we'll call to order to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands One nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all The 48 hour notice is required under the
open public meetings act has been met as notice of this meeting with emailed on January 31st 2025 and published in the aspar press the poster and the poster The copies and placed on the bulletin board in the burough office and the copies and filed with the burough clerk
Chair call Uh yes The uh Do we want to call roll that's what I'm doing Oh yes I'm here I like doing Mr Mayor here Uh Mr Wishbo is excused this evening Miss Hernandez
here Um Mayor Rubski here Miss Mahoney here Mr Mayor here Councilman Wiki here Miss Sarosine is excused this evening Mr Park here Mr Barnett here Miss Ley here And Mr Frederick here And also present
this evening um Annie Rosudo our board attorney Gerald Freda our board engineer and Christina Bell our board planner So um I think we need to have everybody reworn into their new positions and then we can get started They all have their sheets I gave you
everyone's sheet Yes So the only one that we'll do separately is the class 4 uh board member uh Mr um Mayor Maynard Mayor where are you okay So we're going to swear you in and then the alternates we're going to swear in So so if you'd
uh go ahead and stand and raise your right hand Here we go So repeat after me I Robert Maynard I Robert Mayor do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States that I will support the Constitution of the United States and
the Constitution of the State of New Jersey in the Constitution of the State of New Jersey And that I will bear true faith and allegiance that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same to the same and to the governments established in the United States To the governments established in the United
States and in this state and in this state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people and that I will faithfully impartially and justly perform And that I will faithfully impartially and justly perform all the duties of office All the
duties of office as a class 4 board member as a class 4 board member For a 4-year term expiring 1231 2028 For a 4-year term expiring 1231 2028 According to the best of my
abilities so help me God according to the best of my ability So help me God Very good sir Thank you So then we have we have Mr Frederick who's a new member Hi welcome And we
have uh Mr Carp Mr Warette and Miss Lady So if all of you could you can stand up if you prefer raise your right hand and say your own name and your own title Uh we're going to speak it all together So
I swear or well okay swear that I will support the constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of New Jersey and that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and to the governments established in the United
States and in this state under the authority of the people that I will faithfully and partially and justly perform all the duties the office according to the Okay that's so
help me God Okay so everyone everyone pass your signed form back to me Okay so that's Thank you Yeah we will do that Do you have your oath sir i sent it You
passed it too Okay I will go ahead and sign Thank you everyone Great Um welcome and thank you for attending the April 17th 2025 landings board meeting The board will observe a 10 p.m time limit uh where no new applications or testimony will be started after 10 p.m
without a polling of the board first The application is not completed during the meeting A continuation date will be announced by the board attorney Uh we like to maintain a civil environment for this public hearing request No calling out from the audience Everyone will be given an opportunity to be heard After
the board and professional staff have completed asking questions the witnesses the meeting will be opened up to the public for questions only of the witnesses This there will uh there will be a time for questions only uh and not for comments If you have a question please raise your hand and I will
acknowledge you to come forward to the podium Before asking your question please state your name and address Also spell your last name and direct your questions to the witness If a person from the public is represented by attorney he or she must speak through that attorney All attorneys should
register their representation to the board at the start of this meeting After the board of professionals have finished questioning the applicant and before the board takes action on the application I will open the meeting to the public for comments This will be the time to speak
on the application The same procedure I previously described for questions is followed All members of the public who wish to make a comment will be sworn in under oath by our board attorney Please be aware that the applicant uh and their attorney have the right to cross-examine any members of the public who make
comments Written statements Letters from individuals who are not present petitions or speaking on anyone's behalf is not allowable under NJSA4 55D-10D Written statements from public uh from the public cannot be accepted as
they cannot be cross-examined Public participation in this meeting will assist the board in making decisions We hope that the public hearing and your attendance will be a rewarding experience for all and thank you for participating Um any resolutions
uh no Can we just u minutes from the prior meeting get that out of the way Um did anybody have any recommended changes or does anybody have a motion to accept make a motion to approve Second U Miss Hernandez yes Um Mayor Bossi yes
Councilman Noiki yes Um Mr Clark yes Mr Warette yes Miss Lady yes Um Mr Mayor yes And Chairman yes Thank you And there are no resolutions to be
memorialized this year Are we keeping this order or application and then we'll do the Yes Okay So um we have one application under consideration this evening Um application LUV24/15 final major site payment with use and bill references for the proposed
expansion of the car wash uh VFR Enterprise LLC block 32 lots 4 and 5 that's 1111 and 115 Main Street and the applicants proposing to demolish existing improvements on lot 4 in order to add additional vacuums and associated
site improvements to service the existing car wash on lot five the applicants represented by Jeffrey P Beman and Esquire Excuse me Good evening Mr Jeffrey Beman Law Firm I represent the applicant Uh this evening I will have uh our
witnesses Um Elizabeth Waterberry I have John Ray uh traffic expert and then my client is also here to testify Stephen Resn Jeff real quick we just have to excuse the mayor and council Yes Yeah Being that this is a devariance the mayor and
councilman would have to recuse themselves which they will do and leave the room Leave the room Sorry guys Full disclosure and no offense to Mr Frederick but I did represent Mr Frederick about two or three years ago
probably one of the last um board of adjustment uh hearings Um so I just wanted to bring that to the attention of the dis um and council uh because Mr was one of my clients and um I bring that to your attention I appreciate that Mr We
believe you have a conflict in this Let me just I don't believe That's true I don't have a problem with it I just I needed to break the attention If anyone from the public has a problem obviously it's okay for him
to fine I have no problem to the public to see if the public has Sure Thank you very much Any objections from the public of board member Frederick continuing seeing none I'll leave it up to
you want to feel left out Do you guys have something you want me to pull up here we got a few exhibits I had a nominator over there because Mr has no objections Yes I spoke briefly with the um with the new member He's not
voting tonight because he's the fourth alternate But I did want to give him the little spiel If there's ever a problem let the chair know and he'll call Being a newcomer that's that's a great thing Can we swear in the um the professionals
sure Do you want to swear in the three witnesses together or Let's do them all at once Okay Do you want to swear in your client now or are you sure we can swear them all in Okay Yeah Yeah Why don't you John and Steve why don't you come up sure Okay And our two and our two board professionals professionals
will as well Everyone raise your right hand Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do Thank you Thank you Hello Mr Ray Good seeing you Speaking Thank you I just have a few exhibits that we'd like to uh just mark
Um these were for the most part submitted They're just supplemental to what we submitted Uh the first is a color rendering that Libby uh had prepared And Libby you made you made that color rendering through your office Yes And when is it dated does it have a date it's dated April 16th
And the difference from what uh it it was as file as filed is it's in color is it it's the same and there's some combination of mater on it and some not on it like the extra notes aren't on it but it's a layout with the landscaping
on it and then coverage Okay Let all that is the same as the submitted document and let the let the record reflect that eight copies colored copies are being passed out to the board to the board representatives
do you want and that will be marked sir as A1 yeah that's fine the second exhibit Libby um you had obtained an area of the surrounding neighborhood is that what this is yes it's to show the surrounding area The
location of the lot is shown in yellow Uh it's taken from a Mammoth County Geio have their uh uh property viewer and also the record should reflect that the board secretary is taking uh possession okay possession of
the of an original of each of these exhibits for the record And so that'll be I guess mark A2 and it's the aerial surrounding right um was there a date associated is there a date on the aerial um so the aerial it says up at the top
that it was Oh I'm sorry Yeah No this it's for 2023 but for whatever reason this is 729 24 That's why I took it down off the Okay And Olivia the next exhibit is a chronological area from that same source
uh from a uh from the New Jersey Geo Web uh site Um I think they all are from that same date of July 29 with the exception of the 1995 aerial that I redid on Tuesday on April 14th Um the
first one two three four Five of them are from the NJD geo web because they'll provide hysterical hysterical historical historical some of them are kind of hysterical but
historical aerials and uh the last one is from the Mammoth County property border berry for the record how many uh sheets is a this would be A3 how many sheets are there
sticking together for six six pages Thank you Thank you And did we get one for Mr Sure Here you go Thank you Um I gave you an extra I gave you a little
extra There you go Do you want to come up here because I've always move this Liby the next one if you can just describe what this next exhibit is So I had taken down from the NJ website from
their water quality um uh they have a resources in their water under their water quality department and there one is a pamphlet um that says leave your buckets of exp sponges at home and then
the other which is attached to it is a second sheet which is a poster that they uh that they have on their website Uh concerning Washington Mr Waterberry uh I see that those are uh
copies on front and back Can you tell us what how many front and back pages exhibit A4 is so the first sheet is front and back because it's a pamphlet So it's the two sides So it's so it's one document In fact it's actually two stapled together The first one is a
pamphlet that's on two sides The second one is a one-sided poster Okay And the third page is something There's no third page Okay So it's a total of two pages Two pages One The first one's
front and back Yeah Four pages Three Three pages For the record A4 is three pages There's a mix of front Thank you
And the last exhibit was from our client He'll identify this uh later but it's regarding the uh the noise decel levels of the equipment that he's proposing to the And sir how many pages is that six pages Six pages 85
Look at you Here you go There should have been 12 to five I had one more I have one And we did email it to you today So All right Libby please provide the board
with your uh expertise and professional licenses So uh my name my official name is Elizabeth Waterberry I'm from EM Waterberry Associates Yes they are associated That's me Um and I'm a licensed engineer and planner in the
state of New Jersey I am currently the city of Long Branch zoning board engineer and planner on the burrow of West Long Branch engineer and planner I have been the uh township of Homeell's assistant engineer and also their
planning board and zoning board uh engineer I've been the Union Beach engineer and the board engineers there as well I uh in the towns that I don't represent pretty much all around here This is my first time in Bradley Beach but not my first time before you all
Certainly not my first time at Bradley Beach I'm a local resident from the area I'm a beachy person and um I have been the planning board and zoning board um chair of in my town I'm an a professor
at NGIT for the construction engineering technology and I am an instructor at Ruckers at the center for government where I train all the zoning officers and I'm not going to say board secretaries because we say planning and zoning administrators for their
certification classes I have to say that's fine Yes Um and your licenses are current Yes I would I would say we would accept those amazing professions Thank you so much Thank you So Liby you were hired by um
Steve Resnikov the uh um managing member of VFR Enterprise LLC Is that correct yes And you were hired to prepare a site plan to merge two existing lots Correct Correct Can you just describe what the lots what the layout are of these lots today so in their existing condition and
what you would see on sheet two of the plans that were submitted to you all is that on we have two lots We have lot four and we have lot five On lot four is an existing car wash that has uh a
middle of one two principal buildings There you go up on the screen So just to be clear the the addresses go from south to north but the lots go from north to south Correct
Lovely Yes Yes It's been it's been fun trying to figure this one out So the address of the south lot which has the car wash is uh is 11-1ven Is 111ven And it's lot five Yes Lot five And then the adjacent lot that
has a vacant building right now that at one point was an auto body shop and then was a a car parts retail shop is on lock four but that's address 115 Main Street Correct Main Street Bradley
Beach What is the block so we have lot five is one no block lot five is 111 main street and lot four is 1115 and what's the block 32 the block is 32
thank you um okay so as far as the review before you started this you asked me to do an oper request correct correct what do we find out during that opra request when it comes to prior hearings before
Bradley Beach uh land use So we found out that in 1989 the site that's on lot five which is 111 one Main Street 41's Main Street was before the board because it had an
existing the main building that's in the middle of the lot as you can see on sheet two existed on the property as a uh car wash and they were before the board in order to get approval to put the building that's in in the southwest
corner up in the and if you're looking at the plan the uh left back corner of the property in order to put in selfservice um car wash at that time there was a drought there were water restrictions
there was a request to be able to have the individual car owners be able to wash their own cars and to not have them try to do it at home and there was also approvals at that time to uh install vacuums Yes There was also approval to
put in eight vacuum stations on the site around the perimeter and um the only thing that you were able to review was the resolution Correct Correct I did not have the plan Were you able to review anything in the aerial records that
might reflect what may have happened on this property over the last say 60 years yes And that's a package that we gave you I was trying to kind of walk you through the history of the at least a visible history of it from an aerial standpoint The NJB
uh has historical aerials of the whole state You know now that it's easier to take pictures a little more frequent um and since the approval was in 1989 I've kind of given you a series that was before that and then right after because
obviously they do do every single year So in the packet that was provided to you which was a A3 on the very cover is an aerial of the site from 1977 and you can see there the two
buildings Uh I've outlined the combination of the lots in yellow and you'll see on the lower building the the uh car wash that has the tunnel In fact you can see the striping that takes the cars around the back and into the back
of the building that existed prior to the 1989 approval And then on lot four which would be just above that is the uh existing building that has had the auto
body shop and then the car parts retail when you I was say why don't we run through the aerials and then unfortunately 1995 would be like the next that would be the best I' shown it on here but that's probably out of all
of them I don't know why 95 is less clear than 77 but you know it must have had problem with the camera that year so we have but you can see at least in generalities that 1995 would have been after that 1989 approval and you see
again in white on modified the t the building in the middle that would be the car wash and the construction is complete of the selfserve uh state uh building in the back the building on lot four still remains and I
want to just note to you that when you look at the 1977 area on lot four the back of that lot was fairly tried and when you go to 1995 that lot it has a perimeter on
between it and the bowling alley that's uh adjacent on uh lot three and two Uh there's a little tree line that's right under the yellow line Uh and the rest was open When you go to the next area which
is much clearer it's 2007 so we're kind of progressing oursel forward the D would make it a point to take pictures when the leaves were off the trees so that they could see best for and usually what they did is they would
take pictures at points that they were changing their regulations so they'd be able to see what was grandfathered So this was 2007 You can see that along that lot four and three there's that tree line that I spoke about It looks more like sticks sticking up Um the
building on lot four looks similar to how it was before You can see a car parked in front of it The building on lot five very similar to what's shown on the 1995 one The pavements brought pretty much to the back which you had to
do in order to provide access to the building the uh selfs served building that was approved And again you can see the striping Some of the uh white dots around the perimeter are the vacuum stations When you go to the next area you go to
2012 2012 looked pretty the same only with cars on the site Same on lock four Lock four had lot four had some cars and things of some kind in the in the back of the building
but that you know you have the tree line along lot three and uh the building in the front and the parking the pull in parking in the from Main Street in front of the building along four Uh 2015's next one Just trying to show you that in
the history of this particular site Once it changed after the 1989 approval it basically stayed the same And so I'm trying to just walk you through to show you that when you look at the 2015 similarly the buildings are the same
There's the white areas along the perimeter that are the vacuum stations and the pattern of flow around the building you know starting on the north side going to the south side is very similar Then we get to the 2023 area
which is the last one that's taken from the Mon County property viewer You can see on lot four uh the building this uh particular picture shows that the canopy of the trees that are between lot four
and lot three uh is has leaves on it So it's more prominent across is I will offer to you that from being out there it's still that same line of trees that was in the other photos only when they didn't have leaves on them And when you
