e e 26 2025 at 10 10:30 a.m. I'd like to thank everybody and and just uh for moving it from 8:30 to 10:30 because we did have a great event with our chamber the number one chamber in the world as we call it
because people get along here and do the right things for our community and uh the chamber is definitely um something to celebrate and it was pancakes and politics this morning so we heard from our local legislators which is very important for us that we keep the
relationship because relationships as we know in this community are so important that uh we will keep growing that of fixing facing and fixing things that that we have at this point so um at this time I'd like to call up
father Mike Brady with Christ Episcopal Church to give us our prayer thank you Father for being here morning Mr mayor council it's privileged to be here thank you for inviting me let's take a moment and
place ourselves in the presence of God God of the Nations Grant your wisdom to our mayor and city council give them courage to apply that wisdom with integrity Clarity of purpose and compassion let not extremes of Party politics or posturing blind those who
govern or motivate those who oppose so that we may all honor one another and seek the common good Lord we pray for our city of Bradenton strengthen what is good within it and teach us to cherish it strengthen the Insight of our leaders
into what is best for the people and give them the courage to argue for a future that will bring about the FLIR flourishing of our community we pray for all law enforcement officers in our city First Responders and those who help those in need Shield them with your loving
presence guard them in their work and Grant them hearts of compassion to ensure the safety and well-being of all that they encounter help us all to renew our commitment to one another so that in our everyday lives we may bear one another's
burdens and rejoice to share one another others Joys we pray this in the name of your blessed son Our Savior Jesus Christ who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit one God now and forever amen
amen you join us in the pledge I pledge alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for
all thank father may all right at this time we'll call the meeting to order Madame clerk we do not have any proclamations or presentations scheduled this morning okay thank you and at this time we will have citizen comment
citizen comment will be accepted during the citizen comment portion of the meeting on any non-agenda item agenda item future agenda item or topic of relevance to the City comments will be accepted on public hearings at the appropriate time and as we've said at
all of our meetings when you do a citizen comment you have three minutes you'll state your name your city of residence and um one thing that we do have decorum in this chamber is we do not clap cheer boo do all of that we saw that how well that worked at our last
meeting when there was uh probably 100 plus people in here about an something we were talking about and it really was good to see that the Quorum from the audience the council and all the staff worked well and then also we would remind everybody we will not have any um
Outburst in the audience or you will be asked to leave during the meeting um again this is a business meeting and we're going to move forward so at this time I only have one citizen comment uh card and it's by Bill Sanders please come forward state your name your city
of residents and you'll have three minutes welcome Mr Sanders Bill Sanders Brandon Florida good morning Council Dale Eugene
Brown this information I had before the election chose not to use it because I couldn't verify it but it's important to the citizens of this community to know who their mayor
is and there's a few people some in this room that have continued by the way the election's over you won I would congratulate you but you're
not deserving so you have some cronies some goons and some thugs that seemed to want to harass me till the end of my time I
suppose I like to fight I was used to be a boxer at one time good one too Jean Brown there was a little boy about seven years old a couple years ago that you cremated his father without
permission of him or his family what a Despicable thing to do you were sued you admitted it you got caught you settled it but the family has never
forgotten and people around them have never forgotten you were charged with The Cremation of a a decedent's body occurred without a court order and it was under court order all the officers operators owners
employees agents of your firm were fully aware that they weren't supposed to do this the um the little boy said he wanted to see his father sleeping peacefully in his
casket and that that his father was well and to be in heaven he didn't get that opportunity because of you I read this again last night and I couldn't believe it's public record by
the way I'm not exposing anything that the public doesn't know and I don't know how you I don't even know how you get up here and address the public I know how you address your public on other issues the other issues like a billion
gallons of poop going into a river you tell the people don't report it I've got reports of that I'd like to have some more time but I'm sure you won't give it but I want also a public record request from the clerk and the
City attorney than you Mr Sanders and the city public record request for Mr Sanders you're out of order if you I'm not out of order I'm asking for public records request your time is over I know you don't like me that's fine public comment at this time Madame clerk
um we have no more cards um is there anyone that would like to speakest for the harassment uh you're out of order Mr Sanders you're being asked to leave and you're being escorted out please sir you've disrupted this meeting um is there any comment by the
council sir y y any comment by the council um I will I will publicly make a comment that if facts are able to be just said and what was said was not
factual uh the past three minutes and you know yes my family does own two funeral homes and what that gentleman just said speaking was totally not true and you know we have been in your business for 50 years and I feel like I have to I don't want to say defend it
because the law speaks for itself we did everything correct and when there's emotions in families it's what the families are dealing with and what we're trying to help so it's just not factually true and then even at the end what he said was not factually true so we're up here
trying to help people and do things and I will just stand on my record councilwoman Coker yes and this might be I'm not sure who to direct this to but um it's distressing to see someone use public comment and for to make personal attacks and I don't think and I believe
it's specifically precluded and I don't know if we can stop it or do we just let it go but um I think it's important that we have public comment and that it's used in the right way because that's sometimes the only way we can hear from the public but when it's being used in
such a way um it really bothers me yeah we there are limitations on on what can be permitted during public comment we have been working on some procedural rules to bring forward so that we have a formal document
outlining um what those requirements would be um I think probably to a large extent didn't feel it necessary but perhaps given types of things that we heard today maybe it is and we can put that on a future agenda thank you and
again I'll stay say to the public I stand on my family's 50 years in business and my family's seven generations in Manatee County of what we've done um without getting personal in that and if
this was a opportunity for an individual to bring it up in a political atmosphere it would have been brought up so um we'll go from there Madame clerk the next item is the consent agenda and staff is requesting approval
of items a through K chair will entertain a motion I'll make a motion to approve okay we have a motion by Miss Coker a second by Mrs Coachman mayor I have had the opportunity to discuss the
consent agenda with all counselors all right any further discussion hearing none we'll start the vote inward two yes three yes four yes five yes and one yes carries unanimously thank you madam clerk at this time I'll administer the
oath anyone wishing to address city council during the following public public hearings will please stand and raise your right hand do you swear or affirm that the factual statements and representations which you are about to give to this board will be truthful and accurate thank you item 7A is resolution
2525 and it's a public hearing thank you all right good morning mayor and Council um I'm Jamie shind wolf with the planning and Community Development Department and I have been sworn the case before you today is uh pln
25001 or resolution 2525 which is a request for a medical clinic at 509 9th Street East Bradington Florida here's an overview of the case the um you see applicant address parcel
ID Etc um I did want to point out this is as I said a request for a special use permit and so a special use permit is uh used for land uses requiring um or those which have the potential of disturbing other land uses in the zoning District because they're not necessarily
compatible with land use in the zone in which they are allowed they require discretionary review special uses are permitted only if in in the specific instance the use will be compatible with surrounding uses or can be made compatible through limitations of their operation or enhancements of the site development design special use permit
makes the stipulations if you choose to put any mandatory and the permit is valid on the property which it is issued for as long as the conditions are met unless the approval stipulates otherwise here's an aerial of the subject parcel you can see it's at the corner of Manatee Avenue East and 9th
Street East the future land use is Urban Village and the zoning category is T5 which is within our form based code area um the form based code defines a medical clinic as a facility engaged in the examination diagnosis and treatment of
medical Chiropractic opthalmologic dental and pediatric or other Healthcare patients it includes administrative and clerical operations of the practice and does not include overnight facilities for patients the proposed request is for a medical clinic specifically a Urology
office that is in existing space um there are up to 50 parking spaces available in that shared parking lot ordinance number 4018 made all medical clinics require special use approval within the FB the form based code area and those require city council
approval uh this use type is not prohibited by the future land use designation this is the site plan that was provided of that existing building um I did tilt it so it would be a little bit bigger I know it's still hard to see um but manate Avenue East is going to be
on the right of this uh drawing and then that star is the approximate location of where this office would be located here is a photo from Google Maps but it looks pretty much the same today that side of the building so we have General special use
standards um that all special uses must must comply with and you can see them listed here uh this request at present is for a clinic to move into the existing building uh so there are some existing grass buffers and trees on the property but to fully meet all of these standards the building would have to be
demolished and rebuilt so um generally though staff finds that it is compatible with with these standards so the following criteria shall be considered and cited as reasons for approval or denial of the application as stated it's an already
built building uh it's built as a multi-use building with a large parking lot there are there's adequate Ingress and egress uh with entrances for Manatee Avenue East and 7th Avenue East the unit that is proposed for this use is accessible through multiple doors including near handicap parking
spaces um the application has indicated that there is a dumpster that serves uh the tenants already on 10th Street East and we don't believe the medical clinic would generate a significant amount of additional waste um and staff does not believe a medical clinic warrants
particular screening buffering or separation as all of the activity should be confined inside of the building any lighting or signage would be reviewed in accordance uh with our city of braon regulations and requirements it does not appear that a
medical clinic would have an impact on the value of surrounding Properties or prevent development of nearby land the proposed juice will operate um between 8:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. according to the application and should not produce byproducts that would pollute the air or water supply if
excess refuse is created by patients or staff the property owner would be responsible to maintain clean cleanliness the comprehensive plan explicitly mentions Medical Offices as an appropriate use in areas with this future land use
category so overall the proposed use appears to generally meet the criteria for special use approval and Planning Commission voted for zero to recommend approval thank you and there sorry there is a representation from the applicant in the audience as well um if you have
any questions about the clinic itself or anything else so does anyone have any questions for Mission yes vice mayor thank you um were there any stipulations put on this um staff does not have any specific stipulations that we are proposing but
you all are welcome to propose is your own thank you m Coachman is there going to be designated parking spaces for the the Medical Clinic they have not indicated that but we can ask them because there
are other businesses there and yeah we we that's something that um we can see if they're willing to do that all right I I have a couple questions Mr Perry did you want to go first I got a couple questions mrwolf um would this special use with the land
would it be accessible for a different uh medical use or or medical use that involves a Urology practice um it is valid for as long as the conditions are met so if another
practice were to come in and none of the conditions changed um you know if you put a stipulation on it for example um you know the stipulation still met Etc then it would be able to remain in the same use type even if it were a different ownership or
renter um I I don't know but it is restricted to a to a Urology practice is that correct I would not say that would be the case but I'm going to look at the City attorney yeah I mean the medical clinic
use is a fairly wide use category it does reference in the approval that it is proposed as a medical office um but I think think if it is the council's desire to specifically limit it in that fashion we would add a stipulation that
says that the uses on site would be limited to medical office my problem or concern with that is that uh the term medical office as pointed out by council is a very generic term uh it can involve drug treatment
and other types of uses within the parameters of it from my understanding within reason and so auth ization to use this for a medical clinic is a fairly broad Grant of of land use to start with number two I don't know how deep a dive
has been done on this to look at things like biological or chemical waste that comes out of different medical practices and how that's disposed of bloodborne pathogens things like that that would be specifically related I imagine to the type of medical clinic it it is and I
could also imagine that this Council would be concerned with how those matters are going to be hand handled um and particular conditions could address the handling of of the disposal of waste of that nature and the like um so to give a broad Grant of a medical clinic
that could Encompass virtually selling Band-Aids or anything else I don't know how how how broad that is but I imagine it's fairly broad from what I understand and and other issues related to I'm just concerned with that um and then and then lastly I was told that this was going to
be Urology uh Clinic I was contacted by a a group of local practitioners that had a Urology office here for quite some time they were in the community and apparently they had lost their space under certain circumstances that I'm not aware of and I told them to talk with
