I love that. So I mean some throwing around here. >> I decided to include you in my uh do this in every council meeting. Oh yeah. >> Mayor, do you want Eric and sing for the next five minutes before anything else?
just >> I'd love to see >> karaoke. Yeah, let's do Is he here? >> Yeah. Yes, you're going to handle the seats.
>> I know. You're saying that we need more seats. >> No, I said I was going to sit in the audience. >> Oh, I know. >> They said sit here. >> Oh, definitely. Now there's all the speakers. >> Yeah. >> There's no there's no like fire
ordinance that says people can't stand that. I apologize. actually they're actually No, I did see that. But it's just I feel like we 29.
Yeah. realized >> I just just sounds. >> There you go. So, it's moving very slow. >> So, he should be here by 4:39. >> Oh, 4:39. Yeah. Oh, that's good.
You really don't have to, but >> you know what's going on is probably >> Good evening. Good evening everyone. Um, our burough attorney is running a few minutes late, so we'll probably say it. We'll probably commence the
meeting in about five to 10 minutes. So, remain comfortable and my apologies. We just want to make sure I I can imagine what a number of your questions are and our attorney is very likely to want to be involved in helping provide answers. So, give us a few minutes and hopefully
he'll be here soon. >> And there are two two open seats up front if anyone cares to sit up front. >> Nobody. >> There's one. There is one open seat. No, don't worry about always far better
Maryanne got her first acting. >> Yeah, >> that's a short film. She was up in North Jersey. >> It was a real stretch. She had to play businesswoman. >> But she didn't. She thought she was going to be in the background. >> Yeah. >> Just like baking coffee.
>> But she actually had some lines. They gave her some lines and they asked her to come back and do a dinner right now. beat his wife over the moonstead. >> Well, you know, you know what her goal was? >> Yeah. >> To be a dead body. >> I got to do that. >> You did? Dead body.
>> What if it was like Christmas? Yeah. >> So, she was she's like walking right now. >> I could. >> Yeah. Give you a comb. That's how to give you a comb. Yeah. She got her head shot and everything. >> I only
have to get speaking before. >> If you ever want to speak, it's nice to meet >> D. Any lines? Great. Right. >> How you guys doing? >> Oh, I know. I know. I was surprised all right.
>> It's crazy. >> It'll be fun. >> Yeah. So he knows that you're going to reach out through >> I owe those I've been promising those guys a pizza lunch for a while. So maybe I'll just combine the two. I'll set up a date with him like sometime before the
holidays. But they do such great jobs. >> Got my solar in today. Got solar on the roof today. Yeah. We put it 12. >> No, no. I did a shed.
>> I did a shed room. >> So, we we had the old cave. low paid. So on and single pitch on well. >> So we put in a heat. Yeah. and they said you can't
spray the rest of the so we took those out almost new stainless steers. Yeah. So condensing.
>> Oh. noticing that I found and I found of this >> I don't want to break the wire. >> Okay. Ladies and gentlemen,
>> just as an update, >> just a quick update. Our attorney is now minutes away and he was stuck in traffic. Just a few folks have come in the room. We're waiting to start the meeting. So, uh, appreciate your patience and we'll be get we'll be underway soon. >> Yes. Yeah.
Ice is also >> and they're all weird >> Oh, yeah. >> No, this was totally flat, >> you know. It was one Yeah. >> Stop gallery.
technically should no hair, no rest. >> Yeah. It's even better. I hate Starbucks. They have a coffee machine. It's so good. The cappuccino tastes just
as good as I got a machine. I'm like, there's no way this is going to be. And it's like, oh, it's like >> Oh, you know, great. He'll be late. I could a lot of straws.
>> I got new straws. I see that. >> It looks like a fight. >> Starts talking real fast. >> Got a triple shot there. Call this meeting to order. Please stand for the pledge of >> allegiance.
Pledge allegiance to the flag of America, to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I wish to announce that the 48 hour notice is required under the open public
meetings act was emailed to the Aspbury Park Press, the Co-Star and the New Coaster on December the 19th of 2024. That a copy has been placed on the bulletin board in the Burough Office and that a copy has been filed with the municipal clerk. Please be advised public attendance for meetings through
Zoom is a courtesy only. If for any reason Zoom fails or is disconnected, the in-person meeting will continue without interruption and action can and will be taken provided providing there is an inperson council quorum. Mr. Noble >> here, >> Miss Greenblat
>> here, >> Mr. Nikki >> here, >> Mr. Weber >> here, >> Mayor Gubosi >> here. >> Good good evening ladies and gentlemen. Uh it's wonderful to see such public participation. where you say that now.
>> We t we typically have 10 or 15 folks which we welcome. So this is wonderful to see so many faces. Um as many of you are aware we normally hold we the burough of Bradley Beach normally hold uh two two
council business meetings a month January through October. November is usually one meeting. December is usually one meeting. Uh this is a special meeting. This is will be our second meeting for November. Um, and we've set that up for a couple reasons. Um, and
that's why it's an odd time, 4:30. There are a couple unusual rules I'll just take you through really quick. Um, but a special meeting is is intended to be fairly narrowly focused. So, we don't do broad business uh work in such a special
meeting. Um, we do have one bond ordinance that we're going to introduce tonight. on on any on any ordinance introduction. There is no public comment. Uh you have public comment on ordinances that are amendments that are being adopted. We do have two ordinances
that are up for adoption. And for both of those, the public will be uh allowed five minutes each to comment up to five minutes each to comment on each of those ordinances that we'll look to adopt. Uh normally we have mayor and council
reports at the end of a normal business meeting. We will not have those tonight. And normally we we offer two opportunities outside of the ordinance adoptions. We offer two opportunities for public comment. One up front. The one up front you'll hear about more in a
second. Um that is open to items specific to tonight's agenda. Usually at the end of the meeting, we have a second opportunity for public comment to to ask questions or make comments about anything period outside of the agenda as
well. We will not have that second public comment opportunity. So if any of you want to talk about any other issues that are not on the agenda, um you can save yourself some time and and you know, come back at our next meeting in December because you won't have that
opportunity to talk to them. However, if it's on the agenda, you're welcome to add comments, uh questions, whatever you might have. So, uh with that said, I'm going to move on with the uh agenda items. Um we've completed roll call, so we're moving to
item five on the agenda, public comments and questions on agenda items only. And as I mentioned moments ago, up to uh up to five minutes. And then at that point a little bell will go off and we will ask you to to complete your comments. Um
and keep in mind you will separately have an opportunity to discuss or ask comments or questions about either of the uh the two ordinances that we're going going to adopt. So with that said um let's open it up to the public just for any comments about tonight's agenda.
Yes ma'am. >> Um good evening council members and Mr. Mayor. My name is Tia Den and I am a non-resident beach locker renter here to raise several concerns regarding the proposed ordinance. I'm here today because I did not receive notice of this ordinance until Friday, November 21st. I
did not receive prior notice despite how my interests will be affected by passage of this ordinance. My family had to wait several years for a beach locker. So, I understand the frustration that residents of Bradley have expressed. But passing this ordinance is not the right way to resolve this issue. The mayor indicated that he has always believed
the public trust doctrine to apply here and that understanding was absolutely correct. The public trust doctrine stands for the idea that the municipality does not own the beaches. Rather, the municipality owns the land and trust for the common public. Under this doctrine, the general public has a guaranteed right to reasonable access to
the trust lands to include recreational uses and accessibility beyond the foreshore to the beaches and the upper dry sand areas. I asked you to revisit your analysis on whether the public trust doctrine applies here because I truly believe it does. In fact, I believe it applies in multiple ways. First, the beach lockers themselves are
physically placed directly on sandy beach areas that are used for recreational activities such as beach volleyball. By physically piecing these lockers on this area, you are taking up prime real estate belonging to the general public. If you limit the usage of this space, it is no different than roping off a portion of the beach and
saying it is from use by residents only. As you know, Alenhurst cannot limit their membership of their beach club to residents only. It's open to both residents and non-residents. It's the law that the burrow cannot set aside part of the dry sand beach for use by residents only. Another issue is that
the public trust doctrine requires that beach utilities funding and township general funding are accounted for separately. Beachfront revenues can only be used for beachfront related expenditures. The municipality is not permitted to use beachfront revenues to pay for general township expenses. The
law is that the municipality cannot operate the beach area as though it were a business for the sole benefit of the municipality's taxpayers. These these beach lockers were built and maintained using beach utilities funding. I have not heard heard discussions on whether the general fund will be compensating
beach utility funds for all 450 lockers that are being converted. The lockers are property or assets that belong to beach funding. And by moving the property to the general fund, you convert beach funded assets into general funding assets. If you do not properly compensate the beach utilities fund,
that will be a misappropriation of beach utility funding for the sole benefit of Bradley taxpayers. This is similar to charging for beach parking and using those revenues to pay for general funding items. That is what Belmar did and they got into a lot of trouble for doing that. Further, I believe one council member noted that Caffer
approval must be sought to place these lockers on the sand. I'd like to know if the burrow has reached out to D to review of this issue to determine if there are any public access requirements the bureau has as a result of any permit approvals. I've reached out to D for inquiry. If the bureau has not done so,
I would request that council hold off on adopting this ordinance tonight and have someone contact DEP. There are two questions that I think that are being confused here. The first first seems to be the question whether um you're required to provide beach lockers. The answer to that is no, you're not
required to provide beach lockers. But that's not the question here because Bradley does in fact provide beach lockers. The issue here is since Bradley provides beach lockers and you use a public um public space to house those lockers, is the burrow permitted to
discriminate between who can use those lockers? The answer is you cannot. Equal access is fundamental to the principles of the public trust doctrine. While the bureau is not required to provide amenities when it decides to bring provide them, discrimination based on residency is not permitted. Finally, if
this ordinance is passed, I believe the burrow will be in breach of the contract that the burrow has with all of the renters you're seeking to eject. There is a two-e structure of the beach lockers. The initial fee is substantially higher and Councilman Noiki noted that this initial fee is used to construct the locker. The mayor referred to this as a buyin. With this
buyin, renters all have a property interest in the lockers and under the terms of the contract with the burrow, the renters are specifically given a right of first refusal to renew the lease of the locker every year. By passing this ordinance, the burrow is not only breaching its end of the bargain and violating the terms of the contract, it is also stripping ownership
rights of the renters. Although it was mentioned previously that renters would receive their buyin money back, that has since been stripped away by the proposed ordinance. It is my understanding that council is relying on other towns doing this to justify what you're doing here. I question whether you consider distinctions between what you do here and what goes on there. For instance,
are those lockers standalone or are they an amenity provided as part of a beach club? Where are those lockers located? And did they use general funding or beach utility funding to pay for their lockers? These are all questions that were not publicly considered in your prior meetings. Just because the other towns are doing it does not make it
right, nor will it guarantee that the town will win in the event of a lawsuit. I conclude with a request that the council reconsider this ordinance and go back to do some further research and analysis. There are better ways to resolve this problem and this is not the way to do it. Thank you, >> Mr. Mayor.
Everyone, thank you very much. Very succinct. And in a minute, I'm going to ask because I imagine many of you will raise similar issues. I'm going to ask our uh attorney, Mr. Greg Canon, to speak to some of the points you raised. Um I I will ask a couple things. One is
I understand you you're very uh impassionate about this issue. I 100% understand. I'm still going to ask you to refrain from applauding or booing. Uh, you know, you can shake hands and pat folks on the back if you would, but try to maintain the decorum just for our
proceedings tonight. And John, will you start say? >> Yeah, just what's your your address? We actually ask people to say their address and I say it's emphasizing this for everybody. If you haven't done this before, just say your name and address. >> Uh, my name is Tia J. I'm at 147 Cookman in Ocean Grove. Thanks. Thank you. >> Okay, great. Um, so again, many of you
may have similar comments, but Mr. Canon just to just to address some of the issues that this very eloquent speaker uh made. Can you can you provide an overview of why you believe we are acting within the law and >> Well, I mean very simply to the speaker
pretty did a very open job of explaining um the beach access rules and what the public trust doctrine is. Um the courts have held that parking and bathrooms which are two specific items that were noted
by the speaker are u necessary amenities um or things that in relate directly to beach access. So obviously beach badges are highly regulated only certain discounts you can provide certain rates you can provide right um parking is a more recent
example of a court case that came down but they were not allowed to discriminate in the parking fees. also the Belmar case and then bathrooms um the notion that the bathrooms are available they need to be available to everyone because it's a many that's required as public health and other considerations court spaces have not
been extended to other amenities you heard the word beach club there's a number of beach clubs that are resident only right um and these lockers um are an amenity provided by the town so um it's a and it's a double-edged sword right so that's the public policy behind
beach access and open and equal access to everyone at the beach notwithstanding its control by a certain group of people in certain areas aka the residents who govern and are given municipal control of the beach. The other side of that is and the courts have recognized this in
the cases that were the case law the principles that were being espoused there. Um, if you require a municipality to provide every single amenity that they have at the beach to every single person that goes to the beach, then that will that will naturally result in
municipalities providing fewer amenities and a worse beach. And so the courts have specifically not extended the public access public trust option to anything at this moment beyond parking and bathrooms. And so the other amenities and and without getting into
the very detailed nuance or there's contract laws cited there too. I'm sure you know I'm not sure that that's been fully considered in the moment. Um but with respect to the public trust do action the court has not extended it to beach law fairs or every single amenity at the beach. That's not that's not how
not how the case law is developed. It and and and sitting here as of today is is permissible to juven the ordinance. It's my opinion that it's legal and you can look to surrounding towns that have functionally the exact same ordinance. There's five of them um in within 10
miles that have that do exactly what you guys are are is on the table to be done tonight. Um so, you know, in that respect, I'm comfortable. That being said, um may the court extend it to beach lockers tomorrow or the next day or in the future? Uh the public tr trust
doctrine as was the thoughts by the speaker has been continually extended to include things other than just your traditional pay to right to actually access the beach. You heard dry sand. There's been a difference between the mean eye tideline and sand and what is the public actually is responsible for and all those little nuances. Could
these nuances change to include beach lockers in the future? Yes. I can't guarantee you that and I don't think any attorney can really guarantee you of anything. That's our that's our business I think. Um but uh you know that's where we're at today and it's a policy decision at its core. I think it is
legal whether it's advisable um you know or whether there are other contract considerations that come into play as well for people who paid money and things for a right that's being rescended. You know, those are separate questions, but the public trust do action, I'm comfortable sitting here today that the court has not extended it to amenities and and and like I said,
the back side of that sword is if if everyone naturally people are the kayak rentals will go away. S we have a surf camp here, right? Like so if we have to provide it to everyone um at the same price then that that's going to stop a lot of beach amenities and the courts have recognized that and the cases are specifically limited to those bathrooms
and parking at the moment um are the two the two largest ones of public concern particularly in the recent um uh disputes but these disputes are virtually annual and perennial just like the summer season. So, like I said, you know, when this is uh it's a policy
decision, you guys what you want to do. >> So, and the speaker raised a few other quick questions that I just want to address around finance. Um the current lockers that exist have not been funded with beach utility funds. They've been privately contracted with folks in the
burrow and outside of the burrow, but they have not been blended in any way. They've been very specifically segregated from other beach utility revenues. Um, and costs, as many of you know, and I'll say this for the record for everybody knows, costs within the Burough Breley Beach, uh, to to maintain
these lockers, rebuild them, repair them, purchase new ones are also assigned to the beach utility. Uh, I've already talked with our CFO. If we were to move forward tonight with this, um, we would have to take all of that activity, the revenue, and the costs out
of the beach utility funding financing and move it into the current funds. So, um, just to try to address some of the points you made, um, I think what you're going to find and and I don't want to curtail any of this conversation, but what you're going to find is this group
sitting here, we are not the legal experts. So, you can make your arguments and Mr. Canon will certainly take them all into account. But we are being told that this is something that is our decision that uh u favoring residents
over non-residents is not um is allowed is not prohibited under the public trust doctrine. So if that is in fact the legal status, what the rest of us are doing here tonight is just determining knowing that as a fact, what
is in the best interest of Bradley Beach residents? So I know that sounds harsh. We serve Bradley Beach residents. I'm speaking really for myself. That's the crux of the decision for me. It's not about what's fair, what's right, what it
it's it's what in my opinion, I'm a count I'm a mayor, but whether it's mayor or council, we serve Bradley Beach. So, just understand if you want to make legal arguments, we're going to have to deal with Mr. Cannon. Other questions about finance, by all means, I'll do my best to answer them. So, with
that said, sir, please. >> Yeah, I'm sorry I stood up in front of everything. No, that's fine. I sent beach lockers. Mine was short and sweet. Bet that I won't stay and listen to everybody else. >> But mine is less less technical, but may I'll take care of that.
>> My name is Robert Oaks. I live at 62 Clark Avenue, Ocean Grove. >> And uh I sat in the classroom the other day. Had a little break in the action and I uh came up with this. Um again, my name is Robert Oaks. Me and my entire
large family have been coming to Kent Avenue Beach for 60 years now. Uh we still have the same lifeguard who now is a captain on our beach. My son grew up on this beach as now my three-year-old grandson does. Uh we love this family
oriented beach and have met many friends and acquaintances. One of my yearly Christmas gifts is to buy uh beach badges for everyone in my immediate family. I have four older sisters who come with their children and their children's children. Uh, the beach
locker has been a blessing since day one it was established. I've had one at least from the very first year it was offered. I was able to fit seven chairs and four beach umbrellas in a locker with a three-year-old and four sisters in their late 70s and early 80s. It made
it possible for all of us to get together much easier than trying to cart all this stuff uh down there. Uh like my when my son was young, it was like a donkey carrying old stuff down. But um I request that there could be a grandfather clause where we could
continue to lease and you build new ones for residents as well. Along with this proposal, no new lockers will be issued to non-residents from this point on. Worst case scenario, I would like to take advantage. I think there's a one-year extension of the current
renters's u uh adoption in this proposal. Um, that's all I have to say. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Other comments or questions? Mr. Go ahead.
>> Um, this is the agenda for our mayor. I just had a question about uh the bond ordinance. Uh, apparently it looks like you uh you're rejecting the bids tonight for the >> for the bathrooms. As you're possibly
aware, we had an earlier bond ordinance uh for half a million dollars. We anticipated the bids for the construction would be well below that. >> And in fact, the low bid was 632,000 more than we had bonded for. So, this is an amendment to the earlier bond
ordinance uh increasing our ability to borrow to to conduct the >> And then based on based on that the loss of time, will it be open for the summer? Uh we're going to make sure we do everything in our power to not interrupt
the summer beach activity. The hope is depending on how bids come through and how weather cooperates. Uh we'll have phases to construction. We have to fill in some sellers or vaults. Uh I'm looking at our engineer. Um we can do
that. It's underground work first. uh that also requires removing uh you know uh pipes and materials. We at a minimum we can get that done during the winter months. Then the question is the the conversion to bathrooms. If we can't get
that done before Memorial Day, we'll probably put that off. U my hope is we'll be able to do it before Memorial Day. >> Okay. And then the authorizations for the sale of the lots, I only see three there. >> One is already closed. >> Oh, okay. And th those three remain open
at this point. >> Anticipate that to be this calendar year. >> Mr. Canon, yes, we do. And Greg, what's your timing at this point? >> I'm hoping within the next two weeks. I'm hoping to get uh I have two lined up for early the week after Thanksgiving.
And I had one that I thought was going to post tomorrow. Um if I can get connected to the internet and see what emails arrived in the last hour driving. >> Thanks so much. Yes, sir. >> Hello.
>> My name is Bill Kelly 99 Avenue in uh Neptune City. >> Um, full disclosure, I've been on the waiting list three years. This is about lockers. Um, so I'll start by saying I totally get it, right? And I understand it's a challenging position you're in. If I was a Bradley Beach resident, I
would want a locker. So, I totally get that. I guess my question and maybe you guys have already done the due diligence on this is instead of the proposition being exclusive restrictive meaning just putting the arms around who can have it. Has there been thought and consideration given to expanding it where towns like
Bradley Beach and others are always dying to get more revenue and not raise taxes. So, has the con consideration given to allowing people that are on the waiting list that are outside Neptune City, outside Bradley and are have
lockers that are outside Bradley to remain and adding more lockers and charging more money for for residents that are not part of Bradley Beach. Has that been considered and thought through? >> Yes. Uh the the quick answer, and by the
way, you're about the 1,000th person who's asked that question. >> Okay. So sorry. >> No, no, not at all. It's such an obvious question. If anyone else I imagine everyone else is probably thinking that >> um I asked this question before I was on the council five or six years ago, right? >> Um
>> our Bradley Beach's challenge is we have some additional space on the beach itself on the winter. I've done some research towards the challenge, right? All five there's 500 lockers today. >> All those 500 lockers are in that parking lot on Ocean Kent.
>> Yes. So the challenge is not on the beach, right? The challenge is the winter storage. And to really annoy a lot of residents that come to this town and spend money, not residents. We can't The issue is,
and I'm being sarcastic, the issue is not being able to find a place to put another 300 lockers in the winter. That's the challenge. >> That is the challenge. And by the way, >> again, we had to we had to decide before we enter the, you know, the season where we're selling beach badges and
everything. Sure. But, uh, we are still exploring are there properties that we could rent outside of Bradley Beach >> to make it cost effective, but but yes, as simple as it sounds. >> Okay. >> That's our challenge right now that we don't have the >> And there's 500 lockers and 300 people
or so on the waiting list. Yeah. Right. So, in the I'm just spitballing here. In the uh outside the parking lot on Ocean Avenue, that same amount of space, why couldn't we cordon that off? And it's not going to be used a lot in the
winter. Why can't lockers be put there? >> Yeah. >> I lived there. >> I lived there. I look, right? So, so really comes down to winter storage. >> I mean, if people have thoughts and ideas, we're talking to other municipalities. Can we rent space there and and can we rent it, you know,
economically so it's not costing the burough money, >> but um but it's really not about trying to create more of a profit. We historically this has been merged with the beach utility. It doesn't help our residents >> cost, right? There's no real profit
involved, right? So how do we know how many non-residents are currently have lockers and how many are on the witness approximately? We we know approximately do not hold me to this because Bradley Beach hasn't always tracked that because it didn't matter. >> Right. Right. Right.
>> But but roughly we estimate that there could be uh out of 500 plus lockers there could be 200 folks that are outside Bradley. >> That was the number I used. >> So that so so 20% around 20%. Right. >> So around 40%
>> 20 out of 500. >> Oh I was thinking of the 800. Sorry I was thinking of the 500 plus the plus. So, there's another 40% on the waiting list, I think, >> right? Because I just did the math and like a non-resident myself, if I got called, I would pay $800. I would pay $800, right? I mean, there's literally
people that were standing outside in the rain today >> to give money to the town >> and towns are always looking for new revenue. And the challenge is we can't figure out a place to put 300 lockers in the all season. That >> that really is the challenge. I I have I've I've spent hours for everybody's
benefit truly hours working with our uh DPW supervisor. Uh there's all these logistical challenges about the use of heavy equipment and where you you can't even drive on roadways. That really is their challenge at the moment. >> I mean, that's $200 times 200 more lockers. That's 40
grand that town could use >> plus renewal fee. Make it $50 extra per person non-residents for renewal fee. That's another $10,000. It it just seems like for all the bad will that's being created by this, as Mr. Weber pointed out, people that won't
come to the town, it can raise revenue. It can make people happy when we just need to figure out a way to store them. >> And I I love this council. Trust me, I love this council. The Jane great neighbor, she lends me stuff. I love your ocean preservation stuff. I love seeing you at uh
>> uh post stuff. And I promised my Neptune City neighbors not to let Bradley Beach residents have park four blocks away in the restaurant. But kidding aside, >> to your point, it's that simple. It really is that simple. We would love to uh provide lockers to all. We would love
to have extra money in our coffers in Bradley Beach. >> It's not It's truly not about the money. It's if you come up with a good idea for storing these loggers that our DPW says they can they can use, they can move them on appropriate roadways with
appropriate heavy equipment and all the issues that they face. Um, it would be something I haven't heard before. >> Yeah. Okay. I mean, just >> Yeah. >> logistics, people move cars and vans and houses across the country and to figure out that we can't figure out a way to put a couple hundred lockers somewhere in the offseason.
