eight folks who are going to be presenting. Okay, good evening everybody. Uh we're going to get started in one minute here. Okay, good evening everyone and thank you all for joining us for a design subcommittee meeting of the Boston Civic
Design Commission. Today's date is Tuesday, December 16th and this is session A of the BCDC design subcommittee. And in case you're wondering, there is no session B this evening. Uh, my name is Seth Ryman, deputy director of design review at the planning department. The planning
department continues hosting public meetings in a virtual setting for the health, safety, and accessibility of Boston residents. Before we proceed with the agenda, I'm required by the open meeting law to notify the public that this meeting is being recorded. Please turn off your camera and microphone if
you do not wish to be recorded. Tonight's agenda will include a presentation. Oh, I'm sorry. Uh for the record, the following commissioners are present this evening. Uh Commissioner Eastley, Garland, Bassin, Kim, Manf
Freddy, Mars, Nagiro, and Solano. An excellent full lineup this evening. >> It's going to be a long night. I'm sorry. >> Tonight's agenda will include a presentation for 275 to 279 Center Street in Jamaica Plane, otherwise known
as Mildred Haley Phase 4. Tonight's meeting proceedings will begin with a presentation from the proponent followed by comments and discussion from the commissioners and then an opportunity for public comments and finally a discussion of next steps.
So, a proposed project at 250 275 to 279 Center Street, Mildred Haley Phase 4, contemplates the demolition of one existing building and the development of approximately 191,50 ft of residential uses, 179 units, and
64 parking spaces into two new buildings in accordance with a 121A master plan, which was previously reviewed and recommended for approval by this commission. This will be the second presentation of the proposed phase 4 project to the commission following its
introduction at the November 5th, 2025 monthly meeting. As a reminder, commission procedures suggest no more than three commission meetings to review the project. To the project team, please note that your presentation is limited to 20 minutes. I will give you a halftime and
two-minute warning. And with that, I'll invite the project team to begin whenever ready. So, we will stop sharing our screen and ask you all to share yours. >> Great. Thank you all. Just to do a quick sound check. Can everyone hear me? Okay,
>> perfect. >> Yes. >> Great. We're just pulling up the presentation now. Let us know when uh that shows up for you. >> Can see it now. >> We'll see that. Perfect. Um, thanks everyone. Um, my name is Robert Smith Mendes. I'm a development project
manager with the community builders uh based here in Boston. Um we are the developer for this project. I just want to quickly introduce our team presenting uh this evening. We're joined by uh Emiline Gujek uh who's our architect from uh PCA and Amy Linen Mayor who's
our landscape architect from ground inc. Um we're super excited about this project. um a lot of uh there was lots of discussion, lots of good discussion from our introductory uh BCDC meeting. And so we're really excited to share some updates that we've made to our
design uh with you all this evening. Um and with that, I'll pass it off to Emiline. >> Hi there. Um as Robert introduced me, my name is Emiline. I'm going to briefly just address that we are showing a comments here that you've already seen
from us sending in advance from your team BCDC from the last meeting BPD BTD and the Mildred Haley C organization. Uh we'll be addressing Lamontine open space and the space between 4A and 4B the
parking area. Those are the two main landscape areas we'll be addressing. And then the interim condition when 4A is built. Uh and just as a reminder that we have we're showing you what we can control, which is the building design from Center Street and the views that we
can see and then uh the temporary plaza that we're proposing, but they're in control of of the demolition. So, we'll be in process with that, but we're addressing what we can in this meeting with you all here. And then in the building design 4A and 4B of various
different comments. And with that, I will pass it off to ground. Hi everybody. Can you hear me? Okay, great. So, just to update you on what has happened since we last met um in terms of the landscape. So on the left
hand side we have the plan that we presented at the last BCDC meeting and we really uh as Emiline mentioned tried to take into account all the comments that we heard from the city and community and the various stakeholders to try to um improve our design and uh
make it something that's very flexible and robust and a real um asset to the community. So on the right hand side we have our updated site plan and just to orient you again we have uh at number four the uh shared pedestrian and
bicycle path that runs north south and that's flanked by two different plazas. One at United Street and one at Center Street that's the more civic pres presence of a plaza. In between we have a variety of smaller social spaces. We
expanded the lawn. That was um a request that we heard. And we also were able to add a small splash pad that you can see at number six. We sort of shrunk the amphitheater seating um and path that uh
now goes between the splash pad and center street plaza um to accommodate for the splash pad and the broader lawn area. The interior parking courtyard and green infrastructure are largely the same, although you'll see some