the planning department basically and I appreciate you guys getting with them and walking it through but then I'm told that that Urology Group has found alternative space um and it and that it's not a urology clinic anymore so I just want to make sure we're not we're
not uh we're representing things accurately I guess staff was not informed that it was no longer an a urology clinic and and and the applicant is here so I guess we can drill down that a little bit we'll have time all right um Miss Coker and then miss Barnaby well that was two of my
questions was the medical waste how that would be handled and also um if we could put a stipulation that if it changes from being a Urology practice then we could um then they would have to come back back Miss
Barnaby I I was kind of thinking along the same lines because of the situation that we had just recently with a methadone clinic and I think it's very important that we know exactly what's going in and exactly what their plans
are Mr rudisel do we have that capability of putting as a special use for Urology since that's what they're we've been told if there are particular concerns about other potential uses there that are outside of the scope of a Urology
practice then I think it is okay to limit it I I would suggest we let the applicant come up and provide some more information and then maybe we can drill down more on on how we might limit it all right that's answered a couple of my questions I do have one other we talk
about the parking and it's got up to 50 spaces there well there's several businesses now that are in that complex and that parking lot is really not well defined um when you go there to for it's the restaurant whether it's another
business that's in there so is there anything when does it come to the point when you know there's 10 businesses there and it's the spaces are not adequate do we check into that and the only reason I'm going on that is because
I know we once approved a drive-thru and the other night I was driving down the road again and they're backed up in the road because we didn't anticipate this is not a drive-thru but it's similar situation where once we say it it's kind of got to stay and then they don't have
to meet regulations because they are meeting the regulation um in the within the form based code commercial uses including offices uh have the same parking requirements so they can change out uses within the space
um without necessarily having to having to revisit parking however if you're seeing something in particular on this site as part of the special use process we can put conditions on that to take a look at the parking so if we feel the parking is inadequate or if there's something um like they need to upgrade
landscaping and and and and striping uh in the parking lot we can talk about that Miss Barnaby Miss singer um I I think all of us are fairly familiar with that de facto parking lot
it's an open lot parts of it have been striped at some point in time there's other areas that have not been striped in my mind there are all sorts of you know we we've got we've got
several parking lots in town I've got one in my ward that's not screened it it does not follow the landscape code that one does not follow our Landscaping code um again and this may not be this gentleman's problem but it potentially
comes back to being our problem so we may need to look at that okay and we can all right any other questions and maybe the applicant can help us you've heard what we've said maybe you can answer to some of the questions and like I said the parking as
was stated is not maybe totally your problem but when you become a tenant there it does become an issue if others complain so all right at this time call the applicant forward good morning just please state your name and obviously company I'm Dr
Alan Miller I'm a urologist um this is Bry pardon and okay have you been sworn yes yes okay yes so you're the urologist and is the property owner here too so you might as well come up as well
because I think if we can clear some of these questions there might be some you know opportunity so um from a historical point there were a couple historical questions uh I've been in practice in brington for 22 years my partner's been
in practice in braon for 28 years our practice was purchased by a venture capital firm of sorts and we decided that we didn't want to work in that environment any longer we'd been doing that for two decades we've been as a
practice through three three bankruptcies as are related to corporate ownership so my partner and I decided to move out on our own um I've known Chris McKenna for 22 years so we looked to see
if we could move our our new practice into his existing building beautiful building it made a lot of sense um we only came to find out that this special use permit was a requirement in order for us to move into that building but
time did not allow us to wait so we could not afford to wait for this process which we were urgently told would be six months to a year even to get the special use permit um the special use permitting process is a
little bit new it seems like for the city as well so no one was really sure how long it would take so we looked to sub lease we are currently Su Leasing and we'll ultimately open our practice probably next week so that's the reason
why that building remains open but that space is to be a medical use space for a urology clinic at some point in the future if everything works out well so that's from the historical uh perspective as far as biohazardous waste Medical Offices deal with biohazardous
waste it's not an issue it there are professional companies that uh are contracted with to allow for the disposal of all biohazardous waste so those two issues are pretty standard fair for uh a medical office given the community this is a medical
community and we are literally eight blocks from the largest hospital in the area as well as multiple uh medical clinics within the area and within that General vicinity we would not be the only ones in fact my old practice is in
a Riverwalk which is essentially a medical office Park so it wouldn't be a new thing okay all right Miss Moore and then Miss Barnaby um I feel like I need to ask attorney rudil um because I have represented
Urology manate Urology Partners um in the recent past and I was unaware that Dr Miller was going to be advocating for this um so do I am I good
or um I I would probably recommend that you abstain from VOE on this matter since we don't have the ability to look at it with the ethics Commission in advance I'd recommend you go ahead and abstain okay thank you all right Miss
Barnaby well you are still allowed to ask questions and it is your ward so did you have any questions that you wanted to ask of the applicant or no is oh it's Pam's Ward I'm I'm Miss Coachman's word I'm sorry I am so sorry
I'm not cooking with gas today it's all of our war right well it's questions Miss Barn yes um as you have alluded to it is a beautiful building it is a historic building um when I was growing up here it was a department
store and one of the problems that we've had over the years is making sure that whatever signage people choose to use that it does fit the Ambiance of the building and that it it um is
appropriate I guess is a good way to say it um we've had people in the past want to put up large LED signs that can move and change and do all sorts of things I personally don't feel that that's appropriate on a historic building I
understand that uh so we're a professional practice we're not looking for flashy uh kinds of things of that nature we're looking for professional the Urology depart you know profession what I no go no no mannequins any other
questions Miss Barnaby no it would be uh we are looking for a professional environment professional signage um and we've talked Chris and I as well as the my other partners about how we would like the signage to be but it would all be in in line with the existing
structure and and the historical value that's kind of cool to us too so thank you vice mayor Kramer thank you um sir your practice without going into Hippa issues would there be a large number of
patients who may need disabled parking at any given time with one patient being seen while another potentially showing up certainly there could be some um because there's two of us we will essentially be seeing six patients an hour so you'd have six parking spaces
every hour being used pretty much throughout the 8 to five day in terms of how many of those need wheelchair access or or wheelchair support there there there isn't very many I I would put a percentage on it if I if I knew but I would be in the 20 to 30% of patients
who would need either wheelchair or a walker U and the facility itself the building itself can accommodate both of those things as it stands now but it's not going to be a place where 90% of the people are going to need those kinds of uh handicap type access okay clear way
that's my concern is the parking right there I believe the handicap disabled spaces are right at the front but I think there might be room for more in whatever talk we may have about improving the parking lot so the nice thing not to interrupt the nice thing
about the parking spaces and the location of the the clinic where it would be there are entrances from the parking space directly from the side of the building in the parking lot as well as on the street side 9th Street East so
um from the door to a parking uh spot on 9th Street East or to one of the entry doors from the parking lot itself uh in the road around the building would be very close and easily accessible by wheelchair even by ambulance if
necessary that that is a rare event so sure um this is sort of going to be for Mr McKenna but also for uh planning uh right now if we were to approve this as is without any stipulations the special use would be
for the entire parcel not specifically for one business business or segmented part of the property is that correct um no uh we generally have been doing this sweet by sweet office by office um
because if there's grandfathering we want to make sure we're looking at these on a case-by Case basis okay so thank you thank you Mr Perry just briefly I I did speak with Dr Miller was the person I talked to on the phone a couple times and he did point out to me early on as
far as uh their concerns regard stting a protracted um specially use permit process and their need kind of the time was of the essence um and and and that's when I suggested basically that the process itself getting through the Planning Commission and ultimately to
council for the special use um would be probably the middle of February I thought that we that was about as quick as we could do it and I think I spoke with you probably close to the end of the first week in January thereabouts and so we've been fairly quick to get that through and I appreciate the Planning Commission taking it that quick
as well well um I I wasn't sure what the situation was because I did hear later that oh there wouldn't be a urology clinic there I didn't know that you were in a particular location hoping to ultimately then move your um practice to this location um and and and and so I I
I I appreciate you clarifying that for us and and apologize if I um didn't accurately reflect that the the second thing with Mr McKenna would you mind if this is designated with the speal with under the special use with condition that it be designated furology practice
no none at all okay that's all I have any other questions all right any um staff followup before we go to public hearing all right Mr Mayor yes sir I think we do need a little bit of followup from staff because the
resolution as it's currently drafted just depicts the building and it doesn't Define what the actual office location is so we might just need a second to see if we can describe that and include it in a stipulation if that's something that's important to the council all
right since you already brought that up too um when you showed the square Miss Jamie um you had the square of the property but it looked like half of the parking lot was outside of that square does the parking lot go all the way to
6th Avenue oreven Wells were one way turn it become seventh there um yeah see because is the parking lot go all the way down or is it just there so the I own the entire property
there so all the way down so that other parcel that there is also there they mentioned about the parking as part of this um discussion with them to come in we know that the parking lot needs to be restriped and that's part of the bu in design because I got I've been
dealing with a roof and a and walls blocks bricks blowing off and all that yeah it's on the list it's just well I just going to tell an experience I had there I went there for lunch and parked and then when I came out there was a car in front of me and a car behind me so I
couldn't leave and thank goodness there was a car had left so I was able to wiggle my way out but so just because it's not lined and somebody pulled in front of me and somebody went around and then again somebody came over the curb to get in in the back so it's not a well-designed parking lot right now
especially for more business understand don't disagree um just to note that happened regardless of the lines being there or not so the general public I don't just has a there's just issues with people parking we do have an issue
and just if I can bring it up I don't know if you guys approve it but over on where the green is where the parcel is Osaka every Sunday decides to have or once a month decides to have a thing and it blasts out my parking lot so I have told them many times not to allow their
attendants to park in my parking lot um for that s reason because I do have other you know occasional events upstairs and if it's on the same day we have a total nightmare of parking so um just I agree with you on the parking I'm trying to do the best to maintain that
it will be striped before they even move in or if not once I'm done with the the roofing and the other pieces that was on the on my agenda to fix thank you all right any so what do we need to determine you think before we go to public comment if the location of
the unit is important then we just need to identify that so on the property so we can included as a stipulation should we get the stipulations before we go to public comment to be listed out I don't think we need to maybe I can work with staff on the language here while we're doing
that because obviously you've heard urology clinic only fix the parking lot and locate it in the building correctly okay do we want to include Provisions related to the parking as a stipulation because if that's the case I need to know what exactly the council
wants them to do well I would just think that you have to keep it striped and designed and brought up to current code if there is any difference again we we want more old manate and Miss MO would say this
probably more than anybody and Miss Coachman is we want that to be another downtown and so we want businesses we want people we want things to happen but sometimes I'm going to go back to that drive up we forced a ice cream shop on
26th Street and we realized that it's not going to work and we can't stop it we can't change it now um so now every time we've done another drive up we're making sure that they're able to stack enough cars so so we want to make sure that this is successful without
hindering the business too much and maybe it's some things that already should have been done the parking maybe should be something that we should keep up with but you know nobody's trying to give anybody a hard time and especially after the unprecedented storm season we just had there's a lot of other things
you're having to deal with but we're the ones that are going to get the phone calls and and the emails why did we create this and and as we know most of those you know people at one-offs that really don't know what's going on but with Facebook and and um people that are
going to come up and talk about untruth we got to deal with it so let's set us all up to succeed is is what I know this Council and I I know you want because you don't want to be up here again for on Code Enforcement things because it didn't happen so so I don't