>> Yeah. Can can I just add Bradley is 6 of a square mile in size. We are a tiny town. Probably the only size town immediately near us is is Avon. So some of these other towns have much more space for storage. >> Well, again, so to that point, maybe I'm
missing something. Does it have do they have to be stored on town property in season? >> They don't have to be. We we could rent sto space, but it takes up so much space. They can't be stacked, >> right? Okay. So you you're you're taking a lot of space and if someone wants to charge us $100,000 and we can earn
50,000, you know, we we got a price. >> So thank you. So it comes down to the the storage. Yeah. >> And and I So I'm sure somebody's thinking, well, if we add the 300 people on the waiting list, the 500 more people are going to want it. So stop. We'll see. I'd say stop people that are on the waiting list and let let that happen. But
>> okay, so it's over. Wow. It's just storage. Anyone come up with good ideas, please let it appreciate you. Appreciate everybody. I suppose the time limit on this start. >> Yes. And and I'll I'll try to uh adhere to that better. People are asking
questions that I think everybody else wants to hear answers to. So I'm talking normally. Normally I just let you talk. Five minutes are up. You sit down. I'm trying to help the process by share them. >> Yes, sir. >> In the back. Yeah. All right. In a
second here. Thanks. Rebecca Katlin 409. I actually was going to speak to the parking tonight and I'm happy to come back and speak about that if it flows better in the meeting. But something Mr. Mayor just said struck me. You said it's not about being fair. Your
primary concern is the residents of this town. That's true. But if I may, let's not forget non-residents are enormously important to Brad Beach. Main Street is nothing without non-residents. There are enough people in in towns to sustain the
fantastic Main Street that we have. Non-residents pour millions of dollars into our beaches. I'm sure there are non-residents in this room who spend way more money in the economy in Bradley Beach than I do sitting on my porch or sitting in my backyard. So yes, your primary responsibility is to the
residents of this town, but your responsibility also is to make sure that we have open and happy communications with non-residents who continue coming to this town and giving us their month and everything else. So thanks. I'll be back when traffic comes along. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Yes, ma'am. I'll get to the folks on Zoom in a minute or two. >> Hi, my name is Zimmerman. 23 years ago, I retired. I just bought a house on Ocean Park Avenue and I've lived here full-time since that. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> I've had a ler since they were offered. >> And I guess my only complaint, and it's kind of petty, but when I first got my locker, there were a handful. It was wonderful. You know, I had to walk two steps to my lap. Now that I'm 83, I had
a stroke. I have to walk halfway down to the next beach to get to a lock. And I just thank for the amount of taxes we pay. I love this town dearly. I I sort of got here by accident, thank God, and I'm enjoying it intensely. But
I think that we need to pay attention to the residents to give them full value for what we pay in taxes. And you know that that's just my opinion. Like I said, it gets harder and harder to walk
to my locker even though I since I had a stroke and I don't qualify. I don't want a handicap lock. I'm able to walk, but it's just it's getting kind of ridiculous with the number of lockers out there. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Thank you everyone for taking your time out to listen to this um kind of controversial topic. Um I don't usually go on to Facebook very much and I'm like, "Oh my god, it was it it's pretty wild the comments that were there." To
the last woman, I just need >> Oh, the address. Pardon me. and Ann Gore. >> Mhm. >> 840 4th Avenue, Neptune City. >> Okay. And I'm sorry, what was your name? >> Ann Gore. G O R R. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Um, I couldn't move. I moved to this
area six years ago. Wanted to live in Bradley Beach. That was my focus and couldn't find a home that I didn't have to buy at my rate and then raise it, right? So, I did the next best thing. I went to live live in the condos in Bradley Park, which is across the street. Memorial Avenue divides me and
that is what divides keeps me from being but when I ask somebody where do I live? I live in Bradley Bradley Beach and I live in Bradley. That's what I tell people. So, mayor, I I I took umbrage with your It's not about what's fair. It's only about
our people. I thought that was a little tough to hear, but and I understand it. But to the last gentleman's conversation, I'm here 12 months out of the year. I I rarely go anywhere else but patronize Bradley Beach, you know,
um, establishments and I bring all my friends and neighbors and they're like, "This is just such a lovely town." And so commerce is a huge part of your industry. And there runs that risk of what's fair and what's right. And I
understand the need that the la the last woman said something is I use my tax dollars. These are not tax dollars. The Bradley Beach lockers have nothing to do with your tax dollars. They're an option. And um I would also say somebody ought to give an allowance to her. Like
that ought to be somebody ought to have a contact for her to be able to be placed closer rather than further down the beach with or without the handicap. There have to be medical exceptions. But to me, I I think what would be helpful would be if you could go back. I had to sign a contract. Those contracts, you
have them all. They all say where people live. It would be very helpful to find out how many people actually are in stayings instead of saying I think it's 20. I think it's 15. I think it's that. But I moved here 6 years ago, knew I was staying in Bradley Beach. Put my name on the locker weight list and I'm on 4th
Avenue after waiting for 3 years. Apparently on Facebook, people are saying they're waiting 10, 12, 15 years. I don't know that that weight list is going to be any helpful more helpful for them because they're apparently on a beach that doesn't move. Like nobody's leaving those areas. So, I feel very blessed that I bought a beach walker.
Um, oftentimes I take my bug and I walk the eight blocks, but I am so blessed to be in this area. So, as a local, I think it I think you need to give some some views to how you're going to handle this and not tick off everybody in the world, right? There's, you know, I
literally I don't I walked to all my restaurants. I'm very happy not going anywhere else. And I know that there's plenty of other people that are like me, not only in my own town home community, but I know other people that have lived in other communities. So, I really think yes, your your diligence is to your
people, but your people are also the extended locals who are supporting your community and and if you can't find it in your hearts to figure out a way or can't figure out, I'm happy. I'm I do research and data analysis all day long. And I don't belong to your town, but I would be happy to help you do some
diligence if it meant that you could find someplace to put those lockers for storage. There has to be a way to do that. Um, and that way you'll you'll be able to balance, you know, residents and non-residents. If it comes down to it and you can't see it to say, I'm going
to maybe charge a high a higher fee for people that are out of town or I'm going to keep it the same and get, you know, take people from both sides of the all sides of the um forum. Okay, if that's the way it goes, okay, I wouldn't be happy. But I would really ask, could we be grandfathered in? We've
been here. We've got our notes. We got our stuff. I paid my $575 in 2023 to get on the list and I pay my $200 or whatever. I think it's $200 a month a year. I again, if you need to make a differential between residents and non-residents on the use of that
facility, like the gentleman said, I don't think people would be highly upset knowing that they can still keep a locker. Um, I would like to find out how many on item B3 on your on your um ordinance. It talks about how many people are renting lockers that are, you
know, they have multiple properties and they have a lock multiple lockers. I I think that that's something we should have done a long time ago. There should only be one person having a locker, not, you know, I own five homes and I'm going to get it for all five. I think that's a very clear place to start right away.
even even if you don't settle this um discussion tonight because I think with the number of people you have in this room I don't think you can make your decision tonight if you can then the the use of this meeting was feudal right um so to me I'd like you to come back and
tell us how many people live here how many people don't live here how many people have the the B the B3 number come prepared with stats people People People need stats they need to know what places have you looked at how much money would it cost us to do those things? All of
those things are ways that in a business world we make decisions. We don't just come in and say we we feel this or we can't do that. There has to be a way to get around this problem. And however you do that, I would ask that you not make a decision on adopting this ordinance
tonight until you've done further due diligence. Thank you so much for your time. >> Thank you for your comments. Uh in the back end, I'll get you done. Hi, I'm Eileen Tom. I'm from Tom River in Ocean County. Uh I am 60 years old.
My parents had a house on the cave. Uh I'm born in May. They bought it in April. So for my entire life, we've been coming to Bradley Beach. My family sold their house uh maybe 20 years ago. Still to this day, the entire family comes to
Bradley Beach. Every uh as soon as I can take off of work, I come then. But every weekend, we're here as an entire family, friends, Bradley Beach, and thing our life. I live in Ocean County. There's a ton of beaches there. And you know, they're pretty popular. I want nothing
to do with it. But when I read this and I I had the locker, it's on the waiting list. I want to say 10 years ago. Waited two years. Got lucky, got the locker. My mom is now 83 and when she comes to the beach herself, she's not wherever she
finds a parking spot, she's not lugging her chair and her lunch to the beach. It's very easy. It's right there. She'll sit right by the dunes and and everybody will be happy. I can stay at work and know that she's safe. In regards to the
lockers, now I understand you want to please the residents, but there's on all the streets there's a right side and a left side. Eventually get to all of the right side being residents, all of the left being non-residents. As you go
through the list, I heard earlier we paid double when we first got the locker and we are contracted in. The words were, you can have it for life as long as you pay it every year. Well, my life is not over. But it's telling in this
rule now it's saying just because I no longer have a property in Bradley Beach, my life will change completely. I mean, I look forward to I heard somebody say the Christmas presents for the badges. That's what we do. That's Bradley is our
life. Reading that email, I don't want to say let's just say it's very upsetting to everyone. So, if it means the storage, which that was the first time I heard that, >> can you leave them? They're on this side
of the dunes, and repair them as you go down the block. So, this way they're there. And I understand you have to repair them each year and take care of that. Um, can we add maybe a little to the left, to the right? like I've seen the shapes every year of where the
lockers are are changing to get to the additional 300 that we need right now. Um is one question. The other is when I've heard this summer. I've heard 2027. I've heard a couple of times when this if it passes or when it will go into
effect. Um I know my initial thought was rather not have the same spot in my heart. So that's my questions. >> So understand and and you know and uh and I'm I respect the amount of time
your family and uh your your whole family history has devoted to Bradley Beach. Um regarding u the number of lockers um roughly there there is space on you know where the existing lockers are. We could add more lockers. We've
talked about this myself and the DPW director that we at, you know, to be to be safe, we could probably add 100 lockers, maybe 120, you know, that kind of range. So, we would not hit 300, but we could add lockers. Problem is, we
can't store them. So, it it's going to keep coming back. That's I'd be the first I think I think I can speak for everyone on this. we would unanimously vote to add more lockers and and charge more money um if we could store them. So, I know that sounds overly
simplistic. That truly is the issue. So, um we do have some additional space on the beach, not enough for 300, but we could at least add 100 plus more if we had storage. And if we can find more storage, then we can add more lockers. But, as I mentioned earlier, that's been
a challenge over the past few weeks. So, some of the beaches have a little bit more space on this side of the dunes and and I understand what you're saying, but um you know, you can get pallets laying down on the pallets and then storm in that aspect that pallets are not expensive. >> Yeah. >> Aspects. Um it's just I I'm not
understanding why non-residents who have been paying for years are possibly going to get booted out of rental of the lockers or the storage. Okay. That that's the part I don't
>> we can't protect them. If we built them, we >> they're on this side of the dunes. That that dun's amazing with >> But you're suggesting we'd leave them out all all winter. >> We don't do that now. >> I know. >> Because storm far left. >> Yeah. But they're protected.
>> Can you tell me the time period that you want to put this into effect? Was it this summer, next summer? >> It would everyone who has a lucky who wants to renew it would be able to renew through this summer. for the following year. So if everyone would be good through 2026, but for
beach lockers for 27 only residents would be would be able to renounce. >> I mean your last name >> uh it's my first name is I len >> right. Oh I okay thank you. CN.
>> Thank you. >> Don Greenberg, 302 Parkplace Avenue, Bradley Beach. Uh I'm going to come back to the legal aspect, probably not as eloquently as the first speaker, but uh I believe you guys should uh vote no on this locker ordinance, which is up to
final approval today. Uh I believe the ordinance comes down for two reasons. I believe the ordinance comes down on the wrong side of the public trust doctrine contrary to what learning council says. I disagree with them. Um and the rulings of previous court cases cases on beach
access. Uh number two, it's wrong to disenfranchise longtime members of our summertime community just because they don't live here. So legally uh I believe this violates the tenant of not discriminating against non-residents in matters of public beach access and
amenities. Three points on this one. NJS 1074 passed in 201819 which is the codification of the public trust doctrine in New Jersey. Um while it does not specifically mention beach lockers as an amenity, it does not specifically
exclude them either. What it says in section 1F and I'm just going to read the relevant part is and the necessary support amenities to facilitate public access for all including and this is the important part but not limited to not
limited to public parking and restrooms. It is this not limited to portion that is important in that it opens the possibility for other amenities to be considered as well as parking and restrooms like beach floppers. Uh I also believe this violates settled law on
resident verse non-resident discrimination um to be considered as well as parking and restroom. So it violates Neptune vers Avon which is the seminal case on public access and what it says in Neptune vers Avon. We are convinced it
has to and it has to follow that while municipalities may validly charge reasonable fees for the use of their beaches they may not discriminate in any respect between their residents and not residents. Let me repeat that. in any
respect. In any respect would include beach lockers. The meaning of the phrase in any respect would seem to me to open up the inclusion of amenities such as beach lockers and the non-discrimination prohibition against non-residents. Since to use the lockers, you must use the
beach where the lockers will sit on sand paid by paid for by every single taxpayer in the country. Uh considering most beach replenishment dollars are federal. So everybody in the country paid for that sandus on Bradley Beach. Okay. So you can't discriminate against
non-residents because it's public. It's in the public trust. Um lastly on the legal front is the town decides to deposit locker payments directly into the general fund. I believe this would violate settled case law in the form of Susco versar
and which stated in a parking issue. Um, and I'll read that under the limited circumstances of this case, we agree that with the trial court that parking fees, and here's the important part, charged only for beachfront parking and nowhere else in the burrow constituted
beach fees. So, while this particular case refers to parking, it also fits the description of beach locker fees as they are charged for, to paraphrase, only on the beach and nowhere else in the burrow. Okay? You can't just change the
account you put the money in and think that changes the utes and where the money comes from. It still comes from a beach locker that sits on the beach which is held in the public trust. Um, so if indeed these beach fees for beach So indeed if these are beach fees
for the beach locker that sit on the public beach replenished with public dollars and I believe they are, you cannot discriminate between residents and non-residents for access to those lockers without the possibility in my opinion of opening up a talent build or
a lawsuit. So that's my legal ideas on the matter. Um, as far as being fair, while I believe that I am correct in the legal area, um, I'll admit that the D is probably not coming after Bra Beach on this issue. Is there a bigger fish to
fry on the beachfront access on beach access, right? Um, will one of the non-residents who lose their locker of this or if this ordinance passes sue? Who's to say? But judging by the turnout, it might happen. Uh, what I will say though is that this
ordinance is inherently unfair to those non-residents who have been members of our summertime community for years and in some cases decades and generations. In other cases, they are former residents who just can't afford to live in Bradley anymore, but still love the beach here. And to be clear, these are
community members. Whether they own property here or not, they're part of our community. These are folks that choose I got like >> It's okay. >> Yeah. These are folks that choose to make Bradley their summer vacation home and beach community. They are an
essential part of both the social and financial fabric of our town. I know this is not the intent of the council. I I mean I know all of you on the day you all have the best interest of the town at heart. But to kick the non-residents out of their lockers, some held for decades, and to disenfranchise
one set of community members to advantage another set of community members to me is just wrong. And again, I know this is not your intent. I know you're trying to look out for our residents, but I say to you that these non-resident Beach locker holders
are every bit as much of our Bradley Beach summer community as residents are. And we should not value them less. If we pass this resolution, we will probably lose those folks as members of our community because who wants to go where
they're not wanting? So, I ask you to either vote no on this ordinance, table it, and come up with a better solution, or at the very least grandfather those non-residents already holding lockers because they are indeed a part of our community. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. rather be >> um the reason I'm here is to impose the ordinance on these lines and I want to thank Mr. Greenberg who articulated exactly what I was going to say. And I
want to mention a brief story. About five or six years ago, I uh went out to the beach and set my chair up on a very hot day. It was like 90 something degrees and uh anyway I sat in my beach chair and I wound up getting up to go
inside and I uh absolutely I face planted into the sand and was uh in a sense saved by one of our uh speaker predecessors who uh gave me water, walked me inside and and uh they've
become friends ever since. Uh, so I I just want to mention, you know, they're not residents in Bradley Beach. They have a locker up between uh Evergreen and uh and Second Avenue. And uh you know, they they I know for a fact that they come with as many as uh 10
residents, uh two or three cars, and uh along with their 83-year-old mother who, you know, hardly able to she can't carry her own her own beach. And uh I I know for a fact that they go to restaurant,
they come to the b the bonfire, they they they go to restaurants, they they get their gas in Bravely Beach, uh use our uh other restaurants as well. So, you know, I hope uh that the council pays attention to uh you know, what I'm
saying, Mr. Greenberg, some of the others have said. And uh uh let's see, the other the other point that I want to make uh Mr. Greenberg has also made that point that David he was he's made that the point the
legal point that he's that he's made and I think that uh that if the courts uh unfortunately have to deal with this issue and I hope they don't u but um I think they might come down on the side that uh has been well spoken here.
Thank you very much for Thank you. Way back, Ron. You >> Thank you. Sounds obvious. >> TJ's pointing to them. So, like, who's seen this? Well, we got to finish this
first and put it down here. Rowan Parker, 27 Atlantic Avenue. Um I think that it is very unwelcoming and not the image and not the friendly approach that we in
Bradley want to give to others who are coming here. I don't speak for the business community obviously, but people who come who have paid money for
lockers, who have paid money for their badges, also frequent all of our restaurants, all of our stores, and at the same time, I certainly don't speak for the environmental commission, which I serve on, but I would like to
anecdotally tell you about people who come for the annual beach sweeps and say when we ask for the address, "Oh, I don't live here, but I love your beach. I come to your beach all the time, and that's why I come here because I want to
flea." So, please reconsider. Thank you. >> Thank you. Yes, sir. Hello, council. Uh, my name is Brendan Harrison. I live at 103 Brinley Avenue. Um, I just have like one question and then a comment. Um, so in terms of right
now in the summertime, the lockers are towards the end of the dunes at the entrances to get on the beach. Is the reason that they're not just that they're stored in the parking lot is is due to storms. Correct. So, could they could they just be moved towards the center of the dune? because I I mean
correct me if I'm wrong, but the only storm I could think of in recent times that have completely breached the dunes is Sandy. So, could they just be do you know does do you know what I mean? Sometimes when we get a storm or a big swell, the entrances get a little flooded, but could we just move the dunes I mean move the the lockers closer
towards the middle of the dune for perfection? >> Uh I know the answer is no, but I'll ask Mr. I'm pretty sure we can't leave the lockers on the beach um because of Cathler rules, the state rules. Like they say, "All right, in the summer you
can put stuff out on the beach. Other towns do different things besides lockers uh at the but you got to move it off the beach in the winter because of storms." Um you know, I appreciate the creative thinking. Don't this doesn't mean that I'm in favor of changing this
because they're not. Uh, but I think it's because the state short answer. >> No, fair enough. Keep thinking of different places to put them. >> Yeah. One other thought I had was maybe um, you know, non-residents can pay an extra fee if you guys are able to come up with some storage outside of the town or something like that to just account
for, you know, extra um, fees or whatever. But, okay. So, I'll just move into my comment. Um, so yeah, I'm uh, lived in Brin Brinley or I lived in Bradley Beach for about 20 years. More than half my life. I moved here when I was 18 years old. Been paying rent ever
since. I'm 38 now. Um, I love this town. I started, let's see, I met my wife here. I got married in this very room. Uh, started a family. So, you know, and then just to watch rent, housing prices soar, the the thought of us being able
to live the rest of our lives here is probably the thought that I I won't be able to have a beach locker in the future, you know, is like a tough pill to swallow. Uh there's a lot of people my age that have spent majority of their lives living in this town that can't afford it anymore that still come here
every summer all year round, put money into the restaurants, you know, serve fish, walk the boardwalk, bike here, participate in all community events that are going to be excluded from having beach lockers. You know, they they may been coming here for generations as well. So, I think it's a little um
unfair in that regard. Like I said though, I'm a resident, but I still think it's not right if I ever have to move out of here. I've been on the the waiting list for about 5 years myself and I haven't had a problem with it. I figured, you know, it is a privilege. Everybody's it's open to everybody. I plan on coming to Bradley whether I live
here or not for the rest of my life. So, when I get it, I get it. Um, you know, it's just having patience. So, um, I think, you know, there's been a lot of talk about grandfathering in. I don't think that's going to solve your problem because it's not going to get the waiting list moving and it's not going to address people that might be in
my situation or my generation like like I just outlined. Um yeah, and like I said, I think there's just a huge community of people here that contribute to this town that aren't residents. Maybe they once were, maybe they'll be residents again, but I just don't think
excluding others. Like I I've heard a lot of talk about um you know, wanting to give back to the residents, but I think there's plenty of other ways you can think of as a council to give back to residents without excluding an opportunity from from people that are
still part of our community, but I know they're very large. So that's all I got. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Other questions in the room, Mr. sir, or comments? Good evening. I'm Frank Rossy 310 and a half friendly happen beach. I think it's
probably expected that everyone who's going to lose a locker is going to oppose the uh the new ordinance. I I'm one of the people in Bradley Beach. I've owned a home for 18 years and I don't think a lot of people came here that are
in my situation because I've been on the waiting list in Bradley Beach for probably over five years and I've been stuck on number two for the last two years. So, I'm hearing stories about, excuse me, don't tell me over this,
non-residents waiting here, which is what I was told when I first put my name on the list, uh, that already have lockers somewhere. So, I think it's important for you to listen to the Bradley community that the
residents in town. And I'm sure I'm not the only one in this situation, but I uh I was basically excited when I saw the suggestion of changing the ordinance to benefit people. Of course, we don't want to see anybody really have a hardship,
but there's enormous amount of people that are in my position. And you know, 18 years ago when I bought the we bought a home here, it wasn't a big deal for me to to have a locker because I just cart everything over to the beach. But you know I'm a couple months older than that
and it's more of an addition for me. So I appreciate you and I urge you to vote for the propos. Thank you sir. >> First thing I would like 404 and a half Brinley Avenue. The first
thing that I would like to say is that whenever all of you consider what is good for the people of Bradley, please consider paramount what is good and fair because it is not good for anybody in this town
for our town to take collective action which is not good or not fair. That puts us in a really bad position in so many ways. And when I see this gentleman who very much would benefit
from a locker being a resident, it makes me think of maybe um creative ways to decide what might be most good and most fair. Um, I I'm not I would ask you please to vote no on the
ordinance the way is presently written and to really think very carefully and consult very carefully before you pass an ordinance like this separating us from the people in the towns around us at all.
You know, right now I I can carry my things to the beach, and I think carrying them to the beach is likely to keep me more able as I get older because I'm exercising my muscles and my feet.
