##VIDEO ID:_oLAo5t90M0## hearing the open public thank you for joining the Boston zoning commission public hearing the open public meeting law requires that I notify the public this meeting is being recorded Please be aware that an audio and visual recording of this meeting is being made we'll now take a roll call of the members present at the beginning of the meeting Miss Hatton present Mr deela present Mr Ms morawa present Mr Mah M Miller I saw so I'll wait area do you have audio present there we go all right Mr leth can you hear me we can oh okay Mr leth present didn't realize I was muted Mr Royo present Mr ostrich present Mr mcneel present Mr Woods present one less check for Mr Maher that we are expecting him see he's not here at this time but we do have a quorum present of Commissioners um for our 9:00 am public hearing um we will now take a moment to introduce have the interpreters who are present with us introduce themselves uh Cyrus if you want to direct them thanks Michael and we have everyone in tow so uh we'll start off with David and then go to Jesse good morning everyone my name is David Molina and I will be the Spanish interpreter for this meeting back to you sidos good morning than you good morning my name is Jesse Alam um I will be the mentoring in interor for today's meeting uh thank you terrific now we'll go to Joan and then Jardine good morning everyone my name is j I'll be the can interpreter for this morning's meeting um thank you s good morning my name is and I'm your interpreter your Haan crel interpreter for this morning's meeting terrific and then we'll finish off with new and Zen hello everyone my name is I'll be the Vietnamese interpreter for the meeting this morning thank you hello can you hear me yes okay great hello good morning my name is I'll be interpreter for today's meeting [Music] terrific the interpretation channels are now open so back to you Michael thank you Cyrus uh good morning again this is the 9 am. public hearing uh before the Boston zoning commission to consider text Amendment application number 527 with respect to Net Zero carbon zoning the hearing was duly advertised on January 8th 2025 in the Boston Herald in a Boston zoning commission hearing on proposed petitions the proponent will first present their case and are subject to the questioning by members of the commission only we are taking support and opposition at at the same time if you are planning to testify please take time now to verify that your computer microphone is active click the hand icon on your Zoom control panel this will signal to staff that you wish to speak when your hand is raised it will be blue if you are calling into the meeting and would like to testify please dial star9 to raise your hand when a call for Testimony staff will announce your name and allow you to unmute your microphone your webcam will not be active in an effort to accommodate all who would like to speak about this proposal each person will be given up to two minutes to comment commission staff will indicate when 30 seconds remain at that time please conclude your remarks so that the hearing may continue and others may be heard finally the proponents are allowed a brief period of rebuttal if they so desire will the bpda please begin the presentation good morning members of the commission um I think before the formal presentation I I'd like to just provide a few comments um my name is kairo Shen I'm the chief of planning uh and I wanted to just uh introduced the reason why we are coming in front of the board uh the commission for this Net Zero carbon zoning um this is an critical piece of our uh climate agenda for the W wo Administration and I just want to highlight three important um components of this Net Zero uh carbon zoning first it is the zoning that's going to lead to a transition to a low carbon future for both operational clean energy and building materials so a critical element of this is that it's not just about how buildings are built but how buildings operate the second thing is that this zoning will strengthen the city's goal of reducing carbon emissions across the building sector by ensuring new buildings are powered by renewable sources both on and off site and then third and maybe most critical in in terms of the reforms that we are doing at the planning department this zoning will align the article 80 modernization process by helping to create a more efficient review process and and set expectations and standards now in particular um this zoning will ensure that as we review uh proposed projects that we ensure that the tradeoffs that need to be made between design um and other kinds of components are um integrated with our thinking about the operations of the building so with that I would also uh want to invite um the chief of uh housing Sheila D Dylan to to add to the introduction thank you uh thank you so much kyos and it's great to be here with you all this morning for the record my name is Sheila Dylan and I'm chief of housing for the city of Boston uh but as importantly the director of the mayor's office of Housing and for the last two years the mayor's office of housing has been working with our development Community to um to really improve the standards of new construction affordable housing throughout the city we are requiring passive house standards and we've worked really really hard to retrofit many of our older buildings which is much harder to do uh certainly and more expensive uh to do this work uh to do this work after a building is built we are very supportive of net carbon zero uh because it's going to provide additional uh additional tools to ensure that our that Boston is developing in a way that is that is healthy and clean and going to meet our our climate goals this uh this zoning will help us to really understand the carbon emmissions from our construction materials and it will increase the demand and usage of clean energy so we we could not be more supportive of taking this next step with the affordable housing community there are several affordable housing developers here today that we anticipate will testify and they are they've been very very supportive of working with us on on this zoning uh change I I will say that uh the the city staff have done a wonderful job under understanding the additional costs associated with this energy usage and I want the commission to know that uh the mayor's office of housing when we underwrite affordable housing projects we'll be taking those additional but very manageable costs into consideration and the affordable housing community knows this so um we are not going to put something that we are prepared to underwrite to and prepared to fund so with that I do want to turn it over now to um I think is chief sweat going to walk us through the Net Zero carbon zoning proposal thank you thank you Sheila it's actually going to be me Oliver selers Garcia um environment commissioner no replacement for chief sweat but I'll do my best I will also be joined by Travis Anderson senior infrastructure uh planner in the planning department please move to the next slide so the purpose of today's um presentation um will be to follow up and provide responses to several questions that were raised at the last hearing when this was discussed over the summer and to present a lot of additional information and Analysis that was done um in response to those questions and also in response to a lot of the extensive Outreach and engagement that has transpired over the last six months with the affordable housing and Commercial development Community we do a very quick reminder of The Proposal talk about impact projections and then different compliance Pathways before recapping next slide as a reminder of this proposal it requires Net Zero operational emissions upon opening for covered buildings although there are some exemptions where there has been a step back in when Net Zero operational emissions must be reached for hospitals and general Manufacturing that is 2045 and for labs it's 2035 recognizing the unique energy and ventilation needs of those buildings The Proposal also inqu uh requires reporting on embodied carbon it maintains the current lead certifiable requirement there's no change to current article 37 and it applies to new buildings over 15 units or 20,000 Square F feet and additions of over 50,000 Square ft next it does not apply to Renovations additions of under 50,000 Square ft and change of use projects next the proposed timeline is a effective date of July 1st 2025 meaning that a project that applies with a project notification form submitted after July 1st would be covered under this zoning proposal once a building is an operation net zero emissions will be demonstrated and and compliance will be recorded through Berto we're going to go into a little bit more detail about what that July 1st timeline means on a typical development project timeline as well as what Berto reporting entails next slide as a reminder Berto is the city's program and requirement in city ordinance for all large buildings to get to net zero emissions no later than 2050 there are 13 different Pathways depending on building types with different emissions levels that recognize the unique features of these building types gradually reaching Net Zero by 2050 next as the foundation for Berto Net Zero zoning accelerates the 2050 Net Zero date as I mentioned earlier for a few for most building types with exceptions for manufacturing Healthcare and Science and Technology lab next there are different ways to reach net zero emissions under Berto and those are also the same strategies that apply to Net Zero carbon zoning buildings we're going to go into a little bit more detail on some of these later in the presentation but as an overview the ways to reduce emissions from a building are to reduce direct emissions so that means Energy Efficiency and low carbon building installing renewable energy on site purchasing renewable energy for the operation of a building and making alternative compliance payments payments that go into a fund that directly reduce emissions in Boston next slide so we're going to talk a little bit more about the timeline it's important to think about the timeline in two different pieces planning and operations we're going to go through a hypothetical project and see how the different steps overlay on top of the calendar with some of the major steps um both of planning and zoning and I'm also going to highlight the renewable energy components of the timeline because I think that is of most interest based on the feedback that we've received so for a project that submits a project notification form on July 15 2025 there will be energy modeling and Lead checklist and a preliminary embodied carbon analysis required upon submission I'll point you to the next step step two which would happen at board approval this is where there would be a net zeroc carbon acknowledgement letter filed this is a form letter which acknowledges the Project's coverage under the net zeroc carbon requirement although no specific strategy to reach that operational missions must be included at that point a building permit