know what do we need Mr Rell I think we might need a brief recess so I can talk to staff about before the public comment public hearing um I think you can probably do public yeah I'm confident that there all right so we'll do public hearing see what happens from that and then we'll come
back at a public hearing and figure out where we go next thank you you can go back all right at this time we'll open up the public hearing anyone wishing to speak anyone wishing to speak can come forward you have three please state your name and address and you'll have three
minutes good morning good morning my name is kolina H swor uh I'm from the city of brington um I'm here because we have been having issues with defences uh for over two years no no this is on the only thing with the clinic yeah oh never mind
sorry you're yeah you're next next in line next in line all right anyone wishing to speak on resolution 25 25 anyone wishing to speak hearing none we'll close the
public hearing and we'll take a 10 minute I think that'd be good 10- minute recess thank you okay e e e e e
e e e e e e e e e e
e e thank you thank you all right we'll come out of recess Miss singer did you have any more that we wanted to go through before we uh no we spoke with the city attorney I think um uh Paving and striping um the
parking lot as one condition the other is that uh we're talking about a square footage for um the offices at that location they don't have specific Suite numbers that they're tying it to I think that's what we discussed with the city attorney so he has the language to um include in the
resolution all right so we're having three stipulations in the resolution yes Mr Mayor I'll I'll read three proposed stipulations into the record and then if they're acceptable um I want to bring the applicant up after they've heard them to make sure they're in agreement
and then they could be incorporated into a motion thank you all right so the first stipulation is that the approved use shall be limited to a medical office for a Urology practice uh the second stipulation is
the approved use shall be limited to the approximately 2200 square F foot unit at the southwest corner of the building and the third stipulation is that uh parking and uh Paving and
striping for the existing parking area shall be brought up to current code standards okay Council any questions or um four all right we'll bring the applicant up I guess this would be applicant and
property owner because there's stipulations do you have any questions or concerns or do you agree with all three of those stipulations I agree state your name and for the Chris McKenna and I agree prop as the property owner I agree okay yeah because I think
with all of those would be more on him for the future and obviously you'd get the right now so all right thank you chair will entertain a motion Mr Mayor yes ma'am motion to
approve resolution 2525 with the said stipulations second all right all right any further comment questions by the board anything hearing none we'll start the vote inward three
yes five yes one yes two yes with Mrs Moore at the direction of Mr rudisel I guess what do you call that abstaining abstaining because of Prior relationships yep all right so carries four to zero thank you madam clerk
moving forward item 7B is form based code appeal and it's a public hearing as well um good morning Robin singer planning community development director um here to present on this item uh regarding an appeal of an administrative decision to
deny um a adjustment for fence height um within the form based code um when uh we we allow for a certain amount of adjustments that can be done administratively um at my discretion as
the Director and uh if they um if I deny it they have the right to appeal and those appeals go directly to city council uh in this particular case it involves a property at 1011 21st Avenue West um which is a single family
home currently occupied by a single family home and um they are requesting and I'll just to show the location it is at a corner property it is at an intersection of 21st Avenue West and 11th Street West um it is located in the
p4r uh form base code restricted district and in the Urban Village uh future land use area uh and this depicts the property and their original request which was for 5-ft wood fence along uh both frontages and six- foot wood fence
along the side and along this portion of the frontage um with Gates that would um impede on the uh that would cover the the entrance to their driveway and this is a relatively new home they built it in uh 2023 uh and then they followed up with the
request for the fence this is what's allowed under the code you can have a 4-ot fence in the areas that are in yellow in green you can have a six- foot fence and then you have to leave free and clear these areas uh that are within
35 ft of the intersection of the property lines at the corner and within 10 ft of the driveway um the individuals uh we applied for an appeal or excuse me applied for an adjustment um
last year uh when they wanted to put up the fence and that appeal was denied or that adjustment was denied and they were informed of their right to an appeal uh they didn't take advantage of that they went before the code enforcement special magistrate in July um and they gave them
additional time to go ahead and obtain permits um for what they were allowed to do and I followed up with them in an email there's there's been a number of email this has actually been a much longer process to get to this point but um I informed them of what they were
allowed to do and basically included and I apologize because this is upside down from the the previous slide but basically so North is is down in this slide but again depicts kind of what they're allowed to have uh where they're allowed to have the six foot the 4 foot
and um and the clear visibility triangle requirements um and they indicated they still wanted what they wanted they wanted to have their that had already been installed um and this depicts the fence this area along here is between four and 5 ft along these frontages this
is the intersection um to the right is 11th Street and uh going to the left is 21st Avenue um their driveway is over in this location um and then it kind of goes to a a greater height of about six feet in this area and along uh the
backside of the property and again this depicts looking North on 11th Street uh and the corner uh visibility triangle is there uh and again this is a little closer view of the corner visibility triangle and then
if you are stopped at this stop sign this is going to be your view along here um among the reasons for and they'll indicate to you why um they they want the fence what they feel their security issues are um and I should also mention
I'm certified in crime prevention through environmental design which is speaks to uh Safety and Security on properties and how you achieve that and usually it they promote more of a transparent fence I certainly it would be helpful in a corner visibility triangle to have a more like a metal
picket fence or something along those lines uh looking into the area around this property there you do see some fences that are 4 feet high along the front edges not into a corner but into the frontages and but they're generally chain link so they're transparent some transparency ows for the at least the
perception of surveillance it allows you to secure your property but at the same time you can see what's going on inside and outside your property so somebody can't hide behind your fence uh and do something at your home that that can't be viewed by the public um but I think part of the reason that they've
indicated um is there have been some unsavory activities in view of their home and they had some videos that they submitted but after talking to the City attorney we didn't include those in the package due to the nature of what was depicted depicted in those videos and they can describe that to you um but
they're we're not going to show you those videos today um but in any case I think that's their what they feel is their compelling reason I think my issue with this is that when you look around um and this again gets into the code you can have four feet in light uh in height
in front of the the property six feet behind uh the home and then you just can't have anything in the corner visibility triangles um and this describes your corner V visibility triangle which comes out of land use regulations of 35
ft and so when we're looking at this Safety and Security I think being primary issues here and just the opacity of the fence in the corner visibility triangle is one of my primary issues with this and also just don't feel that it's necessarily in keeping with the
neighborhood and what we're seeing around the neighborhood um to put up a opaque fence four to 5 feet high uh along you know they they are allowed to have it in some areas but to put it across your corner visibility triangle and across the front of the property um
I I feel just is not consistent with um what we're trying to promote in the area and it doesn't necessarily give them potentially the Safety and Security because we feel that some visibility in and out of the property uh promotes based on septe principles promotes um
that those kind of um security issues um with uh being able to have provide natural surveillance um throughout the property um so in the criteria and go back one um so granting the adjustment will promote
the same general level of land use compatibility as the otherwise applicable standards and that's where I'm talking about you know that Safety and Security is an issue but also compatibility with the surrounding area and what other people have put in place um granting the adjustment will not
materially affect adjacent land uses and the physical character of the uses in the immediate vicinity of the proposed development because the inadequate buffering screening setback or other land use considerations so we're concerned about the blocking of the view of traffic um particularly at that stop
sign um and that we feel that again that the fence isn't consistent with other fences in the area and granting the adjustment will generally uh will be generally consistent with the purpose and intent of the formb based code and the existing land use regulations were applicable um the purpose and intent of the foreign baseed go is to protect
preserve the public health safety and general welfare and to insist in the orderly and controll growth of the development of the city and so I think as the reasons have already stated um we feel that it is inconsistent with that um and with that um Miss Jetty and Miss Cordoba are here if you have any
questions for me before they come up to speak Miss Barnaby thank you Mr Mayor so miss singer this is a corner lot and we tend to treat corner lot Lots as if they're two front I mean there there're
it's yeah so it's like you have two two front yards rather than yeah okay um so this this fence is installed already and was it installed with any kind of
permit no no they did they had a permit for their single family home and I think there was some confusion at the time uh about whether or not they had their approved and I think they can speak to that but we have we have not and that's why it's in front of the special magistrate because they installed the
fence without the permit do we know if we have a rogue fence company out there installing things without permits or do was it done by the applicant I think it was the applicant and then there was we were trying to get it cleaned up so they could bring in a fence contractor and do
it properly and then there was so they've been trying to do that they've been trying to okay well I mean I'm very that's the neighborhood I grew up in so I'm very familiar with the neighborhood and and to your point I
think um also elsewhere in the city you can put a six- foot fence if it was halfway between the house and the road or that property line um but just behind the residence so elsewhere in the city you could put a 6ot fence along here but in the form base code it only allows for
four feet in the front so for clarification elsewhere in the code also same rules apply with a 4-ot fence being allowed in the front yard and just nothing in the corner visibility triangle um but just just so I understand if it were a larger picket
fence or a chain link fence where you could see through it would it would the configuration that you're showing us here would it need to follow that configuration yes even if it was still be limited okay even if it was chain link or metal picket uh would still be
limited but if um if city council were to allow them to put something into the corner of visibility triangle I think it should be much lower um and and at least be transparent okay some transparency thank you Mr
Perry um I think I got the answer to my question which was asked by councelor barnby and then then I read your denial memorandum which is dated May 15th which bottom of the first paragraph it should be note the subject fence was installed without permits and so my question is when was the co issued since you said it
was new construction uh this for the single family home before all this came to bear it was how long before uh I'm I'm not sure 20 it was in 2023 but I don't you know when the fence was installed not exactly no okay if I I
don't know if Greg do you know okay GG needs to be sworn so we don't know when the fence was installed but but we know that at least you you issued a a a denial memorandum 10 months ago yes and code enforcement
has taken action on the fence yes and if Council was to allow any sort of construction into the uh the triangle itself they I would imagine that the next person that wants to put structure into the triangle would have a pretty
good argument to say well you let them do it and so why is the dispara of treatment yeah I mean just as I'm looking to other properties in the area for consistency with them I think somebody else would be able to come in for an adjustment and ask for that same consistency absolutely based on this one
and potentially have actionable claims for dispara of treatment I did notice that there's other fences in the area that were chain link and I know that a lot of them are grandfathered in prior to the ordinance and it's not these fine people's fault a lot of times you know I think what they do is they look at the area and they say
well other people have a fence so I think I can have a fence and everything but obviously with the development of traffic engineering pedestrian safety um security issues you talked about for crime prevention and the like it's a determination that the up that the
design and and and construction of these fences not be in a corner visibility triangle particularly on 20 you know 21st is a fairly active yeah uh uh Avenue for for through traffic and the like and 35 ft isn't too much if you
look at that photograph itself um you'd have to pull right up to that intersection and make a full stop and check because that goes right up to the right away if you look in that photograph there's a fire hydrant right there and it looks like it's about 3 to four feet off that fire
hydrant all right Miss Coker um yeah just I mean aside from the technical issues that you're 21st Avenue to me is the main is one of the main thoroughfares there down in that area and um having the stockade fencing in
the front is really sending um it it really affects the the curb appeal and what you're trying to project in that neighborhood um I think I'd rather see us focus on the bad behavior that
they're trying to address with the stockade fencing I just um having a code that does not allow it on the front of a house is common in the County I mean that's not something that's just in that form based code it's pretty standard not
to have stock a fencing in the front of a house because it just isn't it's not good for the Ambiance it's not good for the curb appeal and I'd rather see us focus on maybe additional um I don't know how to do it but to to address the
problem additional police presence is that what you're looking at well yes well I was just going to say looking at it for me personally trying to back out of that driveway with that
there and not being able to see what I might be backing into or if there's somebody standing on the other side of the fence waiting to do me harm because I can't see them it's a solid fence there's there's a lot of issues
