meeting of the brard Independent School District 181 Board of Education to order we'll start with a roll call please Bo here Michelle Breen here DJ D here Randy heidman here Sarah spear here
John Ward here great and even special we'll you go ahead and do the Pledge of Allegiance then we'll get started I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with
liberty and justice for all thank you all right so today is a special session and I only have one more meeting left so we're going to get casual here you go Kev we don't have to any director this director that superintendent Grant just first names let's just try to do this
and so when we originally set this meeting we had Barb scheduled to come up and um work with us on some of the mechanics relative to the uh superintendent search um we've since changed that slightly today's discussion is centered around uh
interim superintendent Grant um who as you all know his board members reached out to us all a couple of weeks ago and indicated um an interest in exploring the idea of sticking around so we're going to talk about that with Barb today and uh Peter's decided to join us for this meeting as well to answer questions
and and engage in the dialogue with us and then uh Stephanie I invited her but I guess she didn't make it um she might show up if she does then we'll let her join and ask questions as well so the the outcome today barbs agreed to come back uh if need be on a week from today for our board meeting next week and
depending on how and where we end up in this meeting we'll kind of structure what that looks like if we need to and we'll go from there so with that said the whole purpose of bringing barbin is to provide us with um some insight based on the numerous superintendent searches that she's been involved in and you know
just to give us uh a little bit of an outside view to help us kind of frame the discussion a little bit um because I'm crappy at that and uh so and before we start thank you for coming up Barb um uh as as always thank you for your
ongoing support and tolerance of this group um it's been uh just a pleasure to have you involved ever since we've started this process way back when and again we appreciate your guidance support and all of those different things and and especially for the time
to come up here and meet with us so absolutely okay with that said I'm going to kick it to you to maybe put a little framework around it if you're okay with that and then we'll we'll kind of see where we go that sounds good thank you very much uh it's good to see you all again and I have to tell you it's always worth the drive because I really enjoy
the robust discussions that this board has um it's healthy it's open it's clear and that's sometimes my favorite part of the job so thanks for inviting me back up I'm happy if you want to you come sit up next to John if you want so you can
ask questions and things hello might as well start practicing now hi I'm Stephanie nice to meet you nice to meet you thank you so in anticipation of another robust discussion what I had thought I might do is just outline some things to consider
at this point in the process because as always you have options as the board about what next steps occur here Briner Public Schools so one of the things I want to say first and foremost is that it is not uncommon for this conversation to happen within first three or four
months of an interim superintendent's tenure I would say when we have an interim superintendent step in for a suspended search this conversation usually happens maybe 40% of the time and we want to make sure that a school board in considering their options has
this conversation before we go into launching a full Sur yet again because there's a lot of ripples from every decision that you're going to make so if it's okay with everyone here today I'm just going to spell out some things to consider in your conversation today and then I'll turn it back over to you to
have that conversation and I'm happy to expand on anything that I say or any questions you have I am definitely not going to tell you what to do however I want to make sure that you're very aware of um both pitfalls and opportunities that lie in front of you as things stand
today so again fairly common to have this conversation with the board at this point in the year of the interim superintendent in every situation where there's an interim in place um there's two variables when it comes to next
steps one is the individual interim superintendent themselves their plans their goals their competencies their capabilities the other variab variability variability I'm sorry it's been a long day is the district itself and how complex or how
stable things may seem in the district itself and sometimes those two things align and sometimes they don't so with those two one of the things for example in terms of the interim themselves not every interim is willing to stay a second year so in this case a few weeks
ago when Peter indicated that that was an option not one that obviously the board has to take him up on that changed things from the perspective of having an interim who is willing to potentially stay a second year if it's the will of the board that's not always the case sometimes
they're one and done so there's that then the district complexities you know the district far better than I do and so you know what's needed right now and in the next year or three years or five years for brainer Public Schools so we want to take a look at how those things are going to dovetail or diverge and
that's part of my purpose in being here today is help you make that decision because it's all dependent on those two things correct um typically an interim superintendent's job is to hold the but steady it is not to be a change agent it is to keep the district going in the
direction that it is headed it's often called a placeholder and that is when I say typically in the past it almost always was that I would say in the last three years it's less often a placeholder because there is more
complexity in all of the districts that we're working with there is just a lot more happening and so the superintendent that step into the shoes of an interim have more on their plate than traditionally they may have three four or five years ago I think that is the case here in Brainard that as uh Peter's
progressed in his first few months there are things on the horizon that are looming um that do add to the weight of the decision you're going to make about what next steps are so you want to consider what's going on in the district um in terms of an opportunity to
potentially have him stay one more year one of the things that is challenging for an interim superintendent in pretty much every circumstance is it's a one-year appointment and so they come into the position with people in the community
students staff seeing them as well they'll be out of here at the end of June so it can be more challenging for an interim superintendent to hold people accountable or to make changes that might be necessary in the district because they're here for was it seven
more months now at this point eight more months something like that that's a challenge that doesn't mean it's a reason to keep anybody by any means but it is a challenge when they are here for um that one year ten years the accountability factor is sometimes tougher because people know they're going to be out of
here so uh timing and circumstances are really important um one of the things that I might suggest that I have seen work if there are things on the horizon that are quite challenging for the
district it can be a strategic decision to have someone stay an additional year to do some of that rather messy work and then leave and there's an instance I'm thinking of where a superintendent came in as an interim with for one year and
the district was really hemorrhaging money and they needed to close an elementary school everybody knew it nobody wanted to do it couldn't be done in one year time so in that case the inum stay a second year closed the
school successfully but not without Challenge and hurt feelings and upset people because it's a very difficult thing to do when they then left they took that baggage with them and the superintendent who came in after those two years had kind of a fresh start
without the awkwardness of some really tough decisions hanging over their head in their very first year on the job so that's one thing to think about is um the potential of someone coming in and inheriting a real challenging
circumstance and having to make some very tough decisions very quickly in partnership with the board they're not on their own is that something that a new superintendent wants is up for sometimes absolutely those things will become known throughout the search if you
