Good afternoon. Thank you all for joining. This is an administrative hearing before the entertainment division of the mayor's office of consumer affairs and licensing. Today is Thursday, December 4th, 2025. This hearing is being conducted pursuant to temporary
amendments to the open meeting law. That is what allows us to meet virtually. This hearing is being recorded and will be posted to the city of Boston's website. We are joined today by the executive director of the mayor's office of consumer affairs and licensing, Kathleen Joyce, and director of operations, Rebecca Fu. There's only one
item on this afternoon's agenda. I will read the item into the record. I'll then ask who is present on behalf of the applicant. You'll make a brief presentation regarding your proposal followed by questions by the entertainment division and an opportunity for testimony beginning with elected officials or their representatives.
There are any members of the general public who wish to testify, please state your name, address, and affiliation if any, and please limit your testimony to 2 minutes. The only item before the entertainment division this afternoon is Swingers Boss LLC doing business as
Swingers located at 777 Boilston Street. The application before the division is to add the live entertainment categories of disc jockey, karaoke, athletic games, mini golf, and automatic amusement devices from Sunday to Thursday until midnight and Friday to Saturday until 2 a.m. And we do understand that the
applicant since filing the application has withdrawn uh the application for karaoke specifically. With that, I will ask who is present on behalf of the applicant. >> Thank you, Secretary Green. Uh good afternoon, Director Joyce, Director Fu, Tom Miller from McDermac Quilty, Miller
and Hanley, uh in Boston here on behalf of the applicant uh swingers. Um as you have stated, the application here today is for uh live entertainment, specifically the categories of athletic events for uh mini golf, automatic
amusement devices, and disc jockey. Um just so that uh you're aware by way of background um swingers is a unique and fun concept that originated in the UK. Uh it combines mini golf which uh their term is crazy golf. So if you see any
marketing for uh this space or their others uh throughout the country um that's why it's called crazy golf. Uh they combine that with food and beverage um high quality food and beverage. Uh they use inventive course layouts uh and
they are themed after different 1920s uh era English countryside towns and they combine that with a carnival atmosphere. Uh in addition to providing crazy golf uh the concept does include u nostalgic
and uh interactive uh arcade games. uh they are an experienced operator uh as I've referenced with multiple locations in both the US and the UK uh including London, DC, New York and Las Vegas. Uh the majority of the business uh comes
from pre-booked events and functions uh including corporate and private events. Um the way this works uh is you book a tea time much like non crazy golf. Uh you reserve your time and space. customers typically come for about two
hours or so. Uh and then you know those those times are spread out over the day. So there are very rarely any capacity issues or crowding issues or cues along the sidewalk. Um, as I as has been stated, we're requesting uh the
categories of athletic events for the crazy golf automated amusement devices for the multiple uh arcade games and carnival style games um and a disc jockey. Uh as Secretary Green said, we did withdraw the um application the
portion of the application to include karaoke. Um the per you know the purpose of the automated amusement devices and the athletic events is clear. The reason for the DJ uh is similar to what the uh
board has seen across multiple other applications uh in the previous years. Um a DJ allows the applicant to control the music on a songby-ong basis. This allows them to adjust the atmosphere to in the
space to fit the mood and um the I can't think of a better word than vibe uh of what is going on in the space uh at the time. They can bring it up, they can bring it down. Uh it just allows it to be a more dynamic and enjoyable environment for their patrons. Um we
haven't applied for any uh live instrumentals or vocalists and there is no dance floor. Uh the applicant doesn't use promoters. This is not a nightclub environment. It um it is a just a fun group uh environment in a space in which
people come to enjoy uh enjoy the ability to interact with each other and that's hard to do when there's loud thumping bass. That is not the concept here. Um it is located in a commercial building. It is abudded by commercial buildings. This space is newly built out. It's still under construction. Um,
it was designed and constructed with noise mitigation in mind. Materials and insulation were chosen to uh and incorporate to mitigate any unnecessary sound emanating from the premise. Additionally, the windows that are located at the premise uh don't open and so we're not going to be um there won't
be sound emanating out in that that way. Um I I know you have a lot going on and I know you have questions. So, at this point, I will turn it over to you guys to answer any questions you may have. >> Thanks, Attorney Miller. Um, and thank you for joining us today, Mr. Is it
Sepatelli? >> First try. Well done. >> Okay. Um, so this is new concept to me. I don't I think this is our first Well, we have some indoor golf things, but this sounds um like a like you said, takes it to the next level. Um,