So, um, and I was particularly saddened that any organization or place that I belong to would make a representation and a promise to people like the one that was in our standing
ordinance and then say, you know what, it's a new game in town in Bradley now and we're going to make sure our residents are taken care of and our able residents are going to come before any of you who may have become elderly while
you were on your waiting list and when you made your deposit and while you've been paying. And I thought, we don't know the circumstances of the people who are on that list. Could there be somebody who's been caring for a relative for the last three summers but
kept spending their $200 for the summer that they might be able to come back and go to the beach at Bradley? And I thought when I was when I was little, you know, we lived in we lived in the our my grandparents, you know, my mother were they were ocean rovers
forever. Ocean Grove was on beach. We happened to have a locker that like you could stand up in and you could, you know, and there were showers and the whole thing. Um, and I'm not say if somebody had just taken that away
retroactively. I mean, it might have been okay if it was always that way. I don't know. But for somebody to take it away retroactively, it be like being kicked off your beach. I mean, that was our beach. Do you I mean, you have an emotional attachment. And I don't really
want to see people damaged in my name. I don't want that. I don't want that to happen. And I do think that the breach of contract potential is huge. And by the way, we could have three or four lawsuits that
don't prevail. We still have to start out defending them. That's still money. So, I'm not sure that benefits the residents of Bradley Beach. So, um and and I do think there's an access issue,
particularly when you consider that some of the people that have those lockers probably can't get to the beach if they don't. So let's think about how we can make this a better community, a warmer community, a more loving community, a stronger community. Thank you very much.
>> Thank you very much. Other comments? Yes, sir. >> Greg Rey Smith, 506 Ocean Park Avenue. I just want to reiterate what this gentleman in the back said. We've been down, my wife and I have been down here 10 years between Asbury Park and
Bradley. We've we've been coming down since I can remember. She has nothing to say. Four years ago when we brought in Bradley, we didn't think anything of it. Put our name on the list. Four years later, he's number two. I don't even know what they'll write him on the list.
I just want to, you know, not getting any younger. Just want to be able to walk down the beach and enjoy the beach just like everybody else. But I I don't hear many people from Bradley speaking up. People are that are in my predicament. And I'm sure there are a lot of people that are on the list.
People had lockers for 20 years, 30 years. I don't know. Maybe you should wrote them out. Rotate them out. 500 this year, the next year, next 500, and just rotate them out. If you don't have a locker for one year, what's the big deal? But I just want to know how many
people are on that list on the waiting list. >> Does anybody know? >> Less count 333. 30. So I must be I don't know when he got on >> my front lawn on my pickup and I'm thinking but it's not
there something's got to be done. Is there any ordinance or any law to say how titles lock this can be? Our ordinance states a specific >> I saw I saw it in the in the you know but is there any state law a federal law that said there can only be so high
economy port >> do you know if there are >> I would imagine it's cal permit so I I would be I would believe that the ordinance matches whatever the bro's cap permit is I see the engineer on the council shaking his head yes but >> he's not official engineer but I would I suspect it would be afro however we
peritted for them it would have a little a little narrow >> you know instead of Three. Three. You could put four in there. I don't know. I don't I don't know. >> That's not my department. >> So, you lit up you lit up when you mentioned litigation.
>> Yeah. >> Build it. Put in my front line. >> Thank you for your comments. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Other comments or questions from the room? Yes, sir. >> Hi. uh Ted Whitby 604th Avenue at the beach. So, um yeah, no, not too many people are
speaking up in favor of this and I was really wasn't going to talk, but I'm just going to give it a little bit of a go here. Um we've only been here for about 4 years, but soon as we bought, we put in a request. I think we're number 17 or 18 on the list when we entered. Um
as of the other day, we're 13 after almost four years. Um, we have a house that doesn't have a driveway. So, if our grandkids and kids come down and we've got all this stuff and we have to drive down to the beach,
we're probably not going to have a parking space till we come back without being whatever a block away from the house. So, people from out of town can park right there on the beach, assuming there's places. you know, down at the end where you are around 4th Avenue,
Fifth Avenue spot. It looks like a Jubilee spot. So, if you don't have a locker, you you've got that little bit to walk, it's probably another 100 yards than having a locker, right, to get your stuff to the beach. Um, I'm, you know, I'm on 600 block, so it's a good walk to
get down there. So, I I don't like the idea of being unfair to people. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm on 13 after 4 years and I know it comes out of each fund. It's not public funds, but I'm paying a couple thousand dollars
every quarter for property taxes. So, I would like a solution of some kind. I'd like to try to be fair to people. I'd like to look for creative solutions, but uh I'd rather not die before I get deep.
Thank you for your comments. >> Others in the room for comment or question. >> I know. We see. >> Let me let me introduce our um soon to be council councilman elect Mitch Carp. I have no idea what Mitch is going to say, but we do ask him to sit here so he
can get a sense for what it's like to be sitting up here. >> Or now I'm over here. >> You are. >> Anyway, Mitch Karp, 303rd Avenue in Bradley. So when this first came out um you know somebody discovered that hey
do you know that in Avon and in other towns they're going to be able to do this and then it was like this light bulb went off. It's like wow we should do that too. That sounds great. I have I was on a wait list for eight years before I got a locker. I've been here for about 20 years. Um and I know
friends of mine who are still on the waiting list um after eight or nine years since uh they've moved here. And uh so it seemed like a great idea. So it's like let's if we can do something that benefits the people of Bradley Beach
um then that's what we should do. Um uh I'm hearing things that are um resonating with me um where maybe it's not just the residents of Bradley Beach that should be considered but we h I
mean we we talked about the ordinance um talks about employees of Bradley Beach about our first responders um they the value that they add to this town and the benefit that they can see from this ordinance and I see some of
that in the non residents and what they've brought to the town. And so I guess I'd feel a little more comfortable if I were sitting up there making this decision knowing that I exhausted every
possibility to find a solution. I've heard things about that certainly resonate like storage. That's really the problem. That's really what's causing this that we can't create 300 more lockers. So, we could if we could find a
storage solution. So, if I knew in my heart that we exhausted that that we were able to say we looked everywhere. I I want to say that when I first moved here, we were storing them in like the DPW lot. >> And I don't know, is there a reason that
we don't do that now? Was something changed? >> Yes. A few things. One is um we were required to use heavy equipment to to take them down the road. >> Uh that was not
traffic safe that they were overized vehicles. We weren't allowed legally to do it. >> Um and we're going to use that lot in the foreseeable future >> uh to u to move our DPW facility there.
So to come up with a temporary solution, right, >> uh it would backfire on just >> because I thought about because I heard about heavy equipment. I'm like, yeah, let's get some flatbed trailers and just put them all on there and ship them safely using that. So if that's the case, I can understand.
>> And at that time, Mitch, we didn't own that piece of property, Elissa. We we rented it from them and for the sole purpose of putting on there. Now that we own it, it's DPW yard and there's all this other stuff going on that side. So, I guess just to sum up, I guess I just
feel better in my heart knowing that we made every opportunity, made every effort because um it um it just seems like the right and fair thing to do. Um I would just ask one question of um Mr. Cannon would be um the people have
brought up the question about contracts and the deposits that they made um and some disagree some some things that are unclear. what actually is the um rights of the renters with regards to those
initial deposits that were paid because I've heard people say, "Oh, I can renew and I can renew forever." And >> I can't say I wrote through the the contracts you said, but I understand their annual rental. >> Okay. and there's there's no recourse where any of the fund like if if somebody stopped becoming you know they moved out
and they're living in California and they no longer needed a locker would they normally get that fee back that they initially paid or is that just a construction >> fee the the quick answer and I am familiar with the contract but I'm not going to render a legal opinion on it but I've been through it with a fine
tooth comb um the uh the language says more or less um yeah init It's updated every year to show new dollars. So, for example, the current contract says initial fee $600. Uh it's
it says you can renew no as long as you do it by April 1st. >> Um most of the contract is there there's nothing in there that says you get it for life, by the way. So, I mentioned that earlier, but it does but there are various restrictions. So, it's a
somewhat of a boilerplate lease agreement. Okay. Um, so it's a it's a it's an initial fee. It's not a security deposit. That's correct. Share >> or or a leaseold. >> Okay. I mean, it's it's a it's an annual right to catch if
>> if we the we don't have a decision on the ship, but but we're very open to uh establishing a policy for some portion of refunding. So, for example, someone who's had a locker for 10 or 20 years, you know, I at least my opinion on that
is that that span the useful life of the locker plus I wouldn't think there would be a refund for a person who had a locker 20 years. Somebody who rent who leased for the first time last year, we would have to have a formula that would uh compensate to some degree, I would think. >> Thank you very much.
>> Okay. Thank you. Other comments or questions in the room? Yes, ma'am. My name is Susan Young and I live at 506 North Avenue. I also did not plan on speaking tonight, but I feel I should. Uh we've been in our house 17 years and
when we first got it, my husband and I were very able to get on our bikes, put our backpack chair on our backs, put our cooler in the basket and ride there. But I'm fortunate enough now to have two grandchildren, three and six. I'm It's a
little tougher now. So, the five blocks have become longer. I am too on the wait list for a long time. Uh people don't move up very quickly at all. And I'm afraid they'll be in college before I get a locker. So, I just wanted to voice
that. Thank you. >> Thank you. Other comments or questions? Yes, ma'am. My name is Felicia Saki, Lorraine Avenue, Bradley Beach. May you go to um I don't envy any of you. You have very tough decisions to make. Um but this is
just food for thought. You had said that you could possibly build another 100 to another 120 blockers and store them where they are now in the pardon. >> No. Uh, just to be clear, >> we could fit them anymore >> on the beach during the summer, but we
would not be able to >> Okay, that was then I misunderstood because I thought if you could do that, then they could be only exclusive to the residents of Bradley Beach and that would solve probably a lot of problems for our residents here that are saying
they're on the list for so long. So, that is not feasible then at all. >> It's not an option. No, >> that's too bad. All right. Well, thank you. >> Thank you for trying to help us here. >> Uh, other comments. Yes.
>> Jen 315 and a half Ocean Park. So, I'm here about the parking, not about the lockers. And just maybe for a point of clarification, so my mom lives in the residence with me. She does have we think it's wonderful that the town offers the specialized parking um in
favor of any you know tightening up of people getting them. But my one question was about the that it always has to have the placard in the window while it's in the spot. Now my understanding is she can take that placard with her. So if I'm to drive her to the store, she has a
card that says that placard goes with her. Now how do we handle that? She I take her shopping on a Saturday. her car is then left in the spot without the placard. She goes to my brother's for a week or things like that. So, I don't know if that was considered or if
I'm mis misinterpreting it. I just didn't want it to be something that wasn't considered that that placard can go with her, but she's not always in her car, which is in the spot says if the car is on the street, it can only park in her spot. We don't have a driveway.
So, I just didn't understand that. We >> a Can I make a practical please? Just make a copy of the placard and leave it. If you take the placard with >> Okay. Then the officer can just see, right? Then then the officer can see the number and see what it is. >> That in there, but I just want to make
sure that's the solution. That's all. >> They can't tell you to park in a handicap spot without the plaque or the license plate cuz that's that's the motor vehicle code. But as a practical matter, if you just make a copy of it and just leave it on the dashboard, the officer is going to look at it and then
they'll they'll see the address there. Thank you so much. >> But I'm saying >> thank you. Yes, sir. >> I know prosecutor. >> Okay. I'm sorry. I've got to ask you to hold out for a second. >> I'm sorry because there are other people who have been waiting to speak. So,
>> I just wanted to say one thing. >> Just wait a couple more minutes. >> Chance to speak again. >> Anyone else in this room before I turn to Zoom? >> Yes, sir. in the back. >> So, I just want to give everyone a chance. >> If we break that rule, we're dead. So,
>> that's the one that's Yeah, >> that's a tough rule to break. >> Uh, I live My name is Drew Borders. I live at 133 Lake Terrace in Bradley Beach. My wife and I own a home on the corner of Cliff Beach and Lake Terrace.
The home was built by my great-grandfather and has been continuously owned by my family since 1904. In fact, Bradley Beach Historical Society believes that it may be the longest continuously familyowned residence in Bradley. My grandfather's name is proudly on the war memorial in
Riley Park. We also are 5 and a half month residents from May to October at a house that is currently not winterized. currently I say and my wife has a legal special parking permit and I think my family's been very good stewards of the
burrow of Bradley Beach over those years after even after reviewing the previous council meeting I heard a lot of hearsay in a window and some falsehoods the resentment concerning non-resident homeowners should really be against the enforcement not the policy and this is
not blaming the police department Bradley Beach has an excellent police force They control the shenanigans in the summertime that go on here. Just I won't waste your time with a funny story, but anyway, the uh uh to get back
to this is that everything that you're trying to codify with this other than taking the spaces away is already in the application. I don't even see a need for having a an ordinance about this when everything is already taken care of in the application
and the police need the public's help. If you feel it's being wronged, let them know. Give them a call. Um, I think it's just like if you had a car parked for a week in front of your house. It's your duty to help the police with that. >> So, how many total permits are there?
>> Roughly 45. >> So, you're not exactly sure? >> I'm not exactly sure. >> Okay. Um, isn't it, just to be dumb here, isn't it just a matter of counting them in a drawer? There are clerical reasons why I couldn't get this specific number.
>> I'll give you that. And how many of those do you think or do you know are resident permanent resident homeowners and non-permanent resident homeowners and renters? >> If we were to adopt this amendment, it
would probably cut that number by 15 to 20. >> And you know that because you've seen the figures on it. Well, again, there one of our employees tracks this has files and everything, but there there are circumstances that are unique to different homes that we don't know what
impact it'll have >> because I mean it kind of appears you don't really know how many there are. You don't know who has them and do you have a map that shows them where they are in the city? >> We know. Yeah, we have the address. >> Okay. All right. Good. Um, so I think
the $200 fee will definitely knock down your permits. I think that's going to have a big debt in that. And why not adjust the fine for illegally parking of these to be like parking in an ADA space? At the past meeting, parking
permits were referred to as a scam. I'd also like to get one thing straight right now. My wife's 35 year battle with multiple sclerosis is no scam. And it's no joke. When you abuse this privilege, it's not a scam. It's called
fraud. I am sure that the potential fraudulent behavior is not limited to non-resident homeowners. Non-residents pay 100% of full-time taxes here in Bradley and use the services for only 5 months or so out of the year. Non-residents contribute to the fire
department, the police department, the first aid squad, along with other town and volunteer services. So when I say non-residents, I mean non-t taxpaying residents. Bradley Beach and the council should embrace the non-residents and not try to take things away from them. I
understand. I just don't quite get it. Um, now let's talk about the parking gain for a minute, which seems to be the big hot item. Can we all agree that you could live with this program in the offseason months in Bradley? Is that something that you think that people
could live with in the town? Uh it's just a an odd question for me to try to answer because >> okay it could vary by street. I know individuals who have concerns that they're around certain >> I mean you can look you can kind of look down the streets and see there isn't really a parking problem in it all
season of Bradley Beach. >> There's one particular street where it's going to change. >> So are the when are the non-permanent taxpayers going to be here who don't live here permanently? >> Summertime. Correct. So if you take away
a parking space in the summertime and I have to park over here now, how many spaces are you gaining? Zip. You're not gaining any spaces in the summertime by doing this. You could take this whole program and scrap it. You're
not going to gain a single space from it. It's a finite number of cars and the only way you're going to gain spaces here is building a parking lot. So, I just don't understand, you know, if it just seems that uh even
this proposed amendment kind of reads it to getting it through here during the second, it's the two days before Thanksgiving. I have to drive eight hours today to be here and back. My attorney says there are a lot of holes in this and so that's another issue that
I think you're going to face. Um, you're actively targeting a large part of your population of non-resident homeowners who rely on this town service. They will enjoy their home safely and despite their malady. Enforce the rules. Keep taxpayers equal. Understand you're
gaining no extra spaces by doing this. Protect the rights of all taxpayers, which I help you pledge when you were sworn in. Do your due diligence upfront. Leave the citizens to have compassion for disabled neighbors. Don't enact ridic this ridiculous ordinance that
might be illegal. Heal the divide that is being created as good government should. Base your decision on facts and not just anecdotal hearsay or emotions like good government decision should be made. Look at the optic on this. You're taking away privileges from handicapped
people. I don't think you really want to be known as the city that does that. Thank you very much for listening to me today. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. Other comments in the room before I move to Zoom? >> Yes. Oh, no. You I'm sorry. So, you got to wait.
Keep you keep tricking me there. >> How are you? Thank you for addressing our concerns tonight. My name is Chris Wenegro. I live at 810 4th Avenue, Neptune City. Um, I lived in Bradley Beach for about three and a half years. It was uh something I've been wanting to
do for a very long time. When it was time, I rented for 3 years. When it was time to buy, I couldn't swing buying what I needed here in Bradley. So, I moved literally the next property over. I lived within Well, not within. I'm sorry. >> So, I literally There were other houses
that I looked at that were roomier, a lot more, but but it was right here. I had to just get that one street. I wanted to be in Bradley and I couldn't. And I love where I live and I still do stay in my car. I I'm in Bradley. And when I'm on the beach with my granddaughter, this is our beach. You
know, we run. This is it's it's great. I I just love being here. I'm I'm insulted right now. I really I'm not being mean. I'm not fighting. But and I know others feel this way. It's like, what? What do you mean? This is where we are. This is what we do. And now we're not going to
be able to keep our locker. You know, I open my locker. I got nine chair. Oh, four generations. I got four generations of people. I got my granddaughter, me, my father, my daughter. We come here. We, you know, it's full of toys. It's full of chairs. You know, this is this is what everybody does. This is what we
do. So proud of being here. We, you know, we go to the restaurants. We just do everything. And it's like it's almost like someone's slamming a door in your face. It's it's it's upsetting. It's really really upsetting. And you know, I Mr. Greenberg, I thought you did a great job and I'm sure we crushed each other
on Facebook with these comments and you know, I I don't want to go into the legalities of it. However, and I do say, you know, the cost of litigation is astronomical. I know you're on the table, but hourly rates are very expensive. I I feel like that could be something I I don't I'm not threatening.
I don't want to see that happen to Bradley Beach. And and it will you know what's going to happen with some of this? I don't want that to happen. I also don't like the look of this the attitude like you know it's creating an us first them when I'm on that and I'm here all the time I'm on that beach all
year all year and every time I see something I pick it up I put it in the garbage if I see a stick down it's holding up the sticks to protect the birds I put the stick up right people that don't live in Bradley Beach we we take care of Bradley Beach too we we feel ownership we wish lot those of us
that don't live in Bradley Beach wish we could own Bradley Beach and that's what we do and this It's really a shot. It really is. By the way, I've had a locker for a couple years. Um, my girlfriend lives here in Brley Beach. I go get another locker, right? So, it's it's not
I say it's not a concern, but uh, a couple things I wrote down. I'm trying not to repeat what others said. I I I creating a us versus them. It takes away ownership. You know, a lot of people complain about renters. Our renters don't own. They're not going to take care. Well, what do you think you're doing to people by saying you can't have a locker room anymore? It's kind of
creating that same situation. um the traffic and congestion on ocean. All of us that now can't get our stuff in our lockers, driving down and parking on ocean and loading our stuff and going somewhere else. Uh you know, even people that live here said, "Oh, well, I have to drive down. I'll lose my spot in
front of my house." I have the same concern. I'm right across the street and I have to risk my life every time I cross Memorial at 430. That's another concern for another time. >> Um if the issue was storage, please let let's work on it. I I don't have the answers. I thought, you know, could we
put them on the prom? Could we put them on pallets on the beach? You answered most of these. Uh, one of them is, is it possible is there storage in some of the businesses in the town that might be able to rooting and wood has a big parking lot. The nap, but that's closed. Uh, the bowling alley, although they
credited something. Um, grandfathering. Grandfathering. No one's ever going to let go of locker. That's not going to fix this. the the ones that I'm in partial ownership with people. I'll never let go of that. That's not going to solve the issue. No. No. You'd
be foolish. This created a you know like a a hot commodity. It's very valuable. That's not going to solve the problem of the weight list. Litigating discrimination. That's not going to be what's best for Bradley Beach. I don't want to see that happen. Uh storage build more. I think that's about it. It's kind of give other people more
time. Most important thing, I hope that it's my granddaughter that someday continues to come here and she can claim it too. Please don't just, you know, don't don't shut us out of that, please. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> In the back. >> Hello.
North Avenue. Um, I would like to talk about um the special parking. Um unfortunately um you know you hear stories of people who really need the the special parking but through the years um we have had um parking that has
been in in an essence has been scammed by people who really do not need them and it should be um something as a courtesy for people who are are very ill that need them. I have no problems with that whatsoever. But the issue that is coming along with this and the ordinance
as I was reading it, we need better um cautionary um metrics in place. Um I would like to see um that when someone files an application, when uh police go to check out the house and everything that there are photos taken that it goes
into the file, chief of police then will review it. And then also I want the pooreyed principal. I do believe that mayor or another designated person whether it's the VA should be looking this at this as well. Unfortunately in the past we have had too many people and
and every single resident knows of people who should not be having these special parking spots. It's just the reality of where we are and I think we need the fourey principles and have these precautionary measures because that's in everybody's best interest. Um
secondly, um I also think that there should be a a third-party audit of the parking spots every year. That is for the protection of everybody for the police, the residents, the town. Um and then again, that puts in precautionary measures just like a business does. It
doesn't mean anybody's doing anything, but you are monitoring what these um parking spots are there for and why they're used. Um, we have to be very careful and and again because there has been so many abuses and we and again I
see it on my street. Um, and also there needs to be significant fines for people who take the liberty of painting their own curbs and also we need code enforcement um and the police to monitor this daily. Um, it can't be reactive. It
can't be residents calling out somebody. That is not our responsibility and that pits neighbors against one another. So, I would definitely like to see that. Um, also, if somebody is filing an application for um a special uh parking
spot, neighbors need to be notified because what people don't realize in some of these highly highly dense streets. It affects everybody. It It affects um it's not true that we would not gain parking spots on streets that are in the north end. You would gain
parking spots right off the bat. Um but again, it should be very very um these um spots, special spots should only be given out in very critical situations, not someone temporarily or anything of that nature. Um how many people we know
that have driveways and got spots and painting. So it's just been an abuse and and it's been mismanaged. I know we're moving forward. We're making strides and I appreciate that. And I'd like to end with is that this is just the beginning. We need a major major parking policy.
It's only going to get worse with all the building that's going on. People come in, three, four cars, they don't have parking. It's it's just a domino effect everywhere. And again, it leads to a lot of confrontation with neighbors. I know I've had it with mine,
just asking somebody to move their car out because I can't see out of my driveway. Now, we're seeing so many commercial vehicles parked all over the place. had a dump truck uh the other night parked down the street. They're not supposed to be on the street. So again, I don't know the answers, but I
would like to see in 2026, I'd like to see a major parking committee and really address these issues. And I believe this is also addressed in the master plan as well that we should be continuously looking at this. So um I just think we need to put precautionary measures in this and really have a forey principle
and look at this and scrutinize this um at a very very high level. Thank you. >> Thank you. Other questions outside of the showing? >> Okay, I'm gonna turn to Zoom and I cannot read names, but
>> can someone see that? >> It's Christine. >> Christine Cruz. >> Christine, if you're up there and can >> speak. >> Hi. Hi, everyone. Um, it is so nice to
hear some stories being shared and I think that mine is an an important one as well. My family has owned several properties. Can you hear me? >> Address. >> An address. >> Oh, my my I'm so sorry. Christine Cruz
and we have a home in Neptune City. But my family has owned several properties in Bradley Beach from the 1950s until my grandmother's passing in 2000. We lived in Bradley Beach when it was a
bad area when gangs were in Bradley Beach when the riots were in Asbury Park. I have been renting a beach locker on Park Place for over 18 years and I ask
you to reconsider this ordinance to modify the rental procedure. Bradley Beach describes itself as a caring and inclusive environment. Currently, beach lockers are assigned on
an equitable first come first serve basis. In contrast, the proposed amendment leans towards exclusivity favoring 12 month residents. to uphold
inclusivity valued by Bradley Beach. I ask each of you to vote down this amendment until an equitable compromise between long-term non-residential leases and
residents can be reached. I am listening to this conversation. I am anxiously awaiting to speak and I hear residents, 12 month residents of Bradley supporting
that this should be voted down. Your own residents are speaking against this amendment. So please, on behalf of my family, my family's history, my desire to save
money, but keep on getting priced out of the home that we were forced to leave because a gang member pulled a knife on my father many years ago. consider
that we deserve the opportunity to be a part of this community and not all of the locker renters have this long of a history with this town. Not everyone can say that their
parents got engaged in the gazebo on the beach. So, if their leases were terminated, what are the chances that they are going to return to Bradley without their beach
locker? They will probably be attracted to a different beach. They do not have the attachment that I do. And you will lose revenue. You will lose support. And quite frankly, my heart is broken.