here all right so we want to swear Greg swear at Greg or is there anything else questions go ahead and swear him in in case when we get to the end swear airm the factual statements and representations which you're about to give to this board will be truthful and accurate thank you all right so at this
point we're ready to go to the applicant okay now you can come upen and Miss Cordova Jenny and Miss Cordova all right welcome and please state your name and uh address for the record my name is kolina I live on the city of Bradington um my mother is
Rosanna and she also lives on the city of bra and you both have been sworn as we know yes thank you so I did an ex it I don't if we can use this yeah she'll get it on uh actually I did had a permit
something that is not mentioned here I applied for the permit on May 26 2023 and I have copies of that the fens test was placed on December 10 almost 198 days later so let me show
you you can see the day if I get a permit when I come to apply it means the permit is moving forward and I ask for it can I put my fences now and they say no problem go ahead you already got the permit you can see the descript of the
fences in there too when I apply and it has the stamp of the city and when it was received sway showing how the fences will be placed 5 f a wide six it's a
white same here it's a copy here is a picture when we place the fenses December 10 2023 so if you check from May 26 2023 till December they have basically 7 months to send us hey this didn't work but let me show you what I
got because this is fur I'm furious about this like you have no idea I spoke to the city after city called sent me a fine because I didn't have a permit for fences they are like you don't have a permit I'm like I do have a permit I
have copies of all the permits they confused that it wasn't a house in place I showed them all the inspections there is a house there is not an empty lot we can have fences we have a permit this is all the conversation with the soning
Department we show them the permit number we have a permit for the house single family house and permit for the fences an employee and actually I'm glad Greg is here because he's CC on these emails he said hey we sent you an email
on May 26 around 1:56 p.m. saying your fences fail I request a copy of the email because I never got the email let me show you what I got I'm quite sure you guys are familiar with emails all day long this is not an email and this is
fake this is not a copy of an email this is not a screenshot the phone number created on this email is from another employee of the city can you make that a little bit Absolut please I mean I'm sorry I am paralal I
work with emails all day this is not an email send me a screenshot he's here he can show the email from his same phone he C see on the email he can prove it this is not an email this is fraud then we go back to the triangle of
visibility since they say you cannot see anything because it's a coral BL I made a video of this to make a you can even see and 14 a street on the stop sign a video sometimes is better than just a picture because you can actually see actually if you see on
your uh left side you have a fence that you cannot see to your left and if you're coming from this point 11 Street the first thing you do is check to the left you don't check on the right because no cops are coming from the right they're coming from the left point
can you make that larger please like you did for a moment there you have the pictures there exactly like in the video just screenshots from the video F in the street you can see the stop it's after the fences on this side is to the left you
can see the fences not the street also even if you want to do 35 angle for visibility you cannot do it the structure of the house doesn't allow it unless we put the fences inside the room it's impossible you cannot do
it look and then we did hire a fence company because we did try to to go on with this and even the fence company decided to return the money because they couldn't deal with them with the son in department they gave
them different information no do this permit this way no now this way at the end they say we already had a permit and we had to drop our own permit in order for them to take over and redo a new permit so if I don't have a permit it doesn't make sense for
me we have multiple cameras around the property we have a guy peeing in front of the camera recording himself and I have the video if you allow me to play it I have another guy masturbating himself in front of the camera and I have a two years old I don't want my
child to see that I'm sorry H it's unbelievable and then I had to do I had to call the police because I have two individuals marking the house I have the video for them to come and steal the house I had to call the police for this
my mom lived by herself she take of my child while I'm working I mean there is a lot of internal issues that are not my concern um out of that situation but let me show you this is the G the
guy masturbating himself he passed by the house almost every day doing it 2m. 2 p.m. afternoon time this gu is looking into the house does my police report the police uh for
saw it was necessary to give me a police report for this I'm going to show you the video too yeah walking by and she realize there is a camera that is recording her and she decides to
leave that's my report with the police and xbd is just the appeal that I did to be able to have the fences at the height that were approved in the beginning yes
okay any questions this is a mess so umry all right what we do is we have to go Vice somebody you trying to break into your mailbox no so basically what
they do um is they Mark the houses to come back later okay uh and that's the way they do it PE I grew up in New Jersey New York and that's how they they do it over there I have a criminal justice major we learn all these Basics and yeah you couldn't tell what that was
they were trying to do if they were trying to actively break into a mailbox or they have done that before too and they have sent mail to my house that is not my mail and if you guys are familiar with the area is prostitution drugs I'm
homeless every corner of the area sadly we have to live with that but we don't have to be part of it I like to wake up in the morning and feel safe I don't want to be lacking my daughter every 2 minutes not knowing if he if someone he
just because most of the homeless I see around our men's are going to get my child for something or drugs I don't know that's my concern my safety my child okay thank you we have to keep moving with the procedure we'll go to
public hearing and then we'll come back um first before we go to public hearing Miss singer so the basic chronology of events and now if if you have more questions about it Greg was probably more familiar more involved in this process as it moved through so after they built their home
they applied for the the fence um and it was failed because they were showing a vacant lot we said well you know you can't put a fence on a vacant lot and they said well we did build a house so it was soon after that that we requested an updated survey so that we could see the house and we could see where the
fence was going then there was a lot of back and forth about how the fence was depicted because they were saying 6 feet 8 ft and what they meant was an 8ft wide panel but that wasn't clear on the plans and it appeared that they were asking for an 8ot tall fence and we were asking
for clarification so um it was some months later before that got clarified it was December that it was um failed um for not being compliant with code and we had all of those you know that would have been sent to them in an email explaining what the code
stated and what they were allowed to do uh and then soon thereafter and also in December of 2023 they were cited and so I I assume that that's the point at which the fence had been built and therefore they were cited for work without a permit um again some back and
forth between them to get it into compliance and some confusion about the rules but eventually they applied for an adjustment and that adjustment was denied in May of 2024 um and then um they uh we told them in that process that there's an appeal
process if you want to go through that they didn't file for an appeal it was taken to the special magistrate in July of 2024 uh and we hadn't heard back from them in August I went ahead and reached out to them and said again here's the rules that's the diagram that I put up
there before um which is on the next page um and indicated you know these are the rules quoted the code um and so forth and again um they they got back with me and said you know we really want you to reconsider it can you
reconsider your adjustment um because we really want the fence and I said well here's what I will do is I'll reissue basically my denial of the adjustments so you can file an appeal um and so they filed the appeal in December and it's
before you today now this delay of this last month that's on me for for not bringing to you in January but all right so the question I would have right out is we were shown something that they thought they had a permit back in May of
yeah 23 Greg can perhaps with a dotted line or highlighted where it was going to go yeah Greg dong assistant director of planning Community Development and I have been sworn um what they were showing you was the application not an issued permit so there there's two
different things staff has worked very diligently with this um resident and her mother um trying to help them we spent time on site um I have an email that Isabelle De Jesus who's no longer in our department went onsite with her um along
with a former city planner worked with them also submitted sketches of what is allowed we were always getting a rebuttal back on the rules so as of this date there is still no permit issued um we've worked very hard with them them um
there was an email that has been omitted from the applicant that I sent to them on June 27th of 2024 laying out and I didn't interject because staff was doing their job they were doing an excellent job communicating I didn't feel the need to interject at that point so I did step
out of it but on June 27th of 2024 I did interject and explained where we were in the process the fact that they missed the magistrate um or missed the appeal process they're in front of magistrate asking for an extension which Magistrate until the end of 2024 um she gave him 6
months to get the approved application so that is kind of where we are there's still no approved application there has been some communication um miscommunication going on during the process but staff was laying it out very clearly on what they needed to do and it's just not been obtained to the state
all right questions M Coachman who was the fing company that was involved you know I'm not sure of that because the communication we have was just directly with the applicant and her mother it seemed like you said that the
your fencing company and the city were at odds so I mean who who was can come forward I think part of that was that the application I think was originally under the owner's name and and they
needed to shift it to I mean we don't require an owner can pull a permit but for whatever reason we had to cancel out the other permit application in order for them to reapply um under the contractor's name and I think there was some confusion and we were trying to work that out in the
midst of everything else going on so and who was the fence company uh it was Co fence discount.com I have old fence discount that's discount.com that's the name of the uh contractor they did come multiple times
to have different emails even showing Isabel De Jesus and all employee of them the same person that told me my fences were good to go telling them no put the permit online through the PO system no come in person so again this internal
issue of an employee giving run information is what made us put a lot of money into fences put the fences and now have to take more money out of pocket to bring it out to the code one more time
because of internal mistakes I'm sorry but I cannot keep running out of money just to bring faces to code because of an internal mistake an employee that didn't know what she was telling you so one of the questions that comes up with
me was the fence was already installed so what was the new fence company the fence company going to actually do If you hired them they were supposed to give us um the fences like you know like um the venal fences um that you can see
through but put them up to code that's why we hire them I was like I don't want to deal with the city anymore just please do it so you were aware of the code then at that point of what the requirements are of the location no when we apply for the initial permit and when
we place the fences two days later they tell me oh sorry we made a you applied for the permit but you never received an a permit they didn't tell me that when I came here in person and I asked here is the permit I pay for everything yeah you're good to go you can place your
fences now thank you but you never got a copy of a normally they wouldn't I don't think they would say you're good to go just because you've turned in an application you we know that now but if you are new into this and you're a homeowner putting your own fences you
come in person to the city and you ask it's anything else do I have to wait for anything no you're good to go you can put your fences I didn't put my fences the same day the next day I waited six months seven
months May yes sir Mr Perry perhaps that document that you thought was a permit that appears to be a application be put back onto the yeah and maybe Greg and Robin can talk about that because I I
think that the Crux of what's going on is that and and I think you did a good job of developing this is that an application was put in with specifications on it but a permit wasn't issued and the assertion is is yeah but there was a verbal authorization but look at I'm going to show you something
I have an screenshot of the online portal of the city with the result P of passing it shows passing I want to see that first part if I could ad so the top of it says it development permit application is that correct
correct okay and you have the specifications the description of the work it's a little hard for me to read but it has a shadowwood 150 ft wide High six
feet 27 wide e and that's eight two gates so you submitted this as an application I want to see the submission date is May 26 of 2023 okay did you ever receive a permit
let me need car I was good to go that was my can you blow that out a little bit so I don't see just the business card and I want to take look at the rest of the document if that's okay and down below it says schedule a new inspection is that right open
a okay Robin do you have any comments on what this depicts as far as notice to a particular applicant and it says notice of comment commencement doesn't it can't is it's it's something that was done online because doesn't it say
online services at the dop where up here yeah it's I mean again it's not a permit it's not an issued permit and the date on that is 52623 so that's a that the same date as
the other form turned in this more um yeah so this is not a permit but the card if you scroll up a little bit so is that just the application number that is yeah let me ask something what result b
means is passing I don't know I can see if I come in person you tell me he went through go ahead and now I3 and he didn't do online permitting per se I mean I this is prior
to May sure go ahead um if I just like can understand yeah I guess maybe the question presented right now this is what I'm kind of boiling it down to to frame the issue number one there is some question
about I guess pability as far as the amounts expended because now we've built a fence and now we have to bring it to code potentially um and then number two whether we're going to Grant a variance to permit the existing
structure or whether we're going to deny the appeal W with potentially some stipulations regarding or no just that's it well I mean yeah we come up to the microphone Sor um um yeah so I mean and we are getting
