMISSIONER SAID WE WILL RELEASE IT. THE COMMISSIONER HAS THAT AUTHORITY. ISN'T THAT CORRECT? UNDER 38 FOUR? >> NO, SIR. BUT HE. >> HAS IT UNDER 4 OR 5.
BUT WHERE IT SAYS THAT THE COMMISSIONER CAN APPROVE THE RELEASE OF THE BODY. CAMERA FOOTAGE. WITH ALL DUE. >> RESPECT OR UNDER 405. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT YOUR FULL 405 WHICH I HELPED DRAFT. IT'S A RULE FOR THE BOSTON
POLICE DEPARTMENT. BUT WHAT MY QUESTION IS DOES WHEN I COUNCILOR MY QUESTION IS . THE COMMISSIONER UNDER 405 HAS THE AUTHORITY TO APPROVE THE
RELEASE OF BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE? AM I CORRECT? YOU ARE CORRECT. YES, SIR. AND UNDER 405 THERE ARE CERTAIN PROCEDURES FOR EVEN THE PUBLIC TO REQUEST FOR RELEASE.
>> OF THE BODY. CAMERA FOOTAGE. AM I CORRECT? YES. AND IN THIS CASE THE COMMISSIONER HAS DECIDED THAT THE BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE WON'T
BE RELEASED. AM I CORRECT? THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY HAS DECIDED THE BODY CAM MOVEMENT. BUT MY. HERE'S MY QUESTION. HERE'S MY QUESTION. THE COMMISSIONER HAS DECIDED
BECAUSE WE JUST AGREED THAT HE HAS HIS OWN AREA OF AUTHORITY TO APPROVE OR DISAPPROVE THE RELEASE OF BODY CAM. MY QUESTION IS IN THIS CASE, DID HE DECIDE NOT TO APPROVE
THE RELEASE. >> OF THIS BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE ? >> ALL DUE RESPECT, BUT WE DIDN'T AGREE THAT HE HAS THE DISCRETION IN THIS CASE TO DECIDE THAT. NO. WE AGREE THAT UNDER FOUR FIVE HE. HAS THE AUTHORITY. TO APPROVE OR DISAPPROVE THE
RELEASE OF. >> BODY CAM FOOTAGE. >> WE AGREE ON THAT RIGHT? RULE 405. GIVES THAT WE AGREE ON THAT RIGHT? WE AGREE ON THAT. BUT IT WILL ALWAYS BE TRUMPED BY A DEATH INVESTIGATION AND A
MASSACHUSETTS STATUTE WILL ALWAYS TRUMP A BOSTON POLICE. BUT EVEN UNDER THAT MASSACHUSETTS STATUTE IT DOESN'T. SAY THAT HE HAS TO FOLLOW THE DIRECTION OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY.
WHAT IT SAYS IS IN COOPERATION WITH SO THE POLICE COMMISSIONER HAS HIS OWN SAY ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT EVEN IN A DEATH INVESTIGATION THAT BODY
CAM FOOTAGE. GETS RELEASED. AND LET ME JUST SAY THIS. IN THE PAST I'VE SAID WITH THE COMMISSIONER GRASS RIGHT AND OTHER MINISTERS RIGHT. WE SAID WE REVIEW BODY.
CAMERA RIGHT AT. POLICE HEADQUARTERS RIGHT. COUNCILOR? >> YES. >> YES. HE MADE A DECISION TO APPROVE US REVIEWING IT. AM I RIGHT COUNCIL?
I CAN'T COUNCIL YES OR NO? I DON'T. >> IF YOU DON'T KNOW IT WASN'T THERE. OKAY. >> I WAS. THERE AND I'M TELLING YOU I WAS THERE. BUT IN ORDER FOR ME TO HAVE BEEN THERE THE COMMISSIONER HAVE HAD TO MADE THE DECISION
TO APPROVE THE REVIEW OF THE BODY. CAM FOOTAGE. ISN'T THAT CORRECT? ON A DEATH INVESTIGATION I WOULD SAY. NO NO NO NO. IT WAS A. IT WAS ANGELA WEST.
SO WE SAT WITH THE COMMISSIONER DURING THE DEATH INVESTIGATION AND REVIEWED THE BODY FOOTAGE. THAT'S THE CASE WITH THE POLICE AFTER WE GET SHOT IN THE FACE. YES. AND WE WERE RIGHT. AND THE COMMISSIONER APPROVED
THAT. ISN'T THAT CORRECT? I WASN'T THERE AT THE TIME, SIR. I DON'T KNOW, BUT BUT I'M. TELLING YOU I WAS THERE. SO IF I WAS THERE. WITH THE WITH THE COOPERATION
OR THE CONSENT OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY. NO, NO. >> WE'RE NOT ASSUMING I DON'T WANT YOU TO ASSUME I WANT YOU TO ANSWER. YOUR QUESTION ABOUT SOMETHING THAT I WASN'T AT. SO I HAVE TO ASSUME. KIND OF YOU CAN PUT YOU CAN
FINISH UP. COUNCIL HERE'S MY FINAL QUESTION IN ORDER FOR THE BOSTON CITY COUNCIL. TO SEE THAT BODY CAM FOOTAGE. WHAT PROCEDURES WOULD WE HAVE
TO FOLLOW OR PROTOCOL. IF YOU WOULD HAVE TO FILE A 17 AT PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST AND AT THIS JUNCTURE IN TIME THAT WOULD BE DENIED BASED ON THE
THE STATUS OF THE DEATH INVESTIGATION THAT'S BEING RUN BY THE SUFFOLK COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. >> I FOUND ONE PERSON. I KIND OF WANT. YES, CORRECT. SO THERE'S THERE'S NO REAL PROTOCOL FOR THE POLICE.
COMMISSIONER TO FOLLOW IN ORDER TO RELEASE. BODY CAM FOOTAGE. THE PROTOCOL IS GOVERNED BY THE MASSACHUSETTS PUBLIC RECORDS LAW AND OTHER STATUTES. BUT THERE'S NO BOSTON POLICE
DEPARTMENT PROTOCOL LIKE THERE IS UNDER 405 FOR EVERYONE ELSE THAT WANT EVEN THE PUBLIC THAT WANTS TO REVIEW THE BODY CAM FOOTAGE.
THERE'S NO POLICY OR PROCEDURE EVEN UNDER 4 OR 5. >> IT DIDN'T RULE 405 DIRECTLY TO MAKE A PUBLIC RECORD. SO MY QUESTION IS IF THAT'S THE CASE, WHAT'S THE POLICY PROCEDURE THAT THIS CITY
COUNCIL WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH IN ORDER TO REVIEW THE BODY CAM FOOTAGE. >> THE SAME EXACT PROCEDURE THAT'S DICTATED WHAT. IS IT? >> CAN YOU TELL US WHAT IT IS TO. FILE A 17 F WHICH YOU'D GET THE SAME THING THAT SOMEBODY WOULD GET ON A PUBLIC RECORDS
REQUEST. >> BUT WE COULD FILE A SUBPOENA, COULDN'T WE? IF YOU COULD. AND WE WOULD DELIVER. >> THAT TO COUNCIL. WOULDN'T WE? YOU COULD. OKAY. THANK YOU. COUNCILOR. THANK YOU. UM. COUNCILOR CULPEPER. UM, COUNCILOR WE'RE ALL YOU
HAVE THE FLOOR. UH THANK YOU, CHAIR. AND I KNOW A LOT OF RULES HAVE BEEN THROWN AROUND IF YOU COULD JUST WALK. THROUGH. >> UM, THE POLICY, UM, WHERE IT COULD BE FOUND. UM, FOR THE PUBLIC TO REVIEW.
>> BUT IF YOU. >> JUST WALK THROUGH US WITH THE POLICY ON BODY CAMERA ONE FOOTAGE AND WHEN IT WHEN IT IS RELEASED. RULE 405 IS THE RULE OF THE FOR. BODY WORN CAMERAS IN THE BOSTON
POLICE DEPARTMENT. UM AND IT THERE'S A SECTION IN RULE 405 THAT TALKS ABOUT GETTING ACCESS TO BODY WORN CAMERAS AND FOR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THEY WOULD NEED TO FILE A.
PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST. AS I SAID IN MY OPENING STATEMENT, WE HAD OVER 800 REQUESTS FOR BODY WORN CAMERA LAST YEAR AT 2025. WE FULFILLED APPROXIMATELY 500 OF THOSE. OTHER ONES WERE DENIED FOR
CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS THAT WOULD EXIST UNDER THE THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW. UM OTHER ONES. POSSIBLY WILL WITH CRIME. UM SO. >> IT'S RULE 405. IS WHERE THE PUBLIC WOULD LOOK TO SEE HOW TO GET THAT. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY IT'S.
THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW. CHAPTER 66 OF THE MASSACHUSETTS GENERAL LAWS ON HOW TO DO A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST. FOR A SUBPOENA OR A 17 F FOR
THE COUNCIL. AND UH, YOU SAID THAT UH, ACTS LIKE 300 OF THE REQUESTS OR 500 THE REQUESTS HAVE BEEN. WELL. >> 500 BEEN RELEASED. SOUNDS LIKE THREE TIMES HAVE BEEN DENIED. I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT NUMBERS,
BUT THAT'S WHAT THE. BALLPARK UH AND FOR WHAT REASONS HAVE THOSE OTHER FOOTAGE BEEN DENIED? OFF THE TOP OF. >> MY HEAD. YEAH. I MEAN, I GUESS I CATEGORICALLY. >> I DON'T WANT TO. ASSUME WHY THEY WERE DENIED SO.
UM. >> THAT MOST OF THEM WOULD BE THAT THE EXEMPTIONS UNDER THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW THAT WE DEAL WITH MOSTLY ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE. TALKING ABOUT BODY CAMERA. IS GOING TO BE EXEMPTION AFTER THE INVESTIGATIVE EXEMPTION.
SO ANYTHING THAT'S PENDING THIS ISN'T JUST WITH DEATH INVESTIGATIONS. NOW CLEARLY IF IT'S NOT A DEATH INVESTIGATION IS GOING THE DISCRETION IS ON THE PART OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY DOES NOT.
CONTROL IF IT'S NOT A. DEATH INVESTIGATION, BUT IF THERE'S A PENDING CRIMINAL CASE THAT'S. ONGOING. >> THEN THE RULES OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE. >> RULE 1417 ARE GOING TO DICTATE WHEN AND HOW THAT
EVIDENCE GETS TURNED OVER IN THE CRIMINAL MATTER. AGAIN, THE PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST HAS TO TAKE A BACKSEAT TO THE CRIMINAL PROCESS. THE CRIMINAL PROCESS IS WHAT. WE HAVE FAITH IN THE CRIMINAL.
PROCESS ON EVERY. SINGLE CASE DOESN'T MATTER WHO THE DEFENDANT IS AND WHO THE VICTIMS ARE. THE CRIMINAL. PROCESS TAKES PRECEDENT. OVER A PUBLIC. RECORDS REQUEST. SO THAT WOULD BE EXEMPTION IF
THERE'S ALSO EXEMPTION A WHICH IS STATUTORY OR BY IMPLICATION STATUTORY. UM DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. SEXUAL ASSAULT. IF THEY. >> ARE BODY WORN CAMERAS. RELATED TO DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. >> AND SEXUAL ASSAULT. THOSE WOULD NOT BE TURNED OVER.
UM IF THEY DEPICT JUVENILES UH THERE'S A POSSIBILITY THAT THOSE WOULDN'T BE TURNED OVER. SO THERE'S A. LOT OF DIFFERENT EXEMPTIONS. IT'S NOT JUST EXEMPTION F UM EXEMPTION A EXEMPTION. C PRIVACY.
UM, THERE MAY BE A BODY WORN CAMERA. THAT DEPICTS SOMEBODY. IN A STATE THAT. THEIR PRIVACY. >> WOULD. OUTWEIGH THE PUBLIC'S RIGHT TO SEE THAT BODY CAMERA. UM, MUCH MORE.
DISCRETIONARY THE EXEMPTION. SEE? UM, AND I THINK THERE'S LAST COUNT I THINK THERE'S 24 SEPARATE EXEMPTIONS UNDER UM THE MASSACHUSETTS PUBLIC
RECORDS LAW BUT THOSE ARE THE THREE. THAT COME INTO PLAY MOST OFTEN A C AND F. YOU SEE IN THERE. UH THANK YOU THAT UM AND THEN
YOU SPOKE ABOUT UH YOUR EXPERIENCE UM, AND YOUR WORK EXPERIENCE OVER AT THE DA'S OFFICE. UM, HOW DOES THAT PERSPECTIVE SHAPE YOUR ADVICE, UH, TO BPD ON WHETHER BODY CAM FOOTAGE
SHOULD BE RELEASED, PARTICULARLY IN CASES WHERE THERE MAY BE TENSION BETWEEN TRANSPARENCY AND PROTECTING AN INVESTIGATION? UM. >> THE INVESTIGATION. IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE PARAMOUNT
AND TAKE CONTROL. UM. >> WE DIDN'T I DIDN'T DEAL WITH PUBLIC RECORDS WHEN I WAS IN THE DA'S OFFICE. UM, THERE WAS A DIFFERENT UNIT THAT DID THAT BUT. IT THE THE INTEGRITY OF THE
INVESTIGATION ALWAYS HAS TO TAKE PRECEDENCE. UM, AND. WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT. WHETHER OR NOT CRIMINAL CHARGES ARE GOING. TO ISSUE, THERE IS THEN GOING TO. >> BE. DUE PROCESS CONCERNS. >> FOR THE DEFENDANT IN THAT
CRIMINAL CASE AND YOU KNOW, A YOU KNOW, AN EARLY RELEASE OF THAT EVIDENCE THAT COULD JEOPARDIZE THE CASE. >> IN SOME WAY. WHETHER IT'S GOT A TAINT WHEN. >> A. WITNESS SAYS BEFORE THE POLICE HAVE A CHANCE TO SPEAK TO THEM.
OR BEFORE THEY. TESTIFY IN THE GRAND JURY. ALWAYS HAS TO TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER THE RELEASE OF PUBLIC RECORDS. AND THEN MY LAST QUESTION I SEE MY TIME DWINDLING DOWN.
UH, YOU MENTIONED THAT UH, HERE UM, IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. UH AH, YOU KNOW, BODY WORN CAMERA UH, POLICY IS UH, YOU KNOW, LEADING IN THE COMMONWEALTH. UH.
>> TO SAY THAT OKAY, I THINK WE'RE AHEAD OF THE CURVE AS FAR AS GETTING BODY WORN. CAMERAS AND BODY WORN CAMERAS. OKAY, SO WHEN IT COMES TO CREATING A TIMELINE ON, UH, YOU KNOW, RELEASING THAT FOOTAGE,
UM, ARE THERE ANY CITIES? I'M IN TERMS OF MY TIMELINE THAT YOU WOULD POINT. TO. >> UH, THAT WE AS A BODY PAST THE CITY COUNCIL SHOULD TAKE UP TO SEE IF WE CAN AT LEAST USE AS A TEMPLATE.
I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY. NOT AWARE OF ANY OTHER CITY THAT HAS TRANSPARENCY TIMELINES AROUND BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE. I'M NOT. >> OKAY. >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU. >> COUNCILOR. WELL, UM, UH, I WANT TO JUST ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE'VE BEEN
JOINED BY COUNCILOR BOURBON. UM, COUNCILOR MURPHY, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU. >> UM. >> SO RULE 405 GOVERNS THAT. BODY WORN CAMERAS ARE. USED, UM.
FOR LEGITIMATE LAW ENFORCEMENT PURPOSES. AND IN THE CASE WHERE REFERRING TO IT WAS BEING USED AND THERE IS FOOTAGE THAT SHOWS IT.
BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT UM CHAPTER 38 SECTION FOUR IT GOES INTO LIKE THE DE WHEN THE MEDICAL EXAMINER IF THERE'S A DEATH OR
A QUESTION UM QUESTIONABLE ACTION. SO MY QUESTION IS WERE OTHER VIDEOS TAKEN AT THE SCENE BY THE MEDICAL EXAMINER THE DA'S
OFFICE OR IS THE ONLY VIDEO FROM THAT INCIDENT. THE BODY. WORN CAMERA FROM. THE OFFICER? I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE WAS TAKEN AT THE SCENE. I PERSONALLY EVEN AS A GENERAL
COUNCILOR TO THE BOSTON POLICE BUT I HAVE NOT SEEN THE VIDEO MYSELF SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE WAS TAKEN. AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE RULES AND I KNOW WE HAVE A LOT OF EXEMPTIONS, THERE'S BEEN UM.
YOU KNOW. ABOUT PUBLIC RECORDS HERE IN THE CITY BUT WOULD ONLY BODY WORN CAMERA FALL UNDER THAT OR THE SAME REQUEST CAN BE MADE FOR ANY OTHER VIDEOS THAT MAY
HAVE BEEN TAKEN. >> FROM OTHER. AGENCIES AT. >> THE SCENE. ANYTHING THAT'S IN THE CUSTODY AND CONTROL OF THE BOSTON POLICE. DEPARTMENT WOULD FALL UNDER THE. >> PUBLIC RECORDS LAW. WOULD VIDEO FROM THE MEDICAL EXAMINER BE PART FALL UNDER WHAT THE POLICE.
HAVE ACCESS TO? IF IT'S IN THAT FILE AT WOULD IF WE DON'T HAVE A COPY OF IT IT WOULD. NOT BUT THEY WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW. WHO HAVE SEEN THE VIDEO?
I DON'T KNOW. I HAS. HAS ANYONE SEEN IT OTHER THAN THE DA? WELL THE. I ASSUME HE SAW IT. I I DON'T WANT TO ASSUME WHAT I YOU KNOW.
BUT UM. AS FAR AS AT THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT, I CAN TELL YOU I. THINK THE ONLY. PEOPLE THAT. HAVE ACCESS TO THE VIDEO IS THE THE FITTED THE FIREARM
DISCHARGE INVESTIGATION TEAM THAT WENT AND INVESTIGATED. THE CASE. MHM. AND THE BUREAU CHIEF OF THE BUREAU OF INVESTIGATIVE. SERVICES AND I BELIEVE THE DEPUTY CHIEF OF THAT BUREAU.
>> AS WELL. SO UM A VERY VERY SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE EVEN HAVE ACCESS TO THAT CAMERA THAT FOOTAGE AT THIS MOMENT. AND IS IT TRUE THAT THE CAMERA. FOOTAGE IS.
SAVED FOR 30 DAYS AND THEN. DISPOSED OF? NO ABSOLUTELY NOT. THAT ONCE THAT THAT IS SAVED IN A CASE UM. OR ANY CAMERA. FOOTAGE NOT. NOT A. CASE THAT THERE'S A THERE'S A
RETENTION SCHEDULE IN. RULE 405 DEPTH INVESTIGATIONS THAT SAVED INDEFINITELY. AND INDEFINITELY ESPECIALLY UM ,ON A DEATH INVESTIGATION IT'LL GET MOVED INTO. >> A CASE.
SO AND ONCE IT'S PUT IN A CASE UNLESS IT'S MANUALLY DELETED IT WILL BE THERE FOREVER OR UNTIL THE SYSTEM. COULD YOU EXPLAIN HOW IT'S MOVED OUT OF BECAUSE I ASSUME
ALL BODY CAM FOOTAGE IS KIND OF STORED IN A PLACE WHERE LOTS OF PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO KIND. >> OF. LIKE POLICE RECORDS. UM, AND THEN IF IT IS. DEEMED IT SEEMS IN THIS CASE THAT NO ONE REALLY SHOULD BE LOOKING AT IT.
WHERE DOES IT GO? I BELIEVE IT'S LAID. OUT IN RULE. 405 BUT THE THE COMMANDER OF THE VIDEO EVIDENCE UNIT IS TASKED WITH MOVING THAT INTO A
CASE AND THEN SECURING IT ALSO REFERRED TO AS LOCKING DOWN THE VIDEO SO THAT NOBODY ELSE WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO IT. AND IT'S A COPY MADE FOR. >> THE DA'S OFFICE AND THE GRAND JURY. HOW DOES THAT WORK?
UM, THEY ARE SET UP AS A PARTNER AGENCY. UM, AND SO. ONLY WHOEVER GETS ACCESS TO IT
UM, THROUGH THAT WITH THE VIDEO EVIDENCE UNIT WOULD HAVE ACCESS AT THE DA'S OFFICE. I CAN'T SPEAK TO WHO IN THE DA'S OFFICE WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO IT. AND WHO OUR CITY.
COUNCILORS OR OTHER ELECTED OFFICIALS TREATED DIFFERENTLY. WHEN REQUESTS ARE MADE FOR BODY . CAM FOOTAGE OR POLICE EMS FIRST RESPONDER REPORTS. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, NO, NO. WE'RE TREATED JUST LIKE THE
PUBLIC. YES. >> AND WE DO HAVE. THE RULE EVEN THOUGH MANY TIMES THEY'RE NOT ANSWERED TO. USE THE 17 F RULE YOU'VE REFERENCED. DO YOU THINK A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST IS A BETTER OR MORE.