look at the site the existing conditions plan and demolition plan which is sheet two that we've located had the surveyor locate every one of those trees along that edge Um I want to say they're either on or the property line or on the
bowling alley where the trunks are located but the canopy overlaps our particular uh lot on lot four the on block five you can see that uh the configuration the both buildings are
still there the pavements in basically the same place in the back and you have the path around the building so looking to just show you that we had that approval from 198489 and that uh s that construction
was done and since that time except for maintenance type of things that property has remained are pretty much the same And so now if you can just review what the boards were proposing this evening Excuse me one second Let me just confirm
for the record On each of the sheets that you just went through on A3 on the left lower uh side right under each picture there is a date and that is the download date of what you did when you did It's not the date of the pictures
being taken They have the date at the top of each page Correct That's the download date And they're all that same uh July 29th 2024 except for the second one from 1995 which I did the other day because when in July it only gave me the
tax map box and didn't show the right So you're referring to page two of K3 Thank you very much Thank you So what we have proposed is to uh take lot four We have looked at the fact that there's a unique opportunity here and
that is is that they had adjacent to the site a narrow lot that had a non-conforming building up at the front that had parking that pulled in straight and required you to back out on to Main Street uh adjacent to the property and that it gave us an opportunity a unique
opportunity to do two things with that One was is to help with some of the amenities or the accessories that support the uh car wash More and more people are looking to use these for the vacuuming out of their cars We did at
one point look at maintaining the existing building and using it as an additional you know driveth through tunnel for the car wash However we felt that that was not as desirable and it was probably more desirable to take that building down It had non-conforming
sideyard setbacks it kind of uh it blocked off you know that view of that area and those lots and kind of closed things in a bit Uh the bowling alley next door the building's a little more set back give some room around it So we're looking to try to mirror that put
some more room around this and to allow for a one-way movement from the car wash site onto that area and to come down to Main Street for an eress only no ingress at that point The opportunity that that
gives us is besides being able to uh uh have those additional vacuums for in support of the car washes that are on lot five When we consolidate those lots we're able to our lot has a coverage
right now lot five where the car wash is now has a coverage of 90.8% And as you've seen that coverage has been there since at least 1995 Okay the coverage for the zone what's permitted in the zone is 80% So
what we look to do is to try to remove as much as possible from lot five because you have a lot of car movements that are on there without infringing on the movements on there And you can see I put those in green mainly to kind of highlight for you the areas that would
go from pavement to not pavement And then to be able to on lot four to underdevelop that lot So lot four the coverage that you see on that lot including the parking area where the vacuums are proposed is
60.6% where 80% is permitted So since it's owned by the same you know owned by the same owner and consolidating into the same lot we have an opportunity to also offset coverage you know from the one to the other and we end up with a
net result between the 90.8 and the 60.6 of 81.8 Um we have uh if in the instance where the applicant uh bought did not buy that lot or bought that lot under a separate
entity and developed it in a separate fashion your zone allows an 80% lot coverage So in the instance of where we're owning it and doing this kind of uh development we're able to underdevelop it and give a benefit to
try to improve storm water from that area reduce the coverage bring it more into conformance The other thing that it does is since we're taking the building down the front building that's on on block four has two non-conforming
sideyards you're required to have a sideyard of 10 and on the one side the sideyard setback So on the northern side of the existing building on that lot there's a sideyard setback of 2 ft and on the southern side of that particular
lot there's an existing sideyard setback of 1.1 ft So by removing the building we're putting it more into conformance with the bulk requirements for the zone because we're not perform um we're not proposing a building and
we're taking down the non-conforming building In addition to that as far as lot four it also doesn't meet the lot requirements of the zone Is that correct that's correct So the lock So on uh
exhibit A1 which is the rendering that's before you I did keep on there the zoning schedule so that you could you know see uh what happens with that And the zone requires a lot width of 100 ft The zone the frontage that's on lot four
is only 50 ft So by merging the two lots we've actually our lot has a width of 131 ft So by merging the two lots we're able to also uh eliminate that uh
discrepancy as well too That lot also uh lot four has a area that is only 0 to only a quarter of an acre The zone requires a 20,000 square foot lot and of
course a quarter of an acre is closer to 10,000 than it is 20,000 And so we have several nonconformities on lot four that once it's merged with lot five go away where if a separate entity developed it
or another entity bought it you know you would be they would be before you for those variances And from the standpoint of the variances that are requested um relative to the devariances um can you just explain to
the board what the primary use of the site is how that and how that relates to 1989 approvals So we have the primary use of the site is the car wash right the vacuum
um facilities that are provided are like a are a support to the car wash So we have the two buildings on lot five that uh the front building that has where you drive in the back and you know it's not self-s served and then you have the back
building that has the four bays that are self-s served in the 1989 approval only the front building um that you drove through uh was on the site and there was a a discussion in the resolution that
said that it had this car wash that was here that they felt that um the applicant had proven special reasons for why this should be expanded um which gave the approval for the building They went to through whatever compliance They
got the building approval They built the building but in that resolution it never clearly said "We're giving you a certificate of nonconformity for the use that's on that building." And it never clearly said or D1 So we have and I
think uh one of the photos that um we provided uh in the packet I believe correct um is actually a photo from 1968 that was part of a newspaper article that shows the front building as
existing there Uh and so we have a history of the car wash use being on the site itself prior to the 1989 and documentation showing that However we don't have a definitive statement in
that 1989 resolution even though they were before the zoning board So if it was considered a permitted use they wouldn't have been at the zoning board And you can uh assume that while they
were doing that and the fact that they referenced special that they met you know special reasons in the resolution that that's part of what the discussions were but we weren't there at that time And since it definitively didn't say
that we have tried to on the side of caution and have requested a D1 variance for that particular lot So so for the board I'm just going to quote uh what it said and in essence it approved the four bay self-service structure and self-service vacuums and in quote the
resolution says to be compatible with the car wash on the premises which will still operate in the same manner as the current operation So I just wanted to bring to your attention Libby those that that phrase will still operate in the same manner as the current operation
Correct What we're proposing today is is that still an accurate statement we're still looking to operate in the same manner that uh the front building as it was at that time and for the back building in the same manner as what the approval permitted And I would agree I
think that D1's variance is appropriate just to you know keep them covered legally going forward Um and since they are consolidating the lot it is technically a new lot that will have the on
it was clearly acknowledged that they're building the car wash So they they acknowledge it without saying it's a B1 So I would agree with that But as I I I would like to just add for the record of course the board has the resolution of
the zoning board from 1989 There's also a second resolution but with respect to the first one it does state in the whereas clause the second whereas clause a variantup saying would be an expansion
of a nonpermitted use So they acknowledge the reverse which is there was a building there and this is an expansion They considered an expansion So what our planner is saying is the
cleanest thing and but as the witness pointed out there was no certificate uh section 68 certificate which would have been a certificate uh stating that the nonconformity existed and is now approved in 1981 No reference at all to
that and the applicant has not sought that tonight the applicant is sought D1 or D2 or some combination of that and our board planner is indicating D1 It really helps not only the applicant and
they have to make their proof still yet on the record but it helps for the next board 20 years from now You won't be wor wondering what they did in 1968 and in 1989 because in our resolution assuming
approval we will state they are now D1 for the entirety of the consolidated lot and we'll go from there depending upon where we go in this hearing sign Thank you So thank you Thank you
Christie All right So Libby um why don't you run through what variances are needed i think we talked about the D1 and the D2 uh and how they relate to the project but let's talk about the C variances that are required So I have
shown in the Could you try again could you try that again okay I will try that again So up in the zoning schedule it shows uh for the accessory structure which would be the for bay in the back as much as
they went before the board they got the approval they went through the whole thing they spoke about variances they never listed what the variances were that were approved so it's been placed in the place that it was back in 195 we
have the aerial 1995 and on but you required to have a sideyard for accessory of 5T and it exists at 3.9 ft And then you're required to have a rear yard setback also of 5T and it has an
existing rear yard set back of 3.1 So we've highlighted those as the uh C variances Again you know if we wanted to be uh we're just trying to go on the side of caution make sure that moving
forward should the applicant receive an approval which we certainly hope to make then then there's no doubt and everything the records clean and we can move forward from there for everything that's on the site that's that's not conforming Yes And Mr If I might add so
this board will either make a determination that these C variances are subsumed within the grant of the use variance depending upon the approves or if they were to be separately needed the board would not approve these sideyard
and rear yard setback variances We would merely mention them spec with specificity in the draft in the U resolution So we would document it but we're not going to apply on whether when they were created they were legal or not
legal So that's how we handled them Well before the board if I may I I think part of our application is to request confirmation in the resolution if there was an approval Yeah For these specific variants because as uh Libby just indicated
1989 it was a little loose the resolution Yeah we think based upon what we see all of the approvals there there's also actually construction records um in the construction department that that deal with um these approvals existing there there are tax
records in the tax department that show the buildings on the site They're all there We're assuming that's what was approved But because there's nothing in record we do need to have all of these things approved on record so that there's an identity moving forward If
there's a fire what happens with the fire you know there are things that we have to deal with moving forward So I think retroactively we need to make sure these approvals if there is an approval uh does identify what what the relief is Would that meet your request if it's
handled as just a pre-existing condition in the resolution and not necessarily as a variance well I I so I I don't think I can say that this is a pre-existing condition because the difference is it came before the board of adjustment of the burough There's a big distinction
there that has protection moving forward um on the property Whereas if this was a pre-existing non-conforming use that was destroyed we wouldn't have the same protections So that's why I'm saying we we believed with the with the history of what we're showing with aerials that
this is what was approved The resolution was lacking as to what they approved We assume So you're requesting the variance You'd like us to vote we would like you to vote on the variance based upon the existing conditions Yes Perfect Okay And we have highlighted those in the zoning
schedule with the little asterric You know that they're existing and they're we're not changing them It's the same thing that they're non-conforming in their position So we have highlighted that with the in I had indicated to you that in the existing condition on lock
five we had the additional variances of the additional nonconformity of a coverage of 90.8% We are looking to uh take what we can off of that site Like I said I've highlighted it in green in an effort to try to draw your attention where we're
looking to kind of take those those existing asphalt areas out because we felt that we could narrow a couple of those drives or redirect or or channel things a little bit but to balance it with the coverage that's on lot four So we do have this existing condition of
90.8 on that on that lot So when we looked to try to balance it with the improvements on lot four we proposed on lot four coverage of 66.6% with everything that was shown there The uh the asphalt thrive the uh
porest p uh asphalt excuse me porous concrete underneath the vacuum areas the area of the proposed central back pad All of those things have been added and comes to 66.6% Did you get no credit for the force i
added it in They didn't take any No you're talking about lot 466 right yes So I was just talking about the So we're not talking about the whole lot Mr No I understand I understand No I know you that you don't and and please know that the the No it's
fine I just Are you sure yeah The towns I come from count everything is coverage It doesn't matter if it's stolen It doesn't matter what it is So I'm used to that So I and I actually on your exhibit that you have of A1 I left the coverage calculations on there as well so you
could see it Uh I know it's little and it's on a 1 by7 but I know the big sheets are a little hard for us to all kind of work with in tighter quarters So you'll see that um this was uploaded right the the one we
sure it might not correspond with the exhibits that we have Right It's the color Oops The bottom right Bottom right The little hourglass sign The plus sign There you go Just try to make it the
whole page Yeah Yeah Close out that we can move it down because the top isn't go Thank you Do you want it bigger yep I can see it over here [Music]
My issue is distance So that's not as good So on that lot we've looked to balance the two coverages We felt that it was our responsibility to tell you the truth to really do that you know and to not just say hey your ordinance allows 80%
so we're going to put 80% on law four as well so I have 66.6 and you can see I included the course forest drive we do have up at the top that the balance of all the surfaces in is 81.8%
So we looked to try to get it down uh as much as we could I think out of the hill lot area lot area of 41,000 square ft I think we're over about 700 and change
with with the uh from the 80% Bringing that down like I said from the 9.8 on the one and not having 80% on lot four if someone else own the lot if you had the pores counted the pores
concrete as impermeable But there's two ways to look at coverage right one is for storm alert And so some will say well it's all about impervious coverages and then you argue over these these surfaces right and the other is intensity of use on the site So when
you're looking at it from an intensity of use on the site standpoint you have to add it in So I've added that in from a storm water uh standpoint If I exclude the porest concrete areas then effect and because there are more porous than the grass areas would be then
effectively it comes down from both sites to 74.4 but we asked for the variance We have not looked to exclude that and so we fully will disclose those two two things and can you just describe how this porest pavement system works
and your experience with it yes So I have shown porous concrete specifically Uh I have used several of these for quite some time My first introduction to it was probably 20 years ago when someone came before them in
Homeell for to use it in their driveway right and Homedale was like "Oh my goodness no way." you know um and then uh over the years you know it's it's cropped up and in more recent time especially since 2021 the D had put it
into its regulations prior to that it became much more a part of their uh uh assessment in when they had their changes in 2021 2023 definitely includes it as well They encourage for you to use
sinks that are going to use recharge you know to put put it back into the ground And uh in doing that they also uh have identified them as a BMP which would be they use that as a general term out of their best management practices but
they'll tend to call a a surface that works on managing storm water you know a BMP just because it comes out of their manual They always make it sound so fancy And then uh but they it they've actually assigned it for providing water quality So when the water goes through
these it helps to filter I don't use porous asphalt for two reasons It's the least permeable of them all Um I have had in the past where I've had clients that I've helped um with getting uh
permissions um from D freehold soil and and actually training engineers throughout the state for use of a specific storm water management technology that was brought on And during the course of that I was working with Ruckers and soil conservation in
doing research and testing You know that particular one um and as you hear I do instructor work for Ruckers Uh during over the course of those um I was speaking with them because Ruckers has
an association with the EPA a site in Edison that's been there for quite some time I want to say 15 years if not more And in there when this started to become more of a a thing for lack of a better term they had created this whole site
with all these different and they had grass pavers as would be considered grass asphalt concrete permeable pavers They've built out all the parking spaces that are there And within them they have put all kinds of monitoring devices so
that they can see how they're operating uh in what kind of rain in what stage of maintenance you know how hard it is So they've had a very extensive review of all this and have assigned certain uh permeabilities to it And in the course
of my work with Ruckers they had you know um and because it was coming up in the towns that I was representing um they were reviewing with me all of this And I've used it on several of my sites And some of the towns that I actually go to require that you put them in your