I've lived and breathed Bradley Beach. My son is named after it. This is my home even though I don't live there. So, I ask you to please take this into consideration. Thank you so much for allowing me the
opportunity to speak. >> Thank you. I know. Do you have another hand? >> Mr. Mahoney. Christ. >> Oh, Kristen Mahoney. Hi, Kristen Mahoney, 200 Lorraine Avenue, Bradley Beach. Um, I want to
thank the council for taking this on. I know it's not easy. Uh, I go back to what the gentleman said, um, about parking in Bradley Beach, which is something that we're also discussing in another ordinance. Parking has become incredibly difficult in Bradley Beach. I
remember when I moved here 18 years ago, you could get a parking pass. You could park for free for the beach and I think go half go half price on Wednesdays. Um, now that's completely different here. Parking is something that's so terrible
in Bradley Beach at this point and so many people don't have driveways and it really resonates for me for people to say, "I live in Bradley Beach and in order to go to the beach, I have to drive down to get all my stuff down there and then when I come back, I don't
have a parking spot anymore. That's how crowded our town has become. I think that there needs to be some quarter given to the residents of Bradley Beach so that they can get down to the beach and get their stuff without worrying
about parking on top of everything else. Um, you know, we can't charge more for other people to have lockers. I believe that would be discriminatory to say non-residents have to pay more for a locker. But I do think that we should give consideration to the
residents of Bradley Beach. That doesn't mean that we value value anybody any less. I just think that we have an anomalous problem. People who come to the beach are going to drive anyway. They need to bring their stuff down. But people who can walk to the beach um at some point can no longer walk if they
have to lug everything down. So, um, my other concern is if we say that the lockers, um, are on public sand, what do we say about the volleyball court and the surf camp and things like that? Are people going to start saying, "Well, now we can't have the surf camp, we can't have the volleyball courts. Someone can
go sit in the middle of them. We can't rent them out." So, I I just think common sense needs to prevail. And that's my comment. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. Are there other folks on Zoom? Uh Steve Petraelli is next.
>> Steve Petraelli. >> Hello. >> He's right next to me. >> This This is Steve Petraelli and I am a full-time taxpayer and a part-time resident at 614th Avenue. And I've been on the waiting list for four years. I
can tell you that it took several years to get to the point where we could even find a property. In the process of being able to purchase a property, I can't tell you how many open houses and how many showings we went to where it was openly advertised that, oh, if you buy
this property, it comes with a beach locker. We'll uh we'll maintain it for you. So, I think there's a percentage of that that's going on that needs to be cleaned up. The other thing is I think you have a very basic uh mathematical imbalance of supply and demand here and
uh this fairness doctrine and what's fair and unfair. Uh it really manifests itself as the two classes. You've created two classes that can't be resolved of a normal course of attrition because the turnover uh just isn't
there. I can tell you as sitting at number 15, I concur with my neighbor at 604 that we will both find ourselves with obituary that we won't uh ever ever have uh realized a beach locker in our lifetime as I will be 74 years old in
the beach season of 2026. So, I'd like to think of myself as a technical person uh with an analytical mind. And in this case, I like to think outside of the box or specifically outside of the locker. You have a fundamental problem here. 90%
of the volume of what you have to contend with with storing is air. You've got an empty box with air in it. So, the volume is occupied basically. It's useless space. So the basic design of these lockers uh is incompatible with
your storage problem. If these designs were collapsible, foldable, internally hinged or pinned like 20 foot and 40 foot shipping containers I've personally seen in the docks in in the ports of uh Los Angeles and also in Hong Kong and
Yanten, China, then you could create a stack of foldable collapsible lockers. So, I think one possible solution is to get rid of all the lockers and start with a new design that you could
outsource and if you want, if it doesn't exist, I'll design one for you and file the patent and assign the rights to Bradley Beach. You have a design problem. You are trying to find a way to store something that's incompatible with
the amount of space available to the burrow. So, that's my uh comment. And second comment is if the town could find a standard storage locker that could be assembled
on the beach that could be approved that people could by themselves assemble. You could rent the space of sand and people could assemble their own township approved locker on that space. And so when all of the township lockers are uh
installed, you could come and people could put their own up and for $250 or $300, these products exist the same approximate volume as what you're offering now. But I think all the lockers should be uh raised and they
should be uh redesigned to a storage friendly uh mode so that they're collapsible and they can be stacked and then that solves your problem. So thanks a lot for listening to my rant and uh look forward
to uh reading my obituary with no locker. >> Thank you. Thank you for those comments, Steve. Uh, other >> Bob Bob Patton. >> Bob Patton, you're up. >> Hi, Bob Patton, 207 Evergreen Avenue.
Um, I uh give the council credit for taking on this hot issue. Obviously, a lot of sensitivity towards it. Um, I have friends on both sides of the ledger here. Um, I don't have a locker, never have, but I do have a grandchild now. So, the thought has crossed my mind a
couple times. But I do think that somewhere you have to draw the line. Um the town is growing, the town is moving forward. Um you can't confuse it with prices and other things that are going on with real estate that's happening all over the place. Um I don't want to see
500 lockers on our beach. Um I don't want to see lockers looking like storage containers. I want to see what we have. Um, I would like to see it distributed amongst the full-time residents or the residents who own properties here. I do
think that makes sense. I feel bad for people like Christine who said they've been here for a long long time, but somewhere you have to decide what is the deciding factor of how you going to make this decision. Um, as there's a finite number of lockers and there's lots of
demand. Um, the the list is long. Um, but I think I should go to the residents of Bradley Beach first and I just wanted to make that comment and and thank the council for taking this on. Thank you. >> Hey Bob. >> Yeah. >> Is that your address?
>> I'm sorry. >> Address 207. >> I didn't hear that. >> Never mind. >> 207 Evergreen Avenue. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Are there other hands raised on set?
That's it. >> That's it. >> Okay. I'm I'm not gonna ask every one of you to give it. Yeah. Make a second comment, but I am gonna ask this gentleman to make his final comment. Just >> Mr. Petrael, he stole my thunder. I was
going to suggest collapsible and stackable. >> Three or four of them >> put together. Okay. Yeah. Okay, stop. >> I actually think that it's worth looking into. We do have CA caffer requirements on size and maybe somebody is going to
design a brand new collapsible locker and current locker cost $600. If we destroy 550 lockers to then purchase new collapsible lockers. >> I suggest a pilot program this one year. >> It will be considered beyond this
meeting but u you know but again no no promises. Yes. Thank you. >> Um, Linda got me 312 Brinley Avenue. I am going to die with my wife. >> I have one and I appreciate the lockers
wholeheartedly. It saved me a lot of time and effort dragging stuff back and forth to the beach. But my problem exists because I can never get my husband there. I'd have to actually drive a car into the parking uh the handicap parking
with my husband, go home, run back because if I don't, I can't get him to the beach. So, I end up going to another beach that's in town that has a handicap parking in front of it. So, now I have to go back to that locker, fill my car up with all my chairs to go to the other
beach that I can park by the handicap so my husband can get to the beach. It's kind of confusing, but anyway, I think the residents in town should have first dibs on the robbers. It's like where you vote. You can't vote in two towns. I know it's not the same
similar uh situation, but you know, the people that live on the other side, they're still going to come here. They're going to drive their cars here. They probably drive their cars here now and park in our parking spaces, which we don't have during summer, especially in the smaller
houses that have no driveways. So, that's that with the lockers. I think Bradley Beach should have lockers first for the residents. So, as far as handicap parking goes, I don't have my paper with me. There's one item on the handicap parking that says no driveways.
You need at least an 11 foot wide driveway to safely transfer a handicapped person in a wheelchair to the car. So therefore, the driveway and the cutout isn't appropriate for them.
Today I drove around and I saw people parked in handicapped spaces with no placards on the windshield or on their license plate. I also saw people parking in yellow spots that neighbors on that
block had told me they do all the time and they call the police and nothing's done about it. So I don't understand that and that's all I have to say. These have issues and I think we should give it to people because frankly they have an issue and they should be addressed
and I think the police are able to evaluate them appropriately. So what is this form they talk about in that ordinance? It it's been published. >> I I couldn't find it. >> Okay. Was it was the position attestation form? >> It's not
>> included. Do you recall? >> No, the ordinance was posted with the rest of the not there. So, what exact exactly is that? >> It's a um it's a form HIPPA approved, uh confidentiality approved, >> uh you know, because we went through some gymnastics, uh including having the
burough attorney review it, but it's basically a physician at testation form. One of the challenges we face, you know, uh I I I know a gentleman a few folks have used in different terms uh the the word scammed and I I personally do take offense at that. I don't think anyone
Well, there may be some people that are more limited than others and some severely limited. >> No, I'm No, no. So what happens is today the ordinance requires a a note from your physician and the notes from physicians
you'd be amazed at how wide ranging they are and sometimes how off target they are. What we've done is instead of requiring a note from physician, we are now creating a standard physician attestation form that basically states
this patient of mine has limited mobility uh experiences great discomfort if they walk more than 50 ft. It's more of a definitive statement of the person's lack of mobility. >> Is this legal? I don't know anything about that. I've never >> So, this is a privilege. >> It's a privilege. Well, that is what
your >> we standardized what the physician has to certify. >> So, we were previously required what was basically a doctor's bill is what it said. >> And so, like the mayor said, we're not going to disclose. We have the records of them. We're not disclosing them medical for privacy reasons, but some of
them are patently ridiculous. And so, now is there a standard form that that specifically attest to the mobility issues that would necessitate the special parking permit. >> Okay. I just was clarity on that. I didn't. >> Yeah. I mean just let Yeah. I mean just just like I can understand it for
immunization form if you go to school you know anything else. We have the ability to tell your doctor what they need to certify for you to >> have been saying that you can go to any doctor. You cannot go to any doctor. >> I don't think to get a form filled out. You can't go to a podiatrist and say that you have pulmonary problems. I mean that makes no sense at all. So somebody
did have said here that you know oh I could just go in the back in the locker room and I can get a doctor to sign the form. I don't think that really happens a lot. It may for certain people, but I think that's a good idea, but it's hard to get your doctor to even take care of
you as opposed to the form. Also, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yes. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. >> By the way, we're not going to cycle through apologize. >> She I did let that gentleman speak >> told you to break the rule.
>> Very brief, please. I would just recommend to this council to review Susco v. Belmar which was quoted by Mr. Greenbird um and really have your council review that because Belmar had to pay back council's fees for the
litigation and I really would not like to see that occur here um for the taxpayers of Brady Beach. That's all. Thank you. >> I'll make one quick. >> It's important ladies and gentlemen. It's important Frank say one last
willing >> to pay um not >> I don't know if it's feasible or not with these collapsible sheds but that's a possibility it's something to think about this year before you move on anything in my opinion and I'd be willing to pay more as a non-resident um
for to help pay for the destruction of the ones that are present and the and the building of the new ones whether it be $150 more not every year, but maybe $200 more or maybe $200 even more for two years to help pay for it. You said
something about expense. I'm certain other people really cherish them. You know, we've been coming here, like I said, I have a lot of family members, big family members that spent a lot of money here and we really like it here than 60 years. And um but you try and keep it that way and I don't know if all
the people are going to come back. I'm I mean I will. I know I I really like it here a lot. Um, I live in Ocean Grove. My parents started renting in 1969 and we eventually bought it. But, uh, we were because of I guess religious reasons, Ocean Grove didn't have a
Sunday beach, but I like Rally Beach. Somebody said Kenth Avenue. There was a warden that lived across the street that was friends with my firefighter and uncle said Kenth Avenue is the best beach and this is the best beach >> and I want to continue to be that way. >> So, which will be that way. Thank you. >> Thank you. Byebye.
Okay, that is I'm going to close public comment um and now move on to >> somebody who has not >> Oh, I did not see you. I'm sorry. >> You have to come up to the microphones. >> Yeah, people on Zoom here. >> I don't know. Thank you. Thank you.
>> This is 411 Newark Avenue. >> Thank you. >> Um just in reference to about the placard information. Um I've have I have one for my location and for the three years that I've had one I've had to provide a placard to the town besides a note and the placards comes from the
state. So that's just can't be a scam if the state is awarding me or awarding a disability person. >> No one up here is calling. >> So I'm just saying that you know and it's not they're not just given away to anybody, >> right? >> Okay. They're given an approved the state takes it. I have a state approved driver's license that says I'm
handicapped. My husband has half a foot. He's a little bigger than a handicap flat also. So all this stuff about scamming and the legality of the parking spots. 45 parking spots in this whole town. I know it's not that big of a town that 45 parking spots if they're proven
to be legit. And you don't want to bring in the American Disabilities Act to this that for discrimination or handicapped people. >> I just think it's wrong to, you know, go after the white box spots. I mean, if they're not legit, then fine. and they're not in the jet. And I have to
tell you, we're out a lot with my car. I come home constantly and I find somebody in my spot. Normally, I just say whatever. I wish they would put a note and say, "Here, I'm here. Call me. I'll move my car." They don't. Only once in a couple of years that I did call the police cuz the car was there for three days. And even the police officer said
to me, "Wow, you waited three days." >> I said, "Yeah, I'm going to, you know, when I had to commit to somebody and you know, but it was annoying. I finally had the pre-day. I said enough's enough that I had to walk, you know, really far to get to my car. And um and at that time I parked on Lake Terrace by the dog park
and I left my car there for two days because I couldn't get back and forth and one of the neighbors over there called and said there's park here that hasn't moved in two days. So now I got called for the police stations and they went tow my car because I couldn't park where I was supposed to park. The
parking is an issue, but the sake of 45 spots if they're legit with state awarded identification. I don't see what the problem should be here for that. >> We're not changing that criteria. For example, >> I thought that's what
>> we updated it to the new we updated to the new >> the situation you described. You're not going to have >> the only thing I will said the stickers in the back window. My window's tinted so you can't see my sticker. And I didn't know until recently that I had to have the placard hanging in the car.
It's at least in my visor. But as of today, my placard is there. >> That's why we've added the placard to be displayed because tinted glass. The police can't see the >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Okay. I'm going to close public comment
and move to um the approval of minutes. I'll make a motion that we approve November 6, 2025 council business meeting minutes. >> Second, Mr. Noble. Yes. Mr. Green, >> yes. >> Mr. Nikki, >> yes. >> Mr. Weber, >> yes. >> Mayor Kubosi, >> yes.
>> Okay, moving to ordinances. Item seven on the agenda. We have one introduction, bond ordinance 2025-39. There will be no public comment on this, but council, any comments or questions? >> We'll cover it. You answered all my
questions. Thank you very much. And you've answered all my questions, but if you could just explain publicly Yeah. Yeah. At at a fairly high level, um, a number of months ago, in anticipation of doing a construction
project where we would renovate the sewer pump station on Ocean Avenue, we passed a bond ordinance uh, for $500,000, which we were told would be more than adequate to cover the costs. Then we went out for bids and the lowest bid was
632,000. The highest bid was like 800,000. And you'll see a little later on today's agenda, we will be um uh rejecting these bids because we don't have the bond authorization to spend that much money.
This introduction is amending that earlier bond ordinance uh bringing in that amount from 500,000 to 900,000. We don't expect to spend 900,000. Very likely it'll be in that 600 700 range. We just don't want to be caught short
again. and you're allowed to, you know, legally we can authorize more of a spend and then not spend it. So, we're being conservative with our new $900,000 estimate. >> That's a question, Mr. Mayor. >> Something about filling this the voids, the spaces beneath this building. I
mean, there's a building there now. Why do those voids need to be filled? Sounds like just a lot of concrete. Like, why does that happen? >> John, we we have all these engineers, including one on the council. I know that's my I'm letting the folks know that. So there I want to place to interject. So So there are these large vaults that had
all the old sewer equipment down in there, pumps and grinders and and whatnot. And there's ground water filling up in those in those vaults. When ground water comes and goes, water comes in and out. The slab of that building is being supported by a steel beam. The building's almost 100 years
old. And what we don't want to do is just build new restrooms up there and not and then have a situation where five years from now, seven years from now, 10 years from now, we have a problem with the structural integrity just because of the age and water infiltration rusting
to that beam. And we want to make sure if we're going to invest anything in here that it's going to be set for the next foreseeable future without having to come back with some other issue popping up. We go do it cheap and say just leave it, let the water flow up there. But this is for public health and
safety. >> Right. >> Thanks. >> Right. If no other questions, I'll make a motion that we adopt the sorry that we approve the introduction of bond ordinance 2025-39. >> Second. Mr. Noble. >> Yes. >> M. Greenblat.
>> Yes. >> Mr. Nikki. >> Yes. >> Mr. Weber. >> Yes. >> Mayor Guboszi. >> Yes. Okay. Now, we're going to go to public hearing on the on two ordinance adoptions which we've chatted about a bit already. Uh, nonetheless, the first
uh adoption that we want to consider is for ordinance 2025-37, which is the ordinance amending uh the chapter 9 on traffic in the burough's revised general ordinances. And this specifically pertains to special parking permits or or otherwise known as
handicap parking. um going to uh have any council comments first before I go into the vote. Any council comments or questions? >> Um I had asked a bunch of questions or at least suggested a couple of edits. Um and I had um put it forth also to our
attorney, Mr. Cannon. Um and I just want to ask if there's still uh an interest in one of my edits uh which I can articulate and share. Um just to sort of clarify uh uh that proof is required for
the caregiver um that the caregiver is a full-time resident in that location. Is that something that would benefit adding to the uh this current ordinance? There's a specific location. >> Yeah. And to be clear, um for the public
as well as for the council, where is it? Uh, >> it's um 9-3-9- A2, item number six, and it reads, "A caregiver may be approved for use of the special permit space if they reside at the applicant's primary residence in
Bradley Beach with a disabled individual. My suggestion potentially is to add proof of residency tenency required for caregiver permit." So I don't know if it's articulated elsewhere that uh proof needs to be um
uh shown in order to um satisfy. >> So uh without opining one way or the other on this just to make sure everybody understands it there is an upfront statement I guess uh a sub a1 the applicant's dwelling must be their primary residence. So with that comes an
expectation they would provide proof. >> Well, you could handle it with the I mean you handle administratively with something on the application which is what it presumes as a gentleman I think one of the speakers actually mentioned. Um but I mean including it in there is you can put it in there. >> It's yeah it's just add clarification I guess.
>> Yeah it's just clarifying. So Shauna, your suggested uh addition to let me just make sure I get the citation 9-3.9 >> right >> uh >> 9-3-9 a um
>> A6 >> A6 >> what would you add to a caregiver may be approved >> right I would say I would suggest proof of residency slashteny required for caregiver permit if a permit's going to be issued to an individual other then
the handicapped individual um we indicate that that individual should be living at that residence full-time >> which we do say right I just want to make sure I'm understand >> she's just talking about the proof I'm wondering if a caregiver came like would it be hard for them to prove like none
of the the utilities aren't going to be in their name nothing's going to be in their name how would they >> it says if they reside at the so they need they would need to prove to our police department correct captain I if you have situations like this. Now,
our current ordinance says the caregiver uh may be approved if they reside at the applicant's primary residence. So, so Miss Greenblood is saying we should get proof of that of them residing there. >> Yeah, I'm not sure exactly what the
standard is now. chief has been handling this for even since we patrol dealt with the traffic stuff. >> But um yeah, that's not out of the realm of possibility for us to to verify that. So I understand you would if you're if you don't have utility bill in your name. There's got to be some sort of you
know documents or proof that we are able to find or code able to finance. Well, that caregiver could be living there full-time, but their driver's license could still be a different residence, but as their job is to stay there, but their h, you know, so their driver's license still says, you know, Elizabeth,
New Jersey, for example, and and but yet they're living there as a caregiver. How do they demonstrate? >> I I agree with, >> you know, letting the caregiver also utilize the spot. I'm just thinking it might be hard for them to prove they
live there. I mean letting them use it if they would worry that putting it in the ordinance makes it it would be hard to prove >> but I don't know I don't that doesn't solve their problem figuring out >> I mean so let me >> the smalls >> I mean the all of these things um all
these statements that we say you know you have a driveway this or if you possess a valid commission issued placard all these things have to be proof so I don't think we need to enter the word proof they all have to be proof >> but it raises a good question. Does that
caregiver need to be a a primary? A residence is primary. And I think what I'm hearing is probably not. Probably not. >> So, a caregiver who's not living there can potentially be issued um the permit for parking. >> No. So, they have to live there. They
have to reside, >> right? So, so they have to reside there. But how do you how do you determine that? >> What if they're not a family member? What if it's like 24-hour nursing or they might Yeah. It might be primary res contract that provides you >> there must be some some sort of contract
>> living care agreement a nanny agreement where >> but that's not a permanent residency primary residency that's the issue >> I just think we believe it the way it doesn't say they have to be in a per it doesn't say the caregiver has to have >> right now it states okay but if we were
to change that to primary residence their driver's license may not say that address >> right >> so therefore we shouldn't say that So we we won't really know. We we could be issuing a permit to a caregiver who
is not residing there and and we indicate in the ordinance that the caregiver should be residing in that location and whether it's a temporary or permanent >> I think to your point they have to prove they reside there. Right. Well, if we
have that in the ordinance, I I just >> Well, it says that they reside, which in and of itself requires proof, but you're saying states that they prove they reside. >> Is it necessary? I I'm just suggesting is it necessary for us to take that one step further to to >> Does anyone have a concern about adding
wording that would say special permit space if they prove they reside at like >> I just like the one that put together prove residency be required just functionally what every section above
that and everything else is required. >> Yeah. >> Everything else is primary >> and it's not defining what the proof is. This could not be this might not be their primary residence. That's the the concern. >> Well, again, I'm just saying it might be hard for them to prove it if the police
are going to accept some some alternative. I mean, I don't know. Yeah. A contract with the the home health company or whoever. Like, that sounds good. I just don't want anybody to be bothered. They don't have a garage
license or something that says that. Again, I think we're trying to get at do they really live there and if they can prove that they reside there is that adequate. We're not saying primary residence. >> Fine, right? >> But if we say if if they provide
>> well I I had put in proof of residency tenency required for caregiver permit. So it it could be any sort of >> I'll note that the the evidence to be a a primary resident above is significantly more specific. >> Yeah.
>> I think we even list driver's license lease in the in the language above that. So that's why China's language didn't offend me because it just said proof of residence. That could be an interview with the police to explain what's going on here in like when they do their administrative tasks and processing it.