EFFICIENT WAY? WHAT WOULD YOU HOW WOULD YOU COMPARE THE TO LEGALLY? NO I THINK A. 17 F. >> WOULD GET YOU YOUR RECORDS FASTER THAN A. GENERAL PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST . OKAY. I HAVE NO MORE QUESTIONS FOR
YOU BUT THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR MURPHY. COUNCILOR FLYNN, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. AND THANK YOU TO LEGAL COUNCILOR FOR BEING HERE AND FOR BEING, UM, STRAIGHTFORWARD
WITH US AND ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS THE BEST YOU CAN. SO I WANT TO SAY TO SAY THANK YOU. UM, MY MY QUESTION WAS WAS SIMILAR TO WHAT
COUNCIL COUNCILOR MURPHY MENTIONED OR ASKED BUT A CITY COUNCILOR ASKING FOR UM THE VIDEO IS BASICALLY THE SAME AS THE PUBLIC ASKING FOR THE VIDEO.
IS THAT. >> THE VIDEO IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE? YES. >> YEAH. OKAY. I MEAN I RECOGNIZE THAT THE COUNCIL HAS A ROLE TO DO. FOR THIS BUT THAT. THE PEOPLE OF BOSTON AND
OF COURSE ANY TIME WE GET A REQUEST FROM THE CITY COUNCIL WE WANT TO TRY TO FULFILL THAT AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. BUT FOR THIS PARTICULAR VIDEO YOU WOULD STAND IN NO. NO DIFFERENT POSITION.
NOW WITH THE WITH THE POLICY FOR THE BOSTON POLICE FOR RELEASING THE THE BODY BODY WORN UM CAMERA VIDEO UM IS THAT
SUBJECT TO CHANGE OR DO YOU HAVE TO STRICTLY FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES AND YOU CAN'T UM YOU CAN'T MAKE ANY EXCEPTIONS. IT'S A STATUTE SO WE CAN'T
CHANGE WE CAN'T TRUMP WHAT THE STATUTE SAYS SO WE FOLLOW THE STATUTE. WHO WAS IT? HOW LONG WAS THE STATUTE? UM, WHEN WAS THE STATUTE WRITTEN? THAT'S A. >> TOUGH ONE. >> UM, I WANT TO SAY MAYBE THE
1970. POLKA GOES BACK A WELL. OKAY, SO EVEN THOUGH SOME CITY COUNCIL OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS, UH, CLERGY HAVE SEEN THE BODY
CAMERA IT PREVIOUSLY. UM, THAT'S THAT'S NOT THE LAW. UM. >> BODY CAMERA OTHER CASES NOT THIS CASE. YEAH. >> ON. YEAH.
NOT ON THIS CASE. UM, I WOULD SAY THAT. WAS I DON'T KNOW I CAN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION. >> I'M SORRY. THAT'S OKAY. THAT'S OKAY. UM.
THE ONLY REASON I'M ASKING. THAT QUESTION AND AND I DON'T WANT TO I DON'T WANT TO PUT YOU ON THE SPOT. BUT THE ONLY REASON I'M ASKING IT IS IF WE DO HAVE THE POLICY.
UM, DO WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THE POLICY OR CAN WE MAKE, UM, EXCEPTIONS TO THE POLICY DEPENDING ON CASE BY CASE?
THAT'S PUTTING ME ON THE SPOT. UM. AND THEN YOU KNOW SOMETHING ON LEGAL COUNCILOR. I'M FINE IF YOU WANT TO GET BACK TO ME, IF YOU WANT TO GET. BACK TO YOU ON, THAT'S FINE. >> THAT'S FINE. OKAY.
UM. SO WHAT WOULD A 17 HOUR REQUEST AND DO? UM, IF A CITY COUNCIL WANTED TO REQUEST AND I'M NOT REQUESTING
A PART OF A CITY COUNCIL REQUESTED IT, WOULD IT GO TO LEGAL COUNCILOR AT THE BOSTON POLICE OVER. GO TO LEGAL COUNCILOR AT CITY HALL? UM, IT MAKES ITS WAY TO US VERY QUICKLY.
I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY THE MECHANICS OF IT. YOU KNOW, IF IT GETS FILED WITH INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS IT COMES TO US. PRETTY QUICKLY. OKAY. >> IN. UM MISTER CHAIR I'M FINE. THAT'S THAT'S IT FOR ME.
UM. THANK YOU, LEGAL COUNCILOR. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FLYNN. COUNCILOR FITZGERALD, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CHAIR. UM. >> HOW DOES IT IN A HOMICIDE FOR ANY. HOMICIDE TRIAL?
HOW DOES THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW INTERACT WITH THE DISCOVERY IN. CRIMINAL CASE EVIDENCE? UH. >> THE THERE'S RULES OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE THAT DICTATE HOW. UH. >> DISCOVERY IS GOING TO WORK. UH, TO RULE 14, THE RULES
OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE. THERE'S ALSO A RULE 17 FOR RECORDS FROM OUTSIDE AGENCIES. UM, I THINK THAT. THE THE. POLICE ARE. CONSIDERED TO BE PART OF. >> THE PROSECUTION. TEAM, UH, WITH THE DISTRICT
ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. SO WE'RE BOUND BY ANY ORDERS OF THE COURT FOR PRODUCTION OF DISCOVERY. UM, BUT IT'S MANDATED BY THE RULES OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE AND
WHATEVER ORDERS THE JUDGE THAT'S OVERSEEING THAT CASE. UM, ORDERS ON THAT CASE WOULD BE WHAT NEEDS TO BE TURNED OVER WHEN AND HOW?
SO WHO DOES ACTUALLY AND THIS IS AGAIN. THIS IS A MORE GENERAL QUESTION IN ALL CASES WHO DOES ACTUALLY HAVE ACCESS TO A VIDEO AT THIS POINT. THE VIDEO THAT WE'RE THAT WE HAVE FOR TODAY THAT NO.
NOT JUST IN IN ANY WHO WHO. WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO A VIDEO LIKE OR I GUESS MAYBE A DIFFERENT WAY TO PHRASE THAT QUESTION IS TELL ME ABOUT SOME OF THE FACTORS THAT MIGHT GO
INTO DECIDING IF FOOTAGE IS RELEASED OR NOT ON ANY CASE LIKE WHAT ARE THE FACTORS THAT SORT OF TO SAY IF I. >> GET THIS RIGHT IN A NON DEATH AND NON DEATH. INVESTIGATION BECAUSE IF IT'S A DEATH INVESTIGATION IT IS GOING
TO BE RUN THROUGH CHAPTER 38 FOR WITH. >> THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S. OFFICE IN NON DEATH INVESTIGATION IS STILL. ALWAYS A CONSIDERATION THAT ANY TIME. >> THE POLICE ARE CALLED SOMEWHERE. AND THERE'S BODY WORN CAMERA
FOOTAGE IF THAT'S GOING TO. RESULT IN A CRIMINAL CHARGE. AGAINST THE PERSON THEN THE. >> RULES. OF CRIMINAL. >> PROCEDURE AND ANY ORDERS ON THAT CASE AGAINST POTENTIALLY TRUMP. >> THE RELEASE. >> OF THE BODY. CAMERA FOOTAGE.
BUT IF THE DETECTIVE ON THE CASE SAYS NO, THAT RELEASING THAT FOOTAGE WILL NOT AFFECT THE ABILITY TO DO. EFFECTIVE LAW. ENFORCEMENT UM THEN WE WOULD RELEASE THE VIDEO SUBJECT TO
ANY REDACTIONS THAT WE THINK ARE APPROPRIATE. UM, AND IT WOULD GET RELEASED. SO THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A DEATH INVESTIGATION AND NON DEATH INVESTIGATION. AND WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT THE
800 SOME ODD REQUESTS AND YOU RELEASE 500 OF THEM I WOULD ASSUME THEN THAT THAT 500 IS MOSTLY A NON DEATH INVESTIGATION AND THAT'S WHY THEY WERE RELEASED. I WOULD ASSUME. THE UM. AND I MAY BE INFLATING THAT 500
NUMBER. I KNOW I DID. BUT IN GENERAL. THE ONES THAT YOU HAVE RELEASED WIDELY. CERTAINLY I CAN ALMOST GUARANTEE THAT UM WELL. OKAY WE ACTUALLY HAVE RELEASED
ONE OF A DEATH INVESTIGATION. IT WAS ACTUALLY UM. IT WAS. AN ACCIDENT BUT IT WAS A DEATH INVESTIGATION. UM, AND THAT THAT GOT RELEASED. SO UM.
BUT OTHER THAN THAT IT'S GOING TO BE ALWAYS DIRECTED BY THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE ON WHETHER OR NOT ANY EVIDENCE ON THAT. >> CASE CAN BE RELEASED. AND I KNOW MAYBE YOU COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE. YOU SAID YOU HAD SOME
EXPERIENCE BUT IN DEALING WITH THIS TYPE OF INSTANCE MY UNDERSTANDING. >> IS YOU'VE BEEN. >> ON BOTH SIDES OF IT. AND SO WHAT UNIQUE UH PERSPECTIVE DO YOU GET FROM THAT AND UNDERSTANDING THE LAWS YOU HAVE TO ENFORCE? BUT ALSO HAVING BEEN ON THE
OTHER SIDE OF WHERE THE CAMERAS ARE IN PLAY. I DID NOT HAVE THE LUXURY. OF HAVING BODY CAMERA WHEN I WAS DOING THESE TYPES OF CASES AND THE DISTRICT. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE UNDERSTOOD.
UM, IT'S A AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT. TOOL FOR. THE DA'S OFFICE WHEN THEY. REVIEW CASES. LIKE THIS. >> IT'S AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT. TOOL FOR. THE COMMUNITY TO SEE.
WE APPRECIATE THAT WE UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE. OF THAT AND THE IMPORTANCE OF THE PUBLIC BEING ABLE TO SEE WHAT. >> THE. POLICE OFFICERS ARE. DOING OUT THERE. BUT AS I SAID WHEN I WAS DOING THESE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY
HELPFUL TO HAVE BODY WORN. CAMERA FOOTAGE TO HELP MAKE A. DECISION ON. YOU KNOW, WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS A SHOOTING THAT WAS JUSTIFIABLE. >> IN LIGHT. THANK YOU. UH, CHAIR, THAT'S ALL I HAVE FOR QUESTIONS. UH, GENERAL COUNCILOR, THANK
YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME ON THE PANEL. THANK YOU. >> COUNCILOR FITZGERALD. COUNCILOR LOUIJEUNE YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU. UM, THANK YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSE
TO, UH, SOME OF THE QUESTIONS AND PANELING. A GRAND JURY IS, UH, TAKES A IT'S A LARGE EFFORT. UM, IT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE OFTEN HELD IN SECRET, UH, ENSURE THE INTEGRITY OF THE
PROCESS. UH, OFTEN PERMANENTLY HELD IN SECRET. UM, IN EVERY SITUATION IN WHICH WE'RE IN PANELING A GRAND JURY. IS BODY WORN.
CAMERA FOOTAGE WITHHELD. IDEALLY, YES. DO YOU KNOW THAT AS A FACT. I I DON'T. CAN YOU KNOW THAT AS A FACT AND REPORT BACK BECAUSE I.
IN TERMS OF WHAT IS WHERE ARE THE LINES FOR DISCRETION AND WHERE IS A LINE FOR LIKE WHAT IS OUR POLICY AS A DEPARTMENT? UM I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION FOR MEMBERS OF THIS
BODY AND FROM THE PUBLIC TO UNDERSTAND IF IN EVERY SITUATION WHERE IF WE'RE STAYING AND I WAS NEVER A CRIMINAL ATTORNEY MYSELF UM,
BUT IF WE'RE SAYING THAT WE AND I AND I AND I UNDERSTAND THAT GRAND JURY AND UH, TRYING TO GET A GRAND JURY INDICTMENT, THERE ARE A LOT OF PROCEDURES THAT YOU WANT TO FOLLOW FOLLOW
TO ENSURE, UM, AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE THAT THAT IN THE EMPOWERMENT PROCESS THAT POTENTIAL JURORS AREN'T BIAS. YOU WANT TO SORT OF PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. I'M ASSUMING THAT IS ONE OF THE
REASONS THE DECISION IS BEING MADE TO WITHHOLD THE FOOTAGE. WHAT WOULD BE BETTER OFF IF THERE WAS A STATEMENT THAT WE COULD SAY TO THE PUBLIC THAT THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY CAN STATE TO THE PUBLIC THAT THE POLICE
DEPARTMENT AND TO SAY TO THE PUBLIC IN EVERY SITUATION IN WHICH WE'RE TRYING TO UM, PANEL A GRAND JURY GIVEN THE HEIGHTENED CIRCUMSTANCE, WE WILL NEVER OR WE DO NOT. WE HAVE A PRACTICE OF NOT
TURNING OVER BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE. ARE WE ABLE TO SAY THAT? YES. >> THAT, UH. I JUST. WANT TO CLARIFY. THERE'S A GRAND JURY DOESN'T GET IMPANELED FOR A SPECIFIC CASE. RIGHT? >> WE GET.
>> SOME. PERIOD OVER A PERIOD OF TIME OF A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. YES. YEAH. AND SO. I MEAN. IF I MAY IF IF IF WE KNOW THAT A CASE. IS GOING TO BE PRESENTED TO THE
GRAND JURY AND WE GET A PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST ON THAT THAT WILL BE DENIED EVERY SINGLE TIME. AND IT HAS BEEN DENIED EVERY SINGLE TIME. IF WE KNOW WHAT'S GOING INTO A GRAND JURY. ABSOLUTELY.
AND YOU CAN TELL US SO WHEN YOU MENTIONED THAT THERE HAVE BEEN BODY WORN CAMERAS WHERE THERE HAVE BEEN UH, PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST FOR BODY WORN CAMERAS THAT HAVE BEEN DENIED AMONG ALL
OF THE BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE THAT HAS BEEN DENIED EVERY REQUEST THAT HAS COME IN WHERE A GRAND JURY HAS BEEN IMPANELED AS A RESULT OF AN ONGOING INVESTIGATION. UH, FOOTAGE HAS NEVER BEEN RELEASED BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN
AN IMPALEMENT OF A GRAND JURY. IF WE KNOW WHAT'S GOING IN FRONT OF A GRAND JURY, THEN YES. WHETHER IT INVOLVES AN OFFICER INVOLVED DEATH OR NOT, WHATEVER IT MAY INVOLVE. ABSOLUTELY. >> IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO THE POTENTIAL WHO THE DEFENDANT IS
IN THAT CASE POLICE OFFICER. NON-POLICE OFFICER. THE SANCTITY OF THAT INVESTIGATION TRUMPS. EVERYTHING ELSE. AND SO BECAUSE THE SAFETY OF THAT INVESTIGATION TRUMPS EVERYTHING ELSE.
BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE IN THE IN THE TIME PERIOD THAT WE'VE HAD IT IS ALWAYS WITHHELD UNTIL THE UH GRAND JURY HAS EITHER INDICTED OR NOT. NOT INDICTED.
YES. CAN WOULD YOU CAN YOU I MEAN I I UNDERSTAND IF YOU DON'T KNOW WITH CERTAINTY THE ANSWER TO THAT TO THAT QUESTION I WOULD THROUGH THE CHAIR LIKE TO ASK THAT QUESTION BECAUSE I THINK
AT THE END OF THE DAY THAT IS ONE OF THE BIGGER QUESTIONS HERE. THE QUESTION IS ONE OF. I'M A LAWYER. YOU'RE SAYING THAT WE YOU NEED TO TRUST US IN OUR USE OF THE
DISCRETION. HOW DO YOU USE THAT DISCRETION ? LIKE EVEN IN EVEN IN THE USE OF DISCRETION THERE CAN BE GUARDRAILS AND THERE CAN BE RULES ABOUT WHEN THAT DISCRETION IS USED RIGHT. AND SO IF YOU'RE SAYING THAT
THERE IS AT LEAST SOME CONSISTENCY WHEN THERE'S A GRAND JURY THAT'S EMPANELED TO REVIEW A MATTER THAT AT LEAST OFFERS THE PUBLIC SOME SORT OF LIKE OH WELL THEY'RE NOT DISCRIMINATING HERE BECAUSE THEY TRY TO PROTECT ANYONE HERE
. IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE TRYING TO CHANGE SOME POLICY ALTHOUGH THE POLICY OVERALL MAYBE THERE MIGHT BE A LOT OF GOOD THE DISCRETION AT LEAST IN THIS PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE. WE TREAT THESE CASES SIMILARLY. YEAH.
>> SO THE ANSWER IS YES AND THAT'S AN EASY ONE. IF WE KNOW THIS IS GOING IN FRONT OF A GRAND JURY IT'S GOING TO BE NOT DENIED EVERY SINGLE TIME. THE ANSWER TO THAT IS YES. WE'RE IN A DIFFICULT SITUATION
SOMETIMES BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW GRAND JURY PROCEEDINGS ARE SECRET. SO I CAN'T COME OUT AND SAY HEY REQUESTER, THIS IS GOING INTO A GRAND JURY SO I'M NOT GIVING IT TO YOU.
WE HAVE TO USE EXEMPTION F THAT IT WOULD. OH SHOOT I DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME. I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION THOUGH. OKAY. UM, I GUESS I CAN WAIT FOR IT TO SAY, YOU KNOW, FINISH FINISH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. >> NO, WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO SAY THAT SOME THINGS IN THE GRAND
JURY, RIGHT? HAVEN DID US A FAVOR ON THIS ONE BY COMING. >> OUT. AND SAYING. I'M PUTTING. THIS IN A. >> GRAND JURY. AND I DON'T NOTHING IS GOING TO BE RELEASED BEFORE THIS GOES INTO THE GRAND JURY.
SO ONCE HE SAID THAT WE'RE ALLOWED TO SAY ONCE IT'S SAID IN OPEN COURT BY THE D.A. AT AN ARRAIGNMENT, WE'RE ALLOWED TO TALK. >> ABOUT IT. THANK YOU. >> I HAVE A FOLLOW UP QUESTION FOR THAT. AND THEN I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION ABOUT 6.1 UNDER RULE 4
OR 5. BUT I WILL RESPECT THE CLOCK AND WAIT FOR MY SECOND ROUND. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR LOUIJEUNE. COUNCILOR WEBER, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR.
UH, OKAY. UM AND I GUESS SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE GRAND JURY, YOU KNOW, JUST. THE I THINK THERE'S A COUPLE. THINGS THAT I FEEL LIKE ARE
JUST SLIGHTLY, YOU KNOW, OR OUT OF THE NORM HERE WHERE WE HAVE AN ARRAIGNMENT BEFORE THE GRAND JURY, UH, OR SOMEBODY WAS BROUGHT TO COURT. IS THAT CAN YOU. IS THAT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED? IT HAPPENS FREQUENTLY.
QUITE FREQUENTLY. YEAH. >> UM, SO BUT WHERE YOU HAVE THAT ARRAIGNMENT YOU'RE SORT OF YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY GOING TO THE GRAND JURY BECAUSE. YOU CAN'T. >> GO FORWARD WITH THE THE CHARGE WITHOUT THAT. IS THAT HOW THAT WORKS?
UM SOME CHARGES YOU CAN GO FORWARD. UM, IF YOU WANT TO KEEP THEM IN DISTRICT COURT. BUT IF YOU WANT TO BRING IT TO SUPERIOR COURT AGAIN. OKAY. >> AND THE DIFFERENCE IS THE SERIOUSNESS OF THE CHARGE. SO IT'S THE DIFFERENCE REALLY
IS THE PENALTY THAT YOU CAN GET NOT SO MUCH THE CHARGES BUT HAND-IN-HAND WITH THE PENALTY. OKAY. >> UM AND UH I GUESS UM THE THE
OTHER THING IS I HAVE ARE YOU AWARE OF A SITUATION LIKE THIS WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OR ANYONE IS TALKING ABOUT BODY CAM FOOTAGE AND RELEASE OF BODY
CAM FOOTAGE AFTER A POLICE OFFICER HAS BEEN AT IT. IS IT ARRAIGNED AGAIN? I AM A LAWYER BUT NEVER A CRIMINAL LAWYER SO I'M RUSTY ON MY CRIMINAL PROCEDURE. UH. >> I'M NOT.
