things kicked off here this is the brainer safety and Public Works committee meeting 6:30 and brainer council chambers uh five items on our agenda the first of which is Direction on active code enforcement and Community Development
director cranck yes thank you Mr chair uh so staff is bringing one property before the committee for review staff is looking for direction from the Council on how to proceed with the case attached this case file for 113 Washington Street Northeast uh staff was made aware that an individual ual is living in the
commercial property and was and is without Utility Services uh staff did send a letter earlier this year but did not have enough evidence to pursue any further um so with that um with the new evidence that we have staff is recommending pursuing legal action with the city attorney and I can answer any
questions uh just a couple I guess clarifying questions so um we received notification that someone's living in a commercial zoned area which is of course not allowed yep and then we received verification of that um through kind of a separate the police
report yeah we received an incident report um that indicated that that individual was living there so we do do believe that to be the case with that evidence and then um just looking through the staff recommendation um the motion to purs or the the recommendation
to pursue legal action can you describe what would that entail like um our City attorney would probably be able to answer that a little bit better at the council meeting but I believe it starts with an injunction making aware that it's against city code um and then I believe if uh we get further evidence
that that individual is still living there it could lead to um uh other potential legal action that could lead to a misdemeanor okay thanks question uh just my that was kind of going to be my question that the we'd be going the legal action would be first addressing
the living in uh in in this particular uh commercial space that that going of be the first wave of it or is there multiple waves do you think James on the uh on the legal that's the primary issue with it okay got it okay no further questions
okay ready for a motion yeah with that I will make a recommendation to move forward with the legal action at 113 Washington Street Northeast and I so move and I will second um all those in favor say I I I those opposed the same
sign motion carries all right thank you and our second item uh approved request to reduce brainer same day transit fair and Public Works director Mike abigor thank you Mr President uh this year we' after
our analysis we from 24 we did an analysis on that and we can safely say that we can reduce our same day fair from $6 to $5 currently right now we are looking at uh if people book in advance it's $3 and if they do a same day it's
$6 and but we're comfortable enough to indicate we'll keep the $3 the same but we should go down a dollar or yeah go down a dollar to $5 and we'd be still safe within our you know numbers to make that work so that's what we're looking
for as a recommendation or approval that we can reduce our same day rate fair from $6 to $5 questions yeah just a what was the impetus of this was there complaints was there um were there people asking how did this come up no we we do this every
year we do our analysis based on the previous year and then if you look on the packet on the handout um there's a couple there's a memo from me just doing this summary of the actual analysis yep and then the Sean the one table further
down is a little bit more it's a table it indicates the there you go so that's the current rate is the $3 and $6 on the outside of the table and the three and five on the inside and then if you scroll down a couple
more on the bottom of that one go right there on the bottom one there that you can see brainer baxer Crowing County so Brainard would be at 27,000 that's what we would we'd put in our reserve and uh Baxter would be that Crowing County we
would ask them for a check for $2,000 um to make that work so it was just just your normal auditing process of just kind of looking over the figures and and that so I have no further questions if you're ready for a motion go ahead I just going to make a comment to kind of to that same point year end
evaluation and really you know there was enough in there um net positive to one put money in reserves make what's coming up next is the kind of the potential U right investment and then also reduce faires so and I just want to say thank
you to Jesse for doing this analysis he's great with numbers so thank you Jesse for that and uh also we brought this to our Tac our transportation and they didn't have a quum um so we're just coming forth to the city council one more yeah go ahead and so this isn't
necessarily in perpetuity it's just until next year when you relook at it again correct and with that I'll make a motion to reduce the same day fair from $6 to $5 I so move second any discussion and all those in favor say I
I I all oppose same sign motion carries all right that brings us to our third item also Transit related this is authorized solicitation of request for qualifications RFQ for Transit software and Public Works director Habor yes
thank you Mr president currently our software that we're using we can't reach out for uh any support they don't have any support staff to operate this when there's a glitch we just have to work through it ourselves so we are are going out for um RFQ and asking for
qualifications we want a touch base uh software that you can download the app and just uh reserve your your Transit ride right on your phone on your app and it and we would there's programs out there where you can use speech mode and
it just saves so much time so I think when they and they do have um they have really good staff regarding you know just service training wise and to service that platform it's going to be a cloud-based platform so it's going to be updated regularly and uh the nice thing
about this is that we don't have to um we have a healthy uh Revenue in our operating budget and Transit is U we're able to you know we talked with Connie we got we've made sure our our budget is fiscally sound and we can easily uh