conduct a full search of what's out there in the next year and a half for brainer and I think in the levy is one right did I hear that correctly that kind of looming out there as a possibility um that may attract some candidates that love a challenge and want to walk in and fix it it also may
cause some candidates to not throw their hat in the ring um so that's just a decision that you're going to have to think about as far as what kind of pool you might get based on the kind of District they're going to inherit July 1 of 25 if they're the new superintendent so circumstances
and timing are both really important and then I think um one recommendation I would make is if if there's a decision by the board for uh Peter justay another year that the term be superintendent not interim
superintendent there just is again that perception of an interim superintendent as having less power um or authority in that position so changing the title of superintendent if you do that I would say my might be a wise decision if it's for this year only keep interim for
sure that being said and I'm wrapping up here pretty quick um if you proceed with the full search you need to hire someone This Time Peter cannot be your fallback option because that's the first question
I'm going to get when people call me about this search is so if they don't hire anybody this time is Peter going to come back for a second year if there are Whispers out there that he's waiting in the wings if this search doesn't go the way you want your
pool is going to be about that big because the risk of their names going public is too much so it's better when you're conducting a full search to have complete finality on our interim superintendent is done
June 30th of 2025 he does not want or nor will be brought back for another year and then if this search doesn't result in the candidate you want I think you got to find a different interim because that message you're sending to the applicant
pool is yeah we're going to just kind of keep looking and working and you know that a third search in three years would yield a pretty small pool and I I'm afraid I'd be disappointed for you and the kind of folks that might be willing to stick their neck out if yet again we
don't find somebody for you I'm optimistic that we would find somebody for you we are again way ahead in terms of timeline than we were last year and that's a really good thing um I might say one more thing so I recognize I'm asking you to see around
corners a little bit you can't know everything you don't know what the pool might look like you don't know what might happen with your budget or with the the love you just don't know those things you need as a board though to try to anticipate what would bring the most stability to the district and when and
stability is a squishy word because you may find someone who starts July 1 with a three-year contract and for some reason or another they leave in that first year so you can't ever make assumptions about how long a three-year contract will actually last um or
another year for Peter you know life happens people circumstances change Family Health whatever so you just do the absolute best you can with the information you have right in front of you and so I think today's conversation is about what information do you have right in front of you right now and then
discuss what you would like to do from here msba will support you in whatever decision you make today or next week we'll be here to ensure that we do our absolute best to find you the right person to lead the district but those are some things to consider and I know
it's kind of a lot so I'm going to turn it back over to you and I'm available for any questions that's what we've learned from from interim superintendents and their experiences in districts like this great uh John Barb clarify for me mba's contract with us is to be
fulfilled when we have a superintend a permanent superintendent no matter how long or when is that correct great question thanks for asking permanent superintendent is not the correct term our role was to find a superintendent and if that person leaves within the
first year we will do the entire search over a again at absolutely no cost so in this case if you were to offer Peter a contract so in essence last year you would have hired someone who stays for two years we would have fulfilled the contract and we would send an invoice
then does that make sense so for the first year of someone's tenure we would redo a search but if you do hire because some people hire someone for one or two year contracts usually it's three but in this case if there is a second year of
his term then that's the two-year contract and our guarantee is for that first year because you hired him last year after the search was complete did I explain that right maybe I'm not yeah so in that circumstance you would invoice us if we extend and give Peter a new one-year contract correct you would
invoice Us in July correct if he leaves if he leaves within the first year which he would if his contract is up on June 30th we would do another search for free but the the two years does take it past the one-year guarantee same person in that role is that okay
well kind of I think so I want to get it correct in my mind so that I'm absolutely correct on this so let's say that uh let's say that Peter agrees to I don't care two three four year contract and as you said it's no longer interim superintendent it's the
superintendent does that fulfill msp's um contract yes okay and even if stays for two years and the title remains interim super tendent you've still found someone to lead lead the district beyond the first year after our search concluded last
year so it would we would still invoice we're paying way and then I understand that that's the deal if we hire a new one repan keep Peter repan their years up we owe them the money but we're if we keep
Peter for one more year then we start the search over and the cost starts over correct cor but if it would help we'd do an abbreviated search because I think at that point you wouldn't need all the bells and whistles that we offer because the board will have been through this
again once or twice so we would look at I think more of an Allheart search process where you don't need everything that we might do in a full search because it's recent enough so our goal would not be to keep charging people for a full search when you don't need it what would the cost difference be I
don't know yet I can't tell you but I there are some things I don't think You' necess necessarily need again such as um interview training um such as um survey stakeholder report again because if you do have a Morris Leatherman survey
perhaps you could weave that into the next search in a year and a half or two years or whenever so you'd have some options to look at but we typically don't do that um but I would want to do that for the district so that you're not feeling like we're just going to go through the same thing exact same thing pay the exact same thing we want to make
sure that we're meeting the needs and being real conscious of cost for you too so let me ask it another way so if uh we um if Peter is here for just this contract and then we go ahead with the
search we go ahead with the search now um and it doesn't cost us anything that fulfills your that fulfills both parties obligations yours and ours if you hire someone yes if we what if we don't hire someone then uh we
would continue to do it at no cost because that would mean one year for Peter one year for another interum one year for the next I mean we would keep doing it it's the one year of stability is we just got to stick on these one year deals and never have to pay them that's exactly we just keep hiring them for a year time no that's I want to I
want to be clear on that I appreciate that thank you very much clear on that Y and and one thing I should mention um as far as interim superintendence we have superintend attendants they'll go in with the intention of helping out for one year and they do and it goes well or there is
something on the horizon that they want to see through because it's a pretty big lift and they want to make sure that they can have a healthy district for the next superintendent to inherit I know of interim superintendents that are in their fifth year of a one-year contract I have somebody in their eighth year
that it's called superintendent but it's one year at a time because they're later in their career they don't want a commitment three years out so interim superintendents are all individuals and have individual circumstances and so um
there's some very successful long-term superintendents that are doing it one year at a time and every year in the fall they tell their board whether they're going to stay the next year or not so far they're staying and it's working every District's different so
so so really um I mean the next question for me would be to go to Peter and Peter what are you willing to do in order to um for me just me now to have it in my mind where we are both