>> yeah, this this isn't uh the simulators. This is you're actually playing golf. So on a smaller scale. >> Okay. All right. Um so Dan, if you don't mind, can you um tell us a little bit more about your management and experience, your management experience
um here or other places? >> Sure. Uh started back in 2007 on Cape Cod, then moved to Boston. I've actually worked on Boilson Street previously. Uh, I operated the Rattlesnake Bar and Grill
on Boils Street. Uh, dating myself a bit back when it existed. I worked for the Will Cox Hospitality Group. Uh, then relocated to New York, did multi-unit management uh, in New York City for several years. About 10 years ago, moved back to Massachusetts, opened my own
restaurant on Cape Cod, and then May of this year, moved back to the Boston area to work for Swingers. >> Okay. Um, and I know with the application in today you included information about um, soundproofing and
um, noise mitigation. Um, should should there be issues that arise? Um, would you have an email or a phone contact for people in case we get complaints? Um, >> absolutely. >> Just never know how sound travels. Um, >> oh, you know,
>> 100%. All of our none of our windows open. They've all been sealed uh, on top of it. Other walls have been put over. So we put frontage on. So the windows are still visible from the outside but soundwise very much sealed off. The venues that we are above are also our
partners in the business. So Tavistock is our partner in this venture. So any issues they have with the noise, they will be able to contact me directly. But >> and Dan is Dan is incredibly responsive. So he you know we'll make sure the board has I mean you have he is the manager of
record on the the alcohol beverage license. Um so you have his contact information in that regard but we will also provide um this board with contact for Dan and the the space. >> Okay. Um so you might have covered this but I
have a list of questions that thanks to Rebecca. She keeps me on task going from one hearing to the next. But um can you go over the days of the week that you're requesting to be open? >> Um we are this this uh applicant is open
um you know seven days a week. Uh [clears throat] I believe it is uh noon to noon noon every day. Um the proposed closing hour for Friday and Saturday is two uh with midnight the other nights. >> Okay. And will the the golf games be
until 2 am? >> Yep. We're we want to offer that to that is the purpose for coming here. >> Okay. >> This isn't just big buck hunter in the corner. This, you know, the >> this is central to the concept.
>> Okay. Um uh Rebecca has noted that we would like a clear floor plan with the entertainment areas marked on it. Um >> we will provide that. >> Okay. See,
when do you plan on opening? >> As of right now, target is end of February. >> Okay. >> Will you restrict ages after a certain hour or certain days? >> As of right now, are we are 21 plus at all times?
>> Um, at some point, we may look to do like a family day. Uh, it wouldn't be like an 18 plus. It wouldn't be anything like that. It would be basically like accompanied with an adult. you could bring a child. It would be literally it would be marketed as family day. So, every under 21 person would have to be
accompanied by an adult. >> Okay. >> Sorry to interject, Dan. I think we want to be specific here about um I think as part of this entertainment license application, we should be applying for all the ages that we intend to welcome
into the venue throughout the year. I understand we're tending to open just 21 plus, but I think in terms of sort of communicating to this board and getting their approval, it should be the post Easter inclusive of family and uh the times associated with when under 18s are
allowed in the venue under 21s as well. >> Thank you, Richard. Richard is the uh VP of development for the for the applicant. Um I apologize. I realized I probably glanced over and forgot to introduce both Dan and Richard. Uh so I apologize in that regard. Um but yes,
while uh the majority of the focus here is uh an an afterwork and business crowd, um part of the discussion and outreach to the community has been at earlier points in the day prior to 5:00 allowing uh families and um not opening
it up to people in the community to come uh and and um enjoy the facilities because you know, as much fun as adults are going to have here, uh kids will enjoy it, That's what I was wondering. So from like noon to a certain time, will you allow
is the model that people under 21 can go in or it has to be with an adult? >> I think that is, you know, just for overall um supervision. Uh you know, this isn't, for lack of a better way, this isn't a school. So we're not the
the focus here won't be allowing kids to just roam free and come in and and play around. They will need to be accompanied, but they will be allowed in. uh earlier in the day before Thanksg they're they're not babies the late staff service staff and and staff are not babysitters so the kids will have to
bring their own babysitter >> okay but what about like you know four 18-year-olds that get out of high school early and then want to go play golf I'm just trying to understand the concept that has to be with an adult too
>> initially uh for our current plans as they sit now. >> Yes, they would have to >> and that's fine. I didn't know. Yeah. >> Yeah. The the days and times that we would go outside of our 21 plus would have to be very specifically structured as to what day and what time frame we
would eventually allow that. So, as of right now, as far as a group of 18 plus kids bu four 18 plus between 18 and 21 to just wander in on a random day of the week, we don't currently have a specific plan to allow that. Okay.