driveways like Rumson if you're over a certain amount of percentage of or within 70% of the permitted coverage then they want you to put this into your driveways Okay they specifically say it I don't just the question Mucation this porous concrete does is it require
maintenance and does it what's is we'll get to that Mr M Yeah we'll get to that I'm get I'm getting there quickly I know I I tend to be wordy I apologize So in the process of all that um the asphalt had the least
permeability Uh if you're looking at like a uh a very very permeable soil you might get like a high permeable So they don't let you count anything over 20 in hour The porest asphalt had 50 in per hour which sounds wonderful right but
what happens when asphalt looks terrible what is someone going to do they're going to go and they're going to seal it Well and then that kind of eliminates the whole thing So I'm like I don't even want to deal with someone being tempted Okay The next permeable was actually the
permeable pers I've used those in Rumson quite frequently because they have that paper look and they like to have the paper look and those actually had a permeability of a th000 in per hour So the the restriction in that instance was
more the soil underneath The porest concrete was actually the most porous with 2,000 in per hour Now again the limiting is going to be you know the soils and what you have below There's a whole ser a whole uh section and that's
actually a detail which is in your set that it's not just the concrete that's on top You have a whole series of stone layers and stone storage that goes below So the purpose is to have the water the concrete itself looks like rice krispie
treats for a visual Okay It has that kind of gapping in it you know and so it's not going to have that smooth finish that a normal concrete would have It's going to look like Rice Krispie treats and they'll they'll show you like if you were to Google it there's this
whole video on there of them having a fire hose and they're standing on top of it and the guy's got on his nice you know dress shoes and he's going "Look my shoes don't even get wet." You know there's no splash But um I'm I'm more to say to you that yes these all require
maintenance All storm water systems require maintenance in order to operate correctly The D is looking for us to recharge water back into the ground They're looking for us to deal with how do we maintain the systems themselves
and part of the hardest thing when I was working on the um the storm water technology treatment technology was uh finding out how difficult like the initial upfront cost was not the problem The cost of maintenance was the problem
And in these instances the maintenance associated with these is basically vacuuming the system Okay The surface The surface So and what's right next to the system here and what are we proposing putting there
for the car hold on It's a little different Okay And and if I could and I don't want to interrupt you because everything she said is correct Um from where I stand and how I would advise you we don't want forest payment because it's not going to it's not in our property We don't know
how it'll be kept and maintained I don't recommend that we do it I don't I don't mind it being there And in this application I don't think it's critical because they've already done so much to help out with that issue and the fact that they're doing that in addition is
helpful But in the future and going forward I just want you to know there's a lot of shortcomings I guess my original question was kind of circle around to was the fact that this is a vacuum state It's really not pertinent It's not so important to the
actual application but this is a vacuuming area Cars are dirty There's a lot there's a lot more probably dirt load or sediment load or dust load being added to these uh porous papers Question about the maintenance because I can see those over time losing their
effectiveness Maybe we all know what the window is I just curious about multiple Yes And that's the other reason for using the concrete over all of them because it has such a ity that even if you cut it into 10% of it and you have
an underllayment anyways for drained and it drains through You don't use sand or salt on them because what happens in the winter time you plow an area right sun comes out you got your driveway sun comes out it all melts right you're like "Oh thank God." And then the worry that
night is that it's going to freeze right what happens when the sun comes out it goes down into the concrete and goes down into the stone so it doesn't freeze So you don't use and you don't use salt on that particular aspect Um they are required to the D understands that
maintenance is a big issue Okay There's actually four aspects to it from a con from a construction standpoint Making sure the soils underneath it are not compacted right because so such the point that it's not even going to go
into the soils right you have so you have that construction element of it You have then uh the maintenance element of it and we have to provide and with all storm water systems you have to provide the owner of the property with a
homeowner with a operation and maintenance manual that outlines the times they have to do it the requirements they have to do it and part of that study that happened in Edison was how bad does this get what is the problem that happens you know when you don't when you have a delay of
maintenance for two years and it was still operating ating very well They even had an instance where up in uh one of the parks next to Bound Brook when they had Bound Brook you know Bound Brook overflows quite a bit they actually had the porest concrete in
their walkways that were in there because they were looking to be you know eco-friendly And when it would overflow there'd be all this debris that would be on top of it they would come out they would clean it off they would recharge it vacuum it up and then it would work
as as desired Now there's always that concern that they're going to do nothing So what happens if they do nothing the way that this is designed is and it was noted in Mr FA's letter that in that back corner um I want to say it's kind
of like where there's an angled an angled uh curb meets the curb along the sideline that last parking space the corner and that last parking space away from Main Street That's like a low point Now the low point is because usually
with these pavements you do it pretty flat because you want it to go in You don't want it steep because then it rolls over the top of it and doesn't go in right So you want it pretty flat That happens to be a low point So if for some reason at this point that it fails it's
impacting us It's not impacting the neighbor to the back Sometimes these systems fail and all of a sudden it rolls down and it's flooding out you know the neighbors In this instance our whole back from the front of the building that exists on there because
the back the building that exists all drains from front of that building all back to the railroad tracks So we have forced a low point there where the differences between the proposed asphalt drive and the forest concrete it's about a difference of an
inch So you're going to gather about an inch of water in that location and you have a visual sign that something's not right That impact to the homeowner is a visual sign that something's not right When they're underground you don't have unless you're
looking for it you're not going to know that you have a visual sign And you know like I said they're required to do at least one year Every year they're supposed to go through and back out Um just one question Sorry Would the I think uh the board engineer recommended
uh we not use the pvious um pavement on this application Would the applicant be amendable to just using regular Well before you do I have no problem using it I just don't feel the credit should be given for We're not asking for credit
Well so No no We're not ask for a credit We're just She's just describing how it works And that's fine But I think it's best that we keep this I have a lot of questions here Yeah So yeah So so one so my question since my question is you're you talked about the maintenance uh and
operations manual and many boards are isn't there a new requirement that it be recorded so that was the next thing I was going to say So thank you for for being my wig lady there Right So next is and that and that puts the obligation
solely on the property owner whether it's your client or future property owner that maintenance animal which will be reviewed by our engineer correct and then it gets recorded correct will run with the land and will be a requirement
that they meet and if they don't meet the maintenance the the the uh the filing of that I think allows the town to step in and charge the applicant if the the maintenance or repair needs to
be done Sure I mean the adverse impacts would be on the owner's property So you know it would you know but apparently visually the code office could see that it's not operating The homeowner the property owner can see it's not operating Yeah And and the code
office should get a copy of the manual also so they don't have to go through Yeah I mean so so that recorded document would normally be a condition of your resolution It would get recorded and a copy of it would be provided as part of the the uh application packet
And it's actually kind of I purposely uh graded it that way If there's concern about too much developing in that area I can always put a little depressed curve there that's got a lip so that it's going to retain a certain amount You know if there's concern of a hundredyear storm or something of that nature I have
no problem working with Minister Freda about that Uh freehold soil he's requested pre and post calculations Freehold soil has also requested that I give them those for the two and 10ear storm but that I also give them the uh analysis for failure and I'm more than
happy to share that with your board engineer as well Thank you Thank you So that's enough Yes And all and then you can go out and look at and watch it yourself and and just see out of curiosity because you'll drive by and you'll go "Oh it rained last night Let's
see if there's water in there." All right Are there any other variances that you have not covered at this time no Out of the whole uh whole application I've noted the ones that we've removed and I've noticed the existing conditions that we've requested and the only
proposed one that we have that includes the porest concrete is a lock cover variants of 81.8 In addition I just wanted to point out one other thing as far as the resolution from 1989 is concerned I believe There is reference in there of eight vacuums
Is that correct correct Lot five Correct And what we're proposing will have only eight vacuums within lot five Is that accurate that's accurate So it's continuing exactly as it was on block five Yeah Full disclosure there's more than there's 10 or 11 there now but but
um there's 10 or 11 Yeah they're running 11 So we're going to go back because that's what was approved So can you tell us which ones you'll be taking away yeah there there actually are vacuums down here um in the entryway There's one right next to the building on the on the
um at the entryway and there are two on the right side that are going to be removed and that's the area where you're going to be providing green area and making that area in purpose So the one by the building is already removed Yes Oh
right on the left when you pull in And I will uh indicate to you that on sheet two of the set of plans it has indicated TBR which means to be removed How many of those are being removed i show uh three of them being three in that front being removed which brings you down to
eight Oh okay address into No there's there's um some curbing and stuff that's lo noted as TBR but uh against the building as you drive in there's one and against the property
line as you drive in there's two So no more vacuums as you drive in Correct We're looking to just make that so that it's clean and you need that to get to the back So you can get to the back We're hoping that in doing this as well
we can help to expedite movement of uh through there so that people that are looking to just vacuum are going to come on to the site and be able to have a bypass lane and go to either the vacuums that exist on the site or you'll see that on lot four that up at the where
you enter at the back of the chrome and carpeting line We show a proposed gate and he has already like a um car wash membership you know that you pay so much and you have unlimited and and so that gate actually let you you know just
raises and lets you in Since you brought this up are these are these going to be run by tokens or they going to be free with the car wash they have a reader on your they have a reader on your these are only accessible to the car wash members correct the the ones on lock four Yes for the new ones only for the
me car wash Correct Correct And those only operate are proposed to only operate when the car wash is open So the front car wash has hours that are 8:00 a.m to 6 except during clement weather So that day they will be closed off
during clement weather right subject to subject to the weather But if we had all sunny days then it would be 8:00 a.m to 6 The selfs serve in the back is 24hour The uh vacuums that exist on lot
five the remaining eight vacuums that will be on lot five are also 24hour But the ones in lock four are only available during the times that the car wash is the automated car wash is also So the
the eight that will remain right now I I can see why you're moving those two on the right hand side and then there's a third one there But those vacuums that the eight that remind you will still be free which is why there's no way to go in and pay for them and
then if you want to go to the right to lot four those are the pay ones No the ones on lot four are the ones that are the membership ones and then the owner can talk to you about the operation of everything that's on lot five Okay Okay I'm just trying to figure out how the you know the flow but you can go to that
Yeah So I did there's there's and I know it's very light on there but you can see coming across you see the notch that sticks out You come in the building's smooth along the side then there's like a notch that sticks out a gray notch that we've got Right before that is a
square and then you'll see that there's like dash lines that go over the first two Those are signs that go over top Those are ones for going to the pay So the they don't extend the aisle all the way to the right The aisle all the way
to the right is a bypass lane that lets you go to either the vacuums on four or the vacuums that are on lot five if you're not going to go through the automated system I got you Okay So that whole thing is going to become on the right hand side It will become a a pass through which is why you're removing
those two on the right hand side The third one down there will stay Um and then yeah then I had questions about the business model but what will happen to the the back So and I have also removed those ones on the right hand side as you come in because I wanted to we talked
about I spoke with him about what can we remove from block five to try to assist us in the goal of getting it And so those areas that are in green there were areas that we felt could go And obviously if I put that green area there you couldn't get close enough to use
those vacuums anyway Mer you you referenced the signage at the kiosks Is that going to change or is is there any exhibits for us to review in terms of signs we're not proposing to change any signs on our property
And there's no signs proposed for lot four So no new signage just just existing signage Correct No new signage Just making sure I remember correct a lot of details Now one of the things that I wanted to
offer to you as well is when we have these vacuums on lot four there's two ways that they can be done They can be done as they're done on Mach 5 right now with individual vacuum units you know that have a full uh system and automation You know all the mechanicals
are at each of those locations those tend to be a little louder And so we're looking to And then you have to go around you have to clean out each one So what we've done on lot four is you can see in the back of the lot that box
that's there right near where you enter is a central back system And so there's piping that goes from that uh underground to each of these other And so then the the we've looked to try to consolidate
the noisier element of that system to the back of that property and closer to the railroad tracks So the front of the central uh that equipment pad is 76 ft from our property line So then you have like another whatever it is 7 ft to the
street So and then you have a rideway then you have two uh you know commercial buildings that are fairly large across the street and then residential units So we've looked to try to make sure that we put anything that had opportunity to
create any noise to the back and then at each of these arms it just is really just the sucking sound It's like a whole house vacuum right for trying to just give a a uh and I believe in the packet
that you were provided with the submission there was a a view of that's that's giving you a sense of what the appearance of what the um the refuge container is that enclosed
the refuge container at this time is not okay Um I guess I mean I have a circulation question based on I hold that right I you can see if I can answer it I'm just wondering you know to make that
right hand turn in there It looks like the the opening is kind of in the container area Um as you as you enter lot four the area on the left of that entrance seems to be uh into the uh
refuge Can you go to the last page of the sheet if you of the set of plans if you don't mind sure I provided you a circulation plan at the end at the very end so that you could see how vehicles because we're looking to and since it's
a container it can get pushed back further It's just where it was the day they did the survey And if there's a desire for you to have us put it in some kind of storage we certainly can do that I would recommend um a masonry block
what block with the dates in the front Yes So that can get moved back further And if you look at sheet 10 of the set of plans that the movement into that area is actually uh more along the radius
that's away from there Um and I mainly had put that other one there I could almost have it come straight because it's not it's not a uh significant movement I guess you know I'm like a balance person and it looked like you
wanted one side to match the other but it doesn't have to I know there's a traffic engineer here but if you could possibly just talk about um since we're looking at the circulation plan or defer to him how someone would like go through
the site would they get their car washed and then have to come out and go back in to go to the vacuums or how did that You know I think that's probably a better question for my client because he's there Okay You know and he he can
explain what happened I don't think there's any I think we all have that question I see a I see a main street U-turn No no They're going to turn on their property before There's a lot of room All right Tell me that's the plan All right Let's see
not they're not going to go on Main Street They can't build We looked to We looked to when we took some of the green out in front of the building we looked to make sure that we left We didn't you know that we didn't take it all the way to the front that forced any like movement in there We're having to work
with in a sense an existing site that had an existing movement in it It's not feasible to reverse the movement was my first like okay you go through the vacuums and then you finish the garage like the vacuum are just well you
can flip the vacuum but you still can't make it doesn't work for exit is there enough room to park car on four across from the base so right now that you have along that whole property line you have that whole
line of trees with their root systems So we actually look to try to I have an 18 foot wide drive there for um you know say one way purposes you try to have it so that if there's a breakdown a
car can get by And I've also looked to try to pull that away from there so as to not impact the plantings that are on that particular side I did look at if I flip-flopped it and I put the parking on the northern side or the spaces on the