THIS IS AN ISSUE OF FIRST IMPRESSION TO ME A. >> POLICE OFFICER. BEING CHARGED, UM. WITH THE CRIME OF THIS STATE. YEAH, I MEAN, I DID IT IN MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO. TERRY NICHOLS I THINK, UH, WAS
BEATEN BY POLICE OFFICERS, BEATEN TO DEATH. AND I THINK THE JUDGE ORDERED THAT THE BODY CAM FOOTAGE NOT BE RELEASED AND THEN IT WAS RELEASED AFTER CHARGES BUT EVEN
THERE WASN'T UM, IT WAS A FEDERAL CIVIL RIGHTS, UH, CHARGES. THERE WASN'T A LIKE A MANSLAUGHTER CHARGE. UH, BUT THAT WAS THAT WAS SORT
OF THE CLOSEST I COULD COME. SO DO YOU AGREE THAT THIS IS NOT HOW THIS USUALLY PLAYS OUT? UM, AS FAR AS SOMEBODY BEING CHARGED? YEAH. >> I THINK JUST IN GENERAL THAT
WHEN WE DEBATE WHETHER BODY CAM FOOTAGE NEEDS TO NEEDS TO BE RELEASED IN A SITUATION NOT USUALLY AFTER THE THE CRIMINAL CHARGES HAVE BEEN. >> WE GET BODY WORN CAMERA REQUEST THE DAY AFTER SOMEBODY GETS ARRESTED ALMOST ON A DAILY
BASIS. WE HAVE TO DENY IT BECAUSE IT'S AN INVESTIGATIVE EXEMPTION. YEAH JUST. WHEN YOU SAY SOMEBODY ARRESTS WHO ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT WHEN A POLICE OFFICER IS ARRESTED
FOR THE ACTIONS THAT THEY TOOK WHILE WEARING THE BODY CAM? YEAH. OKAY. BUT WE TREAT THOSE THE SAME AS THIS. WE DO NOT WE DO NOT RELEASE THAT BODY CAMERA BECAUSE THE
INTEGRITY OF THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION HAS TO TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER THAT. OKAY. >> AND THEN, UM, I THINK YOU YOU MENTIONED IT'S CHAPTER FOUR SECTION 726 WHICH HAS THE
EXEMPTIONS TO THE PUBLIC RECORDS UH LAW I THINK IN SECTION EIGHT SAYS PURSUANT TO A STATUTE THAT PROHIBITS IT THERE IS A STATUTE THAT PROHIBITS UH OR UH RELEASE
OF OF UH EVIDENCE OF SEXUAL ASSAULT. UM IS THERE SOME IS THERE A SECTION ON UH YOU KNOW, LIKE A MURDER OR A YOU KNOW, DEATH OR
THAT WOULD RESTRICT IT SPECIFICALLY IN THIS INSTANCE OR ARE YOU THINKING IT RELIES ON SECTION F WHICH IS A DIFFERENT EXEMPTION? I I THINK IT PRIMARILY RELIES. >> ON EXEMPTION F BUT HE ALSO
IS A BY STATUTE OR. IMPLICATION THEREOF IS THAT WE WOULD SAY THAT. CHAPTER 38 SECTION FOUR. IS THE STATUTE THAT SAYS THE DA'S OFFICE. CONTROLS THAT INVESTIGATION. THE DA SAYS IT CAN'T BE
RELEASED. WE WOULD SAY THAT UNDER A. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE. UM OH SORRY. SO THERE IS A IN ONE OF THE STATUTES IS PURSUANT TO THE DISTRICT.
ATTORNEY'S THAT'S INSTRUCTIONS STATUTE GENERAL LOT 38 SECTION FOUR. OKAY. >> UM OKAY. SO THAT'S THAT'S ANOTHER ONE UH I GUESS UM.
A IS THERE A DIFFERENCE FOR FOR I GUESS FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OR THE DA OR HERE BETWEEN AN INVESTIGATION AND A PROSECUTION DO WHEN WE READ
INVESTIGATION IN THE RULES, DOES THAT INCLUDE A CRIMINAL PROSECUTION? I DON'T READ THOSE AS BEING THE SAME AND I THINK THERE'S IMPORTANT DISTINCTION. BUT, UH, ARE THESE THE WAY THESE RULES ARE DRAWN UP?
IS THERE A LINE? I DON'T THINK. >> THEY'RE THE SAME. AND DO THEY OVERLAP A LITTLE BIT? ABSOLUTELY. BUT THEY'RE NOT I WOULD. NOT YEAH I MEAN I IF THERE IS A PROSECUTION OR IF THERE'S AN
INDICTMENT OR YOU KNOW EVEN IF THERE'S NOT AN INDICTMENT WHAT WHAT WOULD THE POLICE COMMISSIONER'S ACTIONS BEINGS ARE GOING TO BE AN INVESTIGATION IF THERE IS A CRIMINAL TRIAL. WELL IF THE.
IF THERE'S NO INVESTIGATION IF THERE'S NO PROSECUTION THEN THAT'S ONLY TAKES THE DA'S OFFICE AND THE DUE PROCESS CONCERNS. >> OUT OF IT. AND IT WOULD COME BACK NOW.
TO YOU KNOW, FOR INSTANCE IF YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT KIMBLE, I SAY. HE'S TALKING ABOUT UM, WITNESSES IDENTIFICATION OF WITNESSES. UM, THOSE. >> WOULD. BE BECAUSE. >> WE WANT. >> PEOPLE.
TO COME FORWARD. WE WANT PEOPLE TO ASSIST WITH WONDERFUL EXPERIENCE. SO THEY'D STILL BE IN ONGOING THE EXEMPTION FOR THAT. BUT FOR THE BODY CAMERA IN GENERAL.
IT ONCE HAS BEEN DETERMINED THAT THERE IS NO CRIMINAL PROSECUTION THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ONCE ANY INTERNAL INVESTIGATION. >> WAS COMPLETED. THEN THAT BODY CAMERA WOULD CERTAINLY.
BE RELEASED SUBJECT TO ANY REDACTIONS. YES I UH OKAY. I THINK THAT ANSWERS MY QUESTION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR WEBER. UM, COUNCILMEMBER PAN, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR.
THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. UM THANK YOU, COUNCIL. FOR BEING HERE. I'M HERE HONESTLY TO LEARN A LOT ABOUT THE PROCESS AND. ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT. >> I HAD A LOT OF MY COLLEAGUES HAVE ASKED. UM, SO RESPECTFULLY, MR CHAIR, I WANTED TO YIELD THE REST
OF MY TIME TO YOU SO THAT WE CAN CONTINUE WITH. >> THE CONVERSATION. THANK YOU. COUNCILOR BENTON. UM, I'M NOT GOING TO GO TO. UH, SECOND ROUND OF QUESTIONS. I ALSO JUST WANT TO BE MINDFUL. I DON'T WANT TO CLOSE A PATH.
I HAD TO STEP OUT. UM, IN THE TIME THAT SHE DOES RETURN, I WILL GO BACK TO HER FOR HER QUESTION TO FIRST ORDER ON THIS PANEL BUT UM, WE WILL NOW GO BACK TO THE LEAD SPONSOR COUNSELOR WHOLE PEPPER.
UM, I WILL PUT FIVE MINUTES ON THE ON THE CLOCK. YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. UH, COUNCIL, YOU TALKED ABOUT
ONE CASE WHERE BODY CAM. WAS RELEASED. DURING A DEATH. INVESTIGATION AND YOU DIDN'T
KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THAT GRAND JURY WAS GOING TO BE IMPANELED, DID YOU? I THINK WE DID. I THINK IT WAS DETERMINED THAT NO CHARGES WERE GOING TO ISSUE. IT WAS A IT WAS A BASIC THERE WAS A. BUT THERE WAS ONE.
CASE WHERE YOU KNOW OF THAT THE BODY CAM WAS RELEASED ON A DEATH INVESTIGATION. IT WAS. IT WASN'T BODY CAM IT WAS ACTUALLY STREET CAM. IT WASN'T BODY CAM. I APOLOGIZE. BUT IT WAS RELEASED ON A DEATH
INVESTIGATION. THERE WAS NO INVESTIGATION ANY . RIGHT. AND YOU WORK WITH THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. WHEN DISTRICT COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY DAN COUNTY RELEASED
BODY CAM FOOTAGE DOING AN INVESTIGATION TO. SPECIFIC COMMUNITY MEMBERS, WEREN'T YOU? I WAS YES. AND.
YOU ALSO AGREED UNDER 38 FOR THAT. THERE'S A PROVISION THAT GIVES THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY. OVERSIGHT OVER. >> DEATH INVESTIGATIONS. WE AGREED TO THAT RIGHT.
AND THEN IT SAYS AND IN COOPERATION WITH THE. BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT. CORRECT. >> WITH HIS LAW ENFORCEMENT DESIGNEE. RIGHT. >> OR HIS OR BUT IT. DOESN'T SAY THAT THE.
DISTRICT ATTORNEY HAS THE. AUTHORITY TO DIRECT. THE BOSTON. POLICE, HE SAYS AND. >> IN COOPERATION WITH AM I CORRECT? IT. >> IN. COOPERATION WITH YES. RIGHT. AND SO AND IN COOPERATION WITH
DOESN'T. GIVE HIM THE AUTHORITY. >> TO DIRECT. THE BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER . AM I CORRECT? IF YOU SAY IN COOPERATION. >> WITH. RIGHT IF I SAY COUNCIL LET'S
COOPERATE. TO WALK DOWN THE STREET. RIGHT. >> AND YOU SAY COUNCIL. I DON'T WANT TO WALK DOWN THE STREET. WITH YOU. >> RIGHT. I DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO THEN. DIRECT YOU TO WALK DOWN THE STREET, DO I?
IF WE'RE DOING IT IN COOPERATION. A THAT ONE'S LAST TIME. WELL, LET ME. >> BACK UP. LET ME. IT DOESN'T SAY THAT THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY HAS THE AUTHORITY TO DIRECT A POLICE
COMMISSIONER, DOES IT? I INTERPRET THAT. NO NO. >> NO IT DOESN'T. NO. >> COUNCIL. >> THE QUESTION IS THE LAW DOES NOT SAY. THAT THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY HAS THE AUTHORITY TO DIRECT THE
POLICE COMMISSIONER, DOES IT? IT DOES NOT SAY THOSE WORDS. AND IT SAID IN COOPERATION. WITH. RIGHT. AM I RIGHT? CAN I PULL IT UP? I'LL READ. >> IT. TO YOU. >> I'VE GOT IT RIGHT HERE.
YOU WANT TO READ. >> IT TO ME? YOU WANT ME TO READ IT TO YOU? I MEAN, I'VE SEEN THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY ARE HIS LAW ENFORCEMENT REPRESENTATIVE SHALL DIRECT AND CONTROL THE INVESTIGATION. WE AGREE ON. THAT, RIGHT? >> YES. KEEP ON. DON'T STOP THERE. KEEP READING. AND THEN.
>> WITH THE OFFICE OF THE CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WITHIN WHOSE JURISDICTION. YOU SKIPPED THE COOPERATION PART. >> OF. I I HAVE THE MEDICAL EXAMINER SHALL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING
ARRANGEMENTS. FOR TRANSPORT OF THE BODY. THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY OR HIS LAW ENFORCEMENT REPRESENTATIVE SHALL DIRECT AND CONTROL THE INVESTIGATION OF THE DEATH AND SHALL COORDINATE THE
INVESTIGATION WITH THE OFFICE OF THE CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER AND THE POLICE. AND AND THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND COORDINATE. NOW HERE'S MY QUESTION. UH, COUNCILOR, WITH.
REGARD TO THE THE. STATUTE YOU INTERPRETED THAT THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY HAS. TO HAS AUTHORITY OVER THE IN DEATH. INVESTIGATION, RIGHT? THAT'S YOUR INTERPRETATION.
YES, SIR. AND I. INTERPRET IT THAT. HE DOESN'T HAVE. THE AUTHORITY TO. >> DIRECT THE POLICE COMMISSIONER. ISN'T THAT CORRECT? YES. >> AND SO LIKE MINDS CAN HAVE
DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS ON THE LAW. ISN'T THAT CORRECT? UM, YES. AND THAT'S WHAT COURTS ARE. FOR TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT WHICH ATTORNEY IS CORRECT.
THAT'S WHAT THAT'S WHAT COURTS ARE FOR. SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT. UH THE RESTRICTION AND 38. FOR THERE'S NO RESTRICTION IN
THE LAW THAT RESTRICTS THE COMMISSIONER FROM RELEASING THE. BODY CAM FOOTAGE. THAT'S NOT HOW I DO IT. >> THAT'S RIGHT. BUT BUT BUT AND THE 34 COUNCIL LET ME MOVE TO
SOMETHING ELSE REAL QUICK. SO THE OFFICER HAS THE RIGHT TO REVIEW THE BODY. CAM FOOTAGE. UNDER CERTAIN SITUATIONS. AFTER A POLICE INVOLVED SHOOTING.
NOT AN IN-DEPTH INVESTIGATION. IN AN IN DEPTH. WELL, LET ME JUST CAN I READ THIS TO YOU SO WE CAN SEE IF WE CAN AGREE ON THIS? WHAT ARE WE READING? I'M READING FROM 4 OR 5.
YOU'VE BEEN QUOTING IT ALL AFTERNOON. SO LET ME JUST READ THIS. TWO MINUTES OR I. >> JUST I PREFER TO. >> IT. OFFICER ACCESS TO THIS. SECTION THAT YOU READING. FROM 6 TO 6.2.
OKAY. >> OFFICER ACCESS TO FOOTAGE FOLLOWING AN OFFICER INVOLVED DEATH. OFFICER INVOLVED SHOOTING OR THE USE OF DEADLY FORCE. YOU WITH ME? YES. >> LET'S GO DOWN TO THE THIRD
PARAGRAPH AT A TIME DETERMINED BY THE SUPERVISOR IN CHARGE OF THE INVESTIGATION OFFICERS WHO WERE INVOLVED IN THE INCIDENT. YOU'RE WITH ME.
DISCHARGE THEIR WEAPON AND OR WITNESS INCIDENT MAY VIEW THEIR OWN VIDEO BEFORE GIVING A STATEMENT. IS THAT CORRECT? YES. SO THE OFFICER CAN GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE FOOTAGE IF HE MAKES
A REQUEST. ISN'T THAT CORRECT? NOT AN IN-DEPTH INVESTIGATION? >> NO, BUT THAT'S WHAT THIS SAYS THOUGH THIS IS AT A TIME DETERMINED BY THE SUPERVISOR IN CHARGE OF THE OFFICERS WHO
INVOLVED IN THE INCIDENT DISCHARGING A WEAPON AND OR WITNESS INCIDENT IN THIS CASE HE DISCHARGED HIS WEAPON, DIDN'T HE? BECAUSE IT SAYS ACCESS TO
FOOTAGE FOUND AN OFFICER INVOLVED DEATH OFFICER INVOLVED SHOOTING. RIGHT AT THAT. >> I MEAN, I'M LOOKING RIGHT AT IT. WE'RE LOOKING AT THE SAME THING, RIGHT? 4562. RIGHT, COUNCILOR. I'M LOOKING AT. >> FOUR OR 5. >> OR 6. OKAY.
>> AND GO DOWN TO THE THIRD PARAGRAPH. WHERE YOU GET TO READ THE FIRST PARAGRAPH. WE TALKING ABOUT THREE DIFFERENT SCENARIOS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. COUNCILOR I'M THE ONE ASKING ME QUESTIONS TODAY RIGHT. I'M NOT GOING TO ABOUT THREE DIFFERENT SINCE MY.
TIME IS UP. LET ME JUST LET LET ME JUST FINISH THIS QUESTION COUNCILOR. KIND OF REMEMBER COUNCILOR. I'M A LOT MORE COMFORTABLE. >> AT THE OFFICER'S REQUEST. THE OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY.
MAY BE PRESENT WHEN THE OFFICER VIEWS THE VIDEO. AND SO THE OFFICER HAS THE RIGHT TO REVIEW BODY CAM FOOTAGE WHERE HE WAS INVOLVED IN A SHOOTING.
RIGHT? >> ACCORDING TO 6245. RIGHT. >> NOT FOR A DEATH INVESTIGATION. BUT BUT THIS COUNCIL READ SIX TWO. . >> THAT'S. WHAT IS IT SITTING OUT COUNCILOR? YOU KNOW I WANT. >> TO.
READ SIX TO COUNCIL. WHAT DOES IT SAY? OFFICER? >> ACCESS TO FOOTAGE FOLLOWING AN OFFICER INVOLVED DEATH COMMA OFFICER INVOLVED SHOOTING. RIGHT. >> AND SO. >> THE USE OF DEADLY RIGHT. SO WE WERE AND THIS IS MY LAST
QUESTION. WE'RE AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN OFFICER INVOLVED SHOOTING. RIGHT WHERE THERE'S A DEATH. YES RIGHT. WE ARE. >> THERE WAS A DEATH IN THIS CASE RIGHT. CORRECT. RIGHT.
>> AND IT SAYS THAT THE OFFICER CAN THEN GO BACK AND. REVIEW HIS BODY CAM FOOTAGE. RIGHT. >> THAT IS NOT THE POLICY. BUT BUT. >> THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS THOUGH. I'M JUST CAN'T. SO YOU GOT TO AGREE WITH. >> ME THAT.
THAT'S UNDER FOUR FIVE. I'M NOT MAKING THIS UP. SO UNDER. 4 OR. >> 5. IF IT'S NOT A DEATH IF IT'S AN OFFICER INVOLVED SHOOTING OR OTHER USE OF DEADLY FORCE WHERE THERE'S NO DEATH. BUT YOU JUST SAID. >> GO. BACK AND. >> LOOK AT THEIR. FOOTAGE JUST LIKE THEY CAN IF
THEY'RE WRITING A POLICE REPORT. I CAN'T. >> TELL ON ANYTHING ELSE. OKAY. >> THAT WASN'T MY QUESTION. HERE'S MY QUESTION. BUT IT'S IT ALSO ALLOWS HIS ATTORNEY TO BE PRESENT WHEN THE
OFFICER VIEWS THE VIDEO. ISN'T THAT WHAT IT SAYS? ABSOLUTELY. >> AND SO THERE IS INSTANCES WHERE OTHERS GET A CHANCE TO SEE THE BODY CAM. FOOTAGE THAT DIDN'T MAKE THE
REQUEST. I MISSED THAT I'M SORRY IF THERE. PURSUANT TO 40562 THERE ARE INSTANCES WHERE AN OFFICER
MAKES A REQUEST TO SEE THE VIDEO. HE'S ALLOWED TO SEE THE VIDEO. RIGHT. >> AND HIS ATTORNEY CAN SEE THE VIDEO WITH HIM. IN A NON DEATH INVESTIGATION.
YES, SIR. COUNCILOR I THANK YOU. YOU'RE WELCOME. THANK YOU COUNCILOR CULPEPER. UM. >> COUNCILOR MURPHY. YEAH. UM, WE HAVE THE FOURTH. THANK YOU.
>> WHERE THE, UM, ARE THE POLICE REPORTS? UM, EMS OR THEY'RE ALSO I WOULD ASSUME DID THEY SHOW UP ON SCENE OF THOSE REPORTS?
UM, SHARED PUBLIC OR ARE THOSE ALSO LIKE THE BODY CAM FOOTAGE NOT BEING SHARED? THOSE WOULD NOT. IF IF THEY'RE IN OUR CUSTODY AND. CONTROL AT THIS.
JUNCTURE WE WOULD. >> NOT SHARE THOSE. UH, BUT. FOR THE SAME REASONS YOU'RE NOT SHARING THE VIDEO. YES. >> OKAY. OKAY. >> AND THAT WOULD BE THE ONLY REASON WHY. BECAUSE IF SOMEONE REQUESTS A POLICE REPORT.
IF YOU. WOULD IF IT WERE GOING TO BE IF IT WERE NOT GOING TO BE TURNED OVER IT WOULD BE FOR THE SAME REASONS AS WHY THE BODY WORN. CAMERAS BUT. IT WOULD BE THE SAME. OH THAT WAS IT. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU, COUNCILOR MURPHY. UM, COUNCIL JOHN, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR SANTANA. UM, SO IN SECTION 6.2 IT STATES
THAT FOLLOWING OFFICER-INVOLVED DEATH, OFFICER-INVOLVED SHOOTING OR OTHER USE OF DEADLY FORCE OFFICERS AND SUPERVISORS AT THE SCENE SHALL NOT VIEW ANY VIDEO BEFORE THE HOMICIDE UNIT OR FIRE ON DISCHARGE
INVESTIGATION TEAM VIEWS THE FOOTAGE SO IT DOESN'T SAY OUTRIGHT THAT IN AN OFFICER UM IN AN OFFICER-INVOLVED DEATH OR OFFICER-INVOLVED SHOOTING THAT THE OFFICER DOES NOT GET TO
REVIEW THE FOOTAGE. IS THAT CORRECT? UNDER 6.2. UNDER 6.1 IT CLEARLY STATES THAT THE SITUATIONS UNDER WHICH AN OFFICER HAS ACCESS TO THE
FOOTAGE 6.2 AND I THINK THE LANGUAGE IN 6.1 MAKES IT CLEAR THAT THERE ARE FURTHER RESTRICTIONS ON ACCESS TO FOOTAGE IF IT IS AN OFFICER INVOLVED SHOOTING.