with msba and with Peter correct okay thank you I'm not asking that yet but I [Laughter] miss any other questions for Barb specifically about what she's talked
about thus far why is it so critical to continue the term interim superintendent with Peter right now if he stay between now and the end of the year yeah why can't we get rid of the term inuring I'm just asking the
question yeah that's you're talking about if we elected to yeah keep them I'm just saying I'm just asking the question I mean why was the interim in the first place a better way to ask question thank you yeah I think that's a signal to candidates that it's a short short-term
stop Gap measure y so candidates know and this is one thing that if there is an interim superintendent candidates need to know whether they're interested in the job or not because it gets back to if word gets out that the interim superintendent's going to apply again
the pool gets real small real fast and so there are interim superintendents that very clearly say this is my intention I am out I'm not interested in and then that does help the pool become larger if they hedge their bets the pool like you aren't going to get the number
so no there's no requirement that you call it interim superintendent it's just a signal I think to candidates that it's a short-term position but I mean you know You' said there you have an example where some some person is up eight times yeah they're no longer called in room yeah after the first year they go to the
term superintendent but they only want a one-year contract at a time so it's a superintendent with a one-year contract basically year to year to year to year okay it's unusual but I know a couple instances where it's working so so the state of
Minnesota you taught me this you can to have one two or threee contracts like John you mentioned four it's not available one two or three is a is that right less than three it could be 18 months if you want really less than three years or three years at the most
something like that I've always thought about that like you know and you're a representative every two years you have to try to get your job back Sheriff you know it's like quite a quite a deal actually think if you're the sheriff every four years you got to do this all over again that would be I
don't know I could I couldn't do it got to do it with school board every four years yeah well this isn't like your career it is this is more important the poor Sheriff there are districts that um
interview potential superintendent candidates on their own is that right correct mhm like you mean don't even do a search they do a search they just manage it themselves they just manage yeah we could do that I mean we could have done
that we decided not to well especially our first time F yeah like recruiting and where to advertise and all yeah well I mean that would in my mind would come into play If Peter stays through you know the extra year we
fulfill the contract with msba we pay them for the search that we started last year then at that point in June of 20 five6 26 now we're starting a new search which is a new contract so that's the point
where in theory let's say you know candidates have come out of the woodwork or whatever we have somebody in mind or we do some kind of posting on our own yeah in theory you could do that and possibly avoid the cost of a second search in two and a half years can you remind me what the cost is
that 19000 I thought it was 199 in a district that size I was thinking it was to I was thinking yeah and last year I think there were 22 districts that did their own search I mean because you are not required to hire a search firm to assist you at all uh and those districts
call us for help when they have questions about open meeting law and things like that so we're still your Association whether we're also your search firm or not so if you did do your own search and you had a strong internal team from an HR perspective and you already have a sense of how you want to ask questions and someone here could
coordinate interviews you do not need to hire a search firm again and it it works often because there's an internal candidate so it's more of an internal promotion um but there are there are districts that do the whole shebang I mean you post for free on msba site masay site you can put it on Ed poost
you don't have to have a firm guiding you every step of the way that said I'll say what somebody with exactly four weeks left in his school board career has the opportunity to say which is I would believe that would be stupid Grand when you're hiring a CEO for $110 million budget school district is a drop
in the bucket I would not I would not do that that's what we decided when H right but that's just me talking and you're GNA get a little bit more of that today probably just so you know all right thanks other questions for Barb for where we're at so far
because I think next what I'd like to do I don't want to put you on the spot but if you want to add any more color why haven't you well you wanted to be no I'm teasing yeah um you know some color and then I I have a couple of questions too um but you know anything based on Barb's commentary
or based on honestly I mean here's what I was going to ask is based on your experience in iatana you were on a one year one year and then a three year right so you have some experience with kind of going through this same exact process maybe talk about that a little bit and I was thinking about that when
Barb was talking is that um it was because of I knew a specific speically what I my job of the next year was going to be I knew specifically um we had to pass a
Lev referendum we had to do that otherwise um the cut of 1.5 million was going to become three and um I had the support of the board to believe that I could accomplish what
they wanted me to do and I had the support of my administrative team and most of the the employees they said we know he's going to do this um but it was a really weird thing again because it was a oneye deal you know they said
would you stay one more year and as we were working toward going for the levy um I think it became obvious to the board and the administrative team that for all the work that's going into this why would we
let him go and that's when the board chair sat down with me and said okay we know we just won a really important election we want you to stay for three more years and I said what do you want me to stay for three more years for we need to have a
bond referendum and we know you can get that through and so I thought that's a wonderful challenge that um I've already been through and I thought I can do three more but it had to be under my terms and because we had just gone through a budget reduction and
everything and the money from the referendum was a year away um I had to set some criteria about I was going to take a three-year freeze because I didn't want the public to think well now he's going to rake in the coals so to speak and and I also told my
administrative team you're going to take a three-year freeze also if I say this is the rule because we were hemorrhaging and um we had also promised after the election it was a 10year referendum and we
promised the community we will not overspend during the 10 years of that length of of a referendum and I said if we do the first year if I'm here you should fire me because we made that promise and um even though I
left three years after the vote they never went over the they never spent more than they brought in which was reason why we got the rep the bond rep random because we were holding and showing that we could control our spending even though it was tough we did
that um but it also got to a point where after we passed the bonding referendum I knew somebody else can do this now um I did two things that they wanted me to do that we knew we could do and there was 100% support that that's going to happen if there had been any weakness in the
whole thing I said nope I'm not going to be your sacrificial lamb so it it was just timing I mean um otana had gone through several defeated referendums whether it was Levy or Bond um they needed fresh blood and they
needed a different voice and I just happened to be in the right time at the right place plus I really knew the community being there for 10 years before but it still was down the confidence of myself with the board and my confidence myself with my
administrative team if there hadn't been that I I would I said nope we're done because I was already um retired once or twice whatever it was and I didn't need and but I felt that um there was that
bond that was going to be successful and we were going to go to the wall to get a a yes vote now if there isn't going to be that I'm out I'm just telling you straight up if you're not going to go to the wall for whatever the vote's going to be