obsorb this within our operating budget so we're really excited to go out for an RFQ to get something more updated and I think it's really going to help our users um just scheduling their their their rides but with that yeah we're asking that you approve us to go out
there solicit this uh purchase it and then actually implement it into our software technology great thank you questions my question was going to be so the thir why the range of the 30 to 50 is that uh because we don't know what our
respondents are going to be with what software they're going to come back with it seems like this software should just just be this is what it costs yeah well because all the features are totally different we just want to make sure that we get these features and we don't know what the market is out there um so so it's not like there's a software on a
shelf we're going to buy this and boom it's okay got it understood so it's got to be somewhat crafted to our user well there's there's it's already crafted there's multiple venues out there and we're just not sure if we go with a cheap one if they can do all what we are asking for then we' get the cheap one if
it's the more expensive one that can do all of we want then it's going to be the more expensive but it should be within this ballpark I understand and so the idea of going out for the RFQ we're not necessarily going to say what we want this software to to do specifically you're going to wait for the respondents
to say this is what we offer it's going to come back to us and then we're going to make a decision based upon what our respondents were yeah well we have a list of we're asking for these qualifications and we're saying hey we want this we want this we want this okay everyone out there in the world what do you have for us that we're going to
sorry it say some minim minimal qualifications right and then see what's out there and then see where the price is at we don't want to just go with the actual price we don't want to say we don't want to limit ourselves with that we want to go on qualifications so that's why we're doing that U this this
method would it be fair to say that if once this is if I may if if it once this is implemented this is a cut down on staff time you you described glitching you know all that kind of thing rough estimation of kind of what we anticipate this how this is going to smooth things out TimeWise one I already sort of
jumped uh forward with that and right now we have one and a half uh we while we pay Blue Sky to do what they do and for them to do we have a list of things that we that they have to accomplish and to do that they need one and a half
staff person to do that so one and a half but we know that with this new if when we get this we're going to be jumping down to one person so we've already made that efficiency we've already eliminated that half person and we've already done that because we know
once this comes out it's going to help us so we already we can easily absorb that um and we've already made that efficiency so is the 30 to 50 Grand the Delta between removing that half person or do we get to subtract that half person from the 3050 Grand no we don't
yeah good understood yeah I'm trying to quantify like the buy and then one following question if I may and then once once it's purchased how do we get this to the user what is is that part of the package they um use data they they use Facebook ads or whatever how do we
get this to the user to get it in their hands to make sure it's actually getting implemented once we get it sort of like our survey so you've all received that public opinion survey so we printed that survey out and we put it on our buses and we just ask people hey when you're sitting there on the bus scan that QR code and do the actual survey this will
be the same thing we'll have uh an app they can download and go right there and start uh using it very good and will there be a time frame uh a sunset of which they will have to use this app at some point will every single user have to use this app at some point yes yes do
they won't have to they could we'll still have our our actual Dispatch they could still call in but I think after they see how user friendly it is it's uh going to be light years ahead of what we are currently doing that's all sir thank you thank you I think the the biggest
benefit to doing this is what you shared in the staff you kind of right up here the report is I mean this this software we have currently is Antiquated something like mot's requesting or suggesting that we change it uh and when I read that staff is even though we have
that current software staff is still manually having to do the scheduling right dispatching and things so um ready ready with the for a motion whenever you have that yeah I'll make a recommendation to approve the solicitation of the RFQ uh for the
implementation uh implementation of the transit software and I will second and all those in any discussion all those in favor say I I I those oppose the same sign motion
carries all right thanks again and our fourth item this is discussion of sourcewell construction uh procurement great thank you Mr President this year I was extremely excited to hear about this one in my eyes there
there's uh really three ways to look at uh going out for bid for construction projects low bid and then Sears Sears are construction management at risk the state of Minnesota just approved Sears uh in 23 and now this new way here is
actually I believe a superior way it's in definite delivery in definite qu quantity and this essentially I'm just going to give you a quick little scenario on so low bid you just don't know what you're going to get with Sears so construction management at risk you
all four of you will sit down the architect the engineer the contractor and then the owner we all for sit down and we talk about the project and then let's just say the annex the annex next door let's say we're going to remodel that so the all four of us with the semar we would stand on the sidewalk and