is granted later in 2026 and hopefully if all goes well the project is completed in 2028 at that point as you're familiar an energy model is submitted as well as a lead checklist and notably a Berto ID is issued now let's move on in the next slide to the operation part of the timeline the building is ready for occupancy at the beginning of 2028 following sort of a reasonable timeline for construction at this point is when Renewable Energy Service begins now we switch to compliance under Berto Berto Works through full calendar years so the First full calendar year of operation would be 2029 and Reporting the following spring so that means that on May 15 of 2030 is when demonstrated renewable energy or other emission strategies would come into play and be submitted into Berto after 2030 compliance occurred annually next slide I recognize that was a a quick overview but I hope you found the timeline useful um and additional information about how that falls into a realistic project timeline now we're going to talk a little bit about impact responding to some of the questions we've received there are different ways to think about how this proposal addresses um Boston's carbon emissions one way to think about it is is in the overall City emissions so to think hypothetically if all of the large buildings um proposed in 20123 had been covered under this proposal that would be equivalent to around 0.58% of Boston's annual emissions it might small sound like a small number but put it in comparison to waste for emission for example and that is the same amount as all of the emissions per year from Boston's waste moving on to the next slide another way to think about emissions is at the building level I want to recognize that over the last three years there's been a lot of changes um and Net Zero carbon zoning has actually meant different things when this first was proposed it was prior to the energy stretch code which has passed and the addition of the specialized stretch code which Boston opted into and so putting these things together we look at how they incrementally reduce emissions and bring emissions down to zero so if we take a building from say 2019 2020 a typical building the stretch code brought down emissions with Advanced energy conservation measures by approximately 35 to 45% with the optin specialized code which Boston adopted and went into effect last year with targets for electrification Readiness and some higher standards for um energy code that bring brought down emiss approximately 35 to 55% Net Zero carbon zoning which could be complied with strategies such as adding renewable energy or purchasing renewable energy would bring that back down to zero so an additional 45 to 65% what we're looking to do with this analysis is demonstrate how the different measures build upon each other and how Net Zero carbon has a substantial impact at the building level over its uh entire operation moving to the next slide it's also important to think about the embodied carbon component which uh both Chief Shen and chief Dylan alluded to I would say that analyzing the embodied carbon impact in Boston is not possible because we do not have data and that is exactly what this proposal is meant to do to collect information on what our impact is from embodied carbon which refers to emissions from manufacturing transportation of materials construction the energy that goes into making a building before it comes becomes operational we look to other cities to understand the potential impact looking at a case study from Vancouver that shows an overall 45% reduction using strategies that are actually targeted toward embodied carbon for example Mass Timber building reuse or low carbon concrete it's also worth noting that from a life cycle cost P from a life cycle perspective embodied carbon can be as much as 20 to 40% of a building's emissions over the course of its life so it's very important to think about this component as part of the zoning next slide I'm going to turn it over to Travis in a moment to go into the uh cost estimates that are part of our um analysis that is new here to discuss today but before handing it over to Travis I want to put all of what you're going to hear in a bit more context which is that when we focus on renewable energy we which is um what has been the largest um topic of conversation with our stakeholders and one of the things that we've been working most to provide additional context and answers for we have very high certainty that renewable energy costs will be going down for a number of factors but perhaps the most important is the renewable portfolio standard that is the base amount of renewable energy in the electricity supply for all customers in Massachusetts this is required by law to increase by 3% per year from 2025 to 2029 and 1% per year thereafter as you can see from the chart on the right Massachusetts is on an upward trajectory which means that any additional renewable energy either on site or procured in order to reach that zero point or 100% however you choose to look at it is necessarily going to be smaller and smaller so all Supply will be greener pretty rapidly over time meaning that the strategies that have to be used for operational emissions reduction will be filling a smaller and smaller Gap at this point I'm going to turn it over to Travis who can talk a little bit more about some specific case studies based off of actual buildings to give some context into how we project costs excuse me hi chairman Nicholls uh Commissioners Jeff this is David mAh uh I I've been on the line uh I just didn't want to interrupt I had some computer problems so I had to go through my uh through my phone which I hadn't done before and it's it's a little different but uh I've been on hopefully you can all hear me we can hear you and I noted your your uh arrival prior to the beginning of the presentation so thank you for joining us thank you back to the planning department staff thank you thanks Oliver uh thanks Mr chair Commissioners uh Travis Anderson senior infrastructure and energy Planner on the comprehensive planning team and I'm going to talk through as alliver mentioned some cost strategies related to the zoning so next slide please uh one thing to highlight is that these costs are dynamic in many ways uh driven a lot by the renewable portfolio standard that Oliver mentioned so you'll see these kind of declining curve lines that start to happen when we incorporate the renewable portfolio along with some of the cost estimates another key highlight is the buildings that we're going to look at are modeled to meet the specialized energy code so all the Baseline strategies are already kind of baked into the projects from the submission and modeling standpoint next slide please the first project that we're going to look at is uh within that smaller project range around between 20,000 and 50,000 sare ft it's an affordable multif family project about 52 units um as projected it was using around 200,000 kilowatt hours annually when we look at the estimated annual Electric Supply and delivery cost for this projects it's around $68,000 um annual for that first uh 20125 season um when we look at what is required to have this project meet night zero uh we can kind of focus in on two strategies at the top you'll see the mass class one Rex um if those were um needed to be acquired in 2025 based on current market um estimates that would be about $4,100 uh for that first year but when we look at how that declines over time due to the increased renewable energy in the grid that drops down to about $2,800 in 2040 looking at this from kind of today's perspective again those Mass class one Recs about $4,100 in additionality uh or about $78 per unit um when we look at Boston green 100 which is the municipal aggregation program which is a great strategy for projects of this size to adopt into that is even lower to procure renewable energy so about $2,500 or 4,800 or $48 per unit um in that 2025 again I just want to highlight that annually these costs will go down based on the grid getting cleaner and the the reduced need to um procure um more more and more renewable energy uh next slide we're kind of jumping up in scale here again looking at another affordable housing project uh this is about 100,000 square feet 94 units this project is projected to use about 600 kilowatt hours 600,000 kilowatt hours annually looking at the mass class 1 Rex uh in 2025 that would be about $17,500 again sliding down to 20 2040 uh that would be about 12,000 um in total for for the purchase of renewable energy credits when we look at the estimated annual Electric Supply and delivery costs for this project without Renewables and no on-site PV this project comes in around $204,000 for that annual cost again looking at the 2025 cost projections uh for Mass class one rex that 17,500 or $186 per unit when again looking at the uh Boston green 100 um municipal aggregation program that cost is even lower at 14,300 per un uh per year or $152 per unit again just kind of highlighting how these cost projections can be dynamic and under Berto project teams will have the opportunity to kind of shift strategies so they might choose to do the mass class one Rex one year um and then opt into the bcce green 100 the next uh next slide this is actually a no cost example so looking at a smaller project um we see and recognize that at a projects around the 23 units kind of smaller scale there's more opportunity to incorporate on-site Renewables uh this project in particular has the opportunity to put a pretty large uh solar array on its roof uh cost the annual electricity usage for this project was estimated to be around 120,000 27,000 kilowatt hours annual but when we look at the projected solar production uh that's available to the uh particular project that's 138,000 kilowatt hours so they're actually meeting or even exceeding um The Net Zero requirement on site um and this would be for a no cost solution and based on the the agreement or terms um for the PV um that actually would could incorporate additional savings uh based on their net metering terms um also just to highlight this project if we had no uh Renewable Energy Incorporated to it would be about $43,000 for that electric supply and delivery cost as estimated uh next slide so when we took a closer look at the overall impacts on affordable housing and multif family units uh we saw uh again this kind of dynamic range um occurring in cost per unit so for Mass class class one rex that was about 0 to $220 um in that first year of 2025 if they were operational then um and then again sliding down into 2040 we're looking at that cost range of 0 to $170 per unit um these costs are increase of renewable energy from around 0 to 8% overall next slide now I want to kind of dive into a little bit more of the commercial side of things um this is a mixed uh use Tower um office residential upon its f it came in at about 1.6 million square ft it's around 320 residential units this project is unique and that it incorporates both uh fossil fuel and electricity um to meet its um operational energy demands um from the estimates it