you're wasting my time you're wasting your time and you're wasting the community's time explain that please if you're going to have me stay and you know we should go for a vote you better hang you better be 100% in tow and you better be ready to go to the wall to
make sure that it passes you're talking about the referendum yeah yeah Levy referendum okay let me ask you differ so are you saying that all six members need to be on board with going forward with the referendum positively absolutely
okay for you to stay one more year no oh that's not what I'm saying okay then I but if you if you tell me we want you to stay because we want you to get us a yes vote okay six0 if there's 51 we found
out you lose 35% of the vote you go four or two you probably down to 45 50% of the vote makes sense because the public the public has to believe you know what's at stake if they don't you're wasting everybody's time and I'm not
going to I appreciate the recognition I appreciate the support I don't want to waste my time uh going to the wall if it's going to be me fighting and dragging six board members along as opposed to you leading um that's one
thing but it was a very very unique situation and I agree 100% with what Barb said um you have to think about your long-term plan which really is only about three to five years by the way
um if you keep rolling along with one turn interims whatever you want to call them I don't care she's right you're going to scare off someone who wants to be committed longer than that I get the idea but I'm going to tell you this and I was thinking about it as she was talking if you're thinking of saving
money on a search to look good for some reason you shouldn't even be on the board I mean 19,000 out of 110 million you're you're you're not doing a very good job of what your roles are
supposed to be I don't know did I answer your question and I have a question you mentioned that one of the reasons you want to stay is your administrative team is that one of the reasons you've considered staying I
really like who I'm working with is that part of the deal here I mean you talking about oton but it's the same thing I'm talking here yeah if I stay it's because of those people sitting back there because we have a I think we have a real clear understanding of what our
roles are and what we're supposed to do and how we're going to get it done but isn't it also these people sitting here oh absolutely okay I just wanted to point that out as well yeah absolutely and I've been fortunate I've worked with really really good school
boards and I don't know how many superintend can say that to be honest with you because you guys come and go quickly or can s do you guys yeah I know put point fingers over it I think the I think the average uh I think the average
length of a superintendent's term in one site is two years is that correct two years two years W either they're told to leave or they want to leave it's like being a football coach kind of like being a football coach you
you get high to get fired and you don't know what you're going to get afterwards unless you got a really good assistant coach so now I'll ask the question that I did alluded to early Peter yes what are you willing to
do what am I willing to do I will stay one more year and get you a yes vote if we're going to go for a vote if you want me to stay and get more things cleaned up up I can do that but you're taking a I I'll be quiet no go
ahead take you're taking a risk if you don't go for the vote because you're going to be cutting a lot and the question is do you have enough thick skin to go through all that let me ask go ahead let me ask you differently are you willing to go three
years and get a yes vote no okay that's what I want to know no I don't think that's fair to your to the district considering you know my experience and my age I want to know what you're saying yeah no but you're willing to stay and and
move forward with the referendum and you feel we can get we can you feel we can get a yes vote with this support and that support and our community support yes with all of this support here great because it's so I have a question yeah so if the Leatherman survey comes
back and it's emphatically hell no then what but then we don't do it okay I just want to make sure I mean it's not Levy or bust it's review the data and make an informed intelligent choice on the direction to go based on what the community tells us they would do I mean you don't go against that the community
says don't even talk to us about it well no but there's there are schools of thought out there where they say you should go take one to fail because it h it has a power in it in in and of itself like you know I don't believe in that I don't either but I just I know failur is why would you do it if you think
you're going to fail I you're going to burn a lot of people's energy that's right to fail and it's not going to be free it's going to cost money to do it refun oh yeah yeah so I mean it's like money
time you should at least think you have a chance to win I would think I don't know I've never been through this before but well you guys know your community better than anybody else you know you've all been here for quite some time
what You' seen of the community so far you think that we could get a yes vote sure and you know how to do it I believe I do not by all myself though no yep I understand is part of the process informing the community of what some of
these cuts are going to be MH okay you have to assuming I'm assuming all the cards go on the table okay don't want to put you on the spot but if you have any questions I know it's weird to be sitting where you're sitting I just want to make sure you're comfortable to jump in thanks just listening thanks
okay I wish we could collectively um support the referendum if Leatherman shows that our community is ready for it
but we probably can't really commit to that I mean would you commit to going through with the referendum if Leatherman shows that yes a community is ready for something well here's what I think about that I think that if we all
got the Leatherman report and we had to put a number on it so let's go it's 0% chance of passes or 100% chance of passes and we all did the middle I think you'd have six different answers yeah so I think it's 30% you think it's 80% Sarah thinks it's 60%
Randy thinks it's 40% John thinks it's 50% you know and Kevin says it's 100% so who's right so it's got to be pretty I mean I think it's got to be pretty overwhelming data I mean Peter you've
seen these before I mean is is it that obvious when you get the data back I mean you know this whole Leatherman thing I'm kind of really interested in a lot of other things out of that out of that report than it's going to come out of that Levy um but I mean is it going to come back like glaring that oh Jesus
is a slam dunk this is no problem or is it I mean or is it like there's no way this is ever going to work or how's how look when it comes I think it's a slam dunk if it's no from the community they'll tell you in the in the survey they gather their
data they can tell you for sure you don't have a chance you know so we'll know pretty easily usually um Morrison Leatherman if you can get to 55% yes then you have well they're going
to give us percentages like that oh yeah oh that's well based on the way they do the survey like they they they hunt for the threshold right right so they start with if it meant this much of an increase on your property taxes would you do it no how about this much right no how and they even conf find the
threshold the dollar threshold then there's a plus minus of what they believe in from the survey and they tell you so let's say you you you come up with 56% you can pass but it's a plus minus three now that cuts that margin down to
53 you have to work that much harder to get back to 56 yeah had the margin of error just like yeah but even with that both those firms that interviewed with us to to provide the data the other company in Wisconsin
that we talked to are Plus 94% on their success ratio if you follow their guidelines so if they come back and say we you know we're saying at this dollar amount it's it's it's got this chance of passing their right 95% of the time unless you change it well or you do like
a districts like the other guy was saying the district ignores them and well if you're saying we can get $15 well let's try for 20 and then they they go down in flame so they don't count those against their score if you follow because the district ignored their
guidance there 94% those guys s not sah excuse me Michelle and I attended the Minnesota rural Education Association I don't remember it was last week in the weekend be could have been last week and I wasn't here so it was a weekend before um and um one of the one