we would say contractor you just signed a piece of paper that it's going to be X number of dollars for you to remodel this the contractor by themselves will be the only person going in the building and they're on their own all three of us are just sitting back and we're saying hey you've already signed a document
that says you're going to build this with this and so they're at risk because they don't know what they're going to uncover when they rip out that wall but now with this indefinite way all four of us will go into the building sourcewell will be there and now when they rip that wall
out sourcewell will say hey this isn't as bad as we are expecting you still need a change order but now sourcewell is going to be managing that that change order and that's the beauty of this we are going to be guaranteed not guaranteed there's nothing guaranteed in construction but this is really going to
help us find we get a qualified contractor and sourcewell is managing the actual change orders and that is the beauty of this within all of it it's just uh um but anyway it's I'm going to let sourcewell take it from here they
have a short little uh Scott are you there yes I am can you hear me okay Mike yep good so I think let's give him a few minutes and then if there's any questions we can go from there yes pleas very much welcome Scott well thank you
very much it's a pleasure to be with all of you at the Brainard city council meeting this evening as Mike mentioned um my company uh gordian and I am happy to send all the documentation uh for for further followup and review and answer
any more questions that come out of this but my company gordian we manage the Construction contract for sourcewell and my operating assumption is that you're all very familiar with the fact that you are a member of sourcewell and the reason that we're
able to do that is we're the world's leading provider of construction cost data um we've been doing something with that data for 35 years we founded a process as Mike mentioned of procurement of construction through Cooperative
contracts and the reason that we're in a position to be doing that with sourcewell now in Minnesota for 18 years is we founded that process so our specialty our at the risk of sounding arrogant our domain expertise what we do
very well is we work with all states and in the United States specifically in Minnesota and we will put out a public solicitation for construction we divide the state of Minnesota into seven regions because we know that Crowing County has different prices than
hennipin County St Louis County and we will take our construction cost data uh and cont we will have contractors bid against our construction task catalog contractors that once they bid against it in a public solicitation which is 100% compliant with Minnesota statutory
competitive bidding requirements and they go through that public solicitation and then sourcewell Awards uh the contractors a Construction contract based on best value which most heavily factors price what we have an effect an effect achieved is gone through a
competitive bidding process for construction so a city like rer has the option of looking at the list of awarded contractors and I've had the pleasure of uh meeting with Mike and Jesse and kind of sharing the list of contractors that you have available to you and as Mike
said the benefit is now you have performance-based construction contractors that would be using fixed unit-based pricing or construction local to Crow inome County local to City of Brainard and instead of going into that B that building or that structure alone
or the contractor goes in um in the semar model you have gordian construction account managers that will accompany the contractor of your choice and we can we will and shall uh you know consult with you about the option of contractors high-tech has been mentioned
and they're an outstanding contractor but we're neutral when it comes to the contractor we serve the organization in this case we would serve the city of Brainard and we go through a process by which um you have a joint scope meeting early in the process so the contractor
uh gordian construction count manager coming we walk the project we do a joint scope meeting early we're doing this all with no obligation on the part of city of brainer we do this at risk we'll do a joint scope meeting and then we get mutual agreement and I believe it's a library project we're talking about
potentially I we get joint scope meeting to get Mutual collaboration agreement on the scope of work all of that gets documented making sure that there's agreement on the scope of work and from there the contractor will build a price Proposal with gordian's supervision from
that localized construction task catalog where all the prices are fixed unit-based transparent and auditable and they'll build that and we will review it in the process we go back and forth on means and methods we have construction uh pricing specialists in the form of
account management local to you that will do this and then we'll review it with the city of brainer make sure that your questions are answered make sure that you understand it you have no obligation to go forward with it but if you do then you have the option of issuing a work order or a PO and of course your all of your Construction
contract terms and conditions they still are applicable and you would contract with the contractor high-tech in this case and or the contract of your choice but your terms and conditions for payment for performance for bonding All That Remains the Same and the benefits
really quickly are one it's Performance Based high-tech and all of the other source well awarded contractors are not guaranteed any work they know that if they meet or exceed your expectations on any of the projects they can be your first call without hoping that they were
the low bid in a hard bid scenario secondly um even though there's full agreement on the scope at times you can go into a construction project and might discover that there needs to be additional work or undiscovered scope you knock out a wall you discover as fesus in a traditional hard bid scenario