northern side because we did look at what if we change that movement and it actually created uh a very tight movement and a tight turn to get onto the get onto the site besides the fact that it had to go right up to the property line and would significantly
impact those trees Okay I don't understand your answer because I was I'm just thinking about people trying to get through the gate but all the bays full and then nobody who's going through the other vacuums can get through and make I think
we should let the traffic engineer give us all sorry that was so one of the things we also ahead was getting ready one of the other things that we look to try to achieve is that we know that have
an access on to a DOT roadway The existing site has a full depressed curve across the whole front of the site The whole front of the site was the parking and you pull into that site if it remained in a even the building remained
there and was used for permitted use You pull into that site you have to back out on main street We felt that that was not desirable We also felt that if we had a one-way movement onto here that we would be able to provide more separation as
much as possible to the property lines that exists in between any of the existing drives There's drive for the bowling alley is pretty much at the edge of where their parking spaces end That's where their depressed curve starts So
we're trying to maximize as much as possible the uh separation between the property lines We are required by DOT to have a 12T separation from the property line to our drive We have 12 1/2 ft from
the common property line to lot three where Boying is and our lot four So we have achieved uh that aspect of the DOT access permit and if approved would obviously be seeking that approval which
would be provided to you as part of the perfection of any approval grant and Libby that's why there's a little there's a little bend in the driveway Yeah that's why it's got a crook so it doesn't come straight in have pull away from you Can we just go backwards one
step i'm not clearance on on this drawing Here's our Here's our PA sidewalk Here's Main Street Mhm Okay I'm coming in I'm going to go either make a choice Wash my car or go to the to the vacuums
Go to the vacuums I come out Now I won't wash my car I have to enter Main Street to come back into the entrance way So I'm going to get a loop I want to cross Main Street to come out of the vacuums And if I in if I go into the car
wash first I come out And yes here I could probably make a swing And knowing most how people most people drive in New Jersey they're going to go across the sidewalk somewhat and turn around come back up and in to use the free vacuums So the I'm just curious about this right
here How much maybe that's more traffic question but how you have people pulling out from the van onto Main Street and then going into the car wash So I believe that the owner can best tell you how his clients use the facility right
now We live we live here right use that facility for 30 years Uh I guess if I'm just seeing So do you vacuum first and then drive all the way around and go into the cars i vacuum first on the two the ones you're taking out That's the ones you take out So I'm just saying I you take those out and then I'll swing
over to the pay before you put the gantry or the gates Um these go right into the line But I regardless you still have to pull onto Main Street to go back into the car wash and do that first So that So if if I
could just throw in again we should kind of leave it to the traffic engineer Yeah But to turn from the the new driveway coming out into the old parking lot to get in to go for you is not is not a difficult situation
So I don't I'll say to people in this room people outside this room driving Well but our worry is more when they come out of the car wash Yeah Then what do they do if they want to vacuum their car that's that's the thing we need to get Then they have they're going to make
but then they can make the turn across their property and into the queue unless there's a line into the street where you going to get in line We need them to put that on the record and explain and everything else We're getting ahead of we got to get to the right witness because that's also a movement that has
opportunity to happen now So that's why because there's vacuums are on the site right now Not just these new ones There's already vacuums on the site right now and there's already the car wash that's there right now So that kind of flow and with the ones that are there
up at the front they actually block vehicles once they get onto the site So it's why you first back in the second makes kind of the most sense the way it is now Well and I leave that to my colleague I'm not the car wash expert No I'm a customer
Mbury um in terms of the uh curb cuts here you're not proposing to change anything on that 31 foot apron I don't propose to change anything now Have you looked at the condition of that right now yeah we need
to discuss that because the uh the pavers coming out of the car wash are in very bad shape Yeah So if there's a repair we we're obviously going to we'd be happy to do whatever we have to do to repair that I'm assuming that it should be done in a fashion that's going to
accept the car load and probably they weren't in there in a way to accept the car lo but I don't think we are looking to change the configuration of depress curve or anything like that so so one of the things that we're trying to do and as new applications come along we're
trying to make all the aprons concrete makes sense right so one of the things if approved we've been asked and condition to be that for the driveways coming out new driveway the one coming the car wash
possibly the one coming out from around the other side of the building that those aprons be done in I just had my client not so there's no objection And I will offer to you that on page six
of the plans we've differentiated a paper detail for sidewalk and a paper detail for driveways where the paper detail for driveways has to concrete just for that exact That's good See when they redid perfect curve um they did the
sidewalk area in concrete also so the pedestrians knew oh I'm in a driveway here That's what we're talking about So concrete up from the curb line up to the property line Yes So no pers Now there's going to be gaps where the
pavers are going to remain Um I've also looked on the street to see if we could pick up any street parking It's going to be very difficult because it's it's so choppy through there I don't know what we could do to get an extra spot And even if we did it's in a part of town
where I don't know that anyone really parks down there I mean my my concern is really and maybe it's Mr Ray is that you know a 131 ft curb cut leads people to go everywhere It does We could organize
that in some way through this process I think and I think the concrete aprons would help to do that It signifies the driver where to go It also signifies the pedestrian or the bicyclist or whatever that this car is introduced or introduce
curves to truly delineate So the curves um we're I would say yes we should do that However we're not going to be able to get any parking as a result of we don't care about safety more safer pedestrian safety because now it's
a wider more useful area As time goes forward we're getting more residents on the other side of tracks now We're going to be walking over to Bradley Beach with the new apartments going in So the pedestrian traffic on Main Street anticipated
Well I think uh I'm happy to work with Mr Freda on the configuration of those considering that we have two tunnels coming out We have the drive on one and we have the draw in So uh but I'm happy to work with him on that configuration And just one question I've been meaning
to ask this The second tunnel is it still used my client can uh Okay But it is Okay The second Okay No that's fine If not we Yeah If not then you'd be able
to separate that out I just have a question for purposes of the resolution So I I heard um that you're going to make changes but I I don't know if we need to have revised plans So we write in the resolution work with the the
board engineer to his satisfaction in making the concrete the uh where we're putting pavers uh maybe putting curbs etc But is any of that going to So that's how I would propose writing the resolution It should be proposed to work
with them So that so what about your uh state highway approval do you need any approval for lot five or just for lot 40 mr Ray will discuss it Okay He doesn't Is any of what we just said going to
change uh the states that would be a Mr Ray question Okay And in general the state pretty much looks curb to curve Yeah And they pretty much throw everything on either the county or the missing Okay The curve back to Okay So
our conditions would be okay with the state Okay John would know better But okay And I think the revised plans could be submitted as a condition of resolution Right Right Resolution compliance
M if we could if we could get some clarity on uh and I'm not speaking for the board I'm speaking for myself a clarity on the previous pavement um is is that the existing
uh lot coverage for the next zone south of here the GBW zone is 90% So I don't have any issue with 81.8 almost adjoining that PBW zone Um
if you wanted to do the we would have no issue with that either Obviously it would be a much more economical uh for them I would just have to work out with your engineer you know how if what he would like us to do There's no
drainage in the area for us to pipe to So that's always fun But but we would have no issue um subject to working out what I would need to work out with Mr Freda Um we are just trying to be as
uh environmentally sensitive as possible You are sustainably uh sustainability bronze level sustain you know they've gone above and beyond with the storm water on the application So thank
you just again So assuming we get assuming we get to this So assuming we get to an approval what the chair is saying sounds to me like you're going to work with our board
engineer to figure out that the pvious pavement you were previously discussed and is on the plant is going to be changed to ashall And is that going to change your imperous coverage calculation it will not change my
calculation because we included that's okay So I'll put that as a work with Jerry We're happy to work with Mr So I don't believe there's anything else that you need to add from an engineering
standpoint Uh the only thing that I wanted to just add was in going through uh Mr for newsletter We have no problem with uh addressing the conditions that we have and some of these comments would be amended for our discussions that we just
had Um I did show a line of plantings We do have a line of trees that's right over there So we had try showed a line of plantings underneath I showed Bay They would like me to possibly change that and that would be also one thing
that I would ask to just work with Mr Freda on you know we are can have something that was native to New Jersey salt tolerant It does go deciduous in the winter as do the trees but we also go dormant in the winter as well too
most of the time So so um but I that would be I wanted to just in full disclosure say that that's one item that would be in here that I would look to work for with him on too for a selection It would have to be something that would be under able to be underneath those
trees Luckily it's facing the south side so they're on the south side of those trees I might be able to use warl or something of that nature you know along that area and we're we're happy to do that And if we could just go through Mr F's
letter there's a few things um that covered specifically uh referencing page 306 starting with uh letter C We'll come back to the planning testimony with Libby at the end Uh but uh starting with letter C uh you are in agreement and I think you testified that by uh
consolidating these lots you remove an existing non-conformity for lot size for lot four Correct In addition by consolidating the lots um you are removing an existing nonconformity to the lot width for lot four and C2
Correct Correct uh C3 by consolidating the lots the existing power wash will have a new north side setback of 99.4 ft whereas I guess you indicated the existing building on lot four is not conforming it's at 2 ft and we'll make it a
conforming condition on both sides correct um number four the existing lot coverage for not uh lot five is 90.8 for uh the proposed consolidated lot we're at 81.8 I think we've discussed that at
exhaustive length Um number five um Mr Freda's letter indicates by consolidating a lot of irons would be required for the sideyard setback What's your position on uh number five as it relates to the accessory structure um I want to just indicate I think it
says 4 and a half Mr Freda I think the corner that's a little closer to main streets at 3.9 So I just wanted to make sure that we had that Um you know the uh proposed the requirement for that is 5 ft that would
be a a C variance Um we have to you can see in the aerials what we're up against Um we are in the general location I think from the standpoint of that particular uh lot location set so far back from Main Street and what's on the
adjacent lot and the distance being 1.1 ft I think that that change is not impactful in a detrimental way And I think the testimony has also been that um that building's been there since at least 1995 It's existing um and while
for the new lot already there and no changes are proposed to it And I also wanted to point out in the 1989 resolution there was an approval for a four bay self-service car Exactly Correct In addition right and in addition number
six um sort of the same um issue the the rear yard setback Same issues Uh other than the fact it's a rear yard and um it is 3.1 correct it is 3.1 and in a similar fashion We're up against the railroad tracks there Uh the 3.1 the 1.9
ft is not going to create an impactful scenario to that railroad tracks that's there So I would say on balance that any detriment that may be there is not substantial enough to rise to the point of of not meeting negative criteria And in addition to that we're making an
assumption that's where the the location was approved in that 1989 resolution Correct Correct Um and lastly uh we're dealing with the size of the existing uh accessory structure being 29 square ft Again it's existing It appears from the
aerials been existing since at least 1995 Correct And that was the structure that was approved in 1989 The ordinance says that an accessory structure should be more than 120 ft We do exceed 120 square ft but we are um you know in accordance
with that prior approval And it's not clear whether that was grant or matter at that time And and it is clear though that it was a four bay car wash Correct It's clear that was a four bay car wash actually said that met the special reasons for the need for staff to provide an opportunity for uh the
residents to have self serve as well as automated Um and you're in agreement that this is not a major development True All right As far as section B uh drainage and drainage and grading you discussed
already We discussed that and I still have to do my pre-in posted only calculations for free soil I did not submit them yet to do them yet because I wanted to see what happened at this hearing So I'll be happy to work out with Mr Freda and to provide those Now
what freehold Sawyer looks for is they look to make sure that whatever I'm doing is creating a stable scenario uh with the asphalt It may be that um we may have to provide a little stone or something of that ma manner to dissipate any water that may come out of a
depressed curb Um so full disclosure but that uh for the most part that's what cold soil is looking at is to make sure that we don't create an erosive condition What number are you speaking about in the report page five section C Section C Thank you I'm sorry It's
actually B Okay In section C I'll probably have to put a depressed curve or I can regrade that I can just tip it up and yeah whatever works Yes Yeah we'll work that again
That condition noted in C may change but I'm happy to work with Mr Freda on that item I'm sure that we can come to a conference And you'd have no objection in section D to address the typographic absolutely not I'm an engineer not an
English major So I could say oh I put them there to see if he found it What about lighting and landscaping so in lighting we were proposing uh it's not as clear on the uh it on the lighting is
shown on sheet five of the set of plans We're proposing to have the lighting on the um the poles themselves between that's why there's gaps shown between the plantings next to lot three in order
to provide the light poles It has it has uh a proposed downward directed LED lights that have a solid type uh to be dark sky compliant LED
allows us to really I don't know what this could it be the paper on that No I this comes and goes It does Random because we didn't have it the entire hour and a half that we've been speaking
Oh you want me to repeat everything no From the top So so the lighting over on that side the LED gives us a lot of flexibility too as to being able to provide good cut offs at the property lines It's not always reflective in the that's there I'm put a
note on there and um we'll put the shields as necessary And you can even with the LED lights you can even direct that has a series of bulbs that are in it and you can actually direct each individual bulb within them So uh you
know we're looking to provide uh modern lighting on there's a notice about there's us not about spillage onto the other properties light spillage Yes Is it with the shield you're going to we can get the cut off We are also as as we indicated we have our plantings we're
putting there and there's trees on that side too and all that will also help to in infringe on lighting that would happen along those parking spaces Uh what does You know so we're not looking to light the parking spaces for them
unless they want us to but they haven't asked us to yet The hours of lighting because it is going to be open 24 hours for some sections of the car wash What is the lighting scenario so on
lock four that area turns off at the same time that the automated system turns off So that's 8 to six The gate will not let you in So we can if you want us to I would suggest that if you're going to have people walking
around from one side of the tracks to the other side of the tracks I don't know where they cut through It wouldn't hurt to have just some kind of security lighting even if it's minimal Uh you have um parking that's up against that
And I would suggest you probably don't want to create dark zones for people to be able to come over from the bowling alley and know railroad property anyways That's a big area I mean we're happy to leave the lights
on but we don't we don't need it for our operation but we're happy to do that for security Security wise I I feel that I'm not speaking to the board but myself and especially in that with the railroad track and and also for the safety of the business owner So we can have him
confirm that when he comes up or deny that when he comes up but you can bring them down to intensity Yes they can come down in intensity That's part of the beauty of those lights as well We go to page six and six We talked
about the edge of plantings Um I'm happy to work with him on whatever chart We just want to make sure I had them so that they'd be 6 to 8 ft tall because they would tuck in underneath the teeth And if there's a proposal for something different like I
said I could change it to Laurel I could change it to whatever And we don't necessarily have a problem with just want to just have the board hear a little bit about what was proposed And as far as general comments from your standpoint in your engineering testimony
no objection to any of those comments Correct Correct Um and I think you've talked about 6B which is the traffic movements and I'll discuss that further with Mr Correct And the other items in six I will discuss
I think that's the testimony for Libby for engineering site plan Thank you Any other questions from the board Mr Fred no Um I just wanted to I know we've talked to Mr Ray regarding this and the board I haven't spoken to