>> But it is part of the it is part of the u the model that we are looking into that and seeing what the demand is uh for for that and it'll be part of um part of that going you know going forward. You know it's the the focus and
the the way this space is designed is uh for really for the professional and business community after work um and that type of thing. We, you know, while some kids may enjoy it, uh, you know, we're not, the marketing and the targeting isn't necessarily towards them, but we are definitely considering
how to incorporate them in this premise going forward. >> Okay. A few more questions. Um, do you have cameras on premise? >> Yes. >> Okay. Mind >> approximately 20 inside and two outside. >> Okay. >> Provide that in writing to the board.
>> Okay. And if you can mark them on the floor plan, that would be helpful. >> Okay. Uh, do you have security staff? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, I'd like to request if you don't have it already prepared if you could submit a security plan, a
dispersal plan, emergency and operations plan, which that might all be one plan, but interested in um, you know, what the security plan is. Are there security um, I don't want to say security guards, security personnel at the door? um you
know what happened you know at the end of the night how are crowds dispersed um where are the emergency exits and in general like your operations plan including which would include things like how many staff are working on a certain night how many bartenders I
don't know what kind of what titles are of other staff um how do you handle RSVPs for the mini for the mini golf are they online in person both >> we three ways basically. We have walk up service that people can just walk in off
the street and book a time. We have online booking and then we also have a group sales team where the larger groups, groups of above 35 would book through our our sales department and be scheduled that way. >> Okay. Um
so everyone who comes has to have a reservation or no? >> No, you can't have a drink. >> Yep. You could Yep. You could just walk in right to the bar and have a drink. You're not required to play golf. You're not required to use any of the amenities. You can just come to the bar
for a drink without a reservation. >> Okay. Um and then I'm not familiar with the space obviously. Um can people reserve areas like you said for private parties >> spots. Okay. >> Yep. Our sales team that would be part
of the what they offer. >> Okay. I'm going to see if um oh one followup question about the cameras. How long is the security footage retained? Do you know? Does it keep it for 30 days to >> Yes, it's for 30 days.
>> Okay. >> Uh just a reminder, if there is an incident report an incident and the police respond to just automatically save the security footage, sometimes >> yes, >> the police don't get an opportunity to to go and do their inspection of an said
incident. It's usually within 30 days, but it's a good practice um to if something happens to um preserve that video. Uh Rebecca, do you have any questions? >> Uh just two. I'm sorry if I missed this. I know you had a community process back
in March 2024. Uh NAB sent a letter. Um was there any opposition to anything? all support >> the so uh NAB in their way did not oppose the project so long as we withdrew karaoke which we which we did.
Um and uh while we were not uh our firm was not part of the original process. Um it was our understanding that no aspects of this uh other than what was previously discussed were uh any ser questions were raised. So
>> no opposition we're aware of >> the automatic amusement devices are the arcade games like coin operated games and approximately how many do you expect to have? >> Do you have the exact number? >> They're approximately 50 arcade games.
Um sort of they're conventionally coin operated games but modern arcade technology doesn't use coins. uses tap cards. >> Y >> uh and our tap cards work off of a time play model. So you're not paying per play, you're paying for a 30 minute
window uh with basically all access to the games. >> Um I don't believe I have a the AED application, so I'll send that to you after. Um there's just certain information that we need about the games. >> Yeah, we've uh collected the majority of it and we will provide that.
>> Okay, perfect. And um just want to make sure that the inspection certificate includes because I the arcade game since there's so many. >> Um it should. >> Okay, perfect. Thank you. >> Thank you. If there are no further questions, I will ask if there are any
individuals who would like to testify meeting with elected officials or their representatives. >> Good afternoon, madame director. C Johnson with the office of neighborhood services. This applicant met with the neighborhood association of the back bay which is the active civic group in this area which provided their non opposition
on the condition that karaoke is not part of the application. That background our office defers judgment to the board. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. It does not appear that there are any other individuals present with us to provide testimony. I will just ask if there are any uh further questions from Director Joyce or Director Fu.
>> I don't. Thank you for um being with us today. >> Great. Thank you for hearing this application today and we look forward to answering any other questions you have. >> Thank you very much. The entertainment division will take this under adisement and will issue a written decision. This being the only item on this afternoon's agenda, the uh hearing is adjourned.
Thank you all. Enjoy the rest of your day. >> Thank you. Thank you.