was looking to consume about 2.5 million kilowatt hours annually about 20,000 mm BTUs of gas usage um this project estimated its annual energy cost cost um through it through the modeling analysis is about $2.1 million um and that would be before renewals and acps I just want to highlight since there is fossil fuel usage Incorporated in this building uh this project would uh be making alternative compliance payments um and when we break this down overall uh at a square footage basis before Renewables um and acps uh we're looking at about a129 per square foot once you add in the alternative compliance payments uh those are about 38 cents per square foot um and then the mass class one recks come in about 18 cents per square foot also to highlight again we're seeing that this project has no on-site Renewables we often see this kind of with within buildings in the downtown footprint but also just showing how that sort of grid getting cleaner and that Dynamic um kind of Glide path can occur to cost reductions also want to highlight there's these are likely more sophisticated project teams so looking at Power purchase agreements with additionality um that's totally qualified under Berta was a great option for um a project like this um and just to highlight that there are again there's many Dynamic ways in which a project can approach uh renewable procurement uh next slide uh this last example is a high ventilation lab uh looking at this one I want to point out that it's subject to the phasin requirement so as of now the 20 25 to 2030 compliance year it would be set to that 5.1 kilograms of co2e per square foot per year um so looking at that in terms of mass class 1 Rex uh 20125 cost about $155,000 um but since this project um will phase in to zero over time it's a slightly different um cost analysis so we see that uh cost of Rex going toward uh $590,000 um in 20 240 but that's because they're needing to meet that that zero limit in 2035 um when we break this down a little bit um more toward um total cost of first year it's about $155,000 um incorporating both the Rex and alternative compliance payments for this project um but again this is very similar to the other commercial project where more sophisticated teams uh opportunities for power purchase agreements and sort of more Dynamic um renewable energy analysis can be undertaken um and happy to answer any questions uh later in the deck but I will pass it to back to Oliver great thank you Travis for walking us through those examples and I will just repeat what Travis mentioned which is that the examples that you've seen um are really a um representative sample of different types uh different real projects we focused more on affordable housing because that was um where a lot of the questions in attention and you know tighter margins are um and have given a very useful sense of putting the costs of um sort of the the operational costs into context so moving on to the next slide Travis just showed us several numbers and there's a few different things to keep in mind as we further interpret what that means um for compliance with net zeroc carbon zoning one thing to keep into account and which I'm sure everyone here knows is that there is quite a bit of uh vola ility in um electricity costs across the board whether that is um you know under any any sort of Regulation or not um on the building side so if we look at the last five years there's been uh over a doubling and then return back down to Electric costs projects are already absorbing these big fluctuations in um operational costs this is this has been the nature of electricity costs over the last 5 years and Beyond if we look back at the study that Travis mentioned first the um 50 or so um unit affordable housing project that would mean that their just straight electricity costs could have been as high as 51,000 or 21,000 at its low that's a range of around $30,000 which I will note um to put into comparison with the additional 2500 that renewable energy would add on top of that well within the range of the fluctuations of electricity costs next slide the other thing to point out is that renewable energy costs in uh Massachusetts and New England that qualify for Mass class one Rex which is um basically the the standard for renewable energy have been dropping um and remaining low over the last 5 years I will note that anyone would be right to ask how do the federal um changes um what do they signal for the renewable energy market and I want to note that no one has a crystal ball on either renewable energy or Energy prices that's the world that we live in but um we've we have seen that there is quite a bit of um certainty that the renewable energy Market in Massachusetts as it is projected to grow is quite um On Solid Ground um for the next four or five years with wind energy and other projects that are contracted permitted and financed ready to go and we we project that that is going to continue um in the renewable energy Market in Massachusetts next slide so we've talked a lot about the different costs and some of the different strategies at a high level I want to go one level deeper now on some of the renewable energy and Emissions reduction strategies that all work uh both for Berto and of course for Net Zero carbon zoning these are the same strategies um that are um the sort of associated with the c costs and projects that Travis went over so um of course there's on-site renewable energy which has the benefit of having uh a very direct impact on reducing operational costs and with solar for example can have a payback of as little of as four to six years but of course not right for every building site I want to mention Boston Community Choice electricity the city's renewable electricity aggregation program whose product of 100% renewable energy would qualify um and it's worth noting that in the past four years the green 100 um rate has actually been um equal to the eversource default rate for residential so it is quite an affordable option you saw that in the comparisons that Travis mentioned there's power purchase agreements which do require much more um sophistication in structure and Contracting but they are long-term agreements for renewable energy that can be located outside of New England uh a noteworthy example is the one that uh was announced late last year with Harvard MIT and Mass General Brigham as off-takers with some additional capacity for future off-takers Massachusetts class one Rex as I've mentioned um are also um renewable energy that can be purchased at any duration um on the on the market and also through longer term contracts alternative compliance payments are not a renewable energy um strategy but they are a uh emissions reduction strategy the alternative um compliance payments go into Boston's Equitable emissions investment fund which is uh which gives um grants through the Berto um review board to projects that reduce emissions elsewhere so that the timing for example of a particular project and its um you know uh Readiness for renewable energy might be better shift Ed to a project that is in need of decarbonization and renewable energy elsewhere I'm happy to say that this is a fund that is in operation and having significant impact already with the first three Awards uh announced late last year to three affordable housing projects for decarbonization projects and measures uh solar and as well as um decarbon a decarbonization project that leverages outside State funding for greater impact Berto which is the compliance mechanism under which um all of this takes place and is verified for zero emissions is very flexible in terms of how all of these are used in combination and over time year-over-year next slide another factor to take into account is uh that we have been working on um closely with our stakeholders to gain feedback and understand what is most useful is um impact on um you know Capital expenses and underwriting I will repeat what Chief Dylan said at the start which is understanding um the very important role of the city in affordable housing development um the mayor's office of housing is uh prepared to continue to take into account all costs including that zeroc carbon zoning in Project underwriting on the commercial side our our stakeholder engagement has indicated that there is not as much of an impact on under writing next slide I want to spend a little bit of time on this slide before closing it out to talk about one of the most important things that has come out of our extensive engagement over the last six months which is you know a a validation of some of the cost estimates and the importance of reaching these goals but also a a genuine message that the city needs to be a partner in implementing these renewable energy strategies and so I couldn't be more happy to share just a highlight of some of the things that we are already doing and commitments to what we will be doing going forward to really meet that need we have um qualified vendors who offer Renewable Energy Products we have been providing and creating um renewable energy procurement education and guides as well as webinars that have taken place in the past and there will be more in the future to help property owners who have not been um traditionally in the renewable energy Market to start doing so but there's also a lot more to come we're looking to do improvements in the way Boston Community Choice electricity is able to provide data so that reporting can be simpler for example in a residential project with lots of meters we will also be looking in our next procurement later this year to raise the bcce cap to allow larger accounts for large buildings that for some reason may have single or smaller um accounts to be able to purchase into this very easy lowcost option we will also be exploring how we can use the city's bulk procurement process both from renewable energy through Rex and also power purchase agreements to make this an easier and lower cost option by having the city be an intermediary and we will continue to provide technical assistance on renewable energy and the energy Market which we were doing already with some of our affordable housing Partners I will note that this is a uh extremely important part of Berto compliance for existing buildings we estimate that approximately 15% of Berto covered buildings will be purchasing renewable energy in 2025 and by 2030 that will be 70% of buildings so the new buildings that are covered under zoning are part of a much larger shared Endeavor for um renewable energy in Boston as well as applying several of the other Berto methods that I mentioned earlier we move on to the next slide as a as a bit of an aside before closing out I think it's it's uh worth noting that the city of Boston of course is um very much committed to doing this on our own building portfolio we have an executive order that was signed uh two years ago that goes beyond the specialized stretch code um requiring no fossil fuels in um new buildings and Renovations we are also very much taking advantage of the on-site renewa strategy with geothermal and solar on our properties and also we are actively pursuing