you either Uh but I think there's an opportunity to use concrete to show where you would drive and not drive to swing around the corner Um maybe we can discuss that with Mr like a visual a visual path almost had
one question before we let and I will be back for planning Yeah The the picture of the car wash and you said that this was a newspaper picture but we have no indication of the date of the
newspaper in what newspaper Not that I not that I dispute but there is something preprinted on the bottom of the picture and it says the Bradley car wash built in the early 1930s Photo taken June 29
1968 Did you put that statement there no And that photo is actually from might even be the wall so the the wall the owner can testify to because he provided that picture Okay So so that picture is located within the current business
right now No it's a I'm sorry It's a picture that he had Okay About that he can testify to that because that was supplied by Okay So I we're taking we're taking it on fake that 1968 was in the newspaper and that date We didn't
annotate that Yes Okay And we don't know who that statement is attributable to and whether it's accurate for both the 1930s date and the 1968 date but we think so Yes that's correct That's as far as you could go You don't know if it's actually accurate Correct I did
look at the aerials that the D had for 1930 I didn't bring them with me because obviously you know it's 1930 and they had little buildings on there But it did appear that there was a building of this shape and a building on the other site
in 1930 I couldn't testify as to the use Yeah Um but there appeared to be buildings located at that location Then that's why I can say if you would like that area I can provide it to you They're about a quart of an inch big No I just want wanted to to know the detail
on that Your testimony is fine Thank you I like the boarding ticket Uh well I think we have to open it to public Oh yeah Um at this time we'd like to open it to the public for questions only of
the engineer Um do I have any hands for questioning the engineer uh seeing none I'll close the public hearing John we should do Steve first Yeah Then we have some operations I do too Clearly
If you could just spell state and spell your name again Spell spell your first name Just want to wait for the record Thank you Thank you Can you understand you're on yes So uh Steve could you just describe the operations as it Let's
Let's take a step back When did you purchase the property august 2015 When you purchased the property the existing conditions vacuum locations as they are today were in the same location Correct um the changes that you have made um to
the site entrance way since 2015 have there been any changes to that entrance way area yes we installed two pay stations And with those pay stations you got approvals through the municipality correct other than that have you made any other significant changes to the property um and then so if you could
just explain to the board the operations of how people circulate through the property at this time Certainly So the garbage wall is come from Main Street they pay the pay station they go through the tunnel they exit the tunnel and go around the
building walking So 99% of people this way 1% of people walking first as Mr Mayor said Uh I'm not one person You're the one I have plenty of tokens But 99% of our
customers work at car and it's actually advisable to work at car first and then buy So and as far as the use of the site and and the self-service how does it operate timewise with the self service and those vacuums that are existing so during
summer hours uh until the daylight savings we are open from 8 to 6 Uh during winter hours we are open from 8 to time The self service car wash is open 24 hours 7 days a week
And you're not proposing any changes to that correct And what about those vacuums that are on site today they are free during our business hours on 8 to6 and they go to pay mode close
24 hours and and free you have to put you have to put a token we have a bottom okay or we provide tokens and then as as far as um Mr previous question the interior of the car wash building today
Can you just describe what's on the interior uh the long extension and then the other side with the second garage so uh there's an uh 80 tunnel for the major tunnel and on the left side uh is the
garage where we store all our equipment And what's in that garage side what kind of equipment um supportive equipment the chemicals the spot three system How large are
these this equipment in there the spot three tank is 2,000 gallon tank So it's kind of it's big It's large It takes up a pretty large area of that right um and as far as maintenance and things like that you need to have uh vehicles
get in and out of that to to assist No we don't we don't we don't do no cars don't go to the garage Okay Um so that has a um that does have a garage door Yes it does have garage Is it is it necessary to have a garage door on that
side we have a port You have what's the port well we uh we need to uh for our maintenance because there there are a lot of heavy things in the tunnel that we need to pick up for forklift Okay Um other than the the
forklift are there any other vehicles that are stored in there just for No Um as far as the the lighting hours you heard some testimony and questions about your lighting hours How does that work the operations with the lighting today
The lights are on all the time Okay the light around the building Around the building or on all the time What are you proposing for the new lighting on lot 4 uh I was thinking to keep them on during our normal business hours from 8 to 6
and then shut them down close but we can keep them on 24 hours for the safety purposes So for security security Yes Yes I'm fine with this Um and then as as far as coming in the two existing
vacuums are on the north side Uh the one that Mr Mayor uses Um how does that work when a car is parked there and using those vacuums as you know as far as sight coming in sometimes it creates problems actually for the for our
customers if there are two cars parked on the uh by those vacuums So um sometimes it creates issues with the flow with the car And and as far as the layout um there are two lanes that come into one lane Is that I'm sorry to go
into the two lanes from the base stations into one lane to the tunnel Right And then there's a bypass lane to the right All right To go to the self service or to the vacuums And you're you're proposing to keep that bypass Yes removing those vacuums so that that
bypass is free Yes Um as far as can you testify to hours of operation um I think sometimes you're also closed even on normal operation hours because of inclement weather Yes we close in the rain nowadays
Um have you had any issues with noise complaints or anything um how how these vacuums so the the the photos that you provided you prepared you provided those photos about the vacuums right yes They show some LED lighting
correct yes On top of Are you proposing to have that lighting on the vacuums yes I am You are yes Okay And and that's because At times it'll be dark when people are using right because it gets dark uh early around 4:00 So it helps
with Yes And those are what's the level of lighting of those just directly to the biking area Okay Um and and will they get shut off at any time we can keep them on or we can turn them off It's I mean so so you're going to be
operating this the proposed lot four portion And you're going to be only operating that from basically 8 to 6 Um so with those light those lights will be shut off when when the operations are finished Yes Okay And the gate won't allow people to get into that area Yes
Yeah Able to completely closed Yes Yes And if you can just describe your your business plan as far as those gates go particularly the entrance gate into that area So we currently offer an unlimited membership for our customers Uh it's
like a Netflix you can pay once a month right and you can use your services or something with it Uh so the new area we planning to use it for our unlimited customer So they'll have access by the uh there
is a tag on the windshield You put a tag on the windshield and there's a reader right that will open the gates The tag is read by the reader and the uh vehicle All right And how does that work with your operating hours relative to using
that gate it's only during our business normal business hours 86 Okay So so if you al also describe you already have a pay station area right how does that work in your operation same uh 86 So that's set up and man do you manually do
this do you by the computer we when we come in the morning we uh we open our area using the computer So it's computer operated pretty much Okay And is there any type of warning if someone is using it after hours if you if it's left on
it's not because we have to close the shape right before we go on we close everything So we shut the computer Okay And that'll shut down the gate as well Yes Yes Yes And and so what how does the other gate work the exit gate Well the exit gate is just that there is
a loop in front of the gate When the car goes over that loop the gate the gate opens up And and is that that's operating 24/7 that that will be shut down as well The gate will be closed The whole system will be shut down after it closed Okay
So vehicles won't be able to get in and out of outside of Ohio And as far as existing traffic movement can you just M Mr Ray is going to testify too but if you can just describe on the record what you have seen since you've been operating this since 2015
So uh as I explained before uh the car come from all the cars they come from Main Street to the base station Most of the bars most of the customers I'll change by 100% You're doing it wrong
Uh the customers pay the base station then they go to the tunnel uh they work their cars right and when they exit the building they go from the building to survive from their car And do you ever see anyone exit onto Main Street to come back into the site no There's no there's
no reason to go Have you had any issues with uh backing up and and holding process up no Um and then as far as your on-site vacuums have you had any issues with cars uh blocking traffic circulation through the property
this two in particular plan yes And what about the one right next to the building in the entryway area it hasn't been used for years Have you noticed any issues with the two vacuums that are on the rear of the property no There's sufficient
bypass between your rain tunnel entryway and the um circulation outside of that Correct And what about the vacuum is on the south side any have you had any issues with vehicle circulation there's sufficient space for the cars to
return to Now once once a vehicle comes through the rain tunnel uh gets washed goes back out to a vacuum where do how do they exit uh they exit from the main street I know No Where on the site do they exit from
do they exit back going through the building do they exit southside they can exit both either south or north side Do do they exit this is all entrance way This is all entrance No exit here No there's no exit No The building here Do
they they don't come back through the car wash no Right Or the exit from the south side The exit from the exit from the south side And then you're envisioning obviously the exit from the the new uh extension to be an exit only The exit only There's no there's no
entrance there Yes Then you'll comply with whatever D may require Yes As far as that Uh in addition Mr Freda asked a point of as far as putting in concrete uh aprons Do you have any issues with that to designate entrance ways and exit ways
not at all No issues Okay Do you have any issues if it's required to have any uh striping arrows or things like that do you have any of those now on site yes we do Yes So it shows entrance way exit way arrows Yes And you you'll maintain them correct
yes you update them every two or three years Yes So overall in what's being proposed do you envision really any change to the lap five site at this point no No Only improvement in the
entrance That's that's the only change Thank you I think that answers most of the questions One question hasn't been talked about entrance into the new area and the fact that it's members only How you going to sign that i see nothing
here referencing any signage for people who don't belong to the club How you going to stop people trying because they're going to see empty bays and not want to use it Uh have you seen our um arms yes See the signage on those arm
that says join our unlimited plot Yep So we're just going to put the same sign on the uh the arm of the member or something Hopefully that's enough We can Yeah Yeah It's going to be overwhelm It's it's
education to that point It's educating the the membership I mean I'm not sure if Mr Mayor's going to join So no Uh but if the members understand that they're washing the car first I don't know if you can put that in the literature I mean that should be the way
it should happen But that's how it is Don't worry about them Oh I realize that now So it's if it's members only then they're they're going to know what to do I mean basically that's Oh yeah you know of course we have people at the base
stations all the time So we have employees at the base stations all the time explaining to customer if they have questions or helping them the only kiosk I've ever gone to that are man that work Um I I I had a question about the garage when we go over these curb
cuts and things So you have a high low in the garage and do you need the curb cut in front of the garage portion in order to um facilitate your business
no Okay Um yeah I mean that's an engineering question but I mean it's 12 Okay Um the uh so I got that and then are you I know we have the gate uh at the exit
to the Newport part on lot four but um again I don't want to force you to leave the lights on I'm just concerned pedestrians going in there I mean obviously cars can't I personally would I would recommend I don't think you want
um the lighting at its full level 24 hours a day Um but I do think potentially you know some some lesser security lighting would be um a good thing and that would just
be something um that the applicant could work out with uh the engineer during resolution component Okay I'll leave it up to you Can I ask Can I ask how many members do you have in this unlimited car wash how many are
there that warrant that we're doing all this so how many members are in this unlimited club um normal people don't want to this information but is it a thousand is it 10,000 like this is a lot No it's not 10,000 How about ask the question
different what percentage of customers want okay Mr Mayor on that one percentage what's the percentage 10% to 90% of people entice people to join Yeah So it
goes up and it's also may not be representative of the revenue but it may not Yeah But I I do have a question about the membership Um because you talked about the gate is going to be be
mechanically unable to be lifted after 6 p.m No they would post after 6 p.m Right Right And so the their reader card isn't going to work when you sell the memberships Do you let them know you're
using the pay the um these vacuums they will not be available at 2:00 in the morning Absolutely Okay So they know that it's part of the membership that they sign up for when they do only during all business hours Yes Okay Mr
So the gate to go into the new vacuum area closes at 6 but the gate to exit can't close at 6 because the assumption is it would take someone how long to to vacuum their car So does that mean you're going to
close the gate to enter before 6 and give someone a half an hour to do it both gates can clo close close down contemporaneously or you can go to the entrance gate for the unlimited vacuum area and then you can get it at 6:45 Or you can Yes you can Yes you can Okay You
know you can you can the the the vacuum system will be shut down at 6:00 No matter what they won't be Oh so you can't even go in at 6 So basically you have to enter at 5:55 right but the you're going to get 5 minutes back Yes Okay Okay So okay But then at
6:00 well if you're still in that area but does the exit gate is that just car let you exit you don't have to have the No No No And then will the vacuums
on property five stay the kind of I assume they're staying the kind of vacuums that they are And will they stay free from 8 to 6 or 8 to 5 are you going to start charging for that no they are completely free I have a lot of tokens for I didn't know if I needed to get in
there now or so so the existing items will still be accepted to so you can still use the existing vitamins 24 hours Okay Okay Um and then
you said people exit the car wash I have to be honest with you I have never done both at the same time because once I go through the car wash I'm like I'm out of here Once I'm back in my car I'm like I'm out of here Um so do you um do you then come out of the car wash
and people go back onto Main Street are you saying they cut over to go back into the free vacuums by crossing over that kind of concrete paved area or they go out to Main Street they don't go to the main street They uh they just make a
left out of the town Out of the town though right they do And there's enough room for people to do that Oh yeah That's what that's what everybody does That's what That's why I haven't done it That's why I haven't done it while cuz Dennis is the way back I know
And the only flaw in that whole thing is is during summertime or Saturdays is when the traffic backs up onto Main Street And it does It does it does turn down main Nobody's going to be able to come out of the car wash and access the the vacuums if they're a member They're
not going to be able to get through there unless there's a gap And you know how and to be honest it only happens a couple years It doesn't have a lot I know it doesn't snowtorms right saturday afternoon Saturday mornings
I could have an employee possibly there to have to get the employees at the kiosk Do they monitor that oh yeah absolutely They're trained Yes they are trained Well and Stephen the point of taking those two out those two vacuums out is to to leave
an open That's smart That's the way you got to do it You'll be queuing up to a breast right from the front of the business Yeah And then is this a this is the same question I had before I don't know if this is a track traffic question or an operator question Do you think that the
line to get into the vacuums is going to be so long but then people coming in to use the free vacuums are going to get stuck behind the line of people going into the paid vacuums because at that point you can only get one through car through So based on our car count right
we are proposing nine Vikings We're not respecting lying Okay On the nine I know I I hope for you that But yeah I don't I don't know what the back So nine vacuums Where did someone
no existing right I thought new ones So there's eight system There's nine You're miss There's one right here Oh that's one It's hard to see in the in the green It's easier to see it I see at
the very top where the central vacuum is there's a vacuum there You have to see Any other questions from the board see none Victoria do you have a question i'm good
No I'll go and maybe come back if we have good Thank you very Thank you Open to the public Oh yeah we'd like to open to the public I'm sorry Any questions from res public seat no hands Uh we'll close the public session Thank you
Sean if you could just provide to the board your licenses and and professional expertise Sure My name is Sean Ray R E A I'm a principal and a professional engineer with Mcdana and Ray Associates 1431 Lakewood Road Manuan New Jersey And
you're a licensed uh engineering stand I'm a licensed professional engineer My field of specialty is traffic engineering and I've appeared before might have been the planning board here or the zoning board I don't know Tom came out to harass me one Yeah zoning board It was a zoning board And you've
been uh accepted as an expert in Yeah I've got 50 years of experience the two engineering degrees and I count cars Yeah we acknowledge Mr and I've known Christy for met him for a long time For too long And John you prepared a
report uh based upon the plans as proposed correct yes You've obviously also heard the testimony this evening I have Can you just review the circulation uh of the site in your opinion as a traffic expert sure Well before I even get into that uh my initial task when I