and I understand her concerns and we obviously we've we have a multitude of emails going back and forth uh on this issue um and and you know for any um fall on our department I apologize but you know we we're trying to we're here
to move forward and the reason I open it up for an appeal is to allow her to have her say here at city council um be that as it may we the the what you can do today is either uphold the denial of the
adjustment or you can um disagree with it and you can direct it back to staff to say you can approve it but with these stipulations for example if you just want to take her to take out the portions that are in the corner visibility triangle um if you want her to lower the
height of the fence across the front so that it's only four feet high um whatever you know city council wants to do but that would be in in the vein of directing staff to reverse that denial and approve it with certain stipulations
for modifications to the permit and would that be done through a stipulation yes and would it we what we do with this matter before Council today would we table this or otherwise I would say you make a motion on it and then you can direct it back your motion would be
to direct it back to staff to take the necessary action as as indicated by city council and and this depiction the drawing you have right up there does allow for the six foot high fence along the back line and and and portion of the sideline yes and then it has a 4ot high
requirement and it's exist six right now is that right yeah it's uh approximately 6 feet um along here for a portion of this so this would need to in order to comply with code should come down to four feet high I believe it drops down to between four and 5 feet high along
these other frontages uh including into the corner visibility triangle that's the way it currently is so uh you can have them remove it out of the corner visibility triangle drop it down to 2 or 3 ft um so that you can see over it um you know a motorist can see over
it um so that shows you what it is and it varies in height you can see at the corner here that it drops down a little bit so this is closer to four feet along here looks closer to five to me but I would I would say they're all six foot sections it's just the way the land
topography but if Miss Mor finish up then miss Coker and Mr Kramer thank you um I was actually just going to ask Chief Bon if she had any thoughts or Miss I mean I know Miss um is certified in seped and has expressed her concerns
regarding uh the the applicant's goal which I completely sympathize with because that is you know those videos are egregious so I don't know if we have thoughts on whether a fence like that helps or not I was um I was actually
kind of engaged in and the other stuff she was talking about um yeah that's what we're talking about would this fence help or hinder some of that well there's some conflict as to what has been reported and what she's indicating
today and so I'm going to have to get some additional details um we've only responded out to the house for for criminal mischief in the past so I'm I'm not real clear on this other incident which sounded pretty
significant to me so we just jumped on that um you know clearly a privacy fence is just just that it can provide greater safety and privacy for a home but I as to the other stuff I'm going to have to get we're going to have to get more details cuz our our um Reporting System
doesn't show a response bi us to those to that significant incident that you detailed all right so let's go Miss Coker Miss Coachman then vice mayor Kramer yes um I just wanted to offer that while we're deciding how to handle
this there there is an opportunity with the CRA to to assist financially in as long as the permit hasn't already been issued the work hadn't already been done that we might be able to assist with what would go
there just want to throw that out there thank you Miss Coachman couple of things um there was mentioning of the visibility at that corner you're in order to be able to see you've got to go
past the stop sign no actually I I can show you the video again you don't need to pass the stop sign well it seemed like the front of the car was beyond the stop sign cuz you know technically we're supposed to stop behind the stop sign and then Ease on up
so you really won't see you know you won't have real good visibility until you pull up it seems to be I also live in a neighborhood similar to this okay um I'll just be h honest with you I have
cameras all around my house as well well one side I need to put one but I would love to have a privacy fence but my choice would be that I want
people to be able to see in and I understand you don't want to see out I do it's not a great view I understand that but if someone does enter your gate then you're not protected in terms
of others being able to see what's going on so just kind of think about that too um because if you're blocking view I know you're blocking view for yourself so your your child doesn't have to witness
things but on the safety side it's best to be able for the police and for even your concerned neighbors I know maybe might be few but concerned neighbors wouldn't be able to see as well
um I understand why it's just my my concern is if I lower the fences to that point I don't mind to change the fences to something that you can see through that's not a problem my concern is people jumping into the property for
real and the playe outside and driving the kit they'll do they'll well six feet yeah over all right thank you did you have anything vice mayor I do um to miss
coker's point would that have to be for a brand new fence they'd have to take down the fence they have and put up a new fence correct I'm going to defer to uh Mr Burton who's here I think technically it is supposed
to be but I don't a non fence that's been installed exactly well I'm going permanent fences installed that would have to be taken down have you been sworn Mr Burton sworn at pleas turn in face to Cork please
raise your right hand do you swear or firm the factual statements and representations which you're about to give to this board will be truthful and accurate yes thank you do I have to Yes um since there has been no permit
issues this fence is is still new and the work that needs to be done on it you know whatever you decide how it needs to be adjusted height-wise I definitely would consult with your Police Department about seped um since no issue has been no
permit has been issued even though one's been applied for we can um work with that to make it that happen we just don't like giving applic or giving grants to folks that have already pulled permits CU they're going to do the work anyway so that was the question and it
was obviously stated numerous times no permit has been pulled so it's a to us it's a new fence okay all right thank you sir Dr Burt yep no he's not done yet no okay I know I just do you have a followup on that point um or
something else it not totally so please okay thank you thank you sir um based on what we're having what we're able to see right now on the screen there is no way that a fence will be able to put up that wouldn't basically hit the corner of their house correct
any fence like the diagram they showed was pretty much or the earlier one with a thicker line showed pretty much into their property into the house this one shows maybe what looks like a foot away from it but that's the only way a fence
goes up if it's permitted properly correct yeah if they want to have aot fence in their front yard it has to follow the line of the corner visibility that bluish triangle on the left I think it's blue yeah okay and likewise at their
driveway that right now just has what looks by all photos we've seen just a wooden fence straight across that would have to be modified to have the same type of look with whatever type of fence is put in as well correct okay um I
agree with Mrs Coachman that in the video you showed there's when you pulled up to the stop sign and you were trying you were trying to show that hey you can see down the road when you did that you could also tell that the front of your car was
blocking was where the crosswalk if there was a crosswalk would have been so that means that anybody walking down the sidewalk there which is that area is only on that Southside the roadway would have to then go out into the road or go behind you and based on those let's just call them decorative rocks
that were there that I don't know if you in put those in or if they were already there they were already there that's weird but um yeah and they told me I cannot do anything outside the house without a permit not even like make it nicer they told me just to it like that that's not part of my property that's
part of the um easement yes okay yeah I try it's that's and I will agree that The Pedestrian activity in that area is at best Shady in a lot of times um however there are codes and there's Community norms and the norm in that
area is not to have that type offense okay so Miss Moore um the um the driveway not being permitt this is probably more for Mr donger missinger the driveway not permitting
off fence um but a gate is permitted is that accurate it looks like to me though that they could have a 4 foot high fence following that line on the inside the yellow like 4 foot four foot four foot but the
blue you know the blue you can't have any right right correct and right now it looks like there's just a gate there yes straight across okay I just said no offense all so I thought maybe that meant that you were just insinuating that it had to be open but I wanted to clarify they can close it off off with
some kind a 4ot structure um and then for the um for the triangle of visibility if there is an issue with its proximity to the house so you're saying that we could stipulate to shrink the triangle but lower the fence yeah I think I mentioned it in the staff report
that actually you could build the house 8 feet from the front either front property line so if you were to follow that it would be like a 16t uh visibility triangle um at the corner if that's the most they'd allow if that theyd built the house to the minimum
setbacks from the front Okay and then the final question was the one the followup for Dr Burton which is would you say that I I think it's an excellent point that they are there's assistance available would you say that they're
potentially uh available to them both the new fence uh component of the grant program and seped or just one or the other and I guess maybe that's without the purview of this thing but I'm just trying to think of you know Solutions
yeah seped is designed for commercial okay can I and because I think I understand your earlier question and and it is but we actually Al also do some residential and and what I would tell you is that the the basic principles surrounding seped is natural
surveillance and so we're we're never inclined to provide um fencing that prohibits us looking inside um we like visibility um even commercial residential we we would always petition for um visibility type structures in
fencing and and seeing now specifically what we're looking at we we would say some sort of rod iron or something that we can see in that's always from a Safety and Security standpoint I I'll reframe it um in the
past our grants haven't included residential in sep head it's up to the board to decide if you decide to do that just be prepared that that'll open it up to all residences to come in and get a seped grant that would really keep the
police department busy and this area also so if you decide to do that I would I would defer whether you should do that to the chief because she'll know better than I that if if and you may want to consider letting the police department
decide if one is necessary in residential before you would give one in because there may be a residents out there that could use it Mr Mayor didn't but I would defer it to the police department everybody want to use it well didn't we hear that Miss singer is seed
certified and did did you not say that okay so we could possibly use several different points of attack with whether it's commercial or residential or I would defer I would defer uh whether a a
partial needs if the crime is such that they the she would know and she would be the expert that could tell you whether and we would defer to her all anyway I mean it it's a little bit of a slippery slope um as he said and uh I I would probably try to
approach it more from just if you're asking me my opinion based on my experience and my knowledge of seped basically what councilman Coachman said and what I said it's always best to have
natural surveillance um and visibility as opposed to Hidden and and I don't need to have a sept head certificate to tell you that so well and I mean if since we're talking about natural surveillance and all of that and the
neighborhood at times it's a double-edged sword because it's safety for you at the moment but it's also safety for the bad person when they're in inside and if they're doing unsavory things inside it's harder for the police
to solve it too so I I know that there's a lot of questions a lot of moving on but I think that what I'm hearing is that you know if we were going straight out that the council would probably vote to just uphold Miss singer's
recommendation but they're wanting to come up with some sort of alternatives to give an opportunity maybe still to have the feel for you but it's going to be in a different light of some height and some triangles and things of that nature so but it's going
to I mean we could probably talk about this all day if we wanted to but somebody's gonna have to make a decision at some point and say let's send it back to miss singer with trying to come up with some security for them as well as coming up with a plan
that would still meet the sepad parts of it and work with the CRA does that sound like we can get to a and then again it may not meet the six foot all the way around but it's going to try to
help to get to a point where the triangle could be moved out a little bit but it's still only going to have to be four feet so if I'm understanding and hearing and Mr rudisell yeah well I was just going to
ask is this is the intent that this would would be continued while staff works with the applicant based on the comments and bring back some suggested resolution if they can come to a resolution amongst the staff and the resident would it have to come back
because they could issue a permit if they knew what oh it's because we still have to give the variance once they adjust right okay correct well I can approve an adjustment and then it wouldn't necessarily have to come back unless she didn't agree with the adjustment I'm willing to give and then she could
return back to I think you've heard Council said I think she heard my inclination my inclination is that there be provided at least a clear um um space Corner visibility triangle
at least 16 ft along either side because then you're you're meeting the same visibility you would have if you built the home to the minimum setbacks um I'm a little less you know I I would encourage them to remove the fence gate from across the driveway because I think
that inhibits them from being able to leave the driveway um but that would be my inclination based on what I've heard today uh if you don't agree with that please let me know now well I think one of the things that we have to also be mindful of and I I know Mr Perry brought
it up or um at one point but if something happens and we've approved it we've approved something that caused cause an effect and now we've approved it in a different way that could bring more back on this Council because now an
accident happened you know from a that so miss Barnaby Mr Mayor um Miss Melton point of order did we open the public hearing on this yet no ma'am okay so we would what correct me because I'm not an attorney but if we were to open the
public hearing and then continue it yeah I thought we did and we closed it not on this not on this well let me let me ask a different question is this an advertised public hearing did we yes according to this agenda well I know that the agenda
says did we advertise this as a is this required to be uh advertised public hearing it's just an appeal from a right okay so I don't think it is it's just a there's no notice requirement so I mean