THAT'S PURSUANT TO 6.2, BUT 6.2 DOESN'T STATE ALTOGETHER THAT THERE IS A BAN WHEN THERE'S AN OFFICER INVOLVED DEATH OR A SHOOTING ON THE OFFICER REVIEWING THAT FOOTAGE. AND I THINK IT'S FURTHER
CLARIFIED UNDER RULE 405 UH, WHERE IT SAYS UH IT SAYS THAT UM AT A TIME WAS DETERMINED BY THE SUPERVISOR IN CHARGE OF THE INVESTIGATION OFFICERS WHO WERE INVOLVED IN THE INCIDENT DISCHARGE THEIR WEAPON. UM. >> UH, THE OFFICER AT HIS
REQUEST AND WITH THE ATTORNEY PRESENT CAN REVIEW THE VIDEO SO THAT THAT IS ALL CORRECT. THAT IS ALL CORRECT FOR A NON DEATH INVESTIGATION. YES. >> AND AND SO THEN WHAT IS THE PROCESS AND A DEATH
INVESTIGATION PURSUANT TO 6.2. THE DEATH INVESTIGATION. IF THE OFFICER IS GOING TO BE INTERVIEWED. UH THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO SEE. THEIR VIDEO.
BEFORE THEY REACHED. IN THIS IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCE IN THE UH TRAGIC AND FATAL INCIDENT THAT IS SPREAD THIS MOMENT. WAS THE OFFICER ABLE TO REVIEW THE FOOTAGE BEFORE GIVING A
STATEMENT OR A REPORT? BEFORE THEY WERE INTERVIEWED BY. I WASN'T THERE BUT I COULD ALMOST GET I CAN GUARANTEE THAT THEY DID NOT WATCH THE. VIDEO THAT THEY DID NOT WATCH
THE VIDEO THAT OKAY. UM I TAKE IT TO MEAN WHEN I LOOK AT 6.1 WHEN I LOOK AT 6.2 WHEN I LOOK AT RULE FOUR FIVE THAT IT'S NOT AGAIN NOT AN ALL TOGETHER BAN AS TO WHETHER THE
OFFICER CAN REVIEW THAT FOOTAGE BUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER WHICH YOU CAN ACTUALLY REVIEW THE OFFICER CAN REVIEW THE FOOTAGE ARE A LOT MORE ARE MORE RESTRICTED. UM THAN THEY ARE IN THE 6.1 WHICH GIVES THEM SORT OF MORE
LIBERTIES TO BE ABLE TO REVIEW FOOTAGE THAT THEY'RE INVOLVED IN. AND IF YOU WHEN YOU REFER. >> BACK TO RULE 3.3 WHICH LAYS OUT. HOW THE FITTING THE ROLE OF. THE FITTED TEAM AND AN OFFICER INVOLVED SHOOTING.
AND AGAIN I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S OFFICER-INVOLVED SHOOTING. THERE'S A PROTOCOL THAT WE FOLLOW ONCE THERE'S A DEATH INVOLVED AND NOW GOES OVER INTO THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S.
SILO AND THEY'RE CORRECT IN THAT INVESTIGATION. I THINK I HAVE A LARGER PROBLEM WITH THIS ISSUE BECAUSE I THINK A LOT OF THE REASONS WHY BODY WORN CAMERA UM, THE ADVOCACY AROUND IT ESPECIALLY FROM THE
PUBLIC WAS BECAUSE THERE ARE ALWAYS OFTEN THESE SITUATIONS WHERE POLICE REPORTS AREN'T BEING CORROBORATED BY WHAT IS HAPPENING IN BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE.
SO WHY DEVELOP A POLICY THAT ALLOWS UM AN OFFICER TO REVIEW FOOTAGE TO CORROBORATE TO LIKE CORRECT THE RECORD IN A SENSE WHICH I THINK GOES AGAINST THE GRAIN OF THE IDEA
OF TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY. UM, AND THE VERY REASON WHY YOU HAVE BODY WORN CAMERAS WHEN YOU YOU KNOW SO MY MY ISSUE IS ACTUALLY WITH THE OVERALL POLICY THAT ALLOWS FOR REVIEW
WHAT WHAT WHAT IS BEHIND THAT WHAT WHAT WHO DOES THAT BENEFIT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S TO THE PUBLIC'S BENEFIT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IMPACT. I AGREE. THOSE ARE MY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU COUNCILOR LOUIJEUNE COUNCILOR. >> WEBER YOU. >> HAVE THE FLOOR. YEAH I JUST I I AGREE WITH COUNCILOR LOUIJEUNE ABOUT THE CONCERNS ABOUT THIS WHERE WE ALLOW THE PERSON INVOLVED IN THE INCIDENT TO REVIEW THE
VIDEO BEFORE THEY MAKE THE STATEMENT. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE JUST NOT TO, YOU KNOW, SO YOU'RE NOT SURE WHAT THE POLICY REASONS ARE FOR FOR DOING THAT. THAT TO HEAR THAT RIGHT.
I'M NOT OKAY. I MEAN IT. DOESN'T UH IT IS SOMEBODY WHO WAS INVOLVED IN THE INCIDENT BUT UM I MEAN I THINK WE'D WANT TO GET THEIR RECOLLECTIONS DOWN
AND THEIR REASONING BEFORE THEY COULD SIT DOWN AND THEY HAVE AN ATTORNEY WHEN THEY'RE VIEWING THE FOOTAGE BEFORE THEY ISSUE A STATEMENT IN A DEATH. INCIDENT, NOT A. NON DEATH. SO DO NOT VIEW IT.
>> AND A. OKAY SO OKAY SO IN A DEATH INVESTIGATION THEY'RE INTERVIEWED BY THE HOMICIDE UNIT BUT I BEFORE THEY UH
BEFORE THEY THEY'RE BEFORE THEY'VE SEEN THE FOOTAGE. CORRECT. >> OKAY. UM AND THEN AT SOME POINT TO THE ISSUE A STATEMENT AFTER THAT INTERVIEW UM, OR DOES THAT CREATE THEIR STATEMENT. USUALLY CREATES THIS STATEMENT.
THAT MEAN THAT'S THE. >> THAT'S THEIR INTERVIEW. UM, OKAY. UH. AND I MEAN I GUESS JUST GENERALLY DO YOU THINK ARE THE
RULES WE HAVE AND THE PROCEDURES IN PLACE WHETHER IT'S IN THE UH, POLICE DEPARTMENT RULES OR IN THE STATE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW ACCOUNTS FOR A SITUATION LIKE
THIS WHERE WE AGAIN ARE TALKING ABOUT BODY CAM FOOTAGE AFTER, UH, POLICE OFFICERS INVOLVED IN IT IN A DEATH, UH, HAS BEEN
CHARGED BY THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY. UM, I. THINK THAT. THE SYSTEM WE HAVE UNDER THE. LAWS THAT IS YOUR FIRST
QUESTION WHETHER IT'S BE. PRACTICE LAW. RULES OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE AND PROCESS RIGHTS INVOLVED IN A CRIMINAL CASE. THE QUESTION. OKAY. OKAY. >> THANK YOU.
I DON'T WANT TO TAKE ANY TIME TO SEE COUNSELOR CULPEPPER. I THINK HIS FOLLOW. >> UP FOR COUNSELOR. OKAY. >> THANK YOU, COUNCILOR WEBER. WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO COUNCILOR ARROYO. YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. UH. >> THANK YOU. CHAIR. UM. YOU SAID.
THAT AND. ACTIVE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS . UM, BPD WILL NOT RELEASE. UH, BODY. CAM FOOTAGE. UM, WHEN IT'S. AN OFFICER INVOLVED SHOOTING THAT RESULTED. >> IN A DEATH. UM, BUT IN THE PAST.
>> BUT MY. UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE COMMISSIONER HAS BROUGHT IN, UH, MEMBERS, YOU KNOW, RESIDENTS, LEADERS, ELECTED OFFICIALS INTO, YOU KNOW,
HEADQUARTERS TO. REVIEW UM. FOOTAGE WAS WAS THIS IN VIOLATION OF THE LAW OR IS DISCRETION NOW BEING APPLIED DIFFERENTLY?
NO NO NO CRIMINAL CHARGES ISSUED IN. THOSE CASES. SO IT'S ACTIVE INVESTIGATION OR CRIMINAL CHARGES. WELL THOUGHT I. HEARD ACTIVE INVESTIGATION. OKAY. >> I MEAN.
IF CRIMINAL IF CRIMINAL. CHARGES ISSUE OR IF IS GOING INTO A GRAND JURY ALL OF THAT STUFF. THAT WHAT THE DA'S OFFICE SAYS IF IT'S A DEATH INVESTIGATION THAT'S GOING TO CONTROL RIGHT.
>> IF IT. IF IT'S. EVEN NONE OF THOSE BRIEFINGS IN THE PAST BECAUSE I GUESS WHAT I'M HEARING FROM MY COLLEAGUE IS THERE WERE ACTIVE CRIMINAL
INVESTIGATIONS AND A DEATH WAS INVOLVED IN THE VIEWING OF THAT PAST. I WOULD BE SHOCKED IF ANY POLICE OFFICER WAS CHARGED IN ANY OF. THOSE SHOOTINGS. OKAY SO SO THE THE BARRIERS TO
POLICE OFFICER BEING CHARGED. IN THIS CASE THAT'S THAT'S. ONE OF. >> THE VERY YEAH THAT IS THE. VARIANCE IN THIS CASE. OKAY. UM AND WHEN YOU SAY RELEASING THE FOOTAGE WOULD HARM THE
INTEGRITY OF THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. UH WHAT SPECIFIC LAW OR EXEMPTION ARE YOU RELYING ON AND WHAT CONCRETE HARM DO YOU BELIEVE WITH RESULT FROM THE
RELEASE OF ANY BODY WORN. UH. >> WORN FOOTAGE? I I'M NOT PART OF THE INVESTIGATION I. >> CAN'T. SPECULATE ON WHAT. PART OF THE INVESTIGATION WOULD. HARM IF IT. >> WERE. RELEASED AT THIS MOMENT. OKAY. >> BECAUSE THAT WAS LIKE A TERM
THAT YOU KEPT ON YOUTUBE WAS THE THE INTEGRITY OF THE CASE. EXEMPTION IF I DON'T HAVE IT RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME OF THE PUBLIC THE EXEMPTION F TALKS ABOUT EFFECTIVE LAW ENFORCEMENT
A LOT OF TIMES THE TERM INTEGRITY OF THE. INVESTIGATION IF IT AFFECTS THE ABILITY. FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT TO DO THEIR JOB. WE WILL USE. EXEMPTION F TO DENY A PUBLIC
RECORDS REQUEST. UH, IN THIS CASE. WE HAVE F WE HAVE A WE HAVE A D.A. WHO CAME OUT THAT D.A. CAME OUT ON TV AND SAID I'M PUTTING THIS IN TO THE GRAND JURY.
GRAND JURY OPENS UP A WHOLE NEW SET OF LAWS THE SECRECY OF THE GRAND JURY. WHAT ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO KNOW AND NOT KNOW? BUT THE FACT THAT HE'S SAYING HE DOES NOT WANT THIS RELEASED
. THEY ARE RUNNING THIS INVESTIGATION. THEY ARE PUTTING IT INTO THE GRAND JURY. WE WE WILL HAVE. INDIVIDUALS FROM BPD WILL PROBABLY TESTIFY IN THE GRAND
JURY AS WELL. BUT THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE CONTROLS THAT. THAT'S THE GRAND JURY FOR THE SUFFOLK COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. IT'S NOT THE BPD GRAND JURY. SO.
>> BY NEWS PICKED NEWSPAPER REPORTS AND WHAT'S BEEN ON THE NEWS LIKE THERE'S BEEN AN END IN SOMETIMES IN ANY CASE IT COULD BE EYEWITNESSES. RIGHT? UM. FOR WHAT I'M SORRY. FOR FOR THIS A, UH, CRIMINAL
CASE IT COULD BE SOMEONE WHO SAW, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE SAW THIS INCIDENT HAPPEN. RIGHT. SO WHAT WHAT WOULD BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THAT
INDIVIDUAL SPEAKING PUBLICLY AND BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE BEING RELEASED THAT WOULD HAVE LIKE THE DIFFERENT IMPACTS. LIKE WHAT WHAT WOULD STOP THE
EYE WITNESS FROM PUBLICLY SPEAKING VERSUS THE BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE BEING RELEASED, WHICH IS. THAT THAT. WITNESS IS NOT IN OUR CUSTODY AND. CONTROL AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE PUBLIC. RECORDS LAW. >> SO IT WOULDN'T WITH THAT
EYEWITNESS PUBLICLY SPEAKING, YOU KNOW, UH, I GUESS THE EXEMPTION F THAT YOU. REFER TO. WITH THAT. PUBLIC EYE WITNESS BE IN VIOLATION OF THAT.
NO, THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW WILL ONLY APPLIES TO PUBLIC AGENCIES THAT WITNESS OKAY SO A PUBLIC AGENCY PUT IT AFFECT THE INVESTIGATION. MAYBE BUT WE. CAN'T CONTROL THAT. CAN'T CONTROL IT RIGHT. WE CAN ONLY CONTROL WHAT WE HAVE IN OUR CUSTODY AND.
CONTROL RIGHT. SO THERE THERE ARE INCIDENCES WHERE YOU. KNOW. >> I GUESS THE FOOTAGE OR THE EYE WITNESS OR EVEN LIKE A RING CAMERA THERE'S NOTHING THAT WOULD STOP THE RING CAMERAS
FROM, YOU KNOW, IMPACT WELL BEING PUBLICLY SHARED. YOU'RE CORRECT AGAIN. IF THE PERSON WHO HAS THE RING CAMERA WANTS TO PUT THAT OUT ON THE INTERNET, THEY ARE NOT
SUBJECT TO THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW. AND THAT WOULD NOT HARM THE INVESTIGATION. IT POTENTIALLY MIGHT. BUT YOU CAN'T FORCE PEOPLE NOT TO PUT STUFF UP. RIGHT AND KEEP LIKE HOW WOULD IT HARM THE INVESTIGATION?
I DON'T KNOW I DOUBT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE WHATEVER THE SCENARIO IS BUT I WOULD IF THERE IS SOMEBODY THAT HAS EVIDENCE LIKE THAT HE INVESTIGATORS ON THE CASE THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
MIGHT TALK TO THEM AND SAY LOOK CAN WE GET A COPY OF THAT? COULD YOU. >> PLEASE DON'T RELEASE THIS? YOU COULD ASK THEM. BUT YOU. >> CAN'T FORCE THEM TO RELEASE IT. OKAY. >> ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. OH, AND I JUST WANTED TO JUST ADD THIS LAST POINT. UM.
>> EARLIER THIS MONTH IN HARTFORD, CONNECTICUT, UH, THERE WAS A POLICE SHOOTING, UH, WITHIN JUST ONE WEEK, UH, CONNECTICUT OFFICER INSPECTOR GENERAL RELEASED UH, NOT ONLY
REPORT BUT THE BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE OF THAT INCIDENT. AND WHILE THAT OFFICER HAS SINCE BEEN FIRED, THAT MATTER IS STILL UNDER INVESTIGATION. UM, BUT THE FOOTAGE BODY WORN
CAMERA FOOTAGE, I BELIEVE OF MULTIPLE OFFICERS WAS, UH, STILL MADE PUBLIC. SO THEN MY QUESTION IS THIS HOW IS THIS CASE DIFFERENT? UM. >> HERE IN BOSTON. UH. >> FROM THAT CASE AND I KNOW YOU PROBABLY DON'T HAVE ALL THE
DETAILS UM, IN ANY DIFFERENT WAY. AND IF IT'S NOT. YEAH. I'M SORRY. >> NONE OF THE DETAILS OF THAT CASE. SO YOU KNOW. NO, I. >> DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE THE STATUES. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE. I DON'T KNOW. >> WHO RELEASED IT. UM, I DON'T. >> KNOW. IF.
CONNECTICUT HAS A. STATUTE THAT'S ANALOGOUS TO 38 SECTION FOUR. THANK YOU. >> OKAY. >> THANK YOU COUNCILOR. WELL, UM, BEFORE WE DISMISS, YOU KNOW, TO ONE FINAL UM, FROM
THE LEAD SPONSOR OF ONE FINAL QUESTION. JUST ONE QUESTION. COUNCILOR WITH REGARD TO THE INTEGRITY OF THE. INVESTIGATION OR A GRAND JURY OR A JURY, THE VOIR DIRE WOULD
ACTUALLY. REMEDY ANY ISSUES. THAT MAY HAPPEN WITH REGARD TO A WITNESS SEEING OR HEARING ABOUT. UH, POLICE OFFICER. INVOLVED SHOOTING.
>> THE. VOLUNTEER HANDLE THAT WHEN THEY GO TO TRIAL. RIGHT. >> AS FAR AS PRETRIAL PUBLICITY THAT CAN. BE POTENTIALLY HANDLED. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
COUNCILOR CULPEPER. UM, AND THANK YOU AGAIN TO DAVE FREDERICK. I WAS GENERAL COUNCILOR FOR THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR COMING DOWN, UM, TESTIFYING AND ANSWERING OUR QUESTIONS. UH, WE WILL NOW DISMISS YOU
FROM THIS PANEL. UM. THANK YOU. >> YOU MAY YOU MAY SAY. THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, THANK YOU. RIGHT. I LOOK FORWARD TO. TALKING TO YOU MORE ANYTIME. I WOULD NOW LIKE TO CALL ON THE SECOND PANEL, UM, TO COME WITH
US TODAY. UM, WITH US TODAY WE HAVE EVANDRO CARVALHO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY. UM, WE WILL HEAR HIS, UM,
OPENING REMARKS AND THEN WE WILL TURN IT OVER TO, UM MY
COLLEAGUES FOR FOR QUESTIONS.
THANK YOU. UM, DIRECTOR. HOW DO YOU PRONOUNCE LAST NAME? CARVALHO. CARVALHO. YES. ALL RIGHT. WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.
UM, I'M GOING TO HAND OVER THE FLOOR TO YOU IF YOU CAN STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR TITLE FOR THE RECORD AND, UM. YOU'RE FREE TO GIVE YOUR. OPENING REMARKS. THANK YOU. UH, MR CHAIRMAN.
GOOD AFTERNOON. UH, I AM EVANGEL CARVALHO. I AM THE EXECUTIVE. DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE. >> THE CITY OF BOSTON'S OFFICE . >> OF. POLICE. ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY. UH, AND.
>> THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME TO SPEAK TODAY, UH, ON THIS CRITICAL ISSUE. I WANT TO FIRST EXPRESS MY SYMPATHIES. TO, UM. AND MR STEPHEN KING'S. FAMILY AND THE FAMILIES.
UH. >> UM. >> OF THE MAN WHO WAS KILLED IN THIS CITY OVER THE WEEKEND. UH, AND, UM, ALL OF THE FAMILIES THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THESE TRAGIC INCIDENTS.
I'M HERE BECAUSE A KEY PILLAR OF ALL PAT'S MISSION IS TO HELP INCREASE TRUST IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, PARTICULARLY THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT IN BOSTON. IN RECENT WEEKS DUE TO THIS
INCIDENT. OPA HAS RECEIVED NUMEROUS REQUESTS FROM MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC, COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS AND LEADERS ASKING US TO CALL
FOR THE RELEASE OF THE BODY WORN CAMERA. THESE CONCERNS AGAIN ARE RELATED TO THESE INCIDENTS THAT I MENTIONED BUT OTHER INCIDENTS THAT HAVE OCCURRED AS WELL.
OVER THE LAST SEVERAL WEEKS AND MONTHS WE WANT TO BE UM YOU KNOW, ON BEHALF OF VOPAK. WE WANT TO BE DIRECT, TRANSPARENT WITH THE COMMUNITY WE SERVE.
OH, PAT BELIEVES THAT THE PUBLIC HAS A RIGHT TO SEE. THE BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE. WE ALSO. UM. >> RECOGNIZE THAT THE INTEGRITY OF ANY INVESTIGATIONS AND PROSECUTIONS MUST BE PROTECTED
. WE ACKNOWLEDGE THE CONCERN THAT WE'VE HEARD THAT PREMATURE RELEASE OF FOOTAGE COULD AFFECT JURY SELECTION, INFLUENCED PUBLIC. OPINION OR COMPROMISE WITNESS
TESTIMONY. IF THAT HAPPENS, IT COULD ULTIMATELY UNDERMINE THE VERY ACCOUNTABILITY THAT OPAC AND THE COMMUNITY ARE SEEKING.
OPPOSITION UM. IS THAT OPAC WAS CREATED TO BE ACTIVE AND AGILE. UH WHEN INCIDENTS LIKE THESE OCCUR. THAT IS ESSENTIAL BECAUSE THE
MAYOR HAS ASKED US TO PERFORM OUR MISSION EFFECTIVELY AND PROVIDE INFORMED INDEPENDENT OVERSIGHT. AND AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, A KEY PILLAR OF WHAT PAT'S
MISSION IS TO HELP INCREASE TRUST IN LAW ENFORCEMENT IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. OH, PAT WAS CREATED TO REPRESENT THE VOICE. OF THE. COMMUNITY IN. MOMENTS LIKE THIS. OUR INVOLVEMENT EARLY.