So, you know, I think it's six on one and half dozen on the other to be to be honest with you. But making it clear that people have to bring some sort of proof that they're the caregiver resident, >> even if it's the disable, you know, the person they're caring for to testify on their behalf is fine.
>> And and I'm just playing devil's advocate, but >> Well, I also live in a world where you don't get anything unless you prove it. So, I don't have much sympathy for the lack of proof. >> Well, that's the point that I've made. Everything's got to be proven. Every one of these. So to add the word prove and
this one only seems redundant to me. But everything else says primary residence. So what if the caregiver is that's not their primary residence. They live in wall but they but they spent 24 hours you know at this residence
>> as I recall. It's not obviously right now but I believe I don't believe it says primary residence. It just thinks it says reside there. >> And then Shaun's language is was proof of residency shall be required. >> Yep. Okay. >> Right. So if that could be temporary
resident, you know, I at some level someone has to make the decision whether the person gets the permit or not. >> And we and we trust the police to basically investigate it. And the nature of any system like this, especially our good naturatured police department or
any official that gives out a permit like this is not to give people a hard time, right? So, in that process of not giving people a hard time, there are at least a few, if not several of these permits that are that shouldn't be
marked on the street right now. I think our investigation has determined that. May maybe more. We don't really know the number, but we know that there's a number of them out there that are not valid at this moment. Um, and so I think we have to rely on the police, giving the police stricter parameters to issue
them and giving them the justification to tell people, hey, you know, the rules have changed and I can't give this to you. Um, you know, and I think you have to let that play out because someone has to make the decision. This is providing with the people who make the decision with stricter guidelines because they haven't been as strict, particularly on
the doctor's notes as we mentioned. Um, but overall I don't expect that this is going to drastically change the circumstances for these parking permits in town. Most of the people I think the majority the vast majority of people that already have them they are justified and they're just going to stay where they are. Um, but you know that
that's the overall I think in a nutshell that's where we're at. But at some level you have to ultimately leave it to the police to determine whether this is legit or not. And you've given them the tools now to to tighten it up. So, Ms. Greenblat and I were just discussing if
we if we cross out the word reside and we insert space if they prove residency is it two words instead of one, but >> that sounds that sounds fine to me. What's the like you loosened it up, >> you know, it sounds very non-substantive
and acceptable to me >> because the police will still decide, Greg. >> All right. Uh that's it. That was it. So no other comments or questions. >> Well, I I just want to say I mean there's a lot of discussion on this tonight. Um I believe you know some people that we are there is abuse of
this uh parking special parking permit out there. I think we're just tightening it up. I think anybody that legitimately needs the space is going to continue to get the space. Um so you know I think we're headed in the right direction on this. So I'm happy we're doing it >> right. except there's a change and a
significant change which is that it will no longer be um applicable for people who are not where this is not the primary residence that will impact some people. I >> I'd also point out objectively someone who doesn't live here and really had no idea about this issue until you asked me to look at the ordinance and I I've seen
the the data you know it doesn't pass the smell test that there's a significant concentration of that in the town. Does that mean that there's just a lot of disabled people happen to buy houses in this area or did they talk to their neighbors about how easy it might be to get pulled out? So that from just
10,000 foot view someone doesn't figure really have no idea about any of this. I looked at it and the way they're currently laid out doesn't necessarily pass the smell test. And I think this will solve that problem while maintaining the privilege and the and the ability of people who actually are disabled in the town to continue to just
carry on, you know, from from sitting over here. For beach lockers, you're on your own. >> Yeah. Uh, I mean, just to recap, uh, you know, we're establishing primary residence. So, someone today is able to
get their curb painted all year long, but they may only be spending 3 months here, but no one else can park there because it's a privatized parking space that the burrow grants that individual uh for for 12 months when they may only
be here, say, three for the summer. Um we uh another one I mentioned earlier is that we we're adding this physicians attestation statement. It's it still requesting physician approval. We're just giving more specific wording so we
get more consistent submissions from physicians. Um we didn't mention this but we we want to be clear that in this amendment uh this will be for municipal roadways only. So we will not be authorizing these on county or state roads because we are not going to make
separate application for that. Um a okay a caregiver we just discussed and and a number of people have highlighted that we're raising the uh the annual application fee from $50 to $200.
Um $50 has been in this ordinance largely forever and there are ongoing costs not only the police surveillance um for a new application. It's the signage that we we put in and the painting of the curbs and then every so many years we repaint the curbs and
we're always you know processing all the um related paperwork for the physician at testation and so forth. Um the uh the best estimate we could come up with for the time spent on a on a per space basis was the $200 fee.
So um so where are we did uh >> we're about to open it up to >> Yeah. So no other no other council comments. Okay. >> With that said, I'd like to open this up to uh public comment. And again uh some
of you may have spoken already. You're welcome to speak again. >> Uh, yes sir. >> Second Paul. >> Get ready. Paul, we can comment. >> Mr. Noble. >> Yes. >> Mr. Green. Yes. >> Mr. Niki. >> Yes. >> Mr. F. >> Yes. >> Mayor Kubatzi. >> Yes.
>> Yes sir. >> Shamp. >> Wow. You guys are really making things complicated for yourself. >> Yes. >> I think it's really unfortunate. Um, your whole discussion about caregivers. Why in God's name aren't these permits
just for the address? Once you prove that there's somebody in that permanent resident in that address. >> Exactly. >> Then basically you get a placard with that address on us and it can go in that person's car their spouse's car, their caregivers's
car. >> We can't place it. >> We we tie one car per address. That's the answer. >> Well then because they have a decal in flat. Okay. >> I'm just telling you that's that's
>> legally you can't do the pockets in the address. >> No, we do. No. >> So, we do, but Terry, correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of how we police all of these spaces is we have on file one address, one placard, one
evidence of a person's disability, and one car assigned. So, we don't hand out five decals to five family members, all of whom may take turns sheltering handicapped individual around. That's my understanding. >> Yes, correct.
>> Okay. And it can only be one, but you're going to allow a caregiver to also have a placard for that address. Is that right? >> It's again, this is the standard that already exists. We're not changing this. It's one decal per address. So the
caregiver would have the decal in that case. >> Okay. Correct. Terry, I was saying >> I would imagine that in that situation this person needs a caregiver, that person probably doesn't drive or have a car. So the caregiver is the person who
most likely is responsible for transporting them around. So that's why you have that one placard for one address for the one person who actually drives the disabled >> and and the car is registered
to that. >> Okay, wait your turn, please. >> My second comment is about the permanent resident requirement. Um why can't you have somebody who owns a house and is there for 5 months a year um when
they're not there just have them have a a clause where they have to report that they're not going to be there for extended period and bag bag the sign so that it's no longer restricted parking. I mean what that was considered. Uh it's
there's a lot of expense to first of all there's a lot of inconsistency about that person's ability to report timely. Uh and we would have no way of knowing if they were just driving around for the day as police were doing the the investigation if you will. And um uh you
know the uh the individual Oh, and then there's the cost of painting over we here for three months or five months. Then they leave and then we paint it gray and they come back and we paint it yellow. Then they leave and we paint it gray. And that's if they report it. I'm not saying you're incorrect, Paul. I'm
just saying we've discussed it and I discussed it at length with Chief Arnold who could be with us tonight. But um you know this is where we ended up. >> Good luck with it. Yeah. Uh that's here
ocean condos. Um, so I have a scenario because we know that I think crazy things and you know there I am in my home with my
elevator and I'm sick and my health is failing and I no longer have a car and I no longer have a driver license. My passport is good for 10 years. I just got a new one and I have a care and so I don't have a placard to give cuz I no longer have a
car but I require 24/7 caretaking. Now that's not one person taking care of me. I've got day shifts. I got weekend shifts.
Whatever you're trying to do, I don't think solves any of that. And I respect and appreciate that you're trying to tweak something and make it more fair,
but I don't think you really understand what caretaker is. And you've now given me some other reason than the four million reasons I have about and not sleeping at night. I I I don't have a solution and I usually
try to come here and offer one. So maybe it's some sort of portable decal that you know when the shift changes it's given to the next person coming in. But we all know those are going to fall apart, get lost in all of those
scenarios. And again, I respect you cannot prepare for every situation. But I don't think what you're doing solves anything. I think it just makes things worse. And I know you want to argue with me. >> No, I want to give you an answer. No, no, no. I'll answer.
>> We're not good to then. >> Okay. >> What do you want? Okay. We're good. >> I I was just gonna Okay. I was I didn't want to cut you off. I was going to try to help answer. >> I'll listen. >> So, number one, what your concern that
you're raising is not anything we're changing. This has existed to date. So, but you're making a valid point. My my quick reaction would be we have in here police discretion for shared driveways. We just talked about police discretion
for a caregivers's residency. I'm sure we can legislate for every sort of situation, but I believe we could certainly add police discretion. Again, it's our police monitor these. And if it meant giving out two or three decals to
three standard caregivers for one location, I can't imagine that would be a problem. We don't want to say unlimited for every caregiver, every relative. I mean, you give out 10 decals for one space. I understand that. I also think it needs to be considered
and um hopefully none of you have ever had to deal with this, but it's not necessarily so easy to get one caregiver. Sometimes you go through numerous people to get someone that is a
good fit for the particular situation. So um all of that I think needs to be taken into consideration along with the verbiage of police discretion because we all know that does not sit well with me.
Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. I see other hands. Uh yes sir. have I'm coron speaking with an actual disabled person. I have some unfortunate experience in this matter. So, I want to propose some
compromises or solutions because what we've got here is problematic on a few issues. First of all, can we please allow or find some way for non-resident homeowners
to park? They aren't any less disabled than the residents. Yes, they're here for a certain number of months, right? I think the vast majority of them are here through the summer season. Can't we just set caps on, okay, it starts on this date, it ends on this date, and if
there's a problem with the police and checking up on the spots, set hard dates, work it out with them, do something. But again, going back to the point about people, you know, the non-residents and beach loggers, they're a very, very valuable part of this community. We know that many people,
disabled people in this town are members of families who have been here for generations. Surely, we have to be able to find some way to work that out. That's one. Two, and Linda made this point earlier, we have to allow street parking for people
in wheelchairs and vans, whether or not they have a driveway. Right. 11 ft. As Linda noted, 11 ft is required. My driveway is 9 ft, by the way. It's also on a slope. So, it would fail on two levels. And I think every driveway in
Bradley Beach that I know of, right, is not going to allow space for a van in a wheelchair. So, that's two. And three, uh, Mr. Mayor, I respectfully disagree about the $200 fine. I made some not fine. Sorry, not a fine, $200 fee,
annual fee. >> I called around. No one, no one around us charges anything close to that. Ocean Grove. I spoke to them yesterday. It's a $100 onetime fee. And I would point that that in the spirit of not dropping too much money on
people who are disabled and already spending on money on all sorts of things. And when you go to the motor vehicle office and you apply for a permit there, you know what they pay? They don't pay $4. So I get that they're working involved, but again, surely there's some way we
can work this out. Thank you. Thank you. Other comments or questions? Yes, Tracy Davidson 3044. I'd just like to mention about the uh driveway aspect of this ordinance. Um speaking as the daughter,
my father is deceased um of a double amputee who lived at 212 Lraine. not the house that's standing there now, but a very narrow driveway. And as his problems progressed and he went from a
cane through a walker to a wheelchair, he needed a spot in front of the house because he could not pull himself. had tremendous upper body strength, but pulled himself from the passenger seat of a car, slide himself into a
wheelchair, rolled himself down the driveway where, and this is really an important point, he had a ramp in the back of the house. Neighbors built that ramp for him because that's what Bradley Beach was.
It was a very nice neighborly town. It's not that way anymore. I don't I don't see it that way. They built that ramp in the back and then a neighbor said to him, "Why don't you just get space in front? You're struggling. Get a space in
front." And so he did. None of the neighbors complained and it was not a big deal. But that made a very hard life that he had every single day from the minute he woke up a little less hard. And it also made it a little less hard
on my mom, on me, and everybody else in the family. So when you talk about you have a driveway, all your problems are solved, they aren't. So I would think it should be on a case-bycase basis and when the police come or whoever comes to
investigate the situation, they take certain things into account. That's all. Thank you. >> Thank you. Yes. send the back. >> Uh, do again. Uh, I really don't get the primary resident issue with this.
>> I just don't get it. You have taxpayers paying the same amount of taxes as everyone in here. Yet, you're giving a group of people a privilege that a group of handicapped people don't have. What do I tell my wife for this meeting
after you vote this that uh that I'm sorry honey um we're not primary residents or you're going to lose your space and maybe have to park in Ocean Grove and somehow you're going to have to attempt to get to a house and I think it's unconscionable. I really do. I think uh this is being
rushed through. I don't understand what the big rush is with this. Why won't you make changes by taking the spots off the state roads and county roads? Make changes by doing your investigation about the the the uh fraudulent use of
these. Look at the numbers that come from that. And don't treat the taxpayers different. You can always go back and and take a look at this again. What if the number drops from 46 to 31? It may very well be with the extra cost of it
and and and the extra scrutiny that it's obviously going to get now. So, is that really a big deal for Bradley Beach? And that's like a reason to take this away from my wife. >> So, >> I would Oh, I'm sorry. >> No question, sir. I So, I just want to understand
>> Sure. You're saying you're you live in in this house in Bradley, but you're not a a >> I live in the house. We own the house in Bradley. >> Y >> I live in Connecticut as my primary residence, but we spend 5 months a year here when we're here at the house. And
let me tell you something, having that parking space has been a godsend. So, I just don't understand what the whole idea is with the primary resident. were taxpayers just like everybody in this room who lives in Bradley are taxpayers if they own homes. So I don't get it. I
think you should wait on this until you discuss a little further amongst yourselves about the whole primary resident statue and table this for the next meeting. That would be my suggestion. >> I will say I I appreciate your suggestion. Not saying we won't
reconsider, but just so you're aware, the reason this is, you know, on a kind of fast track for some amendment because there are many challenges we we face today. We wanted to improve it is because people can apply beginning January 1. So, we were trying to resolve
this before the end of the >> I think the form is a tremendous idea. I think it's if fraud is going on, nip it in the bud. It's not right. Um, I'm all for that, but why don't we enforce it first and then see what you're looking
at. >> I mean, it just doesn't make sense to me to do if you change five things, you don't know which thing changed what. But if you change one or two things at a time, you start to see the impact. But I mean, we don't even know how many people are in my in my situation here and and
who legally and need this and have to have this. and you're frankly going to wreck the quality wreck some of the quality of my life and my wife's life by excluding the non- primary taxpayers. That's all I got to say, guys. All
right. Thank you. >> Other comments, questions? Done. Right there. >> So, I just want to echo about the non primary residents. >> Oh, Don Greenberg here who parks that. >> Thank you. I just want to echo about the non- primary residents. I mean, it it
seems like a no-brainer. And if it costs more to manage those spaces, then have a two-tiered system. If you're a non- primary resident and it's going to cost the town more to paint over a couple times or take the signs down or you're going to then going to charge a little more. And I do think the 200's a
little outrageous because a lot of these people who are handicapped may also have income issues. Okay? So, you know, you're going to be pricing them out of the space. Uh, and the last thing is, uh, we were actually talking about a simple solution for the caregivers because not everybody has one caregiver.
There are shifts, right? Um, you know, a million years ago before I met Maryanne, I dated a nurse who did that, right? And she worked one shift. She had with people working free shifts. Instead of a sticker, make it a care a specific caregiver placard that they can use that
the that the person who lives there has the placard to give to the caregiver and they could just share it. You know, I mean, how much would it cost? 5 10 bucks to make a placard instead of a flimsy sticker. So, that might be a solution for the caregivers because not everybody
has one caregiver that lives there, you know, 247, 365. So, that's it. Thank you, Lord. >> Thank you. >> The one thing that >> I completely concur with the gentlemen
here. >> Sorry. Friendly Avenue, Bradley Beach. I will get it one day. >> It's okay. Don't worry. It's fine. Thank you. >> I completely concur. I cannot imagine the administrative difficulties of
solving of not being able to be resolved to have people who are here who own a house here who pay to have a house here who come here for 3 months who are legitimately handicapped to not have space in front
of their house. I mean to me that is just completely unacceptable from the door. And you know if it takes painting the stripes blue instead of yellow and blue means you know it just
it can be that again bagging the sign sounds brilliant or just let that parking spot be there or get inform the police that they don't need I don't know if this is impractical for the police but perhaps they could be informed that they don't need to enforce people not
parking there for that period of time and I'm sure this gentleman actually would pay painters to come and paint the curb over if you gave them that opportunity. Um, but it's it's that's unacceptable from the door. The issue with caretakers,
too. I mean, I understand that the disabled person is getting one space. So, I don't know why we're concerned if there's caregiver lives there. if they don't live there. If they're there, you know, you're going to have you you could
have the wife comes home from work at 5 and can and can handle and you know what the disabled person needs, but they need a caretaker who can get in and out before. I mean, once you've established that no one else that's not connected to
that house with that disability can use that space, really, why do you care whether it's a support person or that person in, you know, but that person's car in it, you know, and I think you're just complicating your life with that. And I
would say, you know, in with ordinances in general, you know, when we have parts that don't work and you go to fix one part, I would implore you to put in the extra time and the extra thought to to fix the whole thing. Do you know what I
mean? I mean, right now you can take a look at the criteria or maybe maybe right now just write an ordinance that says you have to have this form and then you know deal with the form, find out who's really disabled and then we'll go
from there. But then when you do look at this at the ordinance, you can look at there's places like administrative requirements. It says in January of every year, special parking permit applications will be made by the Burough of Bradley Beach.
In January, doesn't say when. Then it says all applications must be received by January 31st. So, I guess the town could take till January 30th to put the applications out and then by January 31st, the people
have to respond. Then on number two, it says all applications will be reviewed during the month of January by the police department and permits will be issued by the chief of police if elig is is you have the permits that are up in
December and then the renewal application is reviewed after January 31st. So, we we've got we we've got things to work on in this just before all these major changes are made
without really thinking of the consequences for real per people's lives and how their lives work. Maybe we could just clean up the whole thing, just shove it and and look at it and get it right.
>> Thank you. For the record, most of the comments folks have been offering are criticizing the current ordinance, not the changes. The one exception, no, all all that you just mentioned without >> saying is is why make major changes
>> that are that are questionable that are going to change people's lives. >> No, I No, it's a valid comment. I'm not >> And then to look at code and leave code with problems like let's just review. Let's just review an ordinance once.
>> Challenging the ordinance. >> Just be clear on that. >> Yeah. No, it's understood. Understood. And and 100% the change in a residency requirement is a significant change. >> All of the administrative concerns that were raised, these are not changes we've
made. So, I'm just trying to distinguish when we say when you're changing something important, change everything. We actually thought we were doing that and we weren't changing things we didn't think were broken until Miss Eggberg you just highlighted. I just want to make it
clear to folks everything that uh we're attempting to do we believe is in the best interest of the bureau but and we and you know we're going to continue to work in the best interest of the bureau uh without preempting however we're going to vote tonight.
But people need to just understand, you know, we've we've workshopped this. We had an introductory meeting. We're we're now gratefully getting feedback from folks, but understand it's not like we rushed through this. There's been a tremendous amount of time and effort
spent on this, and now we're continuing to get feedback, and I'm sure we'll all, you know, uh, consider that feedback. But I just need people to know this is not something we've rushed through. So, thank you, Linda. Linda, well, Linda was about 312
Greenley Avenue. Um, I was reviewing this and the portion that's 9-3.9 that says you will not be responsible for applying or uh and receiving an
application on counting and state roads. Correct. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, this is the state paper that says it's your responsibility. >> I'll read it to you. >> Yeah, you did it. Go ahead.
>> And it's in section 3, I mean C.394-197.52.6 exist authorizes municipalities to establish handicapped spaces in front of residences, schools, hospitals, public buildings, and in shopping and business
districts. So, I don't know who wrote this ordinance, this version. I don't know if they did their homework. Would you like this paper? >> Sure. Okay. My understanding on that is that um >> it's up to you. It's up to the town and we really have we already have existing
handicap parking on Lake Did you not know that? >> Okay, that's state you said. Correct. >> No state. The municipality. This is the state. There's nothing in the county. They refer to this. >> Okay. My understanding, and again, we'll take this into further consideration
with our legal counsel, is that um that is an option for the burough, but but in order for us to actually paint a space, we need to >> It's already there. So, we have done it in the past. You're saying we can just do it without contacting the state or the county. I'll get it done.
>> You could probably contact them, but there's no special permitting. >> So, the other problem I have is >> the driveway thing, which I had spoke to before. >> Um, I don't understand why. I do understand why each space in front
of each resident is identified by a caller. So, the car breaks. What do we do? You can't look at the placard that's in the card that's registered to that person. I'm just asking. >> So, I mean, if you would just I'm not
taking a position one way or another just for forformational purposes. In the past, like like several years ago, like 101 15 years when I was on the road as a sergeant, we would come across a lot of situations where people who had
the space would park in front of the space to reserve that for their friends and family that were coming down in the summer. >> I'm talking about >> that that happened all the time. >> That's still happening all the So well so that's why I think the changes remain to start identifying the space with
>> the person >> the person and then the space with the one one vehicle >> but again in your situation if something like that happens we we investigate it's >> something the door like
officer so and so is that your vehicle >> I mean that's all that has to be those stickers you can't even see them from the from the street so that's you makes no sense at all. Um, why are we giving a caregiver a space?
>> If the person doesn't drive and they have a living caregiver and they don't have a driveway, I don't see why that why the caregiver can't get a space. If they live there, >> they don't necessarily live there. >> Okay.
I had this in my family for years, John. And not necessarily does a caregiver live there. Every caregiver I had from my mother and father came from the Bronx. I picked them up at the bus stop. >> Okay. And then if they go home from the Bronx every day, then they don't get a
space. But if they choose to live in the place, >> this says they have to prove that they live there and then they get >> but they do live there for an extended period of time, Monday through Friday, once a month, maybe they go back to where they have a residence in another place. It just it just doesn't make any
sense. It doesn't. I put my mother in into the car through cards. It happens. You can do it. >> The other thing I have to say is >> why isn't January 1st to January 31st? I don't want to say this. I could just I
could have stroke in July >> and maybe need a space. How is that why isn't that addressed? >> It's for the renewal. >> It's for the renewal. >> You can apply anytime. that you can apply every time. >> Okay.
>> Well, the I think the annual the annual the the idea again we did not change this. This has been the existing ordinance for decades. But someone somewhere 20 years ago said hey let's do these reviews once a year. So in January
to the extent somebody becomes disabled mid year I know they come to the office. >> I would think that they would be given one if they could. >> And I think Mr. Champion had that idea with the bag. I think that's genius. So, here's this copy. You can look it over.