I guess there's a few ways this could go but if it if the council wants to send this back to the planning director with the comments that have been made if they're able to work out an arrangement that Miss singer is comfortable approving within her Authority then the applicant
can withdraw their appeal it doesn't need to come back but ultimately if they are not able to then it would need to come back to the board um for a final decision on the appeal that's been submitted and mayor I think it puts Miss
singer in a little bit of a switch to the extent that she wants Direction she doesn't want to administratively probably approve something and then have Council or myself say to her why' you approve this this isn't what we talked about that Wednesday at noon kind of situation one thing you could do is you
could basically deny it because it's certainly non-compliant and that doesn't mean that they can't reapply with some of these comments that we talked about going to miss singer and asking for uh an additional variance basically and coming back before the board for approval to
deal with the issue regarding the corner site visibility triangle the fact that there's a 6-foot fence in a large portion of it where it's 4ot restricted um there's a gate there and other issues attending to it and and I think these land owners quite
frankly are going to have to concede certain things because they built a fence without a permit uh that has both issues regarding uh Traffic Safety at that corner when it was told oh don't worry about the traffic from the right no one looks that way I'm looking going
and seems to me people would look that way and also there's a sidewalk there so if a kid's racing down on a bike and you're backing out of that parking lot guess what who are you going to hit the kid on the bike I actually hit kid that way in in a house and so I kind of I'm very sensitive to that but I I I think
that might be the best approach and and and then take something back to council for an approved variance um that would be acceptable within within already pre-arranged conditions from the landowner the uh planning department and
ultimately concede a couple of these things whether it's an adjustment on the cornner site visibility triangle of a few feet um or the like the sep thing I mean you know what it sounds like as I sit back is that we want to put the stockade fence around to protect our
property and you can do that but really where you see that is not very desirable neighborhoods I I don't even want to tell you some of the places I've seen you know that are boxed in like that they're really usually industrial areas or pretty rough places and I don't think
that's what we want to do from an aesthetic Land Development perspective in addition to having the traffic safety issue and and other issues well but but one of the things that you just mentioned and it kind of made me think what they're asking for today is to leave the six- foot fence all the way around it yeah and we've obviously heard
that if that was voted on today that that would be probably denied so is that a better way to go to deny what they asked for today with direction to send them back to work with Miss singer to try to come up with what she's heard and what we've talked about and then if it
can't then we would have to come back again and do it as quick as possible I mean we want to solve all that so is that the best Direction probably to go Mr rudisell it is certainly a direction that the council could take because then they could ask for a modified adjustment
that maybe they could get to a point that missinger would approve it um and then it wouldn't need to come back to the city council so I think everyone's heard that is there do we have to go to public hearing now because there's no public in
the room anyway been advertised and I don't think there's anyone here for it then why then we need to stop putting it on the agenda that we mail out that there's a public hearing for this well it is it is a public hearing and that it's quasi judicial so we are having a hearing it's just that there's no notice
requirement so if somebody happened to be in the audience that wanted to discuss it they could well then let's open it and do that so all right we've had quite a bit of discussion at this time we'll open the public hearing is anyone wishing to speak anyone wishing
to speak before you close anyone wishing to speak Miss Barnaby I'm not sure which is the best way to go with this um but if if there is no no advertising
requirement but I still feel like just because we've done it this way in the past we've continued public hearings to either get more information or to allow staff and the applicant to work together to try to come up with something that is
amable to all without having all of us up here feeling badly that we have to turn something down just to get something done but if we deny it now and they can work out an agreement it won't have to come back to us if we continue
it it's going to have to still come back to us to be approved I thought he said they could withraw I I think we can commit to bringing something back in one month March 26th I think we can have those discussions bring it back to you um if
they agree to it um fine I still want to inform you of the decision because if it's an adjustment it means it's still not going to exactly meet code so if I'm coming up with an alternative after we've had all this discussion I think it's fair to bring it back to city council and inform you of what came out
of it and so then the city council will totally understand own it and have to accept if the people line up to come back in for the future I think it would be a highly abbreviated discussion at that point if it was an agreement between planning
department and the applicant well I'm going to make a motion that we continue this until our final meeting in March with the hopes that we can come up with something um and we'll see whether
I get a second and then we can have discussion I'll second it for discussion purposes okay so we have a motion by Miss Barnaby to continue second by Miss Moore Miss Moore well
um looking at looking at this this these are the things that when I first started on the council that would make me my hair turn gray and luckily I have a very nice lady that makes it so that it doesn't look that way now
um I understand where you're coming from I truly truly do um the women up here were moms and doesn't matter whether they're two or as mine just turned
36 on Monday I I'm hopeful that we can work together to try to get something that is palatable for the council and does not put us in the
position of setting a major major precedent when it comes to these things but also leaves you with a level of comfort effort all right we have a motion in a second to continue till our last meeting
in March for Miss singer and the applicant to try to work to agreement to come back just to get informed the council and then vote to probably at that point approve that plan so may yes sir just for the record that meeting is on do we know the date March 26th I
believe be March 2 at 8:30 yes so March 26 at 8:30 all right hearing no further discussion we'll start the vote and award four yes five yes one yes two yes three yes
carries five to zero thank you very much all right Madame clerk item 8A is the proposal for City Center Garage retail space Mr Perry mayor council uh we were informed that one of our tenants
uh will be non-renewing his lease um I believe it's July 1st is the the tency period excuse me Mr Perry would you use your microphone thank you thank you I apologize we've been informed that one of our tenants in the city city center retail space will not be renewing his
lease um beginning July first and so um we did have a tenant Express an interest in in expanding their facil their their their program their retail program uh what I did was Miss Miss foron actually sent out a letter to all the other
tenants asking them if they had any interest in that particular space and if they did to please provide a description of what they were proposing for use of that space the terms of the lease would be basically the same as it relates to
specific terms conditions and uh rental um provisions and so miss flee that is the owner of pink and Navy's come up with a proposal for City Center uh retail space next to her shop pink and navy it there was a copy of the description that's included in the
package and that's uh here before you for approval she was here at the council meeting earlier I believe she had to leave she was hoping to address uh the council but um did did did have to leave so that's what we're asking for approval for is to go ahead and and finalize um a
lease with pink and Navy for this proposed use the proposed use itself basically is fairly well described in a program um I don't have too much experience with a par apparel marketing or other retail things and so I'll leave it up to council to figure that one out
so Mr Perry I have a few questions and then we'll go to the council um what is our plan for renewal on all of these with lease opportunities with increases in leases or or has that been
discussed or talked about um with the market we're in now yes sir so I believe that the there's a escalator and and Corey foron can probably come up and be the best person with familiarity regarding the terms of lease but I believe there's an escalator um annually
that is based on a CPI adjustment but I'll let no cor let Cory take a stab with that um there is an annual increase of 3% under the current lease and the current lease they had the first three
years which is expiring for everybody this year but they have two additional one-year extensions but it does go up 3% every year okay and the reason I asked that is because we know that with other discussions we've had with things being
built around the city what the responsibility of um government is to put retail or Force retail not force retail in different shops like this and at what cost and who picks the winners and losers and I know that would would
our cost in these retail units be equivalent with market rate or higher or lower that I cannot I I think you know speaking with some of the folks that do have experience in it U you know
obviously Mr Baka um who's now with NDC and does a lot of leasing of commercial space I I think they're they're they're reduced below the market rate however there's a fairly good size of of vacancy in in the retail Market space in Bradon
in the downtown sector as well and um you know when we did put in the uh when we did the solicitation and Mr Baka did that for us I think it was with a former comp uh real estate agency at the time a brokerage and uh we did get we did get a
number of of proposals and potential interest from folks and we vetted them carefully trying to look at those businesses that would probably be most suitable for the downtown Corridor and uh we we took out some of them they were
interesting businesses but that's what we took to you as you may remember and I think we actually had presented you with all of them but we explained to you why we selected recommended those that we did um we continue to keep that theme that a mix of usus being food service
limited obviously um you know place to get ice cream place to get some pastries um coffee in the morning that type of thing might be the best uh kind of use um for the surrounding area and Retail purpose and then we have some obviously
apparel retailers and one of them is the the the individual that uh is not using one of the extensions and renewing his lease um on an annual basis but this does fill um that particular Gap and and
it expands it into kind of a more novel approach to retail that looks at in this case I guess it's a I guess I'll call it a phenomena instead of a fad which is is making your own clothes customizing your own clothes
and again you know I shop at Walmart most of the time so I I don't do much of that yeah the reason I'm asking these questions as being the only one that was sitting up here when we did the garage and being very supportive of putting retail and even opportunity for future
retail along third um when it was the right time um and we talk about heads and beds well this is feet and stores because we want we want retail and different opportunity down there that is
going to be bringing people down here so then maybe they'll go somewhere else maybe they'll walk around maybe when they stay at the hotel they'll go visit it um and we had some restrictions on timing that we because we want them to
be in and that was kind of for the discounted rate that we were giving that that that's there and I I think by Nature opening up you know right after covid there's still a lot to grow and see and and do but you know when does it
come that we are being good stewards of the taxpayer dollars we know that garage is going to start costing us money now that it's not as new as it once was and you know other options are going to come to this board for the total building of
the garage and the retail but we're also going to have deferred maintenance that we're going to have to start thinking about in this building so I just want to to be cognizant of what we're doing and again these are one-ear renewals so we have a one-ear renewal and then we have
another onee so we'll see where we are downtown at that point with heads and beds that will bring feet into the stores and I'm going to say it just because it's me I'm disappointed they're not open
later but I'm not disappointed in them because we want them to be sustainable so just for us to say you have to stay open until 7 but they're losing money they're not going to be there so like I said I'm not disappointed in the people
we have there and the one that's leaving I believe is leaving after talking with him because he just can't make a living there you know it's not enough so um we've got to go through that and and really try to make sure that we're making things happen of what our vision
was but until our vision is more heads and beds downtown it might still take a few more uh Cycles to get it so I saw Miss Coker Miss Barnaby and then Miss Moore um I saw in here no Financial impact I'm I'm assuming are are they
just going to take over over that other lease and so they'll be paying an addition they'll be paying more I mean that's a great store I think it'll be great to have them there and expanded but I just want to make sure that they're pay they're covering that
the additional space with more rent oh yeah they no they'll be paying the the replacement rent for that that space and there aren't any TI 10 improvements to do if they are they have to be done by the tenant and usually they're not permanent um FF Furniture fixes I mean
and and Equipment kind of stuff it's not permanent fixtures well I would say that's great quality uh store that will be you know more activity and activity brings more activity and I think it I think it's a great um it'll be a great addition I'd also just point out you
probably all have seen it that the pink Navy actually does currently do a lot of like special um events out there where the bring someone in that is a jeweler a specialty Jeweler type of thing and they do a nice job I think doing the social media advertising and getting people out
and and getting feed into the stores as Mary pointed out so this is going to be kind of that on a higher level is what I'm assuming Miss Barnaby yeah um I think that this is going to be a wonderful addition to our downtown I'm
I'm definitely in favor of it but I am curious who contacts the stores or is anybody contacting the stores when we have events that are scheduled because I've been down at numerous events and the stores are
closed and I don't know if it's a communication issue I don't know if it's a a staffing issue um what I can tell you is we don't and we probably should at some level um because I I agree with you some of the events um and and it's interesting to
hear some of the vendors down there the merchants because they'll usually say you know I can do really well for my month by having a couple of good days Public Market or a special event event and the like but sometimes I've walked by there and they haven't been open and but I I will say that most of them I