adjustments to the permeable pavers and the streetscapes on the non-parking sides of 4 A and B are largely the same as you saw previously. Uh, next slide. So, this view uh from United Street
shows 4A in the entry plaza here at United Street. And one of the comments that we heard was, is it possible to make this plaza a little bit larger? And we looked into that, but in tandem with expanding the lawn space and adding the
splash pad, we're pretty restricted by the grade, which in some places is really maxed out at 4 and a.5%. So, in order to keep everything accessible and all these spaces really functional, we only have so much um
space for each uh for each uh level area to kind of accommodate. But we did try to lighten it up a little bit. We took the concrete seat walls out and added some uh wood seating, freestanding wood seating with benches and backs. We added some more playful components across the
entirety of the park largely in the form of large scale boulders and we sort of um widened the planting areas a little bit here. Next slide. So here uh you can see that this space
really does function as sort of a connector space where L Martin and United Street meet at the top of the green connector that goes down to uh Jackson Square Station. And so we really just wanted to create more of a porocity
and lightness to this and uh create a connectivity between the entry of the plaza at two and uh 4A so that they're kind of uh speaking to each other. Here uh we're at the lawn space that looking
back at uh the entry plaza 4 A next. And then sort of skipping past the expanded lawn area. And this is a a view of the the new splash pad that we've incorporated. And again, having some of
those playful boulder components and a more naturalistic lush feel to the planting. And to the left hand side, it's a little bit more of a shrunk down amphitheater secondary path area. Next, this is the updated Center Street Plaza. That's largely the same except
that we added an additional planter bed to the right hand side. And this is sort of in tandem with the plaza space adjustments at building 2 in the southwest corridor, but still functions as sort of more of a civic plaza space. Next,
so moving to the interior courtyard, we were starting to play with some different uh paving patterns that might be possible for the permeable paving. trying to have something that is playful and lively but not too much and something that also speaks to the color
schemes in the facade of 4A. And we also create added a few different cutthroughs um through the parking lot for pedestrian usage. And this is um a view of what it might look like if there were no cars there and it became sort of a community popup
event with food trucks and musicians, tables and chairs. It could be something a semi-private space for the residents to use. So to speak to what might happen in the temporary condition after 4A is built
but before 4A is built, we have um the plaza that's going to be part of 4B, but we definitely don't just want to have a hanging um nothing there. So, we came up with a concept that would provide a plaza that serves to be as an anchor point to um
the rest of the park. So, here we're thinking about using um lowcost materials, painted asphalt and pop-up planters and etc. And
then this is just a different view further up Center Street. um of the temporary park on your right and then the concealed parking with some sort of fence with the scrim on the lefth hand side. >> That's it. Go ahead. >> Great. Thank you. Uh and then this is
just showing you how we're continuing the articulation of the metal panel all the way around the building recognizing that this will be a prominent view of the building for many years from center street. So, we want to continue that really nice articulation all the way
around and hiding um this wall which will be relatively hidden in the future with a little bit of planting and brick patterning on the side here as well as the park and screening. And we have a lot of topography as well that um will be you know a little bit concealing uh
for the time being. This is a representation of the context. So on the top left you can see that we do have some awnings as well as height along center street that we're responding to. Bottom left you can see there is a threetory brick articulation. The middle
one there's five story sixtory brick articulation with an entry moment of a change of brick. And then the bottom right is meant to represent where we feel like this entry moment is too low in scale especially such a prominent entry for our project. and we want to
respond to that and really give Lamarine a special moment on Center Street and they have a difficult grade. They're also responding to uh we are as well. So you can see we did some studies here in response to some of the comments. The top left is where we were before with a
twotory full brick and this is what we prefer on the top right where it's lowered just slightly which we do like and feel it's more properly to scale. We also like the tall awnings and feel it's responsive to having this special moment on center street. And then on the flip
side, you'll see another view with Lamarine being also that moment. But we played around and wanted to see what that scale would do. So, if you kept the two stories here and lowered it down to one story in the center and then one and a half and then one story on the corner and it just feels like it's it's making
the building feel really tall on the upper stories and feels a little bit squished on the first floor. And then this is the flip side of the right hand side of looking at Le Martin Street and you can see like we just feel it it kind of unnecessarily cuts up the building.