INFORMED AND INDEPENDENT. CAN HELP INCREASE THE PUBLIC'S TRUST NOT ONLY IN THE OUTCOME OF SPECIFIC CASES BUT IN THE PROCESS ITSELF.
WE AS I AND MY STATEMENT WE STAND. UH. >> READY TO WORK WITH WITH THE CITY COUNCIL, THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE AND CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT. AND OUR GOAL.
UM, UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES WHICH I WILL GIVE CREDIT TO THE FACT THAT IT IS NO I IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS TO ALL OF US IN THE CITY OF BOSTON IN TERMS OF WHAT. THIS YOU.
KNOW, LAST MONTH OR TWO HAS BEEN AND SO WE ARE ALL CHALLENGED TO. DO GOOD. UM. AND ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY OF BOSTON FOR HOPE
THAT OUR GOAL WAS SIMPLY TO HELP HONOR THE COMMUNITY'S RIGHT TO KNOW TO HELP PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF INVESTIGATIONS BECAUSE WE THINK THAT IS ALSO VERY IMPORTANT AND TO HELP AND
TO HELP STRENGTHEN TRUST BETWEEN OUR COMMUNITIES AND LAW ENFORCEMENT. UH, THAT'S AGAIN THANK YOU FOR FOR INVITING ME AND UM.
AND AND TAKING THIS ISSUE HEAD ON. UM. >> I'M HAPPY TO TAKE QUESTIONS . AWESOME. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH, DOCTOR CARVALHO. UM, AGAIN, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU BEING DOWN HERE WITH US.
UH, WE'RE NOW GOING TO GO TO MY COUNCIL COLLEAGUES, UM, FOR COUNCILORS QUESTIONS STARTING WITH THE LEAD SPONSORS AND GOING WITH THE ORDER OF ARRIVAL . UM, COUNCILOR CULPEPER, I'M GOING TO DO FIVE MINUTES AGAIN FOR THIS ROUND HERE.
YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU, MISTER CHAIR. GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN. DIRECTOR CAVALLO. JUST A FEW QUESTIONS. UH, REGARDING OLD PAX, I THOUGHT. >> DO YOU HAVE THE.
RIGHT TO. >> ACCESS BODY. CAMERA FOOTAGE. AT THIS POINT. ? >> IF YOU WANTED TO SEE THE. BODY CAM FOOTAGE. COULD YOU CALL THE COMMISSIONER. AND ASK HIM. TO ALLOW YOU TO SEE THE BODY
ACCESS THE BODY FOOTAGE? BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE? CAN YOU REPEAT THAT PLEASE? DOES OPEC CURRENTLY. HAVE THE RIGHT. TO ACCESS BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE? WE WE.
ACCESS BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE ALL THE TIME. UM. >> IN TERMS OF. THE WAY IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, EXECUTING THE ORDINANCE ON DAILY. BASIS. >> WE GET COMPLAINTS FROM CIVILIANS FROM RESIDENTS IN THE CITY OF BOSTON AND WE GET ACCESS TO.
TO TO OUR CAMERAS. HAVE YOU SEEN. UH. >> BODY CAMERAS FOOTAGE. AND OFFICER INVOLVED SHOOTINGS? I HAVE NOT. HAVE YOU MADE THE REQUEST? I HAVE.
WHAT WAS THE RESPONSE? THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN, UH. WHAT? >> YOU KNOW. IT'S JUST AN EXTENDED YOU'VE PROBABLY HEARD BEFORE IN A SENSE THAT. THE YOU. KNOW, OBVIOUSLY ALL INCIDENTS
ARE SPECIFIC, RIGHT? UH, UNFORTUNATELY WE'VE HAD A COUPLE A FEW LATELY. BUT WITH MISTER KING'S POSITION. UH EXCUSE ME, MISTER KING'S INCIDENT IN PARTICULAR THAT YOU
KNOW THE. DA AND I SPOKE TO THE HIMSELF AS WELL AND THIS IS SORT OF WHERE THAT MESSAGE EARLY ON TRYING TO BALANCE THIS ACT, RIGHT? UH, I TALKED ABOUT IT RIGHT
WHERE SORT OF YES. IDEALLY WE COULD WE SHOULD GET THE BODY CAMERA BUT. YOU KNOW. >> IT IS. A A. UH YOU. >> KNOW, THE INDIVIDUAL THE POLICE OFFICER WAS CHARGED ALSO WAS CHARGED SO THAT, YOU KNOW,
PRESENTS A NEW CHALLENGE. I THINK, UH, CAN, UH, IN THIS SPACE THAT, UM, HAS SORT OF PREVENTED US FROM SEEING THE CAMERA. SO WITH REGARD TO. YOUR INVESTIGATION.
UM. >> IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT. YOU DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO CONDUCT A COMPLETE INVESTIGATION WITHOUT. ACCESS TO THE BODY. CAM FOOTAGE?
WE DO NOT. TO CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS? NO, I DON'T MEAN A. CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. I MEAN INVESTIGATIONS UNDER THE AUTHORITY THAT. >> YOU HAVE. YES. >> UH, YOU KNOW, IN ADDITION HYPOTHETICAL SITUATIONS.
YES. IF ANY FOOTAGE ANY AND ALL EVIDENCE IS OUT THERE INCLUDING TALKING TO WITNESSES, THOSE THINGS THOSE ARE THE PROTOCOLS THAT WE FOLLOW ON CASES ON A NORMAL BASIS.
AND UM, SO YES. . >> AND SO YOU REQUESTED THE REVIEW AND THE KING CASE. BODY CAM FOOTAGE AND. OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY.
I TALKED TO HIM ABOUT. >> IT AND AS THE COMMISSIONER. AND THEY BOTH DENIED ACCESS. YES. >> AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THAT'S ALSO. UM WORTH MENTIONING IS IS AND
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS THIS PARTICULAR CASE, YOU KNOW, IS SORT OF REALLY HIGH IN THE SPACE OF AUTHORITY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT AUTHORITY. RIGHT. >> IS THAT ALL AUTHORITY IS FOR CIVIL VIOLATIONS.
RIGHT. AND UH, IN CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS IN FACT BASED ON OUR ORDINANCE UM, AS I BELIEVE I SAID IN A STATEMENT RECENTLY WE CANNOT. QUOTE UNQUOTE AND TO.
FEAR I MEAN I THINK THIS IS THE LANGUAGE IN RIGHT. SO WHEN YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, AN OFFICER CHARGED IN THIS INCIDENT THEN IN THE DA AS YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY ARRAIGNMENT OR
THE PROCESS OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM ITSELF IS FALL AND THEN YOU KNOW, IT'S IT'S DIFFICULT TO FIGURE OUT HOW DO YOU SORT OF. DO A PARALLEL INVESTIGATION I GUESS IN A SENSE RIGHT.
SO SO WE BECAUSE AGAIN THIS THIS IS NEW WATERS RIGHT? WE JUST SAID OKAY YOU KNOW AND AS I SAID IN MY STATEMENT EARLIER AT THE END OF OUR MISSION IS TO ENSURE
ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY. RIGHT. AND SO WHEN WE SEE THE SYSTEM WORK AND IN THIS WAY THAT HAS IT'S SORT OF LIKE LET'S SEE YOU KNOW. >> LET'S LET'S. >> KEEP WATCH RIGHT LET'S
MONITOR. BUT YOU KNOW AS I THINK I HEARD YOU TALKING ABOUT GRAND JURY. THAT'S NEXT STEP AND ALL THESE OTHER PROCESSES WITHIN THE COURSE. SO WE'RE SORT OF WAITING AND MONITORING CLOSELY WHAT'S GOING ON.
SO YOU'RE MONITORING. NOT INVESTIGATING. THAT'S CORRECT SIR. AND YOU BEGIN YOUR INVESTIGATION AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE CRIMINAL CASE. YES. >> YES. I MEAN IN THIS CIRCUMSTANCES,
UH, YOU KNOW, OUR INTENTION WOULD. BE YOU KNOW, WHEN AT THE CONCLUSION OF THIS IS THAT WE WOULD THEN MORE OR LESS REVIEW. RIGHT.
SO AS YOU, UH, COUNSELOR I'M SURE KNOW AS WE HAVE THE WE HAVE THE TWO BOARDS, RIGHT? WE HAVE. >> THE CIVIL BOARD. WE HAVE THE INTERNAL AFFAIRS OVERSIGHT PANEL. RIGHT. AND SO THE CRB THE CIVIL REVIEW
BOARD USUALLY DOES INVESTIGATIONS. SO BUT WHEN THE PROCESS PROCEEDS THROUGH THE SYSTEM UH PARTICULARLY THROUGH. BPD LIKE WHAT WE'LL DO IS REVIEW WHAT HAPPENED. RIGHT.
SO THAT'S WHAT I ANTICIPATE DOING IN THIS CASE INSTEAD OF DOING. A COMPLETELY. >> NORMAL INVESTIGATION IF YOU DOES THAT MAKE SENSE BECAUSE SO. HELP ME UNDERSTAND WHEN YOU SAY REVIEW WHAT ARE YOU REVIEWING? I'M REVIEWING THE PROCESS.
SO ULTIMATELY YOU KNOW AT THIS POINT. I WOULD. REVIEW YOU KNOW THE TRIAL DOCUMENTS I WOULD REVIEW WITNESS STATEMENTS I WOULD REVIEW YOU KNOW OBVIOUSLY THE BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE I WOULD DO
REVIEW UH AND I TEND PERSONALLY TO GO TO MANY OF THESE PROCEEDINGS IN COURT MYSELF UH ,SO I CAN WATCH WHAT'S GOING ON BECAUSE UH, SO SO THE REVIEW . >> WILL BE. >> TO. LOOK AT YOU KNOW, HOW THE
PROCESS WORKED IN A SENSE. SO SO. YOU WOULD ALSO REVIEW THE RESULT. ALSO DEPENDING ON WHAT THE RESULT. >> IS RIGHT. AND OBVIOUSLY THE RESULT. YEAH. RIGHT. YES. >> AND THEN YOU WOULD EITHER
AGREE WITH THE RESULT OR. DISAGREE WITH THE RESULT. YES. >> YES AND NO IN A SENSE THAT. WELL NO NO. YOU WOULD SAY THAT AGREE WITH THE RESULT AND ASSERT IN CASE OR DISAGREE WITH.
>> THE RESULT CORRECT RIGHT. >> IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THE RESULT. CAN YOU? YOU CAN'T REVERSE THAT RESULT BUT YOU CAN REACH A DIFFERENT
CONCLUSION BASED ON YOUR REVIEW. YES. >> AND THE CONCLUSION THAT YOU REACH MAY HAVE SPECIFIC ENFORCEMENT AUTHORITIES.
TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT. THAT AND THEN THAT'S ONE THAT. SO THIS IS. ABOUT YOUR AUTHORITY TO ENFORCE CONCLUSIONS THAT YOU REACH. HERE'S YOU KNOW GREAT QUESTION GOOD QUESTION.
OKAY. AS I WAS SORT OF ALLUDED TO EARLIER, THE DYNAMICS OF THESE CASES THIS PARTICULAR ONE RIGHT IS DIFFERENT. TYPICALLY THE CASES THAT WE'LL
BE LOOKING AT OUR CASES THAT HAVE GONE THROUGH THE INTERNAL AFFAIRS DIVISION OF THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT. SO YOU DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE. UM THE DA'S INVOLVEMENT IN THE
DECISION MAKING HERE. THE CASE. PROCEEDS TO THE COURT AND MAY YOU KNOW, THE OUTCOMES MAY BE. ANY NUMBER OF THINGS. RIGHT. >> SO SO LET'S GO BACK TO THOSE CASES WHERE YOU REVIEW THE INTERNAL AFFAIRS DECISION CORRECT.
YOU REVIEW THE INTERNAL AFFAIRS DECISION. YOU DECIDE TO DISAGREE. WITH THE INTERNAL. AFFAIRS DECISION. YOU HAVE.
WHAT AM I. AN AUTHORITY WITH REGARD TO THE DECISION THAT YOU REACH. IS THE OPTIONS I HAVE UH WHICH I THINK UH SO THIS IS WHAT YOU GET INTO. OKAY.
NUMBER ONE WHEN WE DO. OUR REVIEWS OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS DECISIONS THAT OUR LENS IS. THIS UM, WE. LOOK FOR IT WAS IT THOROUGH. NUMBER ONE.
NUMBER TWO WAS IT FAIR? AND THAT'S THAT'S THE LENS OF THE APPEAL PROCESS WITHIN THE AUTHORITY. ONCE WE IF WE CONCLUDE TO YOUR POINT THAT THE OFFICER YOU KNOW
THAT WE DISAGREE ESSENTIALLY PRICE OPTIONS JUST DISAGREE OR . AGREE IF WE AGREE WE SEND THEM BACK FOR DISAGREE. THE PROCESS. CONTINUES AND WE SEND IT TO. >> THE COMMISSIONER. AND WE EXPLAIN WHY WE DISAGREE WITH. >> THE.
RECOMMENDATION TO THE COMMISSIONER. CORRECT. >> RIGHT. >> WHAT'S THE RANGE OF RECOMMENDATION. SO YOU KNOW. UH SO THE ON THIS SIDE OF. THE RECOMMENDATIONS ON. >> THE. CRB A DIFFERENT RIGHT ON. >> THE. CIVILIAN REVIEW BOARD SIDE. >> NO I. UNDERSTAND I UNDERSTAND.
AND SO JUST WANTED TO KIND OF MAKE SURE WE STAY IN THE SAME UH, PAGE IF YOU. WILL THE. ON ON ON THIS SIDE THE THE OPTIONS ARE DISAGREE RIGHT.
OR AGREE. OR DO MORE. WHICH WE CAN HAVE CASES WHERE YOU KNOW IF WE SEE THAT A PARTICULAR OFFICER OR YOU KNOW SOMEBODY WAS AN INTERVIEW WE
CAN SAY CAN YOU AND THIS CAN THIS THIS PERSON AND THAT PERSON WASN'T INTERVIEWED BUT ESSENTIALLY YOU KNOW, IT GOES TO THE COMMISSIONER RIGHT. PARTICULARLY THE DISAGREED
SPACE AND UM. EVEN UH OR SHE THE COMMISSIONER OF. BPD THEN CAN REPLY AND SAY YOU KNOW, WE. WE DID MORE.
>> UH OR IT WAS IN FACT THOROUGH AND FAIR FOR THESE REASONS. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE, SIR? I THINK I'LL GET. >> A. SECOND ROUND. OKAY. I CAN PICK IT UP THEN. THANK YOU, MISTER CHAIR. YES, COUNSELOR. >> BOTH OF YOU WILL DEFINITELY
GET A SECOND ROUND. UM, COUNCILOR LOUIJEUNE, DO YOU HAVE THE FLOOR? THANK YOU. UM, AND THANK YOU TO, UH, DIRECTOR CARVALHO FOR BEING HERE. WHAT I SORT OF HEAR YOU SAYING AND I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS IN THE STATUTE.
I'M NOT SURE OF THE STATUTORY, BUT WHAT I HEAR YOU SAYING IS THAT OPAC DOES NOT HAVE AND IS NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF DOING CONCURRENT INVESTIGATIONS WHEN
THERE'S AN ACTIVE CRIMINAL PROCESS THAT'S PLAYING ITSELF OUT OR. SO. YES OR NO. OKAY. >> UH. IT'S IT'S IT'S A FAIR QUESTION IS IT'S THE ANSWER'S A BIT MORE COMPLEX. MHM. >> WHAT IT SAYS IN THE
ORDINANCE. RIGHT. >> UM IS THAT WE ARE NOT TO INTERFERE WITH CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION. MHM. NOW WHAT IS. THAT'S NOT. DEFINED RIGHT BUT. IN THE. >> ORDINANCE RIGHT.
IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IN A INCIDENT AND I CAN'T THINK OF A HYPOTHETICAL RIGHT NOW THAT WE CAN'T DO A PARALLEL INVESTIGATION. RIGHT. WHAT I WAS TRYING TO CONVEY IS THAT IN THIS SITUATION WHEN THE
PERSON AT THE OFFICE IS CHARGED THAT'S SORT. OF TO ME LIKE OKAY, YOU. KNOW, THE PROCESS OF CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION IS WHAT IS. WHAT ARE WE DOING IN THAT SPACE ? WHEN AT THE END OF THE DAY THE
THE. OFFICE WAS DESIGNED TO INCREASE TO. >> DO. ACCOUNTABILITY TRANSPARENCY AND HERE THE SYSTEM IS SAYING WE'RE. GOING THROUGH THE. ACCOUNTABILITY THROUGH. THROUGH A MUCH. HIGHER PROCESS THAT IS DESIGNED
TO DO AS A AS A ADMINISTRATIVE BODY. RIGHT. RIGHT. >> THIS IS A CRIMINAL. INVESTIGATION THAT. IS CLEAR. YOU KNOW, SO THAT SORT. OF IN THIS SPACE TO ME. YOU KNOW. THIS IS WHERE SO LIKE DOES IT
MAKE SENSE? YEAH NO I UNDERSTAND RIGHT. IT'S IT'S SO IT'S SO BASICALLY YOU DO HAVE THE AUTHORITY ALTHOUGH OKAY IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT IT'S
AMBIGUOUS AS TO WHETHER THE STATUTE LEAVES IT OPEN AS TO WHETHER YOU CAN RUN CONCURRENT OR PARALLEL INVESTIGATIONS. YES. IT SOUNDS AS THOUGH HISTORICALLY SPEAKING THE CONCURRENT INVESTIGATIONS WHEN
THERE'S A OPEN CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION HAS NOT OCCURRED . LARGELY. >> YES, LARGELY. >> AND YOU'RE SAYING IN THIS MATTER WHICH IS A MATTER OF FIRST IMPRESSION, CORRECT FOR THE BODY FOR BOTH OPEN AS AN ADMINISTRATIVE BODY, WHICH I
THINK IS AN IMPORTANT REMINDER. UM, BUT ALSO IN THE CASE OF BODY WORN CAMERAS THAT UM IT IS NOT YOU'RE SORT OF SAYING
THAT LIKE THIS IS AN OFFICE OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY AND ON THE QUESTION OF WHETHER CHARGES SHOULD HAVE BEEN BROUGHT AGAINST THE POLICE OFFICER IN ORDER TO ENSURE THAT, UH,
ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY THAT HAS BEEN FULFILLED IN PART BECAUSE OF BECAUSE OF THEIR CHARGES HAVE BEEN BROUGHT TO LIKE CHECKBOX ON THE SECOND
DARY QUESTION WHICH IS A SUBSET QUESTION ABOUT THE RELEASE OF BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE TO. UM. >> EITHER PROVIDE MORE TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY TO THE PUBLIC TO REASSURE
PEOPLE THAT LIKE EVERYTHING WAS FOLLOWED WHAT WHERE WHERE DOES ALL PAT STAND ON THAT ISSUE? SO AGAIN BECAUSE AS YOU. UH MADAM COUNCIL SHE JUST SAID THIS MADAM FOR INSTANCE MY.
LISTED UM BUT FIRST TIME WE'RE SEEING THIS RIGHT? RIGHT RIGHT. AND YOU. >> KNOW YOU HAVE THE DA SAYING THIS THAT ESSENTIALLY YOU. KNOW. >> I'VE CHARGED A PERSON. AND YOU KNOW, THIS COULD TECHNICALLY. BE AN ISSUE.
FOR JURY, YOU KNOW, SELECTIONS. >> AND THINGS LIKE THAT. RIGHT. THAT'S A LEGITIMATE CONCERN THAT AS AN ATTORNEY AS A FORMER PROSECUTOR I HAVE TO THINK ABOUT RIGHT. YOU KNOW, SO IF THE CASE IF. >> THE CASE I THINK THE THE CLEAR PATH FORWARD BACK UM
OFFICE OF POLICE TO KIND OF BRING TRANSPARENCY. UH IS. IF THE CHARGES WERE. NOT RIGHT THIS IS A. IF THE IF THE DA IS NOT INVOLVED. >> IN CHARGING THE POLICE OFFICER SO FOR. STATING THAT IF IN THAT
SITUATION WHERE THERE WEREN'T CHARGES BROUGHT AND THE AND THE AND THE CAMERA AND THE BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE HADN'T BEEN RELEASED THEN THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE OF A SORT OF MORAL OBLIGATION OR IMPERATIVE
OF YOUR OFFICE AS AN ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICE TO SORT OF STAND IN THE GAP. CORRECT. >> RIGHT. AND SPEAK UP AND STATE THAT. CORRECT. WHY HASN'T THIS FOOTAGE BEEN RELEASED? CORRECT. AND IN THIS MOMENT THOUGH THERE IS THERE ARE MEMBERS OF THE
PUBLIC AND MEMBERS OF THIS BODY PASSED A RESOLUTION ABOUT REVIEWING THE USE OF BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE AND THE NEED IN THIS SITUATION. YOU'RE YOU'RE STATING THAT THE
CONFLICT IS IN PART BECAUSE YOU ARE SEEING SORT OF THE MISSION OF OPAC BEING LIVED OUT IN SORT OF THE ACTIONS IN PART OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY. NOW I THINK THERE IS STILL AN OPEN QUESTION WHICH IS WHY
WE'RE HAVING THIS HEARING ABOUT UH ON WHAT SCHEDULE SHOULD YOU RELEASE BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE IN THE GAP HERE IS THAT THERE IS IN IN OTHER STATES AND IN OTHER CITIES. I KNOW THAT THE COUNCIL BEFORE SPOKE.