think know when they're special events we advertise them on the boards up there and maybe I shouldn't be assuming that and maybe we should do something to let them know I don't know if it'll change the behavior I I well as far as changing the behavior I believe that when we put
contracts out to them we to we told them specifically that we selected them because they had the understanding that they were to stay open in the evenings when we have events in such downtown or on the weekends I think one of the things that's hard with that Miss Barnaby and it's really you know
again we spend a lot of time down there all of us do is when you see the market on Saturdays obviously it's during the day so it's a little different um Third Avenue is closed you know with Main Street the
night events it's only closed to the edge of Main Street and Third Avenue is open so a lot of the traffic doesn't want to walk across a road that's still open so you know I don't know that I'm not saying that we should close Third
Avenue but um and I think if you ask them because I have asked them that the events we're having people aren't really shopping for that type of thing now maybe some other things you know Winter Wonderland might be a little bit different because you could sell
Christmas stuff at the time they most of them were not open that night right no and that and I agree with you but I do know that um they all know when our activities are I I think we I mean if we put it in the contract that they were to
be open we wanted to see the businesses open when we were having events down here and with just a little bit of of planning and advanced notice even even if it's like they're not necessarily shopping for clothing or
a chachki or whatever having the store open gives people the opportunity to walk in there see what it is and go oh next time I want to get something that has braon on it you know to send to somebody I know where to come it's it's in their best interest to be
open when we're bringing down thousands of people but that's the main reason why we have discounted the rent MH but that's one of the reasons but thinking of nobody's walking in and buying anything so from a business
standpoint why am I paying a person to sit there for three or four hours and it's no there's no return on that but we also maybe have to remind them that the return is the lower value of what you're paying for that and and that was you know just like how do we dictate to
somebody what they can build on this property well we own it right now until it's over with we can dictate That's Just Thoughts because again believe me I'm with you and I'm sure everybody else is the same we want that vibrant and we want wanted to be when I walked on Braden Beach and the
stores were open till 9:00 you know on on um the main drag there um trying to support and I didn't want to buy what I bought but I bought it because I was trying to support that store you know I didn't need it I wanted to buy it but I didn't need it but again I felt like
walking in and such a nice lady that owned it is like support them especially with what we've been through the storm so Miss Moore um I was so General comments um along the lines of what Mr Perry just said uh we know
this tenant so in my mind they're they're vetted we kind of know what they're about and uh I think that they've proven at least to me personally a dedication to making the space work um I think that the pl their their proposal
for having events to some extent are going to be helpful in the same way that the public market is helpful um I've had a lot of conversations with with all the tenants and they do really rely on the market is my understanding and I would
just I I just want to qualify I like them to be open during the events too but especially now with having done some research on retail analysis and how they come to decide what they're going to spend money on and where they're going to open their businesses and whatnot I would just say that not every event is
the same and so I think while the public market is encourag enaging an element of shopping and you know that sort of exposure some of our evening things you know New Year's Eve comes to mind St Patrick's Day I don't think that those
events are necessarily going to give them that retail bang for their buck and I would just I would just caution us to have like you know very you know maybe uniform you have to be open for every single event because I do think that the
type of event Winter Wonderland is a very good example of an evening one that I think would make sense because of the element of holiday shopping and and that being a little bit more of a family geared event um so that's just my only that's my thought on that and I support
the proposal because I I do think that in the very least I think I can count on this tenant to do their best to make it work no that's basically we're all saying the same thing just trying to get to it because we we want this to succeed
and that's very important so Mr Perry do you need a motion to approve yeah I think I prefer a motion basically to approve Mr proposal by motion to approve the proposal by Amy fleece for rental of an additional City Center Garage retail
space second motion by Vice May Kramer second by Miss Barnaby is there any other discussion hearing none we'll start the vote in award five yes one yes yes two yes three yes four yes carries five to
zero thank you Mr Perry anything else just one other matter and I think it's going to be characterized as new business um as it relates to a letter that I think was sent to council regarding the sidewalk across
from City Hall at the Harley bald it's in front of the Harley bald L office and I believe it was sent to the council yeah it was copi to my office office yours Mr Rudell and the council people yeah okay um I've spoken with Mr
Rudell on this and have asked him to put together he's already put together a letter and sent it back out yeah and it's gone to all the councils I just wanted Council to know that yeah um response of the history and Logistics of what we've done right um we've been
working with them um over the two years now probably three and a half I think it was about longer as as trying to come to a resolution of a building that we used to own and it was purchased by not this
previous or this current owner but just so everybody knows and how much you want to know and what we should say or not shouldn't say but when the sidewalk was put back in for the new streetcape it was put in the exact same place as the old so there was a little bit of what we
understood miscar duration in that letter um and so it's been there for 70 plus years in that same area it hasn't been moved farther onto their property is what they say at that but we looked at a lot of different options Mr Mellen was
still here at that time I believe and it it was going to be a cost and I wasn't willing to take that um on in the mayor's office and say that yes spend the cost take out three
oak trees and move the sidewalk because it would actually take out three oak trees there um and so then we thought it went away I didn't you think it went away Mr rudisell per se huh and it's been gone for a long time and then all of a sudden last week we got that letter
so we were not trying to hide anything we thought we had resolved it with several different options for them but I do think that this may come back but you know once Mr rudo gets his response then we'll
we uh just just to add to that M if I could Mr R actually has taking this on as as you can in you know's he's kind of humorously indicating for for for several years and the in addition to the sidewalk proposal that we did drawings
on and cost it out and then approached um uh Miss petro and aru you know presumably our client um said what else are some options and so we looked at the option basically of providing Insurance
um to the uh Harley bald of that particular property because the concern was and it's mentioned in the letter about the liability issue and um we were able to get certain C certain uh coverages but but not the amount that
was I think sought um as it relates to the full coverage by um Miss petro and and her client and then we looked at the possibility of saying well what we could do basically is we we do an indemnification agreement and say that
we will assume all liability for the public sidewalk because we do believe it's a public sidewalk and if you get to a point where you're going to sell your airspace the sidewalk is a 4 and a half foot encroachment basically that that's what it is if if it's an encroachment at
all let me just preface it there the boundary line it's being asserted is 4 and A2 fet um if the the concept do we also tried to buy that let me start the whole conversation was We did an appraisal I think and got a value and made an offer on that property
originally that came back that no that's not sufficient because now that you've changed the code and we can build up to here um there's airspace and so that 4 and a half feet is multiplied by by you know 20 times up and it's several I think that was highlighted in the letter
the recent letter as well we never quite saw it like that um but we did look at the possibility of saying here's the deal you know if there's a situation where in the future you decide that you're going to sell it um we would can you convey it to us so that we could we
could basically be under our insurance rules and under the law there's caps on that those Insurance rules particularly as it relates to punitive damages and and this caps on general liability and then if necessary we could convey it back to you with a quick claim deed or
the like I mean we have gotten as creative as we possibly could from looking at an insurance perspective a purchase perspective a use perspective please asking please no no no I said a leas remember they oh Elise Elise yeah
Elise and asking please yeah very politely I I think and so you know we're a little bit frustrated as much as Miss Petro is as far as not being able to reach a reach some sort of amicable resolution of this but you did point out that the sidewalk has been there for I
think how many years is it 50 or at least yeah at least 50 years and when this when the downtown was redone it was replaced but it was the same boundary basically was there and the firm itself um I believe only obtained proper I
think that was purchased after the sidewalk was there correct yes yeah as well so so we think we have some claims and I won't get the city at one point owned that property the city the city owned it that's where the team Center was right yeah yeah and and I think the players when no it's it was the teen
center and it was also wasn't a not agf C Carter had his his stock and but we think we have fairly good legal claims uh you know if it was if it was pushed to the the legal limit and we
we continue to amicably try to resolve it and I think that Mr rudel's letter uh goes in that direction of kind of highlighting our position and we'll just have to take it one step at a time I guess all right thank you for that update any questions from Mr Perry
seeing none that was the last item on the agenda right so no Unfinished Business Council reports will start in W two I knew you were going to say that um have been having neighborhood meetings and meeting with
individuals um I will admit some degree of frustration for us not being able to finish certain projects timely I will admit to being frustrated at how long it's taking us to do some of the repairs to our city after
the storm um and a word to the wise is sufficient thank you Mr Mayor thank you Mr K Wow I was still trying to get my stuff together normally you take a little bit longer ma'am do you what you want I'm
good a little song A I me you want good I'm good um obviously we're all else of all the rest of us are probably going mentioned the rata this weekend uh great weather helps for a great turnout um it was a lot of fun the
Drone show the fireworks on uh Friday night everything going and I sure the chief and other Public Safety staff can attest the Chiefs I'm sorry other Public Safety staff can us test that it went pretty much seamlessly
uh which is a testament to the staff that is working basically all year to make sure it works right um one thing I want to mention is a thank you to Pat Hagerty from the Pirates Marauders he's a longtime employee out there Clubhouse manager out
of pirate City and is responsible for all the nice pirate themed name plates that you see in front of us um with the proper spelling of Gonzales more uh but that also prompted us to be able to get him for uh Mr rudil Mr
Williams and the Chiefs um it was a very nice ribbon cutting at a facility that I worked at quite a bit in my tenure with the police department doing off duty security um I remember when it was nothing more than what looked like a
portable at a at a school to uh with nothing but a hot plate to make basically a pot of soup for guys which apparently was pretty good soup um to now a modern major league Level facility
and that's really what is le com's M leom has been made into it's really something I'm quite proud of to be have my name on signs that are posted there so uh other than that thank you very much thank you m Bo
um I uh I was really disappointed as everyone knows to miss the county workshop last Friday because I was not well um but I have begun watching it and so just a couple of notes on that um I
noted that I haven't finished it yet so just intro like preliminary notes um I noticed that uh chairman Cruz expressed an interest in our visioning and I also note that he was here for our Workshop
um originally scheduled to discuss the visioning um and so of course I want to encourage us to come back to that loop back to that and um and pick up that conversation again um and in the spirit of collaboration with the county I think that um I think it's great that they're
interested in in us coming together and honing kind of a more of a definitive plan for what we want to see here and how to get there how to accomplish it um I also had gotten some emails um regarding the skate park and uh Mr
Driscoll is on top of that as well as attorney rutell um but I only raised that because in my conversation with some of the officers uh when I did my ride along they express you know a little bit of their hands being tied because we don't have those facilities yet for the camping law to
really be enforcable or have any teeth to it and so that's another thing I think that just brings to mind our ongoing working with the county I think that's something that we have to kind of maybe continually bring to the Forefront of their minds because I know that they're actively and aggressively
pursuing those type of facilities but we're not there yet and I feel like our potentially the police are a little hamstrung on on being able to be effective um with some of those issues and
uh similar uh to councilwoman Barnaby's uh notes uh I was meant to mention this to um sorry excuse me uh Colonel Lee and uh Mr Williams that the drains after those Reigns in the older part of w four are
have debris in them again um it's just a very treed area so anytime you have one of those you know continually rainy times the leaves and the and the debris gets clogged up in the rain in the in the drains I notice that the manhole
that's sinking on Brown Street no longer has the four posts and the caution tape I don't know if that means it has been fixed or if it is just maybe brain and they got you know who knows what happened there um but I want to thank whoever undertook after a citizen rode
in to tidy up lift station 13 a little bit um it has to be said because I have to say it that we still have some kind of equipment bungee cord to a tree and the you know the generator and the sand
bags so just again can't wait to talk more about lift station 13 and three um because while I appre app the cleanup uh it still is you know not where it totally needs to be uh I think that that
is it for me for word four thank you Miss Coachman thank you I just want to piggy back on something that you said um and I'm GL I'm glad that it was live streamed that you were able to kind of be there with us uh with the uh
collaborative meeting with the county it's a good feeling when two governments work together and from what I understand that wasn't always the case between the city and the county so that is it it's
encouraging um but you did make a comment about um people camping or you know uh causing some people to be um uncomfortable I'm hoping that we really