uh was involved with the project was primarily to uh assist in getting the DOT permit but also to come to this meeting prepare a traffic statement with respect to the anticipated additional traffic that the vacuums are going to generate and to render an opinion on the
safety of the access and the circulation So first I guess I I'd like to talk about DOT We will need a new permit the minor permit for the exit driveway from lot 4 to Main Street We will need that DOT permit It will be a minor permit in
my opinion based on what's out there now You you had the uh small one-story concrete um auto parts uh building It used to be an auto parts store and it had parking that was perpendicular up to the front of the store that backed out
into the right of way of Main Street I think this is a much better situation for for one thing You only have one movement You only have an exit movement You don't have an entrance and an exit movement that you have today for the existing uh block building And uh it's
only an exit and it's defined It's it's an actual curb cut It's not flush pavement so it's a safer situation Um I I I sat here and I listened to the testimony of of Libby Waterberry and Mr Resnikov with respect to how the site operates I'm local I've
used this car wash The only two car washes I use are this one and the old town down in Mansform And I've used this car wash a lot I've never really rec recognized or seen any problems when I've used the car wash for the last probably 25 years That doesn't mean that every there hasn't been a problem
occasionally but based on my experience uh the only thing that's new to me I don't know how long ago it was that Mr Resnikov put the kiosk in for this pay you used to have to pay the attendant before you went into the tunnel But at any rate the the circulation is
appropriate I think it's safe with respect to the additional traffic that the nine vacuums are going to generate I only found out this evening that they're going to be membership only So I think that's going to cut down even on what I anticipate I would anticipate an additional maybe 10 peak hour trips Uh
the DOT does not consider anything significant until you get to 100 peak hour trips then it's considered significant So at the end of the day the uh new vacuums will not generate a significant increase in traffic that will be exiting out the main street I
have discussed with Waterberry the exit from the car wash tunnel and uh I know Mr Resnikov has testified that today the way things work if people want to come out of the tunnel and go back to the vacuums they basically make a Uturn on the site There isn't enough room for
that Uh I just took a look at the the dimension between the exit from the car wash tunnel and the start of the pavers on the sidewalk It's 24.7 ft And I can tell you that uh there are two design vehicles two passenger design vehicles
that we use when we lay these sites out and design them Uh one vehicle the standard vehicle has a 21T turning radius The larger passenger design vehicle has a 24T radius And that's for a very large that's something like a Suburban or a Escalade
or Expedition that turning radius is 24 ft We have 24 ft before you even get to the edge of the concrete pavers So there is room to make that move Um outside of that I think the other thing I've heard was can and I think Mr
Resnikov indicated that the second part of the tunnel on the south side there's some equipment in there for maintenance and that he doesn't need a direct connection to Main Street Uh I believe based on that testimony there is a possibility there's an existing piece of
curb that's in between the two doors as you come at that's on Main Street There's an existing it's painted yellow There's a utility pole and a street light right behind the curb I think there's a possibility if the DOT would permit us to do it we could extend that
curve south across where the exit door is from the uh second tunnel on the south side If everybody's following what I'm saying I think there was some discussion about tightening the site up and making the geometry a little bit tighter so it's not wide open I think
there's a possibility we could extend that curve to the south to cover the rest of the the building the extension that goes through the south if the DOT permits us to do it We're going to have to make assuming if we're lucky enough to get an approval from this board we're
going to have to make a DOT application And I can tell you that um DOT especially the minor permit approved I'd rather have a major permit but that's a whole another issue for another day They are very picky with respect to the access code and making sure that
everything is right in line with the access code So we're going to probably have to finesse this through the DOT to get the minor permit So I can't promise everybody that we're going to get that extension of the curve but we're going to apply for it and we'll do the best we can to get it And John just to give uh
the board a little background on DOT requirements uh we originally had a plan where this as driveway from lot 4 was uh not curved but straighter out flush flush pavement right out to the pers And
why was that changed oh well we because the way we laid the site out we don't need that anymore We're taking the building down and we're we're having a defined exit curve cut from Main Street but we have to have a certain distance to the the joining property Yes And as Libby said there's
what we call a 12T edge clearance that's required by DOT from the edge of our curb return to the property line on either side of us We need 12 ft of edge clearance And that's why that driveway the exit driveway from lot 4 is curved a little bit to the south to achieve the
12oot edge clearance for the bowling out block If you add any curving on U main street in the area that you were just discussing is that going to is that 12T requirement going to have an impact on anything no
Uh I don't really have anything else I know there's lots of the other witnesses answered a lot In your in your opinion the curb that's say you get that curb for them Is that going to have to be yellow strip is it going to be unusable um it
depends by town You guys want to put a parking space in there i mean a parking spot Here's the thing There's a little bit of a change now They verified that the second tunnel is not used right in that fashion So
basically between the south exit and the exit from the first tunnel there is enough room to put a parking space There is Okay So it's not it's not I don't know that you would you parking spaces tell us they're cold but we could
have them put one there provided there's no h fire it there's a pole there So there's a utility pole and a street light The only thing I would say uh regarding possibly putting a parking space there I happen to agree with Mr
Freda I don't think there's a big demand to park on that side of the street in this part of town and and having a car parked out there to potentially block the sight distance for someone coming out of the car wash tunnel looking back to the right to observe northbound
traffic on Main Street I don't think What's the point of doing it it's not So I believe it's yellow curve Otherwise you have 131 but you can put it in another way too You have a visual way to the concrete Anyways you could have the
apron defined through a par of some sort to this This is a egress from the car wash and and the sidewalk area is going to be different texture You can do that instead What's the but what's the point
well to create the curb you're now setting up where the where the the sidewalk is Otherwise the sidewalk is just tilted like this What's the way it is right now yeah I know So now we can level it for that section which is about 18 ft or so Jerry Yeah a little bit more
And then also you have this other other area between the south side of the exit on lot four and the north side of the entrance on lot five That's another section where we could put curve I my
feeling is it just makes it delineates the driveways better and then establishes the walking area So if if if that's the board's preference and that's a sound reason uh you make that a condition of of approval if it's to be
done subject to DOT subject to DOT that that would be a highway occupancy permit not a access permit and then provided everything's good can adjust the plans provide plans we can review them make sure
everything's the way you were looking for it and we can go from there so condition of approval just just a point information My own curiosity you said 10 Since it's a members only you're anticipating maybe 10 per hour If it
wasn't a members only what would it be yes Might be a little bit more I would most people when they go into a vacuum even if the vacuum only lasts for five minutes they're there for a little bit longer than that It could be 20 Okay I'm just
curious what the difference someday that might go away The one thing about this car wash is everybody here probably It's mostly locals who use it Occasionally there'll be a transient person especially in the summer that will see it and use it but I'm just curious what the difference
Yeah I wasn't aware until this evening that they were all Yeah membership It's okay You know what i may have heard that it went in So let so let me just confirm this last uh condition we're talking about Mr
chair Uh so assuming approval and that the board wants this condition uh the condition for decreasing the size of the curb cuts on both access points both lot five
and lot four to the satisfaction of the board uh board engineer and subject to DOT approval I spoke to my client Mr Okay Thank you I think that's exactly the way it has to be worked So there's three curve cuts that result in correct
resulting curve cuts Three identifies saying it's a curve We got one two three I count four You're going to have one long one One long one Right You're going to have you're going to have you're going to have one to exit
where your uh backs are Correct You're going to have one to get into the site You're going to have one coming out of the tunnel You're going to have one coming off the south side to get out of the site Right But the exit from the tunnel and the entrance are the same curve right they're not going to put a little bit of
curve here right that would be one break because that'll help when you make the turn You make a left or right I know that's the way it is now though That's I don't know I think it should be for Okay
Well we don't we don't have a problem working with your engineer to to confirm what's appropriate It's a good point If it works we could do that That's not a problem Let's define it though what it's going to be Well I I think it has to be
developed the way B is going to approve right and you and you sign up I have I mean I'm not going to Trump do between those changes I believe those changes would be helpful Yeah And we we don't have an objection to that They're fair
Any other board members yeah Mr Ray how far is the new exit on lot four from Lake Terrace and Lake Terrace is a two-way street correct yes Lake Terrace is across the street if I'm not
Yes I didn't I didn't measure it I don't know if somebody has look pretty far Oh here I see It looks like if you would measure it center line to center line it's probably about 50 60 ft Yeah because that crosswalk goes from the corner of Lake Ferris almost over to
to lot four So I see that So I'm thinking you got cars going left or right out of left Lake Terrace and then you've got cars going left or right out of now three Well you already have you already have the site in a group That's already
existing condition We're condensing and and it's only an exit right now you you could theoretically if the building that was on the site reopened as some kind of a commercial entity you would have people heading in and backing out of that space and and actually it would be closer to Lake Terrace because we're
pulling it away 12 ft We're doing the best we can No I was it was it was just a question Um you know uh you know I don't I don't know the traffic at the auto parts store I've just been informed that traffic will be about you know 10 10 cars Yeah right now
it's uh 10 cars and then the 10 cars um that do you know is normally you know 100 is what's considered intact Is that ge is that is there anything geographical about that geographically in the sense of we are a beach community
where it gets very congested in the summer So 10 cars on another state road where you know could be nothing 10 cars on a road like Bradley Beach in the summer may or may not be more impactful depending on the geography No the DOT
doesn't really you know different The only thing the DOT does is they maintain some permanent traffic count stations and when you do traffic studies if you're on a recreational road you have to make adjustments If you take traffic counts in March you got to adjust them to you know summer month So you got to
bump the counts up You know they they they make you make adjustments That's better And what were the reasons that the um that the flow doesn't go the other way that block the entrance
entrance i haven't given that a lot of thought probably I think the testimony from the engineer was then the uh vacuums would have to be on the other side and be in the setback vacuum the other put on the north side
you couldn't come in and go left into the well here's the other thing I think is the entrance way you're going to have all that queuing in the entrance way This avoids the queuing in the entrance way because you're entering as far away from the
intersection of the road as possible A good point Yeah that was my first was like okay cuz you know because you have to vacuum first before you wash the car We were coming up going into the vacuums
Not only did I realize that the vacuums were pointing the wrong way and then coming in and then washing the car So it just seemed like okay you couldn't get to the panky vacuum You know what else they'd have to go around the building and come out the
south entrance and then you can't go all the way across the front to get back to the pay station to to wash your car Then you'd have to go out on the main street or people would learn to vacuum first Uh or or or that makes sense Or you move
the vacuums into lot five and you have the entrance looping up feeding the beginning of the car wash and then you could come out of the car wash as you do now supposed to do and turn into your vacuums I think he
wants the pay I know I'm just pay vacuum separated from not pay There's a way of doing this Are you done i do have a question for the locals Whatever happened to Billy's auto tech you know the It's uh it's approved for
18 two-bedroom apartments I went down there to get my car service when they came to shut shut down It was gone I used to go to him all the time I know that Yeah But I didn't know why or how I thought he was going to sell This doesn't have to be I thought he was
going to have his son I thought he was going to have his son and his son-in-law take the business over but nobody knows Okay Mr Chair I have two things No Yes So just two things Um one is you have you're going you're going to submit a consolidation deed with the meets and
bounds which will be subject to engineering review for the legal description and um legal review just of the deed There should be a mention of the resolution in there once you do that That's correct And you'll do that within
how many months well we have to we have to submit for DOT So I don't want to do that before we get DOT Okay So within a reasonable time after DOT approval is uh gained So the DOT approval should be reasonably processed We don't want the
consolidation deed hanging out till the last minute That is correct Okay Very good And the second point is for members who use the car wash I am assuming that no one has a conflict of interest or financial interest in any way and that
you feel comfortable voting on the matter before you Correct You're so good So okay I just you know there's been a lot obviously we all live in town and this is a car Well I don't live in town You
all live in town and this is a car washing town and I'm confirming for you that everyone has the ability to be objective to vote on this matter I'll disclose I'm not a member and we just have to open to the
public Sure I would like to open the public for questions of Mr Ray the traffic engineer Uh seeing none I'll close the public session Thank you And um thank you Mr Great And I'd like we're going to bring back Olivia just to provide planning testimony and wrap it
up This will be strictly planning Strictly planned Okay Yes I'm switching my hats Yes Sure So uh Libby as a licensed planner can you just provide an overview obviously you heard all the testimony You provided much of the testimony this evening So if
you could just provide an overview of your opinion from a planning standpoint as to the variance So when we're looking at we indicated that we're looking at a D1 variance I guess we've come to the conclusion for the whole thing and no
due is that what we were saying but in any instance it's going to be a similar type of testimony anyway So in going through that we obviously have to provide uh our positive and our negative criteria We had provided to you and I think we discussed it briefly before and
if I did not um we have provided to you uh pamphlets and the poster that come and J as I mentioned to you and they're actually encouraging you to not clean your car in your
driveway because of issues that arise environmentally that the water in that instance number one the chemicals are not necessarily controlled control as to what they are Where a car wash you're controlled as to what it is And when you do your car your car your driveway um
that the water then washes down and goes into the storm drains and that that water is considered polluted and then goes out into the rivers and the bays and the oceans and things of that nature They've actually provided you the one
poster that's in the back that says when you're washing your car in your driveway you're not just washing your car in your driveway And it says down at the bottom rain washes pollutants into storm drains and directly into the lakes to the resident ocean So what should you do
take your car to a car wash where the water gets treated at this at this entrance And on the car washes there's two couple ways to car washes deal with water One is is that it's they may recycle it If they
don't recycle it it goes into the sanitary sewer system It's regulated by the sewage authorities as to how much flow and what kind of chemicals are going to be in it It's treated at the at the treatment plants So it's controlled
it's treated it's then dealt with in a proper fashion So they're asking you to please not have your car done in a driveway for environmental reasons The second pamphlet that they had that kind of goes along with that was one that was
encouraging community organizations who do car washing fundraisers to do it at a car wash for the exact same reasons that we just said They're saying it's not beneficial to the community to have the water that's
polluted from these chemicals going down into the storm drains and washing into the rivers lakes and whatnot So in that instance it's not us saying it it's the DP not only saying it but advertising it
So in that instance one of the first things that we have to talk about when we're dealing with our variances and our positive criteria is our special reasons And special reasons are how do we help the general welfare of the community and that the car washes actually help the
general welfare of the community We're providing an element of where we can wash our cars not just from the chemicals that are on there but you've got road debris that's on there You're going to have you might have fluids that are on there You have brake dust You have all that kind of stuff that washes
down into our lakes and and our rivers and our ocean or beach community We don't want that to happen Correct and think about it in the winter time Get all that salt on your car So then you're washing the salt even more so down into
the store grains and into these water systems So the first thing that we're looking at when we're looking at our special reasons and especially with the Dvariance a D1 variance is that we have an advanced a a enhanced not advanced