you could have a contractor that won the hard bid and then they introduce a change order and the change order all of a sudden doesn't seem so competitive because maybe they're trying to claw back some some margin we're not disparaging contractors we're just saying in the real world that can happen in our scenario this is performance base
the contractor is going to go back to the book in this case if it's a f as abatement they're going to pull the line item out of the book that task the quantity of that Tas and that's all done with our supervision so gordian construction account managers are going to be overseeing seeing all prices all
price proposal creation and only until we approve it and release it uh would that be released to you as a supplemental job order so um in summary where we see this is a nice additional option to everything else that you have is one quick engagement with local
competitively awarded performance-based contractors two unit-based localized pricing that's completely transparent and auditable we shared a pricing example with Mike and we're happy to do that with you our price proposals are very granular we use the CSI
construction specification Institute um all of the um the contractors go through this public this public solicitation so it's 100% compliant uh actually we just got a a job order for uh brainer ISD 181 we're going to be doing it looks like a
roofing some bathroom remodeling so we've been doing this in Minnesota for 18 years we're humble in that we know there's lots of options for procuring instuction but we just wanted to uh take the opportunity to thank you for letting us share information how this is an additional option for you uh for the
library project or other projects um renovation repair replacement and kind um we've been doing it for quite a long time and I'm happy to answer any questions I know that was a lot from me but I'm happy to answer any questions that anyone has great um yeah thanks Scot I was going to ask if you were
available for some questions which you absolutely questions oh goodness I have lots of questions go ahead please M yeah Scott can you indicate like on a $500,000 contract what the dollar amounts would be for uh you and then our
rebate sure so um gordian when When contractors bid against our book when I say our book our construction task catalog they look at the the the 300,000 items and they're going to assign a single adjustment Factor think about that adjustment factor is a markup that
markup includes includ what they have to add to our fixed unit based pricing uh for their overhead their profit margin that also includes Gardians fee to have local construction account managers uh and walk the projects review price proposals manage the construction task catalog and train contractors run the
program so the the fee is included in their adjustment factor and that fee uh constitutes 7.5% so it's included in the contractor's adjustment factor and we can send you all of the different contractors in their adjustment Factor but that that's
7.5% that includes sourcewell and gordian in the aggregate so if you do issue a purchase order or a work order um and you you contract with a contractor you don't ever get a a follow-up invoice from Gordan the other question that Mike
asked was as the region that you're in and the crowan county region uh those Source well members are eligible to receive a 1% rebate uh and and the aggregate of everything that is purchased in a calendar year uh through
sourcewell not just construction but if you buy a snowblower or you buy it equipment all that gets added up and then in the aggregate there is a an annual 1% rebate good thank you welcome go ahead I
just wanted to follow up with this there's there is a fee there is a cost to knowing that we got quality work and that cost you know we should be okay protecting our assets our buildings our infrastructure we need to protect those and that's why I asked Scott that
question we need to protect those and the big picture is that in a few years we're going to be working on the fire station we want to test drive this make sure it's good because our most precious asset our fire station we need to protect that and not just anyone we need
to you know we just can't let anyone walk into that building so that's why I'm asking and bringing this forth and regarding a motion I would just like to you know for your consider ation that when another job does come up if it's the library fire station that the
council is good to say no we want this process this indefinite uh qual quantity or we want to go low bid or whatever that would be on your discretion so when we do have that project so I don't want this to I want this just to be an open
um you know approval I guess that when we do have a project that we know that would be best suited for this manner that we bring that to you and say you know Council we would like to use this manner this indefinite quantity uh process versus low bid please approve
our deny as such sure that's all thank you oh my goodness I have like a lot a lot of questions uh but I'm going to try to like just get kind of to the to the meat and potatoes part of this you said that you your book creates unit pricing
for roughly 300,000 different items did I hear that correctly yes correct our our con struction task catalog has on average 280 to 300,000 specific tasks each that task will include the labor the material
and the equipment required to perform that task and then there's a unit price associated with that task and how so you so a builder Builder X looks at your book and puts a line item behind every one of those 280,000 for what their
performance would be or their cost to perform though that unit pricing all the way through your book that's what you use use as your Manifesto to to then push out this work in a in a unit price method is that right correct so what what contractors
will do and and we have the benefit of experience working with a lot of very uh good contractors that are familiar with this process so they've become accustomed and very uh familiar with our construction task catalog so on a on a rolling threeyear basis so about every