um we feel that this you know this facade is is short enough that it feels okay to have the brick at one height along it and that this maybe doesn't feel quite adequate enough for this entry. Uh so we like that prominent moment but uh like to hear your thoughts
on that and then on Lamarine 4A on the other side I'll try and go quickly >> about halfway Emily. >> Thank you. Uh is it not 10 minutes? Yes, that was the 10-minute mark. >> Oh, thank you. Okay, I'll be I'll be
quick. Um, so we have the brick prominent corner and we think that's a nice moment that's in the neighborhood throughout and in Mildred Haley's master plan. It's a common occurrence and it really provides that nice entry moment of the residence. So, we wanted to keep
that. And then we added a little bit of cornice at the top. We also added a brick um flight band and band in the metal panel at the fifth story which we think helps break up the scale just slightly. We responded to the dark contrast comments and we really do appreciate those comments. We feel this
palette is much nicer. The building feels much brighter um and reflective of the neighborhood especially. There's a lot of deep reds and browns. So we feel like this is a nice balance of the neighborhood of across the street. Uh and then we have these kind of slots that break up the cornice and we think
also the scale of the building. Uh this is just giving you some more contextual comments um views. And I like this view a lot. It just is nice to see the brick at five stories. Us going down to two, three across the street and then one and 4A. It just feels like a very nice
playful reflection of the brick kind of um playing with scale and not uh not keeping it a consistent height across. And that's that main entry. Uh ask for courtyard views just to show you the articulation continues all the way around. We have the brick continuing
around and I will end it there. >> Great. Thank you. >> Fantastic. Thank you for such a concise presentation. Uh commissioners, I will turn it over to
you, please. So, commissioners, if you have uh any comments, you can raise your digital hand and we can take everyone. >> Could you just go back to a site plan just so we could talk to
>> Thank you. >> Here we go. Mick Young, did you want to make any comments or you just wanted to look? >> I'm just going to let others respond. I felt it was helpful just to see the structure. >> Um, I can I can dive in first. I don't
see any other hands right now. I appreciate the work you've done. I think we talked a lot about this is a great slide to be on where we're looking at that moment 11. I know we talked about the fact that
uh there are certain thresholds that BHA has for parking and the idea that you're thinking about it as a event space that center courtyard as both parking and event space seems like a really nice
idea. I think I hope it could be carried out in that way because I think it could be a really wonderful space to have these uh kind of neighborhoodwide. I would just continue to encourage you to be thinking about even the parking that's outside the courtyard and there's
any wiggle room there to add more open space in that would to kind of map left. I think that would be really great. I wanted to look at it was either slide 13 or 14. Yes, this one. Thank you. Slide 14.
Thanks for showing us the comparison. I am really kind of gravitating toward what I'm going to call option C, which is that second one from the it's basically the bottom left.
And I'm wondering if you instead of having the awnings and and because you have a grade change, those awnings themselves step down the sidewalk, if you had looked at having something that's a little bit more contemporary and had the awning actually
integrated into the architecture itself. I I like the pronounced corner. um you talked about it in the slide before as having that as a precedent that you are marking that corner which feels really good to
me. And then um and then I'm just thinking about that marked corner stepping down to that first floor plus. But where we're seeing that shadow line, you know, could that actually become uh an awning or some kind of an awning
cornice that maybe takes the busyiness of the yellow awnings that we're seeing and streamlines those a little bit more in a more elegant way and understanding you'd need to step that down as the topography changes. So that's one
thought and then on slide 16 at this view I just wanted to compliment you um as you're look as we're looking at the inset which is what we saw last time and then this new idea
um down below I you know the the top idea did look very I think the word was stripey And now it feels a lot more integrated where in fact your eye continues to focus on that corner element and also
the almost the podium that first floor and then the kind of remaining materials seem to complement those. So um I I think that this has worked really well. This was a really good test and a successful test. So I appreciate that.
>> Thank you. And just to address um your awning comment, uh we so we did uh and through cost exercises, it just became clear that it wasn't going to be very feasible to be able to do it across all the retail facads. So, we chose
strategic moments at our main entry points both at the corner and then at the back in our courtyard area and then um going back here, you can see we also are doing an entry hard canopy. So, we kept the fabric awnings. Um, we do like
them as well. We think they provide a moment when retail can bring in individuality, but it was really a cost. Um, >> okay. Or maybe there's a way they can be lifted a little bit. >> Um, it just feels like it's crowding the sidewalk and it's hard to tell because
the image is small, but looking at the kind of pedestrian scale there, it feels um kind of low. So, just something to think about as you're continuing to work on that. Jonathan, I see your hand. >> Yes, thanks. Um, and I, this is a great
slide to segue into some of my thoughts. I appreciate the the study uh that you put forth with the context showing, you know, I think just before this. Um, but I'm I'm with Yes, this one. I'm with Linda uh with the I'll call it option C
or lower left because the site that you're on seems to be needing to do a couple of things at once. And I think the podium study is really evidence that there in my mind it's not really a one-sizefits-all. In other words, what you have at the left corner of the
image, I think works very well for the left corner of the image, but then by the time you get to the right, the the podium relationship and how it correlates with neighboring architecture and seeming to want to have that response be being lower um as you're
stepping uh really seems to make sense and draw from the expression that's already in the neighborhood. Uh, so I'm very much a fan of and I think topographically as you're coming up center street, the the grade is climbing and so this stepped quality seems to
really be a natural fit with with uh how the the landscape and how the built structure is is currently working. Uh, I also see a host of improvements to the facade in general from the last round in terms of just color, um, detail
refinement, uh, the way that you've treated the corners. It seems like a lot of things have simplified in a in a positive direction. Uh and I I just applaud you for for doing that mainly with um really both buildings, but but namely here with 4B uh showing that in
the context. And if you could if you could just flip to slide four, I think it's is it uh where's the this one with uh 4A? Um I really like this corner piece. Um I remember the last time it was rather
stripey. I think the change in contrast has helped a lot. I would encourage you to go even further and perhaps without the cooler gray brakes that you have going down the I'll call it limestone color facade. Um because there's something really nice at the corner.