renewable energy Supply contracts also some news you may have heard last year looking to procure um wind energy from some of the new development that is happening in Massachusetts to meet our goal of being 100% carbon- free electricity by 2030 finally to close out I want to take a look back on our next slide here at all of the information and additional analysis that we've done to put this into the context of um the questions that were raised both at the last hearing and also through our um stakeholder engagement um as you've just heard me say we've heard loud and clear that renewable energy com procurement may be new and complex for some building owners particularly in affordable housing and um the city will continue to provide technical assistance and procurement support we've also heard for example that those cost estimates that Travis mentioned of approximately an increase of only zero to perhaps 8% in energy costs um are critical in affordable housing and as you've heard Chief Dylan say the city will Factor this into the um underwriting costs of affordable housing um we've also heard a need to understand how Net Zero carbon zoning fits in with Berto I can only say it as simply as Berto compliance is net zero carbon compliance and that means that it comes along with other components of Berto such as hardship waivers for projects covered under zoning and we've also heard to close out a lot of support for the embodied carbon reporting requirement a lot of consentant around Boston being at The Cutting Edge and starting to look at embodied carbon as part of our shared goal for carbon neutrality so that concludes our presentation and um we're happy to answer questions um myself and Travis but also um members of the planning and environment team the Chiefs who were here earlier and um chief sweat our chief climate officer I believe are here to help answer questions thank you great thank you uh Oliver thank you members of the planning environment and housing departments um who addressed the commission today um if members of the public have questions you can begin to raise your hands at this time though we will first take uh comments and questions from members of the commission only followed by public comment um we do have one comment Oliver um from a member of the Commission in the chat so Aisha may be having um uh sound issues so I'll read that into the record and seek a response from the um from the city team uh the federal government makes decisions on policy specifically trade and permitting who are we partnering with if federal government is not on board and how does this affect the inflation reduction act the US government has committed to reaching net zero emissions by 2050 but has that now changed I think the simplest thing to point out at this stage is that we also have very great um partnership and um jurisdiction at the state government um and coalitions of States who are for example behind the renewable energy the offshore wind projects that are um uh in development now um understanding that the federal government obviously has a um a large impact on future leases but the leases that have already been signed which I alluded to ear earlier really put us on more solid footing for the next several years thank you as Joan takes down this presentation we'll see if other Commissioners have uh comments or questions um Drew nobody else is saying anything so I guess I'll open um first of all I appreciated um caros and uh Sheila's comments at at the beginning that made me feel a little bit more comfortable about some of the issues I'm concerned about but I still have some questions um one of them I'm going to follow up on Aisha's uh Point um and the uh the federal government I'm not even sure I can say the government the president is telling us he doesn't like wind energy and all this um what uh if we're going to be in this kind of En environment for the next four years and who knows how long um after that uh why are we feeling I mean yes we have some leases out there but uh why are we feeling so so confident that the the pricing on this will remain as you've uh um analyzed it as for Oliver and Travis sure question but this is one of them I'll I'll take a stab at it first I think as as I've mentioned we um are pretty confident that the amount of renewable energy that is under contract and is part of the States targets as well um is on um on a good path to be able to be um constructed I think one of the the most important things for looking at that from our perspective is what has been um already permitted but I I will say again no one has a crystal ball or no one has ever had a crystal ball on prices and one of the important things to um note is that with respect to Net Zero carbon zoning that is just one piece of the many different things that um the city and the Commonwealth are doing to reduce emissions overall and if you know if we are finding ourselves in a very different situation in terms of the um accessibility of renewable energy and its development this is a larger problem than just Net Zero carbon zoning we're going to be looking at a lot of the other um State uh mandates as well as Berto and that is where the opportunity um for flexibility is built into the Berto process to really make changes overall um that affect the you know all large buildings in Boston and um where we will certainly be cognizant of what is achievable at um any given time in the market so if you uh just to follow up on that if you have um Berto in place which I think is great um and um that's going to require certain things by 2030 so that you'll have a large number of of um of these facilities that will be at uh uh net carbon zero uh why do we need this I mean why do we need to have uh and I mentioned this in our uh briefing session we have lots and lots um uh for developers and and I'm we'll step back for a second I was really happy to hear that that there are ways of taking care of affordable housing but we need more housing up all at all levels being built in Massachusetts and in city of Boston um what um uh if this is going if if everything's going to happen here why do we need to make it even more complicated for developers getting through it the the process costs there's a lot of money embedded in that process as well as all the other kinds of costs that you you've talked about why if it's going to happen anyhow why don't we just let them do uh meet these standards why do we need to to go this this extra step why do we need to use zoning yeah what what I what I will say and I will um see if any of my colleagues want to add on to that is that this is really the the climate strategy is to take you know as many bytes of the apple as absolutely possible and with the um you know changes in the building code and energy code that we mentioned you know buildings are being built at a much closer much closer to the finish line and able to reduce those emissions in a much more manageable way with some of the strategies that we mentioned and so really when we look across the board of where there opportunities to keep reducing emissions this is this is one that comes up and what I will say is that I hope the explanation that of the timeline and how this merges with with Berto um really demonstrates the sort of simple way that this slots into the um existing um process and that also um you know Berto which would cover these buildings one way or the other it's just the same compliance mechanism there so that's my whole point if it's going to one way or the other it's going to happen why do we have to put this additional layer of work on developers that's not free they have to pay a consultant $30,000 $50,000 whatever it is why do we need to do that if it's going to happen anyway that's that's one of my concerns but I'm not sure that that the that we're really answering all the cost questions here I'll get to that in a second um but maybe you could just answer that Oliver yeah I mean I I think what I would say is that it um anyway is um is is a question of when and I think what Net Zero carbon zoning is doing is really uh advancing the when to now when it is when it is uh most feasible you told us that that that 70% of uh we're going to be 70% of this is going to be happening by 2030 and that's the time that all this would be coming into place this way they feel like this is sort of like uh we're uh um putting extra burden on people to to uh have to follow this additional law we're just it is so complicated to do development in the city do we really need something that isn't really going to end up giving us very much that's the main point thank you okay um uh one more question um on the not sure I totally understood these slides on the slide that that showed the building the large building that was uh both commercial and uh residential it showed that it was uh costing something like 30 cents a kilowatt hour and then you have this additional burden at the end that's about a130 $129 whatever it was those are huge numbers that the other stuff wasn't as huge a number but that is a huge number currently I mean I have an electric vehicle and when I look at what I pay for it isn't that much less than than for gas because we already in a high cost environment in Massachusetts where it's costing you know in the 20s to 30 cents uh a kilowatt hour for it and now you're talking about adding a129 I have concern about that Travis do you want to um pull up that example is there anything more to I didn't understand there that would be um slide 20 I believe Joan yes so this example um was based on modeling and cost analysis that the team had provided upon filing um so these costs were based on the energy modeling estimates um and that $129 per square foot actually came in through their um model cost and again I just want to highlight that $129 is before Renewables and acps so that would just be the operational energy cost for this um particular project um again when we look at the additional uh procurement for Mass class one Rex that's 18 cents per square foot um and just to clarify that the acps while not renewable um would be um required for this project just because they have the fossil fuel integrated and that's about 38 cents per square foot and that's more of a static cost as of now um the acps are um estimated at um they're $234 per metric ton of CO2 e uh currently um and that's been uh it's actually a great way for project teams to do some kind of forecasting um because as of right now um those project those uh costs are pretty static for acps so I don't know if that helps Drew but um I'm not I I don't think it does or maybe I'm still not understanding this right now if I to pay something we have these very expensive costs in Massachusetts compared to other states I won't talk about other New England states but other states in the country and um we already have that problem and now we're talking about doing something that's like four times uh yeah about four times as much that's a Hu and you're telling me okay it's going down it's going down from what it what it would be I remember this is based upon some other comp comparison things are going to the costs