three years we will go back out to bed and obviously with inflation and prices for construction materials all that changes we all know what happened to co but our book it it evolves and contractors will look at the most recent book and we do spend tens of thousands of hours we use AI to generate uh
construction task catalogs that are localized so that contractors are given access through software to that that book and whether it's high-tech or Krauss or noran or R they they will look at that and then in the aggregate they'll say okay we're going to add a factor or an adjustment factor a single
Factor across the entire book so it's not you know 12% for for carpentry and and and 18% for you know for cement it's it's a single adjustment Factor across the entire book and that's because each contractor will come into this knowing
that their their means and methods are going to be different maybe Krauss does more self-performance than norson where they've got specific subcontractor relationships so uh just to add a little bit not every contract that has the same adjustment Factor but they are awarded based on best value and sourcewell looks
at those adjustment Factor But to answer your question the adjustment factor is consistent across every uh construction task line item okay understood um so roughly how many contractors do you have in croing County right now that are
participants in your CAC is it okay if I share my screen I'd be happy to share and show this to you we've got a number of them if it's okay I'm going to hit share and then share and then I'm going to try and
do okay can everybody see my screen uh no we're just seeing you still okay okay let me uh okay it saying possibly might not be an option but there how about that there you go okay they're a little
bit of a latency okay I I use this slide to uh when I have limited time which I do today to try and put together what we do so this is my company this is sourcewell and in Minnesota as I mentioned we divide the state up into seven regions and because again the
costs are going to be different so in Region Three grro County where you are uh we have awarded not only General Contractors but you can see electrical mechanical Paving Plumbing Roofing all
of which went through the same public solicitation and this is the most recent list happy to send this to everybody um if you'd like and so you can see uh some contractors are are are wed across the uh the entire State uh some I know very
firmly understand that you are in Region Three you've got Krauss you've got nor sound rack RJM uh high-tech is in three um and you've got electrical as well so we are in my opinion I've been doing
this for five years our service and where we render value Val is through a robust list of Performing contractors that are that are motivated to perform based on this program those that know this process know the book and are really good at working with us to
streamline the construction procurement process so does this help answer your question about the available contractors you it does uh a little bit um jump into the question really please um I know You' been patiently waiting how does how does a any contractor in our area get on
this list they can contact you sourcewell go through the process or yes sir great great question public procurement yeah my question will this be boxing out any local contractors from the process so what one of the nice
things about this process is we are constantly doing contractor Outreach and education uh so on on a three-year basis we will do a like a Statewide advertisement making you know contractors aware of this process let's
just use an example of of a library renovation project um and Hightech did a fantastic job city of Walker um did they did a like a $2.5 million uh renovation and they're they're thrilled with how that worked out but one of the nice
things is if you've got local subcontractors um say you've got you know Carpenters or drywall or painters or things like that they can work under the GC so that's one of the benefits of early engagement so you pick a contractor and
we can consult with you on the types of projects that are going on all over the state um and I I should say Hightech was mentioned but this is completely up to you um and in that joint scope meeting when the contractors on site you have the chance to tell them look we've got
some really good Carpenters or painters or the subs that we want to use in this specific project and that's all accommodated through the program so on two levels one we trying to constantly do Outreach to get newes and and specific trades interested in bidding on
that solicitation and two even if they're not on this list as a sub they can perform under a GC I I hope that's helpful yep absolutely councilman Jager how how does gordian make money sure so
when the contractors bid against our construction task catalog they add that factor that that markup uh our fee is included in that so they they account for what their margins have to be to operate to cover their overhead and their profit and they they factor in
gordian's adjustment Factor so that's when the contractor gets paid and according to City of brainard's you know performance and payment Provisions in your contract once the contractor is paid then we will invoice the contractor understood so they pay you out of what
they're getting paid is that fair that's correct okay is is that number revealed what what is that number can do we know what that number is is it ever revealed to the public uh it is public and I can also uh I can send to you a list of of the we
can get you um the the factors for the contractors if you'd like understood that's a lot um one of the nice yeah one of the nice things if I may and I don't want to C I don't want to trespass on your time let me just do this if I can are are you still able to see my screen yeah is it still is it
still the list of of contractors or have to a source screen yep the map and the list okay let me do uh share this tab instead I'm getting used to I'm trying to get used to WebEx on the flight now can you see a different screen correct okay so I'll I'll make sure this is