Obviously you broke the color contrast for the corner, but just the way the composition works where there's a a horizontal member that still allows there to be a cornice and then you really get the read of the punch windows. Um, I could see that language uh continuing over as opposed to the
I'll call it bay quality going all the way up and interrupting the cornice. It's just detail refinement uh and it's really subjective honestly, but I think you're really you're really on to something with it and I I encourage you to continue. But I do like uh what
you've come back with. >> Great. Thank you. >> Thank you, Jonathan. Commissioners, any other comments? >> Um, I can't raise my hand. I mean, look, >> we see you. We see you, M. >> I thank you.
I I also think that there have been real improvements to the landscape plan and simplifications, which I really appreciate. Um, I like both the simplification but also the flexibility that's been integrated into the plan. I
think that's really nice. And I also within that like how there have been integrated into this like smaller enclaves of different kinds of experiences that are more specifically shown like the the uh splash pad and
these other elements. I think it it's going to make for a really nice kind of backyard for this residential um use. So, I I think it's just come a really long way. Um I have a small thing that I just want to bring up. Linda kind
of brought it up first with the parking lot. I really love the idea that the parking lot could transform on the weekends into a kind of popup space. Um but you might want to consider using darker materials. the rendering shows white and you and I'm sure you all know
this uh with um oil spillage and stuff from the cars. You probably wanted to but I do really like the idea that you use a a kind of patchwork of different kinds of paving patterns to make something like really playful and fun.
It's a really nice idea. So I I feel really um confident with this new plan. So, thank you for all the work you've put into this. And >> actually, Commissioner, if I could ask a point of clarification for the project
team. Is this intended to be pvious paving or not? >> Yes. >> That's great, too. Yeah. >> Thank you, Mick Young. David Nagiro, and then David Manf Freddy. >> But quick question. Can you go through
the materiality for each of the buildings >> or Um I might go to the elevations. So they're largely metal panel um almost entirely and they have composite metal
details at the bands. So this has variations of um of panels in various widths of exposure along to try and highlight the the bay articulation but in a subtle way. And then um we switched to a red metal panel which actually is
like a a nod to 4B, but it's at the main entry in the inner of the courtyard. And then at the uh corner and the ground floor of 4A, that's where we are doing the brick that then climbs up the corner. Uh and then composite metal band
that separates the two within that hard uh trellis um canopy. That's the entry point of 4 A. And then at 4B, similarly, but uh the brick goes up a little higher and wraps like a strong base and doesn't
doesn't climb up. Um and then that's has some composite metal detailing in between at the windows as well. And you can just see that that wraps all the way around kind of we we like the approach of a very simple patterning the whole way around the building. Um but then
this one also has a subtle color change at the top floor to break down the mass. Uh and as well as we do have some Juliet balconies on our main uh pedestrian thorough affairs to help the the scale feel more residential. >> So is the the red um metal panel in this
above the second floor? >> Yes, the red and the um kind of gray bronze those are both metal panel. >> And are those do you have a vertical expression on that? Yes, I think there's a
I believe we have an articulation in the appendix. Oh, nope, we do not. But I can zoom in here for you a little bit. So, it's it's primarily vertical on 4B and then um horizontal mostly on 4 A.
And they're using the same exposures just in a different way. >> Is this like a is it a corrugated type of >> Exactly. It's it's a morren at the moment. Okay. >> We're still kind of studying which ones will be successful.