are going to grow no matter what um and then and we're comparing it to that but in reality let's compare to what Today's Energy costs are this is very significant it's not like Oh see it's just a129 it's a129 per square foot yeah this is this is based on today's cost just to clarify those so as Oliver has mentioned we don't have a crystal ball into what energy costs might be in the future but what we are doing is doing this comparative analysis based on what we know now so that way it has bit it's more of an Apples to Apples comparison because we actually have the embedded cost of you know Mass class 1 Rex at $40 per megawatt hour we know what the ACP costs are we know what the current um energy costs are for electricity I also want to highlight teams of the size probably would be using a third-party vendor for electricity procurement and those costs um we might not know because there could be a different contractor terms included in that so this is really based on um what we see for um Boston Community Choice electric or whatever this um project team had estimated per kilowatt hour in their analysis um this is way over 30 cents a square foot or 25 cents a square foot a129 per square foot we're having trouble get building new buildings because of course in in Boston we haven't seen much building going on and there's a whole lot lot of other reasons for financing costs uh labor costs Etc but this is making it even worse we every time we do something here we add we add significantly to the cost of building in the city and I'm very concerned about that as I said before we need housing not just affordable housing we do need affordable housing but we need all housing and this is adding a huge additional cost that's what my concern is Travis can I come in for a second absolutely commissioner I think there's a misunderstanding of this slide so the the a129 per square foot is the is the estimated energy cost not for compliance with this just the estimated energy costs for a building of the size per square foot we're trying to give a comparison point to what the additional cost is for various options the the the $130 is what the estimated cost is just to buy energy today so that's not the additional cost that's context number for the additional either 18 cents a square foot or up to you know 38 cents a square foot so it's not factors more it is material I'm not you know I'm not at all challenging that there's a potential material cost here but it's not factors more than the energy costs already but currently we're not paying I don't pay a129 for my energ uh per per square foot for my energy cost this is the estimate from this actual building submission based on you know this building proponent this is isn't per kilowatt hour this is per square per square foot right okay um this is Aisha commission uh commissioner M I just have a quick question real quick um back to Chief Dyan uh real quickly uh Chief did I hear you say that you would take you know as people are building into consideration um different aspects of costs Etc yes someone said it so you know when we underwrite affordable housing projects as many of you know we're looking at the revenue that's coming into an affordable housing project against expenses and determining how much a project can support in debt and then we shape our subsidy or right size our subsidy based on that analysis so we will be looking at um a developer's energy use here and if there is a premium to comply with this zoning then we will be adjusting those numbers um I don't anticipate it it impacting the underwriting dramatically that would be putting in a lot of additional subsidy but if we need to put in add like a small amount of additional subsidy to have a developer comply we are prepared to do that so yes we will be taking this under consideration when we're underwriting thank you very much Chief I think Michael had a hand up Michael then Jamie I actually Michael I'll I'll wait till the uh business session okay Jamie um just to go back to um your question Drew I I I I think the reason for the zoning and all of you can step in I'll give an example that's a little um concrete um no pun intended um we just moved into an office uh building we bought purchased an office building uh here in Boston and we were looking at kind of retrofitting some of the it's an it's an older building classy and we were looking at retrofitting um it used oil um and we're looking to retrofit uh the the HVAC but we're also very eager to move in and we really wanted to move in as quick as possible um we went through with the contractor what uh retrofitting two heat pumps would be and we just realized you you you can't do it if you're occupying the space um I think that's what um we're doing here today we're getting all of that work that needs to be done um out in front during the development phase um and that's that's that's I think what the purpose of this zoning is is um is to get all of these requirements upfront when it actually it's probably more cost-effective and um and makes a lot more sense um um that those are my I think I I'm trying to answer your your question commissioner left thank you other questions for the city at this time hearing none we will move forward with public testimony again as mentioned before please raise your hand on Zoom if you are interested in offering testimony you're on the phone you can indicate your interest by uh hitting star nine um please you will have two up to two minutes and no more than two minutes to offer your uh your commentary uh commission staff will let you know when roughly 30 seconds remain um please pay attention to the speakers uh that come before you if you are offering the exact same or quite similar testimony um please abbreviate your remarks and uh and note um you the the similar testimony that's come before you commission staff will lead us through the order of public testimony okay we have quite a few uh so John Woods John go ahead hi uh my name is uh John Woods I'm the executive director of the Altin Brighton Community Development Corporation I'm here to speak in support of the Net Zero carbin zoning proposal since its Inception in 1980 the Alon Brighton CDC has created a portfolio 553 apartments that provide deeply affordable and stable housing to over 1100 humans who live in the properties in the last five years the ausome Brighton CDC has embraced the efforts to improve the quality of life for our residents and pursue a strategy of meeting the burle standards well in advance of the fast approaching deadline our organization has been extremely successful in utilizing the most cuttingedge technology to incorporate state-of-the-art building techniques into extensive rehabs to some of the oldest housing stocks in the city these efforts are now paying dividends as our residents move back into their homes that are a air sailed super insulated intelligently ventilated and provide both Heating and Cooling using all electric energy sources to provide a healthy and extremely comfortable environment to raise their families and participate in the all Brighton Community we've also embraced a net zero carbon strategy on a new construction project recently approved through the city's zoning process we've tapped into the innovative efforts now underway through the mayor's office of housing seek solutions to the challenges of eliminating fossil fuels from our buildings despite the additional upfront cost of incorporating the new technologies we're getting comfortable with the understanding that the improvements will pay significant dividends in the long run and at the same time helping the effort to meet our shared climate goals I urge you to support this net zeroc carbon zoning proposal as a way to ensure the health and safety of the generations that will live in our city of the future thank you okay next is Christopher Whittier Chris Christopher go ahead thank you good morning members of the commission my name is Chris whiter thank you for allowing me to speak on behalf of tishman spire in support of the Net Zero zoning uh initiative tishman Spire is a vertically integrated real estate developer and operator with 69 million square feet of property across the globe we have been operating in Boston since 1997 with a local team of 40 individuals Who oversee our 4 million s foot portfolio in the city the recent events in La were a shocking And Timely reminder of the threat facing cities if we do not take meaningful action to shift the trajectory of climate change as corporate citizens of this incredible City and stewards of Boston's built environment we believe that Net Zero zoning is a positive step in that direction but also encourage further collaboration with the development Community to ensure that the City can meet its sustainability goals while also promoting responsible growth in our experience developing the Enterprise research campus which is nearly all electric and will be carbon neutral on day one we've encountered unique challenges that we believe can inform future collaboration a few of which I'll briefly discuss first in the process of procuring renewable energy credits which are necessary to reach net zero even in an all electric project we were able to achieve significant savings through a virtual power purchase agreement agreement in partnership with Harvard on their campus-wide renewable energy project for smaller projects or operators who cannot transact at a similar scale the cost of purchasing similar Recs may be prohibitive especially in light of the price increases we expect to occur ahead of Berto fines 30 seconds Chris uh we encourage the city to study further ways to aggregate demand or facilitate collaboration amongst proponents um we've also uh discovered that the cost of operating commercial kitchens can be 30% more expensive when they're all electric uh which significantly puts local wbe business operators at a disadvantage compared to national operators thank you Chris thank you okay next up is Anthony bz Anthony go ahead uh good member uh good morning uh members of the Boston zoning commission um I'm here on behalf of councelor Sharon Durkin um just reading a short um statement um so as city counselor for Boston's District 8 I write to express my strong support for the proposed Net Zero carbon zoning amendments to the Boston zoning code the urgency of addressing climate change cannot be overstated by aligning our zoning code with the latest sustainability practices we will ensure that new developments and major projects are designed and constructed to minimize carbon zoning emissions I commend the planning department for its leadership and advancing these critical zoning amendments I urge my fellow city leaders developers and community members to join me in supporting the adoption of these changes thank you for your consideration of this important matter okay next up Bill Grogan bill go ahead hi my name is Bill Grogan president of the planning office for urban Affairs a nonprofit affordable housing developer affiliated with the arch dasis of Boston over our 55 years of existence we've developed over 3,000 units of housing including 1500 of those uh