but enhanced uh uh requirement for meeting the general welfare of the community and using the car wash is being indicated by the D a state organization as being to the general
welfare not of your community but of the state So very different than what you have with your uh other uses that are noted in your ordinance as not permitted in the community A car wash is noted as not
permitted in the community Not just in this but not in this community Yet we found that we're in the state's indicating that this is a benefit to the community to have this and encouraging your organizations to utilize the car
washes even for their fundraisers So different than what's on that list we have auto body shops we have service stations uh repair shops we have all kinds of uses that are on there that have a much
more nox noxious um and and opportunity to cause um harm to the environment or harm to the community They might have uh chemicals of of even greater amount that are there I can see why they're on the
list You know gas stations you know you get those on there as well I don't think that this is the same as those kinds of uses So we have a differentiation I'm trying to differentiate the fact that
this is shown on your list as a not permitted list might be something the town might want to consider but that we're looking at the special reason being that we're having to deal with does this meet the general welfare of the community and I'm sharing with you
that I believe that we meet that aspect of our positive criteria and it's not just me saying that's the DP saying that when we look at our positive criteria we also have to meet the goals of the and I have a couple that relate to that um and
again pay I'm not going to repeat all the testimony I had before you know we're looking to balance the the coverage that's on there which is a benefit um rather than just having it be a separate and have two highly covered plots we're looking to to balance that
So what we had uh a was to encourage municipal action and the guide appropriate use of or development of all lands in the state in a manner that will promote the health public health safety malls and general welfare I just shared with you as to why I feel that it meets
the general welfare and why I believe that the is saying that as well too So I think that purpose in the M Well definitely applies We have B which is to promote light air and open space We're taking out a building that's very close to the street that's very close to the
side parking lines that creates a total block to the whole rest of this this lot And even though we're going to have a use on this lot it's going to be open You're going to be able to see it to the back it's going to have a totally different feel to it And so I believe that it definitely is um it definitely
is doing that And then the last I want to say uh is it's uh item J to promote the not so much conservation of historic sites and districts but it continues to say that they're looking to uh promote
the conservation also of uh the valuable natural resources in the state and to not have degragation of environment through improper use of land And by having the having of the car wash helps to take away that improper use of the
land of doing it in your driveway or the front of your house or fundraisers doing it in a parking lot where the water is then running down into these storm drains and causing issue to the environment So for those reasons I feel
that we've met uh appropriate goals within the MLU and with that and the enhanced uh effort to be a um a uh working for the general welfare of the community in the area I believe that
we've met our positive criteria When we're looking at our negative criteria we're looking to see if there's a substantial detriment to the public good Um We're really expanding the accessory part of this We have I guess I'm dealing
with the D1 on the original lot as well too And you know we just talked about the value of the car washes So I don't really see that as a detriment to the public good And we're expanding the part that's less infringing onto lot four
with no additional tunnel You know that we're providing the um arms So I don't see a uh that being a detriment We're in and um we're looking to balance the coverages which I think is a help We're
putting the central back back which would be the thing to possibly have a noise to the back of it so it's not it's placed to the rear of the facility furthest from the nearest residential drawings again looking to minimize
negative impact that would occur So I would offer to you that uh based on the above that I feel that the uh D one variance and the C variances because they have similar maybe not
rising to the same degree but similar types of proofs that would be required uh we have to show that the property is unique and that the property is uniquely and particularly suited for the proposed development as it's directly adjacent to the car wash lot We wouldn't have this
opportunity you know if it was two lots over You know the fact that it's adjacent to it and being adjacent to allows the developer to develop the lot with less coverage than would otherwise be done to try to balance out the two I feel that we're consistent with the
goals noted in the master plan and the ordinance as we're bringing the site into into a greater bulk requirement conformance And although the word on that prohibited list for the reason that I just told you the intention of the goals is to not um I don't feel it fits
into the same category as the other uses that are prohibited and that we promote several of specific goals noted in the burrow's master plan as well as the ML and supporting actions that that are requested by the D by having it be done
at a car wash and part of those goals that are in as we said you are a sustainable community Part of the sustainable community is dealing with uh green type of development And although we are um not going to be doing the
porest concrete or anything of that nature we're still greener in the fact that we're taking away we're in a regulated area for the car washes where we're we're having the water treated from ours It's taking it away from the actions at the private homes or at those
events And for that reason we're very much within the intent of the ordinance The added mass plan they also look to have non-conforming uses become more uh conforming We've done that by taking away several variances that exist on the
other lot I offer that the the variances can be granted that substantial detriment to the public good And I enhance that word It's not is there a detriment you can probably find the detriment in anything but the main thing is is there a substantial detriment and
I feel that the um the benefits that we create here outweigh any detriment that may uh occur the variance does not substantially impair the intent and purposes of the zone plan and zone ordinance again since we're prohibited
listened to reduce I don't feel we fit into that I feel that we meet the general welfare and so we meet the intent of those documents and that the development enhance advances the purposes of theou act by the deviations from zoning ordinance requirements noted
above and that the benefits of the deviation would substantially outweigh any I would I would agree um with the planner's testimony I would just also add um you know there was testimony earlier tonight that uh this site has
operated as a car wash since 1938 at least So while they are seeking the D1 use variance kind of just to clear that up and legalize it um and expanding the use onto the site they're now consolidating to
make it larger I think the site is particularly suited to the car wash use since it's been there for almost 90 years at least um and been operating as a car wash for that amount of time I think you have the wrong date 1960
Oh there there is an indication on a photograph that it's exist from the 30s Okay But what the photograph is is 1968 So the photograph said 1968 with the car wash was there since 1930 So both dates
but still a very long time Um and um I would just also say I think you know the applicant is proposing um a lot of improvements to the site that are beneficial to the community as a whole um in particular those um curbs if we
can get them and reducing the overall curb cut on uh lot existing lot five Yeah Uh and I think just the reduction in the total total impervious coverage of the
study is an improvement as well So what she said and Lydia I just have one question Uh I want to bring you back to 1989 and the resolutions in 1989 Are you in agreement that what's being proposed here is our components to the car wash and that the
car wash will still operate in the same manner as the current operation today correct Can I just ask one one question Jerry again the impervious concrete is that a deal break you having or not
having no I have no objection to it being there um it does have a benefit and it's not included in the calculation So they're not we know that So if if uh to move forward with it that's fine It's
more expensive to install Yeah I think just the issue with um pvious concrete is often maintenance So that would just be something you know we would need someone would need to make sure it's maintained because if it's not maintained then it doesn't act as then
that would make decision maybe for the future Don't put it on the table if you just take it back You know what I'm saying i I because I I think it's good I think it's a good idea We have no problem going either way You know I understand that the the concerns and the comments of of your engineer and again
we're asking for the variance We we put it in there but we're not necessary I think they the way they proposed it is fine Um but the borrow is in good standing here either way But I like to hear the decision to say yes or not but
it seemed to me like they were going to move forward with the force payment No they're not The statement just made wasn't Yeah that's what they That's why I bring the question The way I understood I thought you weren't moving forward Well when it was said that you take the ashalt I mean we'll do ashalt
We'll do it That's what saidation too So that's why I'm a little confused Which way are you going with it i want to have a definitive answer Yes or no so does the board have a preference i don't know I I I'll speak for myself I'd like to see it cuz I think any way you can control
water run off Listen if it works five years right you get the board says "No that's I have no you don't maintain it at all then it's just like it's a regular it is what it is I have no preference either way but the
ball is really in the apple of it court we've given them the option by grant by proposing to grant the variance for the 81% yes but the poorest pavement needs to have an operations manual and submitted and reported you
know that also does lay a burden on the burrow as well because now you have go forward year after year D includes that in your storm water control maintenance program every year annually So there is a lot of extra work that comes down
which I don't think we have any of that right now Well the code department's overwhelmed already So it's it's less for them I the reason it doesn't bother me to do the asphalt and I've said it already is that the GDW zone literally right down the
street is 90% So I think I think they've done a very good job in terms of balancing especially with the reduced building coverage at 15% So if I could then propose on behalf of the board that they consider putting their payment and not using
okay just eliminated How's that all right I just want I still want to be leaving ambigulous Yeah No was we we are happy to comply with asphalt Okay Great And I I do want to um I did enjoy
your testimony forward and and I think you led with something that um is pretty interesting You led with uh this unique opportunity and the opportunity is that either the owner of block five or the
owner of lot 3 had to buy this lot Mr Resto decided that he would do it and that is a unique opportunity So um anyway I just want to you you have a summation Well I guess we have to open to the public Oh yeah Thank you sir Um any members of the public
would like to comment on the application uh you step up and be sworn in by our our board attorney Uh seeing none I would close the public session So I I would just say that what our our client is doing is really in in
compliance with what happened in 199 1989 Uh and the fact that the board of adjustments has already had a decision on this property Um the the benefits are it's increasing the size of the property It's bringing down the overall impervious coverage of the car wash site
in general Uh we're we're bringing it fairly substantially close to what's allowed in in the zone as uh Mr Chair uh pointed out and the zone right next to it allows 90% and well below that with what we're proposing Uh I I think we have provided sufficient um
justifications for the D1 variance for a D2 variant We are proposing only to add accessory structures not additional expansion of the actual car wash facility Um as Libby testified there's some significant benefits to car wash facilities I'm sure that when this
ordinance went into place car washes were were looked at completely different way they were noisy and they probably didn't recycle water and other things that they have to do to that There's some significant things that our client has to do to be in compliance with uh you know his storm water uh management
his his um environmental management of the property Um and I I think the hours are appropriate The operations really aren't going to change other than the fact that he's going to open this area to his um uh customers who pay a membership fee in the long run if they
use it a lot they're going to actually save money uh as opposed to the paying customer But you know that's up to to the membership Uh but our clients saw a extremely important opportunity here to buy this lot um and to add these extra
vacuums to help with actually the flow of traffic on on the site for for the membership um while at the same time not increasing his operating hours beyond what's already there So I would I would uh submit that what we're proposing is exactly what the board of adjustment
said in uh 1989 and that it's compatible with with the car washing premises which is still in operation uh in the same manner in current operation today Thank you Thank you Mr Chair this one this thing and I just uh throw that out for
all our board members that this is a use variance and for approval it requires a super majority vote of yes That would be 507 right yes instead of do uh do we have a motion from the board
yes I would uh move to approve the application second I don't have a list I can get you started Okay go ahead Okay I should have made a list Um they're going to add a masonry blocks face wall
around the trash area Uh all aprons to to be concrete from the curb line to the property line Uh they got to go to D for approval of their access plan and
then we're going to coordinate that through my office Any changes for the traffic going from out of the tunnel back into the queue Okay Okay And additionally uh there were uh there was
a review of uh Jerry's report and an acquiescence to compliance with the report except for specific things where they will satisfy our board engineer Uh they will comply with the report and if
they can't comply with the report they will have to satisfy the board engineer So I'm going to write that in a general way And I would just can I just add I would just add another condition was um they'll work with Jerry on the lighting um that they will not keep all of their
lighting on 24 hours They will reduce the levels but they will have some safety lighting on um on the site on lot four On lot four Yes absolutely Consolidation and consolidation The consolidation deed uh is a condition of
approval The consolidation doesn't require require we just that that can happen consolidation Yeah they'll probably want Well we if there's a problem with DOT they might not move forward I can't I'm not going to consolidate the deed until I know all I have all our appro
the re and the last thing that I have is the removal of the porous pavement proposal and in it will be asshalt is that what we're doing yes okay so that there will not be a requirement for the maintenance and
operations manual let me just see you also have landscaping that was I have landscape I have Yeah I have the landscaping subject to uh Mr Freda's approval
Just looking to see if there's anything else The delineation of the concrete versus the pavers Uh Jerry will work with them the amount of curb cut will be decreased subject to approval of Jerry uh Freda and subject to the
DOT So that's pretty much what I have and for now on I will keep a running list during the hearings Does anyone else have any other items for the resolution just quick question D does have a problem
consolidation We voted tonight on having consolidation happen Yes consolidation is required Well yeah the do I might recommend because the use variance runs with the land right and if the lots are never consolidated I might
recommend that the use for variance runs with the consolidated lot No objection D12 and you know Jerry Jerry will deal with a change necess necessitated by
whatever the DOT does They don't have to come back to us if there's a total rejection of by MJ DOT to anything but Jerry's going to work with them and we're going to try to get those curve cuts that the board really wants
And as Mr Rya testified there's going to be a submission and a push for that We'll work with Jerry to identify where those are going to be and submit plans accordingly Y Okay So those are all the conditions So the motion that has been made and
seconded includes all of those conditions and I of course will be sharing the resolution before you guys with our board engineer and our board planner So they will review it with me before it gets to you guys And and just
a technicality for the the letter is both from myself and Christie Yes Yes She didn't have any petition but yes Christine okay so I had my so Mr Cart made the motion and my second was Mr ordinate So
Miss Hernandez yes I think that anytime can get rid of a nonconforming lot we are good luck Miss Mahoney Um I say yes Um actually in the business
owned up to 100% maximum service coverage So I really appreciate you guys bringing that down I can show how um comprehensive this application was the under development of lot three Um I think that this
um affords commercial and industrial uses on this on this spot and it's you know the environmental impact um is very compelling Yes Thank you Uh Mr Mayor
I I think the plan uh uh given a lot of thought to the plan I like it I vote to approve it Uh I don't think it will uh cause any substantial detriment to
the public So I vote yes Thank you Um Mr Warner I vote yes Uh I really appreciate the the thoroughess It was very educational and I really appreciate it Mr Clark I vote yes I think it really
met the goals Um I appreciate the efforts that were taken to reduce the lot coverage and balancing that Um improving the access I remember when I was in parts place and watching people pull in and
out and now a dilapidated building and so getting rid of that high score and improving that um I see the benefits of the er space um open that up instead of crowding it right on Main Street
um and uh you know removing all the non-performing side and rear yard setbacks uh reducing lot coverage I think you just went um you just did an excellent job in um
in going to in meeting all those goals Mr Mayor I vote yes And it's great to have an underutilized lot eliminated in the roles and move to another lot to reform one It's better for the town
And uh I vote yes I agree with all the testimony by M Lbury with regards to special reasons and purposes of building Uh I'm a big fan of an assemblage especially on a very successful business in town Uh so it would be a nice
enhancement to a successful business So I hope this Thank you Make a motion to go So okay Okay Yeah Well you hope that I have it ready [Music]
Yeah Out of here in a minute but we just have a couple bookkeeping things Congratulations Mr uh the $20 the second gets 10% [Music]
$20,000% Thank you so much [Music] We got more [Music] paperwork It doesn't go here I'm like "Oh that's something to tell me this week."