>> Okay. if that helps. >> So the vertical if you go to the vertical one um on the uh 4B. Yeah, one of the questions on the detail. I I do like it as Linda and u
Jonathan had mentioned the stepping I think is nice to kind of break it up. I think that proportion was uh of the two stories and the four and the one. I think the proportions are nicer with the five in between as it steps down. It kind of elongates the the facade a bit.
The thing about the mor and just a heads up is just the detailing of the length of the panel. Um and you're going to get a horizontal in there. So just trying to think about, you know, how that makes that uh additional line in the facade if
you want to really express that verticality. I was wondering whether it made more sense to go horizontal with it, but uh with the corrugation it may make more sense vertical. >> Yeah, I think we incorporated it. Yeah, it depends on what height the brick was.
But here there's a slight detail um at the horizontal that we're incorporating in when we have to break it up. We're hoping to only have to do it once um with the lengths, but still working with the with MREN on that. >> And you're going to get uh what kind of
setback of the window are you going to get off of the mor? >> Uh it depends on the width of the panel. I believe it will be about 4 in though to get in line with the the sheathing um to be a flange face. >> Okay.
>> So, that'll get us a pretty nice depth um because we're trying to play with different uh depths here and then um you know different layers underneath to to push those out more. >> Okay. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Thank And we'll definitely refine that with the energy model as well to see what, you know, what we get, what's better. >> Thank you, David. Uh, David Manf Freddy. >> Yeah. I I will just um I'll be the fourth to say I think this um vertical
organization is the best of your four alternatives for all the reasons that that Linda John uh Linda John and and David has have already said. I think it's actually very um very well thought out in how uh the building meets the
grade and how the stepping corresponds to the street. I I this is you've done some really nice things here. Um and uh really important improvements to where you were. I think what you're doing with the
panels, uh also there's a I didn't realize those were metal panels. Uh I was going to ask you the question David asked. I thought that was brick. Um I like the what you're doing with the panel. You've got different types of panels. I mean different dimensions of
panels, but you've had you've got very nice restraint uh in in color um and and uh the the very subtle manipulation of the vertical and the horizontal.
Sometimes um in the same building or in the same facade, other times um manipulating them from from building to building. Uh, I I think I I I really like the improvements. I think you've done a really nice job and um
congratulate you on on refinements that uh will elevate this um uh to a to a higher level of of uh of design that I I I congratulate you for.
>> Thanks, David. Laura, I see your hand up. I wanted to talk about two things. One is the linear park and then I wanted to talk about the interim conditions. So if we could go to the plan and perspectives
of the linear park. Actually it's probably easiest to talk over the perspectives if you don't mind. There and by the way thank you. You did a huge number of new perspectives and that's really helped quite a bit. I think
generally that the moves that were made are um really strong. Um one thing I wanted to talk about is the boulders and I'd like to hear a little bit more about how you chose like why
boulders and why in the forms that they're shown here. So, I think that it's something that kind of brings a softness and a contrast and a playfulness without it being sort of,
you know, a sculpted concrete or metal. It can be a little bit flexible in terms of if it's used for seating. They also function to kind of direct the flow of traffic. Like here we use them to try to help filter people down through the
central path instead of cutting across the planted areas. And then similarly at the splash pad, it's something just feels sort of more um more of a natural space which is something that you don't
get in the city. the the actual sizes and shapes would be dependent on what we could get, but um at the same time just kind of like you can sculpt with it and there's a little bit of regularity while still having a
feeling of enclosure and heft to it. Um I just think that it fits well in a number of different contexts and kind of creates a design language as well throughout the the site. So, I know that helps. >> It does help. Thank you. Um, and I think
it's a really smart idea to introduce a different material like this. Um, because um, you know, urban settings can feel really stiff and I do think that there's a playfulness about this. I I would ask whether or not this is the
right form of stone. And the reason I say that is because of the urbanity of the space. And I'm gonna check with Linda. Linda, I can draw, right? >> Of course. >> I I've been batted back once or twice.