>> Thank you. >> At your leisure. Thank you. >> Other comments or questions? Yes, sir. Mr. Co. Thanks. >> Uh Thomas J. Coan, 6123rd Avenue. I I appreciate the council reviewing this
ordinance and following up on it. Um, I sat in this forum when Mayor Angel was the mayor and they wanted to cap the number of spaces at 75, which was absurd. It didn't go through. People who lived in town, didn't have
driveways, were upset about the fact that, wow, it could be 75 minutes. So, there is a frustration for people that also don't have driveways. But what I admire about this, we're creating the opportunity to privatize a public asset for the benefit of someone who is
handicapped. And that is a wonderful thing. And you making people go through the process. I mean, I had foot surgery. They offered me a application for handicapped space to say I I don't need it. But you know, some people get better from foot surgery. I can walk 18 holes
in. >> Would I need it? No, I wouldn't need it. So, um the the fact that you're going through this process to really review the oversight submissions that you're given, uh is really wonderful and will really truly help the people who need
it. Um but there's a lot of people in town and and a lot of these folks weren't at the other meetings. This was prompted by residents saying, "Hey, I look at this space for the whole winter that I can't park there." people have been in here saying that and um they may not be here tonight just like not
everybody who's on the waiting list for the lockers is here tonight but thank you for doing this. The master plan specifically says that we have a parking problem in town. That's a non-starter right there. So what you're doing is
improving the management systems for the spaces that we have and I can't wait till you line the spaces on on Main Street. That will be in another video. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Other comments or questions
in the room? Yes, sir. Mitch >> started. >> Hi, Mitch Clark. 303 Third Avenue. Um I I love the hearing the feedback from everybody. It really um makes you stop
and think and I think that's what this is all about. Um my first feeling about hearing the ordinance and reading about it um the driveways, it seemed like a no-brainer. It's like, "Oh, of course
you have a driveway." And um uh we're fortunate. I know uh when my mom comes to visit and we have to get her out of the car. I have a driveway and I think about how we struggle to get her out of the driveway. I'm one of those people
that has a driveway that looks like this and trying to get her somewhere and then of course one side of the driveway two to three foot high wall that you can't even the passenger side is impossible. So when somebody's driving
my mom here, we either have to um rearrange the car, back up the driveway, do something else. So I can understand challenges that could be faced by somebody who has a narrow driveway. So I've heard people say, listen, even if you do have a driveway, there are other
considerations to think about when it comes to maybe it is the width of the driveway, maybe it's the slope of the driveway that really doesn't help people who need that uh additional access. Um and also with regards to the timing of the
uh parking um you know I understand certainly in the summertime we know what the parking is like. Um I my first thought was well you don't have to do anything with the sign except remake them and say this is an effect from May
till September and um there's no there's no need to unpaint anything. There's no need to put a cover on anything. You know, we have we have rules about dogs on the beach from October to May. So, uh there's uh
you know, no parking on certain streets because of the street sweeper on Tuesdays to whatever it is on Ocean Avenue. So, it's not something novel about informing people about parking through the use of signage that says, "Okay, you know what? In the winter
time, it's fair game. you know, it's only in the summertime when residents need that. Um because I I think it's been made very clear that, you know, in the wintertime, you know, I look up and down the streets and, you know, there is lots of parking. I don't that may not
apply to every single street. Um I know if you go up, you know, Fifth Avenue, the oneway street by the beach plum, that just always seems to be the nightmare. Um, so I I think that some
consideration could be made for people with driveways um as well as maybe making some um notification, but it just doesn't sit well um somebody and we had residents versus non-residents. But when you're a homeowner in this town paying
property taxes 12 months out of the year, um you should have the same benefit as other people who are doing the same. Mitch, before you step down, just uh I want to make sure I understood your recommendation. You said, were you saying instead of painting the curb?
>> No, no, no. I said I I think you can keep the curbs the same way they are, but the sign because I think the sign is not I don't know which way the sign faces. >> Um I think it faces when you pull in. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, as long as it's as if it's if
it's visible when you're pulling in, um I swear I saw some signs facing the house. But as long as it's visible, then it says, "Okay, you know, May through September, this is a reserved spot. Afterwards, it's not." >> I'm just thinking we may, if we were to
look at that as an alternative, I think we'd have to consider not painting the curve itself, but rather maybe delineated space. Yes, you're you're you're absolutely right. Nobody's nobody's going to be able to judge that and say, "Oh, let me make sure I leave, you know, 18 or 22 feet or whatever the
amount of feet of the that would never happen." But yeah, they don't necessarily I don't know if there's a rule that they need to be yellow or blue, but if they're delineated some other way, >> I'd say people would probably be happier with a little white line than the yellow line. But
>> or we can just keep painting over them over and over again. >> Okay. Thank you, sir. >> Other comments or questions in the room? Yes, Miss This is >> Miss
Renee Magguire, 610 Brenley AB. Um, I just wanted to say that I I hear everybody and it is so difficult trying to manage all of this, but all I can think of is what's been
inherited since the nightmare we had prior to this mayor and knowing a mayoral candidate had his own curb painted yellow so he could have a spot. this is what we're trying to fix is the nightmare that came before this and I
appreciate as hard as it is and how long these meetings are. I appreciate we're finally fixing things. So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> No other questions or comments in the room to Zoom.
Anything in Zoom? Okay. I see nothing. >> Yes. >> Just one sentence. >> One sentence, please. Yeah, it's >> instead considering that it's one space, there can be caretakers that don't live in a house that transport that person to
doctor's appointment and so on. >> I think that in overall the whole thing may be a little simpler than it looks when they back away from it a little bit and I hope that it will be tabled and and >> thank you. Okay, I'll make a motion to
close public comment. >> Second, >> Mr. Noble. Yes. >> Mr. Regllet, yes. >> Mr. Nikki. >> Yes. >> Mr. Weber. >> Yes. >> Mayor Guboszi. >> Yes. So before we vote, I I just want to recap some of the things I've heard and and ask the council to confirm or or
deny. Uh significant concerns raised about um primary residence. And one proposed solution was have the ability to create a uh reduced time frame. So 3 to 5 months for example. um for a lot of
residents who own property but still are not primary. Uh and and I took notes here with that. The suggestion was maybe even have layered pricing if that is going to include a lot more work because we paint and then paint and paint again. Um maybe you know that is priced at a
higher amount to cover burrow costs. Um we also just heard Mr. Karp say you maybe there's no painting and and we do it all through signage. I think that might be challenging for our police to uh to police, you know, because people are just with with with no painting, I
think there's a risk of people not following the the, you know, the intent of preserving that space. Um, there were comments that I captured uh raising concern about the width of the driveways. I I think that A2
uh which does talk about off- streetet parking and does provide police discretion. I think we could if we so chose we could consider tweaking that language ever so slightly. But I think we largely have that covered even as the
ordinance stands right now. Um because the police could say there's not viable off- streetet parking if you have a 9 foot wide driveway. Um, and then the caregiver placards, uh, this whole conversation about caregivers.
It it did raise a good point, at least for me. I just want to want to test the council's reactions. That being, you absolutely could have multiple caregivers. Um, and what how would we, if we were to tweak this, how would we tweak it? Um, somebody said have
multiple placards. Uh what we want to make sure we don't do is have multiple placards for every residence and we probably take us down a path of having to define caregiver. My daughter's a caregiver. So does she have her placard
even though you know she is here for a few hours but we have other caregivers and and my nephew comes and he helps sometimes and he's a caregiver. My the concern is how do we control that? Well, you're saying this isn't and excuse me,
excuse me. Um, are you saying this isn't something new? I would ask um, Lieutenant Brownie, how many people apply for this that were caregivers? Captain Captain Lieutenant Lieutenant Detective Captain. Okay. Captain, yes.
>> Sorry, I got I know. And I still call >> that number off the top of my head, but I don't think there's really that many. That's what I'm saying. >> If any at all. >> Right. >> Most, you know, my understanding, you know, I I don't monitor that's not specifically one of my um details, but I
really don't think there's many at all. >> Right. And if someone were if there's any >> someone were to apply that has multiple caregivers, how would you handle that situation? >> Everything is handled just on a case- by case basis, and we would look into that and see what's what's the the necessary,
you know, does the resident have a car? you know is do we have is there one primary >> you know car use is like I don't know how many again every situation there's a million situations that we're going to run into so we just you know adapt
accordingly but I mean how many people come use that spot we'll address it right and if they have if they explain to us hey listen we >> we have permanent caregivers but they only stay one everyone there's seven of them and one one day a week or something
like that we would we could deal with that. >> Okay, >> we will find a way to deal with that. >> Great. I I think the greatest part of this is that we want to avoid a situation where there's a spot out there and the spot is kind of abused with and I'm not suggesting anyone abuses it
necessarily, but that it's abused that it's it's it's a um it's a dedicated spot and you know my friend is coming over and can park there in favor of the general public. So I think that was our issue in terms of trying to determine um
you know that particular spot to that home to you know any registration on a vehicle or whatever that's going to um assign it for for that specific purpose and not not to abuse that spot. So, however we can come to that in the most
simple way >> and I think that situation we largely I think we largely have it covered. Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong with with the current traffic. I think to me the I think most of these things we have covered with the to me the glaring
exception being the um the primary residence requirement which we know is the biggest challenge. But I as I've listened to the audience and I've listened to others while we could tweak with a driveway to just you know make a little reference and we could tweak caregiver to better define it. I think
the the more significant challenge that we would face as a council is whether or not uh we we think it's you know appropriate to have uh some sort of um layered approval that says okay it's not primary residence but but if you are
primary residents you know you pay a lower fee and you and you get this painted curb and if you're if you're no more than three to five months or whatever the range we'd have some alternative solution. Or rather than just a solid yellow, maybe you make it stripes and then the neighbors know, oh,
okay, when they're gone, I can park here again because they're seasonal. And I think that's what people say, like I I look at this empty spot all winter and it's kind of aggravating. So you paint it a little bit differently and the neighbors know cuz that's accommodating everybody then
>> and have proper signage that indicates. >> Yeah. And they'll say seasonal >> so it's not just code that >> seasonal special need parking, you know. So then yeah that the neighbors can park there once the person goes to Florida or somewhere else. >> Comments are agree that the primary
resident issue is the biggest issue. I mean you can create all kinds of machinations private w every house has its own little particular issue. Um but the primary resident as one gentleman have pointed out is really a key thing five months of the year and then taken
to lose that spot with no driveway. um you know it basically takes away his ability to you know come to his home. So I think we got to find a way to be able to accommodate that. >> Yeah. And I was just going to say the I
think the best thing I heard on the primary residents versus non-residents is just the signage, you know. So maybe on the application there's just are you applying for a 12 month year round application, you apply for a seasonal application and we make a distinction with the sign. Um, I will warn us about
trying to solve every single thing. I think we were pretty circumspect and we people did a good job on this. Um, let's not get into the what about this, what about that? What about we wait till these folks tell us this situation has arisen or that situation has arisen and
then this body can address that as time goes on. We're not going to get perfect. I mean, a good example of what you're referencing is the caregiver thing. That sounds like it's not >> Yeah, >> it's not really a we got we got none of them. Yeah. Five of them. No, we have to address it.
>> What's And again, what's your thinking on the the broader issue? I think the larger issue primary risk is required. >> That's what I'm saying. I think that's addressed by the sign away. I think >> it should be it should be allowed like but through the signage. And when people are applying, they're applying for
either a year round or let's just call it called seasonal. >> Well, and then the neighbors would know that that is marked as so a general person driving into town may not realize that, you know, gas, but somebody who lives there would know that, oh, that's seasonal. It's identified it on the sign
and they know they can pull >> it's January, so I can burn that. >> Okay. So, with that, um um um I'm going to make a motion that we and you don't have to uh support this, but I'm going to make a motion that we table our vote
on this until we have an opportunity Oh, yeah. until we have an opportunity to uh make a few relatively modest adjustments, but I don't think they would be dimminimous adjustments. So, I think we'd need to revisit. >> So, and reintroduce, >> right? Reintroduce. So by t are we
tableabling it then or >> we're going to have to rein? >> Yeah, we're going to have to t we're going to have to withdraw. I'll make a motion that we withdraw. >> Second. >> Mr. Noble. Yes. Miss Grabblat. >> Yes. >> Mr. Nikki. >> Yes. >> Mr. Weber. >> Yes. >> Mayor Guboszi.
>> Yes. Okay. What more work to do on that? >> One question. >> Yes, sir. Um if the the uh applications have to go out to table this when could you send out the new applications now
>> to start this process >> as it is applications have been coming in and we're not responding to them yet until we had resolved this. Uh, so we're going to have to come up with some sort of a communication and continue. I I would think, again, this is me responding top of my head, right? That
will probably grandfather or permit or whatever, all of the current ones to roll into January if we need that much time and then figure out whatever the new requirements would be. So, there's going to be some ability to uh not, you know, for us not
to respond to applications until we know what the law is going to be. at the same point allow people to continue parking until we figure it out. >> Well, I think this is a great compromise to be honest with you. You said you were going to compromise in the beginning of this uh the last meeting and I think
this is really a true compromise for and you should all be proud of that. >> Well, thank you for your for all of your feedback. >> The thing we always run into and you know we welcome feedback, we encourage feedback, we just can't always agree with all the feedback we hear. A lot of
times the feedback is in stark opposition to one another. So, uh, but I I think we're always going to try to do the right thing and we you won't always agree with us, but we're going to keep trying. >> And I'm as an outsider and I and I was very I'm heavily involved. I lived in Jackson for forever and it was a
nightmare council. So, I just want to say congratulations on not allowing perfect to be the enemy of good. >> We've heard that before. >> We have keep coming. special chance meeting in December. Maybe we can get this done.
>> I definitely see that. >> All right. I I withdraw my statement because I understand it was somebody else's. >> No, no, it's not. >> I when you say it's perfect. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> All right. So, we have officially withdrawn 2025-39. Correct. Erica.
>> 37. >> Oh, sorry. >> Sorry. 37. >> Uh Mr. Noble. Yes. >> Mlack. Yes. Mr. Nikki. Yes. Mr. Weber. >> Yes. Mayor Gubosi, I think I just took a second vote on that. >> We're not going to vote yes. >> Ratification of the first vote.
>> Okay, whatever. It's withdrawn. I got it. >> Ratify the ratification. >> Okay. >> No, I don't want to ratify the ratification. >> Let's Let's move on to or the uh adoption >> of ordinance uh 2025-38. This is clearly the beach locker uh
ordinance. We've had a lot of comment already. Uh but we are now officially going to open it uh the public hearing in a minute. Any other comments from the council or questions? >> Yeah, sure. Um this is a bad idea. I don't see how
removing the eligibility of of 150 200 people um to not be able to have lockers anymore after the 2026 season. uh you know that if it's truly 200 people maybe those they probably buy five beach badges each. I mean some people buy more some people buying less. It's a thousand
beach badges. I don't you know next year when you're looking at the numbers you're like oh we got a dip in the seasonal you know it's going to be because thousand people decided that they're not coming here because you kicked them off the the um list for lockers. Um, I I think there are some solutions. And I I also kind of like
what Mitch said, like what if like maybe we could hold hold back on this until we actually explore some of these sol these other options out of um for stores for winter stores that were were raised. Um I was thinking but then somebody else mentioned rooting and wood has a giant
front yard. Maybe we could use that. You know who uses their backyard of that property or the neck? >> Ocean Grove. Ocean Grove got smart and said we were going to put some of our stuff in Mount Lockers, but I think they put Beach Quick, but they own it. Oh, okay. Well, either way, it's in our town
and they got smart and they did. Um, I mean, there's a ton of room at the recycling center, the DPW yard that exists. There's a DPW yard on Evergreen. We know one's going to turn into the other, but we're probably going to have that space uh one day. Uh, and then this
is this is my this one's the original. This one's mine. So, I'm gonna Okay, we are building a new bulk bed to go south. You guys be quiet to go south from third to the edge of town to better protect the the third pound. Kind of proud of this because this was an idea. Said this
is crazy that it's not protected by a bulkhead. What if the bulkhead what if some super savvy engineer made a bulkhead that had locker spaces in it and still provide the same kind of protection? Don't hear it. Do I hear it? Okay. So my point is if we kick all
these people off the list and say you can't have it and then we then we solve this problem the space I mean what if the collapsible locker thing that was going what if we find out it exists and they're 50 bucks uh you know and all pay the char tariff from China you know and like be $200.
>> Yeah I was saying >> the problem is I'm just worried that we're going to do this and then maybe solve this winter storage problem which is really the crux of it. Um, and then we're going to have all these people mad at us and not coming to our town. And I have to ask, where does it stop? I mean, are we going to tell people if the
Halloween costume contest that they can't win because they don't live in Bradley Beach? Where does this stop? Um, people brought up the concessions, just to be clear, the or the surf camp and other things like that, those are concessions. They're not I don't think they're covered by the public trust. It's a concession that we have and we
can choose to give it or not um, choose it. I think they're open to all comers, though. Um, I will point out that the last couple years, correct me if I'm wrong, we've had no biders on a concession for chair and a beach chair, beach umbrella, um, as as a concession.
Had no biders. So, I mean, maybe that would change, but um, I don't I don't think that solves the problem for 200 people that are um, you know, and famously I'm not running for office again, but it sounds like maybe I could run in Neptune City. Yeah,
>> that's it. Thank you for the time. >> Can I please something? >> Um, so I was elected um a year ago to serve Bradley Beach and to serve the residents of Bradley Beach. I've been very aware that there is a significant uh waiting
list for Bradley Beach. We are a warm and welcoming town whether or not um we try and accommodate our residents or whether we continue to um accommodate the out of town residents. Um, we have so many people in Bradley Beach who have
very similar stories, who have been here for generations, who value their history in Bradley Beach, who have a strong sentimentality to Bradley Beach, um, who have been to some degree disenfranchised because they don't have the opportunity to have a locker. Um, if and again, it's
really an issue of parking. We bear the brunt of the tourism industry in summer uh, of our streets being completely full. So, if we move a car to have to bring uh chairs down to the beach um and come back and then there's no no parking
spot, that's a reality for those of us who live in Bradley Beach. Um there are events uh Bradley Beach has so many summer events through tourism that welcomes and and brings in uh others from out of town. Uh we have uh weekly
um events going on in Riley Park and at the oceanfront that are free to people and so many people from out of town come. We welcome them. Um we have fireworks, we have bonfires, we have a camp, a summer camp program that's largely populated by uh campers who come
from Neptune City. Uh we collaborate with Neptune City uh with recreation. So, we're looking to share services in space with Neptune City because we're adjacent to them and um we do have this agreement uh to you know it it would be
great if we could store some of our lockers in Neptune City, but the problem is is that there are many other people from other towns and we would not be able to discern uh the out oftowners from those who are very close out of town and those who are right here. you know, people. I have a sister who lives
in Ocean Grove who's not happy with this. She has a beach locker that she's had for about 20 years in Bradley Beach, but she also understands that her sister serves on council in Bradley Beach and serves the residents of Bradley Beach um
as a priority. So, um you know, we care about our residents, too. Um and I understand the plight of those of you who um have had lockers for many years, uh who live outside of town. Uh you many of you still arrive with your car and
come up to the oceanfront um can just as well you know store your chairs in the car and and do a drop off um in the way that many of Bradley Beach residents need to do. So you know I really feel for the residents of Bradley Beach who have been on these weight lists for a
long time. Um, and so in that respect, I'm very much an advocate of it and we are a caring community. We welcome all of you to our beach. Uh, we create a beautiful beach experience because we
are a beach that that, you know, our community swells in the summer. So, there's a lot that the residents um live with by being this oceanside beach community. Um, so please understand that and any of us who are looking to try and
serve our residents, we are not looking to disenfranchise those of you who are outside of Bradley Beach. So that's really not the intention. Um, so that's that's kind of what I wanted to say once we go into um public comment again. Um
but uh uh there were a couple of points that were made that that that's suggesting that we want to be exclusive to our residents and that that's a problem. This is something in every town that legislators and people um who are
running the town really try to serve their own constituency. And so that's sort of that's been my commitment as a council person to the residents of Bradley Beach with a waiting list that has 333 people on it. Many of you whom are residents in Bradley Beach that are
really not being served. So with that >> Okay. Thank you, Councilwoman. Anyone else comments or questions? >> Okay. Oh, sorry. Well, you know, I just want to say that, you know, council me well put and um we have a lot of compassion for our neighbors and I think that's really important the broader
community and yes, our job is to serve our residents um and and then the broader communities, you know, second. So, you know, and unfortunately sometimes that wins and sometimes that loses, but um it's a hard place to be in San Antonio to I think he said it very well. Thank you.
>> Okay. Thank you. With that, I'll make a motion that we open it up to the public for public discussion. >> Second. >> Mr. Noble, >> yes. >> Miss Green, yes. >> Mr. Nikki, >> yes. >> Mr. Weber, >> yes. >> Mayor Guboszi, >> yes. >> Public comments or questions? Yes, sir. >> Yes. Hi. So, just a couple of quick
comments. >> Would you mind coming up again? >> Sorry. Billy's Einstein City. So, candidly, it's tough to talk about this. thing even though I'm here for that after hearing the challenges of the complexities of people in handicap parking. So that said, we
have moved on so that um just a couple quick comments like Councilman Weber said, this really comes down to a winter storage issue and all the due respect to the other two council members comments. If it's not, it shouldn't be a Bradley resident versus a non Bradley resident
issue. If in good faith the council is saying if we could find winter storage, we'd figure out the issue. With all due respect, it doesn't sound like the winter storage thing has been examined that closely, and I think there should be time given to do that. Um, I did some research while I was sitting here. The
500 lockers are stored in about 62 parking spaces in the in the Kent Avenue thing. I did a little Google shot. 62 parking spaces to to get an extra 150 lockers. You probably need about 20 parking spaces somewhere to do that. Has
anybody asked the columns right around the corner was an empty parking lot? all winter. I'm being I'm just being facitious about that, right? But places like the columns are literally in Wall Township that has an empty parking lot all winter. They love to take our things and we buy uniforms with the money that
was raised to store it there. So, I just think the idea of as council member elect Karp said, we need to research the winter storage issue and it's not a Bradley versus non Bradley thing. If we if we research it and we find out there's no winter storage problem, we've
really researched it, then move forward with but as a non Bradley resident, I would say if there's really no place to be able to find put the winter storage, then I would say it should be for Brown people. But I think we should research the winter storage before decision.
>> Thank you. Uh other comments or questions in the in the room? >> Yes, you Yep. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'd like to ask you um >> I just need your name and the address again. I'm sorry. >> Tia Den from Ocean Grove. Um >> thank you.
>> You briefly explained the funding of the beach lockers. Um and I didn't quite catch you. If you could further explain it to me. I thought you mentioned that perhaps building the lockers um the initial funding $600 or $575
that funding was used separate from the beach utilities to build the lockers. Is that correct? Uh what I was saying was it's it's not beach utility funds. I think that was your uh phraseology in your first comments. It it's funds
provided by residents of you know Ocean Grove and every place else but we don't co-mingle those with other beach utility revenues and expenses. So >> thank you. And I just want to let you know that I actually um use those terms
because I view the prior recordings on YouTube and you use those um terms and you refer to it um as the beach utility funding and you actually mentioned that it came from the beach utility funding. So >> it is there. I guess we're talking around in circles a little. It is
currently is part of our beach utility but it's segregated. We account for it separately. It's part of the beach utility, but it's it's a it's a wash in terms of uh cost allocate. We we set the prices to cover our costs. So there's there's no profitability. There's no
loss. What we will do going forward, just to make sure I'm clear, is we will take that box of revenues and expenses out of the beach utility and and put it in the current fund. But again, it's not it's not coming from concessions at the beach. It's not coming from beach
badges. It's not coming from parking meters. I just wanted that to be clear. >> Sure. But historically, it sounds like you did classify it more as part of beach utility. >> It's in the beach utility. Today it is >> correct. So technically it belongs to beach utility.