Oh boy [Music] Hey Jeff you got two next month Oh the other one is on Yeah I just didn't send you the letter yet All right Thanks Okay Okay The uh next up on the agenda uh we
have just a couple bookkeeping things Um uh we added to the uh the agenda the uh review of the board professionals billing and that is exactly what it is It's merely a review We're not here to talk about it We're here to forward these on I just want the board members
to review them so everyone understands the cost involved in the process and uh you know our our applicants and our professionals do spend a lot of time But we need to uh there was some questions at a council meeting about the bills list things that were on there and I
didn't know what it was So can Jerry Yeah if I could Um for the benefit of the board um every application is different and when an applicant comes to this board and they have an attorney and they have an engineer and they have a planner and they have an architect it
requires less time on our side to get through the project People think they're going to be saving money by not going out and doing those things What results in is us having to do way more to get the application even to the point where they can come to the meeting So just
recognize a lot of times somebody say this a lot of you know you guys put a lot of time Well because it was a reason or why is it taking so long to get why is it taking so long to get because you've been incomplete for three submissions and you only send me stuff once a month Right and completeness When Christy gets us the information we
process it and we go through it for completeness That's our first step That work is part of the letter that you see And then you get the benefit of myself and Christine uh in as part of that letter call So there's a little bit of
economical savings for the applicant I'm just going to note for the record that the mayor and councilman have returned but I just wanted to go to make sure people were aware You know a lot of times somebody will come forward they'll appeal the zoning officer's decision Yet
if they don't hear the answer they want and you uphold the zoning officer they want to go right into their application That means we have to go ahead and do our review Well there was an occasion I know where you guys didn't uphold the selling
office decision and then that person came back and complained about their bills Well they paid their professionals probably should be able to pay their profession Oh no No Absolutely And I think the scope of this is that um you know we have a lot of newer members People have been through
the process and and I think it's important for us all to the cost involved both you know to our applicants and from us I mean we get a bill from you on reviews of affordable housing So that's a separate bill to us I think it's important that we all see it as
Yeah No and it's fine and it's good to discuss If anyone has a question please let Christine and I know Yeah I mean sure feels the same way Yeah It's not for us to review If you have a question about the bill you can always call Jerry or Christine Emory But but it's for us to now forward that to the council Yes
Yeah Um the the next thing we had was uh new business Um the council the other night uh approved two applications for extensions for outdoor dining The third was denied but all three indicate that they're going to come to us So I just
want to make sure um whatever approvals they got from the council were only good till July 18th So that gives us three meetings uh May June and the July 15th meeting to accommodate them And again we'd like to accommodate them But I just
wanted to pull the board to see if uh we should kind of pick a special date maybe in in May or June uh that is good for all all the board members just to have it in our repertoire Do we have any indication when those applicants would
be submitted to a look to them to have a meeting no they're probably going to wait until July 3rd I promise you and that is on the record they will wait till July and then they're going to say that we are being inconsiderate We we
had the we have they've already contacted me and I told them what they need to do and I have seen nada So that was UVAs and Darcy's and the is on them and the onus is on them So once they get the complete paperwork and then
then we move forward get ahead of the car which is crazy I'm sorry And then the Darcy's might not wait because they didn't get approved Right You want to be the 15th according to who's the other one that got approved and right we can't schedule a meeting until
we have an application because it may be three pieces of paper That's not I can't schedule I mean the thing is is that um how much do we have in the queue because I don't want to hold up anybody else who I've got two
applications with Jeff for May I have one application Um they've obtained council Jim Kraco for June That's all we got Okay So well no that was the purpose so we could all say okay we're going to give them the hold the
main meeting They may not be able to get on Would you for May and then we also have to do the municipal um public access plan and the uh affordable housing plan Okay And those both have to be done when uh so the MPAP there's really no
timeline on I just recommended that because it was approved in 2019 and the final step is getting it adopted as part of as part of the master plan Yeah Um uh so six years later Um but the uh
affordable housing plan has to be buttoned up done by June 30th That um I know TJ had asked at the last meeting We will be ready for that by the May meeting Okay And what type of notice i mean is this a consistency type review
or is this a port or housing plan so the it would be a public hearing um and the planning board would need to adopt it as an element of the as an element consistency So it's the housing plan element Correct Christine how does what you just
described align with whatever conversations you're having with the council because I know I I reach out to So the planning board um so the house housing is a little bit tricky because it's a little bit different The planning
board it's an element of the master plan which belongs to the planning board right so the planning board needs to adopt it as such but then um the council needs to it's late at night I can't think of the right word but the council
needs to like um basically say they support the plan and adopt a resolution doing that And this is not a a power thing at all I'm really I don't understand kind of who owns it So I know it has to end up being everybody owns it
But I mean are we going to work with you know your colleague Jen and Verro our resources your colleagues yes Right Is the council Paul and I and the others are we going to work with them first and develop something are you going to work
with So we've been developing the plan and I think Jen has been and Ron have been working with you Right Not at all Not at all Not since not since when was the last time they were here maybe a month ago We've talked but but we have
not once the last thing Jen said to me was um I'm just going to go through some of the the prior year's applications to get a sense of volume of activity So we So okay so we have So we have all of that
information We have So she just hasn't we have like a draft of everything So she just needs to So how again how's it going who's going to hear about it first the council land So the council will hear about it The land use board will adopt it and then it'll go back to the
council The council will review it when it comes to the land use right because the affordable housing plan right the land use board needs to adopt it as part of the master plan but the burrow needs
to adopt it as their you know like to be in compliance So I get the sense that this is going to be a very amorphous 10-year plan and you can change it every week thereafter So I get the sense that it's going to be it's still defined but
like and maybe I'm wrong but but however it's defined is is it going to get adopted and then shared with the council or is the council going to say don't like this change that go back do this do that because if there's going to be any of
that interaction it's got to start right so there will be a final draft of everything by next week that you by sometime next week not like Monday that that then Jen and Ron will share with
you with the council Yes So we'll probably see it first Correct Then we like we we tweak it go back and forth it takes a couple weeks whatever Yeah We get to a point where the council likes it we're voting for it comes to Lisport and Millennium doesn't like it for some
reason we have somewhat limit we're circumcised by what the council does in certain respects right but and we're looking at it for does it meet the master plan
requirements for affordable housing You're looking at it for are we preparing for uh uh the next round are we eliminating some things from the past round do we agree with the vacancy
um uh numbers do we agree with how we're going to plan for affordable housing and then what do we do with those funds right So a lot of a lot of you know you did not you withdrew from the third round but a lot of um a lot of the
requirements are kind of like boilerplate You already got the ball moving on a lot of them So you know there a lot of those things you may have seen already um or in some form
Um they might be reintroduced Um but pretty much it's not really anything super new It's just kind of updating it to um where you are now to this And maybe I'm expecting more than I should
Maybe my you know my my imagination is running a little wild on me But I kind of have this vision that we'll have a plan that We I think everyone knows this but we have like no money in our trust Trust that was established seven years ago but
never I guess activated or whatever But I'm thinking this plan will say in five years we'll have collected $1.5 million and at that point we might be able to do something purchase some property contribute to some other development Yes
that'll that'll all be part of the plan Yeah Okay I'm I'm hoping you know I'm hoping for that But then the more creative it is which I will applaud uh the more chance there's that there might be between this body and that body
some So there are so I you know there's there's different types of affordable housing um activities you need to assign percentages of the trust fund money to Um
so we I think that you are hoping it might be a little more creative than it is because it'll be a little more general right like you know we can say we're assigning X amount of money to rehab activities or Y amount of
money to go towards you know whatever it might be Um so that's what it'll and the plan will include any kind of legislative changes we need to make as well Correct Right Yeah or or whatever kind of ordinances you may need to
change like the collection process maybe was it's in your ordinance but it wasn't set up to be enforced every time someone came for a building permit So you know those procedures may need to be flushed
out with your department that does the building permits you know you come for a building commit that's usually when you have to fork over money that goes to the affordable housing So yeah and we did just start I mean effective February 1st
but I think we've got $5,000 justice That's more than some people have Some some some entities have It sounds to me like knowing that we may
see this I just want to get started because we have two bodies of individuals that need it right time Yeah Can't imagine it's going to be a perfect you know council Bruce and Bruce Well that's usually how it happens But it
sounds to me like a conference between you as the mayor and Jen and Ron as the affordable housing issues for the council you should maybe talk and then figure out They've got to sort of advise you on what the schedule is because my
understanding is all your work and all our work has to be done by June 30th I understand that and I was told we'd be ready by May And the community portion happens in the land So is that executive session for the council say that again
Is that an executive session that the council gets together to go over that well or is that done in in the Well with with respect to executive session there's not necessarily a requirement for anything in close session You may
have a workshop where you're getting the plan and you may you can ask the advice of Ron Do we do a workshop where we're talking about A B and C versus X Y and Z and maybe there's the council isn't on
the same page or whatever You can do executive sessions but you need to talk to Ron on whether or not it is required in the circumstances that you're clear The the land use board won't need any executive session because it's strictly land use that would do It's strictly an
amendment to the master plan of a required portion of the housing element I I I would so I'm forgetting the 10 requirements executive session but I'm not even sure it fits contracts it's not
there's but I think I think we I'm speaking for the council and that beate but I feel like we would do workshops I I like that idea of having an open discussion public having a public weigh in so I think that would be preferable
but again all that leads to we two months Yes you're right And and and there may be like count uh Mr Chair is doing for us Do we need an extra meeting in there there may be time where where
you may need an extra meeting July uh June 30th is a drop dead Again I think that this is a something that you should sort of raise with Ron and Jen Maybe next week they can give you a conference call or something One last question just
see if others do this if this is something that's procedurally you know appropriate but if we schedule a workshop can we arrange it that can basically invite the landing board to attend and and maybe separately request
everyone's participation like we lead we the council lead the workshop but with our professionals but can we get the ladies board in the room and have them actively asking questions and um I they're going
to form a forum I I don't think Oh they are Yeah Yeah I don't think that you that's necessary And I also don't think Well that's one reason why you would do that But there's often
uh hearings that are not hearings there's often extra things that are scheduled to meet with the public Even if you're not having the public hearing and we are responsible for holding the official public meeting you could do a public session where you just listen to
what your citizens have to say that kind of thing Again this is all out of my valley width so I can't really tell you I just know that from other towns when I've represented towns there have been
bigger than Bradley Beach and with more is affordable housing issues and vis the the executive session if there's a a potential for litigation and and there are decisions that you're making that
could be uh akin to you're inviting litigation versus you're not and I don't know your situation even No Ron's in my office I've never really sat down and discussed him since January on you but certainly the potential for litigation
is a reason for having a closed session if it's necessary It's necessary I don't know that you're really uh necessary with that you know So and this is more than I want to say in public session I need to ask a question because as far as
the land use board goes like here Yeah Um I have to do a notice There's two notices that have to go in for for the affordable housing for the for right any master plan element Yeah There's one that goes
in a week prior to the 10-day period and I have to have one out the 10-day period There's two notices that have to go in the paper So can I plan on noticing for both elements for May i mean we might as well get them out of
the way And can I do them all in the same notice public And can they be in the same notice i am not the lawyer but I would So they would have to be done separately Well I think
so If if one of them requires two notices they both require two notice They both It's like if you when you It's like any element of the master plan when you adopt the master plan or re-exam and you also adopt you know additional elements correct you can do them in one
notice correct I believe so yeah so it's the same thing as that I would think you could do them in one notice so we can do that what happens if for whatever reason we're not ready and we have to push it to our June
meeting because I don't know why well well we already have two matter scheduled for May but we can get a special meeting if we need to Well that that's the purpose of our discuss that's why we have this to
poll That's why I'm trying to figure out what So if we look at the timeline the next the the council meeting would be May 6th Okay Now we don't know if they're going to be ready on May 6th to then send something to us for our May 15th meeting Correct
That's what I'm saying So what would happen i mean because of the noticing requirement if for whatever reason things don't work out at the council level and we don't get what we need for May can we make the announcement that it's going to be carried just like any
other item i don't think so I wouldn't take that chance No I think you'd have to redo a notice Re do But would it be starting from scratch again like would I have to do two notices i think so The whole notice process has to happen all over
again Especially since you're dealing with affordable housing We're not going to take any chances on notice But but let me just say this In the beginning of the year we had the annual notice You'll you'll remember that I said we can't
have correct on the notice But we all know that we're saving those fourth I think it's the fourth Thursday right so we should be focusing on maybe the last meeting the the last Thursday in May Yes
And perhaps not the last Thursday it's actually the 22nd Okay So so so maybe we should be focusing on May 22nd as a possibility but she'd still need to have to know that as as as Christy is saying
by by two days but I'm not I'm if I wait till May 6th I don't have enough time to know That's exactly right That's why I'm getting it So so if it's on May 22nd that gives the council the 6th and the
20th right to go through it So what if the Oh yeah but what if we do our meeting on the 29th because there's that extra That's what I'm that extra Thursday in May Okay The
22nd is too close to the 6th Yeah And our regular meeting is on the 15th So if I could if we do a special just for the the master plan elements Yeah Yep And I think and so everyone should
be looking at their calendar and seeing what the availability on May 29th is I mean I know that's close to a holiday right it's the Thursday after Memorial It's after Memorial So that's perfect I mean not that that's perfect but is
anyone like on vacation already anyone know that so we should be reserving that May 29th as a potential date and we're going to have to decide that We're going to have to we don't have to check with anyone So Mr Chair you and and Christie
are are going to take your cues from what we learned from Ron Jen and the mayor as to when they're doing it I think they should finish theirs and then we should do our part I don't think you're going to have a problem with
adoption of uh master plan elements It's not going to be controversial uh for from that perspective You you're you guys are doing the part that you know where's the affordable housing going to go and how much of it and when
is it going to be you know effective and all that stuff We're not doing any of that We're merely saying the zoning issues uh in our part of the scenario So okay And then maybe we could add the access plan to that meeting also And
that that's why I said do both Yeah I'll notice and I think that we should also look at a second because that's already done date a second date in June just in case we can't do May I will not be here on the 26th of what june June Okay I
think well so the endorse that's the word I was thinking for the council needs to endorse the housing element after it's been adopted by the planning board so I would recommend we aim for the May 29th meeting because
that doesn't give them time right okay everyone's in agreement I mean we only how many members do we need five yeah we just need majority you obviously five I mean we have 13 29
if we can't manage five [Music] and the uh the mayor and council representatives they participate also so they're do they for master plan yeah yeah they do exactly so we'll have five
yeah they do the only thing that they can't do is use variances That's and and so do you know if if these three uh restaurant institutions have gotten denial letters yet from zoning
okay Because they can't even apply There was actually that's not true I did somebody I got I'll tell you which one it was I just because I don't remember who Uh Ubers Ubers got a denial They got a
denial and that was on Okay Decision date March 6th Okay Oh wow Yeah we're in April Yeah All right So there's one We'll see how it goes Check Thank you I know exactly
Did any other board members have anything tonight any other new business old business i'm sorry Just one So I know it sounds good We made progress 29th is when the board endorsed No the land use board adopts adopts We
doing back to you When when it's back to us to approve like tell me the process who's I get it back to Erica on Friday right like this like this and then you can endorse it at your meeting on the So we've got to we've got to kind
of finalize our view of the May sixth right or fifth Okay Just for the record it's April 17th and we still don't have anything yet So you will get everything next week Next week not Monday
Thank you Christine I am I we our office is closed tomorrow so you're not getting it Monday Uh anything else you can do thank you Um would you like to make a motion of course Okay Make a motion to adjourn
Okay And we're put May 29th on our calendar Thank you All night Oh yes Congratulations Have a nice Easter [Music]
We've had so far Actually pretty good You can kind of skim through that like you'll see the headings of what I know Hey thanks a lot Thanks a lot And I'm
going to say [Music] [Music] Yeah like there must be like a letter underneath but it's free because they got me last week and it got me again
today Fantastic Over to the tiki bar Unless we get out at 10 o'clock in which case everything will be closed Bye Bye There's a bathroom out there right
you have a drive My sister tried to get me to come to her house I have to work tomorrow [Music] Hang in there Thank you for so fast We knew you were going to be
number one All right Sorry Mr But it took a little longer by the way guys I expected But was it And it wasn't really right The engineer she was a
little much Their engineer very informative like don't get me wrong but you were like she was she covered everything twice Oh I didn't I was I'm going to debrief with GJ or somebody but you know you guys may start with you I thought I
given that it's a use experience I thought it was a pretty good application you know So I was wondering It took so long I was wondering if you guys would push it back kind of hard No no no no no This is all coming from the floor
Did it Did it pass unanimously or yes Yeah Yeah Yeah Okay good That makes sense At least it was back and forth I mean it was good application I think for where it is and you know what they're doing Yeah it's perfect