UM THE ATTORNEY FROM THE DEPARTMENT FROM BPD THERE ARE SITUATION OTHER CITIES AND STATES WHERE THERE IS ON A SCHEDULE WHERE YOU RELEASE BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE. NOW WHETHER THERE'S AN EXCEPTION OR AN EXEMPTION IN
THOSE STATES FOR ACTIVE INVESTIGATIONS PAYMENT OF A GRAND JURY I'M NOT SURE BUT UM I JUST WANT TO LAY THAT OUT THERE HOPEFULLY WITH SOME FLAHERTY BECAUSE. >> I THINK. I YES I THINK. YOU KNOW, YOU. YOU AND I WERE AT LEAST ONE
MEETING RIGHT? YOU KNOW. >> I UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATION. YEAH. >> SO THE. COMMUNITY AND WHAT'S. GOING ON IS DEFINITELY UM WE ALL AT A HEIGHTENED, YOU. KNOW, STATE OF. BEING RIGHT NOW. YEAH. >> WELL, I WANT TO THANK YOU
FOR YOUR WORK BECAUSE I KNOW THAT IT'S, UM, NOT BEEN EASY STANDING UP THE OFFICE OF, UH, OFFICE OF POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY AND KNOW THAT THIS BODY REALLY CARES ABOUT HAVING, UH, ADMINISTRATIVE BODY THAT HAS SOME SORT OF TEETH.
THERE'S NO POINT IN HAVING AN OFFICE THAT, UM, IS JUST WINDOW DRESSING. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU KNOW, I'M NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT IN THIS SITUATION I'M TALKING ABOUT OVERALL. UM, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT WHEN RECOMMENDATIONS ARE MADE AND
THAT YOU ARE THAT YOU ARE CONSIDERED AS A LEGITIMATE BODY IN THIS CITY, UM, TO DO THE WORK OF POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY. SO I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK AND YOUR ONGOING EFFORTS TO MAKE OPAC UH, TO
LIVE UP TO WHAT UH ADVOCATES WANTED IN UM WHEN WHEN THEY ADVOCATED FOR THE OFFICE. SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR LOUIJEUNE . COUNCILOR WEBER, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. OKAY. >> YEAH. THANKS.
UM, YEAH, I GUESS JUST GOING TO THE THE THE RULES THAT ARE IN PLACE, YOU KNOW, FOR OPEN FOR BODY CAMS IN GENERAL THE
RELEASE OF BODY CAM FOOTAGE WAS THIS KIND OF SITUATION EVEN CONTEMPLATED LIKE WHEN WE CAME UP WITH THESE RULES BECAUSE IN TERMS OF TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY, YOU KNOW, LIKE
I THINK YOU'RE SUGGESTING THAT LIKE THAT'S IT WOULD LEAD TO THE GOAL WOULD BE TO LEAD TO CRIMINAL CHARGES. THAT'S A AS YOU KNOW, ONE POSSIBLE OUTCOME AND THAT THAT'S ALREADY SORT OF ALREADY
HAPPENED BEFORE THE REST OF THE PROCESS COULD EVEN START. CAN YOU JUST. I MEAN. CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHETHER WE'VE YOU KNOW, WHETHER WHEN THESE RULES ARE BEING
DRAWN UP WE EVEN IMAGINE THAT THIS WOULD BE A POTENTIAL SCENARIO. UM. >> HOPING TO UNDERSTAND HOW I CAN ELABORATE FURTHER. UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK AGAIN IN THIS SITUATION.
UM. >> AS COUNCILOR LOUIJEUNE SAID EARLIER, YOU. KNOW. >> FOR US IT'S YOU KNOW, THE SYSTEM IS WORKING IF YOU WILL, RIGHT RIGHT NOW AND BASED. ON WHAT WE'RE. SEEING, UH. >> I WAS PERSONALLY AT THE ARRAIGNMENT.
AND AS I. MENTIONED WILL BE MONITORING. CLOSELY TALKING TO THE COMMISSION TALKS TO TO TO TO. TO UM TO DE AND CERTAINLY THE MAYOR IN OUR TEAM UH MY TEAM
SO. WE'RE SORT OF ON THE GROUND EVEN IN THE COMMUNITY MEETINGS THAT. DID AND I'VE SEEN SOME OF YOU. UH IN SO. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING AT THIS POINT RIGHT. SO I HAVE AND YOU. KNOW, JUST TO. >> SORT OF. REALLY AND.
>> I APPRECIATE THAT WE HAVE THIS CONVERSATION BECAUSE WE. >> ALWAYS TRYING. >> TO. FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO. UM. >> BUT THE THE RULES FOR WHAT I. YOU KNOW, I'VE READ THIS TOO MANY TIMES THAT DOESN'T. REALLY CONTEMPLATE. IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE CONTEMPLATING THAT.
OTHER THAN. >> WHAT I'M. SAYING THAT ARE SAID EARLIER WHICH I HOPE AT. IS IT SHOULD BE SORT OF. HOW ARE WE DOING LIKE. >> WE SORT. >> OF IN THESE SPACES TO TO TALK TO THE PUBLIC TO. TO YOU. >> KNOW TO CONNECT WITH BPD TO. TO COME TO. YOU KNOW, CITY.
COUNCIL MEETINGS TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES. SO DO YOU THINK THE RULES NEED TO SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO IF THERE'S THERE'S BEEN CRIMINAL CHARGES
FILED I GUESS IF YOU COULD HAVE YOU KNOW, UH, ANY INSTRUCTIONS OR IF THERE WAS A WORLD WHERE YOU'D LIKE TO BE LIVING IN LIKE HOW WOULD THE RULES BE DIFFERENT? WHERE QUESTION OR.
UH OR WOULD THEY YOU KNOW. YOU KNOW, I THINK I THINK WHAT WE CAN DO WHICH WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW IS IS LOOKING AT YOU KNOW, AGAIN BEING IN THIS MOMENT IF YOU WILL RIGHT WITH
THESE WRESTLING WITH THESE TOUGH QUESTIONS AND YOU KNOW UM AND I'M HERE AS I SAID TO SORT OF TALK TO THOSE INTERESTED IN SEEING WHAT THE OPTIONS ARE. IT'S HARD TO SORT OF COME UP AS I SAID FOR INSTANCE EARLIER YOU
KNOW, IT SAYS DO NOT INTERFERE WITH WITH CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? UH, MAKING LAW AND EXECUTING IS REALLY HARD. BUT I THINK IN THIS MOMENT NOW THAT WE ARE IN WE HAVE IN THE RIGHT CONVERSATIONS TO
HOPEFULLY COME UP WITH SOMETHING UH, PERHAPS UH AS A CITY THAT THAT MAKES SENSE TO ALL. AND THEN I THINK COUNCILOR CULPEPER SPENT SOME TIME TALKING ABOUT UM IN THE
RULES WHERE POLICE OFFICERS CAN REVIEW THE FOOTAGE BEFORE MAKING A STATEMENT. THEY THEY MIGHT EVEN HAVE THEIR ATTORNEY THERE. UH, IN NON DEATH INVESTIGATIONS.
UM HAVE YOU SEEN THAT HAS THAT LIKE KIND OF PROCEDURE IMPACTED YOUR ABILITY IS IN TOUCH AT ALL BUT I KNOW PAT'S WORK. UM PERHAPS LIGHTLY YOU KNOW YOU
HAVE IS YOU KNOW OBVIOUSLY I CAN'T COMMENT TOO MUCH ON THE RULE AND WHAT THE PRIOR CONVERSATION WAS BECAUSE I DIDN'T HEAR MUCH OF IT. BUT YOU KNOW, POLICE OFFICERS AS A WHEN I WAS A PROSECUTOR. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, THEY KIND OF HAVE TO
LOOK AT THE REPORT, RIGHT? UH, THE THEY HAVE ISSUE CAMERAS. THEY CAN LOOK AT THOSE CAMERAS. THEY SHOULD LOOK AT THOSE CAMERAS. RIGHT. SO THAT'S PART OF THEIR JOB IN A SENSE. SO WHEN THEY DO IT, UM, YOU
KNOW, IT'S IMPORTANT BUT IT'S ALSO PART OF THE PROCESS. THEY YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE THE POLICE REPORT THEY HAVE THEY OWN CAMERAS. THEY CAN SEE THOSE THINGS AND PARTICULARLY YOU KNOW, IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS OBVIOUSLY
YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT. YOU KNOW THIS THIS IS WHERE THE COUNCILOR YOU KNOW, DEFENSE STUFF COMES IN. SO IT'S HARDER TO SORT OF GO IN THAT SPACE RIGHT? BECAUSE IF YOU UH IN THIS
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY'S ENTITLED TO UM YOU KNOW, TOO MANY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AS WE KNOW. >> WELL, JUST LAST QUESTION AND I ASSUME IF THERE WAS A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION YOU'D HAVE SOMEBODY MAYBE ASSERTING
THEIR FIFTH AMENDMENT RIGHTS WHEN IF YOU'RE TRYING TO GET THEM ON THE RECORD ABOUT SOMETHING I'M NOT. DO YOU BUMP UP AGAINST THAT? WE WE KNOW IT ASSESS BECAUSE
LARGELY AGAIN YOU KNOW OFFICERS HAVE YOU KNOW DID AS I'M SURE YOU SEEN SUBPOENA OFFICERS RECENTLY RIGHT. SO BUT LARGELY THEY COME IN THEY HAVE RIGHTS YOU KNOW PROCEDURAL RIGHTS THAT WE GIVE
THEM WE GIVE THEM SIGNED DOCUMENTS BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARY. BUT THEY CAN YOU KNOW THEY CAN'T JUST SAY SOMETHING LIKE. THAT RIGHT. >> DO YOU THINK DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD BE AN ISSUE IF THERE WAS A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION ONGOING WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO TALK TO SOMEONE?
YEAH I MEAN I COULD SEE IT NOT NOT JUST ENOUGH TO ANYONE. RIGHT. IF THERE'S A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS AGAINST ANYONE RIGHT IN KIND OF FORCE AND AND THIS IS OUTSIDE OF OPAQUENESS IS, UH, YOU KNOW, FAIRNESS IN
PROCESS DUE PROCESS IN IN IN OUR SYSTEM. RIGHT. SO IF THERE'S POTENTIAL FOR A PERSON TO BE CHARGED WITH A CRIME AND YOU'RE PUSHING IT INTO A SPACE OF A NON-CRIMINAL
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SPACE WHICH THIS IS IS UH, AS I SAID, OUR ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING. SO ASK THEM QUESTIONS THAT MEAN, YOU KNOW, GET THEM INCRIMINATED THAT THAT'S A FAIR THEY COULD JUST SAY YES. I CAN'T JUSTIFY BECAUSE YOU
KNOW. AND OKAY THANK. >> YOU THANK YOU. YES YES. YEAH I BELIEVE SO OKAY THANKS. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR WEBER. I HEARD YOU LOOK FOR. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. UM. >> I WANT TO JUST PICK UP WHERE
WE LEFT OFF IN TERMS OF, UM AND YOU KNOW, LET ME JUST SAY I THINK YOU'VE HANDLED, UH, THIS
MATTER INVOLVING POLICE OFFICERS INVOLVED KILLING PROBABLY AS BEST ANYONE COULD. SITTING IN YOUR SEAT. UM, BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO
BEGIN ANY KIND OF REVIEW RIGHT NOW THERE'S NOT MUCH TO REVIEW WITH REGARD TO, UM, POLICE BEHAVIOR, BUT IN THE PAST YOU ISSUED SUBPOENAS.
IS CORRECT. WE ISSUED SUBPOENAS IN THE PAST. UM. TO A POLICE OFFICER. CORRECT. >> BUT IT'S THAT ITSELF IS NO. YOU KNOW, WHEN I CAME INTO THIS
OFFICE NEXT MONTH WILL BE TWO YEARS TO. ISSUE THEM. I ISSUE SUBPOENAS AND THIS WAS BUT. TO POLICE OFFICERS. CORRECT. AND DID THEY FOLLOW THE
SUBPOENAS? UM WE HAD A FEW OFFICERS COME UM TO SO THIS WAS A KNOW I REMEMBER EXACTLY BUT IT WAS 8 OR 9 AND THREE CAME WITH THE
UNION REPRESENTATIVE IN FACT, UH, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNION, ERIC CALDERONE AND THEY WERE A COUPLE OF THE OFFICERS UH, OR DETECTIVES, YOU KNOW, USING OFFICES OFFICERS LOOSELY
BECAUSE YOU KNOW, PEOPLE'S TITLES CHANGE DEPENDING ON WHAT THEIR THEIR DUTIES ARE. WE HAD A COUPLE THAT SAID, YOU KNOW, WE HAD LAWYERS REACH OUT AND SAID WASN'T AVAILABLE AND
YOU KNOW, GIVE HIM MORE TIME. SO AND WE HAD A COUPLE THAT WE DIDN'T HEAR FROM THE CASES TO KIND OF GET TO WHAT I BELIEVE YOU GET INTO IS THE CASES NOW ACTUALLY WE HAVE SO A LOT
OF THOSE CASES THAT WERE NOT SETTLED BECAUSE THE OFFICER COULDN'T SHOW WE DID WHAT WE I'M SURE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE PROCESS IN THE COURT SYSTEM IS YOU JUST GET ANOTHER DAY GIVE THE PERSON THE ABILITY TO COME
BACK RIGHT IF YOU WILL. UM AND AND THANKFULLY TO BE HONEST WE'VE BEEN WORKING BEHIND THE SCENES TO GET THEM RIGHT AND AND OUR NEXT MEETING
IS IN APRIL OR LATE APRIL I THINK. I MEAN I DON'T KNOW I WON'T SAY THE EXACT TIME BECAUSE I DON'T AND THEY I DON'T RECALL BUT WE'RE HOPING TO GET YOU KNOW TO GET OFFICERS TO TO FULLY COMPLY .
RIGHT. BUT WE WE I DID ISSUE SUBPOENAS CORRECT. AND SO THEY DIDN'T FULLY COMPLY. SOME OFFICERS DID. SOME OFFICERS DID. LET ME ASK YOU THIS. YES.
TRY AND GET TO WHY ARE YOU REALLY HERE? YES. >> HOW CAN THE COUNCIL HELP STRENGTHEN OPARE? AND WHAT DO YOU NEED FROM US?
IF POSSIBLE IF WE CAN DO IT TO HELP STRENGTHEN THE OFFICE. UM. AND WHERE YOU SEE WEAKNESSES, WHERE YOU SEE YOU NEED HELP OR
NEW ORDINANCES OR NEW AUTHORITIES. UM. >> YOU KNOW, I THINK HONESTLY I THINK DISCUSSIONS LIKE THESE ARE PRODUCTIVE. I, UH YOU KNOW, FOLKS, WE WE OFTEN FOCUS ON THE
ACCOUNTABILITY SPACE, WHICH IS IMPORTANT BUT HOPE THAT WORKS TO TWO PILLARS TRANSPARENCY. THE DISCUSSIONS THAT WE HAVE NOW ARE VERY IMPORTANT. I THINK ALSO YOU KNOW WE WHEN WE THAT THE OTHER THING THAT
HAPPENS AND I KNOW COUNCILOR YOU'RE NEW TO THE COUNCIL PERHAPS WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S HAPPENING BUT WHEN WE THE OTHER THING THAT HAPPENS IS THAT WHEN WE ISSUE OUR COMPLAINTS EXCUSE ME OUR RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE COMMISSION, WE ALSO, UH, SEND
ME TO YOU. ALL RIGHT. UH, AND I KNOW I MET WITH MANY OF YOU BEFORE, SO. UM. >> SO THOSE ONGOING CONVERSATIONS I THINK ARE HELPFUL AND AND I MENTIONED THE REPORTS BECAUSE THEY ARE
REPORTS ALL ONLINE. BUT YOU KNOW, WHEN WE SEE INCIDENTS I THINK YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS IMPORTANT WE'RE DEALING WITH YOU KNOW, LIFE OR DEATH SITUATIONS BUT THIS ONGOING THINGS THAT ARE
HAPPENING THAT WE CAN KEEP MOVING THE NEEDLE FORWARD. RIGHT. WHAT WHAT OTHER OPTIONS DO YOU HAVE WHEN YOU ISSUE A RECOMMENDATION TO THE COMMISSIONER AND THE COMMISSIONER DECIDES NOT TO
FOLLOW YOUR RECOMMENDATION. THE OPTIONS. UH, WHICH AGAIN SOME OF THIS UH AS PLAYED IN THE NEWS AS WELL IS THE COMMISSIONER IS REQUIRED
FOR OUR ORDINANCE TO REPLY TO SEND US AN ANSWER A RESPONSE LETTER AS WE CALL IT TO SAY YOU KNOW TO IF HE'S NOT UH HE OR SHE OR THEY UH THE INDIVIDUAL
DOES NOT DOES NOT FOLLOW OUR DIRECTIONS OR OUR RECOMMENDATIONS ARE TO THEM. THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO SEND US A RESPONSE SAYING AS TO WHY. RIGHT, RIGHT.
AND UH, WE WERE HAVING SOME DIFFICULTIES. UM, AND THIS IS ACTUALLY THE MIDDLE OF THE ELECTION PERHAPS THE CRB DID RIGHT. THE CRB DECISION REVIEW BOARD
DID WRITE THE COMMISSIONER A LETTER EXPLAINING THAT WE NEED, YOU KNOW, PROMPT RESPONSE TO SOME OF THE CASES THAT WE HAD ALREADY ISSUED. UM, SO BUT WE HAVE HAVE AND YOU KNOW, WE ARE HAVING SOME IMPROVEMENT IN THAT DIRECTION
OF COLLABORATION. WOULD IT HELP IF WE HAD AND TIME FRAMES TO WHEN THE COMMISSIONER SHOULD RESPOND TO YOU? UH THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. UH I WILL SAY ALSO THAT YOU
KNOW, WE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THAT I'M WORKING ON AMONGST MANY. THINGS UH, IN FACT THE OPAC COMMISSION WE HAVE A MEETING ON THURSDAY. UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THAT I'M SLOWLY PUTTING TOGETHER TO
WHICH WE ARE WORKING ON THIS SPECIFIC PLACE IS TO COME UP WITH MORE THOROUGH AND COMPREHENSIVE REGULATIONS SO THAT THE COMMISSION RIGHT YOU KNOW THE TWO. BOARDS. . UH, THE CHAIRS, YOU KNOW, ALONG WITH ME OR THE COMMISSIONERS WE
CAN DO MORE REGULATIONS TO SORT OF SAY THIS IS WHEN WE EXPECT THINGS TO HAPPEN. UM, AND SO WE'RE GOING YOU KNOW, AS PARTICULARLY NOW WITH THINGS LIKE THIS HAPPENING. WE'RE FULFILLING THAT MORE AND
MORE. I WHEN I CAME INTO THE OFFICE WE HAD YOU KNOW, SOME REGULATIONS WERE VERY LIMITED AND SO I'M LOOKING AT THOSE THINGS TO EXPAND TO SEE IN THE GAPS AND PERHAPS NOT WAITING, YOU KNOW, TO CHANGE THE
ORDINANCE BUT A LOT OF THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO WITHIN OUR OWN AUTHORITY AS YOU KNOW, AS REGULATORS IF YOU. WANT TO CALL. >> THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. IT WOULD BE HELPFUL WHERE WE CAN HELP TO LET US KNOW.
>> OKAY I. THINK WE CAN HELP. THANK YOU. THANK. FOR THE QUESTION.
UM, FOR THE SAKE OF TIME, UH, GOOD GOOD INFORMATION THAT YOU GAVE US AND AND WE CAN FOLLOW UP OFFLINE. BUT I THANK YOU FOR COMING AND
THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU'VE DISCUSSED AND AND I DO THINK THESE DISCUSSIONS ARE VERY HELPFUL, ESPECIALLY WHERE WE CAN SEE HOW WE CAN HELP. I DO THINK A TIMELINE ON THE
COMMISSIONER TO RESPOND TO YOU ,UH, IS HELPFUL SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO WONDER ABOUT WHEN THERE WAS BOND AND A TIMELINE
WITH REGARD TO SOME ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM IN THE EVENT THAT THEY DON'T MAYBE YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS BECOME EFFECTIVE IF WITHIN 30 DAYS OR
15 DAYS THEY DON'T RESPOND. BUT WE CAN TALK MORE ABOUT THANK YOU. THANK YOU SIR. >> THANK YOU COUNCILOR CULPEPER AND UM UM I REALLY WANT TO THANK DIRECTOR CARVALHO FOR JOINING US TODAY AND ANSWERING OUR QUESTIONS. THANK YOU SIR.