>> We wouldn't we wouldn't consider that it's part of general funding. Correct. >> Today it's not too >> today. It's not. If we pass this it would >> and I apologize for cutting you off. But what you're looking to do is you're looking to change what has historically
been beach utility a beach utility item, right? This was built. These lockers have been built. They've been maintained for years historically as a beach utility item. >> And now what you're looking to do is
you're converting it into a general tax, general funding item. Do you see what you're doing here? is you can't misappropriate appropriate essentially beach utility assets into a general fund
asset. >> That's essentially what Belmar did. Okay. They got in trouble because they charge for beach parking because it's part of the beach utility fund >> and they tried to use that funding to
pay litigation costs that were incurred as a result of their town's town's issues that were unrelated to the beach. So essentially you are a trustee of these lands. You cannot you have a duty of care to the general common
public. everyone in the state of New Jersey who owns and and has a state and a right that extends to the 1800s back to England. Um, we all have a common right to enjoy these lands. And you cannot use this like an enterprise, a
business to generate funding and benefit for your taxpayers only. That is the issue. And I really suggest that you look into it, you review it because these are substantive rights that you are taking away and under the Civil
Rights Act, we have a right and a stake on those claims. It's it's a it's a complete violation of the public trust doctrine. Um, my second comment is I understand the frustration of the Bradley Beach uh,
I'm sorry, the Bradley um, residents and the only thing I add to this is that, you know, the way that these weight lists are administered, I don't understand them. There's no transparency and quite frankly, it doesn't make sense to me. There's a separate waiting list
for each individual area on the beach. Um, you have to specify which entrance you want a locker at. And you can't put your name on every weight list. You have to only put your name once on one single weight list. So, if you're in a very popular area, obviously, and with a lot
of full-time residents who, you know, sounds like generations of people holding on to these, then of course, you're you're going to be on the list for a long time, much longer than to be honest, probably the one that I had to wait 3 years for, which is on the border of Ocean Grove. Like, I guess no
residents want to be on that list. Um, so that's something that you have to consider and your residents have to consider. maybe change the way the that it's run and it sounds like there's no transparency. Um why isn't there a list for everyone to see where they are at on
the list and how long it'll take them to get a locker. So thank you very much. I do appreciate you know your discussions here and I understand is I believe this is volunteer um so I appreciate um your time and everything that you do. Thank you.
>> Thank you. I'm dressed like a listen. >> There's so much to address, but >> just just really quick be before some others join in. Uh I do take issue with your word misappropriation. It's it's fine that that's your opinion. I've
spent I would not sit here in front of you all tonight and in front of all your colleagues who were here and many of whom have left without having exhausted conversations with our legal attorney and with our CFO to make sure that everything we're discussing tonight is
legal. So to use the word misappropriation, it just I think is inappropriate. You said um generations of residents. Well, that I've had I've heard others saying just to clear the record, there is no passing down of this
um beach locker rent renter leasing uh status to the next generation. If your child, your dependents want a beach locker and you've got one already, you cannot hand that to them. They have to apply and get on their own waiting list. And then finally, you said no transparency. And in fact, we use
Community Pass. It's it's a website that you can go to and you can see exactly where you are positioned on your waiting list for your beach. So just just to clarify in case anyone else had concerns, I I wanted to address those comments. Thank you.
>> Breit, please join us. >> Breit Magguire, 610 Brenley A. Um, I just wanted to say years that we've been coming to this meeting, residents have gotten up and asked about these waiting lists and we've been told mayor after
mayor after mayor, council after council after counsel, attorney after attorney after attorney that it couldn't be done. And we finally have such a perfect example of a resident who put in hours
of research trying to figure out how come Bradley Beach camp and all these other towns can. And a resident put in tons of work, stood up here time and time again trying to explain all the research that was done. And we have
legislators that took all this time workshopping, discussing it, and actually finally figuring out how we can do it because the residents put in the work to figure it out. That is
government 101. And it's so nice and refreshing to see when it happens. When residents put in the work, talk to their legislators. And the legislators then follow through and put forth the work as well. and are extra transparent.
I'm sorry to say I I don't want to rebuttle anybody, but the transparency the lack of transparency issues we've had in the past compared to what's happening now is night and day. So, I just have to commend I can't I have a
hard time sitting up here like listening to this type of conversation when trans like it's been above and beyond the emails, blasts, the you know, Bradley Beach, you guys could have passed this whole thing tonight without even
alerting any Neptune City residents or out of town residents. So I I need to make that part of transparency very clear because I appreciate it so much compared to what we've come from. Um, I also want to say that I looked into this
a lot too for the sake of litigation issues. And I'm I don't know if I'm understanding incorrectly, but everything I keep reading states that yes, the beach utility it all those laws
cover the necessities, parking being one of them, beach access being one of them. the lockers being a luxury doesn't fall under that. It doesn't. It's the reason why it can be separated into and correct
me if I'm wrong, please. But that's what I've been trying to understand is how the locker can be put into the general fund to make this residence first only. So if I'm wrong, please correct me. But that's that's what I've come to
understand is that the the luxury it doesn't become this requirement that is needed for the beach utility to law to have to cover that. So um thank you. Thank you for putting residents first. And I I do have friends on the other
side of it. One of them's here. And it's breaking my heart, but to see residents being put forth put put first is just refreshing. So thank you. >> Thank you and yes. >> Hello everybody. Um Carol Peters, 4th
Avenue, Neptune City. Um I'm not going to make any legal argument. Uh this is just coming from my heart. um with a long-term residence and we've had our boot locker for a long time and when I heard about this I was
very brokenhearted. Um, I wrote to many of you. Um, I just wanted to say I live a few houses outside of the border of Bradley Beach and I feel as much a part of this
community and I thank many of you who live in Bradley Beach and stood up for us today because some of the things I had read online frankly were very hurtful. Um, somebody had mentioned kick them out.
We are part of this community. We are not here only three months of the year. We are here 12 months of the year. And we are the ones who support all of your businesses.
When I go to the beach, I do not take any parking spots because we go by foot or by bicycle. Um, we walk to all of your restaurants. We do our banking here. We use the law office here. We use
the gym, the hair stylist, the the garage, the bakeries, the ice cream parlors, the gas stations. We are every bit as much a part of this community as the people who live here. And so I just
wanted to ask you please to think about us because if that does, you know, if if we lose our lockers, it's a major game. I I don't even know if I'll be able to go to the beach anymore because it'll be that hurtful.
So I just ask you please do consider us. And again, I thank those of you who spoke. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Nancy Costa, 619 Fth Avenue. Um, Mr. Wmer, you mentioned the recycling center, that lot, and we were just there
and it's this huge empty space, right? >> Yes. >> Wouldn't that be a great place to put lockers? >> That's why I suggested it. >> Right. I'm just >> Right. >> How However, for the record, Mr. whoever hasn't talked to the head of our DPW to
>> what I'm saying if that's >> but he said we can't transport lockers to that space >> because I mentioned this earlier I don't know if you were here >> we it's oversized the equipment if it's not allowed to be on the streets perhaps we could get permits it also jumbles the
lockers it makes you know makes them uneven or whatever unbalanced he told me we tried we before any of us were up here the over the beach tried that a number of years ago, put them in that space. Uh, and it wre havoc on the
physical lockers and we stopped doing it. >> But we get them to that parking lot by the same heavy equipment. They drive down Ocean Avenue. >> How do we store them on Ocean Avenue in that parking lot? >> Oh, we drive them on the beach, >> but it has to come up on Ocean Avenue.
>> I guess they can do it for 10 feet, but they it's legal because they're staying on the beach. >> Okay. Anyway, and it's just just so people know the facts and that we've researched this to the nth degree, but please continue. I think Lauren, you're next.
>> I would I'm would just ask you and it's funny because the thing is I I wish when people moved into town, they received a pamphlet like Lauren and Bert for avenue. >> They just um Oh, her again. They
I wish they issued a pamphlet on how government works and and and also that people felt safe um giving their opinion in the government space. Um maybe what ordinances are being um discussed could
be sent out via email as opposed to just going to the website to look at them. Um, I don't know, but I I wonder and I don't know how many more people would would pay attention, but I wonder how much how many of our residents that are
on that wait list would say, "I want a locker that somebody's had for 6 years with the understanding that it renews and they paid an entrance fee that was even bigger and I want them kicked off so I can get that locker." I'm not sure the percentage of our
residents that would want to see that happen, you know, and I also noted that the people who have come to talk about the hardship of not having a locker um tend to be a little bit on the older side, do you know um with not feeling as
comfortable? Like I see people walking down the sidewalks in Brandyley Beach with the with wheels on the thing and they, you know, and taking a whole bunch of stuff to the beach and um somebody mentioned, well, my son does it now. He pushes that. I think that it deserves
creative exploration to see if there's another way if if if lockers can be aortioned. Maybe there can be a preferential age difference in terms of where you go on that list. I don't know. Um
I too would ask that or maybe what you could do if you must pass the ordinance tonight, pass it with with at least with a grandfather clause, you know, and I think that also protects the town because the part it's not just the separation of the funds and what can be
done in the beach that concerns me. It's the expectations that we're giving when people bought into this. And I also have been around courouses long enough to know that it's not just expensive when a case win, you know, when somebody wins a case. And very often we settle for great
amount of money for cases that didn't have much merit from the very beginning. So, you know, I don't think we need that in order to or anybody in town wants that in order to move up a whole lot faster on that list. So, I just again
ask you to put the brakes on to to see if if some adjustments can be made here. >> Thank you. >> Yes. I mean, no one want to get it. Um, I just want to
come back and say Bradley Beach has been a mainstay for me personally, but listening to what a few of the council people have said, um, I think withdrawing it at this point, looking
into more detail of it so that the residents and non-residents, I mean, I heard some wonderful things where possibility of other parkings, possibility of foldables. Um there god knows what can be made today. Um so that
there are options where those who have lockers and the 333 and probably the another 50 more after that in the next year that are going to want one um may possibly be able to all be happy at the same time. So, I'm thinking if you
withdraw now, it especially when you said you're not putting into effect until 2027, right? That's still correct. >> Correct. >> So, it gives you a little bit more time. We get through this summer. We look at all different options as to where can
you store um and yes, I don't know. I mean, can they be stored on the boardwalk, >> side decks of the parking lot? I don't know. There's there's different areas. Um I also I I grew up on Mave Avenue.
My locker moved me to another beach. So I'm now on the end. Like I said before, my mother um she's basically born and raised as a six-month resident. April to October, April 15th to October 15th, her entire
life. She's now 83. Um, this past summer the, you know, the I love the paths on the beach. One of them had some wrinkles in it. Her flip-flop got caught. She's carrying uh her lunch bag. Face planted.
Boom. Okay. Had to get a new bridge. Had to get some things going on and everything else. Still going to doctor's. Everybody was saying Sue Bradley Beach. my mother, myself, my family, I will not
put back Bradley Beach through that. Um because it it's from our heart. So for us to feel like that we're now getting kicked out, >> you know, if that comes about, I think just withdraw it now, look into it in
every details and options and share with us. We've asked for this area as a storage. We've done this, we've done that. you know, I I heard the columns is always empty and that's sad because it'd be busy now. So, um, just reconsider there. There's more details to look
into. That's all I'm asking. >> Thank you. Other comments in the room? Okay. Uh, we've got a number of them. We'll start with you or next with you, Don. Thanks. >> Don Reberg 302 Marketplace. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. So, uh, first of all,
what what she just said, what Eileen just said, and what Mr. Weber said, take the time to explore this a little further. It's not even Thanksgiving. All right? Lockers don't start until Memorial Day, right? >> April
>> or April. The applications don't start till April. Look into it a little more. Uh, if you guys don't have the time, get a volunteer committee. I volunteered, okay? I would be happy to help look into it, but if you pass it now, you're going
to piss off so many people. I mean, even if it gets repealed at some point, you're still going to piss off so many people. And just one point, and a lot of residents, a lot of fellow residents won't like what I'm about to say, but residents don't own the beach. Beach is
held in trust for everybody. Okay? And those lockers are on the beach. Okay. So, you know, it's not about that the resident should have first priority for what's on the beach. Residents don't own the beach, but I get the frustration. I
I waited four years for a locker, okay? You know, I'm on the north end, so, you know, I didn't have to wait seven or eight years because it's not as popular. But I I really implore you guys just hold off, table it, you know, do some
more research, get get some volunteers to help you do it. And I think it'll make a better decision. And other than that, I'm I would say I'm just I'm glad I'm not sitting up there and helping them make this decision
because it's it's a tough one. Um and I know your intent is good. Um, but if you pass this, the result will be disenfranchising people. And I know that's not the intent because I know you people, you're all good people. But if you pass it tonight, you will
disenfranchise 200 people. That's >> Thank you. Uh, Mr. Co here. >> Uh, Thomas J. Co3. If you do want to do a committee, I would volunteer to be on
it. Mr. Beanber and I work very well together. >> That's right. >> Um, you know, you're going to be, you know, if you don't pass this tonight, you're disenfranchised and relevant to these people came out here tonight in this big crowd and they were they were
reticent to come here first. Just took the first guy, give him a lot of credit. And they they said what people have been saying in these meetings for years. Why can't I get a locker? So, uh, let's not forget that. I'm a little puzzly about how this works cuz um I have a bestkept
secret for Fourth of July weekend. Um I actually go to Memorial Park in Neptune City because it's not as crowded as Bradley Beach and I go subboarding and kayaking, but I got tired of dragging the kayak out there. So they built the kayak stack things and I called up and I
said, "Hey, can I get one of those?" They'd be like, "Oh no, it's Neptune City resident." I'm like, "So I I got to look into that." Mr. Greenberg. >> Um anyway, um the problem Bradley Beach, Bradley Beach is burdened by what has
been because Bradley Beach does it the wrong way when they begin. So, uh this reminds me a lot of the meeting where everyone was crazy about the benches that were lost in Hurricane Sandy. I had a memorial bench for 25 years. My aunt
Sally's name was on it. I needed to be put back. Well, they paid 500 bucks back then and now with ventures of 1500 is no written document, nothing. It was it was it was a horrible meeting. So, the
parking horrible foundational documents. That's why we are where we are now. So, I admire you for taking this on because I've been in here when the residents have said, "Hey, you know, um when am I going to get a lot?" So, um you're in a you're you're not in a difficult
position. It's really about the residents of Bradley Beach. Um, in in terms of the the law, you know, sometimes new law gets needs to get made. There's lawsuits about the beach all the time. You know what? Let us be the one because I don't understand how Aspberry Park does it. I don't
understand how Spring Lake does it, but for some reason, Rally Beach can't do it. So, we're I I don't really want to see 800 blockers on the beach. I mean, it's it's not that attractive as it is, but it functions. But again, it was never set up properly and I appreciate
you trying to repair the parking and repair the lockers. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Yes. >> So, thank you. 8404th Avenue City. And again, thank you. You are all in in a hard place. I I understand that you're
trying to write a wrong and and and put order to where order wasn't there. So, it's always a place to go. I think out of everything that's in your affordance, there is one thing that you could fix and that would be item B3 where there's
B3 that I that a a person or a family owns multiple family homes and they have multiple family lockers. And so I go back to the come to the next meeting that you have on this if you have another meeting and you I and I I
encourage you to not pass tonight without getting numbers and find out how many of those lockers are set to a single you know one person owns five, six, eight lockers on the beach cuz they've got investment properties and they got them as a as a courtesy to
their investment. even just making um that way you're not what if you table this but you only pass one piece of the ordinance you're still not disenfranchising the Bradley Beach residents because nobody should be having two and three lockers and four lockers so that way you're saying hey we
we we were still doing some more investigation but we know this one thing for a bat you shouldn't own more than one locker in Bradley Beach right so you would be able to you know do a little ying and yang there but I I I encourage you oh and Mr. Canon, I brought my
contract with me, so if you want to see the contract, I was with um and and it's kind of loosely worded. If I would say anything, get that figured out. >> I I definitely didn't write it. >> That's all right. I'm I'm I'm with legal. I'm a legal consultant. So, but
it's it's kind of loosey goosey as far as to what happens with that money. The first year was 545 and every year after is 200. The next question that's going to come back to somebody is they're going to say, "Well, I just paid $600 last year and I'm not going to have my locker. Are you are you refunding me the
400 differential?" Because that the 200 would be the the the fee. Are you prepared to prepare, you know, to refund 400 whatever that number is back to the people that you're going to unengage, disengage with? So,
not anything anybody else has said. Come with your numbers. know how many residents, non-residents, how many lockers, what we've got, what our prices are. You can't make informed decisions without data and and you don't have the all the right data. You know, even even when you're to your parking situation,
come with numbers. Numbers don't lie. That's how we make decisions in life. So, I I implore you not to say yes. I understand, you know, the Bradley Beach residents wanting to be there. I'm at 12 I'm here 12 months and I'm hoping I'm here 12 months for a whole lot of more
years. So, um, yeah, we want to help you and I, as a Neptune City, I'm not involved in Neptune City government. I said I'm not doing this ever again. But, um, I would I would help if you do need research. I don't I don't need helping as an external. I don't mind helping. I'm really good at research. I do it all
day long. So, table everything but P3. And then at least you will have done made somebody happy to say, "Hey, we took care of that problem." And you're, you know, so you're making little steps. It goes back to the parking. make little steps. Don't try to fix everything all
at once. Just say, "Okay, this year we're gonna say this and and with the full intention to say, next year we're gonna do that." And then you're building on where's the problem? What problem are we solving? Instead of let's just try to solve everything all at once. Thank you again for your time. You're not in a
you're not in a happy place, I am sure. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Mayor, can I ask a question? When you had indicated that there is space on the on the beach to have about 150 more >> 100 to 120
>> 100 to 120 and we currently have a waiting list of 333. >> Yes. >> So that it doesn't solve the problem. >> Well, you can always put lot against bulkhead too if anything. >> I'm sorry. But no.
Yes, sir. Not. Why don't you go first? No, it's okay. >> I'll give a shot. Don't worry. >> Uh Chris Lenegro, 8104th Avenue, Neptune City. Uh I'm just asking that you do please table it. There are so many
things that could be um addressed. Most notably, as it said, finding storage areas. Uh it would be kind of, you know, it's going to cause a will. It is. And again, none of us are gonna be spiteful to do anything wrong, but um works your best to piss people off. You know, it is
disenfranchising. It's a little bit insulting. I know you said you're here to represent the people of Bradley Beach. Uh and I think a lot of us made it very clear. We do feel we are part of the Bradley Beach community. Really, really do. I bring my granddaughter to play in the playground, play the and it's great. I appreciate it. The only
difference there is that I don't pay tax dollars in Bradley Beach. So if it's a matter of dollars then you know I hate to bring it back but you know we don't people the taxpayers don't pay your tax dollars to own the beach and I don't even like having this argument because
to me it's not about money it's really not the solutions are as you said storage uh possibly some of the some other type of device we see all these things like the outdoor storage units that we all have or I don't you know the hefty ones what maybe that's a possibility maybe there's something
bottom line is I think there's some solutions that could be researched and maybe find something good without making this move yet. It doesn't have to be done today. Lockers aren't done till the spring. This is something that wasn't going to go into effect until 2027. I'm
just really asking that before it really starts an uproar and um people's say their feelings are hurt, but you do get disenfranchised and and bothered and spiteful and you don't want people not to have that feeling of being a part of this community. As I've said, I'm not
alone. We take care of things. We take care of this town like our own, right? You know, our own town, Neptune City, or wherever we're from. We don't want that. I don't want to see a change. I want to feel us first. All right. So, I just really ask you please to at least wait until we've researched all the different
uh options to to do before we do this. >> I just want to point out the storage element. >> Yes. >> Right. If we do secure storage elsewhere for additional lockers, we only have enough space on the beach front for 120. So that only takes care of a third of
what's currently on the waiting list. So it doesn't exactly solve the problem by finding some more storage and just adding 100. >> That's one of them. Other type and if there's other types of storage maybe that might be that we can fit some more. Someone just said against the bulkhead. I was thinking the same thing. Nowhere
along the dunes. Why can't I mean I'm there's a lot of room up against the bulkhead today. I'm not sure why that maybe we could check also there with the DPW. Why can't they be you know facing each other? June's facing back bulkhead forward. I'm not you know that's how they actually do it in Afford and in
Delvir. So it's obviously not a not a rule thing that you can't put them against the bulkhead. And again truth I wish we could do a lot more like that to make a lot more money. That would be wonderful if more revenue could come in. be amazing. I really would. Not offering
to pay more, but more revenue would be great. Again, I I just implore you to just research more uh options before I make a decision. I'd appreciate and I do appreciate you considering. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Well, >> Paul Shankin 411 and a half avenue. I am
a Bradley Beach resident. I have a Bradley Beach locker and I think it's a very bad idea to exclude non-residents. Um I've had a locker actually from from day one which brings up some interesting
issues. Of course the contracts were quite different back on day one. Matter of fact, there were no lockers. So of course when we paid a fee to have them built they were built with the money that we paid for that. Um, matter of fact, we were led to believe that
basically that, you know, we actually owned that box then. And in fact, the burrow put our names on the box. Not a number. There was a number, but also name plates. And that lasted for one year when they realized that was problematic. You've
heard of something that's been problematic from the beginning. It was set up badly financially, legally, everything from the beginning. And you're trying to correct it too fast right now. And I really I go along with
John. I think that you really have to explore a little bit more other solutions and not rush into this. I think you're going to piss off a lot of people, including me, who has a locker um because I don't think this is the proper solution. My people,
>> thank you. Yes, Meadow Ocean Park condominiums. I really didn't expect to speak to either of these issues this evening. Um, and we all know my motto has always been
a bad locker is better than no locker. But these lockers have been a problem since probably the second year that Mr. Siri built them. And I've had one since the first year. I think I got locker number four.
>> Um, so much of this Well, first of all, no matter how you vote, I implore you to grandfather anyone who does not live here that has a locker. >> Not just for one year.
That's just bad if you don't. It's mean. It's nasty as to who then would get the next ones. That's a whole other debate as far as I'm concerned. But this also goes to a bigger issue and
Mr. Cohen brought up the benches during Sandy has to do with how this burrow keeps records. And it's not just a matter of gee, it's on an Excel sheet because then we lose
the Excel sheet if people did it wrong. I don't know. I'm a big notebook person. It's probably because I'm a teacher. I still use a spiral book. I don't understand how we never have records of anything. How many times were we told we'd have records of the benches? We
don't. How many times were we told we'll make 10 lists on the lockers? I don't know. No, I don't touch community pass. But while you're working through all of this and I understand what that I'm sorry I forgot your name.
I remember that. I mean >> and and >> you're in the right culture >> that >> you're in the right >> battle at least. um got to look at the little stuff and see what little steps you can take to improve things because again we make the
same mistakes over and over again. So I implore you no matter what you decide and I don't care that you have no records cuz I'm pretty sure I can find my checks because I keep everything from my original locker.
do what's right and make improvements as you go along. It's so important on every level of the way this burrow functions. I wish m Mr. Dy were here. I know we will be playing
this, but I don't envy it, but you got to straighten things out. Thank you. >> Thank you. Yes, in the back. 41. I do have a beach locker. I'm not
bragging. I'm just saying if somebody wants to put their chair in my locker, had it for over 30 years. I've actually I'm also on the wait list to move for about eight years, move it closer to where I live, which no big deal. You know, I am where I am. I have one, but I
can move. Point is, if there's 300 people on the wait list, you're talking residents versus non-residents. How many are residents versus non-residents? Because now, if you give up all those non-residents to kick them out and you only have 30 people for the town that wants a locker, now what do you do with
the 120 that are empty? Go back and try to find those people and say, "Hey, we got lockers." So, that's an issue. The other issue, which I feel is this town is quaint. I love to frequent the restaurants, but if you're a resident here full-time, how many times do you go
out to eat? You think more of ah my family's here, I'm cooking, whatever. You do go out to eat, but you look at our restaurants, a lot of them are the outer towners that are coming here to our restaurants. They patronize our stores. We don't even have a shop right here. You got to go to Neptune to go
here. You go to other towns to patronize their places to get food. Outsiders come here. So to this inherit them from something that they've been in some of people 40 years 15 years it's not right this was not right. So if
there was some other way, you know, and sometimes people get spoiled nowadays. All about I got to have a trophy. I live here. I want this. Well, guess what? Just it is what it is. Not life isn't always fair, but if you know, you can have a car for 50 years. I'm take your car away. Why? It's, you know, I know
this weird thing, but said it's just not right to do it. People who've been supporting this town 50 plus years, 40 years, it's not a right thing to do. And like I said, if anybody wants to put chair in my locker, I have room. Thank you.