So, um, so I'm wondering instead of the instead of these round boulders whether or not you should do some irregular blocks. And the reason I'm suggesting this is that they do give a little more
opportunity to start to make spaces where people can sit and face in different directions >> versus this where everybody's kind of facing forward. >> And I think that um having that, you
know, language kind of at the top and then in the lawn and then in the play area is really lovely. It's a it's a very smart idea and you haven't overdone it. Um, which I like, but you you might think about whether or not that's the
right form of material. And the other reason I say that is some of these uh like in in cities, I think it's like every space, every surface, right, can serve as um a place to sit, right? And these are
buildings with a lot of people in them. and it's a very dense neighborhood and I think that the more chances you can give for people to gather in those kinds of spaces the better. And then um could you go to the perspective um that's from
Center Street. >> Oh, sorry. This one. >> Yeah. And you know, I wonder if you shouldn't in if you shouldn't add some stone to this area, you know, whether it's the, you know, flatter boulders or
whether it's more blocky material. But I think it would be nice to kind of have this tumble over. It's almost like a like a um kind of terracing in a in a fountain or terracing in the landscape
where you can give a little more character to this like for instance you've you know changed this pretty um pretty uh you know dimension stone there and I wonder if it wouldn't be better to
just have a little more playfulness there like you could imagine and um you know making let me see I'm trying to clear you know maybe this could end up being a space that you know has
more chances for um for seating um particularly on this public side that's a really big a big space and it's you know people watching in the city is fascinating and so I think that the more you can do that the better. Um so that's
those are my comments generally otherwise I think you made some really smart moves. Um and probably um like to have a bigger discussion on the interim condition.
Yeah, that one's great. So this is a little different. This is a shade structure that would be built. >> It's something that we Yeah. that we're thinking about if it was lowcost um that
we could have as a temporary component potentially. >> Yeah. And you know, it's it's kind of interesting. On one hand, you could say, well, this space bleeds out too much into that location, but I wonder if you
couldn't do something um with the topography where this is raised a little bit more so that you have sort of this crosssection that goes like this out to the plaza. So that this
is higher than what you're showing now. And it's actually kind of a form slope so that it stops. Oh, I should say this is a section. Um, so that it kind of holds that end of the space. Um, and maybe you can kind of
dot some trees in there or something. But I I feel like the front fills out just a little too much. But I also don't want to be anything like a evergreen hedge or you know anything that that um
I think detracts from making this feel like a whole space which you know as an interim condition could be could be nice but I think it might be worth the investment on that edge to think about maybe doing
something with the topography um you know, overlaid by, you know, trees and they could be, you know, small large shrubs. Um, so it's not too much of an investment. And I'll just throw out, you know, sort of the scale of like um uh
witch hazel, you know, >> where it's you can still kind of see through them, but um you know, they and they add something in the seasons, but um so that's that's kind of my comment
there. I get that you don't want to spend a lot of money here that um you also don't want to make a space frankly that people get too attached to and are upset when the building has to go in. And so I think that it's it's important
to just do something subtle but really hold that space and make it feel like it's bigger um than it is. >> And and that's that's really it. >> Okay. Thank you. Those are all all good points. >> Thank you, Laura.
Uh, David Hassin, >> thank you, Linda. Um, I uh I was really curious to listen to all the commissioner comments and I I must say I I agree with all of them. I really appreciate uh the presentation and I I
agree with everyone that a lot of progress has been made. I too um you know I'm very sensitive to the the opinion of the folks who've worked so closely on the project but I I have to admit that I too uh like the stepped
base. Um if you don't mind going to that image for a moment. Um, I think I like it in part because I think of that part of town as um having a lot of uh life
and incremental architecture. Um, and uh the the buildings that this is replacing are are quite monolithic. Um, and so, uh, there's a looseness and a aggregated quality, uh, to the buildings that the
stepped base creates. For that same reason, I I also like the, uh, cloth awnings. Um, in part because I think that they will probably not all be yellow. um they will probably represent, you know, different tendencies and that
that feels to me a lot like Center Street, you know, like the the the character and scale of the street. Um my uh only comment on the building, um so again, I'm I'm I'm with Linda on the
lower left version. I think that, you know, given that that wasn't your preferred and you've probably spent a lot of time thinking about the other, I do think that the seams uh between the steps um which uh hit the ground um are
something to study maybe a little bit further um uh relative to the um the field, right? you know, there's sort of the the the field of facade with the with the um pattern of windows and and uh French balconies and those show up in
the seam, but they're one step higher and but they're one step lower at the one below. And you know, maybe that's fine. Maybe it's okay for the architecture to remain, you know, strong and consistent across that facade. But I
think that you're setting up a bit of an incremental uh stepping in the facade and those those um joint moments might be an opportunity to explore a slightly different expression or maybe there