of the breakouts that I went to was about referendum passage and Leatherman I told the finance committee the same thing I want the rest of the board members to hear this is Leatherman was spoke a very highly very very highly as respected uh survey agency um along with
Todd r who I understand did some work here as well and um their success rate is significant and um they will give us a data that we need for sure and I I just wanted to let the board know that that you know that that's the reputation
that they have um I also appreciate your honesty and your and everything that you've said and everything that you've done here I want to ask my fellow board members including our new board member um cuz there's been discussion about
um the referendum amongst us board members of yes or no and it hasn't been all yes it has not been all yes and even during the campaign it wasn't all yes and I just heard the superintendent say I don't call interim or whatever you
want I heard superintendent Grant say it's got to be all yes we've got all be back we've all got to be going forward we all got to be positive on it so I'd like to hear from my board members and I'm all forward I'm all forward I'll be the the first one to say that no
questions about it I've been saying it for a number of a number of years we need to get a referendum pass here I want to know from my fellow board members are you all in well because we're wasting his time you're wasting my time you're wasting our time right now
why we don't know what the data is if it's got a 15% chance of passing then no I'm not even close to it if it's 85% of the public says so I guess they elected me I guess I better do what the public wants so how am I supposed to answer that no I have you already know where I sit on this referendum and I don't know
how Peter's employment his contract his appointment whatever we call this has anything to do with that at this point it has everything to do with it he just said that no he did not no he didn't oh I said if I stay and you and you're going to
and you go for a referendum you have to be six all which I agree with if we end up going for the referendum his deal is there's no reason to waste our time if we're not all on board until we get the data I don't know no no that's where I'm going and that's where I was going John kind of got there ahead of me and I wish
I had that much energy after surgery like you do geez but I've got nothing to lose I mean no I I I no that's a compliment I swear to God it is but I think In fairness to Peter's situation that's the whole point the whole point is the data comes back if the data is
supports X threshold and you know 55% plus that's the question the question is if Peter recommends we go forward based on his experience or you go forward I should say the six of you you know that's where you've got to be all in but
the data has to be there to support it so if the data comes in and supports it that's the commitment I think Peter is asking for I'm putting words in your mouth I'll let you talk for yourself but to say if the data comes back and says this we can't have somebody drilling holes in the back of the boat or it's dead before it gets out of the I want to I want to just clarify something though
for you because I think we're getting off some of the critical pieces here if Morrison and Leatherman intend to have their data back by March let's say and it's a
no you still want me to stay otherwise you're bu the eightball on a search again like you did before and I think your question today should be do you want to go for the search regardless of a yes or no on the Leatherman more the survey or do you
want me to stay first that's the only thing that matters right now because if you wait until you get the data and then you go well so no why don't we go for a new superintendent now well now you're behind where you were before a late search you get behind the ball and
you're fighting Upstream against the salmon in the Stream you know coming after you the holes because everybody else is out ahead of you by a couple months you you got to be you can't worry about my personal feelings because I'll go wherever you tell me to go so to
speak but it's important that you think about about what is it more important for the district not what's important for Peter Grant because if I go I go if I stay I stay but you got to think about if you're gonna hang around you're gonna
have to wait a while for the data because I don't know how quickly they'll do their thing but they were thinking I think late February early March because that gives you time to explore if it's a yes support let's say you've got from the end of that time until really about
early June to kind of commit yourself to what's it going to be because you're going to have to start hitting the road August 1st if not sooner on talking to the public and you don't want to make a late decision on a referendum vote because then it just it's a snowball
effect of you can't keep up with what you have to do so the vote doesn't matter right now it's do you want to get in on a search before so you can get ahead of the game so to speak because I think there's two openings right now I I saw two postings
anyway something like that seven so and there's your battle you going to be ahead of the seven or you going to be behind 15 I don't know I mean Barb says there's 30 a year 20 20
going January 10 going December we're not dead yet this time imp perfect world sequence of events would time out differently right that's it's not ideal because the Leatherman stuff we won't have it until after we wish we had it I don't know why
that has a lot to do with this but maybe it does I mean it obviously does for you John yeah absolutely yeah I don't know what one has to do with the other so then let's look at it a different way let's look at it if you if the leather M data comes back good and we decide we're not going to have Peter and so then we're going to start a new
superintendent in July 1 and he says we should be on the road by August 1st promoting it so do you you feel like we're going to have this new person come in here and they're going to be very qualified to go do that because aren't they going to have to get their feet under them first and kind of get to know their staff and I mean I would think
it's a year setback personally I my things with Peter are first of all I like his style you guys probably know that um but I like the consistency and you know I've heard that the directors like working with them and
that there's a little quicker decision- making and stuff like that and if we really were going to go for a referendum I think it'd be a kick in the pants to start with another new superintendent and I don't think that's any of our fault you know um let's look at
Kevin three people you know three different ones in four years so it's not like it's all us and we could hire somebody so it's my fault is that what you're saying no I'm just saying that this isn't it's unusual it's like Peter said it's 1.7 years two two years so we can hire somebody and they could say you know what this isn't for me and I don't
like it up here and we came from southern Minnesota and you know whatever we're going back where our family is and I'm sorry but I'm leaving and we could be right in the middle trying to get this thing done and that's actually happened at this District not all that long ago well I'm just saying that I like the
consistency and unless something was wrong or you know Peter definitely wanted to quit I just think it and maybe I'm just being lazy because it's easier but it seems to me like business this size I mean what
is this big of an employer in cro is I don't I don't know is the hospital this big I I I don't know I mean there was 1,200 employees I believe so it would I would just like to think that it would take probably four five six months just to get your feet under you to get around all the buildings meet all the
people start to get a feel for where the weak points are the strong points and the things you're going to start to try to work on and I would think if we hire somebody new it's going to be the same thing we're right back where we are now in they'd be 6 months in you know isn't that what is this your sixth month July
August you get five months under your belt so it takes a little while just to you know get on your feet I think well but and I don't disagree with you DJ but this would really rely on the six of you you better do your job and your homework
when you hire don't hire a rookie you know you got to hire somebody who's got a really good solid leadership background and and um you really have to work with Barb and do your homework it's hard it's a it's a weird it's a weird
dynamic like when we did this last deal I've never been around anything so strange I've hired hundreds and hundreds and hundreds maybe thousands of people in my life but I can't even ask a question you know I've never seen anything like this where all these questions are all picked out ahead I think it's a broken kind of a government