>> Other comments? Yes. >> So, um, Linda 312 Brinley. I'm not sure what this young lady's name was, but she actually, now I know another person who has a locker, doesn't use a locker, but pays for the locker because they go to another beach. Does that make sense?
on the street on one person on one street but lives on another having been put on a list for another but she keeps an empty locker >> supposed to say that >> no someone else >> okay so I applaud you for going for this
this is the biggest headache I'm sure you're going to have >> to get at least tonight there'll be more >> I know I'm sure But um it's very difficult decision to make. Fortunately, a lot of people who spoke negatively
about combining residents with non-residents have lockers. I have a locker. I think it's very important to keep the residents happy, too. They do. I mean, I don't lose my parking space because I can walk or ride my bicycle, but I have to bring my husband to the
beach. So, I have to park my car at between 5 and 6:00 in the morning on any given day and take the handicapped spot so another neighbor can drive my husband up there and get the stuff out of the locker to bring him to the beach. If
not, I make him wait outside and he can't stand up that long. So, it's hard for people that are handicapped. I'm not looking for that that specialty anything. I just want to ask this. This is totally off topic. Can you paint those handicap
um blue? That yellow is so awful. >> It really is. >> You're talking about the pickup and drop off spaces. >> No, no, I'm talking about the lines on here. You got spots of them. >> Okay. We're so lonely. >> It was so pretty, >> right? But we're talking about >> I know, but I just want to bring that to
get later. >> He said it was off topic. >> It was off topic. >> We're almost afraid to ask it. Who else has a comment or question? >> I have one on Zoom. >> You have one. >> We're done in the room. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Yes. On Zoom. >> Christina Cruz.
>> Christine is Christine. Hi again. Um I echo what people have said before me. There may be a 300 person weight list, but how many of them are residents?
>> Do you have that number? Perhaps. If we >> so how how many are residents? >> Well, that's the thing. People keep saying and it's bothering me a little that we don't have data. We have to make database decisions. We have a lot of data.
>> We don't. >> Can you share that? >> Yeah. And I said this earlier, I will repeat myself that the data is only as good as what we've collected because we have waiting lists that are people have been on these waiting list five and
seven years. We got their address when they signed up for the list. >> We don't track them every year. We had no reason to track them every year because up until this recent time frame, everyone was just on the waiting list.
We were not differentiating. So if we were to change our ordinances, we would have to track them. Right now, what I'm told is out of 300, the total amount is 100% accurate, 333
waiting list, what I'm told is roughly 120 to 150 roughly because people change addresses and we don't know. >> Okay. And then to the point, this is all coming up because you cannot
find a location to store the lockers. We talked about that the beach can fit 150 more. There are currently approximately 150 residents on the weight list. If you
do charge a little bit extra to non-residents, which I believe everyone has expressed that they are willing to pay, then you can look for land to store the additional lockers.
What is happening tonight is going to impact Bradley Beach for years. I mentioned my family, but I hear other families from Neptune City,
people who would die to live in Bradley Beach, but we cannot afford it. So, we settle for Neptune City. This is gentrification.
you are making a mistake if you move forward with this and keep it to residents only because when I do save that money for the down payment for my house or I sell the house I'm in right
now and I do move to Bradley Beach as a full-time resident, are you going to give me my locker back then? This is >> this is a very black and white amendment
for a very colorful issue. I really urge you all to table it. Consider what we've said, mix our opinions in with the data that
you have. Share the data so we could be more informed as well. So we don't waste your time because we don't know the numbers. But I ask you to do what you did with the parking spaces,
which is table it. Consider how nonresidents get impacted by the parking situation and apply that decision that you made
earlier this evening to the lockers as well. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Another comment I I've had. >> All right. Good tit. This is 605 Newark Avenue. First, I want to be very
transparent. I don't have a locker and I don't want a locker. Okay. >> So, number one, this is not liked and death. Number two is how long have you all spent time on researching this? because all I'm hearing is everyone saying you're not prepared, you're not
doing this. How long has this been going on? So, just to educate the public, >> months. And me personally, I've been more involved than the council, but I've shared results with the council. We've done a lot of >> Thank you for that, Mr. Mayor. So, for people just to say you're not prepared,
you didn't do your homework, that's just just not appropriate to say. Um, number two, for people just to say just go find land. That costs taxpayers money. That's 6 months out of the year that we would have to rent property to store these
lockers. And you've already have indicated, I mean, and if anybody has seen, you know, these are just boxes that are put together. These are not, you know, storage units you're going to find in, you know, Publix or whatever. And you have big equipment that's
picking them up. these things get damaged, you know, and they're out in the elements. So, I mean, people got to be realistic. I mean, these are not, you know, like space capsules that are going to last forever. So, but I don't think people are realizing the time and effort
that has gone into this. Um, the fact of the matter, there's a cost for us to rent property just to store these lockers. I live on the 600 block. Guess what? I drop people off or I walk it. I'd like to get my steps and I have a
little beach buggy that I I haul my my stuff in. So, I know I'm not the norm and I understand people love it, but you know, and also I'm a taxpaying residence and and you know what, it is refreshing to hear that you're putting residents first. And you know what? Yes, we all
share the beach, but you know, Bradley Beach residents have to come first from time to time. And yes, everybody's welcome. We are a welcome community. I feel that we are a kind community too. But you know like sometimes you got to draw the line and that's what someone said. So that's all you're going to hear
from me. I thank you for the time and effort and we have to do what's best for Bradley Beach first. Thank you. >> You have one more on Zoom. >> Thank you. >> iPad too. >> Um whoseever iPad on Zoom can you identify yourself please?
>> Hi good evening. My name is Stephanie Stasiaak and I live on Cheyenne Street in Titan Falls. Um I guess I'm a little farther out than everybody else who's been in Neptune or Neptune City, but um my husband and I, we actually just recently got a locker this past summer
um on Lraine. We've been on the waiting list probably for eight years or so. So it was really nice to see that we did get the locker. Um, I know a lot of the residents were saying that it is a hardship for them to move their car and drive their things up to the beach and
they go back and lose their spot. Parking definitely is a premium. So, I know that is an issue. I mean, the same thing for us even prior to having a locker. I can tell you how many times we've definitely walked, you know, six or seven blocks lugging all of our stuff and now we have a toddler. So, having
the locker has definitely been helpful for us. But we are definitely those people that you'll see going down the street with, you know, the beach buggy. I get it. They want a locker for convenience so they don't have to log lugg their stuff. But again, if you live in a beach town, majority of people who
live in a beach town, the draw is you can just take your stuff and you can walk and go down the street with your things and not have to worry about driving or move your car. Obviously, if you have a handicap or there's a necessity for that, that yes, I can understand that frustration there. But I
would be very upset and again disheartened if you guys did take it away from outside residents. Um, you know, we've been coming there 20 years plus. You know, same thing like other people. We buy the beach badges in the summer, not for us, but for friends and
family. And in the summer, it's like, you know, I we only live 15 minutes away. So we're there from prior to Memorial Day weekend through, you know, the last warm days in October, during the week, on the weekends, and just as much as the locals are. So it would be
amazing if you guys could either table it or still consider, you know, grandfathering people in who are not residents of Bradley Beach. Thank you. >> Thank you. Other comments or I'm sorry.
>> Okay. Any other is that fair? So >> okay. So with that I will make a motion to uh close the public >> um >> second that hearing close the public hearing. >> Thank you. Uh second
>> Mr. Noble. Yes. >> Mr. Green. >> Yes. >> Mr. Nikki. >> Yes. >> Mr. Weber. >> Yes. >> Mayor Gubosi. >> Yes. Okay. Um, any comments or questions that the council wants to consider or share before we vote?
>> That was good. >> So, I don't know whether I should say this now or say this when we go through a vote. >> You say no. You might influence us one way or the other. Um, I as I had mentioned before, you know, I'm here to serve the residents of
Bradley Beach and I understand, you know, the the plight of many of you who have their lockers um who are out oftowners um whether it's Neptune City or wherever else. Um
I uh I also um feel I I recognize that there is a time frame that we can work with because we are planning this for 2027 and would be open to really doing a deep dive into our lists and
understanding. Um this would require a lot of research to understand where the people are who are on currently on the list. uh and then do a whole verification process of the people who are current lees um because we have the time to do that
and I would give that um um that time um and consider that uh because I don't think we have to rush into it necessarily. However, um what it boils down to for me is serving the Bradley Beach residents. Um and we are again I
just want to say we are a very open and welcoming community. Um the beach is open to everyone. So if you have a locker, you don't have a locker. Um we're not closing the door to anybody. Um we're just trying to better serve our residents when there's an opportunity to
do so. So with that, I'm kind of on the fence about my vote and I was very prepared to vote in favor of this. Um, but I think that if we do do the due diligence of really understanding the
hard numbers that we have, um, and what the needs are, so we can prioritize our residents. um if there's a need to, you know, if we have if we find that we have 150 residents on this waiting list to to
and and the ability to build some more lockers and are able to store the lockers, I would be in favor of that >> of doing that. And and I would also, you know, um we would have to kind of square the finances of it and it would also be
in favor of the residents in terms of differentiating costs if there are extra costs if we had to build the lockers and then also store them. So I'm kind of wavering because I do understand the importance of so many people who value
Bradley Beach. I do prioritize our residents because that's my role. um as a legislator. Um but I would put this off and do a deeper dive, have a better understanding of what we don't know in the lists. Okay? And again, it'd be
better if we didn't necessarily suggest which we were voting, guys, but uh rather make comments. I'll make I'll make a couple quick comments, but one is u um there's so many moving parts here. I
I guess it's it's probably hard for those of you who have come, especially to a council meeting at Bradley Beach for the first time, to to understand what I'm about to say, but we're really not heartless people up here. We really care not only about our residents, we
care very much about our broader community. We understand people who have lived here for years, families who have lived here. uh there we I I I speak for myself, but I think I can speak for the council that we are
just very compassionate people and we are always going to try to do what's right. One of the challenges I've had is a lot of you and understandably you've come here to, you know, to speak up for yourselves, but a lot of you have made really compelling arguments that what
we're doing is not legal. Honestly, that falls on deaf ears to me because my attorney is telling me it is legal. So, if a if a lawsuit comes, I you know, obviously we hope it doesn't, but we've been educated to believe and if we if we
didn't believe this, we wouldn't be having this discussion, but we've been told that that uh the uh the public trust, despite what many of you have said, does not apply to laws. and and uh this young
woman near the front, you you mentioned and I appreciate that you've done some homework, you mentioned and I personally have said in prior meetings I in prior meetings over the last five years, I've said I believed it did public trust doctrine did apply. So, I'm I'll be the first one to say you can find video of
me saying that. And I stood fast and defended everyone's equal access to the beach only to learn over the past few months with many of our own residents, you know, raising concerns that in fact I was I was mistaken, at least according
to our very learned uh learned uh council that >> mayor. I also want to point out there's five other towns within 10 miles that do it. This isn't my This isn't my individual legal opinion. There's five other bureau attorneys. >> You're studying Barry Cook and Avon who's been there for 40 years and fought
multiple different public trust option lawsuits on behalf of Avon. So, I want to put that out as well. It wasn't just I also consulted with them as well. >> Um, so I I've talked to other mayors and other towns. The bottom line is I just want everyone to understand when I'm
voting it's not going to be about legal arguments because as far as I understand it is something that is legally uh you know uh appropriate uh for us to decide one way or the other which way we want to do it. But we're not in our minds none of
us believe we're if we vote to change that we're violating a law public trust. Um, you know, others have talked about, well, you can make more money or you might lose money or, you know, whether it be our merchants or whether it be uh
loss of beach badge revenue. Um, honestly, I I can't be persuaded by these arguments just because ultimately I've got to do what I think is I got to vote for what I think is the right thing for Bradley Beach. Um,
we recognize people have pointed out, well, you might not get enough lockers to fill the void and we might lose money. Understood that. Understand it completely. Might lose beach badge revenues, people who have purchased badges forever. I don't want to sound heartless. I I I want to say, you know,
I embrace all of all of the folks from uh municipalities outside of Bradley because you are part of our broader community. But at the end of the day, uh, you know, it's it's not going to come down to, you know, that that notion of community
because I guess there's this one other thing and and Sean, you just alluded to it and you folks have probably noticed that I'm already a little sensitive to the fact that we keep saying we need to look at more data. I I I disagree with you. Just, you know, respectfully disagree. You were saying drill down
more data. We've drilled down. I think personally, and everyone's got to vote their own mind, but I think personally we know enough that it doesn't matter what percentage of people we have with lockers and what percentage of people we have on the waiting list, resident,
non-resident. It doesn't matter. All that's going to tell us is how many dollars we win or we lose here in and making this move. I think we all have to just vote for what we think is right. whatever right means to me I'm leaning right is our our our residence but I
want to say a really important thing to folks I am not at liberty to say to share with you all the conversations I'm having trying to locate property I said in the very beginning of this meeting it's all about the storage
everything else is secondary because if we could create the lockers in China you mentioned we can build another 120 lockers we can but we can't store them So right now if we if we grandfather everybody long term, you know, multiple years until, you know, until they no
longer want to go to the beach, um we're not to me that's not a solution because it's not addressing the the storage issue and it's not addressing the waiting list issue. So what I wanted to say to everybody is I think the grandfathering of one year, we haven't
discussed this, but I want to say it before we all consider voting. There was discussion about eliminating uh the lockers immediately with with this current beach season. And we went back and forth and not everyone on this
council was in agreement, but we got to an agreement that we would grandfather one year. And now that doesn't move the the waiting list at all, but what it does is it gives us all and me in particular more time. I'm I'm I'm talking to other
uh I don't want to say individuals, but I'm talking to other entities that might be able to provide us space at a reasonable cost. And maybe we can solve this. Maybe we can't. No commitment to anyone. But I just want I I just want people to understand we've been we have
data. We're doing research. We continue to do research. As recently as this morning, I had a call about potential property. In my opinion, we still have to make a decision. And grandfather, grandfathering, as you said, buys us all basically a year. Um, and hopefully if
we find solutions that work for everybody, including that property owner out there somewhere, if we were to vote yes to to introduce this, I understand the alienation. I understand the the people being pissed. Don, I think was your word, pissed. U, I
understand. And and Paul said, a few others. I I'm just speaking for myself. I understand that. I feel horrible to the extent I'm going to vote the way I'm going to vote as you can all tell. But that doesn't mean we're stopping to look for
solutions. So I want to make sure I'm as clear as I can be on that. M >> Oh, John, go ahead. Sorry. Yes, ma'am. Um, so I mean people should know that I worked on beach access for a good part of my um career and beach access, the
kind that is governed by the public trust doctrine, it's generally open, you know, in 90% of the towns, there's just this few, there's a handful of towns in New Jersey that really go out of their way to try to restrict beach access. And I will say that those are not nice
towns. Okay, they may be like aesthetically nice, but they're not nice in spirit. They're not nice in demeanor. Uh, and I do not want Bradley Beach to join the ranks of those towns. And we will become one of those towns if this passes. And again, I'm really concerned
that this passes and then we somehow solve the winter storage, then we're still going to have this thing on the books. And I just don't think we're ever going to go back and we're going to be one of those towns. Um the attorney said earlier when we were talking about amenities like bathrooms and parking that have been determined that are
actually part of beach access. Um you use the words should the courts extend this to lockers. Well you know courts don't just extend things to lockers. They're they're not going to read the newspaper next week and say hey we shouldn't extend this to lockers. It's because of lawsuits. This happens
because somebody sues and somebody wins. That's how this happens. And I'm concerned that there's 200 people out there and they're not going to have something to spend 150 bucks on next year and that's $30,000. I think I can think of some attorneys
that would take that up for $30,000. Like I think this is a you know um I know you say the chances are slim. I know some lawyers will take a chance on that. Uh and then we'll be in the headlines again for for all the wrong reasons. So, um, since my council
colleague here is, uh, kind of on the fence and has expressed that, I'm wondering if anybody else on this council maybe would consider tableabling this, um, and then we would know what we're going to do tonight. So, if if that's on your mind, maybe say so and
um, we can make a motion and do that because what sounds like >> Well, I'm following the mayor's lead. We do have a year to really figure this out a little bit further. A lot of things we didn't talk about is the aesthetics. You're adding more lockers on nature. It's it's nature's beach. It's the
birds. It's you the the the grasses. Everything belongs there except for the lockers. Why are we going to put more things on nature? How about this? We are a nice town. I share my locker with someone from Neptune City. Why don't we do a locker sharing program? If you put
that on Facebook, hey, I got kicked out. Can you share a locker with me? You know how many people say? Absolutely. Put put your stuff in my locker. Let's share. I don't want to have more ugly on nature. We have enough of it already. We don't
need more lockers. We need more forward thinking. You know, share your locker with somebody. And stop building things. That's I mean, to me, I have a locker, but if it went away, I wouldn't care cuz maybe I'll there'll be a bird's nest there next year. And that'd be good.
It's okay. I don't have to have a locker. So, I mean, we're making something a mohill out of a little dune. This is just just crazy at this point. Share your locker. Let's just get move on with this. Thank you. >> Mo out of the dune.
>> Yes, I I did a little beach human. Yes, you're welcome, >> Councilman. >> I think there's plenty of discussion already by everybody and I think there is some time to try to solve it. Um but on the other hand um I I also still lean towards you know you know the case of
you know how do we serve the residents and um >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> All right. Well I I will make a motion that we vote to adopt ordinance 2025-38.
>> Second. >> Mr. Noble. >> Yes. the screen block. Um, for the moment I'm gonna say no because I'd like to give this a little more time. >> Um, Mr. Noiki, >> yes. >> Mr. Weber,
>> no. >> Mayor Kosi, >> yes. And I also want to give more time. >> Um, okay. Next order of business is moving to our resolutions. Item eight. >> Resolution 2025-336
rejecting all bits in connection with the 54 Ocean Avenue. >> Folks, could we please exit quietly? But thank you for coming. >> Okay. Um yeah,
>> really. >> Can we please stop talking? Thank you. 2025-336 rejecting all bits in connection with the 54 ocean a reutilization existing building. As I mentioned, our existing
bond ordinance was not adequate to uh enable us to hire a contractor. So, I make a motion that we reject uh that we sorry that we approve resolution 336 to reject the bids. >> Second, >> Mr. Noble. >> Yes.
>> Mr. Springlet. >> Yes. >> Mr. Nikki. >> Yes. >> Mr. Weber. >> Yes. >> Mayor Guboszi. >> Yes. >> 2025-338 granting permission for property located at 121 Main Street to maintain. Oh, okay. This I'm going to make a motion.
We've learned more about this. It really needs to go before the land use board. So I'm going to make a motion to withdraw. >> Second >> 338. >> Mr. Noble. >> Yes. M. Greenblat. Yes. >> Mr. Nikki. >> Yes. >> Mr. Weber. >> Yes. >> Mayor Kubosi. Yes. The next one, >> please. >> Okay. The next one is um ordinance
2025-339 authorizing the Burough Bradley Beach Shade Tree Commission to submit a grant application with the New Jersey Forestry Service. I'm going to make a motion that we withdraw this. They were going to apply for this. It was for the
preparation and development of a plan which they already had. So they can apply for it after all, but they can apply for other grants like the one that they did for $40,000 also for the one that they did for the inventory. So they're going to apply for different
grants, but not this one because they cannot apply for it because they do have this plan done already. So I'd like to make a motion that we withdraw ordinance 2025-339. Do I have a second? Second, >> Mr. Noble, >> yes. >> Miss Greenlet, >> yes. >> Mr. Nikki, >> yes.
>> Mr. Weber, >> yes. >> Mayor Guboszi, >> yes. >> Thank you, ma'am. >> 2025-340 approving an official logo for the burrow of Bradley Beach to ensure consistency and uniformity. And Mr. Weber, do you want to comment on this? >> Yeah. Um, I just I had made a comment. I
don't know if the resolution was changed or if it would be a friendly amendment. Um, yes, there was a, you know, the resolution says there's committee on unified branding and they came up with this logo. I think what we're adopting is slightly modified by um, let's just say the governing body. I just don't
want it to be down that we're adopting what they submitted to us. It's slightly modified. So, if that can be >> So, what do you want changed in the resolution? >> Just um, oh boy, I didn't have it in front of me because I wondered if it was uh, did you share with the writing shot?
>> Not with Eric. No, great is the limit that directed the resolution. >> This was Sorry. The number again. >> All right. It's We just would say uh Oh, no. Here we go. Um
>> as the last whereas um you know you say after significant work and thoughtful consideration say huh and slight modification by the governing body I think the rest of that is fine >> wait slight modification of the governing body
>> by the governing body okay meaning what we're adopting was slightly modified by that governing body Okay. >> Yeah, that's >> anyone anyone who has a seen it the resolution's got a picture. >> Yeah, this is the first resolution I think that comes with a picture along, but uh yeah, just >> I just want to say really great work on
this. We we were definitely overdue for something like this. It's fresh and it's it's current. It looks really nice >> and it was a group effort. >> It was I know I was part of the group and it wasn't an easy decision. We had a lot of good ideas and >> I'm glad it's it's it's done. So, thank
you again for all your work. Good. So, am I making the motion or is somebody else making a motion? >> Yes. >> Okay. I'll make a motion that we adopt ordinary sorry resolution 2025-340 approving the official logo for the burough of Bradley Beach.
>> Second. >> Um, Mr. Noble, I approve. Miss Greenblat, >> yes. >> Mr. Nikki, >> yes. >> Mr. Weber, >> yes. >> Mayor Guboszi, >> yes. Okay. The next three resolutions are basically all the same resolution. We are just uh officially authorizing
the sale of uh three different burrow properties that were that you know are about to close related to um the demolition of the of the church that it used to be on Lorraine Avenue. So 2025-341 authorizing the sale of the bur property
located at 317 Lraine and I won't read the rest but uh I'll make a motion to approve. >> Second Mr. Noble. Yes. Mlet. >> Yes. >> Mr. Nikki. Yes. >> Mr. Weber. >> Yes. >> Mayor Guboszi. >> Yes. Make a motion to approve 2025-342
authorizing the sale of burrow property located at 321 Lraine. >> Second. >> Mr. Noble. Yes. >> Mr. Greenlet. Yes. >> Mr. Nikki. Yes. >> Mr. Weber. >> Yes. >> Mayor Kubosi. >> Yes. >> Coding 25-343. Authorize I'll make a motion that we approve uh authorizing
the sale of bur property located at 606 Madison. >> Second. Mr. Noble. Yes. M. Springlot. Yes. >> Mr. Nikki. Yes. >> Mr. Weber. >> Yes. >> Mayor Guboszi. >> Yes. Uh before we adjourn, we don't have council comments. I'm going to offer to
those of you who remain on Zoom in here. Uh a very happy and healthy holiday. Happy Thanksgiving. Thank you all for coming and bearing with us today. I know it's a a long and somewhat intense meeting. Anyone else want to come? >> It's a bonfire. That's great.
>> Bonfire. >> Okay. I will make a motion that we adjourn. Second. All in favor? I >> meeting a journal. is out here.