aren't French balconies there or or they align or don't align. So just something to it's a it's a detail but something to look at. I think that I very much appreciate on the other building. Um I I was not someone who disliked the
stripiness, if you will, of it, but I think that you have navigated that very nicely by maintaining um the vertical vertical rhythm and then with the introduction of th those cornice moments and those those bands. um it just feels
very locked in and um uh uh into the neighborhood and just offers a little bit more detail. So I think that that's a a big success um in terms of the evolution. Um so I and I I I I think
I'll defer to the my landscape colleagues on on their comments relative to the landscape. So, I think you've you've um you've done great work and I very much appreciate the fact that you gave us an opportunity to look at options that you were considering. Not
everyone does that and and um um and I hope you're open to um the the the sort of enthusiasm that exists for, you know, one of the versions that you've de developed here. do think it just I understand your concern about the height
uh that's expressed of the building from the the um the the one story but I don't know I think um I think that can be um I think that can be okay and and I I think that again I I come back to that issue of the seams you know maybe if the if
those panels of red material are understood to be stepping as well as they come down the street um that may mitigate that concern. So, uh all in all, I think really nice and um um
that's it. >> Linda, I'm wondering if I could pick up from a comment Laura made about the stone. If no one else has any comments. >> Yeah. Do you want to do you want to have that perspective brought back up? >> Uh yeah, sure. I think what I I think
it's a really good point, Laura, and it's reminded me how hard it is to achieve this. Um, so I think Laura, you brought up a good solution. Um, if you prefer, Amy, if your team
prefers to go with a more biophilic approach and have more naturalistic stones, >> it is hard to achieve because you are waiting till you get to the quarry and see what what's there, what's available. You're not going to have the budget to
handcarve stones. And so I would just say as a commission maybe we just say that that this team works with staff to commit to some notion of a kind of natural stone language that has a kind
of you know rough condition and that it's really um part of the process of overseeing the project. Um because I do worry like early on in my career we
would do these drawings like this and then you'd get these tiny little boulders if you lift it up to the contractors and you know this Amy and so we know you won't do that but I think that would be something because it does feel like a really big character piece of the landscape that you would want to
make sure that you're achieving what you want especially for this population who's really going to benefit from this place. So, >> that's my only point. And um anti-skate boarding, >> but I just want to say that because you've got a lot of like long bench
services and you've got this whole residential population there. So, please just watch for that. It's an easy solution. >> And thank thank you for saying that, Mick Young, because >> the the lines that I drew were more about rhythm. And I think it could be
done with natural stone and I think it could be done with blocky stone. Either one. >> Yeah. I think the blocky stone is a more of a sure thing because you know what you're getting. You know how they're cutting it from the quarry. And then the natural stone is more of a risk but also
is possible. I've seen it done. Um, so as you're going through your construction process and value engineering and everything like that, I would advocate for if you can't afford all the stone everywhere, just make sure you have it here. You know, you know,
Tanner Fountain, right? It's one of my favorite places in uh the whole Boston metropolitan area. So, I think uh this could be, you know, a really a gift to this community. >> Hey there, landscape architects. Did you ever mix them?
>> Mix the blocky with the natural. >> Yeah. >> Oh, that's tricky. >> Yeah. >> Oh, Laura, you have? Okay. >> Just asking. Just asking. >> It is tricky, but >> it's tricky. You just go to the quarry and you're picking stones. That's really
what you're doing here. And so, >> well, you're just Yeah. >> Right. Like you tag trees. >> You tag. Right. And so often you're selecting things that are remainder pieces and they're the interesting pieces, but I don't know how staff would
oversee this. We just want to make sure >> as a commission I think this is Laura what you were saying is that you get something like this and you're not ending up with something that looks a little uh rustic. I I like the I like the suggestion that Amy and Emiline and
other would would have a position on it, right? That this is what we're this is what we want to achieve and there will be some variation in it depending on what we find. But but I like that idea, >> right? Or are they reclaimed stones? Yeah, >> there's plenty of places where you could
pick these things up. So there's a lot of beautiful narratives that this this brings up. Commissioners, any other comments? I think this is going to be our
last subcommittee where we invite inerson public comment. So, that's something to kind of note and Seth, we'll turn it over to you to um see if there are any public comment. >> Thank you, Linda. Uh, a reminder that
starting January 1st, 2026, the commission will limit live public commentary to a project's introduction. Members of the public interested in submitting comments to the commission are encouraged to do so in writing by emailing them to bcdcboston.gov
at any phase of the project's review. However, until then, this evening, we will continue to take live public commentary. So, at this time, we invite any members of the public in attendance who wish to contribute public comments to raise your digital hand, and I will call on you. If you are calling in by
phone, dial star9 to activate the raise hand function and star six to mute unmute yourself. Please state your name and any relevant project affiliation information. And please keep comments to two minutes. Okay,
I am not seeing any. Actually, I am. Um, Allison Plutinis, can you unmute yourself? Allison, if you're there, we're not hearing you yet. You should have the ability to unmute.