affordable units in the city of Boston and we're committed to sustainable development and Net Zero carbon initiatives we have a long history of working with the city of Boston's mayor's office of housing on the development of affordable housing and we've been working with them around the zoning amendment to ensure that affordable housing developers are not met with an undo burden that places critical housing development at risk we've worked closely with the uh director Dylan uh in the city to review the cost of these options and build them into the capital stack of projects and we appreciate moh's understanding of the need that any additional operating cost will be factored into the underwriting process for these reasons we strongly support the zoning Amendment that's before the commission today I'd also like to make one additional comment just around resources um you know unfortunately we're in an environment where additional Federal resources are unlikely so we'd like to continue the call for conversations at the state level to provide additional subsidies to help support additional costs and we continue to stand ready to partner with the city to address these issues and concerns and we appreciate the city's uh support for for affordable housing and taking these costs into consideration so again we strongly support this zoning Amendment thank you he thank you Bill next Julie Clump Julie go ahead morning Commissioners uh this is Julie Clump I'm a vice president of design and building performance for preservation of affordable housing or POA um we have 13,000 units in 12 States um nonprofit owner operated um we have um over 500 that we've rehabbed in Boston over 300 that we've built new construction and close to 200 that are in design and construction um all of our new construction is passive house um before it was a um required um we've we've pursued pacif files we have about 15 projects across our portfolio um and we so we we fully support the zoning Net Zero zoning a couple just a couple considerations um one is that um the size buildings that we built and a lot of times the urban setting um the chance to get to Net Zero will not happen on site um we've seen a real Improvement in the production of PV arrays um but they're still not there in terms of us getting to 100 % production on site so we will be definitely buying off-site Renewables which is a cost um the embodied carbon accounting I think we'll all get there um I'm not sure that it's out there now so um any possible incentives for that accounting um would be appreciated again we we support the measure thank you okay next is Dennis ber Dennis go ahead thank you uh my name is Dennis carlberg I'm the chief sustainability officer at Boston University I just want to comment on how Boston University gets to Net Zero carbon emissions for new buildings number one renewable energy in December of 2020 bu wind began generating power for Boston University it is designed to generate 205 million kilowatt hours of electricity a year through a 20-year power purchase agreement that generates electricity to match 100% of Boston University's electricity each year number two building for net carbon zoning Boston University's 345,000 squ Foot Center for computing and data Sciences which everyone knows is the Jenga building is the net is a net zero carbon building it uses geoexchange system for heating and cooling there is no gas line connected the renewable energy for the the building is sourced from the buin project as well as solar on Campus number three embodied carbon over one quarter of annual building sector emissions comes from building buildings to address this problem the center for computing and data Sciences reduced its embodied carbon by more than 6% simply by changing our concrete mixes and extending our cure times for non-time critical pores we did this without additional costs to the project and number four lead we're glad to see that lead remains part of the article 80 process as lead provides the criteria to address a broad set of sustainability strategies that extend beyond the building Beyond building decarbonization thank 30 seconds status thank you okay next is Abe Abe menson go ahead uh thank you uh Commissioners um AB menen I'm with Samuels and Associates U principal with Samuels and Associates development um we are the developers of several mid-rise and high-rise electrified and Net Zero carbon lab office residential and hotel buildings in the city uh we support the city's uh goals in moving uh uh Zer net carbon zoning forward uh we also appreciate some of the changes that have been made along the way uh the phase in and other changes um um we are comfortable that the operating cost premiums for zero net carbon buildings um while they are the two exist are manageable and small in relation to the uh energy um Savings of these buildings uh we think the city prepared a very thoughtful analysis with a lot of detail on operating costs that we've reviewed um we do have a couple of suggestions um as um I think Travis or Oliver may have said a couple times no one has a crystal ball there are a lot of assumptions and VAR variables related to renewable energy pricing uh that are Beyond anyone's ability to predict or control uh in order to ensure that the policy is successful we suggest some periodic reviews uh of the um clean energy Market uh to ensure that the right options are available um we believe that the class one uh wrecks are going to be the likely Choice uh uh developers and uh little concern that that market could overheat as new Supply um is threatened by federal policy and Berto and znc ramp up so we suggest some review of that and uh creation of Alternatives if um if those markets um heat up and we support the city's efforts to evaluate the new PPA structure uh as one way to mitigate uh that concern thank you and next is Christina mcpike Christina go ahead thank you good morning um thanks for the opportunity to provide testimony and support of the Net Zero carbon zoning initiative my name is Christina mcpike I'm vice president of energy and sustainability at wind companies which is a 52-year-old family founded and operated mixed incum to family housing developer owner and manager are headquartered in Boston for decades when has pushed the envelope and sustainability we've developed over two megawatts of solar we've implemented decarbonization efforts across our portfolio of existing and new construction properties our entire new construction pipeline is all electric and will be passive house certified we applaud the city Boston's ongoing leadership and the advancement of high performance low carbon design and construction Boston is TR a national Global leader um and something we should all be very proud of um on behalf of wind companies um I support the the net zeroc carbon zoning initiative it complements the new specialized optim energy code requiring all electric pacif certification for new buildings the ordinance will have little or no impact to building design as code already handles that as as discussed already but the ordinance will accelerate Berto it'll reduce emissions it'll encourage more detailed data benchmarking and it'll expand the adoption of clean energy procurement all worthwhile and necessary outcomes while we do support the passage of the zoning initiative we also encourage ongoing dialogue around certain improvements which we think are necessary to mitigate Rising costs both upfront and operational and to ensure its Equitable implementation I'm going to run through a few of those firstly similar to 30 seconds Christina okay we'd encourage a delayed compliance timeline for affordable housing especially as we see how investment tax credits shake out and solar for all um we encourage technical assistance grants to support portable housing developers to understand and purchase re um given the complexity of passive house energy Stars ready homes and other certification programs we would suggest removing lead certifi ability to help reduce article 37 soft costs and um I'd encourage city council to look at what New York City has done which has introduced and passed a tax abatement for compliance with their local law 97 thank you Christina thank you uh next is sth my apologies go ahead uh thank you uh dear Commissioners my name is sunit John I'm a deputy director and head of real estate at fway Community Development Corporation we are pleased to extend our strong support for amending the Boston zoning code towards adoption of Net Zero carbon zoning Fenway CDC is a 51y year-old nonprofit organization focused on affordable housing Financial Empowerment and Workforce Development in the Fenway and immediately adjusted neighborhoods we currently own and operate over 575 units of uh affordable housing and all our properties are located within environmental justice neighborhoods our latest project in the Fenway is a passive house project and our organization is fully committed to achieve Net Zero carbon emissions in our developments while we as affordable housing developers understand the slight challenges that Net Zero carbon zoning might bring into underwriting our projects we are comfortable that they can be overcome importantly we recognize the huge impact that the zoning Amendment will have towards making Boston a resilient City overall by adopting Net Zero carbon zoning we are set you are not only setting a powerful example for other cities to follow but also helping to safeguard the health and well-being of its residents penway CDC strongly supports Net Zero carbon zoning and request the commission's consideration in approving the proposed amendment thank you thank you s Bill Cohen bill go ahead hey thank you for giving me a chance to speak on of Boston communities and thank you for having this hearing today Boston communities is a Boston based team of affordable and mixed income housing developers we specialize in creating uh Transit oriented deeply sustainable communities that improve generational wealth we're also a group of housing Advocates we care deeply about the future of Boston and its residents so as such We Care not only about the housing we build but about the environment that we help to create and the impact that we have for these reasons we're here to support the carbon neutral zoning proposal because we understand that this zoning is going to have an impact on our environment which we feel is worth it we understand that this may cause increases in operating expenses and some additional process during development but these costs are often worth it for the greater good we're also encouraged by the fact that the city hopes to calculate the costs of embedded carbon uh which is a great data point that we feel we don't fully understand um city has also worked to calculate the costs to codify to the best of our abilities not what they will be and we've underwritten those costs to see how they're going to impact our developments as have been mentioned in the past no one here has a crystal ball the best we can do is anticipate the future and then make choices today that we think will help that future ultimately we're willing to do our part to