standards type of situation and this time I think I'm going to ask that we get a little 15minute back and fourth questioning you know I mean we did it this last time what to make it fair is that why we were doing it was it fair is that remember how we had to pick the questions so everybody got the same
exact questions we had our six questions or five questions whatever they were well that's really odd because if you answer the first one this way my next question is going to be different than if you answered it the other way and I just thought it was really strange like you never really got to make the good decisions like you're talking about Peter because I never got to ask those
questions I mean I could ask them of other school board members from other towns you know some of that stuff we were calling around on I think Sarah you and I were doing it John you did it on for everybody too um you know other than that how do you get this good background
on these people when you're trying to hire them so I don't disagree with you DJ and actually I remember having my own personal list of questions asking yeah we couldn't do it bever no I did it and and Barb you were the one that told me I like how you handled those questions
your your own indiv idual questions and we have rethought our way of I you remember that I don't know if you remember that dialogue or not I do you're like a journalist you're like I have a follow-up question I have a followup question yeah so I was able and I agree with you I think we should be
able to do that I think so so just a question when you were here a year ago and you got down to your final two did you guys go visit this communities anybody go visit the community go visit the school district we were rapid firing we were like
we were like picking out our final two on Tuesday and making a decision on Friday cuz I when I went from PL view to cast Manville three board members came to cassen in Manville and spent half a day
asking questions where to who about me I know but of the staff bu bus people they didn't talk to any school Personnel they talked to the town yeah oh they didn't talk to school for they didn't talk to the to because during the process
everybody was available to be part of the interview but then theor like I said they they came in and infiltrated the tone that's what I did on the people that I was calling they talked to they talk to restur they talked to
the grocery store they talked to the chamber um because they wanted to find out if what I was saying was true number one but more importantly was there a feeling that this this person was really good or not and then when um when I
became super oana they went to Cass and Manville and said okay we know him but we don't know him and they went and talked to the business and said because that's really where you get you know the business people hear everything I mean they have eyes and ears on the concrete
so to speak and um I would highly recommend you go on the search you get down to what ever your candidate numbers are you better go infiltrate that town and ask questions because otherwise you just know what you know on paper and talking to the person but what does the
town think of that person you know what is the business Community what what are the farmers they come from World Minnesota what the hell talk to some Farmers site visits were an option we talked about doing if you remember we have pages about site visits in our training manuals so it happens less
frequently in the last five years I haven't had a single board do person site visits because everything is so much faster than it used to be and everything's gone online in terms of research and phone calls are being done but it's always an option no you could do whatever you'd like because keep going back to this is your search as
long as it's legal you can do what you need to do for bring your public schools and sight visits is always an option always road trips never hurt unless the person's did that but I did it on your phone I didn't go that's true on you and the other candidates I did it on you any
other candidates so we had the one candidate that was from your old neck of the woods where you were able to do a lot of due diligence y yeah last year we had a candidate placed who's working in China and so doing a site visit to China would have been tough and sometimes we have finalists from Nebraska California Florida so it it un levels the plane
field if you're doing it for some people who are local and others that are further away which is just one consideration so we we just have to fly around there you go I vot we send Randy to China Stephanie's been there whole to go there like every six months Kevin you could live there for six
months and just give us a report Taiwan I you don't you won't see me in China proper take the guy out well I came in today thinking that um I wanted to move forward with the search because I think delaying it is bad for the district that's that's what
I that's what I came in here thinking delaying it is bad for the district but what is more important right now is leadership or dollars but for me I mean that's my thoughts right now leadership or dollars and
they're both important there's no question about it when I hear you talk about what you can do for for us for a referendum that's Swain me that is sway me and let me finish and um I think that
becomes more important to me um but it takes all of us to be there just like you said um and the Leatherman you're right the the the community survey is critical and
when and when that comes back that will tell all of us and all of them and you know where we should go in my opinion um I'm now feeling that we should I'm I'm swayed the other way
right now I'm about a 180 right now um because of what you said Peter and um you and I have had some differences yeah and I respect that very much so and appreciate it very much so um I think passing a referendum becomes
the most important thing that we need to do and if we do it I think we'll find a leader okay having said that um I just wanted to throw that out the other deal is and I think you're right
is you know this six old board thing that you're that everybody's concerned about today apparently um that's kind of Peter's job you know he just swayed you so if I was like the stick in the mud on the
referendum who says Peter can't call me up and have a little meeting and I walk out of the meeting going you know what after hearing that maybe I do think we should have a referendum it's the same deal and I think that's kind of how things go we just got to wait and get these survey numbers and we're kind of getting the card ahead of the horse do you have a cell number no I'm yes I do
he calls me back yeah well I think yeah I mean my thought I mean there's two separate issues here and and we're talking about a a levy referendum and for me I agree that's
down the road uh I want uh I want to keep Peter my personal opinion he can lead us through the if we get good numbers back from letherman uh
Etc and if not I still um like what you're doing Etc now and you said you would fulfill that one extra year regardless so I'm I'm in the camp where
I'm going to be uh leaning towards U asking Peter to stay that extra year which he has agreed to and we'll deal with a uh Levy and referendum information at a at a later date very important yes but
if we don't have good leadership um and you even said it John if we don't we don't have good leadership uh the money's not going to follow ex the data that's not exactly what I said I said I think Peter has the
best opportunity of having us if the survey shows that it's a possibility to get the to get the referendum passed rather than a new leader that's my point is that he has the best opportunity to get in my opinion that's just my opinion one out of six um so to me the
referendum becomes more important than the leadership at this point they're both important but that at that point um there was something else I was going to say but no I can't remember so it's it's a diff it's different than what you're saying I'm not right to me the be
important thing is right now leadership and we'll deal with all of the Fallout with the with the survey and all this other stuff at a later date well let me pin you down on that a little though you're talking about when we get it yeah right who I'm talking to you you're
saying at a later date like 2027 are you talking about when we get the information you know when we sit down and talk about okay how do we want to craft this referendum what what I mean we're we I'm assuming we have to tell the public what we're start with survey correct but I mean the survey is