UM, THANK YOU FOR THE WORK THAT YOU DO ON BEHALF OF THE CITY OF BOSTON AND OUR RESIDENTS. I WILL JUST NOW DISMISS UM, YOU FROM THIS PANEL AND WE'RE GOING TO INVITE. WE DO HAVE ONE LAST PANEL, UM,
WHO IS JOINING US VIRTUALLY. I WOULD NOW LIKE TO INTRODUCE, UM, CHRISTOPHER SCHNEIDER WHO IS UH OR DOCTOR CHRISTOPHER TONIGHT I SHOULD SAY UM, WHO IS
A UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR WHO'S GOING TO BE JOINING US. UM, I HEAR THAT YOU'RE YOU'RE A SPECIALIST SPECIALIST IN THIS AREA. YOU COME COME HIGHLY REGARDED BY COUNCILOR CULPEPER. SO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
JOINING US. IF YOU CAN JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND YOUR TITLE FOR THE RECORD AND, UM, YOU CAN PROCEED WITH OPENING REMARKS. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. JUST TO CLARIFY BEFORE I. BEGIN, YOU CAN HEAR ME.
OKAY. YES, WE CAN HEAR YOU. OKAY. >> SO MY NAME IS DOCTOR CHRISTOPHER SCHNEIDER. I AM A FULL PROFESSOR OF SOCIOLOGY AT BRANDON UNIVERSITY. I HAVE BEEN THINKING AND WRITING ABOUT BODY CAMERAS FOR
OVER A DECADE. MY RESEARCH HAS FOCUSED LARGELY ON INFORMATION TECHNOLOGIES AND RELATED TO CHANGES TO POLICE WORK. I'VE WRITTEN OR COLLABORATED ON
NINE BOOKS AND PUBLISHED OVER 100 SCHOLARLY PAPERS AND ESSAYS. MY RECENT COAUTHORED BOOK IS POLICE BODY WORN CAMERAS MEDIA
AND THE NEW DISCOURSE OF POLICE REFORM PUBLISHED IN JANUARY OF THIS YEAR. POLICE BODY WORN CAMERAS WERE INITIALLY PILOTED IN THE MID ARTS IN THE UK AND IN NORTH
AMERICA IN 2009. WIDESPREAD DISCUSSION OF EQUIPPING OFFICERS WITH BODY CAMERAS OCCURRED FOLLOWING EXTENSIVE MEDIA COVERAGE OF THE POLICE CAUSED DEATHS OF MICHAEL
BROWN IN FERGUSON, MISSOURI AND ERIC GARNER IN NEW YORK CITY EACH IN 2014. THE SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH TESTING THE EFFICACY OF BODY CAMERAS IS
INCONCLUSIVE. THE RESEARCH HAS MOSTLY TESTED THE CAMERAS FOR TWO THINGS. FIRST, DO BODY CAMERAS REDUCE THE LIKELIHOOD OF POLICE USE
OF FORCE? AND SECOND, DO BODY CAMERAS REDUCE CIVILIAN COMPLAINTS ABOUT POLICE? WHILE SOME STUDIES SHOW PROMISING RESULTS, OTHERS
REVEAL NO CHANGE. AND SOME HAVE FOUND AN INCREASE IN POLICE FORCE WHEN CAMERAS ARE PRESENT. GIVEN THESE INCONCLUSIVE FINDINGS, PUBLIC DISCUSSIONS
OF BODY CAMERAS HAVE INSTEAD BEGUN TO. FOCUS ON THE CONCEPTS OF TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY. HOWEVER, BOTH TRANSPARENCY AND
ACCOUNTABILITY ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO DEFINE AND OPERATIONALIZE. SO THE RESEARCH TELLS US NOTHING ABOUT WHETHER BODY WORN CAMERAS ACTUALLY CREATE
TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY . MOSTLY BECAUSE THERE IS NO UNIVERSAL DEFINITION FOR EITHER OF THESE CONCEPTS THAT CAN BE OPERATIONALIZED IN RESEARCH.
THE BASIC THESIS OF OUR BOOK POLICE BODY WORN CAMERAS IS THAT DISCUSSIONS AND MEDIA PLAY A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN HOW THE PUBLIC HAS COME TO UNDERSTAND
BODY CAMERAS, INCLUDING HOW THEY WILL OR WILL NOT WORK AND THE WAYS THAT BODY CAMERAS WILL CONTRIBUTE TO TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY WHICH IS WHY WE
ARE HERE TODAY. IN OUR BOOK WE ILLUSTRATE HOW THE CONCEPTS OF TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY EVOLVE IN MEDIA COVERAGE OVER A PERIOD
OF DECADES FROM THE EARLY 2000 TO THE 2020S INTO A DOMINANT POLICE REFORM PERSPECTIVE. WE CALL THIS THE NEW DISCOURSE OF POLICE REFORM.
POLICE REFORM IS NOT NEW. HOWEVER, THE NEW DISCOURSE OF POLICE REFORM AND THE PROBLEMS OF TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY ESTABLISHES THE
JUSTIFICATION FOR THE ADOPTION AND USE OF BODY CAMERAS. THE TERMS TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY EACH APPEAR IN THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT'S
BODY CAMERA POLICY RULE 405, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE POLICE AND THE PUBLIC SEE THESE IDEAS THE SAME WAY. ACCOUNTABILITY IN RULE 405 IS
EQUATED WITH REDUCED CIVILIAN COMPLAINTS, WHEREAS SADIKI CAMBON, THE DIRECTOR OF THE BOSTON BASED BLACK COMMUNITY INFORMATION CENTER EQUATES
ACCOUNTABILITY WITH THE RELEASE OF BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE OF THE KILLING OF STEVENSON KING. THE EVIDENCE REVEALS AS WE PAINSTAKINGLY DETAIL IN OUR BODY CAMERA BOOK A CONCEPTUAL
AND DEFINITIONAL INCONSISTENCY BETWEEN POLICE, ADMINISTRATORS, CIVIL LEADERS, CLERGY AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS. WHEN THE TERMS TRANSPARENCY AND
ACCOUNTABILITY ARE USED TO TALK ABOUT BODY CAMERAS AND POLICE REFORM SO WHAT CAN WE DO? FIRST AND FOREMOST TRANSPARENCY
AND ACCOUNTABILITY CANNOT AND SHOULD NOT BE ASSUMED. CLEAR AND DIRECT DEFINITIONS MUST BE ENSHRINED INTO POLICY AND THEN ENFORCED.
WHAT DOES TRANSPARENCY MEAN AND HOW WILL WE KNOW WHEN IT IS NOT PRESENT? WHAT DOES ACCOUNTABILITY MEAN AND HOW WILL WE KNOW WHEN THERE IS ACCOUNTABILITY?
BODY CAMERA PROGRAMS ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS THEIR POLICIES. CRIMINOLOGIST ROB MOSBY SUGGESTS THAT TRANSPARENCY IS NOT STRICTLY LIMITED TO
VISIBILITY, BUT THAT IT OUGHT TO ALSO INCLUDE POLICE DEMONSTRATING AN OPENNESS TO EXPLAIN EXACTLY HOW THE INSTITUTIONAL STRUCTURE AND
DECISION MAKING PROCESS OPERATE THAT POLICE WELCOME INDEPENDENT PUBLIC OVERSIGHT AND THAT THEY PROACTIVELY PUBLICIZE COMPLAINTS AND INVESTIGATIONS.
TRANSPARENCY IS ALSO CHARACTERIZED BY VISIBILITY THAT IS THE ABILITY TO SEE THE FOOTAGE. A REVIEW OF POLICE BODY CAMERA
PROGRAMS ACROSS THE UNITED STATES REVEALS WIDE VARIANCE ACROSS POLICIES, AND THE POLICY LANDSCAPE IS CONSTANTLY EVOLVING.
THE BPD RULE 405 STATES THAT BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE IS THE SOLE PROPERTY OF THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT AND SHALL NOT BE RELEASED WITHOUT THE AUTHORIZATION OF THE
COMMISSIONER. END QUOTE. ONE WOULD BE HARD PRESSED TO THINK OF AN EXAMPLE OF PUBLICLY FUNDED INFORMATION GATHERING IN PUBLIC SPACES WHERE THE DATA
ARE NOT ACCESSIBLE TO ANY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC EVER WITHOUT FILTERING BY THE COLLECTION AGENCY. WE NEED TO LOOK AT CHICAGO'S CIVILIAN OFFICE OF POLICE
ACCOUNTABILITY OR COPA AS AN EXEMPLARY MODEL OF SOLID POLICY WITH RESPECT TO BODY WORN CAMERAS COPA POLICY A GOLD
STANDARD OF POLICE OVERSIGHT GIVES COPA DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE ACCESS TO BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE. COPA ALSO HAS THE AUTHORITY TO RELEASE THE VIDEO.
THE PUBLIC HAS AN INTEREST IN TIMELY ACCESS TO BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE AND OTHER INFORMATION RELATED TO POLICE USE OF FORCE . BUT THERE ARE COMPETING INTERESTS INCLUDING THOSE
OF POLICE AND GOVERNMENT INSTITUTIONS WHO MAY WANT TO DELAY RELEASE TO AVOID COMPROMISING INVESTIGATIONS AND FAMILIES WHO HAVE CONCERNS OVER
THE RELEASE OF FOOTAGE OF THEIR LOVED ONES BEING KILLED. COPAS VIDEO RELEASE POLICY FOR THE CITY OF CHICAGO STRIKES A BALANCE BETWEEN THESE COMPETING
AND SOMETIMES CONFLICTING INTERESTS BUT IMPORTANTLY PUTS THE DECISION IN THE HANDS OF A NEUTRAL PARTY. ACCORDING TO COPAS POLICY QUOTE
THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY OF CHICAGO HAVE AN UNDENIABLE AND IN SOME CASES PARAMOUNT INTEREST IN BEING INFORMED IN A TIMELY FASHION ON THE MOST
ACCURATE INFORMATION POSSIBLE ABOUT HOW THEIR POLICE FORCE CONDUCTS ITS BUSINESS ESPECIALLY WHERE THE USE OF FORCE BY POLICE RESULTS IN DEATH OF OR GREAT BODILY HARM
TO A CIVILIAN. END QUOTE. COPAS POLICY STIPULATES THAT ANY INFORMATION COVERED BY ITS JURISDICTION, SUCH AS BODY
CAMERA FOOTAGE BE RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC NO MORE THAN 60 CALENDAR DAYS FROM THE DATE OF THE INCIDENT UNLESS A REQUEST IS MADE BY A GOVERNMENT
ENTITY TO DELAY A RELEASE FOR A PERIOD NOT TO EXCEED 30 CALENDAR DAYS. COPA AIMS TO RELEASE FOOTAGE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AFTER AN INCIDENT DEPENDING ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES.
ONCE THE CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT NOTIFIES COPA OF AN INCIDENT LIKE AN OFFICER INVOLVED SHOOTING OR A COMPLAINT HAS BEEN MADE TO COPA BY A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC.
COPA MANDATE ALLOWS FOR DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE ACCESS TO BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE, USUALLY WITHIN 24 HOURS AFTER THE CAMERA HAS BEEN DOCKED AND THE FOOTAGE UPLOADED TO A DATABASE.
AND COPA HAS THE AUTHORITY TO RELEASE VIDEO. COURT ORDERS CAN PREVENT RELEASE FOR EXAMPLE IF A CIVILIAN IS HARMED BECAUSE OF POLICE ACTIONS AND CHARGES
ARE PENDING AGAINST THE CIVILIAN BODY, CAMERA FOOTAGE MAY BE DELAYED BY COURT ORDER TO PROTECT THE RIGHT TO A FAIR TRIAL. HOWEVER, BECAUSE COPA MANDATE
IS PRIMARILY INTENDED FOR THE PROTECTION OF THE PUBLIC, THIS SAME STANDARD IS USUALLY NOT APPLIED TO POLICE OFFICERS WHO HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH A CRIME. WHEN A POLICE OFFICERS CHARGED
IN CHICAGO, THEIR DEFENSE ATTORNEY MAY SEEK A COURT ORDER TO DENY THE RELEASE OF BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE. BUT JUDGES GENERALLY DENIED
SUCH REQUESTS, CITING THAT COPA POLICY IS ABOUT THE OFFICER'S ACTIONS. IF COPA POLICY WERE APPLIED IN THE CITY OF BOSTON, THE VIDEO IN QUESTION WOULD HAVE LIKELY
ALREADY BEEN RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC AND WE WOULD NOT BE HERE TODAY. COPA ALSO MEETS WITH FAMILIES AFFECTED BY POLICE VIOLENCE PRIOR TO THE RELEASE OF BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE TO THE PUBLIC,
WHICH ENSURES THAT FAMILIES ARE AWARE AND PREPARED AT LEAST IN PRINCIPLE FOR THE EMOTIONAL IMPACT OF SEEING THE FOOTAGE OF THEIR LOVED ONE AND HELPS TO RESPOND TO VICTIMS OF VIOLENCE
IN A SENSITIVE AND CARING MANNER. COPA REPRESENTATIVES ALSO SPENT TIME IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS OF CHICAGO TO INFORM COMMUNITY MEMBERS OF COPAS WORK POLICIES
AND PROCEDURES SO THAT THE CITIZENS OF CHICAGO REMAINED INFORMED OF THEIR RIGHTS. THE COPA FRAMEWORK, WHILE A GOLD STANDARD, DOES HAVE LIMITS
BUT NEVERTHELESS PROVIDES US WITH A FRAMEWORK FOR OTHER CITIES TO FOLLOW INCLUDING THE CITY OF BOSTON. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR QUESTIONS.
THANK YOU SO MUCH. WE'RE NOW GOING TO GO TO COUNSELOR CULPEPER FOR. A FIRST ROUND OF QUESTIONS. COUNCILOR CULPEPER, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU. CHAIR SANTANA.
ALL RIGHT. GOOD TO HEAR YOU. DOCTOR SNYDER AND, UH, I'VE JUST GOT A FEW QUESTIONS. UM, WITH REGARD TO BODY WORN
CAMERAS, UH, DOES YOUR WORK SUGGEST THAT THEY WERE ADOPTED LARGELY ON THE BELIEF THAT THEY WOULD INCREASE ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY?
AND CAN YOU EXPLAIN THOSE EXPECTATIONS AND WHAT THEY WERE? YES, THAT IS CORRECT. THE RESEARCH LITERATURE SUPPORTS THE IDEA THAT BODY WORN CAMERAS HAVE LARGELY BEEN
ROLLED OUT ACROSS POLICE SERVICES ON THE BASIS OF BELIEFS AND ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT WHAT THE CAMERAS WILL DO NOT ONLY WITH RESPECT TO
ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY TO TERMS AS I NOTED THAT ARE VAGUE WITH NO UNIVERSAL DEFINITION OR CONSENSUS BUT ALSO THE IDEA THAT IF A POLICE
OFFICER IS WEARING A BODY WORN CAMERA, THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT THAT OFFICER IS OF COURSE NOT GOING TO ENGAGE IN POLICE MISCONDUCT OR BRUTALITY BECAUSE THEY KNOW THE CAMERAS
RECORDING. AND THE ASSUMPTION IS THAT THE CIVILIAN ON THE OTHER END OF THE CAMERA IS GOING TO COMPLY WITH POLICE COMMANDS BECAUSE THEY TO KNOW THAT
THEY'RE BEING RECORDED. HOWEVER, AS WE HAVE SEEN AND THE EVIDENCE HAS SHOWN, THESE ASSUMPTIONS ARE OFTEN INCORRECT . RATHER WHAT THE BODY WORN CAMERAS DO IS DOCUMENT POLICE
INTERACTIONS INCLUDING POLICE VIOLENCE IN THESE SITUATIONS AND ALSO DOCUMENTS UH, POLICE BRUTALITY, MISCONDUCT AND SO ON. SO AGAIN THE ASSUMPTION WAS AND
REMAINS IF CAMERAS ARE PRESENT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO NOT ENGAGE IN OTHERWISE PROBLEMATIC BEHAVIOR OR MISCONDUCT. BUT THAT'S SIMPLY NOT TRUE. IF IT WERE TRUE NOBODY WOULD
EVER ROB A BANK. NOBODY WOULD EVER STEAL FROM A CONVENIENCE STORE AND SO ON BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW THERE ARE SURVEILLANCE CAMERAS IN THESE LOCATIONS. UH, AND PEOPLE DO IT ANYWAY AND
THE CAMERAS DOCUMENT THIS BEHAVIOR. AND SO WITH REGARD TO POLICE DEPARTMENTS AND THE PUBLIC GENERALLY, DO THEY SHARE THE
SAME DEFINITION OF TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY OR ARE THEY OPERATING ON DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS? THEY'RE OPERATING ON DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS.
THIS IS WHAT WE FIND UH, LOOKING OVER THE DECADES OF DISCUSSIONS OF TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY IN OUR NEW BOOK THAT WAS PUBLISHED IN JANUARY THAT I REFERENCED. UM. >> POLICE BODY WORN CAMERAS, UH ,WHEN POLICE ADMINISTRATORS
TALK ABOUT TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY, THEY OFTEN MEAN SOMETHING VERY DIFFERENT THAN WHEN VICTIMS OF POLICE VIOLENCE. TALK ABOUT. POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY. CLERGY MEMBERS, MEMBERS OF THE
PUBLIC OVERSIGHT AGENCIES AND SO ON. AND THIS IS THE INDEED ONE OF THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEMS, UH, OF. DISCUSSING TRANSPARENCY OF ACCOUNTABILITY IN RELATION
TO BODY WORN CAMERAS BECAUSE IN A LOT OF WAYS THESE DIFFERENT GROUPS ARE JUST TALKING PAST ONE ANOTHER UNTIL THERE IS CONSENSUS OVER WHAT IT IS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
AS I NOTED IN MY STATEMENT, THAT'S ENSHRINED IN BODY WORN CAMERA POLICY THAT IS POLICE SIT DOWN WITH MEMBERS OF UH THE PANEL TODAY AND COMMUNITY
MEMBERS OVERSIGHT AGENCIES AND COME TO AN UNDERSTANDING AND AGREED UPON UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT TRANSPARENCY IS, WHAT ACCOUNTABILITY IS AND HOW THESE TWO THINGS ARE ACTUALIZED.
BODY WORN CAMERAS WILL DO VERY LITTLE IN RELATION TO TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY . HOW THESE DIFFERENT GROUPS SEE IT. AND THERE'S WIDESPREAD BELIEF THAT BODY CAMERAS UH THAT THEY
ACTUALLY IMPROVE POLICING AND THE OUTCOMES. WHAT DOES THE RESEARCH SAY ABOUT THE EFFECTIVENESS? CAN YOU REPHRASE THE QUESTION PLEASE?
THE WIDESPREAD BELIEF THAT BODY CAMERAS IMPROVE POLICING OUTCOMES. AND I WANT TO. KNOW ABOUT YOUR RESEARCH. WHAT DOES THE RESEARCH SAY
ABOUT HOW BODY CAMS IMPROVE OR DOESN'T IMPROVE POLICING OUTCOMES? MUCH OF THIS UH, YOU KNOW, WIDESPREAD THIS IDEA OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND
TRANSPARENCY CONNECTS TO A BROADER CONSIDERATION IN THE ACADEMIC RESEARCH LITERATURE OF WHAT HAS BEEN REFERRED TO AS POLICE IMAGE WORK OR POLICE BRAND MANAGEMENT.
THE IDEA BEING THAT DIFFERENT POLICE DEPARTMENTS WILL RELEASE BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE WILLINGLY WHEN IT SHOWS THEIR MEMBERS DOING GOOD THINGS RESCUING A CHILD FROM A BURNING BUILDING, RESCUING CAT FROM A
TREE AND SO ON. BUT IN OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES WILL STONEWALL REQUESTS UH WITH OFFICER INVOLVED SHOOTINGS AND OTHER SITUATIONS THAT MIGHT MAKE POLICE LOOK BAD?
INDEED, THIS IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN HEARING ABOUT ALL DAY TODAY DURING THE TESTIMONY. UH, OFFICER DISCRETION INCLUDING SENIOR OFFICERS IN THE CIRCUMSTANCE THE POLICE COMMISSIONER UTILIZED THEIR
DISCRETION ON WHEN AND HOW TO RELEASE BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE TO THE PUBLIC. THE RESEARCH UH, LITERATURE, INCLUDING MY RESEARCH SUGGESTS THAT THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH POLICE IMAGE WORK TO MAINTAIN
THAT POLICE BRAND AS BEING POSITIVE AND FAVORABLE TO THE PUBLIC UH, IN AN INTEREST OF ENSURING TRUST AND LEGITIMACY IN POLICE. AND IN YOUR WORK.