do get something set up so that we have a place to take you know people who need another location because if we're planning to do what we want to do for city
park if that part of our city my neighborhood if if we can't get that under some control and have have people where they they can be or need to be it's it's we'll we'll still have that
problem of no one wanting to come to leom or in the area in the evening you know F and well 100 p.m. to 4: or 5 but so anyway so I hope we continue working on that um there a lot of good things going on in war five uh even in my
immediate area I think I mentioned it briefly our last meeting we were trying to get out of here so I didn't Bel labor it but um the newly paved Street it's really looking good the Speeders are now able to speed
smoothly and I but I did notice this morning though I guess our rain did cause a little depression on in that on uh Third Street and I think I'll take a little ride around and see if you know I guess new material you know just
couldn't withstand that whatever rain we got um everything good I hear a lot of people still complaining about permits and I'm not sure if this individual contacted everyone but um I will bring
it up um with um permitting after after the meeting um I don't know War five is alive thank you Chiefs and all those folks that keep me feeling safe at night in my
neighborhood all right thank you Miss Coker yeah um not to be redundant but I do want to really extend my sincere thanks to all BPD fire Public Works I know it was a huge undertaking for the rata and I've
heard a lot of really great positive comments out in the community it was a family oriented and they just um it's been all nothing but positive that I've heard and so I thank you for all your efforts because I know um that was quite an undertaking and uh hopefully they'll
be back for the 11th one um I also would like to just encourage everybody to take an opportunity to go to go and experience one of the spring training games and cheer our pirates on um our relationship with them is such I think we're very lucky they're they're very
supportive of us and we're supportive of them and so um I just want to um tell everybody to go and enjoy it it's it's short but sweet and uh I I also wanted wanted to again thank um for the opportunity to meet with the county I
think is something that and I I liked it better than when we had the county of governments Council of governments I feel like we were able to really hone in more on specific things that applied to us and so I would like to encourage that
we keep doing that all right thank you um Mr yes ma Mr I also forgot to say because I missed a lot of the grand openings and ribbon cuting I just want to say congrats to the dedication that was done at leadcom and the opening of
the Hightech all all that and a bag of chips with uh our new PD range in Academy thank you all right so I'll start with rata we figured
15,000 Plus on Friday night which was almost like a normal July 4th or even maybe you know very close to it um and that event just started a couple years ago on Friday night so that was great event and I thought that with working with Colonel Lee and his group obviously
our policeing fire the way things are done but but you know it looked like it should have looked when it was two minutes after it was over you couldn't even tell that anybody had been there so that was a good thing and that's what we want our city to to show what the the
professionals we have all the way through Public Works police fire County EMS you know we could just name them all Coast Guard whoever else Sheriff's Office um and then 85,000 plus is what they got the numbers for Saturday so you
know it truly seemed like it was back totally from the first one all the way through one year we had rain very tough then covid and now so February 21st 2026 is already on the calendar with the
ISM and all the racing so that's you know we'll bring all that back because they're already starting planning now because they got to get the dates in advance um obviously the Pirates and the grand opening the ribbon cutting we did was fun to see that next step because it not only brings us up with Major League
Baseball standards it also brings us up where if the other 10 and a half months a year when we want to have tournament baseball there it gives us an opportunity to be able to use a facility for those tournament baseballs that will be not just for the pirates only you
know the Agreements are being drawn out and worked through so that's going to be exciting to see once city park is finally built and done as we go through and as Miss Coachman has said make it a city park just want to um kind of put
out there in the public that you know people say a lot of things about things on Facebook and neighbors and all of that City Park will be a baseball facility but there will be other City Park our amenities that will be open for the public I don't want to say 247 Mr
Perry but we'll be open so even when the Park's not in use there will be playground areas we're working with the school district working with pal working with all of that so there will be amenities there other than just for baseball when that Park is being used
for tournament baseball things like that so you know our plans are in the process and do it just keep going obviously the county and City meeting is always important um we've said that from day one um and under my Administration that we're going
to we had the first one and then you know things kind of got where they were now we're planning on it and I know they're meeting with paletto next but each one of the items we discussed could have taken all three hours but we had only three hours and I think it's the
right thing to do you're going to see a lot come out of that with traffic studies you're going to see a lot going on with do and the process going through and as I said in that meeting we have to be a little patient and you have to go through the process the patience is not
from 1995 when for whatever reason we didn't get a third Bridge the patience is weeks and months now so let's not try to jump ahead of the process and ruin the process where we then will have to start
over again and I do think there's some people out there that would like that but and all the years that I've been a councilman and now mayor we're close let's let's get to that point of having that alternate traffic that will
alleviate some of the blockage as long as we're growing we're never going to stop at all and that's what we heard this morning at the chamber um with pancakes and politics with our state reps and and Senator you know but if we're moving towards it it's going to
help and what we know that we didn't do 30 years ago let's not be those people that didn't do it now so they're talking about us 30 years later so that's just some things I think we can really keep building on I think we have a great
relationship with the county administratively electeds and our Administration and our electeds to work continue and one of the things that that I was very happy in that meeting was they see the importance of obviously of
us facing and fixing it that we've been doing for years but I think there's opportunity as Mrs Moore alluded to how do you face and fix some things that cost money there's monies out there that we're going to be able to that the county got as a whole not just for
County unincorporated that we're going to be able to hopefully utilize some of that to help um continue the process forward Mr Perry or Mr Colonel Lee you give us an update on the lift station on 27th Street East uh um with the new
bypass pump and Generator and all that that was I saw yesterday maybe Mr Perry could give us on that that's right off that that um we stopped because we thought it was a rain issue and it wasn't it was a very positive issue and that's what we're looking forward to do in all of our lift stations and make
them better well you know we did have the opportunity to stop there it was kind of just by a happen stance we were going out to the uh Law Enforcement Training Center dedication and um our cruise out there and so we're taking a full rehab of that um lift station it's
a major lift station U it's not a master lift station but it is a major list station that handles a great deal of flow that's kind of on the Braden River there um nearby as well as frankly the the minity river because it is its
location is pretty close to that and it had been in need of upgrades to deep well um improvements the pumps the elves and I think the back side of it for bypass there had been a bypass actually
one of the bypass pumps that we use with a generator uh for I don't know a year and a half it's it's been a while that it was out there so it was nice to see basically that were rehabing the totality of that particular lift station the electronics was there and our folks
across the spectrum of Public Works through electrical engineering and and mechanical and uh and some of our other folks from even list uh from from from the the uh water treatment side were there so it was it was really good and
we're really excited about continuing to do those kind of projects well what I was impressed with obviously for a year and a half there's been a bypass pump out there you don't even see the bypass now it's behind the building and that's the goal some of them are going to be harder because they're right on areas
but you know it was something that will sustain especially in a crucial area closer to the Bren River and a neighborhood that we have to have 6 feet plus of water now covering our whole land before that would ever fail and one
of the things we you know will'll be bringing back to the council probably pretty soon is some opportunity how those maintenance projects on those products will be going forward with the rest of our maintenance that may have been deferred that may have put us in
the situation we're now now face it and fix it what's taken 40 years to get to isn't going to take us 40 days to fix so and I I'm saying that for the public too we are doing that we are working with the county we are working with our state legislators we are working with grants
to make things better I know this prolong in the meeting but I really think it's important for people to hear you can have somebody come up and throw out propaganda at the beginning of a meeting it's just not true and personal attacks which we will not have that again I won't to let allow that to
happen again but I allowed it to happen now because you look at the character of the person that's spewing the crap and we're going to fix the crap and maybe it's you know appropo but we're
not going to keep going that way um Chief why don't you I know you might have done it anyway but give us an update on the Law Enforcement Academy building just real quick um thanks for several of you who had the opportunity to come out I I know it's a long ways uh but I I think it's going to be a well
worth it facility we'll come up with a couple dates to invite youall to come back and um shoot guns and drive cars fast and um there'll be no pitting because we don't allow that here at the police dep Department um but uh
everybody's really excited about it and um I've gotten some phone calls already FHP uh some of the other area agencies that want to know when it's open for business so I I really think when you come out there you're going to see um an incredible opportunity of law
enforcement training but beyond that uh my vision um although I'm going to be kind of trying to push it really quick and and somebody hopefully will carry that torch beyond my time is to extend it to our our professional Partners our business
partners uh we want to create a u a team building type um obstacle course that allows them to to come out and and do all kinds of stuff I mean it's 70 Acres out there we just have so much opportunity to to Really merge with our our
community Business Leaders to to turn it into something that is going to be much greater I think than we ever imagined so um and thanks for the comments uh I I feel like my my planning crew I know Captain the did a did a great job with
um some of the lieutenants and sergeants and putting together a very fortified rata um maybe more than you've seen in in past years but I think given the state of um our nation right now um with some of the the terrible incidents we've seen it was appropriate and I heard
nothing but reviews and and people just felt good and and safe um I'm getting a lot of good reviews for downtown right now and so keep that in mind when youall see my overtime budget but um beyond that um I I and I you didn't mention it
mayor but you know traffic seemed to do pretty well yesterday um I'm going to do that we'll see how we'll see how it does today but getting folks in and out of the game we have a few more day games in front of us but so far so good seem to flow a little bit better but thank you well and again people don't think we
think about traffic we have an officer almost several times a day that drives the lights and makes sure that they're synced we're looking at it some of the other opportunities that we have to look at lights keeping it going is very important so and also um you know has
anybody ever gone to a large sporting event and when you get out of your car you don't normally get to tell the police where you're going to go they tell you which direction to go because they are the professionals that know the traffic flow at the moment and it so far
it's been lighter games we'll see today and then Friday but tra traffic is being directed South to go north so we don't bottleneck our downtown at that time 4:00 again it's an evolving plan captain
the's again with his whole crew is doing a great job at seeing that and how we do it so you know I'm just impressed with the the opportunity that people think sometimes we're not listening or looking we are listening and looking when we talk about traffic downtown um and I
just think that we have opportunities to continue to positively fix some of that infrastructure that patience is important and um I think Chief the other thing that I want to say on that the law enforcement building out there with the
school district Tech you know it's really School District man Technical College in the city of Bradenton is that's another collaboration that would have probably never happened in the past and the school district had the money didn't know they were going to spend as much as they did but it had to be done
we had the land and this Council I think with three Renditions of the land finally gave what we needed and it's only going to be something that's positive um I heard that small small fire trucks might be able to drive out there no not big fire
truck more than that but well our little our little Pumpers for learning that that's a lot that's they weigh less than our uh swap trucks so anything weighs less than a SWAT truck maybe but um that'll be depends who's driving
it but no it's something that definitely is is a positive working with our school district right now with city park and the the obviously the county the TDC the federal the state and the school district because some of the things in the school district and we did like to
hear that this morning that any infrastructure money that comes in should stay in the neighborhood it's in will you think about the urban core what that will bring School District money with some of these developments over the next three to five years will bring into the school district we're going to try
to keep them in the urban core for our Title One schools and our so and I think the school district right now is very applicable to listening and seeing what we can put out there to help the children of the urban core in a better way so um that's all I've got is there
any other department heads that have anything I would just ask Colonel Lee again if we can get a Paving plan sometime in the near future because there's been a lot of Paving that's been done which has been great in all the wards but we'll at least have a plan
going forward for the rest of this year as well as looking at and having council members maybe bring up a road or two they might see that could be something on next year's budget ideas but Mr Perry anything else no sir
all right here that we'll be adjourned for