help our planet and we feel that this proposal helps us in that direction thank you Phil uh next is Canon Canon go ahead good morning can you hear me y thank you my name is Conan I live in East Boston I'm speaking as a resident today I am also the director of easty farm and we built a geothermally powered Greenhouse even before the Jenga building went up um so we're very proud of that um thank you for this opportunity um when interviewed by a PBS reporter a developer of an East Boston Waterfront building said the question was how come you weren't prepared for climate change you're you finished Construction in 21 and you got flooded in 22 and the answer was we weren't required to and um I posted the article in the chat you can check it out for yourself so change is hard this change we're talking about which I'm in support of is good and we have to strive to make that change happen it is very easy to fall back to status quo because it is super comfortable now we're being called to step out of our comfort zone and do this work climate action is not optional and not acting is irresponsible and it is hurtful to young people of the future and also other beings that we are live uh sharing this planet with housing is important places where it can be built and we should build it there and build good Transportation so people can get to places of economic activity thank you any resistance we're feeling here is coming from lack of understanding that the cost of inaction is much much higher and unaffordable as opposed to the cost of action the cost we're now paying for fossil fuel based economy is artificial and that industry has developed over 150 years the r rable industry is just coming into place so I ask for us to have a growth mindset and a change mindset and an abundance mindset and take a leadership role here thank you thank you Conan uh next Joe Lin go ahead Joe let's get back to Joe afterwards uh Z I apologize if I mispronounce your name go ahead oh Joe you there yeah sorry about that all right hold on okay Z hold on a second Let's uh have Joe go first and I'll get you next okay go ahead Joe sorry about that sorry for you guys thanks for the time and I'm here in support of this amendment um I'm Joe Lin I'm the one of the principles Millennium Partners a large scale developer in the downtown area with our most recent project being winr Center the largest passive house office building in the world um this is what Innovation looks like and Leadership looks like in the public sector okay um in my crystal ball I see more worse than better okay I see challenges everywhere I see I'm spooked by everything here across the board um but despite all that we have to move forward in a positive way dealing with the things that are most important to bostonians into ourselves uh this Co this thing that we're doing here right now um unfortunately I think with the size and scale of our of the issues that we're facing are much larger than what this body can can address but it's the leadership that comes from this it's the idea that we can do it the idea that when we looked at passive house and no one did it at this scale we found intense Pennsylvania small affordable housing projects there that learned how to do passive house and we were able to scale up to this level I thank the city I thank them for their Innovation here like this uh despite the troubles the $129 that Drew left looked at in the operating cost that was my number here like that I know what it cost I know that existing buildings cost over $2 a square foot here like this so when I see in one of my buildings at the bottom there an old goofy phrase our Burnham building that caus 30 seconds Joe that cause itself The Hub of the universe okay and we sometimes laugh about that that comment it's that kind of boldness in leadership that I applaud today and I hope you everyone votes and support this thank you thank you Joe okay Z again I apologize go ahead hi thank you for giving me a chance to speak my name is Zena tal and I'm a Boston based developer with Zeta Insight uh a development shop focused on high performance buildings our practice encompasses both affordable and market rate projects we've achieved Net Zero on our new construction but have often found it burdensome to achieve high performance and energy effic significant Energy Efficiency on existing buildings I wanted to speak a little bit to project south of 50 units which is our wheelhouse I'd like to thank Mr Anderson and Mr Garcia for their presentation it's about time that we set some goals throughout my 25-year career we had talked about carbon neutrality in Boston uh as an ambitious goal but we've often failed to meet uh the targets uh we can't re improve what we don't measure and finally there's a program that outlines a path forward um I really do want to say that it'll be very important for us to look more closely and to work more collaboratively especially with existing building owners at this time um there's a great deal of dependency on creating mini power plants on every project in order to achieve uh compliance or to purchase renewable energy but I don't want to miss the important step of just using less I would propose that the Berto program allow a two-year period where uh information on carbon consumption for existing buildings be disclosed and plan for compliance uh presented um I really would like to see more incentives for building system upgrades ultimately while I firmly believe that on the affordable housing side uh uh there's always been tremendous leadership for Energy Efficiency my concern is that on the market side we would slow down that supply and we are in dire need for all sorts of housing thank you so much thank you no more raised hands Mr chairman wonderful thank you very much um would anyone from the uh City or planning department like to offer any remarks in response to public comment before we move to our business session thank you yes I I will just very briefly um uh respond to and underline some of the the comments I think um you know I very much appreciate the different characterizations of the um uh sort of ambition of this um proposal and how it fits into our our shared goals that are are um really so important for Boston and it's and it's our future Generations you know we we have made so much progress in Boston already um with Berto and the stretch code and many other things that are mentioned that it's sometimes you know hard to recognize Innovation and new challenging strategies when we have them and that is what we're continually pushing ourselves for um I I do want to recognize also um several of the comments that um uh address the need for um you know looking closely at um cost for affordable housing and the appreciation of that being factored into how this is implemented also um the continued need for um technical support on um renewable energy procurement and recognizing that we are Partners um with all of our um development community and moving into this new era of cleaner energy I also really want to um uh highlight several of the comments um noted the Importance of Being able to adjust with the times and I will say that um we are very um fortunate to be able to combine uh Net Zero carbon zoning through the implementation um through Berto which really allows us to have uh a lot of flexibility over time and also our commitment to monitoring costs and the realtime um impacts as this moves forward is um it's the intention with Berto it's the intention with these buildings that are also covered um and finally I do think it's really important to recognize that this proposal here is of course just for new buildings um these are the buildings that are are Cutting Edge and are um really putting into the ground um the the generational um Urban form um that will that will last in Boston and this is a real opportunity not to be missed um with having these buildings be the sorts of buildings that are are absolutely necessary for all the reasons that you've heard and that really will continue to help um set Boston apart as um a leader in climate thank you thank you we will now move into the commission's business session for any additional questions or comments from our commissioners Michael yeah well first off I just want to thank the the city and everyone who spoke I think you know I really appreciate the time the effort the energy that went into um collecting more information really diving into the issue um in in more detail so I appreciate I appreciate that in a lot of ways obviously I made a lot of comments at the last hearing on this I'm not going to totally repeat myself here but I will say that you know I think everybody that spoke here today certainly everybody including including myself is on the same page we believe in a net zero future and I believe we already have a pathway to get to a net zero future already in place with our current energy code specialized opdate code Berto this is an acceleration of that right and so my concern of over that is is is a couple is there are increased costs which I think many people believe to operating you know Specialists consultants and and building costs that are likely uh to cause some challenges in getting projects um out of the ground there are projects right now I can I can name a host of them throughout the city that can't get out of the ground right now without this even being in place for housing that we very much need and so that's a massive Challenge and I I get the fact that housing is um is an affordable housing is is is being accommodated in some ways as commissioner Chief Dyan mentioned that's great I also appreciate the most well capitalized and largest developers developers can probably manage something like this more effectively but my concern is is twofold and one of it is this and really based around these second order effects and Andor externalities and one of them is I think the developers and many of in the city who want to build housing the 15 the 20 the 40 the 50s units types things that we need a lot of this is this makes it exceedingly difficult they don't have a sophisticated team they are they are not as well capitalized they don't have purchasing power it makes it more difficult for those types of housing units that we need to be built and then in especially in the face of what I would call we have two crisises right one absolutely believe climate crisis is an issue we also have a housing crisis the climate crisis is a global crisis Boston I believe is about onet of 1% of the US Global Greenhouse uh the US Glo uh greenhouse gas emissions so even implementing this is not going to move that needle in a massive way but we also have a very local housing crisis that I believe is affecting more people on the ground in the city today and over the next 10 years than the than the climate crisis so that's my concern if if we can wave of magic once said we can do both in everything and we can I think one of the speakers I can't remember who it was alluded to taking we want to take as many bites of the apple as we can with energy that would be nice if we had unlimited Choice unlimited resources but we we do have constraints