available to you what are the benefits of working with sourcewell is that again they they are a government agency and they are all about transparency and so all of this information this is their website obviously all of the contractors have this type of information that's
publicly facing on their website so um all of the documentation uh about how they were solicited the general terms and conditions the technical specifications the contract it's all there and their Factor their their pricing and factors available on request
and we can work with sourcewell to get that to you um at any time that you would like during the process okay understood um and I'll just mention one question that you've already answered that I had was just about that you don't have to go back but that previous map
you know that I know you have this list of construction cost and materials but now my question was how was that aggregated was it Statewide National but and you of course you've answered that that it's local it it is local yes we has anybody in the oh I apologize I didn't mean to
speak over you no that's fine has any has anybody on on the board have you ever heard of uh estimating software called RS means yep okay I I heard somebody say yes so that is is um
actually something that gordian also sells different sales folks um but that is estimating software when we put together a construction task catalog as we have for the state of Minnesota the construction task catalog that any of
these listed contractors will use will be localized to Crowing County in Region Three for labor material and equipment so the book pricing will re it's different for every region in Minnesota and in this case uh the contractors that a bid they bid against the the
construction task catalog local for three so Krauss as you can see is an all seven regions they've got a different book price different factor for each of the the seven regions high-tech you can see there they are in three they have book three pricing and that is localized
and again I I will say uh our book is extremely robust um and every you know 280 to 300,000 line items and again they they uh it's localized and we were're constantly updating it um we are chosen
by sourcewell because of our domain expertise in creating these compliant programs but also because we're the world's leading provider of construction cost data understood question I do I'm sorry I just this is a this a big decision here um so um so let's just take
hypothetically this Library project we're going to meet with our Public Works we're going to we're the team is going to identify the scope before we start right you're going to bring in the profession you're going to bring yourself in you're going to bring in Mr Habor in there we're going to bring in potentially our building
partner all at the same time to try to as a team identify what that scope of work is is that correct that's who that's who's creating the scope it's not an outside architect it's not an engineering firm it's not Mike it's it's a team creating the scope of work before
we start right so yes you've got the option and and our are let me just have uh has my screen switched and now you're looking at a new slide okay okay so this this program is designed to accommodate construction based on your needs and and
if you have design involved uh or then obviously the contractor can either work with you on your existing design firm that you're contracted with or they can offer you know a suggestion on design firms engineering firms that they work with uh it's completely up to the city
of brainer um if there's one of the things things that this is especially um useful for is say you're going into a renovation project with a bit of a fuzzy scope right you might have some drawings you might have potentially some design
but right here in that first step that de joint scope meeting you get the contractor you get gordian on site and there you're going to tell them about all your priorities your timelines uh your budget you're going to talk about maybe local subcontractors but if there's design involved the contractor
again they're performance-based uh it's the prices in the book are already fixed so it's really coming together and getting mutual agreement on that scope so that's where they can offer you potentially some value engineer you know value engineering suggestion so it's up to you how you want the project to go
but they are there to collaborate and and engage with you to to help with the scope and make sure that there's mutual agreement on what that scope will be understood and of your average project what percentage of the scope of work inside that book is in that book is it
100% of the work or is it great question that is a fantastic question um what I can tell you is that the highest majority of the time uh it's it's less than 1% um outside of our book um in in
fact we do price proposals reviews all the time with the owner and we will share that uh with you I'm trying to on the Fly try to pull something up here but um when we do price proposals um we will show you I'm going to show you if I can really uh real quick uh it's okay I
that was really my question was the really the 1% the one I got one final question here and I think I'm going to stop I could talk about this all night but obviously construction background I appreciate your questions um what is your what does your historical data tell you the difference between the uh the
price proposal to final contract what is that Gap usually come out to what is your average you give a price propos osal of 100 Grand your historical data tell you you usually end up within a window of this percentage by the time you get all the way to the Finish Line do you know that
measurement uh so if I understood your question you're you're asking for the percentage of time or the percentage of probability that once you have a detailed a final detailed price proposal of which a PO or a contract is issued what percentage of the time does it fall outside of that price either go higher
yeah correct because it's unit pricing right there's unforeseen and there's no the the unforeseen are not buried into a bid they're not absorbed by a bidder saying I'm accountable for this work even if there's an unforeseen or the change order process or whatever so what