so let's just wor about the survey at this point so we're going to worry about first we're going to get the survey that's step one yeah we're already into step three or four or five it's like we got to start with one but but don't we have to craft the survey in a way we do have to do a little work on
the survey I guess I mean we have a little bit of input with them when they craft us the whole point is we don't craft the survey because we bias it the whole point is they do it because they're experts at it and they're going to come back and give us information okay but don't we need to know what we're going to be how much the
going to be for I me that's why they that's what the survey does it comes back with those those amounts and what we're going to spend the money on but don't we don't we give people when they're doing their survey don't they explain what the levy or referendum's for well more importantly Randy is they
first explain find out if there's a threshold of increase in your own personal taxes or whatever it's going to be the second part of that though is if it falls within that would you vote Yes they don't care what you're going to spend it on because that's not their
business so to speak it's the operations of the board to determine that but what they will care about is what could be eliminated but you won't know that until you make a decision of are we going to go for a levy or not because if because when you start talking to the public you
tell them we're going to ask you for whatever 3 million a year if we don't get 3 million a year this is what we're going to reduce this class sizes are going to go up opportunities for kids are going to go down we're going to have to cut staff we're going to have to cut Personnel we're going to shrink our
delivery package to fit within the confines of our budget and we have to do that no matter what it's going to be once that becomes part of your campaign people start to make a decision then they really don't make it unless
you're asking exorbitant amount on their taxes they really want to know more about what am I losing if I don't vote Yes okay that's really what their focus is going to be if I vote Yes I know we're keeping but if I vote no I know what's
going and then but the hard part will be then if it's a no vote you have to do what you said you're going to do otherwise you'll never get a yes vote for a while so let me I'm going to tack on to a little bit of what you said um just to it's I'm not really trying to correct you I just want to carve a slightly
different path you were talking about leadership versus dollars and what I would is they're not mutually exclusive from where I said in the sense that let's say the Leatherman data comes back and it's hell no I actually think Peter's leadership in that is just as
critical for taking all the bullets for all that stuff that we now we have to we have to cleave forward maybe close a building maybe you know um realign how our fifth graders go all of those different things and to Barb's earlier opening Point having Peter take all that flak makes it a hell of a lot easier for
a new soup to come in a year later not having to deal with all of that yep good point yeah absolutely so the question today then becomes you know do we do we extend do we keep Peter or do we go ahead with a
search that's it yeah that's what we're that's the question on the table for today the but this dialogue all leads to that this is outstanding dialogue so Barb to you um how do I word this so let's say that
we're going to extend Peter's contract um and Peter's going to lead the referendum charge along with all of us and um for a yes referendum um but the Leatherman comes back and says no
and now we're still we still have a contract with Peter are we done with you then yes yes that's what I thought so that's what I need to reconcile I need to reconcile I mean it helps to know that the average life expectancy of a
superintendent is 2 2 years but or whatever we have an job okay so we that helps me to know that but we started this process and approved 20 grand to hire a
superintendent and we're not there yeah that's the part I have to reconcile is that we have to approve that financing all over again um because we and Peter's not interim we I can wrap my
head around the fact that he's not interim for another year the rest of this year in another year but I I'm just struggling a little bit does anybody have any I don't have a problem with that honestly because I feel like we've paid this price tag to get for two years
which might be the lifespan anyone else okay so I I feel good about that and I feel like it's really nominal um compared to what you're asking for out in the market okay yeah I mean if if it
helps it's no different than what we did the last two soup Cycles we hired a different company we we hired I can't I can't even say their name I have PTSD but um you know we paid whatever we paid them for Heidi to stay two years yeah
okay MH so first thing I told bar remember and you tell me well you have to understand that if Peter stays in the year you're that's our contract is over and I said well we hired you to find us a superintendent and I guess you did they found as Peter yeah yeah we weren't
finding Peter without indirectly you're correct well I mean Peter Peter came to us in July through msba right so I mean so yeah oh okay I reach out to no no he didn't he didn't come like wander up and knock on the door here at Washington he called
Barb and then I I I called Peter Peter and I chatted a few times and I said I've got about six months left in my career there were no even even there was maybe one candidate that John knew and
he basically directed that individual to come through Barb so everybody that I talked to when I was screening um came through Barb the interim search was a little different because it was done more quickly and behind the scenes and I spoke to 22 people about that job okay and then I referred some to Kevin that I
thought aligned really well with what you were looking for their ability their interest their capabilities and I think you spoke with several at that point but it was a lot of work to find inter rooms so that wasn't an easy that helpy I have zero concern that we've gotten our money's worth yeah right
right okay and then some yeah one thing that I want to remind everybody that I think is important to is this is an attractive job regardless of whether you do it now or you do it in two years or whenever it's an attractive district with a lot going for it when candidates
call and ask me about jobs it seems like the healthiest pools the largest pools are looking for you know I've always told you since the beginning location salary and reputation are what Spurs people to want to work in a district but if you take a deeper dive into that you
kind of peel back another layer the things that will really matter I think to candidates for brainer Public Schools if you conduct another search now or in a year or two um would be Financial stability or at least a financial plan whether there's a levy whether there isn't whether it passes whe there needs
to be a financial plan um no looming crisis and again that some of the baggage that an interim can take with them or a superintendent for two years takes with them and finally a high functioning board three very attractive points and I think you are almost there right now you've got the financial
stability piece that needs to be sorted through but I think you'll have a healthier pool in a year or two than you may this year because it's still hanging out there as you'll inherit that you know someone in two years would not inherit that there'd be a plan in place and still a very high functioning board
it's my belief so I think you're positioned really well regardless of what you decide because this is a great District great opportunity you off Sarah when you were saying something I'm sorry were you going to add something and I interrupted you I I was just going to say you know
the the one thing I would wish for for the district is the stability and the accountability and to eliminate some of those unknowns and just as we've been talking here today I feel like there's just as much risk is if not more in
going out for a search right now and and if you're willing to offer stability and that accountability I think we're well positioned with that what do you want to do make a motion I also appreciate the way that you respond
with enthusiasm and hope and faith and belief um and commitment thank you I you know that that that says a lot to me personally about that's a competitive part of me unfortun yeah for
sure yeah the only other thing I would say I think we we moving as a group you know into a consensus which feels good is you know I think of it like um just like with the react and the literacy stuff that we're trying to do and the Strategic plans thing that we were trying to do right it was very