>> Oh, there I am. Thank you. Thanks, Seth. um related to the splash pad and um the uh rocks. It just I do remember from the public meeting people um uh you know uh
families would be sitting there and uh families need um different kinds of seating uh benches with backs and armrests as well as uh simple rocks. So, um just a thought about that. And right
down the street, uh from this site, uh on Terra Street, the mayor's office of housing is doing a project where there are a lot of um reclaimed um granite boulders that they have to move the uh
Terrace Parker Street project. So the city of Boston has their own quarry site in in in one sense because they they will have an inventory of granite blocks. Um I am wondering about the uh interim space and how long that process
is going to be before uh 4B is built and how um I don't know a lawn it just it seems kind of complicated about um approving 4B now and how long it
actually might be before it gets built. Um, but thank you for letting me comment tonight. Thanks. >> Well, I can Oh, sorry. >> I was going to ask if either Robert or Emiline wanted to >> Yeah. >> respond to Allison.
>> Yeah. Um, in terms of how long the intermission will remain is up in the air. Our current schedule assumptions, right, are that, you know, assuming building 4A gets awarded by the city and state next summer, then that
building would start construction. We're targeting May 2027, right, and finish in about 18 months. That'll put us in right um late, you know, 2029ish just about. Um we expect 4B to close and start
construction sometime in 2029 after you know receiving a receiving a 2028 funding award. So that could mean you know that there's an interimm condition of and this is in an ideal world um that the interimm condition you know period
could last roughly 6 to 12 months between 4A finishing and 4B breaking ground. But again it could be longer than that kind of depending on how the funding cycles go for these two buildings. And we we typically don't take more than one public comment per person, but
Allison, since you were very efficient and got your uh comment in under the two minutes, if uh you have another 40 seconds, if you'd like to uh ask a clarifying question. >> Uh well, thank you. And I forgot to ask this before, but um I thought there was
a question about the uh take down of the uh mature trees on the site and I didn't see a slide about that. Um is was that presented earlier? Um so >> how many trees are being taken down on
the site? >> So we did not present um on that in this round. We did mention it in the community round. We are going to in the inter room condition, we're hoping to hold on to four of the largest mature
trees um which will be a real benefit. And I need to double check about the number that are going to come down. Um >> we have 21 21 trees. Yeah. So, and we're replacing 45 trees. So,
>> and I'll just say for more added context that there is an existing building that's there on the site. Um, it's an existing public housing building um owned by the BHA. That building will be demolished before TCB even steps onto
the site um to start construction. um right >> the BHA and you know they're looking to you know JPDC to manage the demolition of that building that's kind of that's outside of our control at this point. Um
so kind of depending on how that demolition goes what some of the post conditions of the site will be left uh for when we step onto the site. So there is, you know, there are variables there um that we have to work through. Um and
you know, we're in constant coordination. TCB is in constant coordination with our um co-developers and the Boston Housing Authority. So closer to the time of when that, you know, building will be demolished, you know, they'll be seeking out a GC.
they'll come up with a construction management plan um where we can better, you know, learn from their team uh what their plans are for preserving trees as uh you know they take that building down.
>> Okay, thank you. >> Okay, does anybody else have any public commentary? Seeing no more hands raised, I will close the uh public comment period and turn it back to commissioners for thoughts on next steps.
>> Thank you, Seth. I I think this is a really wellprepared presentation and appreciate that you took all of our questions into account and um and also that you correlated those with some of the public comments you've been receiving along the way. That was really helpful to see show up in that first
slide. Uh, commissioners, I think this is a project that is slated just for one subcommittee. I feel like we had a really productive conversation. >> Do we feel like it's ready to move to a vote >> at full commission? >> I do. >> Great. >> Yes.
>> All right. So, I think those are our recommended next steps, Seth. >> Okay. So uh it is my understanding that the project is recommended for final consideration and recommend recommendation by full commission. Uh there are no provisos at this meeting
because there's no vote occurring but I think the proponent heard a lot of good feedback uh and some suggestions for further exploration uh to come back to a full commission with. So, we thank uh the proponent um looking forward to seeing you at a full
commission soon and would like to thank the commissioners uh for their time as always and particularly as this is our last meeting of the year. Um and on a high note here, thank you for all your dedication, time. It's been it's been a
heck of a year and uh 2026 is going to be an interesting one as well. Um and we'll be back uh staff will be back before you in either January, more likely February with a sort of roundup uh of 2025. A little retrospective some
of the research right continuing the data that we had accumulated right before we started some of the BCDC reform efforts so we can see how that played out uh over 2025 and uh look into the future for that.
And so I think with that, unless anybody has anything else, >> just to wish everyone happy holidays are celebrating this year and kind of thinking next year. >> Thank you. Bye everyone. >> Thank you everyone. >> Have a good evening. >> Thank you so much. Bye. >> Bye. Bye.