I'm trying to what I'm trying to measure here as a metric is what the you you start out believing the prices versus what you end up actually manifesting that price when you get to the end does what what do that how often does that work out to within and what
percentage the highest percentage of the time it's you're paying what's in the detailed price proposal which you contract against okay or contract for so if if in once the contract say you you you do start construction and there's something
unforeseen um then you you introduce a job order yeah but the benefit is as Mike uh alluded to before is you've got this very upfront early collaboration and if there's any design involved that obviously mitigates you know the things
we didn't understand we didn't know we didn't expect we we assume different and the contractor walking that job they're walking the side of work so it really does minimize we don't say eliminate change orders that's irresponsible what we say is we we reduce greatly the unforeseen or unknown because we're on
site and we're walking the job with that contractor so um you've got a much more higher probability and and certitude that you've captured almost everything that could possibly be considered and and again you have the the certainty of going you know to your board and your
stakeholders and your your your uh citizens if if there is extra work that you even want to on your own prerogative ad then they go right back to the Book pricing so there's never an incentive for a contractor to come to that Library joint go meeting and kind of hold back and say you know what I don't see this
in this go we we'll make it up on the back end with a change order well they want it higher they would want it higher they would wanted everything identified on the initial scope obviously ahead of time yes that they they would um and so that's because it's Performance Based
they they want to make sure that you know they're thinking about that right they're not holding back well thank thanks again Scott um I'm done with Scott yeah I have one question for Mike but that's uh okay thank you so much though thanks Scot you're all welcome um
Mike had advised that I would probably want to be available for the 7:30 meeting correct and I'm happy to do that and so on until we're completely just hang on I I will go on mute and stand by thank you city engineer Dean thank you I just
wanted to jump back to the question about the hiring the architect or engineer question um so that you know really depend on the project so it's outside service right we' bring in and they would be rolled into the project take like the library for instance you're looking at you know feasibility
or the no not feasibility but the uh facility study where we have kind of a list of things that we should be doing and most of it's just repair and replace um there's not a lot of I say need but a lot of goals to hiring an architect to go design replacing toilets or replacing
a a boiler system you know we can work pretty well with contractor directly and doing stuff like that uh much like doing it at your home for that for that instance um but that's also some of the benefit of the program is uh there is some cost savings where when you do a low bid type of project you're going to
have to hire that uh outside service to prepare a bid uh package for you to go out and solicit the bids uh we're on a project like this you may not necessarily have to do that uh if you were to go this process so there is some cost Savings in that uh on this type of project but you have some other projects
where you might be doing some more architectural changes you're going to want to do that uh hiring an architect anyway so y thank you and you said you one more yeah sorry for Mike um roughly what is this Library project in scope we
it's under 500,000 how much it's under 500,000 okay um and if if I may so the recommendation from staff is just that you approve the authorization to bring this to council
with a project in hand saying we would like both this procurement process to be used on this very specific project correct and then you would either say no I want low bid I want C I want Bill design whatever mechanism that you'd
like and after that say that goes to council and approved would we have the option to change at some point and do L bit even for the library project if we changed our mind right this would just be one tool in the toolbox going forward that we can utilize I like that analogy
exactly this will be in your toolbox to say you everyone already understands it now we're not we don't want to use low bid we want to use this you know procurement process to do this on this specific project now on a repayment we may want to say hey let's do low bid or
we may do something else similar to the example you were saying in a one situation you may want to pick something else so the scope of the work is an exterior the exterior items and the mechanical items that were identified in the um in the study from 2018 uh minus
what has been done since then uh we do have a budget number of 426,000 uh so that's where we're trying to push for right uh to Mike's Point uh we we'll return with a proposal from a contractor uh if this is approved uh and give Council something to chew on and if this
is a direction that they would want to go I'm almost feeling like you know I know Scott I'm sure would have a lot more to say a lot more of a presentation to give it almost would be benefit to the whole Council to see a presentation on it I don't know if that's timely happy to do it anytime
you'd like happy to do it standing up comments you may or may not have but um that's all the questions or comments I had I guess we got one other item after this we should correct do you want a motion on this one but or do you want to uh I I think we could I would entertain
a motion um and we can obviously talk about it at Council and if at that point they want to see more information um but knowing that it's a tool in our tool belt that we could use I think I'd be comfortable entertaining a motion uh so I'm I'm uh what I'd like