frustrating for me during the election that statistics were cherry-picked to make this board as a whole but specifically the three of us that were in play look a certain way based on metrics that we've already taken substantial steps to address
but that those steps take a substantial amount of time to be fruit right so it's like okay you don't you you don't just put new reading curriculum in and suddenly you test your third graders four weeks later and their scores are off the charts it doesn't work like that so it's the same thing with what we're
trying to do here and I think the idea to keep that continuity to get through those speed bumps because remember even if you get a yes vote in November of 25 you don't get the money till 26 right so there's still hard decisions regardless of the levy they're a little less hard because
you could gamble if you if the levy feels certain you could go You could argue to draw down on the fund Reserve you know there's there's other levers that could be pulled potentially kind of like what the state does sometimes yeah but not quite that way I don't want DJ to have a stroke but sorry but I mean there are there are
variables in play but the idea that you have a lead the leadership continuity through that that and unfortunately that all you know that all comes due in June like we we really don't know what the budget landscape looks like at this point we know it's bad we don't know how
bad I think if you ask everybody you'll get different answers from everybody right so the idea of having that and and to Barb's point that no matter what happens then with the levy because that work's already been done and those Communications have already been been put out there you know the the chance of
bringing in a dynamic leader that can take it to the next level is are even better agree that's kind of where I fall so with that said I would say um um my vote is still a vote but incoming director ederman you know very
interested in your thoughts um again hate to put you on the spot but I know you're not voting today but in a way you are because you are going to be on this board tackling all of these things that we just talked about and I will not be so your voice is is at least if not way more important
than mine is well I would like you to stay for another year it's going to be a big learning curve for me starting out and that's going to be even hug um bigger if I have to sit down and help the board
find another superintendent so like you to State thank you um I think Michelle you're the only one that hasn't really been declarative in a statement so far oh I I'm I know what I want do you want me to yeah I'm I'm
supportive of this decision I needed this this discussion though to get me where I'm I'm going and no I'm supportive of keeping Peter now nobody called Shelly so probably should have validated a couple things before this meeting do you want me to call her real
quick he may not have that long of a life two your lifespan you shrunk it by half a year um I will tell you that um yes we have talked and
um she appreciates the support I'm getting one she doesn't appreciate the time apart which you know is okay um we both understand that but um she does have faith in
man okay and then keeping you in the hot seat just a little bit for a minute sure now you've heard the whole dialogue you you sent the email that kind of you know launched a thousand ships here um any any other thoughts based on what you've heard from the seven of
us um well I do appreciate your support and your confidence in me um but my entire educational career has never been it just one person it it it takes a team and I will tell you this um if I didn't
like this board um I would even thought about it number one number two Barb is absolutely correct this is a really good District um we have to start changeing the vernacular of what we say and what we don't say um because there's a so many
positive things here if it wasn't that way I'd be one and done for sure um but it I I I do have to tell you that the group of people at the end of the room make a difference um they're all very very talented they're all very
supportive um the directors um and you know the person really running the district behind us um makes a difference and if it wasn't for that I wouldn't stay I wouldn't even think about it but I did think I told
you I maybe it was in October I had mentioned something about I'm starting to get embedded and I'm feeling committed further than just the interim that's a really dangerous sign for me because then I don't give up I you know and that's what happened at Allana it didn't take very long and I said you
know I I I got things I need to help you with and I can do it and um whether that there's a November election for a bond or not we have a lot of other things we got to address and I'm not afraid to do that and some of it's going to be
uncomfortable but that's the only way you get going forward do some of the uncomfortable stuff because in the end everybody's going to come out ahead so well and in the end for me if I was still sitting in this chair in like
February or March I mean to me having seen Peter's resilience and toughness instead of interviewing somebody to try to find out if they have that for what's coming next that that's kind of the Difference Maker for me I mean known quantity versus a crapshoot it's just the same reason that why I
voted the way I did on the last finalist that we had before we went to the interim I couldn't I couldn't find a path forward for those tough decisions that like I I couldn't see enough to make me confident that that that candidate was going to carry that wall that was how it landed so in this case I think it's the opposite I feel like you
know and even better it's it's it's like going from you know for you Sports people it's like going from you know Bill Walsh to George Seer when when he hangs up his he hangs up his clipboard you have the chance to hire a prot or or somebody that comes in behind them that they can take everything he's doing and
ramp it up another notch and then we all get I guess you know dinner with Peter at the classic every well I make a motion I extend Peter what how's this motion supposed to go Peter for a year
and dro the interim term is that how it works mhm that right and cease the search and and yeah second okay so um discussion we have a motion from director Dinger with second from director Ward any further
discussion uh couple outstanding items one um you and I talked about this and I didn't get a chance to close the loop on it we need to double check on your provisional licensing have you done any of that leg work yet as long as I'm putting um CEUs
together it's fine and I've been doing some of the things with the district so as I'm working toward um I probably need carries term for me but um as long as I'm making progress in those attributes that you have to have for a full
licensure it's good for two three years and then I guess this one's back to you maybe a little bit more from a contractual perspective is there a way to amend the existing contract or is this a new one-year contract that just um or is there a Best practice on that
that aware of I differ that question to either your Council or your HR folks fair enough okay so we'll do the leg work on that usually a superintendent contract is lengthier and more complicated than the interim superintendent contract sure not always so you could handle it I think any way that you would like to okay I know we
worked off of a boilerplate interim contract that msba supplied us for Peter okay any other discussion hearing no discussion um let's do a roll call vote for this
please Kevin Bo yes Michelle Breen yes DJ Dellinger yes Randy Hyman yes sis spear yes John Ward yes motion carries unanimously thank you
Barb thanks for making the time to come up thanks Barb congratulations for will I see anyone in January at the leadership conference if you do please stop by and say hi it'd be wonderful to see you again but congratulations again I have enjoyed this search thoroughly and uh look forward to seeing how things go
over the next few years let me know if I can help in the interum I don't have to be contracted due to the search to help you so call or email anytime if there's things I can continue to do to support you in your work please well there's no question that this process was so much better than two years ago when we two and a half years ago when we went
through it and that is not just msba but it's all exclusively you you're just fantastic and it's been a a real pleasure to work with you on this thank you very much okay well I guess that's that then I we have no other um items uh business items
or anything for this meeting so I guess I would I would entertain a motion to yeah that what he just said so we have a motion from director doning or a second from director spear to adjourn all those in favor please I hi we are adjourned congratulations
superintendent gr I appreciate it thank you