and I am just worried about the impact and the effect this has on a very big housing crisis that is affecting more people in the city right now and over the 10 years than than you know improving uh emissions by you know half of a percent uh for for new buildings going forward so that's my concern again I'm on the same page I Believe In The Net Zero future I absolutely believe in that I think we're on the pathway I think we have taken leadership as a city to do that and you know I'm I'm not I I I just I just have I have I have concerns that this is causing more problems and it's solving for as it stands right now and that we I think need to be able to make have good solid debate like this this is great and exciting to see the research and in in the feedback but I think we have to be able to make hard choices in some cases um as as as a city as a state hopefully as a country and and globally in the future but that seems to be more more hard difficult to do rather than just doing what is the sort of thing that is you know on the surface appealing and easy so yes of course we want green energy of course we want Net Zero but what are the trade-offs we have to make to get there and are those worth it is where where my conservice thank you Michael Aisha thank you um Mr chair I I just want um I where I um understand the um the the worry are um from fellow Commissioners in uh regards to cost I did hear that um you know we don't have a crystal ball and yeah we we get that piece however I I did we did hear from developers today uh specifically Tish mpire who um did speak in um the affirmative for this I also um this seems to be a little bit more um engaging than it was the last time because we heard from a lot of different people from a do a lot of different um Industries housing leaders uh people in affordable housing and so I I thought that was pretty impressive to say the least but I I do for me I have to say that um Chief Dylan who I uh explicitly asked her position um understanding that we do not know what the future holds in cost that they are going to operate in a way that folks will not and developers will not um be in a hardship and so I can um I feel that you know Chief Dylan um who I again specifically asked her um and I know that she is a person of um integrity and would not make a statement that of that nature if she indeed would not uh follow through with that um and so I I just wanted to to to to say that I normally don't I try not to say too much but I just could not um not let this this session go with about um making that a point again of reference and um and we just have to obviously follow the federal government how what they're going to be doing and improve our our policies and and continue to work for the Boston real estate industry and so I I appreciate um uh the the efforts on everyone's behalf thank you very much for allowing me to speak Mr chair thank you other comments from commissioners J um along with um Michael and others I just want to acknowledge um uh the and appreciate the analysis that the planning Department's provided because in my mind the magnitude of the cost which there is additional cost and incremental costs um you know we have to be realistic they will create additional um uh screens that some projects may not be able to meet but I I think hearing the magnitude of the costs and also more importantly the options to solve to try to contain or mitigate those costs over time are very important and I and since our last meeting you know I've I've looked at other municipalities that are are going the same direction Boston is obviously a leader but there are others that we can also learn from that are engaging in the similar exercises so um I I do feel um that together we can all accomplish something um but by by proceeding with this I'm also um I know it's not part of the zoning per se but the value in collecting data on embody carbon I think is going to be very important in helping to solve these these all the long term so I just wanted to mention that as well and then um Mr chair I just wanted to acknowledge that we did receive letters of uh additional letters of support for some people that did not testify here um both individuals and um uh uh our political um uh members of the of the city and and I wanted to acknowledge that those were very helpful for me to review as well so thank you for allowing me to comment thank you other comments yeah I'm just gonna make Ricardo had his hand up just briefly before you drew then so Ricardo then Drew of course um um I I just want to say that I I was actually impressed again with the work the city had done to sort of EX Express these costs and the slides it shown and both in terms of affordable housing models and what those square foot costs would be so I I was really that was I thought very compelling in the presentation that didn't happen um uh when when we first heard this proposal uh last year um and um and so I'm while I am am sensitive to and agree with the developers that are faced who are doing the 50 15 to 15 unit models um I also think that we're um kind of in this important moment uh politically and I think that it's very important for the city of Boston in spite of what the federal government is doing to um really show um sort of leadership here and I think to step away from this is I think at a time when we're hearing so much negativity at the federal level I think would be um I think a a bad signal so um uh I I plan to support this proposal um um and uh and while recognizing there are challenges ahead they challenges to anything but uh I think this is an important step forward thanks thank you true and just briefly um I agreed uh with Michael tela's uh comments I thought those were um uh right on target here I mean for for the major developers uh um the millenniums the tishman inspires the uh Samuels um maybe it isn't such a um uh additional cost for them and and and and in terms of consultants and things like that I I uh very much appreciate um um uh Sheila Dylan's uh uh comments about how this isn't really going to have much effect on affordable housing but it's the other housing that's in that sort of middle range where there are some significant costs in terms of the analysis and and uh work that has to go into that and it doesn't seem like we're getting that much more here that Reddit is what's really doing the job we're going to be at 70% of uh in uh 2030 um what we're really talking about this process is getting pretty darn close to that uh 2030 so um I do have an aversion to um um uh uh supporting additional uh zoning if I don't feel that it's it's really really necessary so I will probably be I will be voting against this thank you Dreer Ryan um hi everyone I want to Echo uh my colleagues thanks to the city for providing additional information and thank you to Joanne and the staff for forwarding me uh the previous hearing so I could catch up as a new uh member of the commission uh I did have some concerns that I I want to thank that I've got answered uh such as if the grid was not yet equipped to support renewable energy at the scale what the hardship process would be um and you know additional ways that on-site energy generation can happen while the grid adapts to that demand so thank you to those that were able to help me understand that in um listening sessions leading up to this and again want to thank Chief Dylan uh Travis and commissioner settles Garcia uh on other efforts on this I do plan on supporting this thank you any other comments from Commissioners or motions Mr chair um I would enthusiastically like to make a motion that we approve text Amendment application number 527 article two definitions 37 green buildings and 80 development review and approval for Net Zero carbon zoning than a second there's a motion and a second we will proceed with a roll call of the members present Miss Hatton yes Mr deela no Miss Mora CWA yes Mr mAh no Miss Miller yes M Miller I have he answered yes thank you Mr Le no Mr rooya yes Mr ostrich yes Mr mcneel yes Mr Woods yes and the chair votes yes that is eight votes to three by my Tally and the motion carries thank you to the members of the city again for your uh work on this matter and ensuring that each of the Commissioners had adequate responses to questions and ample opportunity to review these materials in advance of the meeting are there any other matters for commission staff to address with the commission today um hi all I know we are planning to bring an annual report before you just looking back um at both some of the particularly zoning reform that you've passed over the last year um and some of the impacts that we're seeing as we work to evaluate um impacts of zoning reform um in part because of the number of um public uh testimony that we saw signing up for this meeting and out of respect for your time um we're going to look to do that at a later agenda over the next month or two where we have a shorter agenda period um and can help get you uh back to uh the rest of your work days more effectively Kathleen can I ask a quick question yeah just just can can we get a quick update of where things are with article modernization and kind of some of the St squares and streets and other zoning initiatives that we you know I am would love to hugely pursue rapidly as a city here yeah so I think um you know one of um so of course squares and streets has been adopted in Madan and the BPD board has actually um passed article 80 approval for um at least one project that uh now is under squares and Street zoning um and will not require additional zoning relief um we are uh also finishing up uh planning in Rosland Dale Square um like right now in fact it's out for it's uh the plan's out for its uh final comment period um and we'll be releasing a draft zoning map based on that plan um next month in February um to do that process and are getting ready to release a draft map in Cleary Square uh plan uh in clear square that then will be followed by a rezoning process for squares and streets um you know article 80 modernization um is sort of continuing a pace it's a a lot of uh vetting from a lot of different sources and we're kind of currently in a process of figuring out um what are some of the highest impact um at changes to bring forward and and Implement what can be implemented today or what needs to be piloted there um but do hope that there will be a package that um ultimately because article much of article 80 is in the zoning code comes before you as a zoning commission uh this summer great I would just love to continue to urge you I think we could doad we've added a lot of costs we're adding a lot of things like this we are certainly climate is a crisis but I think we have a housing crisis that we have to solve and and and and simplifying and modernizing Zoning code is a is a critical piece of that and so push plus one plus one from me on that let's let's see some of that stuff come back through with that we will adjourn for today thank you all for your time and attention and Jeff when do we have our next meeting uh February 12th is our next one okay we'll see you all then thank you thank you bye