to do is I would like to make a motion uh uh to for Council to authorize the utilization of source um construction procura program uh with the upcoming Library mechanical repair project only so I what I want I want to be clear about this motion is that it is just
this project okay uh this will give us the ability to and I'm going to just make a comment with this if that's okay this will give us the ability to just kind of feel this out because I can absolutely see advantage in this system uh but um like all things in construction it needs proven so uh with
that will make that motion uh and I so move Mr chair uh clarification of the motion you said mechanical repairs only does that include the exterior as well you meant yeah I'm sorry I I meant uh the the scope of work we're talking about for the library project so I'll amend that motion to include the exterior and the mechanical repairs yeah
thank you and I'll second uh any discussion hearing none all those in favor say I I I those oppos same sign and motion carried bringing us to our our fifth and final item of the night uh
for a committee meeting the approval of WSB Amendment request for L safe routes to school um improvements and uh Public Works director Habor yes thank you Mr chairman so this one the council's already
approved this project we Jesse brought a great idea to me and it was just hey let's add some Outlets to this uh median and we could have the option to put lights on for Christmas we could just do a variety of different things and for a
low cost of $2,300 we could actually add some Outlets to this area to really just liven it up uh we'll have that um in our tool belt to use if we so uh choose and I think it' just be a really nice um beautification to that area so yes we're
asking that you approve this uh WSB amendment to this uh contract it's $2300 and 2317 and I think it' just be a good added to our project uh thank you so we've we've
hired WSB to do this Improvement along the quarter through the safe routes is this through a safe routes Grant is that yes okay thank you and within that Grant we're widening the median and so this additional request is simply to add the outlets just add the outlets for
additional lighting correct um safety lighting seasonal lighting what have you correct question yeah to be clear this is this would be just seasonal lighting not safety lighting right I mean these are going to be Outlets literally on a pole correct right next to the in that
median correct and you said that city council already looked at this what portion of this did they look at nothing with the outlets just correct just the project itself so now we're just coming back saying hey we forgot to add Outlets we
would like to do that just just add that beauty to that whole neighborhood it just be an advantage uh to that neighbor neighborhood oh Mr chair I don't I feel like I don't have the history with this project this one is one where I almost feel like I'd like the city council to
just look at this but if if you have some guidance for me I'd love to love to have it don't have the back a question I guess if this is seasonal lighting or decorative lighting is that safe routes eligible or will this be you know through our own budget I guess would be
or is that possible to have safety element to it city engineer with he applied for that so Jesse can you comment it's not directed towards any specific use of those U Outlets uh it's very spec very generic that it is just
outlets in general um so as of right now we're keeping it as an eligible expense U unless we're told differently sorry keeping it as what as an eligible expense okay um the context I can provide I know we've been very successful with safe
routes to school grants in the past we did the safe for the school plan we've been awarded several infrastructure grants since that time uh the median is going to be new is that's a part of that is that correct or because there's currently not a median in the in Atri and that's already part of that correct
and then this addition would just simply be to add the outlets to the scope correct so this will be a little bit different than what we did at uh on Oak Street uh because it is going to be a little bit of a wider median than Oak Street uh we uh elected to go with a landscaped median with trees um so this
is a reflection of that additional change with those trees to add the outlets as well okay yeah thank you um would entertain a motion if if you're if you'd like to hold it off we
can bring it up just at can we do that can we bring it up on the main agenda just without a recommendation I just don't have the history with this project so I feel like I'd be operating in somewhat of a vacuum with other council members that have some history with this project so my
leaning is if this is is strictly ornamental decorative lighting um these are in the poles right this is a wire going up the pole to the top is that right is that what this is nope these will be just small really short pop up outlets right at the base
of the tree I see understood yep for use for about seven of them we're planning and planting Seven Trees so these would be small probably 1 foot uh above ground uh popup Outlets essentially for potentially doing Christmas lighting on
those trees in the median understood my leaning would be to um would be to motion against this just uh based on an additional cost that we may not necessarily need see use for down the road um so that would be my
motion now but I would be but I really want this the city council to weigh in on this so I will make the motion to deny the uh the approval of the uh amended request in the amount of $2,317 and if it doesn't get a second it just what happens with it then
Jesse it would fail for lack of a second and would we go to big it would just defer to the council without a recommendation correct yep which is what I see happening or what I was hoping might happen so they can I think we'll uh at this point 722 no second and so
fails for lack of a second and it'll go out of the council agenda but at 7:21 we will adjourn the safety and Public Works committee meeting thank you