BUT YOU TALK ABOUT TRANSPARENCY AND HOW IT REMAINS AN ASPIRATIONAL CONCEPT. HOW IMPORTANT A CLEAR RELEASE POLICIES. AND TURNING THAT ASPIRATION
INTO SOMETHING REAL. WELL, I THINK YOU KNOW, AS I NOTED MY STATEMENT THAT THE BODY WORN CAMERAS BODY WORN CAMERA PROGRAMS ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS THE POLICIES THAT
DIRECT THE PROGRAM, GOVERN THE PROGRAM, DETERMINE BEST PRACTICES. SO YES, MY BOOK WE FOUND THAT TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY REMAIN ASPIRATIONAL CONCEPTS.
AS YOU NOTE HOWEVER THERE IS HOPE IF THESE CONCEPTS CAN BE OPERATIONALIZED VERY CLEARLY DEFINED IN BODY WORN CAMERA POLICY AND IMPORTANTLY THAT
POLICE ARE HELD TO ACCOUNT WHEN THEY VIOLATE THE BODY WORN CAMERA POLICY IN OTHER WORDS WHEN THEY DO NOT SAY FOR EXAMPLE RELEASED BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE UH IN THE
INTEREST OF TRANSPARENCY SHOULD THAT BE INCLUDED IN POLICY OR WHEN AND HOW WILL THEY FIND THEIR OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE OR NOT? SO FOR EXAMPLE, UH, WHEN YOU LOOK AT POLICY ACROSS NORTH
AMERICA AS MYSELF AND MY COLLEAGUE UH COAUTHOR OF THIS BOOK HAVE WE HAVE FOUND THAT POLICIES IN RELATION TO OFFICERS WHO HAVE BEEN FOUND AFTER AN INVESTIGATION TO HAVE
INTENTIONALLY NOT SWITCH THEIR CAMERA ON, INTENTIONALLY SWITCH THEIR CAMERA OFF, OBSCURED THE LENS OR THE AUDIO UH DOES NOT RESULT IN TERMINATION AS WE
THINK IT SHOULD BUT INSTEAD UH MIGHT RESULT IN UH DOCKED A DAY'S PAY OR A DEMOTION. SO ENSURING THAT THERE ARE STRONGER POLICIES IN RELATION TO ACCOUNTABILITY WHEN THERE IS
A FINDING THAT A POLICE OFFICER HAS ACTUALLY VIOLATED THE POLICY IN RELATION TO FOR EXAMPLE, TURNING THE CAMERA ON COULD HELP EMBOLDEN BODY WORN CAMERA PROGRAMS INCLUDING IN
PLACES LIKE BOSTON AND WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR POLICE OVERSIGHT AGENCIES FOR HOLDING OFFICERS TO ACCOUNT. CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE FIND RELEASE TIMELINE, THE
PROTOCOLS AND THE IMPORTANCE OF HAVING, UH, CLEAR AND DEFINED RELEASE TIMELINES OF POLICIES? SO I NOTED IN CHICAGO IT'S 60
DAYS UNLESS A GOVERNMENT ENTITY PUTS IN WRITING UH, FOR A REQUEST TO DELAY WHICH THEN COULD NOT NO LONGER BE UH 30 DAYS. UH, OTHER DEPARTMENTS I BELIEVE
THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT IS 45 DAYS. SO AS I NOTED IN MY OPENING STATEMENT, IT VARIES WIDELY ACROSS JURISDICTIONS. THAT SAID, THERE ARE POLICE
AGENCIES THAT DO HAVE TIMELINES ENSHRINED INTO THEIR BODY WORN CAMERA POLICY. THIS IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE WHAT IT DOES IS IT SETS PUBLIC EXPECTATIONS, UH, ACCORDING TO
THE BODY WORN CAMERA POLICY AND VERY IMPORTANTLY WHEN POLICE GROUPS DO NOT PROVIDE BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE THERE MUST BE A RATIONALE PUT IN WRITING UH, IF WE'RE NOT DOING SO SIMPLY USING
THEIR DISCRETION AND SAYING THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO RELEASE FOOTAGE JUST BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO IS NOT ENOUGH AND THAT CAN BE USED THEN TO THEN HOLD UH, OFFICERS
OR COMMANDING OFFICERS, UH, TO ACCOUNT FOR DENYING ACCESS TO FOOTAGE. AND SO BASED ON YOUR RESEARCH, WHAT HAVE YOU SEEN NATIONALLY
WITH REGARD TO KEY BEST PRACTICES FOR BODY CAMERAS POLICIES? IF THE GOAL IS TO BUILD PUBLIC TRUST. I THINK THAT UH, COPA IN
CHICAGO AS I NOTED IS A GOLD STANDARD. SO ONE THING THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT. SO WHEN WE LOOK AT RULE 405 AND AS I NOTED IN MY STATEMENT WE SEE IN BOSTON THAT IT'S THE
POLICE COMMISSIONER'S SOLE DISCRETION OVER WHETHER OR NOT BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE GETS RELEASED. UH, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK WOULD NEED TO CHANGE, UH, IN PLACES LIKE BOSTON AND OTHER
PLACES THAT MIGHT HAVE THAT ENSHRINED INTO POLICY UH, INSTEAD HAVING A NEUTRAL THIRD PARTY OVERSIGHT AGENCY AND PROVIDING THEM WITH ACCESS TO
BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE AS WE SEE IN CHICAGO IS VERY IMPORTANT. SO FOR INSTANCE, IF A CIVILIAN HAS AN INTERACTION WITH A POLICE OFFICER IN THE CITY OF CHICAGO AND THEY BELIEVE
THAT INTERACTION WENT WRONG OR THEY BELIEVE THAT'S THE CIVILIAN THAT THE POLICE OFFICER ENGAGED IN MISCONDUCT OR BRUTALITY, THEY FILE A COMPLAINT WITH COPA, A THIRD
PARTY NEUTRAL AGENCY. ONCE THAT COMPLAINT HAS BEEN FILED, COPA INVESTIGATIVE MANDATE TAKES EFFECT AND COPA IS ALLOWED TO LOG IN TO THE
DATABASE AND IMMEDIATELY REVIEW THAT BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR ENSURING TRUST AND LEGITIMACY IN POLICE BECAUSE TO HAVE AN OVERSIGHT AGENCY THAT HAS UH
TEETH I GUESS TO PUT IT HELPS THEN TO ENSURE LEGITIMACY TO MEMBERS TO THE PUBLIC BECAUSE IF THEY HAVE AN ADEQUATE INTERACTION WITH POLICE OFFICER THEY KNOW THAT THEY CAN MAKE A COMPLAINT AND THEY CAN ALSO BE
PROVIDED WITH THEIR BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE BY COPA WHERE IN OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING FOR EXAMPLE LISTENING LISTENING TO THE TESTIMONY TODAY THAT BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE REQUESTS ARE
ROUTINELY DENIED. UH AS NOTED BY LEGAL BPD LEGAL COUNCILOR TODAY WHEN MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC CALL THEY HAVE ACCESS TO IT BECAUSE THEY'RE CALLING THE POLICE TO ASK FOR ACCESS TO THEIR OWN FOOTAGE
INSTEAD HAVING MORE POWER TO A THIRD PARTY OVERSIGHT AGENCY WHICH FOSSTON HAS. BUT YOU HAVE TO GIVE THAT AGENCY POWER TO ENABLE TO ENACT UM, THESE POLICIES THESE WOULD
BE STEPS IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION OF ENSURING TRUST AND LEGITIMACY IN ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT. AND IS THERE EVIDENCE THAT PRIOR TO RELEASE POLICIES
RATHER THAN CASE BY CASE DECISIONS IMPROVE PUBLIC CONFIDENCE AND TRUST? I CAN'T COMMENT DIRECTLY ON THAT. I HAVE NOT SEEN THE RESEARCH LITERATURE THAT SUPPORTS
EVIDENCE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. THAT SAID, THIS TYPE OF PROACTIVE TRANSPARENCY I THINK UH CERTAINLY LEADS US IN THE DIRECTION OF UH. TRUST AND LEGITIMACY IN.
POLICE BECAUSE AS WE'RE ROUTINELY TOLD BY POLICE ADMINISTRATORS, THE MAJORITY OF POLICE OFFICERS ARE GOOD PEOPLE DOING THE RIGHT THING. THEREFORE WHEN THERE'S A BAD
POLICE OFFICER DOING SOMETHING BAD POLICE ADMINISTRATORS SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY FORTHRIGHT IN PROVIDING THIS DATA IMMEDIATELY TO THE PUBLIC SO THAT THEY CAN SHOW THAT THEY ARE WEEDING OUT THE BAD APPLES,
AS IT WERE, TO ENSURE THAT THE MAJORITY POLICE OFFICERS REMAIN GOOD PEOPLE WITH INTEGRITY. ONE LAST QUESTION WHAT WOULD YOU RECOMMEND TO A CITY LIKE
BOSTON AND HAS INVESTED MILLIONS IN TECHNOLOGY BUT IS STILL WORKING THROUGH HOW TO GOVERN ACCESS AND RELEASE? I THINK MUCH OF WHAT WE'VE HEARD TODAY IS A STEP IN THE
RIGHT DIRECTION. WE NEED THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT AND THE POLICE COMMISSIONER TO COME FORWARD, UH, WITH YOURSELVES AND THE OVERSIGHT AGENCY AND SIT DOWN
AND HAVE AN AGREEMENT OVER WHAT TRANSPARENCY MEANS AND WHAT ACCOUNTABILITY MEANS AND WHAT THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS OF THE CITY OF BOSTON WANT THOSE THINGS TO MEAN.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, I GATHER TODAY FROM THE CONVERSATIONS AND TESTIMONY IT SOUNDS LIKE TO ME THAT THE INDIVIDUALS IN THIS ROOM ARE INTERESTED IN HAVING A
TIMELINE, UH, THAT'S ENSHRINED IN POLICY FOR RELEASING BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE TO THE PUBLIC. RIGHT. THE CITY COUNCILORS I THINK THEY SEEM TO BE IN UNIVERSAL CONSENSUS ABOUT THIS.
THAT'S ONE EXAMPLE OF OF PUTTING THAT INTO THE POLICY 405 OF THE BPD. SO TAKING THAT POLICY AND AMENDING IT AS A RESULT OF THIS TESTIMONY I THINK WOULD BE ONE
STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. AND AS I NOTED AND I WANT TO BE VERY CLEAR HERE. BODY WORN CAMERA PROGRAMS ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS THE POLICIES AND IN BOSTON IF YOU HAVE
POLICIES THAT ARE VAGUE OR DON'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT A TIMELINE FOR RELEASE OF BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE TO THE PUBLIC, WELL THEN YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET ANY SORT OF EXPEDIENT RELEASE OF BODY
WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE TO THE PUBLIC AND THE CITY COUNCILORS AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITIES IN BOSTON ARE GOING TO BE UPSET BECAUSE THIS SEEMS BASED ON WHAT I'VE HEARD, TO BE
INCONGRUENT WITH UNDERSTANDINGS OF TRANSPARENCY IN THE CITY OF BOSTON. THANK YOU, DOCTOR SNYDER, AND THANK YOU. MR CHAIR. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR CULPEPER. UM AND THANK YOU, DOCTOR SNYDER
. UH, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR REMARKS. DO YOU HAVE ANY, UM. YEAH. >> UM. THANK YOU FOR YOUR REMARKS. UM, I'M GONNA GO BACK AND
REVIEW REVIEW THE TAPE AND YOU KNOW, FROM WHAT I HEARD, UH, CLEARLY FROM YOU IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE NEEDS TO BE CLEARER TIMELINES FOR THE CITY OF BOSTON. UM, ESPECIALLY SINCE WE HAVE
THE OFFICE OF POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY HERE. UM, AND AND I GUESS THE QUESTION I DO HAVE IS AROUND HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE ORDINANCE FOR OPAC
? UM HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO TAKE A LOOK AT IT YET? UH OPEN OFFICE THE ORDINANCE AROUND THAT? UH I HAVE NOT YET BUT I SUSPECT THAT I PROBABLY WILL. I HAVE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH
SEVERAL CITY COUNCILORS AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, UH, WORKING WITH ONE. >> ANOTHER. MOVING FORWARD, UH, IN RELATION TO LOOKING. TO AMEND. >> THE. POLICY TO. >> BE CONSISTENT WITH, FOR EXAMPLE, A TIME RELEASE OF BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE. UH, BUT ALSO HELPING TO
STRENGTHEN UP THAT UH, TO ENSURE THAT TRUST AND ACCOUNTABILITY OR TRUST AND LEGITIMACY RATHER IN THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT IS IS MAINTAINED AND STRENGTHENED. YEAH, I WOULD LOVE TO BE PART OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE
I, YOU KNOW, MISSED. UH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR CABALLOS UM TESTIMONY AND WASN'T ABLE TO ASK HIM ANY QUESTIONS. BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT THEIR
INVOLVEMENT AND IN THE OVERSIGHT OF THESE INVESTIGATIONS, UH, NEED TO BE REWORKED IN THAT ORDINANCE TO, UM, REALLY LIVE UP, UH, TO THE
ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRANSPARENCY PART, UM, IN WHICH THEY WERE ESTABLISHED FOR. SO I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOUR FEEDBACK AFTER YOU TAKE A LOOK AT, UH, THE ORDINANCE TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE
STRENGTHENING IT AND MORE IN LINE WITH ALL THE OTHER REFORM THAT HAS BEEN TAKING THE PLACE ACROSS THE COUNTRY. BUT WHAT I'VE HEARD CLEARLY FROM YOU, UH, SO FAR IS UM,
THAT TIMELINES, UH, NEED TO BE ESTABLISHED UM, AND TO BE CLEARLY DEFINED UM, IN ANY PROCESS INVOLVING BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE. YES. >> YOU KNOW, I'M VERY HAPPY TO HELP SO WE CAN REACH OUT ANY
TIME. THANK YOU. IN PERSON. UM, COUNCILOR CULPEPPER. THAT'S DOCTOR STANDARD. WHAT'S THE NAME OF THAT BOOK? YOUR BOOK AGAIN? I THINK IT'S CALLED.
POLICE BODY WORN CAMERAS MEDIA. IT'S GOT POLICE BODY WORN CAMERAS, MEDIA AND THE NEW DISCOURSE OF POLICE REFORM. OKAY. >> AND THAT. >> WAS PUBLISHED WITH RUTLEDGE IN JANUARY OF THIS YEAR.
SO IT IS AVAILABLE. THANK YOU SO MUCH, DOCTOR SNYDER. COUNCIL WE'RE UP. UM, I DO HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION. UM IT'S AROUND, YOU KNOW, SETTLEMENTS COMING FROM ANY
CITY'S POLICE DEPARTMENT. UH, HAVE YOU SEEN, UH, SETTLEMENTS GO DOWN? UM, AND CITIES WHERE YOU KNOW THAT TRANSPARENCY OR THAT
TIMELINE HAS BEEN HAS BEEN CREATED LIKE BUT TRYING TO GAUGE I KNOW THERE'S YOU KNOW, THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTABILITY AND TRUST PART UM THAT YOU KNOW, RESIDENTS UM YOU KNOW, GET FROM
THE TRANSPARENCY SIDE. UM, BUT IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, CITY FINANCES, DO WE SEE YOU KNOW, THAT DOLLAR AMOUNT FOR SETTLEMENTS, YOU KNOW, DECREASE
IN IN CITIES WHERE THAT TIMELINE HAS BEEN CREATED? I MEAN, IT'S DIFFICULT TO SAY YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE LOOK AT BODY WORN CAMERA PROGRAMS ACROSS THE
UNITED STATES, UH, AS I NOTED WHAT THIS WHAT IS OCCURRED IS DOCUMENTATION OF POLICE USE OF FORCE, POLICE VIOLENCE, UM, WRONGFUL DEATH LAWSUITS AND IF
ANYTHING WE'VE SEEN SETTLEMENTS GO UP AND THIS IS I THINK REALLY PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE ON THE ONE HAND YOU HAVE MEMBERS CIVILIANS, TAXPAYING CITIZENS WHO ARE FUNDING BODY WORN
CAMERAS TO THE TUNE OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR. MOSTLY THIS IS IN RELATION TO DATA STORAGE IN LARGE CITIES LIKE BOSTON. AND ON THE OTHER HAND, WHEN THERE IS A WRONGFUL DEATH
LAWSUIT UH, AND RULING AND THERE ARE PAYOUTS TO UH VICTIMS FAMILIES AS THERE SHOULD BE THESE PAYOUTS OFTEN ALSO COME FROM CITY COFFERS. RIGHT. SO YOU HAVE TAXPAYING CITIZENS
FUNDING THE CAMERAS AND FUNDING THE PAYOUTS. ALL THE WHILE THE RESEARCH IS FAIRLY CLEAR THAT MOST POLICE OFFICERS, EVEN WHEN THEY'RE FOUND GUILTY OF WRONGFUL DEATH
OR OTHER POLICE MISCONDUCT, ARE RARELY FIRED AND VERY RARELY JAILED. SO DEREK CHAUVIN, WHO MURDERED GEORGE FLOYD IS AN EXCEPTION. UH, HE IS IN PRISON FOR HIS CRIME.
BUT WHEN WE LOOK ACROSS, UH, DIFFERENT FINDINGS WE OFTEN DO NOT SEE THIS AND THIS BECOMES AN ISSUE I THINK FOR A COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS FOR CITIZENS WHO ARE FOOTING THE BILL.
THERE ARE OTHER IDEAS WE OUTLINED, UH, A COUPLE OF BEST PRACTICES AND SUGGESTIONS AT THE END OF OUR BOOK. ONE OF THOSE WOULD BE, FOR EXAMPLE, REQUIRING POLICE
OFFICERS TO CARRY PROFESSIONAL LIABILITY INSURANCE MUCH LIKE WE DO WITH SCHOOL BUS DRIVERS, DOCTORS, PILOTS AND SO ON THE IDEA BEING THAT OFFENDING
OFFICERS SAY ENGAGED IN BRUTALITY OR MISCONDUCT IF THEY WERE DETERMINED TO HAVE ENGAGED IN MISCONDUCT FOLLOWING AN INVESTIGATION. SO I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT AN ALLEGATION THAT INDIVIDUAL
OFFICERS PREMIUMS WOULD GO UP OVER TIME. RE-OFFENDING OFFICERS WOULD NO LONGER BE ABLE TO AFFORD THEIR PREMIUMS AND THEY WOULD NO LONGER BE POLICE OFFICERS. THEREFORE WE WOULD HAVE NO BAD
APPLES ANY LONGER AND ONLY BE LEFT WITH GOOD POLICE OFFICERS . AND AGAIN, IF WE TAKE POLICE ADMINISTRATORS AT THEIR WORD THAT MOST POLICE OFFICERS ARE GOOD AND MORAL PEOPLE DOING THE
RIGHT THING, HAVING THEM REQUIRED TO CARRY PROFESSIONAL LIABILITY INSURANCE WOULD PRESUMABLY IMPACT VERY FEW IF ANY POLICE OFFICERS.
THANK YOU FOR UM THAT IDEA. DEFINITELY GOING TO DIVE INTO THAT. UH, BUT THANK YOU, UM, FOR YOUR TIME AND I'M GONNA GET TO THE NAME OF THE BOOK FROM OUR COUNCIL, REVEREND.
UH, CULPEPER. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, COUNCILOR ZERO. AND AGAIN, UH, I WANT TO THANK DOCTOR SCHNEIDER FOR JOINING US TODAY AND ANSWERING OUR QUESTIONS. UM, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO BE
INCLUDED IN THE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT STRENGTHENING UM, UH, OPAC AND AND SEE HOW WE CAN STRENGTHEN THAT ORDINANCE. SO, UM, I WILL BE SPEAKING WITH MY COUNCIL COLLEAGUES AND UM, BUT YEAH THANK YOU FOR JOINING
US. I WILL DISMISS UM, UH, THIS PANEL NOW. UM, I AM BEING TOLD THAT WE HAVE NO PUBLIC TESTIMONY. SO I JUST WANT TO I WANT TO
THANK BOTH THE LEAD SPONSORS, COUNCILOR CULPEPER COUNCIL AS WELL, UM, FOR FILING. I WANT TO THANK ALL THREE OF OUR PANELS TODAY, UM, FOR JOINING US. UM, AND I WANT TO THANK THE PUBLIC WHO WAS HERE AND WHO'S
TUNING IN AT HOME AS WELL. UM, FOR FOR JOINING US. UM, THIS HEARING ON DOCKET NUMBER 0638 IS ADJOURNED. THANK YOU. >> MR CHAIR. >> UH.
THANK YOU.